From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Feb 1 02:39:19 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 21:09:19 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70901311002v76d5e4b6r68a7c2b60197894d@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40901300205s1f6bd264jf1ec1977a530d7ae@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901302153v6c6b6ab1ub5624f0bc512a714@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901310535u5c221867l4a23617667143eb2@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901310650i69833a50h54bbb11e8b90c9c3@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901310714r795dc79bhce80cbc3de737624@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901310911g34d9caf3j6a60b61e458c16e9@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901311002v76d5e4b6r68a7c2b60197894d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901311309p2eb6e47fg91179d4c2f663c93@mail.gmail.com> Dear Pawan Thank you for your response. I acknowledge your understanding. Please allow me to say I do not have any hesitation in considering your view, hence, for a moment, I want to believe that RSS is a nationalist organization which intends good for all Indian citizens but in order for this view to last longer and for me to believe in the intent and purposes of RSS, I need to be reasonably satisfied. Now for all that I have read of the RSS and about the RSS and from the RSS's literature I am not reasonably satisfied at all, about either the intention and the objective of RSS, on the contrary I feel disconcerted. The reason being I feel that in its enthusiasm to embrace the nation and embrace all those things which it considers as nationalistic; the ideology of RSS filters out people like me, not because of what I am but because of who I am. RSS claims-'the political field too needs to be cleansed and reformed, based on Hindu values and ethos', had this sentiment been articulated as, 'in the political field all Hindu values and ethos needs to be cleansed and reformed' I would not have had any objection to the RSS at all, because in that case, they would have represented values and ethos of what they interpret as Hinduism. But by saying 'the political field', the RSS means the entire political spectrum of India. 'the political field' in so far as India is concerned, contain a range of ideas, and ideologies which represent aspirations of a lot of people. In this regard by claiming to 'reform and cleanse' 'the political field' of India, the RSS sets itself an ugly task by which it makes all those thoughts which are at variance with the RSS's interpretation of 'Hinduism' as undesirable hence needing 'reforms' and dirty hence need to be 'cleansed'. I find this form of thinking divisive because it pits all those people who are broadly identified as Hindus against those who are not. I find this sort of thinking anti-national because it goes against the grain of fundamental logic of Indian Constitution which allows for diversity of religious beliefs and its propagation. (You may find the RSS quote used above by following this url- http://www.rss.org:8080/New_RSS/Mission_Vision/Why_RSS.jsp) The ideals contained in the Indian constitution from the basis of my arguments. If you were to assert that you do not believe in the Indian constitution at all, then I will have no problem with you ascribing to the beliefs bestowed by an organization like the RSS. Now Pawan, don't you feel that it is unreasonable to disassociate people on the basis of who they are, primarily because people do not have any control over their birth. The argument to segregate people, to segregate citizens on the basis of their imagined religious identities is deployed by organizations like Lashker too. Hence, I find that problematic too. There was a hint of tagging in your mail, to the effect like- 'you and secularists' etc. This does not work for me at all because this demonstrates frustration as a form of response. I expect you to present a reasonable argument. I expect you to be infectious in your belief and I expect you to infect me with it. But for that you shall have to find some time and articulate your enthusiasm for RSS. I am ready to listen and read all what you have to say. Please do not get me wrong here. I welcome your comments but I find it hard to interpret through poetry and borrowed wisdom of other people. Please put it in a context and argue dil se! Regards Taha From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Feb 1 05:22:52 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 23:52:52 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-81 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901311552q2a43e2b5pcdea0fe9c767d006@mail.gmail.com> http://www.expresscomputeronline.com/20030317/newsan1.shtml SISL uses Intelligent Digital Passport for total security In an era when security is on the minds of everyone from corporates to the home user, there is an urgent need for a device that ensures maximum protection against intruders. The scientific applications centre of Siemens Information Systems (SISL) recently came out with a biometric-based smart card, which promises just this. Stanley Glancy has more details September 11 may now be a distant memory for those of us not directly touched by the carnage. But the fundamental issues it raised with respect to the foolproof nature of our security systems continues to haunt us. No system is invulnerable. But with traditional modes of access control such as passwords, PINs, keys, entry cards, codes and other handwriting-based identification methods proving to be far more susceptible to attack than previously believed, it became imperative to develop a technology that would provide higher levels of security. Over the past year, technologists across the globe went into overdrive, trying to develop the perfect security system. Biometrics has been the buzzword but the fascination with smart card technology still holds sway over the majority. Taking this trend into consideration, many companies have been trying to develop biometrics-based smart cards. Among them is Siemens Information Systems (SISL) India. The company has introduced an authentication device called the Intelligent Digital Passport (IDP), which incorporates multiple biometrics into a smart card for authentication purposes. The Market Says Dr Vinay Vaidya, associate vice president-scientific applications centre for SISL, "The total market for security in the US alone is worth $60 billion. The global market for smart cards is worth $100 billion and is expected to touch $600 billion by 2006." According to Vaidya, most of these cards will be biometrics-based. The reason for this being that biometrics is today considered the most foolproof method of access control. And with multiple biometrics available on the same card, the chances of a breach becomes all the more remote. Even research and advisory firm Gartner says that the security space is seeing high growth in India. Many countries have introduced smart card-based identity cards and others are in the process of launching them. Hong Kong, for instance, has introduced a national ID card. China, on the other hand, plans to launch close to 800 million cards by the end of March. Master Card has already introduced a PKI-based solution, called MC2 card, in Latin America. History SISL's foray into biometric-based smart cards was a natural evolution of R&D work done at the scientific application centre in Pune. Started in 1997, this centre has been conducting experiments in the areas of image processing, satellite imaging, document processing and medical imaging. Medical imaging required compression of data. Says Vaidya, "Though storage rates have gone down, code optimisation and compression is a must. With the rate of data acquired by an organisation growing at a rapid pace, the overall spending on storage has been on the rise. The only way to cut cost is to compress data as much as possible." It was at this point of time that SISL decided to conduct R&D in the biometrics-based smart card space. Vaidya's team identified three areas of biometrics that could be incorporated on the card to provide maximum security—fingerprint identification, facial recognition and voice recognition. The company had already gained considerable expertise in the area of data compression. The challenge now was in using this expertise to compress the biometrics of an individual into the 32 KB chip on the smart card. Elaborates Vaidya, "Though 64 KB cards are available abroad, 32 KB is the maximum limit offered by vendors here in India. Hence, it was even more of a challenge for us to compress heavy data into a 32 KB chip." This was when the company decided to expand its expertise in data compression into other areas. Fingerprint identification was an evolved technology and could be compressed to the required size, but the problem with most companies experimenting with compression of facial data features was that due to loss of data during the compression process the resulting image was difficult to recognise. But SISL's expertise in the JPEG2000 standards area came in handy. The company was able to compress facial features to the bare minimum without any loss of data. Incidentally, SISL is the only company in India and among 10 other companies in the world working on the JPEG2000 standard. The next step was speech recognition or what SISL calls speaker identification. According to Vaidya, SISL's system is not concerned with speech recognition but with speaker verification. SISL integrated all the various technologies along with the traditional text information and compressed it into a 10 KB file. The entire information could be verified by a system in less than 50 seconds. But many organisations found this too long a time for verification. This prompted SISL to work on further compression of the data on the chip. The company succeeded in its objective. In the current version of biometrics-based smart cards offered by SISL, the data has been compressed to less than 6 KB and can be verified in 15 seconds. The challenge the company has posed for itself is to reduce the verification time to less than eight seconds, without any loss of data or compromise on quality. Advantages Since the verification unit is not connected to the server, an organisation deploying IDP can save a lot in terms of cost of hardware and real estate space occupied by servers. Also, since the system is an independent unit, the problems associated with authentication if the server were to crash have been alleviated. The IDP can be used for myriad purposes, including access control to highly secured areas, banking applications such as ATM services, Web-enabled transactions, network access, time and attendance monitoring systems. The IDP unit has both software and hardware components consisting of a fingerprint scanner, speaker/microphone, camera and a smart card reader. In addition, it also has a computer-processing unit, and application software. If required, all the above components can be integrated in a kiosk along with a barcode reader for additional functionality. The customer is allowed to choose the number of biometrics at the time of purchase, with options to expand at a later date. IDP also has provisions for adding more biometrics as and when SISL achieves breakthroughs in new areas. Security Though it is possible to duplicate a smart card personalised by IDP, the uniqueness of each cardholder's biometrics makes it practically impossible for an unauthorised person to use the card. However, according to Vaidya, duplication of the smart card would mean that a new card is created for the original cardholder. But new data insertion for an unauthorised person will be extremely difficult. Says he, "Proper safety measures have been incorporated in the system so that data on the smart cards is difficult to decipher. The entire data is compressed, encrypted, and put in a non-conventional format, ensuring that unauthorised card creation does not take place." Challenges Vaidya visualises several challenges before the solution will gain acceptance in the country. Says he, "Awareness is still not very high in India. The technology can't work with a mass of people, verification is done on each individual separately. We also have to train people on how the system works." In the case of speaker identification, if there are long pauses between words the system can't function effectively. Or if the concerned person speaks in a different tone—too loudly or too softly—then the system won't work. In India, though the government introduced the system of a national ID card, there have been no coherent efforts to develop something on the lines of a smart card. But SISL has been working in association with EPFO (employee provident fund organisation) to provide smart cards to its more than 2.5 crore subscribers. The card, based on the US social security number system, will provide a unique identification number. It will provide the subscriber access to his account position, pension payments, claim settlements, etc. The best part about the card is that the employee can use the same card even if he were to change jobs. The company plans to spread the technology in India. Target verticals for SISL include defence and banks. But according to Vaidya, the technology is applicable wherever security of premises is valued. As part of its expansion strategy, SISL has appointed a number of channel partners for selling and providing requisite support. Says Vaidya, "We have already appointed partners in Indore, Bhopal and Kolkata and we are at the moment looking for established channel partners in the metros." The card is currently priced at Rs 250, which is still too high for many organisations. But advancement in technology should see prices coming down in the near future. Also, though there are no competing products in the Indian market, we should see more and more security companies coming out with similar products. This will definitely provide the boost required for increasing visibility. Besides, government adoption of the technology should also see this sector receiving a major boost. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Feb 1 05:25:17 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 23:55:17 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-82 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901311555o73626fcct7a0bd64f1e32c809@mail.gmail.com> http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ew/2006/12/25/stories/2006122500020100.htm One key to many locks Preethi J A single swipe is all it takes to unlock several applications. Smart cards promise faster and safer access to work spots and work systems. But the market is not too sold on them, yet. t's the ID badge of the future — minus the passport photo, company logo and a signature. Oops, unless you are thinking of a digital signature. The smart card is ready to make your life faster and smarter. Soon, the card will be your key to the office, food coupon, debit card and insurance. The smart card will be a digital identity store that will hold photographs (images), biometric data (fingerprints), personal information numbers (PIN) as well as other electronic credentials stored on the card, such as digital certificates and e-money. The card will allow a corporate user to use a single sign-on from any branch of his enterprise using a secure ID. These cards, when used with appropriate data collection systems, will allow their bearers to be identified in several standard ways. What it contains A smart card is a credit-card sized credential with a microprocessor chip embedded in it. Smart cards are used in conjunction with a smart card reader and access security software when used with a desktop or server. The contact-less ones have a chip embedded within, which is invisible to the user. This chip communicates with physical access readers over a wireless protocol to permit or deny entry into premises or sections within premises. The chip runs on Java Card operating system using cryptography for security. The 32-bit processor, running at 25 to 32 MHz, is encased by tough plastic to ensure it doesn't get scratched. These are the new kind of cards, called contact-less smart cards. Their predecessor, contact smart cards, or `proximity' cards, have been in existence for more than 20 years. The contact cards had a slow data transfer rate, the communication was not secure and the card could only launch a single application. The reader for such a card would continuously sweep the room for a card transmitting information at a particular frequency (125KHz). The card would respond with the card number when in the proximity of the reader. The new contact-less smart card does more than that. After responding to the reader's sweep request with a serial number, it requests an encrypted communication over the 13.58 MHz frequency. The reader authenticates and initiates a secure communication. The card then transfers data stored on it. It uses encrypted security, and can store up to 16 Kb of data. Since it is based on a processor, it can launch multiple applications. It is also much faster at 424 KB/sec. Smart badging According to the Smart Card Alliance, identity theft is the fourth most common threat to companies today, after viruses, `denial of service' attacks and spam. With smart badging, which is the combination of physical and logical access capabilities on a single card, organisations can ensure this threat is mitigated. Organisations can manage and monitor their employees' movements both in reality (across the office) and virtually (in the company network). Smart cards can be used for both physical access (such as entry to buildings) and logical access (such as access to computer systems and networks). When a user walks up to his desktop, the chip on the smart card transmits the information on it to the reader, which reads, stores and identifies the biometric template of the individual, before granting access to the desktop. The card can also store digital certificates, which are used to send secure e-mails and for accessing sensitive content on the Intranet. According to IDC, 60 per cent of identity threats are internal, people with privileged access. Smart cards are part of the solution to this issue. Examples of application Surat-based Mahindra Brothers, a jewellery store, uses smart cards to manage its employees and sub-contractors. The jeweller relies on smart cards to restrict admission to its jewellery polishing and design houses, says Krishna Prasad H.S., Product Marketing Manager, Systems, Security Technology Division, Bosch. A tuition provider for engineering studies in Mumbai is also taking the smart route. It has issued smart cards instead of ID cards to students availing of tuition. Previously, the provider faced discrepancies and defaulters. Many students would attend the wrong classes, or pursue extra tuition without deigning to register themselves. With smart cards, professors could keep a check on the attendance and the students, too, were able to manage their tuitions better. It also saved the tuition provider from further losses, says Anil Makhija, General Manager - Projects, CA Satyam ASP. Why it hasn't matured yet The perception of smart cards is that it is difficult or too costly to make changes to systems or to implement cost savings strategies. However, according to RSA Security, a provider of smart cards, they can be deployed throughout the organisation just as you would any other ID badge, without requiring process changes. There is a clear lack of information and tools to support decision making by Facility Managers, says T.V. Chandrashekar, Head - Sales (South India), Honeywell Building Solutions. "There is a high ongoing cost for maintaining installed systems, keeping up with technology and training staff, and integration of systems is also difficult. Systems don't operate in a way that supports how users want to run their business," he says. However, the advantages of installing them now are many, say early adopters. The backbone is established for future expansions, and integration with other building sub-systems such as Video Surveillance & Physical Security can be done easily. The tech road map is also established for subsequent expansion — Canteen, Library, E-Purse, RFID Systems, ERP Integration, etc. These are besides the primary advantage of smart cards enabling enterprises to assure their employees of enhanced safety and security. The use of smart card for access in office buildings is now a Rs 250-crore market in India. Applications of smart card in e-Governance (national ID card project) and credit cards are being hit by various challenges and issues, including bureaucracy and legacy infrastructure, says Makhija. It is learnt that the Bangalore-based ITI is bidding for the National ID card project, which will assign every Indian citizen a smart card for identification. Says Sourabh Kaushal, Industry Manager, ICT Practice, Frost & Sullivan India, "In 2005, the smart cards market was $66.6 million, showing a growth of 40.3 per cent over 2004, and is expected to reach $248 million by 2009."Also, industry reports indicate that India's installed base of smart cards is about 70 million, estimated to cross 400 million in 2012. preethij at thehindu.co.in From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Sun Feb 1 05:27:38 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 15:57:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] India Peace Group Required in Pakistan: Sethi In-Reply-To: <141684.36834.qm@web51412.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <549666.63683.qm@web53605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Yousuf, The reason why you find my post simplistic is the same reason why Najam Sethi's article makes so much sense to you-you try to rationalize the acts of the Pakistani state and try to equate it with India.Anyway,please read and respond to the whole of my post instead of picking a few sentences from here and there.Maybe you will also understand why Najam Sethi deserves dictatorship. Najam Sethi's version of events closely matches the desired narrative that the Pakistani state would want to propagate,both to Pakistani citizens and to the world.Lets go through them once again. Pakistan had border disputes with both its neighbors.In both cases it chose to create and nurture violent so called non-state actors as part of its terrorism based foreign policy.Taliban and LET have not fallen from the sky.They are not grass root movements.They were result of a conscious and systematic act by the Pakistan govt.If you have read the articles posted by me you would know that LET doesn't have Kashmiris and it is active in other countries too besides India.The direct result of such a policy is that relationship sores and the Army is able to dominate the national narrative. There was a ceasefire and talks were going on between Pakistan and India.Musharraf had given up power after intense pressure from inside and outside Pakistan.What do you think has been the result of the LET sponsored attacks? Pakistani army is not stupid.They know that India will not negotiate when faced by acts of terrorism.Even the country-less Palestinians refused to negotiate with the Isaraelis.There is no reason that India being the status quo power will negotiate in face of LET sponsored terrorism. This suits the army just fine.That is the very reason they will never cooperate with India in the investigation of the attacks.Recently report has been leaked that they are claiming that India framed the evidence. They can again play the Pakistani nation for Kashmir and occupy the dominant position in the political discourse of Pakistan. If the point Mr Sethi is making is that the non state actors in Pakistan are because of external factors,can he explain what the Taliban is doing in NWFP and FATA right now and why is the Pakistan army not taking it on?Why is the head of ISI making statements like the Taliban need their "freedom of expression"? The point is not that non-state actors have not been used by India,the point is that for Pak army its an existential issue.The creation of conflicts allows them to be at the top of the political food chain in Pakistan.If there had not been Kashmir,there would have been some other supposed raison d artre for LET. He further writes "A war between India > and Pakistan would hurt India more than Pakistan simply > because “ shining” India has more to lose than “ > failing” Pakistan," This is another disingenuous comment.Look at what Pakistan has come to.In the sixties it had a better growth rate than India, when India was still going through its socialistic experiment.The Pakistani army,however,has grown richer and richer.If Najam Sethi and the likes of him do not realize that the Pak Army and ISI are the root cause of the state Pakistan is in right now and continue to buy the bogey of India and Kashmir,then its fair to say that they deserves dictatorship. Thank you Rahul --- On Sat, 1/31/09, Yousuf wrote: > From: Yousuf > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] India Peace Group Required in Pakistan: Sethi > To: "sarai list" , "Kumkum Chadha" , rahul_capri at yahoo.com > Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 12:01 PM > Dear Rahul > To say that anybody "deserves dictatorship" is > itself a problematic statement. You are again trying to > understand very complex issues in simplistic manner. I think > some of Najam Sethi's write-ups make a lot of sense. I > am copying below another article from Mail Today which I > read a month ago. I found it an extremely sharp-focused view > on today's situation - reads like a good power-point > presentation: > > > A REGIONAL STRATEGY TO FIGHT TERROR > by Najam Sethi > 27 December 2008 > > THE bad news is that a private intelligence think tank in > the US has forecast war between India and Pakistan. The good > news is that this think tanks political risk assessments > have proven wrong more > often than right in the past. Even better is the constant > reassurance by the Indian prime minister, Dr. Manmohan > Singh, that war is not an option for either nucleararmed > country. Even so, Pakistans decision to remain on red alert > is wise. > But there is no point in drumming up international voices > like those of Interpol in support of Pakistans claim that > India has not provided sufficient evidence linking Mumbai to > Faridkot. The harsh fact is that the whole world — not > without some reason — believes that Pakistan is the “ > epicenter of terrorism”. Therefore it would be better for > the Pakistani government and military to do their best to > track down and halt the terrorist networks responsible for > regional mayhem. The alternative is international isolation > and sanctions. That said, everyone must recognize the three > main issues in the region, at the heart of which is the > Pakistani states relentless quest for "national > security". The first is Pakistan's refusal to > accept the LoC as the border with India because of the > simmering dispute over Kashmir. The second, which derives > from the first, is Afghanistan's refusal to accept the > Durand Line as the border with Pakistan. And the third, > which > derives from the second, is the conflict between the > US-led international community and Al-Qaeda- led Islamic > radical resistance based in Afghanistan and Pakistan's > tribal areas. > > All three are inter- related and have spawned non- state > actors to tilt the balance of power in the great game in the > region. > PAKISTAN'S unresolved dispute with India over Kashmir > has had nine disastrous consequences. > One, it has provoked war between the two states (as in 1965 > and 1971). Two, it has spawned non-state warring actors as > state proxies in time of peace ( by Pakistan in Indian > Punjab in the 1980s and Kashmir in the 1990s and by India in > Balochistan in the 1970s and 2000s). Three, the bitterness > over Kashmir has led to a proliferation of other disputes > over Siachin, Sir Creek, and now Baglair. Four, by virtue > of being a Soviet ally through much of the cold war, India > was encouraged to outflank Pakistan in Afghanistan, stop > Kabul from settling the Durand Line with Islamabad and > provoke Pashtun nationalism and separatism in the NWFP. > Five, when an opportunity arose to expel the Soviets from > Afghanistan in the 1980s, Pakistan readily joined hands > with the US to create non- state actors for the purpose of > staking its own claim in the 1980s. Six, after the Soviets > and Americans departed from Kabul, Pakistan and India > continued to slug it out in Afghanistan via proxies — > Pakistan through sections of the Pashtun Mujahidin and later > the > Pashtun Taliban, and India via the Uzbek- Tajik Northern > Alliance (NA). Seven, the scales in Afghanistan tilted in > favour of Pakistan when the Taliban seized control of Kabul > in 1997 and sent the NA packing to the north, and against > Pakistan after the Taliban cobbled an alliance with Al-Qaeda > and provoked America to react in 2001, emboldening India to > consolidate its stake with the NA- dominated and US- backed > Karzai regime. Eight, Pakistan was now compelled to turn a > blind eye to Taliban safe havens in its tribal areas in the > expectation that its old “assets” could be retained to > capture Kabul and thwart India after the exit of the > Americans from the region. Nine, this “ protection” to > the > Taliban has outraged America which has openly breached > Pakistans territorial sovereignty in order to put the > Al-Qaeda-Taliban down and precipitated a wave of anti- > American and anti- Indian religious nationalism in Pakistan. > > > The most significant consequence of Pakistan's > unresolved disputes with India is the rise of the Pakistani > military, at the expense of the civilians, as the > pre-eminent force in Pakistan's body politic based on > the notion of a national security state. The military has > created and sustained non- state religious actors both as a > means of undermining the > mainstream political parties to ensure its predominant role > in politics and as a tactical tool to keep India under > pressure to resolve Kashmir. > > This implies that without a resolution of the various > conflicts that bedevil India- Pakistan relations in Kashmir, > Quetta and Kabul, the non- state actors that have assumed > critical mass because of the intelligence agencies proxy > wars in the region, cannot be tracked and shut down, either > in Pakistan or India or Afghanistan. Conflict resolution > would also be the starting point for redressing the civil- > military imbalance within Pakistan that stops the militarist > national security state from transiting to a democratic > social security state. > > INDIA has had an aversion to multilateral diplomacy to > resolve its bilateral disputes in the region. But > bilateralism hasnt worked and disputes have become bleeding > wounds. Yet, when there has been conflict, both countries > have clutched at multilateralism to stop the downslide into > nuclear war, as during Kargil in 1999, LoC in 2002 and now > via the UNSCs directives to Pakistan to ban some non-state > actors. Therefore, a regional conflict- resolution approach > is the need of the hour to diffuse the Kashmir-Kabul-Quetta > time bomb. This should include America, Afghanistan, India > and Pakistan, along with their proxies like the Taliban and > the Northern Alliance. A high- profile American regional > envoy would facilitate the process, since both India and > Pakistan are on the right side of Washington for the first > time in history. India should start talking seriously to the > Kashmiris in Srinagar and resolve Siachin and Sir Creek > expeditiously. > > Pakistan must disband its non-state actors. America must > fashion a medium-term exit strategy from Kabul that > facilitates all ethnic stakeholders so that the Afghan > Pashtuns look towards Kabul and the Pakistani Pashtuns > towards Islamabad for their respective political salvation. > A holistic regional approach to conflict resolution is the > only route to ending the scourge of terrorism by non- state > actors and ensuring the survival and growth of > representative democracy in the region. A war between India > and Pakistan would hurt India more than Pakistan simply > because “ shining” India has more to lose than “ > failing” Pakistan, just as America has lost more than the > Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan by its reckless recourse > to war. > > The writer is the editor of The Friday Times > > > > --- On Sat, 1/31/09, Rahul Asthana > wrote: > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] India Peace Group Required > in Pakistan: Sethi > > To: "sarai list" > , "Kumkum Chadha" > , ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 10:34 AM > > Najam Sethi writes... > > > > "Indeed, the truth is that > > > the whole > > > business of armed non- state actors in Pakistan, > and > > the > > > rise of > > > Military Inc in Pakistan, who are together the > bane of > > > democratic > > > Pakistan and India, is directly linked to the > > unresolved > > > Kashmir conflict." > > This line of reasoning is increasingly becoming > popular > > with Indian liberals like Arundhati Roy who have an > > obsession with blaming India even if it means > sacrificing > > logic and intellectual honesty. > > In Pakistani context it is more interesting.The > Pakistani > > establishment (read Pakistani army and ISI)has been > pedaling > > layers upon layers of bullshit to whip up a frenzy > against > > India, and Pakistani liberals like Najam Sethi are > eating it > > up. > > Please consider the following two points- > > 1-This is from the article I posted earlier- > > "The fact remains that the LeT, created by the > > Pakistani ISI in the 1980s, is not a Kashmiri group; > it is > > active not only in India, but in Chechnya, Sudan, and > in > > Britain, where Cruikshank resides. Moreover, there is > hardly > > a single Kashmiri in the LeT organization. Most of the > LeT > > members are Pakistanis from Punjab and the tribal > areas, in > > addition to a smattering of British Muslims. It is > unlikely > > that Cruikshank does not know these facts, yet he > chose to > > distort them, to make the point that Kashmir is what > keeps > > India and Pakistan at each other’s throats." > > > > 2-If LET,or the so called bastions of Kashmiri > independence > > are because of the Kashmir issue being > > unresolved,notwithstanding point #1, then what are the > > Taliban? Why did Pakistan nurture and train the > Talibans for > > so many years? > > > > This is why I have to say that Pakistanis like Najam > Sethi > > deserve dictatorship. > > > > Thank you > > Rahul > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/31/09, Yousuf > > wrote: > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > Subject: [Reader-list] India Peace Group Required > in > > Pakistan: Sethi > > > To: "sarai list" > > , "Kumkum > Chadha" > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 9:40 AM > > > PAKISTAN - INDIA: > > > > > > Mail Today, January 30, 2009 > > > > > > INDIA MUST SEND ACROSS A PEACE GROUP > > > by Najam Sethi > > > > > > A PEACE delegation comprising human and > women's > > rights > > > activists, media peaceniks and party political > > > representatives from Pakistan recently visited > New > > Delhi. > > > They went with a threefold objective: to > > "condole" > > > the Mumbai attacks and express solidarity with > Indians > > in > > > their hour of grief, to explain how and why > Pakistan > > too is > > > a victim of the same sort of terrorism that is > > threatening > > > to afflict India, and to try and put the peace > process > > and > > > people- to- people channel back on track. > > > > > > In view of the adverse travel advisories put out > by > > both > > > countries and > > > the war paint put on by both media, the > delegation > > risked > > > being > > > branded "unpatriotic" in Pakistan. But > the > > two > > > leaders of the delegation, Asma Jehangir, > chairperson > > of the > > > Human Rights Commission > > > of Pakistan, and Imtiaz Alam, Secretary- General > of > > the > > > South Asia > > > Free Media Association, are known as fearless > > crusaders in > > > the region > > > for doggedly promoting the cause of peace between > > India and > > > Pakistan. > > > Given the goodwill they personally enjoy in > India, > > they > > > threw caution > > > to the wind at home and embarked on their journey > > across > > > the border > > > with great expectations. > > > > > > In the event, however, even they were surprised > by the > > > consistently > > > frosty, sometimes hostile, reception that they > > received at > > > private, > > > official and media forums in Delhi. It seemed as > if > > all of > > > India, > > > public and private, had consciously united to > send out > > one > > > harsh > > > message to Pakistan: that India is deeply wounded > and > > will > > > not take > > > another such attack lying down. This is perfectly > > > understandable. > > > > > > THE terrorist attack was on the Taj Mahal Hotel, > the > > pride > > > and symbol > > > of resurgent modern India; it humiliated > India's > > " > > > powerful" security > > > establishment by exposing its gaping weaknesses; > and > > the > > > terrorists > > > targeted innocent civilians rather than any > specific > > > military or > > > intelligence organ of the state or government, > thereby > > > signaling their > > > intent to wage war on India, Indians, and indeed > the > > very > > > idea of > > > secular India. > > > > > > Therefore credit must be given to the Indian > > establishment > > > for showing > > > great restraint and maturity, unlike the reckless > way > > in > > > which America > > > reacted after 9/ 11. > > > > > > The post- Mumbai composite view in India has > three > > salient > > > elements. > > > First, they say that elements of the Pakistani > state > > were > > > allegedly > > > complicit in the planning, organisation and > > implementation > > > of the > > > attack, evidence of which is proffered in the > recorded > > > chatter of the > > > terrorists with their Pakistani handlers which > suggest > > that > > > this > > > message was deliberately meant to be given. The > > implication > > > of this, > > > as India's foreign minister has expressly > stated, > > is > > > that non- state > > > actors and state actors in Pakistan were jointly > > > responsible. Second, > > > they believe that the government of President > Asif > > Zardari > > > is innocent > > > but weak and Pakistan's military > establishment is > > > guilty and strong. > > > The implication of this is that there is no point > in > > India > > > talking to > > > a weak civilian government or strong military > > establishment > > > — because > > > both are part of the problem — about redressing > > terrorism > > > and > > > advancing the peace agenda. Third, they insist > that > > > Pakistan should > > > not mistake India's overt outrage and anger > as > > merely > > > election- > > > related histrionics and that it will be business > as > > usual > > > after the > > > elections are over in April. On the contrary, > they > > claim > > > there is a > > > consensus in India's state and society that > India > > must > > > align with the > > > international community and fashion a united > strategic > > > resolve to > > > compel Pakistan's state and society to > dismantle > > its > > > terrorist > > > infrastructure on pain of international > encirclement, > > > blockade and > > > sanctions. > > > > > > Unfortunately, however, India and Indians seemed > blind > > to > > > an equally > > > harsh reality about their own state and > themselves — > > that > > > terrorism is > > > not just Pakistan's problem but increasingly > > > India's too. This is not > > > because the origins of such terrorism lie > exclusively > > in > > > political > > > distortions within Pakistan but also because > India has > > had > > > a role in > > > creating conditions conducive to its growth by > > refusing to > > > resolve the > > > regional conflicts that spawn it. Indeed, the > truth is > > that > > > the whole > > > business of armed non- state actors in Pakistan, > and > > the > > > rise of > > > Military Inc in Pakistan, who are together the > bane of > > > democratic > > > Pakistan and India, is directly linked to the > > unresolved > > > Kashmir conflict. > > > > > > Equally, it is profoundly unrealistic for > India's > > > government to claim > > > that because the Zardari government in Pakistan > is > > weak, > > > there is no > > > one to talk to in Pakistan about how to get the > peace > > > process back on > > > track. New Delhi had five years of unfruitful > dialogue > > with > > > a strong > > > military- led government from 2003- 08 that was > ready > > to > > > think > > > outside- the- box and make unbelievable > concessions, > > > especially on > > > Kashmir, but was constantly thwarted by the > statusquo > > and > > > lumbering > > > Indian bureaucracy. > > > > > > INDIANS worry and warn about a second terrorist > attack > > on > > > their soil. > > > > > > But just as it is inevitable in one way or > another in > > the > > > future, so > > > too is India's likely response. " > Surgical > > > strikes" and " limited war" > > > may be " honourable" self- satisfying > > responses, > > > but they are not > > > realistic options between nuclear armed states. > Nor > > should > > > India think > > > of responding by manufacturing its own version of > > state- > > > non- state > > > actors to foment trouble in Pakistan. It will > only > > hurtle > > > the two > > > peoples and states into confrontation, make > > India's > > > problem more > > > intractable and hurt it disproportionately > because it > > has > > > more > > > economic and political sheen to lose than > Pakistan. > > > Equally, if all > > > other options are on the table for India in > alliance > > with > > > the > > > international community, including punitive > sanctions, > > > blockades and > > > Pakistan's total isolation, it should be > clear > > that > > > such an occurrence > > > will have disastrous consequences for > Pakistan's > > > tanking economy and > > > its equally fragile national unity. Fortunately, > the > > view > > > in > > > responsible quarters in India is that even this > > response, > > > all options > > > short of war, is undesirable because it will > plunge > > > Pakistan into > > > headlong failure. The hawks, on the other hand, > argue > > that > > > at least > > > India will have ensured that Military Inc. will > have > > only > > > the ruins of > > > Pakistan to preside over if they continue to > muddy the > > > waters. Thus > > > the debate continues. > > > > > > A peace delegation from India needs to visit > Pakistan > > now, > > > not to > > > explain why India is angry — that message lies > in > > the > > > domain of the > > > Pakistani delegation that has just returned from > Delhi > > — > > > but to > > > understand why the cause of its established > democratic > > > state and civil > > > society is the same as that of Pakistan's > > fledgling > > > counterparts. > > > > > > The writer is the editor of The Friday Times > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the > > city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in > the > > subject > > > header. > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Sun Feb 1 09:00:50 2009 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 19:30:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] India Peace Group Required in Pakistan: Sethi In-Reply-To: <549666.63683.qm@web53605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <583635.9753.qm@web51407.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Rahul I agree with you (and even Sethi does) that Pakistani army and the ISI are the root cause of the situation and the terror in the region, but I thought that the historical reasons (which he points out) cannot also be ignored. I only mentioned Sethi's write-up because of the inter-relations he shows between various issues. I don't have much knowledge of Kashmir, but the history of how both Indian forces and Pakistan have exploited it cannot be seen disconnected from the situation of terror we have today, although it has acquired a different proportion today (and again India is not disconnected from it). There is no easy solution unless all those issues are addressed. But I'm still not convinced why anybody needs dictatorship. With that standard, even many Indians should be put under a dictator to get their acts right. Yousuf --- On Sun, 2/1/09, Rahul Asthana wrote: > From: Rahul Asthana > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] India Peace Group Required in Pakistan: Sethi > To: "sarai list" , "Kumkum Chadha" , ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 5:27 AM > Dear Yousuf, > The reason why you find my post simplistic is the same > reason why Najam Sethi's article makes so much sense to > you-you try to rationalize the acts of the Pakistani state > and try to equate it with India.Anyway,please read and > respond to the whole of my post instead of picking a few > sentences from here and there.Maybe you will also understand > why Najam Sethi deserves dictatorship. > Najam Sethi's version of events closely matches the > desired narrative that the Pakistani state would want to > propagate,both to Pakistani citizens and to the world.Lets > go through them once again. > Pakistan had border disputes with both its neighbors.In > both cases it chose to create and nurture violent so called > non-state actors as part of its terrorism based foreign > policy.Taliban and LET have not fallen from the sky.They are > not grass root movements.They were result of a conscious and > systematic act by the Pakistan govt.If you have read the > articles posted by me you would know that LET doesn't > have Kashmiris and it is active in other countries too > besides India.The direct result of such a policy is that > relationship sores and the Army is able to dominate the > national narrative. > There was a ceasefire and talks were going on between > Pakistan and India.Musharraf had given up power after > intense pressure from inside and outside Pakistan.What do > you think has been the result of the LET sponsored attacks? > Pakistani army is not stupid.They know that India will not > negotiate when faced by acts of terrorism.Even the > country-less Palestinians refused to negotiate with the > Isaraelis.There is no reason that India being the status quo > power will negotiate in face of LET sponsored terrorism. > This suits the army just fine.That is the very reason they > will never cooperate with India in the investigation of the > attacks.Recently report has been leaked that they are > claiming that India framed the evidence. They can again play > the Pakistani nation for Kashmir and occupy the dominant > position in the political discourse of Pakistan. > If the point Mr Sethi is making is that the non state > actors in Pakistan are because of external factors,can he > explain what the Taliban is doing in NWFP and FATA right now > and why is the Pakistan army not taking it on?Why is the > head of ISI making statements like the Taliban need their > "freedom of expression"? > The point is not that non-state actors have not been used > by India,the point is that for Pak army its an existential > issue.The creation of conflicts allows them to be at the top > of the political food chain in Pakistan.If there had not > been Kashmir,there would have been some other supposed > raison d artre for LET. > He further writes > "A war between India > > and Pakistan would hurt India more than Pakistan > simply > > because “ shining” India has more to lose than “ > > failing” Pakistan," > This is another disingenuous comment.Look at what Pakistan > has come to.In the sixties it had a better growth rate than > India, when India was still going through its socialistic > experiment.The Pakistani army,however,has grown richer and > richer.If Najam Sethi and the likes of him do not realize > that the Pak Army and ISI are the root cause of the state > Pakistan is in right now and continue to buy the bogey of > India and Kashmir,then its fair to say that they deserves > dictatorship. > > Thank you > Rahul > > > > --- On Sat, 1/31/09, Yousuf > wrote: > > > From: Yousuf > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] India Peace Group Required > in Pakistan: Sethi > > To: "sarai list" > , "Kumkum Chadha" > , rahul_capri at yahoo.com > > Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 12:01 PM > > Dear Rahul > > To say that anybody "deserves dictatorship" > is > > itself a problematic statement. You are again trying > to > > understand very complex issues in simplistic manner. I > think > > some of Najam Sethi's write-ups make a lot of > sense. I > > am copying below another article from Mail Today which > I > > read a month ago. I found it an extremely > sharp-focused view > > on today's situation - reads like a good > power-point > > presentation: > > > > > > A REGIONAL STRATEGY TO FIGHT TERROR > > by Najam Sethi > > 27 December 2008 > > > > THE bad news is that a private intelligence think tank > in > > the US has forecast war between India and Pakistan. > The good > > news is that this think tanks political risk > assessments > > have proven wrong more > > often than right in the past. Even better is the > constant > > reassurance by the Indian prime minister, Dr. Manmohan > > Singh, that war is not an option for either > nucleararmed > > country. Even so, Pakistans decision to remain on red > alert > > is wise. > > But there is no point in drumming up international > voices > > like those of Interpol in support of Pakistans claim > that > > India has not provided sufficient evidence linking > Mumbai to > > Faridkot. The harsh fact is that the whole world — > not > > without some reason — believes that Pakistan is the > “ > > epicenter of terrorism”. Therefore it would be > better for > > the Pakistani government and military to do their best > to > > track down and halt the terrorist networks responsible > for > > regional mayhem. The alternative is international > isolation > > and sanctions. That said, everyone must recognize the > three > > main issues in the region, at the heart of which is > the > > Pakistani states relentless quest for "national > > security". The first is Pakistan's refusal to > > accept the LoC as the border with India because of the > > simmering dispute over Kashmir. The second, which > derives > > from the first, is Afghanistan's refusal to accept > the > > Durand Line as the border with Pakistan. And the > third, > > which > > derives from the second, is the conflict between the > > US-led international community and Al-Qaeda- led > Islamic > > radical resistance based in Afghanistan and > Pakistan's > > tribal areas. > > > > All three are inter- related and have spawned non- > state > > actors to tilt the balance of power in the great game > in the > > region. > > PAKISTAN'S unresolved dispute with India over > Kashmir > > has had nine disastrous consequences. > > One, it has provoked war between the two states (as in > 1965 > > and 1971). Two, it has spawned non-state warring > actors as > > state proxies in time of peace ( by Pakistan in Indian > > Punjab in the 1980s and Kashmir in the 1990s and by > India in > > Balochistan in the 1970s and 2000s). Three, the > bitterness > > over Kashmir has led to a proliferation of other > disputes > > over Siachin, Sir Creek, and now Baglair. Four, by > virtue > > of being a Soviet ally through much of the cold war, > India > > was encouraged to outflank Pakistan in Afghanistan, > stop > > Kabul from settling the Durand Line with Islamabad and > > provoke Pashtun nationalism and separatism in the > NWFP. > > Five, when an opportunity arose to expel the Soviets > from > > Afghanistan in the 1980s, Pakistan readily joined > hands > > with the US to create non- state actors for the > purpose of > > staking its own claim in the 1980s. Six, after the > Soviets > > and Americans departed from Kabul, Pakistan and India > > continued to slug it out in Afghanistan via proxies > — > > Pakistan through sections of the Pashtun Mujahidin and > later > > the > > Pashtun Taliban, and India via the Uzbek- Tajik > Northern > > Alliance (NA). Seven, the scales in Afghanistan tilted > in > > favour of Pakistan when the Taliban seized control of > Kabul > > in 1997 and sent the NA packing to the north, and > against > > Pakistan after the Taliban cobbled an alliance with > Al-Qaeda > > and provoked America to react in 2001, emboldening > India to > > consolidate its stake with the NA- dominated and US- > backed > > Karzai regime. Eight, Pakistan was now compelled to > turn a > > blind eye to Taliban safe havens in its tribal areas > in the > > expectation that its old “assets” could be > retained to > > capture Kabul and thwart India after the exit of the > > Americans from the region. Nine, this “ > protection” to > > the > > Taliban has outraged America which has openly breached > > Pakistans territorial sovereignty in order to put the > > Al-Qaeda-Taliban down and precipitated a wave of anti- > > American and anti- Indian religious nationalism in > Pakistan. > > > > > > The most significant consequence of Pakistan's > > unresolved disputes with India is the rise of the > Pakistani > > military, at the expense of the civilians, as the > > pre-eminent force in Pakistan's body politic based > on > > the notion of a national security state. The military > has > > created and sustained non- state religious actors both > as a > > means of undermining the > > mainstream political parties to ensure its predominant > role > > in politics and as a tactical tool to keep India under > > pressure to resolve Kashmir. > > > > This implies that without a resolution of the various > > conflicts that bedevil India- Pakistan relations in > Kashmir, > > Quetta and Kabul, the non- state actors that have > assumed > > critical mass because of the intelligence agencies > proxy > > wars in the region, cannot be tracked and shut down, > either > > in Pakistan or India or Afghanistan. Conflict > resolution > > would also be the starting point for redressing the > civil- > > military imbalance within Pakistan that stops the > militarist > > national security state from transiting to a > democratic > > social security state. > > > > INDIA has had an aversion to multilateral diplomacy to > > resolve its bilateral disputes in the region. But > > bilateralism hasnt worked and disputes have become > bleeding > > wounds. Yet, when there has been conflict, both > countries > > have clutched at multilateralism to stop the downslide > into > > nuclear war, as during Kargil in 1999, LoC in 2002 and > now > > via the UNSCs directives to Pakistan to ban some > non-state > > actors. Therefore, a regional conflict- resolution > approach > > is the need of the hour to diffuse the > Kashmir-Kabul-Quetta > > time bomb. This should include America, Afghanistan, > India > > and Pakistan, along with their proxies like the > Taliban and > > the Northern Alliance. A high- profile American > regional > > envoy would facilitate the process, since both India > and > > Pakistan are on the right side of Washington for the > first > > time in history. India should start talking seriously > to the > > Kashmiris in Srinagar and resolve Siachin and Sir > Creek > > expeditiously. > > > > Pakistan must disband its non-state actors. America > must > > fashion a medium-term exit strategy from Kabul that > > facilitates all ethnic stakeholders so that the Afghan > > Pashtuns look towards Kabul and the Pakistani Pashtuns > > towards Islamabad for their respective political > salvation. > > A holistic regional approach to conflict resolution is > the > > only route to ending the scourge of terrorism by non- > state > > actors and ensuring the survival and growth of > > representative democracy in the region. A war between > India > > and Pakistan would hurt India more than Pakistan > simply > > because “ shining” India has more to lose than “ > > failing” Pakistan, just as America has lost more > than the > > Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan by its reckless > recourse > > to war. > > > > The writer is the editor of The Friday Times > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/31/09, Rahul Asthana > > wrote: > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] India Peace Group > Required > > in Pakistan: Sethi > > > To: "sarai list" > > , "Kumkum > Chadha" > > , ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > > Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 10:34 AM > > > Najam Sethi writes... > > > > > > "Indeed, the truth is that > > > > the whole > > > > business of armed non- state actors in > Pakistan, > > and > > > the > > > > rise of > > > > Military Inc in Pakistan, who are together > the > > bane of > > > > democratic > > > > Pakistan and India, is directly linked to > the > > > unresolved > > > > Kashmir conflict." > > > This line of reasoning is increasingly becoming > > popular > > > with Indian liberals like Arundhati Roy who have > an > > > obsession with blaming India even if it means > > sacrificing > > > logic and intellectual honesty. > > > In Pakistani context it is more interesting.The > > Pakistani > > > establishment (read Pakistani army and ISI)has > been > > pedaling > > > layers upon layers of bullshit to whip up a > frenzy > > against > > > India, and Pakistani liberals like Najam Sethi > are > > eating it > > > up. > > > Please consider the following two points- > > > 1-This is from the article I posted earlier- > > > "The fact remains that the LeT, created by > the > > > Pakistani ISI in the 1980s, is not a Kashmiri > group; > > it is > > > active not only in India, but in Chechnya, Sudan, > and > > in > > > Britain, where Cruikshank resides. Moreover, > there is > > hardly > > > a single Kashmiri in the LeT organization. Most > of the > > LeT > > > members are Pakistanis from Punjab and the tribal > > areas, in > > > addition to a smattering of British Muslims. It > is > > unlikely > > > that Cruikshank does not know these facts, yet he > > chose to > > > distort them, to make the point that Kashmir is > what > > keeps > > > India and Pakistan at each other’s > throats." > > > > > > 2-If LET,or the so called bastions of Kashmiri > > independence > > > are because of the Kashmir issue being > > > unresolved,notwithstanding point #1, then what > are the > > > Taliban? Why did Pakistan nurture and train the > > Talibans for > > > so many years? > > > > > > This is why I have to say that Pakistanis like > Najam > > Sethi > > > deserve dictatorship. > > > > > > Thank you > > > Rahul > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/31/09, Yousuf > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > Subject: [Reader-list] India Peace Group > Required > > in > > > Pakistan: Sethi > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > , "Kumkum > > Chadha" > > > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 9:40 AM > > > > PAKISTAN - INDIA: > > > > > > > > Mail Today, January 30, 2009 > > > > > > > > INDIA MUST SEND ACROSS A PEACE GROUP > > > > by Najam Sethi > > > > > > > > A PEACE delegation comprising human and > > women's > > > rights > > > > activists, media peaceniks and party > political > > > > representatives from Pakistan recently > visited > > New > > > Delhi. > > > > They went with a threefold objective: to > > > "condole" > > > > the Mumbai attacks and express solidarity > with > > Indians > > > in > > > > their hour of grief, to explain how and why > > Pakistan > > > too is > > > > a victim of the same sort of terrorism that > is > > > threatening > > > > to afflict India, and to try and put the > peace > > process > > > and > > > > people- to- people channel back on track. > > > > > > > > In view of the adverse travel advisories put > out > > by > > > both > > > > countries and > > > > the war paint put on by both media, the > > delegation > > > risked > > > > being > > > > branded "unpatriotic" in Pakistan. > But > > the > > > two > > > > leaders of the delegation, Asma Jehangir, > > chairperson > > > of the > > > > Human Rights Commission > > > > of Pakistan, and Imtiaz Alam, Secretary- > General > > of > > > the > > > > South Asia > > > > Free Media Association, are known as > fearless > > > crusaders in > > > > the region > > > > for doggedly promoting the cause of peace > between > > > India and > > > > Pakistan. > > > > Given the goodwill they personally enjoy in > > India, > > > they > > > > threw caution > > > > to the wind at home and embarked on their > journey > > > across > > > > the border > > > > with great expectations. > > > > > > > > In the event, however, even they were > surprised > > by the > > > > consistently > > > > frosty, sometimes hostile, reception that > they > > > received at > > > > private, > > > > official and media forums in Delhi. It > seemed as > > if > > > all of > > > > India, > > > > public and private, had consciously united > to > > send out > > > one > > > > harsh > > > > message to Pakistan: that India is deeply > wounded > > and > > > will > > > > not take > > > > another such attack lying down. This is > perfectly > > > > understandable. > > > > > > > > THE terrorist attack was on the Taj Mahal > Hotel, > > the > > > pride > > > > and symbol > > > > of resurgent modern India; it humiliated > > India's > > > " > > > > powerful" security > > > > establishment by exposing its gaping > weaknesses; > > and > > > the > > > > terrorists > > > > targeted innocent civilians rather than any > > specific > > > > military or > > > > intelligence organ of the state or > government, > > thereby > > > > signaling their > > > > intent to wage war on India, Indians, and > indeed > > the > > > very > > > > idea of > > > > secular India. > > > > > > > > Therefore credit must be given to the Indian > > > establishment > > > > for showing > > > > great restraint and maturity, unlike the > reckless > > way > > > in > > > > which America > > > > reacted after 9/ 11. > > > > > > > > The post- Mumbai composite view in India has > > three > > > salient > > > > elements. > > > > First, they say that elements of the > Pakistani > > state > > > were > > > > allegedly > > > > complicit in the planning, organisation and > > > implementation > > > > of the > > > > attack, evidence of which is proffered in > the > > recorded > > > > chatter of the > > > > terrorists with their Pakistani handlers > which > > suggest > > > that > > > > this > > > > message was deliberately meant to be given. > The > > > implication > > > > of this, > > > > as India's foreign minister has > expressly > > stated, > > > is > > > > that non- state > > > > actors and state actors in Pakistan were > jointly > > > > responsible. Second, > > > > they believe that the government of > President > > Asif > > > Zardari > > > > is innocent > > > > but weak and Pakistan's military > > establishment is > > > > guilty and strong. > > > > The implication of this is that there is no > point > > in > > > India > > > > talking to > > > > a weak civilian government or strong > military > > > establishment > > > > — because > > > > both are part of the problem — about > redressing > > > terrorism > > > > and > > > > advancing the peace agenda. Third, they > insist > > that > > > > Pakistan should > > > > not mistake India's overt outrage and > anger > > as > > > merely > > > > election- > > > > related histrionics and that it will be > business > > as > > > usual > > > > after the > > > > elections are over in April. On the > contrary, > > they > > > claim > > > > there is a > > > > consensus in India's state and society > that > > India > > > must > > > > align with the > > > > international community and fashion a united > > strategic > > > > resolve to > > > > compel Pakistan's state and society to > > dismantle > > > its > > > > terrorist > > > > infrastructure on pain of international > > encirclement, > > > > blockade and > > > > sanctions. > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, however, India and Indians > seemed > > blind > > > to > > > > an equally > > > > harsh reality about their own state and > > themselves — > > > that > > > > terrorism is > > > > not just Pakistan's problem but > increasingly > > > > India's too. This is not > > > > because the origins of such terrorism lie > > exclusively > > > in > > > > political > > > > distortions within Pakistan but also because > > India has > > > had > > > > a role in > > > > creating conditions conducive to its growth > by > > > refusing to > > > > resolve the > > > > regional conflicts that spawn it. Indeed, > the > > truth is > > > that > > > > the whole > > > > business of armed non- state actors in > Pakistan, > > and > > > the > > > > rise of > > > > Military Inc in Pakistan, who are together > the > > bane of > > > > democratic > > > > Pakistan and India, is directly linked to > the > > > unresolved > > > > Kashmir conflict. > > > > > > > > Equally, it is profoundly unrealistic for > > India's > > > > government to claim > > > > that because the Zardari government in > Pakistan > > is > > > weak, > > > > there is no > > > > one to talk to in Pakistan about how to get > the > > peace > > > > process back on > > > > track. New Delhi had five years of > unfruitful > > dialogue > > > with > > > > a strong > > > > military- led government from 2003- 08 that > was > > ready > > > to > > > > think > > > > outside- the- box and make unbelievable > > concessions, > > > > especially on > > > > Kashmir, but was constantly thwarted by the > > statusquo > > > and > > > > lumbering > > > > Indian bureaucracy. > > > > > > > > INDIANS worry and warn about a second > terrorist > > attack > > > on > > > > their soil. > > > > > > > > But just as it is inevitable in one way or > > another in > > > the > > > > future, so > > > > too is India's likely response. " > > Surgical > > > > strikes" and " limited war" > > > > may be " honourable" self- > satisfying > > > responses, > > > > but they are not > > > > realistic options between nuclear armed > states. > > Nor > > > should > > > > India think > > > > of responding by manufacturing its own > version of > > > state- > > > > non- state > > > > actors to foment trouble in Pakistan. It > will > > only > > > hurtle > > > > the two > > > > peoples and states into confrontation, make > > > India's > > > > problem more > > > > intractable and hurt it disproportionately > > because it > > > has > > > > more > > > > economic and political sheen to lose than > > Pakistan. > > > > Equally, if all > > > > other options are on the table for India in > > alliance > > > with > > > > the > > > > international community, including punitive > > sanctions, > > > > blockades and > > > > Pakistan's total isolation, it should be > > clear > > > that > > > > such an occurrence > > > > will have disastrous consequences for > > Pakistan's > > > > tanking economy and > > > > its equally fragile national unity. > Fortunately, > > the > > > view > > > > in > > > > responsible quarters in India is that even > this > > > response, > > > > all options > > > > short of war, is undesirable because it will > > plunge > > > > Pakistan into > > > > headlong failure. The hawks, on the other > hand, > > argue > > > that > > > > at least > > > > India will have ensured that Military Inc. > will > > have > > > only > > > > the ruins of > > > > Pakistan to preside over if they continue to > > muddy the > > > > waters. Thus > > > > the debate continues. > > > > > > > > A peace delegation from India needs to visit > > Pakistan > > > now, > > > > not to > > > > explain why India is angry — that message > lies > > in > > > the > > > > domain of the > > > > Pakistani delegation that has just returned > from > > Delhi > > > — > > > > but to > > > > understand why the cause of its established > > democratic > > > > state and civil > > > > society is the same as that of > Pakistan's > > > fledgling > > > > counterparts. > > > > > > > > The writer is the editor of The Friday Times > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and > > the > > > city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in > > the > > > subject > > > > header. > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From indersalim at gmail.com Sun Feb 1 13:12:54 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 13:12:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: 1185] Against Dalit womenraj? ............. SUBHASH GATADE Message-ID: <47e122a70901312342j12379dc5l78acd2cb0849bcfc@mail.gmail.com> A recent study confirms that there is widespread violence against Scheduled Caste women panchayat leaders SUBHASH GATADE http://www.tehelka.com/story_main41.asp?filename=Ws070209dalit_woman.asp Recently, the Prime Minister participated in a programme organised to review the work of Panchayati Raj institutions at various levels. Apart from singing paeans about the success of this attempt at local governance he emphasised training of the representatives to make it more effective. But he avoided straying into stories of people like Sone Deyee, who are paying a heavy price for their participation in this bold experiment. Sone Deyee, 55, elected as a Sarpanch (reserved constitutency) from Ballabhgarh village, Bharatpur district, Rajasthan and her son Jal Singh, 20, have still not fully recovered from the brutal attack they were subjected to by the dominant Jat residents. In fact, the Jats wanted to teach Sone Deyee a lesson as she had refused to part with the muster rolls of labourers and records of public works executed during her tenure. Neither have the police registered a case under SC and ST (Prevention of atrocities) Act, 1989 nor the leaders of mainstream political parties bothered to pay attention to this case of miscarriage of justice. And the perpetrators of the attack are still roaming free. An added dimension to Sone Deyee's election pertains to the unceremonious exit of the previous occupant of the office, Hardeo Koli, who was similarly intimidated and thrashed by the same ruffians. A fact-finding team of dalit rights activists found that Hardeo Koli was blinded as a result of the thrashing by the accused. But can it be said that Sone Deyee's case in the 'novel experiment' of Panchayati Raj is an exception? One need not reiterate that, of late, this experiment in 'devolution of powers' has earned lot of praise in this part of South Asia. There is much talk of the 2.5 million representatives getting elected at various levels, and the impact it is said to be creating in devolution of powers. Celebrations apart, it cannot be denied that this experiment has not been able to address the internal incongruities arising out a societal setup mapped by caste, gender, community and class indices. Despite many instances of growing empowerment at the grassroots level, it is a sad commentary on the state of affairs that it has largely failed on this count. A study titled 'The State of Panchayats: 2007-2008' done by the Anand based 'Institute for Rural Management' (IRMA) rather reiterates this point. Submitted to the Prime Minister a few months ago, it is mentioned here in no ambiguous terms that sexual harassment and physical violence against women panchayat leaders belonging to Scheduled Caste households is 'widespread'. Underlining the continuing subjugation of dalits in social and economic spheres, despite the constitutional and legal provisions, it emphasises the discrimination and harassment faced by the Women Panchayat leaders belonging to Scheduled Caste category while discharging their public roles effectively ( Bias Runs Deep, says study - Hindustan Times, 27 th April 2008) This observation of the IRMA team reminds one of the tragic suicide of Urmila, an ex-Panchayat dalit women leader belonging to village Dularia, Betul, Madhya Pradesh (November 2007). In her suicide note, she revealed how she was raped twice by the son of the Panchayat chief for raising her voice over misappropriation of funds meant for village development. She further explained how despite repeated applications to the police, no action was taken against the perpetrators. Leave invoking SC-ST Act 1989, a first information report under one of the clauses of IPC was also not registered. In fact it took six long years for a mere report to be filed in the police station. Nobody was arrested for the crime. Frustrated over continued denial of justice and the connivance of the Panchayat head with the local police she decided to end her life. The first arrest in this case came only after her death. Even a cursory glance at newspaper reports suggests that travails and tribulations faced by dalt women Panchayat leaders like Urmila are no exception. A few days prior to Urmila's untimely death, Sumitra Devi's torture at the hands of the family members of the ex-Panchayat head had made headlines. Elected as a Panchayat head from a reserved constituency from Suratgarh, Ganganagar in Rajasthan, she was tied to a tree and beaten up by them. A dalit woman heading the Panchayat in village Beewai of Dausa (again Rajasthan) was not allowed to hoist the tricolour on 15 August. A few years ago, some concerned activists organised a public hearing of dalit women heading Panchayats in different parts of Rajasthan. These social activists later compiled the presentations in the form of a booklet which was titled 'Dalit Mahila Sarpanchon kee Kahani - Unaki Jubaani' (Stories of Dalit Women Panchayat Heads: In Their Own Words). It specifically noted that the the dalit women Panchayat leaders were exploited on three counts- being a woman, a dalit and poor.' Their experience had demonstrated that while dalits/women might have been able to get elected to different posts in the Panchayat because of the policy of affirmative action, the real goals of decentralisation of powers and empowerment were still a far cry. The experiences of the Panchayat leaders from Rajasthan rather corroborate what the IRMA report says. Woman Panchayat leaders face discrimination at the level of Panchayat at the hands of fellow members belonging to dominant castes and they are also subjected to humiliating treatment by the government officials in the department of rural development. The report rightly states "the provision of no-confidence motions is very deviously used to further dominate elected panchayat representatives from the SC category." Chhagibai from Rasoolpura, Ajmer a Panchayat head was the first lady to depose before the jury in the public hearing. She shared how the dominant caste members ganged up against her and removed her by bringing a no-confidence motion against her. They alleged that Chhagibai was not 'interested in development work' while she had enough proof about her initiative to start development work. The administration also remained a mute spectator. Kesan bai from Shergarh Panchayat was not even allowed to enter the Panchayat office when she got elected as head of the Panchayat. When somehow she managed to enter the office, she was not allowed to sit on the chair. Panchayat members belonging to the dominant castes tried to bring a no-confidence motion against her four times but since representatives belonging to scheduled category were in majority in the Panchayat they could not succeed in their venture. The IRMA report has suggested few measures to rectify the situation: that social justice committees be formed at various levels in the Panchayati Raj system, that the Panchayats headed by scheduled caste representative be given special grants by the Union ministry and the provision of no-confidence motion be amended suitably so that it is not misused. From indersalim at gmail.com Sun Feb 1 13:39:11 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 13:39:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 30, 000 mongoose hair brushes were for artists here and abroad Message-ID: <47e122a70902010009i3fd7f873o534d17458f305f39@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, A sad news, but killing nature for art is an age old practice. But there is hardly any indication of people's attitude going against such a practice. Ecology is an orphan, and in such a situation, i would be glad if Laskar or RSS adopt it boldly, but alas. Art discourses in art colleges dont discourage students from using these brushes, and so called great artists use them for creating master works still. It is a global problem. and to get rid of this ugliness hidden behind great master works, perhaps we need to change the ways of understanding- what Art is all about. May be some indifference to this problem leads our great artists to collect most expensive cars at the end of the successful carrier , and even dream a museum for their collection of Cars alongwith their painted canvasses with mongoose hair brushes. Yes, i am talking about MF Hussain 's latest shopping of 7.4 crore Bugatti Car which he thinks is a great sculpture. warmly inder salim here is the link http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Delhi/30000_mongoose_hair_brushes_seized_2_held/articleshow/4057990.cms NEW DELHI: The northeast district police, in collaboration with People for Animals (PFA), confiscated a large consignment of art brushes made out of mongoose hair on Saturday at a factory in the Bhajanpura area. The police also arrested two people in the case. According to Saurabh Gupta, wildlife officer from PFA, more than 30,000 brushes were confiscated each costing around Rs 3,000. They were a part of a consignment to be sent by road from Delhi to Mumbai. "Making these brushes requires absolute cruelty to animals. A mongoose is put in water boiling at a temperature of 100 degree Celsius and after it dies, it is further boiled in it for a few hours. Then, with a specialised machine, its skin and hair is removed and used for these brushes. Only 1-5 gram hair is recovered from one mongoose which makes it over a lakh mongoose slaughtered for this consignment alone,'' he said. He added that these brushes are made in Bijnor district's Sherkot area in Uttar Pradesh and are sold worldwide. "We had specific information about this consignment and informed the police about it," said Gupta. A senior police official confirmed this and said that two people were arrested red-handed while they were loading the consignment onto a truck. "The arrested accused are Pradip and Gama. The owner of the factory, Gulshan Jain, is absconding and a hunt for him is on. His factories in other parts of the city have also been earlier raided and similar cases are registered against him.'' A case under the Wildlife Protection Act has been registered and further investigations in the matter are on. -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From anivar.aravind at gmail.com Sun Feb 1 14:29:23 2009 From: anivar.aravind at gmail.com (Anivar Aravind) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 14:29:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Prof. Ilina Sen will Inaugurate ViBGYOR 2009 Message-ID: <35f96d470902010059t221080ccrebdc1d8baa7191d@mail.gmail.com> Dear Friends Greetings From ViBGYOR Film Collective Prof. Ilina Sen, wife of Dr. Binayak Sen inaugurates the 4th Edition of the ViBGYOR International Film Festival for short & documentary films at Sangeet Nataka Academy Campus, Thrissur on February 4th. Dr. Ilina Sen is an internationally known feminist scholar, human rights activist, a pacifist, an agronomist, a builder and manager of institutions committed to equitable and participative development, and an author. She is a professor of Gender Studies at Mahatma Gandhi Hindi University in Wardha, and manages an innovative NGO, Rupantar in the central Indian state of Chhattisgarh. Rupantar, set up by Ilina and her husband Dr. Binayak Senhouses programs including a village clinic in a falciparum malaria endemic area, an agricultural program focused on organic farming and preservation of indigenous biodiversity (e.g., of rice), program on food security and distribution systems, and several women's empowerment initiatives including resources for victims of domestic violence. Together, both Ilina and Binayak have worked for three decades among some of India's most impoverished and socially stigmatized populations (miners, peasants and India's indigenous groups) on issues of health, livelihood and civil liberties. They have also published several books in Hindi. On May 14, 2007, Dr. Binayak Sen was arrested in Raipur, under the controversial Chhattisgarh Special Public Security Act. Charges against him mostly focused on his official activities as general secretary of India's leading civil liberties organization, the People's Union of Civil Liberties (PUCL), visiting under-trial prisoners in the Raipur jail (to record their testimonies about health and treatment in prison), especially visits to individuals accused as "Naxalites" (the term for India's Maoists) and allegations that he "passed messages" to them. Dr. Sen. has denied all these charges categorically. In the past few months, several national and international protests and statements of concern have been reported, including a statement by 22 Nobel Laureates petitioning the government of India and Chhattisgarh to free Dr. Binayak Sen. Recently, Dr. Sen was recently awarded the prestigious Jonathan Mann award for Global Health and Human Rights for his services to poor tribal communities and his unwavering commitment to human rights. While Binayak remains in jail, Dr. Ilina Sen has co-coordinated his legal defense, been his publicist and liaison agent, raised funds, worked as a college teacher, and looked after the wellbeing and education of their two daughters. Ilina has made the journey to the US to receive the Jonathan Mann award on behalf of her husband and to present his case in person to the world at large. Now it's time for the 4th Edition of ViBGYOR International Short and Documentary Festival!. It's happening in 4th -8th of February 2009, at Thrissur, Kerala, India. Visit Festival Website for Move details http://www.vibgyorfilm.com About ViBGYOR ============ ViBGYOR celebrates different identities and the rich diversity of people, expressed in a festival of short and documentary films held every year in Thrissur, Kerala. The non-feature films showcased at ViBGYOR reveal the political energies of small communities and social movements that assert the heterogeneity of their identities and rootedness to their land, often fighting the haughtiness and ignorance of the establishment. With all its ambiguities and ambivalences, Identities and Diversity remains the key theme of the Festival. It covers the living experience of millions of people recorded by a set of skilled and committed documentary and short filmmakers from around the world. The four-day Film festival is not only a treat of brilliant films but an interface with filmmakers, activists, people's movement leaders, academicians, youth and common people from as divergent streams of life and activities. It includes talks, discussions, cultural programmes and informal exchanges ViBGYOR 2009 At A Glance ================== Dates: February 4th-8th, 2009 Venue: Sangeet Nataka Akademi Campus, Thrissur Focus 2009: FOOD sovereignty Retrospective: Shabnam Virmani, Ali Kazmi Region Focus: Pakistan Village ViBGYOR: in 5 panchayaths around Thrissur town, December 08-January 09. Campus ViBGYOR: in 5 colleges in and around Thrissur as curtain raiser National Conference: `Farm, Food and Fuel" February 4th, 10am-4pm Workshop: Documentary workshop for students, and members of film societies social organizations Film Packages ViBGYOR Package * Gender & Sexuality * Indigenous People * Dalit Reality * Fundamentalism v/s Diversity * Nation State * Globalisation * Region Focus : Pakistan Global Concerns * Human Rights * Migration * Health & HIV AIDS You can walk in to the Festival Venue on February4th and buy your Delegate Pass, 100/- for 5days (Rs.50/- for students) Come to ViBGYOR...Celebrate identities and diversity! Focus theme 2009: Food Sovereignty (Bakshya Swaraj) Organisors ======== Mazhavilmela-ViBGYOR International Film Festival is organised by ViBGYOR Film Collective, Chetana Media Institute (Thrissur), NOTTAM Traveling Film Festival , Navachitra Film Society, moving republic, CenSE, GAIA, and Visual Search In Partnership with The Other Media , INSAF, Vikas Adhyayan Kendra,National Adivasi Alliance, SICHREM & Human Rights Network, Orissa Development Action Forum (ODAF), Environmental Support Group(ESG), Visthar, Sangama, Focus on Global south, NESA, Labour Files, People's Watch and Kabani ~ Regards Anivar Aravind For ViBGYOR Film Collective From anivar.aravind at gmail.com Sun Feb 1 14:34:48 2009 From: anivar.aravind at gmail.com (Anivar Aravind) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 14:34:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Ilina Sen will Inaugurate ViBGYOR 2009 Message-ID: <35f96d470902010104y213dead9r3458f04e27094129@mail.gmail.com> Dear Friends Greetings From ViBGYOR Film Collective Prof. Ilina Sen, wife of Dr. Binayak Sen inaugurates the 4th Edition of the ViBGYOR International Film Festival for short & documentary films at Sangeet Nataka Academy Campus, Thrissur on February 4th. Dr. Ilina Sen is an internationally known feminist scholar, human rights activist, a pacifist, an agronomist, a builder and manager of institutions committed to equitable and participative development, and an author. She is a professor of Gender Studies at Mahatma Gandhi Hindi University in Wardha, and manages an innovative NGO, Rupantar in the central Indian state of Chhattisgarh. Rupantar, set up by Ilina and her husband Dr. Binayak Senhouses programs including a village clinic in a falciparum malaria endemic area, an agricultural program focused on organic farming and preservation of indigenous biodiversity (e.g., of rice), program on food security and distribution systems, and several women's empowerment initiatives including resources for victims of domestic violence. Together, both Ilina and Binayak have worked for three decades among some of India's most impoverished and socially stigmatized populations (miners, peasants and India's indigenous groups) on issues of health, livelihood and civil liberties. They have also published several books in Hindi. On May 14, 2007, Dr. Binayak Sen was arrested in Raipur, under the controversial Chhattisgarh Special Public Security Act. Charges against him mostly focused on his official activities as general secretary of India's leading civil liberties organization, the People's Union of Civil Liberties (PUCL), visiting under-trial prisoners in the Raipur jail (to record their testimonies about health and treatment in prison), especially visits to individuals accused as "Naxalites" (the term for India's Maoists) and allegations that he "passed messages" to them. Dr. Sen. has denied all these charges categorically. In the past few months, several national and international protests and statements of concern have been reported, including a statement by 22 Nobel Laureates petitioning the government of India and Chhattisgarh to free Dr. Binayak Sen. Recently, Dr. Sen was recently awarded the prestigious Jonathan Mann award for Global Health and Human Rights for his services to poor tribal communities and his unwavering commitment to human rights. While Binayak remains in jail, Dr. Ilina Sen has co-coordinated his legal defense, been his publicist and liaison agent, raised funds, worked as a college teacher, and looked after the wellbeing and education of their two daughters. Ilina has made the journey to the US to receive the Jonathan Mann award on behalf of her husband and to present his case in person to the world at large. Visit Festival Website for More details http://www.vibgyorfilm.com About ViBGYOR ============ ViBGYOR celebrates different identities and the rich diversity of people, expressed in a festival of short and documentary films held every year in Thrissur, Kerala. The non-feature films showcased at ViBGYOR reveal the political energies of small communities and social movements that assert the heterogeneity of their identities and rootedness to their land, often fighting the haughtiness and ignorance of the establishment. With all its ambiguities and ambivalences, Identities and Diversity remains the key theme of the Festival. It covers the living experience of millions of people recorded by a set of skilled and committed documentary and short filmmakers from around the world. The four-day Film festival is not only a treat of brilliant films but an interface with filmmakers, activists, people's movement leaders, academicians, youth and common people from as divergent streams of life and activities. It includes talks, discussions, cultural programmes and informal exchanges ViBGYOR 2009 At A Glance ================== Dates: February 4th-8th, 2009 Venue: Sangeet Nataka Akademi Campus, Thrissur Focus 2009: FOOD sovereignty Retrospective: Shabnam Virmani, Ali Kazmi Region Focus: Pakistan Village ViBGYOR: in 5 panchayaths around Thrissur town, December 08-January 09. Campus ViBGYOR: in 5 colleges in and around Thrissur as curtain raiser National Conference: `Farm, Food and Fuel" February 4th, 10am-4pm Workshop: Documentary workshop for students, and members of film societies social organizations Film Packages ViBGYOR Package * Gender & Sexuality * Indigenous People * Dalit Reality * Fundamentalism v/s Diversity * Nation State * Globalisation * Region Focus : Pakistan Global Concerns * Human Rights * Migration * Health & HIV AIDS _______________________________________________ You can walk in to the Festival Venue on February4th and buy your Delegate Pass, 100/- for 5days (Rs.50/- for students) Come to ViBGYOR...Celebrate identities and diversity! Focus theme 2009: Food Sovereignty (Bakshya Swaraj) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Organisors ======== Mazhavilmela-ViBGYOR International Film Festival is organised by ViBGYOR Film Collective, Chetana Media Institute (Thrissur), NOTTAM Traveling Film Festival , Navachitra Film Society, moving republic, CenSE, GAIA, and Visual Search In Partnership with The Other Media , INSAF, Vikas Adhyayan Kendra,National Adivasi Alliance, SICHREM & Human Rights Network, Orissa Development Action Forum (ODAF), Environmental Support Group(ESG), Visthar, Sangama, Focus on Global south, NESA, Labour Files, People's Watch and Kabani ~ Regards Anivar Aravind For ViBGYOR Film Collective http://2009.vibgyorfilm.com From anivar.aravind at gmail.com Sun Feb 1 14:56:17 2009 From: anivar.aravind at gmail.com (Anivar Aravind) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 14:56:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] ViBGYOR 2009 Programme Highlights Message-ID: <35f96d470902010126k3848e7bem8e2db4ed78fcb776@mail.gmail.com> *PROGRAMME HIGHLIGHTS* Workshop-cum- Film Festival: *Mass Communication for Masses* Tuesday, February 3-Sunday, February 8 *Organic Farm & Food Fair:* February 4-8, 10am-6pm *National Conference on `Food Sovereignty'* Wednesday, February 4, 10am-4pm (Kamla Bhasin, Dr. Prasada Rao, Satheesh Garu, and others) *Festival Inauguration: * February 4, 5.30pm Dr. Ilina Sen, Dean , School of Culture, Mahatma Gandhi International Hindi University, Wardha *Film Screenings & Activities * February 5-8 9am-1.00pm: Film Screenings 1.30-4.30: Open Forum & Mini Conferences 4.30-9.30: Screenings Mini Conference: February 5, 2.30-4.30 *Communal and Secular polities: Responses to terrorism, stereotyping and genocide * (S.P.Udayakumar, Shabnam Hashmi, Kamla Bhasin and others, organized in collaboration with VAK, Mumbai)) *Kabir Sandhya* (Kabirpanth): February 5, 7pm Mini Conference: February 6, 2.30-4.30 *Dravidian Ethnicity politics in South Asian context* (Siritunga Jayasuriya, Jagdish, Priwiraj SM and others) Workshop & Practical Demos: February 7-8, 10.30am-4.30pm *Community Radio Workshop* Mini Conference & Panel Discussion: February 7, 2.30-4.30 *Threats to Livelihood and People's basic rights (tribal/dalits/minorities)* : organized by SICHREM (Siritunga Jayasuriya, Jagdish, Pritwiraj SM and others) *FREE Binayak Sen Campaign: *February 8, 1.30pm-4.30pm (Satya Sivaraman, K.P.Sasi, Ajay T.G and others) Valedictory Function: Sunday, February 8, 5.30pm More Detials at http://2009.vibgyorfilm.com Anivar Aravind ViBGYOR Film Collective From vashsand at hotmail.com Sun Feb 1 15:39:54 2009 From: vashsand at hotmail.com (Sandeep) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 11:09:54 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood Message-ID: Dear Taha U said Lashkar change of name to JUD triggered ur intrest as ur intrested in question of identity. its could have been valid point if that change of name was brought about internal evolution only and not triggered by Pakistani state halfheartedly banning Lashkar under international preasure. Otherwise i think question of identity(along with culture)is one of the biggest post modren fuckups where every idioit who might not be able to spell it parades with it on his/hers chest and all liberal anthropoligsts etc hailing him/her until this phenomenon was restricted to miniorites both sexual and ethnic/religious, women.. it seemed quite harmless, we all r for liberation of opressed etc. but this identity disese aint restricted to opressed, suddenly so called dominant groups start playing this game hindu, white, muslim, jewish supremacy..making these socalled post modern intelligensia to scream in impotence. As far as im concerned none of these opressed or opresseors r really serious about anything except this spectacle keeps moving on who knows tommorow butcher from gujrat will start parding their hidden transvite opressed identies and demand justice. So have some beer /wine and enjoy. history of humanity is full of masscares so its nothing new, mass muders with sense and understanding of identity arent any better than without sense or understanding of it. Cheers Sandeep _________________________________________________________________ Show them the way! Add maps and directions to your party invites. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/events.aspx From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Feb 1 18:51:09 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 13:21:09 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <65be9bf40902010521v8475c11gaabfb2135d79a319@mail.gmail.com> Dear Sandeep Thank you for your response. I find your argument compelling not because of its tone of resignation or because it suggests an epicurean view to engage with the social world but because in your argument I feel an urge to let go the dominant ideas of the day and move on. There is of course nothing wrong in following a line of thinking where one consciously rejects any exercise to interpret dominant ideas in order to generate new forms of meaning instead take these ideas as given and carrying on with one's life. However, in my view and my sensibility as a researcher, which is very limited and limiting field in many ways, I would rather invest as much time and energy as I could in investigating these ideas, while suspending judgment and making new meaning. The reason being, it think, it is a worthwhile time-pass to inquire into the relationship between a man and his environment. This is not to compare it with or negate an epicurean view that you so lucidly suggests but to assert that an inquiry into ideas is not unworthy at all. In this regard if we view our life as a journey in a sea of ideas, the current of identity attracts me the most. This current, must I add, is a strong current, a deep current and a current which seems to be moving a lot of other ideas of this day. From what ever little I have inquired into the origins of this current, I have come up with no clear answer. We as a human race have existed for over five thousand years. Many people have come and gone in this time. Some of them when they were alive took time off from drinking beer to think and reflect on this current of identity. But still we do not have a clear picture as to how this current originated, evolved and turned into this great force which seems to sweeping us all. If there is fundamental conceptual confusion on hand, on the other there seems to be a superficial confidence on part of the national governments and the corporates regarding identity. And it seems that in pursuit of harnessing profit and power they have found two legitimizing arguments- one is poverty and the other is (in)security. We all know how callous any form of power is when it comes to servicing the needs of the most vulnerable sections of a society, hence instead of diverting our money which it takes taxes, to make sure that poorest of the poor get two square meals of food a day, power of the day is indulging in new excuses, like now it wants everyone to be fingerprinted to be identified as its own. What does this tells us-firstly, does power thinks that all of us are criminals? because finger printing till yesterday was only done on criminals and secondly, even after repeatedly carrying out identification exercises for over last one hundred and thirty years, power is not able to either comprehensively conjecture or comprehensively speculate about the nature of identity. I find it amusing as I do not understand why there seems to be so much of faith in a smart id card to deliver us from all the ill that India is facing right now because we do not know what the 'I' in MNIC stands for or what 'id' in a smart id card means. Imagine this- Picture our nation as a body. Now this body is afflicted with twin diseases-poverty and (in)security. Imagine the market (the corporates, the MNC's, the producers and manufacturers) as an expert. Like a doctor. Now this doctor tells the patient to take a drug, in this case, it is a smart id card. The person whose body it is takes this drug trusting the doctor. The doctor takes his fee and scoots off. Now you tell me what will happen to the body, if the drug is made of some known and some unknown chemicals? Will the body react favourably to such a treatment? or Will the body look forward to more such doses? Just think about it. We can always have more conversations on this. Warm regards Taha From vashsand at hotmail.com Sun Feb 1 20:24:01 2009 From: vashsand at hotmail.com (Sandeep) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 15:54:01 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha Message-ID: Identity poltics can be good time pass or resersch project if the point is to expose their hollowness without mercy and tolerence of stupidities of these actors whether oppressed or wannabe oppressed. As far as i think both oppressed and oppressors when they play identity game they want to change Supreme opressors, and do nothing about social inequality, democratic rights etc. In other words every oppressed mniority wants a space where it can oppress others. Israel and pakistan r great example of this game. As far as national id cards hehehe they will give state bit better control and their production,distribution etc will creat lot of jobs thus reducing both poverty and insecurity LOL Enjoy the spectacle _________________________________________________________________ Drag n’ drop—Get easy photo sharing with Windows Live™ Photos. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/photos.aspx From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Feb 1 21:14:09 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 15:44:09 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <65be9bf40902010744o672c4e93h24c52cf23d207b64@mail.gmail.com> Dear Sandeep Thank you for your mail. You mention- identity politics can be good time pass or research project if the point is to expose their hollowness without mercy and tolerance of stupidities of these actors whether oppressed or wannabe oppressed. I agree to this view but there can additional interpretations also, like the objective of the research could be to generate knowledge on any proposed co-relationships. In this instance, we are asked to believe that exists a relationship between a person and all those properties which signify him. We are asked to believe that this basket of signifiers has a name i.e. identity. We are further asked to believe that all those properties that encompass this name can be measured. >From what I have gathered I have not yet come across a satisfactory explanation of this measurement. On the contrary all existing equations of measurement are arbitrary and prone to human error. The rhetoric of identity cards is sleek and sophisticated. The government and other agencies both in the private and public domain are indulging in a huge public relations exercise to market this technology as the ultimate solution. I have my doubts with respect to the fundamental definition of identity and identification process. I believe these doubts are valid. A survey of literature made available in the public domain by the Government of India do not allay any fears or uncertainties with respect to these doubts. The literature in form of parliamentary debates, questions asked in the Lok Sabha and in Rajya Sabha in the last ten years, policy statements, planning commission reports, notices, reports produced by eminent management institutes like Indian Institute of Management at Ahmedabad, press briefings neither expound or explicate any satisfaction definition or imagination of identity. Amongst these deep abysses of angularity I see mountains of certainty and confidence in so far as public posturing of the government and private sector is concerned. I wonder why is no one asking any questions? Regarding your second point- As far as national id cards hehehe they will give state bit better control and their production,distribution etc will create lot of jobs thus reducing both poverty and insecurity LOL I completely agree with you that an investment in production and distribution will create jobs. But it seems to me that the underlying assumption in this argument is, Government must not shy from investing money, even if it of the tune of 27000 crores, in all exercises which create jobs. If that is so, then being a third world country, being a poor nation where farmers are still committing suicides, where almost six lakh people are still working as manual scavengers, why is our Government not looking at the good of these people who belong to the most vulnerable sections of our society. The question we need to ask with respect to the proposed redistribution of money in favor of all those companies who are going to produce and distribute these unclear measures of identity is: Is this transfer of money just? Is this a just re-distribution? Will the poorest of the poor not get harmed or deprived of what is rightfully theirs by this transfer? What is the opportunity cost of 27000 crores? How can this money be deployed elsewhere to garner greater social capital? Regards Taha On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 2:54 PM, Sandeep wrote: > > Identity poltics can be good time pass or resersch project if the point is > to expose their hollowness without mercy and tolerence of stupidities of > these actors whether oppressed or wannabe oppressed. As far as i think both > oppressed and oppressors when they play identity game they want to change > Supreme opressors, and do nothing about social inequality, democratic rights > etc. In other words every oppressed mniority wants a space where it can > oppress others. Israel and pakistan r great example of this game. > > As far as national id cards hehehe they will give state bit better control > and their production,distribution etc will creat lot of jobs thus reducing > both poverty and insecurity LOL > > Enjoy the spectacle > _________________________________________________________________ > Drag n' drop—Get easy photo sharing with Windows Live™ Photos. > > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/photos.aspx > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From pawan.durani at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 10:03:56 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 10:03:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The evidence of use of Silk Indus Valley ... Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902012033w33b6364dqb639b025937c7be8@mail.gmail.com> http://sites.google.com/site/kalyan97/silk New evidence for early silk in the Indus civilization â€" IL Good, JM Kenoyer, RH Meadow (2009) http://www.scribd.com/doc/11508384/Indussilk The pieces of evidence for silk in Harappa and Chanhudaro are from threads to connect beads or bangle fragments. http://sites.google.com/site/kalyan97/silk/ScreenShot270.bmp?attredirects=0Fig. 3 Copper or copper-alloy wire ornament from Harappa c. 2200 BCE revealing intact thread. Photograph by JM Kenoyer. http://sites.google.com/site/kalyan97/silk/ScreenShot271.bmp?attredirects=0 Fig. 6 Steatite (enstatite) microbead from Chanhu-daro showing slightly 'S' twisted single-ply thread. Photomicrograph by I. Good and R. Newman [Note BC has been changed to BCE; AD has been changed to CE] Silk is an important economic fibre, and is generally considered to have been the exclusive cultural heritage of China. Silk weaving is evident from the Shang period c.1600â€"1045BCE though the earliest evidence for silk textiles in ancient China may date to as much as a millennium earlier. Recent microscopic analysis of archaeological thread fragments found inside copper-alloy ornaments from Harappa and steatite beads from Chanhu-daro, twoimportant Indus sites, have yielded silk fibres, dating toc.2450â€"2000BCE. This study offers the earliest evidence in the world for any silk outside China, and is roughlycontemporaneous with the earliest Chinese evidence for silk. This important new finding brings into question the traditional historical notion of sericulture as being an exclusivelyChinese invention. BACKGROUND The Indus Civilization, c. 2800â€"1900 bce, was one of the great urban riverine civilizations of the ancient world. Current understanding of this cultural phenomenon is that it emerged out of earlier diverse, regional cultures that interacted with each other economically and socially. Settlements of the Indus Civilization spread over a vast area, centred on the Indus and Ghaggar-Hakra river systems of Pakistan and northern India. >From the Himalaya and Hindu Kush to the coastal regions of Kutch and Gujarat, westward into Baluchistan and eastward into northwestern India, sites identified with the Indus Civilization are distributed across an area larger than that of Mesopotamia or of Egypt. Harappa, a settlement near the river Ravi in what is now Punjab Province of Pakistan, was the first of the Indus cities to be discovered (Vats 1940). For more than a century excavations have been carried out in the eponymous city (for a recent overview, see Possehl 2002; see also Kenoyer 1998). The florescence of the Indus culture (2600â€"1900 bce) is sometimes designatedMature Harappa . More than a few enigmas concerning the Indus Civilization still vex archaeologists, not least of which is the lack of substantive evidence for reciprocal exchange of commodities with Mesopotamia, where Indus-produced luxury materials such as etched and long biconical carnelian beads were found in the Early Dynastic III period royal graves at Ur (Zettler and Horne 1998). Recent work at Harappa (e.g., Meadow and Kenoyer 2005, 2008) has been carried out by the Harappa Archaeological Research Project (HARP), directed by Richard H. Meadow (Harvard University), Jonathan Mark Kenoyer (University of Wisconsin at Madison), and Rita P. Wright (New York University) in collaboration with the Department of Archaeology and Museums of the Government of Pakistan. A new study of artefacts recovered from the 1999 and 2000 seasons at the site has revealed the presence of silk. The silk is not degummed but contains sericin-coated twinned brins, or filaments, of fibroin. Micromorphological study indicates that the silk derived from wild silkmoth species rather than Bombyx mori . To assess the culture-historical significance of these new silk finds we take into account several wild silkmoth species known to South Asia, understanding that the real nature and extent of sericulture in antiquity is at present unknown. It has been assumed that the wild ancestor to the Chinese silkmoth, Bombyx mandarina (Moore) was domesticated into the well-known (and only domesticated) insect B. mori in China (Kuhn 1982; Chang 1986), although B. mandarina (Moore) is also native to South Asia. The earliest evidence to date for silk in China comes from an isolated find possibly as early as c. 2570 Bce from the Liangzhou Neolithic site of Qianshanyang (Zhou 1980; see also Vainker 2004; Good, forthcoming). There is evidence for silk from a bead thread at Nevasa in peninsular India c. 1500 bce (Gulati 1961; see also Good 1995; Janaway and Coningham 1995). This new evidence of silk from both the recent excavations at the site of Harappa and from the Chanhu-daro collection curated at the Museum of Fine Arts, Boston, indicates that silk threads were being produced nearly a millennium earlier than the Nevasa finds, and were being used in more than one Indus settlement during the height of Indus urbanism. This new discovery of silk in the Indus Valley pushes back the earliest date of silk outside of China by a millennium and is roughly contemporaneous with the earliest evidence for silk from within China. Not only has early evidence for silk been assumed to be limited to China, but the techniques of degumming and reeling have also been considered exclusive Chinese silk industry 'secrets'. The process of degumming is one in which the sericin gum is removed from the silk, by submerging the cocoons into a weak alkaline solution. Reeling silk is a process by which the long silk strands (gummed or not) are collected on to a bobbin rather than needing to be twisted as short segments into a spun thread. These two important silkworking processes have been thought to be part of a 'package' of Chinese technology known only to China until well into the early centuries ce, although the evidence presented here indicates that wild Antheraea silks were also known and used in the Indus area as early as the mid-third millennium bce, and that reeling was practised. The implication of evidence for silk reeling is that the silkmoth was stifled, leaving the cocoon intact in order to be unravelled. When wild silk cocoons are collected on the ground, usually after the silkmoth has eaten its way out, the remaining silk fibres must be spun rather than reeled, as they are short. Specific contributions of the present paper include discussion of new silk finds from Harappa and Chanhu-daro along with SEM imaging of modern wild specimens of Antheraea assamensis and A. mylitta silk… RESULTS Harappa In the course of excavations on Mound E at Harappa in 1999, a hollow copper or copper- alloy bangle fragment (H1999/8863-2) was recovered from domestic debris that dates to Period 3C (c. 2200â€"1900 cal bce). Preserved fibre forming a thread was found inside the hollow portion of the bangle. The thread samples removed comprise two fragments: one was recovered in disintegrated condition (designated 'A') and the other still retained some thread structure ('B'). These two samples are of the same thread, and are composed uniformly of the same type of fibre. Partial mineralization and fibre disintegration hampered a simple and straightforward identification of thread sample H99/8863-2. The thread itself is a slightly 'S' twisted (at about10°), two-plied thread with approximately 60â€"75 'Z'-spun strands in each ply. Scanning electron micrographic survey at high resolution (1000 magnification and above) of various sites on both sample fragments 'A' and 'B' allowed morphological determination of fibres to be silk, and further determination of silk from the A. assamensis species (see Table 1 and Figs 1 and 2). A second thread sample from Harappa (H2000/2242-1 lab 2000â€"1955) was recovered in the 2000 field season. It was found preserved inside a coiled wire ornament made of native copper or of a copper-alloy that was recovered from debris on the floor of a structure dating to late Period 3A or early Period 3B (c. 2450 cal bce). The ornament appears to be some sort of necklace made up of two strands of coiled wire strung with silk thread. This sample is also of a wild Antheraea silk, but appears to be from a different species, A. mylitta , as it has a distinctive striated fibre (Figs 3â€"5). The particular morphological characteristics of each type of silk are due to the unique shape of the silkworm's orifice when ejecting fibroin during cocooning. In this case, striations are characteristic of A. mylitta silk. These two species are indigenous to South Asia. A. assamensis is found in the high altitudes of the northeastern subcontinent, And A. mylitta is found along the tropical west coastal region. However, both regions are at a considerable distance from the Indus Valley… Chanhu-daro Chanhu-daro is another significant site of the Indus Civilization, located on the west bank of the river Indus in what is now Sindh province of Pakistan. Chanhu-daro was excavated in the winter of 1935â€"36 by the first American Archaeological Expedition to India directed by Ernest Mackay and sponsored by of the American Oriental Society and the Boston Museum of Fine Arts (Mackay 1943). A recent survey of excavated small finds (principally copper or copperalloy artefacts such as razors and bowls) currently in the Boston MFA collections revealed several objects with either textile 'pseudomorph' or actual extant textile adhering to surfaces of objects. One object, a heat-fused cluster of microbeads made of enstatite (heated magnesium silicate, perhaps in the form of steatite) found inside a copper or copper-alloy bowl, had been published in Mackay's report (plate LXXIV, object 2391). The microbeads contained therein (object 2391B) were noted to include intact thread remains (see Figs 6 and 7). The object dates somewhere between 2450 and 2000 bce . Microbead and thread samples from this object from Chanhu-daro were removed and analysed. The thread consists of a single ply of approximately 40â€"50 strands, with a slight 'S' twist (approximately 12â€"15°). Fibres from the thread were studied under SEM at 20 kVwithout sputtercoating. They appear partially gummed and partially twinned, characteristic of a reeled (but not degummed) silk. It is not certain at this stage of research from which species of silkmoth these fibres derived. The fibres may be from A. assamensis or possibly from a species of Philosamia (Eri silk)… DISCUSSION The formal exportation of silk from China took place around 119â€"115 bce during the reign of Han Emperor Wu-ti, who sought the fabulous blood-sweating 'celestial horses' of Ferghana (in modern day Uzbekistan). Yet archaeologists have puzzled over the early presence of silk in a late prehistoric Celtic site in Germany C . 700 bce , as well as silk finds from several other sites in Europe, the Mediterranean, Egypt and Central Asia (see, for example, Richter 1929; Hundt 1971; Askarov 1973; Wild 1984; Braun 1987; Lubec et al. 1993). For decades, archaeologists have cited these findings as evidence for early contact between China and the West (for full discussion see Good 1995; see also Good in press). What has not been adequately considered in the literature, however, is the possibility that a non-Chinese (and de facto wild) species of silkworm that produced workable silk was known and used in antiquity, and that the rare instances of silk that have been discovered far outside of China, and that date to before Wu-ti's trade relationship with the West began, may have, in fact, been produced indigenously or imported from regions other than China. The evidence presented here now suggests that early sericulture did in fact exist in South Asia and was roughly contemporaneous with the earliest known silk use in China. CONCLUSIONS This research offers new insight on the extent and antiquity of sericulture. Specifically, these finds indicate the use of wild indigenous silkmoth species in South Asia as early as the mid-third millennium bce. Careful morphological study of highly degraded fibres through images derived from scanning electron microscopy allows subtle but distinct and diagnostic features of fibre surface and fibre shaft morphology to aid in moth species identification. At least two separate types of silk were utilized in the Indus in the mid- third millennium bce. Based on SEM image analysis there are two thread forms in the samples from Harappa, which appear to be from two different species of silkmoth (Antheraeasp.). The silk from Chanhudaro may be from yet another South Asian moth species Philosamia spp. (Eri silk). Moreover, this silk appears to have been reeled. The variety in type, technology and thread forms of these few rare examples of silk offers us a glimpse into the extent of knowledge about sericulture in the Indus Civilization during the Mature Harappan phase. This knowledge helps to explain other early instances of silk in Eurasia outside of China, specifically from the mid-second millennium bc Deccan Peninsula of India (Gulati 1961) and contemporaneously in Bactria (Askarov 1973). By careful analysis of archaeological silk fibre surface morphology, one can distinguish between the source silkworm species. Through this type of study we can also begin to better understand the origins of silk use further to the East. The discoveries described here demonstrate that silk was being used over a wide region of South Asia for more than 2000 years before the introduction of domesticated silk from China. Earlier models that attribute the origins of silk and sericulture exclusively to China need to be re-examined and revised. NOTE Ages employed in this article for Harappa and Indus Civilization sites are based on calibrated radiocarbon dates, of which more than 100 come from Harappa. Other dates are those current in the literature… Meadow and Kenoyer excavated the Harappa materials and identified samples with threads. Kenoyer conducted preliminary analyses on Harappa threads (the results of which are referred to in Kenoyer 2003, 2004). Meadow and Kenoyer provided Harappa samples to Good, who analysed and identified the threads both from Harappa and from Chanhu- daro. Good wrote the article, with contributions on Indus archaeology from Kenoyer and Meadow, and produced the images and figures, except Figures 3 and 4. [Source: Good, I.L., JM Kenoyer and RH Meadow, 2009, New evidence for early silk in the Indus civilization, Archaeometry, 50,00 (2009), Univ. of Oxford] Some glosses related to silk: See at http://sites.google.com/site/kalyan97/silk From pawan.durani at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 10:04:57 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 10:04:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India has become the " Sponge " that protects West against Terrorism Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902012034u410f29f4vde50a2e531109160@mail.gmail.com> QUOTE: India has become the "sponge" that was protecting the United States and the West from the terror campaign of Lashkar-e-Tayiba and is absorbing most of the blows unleashed by terrorist groups in Pakistan. LeT, which has been blamed for the Mumbai attacks, remains a terrorist organisation of genuinely global reach and represents a threat to regional and global security, second only to Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda. Tellis, a Senior Associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, made these remarks while testifying before the Senate committee on homeland security and governmental affairs on Wednesday on the November 26 terrorist attacks in Mumbai and their consequences for the US. "India has unfortunately become the sponge that protects us all. India's very proximity to Pakistan, which has developed into the epicenter of global terrorism during the last 30 years, has resulted in New Delhi absorbing most of the blows unleashed by those terrorist groups that treat it as a common enemy along with Israel, the United States, and the West more generally," he said. Tellis said the Barack Obama administration should keep Pakistan's feet to the fire and ensure that Islamabad makes good on its promises to take on terrorist groups. Washington should also demand more of Islamabad precisely because the LeT threatens to become a significant global terrorist threat, he said, adding, the US should insist that Islamabad roll up and eliminate the entire LeT infrastructure of terrorism that currently exists inside of Pakistan. Tellis also termed India's response to the Mumbai attack as inadequate and suggested that New Delhi should set up a body on the lines of America's national counter-terrorism centre and take US help. Tellis said since the launch of the global war on terror post 9/11, Inter-Services Intelligence's assistance to LeT has become more recessed but it has by no means ended, even though the organisation was formally banned by then Pakistans president Pervez Musharraf on January 12, 2002. Throwing light on LeT's links with Pakistan's Inter Services Intelligence, Tellis said the terror group has received strong financial, material, and operational support from Pakistan's powerful spy agency -- including from its field stations in Nepal, Sri Lanka, and Bangladesh -- because of the growing conviction within the Pakistan military that the war against India could never be won if the hostilities were to be confined only to Jammu and Kashmir issue . While India has occupied the lion's share of LeT attention in recent years, he said the organisation has not by any means restricted itself to keeping only India in its sights. LeT was from the very beginning a preferred ward of the ISI, enjoying all the protection offered by the Pakistani state, he added. Even when Pakistan, under considerable US pressure, formally banned LeT as a terrorist organization in 2002, the LeT leadership remained impregnable and impervious to all international political pressure. Tellis said it would be a gross error to treat the terrorism facing India, including the terrible recent atrocities as simply a problem for New Delhi alone. In a very real sense, the outrage in Mumbai was fundamentally a species of global terrorism not merely because the assailants happened to believe in an obscurantist brand of Islam but, more importantly, because killing Indians turned out to be simply interchangeable with killing citizens of some 15 different nationalities for no apparent reason whatsoever. UNQUOTE. (http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/jan/29mumterror-nia-will-not-be-able- to-prevent-terror-attacks-says-expert.htm). To watch and listen to the hearings. please click: http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/index.cfm? Fuseaction=Hearings.Detail&HearingID=4bad8b13-1ed8-4ea4-8ed7- 0c020c6205f4 (It takes some time for the video to start). For the text of Ashley Tellis's prepared testimony. please click: http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/_files/012809Tellis.pdf Ram Narayanan US-India Friendship http://usindiafriendship.net/ From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 2 17:38:12 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 04:08:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40902010521v8475c11gaabfb2135d79a319@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <64036.75013.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Taha   You wrote ".... faith in a smart id card to deliver us from all the ill that India is facing right now"   It is your interpretation that it will "deliver us from all the ill". It is sad to see you (a person of research) trivialising arguments that might have been given in favour of the MNIC and misinterpreting them so that you can be sarcasticaly dismissive . You go on to give a  ridiculous analogy of doctor / patient / untested-drug.   Kshmendra   --- On Sun, 2/1/09, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: From: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood To: "Sandeep" Cc: "reader-list at sarai.net" Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 6:51 PM Dear Sandeep Thank you for your response. I find your argument compelling not because of its tone of resignation or because it suggests an epicurean view to engage with the social world but because in your argument I feel an urge to let go the dominant ideas of the day and move on. There is of course nothing wrong in following a line of thinking where one consciously rejects any exercise to interpret dominant ideas in order to generate new forms of meaning instead take these ideas as given and carrying on with one's life. However, in my view and my sensibility as a researcher, which is very limited and limiting field in many ways, I would rather invest as much time and energy as I could in investigating these ideas, while suspending judgment and making new meaning. The reason being, it think, it is a worthwhile time-pass to inquire into the relationship between a man and his environment. This is not to compare it with or negate an epicurean view that you so lucidly suggests but to assert that an inquiry into ideas is not unworthy at all. In this regard if we view our life as a journey in a sea of ideas, the current of identity attracts me the most. This current, must I add, is a strong current, a deep current and a current which seems to be moving a lot of other ideas of this day. From what ever little I have inquired into the origins of this current, I have come up with no clear answer. We as a human race have existed for over five thousand years. Many people have come and gone in this time. Some of them when they were alive took time off from drinking beer to think and reflect on this current of identity. But still we do not have a clear picture as to how this current originated, evolved and turned into this great force which seems to sweeping us all. If there is fundamental conceptual confusion on hand, on the other there seems to be a superficial confidence on part of the national governments and the corporates regarding identity. And it seems that in pursuit of harnessing profit and power they have found two legitimizing arguments- one is poverty and the other is (in)security. We all know how callous any form of power is when it comes to servicing the needs of the most vulnerable sections of a society, hence instead of diverting our money which it takes taxes, to make sure that poorest of the poor get two square meals of food a day, power of the day is indulging in new excuses, like now it wants everyone to be fingerprinted to be identified as its own. What does this tells us-firstly, does power thinks that all of us are criminals? because finger printing till yesterday was only done on criminals and secondly, even after repeatedly carrying out identification exercises for over last one hundred and thirty years, power is not able to either comprehensively conjecture or comprehensively speculate about the nature of identity. I find it amusing as I do not understand why there seems to be so much of faith in a smart id card to deliver us from all the ill that India is facing right now because we do not know what the 'I' in MNIC stands for or what 'id' in a smart id card means. Imagine this- Picture our nation as a body. Now this body is afflicted with twin diseases-poverty and (in)security. Imagine the market (the corporates, the MNC's, the producers and manufacturers) as an expert. Like a doctor. Now this doctor tells the patient to take a drug, in this case, it is a smart id card. The person whose body it is takes this drug trusting the doctor. The doctor takes his fee and scoots off. Now you tell me what will happen to the body, if the drug is made of some known and some unknown chemicals? Will the body react favourably to such a treatment? or Will the body look forward to more such doses? Just think about it. We can always have more conversations on this. Warm regards Taha _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 18:03:21 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 18:03:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] In memory of the Swat valley Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902020433u17446d5dg732ea2c66929ebb@mail.gmail.com> In memory of the Swat valley In memory of the Swat valley In the national interest Monday, February 02, 2009 by Kamal Siddiqi The writer is editor reporting, The News One can only wonder at the statements of high officials like Rehman Malik who says that a "fresh strategy" has been evolved on Swat, under which militants would be flushed out "within weeks." This statement comes some days after the army chief visited the embattled valley where almost every day a school is being blown up and government officials and offices are being targeted. We are told that the army too is changing its tactics. But is there still a chance, or is it too late? Unlike FATA, where few Pakistanis dared to venture, Swat was the place where most of us went at one time or another in our lives. The beautiful river that ran through the valley, the orchids on both sides of the road, even the riverside hotels, were a source of joy for visitors. But now all that is no more, because successive Pakistani governments chose to ignore the threat posed by religious elements, who continued to influence the sentiments of the locals and play up on these people's insecurities. The main hotels of the area are now shut and boarded up. The tourism industry has folded up, leaving thousands out of jobs. Visits to the valley have dried up. Business has been adversely affected. Most important, normal life has come to a standstill. This looks like this is going to be a long-drawn effort, and not the few weeks that Mr Malik promises us it will take. The same Mullah brigade that was routed from the valley because it led many innocent young men to their deaths by taking them to fight in Afghanistan have now made a comeback. They are now calling the shots in many parts of the province. One can only ask why were they allowed to make that come back and what were the circumstances that have forced that change? One has to go no further than the Lady Reading Hospital in Peshawar to hear the tales of woe of the people of Swat and other parts of the NWFP. These are not people who have risen to fight a Jihad against the government, or the Americans. These are ordinary people who were caught in crossfire and forced to flee for their lives, giving up all they owned except the clothes on their back. They are the victims of the war being fought in the valley and in other parts of Pakistan. But there is no one to assist them. While we have cried ourselves hoarse over the atrocities in Gaza, and rightly so, one can only wonder why no one bothers to come and help their Muslim brethren who languish in Peshawar and other towns across the NWFP, lost and scared over what the future holds for them. There are no charity camps. No religious or political parties giving them help or helping their cause. No effective strategy by the government to resettle them. Many end up sleeping on the streets of Peshawar. This unforgivable silence possibly comes from the fact that the people responsible for their misery are also Muslims and Pakistanis. The people are scared to talk. They are not sure who has the upper hand in the Frontier Province. People on the roads of Peshawar are also scared about where they go from here. While the government watches in silence, the barber shops, the schools, the music shops, as well as other symbols of modernity, have started to close down. The government cannot give ordinary people the reassurance that they need. Many of those killed or those lying injured at various hospitals are policemen and government servants, attacked to sent out the message of the impotence of the government. Residents of Swat who have managed to come as far as Karachi say that they are too scared to blame anyone. But it is not only the militants who have shattered their lives - our soldiers too have antagonized people of the Valley and beyond. In some villages around the area, people have set up vigilante groups that vow to keep out not just the Taliban but the army too. While Swat burns, we are lulled into a false sense of security by our leaders. It reminds one of the happenings in East Pakistan. Many of us are still in denial over the role played by religious extremists. Many in Pakistan still hold the view that the Taliban are not anti-Pakistan. But the government has a lot to answer for. Let us start with the illegal FM radio channels that the all powerful PEMRA allowed to operate in the Valley. No action was taken against the operators of these radio stations which preached a warped version of Islam and promoted intolerance and terror. They asked their listeners to drive away people coming to give their children polio drops. The government stood by and watched. The past military government made heroes out of small-time religious clerics by negotiating with them on issues that should have been dealt with through force. Instead of putting a foot down, the military government accepted many of their demands, which further emboldened the militants. Our government made deals which could not be enforced. We got into agreements which could be broken without any fear of punishment. The manner in which the government's machinery worked left a lot to be desired. On many fronts, the militants also won the goodwill of the people by ensuring quick justice on the issue of crimes and settling of disputes. In present-day Pakistan, the two worst arms of the state are the law and order apparatus and the justice system. Policemen are corrupt and harass the poor and the powerless. The justice system is outdated, full of flaws and expensive, with the result that the poor suffer endlessly and in most instances never get the justice they are promised. The religious militant groups know this and as soon as they take over an area, one of the first things they do is better policing and quicker justice—regardless of the flaws in the manner that this is done. Our politicians need to be taken to task. The ANP may have won the name Pakhtoonkhwa for the province, but what else has it been able to achieve? It has shielded itself behind the PPP government in the centre on the issue of dealing with the issue of rising militancy. The NWFP government has remained helpless when it comes to showing initiative in dealing with the political crisis in the province. The deals signed by the ANP and, before it, the military-led government, need to be re-examined. The ouster of one governor and the change in provincial leadership also needs to be explained. The powers that be have made a royal mess of things. The media too also plays a role in glorifying terrorism. Many well meaning but misguided experts try to make sense of the happenings in Swat. Most are not willing to call a spade by its name. There is much talk of this and that. The bottom line, however, is that the takeover of Swat is a wakeup call to Pakistanis. It is time not only to fight terror and extremism but also for the government to work towards a better system of policing and justice. The needs of the people should be addressed, not those of party workers, retired officers, friends and family. The growing frustration in the country, especially amongst the youth, is manifesting itself in many forms. This has also given rise to popularity of extremist groups and thought. People need to see light at the end of the tunnel. Right now there is only darkness. As things stand, this darkness, which started with the FATA region, is now enveloping all parts of Pakistan. (The News) Email: kamal.siddiqi at thenews.com.pk http://letusbuildpakistan.blogspot.com/2009/02/in-memory-of-swat-valley.html From pawan.durani at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 18:15:26 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 18:15:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Swat: Taliban in uniform versus Taliban in civil dress Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902020445q66918dbw577ce894b825aa02@mail.gmail.com> Swat: Taliban in uniform versus Taliban in civil dress Swat: Taliban in uniform versus Taliban in civil dress = 1200 citizens dead; 137 schools blown up Operation Rah-e-Haq is a noora-kusthi (friendly match) of Taliban with Pakistan Army in which low-rank soldiers and ordinary citizens are being used as cannon-fodder. This is the third and final match of the best of three between ISI and their friends. BBC Urdu dot com report: http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2009/01/090131_swat_operations_analysis.shtml Read the following relevant analysis on Grand Trunk Road: http://www.grandtrunkroad.com/2009/02/02/the-swat-operation/ Also read the following report on the insensitivity of the majority of Pakistanis on the situation in Swat: http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/miscellaneous/story/2009/02/090201_baat_se_baat_na.shtml And this report on the insensitivity of media: http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2009/02/090201_swat_media_fz.shtml From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 2 18:49:19 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 05:19:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Is anyone thinking about boycotting Pakistan? In-Reply-To: <716837190901270841x29fc13b4k22f7b7e09d649c8f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <817381.73030.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi there,              I was wondering if anyone on the reader list (besides myself), or any organisations in India are thinking of organising a boycott of Pakistan, or maybe linking up with the international recognitions of Pakistan The Terrorist State........there are a number of sites and webpages with info on Pakistan as an epicentre for promoting/fomenting Terrorism across the Globe and therefore deserving of being boycotted internationally.......it would be also interesting to investigate India's relationship with Pakistan in view of the 'Hate Agenda' against India that Pakistan has been following and continues to follow. Please let me know, many thanks,   Kshmendra --- On Tue, 1/27/09, Zain Rahimtula wrote: From: Zain Rahimtula Subject: [Reader-list] anyone thinking about boycotting israeli goods? To: "sarai list" Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 10:11 PM Hi there, I was wondering if anyone on the reader list (besides myself), or any organisations in India are thinking of organising a boycott of Israeli goods, or maybe linking up with the international solidarity movement (ISM)..there is a site with info on boycottiing Israel.. www.bds-palestine.net (bds stands for boycott, divestment, sanctions)..it would be also interesting to investigate india's relationship with israel, Please let me know, many thanks, Zain _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 20:08:14 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:08:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] An era ends with Ranbir Hooda Message-ID: <6353c690902020638h1c3df453k9d7133d276cde893@mail.gmail.com> *An era ends with Ranbir Hooda Tribune News Service * Rohtak, February 1 A glorious chapter of the Indian democracy came to an end with the demise of Chaudhary Ranbir Singh, a noted freedom fighter and father of Haryana Chief Minister Bhupinder Singh Hooda. He was the lone surviving member of the Constituent Assembly of India. He breathed his last at 5 pm here today after a prolonged illness. He was 94. He will be cremated tomorrow at 3 pm near IMT campus here on the Delhi road with full state honours. Born on November 26, 1914, in Sanghi village of Rohtak district in the family of noted Arya Samajist Ch Matu Ram, Ranbir Singh got his initial education at his village school where he was admitted in 1920 and Gurukul Bhainswal Kalan near Gohana, Sonepat, run by the great Arya Samajist activist and social reformer, Bhagat Phool Singh. After passing his primary examination, Ranbir Singh joined Vaish High School, Rohtak. He passed his matriculation examination from there in 1933. He joined Government College, Rohtak, for higher studies and passed his FA examination from there in 1935. Later, he moved to Delhi and graduated from Ramjas College in 1937. With a dream to do something for the country, he joined the Gandhian army. He actively took part in the Indian freedom struggle and was arrested eight times and jailed for three years and six months. He was detained twice for two years and was imprisoned for his participation in the freedom struggle. Ranbir Singh had a rare distinction of being a member of seven different constitutional bodies. He was the member of the Constituent Assembly from 1947and 1950. He had been a member of the Constituent Assembly (legislative) from 1948-50. He also remained the member of Provisional Parliament from 1950-52 and a member of the first Lok Sabha from 1952-57. He represented the second Lok Sabha from 1957-62 and became a member of the Punjab Legislative Assembly from 1962-66. He also became an elected member of the Haryana Legislative Assembly from 1966-72 and was elected as a member of the Rajya Sabha from 1972-88. He served as Irrigation and Power Minister of Punjab from 1962-66 and as minister (PWD and Health) of Haryana between 1966 and 1967. He remained the deputy leader of the Congress in Rajya Sabha from 1976-77. Ranbir Singh was the founder general secretary of the Bharat Krishak Samaj and the All-India Backward Classes Federation. He remained the working president of the All-India Freedom Fighter's Organisation till his demise. A graduate from Ramjas College (University of Delhi), Ranbir Singh was conferred with an honorary degree of DLitt by Kurukshetra University in 2007. He is survived by his wife Har Devi and sons - Bhupinder Singh, Inder Singh and Dharmender Singh. Two of his sons - Pratap Singh and Joginder Singh - had expired earlier. From indersalim at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 20:39:25 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:39:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice Message-ID: <47e122a70902020709g47d9fac6x4be284809c28f1fc@mail.gmail.com> Dear all Please click the web site by Musaall Mullick, Fiancée of Yasin Malik, the well known 'rebel' leader from Jammu and Kashmir. I think it is interesting. http://mushaalmullick.com/default.aspx I have pasted this link, precisely to see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice. One of Musaall's water colour is titled 'Shame of the Humanity'. It shows a young girl child who deserves all the attention. Yasin Malik has lot of admirers and critic around the world; that applies even to Kashmir valley. Only time will tell us how seriously he grasped the Kashmir issue. Perhaps, this latest step speaks something about his priorities. Certainly, if SAS Geelani, his Hurriyat colleague, was young and going to be married, he would not have chosen a girl like Musaall as his Shareek-e-Hayyat ( better half ), but some one who would prefer to stay behind veil all the time. One of the water colour of Musaall depicts a woman with a Bindi ( predominately used by Hindu women ). What does that mean? It means, a Swat Valley like situation is certainly not Yasin Malik's cup of tea, but something which has a space for freedom, freedom of choice, particularly for women. Only time will tell us whether Yasin's Malik's Safar-e-Azadi will take Kashmir on the path which is meaningful for both Musaall-Malik jodi but People in general as well. There is ray of hope hidden in his choice to wed a painter living in London. Imran Khan, the cricketer-politician did almost similar to that, but failed to mix his choice with his political vision. Will Yasin too follow Imran, or will he let Musaall speak her mind freely ? Kashmir is seriously looking forward to see someone who speaks boldly about the situation of women in J&K. For example, no woman in J&K has any legal rights to retain a square inch of land in case she happens to get married to a non-J&K citizen. That is truly against Women. But slowly, I want Yasin to speak about this issue as well, even at the cost of popularity. No previous govt has dared to speak about this issue. The present Govt in J&K too will never support any idea like that. So, he can outwit them on this account. This is golden chance. Things like that can bring some real changes for a smooth and dignified return of Kashmiri Pandits to Valley. The other issue is environment, which is as serious as Women's issues. I have not gone though his agenda of Safray-Azadi but I wish issues like that are thoroughly woven in his Azadi text. He needs to speak about the need to protect the flora and fauna in J&K, besides a sincere call for a simple living. He needs to talk about the revival of folk arts and other forms of artistic expressions. This I am writing at a time when J&K is entering a special post free election phase for a great good governance. But that is that. We still have KASHMIR ISSUE, staring into our eyes as before. So, when every other intellectual in India is dismissive about Hurriyat who obviously gained nothing by giving Boycott call for Elections; I see them very much there, as significant as ever. Indeed people like me who were victims of 1990 approach to Kashmir Problem, but I believe, that some fresh approach is needed to understand Kashmir. It just happens that Kashmir is a Muslim Majority area, but Kashmir is not a Muslim problem, but a problem similar to Buddhist Tibet. There has to be some inner need to understand the troubles which a line called 'territory' inflicts on us. Why Kashmir was divided. What is LOC after all? I know, there will be lot of angry reaction to this small mail, but I hope some restraint, and cool minded approach. I am truly myself looking for some answers. I don't see a great politician around with some vision to bring a real change in our society, both at grass root level and beyond. Capitalistic and narrow minded politics has ruined our systems of living, and we are left with a situation like in Gaza where Israel is openly killing women and children. Europe and America are silent, which means they are not bothered by Palestine problem as they see it. So, Hamas is bad, even when they have people's support. So, imagine, if tomorrow Hurriyat decides to fight elections in J&K , and if they come to power and declare freedom on the very first day of office, what choice India has? Arrest them there, with head lines against Indian Democracy all over the world. So, is non-participation is a blessing in disguise for Indian Government ? Let us talk to Yasin, more meaningfully, than before. I am talking on my own behalf. With love and regards Inder salim -- From peter.ksmtf at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 23:06:19 2009 From: peter.ksmtf at gmail.com (T Peter) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 23:06:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Withdraw price hike of outboard engines: KSMTF Message-ID: <3457ce860902020936x4eb40404l59c0f2eaf246a7e@mail.gmail.com> Withdraw price hike of outboard engines: KSMTF Express News Service First Published : 01 Feb 2009 10:53:31 AM IST Last Updated : 01 Feb 2009 12:18:28 PM IST THIRUVANANTHAPURAM: The Kerala Swathantra Matsya Thozhilali Federation (KSMTF) has called upon the Central and State Governments to withdraw the price hike of outboard engines used for fishing. Addressing a news conference here on Saturday, Federation president T.Peter said there was an increase of Rs 11,000 to Rs 17,000 based on the horsepower of engines. He said that at a time when the fishing sector was facing crisis owing to the shortage of marine wealth, the price hike of engines would further vitiate the crisis. Peter said that 12.5 percent tax was levied on outboard engines. But only four percent tax is levied on agricultural implements. Though the fisheries sector also comes under the Union Agriculture Ministry, it is not being given sufficient consideration. Peter also said that the tax on outboard engines should also be reduced to four percent to save the fisheries sector. He said that the National Fishworkers Forum and the KSMTF had decided to raise the major issues plaguing the fishing sector during the ensuing Lok Sabha elections and mount pressure on the mainstream political parties. Political parties will have to make clear their stand on giving licence to foreign trawlers, setting up of the Union Fisheries Ministry, Fish Import Policy, coastal protection scheme, special economic zone, special tourism zone on the coastal area, marine protected area, kerosene for fishing purpose and on the rehabilitation of fish workers who were affected by sea erosion. Mass conventions would be held in the coastal States before the Lok Sabha elections to press the demands of fish workers, Peter said. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 23:09:51 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 23:09:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice In-Reply-To: <47e122a70902020709g47d9fac6x4be284809c28f1fc@mail.gmail.com> References: <47e122a70902020709g47d9fac6x4be284809c28f1fc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690902020939s4f8e9555kc8696137e3b4fd9d@mail.gmail.com> *Yasin Malik's link to Pak artist stirs trouble * *The Statesman * *Link - http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php?clid=2&theme=&usrsess=1&id=242384 * JAMMU, Feb 1: Bizarre as it may sound, senior Kashmiri separatist leader Mohammed Yasin Malik's proposed marriage to a Pakistani artist ~ Mushaal Mullick ~ has invited strong criticism from within the Kashmiri separatist camp. Yasin Malik who is in Pakistan these days, is all set to marry Mushaal Mullick who is the daughter of famous Pakistani economist MA Hussain. Her mother Rehana is the former general secretary of Mr Nawaz Sharif's party. Yasin met Mushaal ~ a student of the London School of Economics ~ in Pakistan during a conference. Yasin himself is a prominent leader of the Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front. He came into prominence as a militant in JKLF and underwent training on arms and ammunition in Pakistan based training camps. He has admitted to have killed a group of unarmed Indian Air Force men while they were waiting for their transportation to arrive in period of 1989-1994 in his interview with Tim Sebastian of the BBC. He later surrendered and turned non-violent. Ms Asiya Andrabi, the leader of Kashmir's only all women's separatist organisation Dukhteran-e-Millat (daughters of faith) has opposed this marriage saying that as per Shariyat laws, one can marry only the girls in and around the clan. "If he talks about azadi, Yasin should have married one of the widows who lost their husbands to jihad in Kashmir," said Ms Andrabi. n SNS On 2/2/09, indersalim wrote: > > Dear all > Please click the web site by Musaall Mullick, Fiancée of Yasin Malik, > the well known 'rebel' leader from Jammu and Kashmir. I think it is > interesting. > > http://mushaalmullick.com/default.aspx > > I have pasted this link, precisely to see some meaning in Yasin > Malik's choice. One of Musaall's water colour is titled 'Shame of the > Humanity'. It shows a young girl child who deserves all the attention. > > Yasin Malik has lot of admirers and critic around the world; that > applies even to Kashmir valley. Only time will tell us how seriously > he grasped the Kashmir issue. > > Perhaps, this latest step speaks something about his priorities. > Certainly, if SAS Geelani, his Hurriyat colleague, was young and > going to be married, he would not have chosen a girl like Musaall as > his Shareek-e-Hayyat ( better half ), but some one who would prefer to > stay behind veil all the time. > > One of the water colour of Musaall depicts a woman with a Bindi ( > predominately used by Hindu women ). What does that mean? It means, a > Swat Valley like situation is certainly not Yasin Malik's cup of tea, > but something which has a space for freedom, freedom of choice, > particularly for women. > > Only time will tell us whether Yasin's Malik's Safar-e-Azadi will take > Kashmir on the path which is meaningful for both Musaall-Malik jodi > but People in general as well. There is ray of hope hidden in his > choice to wed a painter living in London. Imran Khan, the > cricketer-politician did almost similar to that, but failed to mix his > choice with his political vision. Will Yasin too follow Imran, or will > he let Musaall speak her mind freely ? > > Kashmir is seriously looking forward to see someone who speaks boldly > about the situation of women in J&K. For example, no woman in J&K has > any legal rights to retain a square inch of land in case she happens > to get married to a non-J&K citizen. That is truly against Women. But > slowly, I want Yasin to speak about this issue as well, even at the > cost of popularity. No previous govt has dared to speak about this > issue. The present Govt in J&K too will never support any idea like > that. So, he can outwit them on this account. This is golden chance. > Things like that can bring some real changes for a smooth and > dignified return of Kashmiri Pandits to Valley. > > The other issue is environment, which is as serious as Women's issues. > I have not gone though his agenda of Safray-Azadi but I wish issues > like that are thoroughly woven in his Azadi text. He needs to speak > about the need to protect the flora and fauna in J&K, besides a > sincere call for a simple living. He needs to talk about the revival > of folk arts and other forms of artistic expressions. > > This I am writing at a time when J&K is entering a special post free > election phase for a great good governance. But that is that. We still > have KASHMIR ISSUE, staring into our eyes as before. So, when every > other intellectual in India is dismissive about Hurriyat who obviously > gained nothing by giving Boycott call for Elections; I see them very > much there, as significant as ever. > > Indeed people like me who were victims of 1990 approach to Kashmir > Problem, but I believe, that some fresh approach is needed to > understand Kashmir. It just happens that Kashmir is a Muslim Majority > area, but Kashmir is not a Muslim problem, but a problem similar to > Buddhist Tibet. There has to be some inner need to understand the > troubles which a line called 'territory' inflicts on us. Why Kashmir > was divided. What is LOC after all? > > I know, there will be lot of angry reaction to this small mail, but I > hope some restraint, and cool minded approach. I am truly myself > looking for some answers. I don't see a great politician around with > some vision to bring a real change in our society, both at grass root > level and beyond. > > Capitalistic and narrow minded politics has ruined our systems of > living, and we are left with a situation like in Gaza where Israel is > openly killing women and children. Europe and America are silent, > which means they are not bothered by Palestine problem as they see it. > So, Hamas is bad, even when they have people's support. > > So, imagine, if tomorrow Hurriyat decides to fight elections in J&K , > and if they come to power and declare freedom on the very first day of > office, what choice India has? Arrest them there, with head lines > against Indian Democracy all over the world. So, is non-participation > is a blessing in disguise for Indian Government ? > > Let us talk to Yasin, more meaningfully, than before. I am talking > on my own behalf. > > With love and regards > Inder salim > > > > -- > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 23:14:38 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 23:14:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice In-Reply-To: <47e122a70902020709g47d9fac6x4be284809c28f1fc@mail.gmail.com> References: <47e122a70902020709g47d9fac6x4be284809c28f1fc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690902020944h15f409at39b79d1322b91ccc@mail.gmail.com> Yasin Malik to marry a racy artist from Pakistan Link - http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=Yasin+Malik+to+marry+a+racy+artist+from+Pakistan&artid=BQ2VatavOs8=&SectionID=b7ziAYMenjw=&MainSectionID=wIcBMLGbUJI=&SectionName=pWehHe7IsSU=&SEO=Yasin%20Malik,%20JKLF,%20Mushaal%20Mullick NEW DELHI : In a match which has stunned Islamic society in India and Pakistan, Yasin Malik and Mushaal Mullick will next month become man and wife. Malik, who is the founder of the Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front has left India for Pakistan where he is expected to marry his racy fiancé next week. He told friendshe was leaving for Pakistan "on a 10-day personal visit to Pakistan. "I will solemnise Nikaah [marriage] in an austere way according to Islamic tenets," he pledged. There is nothing austere about his fiancée however, and questions have been asked over how he reconciles is commitment to Islamic tenets with her risqué art. She specialises in paintings which capture "raw beauty of the feminine mystique," she says, but they would be regarded by many of her fiance's militant comrades as pornographic. In a 'Rose That Left A Thorn Behind,' a passionate Pakistani woman with wild hair is shown naked from the waist up, glancing over shoulder, revealing her breast. In The Forgotten Love, a softer-looking woman stares out of the frame, brushing her cheek with hand, and covering her nipples with her arms. Her paintings may not seem controversial in the West, but in Pakistan where Taliban militants have bombed girls' schools, murdered dancing girls, and destroyed music and video shops in recent weeks, they are explosive. On her website, Mushaal, 28, says she began painting as a child, and her current work reveals a fascination with the striking faces and voluptuous curves of green-eyed Pakistani women. She shows her works at carefully selected exhibitions in the country and donates proceeds of sales to charities supporting women's causes. She comes from a distinguished establishment family in Pakistan, where her father was a university professor and her mother a women's leader of the powerful Pakistan Muslim League. JKLF leader Yasin Malik, 42, is said to have met and fallen in love with Mushaal at a conference in Pakistan. He missed his engagement ceremony last October when he was jailed for agitating for an election boycott. Friends said although he was personally a Muslim, he was not a fundamentalist and his choice of bride was his own personal affair. "The Kashmiri freedom struggle is a political and not religious struggle. Marriageis always a personal decision and one should not mix it up with politics. As far as I know Mushaal is a well-known painter and if she finds her paintings as a way of expression, there is nothing wrong," said Yasin's friend Shahidul Islam, a leader of the All Parties Hurriyat Conference against Indian rule in Kashmir. On 2/2/09, indersalim wrote: > > Dear all > Please click the web site by Musaall Mullick, Fiancée of Yasin Malik, > the well known 'rebel' leader from Jammu and Kashmir. I think it is > interesting. > > http://mushaalmullick.com/default.aspx > > I have pasted this link, precisely to see some meaning in Yasin > Malik's choice. One of Musaall's water colour is titled 'Shame of the > Humanity'. It shows a young girl child who deserves all the attention. > > Yasin Malik has lot of admirers and critic around the world; that > applies even to Kashmir valley. Only time will tell us how seriously > he grasped the Kashmir issue. > > Perhaps, this latest step speaks something about his priorities. > Certainly, if SAS Geelani, his Hurriyat colleague, was young and > going to be married, he would not have chosen a girl like Musaall as > his Shareek-e-Hayyat ( better half ), but some one who would prefer to > stay behind veil all the time. > > One of the water colour of Musaall depicts a woman with a Bindi ( > predominately used by Hindu women ). What does that mean? It means, a > Swat Valley like situation is certainly not Yasin Malik's cup of tea, > but something which has a space for freedom, freedom of choice, > particularly for women. > > Only time will tell us whether Yasin's Malik's Safar-e-Azadi will take > Kashmir on the path which is meaningful for both Musaall-Malik jodi > but People in general as well. There is ray of hope hidden in his > choice to wed a painter living in London. Imran Khan, the > cricketer-politician did almost similar to that, but failed to mix his > choice with his political vision. Will Yasin too follow Imran, or will > he let Musaall speak her mind freely ? > > Kashmir is seriously looking forward to see someone who speaks boldly > about the situation of women in J&K. For example, no woman in J&K has > any legal rights to retain a square inch of land in case she happens > to get married to a non-J&K citizen. That is truly against Women. But > slowly, I want Yasin to speak about this issue as well, even at the > cost of popularity. No previous govt has dared to speak about this > issue. The present Govt in J&K too will never support any idea like > that. So, he can outwit them on this account. This is golden chance. > Things like that can bring some real changes for a smooth and > dignified return of Kashmiri Pandits to Valley. > > The other issue is environment, which is as serious as Women's issues. > I have not gone though his agenda of Safray-Azadi but I wish issues > like that are thoroughly woven in his Azadi text. He needs to speak > about the need to protect the flora and fauna in J&K, besides a > sincere call for a simple living. He needs to talk about the revival > of folk arts and other forms of artistic expressions. > > This I am writing at a time when J&K is entering a special post free > election phase for a great good governance. But that is that. We still > have KASHMIR ISSUE, staring into our eyes as before. So, when every > other intellectual in India is dismissive about Hurriyat who obviously > gained nothing by giving Boycott call for Elections; I see them very > much there, as significant as ever. > > Indeed people like me who were victims of 1990 approach to Kashmir > Problem, but I believe, that some fresh approach is needed to > understand Kashmir. It just happens that Kashmir is a Muslim Majority > area, but Kashmir is not a Muslim problem, but a problem similar to > Buddhist Tibet. There has to be some inner need to understand the > troubles which a line called 'territory' inflicts on us. Why Kashmir > was divided. What is LOC after all? > > I know, there will be lot of angry reaction to this small mail, but I > hope some restraint, and cool minded approach. I am truly myself > looking for some answers. I don't see a great politician around with > some vision to bring a real change in our society, both at grass root > level and beyond. > > Capitalistic and narrow minded politics has ruined our systems of > living, and we are left with a situation like in Gaza where Israel is > openly killing women and children. Europe and America are silent, > which means they are not bothered by Palestine problem as they see it. > So, Hamas is bad, even when they have people's support. > > So, imagine, if tomorrow Hurriyat decides to fight elections in J&K , > and if they come to power and declare freedom on the very first day of > office, what choice India has? Arrest them there, with head lines > against Indian Democracy all over the world. So, is non-participation > is a blessing in disguise for Indian Government ? > > Let us talk to Yasin, more meaningfully, than before. I am talking > on my own behalf. > > With love and regards > Inder salim > > > > -- > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Feb 3 00:44:30 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 19:14:30 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood In-Reply-To: <64036.75013.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <65be9bf40902010521v8475c11gaabfb2135d79a319@mail.gmail.com> <64036.75013.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40902021114g68ac97bbi88ae934087702f8c@mail.gmail.com> Dear Kshmendra I am sorry I could not understand your argument at all. Could you please elaborate as to what it is that you want to convey? I am floored by your acute eye for detail and in applying your analytical faculties in coming to a conclusion that you find my interpretation of arguments concerning MNIC, trivial. Please do not get perturbed because I think as far as the plethora of issues in India is concerned, perhaps it could be argued that MNIC is trivial. There is nothing in wrong in an issue to be interpreted as trivial as long as one can create new imaginations, newer meanings in that triviality. Come to think of it, MNIC in a material sense is nothing but a summation of triviality. The chip which is going to be in the card is a trivial piece of plastic and silicon. The information which this chip contains will be in trivial bytes and bites. The gigantic archive which a national population register will become eventually will be formed of trivial doses of information. Not only that, MNIC will be used for rather trivial purposes like buying a bus ticket or a train ticket or opening a bank account or going to school. I shall not show surprise if a future government issues an order for a MNIC reader to be installed in all auto rickshaws and all our trivial rides in a city is recorded through a reader. Hence perhaps I am not be that off the mark in engaging in a trivial interpretation of MNIC. At the same time I do not think that just because a thing can be imagined as trivial, we must not bother to accord it any seriousness. I think that even in its triviality MNIC presents us with a serious set of questions. I have on my part tried to raise some of the questions that I forsee in the idea of a national identity card. I do not want to argue either in favour or against the introduction of national identity card because I feel that it is a policy matter and as I have said time and again I am not capable to influence any policy. I am interested in the idea of a national identity card. And I would very much like to hear what you think about this idea. Regards Taha From vivek at sarai.net Tue Feb 3 10:13:11 2009 From: vivek at sarai.net (Vivek Narayanan) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 10:13:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] GOOD NEWS. I HAVE FINANLLY MADE IT Message-ID: <4987CB5F.90008@sarai.net> One of the frustrating things about reading 419 scams as literature is that, by definition, the plot never moves forward. Well, at least here's an attempt in that direction. (note also the email address) Vivek -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE GOOD NEWS. I HAVE FINANLLY MADE IT Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 15:13:30 -0000 (UTC) From: Mr.Frank George Reply-To: pastorezekiel at walla.com To: undisclosed-recipients:; My Dear Beloved How are you today? Hope all is well with you and your family? it's me Mr.Frank from Africa. If you have forgotten me, you may have received a mail or proposal from me in the past regarding a business deal which i asked you to assist me claim some fund and which you never cared to reply again. Actually, I m happy to inform you about my success in getting the fund claimed and transferred under the co-operation of a new partner from Monaco. Presently i'm in Monaco for investment projects with my own share of the total sum. Due to your fear an doubthing mind you missed that golden Opportuntiy that comes once in a life time. Now contact my Pastor overthere in africa with the below contact Name;Pastor ezekiel Bell Tel; +229-98 267 088 E-mail ; pastorezekiel at sify.com Ask him to send you the international certified bank draft worth of $600.000.00 (SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND US DOLLARS) which I have already packaged and kept aside for you as a compensation for knowing little or more about the Buisness Deal. This bank draft is cashable in any bank anywhere in the world.I have authorized my Pastor to release the Bank Draft to you whenever you contact him regarding for it. At the moment, I'm very busy here in Monaco because of the investment projects, which I and the new partner are having at hand.Please I will like you to accept this token with good faith as this is from the bottom of my heart,Also comply with my Pastor's directives so that he will send the draft to you without any delay. Therefore, you should send him your full Name and telephone number/your correct mailing address where you want him to send the draft to you. Hoping to hear from you. Mr.Frank George From pawan.durani at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 10:23:19 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:23:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Saving 'Buddha' of SWAT Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902022053l37cbd757y1e152266d61d23bc@mail.gmail.com> [ Note : *Taliban under Fazlullah, have already blew up 1300 year old carving of a seated Buddha cut into a 45 metre high rock face, one of Swat's top tourist attraction.* ] Swat has been inhabited for over two thousand years and was known in ancient times as Udyana. The first inhabitants were settled in well-planned towns. The independent monarchs of this region came under Achaemenid influence, before reverting back to local control in the 4th century BC. In 327 BC, Alexander the Great fought his way to Udegram and Barikot. In Greek accounts these towns have been identified as Ora and Bazira. By 305 BC, the region became a part of the Mauryan Empire. Around the 2nd century BC, the area was occupied by Buddhists, the Indo-Greeks, and the Kushans who were attracted by the peace and serenity of the land. Swat is thought to be the probable birthplace of Vajrayana Buddhism. There are many archaeological sites in the district, and Buddhist relics are common, testimony to their skills as sculptors and architects. The Swat museum has the footprints of the Buddha, which were found in the Swat valley and can now be seen in the Swat museum. When the Buddha died, His relics (or ashes) were distributed to seven kings, who built stupas over them for veneration.. The Harmarajika stupa (Taxila) and Butkarha (Swat) stupa at Jamal Garha were among the earliest stupas of Gandhara. These had been erected on the orders of king Ashoka and contained the real relics of the Buddha. The Gandhara school is probably credited with the first representation of the Buddha in human form, the portrayal of Buddha in his human shape, rather than shown as a symbol. As Buddhist art developed and spread outside India, the styles developed here were imitated. For example, in China the Gandhara style was imitated in images made of bronze, with a gradual change in the features of these images. Swat, the land of romance and beauty, is celebrated throughout the world as the holy land of Buddhist learning and piety. Swat acquired fame as a place of Buddhist pilgrimage. Buddhist tradition holds that the Buddha himself came to Swat during his last reincarnation as the Guatama Buddha and preached to the people here. It is said that the Swat was filled with fourteen hundred imposing and beautiful stupas and monasteries, which housed as many as 6,000 gold images of the Buddhist pantheon for worship and education. There are now more than 400 Buddhist sites covering and area of 160 km in Swat valley only. Among the important Buddhist excavation in Swat an important one is Butkarha-I, containing the original relics of the Buddha Now Swat is under Talibanic forces, all these heritage are sure to become their target, as they are short sighted, fanatics of Islam. USA must help Pakistan at this stage to save Swat in NWFP, which is much inside Pakistan and nowhere near Afghan border, from going to Taliban and Pakistan government should be pressurised by India, USA and other democratic country from world over to save these heritage at ANY cost. I do not know if India's weak foreign policy will be able to execute the required pressure. Note: After I have posted this three days ago, the Taliban under Fazlullah, have already blew up 1300 year old carving of a seated Buddha cut into a 45 metre high rock face, one of Swat's top tourist attraction. Some Pictures of SWAT Buddha http://www.flickr.com/photos/imranthetrekker/1886008018/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/imranthetrekker/1886008018/page2/ Note : The write up belongs to a Pakistani and i have received it from a mail. Somehow I missed the link From aliens at dataone.in Tue Feb 3 10:57:33 2009 From: aliens at dataone.in (bipin) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 10:57:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath References: <006701c98369$3b8cae90$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40901310944i5dfd0c1cpb9da416014037dab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <005901c985c0$1e425b10$0201a8c0@limo> Dear Taha, I don’t know which data you are talking for and not mentioned particular reference. The things you are mentioning is very general applicable to whole India. In the 60 years of Independence, the things improving at very slow rate. Today poverty is 25 % below poverty line which was about 75 % at the time independence. It took 50/55 years for reduction of 50% poverty and major reduction took place after 1991 only when reform started. You can’t expect miracle in 5/6 years. Govt. job is to create opportunity by way of developing infrastructure in the field of Power, Road, Port, Airport which helps in the overall development. This key development was ignored since independence for about 50 years. During Narsimharao rule he took bold step by bringing Mr. Manmohansingh as Finance Minister, a non-politician and started free economy which was necessary to develop competitiveness in the Indian industries. At that time (1992-93) my friends/business ally telling that by cut in import duty Indian industries will die. But, I told them that nothing will happen and with this step Indian industries will grow very well and within 10/12 years Indian industries were capable to buy foreign industries. Rajiv Gandhi has also done good job in the communication field and brought computer age. At this stage also, infrastructure development was not upto the mark, which was started in big scale by Atalji in the field of Road, Power, Airports. Many were arguing why wasting in road to run luxury cars. I replied that 85% roads are used by trucks for transportation and with the improved quality of road transportation becomes chip and ultimately benefited to people only. This infrastructure of Road development running in the fast pace were slowed down drastically when UPA came to power because of communists and Laluji. This infrastructural development should have been started after 5/10 years of independence and in that case India would have been super power by now. But sorry to say that Congress was after vote bank politics only (Particularly from the Indira Gandhi rule. Corruption has also started heavily during her rule) and there policies were decided keeping in the mind of minority vote bank. So, to counter this minority vote bank BJP started vowing major vote bank of Hindu and vicious circle starts. Nuclear agreement with US was intiated by NDA govt. only and I doubt even congress would have thought in this line to do such agreement again minor vote bank politics. However, it was initiated once one has to go on that direction and if Manmohansingh (non-politician, non-congress originally) was not there as PM, it would have not been done. BJP was opposing for some clause of it included on the pressure of US. This agreement was necessary because our nuclear plant producing power was not working without fuel like uranium and to run this plant we require the fuel. So, since 5 years Mr. Modi has concentrated fully in the govt. efficiency, minimize corruption in the govt. dept. and development of infrastructure. No govt. can go to home by home and ask whether you have roti to eat or not. Govt. job is to provide infrastructure in efficient manner which is necessary for overall development. In India we talk about the lack of cleanliness of roads and public places. I do not blame any govt. for this, un-disciplined public is responsible for it. To bring discipline, I think we should make compulsory NCC subject in the college. It was there earlier, but Indira has removed it. Today, if anyone talk to bring NCC back, National anthem/prayer like vandemataram, Surya-namaskar for exercise purpose (its best exercise) or any such type, but the so called pseudo-secularist come in the media to oppose it with the argument that you are forcing Hinduism. They are not real secular, but worry for their vote bank. These are all steps bring discipline and nationality (not Hinduism). I remember when Atalji became PM, I wrote one letter to him with suggestions like: The reservation policy benefit can be given to those family having family planning (2 children) or at the most 3 children. I got just one line answer: Thanks. Good suggestion, we think over it. I gave this suggestions to one my friend in the congress also, but he told that no one like to lose back-word class votes by applying this, though its good suggestion. Vote bank politics is biggest hindrance in India to grow healthily. No time now today. I welcome your suggestion. Bipin Trivedi ----- Original Message ----- From: Taha Mehmood To: Rakesh Iyer Cc: bipin ; sarai-list Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 11:14 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath Dear Bipin Thank you for sharing a counter petition which argues in favor of Narender Modi. It appears that you have followed Mr. Modi's administration rather closely over the last many years. If that is so then could please explain to me the existence of a view that half of the population of Gujarat is suffering from malnutrition, anemia and low body mass index. You shall have my respect Sir!! if while replying if you could kindly let go of all the well rehearsed arguments in favor of Modi or RSS or BJP, or resorting to wrongs of others to justify Mr. Modis actions because two wrongs do not make a right. However taking a cue from your petition, I want to state that even as an administrator Mr. Modi is grossly inefficient. What matters to me is this- Mr. Modi was given a responsibility, a constitutional responsibility, to take care of his people. If we follow the data given by the FCI and other government bodies then it appears that he has failed badly in providing basic, fundamental amenities like do waqt ki roti, to the very 5 crore Gujarati, in whose name he garnered votes. Hence I do not understand that while he could not even manage five crore Gujaratis in the last seven years, how could he manage 100 crore Indians even for an hour. Warm regards Taha http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/half-of-vibrant-gujarat-goes-to-sleep-empty-stomach/401073/ Half of Vibrant Gujarat goes to sleep empty stomachGaurav SharmaPosted: Dec 21, 2008 at 0355 hrs ISTAhmedabad Despite tall claims on paper, cases of malnutrition,anaemia, low body mass index abound in state "It is with the core value of the Right to Food that the Gujaratgovernment's Food, Civil Supplies and Consumer Affairs Department setsits mandate," this is the government's claim. But, according to various reports, the state's Public Distribution System (PDS) is in ashambles.On paper, much hyped schemes like the Anand Smart Card Project,Roaming Ration Card, Food Fortification, Grahak Bhandar Yojana, Food Helpline and others may appear to be in place. Despite this, almosthalf of Gujarat's six crore population is hungry.For its part, the state government has issued nearly 89.58 lakh AbovePoverty Line (APL) cards and 35.51 lakh Below Poverty Line (BPL) cards. In the latter category, about 8.10 lakh cards fall under theAntyodaya Anna Yojna (AAY), which caters to the poorest of the poor.So, in all, nearly 1.33 crore ration cards have been issued in thestate to ensure the availability of wheat, rice, sugar and kerosene to the poorer sections of society at highly subsidised rates.This means that ideally, the system should work like this— the FoodCorporation of India (FCI) issues the PDS quota to Gujarat at asubsidised rate, which in turn further subsidises it for BPL and AAY cardholders. APL citizens get no subsidy and have to pay the marketprice of their share of PDS. The food goes from the nationalwarehouses to the state warehouses where it is checked, fortified andthen distributed to Fair Price Shops (FPS). Ration cardholders then pick up their quota from there.But, as the state government itself has admitted, the PDS in Gujarathave come to be known for hoarding, profiteering, poor quality,adulteration, overpricing and under weighing. The FCI allots less than the required PDS quota to Gujarat and the government doesn't evenbother about it. It keeps itself busy converting more and more BPLcards to APL, apparently to showcase its efforts at improving thehunger situation in the state, at least on paper. Also, bogus cards are made at will and the PDS quota is diverted tothe open market using these. This happens at both the levels of theCivil Supplies Department and the Fair Price Shops. With absolutely nochecks on the FPS, these functions as autonomous bodies and are the major source of resource diversions. Such is the situation now thatnumerous public hearings, suo motto cognizance by the Gujarat HighCourt and various RTI applications have failed to bring about anychange. Gujarat's Minister for Food and Civil Supplies Narattam Patel couldnot be contacted for comments.Alarmingly hungry* According to International Food Policy Research Institute's 2008Global Hunger Index, Gujarat is ranked 69th along with Haiti, the nation infamous for food riots. The state is placed in the 'alarming'category.* The M S Swaminathan Research Foundation has identified urban Gujaratas 'moderately food secure' while rural Gujarat remains 'severely insecure.'* The National Family Health Survey III (NFHS-III) conveys that 42.4per cent of children in Gujarat are suffering from stunted growth dueto malnutrition. Also, about 47.4 per cent of children are underweight in the state.* NFHS-III also points out that more than half of Gujarat's populationis Anaemic, with a percentage as high as 80.1 for children aged 6-35months.* NFHS-III further states that nearly one-third of adults in Gujarat have their Body Mass Index (BMI) below the normal, 32.3 per cent forwomen and 28.2 per cent for men.System in a shambles but the government is in denialSC overruled* The Supreme Court had ordered on November 28, 2001 and January 10, 2008 to provide 35 kg food grains — 19 kg wheat flour and 16 kg rice —to the poorest of the poor under the Antyodaya Scheme. But the Gujaratgovernment in its resolution dated March 24, 2008 decided to provide16 kg rice and 16.7 kg wheat fortified flour * The government deducts 2.3 kg from the entitlement of 19 kg andpasses it on to the flour mills as the cost of fortification. So,flour mills get the benefit of 24,647 tons of wheat annually at thecost of poorest of the poor Poor distribution systemPublic hearings in 2008 against injustices abounding in the PDS* 900 people attend a hearing organised by the Lok Adhikar Manch(supported by Action Aid) on April 30 at Anjar, Kutch. * 1,300 people attend a hearing organised by Lok Adhikar Manch on July2 at Khavda in Kutch* 1,150 people attend a hearing organised by Sarthi (supported byAction Aid) on November 21 at PanchmahalsCommon grievances recorded * Large scale diversion of PDS food grains* Irregular identification and distribution of ration cards* False and fake entries on ration cards* Fair Price Shops (FPS) open for less than two weeks in a month against the stipulated 24 daysSorry state of affairs* The National Council for Applied Economic Research (NCAER), NewDelhi, finds in a survey that nearly 11, 53,000 ghost/fake BPL cardshave been issued in Gujarat * An ORG-Marg report commissioned by the Centre reveals that inGujarat, about 41 per cent of rice slotted for the poor is beingdiverted* According to the state government, the Centre allots food grainsonly for 21.20 lakh families as against the 35.51 lakh BPL families, a gap for nearly 14.31 lakh families. Still, the Ministry of ConsumerAffairs, Food and Public Distribution confirms in reply to an RTIapplication that 'No representation is received from any MP, MLA, CMor Minister regarding the supply of food grains to Gujarat since the last one year.'* An analysis report dated December 26, 2007 of the Public HealthLaboratory, Ahmedabad Municipal Corporation, confirms live insects,high quantity of chaff in 18 samples of fortified wheat flour supplied by FPS at various districts in Rajkot, Panchmahals, Dahod, Dwarka andJamnagar. It is deemed unfit for human consumption.* The FCI admits in a reply to an application filed under the Right toInformation Act that nearly 73,814 tons of food grains have been damaged in Gujarat and Maharashtra over the past decade From anansi1 at earthlink.net Tue Feb 3 05:46:59 2009 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul Miller) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 19:16:59 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Understanding Islam through Virtual Worlds findings: "Elevating humanity's most distinguishing feature: The Imagination." References: <878e6ce80902021310k715bc897oc1b3899b7c22645e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I just thought I'd forward this. They're quite into creating more dialog. Paul Begin forwarded message: > From: "Joshua S. Fouts" > Date: February 2, 2009 4:10:46 PM EST > To: "Joshua S. Fouts" > Cc: "Rita J. King" > Subject: Understanding Islam through Virtual Worlds findings: > "Elevating humanity's most distinguishing feature: The Imagination." > Reply-To: josh.fouts at gmail.com > > Dear friends and colleagues: We are pleased to share the below with > you > > Findings from Understanding Islam through Virtual Worlds Project > "Elevating humanity's most distinguishing feature: The Imagination." > > February 2, 2009 -- After a year of research across the Internet and > four continents, Dancing Ink Productions' Rita J. King and Joshua S. > Fouts, senior fellows at the Carnegie Council for Ethics in > International Affairs, have released the findings from the > Understanding Islam through Virtual Worlds project. The project was > funded by a grant from the Richard Lounsbery Foundation. > > The findings include a trilogy of actionable reports including > policy recommendations on the potential use of virtual worlds for > digital diplomacy to be submitted to the Obama Administration; a > mini broadcast quality documentary produced in collaboration with > Ill Clan Animation Studios; and a graphic book chronicling the > journey. By releasing three versions of the report Fouts and King > hope to make accessible what is still a very new medium. Digital > versions of the findings can be found here: http://dancinginkproductions.com/?page_id=80 > . > > "With this report, Josh and Rita have illuminated a new path–a > definite intelligible plan–for practical public diplomacy in an area > of supreme urgency. Furthermore, they have done so by elevating > humanity's most distinguishing feature: the imagination," said Joel > Rosenthal, President of the Carnegie Council for Ethics in > International Affairs. > > The idea for Understanding Islam through Virtual Worlds project was > hatched with a very specific idea in mind: How could people learn > about other cultures in an authentic, experiential space -- > specifically, how could they learn about cultures that self- > identified as Muslim? King and Fouts chose Second Life for many > reasons, among them that it is the best international platform -- > more than 70% of its users are from outside the United States. > Their goal was to to see what they could learn about Islam -- not by > inviting particular people with particular perspectives into Second > Life, but rather to follow the trail of what was already happening > culturally in the space that might yield new insight about Islam. > > "Belief systems overlap now in ways that would have been unthinkable > millennia ago when many of the conflicting ideas still governing > human behavior today were created, but immersive virtual > environments offer the perfect medium for assessment of concepts of > self and community," Rita J. King told the audience at the Carnegie > Council. "It is not just a good medium, passable amid a sea of other > equally effective options. It is the perfect medium, at least as an > initial training ground to teach the digital culture how to engage > in difficult and sensitive conversations involving real-world > challenges in the complete absence of any possibility of physical > violence or even any trace of intimidation. Additionally, virtual > environments offer a deeper level of candor, which is necessary for > true understanding." > > "Earlier this week, President Barack Obama launched the first public > diplomacy campaign of his presidency by granting his first > international interview to a non-US satellite television news > station, Al Arabiya," said Joshua S. Fouts in his January 29, 2009 > remarks at the Carnegie Council for Ethics in International > Affairs. "In doing this he effectively went over the leaders of the > Middle East and spoke to the people. 'All too often,' President > Obama said, 'the United States starts by dictating ... so let's > listen.'" > > This project at its foundation is about storytelling which is about > understanding something new about the human condition. Public > Diplomacy, Cultural Diplomacy or Strategic Communication as it is > also known, are efforts by governments, NGOs, and civil societies to > tell their story to foreign publics. Too often public diplomacy is > criticized for being too preachy and not listening. With this > project, Fouts and King listened to, and documented the narratives > of, people from all over the physical world who either practice > Islam, or want to further understand those who do. > > Digital copies of all of the Understanding Islam through Virtual > Worlds reports can be downloaded here:http://dancinginkproductions.com/?page_id=80 > > For more information, see DIP's Dispatches from the Imagination Age: www.eurekadejavu.com > and the Dancing Ink Productions homepage: www.DancingInkProductions.com > . > > ### > > -- > -- > Joshua S. Fouts > Senior Fellow, Carnegie Council for Ethics in International Affairs; > Senior Fellow, Digital Media and Public Policy, The Center for the > Study of the Presidency > Chief Global Strategist > Dancing Ink Productions, LLC > e: josh at dancinginkproductions.com > w: dancinginkproductions.com > b: www.eurekadejavu.com > skype: josholalia > Visit our blog: "Dispatches from the Imagination Age" www.eurekadejavu.com From rajeshr at csds.in Tue Feb 3 15:44:18 2009 From: rajeshr at csds.in (Rajesh Ramakrishnan) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 15:44:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] `Commemorating Hurt: Memorialising Operation Bluestar'; Radhika Chopra, CSDS, Feb 11 Message-ID: Wednesday, 11th February, 2009 Radhika Chopra will speak on Commemorating Hurt: Memorialising Operation Bluestar at 2:30 PM in the Seminar Room, CSDS, 29 Rajpur Road, Delhi – 110 054 The storming of the Darbar Sahib at Amritsar by the Indian army in June 1984 has become a commemorative event in the ritual calendar of the Gurdwara. Memorialised every year in June, Ghallughara Dihara (Day of Genocide) telescopes the modern event with medieval Sikh history. The remembrances of Bluestar and its martyrs are primarily viewed as an anti-state ritual, evoking the devastation of the Akal Takht as the hurt remembered. But over time ritual performances have altered the meaning of memorialising, subtly discounting the pre-eminence of particular Khalistani leaders killed in the army action, telescoping them within the generalised category of martyrs. Within Darbar Sahib celebrations a sense of a restoration of "order" and divine authority embodied in the Akal Takht prevail over the memory of charismatic leaders who were central to the movement for Khalistan. Ritual enactments among the Sikh Diaspora in London link continued claims for political asylum and rights of residence with political persecution in the 'homeland'. Radhika Chopra studied at the University of Delhi. She has co-edited "South Asian Masculinities: Contexts of Change, Sites of Continuity"(2004); and guest edited a special issue of the journal Men and Masculinities, "Muted Masculinities: Contemporary Indian Ethnographies" (October 1 2006, Volume 9). She is currently working on issues of militancy and migration in Punjab. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Feb 3 16:01:35 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:31:35 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath In-Reply-To: <005901c985c0$1e425b10$0201a8c0@limo> References: <006701c98369$3b8cae90$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40901310944i5dfd0c1cpb9da416014037dab@mail.gmail.com> <005901c985c0$1e425b10$0201a8c0@limo> Message-ID: <65be9bf40902030231p62cc4e76t2610d577e6ab39a@mail.gmail.com> Dear Bipin Thank you for your response. The data, I think, which the Indian express article refers to, is gleaned from a variety of sources like the National Health Survey, NCAER , MS Swaminathan Research foundation and Lok adhikar manch. I appreciate your citation of all the macro data and let me say that I agree to your interpretation in most of the cases. However I do not think that Gujarat or any other state could mirror national averages in every aspect. All I was asking was this- Mr. Modi seems to have this image about efficiency and 'getting the work done' attitude. There was a view expressed in the IE article which seems to going against this image. Your petition makes an attempt to argue for an efficient administrator image of Mr. Modi. Hence in this respect, I was wondering how would you respond to the view articulated in the IE article. All you have to do is cite any data from these organization or other organizations like NSSO or State planning Commission that either challenges this view or negates it solely on the basis of some evidence. That's all. We are not talking about roads, railways, national employment figures, or nuclear policy or any such thing. We are not talking about macro terms like Nation or India's image etc. In this case we are just talking about Mr. Modi administrative skills and efficiency in handling three things- cases of malnutrition,anaemia, low body mass index. We are talking about these indexes solely with respect to Gujarat. We are not interested in what WB govt's position is or Kerala's position is, or Maharastra's position is on these three indexes. Let us for the sake of Mr.Modi concentrate on Gujarat only. The reason why we must do this exercise and not compare with other states is because there is a view that for the RSS and the Hindu right Gujarat is a laboratory. What happens in Gujarat in so far as the Hindutva politics go, does not happen anywhere in India. So if Mr. Modi has managed to first grab and then cling to power from a political strategy which is unique, I think, it is only fitting as a mark of respect to this uniqueness that we must judge his administration and his skills uniquely. Regards Taha From aliens at dataone.in Tue Feb 3 16:33:36 2009 From: aliens at dataone.in (bipin) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 16:33:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath References: <006701c98369$3b8cae90$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40901310944i5dfd0c1cpb9da416014037dab@mail.gmail.com> <005901c985c0$1e425b10$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40902030231p62cc4e76t2610d577e6ab39a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000901c985ef$0ff34950$0201a8c0@limo> Dear Taha You are absolutely misunderstood, this time Modi was reelected not for Hindu plank, he was elected solely on development plank. Now voters become smart and look macro way of development which is good sign. That's why congress since last many years loosing their ground and need other party support to rule, since their vote bank politics plank is not working. If congress will does some real development work, than they will also win. e.g. In Delhi Sheila Dixit has won this time again. There is no Hindutva laboratory as you think theses are all media creation and if RSS think on that direction they are doing mistake. RSS is a honorary organization known for their services and remain present wherever there is national calamities/disaster. However, in this new era there thinking might found outdated to major youngsters. May be one or two article printed contrary, but there are so many articles printed of praising of Modi. You will find many such articles in Times of India and Gujarat/Mumbai Gujarati papers/magazines. thanks Bipin Trivedi ----- Original Message ----- From: "Taha Mehmood" <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> To: "bipin" Cc: "sarai-list" Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath > Dear Bipin > > Thank you for your response. > > The data, I think, which the Indian express article refers to, is > gleaned from a variety of sources like the National Health Survey, > NCAER , MS Swaminathan Research foundation and Lok adhikar manch. > > I appreciate your citation of all the macro data and let me say that I > agree to your interpretation in most of the cases. However I do not > think that Gujarat or any other state could mirror national averages > in every aspect. > > All I was asking was this- Mr. Modi seems to have this image about > efficiency and 'getting the work done' attitude. There was a view > expressed in the IE article which seems to going against this image. > Your petition makes an attempt to argue for an efficient administrator > image of Mr. Modi. Hence in this respect, I was wondering how would > you respond to the view articulated in the IE article. All you have to > do is cite any data from these organization or other organizations > like NSSO or State planning Commission that either challenges this > view or negates it solely on the basis of some evidence. > > That's all. > > We are not talking about roads, railways, national employment figures, > or nuclear policy or any such thing. We are not talking about macro > terms like Nation or India's image etc. In this case we are just > talking about Mr. Modi administrative skills and efficiency in > handling three things- > cases of malnutrition,anaemia, low body mass index. > > We are talking about these indexes solely with respect to Gujarat. We > are not interested in what WB govt's position is or Kerala's position > is, or Maharastra's position is on these three indexes. Let us for the > sake of Mr.Modi concentrate on Gujarat only. > > The reason why we must do this exercise and not compare with other > states is because there is a view that for the RSS and the Hindu right > Gujarat is a laboratory. What happens in Gujarat in so far as the > Hindutva politics go, does not happen anywhere in India. So if Mr. > Modi has managed to first grab and then cling to power from a > political strategy which is unique, I think, it is only fitting as a > mark of respect to this uniqueness that we must judge his > administration and his skills uniquely. > > Regards > > Taha From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 3 16:53:44 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 03:23:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Yasin Malik - The Jihadi Terrorist Message-ID: <530361.98951.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> This is for those (especially the Indians) who continue to speak for and on behalf of Yasin Malik, The Jihadi Terrorist.   As recently as 22nd August 2008, Yasin Malik was in (telephone) discussions with the Jihadi Terrorist, Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, founder of 'Lashkar - e - Taiba' (LeT) and then the  Ameer of Jama'at-Ud-Da'wah.   QUOTE FROM REPORT 1: On August 22, Kashmiri separatist leader Yasin Malik and Saeed had agreed to cooperate on the Kashmir issue.   Saeed had then said that Pakistan's rulers might "have their own limitations and constraints" but the Jamat-ud-Dawah had "no constraints whatsoever and would go to the last limits in helping our Muslim brothers". UNQUOTE http://www.kashmirwatch.com/showkashmir.php?subaction=showfull&id=1219924327&archive=&start_from=&ucat=17&var1news=value1news     QUOTE FROM REPORT 2: Kashmiri separatist leader Yasin Malik on Friday spoke to militant outfit Lashker-e-Taiba founder Hafiz Muhammad Saeed and they agreed to cooperate with each other in their activities in Jammu and Kashmir.   They agreed on this course of action when Saeed spoke to Malik on telephone, said a statement issued by Jamat-ud-Dawah, a group set up by Saeed after the Pakistan government imposed a ban on the LeT. UNQUOTE http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/aug/22amar6.htm     Yasin Malik, in agreeing to 'co-operate' with Hafiz Muhammad Saeed (LeT + Jama'at-Ud-Da'wah) would certainly be aware of his Jihadi Terrorism ideology. Yasin Malik has agreed to 'co-operate' with that Jihadi Terrorism ideology. The ideology can be recognised in the following:   QUOTE Last year (2007), at a February 5 function in Lahore, Lashkar chief Hafiz Muhammed Saeed declared that the “jihad in Kashmir will end when all the Hindus will be destroyed in India.” And soon after Shah delivered his talk to the Jamaat-ud-Dawa, Lashkar commander Nasr Javed told the audience that the “jihad will spread from Kashmir to other parts of India [and] Muslims will be ruling India again.” UNQUOTE http://www.hinduonnet.com/2008/02/27/stories/2008022754171000.htm     There is a Nov 2005 report of Yasin Malik and Hafiz Muhammad Saeed being together at a meeting:   QUOTE Saeed said that love for Kashmir and its people was a part of faith for Pakistanis. .......... “Through Yasin Malik, the whole Pakistan is Kashmir and whole Kashmir is Pakistan.”   Nawai Waqt Editor-in-Chief Majid Nizami said, “I have heard that Malik is a jihadi-minded person and I pray to Allah to strengthen his jihad.”  ................ Nizami said, “I am convinced that Kashmir can be freed through jihad.....”The Nawa-I-Waqt editor said the government was labeling jihad as “militancy” because it feared George Bush, otherwise the rulers did not oppose it. UNQUOTE http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2005%5C11%5C07%5Cstory_7-11-2005_pg7_19     Kshmendra                       From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 3 16:54:26 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 03:24:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice Message-ID: <776819.99479.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Inder Salim   You are playing advisor to and policy strategist for Yasin Malik a self-admitted murderer. Yasin, who amongst others led (post 1947) the introduction of Islamic Terrorism into Kashmir. Yasin who ostensibly eschewed the path of violence, yet continued to have links with Terrorist Organisations. Yasin the Terrorist.   Kshmendra  --- On Mon, 2/2/09, indersalim wrote: From: indersalim Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice To: "reader-list" Date: Monday, February 2, 2009, 8:39 PM Dear all Please click the web site by Musaall Mullick, Fiancée of Yasin Malik, the well known 'rebel' leader from Jammu and Kashmir. I think it is interesting. http://mushaalmullick.com/default.aspx I have pasted this link, precisely to see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice. One of Musaall's water colour is titled 'Shame of the Humanity'. It shows a young girl child who deserves all the attention. Yasin Malik has lot of admirers and critic around the world; that applies even to Kashmir valley. Only time will tell us how seriously he grasped the Kashmir issue. Perhaps, this latest step speaks something about his priorities. Certainly, if SAS Geelani, his Hurriyat colleague, was young and going to be married, he would not have chosen a girl like Musaall as his Shareek-e-Hayyat ( better half ), but some one who would prefer to stay behind veil all the time. One of the water colour of Musaall depicts a woman with a Bindi ( predominately used by Hindu women ). What does that mean? It means, a Swat Valley like situation is certainly not Yasin Malik's cup of tea, but something which has a space for freedom, freedom of choice, particularly for women. Only time will tell us whether Yasin's Malik's Safar-e-Azadi will take Kashmir on the path which is meaningful for both Musaall-Malik jodi but People in general as well. There is ray of hope hidden in his choice to wed a painter living in London. Imran Khan, the cricketer-politician did almost similar to that, but failed to mix his choice with his political vision. Will Yasin too follow Imran, or will he let Musaall speak her mind freely ? Kashmir is seriously looking forward to see someone who speaks boldly about the situation of women in J&K. For example, no woman in J&K has any legal rights to retain a square inch of land in case she happens to get married to a non-J&K citizen. That is truly against Women. But slowly, I want Yasin to speak about this issue as well, even at the cost of popularity. No previous govt has dared to speak about this issue. The present Govt in J&K too will never support any idea like that. So, he can outwit them on this account. This is golden chance. Things like that can bring some real changes for a smooth and dignified return of Kashmiri Pandits to Valley. The other issue is environment, which is as serious as Women's issues. I have not gone though his agenda of Safray-Azadi but I wish issues like that are thoroughly woven in his Azadi text. He needs to speak about the need to protect the flora and fauna in J&K, besides a sincere call for a simple living. He needs to talk about the revival of folk arts and other forms of artistic expressions. This I am writing at a time when J&K is entering a special post free election phase for a great good governance. But that is that. We still have KASHMIR ISSUE, staring into our eyes as before. So, when every other intellectual in India is dismissive about Hurriyat who obviously gained nothing by giving Boycott call for Elections; I see them very much there, as significant as ever. Indeed people like me who were victims of 1990 approach to Kashmir Problem, but I believe, that some fresh approach is needed to understand Kashmir. It just happens that Kashmir is a Muslim Majority area, but Kashmir is not a Muslim problem, but a problem similar to Buddhist Tibet. There has to be some inner need to understand the troubles which a line called 'territory' inflicts on us. Why Kashmir was divided. What is LOC after all? I know, there will be lot of angry reaction to this small mail, but I hope some restraint, and cool minded approach. I am truly myself looking for some answers. I don't see a great politician around with some vision to bring a real change in our society, both at grass root level and beyond. Capitalistic and narrow minded politics has ruined our systems of living, and we are left with a situation like in Gaza where Israel is openly killing women and children. Europe and America are silent, which means they are not bothered by Palestine problem as they see it. So, Hamas is bad, even when they have people's support. So, imagine, if tomorrow Hurriyat decides to fight elections in J&K , and if they come to power and declare freedom on the very first day of office, what choice India has? Arrest them there, with head lines against Indian Democracy all over the world. So, is non-participation is a blessing in disguise for Indian Government ? Let us talk to Yasin, more meaningfully, than before. I am talking on my own behalf. With love and regards Inder salim -- _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 3 17:45:27 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 04:15:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "Truckling to the Taliban" (siome plainspeaking for Pakistan) Message-ID: <133047.79477.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Increasingly, the world over, voices are being raised against the duplicitous nature of Pakiostan. The 'SSSSsssshush, let us not criticise them, they are our allies on the War on Terror' seems to be giving way to 'Pakistan, we have had enough of your trying to make fools out of us in your greed for doles'   While some Indians continue to be apologists for Pakistan and Terrorists (from Pakistan or from within India), by and large the people of India too seem to be unwilling to give Pakistan any more the benefit of any doubt when it comes to Pakistan being the supporter/promoter of Terrorism directed into India alongwith it being the epicentre of Global Terrorism. One hopes that the current plainspeaking is not being resorted to only as advance Electioneering.   Peter Preston does some plainspeaking too.   ( truck⋅le = to submit or yield obsequiously or tamely )     Kshmendra     "Truckling to the Taliban" -Peter Preston   (Pakistan's 1.4m military shies away from fighting the extremists. It must show whose side it's on)   Listen, for far in the distance one can hear the sound of a great tin cup rattling. The president of Pakistan tells the newest president on the block (via the Washington Post) that his country could be "the most critical external problem" facing the US. And he wants "aggressive, innovative action" against the forces of darkness. But for Pakistan to defeat the extremists, it must be stable - and economically viable. So give us the money, and necessary military hardware, too. Then together we can try to do something about Afghanistan and our collapsing region - your slightly desperate friend, Asif Ali Zardari.   Well, that's the story of the last 30 years - perhaps even the basic story of Pakistan's short existence. Hang tight with whoever happens to be in the White House and hope that he delivers enough goods to keep us afloat. But now, perhaps, there's a new answer building. Ask not what the US treasury can do for you - ask, rather, what you can do for America. And, first, ask Pakistan's million-plus military. (Immediately deployable men, 650,000; plus 350,000 paramilitary, and reservists and reserve reservists, making 1.4 million in a crisis - the seventh biggest national defence total in the world.)   Turn those big figures inside out. Short of resources to fight the Taliban inside Pakistan as Nato's secretary general rattles his own tin cup? Anxious, if you're Obama, to wind down Iraqi deployments so you can bring critical mass to bear from Kabul to Helmand to the long, infinitely porous border with Pakistan? Then look at the troops already there or thereabouts on the ground.   Factor in some of Zardari's millions. "Unlike in the 1980s, we are surrogates for no one," he writes. "We need no lectures on our commitment. This is our war. It is our children and wives who are dying."   Very well. Then follow the logic and match his pretty desperate assertion against 60 years of war and constant tension. Pakistan's army is the largest, most omnipresent political player in the country. Four of its leaders have doubled as military dictators - rivalling mere elected politicians in time served at the top. The army, in that sense, is effectively a political party itself, seizing power when the quasi-democrats fail and relinquishing it when their popularity begins to run dry. And, within that neat game of pass the power parcel, there are well-oiled wheels within wheels. Retired top brass don't go home to the Punjab and sit on their porches: they run corporations, found factories, open carpet emporiums and travel agencies. In sum, they accumulate nice little earners, wrapped safe by the nest-feathering activities of previous army generations. Putting on the braid is one of the best insurance policies in the world.   And who - as America pours in more billions of dollars - is the main enemy here? Not those involved in "our war, where women and children are dying". No, as always, the alleged enemy is India, with Kashmir as casus belli. Military intelligence specialises in shadowy manoeuvres involving Kabul (where Indian influence is a supposed threat). Army deployment concentrates along the border with India, supposedly ready for any attack.   But it's irrelevant now. Nuclear weapons on both sides has made it irrelevant. And see how the puppet masters pull the strings. An attack in Mumbai leaves carnage in its wake. India prepares to react. Islamabad orders its Afghan frontier forces to head east to another frontier fast. Implied message: you can have one proper line of defence, but not two. There's an obvious answer to that.   Pakistan's president is right. "This is our war" being waged now and increasingly lost - not just on the Afghan border, but right through the North-West Frontier, where extremists can shut the Khyber Pass for days. So why shouldn't Obama make a totally fresh offer? Withdraw from the borders with India. We Americans will give all the guarantees necessary, plus some international troops on the ground to make that stick. And this, Mr Zardari, means you can flood the other border with your own surge. Instead of abandoning the Swat Valley and shrugging, you can take it back. Instead of truckling to the Taliban, you can do your own dirty work properly - and show, once and for all, whose side you're on.   What's the use of a 1.4 million military if it can't or won't fight the war it has on its hands? What's the use of feeding a beast with no will to win? Maybe Helmand and the rest need more troops as those who are there go on dying - but, over that lethal, open border, there's a mighty army busy doing not very much. Time for it to get on - or time for us to get out, and take our billions with us.   • p.preston at guardian.co.uk   guardian.co.uk © Guardian News and Media Limited 2009   http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/feb/02/peter-preston-taliban-terrorism-military-pakistan                    From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Feb 3 18:00:55 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:30:55 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40902030348k5f16002by866cd3ba21a41081@mail.gmail.com> References: <006701c98369$3b8cae90$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40901310944i5dfd0c1cpb9da416014037dab@mail.gmail.com> <005901c985c0$1e425b10$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40902030231p62cc4e76t2610d577e6ab39a@mail.gmail.com> <000901c985ef$0ff34950$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40902030348k5f16002by866cd3ba21a41081@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40902030430k4ca827e1w729d1f34b89252e0@mail.gmail.com> Dear Bipin I take your word that this time Modi did not use HIndutva as an election strategy. This time the strategy it seems was more self aggrandizing. The 'Chappan ke Chaati', 'Maut ke Saudagar' or the 'Modi Masks' and so on. Modi's rhetoric was also carefully crafted to include the audience. There were reports about he used a uniquely christian strategy of catechisms to involve the audience. For instance how would ask a question, where do you think Lord Ram was born? The audience would reply in unison- Ayodhya. Then Mr. Modi would lampoon Congress, to the effect that- you, the common people of Gujarat know the answer to this question but those who are born in Italy and who now run our country think that Ram is a mythical figure. The audience will burst out laughing. It is also reported that each local RSS handlers were assigned a row of audience. They were given a list of all the questions and answers in advance and when when Mr.Modi spoke everybody in the audience was ready for an engaging drama. Where was 'development' in this strategy? If Mr. Modi is an efficient chief minister then why is it that more three crore people are dying of hunger in his state or are suffering from malnutrition and low body mass index. Regards Taha From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Feb 3 18:12:57 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:42:57 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-83 Message-ID: <65be9bf40902030442r30d3a003u302073d1277b3ac4@mail.gmail.com> http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2006/07/17/stories/2006071700340900.htm Business Daily from THE HINDU group of publications Monday, Jul 17, 2006 Continent going hi-tech on identity Mohan Murti Most European countries plan to switch to electronic cards (e-ID), which incorporate electronic signatures and biometrics. A driver that is pushing European governments into e-ID cards is the battle against identity theft. It was Roland Moreno, a Frenchman, who three decades ago, invented the Smart cards — plastic cards with microchips embedded in them. They were ignored by the US and the UK, but spread across the Continent, and the Far East, with massive roll-outs in banking, transport, insurance and healthcare sectors over the last quarter century. In modern Europe, the daily use of ID cards in railway stations and post-offices is ubiquitous. If anything, they make the queues move faster. Most view them with benign indifference. One by one, over the last century, the governments of most European Union member-states have taken the decision to introduce ID cards. View from Europe Over 400 million people across Europe, in 21 out of the 25 EU member-states, use ID cards. In only five countries currently — Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, Greece and Spain — are ID cards mandatory. Even in these nations, citizens do not have to carry them at all times. Only the Netherlands has made them obligatory since January as a response to the threat of terrorism and illegal immigration. In Austria, Finland, Italy, Luxembourg, Portugal, Sweden, Norway and Switzerland they are voluntary though people tend to carry them because they find them convenient. In France, carrying ID card is voluntary, but is to become mandatory, to enable combat terrorism and illegal immigration. In the EU only Latvia, Denmark, Ireland and the UK have no ID cards. European ID cards are as of now paper or simple plastic cards with a magnetic strip. But all countries are planning to switch to electronic cards (e-ID), which incorporate electronic signatures and biometrics — fingerprints and/or facial and iris images. There are external pressures on European countries to make their ID cards electronic and biometric. The Schengen Treaty gives the right to the citizens of the Schengen countries to travel between them without passports. Most of these countries are upgrading their ID cards to double as travel documents, a function that ID cards did not have before. One European standard, already in operation, is Eurodac, a pan-EU system for checking up on asylum-seekers using fingerprints, so that they do not claim asylum in more than one country at the same time. This has already claimed successes in foiling fraudulent asylum applications, but is understandably not much publicised. Access to e-Transactions Many European countries see in e-ID cards an extension of the traditional policing purposes into something more positive: Giving the citizen secure access to e-government transactions. Belgium allows people to file tax returns only via their e-ID card. A driver that pushes European governments into e-ID cards is the battle against identity theft. They put their trust in the extra security given by the combination of an electronic signature with two biometric identifiers, face and fingerprint. This, they hope, will protect the citizen from the spammers, scammers, hackers out there in the Internet jungle. Hi-Tech Plans The British government has hi-tech plans for identity cards using the biometric technology. A legislation proposes a system of ID cards that will carry biometric identifiers in an embedded chip and be linked to a secure national database to be created by 2010. The government is working to make the ID cards compulsory for everyone living in the UK by 2011-12. The national database would hold personal information for each person carrying the ID card, such as name, address and biometric information including fingerprints and facial and iris scans. Crucial is the database that will eventually be linked to the EU's proposed registration programme. The European Commission has introduced regulations to use fingerprints and facial images on visas and resident permits for non-EU nationals. The biometric data is then stored on national and EU databases that are accessible through the Schengen Information System. The database is the key aspect of the system. What the UK government is proposing is quite unique and, of course, vast. A number of European countries, including Belgium and Latvia, have ID cards with links to information database, but those are used primarily as an entry to e-services, whereas the British plan is primarily about law and order. The biometric ID cards are a powerful weapon in any government's fight against identity fraud, illegal workers, illegal immigration, and terrorism. Technology In Belgium, the system has been useful in fighting illegal immigration. The police can just stop anyone on the street and ask for their ID. If you're in the country and you can't produce a card or some form of identity, then you're illegal. German officials also believe that the recent inclusion of biometric data has enhanced national security. EU smart card The ID card, the passport and the driving licence are being replaced by smart cards. In Italy, the new "documents" look like credit cards. Personal information is stored in an "optical memory strip" and in a microchip. Individuals have the option of including health and financial information on the card's digital record. The plan is that the cards will have multiple functions. The new Spanish model is billed as the world's first Internet ID card. The first one will be issued early next year. By sticking the card into a reader attached to a computer, people will be able to apply for a passport from home or do other official business with the state or local administration. In Germany, from 2007 onwards, new ID cards are likely to include a digital photo of the holder as well as fingerprints. In Belgium, a new card includes a smart chip with the holder's digital signature and an authentication certificate. It will let Belgians access many government services. Safeguarding Privacy Simply stated, Europe has done a fantastic job of safeguarding privacy. One major difference is that unlike in the US, European countries do not use anything akin to a Social Security number as a ubiquitous identifier. Navigation We live in a time of global uncertainty with an increased threat from international terrorism and organised crime. From recent experiences, it is apparent that the enemies of India are within India. We, therefore, must legislate and quickly introduce an identity cards scheme for every Indian and a compulsory registration scheme for non-Indians, to support the continuing fight against terrorism. (The author, a former Europe Director of the CII, lives in Cologne, Germany. Feedback may be sent to mohan.murti at t-online.de) From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Feb 3 18:16:12 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:46:12 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-84 Message-ID: <65be9bf40902030446t6a8f5c87tad814a6c9d5729fe@mail.gmail.com> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/programmes/andrew_marr_show/7757215.stm BBC NEWS / ANDREW MARR SHOW 10:12 GMT, Sunday, 30 November 2008 Into conspiracy theory territory On Sunday 30 November, Andrew Marr interviewed Jacqui Smith MP - Home Secretary Please note 'The Andrew Marr Show' must be credited if any part of this transcript is used. The Home Secretary Jacqui Smith answers claims that the Conservative MP Damian Green was bugged. Jacqui Smith MP - Home Secretary ANDREW MARR: We've already spoken this morning about the horrific evidence in Mumbai and we've talked as well just now of course about that controversy over the arrest of the Conservative front bencher Damian Green. Now these are both matters for the Home Secretary, Jacqui Smith, who also has a raft of new measures from binge drinking to prostitution coming up in the next session of Parliament and she's with me now. Thank you indeed for coming in. Could we start with the terrorist issue because it's been widely said that this was a new kind of attack in Mumbai. This was not a long planned bombing, but this was a widespread raid of people who ran amuck with machine guns. Does that mean that we have to in this country revise the way that we've been thinking about potential attacks? JACQUI SMITH: Well, I mean the first thing to say is that you know this is clearly a very serious event in India. Our condolences of course go to those who've been killed and injured as part of it. Our first priority is to support both the Indian authorities and our nationals who have been involved in it. But yes, of course, we do need to look in terms of our own work on terrorism at whether or not and what lessons need to be learnt. We of course need to revise the very important work that we do on protecting our crowded places, our country as a whole from terrorism, to bear in mind any lessons that we learn from this and we will do that. But what it also of course identifies is what we have said, which is: We face a serious and sustained threat from terrorism, that is an international threat, it impacts potentially both on British nationals overseas and also on our interests and our country as well. ANDREW MARR: Now we don't think at this stage, do we, that there were British nationals involved in the terrorist group despite some earlier reports? JACQUI SMITH: Some of the earlier suggestions about this have actually been retracted. But we will of course need to look in detail... ANDREW MARR: Early days. JACQUI SMITH: ...at what actually happened, yeah. ANDREW MARR: We have very close contacts with Pakistan. If it turns out that this was a Pakistani based group, does that make Britain more vulnerable than we thought even before? JACQUI SMITH: Well the first priority I think is that we are clear about, and the Indian authorities are clear in their investigations, about what happened. Incidentally, I think it does create a test for what has been a warming of relations between India and Pakistan, which is fundamental to us in helping to protect us and them from terrorism. It's important that that is maintained and it's carried forward on a calm basis. But you know I mean actually we have always argued that we face a serious and sustained threat from terrorism in this country and that it has international links. That's part of the reason why our work, for example our longer term work to prevent people from turning to terrorism in the first place needs to operate both within the UK and internationally in third countries that we have important links with. ANDREW MARR: We have never seen an attack quite like this before though. I mean it must presumably mean quite a serious review of how we, you know we think about terrorist attacks because this is unlike anything else; it could happen here? JACQUI SMITH: Well what we do know is that international terrorism is able to develop, to evolve its threat and that therefore we need to evolve our response. We will look very carefully at the implications of this type of attack for our ability to be able to respond. It's in order that we're able to do that, that we have of course significantly increased the resource that we're devoting to terrorism. It's why we're in the process now of reviewing our counter-terrorism strategy. It's why we will look and we have already started to look at potential implications for our ability to be able to protect our infrastructure, our people in this country as well. ANDREW MARR: Let's turn to the other issue that sort of follows from that, I suppose, which is ID cards because you have made the case again and again that we need ID cards to help us against terrorism and that has been widely contested. At the moment the trials of ID cards seem, to put it politely, pretty thin. There's a very small number of people involved, there aren't government scanners which would allow proper information to be taken. Isn't this the moment - we're facing a huge economic problem, everybody presumably in government has been asked to look again at their budgets - to actually say okay, hands up, it's time to put this on ice, save a lot of money and turn to more traditional ways of combating terrorism? JACQUI SMITH: No. I mean first of all, Andrew, we have started just this week issuing ID cards to foreign nationals, you know so there is progress and this is a programme that is delivering. Secondly... ANDREW MARR: And you're going to carry on with it? JACQUI SMITH: Yes, we are going to carry on with it. Secondly, we have always said not that ID cards are the answer to terrorism, but frankly when the Al Qaeda training manual tells people; potential terrorists, that one of the things they should try and do is to get multiple identities, I think there is a link between actually enabling people to tie their identity to themselves and our battle against terrorism - secondly. And, thirdly, on the cost, you know let's be quite clear about this. Firstly, we've been extremely open about the ten year cost of ID cards. Secondly, that cost has come down as we've developed the scheme. And, thirdly, anybody - opposition politician or otherwise - who suggests that there is a large amount of money to be found in this scheme is frankly wrong. 70% of the money is actually required anyway to develop biometric passports. I hope there's nobody suggesting that we should be completely out of step with the rest of the world by not developing those. And the rest of it - one, will bring considerable benefits; and, two, will be covered by fees, as of course passport costs frequently are. ANDREW MARR: Well let's turn to the other big story in today's papers. Damian Green, an honourable opposition politician doing his job, holding your government to account finds nine anti-terrorist officers inside his house, ransacking every aspect of his private life - letters between his wife and himself. His daughter comes home in floods of tears to see this going on. Do you think before we start on any of the details that you owe Mr Green an apology? JACQUI SMITH: Well now let me be clear. Any police investigation that involves an investigation of a senior political figure or an elected representative, as incidentally we've seen in other investigations in recent years, is highly sensitive and decisions need to be taken very carefully about it. But let's just, I think, also take a step back and remind ourselves where this investigation started. It is not an investigation into whether or not opposition politicians use information that they receive to embarrass or hold to account the Government. That is a complete legitimate activity - it has gone on, it should go on, it will go on. This is an investigation, it started as an investigation of a systematic series of leaks from a department that deals with some of the most sensitive and confidential information in government. A systematic series of breaches of security, effectively. And the idea that my Permanent Secretary or the Cabinet Secretary would not have been concerned about this, I think is frankly unbelievable. ANDREW MARR: And yet given what happened to Mr Green - I come back to it - and given what happened to his family, do you not think you owe him an apology? JACQUI SMITH: Well you know what we appear to be being asked... ANDREW MARR: The answer seems to be no. JACQUI SMITH: Well what we appear to be being asked to do by former home secretaries, by the Leader of the Opposition is to intervene in a specific investigation being carried out by the police who you know actually I... ANDREW MARR: So this kind of stuff's alright? JACQUI SMITH: No, wait a minute. Who I do believe, when they start an investigation should, as they have said they need to, follow the evidence where it takes them. Now I started, Andrew, by saying that I think when it's an investigation that involves senior politicians and elected representatives, as others have, that it's extremely sensitive and decisions need to be taken very carefully. But frankly... ANDREW MARR: So the four leaks that were being discussed, which one of those was to do with national security? JACQUI SMITH: Wait a minute, Andrew. There are four leaks that are in the public arena. The point is that this started as an investigation into a systematic series of leaks about which of course it wasn't clear what had been leaked and what may not have been leaked. So the fact that something is in the public domain doesn't mean that those are the only leaks that have gone on. ANDREW MARR: Well a leak tends to be... That's the definition of a leak, I would have thought, that it's in the public domain. JACQUI SMITH: Well actually... ANDREW MARR: But moving on from that, when did you know... Let's start right at the beginning. Who initiated the original leak inquiry? JACQUI SMITH: Well that was initiated by the Cabinet Office alongside my Permanent Secretary because, as I say, you know actually breaches of security from a department that deals with some of the most confidential and sensitive information in government... ANDREW MARR: And you knew right from the beginning? JACQUI SMITH: ...are important. ANDREW MARR: You knew right from the beginning? JACQUI SMITH: I knew that there was a leak inquiry. I knew that there was an investigation. ANDREW MARR: And did you yourself ask for a leak inquiry? JACQUI SMITH: I did not ask for it myself. ANDREW MARR: Did any other minister ask for it that you're aware of? JACQUI SMITH: No. ANDREW MARR: Right. When your civil servant was arrested on 11th, you presumably knew about that? JACQUI SMITH: Yes. ANDREW MARR: Did you know about that in advance? JACQUI SMITH: I knew that there was an investigation going on in advance and I knew that there was likely to be action taken against one of our officials in advance, yes. ANDREW MARR: Right. That was on 11th November. When did you, when you were told that Damian, or indeed a Conservative front bencher, was the subject of a police investigation? JACQUI SMITH: I was told about the search and about the arrest after it had happened. ANDREW MARR: What about my original question, which is when did you know that he was the subject of the investigation? JACQUI SMITH: Well I didn't know specifically who was the subject of the investigation. And incidentally, Andrew... ANDREW MARR: Sorry, did you know... JACQUI SMITH: ...nor do I... No, I'm saying I didn't... ANDREW MARR: It's quite important. I know, but did you know that a Conservative MP was being investigated before the arrest of Damian Green? JACQUI SMITH: No because what I think is important here is that actually the police are able to use their professional judgement to pursue an investigation. And, frankly, you know there have been a lot of charges thrown around here - the idea that you know this is Stalinism, this is a police state. In my book, Stalinism and a police state happens where ministers direct and interfere with specific investigations that the police are carrying out. And I have been very clear that in my view the police should have operational independence, they should be able to pursue investigations in the way in which their professional judgement suggests. I don't know what evidence they are looking at. ANDREW MARR: So... JACQUI SMITH: Incidentally, neither do any of the other people that are commenting. And I do think it is important that if you believe in the principle of operational independence for policing, you believe in that even when they are difficult and sensitive investigations. ANDREW MARR: So you knew nothing about an opposition front bencher going to be arrested by counter-terrorism police and it's right that as Home Secretary you knew nothing? JACQUI SMITH: No, I think it is right that I knew that there was an investigation going on. I did not know before the arrest that that particular front bench spokesman or any front bench spokesman was about to be searched and arrested. But actually what I think is right is that once the investigation is underway and the police are pursuing and gathering detailed evidence and using their professional judgement as to where that goes, that politicians shouldn't interfere in that detailed operation. ANDREW MARR: Damian Green... JACQUI SMITH: That's the view that I take. ANDREW MARR: Damian Green clearly believes that he was bugged - that his BlackBerry was bugged, his phone was bugged. Now if that was the case, you would have had to have approved that, wouldn't you? JACQUI SMITH: If that were the case, I would have signed a warrant. ANDREW MARR: Did you sign any such warrant? JACQUI SMITH: Andrew... No. Andrew... ANDREW MARR: Sorry, I just... these are quite important questions. JACQUI SMITH: Well because I'm sorry, Andrew, home secretaries don't confirm or deny which warrants they have or have not signed. But, frankly, you know let me be clear about this, we are getting totally into conspiracy theory territory here. ANDREW MARR: So you didn't sign such a warrant? JACQUI SMITH: Totally into conspiracy theory territory. ANDREW MARR: You didn't sign such a warrant. As a politician, do you think it is appropriate that on a matter like this, which is about leaks, embarrassing leaks - they may be to do with public security but so far they've just been embarrassing leaks - that a politician, senior politician doing his job has his house invaded by nine anti-terrorist police who then hold him for hours and hours, who then go into the House of Commons, breaking parliamentary privilege and do the same thing there - surely as a politician, you can't approve of this? JACQUI SMITH: Andrew, you have made a series of assertions about what this investigation is about. Now frankly, Andrew, you don't have the evidence that the police are looking at at the moment. Neither do I. Let me... ANDREW MARR: So it's a lot more serious than we know, is it? JACQUI SMITH: Well let me... Well you know the point is that let me remind us where we started. This was about a series of breaches of security in a department that deals with some of the most confidential and sensitive information across government - a systematic series of leaks. I think it is right that investigation should happen there. What I've also said, and I started by saying this, is that you know this is not about politicians being able to use information that they come across to hold the Government to account, even to embarrass the Government. That is and should always be able to happen. But you know to return to where this investigation started, the idea that the senior Civil Service or myself as Home Secretary would not be concerned about the operation of our department given the series of leaks that we face, I think would have been wrong. ANDREW MARR: Alright. One last go. I think a lot of people watching will be very, very surprised, given what has happened to Mr Green and his family, that you do not feel able to apologise to him. JACQUI SMITH: Well what I've said to you, Andrew, is that if you believe in the operational independence of policing, if you believe that the professional judgement of police officers during the course of an investigation should be able to take its course, well you believe that even when things are tricky and sensitive. The idea that you charge into impact on operational independence when things get a bit hot is not a principled position. I believe in the principle of the operational independence of policing and that's what I'm carrying out. ANDREW MARR: Let me ask you about binge drinking, which is going to be probably the centrepiece of some of what you're announcing in the Queen's Speech. We've had lots and lots of initiatives about binge drinking over the years. This is another one. Why is this one going to work when the others haven't? JACQUI SMITH: Well can I just say first of all on the Queen's speech, there will be a series of measures that are about actually ensuring that the rules we live by in this country are fair, that we're on the side of those people who are law abiding. There is a particular issue about drinking that we will want to take action on and that's to say whilst we've seen crime linked to alcohol actually coming down by a third over the last ten years, there is still concern about alcohol-linked crime and disorder. You know I don't think any of us want to have our city centres with people you know lying on the pavements and being sick. All of us have a responsibility, therefore, to take action on that. That is additional support for the police, which we will provide, and it's also saying that industry has to take a responsibility alongside that as well. Which is why what we'll be looking at is how we can strengthen the standards that we expect, particularly around irresponsible promotion of alcohol. We've consulted on whether or not that should be in the form of a mandatory code. I think it should be mandatory in terms of certain conditions around licensing that focus on the most irresponsible forms of promotion of drink. ANDREW MARR: Do you not think that this government in relaxing the licensing laws in the first place is partly responsible for what's happened? JACQUI SMITH: Well actually the evidence doesn't suggest that. It suggests actually that since the Licensing Act, there have been effectively an unchanged level of incidents related to alcohol. But I think what we do know is that people are concerned about both irresponsible promotions of drink and the impact of that, yes, on people's health, also on crime and disorder, and that's why... And also as well they're concerned about the impact on young people. So those are the areas that we want to focus our efforts on. ANDREW MARR: So to be clear, can you stop for instance two for one drink promotions, women drink free - all of those kind of things that people have been talking about? JACQUI SMITH: I think those are the things that we should be saying, you know, are unreasonable. Incidentally, the industry had a set of voluntary standards that should have helped us to make progress on those. We asked for an independent review of those voluntary standards, which suggested that really they weren't being implemented in the way in which they should do. That's why we will now bring forward proposals for mandatory conditions on everybody, whether on the on trade or the off trade off-licences or pubs and bars, supermarkets who sell alcohol to stop some of those most irresponsible promotions. You know and I think you've identified some of them - the idea that you pay a set price and drink as much as you can for the evening; the idea that if you're a woman and you go into a bar, you get to drink free; the idea that you might be running sort of games or promotions that actually encourage people drinking. And incidentally other things like you know making sure smaller glasses are available alongside larger glasses. ANDREW MARR: Alongside the big ones. Alright. For now, Jacqui Smith, thank you very much indeed for joining us. INTERVIEW ENDS Please note "The Andrew Marr Show" must be credited if any part of this transcript is used. NB: This transcript was typed from a recording and not copied from an original script. Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy Andrew Marr Show From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 3 18:46:02 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 05:16:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40902021114g68ac97bbi88ae934087702f8c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <674470.47441.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Taha   No problem. I will rephrase what I tried to convey.   Before doing that, I must admit to my guilt. My ability to express myself in English does not match your understanding of the language.   But, perhaps Taha you could be a bit considerate and patiently make an effort to understand what is being said. The same consideration and patience that at least I, if not others too, show towards the profusion of postings from you on the very important topic of MNICs.   No, I will not state or argue that the issue of MNIC is 'trivial'. So I am ignoring your subsequent lecture taking off from ' MNIC in a material sense is nothing but a summation of triviality'. That is your philosophical take on it. You are welcome to it.    Nor do I find 'trivial' your arguments about MNIC.     What I tried to convey in my last post was that you 'trivialised' the discussion by making a comment that is not befitting of a 'person of research' that you are. Since you seem to be confused, I will restate it; you did not 'trivialise' the topic of MNIC but you 'trivialised' the discussion on it. I will explain   Your comment that I am referring to  "I find it amusing as I do not understand why there seems to be so much of faith in a smart id card to deliver us from all the ill that India is facing right now ........."   Who's position is it that "...a smart id card (will) ..deliver us from all the ill that India is facing right now"? ALL THE ILL???? Who has said that the MNIC will deliver us from 'all the ill that India is facing right now?   By attributing such a position to those who might be in favour of the MNIC, you misrepresent (and misinterpret) arguments. Thereby you trivialise the discussion and also inject falsity into your research.   I called ridiculous your analogy of "doctor / patient / untested-drug" because of the same unsubstantiated above comment of yours. The premise on which the the analogy was put forward did not exist. So the analogy was inapt.   There are those who speak in favour of having a MNIC and how it will be beneficial in various spheres. Then there are those who question the efficacy of the MNIC. Only an idiot will argue or state that the MNIC will "deliver India from all ill" and only an idiot will argue or state that the MNIC will be of no benefit at all.   I can understand and appreciate your fears about the MNIC in terms of  ' abuse of privacy'; 'possibilities of abuse by the State'; ' expenditure outlay that could be better directed' as well as 'questions about establising identity or erasing identity'. Unfortunately, I am not competent or knowledgeable enough to engage with you on these issues. Others on this List are and will. Some already have brainstormed with you over the philosophy of 'identity'.   Kshmendra --- On Tue, 2/3/09, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: From: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Cc: "reader-list at sarai.net" Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 12:44 AM Dear Kshmendra   I am sorry I could not understand your argument at all. Could you please elaborate as to what it is that you want to convey? I am floored by your acute eye for detail  and in applying your analytical faculties in coming to a conclusion that you find my interpretation of arguments concerning MNIC, trivial.   Please do not get perturbed because I think as far as the plethora of issues in India is concerned, perhaps it could be argued that MNIC is trivial.   There is nothing in wrong in an issue to be interpreted as trivial as long as one can create new imaginations, newer meanings in that triviality. Come to think of it, MNIC in a material sense is nothing but a summation of triviality. The chip which is going to be in the card is a trivial piece of plastic and silicon. The information which this chip contains will be in trivial bytes and bites. The gigantic archive which a national population register will become eventually will be formed of trivial doses of information. Not only that, MNIC will be used for rather trivial purposes like buying a bus ticket or a train ticket or opening a bank account or going to school. I shall not show surprise if a future government issues an order for a MNIC reader to be installed in all auto rickshaws and all our trivial rides in a city is recorded through a reader. Hence perhaps I am not be that off the mark in engaging in a trivial interpretation of MNIC. At the same time I do not think that just because a thing can be imagined as trivial, we must not bother to accord it any seriousness. I think that even in its triviality MNIC presents us with a serious set of questions. I have on my part tried to raise some of the questions that I forsee in the idea of a national identity card. I do not want to argue either in favour or against the introduction of national identity card because I feel that it is a policy matter and as I have said time and again I am not capable to influence any policy. I am interested in the idea of a national identity card. And I would very much like to hear what you think about this idea.   Regards   Taha    --- On Mon, 2/2/09, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: From: Kshmendra Kaul Subject: Re: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood To: "Taha Mehmood" <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> Cc: "reader-list at sarai.net" Date: Monday, February 2, 2009, 5:38 PM Dear Taha   You wrote ".... faith in a smart id card to deliver us from all the ill that India is facing right now"   It is your interpretation that it will "deliver us from all the ill". It is sad to see you (a person of research) trivialising arguments that might have been given in favour of the MNIC and misinterpreting them so that you can be sarcasticaly dismissive . You go on to give a  ridiculous analogy of doctor / patient / untested-drug.   Kshmendra   --- On Sun, 2/1/09, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: From: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood To: "Sandeep" Cc: "reader-list at sarai.net" Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 6:51 PM Dear Sandeep Thank you for your response. I find your argument compelling not because of its tone of resignation or because it suggests an epicurean view to engage with the social world but because in your argument I feel an urge to let go the dominant ideas of the day and move on. There is of course nothing wrong in following a line of thinking where one consciously rejects any exercise to interpret dominant ideas in order to generate new forms of meaning instead take these ideas as given and carrying on with one's life. However, in my view and my sensibility as a researcher, which is very limited and limiting field in many ways, I would rather invest as much time and energy as I could in investigating these ideas, while suspending judgment and making new meaning. The reason being, it think, it is a worthwhile time-pass to inquire into the relationship between a man and his environment. This is not to compare it with or negate an epicurean view that you so lucidly suggests but to assert that an inquiry into ideas is not unworthy at all. In this regard if we view our life as a journey in a sea of ideas, the current of identity attracts me the most. This current, must I add, is a strong current, a deep current and a current which seems to be moving a lot of other ideas of this day. From what ever little I have inquired into the origins of this current, I have come up with no clear answer. We as a human race have existed for over five thousand years. Many people have come and gone in this time. Some of them when they were alive took time off from drinking beer to think and reflect on this current of identity. But still we do not have a clear picture as to how this current originated, evolved and turned into this great force which seems to sweeping us all. If there is fundamental conceptual confusion on hand, on the other there seems to be a superficial confidence on part of the national governments and the corporates regarding identity. And it seems that in pursuit of harnessing profit and power they have found two legitimizing arguments- one is poverty and the other is (in)security. We all know how callous any form of power is when it comes to servicing the needs of the most vulnerable sections of a society, hence instead of diverting our money which it takes taxes, to make sure that poorest of the poor get two square meals of food a day, power of the day is indulging in new excuses, like now it wants everyone to be fingerprinted to be identified as its own. What does this tells us-firstly, does power thinks that all of us are criminals? because finger printing till yesterday was only done on criminals and secondly, even after repeatedly carrying out identification exercises for over last one hundred and thirty years, power is not able to either comprehensively conjecture or comprehensively speculate about the nature of identity. I find it amusing as I do not understand why there seems to be so much of faith in a smart id card to deliver us from all the ill that India is facing right now because we do not know what the 'I' in MNIC stands for or what 'id' in a smart id card means. Imagine this- Picture our nation as a body. Now this body is afflicted with twin diseases-poverty and (in)security. Imagine the market (the corporates, the MNC's, the producers and manufacturers) as an expert. Like a doctor. Now this doctor tells the patient to take a drug, in this case, it is a smart id card. The person whose body it is takes this drug trusting the doctor. The doctor takes his fee and scoots off. Now you tell me what will happen to the body, if the drug is made of some known and some unknown chemicals? Will the body react favourably to such a treatment? or Will the body look forward to more such doses? Just think about it. We can always have more conversations on this. Warm regards Taha     From jeebesh at sarai.net Tue Feb 3 19:32:51 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (jeebesh at sarai.net) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 19:32:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Global update Message-ID: Crisis heightens danger of global social unrest SOURCE: http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20090203/world-news/crisis-heightens-danger-of-global-social-unrest France Hundreds of thousands of strikers marched in French cities on Thursday to demand pay rises and job protection. Some protesters clashed with police, but no major violence was reported. The one-day strike failed to paralyse the country and support from private sector workers appeared limited. Labour leaders hailed the action, which marked the first time France's eight union federations had joined forces against the government since President Nicolas Sarkozy took office in 2007. Russia Thousands of opposition supporters rallied in Moscow and the far east port of Vladivostok on Saturday in a national day of protests over hardships caused by the financial crisis. Street rallies were held in almost every major city. The pro-Kremlin United Russia party also drew thousands to rallies in support of government anti-crisis measures. About 100 protesters were arrested in Vladivostok last month during protests against hikes in second hand car import duties aimed at protecting jobs in the domestic car industry. Madagascar More than 100 people were killed in civil unrest in Madagascar last week, according to the US ambassador. Police previously confirmed 44 deaths, with most of those in a store burned during looting when an anti-government protest degenerated into violence. The mayor of Antananarivo, Andry Rajoelina, galvanised popular frustrations to spearhead demonstrations and strikes against President Marc Ravalomanana's government. The violence came amid an oil and minerals exploration boom in Madagascar. Iceland Parties forming a new coalition for the crisis-hit island decided on Sunday its new prime minister will be former Social Affairs Minister Johanna Sigurdardottir. Prime Minister Geir Haarde resigned last week after a series of protests, some of which had turned violent. He was the first leader to fall as a direct result of the credit crunch. The collapse of the country's fast-expanding banks under a weight of debt forced the country to take a €7.8 billion IMF-led rescue package and sparked widespread anger. Davos Hundreds of people rallied in Geneva and Davos on Saturday to protest against the World Economic Forum, saying the elite gathered for its annual meeting are not qualified to fix the world's problems. In Geneva, where the WEF has its headquarters, police in riot gear fired teargas and water canon to disperse a crowd. Britain Thousands of energy workers staged walkouts on Friday in protest over the use of foreign labour, fearing for their jobs in what is set to be the worst recession in the world's major economies. Contractors at a refinery owned by France's Total began protests on Wednesday after Italian firm IREM won a contract to build a new unit. Unions say it has brought in workers from Italy and Portugal and deprived Britons of work. Greece Greek farmers removed roadblocks last week which caused 11 days of travel chaos across the country as they protested against low prices. They kept their blockade on Bulgaria's border and central Greece. High youth unemployment was a main driver for rioting in Greece in December, initially sparked by the police shooting of a youth in an Athens neighbourhood. The protests forced a government reshuffle. Guadeloupe France sent a minister to the Caribbean island on Sunday for talks aimed at ending a 13-day general strike over pay and prices that has paralysed the French territory. An alliance of 47 unions and local bodies launched their protest on January 20 over the cost of living. They have drawn up a list of 146 demands including a €200 euro increase in the minimum salary, a freeze on rents and a cut in taxes and food prices. Island authorities have rejected the demands. Bulgaria Hundreds of Bulgarians demanded economic and social reforms in the face of a global slowdown in anti-government rallies last month, calling on the Socialist-led government to act or step down. Earlier last month, hundreds of protesters clashed with police, smashed windows and damaged cars in Sofia when a rally against corruption and slow reforms in the face of the economic crisis turned into a riot. Latvia A 10,000-strong protest in Latvia on January 16 descended into a riot, with protesters trying to storm parliament before going on the rampage. Government steps to cut wages, as part of an austerity plan to win international aid, have angered people. Lithuania Also on January 16, police fired teargas to disperse demonstrators who pelted parliament with stones in protest at government cuts in social spending to offset an economic slowdown. Police said 80 people were detained and 20 injured. Prime Minister Andrius Kubilius said the violence would not stop an austerity plan launched after a slide in output and revenues. From indersalim at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 19:46:40 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 19:46:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice In-Reply-To: <776819.99479.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <776819.99479.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70902030616o735a281dn72f781916ebe25d0@mail.gmail.com> Dear Kshmendra thanks for response. I repeat, the concluding line " I am talking on my own behalf " So i dont see myself speaking on Yasin Malik's behalf. By the way, i have casually seen him in a gathering in Delhi, at the place where Delhi Police was duty bound to ensure his safety. i have never met him, let alone discussion on Kashmir. i wish you had reflected my piece on Yasin Malik's choice a little more seriously. I talked about some other issues as well, which might even anger Yasin Malik even. The elected Govt in J&K too realizes the inevitability of Hurriyat in any talks about Kashmir issue. We all know what happened in 1990. How much we all suffered and how badly it was handled, not only by those who initiated it, but even by insincere politicians in Delhi. History will laugh on Jagmohan, former Governer, who imposed ban on Sheep slaughter in Kashmir on Hindu sacred days. Well, people in general have a tendency to forgive anything that seemingly qualifies for so called National interests, even when their actions are more serious than murder. I dont know how to describe a murderer, when i have thousands of different types of criminals roaming freely in our country. Take for example George Fernandes, was he simply a Trade Unionist, or he actually indulged in some terror tactics during his early phase of political life? Was Yasir Arafat a politician from the beginning? NO. but he was most honored guest of India always, of course, for all the right reasons. The visible end of politics which we are familiar with is in fact its Reality's tip of ice berg . Now, do we see Indira's Emergency as murderous as Yasin's 1990's killings? Now, how will you explain the birth of Bindranwwalla , the sikh terrorist, whose death and operation Blue star caused the assassination of Indira Gandhi ji. How the Govt. of India will explain to us the emergence of Prabhakarn who was supported by India as much as Kashmiris are supported by Pakistan. Now , how many criminals are there in our Parliament ? How many hundreds of corporates are hand in glove with the Govt. who give death to poor people in villages by polluting the simple drinking water. Are they murderers? or decent citizens of our society because they have money, legal support and Nationalist tag on their lapels. I might digress from your main concern: Yasin Malik the murderer. By the way, has Govt of India a case against him ? Back in Kashmir, it is most interesting to see how the parties who rigged elections openly in 1987-88 in Kashmir are back in power. Now rigging elections certainly qualifies as Murder of Democracy, and see, all the intellectuals of India have nothing but praise for this unique grand slam National Double who saved Kashmir for India. Blood on the hands of both National Conference and Indira Congress is still wet, if you ask me, but no, we swoon the moment Abdullah Jr. says " i am Indian". Dynasty rule itself smells scandalous. But alas, we have a school for such a scandal in India. We have children of the erestwhile politicians at the helm and we are happy to see India marching ahead this way. And why should we even talk about that, let us blindly accept the norm and ignore the wiser nuance. After all who needs reasoning these days. but let us at least feel guilty. Times are such that our next Home Minister might be Sanjay Dutt who knowingly bought hand grenades, and other lethal weapons from those who were directly responsible for Bombay serial Blasts. Two cheers for Indian Democracy with love and regards inder salim On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Inder Salim > > You are playing advisor to and policy strategist for Yasin Malik a > self-admitted murderer. Yasin, who amongst others led (post 1947) the > introduction of Islamic Terrorism into Kashmir. Yasin who ostensibly > eschewed the path of violence, yet continued to have links with Terrorist > Organisations. Yasin the Terrorist. > > Kshmendra > > --- On Mon, 2/2/09, indersalim wrote: > > From: indersalim > Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice > To: "reader-list" > Date: Monday, February 2, 2009, 8:39 PM > > Dear all > Please click the web site by Musaall Mullick, Fiancée of Yasin Malik, > the well known 'rebel' leader from Jammu and Kashmir. I think it is > interesting. > > http://mushaalmullick.com/default.aspx > > I have pasted this link, precisely to see some meaning in Yasin > Malik's choice. One of Musaall's water colour is titled 'Shame of > the > Humanity'. It shows a young girl child who deserves all the attention. > > Yasin Malik has lot of admirers and critic around the world; that > applies even to Kashmir valley. Only time will tell us how seriously > he grasped the Kashmir issue. > > Perhaps, this latest step speaks something about his priorities. > Certainly, if SAS Geelani, his Hurriyat colleague, was young and > going to be married, he would not have chosen a girl like Musaall as > his Shareek-e-Hayyat ( better half ), but some one who would prefer to > stay behind veil all the time. > > One of the water colour of Musaall depicts a woman with a Bindi ( > predominately used by Hindu women ). What does that mean? It means, a > Swat Valley like situation is certainly not Yasin Malik's cup of tea, > but something which has a space for freedom, freedom of choice, > particularly for women. > > Only time will tell us whether Yasin's Malik's Safar-e-Azadi will take > Kashmir on the path which is meaningful for both Musaall-Malik jodi > but People in general as well. There is ray of hope hidden in his > choice to wed a painter living in London. Imran Khan, the > cricketer-politician did almost similar to that, but failed to mix his > choice with his political vision. Will Yasin too follow Imran, or will > he let Musaall speak her mind freely ? > > Kashmir is seriously looking forward to see someone who speaks boldly > about the situation of women in J&K. For example, no woman in J&K has > any legal rights to retain a square inch of land in case she happens > to get married to a non-J&K citizen. That is truly against Women. But > slowly, I want Yasin to speak about this issue as well, even at the > cost of popularity. No previous govt has dared to speak about this > issue. The present Govt in J&K too will never support any idea like > that. So, he can outwit them on this account. This is golden chance. > Things like that can bring some real changes for a smooth and > dignified return of Kashmiri Pandits to Valley. > > The other issue is environment, which is as serious as Women's issues. > I have not gone though his agenda of Safray-Azadi but I wish issues > like that are thoroughly woven in his Azadi text. He needs to speak > about the need to protect the flora and fauna in J&K, besides a > sincere call for a simple living. He needs to talk about the revival > of folk arts and other forms of artistic expressions. > > This I am writing at a time when J&K is entering a special post free > election phase for a great good governance. But that is that. We still > have KASHMIR ISSUE, staring into our eyes as before. So, when every > other intellectual in India is dismissive about Hurriyat who obviously > gained nothing by giving Boycott call for Elections; I see them very > much there, as significant as ever. > > Indeed people like me who were victims of 1990 approach to Kashmir > Problem, but I believe, that some fresh approach is needed to > understand Kashmir. It just happens that Kashmir is a Muslim Majority > area, but Kashmir is not a Muslim problem, but a problem similar to > Buddhist Tibet. There has to be some inner need to understand the > troubles which a line called 'territory' inflicts on us. Why Kashmir > was divided. What is LOC after all? > > I know, there will be lot of angry reaction to this small mail, but I > hope some restraint, and cool minded approach. I am truly myself > looking for some answers. I don't see a great politician around with > some vision to bring a real change in our society, both at grass root > level and beyond. > > Capitalistic and narrow minded politics has ruined our systems of > living, and we are left with a situation like in Gaza where Israel is > openly killing women and children. Europe and America are silent, > which means they are not bothered by Palestine problem as they see it. > So, Hamas is bad, even when they have people's support. > > So, imagine, if tomorrow Hurriyat decides to fight elections in J&K , > and if they come to power and declare freedom on the very first day of > office, what choice India has? Arrest them there, with head lines > against Indian Democracy all over the world. So, is non-participation > is a blessing in disguise for Indian Government ? > > Let us talk to Yasin, more meaningfully, than before. I am talking > on my own behalf. > > With love and regards > Inder salim > > > -- > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in > the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From vashsand at hotmail.com Tue Feb 3 21:58:20 2009 From: vashsand at hotmail.com (Sandeep) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 17:28:20 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] indian culture Message-ID: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7866478.stm India couple's kiss 'not obscene' Public displays of affection and sex are still largely taboo in India A court in India has dismissed criminal proceedings against a married couple charged with obscenity for allegedly kissing in public in the capital. The Delhi high court judge wondered how an "expression of love by a young married couple" could attract an obscenity charge. Police arrested the couple - a 28-year-old man and a 23-year-old woman - for kissing near a station last September. Public displays of affection are still largely taboo in India. The police in Delhi had begun criminal proceedings against the couple for "sitting in an objectionable position near a metro (railway station) pillar and kissing due to which passersby were feeling bad". The maximum punishment for committing an "obscene act" is three months in prison. Judge S Muralidhar quashed the criminal proceedings. He said that even if police reports were accurate "it is inconceivable how... an expression of love by a young married couple would attract an offence of obscenity and trigger the coercive process of law". The judge expressed surprise that the couple had been picked up and charged by police despite officers being told that they were married. Controversies Reports say the couple denied in their petition to the court they were kissing. They said they were taking self portraits on their mobile phones. Richard Gere sparked protests in India after he kissed Shilpa Shetty The lawyer who contested the case for the couple told a Delhi newspaper: "Obscenity charges are attracted when an act is so obscene that it encourages depravity or annoys the public. "In this case both these contents are missing, because the charge sheet is silent on any passersby as originally claimed." Kissing in public in India has triggered controversies in the past. In 2007, Hollywood actor Richard Gere sparked protests in India after kissing Celebrity Big Brother winner and Bollywood actor Shilpa Shetty at an Aids awareness rally in Delhi. The protesters said Gere had insulted Indian culture by kissing the hand and face of the actress. In 2005, a court in Rajasthan imposed a fine of $22 on an Israeli couple for kissing after getting married in a traditional Hindu ceremony in Pushkar. Priests were offended when the couple kissed and hugged during the chanting of religious verses. In 2004, Bollywood film star Kareena Kapoor began legal proceedings against a tabloid newspaper that published photos of her kissing her co-star. She and Shahid Kapoor said the photos were doctored and were not of them. India couple's kiss 'not obscene' Public displays of affection and sex are still largely taboo in India A court in India has dismissed criminal proceedings against a married couple charged with obscenity for allegedly kissing in public in the capital. The Delhi high court judge wondered how an "expression of love by a young married couple" could attract an obscenity charge. Police arrested the couple - a 28-year-old man and a 23-year-old woman - for kissing near a station last September. Public displays of affection are still largely taboo in India. The police in Delhi had begun criminal proceedings against the couple for "sitting in an objectionable position near a metro (railway station) pillar and kissing due to which passersby were feeling bad". The maximum punishment for committing an "obscene act" is three months in prison. Judge S Muralidhar quashed the criminal proceedings. He said that even if police reports were accurate "it is inconceivable how... an expression of love by a young married couple would attract an offence of obscenity and trigger the coercive process of law". The judge expressed surprise that the couple had been picked up and charged by police despite officers being told that they were married. Controversies Reports say the couple denied in their petition to the court they were kissing. They said they were taking self portraits on their mobile phones. Richard Gere sparked protests in India after he kissed Shilpa Shetty The lawyer who contested the case for the couple told a Delhi newspaper: "Obscenity charges are attracted when an act is so obscene that it encourages depravity or annoys the public. "In this case both these contents are missing, because the charge sheet is silent on any passersby as originally claimed." Kissing in public in India has triggered controversies in the past. In 2007, Hollywood actor Richard Gere sparked protests in India after kissing Celebrity Big Brother winner and Bollywood actor Shilpa Shetty at an Aids awareness rally in Delhi. The protesters said Gere had insulted Indian culture by kissing the hand and face of the actress. In 2005, a court in Rajasthan imposed a fine of $22 on an Israeli couple for kissing after getting married in a traditional Hindu ceremony in Pushkar. Priests were offended when the couple kissed and hugged during the chanting of religious verses. In 2004, Bollywood film star Kareena Kapoor began legal proceedings against a tabloid newspaper that published photos of her kissing her co-star. She and Shahid Kapoor said the photos were doctored and were not of them. _________________________________________________________________ Drag n’ drop—Get easy photo sharing with Windows Live™ Photos. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/photos.aspx From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 22:11:02 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 22:11:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice In-Reply-To: <47e122a70902030616o735a281dn72f781916ebe25d0@mail.gmail.com> References: <776819.99479.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <47e122a70902030616o735a281dn72f781916ebe25d0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690902030841h46c5c975rcf2c546473c869b7@mail.gmail.com> Inder Salim, You have a habit of retracting from your past statements. First you suggest everyone to hear out barbarian Yasin Malik, and try to develop our interest towards his 'political economy student' and artist wife. Now, what makes you believe that Kshmendra thinks you wrote on behalf of Islamic Terrorist Yasin Malik ? ..which further makes you clarify that 'You are talking on your own behalf". Isn't that already understood or else you know we doubt your intentions very well ? Anyways.. You wrote your first e-mail as if you see in murderer Yasin Malik a new ray of hope, a leader or a person who can represent you. Unfortunately, you are not aware of his past acts or casually as always ignore them. What change will he make to the environment? He has already killed hundreds of innocents and raped women. By his cowardly acts of Islamic Terror, half a million minority Hindus had to flee overnight to a safe shelter. It would be interesting to see the political significance of Yasin Malik's strange step of marriage at a point when separatists and criminals like him are being ignored by one and all. Their shops are out of stock and on the verge of extinction. Least to say just as in the past, their ideas are as bankrupt. Wonder what you wanted to convey by such an elaborate on this worthless creature Yasin malik ? Shouldn't he rather respect the people for whom he claims to work; and take a bold decision to retire from 'Ego Politics' which Kashmiri Muslims are famous for? Enough of his PR hungry - hunger strikes to get International Attention. And, enough of his dramas of so called freedom. its time he surrenders for the crimes he committed against humanity. Hurriyat contesting elections. lol You kidding me Inder. Do they even have support in two and a half districts of Kashmir ? I'll post an article for your knowledge next on this joke. He (Yasin Malik) has no right to even utter the words 'Kashmiri Pandits; from his filthy mouth. Kashmiri Pandits will return to the valley only after the painful death of this bastard Yasin Malik. He should know how it feels when bullet passes through his empty skull! It is strange...Yes it very Strange why a Political Economy student of LSE would marry a third rate, uneducated, uncivilised, criminal and butcher - Yasin Malik. A lot must have happened behind the curtains in bygone months. It is important to note here that the would be wife's brother Haider is US based strategic expert. And, Multah Mallick hasn't even landed in Kashmir that flowers have already started showering in. Asiya Andrabi being the very first in the over-crowded separatist band wagon to declare an unofficial fatwa on them. Wonder if the nude paintings by Multah Mallick would be gifted to Syed Ali Shah Geelani to decorate his living room? Inder..you didn't observe all the paintings by Multah as can be seen. There is one very original work titled 'Questioning Life..". I would be insane if I say, this could be her post-marriage reality. Yasin Malik isn't Tom Cruise you see. he is blood thirsty devil. Please leave development, environment and other key issues for young Omar Abdullah to handle. Introspection on your 'own behalf' does certainly sound great. Isn't it ? Love In exile.. In waiting.. On 2/3/09, indersalim wrote: > > Dear Kshmendra > > thanks for response. > > I repeat, the concluding line " I am talking on my own behalf " So i > dont see myself speaking on Yasin Malik's behalf. By the way, i have > casually seen him in a gathering in Delhi, at the place where Delhi > Police was duty bound to ensure his safety. i have never met him, let > alone discussion on Kashmir. > > i wish you had reflected my piece on Yasin Malik's choice a little > more seriously. I talked about some other issues as well, which might > even anger Yasin Malik even. The elected Govt in J&K too realizes the > inevitability of Hurriyat in any talks about Kashmir issue. > > We all know what happened in 1990. How much we all suffered and how > badly it was handled, not only by those who initiated it, but even by > insincere politicians in Delhi. History will laugh on Jagmohan, former > Governer, who imposed ban on Sheep slaughter in Kashmir on Hindu > sacred days. Well, people in general have a tendency to forgive > anything that seemingly qualifies for so called National interests, > even when their actions are more serious than murder. > > I dont know how to describe a murderer, when i have thousands of > different types of criminals roaming freely in our country. Take for > example George Fernandes, was he simply a Trade Unionist, or he > actually indulged in some terror tactics during his early phase of > political life? Was Yasir Arafat a politician from the beginning? NO. > but he was most honored guest of India always, of course, for all the > right reasons. The visible end of politics which we are familiar with > is in fact its Reality's tip of ice berg . > > Now, do we see Indira's Emergency as murderous as Yasin's 1990's > killings? Now, how will you explain the birth of Bindranwwalla , the > sikh terrorist, whose death and operation Blue star caused the > assassination of Indira Gandhi ji. How the Govt. of India will explain > to us the emergence of Prabhakarn who was supported by India as much > as Kashmiris are supported by Pakistan. > > Now , how many criminals are there in our Parliament ? How many > hundreds of corporates are hand in glove with the Govt. who give > death to poor people in villages by polluting the simple drinking > water. Are they murderers? or decent citizens of our society because > they have money, legal support and Nationalist tag on their lapels. > > I might digress from your main concern: Yasin Malik the murderer. By > the way, has Govt of India a case against him ? > > Back in Kashmir, it is most interesting to see how the parties who > rigged elections openly in 1987-88 in Kashmir are back in power. Now > rigging elections certainly qualifies as Murder of Democracy, and see, > all the intellectuals of India have nothing but praise for this unique > grand slam National Double who saved Kashmir for India. Blood on the > hands of both National Conference and Indira Congress is still wet, > if you ask me, but no, we swoon the moment Abdullah Jr. says " i am > Indian". > > Dynasty rule itself smells scandalous. But alas, we have a school for > such a scandal in India. We have children of the erestwhile > politicians at the helm and we are happy to see India marching ahead > this way. And why should we even talk about that, let us blindly > accept the norm and ignore the wiser nuance. After all who needs > reasoning these days. but let us at least feel guilty. > > Times are such that our next Home Minister might be Sanjay Dutt who > knowingly bought hand grenades, and other lethal weapons from those > who were directly responsible for Bombay serial Blasts. > > Two cheers for Indian Democracy > > with love and regards > > inder salim > > > On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: > > Dear Inder Salim > > > > You are playing advisor to and policy strategist for Yasin Malik a > > self-admitted murderer. Yasin, who amongst others led (post 1947) the > > introduction of Islamic Terrorism into Kashmir. Yasin who ostensibly > > eschewed the path of violence, yet continued to have links with Terrorist > > Organisations. Yasin the Terrorist. > > > > Kshmendra > > > > --- On Mon, 2/2/09, indersalim wrote: > > > > From: indersalim > > Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice > > To: "reader-list" > > Date: Monday, February 2, 2009, 8:39 PM > > > > Dear all > > Please click the web site by Musaall Mullick, Fiancée of Yasin Malik, > > the well known 'rebel' leader from Jammu and Kashmir. I think it is > > interesting. > > > > http://mushaalmullick.com/default.aspx > > > > I have pasted this link, precisely to see some meaning in Yasin > > Malik's choice. One of Musaall's water colour is titled 'Shame of > > the > > Humanity'. It shows a young girl child who deserves all the attention. > > > > Yasin Malik has lot of admirers and critic around the world; that > > applies even to Kashmir valley. Only time will tell us how seriously > > he grasped the Kashmir issue. > > > > Perhaps, this latest step speaks something about his priorities. > > Certainly, if SAS Geelani, his Hurriyat colleague, was young and > > going to be married, he would not have chosen a girl like Musaall as > > his Shareek-e-Hayyat ( better half ), but some one who would prefer to > > stay behind veil all the time. > > > > One of the water colour of Musaall depicts a woman with a Bindi ( > > predominately used by Hindu women ). What does that mean? It means, a > > Swat Valley like situation is certainly not Yasin Malik's cup of tea, > > but something which has a space for freedom, freedom of choice, > > particularly for women. > > > > Only time will tell us whether Yasin's Malik's Safar-e-Azadi will take > > Kashmir on the path which is meaningful for both Musaall-Malik jodi > > but People in general as well. There is ray of hope hidden in his > > choice to wed a painter living in London. Imran Khan, the > > cricketer-politician did almost similar to that, but failed to mix his > > choice with his political vision. Will Yasin too follow Imran, or will > > he let Musaall speak her mind freely ? > > > > Kashmir is seriously looking forward to see someone who speaks boldly > > about the situation of women in J&K. For example, no woman in J&K has > > any legal rights to retain a square inch of land in case she happens > > to get married to a non-J&K citizen. That is truly against Women. But > > slowly, I want Yasin to speak about this issue as well, even at the > > cost of popularity. No previous govt has dared to speak about this > > issue. The present Govt in J&K too will never support any idea like > > that. So, he can outwit them on this account. This is golden chance. > > Things like that can bring some real changes for a smooth and > > dignified return of Kashmiri Pandits to Valley. > > > > The other issue is environment, which is as serious as Women's issues. > > I have not gone though his agenda of Safray-Azadi but I wish issues > > like that are thoroughly woven in his Azadi text. He needs to speak > > about the need to protect the flora and fauna in J&K, besides a > > sincere call for a simple living. He needs to talk about the revival > > of folk arts and other forms of artistic expressions. > > > > This I am writing at a time when J&K is entering a special post free > > election phase for a great good governance. But that is that. We still > > have KASHMIR ISSUE, staring into our eyes as before. So, when every > > other intellectual in India is dismissive about Hurriyat who obviously > > gained nothing by giving Boycott call for Elections; I see them very > > much there, as significant as ever. > > > > Indeed people like me who were victims of 1990 approach to Kashmir > > Problem, but I believe, that some fresh approach is needed to > > understand Kashmir. It just happens that Kashmir is a Muslim Majority > > area, but Kashmir is not a Muslim problem, but a problem similar to > > Buddhist Tibet. There has to be some inner need to understand the > > troubles which a line called 'territory' inflicts on us. Why Kashmir > > was divided. What is LOC after all? > > > > I know, there will be lot of angry reaction to this small mail, but I > > hope some restraint, and cool minded approach. I am truly myself > > looking for some answers. I don't see a great politician around with > > some vision to bring a real change in our society, both at grass root > > level and beyond. > > > > Capitalistic and narrow minded politics has ruined our systems of > > living, and we are left with a situation like in Gaza where Israel is > > openly killing women and children. Europe and America are silent, > > which means they are not bothered by Palestine problem as they see it. > > So, Hamas is bad, even when they have people's support. > > > > So, imagine, if tomorrow Hurriyat decides to fight elections in J&K , > > and if they come to power and declare freedom on the very first day of > > office, what choice India has? Arrest them there, with head lines > > against Indian Democracy all over the world. So, is non-participation > > is a blessing in disguise for Indian Government ? > > > > Let us talk to Yasin, more meaningfully, than before. I am talking > > on my own behalf. > > > > With love and regards > > Inder salim > > > > > > -- > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > > in > > the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- -- Aditya Raj Kaul Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India Cell - +91-9873297834 Campaign Blog: http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/ Personal Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 22:24:52 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 22:24:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath In-Reply-To: <000901c985ef$0ff34950$0201a8c0@limo> References: <006701c98369$3b8cae90$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40901310944i5dfd0c1cpb9da416014037dab@mail.gmail.com> <005901c985c0$1e425b10$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40902030231p62cc4e76t2610d577e6ab39a@mail.gmail.com> <000901c985ef$0ff34950$0201a8c0@limo> Message-ID: Dear Bipin (and all) You have stated two points in the arguments you made about Modi. One was the fact that Modi has now decided to use development as a tool to win elections. The other is that the people of Gujarat have elected him on the basis of development. The first has been answered by Taha, and for the moment, I am not commenting on it. I would do so sometime later. My reference is to the second point. You have stated that solely development has been a factor for winning elections in Gujarat for Modi and BJP. This has also been stated to be the criterion for the victory of BJP in Chhatisgarh and Madhya Pradesh, as well as that of the Congress in Delhi. However, my discussion with my friend Aashish (a member of this list) has certainly opened my eyes, that it is a highly wrong statement to be put up as a general one. And the reason is this. I think the media and the upper elites and the middle class, in this country, have devised a simplistic way of analyzing elections, especially when the verdicts are confounding for them, in order to prove that they knew why the results came out the way they came out. However, in all this, they forget many things. And those have to be pointed out in this mail. Gujarat has 182 Assembly constituencies. Has Modi developed all the 182 assembly constituencies on an equal basis? Do all the constituencies, or at least by and large most, have received the same kind of development in at least 3-4 sectors, like agriculture, transport and communication like roads, banking facilities of state etc.? I don't think that would be the case. And mind you, such things can lead to complaints of discrimination to certain regions and constituencies of Gujarat, against the Chief Minister and his govt, and therefore his party. Secondly. Compared to 2002, has the situation improved in all the sectors in Gujarat? Or has it deteriorated? Which have improved, and which have not? And did Modi try to help those sectors which didn't improve, and did people feel that he tried to improve them? More important is that, even if it did improve, was the potential growth possible? Or did we miss out the potential target? And if yes, by how much? And what do people feel about this? Thirdly. There are many who think people vote on the basis of caste. Do all the constituencies have same percentage of Dalits, Muslims, Patels, upper castes and others? Or is it different? Is it the same for all BJP won constituencies? Or even there, is there difference? These are important questions. The fact is, that instead of analyzing elections the macro-way, (which is also the way you have analyzed development, and also have stated Gujarati people to have analyzed development and BJP), one should look at the constituency level, to decide why has the BJP candidate has won, or why has the Congress candidate won, and so on. There can be many reasons, and perceptions. It may be that all Muslims voted for Congress candidate and therefore he won. Or, all Patels voted combinedly in favor of BJP candidate and so he won. Or, some Patels didn't vote for BJP candidate, as they were angry that Modi had disposed of Keshubhai Patel from the BJP, and they felt a Patel leader was marginalized. Or, Modi was perceived to be a strong CM. Or, Kolis felt that Modi had failed to protect their women (there was a rape case of a woman belonging to Koli community in Saurashtra a couple of months before the assembly elections) and hence voted against it. And so on. I am not saying that what you said is wrong. It could be right. But there is no substantial statistical analysis to decide that which reason was right or which was not right. Therefore, it is very difficult to assume that Modi won on the basis of development. Or on Hindutva. Or on Moditva, as he would like us to believe in some sense. It may be other reasons as well. It may be that the candidates he had chosen had good following in their constituencies. Or it may be that BSP had spoiled the chances of Congress candidates. But there should be statistical analysis for this. The reason I say this is that, it is more starkly true in my own state (Madhya Pradesh). Now, the Congress was doing well in the bye-elections till about one and a half years back. And many believed that the BJP there would lose its govt. Instead it won. And it has won by 37.50% votes being secured by it, which is the lowest number of votes secured by any party in the history of the MP assembly elections to form a government. Now what happened in these one and a half years to ensure it won. God knows. Everybody is giving some reasons, but I don't think anybody has anything except possible perceptions, which may or may not be true, but which dont' have facts to back them up. One more thing. It's wrong for all of us, including me, to say that Gujarat voted for Modi. Modi was voted in by majority of the voters who turned up on the day of election, not by all Gujarati voters who turned up, nor by all Gujaratis who are eligible voters. Instead, we can simply say Modi won Gujarat elections. That would be better. Regards Rakesh PS :Thanks to Aashish for this wonderful discussion to lead to this kind of insight. From anivar.aravind at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 08:11:42 2009 From: anivar.aravind at gmail.com (Anivar Aravind) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 08:11:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] today@ViBGYOR2009: National Conference on Food Sovereignty Message-ID: <35f96d470902031841m1b3476cdvbe3d953bc440f3d7@mail.gmail.com> http://2009.vibgyorfilm.com/programmes/national-conference/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ViBGYOR National Conference-2009 `Food Sovereignty' Wednesday, February 4th, 10am-4pm OUTLINE 9.30am: Sangeet Nataka Academy. Thrissur premises * Inauguration of the `Farm & Food Fair'* 10am: Regional Theatre *Inauguration of the National Conference* *Dr. Viswambharan, Vice Chancellor, Kerala Agricultural University (KAU)* 10.30am: Conference *Moderator: Smitu Kothari, Intercultural Resopurces, New Delhi Key Note: `Food Sovereignty and Food Security Dr. Kamla Bhasin, former Member, FAO* (Tea Break) Presentations: - * Food Swaraj: Initiatives of Gramswaraj across India*: Kalanand Mani, Peaceful Society, Goa - * Grasroots fighting the global GM giants*, Sathish Garu, Deccan Development Society, Hyderabad - *Impact of Climate Change on Food and Agriculture:* Dr. Prasad Rao, Dept. Of Metereology, KAU, Mannuthy 12.30 noon: Discussion/Q&A 1.00: Lunch 2.00-4.00: *Panel Discussion: People's Movements for Food rights:* *Moderator: Rajaji Mathew Thomas MLA* - *Fishing and/as Farming: Fisherfolk's perspectives on Food and livelihood* Kerala Swathanthra Matsya Thozhilali Federation, Trivandrum - *Rural Women for alternative farming modes and models* - DDS, Hyderabad - Utthan, Ahemedabad - Abhivyakti. Nasik 4.00: Concluding Session ------------------------------------------------------------------- *APPEAL : * As with any people led initiative, ViBGYOR film festival has been facing severe financial crisis. In spite of support from local groups, activists and partner organizations, the local organizers of the festival have incurred a cumulative loss of approximately rupees Seven lakhs over the past 3 years. One of the reasons is that the festival does not accept any corporate funding and has received little support from Government departments and public trusts. Major expenses incurred have been for travel, hire of equipment, halls, publications and accommodation and food for filmmakers and activists who attend the annual event. We appeal to our friends and well-wishers (Organizations/Institutions as well) to *join the ViBGYOR Film Fraternity* and thus support this alternative film festival, so that we can address the current financial crisis and also plan for the future. There are several ways to become part of the ViBGYOR Film Fraternity: 1. Contribute Rs. 10, 000 ($ 300 for people outside India) and become a *Patron Member of ViBGYOR Film Fraternity* 2. Contribute Rs. 5, 000 ($ 150 for people outside India) and become an Associate Member of *ViBGYOR Film Fraternity* 3. Contribute Rs. 100 a month or Rs. 1000/- as one time payment and be a Member of the *ViBGYOR Support Group* 4. Contribute any amount as a support gesture Contributors to the ViBGYOR Fund, apart from becoming eligible for different types of Memberships, will be listed on our website and in publications like the ViBGYOR Souvenir, the monthly News Letter and the upcoming Festival Book. They will be entitled to one Guest Pass entry to ViBGYOR Annual Film Festival and associated activities. An e-group will link all friends and supporters of ViBGYOR, with monthly updates on ViBGYOR events and concerns. We hope to collect at least rupees 10 lakhs towards the deficit in the past and for the activities we have planned for the next three years. If you are interested in supporting this initiative, please write a *DD/cheque to `ViBGYOR Film Collective' payable at Thrissur* and mail it to the address below. Or you may directly transfer the money to the ViBGYOR Collective account (a/c number: *110533, Catholic Syrian Bank, Thrissur Town Branch*). Please intimate us and provide us with your postal address so that we can send you the receipt. ViBGYOR Film Festival Office Chetana, Kalliath Square, Palace Road Thrissur: 680 020, Kerala, INDIA Tel: +91-487-2330830/0-9447000830 info at vibgyorfilm.com, www.vibgyorfilm.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aliens at dataone.in Wed Feb 4 11:16:29 2009 From: aliens at dataone.in (bipin) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 11:16:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath References: <006701c98369$3b8cae90$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40901310944i5dfd0c1cpb9da416014037dab@mail.gmail.com> <005901c985c0$1e425b10$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40902030231p62cc4e76t2610d577e6ab39a@mail.gmail.com> <000901c985ef$0ff34950$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40902030348k5f16002by866cd3ba21a41081@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002401c9868b$eda724a0$0201a8c0@limo> Dear Taha, In recent election, 'Maut ke saudagar' was congress campaign by Mrs. Sonia, (I surprised she is not that out spoken lady how she used that word) and not Modi campaign. However, it was fire back to them only. Modi mask, chhapan ki chhati is one type of publicity gimmick and nothing to do with Hindutva. India is very wide country with ampoule of varieties of casts. I told you earlier that vote bank politics strategy played since independence includes caste based politics also along with minor vote bank. When you campaign in election you have plan somehow caste based campaign. However, it has reduced nowadays drastically but not removed fully. But, I am sure it will have minimum impact after few years at least in western India. thanks Bipin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Taha Mehmood" <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> To: "bipin" Cc: "reader-list" Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 5:18 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath > Dear Bipin > > I take your word that this time Modi did not use HIndutva as an > election strategy. This time the strategy it seems was more self > aggrandizing. The 'Chappan ke Chaati', 'Maut ke Saudagar', 'Modi > Masks' and so on. Modi's rhetoric was also carefully crafted to > include the audience. There were reports about he used a uniquely > christian strategy of catechisms to involve the audience. For instance > how would ask a question, where do you think Lord Ram was born? The > audience would reply in unison- Ayodhya. Then Mr. Modi would lampoon > Congress, to the effect that- you, the common people of Gujarat know > the answer to this question but those who are born in Italy and who > now run our country think that Ram is a mythical figure. The audience > will burst out laughing. It is also reported that each local RSS > handlers were assigned a row of audience. They were given a list of > all the questions and answers in advance and when when Mr.Modi spoke > everybody in the audience was ready for an engaging drama. Where was > 'development' in this strategy? > > If Mr. Modi is an efficient chief minister then why is it that more > three crore people are dying of hunger in his state or are suffering > from malnutrition and low body mass index. > > Regards > > Taha From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 12:54:34 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 12:54:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] In Kashmir we have terrorism, not a freedom struggle Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902032324t43ead994waa02e2b59d3fa7e2@mail.gmail.com> http://idp.world-citizenship.org/wp-archive/154 Of late discordant notes come from US official circles which give an impression that Washington is not averse to politicising global terror when it comes to handling it in the case of India. The US top military brass at CENTCOM and other regional command levels has subtly expressed that the Kashmir dispute has a link to terrorism. The British foreign secretary, Mr. David Miliband, recently joined his voice with that of American Generals when he wrote in The Guardian that not resolving Kashmir dispute was the cause of rise of terror in India. One would ask that by the same token what were he causes of 9/11? Terror unleashed by religious extremists is not unknown to the US or UK. Both have taken measures aimed at ensuring maximum security to their nationals and institutions of the state. Obviously, other counties afflicted by same scourge would also exercise their right to protect their citizens and sovereignty of their state. India has signed an agreement with both, the US and UK according to which the signatories will collaborate closely to fight global terrorism. Sometime back when the US hinted that she expected India to join NATO forces in their fight against Taliban-Al Qaeda combine, Washington was, in fact, invoking the spirit of the Indo-US anti-terror agreement. How come the yardstick changes when the event of 26/11 is under focus? If the Anglo-American bloc wants India, or for that matter any other country in India's position, to compromise her territorial integrity through a deal with the terrorists, then there appears no logic in either the US calling the world powers that they "were either on his side or on the side of the enemy" in the wake of 9/11 or signing anti-terrorism agreement with India or other countries. The land and the territory of India are as much sanctimonious to the Indians as is the land of the US to the Americans. BY reviving Kashmir rhetoric, the US is not actually serving the feelings of Pakistan — her close ally. It has its strategic interests and wants to produce an answer to Islamabad's threat of withdrawing her warring troops from NWFP and Waziristan where they, in tandem with Pakistanis, are engaged in fierce and deadly gun-battles with diehard tribesmen. Pakistan is in a precarious position in terms of war strategy against Taliban. On the one hand she has to fight her own nationals, viz. Pakistani Taliban in conjunction with the American troops, and on the other hand, she has to fight vast Punjabi population that is deeply involved and emotionally glued to the philosophy of radicalism. The perceived threat from her eastern neighbour comes handy at a time when the civilian administration and the army for long at loggerheads are intensely involved in a ludicrous power game. By pressurising India to make territorial concessions in Kashmir, Americans envision killing two birds with one stone: keep Pakistan happy with the Kashmir windfall and secondly let Pakistani troops engage themselves in a fratricidal war in distant bleak mountains leading to the annihilation of both. We know that the much hyped Track II diplomacy veered round one and only one objective, and that is unhinging India from status quo position in Kashmir. Various plans were proposed and also discussed in the course of Track II diplomacy. The patent rhetoric on both sides was that "steady progress was being made." However, in reality those parleys never moved beyond several formulae of dividing the state in one way or the other but reserving the valley as a gift to Pakistan. America's designs for a division of the State of Jammu and Kashmir along religious/ethnic and linguistic lines have been expressed explicitly as well as implicitly ever since India took the Kashmir dispute to the UN Security Council in 1948, albeit out of her naivety. We have had Dixon Plan, Kathwari Plan and lately Musharraf Plan all rooted in the fundamental idea of division along religious and ethno-linguistic lines. Security Councils recent resolution listing Jamaat-al-Dawa, the front of terrorist organization called Lashkar-e-Tayyaba, and recognition of LeT as an organization engaged in anti-state armed insurgency in Kashmir emphatically notify that what is going on in Kashmir is terrorism naked and open and in no way does it deserve to be recognized any thing like "freedom struggle". Those who support the so-called freedom struggle in Kashmir are actually on the side of terrorism and not peace. The Indian State has the right to protect her citizens and ensure perpetuation of a secular-democratic dispensation as enshrined in the Indian Constitution. India has the will and power to fight terrorism and to liberate her civil society from the looming threat out to rent its fabric asunder. It is US who needs Pakistan to fight her war in Afghanistan; India does not need anybody to fight her war. (*The writer is the former Director of the Centre of Central Asian Studies, Kashmir University*). From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 4 15:18:56 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 01:48:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] New addition to BATLA HOUSE CHRONICLES Message-ID: <160406.11990.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> "Batla House accused admits link to Varanasi blasts: cops" Manish Sahu   Lucknow : Alleged Indian Mujahideen activist Mohammad Saif, who was arrested in Delhi after the Batla House encounter on September 19, has disclosed that he and his dead colleague Atif Ameen were reportedly involved in Varanasi blasts in which 21 people were killed on March 7, 2006.   One blast took place at Sankatmochan Mandir and another at the Varanasi Cantt Railway Station. A third bomb, which was planted in Godaulia locality, did not explode. All bombs were made by packing explosives in pressure cookers.   Saif has reportedly confessed that he, along with Atif Ameen, planted the bomb at Godaulia. Youths from Azamgarh were involved in planting the other two bombs. There were two more men whose identity Saif did not know.   The Varanasi police brought Saif from Delhi and produced him before a local court on Friday. The court sent him in 14-day judicial remand. Since he has to be produced in a Delhi court on February 2, the Delhi Police took him away.   This is the first time the police have claimed that IM men were involved in the Varanasi blasts. The police had earlier arrested alleged Harkat-ul-Jehad-e-Islami activist Walliullah and filed a chargesheet against him in the case. Three unidentified Bangladeshi accomplices of Waliullah were shown absconding.   Following protests by local lawyers, the case was transferred from Varanasi to Ghaziabad. Waliullah’s lawyer Iliyas Chowdhary said, “The case is presently on trial. There is no direct evidence against Waliullah.” However, Waliullah has been convicted under the Unlawful Activities Act and sentenced to 10-year imprisonment.   Investigating officer Ashutosh Mishra said they had sent a police team to Delhi for questioning Saif. “He confessed that he had planted the bomb at Godaulia along with Atif Ameen who was killed in the Batla House encounter in Delhi.”   Mishra said Saif disclosed that Atif, who knew how to fit and set timers, had made the bomb at home with a white powder. He did not know who made the other two bombs and where. Also, only Atif knew from where the explosives and other material came and at whose asking the bombs were made and planted.   While the bomb at Sankatmochan Mandir was planted by Mirza Shadab Beg, Asadullah Akhtar alias Asadullah Khan and an unidentified man, the one at the railway station was planted by Ariz Khan alias Junaid and an unidentified man, Saif told the police. Except the two unidentified men, all were from Azamgarh and are absconding.     http://www.indianexpress.com/news/batla-house-accused-admits-link-to-varanasi-b.../417432/   From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 4 16:52:28 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 03:22:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Terrroism inside Pakistan, the epicentre of Global Terrorism Message-ID: <273074.11362.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Pictures and descriptions of SWAT valley show it to be exquisitely beautiful. It used to be the major tourist and honeymooning destination in Pakistan.   Pakistan's honeymoon with it's creation Taliban has run into trouble. Taliban and other such organisations created/promoted by Pakistan have turned to Islamic Terrorism.  Pakistan is being visited by and engulfed by its own sins.   Irfan Husain writes in DAWN about the "Nightmare in Paradise". Swat incidentally is only 160 km from Islamabad, the capital of Pakistan   EXTRACTS    - It is a sad fact that while we Pakistanis are (rightly) incensed over the recent assault on Gaza, and other attacks on Muslims by non-Muslims, we choose to turn a blind eye by even worse Muslim-on-Muslim atrocities. - Thus, most editorial writers, columnists and TV commentators reserve their fury and invective for western targets, while glossing over what Muslims are doing to their fellow Muslims.   - In Swat, there have been grisly beheadings and public executions. Every evening, Shah Doran broadcasts names on the militant hit-list, presumably on Mullah Radio’s old FM frequency. Nearly 200 girls’ schools have been blown up or torched. Scores of video rental shops and hair-cutting establishments have been attacked and forced to shut down. Women dare not leave their homes, and 80,000 girls have been deprived of an education.   - If this situation has been allowed to develop in Swat, an integral part of the Frontier Province, and not a tribal area, imagine what things must be like in Waziristan and Mohmand agencies. Clearly, things are rapidly spinning out of control, and the government cannot establish its writ over large parts of the country.   Kshmendra   From rama.sangye at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 16:57:19 2009 From: rama.sangye at gmail.com (V Ramaswamy) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 16:57:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Panini keypad Message-ID: <6ade4a8f0902040327g45f372dfl637b87101a615836@mail.gmail.com> Panini Keypad - the multilingual Indian keypad for all the languages of India. See: http://paninikeypad.com/ You can compose in 11 languages of India. You can automatically transliterate between any of the languages. Say write in Bengali and send in Malayalam. Receive in Gujarati and read in Punjabi and so on. Also it offers 350% compression. Normally an SMS can carry only 70 characters of regional language (unicode double bytes in a 140 byte total payload of SMS). This application uses proprietary SMS compression to increase that payload of a single SMS to around 240 characters. "This is possibly the worlds first on phone SMS compression application." No one has ever heard of such a thing or speculated about its possibility. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 4 16:58:37 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 03:28:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Terrroism inside Pakistan, the epicentre of Global Terrorism Message-ID: <904447.47639.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> (Reposting topic. Earlier message was incomplete)   Pictures and descriptions of SWAT valley show it to be exquisitely beautiful. It used to be the major tourist and honeymooning destination in Pakistan.   Pakistan's honeymoon with it's creation Taliban has run into trouble. Taliban and other such organisations created/promoted by Pakistan have turned to Islamic Terrorism.  Pakistan is being visited by and engulfed by its own sins.   Irfan Husain writes in DAWN about the "Nightmare in Paradise". Swat incidentally is only 160 km from Islamabad, the capital of Pakistan   EXTRACTS    - It is a sad fact that while we Pakistanis are (rightly) incensed over the recent assault on Gaza, and other attacks on Muslims by non-Muslims, we choose to turn a blind eye by even worse Muslim-on-Muslim atrocities. - Thus, most editorial writers, columnists and TV commentators reserve their fury and invective for western targets, while glossing over what Muslims are doing to their fellow Muslims.   - In Swat, there have been grisly beheadings and public executions. Every evening, Shah Doran broadcasts names on the militant hit-list, presumably on Mullah Radio’s old FM frequency. Nearly 200 girls’ schools have been blown up or torched. Scores of video rental shops and hair-cutting establishments have been attacked and forced to shut down. Women dare not leave their homes, and 80,000 girls have been deprived of an education.   - If this situation has been allowed to develop in Swat, an integral part of the Frontier Province, and not a tribal area, imagine what things must be like in Waziristan and Mohmand agencies. Clearly, things are rapidly spinning out of control, and the government cannot establish its writ over large parts of the country.   Kshmendra     "Nightmare in paradise" By Irfan Husain   IT was around this time of the year when I last visited Swat over a decade ago. An old friend from Turkey was with me, and we shivered in the cold at the archaeology department rest house where we stayed. The peaks overlooking the valley were covered in snow, as was the countryside as we drove along the partly frozen Swat river. Recalling various trips to the magical valley over the years, I am sorry for all those who can no longer venture there. But apart from the many tourists who are forever denied the beauty of the place, I pity the people of Swat who have been so badly let down by the Pakistani state. Tens of thousands have been forced to flee their homes as Swat descends deeper into chaos and despair. ‘Mullah Radio’ was the name given to Maulana Fazlullah for his daily FM broadcasts in which he called, among other things, for people to stop their children from getting anti-polio shots. According to him, the government teams going around immunising kids against this dreaded disease were actually making them sterile. Terrified, the paramedics halted their efforts in Swat. I wrote at the time that the government should immediately put a stop to the maulana’s illegal broadcasts. But this was before 9/11, at a time when Musharraf was wooing the mullahs and the jihadis. So Mullah Radio and his kind gathered strength and gained supporters, confident that the authorities would not lay a finger on them. And now that push has finally come to shove, the army has discovered that it does not have the muscle to displace the militants who have taken over Swat. In a sobering piece on this page last week, Zubeida Mustafa underlined the plight of the people of Swat, and asked why there were no large protests against the killers who were terrorising the valley. Why not indeed? It is a sad fact that while we Pakistanis are (rightly) incensed over the recent assault on Gaza, and other attacks on Muslims by non-Muslims, we choose to turn a blind eye by even worse Muslim-on-Muslim atrocities. Thus, most editorial writers, columnists and TV commentators reserve their fury and invective for western targets, while glossing over what Muslims are doing to their fellow Muslims. In Swat, there have been grisly beheadings and public executions. Every evening, Shah Doran broadcasts names on the militant hit-list, presumably on Mullah Radio’s old FM frequency. Nearly 200 girls’ schools have been blown up or torched. Scores of video rental shops and hair-cutting establishments have been attacked and forced to shut down. Women dare not leave their homes, and 80,000 girls have been deprived of an education. Currently, some 4,000 militants are battling 12,000 troops for control of the valley, and thus far, the terrorists are winning. According to reporters who have been covering the conflict, our army has been reluctant to engage the enemy, preferring to lob artillery shells in the general direction of militant redoubts in the mountains. As soon as night falls, our soldiers retreat into their camps while the jihadis rule the valley. In their ranks are a large number of fighters with Central Asian features. If this situation has been allowed to develop in Swat, an integral part of the Frontier Province, and not a tribal area, imagine what things must be like in Waziristan and Mohmand agencies. Clearly, things are rapidly spinning out of control, and the government cannot establish its writ over large parts of the country. Many efforts have been made to engage the terrorists in a dialogue. Each one has failed as the jihadis, sensing the weakness of the Pakistani state, and thriving on the support they get from so many TV talk-show hosts and their guests, go for the jugular. Without wanting to cast doubts on the courage of our soldiers engaged in a difficult battle, I must question the tactics being deployed. Counter-insurgency operations are now a central part of the training many armies impart. But we have stuck to conventional warfare training, based on the assumption that our enemy is India. This one-dimensional approach has failed to equip our officers and soldiers with the tactics to beat the irregular but well-equipped forces they now face across the northwest. But more than the inadequate military preparations that have handicapped us in our fight-back against the jihadis is the lack of a political consensus. With the country’s two biggest political parties, the PPP and the PML-N, locked in a bitter power struggle, those in power have little time to focus on the real danger facing Pakistan. For its part, the media seems to be united on only one thing: hostility towards the West, and specifically, on criticism of the American drone attacks against militant targets in Fata. The truth few Pakistanis are willing to face is that almost every such missile attack has killed and wounded militants, both foreign and home-grown. And while there have been a number of civilians killed and hurt, this is the unfortunate price for providing shelter to terrorists. If this sounds callous, ponder over the alternatives: who else would go after these killers? As our army has demonstrated time and again, it has neither the capability, nor the intelligence, to rid us of these killers. Our leaders, both in and out of uniform, have repeatedly said such attacks are ‘counter-productive’. So how about launching some ‘productive’ attacks that would convince the Americans (and us Pakistanis) that we are capable of fighting these jihadis on our own? Again, without wishing to belittle the courage or the sacrifices of our soldiers, we must recognise that so far, the war is going very badly for us. At this stage of the battle, it is too late to pin the blame on the individuals and institutions responsible for having allowed this situation to develop. If we wish to turn the tide, different tactics are needed. One thing that might focus minds is for the army to organise trips to the battlefield for politicians and journalists. Let them share what the people of Swat are going through, even if for a couple of days. Perhaps then they might see where the real danger lies. irfan.husain at gmail.com http://www.dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/20090131.htm       From aliens at dataone.in Wed Feb 4 18:39:28 2009 From: aliens at dataone.in (bipin) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 18:39:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath References: <006701c98369$3b8cae90$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40901310944i5dfd0c1cpb9da416014037dab@mail.gmail.com> <005901c985c0$1e425b10$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40902030231p62cc4e76t2610d577e6ab39a@mail.gmail.com> <000901c985ef$0ff34950$0201a8c0@limo> Message-ID: <004001c986c9$cf9114b0$0201a8c0@limo> Dear Rakesh, You can't have same yardstick of analysis for all the states as far as assembly election is concerned. At present we are talking for Gujarat or Modi. Grossly it is not possible to have uniform growth in all the constituencies', districts, taluqas. Since last 50 years, there remain difference in growth in the different areas that difference bound to remain for some times, however it minimize gradually when overall development is going on. At present all the ports development of Gujarat has utmost priorities and on development of the same in phase manner almost all the area of Gujarat will be benefited. Special Investment Region (SIR) is mostly implemented in un-developed areas will also be benefited. You are giving cast factor. No doubt, there is a cast factor affecting to the particular constituencies. But, say BJP candidate of particular cast who dominates that constituency, the other party like Congress knows this factor very well and they will certainly put similar capacity candidate only to counter this effect or vice versa and such effect will grossly nullified. Rakesh, voting format is very complex issue and one should go with the cast details since as informed all the parties/candidates knows their constituencies cast factor and plan their strategy accordingly. For your information, unlike past so many Muslim voters has voted for BJP this time in Gujarat. For MP you much better as its your homeland and I welcome your analysis. There after, I will also say something in my point of view. thanks Bipin Trivedi ----- Original Message ----- From: Rakesh Iyer To: bipin Cc: Taha Mehmood ; sarai-list Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 10:24 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath Dear Bipin (and all) You have stated two points in the arguments you made about Modi. One was the fact that Modi has now decided to use development as a tool to win elections. The other is that the people of Gujarat have elected him on the basis of development. The first has been answered by Taha, and for the moment, I am not commenting on it. I would do so sometime later. My reference is to the second point. You have stated that solely development has been a factor for winning elections in Gujarat for Modi and BJP. This has also been stated to be the criterion for the victory of BJP in Chhatisgarh and Madhya Pradesh, as well as that of the Congress in Delhi. However, my discussion with my friend Aashish (a member of this list) has certainly opened my eyes, that it is a highly wrong statement to be put up as a general one. And the reason is this. I think the media and the upper elites and the middle class, in this country, have devised a simplistic way of analyzing elections, especially when the verdicts are confounding for them, in order to prove that they knew why the results came out the way they came out. However, in all this, they forget many things. And those have to be pointed out in this mail. Gujarat has 182 Assembly constituencies. Has Modi developed all the 182 assembly constituencies on an equal basis? Do all the constituencies, or at least by and large most, have received the same kind of development in at least 3-4 sectors, like agriculture, transport and communication like roads, banking facilities of state etc.? I don't think that would be the case. And mind you, such things can lead to complaints of discrimination to certain regions and constituencies of Gujarat, against the Chief Minister and his govt, and therefore his party. Secondly. Compared to 2002, has the situation improved in all the sectors in Gujarat? Or has it deteriorated? Which have improved, and which have not? And did Modi try to help those sectors which didn't improve, and did people feel that he tried to improve them? More important is that, even if it did improve, was the potential growth possible? Or did we miss out the potential target? And if yes, by how much? And what do people feel about this? Thirdly. There are many who think people vote on the basis of caste. Do all the constituencies have same percentage of Dalits, Muslims, Patels, upper castes and others? Or is it different? Is it the same for all BJP won constituencies? Or even there, is there difference? These are important questions. The fact is, that instead of analyzing elections the macro-way, (which is also the way you have analyzed development, and also have stated Gujarati people to have analyzed development and BJP), one should look at the constituency level, to decide why has the BJP candidate has won, or why has the Congress candidate won, and so on. There can be many reasons, and perceptions. It may be that all Muslims voted for Congress candidate and therefore he won. Or, all Patels voted combinedly in favor of BJP candidate and so he won. Or, some Patels didn't vote for BJP candidate, as they were angry that Modi had disposed of Keshubhai Patel from the BJP, and they felt a Patel leader was marginalized. Or, Modi was perceived to be a strong CM. Or, Kolis felt that Modi had failed to protect their women (there was a rape case of a woman belonging to Koli community in Saurashtra a couple of months before the assembly elections) and hence voted against it. And so on. I am not saying that what you said is wrong. It could be right. But there is no substantial statistical analysis to decide that which reason was right or which was not right. Therefore, it is very difficult to assume that Modi won on the basis of development. Or on Hindutva. Or on Moditva, as he would like us to believe in some sense. It may be other reasons as well. It may be that the candidates he had chosen had good following in their constituencies. Or it may be that BSP had spoiled the chances of Congress candidates. But there should be statistical analysis for this. The reason I say this is that, it is more starkly true in my own state (Madhya Pradesh). Now, the Congress was doing well in the bye-elections till about one and a half years back. And many believed that the BJP there would lose its govt. Instead it won. And it has won by 37.50% votes being secured by it, which is the lowest number of votes secured by any party in the history of the MP assembly elections to form a government. Now what happened in these one and a half years to ensure it won. God knows. Everybody is giving some reasons, but I don't think anybody has anything except possible perceptions, which may or may not be true, but which dont' have facts to back them up. One more thing. It's wrong for all of us, including me, to say that Gujarat voted for Modi. Modi was voted in by majority of the voters who turned up on the day of election, not by all Gujarati voters who turned up, nor by all Gujaratis who are eligible voters. Instead, we can simply say Modi won Gujarat elections. That would be better. Regards Rakesh PS :Thanks to Aashish for this wonderful discussion to lead to this kind of insight. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 4 19:27:38 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 05:57:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear Message-ID: <222708.90849.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> What Pakistan and Pakistanis and their supporters in Kashmir did to Kashmir, is now being done in Swat, Pakistan by it's own Pakistanis.   Kshmendra     "Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear" By Sher Baz Khan Tuesday, 03 Feb, 2009   (MINGORA: The road to Swat used to be a byword for breathtaking beauty. Although it remains the most picturesque in the country, it now conjures up fear and lurking danger.) The journey upwards from Mardan these days is forbidding. The entire route is a picture of utter desolation. Fear of the unknown has overtaken a place fabled for its fertile fields and majestic mountains. Even a flying visit is enough to fill one with a sense of foreboding that religious extremists would overrun the valley before long. Most people, especially those living in urban areas, seem to have lost the will to live. Things started taking an ugly turn in July 2007 after the then NWFP chief minister Shamsul Mulk called in paramilitary forces to take on militants fired by Maulana Fazlullah’s inflammatory rhetoric. But the decision seems to have rebounded on the government, for now at least. The Maulana’s followers hold sway over no less than 80 per cent of the Swat valley. The Army is into the third phase of an operation that has seen the state’s writ shrinking by the day. Of late the Taliban have made inroads into even settled areas, such as, Mardan, Takhtbai, Shergarh, and almost the entire Malakand Agency. Taliban are spreading their message in the same way as they did, and still do, in Swat. The medium of the message is fear. In fact, fear is the message. The moment I entered the region, I was struck by unmistakable signs of a place steadily turning its back on the outside world. Institution after institution is falling to the Taliban. Non-combatants have a stark choice: seek refuge in other places or accept the diktat of Maulana Fazlullah. I managed to strike conversations with some Swatis, albeit after much persuasion. Abdullah Khan, a draper, narrated the ordeal of his brother, Rauf Khan, especially his treatment by a Rawalpindi-based psychiatrist. ‘Rauf saw the beheading of a man in a butcher shop by militants. Since that day he either laughs loudly or sheds tears in silence,’ Abdullah said. A stroll through Mingora’s main marketplace brought us face to face with misery. A number of people poured their hearts out to us. ‘The thunder of bombs, rockets, grenades and whatnot linger in our ears.’ ‘Go to the psychiatrists of Peshawar and Rawalpindi and ask them how many children, men and women from Swat they are treating these days. I bet the number will baffle you,’ said Ajmal Khan, a college student. The locals alleged that the military operation had killed more non-combatants than militants. The economic fallout of the conflict is ominous. Most of the 1,000 hotels have gone out of business. The rent-a-car business is also dying out. Shops dealing in CDs and operators of cable television have folded up after Maulana Fazlullah’s warnings. Barber shops have put up notices that they would not shave off beards as the Taliban have told them not to do so. A glitzy plaza caught my eye with its elegant shops, but sadly there were no shoppers. ‘Women are not allowed to enter the premises unless they are accompanied by men,’ read a banner fluttering over the entrance to the mall. A number of tailors said they had been told not to let women enter their shops. ‘The upper and middle classes are leaving the valley and settling down elsewhere,’ said Aleem Jan, a tailor making women’s suits. He is among many who are planning to move to either Mardan or Peshawar. Advertisement hoardings carrying pictures of women are disallowed. Faces of women in ads are blackened or deformed. A building housing the court is empty of lawyers and litigants as Taliban have decreed that the existing judicial order is un-Islamic. They have set up 73 sharia courts to administer ‘speedy justice’. These courts summon people on phone, threatening violators with death. And speedy justice it is indeed. They settle cases within a couple of days. Hence they are getting popular. ‘A summon from the court of Fazlullah is like a death warrant. No one dare disobey it,’ said Jamil Ahmed, a lawyer. Although he favoured the existing judicial system, he was all praise for the sharia courts as they decide cases in no time. Jamil cited the example of a woman whose plea for dissolution was decided the other day by a local court. The matter was lingering for the past 22 years. She had applied for dissolution of marriage at the age of 21 and now she is 43. The president of the Swat Bar Association, Aftab Alam, is against a parallel judiciary. But he too said judges should try to dispose of cases in ‘reasonable time’ to undercut the Taliban courts. Only two of the 14 policewomen who worked in the district court take the trouble to report for duty these days. But they wear veils and keep a low profile, mostly hiding themselves behind bushes. Almost all the legislators belonging to the ruling Awami National Party have fled from Swat. The exception is Afzal Khan Lala. All of them are on the Taliban’s hit list.   http://www.dawn.net/wps/wcm/connect/Dawn%20Content%20Library/dawn/news/pakistan/nwfp/tourist-heaven-turns-into-valley-of-fear-ha   From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Feb 4 19:57:42 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 14:27:42 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood In-Reply-To: <674470.47441.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <65be9bf40902021114g68ac97bbi88ae934087702f8c@mail.gmail.com> <674470.47441.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40902040627p2634d106w8d605b5bdb2610fc@mail.gmail.com> Dear Kshmendera Thank you for your response. May I say that I still do not understand your argument. The reason being, there seems to be a lack of clarity in your position. Let me explain why I think in this manner. I may be off the mark in thinking like this and I would look forward to your reply. But first my rational- We have been talking about MNIC. In other words one can argue that we have been discussing about MNIC. This discussion has been looking into the nature of a national identity card. This discussion has, at the same time, veered itself away from addressing any anxiety with respect to any (non-existent) policy implication. This is to suggest that this discussion or exchange of ideas have tried to inspect, inquire and investigate the idea of identity from as many different perspectives as possible. The Multiple Purpose National Identity Card is going to be National Identity Card for India. A National Identity Card, in a contemporary context, is a smart identity card. I have been trying to convey in all these mails that there seems to be a fundamental confusion regarding the most basic, most rudimentary idea of identity. It is like wondering, if a national identity card is like a wall made of bricks of identity, then, how can we have a wall that lasts, if we do not know the nature of a single brick used to make that wall. Any discussion on MNIC or any other national identity card or a smart identity card, which clearly lays down a rigorous analysis of the idea of such an identity document will invariably touch upon the idea of identity. Because for the most linear reason, which is this- Any identity card or identity document or a smart identity document, of which a national identity card in nothing, but a scalar extrapolation, not only emanates but follows through the works and reflections of people who for the last two thousand or so years have intermittently thought on and about, the idea of identity. In the thinking of these people the idea of identity is articulated through notional category of collective identity, categorical identity, subjective identity, objective identity, racial identity, gendered identity etc, not to forget individual identity. One way of looking at MNIC or any national identity card is to look at through the prism of knowledge. I do not think we could have been exchanging these mails had all those people had not thought or reflected or written their thoughts for the last two thousand or so years. Hence one will be not wrong to think that embedded, in the idea of a smart card or a national identity card, is the thought of these people on -identity-. The point being it follows that any comment or a value judgment on any discussing on MNIC card which is a smart card which is an identity document which puts to practice while borrowing the thoughts of people who have pushed the conceptual boundaries of identity forward should and must include a discussion or an exchange of arguments, on the idea of identity. Because any other form of engagement in this discussion would be irrational. For instance in order to understand the nature of boiled rice we have to closely look into and exercise reason and make efforts to know the nature of steam and properties of pressure and volume and heat and energy. And then we have to determine what causes what, which must be followed with further testing whether such an experiment could be replicated anywhere or whether such an experiment is bound by time and space. I do not think we can have a reasonable discussion on the nature of boiled rice without understanding how other variables work. In your last response, like in your responses earlier on many other threads on or about national identity cards, you have presented us with a view that because of a lack of grasp over the nature of the idea of identity you would like to be excused from participating in any such discussion. Fair Enough! Then we get to read this- > you did not 'trivialise' the topic of MNIC but you 'trivialised' the > discussion on it. What I understand is this, that in order to make a value judgment on any such matter, it is assumed that the person making such value judgments is in the know of things, knows what is being talked about, knows the discourse and knows the debate and in the light of all the knowledge takes a stance that X's utterance on Y topic is akin to 'trivializing' the discussion around it because discussion has evolved from A to B and f,g,h, i, j, k have said so and so these positions were refuted by so and so and agreed upon by so and so. In other words If for a moment we equate MNIC to boiled rice, which in many ways it is, like a finished product, then we need a thorough investigation of all the other variables which were used to prepare this product. What I do not understand is this, that how is one to measure the seriousness of someone's argument who while talking about the nature of boiled rice, excuses himself about clarifying his views on rice itself, forget about articulating any stance on temperature, volume, pressure, heat, water, steam or energy and then goes about passing value judgments. How is anyone to believe in the words of a person that such and such rice is delicious or bad or does not taste right or tastes awful. Regards Taha From vashsand at hotmail.com Wed Feb 4 20:04:05 2009 From: vashsand at hotmail.com (Sandeep) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 15:34:05 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear Message-ID: Kasjmendra Kaul wrote-- What Pakistan and Pakistanis and their supporters in Kashmir did to Kashmir, is now being done in Swat, Pakistan by it's own Pakistanis. and then there is link about SWAT. and i totally agree with that but what about extending the logic to karnataka one can say jihadi hindus r learning fast from their jihadi brethen across the border. Ram Sena now targets women's attire Vicky Nanjappa in Bengaluru Related Articles • There is a need to safeguard Indian culture' • Apply anti-terror laws against Mangalore attackers: Ananthamurthy • 'Shri Ram Sena is a confused organisation' Top Emailed Features • 'Friendships go beyond body,mind,heart'• 2009 Padma Award Winners• What Barack Obama said in his speech Have you tried this?• Ask a question• News on your Desktop Advertisements• Get astro tips here• Click to shop here• Find ur Dream Home http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/feb/04ram-sena-now-targets-womens-attire.htm Get news updates: What's this? Advertisement February 04, 2009 19:18 IST The Shri Ram Sena is sticking to its guns that it will not permit Valentine's Day celebrations and also warning that they will keep a watch on the kind of clothes women wear. After meeting with other activists of the Sena in Bengaluru [Images], its founder Pramod Muthalik [Images] said it was decided that the fight to safeguard the Indian culture would go on and there is no going back on this point. The Sena members unanimously decided to oppose Valentine's Day. Muthalik however added that their protests would be peaceful. A memorandum would be submitted to the chief minister and the Governor regarding this and they would be urged to help curb the celebration of Valentine's Day, which the Sena maintained is against Indian culture and should be prevented at any cost. Muthalik also said: "I have no problem with the manner in which a girl dresses up as long as it adheres to Indian culture. Skimpily clad women will not be tolerated and we would warn such girls. However at no point of time will we take the law into our hands." Meanwhile the Bangalore police is gearing to face any eventuality on February 14. Police sources say that they are fully prepared and that the day will be peaceful and the citizens will be safe http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/feb/04ram-sena-now-targets-womens-attire.htm _________________________________________________________________ News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now! http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Feb 4 20:10:15 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 14:40:15 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-85 Message-ID: <65be9bf40902040640g53393141idce2fa82904d3dd2@mail.gmail.com> http://www.hindu.com/2006/08/15/stories/2006081502111200.htm The Hindu Tuesday, Aug 15, 2006 Kalam for "comprehensive security" Special Correspondent Identifies major components as territorial, internal, energy and economic security NEW DELHI : President A.P.J. Abdul Kalam on Monday exhorted the citizens and officials to pool national energies to achieve "comprehensive national security" to defeat "challenges to peace from across our geographical borders, from terrorism and violence and from scarcities created by rapidly depleting natural resources." In a message to the nation on the eve of the 60th Independence Day, Mr. Kalam identified four major components: territorial security, internal security, energy security and economic security. "While we have the basic structure in the form of law, police cadres, intelligence agencies and judicial system, we need to reinforce them with required updates with a code of conduct. Every citizen, every group, every religion and every political and executive system should allow the law to function without interference," he said. Recalling his visit to Mumbai after the July 11 bomb blasts, Mr. Kalam noted how "the whole city of Mumbai expressed its deep sorrow and determination to combat terrorism with unity of minds. We must do this with a great sense of urgency for when evil minds combine, good minds have to work together and combat." Spelling out what it would take to mount a National Campaign to Eradicate Terrorism (NCET), the President said: "I believe the time has come to synergise our multiple agencies for forecasting and dealing with terrorist activities." Asking for "working together of the intelligence and security machinery both at the State and the Central levels," he said such "alert and dynamic movement would prevent hotels and homes being used as a shelter by terrorists and extremists." Pointing out that "there is a floating population in transition through residential areas, hotels and other similar places that could unknowingly be used for wrong purposes," Mr. Kalam proposed "national ID cards" and stressed the creation of "special monitoring methodology for unusual and abnormal banking transactions." Noting that true security meant energy security, the President briefly touched upon the topic of nuclear fuel. "The vast thorium resources of the nation should be harnessed by our scientists and technologists," he said. "I am confident that we have the capability to build our own thorium-based reactors." Asking the political, administrative, scientific and industrial communities to "cooperate intensely with each other," Mr. Kalam wanted formulation of a "vision, integrated missions, policies, plans and programmes for such comprehensive security for the nation to be safe, prosperous and happy." He told the country that he would be asking the Government and Parliament to (i) formulate a Citizens Security Bill, (ii) formulate an Energy Independence Bill, and (iii) adopt a resolution that "India will be transformed into a safe, prosperous, happy and socio-economically developed nation before the year 2020." National awakening At the outset, the President invoked the theme of "national awakening" and catalogued his experiences from travelling within India. He saluted "the existence of an indomitable spirit to succeed with the confidence that `we can do it' across the length and breadth of India." From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Feb 4 20:11:47 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 14:41:47 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-86 Message-ID: <65be9bf40902040641i1336da12r6a632c662b9c66a1@mail.gmail.com> http://www.business-standard.com/india/storypage.php?autono=4274&tp=on Business Standard Kalam calls for national approach to fight terrorism Press Trust of India / New Delhi August 14, 2006 Warning that the constant threat of low intensity proxy war and terrorism has become a disturbing feature of national life and a new face of war, President A P J Abdual Kalam today advocated a "national approach" to eradicate terrorism in all forms and to provide citizens security. Addressing the nation on the eve of the 60th Independence Day, he, however, skipped any reference to the controversial issue of Office of Profit, a legislation on which is pending before him for assent. Describing the issue of terrorism as one of national concern, the 75-year-old President said "we should transcend individual differences of opinion and address it with a sense of unity. This is the need of the hour." He referred to the recent Mumbai blasts and said the phenomenon of mindless violence was "continuously increasing." Seeking intense cooperation among political, scientific, administrative and industrial communities, he said the time has come for them to comprehensively take stock of the entire situation in all sectors of security. Commending a three-phased approach to comprehensive security, the President suggested to the Government and to both Houses of Parliament to formulate a Citizens Security Bill with a national campaign for eradication of terrorism, formulate an Energy Independence Bill and adopt a resolution that India will be transformed into a safe, prosperous, happy and socio-economically developed nation before 2020. Kalam, who had "national awakening" as the theme of his 14-page address, said "the constant threat of low intensity proxy war and terrorism have become a disturbing feature of national life. This constitutes the new face of war." Seeking synergising of multiple agencies for forecasting and dealing with terrorist activities, he said "we need to evolve a National Campaign for Eradicate Terrorism (NCET) in our nation with mission oriented integrated management structure and people's participation. "It has been recognised that terrorism does not take place without any planning. This may be originating from a master plan with global umbilical connectivity extending to homes or hotels and guest houses." He said NCET would facilitate working together of the intelligence and security machinery both at the state and the central level to achieve desired objectives besides acting as an alert and dynamic movement which would prevent hotels and homes being used as a shelter by terrorists and extremists. The President said the states could consider introduction of national identity cards and implement the National e-governance grid for all governemnt to government, governemnt to citizens, business to business and business to citizen transactions within two years time. Emphasising that accelerated development has to be integrated with peace missions, Kalam said the economic security of border regions would itself become complemntary to territorial security required in these zones. Highlighting the urgency to fight terrorism, the President said "when evil minds combine, good minds have to work together and combat." "While we have the basic structure in the form of law, police cadres, intelligence agencies and judicial system, we need to reinforce them with required updates with a code of conduct. Every citizen, every group, every religion and every political and executive system should allow the law to function without interference," the President said. Referring to the threat of extremists groups in the northeasterns parts, he said this required immediate, coordinated counter measures including effective negotiations for restoring normalcy coupled with economic development within the next three to five years. Kalam, who visited some of the Mumbai blast victims in hospital, said he felt the pain of many who lost their hearing ability, their limbs fractured and amputated and spinal injuries leading to permanent disability. The Maharashtra Government rose to the occasion to provide financial relief for medical support obtained from private hospital. Underpinning the need for sustained period of debate and decision making in Parliament and in Government for comprehensive national security "only in an environment of stable peace, can the nation concentrate on social and economic development. From A.Khanna at sms.ed.ac.uk Wed Feb 4 20:32:57 2009 From: A.Khanna at sms.ed.ac.uk (A Khanna) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 15:02:57 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] a kiss is just a kiss. or is it? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090204150257.ajs46nuiowkk0g4w@www.sms.ed.ac.uk> hi all, i was intrigued by a news article from the bbc, pasted below, on a case from the delhi high court where a charges of obscenity against a couple kissing in public were dropped. thought this might be an interesting juxtaposition with the ram sena's attacks in Mangalore. if any of the lawyers on the list could get hold of the actual judgement, do let me know, it would be interesting to read. and while i suspect that Justice Muralidhar did not treat the factum of marriage as the basis for his judgement, this report suggest as much. if this is the case, it begs the question of what if they weren't married? what if they were both women, or both men, or, one or both otherwise? is it that the form of heterosexual marriage enables the delicious act of kissing to be read as 'love'? and must a kiss be a manifestation of 'love' to be 'acceptable' in public, or more precisely, to not be considered an offense of obscenity? its a sad time when the upholding of the right to heterosexual monogamous legally sanctioned love amounts to a radical act. kisses, akshay .... India couple's kiss 'not obscene' A court in India has dismissed criminal proceedings against a married couple charged with obscenity for allegedly kissing in public in the capital. The Delhi high court judge wondered how an "expression of love by a young married couple" could attract an obscenity charge. Police arrested the couple - a 28-year-old man and a 23-year-old woman - for kissing near a station last September. Public displays of affection are still largely taboo in India. The police in Delhi had begun criminal proceedings against the couple for "sitting in an objectionable position near a metro (railway station) pillar and kissing due to which passersby were feeling bad". The maximum punishment for committing an "obscene act" is three months in prison. Judge S Muralidhar quashed the criminal proceedings. He said that even if police reports were accurate "it is inconceivable how... an expression of love by a young married couple would attract an offence of obscenity and trigger the coercive process of law". The judge expressed surprise that the couple had been picked up and charged by police despite officers being told that they were married. Controversies Reports say the couple denied in their petition to the court they were kissing. They said they were taking self portraits on their mobile phones. The lawyer who contested the case for the couple told a Delhi newspaper: "Obscenity charges are attracted when an act is so obscene that it encourages depravity or annoys the public. "In this case both these contents are missing, because the charge sheet is silent on any passersby as originally claimed." Kissing in public in India has triggered controversies in the past. In 2007, Hollywood actor Richard Gere sparked protests in India after kissing Celebrity Big Brother winner and Bollywood actor Shilpa Shetty at an Aids awareness rally in Delhi. The protesters said Gere had insulted Indian culture by kissing the hand and face of the actress. In 2005, a court in Rajasthan imposed a fine of $22 on an Israeli couple for kissing after getting married in a traditional Hindu ceremony in Pushkar. Priests were offended when the couple kissed and hugged during the chanting of religious verses. In 2004, Bollywood film star Kareena Kapoor began legal proceedings against a tabloid newspaper that published photos of her kissing her co-star. She and Shahid Kapoor said the photos were doctored and were not of them. Story from BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/world/south_asia/7866478.stm Published: 2009/02/03 09:47:14 GMT -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. From anujbhuwania at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 20:51:57 2009 From: anujbhuwania at gmail.com (Anuj Bhuwania) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 20:51:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] a kiss is just a kiss. or is it? In-Reply-To: <20090204150257.ajs46nuiowkk0g4w@www.sms.ed.ac.uk> References: <20090204150257.ajs46nuiowkk0g4w@www.sms.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: Am pasting J. Muralidhar's order below. The two people concerned being married is clearly not irrelevant in his order. But upholding the right to public display of affection for heterosexual monogamous legally sanctioned lovers has never ceased to amount to a radical act in India, as far as I know. IN THE HIGH COURT OF DELHI AT NEW DELHI 64. CRL.M.C. 283 of 2009 RAHUL MOOKERJI and ANR. ..... Petitioner Through: Mr. Trideep pais and Ms. Naomi Chandra, Advocates. versus STATE THR. N.C.T. OF DELHI and ANR. ..... Respondents Through: Mr. Pawan Behl, APP. CORAM: HON'BLE DR. JUSTICE S.MURALIDHAR O R D E R 02.02.2009 Crl.M.A.No.1073 of 2009 Exemption allowed subject to all just exceptions. The application is disposed of. CRL.M.C. 283 of 2009 and CRL.M.A. No. 1072 of 2009 (stay) 1. The facts brought to the notice of this Court by way of the present petition which seeks the quashing of proceedings arising out of FIR No. 581 of 2009 under Section 294/34 IPC are rather troubling. The Petitioners are a young couple, aged 28 and 23 years, who solemnized their marriage on 4th September 2008 at the Arya Samaj Mandir, Jamuna Bazar, Delhi apparently without the knowledge of their respective parents. They sought the services CRL.M.C. 283 of 2009 page 1/4 of a lawyer to get their marriage registered under the Hindu Marriage Act, 1955. The lawyer asked them to come to the Dwarka Court Complex on 18th September 2008 apparently to get some paper work done in regard to the registration of their marriage. While they were waiting under the Metro Station near the court complex at around 3 pm in the afternoon, an Assistant Sub-Inspector (?ASI?) of Police Vidyadhar Singh (No. D/3563 PIS No. 16960047) attached to the Police Station Dwarka along with a constable Roshan Lal (No. 1314/SW) accosted them and allegedly told them that he knew what they were up to. According to the FIR which was registered at the instance of the Vidhyadhar Singh, he found the two Petitioners ?sitting in an objectionable position near Metro Pillar No.1140 and were kissing each other. As a result of which the passersby were feeling bad.? (This is the English translation of the FIR which was registered in Hindi which corresponds to these words). 2. The FIR records that on enquiry the ASI found that Petitioner No.2 is the wife of Petitioner No.1 residing at the same address. Learned counsel for the Petitioners clarifies that in the complaint made to the Bar Council of India and to the Commissioner of Police although the addresses of the CRL.M.C. 283 of 2009 page 2/4 parties are shown as being in Greater Kailash, which is the permanent address of Petitioner No.1, this has been done for the sake of convenience. Since this was a love marriage without the knowledge of their respective parents, the address of Petitioner No.2 continues to be shown as being in Gurgaon. 3. What is striking is that despite the SI finding on enquiry that the two Petitioners were husband and wife living in the same place, he thought it fit to go ahead and register an FIR for an offence under Sections 294 read with 34 IPC. Although the FIR refers to ?passers by? being annoyed not a single name of any ?passer by? is found mentioned. Learned counsel for the Petitioners adds that the so-called investigation of the FIR has resulted in a charge sheet being filed on 30th January 2009 which does not refer to a single statement of any passer by recorded under Section 161 CrPC. To say the least, the FIR even when taken on its face value, does not make out a case for the offence under Section 294 read with 34 IPC. It is inconceivable how, even if one were to take what is stated in the FIR to be true, the expression of love by a young married couple, in the manner indicated in the FIR, would attract the offence of ?obscenity? and trigger the coercive process of the law. CRL.M.C. 283 of 2009 page 3/4 4. Notice. 5. Mr. Behl, learned APP for the State accepts notice. 6. The trial court record be produced before the next date of hearing. 7. Mr. Behl further states that he will also take specific instructions on the action taken on the complaint made on 27th October 2008 by the Petitioners to the Commissioner of Police which appears to have been received in the Office of the Commissioner of Police on that day itself by Ms. Shalini Singh, DCP, S/W. 8. There will be a stay of further proceedings arising out of FIR No. 581 of 2008 till further orders. 9. List on 25th February 2009. 10. Order dasti. S.MURALIDHAR, J FEBRUARY 02, 2009 dn CRL.M.C. 283 of 2009 page 4/4 On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 8:32 PM, A Khanna wrote: > hi all, > > i was intrigued by a news article from the bbc, pasted below, on a > case from the delhi high court where a charges of obscenity against a > couple kissing in public were dropped. thought this might be an > interesting juxtaposition with the ram sena's attacks in Mangalore. if > any of the lawyers on the list could get hold of the actual judgement, > do let me know, it would be interesting to read. and while i suspect > that Justice Muralidhar did not treat the factum of marriage as the > basis for his judgement, this report suggest as much. if this is the > case, it begs the question of what if they weren't married? what if > they were both women, or both men, or, one or both otherwise? is it > that the form of heterosexual marriage enables the delicious act of > kissing to be read as 'love'? and must a kiss be a manifestation of > 'love' to be 'acceptable' in public, or more precisely, to not be > considered an offense of obscenity? > > its a sad time when the upholding of the right to heterosexual > monogamous legally sanctioned love amounts to a radical act. > > kisses, > > akshay > .... > > India couple's kiss 'not obscene' > > A court in India has dismissed criminal proceedings against a married > couple charged with obscenity for allegedly kissing in public in the > capital. > > The Delhi high court judge wondered how an "expression of love by a > young married couple" could attract an obscenity charge. > > Police arrested the couple - a 28-year-old man and a 23-year-old woman > - for kissing near a station last September. > > Public displays of affection are still largely taboo in India. > > The police in Delhi had begun criminal proceedings against the couple > for "sitting in an objectionable position near a metro (railway > station) pillar and kissing due to which passersby were feeling bad". > > The maximum punishment for committing an "obscene act" is three months > in prison. > > Judge S Muralidhar quashed the criminal proceedings. > > He said that even if police reports were accurate "it is inconceivable > how... an expression of love by a young married couple would attract > an offence of obscenity and trigger the coercive process of law". > > The judge expressed surprise that the couple had been picked up and > charged by police despite officers being told that they were married. > > Controversies > > Reports say the couple denied in their petition to the court they were > kissing. They said they were taking self portraits on their mobile > phones. > > The lawyer who contested the case for the couple told a Delhi > newspaper: "Obscenity charges are attracted when an act is so obscene > that it encourages depravity or annoys the public. > > "In this case both these contents are missing, because the charge > sheet is silent on any passersby as originally claimed." > > Kissing in public in India has triggered controversies in the past. > > In 2007, Hollywood actor Richard Gere sparked protests in India after > kissing Celebrity Big Brother winner and Bollywood actor Shilpa Shetty > at an Aids awareness rally in Delhi. > > The protesters said Gere had insulted Indian culture by kissing the > hand and face of the actress. > > In 2005, a court in Rajasthan imposed a fine of $22 on an Israeli > couple for kissing after getting married in a traditional Hindu > ceremony in Pushkar. > > Priests were offended when the couple kissed and hugged during the > chanting of religious verses. > > In 2004, Bollywood film star Kareena Kapoor began legal proceedings > against a tabloid newspaper that published photos of her kissing her > co-star. > > She and Shahid Kapoor said the photos were doctored and were not of them. > > Story from BBC NEWS: > http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/world/south_asia/7866478.stm > > Published: 2009/02/03 09:47:14 GMT > > -- > The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in > Scotland, with registration number SC005336. > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Thu Feb 5 01:15:04 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 19:45:04 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Is anyone thinking about boycotting Pakistan? In-Reply-To: <817381.73030.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <716837190901270841x29fc13b4k22f7b7e09d649c8f@mail.gmail.com> <817381.73030.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: You could only be sure of a mute response. In case of Pakistan you are expected to maintain the 'dine & dance' bonhomie even while India conitinues to bleed at the hands of the Pakistan sponsored pan Islamists. One can only suspect the empathy being shown for the poor Palestinians since the bloody ethnic cleansing by the Pakistan loyal Kashmiri jihadis, of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits- co citizens of the most on this forum never evoked any such similar sentiment. On the contrary the perpetrators like Yassin Mallik who at the behest of his Pakistani masters along with his other jihadi cohorts brought death & destruction to our own Kashmir- in our own backyard, are being unashamedly eulogized on this forum. Regards all LA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 05:19:19 -0800> From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net; zainrahimtula1 at googlemail.com> Subject: [Reader-list] Is anyone thinking about boycotting Pakistan?> > Hi there,> I was wondering if anyone on the reader list (besides myself), or any organisations in India are thinking of organising a boycott of Pakistan, or maybe linking up with the international recognitions of Pakistan The Terrorist State........there are a number of sites and webpages with info on Pakistan as an epicentre for promoting/fomenting Terrorism across the Globe and therefore deserving of being boycotted internationally.......it would be also interesting to investigate India's relationship with Pakistan in view of the 'Hate Agenda' against India that Pakistan has been following and continues to follow. Please let me know, many thanks,> > Kshmendra> > > --- On Tue, 1/27/09, Zain Rahimtula wrote:> > From: Zain Rahimtula > Subject: [Reader-list] anyone thinking about boycotting israeli goods?> To: "sarai list" > Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 10:11 PM> > Hi there,> I was wondering if anyone on the reader list (besides> myself), or any organisations in India are thinking of organising a> boycott of Israeli goods, or maybe linking up with the international> solidarity movement (ISM)..there is a site with info on boycottiing Israel..> www.bds-palestine.net (bds stands for boycott, divestment,> sanctions)..it would be also interesting to investigate india's> relationship with israel, Please let me know, many thanks,> > Zain> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in> the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>> > > > _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Plug in to the MSN Tech channel for a full update on the latest gizmos that made an impact. http://computing.in.msn.com/ From vashsand at hotmail.com Thu Feb 5 01:23:41 2009 From: vashsand at hotmail.com (Sandeep) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 20:53:41 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] FW: a kiss is just a kiss. or is it? In-Reply-To: <20090204150257.ajs46nuiowkk0g4w@www.sms.ed.ac.uk> References: <20090204150257.ajs46nuiowkk0g4w@www.sms.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: From: vashsand at hotmail.comTo: a.khanna at sms.ed.ac.ukSubject: RE: [Reader-list] a kiss is just a kiss. or is it?Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 20:53:05 +0100 Akshay what ever u say extreme sexual anxity is part of hindu culture not only islam today. And Hindus r more stupid in this anxity competition than muslims. This south asian variant of human species feels pride in forgetting its own history and values . India is a country where sensualism was was made on object of somewhat scientif study (kamsutra) kalidas wrote erotic poems, our own lord Krishna was great seducer, women on mondays still offer milk to Great lord Shivas Phallus list endless. In islamic/christian/jewish religious practices u will never find this sort of eroticsm. And today these Hindu bafoons parade their stupidity by attacking pubs, not allowing kisses, enforcing dress code. Not knowing/remembering that what they r doing is actually quite islamic and victorian. In way its funny to watch these philistine Hindus forcing indians of all religions to somewhat islamic and /or victorian norms. It would be more honest if these specimen of human species i mean bajrangi, ram sena ppl etc to convert to islam and join some Lashkar Cheers Sandeep> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 15:02:57 +0000> From: A.Khanna at sms.ed.ac.uk> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: [Reader-list] a kiss is just a kiss. or is it?> > hi all,> > i was intrigued by a news article from the bbc, pasted below, on a > case from the delhi high court where a charges of obscenity against a > couple kissing in public were dropped. thought this might be an > interesting juxtaposition with the ram sena's attacks in Mangalore. if > any of the lawyers on the list could get hold of the actual judgement, > do let me know, it would be interesting to read. and while i suspect > that Justice Muralidhar did not treat the factum of marriage as the > basis for his judgement, this report suggest as much. if this is the > case, it begs the question of what if they weren't married? what if > they were both women, or both men, or, one or both otherwise? is it > that the form of heterosexual marriage enables the delicious act of > kissing to be read as 'love'? and must a kiss be a manifestation of > 'love' to be 'acceptable' in public, or more precisely, to not be > considered an offense of obscenity?> > its a sad time when the upholding of the right to heterosexual > monogamous legally sanctioned love amounts to a radical act.> > kisses,> > akshay> ....> > India couple's kiss 'not obscene'> > A court in India has dismissed criminal proceedings against a married > couple charged with obscenity for allegedly kissing in public in the > capital.> > The Delhi high court judge wondered how an "expression of love by a > young married couple" could attract an obscenity charge.> > Police arrested the couple - a 28-year-old man and a 23-year-old woman > - for kissing near a station last September.> > Public displays of affection are still largely taboo in India.> > The police in Delhi had begun criminal proceedings against the couple > for "sitting in an objectionable position near a metro (railway > station) pillar and kissing due to which passersby were feeling bad".> > The maximum punishment for committing an "obscene act" is three months > in prison.> > Judge S Muralidhar quashed the criminal proceedings.> > He said that even if police reports were accurate "it is inconceivable > how... an expression of love by a young married couple would attract > an offence of obscenity and trigger the coercive process of law".> > The judge expressed surprise that the couple had been picked up and > charged by police despite officers being told that they were married.> > Controversies> > Reports say the couple denied in their petition to the court they were > kissing. They said they were taking self portraits on their mobile > phones.> > The lawyer who contested the case for the couple told a Delhi > newspaper: "Obscenity charges are attracted when an act is so obscene > that it encourages depravity or annoys the public.> > "In this case both these contents are missing, because the charge > sheet is silent on any passersby as originally claimed."> > Kissing in public in India has triggered controversies in the past.> > In 2007, Hollywood actor Richard Gere sparked protests in India after > kissing Celebrity Big Brother winner and Bollywood actor Shilpa Shetty > at an Aids awareness rally in Delhi.> > The protesters said Gere had insulted Indian culture by kissing the > hand and face of the actress.> > In 2005, a court in Rajasthan imposed a fine of $22 on an Israeli > couple for kissing after getting married in a traditional Hindu > ceremony in Pushkar.> > Priests were offended when the couple kissed and hugged during the > chanting of religious verses.> > In 2004, Bollywood film star Kareena Kapoor began legal proceedings > against a tabloid newspaper that published photos of her kissing her > co-star.> > She and Shahid Kapoor said the photos were doctored and were not of them.> > Story from BBC NEWS:> http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/world/south_asia/7866478.stm> > Published: 2009/02/03 09:47:14 GMT> > -- > The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in> Scotland, with registration number SC005336.> > > _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Get news, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Check it out! _________________________________________________________________ News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now! http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Thu Feb 5 01:32:42 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 20:02:42 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] anyone thinking about boycotting israeli goods? In-Reply-To: <716837190901270841x29fc13b4k22f7b7e09d649c8f@mail.gmail.com> References: <716837190901270841x29fc13b4k22f7b7e09d649c8f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi dear, how about first reacting against Pakistan that has been bleeding India for the past two decades beginning with the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits in the valley & followed by scores of deadly terror attacks by the jihadis across India . What about 26-29/11 massacre by Pakistani pan islamists ? The blood of innocent unarmed Indians on the Mumbai pavements is still fresh ..... Regards all LA ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 22:11:24 +0530> From: zainrahimtula1 at googlemail.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: [Reader-list] anyone thinking about boycotting israeli goods?> > Hi there,> I was wondering if anyone on the reader list (besides> myself), or any organisations in India are thinking of organising a> boycott of Israeli goods, or maybe linking up with the international> solidarity movement (ISM)..there is a site with info on boycottiing Israel..> www.bds-palestine.net (bds stands for boycott, divestment,> sanctions)..it would be also interesting to investigate india's> relationship with israel, Please let me know, many thanks,> > Zain> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ For the freshest Indian Jobs Visit MSN Jobs http://www.in.msn.com/jobs From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Thu Feb 5 02:34:26 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 21:04:26 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice In-Reply-To: <47e122a70902020709g47d9fac6x4be284809c28f1fc@mail.gmail.com> References: <47e122a70902020709g47d9fac6x4be284809c28f1fc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Coming from the author of such a touching presentation like "na ches taty, na yeti"( i am neither there nor here) this attempt to surrect now almost abandoned 'original sinner' who founded the 'gun' culture in the valley at the behest of his Pakistani masters is intriguing. Kashmiris, in the past two decades have gone through the hell - the selective brutal targetting that led to the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits in the valley -the plight of ordinary Kashmiri Muslims who were coerced in to following the jihadi diktats- the destruction of the very social fabric called Kashmiriyat etc. etc.........& who claimed credit for having ferried weapons in to Kashmir to launch the jihad - the one you are trying to glorify. Please,understand he does not represent the Kashmiri Muslims - last year but for the timely intervention of the security forces his cohorts would have been lynched by the followers of that part time moolvi/separatist Umar Farooq when JKLF wanted to open an outlet in the territory of Umar Farooq only a couple of kilometres away from the JKLF fiefdom . The misery of exodus is not missed in your post but the frustration canot be justify glorification of a terrorist . It is difficult to guess the motive that has driven a well qualified artist towards a terror commander at whose instigation & motivation hundreds of docile Kashmiri Muslims, in the name of Islam,embraced death leaving behind their mothers ,widows & orphans wailling for their loved ones. It could be akin to the infatuation of that Napales damsel for that serial 'bikini killer' or it is all in the name of jihad......????.... Will marital bliss to this killer of Kashmiriyat make him repent for his deeds .......???..... Or is this a ploy to generate sympathy to escape the law.....????.......or part of a new game.....???..... Regards all LA ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:39:25 +0530> From: indersalim at gmail.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice> > Dear all> Please click the web site by Musaall Mullick, Fiancée of Yasin Malik,> the well known 'rebel' leader from Jammu and Kashmir. I think it is> interesting.> > http://mushaalmullick.com/default.aspx> > I have pasted this link, precisely to see some meaning in Yasin> Malik's choice. One of Musaall's water colour is titled 'Shame of the> Humanity'. It shows a young girl child who deserves all the attention.> > Yasin Malik has lot of admirers and critic around the world; that> applies even to Kashmir valley. Only time will tell us how seriously> he grasped the Kashmir issue.> > Perhaps, this latest step speaks something about his priorities.> Certainly, if SAS Geelani, his Hurriyat colleague, was young and> going to be married, he would not have chosen a girl like Musaall as> his Shareek-e-Hayyat ( better half ), but some one who would prefer to> stay behind veil all the time.> > One of the water colour of Musaall depicts a woman with a Bindi (> predominately used by Hindu women ). What does that mean? It means, a> Swat Valley like situation is certainly not Yasin Malik's cup of tea,> but something which has a space for freedom, freedom of choice,> particularly for women.> > Only time will tell us whether Yasin's Malik's Safar-e-Azadi will take> Kashmir on the path which is meaningful for both Musaall-Malik jodi> but People in general as well. There is ray of hope hidden in his> choice to wed a painter living in London. Imran Khan, the> cricketer-politician did almost similar to that, but failed to mix his> choice with his political vision. Will Yasin too follow Imran, or will> he let Musaall speak her mind freely ?> > Kashmir is seriously looking forward to see someone who speaks boldly> about the situation of women in J&K. For example, no woman in J&K has> any legal rights to retain a square inch of land in case she happens> to get married to a non-J&K citizen. That is truly against Women. But> slowly, I want Yasin to speak about this issue as well, even at the> cost of popularity. No previous govt has dared to speak about this> issue. The present Govt in J&K too will never support any idea like> that. So, he can outwit them on this account. This is golden chance.> Things like that can bring some real changes for a smooth and> dignified return of Kashmiri Pandits to Valley.> > The other issue is environment, which is as serious as Women's issues.> I have not gone though his agenda of Safray-Azadi but I wish issues> like that are thoroughly woven in his Azadi text. He needs to speak> about the need to protect the flora and fauna in J&K, besides a> sincere call for a simple living. He needs to talk about the revival> of folk arts and other forms of artistic expressions.> > This I am writing at a time when J&K is entering a special post free> election phase for a great good governance. But that is that. We still> have KASHMIR ISSUE, staring into our eyes as before. So, when every> other intellectual in India is dismissive about Hurriyat who obviously> gained nothing by giving Boycott call for Elections; I see them very> much there, as significant as ever.> > Indeed people like me who were victims of 1990 approach to Kashmir> Problem, but I believe, that some fresh approach is needed to> understand Kashmir. It just happens that Kashmir is a Muslim Majority> area, but Kashmir is not a Muslim problem, but a problem similar to> Buddhist Tibet. There has to be some inner need to understand the> troubles which a line called 'territory' inflicts on us. Why Kashmir> was divided. What is LOC after all?> > I know, there will be lot of angry reaction to this small mail, but I> hope some restraint, and cool minded approach. I am truly myself> looking for some answers. I don't see a great politician around with> some vision to bring a real change in our society, both at grass root> level and beyond.> > Capitalistic and narrow minded politics has ruined our systems of> living, and we are left with a situation like in Gaza where Israel is> openly killing women and children. Europe and America are silent,> which means they are not bothered by Palestine problem as they see it.> So, Hamas is bad, even when they have people's support.> > So, imagine, if tomorrow Hurriyat decides to fight elections in J&K ,> and if they come to power and declare freedom on the very first day of> office, what choice India has? Arrest them there, with head lines> against Indian Democracy all over the world. So, is non-participation> is a blessing in disguise for Indian Government ?> > Let us talk to Yasin, more meaningfully, than before. I am talking> on my own behalf.> > With love and regards> Inder salim> > > --> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Wish to Marry Now? Join MSN Matrimony FREE! http://www.in.msn.com/matrimony From lawrence at altlawforum.org Thu Feb 5 10:41:33 2009 From: lawrence at altlawforum.org (Lawrence Liang) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 10:41:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] a kiss is just a kiss. or is it? In-Reply-To: References: <20090204150257.ajs46nuiowkk0g4w@www.sms.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi all Apologies for a long post, but hope it is of some interest to those of us invested in the physical and smbolic acts of kissing, as well as of the law. I think given the current atmosphere of moralpolicing, this is a very welcome order, (the judge begins by acknowledging the troubling nature of a case like this being brought t cout, and ends by saying that it is inconceiveable how an expression of love, albeit between a married couple, could be obscene) I think the question of whether it is radical or not is a misdirected one. It instead might be more useful to use the order as a way of thinking about the relationshiop of law to diverse states of being, of emotional expression and the limits of the law. The question is not whether it is a radical act or not, rather it may be understood in terms of how is that the law comes to judge a kiss, and in doing so, what conceptions of the kiss does it evoke: Does it have a rich understanding of the kiss or a poor one? If the entire issue is indeed decided on the basis of the appropriate space of intimacy, whether it should be conducted publicly or privately, then where do we turn to even understand the Laws of intimacy? If the kiss is the object of objection, then what are the ways in which we deal with this object? For instance do we deal with it, on its own terms ( a good kiss v, a bad one, a real kiss v. a fake one) or do we have to constantly mobilize other resources (Public v. private, married v. non married?) If kissing in public is against the idea of Indian culture, what are the sources beyond some general invocation of Indian culture that is being relied on? Because given the publicness of our erotic temples, surely it cant be the case that public display of erotic affection is a civilizational anomaly. I would like to draw your attention to a marvelous article which addresses many of these questions. *Peter Goodrich, The Laws of Love: Literature, History and the Regulation of kissing: 24 N.Y.U Rev. L & Soc. Change, 183(1998)* For the benefit of those who may not have access to the article, I am summarizing and extracting from the article which opens out exciting ways in which we can think of the relationship between the kiss and the law. Goodrich argues that the while the law is often called upon to address the appropriateness of intimate erotic acts occurring in public and quasi-public spaces, we must acknowledge that the lawyers are also not, by any training or special knowledge the best legislators of kissing. As a result, when such disputes do arise, the consequences are that the results that emerge are usually couched in negative terms. Thus certain forms of affection are banned from public spaces; The ability to determine these matters suggest that the law has a theory of the role of eros and intimacy in making of a public world; But if the law is a specific body of knowledge that derives its authority over the world through memory ( as enshrined as precedent), then the question is where do such precedents lie? Goodrich argues that the common law may not be the best site for understanding the kiss, but it is not an act whose regulation is beyond comprehension or even historical evidence. Goodrich then lays out a fascinating history of the regulation of kissing, particularly as it developed in the history of Christianity, and then in medieval Europe in the courts of love and literature. According to him, Christianity, which was a religion of the 'logos' or word and connected Truth with the "sermo humilis" and the pentecostal speaking in tongues, and knowledge came from the lips. On of the early Christian commentaries speaking on the Song of Songs, says that the kiss was the principal form of salvation in that it was through the kiss of knowledge that the word would be passed from Christ to his followers. Thus, when the Song of Songs famously importunes "[l]et him kiss me with the kisses of his Mouth", it is illumination of the soul, divine grace, for which the supplicant pleads." The kiss was thus the union of the word and the soul. In the exchange of breath that takes place in kissing, two souls would intermingle and unite. The insufflation of the kiss was an inhalation of knowledge, and constituted an exchange that was spiritual rather than sexual, and institutional rather than carnal. Si in early Christianity, the kiss aided in the development and intensification of community which leads the faithful eventually to a knowledge of God. Goodrich then traces the rather elaborate doctrinal history that accompanies this idea of the sacred character of the kiss. He shows us of rinstance a taxonomy of kissing which ranges from the osculum pads, or kiss of brotherhood, which was a physical kiss, a kiss on the mouth, but one which was exchanged as a sign of truth and of peace. Then you have the spiritual kiss, a kiss that took place not by virtue of the meeting of mouth or contact of lips but by the joining of the affections of the mind, and it was this kiss that enabled believers to mingle and unite in the single body of the Church. Finally, the highest level of the kiss, the intellectual embrace, was in a sense the prolongation of the spiritual kiss. A spiritual kiss of sufficient intensity and duration would transcend the bodies of those that embraced and rather than being the friend or Christian brother that was kissed and being kissed it was now Christ who was kissed and being kissed through the creature or lips of the believer. But here comes the catch, stages of the Christian kiss, could be mimicked by the unfaithful and so lead not to salvation or knowledge but to a corporeal desire marked by ignorance and deceit. The false kiss treated the lips of the other not as the sign of, and means of access to, an invisible grace, but rather as an end in themselves, as sensual presence and the means of a purely carnal embrace. the sin of idolatry was depicted as being that of allowing sight to terminate upon the physical representation or plastic form of faith, so too the plain kiss which when used by non believers, it became a false kiss, which ended its quest for satisfaction upon the body of the subject kissed. The face of the other here became a false image, an idol upon which desire in the form of the kiss both doted and fed. Goodrich's interest in laying out he history of the regulation of kissing as it emerges in Christianity is also to understand the development of the language from where kisses are understood, and what kind of inheritances, the modern legal system may have drawn from in their understanding of the regulation of amorous activities. He says *"In contemporary and more pluralistic doctrinal contexts, the specific resonances of impurity, heresy, or paganism, attached to false kisses is less important than the language and classificatory schemata through which the art and practice of kissing was made accessible and available to some species of judgment. This early law on kissing had a remarkable and peculiarly radical theoretical perspicuity. Specifically, it recognized and acknowledged an erotic charge, a substrate of desire or indeed libidinal economy,' that not simply underpinned but literally constituted community. Desire pervaded the social, and eros, as motive or as expression, was acknowledged to be present in all institutional relationships as a dimension not only of power but of speech as such. The importance of the early law of kissing thus lies primarily in its ability to acknowledge and address the role of desire in all forms of social contact or institutional intercourse. So too, rather than attempting to deny or exclude public expressions of erotic desire, the doctrine of kissing attempted rather to understand and map an art and practice of embrace that both acknowledged the pervasive value of desire and limited inappropriate forms of its expression through a code, an epistemic, of the relation of kissing to truth. Love, in other words, required expression, and this was recognized to be as true of the polity as of the domestic sphere. It remains to point out that in the literary tradition of the courts of love, this insight into the relation between desire, community and knowledge, gains further and vivid elaboration. In kissing, in tasting the other,124 we come to know them in their difference and in their desire, and we come also to know what is possible, what lies in the future of our love". * Goodrich then goes on to examine the regulation of the kisses in courtly love, in literature and in the fascinating courts of love. He writes of a mid-fifteenth century case reported in Martial d'Auvergne, Les Arréts D 'Amour, which was heard before the Court of Flowers, where a woman complained that she had been amongst friends in a public garden when her lover had happened to come upon her and had joined her. According to her complaint, he had come up beside her and "pretending to want to say something private in her ear, he had lifted the hood of her cape and suddenly had kissed her.""' Her complaint was that this kiss had embarrassed her in front of her friends. It was, at least in her argument, to be treated as if it had been stolen in public: it was larrecin publique or public larceny of a kiss. Her request to the Court was that in the future her lover should be forbidden to approach her or touch her in public."' For his part, the impugned lover claimed that when he chanced upon his lover he took the opportunity to whisper declarations of love in her ear and while doing so had slipped. In consequence his lips had brushed against her ear and her cheek. This could hardly, in his view, be regarded as a kiss."' Upon deliberation the Court held that the complaint was badly made. It could not be public theft of a kiss for a lover to surprise his beloved with so innocent and amorous a declaration and act. A lover should not be embarrassed by a public kiss but should rather welcome the attention and the honesty of the expression. It was ordered that when the couple next met in public the woman should kiss her lover openly and freely. In his commentary on that case, Benoit de Court argues that the laws of love had always recognized the finely marked differences between different types of kiss. Thus a kiss between lovers in an open place was a legitimate and desirable expression of affection, provided that the kiss was not overlong or too salacious. It was not theft, he concluded, publicly to kiss a lover, "so long as the hands did not wander lasciviously, and so long as there was no biting of the lips." The kiss was thus held to belong quite properly within the public sphere, as also within the institution, and should not be hidden or furtive but rather declared and indulged. The domain of love, therefore, did not recognize arbitrary divisions between private and public, or between intimacy and institution. The kiss belonged to an economy of desire that both subtended and exceeded the public domain of secular or venal interaction. Kissing was the usual form not only of entry into the domain of love but more formally of sealing the agreement of love or alliance d'amour whereby lovers committed themselves to each other and publically declared an undying allegiance to the cause and space of their mutual desire. Goodrich's argument is simply, that the questions of love are best judged according to laws of love. Simple, and indeed alliterative, though this proposition might appear, its implications for legal thought are radical. That love should have its laws means at the very least that the ailing modern concept of a single jurisdiction and uniform agonistic procedure for all legal cases should be abandoned explicitly. At its simplest, it does not make sense to litigate emotions as if they were proprietary benefits or duties. Nor does it speak well of the legal enterprise to assume that a substantive law that historically has ignored the emotions and left the sphere of intimacy to the private realm, to the law of the father, is the appropriate or only source of precedents for the development of the rules that are to govern the expressions of desire in the public world. - From javedmasoo at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 11:11:48 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (M Javed) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 11:11:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Is anyone thinking about boycotting Pakistan? In-Reply-To: References: <716837190901270841x29fc13b4k22f7b7e09d649c8f@mail.gmail.com> <817381.73030.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: How does one boycott Pakistan? Haven't we already done that by not playing cricket with them. But interestingly, while we boycott Pakistani cricket team because of the Mumbai terror, we play cricket with Sri Lankans who are killing so many Tamils in Sri Lanka. Why can't we boycott them as well. (and interestingly, Sri Lanka has decided to play cricket with Pakistan any way). I think the only way to fully boycott Pakistan is to simply eject the entire landmass of that country from the planet earth and send it spiralling into outer space - that's the only way the terrorism can be solved. Then the empty space will be filled with the water from the Arabian sea and it may actually solve the problem of global warming. Maybe we can tag along Afghanistan too with (Osama will certainly leave earth then) and send them to outer space - they will also meet the Iranians there (who have just sent their satellite). Good way to solve many problems in one go. On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 1:15 AM, Lalit Ambardar wrote: > > You could only be sure of a mute response. > > In case of Pakistan you are expected to maintain the 'dine & dance' bonhomie even while India conitinues to bleed at the hands of the Pakistan sponsored pan Islamists. > > One can only suspect the empathy being shown for the poor Palestinians since the bloody ethnic cleansing by the Pakistan loyal Kashmiri jihadis, of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits- co citizens of the most on this forum never evoked any such similar sentiment. > > On the contrary the perpetrators like Yassin Mallik who at the behest of his Pakistani masters along with his other jihadi cohorts brought death & destruction to our own Kashmir- in our own backyard, are being unashamedly eulogized on this forum. > Regards all > LA From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 11:11:57 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 11:11:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] J&K 2008: Let us not learn the wrong lessons Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902042141j2d7af363kf7bae329c866fd50@mail.gmail.com> J&K 2008: Let us not learn the wrong lessons Ajay Chrungoo http://www.vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisplayArticle.aspx?id=378 The 2008 elections are now over. A power shift has taken place. The PDP-Congress alliance has been replaced in the state by the NC-Congress alliance. The Chief Ministership has reverted back to a Kashmiri for full six years, if the alliance lasts that long. All the major portfolios like home, finance, planning, revenue and power have been retained by the National Conference, signifying the retrieval of the status quo of power. This status quo had marginally changed during the PDP-Congress alliance. There are attempts to analyse the assembly verdict in Jammu & Kashmir through the traditional 'secular' prism and draw inferences which are either false or far-fetched. Wrong assessments will eventually affect the success or failure of the 'government' which has been catapulted to power at a critical time when a stand-off between India and Pakistan is building in intensity. *Understanding the failure of Boycott* The turnout of voters in this election, particularly in the Kashmir valley, has been phenomenal, more than 50% on average. It is a big victory for the electoral process in the Kashmir Valley. Many an eminent Kashmir analyst in New Delhi had prophesied that, "the government will be lucky if they get more than 10 percent people to come out and vote." Out of all segments of people living in Jammu & Kashmir, only Kashmiri Pandits abstained from voting. Their vote percentage was less than 10% and that too despite the fact that more than 43 Pandit candidates were in the electoral fray and there was also no boycott call. Both the factions of Hurriyat Conference campaigned for boycott of elections well before the onset of elections. JKLF through its protracted 'Safar-e-Azadi' campaign focused eventually on poll boycott at the conclusion of its rallies and interactions across the length and breadth of the Valley. Mirwaiz Omar Farooq, Chairman of the All Party Hurriyat Conference, had declared with confidence that "there will be 100 percent poll boycott." Ali Shah Geelani, to enlarge the appeal of 'boycott slogan,' even praised JKLF chief Yasin Malik and stated "we want boycott Safar-e-Azadi way." Analysts who conclude that the 2008 elections have been a decisive rebuff to separatists essentially underline the 'boycott call' as the only indispensable strategy of the separatists. The flexibility and the deftness of the strategic interventions of Separatists in the Valley get overlooked in this formulation. The Separatists' establishment does give consideration to all such tactics which de-legitimise the democratic process in the state. But they have always valued deepening of its entrenchment in the power structures within the state. Separatism in the Valley has always considered its reach and sway to influence and control the elected governments in the state as its primary support structure, perhaps as important as the support of Pakistan. De-legitimising elections by labelling them as rigged or coerced process, or by campaigning for boycott, are not simple black and white imperatives which the Separatists pursue. They operate more in the grey area where they engage directly or indirectly in the election process. They influence the election manifesto and party policies of the political formations participating in elections. They influence the selection of candidates; they throw up proxy candidates. The most essential objective which is pursued is not to allow any paradigm shift in state policy and ensure that subversive entrenchment is only deepened, never eroded. The entire spectrum of separatist strategies has evolved over a period of time. Ali Shah Geelani got himself elected to the state assembly, but relentlessly challenged the Indian constitution and debunked the election process. Jamaat-i-Islami portrayed the National Conference as its ideological rival in Kashmir and squarely blamed it for the accession of Jammu & Kashmir to India. Anti-Jamaat rivalry manifested in the streets when massive anti-Jamaat riots were led by NC cadres. But this rivalry was not a black and while phenomenon. A symbiotic relationship between the NC and Jamaat, particularly in the electoral sphere, existed right till 2002. Jamaat cadres would mobilise voters for NC,and NC would reciprocate by increasing Jamaat entrenchment in the administration. Jamaat and other separatist formations built the same symbiotic relationship with the newly formed PDP well before 2002, and carried it right through the elections in 2008. There was, of course, a conflict of interests between separatist formations including Jamaat-i-Islami and PDP which came into the public domain in the last few years. Separatists visualised PDP as a usurper of its agenda. The stand off between PDP and separatist formations would have continued, but the terrorist attack in Mumbai changed the course of events in the Valley. Increased isolation of Pakistan and pressures on separatists' feeder channels made Jamaat-i-Islami change track. Mufti, as per reports, had been intensely campaigning for their support. It is difficult to comment as to when exactly Jamaat decided to come out whole hog in support of PDP, but its involvement in the elections started manifesting right after the first phase, and rose to a crescendo in later phases. Top Jamaat leaders were seen openly campaigning for PDP in Kulgam, Shopian, Pulwama. Analysts read too much into the anti-election rhetoric of Ali Shah Geelani, but ignored the traditional line of Jamaat-i-Islami which maintained distance from boycott call and cautioned that in the prevailing political scenario such a stance may prove 'counter-productive.' One thing is very clear. The separatist establishment intervened in the election process not to boycott as was their public stance, but actually to increase the turnout of voters. This assessment does not at all indicate that even if separatists would have campaigned aggressively for boycott, they would have actually succeeded. In that eventuality, voter turnout would have been less, but certainly an improvement over the 2002 elections. *Other factors* The rural-urban divide in the Valley and developmental issues were a dominant consideration for the people. Sweeping inferences are being drawn by some analysts in Delhi that the growth of PDP in the Valley is primarily a reflection of rural-urban divide, rather than of a communal campaign. But many credible analysts have come out openly to record that PDP campaign had a brazen communal character. Noted columnist Parveen Swami states, "for the PDP, the returns from the incendiary communal campaign it ran this summer, as well as its efforts to reach out to secessionists have been disappointing." Immediately after the election results were declared, Dr. Farooq Abdullah openly accepted that the PDP ran a campaign on 'Islamist agenda'. Many residents of Kulgam area confided in their Pandit friends that Ms. Mehbooba Mufti was openly telling voters to choose between a 'school or a mosque'. "We are for Mosque. If you choose a Mosque, a school will automatically come. But not the other way." PDP in its expositions has been identifying with Muslim causes globally, more than NC. It has sought to project 'Self-rule" as more in consonance with the movement of pan-Islamism rather than of Kashmiri aspirations. However, underplaying the rural-urban divide as an important influence on the elections will be equally incorrect. Rural-Urban divide has evolved in the Kashmir Valley with the emergence of a large rural middle class over the years, as reflected by the emergence of Mufti Mohd. Sayeed, late Abdul Gani Lone, Jamaat-i-Islami and MuF. This time PDP made significant inroads into North Kashmir. PDP won six seats there, while the NC has done marginally better by winning seven seats. Central Kashmir, extending between Kangan and Ganderbal with Srinagar as its core, has been virtually swept by the National Conference. However, PDP retained its stranglehold on South Kashmir where it won 12 out of 16 seats. The better performance of PDP is a reflection of the urge of the rural political class to control political power. This rural-urban rivalry has deepened over the years and now spilled into the public domain. Previously this divide was subdued, but now it has burst into the open and its reverberations can still be heard. Recently, M.G. Hassan Mukhtar, a freelance journalist, wrote in Kashmir Times: "The original citizens of Srinagar treat all villagers as second class irrespective of the language they speak. If a villager goes to moon the urbanities would never digest it and rather pull his legs... In reality the superiority complex (read inferiority complex of foolishness) of urban fellows on the basis of nothing towards villagers is not a good thing." In Srinagar this bitterness can be gauged by a cursory talk on politics at a vegetable vendors' shop or a burger shop. The increased developmental process in rural areas during the PDP-Congress regime has heightened the divide. Mufti used the Prime Minister's Gram Sadak Yojna to build extensive road connectivity, particularly in South Kashmir. Any village with a population of 500 or more was connected by a metalled road. A large portion of the 24,000 crore special aid package to Kashmir was spent in rural areas. Creation of development authorities in Gulmarg, Tangmarg Pahalgam, Sonmarg and many other places hastened the developmental process in rural areas which translated into political benefits for Mufti. Mufti has not only used the fundamentalist card and soft secessionist slogans, but also the rural-urban divide and developmental slogans to stabilise his party. The NC retained its previous number of 28 in the assembly; PDP increased its tally from 18 to 21. In 2008 elections there has been an overall swing of 5 percent in favour of PDP, which has shown a tendency to grow all over the Valley and made a dent in certain areas of Jammu. Chief Minister Omar Abdullah acknowledged this trend openly: "the results definitely gave a fair idea that PDP is making inroads everywhere in Valley. I think we need to take stock of it." *Jammu results * Belittling the communal contours of PDP's rise, 'liberal' analysts infer a rise of communal stridency in the Jammu region which columnists like Prem Shankar Jha describe as 'historical,' as if it is integral to the attitude of people in Jammu. Even a better informed journalist like Parveen Swami does not contest such sweeping generalizations and comments that "despite the apparently dramatic improvement in BJP's fortunes, which have taken it from just one seat in 2002 to 11 now, Hindu chauvinism hasn't yielded exceptional pay-offs." The massive support to the Amarnath agitation in Jammu and heightened consciousness about the systematic and organised discrimination meted out to Jammu is an expression of Hindu chauvinism for 'liberal' intellectuals in India. This is perhaps expression of a faulty vision which recognises concessions to Muslim identity politics in J&K as a secular imperative. In Jammu province, Congress won 13 seats and BJP 11 seats. There was almost a 3 percent negative swing against Congress and a 10 percent swing in favour of the BJP. The latter was the runner-up in 13 seats and number three in 7 constituencies in Jammu region, which means it has now decisively staked its claim for at least 30 constituencies in Jammu. But is the rise of BJP an outcome of communal polarisation in the aftermath of Amarnath agitation? Certain features of the election outcome in Jammu have to be recognised to answer this question. BJP candidates lost in most of the constituencies where the intensity of Amarnath agitation was high. It suffered defeat in Kathua, Billawar, Samba Vijaypur, Bishnah, Gandhi Nagar, Chhamb, Akhnoor Udhampur, Chenani and Ramban. Mostly Congress candidates won from these constituencies, with one each going to National Conference and JK National Panthers Party. Congress lost to BJP in constituencies where the Amaranth agitation was weak, like Reasi, Basohli and Bani. The defeat of Shilpi Verma, widow of Kuldeep Verma, martyr of Amarnath agitation, is revealing. Also notable is the fact that Congress candidates who won had a better record as MLA's or ministers and also supported the Amarnath agitation. Sham Lal Sharma from Akhnoor and Raman Bhalla from Gandhi Nagar are the best examples of this. Almost all Congress ministers in the previous assembly lost this time, such as Mangat Ram Sharma and Gulchain Singh Charak. They did not come out openly in favour of Amarnath agitation. Even star campaigners of BJP like L.K. Advani, Rajnath Singh, Narendra Modi, Arun Jaitly, Murli Manohar Joshi, Navjot Singh Sidhu could not succeed in wooing voters against Congress candidates who had performed well as sitting MLAs and unambiguously identified with the sentiment of Jammu. *Sidelights* It may be pertinent to record some observations for the future. Sakina Itoo won from South Kashmir against the tide of Islamists. Mohd. Yusuf Tarigami of CPM defeated his PDP rival for whom Jamaat led a no-holds-barred campaign. Mr. Tarigami, who at every opportunity supported the separatists' cause and undermined the exodus of Kashmiri Pandits, seemed trailing almost to the end of the counting process, only to sail across after a few hundred Pandit votes cast in his favour were counted towards the end. Kashmiri Pandit votes cast in small numbers showed preference for the NC where the main choice was between NC and PDP. Dr. Shafi of PDP won from Beerwah constituency by a mere 124 votes, which included 80 votes from KP's. This may be an exception because he was favoured not for his party affiliation and was considered a better person having close relationship with the Pandits of his constituency. Congress won 3 seats from Kashmir Valley, and did well in 5 more constituencies. It has at least a clear demarcated chunk of 10 assembly seats to work for in the next elections *Conclusion* The 2008 mandate can stabilise the situation if NC plays its cards well. After 2002 elections, the NC adopted a policy line of mirroring or aping the PDP line. It changed its policy on Pakistan and terrorism hoping to steal a march ahead of the PDP. At election time, the fundamentalist establishment and Pakistan made a choice in favour of the PDP, leaving it in the lurch. Will NC ride the same ideological bandwagon? Congress has survived on the edge. Will it ignore its legislative base as it has done in the past and loose its relevance in Jammu? BJP enthused by the response of the people during the elections, and hoping to win around 25 seats, threw enough hints that it was ready to join hands with the PDP or NC to come to power. It has shown willing to dispense with its ideological baggage, for which it still has space in Jammu. Will it play the power game or the role of an instrument to bring a fundamental change in power balance in favour of Jammu? CPM has survived as a sole presence in the present assembly from Kulgam constituency in Kashmir Valley. Jamaat declared it a party of 'Kuffar' but people still voted it to power in a stiff battle. Will CPIM still flirt with Muslim communalism and separatism as it has done so far? The future in J&K is pregnant with possibilities, good and bad. * Dr. Ajay Chrungoo is chairman, Panun Kashmir * From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 11:16:44 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 11:16:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Swat - Paradise Lost Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902042146o6522ddb2s55da9ef3bc1391e7@mail.gmail.com> Swat the most beautiful land in the South Asian Region other than Kashmir, where the peaks overlooking the valley were covered in snow, as what was the countryside as you drive along the partly frozen Swat River. People happily recalling their various trips to this magical valley in which one would enjoy its lush green land, the scenic beauty of the vegetated woodlands, the dry fruits trees with all its fruits dangling from the branches, the aroma of blooming flowers, the herbal medicinal aura and the hospitable people who live there. Today one would be sadly sorry for all those who can no longer venture out there! But apart from the many tourists who would forever be denied the beauty of this place, I pity the people of Swat who have been so badly let down by the Pakistani state and its people. Tens of thousands have been forced to flee their homes, as Swat descends deeper and deeper into chaos and despair everyday. 'Mullah Radio' was the name given to Maulana Fazlullah for his daily FM broadcasts in which he calls, among the other things; for people to stop their children from getting anti-polio shots. According to him, the government teams going around immunizing children against this dreaded disease are actually making them sterile. The Muslim Ummah is being subjugated to the evils of the Yahoudhi (Jew) lobbies??? Terrified, the paramedics halted their efforts in Swat. As they are scathed, beaten and even kidnapped for ransom from the International Donors to finance their Jihads for Islam. Many intellectuals had written to the Pakistani Government, that they should immediately put a stop to the maulana's illegal broadcasts. But this was before 9/11, at a time when President Musharraf was wooing the mullahs and the jihadis for his and his government's own benefits. So Mullah Radio and his band of merry men kind, gathered strength and gained supporters, confident that the authorities would not lay a finger on them. And now that push has finally come to shove, the Pak Army has discovered that it does not have the muscle to displace these militants who have taken over Swat completely. In a sobering article last week in a local newspaper, Zubeida Mustafaunderlined the plight of the people of Swat, and asked "why there were no large protests against the killers who were terrorizing the valley". Why not indeed? It is a sad fact that while we Pakistanis are (rightly) incensed over the recent assault on Gaza by the Israelis, and other attacks on Muslims by non-Muslims in the Kashmir region, we choose to turn a blind eye by even worse Muslim-on-Muslim atrocities. Thus, most editorial writers, columnists and TV commentators reserve their fury and invectiveness for western targets, while glossing over what Muslims are actually doing to their fellow Muslim countrymen. In Swat, there have been grisly beheadings and public executions. Every evening, Shah Doran broadcasts names on the militant hit-list, presumably on Mullah Radio's old FM frequency. When some journalist asked at a news briefing by the Pak Army's version of the story was that 'we cannot jam the signal of Mullah Radio's FM frequency, as we do not have the required latest jamming instruments". The American Government has been financing Pakistan on "War on Terror" since 9/11 with logistics, intelligence and even the latest technology support. This is all bullshit! Imagine the Pak Army does not the required instruments???? Whom are they fooling? "Nearly 260 girls' schools have been blown up or torched. Scores of video rental shops and hair-cutting establishments have been attacked and forced to shut down. Women dare not leave their homes, and more than 80,000 girls have been deprived of an education!!! Currently, some 4,000 militants are battling 12,000 troops for control of the valley, and thus far, the terrorists are winning. According to reporters who have been covering the conflict, the Pak Army has been reluctant to engage the enemy, preferring to lob artillery shells in the general direction of militant redoubts in the mountains. As soon as night falls, our soldiers retreat into their camps while the jihadis rule the valley. In their ranks are a large number of fighters with Central Asian features. If this situation has been allowed to develop in Swat, an integral part of the North Western Frontier Province, and not a tribal area, imagine what things must be like in Waziristan and Mohmand agencies. Clearly, things are rapidly spinning out of control, and the government cannot establish its writ over large parts of the country. Many efforts have been made to engage the terrorists in dialogues. Each one has failed as the jihadis, sensing the weakness of the Pakistani state, and thriving on the support they get from so many TV talk-show hosts and their guests, go for the jugular. It is only natural for the PM's adviser on interior affairs to keep his cards close to his chest. Divulging the details of the government's 'new strategy' for combating militancy in Swat might make us wiser in terms of what lies ahead but would also give the Taliban advance knowledge of future operations. But such secrecy comes at a price. Not knowing the details, the public can ask whether Thursday's assurance that militancy in Swat will be quelled in the next few weeks can really be taken as read. Is Rehman Malik's statement, a reflection of a paradigm shifts in counter-insurgency tactics or is he simply buying time? How will the security apparatus succeed now when so many attempts have failed in the past? Will a renewed push by the military deliver the goods in a situation that is dire and in which the state is often seen as cowering in the face of the militants' brazen disregard of its writ? Has it finally sunk in that deals have been struck from a position of weakness, such as the Swat peace talks of May 2008, can never be successful? Such pacts signed by nerveless hands simply allow the Taliban to regroup and inflict further misery on the long-suffering people of Swat, and by extension the nation of Pakistan. With the exception of Maulana Fazlullah and his band of militants, most of them are outsiders. The entrepreneurial people of Swat who depend on tourism for a living desire deliverance from the scourge of Talibanization. Will we come to their aid when they need the most? Nobody knows what lies ahead. The battle can be won or lost in Swat but defeat is simply not an option. The details of the 'new strategy' may be hazy but one thing is certain: the Pakistani government, its people and the military must be on the same page if the common enemy is to be overcome! The Talibans in Swat, a settled district, take cover behind human shields, behind innocent men, women and children. The Pak Army has understandably come in for flak for the 'collateral damage' caused in the pursuit of militants, most notably from politicians based in the NWFP. Instead of shelling residential areas, the militants need to be flushed out and taken on one-to-one. This will require more boots on the ground. The Taliban do not outnumber the soldiers of the Pakistan Army. The extremists, our enemies, constitute so small a minority of the population that their impact should be negligible. But that is clearly not the case. They have the upper hand as we speak and need to be dealt a telling blow. This has to be done, for negotiating peace with the obscurantist's is possible only from a position of strength. Without wanting to cast doubts on the courage of the soldiers engaged in a difficult battle, I must question the tactics being deployed. Counter-insurgency operations are now a central part of the training many armies impart. But we have stuck to conventional warfare training, based on the assumption that our enemy is India. This one-dimensional approach has failed to equip our officers and soldiers with the tactics to beat the irregular but well-equipped forces they now face across the NWFP. But more than the inadequate military preparations that have handicapped Pakistan in the fight-back against the jihadis; it is the lack of a political consensus. With the country's two biggest political parties, the PPP and the PML-N, locked in a bitter power struggle, those in power have little time to focus on the real danger facing Pakistan. For its part, the media seems to be united on only one thing: hostility towards the West, and specifically, on criticism of the American drone attacks against militant targets in FATA –Federally Administered Tribal Agency. The truth few Pakistanis are willing to face is that almost every such missile attack has killed and wounded militants, both foreign and home-grown. And while there have been a number of civilians killed and hurt, this is the unfortunate price for providing shelter to terrorists. If this sounds callous, ponder over the alternatives: who else would go after these killers? As our army has demonstrated time and again, it has neither the capability, nor the intelligence, to rid us of these killers. The Pakistani government must change its strategy to deal with the issue as the present one has completely failed. The army as well as political leadership must act in unison to recapture the territory and the authority lost to these militants. The underscored need for armed forces and the intelligence agencies need to respond to the allegations that the Taliban outfits still enjoy support within the establishment. The government does not have any strategy to deal with the problem. When the government has never taken the nation into confidence on these issues, how can it develop a consensus on it?" The parliament should frame a comprehensive National Security Policy, and that the army should be given a clear cut mission. But sadly this will never happen. The Muslims are perfectly aware that these Taliban's are their own people and what they are doing is decreed by the Holy Quran and by Prophet Mohammed. The current turmoil is a war on the state of Pakistan. It is not the struggle for Shariah but a war perpetrated by these elements on humanity! The 'war on terror' is still surrounded by confusion as to whose war was it? All those unwilling to submit to the state and refused to become part of dialogue must be taken on with an iron hand. They must be eliminated. The correctness at the strategic level is a prerequisite for success in the war on terror. Our leaders, both in and out of uniform, have repeatedly said such attacks are 'counter-productive'. So how about launching some 'productive' attacks that would convince the Americans (and us Pakistanis) that we are capable of fighting these jihadis on our own? Again, without wishing to belittle the courage or the sacrifices of our soldiers, we must recognise that so far, the war is going very badly for us. At this stage of the battle, it is too late to pin the blame on the individuals and institutions responsible for having allowed this situation to develop. If we wish to turn the tide, different tactics are needed. One thing that might focus minds is for the army to organize trips to the battlefield for politicians and journalists. Let them share what the people of Swat are going through, even if for a couple of days. Perhaps then they might see where the real danger lies. * Source not known to me . This was forwarded to me. From javedmasoo at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 11:23:38 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (M Javed) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 11:23:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "we'll force them to marry on the spot..." Message-ID: Ram Sene to marry off dating couples 5 Feb 2009, 0429 hrs IST, TNN BANGALORE: The fuss over Valentine's Day celebration by the self-styled moral police appears to be getting on Bangalore's nerves. Clearly unwilling to let themselves face a culture shock of sorts by spoilsports of the Sri Rama Sene who have threatened to ruin the celebrations, youth wings of many parties and student leaders vowed to keep the city safe and peaceful on February 14. As expected, on Wednesday afternoon, Rashtriya Hindu Sena chief Pramod Mutalik went into a huddle with his band of supporters and declared war on what he called "anti-Indian" practices. The Sene asked the government, heads of educational institutions and the police to discourage this "Christian practice of celebrating Valentine's Day''. Asked what the Sene would do if the government fails to heed to their demand, Mutalik said: "That question would arise only after government or police fails to stall the Valentine's Day celebrations.'' Those guys and girls exhibiting public display of affection on Valentine's Day, beware. At a meeting on Wednesday, chaired by Sri Rama Sene leader Pramod Mutalik, Sene decided to arrange marriage between dating couples. For that, it has formed five teams. They will roam around Bangalore with a video camera and turmeric stub. If they find young couples dating, they will force them to wed on the spot. "The couples will be taken to a sub-registrar's office to solemnise the marriage,'' T S Vasanth Kumar Bhavani, Sene's Bangalore city president, told TOI. Progressive voices said they would take on the Sene and not allow them to intimidate students. Who are these people to decide what others should do, they asked. On its part, the ruling BJP said though Valentine's Day was not our culture, it would not oppose it. The government did not seem to have any new plan of action to counter Sene's threat. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/Ram_Sene_to_marry_off_dating_couples/articleshow/4078475.cms From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 11:29:15 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 11:29:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 15 arrests against Islamic terrorism in Barcelona Message-ID: <6353c690902042159l59c8b47yb9fdcc40dcf488e6@mail.gmail.com> Here you go again.. (Pakistan is the capital of Global Islamic Terrorism) 15 arrests against Islamic terrorism in Barcelona Link - http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_19888.shtml The operation continues open and more arrests are expected elsewhere. All those detained are reported to be Pakistani. Yet another operation against Islamic terrorism has taken place in Barcelona. At least 15 people, allegedly linked to a network of document falsification were arrested in Calle Peu de la Creu, in the Raval area of the city, overnight as part of an operation which is reported to have extended to other cities in the country, including Valencia. The arrests were made by the National Police in the early hours of Tuesday, and the operation remains open. It was ordered by National Court judge Grande-Marlaska. Those arrested are all thought to be Pakistani and they are accused of supplying false passports to Al Quaeda members. From siddharth.narrain at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 12:08:44 2009 From: siddharth.narrain at gmail.com (siddharth narrain) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 12:08:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] a kiss is just a kiss. or is it? In-Reply-To: References: <20090204150257.ajs46nuiowkk0g4w@www.sms.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1773a06d0902042238x29866133w8f1439e927049c23@mail.gmail.com> That was an incredible read lawrence, Here's the order of Justice Muralidhar of the Delhi High Court in this case, IN THE HIGH COURT OF DELHI AT NEW DELHI 64. CRL.M.C. 283 of 2009 RAHUL MOOKERJI and ANR. ..... Petitioner Through: Mr. Trideep pais and Ms. Naomi Chandra, Advocates. versus STATE THR. N.C.T. OF DELHI and ANR. ..... Respondents Through: Mr. Pawan Behl, APP. CORAM: HON'BLE DR. JUSTICE S.MURALIDHAR O R D E R 02.02.2009 Crl.M.A.No.1073 of 2009 Exemption allowed subject to all just exceptions. The application is disposed of. CRL.M.C. 283 of 2009 and CRL.M.A. No. 1072 of 2009 (stay) 1. The facts brought to the notice of this Court by way of the present petition which seeks the quashing of proceedings arising out of FIR No. 581 of 2009 under Section 294/34 IPC are rather troubling. The Petitioners are a young couple, aged 28 and 23 years, who solemnized their marriage on 4th September 2008 at the Arya Samaj Mandir, Jamuna Bazar, Delhi apparently without the knowledge of their respective parents. They sought the services CRL.M.C. 283 of 2009 page 1/4 of a lawyer to get their marriage registered under the Hindu Marriage Act, 1955. The lawyer asked them to come to the Dwarka Court Complex on 18th September 2008 apparently to get some paper work done in regard to the registration of their marriage. While they were waiting under the Metro Station near the court complex at around 3 pm in the afternoon, an Assistant Sub-Inspector (?ASI?) of Police Vidyadhar Singh (No. D/3563 PIS No. 16960047) attached to the Police Station Dwarka along with a constable Roshan Lal (No. 1314/SW) accosted them and allegedly told them that he knew what they were up to. According to the FIR which was registered at the instance of the Vidhyadhar Singh, he found the two Petitioners ?sitting in an objectionable position near Metro Pillar No.1140 and were kissing each other. As a result of which the passersby were feeling bad.? (This is the English translation of the FIR which was registered in Hindi which corresponds to these words). 2. The FIR records that on enquiry the ASI found that Petitioner No.2 is the wife of Petitioner No.1 residing at the same address. Learned counsel for the Petitioners clarifies that in the complaint made to the Bar Council of India and to the Commissioner of Police although the addresses of the CRL.M.C. 283 of 2009 page 2/4 parties are shown as being in Greater Kailash, which is the permanent address of Petitioner No.1, this has been done for the sake of convenience. Since this was a love marriage without the knowledge of their respective parents, the address of Petitioner No.2 continues to be shown as being in Gurgaon. 3. What is striking is that despite the SI finding on enquiry that the two Petitioners were husband and wife living in the same place, he thought it fit to go ahead and register an FIR for an offence under Sections 294 read with 34 IPC. Although the FIR refers to ?passers by? being annoyed not a single name of any ?passer by? is found mentioned. Learned counsel for the Petitioners adds that the so-called investigation of the FIR has resulted in a charge sheet being filed on 30th January 2009 which does not refer to a single statement of any passer by recorded under Section 161 CrPC. To say the least, the FIR even when taken on its face value, does not make out a case for the offence under Section 294 read with 34 IPC. It is inconceivable how, even if one were to take what is stated in the FIR to be true, the expression of love by a young married couple, in the manner indicated in the FIR, would attract the offence of ?obscenity? and trigger the coercive process of the law. CRL.M.C. 283 of 2009 page 3/4 4. Notice. 5. Mr. Behl, learned APP for the State accepts notice. 6. The trial court record be produced before the next date of hearing. 7. Mr. Behl further states that he will also take specific instructions on the action taken on the complaint made on 27th October 2008 by the Petitioners to the Commissioner of Police which appears to have been received in the Office of the Commissioner of Police on that day itself by Ms. Shalini Singh, DCP, S/W. 8. There will be a stay of further proceedings arising out of FIR No. 581 of 2008 till further orders. 9. List on 25th February 2009. 10. Order dasti. S.MURALIDHAR, J FEBRUARY 02, 2009 dn CRL.M.C. 283 of 2009 page 4/4 On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Lawrence Liang wrote: > Hi all > > Apologies for a long post, but hope it is of some interest to those of us > invested in the physical and smbolic acts of kissing, as well as of the > law. > > I think given the current atmosphere of moralpolicing, this is a very > welcome order, (the judge begins by acknowledging the troubling nature of a > case like this being brought t cout, and ends by saying that it is > inconceiveable how an expression of love, albeit between a married couple, > could be obscene) > > I think the question of whether it is radical or not is a misdirected one. > It instead might be more useful to use the order as a way of thinking about > the relationshiop of law to diverse states of being, of emotional > expression > and the limits of the law. > > > The question is not whether it is a radical act or not, rather it may be > understood in terms of how is that the law comes to judge a kiss, and in > doing so, what conceptions of the kiss does it evoke: Does it have a rich > understanding of the kiss or a poor one? If the entire issue is indeed > decided on the basis of the appropriate space of intimacy, whether it > should > be conducted publicly or privately, then where do we turn to even > understand > the Laws of intimacy? If the kiss is the object of objection, then what are > the ways in which we deal with this object? > > For instance do we deal with it, on its own terms ( a good kiss v, a bad > one, a real kiss v. a fake one) or do we have to constantly mobilize other > resources (Public v. private, married v. non married?) If kissing in > public > is against the idea of Indian culture, what are the sources beyond some > general invocation of Indian culture that is being relied on? Because given > the publicness of our erotic temples, surely it cant be the case that > public > display of erotic affection is a civilizational anomaly. > > > > I would like to draw your attention to a marvelous article which addresses > many of these questions. > > > > *Peter Goodrich, The Laws of Love: Literature, History and the Regulation > of > kissing: 24 N.Y.U Rev. L & Soc. Change, 183(1998)* > > > > For the benefit of those who may not have access to the article, I am > summarizing and extracting from the article which opens out exciting ways > in which we can think of the relationship between the kiss and the law. > > > > Goodrich argues that the while the law is often called upon to address the > appropriateness of intimate erotic acts occurring in public and > quasi-public > spaces, we must acknowledge that the lawyers are also not, by any training > or special knowledge the best legislators of kissing. As a result, when > such > disputes do arise, the consequences are that the results that emerge are > usually couched in negative terms. Thus certain forms of affection are > banned from public spaces; The ability to determine these matters suggest > that the law has a theory of the role of eros and intimacy in making of a > public world; > > > > But if the law is a specific body of knowledge that derives its authority > over the world through memory ( as enshrined as precedent), then the > question is where do such precedents lie? > > > > Goodrich argues that the common law may not be the best site for > understanding the kiss, but it is not an act whose regulation is beyond > comprehension or even historical evidence. > > > > Goodrich then lays out a fascinating history of the regulation of kissing, > particularly as it developed in the history of Christianity, and then in > medieval Europe in the courts of love and literature. > > > > According to him, Christianity, which was a religion of the 'logos' or word > and connected Truth with the "sermo humilis" and the pentecostal speaking > in > > tongues, and knowledge came from the lips. On of the early Christian > commentaries speaking on the Song of Songs, says that the kiss was the > principal form of salvation in that it was through the kiss of knowledge > that the word would be passed from Christ to his followers. Thus, when the > Song of Songs famously importunes "[l]et him kiss me with the kisses of his > Mouth", it is illumination of the soul, divine grace, for which the > supplicant pleads." > > > > The kiss was thus the union of the word and the soul. In the exchange of > breath that takes place in kissing, two souls would intermingle and unite. > The insufflation of the kiss was an inhalation of knowledge, and > constituted > an exchange that was spiritual rather than sexual, and institutional rather > than carnal. Si in early Christianity, the kiss aided in the development > and > intensification of community which leads the faithful eventually to a > knowledge of God. > > > > Goodrich then traces the rather elaborate doctrinal history that > accompanies > this idea of the sacred character of the kiss. He shows us of rinstance a > taxonomy of kissing which ranges from the osculum pads, or kiss of > brotherhood, which was a physical kiss, a kiss on the mouth, but one which > was exchanged as a sign of truth and of peace. Then you have the spiritual > kiss, a kiss that took place not by virtue of the meeting of mouth or > contact of lips but by the joining of the affections of the mind, and it > was > this kiss that enabled believers to mingle and unite in the single body of > the Church. Finally, the highest level of the kiss, the intellectual > embrace, was in a sense the prolongation of the spiritual kiss. A spiritual > kiss of sufficient intensity and duration would transcend the bodies of > those that embraced and rather than being the friend or Christian brother > that was kissed and being kissed it was now Christ who was kissed and being > kissed through the > > creature or lips of the believer. > > > > > > > > But here comes the catch, stages of the Christian kiss, could be mimicked > by > the unfaithful and so lead not to salvation or knowledge but to a corporeal > desire marked by ignorance and deceit. The false kiss treated the lips of > the other not as the sign of, and means of access to, an invisible grace, > but rather as an end in > > themselves, as sensual presence and the means of a purely carnal embrace. > > the sin of idolatry was depicted as being that of allowing sight to > terminate upon the physical representation or plastic form of faith, so too > the plain kiss which when used by non believers, it became a false kiss, > which ended its quest for satisfaction upon the body of the > subject kissed. The face of the other here became a false image, an idol > upon which desire in the form of the kiss both doted and fed. > > > > > > Goodrich's interest in laying out he history of the regulation of kissing > as > it emerges in Christianity is also to understand the development of the > language from where kisses are understood, and what kind of inheritances, > the modern legal system may have drawn from in their understanding of the > regulation of amorous activities. > > > > > > > > He says > > > > *"In contemporary and more pluralistic doctrinal contexts, the specific > resonances of impurity, heresy, or paganism, attached to false kisses is > less > important than the language and classificatory schemata through which the > art and practice of kissing was made accessible and available to some > species of judgment. This early law on kissing had a remarkable and > peculiarly > radical theoretical perspicuity. Specifically, it recognized and > acknowledged an erotic charge, a substrate of desire or indeed libidinal > economy,' that not simply underpinned but literally constituted community. > Desire pervaded the social, and eros, as motive or as expression, was > acknowledged to be present in all institutional relationships as a > dimension > not only of power but of speech as such. The importance of the early law > of kissing thus lies primarily in its ability to acknowledge and address > the > role of desire in all forms of social contact or institutional intercourse. > So > too, rather than attempting to deny or exclude public expressions of erotic > desire, the doctrine of kissing attempted rather to understand and map an > art and practice of embrace that both acknowledged the pervasive value of > desire and limited inappropriate forms of its expression through a code, an > epistemic, of the relation of kissing to truth. Love, in other words, > required > expression, and this was recognized to be as true of the polity as of the > domestic sphere. It remains to point out that in the literary tradition of > the > courts of love, this insight into the relation between desire, community > and > knowledge, gains further and vivid elaboration. In kissing, in tasting the > other,124 we come to know them in their difference and in their desire, and > we come also to know what is possible, what lies in the future of our > love". > * > > > > Goodrich then goes on to examine the regulation of the kisses in courtly > love, in literature and in the fascinating courts of love. > > > > > > > > > > He writes of a mid-fifteenth century case reported in Martial d'Auvergne, > Les Arréts D 'Amour, which was heard before the Court of Flowers, where a > woman complained that she had been amongst friends in a public garden when > her lover had happened to come upon her and had joined her. According to > her > complaint, he had come up beside her and "pretending to want to say > something private in her ear, he had lifted the hood of her cape and > suddenly had kissed her.""' > > > > Her complaint was that this kiss had embarrassed her in front of her > > friends. It was, at least in her argument, to be treated as if it had been > > stolen in public: it was larrecin publique or public larceny of a kiss. Her > > request to the Court was that in the future her lover should be forbidden > to > > approach her or touch her in public."' For his part, the impugned lover > > claimed that when he chanced upon his lover he took the opportunity to > > whisper declarations of love in her ear and while doing so had slipped. In > > consequence his lips had brushed against her ear and her cheek. This could > > hardly, in his view, be regarded as a kiss."' > > > > Upon deliberation the Court held that the complaint was badly made. > > It could not be public theft of a kiss for a lover to surprise his beloved > with > > so innocent and amorous a declaration and act. A lover should not be > > embarrassed by a public kiss but should rather welcome the attention and > > the honesty of the expression. It was ordered that when the couple next > > met in public the woman should kiss her lover openly and freely. > > > > In his commentary on that case, Benoit de Court argues that the laws > > of love had always recognized the finely marked differences between > different types of kiss. Thus a kiss between lovers in an open place was a > legitimate and desirable expression of affection, provided that the kiss > was > not > > overlong or too salacious. It was not theft, he concluded, publicly to kiss > a > > lover, "so long as the hands did not wander lasciviously, and so long as > > there was no biting of the lips." > > > > The kiss was thus held to belong quite properly within the public > > sphere, as also within the institution, and should not be hidden or furtive > > but rather declared and indulged. The domain of love, therefore, did not > > recognize arbitrary divisions between private and public, or between > intimacy and institution. The kiss belonged to an economy of desire that > both subtended and exceeded the public domain of secular or venal > interaction. > > > > Kissing was the usual form not only of entry into the domain of love but > more formally of sealing the agreement of love or alliance d'amour whereby > lovers committed themselves to each other and publically declared an > undying > allegiance to the cause and space of their mutual desire. > > > > Goodrich's argument is simply, that the questions of love are best judged > > according to laws of love. Simple, and indeed alliterative, though this > proposition might appear, its implications for legal thought are radical. > That love should have its laws means at the very least that the ailing > modern concept of a single jurisdiction and uniform agonistic procedure for > all legal cases should be abandoned explicitly. At its simplest, it does > not > make sense to litigate emotions as if they were proprietary benefits or > duties. Nor does it speak well of the legal enterprise to assume that a > substantive law that historically has ignored the emotions and left the > sphere of intimacy to the private realm, to the law of the father, is the > appropriate or only source of precedents for the development of the rules > that are to govern the expressions of desire in the public world. - > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 16:37:03 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 03:07:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Is anyone thinking about boycotting Pakistan? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <352375.78338.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Javed   Your post was copied to me so I presume you were addressing me too.   To put things in perspective, my post on boycotting Pakistan, was in response to Zain's post on boycotting Israel.   You might have missed noticing it but my post was almost a copy of Zain's post with Israel being replaced by Pakistan and a few other changes.   The point I was trying to make was that Indians, if they have to boycott anyone should be talking about boycotting Pakistan much before any thoughts of boycotting Israel. Reason is simple that Pakistan has sought to and has hurt India wheras that cannot be said about Israel. India has no reason for boycotting Israel.   If one has to call for a boycott by India of Israel because of a judgement of Israel's actions and policies (outside the Indian theatre), then there are countries which are far more guilty judged by those very standards by which Israel would be judged. The USA is a prime and foremost example of such a country. USA in fact is worse (for an Indian) because the policies and actions of USA have adversely impacted India too. Why do we not see a 'boycott USA' call from those in India (and in fact elsewhere in the world too) who are quick to give a 'boycott Israel' call?   I hope you now realise that my 'boycott Pakistan' call was an amused response to Zain.   Do I believe that Pakistan should be boycotted by India? I am not sure about that at as far as the far ranging implications of a 'boycott' are concerned.   Pakistan is hardly dependant on India for anything at all. From that perspective India boycotting Pakistan would be a pompous stand of exaggerated self-importance by India. Pressure is meaningful only when the one pressured has only the choice of 'yield or break'.   But, I would not want Pakistan to benefit from India in any way until Pakistan stops interfering into India. Cricketing ties are one such sphere.   Yet I am not too sure whether those who share common values based on mutual respect and mutual acceptance should be barred from interacting. These might be sportsmen, artists, artistes, litterateurs, academicians, students etc   These do not include those who have made a profession of being "Peace Activists". Such people, especially on the Indian side mock by their words and actions the hurts suffered by India that have been caused by Pakistan. They take the focus away from the seriousness of issues and not only harm India but to my mind harm Pakistan too. They play into the hands of the sinister elements in Pakistan who love them and herald them; those very elements who are not only seeking to destroy India but ironically are destroying Pakistan too.    There are two groupings in India who, in my opinion would be best suited to talk with and talk to Pakistan and the Pakistanis.   One is the Govt Of India (GOI) who has all these past decades either allowed Pakistan to 'get away with it' or been delusional that Pakistan has been sincere and well meaning in the "Peace" noises it has been making. GOI needs to tell Pakistan "Listen guys. We have been enemies for long and we thought we could be friendlier now. But we cannot have these Confidence Building Measures (CBMs) while you continue to harm us. This duplicity is not acceptable any more. Either you stop being hypocritical or let us accept each other and declare each other as enemies and act accordingly"   The other grouping that needs to do some intensive public plainspeaking to Pakistan and Pakistanis is the Indian Muslims. That is another topic altogether but Pakistan and Pakistanis need to be told that they are not only making life hell for the Indian Muslims but also for Muslims all over the world and even in Pakistan. That they are ruining Islam by propagating or allowing propagation of convoluted ideas in the name of Islam. That they are destroying Islam.     You have hyperventilated a sarcastic whine about 'ejecting ..... into outer space', Pakistan, Afghanistan, Osama, Iran. Why you have done it only you would know. Only Pakistan was being spoken about. Why are you being so sensitive about it and injecting irrational conclusions of what was stated? Excuse my questions. Are you a Pakistani? Are you a Muslim? Do you subscribe to 'every Muslim is a citizen of the Islamic temporal domain that has primacy over nationality' ? Why else would you club together Pakistan, Afghanistan, Osama, Iran.     Kshmendra   --- On Thu, 2/5/09, M Javed wrote: From: M Javed Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is anyone thinking about boycotting Pakistan? To: "Lalit Ambardar" Cc: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com, "reader-list at sarai.net" , zainrahimtula1 at googlemail.com Date: Thursday, February 5, 2009, 11:11 AM How does one boycott Pakistan? Haven't we already done that by not playing cricket with them. But interestingly, while we boycott Pakistani cricket team because of the Mumbai terror, we play cricket with Sri Lankans who are killing so many Tamils in Sri Lanka. Why can't we boycott them as well. (and interestingly, Sri Lanka has decided to play cricket with Pakistan any way). I think the only way to fully boycott Pakistan is to simply eject the entire landmass of that country from the planet earth and send it spiralling into outer space - that's the only way the terrorism can be solved. Then the empty space will be filled with the water from the Arabian sea and it may actually solve the problem of global warming. Maybe we can tag along Afghanistan too with (Osama will certainly leave earth then) and send them to outer space - they will also meet the Iranians there (who have just sent their satellite). Good way to solve many problems in one go. On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 1:15 AM, Lalit Ambardar wrote: > > You could only be sure of a mute response. > > In case of Pakistan you are expected to maintain the 'dine & dance' bonhomie even while India conitinues to bleed at the hands of the Pakistan sponsored pan Islamists. > > One can only suspect the empathy being shown for the poor Palestinians since the bloody ethnic cleansing by the Pakistan loyal Kashmiri jihadis, of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits- co citizens of the most on this forum never evoked any such similar sentiment. > > On the contrary the perpetrators like Yassin Mallik who at the behest of his Pakistani masters along with his other jihadi cohorts brought death & destruction to our own Kashmir- in our own backyard, are being unashamedly eulogized on this forum. > Regards all > LA From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Feb 5 17:12:06 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 11:42:06 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath In-Reply-To: <002401c9868b$eda724a0$0201a8c0@limo> References: <006701c98369$3b8cae90$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40901310944i5dfd0c1cpb9da416014037dab@mail.gmail.com> <005901c985c0$1e425b10$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40902030231p62cc4e76t2610d577e6ab39a@mail.gmail.com> <000901c985ef$0ff34950$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40902030348k5f16002by866cd3ba21a41081@mail.gmail.com> <002401c9868b$eda724a0$0201a8c0@limo> Message-ID: <65be9bf40902050342m6e45e30cs16694b75cdd28a29@mail.gmail.com> Dear Bipin, You are absolutely right that, ' Modi mask, chhapan ki chhati is one type of publicity gimmick and nothing to do with Hindutva', I think it has got to do a lot with Modittva. In this regard can one not argue that by projecting himself as over and above the ideology of a political party or foregrounding himself over any other issue such as development or governance, Modi in this regard managed to occupy more space where nothing else matters. I paste for your benefit an excerpt from an article written by Swapan Dasgupta in Tehelka on various campaign strategies used by Arun Jaitely who was also the BJP prabhari for Gujarat- Jaitley faced another problem in Gujarat. A section of the RSS and Modi's detractors within the party were wary of any campaign which focussed on the iconic chief minister. Jaitley overruled these objections brusquely and insisted that the entire campaign be centred on Modi. His logic was simple: "Modi's personal popularity was greater than that of the BJP". In his view, in a Congress versus BJP fight, both sides were equal; in a Congress versus Modi fight, the winner was pre-determined. http://www.tehelka.com/story_main39.asp?filename=Ne070608master_ceremonies.asp If Modi was as efficient as an administrator as he claimed he was, then where was the need for any gimickry or iconoclasm? Did voters not elect the quiet MP CM Shivraj Singh Chauhan again and did the incumbent CM, not invite Mr. Modi during election time with a request to stay away from MP? Why was there no gimickry, no iconoclasm, no mass murder, no rapes. no need for any paranoia, or any chappan ki chatti during MP elections? The election was fought and won on development issues was it not? If Modi is such an iconic figure then where was the need for FCI or the National Health Survey and other agencis to suggest that more than three crore gujaraties are suffering from malnutrition, anemia or low body mass index? Regards Taha From sen.gargi at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 17:16:41 2009 From: sen.gargi at gmail.com (Gargi Sen) Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 17:16:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Under Construction@ the Calcutta Book Fair Message-ID: Dear all, As distributors of independent films we have long felt that this genre of films is closer to literature and books rather than to commercial cinema. With the help of Left Word Books we have taken the very first steps to make our films available at Book Fairs to explore another avenue for popularising and disseminating the very significant films that Under Construction distributes. And now we are going to be at the celebrated Kolkata Boi Mela, or the Calcutta Book Fair. The Calcutta Book Fair, an annual winter affair, is unique as its primarily for the general public rather than whole-sale distributors. It is the world's largest non-trade book fair, Asia's largest book fair and the world's third largest annual fair after the Frankfurt and the London Book Fairs. But it is the most attended book fair in the world. Under Construction is going to the present at the LeftWord Book's stall at the Calcutta Book Fair, from 28 January to 8 February 2009 that is located in Hall no 1, stall no 23. If you are in Calcutta in this period we look forward to meeting you there. Please also circulate this information to your network of friends and cinema lovers in Calcutta. For films we distribute please visit www.magiclanternfoundation.org and look under films for distribution. Gargi Sen From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Feb 5 17:47:51 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 12:17:51 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Identity Crisis Message-ID: <65be9bf40902050417l1ede215cw73811c8b05dc7242@mail.gmail.com> Dear all Bibek Debroy's piece pasted below cogently describes what ails 'identity' in India. He lists out three problems. Selected excerpts- First, there are geographical areas ostensibly illegal, such as urban slums involving encroachment. ...The second nuance is linked to informal work. Large chunks of India are in the informal workforce. Informality doesn't mean illegality. But it often means lack of legal identity, since this work is typically outside registration systems. Perhaps 450 million Indians are in this category and the number will be more if those presently outside the workforce (such as women) begin to enter, as female work participation rates rise. If not linked to place of residence, identity-proof is sometimes linked to place of work and we thus have a problem. Elsewhere, transitions from self-employment to wage-employment and rural to urban facilitated legal recognition through work-place. Developing countries with national identity systems have smaller populations. Or, to take the Chinese example, communism built in household registration systems.... ...The third nuance of legal identity is individual-based and given the above, becomes difficult to establish. This isn't a problem that plagues India alone. It is a problem that characterises much of South Asia and sub-Saharan Africa and some segments of Latin America and East Asia too.... Debroy lists other dimensions of identity quagmire- excerpts- First, there are multiple identity cards for different purposes and a card acceptable for one purpose is not accepted for another. Second, there is rampant bribery and corruption in issuing cards.... Third, counterfeit cards float around and those who are meant to check them for authenticity are negligent or lack necessary means. I think this instance again brings to forefront questions that we have been trying to think through on the reader-list. a) What is identity? b) Is the transfer of such a huge amount of money for MNIC just? c) How do we ensure that even if MNIC is delivered then the identity problem will be solved? Regards Taha http://www.indianexpress.com/news/identity-crises/419283/0 Bibek Debroy Posted: Feb 05, 2009 at 2321 hrs IST Identity crises When travelling abroad, one is used to hotels, offices and assorted other places asking for identification proof. That's true not only of developed countries, but developing ones too — 9/11 reinforced the trend. Until 26/11, that was rarely the case in India. Every Indian's aspiration is of becoming a VIP, whatever that expression means. Consequently, self-proclaimed VIPs resent the idea of being asked who they are. The world is supposed to know who they are. Post 26/11, this has changed and there is greater insistence and acceptance of identity-proof. For those with access to passports, driving licences and PAN cards, there is no problem. However, for the majority of Indians, especially those living in Bharat, there is a problem in establishing who you are, unless you possess voter cards and/or ration cards. There are three different nuances of the legal identity problem. First, there are geographical areas ostensibly illegal, such as urban slums involving encroachment. With Slumdog Millionaire in the news, Dharavi is one obvious instance. "So they live in illegal houses and use illegal electricity, drinking illegal water and watch illegal cable TV. They work in Dharavi's numerous illegal factories and illegal shops." That's a quote from Vikas Swarup's Q&A. Many proofs of identity are linked to place of residence. If residence is illegal, how does one establish legal identity? The second nuance is linked to informal work. Large chunks of India are in the informal workforce. Informality doesn't mean illegality. But it often means lack of legal identity, since this work is typically outside registration systems. Perhaps 450 million Indians are in this category and the number will be more if those presently outside the workforce (such as women) begin to enter, as female work participation rates rise. If not linked to place of residence, identity-proof is sometimes linked to place of work and we thus have a problem. Elsewhere, transitions from self-employment to wage-employment and rural to urban facilitated legal recognition through work-place. Developing countries with national identity systems have smaller populations. Or, to take the Chinese example, communism built in household registration systems. The third nuance of legal identity is individual-based and given the above, becomes difficult to establish. This isn't a problem that plagues India alone. It is a problem that characterises much of South Asia and sub-Saharan Africa and some segments of Latin America and East Asia too. There are several dimensions to the Indian problem. First, there are multiple identity cards for different purposes and a card acceptable for one purpose is not accepted for another. Second, there is rampant bribery and corruption in issuing cards. People who are entitled to them don't get them and those who shouldn't get them do, illegally. This has been documented ad nauseam for driving licences, BPL cards and Antyodaya, with the CAG having castigated several states. Third, counterfeit cards float around and those who are meant to check them for authenticity are negligent or lack necessary means. Identity cards don't only establish identity. They are also required for subsidised access to public services and positive discrimination, such as caste certificates. We should probably have solved the problem in the '60s, when Central and Centrally-sponsored schemes proliferated. But we didn't solve it then and wouldn't have bothered even now, had it not been for 26/11. Prior to that there was a multi-purpose national identity card (MNIC) pushed by the NDA in 2002, with the stated objective of curbing illegal migration from across the border, especially Bangladesh. It was ostensibly tried out in border districts in pilot mode, with Delhi, Andhra Pradesh, Tamil Nadu, Goa and Puducherry thrown in. However, despite pilots being over by 2008, the UPA didn't seem very serious about MNIC, perhaps because electoral politics in some states encouraged issuance of electoral cards to those who weren't Indians. 26/11 changed this and there have been Government statements that after the 2011 Census, every Indian will have an MNIC, probably by 2015. The database will therefore be Census-driven. Does that automatically ensure every MNIC is genuine? And despite the euphoria about biometry, will agencies possess authentication technology? Will MNIC also be used to target public services and positive discrimination? There is possibly some utility in splicing NREGA and Sarva Shiksha Abhiyan (SSA) into the Census database. The advantage of the former is that there is an explicit provision of mandatory social audits by Gram Sabha to check veracity. In most states, Gram Sabha audits haven't worked well. However, NREGA also incorporates provisions on right to information, public disclosure and third-party audits. These have worked much better —what better evidence than murder of NREGA activists in Jharkhand? As of now, NREGA only covers households self-identified as poor. But with that as base data, one should be able to create a database of adults in rural India, at least those in working-age groups. Similarly, school enrolment has shot up dramatically, though that doesn't mean we have solved the problem of drop-outs and inadequate retention. Largely because of mid-day meals, and not core SSA, there are probably only around five million children who are never enrolled in primary school, mostly children of migrants. Stated differently, why don't the poor opt for existing I-card systems? Apart from the lack of information, each existing I-card is issued by a monopoly state provider, engendering corruption and high transaction costs. Offering choice and multiple channels helps eliminate monopoly and reduce corruption. In a way, NREGA offered choice by roping in panchayats and third-party audits, and civil society also helped curb excesses and discretion associated with monopoly. There is thus a check on the Census database. More importantly, if the splicing isn't done, home ministry-driven MNIC will only be used for establishing identity and will primarily be for security. That's an important step. But we still won't have a single identity card, and identity requirements for subsidised public delivery of services and positive discrimination will remain. That shouldn't be the end-goal. Let's not forget that, contrary to what the Administrative Reforms Commission recommended in its second report, NREGA payments are compulsorily made through bank and post office savings accounts, not in cash. If there are multiple good ideas, let's marry them. The writer is a Delhi-based economist xpress at expressindia.com From javedmasoo at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 18:12:05 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (M Javed) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 18:12:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Is anyone thinking about boycotting Pakistan? In-Reply-To: <352375.78338.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <352375.78338.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Kshmendra First of all, does a public call to "boycott" any country ever yield any results? Probably only thing that works is an economic sanctions put on countries (such as what was done on South Africa or Iraq once). Secondly, if you say America needs to by boycotted: yes, even before Israel, millions of people all over the world tried to boycott America a number of times, especially before and during the Iraq war (2003) - even in places like Germany and France, people rejected American goods (although not sure how much it affected the US economy). So, we have a long history of boycotting. But we also know that not every American is responsible for what the US administration does to the world. So what is the fault of an ordinary US citizen? The same may apply to Pakistan. Yes we need to boycott Pakistan, but I asked HOW? What exactly do we do to boycott Pakistan? Do we have any of their products coming into India which we can block? If a Pakistani ailing person wants to come to India to get treated in our hospital, do we deny them entry? Do we block their TV channels? But even more important is my question: How to you define Pakistan which you wish to boycott? Are we looking at Pakistan as a big monolithic entity the whole of which is responsible for the terrorist attacks - its each and every citizen, all govt. officials, Pakistani culture, music, its trees, rivers, birds, what all do we include to boycott? If you really think it is some kind of monolithic entity which is responsible for India's plight, then what is wrong with my suggestion that we eject the entire landmass into space - there would not remain even the seeds and fertile land to cultivate the hate against India. And if you think that even if there are one per cent people in Pakistan who want peace with India, we should boycott them as well, then what more can I say. But I would still like to know how would that help the situation. Javed On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Javed > > Your post was copied to me so I presume you were addressing me too. > > To put things in perspective, my post on boycotting Pakistan, was in > response to Zain's post on boycotting Israel. > > You might have missed noticing it but my post was almost a copy of Zain's > post with Israel being replaced by Pakistan and a few other changes. > > The point I was trying to make was that Indians, if they have to boycott > anyone should be talking about boycotting Pakistan much before any thoughts > of boycotting Israel. Reason is simple that Pakistan has sought to and has > hurt India wheras that cannot be said about Israel. India has no reason for > boycotting Israel. > > If one has to call for a boycott by India of Israel because of a judgement > of Israel's actions and policies (outside the Indian theatre), then there > are countries which are far more guilty judged by those very standards by > which Israel would be judged. The USA is a prime and foremost example of > such a country. USA in fact is worse (for an Indian) because the policies > and actions of USA have adversely impacted India too. Why do we not see a > 'boycott USA' call from those in India (and in fact elsewhere in the world > too) who are quick to give a 'boycott Israel' call? > > I hope you now realise that my 'boycott Pakistan' call was an amused > response to Zain. > > Do I believe that Pakistan should be boycotted by India? I am not sure about > that at as far as the far ranging implications of a 'boycott' are concerned. > > Pakistan is hardly dependant on India for anything at all. From that > perspective India boycotting Pakistan would be a pompous stand of > exaggerated self-importance by India. Pressure is meaningful only when the > one pressured has only the choice of 'yield or break'. > > But, I would not want Pakistan to benefit from India in any way until > Pakistan stops interfering into India. Cricketing ties are one such sphere. > > Yet I am not too sure whether those who share common values based on mutual > respect and mutual acceptance should be barred from interacting. These might > be sportsmen, artists, artistes, litterateurs, academicians, students etc > > These do not include those who have made a profession of being "Peace > Activists". Such people, especially on the Indian side mock by their words > and actions the hurts suffered by India that have been caused by Pakistan. > They take the focus away from the seriousness of issues and not only harm > India but to my mind harm Pakistan too. They play into the hands of the > sinister elements in Pakistan who love them and herald them; those very > elements who are not only seeking to destroy India but ironically are > destroying Pakistan too. > > There are two groupings in India who, in my opinion would be best suited to > talk with and talk to Pakistan and the Pakistanis. > > One is the Govt Of India (GOI) who has all these past decades either allowed > Pakistan to 'get away with it' or been delusional that Pakistan has been > sincere and well meaning in the "Peace" noises it has been making. GOI needs > to tell Pakistan "Listen guys. We have been enemies for long and we thought > we could be friendlier now. But we cannot have these Confidence Building > Measures (CBMs) while you continue to harm us. This duplicity is not > acceptable any more. Either you stop being hypocritical or let us accept > each other and declare each other as enemies and act accordingly" > > The other grouping that needs to do some intensive public plainspeaking to > Pakistan and Pakistanis is the Indian Muslims. That is another topic > altogether but Pakistan and Pakistanis need to be told that they are not > only making life hell for the Indian Muslims but also for Muslims all over > the world and even in Pakistan. That they are ruining Islam by propagating > or allowing propagation of convoluted ideas in the name of Islam. That they > are destroying Islam. > > You have hyperventilated a sarcastic whine about 'ejecting ..... into outer > space', Pakistan, Afghanistan, Osama, Iran. Why you have done it only you > would know. Only Pakistan was being spoken about. Why are you being so > sensitive about it and injecting irrational conclusions of what was stated? > Excuse my questions. Are you a Pakistani? Are you a Muslim? Do you subscribe > to 'every Muslim is a citizen of the Islamic temporal domain that has > primacy over nationality' ? Why else would you club together Pakistan, > Afghanistan, Osama, Iran. > > > Kshmendra > > --- On Thu, 2/5/09, M Javed wrote: > > From: M Javed > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is anyone thinking about boycotting Pakistan? > To: "Lalit Ambardar" > Cc: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com, "reader-list at sarai.net" > , zainrahimtula1 at googlemail.com > Date: Thursday, February 5, 2009, 11:11 AM > > How does one boycott Pakistan? Haven't we already done that by not > playing cricket with them. But interestingly, while we boycott > Pakistani cricket team because of the Mumbai terror, we play cricket > with Sri Lankans who are killing so many Tamils in Sri Lanka. Why > can't we boycott them as well. (and interestingly, Sri Lanka has > decided to play cricket with Pakistan any way). > > I think the only way to fully boycott Pakistan is to simply eject the > entire landmass of that country from the planet earth and send it > spiralling into outer space - that's the only way the terrorism can be > solved. Then the empty space will be filled with the water from the > Arabian sea and it may actually solve the problem of global warming. > Maybe we can tag along Afghanistan too with (Osama will certainly > leave earth then) and send them to outer space - they will also meet > the Iranians there (who have just sent their satellite). Good way to > solve many problems in one go. > > > > On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 1:15 AM, Lalit Ambardar > wrote: >> >> You could only be sure of a mute response. >> >> In case of Pakistan you are expected to maintain the 'dine & > dance' bonhomie even while India conitinues to bleed at the hands of the > Pakistan sponsored pan Islamists. >> >> One can only suspect the empathy being shown for the poor Palestinians > since the bloody ethnic cleansing by the Pakistan loyal Kashmiri jihadis, of > Kashmiri Hindu Pandits- co citizens of the most on this forum never evoked > any > such similar sentiment. >> >> On the contrary the perpetrators like Yassin Mallik who at the behest of > his Pakistani masters along with his other jihadi cohorts brought death & > destruction to our own Kashmir- in our own backyard, are being unashamedly > eulogized on this forum. >> Regards all >> LA > > From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 18:15:13 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 04:45:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <958828.88500.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Sandeep   I would not agree with you.   The Jihadi Hindus are as much the scum of this earth as the Jihadi Muslims or Jihadi Christians or Jihadi Sikhs or Jihadi Jews or Jihadi Atheists or Jihadi Agnostics or Jihadi Capitalists or Jihadi Communists or whoever. The actions of one cannot be used as an excuse for similar actions by the other.   In my opinion, an individual or a grouping of individuals has the right to make a Value Judgement for themselves, but no one has the right to impose that Value Judgement on others or become Executioner especially in environments where instutionalised avenues are available to state your case, argue it and alter Common Consent Value Judgements.   Kshmendra   --- On Wed, 2/4/09, Sandeep wrote: From: Sandeep Subject: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear To: "sa" Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 8:04 PM Kasjmendra Kaul wrote-- What Pakistan and Pakistanis and their supporters in Kashmir did to Kashmir, is now being done in Swat, Pakistan by it's own Pakistanis. and then there is link about SWAT. and i totally agree with that but what about extending the logic to karnataka one can say jihadi hindus r learning fast from their jihadi brethen across the border. Ram Sena now targets women's attire Vicky Nanjappa in Bengaluru http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/feb/04ram-sena-now-targets-womens-attire.htm February 04, 2009 19:18 IST The Shri Ram Sena is sticking to its guns that it will not permit Valentine's Day celebrations and also warning that they will keep a watch on the kind of clothes women wear. After meeting with other activists of the Sena in Bengaluru [Images], its founder Pramod Muthalik [Images] said it was decided that the fight to safeguard the Indian culture would go on and there is no going back on this point. The Sena members unanimously decided to oppose Valentine's Day. Muthalik however added that their protests would be peaceful. A memorandum would be submitted to the chief minister and the Governor regarding this and they would be urged to help curb the celebration of Valentine's Day, which the Sena maintained is against Indian culture and should be prevented at any cost. Muthalik also said: "I have no problem with the manner in which a girl dresses up as long as it adheres to Indian culture. Skimpily clad women will not be tolerated and we would warn such girls. However at no point of time will we take the law into our hands." Meanwhile the Bangalore police is gearing to face any eventuality on February 14. Police sources say that they are fully prepared and that the day will be peaceful and the citizens will be safe From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 21:17:01 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 21:17:01 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice In-Reply-To: <6353c690902030841h46c5c975rcf2c546473c869b7@mail.gmail.com> References: <776819.99479.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <47e122a70902030616o735a281dn72f781916ebe25d0@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902030841h46c5c975rcf2c546473c869b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Aditya After reading your mail, I must certainly respond to certain points raised in your mail. The first point is that of retribution. You have said that Yasin Malik 'should know how it feels when bullet passes through his empty skull!' . This is highly atrocious according to me, as atrocious as the migration of Kashmiri Pandits was. While I don't deny that the Pandits didn't deserve to be punished for being Indians, it doesn't mean that if Yasin Malik first organized violence, then retributive action must be pursued against him. This already speaks of your own mentality. Mind you. It's not as if I don't feel retributive at all; there are times when I feel that all BJP supporters should be cut down to pieces, and like they organized Gujarat, all their supporters should be completely burnt in an organized manner, so that they are never there back in the society. However, I do realize, though somewhat late (fortunately this violent streak in me never materializes), that this is not the way to go about solving such problems. I don't agree with BJP, and those who follow it ideologically, but they are also human beings and deserve dignity and right to life as much as I do. But you seem to have completely forgotten that. As much as you deserve dignity of life and right to life, Yasin Malik also deserves it. And if you think that he is an animal, don't forget that animals also have rights in today's times(PETA is one of the organizations fighting for animals' rights). Secondly, doesn't a criminal deserve the chance to improve back on what he did, and become a better human being? According to what I have heard, Yasin Malik, was sentenced to jail in 1994-94, during which he had read 'My Experiments With Truth' , the autobiography of Mahatma Gandhi, and after reading it, asked JKLF, his own organization to lay down arms. Since then, he has repeatedly asked for stopping of all violence, and also repeatedly stated that Kashmiri Pandits should also be a part of 'azad' Kashmir. Moreover, he has stated that violence doesn't lead to any solution; it leads only to more violence. Now, coming back to your point. Thirdly, if Yasin Malik is responsible for the rapes and killings in the Valley to begin with, which led to the exodus of the Pandits on a large scale, there are cases pending against him. Get those cases tried quickly, put pressure on the Indian Union, and get him convicted if you have evidence to back your claim, instead of first indulging in PR-exercise on sarai list, and following the tried and tested policy of Bush and Modi, which is 'repeat a thing 1000 times, and it becomes the truth'. If Malik is responsible for all this, can't you get him sentenced in any case? Or is only repeating perceptions and spreading them within your control, and getting him tried and convicted beyond your control? Fourthly. From the way I have seen, it seems that Kashmiri Pandits always want to put themselves up as victims to earn sympathies and brownie points all the time. I have never seen these kind of comments from other kinds of victims or refugees come up, be it Nandigram and Singur people who suffered due to the machinisations of the Left Front Govt. of Bengal, nor be the tribals who suffer in various states right from policies of development which are flawed to the Salwa Judums and others; nor have I seen Muslims complaining themselves so much about the conditions in which they are living post-2002 riots. Who says Pandits haven't suffered? I dont' say that. And neither does anyone on this list say that? But it seems that Pandits have decided that any solution on Kashmir should only and only take them into account. As if Pandits only are humans, and all the Kashmiri Muslims are inhumans. So today they want Panun Kashmir, and it must be given to them on a platter, disregarding the fact that a majority of population in Kashmir don't want that. Similarly, what they want is justified, and if somebody has a view contrary to that, he/she is either an anti-national or a terrorist. Why, may I know that? I would suggest Pandits, to stop acting as citizens, and first of all act as human beings. That would be better. Citizenship is an invention of history, but human beings are not. At least learn humanity first. Try to understand that even your 'opponents' in this case are human beings, and try to inculcate teachings of your own religion (Hinduism) before propagating any kind of violence against them. It doesn't mean you dont' ask for justice. It means that you don't ask for retributive action against them. Regards Rakesh From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 22:12:25 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 22:12:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice In-Reply-To: References: <776819.99479.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <47e122a70902030616o735a281dn72f781916ebe25d0@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902030841h46c5c975rcf2c546473c869b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690902050842v54ffae3sdbc9a54615562019@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh, I don't think I should comment much on your wikipedia knowledge on Kashmir, Kashmiri Pandits and Islamic Terrorist Yasin Malik. Not all written on such sources is true, my friend. Anyways, Just for your information sake; the God of Separatists Yasin Malik has several cases pending against him in TADA and other courts; mostly in J&K. Two of them being of Rubiya Sayeed Kidnapping and another of killing 4 IAF unarmed persons. He enjoys freedom due to the mercy of Indian Government and as well his good lobby of 'well-connected' people in New Delhi. I didn't raise anything about BJP here. To us the Kashmiri Pandits; both politicians and leaders towards the right or even to the left have been same. We have just seen lip service from them. Here I responded to a mail which portrayed a killer as a leader; which cannot be accepted. To Singur there were groups who stood up, to Gujarat there were again leaders and NGOs who worked, to Kashmiri Muslims there are several NGOs and other well connected people campaigning hard; but to us the Kashmiri Pandits and to our forced exodus...the world remained silent. You may want to cut BJP leaders into pieces; that is your personal choice. And, Yasin Malik may deserve rights. But, I want him to be arrested and tried by law. If only law fails; last option remains the most extreme one; which you seemed to suggest. Yasin Malik to us is a butcher, psychopath killer, uneducated & mindless terrorist. By reading out a crafted speech written by his 'mates' he doesn't prove to be a revolutionary or a intellectual. He had no option but to take to 'non-violence' or else he would have been the next killed. He wanted to enjoy perks of an 'agent'. It isn't a PR Exercise by us; but response to some grave misconceptions that people have. We have been trying on our part to approach Judiciary and as well Govt. to get him convicted; lets hope this happens soon. Hope you read the archives of www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com well. Moreover, Its quite strange that Naxalites show themselves as victims and fight, so are called rebels; Kashmiri Muslims show themselves as so called victims of Indian oppression and say we are fighting ''azaadi struggle' and are called freedom fighters.. but alas.! Kashmiri Pandits like democratic, peaceful human beings are just spreading awareness and are called pseudos...lolz Amusing! You have mixed too many things in your e-mail. Panun Kashmir is a political demand; one may not expect it to be carved out in a few days time. It is a demand by the minority community of J&K; and as important as any other demand in the region. Even formation of Jharkhand, Chattisgarh etc. was opposed by some stray elements. More so, the demand of 'aazad Kashmir' you talk about; has been hugely rejected and sidelined by the common citizens of J&K in the recently held elections with a high turnout. The separatist shops are closed and they are struggling to make ends meet. Need I say more ? We 'Kashmiri Pandits' were kind Human Beings all our lives; and perhaps even still are; but silence is what we got in return each time; even at the time of our 'ethnic cleansing'. Doors were shut, our neighbours and even the Indian Government became deaf, dumb and blind. On your comments on us Kashmiri Pandits; well let me just say 'Thank you'. Regards On 2/5/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > Dear Aditya > > After reading your mail, I must certainly respond to certain points raised > in your mail. > > The first point is that of retribution. You have said that Yasin Malik > 'should know how it feels > when bullet passes through his empty skull!' . This is highly atrocious > according to me, as atrocious as the migration of Kashmiri Pandits was. > While I don't deny that the Pandits didn't deserve to be punished for being > Indians, it doesn't mean that if Yasin Malik first organized violence, then > retributive action must be pursued against him. This already speaks of your > own mentality. > > Mind you. It's not as if I don't feel retributive at all; there are times > when I feel that all BJP supporters should be cut down to pieces, and like > they organized Gujarat, all their supporters should be completely burnt in > an organized manner, so that they are never there back in the society. > However, I do realize, though somewhat late (fortunately this violent streak > in me never materializes), that this is not the way to go about solving such > problems. I don't agree with BJP, and those who follow it ideologically, but > they are also human beings and deserve dignity and right to life as much as > I do. > > But you seem to have completely forgotten that. As much as you deserve > dignity of life and right to life, Yasin Malik also deserves it. And if you > think that he is an animal, don't forget that animals also have rights in > today's times(PETA is one of the organizations fighting for animals' > rights). > > Secondly, doesn't a criminal deserve the chance to improve back on what he > did, and become a better human being? According to what I have heard, Yasin > Malik, was sentenced to jail in 1994-94, during which he had read 'My > Experiments With Truth' , the autobiography of Mahatma Gandhi, and after > reading it, asked JKLF, his own organization to lay down arms. Since then, > he has repeatedly asked for stopping of all violence, and also repeatedly > stated that Kashmiri Pandits should also be a part of 'azad' Kashmir. > Moreover, he has stated that violence doesn't lead to any solution; it leads > only to more violence. > > Now, coming back to your point. Thirdly, if Yasin Malik is responsible for > the rapes and killings in the Valley to begin with, which led to the exodus > of the Pandits on a large scale, there are cases pending against him. Get > those cases tried quickly, put pressure on the Indian Union, and get him > convicted if you have evidence to back your claim, instead of first > indulging in PR-exercise on sarai list, and following the tried and tested > policy of Bush and Modi, which is 'repeat a thing 1000 times, and it becomes > the truth'. If Malik is responsible for all this, can't you get him > sentenced in any case? Or is only repeating perceptions and spreading them > within your control, and getting him tried and convicted beyond your > control? > > Fourthly. From the way I have seen, it seems that Kashmiri Pandits always > want to put themselves up as victims to earn sympathies and brownie points > all the time. I have never seen these kind of comments from other kinds of > victims or refugees come up, be it Nandigram and Singur people who suffered > due to the machinisations of the Left Front Govt. of Bengal, nor be the > tribals who suffer in various states right from policies of development > which are flawed to the Salwa Judums and others; nor have I seen Muslims > complaining themselves so much about the conditions in which they are living > post-2002 riots. > > Who says Pandits haven't suffered? I dont' say that. And neither does > anyone on this list say that? But it seems that Pandits have decided that > any solution on Kashmir should only and only take them into account. As if > Pandits only are humans, and all the Kashmiri Muslims are inhumans. So today > they want Panun Kashmir, and it must be given to them on a platter, > disregarding the fact that a majority of population in Kashmir don't want > that. Similarly, what they want is justified, and if somebody has a view > contrary to that, he/she is either an anti-national or a terrorist. Why, may > I know that? > > I would suggest Pandits, to stop acting as citizens, and first of all act > as human beings. That would be better. Citizenship is an invention of > history, but human beings are not. At least learn humanity first. Try to > understand that even your 'opponents' in this case are human beings, and try > to inculcate teachings of your own religion (Hinduism) before propagating > any kind of violence against them. > > It doesn't mean you dont' ask for justice. It means that you don't ask for > retributive action against them. > > Regards > > Rakesh > -- -- Aditya Raj Kaul From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 22:51:46 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 22:51:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice In-Reply-To: <6353c690902050842v54ffae3sdbc9a54615562019@mail.gmail.com> References: <776819.99479.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <47e122a70902030616o735a281dn72f781916ebe25d0@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902030841h46c5c975rcf2c546473c869b7@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902050842v54ffae3sdbc9a54615562019@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Aditya Your reply has raised certain questions and points in my mind, which I wish to express further. For your kind information, in Wikipedia, there is no such information as Yasin Malik saying that he read Gandhi's works to become 'non-violent'. I do agree that there are people like this who initially commit acts of violence, and then say that they have read something which has made them non-violent. However, the fact remains that if we go in the history of what happened in Kashmir since 1990, once insurgency started, it was Yasin Malik who was the first person to agree to talks with the Indian Union to get 'azadi' for Kashmir. And this is not the information from Wikipedia. This is something I have managed to get thanks to an important lecture I attended a few days ago, organized by PUCL, Tamil Nadu unit. Second. I have also read that Yasin Malik is infact a double agent of both the Indian and the Pakistani establishments, and he serves the purpose of both to embarass each other. Some actions have also been pointed out to this effect, where he has embarassed both Indian and Pakistani establishments in different actions. However, the way the statements have been put up is just casting aspersions on Malik itself. If there are facts pertaining to the fact that Malik indeed has contacts which he has been using, then they must be brought out in public. For after all, as law says, to prove any statement, the proof must be 'proof beyond doubt' to satisfy the case. Hence, the allegation against Malik that he is a 'stooge' of the Indian government, remains just that, a mere allegation, with nothing to substantiate it. As for the cases against Malik, let them be proved in court. And you could inform me if you can, about the progress in these cases. Third. When I talked about Singur, Gujarat and even say tribals, I was talking about the people who were actually facing the problem, not the NGO's or others at all. I accept that these people got great support from the NGO's and others, but the fact remains that in all these cases, these very people have also suffered a lot, and still they themselves didn't make as much noise as has been portrayed in media. Infact, each became famous thanks to incidents and entry of people who were famous. Singur became famous more so once Trinamool Congress entered the fray agitating for the local people. Gujarat became famous because of NGO's and English media entering in to cover the riots live (the local Gujarati media was involved in biased reporting, that too made it famous). And tribals have not managed to gain the attention of the media, because important political formations and/or the upper elites of society have not involved themselves in the struggle of the tribals. What I basically wanted to say was that, the Pandits have yes, been fighting for the cause of justice for the past 19-20 years. And yes, they may not have received any support from the NGO's or the government. But does that mean, that you can go on asking for retribution in the name of justice? And more importantly, if the govt. of India is willing to provide them houses in the Valley itself, why is it so that Pandits are not willing to return at all? Let me clearly state here. There has been a complete breakdown of trust between the Pandits and the Kashmiri Muslims. The incidents of 1990, whichever way one looks at it, has resulted in disastrous consequences of today. On one hand, Kashmiri Pandits have still not been able to return back to their homeland. On the other, Kashmiri Muslims have been subjected to living under an 'army state' where all freedoms have been clamped down on, which is against the very notion of 'democracy'. And for me, both are wrong. And the solution of Panun Kashmir, which you as a community have proposed(not all may be, but certainly some have put up this solution), is not the solution because it won't be backed by the Muslims living in the Valley, though I am not against putting it up for referendum. Similarly, the rights of minorities must be protected, and therefore the rights of Pandits to their homeland must be accepted. Therefore, the important thing is not only to ask for justice, but also in some sense, forgive people by not at least asking for death sentences by the Pandits on one hand, and by surrendering arms and voluntarily facing cases on the part of Kashmiri Muslims on the other (here I refer to those who took up arms, not those who didn' t do so). Secondly, there has to be a dialogue between both the communities to build trust for each other. That should be the path ahead for the return of Pandits. As I see it, I dont' see either of the steps having been taken uptill now. Can you at least, being one of the speakers for the Kashmiri Pandits (one of the many speakers, actually) tell whether you made efforts for the same? For after all, not all Muslims living in your very homeland area can be 'traitors'. And as you yourself accept, they are human beings. I haven't called you pseudos. What I say is that there's a limit to going around portraying yourself as a victim, to justify any action of yours. And finally one more thing. It has been time and again said that democratic elections in J&K are not the substitute for the dominant feeling of 'azadi', and the people there, majority of them want 'azadi', with or without Hurriyat. Since you (and I think many in rest of India) feel that this is not the case, I think that the Indian Union should better conduct a referendum in the Valley and make the results public to find out whether people really want azadi or not. If they want it, then better give it. If they don't want it, you can burn declare public holidays commemorating the same occasion, and can also burn my effigies. I have no problems for that effect. The reason why I ask for the referendum is this. If I am true, I know I will always win no matter how much someone conspires against me. Then why not let the truth win once again, if you believe (and so many in rest of India believe) that your side is true. Go ahead, and do it. And while I have no pain at all with Kashmiri Pandits raising their voice against the Indian Govt, what I have pain with is that the Pandits feel that only they are democratic, whereas the 'azadi struggle' is undemocratic. Infact, Kashmiris are now being painted by the brush of terrorism and being Pakistanis, whereby it is being stated that Kashmiris want to be Pakistanis. The fact is that as numerous surveys and interviews of common people bring out, they want to be independent of both India and Pakistanis. And more importantly, even in an azad Kashmir, I believe that Pandits deserve to have a place there. And therefore, I am not in favor of any independent state till any resolution of the place of Pandits in this new state and the local society is found. Regards Rakesh From alice at tank.tv Tue Feb 3 15:00:34 2009 From: alice at tank.tv (Alice O'Reilly) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:30:34 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] www.tank.tv : Alexander Heim : 1st - 14th February 2009 Message-ID: <442eb4460902030130o4147093blbaefe0e530e01e0b@mail.gmail.com> *tank.tv is pleased to present a selection of work from Alexander Heim including: Costa, Three Seasons, Untitled (Dog), Grand Walk and Matalan. * "(Heim's) new film Costa (2008) tracks the daily activities of pigeons at a busy coffee shop, following one bird scratching about the feet of commuters, another skittering across a marble floor and a third bracing itself against the wind in a concrete ledge, solemn as an eagle. With painstaking care they hunt for the scraps between glinting metal chairs, clamber up gigantic steps and outwit oblivious shows. The look faintly ludicrous but supremely resourceful. The birds perspective translates familiar surrounding into foreign territory; a station concourse gleams like an immense frozen lake, its menacing cashpoint the mouth to hell; the complicated shadow of a railing is not a reminder of an environment shaped by caring human hands but a welcome rush-hour haven. In a city planned with no thought of pigeons as its users, these benighted tacticians are transcendent. (..) Heim strips away the literalness of everyday life, revealing the mysteries contained in the most commonplace. It is no coincidence that he selects the least loved of all birds to be the focus of this lyrical inquiry. The ubiquitous pigeon is emblematic of those inconsequential things that surround us, the routine stuff that so often goes unexamined. the result is no dour pronouncement by the artist on the fate of the dispossessed but a witty celebration of existence on the margins. The birds come across not as pitiable outcasts but as profound seekers after truth; driven by some internal compass they make their own way in the city, discovering their own paths, becoming poets of their own acts." *Kate Forde, Frieze, November 2008. * Alexander Heim studied at the Hochschule fur Bildende Kunste Hamburg, gaining a diploma in fine art in 2004, before completing an MFA at Goldsmiths College, London in 2006. Recent exhibitions include: 'Doves' at doggerfisher, Edinburgh; Feeling gave way to structure, The approach E2, London; Nought to Sixty, ICA, London and Drei Jahreszeiten (Three Seasons), Galerie Karin Guenther Hamburg. Alexander Heim currently lives and works in London. -- -- - - - - - - - - - - - - Alice O'Reilly tank.tv 2nd Floor Princess House 50 - 60 Eastcastle Street London W1W 8EA alice at tank.tv T: +44 (0)207323 3475 F: +44 (0)207631 4280 http://www.tank.tv - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Now showing: Alexander Heim 1st - 14th February 2009 'Fresh Moves' - Order your copy on www.tank.tv "A significant archive of creative practices in the early years of twenty-first century England" Tyler Coburn, Tomorrow Unlimited --- tank.tv is an inspirational showcase for innovative work in film and video. Dedicated to exhibiting and promoting emerging and established international artists, www.tank.tv acts as a major online gallery and archive for video art. A platform for contemporary moving images. From indersalim at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 23:17:24 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 23:17:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice In-Reply-To: References: <47e122a70902020709g47d9fac6x4be284809c28f1fc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70902050947p71f2b442u248d3bd1b920196e@mail.gmail.com> Dear All i remember, some two years back i had posted the following piece here on the list. i am doing it again. i hope the debate on Kashmir opens a little more seriously than it is now. ......what ever is written is too predictable, too obvious,..... I want to hear something which stimulates my intellect. i am merely provoking ......may be i am playing selfishly...so, here it is once again: ................................................................................................................................... The day the Palestinians become a nation like other nations, I will no longer be on their side. Jean Genet THE OTHER I said to them, spontaneously Take away your Kashmir, Just take away, It is all yours. They laughed, then looked At each others faces with disbelief, But grabbed quickly: The Azadi Freedom in their hands was water As pure as one drinks At the beginning of a river. Their hands were as big as valley itself And they merrily moved towards Their homes like the river itself. This Freedom, still water like, Not a just born baby as yet, So they went to martyrs graves first. There they quenched the thirst of The Dead, who by technique Drank a water within this water. This freedom still water like, Had to be taken to a place like Secretariat, if one goes by Theory. But they instead kept on gazing at its Myriad faces, which perhaps delayed Its instant shelving into structures That was the time it revealed its Unpredictable face, which unnerved even Those who held it lovingly in their hands. Its sudden surge inundated all the Barbed wiring and dead walls; Crossing new frontiers. New thoughts, new soil and old Seeds were passing through the Alimentary canal of earth's friendly worms. All the excreta of all the animals unanimously dissolving their egos: 'Love' was declared: The only God. ( to be continued ) On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 2:34 AM, Lalit Ambardar wrote: > Coming from the author of such a touching presentation like "na ches taty, > na yeti"( i am neither there nor here) this attempt to surrect now almost > abandoned 'original sinner' who founded the 'gun' culture in the valley at > the behest of his Pakistani masters is intriguing. > > Kashmiris, in the past two decades have gone through the hell - > the selective brutal targetting that led to the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri > Hindu Pandits in the valley -the plight of ordinary Kashmiri Muslims who > were coerced in to following the jihadi diktats- the destruction of the very > social fabric called Kashmiriyat etc. etc.........& who claimed credit for > having ferried weapons in to Kashmir to launch the jihad - the one you are > trying to glorify. > > Please,understand he does not represent the Kashmiri Muslims - last year but > for the timely intervention of the security forces his cohorts would have > been lynched by the followers of that part time moolvi/separatist Umar > Farooq when JKLF wanted to open an outlet in the territory of Umar Farooq > only a couple of kilometres away from the JKLF fiefdom . > > The misery of exodus is not missed in your post but the frustration canot > be justify glorification of a terrorist . > > It is difficult to guess the motive that has driven a well qualified artist > towards a terror commander at whose instigation & motivation hundreds of > docile Kashmiri Muslims, in the name of Islam,embraced death leaving behind > their mothers ,widows & orphans wailling for their loved ones. > > It could be akin to the infatuation of that Napales damsel for that serial > 'bikini killer' or it is all in the name of jihad......????.... > > > Will marital bliss to this killer of Kashmiriyat make him repent for his > deeds .......???..... > > Or is this a ploy to generate sympathy to escape the law.....????.......or > part of a new game.....???..... > > Regards all > LA > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > >> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:39:25 +0530 >> From: indersalim at gmail.com >> To: reader-list at sarai.net >> Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice >> >> Dear all >> Please click the web site by Musaall Mullick, Fiancée of Yasin Malik, >> the well known 'rebel' leader from Jammu and Kashmir. I think it is >> interesting. >> >> http://mushaalmullick.com/default.aspx >> >> I have pasted this link, precisely to see some meaning in Yasin >> Malik's choice. One of Musaall's water colour is titled 'Shame of the >> Humanity'. It shows a young girl child who deserves all the attention. >> >> Yasin Malik has lot of admirers and critic around the world; that >> applies even to Kashmir valley. Only time will tell us how seriously >> he grasped the Kashmir issue. >> >> Perhaps, this latest step speaks something about his priorities. >> Certainly, if SAS Geelani, his Hurriyat colleague, was young and >> going to be married, he would not have chosen a girl like Musaall as >> his Shareek-e-Hayyat ( better half ), but some one who would prefer to >> stay behind veil all the time. >> >> One of the water colour of Musaall depicts a woman with a Bindi ( >> predominately used by Hindu women ). What does that mean? It means, a >> Swat Valley like situation is certainly not Yasin Malik's cup of tea, >> but something which has a space for freedom, freedom of choice, >> particularly for women. >> >> Only time will tell us whether Yasin's Malik's Safar-e-Azadi will take >> Kashmir on the path which is meaningful for both Musaall-Malik jodi >> but People in general as well. There is ray of hope hidden in his >> choice to wed a painter living in London. Imran Khan, the >> cricketer-politician did almost similar to that, but failed to mix his >> choice with his political vision. Will Yasin too follow Imran, or will >> he let Musaall speak her mind freely ? >> >> Kashmir is seriously looking forward to see someone who speaks boldly >> about the situation of women in J&K. For example, no woman in J&K has >> any legal rights to retain a square inch of land in case she happens >> to get married to a non-J&K citizen. That is truly against Women. But >> slowly, I want Yasin to speak about this issue as well, even at the >> cost of popularity. No previous govt has dared to speak about this >> issue. The present Govt in J&K too will never support any idea like >> that. So, he can outwit them on this account. This is golden chance. >> Things like that can bring some real changes for a smooth and >> dignified return of Kashmiri Pandits to Valley. >> >> The other issue is environment, which is as serious as Women's issues. >> I have not gone though his agenda of Safray-Azadi but I wish issues >> like that are thoroughly woven in his Azadi text. He needs to speak >> about the need to protect the flora and fauna in J&K, besides a >> sincere call for a simple living. He needs to talk about the revival >> of folk arts and other forms of artistic expressions. >> >> This I am writing at a time when J&K is entering a special post free >> election phase for a great good governance. But that is that. We still >> have KASHMIR ISSUE, staring into our eyes as before. So, when every >> other intellectual in India is dismissive about Hurriyat who obviously >> gained nothing by giving Boycott call for Elections; I see them very >> much there, as significant as ever. >> >> Indeed people like me who were victims of 1990 approach to Kashmir >> Problem, but I believe, that some fresh approach is needed to >> understand Kashmir. It just happens that Kashmir is a Muslim Majority >> area, but Kashmir is not a Muslim problem, but a problem similar to >> Buddhist Tibet. There has to be some inner need to understand the >> troubles which a line called 'territory' inflicts on us. Why Kashmir >> was divided. What is LOC after all? >> >> I know, there will be lot of angry reaction to this small mail, but I >> hope some restraint, and cool minded approach. I am truly myself >> looking for some answers. I don't see a great politician around with >> some vision to bring a real change in our society, both at grass root >> level and beyond. >> >> Capitalistic and narrow minded politics has ruined our systems of >> living, and we are left with a situation like in Gaza where Israel is >> openly killing women and children. Europe and America are silent, >> which means they are not bothered by Palestine problem as they see it. >> So, Hamas is bad, even when they have people's support. >> >> So, imagine, if tomorrow Hurriyat decides to fight elections in J&K , >> and if they come to power and declare freedom on the very first day of >> office, what choice India has? Arrest them there, with head lines >> against Indian Democracy all over the world. So, is non-participation >> is a blessing in disguise for Indian Government ? >> >> Let us talk to Yasin, more meaningfully, than before. I am talking >> on my own behalf. >> >> With love and regards >> Inder salim >> >> >> -- >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > ________________________________ > Need more space to upload pictures? Get 25 GB online storage with Windows > Live SkyDrive! Try it! -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From turbulence at turbulence.org Wed Feb 4 01:37:45 2009 From: turbulence at turbulence.org (Turbulence) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 15:07:45 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Turbulence | ShiftSpace Commission: "Yeas and Nays" by Christian Croft Message-ID: <025801c9863b$1c924430$55b6cc90$@org> February 3, 2009 Turbulence | ShiftSpace Commission: "Yeas and Nays" by Christian Croft http://www.shiftspace.org/spaces/yeas-and-nays/ http://turbulence.org/works/shiftspace "Yeas and Nays" is a browser plug-in that transforms any webpage into a means for contacting Congressional representatives. It is the latest functionality added to Shiftspace.org, an application that provides an open source layer above any website. "Yeas and Nays" is a powerful tool that translates knowledge into action. By invoking the "Yeas and Nays" interface -- which calls elected representatives -- readers can respond immediately to the issues they care about. Their phone calls are recorded so that others can learn to articulate their views effectively. "Yeas and Nays" was awarded first place in the "The ShiftSpace Commissions Program" (http://turbulence.org/works/shiftspace), a 2007 commission of New Radio and Performing Arts, Inc., (aka Ether-Ore) for its Turbulence web site. It was made possible with funding from the New York City Department of Cultural Affairs. ShiftSpace provides a new public space on the web. By pressing the [Shift] + [Space] keys, a ShiftSpace user can invoke a new meta layer above any web page to browse and create additional interpretations, contextualizations and interventions -- which are called "Shifts". Users can choose between several authoring tools -- called "Spaces" -- that allow web users to annotate, modify and shift the content of a page and through ShiftSpace, share that shift with the rest of the web. "Trails" are maps of shifts (shiftspace content) that create meta-layer navigation across websites. These trails might be used as a platform for collaborative research, for curating net art exhibitions, or as a way to facilitate a context-based public debate. BIOGRAPHY As an artist in an age of exponential information growth, CHRISTIAN CROFT'S work harnesses public data flows, filtering their contents to reveal changes in how people communicate. His work translates information trails into new and often contrary spaces to highlight the sociological influence of new technologies. Croft's production methods include web programming, DIY electronics, rapid prototyping machinery, and telephone system networking. His work has been shown at The Kitchen Summer Institute, Centre Pompidou, Georgia Museum of Art, Athens Institute of Contemporary Art (ATHICA), Rhizome Artbase, EYEBEAM Upgrade!, SIGGRAPH 2007, and Conflux 2007. Jo-Anne Green, Co-Director New Radio and Performing Arts, Inc.: http://new-radio.org New York: 917.548.7780 . Boston: 617.522.3856 Turbulence: http://turbulence.org Networked_Performance Blog: http://turbulence.org/blog Networked_Music_Review: http://turbulence.org/networked_music_review Upgrade! Boston: http://turbulence.org/upgrade New American Radio: http://somewhere.org _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From pradeepdas4 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 13:27:00 2009 From: pradeepdas4 at yahoo.com (Pradeep Das) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 23:57:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] 4th Gorakhpur Film Festival - from February 5 to 8, 2008 at Gorakhpur, Uttar Pradesh, India- 273001 Message-ID: <296976.67122.qm@web52009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Friends, Jan Sanskriti Manch in association with EXPRESSION, Gorakhpur Film Society cordially invite you to the 4th Gorakhpur Film Festival – Cinema of Resistance - from February 5 to 8, 2008 to be held at Gokul Atithi Bhawan, Civil Lines, Gorakhpur, Uttar Pradesh, India- 273001   Main Theme of the Festival: Towards the Freedom from American Imperialism.   No Entry fee or Invitation card is required   Main Attractions of the Festival:   * A talk by Booker-prize winner writer and activist, Arundhati Roy   * Screening of Girish Kasaravalli’s award winning film – Gulabi Talkies and interaction with the director   * Screening of documentary film based on Brazil’s Land Reform movement - MST (Movimento Sem Terra) – with Hindi Subtitles and Interaction with the director, Gibby Zobel   * A special section on Yílmaz Güney and other Turkish filmmakers   * An exclusive art exhibition by renowned artist Ashok Bhowmick & a lecture on anti-war movement by him   * One morning session dedicated to screening of choicest Children’s films   * A programme of folk & revolutionary songs by Hirabal - a famous cultural group of Patna   * A book exhibition of world literature   * Book release of ‘Pehli Kitab – a monograph on 10 great film directors of the world   * Screening of a video documentary based on an interview with renowned filmmaker MS Sathyu   And many more…   With warm regards, Sanjay Joshi Convener  3rd Gorakhpur Film Festival                               Contact Address: C- 303 Jansatta Apartments, Sector 9, Vasundhara, Ghaziabad, Uttar Pradesh, India-201012 Mobile: 9811577426, 0120-2885017 E mail id: gorakhpurkafilmfestival at gmail.com   Expression address: Shri Manoj Singh Convener, Expression 71 MIG,Rapti Nagar Phase I, Gorakhpur, Uttar Pradesh, India – 273003 Mobile:9415282206 Email id: gorakhpurkafilmfestival at gmail.com                                                                      ,   Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/ -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From anivar.aravind at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 07:40:38 2009 From: anivar.aravind at gmail.com (Anivar Aravind) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 07:40:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] ViBGYOR 2009 Day 1 Updates Message-ID: <35f96d470902051810r1107155m9008dc03b945d295@mail.gmail.com> Dear Friends Some of us are trying to communicate the discussions & programmes in ViBGYOR 2009 through an Event Blog (With all the difficulties for getting the internet access) Please follow the updates at http://2009.vibgyorfilm.com/news/ Statement by VIBGYOR International Film Festival to Release Dr. Binayak Sen http://2009.vibgyorfilm.com/2009/02/statement-by-vibgyor-international-film-festival-to-release-dr-binayak-sen/ Food sovereignty is already being implemented http://2009.vibgyorfilm.com/2009/02/food-sovereignty-is-already-being-implemented/ A Guest Post about Food Security National Conference & Inauguration by Benny Kuruvila (Focus on Global South) Signature Video http://2009.vibgyorfilm.com/2009/02/signature-video-of-vibgyor-2009/ Signature Video Soundtrack as Ringtone Is Very Popular Now Stalls In ViBGYOR http://2009.vibgyorfilm.com/2009/02/stalls-in-vibgyor-2009/ Appeal From ViBGYOR http://2009.vibgyorfilm.com/2009/02/appeal-from-vibgyor/ Stay Tuned for Updates Anivar Aravind -- Any responsible politician should be encouraging a home grown Free Software industry because it creates the basis for future jobs. Learning Windows is like learning to eat every meal at McDonalds. From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 10:12:03 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 10:12:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice In-Reply-To: References: <776819.99479.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <47e122a70902030616o735a281dn72f781916ebe25d0@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902030841h46c5c975rcf2c546473c869b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902052042x1f05a1a0j5433882c67f6c8ed@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh , NamaskAr Thank you for your mail. There is a distinction between what happened in Nandigram and other places and what happened to Kashmiri Pandits. I do understand that pain and fear in nandigram may not have any other equal as well. You are young man and need to understand the difference. What happened to Kashmiri Pandits was not something which happened for the first time or which lasted a short time. The same thing of victimisation of Kashmiri pandits has been going on for last 1000 years which witnessed more than 8 exodus of Kashmiri Pandits from the valley. Yasin Malik , in particular needs to be tried as another terrorist . I do agree that it is duty of indian courts and law to enable trial, but whatever Aditya is writing is out of his own anger of not having received justice. Yasin Malik may have given up arms , but this is no age of Lord Buddha where 'Angulimala" needs to be pardoned. He was the first to get arms in the valley [ his own admission ], and if he did not kill people with those arms, i wonder what he did .There is no denying that even the state police was full of separatist forces who did nothing to register cases. Even you may be surprised that only for one case FIR has been registered for Kashmiri Hindus, though thousands were selectively killed . And the one case which got registered was that of Mr Wanchoo who was on side of these separatists only. Does this absolve all terrorists of killing of Kashmiri Pandits ? As far as Panun Kashmir is considered , it is a fair demand of not only Kashmiri Pandits , but millions of secular citizens ,including muslims of this country who want free flow of Indian constituion in that part of valley. For a Kashmiri Pandit , keeping the pain alive and fighting for Justice is a passion . You need to appreciate it . And as a young man , you need to understand the whole issue , before you draw conclusions. Warm regards Pawan On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 9:17 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Aditya > > After reading your mail, I must certainly respond to certain points raised > in your mail. > > The first point is that of retribution. You have said that Yasin Malik > 'should know how it feels > when bullet passes through his empty skull!' . This is highly atrocious > according to me, as atrocious as the migration of Kashmiri Pandits was. > While I don't deny that the Pandits didn't deserve to be punished for being > Indians, it doesn't mean that if Yasin Malik first organized violence, then > retributive action must be pursued against him. This already speaks of your > own mentality. > > Mind you. It's not as if I don't feel retributive at all; there are times > when I feel that all BJP supporters should be cut down to pieces, and like > they organized Gujarat, all their supporters should be completely burnt in > an organized manner, so that they are never there back in the society. > However, I do realize, though somewhat late (fortunately this violent > streak > in me never materializes), that this is not the way to go about solving > such > problems. I don't agree with BJP, and those who follow it ideologically, > but > they are also human beings and deserve dignity and right to life as much as > I do. > > But you seem to have completely forgotten that. As much as you deserve > dignity of life and right to life, Yasin Malik also deserves it. And if you > think that he is an animal, don't forget that animals also have rights in > today's times(PETA is one of the organizations fighting for animals' > rights). > > Secondly, doesn't a criminal deserve the chance to improve back on what he > did, and become a better human being? According to what I have heard, Yasin > Malik, was sentenced to jail in 1994-94, during which he had read 'My > Experiments With Truth' , the autobiography of Mahatma Gandhi, and after > reading it, asked JKLF, his own organization to lay down arms. Since then, > he has repeatedly asked for stopping of all violence, and also repeatedly > stated that Kashmiri Pandits should also be a part of 'azad' Kashmir. > Moreover, he has stated that violence doesn't lead to any solution; it > leads > only to more violence. > > Now, coming back to your point. Thirdly, if Yasin Malik is responsible for > the rapes and killings in the Valley to begin with, which led to the exodus > of the Pandits on a large scale, there are cases pending against him. Get > those cases tried quickly, put pressure on the Indian Union, and get him > convicted if you have evidence to back your claim, instead of first > indulging in PR-exercise on sarai list, and following the tried and tested > policy of Bush and Modi, which is 'repeat a thing 1000 times, and it > becomes > the truth'. If Malik is responsible for all this, can't you get him > sentenced in any case? Or is only repeating perceptions and spreading them > within your control, and getting him tried and convicted beyond your > control? > > Fourthly. From the way I have seen, it seems that Kashmiri Pandits always > want to put themselves up as victims to earn sympathies and brownie points > all the time. I have never seen these kind of comments from other kinds of > victims or refugees come up, be it Nandigram and Singur people who suffered > due to the machinisations of the Left Front Govt. of Bengal, nor be the > tribals who suffer in various states right from policies of development > which are flawed to the Salwa Judums and others; nor have I seen Muslims > complaining themselves so much about the conditions in which they are > living > post-2002 riots. > > Who says Pandits haven't suffered? I dont' say that. And neither does > anyone > on this list say that? But it seems that Pandits have decided that any > solution on Kashmir should only and only take them into account. As if > Pandits only are humans, and all the Kashmiri Muslims are inhumans. So > today > they want Panun Kashmir, and it must be given to them on a platter, > disregarding the fact that a majority of population in Kashmir don't want > that. Similarly, what they want is justified, and if somebody has a view > contrary to that, he/she is either an anti-national or a terrorist. Why, > may > I know that? > > I would suggest Pandits, to stop acting as citizens, and first of all act > as > human beings. That would be better. Citizenship is an invention of history, > but human beings are not. At least learn humanity first. Try to understand > that even your 'opponents' in this case are human beings, and try to > inculcate teachings of your own religion (Hinduism) before propagating any > kind of violence against them. > > It doesn't mean you dont' ask for justice. It means that you don't ask for > retributive action against them. > > Regards > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 12:04:25 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 12:04:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902052234mf36357cid05177b9e859f7ad@mail.gmail.com> Interesting petition , where people can vote can be found at this link http://www.petitiononline.com/mohajir/petition.html To: The People of Karachi FORMATION OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR According to my proposed plan, the Southern port city of Pakistan called Karachi shall become the Republic of Jinnahpur. This proposed formation of Republic of Jinnahpur shall be in line with the anticipated plan towards Pakistan's disintegration in the best interest of world's peace and elimination of terrorism as envisioned by me in my earlier book titled "DIVIDE PAKISTAN TO ELIMINATE TERRORISM". The name Republic of Jinnahpur is given in view of the fact that Muhammad Ali Jinnah who was leader of Muslim League back in 1940s in the United India and who had struggled for the formation of Pakistan was born in Karachi on December 25, 1876. Muhammad Ali Jinnah's mausoleum is also in Karachi. "All conflicts are identity conflicts" said John Paul Lederach, Professor of International Peacebuilding at The Joan B. Kroc Institute for International Peace Studies, University of Notre Dame, Indiana, USA. This statement is, in my opinion, very conclusive to explain the very nature and significance of all conflicts existing either at international level or regional level. All such conflicts are basically 'identity conflicts'. In recent years, scholars have taken an intense interest in questions concerning identity. In comparative politics, "identity" plays a central role in work on nationalism and ethnic conflict. In international relations, the idea of "state identity" is at the heart of constructivist critiques of realism and analyses of state sovereignty. And in political theory, questions of "identity" mark numerous arguments on gender, sexuality, nationality, ethnicity, and culture in relation to liberalism and its alternatives. Compared to recent scholarship in history and the humanities, however, political scientists remain undecided when it comes to work on identities. Despite this vastly increased and broad-ranging interest in "identity," the concept itself remains a controversy. A "failed state" is one that has a "shattered social and political structure". In the words of former Secretary-General of the United Nations, Boutros Boutros-Ghali: 'A feature of such conflicts is the collapse of state institutions, especially the police and judiciary, with resulting paralysis of governance, a breakdown of law and order, and general banditry and chaos. Not only are the functions of government suspended, but its assets are destroyed or looted and experienced officials are killed or flee the country. This is rarely the case in inter-state wars. It means that international intervention must extend beyond military and humanitarian tasks and must include the promotion of international reconciliation and the re-establishment of effective government.'" The Telegraph newspaper has reported recently in an editorial that Pakistan is a failed state hosting both nuclear weapons and alQaeda's core leadership; a unique combination which makes it the world's most dangerous country. According to the paper, if threats to global security in terms of terrorism, nuclear weapons and the spread of failed states are considered, Pakistan stands at the nexus of all three phenomena. Whoever emerges from the present political maelstrom to lead Pakistan will have to deal with the country's unofficial status as al-Qaeda's heartland, the paper adds. According to the Telegraph, the Pakistani state is so weak that armed Islamist groups have a free rein over large areas. In Balochistan, an ethnic insurgency is underway. In Karachi, Pakistan's largest city and the commercial capital, a ruthless political machine linked to organised crime, is in charge, while Peshawar is seen as the hotbed of Islamist zealotry. Therefore, Pakistan for all practical purposes is very close to disintegration, and could most definitely be termed as a 'failed state'. Noted philosopher and political activist Noam Chomsky also recently said that Pakistan was a "paradigm example of a failed state" that had undergone an "extremely dangerous form of radical Islamisation." The country was now in danger of "collapsing" as it grappled with rebellion, militancy and extremism that was "getting worse". Asked to draw a parallel between the situation in Pakistan and the characteristics of a failed state highlighted in his book "Failed States", Chomsky said, "I am afraid to say Pakistan is the paradigm example of a failed state and has been for a long time. It has had military rule, violence and oppression." Since the 1980s, the country had undergone an extremely dangerous form of radical Islamisation, which had undermined a good part of the society, under the Zia-ul-Haq tyranny, he said. "Now it is in danger of collapsing, there is a rebellion in Balochistan, the (Federally Administered Tribal Areas) territories are out of control and always have been and it is getting worse. In view of this accepted and recognized fact that Pakistan is going to disintegrate any time from now, it is important that all nations living under siege of presently undivided Pakistan's military dictatorship should begin efforts for their respective liberation as envisioned by me in my earlier book titled "DIVIDE PAKISTAN TO ELIMINATE TERRORISM". Being a member of a family which had migrated from India in early 50s and settled in Karachi, the port city of presently undivided Pakistan, it has now become my duty to caution my friends and brothers back in Pakistan particularly in Karachi to stop dreaming about a united Pakistan. To implement my vision of dividing Pakistan and forming 6 new countries in South Asia by disintegrating Pakistan, I would like to start this campaign by proposing formation of REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR. This book shall highlight reasons, causes and necessary elements for the formation of Republic of Jinnahpur. This is my humble prayer that Karachi should soon become Republic of Jinnahpur. Ameen. Formation of Republic of Jinnahpur is inevitable as soon as possible before the Pakistan Army decides to launch yet another 1992-like genocide in Karachi. I suggest to Mr. Altaf Hussain, leader of MQM which is the single most influential political force of 'Mohajirs' (Migrants from India who had settled in Pakistan at the time of breakup of United India in 1947) to utilize these precious moments of his life by giving a call for formation of Republic of Jinnahpur by launching Jinnahpur Liberation Movement under the banner of MQM. I hope the people of Karachi will loudly say "YES" to his call. What I am saying is very simple. Urdu-speaking people living in Karachi, Hyderabad, Sukkur and other cities in the province of Sindh (Pakistan) deserve their own country. An independent country for Urdu-speaking people will solve their economic problems on one hand and provide an environment of freedom from the military dictatorship of Punjab province on the other. Time has now come that the cruel domination of Punjab must end by all means. The Punjabi military has been ruling Pakistan ever since its inception. The Urdu-speaking great leaders who had struggled for the freedom of Pakistan were brutally murdered as part of the Punjabi conspiracy to hijack the country. It has become inevitable now that Punjab should no longer be given the right or power to continue its control on other smaller provinces of Pakistan. At least Sindhis, Pathans and Balochis have some of their regional identities but the Urdu-speaking people have been compelled to become Sindhis which is not possible. Urdu-speaking people have their own identity and worth. It is not possible for Urdu-speaking people to become part of Sindh. This attempt to make Urdu-speaking people part of Sindh has always failed. This fact that Urdu-speaking people are independent in their thinking and are able to represent themselves more effectively if they are independent, should be accepted and recognized by the whole world. One cannot force a French person to become German or a Czech citizen to become Spanish or a Polish citizen to become Russian, similarly, one should also not force an Urdu-speaking citizen to become Sindhi. Urdu language is much different from Sindhi language. Not only language, there is glaring difference in terms of culture, traditions, national character, vision, approach, mindset and above all religious thinking. Indeed Sindhis are brothers of Urdu-speaking people in their joint effort to get rid of Punjab's political domination through achieving independence of Jinnahpur and Sindhudesh. Urdu-speaking people cannot be forced to stay with Sindhis forever and without their own right of freedom. Both Urdu-speaking people and Sindhis deserve their respective identities through formation of Jinnahpur and Sindhudesh. Both these nations are not ready to remain under the umbrella of socalled Pakistan which is nothing but a political colony of Punjab. This colony must, therefore, disintegrate without any further delay. If other separatist movements in the world are accepted and acknowledged worldwide, movement for a free and independent state for Urdu-speaking people currently living under dictatorial siege of Pakistan army should also be embraced by the United States of America and other Western nations. If Kosovo can get independence in 21st century, why not Urdu-speaking people of Pakistan can get their own country called Republic of Jinnahpur. Urdu-speaking people are also intelligent, educated, hardworking and politically sound to fight for their independence in the 21st century. Urdu-sepaking people should not be under estimated or considered as any regional minority of Pakistan. Urdu-speaking people represent the most educated class in the presently undivided Pakistan. When it come to educational statistics of Pakistan in the field of education, the contribution of Urdu-speaking people is upto 80\%. It must be noted that Pakistan without Urdu-speaking people is nothing but a jungle of illiterates from Punjab and people in uniform who have hijacked this country for the economic betterment of military dictators along with Punjabi bureacracy and their families. Republic of Jinnahpur shall be an economic capital of South Asia which will beat Dubai and Singapore on one hand and become a great place for foreign investment on the other. The deserving people of Republic of Jinnahpur will have job opportunities because of billions of dollars of foreign investment which is at present hindred because of terrorist activities sponsored by Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and other military sponsored organizations. Such terrorist activities conducted by Pakistan's ISI and other military sponsored militant organizations have rather blocked the economic progress of Karachi which in turn have created hurdles for the deserving educated Urdu-speaking class to invite foreign investment into Karachi. It is only possible if Karachi gets its independence and formation of Republic of Jinnahpur shall ensure that the deserving Urdu-speaking people will get their right of progress and prosperity under the banner of an independent country called Republic of Jinnahpur. Pakistan has been declared a failed state and therefore remaining part of Pakistan means declaring ourselves as failed too. Urdu-speaking people of Karachi cannot be classified as failed because it is due to them that Pakistan has been surviving so far. Had there been no educated class making contribution towards Pakistan's economic growth in the last 60 years, Pakistan would not have reached to the level where it is now. However, due to its political failure and its inability to remain as a sovereign state, Pakistan is very close to its disintegration. In such a situation, it would not be ideal for Urdu-speaking people to remain intact with Pakistan. Rather, it is important that Urdu-speaking people should initiate their fight for freedom while Pathans, Balochis and Sindhis should follow suit. Republic of Jinnahpur can establish a precedence for freedom of all nations currently suffering under the military siege of Punjab. When I say "Punjab", I do not intend to include those great people of Punjab who consider themselves as Ghulaman-e-Ahl-e-Bait (Servants of Holy Prophet Muhammad SA, His beloved daughter Hazrat Bibi Fatima AS, His loyal son-in-law Hazrat Ali AS, His beloved grand sons Hassan AS and Hussain AS) and also the Seraiki nation who were wrongfully made part of Punjab province by the cruel Punjabi politicians in order to gain monetary gains by manipulating the total population of Punjab province. Even after 60 years, the Seraiki belt has been economically kept backward while poor Punjabi servants of Ahl-e-Bait were deprived of their constitutional right of serving in the Pakistan Army because of Wahabi-oriented policies made by Asian Hitler called General Zia-ul-Haq back in 1979 which kept Shia and true Barelvi Sunni Muslims away from army jobs. The doors of Republic of Jinnahpur shall remain open for such Punjabi brothers forever. As for the Pathans, Balochis and Sindhis, I would like to convey my message to them that they should also get up from long sleep. The Punjabi military killed several Pathan freedom fighters, Baloch freedom fighters and even stabbed Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto who had brought back home 90,000 Punjabi Prisoners of War. The brutality of Punjabi military can be evaluated on the basis of their one single act that they stabbed and killed Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto who was their rescuer from Indian prison. Not only this, the Punjabi military recently killed Benazir Bhutto in order to wipe her off from the political scene to keep the status quo alive. The murder of Bhuttos should be sufficient for the Sindhis to wake up and get their own independence from Pakistan by forming Sindhudesh. Similarly, independent Pakhtoonistan and Balochistan should also appear on the world map in the nearest future. The Urdu-speaking people are peace-loving people in true perspective. They dont want any confrontation, however, they have their right to defend themselves against the brutality of Punjabi army. The Urdu-speaking people shall not become victim of yet another Operation Cleanup which was once conducted by Punjabi army in 1992. Nawaz Sharif and his Punjabi political team of hypocrites cannot succeed in their conspiracy to regain substantial power again although they have just swallowed a bitter pill of shaking hands with Asif Zardari, a Sindhi man and spouse of Shaheed Benazir Bhutto. It is important that Asif Zardari should immediately understand conspiracy and hidden agenda of Nawaz Sharif and his political team of hypocrites who do not possess any sympathy or love for any nation otherthan typical Wahabi minded Punjabis. Nawaz Sharif is only waiting for the right time to confront Asif Zardari and as such Nawaz Sharif will definitely attempt to get into Pakistan's National Assembly through a by-election and thereafter challenge Asif Zardari and Bhuttos' Sindh-based political party called Peoples' Party. I cannot accept for any reason that Nawaz Sharif or his political team of hypocrites would ever accept any Sindhi, Pathan, Baloch or Urdu-speaking person to become Pakistan's prime minister. This is impossible for any Punjabi hypocrite like Nawaz Sharif to extend his hand for cooperation or affection towards any Sindhi, Pathan, Baloch or Urdu-speaking person in the name of socalled political reconciliation. I ask all the politicians from Pakhtoonistan, Balochistan, Seraiki belt and Sindhudesh not to believe Nawaz Sharif and his false promises of mutual cooperation or other similar sweet slogans. A snake is always a snake. Nawaz Sharif cannot be trusted. I want all Urdu-speaking people living in Karachi, Hyderabad, Sukkur and other parts of Sindh to become active members of JINNAHPUR LIBERATION MOVEMENT. This movement shall be non-militant and non-violent in reality. This movement shall be run by Urdu-speaking intellectuals, educationists, workers, students, businessmen and politicians. This movement shall be peaceful and totally committed for creating international awareness about the great demand for an independent state called Republic of Jinnahpur by the Urdu-speaking people living under military siege of Pakistan army. As it has been established that Pakistan is a 100\% failed state and in view of the fact that living under military siege of Pakistan army in the disguise of an artificial democracy which has brought the same old faces of corrupt and cunning politicians from Punjab, time has come for the urdu-speaking nation to get up and acquire their own independent country called Republic of Jinnahpur. In order to achieve this task, there are many hurdles. However, impossible is nothing. Either we fail to prepare or prepare to fail. Urdu-speaking nation cannot afford to remain in such a situation that makes them rather a third class citizen in Pakistan. They are treated as "untouchables" like in India. They have no province of their own. They have no representation in the National Assembly according to their population simply because the powerful political parties from Punjab and Sindh want to restrict their entry into mainstream politics. The illiterate land owners representing the rural dynasty of Pakistan do not want educated urdu-speaking people to outclass them. These illiterate landlords and jagirdars want to keep their socalled superiority intact by depriving people of Pakistan from educational prosperity. They dont want urdu-speaking nation to spread their message of awareness among the masses and therefore these land lords and jagirdars are biggest advocates of status-quo in order to keep their control on the entire system of governance. Pakistan Army is the military arm of such elements which desire their own supremacy all over Pakistan. They dont want an educated urdu-speaking person to destroy their plans of dictatorship whether military or civil. I, therefore, suggest that MQM being the single political force of urdu-speaking nation of Pakistan should do the following immediately: 1. TO FORM JINNAHPUR LIBERATION MOVEMENT IMMEDIATELY WHICH SHOULD COMPRISE OF URDU-SPEAKING YOUTH, INTELLECTUALS, ARTISTS, BUSINESSMEN, STUDENTS, RELIGIOUS SCHOLARS, POLITICIANS, WRITERS & POETS, JOURNALISTS, MEMBERS OF CIVIL SOCIETY, EDUCATIONISTS AND PEOPLE FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE IN ORDER TO ACCELERATE MOVEMENT FOR ACQUIRING AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY CALLED REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR; 2. TO ORGANIZE A MASSIVE PLEBISCITE AND TAKE VOTES FROM URDU-SPEAKING NATION TO CONSOLIDATE THEIR DESIRE FOR AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY CALLED REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR; 3. TO COORDINATE WITH USA SENATORS, EU MEMBER STATES AND THE WORLD'S TOP HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS IN ORDER TO MAKE THEM AWARE ABOUT THE DEMANDS OF URDU-SPEAKING NATION LIVING IN PAKISTAN AND THEIR RIGHTS OF EXISTENCE WITH A SPECIFIC IDENTITY UNDER THE BANNER OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR; 4. TO APPROACH UNITED NATIONS TO SEND PEACE KEEPING TROOPS TO KARACHI IMMEDIATELY TO AVOID YET ANOTHER "OPERATION CLEAN UP" BY PAKISTAN ARMY ON THE PRETEXT OF ELIMINATION OF TERRORISM AND SABOTAGING THE MOVEMENT FOR INDEPENDENCE; 5. TO FILE OFFICIAL APPLICATION WITH THE OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY GENERAL OF THE UNITED NATIONS TO RECOGNIZE INDEPENDENCE OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR AND REQUEST FOR MILITARY AS WELL AS DIPLOMATIC ASSISTANCE OF THE UNITED NATIONS; 6. TO APPROACH MUSLIM WORLD AND DISSEMINATE INFORMATION TO THEM ABOUT THE POLITICAL RIGHTS OF URDU-SPEAKING NATION AND NEED FOR AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY FOR THEM; 7. TO ORGANIZE CONFERENCES, PRESS BRIEFINGS, SEMINARS, WORKSHOPS, MEETINGS AND FORA IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE WORLD IN ORDER TO CONVEY MESSAGE TO THE WHOLE WORLD ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE AND NEED OF AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY FOR URDU-SPEAKING NATION IN SOUTH ASIA FOR PEACE AND HARMONY IN THE REGION; 8. TO APPLY FOR MEMBERSHIP TO ALL REGIONAL AS WELL AS INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATIONS, GROUPS, TREATIES, CLUBS, UNIONS AND ORGANIZATIONS (TRADE OR OTHERWISE) ON BEHALF OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR; 9. TO FORM A GOVERNMENT-IN-EXILE OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR WITH IMMEDIATE EFFECT IN ANY EU COUNTRY OR USA OR INDIA; 10. TO APPROACH PARMANENT MEMBERS OF SUCURITY COUNCIL OF THE UNITED NATIONS TO SEEK THEIR CONSENT AND APPROVAL FOR FORMATION OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR BY PRESENTING TO THEM ALL FACTS AND FIGURES IN SUPPORT OF THE IDEA OF AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY FOR URDU-SPEAKING NATION IN SOUTH ASIA; SAY "YES" TO FORMATION OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR SYED JAMALUDDIN FRANCE www.dividepakistan.blogspot.com www.jinnahpur.blogspot.com jinnahpur at gmail.com From indersalim at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 12:04:39 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 12:04:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice In-Reply-To: References: <47e122a70902020709g47d9fac6x4be284809c28f1fc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70902052234q27e02712hcd0a26bbb92f493a@mail.gmail.com> Dear Lalit some one very interestingly wrote, that how India is happy to play cricket with Sri Lanka who have devastated the entire population of Sri Lankan Tamils, but have refused to play Pakistan. Sri Lanka and Pakistan happily played their series, and now Inida is happily playing their game. Note the word Game. The nation state is also a game, which suits it from time to time, Right, but we deserve to have our own view points about the games being played across the table. Now, with Yasin Malik, you are only proving me right. I quote you, "last year but for the timely intervention of the security forces his cohorts would have been lynched by the followers of that part time moolvi/separatist ..." Read timely intervention of Security Forces, and his opposition within Kashmir. Are not these two position completely in sync with what i am trying to high light? . Is it in the Interest of India to save Yasin Malik , and is it in the interest of Kashmiri Muslims to see him 'lynched' ? If both Kashmiri Muslims and Kashmiri Hindus are enemies of Yasin Malik then who is whose enemy right now. Why dont Kashmiri Pandits trust the present legitimate Govt. and return back to their 'Root in Kashmir'. Any hindrance to that lies in the fact that Pakistani activists are still active in the valley, right, that means Kashmiri muslims are not enemies of Kashmiri pandits but only Pakistani establishment, say ISI. And if we say that there is no difference between Kashmiri muslim and Pakistanis then we know it is pakistan and we are dealing with one enemy which has its army, its police, its intelligence, its cricket team and its nuclear weapons. who will answer these question? you have raised them, i agree, but why dont we see the Kashmir problem from different perspective. The Nationalistic one is too known, Pakistani one is in contrast with that. But what is new. I am not even talking about a new formation of a new country. But how to resolve the Kashmir dispute. How to negotiate LOC. How to dissolve territories in the world. Europe has done it, why dont we imitate their good things. The possibilities are endless. I dont mind if Yasin Malik is replaced by some one more sincere to the problem itself. There are chances, history might repeat itself, like Sheikh Mohd Abdullah he too might enter an accord with center, and later on give us a handsome son like Farooq Abullah and his son like Umar Abudullah to Kashmir who might rule as CM in Kashmir in future. Who knows what is relevant to future generations. So why not to cultivate a personal intellect to understand the problem, not only Kashmir but other problems too. The recent election as we know are all about Bijli, Panni and saddak. Some opportunities for parents to see their children read and write and earn a dignified life. Besides that, i am not too interested in Dynasty politics which is running the whole show for Indian Democracy all over the country. I see, Zardari and Sonia Gandhi strangely related to each other: Unknown Brother, Unknown Sister. You mentioned about my performance at Arpana Gallery, ' I am neither here, nor there'. thanks for that. We both agree that we have lost the ground. But i was not not only doing it about Kashmir, but about the disappearance of ' the feminine' from our sensibilities, and how to restore that, and how to realize the trace of the ' that sensibility' within ones own being, given the situation of a up turned box with garments scattered here and there. Please see the images , http://indersalim.livejournal.com/56394.html and i wish you write something on that too. >From here, i take the point to something entirely unrelated to Kashmir problem and yet there is a connection. A homeless family ( hindu ) was living in a 600 year old Muslim monument in Delhi. The family is fighting a legal case with Waqf Board regarding the ownership of the ancient ruins which was turned into a home with water and electricity. Right. Imagine the family was a migrant from Paskitan or a dalit who had no access to land and other resources. Right, he needs to the thrown out, as he was but not now, the way he was, it should not happened in first place, silly that it happened 60 years ago. Now on the other side of the city: Surpreme court today said that Cars are choking the city space. The industry of cars is stealing the public space. If we all are collectively hand in glove with stealing of the precious space what moral right we have to protest the occupation of a Heritage structure by a homelss family. We are blind to monumental tragedies that are happening around us. We are unwittingly ready to forgive all the criminals in the parliament, and give awards to manufacturers of fake medicine and what not. We can go to any extent if our son dream to follow Rajju of Satyam. I see a Raju in every corporate house. We are sadly part of the whole choas. How it happens, and as i said, i am also looking for answers. There is a Kashmiri Proverb, ' Sajde divan zale, handvend gatschan yeere' ( We are too occupied to capture the small things, like straws, while bigger things like water-melons keep on drifting ) Something similar is happening in Kashmir. Perhaps, we are too nationalistically thinking about it, when the Nation State itself is playing Games which are unknown to us. My guess is that rigidity of Nation State in dealing with issues like Kashmir pushes the entire population to frenzy, and embrace fundamentalism. You know how poets artists and intellectuals in Kashmir are sad about the present situation. They are unable to express freely, but who is responsible. Indian Sate policy never did a bit to restore the ancient legacy of Kashmir. Swat like situation is unfortunately gifted to us by Anglo-Amercian policies and their yes-men in our politics. Why Muslim Turkey is not giving birth of Swat like situations. Why were people in Swat were as gentle as people living in our kashmiri neighbourhood. Or, all people full of possibilities, are vulnerable to become Buddhists, Muslims, Communists, Hindus and even Nazis at the same time? Just by sporting a white collar and a red tie in a car does not make one a great human being. I am not saying, driving a car is ugly, but what i am trying to say here is that in absence of so called Muslim Terrorism the world is not a heavenly place to live in. I believe, the systems of ways of living on this planet earth are bound create VIOLENCE this way or that way. It is just a way of looking at what is more violent and what is less violent. Non-violence is perhaps deeper than a simple definition of not-killing the other. Violence on the other hand is affecting our lives from head to toe, This is truly a subjective discussion, but what is other way ? I am trying to understand, just like an average a student with love and regards inder salim On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 2:34 AM, Lalit Ambardar wrote: > Coming from the author of such a touching presentation like "na ches taty, > na yeti"( i am neither there nor here) this attempt to surrect now almost > abandoned 'original sinner' who founded the 'gun' culture in the valley at > the behest of his Pakistani masters is intriguing. > > Kashmiris, in the past two decades have gone through the hell - > the selective brutal targetting that led to the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri > Hindu Pandits in the valley -the plight of ordinary Kashmiri Muslims who > were coerced in to following the jihadi diktats- the destruction of the very > social fabric called Kashmiriyat etc. etc.........& who claimed credit for > having ferried weapons in to Kashmir to launch the jihad - the one you are > trying to glorify. > > Please,understand he does not represent the Kashmiri Muslims - last year but > for the timely intervention of the security forces his cohorts would have > been lynched by the followers of that part time moolvi/separatist Umar > Farooq when JKLF wanted to open an outlet in the territory of Umar Farooq > only a couple of kilometres away from the JKLF fiefdom . > > The misery of exodus is not missed in your post but the frustration canot > be justify glorification of a terrorist . > > It is difficult to guess the motive that has driven a well qualified artist > towards a terror commander at whose instigation & motivation hundreds of > docile Kashmiri Muslims, in the name of Islam,embraced death leaving behind > their mothers ,widows & orphans wailling for their loved ones. > > It could be akin to the infatuation of that Napales damsel for that serial > 'bikini killer' or it is all in the name of jihad......????.... > > > Will marital bliss to this killer of Kashmiriyat make him repent for his > deeds .......???..... > > Or is this a ploy to generate sympathy to escape the law.....????.......or > part of a new game.....???..... > > Regards all > LA > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > >> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:39:25 +0530 >> From: indersalim at gmail.com >> To: reader-list at sarai.net >> Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice >> >> Dear all >> Please click the web site by Musaall Mullick, Fiancée of Yasin Malik, >> the well known 'rebel' leader from Jammu and Kashmir. I think it is >> interesting. >> >> http://mushaalmullick.com/default.aspx >> >> I have pasted this link, precisely to see some meaning in Yasin >> Malik's choice. One of Musaall's water colour is titled 'Shame of the >> Humanity'. It shows a young girl child who deserves all the attention. >> >> Yasin Malik has lot of admirers and critic around the world; that >> applies even to Kashmir valley. Only time will tell us how seriously >> he grasped the Kashmir issue. >> >> Perhaps, this latest step speaks something about his priorities. >> Certainly, if SAS Geelani, his Hurriyat colleague, was young and >> going to be married, he would not have chosen a girl like Musaall as >> his Shareek-e-Hayyat ( better half ), but some one who would prefer to >> stay behind veil all the time. >> >> One of the water colour of Musaall depicts a woman with a Bindi ( >> predominately used by Hindu women ). What does that mean? It means, a >> Swat Valley like situation is certainly not Yasin Malik's cup of tea, >> but something which has a space for freedom, freedom of choice, >> particularly for women. >> >> Only time will tell us whether Yasin's Malik's Safar-e-Azadi will take >> Kashmir on the path which is meaningful for both Musaall-Malik jodi >> but People in general as well. There is ray of hope hidden in his >> choice to wed a painter living in London. Imran Khan, the >> cricketer-politician did almost similar to that, but failed to mix his >> choice with his political vision. Will Yasin too follow Imran, or will >> he let Musaall speak her mind freely ? >> >> Kashmir is seriously looking forward to see someone who speaks boldly >> about the situation of women in J&K. For example, no woman in J&K has >> any legal rights to retain a square inch of land in case she happens >> to get married to a non-J&K citizen. That is truly against Women. But >> slowly, I want Yasin to speak about this issue as well, even at the >> cost of popularity. No previous govt has dared to speak about this >> issue. The present Govt in J&K too will never support any idea like >> that. So, he can outwit them on this account. This is golden chance. >> Things like that can bring some real changes for a smooth and >> dignified return of Kashmiri Pandits to Valley. >> >> The other issue is environment, which is as serious as Women's issues. >> I have not gone though his agenda of Safray-Azadi but I wish issues >> like that are thoroughly woven in his Azadi text. He needs to speak >> about the need to protect the flora and fauna in J&K, besides a >> sincere call for a simple living. He needs to talk about the revival >> of folk arts and other forms of artistic expressions. >> >> This I am writing at a time when J&K is entering a special post free >> election phase for a great good governance. But that is that. We still >> have KASHMIR ISSUE, staring into our eyes as before. So, when every >> other intellectual in India is dismissive about Hurriyat who obviously >> gained nothing by giving Boycott call for Elections; I see them very >> much there, as significant as ever. >> >> Indeed people like me who were victims of 1990 approach to Kashmir >> Problem, but I believe, that some fresh approach is needed to >> understand Kashmir. It just happens that Kashmir is a Muslim Majority >> area, but Kashmir is not a Muslim problem, but a problem similar to >> Buddhist Tibet. There has to be some inner need to understand the >> troubles which a line called 'territory' inflicts on us. Why Kashmir >> was divided. What is LOC after all? >> >> I know, there will be lot of angry reaction to this small mail, but I >> hope some restraint, and cool minded approach. I am truly myself >> looking for some answers. I don't see a great politician around with >> some vision to bring a real change in our society, both at grass root >> level and beyond. >> >> Capitalistic and narrow minded politics has ruined our systems of >> living, and we are left with a situation like in Gaza where Israel is >> openly killing women and children. Europe and America are silent, >> which means they are not bothered by Palestine problem as they see it. >> So, Hamas is bad, even when they have people's support. >> >> So, imagine, if tomorrow Hurriyat decides to fight elections in J&K , >> and if they come to power and declare freedom on the very first day of >> office, what choice India has? Arrest them there, with head lines >> against Indian Democracy all over the world. So, is non-participation >> is a blessing in disguise for Indian Government ? >> >> Let us talk to Yasin, more meaningfully, than before. I am talking >> on my own behalf. >> >> With love and regards >> Inder salim >> >> >> -- >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > ________________________________ > Need more space to upload pictures? Get 25 GB online storage with Windows > Live SkyDrive! Try it! -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From c.anupam at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 12:16:04 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 12:16:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70902052234mf36357cid05177b9e859f7ad@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70902052234mf36357cid05177b9e859f7ad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00902052246x5cf6a516i73902ca7fcf6221a@mail.gmail.com> I am surprised that this petition in guise of being interesting and other such things made it to petitiononline. something wrong with those guys. it is ridiculous...i dont know why it is included in this mailing list which carries some of the best scholarly articles of our times. before moving into the details of what this petition seeks, i would say that the first premise that identity conflicts are basis of all conflicts is flawed and a bogus excuse. I think human beings are territorial more than anything else, be it identity..more land that's what they want. all conflicts are territorial. On 2/6/09, Pawan Durani wrote: > > Interesting petition , where people can vote can be found at this link > > http://www.petitiononline.com/mohajir/petition.html > > > To: The People of Karachi > > FORMATION OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR > > According to my proposed plan, the Southern port city of Pakistan called > Karachi shall become the Republic of Jinnahpur. This proposed formation of > Republic of Jinnahpur shall be in line with the anticipated plan towards > Pakistan's disintegration in the best interest of world's peace and > elimination of terrorism as envisioned by me in my earlier book titled > "DIVIDE PAKISTAN TO ELIMINATE TERRORISM". The name Republic of Jinnahpur is > given in view of the fact that Muhammad Ali Jinnah who was leader of Muslim > League back in 1940s in the United India and who had struggled for the > formation of Pakistan was born in Karachi on December 25, 1876. Muhammad > Ali > Jinnah's mausoleum is also in Karachi. > > > "All conflicts are identity conflicts" said John Paul Lederach, Professor > of > International Peacebuilding at The Joan B. Kroc Institute for International > Peace Studies, University of Notre Dame, Indiana, USA. This statement is, > in > my opinion, very conclusive to explain the very nature and significance of > all conflicts existing either at international level or regional level. All > such conflicts are basically 'identity conflicts'. > > > In recent years, scholars have taken an intense interest in questions > concerning identity. In comparative politics, "identity" plays a central > role in work on nationalism and ethnic conflict. In international > relations, > the idea of "state identity" is at the heart of constructivist critiques of > realism and analyses of state sovereignty. And in political theory, > questions of "identity" mark numerous arguments on gender, sexuality, > nationality, ethnicity, and culture in relation to liberalism and its > alternatives. Compared to recent scholarship in history and the humanities, > however, political scientists remain undecided when it comes to work on > identities. Despite this vastly increased and broad-ranging interest in > "identity," the concept itself remains a controversy. > > > A "failed state" is one that has a "shattered social and political > structure". In the words of former Secretary-General of the United Nations, > Boutros Boutros-Ghali: 'A feature of such conflicts is the collapse of > state > institutions, especially the police and judiciary, with resulting paralysis > of governance, a breakdown of law and order, and general banditry and > chaos. > Not only are the functions of government suspended, but its assets are > destroyed or looted and experienced officials are killed or flee the > country. This is rarely the case in inter-state wars. It means that > international intervention must extend beyond military and humanitarian > tasks and must include the promotion of international reconciliation and > the > re-establishment of effective government.'" > > > The Telegraph newspaper has reported recently in an editorial that Pakistan > is a failed state hosting both nuclear weapons and alQaeda's core > leadership; a unique combination which makes it the world's most dangerous > country. According to the paper, if threats to global security in terms of > terrorism, nuclear weapons and the spread of failed states are considered, > Pakistan stands at the nexus of all three phenomena. Whoever emerges from > the present political maelstrom to lead Pakistan will have to deal with the > country's unofficial status as al-Qaeda's heartland, the paper adds. > According to the Telegraph, the Pakistani state is so weak that armed > Islamist groups have a free rein over large areas. In Balochistan, an > ethnic > insurgency is underway. In Karachi, Pakistan's largest city and the > commercial capital, a ruthless political machine linked to organised crime, > is in charge, while Peshawar is seen as the hotbed of Islamist zealotry. > > > Therefore, Pakistan for all practical purposes is very close to > disintegration, and could most definitely be termed as a 'failed state'. > Noted philosopher and political activist Noam Chomsky also recently said > that Pakistan was a "paradigm example of a failed state" that had undergone > an "extremely dangerous form of radical Islamisation." The country was now > in danger of "collapsing" as it grappled with rebellion, militancy and > extremism that was "getting worse". Asked to draw a parallel between the > situation in Pakistan and the characteristics of a failed state highlighted > in his book "Failed States", Chomsky said, "I am afraid to say Pakistan is > the paradigm example of a failed state and has been for a long time. It has > had military rule, violence and oppression." Since the 1980s, the country > had undergone an extremely dangerous form of radical Islamisation, which > had > undermined a good part of the society, under the Zia-ul-Haq tyranny, he > said. "Now it is in danger of collapsing, there is a rebellion in > Balochistan, the (Federally Administered Tribal Areas) territories are out > of control and always have been and it is getting worse. > > In view of this accepted and recognized fact that Pakistan is going to > disintegrate any time from now, it is important that all nations living > under siege of presently undivided Pakistan's military dictatorship should > begin efforts for their respective liberation as envisioned by me in my > earlier book titled "DIVIDE PAKISTAN TO ELIMINATE TERRORISM". > > > Being a member of a family which had migrated from India in early 50s and > settled in Karachi, the port city of presently undivided Pakistan, it has > now become my duty to caution my friends and brothers back in Pakistan > particularly in Karachi to stop dreaming about a united Pakistan. To > implement my vision of dividing Pakistan and forming 6 new countries in > South Asia by disintegrating Pakistan, I would like to start this campaign > by proposing formation of REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR. This book shall highlight > reasons, causes and necessary elements for the formation of Republic of > Jinnahpur. This is my humble prayer that Karachi should soon become > Republic > of Jinnahpur. Ameen. > > > Formation of Republic of Jinnahpur is inevitable as soon as possible before > the Pakistan Army decides to launch yet another 1992-like genocide in > Karachi. I suggest to Mr. Altaf Hussain, leader of MQM which is the single > most influential political force of 'Mohajirs' (Migrants from India who had > settled in Pakistan at the time of breakup of United India in 1947) to > utilize these precious moments of his life by giving a call for formation > of > Republic of Jinnahpur by launching Jinnahpur Liberation Movement under the > banner of MQM. I hope the people of Karachi will loudly say "YES" to his > call. > > > What I am saying is very simple. Urdu-speaking people living in Karachi, > Hyderabad, Sukkur and other cities in the province of Sindh (Pakistan) > deserve their own country. An independent country for Urdu-speaking people > will solve their economic problems on one hand and provide an environment > of > freedom from the military dictatorship of Punjab province on the other. > Time > has now come that the cruel domination of Punjab must end by all means. The > Punjabi military has been ruling Pakistan ever since its inception. The > Urdu-speaking great leaders who had struggled for the freedom of Pakistan > were brutally murdered as part of the Punjabi conspiracy to hijack the > country. It has become inevitable now that Punjab should no longer be given > the right or power to continue its control on other smaller provinces of > Pakistan. At least Sindhis, Pathans and Balochis have some of their > regional > identities but the Urdu-speaking people have been compelled to become > Sindhis which is not possible. Urdu-speaking people have their own identity > and worth. It is not possible for Urdu-speaking people to become part of > Sindh. This attempt to make Urdu-speaking people part of Sindh has always > failed. This fact that Urdu-speaking people are independent in their > thinking and are able to represent themselves more effectively if they are > independent, should be accepted and recognized by the whole world. One > cannot force a French person to become German or a Czech citizen to become > Spanish or a Polish citizen to become Russian, similarly, one should also > not force an Urdu-speaking citizen to become Sindhi. Urdu language is much > different from Sindhi language. Not only language, there is glaring > difference in terms of culture, traditions, national character, vision, > approach, mindset and above all religious thinking. Indeed Sindhis are > brothers of Urdu-speaking people in their joint effort to get rid of > Punjab's political domination through achieving independence of Jinnahpur > and Sindhudesh. Urdu-speaking people cannot be forced to stay with Sindhis > forever and without their own right of freedom. Both Urdu-speaking people > and Sindhis deserve their respective identities through formation of > Jinnahpur and Sindhudesh. Both these nations are not ready to remain under > the umbrella of socalled Pakistan which is nothing but a political colony > of > Punjab. This colony must, therefore, disintegrate without any further > delay. > > > > If other separatist movements in the world are accepted and acknowledged > worldwide, movement for a free and independent state for Urdu-speaking > people currently living under dictatorial siege of Pakistan army should > also > be embraced by the United States of America and other Western nations. If > Kosovo can get independence in 21st century, why not Urdu-speaking people > of > Pakistan can get their own country called Republic of Jinnahpur. > Urdu-speaking people are also intelligent, educated, hardworking and > politically sound to fight for their independence in the 21st century. > Urdu-sepaking people should not be under estimated or considered as any > regional minority of Pakistan. Urdu-speaking people represent the most > educated class in the presently undivided Pakistan. When it come to > educational statistics of Pakistan in the field of education, the > contribution of Urdu-speaking people is upto 80\%. It must be noted that > Pakistan without Urdu-speaking people is nothing but a jungle of > illiterates > from Punjab and people in uniform who have hijacked this country for the > economic betterment of military dictators along with Punjabi bureacracy and > their families. > > > > Republic of Jinnahpur shall be an economic capital of South Asia which will > beat Dubai and Singapore on one hand and become a great place for foreign > investment on the other. The deserving people of Republic of Jinnahpur will > have job opportunities because of billions of dollars of foreign investment > which is at present hindred because of terrorist activities sponsored by > Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and other military sponsored > organizations. Such terrorist activities conducted by Pakistan's ISI and > other military sponsored militant organizations have rather blocked the > economic progress of Karachi which in turn have created hurdles for the > deserving educated Urdu-speaking class to invite foreign investment into > Karachi. It is only possible if Karachi gets its independence and formation > of Republic of Jinnahpur shall ensure that the deserving Urdu-speaking > people will get their right of progress and prosperity under the banner of > an independent country called Republic of Jinnahpur. > > Pakistan has been declared a failed state and therefore remaining part of > Pakistan means declaring ourselves as failed too. Urdu-speaking people of > Karachi cannot be classified as failed because it is due to them that > Pakistan has been surviving so far. Had there been no educated class making > contribution towards Pakistan's economic growth in the last 60 years, > Pakistan would not have reached to the level where it is now. However, due > to its political failure and its inability to remain as a sovereign state, > Pakistan is very close to its disintegration. In such a situation, it would > not be ideal for Urdu-speaking people to remain intact with Pakistan. > Rather, it is important that Urdu-speaking people should initiate their > fight for freedom while Pathans, Balochis and Sindhis should follow suit. > Republic of Jinnahpur can establish a precedence for freedom of all nations > currently suffering under the military siege of Punjab. > > When I say "Punjab", I do not intend to include those great people of > Punjab > who consider themselves as Ghulaman-e-Ahl-e-Bait (Servants of Holy Prophet > Muhammad SA, His beloved daughter Hazrat Bibi Fatima AS, His loyal > son-in-law Hazrat Ali AS, His beloved grand sons Hassan AS and Hussain AS) > and also the Seraiki nation who were wrongfully made part of Punjab > province > by the cruel Punjabi politicians in order to gain monetary gains by > manipulating the total population of Punjab province. Even after 60 years, > the Seraiki belt has been economically kept backward while poor Punjabi > servants of Ahl-e-Bait were deprived of their constitutional right of > serving in the Pakistan Army because of Wahabi-oriented policies made by > Asian Hitler called General Zia-ul-Haq back in 1979 which kept Shia and > true > Barelvi Sunni Muslims away from army jobs. The doors of Republic of > Jinnahpur shall remain open for such Punjabi brothers forever. > > As for the Pathans, Balochis and Sindhis, I would like to convey my message > to them that they should also get up from long sleep. The Punjabi military > killed several Pathan freedom fighters, Baloch freedom fighters and even > stabbed Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto who had brought back home 90,000 Punjabi > Prisoners of War. The brutality of Punjabi military can be evaluated on the > basis of their one single act that they stabbed and killed Zulfiqar Ali > Bhutto who was their rescuer from Indian prison. Not only this, the Punjabi > military recently killed Benazir Bhutto in order to wipe her off from the > political scene to keep the status quo alive. The murder of Bhuttos should > be sufficient for the Sindhis to wake up and get their own independence > from > Pakistan by forming Sindhudesh. Similarly, independent Pakhtoonistan and > Balochistan should also appear on the world map in the nearest future. > > The Urdu-speaking people are peace-loving people in true perspective. They > dont want any confrontation, however, they have their right to defend > themselves against the brutality of Punjabi army. The Urdu-speaking people > shall not become victim of yet another Operation Cleanup which was once > conducted by Punjabi army in 1992. Nawaz Sharif and his Punjabi political > team of hypocrites cannot succeed in their conspiracy to regain substantial > power again although they have just swallowed a bitter pill of shaking > hands > with Asif Zardari, a Sindhi man and spouse of Shaheed Benazir Bhutto. It is > important that Asif Zardari should immediately understand conspiracy and > hidden agenda of Nawaz Sharif and his political team of hypocrites who do > not possess any sympathy or love for any nation otherthan typical Wahabi > minded Punjabis. Nawaz Sharif is only waiting for the right time to > confront > Asif Zardari and as such Nawaz Sharif will definitely attempt to get into > Pakistan's National Assembly through a by-election and thereafter challenge > Asif Zardari and Bhuttos' Sindh-based political party called Peoples' > Party. > I cannot accept for any reason that Nawaz Sharif or his political team of > hypocrites would ever accept any Sindhi, Pathan, Baloch or Urdu-speaking > person to become Pakistan's prime minister. This is impossible for any > Punjabi hypocrite like Nawaz Sharif to extend his hand for cooperation or > affection towards any Sindhi, Pathan, Baloch or Urdu-speaking person in the > name of socalled political reconciliation. I ask all the politicians from > Pakhtoonistan, Balochistan, Seraiki belt and Sindhudesh not to believe > Nawaz > Sharif and his false promises of mutual cooperation or other similar sweet > slogans. A snake is always a snake. Nawaz Sharif cannot be trusted. > > I want all Urdu-speaking people living in Karachi, Hyderabad, Sukkur and > other parts of Sindh to become active members of JINNAHPUR LIBERATION > MOVEMENT. This movement shall be non-militant and non-violent in reality. > This movement shall be run by Urdu-speaking intellectuals, educationists, > workers, students, businessmen and politicians. This movement shall be > peaceful and totally committed for creating international awareness about > the great demand for an independent state called Republic of Jinnahpur by > the Urdu-speaking people living under military siege of Pakistan army. > > > As it has been established that Pakistan is a 100\% failed state and in > view > of the fact that living under military siege of Pakistan army in the > disguise of an artificial democracy which has brought the same old faces of > corrupt and cunning politicians from Punjab, time has come for the > urdu-speaking nation to get up and acquire their own independent country > called Republic of Jinnahpur. In order to achieve this task, there are many > hurdles. However, impossible is nothing. Either we fail to prepare or > prepare to fail. Urdu-speaking nation cannot afford to remain in such a > situation that makes them rather a third class citizen in Pakistan. They > are > treated as "untouchables" like in India. They have no province of their > own. > They have no representation in the National Assembly according to their > population simply because the powerful political parties from Punjab and > Sindh want to restrict their entry into mainstream politics. The illiterate > land owners representing the rural dynasty of Pakistan do not want educated > urdu-speaking people to outclass them. These illiterate landlords and > jagirdars want to keep their socalled superiority intact by depriving > people > of Pakistan from educational prosperity. They dont want urdu-speaking > nation > to spread their message of awareness among the masses and therefore these > land lords and jagirdars are biggest advocates of status-quo in order to > keep their control on the entire system of governance. Pakistan Army is the > military arm of such elements which desire their own supremacy all over > Pakistan. They dont want an educated urdu-speaking person to destroy their > plans of dictatorship whether military or civil. > > I, therefore, suggest that MQM being the single political force of > urdu-speaking nation of Pakistan should do the following immediately: > > 1. TO FORM JINNAHPUR LIBERATION MOVEMENT IMMEDIATELY WHICH SHOULD COMPRISE > OF URDU-SPEAKING YOUTH, INTELLECTUALS, ARTISTS, BUSINESSMEN, STUDENTS, > RELIGIOUS SCHOLARS, POLITICIANS, WRITERS & POETS, JOURNALISTS, MEMBERS OF > CIVIL SOCIETY, EDUCATIONISTS AND PEOPLE FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE IN ORDER TO > ACCELERATE MOVEMENT FOR ACQUIRING AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY CALLED REPUBLIC OF > JINNAHPUR; > > 2. TO ORGANIZE A MASSIVE PLEBISCITE AND TAKE VOTES FROM URDU-SPEAKING > NATION > TO CONSOLIDATE THEIR DESIRE FOR AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY CALLED REPUBLIC OF > JINNAHPUR; > > 3. TO COORDINATE WITH USA SENATORS, EU MEMBER STATES AND THE WORLD'S TOP > HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS IN ORDER TO MAKE THEM AWARE ABOUT THE DEMANDS OF > URDU-SPEAKING NATION LIVING IN PAKISTAN AND THEIR RIGHTS OF EXISTENCE WITH > A > SPECIFIC IDENTITY UNDER THE BANNER OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR; > > 4. TO APPROACH UNITED NATIONS TO SEND PEACE KEEPING TROOPS TO KARACHI > IMMEDIATELY TO AVOID YET ANOTHER "OPERATION CLEAN UP" BY PAKISTAN ARMY ON > THE PRETEXT OF ELIMINATION OF TERRORISM AND SABOTAGING THE MOVEMENT FOR > INDEPENDENCE; > > 5. TO FILE OFFICIAL APPLICATION WITH THE OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY GENERAL OF > THE UNITED NATIONS TO RECOGNIZE INDEPENDENCE OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR AND > REQUEST FOR MILITARY AS WELL AS DIPLOMATIC ASSISTANCE OF THE UNITED > NATIONS; > > > 6. TO APPROACH MUSLIM WORLD AND DISSEMINATE INFORMATION TO THEM ABOUT THE > POLITICAL RIGHTS OF URDU-SPEAKING NATION AND NEED FOR AN INDEPENDENT > COUNTRY > FOR THEM; > > 7. TO ORGANIZE CONFERENCES, PRESS BRIEFINGS, SEMINARS, WORKSHOPS, MEETINGS > AND FORA IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE WORLD IN ORDER TO CONVEY MESSAGE TO THE > WHOLE WORLD ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE AND NEED OF AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY FOR > URDU-SPEAKING NATION IN SOUTH ASIA FOR PEACE AND HARMONY IN THE REGION; > > 8. TO APPLY FOR MEMBERSHIP TO ALL REGIONAL AS WELL AS INTERNATIONAL > ASSOCIATIONS, GROUPS, TREATIES, CLUBS, UNIONS AND ORGANIZATIONS (TRADE OR > OTHERWISE) ON BEHALF OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR; > > 9. TO FORM A GOVERNMENT-IN-EXILE OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR WITH IMMEDIATE > EFFECT IN ANY EU COUNTRY OR USA OR INDIA; > > 10. TO APPROACH PARMANENT MEMBERS OF SUCURITY COUNCIL OF THE UNITED NATIONS > TO SEEK THEIR CONSENT AND APPROVAL FOR FORMATION OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR > BY > PRESENTING TO THEM ALL FACTS AND FIGURES IN SUPPORT OF THE IDEA OF AN > INDEPENDENT COUNTRY FOR URDU-SPEAKING NATION IN SOUTH ASIA; > > SAY "YES" TO FORMATION OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR > > SYED JAMALUDDIN > FRANCE > www.dividepakistan.blogspot.com > www.jinnahpur.blogspot.com > jinnahpur at gmail.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 12:52:43 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 12:52:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR In-Reply-To: <341380d00902052246x5cf6a516i73902ca7fcf6221a@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70902052234mf36357cid05177b9e859f7ad@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00902052246x5cf6a516i73902ca7fcf6221a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902052322n358ce7e6sdb1e5c87a92b4fce@mail.gmail.com> Dear Anupam Ji, Not that I oppose or endrose this , but i did find it interesting. It is as interesting as so called Kashmir conflict. What may be scholarly to you may not be for others. I do believe that there would be many who would find merit in division of Pakistan. Personally i believe that India should help Pakistan in not getting split like the communist superpower USSR . A friend of mine suggested few days back that to help Pakistan stay united , the best India can do is to attack it . That is his view . Warm Regards Pawan Durani On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 12:16 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > I am surprised that this petition in guise of being interesting and other > such things made it to petitiononline. something wrong with those guys. it > is ridiculous...i dont know why it is included in this mailing list which > carries some of the best scholarly articles of our times. before moving > into > the details of what this petition seeks, i would say that the first premise > that identity conflicts are basis of all conflicts is flawed and a bogus > excuse. I think human beings are territorial more than anything else, be it > identity..more land that's what they want. all conflicts are territorial. > > > On 2/6/09, Pawan Durani wrote: > > > > Interesting petition , where people can vote can be found at this link > > > > http://www.petitiononline.com/mohajir/petition.html > > > > > > To: The People of Karachi > > > > FORMATION OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR > > > > According to my proposed plan, the Southern port city of Pakistan called > > Karachi shall become the Republic of Jinnahpur. This proposed formation > of > > Republic of Jinnahpur shall be in line with the anticipated plan towards > > Pakistan's disintegration in the best interest of world's peace and > > elimination of terrorism as envisioned by me in my earlier book titled > > "DIVIDE PAKISTAN TO ELIMINATE TERRORISM". The name Republic of Jinnahpur > is > > given in view of the fact that Muhammad Ali Jinnah who was leader of > Muslim > > League back in 1940s in the United India and who had struggled for the > > formation of Pakistan was born in Karachi on December 25, 1876. Muhammad > > Ali > > Jinnah's mausoleum is also in Karachi. > > > > > > "All conflicts are identity conflicts" said John Paul Lederach, Professor > > of > > International Peacebuilding at The Joan B. Kroc Institute for > International > > Peace Studies, University of Notre Dame, Indiana, USA. This statement is, > > in > > my opinion, very conclusive to explain the very nature and significance > of > > all conflicts existing either at international level or regional level. > All > > such conflicts are basically 'identity conflicts'. > > > > > > In recent years, scholars have taken an intense interest in questions > > concerning identity. In comparative politics, "identity" plays a central > > role in work on nationalism and ethnic conflict. In international > > relations, > > the idea of "state identity" is at the heart of constructivist critiques > of > > realism and analyses of state sovereignty. And in political theory, > > questions of "identity" mark numerous arguments on gender, sexuality, > > nationality, ethnicity, and culture in relation to liberalism and its > > alternatives. Compared to recent scholarship in history and the > humanities, > > however, political scientists remain undecided when it comes to work on > > identities. Despite this vastly increased and broad-ranging interest in > > "identity," the concept itself remains a controversy. > > > > > > A "failed state" is one that has a "shattered social and political > > structure". In the words of former Secretary-General of the United > Nations, > > Boutros Boutros-Ghali: 'A feature of such conflicts is the collapse of > > state > > institutions, especially the police and judiciary, with resulting > paralysis > > of governance, a breakdown of law and order, and general banditry and > > chaos. > > Not only are the functions of government suspended, but its assets are > > destroyed or looted and experienced officials are killed or flee the > > country. This is rarely the case in inter-state wars. It means that > > international intervention must extend beyond military and humanitarian > > tasks and must include the promotion of international reconciliation and > > the > > re-establishment of effective government.'" > > > > > > The Telegraph newspaper has reported recently in an editorial that > Pakistan > > is a failed state hosting both nuclear weapons and alQaeda's core > > leadership; a unique combination which makes it the world's most > dangerous > > country. According to the paper, if threats to global security in terms > of > > terrorism, nuclear weapons and the spread of failed states are > considered, > > Pakistan stands at the nexus of all three phenomena. Whoever emerges from > > the present political maelstrom to lead Pakistan will have to deal with > the > > country's unofficial status as al-Qaeda's heartland, the paper adds. > > According to the Telegraph, the Pakistani state is so weak that armed > > Islamist groups have a free rein over large areas. In Balochistan, an > > ethnic > > insurgency is underway. In Karachi, Pakistan's largest city and the > > commercial capital, a ruthless political machine linked to organised > crime, > > is in charge, while Peshawar is seen as the hotbed of Islamist zealotry. > > > > > > Therefore, Pakistan for all practical purposes is very close to > > disintegration, and could most definitely be termed as a 'failed state'. > > Noted philosopher and political activist Noam Chomsky also recently said > > that Pakistan was a "paradigm example of a failed state" that had > undergone > > an "extremely dangerous form of radical Islamisation." The country was > now > > in danger of "collapsing" as it grappled with rebellion, militancy and > > extremism that was "getting worse". Asked to draw a parallel between the > > situation in Pakistan and the characteristics of a failed state > highlighted > > in his book "Failed States", Chomsky said, "I am afraid to say Pakistan > is > > the paradigm example of a failed state and has been for a long time. It > has > > had military rule, violence and oppression." Since the 1980s, the country > > had undergone an extremely dangerous form of radical Islamisation, which > > had > > undermined a good part of the society, under the Zia-ul-Haq tyranny, he > > said. "Now it is in danger of collapsing, there is a rebellion in > > Balochistan, the (Federally Administered Tribal Areas) territories are > out > > of control and always have been and it is getting worse. > > > > In view of this accepted and recognized fact that Pakistan is going to > > disintegrate any time from now, it is important that all nations living > > under siege of presently undivided Pakistan's military dictatorship > should > > begin efforts for their respective liberation as envisioned by me in my > > earlier book titled "DIVIDE PAKISTAN TO ELIMINATE TERRORISM". > > > > > > Being a member of a family which had migrated from India in early 50s and > > settled in Karachi, the port city of presently undivided Pakistan, it has > > now become my duty to caution my friends and brothers back in Pakistan > > particularly in Karachi to stop dreaming about a united Pakistan. To > > implement my vision of dividing Pakistan and forming 6 new countries in > > South Asia by disintegrating Pakistan, I would like to start this > campaign > > by proposing formation of REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR. This book shall > highlight > > reasons, causes and necessary elements for the formation of Republic of > > Jinnahpur. This is my humble prayer that Karachi should soon become > > Republic > > of Jinnahpur. Ameen. > > > > > > Formation of Republic of Jinnahpur is inevitable as soon as possible > before > > the Pakistan Army decides to launch yet another 1992-like genocide in > > Karachi. I suggest to Mr. Altaf Hussain, leader of MQM which is the > single > > most influential political force of 'Mohajirs' (Migrants from India who > had > > settled in Pakistan at the time of breakup of United India in 1947) to > > utilize these precious moments of his life by giving a call for formation > > of > > Republic of Jinnahpur by launching Jinnahpur Liberation Movement under > the > > banner of MQM. I hope the people of Karachi will loudly say "YES" to his > > call. > > > > > > What I am saying is very simple. Urdu-speaking people living in Karachi, > > Hyderabad, Sukkur and other cities in the province of Sindh (Pakistan) > > deserve their own country. An independent country for Urdu-speaking > people > > will solve their economic problems on one hand and provide an environment > > of > > freedom from the military dictatorship of Punjab province on the other. > > Time > > has now come that the cruel domination of Punjab must end by all means. > The > > Punjabi military has been ruling Pakistan ever since its inception. The > > Urdu-speaking great leaders who had struggled for the freedom of Pakistan > > were brutally murdered as part of the Punjabi conspiracy to hijack the > > country. It has become inevitable now that Punjab should no longer be > given > > the right or power to continue its control on other smaller provinces of > > Pakistan. At least Sindhis, Pathans and Balochis have some of their > > regional > > identities but the Urdu-speaking people have been compelled to become > > Sindhis which is not possible. Urdu-speaking people have their own > identity > > and worth. It is not possible for Urdu-speaking people to become part of > > Sindh. This attempt to make Urdu-speaking people part of Sindh has always > > failed. This fact that Urdu-speaking people are independent in their > > thinking and are able to represent themselves more effectively if they > are > > independent, should be accepted and recognized by the whole world. One > > cannot force a French person to become German or a Czech citizen to > become > > Spanish or a Polish citizen to become Russian, similarly, one should also > > not force an Urdu-speaking citizen to become Sindhi. Urdu language is > much > > different from Sindhi language. Not only language, there is glaring > > difference in terms of culture, traditions, national character, vision, > > approach, mindset and above all religious thinking. Indeed Sindhis are > > brothers of Urdu-speaking people in their joint effort to get rid of > > Punjab's political domination through achieving independence of Jinnahpur > > and Sindhudesh. Urdu-speaking people cannot be forced to stay with > Sindhis > > forever and without their own right of freedom. Both Urdu-speaking people > > and Sindhis deserve their respective identities through formation of > > Jinnahpur and Sindhudesh. Both these nations are not ready to remain > under > > the umbrella of socalled Pakistan which is nothing but a political colony > > of > > Punjab. This colony must, therefore, disintegrate without any further > > delay. > > > > > > > > If other separatist movements in the world are accepted and acknowledged > > worldwide, movement for a free and independent state for Urdu-speaking > > people currently living under dictatorial siege of Pakistan army should > > also > > be embraced by the United States of America and other Western nations. If > > Kosovo can get independence in 21st century, why not Urdu-speaking people > > of > > Pakistan can get their own country called Republic of Jinnahpur. > > Urdu-speaking people are also intelligent, educated, hardworking and > > politically sound to fight for their independence in the 21st century. > > Urdu-sepaking people should not be under estimated or considered as any > > regional minority of Pakistan. Urdu-speaking people represent the most > > educated class in the presently undivided Pakistan. When it come to > > educational statistics of Pakistan in the field of education, the > > contribution of Urdu-speaking people is upto 80\%. It must be noted that > > Pakistan without Urdu-speaking people is nothing but a jungle of > > illiterates > > from Punjab and people in uniform who have hijacked this country for the > > economic betterment of military dictators along with Punjabi bureacracy > and > > their families. > > > > > > > > Republic of Jinnahpur shall be an economic capital of South Asia which > will > > beat Dubai and Singapore on one hand and become a great place for foreign > > investment on the other. The deserving people of Republic of Jinnahpur > will > > have job opportunities because of billions of dollars of foreign > investment > > which is at present hindred because of terrorist activities sponsored by > > Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and other military sponsored > > organizations. Such terrorist activities conducted by Pakistan's ISI and > > other military sponsored militant organizations have rather blocked the > > economic progress of Karachi which in turn have created hurdles for the > > deserving educated Urdu-speaking class to invite foreign investment into > > Karachi. It is only possible if Karachi gets its independence and > formation > > of Republic of Jinnahpur shall ensure that the deserving Urdu-speaking > > people will get their right of progress and prosperity under the banner > of > > an independent country called Republic of Jinnahpur. > > > > Pakistan has been declared a failed state and therefore remaining part of > > Pakistan means declaring ourselves as failed too. Urdu-speaking people of > > Karachi cannot be classified as failed because it is due to them that > > Pakistan has been surviving so far. Had there been no educated class > making > > contribution towards Pakistan's economic growth in the last 60 years, > > Pakistan would not have reached to the level where it is now. However, > due > > to its political failure and its inability to remain as a sovereign > state, > > Pakistan is very close to its disintegration. In such a situation, it > would > > not be ideal for Urdu-speaking people to remain intact with Pakistan. > > Rather, it is important that Urdu-speaking people should initiate their > > fight for freedom while Pathans, Balochis and Sindhis should follow suit. > > Republic of Jinnahpur can establish a precedence for freedom of all > nations > > currently suffering under the military siege of Punjab. > > > > When I say "Punjab", I do not intend to include those great people of > > Punjab > > who consider themselves as Ghulaman-e-Ahl-e-Bait (Servants of Holy > Prophet > > Muhammad SA, His beloved daughter Hazrat Bibi Fatima AS, His loyal > > son-in-law Hazrat Ali AS, His beloved grand sons Hassan AS and Hussain > AS) > > and also the Seraiki nation who were wrongfully made part of Punjab > > province > > by the cruel Punjabi politicians in order to gain monetary gains by > > manipulating the total population of Punjab province. Even after 60 > years, > > the Seraiki belt has been economically kept backward while poor Punjabi > > servants of Ahl-e-Bait were deprived of their constitutional right of > > serving in the Pakistan Army because of Wahabi-oriented policies made by > > Asian Hitler called General Zia-ul-Haq back in 1979 which kept Shia and > > true > > Barelvi Sunni Muslims away from army jobs. The doors of Republic of > > Jinnahpur shall remain open for such Punjabi brothers forever. > > > > As for the Pathans, Balochis and Sindhis, I would like to convey my > message > > to them that they should also get up from long sleep. The Punjabi > military > > killed several Pathan freedom fighters, Baloch freedom fighters and even > > stabbed Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto who had brought back home 90,000 Punjabi > > Prisoners of War. The brutality of Punjabi military can be evaluated on > the > > basis of their one single act that they stabbed and killed Zulfiqar Ali > > Bhutto who was their rescuer from Indian prison. Not only this, the > Punjabi > > military recently killed Benazir Bhutto in order to wipe her off from the > > political scene to keep the status quo alive. The murder of Bhuttos > should > > be sufficient for the Sindhis to wake up and get their own independence > > from > > Pakistan by forming Sindhudesh. Similarly, independent Pakhtoonistan and > > Balochistan should also appear on the world map in the nearest future. > > > > The Urdu-speaking people are peace-loving people in true perspective. > They > > dont want any confrontation, however, they have their right to defend > > themselves against the brutality of Punjabi army. The Urdu-speaking > people > > shall not become victim of yet another Operation Cleanup which was once > > conducted by Punjabi army in 1992. Nawaz Sharif and his Punjabi political > > team of hypocrites cannot succeed in their conspiracy to regain > substantial > > power again although they have just swallowed a bitter pill of shaking > > hands > > with Asif Zardari, a Sindhi man and spouse of Shaheed Benazir Bhutto. It > is > > important that Asif Zardari should immediately understand conspiracy and > > hidden agenda of Nawaz Sharif and his political team of hypocrites who do > > not possess any sympathy or love for any nation otherthan typical Wahabi > > minded Punjabis. Nawaz Sharif is only waiting for the right time to > > confront > > Asif Zardari and as such Nawaz Sharif will definitely attempt to get into > > Pakistan's National Assembly through a by-election and thereafter > challenge > > Asif Zardari and Bhuttos' Sindh-based political party called Peoples' > > Party. > > I cannot accept for any reason that Nawaz Sharif or his political team of > > hypocrites would ever accept any Sindhi, Pathan, Baloch or Urdu-speaking > > person to become Pakistan's prime minister. This is impossible for any > > Punjabi hypocrite like Nawaz Sharif to extend his hand for cooperation or > > affection towards any Sindhi, Pathan, Baloch or Urdu-speaking person in > the > > name of socalled political reconciliation. I ask all the politicians from > > Pakhtoonistan, Balochistan, Seraiki belt and Sindhudesh not to believe > > Nawaz > > Sharif and his false promises of mutual cooperation or other similar > sweet > > slogans. A snake is always a snake. Nawaz Sharif cannot be trusted. > > > > I want all Urdu-speaking people living in Karachi, Hyderabad, Sukkur and > > other parts of Sindh to become active members of JINNAHPUR LIBERATION > > MOVEMENT. This movement shall be non-militant and non-violent in reality. > > This movement shall be run by Urdu-speaking intellectuals, educationists, > > workers, students, businessmen and politicians. This movement shall be > > peaceful and totally committed for creating international awareness about > > the great demand for an independent state called Republic of Jinnahpur by > > the Urdu-speaking people living under military siege of Pakistan army. > > > > > > As it has been established that Pakistan is a 100\% failed state and in > > view > > of the fact that living under military siege of Pakistan army in the > > disguise of an artificial democracy which has brought the same old faces > of > > corrupt and cunning politicians from Punjab, time has come for the > > urdu-speaking nation to get up and acquire their own independent country > > called Republic of Jinnahpur. In order to achieve this task, there are > many > > hurdles. However, impossible is nothing. Either we fail to prepare or > > prepare to fail. Urdu-speaking nation cannot afford to remain in such a > > situation that makes them rather a third class citizen in Pakistan. They > > are > > treated as "untouchables" like in India. They have no province of their > > own. > > They have no representation in the National Assembly according to their > > population simply because the powerful political parties from Punjab and > > Sindh want to restrict their entry into mainstream politics. The > illiterate > > land owners representing the rural dynasty of Pakistan do not want > educated > > urdu-speaking people to outclass them. These illiterate landlords and > > jagirdars want to keep their socalled superiority intact by depriving > > people > > of Pakistan from educational prosperity. They dont want urdu-speaking > > nation > > to spread their message of awareness among the masses and therefore these > > land lords and jagirdars are biggest advocates of status-quo in order to > > keep their control on the entire system of governance. Pakistan Army is > the > > military arm of such elements which desire their own supremacy all over > > Pakistan. They dont want an educated urdu-speaking person to destroy > their > > plans of dictatorship whether military or civil. > > > > I, therefore, suggest that MQM being the single political force of > > urdu-speaking nation of Pakistan should do the following immediately: > > > > 1. TO FORM JINNAHPUR LIBERATION MOVEMENT IMMEDIATELY WHICH SHOULD > COMPRISE > > OF URDU-SPEAKING YOUTH, INTELLECTUALS, ARTISTS, BUSINESSMEN, STUDENTS, > > RELIGIOUS SCHOLARS, POLITICIANS, WRITERS & POETS, JOURNALISTS, MEMBERS OF > > CIVIL SOCIETY, EDUCATIONISTS AND PEOPLE FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE IN ORDER > TO > > ACCELERATE MOVEMENT FOR ACQUIRING AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY CALLED REPUBLIC > OF > > JINNAHPUR; > > > > 2. TO ORGANIZE A MASSIVE PLEBISCITE AND TAKE VOTES FROM URDU-SPEAKING > > NATION > > TO CONSOLIDATE THEIR DESIRE FOR AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY CALLED REPUBLIC OF > > JINNAHPUR; > > > > 3. TO COORDINATE WITH USA SENATORS, EU MEMBER STATES AND THE WORLD'S TOP > > HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS IN ORDER TO MAKE THEM AWARE ABOUT THE DEMANDS > OF > > URDU-SPEAKING NATION LIVING IN PAKISTAN AND THEIR RIGHTS OF EXISTENCE > WITH > > A > > SPECIFIC IDENTITY UNDER THE BANNER OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR; > > > > 4. TO APPROACH UNITED NATIONS TO SEND PEACE KEEPING TROOPS TO KARACHI > > IMMEDIATELY TO AVOID YET ANOTHER "OPERATION CLEAN UP" BY PAKISTAN ARMY ON > > THE PRETEXT OF ELIMINATION OF TERRORISM AND SABOTAGING THE MOVEMENT FOR > > INDEPENDENCE; > > > > 5. TO FILE OFFICIAL APPLICATION WITH THE OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY GENERAL > OF > > THE UNITED NATIONS TO RECOGNIZE INDEPENDENCE OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR AND > > REQUEST FOR MILITARY AS WELL AS DIPLOMATIC ASSISTANCE OF THE UNITED > > NATIONS; > > > > > > 6. TO APPROACH MUSLIM WORLD AND DISSEMINATE INFORMATION TO THEM ABOUT THE > > POLITICAL RIGHTS OF URDU-SPEAKING NATION AND NEED FOR AN INDEPENDENT > > COUNTRY > > FOR THEM; > > > > 7. TO ORGANIZE CONFERENCES, PRESS BRIEFINGS, SEMINARS, WORKSHOPS, > MEETINGS > > AND FORA IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE WORLD IN ORDER TO CONVEY MESSAGE TO > THE > > WHOLE WORLD ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE AND NEED OF AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY FOR > > URDU-SPEAKING NATION IN SOUTH ASIA FOR PEACE AND HARMONY IN THE REGION; > > > > 8. TO APPLY FOR MEMBERSHIP TO ALL REGIONAL AS WELL AS INTERNATIONAL > > ASSOCIATIONS, GROUPS, TREATIES, CLUBS, UNIONS AND ORGANIZATIONS (TRADE OR > > OTHERWISE) ON BEHALF OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR; > > > > 9. TO FORM A GOVERNMENT-IN-EXILE OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR WITH IMMEDIATE > > EFFECT IN ANY EU COUNTRY OR USA OR INDIA; > > > > 10. TO APPROACH PARMANENT MEMBERS OF SUCURITY COUNCIL OF THE UNITED > NATIONS > > TO SEEK THEIR CONSENT AND APPROVAL FOR FORMATION OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR > > BY > > PRESENTING TO THEM ALL FACTS AND FIGURES IN SUPPORT OF THE IDEA OF AN > > INDEPENDENT COUNTRY FOR URDU-SPEAKING NATION IN SOUTH ASIA; > > > > SAY "YES" TO FORMATION OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR > > > > SYED JAMALUDDIN > > FRANCE > > www.dividepakistan.blogspot.com > > www.jinnahpur.blogspot.com > > jinnahpur at gmail.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 13:09:38 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 13:09:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70902052322n358ce7e6sdb1e5c87a92b4fce@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70902052234mf36357cid05177b9e859f7ad@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00902052246x5cf6a516i73902ca7fcf6221a@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70902052322n358ce7e6sdb1e5c87a92b4fce@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00902052339g194a45c0rc420c78492ed69e0@mail.gmail.com> Dear Pawan ji, this so called identity conflict india should be the first nation that may get divided, given the fact that there are so many diverse cultures an identities here. regards Ac On 2/6/09, Pawan Durani wrote: > > Dear Anupam Ji, > > Not that I oppose or endrose this , but i did find it interesting. It is as > interesting as so called Kashmir conflict. > > What may be scholarly to you may not be for others. I do believe that there > would be many who would find merit in division of Pakistan. > > Personally i believe that India should help Pakistan in not getting split > like the communist superpower USSR . > > A friend of mine suggested few days back that to help Pakistan stay united > , the best India can do is to attack it . That is his view . > > Warm Regards > > Pawan Durani > > On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 12:16 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > >> I am surprised that this petition in guise of being interesting and other >> such things made it to petitiononline. something wrong with those guys. it >> is ridiculous...i dont know why it is included in this mailing list which >> carries some of the best scholarly articles of our times. before moving >> into >> the details of what this petition seeks, i would say that the first >> premise >> that identity conflicts are basis of all conflicts is flawed and a bogus >> excuse. I think human beings are territorial more than anything else, be >> it >> identity..more land that's what they want. all conflicts are territorial. >> >> >> On 2/6/09, Pawan Durani wrote: >> > >> > Interesting petition , where people can vote can be found at this link >> > >> > http://www.petitiononline.com/mohajir/petition.html >> > >> > >> > To: The People of Karachi >> > >> > FORMATION OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR >> > >> > According to my proposed plan, the Southern port city of Pakistan called >> > Karachi shall become the Republic of Jinnahpur. This proposed formation >> of >> > Republic of Jinnahpur shall be in line with the anticipated plan towards >> > Pakistan's disintegration in the best interest of world's peace and >> > elimination of terrorism as envisioned by me in my earlier book titled >> > "DIVIDE PAKISTAN TO ELIMINATE TERRORISM". The name Republic of Jinnahpur >> is >> > given in view of the fact that Muhammad Ali Jinnah who was leader of >> Muslim >> > League back in 1940s in the United India and who had struggled for the >> > formation of Pakistan was born in Karachi on December 25, 1876. Muhammad >> > Ali >> > Jinnah's mausoleum is also in Karachi. >> > >> > >> > "All conflicts are identity conflicts" said John Paul Lederach, >> Professor >> > of >> > International Peacebuilding at The Joan B. Kroc Institute for >> International >> > Peace Studies, University of Notre Dame, Indiana, USA. This statement >> is, >> > in >> > my opinion, very conclusive to explain the very nature and significance >> of >> > all conflicts existing either at international level or regional level. >> All >> > such conflicts are basically 'identity conflicts'. >> > >> > >> > In recent years, scholars have taken an intense interest in questions >> > concerning identity. In comparative politics, "identity" plays a central >> > role in work on nationalism and ethnic conflict. In international >> > relations, >> > the idea of "state identity" is at the heart of constructivist critiques >> of >> > realism and analyses of state sovereignty. And in political theory, >> > questions of "identity" mark numerous arguments on gender, sexuality, >> > nationality, ethnicity, and culture in relation to liberalism and its >> > alternatives. Compared to recent scholarship in history and the >> humanities, >> > however, political scientists remain undecided when it comes to work on >> > identities. Despite this vastly increased and broad-ranging interest in >> > "identity," the concept itself remains a controversy. >> > >> > >> > A "failed state" is one that has a "shattered social and political >> > structure". In the words of former Secretary-General of the United >> Nations, >> > Boutros Boutros-Ghali: 'A feature of such conflicts is the collapse of >> > state >> > institutions, especially the police and judiciary, with resulting >> paralysis >> > of governance, a breakdown of law and order, and general banditry and >> > chaos. >> > Not only are the functions of government suspended, but its assets are >> > destroyed or looted and experienced officials are killed or flee the >> > country. This is rarely the case in inter-state wars. It means that >> > international intervention must extend beyond military and humanitarian >> > tasks and must include the promotion of international reconciliation and >> > the >> > re-establishment of effective government.'" >> > >> > >> > The Telegraph newspaper has reported recently in an editorial that >> Pakistan >> > is a failed state hosting both nuclear weapons and alQaeda's core >> > leadership; a unique combination which makes it the world's most >> dangerous >> > country. According to the paper, if threats to global security in terms >> of >> > terrorism, nuclear weapons and the spread of failed states are >> considered, >> > Pakistan stands at the nexus of all three phenomena. Whoever emerges >> from >> > the present political maelstrom to lead Pakistan will have to deal with >> the >> > country's unofficial status as al-Qaeda's heartland, the paper adds. >> > According to the Telegraph, the Pakistani state is so weak that armed >> > Islamist groups have a free rein over large areas. In Balochistan, an >> > ethnic >> > insurgency is underway. In Karachi, Pakistan's largest city and the >> > commercial capital, a ruthless political machine linked to organised >> crime, >> > is in charge, while Peshawar is seen as the hotbed of Islamist zealotry. >> > >> > >> > Therefore, Pakistan for all practical purposes is very close to >> > disintegration, and could most definitely be termed as a 'failed state'. >> > Noted philosopher and political activist Noam Chomsky also recently said >> > that Pakistan was a "paradigm example of a failed state" that had >> undergone >> > an "extremely dangerous form of radical Islamisation." The country was >> now >> > in danger of "collapsing" as it grappled with rebellion, militancy and >> > extremism that was "getting worse". Asked to draw a parallel between the >> > situation in Pakistan and the characteristics of a failed state >> highlighted >> > in his book "Failed States", Chomsky said, "I am afraid to say Pakistan >> is >> > the paradigm example of a failed state and has been for a long time. It >> has >> > had military rule, violence and oppression." Since the 1980s, the >> country >> > had undergone an extremely dangerous form of radical Islamisation, which >> > had >> > undermined a good part of the society, under the Zia-ul-Haq tyranny, he >> > said. "Now it is in danger of collapsing, there is a rebellion in >> > Balochistan, the (Federally Administered Tribal Areas) territories are >> out >> > of control and always have been and it is getting worse. >> > >> > In view of this accepted and recognized fact that Pakistan is going to >> > disintegrate any time from now, it is important that all nations living >> > under siege of presently undivided Pakistan's military dictatorship >> should >> > begin efforts for their respective liberation as envisioned by me in my >> > earlier book titled "DIVIDE PAKISTAN TO ELIMINATE TERRORISM". >> > >> > >> > Being a member of a family which had migrated from India in early 50s >> and >> > settled in Karachi, the port city of presently undivided Pakistan, it >> has >> > now become my duty to caution my friends and brothers back in Pakistan >> > particularly in Karachi to stop dreaming about a united Pakistan. To >> > implement my vision of dividing Pakistan and forming 6 new countries in >> > South Asia by disintegrating Pakistan, I would like to start this >> campaign >> > by proposing formation of REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR. This book shall >> highlight >> > reasons, causes and necessary elements for the formation of Republic of >> > Jinnahpur. This is my humble prayer that Karachi should soon become >> > Republic >> > of Jinnahpur. Ameen. >> > >> > >> > Formation of Republic of Jinnahpur is inevitable as soon as possible >> before >> > the Pakistan Army decides to launch yet another 1992-like genocide in >> > Karachi. I suggest to Mr. Altaf Hussain, leader of MQM which is the >> single >> > most influential political force of 'Mohajirs' (Migrants from India who >> had >> > settled in Pakistan at the time of breakup of United India in 1947) to >> > utilize these precious moments of his life by giving a call for >> formation >> > of >> > Republic of Jinnahpur by launching Jinnahpur Liberation Movement under >> the >> > banner of MQM. I hope the people of Karachi will loudly say "YES" to his >> > call. >> > >> > >> > What I am saying is very simple. Urdu-speaking people living in Karachi, >> > Hyderabad, Sukkur and other cities in the province of Sindh (Pakistan) >> > deserve their own country. An independent country for Urdu-speaking >> people >> > will solve their economic problems on one hand and provide an >> environment >> > of >> > freedom from the military dictatorship of Punjab province on the other. >> > Time >> > has now come that the cruel domination of Punjab must end by all means. >> The >> > Punjabi military has been ruling Pakistan ever since its inception. The >> > Urdu-speaking great leaders who had struggled for the freedom of >> Pakistan >> > were brutally murdered as part of the Punjabi conspiracy to hijack the >> > country. It has become inevitable now that Punjab should no longer be >> given >> > the right or power to continue its control on other smaller provinces of >> > Pakistan. At least Sindhis, Pathans and Balochis have some of their >> > regional >> > identities but the Urdu-speaking people have been compelled to become >> > Sindhis which is not possible. Urdu-speaking people have their own >> identity >> > and worth. It is not possible for Urdu-speaking people to become part of >> > Sindh. This attempt to make Urdu-speaking people part of Sindh has >> always >> > failed. This fact that Urdu-speaking people are independent in their >> > thinking and are able to represent themselves more effectively if they >> are >> > independent, should be accepted and recognized by the whole world. One >> > cannot force a French person to become German or a Czech citizen to >> become >> > Spanish or a Polish citizen to become Russian, similarly, one should >> also >> > not force an Urdu-speaking citizen to become Sindhi. Urdu language is >> much >> > different from Sindhi language. Not only language, there is glaring >> > difference in terms of culture, traditions, national character, vision, >> > approach, mindset and above all religious thinking. Indeed Sindhis are >> > brothers of Urdu-speaking people in their joint effort to get rid of >> > Punjab's political domination through achieving independence of >> Jinnahpur >> > and Sindhudesh. Urdu-speaking people cannot be forced to stay with >> Sindhis >> > forever and without their own right of freedom. Both Urdu-speaking >> people >> > and Sindhis deserve their respective identities through formation of >> > Jinnahpur and Sindhudesh. Both these nations are not ready to remain >> under >> > the umbrella of socalled Pakistan which is nothing but a political >> colony >> > of >> > Punjab. This colony must, therefore, disintegrate without any further >> > delay. >> > >> > >> > >> > If other separatist movements in the world are accepted and acknowledged >> > worldwide, movement for a free and independent state for Urdu-speaking >> > people currently living under dictatorial siege of Pakistan army should >> > also >> > be embraced by the United States of America and other Western nations. >> If >> > Kosovo can get independence in 21st century, why not Urdu-speaking >> people >> > of >> > Pakistan can get their own country called Republic of Jinnahpur. >> > Urdu-speaking people are also intelligent, educated, hardworking and >> > politically sound to fight for their independence in the 21st century. >> > Urdu-sepaking people should not be under estimated or considered as any >> > regional minority of Pakistan. Urdu-speaking people represent the most >> > educated class in the presently undivided Pakistan. When it come to >> > educational statistics of Pakistan in the field of education, the >> > contribution of Urdu-speaking people is upto 80\%. It must be noted that >> > Pakistan without Urdu-speaking people is nothing but a jungle of >> > illiterates >> > from Punjab and people in uniform who have hijacked this country for the >> > economic betterment of military dictators along with Punjabi bureacracy >> and >> > their families. >> > >> > >> > >> > Republic of Jinnahpur shall be an economic capital of South Asia which >> will >> > beat Dubai and Singapore on one hand and become a great place for >> foreign >> > investment on the other. The deserving people of Republic of Jinnahpur >> will >> > have job opportunities because of billions of dollars of foreign >> investment >> > which is at present hindred because of terrorist activities sponsored by >> > Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and other military sponsored >> > organizations. Such terrorist activities conducted by Pakistan's ISI and >> > other military sponsored militant organizations have rather blocked the >> > economic progress of Karachi which in turn have created hurdles for the >> > deserving educated Urdu-speaking class to invite foreign investment into >> > Karachi. It is only possible if Karachi gets its independence and >> formation >> > of Republic of Jinnahpur shall ensure that the deserving Urdu-speaking >> > people will get their right of progress and prosperity under the banner >> of >> > an independent country called Republic of Jinnahpur. >> > >> > Pakistan has been declared a failed state and therefore remaining part >> of >> > Pakistan means declaring ourselves as failed too. Urdu-speaking people >> of >> > Karachi cannot be classified as failed because it is due to them that >> > Pakistan has been surviving so far. Had there been no educated class >> making >> > contribution towards Pakistan's economic growth in the last 60 years, >> > Pakistan would not have reached to the level where it is now. However, >> due >> > to its political failure and its inability to remain as a sovereign >> state, >> > Pakistan is very close to its disintegration. In such a situation, it >> would >> > not be ideal for Urdu-speaking people to remain intact with Pakistan. >> > Rather, it is important that Urdu-speaking people should initiate their >> > fight for freedom while Pathans, Balochis and Sindhis should follow >> suit. >> > Republic of Jinnahpur can establish a precedence for freedom of all >> nations >> > currently suffering under the military siege of Punjab. >> > >> > When I say "Punjab", I do not intend to include those great people of >> > Punjab >> > who consider themselves as Ghulaman-e-Ahl-e-Bait (Servants of Holy >> Prophet >> > Muhammad SA, His beloved daughter Hazrat Bibi Fatima AS, His loyal >> > son-in-law Hazrat Ali AS, His beloved grand sons Hassan AS and Hussain >> AS) >> > and also the Seraiki nation who were wrongfully made part of Punjab >> > province >> > by the cruel Punjabi politicians in order to gain monetary gains by >> > manipulating the total population of Punjab province. Even after 60 >> years, >> > the Seraiki belt has been economically kept backward while poor Punjabi >> > servants of Ahl-e-Bait were deprived of their constitutional right of >> > serving in the Pakistan Army because of Wahabi-oriented policies made by >> > Asian Hitler called General Zia-ul-Haq back in 1979 which kept Shia and >> > true >> > Barelvi Sunni Muslims away from army jobs. The doors of Republic of >> > Jinnahpur shall remain open for such Punjabi brothers forever. >> > >> > As for the Pathans, Balochis and Sindhis, I would like to convey my >> message >> > to them that they should also get up from long sleep. The Punjabi >> military >> > killed several Pathan freedom fighters, Baloch freedom fighters and even >> > stabbed Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto who had brought back home 90,000 Punjabi >> > Prisoners of War. The brutality of Punjabi military can be evaluated on >> the >> > basis of their one single act that they stabbed and killed Zulfiqar Ali >> > Bhutto who was their rescuer from Indian prison. Not only this, the >> Punjabi >> > military recently killed Benazir Bhutto in order to wipe her off from >> the >> > political scene to keep the status quo alive. The murder of Bhuttos >> should >> > be sufficient for the Sindhis to wake up and get their own independence >> > from >> > Pakistan by forming Sindhudesh. Similarly, independent Pakhtoonistan and >> > Balochistan should also appear on the world map in the nearest future. >> > >> > The Urdu-speaking people are peace-loving people in true perspective. >> They >> > dont want any confrontation, however, they have their right to defend >> > themselves against the brutality of Punjabi army. The Urdu-speaking >> people >> > shall not become victim of yet another Operation Cleanup which was once >> > conducted by Punjabi army in 1992. Nawaz Sharif and his Punjabi >> political >> > team of hypocrites cannot succeed in their conspiracy to regain >> substantial >> > power again although they have just swallowed a bitter pill of shaking >> > hands >> > with Asif Zardari, a Sindhi man and spouse of Shaheed Benazir Bhutto. It >> is >> > important that Asif Zardari should immediately understand conspiracy and >> > hidden agenda of Nawaz Sharif and his political team of hypocrites who >> do >> > not possess any sympathy or love for any nation otherthan typical Wahabi >> > minded Punjabis. Nawaz Sharif is only waiting for the right time to >> > confront >> > Asif Zardari and as such Nawaz Sharif will definitely attempt to get >> into >> > Pakistan's National Assembly through a by-election and thereafter >> challenge >> > Asif Zardari and Bhuttos' Sindh-based political party called Peoples' >> > Party. >> > I cannot accept for any reason that Nawaz Sharif or his political team >> of >> > hypocrites would ever accept any Sindhi, Pathan, Baloch or Urdu-speaking >> > person to become Pakistan's prime minister. This is impossible for any >> > Punjabi hypocrite like Nawaz Sharif to extend his hand for cooperation >> or >> > affection towards any Sindhi, Pathan, Baloch or Urdu-speaking person in >> the >> > name of socalled political reconciliation. I ask all the politicians >> from >> > Pakhtoonistan, Balochistan, Seraiki belt and Sindhudesh not to believe >> > Nawaz >> > Sharif and his false promises of mutual cooperation or other similar >> sweet >> > slogans. A snake is always a snake. Nawaz Sharif cannot be trusted. >> > >> > I want all Urdu-speaking people living in Karachi, Hyderabad, Sukkur and >> > other parts of Sindh to become active members of JINNAHPUR LIBERATION >> > MOVEMENT. This movement shall be non-militant and non-violent in >> reality. >> > This movement shall be run by Urdu-speaking intellectuals, >> educationists, >> > workers, students, businessmen and politicians. This movement shall be >> > peaceful and totally committed for creating international awareness >> about >> > the great demand for an independent state called Republic of Jinnahpur >> by >> > the Urdu-speaking people living under military siege of Pakistan army. >> > >> > >> > As it has been established that Pakistan is a 100\% failed state and in >> > view >> > of the fact that living under military siege of Pakistan army in the >> > disguise of an artificial democracy which has brought the same old faces >> of >> > corrupt and cunning politicians from Punjab, time has come for the >> > urdu-speaking nation to get up and acquire their own independent country >> > called Republic of Jinnahpur. In order to achieve this task, there are >> many >> > hurdles. However, impossible is nothing. Either we fail to prepare or >> > prepare to fail. Urdu-speaking nation cannot afford to remain in such a >> > situation that makes them rather a third class citizen in Pakistan. They >> > are >> > treated as "untouchables" like in India. They have no province of their >> > own. >> > They have no representation in the National Assembly according to their >> > population simply because the powerful political parties from Punjab and >> > Sindh want to restrict their entry into mainstream politics. The >> illiterate >> > land owners representing the rural dynasty of Pakistan do not want >> educated >> > urdu-speaking people to outclass them. These illiterate landlords and >> > jagirdars want to keep their socalled superiority intact by depriving >> > people >> > of Pakistan from educational prosperity. They dont want urdu-speaking >> > nation >> > to spread their message of awareness among the masses and therefore >> these >> > land lords and jagirdars are biggest advocates of status-quo in order to >> > keep their control on the entire system of governance. Pakistan Army is >> the >> > military arm of such elements which desire their own supremacy all over >> > Pakistan. They dont want an educated urdu-speaking person to destroy >> their >> > plans of dictatorship whether military or civil. >> > >> > I, therefore, suggest that MQM being the single political force of >> > urdu-speaking nation of Pakistan should do the following immediately: >> > >> > 1. TO FORM JINNAHPUR LIBERATION MOVEMENT IMMEDIATELY WHICH SHOULD >> COMPRISE >> > OF URDU-SPEAKING YOUTH, INTELLECTUALS, ARTISTS, BUSINESSMEN, STUDENTS, >> > RELIGIOUS SCHOLARS, POLITICIANS, WRITERS & POETS, JOURNALISTS, MEMBERS >> OF >> > CIVIL SOCIETY, EDUCATIONISTS AND PEOPLE FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE IN ORDER >> TO >> > ACCELERATE MOVEMENT FOR ACQUIRING AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY CALLED REPUBLIC >> OF >> > JINNAHPUR; >> > >> > 2. TO ORGANIZE A MASSIVE PLEBISCITE AND TAKE VOTES FROM URDU-SPEAKING >> > NATION >> > TO CONSOLIDATE THEIR DESIRE FOR AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY CALLED REPUBLIC >> OF >> > JINNAHPUR; >> > >> > 3. TO COORDINATE WITH USA SENATORS, EU MEMBER STATES AND THE WORLD'S TOP >> > HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS IN ORDER TO MAKE THEM AWARE ABOUT THE DEMANDS >> OF >> > URDU-SPEAKING NATION LIVING IN PAKISTAN AND THEIR RIGHTS OF EXISTENCE >> WITH >> > A >> > SPECIFIC IDENTITY UNDER THE BANNER OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR; >> > >> > 4. TO APPROACH UNITED NATIONS TO SEND PEACE KEEPING TROOPS TO KARACHI >> > IMMEDIATELY TO AVOID YET ANOTHER "OPERATION CLEAN UP" BY PAKISTAN ARMY >> ON >> > THE PRETEXT OF ELIMINATION OF TERRORISM AND SABOTAGING THE MOVEMENT FOR >> > INDEPENDENCE; >> > >> > 5. TO FILE OFFICIAL APPLICATION WITH THE OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY GENERAL >> OF >> > THE UNITED NATIONS TO RECOGNIZE INDEPENDENCE OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR >> AND >> > REQUEST FOR MILITARY AS WELL AS DIPLOMATIC ASSISTANCE OF THE UNITED >> > NATIONS; >> > >> > >> > 6. TO APPROACH MUSLIM WORLD AND DISSEMINATE INFORMATION TO THEM ABOUT >> THE >> > POLITICAL RIGHTS OF URDU-SPEAKING NATION AND NEED FOR AN INDEPENDENT >> > COUNTRY >> > FOR THEM; >> > >> > 7. TO ORGANIZE CONFERENCES, PRESS BRIEFINGS, SEMINARS, WORKSHOPS, >> MEETINGS >> > AND FORA IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE WORLD IN ORDER TO CONVEY MESSAGE TO >> THE >> > WHOLE WORLD ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE AND NEED OF AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY FOR >> > URDU-SPEAKING NATION IN SOUTH ASIA FOR PEACE AND HARMONY IN THE REGION; >> > >> > 8. TO APPLY FOR MEMBERSHIP TO ALL REGIONAL AS WELL AS INTERNATIONAL >> > ASSOCIATIONS, GROUPS, TREATIES, CLUBS, UNIONS AND ORGANIZATIONS (TRADE >> OR >> > OTHERWISE) ON BEHALF OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR; >> > >> > 9. TO FORM A GOVERNMENT-IN-EXILE OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR WITH IMMEDIATE >> > EFFECT IN ANY EU COUNTRY OR USA OR INDIA; >> > >> > 10. TO APPROACH PARMANENT MEMBERS OF SUCURITY COUNCIL OF THE UNITED >> NATIONS >> > TO SEEK THEIR CONSENT AND APPROVAL FOR FORMATION OF REPUBLIC OF >> JINNAHPUR >> > BY >> > PRESENTING TO THEM ALL FACTS AND FIGURES IN SUPPORT OF THE IDEA OF AN >> > INDEPENDENT COUNTRY FOR URDU-SPEAKING NATION IN SOUTH ASIA; >> > >> > SAY "YES" TO FORMATION OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR >> > >> > SYED JAMALUDDIN >> > FRANCE >> > www.dividepakistan.blogspot.com >> > www.jinnahpur.blogspot.com >> > jinnahpur at gmail.com >> >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Fri Feb 6 14:11:24 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 08:41:24 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR In-Reply-To: <341380d00902052246x5cf6a516i73902ca7fcf6221a@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70902052234mf36357cid05177b9e859f7ad@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00902052246x5cf6a516i73902ca7fcf6221a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Territorial issue only adds to the dilema of the Urdu speaking Muhajirs in Pakistan. It is ironic that the Urdu speaking Muslim followers of Jinha & Muslim League ,who were mainly responsible for the creation of Pakistan on the basis of religion based two nation theory & who suffered the most, continue to be treated as Muhajiris in their own choosen 'land of the pure' even after sixty years of the partition. Similar treatment was meted out to the Urdu speaking Muslims of East Pakistan when Pakistan refused to take them at the time of the creation of Bangladesh. Overwhelming influence of the then West Pakistan could as well be attributed to the territorial as well as identity crisis that finally lead to the independance of Bangladesh ...??... Balooch leader Akbar Bughti - a staunch Pakistani nationalist himself rose in rabellion against the economic exploitation of Baloochistan & was eliminated. Even Pakhtoons in the NWFP had to suffer the ignominy of accusations of being congressmen ( pre partition indian national congress ). It is the identity crisis within Pakistan that is making it so chaotic.Religion can not be the sole binding factor. Regards all LA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 12:16:04 +0530> From: c.anupam at gmail.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR> > I am surprised that this petition in guise of being interesting and other> such things made it to petitiononline. something wrong with those guys. it> is ridiculous...i dont know why it is included in this mailing list which> carries some of the best scholarly articles of our times. before moving into> the details of what this petition seeks, i would say that the first premise> that identity conflicts are basis of all conflicts is flawed and a bogus> excuse. I think human beings are territorial more than anything else, be it> identity..more land that's what they want. all conflicts are territorial.> > > On 2/6/09, Pawan Durani wrote:> >> > Interesting petition , where people can vote can be found at this link> >> > http://www.petitiononline.com/mohajir/petition.html> >> >> > To: The People of Karachi> >> > FORMATION OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR> >> > According to my proposed plan, the Southern port city of Pakistan called> > Karachi shall become the Republic of Jinnahpur. This proposed formation of> > Republic of Jinnahpur shall be in line with the anticipated plan towards> > Pakistan's disintegration in the best interest of world's peace and> > elimination of terrorism as envisioned by me in my earlier book titled> > "DIVIDE PAKISTAN TO ELIMINATE TERRORISM". The name Republic of Jinnahpur is> > given in view of the fact that Muhammad Ali Jinnah who was leader of Muslim> > League back in 1940s in the United India and who had struggled for the> > formation of Pakistan was born in Karachi on December 25, 1876. Muhammad> > Ali> > Jinnah's mausoleum is also in Karachi.> >> >> > "All conflicts are identity conflicts" said John Paul Lederach, Professor> > of> > International Peacebuilding at The Joan B. Kroc Institute for International> > Peace Studies, University of Notre Dame, Indiana, USA. This statement is,> > in> > my opinion, very conclusive to explain the very nature and significance of> > all conflicts existing either at international level or regional level. All> > such conflicts are basically 'identity conflicts'.> >> >> > In recent years, scholars have taken an intense interest in questions> > concerning identity. In comparative politics, "identity" plays a central> > role in work on nationalism and ethnic conflict. In international> > relations,> > the idea of "state identity" is at the heart of constructivist critiques of> > realism and analyses of state sovereignty. And in political theory,> > questions of "identity" mark numerous arguments on gender, sexuality,> > nationality, ethnicity, and culture in relation to liberalism and its> > alternatives. Compared to recent scholarship in history and the humanities,> > however, political scientists remain undecided when it comes to work on> > identities. Despite this vastly increased and broad-ranging interest in> > "identity," the concept itself remains a controversy.> >> >> > A "failed state" is one that has a "shattered social and political> > structure". In the words of former Secretary-General of the United Nations,> > Boutros Boutros-Ghali: 'A feature of such conflicts is the collapse of> > state> > institutions, especially the police and judiciary, with resulting paralysis> > of governance, a breakdown of law and order, and general banditry and> > chaos.> > Not only are the functions of government suspended, but its assets are> > destroyed or looted and experienced officials are killed or flee the> > country. This is rarely the case in inter-state wars. It means that> > international intervention must extend beyond military and humanitarian> > tasks and must include the promotion of international reconciliation and> > the> > re-establishment of effective government.'"> >> >> > The Telegraph newspaper has reported recently in an editorial that Pakistan> > is a failed state hosting both nuclear weapons and alQaeda's core> > leadership; a unique combination which makes it the world's most dangerous> > country. According to the paper, if threats to global security in terms of> > terrorism, nuclear weapons and the spread of failed states are considered,> > Pakistan stands at the nexus of all three phenomena. Whoever emerges from> > the present political maelstrom to lead Pakistan will have to deal with the> > country's unofficial status as al-Qaeda's heartland, the paper adds.> > According to the Telegraph, the Pakistani state is so weak that armed> > Islamist groups have a free rein over large areas. In Balochistan, an> > ethnic> > insurgency is underway. In Karachi, Pakistan's largest city and the> > commercial capital, a ruthless political machine linked to organised crime,> > is in charge, while Peshawar is seen as the hotbed of Islamist zealotry.> >> >> > Therefore, Pakistan for all practical purposes is very close to> > disintegration, and could most definitely be termed as a 'failed state'.> > Noted philosopher and political activist Noam Chomsky also recently said> > that Pakistan was a "paradigm example of a failed state" that had undergone> > an "extremely dangerous form of radical Islamisation." The country was now> > in danger of "collapsing" as it grappled with rebellion, militancy and> > extremism that was "getting worse". Asked to draw a parallel between the> > situation in Pakistan and the characteristics of a failed state highlighted> > in his book "Failed States", Chomsky said, "I am afraid to say Pakistan is> > the paradigm example of a failed state and has been for a long time. It has> > had military rule, violence and oppression." Since the 1980s, the country> > had undergone an extremely dangerous form of radical Islamisation, which> > had> > undermined a good part of the society, under the Zia-ul-Haq tyranny, he> > said. "Now it is in danger of collapsing, there is a rebellion in> > Balochistan, the (Federally Administered Tribal Areas) territories are out> > of control and always have been and it is getting worse.> >> > In view of this accepted and recognized fact that Pakistan is going to> > disintegrate any time from now, it is important that all nations living> > under siege of presently undivided Pakistan's military dictatorship should> > begin efforts for their respective liberation as envisioned by me in my> > earlier book titled "DIVIDE PAKISTAN TO ELIMINATE TERRORISM".> >> >> > Being a member of a family which had migrated from India in early 50s and> > settled in Karachi, the port city of presently undivided Pakistan, it has> > now become my duty to caution my friends and brothers back in Pakistan> > particularly in Karachi to stop dreaming about a united Pakistan. To> > implement my vision of dividing Pakistan and forming 6 new countries in> > South Asia by disintegrating Pakistan, I would like to start this campaign> > by proposing formation of REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR. This book shall highlight> > reasons, causes and necessary elements for the formation of Republic of> > Jinnahpur. This is my humble prayer that Karachi should soon become> > Republic> > of Jinnahpur. Ameen.> >> >> > Formation of Republic of Jinnahpur is inevitable as soon as possible before> > the Pakistan Army decides to launch yet another 1992-like genocide in> > Karachi. I suggest to Mr. Altaf Hussain, leader of MQM which is the single> > most influential political force of 'Mohajirs' (Migrants from India who had> > settled in Pakistan at the time of breakup of United India in 1947) to> > utilize these precious moments of his life by giving a call for formation> > of> > Republic of Jinnahpur by launching Jinnahpur Liberation Movement under the> > banner of MQM. I hope the people of Karachi will loudly say "YES" to his> > call.> >> >> > What I am saying is very simple. Urdu-speaking people living in Karachi,> > Hyderabad, Sukkur and other cities in the province of Sindh (Pakistan)> > deserve their own country. An independent country for Urdu-speaking people> > will solve their economic problems on one hand and provide an environment> > of> > freedom from the military dictatorship of Punjab province on the other.> > Time> > has now come that the cruel domination of Punjab must end by all means. The> > Punjabi military has been ruling Pakistan ever since its inception. The> > Urdu-speaking great leaders who had struggled for the freedom of Pakistan> > were brutally murdered as part of the Punjabi conspiracy to hijack the> > country. It has become inevitable now that Punjab should no longer be given> > the right or power to continue its control on other smaller provinces of> > Pakistan. At least Sindhis, Pathans and Balochis have some of their> > regional> > identities but the Urdu-speaking people have been compelled to become> > Sindhis which is not possible. Urdu-speaking people have their own identity> > and worth. It is not possible for Urdu-speaking people to become part of> > Sindh. This attempt to make Urdu-speaking people part of Sindh has always> > failed. This fact that Urdu-speaking people are independent in their> > thinking and are able to represent themselves more effectively if they are> > independent, should be accepted and recognized by the whole world. One> > cannot force a French person to become German or a Czech citizen to become> > Spanish or a Polish citizen to become Russian, similarly, one should also> > not force an Urdu-speaking citizen to become Sindhi. Urdu language is much> > different from Sindhi language. Not only language, there is glaring> > difference in terms of culture, traditions, national character, vision,> > approach, mindset and above all religious thinking. Indeed Sindhis are> > brothers of Urdu-speaking people in their joint effort to get rid of> > Punjab's political domination through achieving independence of Jinnahpur> > and Sindhudesh. Urdu-speaking people cannot be forced to stay with Sindhis> > forever and without their own right of freedom. Both Urdu-speaking people> > and Sindhis deserve their respective identities through formation of> > Jinnahpur and Sindhudesh. Both these nations are not ready to remain under> > the umbrella of socalled Pakistan which is nothing but a political colony> > of> > Punjab. This colony must, therefore, disintegrate without any further> > delay.> >> >> >> > If other separatist movements in the world are accepted and acknowledged> > worldwide, movement for a free and independent state for Urdu-speaking> > people currently living under dictatorial siege of Pakistan army should> > also> > be embraced by the United States of America and other Western nations. If> > Kosovo can get independence in 21st century, why not Urdu-speaking people> > of> > Pakistan can get their own country called Republic of Jinnahpur.> > Urdu-speaking people are also intelligent, educated, hardworking and> > politically sound to fight for their independence in the 21st century.> > Urdu-sepaking people should not be under estimated or considered as any> > regional minority of Pakistan. Urdu-speaking people represent the most> > educated class in the presently undivided Pakistan. When it come to> > educational statistics of Pakistan in the field of education, the> > contribution of Urdu-speaking people is upto 80\%. It must be noted that> > Pakistan without Urdu-speaking people is nothing but a jungle of> > illiterates> > from Punjab and people in uniform who have hijacked this country for the> > economic betterment of military dictators along with Punjabi bureacracy and> > their families.> >> >> >> > Republic of Jinnahpur shall be an economic capital of South Asia which will> > beat Dubai and Singapore on one hand and become a great place for foreign> > investment on the other. The deserving people of Republic of Jinnahpur will> > have job opportunities because of billions of dollars of foreign investment> > which is at present hindred because of terrorist activities sponsored by> > Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and other military sponsored> > organizations. Such terrorist activities conducted by Pakistan's ISI and> > other military sponsored militant organizations have rather blocked the> > economic progress of Karachi which in turn have created hurdles for the> > deserving educated Urdu-speaking class to invite foreign investment into> > Karachi. It is only possible if Karachi gets its independence and formation> > of Republic of Jinnahpur shall ensure that the deserving Urdu-speaking> > people will get their right of progress and prosperity under the banner of> > an independent country called Republic of Jinnahpur.> >> > Pakistan has been declared a failed state and therefore remaining part of> > Pakistan means declaring ourselves as failed too. Urdu-speaking people of> > Karachi cannot be classified as failed because it is due to them that> > Pakistan has been surviving so far. Had there been no educated class making> > contribution towards Pakistan's economic growth in the last 60 years,> > Pakistan would not have reached to the level where it is now. However, due> > to its political failure and its inability to remain as a sovereign state,> > Pakistan is very close to its disintegration. In such a situation, it would> > not be ideal for Urdu-speaking people to remain intact with Pakistan.> > Rather, it is important that Urdu-speaking people should initiate their> > fight for freedom while Pathans, Balochis and Sindhis should follow suit.> > Republic of Jinnahpur can establish a precedence for freedom of all nations> > currently suffering under the military siege of Punjab.> >> > When I say "Punjab", I do not intend to include those great people of> > Punjab> > who consider themselves as Ghulaman-e-Ahl-e-Bait (Servants of Holy Prophet> > Muhammad SA, His beloved daughter Hazrat Bibi Fatima AS, His loyal> > son-in-law Hazrat Ali AS, His beloved grand sons Hassan AS and Hussain AS)> > and also the Seraiki nation who were wrongfully made part of Punjab> > province> > by the cruel Punjabi politicians in order to gain monetary gains by> > manipulating the total population of Punjab province. Even after 60 years,> > the Seraiki belt has been economically kept backward while poor Punjabi> > servants of Ahl-e-Bait were deprived of their constitutional right of> > serving in the Pakistan Army because of Wahabi-oriented policies made by> > Asian Hitler called General Zia-ul-Haq back in 1979 which kept Shia and> > true> > Barelvi Sunni Muslims away from army jobs. The doors of Republic of> > Jinnahpur shall remain open for such Punjabi brothers forever.> >> > As for the Pathans, Balochis and Sindhis, I would like to convey my message> > to them that they should also get up from long sleep. The Punjabi military> > killed several Pathan freedom fighters, Baloch freedom fighters and even> > stabbed Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto who had brought back home 90,000 Punjabi> > Prisoners of War. The brutality of Punjabi military can be evaluated on the> > basis of their one single act that they stabbed and killed Zulfiqar Ali> > Bhutto who was their rescuer from Indian prison. Not only this, the Punjabi> > military recently killed Benazir Bhutto in order to wipe her off from the> > political scene to keep the status quo alive. The murder of Bhuttos should> > be sufficient for the Sindhis to wake up and get their own independence> > from> > Pakistan by forming Sindhudesh. Similarly, independent Pakhtoonistan and> > Balochistan should also appear on the world map in the nearest future.> >> > The Urdu-speaking people are peace-loving people in true perspective. They> > dont want any confrontation, however, they have their right to defend> > themselves against the brutality of Punjabi army. The Urdu-speaking people> > shall not become victim of yet another Operation Cleanup which was once> > conducted by Punjabi army in 1992. Nawaz Sharif and his Punjabi political> > team of hypocrites cannot succeed in their conspiracy to regain substantial> > power again although they have just swallowed a bitter pill of shaking> > hands> > with Asif Zardari, a Sindhi man and spouse of Shaheed Benazir Bhutto. It is> > important that Asif Zardari should immediately understand conspiracy and> > hidden agenda of Nawaz Sharif and his political team of hypocrites who do> > not possess any sympathy or love for any nation otherthan typical Wahabi> > minded Punjabis. Nawaz Sharif is only waiting for the right time to> > confront> > Asif Zardari and as such Nawaz Sharif will definitely attempt to get into> > Pakistan's National Assembly through a by-election and thereafter challenge> > Asif Zardari and Bhuttos' Sindh-based political party called Peoples'> > Party.> > I cannot accept for any reason that Nawaz Sharif or his political team of> > hypocrites would ever accept any Sindhi, Pathan, Baloch or Urdu-speaking> > person to become Pakistan's prime minister. This is impossible for any> > Punjabi hypocrite like Nawaz Sharif to extend his hand for cooperation or> > affection towards any Sindhi, Pathan, Baloch or Urdu-speaking person in the> > name of socalled political reconciliation. I ask all the politicians from> > Pakhtoonistan, Balochistan, Seraiki belt and Sindhudesh not to believe> > Nawaz> > Sharif and his false promises of mutual cooperation or other similar sweet> > slogans. A snake is always a snake. Nawaz Sharif cannot be trusted.> >> > I want all Urdu-speaking people living in Karachi, Hyderabad, Sukkur and> > other parts of Sindh to become active members of JINNAHPUR LIBERATION> > MOVEMENT. This movement shall be non-militant and non-violent in reality.> > This movement shall be run by Urdu-speaking intellectuals, educationists,> > workers, students, businessmen and politicians. This movement shall be> > peaceful and totally committed for creating international awareness about> > the great demand for an independent state called Republic of Jinnahpur by> > the Urdu-speaking people living under military siege of Pakistan army.> >> >> > As it has been established that Pakistan is a 100\% failed state and in> > view> > of the fact that living under military siege of Pakistan army in the> > disguise of an artificial democracy which has brought the same old faces of> > corrupt and cunning politicians from Punjab, time has come for the> > urdu-speaking nation to get up and acquire their own independent country> > called Republic of Jinnahpur. In order to achieve this task, there are many> > hurdles. However, impossible is nothing. Either we fail to prepare or> > prepare to fail. Urdu-speaking nation cannot afford to remain in such a> > situation that makes them rather a third class citizen in Pakistan. They> > are> > treated as "untouchables" like in India. They have no province of their> > own.> > They have no representation in the National Assembly according to their> > population simply because the powerful political parties from Punjab and> > Sindh want to restrict their entry into mainstream politics. The illiterate> > land owners representing the rural dynasty of Pakistan do not want educated> > urdu-speaking people to outclass them. These illiterate landlords and> > jagirdars want to keep their socalled superiority intact by depriving> > people> > of Pakistan from educational prosperity. They dont want urdu-speaking> > nation> > to spread their message of awareness among the masses and therefore these> > land lords and jagirdars are biggest advocates of status-quo in order to> > keep their control on the entire system of governance. Pakistan Army is the> > military arm of such elements which desire their own supremacy all over> > Pakistan. They dont want an educated urdu-speaking person to destroy their> > plans of dictatorship whether military or civil.> >> > I, therefore, suggest that MQM being the single political force of> > urdu-speaking nation of Pakistan should do the following immediately:> >> > 1. TO FORM JINNAHPUR LIBERATION MOVEMENT IMMEDIATELY WHICH SHOULD COMPRISE> > OF URDU-SPEAKING YOUTH, INTELLECTUALS, ARTISTS, BUSINESSMEN, STUDENTS,> > RELIGIOUS SCHOLARS, POLITICIANS, WRITERS & POETS, JOURNALISTS, MEMBERS OF> > CIVIL SOCIETY, EDUCATIONISTS AND PEOPLE FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE IN ORDER TO> > ACCELERATE MOVEMENT FOR ACQUIRING AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY CALLED REPUBLIC OF> > JINNAHPUR;> >> > 2. TO ORGANIZE A MASSIVE PLEBISCITE AND TAKE VOTES FROM URDU-SPEAKING> > NATION> > TO CONSOLIDATE THEIR DESIRE FOR AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY CALLED REPUBLIC OF> > JINNAHPUR;> >> > 3. TO COORDINATE WITH USA SENATORS, EU MEMBER STATES AND THE WORLD'S TOP> > HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS IN ORDER TO MAKE THEM AWARE ABOUT THE DEMANDS OF> > URDU-SPEAKING NATION LIVING IN PAKISTAN AND THEIR RIGHTS OF EXISTENCE WITH> > A> > SPECIFIC IDENTITY UNDER THE BANNER OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR;> >> > 4. TO APPROACH UNITED NATIONS TO SEND PEACE KEEPING TROOPS TO KARACHI> > IMMEDIATELY TO AVOID YET ANOTHER "OPERATION CLEAN UP" BY PAKISTAN ARMY ON> > THE PRETEXT OF ELIMINATION OF TERRORISM AND SABOTAGING THE MOVEMENT FOR> > INDEPENDENCE;> >> > 5. TO FILE OFFICIAL APPLICATION WITH THE OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY GENERAL OF> > THE UNITED NATIONS TO RECOGNIZE INDEPENDENCE OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR AND> > REQUEST FOR MILITARY AS WELL AS DIPLOMATIC ASSISTANCE OF THE UNITED> > NATIONS;> >> >> > 6. TO APPROACH MUSLIM WORLD AND DISSEMINATE INFORMATION TO THEM ABOUT THE> > POLITICAL RIGHTS OF URDU-SPEAKING NATION AND NEED FOR AN INDEPENDENT> > COUNTRY> > FOR THEM;> >> > 7. TO ORGANIZE CONFERENCES, PRESS BRIEFINGS, SEMINARS, WORKSHOPS, MEETINGS> > AND FORA IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE WORLD IN ORDER TO CONVEY MESSAGE TO THE> > WHOLE WORLD ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE AND NEED OF AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY FOR> > URDU-SPEAKING NATION IN SOUTH ASIA FOR PEACE AND HARMONY IN THE REGION;> >> > 8. TO APPLY FOR MEMBERSHIP TO ALL REGIONAL AS WELL AS INTERNATIONAL> > ASSOCIATIONS, GROUPS, TREATIES, CLUBS, UNIONS AND ORGANIZATIONS (TRADE OR> > OTHERWISE) ON BEHALF OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR;> >> > 9. TO FORM A GOVERNMENT-IN-EXILE OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR WITH IMMEDIATE> > EFFECT IN ANY EU COUNTRY OR USA OR INDIA;> >> > 10. TO APPROACH PARMANENT MEMBERS OF SUCURITY COUNCIL OF THE UNITED NATIONS> > TO SEEK THEIR CONSENT AND APPROVAL FOR FORMATION OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR> > BY> > PRESENTING TO THEM ALL FACTS AND FIGURES IN SUPPORT OF THE IDEA OF AN> > INDEPENDENT COUNTRY FOR URDU-SPEAKING NATION IN SOUTH ASIA;> >> > SAY "YES" TO FORMATION OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR> >> > SYED JAMALUDDIN> > FRANCE> > www.dividepakistan.blogspot.com> > www.jinnahpur.blogspot.com> > jinnahpur at gmail.com> > _________________________________________> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> > Critiques & Collaborations> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with> > subscribe in the subject header.> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ For the freshest Indian Jobs Visit MSN Jobs http://www.in.msn.com/jobs From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 15:32:52 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 15:32:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] No money from PoK, so no apples: Kashmiris Message-ID: <6353c690902060202g5a5c6b06r184a128d204bd3d1@mail.gmail.com> No money from PoK, so no apples: Kashmiris Mir Ehsan Indian Express Posted online: February 05, 2009 at 2036 Link - http://www.kashmirlive.com/story/3-months-on-Kashmirs-fruit-growers-lose-interest-in-PoK/419704.html *Srinagar *Kashmir's Fruit Growers, who organised massive protests for opening of the Srinagar-Muzuffarabad road for the trade activities, now have stopped sending their apple consignments to Pakistan occupied Kashmir (PoK). In Oct, 2008, cross LoC trade through Kaman Bridge on the Srinagar-Muzuffarabad road was started amid much fanfare. On the first day, 14 apple laden trucks crossed the bridge. Three months later, the fruit trade had hit the road block as Valley growers have completely stopped dispatching their apples to Muzuffarabad. General Manager, DIC Mohammad Ashraf Wani who also is custodian for the cross LoC trade confirmed that no apple truck was sent across the LoC in the latest cross LoC trading. "On Tuesday, six trucks were dispatched from Kashmir to PoK. But, not a single apple box was in the consignment," he said. Wani, however, said the trade on barter system, continues through Uri's Kaman Bridge on weekly basis. "So far, 6,000 apple boxes were dispatched by the growers. But, growers seem to have lost interest in the trade through LoC." Before the start of cross LoC trade growers were curious to dispatch their apples to PoK. Now, they are not. "We were eagerly waiting for the beginning of cross LoC trade, even dispatched thousands of apple boxes to PoK in the start. But, so far growers have not received a single penny in lieu of the apples," President Fruit Mandi Sopore, Bashir Beig said. "After three months, we don't know what happened to apples in PoK," he said. Beig said the growers have stopped sending their products to PoK. "This time, we only dispatch our apples to different mandies of the country as the market is good there," he said. "The trade is useless unless government starts a permanent communication link between two parts of Kashmir," he said. The growers who dispatched their apples on the first day of opening of the trade too are losing hope about future of the trade. "Unless growers are allowed to visit to Pok, this cross LoC business is meaningless," said Javid Ahmad, a trader who dispatched around 100 apple boxes on October 20, 2008. "I don't know what happened to my apples in PoK. Government has to do more to sustain this trade, otherwise in coming months no trade will take place via Kaman bridge. " There is other reason that compelled growers not to dispatch their apples to PoK as the growers were offered lucrative rates by the Delhi based traders. "Soon after the cross LoC trade started, the rates of apples have gone up," said Beig, adding that this year all the losses got compensated by good rates. Before the start of trade, the Union Ministry of Commerce has approved a list of 23 items from Kashmir. Pakistan, too, had sent a list of 26 items. The items from the Indian side include fruit (fresh and dry), spices, saffron, carpets, wall hangings, woolens, aromatic and medicinal plants, Cricket bats, black mushrooms, green tea, imli, dhania, rajmah. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 16:47:49 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 16:47:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70902052042x1f05a1a0j5433882c67f6c8ed@mail.gmail.com> References: <776819.99479.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <47e122a70902030616o735a281dn72f781916ebe25d0@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902030841h46c5c975rcf2c546473c869b7@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70902052042x1f05a1a0j5433882c67f6c8ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Pawan (and all) With respect to the points which you have raised, which deserve discussion across larger communities and certainly in the so-called 'peace process' which is being continued, I wish to say the following things here. Firstly, I have never stated that the fight and quest for justice must be stopped. The biggest mistake any one of us, can ever make, is suffering injustice without fighting to overcome it and get justice for ourselves. Therefore, your fight does deserve a mention, provided it is actually fighting for justice. Now, coming to the point you have raised regarding exodus of Pandits since the last 1000 years ago. It is certainly right that forced exodus in any kind of situations are not right, and if there is anything we can learn from history, it's that dignity is the most important requirement for any individual, and every person, even a living creature, has a right to life with dignity on this earth and this world. However, that dignity does not come from trampling over the rights of others, but instead comes from helping others to also live their lives with dignity, and also giving due recognition to their right. But from the kind of logic which has been used in support of the Kashmiri Pandits, I particularly have the notion that such logic has done more harm than good for the community. I have never said that justice should not be sought for at all. As I stated in my earlier post to this list, I said that while justice for all the incidents of the past must be sought, the Pandits, in a conciliatory measure, can waive away the death sentence, provided those who committed the violence during the 90's are willing to surrender, lay down arms, are willing to talk, are willing to fight cases against them, and most importantly, accept sentences imposed upon them as punishment if they are found to be guilty. I am not asking anybody to be an 'Angulimala' at all. The logic used by Aditya on the other hand, makes it seem that retributive justice is the way to go according to the Pandits themselves. Even in the name of justice being offered, in the form of punishments given through the law, it seems that the Pandits only want death sentence to be offered to them. From the documentaries I have seen and the way relatives of victims have behaved in public, it's a fact that the loss of a person brings so much grief to the family, that he/she is only concerned with getting justice, in order to get back the dignity to their life, which is what their need is. They are not much interested with the political games and policies being toyed around with in the name of the incidents, which led to the loss of their loved and dear ones, whether be it in riots or pressurizing Pakistan after the Mumbai attacks. The way things have been written, a sense of anger which should be directed at the Indian nation state for not giving proper justice, has been turned into an anger against a community, which has painted as 'the enemy' of the Indian nation state. Instead of realizing that being 'nationalistic' and following 'nationalistic ideals like secularism' has not helped in achieving your goals of justice, and thereby realizing that instead of nationalism, problems should be solved from a human angle as well (all politics and socialism and things like that come from the human angle, for they wouldn't exist without humans), you have gone on to give articles which give the perception that Kashmiri Muslims are pro-Pakistani, all separatists are Pakistan's chamchas, that their community is one of killers and so on. And then in the same breath, when the comment comes that the high voting percentages in the Valley are indicative of support to the Indian nation state, I don't know what to make of all this. After all, how can pro-Pakistani people suddenly turn their stand to support India when they all along have been fighting, in your words, for a terrorist movement (in the garb of 'azadi')? Yes, the fact is that police cases were not registered for the crimes committed. Yes, the Indian nation state didn't come to the rescue of the Pandits when they were suffering, so also along with those Muslims and people of other communities who were loyal to India. Yes, the Indian nation state didn't make a concerted effort to provide justice to all those who suffered. And more importantly, the Indian nation state hasn't tried to build bridges between the Pandits and the Kashmiri Muslims by providing them chances to interact with each other, and understand each other's positions. But then, history always has a context. And that context must be understood as well. Why did Muslims in the valley ask for an azadi at all, if they were so 'happy' with the Indian democracy? Because of the political games being played with the J & K Govt, by the central govt at Delhi, in the name of protecting 'national interests', we had to come up to such a situation in the first place, which culminated in the rigged elections of 1987-88. And yes, violence was wrong, but it happened because of such cases occuring repeatedly in the name of protecting 'Kashmir'. Let me ask all here a simple question. At the time of independence, Hydrebad, Junagadh and Jammu & Kashmir were incorporated into India, after these three states didn't initially accept their inclusion into the Indian Union. If Junagadh could have a plebiscite to ascertain whether the people there wanted to go with Pakistan or with India, why can't Kashmir and Jammu also have the same? I am not sure about Hydrebad as well, but that argument does go along for there as well. Therefore, for you, it's a view that you were cheated by the Indian Union which forgot to see that you are nationalistic and secular. For me, they cheated you because they are cheaters any way. They use nationalism and secularism only to further their own ends, and to spread their own bigotry among the public. Wasn't secularism there anyway before it was introduced in the Indian preamble? And there have been more riots after this inclusion of the word 'secular' in the Indian preamble of the constitution, than were they before this word was included, since the inception of republic in India. Hence, I dont' say you shouldn't ask for justice. But it's my humble request, to at least see now the reason that being ardent followers of nationalism and secularism is not what gets you justice. And hence please realize that the Indian nation state has failed you (as it repeatedly does every day all of us, in some way or the other). And more importantly, taking that into mind, also realize that others are humans, as much as you are, and have some compassion among you. Not all Kashmiri Muslims are killers. Not all of them were terrorists or supported that agitation. May be not all of them want azadi. But what all of them do want, is the same as what all of you want, which is a right to life of dignity. Fight for your cause. Go ahead in that case. But please stop believing that nationalism is the solution to all your problems, or even the problem of Kashmir. It has never been, and will never be the solution to India's problems. It will only compound the problems of the past, and will further bring many more among us. And secondly, not all of them are enemies, so please start talking with them. Please interact with them. They did make mistakes in supporting those who killed you or just remained aloof at that time (which is a greater mistake), but times change, and one has to go ahead with life, and if one has to do so, why not be happy and live it? It's not simple as I have said it. But yes, while seeking justice, is it really impossible for Pandits to strat talking to Kashmiri Muslims? Is it impossible to believe that they are human beings first, as much as the Pandits, or any of us are? Is it impossible to believe that views and beliefs contrary to those held by majority can also exist in a society? Or is it impossible to accept the expression of those views in public? Or is it that for now on, Kashmiri Muslims and Kashmiri Pandits are the enemies of each other for once and for all times? Regarding Panun Kashmir, I would just say one thing. I have only heard Pandits make this claim. First of all, I believe that we outside Kashmir have no right to decide what is good for them and what is not. Hence, any choice of Panun Kashmir, or any 'azad' state, must be introduced only after seeking consent from the people there, either through referendum or plebiscite, or whatever you and others may wish to call. Just giving a macro based statement that many people support it is not going to work in a democratic polity like India. But yes, if Kashmir in an 'azad' state is going to resemble today's India or today's Pakistan, God forbid that any 'azadi' ever takes place. Otherwise, there would be creation of yet another disastrous nation state which would be totally disastrous for the people there. Regards Rakesh From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 17:37:37 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 17:37:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice In-Reply-To: References: <776819.99479.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <47e122a70902030616o735a281dn72f781916ebe25d0@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902030841h46c5c975rcf2c546473c869b7@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70902052042x1f05a1a0j5433882c67f6c8ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902060407p35027e6t69af5c80fb04919e@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh JI , Thank you for your response. I would request you and others that for Gods sake [commies plz excuse ] stop giving excuse of rigged election in 1987 as a reason for being rebel against India. Rakesh Ji , please name me a state in India where elections have/are not being rigged ? Do we have a separatist movement in all those states ? The prime reason,whether you accept it or not is that since Kashmir is a muslim dominated Area, some section of muslims do not accept the idea of living in a secular country,despite having a unique special status much to discrimination of rest of India. It may take you ages to accept this concept,but one day you will. As a citizen of this country , we have right to express what is right anywhere. Please do accept your approval or reservations about the future union territory of Panun Kashmir. Unless we dont create a discussion, the reality would take more time. referendums have not been done in participation of Indian states. I do not recall it being done in creation of Uttranchal or Jharkhand as well ,unless i have a poor knowledge. Warm Regards Pawan Durani On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 4:47 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Pawan (and all) > > With respect to the points which you have raised, which deserve discussion > across larger communities and certainly in the so-called 'peace process' > which is being continued, I wish to say the following things here. > > Firstly, I have never stated that the fight and quest for justice must be > stopped. The biggest mistake any one of us, can ever make, is suffering > injustice without fighting to overcome it and get justice for ourselves. > Therefore, your fight does deserve a mention, provided it is actually > fighting for justice. > > Now, coming to the point you have raised regarding exodus of Pandits since > the last 1000 years ago. It is certainly right that forced exodus in any > kind of situations are not right, and if there is anything we can learn from > history, it's that dignity is the most important requirement for any > individual, and every person, even a living creature, has a right to life > with dignity on this earth and this world. However, that dignity does not > come from trampling over the rights of others, but instead comes from > helping others to also live their lives with dignity, and also giving due > recognition to their right. > > But from the kind of logic which has been used in support of the Kashmiri > Pandits, I particularly have the notion that such logic has done more harm > than good for the community. I have never said that justice should not be > sought for at all. As I stated in my earlier post to this list, I said that > while justice for all the incidents of the past must be sought, the Pandits, > in a conciliatory measure, can waive away the death sentence, provided those > who committed the violence during the 90's are willing to surrender, lay > down arms, are willing to talk, are willing to fight cases against them, and > most importantly, accept sentences imposed upon them as punishment if they > are found to be guilty. I am not asking anybody to be an 'Angulimala' at > all. > > The logic used by Aditya on the other hand, makes it seem that retributive > justice is the way to go according to the Pandits themselves. Even in the > name of justice being offered, in the form of punishments given through the > law, it seems that the Pandits only want death sentence to be offered to > them. From the documentaries I have seen and the way relatives of victims > have behaved in public, it's a fact that the loss of a person brings so much > grief to the family, that he/she is only concerned with getting justice, in > order to get back the dignity to their life, which is what their need is. > They are not much interested with the political games and policies being > toyed around with in the name of the incidents, which led to the loss of > their loved and dear ones, whether be it in riots or pressurizing Pakistan > after the Mumbai attacks. > > The way things have been written, a sense of anger which should be directed > at the Indian nation state for not giving proper justice, has been turned > into an anger against a community, which has painted as 'the enemy' of the > Indian nation state. Instead of realizing that being 'nationalistic' and > following 'nationalistic ideals like secularism' has not helped in achieving > your goals of justice, and thereby realizing that instead of nationalism, > problems should be solved from a human angle as well (all politics and > socialism and things like that come from the human angle, for they wouldn't > exist without humans), you have gone on to give articles which give the > perception that Kashmiri Muslims are pro-Pakistani, all separatists are > Pakistan's chamchas, that their community is one of killers and so on. And > then in the same breath, when the comment comes that the high voting > percentages in the Valley are indicative of support to the Indian nation > state, I don't know what to make of all this. After all, how can > pro-Pakistani people suddenly turn their stand to support India when they > all along have been fighting, in your words, for a terrorist movement (in > the garb of 'azadi')? > > Yes, the fact is that police cases were not registered for the crimes > committed. Yes, the Indian nation state didn't come to the rescue of the > Pandits when they were suffering, so also along with those Muslims and > people of other communities who were loyal to India. Yes, the Indian nation > state didn't make a concerted effort to provide justice to all those who > suffered. And more importantly, the Indian nation state hasn't tried to > build bridges between the Pandits and the Kashmiri Muslims by providing them > chances to interact with each other, and understand each other's positions. > > But then, history always has a context. And that context must be understood > as well. Why did Muslims in the valley ask for an azadi at all, if they were > so 'happy' with the Indian democracy? Because of the political games being > played with the J & K Govt, by the central govt at Delhi, in the name of > protecting 'national interests', we had to come up to such a situation in > the first place, which culminated in the rigged elections of 1987-88. And > yes, violence was wrong, but it happened because of such cases occuring > repeatedly in the name of protecting 'Kashmir'. > > Let me ask all here a simple question. At the time of independence, > Hydrebad, Junagadh and Jammu & Kashmir were incorporated into India, after > these three states didn't initially accept their inclusion into the Indian > Union. If Junagadh could have a plebiscite to ascertain whether the people > there wanted to go with Pakistan or with India, why can't Kashmir and Jammu > also have the same? I am not sure about Hydrebad as well, but that argument > does go along for there as well. > > Therefore, for you, it's a view that you were cheated by the Indian Union > which forgot to see that you are nationalistic and secular. For me, they > cheated you because they are cheaters any way. They use nationalism and > secularism only to further their own ends, and to spread their own bigotry > among the public. Wasn't secularism there anyway before it was introduced in > the Indian preamble? And there have been more riots after this inclusion of > the word 'secular' in the Indian preamble of the constitution, than were > they before this word was included, since the inception of republic in > India. > > Hence, I dont' say you shouldn't ask for justice. But it's my humble > request, to at least see now the reason that being ardent followers of > nationalism and secularism is not what gets you justice. And hence please > realize that the Indian nation state has failed you (as it repeatedly does > every day all of us, in some way or the other). And more importantly, taking > that into mind, also realize that others are humans, as much as you are, and > have some compassion among you. > > Not all Kashmiri Muslims are killers. Not all of them were terrorists or > supported that agitation. May be not all of them want azadi. But what all of > them do want, is the same as what all of you want, which is a right to life > of dignity. > > Fight for your cause. Go ahead in that case. But please stop believing that > nationalism is the solution to all your problems, or even the problem of > Kashmir. It has never been, and will never be the solution to India's > problems. It will only compound the problems of the past, and will further > bring many more among us. And secondly, not all of them are enemies, so > please start talking with them. Please interact with them. They did make > mistakes in supporting those who killed you or just remained aloof at that > time (which is a greater mistake), but times change, and one has to go ahead > with life, and if one has to do so, why not be happy and live it? > > It's not simple as I have said it. But yes, while seeking justice, is it > really impossible for Pandits to strat talking to Kashmiri Muslims? Is it > impossible to believe that they are human beings first, as much as the > Pandits, or any of us are? Is it impossible to believe that views and > beliefs contrary to those held by majority can also exist in a society? Or > is it impossible to accept the expression of those views in public? > > Or is it that for now on, Kashmiri Muslims and Kashmiri Pandits are the > enemies of each other for once and for all times? > > Regarding Panun Kashmir, I would just say one thing. I have only heard > Pandits make this claim. First of all, I believe that we outside Kashmir > have no right to decide what is good for them and what is not. Hence, any > choice of Panun Kashmir, or any 'azad' state, must be introduced only after > seeking consent from the people there, either through referendum or > plebiscite, or whatever you and others may wish to call. Just giving a macro > based statement that many people support it is not going to work in a > democratic polity like India. > > But yes, if Kashmir in an 'azad' state is going to resemble today's India > or today's Pakistan, God forbid that any 'azadi' ever takes place. > Otherwise, there would be creation of yet another disastrous nation state > which would be totally disastrous for the people there. > > Regards > > Rakesh > > From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Feb 6 18:46:43 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 13:16:43 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-87 Message-ID: <65be9bf40902060516vc6a9f1dy20809bfab5e604c5@mail.gmail.com> http://www.telegraphindia.com/1030428/asp/opinion/story_1917873.asp The Telegraph Monday, April 28, 2003 | IDENTIFICATION OVERDRIVE - DOCUMENT Extracts from Privacy and Human Rights 2002, by the Electronic Privacy Information Center, Washington DC, and Privacy International, London There was considerable discussion in the United States of America in introducing ...a national identity card scheme but no formal policy was introduced. Meanwhile noncitizens may already be tracked at border entry points and as they move within the country. A system called student and exchange visitor information system keeps track of foreign students to ensure that they are still registered and maintains a log of their addresses. The United Kingdom is proposing the implementation of "entitlement cards" in an effort to deal with immigration and illegal work, identity theft, but also supported by the fight against terrorism. Similarly, Hong Kong is planning to introduce a biometric chip identity card to verify fingerprints to authenticate travellers into China. None of the above trends are necessarily new; the novelty is the speed with which these policies gained acceptance, and in many cases, became law. ID cards are in use in one form or another in virtually all countries of the world. The type of card, its functions, and integrity vary enormously. While a number of countries have official, compulsory, national ID cards that are used for a variety of purposes, many countries do not. These include Australia, Canada, India, Ireland, New Zealand, the US and the Nordic countries. Those that do have such a card include Belgium, Egypt, France, Germany, Greece, Hong Kong, Malaysia, and South Africa. Nationwide ID systems are established for a variety of reasons. Race, politics and religion often drive the deployment of ID cards. The fear of insurgence, religious differences, immigration, or political extremism have been all too common motivators for the establishment of ID systems that aim to force undesirables in a state to register with the government, or make them vulnerable in the open without proper documents. In recent years technology has rapidly evolved to enable electronic record creation and the construction of large commercial and state databases. A national identifier contained in an ID card enables disparate information about a person that is stored in different databases to be easily linked and analyzed through data mining techniques. ID cards are also becoming "smarter" — the technology to build microprocessors the size of postage stamps and put them on wallet sized cards has become more affordable. This technology enables multiple applications such as a credit card, library card, health care card, driver's licence and government benefit programme information to be all stored on the same national ID along with a password or a biometric identifier. Governments in Finland, Malaysia, and Singapore have experimented with such "Smart" ID cards. In July 2002, the Labor government in the United Kingdom launched a six-month public consultation process on whether the United Kingdom should adopt an "entitlem-ent card" with similar features. Critics contend that such cards, especially when combined with information contained in databases, enable intrusive profiling of individuals and create a misplaced reliance on a single document, which enables precisely the type of fraud the cards are meant to eliminate. In a number of countries, these systems have been successfully challenged on constitutional privacy grounds. In 1998, the Philippine Supreme Court ruled that a national ID system violated the constitutional right to privacy. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Feb 6 18:48:59 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 13:18:59 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-88 Message-ID: <65be9bf40902060518r21237fe9j8b4831bc623816c9@mail.gmail.com> http://www.financialexpress.com/news/Govt-To-Get-Smart-On-Identity-Cards-With-Digital-Signatures/78807/ Govt To Get Smart On Identity Cards With Digital Signatures Posted: 2003-04-14 00:00:00+05:30 IST Updated: Apr 14, 2003 at 0000 hrs IST New Delhi:: To make the national identification system foolproof, the Indian government plans to use embedded digital signature technology in all national identity cards to be distributed to citizens. The technology will eliminate the risk of counterfeit cards. The ministry of home affairs is currently implementing a pilot project to distribute smart card-based national identity cards to every citizen. This card will carry relevant information like the holder's personal information, photograph, fingerprint, etc and will be useful as a measure of identification. "The digital signatures once embedded on a smart card will make it almost impossible to develop an identical fake card. The technology will facilitate the cards to be authenticated easily by matching the signature with a small device," controller of certifying authorities KN Gupta told eFE. Mr Gupta said that his office is in touch with the home ministry and is working towards inclusion of digital signatures on national identity cards. No final decision has been taken as yet, he added. The issuing authority can mark its digital signature on each card so that the same can be used for authentication whenever required. In case the national identity card is used as a multipurpose card for use as a driving licence or for health records, multiple authorities can mark their respective digital signatures. The national identity cards can also be used to carry personal digital signature by the citizen. "In fact, the Malaysian government is already implementing a similar project under which multipurpose cards are being issued to citizens," said Mr Gupta. The Malaysian government's national registration department, which is responsible for distributing paper-based identity cards, is working with a consortium of 24 financial institutions — that have come together to form a Malaysian Electronic Payment System — to execute the multipurpose card project. The new card replaces the Malaysian national identity card currently a paper document issued to every Malaysian citizen over the age of 12 years. The card also replaces the driving licence and carries passport information. The cardholder can use the card to pass through automatic gates at airport immigration. The card can also be used for non-government applications like e-purse (debit card), automated teller machine (ATM) card and a digital signature card. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Feb 6 18:52:44 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 13:22:44 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-89 Message-ID: <65be9bf40902060522r743e93a9yfa6653f36eadbefb@mail.gmail.com> http://cricket.expressindia.com/old//fulliestory.php?content_id=43919 Indian Express Tuesday, November 02, 2004 PANoramic view of delivery mechanisms My wife applied for a PAN card. Not a PAN number, which she already possesses. But a PAN card. Why do you need a PAN card if you already have a PAN number? Today is November 2, and I am about to lose a bet. Losing a bet with your spouse is always a good idea, so that doesn't bother me. What bothers me is the issue on which I have lost the best. My wife applied for a PAN card. Not a PAN number, which she already possesses. But a PAN card. Why do you need a PAN card if you already have a PAN number? Seems like a useful kind of thing to have, since PAN cards are increasingly becoming like identity cards. Various people ask for them. Certainly, Vijay Kelkar is no longer around and we don't know what's going to happen to the assorted Kelkar recommendations. However, somewhere down the line, there may be insistence on PAN cards. As long as issuing of PAN cards was with the income tax department, my wife didn't bother. But once this service was shifted to the Unit Trust of India, she decided to apply. Notice, I am deliberately using the word service. Because you are paying Rs 60 for the card. This is for people who already have a number. And since you are specifically paying money for "the new tamper proof PAN card, with several security features", this is service against a fee. There is a quid pro quo and the card should be yours as a matter of right. How long does issuing a card take? The security features aren't remarkably different from what you have on a driving licence or a credit card. Once all the other approvals are done, a driving licence is virtually instant. You get it the same day. A credit card, perhaps, takes a couple of days. If you already have a PAN number, logically, the card shouldn't therefore take more than a couple of days. But in the government, it is best to play safe. Hence, the form tells you: "The PAN card will be issued within 10 working days from the date of receipt at PAN Service Centre. However, during the first six months effective from 1st July 2003, the PAN card will be issued in 15 working days from the date of receipt at PAN Service Centre". Notice the careful use of the expression "working day" rather than day. You have no right to presume that UTI Investor Services works all the time. So, 10 to 15 working days it is. I haven't yet told you what the bet was. But before that, I need to tell you when my wife applied. Nov-ember 11, 2003. I am not making this up, the date is absolutely right. My wife is always sceptical about what the government (or if you like, the extended government) does. I tend to be a bit more optimistic and gullible. That explains the bet. I said: "You will get the PAN card within a year. The service has been outsourced now". My wife refused to believe me. We are nine days (not working days) away from that one-year deadline and the card hasn't arrived. Since I believe the government, I can only deduce that UTI hasn't had 10 (or 15) working days in an entire year. • In any service delivery, you would exp-ect a system of registering complaints • Ask any poor person what it takes to get a birth or death certificate • A general I-card instead of multiple cards is what is really needed If you have a problem, you should complain. As my wife indeed did. After all, what are the telephone numbers on the form for? Once she got through, she was told the PAN card had been printed. Unfortunately, her PAN number has an "O" in it. By mistake, the card printed a zero instead. The problem would be rectified. Fair enough. But that was exactly nine months ago. Evidently, a country that invented the zero has great difficulty in relinquishing zeroes! In any service delivery, you would expect a system of formally registering complaints. And there should be a system whereby UTI shows this register of complaints to finance ministry, so that finance can keep track of UTI's complaint redressal system. If that's not satisfactory, the outsourcing should go somewhere else. To the private sector. After all, once you already have a PAN number, there should be no great secrecy involved in printing the card. However, that would be expecting too much. No doubt finance occasionally asks UTI how the outsourcing is going on and no doubt UTI Investor Services tells North Block that a fabulous job is being done. That's the reason I shudder about some of the things the government proposes. Look at it this way. The PAN card doesn't really matter that much to my wife. She has her PAN number and other ways of establishing her identity. Consider, at random, the proposed National Employment Guarantee Act and labour ministry's draft on this. "The registering authority specified under this Act shall prepare and maintain such register or registers in such manner and issue such identity cards or pass books as may be prescribed". Eliot said the bare facts are birth, copulation and death. Let's leave copulation out of it. But ask any poor person what it takes to get a birth or death certificate. Ask him or her what it takes to get the various other certificates or quasi-identity cards needed between the activities of birth and death. Life is somewhat different for those who have access to gazetted officers compared to those who have not. At least the Rs 60 my wife forked out was transparent payment and no further monetary compensation was needed. The bribes paid by the poor are non-transparent and arbitrary. In addition, for the same service, bribes paid by the poor are paradoxically more than bribes paid by the relatively rich. Six years ago, we did a Delhi-based sample survey for ration cards. Trying to quantify the illegal payment. The average for relatively rich people (who have driving licences, passports) was between Rs 150-200. But that for relatively poor people (who have no other means of identification) was between Rs 600-800. The data may be dated, but I don't think the thrust of the contention will have changed. The generic issue we always come back to is that of a general I-card system, instead of multiple quasi-identity cards required for multiple purposes. Shouldn't be too difficult to implement something like that, provided we accept the premise that outsourcing has to be genuine. Instead of the government outsourcing to an extended government organisation like UTI. From elkamath at yahoo.com Fri Feb 6 22:19:42 2009 From: elkamath at yahoo.com (lalitha kamath) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 08:49:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Driven down by debt, Dubai expats give new meaning to long-stay car park Message-ID: <953889.23118.qm@web53606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> February 5, 2009 Driven down by debt, Dubai expats give new meaning to long-stay car park Sonia Verma in Dubai For many expatriate workers in Dubai it was the ultimate symbol of their tax-free wealth: a luxurious car that few could have afforded on the money they earned at home. Now, faced with crippling debts as a result of their high living and Dubai's fading fortunes, many expatriates are abandoning their cars at the airport and fleeing home rather than risk jail for defaulting on loans. Police have found more than 3,000 cars outside Dubai's international airport in recent months. Most of the cars - four-wheel drives, saloons and "a few" Mercedes - had keys left in the ignition. Some had used-to-the-limit credit cards in the glove box. Others had notes of apology attached to the windscreen. "Every day we find more and more cars," said one senior airport security official, who did not want to be named. "Christmas was the worst - we found more than two dozen on a single day." When the market collapsed and the emirate's once-booming economy started to slow down, many expatriates were left owning several homes and unable to pay the mortgages without credit. "There were a lot of people living the high life, investing in real estate and a lifestyle they couldn't afford," one senior banker said. Under Sharia, which prevails in Dubai, the punishment for defaulting on a debt is severe. Bouncing a check, for example, is punishable with jail. Those who flee the emirate are known as skips. The abandoned cars underscore a worrying trend. Five years ago the Emir, Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, embarked on an ambitious plan to transform Dubai into a hub for business and tourism. A building boom fuelled double-digit growth, with thousands of Westerners arriving every day, eager to cash in on the emirate's promise of easy living and wealth. Many Westerners invested in Dubai's skyrocketing real estate market, buying and reselling homes before building was even complete. But, as the recession took effect, property and financial companies made thousands of workers redundant and banks tightened lending. Construction companies have delayed or cancelled projects and tourism is slowing. There are increasing signs that the foreigners who once flocked to Dubai are leaving. "There is no way of tracking actual numbers, but the anecdotal evidence is overwhelming. Dubai is emptying out," said a Western diplomat. International schools are having to be flexible on fees as expatriate parents run out of cash. Louise, a single mother from Britain, said that her son's school had allowed her to pay a partial fee until she found a new job after her redundancy in December. "According to the headmaster, a lot of people had come into the school saying they had lost their jobs so the school was trying to be a bit more flexible," she said. Most of the emirate's banks are not affiliated with British financial institutions, so those who flee do not have to worry about creditors. Their abandoned cars are eventually sold off by the banks at weekly auctions. Those recently advertised include BMWs, Porsches and Mercedes. Simon Goldsmith, a spokesman for the British Embassy in Dubai, said that that there were approximately 100,000 Britons living in Dubai last year. However, the embassy has no way of tracking how many have fled back to the UK. "We've heard stories, but when somebody makes that kind of decision, they generally keep it to themselves," he said. Police have issued warrants against owners of the deserted cars. Those who return risk arrest at the airport. Heading home 3.62 million expatriates in Dubai 864,000 nationals 8% population decline predicted this year, as expatriates leave 1,500 visas cancelled every day in Dubai 62% of homes occupied by expatriates 60% fall in property values predicted 50% slump in the price of luxury apartments on Palm Jumeirah 25% reduction in luxury spending among UAE expatriates Sources: arabbusiness.com ; Times database Related Links . With no oil, desert economy is built on shifting sand . Dubai millionaires' beach becomes cesspool . Dubai lifts veil of secrecy to assuage fears Cross posted from Debate DEBATE at debate.kabissa.org ______________________________ From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Feb 7 01:41:22 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 20:11:22 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath In-Reply-To: References: <006701c98369$3b8cae90$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40901310944i5dfd0c1cpb9da416014037dab@mail.gmail.com> <005901c985c0$1e425b10$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40902030231p62cc4e76t2610d577e6ab39a@mail.gmail.com> <000901c985ef$0ff34950$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40902030348k5f16002by866cd3ba21a41081@mail.gmail.com> <002401c9868b$eda724a0$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40902050342m6e45e30cs16694b75cdd28a29@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40902061211i1fc1d055qc1d4e2ea332c208f@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh Thank you for your response. I agree with you however to a certain extent we cannot just point our fingers at -development- only to suggest that this was the sole reason for Shivraj Singh Chuhan's win in the recently concluded elections at MP. There has to be a host of other factors. There has to be a whole gamut of reasons. I am also quite certain that when it comes down to assessing the performance of a public scheme in a way which quantitatively informs us whether that scheme was successful or not; one can safely make an assumption, especially, with respect to a country like India, that, corruption, nepotism, red tapism etc must have played a role in making such a scheme, a resounding failure. But I am not interested in analysing the success or failure of this or that scheme in an actual sense in this thread because I think, following from Bipin's first mail in this thread the issue at hand is surely that of perception. It was in this regard that I submitted by the way of an example, that in direct contrast to Modi was this guy who appeared to be cool, calm and composed. Furthermore he fought and won an election wherein classic BJP election issues were conspicuous by their absence. Modi is perceived as someone who has over the years cultivated a disregard for authority, for constitution and for any sense of basic decency, especially towards the weak. In his rhetoric he has constantly projected himself as someone who is capable of dealing with terror. Yet facts show otherwise. For instance during recent Mumbai terror attacks we saw how easy it was for Kasab and party to sail past through Modi's nose. The Gujarat coast line, which was used by Kasab and his men for the final leg of their journey, was virtually unguarded. I do not think, it would wrong to argue that had Modi been true to his words Mumbai terror attacks would not have been the same. Warm regards Taha On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 11:57 AM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Taha (and all) > > I think while I am not sure whether Shivraj Singh Chauhan actually won on > the plank of development at all, I am also not sure whether the development > which was being portrayed by him and his govt, did actually take place on > the ground at all or not, leaving aside its' impact on development. Govt. > figures aside, there have been cases as also perceptions that many cases > like NREGA and central govt. sponsored schemes were not being implemented > properly in the state. And corruption was a major issue against the > incumbent BJP govt., the foremost of which was the corruption cases in the > health ministry, and also those against the CM and his wife known as the > 'dumper scandal'. > > Secondly. Having said all this, Shivraj Singh Chauhan is a contrasting > personality compared to Modi, and personally looking at the coalitional > politics of India, where one wants a PM who is less controversial and more > acceptable to all, Shivraj seems to be a better figure compared to Modi, > though he may never rise up to such a case at all. This does not mean I > support him, or endorse him for the post. There are other better contenders > even now in the fray, as well as possibly those whom I and others don't know > as of now. But with the kind of coalitional politics we have at the centre, > who knows what may happen. > > What I like most about Shivraj is the way he conducts himself in public, > even in his election campaigns. He never mentioned terrorism in his election > speeches at all, though he did criticize Congress on many issues, which is a > normal phenomenon. Similarly, there were campaigns in which he went to > villages, telling old women, "Agar humse koi bhool ho gayee ho ya galti hui > ho, to maaf kar dena," (If me or my govt, have made any mistake or forgotten > something, please forgive us). These statements may be a gimmick, but I > don't think Modi has ever gone on and said such kind of statements in his > election campaign. And this entirely reflects the difference in the two > personalities itself. > > The statements could not be more different and contrasting. On one hand, > Modi was concentrating on 'mout ka saudagar' and 'Delhi Sultanate' ruling > India; on the other Shivraj was putting forth his achievements on > bijli-sadak-pani and contrasting them with Congress rule. Infact, Modi when > campaigning in Madhya Pradesh, was forced after a talk with Shivraj (as > insiders say, though not publicized), to campaign in the same way. And his > speeches turned out to be less about gutter politics and more about debates > on development and issues like corruption and reach of the system of > governance to the public. > > And last but not the least. Shivraj allowed other leaders to plan their > campaigns as they felt comfortable. In Gujarat, Modi planned campaigns for > most of the leaders. That also reflects a difference in their mentalities. > And probably, it could well be a difference in the way they were brought up > as children and in the party itself. And may be, it may be a difference in > the ground realities of Gujarat and Madhya Pradesh. > > Regards > > Rakesh > > From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sat Feb 7 11:07:27 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 11:07:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Free Baluchistan: Dreams of An Enslaved People Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902062137i45622d99j2cf26210d832bed8@mail.gmail.com> "Pakistan rogue army at its best" http://mustikhan1.blogspot.com/ *Don't cry for me Baluchistan: bride, groom among 13 killed* ** It's like "Don't cry for me Baluchistan"-- women, children, young old -- no one is being spared in the scorched earth policy.. Pakistan army appears to have gone berserk in the area-wise largest and resource-rich province where they have killed a Baluch bride and groom on their wedding day. Pakistan said four people were killed, but the Asian Human Rights Commission, that has been monitoring human rights violations in the blood-soaked province, has said at least 13 people were killed. Due to the ongoing military operations in Balochistan, members of the FC have been given the authority to shoot at sight, any person of suspicion, without further ado. Only a day before on February 2, some unknown persons, riding motorcycles had attacked a check post of the near Dera Bugti Town. It is reliably believed that the indiscriminate shooting at an innocent wedding party -- killing 13 and seriously injuring 21 persons -- was in retaliation of the previous day incident. Source: ahrchk.net Most of the news from Baluchistan is strictly censored as many of the world's key news organization do not have sufficient staff posted in Quetta. An earlier rport had put the death toll at only four. A bride and groom were among at least four people killed in a shootout at a wedding party in Pakistan's restive Baluchistan province, a local official said Tuesday. The incident took place in Dashtgoran village, 18 kilometres (11 miles) east of Dera Bugti town in the gas-rich province bordering Afghanistan and Iran, and where a regional insurgency has killed hundreds since 2004. Source: arabtimesonline.com The Frontier Constabulary responsible for the civilian deaths is the same Pakistani force that has helped the Taliban and Al Qaeda launch attacks on US and NATO soldiers in Afghanistan. The Baluch allege Pakistan military and para-military forces, who expressly believe in "Jihad in the name of Allah", are sheltering Osama bin Laden and Mullah Omar, among other international jihadists. *Mumbai Terror Outfit's teachings exposed* A leading member of the Pakistan civil society has exposed the war-mongering ideology of the Jamaat ud Daawa, or JuD, the umbrella organization of the Lashkar-i-Toiba or Army of Pure—the terror outfit responsible for the Mumbai mayhem in November that left 200 people dead and over 300 injured. Dr. Rubina Saigol of Action Aid Pakistan has expressed her disgust at the teachings of the jihadist outfit that had tried to show a softer face to the world immediately after the Mumbai attacks by inviting journalists to its headquarters in Muridke, Punjab. The United Nations Security Council on December 11 imposed sanctions on the Pakistan-based terror outfit and declared four of its top leaders Dawaa chief Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, suspected Mumbai terror mastermind Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, Haji Muhammad Ashraf and Zaki-ur-Bahaziq as global terrorists. Saigol posted her views on a progressive Pakistani public yahoogroups emailing list called SPN, with nearly 5,000 members. She was responding to the views of another liberal Pakistani editor, Omar R. Quraishi, editorial page editor of largest circulation English newspaper The News International. In his article, Quraishi wrote: "Regrettably, this tendency to act superior than the rest of the world, ignore one's own warts and what not and to blame the rest of the world for all that ills the Islamic world is something that is found in many ordinary Pakistanis as well. Whether they have been influenced by organisations such as the JuD or whether the organisations have been influenced by the society that they have grown up in is not the issue but rather that the value system and worldview of the JuD and the LeT is in fact something that a lot of Pakistanis share -- particularly the view that a Hindu/Zionist/ American conspiracy of sorts has been put in motion to annihilate the Muslim world." India still has plans to bomb the Muridke headquarters of the terror outfit and many people in the renegade province of Baluchistan believe New Delhi would be fully justified in doing so. Even Indian Muslims were calling for tit-for-tat against Pakistan's rogue spy service Inter Services Intelligence and elements within the country's omnipotent army--the fourth largest in the world and armed with nuclear weapons. "The attacks were India's 911. The terror infrastructure has to be brought down. If the Congress Party will not act, it will lose the elections," the scion of a leading Muslim family from Mumbai said on a request of anonymity. Saigol concurring with Quraishi's view on Jamaat ud Daawa gave some glaring examples from textbooks "that they distribute to their students and which are not available openly in the market." She added the books are published by Jamaat ud Daawa press and are given to students free of charge. "The Mullahs [Islamic cleric] say that the books are meant to 'inspire' and to inculcate a truly Islamic spirit among students and to enable them to view Islam as a complete way of life, rather than as a set of rituals," Saigol said. "Through these textbooks children are given inspirational ideas and introduced to the objectives of Islam as seen by the Mullah. They are thus introduced the glorious Muslim past to inspire them to violence to re-create the past." She said Jamaat ud Daawa argues that Muslims alone have right to rule the world and are allowed to kill infidels that stand in the way of Islam and this is being taught in textbooks used by the Jamaat ud Daawa. Saigol said Daawa glorifies violence and hate and teaches the new version of alphabets in which children learn Bandook for Bai, Talwar for Tai, Tank for Ttai, jehaz for jeem and khanjar for khai, rocket for rai and tayyara for To-ay. [In English, all this will translate into G for gun, S for sword, T for tank, J for jet, K for knife, R for rocket and A for airplane.] "In the Urdu textbook, children are told that infidels are cowards by nature and when a holy warrior attacks them, they scream with terror and fear," she said. "Mujahideen are glorified as being on a mission from Allah and they are superheroes that kill Hindus and make infidels cower in fear," she said, referring from the pages of the textbook. She deplored games are organized around violence and killing and the children play with guns and learn to shoot at balloons, adding they play guerilla games of ambushing infidels, and in one story, a ten year old boy kills hundreds of Russians in Afghanistan . She said poems and stories are taught about young boys that wage jihad and children read fictitious letters from jihadis killed in battle. "If I am killed in battle, celebrate", reads one letter to a mother and sister in the seventh grade textbook, and then admonishes, "Make sure you conceal your body and never wear perfume." Obscurantists among Muslims call this decadent and sexist practice hijab. "India is presented as an enemy and Saudi Arabia as a best friend. Kashmir appears as Pakistani territory forcibly snatched by Hindus and Pakistan as a country created only for Muslims." Saigol said children are instructed to mercilessly beat up non-Muslims and are told in the second grade textbook that every student should become a holy warrior and that they should be willing to lay down their lives for the great nuclear power that is Pakistan. Quraishi notes: "Another (JuD) post is devoted to Mother's Day, or rather to equating it more or less with paganism. In fact, another post is on how Muslims should beware of doing actions that make them equal to kaafirs [infidels] -- such as celebrating their holy days and festivals. Also, it is clearly mentioned that non-Muslims are kaafirs and should not be even befriended." Even after passage of a month, Pakistan was still in self-denial about the identity of the Mumbai terrorists. Though Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari initially admitted his country's non-state actors were involved in the Mumbai attacks, under the rogue army's instructions he has made a U-turn since then and said recently there were no solid proofs the lone surviving terrorist Ajmal Amir Kasab is a Pakistani national. Pakistan's leading English newspaper DAWN--owned by a cousin of Hussain Haroon, Pakistan's permanent representative to the United Nations-- recently carried an interview of Kasab's father from the Punjab town of Faridkot, confirming his son's identity. Baring one, all the 10 Mumbai terrorists were from Punjab, stronghold of the Pakistan army. From tapio at translocal.net Fri Feb 6 15:04:43 2009 From: tapio at translocal.net (Tapio Makela) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 15:04:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Fwd: DAC09 - After media: embodiment and context CFP open References: Message-ID: <6893EC4D-E5A2-441A-AB5C-498181D13E55@translocal.net> DAC09 - After media: embodiment and context Begin forwarded message: > Dear All, > > DAC09 will be held on the campus of the University of California > Irvine, > for three and a half days in mid-December 2009 > > The Themes for this iteration of DAC: > > * Embodiment and performativity > * Mobile/locative/situated/wearable practices > * Software/platform studies > * Environment/ sustainability/ climate change > * Interdisciplinary pedagogy > * Cognition and Creativity > * Sex and sexuality > > I'm very pleased to inform you all that the website for DAC09 is now > up, at > > http://dac09.uci.edu > > DAC09 is now accepting paper proposals, and inviting offers of > participation in other aspects of the conference. > > On the site you will find links to: > * our online submission environment, > * our online registration page, > and other details... > > The site and the conference are at this point a work in progress. > New and updated material will be added regularly. > > Thanks to our sponsors, theme leaders, and all who have been > involved in this process so far, especially Ward Smith. > > Please take this opportunity to publicise the site in your > communities. > > I look forward to seeing you at DAC09. > > Simon Penny > > -- > > > > Simon Penny, Professor of Arts and Engineering - University of > California, Irvine. > http://www.ace.uci.edu/penny > > Director, DAC09 (Digital Arts and Culture Conference, December, 2009) > http://dac09.uci.edu > > University of California Council on Research 'Humanist at Large' > > Founding Director - Arts Computation Engineering (ACE) > interdisciplinary graduate program. > http://www.ace.uci.edu > Tapio Mäkelä AHRC Research Fellow, Creative Technology The University of Salford | Research Centre for Art & Design Centenary Building | Peru Street Greater Manchester M3 6EQ, UK e-mail: t.makela at salford.ac.uk tapio at translocal.net http://www.translocal.net/tapio uk tel: +44 750 785 6502 fi tel: +358 40 722 3949 skype: tapio.makela aim: tapmak at mac.com -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Feb 7 22:45:25 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 17:15:25 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-90 Message-ID: <65be9bf40902070915h2f40f2b0h29dd5712906c7e45@mail.gmail.com> http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Investors%92-trip-to-harassment:-multiple-ID-numbers----/20896/ Indian Express > Edits & Columns > Sucheta Dalal Posted: Jan 15, 2007 at 0252 hrs IST Investors' trip to harassment: multiple ID numbers Last week, we pointed to the mindless multiplicity of paperwork because each financial regulator is separately implementing know your customer (KYC) rules under the Money Laundering Act. This is causing needless hardship to ordinary people. In a week when the Sensex has jumped over 700 points, it would be naïve to expect that investors' paper-work problems will catch the attention of Government policy makers. But the hurdles to acquiring valid identification proof warrant discussion before the insurance regulator, the Telecom regulator (already required for mobile phones and CAS connections) and the electricity regulator also order another round of identification cards by threatening to block services. S. Anand, an investor, makes some pertinent points in his letter to M. Damodaran, chairman of the Securities and Exchange Board of India (Sebi). He says, ordinarily a citizen would not quibble with the idea of obtaining a MIN (mutual fund identification number), which promises to dispense with the need for repeated submission of identification documents. But it has turned bizarre because Sebi made the same promise when is launched MAPIN (a biometric identification for all investors) that was abandoned after thousands of people had already obtained it. Anand says, "In a country that calls itself the IT capital of the world, is it not possible to simply convert the UIN/MAPIN to a MIN? Should not a rose by any name smell just as sweet?" He is absolutely right. But that would have required National Securities Depository Ltd (NSDL) to share the MAPIN database with rival Central Depository Services Ltd (CDSL), which is creating the MIN database for Association of Mutual Funds of India (Amfi). If Sebi had owned the data collected for MAPIN, it could have been shared with AMFI. Acquiring the MAPIN was a story in itself. Anand says, "I distinctly remember standing in a mile long queue at the fag end of 2004 to get myself fingerprinted so that I could be allotted a UIN/MAPIN. My 73 year old, senior citizen father spent many hours on a congested road, dodging moving traffic, under a blinding sun, so he could abide by that Sebi diktat, at great physical cost, not to mention the fiscal one of funding the procedure. Soon thereafter, we were informed that this compliance was not essential". Well, MAPIN was hurriedly introduced by a Sebi chairman hoping his term would be extended and was rolled out without adequate service centres or consideration for the aged and infirm. A committee later said that it was also needlessly expensive. Security of information collected by the service agents is another concern for Anand, but there is no clarity on that issue. The facts are that MAPIN was created by NSDL and MIN by a CDSL subsidiary. After a detailed inspection of their systems, Sebi had recorded serious problems with operations and procedures of both depositories and even recommended management changes. Sebi's inspection reports are not in public domain, but it is locked in several bruising battles with NSDL in various appellate forums. Further, although both depositories are technically under Sebi's supervision, it had absolutely no power to regulate or even inspect their non-depository operations. This would include the extensive Tax Information Network set up by NSDL, the database of IT professionals that it is creating for Nasscom through a subsidiary company and now the MIN database created for Amfi by CDSL's subsidiary. Even PAN cards for the Income Tax department are being issued by capital market intermediaries but there is no clarity on who will regulate any of these from the perspective of data security or identity theft and who has the power to initiate action in case of wrong doing. This writer had raised concerns about the lack of clarity about depository regulation a couple of years ago. But the Finance Ministry seems to be busy basking in the euphoria of a three-year monster bull run to worry about the issue. As far as MIN is concerned, V.G. Patel of Ahmedabad points out how it is "proving to be a nuisance for HUF (Hindu Undivided Family) and Partnerships". HUFs, are being asked to submit a PAN, bank passbook and registration number as proof of identity. But HUFs do not need registration and an income tax assessment order confirms their formal existence. But this is not acceptable to service agents. Partnership firms face the same dilemma. Since no decision has been made with regard to their representations, they are currently in limbo. Gyan Swarup Gupta, a retired senior citizen shares a third problem. Neither he nor his wife is a taxpayer. He inherited a small number of shares that he held in physical form. Since Sebi made dematerialisation mandatory for secondary market transactions, he opened a demat account. Now the account is frozen until he gets himself a PAN number. He wonders why he must be forced to get a PAN card when he may only ever want to exit and dispose his share holding. Will his voice be heard? S.P.V. Ramanathan's problem is slightly different. He is being fined Rs 100 a day, inspite of submitting a PAN card. The name on his PAN card and his trading account is S.P.V..Ramanathan, while the NSDL website has expanded his name by spelling his initials. This extends his name to 25-30 characters that usually fall out of the row of check boxes. Ramanathan says, "I come from an area where investing in shares is as old as the BSE and a majority of investors are facing this problem." He has also done his homework and points to a circular (IMRD/DoP/Dep/Cir-09/064.8) that allows PAN card proof in such situations, subject to verification and documentary evidence. But getting his contention accepted is a fight in itself. Multiple identity proof options provided by data collection agencies often dwindles because of sloppy entry of names and addresses by public sector utilities. We need to pause and get some basics right before rushing to modernise systems and procedures. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Feb 7 22:47:53 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 17:17:53 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-91 Message-ID: <65be9bf40902070917s6e9c9a88gf0bfa5af929e6fa6@mail.gmail.com> http://www.business-standard.com/india/storypage.php?autono=333627 Business Standard Saturday, Feb 07, 2009 Sreelatha Menon: Not so smart after all Sreelatha Menon / New Delhi September 07, 2008, 1:54 IST India could end up spending Rs 5,000 crore on smart cards for pensions and health insurance, not all of which 'speak' to each other. The Rajasthan government plans to distribute 5 million smart cards, each the size of your normal debit/credit card, as part of a financial inclusion scheme called Bhamasha. The cards have Rs 1,500 of credit pre-loaded in them, and can be cashed at the nearest Punjab National Bank branch. A lakh such cards have been issued and the process of identifying beneficiaries and getting their details (name, fingerprints, etc) and verifying them is on. The card also has fields which can be used for other schemes in future, like PDS, pensions and so on. So, theoretically, the card can be used for other schemes as well, such as the central government's Rashtriya Swasthya Bima Yojana (RSBY) under which a total of 300 million smart cards are to be issued (to 60 million families) across the country over the next five years. The RSBY card allows beneficiaries to get cashless treatment worth Rs 30,000 each year at various public and private sector pre-specified hospitals — in return for a premium of Rs 30 (the rest of the premium is paid by the central and state governments). While states like Assam, Tripura and Delhi have already rolled out the scheme, Gujarat, Rajasthan, Kerala and West Bengal are readying to issue them. Though it's early days yet, a plethora of similar smart card-schemes are being planned by various state governments as well. All told, when complete, the schemes hold the promise of completely transforming how the government will deliver services/subsidies to the target audience. Instead of ration shop food, for instance, fixed amounts of money can just be put into the State Bank of India, say, and the bank can then transfer the exact funds needed for residents in Jhumritalalya in Bihar. Ditto for the labour payments for job work done under the NREGA. The Andhra government, for instance, is in the process of distributing biometric smart cards for NREGA payments and a successful pilot programme has been running for a while in a few villages in Karimnagar and Warangal districts. Orissa and Karnataka are also in the process of doing the same. While costs vary depending on the volumes, by and large, the process costs around Rs 100-120 per person. The problem, however, is that the smart card dream is fast deteriorating into a Tower of Babel with, believe it or not, the cards not designed to 'talk' to each other. A good example of this, and the sheer waste involved in the programme, is what happened with the Rajasthan Bhamasha cards and the central government's RSBY. Since the RSBY was to be implemented in Rajasthan anyway and through smart cards as well, the Rajasthan government asked the central government to implement the scheme in the state using its cards. Logically, there is no reason why the Rajasthan cards cannot be used, according to Vijay Mahajan, chairman and managing director of Basix which, along with IL&FS, is responsible for distributing the cards in Rajasthan — it has enough fields for the RSBY required data to be fed in, apart from the data required by the Rajasthan government. According to Mahajan, the problem lies in the fact that there hasn't been a technical working group which has laid down clear standards that everyone putting out smart cards follows. If such a group had been set up, for instance, there would be set protocols that would allow different cards to be 'read' by different programmes in the same way, for instance, most computer software can read files created in other software as well. So, logically, people living in Rajasthan should be able to get their Rs 1,500 from the Punjab National Bank branch and also be able to use this card to get treatment worth Rs 30,000 from an Apollo Hospital, say, in the region. Yet, the central government refused to accept the Rajasthan cards and said the RSBY would not be implemented through these cards. So, when the RSBY is finally implemented in Rajasthan, another lot of new smart cards will be issued, immediately doubling the cost of issue. If there are six pan-Indian schemes being implemented for 300 million people, this will cost Rs 18,000 crore instead of just Rs 3,000 crore for a single and well-designed card with all schemes operating on the same card. Worse, the cards are even locked into certain banks. The Rajasthan cards, for instance, are locked into the Punjab National Bank software and, right now, government officials there are trying to see how other banks, such as the State Bank of India can be used for the scheme. In other words, standards haven't been set so that different cards issued can be used by different banks. Interestingly, the home ministry was, at one point, planning to issue National ID cards, but nothing has come of this. In an ideal situation, this should have been the parent card with additional fields for pensions, NREGA payments, financial inclusion schemes and so on, and the National Informatics Centre or the Ministry of Information Technology should have laid out standards to ensure this card was compatible with other schemes. Instead, as is happening now, each department/state is coming out with its own card. (The food ministry, it appears, may however, refrain from issuing its own card and may piggyback on the home ministry one.) Fortunately, all may still not be lost. According to Mahajan, the architecture of cards is such that the only real difference is where the data is stored and how it is stored. As Jagdish Rajpurohit, general secretary of Smart Card Forum of India, puts it, 'Interoperability is an issue which players have to decide. Technically, the smart cards are interoperable as they speak the same language.' According to Purohit, the problem stems from the fact that users, such as banks, just don't want to share data. And until this happens, the problem of multiple cards instead of one or two, and of them not being able to talk to each other will remain. Rishi Gupta, President and CFO of Fino which was the architect of RSBY says that while the NREGP cards are built using a JAWA platform, the RHBY cards are built using a SCOSTA platform. Gupta says there is no national policy as such on the use of a common standard. That has to come if confusion has to be avoided. If SCOSTA is to become the national platform or national smart language then all the other cards would have to be reissued in that language. There is no other option for now, says Gupta. So it is over to the Government now to announce a national language for smart cards or see the country's smart initiatives collapse like a house of cards. From kalakamra at gmail.com Sun Feb 8 01:51:36 2009 From: kalakamra at gmail.com (shaina a) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 01:51:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Announcement - Pad.ma Engagement Message-ID: <33eee40c0902071221u67de4bb4q65ddea2b3bc16a7d@mail.gmail.com> Dear all. We take great pleasure in inviting you to a day-long engagement with Pad.ma. Day: Monday, February, 16, 2009. Time: 11:am to 7pm Location: "Who Are We?" hall - inside the Discovery of India exhibition, First Floor, Nehru Centre, Dr. Annie Besant Road, Worli, Mumbai - 400018. Featuring: Agaaz-Akanksha - Bombay Ayisha Abraham - Bangalore Desire Machine Collective - Guwahati/Shillong GBGB Andolan (NAPM) - Bombay Jan Gerber and Sebastian Lütgert - Berlin Kaushik Bhaumik - Bombay Lawrence Liang -Bangalore Nida Ghouse - Bombay Nilanjan Bhattarcharya - Calcutta Priya Sen - Delhi Ranu Ghosh - Calcutta Sadanand Menon - Chennai Sanjay Kak- Delhi For the past year, we (Oil21 from Berlin, the Alternative Law Forum from Bangalore, and three organisations from Bombay: Majlis, Point of View and ChitraKarKhana/CAMP) have been working on various aspects of the online archive, http://pad.ma. At the moment Pad.ma contains some 150 hours of video and over 92,500 annotations (text entries). We see the Pad.ma archive as a way of opening up images, meanings and effects that are present in video footage and its production process: resources that conventions of editing and viewing have tended to suppress. This in a way, is its traditional archiving function. At the same time, Pad.ma responds to the invitation and challenge of a landscape beyond "the film" as the desired end-product of this medium, and beyond youtube as its default online repository. Filmmakers and others are already engaged in many forms of presentation, interpretation, and the combination of images and ideas. Pad.ma suggests some specific new relations between images and text, production and commentary, online and offline, visibility and possibility. It proposes a few new ways to write about and discuss documentary film practice, ways to base academic work on video sources, and more generally, ways to still care for something that has become "democratic". All of these claims, ofcourse, will be tested in Pad.ma's new phase. In March this year, Pad.ma will be opened up to external contributions. As a lead-up to this, we invited a number of "users": independent filmmakers, artists, activists, researchers, students, scholars, and enthusiasts to contribute their own material into pad.ma, or traverse the archive and explore its ways. On the 16th of February, we are having a day-long series of presentations and discussions with this group. We hope you will join us and take part, to understand the activities over the past year, and to help us plan the road ahead. Looking forwards. with love, pad.ma group Who are we: altlawforum.org camputer.org chitrakarkhana.net majlisbombay.org oil21.org pointofview.org From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Feb 8 11:00:52 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 11:00:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70902060407p35027e6t69af5c80fb04919e@mail.gmail.com> References: <776819.99479.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <47e122a70902030616o735a281dn72f781916ebe25d0@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902030841h46c5c975rcf2c546473c869b7@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70902052042x1f05a1a0j5433882c67f6c8ed@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70902060407p35027e6t69af5c80fb04919e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Pawan ji I am sorry to have taken this long to answer, but answer I had to, for there are certain notions which have to be cleared here. First of all, in India, for majority of the areas, if a rigged election takes place, in certain cases people may come out on the streets to demand a re-election, but certainly they won't come out on the streets to demand that they be given a separate nation. The reasons are two. For first, no state in India, by and large, except Kashmir, has witnessed massively rigged elections on a scale, where any region within the state too has witnessed rigging to turn the scales in favor of the ruled. Secondly, even if this were so, people would fight for re-election because the people living there would have accepted that they are 'Indians'. Kashmiri Muslims haven't accepted that. The reason is that at the time of independence, they had supported Sheikh Abdullah, not India or Jawaharlal Nehru. Secondly. Who says I don't accept that there are some Muslims in this country who would like this country to become an 'Islamic' republic. But there are also Hindus in this country who would like India to become a 'Hindu rashtra'. And I am against both. And therefore, I am in a dilemma to believe that religion is something which is ensuring that people secede away from India. If what you say about Muslim dominated areas is true, then I would also add that regions in Gujarat are also seceding from India (which was supposed to be a secular, democratic and tolerant republic) to 'Hindu rashtra'. And ironically, there are 'borders' in Gujarat, in the city of Ahmedabad, where on one side one has multi-storeyed flats where Hindus live, and on the other side we have Muslims living in slums. What about that? Isn't that a secession from India and the ideas on which it was supposed to be built? Is that because of Hinduism? I won't say religion is responsible for this. But yes, political instrumentation of religion in a very negative sense to divide people can be responsible for this. And having again said this, in Kashmir, the problem is more about human right violations and about life of dignity, which the Kashmiri Muslim think can be obtained only through independence. Religion could be used as an instrument to further this objective, but even without religion, they would have been fighting for it anyway. Does special status mean that we can do anything with the people of that state? Suppose, for example, if we give special status to Bihar, does it mean that the Army and the CRPF have the right to have sex with any woman of Bihar, as they please, even forcibly? Does it give them the right to have local thugs take over the responsibility of providing law and order for the people at large, instead of the police? Is that what special status means? If it does, please I beg of the Indian nation state not to give special status to any region in India. Finally. About referendum. Just because Uttarakhand and Jharkhand, or even Chhatisgarh didn't face referendum, doesn't mean that Kashmir should not face referendum. Infact, if I may say so, it was wrong on the part of the Indian govt to have formed the three provinces without even undertaking referendum on the ground level. As I see it, the three provinces have been created only to further the cause of those elites, living in the cities of the respective states, who couldn't get noticed in the larger states of which they were a part. And a referendum would have ensured that the right results were out. I equally feel that therefore these regions also deserve a referendum even now. Hence, for me, Kashmir deserves referendum. And also, two wrongs don't make a right. Have a referendum in all these states. The original states were created on linguistic basis, only to ensure that riots based on language didn't take place.Some were created for administrative convenience. Now, to say that these are not administratively suitable, one should test these claims. And what better than going for a referendum. That's my stand in response to your questions. Regards Rakesh From prayas.abhinav at gmail.com Sun Feb 8 13:00:11 2009 From: prayas.abhinav at gmail.com (Prayas Abhinav) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 13:00:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] CALL FOR PROPOSALS: Seeking designs for a mobile cultural space Message-ID: <825bb7b00902072330l21ddc2bcg549a5b3f317a2b66@mail.gmail.com> Dear Reader-list, Some of you might find this CALL FOR PROPOSALS interesting, prayas ---- CitySpinning has opened a competition for designs of a mobile cultural space in the form of a human powered vehicle which is light, configurable, collapsible, extensible and made with grown or recyclable materials as far as possible. The competition is a part of the POROUS CITY project, which is an effort of seeking out alternative cultural spaces. Spaces which are living,‭ are in the midst of us,‭ ‬are textured with inconsistency, are more open,‭ ‬welcoming and approachable.‭ The complete call is at: http://cityspinning.org/porouscity/. Links (for inspiration) of other such projects, submission guidelines and details about the prize and constraints are all up on the site. Do participate in this competition and encourage you friends to do so too. Team-participation is ok, multiple submissions are welcome. DEADLINE: MARCH 15, 2009 URL: http://cityspinning.org/porouscity/ ABOUT CITYSPINNING and EARLIER PROJECTS: http://cityspinning.org INSPIRATION (links to other projects which deal with mobility, cultural spaces, human powered vehicles, modular structures, light-weight structures and other related pursuits.): http://cityspinning.org/porouscity/inspiration/ -- Prayas Abhinav http://prayas.in From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sun Feb 8 17:46:44 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 17:46:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice In-Reply-To: References: <776819.99479.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <47e122a70902030616o735a281dn72f781916ebe25d0@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902030841h46c5c975rcf2c546473c869b7@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902050842v54ffae3sdbc9a54615562019@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690902080416j59daa2dcld8ac629b8f7a8ae4@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh, >From Wikepedia knowledge you have now yet again moved to another part known as the propaganda of 'English media'. I wonder how much Yasin Malik can even read to have gained such drastic transformation that he is now being called the modern 'Gandhian'. It is quite amusing as in younger days he was a street hooligan chasing girls and left schooling at a primary age, later he climbed the barbed wires of the border to get arms training along with a few hundred others to initiate a bloody killing spree in the peaceful valley of Kashmir. Not that he cannot gain such transition, but that would be a miracle in all ways if it at all is true. The first step on his part to peace and change would have been an open apology to the Kashmiri Pandits for killing their innocent members and followed by a surrender openly for his crimes. Now that, we haven't even seen an iota of such attitude we are pretty sure how fool-proof this political game of this so called changed man is. With a character make-over, help from his lobby in New Delhi, Islamabad, and some other world cities he has easily fooled common people. The Indian Government of course has been using him on and off; he is on direct pay rolls; otherwise he would have long been tried for his crimes and put behind bars. There are organisations like PUCL, Amnesty, Association of Disappeared Persons in Kashmir, and some puppets like Arundhati Roy, Gautam Navlakha and a prominent documentary film maker who is a member of this forum (Jashn-e-aazadi fame); who are being used as his messangers. I have relevant documents which say how many cases are pending against him across the valley; among them two important ones being handled by the CBI. Not just hundreds Kashmiri Pandits; but he has even killed four IAF men openly exact 20 years ago. I think even you should try to reach the J&K High Courts and see for yourself how difficult is it to carry on with the legal work. Not that it is corrupt and a tedious exercise; but other reasons which you should understand without mention. Otherwise with so many media reports in the early days the Court could have easily taken a suo-motto Notice of his barbaric crimes against humanity. It is unfortunate that even the Supreme Court is silent on him and the exodus of Kashmiri Hindus; whereas it spoke quite blunt on the Gujarat much hyped riots. I'll certainly inform you if at all there is progress in any of the cases. Till then it goes just like a popular hindi movie dialog, "Tareekh pe Tareekh". No Indian Courts, No International NGOs, No Human Rights Bodies, No NHRC, No Liberal & Secular Social Activists, Writers and lastly No Government has tried to care for our plight. They have all remained silent for last 20 years; many retarded people now even claim that the most unfortunate forced Pandit exodus at the hands of Islamic 'Revolutionaries' was actually a economic migration. This is what we have come to. Is there anything I can reply to this mindless claim ? Tell me: Why can't we demand for JUSTICE when everybody is turning a blind eye to us ? Why can't we protest against psychopath killers like Yasin Malik, Bitta Karate and demand a death penalty for them ? Why is it that some people get so uncomfortable with our constant protests, awareness campaigns, and articles which speak nothing but truth ? You suggest that we should return to those clusters which the Govt. intended to build for us in some corners of Kashmir. Do you think we are some temporary work force which should be accomodated somewhere in the corner and things move on, on their own thereafter ? Its stupidity to make such clusters in the first place, which was initiated by Mufti Sayeed and now is being opposed by Omar's NC. Its unfortunate that mention of 'Kashmiri Pandits' is mere token in Government dealings, packages, policies or any other economic plans. Our viewpoint, suggestions and political demands are ignored. It was in a survey of a prominent english news channel where it was wrongly stated that Kashmiris want 'Aazadi'. This exact survey was studied by analyists who had no bias and it all porved to be a big mess up. The entire survey sample and the connotation was wrong. Again google might be of help to you. Or even Reader's List archives which had a long debate on it. As I said before 'Aazadi' term has now just become subjected to the rooms of Hurriyat and JKLF. The common people believe in the Indian Democracy and it is these heroes of Hate such as Yasin Malik, Shabir Shah, Syed Ali Shah Geelani etc. who time and again brainwash people which result in loss of innocents. The freedom given to these leaders needs to be curbed for free flow of democracy in the valley. These leaders are actually 'Mohalla & Gali leaders' who do not have a base or a framework of mind towards development and progress. They have their singular personal motives for which they work and carry on with their shops. There is not a breakdown of trust between Kashmiri Pandits and Muslims who are now based in the valley. But actually, Kashmiri Pandits don't trust most of them as they remained mute spectators to our exodus. Omar Abdullah the J&K Chief Minister recently confessed to this in front of media. I don't think I need to say more. The reversal of the process of ethnic cleansing is the only first step towards peace and reconciliation. Panun Kashmir is a political demand, which will exist how so ever you may disagree or agree with it. It is the only way to ensure our safety, secure our shrines and property and it is secular in character. Not like so called 'Aazadi' which is based on Religious lines. No such demand as such of 'Aazadi' is acceptable to any sane human being which has put its base on the blood of the minority Hindu Community of the valley which gave the world well-known teachers, politicians, scientists, scholars etc. For again your kind information, early last year we had put ahead a step to have talks with your pet Hurriyat. But its chairman Mirwaiz out rightly rejected it. You have google and our campaign blog to see how it was reported in media and what led to this consequence. We tried our bit, and saw in how much murky waters things are in reality. We even have efforts on the ground level here. We have many 'Kashmiri Muslim' friends who support us and openly campaign against Islamic Terrorist Yasin Malik. What problems do others have ? 'Aazadi' is now a thing of the past, that too if at all it ever existed. I don't have any comments for it further. Kashmiri Pandits will never forgive terrorist Yasin Malik; lets be straight on it. We'll continue to campaign under law for his arrest and conviction. There is lot to happen my friend.. As I said bookish and wikipedia things are easy to say and it looks good in theory and again whatever Media says or propagates isn't true. Lot happens behind the curtains.. Thanks On 2/5/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > Dear Aditya > > Your reply has raised certain questions and points in my mind, which I wish > to express further. > > For your kind information, in Wikipedia, there is no such information as > Yasin Malik saying that he read Gandhi's works to become 'non-violent'. I do > agree that there are people like this who initially commit acts of violence, > and then say that they have read something which has made them non-violent. > However, the fact remains that if we go in the history of what happened in > Kashmir since 1990, once insurgency started, it was Yasin Malik who was the > first person to agree to talks with the Indian Union to get 'azadi' for > Kashmir. And this is not the information from Wikipedia. This is something I > have managed to get thanks to an important lecture I attended a few days > ago, organized by PUCL, Tamil Nadu unit. > > Second. I have also read that Yasin Malik is infact a double agent of both > the Indian and the Pakistani establishments, and he serves the purpose of > both to embarass each other. Some actions have also been pointed out to this > effect, where he has embarassed both Indian and Pakistani establishments in > different actions. However, the way the statements have been put up is just > casting aspersions on Malik itself. If there are facts pertaining to the > fact that Malik indeed has contacts which he has been using, then they must > be brought out in public. For after all, as law says, to prove any > statement, the proof must be 'proof beyond doubt' to satisfy the case. > Hence, the allegation against Malik that he is a 'stooge' of the Indian > government, remains just that, a mere allegation, with nothing to > substantiate it. As for the cases against Malik, let them be proved in > court. And you could inform me if you can, about the progress in these > cases. > > Third. When I talked about Singur, Gujarat and even say tribals, I was > talking about the people who were actually facing the problem, not the NGO's > or others at all. I accept that these people got great support from the > NGO's and others, but the fact remains that in all these cases, these very > people have also suffered a lot, and still they themselves didn't make as > much noise as has been portrayed in media. Infact, each became famous thanks > to incidents and entry of people who were famous. Singur became famous more > so once Trinamool Congress entered the fray agitating for the local people. > Gujarat became famous because of NGO's and English media entering in to > cover the riots live (the local Gujarati media was involved in biased > reporting, that too made it famous). And tribals have not managed to gain > the attention of the media, because important political formations and/or > the upper elites of society have not involved themselves in the struggle of > the tribals. > > What I basically wanted to say was that, the Pandits have yes, been > fighting for the cause of justice for the past 19-20 years. And yes, they > may not have received any support from the NGO's or the government. But does > that mean, that you can go on asking for retribution in the name of justice? > And more importantly, if the govt. of India is willing to provide them > houses in the Valley itself, why is it so that Pandits are not willing to > return at all? > > Let me clearly state here. There has been a complete breakdown of trust > between the Pandits and the Kashmiri Muslims. The incidents of 1990, > whichever way one looks at it, has resulted in disastrous consequences of > today. On one hand, Kashmiri Pandits have still not been able to return back > to their homeland. On the other, Kashmiri Muslims have been subjected to > living under an 'army state' where all freedoms have been clamped down on, > which is against the very notion of 'democracy'. And for me, both are wrong. > > > And the solution of Panun Kashmir, which you as a community have > proposed(not all may be, but certainly some have put up this solution), is > not the solution because it won't be backed by the Muslims living in the > Valley, though I am not against putting it up for referendum. Similarly, the > rights of minorities must be protected, and therefore the rights of Pandits > to their homeland must be accepted. Therefore, the important thing is not > only to ask for justice, but also in some sense, forgive people by not at > least asking for death sentences by the Pandits on one hand, and by > surrendering arms and voluntarily facing cases on the part of Kashmiri > Muslims on the other (here I refer to those who took up arms, not those who > didn' t do so). > > Secondly, there has to be a dialogue between both the communities to build > trust for each other. That should be the path ahead for the return of > Pandits. > > As I see it, I dont' see either of the steps having been taken uptill now. > Can you at least, being one of the speakers for the Kashmiri Pandits (one of > the many speakers, actually) tell whether you made efforts for the same? For > after all, not all Muslims living in your very homeland area can be > 'traitors'. And as you yourself accept, they are human beings. > > I haven't called you pseudos. What I say is that there's a limit to going > around portraying yourself as a victim, to justify any action of yours. > > And finally one more thing. It has been time and again said that democratic > elections in J&K are not the substitute for the dominant feeling of 'azadi', > and the people there, majority of them want 'azadi', with or without > Hurriyat. Since you (and I think many in rest of India) feel that this is > not the case, I think that the Indian Union should better conduct a > referendum in the Valley and make the results public to find out whether > people really want azadi or not. If they want it, then better give it. If > they don't want it, you can burn declare public holidays commemorating the > same occasion, and can also burn my effigies. I have no problems for that > effect. > > The reason why I ask for the referendum is this. If I am true, I know I > will always win no matter how much someone conspires against me. Then why > not let the truth win once again, if you believe (and so many in rest of > India believe) that your side is true. Go ahead, and do it. > > And while I have no pain at all with Kashmiri Pandits raising their voice > against the Indian Govt, what I have pain with is that the Pandits feel that > only they are democratic, whereas the 'azadi struggle' is undemocratic. > Infact, Kashmiris are now being painted by the brush of terrorism and being > Pakistanis, whereby it is being stated that Kashmiris want to be Pakistanis. > The fact is that as numerous surveys and interviews of common people bring > out, they want to be independent of both India and Pakistanis. And more > importantly, even in an azad Kashmir, I believe that Pandits deserve to have > a place there. And therefore, I am not in favor of any independent state > till any resolution of the place of Pandits in this new state and the local > society is found. > > Regards > > Rakesh > > > -- -- Aditya Raj Kaul From nisha_s_a at yahoo.com Sun Feb 8 20:13:39 2009 From: nisha_s_a at yahoo.com (nisha susan) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 06:43:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] The Pink Chaddi Campaign In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <726395.72966.qm@web37103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear All, You may have heard of the Pink Chaddi Campaign that kicked off three days ago to oppose the Sri Ram Sene. The campaign is growing exponentially (1,300 at this point in the life of our Consortium of Pub-going, Loose and Forward Women) and that is not surprising. Most women in this country have enough curbs on their lives without a whole new franchise cashing in with their bully-boy tactics. Of course, a lot of men have joined the group as well. Here is we want to do with the Pink Chaddi Campaign. Join in. Be imaginative, have fun and fight back! Step 1: It does not matter that many of us have not thought about Valentine's Day since we were 13. If ever. This year let us send the Sri Ram Sene some love. Let us send them some PINK CHADDIS. Look in your closet or buy them cheap. Dirt-cheap. Make sure they are PINK. Send them off to the Sene. The address to send the package is: Pramod Muthalik, Chief, Sri Rama Sene, #11, Behind New Bus Stand, Gokhul Road, Near Lakshmi Park, HUBLI - Karnataka If you don't want to mail it yourself, you can drop it off at the Chaddi Collection Points. We will be collecting across the country through this week and sending the packages on February 12. More information about Chaddi Collectors in your city soon on our blog: http://thepinkchaddicampaign.blogspot.com/ Step 2: Send the Pink Chaddi Campaign a photograph of the package. Tell us how many chaddis you are sending out and inspire other women in other cities. You can either mail the information here or you can mail it at our facebook address. http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=49641698651&ref=mf Step 3: On Valentine's Day we do a Pub Bharo action. Go to a pub wherever you are. From Kabul to Chennai to Guwahati to Singapore to LA women have signed up. It does not matter if you are actually not a pub-goer or not even much of a drinker. Let us raise a toast (it can be juice) to Indian women. Take a photo or video. We will put it together (more on how later) and send this as well to the Sri Ram Sene. Step 4: After Valentine's Day we should get some of our elected leaders to agree that beating up women is ummm... AGAINST INDIAN CULTURE. For right now, ask not what Dr VS Acharya, Home Minister of Karnataka can do for you. Ask what you can do for him. Here is his blog. http://drvsacharya.blogspot.com. Send him some love. Nisha Susan For the Pink Chaddi Campaign http://thepinkchaddicampaign.blogspot.com From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Feb 8 20:23:59 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 14:53:59 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice In-Reply-To: <6353c690902080416j59daa2dcld8ac629b8f7a8ae4@mail.gmail.com> References: <776819.99479.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <47e122a70902030616o735a281dn72f781916ebe25d0@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902030841h46c5c975rcf2c546473c869b7@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902050842v54ffae3sdbc9a54615562019@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902080416j59daa2dcld8ac629b8f7a8ae4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40902080653w60ee3433j24698323ee1e5808@mail.gmail.com> Dear Aditya Thank you for your mail. Let me begin by stating that at this moment I am not informed about the intricate history of Kashmir and role of individuals in Kashmiri politics hence I will not comment on the issue of Yasin Malick, however I want to comment on two aspects in your response which I found intriguing. The first relates to a 'charge' laid at Rakesh in the opening paragraph of your response. It seems that you were trying to suggest something while articulating about the set of notions encapsulated by the word 'Gandhian'. In your view the word 'Gandhian' seems to ascribe to a value system which was propagated and practiced by Gandhi. Anyone who practices such values can lay claim to this word.Yasin Mallick, in your view, cannot call himself Gandhian because he, according to you, 'was a street hooligan chasing girls and left schooling at a primary age'. Don't you think that if we apply this assumed set of notions to Mr. M.K. Gandhi himself, then even he might not even qualify to become Gandhian because even he, in his younger days, slept with commercial sex workers and he indulged in acts of stealing. Please tell me can people not change or grow or acquire new value systems or thought processes as they go along in life? Should they just cling on to a set of ideas, which they were exposed to at a younger age? And if they have changed then to what degree should we judge them by their past actions? For instance, should we not listen to insightful and deeply moving words of someone like Krishna because when he was younger he was a makhan chor (that was stealing was it not?) and even lied according to many a lore...mayya more mai nahi makhan khayyo... Imagine in 18th century England, children as young as eight or ten were publicly hanged for stealing a piece of bread or a spoon, this was period when laws around the idea of property were getting crystallized, hence from this perspective acts of Kanha could be termed as 'grave crime' which could have resulted in capital hanging. Anyways. In your view should we not read slokas of Valmiki because in his youth he was a bandit and a robber, who indulged in acts of murder of many innocents? The second relates to the question of the validity of knowledge. I want to ask you, Aditya, in your opinion which type of knowledge is more valid? You seem to be averse to the idea of knowledge gleaned from wikipedia and there seems to be greater validity to knowledge gained from experience. This leads to my second question, why do you think that experiential knowledge is more valid? or in other words why do think that being a Kashmiri, who has udergone suffering and exile and pain makes your thought more weighty than some one like Rakesh's? Why cannot Rakesh's view be acknowledged as a perspective, like yours? And responded accordingly. What I do not understand is this constant recourse to individual tagging, as a means of rhetorical response? Where is the need here? Do you feel that any person who is not a Kashmiri like you, but is sincere enough to invest, some years of her life to study all the relevant literature pertaining to Kashmir, will not be able to articulate an informed opinion? Why do you think people whose subjectivites are involved with a space and its society are the best judge of any opinoin which relates to that space and society? Regards Taha On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Dear Rakesh, > > From Wikepedia knowledge you have now yet again moved to another part known > as the propaganda of 'English media'. I wonder how much Yasin Malik can > even > read to have gained such drastic transformation that he is now being called > the modern 'Gandhian'. It is quite amusing as in younger days he was a > street hooligan chasing girls and left schooling at a primary age, later he > climbed the barbed wires of the border to get arms training along with a > few > hundred others to initiate a bloody killing spree in the peaceful valley of > Kashmir. Not that he cannot gain such transition, but that would be a > miracle in all ways if it at all is true. > > From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sun Feb 8 20:44:05 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 20:44:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Pink Chaddi Campaign In-Reply-To: <726395.72966.qm@web37103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <726395.72966.qm@web37103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6353c690902080714y370b0e6fgb7624ff12e79602d@mail.gmail.com> Why not target/protest the media as well; who remained mute spectators to the horrific drama that unfolded on that fateful day ? Just a suggestion, send them Pink Chaddis with "BREAKING NEWS" written on them. On 2/8/09, nisha susan wrote: > > Dear All, > > You may have heard of the Pink Chaddi Campaign that kicked off three days > ago to oppose the Sri Ram Sene. The campaign is growing exponentially (1,300 > at this point in the life of our Consortium of Pub-going, Loose and Forward > Women) and that is not surprising. Most women in this country have enough > curbs on their lives without a whole new franchise cashing in with their > bully-boy tactics. Of course, a lot of men have joined the group as well. > > Here is we want to do with the Pink Chaddi Campaign. Join in. Be > imaginative, have fun and fight back! > > Step 1: It does not matter that many of us have not thought about > Valentine's Day since we were 13. If ever. This year let us send the Sri Ram > Sene some love. Let us send them some PINK CHADDIS. > > Look in your closet or buy them cheap. Dirt-cheap. Make sure they are PINK. > Send them off to the Sene. > > The address to send the package is: > Pramod Muthalik, > Chief, Sri Rama Sene, > #11, Behind New Bus Stand, Gokhul Road, Near Lakshmi Park, > HUBLI - Karnataka > > If you don't want to mail it yourself, you can drop it off at the Chaddi > Collection Points. We will be collecting across the country through this > week and sending the packages on February 12. More information about Chaddi > Collectors in your city soon on our blog: > http://thepinkchaddicampaign.blogspot.com/ > > Step 2: Send the Pink Chaddi Campaign a photograph of the package. > > Tell us how many chaddis you are sending out and inspire other women in > other cities. You can either mail the information here or you can mail it at > our facebook address. > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=49641698651&ref=mf > > > Step 3: On Valentine's Day we do a Pub Bharo action. Go to a pub wherever > you are. From Kabul to Chennai to Guwahati to Singapore to LA women have > signed up. It does not matter if you are actually not a pub-goer or not even > much of a drinker. Let us raise a toast (it can be juice) to Indian women. > Take a photo or video. We will put it together (more on how later) and send > this as well to the Sri Ram Sene. > > Step 4: After Valentine's Day we should get some of our elected leaders to > agree that beating up women is ummm... AGAINST INDIAN CULTURE. > > For right now, ask not what Dr VS Acharya, Home Minister of Karnataka can > do for you. Ask what you can do for him. Here is his blog. > http://drvsacharya.blogspot.com. Send him some love. > > > Nisha Susan > For the Pink Chaddi Campaign > http://thepinkchaddicampaign.blogspot.com > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- -- Aditya Raj Kaul From parthaekka at gmail.com Sun Feb 8 21:36:31 2009 From: parthaekka at gmail.com (Partha Dasgupta) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 21:36:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice In-Reply-To: <6353c690902080416j59daa2dcld8ac629b8f7a8ae4@mail.gmail.com> References: <776819.99479.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <47e122a70902030616o735a281dn72f781916ebe25d0@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902030841h46c5c975rcf2c546473c869b7@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902050842v54ffae3sdbc9a54615562019@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902080416j59daa2dcld8ac629b8f7a8ae4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32144e990902080806h480bc705t468c550d74839245@mail.gmail.com> Dear Aditya, I must be repeating myself, but there are some questions I need to reiterate: 1. Is the purpose retribution of resolution? a) If it is retriibution, then there will never be resolution b) Where does it say that a person (man or woman) can't change their mind 2. If I follow a path, and then leave a cause as I loose belief in it, must I always be branded with my first belief? Like any other human, have made mistakes and adjusted my beliefs, and am sure you have too. 3. Forget 'Gandhian' as he's a tough act to follow though I have seen my elders talking about Gandi and JP. Where I am is a human with many a fragility following what I can. 4. The 'Law' and the 'regulators' are what we make and vote them as. If they are at fault, so are we. 5. Kashmir is what we consciously or unconsciously have made of it, and we have to accept the current status and move forward on that. That may be my naivete and I am willing to accept that. Are you willing to accept status quo and move forward from there to a resolution. Foolish questions from a father, but I'd rather have hope & life than death and disappointment. Rgds, Partha ...................... On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Dear Rakesh, > > From Wikepedia knowledge you have now yet again moved to another part known > as the propaganda of 'English media'. I wonder how much Yasin Malik can > even > read to have gained such drastic transformation that he is now being called > the modern 'Gandhian'. It is quite amusing as in younger days he was a > street hooligan chasing girls and left schooling at a primary age, later he > climbed the barbed wires of the border to get arms training along with a > few > hundred others to initiate a bloody killing spree in the peaceful valley of > Kashmir. Not that he cannot gain such transition, but that would be a > miracle in all ways if it at all is true. > > The first step on his part to peace and change would have been an open > apology to the Kashmiri Pandits for killing their innocent members and > followed by a surrender openly for his crimes. Now that, we haven't even > seen an iota of such attitude we are pretty sure how fool-proof this > political game of this so called changed man is. With a character > make-over, > help from his lobby in New Delhi, Islamabad, and some other world cities he > has easily fooled common people. The Indian Government of course has been > using him on and off; he is on direct pay rolls; otherwise he would have > long been tried for his crimes and put behind bars. There are organisations > like PUCL, Amnesty, Association of Disappeared Persons in Kashmir, and some > puppets like Arundhati Roy, Gautam Navlakha and a prominent documentary > film > maker who is a member of this forum (Jashn-e-aazadi fame); who are being > used as his messangers. > > I have relevant documents which say how many cases are pending against him > across the valley; among them two important ones being handled by the CBI. > Not just hundreds Kashmiri Pandits; but he has even killed four IAF men > openly exact 20 years ago. > > I think even you should try to reach the J&K High Courts and see for > yourself how difficult is it to carry on with the legal work. Not that it > is > corrupt and a tedious exercise; but other reasons which you should > understand without mention. Otherwise with so many media reports in the > early days the Court could have easily taken a suo-motto Notice of his > barbaric crimes against humanity. It is unfortunate that even the Supreme > Court is silent on him and the exodus of Kashmiri Hindus; whereas it spoke > quite blunt on the Gujarat much hyped riots. > > I'll certainly inform you if at all there is progress in any of the cases. > Till then it goes just like a popular hindi movie dialog, "Tareekh pe > Tareekh". > > No Indian Courts, No International NGOs, No Human Rights Bodies, No NHRC, > No > Liberal & Secular Social Activists, Writers and lastly No Government has > tried to care for our plight. They have all remained silent for last 20 > years; many retarded people now even claim that the most unfortunate forced > Pandit exodus at the hands of Islamic 'Revolutionaries' was actually a > economic migration. This is what we have come to. Is there anything I can > reply to this mindless claim ? > > Tell me: > > Why can't we demand for JUSTICE when everybody is turning a blind eye to us > ? > > Why can't we protest against psychopath killers like Yasin Malik, Bitta > Karate and demand a death penalty for them ? > > Why is it that some people get so uncomfortable with our constant protests, > awareness campaigns, and articles which speak nothing but truth ? > > You suggest that we should return to those clusters which the Govt. > intended > to build for us in some corners of Kashmir. Do you think we are some > temporary work force which should be accomodated somewhere in the corner > and > things move on, on their own thereafter ? Its stupidity to make such > clusters in the first place, which was initiated by Mufti Sayeed and now is > being opposed by Omar's NC. > > Its unfortunate that mention of 'Kashmiri Pandits' is mere token in > Government dealings, packages, policies or any other economic plans. Our > viewpoint, suggestions and political demands are ignored. > > It was in a survey of a prominent english news channel where it was wrongly > stated that Kashmiris want 'Aazadi'. This exact survey was studied by > analyists who had no bias and it all porved to be a big mess up. The entire > survey sample and the connotation was wrong. Again google might be of help > to you. Or even Reader's List archives which had a long debate on it. > > As I said before 'Aazadi' term has now just become subjected to the rooms > of > Hurriyat and JKLF. The common people believe in the Indian Democracy and it > is these heroes of Hate such as Yasin Malik, Shabir Shah, Syed Ali Shah > Geelani etc. who time and again brainwash people which result in loss of > innocents. The freedom given to these leaders needs to be curbed for free > flow of democracy in the valley. These leaders are actually 'Mohalla & Gali > leaders' who do not have a base or a framework of mind towards development > and progress. They have their singular personal motives for which they work > and carry on with their shops. > > There is not a breakdown of trust between Kashmiri Pandits and Muslims who > are now based in the valley. But actually, Kashmiri Pandits don't trust > most > of them as they remained mute spectators to our exodus. Omar Abdullah the > J&K Chief Minister recently confessed to this in front of media. I don't > think I need to say more. The reversal of the process of ethnic cleansing > is > the only first step towards peace and reconciliation. > > Panun Kashmir is a political demand, which will exist how so ever you may > disagree or agree with it. It is the only way to ensure our safety, secure > our shrines and property and it is secular in character. Not like so called > 'Aazadi' which is based on Religious lines. No such demand as such of > 'Aazadi' is acceptable to any sane human being which has put its base on > the > blood of the minority Hindu Community of the valley which gave the world > well-known teachers, politicians, scientists, scholars etc. > > For again your kind information, early last year we had put ahead a step to > have talks with your pet Hurriyat. But its chairman Mirwaiz out rightly > rejected it. You have google and our campaign blog to see how it was > reported in media and what led to this consequence. We tried our bit, and > saw in how much murky waters things are in reality. > > We even have efforts on the ground level here. We have many 'Kashmiri > Muslim' friends who support us and openly campaign against Islamic > Terrorist > Yasin Malik. What problems do others have ? > > 'Aazadi' is now a thing of the past, that too if at all it ever existed. I > don't have any comments for it further. > > Kashmiri Pandits will never forgive terrorist Yasin Malik; lets be straight > on it. We'll continue to campaign under law for his arrest and conviction. > There is lot to happen my friend.. As I said bookish and wikipedia things > are easy to say and it looks good in theory and again whatever Media says > or > propagates isn't true. Lot happens behind the curtains.. > > Thanks > > > > > > On 2/5/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > > > Dear Aditya > > > > Your reply has raised certain questions and points in my mind, which I > wish > > to express further. > > > > For your kind information, in Wikipedia, there is no such information as > > Yasin Malik saying that he read Gandhi's works to become 'non-violent'. I > do > > agree that there are people like this who initially commit acts of > violence, > > and then say that they have read something which has made them > non-violent. > > However, the fact remains that if we go in the history of what happened > in > > Kashmir since 1990, once insurgency started, it was Yasin Malik who was > the > > first person to agree to talks with the Indian Union to get 'azadi' for > > Kashmir. And this is not the information from Wikipedia. This is > something I > > have managed to get thanks to an important lecture I attended a few days > > ago, organized by PUCL, Tamil Nadu unit. > > > > Second. I have also read that Yasin Malik is infact a double agent of > both > > the Indian and the Pakistani establishments, and he serves the purpose of > > both to embarass each other. Some actions have also been pointed out to > this > > effect, where he has embarassed both Indian and Pakistani establishments > in > > different actions. However, the way the statements have been put up is > just > > casting aspersions on Malik itself. If there are facts pertaining to the > > fact that Malik indeed has contacts which he has been using, then they > must > > be brought out in public. For after all, as law says, to prove any > > statement, the proof must be 'proof beyond doubt' to satisfy the case. > > Hence, the allegation against Malik that he is a 'stooge' of the Indian > > government, remains just that, a mere allegation, with nothing to > > substantiate it. As for the cases against Malik, let them be proved in > > court. And you could inform me if you can, about the progress in these > > cases. > > > > Third. When I talked about Singur, Gujarat and even say tribals, I was > > talking about the people who were actually facing the problem, not the > NGO's > > or others at all. I accept that these people got great support from the > > NGO's and others, but the fact remains that in all these cases, these > very > > people have also suffered a lot, and still they themselves didn't make as > > much noise as has been portrayed in media. Infact, each became famous > thanks > > to incidents and entry of people who were famous. Singur became famous > more > > so once Trinamool Congress entered the fray agitating for the local > people. > > Gujarat became famous because of NGO's and English media entering in to > > cover the riots live (the local Gujarati media was involved in biased > > reporting, that too made it famous). And tribals have not managed to gain > > the attention of the media, because important political formations and/or > > the upper elites of society have not involved themselves in the struggle > of > > the tribals. > > > > What I basically wanted to say was that, the Pandits have yes, been > > fighting for the cause of justice for the past 19-20 years. And yes, they > > may not have received any support from the NGO's or the government. But > does > > that mean, that you can go on asking for retribution in the name of > justice? > > And more importantly, if the govt. of India is willing to provide them > > houses in the Valley itself, why is it so that Pandits are not willing to > > return at all? > > > > Let me clearly state here. There has been a complete breakdown of trust > > between the Pandits and the Kashmiri Muslims. The incidents of 1990, > > whichever way one looks at it, has resulted in disastrous consequences of > > today. On one hand, Kashmiri Pandits have still not been able to return > back > > to their homeland. On the other, Kashmiri Muslims have been subjected to > > living under an 'army state' where all freedoms have been clamped down > on, > > which is against the very notion of 'democracy'. And for me, both are > wrong. > > > > > > And the solution of Panun Kashmir, which you as a community have > > proposed(not all may be, but certainly some have put up this solution), > is > > not the solution because it won't be backed by the Muslims living in the > > Valley, though I am not against putting it up for referendum. Similarly, > the > > rights of minorities must be protected, and therefore the rights of > Pandits > > to their homeland must be accepted. Therefore, the important thing is not > > only to ask for justice, but also in some sense, forgive people by not at > > least asking for death sentences by the Pandits on one hand, and by > > surrendering arms and voluntarily facing cases on the part of Kashmiri > > Muslims on the other (here I refer to those who took up arms, not those > who > > didn' t do so). > > > > Secondly, there has to be a dialogue between both the communities to > build > > trust for each other. That should be the path ahead for the return of > > Pandits. > > > > As I see it, I dont' see either of the steps having been taken uptill > now. > > Can you at least, being one of the speakers for the Kashmiri Pandits (one > of > > the many speakers, actually) tell whether you made efforts for the same? > For > > after all, not all Muslims living in your very homeland area can be > > 'traitors'. And as you yourself accept, they are human beings. > > > > I haven't called you pseudos. What I say is that there's a limit to going > > around portraying yourself as a victim, to justify any action of yours. > > > > And finally one more thing. It has been time and again said that > democratic > > elections in J&K are not the substitute for the dominant feeling of > 'azadi', > > and the people there, majority of them want 'azadi', with or without > > Hurriyat. Since you (and I think many in rest of India) feel that this is > > not the case, I think that the Indian Union should better conduct a > > referendum in the Valley and make the results public to find out whether > > people really want azadi or not. If they want it, then better give it. If > > they don't want it, you can burn declare public holidays commemorating > the > > same occasion, and can also burn my effigies. I have no problems for that > > effect. > > > > The reason why I ask for the referendum is this. If I am true, I know I > > will always win no matter how much someone conspires against me. Then why > > not let the truth win once again, if you believe (and so many in rest of > > India believe) that your side is true. Go ahead, and do it. > > > > And while I have no pain at all with Kashmiri Pandits raising their voice > > against the Indian Govt, what I have pain with is that the Pandits feel > that > > only they are democratic, whereas the 'azadi struggle' is undemocratic. > > Infact, Kashmiris are now being painted by the brush of terrorism and > being > > Pakistanis, whereby it is being stated that Kashmiris want to be > Pakistanis. > > The fact is that as numerous surveys and interviews of common people > bring > > out, they want to be independent of both India and Pakistanis. And more > > importantly, even in an azad Kashmir, I believe that Pandits deserve to > have > > a place there. And therefore, I am not in favor of any independent state > > till any resolution of the place of Pandits in this new state and the > local > > society is found. > > > > Regards > > > > Rakesh > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Partha Dasgupta +919811047132 From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Feb 8 21:55:11 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 21:55:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Pink Chaddi Campaign In-Reply-To: <6353c690902080714y370b0e6fgb7624ff12e79602d@mail.gmail.com> References: <726395.72966.qm@web37103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6353c690902080714y370b0e6fgb7624ff12e79602d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear all The entire episode of Mangalore pub attacks which has resulted in this kind of movement, has still not been condemned by politicians. And what we instead have, is a so called 'Indian culture' being formulated by the Ram Sene, where all others have been considered as derogatory. Therefore, it's just not the question of 'saving Valentine's Day' or saving Valentine couples anymore. It's the question of saving our very own culture and our very own gods from being turned into epitomes of violence. Please therefore don't skip Feb 14, even if you don't have a Valentine. Not only to save Valentine couples. But to save Indian culture from the 'moral police'; to save Lord Ram from Ram Sene. Regards Rakesh From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sun Feb 8 22:23:57 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 22:23:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice In-Reply-To: <32144e990902080806h480bc705t468c550d74839245@mail.gmail.com> References: <776819.99479.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <47e122a70902030616o735a281dn72f781916ebe25d0@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902030841h46c5c975rcf2c546473c869b7@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902050842v54ffae3sdbc9a54615562019@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902080416j59daa2dcld8ac629b8f7a8ae4@mail.gmail.com> <32144e990902080806h480bc705t468c550d74839245@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690902080853u3e2a47cdq1be4ec8c49fca90d@mail.gmail.com> Partha ji, We have had hope for the longest of the time. We are not like those who pick up guns to silence others; we just write to vent out our anger, to narrate our misery. Let me assure you that we still are adopting peaceful and democratic means. Yes, I think even biggest of criminals eg. Yasin Malik can change. But, how should I be convinced that he has changed ? Just a speech by him, just a non-violent approach by him, just merely a shift in his line of working which is clearly a make-over and PR Exercise to get International attention !!! Should I forget the bloody period which was forced upon us all ? Yes I may forget it, as I haven't suffered much myself; my family though has, I've just lost my homeland, no big deal. What do I tell those who've lost countless brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers etc. at the hands of Yasin Malik, Bitta Karate etc. ? Do you have any answer for them ? Is the future of Kashmir so dark, that we have to trust criminals and uneducated people like Yasin Malik, who have made their image clear through their past acts ? Shouldn't he be convicted for all his murders, kidnappings, rapes etc ? Why should we forget it and simply forgive him ? It is a strange sacrifice that people tend to ask us often. This isn't going to happen, that I can assure you for sure.. :) The current Kashmir isn't what we have made of it, yes partly true. But, the immediate truth is that the bloody period and gun culture was initiated by JKLF and later Hizbul which resulted in the exodus of half a million Kashmiri Pandits. I must have repeated this for over 1000 times on this forum. We are ready to move ahead provided these following three steps are agreed upon by all: 1. The majority community campaigns along with us to ask for the immediate arrest of terrorists like Yasin Malik, Bitta Karate etc. 2. All Temples, Shrines etc, destroyed in this period (Post 86) which are in hundreds are restored and re-built. 3. All property, land, orchards etc. originally of Pandits, which has been occupied by majority community post 1989 are returned. I need not repeat that every resolution of Kashmir for peace should be under Indian Constitution which we believe in. Till then we would campaign for whatever time we have to; for getting Terrorist Yasin Malik death, and us all Kashmiris Panun (Our Own) Kashmir. Thanks Aditya Raj Kaul On 2/8/09, Partha Dasgupta wrote: > > Dear Aditya, > > I must be repeating myself, but there are some questions I need to > reiterate: > > 1. Is the purpose retribution of resolution? > a) If it is retriibution, then there will never be resolution > b) Where does it say that a person (man or woman) can't change > their mind > > 2. If I follow a path, and then leave a cause as I loose belief in it, > must I always be branded with my first belief? > Like any other human, have made mistakes and adjusted my beliefs, and > am sure you have too. > > 3. Forget 'Gandhian' as he's a tough act to follow though I have seen my > elders talking about Gandi and JP. Where I am is a human with many a > fragility following what I can. > > 4. The 'Law' and the 'regulators' are what we make and vote them as. If > they are at fault, so are we. > > 5. Kashmir is what we consciously or unconsciously have made of it, and > we have to accept the current status and move forward on that. > > That may be my naivete and I am willing to accept that. Are you willing to > accept status quo and move forward from there to a resolution. > > Foolish questions from a father, but I'd rather have hope & life than death > and disappointment. > > Rgds, Partha > ...................... > > On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > >> Dear Rakesh, >> >> From Wikepedia knowledge you have now yet again moved to another part >> known >> as the propaganda of 'English media'. I wonder how much Yasin Malik can >> even >> read to have gained such drastic transformation that he is now being >> called >> the modern 'Gandhian'. It is quite amusing as in younger days he was a >> street hooligan chasing girls and left schooling at a primary age, later >> he >> climbed the barbed wires of the border to get arms training along with a >> few >> hundred others to initiate a bloody killing spree in the peaceful valley >> of >> Kashmir. Not that he cannot gain such transition, but that would be a >> miracle in all ways if it at all is true. >> >> The first step on his part to peace and change would have been an open >> apology to the Kashmiri Pandits for killing their innocent members and >> followed by a surrender openly for his crimes. Now that, we haven't even >> seen an iota of such attitude we are pretty sure how fool-proof this >> political game of this so called changed man is. With a character >> make-over, >> help from his lobby in New Delhi, Islamabad, and some other world cities >> he >> has easily fooled common people. The Indian Government of course has been >> using him on and off; he is on direct pay rolls; otherwise he would have >> long been tried for his crimes and put behind bars. There are >> organisations >> like PUCL, Amnesty, Association of Disappeared Persons in Kashmir, and >> some >> puppets like Arundhati Roy, Gautam Navlakha and a prominent documentary >> film >> maker who is a member of this forum (Jashn-e-aazadi fame); who are being >> used as his messangers. >> >> I have relevant documents which say how many cases are pending against him >> across the valley; among them two important ones being handled by the CBI. >> Not just hundreds Kashmiri Pandits; but he has even killed four IAF men >> openly exact 20 years ago. >> >> I think even you should try to reach the J&K High Courts and see for >> yourself how difficult is it to carry on with the legal work. Not that it >> is >> corrupt and a tedious exercise; but other reasons which you should >> understand without mention. Otherwise with so many media reports in the >> early days the Court could have easily taken a suo-motto Notice of his >> barbaric crimes against humanity. It is unfortunate that even the Supreme >> Court is silent on him and the exodus of Kashmiri Hindus; whereas it spoke >> quite blunt on the Gujarat much hyped riots. >> >> I'll certainly inform you if at all there is progress in any of the cases. >> Till then it goes just like a popular hindi movie dialog, "Tareekh pe >> Tareekh". >> >> No Indian Courts, No International NGOs, No Human Rights Bodies, No NHRC, >> No >> Liberal & Secular Social Activists, Writers and lastly No Government has >> tried to care for our plight. They have all remained silent for last 20 >> years; many retarded people now even claim that the most unfortunate >> forced >> Pandit exodus at the hands of Islamic 'Revolutionaries' was actually a >> economic migration. This is what we have come to. Is there anything I can >> reply to this mindless claim ? >> >> Tell me: >> >> Why can't we demand for JUSTICE when everybody is turning a blind eye to >> us >> ? >> >> Why can't we protest against psychopath killers like Yasin Malik, Bitta >> Karate and demand a death penalty for them ? >> >> Why is it that some people get so uncomfortable with our constant >> protests, >> awareness campaigns, and articles which speak nothing but truth ? >> >> You suggest that we should return to those clusters which the Govt. >> intended >> to build for us in some corners of Kashmir. Do you think we are some >> temporary work force which should be accomodated somewhere in the corner >> and >> things move on, on their own thereafter ? Its stupidity to make such >> clusters in the first place, which was initiated by Mufti Sayeed and now >> is >> being opposed by Omar's NC. >> >> Its unfortunate that mention of 'Kashmiri Pandits' is mere token in >> Government dealings, packages, policies or any other economic plans. Our >> viewpoint, suggestions and political demands are ignored. >> >> It was in a survey of a prominent english news channel where it was >> wrongly >> stated that Kashmiris want 'Aazadi'. This exact survey was studied by >> analyists who had no bias and it all porved to be a big mess up. The >> entire >> survey sample and the connotation was wrong. Again google might be of help >> to you. Or even Reader's List archives which had a long debate on it. >> >> As I said before 'Aazadi' term has now just become subjected to the rooms >> of >> Hurriyat and JKLF. The common people believe in the Indian Democracy and >> it >> is these heroes of Hate such as Yasin Malik, Shabir Shah, Syed Ali Shah >> Geelani etc. who time and again brainwash people which result in loss of >> innocents. The freedom given to these leaders needs to be curbed for free >> flow of democracy in the valley. These leaders are actually 'Mohalla & >> Gali >> leaders' who do not have a base or a framework of mind towards development >> and progress. They have their singular personal motives for which they >> work >> and carry on with their shops. >> >> There is not a breakdown of trust between Kashmiri Pandits and Muslims who >> are now based in the valley. But actually, Kashmiri Pandits don't trust >> most >> of them as they remained mute spectators to our exodus. Omar Abdullah the >> J&K Chief Minister recently confessed to this in front of media. I don't >> think I need to say more. The reversal of the process of ethnic cleansing >> is >> the only first step towards peace and reconciliation. >> >> Panun Kashmir is a political demand, which will exist how so ever you may >> disagree or agree with it. It is the only way to ensure our safety, secure >> our shrines and property and it is secular in character. Not like so >> called >> 'Aazadi' which is based on Religious lines. No such demand as such of >> 'Aazadi' is acceptable to any sane human being which has put its base on >> the >> blood of the minority Hindu Community of the valley which gave the world >> well-known teachers, politicians, scientists, scholars etc. >> >> For again your kind information, early last year we had put ahead a step >> to >> have talks with your pet Hurriyat. But its chairman Mirwaiz out rightly >> rejected it. You have google and our campaign blog to see how it was >> reported in media and what led to this consequence. We tried our bit, and >> saw in how much murky waters things are in reality. >> >> We even have efforts on the ground level here. We have many 'Kashmiri >> Muslim' friends who support us and openly campaign against Islamic >> Terrorist >> Yasin Malik. What problems do others have ? >> >> 'Aazadi' is now a thing of the past, that too if at all it ever existed. I >> don't have any comments for it further. >> >> Kashmiri Pandits will never forgive terrorist Yasin Malik; lets be >> straight >> on it. We'll continue to campaign under law for his arrest and conviction. >> There is lot to happen my friend.. As I said bookish and wikipedia things >> are easy to say and it looks good in theory and again whatever Media says >> or >> propagates isn't true. Lot happens behind the curtains.. >> >> Thanks >> >> >> >> >> >> On 2/5/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: >> > >> > Dear Aditya >> > >> > Your reply has raised certain questions and points in my mind, which I >> wish >> > to express further. >> > >> > For your kind information, in Wikipedia, there is no such information as >> > Yasin Malik saying that he read Gandhi's works to become 'non-violent'. >> I do >> > agree that there are people like this who initially commit acts of >> violence, >> > and then say that they have read something which has made them >> non-violent. >> > However, the fact remains that if we go in the history of what happened >> in >> > Kashmir since 1990, once insurgency started, it was Yasin Malik who was >> the >> > first person to agree to talks with the Indian Union to get 'azadi' for >> > Kashmir. And this is not the information from Wikipedia. This is >> something I >> > have managed to get thanks to an important lecture I attended a few days >> > ago, organized by PUCL, Tamil Nadu unit. >> > >> > Second. I have also read that Yasin Malik is infact a double agent of >> both >> > the Indian and the Pakistani establishments, and he serves the purpose >> of >> > both to embarass each other. Some actions have also been pointed out to >> this >> > effect, where he has embarassed both Indian and Pakistani establishments >> in >> > different actions. However, the way the statements have been put up is >> just >> > casting aspersions on Malik itself. If there are facts pertaining to the >> > fact that Malik indeed has contacts which he has been using, then they >> must >> > be brought out in public. For after all, as law says, to prove any >> > statement, the proof must be 'proof beyond doubt' to satisfy the case. >> > Hence, the allegation against Malik that he is a 'stooge' of the Indian >> > government, remains just that, a mere allegation, with nothing to >> > substantiate it. As for the cases against Malik, let them be proved in >> > court. And you could inform me if you can, about the progress in these >> > cases. >> > >> > Third. When I talked about Singur, Gujarat and even say tribals, I was >> > talking about the people who were actually facing the problem, not the >> NGO's >> > or others at all. I accept that these people got great support from the >> > NGO's and others, but the fact remains that in all these cases, these >> very >> > people have also suffered a lot, and still they themselves didn't make >> as >> > much noise as has been portrayed in media. Infact, each became famous >> thanks >> > to incidents and entry of people who were famous. Singur became famous >> more >> > so once Trinamool Congress entered the fray agitating for the local >> people. >> > Gujarat became famous because of NGO's and English media entering in to >> > cover the riots live (the local Gujarati media was involved in biased >> > reporting, that too made it famous). And tribals have not managed to >> gain >> > the attention of the media, because important political formations >> and/or >> > the upper elites of society have not involved themselves in the struggle >> of >> > the tribals. >> > >> > What I basically wanted to say was that, the Pandits have yes, been >> > fighting for the cause of justice for the past 19-20 years. And yes, >> they >> > may not have received any support from the NGO's or the government. But >> does >> > that mean, that you can go on asking for retribution in the name of >> justice? >> > And more importantly, if the govt. of India is willing to provide them >> > houses in the Valley itself, why is it so that Pandits are not willing >> to >> > return at all? >> > >> > Let me clearly state here. There has been a complete breakdown of trust >> > between the Pandits and the Kashmiri Muslims. The incidents of 1990, >> > whichever way one looks at it, has resulted in disastrous consequences >> of >> > today. On one hand, Kashmiri Pandits have still not been able to return >> back >> > to their homeland. On the other, Kashmiri Muslims have been subjected to >> > living under an 'army state' where all freedoms have been clamped down >> on, >> > which is against the very notion of 'democracy'. And for me, both are >> wrong. >> > >> > >> > And the solution of Panun Kashmir, which you as a community have >> > proposed(not all may be, but certainly some have put up this solution), >> is >> > not the solution because it won't be backed by the Muslims living in the >> > Valley, though I am not against putting it up for referendum. Similarly, >> the >> > rights of minorities must be protected, and therefore the rights of >> Pandits >> > to their homeland must be accepted. Therefore, the important thing is >> not >> > only to ask for justice, but also in some sense, forgive people by not >> at >> > least asking for death sentences by the Pandits on one hand, and by >> > surrendering arms and voluntarily facing cases on the part of Kashmiri >> > Muslims on the other (here I refer to those who took up arms, not those >> who >> > didn' t do so). >> > >> > Secondly, there has to be a dialogue between both the communities to >> build >> > trust for each other. That should be the path ahead for the return of >> > Pandits. >> > >> > As I see it, I dont' see either of the steps having been taken uptill >> now. >> > Can you at least, being one of the speakers for the Kashmiri Pandits >> (one of >> > the many speakers, actually) tell whether you made efforts for the same? >> For >> > after all, not all Muslims living in your very homeland area can be >> > 'traitors'. And as you yourself accept, they are human beings. >> > >> > I haven't called you pseudos. What I say is that there's a limit to >> going >> > around portraying yourself as a victim, to justify any action of yours. >> > >> > And finally one more thing. It has been time and again said that >> democratic >> > elections in J&K are not the substitute for the dominant feeling of >> 'azadi', >> > and the people there, majority of them want 'azadi', with or without >> > Hurriyat. Since you (and I think many in rest of India) feel that this >> is >> > not the case, I think that the Indian Union should better conduct a >> > referendum in the Valley and make the results public to find out whether >> > people really want azadi or not. If they want it, then better give it. >> If >> > they don't want it, you can burn declare public holidays commemorating >> the >> > same occasion, and can also burn my effigies. I have no problems for >> that >> > effect. >> > >> > The reason why I ask for the referendum is this. If I am true, I know I >> > will always win no matter how much someone conspires against me. Then >> why >> > not let the truth win once again, if you believe (and so many in rest of >> > India believe) that your side is true. Go ahead, and do it. >> > >> > And while I have no pain at all with Kashmiri Pandits raising their >> voice >> > against the Indian Govt, what I have pain with is that the Pandits feel >> that >> > only they are democratic, whereas the 'azadi struggle' is undemocratic. >> > Infact, Kashmiris are now being painted by the brush of terrorism and >> being >> > Pakistanis, whereby it is being stated that Kashmiris want to be >> Pakistanis. >> > The fact is that as numerous surveys and interviews of common people >> bring >> > out, they want to be independent of both India and Pakistanis. And more >> > importantly, even in an azad Kashmir, I believe that Pandits deserve to >> have >> > a place there. And therefore, I am not in favor of any independent state >> > till any resolution of the place of Pandits in this new state and the >> local >> > society is found. >> > >> > Regards >> > >> > Rakesh >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> >> -- >> Aditya Raj Kaul >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > Partha Dasgupta > +919811047132 > From indersalim at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 07:46:18 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 07:46:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: My life cleaning Delhi's sewers' Message-ID: <47e122a70902081816t697d88afx924d0fd1311a692@mail.gmail.com> India may be spending billions on its high tech space programme but its spending on sewers is decidedly low tech and deadly, reports the BBC's Rupa Jha. I will never forget the sight of that thin short man, wearing nothing but cotton underpants, strapped into a harness arrangement, disappearing down into a dark manhole beneath the streets of my home city. The diameter of the hole was so small that he bruised himself while slipping down. Inside was a dark well, full of sewage, with giant cockroaches sticking to the wall. Before he climbed in I asked him his name. I was really surprised when he answered flamboyantly, "Rewa Ram - Son of Khanjan." I thought: "He must be educated, seems to speak some English." But when I asked him, he said: "No. I'm a complete illiterate." When I looked down that hole into the drains of Delhi, the smell was overwhelming. Down below, he was coughing, trying hard to keep breathing. He was struggling to clear a blockage with his bare hands. Dizzying smell All of a sudden, a pipe protruding into the drain above his head started spewing out water and human faeces that poured over his body. I began to feel dizzy just looking down into this mess. My nostrils were filled with that obnoxious smell, a bit like of rotten eggs. I wanted to vomit. I felt weak and wanted to run away from the smell. I was born and brought up in India and for the past 15 years I have lived in Delhi, the capital city of one of the world's most rapidly growing economies. I am a member of the growing, upwardly mobile middle class. I suppose I represent the "roaring Tiger" India, but I am regularly shocked and surprised when I see the struggle for dignity that so many face here. Literally beneath the glitter of the big city lies a vast network of these dark drains, where so many Rewa Rams are struggling with toxic gases and human waste. They suffer disease and discrimination in return for cleaning the city's sewage system. Deadly job Rewa Ram is just one of thousands of sanitation workers in India who work hard to keep the cities, towns and villages clean. Most of them come from the community of lower caste Dalits as they are known, or untouchables. Health experts working in the field told me most of these workers would die before their retirement because of the poor health and safety conditions they work in. Their life expectancy is thought to be around 10 years less than the national average. Dr Ashish Mittal, an occupational health consultant, did a survey of the working conditions of sewage workers. He told me most of the workers suffer from chronic diseases, respiratory problems, skin disorders and allergies. He said they are constantly troubled by headaches and eye infections. I am not surprised. Rewa Ram was pulled out when he started feeling dizzy from the toxic fumes in the manhole. They were thick with a mixture of methane and hydrogen sulphide, both considered potentially fatal by the health experts. He needed water to clean himself, just a splash on his face could have made him feel better. His colleagues started banging on doors of the rich neighbourhood where he was working. Nobody opened their gate. Ancient sewers Human rights activists and trade unionists I have talked to ask a simple question. If the government of India can spend billions on its space programme, if Delhi can reach all its targets for the beautification of the city in time for the 2010 Commonwealth Games, including an underground train system, then why can't the sewage system be modernised? Why does it still rely on sending practically naked men down below the streets to clear the drains with their bare hands, being exposed to noxious gases which could take them to a premature grave? I put these questions to the authorities. The reply? "We are trying our best." It did not really feel good enough after what I had seen. The law courts have passed several orders banning human beings from going into the sewage system unless it is an emergency. In Delhi it looks as if every day is an emergency in the sewers. Smell of death I asked Rewa Ram, still breathless and covered with the sewage from the drain: "How do you feel about having to do this work?" With folded arms, he replied: "I am not educated, I come from a very poor family of untouchables. What else can I expect? "At least I have a government job and I am able to feed my children. I get into this hell everyday but then this is my job. "I live smelling death, but it is fine." But is it fine? Why should he expect so little just because he comes from a lower caste and is not educated? How can our so-called civil society be so indifferent to the millions like him? I, for one, am left feeling guilty. Rupa Jha's report on India's sewage cleaners can be heard on the One Planet programme on BBC World Service on Thursday 12 February 2009 to Saturday 14 February. After broadcast you can download the podcast from here. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/7872770.stm From virtuallyme at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 10:25:17 2009 From: virtuallyme at gmail.com (Rohan DSouza) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 10:25:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Pink Chaddi Campaign (Aditya Raj Kaul) Message-ID: <79e82f610902082055m524498d3ka1622695b238007e@mail.gmail.com> The media especially the electronic media of the 24/7 variety have hardly come out in shining colours recently, given their sensationalist coverage of variety of events starting from the Mumbai terror strikes to the recent Mangalore pub attack. Restrained and balanced reporting doesn't feature in their scheme of things as this wouldn't go with eye ball grabbing, shrill and voyueristic coverage. However, it is due to this media picking up the Magalore pub story that the agenda of the BJP government in Karnataka is at least coming out to some extent in the open through the responses and reactions of the state government. Take for example, the announcement made by the Home Minister of Karnatka, Acharya, of 'appointing an Ombudsman to monitor and control media reportage' *. When such proposals come from political parties that subscribe to and fawn over fascist parties of the past and their modus operandi , then this announcement needs to be taken and responded to very seriously. Terrorising women, minorities, dalits and other vulnerable groups and the media control (blackout?) proposed, the Gujarat model so dear to CM Yeddyurappa's heart, is well on its way to being rolled out. Rohan http://www.hindu.com/2009/02/09/stories/2009020957130100.htm * *State may appoint media ombudsman * Staff Correspondent * Media overreacting: Acharya; it will be death of democracy, says CPI(M) * * V.S. Acharya * MANGALORE: The State Government will consider appointing an Ombudsman to monitor and control media reportage, Home Minister V.S. Acharya said in Mangalore on Sunday. He blamed the media for "overreacting" to and "unnecessarily hyping up" the recent spate of vigilante attacks by alleged Hindutva groups. Addressing a gathering of top government officials, civil rights activists and representatives of Opposition parties from the districts of Dakshina Kannada and Udupi, at a 'peace committee meeting' at the Deputy Commissioner's office, Mr. Acharya said the freedom of the press could not be limitless. "The role of the Ombudsman will be to screen media reports that lack objectivity and pronounce 'judgments' on issues. The Ombudsman will also entertain complaints from the general public about media reports they find objectionable," he said. His proposal met with sharp criticism at the meeting. District secretary of the Communist Party of India (Marxist) B. Madhava said it was an attempt to prevent the media from reporting freely and fairly on the 'misrule' of the Bharatiya Janata Party Government. "If the State Government goes ahead with this fascist move, it will be the death of democracy," he said. The spokesperson for the Mangalore Catholic Diocese, Onil D'Souza, told Mr. Acharya that he should be concentrating on the issue and not blaming the media. "It is the prerogative of the media to play up or underplay an event. It does not undo the fact that there has been a systemic failure to curb the menace of vigilantism," he said. Alleging that the State Government was going soft on the "Hindutva brand of terrorism," Ismail N., principal of the Badria College, said all acts of violence aimed at instilling fear in the minds of the people should be considered as terrorism. He included moral vigilantism in that list and demanded strict action against those responsible for the recent attacks. Vice-president of the Kanara Chambers of Commerce and Industry G.G. Mohandas Prabhu said the recent vigilante attacks had adversely affected investments in the region. District in-charge Minister J. Krishna Palemar said whatever happened in the district or region should remain within it. "The city has been projected in poor light across the world because of the mistakes of the media," he said. Mr. Acharya said the State Government would ensure peaceful observance of Valentine's Day. "The police will be given a free hand to deal with any untoward incident that may arise on February 14," he said. Superintendent of Police (Dakshina Kannada) N. Satish Kumar said 120 more police constables would be pressed into service on Valentine's Day to thwart any attempt to disrupt festivities. Mr. Acharya also said the long-standing demand for a police commissionerate in the city would be met by March 31 this year. Once that happens, the present Superintendent of Police will be made in-charge of the rest of the district and a new officer will be brought in to take on the responsibility of Police Commissioner. In response, a participant pointed out that there was not a single senior police officer from the minority communities. "This is a planned conspiracy on the part of the BJP to 'saffronise' the police force," he alleged. > Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 20:44:05 +0530 > From: Aditya Raj Kaul > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The Pink Chaddi Campaign > To: sarai list > Message-ID: > <6353c690902080714y370b0e6fgb7624ff12e79602d at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Why not target/protest the media as well; who remained mute spectators to > the horrific drama that unfolded on that fateful day ? > > Just a suggestion, send them Pink Chaddis with "BREAKING NEWS" written on > them. > > On 2/8/09, nisha susan wrote: > > > > Dear All, > > > > You may have heard of the Pink Chaddi Campaign that kicked off three days > > ago to oppose the Sri Ram Sene. The campaign is growing exponentially > (1,300 > > at this point in the life of our Consortium of Pub-going, Loose and > Forward > > Women) and that is not surprising. Most women in this country have enough > > curbs on their lives without a whole new franchise cashing in with their > > bully-boy tactics. Of course, a lot of men have joined the group as well. > > > > Here is we want to do with the Pink Chaddi Campaign. Join in. Be > > imaginative, have fun and fight back! > > > > Step 1: It does not matter that many of us have not thought about > > Valentine's Day since we were 13. If ever. This year let us send the Sri > Ram > > Sene some love. Let us send them some PINK CHADDIS. > > > > Look in your closet or buy them cheap. Dirt-cheap. Make sure they are > PINK. > > Send them off to the Sene. > > > > The address to send the package is: > > Pramod Muthalik, > > Chief, Sri Rama Sene, > > #11, Behind New Bus Stand, Gokhul Road, Near Lakshmi Park, > > HUBLI - Karnataka > > > > If you don't want to mail it yourself, you can drop it off at the Chaddi > > Collection Points. We will be collecting across the country through this > > week and sending the packages on February 12. More information about > Chaddi > > Collectors in your city soon on our blog: > > http://thepinkchaddicampaign.blogspot.com/ > > > > Step 2: Send the Pink Chaddi Campaign a photograph of the package. > > > > Tell us how many chaddis you are sending out and inspire other women in > > other cities. You can either mail the information here or you can mail it > at > > our facebook address. > > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=49641698651&ref=mf > > > > > > Step 3: On Valentine's Day we do a Pub Bharo action. Go to a pub wherever > > you are. From Kabul to Chennai to Guwahati to Singapore to LA women have > > signed up. It does not matter if you are actually not a pub-goer or not > even > > much of a drinker. Let us raise a toast (it can be juice) to Indian > women. > > Take a photo or video. We will put it together (more on how later) and > send > > this as well to the Sri Ram Sene. > > > > Step 4: After Valentine's Day we should get some of our elected leaders > to > > agree that beating up women is ummm... AGAINST INDIAN CULTURE. > > > > For right now, ask not what Dr VS Acharya, Home Minister of Karnataka can > > do for you. Ask what you can do for him. Here is his blog. > > http://drvsacharya.blogspot.com. Send him some love. > > > > > > Nisha Susan > > For the Pink Chaddi Campaign > > http://thepinkchaddicampaign.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > -- > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > > From virtuallyme at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 11:06:38 2009 From: virtuallyme at gmail.com (Rohan DSouza) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 11:06:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Two sides of the same fundamentalist coin? Message-ID: <79e82f610902082136l5926cebcpc3a750873db99bf@mail.gmail.com> As has been discussed on this group before, fundamentalists acting as opinion and behaviour enforcers, of various religious persuasions, ultimately feed off each other. One cannot exist in the absence of the other. The response of the Muslim law board to the Sir Ram Sena and other Hindutva group's moral policing in Karnataka (in the article below), only reinforces this belief! Rohan http://www.hindu.com/2009/02/09/stories/2009020959480600.htm *Muslim law board member backs moral policing * Staff Correspondent * Abdul Rehman Quereshi says violence shouldn't be used * BHATKAL (UTTARA KANNADA DISTRICT): Assistant general secretary of the All-India Muslim Personal Law Board (AIMPLB) Abdul Rehman Quereshi has defended the stand of the Hindutva outfits on what they deem to be "moral violations." Although Mr. Quereshi condemned the use of force to enforce a moral code, he identified with the interventionist strategies of vigilante groups in coastal Karnataka. "There is nothing wrong with demanding ethical behaviour from people of your community. But these demands should be made by employing skills of persuasion and not through force," he told *The Hindu* on Saturday. Referring to members of Hindutva vigilante groups, he said: "We agree with them. We are also opposed to pub culture. We also dislike free inter-mixing between sexes," Mr. Quereshi said. Averring that it was all right for Muslim men to mix with Hindu men as also for Muslim women to mix with Hindu women, he said: "But, it is not proper that men and women from different religions mix freely. In fact, it is not proper for men and women from the same community also to freely mingle with each other." He also advocated marriages within the community even as he stressed that he saw no place for "romance" between men and women. "Every person – Hindu or Muslim – will have to answer their maker after death. There is no place for inter-religious marriages. How will they justify their deviation from their religion to god?" he questioned. Dismissing human rights groups that have described vigilantism as a social evil, he said: "it (vigilantism) is aimed at controlling social evils." From turbulence at turbulence.org Sat Feb 7 21:30:15 2009 From: turbulence at turbulence.org (Turbulence) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 11:00:15 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Turbulence Spotlight: "MrsCoryArcangel.com" by Scarlet Electric Message-ID: <01f801c9893d$2bf55ac0$83e01040$@org> February 7, 2009 Turbulence Spotlight: "MrsCoryArcangel.com" by Scarlet Electric http://turbulence.org/spotlight/mrscoryarcangel Part fansite, part cultural critique, part exercise in stalking, "MrsCoryArcangel.com" is a website devoted to Cory Arcangel. Featuring animated gifs, collage, and textured backgrounds, "MrsCoryArcangel.com" embraces an aesthetic deemed by Arcangel as "dirt style." Dirt style, as Arcangel defines it, is the "true spirit of the web." The site includes interpretations of Arcangel's projects-instead of endless SuperMario clouds, Princess Toadstool endlessly waiting for Mario. Instead of Number of the Beast compressed 666, the song 500 Miles by the Proclaimers compressed 500 times. BIOGRAPHY "Scarlet Electric" is the work of Rachelle Beaudoin and Jeanne Jo. Recent graduates of the Rhode Island School of Design's Digital+Media department, their collaborative work responds to the Internet and Internet Culture. They create physical manifestations of online spaces -- wearable, technology-based art objects. Their work has been shown in New York City at Conflux: The art and technology festival for the creative exploration of urban public space; in Dallas, Texas, at Social Fabrics: An Exhibition of Wearable, Mobile, and Socially Engaged Art, sponsored by CAA and the Leonardo Education Forum; at the University of Lapland in Finland; and at the RISD New England Alumni Biennial 2009. For more Turbulence Spotlights, please visit http://turbulence.org/spotlight Jo-Anne Green, Co-Director New Radio and Performing Arts, Inc.: http://new-radio.org New York: 917.548.7780 . Boston: 617.522.3856 Turbulence: http://turbulence.org Networked_Performance Blog: http://turbulence.org/blog Networked_Music_Review: http://turbulence.org/networked_music_review Upgrade! Boston: http://turbulence.org/upgrade New American Radio: http://somewhere.org _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From aliens at dataone.in Mon Feb 9 11:42:57 2009 From: aliens at dataone.in (bipin) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 11:42:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath References: <006701c98369$3b8cae90$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40901310944i5dfd0c1cpb9da416014037dab@mail.gmail.com> <005901c985c0$1e425b10$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40902030231p62cc4e76t2610d577e6ab39a@mail.gmail.com> <000901c985ef$0ff34950$0201a8c0@limo> <004001c986c9$cf9114b0$0201a8c0@limo> Message-ID: <001601c98a7d$74445470$0201a8c0@limo> Dear Rakesh, Sorry for the late reply. You are right, since independence, we talk about development. But, as mentioned earlier in my analysis, the real infrastructural development started in 2000 only and still it is going on at least in Gujarat, since UPA govt. has slow down this process. They have diverted infrastructural fund in few useless schemes like Compulsary Rojgar Scheme. I am sure this scheme's 60/70% fund is wasted by way of corruption. Such chip scheme is again to make show to gather vote only. This is not the way to root development. By such scheme you are making people lazy. They get assurance to get work (may be 100 days in year) from govt. and did not try their own will to do something. I read somewhere that such scheme implementation, Gujarat is way back than many states. Actually, I am happy that by not encouraging such scheme Gujarat will benefit in long run. Still Gujarat might be lagging in some criteria for example education. But, compared to previous years, things improving in the fast pace. Recently, in CA final toppers were 2 Gujarati's. In IAS exams Gujarati's participation increasing day by day. Gujarati's are grossly poor in English. For that at college level, govt. tried compulsory English medium at college in the year 2005, but due to stiff opposition from students could not implement it. Such factors are to be counted also. As mentioned earlier, we can not blame govt. for everything, public attitude also responsible. "Charity begins from home" you must have heard this sentence. The same is applicable for health factors also. To maintain health, all the individuals, family, streets must take care for their water, cleanliness, food habit. Government can provide first/second level filtered/chlorinated water to public, but than individual has to take care of own. Infrastructural development also includes improvement of Municipal Hospitals. This is also going on in fast pace and even today they are working better today than in the past. Nano car has got international attention and by getting this project (may be even after giving few more subsidies) Gujarat has got eye catchy international attention for the better investment destination. By this way, foreign investment will be possible in big way where Gujarat was comparatively leg behind and you have saw result in recent business summit where foreign country participation was very large including many Islamic countries. With the Development of ports, fishing activity has very little impact. Since with 1600 km long coast, hardly 10% coastal land area will be utilized for various ports. With the development of port export of Gujarat local industries will have boost and will be cheaper. This will benefit to overall industrial growth. For overall growth, 2 factors are important. Gross Domestic Product (GDP) and Human Development Index (HDI). If GDP does not show steady progress for certain threshold level, HDI is not possible to increase. For GDP growth is depending totally on govt. policies and efficiency, while for HDI development apart from govt. policies individual or public discipline/attitude has to be considered. To develop HDI, own self improvement has measure role. No doubt, crime ratio has increased today in India, but public own greed plays measure role in it. Our law is also not at all sufficient to reduce crime. Someone talks to change law from grass-root or implement some new strict law, pseudo-secularist and so called back-ward leader (for sake of their vote bank only, not real worry to uplift of back-ward or other class) will oppose heavily with argument that our constitution made by Dr. Ambedkar is best. Such attitude is biggest draw back in development. UPA has removed POTA with the argument of misuse of it. All the laws are misused some way or another, so we can't remove it. If POTA would have been there, I doubt recent massive attack in Mumbai could not be materialize. Since, such law restricts heavily local help to terrorists. thanks Bipin ----- Original Message ----- From: Rakesh Iyer To: bipin Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 9:14 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath Dear Bipin Terms like overall development and utmost benefits to all have always been used since 1950 in this very republic. But words can't take the place of facts, and vice versa. Therefore, one has to go by the statistics the given policies state. As the statistics point out, Gujarat is massively lagging behind on issues like education, health care and even having more cases of crimes on women and female foeticide. This has already been stated by others. Then what is this very development you and others are talking about, is beyond my comprehension/ Does development only mean that Tatas come and build Singur, getting a cheap subsidy of Rs. 30,000 crores and that gives so many cars, while people are not even in a position to buy two-wheelers, forget cars? Does development mean development of only the top 10-20% cream of the population, which is rich, and continues to grow richer by the day, while the poor get poorer and poorer? Since you have been stressing that Modi has brought development, would you kindly enlighten all of us regarding what is the definition of development, or at least, what constitutes development for a society, in your views. That would certainly be a important point to note. You have said that ports will be developed. This has nothing to do either with development of the lives of fishermen, nor it has anything to do with the interior regions of Gujarat. Then how come all areas will be developed? Finally, you have mentioned that BJP and Congress will keep caste factors in mind. And therefore if BJP has won, it would be because of development (that seems to be what you say). I don't say your perception is wrong, it could be right as well. But there is no statistical data you have on your side to prove it. The process which is required for this purpose is as follows: 1) Suppose take a constituency. Take all those candidates who got at least 1 vote. Find their vote percentages they got, as well as the percentage of people who voted. 2) Now, go to each and every voter who voted, and ask them whom did they vote for in 2007 elections. Also ask them whom they voted for in 2002 elections. 3) Then find out, how many voters have changed sides between the two elections. Also find out those voters who didn't vote in 2002 elections, but voted in 2007 elections, as well as new voters in this state, who voted for the first time in 2007 elections. 4) Try to find out the reasons for why these people, as in 3) voted the way they did. Try to find this swing, and also the party in whose favor this went. 5) Compare it with the results of the same constituency in 2002 and 2007 elections. Find out the votes secured by both the parties. And the swing seen in their votes between the two elections. If they are almost equal, or if this swing as measured by you is more than that actually seen in voting patterns in election, it's then and only then that you can say that BJP (or the Congress) won on say a particular issue in a particular constituency. And this has to be done for each and every constituency in Gujarat. Since this is not done, I can't believe that Modi was the master God of the universe and his development was alone able to win him the elections. And if that is what Modi and the BJP believe, I must definitely say that they are living in a fool's paradise, for they may be winning elections now, but if they tomorrow lose, they won't even know why they lost at all. And that is why I think Modi still doesn't know why his party did badly in the 2004 Lok Sabha polls. So, if people then say development brought the swing, in a general way, it is a perception and perceptions may not be wrong, but then they may not be right as well. Please put facts for your point. Regards Rakesh From vashsand at hotmail.com Mon Feb 9 11:47:39 2009 From: vashsand at hotmail.com (Sandeep) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 07:17:39 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Two sides of the same fundamentalist coin? In-Reply-To: <79e82f610902082136l5926cebcpc3a750873db99bf@mail.gmail.com> References: <79e82f610902082136l5926cebcpc3a750873db99bf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Just wait till church groups willl join them. And this has nothing to do with fundamentalism or nor-fundamentalism. f ex ashok gehlot he is congressman and he is against mall pub culture. This has more to do with sexual anxiety of indian society. although i agree thes idotic groups do reinforce each other. But what out Politically correct people tend to forget when they lay blame on babri masjid eposide to all ills of late indian history had congrees not played with islamic tradationalists under shah bano case and reopend janmbohmi controversy, BJP might still be a 5-10% party. Sandeep> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 11:06:38 +0530> From: virtuallyme at gmail.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: [Reader-list] Two sides of the same fundamentalist coin?> > As has been discussed on this group before, fundamentalists acting as> opinion and behaviour enforcers, of various religious persuasions,> ultimately feed off each other. One cannot exist in the absence of the> other. The response of the Muslim law board to the Sir Ram Sena and other> Hindutva group's moral policing in Karnataka (in the article below), only> reinforces this belief!> > Rohan> > http://www.hindu.com/2009/02/09/stories/2009020959480600.htm> > *Muslim law board member backs moral policing * Staff Correspondent * Abdul> Rehman Quereshi says violence shouldn't be used *> > BHATKAL (UTTARA KANNADA DISTRICT): Assistant general secretary of the> All-India Muslim Personal Law Board (AIMPLB) Abdul Rehman Quereshi has> defended the stand of the Hindutva outfits on what they deem to be "moral> violations."> > Although Mr. Quereshi condemned the use of force to enforce a moral code, he> identified with the interventionist strategies of vigilante groups in> coastal Karnataka.> > "There is nothing wrong with demanding ethical behaviour from people of your> community. But these demands should be made by employing skills of> persuasion and not through force," he told *The Hindu* on Saturday.> > Referring to members of Hindutva vigilante groups, he said: "We agree with> them. We are also opposed to pub culture. We also dislike free inter-mixing> between sexes," Mr. Quereshi said.> > Averring that it was all right for Muslim men to mix with Hindu men as also> for Muslim women to mix with Hindu women, he said: "But, it is not proper> that men and women from different religions mix freely. In fact, it is not> proper for men and women from the same community also to freely mingle with> each other."> > He also advocated marriages within the community even as he stressed that he> saw no place for "romance" between men and women. "Every person – Hindu or> Muslim – will have to answer their maker after death. There is no place for> inter-religious marriages. How will they justify their deviation from their> religion to god?" he questioned.> > Dismissing human rights groups that have described vigilantism as a social> evil, he said: "it (vigilantism) is aimed at controlling social evils."> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ More than messages–check out the rest of the Windows Live™. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/ From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 12:08:19 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 12:08:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Pink Chaddi Campaign (Rohan DSouza) Message-ID: <6353c690902082238xd1c265bte3160d85dcff2a62@mail.gmail.com> Mangalore's real shame - Talibanization of National Media The cat is out of the bag on the much hyped abduction of the daughter of a Kerala based CPI-M MLA from a bus near Mangalore. The Times Now makes this stunning disclosurethat the accused were no un-Hindu hoodlums but instead they were members of the DYFI, the CPI-Mafioso's student wing. *Two days after the attack on CPM MLA's daughter and her friend, the accused claim to be a part of CPM's student wing-the DYFI. More shockingly, these men say that their attempt was to protect the MLA's daughter's modesty. While police refused to share details,the arrested claim they belong to CPM's student wing - the DYFI. On asked as to which party they belonged, the driver of the bus the couple was travelling in - Arvind Das said, "DYFI." Surprisingly, the accused claim they were keeping the MLA's daughter out of harm's way. "They were oly trying to protect the girl's modesty from being compromised," defence lawyer told TIMES NOW. * This disclosure raises an interesting question if the whole episode was at the behest of the CPI-Mafioso father who perhaps may have shifted the blame once the story was grabbed the national media. Be that as it may, this episode once again exposes the Talibanised closed mindset of the 24×7 national media which no longer cares about approaching news with an open mind. Even before the police investigation was completed and the facts of the case were established, the media was quick to ascribe blame to saffron outfits. *Five persons, including the driverand the conductor of the bus from which the daughter of a CPI(M) MLA was dragged out and kidnapped, were arrested yesterday and two others are being questioned by police in connection with the incident, which evoked sharp protests across the country.* The alacrity with which the 24×7 media has conducted itself on events in Mangalore exposes its real intentions that this was never about unbiased reportage of facts but was really about tarnishing the reputation of the BJP Government in Karnataka in the minds of the cosmopolitan urban middle class voter in the run up to the general elections. This is not the first time we have seen the media conduct itself in this despicable fashion. The media's shameful and biased campaignahead of the Gujarat elections is well documented as was the media's surreptitious attempt at influencing the Karnataka electionsthrough exit polls that were far from credible. If Malegaon highlighted the flawed morality of the 24×7 mediain its attempt to draw equivalences, Mangalore has exposedthe media's real agenda. Now that the 24×7 media has been caught with its pants down can we expect #1 Renuka Choudary to shut up and spare us her moral sanctimony. #2 CPI-Mafioso to explain what its student wing was doing "saving" the MLA's daughter to come clean on the real story of the "abduction" #3 National media to tender an unqualified apology to the rest of us for their false reportage With preconcieved notions and deeply held prejudices coloring reportage on events in Mangalore it perhaps would be in order to demand of the media to show sufficient cause for why it should not be subject to a code of conduct to check this disturbing trend of "Talibanization". Link - http://offstumped.nationalinterest.in/2009/02/08/mangalores-real-shame-talibanization-of-national-media/ On 2/9/09, Rohan DSouza wrote: > > The media especially the electronic media of the 24/7 variety have hardly > come out in shining colours recently, given their sensationalist coverage > of > variety of events starting from the Mumbai terror strikes to the recent > Mangalore pub attack. Restrained and balanced reporting doesn't feature in > their scheme of things as this wouldn't go with eye ball grabbing, shrill > and voyueristic coverage. However, it is due to this media picking up the > Magalore pub story that the agenda of the BJP government in Karnataka is > at > least coming out to some extent in the open through the responses and > reactions of the state government. > > Take for example, the announcement made by the Home Minister of Karnatka, > Acharya, of 'appointing an Ombudsman to monitor and control media > reportage' > *. When such proposals come from political parties that subscribe to and > fawn over fascist parties of the past and their modus operandi , then this > announcement needs to be taken and responded to very seriously. Terrorising > women, minorities, dalits and other vulnerable groups and the media control > (blackout?) proposed, the Gujarat model so dear to CM Yeddyurappa's heart, > is well on its way to being rolled out. > > Rohan > > http://www.hindu.com/2009/02/09/stories/2009020957130100.htm > > * *State may appoint media ombudsman * Staff Correspondent * Media > overreacting: Acharya; it will be death of democracy, says CPI(M) * > > * V.S. Acharya * > > MANGALORE: The State Government will consider appointing an Ombudsman to > monitor and control media reportage, Home Minister V.S. Acharya said in > Mangalore on Sunday. He blamed the media for "overreacting" to and > "unnecessarily hyping up" the recent spate of vigilante attacks by alleged > Hindutva groups. > > Addressing a gathering of top government officials, civil rights activists > and representatives of Opposition parties from the districts of Dakshina > Kannada and Udupi, at a 'peace committee meeting' at the Deputy > Commissioner's office, Mr. Acharya said the freedom of the press could not > be limitless. "The role of the Ombudsman will be to screen media reports > that lack objectivity and pronounce 'judgments' on issues. The Ombudsman > will also entertain complaints from the general public about media reports > they find objectionable," he said. > > His proposal met with sharp criticism at the meeting. District secretary of > the Communist Party of India (Marxist) B. Madhava said it was an attempt to > prevent the media from reporting freely and fairly on the 'misrule' of the > Bharatiya Janata Party Government. > > "If the State Government goes ahead with this fascist move, it will be the > death of democracy," he said. > > The spokesperson for the Mangalore Catholic Diocese, Onil D'Souza, told Mr. > Acharya that he should be concentrating on the issue and not blaming the > media. "It is the prerogative of the media to play up or underplay an > event. > It does not undo the fact that there has been a systemic failure to curb > the > menace of vigilantism," he said. > > Alleging that the State Government was going soft on the "Hindutva brand of > terrorism," Ismail N., principal of the Badria College, said all acts of > violence aimed at instilling fear in the minds of the people should be > considered as terrorism. He included moral vigilantism in that list and > demanded strict action against those responsible for the recent attacks. > > Vice-president of the Kanara Chambers of Commerce and Industry G.G. > Mohandas > Prabhu said the recent vigilante attacks had adversely affected investments > in the region. > > District in-charge Minister J. Krishna Palemar said whatever happened in > the > district or region should remain within it. > > "The city has been projected in poor light across the world because of the > mistakes of the media," he said. Mr. Acharya said the State Government > would > ensure peaceful observance of Valentine's Day. "The police will be given a > free hand to deal with any untoward incident that may arise on February > 14," > he said. Superintendent of Police (Dakshina Kannada) N. Satish Kumar said > 120 more police constables would be pressed into service on Valentine's Day > to thwart any attempt to disrupt festivities. > > Mr. Acharya also said the long-standing demand for a police commissionerate > in the city would be met by March 31 this year. Once that happens, the > present Superintendent of Police will be made in-charge of the rest of the > district and a new officer will be brought in to take on the responsibility > of Police Commissioner. > > In response, a participant pointed out that there was not a single senior > police officer from the minority communities. "This is a planned conspiracy > on the part of the BJP to 'saffronise' the police force," he alleged. > > > > Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 20:44:05 +0530 > > From: Aditya Raj Kaul > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The Pink Chaddi Campaign > > To: sarai list > > Message-ID: > > <6353c690902080714y370b0e6fgb7624ff12e79602d at mail.gmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > > > Why not target/protest the media as well; who remained mute spectators to > > the horrific drama that unfolded on that fateful day ? > > > > Just a suggestion, send them Pink Chaddis with "BREAKING NEWS" written on > > them. > > > > On 2/8/09, nisha susan wrote: > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > You may have heard of the Pink Chaddi Campaign that kicked off three > days > > > ago to oppose the Sri Ram Sene. The campaign is growing exponentially > > (1,300 > > > at this point in the life of our Consortium of Pub-going, Loose and > > Forward > > > Women) and that is not surprising. Most women in this country have > enough > > > curbs on their lives without a whole new franchise cashing in with > their > > > bully-boy tactics. Of course, a lot of men have joined the group as > well. > > > > > > Here is we want to do with the Pink Chaddi Campaign. Join in. Be > > > imaginative, have fun and fight back! > > > > > > Step 1: It does not matter that many of us have not thought about > > > Valentine's Day since we were 13. If ever. This year let us send the > Sri > > Ram > > > Sene some love. Let us send them some PINK CHADDIS. > > > > > > Look in your closet or buy them cheap. Dirt-cheap. Make sure they are > > PINK. > > > Send them off to the Sene. > > > > > > The address to send the package is: > > > Pramod Muthalik, > > > Chief, Sri Rama Sene, > > > #11, Behind New Bus Stand, Gokhul Road, Near Lakshmi Park, > > > HUBLI - Karnataka > > > > > > If you don't want to mail it yourself, you can drop it off at the > Chaddi > > > Collection Points. We will be collecting across the country through > this > > > week and sending the packages on February 12. More information about > > Chaddi > > > Collectors in your city soon on our blog: > > > http://thepinkchaddicampaign.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > Step 2: Send the Pink Chaddi Campaign a photograph of the package. > > > > > > Tell us how many chaddis you are sending out and inspire other women in > > > other cities. You can either mail the information here or you can mail > it > > at > > > our facebook address. > > > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=49641698651&ref=mf > > > > > > > > > Step 3: On Valentine's Day we do a Pub Bharo action. Go to a pub > wherever > > > you are. From Kabul to Chennai to Guwahati to Singapore to LA women > have > > > signed up. It does not matter if you are actually not a pub-goer or not > > even > > > much of a drinker. Let us raise a toast (it can be juice) to Indian > > women. > > > Take a photo or video. We will put it together (more on how later) and > > send > > > this as well to the Sri Ram Sene. > > > > > > Step 4: After Valentine's Day we should get some of our elected > leaders > > to > > > agree that beating up women is ummm... AGAINST INDIAN CULTURE. > > > > > > For right now, ask not what Dr VS Acharya, Home Minister of Karnataka > can > > > do for you. Ask what you can do for him. Here is his blog. > > > http://drvsacharya.blogspot.com. Send him some love. > > > > > > > > > Nisha Susan > > > For the Pink Chaddi Campaign > > > http://thepinkchaddicampaign.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > -- > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- -- Aditya Raj Kaul From vashsand at hotmail.com Mon Feb 9 12:22:03 2009 From: vashsand at hotmail.com (Sandeep) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 07:52:03 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] The Pink Chaddi Campaign (Rohan DSouza) In-Reply-To: <6353c690902082238xd1c265bte3160d85dcff2a62@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690902082238xd1c265bte3160d85dcff2a62@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: What Adityaraj kaul says is again living example of touchiness of jansanghis. What he is saying about CPM might be true but we all know shiv sena, bajrangsdal etc have a long history with Valentines day. So denying it doesnt helps. Maybe jansanghis will do good job in pakisatani cabinet? Sandeep> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 12:08:19 +0530> From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The Pink Chaddi Campaign (Rohan DSouza)> > Mangalore's real shame - Talibanization of National> Media> > The cat is out of the bag on the much hyped abduction of the daughter of a> Kerala based CPI-M MLA from a bus near Mangalore.> > The Times Now makes this stunning> disclosurethat the> accused were no un-Hindu hoodlums but instead they were members of> the DYFI, the CPI-Mafioso's student wing.> > *Two days after the attack on CPM MLA's daughter and her friend, the accused> claim to be a part of CPM's student wing-the DYFI. More shockingly, these> men say that their attempt was to protect the MLA's daughter's modesty.> While police refused to share details,the arrested claim they belong to> CPM's student wing - the DYFI. On asked as to which party they belonged, the> driver of the bus the couple was travelling in - Arvind Das said, "DYFI."> Surprisingly, the accused claim they were keeping the MLA's daughter out of> harm's way. "They were oly trying to protect the girl's modesty from being> compromised," defence lawyer told TIMES NOW. *> > This disclosure raises an interesting question if the whole episode was at> the behest of the CPI-Mafioso father who perhaps may have shifted the blame> once the story was grabbed the national media.> > Be that as it may, this episode once again exposes the Talibanised closed> mindset of the 24×7 national media which no longer cares about approaching> news with an open mind.> > Even before the police investigation was completed and the facts of the case> were established, the media was quick to ascribe blame to saffron outfits.> > *Five persons, including the driverand the conductor of the bus from which> the daughter of a CPI(M) MLA was dragged out and kidnapped, were arrested> yesterday and two others are being questioned by police in connection with> the incident, which evoked sharp protests across the country.*> > The alacrity with which the 24×7 media has conducted itself on events in> Mangalore exposes its real intentions that this was never about unbiased> reportage of facts but was really about tarnishing the reputation of the BJP> Government in Karnataka in the minds of the cosmopolitan urban middle class> voter in the run up to the general elections.> > This is not the first time we have seen the media conduct itself in this> despicable fashion. The media's shameful and biased> campaignahead> of the Gujarat elections is well documented as was the media's> surreptitious attempt at influencing the Karnataka> electionsthrough> exit polls that were far from credible.> > If Malegaon highlighted the flawed morality of the 24×7> mediain> its attempt to draw equivalences, Mangalore> has exposedthe> media's real agenda.> > Now that the 24×7 media has been caught with its pants down can we expect> > #1 Renuka Choudary to shut up and spare us her moral sanctimony.> > #2 CPI-Mafioso to explain what its student wing was doing "saving" the MLA's> daughter to come clean on the real story of the "abduction"> > #3 National media to tender an unqualified apology to the rest of us for> their false reportage> > With preconcieved notions and deeply held prejudices coloring reportage on> events in Mangalore it perhaps would be in order to demand of the media to> show sufficient cause for why it should not be subject to a code of conduct> to check this disturbing trend of "Talibanization".> > Link -> http://offstumped.nationalinterest.in/2009/02/08/mangalores-real-shame-talibanization-of-national-media/> > On 2/9/09, Rohan DSouza wrote:> >> > The media especially the electronic media of the 24/7 variety have hardly> > come out in shining colours recently, given their sensationalist coverage> > of> > variety of events starting from the Mumbai terror strikes to the recent> > Mangalore pub attack. Restrained and balanced reporting doesn't feature in> > their scheme of things as this wouldn't go with eye ball grabbing, shrill> > and voyueristic coverage. However, it is due to this media picking up the> > Magalore pub story that the agenda of the BJP government in Karnataka is> > at> > least coming out to some extent in the open through the responses and> > reactions of the state government.> >> > Take for example, the announcement made by the Home Minister of Karnatka,> > Acharya, of 'appointing an Ombudsman to monitor and control media> > reportage'> > *. When such proposals come from political parties that subscribe to and> > fawn over fascist parties of the past and their modus operandi , then this> > announcement needs to be taken and responded to very seriously. Terrorising> > women, minorities, dalits and other vulnerable groups and the media control> > (blackout?) proposed, the Gujarat model so dear to CM Yeddyurappa's heart,> > is well on its way to being rolled out.> >> > Rohan> >> > http://www.hindu.com/2009/02/09/stories/2009020957130100.htm> >> > * *State may appoint media ombudsman * Staff Correspondent * Media> > overreacting: Acharya; it will be death of democracy, says CPI(M) *> >> > * V.S. Acharya *> >> > MANGALORE: The State Government will consider appointing an Ombudsman to> > monitor and control media reportage, Home Minister V.S. Acharya said in> > Mangalore on Sunday. He blamed the media for "overreacting" to and> > "unnecessarily hyping up" the recent spate of vigilante attacks by alleged> > Hindutva groups.> >> > Addressing a gathering of top government officials, civil rights activists> > and representatives of Opposition parties from the districts of Dakshina> > Kannada and Udupi, at a 'peace committee meeting' at the Deputy> > Commissioner's office, Mr. Acharya said the freedom of the press could not> > be limitless. "The role of the Ombudsman will be to screen media reports> > that lack objectivity and pronounce 'judgments' on issues. The Ombudsman> > will also entertain complaints from the general public about media reports> > they find objectionable," he said.> >> > His proposal met with sharp criticism at the meeting. District secretary of> > the Communist Party of India (Marxist) B. Madhava said it was an attempt to> > prevent the media from reporting freely and fairly on the 'misrule' of the> > Bharatiya Janata Party Government.> >> > "If the State Government goes ahead with this fascist move, it will be the> > death of democracy," he said.> >> > The spokesperson for the Mangalore Catholic Diocese, Onil D'Souza, told Mr.> > Acharya that he should be concentrating on the issue and not blaming the> > media. "It is the prerogative of the media to play up or underplay an> > event.> > It does not undo the fact that there has been a systemic failure to curb> > the> > menace of vigilantism," he said.> >> > Alleging that the State Government was going soft on the "Hindutva brand of> > terrorism," Ismail N., principal of the Badria College, said all acts of> > violence aimed at instilling fear in the minds of the people should be> > considered as terrorism. He included moral vigilantism in that list and> > demanded strict action against those responsible for the recent attacks.> >> > Vice-president of the Kanara Chambers of Commerce and Industry G.G.> > Mohandas> > Prabhu said the recent vigilante attacks had adversely affected investments> > in the region.> >> > District in-charge Minister J. Krishna Palemar said whatever happened in> > the> > district or region should remain within it.> >> > "The city has been projected in poor light across the world because of the> > mistakes of the media," he said. Mr. Acharya said the State Government> > would> > ensure peaceful observance of Valentine's Day. "The police will be given a> > free hand to deal with any untoward incident that may arise on February> > 14,"> > he said. Superintendent of Police (Dakshina Kannada) N. Satish Kumar said> > 120 more police constables would be pressed into service on Valentine's Day> > to thwart any attempt to disrupt festivities.> >> > Mr. Acharya also said the long-standing demand for a police commissionerate> > in the city would be met by March 31 this year. Once that happens, the> > present Superintendent of Police will be made in-charge of the rest of the> > district and a new officer will be brought in to take on the responsibility> > of Police Commissioner.> >> > In response, a participant pointed out that there was not a single senior> > police officer from the minority communities. "This is a planned conspiracy> > on the part of the BJP to 'saffronise' the police force," he alleged.> >> >> > > Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 20:44:05 +0530> > > From: Aditya Raj Kaul > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The Pink Chaddi Campaign> > > To: sarai list > > > Message-ID:> > > <6353c690902080714y370b0e6fgb7624ff12e79602d at mail.gmail.com>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1> > >> > > Why not target/protest the media as well; who remained mute spectators to> > > the horrific drama that unfolded on that fateful day ?> > >> > > Just a suggestion, send them Pink Chaddis with "BREAKING NEWS" written on> > > them.> > >> > > On 2/8/09, nisha susan wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear All,> > > >> > > > You may have heard of the Pink Chaddi Campaign that kicked off three> > days> > > > ago to oppose the Sri Ram Sene. The campaign is growing exponentially> > > (1,300> > > > at this point in the life of our Consortium of Pub-going, Loose and> > > Forward> > > > Women) and that is not surprising. Most women in this country have> > enough> > > > curbs on their lives without a whole new franchise cashing in with> > their> > > > bully-boy tactics. Of course, a lot of men have joined the group as> > well.> > > >> > > > Here is we want to do with the Pink Chaddi Campaign. Join in. Be> > > > imaginative, have fun and fight back!> > > >> > > > Step 1: It does not matter that many of us have not thought about> > > > Valentine's Day since we were 13. If ever. This year let us send the> > Sri> > > Ram> > > > Sene some love. Let us send them some PINK CHADDIS.> > > >> > > > Look in your closet or buy them cheap. Dirt-cheap. Make sure they are> > > PINK.> > > > Send them off to the Sene.> > > >> > > > The address to send the package is:> > > > Pramod Muthalik,> > > > Chief, Sri Rama Sene,> > > > #11, Behind New Bus Stand, Gokhul Road, Near Lakshmi Park,> > > > HUBLI - Karnataka> > > >> > > > If you don't want to mail it yourself, you can drop it off at the> > Chaddi> > > > Collection Points. We will be collecting across the country through> > this> > > > week and sending the packages on February 12. More information about> > > Chaddi> > > > Collectors in your city soon on our blog:> > > > http://thepinkchaddicampaign.blogspot.com/> > > >> > > > Step 2: Send the Pink Chaddi Campaign a photograph of the package.> > > >> > > > Tell us how many chaddis you are sending out and inspire other women in> > > > other cities. You can either mail the information here or you can mail> > it> > > at> > > > our facebook address.> > > > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=49641698651&ref=mf> > > >> > > >> > > > Step 3: On Valentine's Day we do a Pub Bharo action. Go to a pub> > wherever> > > > you are. From Kabul to Chennai to Guwahati to Singapore to LA women> > have> > > > signed up. It does not matter if you are actually not a pub-goer or not> > > even> > > > much of a drinker. Let us raise a toast (it can be juice) to Indian> > > women.> > > > Take a photo or video. We will put it together (more on how later) and> > > send> > > > this as well to the Sri Ram Sene.> > > >> > > > Step 4: After Valentine's Day we should get some of our elected> > leaders> > > to> > > > agree that beating up women is ummm... AGAINST INDIAN CULTURE.> > > >> > > > For right now, ask not what Dr VS Acharya, Home Minister of Karnataka> > can> > > > do for you. Ask what you can do for him. Here is his blog.> > > > http://drvsacharya.blogspot.com. Send him some love.> > > >> > > >> > > > Nisha Susan> > > > For the Pink Chaddi Campaign> > > > http://thepinkchaddicampaign.blogspot.com> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > _________________________________________> > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> > > > Critiques & Collaborations> > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with> > > > subscribe in the subject header.> > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list> > > > List archive: > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > --> > >> > > --> > > Aditya Raj Kaul> > >> > >> > _________________________________________> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> > Critiques & Collaborations> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with> > subscribe in the subject header.> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>> > > > > -- > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ More than messages–check out the rest of the Windows Live™. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/ From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 12:28:40 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 12:28:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Pink Chaddi Campaign (Rohan DSouza) In-Reply-To: References: <6353c690902082238xd1c265bte3160d85dcff2a62@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690902082258j444198e4j463703a9f4865a28@mail.gmail.com> Mr. Sandeep, Kindly introspect a bit on your alleged claims. I personally haven't favoured the acts of Sri Ram Sena. Moreover, If your entire lot of Jansanghi's are at fault, so are our communist jhollahwallah's. Jansanghi's may do a good job somewhere as you suggested. But those few jhollahwallah's who are left just spread hatred everywhere to destabilise the society. Kindly think before you write whatever. I had just posted an interesting counter article; which appeared on a well-known blog. It does pinch people and make them uncomfortable; but that is what truth does. isn't it ? :) On 2/9/09, Sandeep wrote: > > > What Adityaraj kaul says is again living example of touchiness of > jansanghis. What he is saying about CPM might be true but we all know shiv > sena, bajrangsdal etc have a long history with Valentines day. So denying > it doesnt helps. Maybe jansanghis will do good job in pakisatani cabinet? > > > Sandeep> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 12:08:19 +0530> From: > kauladityaraj at gmail.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: Re: > [Reader-list] The Pink Chaddi Campaign (Rohan DSouza)> > Mangalore's real > shame - Talibanization of National> Media< > http://offstumped.nationalinterest.in/2009/02/08/mangalores-real-shame-talibanization-of-national-media/>> > > The cat is out of the bag on the much hyped abduction of the daughter of > a> Kerala based CPI-M MLA from a bus near Mangalore.> > The Times Now makes > this stunning> disclosure< > http://www.timesnow.tv/Newsdtls.aspx?NewsID=28933>that the> accused were > no un-Hindu hoodlums but instead they were members of> the DYFI, the > CPI-Mafioso's student wing.> > *Two days after the attack on CPM MLA's > daughter and her friend, the accused> claim to be a part of CPM's student > wing-the DYFI. More shockingly, these> men say that their attempt was to > protect the MLA's daughter's modesty.> While police refused to share > details,the arrested claim they belong to> CPM's student wing - the DYFI. On > asked as to which party they belonged, the> driver of the bus the couple was > travelling in - Arvind Das said, "DYFI."> Surprisingly, the accused claim > they were keeping the MLA's daughter out of> harm's way. "They were oly > trying to protect the girl's modesty from being> compromised," defence > lawyer told TIMES NOW. *> > This disclosure raises an interesting question > if the whole episode was at> the behest of the CPI-Mafioso father who > perhaps may have shifted the blame> once the story was grabbed the national > media.> > Be that as it may, this episode once again exposes the Talibanised > closed> mindset of the 24×7 national media which no longer cares about > approaching> news with an open mind.> > Even before the police investigation > was completed and the facts of the case> were established, the media was > quick to ascribe blame to saffron outfits.> > *Five persons, including the > driverand the conductor of the bus from which> the daughter of a CPI(M) MLA > was dragged out and kidnapped, were arrested> yesterday and two others are > being questioned by police in connection with> the incident, which evoked > sharp protests across the country.*> > The alacrity with which the 24×7 > media has conducted itself on events in> Mangalore exposes its real > intentions that this was never about unbiased> reportage of facts but was > really about tarnishing the reputation of the BJP> Government in Karnataka > in the minds of the cosmopolitan urban middle class> voter in the run up to > the general elections.> > This is not the first time we have seen the media > conduct itself in this> despicable fashion. The media's shameful and biased> > campaign< > http://offstumped.nationalinterest.in/2007/11/27/gujarat-polls-2007-its-ndtv-ibn-versus-modi/>ahead> > of the Gujarat elections is well documented as was the media's> > surreptitious attempt at influencing the Karnataka> elections< > http://offstumped.nationalinterest.in/2008/07/31/cnn-ibn-boycott-many-sins/>through> > exit polls that were far from credible.> > If Malegaon highlighted the > flawed morality of the 24×7> media< > http://offstumped.nationalinterest.in/2008/10/24/cookbook-on-dealing-with-orwellian-media-tactics/>in> > its attempt to draw equivalences, Mangalore> has exposed< > http://offstumped.nationalinterest.in/2009/01/27/giving-oxygen-to-dinosaurs-and-rodents/>the> > media's real agenda.> > Now that the 24×7 media has been caught with its > pants down can we expect> > #1 Renuka Choudary to shut up and spare us her > moral sanctimony.> > #2 CPI-Mafioso to explain what its student wing was > doing "saving" the MLA's> daughter to come clean on the real story of the > "abduction"> > #3 National media to tender an unqualified apology to the > rest of us for> their false reportage> > With preconcieved notions and > deeply held prejudices coloring reportage on> events in Mangalore it perhaps > would be in order to demand of the media to> show sufficient cause for why > it should not be subject to a code of conduct> to check this disturbing > trend of "Talibanization".> > Link -> > http://offstumped.nationalinterest.in/2009/02/08/mangalores-real-shame-talibanization-of-national-media/> > > On 2/9/09, Rohan DSouza wrote:> >> > The media > especially the electronic media of the 24/7 variety have hardly> > come out > in shining colours recently, given their sensationalist coverage> > of> > > variety of events starting from the Mumbai terror strikes to the recent> > > Mangalore pub attack. Restrained and balanced reporting doesn't feature in> > > their scheme of things as this wouldn't go with eye ball grabbing, shrill> > > and voyueristic coverage. However, it is due to this media picking up the> > > Magalore pub story that the agenda of the BJP government in Karnataka is> > > at> > least coming out to some extent in the open through the responses > and> > reactions of the state government.> >> > Take for example, the > announcement made by the Home Minister of Karnatka,> > Acharya, of > 'appointing an Ombudsman to monitor and control media> > reportage'> > *. > When such proposals come from political parties that subscribe to and> > > fawn over fascist parties of the past and their modus operandi , then this> > > announcement needs to be taken and responded to very seriously. > Terrorising> > women, minorities, dalits and other vulnerable groups and the > media control> > (blackout?) proposed, the Gujarat model so dear to CM > Yeddyurappa's heart,> > is well on its way to being rolled out.> >> > Rohan> > >> > http://www.hindu.com/2009/02/09/stories/2009020957130100.htm> >> > * > *State may appoint media ombudsman * Staff Correspondent * Media> > > overreacting: Acharya; it will be death of democracy, says CPI(M) *> >> > * > V.S. Acharya *> >> > MANGALORE: The State Government will consider > appointing an Ombudsman to> > monitor and control media reportage, Home > Minister V.S. Acharya said in> > Mangalore on Sunday. He blamed the media > for "overreacting" to and> > "unnecessarily hyping up" the recent spate of > vigilante attacks by alleged> > Hindutva groups.> >> > Addressing a > gathering of top government officials, civil rights activists> > and > representatives of Opposition parties from the districts of Dakshina> > > Kannada and Udupi, at a 'peace committee meeting' at the Deputy> > > Commissioner's office, Mr. Acharya said the freedom of the press could not> > > be limitless. "The role of the Ombudsman will be to screen media reports> > > that lack objectivity and pronounce 'judgments' on issues. The Ombudsman> > > will also entertain complaints from the general public about media > reports> > they find objectionable," he said.> >> > His proposal met with > sharp criticism at the meeting. District secretary of> > the Communist Party > of India (Marxist) B. Madhava said it was an attempt to> > prevent the media > from reporting freely and fairly on the 'misrule' of the> > Bharatiya Janata > Party Government.> >> > "If the State Government goes ahead with this > fascist move, it will be the> > death of democracy," he said.> >> > The > spokesperson for the Mangalore Catholic Diocese, Onil D'Souza, told Mr.> > > Acharya that he should be concentrating on the issue and not blaming the> > > media. "It is the prerogative of the media to play up or underplay an> > > event.> > It does not undo the fact that there has been a systemic failure > to curb> > the> > menace of vigilantism," he said.> >> > Alleging that the > State Government was going soft on the "Hindutva brand of> > terrorism," > Ismail N., principal of the Badria College, said all acts of> > violence > aimed at instilling fear in the minds of the people should be> > considered > as terrorism. He included moral vigilantism in that list and> > demanded > strict action against those responsible for the recent attacks.> >> > > Vice-president of the Kanara Chambers of Commerce and Industry G.G.> > > Mohandas> > Prabhu said the recent vigilante attacks had adversely affected > investments> > in the region.> >> > District in-charge Minister J. Krishna > Palemar said whatever happened in> > the> > district or region should remain > within it.> >> > "The city has been projected in poor light across the world > because of the> > mistakes of the media," he said. Mr. Acharya said the > State Government> > would> > ensure peaceful observance of Valentine's Day. > "The police will be given a> > free hand to deal with any untoward incident > that may arise on February> > 14,"> > he said. Superintendent of Police > (Dakshina Kannada) N. Satish Kumar said> > 120 more police constables would > be pressed into service on Valentine's Day> > to thwart any attempt to > disrupt festivities.> >> > Mr. Acharya also said the long-standing demand > for a police commissionerate> > in the city would be met by March 31 this > year. Once that happens, the> > present Superintendent of Police will be > made in-charge of the rest of the> > district and a new officer will be > brought in to take on the responsibility> > of Police Commissioner.> >> > In > response, a participant pointed out that there was not a single senior> > > police officer from the minority communities. "This is a planned conspiracy> > > on the part of the BJP to 'saffronise' the police force," he alleged.> >> > >> > > Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 20:44:05 +0530> > > From: Aditya Raj Kaul < > kauladityaraj at gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The Pink Chaddi > Campaign> > > To: sarai list > > > Message-ID:> > > > <6353c690902080714y370b0e6fgb7624ff12e79602d at mail.gmail.com>> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1> > >> > > Why not > target/protest the media as well; who remained mute spectators to> > > the > horrific drama that unfolded on that fateful day ?> > >> > > Just a > suggestion, send them Pink Chaddis with "BREAKING NEWS" written on> > > > them.> > >> > > On 2/8/09, nisha susan wrote:> > > > >> > > > Dear All,> > > >> > > > You may have heard of the Pink Chaddi > Campaign that kicked off three> > days> > > > ago to oppose the Sri Ram > Sene. The campaign is growing exponentially> > > (1,300> > > > at this point > in the life of our Consortium of Pub-going, Loose and> > > Forward> > > > > Women) and that is not surprising. Most women in this country have> > > enough> > > > curbs on their lives without a whole new franchise cashing in > with> > their> > > > bully-boy tactics. Of course, a lot of men have joined > the group as> > well.> > > >> > > > Here is we want to do with the Pink > Chaddi Campaign. Join in. Be> > > > imaginative, have fun and fight back!> > > > >> > > > Step 1: It does not matter that many of us have not thought > about> > > > Valentine's Day since we were 13. If ever. This year let us > send the> > Sri> > > Ram> > > > Sene some love. Let us send them some PINK > CHADDIS.> > > >> > > > Look in your closet or buy them cheap. Dirt-cheap. > Make sure they are> > > PINK.> > > > Send them off to the Sene.> > > >> > > > > The address to send the package is:> > > > Pramod Muthalik,> > > > Chief, > Sri Rama Sene,> > > > #11, Behind New Bus Stand, Gokhul Road, Near Lakshmi > Park,> > > > HUBLI - Karnataka> > > >> > > > If you don't want to mail it > yourself, you can drop it off at the> > Chaddi> > > > Collection Points. We > will be collecting across the country through> > this> > > > week and > sending the packages on February 12. More information about> > > Chaddi> > > > > Collectors in your city soon on our blog:> > > > > http://thepinkchaddicampaign.blogspot.com/> > > >> > > > Step 2: Send the > Pink Chaddi Campaign a photograph of the package.> > > >> > > > Tell us how > many chaddis you are sending out and inspire other women in> > > > other > cities. You can either mail the information here or you can mail> > it> > > > at> > > > our facebook address.> > > > > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=49641698651&ref=mf> > > >> > > >> > > > > Step 3: On Valentine's Day we do a Pub Bharo action. Go to a pub> > > wherever> > > > you are. From Kabul to Chennai to Guwahati to Singapore to > LA women> > have> > > > signed up. It does not matter if you are actually > not a pub-goer or not> > > even> > > > much of a drinker. Let us raise a > toast (it can be juice) to Indian> > > women.> > > > Take a photo or video. > We will put it together (more on how later) and> > > send> > > > this as > well to the Sri Ram Sene.> > > >> > > > Step 4: After Valentine's Day we > should get some of our elected> > leaders> > > to> > > > agree that beating > up women is ummm... AGAINST INDIAN CULTURE.> > > >> > > > For right now, ask > not what Dr VS Acharya, Home Minister of Karnataka> > can> > > > do for you. > Ask what you can do for him. Here is his blog.> > > > > http://drvsacharya.blogspot.com. Send him some love.> > > >> > > >> > > > > Nisha Susan> > > > For the Pink Chaddi Campaign> > > > > http://thepinkchaddicampaign.blogspot.com> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > > _________________________________________> > > > reader-list: an > open discussion list on media and the city.> > > > Critiques & > Collaborations> > > > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with> > > > subscribe in the subject > header.> > > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list> > > > List archive: < > https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > --> > >> > > --> > > Aditya Raj Kaul> > >> > >> > > _________________________________________> > reader-list: an open discussion > list on media and the city.> > Critiques & Collaborations> > To subscribe: > send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with> > subscribe in the > subject header.> > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list> > List archive: < > https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>> > > > > -- > > -- > Aditya > Raj Kaul> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open > discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To > subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: < > https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________________________________ > More than messages–check out the rest of the Windows Live™. > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/ > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- -- Aditya Raj Kaul From aliens at dataone.in Mon Feb 9 12:46:50 2009 From: aliens at dataone.in (bipin) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 12:46:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath Message-ID: <00da01c98a86$609d92c0$0201a8c0@limo> Dear Taha, Sorry for the late reply. First of all, such gimmick created by party workers or chamchas. Of course I personally hate such chamchagiris. Please note that Modi has to fight against malicious propaganda made against him by Domestic and International English media, NGO's (NGO activities are totally biased and they act with the guidance of their source of funds only) and all pseudo-secularist parties. While, in the case of CM of MP, there is no such factor to fight. He just has to put his work honestly. So naturally, Modi has to put some extra effort to win and put the fact before public about this malicious propaganda by tolerating such gimmick to be more popular. thanks Bipin ----- Original Message ----- From: Taha Mehmood To: bipin Cc: sarai-list Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 5:12 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath Dear Bipin, You are absolutely right that, ' Modi mask, chhapan ki chhati is one type of publicity gimmick and nothing to do with Hindutva', I think it has got to do a lot with Modittva. In this regard can one not argue that by projecting himself as over and above the ideology of a political party or foregrounding himself over any other issue such as development or governance, Modi in this regard managed to occupy more space where nothing else matters. I paste for your benefit an excerpt from an article written by Swapan Dasgupta in Tehelka on various campaign strategies used by Arun Jaitely who was also the BJP prabhari for Gujarat- Jaitley faced another problem in Gujarat. A section of the RSS and Modi's detractors within the party were wary of any campaign which focussed on the iconic chief minister. Jaitley overruled these objections brusquely and insisted that the entire campaign be centred on Modi. His logic was simple: "Modi's personal popularity was greater than that of the BJP". In his view, in a Congress versus BJP fight, both sides were equal; in a Congress versus Modi fight, the winner was pre-determined. http://www.tehelka.com/story_main39.asp?filename=Ne070608master_ceremonies.asp If Modi was as efficient as an administrator as he claimed he was, then where was the need for any gimickry or iconoclasm? Did voters not elect the quiet MP CM Shivraj Singh Chauhan again and did the incumbent CM, not invite Mr. Modi during election time with a request to stay away from MP? Why was there no gimickry, no iconoclasm, no mass murder, no rapes. no need for any paranoia, or any chappan ki chatti during MP elections? The election was fought and won on development issues was it not? If Modi is such an iconic figure then where was the need for FCI or the National Health Survey and other agencis to suggest that more than three crore gujaraties are suffering from malnutrition, anemia or low body mass index? Regards Taha From aliens at dataone.in Mon Feb 9 13:36:41 2009 From: aliens at dataone.in (bipin) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 13:36:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Pink Chaddi Campaign (Aditya Raj Kaul) References: <79e82f610902082055m524498d3ka1622695b238007e@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c98a77$31da2110$0201a8c0@limo> <79e82f610902082148j1a4cb34t782f5f9e29e642b@mail.gmail.com> <002701c98a7f$f69724f0$0201a8c0@limo> <79e82f610902082310i35fd47f2m44bd1afb3898e22a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00ed01c98a8d$579c9070$0201a8c0@limo> Dear Rohan, You listen any public speech of Modi, he never comments against Muslim, but came heavily towards terrorist and their local support. Nothing wrong in it. The pseudo-secularist behavior has spreaded terrorism infact. Whenever he talk, talk for whole Gujarat people and this includes all the community. I am giving you macro analysis since independence and if you know India well you will understand this, which is as under. In the 60 years of Independence, the things improving at very slow rate. Today poverty is 25 % below poverty line which was about 75 % at the time independence. It took 50/55 years for reduction of 50% poverty and major reduction took place after 1991 only when reform started. Govt. job is to create opportunity by way of developing infrastructure in the field of Power, Road, Port, Airport which helps in the overall development. This key development was ignored since independence for about 50 years. During Narsimharao rule he took bold step by bringing Dr. Manmohansingh as Finance Minister, a non-politician and started free economy which was necessary to develop competitiveness in the Indian industries. At that time (1992-93) my friends/business ally telling that by cut in import duty Indian industries will die. But, I told them that nothing will happen and with this step Indian industries will grow very well and within 10 years Indian industries were capable to buy foreign industries. Rajiv Gandhi has also done good job in the communication field and brought computer age. At this stage also, infrastructure development was not upto the mark, which was started in big scale by Atalji in the field of Road, Power, Airports. Many were arguing why wasting in road to run luxury cars. I replied that 85% roads are used by trucks for transportation and with the improved quality of road transportation becomes chip and ultimately benefited to people only. This infrastructure of Road development running in the fast pace were slowed down drastically when UPA came to power because of orthodoc congressy, communists and Laluji. This infrastructural development should have been started after 5/10 years of independence and in that case India would have been super power by now. But sorry to say that Congress was after vote bank politics only (Particularly from the Indiara Gandhi rule. Corruption has also started heavily during her rule) and there policies were decided keeping in the mind of minority vote bank. So, to counter this minority vote bank BJP started vowing major vote bank of Hindu and vicious circle started. Of course they apply tit for tat policy. (Loha, lohe ko kate) Nuclear agreement with US was initiated by NDA govt. only and I doubt even congress would have thought in this line to do such agreement. However, it was initiated once one has to go on that direction and if Manmohansingh (non-politician, non-congress originally) was not there as PM, it would have not been done. BJP was opposing for some clause of it included on the pressure of US. This agreement was necessary because our nuclear plant producing power was not working without fuel like uranium and to run this plant we require the fuel else they would have been scrapped. So, since 5 years Mr. Modi has concentrated fully in the govt. efficiency, minimize corruption in the govt. dept. and development of infrastructure. No govt. can go to home by home and ask whether you have roti to eat or not. Govt. job is to provide infrastructure in efficient manner which is necessary for overall development. In India we talk about the lack of cleanliness of roads and public places. I do not blame any govt. for this, the un-disciplined public is responsible for it. To bring discipline, I think we should make compulsory NCC subject in the college. It was there earlier, but Indira has removed it. Today, if anyone talks to bring NCC back, National anthem/prayer like vandemataram, Surya-namaskar for exercise purpose (its best exercise) or any such type, but the so called pseudo-secularist comes in the media to oppose it with the argument that you are forcing Hinduism. They are not real secular, but worry for their vote bank. These are all steps bring discipline and nationality (not Hinduism). I remember when Atalji became PM, I wrote one letter to PMO with suggestions like: The reservation policy benefit can be given to those family having family planning (2 children) or at the most 3 children. I got just one line answer: Thanks. Good suggestion, we will think over it. I gave this suggestions to one my friend in the congress also, but he told that no one like to lose back-ward class votes by applying this, though its good suggestion. Vote bank politics is biggest hindrance in India to grow healthily. My dear friend, after reading above let me tell you that Gujarat was shining earlier also compared to other states. But, Modi was elected after riot election, was re-elected in 2007 election and at that time there was no riot issue at all and he was solely elected on the development issue. What Modi did actually is Minimize corruption, increased efficiency in govt., which is very important and concentrating on undeveloped various ports, he also put up Special Investment Region (SIR) in un-developed area for overall development. for all this effort, result can be seen by 2011/12 only. Let me tell you that certainly Gujarat GDP by 2011/12 will be very much higher than the current 10/11% The people like Tata, Anil, Mittal running a huge business umpire globally are not fool by praising him. Of course they are selfish for their motto, but they give huge employment directly and much larger scale indirectly by ancillary industries. Again let me tell you that 2002 riots are self reaction of the 59 people burned in the train coach where most of the people where on the road on mass base and police has its limitation to act strictly in that case. If coach burning incident would have not occurred, riot was also not there. In the past, Gujarat riots where there in much larger scale than 2002 and lasted for about 1 months and that was totally state sponsored by Madhavsinh solanki, Chiman Patel and during that Hindu suffer a lot. You have mentioned that Muslims have been pushed to ghettos in the old city, but why this has happened that they themselves has to reterospect. No body forced to went there, they did it by themselves. Shah commission was appointed by Suggestion of Supreme Court panel and bannerjee commission was proved illegal. Everyone knows that it was Lalu gimmick before Bihar election. However, he lost there and people becomes smart enough to understand the things unlike past. Your data shows, that from 2002 after fall for couple of years, in it is in the increasing trend and I am sure it will increase further heavily in the years to come and you will notice that. Modi took charge in 2001 end only. If you have read today's Times of India 8/2/09 where in employment since last 5 years, Gujarat is topper and increased employment heavily. I have never said what happened violence is good. Within 4/5 days most of the violence were under control, may be it has spreadded in the new parts and got controlled thereafter. Whatever violence wherever happened is always bad. Since ancient times India and Indians are peace lovers and so they ruled under Muslims and British for long time. But, when the things went beyond control due to whatever reason (Past history as mentioned above or continuous local support for terrorist activity) it happens. Babri Masjid demolishen was also not good. But, there is historical place of Hindu Lord Rama birth place deep routed in the mind of whole of India and the place of mosque where nothing was happening since years and remain idle, with broad mind, Muslim community should understand and would have given the place for building temple. This very long issue and repeated requests was denied by Babri committee. One time came Hindu got anxious and things happened. If Muslim and other minority staying in India stays here as Indian and stop their mental physical support to the terrorist and you will see the difference. thanks Bipin ----- Original Message ----- From: Rohan DSouza To: bipin Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The Pink Chaddi Campaign (Aditya Raj Kaul) Dear Bipin, When it comes to Narendra Modi, his acts and words speak for themselves and most of these acts and words point out to his very clear communal and fascist agenda. I have a friend who attended a Modi rally a few years ago where he was at his vitriolic and vicious best where Muslims were concerned. The friend (who incidentally is Hindu) recollected this with disgust! As far as the Godhra incident and the riots after it are concerned its a well documented fact thanks to the Tehelka sting and other such exposes that the administration openly supported the rioting and helped rioters target Muslim areas! Now what happened at the Godhra railway station itself is far from clear with contradicting reports coming from different govt committees. Now the post 2002 Gujarat, especially Ahmedabad, where an aunt and cousins of mine stay has become so polarised. They (the relatives) say that the Muslims have been pushed to ghettos in the old city. All of this hardly points to just and humane governance. As far as the development that Modi has supposed to have done, there are many articles which bust this myth. I'm posting one below for your reference, which incidentally was posted in he readerslist e-group. This one actually points out the opposite of what you say, investment in Gujarat has actually come down post 2002! I'm quoting some relevant parts from it, the full article is pasted below my mail: 'In September 1995, the state's share was 14.45% of all projects under implementation in the country. At 9.43%, its nearest rival, Maharashtra, was a poor second. Maharashtra overtook Gujarat, but in December 2001 its lead over Gujarat was less than a percentage point.Then something happened, and by September 2002, Gujarat's share fell to 8.78%; three years later, it was down to 7.67%, with Orissa ahead of Gujarat, and Karnataka close behind. Since then, Gujarat has recovered, but only slowly, and today commands 9.57% of investments in India. It is behind Orissa and Andhra Pradesh. Maharashtra is only half a per cent behind, and Haryana, West Bengal and Karnataka are trying to catch up.' His development work, including for eg, the Sabarmati redevlopment plan, which again a cousin who lives there talks about, is primarily aimed at the middle and upper class Hindus at the cost of slum dwellers! He and his development, just like Krishna in Karnataka and Chandrababu Naidu in AP, benefits the cities and middle, upper class groups as well as industries. The Narmada dam touted to bring water to the poor in Gujarat has only benefited the powerful and rich sugarcane farmers and cities in Gujarat again at the cost of displacement and destruction of adivasis and other poor groups in the catchment areas. So, I for one certainly do not buy into Modi's supposed development and transparent administration/governance myth! As far as comparing a Modi and a Nehru are concerned, the prime differentiator to me would be the ideology that drives them. While Modi spews hate towards Muslims and other minorities, I dont recall hearing of such utterances from Nehru! The Sikh riots that happened in 1984 are just as condemnable as the 2002 Gujarat riots and statements and actions of 'leader's' such as Rajiv Gandhi ('when a big tree falls...') are just as despicable as Modi and Advanis! Rajiv Gandhi also played a role in the communalisation of the country by peddling 'soft' Hindutva through the opening of the gates of the disputed site, thus paving the way for the violent and destructive Ramjanmaboomi movement! I for one dont consider Rajiv Gandhi dynamic, but a weak and incompetent politician, who made many blunders! And the less said of the dynastic politics of the congress, the better! The unfortunate part is that in 1984 the electronic media (doordarshan) was completely state controlled and therefore could not bring the dastardly acts of those in the thick of action to light, very unlike in 2002! That however should not stop for a demand for those responsible (Jagdish Tytler etc) to be brought to book. Tehelka, again has done some exemplary coverage to expose Tytler and his recent manipulations of key witnesses etc! Regards, Rohan The entire article: http://www.livemint.com/2009/01/21220302/The-real-Modi-story.html The canonization has begun. Ratan Tata says investors not yet in Gujarat are "stupid". Anil Ambani and Sunil Bharti Mittal hope to see Gujarat's chief minister, Narendra Modi, as India's prime minister. Kumar Mangalam Birla, Mukesh Ambani and Shashi Ruia have joined the chorus of approval. Businesses like Modi because he has rejuvenated Gujarat. Under his watch, the state has upgraded ports and improved the quality of roads dramatically. He is credited with reducing corruption, eliminating red tape, providing uninterrupted electricity to all villages and harnessing rainwater. The number of girls attending and staying in schools has risen. Gujarat's bureaucracy swears by Modi. At last week's Vibrant Gujarat Global Investors' Summit, investors promised projects worth Rs12 trillion, or $247 billion. That dwarfs commitments for the entire country. Gujarat is trying to regain its lead among states in private investment,which it lost post-Godhra You might think that Gujarat is outracing and outpacing India, and Modi is singularly responsible for the boom. In fact, according to the Centre for Monitoring Indian Economy, Gujarat commanded a huge lead over other states: In September 1995, the state's share was 14.45% of all projects under implementation in the country. At 9.43%, its nearest rival, Maharashtra, was a poor second. Maharashtra overtook Gujarat, but in December 2001 its lead over Gujarat was less than a percentage point. Then something happened, and by September 2002, Gujarat's share fell to 8.78%; three years later, it was down to 7.67%, with Orissa ahead of Gujarat, and Karnataka close behind. Since then, Gujarat has recovered, but only slowly, and today commands 9.57% of investments in India. It is behind Orissa and Andhra Pradesh. Maharashtra is only half a per cent behind, and Haryana, West Bengal and Karnataka are trying to catch up. That "something" is the post-Godhra violence. From 2002, smart money began investing elsewhere. It has since started returning, but despite Modi's administrative skills, his state no longer leads the inward investment tables. This is not to undermine Gujarat, but last week's planned investments are only memorandums of understanding (MoUs). A study of foreign direct investments in China in the 1990s showed that China's claimed foreign direct investment was typically six-eight times larger than actual inflow. The statistics included the cost of land the government was giving; most projects included loans from financial institutions, as well as other in-kind contributions. The figure of $247 billion should be seen in this perspective. The MoUs raise more questions. For example, a 10,000MW coal-fired thermal power plant costs Rs40,000 crore, but one such investment is claimed to be worth Rs87,000 crore. Granted, the project includes a 5,000-acre special economic zone (SEZ), but an SEZ does not have to cost more than a major power plant. Infrastructure analysts say the figures for megawatt generation and power project costs don't add up. Expansion plans for some ports and proposed townships appear significantly more than the cost of similar projects elsewhere in India. We must remember, then, that what were signed last week were MoUs, not cheques. The sobering reality is that Gujarat had the lead in 1995 which it lost after the post-Godhra violence, and is trying to regain its erstwhile pre-eminent position. The fundamentals to attract investments—industrial peace, great infrastructure and ancillary industries—preceded Modi's tenure. The Narmada dams were already under construction, workers polished diamonds in Palanpur, petrochemicals and cars were made in Vadodara, milk flowed from Anand, yarn churned out in Hazira and a refinery was being built in Jamnagar, much before Modi took office. Gujarat's rural prosperity is substantially, though not entirely, due to significant remittances from overseas Gujaratis. It is odd, therefore, to credit Modi with Gujarat's vibrancy. And it is hard not to blame his government for the colossal failure to protect civilians during the anti-Muslim violence in 2002. That alone disqualifies him from holding office. But Gujaratis have continued to elect him. Fair enough; but the rest of India does not have to do so. The story of the drop in Gujarat's share of projects under implementation is not widely known; Modi's governance hasn't helped the state overcome the damage that massacre caused. Money went elsewhere and it is returning only now. Modi's supporters say he has shown Muslims their place in India. He can probably make trains run on time as well. But at what cost to the nation? Anil Ambani quoted his father, the late Dhirubhai, who called Modi "lambi race ka ghoda", or the horse for the long race. The eyes of a champion thoroughbred are covered to prevent distractions and the jockey whips him, making him run faster. Such a horse only thinks of the destination, not how to get there. Another Gujarati—Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi—saw it differently: "Our progress towards the goal will be in exact proportion to the purity of our means… As the means, so the end." He did not rush headlong; he walked alone. Salil Tripathi is a writer based in London. Your comments are welcome at views at livemint.com On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 12:00 PM, bipin wrote: Dear Rohan, You have full right to react what happen in Karnataka. What I want to say, it should not be biased. What happen in Karntaka is wrong and it is also true by repeating (just to increase their viewer-ship) for couple of days in media, both side public gets anxious and leads to violence. In many occasion Media's behavior is irresponsible. In case of Gujarat, media played key role for spreading violence in Gujarat. Please read carefully following facts. I have send this article to many and agreed with me even Modi critics also. First of all, for 2002 riots Mr. Narendra Modi is not solely responsible. It was reaction of 59 people burned in train coach. In this riot when even upper middle class were on the road for reaction mode the police have its limitations to act strictly. Just like Sikh riot which was in very large scale than Gujarat riot, but at that time no body blamed the than congress government for their in-activeness. However, Gujarat is always soft target for so called secularists, NGO and many English media. However, if we believe that it's a great mistake of Mr. Narendra Modi, but all the great leaders made blunders in the past. Mr. Nehru, no doubt he was great leader, but his mistakes to take Kashmir issue in the UN in spite of warning from fellow members. For this mistake, we are still suffering. Mrs. Indira Gandhi was also great leader, but deviate court verdicts and imposes of emergency was non-regrettable mistakes. The dynamic PM like Rajiv Gandhi has reverted Shah Bano court verdict just to appease minority and there after open Ram-Mandir lock to appease Hindu. Actually this is the root of Hindu-Muslim riot occur thereafter. Mr. Narendra Modi Achievements in this 7 years rule are: (1) Dynamic and quick administration to run efficient Government. (2) Minimize corruption. (3) He has stopped chairmanship post for politician and that way govt PSU's become profitable. Such step should follow by all the states and union govt. (4) Huge MOU is not his achievement, his achievement is to provide better and efficient infrastructure and business friendly environment and investment bound to come as ultimate result. (5) When he took the charge, GEB loss was about 2000 crores, but now it's running in profit. This is one example. Many PSU's started profit during his rule. (6) Almost more than 95% villages have 24 hours power. This is not a small achievement. (7) Even central govt. has praised the Gujarat govt. in many occasion and they have followed some similar foot steps. This is few achievement of Mr. Modi I have mentioned, but there are many things and if I mention all these, this article become limit less. What is good must be appreciated and with his capabilities if country can progress, one should not hesitate to take Mr. Narendra Modi services at the center stage. Now, time has come to govern the country by efficient, dynamic and knowledgeable persons irrespective of he/she being a politician or non-politician. So, Ranjan Kamath movement to call Cellular off day of Tata, Reliance, Airtel is irrelevant in this global competitive and hi-tech era. It is foolishness to support such movement. By the way, I am not belonging to any political party. thanks Bipin ----- Original Message ----- From: Rohan DSouza To: bipin Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The Pink Chaddi Campaign (Aditya Raj Kaul) Dear Bipin, The repsonse was a comment on the rollout of events unfolding in Karnataka, which clearly point out to a well thought out fascist strategy. And yes I have no doubt in my mind (and am sure neither do Advani, Modi etc) that the BJP and the sangh parivar admire fascism and its most prominent pratcitioner, Hitler. Both these gentlemen as well as the founding fathers of the Snagh parivar (Gowalkar, Sarvakar etc) have gone on record praising Hitler and his approach. The UPA government and its proposal to control the media also needs to be responded to and reacted to in its context. Right now, my comments are in the context of what is happening in Karnataka. Regards, Rohan On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:58 AM, bipin wrote: Dear Rohan, Your quick reaction on media blockage by Karnataka minister from the media report only, without going deeply in the matter. I hope you must have acted more rigorously when report that UPA govt. was on the way to introduce bill in the parliament to put control over media. I am sure not you must have not reacted on it this much sharply. Without understanding deeply, it is fashion to blame BJP as fascist party. By the way, I am not belonging to any plitical party. thanks Bipin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rohan DSouza" To: Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The Pink Chaddi Campaign (Aditya Raj Kaul) The media especially the electronic media of the 24/7 variety have hardly come out in shining colours recently, given their sensationalist coverage of variety of events starting from the Mumbai terror strikes to the recent Mangalore pub attack. Restrained and balanced reporting doesn't feature in their scheme of things as this wouldn't go with eye ball grabbing, shrill and voyueristic coverage. However, it is due to this media picking up the Magalore pub story that the agenda of the BJP government in Karnataka is at least coming out to some extent in the open through the responses and reactions of the state government. Take for example, the announcement made by the Home Minister of Karnatka, Acharya, of 'appointing an Ombudsman to monitor and control media reportage' *. When such proposals come from political parties that subscribe to and fawn over fascist parties of the past and their modus operandi , then this announcement needs to be taken and responded to very seriously. Terrorising women, minorities, dalits and other vulnerable groups and the media control (blackout?) proposed, the Gujarat model so dear to CM Yeddyurappa's heart, is well on its way to being rolled out. Rohan http://www.hindu.com/2009/02/09/stories/2009020957130100.htm * *State may appoint media ombudsman * Staff Correspondent * Media overreacting: Acharya; it will be death of democracy, says CPI(M) * * V.S. Acharya * MANGALORE: The State Government will consider appointing an Ombudsman to monitor and control media reportage, Home Minister V.S. Acharya said in Mangalore on Sunday. He blamed the media for "overreacting" to and "unnecessarily hyping up" the recent spate of vigilante attacks by alleged Hindutva groups. Addressing a gathering of top government officials, civil rights activists and representatives of Opposition parties from the districts of Dakshina Kannada and Udupi, at a 'peace committee meeting' at the Deputy Commissioner's office, Mr. Acharya said the freedom of the press could not be limitless. "The role of the Ombudsman will be to screen media reports that lack objectivity and pronounce 'judgments' on issues. The Ombudsman will also entertain complaints from the general public about media reports they find objectionable," he said. His proposal met with sharp criticism at the meeting. District secretary of the Communist Party of India (Marxist) B. Madhava said it was an attempt to prevent the media from reporting freely and fairly on the 'misrule' of the Bharatiya Janata Party Government. "If the State Government goes ahead with this fascist move, it will be the death of democracy," he said. The spokesperson for the Mangalore Catholic Diocese, Onil D'Souza, told Mr. Acharya that he should be concentrating on the issue and not blaming the media. "It is the prerogative of the media to play up or underplay an event. It does not undo the fact that there has been a systemic failure to curb the menace of vigilantism," he said. Alleging that the State Government was going soft on the "Hindutva brand of terrorism," Ismail N., principal of the Badria College, said all acts of violence aimed at instilling fear in the minds of the people should be considered as terrorism. He included moral vigilantism in that list and demanded strict action against those responsible for the recent attacks. Vice-president of the Kanara Chambers of Commerce and Industry G.G. Mohandas Prabhu said the recent vigilante attacks had adversely affected investments in the region. District in-charge Minister J. Krishna Palemar said whatever happened in the district or region should remain within it. "The city has been projected in poor light across the world because of the mistakes of the media," he said. Mr. Acharya said the State Government would ensure peaceful observance of Valentine's Day. "The police will be given a free hand to deal with any untoward incident that may arise on February 14," he said. Superintendent of Police (Dakshina Kannada) N. Satish Kumar said 120 more police constables would be pressed into service on Valentine's Day to thwart any attempt to disrupt festivities. Mr. Acharya also said the long-standing demand for a police commissionerate in the city would be met by March 31 this year. Once that happens, the present Superintendent of Police will be made in-charge of the rest of the district and a new officer will be brought in to take on the responsibility of Police Commissioner. In response, a participant pointed out that there was not a single senior police officer from the minority communities. "This is a planned conspiracy on the part of the BJP to 'saffronise' the police force," he alleged. Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 20:44:05 +0530 From: Aditya Raj Kaul Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The Pink Chaddi Campaign To: sarai list Message-ID: <6353c690902080714y370b0e6fgb7624ff12e79602d at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Why not target/protest the media as well; who remained mute spectators to the horrific drama that unfolded on that fateful day ? Just a suggestion, send them Pink Chaddis with "BREAKING NEWS" written on them. On 2/8/09, nisha susan wrote: > > Dear All, > > You may have heard of the Pink Chaddi Campaign that kicked off three > days > ago to oppose the Sri Ram Sene. The campaign is growing exponentially (1,300 > at this point in the life of our Consortium of Pub-going, Loose and Forward > Women) and that is not surprising. Most women in this country have > enough > curbs on their lives without a whole new franchise cashing in with > their > bully-boy tactics. Of course, a lot of men have joined the group as > well. > > Here is we want to do with the Pink Chaddi Campaign. Join in. Be > imaginative, have fun and fight back! > > Step 1: It does not matter that many of us have not thought about > Valentine's Day since we were 13. If ever. This year let us send the > Sri Ram > Sene some love. Let us send them some PINK CHADDIS. > > Look in your closet or buy them cheap. Dirt-cheap. Make sure they are PINK. > Send them off to the Sene. > > The address to send the package is: > Pramod Muthalik, > Chief, Sri Rama Sene, > #11, Behind New Bus Stand, Gokhul Road, Near Lakshmi Park, > HUBLI - Karnataka > > If you don't want to mail it yourself, you can drop it off at the > Chaddi > Collection Points. We will be collecting across the country through > this > week and sending the packages on February 12. More information about Chaddi > Collectors in your city soon on our blog: > http://thepinkchaddicampaign.blogspot.com/ > > Step 2: Send the Pink Chaddi Campaign a photograph of the package. > > Tell us how many chaddis you are sending out and inspire other women in > other cities. You can either mail the information here or you can mail > it at > our facebook address. > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=49641698651&ref=mf > > > Step 3: On Valentine's Day we do a Pub Bharo action. Go to a pub > wherever > you are. From Kabul to Chennai to Guwahati to Singapore to LA women > have > signed up. It does not matter if you are actually not a pub-goer or not even > much of a drinker. Let us raise a toast (it can be juice) to Indian women. > Take a photo or video. We will put it together (more on how later) and send > this as well to the Sri Ram Sene. > > Step 4: After Valentine's Day we should get some of our elected > leaders to > agree that beating up women is ummm... AGAINST INDIAN CULTURE. > > For right now, ask not what Dr VS Acharya, Home Minister of Karnataka > can > do for you. Ask what you can do for him. Here is his blog. > http://drvsacharya.blogspot.com. Send him some love. > > > Nisha Susan > For the Pink Chaddi Campaign > http://thepinkchaddicampaign.blogspot.com > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- -- Aditya Raj Kaul _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From anansi1 at earthlink.net Mon Feb 9 13:54:47 2009 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul D. Miller) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 03:24:47 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [Reader-list] The Illusion of Security: 9/11 and aftershave Message-ID: <7983551.1234167888059.JavaMail.root@mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> The Unkempt Results of Post-9/11 Airport Security Rules A humorous review of the "illusion of safety" airport security brings-along with the lack of personal hygiene products By Steve Mirsky Scientific American Magazine January 30, 2009 http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=not-a-close-shave&sc=CAT_SP_20090202 "'Curiouser and curiouser!' cried Alice (she was so much surprised, that for the moment she quite forgot how to speak good English). 'Now I'm opening out like the largest telescope that ever was! Good-by, feet!... Oh, my poor little feet, I wonder who will put on your shoes and stockings for you now, dears?'" The smart money says that it won't be the folks from the Transportation Security Administration, who make two million travelers take their shoes off every day at airports in the U.S. Lewis Carroll's Alice would have had trouble distinguishing reality from Wonderland had she been with me on the Sunday after Thanksgiving as I watched a TSA officer confiscate my father's aftershave at the airport in Burlington, Vt. It was a 3.25-ounce bottle, clearly in violation of the currently permissible three-ounce limit for liquids. Also clear was the bottle, which was obviously only about a quarter full. So even the members of some isolated human populations that have never developed sophisticated systems for counting could have determined that the total amount of liquid in the vessel was far less than the arbitrarily standardized three ounces. But the TSA guy took the aftershave, citing his responsibility to go by the volume listed on the label. (By the way, the three-ounce rule is expected to be phased out late in 2009. Why not tomorrow? Because of the 300-day-rules-change rule, which I just made up.) Feeling curiouser, I did a gedankenexperiment: What if the bottle had been completely empty-would he have taken it then? No, I decided. When empty, the bottle becomes just some plastic in a rather mundane topological configuration. Not to mention that if you really banned everything with the potential to hold more than three ounces of liquid, you couldn't let me have my shoes back. You also couldn't allow me to bring my hands onboard. I kept these thoughts to myself, of course, because I wanted to fly home, not spend the rest of the day locked in a security office explaining what a gedankenexperiment was. I first commented on what I used to call "the illusion of security" in this space in July 2003, after attending a conference on freedom and privacy. We heard the story of an airline pilot who had his nail clippers snatched away by the TSA just before boarding his plane. He then walked into a cockpit equipped with an ax. (Which is a horrible tool for cutting your nails, although, I have to admit, my dad might try. A former U.S. Marine and builder, he does his manicuring with a foot-long metal carpenter's file and some 80-grit sandpaper. And you wonder how I got to be this way.) It used to be that you could bring shaving cream with you when boarding a plane, but they would take away your razor. Now you can carry on a razor, and they take away your shaving cream. (They did indeed seize my dad's shaving cream at the airport in Fort Lauderdale the Monday before Thanksgiving.) Although the mostest curiouser thing has to be when hundreds of people docilely snake through security lines amid announcements that the "threat of a terrorist attack is high." Compared to what? The day before, perhaps, when the real threat posed by terrorists to your life was much, much smaller than your chances of dying in the bathtub. And today the threat is only much smaller than your chances of dying in the bathtub. Here's how you know that the terrorist threat isn't really high: the airport is still open, and your flight hasn't been canceled. A much better term than "illusion of security" can be found in an article by Jeffrey Goldberg in the November 2008 issue of the Atlantic: "security theater" (www.theatlantic.com/doc/200811/airport-security). Goldberg holds that TSA agents and passengers go through performances designed to make everybody feel better, but with little effect. He talks about how he has been able to carry knives and box cutters onto planes-he even got past security with a device on his torso called a Beerbelly, a bladder that holds up to 80 ounces of liquid you can drink from through a tube. Goldberg didn't fill the thing up, but he did exceed the three-ounce limit by just 21 ounces. He believes that our current airport procedures may succeed in catching dumb terrorists. But the time, energy and money would be better spent on gathering intelligence if we want to catch the smart ones. And keep my dad clean-shaven. Note: This article was originally printed with the title, "Not a Close Shave". From navayana at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 15:16:44 2009 From: navayana at gmail.com (navayana) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 15:16:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Lahori Ram: A Distant Source Of Light Message-ID: http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?sid=1&fodname=20090209&fname=Tribute+(F) Outlook, Feb 09, 2009 A Distant Source Of Light An Indian-American Dalit who gave voice to the oppressed in the diaspora RAJA SEKHAR VUNDRU on LAHORI RAM Twenty-five years ago, in September 1983, prime minister Indira Gandhi, while on a state visit to the US, had to face a vociferous group of Dalit immigrants in front of the White House protesting against atrocities on their kin back home. The protesters hailed from all corners of America, and leading a sizeable contingent from California was Lahori Ram, a businessman. Lahori Ram, 64, passed away nine days before he could see a coloured man do what none before him had. As one who had come half way around the world, fleeing discrimination, only to encounter prejudices of another kind, Ram would have truly understood the scale and import of Barack Obama's ascension. The travails and triumphs of the Dalit diaspora is hardly the script that resonates from Pravasi Bharatiya Sammelans, but Ram was an emblem of the sweat and smarts that we otherwise seek and salute. In 1972, he landed in America with only $380 (approximately Rs 16,000) in his pocket, yet 37 years later, he wore the informal mantle of the other world's richest Dalit lightly. The great Indian diaspora, all 20 million, carries a special legacy that is unique only to India—caste. Early immigrants fervently retained their caste and religious identities even in their new land. Amid the hostile environs, it was sheer hard work that enabled Ram to overcome the 'double discrimination'. His early life in Punjab was strewn with insults. Caste segregation was widely prevalent and he faced discrimination in his village, school and college. Caste even infiltrated the gurudwara langar. Untouchables were prohibited from entering the kitchen and were not even allowed to serve. In common dining areas, they were huddled separately. Young Ram did not allow this to deter him. As a 28-year-old graduate in America, he worked as a farm hand in the summer, saving his 75 cents-an-hour earnings to support his Masters degree in California. Between 1976 and 1994, he worked at various levels at the US Postal Service branch at the San Francisco International airport, toiling an average of 55-60 hours a week. But Ram did not lose sight of the opportunities. He bought his first home in 1979 and sold it in 1983 to purchase the first of the several apartment buildings he owned. By 2003, Lahori Ram's empire covered more than a hundred apartments in San Francisco. He also rose as a towering political leader, yet was not swayed by his glories. Ram emerged as a leading Dalit activist. To counter discrimination from among the diaspora in the US, he established the Guru Ravidass Sabha Temple in Pittsburgh, California, in 1981. These sabhas became platforms for Dalit assertion over the Sikh dominance in the Punjab diaspora. The traditional Sikhs refused to recognise the Bhakti saint as a guru in Sikh parlance, even though the Guru Granth Sahib consists of hymns of Sant Ravidass. In 2006, Ram co-chaired the Dalit Centennial at Vancouver which celebrated the centenary of Dalit arrival in Canada. But he was a true 'Indian' leader, exhorting members of the community to involve themselves in mainstream American life through his talks on Hindu platforms, gurudwaras and the Ravidass Sabhas. He rallied Indians to bring in political recognition to the Indo-American community in California. Ram was a Democrat, he supported their electoral campaigns and rubbed shoulders with the likes of Bill Clinton. His business acumen and leadership were acknowledged the world over. He was appointed to various trade bodies and was the first Indian-American to be made member of the all-powerful California State Commission for Economic Development in 2003. By then, he was already the president of the Indian National Congress of America and hosted many visiting Indian leaders.He also organised the Indian community in support of Democrats in the 2008 presidential campaign. Ram breathed his last on January 11, while on a Justice for NRIs Campaign in Vancouver. The *San Francisco Chronicle* described it as the "sudden and unexpected passing of a senior leader of the Indian community". Lahori Ram told the *San Francisco Examiner* in 2003: "We became millionaires not by being lazy. All that we have is earned by hard work showing the path of prosperity and success to millions of diaspora." The struggles that Dalits endure within the Indian diaspora is a tale seldom acknowledged. Lahori Ram, the blazing light of the Dalit movement, will continue to brighten the weary path of multitudes who toil amid adversity. *(The author is an IAS officer.)* -- Navayana Publishing M-100 (First Floor) Registered address: Navayana Publishing 54, I Floor Savarirayalu Stree Pondicherry 605001 Ph: 91-413-2223337 Mobile: 91-94430-33305 www.navayana.org Join Navayana Book Club and avail free books and special discounts! http://www.navayana.org/display.php?id=5 From javedmasoo at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 17:43:25 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (M Javed) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 17:43:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Pink Chaddi Campaign (Aditya Raj Kaul) In-Reply-To: <00ed01c98a8d$579c9070$0201a8c0@limo> References: <79e82f610902082055m524498d3ka1622695b238007e@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c98a77$31da2110$0201a8c0@limo> <79e82f610902082148j1a4cb34t782f5f9e29e642b@mail.gmail.com> <002701c98a7f$f69724f0$0201a8c0@limo> <79e82f610902082310i35fd47f2m44bd1afb3898e22a@mail.gmail.com> <00ed01c98a8d$579c9070$0201a8c0@limo> Message-ID: Dear Bipin I won't comment on other thing else in your post. But when you said that Modi in his speeches never comments against Muslims, I think you haven't heard all his speeches. Even if we forget about the "Newton's Third Law" which he invoked about the post-Godhra carnage in a speech, you can't ignore the speech in which he said "so what if so many Muslims have been killed - they can balance their population soon with panch-ke-pachchees formula" (I hope you know what that means). The fact remains that he allowed the mass murder of Muslims to happen in Gujarat in 2002. According to some police experts, any communal riot can be controlled within a maximum of 48 hours. If it extends beyond, it shows that the police is not interested in controlling it. We all know that the riots carried on in Gujarat for about 3 month without stop. Who is responsible for that. Javed On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:36 PM, bipin wrote: > Dear Rohan, > > You listen any public speech of Modi, he never comments against Muslim, but came heavily towards terrorist and their local support. Nothing wrong in it. The pseudo-secularist behavior has spreaded terrorism infact. Whenever he talk, talk for whole Gujarat people and this includes all the community. I am giving you macro analysis since independence and if you know India well you will understand this, which is as under. > > In the 60 years of Independence, the things improving at very slow rate. Today poverty is 25 % below poverty line which was about 75 % at the time independence. It took 50/55 years for reduction of 50% poverty and major reduction took place after 1991 only when reform started. > > > > Govt. job is to create opportunity by way of developing infrastructure in the field of Power, Road, Port, Airport which helps in the overall development. This key development was ignored since independence for about 50 years. During Narsimharao rule he took bold step by bringing Dr. Manmohansingh as Finance Minister, a non-politician and started free economy which was necessary to develop competitiveness in the Indian industries. At that time (1992-93) my friends/business ally telling that by cut in import duty Indian industries will die. But, I told them that nothing will happen and with this step Indian industries will grow very well and within 10 years Indian industries were capable to buy foreign industries. Rajiv Gandhi has also done good job in the communication field and brought computer age. > > > > At this stage also, infrastructure development was not upto the mark, which was started in big scale by Atalji in the field of Road, Power, Airports. Many were arguing why wasting in road to run luxury cars. I replied that 85% roads are used by trucks for transportation and with the improved quality of road transportation becomes chip and ultimately benefited to people only. This infrastructure of Road development running in the fast pace were slowed down drastically when UPA came to power because of orthodoc congressy, communists and Laluji. This infrastructural development should have been started after 5/10 years of independence and in that case India would have been super power by now. > > > > But sorry to say that Congress was after vote bank politics only (Particularly from the Indiara Gandhi rule. Corruption has also started heavily during her rule) and there policies were decided keeping in the mind of minority vote bank. So, to counter this minority vote bank BJP started vowing major vote bank of Hindu and vicious circle started. Of course they apply tit for tat policy. (Loha, lohe ko kate) > > > > Nuclear agreement with US was initiated by NDA govt. only and I doubt even congress would have thought in this line to do such agreement. However, it was initiated once one has to go on that direction and if Manmohansingh (non-politician, non-congress originally) was not there as PM, it would have not been done. BJP was opposing for some clause of it included on the pressure of US. This agreement was necessary because our nuclear plant producing power was not working without fuel like uranium and to run this plant we require the fuel else they would have been scrapped. > > > > So, since 5 years Mr. Modi has concentrated fully in the govt. efficiency, minimize corruption in the govt. dept. and development of infrastructure. No govt. can go to home by home and ask whether you have roti to eat or not. Govt. job is to provide infrastructure in efficient manner which is necessary for overall development. > > > > In India we talk about the lack of cleanliness of roads and public places. I do not blame any govt. for this, the un-disciplined public is responsible for it. To bring discipline, I think we should make compulsory NCC subject in the college. It was there earlier, but Indira has removed it. Today, if anyone talks to bring NCC back, National anthem/prayer like vandemataram, Surya-namaskar for exercise purpose (its best exercise) or any such type, but the so called pseudo-secularist comes in the media to oppose it with the argument that you are forcing Hinduism. They are not real secular, but worry for their vote bank. These are all steps bring discipline and nationality (not Hinduism). > > > > I remember when Atalji became PM, I wrote one letter to PMO with suggestions like: The reservation policy benefit can be given to those family having family planning (2 children) or at the most 3 children. I got just one line answer: Thanks. Good suggestion, we will think over it. I gave this suggestions to one my friend in the congress also, but he told that no one like to lose back-ward class votes by applying this, though its good suggestion. Vote bank politics is biggest hindrance in India to grow healthily. > > > My dear friend, after reading above let me tell you that Gujarat was shining earlier also compared to other states. But, Modi was elected after riot election, was re-elected in 2007 election and at that time there was no riot issue at all and he was solely elected on the development issue. What Modi did actually is Minimize corruption, increased efficiency in govt., which is very important and concentrating on undeveloped various ports, he also put up Special Investment Region (SIR) in un-developed area for overall development. for all this effort, result can be seen by 2011/12 only. Let me tell you that certainly Gujarat GDP by 2011/12 will be very much higher than the current 10/11% > > > > The people like Tata, Anil, Mittal running a huge business umpire globally are not fool by praising him. Of course they are selfish for their motto, but they give huge employment directly and much larger scale indirectly by ancillary industries. > > > > Again let me tell you that 2002 riots are self reaction of the 59 people burned in the train coach where most of the people where on the road on mass base and police has its limitation to act strictly in that case. If coach burning incident would have not occurred, riot was also not there. In the past, Gujarat riots where there in much larger scale than 2002 and lasted for about 1 months and that was totally state sponsored by Madhavsinh solanki, Chiman Patel and during that Hindu suffer a lot. You have mentioned that Muslims have been pushed to ghettos in the old city, but why this has happened that they themselves has to reterospect. No body forced to went there, they did it by themselves. Shah commission was appointed by Suggestion of Supreme Court panel and bannerjee commission was proved illegal. Everyone knows that it was Lalu gimmick before Bihar election. However, he lost there and people becomes smart enough to understand the things unlike past. > > > > Your data shows, that from 2002 after fall for couple of years, in it is in the increasing trend and I am sure it will increase further heavily in the years to come and you will notice that. Modi took charge in 2001 end only. If you have read today's Times of India 8/2/09 where in employment since last 5 years, Gujarat is topper and increased employment heavily. > > > > I have never said what happened violence is good. Within 4/5 days most of the violence were under control, may be it has spreadded in the new parts and got controlled thereafter. Whatever violence wherever happened is always bad. Since ancient times India and Indians are peace lovers and so they ruled under Muslims and British for long time. But, when the things went beyond control due to whatever reason (Past history as mentioned above or continuous local support for terrorist activity) it happens. > > > > Babri Masjid demolishen was also not good. But, there is historical place of Hindu Lord Rama birth place deep routed in the mind of whole of India and the place of mosque where nothing was happening since years and remain idle, with broad mind, Muslim community should understand and would have given the place for building temple. This very long issue and repeated requests was denied by Babri committee. One time came Hindu got anxious and things happened. > > > > > If Muslim and other minority staying in India stays here as Indian and stop their mental physical support to the terrorist and you will see the difference. > > > > thanks > > Bipin > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rohan DSouza > To: bipin > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 12:40 PM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The Pink Chaddi Campaign (Aditya Raj Kaul) > > > Dear Bipin, > > When it comes to Narendra Modi, his acts and words speak for themselves and most of these acts and words point out to his very clear communal and fascist agenda. I have a friend who attended a Modi rally a few years ago where he was at his vitriolic and vicious best where Muslims were concerned. The friend (who incidentally is Hindu) recollected this with disgust! > > As far as the Godhra incident and the riots after it are concerned its a well documented fact thanks to the Tehelka sting and other such exposes that the administration openly supported the rioting and helped rioters target Muslim areas! Now what happened at the Godhra railway station itself is far from clear with contradicting reports coming from different govt committees. > > Now the post 2002 Gujarat, especially Ahmedabad, where an aunt and cousins of mine stay has become so polarised. They (the relatives) say that the Muslims have been pushed to ghettos in the old city. All of this hardly points to just and humane governance. > > As far as the development that Modi has supposed to have done, there are many articles which bust this myth. I'm posting one below for your reference, which incidentally was posted in he readerslist e-group. This one actually points out the opposite of what you say, investment in Gujarat has actually come down post 2002! I'm quoting some relevant parts from it, the full article is pasted below my mail: > 'In September 1995, the state's share was 14.45% of all projects under implementation in the country. At 9.43%, its nearest rival, Maharashtra, was a poor second. Maharashtra overtook Gujarat, but in December 2001 its lead over Gujarat was less than a percentage point.Then something happened, and by September 2002, Gujarat's share fell to 8.78%; three years later, it was down to 7.67%, with Orissa ahead of Gujarat, and Karnataka close behind. Since then, Gujarat has recovered, but only slowly, and today commands 9.57% of investments in India. It is behind Orissa and Andhra Pradesh. Maharashtra is only half a per cent behind, and Haryana, West Bengal and Karnataka are trying to catch up.' > > His development work, including for eg, the Sabarmati redevlopment plan, which again a cousin who lives there talks about, is primarily aimed at the middle and upper class Hindus at the cost of slum dwellers! > > He and his development, just like Krishna in Karnataka and Chandrababu Naidu in AP, benefits the cities and middle, upper class groups as well as industries. The Narmada dam touted to bring water to the poor in Gujarat has only benefited the powerful and rich sugarcane farmers and cities in Gujarat again at the cost of displacement and destruction of adivasis and other poor groups in the catchment areas. > > So, I for one certainly do not buy into Modi's supposed development and transparent administration/governance myth! > > As far as comparing a Modi and a Nehru are concerned, the prime differentiator to me would be the ideology that drives them. While Modi spews hate towards Muslims and other minorities, I dont recall hearing of such utterances from Nehru! > > The Sikh riots that happened in 1984 are just as condemnable as the 2002 Gujarat riots and statements and actions of 'leader's' such as Rajiv Gandhi ('when a big tree falls...') are just as despicable as Modi and Advanis! Rajiv Gandhi also played a role in the communalisation of the country by peddling 'soft' Hindutva through the opening of the gates of the disputed site, thus paving the way for the violent and destructive Ramjanmaboomi movement! I for one dont consider Rajiv Gandhi dynamic, but a weak and incompetent politician, who made many blunders! And the less said of the dynastic politics of the congress, the better! > > The unfortunate part is that in 1984 the electronic media (doordarshan) was completely state controlled and therefore could not bring the dastardly acts of those in the thick of action to light, very unlike in 2002! That however should not stop for a demand for those responsible (Jagdish Tytler etc) to be brought to book. Tehelka, again has done some exemplary coverage to expose Tytler and his recent manipulations of key witnesses etc! > > Regards, > Rohan > > The entire article: > http://www.livemint.com/2009/01/21220302/The-real-Modi-story.html > > > The canonization has begun. Ratan Tata says investors not yet in Gujarat are "stupid". Anil Ambani and Sunil Bharti Mittal hope to see Gujarat's chief minister, Narendra Modi, as India's prime minister. Kumar Mangalam Birla, Mukesh Ambani and Shashi Ruia have joined the chorus of approval. > > > Businesses like Modi because he has rejuvenated Gujarat. Under his watch, the state has upgraded ports and improved the quality of roads dramatically. He is credited with reducing corruption, eliminating red tape, providing uninterrupted electricity to all villages and harnessing rainwater. The number of girls attending and staying in schools has risen. Gujarat's bureaucracy swears by Modi. At last week's Vibrant Gujarat Global Investors' Summit, investors promised projects worth Rs12 trillion, or $247 billion. That dwarfs commitments for the entire country. > Gujarat is trying to regain its lead among states in private investment,which it lost post-Godhra > You might think that Gujarat is outracing and outpacing India, and Modi is singularly responsible for the boom. In fact, according to the Centre for Monitoring Indian Economy, Gujarat commanded a huge lead over other states: In September 1995, the state's share was 14.45% of all projects under implementation in the country. At 9.43%, its nearest rival, Maharashtra, was a poor second. Maharashtra overtook Gujarat, but in December 2001 its lead over Gujarat was less than a percentage point. > > > Then something happened, and by September 2002, Gujarat's share fell to 8.78%; three years later, it was down to 7.67%, with Orissa ahead of Gujarat, and Karnataka close behind. Since then, Gujarat has recovered, but only slowly, and today commands 9.57% of investments in India. It is behind Orissa and Andhra Pradesh. Maharashtra is only half a per cent behind, and Haryana, West Bengal and Karnataka are trying to catch up. > > > That "something" is the post-Godhra violence. From 2002, smart money began investing elsewhere. It has since started returning, but despite Modi's administrative skills, his state no longer leads the inward investment tables. > > > This is not to undermine Gujarat, but last week's planned investments are only memorandums of understanding (MoUs). A study of foreign direct investments in China in the 1990s showed that China's claimed foreign direct investment was typically six-eight times larger than actual inflow. The statistics included the cost of land the government was giving; most projects included loans from financial institutions, as well as other in-kind contributions. The figure of $247 billion should be seen in this perspective. > > > The MoUs raise more questions. For example, a 10,000MW coal-fired thermal power plant costs Rs40,000 crore, but one such investment is claimed to be worth Rs87,000 crore. Granted, the project includes a 5,000-acre special economic zone (SEZ), but an SEZ does not have to cost more than a major power plant. Infrastructure analysts say the figures for megawatt generation and power project costs don't add up. Expansion plans for some ports and proposed townships appear significantly more than the cost of similar projects elsewhere in India. We must remember, then, that what were signed last week were MoUs, not cheques. > > > The sobering reality is that Gujarat had the lead in 1995 which it lost after the post-Godhra violence, and is trying to regain its erstwhile pre-eminent position. The fundamentals to attract investments—industrial peace, great infrastructure and ancillary industries—preceded Modi's tenure. The Narmada dams were already under construction, workers polished diamonds in Palanpur, petrochemicals and cars were made in Vadodara, milk flowed from Anand, yarn churned out in Hazira and a refinery was being built in Jamnagar, much before Modi took office. Gujarat's rural prosperity is substantially, though not entirely, due to significant remittances from overseas Gujaratis. > > > It is odd, therefore, to credit Modi with Gujarat's vibrancy. And it is hard not to blame his government for the colossal failure to protect civilians during the anti-Muslim violence in 2002. That alone disqualifies him from holding office. But Gujaratis have continued to elect him. Fair enough; but the rest of India does not have to do so. > > > The story of the drop in Gujarat's share of projects under implementation is not widely known; Modi's governance hasn't helped the state overcome the damage that massacre caused. Money went elsewhere and it is returning only now. Modi's supporters say he has shown Muslims their place in India. He can probably make trains run on time as well. But at what cost to the nation? > Anil Ambani quoted his father, the late Dhirubhai, who called Modi "lambi race ka ghoda", or the horse for the long race. The eyes of a champion thoroughbred are covered to prevent distractions and the jockey whips him, making him run faster. Such a horse only thinks of the destination, not how to get there. > > > Another Gujarati—Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi—saw it differently: "Our progress towards the goal will be in exact proportion to the purity of our means… As the means, so the end." > He did not rush headlong; he walked alone. > > > Salil Tripathi is a writer based in London. Your comments are welcome at views at livemint.com > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 12:00 PM, bipin wrote: > > Dear Rohan, > > You have full right to react what happen in Karnataka. What I want to say, it should not be biased. What happen in Karntaka is wrong and it is also true by repeating (just to increase their viewer-ship) for couple of days in media, both side public gets anxious and leads to violence. In many occasion Media's behavior is irresponsible. In case of Gujarat, media played key role for spreading violence in Gujarat. Please read carefully following facts. I have send this article to many and agreed with me even Modi critics also. > > First of all, for 2002 riots Mr. Narendra Modi is not solely responsible. It was reaction of 59 people burned in train coach. In this riot when even upper middle class were on the road for reaction mode the police have its limitations to act strictly. Just like Sikh riot which was in very large scale than Gujarat riot, but at that time no body blamed the than congress government for their in-activeness. However, Gujarat is always soft target for so called secularists, NGO and many English media. > > > > However, if we believe that it's a great mistake of Mr. Narendra Modi, but all the great leaders made blunders in the past. Mr. Nehru, no doubt he was great leader, but his mistakes to take Kashmir issue in the UN in spite of warning from fellow members. For this mistake, we are still suffering. Mrs. Indira Gandhi was also great leader, but deviate court verdicts and imposes of emergency was non-regrettable mistakes. The dynamic PM like Rajiv Gandhi has reverted Shah Bano court verdict just to appease minority and there after open Ram-Mandir lock to appease Hindu. Actually this is the root of Hindu-Muslim riot occur thereafter. > > > > Mr. Narendra Modi Achievements in this 7 years rule are: (1) Dynamic and quick administration to run efficient Government. (2) Minimize corruption. (3) He has stopped chairmanship post for politician and that way govt PSU's become profitable. Such step should follow by all the states and union govt. (4) Huge MOU is not his achievement, his achievement is to provide better and efficient infrastructure and business friendly environment and investment bound to come as ultimate result. (5) When he took the charge, GEB loss was about 2000 crores, but now it's running in profit. This is one example. Many PSU's started profit during his rule. (6) Almost more than 95% villages have 24 hours power. This is not a small achievement. (7) Even central govt. has praised the Gujarat govt. in many occasion and they have followed some similar foot steps. > > > > This is few achievement of Mr. Modi I have mentioned, but there are many things and if I mention all these, this article become limit less. What is good must be appreciated and with his capabilities if country can progress, one should not hesitate to take Mr. Narendra Modi services at the center stage. Now, time has come to govern the country by efficient, dynamic and knowledgeable persons irrespective of he/she being a politician or non-politician. > > > > So, Ranjan Kamath movement to call Cellular off day of Tata, Reliance, Airtel is irrelevant in this global competitive and hi-tech era. It is foolishness to support such movement. > > > > By the way, I am not belonging to any political party. > > > > thanks > > Bipin > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rohan DSouza > To: bipin > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 11:18 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The Pink Chaddi Campaign (Aditya Raj Kaul) > > > Dear Bipin, > > The repsonse was a comment on the rollout of events unfolding in Karnataka, which clearly point out to a well thought out fascist strategy. And yes I have no doubt in my mind (and am sure neither do Advani, Modi etc) that the BJP and the sangh parivar admire fascism and its most prominent pratcitioner, Hitler. Both these gentlemen as well as the founding fathers of the Snagh parivar (Gowalkar, Sarvakar etc) have gone on record praising Hitler and his approach. > > The UPA government and its proposal to control the media also needs to be responded to and reacted to in its context. Right now, my comments are in the context of what is happening in Karnataka. > > Regards, > Rohan > > > On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:58 AM, bipin wrote: > > Dear Rohan, > > Your quick reaction on media blockage by Karnataka minister from the media report only, without going deeply in the matter. I hope you must have acted more rigorously when report that UPA govt. was on the way to introduce bill in the parliament to put control over media. I am sure not you must have not reacted on it this much sharply. > > Without understanding deeply, it is fashion to blame BJP as fascist party. > > By the way, I am not belonging to any plitical party. > > thanks > Bipin > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rohan DSouza" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 10:25 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The Pink Chaddi Campaign (Aditya Raj Kaul) > > > > The media especially the electronic media of the 24/7 variety have hardly > come out in shining colours recently, given their sensationalist coverage > of > variety of events starting from the Mumbai terror strikes to the recent > Mangalore pub attack. Restrained and balanced reporting doesn't feature in > their scheme of things as this wouldn't go with eye ball grabbing, shrill > and voyueristic coverage. However, it is due to this media picking up the > Magalore pub story that the agenda of the BJP government in Karnataka is > at > least coming out to some extent in the open through the responses and > reactions of the state government. > > Take for example, the announcement made by the Home Minister of Karnatka, > Acharya, of 'appointing an Ombudsman to monitor and control media > reportage' > *. When such proposals come from political parties that subscribe to and > fawn over fascist parties of the past and their modus operandi , then this > announcement needs to be taken and responded to very seriously. > Terrorising > women, minorities, dalits and other vulnerable groups and the media > control > (blackout?) proposed, the Gujarat model so dear to CM Yeddyurappa's heart, > is well on its way to being rolled out. > > Rohan > > http://www.hindu.com/2009/02/09/stories/2009020957130100.htm > > * *State may appoint media ombudsman * Staff Correspondent * Media > overreacting: Acharya; it will be death of democracy, says CPI(M) * > > * V.S. Acharya * > > MANGALORE: The State Government will consider appointing an Ombudsman to > monitor and control media reportage, Home Minister V.S. Acharya said in > Mangalore on Sunday. He blamed the media for "overreacting" to and > "unnecessarily hyping up" the recent spate of vigilante attacks by alleged > Hindutva groups. > > Addressing a gathering of top government officials, civil rights activists > and representatives of Opposition parties from the districts of Dakshina > Kannada and Udupi, at a 'peace committee meeting' at the Deputy > Commissioner's office, Mr. Acharya said the freedom of the press could not > be limitless. "The role of the Ombudsman will be to screen media reports > that lack objectivity and pronounce 'judgments' on issues. The Ombudsman > will also entertain complaints from the general public about media reports > they find objectionable," he said. > > His proposal met with sharp criticism at the meeting. District secretary > of > the Communist Party of India (Marxist) B. Madhava said it was an attempt > to > prevent the media from reporting freely and fairly on the 'misrule' of the > Bharatiya Janata Party Government. > > "If the State Government goes ahead with this fascist move, it will be the > death of democracy," he said. > > The spokesperson for the Mangalore Catholic Diocese, Onil D'Souza, told > Mr. > Acharya that he should be concentrating on the issue and not blaming the > media. "It is the prerogative of the media to play up or underplay an > event. > It does not undo the fact that there has been a systemic failure to curb > the > menace of vigilantism," he said. > > Alleging that the State Government was going soft on the "Hindutva brand > of > terrorism," Ismail N., principal of the Badria College, said all acts of > violence aimed at instilling fear in the minds of the people should be > considered as terrorism. He included moral vigilantism in that list and > demanded strict action against those responsible for the recent attacks. > > Vice-president of the Kanara Chambers of Commerce and Industry G.G. > Mohandas > Prabhu said the recent vigilante attacks had adversely affected > investments > in the region. > > District in-charge Minister J. Krishna Palemar said whatever happened in > the > district or region should remain within it. > > "The city has been projected in poor light across the world because of the > mistakes of the media," he said. Mr. Acharya said the State Government > would > ensure peaceful observance of Valentine's Day. "The police will be given a > free hand to deal with any untoward incident that may arise on February > 14," > he said. Superintendent of Police (Dakshina Kannada) N. Satish Kumar said > 120 more police constables would be pressed into service on Valentine's > Day > to thwart any attempt to disrupt festivities. > > Mr. Acharya also said the long-standing demand for a police > commissionerate > in the city would be met by March 31 this year. Once that happens, the > present Superintendent of Police will be made in-charge of the rest of the > district and a new officer will be brought in to take on the > responsibility > of Police Commissioner. > > In response, a participant pointed out that there was not a single senior > police officer from the minority communities. "This is a planned > conspiracy > on the part of the BJP to 'saffronise' the police force," he alleged. > > > > Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 20:44:05 +0530 > From: Aditya Raj Kaul > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The Pink Chaddi Campaign > To: sarai list > Message-ID: > <6353c690902080714y370b0e6fgb7624ff12e79602d at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Why not target/protest the media as well; who remained mute spectators to > the horrific drama that unfolded on that fateful day ? > > Just a suggestion, send them Pink Chaddis with "BREAKING NEWS" written on > them. > > On 2/8/09, nisha susan wrote: > > > > Dear All, > > > > You may have heard of the Pink Chaddi Campaign that kicked off three > > days > > ago to oppose the Sri Ram Sene. The campaign is growing exponentially > (1,300 > > at this point in the life of our Consortium of Pub-going, Loose and > Forward > > Women) and that is not surprising. Most women in this country have > > enough > > curbs on their lives without a whole new franchise cashing in with > > their > > bully-boy tactics. Of course, a lot of men have joined the group as > > well. > > > > Here is we want to do with the Pink Chaddi Campaign. Join in. Be > > imaginative, have fun and fight back! > > > > Step 1: It does not matter that many of us have not thought about > > Valentine's Day since we were 13. If ever. This year let us send the > > Sri > Ram > > Sene some love. Let us send them some PINK CHADDIS. > > > > Look in your closet or buy them cheap. Dirt-cheap. Make sure they are > PINK. > > Send them off to the Sene. > > > > The address to send the package is: > > Pramod Muthalik, > > Chief, Sri Rama Sene, > > #11, Behind New Bus Stand, Gokhul Road, Near Lakshmi Park, > > HUBLI - Karnataka > > > > If you don't want to mail it yourself, you can drop it off at the > > Chaddi > > Collection Points. We will be collecting across the country through > > this > > week and sending the packages on February 12. More information about > Chaddi > > Collectors in your city soon on our blog: > > http://thepinkchaddicampaign.blogspot.com/ > > > > Step 2: Send the Pink Chaddi Campaign a photograph of the package. > > > > Tell us how many chaddis you are sending out and inspire other women in > > other cities. You can either mail the information here or you can mail > > it > at > > our facebook address. > > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=49641698651&ref=mf > > > > > > Step 3: On Valentine's Day we do a Pub Bharo action. Go to a pub > > wherever > > you are. From Kabul to Chennai to Guwahati to Singapore to LA women > > have > > signed up. It does not matter if you are actually not a pub-goer or not > even > > much of a drinker. Let us raise a toast (it can be juice) to Indian > women. > > Take a photo or video. We will put it together (more on how later) and > send > > this as well to the Sri Ram Sene. > > > > Step 4: After Valentine's Day we should get some of our elected > > leaders > to > > agree that beating up women is ummm... AGAINST INDIAN CULTURE. > > > > For right now, ask not what Dr VS Acharya, Home Minister of Karnataka > > can > > do for you. Ask what you can do for him. Here is his blog. > > http://drvsacharya.blogspot.com. Send him some love. > > > > > > Nisha Susan > > For the Pink Chaddi Campaign > > http://thepinkchaddicampaign.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > -- > > -- > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 18:27:34 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 18:27:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Bhasha_Dam=3A_A_Tomb_Stone_of_Gilg?= =?windows-1252?q?it-Baltistan=92s_Aspirations?= Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902090457k6e06c9a7sab0ebd348c9cf20c@mail.gmail.com> http://pakistanpal.wordpress.com/2009/02/09/bhasha-dam-a-tomb-stone-of-gilgit-baltistan%E2%80%99s-aspirations/ This year Pakistan is facing an acute water shortage and the shortage during the current Rabi crop is estimated to be around 35 to 40 per cent, which will adversely affect the wheat output, critical for the country's food security. Pakistan also faces an acute power shortage, which has exacerbated by the reduced outflow from Tarbela Dam. To tide over the problems, Pakistan is building Bhasha Dam on River Indus, which is the largest dam being built in Pakistan since Tarbela was completed in 1976. Continuous silting has reduced the storage capacity of Tarbela and Mangla dams considerably. It had been estimated that to tide over the problems of Pakistan's water shortages it needed to build a dam of Tarbela's size (world's largest rock filled dam) every seven years. However, political discord and lack of clear vision among Pakistan's ruling elite have prevented even a single dam from being constructed during the last three decades. For a country where agriculture contributes one fifth of the national GDP and employs over 40 percent of the labour force, it could be a costly oversight. The experts opine that the ideal site for building a mega dam in Pakistan is Kalabagh, which could provide millions of acres feet of water for irrigation in addition to cheap electricity. Though Punjab, the most populous province of Pakistan has always been supportive of Kalabagh, the other three provinces have been resolutely opposed to it. Although Sindh is opposed to any dam on Indus, NWFP feels that a dam at Kalabagh will inundate large agricultural tracts as well as the thriving city of Nowshera. Inspite of being small, NWFP has always wielded considerable influence on the security establishment of Pakistan and it was therefore impossible for the then military rulers to overlook its objections. Despite General Musharraf's fervent attempts, a consensus eluded Kalabagh. In fact Asfandar Wali Khan, the ANP leader, went to the extent of asking him to chose between Kalabagh Dam and the federation. As a result Musharraf in the year 2006, settled for less 'contentious' Bhasha Dam to be built as the first mega dam as part of his 'Water Vision 2025', which envisages building at least five dams across Pakistan and Pakistan occupied Kashmir (POK). The site of the proposed Bhasha dam is located on the Indus River 314 kilometres upstream of Tarbela dam and about 120 km downstream of its confluence with the Gilgit River. Its proponents claim that it could enhance the lifespan of Tarbela dam; by reducing silting. It is also expected to have a longer life span than Kalabagh as the sediment load at Bhasha is considerably lower than at Kalabagh. The construction is expected to start by September 2009 and is estimated to cost a whopping $ 12 billion. The dam is slated to have 12 power generating units of 375 MW capacity and the average annual hydel power to be generated by the dam is estimated to be 19,000 GWH. The dam with a height of 272 m,will be the highest roller-compacted concrete dam in the world. There will be 14 gates of 11.0 x 16.5 m size. The gross capacity of the dam will be 7.3 Million Acre Feet (MAF) and the live (usable) capacity of the dam will be 6.4 MAF. A number of roads need to be built to provide access to the project site and the funding requirement has been forecast as Rs 31 billion, however, only Rs 2.6 billion have been provided in the budget for the current financial year. For the project a meagre sum of Rs 200 million has been assigned in the budget and the bulk of funding was expected from the World Bank and the ADB. However, the World Bank has refused to fund the dam or any other project in POK. Moreover, with the global economic slowdown, funding from any international multilateral organisation may become a serious problem and may further slowdown the already slow progress of the project. However, the dam will not only take much longerJanuary 2009 5 to build, it will inundate large tracts of land in Gilgit-Batistan. Besides it would also inundate 120 Kilometre stretch of Karakoram Highway, which links China with Pakistan and provides the main access to this otherwise inaccessible region. The dam is therefore strongly opposed by the local population but the hapless population of Gilgit-Baltistan, without any representation in Islamabad's policy making institutions, has no avenue of getting its voice heard in Islamabad. The local population already has serious grievances against the Pakistan government for the continuing 'oppression,' for the last six decades. The government has not only not allowed the people any say in the decision making process, it has even prevented them from forming unions. The dam has grave socio-economic and environmental implications. It will displace the residents from at least 32 villages in Diamer District as soon the construction work starts. The large tracts of fertile land, which is extremely scarce in Gilgit- Baltistan will get inundated, making the region even more dependent on Pakistan for its food requirements. The construction will bring in large number of workers from outside the region. As it is the State Subjects Rule, which prevented outsiders from acquiring land in the region has been done away with, consequently, the migrants have been settling in the region and altering the unique ethnic composition of the region. The dam may further disturb the already delicate ethnic and sectarian balance in the region. The construction of a huge reservoir in a tectonic faultline may result in serious ecological complications. The recurrence of a massive earthquake like the one experienced in the Mirpur-Muzaffarabad region of POK in 2005, could lead to severe calamity as a breach in a huge reservoir like Bhasha Dam could inundate most of the cities located downstream on the banks of Indus. The fundamental problem with the dam is that while almost the entire inundation will take place in Gilgit-Baltistan, the power plant will be located in Bhasha in NWFP and hence it will receive the royalty from the power generation.Although the entire water in the reservoir will be available for irrigation down stream in Pakistan, not even an acre of land will be irrigated in so called 'Northern Areas' (Gilgit-Baltistan). As a sop to the local population the name of the dam was changed from Bhasha to Diamer-Bhasha to give them a false sense of ownership and it was announced that the royalty will be shared with the 'Northern Areas'. However, NWFP government has refused to share the royalty and Pakistani constitution supports their contention. The provision in the constitution states that the royalty would go to the state where the powerhouse for generating electricity is located. However, this is not a valid justification for the NWFP to reap the benefits of royalty from the dam, as the constitution of Pakistan does not apply to Gilgit-Baltistan, where the dam is actually located. There is another dimension of this dam that needs to be highlighted and it is related to the preservation of archaeological assets. In April 2008, there were reports that approximately one thousand rare stone carvings, sculptures and statues of Buddha were discovered at the construction site of the dam. Pakistan as a signatory to international conventions is obliged to protect these heritage sites. However,obliterating the region's pre-Islamic past may suit Pakistan's political and ideological objectives, but India's reticence is baffling. The dam is being built in a territory that legally belongs to India and the population of the region, who are 'de jure' citizens of India are being persecuted to facilitate its construction. The Government of India must raise its voice against persecution of its citizens. It will be difficult for Pakistan to obtain funding for the project, if India educates the international multilateral organisations about the illegality of the project and consequent violation of the basic human rights of the population of Gilgit-Baltistan. Its unique ethnonationalist character and pristine environment is being threatened to provide irrigation and electricity to Pakistan, without any concurrence of the local population or India. From lawrence at altlawforum.org Tue Feb 10 17:37:37 2009 From: lawrence at altlawforum.org (Lawrence Liang) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 17:37:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Defend the Right to Love Message-ID: *DEFEND THE RIGHT TO LOVE* Love crosses all barriers! Love knows no caste nor class! Love has no religion nor region! Love sees no gender nor sexuality! The recent incidents of fundamentalist violence in many parts of Karnataka has led to the curbing of freedoms of common people. One of the point of attacks has been to curb the right of people to have friends and lovers across communities. A fixed and divisive idea of Indian culture is being thrust upon us. While we resist this violence, we also need to clearly state that we see love as a basic human right which must be defended from attack by fundamentalists of all hues. The idea of love which cuts across all boundaries, is part of every culture around the globe. The stories of Heer - Ranjha, Nala - Damayanti, Dushyanta - Shakuntale, Krishna, Rukmini, Romeo-Juliet and even John and Abhishek in Dostana are some among the many! It is time for us to send a strong message to those who say that the 'right to love' is not part of our culture. They speak from a position of ignorance of a rich history of Love which is an integral part of our culture. Please Join us to celebrate this precious right. Lets stand in solidarity and strengthen the choices and lives of those who love.... unabashedly. Lets come together to celebrate love and send a message to those who propagate hate. All you need to do is wear something RED OR PINK and meet us at Mahatma Gandhi Statue on MG Road at 12 o'clock. We will walk through MG road and Brigade road. If you don't catch us at the Gandhi Statue look for us, we'll be painting the town red... and pink. Join us with friends, family and lovers! Time: 12:00 am to 2:00 PM Date: Valentine's Day, 14th February, 2009. For further details contact: 9448043941 Jagadeesh 9886182458 Ponni 9980010933 Arvind Please send across to people Jagadeesh From A.Khanna at sms.ed.ac.uk Tue Feb 10 18:39:53 2009 From: A.Khanna at sms.ed.ac.uk (A Khanna) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 13:09:53 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Defend the Right to Love In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090210130953.30ytusau8ks8owoc@www.sms.ed.ac.uk> what fun! just one thought, should it not be John and Abhishek and Priyanka in Dostana? polyamourously pink, akshay Quoting Lawrence Liang : > *DEFEND THE RIGHT TO LOVE* > > Love crosses all barriers! > > Love knows no caste nor class! > > Love has no religion nor region! > > Love sees no gender nor sexuality! > > > The recent incidents of fundamentalist violence in many parts of Karnataka > has led to the curbing of freedoms of common people. One of the point of > attacks has been to curb the right of people to have friends and lovers > across communities. A fixed and divisive idea of Indian culture is being > thrust upon us. While we resist this violence, we also need to clearly state > that we see love as a basic human right which must be defended from attack > by fundamentalists of all hues. > > The idea of love which cuts across all boundaries, is part of every culture > around the globe. The stories of Heer - Ranjha, Nala - Damayanti, Dushyanta > - Shakuntale, Krishna, Rukmini, Romeo-Juliet and even John and Abhishek in > Dostana are some among the many! > > > It is time for us to send a strong message to those who say that the 'right > to love' is not part of our culture. They speak from a position of ignorance > of a rich history of Love which is an integral part of our culture. > > Please Join us to celebrate this precious right. Lets stand in solidarity > and strengthen the choices and lives of those who love.... unabashedly. > > > Lets come together to celebrate love and send a message to those who > propagate hate. > > > All you need to do is wear something RED OR PINK and meet us at Mahatma > Gandhi Statue on MG Road at 12 o'clock. We will walk through MG road and > Brigade road. If you don't catch us at the Gandhi Statue look for us, we'll > be painting the town red... and pink. Join us with friends, family and > lovers! > > > Time: 12:00 am to 2:00 PM > > Date: Valentine's Day, 14th February, 2009. > > > For further details contact: > > 9448043941 Jagadeesh > > 9886182458 Ponni > > 9980010933 Arvind > > Please send across to people > Jagadeesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 18:42:09 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 18:42:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Rotten Apples" In-Reply-To: <6353c690902100511k58556777ma22d521fed38e783@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690902100504t62ff5078j800cf6f969adcf3d@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902100507x7f9393d6m1e97a90d5a8d7105@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902100508n47c983a5h116681165e23da19@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902100508i6cde7ea3m4f34b01f0f77a7ff@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902100509q62e9e612m94dd366b77af1a0b@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902100509o181f104bte30aac4e9d73112d@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902100510y13371336qdd2628305cf46ee5@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902100510y636c9cc7jcb064540d10e489f@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902100510m2376bf88h44d5a549436de57b@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902100511k58556777ma22d521fed38e783@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690902100512h2489f6a0wb004c748294ec556@mail.gmail.com> "Rotten Apples" *Tere Mandi,Mere Mandi-Rawalpindi,Rawalpindi!* **(your marketplace, my marketplace-Rawalpindi,Rawalpindi). Not many months ago this slogan was the flavour of the season in Kashmir. The road to Rawalpinidi seemed no less important than the road to Heaven and POK was supposedly the gateway to the heaven. There was a mad rush to get to the gates of the heaven. So mad was the rush that many lost their lives on way to the heaven. Whether they went to heaven thereafter or not is another question. Rawalpindi, "in the land of pure", was seen as the destination for the Kashmiri Muslim produce. From the sacred soil of Kashmir whatever is produced should be consumed by the sacred sons and daughters in the pure land. Thus went the adage. That the road to the land of pure via the heaven would be open for Kashmiri Muslims was a foregone conclusion. As always, only the faithful were to send their goods. For the infidels the doors to heaven were locked much before they were born into infidelity. That the land of Kashmir bore infidels was itself an insult to the land. The land was cleansed of them. *The faithful and the pure were ready to merge.**** *Thus the goods and goodness began assimilating, disseminating and trading. The faithful on both sides avowed their love for each other. 'Allah is benign and merciful!' said one as he bit into a juicy Kashmiri apple. The bonhomie was unbelievable but true. Trucks were moving at frantic pace to deliver the sacred goods to the land of pure. Who the hell wants money for this? This is my gift for my brothers and sisters said a trader from Shopian.He had already despatched 6 truckloads of apples, apricots and pears to *the land of pure via the gates of heaven.Gates of heaven…mind you. * *** *Many months later the infidel had this to read*, "No Money from PoK,so no apples:Kashmiris".* The newspaper report quoted the President of Fruit growers association of Sopore (the apple belt of north Kashmir) saying, " *"We were eagerly waiting for the beginning of cross LoC trade, even dispatched thousands of apple boxes to PoK in the start. But, so far growers have not received a single penny in lieu of the apples,.After three months, we don't know what happened to apples in PoK,". * *** *Many months later as separatists close offices ,bicker with each other, suffer ignominy and bite dust the apples may well be rotting like the separatists themselves. Please read more at - http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/2009/02/rotten-apples.html Comments on the article at the blog are welcome! Thanks -- Aditya Raj Kaul From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 10 21:09:08 2009 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 07:39:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] The Chaddi's Day Out Message-ID: <501420.67029.qm@web51404.mail.re2.yahoo.com> These are some hilarious comments received on the Livemint blog about the Pink Chaddi campaign: >From Sunny Narang February 9, 2009 4:50 PM Its the zaniest campaign to come out of facebook in India. Its got attitude with the pink heart on the shakha saluting knickerwala on its masthead and the great pink panty logo with the sun rays , just like the regal sun insignia of yore.Its got feminist and feminine twist with great humour and sense of delight .Sri Ram Sene office drowning in pink chaddis from all over India is something all law abiding Indains would love to see. A non violent act of Gandhian proportions.Guess its time for the Pink Chaddi movement,its about love and inners, how more culturally right can they be!! >From santanu February 9, 2009 8:10 PM Ok...go ahead one step since you want to show us how "advanced" you are. Open a brothel and let us f*** you for free. And I solemnly promise that I'd forever campaign against that Ram sene. Won't that show the whole world how forward we are in India? >From Som February 9, 2009 8:37 PM I'm not sure sending truckload of pink underwears to Muthalik's goons will do anything other than earning the group behind the move some cheap publicity. I'm equally sceptic if it would have the same calming effect on the Sri Rama Sene cadres which the Kalinga war had on Ashoka. The only language these goons understand is that of police baton and the only way out is to pressurise Yediyurappa into some sort of action. Apparently Yediyurappa believes Muthalik is in possession of a sleazy MMS and hence refuses to act. Sorry, the pink underwear idea stinks. >From Dominic February 9, 2009 10:18 PM Santanu, You just showed what you guys think of all the day and how you would be feeling cause no good looking gal would ever come along with you even to hospital. With the kind of attitude you have even Mumbai's prostitue will not agree to have a tea with you for cash advance. Such a looser ! >From Priya February 9, 2009 10:25 PM santanu, take your abuses and anger elsewhere. cheers. hic. >From Melvin Thomas February 10, 2009 12:28 AM Wow, I'm impressed, finally we are getting innovative. I really like the idea, even though it is stinky, and I guess that is the point, Ram Sena gets what they deserve, "some stink." This is a very creative way of non-violent protest, instead of beating them back. Finally, finally, finally we are protesting in sensible ways, which are also very peaceful and sarcastic. Whoever thought of this idea, I wholeheartedly appreciate them. I also understand this campaign is not going to "change" Ram Sena; this probably will not change anything for them, or in our country. But this will be an awesome statement. Actually that is all this is, isn't it? A statement! We are not trying to change Ram Sena, and similar propagandists like them in one day; but this is a statement. Well, Congrats, go ahead! >From Ram Mohan February 10, 2009 9:15 AM Its time that the civilian society and the responsible citizens of this country start responding to these unconstitutional acts of organized goondas. Let us not get carried away by the these criminals. Don't forget the fact that we also should be intelligent enough to understand the hidden agendas of these highly intelligent people with destructive mentality, they come in all different forms in misguiding general public to align mass support for their ill acts and to legalize their criminal doings. Civil society should not let such criminals to gain advantage by free advertisements. No person who love India wants to see the society getting divided on caste, creed, religion, demography, gender etc, we want a united india where citizens follow the constitution and not every other person imposing their selfishe wishes on others. In this context, the pink campaign effort is very innovative and will certainly strike these cowards at the right place. Good initiative and all the very best from those indians who favours progress to society and abide constitution of India! >From Abhisek February 10, 2009 9:33 AM Please donate some costly underwears so dat ram sena people can wear dose in der heads b4 sleeping >From Priya February 10, 2009 10:11 AM And those of you who think you know the scriptures can please read this brilliant piece on alcohol and the sutras by mrinal pande from today's mint http://www.livemint.com/articles/2009/02/09221126/Even-the-sutras-allowed-some-a.html >From V.B.N.Ram February 10, 2009 10:14 AM No matter how despicable, or unreasonable, those opposing our views be, we should, under all circumstances restrain ourselves from resorting to unethical means to settle scores. A sense of balance, is the need of the hour, not merely in India, but across the globe. While I condemn the bigotted thinking of the Ram Sena, I would appeal to all Indians, not to demean themselves, by behaving as bad as them -through acts such as dumping underwears at their door entrances. I would be happy to get a reaction from bloggers >From V February 10, 2009 10:31 AM now dis......is wat i call political action. dis shud hv happened long ago....its gr8 2 see dat d generation is waking up n showing these assholes wat exactly a democracy is. dis is actually gandhigiri.....in a.....um.... pink..... sort of way. best of luck. and.....PINK CHADDIS! (maybe u shud think of a slogan....) P.S. how many hv u collected? >From Emal February 10, 2009 10:49 AM Hi Guys...i don’t know if this is too late. but why cant we walk hand in hand some 100 / 200 people from all walks of life. What will 20 / 30 people will be able to do? Please try if we can take a silent walk with a board in our hands in Kannada and English against "Ill-treating Women’s" or trying to push us to 80 years behind. We should show them that we are not fools to fight for all women rights and one fine day these men’s just come and throw us out from our rights. But sure i will also send pink Chaddi ;-) >From ashley February 10, 2009 11:17 AM visit http://www.pink.in and do your bit! >From Pinky February 10, 2009 11:19 AM Long Live the Pink Pinky campaign. www.pinky.in >From Kittu_ciscoman February 10, 2009 11:22 AM Step 3 is ok the idea is good.but whats the point giving underwears to them?its weird.these guys beat the innocent people for money.so u give them underwears,they are just going to sell it back to whosoever takes it.its just like some childish act coming out of petty attitude. >From BitterTruth February 10, 2009 12:21 PM It is amusing to see the silly indignation and funny outcry after some scantily dressed alcoholic girls got what they deserved -- a few slaps. Had their parents taken notice and acted earlier, this day would not have come. Now, let us talk about the whole legality and morality issue that all the leftists/secular wierdos have been harping about. How come no action is taken when a Karunanidhi makes outrageous insults against Hindu scriptures and deities? How come all the Govt machinery is diverted chasing a bunch of Hindutva dudes instead of killing jehaadi terrorists? How come nobody asks why groups like Sri Ram Sena act this way? Fact is, Hindus are scared. They get ridiculed, coerced to convert, maimed, and killed in their own land. Their culture and way of life is in jeopardy. This has been happening for centuries. When they scream for justice, they are asked to shut up in the name of secularism. Not surprisingly, Hindu patience is running out. >From anamika February 10, 2009 12:35 PM thepinkchaddicampaign.blogspot.com................the ugliest idea from the prone people, better do some good work for the society or else shut your mouth. anybody can create a blog with some non-sense idea, and thousands of people will link the blog just like prone sites blogs, and dont think this is a great idea......... >From Real Truth February 10, 2009 12:35 PM Bitter Truth, You're a moron. >From anu February 10, 2009 1:00 PM No doubt pink chaddi campaign is innovative..will it help? i doubt. >From Karishma February 10, 2009 1:14 PM BitterTruth, go fly a kite. I think somebody should donate BitterTruth the smelliest chaddi!!! >From Karishma February 10, 2009 1:18 PM BitterTruth i am not finished yet! I think you deserve a few slaps yourself for making such a p***k of yourself!!! >From Priya February 10, 2009 1:32 PM Relax guys! Even if nothing happens beyond the delivering of pink underwear, it's an idea and young people somewhere are doing something. Every idea counts in this bleak creativity-free zone we live in. >From T.R.Ramaswami February 10, 2009 1:39 PM The pink chaddi campaigners have got it all wrong. Chaddi is a wesern concept. They should have started a pink langot campaign. Just buy some pink dupattas, cut them into appropriate lengths and send them. >From Adivasi February 10, 2009 1:47 PM Bitter truth, would you be happy if your moms and sisters were beaten up in the same way these Sene goons did? You are really a jerk. You can’t to dictate what should people do and what not to do. >From ramkishan February 10, 2009 1:56 PM beautiful Idea ...we are with u >From Sunuradha February 10, 2009 2:10 PM Whoever has come up with the despicable idea of pink chaddis is out of his mind. Either he does not have the guts to think right or would like to hide after prompting an insane idea. Would the Pink chaddi mastermind dared to send chaddis to Raj Thakeray for what happened to poor people in Mumbai. Would he dare to send 'em to the D Gang who are behind all acts of terror in metros. Please wake up and act like an educated and sane person. It is easy to send Pink Chaddis to some one who will not retaliate and has been constantly apologizing for the heinous act done on women ( Mind you, who were not completely innocent ). Please come up with an innovative idea of exposing netas OR non tax paying film stars OR Terrorists etc. Grow up and act like citizens of an educated IT state, not like a bunch of morons who can speak good english but will behave like 'angutha chaaps' >From truth is truth February 10, 2009 2:28 PM bitter truth, dude who the hell do u thionk you are to slap girls you dont even know....hello wake up.... its none of ur business.... r u so jobless in life that you tell strangers what to do. Go find some worthwhile passtime.... >From diya February 10, 2009 2:31 PM bloody losers u guys dont deserve to live..i am goin out n celebrating v-day in d pub n i dont care wat u guyd do...bcoz d youth of india r independent n much more educated than u guys..u guys r just horny f*****s..n u will never kno wats d importance of v-day >From Bitter Truth February 10, 2009 2:54 PM Its yet another instance of failure of democracy. In the name of freedom, these spoiled brats are bringing our social culture to disrepute. These brats uphold anything thats western, whereas its a proved fact that such habits are becoming dangerous in western societies. You could see a lot of crimes happening in London, New York etc. at the bar premises during night. These hooliganism is the result of inefficiency of Police and Courts to act swiftly against bar owners and illicit trends >From Karishma February 10, 2009 2:55 PM "Please come up with an innovative idea of exposing netas OR non tax paying film stars OR Terrorists etc. Grow up and act like citizens of an educated IT state, not like a bunch of morons who can speak good english but will behave like 'angutha chaaps'" Not a bad idea Sunurater! Why don't you take the lead and we will all join you!! Meanwhile do you have a pink chaddi on you?? >From Karishma February 10, 2009 3:14 PM BitterTruth what social culture are you talking about??? Yes, Indian women get burnt if they don't bring in dowries! Indian women are subjected to groping and molestation in buses and trains! Indian women are subjected to domestic abuse within marriages! Indian women get raped and sexually abused! Indian women get assaulted if they don't give in to their agressors! It is a shame that this is happening in a so called englightened country! It is time that we said enough is enough. If the rabid groups want to uphold Indian culture let them start with extending some shred of respect to women and not treat them like baby producing factories or objects of desire or scum to be kicked around! Please grow up BitterTruth! Meanwhile do you have a pink chaddi on you?? >From Anti SriRamSena February 10, 2009 3:29 PM These days all these Bitches are easily avaialble in pubs and discos for small amount of money and drugs. These Sri Ram Sena thugs are depreiving the enjoyment of modern, cultured men. these b1tch's parents are also un-happy because these girls are making their own pocket money without bothering their modern parents. we should kick Ram sena out of India. Whether a Bitch want to get boned after or before a smoke, drugs and liquor, it's up to her. Her mom and dad feel more classy when she comes back to home after 1:00 am. Who're these Ram Sena people? Cant a B i t c h be a B i t c h in this country? This is insane. It's the right of a B i t c h as to whom she selects to make happy after getting high. May be, tomorrow, it could be your Mr. Happy. Hail the B i t c h e s and their westernized slaves folks. Join the party. As long as these B i t c h e s don't get pregnant and get tested for STDs, I support them and their right to get high and pick a lucky fella to get boned after this. BTW, their families feel more classy and modern after she comes back at 1:00 am. She's happy, her family is happy and someone's Mr. Happy is VERY VERY happy every night. I don't see any downside here to others. Support B i t c h e s and have fun. >From livemint Moderator February 10, 2009 4:24 PM We are closing comments on this post. A reminder to say, that posts on these blogs and the comments that follow are useful to us all when it drives constructive debate. We value your opinion, but let's keep the name calling out. Thanks. http://blogs.livemint.com/blogs/first_cut/archive/2009/02/09/pink-underwear-for-the-sri-ram-sena.aspx From pkray11 at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 21:14:38 2009 From: pkray11 at gmail.com (prakash ray) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 21:14:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Defend the Right to Love Message-ID: <98f331e00902100744i30909cf6sf1edd0db16067444@mail.gmail.com> "Wali jo tu bole yak wachan, rakeebaaN ke dil kaTari lage..." - Wali Dakkani In complete solidarity, Prakash From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Feb 11 07:59:11 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 02:29:11 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath Message-ID: <65be9bf40902101829t4ece9a3bm520fd8a3cf8a96e7@mail.gmail.com> Dear Bipin Why do you think that Modi 'has to fight' at all? Why do you think amongst BJP leaders, people who are perceived as honest, hard working, exceptionally dedicated, efficient and incorruptible, have to often suffer loss of face and humiliation from these bunch of biased NGO's and pseudo-secularist press. We have to remember that Modi is not alone here, with Advani as a worthy party elder, they form a formidable duo. Why is it that people who are engaged in the business of rhetoric and mass persuasion vilify these gifted organizers? From a particular perspective this Modi/Advani 'down-down' drive is completely irrational isn't. I think, these people from the English language press particularly must hang their head in shame. They are not doing a honest, decent job. They must propagate all the good qualities of Modi. After all, it seems that we have a tradition in India, that for any politician to be considered as a great modern ruler they must have blood on thier hands. Be it a Abdullah or a Nehru, or a Rajiv or a Modi or a Advani or a Mahanta or a Patnayak or a Thackery etc etc. It seems though that apart from Nehru who did not discriminate on the basis of religion while letting blood and hence was secular in a way, all other gentlemen were driven cynical objective to let only one kind of blood to grab power. I would like to take a diversion at this point and I wish to pose a question to Inder Salim- what does he think about the idea of universal blood red as a sort of a metaphorical unifier which makes us all Indians. In a way this colour has flowed from Kashmir to Kanyakumari and from Gujarat to Arunachal. In a way we are all victims here. Bipin after reading your mail I had the most profound experience. There was so much of clarity and rationality in your words that I almost felt empathy for the loneliness of Modi, even with so many people, this man seems so alone, so lost in his own world, his dreams of a Ram Rajya, a Sangh Rajya, a Rajya where there is no one to discriminate, where Hindustan can become truly a Hindu-sthan, where only Hindus live, where only Hindi is spoken. This is such a fantastic idea. A grand idea. But please tell me Bipin do you honestly and sincerely believe that Modi will be able to rise above the Asmita of 5 crore Gujaratis, of which he could not feed, FEED, 3 crore of them, forget about his empty rhetoric about Asmita and disgusting notions about cleansing Bharat from all its impurities, this man, howsoever, honest, hard working, exceptionally dedicated, efficient, incorruptible he may be, he was not able to put roti in the mouths of half of the population he was supposed to govern. There is famous Bengali saying, give me rice or else I will eat up your map. For moment if we project Modi to be in charge of a 100 crore Indians, what do we have? 50 crore people suffering from mal nutrition, low body mass index and anemia? Warm regards Taha - Hide quoted text - On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 7:02 AM, bipin wrote: > Dear Taha, > > Sorry for the late reply. > > > First of all, such gimmick created by party workers or chamchas. Of course > I personally hate such chamchagiris. Please note that Modi has to fight > against malicious propaganda made against him by Domestic and International > English media, NGO's (NGO activities are totally biased and they act with > the guidance of their source of funds only) and all pseudo-secularist > parties. While, in the case of CM of MP, there is no such factor to fight. > He just has to put his work honestly. > > > > So naturally, Modi has to put some extra effort to win and put the fact > before public about this malicious propaganda by tolerating such gimmick to > be more popular. > > > > thanks > > Bipin > > > From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Feb 11 08:01:26 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 02:31:26 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Plastic is out, fingerprints are in Message-ID: <65be9bf40902101831w2f40875ei7e3ef54eb641c3e2@mail.gmail.com> http://www.business-standard.com/india/storypage.php?autono=348623 Plastic is out, fingerprints are in Niladri Bhattacharya / Mumbai February 11, 2009, 0:50 IST Smart cards have been outsmarted as the country's largest lender, State Bank of India (SBI), has come up with a card-less transactions that requires only an account holder's fingerprints. he bank has decided to dispense with cards to lower the cost of transactions, particularly for the disbursement of social security pensions and wages under the National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme (NREGS). Under the new system, which is been implemented across the country, a point of sale (POS) machine, comprising bio-metric details of account holders would go to a particular village where the bank's customers can withdraw or deposit funds using the fingerprint-based method. Earlier, each account holder was given a card with a magnetic strip that was swiped at the POS machine before any transaction. The price of a smart card depended on its memory. For instance, 4GB cards cost Rs 75, whereas it costs Rs 140 for a 32GB card. Since the inception of the NREGS in 2004, SBI had disbursed around 1.6 million smart cards across the country, before deciding to shift to the new system a couple of months ago. "In the last two months, we have opened more than 400,000 accounts but we have not disbursed any smart cards thereby saving close to Rs 3 crore," said S Mukhopadhyay, deputy general manager in the bank's rural banking department. What has also helped the bank roll out the new system is the fact that 2 per cent of the no-frills account holders stepped out of their villages. Since most of the account holders only accessed the bank to receive the pension or the NREGS payment, a banking correspondent could easily go with a POS machine at periodic intervals to help them complete their transactions. "These villagers do not require inter-operability, which a smart card offers, since most of them use their accounts only once a month to avail of the NREG scheme, practically the accounts remained dormant for the rest of the month. Therefore, it was not cost-effective for the banks to carry on with cards," an SBI executive said. Other banks, however, have not shifted to card-less transactions. "Different banks use different technologies and we are sticking to a card-based system, at least for the time being," said an executive at a public sector bank executive. The cost-saving is not significant, added another banker. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Feb 11 08:08:22 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 02:38:22 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Cloning and Reading E-Passports and PASS Cards Message-ID: <65be9bf40902101838y7b4289b8y37a1b373427bb657@mail.gmail.com> http://www.rfidjournal.com/blog/entry/4615/ Cloning and Reading E-Passports and PASS Cards RFID Journal Blog Posted By By Mark Roberti, 02.10.2009 A new video shows self-described hacker Chris Paget driving around San Francisco in a car equipped with an ultrahigh-frequency (UHF) RFID interrogator in an effort to read tags embedded in PASS Cards. A number of Web sites have reported this as news, claiming he "skimmed" or "cloned" information from electronic passports. This is not true, however, and what Paget did do isn't nearly as dangerous as it might seem. I'll explain why, but first, here's a little background on the PASS Card. The card was created after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, in an effort to make the U.S. borders more secure without slowing down traffic. It allows Americans driving across U.S. borders, or traveling by sea from Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean or Bermuda, to carry a card containing an RFID chip instead of a traditional passport book. The card, approximately the size of a driver's license, can be read through a vehicle as the owner approaches a border. (Previously, the only identity document an individual required to drive into the United States from Canada was a valid driver's license.) PASS Cards utilize UHF Electronic Product Code (EPC) tags instead of more secure high-frequency RFID tags that support encryption. The reason UHF was chosen was that the card would carry only a random serial number that would be linked to a person's information and photo in a database. As a car approaches a border checkpoint, the driver holds up the card, and the system reads it. By the time the vehicle arrives at the checkpoint, the driver's information is called up on a screen. The border agent looks at the person's face and the picture on the screen, and allows him or her to enter the country if they match. It has been widely reported that the UHF RFID transponders in the PASS Cards do not support encryption and can be read by any UHF reader. As such, consumer privacy groups, as well as some RFID vendors, have called for greater security on the cards (see RFID Vendors Brief Congress on PASS Card Security). So the fact that Paget could drive around San Francisco and read tags is not surprising—what is surprising is how this is being misrepresented. First, Paget himself refers to reading the tags as "cloning" the tags. Cloning a tag means creating a copy of a tag that can be used for nefarious purposes. So the impression a person gets from watching the video is that Paget could use the captured information to pass himself off as the PASS Card's holder. But that's simply not the case—if he were to drive up to the Mexico border-crossing, for example, and present a cloned PASS Card, its serial number would call up the original holder's information and photo. In such an event, there would not be a match, and Paget would be arrested. What's more, the card also contains the name and a photo of the holder printed on the front, so he'd have a problem trying to pass himself off as the person whose tag he read. Some Web sites reporting about Paget's video have claimed he skimmed data from e-passports. Nowhere in the video, however, does he ever say this. In fact, he makes it clear he's talking about PASS Cards and electronic driver's licenses only, which use RFID technology that lacks a great deal of security since it was designed for use in the supply chain, not for identifying people. Following the video's dissemination, the Smart Card Alliance issued a press release clarifying this point. "The Smart Card Alliance wants to make it clear that this [Paget's] demonstration did not involve the blue U.S. electronic passport books," said Randy Vanderhoof, the alliance's executive director. "Headlines stating that passports can be scanned and tracked are wrong. The widely reported demonstration involved U.S. passport cards and enhanced driver's licenses, which use EPC Gen 2 RFID technology. These are different travel documents, and use completely different technologies from U.S. electronic passports, which use contactless smart-card technology and are very privacy-secure." The Smart Card Alliance called for a review of EPC technology use, because the organization promotes the use of more secure forms of RFID. There are, of course, many ways to enhance security, such as employing encryption or shielding to prevent tags from being skimmed. Government agencies should consider all options and choose the most appropriate technology that fits the application and protects the document holder. Paget rightly points out that as RFID becomes more widely used in government identity documents, the potential for abuse grows. He notes that if everyone were to carry a PASS Card and an RFID-enabled credit card, a doorway secretly equipped with a UHF interrogator to read the PASS card and an HF interrogator that can read the RFID tag in contactless credit cards could potentially capture that individual's identity (assuming the person's name were stored on the credit card's tag). Then, the person capturing the information could associate a random number in the PASS Card with a specific individual, and thus use the PASS Card to track that person's movements (a government could do this, for instance, to track opponents). To date, this type of abuse has not occurred, but it could if governments fail to take privacy issues seriously. Unfortunately, misinformation regarding the issues—as in the case of the erroneous coverage involving the Paget demonstration—doesn't help get them resolved. It just creates a lot of fear. Mark Roberti is the founder and editor of RFID Journal. If you would like to comment on this article, click on the link below. To read more of Mark's opinions, click here or here. From peaceshantiaman at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 09:46:12 2009 From: peaceshantiaman at gmail.com (Aman Shanti) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 09:46:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear friends Please see this news item, and also our appeal below. Kindly support our appeal by sending the message across to many friends so that a better sense prevails in this world: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/PoliticsNation/Al_Qaeda_threatens_to_attack_India_for_the_first_time/articleshow/4109243.cms ------ Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world. Islam does not approve the killing of innocent people. Peace-loving Muslims must join hands to convince these extremist elements to desist from their path of terror. Here is an appeal (which is also available on facebook) that needs your support: Indian Muslims Against Terrorism http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=124494910211 Why only Indian Muslims – everyone should be against terrorism. Yes, true - but this group has a certain mandate that related mostly to Indian Muslims (although all others are welcome to join and participate in this forum). We wish to focus on a few specific points that are important to address the issue of regional terrorism. There are two basic claims (made by some), which we want to address here: 1. The claim that "Indian Muslims are persecuted by Hindus, thus world's Muslims need to save them". No, Thank you. We don't need the outside saviors. 2. The claim that "now there are home-bred Muslim terrorists in India that need to be nabbed." Ok, if this is true, then please involve sincere and peace-loving Indian Muslims in the search for such extremist elements in India's Muslim localities, instead of randomly arresting and killing them in encounters. The above two points are detailed here: (1) There is an assumption or discourse coming out of some Muslim countries (such as Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia and others) that "Muslims in India are being victimized and tortured by the Hindus (for example in Gujarat, Kashmir, Ayodhya etc.), and since they are in great danger and helpless in the hands of Hindu extremists, it is the duty of Muslims all over the world to go and save them, and revenge their killings and persecution, by terrorizing the Hindus and damaging the economic might of India." It has been reported that such discourse is part of the training given to the terrorists who allegedly carry out attacks in India. While we don't know for sure if the "terrorists" are given such propaganda, but we assume that many Muslims outside India may certainly have such an impression about India, as one can see in some of the media in the Muslim world. We agree that Muslims in India have been subjected to a lot of violence, torture, prejudice and injustice at various times, probably in the same way as other minorities like dalits (low-caste Hindus), tribals, and women etc. have been treated. But we wish to convey to the "Islamic world" that WE DO NOT NEED THE HELP OF SAVIOURS FROM OUTSIDE India to fight our struggles. (By struggle, we don't mean violent revenge for the injustice, but a simple struggle for survival, and recourse to the law, which luckily is not hopeless in India). Muslims have been living in India for last one millennium, sometimes peacefully and sometimes in conflict, but most of the times trying to carve out ways to co-exist with fellow Indians, and make India a progressive country. The contribution of Muslims to the progress of India need not be repeated here. The bottom-line is: They cannot go anywhere else – India is their home, and they have to struggle here like everyone else. So, please don't meddle into our affairs. This plea is especially for those powerful institutions/organizations in countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan who deliberately support terrorism and violence against India and Hindus. You don't realize that every time there is a terrorist attack in India, although a lot of non-Muslims get killed or affected, but the ultimate loss is that of Indian Muslims. They are the ones who are seen more and more as culprits and a subject of hate and prejudice. It is our children (with Muslim names) who are taunted in Indian schools as "Pakistanis", and it is we who cannot rent a house in a mainstream colony because of our Muslim tag, all because of you. So, our Islamic brothers, YOU ARE NOT HELPING US come out of our suffering at all. You are actually pushing us further into a furnace by carrying out the terrorist attacks on "Hindus". We request and plead you to have mercy on this beautiful country and the world, and stop your senseless jihad. If you are told that you will to go to heaven (and get houris) when you die for the cause of Islam, you are highly mistaken and misled. You will surely burn in hell for harming innocent people. This world is not only for Muslims – it is for everyone; whatever religion or culture they may follow. So, live and let live. (2) The above message was meant for the "terrorists" infiltrating from outside India and their supporters/sympathizers. And now for the "home-grown" breed of terrorists. After the horrific 9/11 attacks, it was reported by many that among the Muslim terrorists operating all over the world, there are actually no Indian Muslims involved. (Although Indian media and intelligence department had been claiming since many years that Muslim madrasas are the breeding grounds of terrorism, but not a single Indian madrasa has so far been found to be involved in such activity). Every one was happy and proud about the news of India Muslims' non-involvement in terrorism. But suddenly, after the 2002 Gujarat pogrom, it was reported that Muslims residing in India are becoming terrorists too, and many of them highly educated-ones (engineers, doctors, IT professionals, etc.). They use new technology of Internet, cell-phones and deadly explosive material supplied by their counterparts from across the border. Subsequently, hundreds of young boys from Muslim localities have been arrested and tortured by the Indian police, some even killed in encounters. But most of them so far have only been accused and almost none ultimately convicted or punished for an act of terrorism, due to a lack of substantial evidence against them. Most Muslims and some human rights activists argue that those arrested or killed Muslim boys have nothing to do with terrorist activities and have been framed wrongly. After seeing the adverse role of the police in recent incidents such as an encounter at Batla House (Delhi) in September 2008 where 2 such accused (and a police inspector) were killed, the Muslim community has lost all faith in the police and intelligence agencies, fearing that due to their prejudice they could arrest and kill any Muslim at will in their war against terror. Their investigations are not transparent, their proofs are not convincing, and their encounters with terrorists look stage-managed. However, such a reaction from Muslims is also considered by some as a "denial mode", and it is suggested (especially by the mainstream media) that Muslims need to come out of this mode and accept the reality that home-bred terrorists do exist in the community, especially since those who carried out the recent blasts (in 2008) did claim that they are "home-bred" terrorists. If the internal Muslims are truly involved in such activities, and if we are serious about nabbing and punishing them, it would be good for the peace-loving Muslims themselves to come forward and make a strategy to help eradicate this menace, rather than to leave it only to the state-forces. Here is some advices worth considering: It is accepted by the media and the police that all Muslims are not terrorists, but some Muslims do resort to extremism and violence, and that the peace-loving intelligentsia among the Muslim community should take responsibility to root out the bad elements. This is often repeated on every news channel and newspaper after every attack: Secular and elite Muslims need to sift out the extremist elements in their community. Well, no right thinking Muslim can deny this responsibility and there are many who are eagerly ready to play that role. But terrorism or extremist elements of the society cannot be eradicated by only their efforts, if the govt. and the police themselves have been unable to do so. They need the same logistical support and resources to bring out any change in the community, which the authorities use. In fact, a more practical idea today would be an active coordination between the intelligence agencies, the police, the judiciary and the responsible people in the Muslim community. But for that to happen, the first and foremost requirement is for the officials to TRUST THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY. It is a widely known fact that the number and ratio of Muslims in Indian security forces, police, intelligence, ministries and other important institutions is very abysmal – at least not proportionate to their population. Moreover, in the war against the terror, the authorities never talk to the responsible people from the community leave aside involving them actively. A specific recent case that can serve as an example: Take the case of the recent police-terrorist encounter at Jamia Nagar, Delhi. The Delhi Police (and its Special Cell) not only did not inform any of the local citizens of the area before or during the operation (while they gave prior information to the media), but also made no effort to communicate to the frightened local residents afterwards (even during their further arrests of youngsters from the locality), while the theories of the encounter being fake were spreading in the locality. Their encounter of 19th September 2008 was like a very specialized surgical operation done on the body without giving it anesthesia or stitching it back, or allowing it to heal. This simply shows that they either look at the entire community with prejudice and suspicion (of harbouring the terror within), or they are not genuinely interested in uprooting the nuisance of terror, and only want to continue showing to the world that Muslim terrorists exist. They further infuriated many Muslims the next day by showcasing the three arrested suspects to the media by covering their faces/heads in the stereotypical pink Arab scarves, which is a clichéd symbol of orthodox Muslims or Palestinian extremists. If the authorities start trusting the community and seriously involve them in uprooting the internal terrorism, it may show better results than secret raids and encounters. Some residents of Batla House gathered outside the encounter site the next day said "even if there were terrorists holed up in the flat, with weapons, there was a way to peacefully flush them out. After all they were not holding any hostages. The police knew their location in advance. It could have taken some neighbours into confidence, emptied the entire neighbourhood, blocked all exit paths from the flat, and then waited (even if for days) until the boys got fed up or famished, and surrendered. There were lots of possibilities, if there was a will." What is required today is a confidence building between the police and the people, and some kind citizen's initiatives or neighbourhood-watch schemes, (which already exist in some of the posh areas of Indian towns). The smaller towns (such as Azamgarh) or ghettoized localities (such as Batla House) in the cities, where such initiatives are required more, are unfortunately left to rot by our civic authorities. They could be the breeding grounds of a lot of anti-social elements, but the authorities are equally responsible for their sorry state. Thus, a long-term solution to the mushrooming of internal terror is possible only with a multi-pronged approach, the first requirement of which is to eradicate the corruption and communal bias in the police department, and make them people-friendly. They need to involve senior and serious citizens of a locality to nab the likely culprits of terror in their area. But this effort should not mean vigilance and security measures so strict that they affect the privacy and trust between people in a locality. ==== Please join our facebook group to participate in this campaign: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=124494910211 From gora at sarai.net Wed Feb 11 10:59:23 2009 From: gora at sarai.net (Gora Mohanty) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 10:59:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] FAT announces "Workshop on Creating Effective Videos with Simple, Easy-to-use Technologies" (25th - 27th March 2009, New Delhi) Message-ID: <20090211105923.1324e5e1@mail.sarai.net> Hello all, Below is an announcement of a workshop to be held at the Sarai, CSDS seminar hall from 9.30am-5pm, 25th-27th March, 2009. The goal of the workshop is to facilitate the creation of effective videos with simple technology by social organisations, and especially women working in this sector. This is posted on behalf of the group, Feminist Approach to Technology, who will be organising the event. A detailed schedule will be available later. Regards, Gora ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Gayatri Buragohain Date: Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 3:56 PM Subject: FAT announces "Workshop on Creating Effective Videos with Simple, Easy-to-use Technologies" (25th - 27th March 2009, New Delhi) To: gayatri.buragohain at fat-net.org Audio-Visual as a form of media is a very powerful tool for social change. Social causes can give out the right ideas and get their message across to people better when they can bring forward those who are directly impacted by it. Genuine photographs, candid footage, supported with complementing sound-effects, music and voice-overs can be developed into short movies which bring out the essence of what an individual or organization wants to convey. If pictures speak a thousand words, then films are thousands of pictures strung together! Films are more evocative than just pictures or text vis-à-vis being natural and adding a touch of reality to an endeavor. Organizations working on a not-for-profit model can use audio-visual media as an inexpensive alternative to professional filmmaking. This media is certainly the best for creating awareness, educating, training, evoking action, campaigning and even fund raising! Everybody has a story to tell and videos help them relive those moments with the help of simple technology. "Digital storytelling" helps ordinary people portray their experiences and emotions in a compelling as well as engaging manner. The digital stories help them share their tales in ways that they feel comfortable in. These can be created on any available computer - with select photographs and clips – making them personal and heart rendering. These help capture the right tone and expression of those whose lives the cause is making a difference in! OBJECTIVE OF THE WORKSHOP: The core objective of the workshop is to empower women working in the development sector (associated with a non-profit organization or working individually) to get their message across in a strong and effective manner. With films created with footage shot through handy-cams, pictures, voice-overs, sound effects and music we believe that these women can make a better impact and be heard! The workshop also aims to make them understand how visual media as a tool can work wonders in bringing about a social change. CONTENT: Basics of Audio-Visual Media Handling Handy-cams Basics of Shooting Visuals Different Kinds of Shooting for Different Situations Converting Handy-cam tapes to Digital media files Using Simple User-friendly Editing Software Basics of Editing Digital Storytelling How to Use your Audio-Visual Media APPLICATIONS SOLICITED FROM: Women working towards a social cause, whether associated with a non-profit organization or working individually. MINIMUM REQUIREMENT: Basic Computer Literacy COSTS: Participants are expected to contribute Rs. 5000 to cover the tuition and logistic costs. They will have to bear their own travel expenses. Outstation participants will have to arrange for their own stay. ORGANIZERS Feminist Approach to Technology (FAT) Feminist Approach to Technology (FAT) is a not-for-profit organization based in New Delhi working towards empowering women through technology. The organization aims at increasing women's awareness, interest and participation in technology in order to decrease the gender divide in technology usage and increase women's participation in technical workforce and policy making. Website: www.fat-net.org Dusty Foot Productions Dusty Foot Productions, headed by Rita Banerji, represents a team of filmmakers who all share a common vision of establishing a place recognized for films on wildlife and environment. Since 2002 Dusty Foot team has produced several documentaries and television shows and some of the recent projects 'Right to Survive' and 'Earth Calling' have won awards at environment film festivals across the country. Website: www.dustyfootindia.com Mixed Media Productions Mixed Media Productions, set up by Aparna Sanyal and Gaurav Dhingra, brings together their enthusiasm for working in cutting-edge productions with an appetite for putting together compelling narratives. Having worked on documentaries, television shows and feature films, the two co-founders bring together their core competencies as content and line producers to create exciting and engaging content for the discerning viewer. Website: www.mixedmediaproductions.com REGISTRATION CLOSES ON: 10th March 2009 HOW TO APPLY: Please fill the attached from and email it to projects at fat-net.org. Payments will be accepted in the form of demand drafts payable to "Feminist Approach to Technology Society" for the amount of Rs. 5000. Both the form and the demand draft need to reach the below mentioned address, on or before 10th March 2009. Feminist Approach to Technology (FAT) Flat no: G 102, 1st Floor 70 A, Hometech Apartment, G 2, Ber Sarai, Near Old JNU Campus. New Delhi - 110016 Phone number: 9953679547 From c.anupam at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 11:36:23 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 11:36:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <341380d00902102206n6658ce1av6d91b914e76cacd2@mail.gmail.com> dear aman, shanti, peace and other such things, i would have supported this appeal had it not used these words: "Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world." why do indian muslims always have to give a certificate that they are clean? why? what is the difference between al-qaeda and you? both of you judging the plight of the identities ignoring the fact that conflicts are directed against weaker sections. and then you go on to say: The claim that "Indian Muslims are persecuted by Hindus, thus world's Muslims need to save them". No, Thank you. We don't need the outside saviors. Yes, but you prefer mossad and FBI coming over as your security agencies are not adequately equipped to investigate any case. Dont you? with best wishes, anupam On 2/11/09, Aman Shanti wrote: > > Dear friends > Please see this news item, and also our appeal below. Kindly support > our appeal by sending the message across to many friends so that a > better sense prevails in this world: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/PoliticsNation/Al_Qaeda_threatens_to_attack_India_for_the_first_time/articleshow/4109243.cms > ------ > > Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its > allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world. > Islam does not approve the killing of innocent people. Peace-loving > Muslims must join hands to convince these extremist elements to desist > from their path of terror. Here is an appeal (which is also available > on facebook) that needs your support: > > Indian Muslims Against Terrorism > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=124494910211 > > Why only Indian Muslims – everyone should be against terrorism. Yes, > true - but this group has a certain mandate that related mostly to > Indian Muslims (although all others are welcome to join and > participate in this forum). We wish to focus on a few specific points > that are important to address the issue of regional terrorism. There > are two basic claims (made by some), which we want to address here: > > 1. The claim that "Indian Muslims are persecuted by Hindus, thus > world's Muslims need to save them". No, Thank you. We don't need the > outside saviors. > > 2. The claim that "now there are home-bred Muslim terrorists in India > that need to be nabbed." Ok, if this is true, then please involve > sincere and peace-loving Indian Muslims in the search for such > extremist elements in India's Muslim localities, instead of randomly > arresting and killing them in encounters. > > The above two points are detailed here: > > (1) There is an assumption or discourse coming out of some Muslim > countries (such as Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia and others) > that "Muslims in India are being victimized and tortured by the Hindus > (for example in Gujarat, Kashmir, Ayodhya etc.), and since they are in > great danger and helpless in the hands of Hindu extremists, it is the > duty of Muslims all over the world to go and save them, and revenge > their killings and persecution, by terrorizing the Hindus and damaging > the economic might of India." It has been reported that such discourse > is part of the training given to the terrorists who allegedly carry > out attacks in India. While we don't know for sure if the "terrorists" > are given such propaganda, but we assume that many Muslims outside > India may certainly have such an impression about India, as one can > see in some of the media in the Muslim world. > > We agree that Muslims in India have been subjected to a lot of > violence, torture, prejudice and injustice at various times, probably > in the same way as other minorities like dalits (low-caste Hindus), > tribals, and women etc. have been treated. But we wish to convey to > the "Islamic world" that WE DO NOT NEED THE HELP OF SAVIOURS FROM > OUTSIDE India to fight our struggles. (By struggle, we don't mean > violent revenge for the injustice, but a simple struggle for survival, > and recourse to the law, which luckily is not hopeless in India). > Muslims have been living in India for last one millennium, sometimes > peacefully and sometimes in conflict, but most of the times trying to > carve out ways to co-exist with fellow Indians, and make India a > progressive country. The contribution of Muslims to the progress of > India need not be repeated here. The bottom-line is: They cannot go > anywhere else – India is their home, and they have to struggle here > like everyone else. So, please don't meddle into our affairs. > > This plea is especially for those powerful institutions/organizations > in countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan who deliberately support > terrorism and violence against India and Hindus. You don't realize > that every time there is a terrorist attack in India, although a lot > of non-Muslims get killed or affected, but the ultimate loss is that > of Indian Muslims. They are the ones who are seen more and more as > culprits and a subject of hate and prejudice. It is our children (with > Muslim names) who are taunted in Indian schools as "Pakistanis", and > it is we who cannot rent a house in a mainstream colony because of our > Muslim tag, all because of you. So, our Islamic brothers, YOU ARE NOT > HELPING US come out of our suffering at all. You are actually pushing > us further into a furnace by carrying out the terrorist attacks on > "Hindus". We request and plead you to have mercy on this beautiful > country and the world, and stop your senseless jihad. If you are told > that you will to go to heaven (and get houris) when you die for the > cause of Islam, you are highly mistaken and misled. You will surely > burn in hell for harming innocent people. This world is not only for > Muslims – it is for everyone; whatever religion or culture they may > follow. So, live and let live. > > (2) The above message was meant for the "terrorists" infiltrating from > outside India and their supporters/sympathizers. And now for the > "home-grown" breed of terrorists. After the horrific 9/11 attacks, it > was reported by many that among the Muslim terrorists operating all > over the world, there are actually no Indian Muslims involved. > (Although Indian media and intelligence department had been claiming > since many years that Muslim madrasas are the breeding grounds of > terrorism, but not a single Indian madrasa has so far been found to be > involved in such activity). Every one was happy and proud about the > news of India Muslims' non-involvement in terrorism. But suddenly, > after the 2002 Gujarat pogrom, it was reported that Muslims residing > in India are becoming terrorists too, and many of them highly > educated-ones (engineers, doctors, IT professionals, etc.). They use > new technology of Internet, cell-phones and deadly explosive material > supplied by their counterparts from across the border. > > Subsequently, hundreds of young boys from Muslim localities have been > arrested and tortured by the Indian police, some even killed in > encounters. But most of them so far have only been accused and almost > none ultimately convicted or punished for an act of terrorism, due to > a lack of substantial evidence against them. Most Muslims and some > human rights activists argue that those arrested or killed Muslim boys > have nothing to do with terrorist activities and have been framed > wrongly. After seeing the adverse role of the police in recent > incidents such as an encounter at Batla House (Delhi) in September > 2008 where 2 such accused (and a police inspector) were killed, the > Muslim community has lost all faith in the police and intelligence > agencies, fearing that due to their prejudice they could arrest and > kill any Muslim at will in their war against terror. Their > investigations are not transparent, their proofs are not convincing, > and their encounters with terrorists look stage-managed. > > However, such a reaction from Muslims is also considered by some as a > "denial mode", and it is suggested (especially by the mainstream > media) that Muslims need to come out of this mode and accept the > reality that home-bred terrorists do exist in the community, > especially since those who carried out the recent blasts (in 2008) did > claim that they are "home-bred" terrorists. If the internal Muslims > are truly involved in such activities, and if we are serious about > nabbing and punishing them, it would be good for the peace-loving > Muslims themselves to come forward and make a strategy to help > eradicate this menace, rather than to leave it only to the > state-forces. Here is some advices worth considering: > > It is accepted by the media and the police that all Muslims are not > terrorists, but some Muslims do resort to extremism and violence, and > that the peace-loving intelligentsia among the Muslim community should > take responsibility to root out the bad elements. This is often > repeated on every news channel and newspaper after every attack: > Secular and elite Muslims need to sift out the extremist elements in > their community. Well, no right thinking Muslim can deny this > responsibility and there are many who are eagerly ready to play that > role. But terrorism or extremist elements of the society cannot be > eradicated by only their efforts, if the govt. and the police > themselves have been unable to do so. They need the same logistical > support and resources to bring out any change in the community, which > the authorities use. In fact, a more practical idea today would be an > active coordination between the intelligence agencies, the police, the > judiciary and the responsible people in the Muslim community. But for > that to happen, the first and foremost requirement is for the > officials to TRUST THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY. It is a widely known fact > that the number and ratio of Muslims in Indian security forces, > police, intelligence, ministries and other important institutions is > very abysmal – at least not proportionate to their population. > Moreover, in the war against the terror, the authorities never talk to > the responsible people from the community leave aside involving them > actively. > > A specific recent case that can serve as an example: > > Take the case of the recent police-terrorist encounter at Jamia Nagar, > Delhi. The Delhi Police (and its Special Cell) not only did not inform > any of the local citizens of the area before or during the operation > (while they gave prior information to the media), but also made no > effort to communicate to the frightened local residents afterwards > (even during their further arrests of youngsters from the locality), > while the theories of the encounter being fake were spreading in the > locality. Their encounter of 19th September 2008 was like a very > specialized surgical operation done on the body without giving it > anesthesia or stitching it back, or allowing it to heal. This simply > shows that they either look at the entire community with prejudice and > suspicion (of harbouring the terror within), or they are not genuinely > interested in uprooting the nuisance of terror, and only want to > continue showing to the world that Muslim terrorists exist. They > further infuriated many Muslims the next day by showcasing the three > arrested suspects to the media by covering their faces/heads in the > stereotypical pink Arab scarves, which is a clichéd symbol of orthodox > Muslims or Palestinian extremists. > > If the authorities start trusting the community and seriously involve > them in uprooting the internal terrorism, it may show better results > than secret raids and encounters. Some residents of Batla House > gathered outside the encounter site the next day said "even if there > were terrorists holed up in the flat, with weapons, there was a way to > peacefully flush them out. After all they were not holding any > hostages. The police knew their location in advance. It could have > taken some neighbours into confidence, emptied the entire > neighbourhood, blocked all exit paths from the flat, and then waited > (even if for days) until the boys got fed up or famished, and > surrendered. There were lots of possibilities, if there was a will." > What is required today is a confidence building between the police and > the people, and some kind citizen's initiatives or neighbourhood-watch > schemes, (which already exist in some of the posh areas of Indian > towns). > > The smaller towns (such as Azamgarh) or ghettoized localities (such as > Batla House) in the cities, where such initiatives are required more, > are unfortunately left to rot by our civic authorities. They could be > the breeding grounds of a lot of anti-social elements, but the > authorities are equally responsible for their sorry state. Thus, a > long-term solution to the mushrooming of internal terror is possible > only with a multi-pronged approach, the first requirement of which is > to eradicate the corruption and communal bias in the police > department, and make them people-friendly. They need to involve senior > and serious citizens of a locality to nab the likely culprits of > terror in their area. But this effort should not mean vigilance and > security measures so strict that they affect the privacy and trust > between people in a locality. > ==== > > Please join our facebook group to participate in this campaign: > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=124494910211 > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From jeebesh at sarai.net Wed Feb 11 14:48:06 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 14:48:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] From the newspaper. Message-ID: <44EDBD72-06E8-4E71-8A39-D2008C145024@sarai.net> Reading the newspaper from various parts of the world, this can be gleaned over. AXIOMS: Go to Work and Produce and get your wages. Pay your taxes so that state can protect you and build infrastructure and social welfare mechanisms. Buy goods, food, basic necessities, a house maybe, a few dvds etc. Invest some for your old age needs. BUT Now this equation has gone a bit wrong. Go to work but not sure the wages will come. The company may just close. It may just keep shrinking. Some "bad" management are simply swindling the companies of it's assets and wealth. Very bad! State urgently needs to pump in unprecedented money (in many trillion dollar obviously) to keep afloat financial institutions, manufacturing units, infrastructure constructions, manage social conflicts, act self-righteous to assuage anger of dissolution, encourage people to keep buying. From hard state, soft state, etc to Busy State. Buy basic necessities and keep some for harder time ahead. Sidelines: Is our investments safe? Should we shift it.? How to ensure it? Our old age is in danger. THEN State needs to spend more. It needs to draw more revenue. How does it manage it? More taxation will be dangerous, less taxation will inject growth. What to do? Manufacturing unit to get up, produce and need to sell. Fast. How? To whom? Save your jobs, wages and savings? How? Newspapers are fun these days!! warmly jeebesh From kaksanjay at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 15:12:40 2009 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 15:12:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] What is the harm in celebrating 'Valentine day' ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5c5369880902110142s2cb9d4e8t5215dbfe257e32ea@mail.gmail.com> Since this List periodically carries postings that can be loosely called "educational", I take the liberty of forwarding something that came in the mail today. The usual disclaimers about cross-posting etc apply. Best Sanjay Visit HJS Campaign 'Beware of Valentine day' l http://www.hindujagruti.org/activities/campaigns/religious/valentine-day/ What is the harm in celebrating 'Valentine day' ? There is no scientific or any cultural basis to this day. As the so called priest Valentine himself was involved in the anti-national acts during his time, then how one can get any benefit by celebrating the day in his name? On this day young girls and boys come together at pubs, sea shores, hotels, colleges etc and indulge in indecent acts. A common person finds it difficult to even go around such places at this time. Some organisations even organize such programs where the young boys and girls can stay together. The young students of schools and colleges are falling prey to such culture and express their love to each other by way of exchanging greeting cards. But actually speaking it is not love but only an attraction to the opposite sex at a tender and immature age. There are several examples of such mentally ill patients available with Psychiatrists who have stuck to their mental illness by 'proposing' on 'Valentine Day'. It has long lasting bad effect on any youth's career and also on the society. The seeds are planted on this day to grow up and cause the destabilization of society through fall in morality. We can know about direct attacks from outside enemy but cultural invasion is very difficult to detect and even some times difficult to defend ourselves from its evil results. Cultural derailment always takes the society towards destruction which is being experienced in our Bharat (India) today. Many western countries do not celebrate this day. 'Calendar of Roman Catholic Saints' was prepared in 1969. 'Valentine's Day' was omitted from the general Roman calendar. If this is so then why should we value this day in our Hindustan? The western custom put the parents in 'old age home' and then celebrate showy 'Mother's Day' and 'Father's Day' for one day! Same is the case of 'Valentine day'. Is the real love showy and limited to just one day? In Indian culture we have numbers of festivals to express love towards each other and also it is part of our lifestyle. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is time to change the days that defy our ethos ! Since Hinduism is ancient and eternal, it relates everything to various forms of God. Following examples will bring home the Greatness of Hinduism. They will also throw light on how the Bharatiyas are still under the psychological bondage of the British. Example 1: The frequencies of Prajapati come to the Earth in larger measures on the day of Gudipadva. However instead of celebrating that day as the 'New Year' day, the Government celebrates 1st January as the New Year's day, which is not based on any Principle. Example 2: Instead of calculating time based on the Bhartiya Culture ('Shalivahan Shaka') the Government uses the Christian Era (A.D), which has no relevance to any particular time or zone. Example 3: The Guru Principle decends on Earth in large measures on the day of Gurupournima. In all fairness that day should be celebrated as 'Teachers Day'. However it is celebrated on the birth anniversary of Ex-President Dr.Radhakrishnan. In the Ishwariya Rajya (Divine Kingdom) we are going to change all such things which are not related to Hindu Religion and Culture in anyway. To know more visit..... http://www.hindujagruti.org/activities/campaigns/religious/valentine-day/ Forward this message to your near and dear ones for awareness.......... From yasir.media at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 19:03:09 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?windows-1256?B?eWFzaXIgfu3HINPR?=) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 14:33:09 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Is anyone thinking about boycotting Pakistan? Conversations Message-ID: <5af37bb0902110533l3ec5f565uab97d225c99e5101@mail.gmail.com> No I am not thinking of boycotting pakistan, but certainly i favour a boycott of Israel along south african lines. A south african union of port workers has called for the boycott of israel refusing to offload shipments there. i dont knowthe details butthere is some significance in it coming from post apartheid south africa http://www.transportworkers.org/node/1001 a pakistani boycott of israel doesn't really affect israeli pakistani relations which were improving during Musharraf's time but with the palestine /ghazza issue it makes sense to do/continue it, altho an indian boycott could affect israeli-indian relations negatively. an indian boycott of pakistan doesn't make much sense since the relations are bad anyway. so maybe india attacking pakistan is an action just down the line - so a war may be the right way to go, especially if the boycott is international such as after the nuclear tests in pokhran and chagai baluchistan. then its a short walk from toba tek singh to chernobyl: http://www.premiosergiomotta.org.br/blog/chernobyl2.php?itemid=147 but like india has lost its nerve with israel since the non-aligned movement waned which i imagine nehru must have advocated, india just does not have it to go to war with pakistan leaving aside the aggressive posturing, and pakistans conciliatory tone. If there is anything they shouldd be doing its ending the militancy in afghanistan and the pakistani tribal areas, which willeventually also berelated to a climb down from the mountains of kashmir. now who has the guts to breathe that fresh air. India ? I really dont think the 90's could have happened in Kashmir without the Cold War Afghanistan engagement since the 70's.. but conversations and digressions should flow: http://dawn.com/weekly/books/books2.htm best yasir From yasir.media at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 19:12:26 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?windows-1256?B?eWFzaXIgfu3HINPR?=) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 14:42:26 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear In-Reply-To: <222708.90849.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <222708.90849.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0902110542x5ec41d29i6318231e9b8d1a55@mail.gmail.com> thats a half callous statement if there is no mention of the nature of the indian army's presence in kashmir, like the pk army's actions such as aerial bombings in fata. and of course afghanistan pakistan and india are strung together in a sandwich, a south asian a bun kebab. On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > What Pakistan and Pakistanis and their supporters in Kashmir did to Kashmir, is now being done in Swat, Pakistan by it's own Pakistanis. > > Kshmendra > > > "Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear" > By Sher Baz Khan > Tuesday, 03 Feb, 2009 > > (MINGORA: The road to Swat used to be a byword for breathtaking beauty. Although it remains the most picturesque in the country, it now conjures up fear and lurking danger.) > The journey upwards from Mardan these days is forbidding. The entire route is a picture of utter desolation. Fear of the unknown has overtaken a place fabled for its fertile fields and majestic mountains. > Even a flying visit is enough to fill one with a sense of foreboding that religious extremists would overrun the valley before long. > Most people, especially those living in urban areas, seem to have lost the will to live. > Things started taking an ugly turn in July 2007 after the then NWFP chief minister Shamsul Mulk called in paramilitary forces to take on militants fired by Maulana Fazlullah's inflammatory rhetoric. > But the decision seems to have rebounded on the government, for now at least. The Maulana's followers hold sway over no less than 80 per cent of the Swat valley. > The Army is into the third phase of an operation that has seen the state's writ shrinking by the day. Of late the Taliban have made inroads into even settled areas, such as, Mardan, Takhtbai, Shergarh, and almost the entire Malakand Agency. > Taliban are spreading their message in the same way as they did, and still do, in Swat. The medium of the message is fear. In fact, fear is the message. > The moment I entered the region, I was struck by unmistakable signs of a place steadily turning its back on the outside world. Institution after institution is falling to the Taliban. > Non-combatants have a stark choice: seek refuge in other places or accept the diktat of Maulana Fazlullah. > I managed to strike conversations with some Swatis, albeit after much persuasion. > Abdullah Khan, a draper, narrated the ordeal of his brother, Rauf Khan, especially his treatment by a Rawalpindi-based psychiatrist. > 'Rauf saw the beheading of a man in a butcher shop by militants. Since that day he either laughs loudly or sheds tears in silence,' Abdullah said. > A stroll through Mingora's main marketplace brought us face to face with misery. A number of people poured their hearts out to us. > 'The thunder of bombs, rockets, grenades and whatnot linger in our ears.' > 'Go to the psychiatrists of Peshawar and Rawalpindi and ask them how many children, men and women from Swat they are treating these days. I bet the number will baffle you,' said Ajmal Khan, a college student. > The locals alleged that the military operation had killed more non-combatants than militants. > The economic fallout of the conflict is ominous. Most of the 1,000 hotels have gone out of business. The rent-a-car business is also dying out. > Shops dealing in CDs and operators of cable television have folded up after Maulana Fazlullah's warnings. > Barber shops have put up notices that they would not shave off beards as the Taliban have told them not to do so. > A glitzy plaza caught my eye with its elegant shops, but sadly there were no shoppers. > 'Women are not allowed to enter the premises unless they are accompanied by men,' read a banner fluttering over the entrance to the mall. > A number of tailors said they had been told not to let women enter their shops. > 'The upper and middle classes are leaving the valley and settling down elsewhere,' said Aleem Jan, a tailor making women's suits. He is among many who are planning to move to either Mardan or Peshawar. > Advertisement hoardings carrying pictures of women are disallowed. > Faces of women in ads are blackened or deformed. > A building housing the court is empty of lawyers and litigants as Taliban have decreed that the existing judicial order is un-Islamic. They have set up 73 sharia courts to administer 'speedy justice'. > These courts summon people on phone, threatening violators with death. > And speedy justice it is indeed. They settle cases within a couple of days. Hence they are getting popular. > 'A summon from the court of Fazlullah is like a death warrant. No one dare disobey it,' said Jamil Ahmed, a lawyer. > Although he favoured the existing judicial system, he was all praise for the sharia courts as they decide cases in no time. > Jamil cited the example of a woman whose plea for dissolution was decided the other day by a local court. The matter was lingering for the past 22 years. > She had applied for dissolution of marriage at the age of 21 and now she is 43. > The president of the Swat Bar Association, Aftab Alam, is against a parallel judiciary. But he too said judges should try to dispose of cases in 'reasonable time' to undercut the Taliban courts. > Only two of the 14 policewomen who worked in the district court take the trouble to report for duty these days. But they wear veils and keep a low profile, mostly hiding themselves behind bushes. > Almost all the legislators belonging to the ruling Awami National Party have fled from Swat. The exception is Afzal Khan Lala. All of them are on the Taliban's hit list. > > > http://www.dawn.net/wps/wcm/connect/Dawn%20Content%20Library/dawn/news/pakistan/nwfp/tourist-heaven-turns-into-valley-of-fear-ha > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From c.anupam at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 19:39:07 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:39:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India In-Reply-To: References: <341380d00902102206n6658ce1av6d91b914e76cacd2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00902110609l5eac9a8dnb1d609ed873e706c@mail.gmail.com> i apologise for not being clear. the problem is, alqaeda prefers identity politics as means of explaining the wrong doings directed against weaker sections ( economically and socially). similarly you have also played into their hands by making the plea to "indian muslims" to ask al-qaeda to "stop hurting and threatening india." On 2/11/09, Aman Shanti wrote: > > Dear Anupam > Sorry, but your message is a bit unclear on exactly what your problem > is. Especially these sentence: could you please explain in detail as > to what you mean: > > [what is the difference between al-qaeda and you? both of you judging > > the plight of the identities ignoring the fact that conflicts are > directed > > against weaker sections.] > > and > > [Yes, but you prefer mossad and FBI coming over as your security agencies > are > > not adequately equipped to investigate any case. Dont you?] > > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 11:36 AM, anupam chakravartty > wrote: > > dear aman, shanti, peace and other such things, > > > > i would have supported this appeal had it not used these words: > > > > "Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its > > allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world." > > > > why do indian muslims always have to give a certificate that they are > clean? > > why? what is the difference between al-qaeda and you? both of you judging > > the plight of the identities ignoring the fact that conflicts are > directed > > against weaker sections. > > > > and then you go on to say: > > > > The claim that "Indian Muslims are persecuted by Hindus, thus > > world's Muslims need to save them". No, Thank you. We don't need the > > outside saviors. > > > > Yes, but you prefer mossad and FBI coming over as your security agencies > are > > not adequately equipped to investigate any case. Dont you? > > > > with best wishes, > > > > anupam > > > > > > > > On 2/11/09, Aman Shanti wrote: > >> > >> Dear friends > >> Please see this news item, and also our appeal below. Kindly support > >> our appeal by sending the message across to many friends so that a > >> better sense prevails in this world: > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/PoliticsNation/Al_Qaeda_threatens_to_attack_India_for_the_first_time/articleshow/4109243.cms > >> ------ > >> > >> Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its > >> allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world. > >> Islam does not approve the killing of innocent people. Peace-loving > >> Muslims must join hands to convince these extremist elements to desist > >> from their path of terror. Here is an appeal (which is also available > >> on facebook) that needs your support: > >> > >> Indian Muslims Against Terrorism > >> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=124494910211 > >> > >> Why only Indian Muslims – everyone should be against terrorism. Yes, > >> true - but this group has a certain mandate that related mostly to > >> Indian Muslims (although all others are welcome to join and > >> participate in this forum). We wish to focus on a few specific points > >> that are important to address the issue of regional terrorism. There > >> are two basic claims (made by some), which we want to address here: > >> > >> 1. The claim that "Indian Muslims are persecuted by Hindus, thus > >> world's Muslims need to save them". No, Thank you. We don't need the > >> outside saviors. > >> > >> 2. The claim that "now there are home-bred Muslim terrorists in India > >> that need to be nabbed." Ok, if this is true, then please involve > >> sincere and peace-loving Indian Muslims in the search for such > >> extremist elements in India's Muslim localities, instead of randomly > >> arresting and killing them in encounters. > >> > >> The above two points are detailed here: > >> > >> (1) There is an assumption or discourse coming out of some Muslim > >> countries (such as Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia and others) > >> that "Muslims in India are being victimized and tortured by the Hindus > >> (for example in Gujarat, Kashmir, Ayodhya etc.), and since they are in > >> great danger and helpless in the hands of Hindu extremists, it is the > >> duty of Muslims all over the world to go and save them, and revenge > >> their killings and persecution, by terrorizing the Hindus and damaging > >> the economic might of India." It has been reported that such discourse > >> is part of the training given to the terrorists who allegedly carry > >> out attacks in India. While we don't know for sure if the "terrorists" > >> are given such propaganda, but we assume that many Muslims outside > >> India may certainly have such an impression about India, as one can > >> see in some of the media in the Muslim world. > >> > >> We agree that Muslims in India have been subjected to a lot of > >> violence, torture, prejudice and injustice at various times, probably > >> in the same way as other minorities like dalits (low-caste Hindus), > >> tribals, and women etc. have been treated. But we wish to convey to > >> the "Islamic world" that WE DO NOT NEED THE HELP OF SAVIOURS FROM > >> OUTSIDE India to fight our struggles. (By struggle, we don't mean > >> violent revenge for the injustice, but a simple struggle for survival, > >> and recourse to the law, which luckily is not hopeless in India). > >> Muslims have been living in India for last one millennium, sometimes > >> peacefully and sometimes in conflict, but most of the times trying to > >> carve out ways to co-exist with fellow Indians, and make India a > >> progressive country. The contribution of Muslims to the progress of > >> India need not be repeated here. The bottom-line is: They cannot go > >> anywhere else – India is their home, and they have to struggle here > >> like everyone else. So, please don't meddle into our affairs. > >> > >> This plea is especially for those powerful institutions/organizations > >> in countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan who deliberately support > >> terrorism and violence against India and Hindus. You don't realize > >> that every time there is a terrorist attack in India, although a lot > >> of non-Muslims get killed or affected, but the ultimate loss is that > >> of Indian Muslims. They are the ones who are seen more and more as > >> culprits and a subject of hate and prejudice. It is our children (with > >> Muslim names) who are taunted in Indian schools as "Pakistanis", and > >> it is we who cannot rent a house in a mainstream colony because of our > >> Muslim tag, all because of you. So, our Islamic brothers, YOU ARE NOT > >> HELPING US come out of our suffering at all. You are actually pushing > >> us further into a furnace by carrying out the terrorist attacks on > >> "Hindus". We request and plead you to have mercy on this beautiful > >> country and the world, and stop your senseless jihad. If you are told > >> that you will to go to heaven (and get houris) when you die for the > >> cause of Islam, you are highly mistaken and misled. You will surely > >> burn in hell for harming innocent people. This world is not only for > >> Muslims – it is for everyone; whatever religion or culture they may > >> follow. So, live and let live. > >> > >> (2) The above message was meant for the "terrorists" infiltrating from > >> outside India and their supporters/sympathizers. And now for the > >> "home-grown" breed of terrorists. After the horrific 9/11 attacks, it > >> was reported by many that among the Muslim terrorists operating all > >> over the world, there are actually no Indian Muslims involved. > >> (Although Indian media and intelligence department had been claiming > >> since many years that Muslim madrasas are the breeding grounds of > >> terrorism, but not a single Indian madrasa has so far been found to be > >> involved in such activity). Every one was happy and proud about the > >> news of India Muslims' non-involvement in terrorism. But suddenly, > >> after the 2002 Gujarat pogrom, it was reported that Muslims residing > >> in India are becoming terrorists too, and many of them highly > >> educated-ones (engineers, doctors, IT professionals, etc.). They use > >> new technology of Internet, cell-phones and deadly explosive material > >> supplied by their counterparts from across the border. > >> > >> Subsequently, hundreds of young boys from Muslim localities have been > >> arrested and tortured by the Indian police, some even killed in > >> encounters. But most of them so far have only been accused and almost > >> none ultimately convicted or punished for an act of terrorism, due to > >> a lack of substantial evidence against them. Most Muslims and some > >> human rights activists argue that those arrested or killed Muslim boys > >> have nothing to do with terrorist activities and have been framed > >> wrongly. After seeing the adverse role of the police in recent > >> incidents such as an encounter at Batla House (Delhi) in September > >> 2008 where 2 such accused (and a police inspector) were killed, the > >> Muslim community has lost all faith in the police and intelligence > >> agencies, fearing that due to their prejudice they could arrest and > >> kill any Muslim at will in their war against terror. Their > >> investigations are not transparent, their proofs are not convincing, > >> and their encounters with terrorists look stage-managed. > >> > >> However, such a reaction from Muslims is also considered by some as a > >> "denial mode", and it is suggested (especially by the mainstream > >> media) that Muslims need to come out of this mode and accept the > >> reality that home-bred terrorists do exist in the community, > >> especially since those who carried out the recent blasts (in 2008) did > >> claim that they are "home-bred" terrorists. If the internal Muslims > >> are truly involved in such activities, and if we are serious about > >> nabbing and punishing them, it would be good for the peace-loving > >> Muslims themselves to come forward and make a strategy to help > >> eradicate this menace, rather than to leave it only to the > >> state-forces. Here is some advices worth considering: > >> > >> It is accepted by the media and the police that all Muslims are not > >> terrorists, but some Muslims do resort to extremism and violence, and > >> that the peace-loving intelligentsia among the Muslim community should > >> take responsibility to root out the bad elements. This is often > >> repeated on every news channel and newspaper after every attack: > >> Secular and elite Muslims need to sift out the extremist elements in > >> their community. Well, no right thinking Muslim can deny this > >> responsibility and there are many who are eagerly ready to play that > >> role. But terrorism or extremist elements of the society cannot be > >> eradicated by only their efforts, if the govt. and the police > >> themselves have been unable to do so. They need the same logistical > >> support and resources to bring out any change in the community, which > >> the authorities use. In fact, a more practical idea today would be an > >> active coordination between the intelligence agencies, the police, the > >> judiciary and the responsible people in the Muslim community. But for > >> that to happen, the first and foremost requirement is for the > >> officials to TRUST THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY. It is a widely known fact > >> that the number and ratio of Muslims in Indian security forces, > >> police, intelligence, ministries and other important institutions is > >> very abysmal – at least not proportionate to their population. > >> Moreover, in the war against the terror, the authorities never talk to > >> the responsible people from the community leave aside involving them > >> actively. > >> > >> A specific recent case that can serve as an example: > >> > >> Take the case of the recent police-terrorist encounter at Jamia Nagar, > >> Delhi. The Delhi Police (and its Special Cell) not only did not inform > >> any of the local citizens of the area before or during the operation > >> (while they gave prior information to the media), but also made no > >> effort to communicate to the frightened local residents afterwards > >> (even during their further arrests of youngsters from the locality), > >> while the theories of the encounter being fake were spreading in the > >> locality. Their encounter of 19th September 2008 was like a very > >> specialized surgical operation done on the body without giving it > >> anesthesia or stitching it back, or allowing it to heal. This simply > >> shows that they either look at the entire community with prejudice and > >> suspicion (of harbouring the terror within), or they are not genuinely > >> interested in uprooting the nuisance of terror, and only want to > >> continue showing to the world that Muslim terrorists exist. They > >> further infuriated many Muslims the next day by showcasing the three > >> arrested suspects to the media by covering their faces/heads in the > >> stereotypical pink Arab scarves, which is a clichéd symbol of orthodox > >> Muslims or Palestinian extremists. > >> > >> If the authorities start trusting the community and seriously involve > >> them in uprooting the internal terrorism, it may show better results > >> than secret raids and encounters. Some residents of Batla House > >> gathered outside the encounter site the next day said "even if there > >> were terrorists holed up in the flat, with weapons, there was a way to > >> peacefully flush them out. After all they were not holding any > >> hostages. The police knew their location in advance. It could have > >> taken some neighbours into confidence, emptied the entire > >> neighbourhood, blocked all exit paths from the flat, and then waited > >> (even if for days) until the boys got fed up or famished, and > >> surrendered. There were lots of possibilities, if there was a will." > >> What is required today is a confidence building between the police and > >> the people, and some kind citizen's initiatives or neighbourhood-watch > >> schemes, (which already exist in some of the posh areas of Indian > >> towns). > >> > >> The smaller towns (such as Azamgarh) or ghettoized localities (such as > >> Batla House) in the cities, where such initiatives are required more, > >> are unfortunately left to rot by our civic authorities. They could be > >> the breeding grounds of a lot of anti-social elements, but the > >> authorities are equally responsible for their sorry state. Thus, a > >> long-term solution to the mushrooming of internal terror is possible > >> only with a multi-pronged approach, the first requirement of which is > >> to eradicate the corruption and communal bias in the police > >> department, and make them people-friendly. They need to involve senior > >> and serious citizens of a locality to nab the likely culprits of > >> terror in their area. But this effort should not mean vigilance and > >> security measures so strict that they affect the privacy and trust > >> between people in a locality. > >> ==== > >> > >> Please join our facebook group to participate in this campaign: > >> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=124494910211 > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From tapasrayx at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 19:57:52 2009 From: tapasrayx at gmail.com (Tapas Ray) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 09:27:52 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] What is the harm in celebrating 'Valentine day' ? In-Reply-To: <5c5369880902110142s2cb9d4e8t5215dbfe257e32ea@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c5369880902110142s2cb9d4e8t5215dbfe257e32ea@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4992E068.80705@gmail.com> Sanjay, Thank you for the forward. I now realize how uneducated I have always been. My eyes have been opened, and I will henceforth use them to watch out for those annual, (male) enhanced "descents" of the various forms of God ... or would "ascent" be more appropriate for such enhancements? And I also mark that Prajapati comes in large measures (how large are those measures?) on Gudipadva. I would love to know his secret. Tapas Sanjay Kak wrote: > Since this List periodically carries postings that can be loosely > called "educational", I take the liberty of forwarding something that > came in the mail today. > The usual disclaimers about cross-posting etc apply. > Best > Sanjay > > Example 1: The frequencies of Prajapati come to the Earth in larger > measures on the day of Gudipadva. However instead of celebrating that > day as the 'New Year' day, the Government celebrates 1st January as > the New Year's day, which is not based on any Principle. > > Example 2: Instead of calculating time based on the Bhartiya Culture > ('Shalivahan Shaka') the Government uses the Christian Era (A.D), > which has no relevance to any particular time or zone. > > Example 3: The Guru Principle decends on Earth in large measures on > the day of Gurupournima. In all fairness that day should be celebrated > as 'Teachers Day'. However it is celebrated on the birth anniversary > of Ex-President Dr.Radhakrishnan. > > In the Ishwariya Rajya (Divine Kingdom) we are going to change all > such things which are not related to Hindu Religion and Culture in > anyway. > > To know more visit..... > http://www.hindujagruti.org/activities/campaigns/religious/valentine-day/ > > Forward this message to your near and dear ones for awareness.......... > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Feb 11 20:00:20 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 14:30:20 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] From the newspaper. In-Reply-To: <44EDBD72-06E8-4E71-8A39-D2008C145024@sarai.net> References: <44EDBD72-06E8-4E71-8A39-D2008C145024@sarai.net> Message-ID: <65be9bf40902110630q3cfd1014lf3e085d903087c6d@mail.gmail.com> Dear Jeebesh Thank you for sharing your 'now and then' analysis regarding the rather intricate equation of work, remuneration, circulation of money and role of state. I find your analysis odd. Don't you feel that if we look labor as a macro concept, then for the overwhelming majority of workers the world over, what you term as 'now' was a part of their working lives for ever. Don't you feel that the bulk of producers of this world have worked, are working and will work in the informal sector, where precarity is the name of the game, rather than an unexpected condition, as you suggest it out to be, from a survey of newspaper reports of course? Do you see any 'change' for the worse in variables list above if we look at the current crisis from the view of a dehari mazdoor? I also do not know how axiomatic, these so called 'axioms' are? This is also a time where a lot of neo-commie bull is being peddled on various online newspapers. It appears that a mad rush for grabbing the dominant idea has begun again. For instance take the sudden increase in 'interest' in 'marxist' ideas. I do not know whether you have come across this 'quote' by Marx- 'Owners of capital will stimulate the working class to buy more and more of expensive goods, houses and technology, pushing them to take more and more expensive credits, until their debt becomes unbearable. The unpaid debt will lead to bankruptcy of banks, which will have to be nationalised, and the State will have to take the road which will eventually lead to communism'. *Karl Marx, Das Kapital, 1867* This is utter crap of course, but still I agree that newspapers have become fun these days, not to suggest they weren't earlier. Regards Taha On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Jeebesh wrote: > Reading the newspaper from various parts of the world, this can be > gleaned over. > > > AXIOMS: > > Go to Work and Produce and get your wages. > > Pay your taxes so that state can protect you and build infrastructure > and social welfare mechanisms. > > Buy goods, food, basic necessities, a house maybe, a few dvds etc. > > Invest some for your old age needs. > > BUT > > Now this equation has gone a bit wrong. > > Go to work but not sure the wages will come. The company may just > close. It may just keep shrinking. Some "bad" management are simply > swindling the companies of it's assets and wealth. Very bad! > > State urgently needs to pump in unprecedented money (in many trillion > dollar obviously) to keep afloat financial institutions, > manufacturing units, infrastructure constructions, manage social > conflicts, act self-righteous to assuage anger of dissolution, > encourage people to keep buying. From hard state, soft state, etc to > Busy State. > > Buy basic necessities and keep some for harder time ahead. > > Sidelines: Is our investments safe? Should we shift it.? How to ensure > it? Our old age is in danger. > > THEN > > State needs to spend more. It needs to draw more revenue. How does it > manage it? More taxation will be dangerous, less taxation will inject > growth. What to do? > > Manufacturing unit to get up, produce and need to sell. Fast. How? To > whom? > > Save your jobs, wages and savings? How? > > Newspapers are fun these days!! > > warmly > jeebesh > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From lawrence at altlawforum.org Wed Feb 11 20:12:05 2009 From: lawrence at altlawforum.org (Lawrence Liang) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 20:12:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] What is the harm in celebrating 'Valentine day' ? In-Reply-To: <4992E068.80705@gmail.com> References: <5c5369880902110142s2cb9d4e8t5215dbfe257e32ea@mail.gmail.com> <4992E068.80705@gmail.com> Message-ID: jokes apart, it is known to cause blindness....... 2009/2/11 Tapas Ray > Sanjay, > > Thank you for the forward. I now realize how uneducated I have always > been. My eyes have been opened, and I will henceforth use them to watch > out for those annual, (male) enhanced "descents" of the various forms of > God ... or would "ascent" be more appropriate for such enhancements? And > I also mark that Prajapati comes in large measures (how large are those > measures?) on Gudipadva. I would love to know his secret. > > Tapas > > > > Sanjay Kak wrote: > > Since this List periodically carries postings that can be loosely > > called "educational", I take the liberty of forwarding something that > > came in the mail today. > > The usual disclaimers about cross-posting etc apply. > > Best > > Sanjay > > > > > Example 1: The frequencies of Prajapati come to the Earth in larger > > measures on the day of Gudipadva. However instead of celebrating that > > day as the 'New Year' day, the Government celebrates 1st January as > > the New Year's day, which is not based on any Principle. > > > > Example 2: Instead of calculating time based on the Bhartiya Culture > > ('Shalivahan Shaka') the Government uses the Christian Era (A.D), > > which has no relevance to any particular time or zone. > > > > Example 3: The Guru Principle decends on Earth in large measures on > > the day of Gurupournima. In all fairness that day should be celebrated > > as 'Teachers Day'. However it is celebrated on the birth anniversary > > of Ex-President Dr.Radhakrishnan. > > > > In the Ishwariya Rajya (Divine Kingdom) we are going to change all > > such things which are not related to Hindu Religion and Culture in > > anyway. > > > > To know more visit..... > > > http://www.hindujagruti.org/activities/campaigns/religious/valentine-day/ > > > > Forward this message to your near and dear ones for awareness.......... > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From jeebesh at sarai.net Thu Feb 12 09:48:11 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (jeebesh at sarai.net) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 09:48:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] From the newspaper. In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40902110630q3cfd1014lf3e085d903087c6d@mail.gmail.com> References: <44EDBD72-06E8-4E71-8A39-D2008C145024@sarai.net> <65be9bf40902110630q3cfd1014lf3e085d903087c6d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <24748b497ee4978cfcf7c8b53f3644c8@sarai.net> dear Taha, I hope you are not proposing a "steady state" precariousness beyond all events. It maybe worthwhile to keep a sense of fluctuation within the precarious condition that you refer to. Here is a text (in Hind) of a dialogue between a young woman (Babli) with an older woman (Hasina) who gets odd jobs around getting documents made for various people. It gives a nuanced idea of what this 'sensing fluctuations' in daily life of people in fairly difficult circumstances of material life could be. http://nangla-maachi.freeflux.net/blog/archive/2008/12/16/hasinaji-babli.html#post_content_extended The quote by Marx that is circulating is nothing new. It is to Marx "the negative negation of capital" and could bring in socialism. This is a big fallacy (proved by many cases) and remains a way of justifying various state based thinking. Marx through his writing on Paris Commune himself argued away from this axis of thinking. But that is a different debate. warmly Jeebesh On 8:00 pm 02/11/09 Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: > > Dear Jeebesh > > Thank you for sharing your 'now and then' analysis regarding > the rather intricate equation of work, remuneration, circulation of > money and role of state. > > I find your analysis odd. > > Don't you feel that if we look labor as a macro concept, then for > the overwhelming majority of workers the world over, what you term as > 'now' was a part of their working lives for ever. Don't you > feel that the bulk of producers of this world have worked, are working > and will work in the informal sector, where precarity is the name of > the game, rather than an unexpected condition, as you suggest it out to > be, from a survey of newspaper reports of course? Do you see any > 'change' for the worse in variables list above if we look at > the current crisis from the view of a dehari mazdoor? I also do not > know how axiomatic, these so called 'axioms' are? > > This is also a time where a lot of neo-commie bull is being peddled > on various online newspapers. It appears that a mad rush for grabbing > the dominant idea has begun again. > > For instance take the sudden increase in 'interest' in > 'marxist' ideas. I do not know whether you have come across > this 'quote' by Marx- 'Owners of capital will stimulate > the working class to buy more and more of expensive goods, houses and > technology, pushing them to take more and more expensive credits, until > their debt becomes unbearable. The unpaid debt will lead to bankruptcy > of banks, which will have to be nationalised, and the State will have > to take the road which will eventually lead to communism'.Karl > Marx, Das Kapital, 1867 > > This is utter crap of course, but still I agree that newspapers have > become fun these days, not to suggest they weren't earlier. > > Regards > > Taha > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Jeebesh wrote: > Reading the newspaper from various parts of the world, this can be > gleaned over. > > > AXIOMS: > > Go to Work and Produce and get your wages. > > Pay your taxes so that state can protect you and build infrastructure > and social welfare mechanisms. > > Buy goods, food, basic necessities, a house maybe, a few dvds etc. > > Invest some for your old age needs. > > BUT > > Now this equation has gone a bit wrong. > > Go to work but not sure the wages will come. The company may just > close. It may just keep shrinking. Some "bad" management > are simply swindling the companies of it's assets and wealth. > Very bad! > > State urgently needs to pump in unprecedented money (in many trillion > dollar obviously) to keep afloat financial institutions, > manufacturing units, infrastructure constructions, manage social > conflicts, act self-righteous to assuage anger of dissolution, > encourage people to keep buying. From hard state, soft state, etc to > Busy State. > > Buy basic necessities and keep some for harder time ahead. > > Sidelines: Is our investments safe? Should we shift it.? How to ensure > it? Our old age is in danger. > > THEN > > State needs to spend more. It needs to draw more revenue. How does it > manage it? More taxation will be dangerous, less taxation will inject > growth. What to do? > > Manufacturing unit to get up, produce and need to sell. Fast. How? To > whom? > > Save your jobs, wages and savings? How? > > Newspapers are fun these days!! > > warmly > jeebesh > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.ne > t/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From iram at sarai.net Mon Feb 9 12:47:15 2009 From: iram at sarai.net (Iram Ghufran) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 12:47:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Call: Typos in the Writing on the Wall/ Edition #2 Message-ID: <498FD87B.70205@sarai.net> Dear all After a diverse and enthusiastic response to Edition #1 of "Typos in the Writing on the Wall", we at the Sarai Media Lab, are happy to announce an open call for submissions to EDITION #2! "Typos in the Writing on the Wall" is an online platform for experimenting and freestyling with media forms. Selections of works and submissions to Typos Editions # 1 & 2 , as well as subsequent editions, will be curated for exhibitions, local and travelling events, open mics and spontaneous collaborations. This time, send us your TYPOS by March 5th, 2009! To read the Call for Submissions, see - http://www.sarai.net/practices/media-forms/typos-in-the-writing-on-the-wall-1/call And send us your responses to the Sarai address. Sarai Media Lab Sarai CSDS 29 Rajpur Road Delhi 110054 India For submission guidelines, see - http://www.sarai.net/practices/media-forms/typos-in-the-writing-on-the-wall-1/submission-guidelines For any further queries write to typos [at] sarai.net. Again, the last date for submissions to Edition #2 for "Typos in the Writing on the Wall" is March 5th 2009. Keep checking this space for new and exciting work! Looking forward Iram (for typos forum) SELECTED WORKS Blobsquatch: Carl Diehl FW: [Fwd: Suite de Notre Conversation]: Dalida Maria Benfield and Isa Massu Songs of Innocence: Daniel Lercher Claudia and Paul 5:05, 5:06, 5:07, 5:08 p.m: Henry Gwiazda Hackney Girl: Ian Flitman Jane: Ian Flitman Kalanadi: Joppan G Terrazzo: Laurel Beckman Cambridge 1:15AM - New York City 5:39 AM: Lauren McCarthy Emigrant: Osvaldo Cibilis Muscular Movements: Osvaldo Cibilis White’s Mill Pond, SC: Scott F Hall Basi Khabar: Subuhi Jiwani Slow Pictures: Theo Firmo It's a human relations thing: Alana Hunt A Picture of Two- wheelers in Delhi: Alana Hunt You can view the works for Edition #1 here. See - http://www.sarai.net/practices/media-forms/typos-in-the-writing-on-the-wall-1/featuring-artists Featured works will be shown in a curated Open Mic at Sarai at the end of three Editions. ///- - - ///- - - ///- - - ///- - - ///- - -///- - - _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Feb 11 07:54:41 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 02:24:41 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath In-Reply-To: <00a001c98a84$6fa4fe90$0201a8c0@limo> References: <006701c98369$3b8cae90$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40901310944i5dfd0c1cpb9da416014037dab@mail.gmail.com> <005901c985c0$1e425b10$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40902030231p62cc4e76t2610d577e6ab39a@mail.gmail.com> <000901c985ef$0ff34950$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40902030348k5f16002by866cd3ba21a41081@mail.gmail.com> <002401c9868b$eda724a0$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40902050342m6e45e30cs16694b75cdd28a29@mail.gmail.com> <00a001c98a84$6fa4fe90$0201a8c0@limo> Message-ID: <65be9bf40902101824g1116f7eg4846cb8ffe3948d6@mail.gmail.com> Dear Bipin Why do you think that Modi 'has to fight' at all? Why do you think amongst BJP leaders, people who are perceived as honest, hard working, exceptionally dedicated, efficient and incorruptible, have to often suffer loss of face and humiliation from these bunch of biased NGO's and pseudo-secularist press. We have to remember that Modi is not alone here, with Advani as a worthy party elder, they form a formidable duo. Why is it that people who are engaged in the business of rhetoric and mass persuasion vilify these gifted organizers? From a particular perspective this Modi/Advani 'down-down' drive is completely irrational isn't. I think, these people from the English language press particularly must hang their head in shame. They are not doing a honest, decent job. They must propagate all the good qualities of Modi. After all, it seems that we have a tradition in India, that for any politician to be considered as a great modern ruler they must have blood on thier hands. Be it a Abdullah or a Nehru, or a Rajiv or a Modi or a Advani or a Mahanta or a Patnayak or a Thackery etc etc. It seems though that apart from Nehru who did not discriminate on the basis of religion while letting blood and hence was secular in a way, all other gentlemen were driven cynical objective to let only one kind of blood to grab power. I would like to take a diversion at this point and I wish to pose a question to Inder Salim- what does he think about the idea of universal blood red as a sort of a metaphorical unifier which makes us all Indians. In a way this colour has flowed from Kashmir to Kanyakumari and from Gujarat to Arunachal. In a way we are all victims here. Bipin after reading your mail I had the most profound experience. There was so much of clarity and rationality in your words that I almost felt empathy for the loneliness of Modi, even with so many people, this man seems so alone, so lost in his own world, his dreams of a Ram Rajya, a Sangh Rajya, a Rajya where there is no one to discriminate, where Hindustan can become truly a Hindu-sthan, where only Hindus live, where only Hindi is spoken. This is such a fantastic idea. A grand idea. But please tell me Bipin do you honestly and sincerely believe that Modi will be able to rise above the Asmita of 5 crore Gujaratis, of which he could not feed, FEED, 3 crore of them, forget about his empty rhetoric about Asmita and disgusting notions about cleansing Bharat from all its impurities, this man, howsoever, honest, hard working, exceptionally dedicated, efficient, incorruptible he may be, he was not able to put roti in the mouths of half of the population he was supposed to govern. There is famous Bengali saying, give me rice or else I will eat up your map. For moment if we project Modi to be in charge of a 100 crore Indians, what do we have? 50 crore people suffering from mal nutrition, low body mass index and anemia? Warm regards Taha On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 7:02 AM, bipin wrote: > Dear Taha, > > Sorry for the late reply. > > > First of all, such gimmick created by party workers or chamchas. Of course > I personally hate such chamchagiris. Please note that Modi has to fight > against malicious propaganda made against him by Domestic and International > English media, NGO's (NGO activities are totally biased and they act with > the guidance of their source of funds only) and all pseudo-secularist > parties. While, in the case of CM of MP, there is no such factor to fight. > He just has to put his work honestly. > > > > So naturally, Modi has to put some extra effort to win and put the fact > before public about this malicious propaganda by tolerating such gimmick to > be more popular. > > > > thanks > > Bipin > > > From monicabhasin at hotmail.com Tue Feb 10 11:57:24 2009 From: monicabhasin at hotmail.com (Monica Bhasin) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 06:27:24 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Call for digital media - IN A PLANET OF OUR OWN - A VISION OF SUSTAINABILITY Message-ID: PLEASE POST WIDELY * APOLOGIES FOR CROSS POSTING CALL FOR DIGITAL MEDIA In a Planet of Our Own A vision of sustainability from across six continents 15-22 March 2009 AEC World Expo 2009, Bombay Exhibition Centre, NSE Complex, Mumbai, India IIT, Mumbai, India and other venues. This international event is aimed at creating awareness on sustainability and simultaneously offers a platform for interaction for professionals and activists from various fields and the general public. The events are centered around the interests of students, educationists and practicing professional designers, engaged in any manner with a broad vision of sustainability and aims to address the need to reach a wider audience and create greater awareness. The event has been designed to be lively, interactive and thought provoking and will provide great opportunity to interact with stalwarts in the field of sustainable development and related practices, connect with thought leaders and listen to visions by outstanding speakers. The event comprises many exhibition opportunities and provides a wide platform for sustainability-related work done by individuals and institutions over the years. We are organizing public installations along with film/video screenings for the same. The films will be used for screenings within the exhibition and as part of a larger compilation to be exhibited in public spaces across Mumbai. We expect to exhibit work that deals with a wide variety of themes within a broad ambit of sustainability, especially culturally specific endeavours, and will appreciate work that is visually stimulating and engaging in its depiction. If you have relevant work in this area, we would like to include it after a preliminary viewing. There is no restriction and the work could span any visual representation from prints to photographs, film/video/animation or work in any other digital media. PLEASE FORWARD US YOUR WORK AS A CD/DVD IN ANY VIEWABLE FORMAT KEEPING IN MIND THE FACT THAT IT MUST BE SUITABLE FOR PROJECTION/PUBLICATION, HENCE NEEDS TO BE A GOOD QUALITY PRINT (AVI/MPEG/DVD FOR VIDEO AND IMAGES IN 300 DPI JPEG OR TIFF). For film/video submission, please include – - 5(or more) high-resolution images from your film - Brief write-up of less than 150 words about your work/ideas - Short biography and photograph of yourself This information will be used for inclusion in the exhibition and related publicity material with your permission. PLEASE SEND US YOUR WORK BEFORE 28TH FEBRUARY 2009. You could send us your work at the following address: Exhibition - In a Planet of Our Own c/o Vaibhav Singh Industrial Design Centre (IDC) Indian Institute of Technology (IIT) Powai, Mumbai 400076 For an overview of the event please visit http://www.inaplanetofourown.net For all queries please email us at sustainability.iit at gmail.com Regards, Monica Bhasin _________________________________________________________________ Plug in to the MSN Tech channel for a full update on the latest gizmos that made an impact. http://computing.in.msn.com/ -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From monica at sarai.net Tue Feb 10 13:08:02 2009 From: monica at sarai.net (Monica Narula) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 13:08:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Raipur Satyagraha for the Release of Dr. Binayak Sen Message-ID: It is now 21 months since Dr Binayak Sen, the well-known public health and human rights activist was imprisoned by the Chhattisgarh government on false charges of abetting activities of an outlawed organisation. All of us, individuals and organisations, who have been concerned, protested and struggled for Dr Binayak Sen ‘s release all these months have decided to launch a satyagraha/civil disobedience movement in Raipur to prevail upon the Government to reverse its illegitimate action. Satyagraha will be launched in the coming weeks and continued every Monday thereon at the jail in Raipur where Dr Binayak Sen is incarcerated. The one-point demand of the satyagraha is the release of Dr Binayak Sen. Let us all, who stand for freedom , unite to protest in the spirit of satayagraha and respecting the norms of civil disobedience. We call upon civil society groups, human and civil rights organisations, trade unions, lawyers, medical professionals and womens' groups, organisations and individuals from across the political spectrum to send contingents of civil resisters to Raipur to take part in the Raipur Satyagraha for the Release of Dr. Binayak Sen. Resist the use of bail as punitive measure to intimidate human rights defenders During the entire period which he has been kept in Raipur Jail, Dr Binayak Sen’s pleas for bail have been refused by judicial institutions at all levels in the country. While the Raipur Sessions court rejected his bail application in July 2007, the Chhattisgarh High Court denied bail twice, first in July 2007 and again in December 2008. On an earlier occasion, the Supreme Court of India also refused to consider the bail petition, without citing any specific reason, ironically on Human Rights Day, 2007. The best traditions of justice and precedents set by Indian courts themselves demand that ‘bail should be the rule and jail the exception’. Bail is normally denied only to those accused who are likely to run away, repeat the crime or tamper with evidence. None of these conditions apply in the case of Dr Binayak Sen. He was arrested when he voluntarily went to the police on 14 May 2007 after learning they were looking for him. Bail cannot be used as a punitive measure; rather, it is an inherent civil right in democracy and an essential part of the Indian criminal justice system. No evidence to back the charges against Dr Binayak Sen Though Dr Binayak Sen has been arrested on grave charges under the draconian Chhattisgarh State Public Security Act, none of the 38 witnesses produced in his trial so far at a sessions court in Raipur have corroborated any of these charges. In December 2008, 18 months after his arrest, the State called in 47 extra witnesses to testify. The Chhattisgarh government and its police have also not been able to provide any proof of his involvement in illegal activities. Dr Binayak Sen was arrested by the Chhattisgarh police for allegedly passing on letters from Narayan Sanyal , a senior member of the Communist Party of India (Maoist) in Raipur jail to Piyush Guha, a Raipur businessman accused of assisting the Maoists. The fact of the matter is that Dr. Binayak Sen met Mr. Sanyal in prison with permission from jail authorities as he was providing medical care to Mr. Sanyal. There are records to prove this. In the days and months following his incarceration, Dr Binayak Sen has received tremendous support from the people of India, and outside. 22 Nobel Laureates signed a letter in support of Dr Binayak Sen. Both international and national media, television and print, through news stories and editorials, has consistently pointed to the unjustified nature of Dr Binayak Sen’s imprisonment. Moreover, among the wider public too, there is a palpable sense of indignation, dissatisfaction and frustration with the way the Indian legal system and executive has responded to Dr Binayak Sen’s case. All these factors bring into focus the moral dimension of illegitimacy of Dr Binayak Sen’s continued detention. We believe that in such a situation, where, Dr Binayak Sen has repeatedly been denied the most fundamental of legal rights, it is our moral responsibility as citizens to protest his arrest and call for his release. Please circulate this appeal widely. Please contact the satyagraha volunteers in New Delhi at releasebinayak at gmail.com to indicate your or your organisation’s intent to participate in the satyagraha. In solidarity, Kamayani _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From turbulence at turbulence.org Mon Feb 9 21:47:52 2009 From: turbulence at turbulence.org (Turbulence) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 11:17:52 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Turbulence Spotlight: "Piano Etudes" by Jason Freeman, et al Message-ID: <036a01c98ad1$f6f6fef0$e4e4fcd0$@org> February 9, 2009 Turbulence Spotlight: "Piano Etudes" by Jason Freeman, with Akito Van Troyer and Jenny Lin http://turbulence.org/spotlight/pianoetudes/ [Needs Flash Player] Inspired by the tradition of open-form musical scores, "Piano Etudes" is a set of four short works, each of which is notated as a collection of short musical fragments with links to connect them. In performance, the pianist must use those links to jump from fragment to fragment, creating her own unique version of the composition. The pianist, though, should not have all the fun. So an accompanying web site enables anyone to create their own version of each etude, download it as an audio file or a printable score, and share it with others. In concert, pianists may make up their own version of each etude, or they may select a version created by a web visitor. "Piano Etudes" was supported, in part, with a Special Award from the Yvar Mikhashoff Pianist/Composer Commissioning Project. The American Composers Forum’s Encore Program provided additional support for several live performances of the piece. Additional thanks to New Radio and Performing Arts, Inc. and its Turbulence web site for hosting the project online. BIOGRAPHIES JASON FREEMAN's works break down conventional barriers between composers, performers, and listeners, using cutting-edge technology and unconventional notation to turn audiences and musicians into compositional collaborators. His music has been performed by the American Composers Orchestra, Speculum Musicae, the So Percussion Group, the Rova Saxophone Quartet, the Nieuw Ensemble, Le Nouvel Ensemble Moderne, and Evan Ziporyn; and his works have been featured at the Lincoln Center Festival, the Boston CyberArt Festival, 01SJ, and the Transmediale Festival and featured in the New York Times and on National Public Radio. N.A.G. (Network Auralization for Gnutella) (2003), a commission from Turbulence, was described by Billboard as “…an example of the web’s mind-expanding possibilities.” Freeman received his B.A. in music from Yale University and his M.A. and D.M.A. in composition from Columbia University. He is currently an assistant professor in the music department at Georgia Tech in Atlanta. AKITO VAN TROYER is a masters student in music technology at Georgia Tech, where his research interests include interactive music systems, music information retrieval, cybernetics, ethnomusicology, error structures in digital systems, and computer programmed music. He is currently developing GrainBox, an intuitive, web-based granular synthesis application to be launched this spring. JENNY LIN is one of the most respected young pianists today, admired for her adventurous programming and charismatic stage presence. Her ability to combine classical and contemporary literature has brought her to the attention of international critics and audiences. She has been acclaimed for her "remarkable technical command" and "a gift for melodic flow" by The New York Times. Her concerts have taken her to Carnegie Recital Hall, Miller Theatre, Museum of Modern Art, Whitney Museum, and Morgan Library, among others. Jenny's extensive discography includes critically acclaimed recordings on Koch International Classics, Hänssler Classic, BIS Records, Sunrise Records, and Poem Culture Records. Born in Taiwan and raised in Austria, Jenny studied with Noel Flores at the Hochschule für Musik in Vienna, with Julian Martin at the Peabody Conservatory (Artist Diploma) in Baltimore, and with Dominique Weber in Geneva. She holds a bachelor's degree in German Literature from The Johns Hopkins University and currently resides in New York City, where she also serves on the faculty of the 92nd Street Y. Jo-Anne Green, Co-Director New Radio and Performing Arts, Inc.: http://new-radio.org New York: 917.548.7780 • Boston: 617.522.3856 Turbulence: http://turbulence.org Networked_Performance Blog: http://turbulence.org/blog Networked_Music_Review: http://turbulence.org/networked_music_review Upgrade! Boston: http://turbulence.org/upgrade New American Radio: http://somewhere.org _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Feb 12 10:23:56 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 10:23:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Pink Condom Campaign Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902112053v14c70f81o8a17306ecbcbb461@mail.gmail.com> Just swa this blog , you may have a look too http://www.thepinkcondomcampaign.blogspot.com/ From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Feb 12 15:41:30 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 15:41:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Posted in Pakistani Newspaper-ALERT Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902120211t4ad148faq539409a1ac98e4ab@mail.gmail.com> Mail from a Friend ----- Forwarded Message ---- *From:* *Sent:* Thursday, 12 February, 2009 5:00:11 PM *Subject:* Posted in Pakistani Newspaper Posted in Pakistani newspaper where they r showing entire India as Pakistani country (And Maharashtra as MUSLIMABAD) by 2012 & 2020 . these are the links map in 2012 : PAKISTAN MAP IN 2012 http://express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwindow.aspx?newsID=1100533603&Issue=NP_LHE&Date=20081203 and then in 2020 : Pakistan map in 2020 http://express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwindow.aspx?newsID=1100533604&Issue=NP_LHE&Date=20081203 Other ref: http://bengalgenocide.com/mughalistan.php Recently there was an incident of Pakistani flag being hoisted in Assam.. http://videos.indiatimes.com//videoshow/3563071.cms? Dec 2008 there was a Pakistani flag hoisted in Karnataka.. and in three places in Assam in Oct 2008.. http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=143736 From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 12 16:13:14 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 02:43:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Johann Hari: Why should I respect these oppressive religions? (Muslims protest) Message-ID: <689329.97162.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Ravindra Kumar (Editor)and Anand Sinha (Publisher) of The Statesman-Kolkata were briefly arrested and released on bail for publishing on 5th Feb '09 the article by Johann Hari "Why should I respect these oppressive religions?" http://in.reuters.com/article/topNews/idINIndia-37979220090212 They were charged with "deliberate act with malicious intent to outrage religious feelings". Islamic groups had protested in front of Statesman House and a police complaint was lodged against The Statesman by a Muslim. The article by Johann Hari originally published by The Independent (UK) on 28th Jan '09 is reproduced below. EXTRACT: QUOTE :      All people deserve respect, but not all ideas do. I don't respect the idea that a man was born of a virgin, walked on water and rose from the dead. I don't respect the idea that we should follow a "Prophet" who at the age of 53 had sex with a nine-year old girl, and ordered the murder of whole villages of Jews because they wouldn't follow him.   I don't respect the idea that the West Bank was handed to Jews by God and the Palestinians should be bombed or bullied into surrendering it. I don't respect the idea that we may have lived before as goats, and could live again as woodlice. This is not because of "prejudice" or "ignorance", but because there is no evidence for these claims. They belong to the childhood of our species, and will in time look as preposterous as believing in Zeus or Thor or Baal.    UNQUOTE Kshmendra THE INDEPENDENT January 28, 2009 "Johann Hari: Why should I respect these oppressive religions?" (Whenever a religious belief is criticised, its adherents say they're victims of 'prejudice') The right to criticise religion is being slowly doused in acid. Across the world, the small, incremental gains made by secularism – giving us the space to doubt and question and make up our own minds – are being beaten back by belligerent demands that we "respect" religion. A historic marker has just been passed, showing how far we have been shoved. The UN rapporteur who is supposed to be the global guardian of free speech has had his job rewritten – to put him on the side of the religious censors.   The Universal Declaration of Human Rights stated 60 years ago that "a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief is the highest aspiration of the common people". It was a Magna Carta for mankind – and loathed by every human rights abuser on earth. Today, the Chinese dictatorship calls it "Western", Robert Mugabe calls it "colonialist", and Dick Cheney calls it "outdated". The countries of the world have chronically failed to meet it – but the document has been held up by the United Nations as the ultimate standard against which to check ourselves. Until now.   Starting in 1999, a coalition of Islamist tyrants, led by Saudi Arabia, demanded the rules be rewritten. The demand for everyone to be able to think and speak freely failed to "respect" the "unique sensitivities" of the religious, they decided – so they issued an alternative Islamic Declaration of Human Rights. It insisted that you can only speak within "the limits set by the shariah [law]. It is not permitted to spread falsehood or disseminate that which involves encouraging abomination or forsaking the Islamic community".   In other words, you can say anything you like, as long as it precisely what the reactionary mullahs tell you to say. The declaration makes it clear there is no equality for women, gays, non-Muslims, or apostates. It has been backed by the Vatican and a bevy of Christian fundamentalists.   Incredibly, they are succeeding. The UN's Rapporteur on Human Rights has always been tasked with exposing and shaming those who prevent free speech – including the religious. But the Pakistani delegate recently demanded that his job description be changed so he can seek out and condemn "abuses of free expression" including "defamation of religions and prophets". The council agreed – so the job has been turned on its head. Instead of condemning the people who wanted to murder Salman Rushdie, they will be condemning Salman Rushdie himself.   Anything which can be deemed "religious" is no longer allowed to be a subject of discussion at the UN – and almost everything is deemed religious. Roy Brown of the International Humanist and Ethical Union has tried to raise topics like the stoning of women accused of adultery or child marriage. The Egyptian delegate stood up to announce discussion of shariah "will not happen" and "Islam will not be crucified in this council" – and Brown was ordered to be silent. Of course, the first victims of locking down free speech about Islam with the imprimatur of the UN are ordinary Muslims.   Here is a random smattering of events that have taken place in the past week in countries that demanded this change. In Nigeria, divorced women are routinely thrown out of their homes and left destitute, unable to see their children, so a large group of them wanted to stage a protest – but the Shariah police declared it was "un-Islamic" and the marchers would be beaten and whipped. In Saudi Arabia, the country's most senior government-approved cleric said it was perfectly acceptable for old men to marry 10-year-old girls, and those who disagree should be silenced. In Egypt, a 27-year-old Muslim blogger Abdel Rahman was seized, jailed and tortured for arguing for a reformed Islam that does not enforce shariah.   To the people who demand respect for Muslim culture, I ask: which Muslim culture? Those women's, those children's, this blogger's – or their oppressors'?   As the secular campaigner Austin Darcy puts it: "The ultimate aim of this effort is not to protect the feelings of Muslims, but to protect illiberal Islamic states from charges of human rights abuse, and to silence the voices of internal dissidents calling for more secular government and freedom."   Those of us who passionately support the UN should be the most outraged by this.   Underpinning these "reforms" is a notion seeping even into democratic societies – that atheism and doubt are akin to racism. Today, whenever a religious belief is criticised, its adherents immediately claim they are the victims of "prejudice" – and their outrage is increasingly being backed by laws.   All people deserve respect, but not all ideas do. I don't respect the idea that a man was born of a virgin, walked on water and rose from the dead. I don't respect the idea that we should follow a "Prophet" who at the age of 53 had sex with a nine-year old girl, and ordered the murder of whole villages of Jews because they wouldn't follow him.   I don't respect the idea that the West Bank was handed to Jews by God and the Palestinians should be bombed or bullied into surrendering it. I don't respect the idea that we may have lived before as goats, and could live again as woodlice. This is not because of "prejudice" or "ignorance", but because there is no evidence for these claims. They belong to the childhood of our species, and will in time look as preposterous as believing in Zeus or Thor or Baal.   When you demand "respect", you are demanding we lie to you. I have too much real respect for you as a human being to engage in that charade.   But why are religious sensitivities so much more likely to provoke demands for censorship than, say, political sensitivities? The answer lies in the nature of faith. If my views are challenged I can, in the end, check them against reality. If you deregulate markets, will they collapse? If you increase carbon dioxide emissions, does the climate become destabilised? If my views are wrong, I can correct them; if they are right, I am soothed.   But when the religious are challenged, there is no evidence for them to consult. By definition, if you have faith, you are choosing to believe in the absence of evidence. Nobody has "faith" that fire hurts, or Australia exists; they know it, based on proof. But it is psychologically painful to be confronted with the fact that your core beliefs are based on thin air, or on the empty shells of revelation or contorted parodies of reason. It's easier to demand the source of the pesky doubt be silenced.   But a free society cannot be structured to soothe the hardcore faithful. It is based on a deal. You have an absolute right to voice your beliefs – but the price is that I too have a right to respond as I wish. Neither of us can set aside the rules and demand to be protected from offence.   Yet this idea – at the heart of the Universal Declaration – is being lost. To the right, it thwacks into apologists for religious censorship; to the left, it dissolves in multiculturalism. The hijacking of the UN Special Rapporteur by religious fanatics should jolt us into rescuing the simple, battered idea disintegrating in the middle: the equal, indivisible human right to speak freely.   An excellent blog that keeps you up to dates on secularist issues is Butterflies and Wheels, which you can read here [http://www.butterfliesandwheels.com/notes.php].   If you want to get involved in fighting for secularism, join the National Secular Society here. [http://www.secularism.org.uk/join.html]   j.hari at independent.co.uk [http://mailto:j.hari at independent.co.uk]   http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-why-should-i-respect-these-oppressive-religions-1517789.html From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 12 17:29:21 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 03:59:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India References: <341380d00902102206n6658ce1av6d91b914e76cacd2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <426636.22503.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Anupam Would you please clarify who exactly is the "YOU" and the "YOUR" in your words : "Yes, but you prefer mossad and FBI coming over as your security agencies are not adequately equipped to investigate any case." Thanks Kshmendra ________________________________ From: anupam chakravartty To: sarai list Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 10:06:23 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India dear aman, shanti, peace and other such things, i would have supported this appeal had it not used these words: "Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world." why do indian muslims always have to give a certificate that they are clean? why? what is the difference between al-qaeda and you? both of you judging the plight of the identities ignoring the fact that conflicts are directed against weaker sections. and then you go on to say: The claim that "Indian Muslims are persecuted by Hindus, thus world's Muslims need to save them". No, Thank you. We don't need the outside saviors. Yes, but you prefer mossad and FBI coming over as your security agencies are not adequately equipped to investigate any case. Dont you? with best wishes, anupam On 2/11/09, Aman Shanti wrote: > > Dear friends > Please see this news item, and also our appeal below. Kindly support > our appeal by sending the message across to many friends so that a > better sense prevails in this world: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/PoliticsNation/Al_Qaeda_threatens_to_attack_India_for_the_first_time/articleshow/4109243.cms > ------ > > Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its > allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world. > Islam does not approve the killing of innocent people. Peace-loving > Muslims must join hands to convince these extremist elements to desist > from their path of terror. Here is an appeal (which is also available > on facebook) that needs your support: > > Indian Muslims Against Terrorism > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=124494910211 > > Why only Indian Muslims – everyone should be against terrorism. Yes, > true - but this group has a certain mandate that related mostly to > Indian Muslims (although all others are welcome to join and > participate in this forum). We wish to focus on a few specific points > that are important to address the issue of regional terrorism. There > are two basic claims (made by some), which we want to address here: > > 1. The claim that "Indian Muslims are persecuted by Hindus, thus > world's Muslims need to save them". No, Thank you. We don't need the > outside saviors. > > 2. The claim that "now there are home-bred Muslim terrorists in India > that need to be nabbed." Ok, if this is true, then please involve > sincere and peace-loving Indian Muslims in the search for such > extremist elements in India's Muslim localities, instead of randomly > arresting and killing them in encounters. > > The above two points are detailed here: > > (1) There is an assumption or discourse coming out of some Muslim > countries (such as Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia and others) > that "Muslims in India are being victimized and tortured by the Hindus > (for example in Gujarat, Kashmir, Ayodhya etc.), and since they are in > great danger and helpless in the hands of Hindu extremists, it is the > duty of Muslims all over the world to go and save them, and revenge > their killings and persecution, by terrorizing the Hindus and damaging > the economic might of India." It has been reported that such discourse > is part of the training given to the terrorists who allegedly carry > out attacks in India. While we don't know for sure if the "terrorists" > are given such propaganda, but we assume that many Muslims outside > India may certainly have such an impression about India, as one can > see in some of the media in the Muslim world. > > We agree that Muslims in India have been subjected to a lot of > violence, torture, prejudice and injustice at various times, probably > in the same way as other minorities like dalits (low-caste Hindus), > tribals, and women etc. have been treated. But we wish to convey to > the "Islamic world" that WE DO NOT NEED THE HELP OF SAVIOURS FROM > OUTSIDE India to fight our struggles. (By struggle, we don't mean > violent revenge for the injustice, but a simple struggle for survival, > and recourse to the law, which luckily is not hopeless in India). > Muslims have been living in India for last one millennium, sometimes > peacefully and sometimes in conflict, but most of the times trying to > carve out ways to co-exist with fellow Indians, and make India a > progressive country. The contribution of Muslims to the progress of > India need not be repeated here. The bottom-line is: They cannot go > anywhere else – India is their home, and they have to struggle here > like everyone else. So, please don't meddle into our affairs. > > This plea is especially for those powerful institutions/organizations > in countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan who deliberately support > terrorism and violence against India and Hindus. You don't realize > that every time there is a terrorist attack in India, although a lot > of non-Muslims get killed or affected, but the ultimate loss is that > of Indian Muslims. They are the ones who are seen more and more as > culprits and a subject of hate and prejudice. It is our children (with > Muslim names) who are taunted in Indian schools as "Pakistanis", and > it is we who cannot rent a house in a mainstream colony because of our > Muslim tag, all because of you. So, our Islamic brothers, YOU ARE NOT > HELPING US come out of our suffering at all. You are actually pushing > us further into a furnace by carrying out the terrorist attacks on > "Hindus". We request and plead you to have mercy on this beautiful > country and the world, and stop your senseless jihad. If you are told > that you will to go to heaven (and get houris) when you die for the > cause of Islam, you are highly mistaken and misled. You will surely > burn in hell for harming innocent people. This world is not only for > Muslims – it is for everyone; whatever religion or culture they may > follow. So, live and let live. > > (2) The above message was meant for the "terrorists" infiltrating from > outside India and their supporters/sympathizers. And now for the > "home-grown" breed of terrorists. After the horrific 9/11 attacks, it > was reported by many that among the Muslim terrorists operating all > over the world, there are actually no Indian Muslims involved. > (Although Indian media and intelligence department had been claiming > since many years that Muslim madrasas are the breeding grounds of > terrorism, but not a single Indian madrasa has so far been found to be > involved in such activity). Every one was happy and proud about the > news of India Muslims' non-involvement in terrorism. But suddenly, > after the 2002 Gujarat pogrom, it was reported that Muslims residing > in India are becoming terrorists too, and many of them highly > educated-ones (engineers, doctors, IT professionals, etc.). They use > new technology of Internet, cell-phones and deadly explosive material > supplied by their counterparts from across the border. > > Subsequently, hundreds of young boys from Muslim localities have been > arrested and tortured by the Indian police, some even killed in > encounters. But most of them so far have only been accused and almost > none ultimately convicted or punished for an act of terrorism, due to > a lack of substantial evidence against them. Most Muslims and some > human rights activists argue that those arrested or killed Muslim boys > have nothing to do with terrorist activities and have been framed > wrongly. After seeing the adverse role of the police in recent > incidents such as an encounter at Batla House (Delhi) in September > 2008 where 2 such accused (and a police inspector) were killed, the > Muslim community has lost all faith in the police and intelligence > agencies, fearing that due to their prejudice they could arrest and > kill any Muslim at will in their war against terror. Their > investigations are not transparent, their proofs are not convincing, > and their encounters with terrorists look stage-managed. > > However, such a reaction from Muslims is also considered by some as a > "denial mode", and it is suggested (especially by the mainstream > media) that Muslims need to come out of this mode and accept the > reality that home-bred terrorists do exist in the community, > especially since those who carried out the recent blasts (in 2008) did > claim that they are "home-bred" terrorists. If the internal Muslims > are truly involved in such activities, and if we are serious about > nabbing and punishing them, it would be good for the peace-loving > Muslims themselves to come forward and make a strategy to help > eradicate this menace, rather than to leave it only to the > state-forces. Here is some advices worth considering: > > It is accepted by the media and the police that all Muslims are not > terrorists, but some Muslims do resort to extremism and violence, and > that the peace-loving intelligentsia among the Muslim community should > take responsibility to root out the bad elements. This is often > repeated on every news channel and newspaper after every attack: > Secular and elite Muslims need to sift out the extremist elements in > their community. Well, no right thinking Muslim can deny this > responsibility and there are many who are eagerly ready to play that > role. But terrorism or extremist elements of the society cannot be > eradicated by only their efforts, if the govt. and the police > themselves have been unable to do so. They need the same logistical > support and resources to bring out any change in the community, which > the authorities use. In fact, a more practical idea today would be an > active coordination between the intelligence agencies, the police, the > judiciary and the responsible people in the Muslim community. But for > that to happen, the first and foremost requirement is for the > officials to TRUST THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY. It is a widely known fact > that the number and ratio of Muslims in Indian security forces, > police, intelligence, ministries and other important institutions is > very abysmal – at least not proportionate to their population. > Moreover, in the war against the terror, the authorities never talk to > the responsible people from the community leave aside involving them > actively. > > A specific recent case that can serve as an example: > > Take the case of the recent police-terrorist encounter at Jamia Nagar, > Delhi. The Delhi Police (and its Special Cell) not only did not inform > any of the local citizens of the area before or during the operation > (while they gave prior information to the media), but also made no > effort to communicate to the frightened local residents afterwards > (even during their further arrests of youngsters from the locality), > while the theories of the encounter being fake were spreading in the > locality. Their encounter of 19th September 2008 was like a very > specialized surgical operation done on the body without giving it > anesthesia or stitching it back, or allowing it to heal. This simply > shows that they either look at the entire community with prejudice and > suspicion (of harbouring the terror within), or they are not genuinely > interested in uprooting the nuisance of terror, and only want to > continue showing to the world that Muslim terrorists exist. They > further infuriated many Muslims the next day by showcasing the three > arrested suspects to the media by covering their faces/heads in the > stereotypical pink Arab scarves, which is a clichéd symbol of orthodox > Muslims or Palestinian extremists. > > If the authorities start trusting the community and seriously involve > them in uprooting the internal terrorism, it may show better results > than secret raids and encounters. Some residents of Batla House > gathered outside the encounter site the next day said "even if there > were terrorists holed up in the flat, with weapons, there was a way to > peacefully flush them out. After all they were not holding any > hostages. The police knew their location in advance. It could have > taken some neighbours into confidence, emptied the entire > neighbourhood, blocked all exit paths from the flat, and then waited > (even if for days) until the boys got fed up or famished, and > surrendered. There were lots of possibilities, if there was a will." > What is required today is a confidence building between the police and > the people, and some kind citizen's initiatives or neighbourhood-watch > schemes, (which already exist in some of the posh areas of Indian > towns). > > The smaller towns (such as Azamgarh) or ghettoized localities (such as > Batla House) in the cities, where such initiatives are required more, > are unfortunately left to rot by our civic authorities. They could be > the breeding grounds of a lot of anti-social elements, but the > authorities are equally responsible for their sorry state. Thus, a > long-term solution to the mushrooming of internal terror is possible > only with a multi-pronged approach, the first requirement of which is > to eradicate the corruption and communal bias in the police > department, and make them people-friendly. They need to involve senior > and serious citizens of a locality to nab the likely culprits of > terror in their area. But this effort should not mean vigilance and > security measures so strict that they affect the privacy and trust > between people in a locality. > ==== > > Please join our facebook group to participate in this campaign: > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=124494910211 > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 12 18:29:31 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 04:59:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear References: <222708.90849.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <5af37bb0902110542x5ec41d29i6318231e9b8d1a55@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <190806.74995.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Yasir Kashmir being a part of India, it should not be surprising that the Indian Army was/is present there. You speak though of the 'nature' of that presence. Till the Pakistan sponsored Islamic Terrorism showed up in Kashmir, the Indian Army's 'nature' of Peacetime presence was like that of any other Army in the border region of any other country which has an enemy nation across the border. The Indian Army was deployed in the 'border posts' and was confined to Cantonment Areas elsewhere. It was only because of the 1965 Operation Gibraltar infiltration/invasion plan of Pakistan that the Indian Army had to first 'act' in the civilian areas. After the 1965 War and whatever possible mopping up of the Pakistani infiltrators, the Indian Army had no deployment in the civilian areas. With the start of the Pakistan sponsored Islamic Terrorism in late 1980s, the Indian Army was again forced to 'act' in the civilian areas.   Whatever  other 'excesses' the Indian Army may have committed against innocent Kashmiris, we did not have the kind of Artillery and Aerial Bombing attacks that the Pakistan Army has repeatedly resorted to against Pakistanis. I must say here that comparisons provide no justification and any 'excess' whatsoever by the Indian Army (or CRPF, or BSF, or RR) are totally unacceptable to me as an Indian. As far as 'sandwiched' or 'bun kabaabed' Afghanistan, Pakistan and India are concerned, the only thing stringing them together is Islamic Terrorism. Kshmendra ________________________________ From: yasir ~يا سر To: sarai list Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 5:42:26 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear thats a half callous statement if there is no mention of the nature of the indian army's presence in kashmir, like the pk army's actions such as aerial bombings in fata. and of course afghanistan pakistan and india are strung together in a sandwich, a south asian a bun kebab. On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > What Pakistan and Pakistanis and their supporters in Kashmir did to Kashmir, is now being done in Swat, Pakistan by it's own Pakistanis. > > Kshmendra > > > "Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear" > By Sher Baz Khan > Tuesday, 03 Feb, 2009 > > (MINGORA: The road to Swat used to be a byword for breathtaking beauty. Although it remains the most picturesque in the country, it now conjures up fear and lurking danger.) > The journey upwards from Mardan these days is forbidding. The entire route is a picture of utter desolation. Fear of the unknown has overtaken a place fabled for its fertile fields and majestic mountains. > Even a flying visit is enough to fill one with a sense of foreboding that religious extremists would overrun the valley before long. > Most people, especially those living in urban areas, seem to have lost the will to live. > Things started taking an ugly turn in July 2007 after the then NWFP chief minister Shamsul Mulk called in paramilitary forces to take on militants fired by Maulana Fazlullah's inflammatory rhetoric. > But the decision seems to have rebounded on the government, for now at least. The Maulana's followers hold sway over no less than 80 per cent of the Swat valley. > The Army is into the third phase of an operation that has seen the state's writ shrinking by the day. Of late the Taliban have made inroads into even settled areas, such as, Mardan, Takhtbai, Shergarh, and almost the entire Malakand Agency. > Taliban are spreading their message in the same way as they did, and still do, in Swat. The medium of the message is fear. In fact, fear is the message. > The moment I entered the region, I was struck by unmistakable signs of a place steadily turning its back on the outside world. Institution after institution is falling to the Taliban. > Non-combatants have a stark choice: seek refuge in other places or accept the diktat of Maulana Fazlullah. > I managed to strike conversations with some Swatis, albeit after much persuasion. > Abdullah Khan, a draper, narrated the ordeal of his brother, Rauf Khan, especially his treatment by a Rawalpindi-based psychiatrist. > 'Rauf saw the beheading of a man in a butcher shop by militants. Since that day he either laughs loudly or sheds tears in silence,' Abdullah said. > A stroll through Mingora's main marketplace brought us face to face with misery. A number of people poured their hearts out to us. > 'The thunder of bombs, rockets, grenades and whatnot linger in our ears.' > 'Go to the psychiatrists of Peshawar and Rawalpindi and ask them how many children, men and women from Swat they are treating these days. I bet the number will baffle you,' said Ajmal Khan, a college student. > The locals alleged that the military operation had killed more non-combatants than militants. > The economic fallout of the conflict is ominous. Most of the 1,000 hotels have gone out of business. The rent-a-car business is also dying out. > Shops dealing in CDs and operators of cable television have folded up after Maulana Fazlullah's warnings. > Barber shops have put up notices that they would not shave off beards as the Taliban have told them not to do so. > A glitzy plaza caught my eye with its elegant shops, but sadly there were no shoppers. > 'Women are not allowed to enter the premises unless they are accompanied by men,' read a banner fluttering over the entrance to the mall. > A number of tailors said they had been told not to let women enter their shops. > 'The upper and middle classes are leaving the valley and settling down elsewhere,' said Aleem Jan, a tailor making women's suits. He is among many who are planning to move to either Mardan or Peshawar. > Advertisement hoardings carrying pictures of women are disallowed. > Faces of women in ads are blackened or deformed. > A building housing the court is empty of lawyers and litigants as Taliban have decreed that the existing judicial order is un-Islamic. They have set up 73 sharia courts to administer 'speedy justice'. > These courts summon people on phone, threatening violators with death. > And speedy justice it is indeed. They settle cases within a couple of days. Hence they are getting popular. > 'A summon from the court of Fazlullah is like a death warrant. No one dare disobey it,' said Jamil Ahmed, a lawyer. > Although he favoured the existing judicial system, he was all praise for the sharia courts as they decide cases in no time. > Jamil cited the example of a woman whose plea for dissolution was decided the other day by a local court. The matter was lingering for the past 22 years. > She had applied for dissolution of marriage at the age of 21 and now she is 43. > The president of the Swat Bar Association, Aftab Alam, is against a parallel judiciary. But he too said judges should try to dispose of cases in 'reasonable time' to undercut the Taliban courts. > Only two of the 14 policewomen who worked in the district court take the trouble to report for duty these days. But they wear veils and keep a low profile, mostly hiding themselves behind bushes. > Almost all the legislators belonging to the ruling Awami National Party have fled from Swat. The exception is Afzal Khan Lala. All of them are on the Taliban's hit list. > > > http://www.dawn.net/wps/wcm/connect/Dawn%20Content%20Library/dawn/news/pakistan/nwfp/tourist-heaven-turns-into-valley-of-fear-ha > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 12 19:42:18 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 06:12:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear References: <222708.90849.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <5af37bb0902110542x5ec41d29i6318231e9b8d1a55@mail.gmail.com> <190806.74995.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <242238.57237.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Aashish 1. Alas! Looks like you have commented without having read my post. I had written: """"  I must say here that comparisons provide no justification and any 'excess' whatsoever by the Indian Army (or CRPF, or BSF, or RR) are totally unacceptable to me as an Indian.""""     So, why are you Alaasing! your pompous lecture on logic to me?  2. Again your convoluted interpretation of my having stated 'excesses' in the manner I did is all your own doing. The word 'Excesses' by itself does not enumerate the acts committed (or being accused of). It also does not provide an objective or even subjective evaluation of the acts nor the extent (gravity) of the excess. That is why I put it the word 'excesses' in inverted commas. It needs qualification. Kshmendra ________________________________ From: Aashish Gupta To: Kshmendra Kaul Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 5:14:31 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear From: Kshmendra Kaul To: yasir ~يا سر ; sarai list Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 4:59:31 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear Dear Yasir Kashmir being a part of India, it should not be surprising that the Indian Army was/is present there. You speak though of the 'nature' of that presence. Till the Pakistan sponsored Islamic Terrorism showed up in Kashmir, the Indian Army's 'nature' of Peacetime presence was like that of any other Army in the border region of any other country which has an enemy nation across the border. The Indian Army was deployed in the 'border posts' and was confined to Cantonment Areas elsewhere. It was only because of the 1965 Operation Gibraltar infiltration/invasion plan of Pakistan that the Indian Army had to first 'act' in the civilian areas. After the 1965 War and whatever possible mopping up of the Pakistani infiltrators, the Indian Army had no deployment in the civilian areas. With the start of the Pakistan sponsored Islamic Terrorism in late 1980s, the Indian Army was again forced to 'act' in the civilian areas.   Whatever  other 'excesses' the Indian Army may have committed against innocent Kashmiris, we did not have the kind of Artillery and Aerial Bombing attacks that the Pakistan Army has repeatedly resorted to against Pakistanis. I must say here that comparisons provide no justification and any 'excess' whatsoever by the Indian Army (or CRPF, or BSF, or RR) are totally unacceptable to me as an Indian. As far as 'sandwiched' or 'bun kabaabed' Afghanistan, Pakistan and India are concerned, the only thing stringing them together is Islamic Terrorism. Kshmendra Dear Kshmendra The fact - that the Indian army was present in the civilian areas of Kashmir because of Pakistan - does not, in any way, absolve them of the excesses they committed. Neither the fact that the Pakistani (or American) army commits greater violations make the human rights violations of the Indian army acceptable. I thought this lesson in logic would be known. Alas! And ok, the Indian army was forced to act. Let's accept this for a moment. Does acting iclude what the army did? Does the presence of terrorism force soldiers to rape, abduct, main and kill innocents? You put excesses within inverted commas. Would you like to clarify why you do that? Are they so called excesses? We would have a new term then - Pseudo-Excesses. Aashish From aashu.gupta20 at gmail.com Thu Feb 12 19:44:52 2009 From: aashu.gupta20 at gmail.com (Aashish Gupta) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 19:44:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear In-Reply-To: <242238.57237.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <222708.90849.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <5af37bb0902110542x5ec41d29i6318231e9b8d1a55@mail.gmail.com> <190806.74995.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <242238.57237.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ok, I am sorry. Aashish 2009/2/12 Kshmendra Kaul > Dear Aashish > > 1. Alas! Looks like you have commented without having read my post. I had > written: > > """" I must say here that comparisons provide no justification and any > 'excess' whatsoever by the Indian Army (or CRPF, or BSF, or RR) are totally > unacceptable to me as an Indian."""" > > So, why are you Alaasing! your pompous lecture on logic to me? > > 2. Again your convoluted interpretation of my having stated 'excesses' in > the manner I did is all your own doing. The word 'Excesses' by itself does > not enumerate the acts committed (or being accused of). It also does > not provide an objective or even subjective evaluation of the acts nor the > extent (gravity) of the excess. That is why I put it the word 'excesses' in > inverted commas. It needs qualification. > > Kshmendra > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Aashish Gupta > *To:* Kshmendra Kaul > *Sent:* Thursday, February 12, 2009 5:14:31 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear > > Dear Kshmendra > > The fact - that the Indian army was present in the civilian areas of > Kashmir because of Pakistan - does not, in any way, absolve them of the > excesses they committed. Neither the fact that the Pakistani (or American) > army commits greater violations make the human rights violations of the > Indian army acceptable. > > I thought this lesson in logic would be known. Alas! > > And ok, the Indian army was forced to act. Let's accept this for a moment. > Does acting iclude what the army did? Does the presence of terrorism force > soldiers to rape, abduct, main and kill innocents? > > You put excesses within inverted commas. Would you like to clarify why you > do that? Are they so called excesses? We would have a new term then - > Pseudo-Excesses. > > Aashish > > > From: Kshmendra Kaul > *To:* yasir ~يا سر ; sarai list < > reader-list at sarai.net> > *Sent:* Thursday, February 12, 2009 4:59:31 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear > > Dear Yasir > > Kashmir being a part of India, it should not be surprising that the Indian > Army was/is present there. > > You speak though of the 'nature' of that presence. Till the Pakistan > sponsored Islamic Terrorism showed up in Kashmir, the Indian Army's 'nature' > of Peacetime presence was like that of any other Army in the border region > of any other country which has an enemy nation across the border. The Indian > Army was deployed in the 'border posts' and was confined to Cantonment > Areas elsewhere. > > It was only because of the 1965 Operation Gibraltar infiltration/invasion > plan of Pakistan that the Indian Army had to first 'act' in the civilian > areas. After the 1965 War and whatever possible mopping up of the Pakistani > infiltrators, the Indian Army had no deployment in the civilian areas. > > With the start of the Pakistan sponsored Islamic Terrorism in late 1980s, > the Indian Army was again forced to 'act' in the civilian areas. > > Whatever other 'excesses' the Indian Army may have committed against > innocent Kashmiris, we did not have the kind of Artillery and Aerial Bombing > attacks that the Pakistan Army has repeatedly resorted to against > Pakistanis. I must say here that comparisons provide no justification and > any 'excess' whatsoever by the Indian Army (or CRPF, or BSF, or RR) are > totally unacceptable to me as an Indian. > > As far as 'sandwiched' or 'bun kabaabed' Afghanistan, Pakistan and India > are concerned, the only thing stringing them together is Islamic Terrorism. > > Kshmendra > > > > From indiaonedge at gmail.com Thu Feb 12 22:43:23 2009 From: indiaonedge at gmail.com (indiaonedge wordpress) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 22:43:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] They will use you, And They will cast you away Message-ID: <7b288a440902120913p53cc829aubaf12ceef8926670@mail.gmail.com> They will use you, And They will cast you away February 12, 2009 Where did all the media frenzies lead us, till now. Rang De Basanti was a fortuitous flash of inspiration for the 'new' media. The story of a youth like 'us', who rise up in anger against something old and wrong. And achieve a hero status. That was a story that could easily take hold of millions of young minds. The idea-starved media took a shot at it. And hit pay dirt gold. They fell over themselves in making the reservations a national issue. And 'we' played into it by braving water cannons and lighting candles and walking with long strides and fierce eyes. Till we realised that they had turned away. Looking past when we most needed the strength and sense of power they subtly offered us. As moved on to other things. How many of these 'this-has-changed-India' moments have we had. The booming Sensex? We saw it all over. A new, confident, resurgent India. Karan Johar neatly twitching with pride with Richard Gere fawning him over with his brand of India eulogising and China bashing. More recently they say that we have had enough of terrorism, and that enough was enough, and it looked like they were again fighting for us. Fat chance. Mumbais gun weilders are long past dead. As we realise that the media was sometimes fighting among us , and mostly over us. There are numerous other examples. Many are city specific. A frenzy that helps them comfortably get seated in the psyche of a people. And stay on there with yearly subscriptions making us feel like we cannot do without them. Bal Thackeray, now Rama Sene, pink chaddis and all. Reminds me of a senior of mine. Who encouraged conflict only because it allowed him to retain the reigns of power. All over again it happens. Pink chaddis won't last long. Tomorrow they will be SO yesterday's news. http://indiaonedge.wordpress.com/2009/02/12/they-will-use-you-and-cast-you-away/ From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Feb 12 22:47:13 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 22:47:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Anti-Islam film's maker blasts UK over ban Message-ID: <6353c690902120917q665e2b7fj6a9bc8a3ffb019d@mail.gmail.com> Anti-Islam film's maker blasts UK over ban *LONDON, England (CNN)* -- Controversial Dutch filmmaker Geert Wilders condemned as "crazy and cowardly" Britain's refusal to let him enter the country Thursday. [image: Geert Wilders shows his passport and boarding pass at Amsterdam's Schiphol airport before leaving for London.] Geert Wilders shows his passport and boarding pass at Amsterdam's Schiphol airport before leaving for London. Wilders, a Dutch lawmaker who produced a much-criticized film about Islam last year, flew to London for a screening of the movie despite being told a day earlier he would not be admitted. "I still believed and hoped that they would change their tune," he told CNN by telephone, saying he was speaking from a detention room at London's Heathrow Airport. He said he was met by customs officers as soon as he left the plane. "They took me to a detention center," Wilders said, and there he was interviewed "for 45 seconds" before they took his passport and left. Wilders had been invited to screen his film, "Fitna," at the House of Lords on Thursday evening. The 15-minute film features disturbing images of terrorist acts superimposed over verses from Islam's holy book, the Quran, to paint Islam as a threat to Western society. The British ambassador to the Netherlands told him Wednesday that he would be refused entry into Britain because the beliefs expressed in the film would threaten public security. Britain's Home Office said barring Wilders is allowed under European Union law, which permits states to refuse entry on the grounds of public policy, public security or public health. "The government opposes extremism in all its forms," said a Home Office spokesman, who would not be identified, in line with policy. "It will stop those who want to spread extremism, hatred and violent messages in our communities from coming to our country." Wilders is a member of the Dutch parliament for the right-wing Party for Freedom. He released "Fitna" online in March 2008 to immediate controversy. The 15-minute film features disturbing images of terrorist acts superimposed over verses from Islam's holy book, the Quran, to paint Islam as a threat to Western society. Caroline Cox, a member of Britain's House of Lords who is not affiliated with a political party, invited Wilders to screen his film at a private session in parliament. She told CNN that she wanted lawmakers to see the film to provoke discussion. "We're showing it on the basis of freedom of speech," said Cox, who has been a free speech advocate throughout her career. "It's a serious showing, with serious concerns and serious consideration." Cox said she disagreed with the government's decision to bar Wilders, who was also scheduled to discuss the film. "I think it's appalling," she told CNN. "(For) the British government to prevent a European parliamentarian coming to speak to parliamentarians over here is very disturbing. I think it will be ready by many people as a sign of appeasement to threat and intimidation." After its release, the movie drew complaints from the European Union and the Organization of the Islamic Conference, as well as concern from the United States, which warned it could spark riots. Dutch authorities filed charges against Wilders last month, accusing him of inciting racial hatred in speeches and in the film. "Fitna" opens with a controversial caricature of the Prophet Mohammed wearing a turban shaped like a bomb, followed by translated portions of the Quran. The passages are interspersed with graphic images of the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks against the United States, juxtaposed with audio from 911 calls made by the victims trapped inside the World Trade Center in New York. The video includes images of other terror attacks; bloodied victims; beheadings of hostages; executions of women in hijab, the traditional full-body covering; and footage, with subtitles, of Islamic leaders preaching inflammatory sermons against Jews and Christians. In his interview with the BBC, Wilders said he does not hate Muslims but opposes the "Islamization" of the European continent. The title "Fitna," is Arabic for "strife" or "conflict" of the type that occurs within families or any other homogenous group. Five years ago, Dutch director Theo van Gogh was stabbed to death by a member of a radical Islamic group after his short film "Submission" used verses from the Quran written on women's bodies to criticize the treatment of women in Islamic cultures. His co-producer on the project, Somali-born former Dutch lawmaker Ayaan Hirsi Ali, lived under government protection for several years after van Gogh's killing. She now lives in the United States. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 12 20:02:20 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 06:32:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Is anyone thinking about boycotting Pakistan? Conversations References: <5af37bb0902110533l3ec5f565uab97d225c99e5101@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <738604.77188.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Yasir You wrote: "I really dont think the 90's could have happened in Kashmir without the Cold War Afghanistan engagement since the 70's" Pakistan's rape of Kashmir and Kashmiris (both figuratively and literally) started with Pakistan's incursion into Kashmir in 1947 even though it had a Standstill Agreement with the Maharajah of Kashmir. The UN Resolutions on Kashmir confirm this by asking the territory to be vacated by Pakistan. This 1947 duplicity of Pakistan, found a new 'avtaar' in the surreptitious1965 Operation Gibraltar launched by Pakistan when it sent infiltrators into Kashmir. 1947 and 1965 precede the 70s. The "Cold War Afghanistan engagement since the 70s" only led to additional raping of Kashmir and Kashmiris (both figuratively and literally) by the Jihadi Terrorists who had been created by Pakistan, reared by Pakistan, nurtured by Pakistan and supported by Pakistan. Kshmendra ________________________________ From: yasir ~يا سر To: sarai list Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 5:33:09 PM Subject: [Reader-list] Is anyone thinking about boycotting Pakistan? Conversations No I am not thinking of boycotting pakistan, but certainly i favour a boycott of Israel along south african lines. A south african union of port workers has called for the boycott of israel refusing to offload shipments there. i dont knowthe details butthere is some significance in it coming from post apartheid south africa http://www.transportworkers.org/node/1001 a pakistani boycott of israel doesn't really affect israeli pakistani relations which were improving during Musharraf's time but with the palestine /ghazza issue it makes sense to do/continue it, altho an indian boycott could affect israeli-indian relations negatively. an indian boycott of pakistan doesn't make much sense since the relations are bad anyway. so maybe india attacking pakistan is an action just down the line - so a war may be the right way to go, especially if the boycott is international such as after the nuclear tests in pokhran and chagai baluchistan. then its a short walk from toba tek singh to chernobyl: http://www.premiosergiomotta.org.br/blog/chernobyl2.php?itemid=147 but like india has lost its nerve with israel since the non-aligned movement waned which i imagine nehru must have advocated, india just does not have it to go to war with pakistan leaving aside the aggressive posturing, and pakistans conciliatory tone. If there is anything they shouldd be doing its ending the militancy in afghanistan and the pakistani tribal areas, which willeventually also berelated to a climb down from the mountains of kashmir. now who has the guts to breathe that fresh air. India ? I really dont think the 90's could have happened in Kashmir without the Cold War Afghanistan engagement since the 70's.. but conversations and digressions should flow: http://dawn.com/weekly/books/books2.htm best yasir _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Feb 12 20:04:45 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:34:45 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] From the newspaper. In-Reply-To: <24748b497ee4978cfcf7c8b53f3644c8@sarai.net> References: <44EDBD72-06E8-4E71-8A39-D2008C145024@sarai.net> <65be9bf40902110630q3cfd1014lf3e085d903087c6d@mail.gmail.com> <24748b497ee4978cfcf7c8b53f3644c8@sarai.net> Message-ID: <65be9bf40902120634q5277685fs2db826c19a613186@mail.gmail.com> Dear Jeebesh >I hope you are not proposing a "steady state" precariousness beyond all events.> Maybe I am. Maybe because I would like to think that in so far as interaction of a human being with another goes we cannot entirely rule out precarity. I would not articulate this precarity as 'beyond all events' though but rather I would locate it within the agency of all human beings. Here when I talk about precarity, I refer to the idea of precarity in general rather than a specific reading of precarity with respect to work as I meant in my earlier mail. The 'sense of fluctuation' that you refer to is perhaps what marx term as 'oscillation' again and again in his works. Fluctuation is more widely used now to describe the oscillation of stocks, for instance. You are right in a way, because I cannot think of precarity without fluctuation. I was trying to point towards a view that all this 'now and then' analysis is perhaps an incongruous conjecture. Maybe because 'chaotic inflation' exists in some form, we just have to find a way to not discard it. Regards Taha From taraprakash at gmail.com Thu Feb 12 20:09:23 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 09:39:23 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Johann Hari: Why should I respect these oppressivereligions? (Muslims protest) References: <689329.97162.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <434C6FA0E5E648C28B2D198F4782C31D@tara> The case again convinces me that religious feelings need to be hurt at every opportunity. These religious people need to get immune from such criticism. We also neeed to check the role of the ruling CPI(M) in the some of such protests. Muslims in India are mostly tolerant. It was in Kolkata that the processions against Taslima Nasreen took place as a result of which she had to leave Kolkata. That was soon after CPI(M) attrocities in Nandi Gram and Singur came in to the picture. This incident is not after CPI(M) cadres' attacking a village supposedly controled by TMC. The gruesome incident resulted in 16 persons getting killed despite the police being informed of such a planned attack beforehand. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kshmendra Kaul" To: "sarai list" Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 5:43 AM Subject: [Reader-list] Johann Hari: Why should I respect these oppressivereligions? (Muslims protest) > Ravindra Kumar (Editor)and Anand Sinha (Publisher) of The > Statesman-Kolkata were briefly arrested and released on bail for > publishing on 5th Feb '09 the article by Johann Hari "Why should I respect > these oppressive religions?" > http://in.reuters.com/article/topNews/idINIndia-37979220090212 > > They were charged with "deliberate act with malicious intent to outrage > religious feelings". > > Islamic groups had protested in front of Statesman House and a police > complaint was lodged against The Statesman by a Muslim. > > The article by Johann Hari originally published by The Independent (UK) on > 28th Jan '09 is reproduced below. > > EXTRACT: > > QUOTE : All people deserve respect, but not all ideas do. I don't respect > the idea that a man was born of a virgin, walked on water and rose from > the dead. I don't respect the idea that we should follow a "Prophet" who > at the age of 53 had sex with a nine-year old girl, and ordered the murder > of whole villages of Jews because they wouldn't follow him. > > I don't respect the idea that the West Bank was handed to Jews by God and > the Palestinians should be bombed or bullied into surrendering it. I don't > respect the idea that we may have lived before as goats, and could live > again as woodlice. This is not because of "prejudice" or "ignorance", but > because there is no evidence for these claims. They belong to the > childhood of our species, and will in time look as preposterous as > believing in Zeus or Thor or Baal. UNQUOTE > > Kshmendra > > > > THE INDEPENDENT > January 28, 2009 > > "Johann Hari: Why should I respect these oppressive religions?" > (Whenever a religious belief is criticised, its adherents say they're > victims of 'prejudice') > > The right to criticise religion is being slowly doused in acid. Across the > world, the small, incremental gains made by secularism – giving us the > space to doubt and question and make up our own minds – are being beaten > back by belligerent demands that we "respect" religion. A historic marker > has just been passed, showing how far we have been shoved. The UN > rapporteur who is supposed to be the global guardian of free speech has > had his job rewritten – to put him on the side of the religious censors. > > The Universal Declaration of Human Rights stated 60 years ago that "a > world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief is > the highest aspiration of the common people". It was a Magna Carta for > mankind – and loathed by every human rights abuser on earth. Today, the > Chinese dictatorship calls it "Western", Robert Mugabe calls it > "colonialist", and Dick Cheney calls it "outdated". The countries of the > world have chronically failed to meet it – but the document has been held > up by the United Nations as the ultimate standard against which to check > ourselves. Until now. > > Starting in 1999, a coalition of Islamist tyrants, led by Saudi Arabia, > demanded the rules be rewritten. The demand for everyone to be able to > think and speak freely failed to "respect" the "unique sensitivities" of > the religious, they decided – so they issued an alternative Islamic > Declaration of Human Rights. It insisted that you can only speak within > "the limits set by the shariah [law]. It is not permitted to spread > falsehood or disseminate that which involves encouraging abomination or > forsaking the Islamic community". > > In other words, you can say anything you like, as long as it precisely > what the reactionary mullahs tell you to say. The declaration makes it > clear there is no equality for women, gays, non-Muslims, or apostates. It > has been backed by the Vatican and a bevy of Christian fundamentalists. > > Incredibly, they are succeeding. The UN's Rapporteur on Human Rights has > always been tasked with exposing and shaming those who prevent free > speech – including the religious. But the Pakistani delegate recently > demanded that his job description be changed so he can seek out and > condemn "abuses of free expression" including "defamation of religions and > prophets". The council agreed – so the job has been turned on its head. > Instead of condemning the people who wanted to murder Salman Rushdie, they > will be condemning Salman Rushdie himself. > > Anything which can be deemed "religious" is no longer allowed to be a > subject of discussion at the UN – and almost everything is deemed > religious. Roy Brown of the International Humanist and Ethical Union has > tried to raise topics like the stoning of women accused of adultery or > child marriage. The Egyptian delegate stood up to announce discussion of > shariah "will not happen" and "Islam will not be crucified in this > council" – and Brown was ordered to be silent. Of course, the first > victims of locking down free speech about Islam with the imprimatur of the > UN are ordinary Muslims. > > Here is a random smattering of events that have taken place in the past > week in countries that demanded this change. In Nigeria, divorced women > are routinely thrown out of their homes and left destitute, unable to see > their children, so a large group of them wanted to stage a protest – but > the Shariah police declared it was "un-Islamic" and the marchers would be > beaten and whipped. In Saudi Arabia, the country's most senior > government-approved cleric said it was perfectly acceptable for old men to > marry 10-year-old girls, and those who disagree should be silenced. In > Egypt, a 27-year-old Muslim blogger Abdel Rahman was seized, jailed and > tortured for arguing for a reformed Islam that does not enforce shariah. > > To the people who demand respect for Muslim culture, I ask: which Muslim > culture? Those women's, those children's, this blogger's – or their > oppressors'? > > As the secular campaigner Austin Darcy puts it: "The ultimate aim of this > effort is not to protect the feelings of Muslims, but to protect illiberal > Islamic states from charges of human rights abuse, and to silence the > voices of internal dissidents calling for more secular government and > freedom." > > Those of us who passionately support the UN should be the most outraged by > this. > > Underpinning these "reforms" is a notion seeping even into democratic > societies – that atheism and doubt are akin to racism. Today, whenever a > religious belief is criticised, its adherents immediately claim they are > the victims of "prejudice" – and their outrage is increasingly being > backed by laws. > > All people deserve respect, but not all ideas do. I don't respect the idea > that a man was born of a virgin, walked on water and rose from the dead. I > don't respect the idea that we should follow a "Prophet" who at the age of > 53 had sex with a nine-year old girl, and ordered the murder of whole > villages of Jews because they wouldn't follow him. > > I don't respect the idea that the West Bank was handed to Jews by God and > the Palestinians should be bombed or bullied into surrendering it. I don't > respect the idea that we may have lived before as goats, and could live > again as woodlice. This is not because of "prejudice" or "ignorance", but > because there is no evidence for these claims. They belong to the > childhood of our species, and will in time look as preposterous as > believing in Zeus or Thor or Baal. > > When you demand "respect", you are demanding we lie to you. I have too > much real respect for you as a human being to engage in that charade. > > But why are religious sensitivities so much more likely to provoke demands > for censorship than, say, political sensitivities? The answer lies in the > nature of faith. If my views are challenged I can, in the end, check them > against reality. If you deregulate markets, will they collapse? If you > increase carbon dioxide emissions, does the climate become destabilised? > If my views are wrong, I can correct them; if they are right, I am > soothed. > > But when the religious are challenged, there is no evidence for them to > consult. By definition, if you have faith, you are choosing to believe in > the absence of evidence. Nobody has "faith" that fire hurts, or Australia > exists; they know it, based on proof. But it is psychologically painful to > be confronted with the fact that your core beliefs are based on thin air, > or on the empty shells of revelation or contorted parodies of reason. It's > easier to demand the source of the pesky doubt be silenced. > > But a free society cannot be structured to soothe the hardcore faithful. > It is based on a deal. You have an absolute right to voice your beliefs – > but the price is that I too have a right to respond as I wish. Neither of > us can set aside the rules and demand to be protected from offence. > > Yet this idea – at the heart of the Universal Declaration – is being lost. > To the right, it thwacks into apologists for religious censorship; to the > left, it dissolves in multiculturalism. The hijacking of the UN Special > Rapporteur by religious fanatics should jolt us into rescuing the simple, > battered idea disintegrating in the middle: the equal, indivisible human > right to speak freely. > > An excellent blog that keeps you up to dates on secularist issues is > Butterflies and Wheels, which you can read here > [http://www.butterfliesandwheels.com/notes.php]. > > If you want to get involved in fighting for secularism, join the National > Secular Society here. [http://www.secularism.org.uk/join.html] > > j.hari at independent.co.uk [http://mailto:j.hari at independent.co.uk] > > http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-why-should-i-respect-these-oppressive-religions-1517789.html > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Feb 12 20:14:19 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 20:14:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Omar Abdullah barred from performing Umrah due to marrying a non-muslim (Sikh) woman Message-ID: <6353c690902120644v1d151e08x40f9ac1d3dc7d3d8@mail.gmail.com> Omar Abdullah barred from performing Umrah due to marrying a non-muslim (Sikh) woman Shabir Ibn Yusuf Thursday, 12 February 2009 SRINAGAR: The Saudi Arabia government has denied permission to Chief Minister Omar Abdullah for performing the Umrah. His martial status has been cited the cause of denial. Kashmir grand Mufti says Omar can not perform the Umrah and termed the decision of Saudi government as landmark decision. Omar along with his father and former chief minister Dr Farooq Abdullah was scheduled to leave for Umrah this month. "He has not been allowed by the Saudi government," said senior government official. According sources in the government the documents for his Umrah were sent to Saudi embassy and they informed the Omar they "You are barred" and his non- Muslim wife has been cited the reason. "The column in which Omar has written the status has been encircled," the source said. It needs a mention here that Omar's wife Payal belongs to Sikh dynasty. In Arabic, the word 'Umrah is derived from I'timaar which means a visit. However, 'Umrah in Islamic terminology, means paying a visit to Ka' bah, performing Tawaaf (circumambulation) around it, walking between Safaa and Marwah seven times. A performer of 'Umrah puts off his Ihraam by having his hair shaved or cut. 'Umrah can be performed along with Hajj and in other days as well. Sources said after the denial Omar visited Ajmer Sharief to pay homage, "He visited the Ajmer Sharief and paid homage there," the sources added. The officials and ministers in government are not ready to comment at all. "This is personal, I would not comment," said a senior officer adding, "Please do not quote me." "We are Jammu and Omar Sahib has left somewhere," he added further. One of his ministers in his cabinet termed it strange question and said, "Please do not ask me this question, ask CM sahib." Mufti Bashir-u-Din, the grand Mufti of Kashmir said that Omar can not perform the Umrah. "He is a Muslim and his wife is not Muslim," he said adding, "According to Islamic principals he can not and the decision of Saudi government is a landmark decision." From lawrence at altlawforum.org Fri Feb 13 00:44:46 2009 From: lawrence at altlawforum.org (Lawrence Liang) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 00:44:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Interview with Jacques Ranciere Message-ID: Hi All I recently conducted an interview with Prof. Jacques Ranciere when he was visiting Sarai, and I am posting the interview with an introduction to him. The full interview can also be accessed at Kafila at the following address http://kafila.org/2009/02/12/interview-with-jacques-ranciere/ *Interview with Jacques Rancière *Conducted by Lawrence Liang Lodi Gardens, Delhi, 5th February 2009 Jacques Rancière (born Algiers, 1940) is Emeritus Professor, Philosophy, at the University of Paris (St. Denis). He came to prominence when he co-authored Reading Capital (1968), with Louis Althusser, the Marxist philosopher. He subsequently broke away from Althusser and wrote The Nights of Labour, a work that examined the philosophical and poetical writings of workers in 19th century France. Through an examination of the lives of these worker autodidacts, Rancière introduced a new way of thinking about the idea of the worker, and of the injunction that divides between those entitled to a life in thought and those born to do manual labour. He went on to write The Philosopher and His Poor which looks at the figure of the poor artisan from classical philosophy down to Marx and Sartre. In The Ignorant Schoolmaster, inspired by the experiences of a radical early 19th century teacher, Joseph Jacotot, Rancière sought to rethink the idea of pedagogy away from the idea of moving form the unknown to the known and from those who possess knowledge to those who don't, to look at how all forms of ignorance are also conditions of knowledge. He was in Delhi recently, on the occasion of the release of the Hindi language edition of The Nights of Labour. *Le us begin with a quote, which will help us draw people unfamiliar with your work, into the heart of The Nights of Labour. Why is a worker who composes verses more dangerous than the one who performs revolutionary songs?* I did not exactly say that the one is more dangerous than the other. You have to see it historically. The fact is that in France in the 1830s there were a lot of workers doing verse, doing literature, and I think the bourgeoisie felt that there was a danger when the worker entered the world of thought and of culture. When workers are only struggling, then they are supposed to be in their world and in their place. Workers were supposed to work and be dissatisfied with their wages, their working conditions and possibly still work again, struggle again and again. But when workers attempt to write verses and try to become writers, philosophers, it means a displacement from their identity as workers. The important thing is this dis-placement or dis-identification. What I was trying to show was that there was no real opposition. I don't mean that all workers who are attempting to write verses had entered the revolution or anything, but it was a kind of a general movement of people getting out of their condition. *A common sentiment shared amongst those involved in emancipatory politics suggest that "Another world is possible". And yet this suggestion is often premised on the idea of the material improvement of existing worlds. I read in Nights of Labour another suggestion, which is not as interested in the improvement of the material conditions of existing worlds, as much as in fleeing it. You suggest that these worker-writers were already participating in the impossible by redrawing the lines. How do you conceptualize the relationship between emancipation and the politics of impossibility? * It all depends on what you understand by the word impossibility. It was only not about looking for something which was absolutely impossible, I was looking at situations as the distribution of positions. It means what can be seen, what can be said and what can be thought of as being possible. A situation determines a set of possibilities, and the impossible is the limit. I was looking at the idea of the emancipated worker, where the question is always of crossing the borders of the impossible. Because what was ironically possible was the improvement of the conditions of work and wages, but it was not enough. What they wanted was to become entirely human, with all the possibilities of a human being and not only having what is possible to do for workers. So that there is not necessarily an opposition between material improvement, and this attempt. I hope I did not give the impression that on the one hand there is concern with these material improvements and on the other hand the greatest impossible. The question of what is possible and impossible is really at stake in every situation, and I think the intellectual impossible and the material impossible are connected with one another. What was impossible was really changing a form of existence, and that is why the book was called The Nights of the Proletariat, because what was most materially and intellectually impossible for a worker is precisely not to sleep at night. This was entirely material and entirely intellectual at the same time. That was what made it important for me *Your imagination of equality is radically different from liberal ideas of equality. Equality in your work is not an ends to arrive at, but the point of departure. Your work assumes that everyone leads an intellectual life, but recognizes that material and economic differences determine our ability to perform this intellectual life. How does this idea of equality differ from the general struggles for equality? And I think this is quite relevant in a context like India where we are on the one hand marked by very sharp social and economic inequality, but the only way in which one finally finds forms of addressing that is from a very unequal place. That's why the pedantic and the pedagogic comes in – the struggle for finding terms of addressing what may be material inequality, but which actually take the quality of thought as a starting point. * We can locate this in the debate about education because in our countries, education is supposed to be the way to make people equal, starting from inequality. It is at the same time the logic of pedagogy and also the logic of progress, and a progressive thinking that of course people are not equal, and lower class people are not equal, and that precisely this derogation regenerates equality and we can get out of that condition etc etc. This is the normal pedagogic and progress of your thinking. When I encountered the works of Joseph Jacotot, I was very challenged. It is very difficult to categorise him. Was he a philosopher, a professor? His work led me to rethink the very idea of pedagogy, and what it means to teach. Similarly in the 1820s there was a lot of concern about how we can educate the people, slowly, progressively: but that was not the point, the idea of starting from inequality to reach quality; it's impossible because in the very process, you ceaselessly recycle practices of inequality. You must not go towards equality, but must start from equality. Starting from equality does not presuppose that everyone in the world has equal opportunities to learn, to express their capacities. That's not the point. The point is that you have to start from the minimum equality that is given. The normal pedagogic logic says that people are ignorant, they don't know how to get out of ignorance to learn, so we have to make some kind of an itinerary to move from ignorance to knowledge, starting from the difference between the one who knows and the one who does not know. The idea of Jacotot and the idea of intellectual emancipation was that there is always some point of equality. There is always something that is shared, for instance when the teacher is explaining something to the student, on the one hand it supposes that he has something to explain, that the student is unable to understand by himself or herself etc, so this is a relationship of inequality, but it can work only if the master supposes that that the students can simply understand the explanation, understand what the master is telling him. So there is a kind of equality in the fact that they atleast share the same language. So the idea is not that we consider everybody as equal etc etc, rather it is about thinking about the process of learning, not as a process from ignorance to knowledge but as a process of going from what is already known or what is already possessed, to further knowledge or new possessions. I think it is a very important point so the idea is that the ignorant always knows something, always asks something and always has the capacity, and the problem is how to make the best of this capacity and start from equality. When I wrote The Ignorant Schoolmaster there was a big debate in France because there sociologists were saying that education is a lie, that education supposes that all the kids are equal and can understand the same thing, and that's not true, so you have to adapt education to the background of the students, especially of the lower classes. At the same time there were the Republicans saying equality means that we have to consider everyone at the same level, which means that they are all ignorant but had to become learned. So that was the debate and I tried to subvert the debate, to state precisely that all those people are looking for the best path – from inequality to equality, but the only good part is to move from equality to equality. *How would you distinguish between the ignorant schoolmaster and something like the pedagogy of the oppressed? * When I wrote The Ignorant Schoolmaster, I was not very concerned with a pedagogy of the oppressed, mainly because it was not a part of the French debate. The pedagogy of the oppressed is also about linking general education with political education, so I think that if there is something common between intellectual emancipation and pedagogy of the oppressed, it is the idea that education first means enablement, that you first deal with the capacity possessed even by the oppressed, or by the lower class people. But at the same time, it is true that intellectual emancipation means that there is no specific pedagogy of the oppressed, that there is no specific education for poor people or oppressed people etc. If there is a specific pedagogy of the oppressed, then it must be thought of as a specific case in the general idea of intellectual emancipation, because basically the idea of emancipation is the same for rich people and for poor people. * Nights of Labour recasts the relationship between aesthetics and politics: At the heart of the book is an 'aesthetic revolution' which is fundamentally about the reordering of time (workers wresting away the 'intellectual nights of the writer' challenge the assumption that labour exhausts the labourer and hence is not able to participate in intellectual life). How would you revisit this thesis in the contemporary era of global capital? It is said that the contemporary reordering of time destroys 'forms of life' and subjects it to the tyranny of time.* Of course it is not the same situation and the Nights of Labour dealt with a period of history when there was no legislation about labour hours and things like that. But it was also a period when practices of auto-didactism were very important amongst the working-class. So both the questions of the partition of time and access to education and culture were quite different and certainly the power of intellectual emancipation was linked to a specific time. But at the same time, I would really question the idea that in contemporary capitalism all life is really framed within the capitalist organization of time and of life. In a way it is always the same. Of course, the possibilities of life are different and the organization of private and public life is quite different, as is the relationship between what is work and what is outside work. Everything has changed. What I think remains the same is that in each situation you have the choice between two positions. You could say that life is entirely subjected to the empire of domination, which means at that time during the whole day all the people were subjected to the law of the workshops, and they just had time for work and rest, and they had no time to waste, and they had to go to work the following day. But the workers said no, it is not true, it is possible to break the circle. Now of course the circle is constructed differently. People say that people work less and that there are some forms of protection etc. But now their life is entirely dominated by the rhythms of labour on the one hand and on the other hand by all the apparatuses of consumption, or with the power of the media etc. So in a way it is always the same discourse that says that life is entirely subjugated with the idea that every change is a new form of subjugation. For instance many people, when they read Foucault, they got from Foucault the idea that all forms – of welfare state, social security etc – were forms of administration of government and of the life of people. I do not think this is true because you have the same debate on the same choice, but you can use it differently. And you can think of it quite differently. Now people say for instance that with television and the internet life is entirely subjugated. But we all know of examples with the internet, that it can be subjugated with the dominant ideology or you can create new forms of discussion and discourse etc. So my point is that there is this kind of lingering discourse that life is entirely subjugated or exhausted, and I think the idea of bio politics has something very harmful about it. Because there's this idea that in bio-politics, life is entirely governed, and even inside us, even our blood and flesh is governed by power. But I don't think so and I remember in the 70s and 80s, we tried precisely to take a distance from this view that was also becoming dominant in left wing thinking. *While reading Nights of Labour the one thing that had struck me, was the fact that what Gauny and his friends were fighting this idea that your life has been exhausted, your life has already been decided and that there is no other possibility. This is something that as intellectual labourer or cultural labourers in the late 20th and early 21st century, we recognize, we seem to be continuously fighting social theory and forms of discourse that keep reminding us that our selves are already exhausted, the possibilities of creative expression are exhausted through commodification etc, the possibility of forms of visioning life are exhausted because of bio politics which has taken over. So it seems like we are somehow actively possessed by Gauny, to keep ourselves alive. So in a sense, Nights of Labour is not about the past, but is written for the future, and for thinking about intellectual and cultural labour in the contemporary. * Yes, certainly what is interesting in the case of Gauny is the construction of a counter economy, which sounds rather paradoxical because he tries to reduce his consumption precisely to get free from the empire of necessity and in a certain way you could even say that he is a forerunner of the ecological movement and things like that. But the point is not whether he is a forerunner of ecology, rather he is the forerunner of the idea of emancipation, which means that you can always turn the conditions around. Following from that, one could say that the common account of the revolution is an account where the revolution comes after time. But in the Nights of Labour, by breaking the distinction between the aesthetic and the political revolution, the revolution is one which is in time, and is happening – along with us. Could you elaborate on this distinction. When I tried to think of the idea of intellectual emancipation, there is no distinction between the idea that – now we are struggling, now we are constructing and now we are preparing the future and the future will be wonderful. The art of emancipation is precisely to get out of this relationship between means and ends, which in the leftist tradition is based on the idea that now we create the conditions for a better future, we are preparing the weapons for the future, which means a certain phase in historical necessity. But what I think is at the heart of emancipation is precisely the idea that time is everyday. This does not mean that you have to be entirely swallowed in the everyday, but that the question of time is not to be thought of in terms of present and future, it has to be related to the partition between here and now, between time as a form of constraint and time as a possibility of freedom; and what is important in Nights of Labour was this idea of the subversion of time, and what happens in the here and now. My point is that this idea of the future, and the use of time as a form of prohibition, that you can have it in the future but you cannot have it in the present, an idea of deferred time, so the idea of historical necessity and historical process, is part of this repressive idea of time. Because the main point is whether you can or cannot and whether you use time to say yes we can, or no we can't. *In many ways the Nights of Labour can be read as a poetics of curiosity (the figure of the auto didact), and yet curiosity itself seems to be under theorized in your own work. * I didn't elaborate on the idea of curiosity and perhaps somebody can elaborate on this now, but at that time what was important for me in the idea of curiosity can be seen through the prism of looking: You look on the side, you look at places or questions that are not supposed to be your place or your questions. For instance in Gauny's book there is this relationship of the day to work, but there is also a disjuncture at a particular moment – between the eye and the look – to go aside. To look through the window, to take an imaginary possession of the neighbourhood which is at the same time not a real possession but is something real, because it means that you are not only working or only a worker working with his hands, but also his eyes are looking at what his hands are doing. So curiosity for me is in this mode, I was interested in the idea of transgression. So you're putting your feet or you're looking in other places apart from the one that you are supposed to be in. *An underlying assumption of a number of movements is the idea of representation, and utility: But your own interest has been in the idea of the non-representative individual and in his relationship to non-utility and things which are useless. This is perhaps one of the reasons why Nights of Labour was not accepted in its time, because both these categories are crucial for the labour historian and the philosopher. But given the changes that have taken place in the last 30 years, are we now in a position to relook or think about how the figure of the non-representative individual and the idea of non-utility are now opening up possibilities today? * This is very difficult to answer, because what made it possible for me to write this book was the context of 1968 and the things that happened around '68. It was precisely because a lot of the things that were thought impossible had become possible, and one of the impulses when I began my research was the fact that in '68 there were meetings in factories between students and workers. I was surprised by the kind of questions that were put forward by the workers. They were not unionists, and in that sense they were not representative individuals. But it did show that they had a number of strange preoccupations and strange interests and concerns which were not the normal concerns of workers, or least their leaders. So on the one hand there was an actuality of what I was dealing with in the book, but when the book came out 13 years later, the Socialist Party had already taken over power and the context had entirely changed. It was no more intelligible, and old categories were coming back. There was a certain kind of social science that had become dominant. There was very little concern with philosophy and everything had taken an empirical turn. There were two ways of thinking about the worker at that time: you were either a part of the indistinguishable mass of workers or you were the representative of workers, and you either represented this faction or the other. It was therefore impossible for them to grapple with this kind of material and with the range of non-representative individual that I was talking about in my book. What was impossible for them to think about was what symbolic rupture means. In '68 it was easier to think of what symbolic rupture meant – when people start talking about things that were not supposed to be their business – but it was no more intelligible in '81. And now I think it is possible to understand it because in '81, when the book came out, the Socialist Party was taking more or less a straightforward Marxism. There was this idea of the class as the totality and a movement. And we know intellectually what came after that. It was the era of postmodernism and skepticism where there was a sentiment that the entire world was now headed towards a global petit bourgeoisie of mean people, and the idea was that there was no possibility of any subversion. So over a period of time people have begun to appreciate what I was saying. And our conditions changed with the so-called crisis. People are now again beginning to feel that perhaps the capitalist machine is not eternal. So what seems to have changed now is the possibility of understanding the idea of time in an anti-evolutionist manner, and the destiny of historical necessity. And at the same time, it is possible to understand that those individual destinies mean some form of strong symbolic break. *What would constitute the archives of new labour, where days and nights are exchanged, through labour. Nights are precisely when one engages in labour, and the day is when one sleeps? * What is different now of course is that the internet exists, so a lot of thoughts and writings that would have entirely disappeared in other contexts can now remain, be written, be exchanged. The archive that I worked with is of course a very little part of what the workers were writing. Now there are many more channels that people can write in and go through. So the question might be not about whether people can express themselves, but how the self-expression is related to the idea of dissent and subversion, and how is this related to official dissent or official subversion because the problem now is not self-expression any longer. All of this itself is now categorized, and it is now more difficult to think of this kind of an archive of dissent. So I'm not sure if I can answer, but probably for people who work through the night and sleep during the day, there is the same problem. Being able to spare a part of the day and to escape this kind of cycle and to find forms of practices and expression. *One of the lines that touched me the most form the book was "What if the truest sorrow lay not in being able to enjoy the false ones". This line speaks to me about ways in which we can move from the pedantic and pedagogic impulses of many movements of solidarity which relates to marginalized subjects, not through subjectivity but through piety. * Finding pleasure in sorrow, finding pleasure in pain is indeed the very definition of a certain form of aesthetic pleasure. For instance, the very definition of classical tragedy is precisely a certain form of performance which deals with painful events, but which at the same time is destined to bring about pleasure for people. But it also means that in the classical order only people of privilege, or people of leisure and culture are able to enjoy such sorrows and to take pleasure in pain. What was important in the 1830s in the experience of the workers was the fact that they were living at a time of the great romantic poets and writers. These poets were for example writing about sorrow, the sorrow of being born, the sorrow of having nothing – no place in society, no place in the world. At the same time it was pleasure, the pleasure to write those lines or those verses about the sorrow of being born, the sorrow of having no place in society etc, and what was interesting for me was the way in which those workers could take up this paradoxical pleasure. Because, of course, they had a place in society, and what was difficult for them was to be in the other place, so it was important in a way for them to escape their place, and to play precisely the part of those who had no place, and to share the sorrow of those who had no place and nothing to do in society. What I also tried to say was, the very definition of proletarian – it is an old Latin word – which at the beginning had nothing to do with factory and work, and it only referred to people who had children, or people who are only able to reproduce life, or people who were really attached to what Agamben would call bare life. So it was quite important for them, I think, to rephrase the condition of people who were doomed to the mere production of life, and to rephrase each life as a kind romanticist sorrow – what a pity I was born in the world that had no place for me. The important thing is the possibility to exchange one sorrow for another, and in a sense the pleasure in literature and culture is the ability to exchange one sorrow for another sorrow. From kokopeli at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 01:48:49 2009 From: kokopeli at gmail.com (Sujata & Samantak) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 01:48:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Invitation to an exhibition on Printing and Book Production in Bengal In-Reply-To: <556b1d6b0902121217v19767066kddd1261c6db20a1d@mail.gmail.com> References: <556b1d6b0902121215j1e3e55f3g333fd97562b7d6ff@mail.gmail.com> <556b1d6b0902121217v19767066kddd1261c6db20a1d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <556b1d6b0902121218x4491adedm8c6d516f554689b1@mail.gmail.com> An exhibition on *Printing and Book Production in Bengal* is being organized by the School of Cultural Texts and Records, Jadavpur University, in collaboration with the Indian Council for Cultural Relations and British Council, East India, It will be open from 11 am to 7 pm on all days from 15 February to 21 February 2009 at the Rabindranath Tagore Centre, 9A Ho Chi Minh Sarani, Kolkata. You are cordially invited. Please bring anyone who might be interested. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Feb 12 20:08:02 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:38:02 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] From the newspaper. In-Reply-To: <24748b497ee4978cfcf7c8b53f3644c8@sarai.net> References: <44EDBD72-06E8-4E71-8A39-D2008C145024@sarai.net> <65be9bf40902110630q3cfd1014lf3e085d903087c6d@mail.gmail.com> <24748b497ee4978cfcf7c8b53f3644c8@sarai.net> Message-ID: <65be9bf40902120638m5bf4947bh437cd5622ed2a480@mail.gmail.com> Dear Jeebesh >I hope you are not proposing a "steady state" precariousness beyond all events.> Maybe I am. Maybe because I would like to think that in so far as interaction of a human being with another goes we cannot entirely rule out precarity. I would not articulate this precarity as 'beyond all events' though but rather I would locate it within the agency of all human beings. Here when I talk about precarity, I refer to the idea of precarity in general rather than a specific reading of precarity with respect to work as I meant in my earlier mail. The 'sense of fluctuation' that you refer to is perhaps what marx term as 'oscillation' again and again in his works. Fluctuation is more widely used now to describe the oscillation of stocks, for instance. You are right in a way, because I cannot think of precarity without fluctuation. I was trying to point towards a view that all this 'now and then' analysis is perhaps an incongruous conjecture. Maybe because 'chaotic inflation' exists in some form, we just have to find a way to not discard it. Regards Taha From yasir.media at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 06:23:40 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?windows-1256?B?eWFzaXIgfu3HINPR?=) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 01:53:40 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear In-Reply-To: <190806.74995.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <222708.90849.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <5af37bb0902110542x5ec41d29i6318231e9b8d1a55@mail.gmail.com> <190806.74995.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0902121653t4438e4b9td515bee4e2a03592@mail.gmail.com> I seriously doubt it is ''islamic''. it is simply political and a political fringe, related to other events iin the region, primarily the 80's are unthinkable in afghanistan pakistan and kashmir without the US and Soviet games in afghanistan. it is not possible to separate them. does that make any solution unfeasible and defeated from the beginning once again. best On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 1:59 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > As far as 'sandwiched' or 'bun kabaabed' Afghanistan, Pakistan and India > are concerned, the only thing stringing them together is Islamic Terrorism. > > Kshmendra > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* yasir ~يا سر > *To:* sarai list > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 11, 2009 5:42:26 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear > > thats a half callous statement if there is no mention of the nature of > the indian army's presence in kashmir, like the pk army's actions such > as aerial bombings in fata. and of course afghanistan pakistan and > india are strung together in a sandwich, a south asian a bun kebab. > > > > On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: > > What Pakistan and Pakistanis and their supporters in Kashmir did to > Kashmir, is now being done in Swat, Pakistan by it's own Pakistanis. > > > > Kshmendra > > > > > > "Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear" > > By Sher Baz Khan > > Tuesday, 03 Feb, 2009 > > > > (MINGORA: The road to Swat used to be a byword for breathtaking beauty. > Although it remains the most picturesque in the country, it now conjures up > fear and lurking danger.) > > The journey upwards from Mardan these days is forbidding. The entire > route is a picture of utter desolation. Fear of the unknown has overtaken a > place fabled for its fertile fields and majestic mountains. > > Even a flying visit is enough to fill one with a sense of foreboding that > religious extremists would overrun the valley before long. > > Most people, especially those living in urban areas, seem to have lost > the will to live. > > Things started taking an ugly turn in July 2007 after the then NWFP chief > minister Shamsul Mulk called in paramilitary forces to take on militants > fired by Maulana Fazlullah's inflammatory rhetoric. > > But the decision seems to have rebounded on the government, for now at > least. The Maulana's followers hold sway over no less than 80 per cent of > the Swat valley. > > The Army is into the third phase of an operation that has seen the > state's writ shrinking by the day. Of late the Taliban have made inroads > into even settled areas, such as, Mardan, Takhtbai, Shergarh, and almost the > entire Malakand Agency. > > Taliban are spreading their message in the same way as they did, and > still do, in Swat. The medium of the message is fear. In fact, fear is the > message. > > The moment I entered the region, I was struck by unmistakable signs of a > place steadily turning its back on the outside world. Institution after > institution is falling to the Taliban. > > Non-combatants have a stark choice: seek refuge in other places or accept > the diktat of Maulana Fazlullah. > > I managed to strike conversations with some Swatis, albeit after much > persuasion. > > Abdullah Khan, a draper, narrated the ordeal of his brother, Rauf Khan, > especially his treatment by a Rawalpindi-based psychiatrist. > > 'Rauf saw the beheading of a man in a butcher shop by militants. Since > that day he either laughs loudly or sheds tears in silence,' Abdullah said. > > A stroll through Mingora's main marketplace brought us face to face with > misery. A number of people poured their hearts out to us. > > 'The thunder of bombs, rockets, grenades and whatnot linger in our ears.' > > 'Go to the psychiatrists of Peshawar and Rawalpindi and ask them how many > children, men and women from Swat they are treating these days. I bet the > number will baffle you,' said Ajmal Khan, a college student. > > The locals alleged that the military operation had killed more > non-combatants than militants. > > The economic fallout of the conflict is ominous. Most of the 1,000 hotels > have gone out of business. The rent-a-car business is also dying out. > > Shops dealing in CDs and operators of cable television have folded up > after Maulana Fazlullah's warnings. > > Barber shops have put up notices that they would not shave off beards as > the Taliban have told them not to do so. > > A glitzy plaza caught my eye with its elegant shops, but sadly there were > no shoppers. > > 'Women are not allowed to enter the premises unless they are accompanied > by men,' read a banner fluttering over the entrance to the mall. > > A number of tailors said they had been told not to let women enter their > shops. > > 'The upper and middle classes are leaving the valley and settling down > elsewhere,' said Aleem Jan, a tailor making women's suits. He is among many > who are planning to move to either Mardan or Peshawar. > > Advertisement hoardings carrying pictures of women are disallowed. > > Faces of women in ads are blackened or deformed. > > A building housing the court is empty of lawyers and litigants as Taliban > have decreed that the existing judicial order is un-Islamic. They have set > up 73 sharia courts to administer 'speedy justice'. > > These courts summon people on phone, threatening violators with death. > > And speedy justice it is indeed. They settle cases within a couple of > days. Hence they are getting popular. > > 'A summon from the court of Fazlullah is like a death warrant. No one > dare disobey it,' said Jamil Ahmed, a lawyer. > > Although he favoured the existing judicial system, he was all praise for > the sharia courts as they decide cases in no time. > > Jamil cited the example of a woman whose plea for dissolution was decided > the other day by a local court. The matter was lingering for the past 22 > years. > > She had applied for dissolution of marriage at the age of 21 and now she > is 43. > > The president of the Swat Bar Association, Aftab Alam, is against a > parallel judiciary. But he too said judges should try to dispose of cases in > 'reasonable time' to undercut the Taliban courts. > > Only two of the 14 policewomen who worked in the district court take the > trouble to report for duty these days. But they wear veils and keep a low > profile, mostly hiding themselves behind bushes. > > Almost all the legislators belonging to the ruling Awami National Party > have fled from Swat. The exception is Afzal Khan Lala. All of them are on > the Taliban's hit list. > > > > > > > http://www.dawn.net/wps/wcm/connect/Dawn%20Content%20Library/dawn/news/pakistan/nwfp/tourist-heaven-turns-into-valley-of-fear-ha > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > From yasir.media at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 06:36:48 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?windows-1256?B?eWFzaXIgfu3HINPR?=) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 02:06:48 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Is anyone thinking about boycotting Pakistan? Conversations In-Reply-To: <738604.77188.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <5af37bb0902110533l3ec5f565uab97d225c99e5101@mail.gmail.com> <738604.77188.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0902121706n472c450ey30ac070a55960747@mail.gmail.com> http://www.kashmiri-cc.ca/un/ plebians From javedmasoo at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 10:43:41 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (M Javed) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 10:43:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Gujarati origins of Valentine's Day Message-ID: In spite of what you have been told by everyone, the truth is that Valentine's Day originated hundreds of years ago, in India, and to top it all, in Gujarat !! It is a well known fact that Gujarati men, specially the Patels, continually mistreat and disrespect their wives (Patelianis). One fine day, it happened to be the 14th day of February, one brave Pateliani, having had enough "torture" by her husband, finally chose to rebel by beating him up with a Velan (rolling pin), also called belan. Yes....the same Velan which she used daily, to make chapattis for him....only this time, instead of the dough, it was the husband who was flattened. This was a momentous occasion for all Gujarati women and a revolt soon spread, like wild fire, with thousands of housewives beating up their husbands with the Velan. There was an outburst of moaning "chapatti-ed" husbands all over Anand and Amdavad. The Patel men-folk quickly learnt their lesson and started to behave more respectfully with their Patelianis. Thereafter, on 14th February, every year, the womenfolk of Gujarat would beat up their husbands, to commemorate that eventful day. The wives having the satisfaction of beating up their husbands with the Velan and the men having the supreme joy of submitting to the will of the women they loved. Soon the Gujju men realised that in order to avoid this ordeal they need to present gifts to their wives....they brought flowers and sweetmeats. Hence the tradition began. As Gujarat fell under the influence of Western culture, that day was called 'Velan time' day. The ritual soon spread to Britain and many other Western countries, specifically, the catch words 'Velan time!'. Of course in their foreign tongues, it was first anglicized to 'Velantime' and then to 'Valentine'. And thereafter, 14th of February, came to be known as Valentine's Day! From c.anupam at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 10:44:30 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 10:44:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India In-Reply-To: <426636.22503.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <341380d00902102206n6658ce1av6d91b914e76cacd2@mail.gmail.com> <426636.22503.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <341380d00902122114y33755a3eo6ee475b535ce9a8b@mail.gmail.com> dear kshmendra, your very line that indian muslims should ask al-qaeda to stop terror attacks is problemmatic. hindu groups were responsible for the samjhauta express attacks as stated by police officials. are hindus ready to apologise and appeal to bajrang dal to stop the distribution of trishuls that has been happening in Orissa through Gujarat for killing muslims, christians and running various rackets, urge that they should stop doing this? the aman-shanti mail clearly stated that they dont want pakistani agencies to probe into samjhauta blasts saying we (indians which includes me and you) are quite capable of solving it ourselves. where as we (indians including me and you) dont mind FBI and Mossad coming here and solving 26/11, then also pointing severe discrepancies in our intelligence and policing. again, apologies for the delay and being unclear about my statements. regards anupam On 2/12/09, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > Dear Anupam > > Would you please clarify who exactly is the "YOU" and the "YOUR" in your > words : > > "Yes, but you prefer mossad and FBI coming over as your security agencies > are > not adequately equipped to investigate any case." > > Thanks > > Kshmendra > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* anupam chakravartty > *To:* sarai list > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 11, 2009 10:06:23 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting > and threatening India > > dear aman, shanti, peace and other such things, > > i would have supported this appeal had it not used these words: > > "Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its > allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world." > > why do indian muslims always have to give a certificate that they are > clean? > why? what is the difference between al-qaeda and you? both of you judging > the plight of the identities ignoring the fact that conflicts are directed > against weaker sections. > > and then you go on to say: > > The claim that "Indian Muslims are persecuted by Hindus, thus > world's Muslims need to save them". No, Thank you. We don't need the > outside saviors. > > Yes, but you prefer mossad and FBI coming over as your security agencies > are > not adequately equipped to investigate any case. Dont you? > > with best wishes, > > anupam > > > > On 2/11/09, Aman Shanti wrote: > > > > Dear friends > > Please see this news item, and also our appeal below. Kindly support > > our appeal by sending the message across to many friends so that a > > better sense prevails in this world: > > > > > > > http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/PoliticsNation/Al_Qaeda_threatens_to_attack_India_for_the_first_time/articleshow/4109243.cms > > ------ > > > > Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its > > allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world. > > Islam does not approve the killing of innocent people. Peace-loving > > Muslims must join hands to convince these extremist elements to desist > > from their path of terror. Here is an appeal (which is also available > > on facebook) that needs your support: > > > > Indian Muslims Against Terrorism > > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=124494910211 > > > > Why only Indian Muslims – everyone should be against terrorism. Yes, > > true - but this group has a certain mandate that related mostly to > > Indian Muslims (although all others are welcome to join and > > participate in this forum). We wish to focus on a few specific points > > that are important to address the issue of regional terrorism. There > > are two basic claims (made by some), which we want to address here: > > > > 1. The claim that "Indian Muslims are persecuted by Hindus, thus > > world's Muslims need to save them". No, Thank you. We don't need the > > outside saviors. > > > > 2. The claim that "now there are home-bred Muslim terrorists in India > > that need to be nabbed." Ok, if this is true, then please involve > > sincere and peace-loving Indian Muslims in the search for such > > extremist elements in India's Muslim localities, instead of randomly > > arresting and killing them in encounters. > > > > The above two points are detailed here: > > > > (1) There is an assumption or discourse coming out of some Muslim > > countries (such as Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia and others) > > that "Muslims in India are being victimized and tortured by the Hindus > > (for example in Gujarat, Kashmir, Ayodhya etc.), and since they are in > > great danger and helpless in the hands of Hindu extremists, it is the > > duty of Muslims all over the world to go and save them, and revenge > > their killings and persecution, by terrorizing the Hindus and damaging > > the economic might of India." It has been reported that such discourse > > is part of the training given to the terrorists who allegedly carry > > out attacks in India. While we don't know for sure if the "terrorists" > > are given such propaganda, but we assume that many Muslims outside > > India may certainly have such an impression about India, as one can > > see in some of the media in the Muslim world. > > > > We agree that Muslims in India have been subjected to a lot of > > violence, torture, prejudice and injustice at various times, probably > > in the same way as other minorities like dalits (low-caste Hindus), > > tribals, and women etc. have been treated. But we wish to convey to > > the "Islamic world" that WE DO NOT NEED THE HELP OF SAVIOURS FROM > > OUTSIDE India to fight our struggles. (By struggle, we don't mean > > violent revenge for the injustice, but a simple struggle for survival, > > and recourse to the law, which luckily is not hopeless in India). > > Muslims have been living in India for last one millennium, sometimes > > peacefully and sometimes in conflict, but most of the times trying to > > carve out ways to co-exist with fellow Indians, and make India a > > progressive country. The contribution of Muslims to the progress of > > India need not be repeated here. The bottom-line is: They cannot go > > anywhere else – India is their home, and they have to struggle here > > like everyone else. So, please don't meddle into our affairs. > > > > This plea is especially for those powerful institutions/organizations > > in countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan who deliberately support > > terrorism and violence against India and Hindus. You don't realize > > that every time there is a terrorist attack in India, although a lot > > of non-Muslims get killed or affected, but the ultimate loss is that > > of Indian Muslims. They are the ones who are seen more and more as > > culprits and a subject of hate and prejudice. It is our children (with > > Muslim names) who are taunted in Indian schools as "Pakistanis", and > > it is we who cannot rent a house in a mainstream colony because of our > > Muslim tag, all because of you. So, our Islamic brothers, YOU ARE NOT > > HELPING US come out of our suffering at all. You are actually pushing > > us further into a furnace by carrying out the terrorist attacks on > > "Hindus". We request and plead you to have mercy on this beautiful > > country and the world, and stop your senseless jihad. If you are told > > that you will to go to heaven (and get houris) when you die for the > > cause of Islam, you are highly mistaken and misled. You will surely > > burn in hell for harming innocent people. This world is not only for > > Muslims – it is for everyone; whatever religion or culture they may > > follow. So, live and let live. > > > > (2) The above message was meant for the "terrorists" infiltrating from > > outside India and their supporters/sympathizers. And now for the > > "home-grown" breed of terrorists. After the horrific 9/11 attacks, it > > was reported by many that among the Muslim terrorists operating all > > over the world, there are actually no Indian Muslims involved. > > (Although Indian media and intelligence department had been claiming > > since many years that Muslim madrasas are the breeding grounds of > > terrorism, but not a single Indian madrasa has so far been found to be > > involved in such activity). Every one was happy and proud about the > > news of India Muslims' non-involvement in terrorism. But suddenly, > > after the 2002 Gujarat pogrom, it was reported that Muslims residing > > in India are becoming terrorists too, and many of them highly > > educated-ones (engineers, doctors, IT professionals, etc.). They use > > new technology of Internet, cell-phones and deadly explosive material > > supplied by their counterparts from across the border. > > > > Subsequently, hundreds of young boys from Muslim localities have been > > arrested and tortured by the Indian police, some even killed in > > encounters. But most of them so far have only been accused and almost > > none ultimately convicted or punished for an act of terrorism, due to > > a lack of substantial evidence against them. Most Muslims and some > > human rights activists argue that those arrested or killed Muslim boys > > have nothing to do with terrorist activities and have been framed > > wrongly. After seeing the adverse role of the police in recent > > incidents such as an encounter at Batla House (Delhi) in September > > 2008 where 2 such accused (and a police inspector) were killed, the > > Muslim community has lost all faith in the police and intelligence > > agencies, fearing that due to their prejudice they could arrest and > > kill any Muslim at will in their war against terror. Their > > investigations are not transparent, their proofs are not convincing, > > and their encounters with terrorists look stage-managed. > > > > However, such a reaction from Muslims is also considered by some as a > > "denial mode", and it is suggested (especially by the mainstream > > media) that Muslims need to come out of this mode and accept the > > reality that home-bred terrorists do exist in the community, > > especially since those who carried out the recent blasts (in 2008) did > > claim that they are "home-bred" terrorists. If the internal Muslims > > are truly involved in such activities, and if we are serious about > > nabbing and punishing them, it would be good for the peace-loving > > Muslims themselves to come forward and make a strategy to help > > eradicate this menace, rather than to leave it only to the > > state-forces. Here is some advices worth considering: > > > > It is accepted by the media and the police that all Muslims are not > > terrorists, but some Muslims do resort to extremism and violence, and > > that the peace-loving intelligentsia among the Muslim community should > > take responsibility to root out the bad elements. This is often > > repeated on every news channel and newspaper after every attack: > > Secular and elite Muslims need to sift out the extremist elements in > > their community. Well, no right thinking Muslim can deny this > > responsibility and there are many who are eagerly ready to play that > > role. But terrorism or extremist elements of the society cannot be > > eradicated by only their efforts, if the govt. and the police > > themselves have been unable to do so. They need the same logistical > > support and resources to bring out any change in the community, which > > the authorities use. In fact, a more practical idea today would be an > > active coordination between the intelligence agencies, the police, the > > judiciary and the responsible people in the Muslim community. But for > > that to happen, the first and foremost requirement is for the > > officials to TRUST THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY. It is a widely known fact > > that the number and ratio of Muslims in Indian security forces, > > police, intelligence, ministries and other important institutions is > > very abysmal – at least not proportionate to their population. > > Moreover, in the war against the terror, the authorities never talk to > > the responsible people from the community leave aside involving them > > actively. > > > > A specific recent case that can serve as an example: > > > > Take the case of the recent police-terrorist encounter at Jamia Nagar, > > Delhi. The Delhi Police (and its Special Cell) not only did not inform > > any of the local citizens of the area before or during the operation > > (while they gave prior information to the media), but also made no > > effort to communicate to the frightened local residents afterwards > > (even during their further arrests of youngsters from the locality), > > while the theories of the encounter being fake were spreading in the > > locality. Their encounter of 19th September 2008 was like a very > > specialized surgical operation done on the body without giving it > > anesthesia or stitching it back, or allowing it to heal. This simply > > shows that they either look at the entire community with prejudice and > > suspicion (of harbouring the terror within), or they are not genuinely > > interested in uprooting the nuisance of terror, and only want to > > continue showing to the world that Muslim terrorists exist. They > > further infuriated many Muslims the next day by showcasing the three > > arrested suspects to the media by covering their faces/heads in the > > stereotypical pink Arab scarves, which is a clichéd symbol of orthodox > > Muslims or Palestinian extremists. > > > > If the authorities start trusting the community and seriously involve > > them in uprooting the internal terrorism, it may show better results > > than secret raids and encounters. Some residents of Batla House > > gathered outside the encounter site the next day said "even if there > > were terrorists holed up in the flat, with weapons, there was a way to > > peacefully flush them out. After all they were not holding any > > hostages. The police knew their location in advance. It could have > > taken some neighbours into confidence, emptied the entire > > neighbourhood, blocked all exit paths from the flat, and then waited > > (even if for days) until the boys got fed up or famished, and > > surrendered. There were lots of possibilities, if there was a will." > > What is required today is a confidence building between the police and > > the people, and some kind citizen's initiatives or neighbourhood-watch > > schemes, (which already exist in some of the posh areas of Indian > > towns). > > > > The smaller towns (such as Azamgarh) or ghettoized localities (such as > > Batla House) in the cities, where such initiatives are required more, > > are unfortunately left to rot by our civic authorities. They could be > > the breeding grounds of a lot of anti-social elements, but the > > authorities are equally responsible for their sorry state. Thus, a > > long-term solution to the mushrooming of internal terror is possible > > only with a multi-pronged approach, the first requirement of which is > > to eradicate the corruption and communal bias in the police > > department, and make them people-friendly. They need to involve senior > > and serious citizens of a locality to nab the likely culprits of > > terror in their area. But this effort should not mean vigilance and > > security measures so strict that they affect the privacy and trust > > between people in a locality. > > ==== > > > > Please join our facebook group to participate in this campaign: > > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=124494910211 > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From c.anupam at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 11:50:42 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 11:50:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Posted in Pakistani Newspaper-ALERT In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70902120211t4ad148faq539409a1ac98e4ab@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70902120211t4ad148faq539409a1ac98e4ab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00902122220w75a3e841i13d3d20b2ce6ade7@mail.gmail.com> oh what a coincidence! this is in the same spirit (or possibly in reaction) to the 5000-year old Hindu project of the RSS and VHP. and, as i am from assam and having grown up in areas near barpeta and udalguri, these kinds of flags or symbols doesnt mean a pakistan. it was a symbol for the muslim refugee camp who were fleeing the villages when riots broke out in the region. these kinds of flag are seen every where in Gujarat when riots break out. the sickle shaped moon and a star in the green background is not owned by pakistan. pawan would you mind forwarding this reply to your friend. regards and best wishes anupam On 2/12/09, Pawan Durani wrote: > Mail from a Friend > > ----- Forwarded Message ---- > *From:* > *Sent:* Thursday, 12 February, 2009 5:00:11 PM > *Subject:* Posted in Pakistani Newspaper > > Posted in Pakistani newspaper where they r showing entire India as > Pakistani > country (And Maharashtra as MUSLIMABAD) by 2012 & 2020 . > these are the links > > map in 2012 : PAKISTAN MAP IN 2012 > > > http://express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwindow.aspx?newsID=1100533603&Issue=NP_LHE&Date=20081203 > > and then in 2020 : Pakistan map in 2020 > > http://express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwindow.aspx?newsID=1100533604&Issue=NP_LHE&Date=20081203 > > > Other ref: http://bengalgenocide.com/mughalistan.php > > > Recently there was an incident of Pakistani flag being hoisted in Assam.. > http://videos.indiatimes.com//videoshow/3563071.cms? > > > Dec 2008 there was a Pakistani flag hoisted in Karnataka.. > and in three places in Assam in Oct 2008.. > http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=143736 > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From santhosh.kanipayur at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 15:29:30 2009 From: santhosh.kanipayur at gmail.com (Santhosh Kumar) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 15:29:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Pink Condom Campaign In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70902112053v14c70f81o8a17306ecbcbb461@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70902112053v14c70f81o8a17306ecbcbb461@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <19d498870902130159p59200f34pe8d8efb6d76e1d82@mail.gmail.com> It is lucky that this Sriram Sene was not there during the time of Sri Krishna and Gopikas! And when Hanuman met Sita alone under Asoka tree in Lanka and the day was not Valentine's day Santhosh On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Pawan Durani wrote: > Just swa this blog , you may have a look too > > http://www.thepinkcondomcampaign.blogspot.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 18:58:14 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 18:58:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Posted in Pakistani Newspaper-ALERT In-Reply-To: <341380d00902122220w75a3e841i13d3d20b2ce6ade7@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70902120211t4ad148faq539409a1ac98e4ab@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00902122220w75a3e841i13d3d20b2ce6ade7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902130528x19462955ka66ac00584971376@mail.gmail.com> Dear Anupam , I have not read what the 5000 year old project of RSS or VHP is and neither do i intend to. However , i must remind you that last 14th August only Pakistan flags were raised in Assam and that was shown in almost all TV channels . Yes, it was not an Islamic flag but a Pakistani flag. Since I was born in Kashmir , i can recognise Pakistani flag better than the Chief Justice of Pakistan supreme court. If you dont know about Pakistani Flag hoisting in Assam , you live in denial. Regards Pawan On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 11:50 AM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > oh what a coincidence! this is in the same spirit (or possibly in reaction) > to the 5000-year old Hindu project of the RSS and VHP. > > and, as i am from assam and having grown up in areas near barpeta and > udalguri, these kinds of flags or symbols doesnt mean a pakistan. it was a > symbol for the muslim refugee camp who were fleeing the villages when riots > broke out in the region. these kinds of flag are seen every where in > Gujarat > when riots break out. the sickle shaped moon and a star in the green > background is not owned by pakistan. pawan would you mind forwarding this > reply to your friend. > > regards and best wishes > anupam > > On 2/12/09, Pawan Durani wrote: > > > Mail from a Friend > > > > ----- Forwarded Message ---- > > *From:* > > *Sent:* Thursday, 12 February, 2009 5:00:11 PM > > *Subject:* Posted in Pakistani Newspaper > > > > Posted in Pakistani newspaper where they r showing entire India as > > Pakistani > > country (And Maharashtra as MUSLIMABAD) by 2012 & 2020 . > > these are the links > > > > map in 2012 : PAKISTAN MAP IN 2012 > > > > > > > http://express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwindow.aspx?newsID=1100533603&Issue=NP_LHE&Date=20081203 > > > > and then in 2020 : Pakistan map in 2020 > > > > > http://express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwindow.aspx?newsID=1100533604&Issue=NP_LHE&Date=20081203 > > > > > > Other ref: http://bengalgenocide.com/mughalistan.php > > > > > > Recently there was an incident of Pakistani flag being hoisted in Assam.. > > http://videos.indiatimes.com//videoshow/3563071.cms? > > > > > > Dec 2008 there was a Pakistani flag hoisted in Karnataka.. > > and in three places in Assam in Oct 2008.. > > http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=143736 > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 19:02:53 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 19:02:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Omar Abdullah barred from performing Umrah due to marrying a non-muslim (Sikh) woman In-Reply-To: <6353c690902120644v1d151e08x40f9ac1d3dc7d3d8@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690902120644v1d151e08x40f9ac1d3dc7d3d8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902130532l4f1507d2w853e16079ad5ff0e@mail.gmail.com> Arent there many Saudi prince who have married non muslims ? On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 8:14 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Omar Abdullah barred from performing Umrah due to marrying a non-muslim > (Sikh) woman > > Shabir Ibn Yusuf Thursday, 12 February 2009 > > SRINAGAR: The Saudi Arabia government has denied permission to Chief > Minister Omar Abdullah for performing the Umrah. His martial status has > been cited the cause of denial. > > Kashmir grand Mufti says Omar can not perform the Umrah and termed the > decision of Saudi government as landmark decision. > > Omar along with his father and former chief minister Dr Farooq Abdullah was > scheduled to leave for Umrah this month. "He has not been allowed by the > Saudi government," said senior government official. > > According sources in the government the documents for his Umrah were sent > to > Saudi embassy and they informed the Omar they "You are barred" and his non- > Muslim wife has been cited the reason. "The column in which Omar has > written > the status has been encircled," the source said. It needs a mention here > that Omar's wife Payal belongs to Sikh dynasty. > > In Arabic, the word 'Umrah is derived from I'timaar which means a visit. > However, 'Umrah in Islamic terminology, means paying a visit to Ka' bah, > performing Tawaaf (circumambulation) around it, walking between Safaa and > Marwah seven times. A performer of 'Umrah puts off his Ihraam by having his > hair shaved or cut. 'Umrah can be performed along with Hajj and in other > days as well. > > Sources said after the denial Omar visited Ajmer Sharief to pay homage, "He > visited the Ajmer Sharief and paid homage there," the sources added. > > The officials and ministers in government are not ready to comment at all. > "This is personal, I would not comment," said a senior officer adding, > "Please do not quote me." "We are Jammu and Omar Sahib has left somewhere," > he added further. > > One of his ministers in his cabinet termed it strange question and said, > "Please do not ask me this question, ask CM sahib." > > Mufti Bashir-u-Din, the grand Mufti of Kashmir said that Omar can not > perform the Umrah. "He is a Muslim and his wife is not Muslim," he said > adding, "According to Islamic principals he can not and the decision of > Saudi government is a landmark decision." > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Feb 13 19:19:10 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 13:49:10 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-92 Message-ID: <65be9bf40902130549y10e29586v9a4068e26ac81dd7@mail.gmail.com> http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Lead-anti-terror-discourse--Advani-to-Kalam/364547 Lead anti-terror discourse: Advani to Kalam Font Size Suman K Jha Posted: Sep 23, 2008 at 0017 hrs IST NEW DELHI, SEPTEMBER 22: After zeroing in on Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi as the party's mascot for its anti-terror plank, the BJP on Monday hoped that A P J Abdul Kalam would help build a national consensus on Terror and the need to effect stringent anti-terror laws. "I was happy to read media reports about your concern over terrorism, which has assumed such serious dimensions that it has not only gravely imperiled India's national security and national unity but also threatened the safety of the common man... I feel that a person of your eminence can help in elevating the discourse on terrorism to a level where it can be discussed as a national problem requiring broad national consensus unimpaired by narrow electoral considerations," said NDA prime ministerial candidate L K Advani in a letter to the former President. In his recent interventions, Kalam has stressed for a "unified intelligence agency" and a "national mission to eradicate terrorism". "I believe, time has come, apart from our multiple agencies forecasting and handling of the terrorist activities, we need to evolve an aggressive mission called National Campaign to Eradicate Terrorism (NCET), with mission oriented integrated management structure, duly passed as a Bill by Parliament," he had said last week. Kalam also called for a law "to provide stringent punishments and faster justice to the perpetrators of the crime in a time bound manner" and "national citizen ID cards for all". Many of these ideas have been mooted by the BJP in the past. While Advani, as former Union Home Minister, wanted to implement a national ID card scheme for the country, the BJP holds the Centre responsible "for halting Gujarat's crackdown on terror agents by its refusal to give its nod to the GUJCOC Bill, passed by the state Assembly some four years ago". The party in its recent National Executive said that the "Congress was communalising the war on terror." While the BJP chose to look the other way when attempts were being made to give him a second term as President, or when he rooted strongly for the Indo-US nuclear deal more recently, Kalam, nonetheless, has always been the "Ideal Indian Muslim" for the saffron party and the RSS. "Like you and millions of ordinary citizens in the country, I am extremely concerned that an issue of such national and global importance is being ignored by a section of the political class," said Advani in his letter, in an obvious reference to the Congress position on terror. "Therefore, your statement has come as a great relief. It holds out a hope for building a national consensus for initiating effective measures, including stringent laws, against terror. My intention in writing this letter is to request you to lead this initiative in a manner you deem fit. I assure you the cooperation of my party and that of the National Democratic Alliance in this effort," concluded Advani's letter. From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 18:53:42 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 18:53:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Pink Condom Campaign In-Reply-To: <19d498870902130159p59200f34pe8d8efb6d76e1d82@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70902112053v14c70f81o8a17306ecbcbb461@mail.gmail.com> <19d498870902130159p59200f34pe8d8efb6d76e1d82@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902130523x5997a550r375457d0cd6b39f7@mail.gmail.com> Yes Santosh , Those were the 'Satyug' days when even the 'sickulars' as well the 'Jehadis' did not exist. Warm regards Pawan On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Santhosh Kumar < santhosh.kanipayur at gmail.com> wrote: > It is lucky that this Sriram Sene was not there during the time of Sri > Krishna and Gopikas! > And when Hanuman met Sita alone under Asoka tree in Lanka and the day was > not Valentine's day > > Santhosh > > > > On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Pawan Durani >wrote: > > > Just swa this blog , you may have a look too > > > > http://www.thepinkcondomcampaign.blogspot.com/ > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 19:22:33 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 19:22:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Posted in Pakistani Newspaper-ALERT In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70902130528x19462955ka66ac00584971376@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70902120211t4ad148faq539409a1ac98e4ab@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00902122220w75a3e841i13d3d20b2ce6ade7@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70902130528x19462955ka66ac00584971376@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00902130552m6fee9cdekc7bb0c4d9636b444@mail.gmail.com> Dear Pawan, I have a Pakistani, a chinese, even a Bangladeshi, a Mozambique (with two guns in the centre), a Libyan (the plain green), a Jamaican too and recently acquisition is a Flag of an extinct country(Atlantis). If you know the newspersons, please tell them to come my house. They will be given chai and biscuit for covering this story. On a serious note, I dont care what TV channels show. A mere flag doesnt change the histories of people and even if it did it could have been easily manufactured to rouse political opinions. Though i would say that what happened to kashmiris like it happened to several families from north east facing conflict everyday is unfortunate. i would request you not to fall in trappings of manufactured realities and i see this as an apportunity to welcome you to visit assam to see for yourself, what a pack of wolves have left behind while hunting. regards anupam On 2/13/09, Pawan Durani wrote: > > Dear Anupam , > > I have not read what the 5000 year old project of RSS or VHP is and neither > do i intend to. > > However , i must remind you that last 14th August only Pakistan flags were > raised in Assam and that was shown in almost all TV channels . Yes, it was > not an Islamic flag but a Pakistani flag. Since I was born in Kashmir , i > can recognise Pakistani flag better than the Chief Justice of Pakistan > supreme court. > > If you dont know about Pakistani Flag hoisting in Assam , you live in > denial. > > Regards > > Pawan > > > On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 11:50 AM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > >> oh what a coincidence! this is in the same spirit (or possibly in >> reaction) >> to the 5000-year old Hindu project of the RSS and VHP. >> >> and, as i am from assam and having grown up in areas near barpeta and >> udalguri, these kinds of flags or symbols doesnt mean a pakistan. it was a >> symbol for the muslim refugee camp who were fleeing the villages when >> riots >> broke out in the region. these kinds of flag are seen every where in >> Gujarat >> when riots break out. the sickle shaped moon and a star in the green >> background is not owned by pakistan. pawan would you mind forwarding this >> reply to your friend. >> >> regards and best wishes >> anupam >> >> On 2/12/09, Pawan Durani wrote: >> >> > Mail from a Friend >> > >> > ----- Forwarded Message ---- >> > *From:* >> > *Sent:* Thursday, 12 February, 2009 5:00:11 PM >> > *Subject:* Posted in Pakistani Newspaper >> > >> > Posted in Pakistani newspaper where they r showing entire India as >> > Pakistani >> > country (And Maharashtra as MUSLIMABAD) by 2012 & 2020 . >> > these are the links >> > >> > map in 2012 : PAKISTAN MAP IN 2012 >> > >> > >> > >> http://express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwindow.aspx?newsID=1100533603&Issue=NP_LHE&Date=20081203 >> > >> > and then in 2020 : Pakistan map in 2020 >> > >> > >> http://express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwindow.aspx?newsID=1100533604&Issue=NP_LHE&Date=20081203 >> > >> > >> > Other ref: http://bengalgenocide.com/mughalistan.php >> > >> > >> > Recently there was an incident of Pakistani flag being hoisted in >> Assam.. >> > http://videos.indiatimes.com//videoshow/3563071.cms? >> > >> > >> > Dec 2008 there was a Pakistani flag hoisted in Karnataka.. >> > and in three places in Assam in Oct 2008.. >> > http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=143736 >> >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Feb 13 19:22:40 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 13:52:40 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-93 Message-ID: <65be9bf40902130552j387d7fadlcae8f5716abb7054@mail.gmail.com> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Terror_struck_Mumbai_responds/rssarticleshow/3785515.cms The Times of India Terror struck Mumbai responds 2 Dec 2008, 2128 hrs IST, Vasundhara Sanger, TIMESOFINDIA.COM MUMBAI: Six days after the terror strike on Mumbai, the metropolis' numbed citizenry comprising top corporates, bankers and Bollywood actors assembled near the state secretariat on Tuesday in a bid to impel the government to provide fool proof safety to its citizens. A ten point action plan was signed by scores of individuals from all segments of society and the same is to be presented to the governor. Thereafter, the group plans to set out to Delhi by road on the 10th of this month, reaching the capital four days later. The group is determined to meet Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Sonia Gandhi and present them with their demands. "It doesn't end there. We will not keep quiet. We will go back again and again to see what action they have taken," said Aroona Bhat, one of the active members who organised the peaceful demonstration in Mumbai, on Tuesday. "Terrorism Will Not Go Away By Wishing It, We Have To Make It Go Away By Killing It," is what the demonstrators have been screaming. Roughly the ten point programme to be presented to the government of India is: A single federal anti-terror agency - with a significant presence in each city - rapid response and the best equipment money can buy - why was Karkare's bullet-proof (BP) jacket inferior to the NSG BP jacket in this age and time when India pays Rs 5 trillion in taxes? Network the communication and financial data - Post-9/11 the US and UK networked their communication and financial data so that security agencies could check on their computer screens on any terror suspect - India is nowhere near that nor are we even thinking of it. Anticipation of attacks rather than post-facto preparation - When the terrorist started hijacking planes and entering through the Indo-Pak border, post facto we enhanced checking at airports and fenced the border. So he shifted to hotels and the sea route; post facto we shall make all our hotels and sea ports and coastlines secure. When he shifts to malls and micro light aircraft, post facto we shall make malls and the air space more secure and so on... For countering terrorism (as compared to normal policing) we need much higher number/ levels and grades of police/ intelligence infrastructure. Intelligence operatives to population ratio in India is less than 5 per lakh in India compared to above 40 in many countries - this, despite India being beset with multiple types of terror - Islamic, Kashmiri, Hindu, Sikh, north-east and Naxals - much more than only Islamic terror threat for the west, Russia, China etc. We need a tough anti-terror law and the judiciary to act quickly. We kept Maulana Masood Azhar in our jails as an under trial for 6 years and released him to the Kandahar hijackers - he is the current big boss of the LeT in Pakistan. Why did the judiciary take so much time? At that time we had the strictest of laws - TADA. In 2000, post-Kargil a Group of Ministers made a report to realign and resolve India's security infrastructure - red tape has killed it. To get over the red tape, the pm in 2005 announced the Police Mission to reform the police system - red tape killed that too. We need to fill senior level vacancies in IB & RAW. IB and R&AW have suffered 40% vacancies in top level supervisors (IPS officers) for more than a decade now and 50% vacancies in levels of SI and Inspector! Mumbai needs to have a directly elected mayor, who will act as the head of government for the city (and head all the local level organisations like BMC). While statehood (like Delhi) would be ideal, let's start with a directly elected mayor, like London, New York, Shanghai. Massive investment in the training of the police, firemen and citizens with security drills, evacuation and sanitization procedures. Also provide a CCTV network across the city with a coordinated crisis management cell during emergency, colour coded alerts and a media/communication strategy. Many lives could have been saved by a faster and more professional response, such as by the fire department and the police. Training and drills must be undertaken regularly so that people know exactly what to do in an emergency- during the emergency there is no time to think and then start planning or making ad hoc decisions. Implement national ID card project for all citizens. Regular communication and updates - the nation needs to be informed of the progress in implanting this plan. Start with daily/weekly briefings by the home ministry on the total progress in the prior period and action taken, and action to be taken as a formal media brief. Within the next seven days a time line for communicating to the nation: who was responsible; confront with evidence and seek global alignment for action; action for attack and neutralise. A little further down and in the vicinity of last Wednesday's terrors target the Oberoi-Trident hotel at Marine Drive, former sheriff of Mumbai, Nana Chudasma organizsed a solemn gathering where people were asked to pay homage to the slain heroes who were killed fighting the terrorists. Hundreds of grateful Mumbaikars were signing and putting their thoughts on a chain of banner, laid out on the sidewalk. From angshukanta at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 19:34:19 2009 From: angshukanta at gmail.com (Angshukanta Chakraborty) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 14:04:19 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] the liberty of the networked Message-ID: <77aa94900902130604u7df825d0keb476da732afe8a1@mail.gmail.com> Extremely interesting discussion on networked and increasingly technocratic societies http://www.opendemocracy.net/article/email/the-liberty-of-the-networked-part-1 http://www.opendemocracy.net/article/email/the-liberty-of-the-networked-pt-2 On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > > http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Lead-anti-terror-discourse--Advani-to-Kalam/364547 > > Lead anti-terror discourse: Advani to Kalam > > Font Size > Suman K Jha Posted: Sep 23, 2008 at 0017 hrs IST > > NEW DELHI, SEPTEMBER 22: After zeroing in on Gujarat Chief Minister > Narendra Modi as the party's mascot for its anti-terror plank, the BJP > on Monday hoped that A P J Abdul Kalam would help build a national > consensus on Terror and the need to effect stringent anti-terror laws. > > "I was happy to read media reports about your concern over terrorism, > which has assumed such serious dimensions that it has not only gravely > imperiled India's national security and national unity but also > threatened the safety of the common man... I feel that a person of > your eminence can help in elevating the discourse on terrorism to a > level where it can be discussed as a national problem requiring broad > national consensus unimpaired by narrow electoral considerations," > said NDA prime ministerial candidate L K Advani in a letter to the > former President. > > In his recent interventions, Kalam has stressed for a "unified > intelligence agency" and a "national mission to eradicate terrorism". > "I believe, time has come, apart from our multiple agencies > forecasting and handling of the terrorist activities, we need to > evolve an aggressive mission called National Campaign to Eradicate > Terrorism (NCET), with mission oriented integrated management > structure, duly passed as a Bill by Parliament," he had said last > week. Kalam also called for a law "to provide stringent punishments > and faster justice to the perpetrators of the crime in a time bound > manner" and "national citizen ID cards for all". > > > Many of these ideas have been mooted by the BJP in the past. While > Advani, as former Union Home Minister, wanted to implement a national > ID card scheme for the country, the BJP holds the Centre responsible > "for halting Gujarat's crackdown on terror agents by its refusal to > give its nod to the GUJCOC Bill, passed by the state Assembly some > four years ago". The party in its recent National Executive said that > the "Congress was communalising the war on terror." > > While the BJP chose to look the other way when attempts were being > made to give him a second term as President, or when he rooted > strongly for the Indo-US nuclear deal more recently, Kalam, > nonetheless, has always been the "Ideal Indian Muslim" for the saffron > party and the RSS. > > "Like you and millions of ordinary citizens in the country, I am > extremely concerned that an issue of such national and global > importance is being ignored by a section of the political class," said > Advani in his letter, in an obvious reference to the Congress position > on terror. > > "Therefore, your statement has come as a great relief. It holds out a > hope for building a national consensus for initiating effective > measures, including stringent laws, against terror. My intention in > writing this letter is to request you to lead this initiative in a > manner you deem fit. I assure you the cooperation of my party and that > of the National Democratic Alliance in this effort," concluded > Advani's letter. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 17:45:53 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 17:45:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Pink Condom Campaign Message-ID: <6353c690902130415g55255299kac92bd7ab047708b@mail.gmail.com> The Pink Condom Campaign Link - http://www.thepinkcondomcampaign.blogspot.com/ *What is Pink Condom campaign?* This campaign has been started as a response to some self righteous and progressive people who started the *Pink Chaddi * campaign. Their chaddi campaign ends on Valentine's Day of 2009, but this is just a beginning for us. We are more democratic and transparent that the *Pink Chaddi walas*. We don't claim inflated figures of support. There is a poll at the right hand corner of this page, which shows how many people support us, and how many don't! *Why condoms?* Condoms are necessary to save yourself from AIDS and to lead a progressive and secular life. The *Pink Chaddi walas* claim themselves to be pubgoing, loose and forward - a condom will help them maintain being that. *Who are we?* We are the ordinary Hindus, who don't bark on television channels to defend our faith, but we definitely get hurt when some people bark against our faith. We know that not everything is right with Hindu society, and things needs to be improved upon. That's the whole essence of Hindu Dharma or Sanatana Dharma – to constantly change and evolve. We don't need self-righteous sickular (so-called seculars) to reform us. *Why are we anonymous?* Unlike *Pink Chaddi walas*, our intention is not to grab news headlines and appear on Indian and international television (what else do you think sending *chaddis *will achieve?). We are just trying to convey a message – you reap what you sow. *Why this opposition to Pink Chaddi campaign?* Because the campaign tried to unnecessarily implicate an assertive Hindu and RSS (they showed pictures of RSS members in a derogatory way) for Managolore pub attack incident. RSS and Hindus didn't approve of Mangalore incident, still they were demonized, which was result of a mentality which is full of hatred towards Hinduism. *Do we support Sri Ram Sene?* Not at all for beating up women in Mangalore. We know nothing more about them to declare an overall support or opposition. They don't really matter to us. *Do we support RSS?* Yes and No. We support RSS for their social work and for fighting sickulars. We support them because we hate Hindu haters like Christian Missionaries, Jehadi Muslims and Indian Communists. We don't support them if they would want to subjugate ordinary Christians and Muslims. *How can join Pink Condom campaign?* First, click on the poll on right hand corner and express your support (or opposition). You can also join us on orkut and facebook and promote the word, as media surely won't promote us as they did to *Pink Chaddi walas.* Secondly, send pink condoms (if you want to spend money, buy them, or just send them colorful and creative picture of condoms) at following addresses, or call up these people (*Pink Chaddi walas*, their contact numbers and addresses were put up on *Pink Chaddi *blog) to know more: People to call: Benson (9845167575) Areeba (9900569456) Samir Gandhi (9246282223) Kaushik (9703508756) Nithin (9886081269) Divya (9845535406) Nisha (9811893733) Vivek (9845591798) Ratna (9899422513) Padma (99400 25231) Jeny (9840398852) Aniruddh (98840 17695) Addresses: Nisha Susan C/o Tehelka M76, M-Block Market Greater Kailash 2 Ashwini C-Wing, Lake Pleasant Phase-2, Lake Homes Powai (Hand it over to the security guards in Mumbai) Shalini M A1201 Beaumonde Apts Appasaheb Marathe marg Near Chaitanya , opp Tata Motors halfway between siddhivinayak/century mills Prabhadevi – 400025 The Shakti Center/ Corporate Accountability Desk, No: 42 A, I floor,5 Avenue, Besant Nagar, Chennai - 600090 *We will remove the above contact details and names after they are removed from the Pink Chaddi blog* *Why trouble these people?* We are not trying to trouble them. We are just asking you to send them *Pink Condoms*, just like they have decided to send *Pink Chaddis *to *Sri Ram Sene*, unsolicited. We believe that we have equal rights to protest in the same manner as chosen by them. They might be good people, we are not contesting that at all, but we just paying them in the same coin. From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 20:16:43 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 20:16:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Posted in Pakistani Newspaper-ALERT In-Reply-To: <341380d00902130552m6fee9cdekc7bb0c4d9636b444@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70902120211t4ad148faq539409a1ac98e4ab@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00902122220w75a3e841i13d3d20b2ce6ade7@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70902130528x19462955ka66ac00584971376@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00902130552m6fee9cdekc7bb0c4d9636b444@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902130646m5518ceabxc6ff2fd6534b934@mail.gmail.com> Dear Anupam , It's great that you have a a great collection of Flag .But i am sure you dont hoist a Paki flag on 14th Aug. I would surely like to come to Assam , which I anyway do as i like the place and also I have great belief in Kamakhya temple. Atrocities on innocents and civilians are most condemnable and should not be done by those who represent a state. Let us catch up sometimes in Assam , and I would gift you a flag of Panun Kashmir .Yes, we have one for that. Regards Pawan On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 7:22 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Pawan, > > I have a Pakistani, a chinese, even a Bangladeshi, a Mozambique (with two > guns in the centre), a Libyan (the plain green), a Jamaican too and > recently > acquisition is a Flag of an extinct country(Atlantis). If you know the > newspersons, please tell them to come my house. They will be given chai and > biscuit for covering this story. > > On a serious note, I dont care what TV channels show. A mere flag doesnt > change the histories of people and even if it did it could have been easily > manufactured to rouse political opinions. > Though i would say that what happened to kashmiris like it happened to > several families from north east facing conflict everyday is unfortunate. i > would request you not to fall in trappings of manufactured realities and i > see this as an apportunity to welcome you to visit assam to see for > yourself, what a pack of wolves have left behind while hunting. > > regards anupam > > > > On 2/13/09, Pawan Durani wrote: > > > > Dear Anupam , > > > > I have not read what the 5000 year old project of RSS or VHP is and > neither > > do i intend to. > > > > However , i must remind you that last 14th August only Pakistan flags > were > > raised in Assam and that was shown in almost all TV channels . Yes, it > was > > not an Islamic flag but a Pakistani flag. Since I was born in Kashmir , i > > can recognise Pakistani flag better than the Chief Justice of Pakistan > > supreme court. > > > > If you dont know about Pakistani Flag hoisting in Assam , you live in > > denial. > > > > Regards > > > > Pawan > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 11:50 AM, anupam chakravartty < > c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: > > > >> oh what a coincidence! this is in the same spirit (or possibly in > >> reaction) > >> to the 5000-year old Hindu project of the RSS and VHP. > >> > >> and, as i am from assam and having grown up in areas near barpeta and > >> udalguri, these kinds of flags or symbols doesnt mean a pakistan. it was > a > >> symbol for the muslim refugee camp who were fleeing the villages when > >> riots > >> broke out in the region. these kinds of flag are seen every where in > >> Gujarat > >> when riots break out. the sickle shaped moon and a star in the green > >> background is not owned by pakistan. pawan would you mind forwarding > this > >> reply to your friend. > >> > >> regards and best wishes > >> anupam > >> > >> On 2/12/09, Pawan Durani wrote: > >> > >> > Mail from a Friend > >> > > >> > ----- Forwarded Message ---- > >> > *From:* > >> > *Sent:* Thursday, 12 February, 2009 5:00:11 PM > >> > *Subject:* Posted in Pakistani Newspaper > >> > > >> > Posted in Pakistani newspaper where they r showing entire India as > >> > Pakistani > >> > country (And Maharashtra as MUSLIMABAD) by 2012 & 2020 . > >> > these are the links > >> > > >> > map in 2012 : PAKISTAN MAP IN 2012 > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > http://express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwindow.aspx?newsID=1100533603&Issue=NP_LHE&Date=20081203 > >> > > >> > and then in 2020 : Pakistan map in 2020 > >> > > >> > > >> > http://express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwindow.aspx?newsID=1100533604&Issue=NP_LHE&Date=20081203 > >> > > >> > > >> > Other ref: http://bengalgenocide.com/mughalistan.php > >> > > >> > > >> > Recently there was an incident of Pakistani flag being hoisted in > >> Assam.. > >> > http://videos.indiatimes.com//videoshow/3563071.cms? > >> > > >> > > >> > Dec 2008 there was a Pakistani flag hoisted in Karnataka.. > >> > and in three places in Assam in Oct 2008.. > >> > http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=143736 > >> > >> > _________________________________________ > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> > subscribe in the subject header. > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From parthaekka at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 20:20:54 2009 From: parthaekka at gmail.com (Partha Dasgupta) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 20:20:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Pink Condom Campaign In-Reply-To: <6353c690902130415g55255299kac92bd7ab047708b@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690902130415g55255299kac92bd7ab047708b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32144e990902130650t75f69191v25cd01b44c2785f3@mail.gmail.com> Dear Aditya, Just wondering about a few things that are unclear in this blog post: 1. Just how does being progressive & secular lead to AIDS. I think (and hope) I am both, but at 41 haven't got AIDS as yet. Though I think Condoms are a good idea otherwise since India does have a population problem. 2. Seems strange the way the cloak of 'anonymity' has been used to hide. The action has been made in a public forum, yet the author(s) are too scared to "reap what they sow" - something that seems the purpose of the blogs existence !! 3. As a Hindu, haven't yet figured out where the Pink Chaddi blog has gone against 'our faith' - unless there is some hidden religious subtext somewhere that defines sending pink underwear to a man is not suitable Hindu behavior. 4. The goons who went about beating women certainly ware against Hindu culture which is supposed to revere women in many forms. Yet the Pink Condom blog doesn't even have the basic thought of leaving out women's names. Seems I have some very confused Hindu's who don't even dare to name themselves acting as spokespeople for my religion !! Must be me at the end of what's been a long day, but the Pink Condom logic was very convoluted. Guess you're just posting a blog post, so you may not be the person to ask these questions, but since this post was here, responded. Rgds, Partha ................. On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > The Pink Condom Campaign > Link - http://www.thepinkcondomcampaign.blogspot.com/ > > *What is Pink Condom campaign?* > > This campaign has been started as a response to some self righteous and > progressive people who started the *Pink > Chaddi > * campaign. Their chaddi campaign ends on Valentine's Day of 2009, but this > is just a beginning for us. > > We are more democratic and transparent that the *Pink Chaddi walas*. We > don't claim inflated figures of support. There is a poll at the right hand > corner of this page, which shows how many people support us, and how many > don't! > > *Why condoms?* > > Condoms are necessary to save yourself from AIDS and to lead a progressive > and secular life. The *Pink Chaddi walas* claim themselves to be pubgoing, > loose and forward - a condom will help them maintain being that. > > *Who are we?* > > We are the ordinary Hindus, who don't bark on television channels to defend > our faith, but we definitely get hurt when some people bark against our > faith. > > We know that not everything is right with Hindu society, and things needs > to > be improved upon. That's the whole essence of Hindu Dharma or Sanatana > Dharma – to constantly change and evolve. We don't need self-righteous > sickular (so-called seculars) to reform us. > > *Why are we anonymous?* > > Unlike *Pink Chaddi walas*, our intention is not to grab news headlines and > appear on Indian and international television (what else do you think > sending *chaddis *will achieve?). We are just trying to convey a message – > you reap what you sow. > > *Why this opposition to Pink Chaddi campaign?* > > Because the campaign tried to unnecessarily implicate an assertive Hindu > and > RSS (they showed pictures of RSS members in a derogatory way) for > Managolore > pub attack incident. RSS and Hindus didn't approve of Mangalore incident, > still they were demonized, which was result of a mentality which is full of > hatred towards Hinduism. > > *Do we support Sri Ram Sene?* > > Not at all for beating up women in Mangalore. We know nothing more about > them to declare an overall support or opposition. They don't really matter > to us. > > *Do we support RSS?* > > Yes and No. We support RSS for their social work and for fighting > sickulars. > We support them because we hate Hindu haters like Christian Missionaries, > Jehadi Muslims and Indian Communists. We don't support them if they would > want to subjugate ordinary Christians and Muslims. > > *How can join Pink Condom campaign?* > > First, click on the poll on right hand corner and express your support (or > opposition). You can also join us on orkut and facebook and promote the > word, as media surely won't promote us as they did to *Pink Chaddi walas.* > > Secondly, send pink condoms (if you want to spend money, buy them, or just > send them colorful and creative picture of condoms) at following addresses, > or call up these people (*Pink Chaddi walas*, their contact numbers and > addresses were put up on *Pink Chaddi > *blog) > to know more: > > People to call: > > Benson (9845167575) > Areeba (9900569456) > Samir Gandhi (9246282223) > Kaushik (9703508756) > Nithin (9886081269) > Divya (9845535406) > Nisha (9811893733) > Vivek (9845591798) > Ratna (9899422513) > Padma (99400 25231) > Jeny (9840398852) > Aniruddh (98840 17695) > > > Addresses: > > Nisha Susan > C/o Tehelka > M76, M-Block Market > Greater Kailash 2 > > Ashwini > C-Wing, Lake Pleasant > Phase-2, Lake Homes > Powai > (Hand it over to the security guards in Mumbai) > > Shalini M > A1201 > Beaumonde Apts > Appasaheb Marathe marg > Near Chaitanya , opp Tata Motors > halfway between siddhivinayak/century mills > Prabhadevi – 400025 > > The Shakti Center/ Corporate Accountability Desk, > No: 42 A, I > floor,5 Avenue, > Besant Nagar, > Chennai - 600090 > > *We will remove the above contact details and names after they are removed > from the Pink Chaddi blog* > > *Why trouble these people?* > > We are not trying to trouble them. We are just asking you to send them > *Pink > Condoms*, just like they have decided to send *Pink Chaddis *to *Sri Ram > Sene*, unsolicited. We believe that we have equal rights to protest in the > same manner as chosen by them. They might be good people, we are not > contesting that at all, but we just paying them in the same coin. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Partha Dasgupta +919811047132 From indersalim at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 20:46:37 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 20:46:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India In-Reply-To: <341380d00902122114y33755a3eo6ee475b535ce9a8b@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00902102206n6658ce1av6d91b914e76cacd2@mail.gmail.com> <426636.22503.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <341380d00902122114y33755a3eo6ee475b535ce9a8b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70902130716k263b4830i4205e36cc736097f@mail.gmail.com> a little cut and paste on Jean Baudrillard may be it helps expand the point On the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks In contrast to the "non-event" of the Gulf War, in the essay The Spirit of Terrorism he characterised the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center in New York City as the "absolute event." Seeking to understand them as an (ab)reaction to the technological and political expansion of capitalist globalization, rather than as a war of religiously-based or civilization-based warfare, he termed the absolute event and its consequences as follows (p. 11 in the 2002 version): This is not a clash of civilisations or religions, and it reaches far beyond Islam and America, on which efforts are being made to focus the conflict in order to create the delusion of a visible confrontation and a solution based upon force. There is indeed a fundamental antagonism here, but one that points past the spectre of America (which is perhaps the epicentre, but in no sense the sole embodiment, of globalisation) and the spectre of Islam (which is not the embodiment of terrorism either) to triumphant globalisation battling against itself. Baudrillard thus placed the attacks — as accords with his theory of society — in context as a symbolic reaction to the continued expansion of a world based solely upon commodity exchange. This stance was criticised on two counts. Richard Wolin (in The Seduction of Unreason) forcefully accused Baudrillard and Slavoj Zizek, of all but celebrating the terrorist attacks, essentially claiming that the United States of America received what it deserved. Zizek, however, countered that accusation to Wolin's analysis as a form of intellectual barbarism in the journal Critical Inquiry, saying that Wolin fails to see the difference between fantasising about an event and stating that one is deserving of that event. Merrin (in Baudrillard and the Media) argued that Baudrillard's position affords the terrorists a type of moral superiority. In the journal Economy and Society, Merrin further noted that Baudrillard gives the symbolic facets of society unfair privilege above semiotic concerns. Second, authors questioned whether the attacks were unavoidable. Bruno Latour, in Critical Inquiry argued that Baudrillard believed that their destruction was forced by the society that created them, alluding the Towers were "brought down by their own weight". In Latour's view, this was because Baudrillard conceived only of society in terms of a symbolic and semiotic dualism. [edit] On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 10:44 AM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > dear kshmendra, > > your very line that indian muslims should ask al-qaeda to stop terror > attacks is problemmatic. hindu groups were responsible for the samjhauta > express attacks as stated by police officials. are hindus ready to > apologise and appeal to bajrang dal to stop the distribution of > trishuls that has been happening in Orissa through Gujarat for killing > muslims, christians and running various rackets, urge that they should stop > doing this? > > the aman-shanti mail clearly stated that they dont want pakistani agencies > to probe into samjhauta blasts saying we (indians which includes me and > you) are quite capable of solving it ourselves. where as we (indians > including me and you) dont mind FBI and Mossad coming here and solving > 26/11, then also pointing severe discrepancies in our intelligence and > policing. > > again, apologies for the delay and being unclear about my statements. > > regards > anupam > > On 2/12/09, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: >> >> Dear Anupam >> >> Would you please clarify who exactly is the "YOU" and the "YOUR" in your >> words : >> >> "Yes, but you prefer mossad and FBI coming over as your security agencies >> are >> not adequately equipped to investigate any case." >> >> Thanks >> >> Kshmendra >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* anupam chakravartty >> *To:* sarai list >> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 11, 2009 10:06:23 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting >> and threatening India >> >> dear aman, shanti, peace and other such things, >> >> i would have supported this appeal had it not used these words: >> >> "Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its >> allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world." >> >> why do indian muslims always have to give a certificate that they are >> clean? >> why? what is the difference between al-qaeda and you? both of you judging >> the plight of the identities ignoring the fact that conflicts are directed >> against weaker sections. >> >> and then you go on to say: >> >> The claim that "Indian Muslims are persecuted by Hindus, thus >> world's Muslims need to save them". No, Thank you. We don't need the >> outside saviors. >> >> Yes, but you prefer mossad and FBI coming over as your security agencies >> are >> not adequately equipped to investigate any case. Dont you? >> >> with best wishes, >> >> anupam >> >> >> >> On 2/11/09, Aman Shanti wrote: >> > >> > Dear friends >> > Please see this news item, and also our appeal below. Kindly support >> > our appeal by sending the message across to many friends so that a >> > better sense prevails in this world: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/PoliticsNation/Al_Qaeda_threatens_to_attack_India_for_the_first_time/articleshow/4109243.cms >> > ------ >> > >> > Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its >> > allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world. >> > Islam does not approve the killing of innocent people. Peace-loving >> > Muslims must join hands to convince these extremist elements to desist >> > from their path of terror. Here is an appeal (which is also available >> > on facebook) that needs your support: >> > >> > Indian Muslims Against Terrorism >> > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=124494910211 >> > >> > Why only Indian Muslims – everyone should be against terrorism. Yes, >> > true - but this group has a certain mandate that related mostly to >> > Indian Muslims (although all others are welcome to join and >> > participate in this forum). We wish to focus on a few specific points >> > that are important to address the issue of regional terrorism. There >> > are two basic claims (made by some), which we want to address here: >> > >> > 1. The claim that "Indian Muslims are persecuted by Hindus, thus >> > world's Muslims need to save them". No, Thank you. We don't need the >> > outside saviors. >> > >> > 2. The claim that "now there are home-bred Muslim terrorists in India >> > that need to be nabbed." Ok, if this is true, then please involve >> > sincere and peace-loving Indian Muslims in the search for such >> > extremist elements in India's Muslim localities, instead of randomly >> > arresting and killing them in encounters. >> > >> > The above two points are detailed here: >> > >> > (1) There is an assumption or discourse coming out of some Muslim >> > countries (such as Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia and others) >> > that "Muslims in India are being victimized and tortured by the Hindus >> > (for example in Gujarat, Kashmir, Ayodhya etc.), and since they are in >> > great danger and helpless in the hands of Hindu extremists, it is the >> > duty of Muslims all over the world to go and save them, and revenge >> > their killings and persecution, by terrorizing the Hindus and damaging >> > the economic might of India." It has been reported that such discourse >> > is part of the training given to the terrorists who allegedly carry >> > out attacks in India. While we don't know for sure if the "terrorists" >> > are given such propaganda, but we assume that many Muslims outside >> > India may certainly have such an impression about India, as one can >> > see in some of the media in the Muslim world. >> > >> > We agree that Muslims in India have been subjected to a lot of >> > violence, torture, prejudice and injustice at various times, probably >> > in the same way as other minorities like dalits (low-caste Hindus), >> > tribals, and women etc. have been treated. But we wish to convey to >> > the "Islamic world" that WE DO NOT NEED THE HELP OF SAVIOURS FROM >> > OUTSIDE India to fight our struggles. (By struggle, we don't mean >> > violent revenge for the injustice, but a simple struggle for survival, >> > and recourse to the law, which luckily is not hopeless in India). >> > Muslims have been living in India for last one millennium, sometimes >> > peacefully and sometimes in conflict, but most of the times trying to >> > carve out ways to co-exist with fellow Indians, and make India a >> > progressive country. The contribution of Muslims to the progress of >> > India need not be repeated here. The bottom-line is: They cannot go >> > anywhere else – India is their home, and they have to struggle here >> > like everyone else. So, please don't meddle into our affairs. >> > >> > This plea is especially for those powerful institutions/organizations >> > in countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan who deliberately support >> > terrorism and violence against India and Hindus. You don't realize >> > that every time there is a terrorist attack in India, although a lot >> > of non-Muslims get killed or affected, but the ultimate loss is that >> > of Indian Muslims. They are the ones who are seen more and more as >> > culprits and a subject of hate and prejudice. It is our children (with >> > Muslim names) who are taunted in Indian schools as "Pakistanis", and >> > it is we who cannot rent a house in a mainstream colony because of our >> > Muslim tag, all because of you. So, our Islamic brothers, YOU ARE NOT >> > HELPING US come out of our suffering at all. You are actually pushing >> > us further into a furnace by carrying out the terrorist attacks on >> > "Hindus". We request and plead you to have mercy on this beautiful >> > country and the world, and stop your senseless jihad. If you are told >> > that you will to go to heaven (and get houris) when you die for the >> > cause of Islam, you are highly mistaken and misled. You will surely >> > burn in hell for harming innocent people. This world is not only for >> > Muslims – it is for everyone; whatever religion or culture they may >> > follow. So, live and let live. >> > >> > (2) The above message was meant for the "terrorists" infiltrating from >> > outside India and their supporters/sympathizers. And now for the >> > "home-grown" breed of terrorists. After the horrific 9/11 attacks, it >> > was reported by many that among the Muslim terrorists operating all >> > over the world, there are actually no Indian Muslims involved. >> > (Although Indian media and intelligence department had been claiming >> > since many years that Muslim madrasas are the breeding grounds of >> > terrorism, but not a single Indian madrasa has so far been found to be >> > involved in such activity). Every one was happy and proud about the >> > news of India Muslims' non-involvement in terrorism. But suddenly, >> > after the 2002 Gujarat pogrom, it was reported that Muslims residing >> > in India are becoming terrorists too, and many of them highly >> > educated-ones (engineers, doctors, IT professionals, etc.). They use >> > new technology of Internet, cell-phones and deadly explosive material >> > supplied by their counterparts from across the border. >> > >> > Subsequently, hundreds of young boys from Muslim localities have been >> > arrested and tortured by the Indian police, some even killed in >> > encounters. But most of them so far have only been accused and almost >> > none ultimately convicted or punished for an act of terrorism, due to >> > a lack of substantial evidence against them. Most Muslims and some >> > human rights activists argue that those arrested or killed Muslim boys >> > have nothing to do with terrorist activities and have been framed >> > wrongly. After seeing the adverse role of the police in recent >> > incidents such as an encounter at Batla House (Delhi) in September >> > 2008 where 2 such accused (and a police inspector) were killed, the >> > Muslim community has lost all faith in the police and intelligence >> > agencies, fearing that due to their prejudice they could arrest and >> > kill any Muslim at will in their war against terror. Their >> > investigations are not transparent, their proofs are not convincing, >> > and their encounters with terrorists look stage-managed. >> > >> > However, such a reaction from Muslims is also considered by some as a >> > "denial mode", and it is suggested (especially by the mainstream >> > media) that Muslims need to come out of this mode and accept the >> > reality that home-bred terrorists do exist in the community, >> > especially since those who carried out the recent blasts (in 2008) did >> > claim that they are "home-bred" terrorists. If the internal Muslims >> > are truly involved in such activities, and if we are serious about >> > nabbing and punishing them, it would be good for the peace-loving >> > Muslims themselves to come forward and make a strategy to help >> > eradicate this menace, rather than to leave it only to the >> > state-forces. Here is some advices worth considering: >> > >> > It is accepted by the media and the police that all Muslims are not >> > terrorists, but some Muslims do resort to extremism and violence, and >> > that the peace-loving intelligentsia among the Muslim community should >> > take responsibility to root out the bad elements. This is often >> > repeated on every news channel and newspaper after every attack: >> > Secular and elite Muslims need to sift out the extremist elements in >> > their community. Well, no right thinking Muslim can deny this >> > responsibility and there are many who are eagerly ready to play that >> > role. But terrorism or extremist elements of the society cannot be >> > eradicated by only their efforts, if the govt. and the police >> > themselves have been unable to do so. They need the same logistical >> > support and resources to bring out any change in the community, which >> > the authorities use. In fact, a more practical idea today would be an >> > active coordination between the intelligence agencies, the police, the >> > judiciary and the responsible people in the Muslim community. But for >> > that to happen, the first and foremost requirement is for the >> > officials to TRUST THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY. It is a widely known fact >> > that the number and ratio of Muslims in Indian security forces, >> > police, intelligence, ministries and other important institutions is >> > very abysmal – at least not proportionate to their population. >> > Moreover, in the war against the terror, the authorities never talk to >> > the responsible people from the community leave aside involving them >> > actively. >> > >> > A specific recent case that can serve as an example: >> > >> > Take the case of the recent police-terrorist encounter at Jamia Nagar, >> > Delhi. The Delhi Police (and its Special Cell) not only did not inform >> > any of the local citizens of the area before or during the operation >> > (while they gave prior information to the media), but also made no >> > effort to communicate to the frightened local residents afterwards >> > (even during their further arrests of youngsters from the locality), >> > while the theories of the encounter being fake were spreading in the >> > locality. Their encounter of 19th September 2008 was like a very >> > specialized surgical operation done on the body without giving it >> > anesthesia or stitching it back, or allowing it to heal. This simply >> > shows that they either look at the entire community with prejudice and >> > suspicion (of harbouring the terror within), or they are not genuinely >> > interested in uprooting the nuisance of terror, and only want to >> > continue showing to the world that Muslim terrorists exist. They >> > further infuriated many Muslims the next day by showcasing the three >> > arrested suspects to the media by covering their faces/heads in the >> > stereotypical pink Arab scarves, which is a clichéd symbol of orthodox >> > Muslims or Palestinian extremists. >> > >> > If the authorities start trusting the community and seriously involve >> > them in uprooting the internal terrorism, it may show better results >> > than secret raids and encounters. Some residents of Batla House >> > gathered outside the encounter site the next day said "even if there >> > were terrorists holed up in the flat, with weapons, there was a way to >> > peacefully flush them out. After all they were not holding any >> > hostages. The police knew their location in advance. It could have >> > taken some neighbours into confidence, emptied the entire >> > neighbourhood, blocked all exit paths from the flat, and then waited >> > (even if for days) until the boys got fed up or famished, and >> > surrendered. There were lots of possibilities, if there was a will." >> > What is required today is a confidence building between the police and >> > the people, and some kind citizen's initiatives or neighbourhood-watch >> > schemes, (which already exist in some of the posh areas of Indian >> > towns). >> > >> > The smaller towns (such as Azamgarh) or ghettoized localities (such as >> > Batla House) in the cities, where such initiatives are required more, >> > are unfortunately left to rot by our civic authorities. They could be >> > the breeding grounds of a lot of anti-social elements, but the >> > authorities are equally responsible for their sorry state. Thus, a >> > long-term solution to the mushrooming of internal terror is possible >> > only with a multi-pronged approach, the first requirement of which is >> > to eradicate the corruption and communal bias in the police >> > department, and make them people-friendly. They need to involve senior >> > and serious citizens of a locality to nab the likely culprits of >> > terror in their area. But this effort should not mean vigilance and >> > security measures so strict that they affect the privacy and trust >> > between people in a locality. >> > ==== >> > >> > Please join our facebook group to participate in this campaign: >> > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=124494910211 >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From parthaekka at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 20:48:33 2009 From: parthaekka at gmail.com (Partha Dasgupta) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 20:48:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0902121653t4438e4b9td515bee4e2a03592@mail.gmail.com> References: <222708.90849.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <5af37bb0902110542x5ec41d29i6318231e9b8d1a55@mail.gmail.com> <190806.74995.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <5af37bb0902121653t4438e4b9td515bee4e2a03592@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32144e990902130718j54d8f163p6e91518350b415d6@mail.gmail.com> Dear Yasir, If we look at the bare facts, then: a) The 'terrorists' in Kashmir are 'Islamic', even though all Islamic people are not terrorists. b) Speaking technically, with any excesses that some members of the Indian armed forces may have committed, they can not be branded as terrorists. c) With Islam being the primary religion in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and the reason behind the birth of Pakistan, it is the binding force behind the terrorists who have crippled both these nations. d) The 'solution' - so to speak - is to bring in transparent & effective governance that does not wink and blindfold itself to the extremists, and egg them on towards other targets that were initially paid for by foreign coin (and still are) - but to use the funds for infrastructure and rehabilitation. I know that sounds simple, but if a family can't eat and has no alternative, then they'll go for any that pays. Sure, there are still some who will take the violent route - but at least that will become the exception instead of the rule. e) The 'solution' can not come from outside, but from the people forcing change as there are as always many vested interested in status quo where they rule like gods with the power of life and death. The change will have to be forced in all arenas - and from within. Guess this is one of the reasons I subscribe to this list as it makes me rethink a lot of issues I thought I was sure about. In other words, this is my personal view, and I'm willing to accept that I may be wrong or un-informed. Rgds, Partha ...................... On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 6:23 AM, yasir ~يا سر wrote: > I seriously doubt it is ''islamic''. it is simply political and a political > fringe, related to other events iin the region, primarily the 80's are > unthinkable in afghanistan pakistan and kashmir without the US and Soviet > games in afghanistan. it is not possible to separate them. does that make > any solution unfeasible and defeated from the beginning once again. > > best > > > > On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 1:59 PM, Kshmendra Kaul >wrote: > > > > > > As far as 'sandwiched' or 'bun kabaabed' Afghanistan, Pakistan and India > > are concerned, the only thing stringing them together is Islamic > Terrorism. > > > > Kshmendra > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* yasir ~يا سر > > *To:* sarai list > > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 11, 2009 5:42:26 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear > > > > thats a half callous statement if there is no mention of the nature of > > the indian army's presence in kashmir, like the pk army's actions such > > as aerial bombings in fata. and of course afghanistan pakistan and > > india are strung together in a sandwich, a south asian a bun kebab. > > > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > > wrote: > > > What Pakistan and Pakistanis and their supporters in Kashmir did to > > Kashmir, is now being done in Swat, Pakistan by it's own Pakistanis. > > > > > > Kshmendra > > > > > > > > > "Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear" > > > By Sher Baz Khan > > > Tuesday, 03 Feb, 2009 > > > > > > (MINGORA: The road to Swat used to be a byword for breathtaking beauty. > > Although it remains the most picturesque in the country, it now conjures > up > > fear and lurking danger.) > > > The journey upwards from Mardan these days is forbidding. The entire > > route is a picture of utter desolation. Fear of the unknown has overtaken > a > > place fabled for its fertile fields and majestic mountains. > > > Even a flying visit is enough to fill one with a sense of foreboding > that > > religious extremists would overrun the valley before long. > > > Most people, especially those living in urban areas, seem to have lost > > the will to live. > > > Things started taking an ugly turn in July 2007 after the then NWFP > chief > > minister Shamsul Mulk called in paramilitary forces to take on militants > > fired by Maulana Fazlullah's inflammatory rhetoric. > > > But the decision seems to have rebounded on the government, for now at > > least. The Maulana's followers hold sway over no less than 80 per cent of > > the Swat valley. > > > The Army is into the third phase of an operation that has seen the > > state's writ shrinking by the day. Of late the Taliban have made inroads > > into even settled areas, such as, Mardan, Takhtbai, Shergarh, and almost > the > > entire Malakand Agency. > > > Taliban are spreading their message in the same way as they did, and > > still do, in Swat. The medium of the message is fear. In fact, fear is > the > > message. > > > The moment I entered the region, I was struck by unmistakable signs of > a > > place steadily turning its back on the outside world. Institution after > > institution is falling to the Taliban. > > > Non-combatants have a stark choice: seek refuge in other places or > accept > > the diktat of Maulana Fazlullah. > > > I managed to strike conversations with some Swatis, albeit after much > > persuasion. > > > Abdullah Khan, a draper, narrated the ordeal of his brother, Rauf Khan, > > especially his treatment by a Rawalpindi-based psychiatrist. > > > 'Rauf saw the beheading of a man in a butcher shop by militants. Since > > that day he either laughs loudly or sheds tears in silence,' Abdullah > said. > > > A stroll through Mingora's main marketplace brought us face to face > with > > misery. A number of people poured their hearts out to us. > > > 'The thunder of bombs, rockets, grenades and whatnot linger in our > ears.' > > > 'Go to the psychiatrists of Peshawar and Rawalpindi and ask them how > many > > children, men and women from Swat they are treating these days. I bet the > > number will baffle you,' said Ajmal Khan, a college student. > > > The locals alleged that the military operation had killed more > > non-combatants than militants. > > > The economic fallout of the conflict is ominous. Most of the 1,000 > hotels > > have gone out of business. The rent-a-car business is also dying out. > > > Shops dealing in CDs and operators of cable television have folded up > > after Maulana Fazlullah's warnings. > > > Barber shops have put up notices that they would not shave off beards > as > > the Taliban have told them not to do so. > > > A glitzy plaza caught my eye with its elegant shops, but sadly there > were > > no shoppers. > > > 'Women are not allowed to enter the premises unless they are > accompanied > > by men,' read a banner fluttering over the entrance to the mall. > > > A number of tailors said they had been told not to let women enter > their > > shops. > > > 'The upper and middle classes are leaving the valley and settling down > > elsewhere,' said Aleem Jan, a tailor making women's suits. He is among > many > > who are planning to move to either Mardan or Peshawar. > > > Advertisement hoardings carrying pictures of women are disallowed. > > > Faces of women in ads are blackened or deformed. > > > A building housing the court is empty of lawyers and litigants as > Taliban > > have decreed that the existing judicial order is un-Islamic. They have > set > > up 73 sharia courts to administer 'speedy justice'. > > > These courts summon people on phone, threatening violators with death. > > > And speedy justice it is indeed. They settle cases within a couple of > > days. Hence they are getting popular. > > > 'A summon from the court of Fazlullah is like a death warrant. No one > > dare disobey it,' said Jamil Ahmed, a lawyer. > > > Although he favoured the existing judicial system, he was all praise > for > > the sharia courts as they decide cases in no time. > > > Jamil cited the example of a woman whose plea for dissolution was > decided > > the other day by a local court. The matter was lingering for the past 22 > > years. > > > She had applied for dissolution of marriage at the age of 21 and now > she > > is 43. > > > The president of the Swat Bar Association, Aftab Alam, is against a > > parallel judiciary. But he too said judges should try to dispose of cases > in > > 'reasonable time' to undercut the Taliban courts. > > > Only two of the 14 policewomen who worked in the district court take > the > > trouble to report for duty these days. But they wear veils and keep a low > > profile, mostly hiding themselves behind bushes. > > > Almost all the legislators belonging to the ruling Awami National Party > > have fled from Swat. The exception is Afzal Khan Lala. All of them are on > > the Taliban's hit list. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.dawn.net/wps/wcm/connect/Dawn%20Content%20Library/dawn/news/pakistan/nwfp/tourist-heaven-turns-into-valley-of-fear-ha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Partha Dasgupta +919811047132 From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 20:53:41 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 20:53:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Pink Condom Campaign In-Reply-To: <6353c690902130415g55255299kac92bd7ab047708b@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690902130415g55255299kac92bd7ab047708b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear all The entire debate which has been centered around the event of Mangalore pub attack have to be understood critically, before we go ahead with such kind of protests like 'pink chaddi', 'pink condoms' and now the 'pink sarees' campaign of Sri Rama Sene (as per Indian Express reports). First of all, the whole myth of 'Indian culture' has been created. One needs to understand what Indian culture is. It is nothing, and yet, it is everything. It is nothing, because when we look at the cultural aspects of different regions of India (and even Pakistan and Bangladesh as they before 1947, were a part of the Indian 'nation', where 'nation' simply refers to the territory about which history is taught to us in our schools and colleges), they had their diversities and differences among them. There were places and strands which did join them, but only loosely and not rigidly, so that they could take various forms in various places. This is observed in many things. For example, Dusshera is celebrated in various forms across different regions of India. In Gujarat, it is celebrated through 'Garba', in West Bengal it is 'Durga Puja', and in some other regions, it's something else. And yet, it is everything which expressed life of the normal people across different regions of this very Indian 'nation'. The surprising part is that there is nothing in these which make them 'Indian', the reason simply being that one can't define what being an 'Indian' is, or what is 'Indianness'. Of course, many people may come out with various definitions after reading this mail, but I don't think any definition can be quite comprehensive so as to bring out all the diverse elements of the cultures spread across different regions of the country. Therefore, it is absolutely wrong in my view to spread a notion that there is something called 'Indian culture' and moreover, give it a monolithic view. Culture, by definition, stands for the way the people live (the manner of speech and talks, art, literature, anything which expresses the way people live). And cultures are bound to change. The very Indian culture we talk about has undergone a lot of transformation in the last 2000 years and more. Indian culture is not a monolith which will remain static forever, as the RSS-Sri Rama Sene-Sangh parivar or some of the Muslim fundamentalist/Christian fundamentalist organizations want them to. The fact is that cultures change. And therefore, on that account, just because at a certain point of time, some customs were followed, doesn't mean that we have to stick with them in the notion of 'remaining true Indians' or 'to stick to our culture'. This is absolute nonsense. Cultures can change, and this change due to some interactions or circumstances is unavoidable, as one realizes later. The next point arises as to whether, some change should be acceptable or not. This is a highly contentious question. Indian society has been accepted as being a communitarian society, prior to the British rule. All the resources of the villages were be to managed by the community. This has been something pointed out extensively by Ramchandra Guha and Madhav Gadgil in their book 'Ecology and Equity' for stating a kind of development paradigm which is alternative to the current one we keep on hearing about. Now in a communitarian society, individual rights may not be easily accepted. And in different societies across different regions of India, different customs may not be acceptable. What's more, some customs may be acceptable in some societies, but not in others. For example, probably Ashok Gehlot or Yeduyurappa may feel that women should not be allowed to drink, but if one visits tribal communities in different parts of this very country, one would find tribal women also drinking at the tribal festivals. One example is this : http://www.orissa-tourism.com/trifes.htm So now, going by this kind of study, drinking may not be acceptable to some, and yet acceptable to others. Then who decides what is acceptable and what is not? Democracy has certainly in some way provided that answer. The individual should alone decide what to do and what not to do, provided he/she is above 18 yrs of age, in this case of drinking in pubs. The act of Ram Sene was totally despicable, and this was not what they should have done. Although on the aspect of rationality, people may laugh at this, but the Constitution of India does provide the chance to Sene activists, to actually protest Valentine's Day and all such so-called Western civilizational attacks on Indian culture, in a non-violent manner, through dharnas and rallies being taken out in a peaceful manner. Being emotional towards one's customs and traditions is one thing; trying to change the society through violence is quite another. The first is understandable, the second is certainly not. Also comes the question of women. Yes it's a fact that women have been turned into the pack of 'honor' which has to be maintained for all families. It's this which women dislike. And they certainly have a right to do so. For years, they have been treated to the whims and fancies of men only. And now that they have got a chance to attain equality, these acts only take us back to days of women victimization as done earlier. This is certainly something to be heavily criticized. Now I come to the campaigns finally. The kind of campaigns which finally came up, are a totally rubbish. Instead of going through proper debates and making the Ram Sene activists understand why they are wrong, this is a completely new way of confrontation. So now, we have chaddis, condoms, sarees and what not to give. Probably, tomorrow, this way we may be sending bluefilms as well for protest. Is this how the problem can be solved? I had initially thought that the chaddis campaign is good for it will embarass the Hindutva activists to mend their ways, but looking at the results, I think in all probability that such kind of campaigns are only generating confrontation amongst sections of the society. And this will never lead to proper understanding amongst those who feel women can go to pubs, and those who feel they can't. And I am ashamed that I even thought in the first place that the 'chaddi' campaign was right. What we need is a proper debate and a sympathetic understanding of each other. If the Rama Sene really thinks that the women they beat up were their 'sisters', then they should have debated with them the 'ills' of Western civilization. And the women, in order to get their due, should have called for a debate as well to show to the Rama Sene activists how irrational they are in their faith, and what is wrong with their thought. But both sides have failed. I don't mean to say Mangalore was right. But if Mumbai attacks could start a debate on terrorism, shouldn't Mangalore pub attacks start a debate on 'Indian culture' and so called destruction of Indian society by 'Western festivals and civilization'? And do the 'chaddi, saree, condom' campaigns allow that? Or do they further spread the politics of confrontation and making mockery of each other? Regards Rakesh From parthaekka at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 21:03:15 2009 From: parthaekka at gmail.com (Partha Dasgupta) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:03:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India In-Reply-To: <341380d00902122114y33755a3eo6ee475b535ce9a8b@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00902102206n6658ce1av6d91b914e76cacd2@mail.gmail.com> <426636.22503.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <341380d00902122114y33755a3eo6ee475b535ce9a8b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32144e990902130733x3ae92eaah8b29902de53eb947@mail.gmail.com> Dear Anupam, 1. As a Hindu, disagree with the lunatics who supposedly represent the Hindu's - whether for Babri Masjid or the Samjhauta Express, or otherwise. 2. In case you haven't been reading, there were many Hindu individuals who expressed anguish over the unfortunate events I mentioned. An aunt of mine wrote against the Babri Masjid demolition in a national daily. 3. As an Indian (Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist....), why should not all of us ask Al Qaeda to stop attacks. And since even in the Mumbai attack they seemed to accept Muslim people and spare them, why should we not ask our Muslim fellow citizens to use their influence - however slim it may or may not be - to keep our nation safe ? 4. As for the acceptance of Pakistan for a probe - well, they certainly don't have any technical capability that would give India an advantage in a probe (which the US and Israel forces certainly have). On the reliability front, their actions raises a huge question mark as to their reliability or concept of truth. Calling them would be like sending a Tiger in to a hen coop to bedsit them! So what's your case, as I miss the logic of your argument completely. Rgds, Partha ..................... On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 10:44 AM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > dear kshmendra, > > your very line that indian muslims should ask al-qaeda to stop terror > attacks is problemmatic. hindu groups were responsible for the samjhauta > express attacks as stated by police officials. are hindus ready to > apologise and appeal to bajrang dal to stop the distribution of > trishuls that has been happening in Orissa through Gujarat for killing > muslims, christians and running various rackets, urge that they should stop > doing this? > > the aman-shanti mail clearly stated that they dont want pakistani agencies > to probe into samjhauta blasts saying we (indians which includes me and > you) are quite capable of solving it ourselves. where as we (indians > including me and you) dont mind FBI and Mossad coming here and solving > 26/11, then also pointing severe discrepancies in our intelligence and > policing. > > again, apologies for the delay and being unclear about my statements. > > regards > anupam > > On 2/12/09, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > > > Dear Anupam > > > > Would you please clarify who exactly is the "YOU" and the "YOUR" in your > > words : > > > > "Yes, but you prefer mossad and FBI coming over as your security agencies > > are > > not adequately equipped to investigate any case." > > > > Thanks > > > > Kshmendra > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* anupam chakravartty > > *To:* sarai list > > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 11, 2009 10:06:23 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop > hurting > > and threatening India > > > > dear aman, shanti, peace and other such things, > > > > i would have supported this appeal had it not used these words: > > > > "Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its > > allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world." > > > > why do indian muslims always have to give a certificate that they are > > clean? > > why? what is the difference between al-qaeda and you? both of you judging > > the plight of the identities ignoring the fact that conflicts are > directed > > against weaker sections. > > > > and then you go on to say: > > > > The claim that "Indian Muslims are persecuted by Hindus, thus > > world's Muslims need to save them". No, Thank you. We don't need the > > outside saviors. > > > > Yes, but you prefer mossad and FBI coming over as your security agencies > > are > > not adequately equipped to investigate any case. Dont you? > > > > with best wishes, > > > > anupam > > > > > > > > On 2/11/09, Aman Shanti wrote: > > > > > > Dear friends > > > Please see this news item, and also our appeal below. Kindly support > > > our appeal by sending the message across to many friends so that a > > > better sense prevails in this world: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/PoliticsNation/Al_Qaeda_threatens_to_attack_India_for_the_first_time/articleshow/4109243.cms > > > ------ > > > > > > Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its > > > allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world. > > > Islam does not approve the killing of innocent people. Peace-loving > > > Muslims must join hands to convince these extremist elements to desist > > > from their path of terror. Here is an appeal (which is also available > > > on facebook) that needs your support: > > > > > > Indian Muslims Against Terrorism > > > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=124494910211 > > > > > > Why only Indian Muslims – everyone should be against terrorism. Yes, > > > true - but this group has a certain mandate that related mostly to > > > Indian Muslims (although all others are welcome to join and > > > participate in this forum). We wish to focus on a few specific points > > > that are important to address the issue of regional terrorism. There > > > are two basic claims (made by some), which we want to address here: > > > > > > 1. The claim that "Indian Muslims are persecuted by Hindus, thus > > > world's Muslims need to save them". No, Thank you. We don't need the > > > outside saviors. > > > > > > 2. The claim that "now there are home-bred Muslim terrorists in India > > > that need to be nabbed." Ok, if this is true, then please involve > > > sincere and peace-loving Indian Muslims in the search for such > > > extremist elements in India's Muslim localities, instead of randomly > > > arresting and killing them in encounters. > > > > > > The above two points are detailed here: > > > > > > (1) There is an assumption or discourse coming out of some Muslim > > > countries (such as Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia and others) > > > that "Muslims in India are being victimized and tortured by the Hindus > > > (for example in Gujarat, Kashmir, Ayodhya etc.), and since they are in > > > great danger and helpless in the hands of Hindu extremists, it is the > > > duty of Muslims all over the world to go and save them, and revenge > > > their killings and persecution, by terrorizing the Hindus and damaging > > > the economic might of India." It has been reported that such discourse > > > is part of the training given to the terrorists who allegedly carry > > > out attacks in India. While we don't know for sure if the "terrorists" > > > are given such propaganda, but we assume that many Muslims outside > > > India may certainly have such an impression about India, as one can > > > see in some of the media in the Muslim world. > > > > > > We agree that Muslims in India have been subjected to a lot of > > > violence, torture, prejudice and injustice at various times, probably > > > in the same way as other minorities like dalits (low-caste Hindus), > > > tribals, and women etc. have been treated. But we wish to convey to > > > the "Islamic world" that WE DO NOT NEED THE HELP OF SAVIOURS FROM > > > OUTSIDE India to fight our struggles. (By struggle, we don't mean > > > violent revenge for the injustice, but a simple struggle for survival, > > > and recourse to the law, which luckily is not hopeless in India). > > > Muslims have been living in India for last one millennium, sometimes > > > peacefully and sometimes in conflict, but most of the times trying to > > > carve out ways to co-exist with fellow Indians, and make India a > > > progressive country. The contribution of Muslims to the progress of > > > India need not be repeated here. The bottom-line is: They cannot go > > > anywhere else – India is their home, and they have to struggle here > > > like everyone else. So, please don't meddle into our affairs. > > > > > > This plea is especially for those powerful institutions/organizations > > > in countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan who deliberately support > > > terrorism and violence against India and Hindus. You don't realize > > > that every time there is a terrorist attack in India, although a lot > > > of non-Muslims get killed or affected, but the ultimate loss is that > > > of Indian Muslims. They are the ones who are seen more and more as > > > culprits and a subject of hate and prejudice. It is our children (with > > > Muslim names) who are taunted in Indian schools as "Pakistanis", and > > > it is we who cannot rent a house in a mainstream colony because of our > > > Muslim tag, all because of you. So, our Islamic brothers, YOU ARE NOT > > > HELPING US come out of our suffering at all. You are actually pushing > > > us further into a furnace by carrying out the terrorist attacks on > > > "Hindus". We request and plead you to have mercy on this beautiful > > > country and the world, and stop your senseless jihad. If you are told > > > that you will to go to heaven (and get houris) when you die for the > > > cause of Islam, you are highly mistaken and misled. You will surely > > > burn in hell for harming innocent people. This world is not only for > > > Muslims – it is for everyone; whatever religion or culture they may > > > follow. So, live and let live. > > > > > > (2) The above message was meant for the "terrorists" infiltrating from > > > outside India and their supporters/sympathizers. And now for the > > > "home-grown" breed of terrorists. After the horrific 9/11 attacks, it > > > was reported by many that among the Muslim terrorists operating all > > > over the world, there are actually no Indian Muslims involved. > > > (Although Indian media and intelligence department had been claiming > > > since many years that Muslim madrasas are the breeding grounds of > > > terrorism, but not a single Indian madrasa has so far been found to be > > > involved in such activity). Every one was happy and proud about the > > > news of India Muslims' non-involvement in terrorism. But suddenly, > > > after the 2002 Gujarat pogrom, it was reported that Muslims residing > > > in India are becoming terrorists too, and many of them highly > > > educated-ones (engineers, doctors, IT professionals, etc.). They use > > > new technology of Internet, cell-phones and deadly explosive material > > > supplied by their counterparts from across the border. > > > > > > Subsequently, hundreds of young boys from Muslim localities have been > > > arrested and tortured by the Indian police, some even killed in > > > encounters. But most of them so far have only been accused and almost > > > none ultimately convicted or punished for an act of terrorism, due to > > > a lack of substantial evidence against them. Most Muslims and some > > > human rights activists argue that those arrested or killed Muslim boys > > > have nothing to do with terrorist activities and have been framed > > > wrongly. After seeing the adverse role of the police in recent > > > incidents such as an encounter at Batla House (Delhi) in September > > > 2008 where 2 such accused (and a police inspector) were killed, the > > > Muslim community has lost all faith in the police and intelligence > > > agencies, fearing that due to their prejudice they could arrest and > > > kill any Muslim at will in their war against terror. Their > > > investigations are not transparent, their proofs are not convincing, > > > and their encounters with terrorists look stage-managed. > > > > > > However, such a reaction from Muslims is also considered by some as a > > > "denial mode", and it is suggested (especially by the mainstream > > > media) that Muslims need to come out of this mode and accept the > > > reality that home-bred terrorists do exist in the community, > > > especially since those who carried out the recent blasts (in 2008) did > > > claim that they are "home-bred" terrorists. If the internal Muslims > > > are truly involved in such activities, and if we are serious about > > > nabbing and punishing them, it would be good for the peace-loving > > > Muslims themselves to come forward and make a strategy to help > > > eradicate this menace, rather than to leave it only to the > > > state-forces. Here is some advices worth considering: > > > > > > It is accepted by the media and the police that all Muslims are not > > > terrorists, but some Muslims do resort to extremism and violence, and > > > that the peace-loving intelligentsia among the Muslim community should > > > take responsibility to root out the bad elements. This is often > > > repeated on every news channel and newspaper after every attack: > > > Secular and elite Muslims need to sift out the extremist elements in > > > their community. Well, no right thinking Muslim can deny this > > > responsibility and there are many who are eagerly ready to play that > > > role. But terrorism or extremist elements of the society cannot be > > > eradicated by only their efforts, if the govt. and the police > > > themselves have been unable to do so. They need the same logistical > > > support and resources to bring out any change in the community, which > > > the authorities use. In fact, a more practical idea today would be an > > > active coordination between the intelligence agencies, the police, the > > > judiciary and the responsible people in the Muslim community. But for > > > that to happen, the first and foremost requirement is for the > > > officials to TRUST THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY. It is a widely known fact > > > that the number and ratio of Muslims in Indian security forces, > > > police, intelligence, ministries and other important institutions is > > > very abysmal – at least not proportionate to their population. > > > Moreover, in the war against the terror, the authorities never talk to > > > the responsible people from the community leave aside involving them > > > actively. > > > > > > A specific recent case that can serve as an example: > > > > > > Take the case of the recent police-terrorist encounter at Jamia Nagar, > > > Delhi. The Delhi Police (and its Special Cell) not only did not inform > > > any of the local citizens of the area before or during the operation > > > (while they gave prior information to the media), but also made no > > > effort to communicate to the frightened local residents afterwards > > > (even during their further arrests of youngsters from the locality), > > > while the theories of the encounter being fake were spreading in the > > > locality. Their encounter of 19th September 2008 was like a very > > > specialized surgical operation done on the body without giving it > > > anesthesia or stitching it back, or allowing it to heal. This simply > > > shows that they either look at the entire community with prejudice and > > > suspicion (of harbouring the terror within), or they are not genuinely > > > interested in uprooting the nuisance of terror, and only want to > > > continue showing to the world that Muslim terrorists exist. They > > > further infuriated many Muslims the next day by showcasing the three > > > arrested suspects to the media by covering their faces/heads in the > > > stereotypical pink Arab scarves, which is a clichéd symbol of orthodox > > > Muslims or Palestinian extremists. > > > > > > If the authorities start trusting the community and seriously involve > > > them in uprooting the internal terrorism, it may show better results > > > than secret raids and encounters. Some residents of Batla House > > > gathered outside the encounter site the next day said "even if there > > > were terrorists holed up in the flat, with weapons, there was a way to > > > peacefully flush them out. After all they were not holding any > > > hostages. The police knew their location in advance. It could have > > > taken some neighbours into confidence, emptied the entire > > > neighbourhood, blocked all exit paths from the flat, and then waited > > > (even if for days) until the boys got fed up or famished, and > > > surrendered. There were lots of possibilities, if there was a will." > > > What is required today is a confidence building between the police and > > > the people, and some kind citizen's initiatives or neighbourhood-watch > > > schemes, (which already exist in some of the posh areas of Indian > > > towns). > > > > > > The smaller towns (such as Azamgarh) or ghettoized localities (such as > > > Batla House) in the cities, where such initiatives are required more, > > > are unfortunately left to rot by our civic authorities. They could be > > > the breeding grounds of a lot of anti-social elements, but the > > > authorities are equally responsible for their sorry state. Thus, a > > > long-term solution to the mushrooming of internal terror is possible > > > only with a multi-pronged approach, the first requirement of which is > > > to eradicate the corruption and communal bias in the police > > > department, and make them people-friendly. They need to involve senior > > > and serious citizens of a locality to nab the likely culprits of > > > terror in their area. But this effort should not mean vigilance and > > > security measures so strict that they affect the privacy and trust > > > between people in a locality. > > > ==== > > > > > > Please join our facebook group to participate in this campaign: > > > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=124494910211 > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Partha Dasgupta +919811047132 From divya.manian at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 21:19:37 2009 From: divya.manian at gmail.com (Divya Manian) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 07:49:37 -0800 Subject: [Reader-list] Omar Abdullah barred from performing Umrah due to marrying a non-muslim (Sikh) woman In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70902130532l4f1507d2w853e16079ad5ff0e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 2/13/09 5:32 AM, "Pawan Durani" wrote: > Arent there many Saudi prince who have married non muslims ? I think their wives must have converted to Islam. Omar's wife may still be a practising Sikh. From tasveerghar at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 22:18:07 2009 From: tasveerghar at gmail.com (Tasveer Ghar) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 22:18:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Of Romantic Couples and Gods on the Streets In-Reply-To: <484c1050902122325s1735a99cted6a36e1d08868fe@mail.gmail.com> References: <484c1050902122325s1735a99cted6a36e1d08868fe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <484c1050902130848r5ed26457x5242abcfef69340f@mail.gmail.com> Dear all In an age when Indians need court approval to kiss in public and celebrating romance is considered a "foreign culture", Tasveer Ghar presents some interesting new visuals essays: 1. "Monuments, Landscapes and Romance in Indian Popular Imagery": A visual essay by Kajri Jain, about the depiction of romantic couples in Indian calendar and poster art. Kajri Jain is based in Canada, and is the author of "Gods in the Bazaar: the Economies of Indian Calendar Art" (Duke University Press, 2007): See her essay and images at this link: http://tasveerghar.net/2009/kajri/ 2. "Tiled Gods Appear on Mumbai's Streets": A visual essay by Amit Madheshiya and Shirley Abraham, about the gods and deities that prevent Indian men from their seemingly favourite pastime of peeing on the streets. Amit and Shirley are independent researchers based in Mumbai. See their image-essay at http://tasveerghar.net/2008/shirley-amit/ 3. The Tasveer Ghar Picture of the Month: Since the flavour the month is romance, here is a sample of more romantic couples from past: http://tasveerghar.net/picomonth.html Enjoy several other interesting visual essays on Tasveer Ghar: http://tasveerghar.net/gallery.html Tasveer Ghar http://www.tasveerghar.net From yasir.media at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 23:06:21 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?windows-1256?B?eWFzaXIgfu3HINPR?=) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 18:36:21 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear In-Reply-To: <32144e990902130718j54d8f163p6e91518350b415d6@mail.gmail.com> References: <222708.90849.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <5af37bb0902110542x5ec41d29i6318231e9b8d1a55@mail.gmail.com> <190806.74995.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <5af37bb0902121653t4438e4b9td515bee4e2a03592@mail.gmail.com> <32144e990902130718j54d8f163p6e91518350b415d6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0902130936s48cc6c94ic182809bd565c852@mail.gmail.com> i think there are regular forces maintained by the state, there is militancy, there are mercenaries. some of these may be operating in small groups. some may be supported by a significant chunk of a population,some may be isolated or strategic groups. a terrorist probably targets a public to create panic or ''terror' ruthlessly through an act. so its a pretty useless word. not sure how it does not apply to a regular army doing their work in a large civilian population. i suppose armies inspire confidence and discipline ! being islamic or non has nothing to do with the politics of it. yes some groups may be muslim trying to do "ïslamic political" work, or christian and hindu for that matter, but it is nonsense. it is just political. the crux is in the politics. if tribesmen grow up fighting, when is civilising a good idea ? when the Frontier Crimes Regulations go ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontier_Crimes_Regulations regards On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Partha Dasgupta wrote: > Dear Yasir, > If we look at the bare facts, then: > a)   The 'terrorists' in Kashmir are 'Islamic', even though all Islamic >       people are not terrorists. > b)   Speaking technically, with any excesses that some members of >       the Indian armed forces may have committed, they can not be >       branded as terrorists. > c)   With Islam being the primary religion in Afghanistan and Pakistan, >       and the reason behind the birth of Pakistan, it is the binding force >       behind the terrorists who have crippled both these nations. > d)   The 'solution' - so to speak - is to bring in transparent & effective > governance >       that does not wink and blindfold itself to the extremists, and egg > them on >       towards other targets that were initially paid for by foreign coin > (and >       still are) - but to use the funds for infrastructure and > rehabilitation. >       I know that sounds simple, but if a family can't eat and has no >       alternative, then they'll go for any that pays. Sure, there are still > some >       who will take the violent route - but at least that will become the > exception >       instead of the rule. > e)  The 'solution' can not come from outside, but from the people forcing > change >      as there are as always many vested interested in status quo where they > rule >      like gods with the power of life and death. The change will have to be > forced >      in all arenas - and from within. > Guess this is one of the reasons I subscribe to this list as it makes me > rethink a lot of issues I thought I was sure about. In other words, this is > my personal view, and I'm willing to accept that I may be wrong or > un-informed. > Rgds, Partha > ...................... > On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 6:23 AM, yasir ~يا سر wrote: >> >> I seriously doubt it is ''islamic''. it is simply political and a >> political >> fringe, related to other events iin the region, primarily the 80's are >> unthinkable in afghanistan pakistan and kashmir without the US and Soviet >> games in afghanistan. it is not possible to separate them. does that make >> any solution unfeasible and defeated from the beginning once again. >> >> best >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 1:59 PM, Kshmendra Kaul >> wrote: >> >> >> > >> > As far as 'sandwiched' or 'bun kabaabed' Afghanistan, Pakistan and India >> > are concerned, the only thing stringing them together is Islamic >> > Terrorism. >> > >> > Kshmendra >> > >> > >> >  ------------------------------ >> > *From:* yasir ~يا سر >> > *To:* sarai list >> > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 11, 2009 5:42:26 PM >> > *Subject:* Re: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear >> > >> > thats a half callous statement if there is no mention of the nature of >> > the indian army's presence in kashmir, like the pk army's actions such >> > as aerial bombings in fata. and of course afghanistan pakistan and >> > india are strung together in a sandwich, a south asian a bun kebab. >> > >> > >> > >> > On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Kshmendra Kaul >> > wrote: >> > > What Pakistan and Pakistanis and their supporters in Kashmir did to >> > Kashmir, is now being done in Swat, Pakistan by it's own Pakistanis. >> > > >> > > Kshmendra >> > > >> > > >> > > "Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear" >> > > By Sher Baz Khan >> > > Tuesday, 03 Feb, 2009 >> > > >> > > (MINGORA: The road to Swat used to be a byword for breathtaking >> > > beauty. >> > Although it remains the most picturesque in the country, it now conjures >> > up >> > fear and lurking danger.) >> > > The journey upwards from Mardan these days is forbidding. The entire >> > route is a picture of utter desolation. Fear of the unknown has >> > overtaken a >> > place fabled for its fertile fields and majestic mountains. >> > > Even a flying visit is enough to fill one with a sense of foreboding >> > > that >> > religious extremists would overrun the valley before long. >> > > Most people, especially those living in urban areas, seem to have lost >> > the will to live. >> > > Things started taking an ugly turn in July 2007 after the then NWFP >> > > chief >> > minister Shamsul Mulk called in paramilitary forces to take on militants >> > fired by Maulana Fazlullah's inflammatory rhetoric. >> > > But the decision seems to have rebounded on the government, for now at >> > least. The Maulana's followers hold sway over no less than 80 per cent >> > of >> > the Swat valley. >> > > The Army is into the third phase of an operation that has seen the >> > state's writ shrinking by the day. Of late the Taliban have made inroads >> > into even settled areas, such as, Mardan, Takhtbai, Shergarh, and almost >> > the >> > entire Malakand Agency. >> > > Taliban are spreading their message in the same way as they did, and >> > still do, in Swat. The medium of the message is fear. In fact, fear is >> > the >> > message. >> > > The moment I entered the region, I was struck by unmistakable signs of >> > > a >> > place steadily turning its back on the outside world. Institution after >> > institution is falling to the Taliban. >> > > Non-combatants have a stark choice: seek refuge in other places or >> > > accept >> > the diktat of Maulana Fazlullah. >> > > I managed to strike conversations with some Swatis, albeit after much >> > persuasion. >> > > Abdullah Khan, a draper, narrated the ordeal of his brother, Rauf >> > > Khan, >> > especially his treatment by a Rawalpindi-based psychiatrist. >> > > 'Rauf saw the beheading of a man in a butcher shop by militants. Since >> > that day he either laughs loudly or sheds tears in silence,' Abdullah >> > said. >> > > A stroll through Mingora's main marketplace brought us face to face >> > > with >> > misery. A number of people poured their hearts out to us. >> > > 'The thunder of bombs, rockets, grenades and whatnot linger in our >> > > ears.' >> > > 'Go to the psychiatrists of Peshawar and Rawalpindi and ask them how >> > > many >> > children, men and women from Swat they are treating these days. I bet >> > the >> > number will baffle you,' said Ajmal Khan, a college student. >> > > The locals alleged that the military operation had killed more >> > non-combatants than militants. >> > > The economic fallout of the conflict is ominous. Most of the 1,000 >> > > hotels >> > have gone out of business. The rent-a-car business is also dying out. >> > > Shops dealing in CDs and operators of cable television have folded up >> > after Maulana Fazlullah's warnings. >> > > Barber shops have put up notices that they would not shave off beards >> > > as >> > the Taliban have told them not to do so. >> > > A glitzy plaza caught my eye with its elegant shops, but sadly there >> > > were >> > no shoppers. >> > > 'Women are not allowed to enter the premises unless they are >> > > accompanied >> > by men,' read a banner fluttering over the entrance to the mall. >> > > A number of tailors said they had been told not to let women enter >> > > their >> > shops. >> > > 'The upper and middle classes are leaving the valley and settling down >> > elsewhere,' said Aleem Jan, a tailor making women's suits. He is among >> > many >> > who are planning to move to either Mardan or Peshawar. >> > > Advertisement hoardings carrying pictures of women are disallowed. >> > > Faces of women in ads are blackened or deformed. >> > > A building housing the court is empty of lawyers and litigants as >> > > Taliban >> > have decreed that the existing judicial order is un-Islamic. They have >> > set >> > up 73 sharia courts to administer 'speedy justice'. >> > > These courts summon people on phone, threatening violators with death. >> > > And speedy justice it is indeed. They settle cases within a couple of >> > days. Hence they are getting popular. >> > > 'A summon from the court of Fazlullah is like a death warrant. No one >> > dare disobey it,' said Jamil Ahmed, a lawyer. >> > > Although he favoured the existing judicial system, he was all praise >> > > for >> > the sharia courts as they decide cases in no time. >> > > Jamil cited the example of a woman whose plea for dissolution was >> > > decided >> > the other day by a local court. The matter was lingering for the past 22 >> > years. >> > > She had applied for dissolution of marriage at the age of 21 and now >> > > she >> > is 43. >> > > The president of the Swat Bar Association, Aftab Alam, is against a >> > parallel judiciary. But he too said judges should try to dispose of >> > cases in >> > 'reasonable time' to undercut the Taliban courts. >> > > Only two of the 14 policewomen who worked in the district court take >> > > the >> > trouble to report for duty these days. But they wear veils and keep a >> > low >> > profile, mostly hiding themselves behind bushes. >> > > Almost all the legislators belonging to the ruling Awami National >> > > Party >> > have fled from Swat. The exception is Afzal Khan Lala. All of them are >> > on >> > the Taliban's hit list. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > http://www.dawn.net/wps/wcm/connect/Dawn%20Content%20Library/dawn/news/pakistan/nwfp/tourist-heaven-turns-into-valley-of-fear-ha >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > _________________________________________ >> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > List archive: >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> > >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > -- > Partha Dasgupta > +919811047132 > From miyaa_mihir at yahoo.com Sat Feb 14 01:57:01 2009 From: miyaa_mihir at yahoo.com (mihir pandya) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 12:27:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?b?RG9lcyDigJxTbHVtZG9nIE1pbGxpb25haXJl4oCd?= =?utf-8?q?_have_a_wrong_answer=3F?= Message-ID: <950511.58788.qm@web53607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> This interesting piece by Rajeev Sarivastav appeared in today's The Hindu friday plus. Link:-http://www.hindu.com/fr/2009/02/13/stories/2009021350050100.htm.......... Danny Boyle’s “Slumdog Millionaire” is the buzz of the cinema world. The film is based on a poor boy who reaches the top by winning a quiz contest. The key formula behind such a concept was shown in Amitabh Bachchan’s films in 1970s and 80s such as “Deewaar”, “Laawaris”, “Muqaddar Ka Sikandar”, “Don”, “Ram Balram”, “Coolie” and others, which showed how dreams can come true. If today “Slumdog Millionaire” can get the Golden Globe award and nominations for the Oscar then it should be assumed that all these movies of Amitabh Bachchan are as good as “Slumdog Millioanire”. If you go through different aspects of “Slumdog Millionaire”, you will realise that there is a need for more research. The answer of one of the questions which was asked in the TV quiz contest in the film is wrong. Even the options given with the question are incorrect. The question asked was “Name the Indian poet who wrote the poem, “Darshan do ghanshyam nath mori akhiyan pyasi re”. The answer to this particular question is given in the film as Surdas, which has been declared as the right answer in the film. “Darshan do ghanshyam” is written by the Hindi film lyric writer Gopal Singh Nepali. It is a long devotional song which was used in the Hindi film “Narsi Bhagat” (1957) directed by Devendra Goel. This song was composed by the veteran music director Ravi. HMV has released this song in three parts, which are sung by singers Hemant Kumar, Manna Dey and Sudha Malhotra. In the film all songs have been penned by the late Gopal Singh Nepali. So the only right answer to this particular millionaire question is Gopal Singh Nepali, a song writer of Hindi films from late 30s to the 60s. From miyaa_mihir at yahoo.com Sat Feb 14 02:07:30 2009 From: miyaa_mihir at yahoo.com (mihir pandya) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 12:37:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Cultural Groups Want 14th February To Be Removed From Indian Calendars!!! Message-ID: <153537.17283.qm@web53611.mail.re2.yahoo.com> One more hilarious piece from a very interesting blog.check out on this blog... http://thedailytamasha.wordpress.com/2009/02/09/cultural-groups-want-14th-february-to-be-removed-from-indian-calendars/.......... Mumbai. 10 February 2009.  Cultural groups or Senas from all over country convened in the city yesterday to demand the “absolute removal” of 14th February as a “date, day, or number” from Indian calendars.   The much-anticipated demand was put forward by the latest poster-boy of hindu-male emancipation, ProMod Much-a-Lick,  and was seconded by MNS Chief Raj Thakarey who added - “We can replace 14th February with a new date called Phod-Det (meaning blast-it), where we will have competitions like ‘Torch a state transport bus in 20-seconds’ or ‘Slap a girl, be a man!’. And of course, the names will be in Marathi.” Though he failed to explain how these proposed activities on ‘Phod Det’ are any different from what they have been doing on the Valentine’s Day for the last few years, his cousin Udhhav justified that “if British can have hotels with no 13th floor, Hitler could live healthy with just one testicle,  why can’t we have a February with no 14th day. And in any case, February already has 32 days. Or is it 33?”  In a related incident, another Congress senior expressed his love for Rahul Gandhi and nobody noticed. From peaceshantiaman at gmail.com Sat Feb 14 10:01:19 2009 From: peaceshantiaman at gmail.com (Aman Shanti) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 10:01:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India In-Reply-To: <341380d00902122114y33755a3eo6ee475b535ce9a8b@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00902102206n6658ce1av6d91b914e76cacd2@mail.gmail.com> <426636.22503.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <341380d00902122114y33755a3eo6ee475b535ce9a8b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Anupam You seem to be not only complicating matters, you have also mis-read the original appeal. It DID NOT say that "we dont want pakistani agencies to probe into samjhauta blasts saying we (indians which includes me and you) are quite capable of solving it". In fact our appeal did not refer to Samjhauta blast at all. It clearly said that "we don't want the our Islamic brothers from outside India to come and safeguard Indian Muslims or take revenge for their plight". That is what we are against. There was no mention of investigation in that part of the appeal. The investigation comes in the second part of the message and is only meant for "investigation of cases of the so-called home-bred Indian terrorists" where the appeal was made to involve sincere and peace-loving Indian Muslims to involve in the search of these home-bred "terrorists". We think that our appeal is beginning to address many subtleties and complexities of regional terrorism - it is not a knee-jerk reaction or a frustration of Indian Muslims, nor is it in response to a "Hindu majoritarian" pressure on Muslims to make such appeals. We would request you to have a look at our appeal at facebook or blog and then suggest what your specific problems are. Aman On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 10:44 AM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > dear kshmendra, > > your very line that indian muslims should ask al-qaeda to stop terror > attacks is problemmatic. hindu groups were responsible for the samjhauta > express attacks as stated by police officials. are hindus ready to > apologise and appeal to bajrang dal to stop the distribution of > trishuls that has been happening in Orissa through Gujarat for killing > muslims, christians and running various rackets, urge that they should stop > doing this? > > the aman-shanti mail clearly stated that they dont want pakistani agencies > to probe into samjhauta blasts saying we (indians which includes me and > you) are quite capable of solving it ourselves. where as we (indians > including me and you) dont mind FBI and Mossad coming here and solving > 26/11, then also pointing severe discrepancies in our intelligence and > policing. > > again, apologies for the delay and being unclear about my statements. > > regards > anupam > > On 2/12/09, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: >> >> Dear Anupam >> >> Would you please clarify who exactly is the "YOU" and the "YOUR" in your >> words : >> >> "Yes, but you prefer mossad and FBI coming over as your security agencies >> are >> not adequately equipped to investigate any case." >> >> Thanks >> >> Kshmendra >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* anupam chakravartty >> *To:* sarai list >> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 11, 2009 10:06:23 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting >> and threatening India >> >> dear aman, shanti, peace and other such things, >> >> i would have supported this appeal had it not used these words: >> >> "Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its >> allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world." >> >> why do indian muslims always have to give a certificate that they are >> clean? >> why? what is the difference between al-qaeda and you? both of you judging >> the plight of the identities ignoring the fact that conflicts are directed >> against weaker sections. >> >> and then you go on to say: >> >> The claim that "Indian Muslims are persecuted by Hindus, thus >> world's Muslims need to save them". No, Thank you. We don't need the >> outside saviors. >> >> Yes, but you prefer mossad and FBI coming over as your security agencies >> are >> not adequately equipped to investigate any case. Dont you? >> >> with best wishes, >> >> anupam >> >> >> >> On 2/11/09, Aman Shanti wrote: >> > >> > Dear friends >> > Please see this news item, and also our appeal below. Kindly support >> > our appeal by sending the message across to many friends so that a >> > better sense prevails in this world: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/PoliticsNation/Al_Qaeda_threatens_to_attack_India_for_the_first_time/articleshow/4109243.cms >> > ------ >> > >> > Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its >> > allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world. >> > Islam does not approve the killing of innocent people. Peace-loving >> > Muslims must join hands to convince these extremist elements to desist >> > from their path of terror. Here is an appeal (which is also available >> > on facebook) that needs your support: >> > >> > Indian Muslims Against Terrorism >> > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=124494910211 >> > >> > Why only Indian Muslims – everyone should be against terrorism. Yes, >> > true - but this group has a certain mandate that related mostly to >> > Indian Muslims (although all others are welcome to join and >> > participate in this forum). We wish to focus on a few specific points >> > that are important to address the issue of regional terrorism. There >> > are two basic claims (made by some), which we want to address here: >> > >> > 1. The claim that "Indian Muslims are persecuted by Hindus, thus >> > world's Muslims need to save them". No, Thank you. We don't need the >> > outside saviors. >> > >> > 2. The claim that "now there are home-bred Muslim terrorists in India >> > that need to be nabbed." Ok, if this is true, then please involve >> > sincere and peace-loving Indian Muslims in the search for such >> > extremist elements in India's Muslim localities, instead of randomly >> > arresting and killing them in encounters. >> > >> > The above two points are detailed here: >> > >> > (1) There is an assumption or discourse coming out of some Muslim >> > countries (such as Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia and others) >> > that "Muslims in India are being victimized and tortured by the Hindus >> > (for example in Gujarat, Kashmir, Ayodhya etc.), and since they are in >> > great danger and helpless in the hands of Hindu extremists, it is the >> > duty of Muslims all over the world to go and save them, and revenge >> > their killings and persecution, by terrorizing the Hindus and damaging >> > the economic might of India." It has been reported that such discourse >> > is part of the training given to the terrorists who allegedly carry >> > out attacks in India. While we don't know for sure if the "terrorists" >> > are given such propaganda, but we assume that many Muslims outside >> > India may certainly have such an impression about India, as one can >> > see in some of the media in the Muslim world. >> > >> > We agree that Muslims in India have been subjected to a lot of >> > violence, torture, prejudice and injustice at various times, probably >> > in the same way as other minorities like dalits (low-caste Hindus), >> > tribals, and women etc. have been treated. But we wish to convey to >> > the "Islamic world" that WE DO NOT NEED THE HELP OF SAVIOURS FROM >> > OUTSIDE India to fight our struggles. (By struggle, we don't mean >> > violent revenge for the injustice, but a simple struggle for survival, >> > and recourse to the law, which luckily is not hopeless in India). >> > Muslims have been living in India for last one millennium, sometimes >> > peacefully and sometimes in conflict, but most of the times trying to >> > carve out ways to co-exist with fellow Indians, and make India a >> > progressive country. The contribution of Muslims to the progress of >> > India need not be repeated here. The bottom-line is: They cannot go >> > anywhere else – India is their home, and they have to struggle here >> > like everyone else. So, please don't meddle into our affairs. >> > >> > This plea is especially for those powerful institutions/organizations >> > in countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan who deliberately support >> > terrorism and violence against India and Hindus. You don't realize >> > that every time there is a terrorist attack in India, although a lot >> > of non-Muslims get killed or affected, but the ultimate loss is that >> > of Indian Muslims. They are the ones who are seen more and more as >> > culprits and a subject of hate and prejudice. It is our children (with >> > Muslim names) who are taunted in Indian schools as "Pakistanis", and >> > it is we who cannot rent a house in a mainstream colony because of our >> > Muslim tag, all because of you. So, our Islamic brothers, YOU ARE NOT >> > HELPING US come out of our suffering at all. You are actually pushing >> > us further into a furnace by carrying out the terrorist attacks on >> > "Hindus". We request and plead you to have mercy on this beautiful >> > country and the world, and stop your senseless jihad. If you are told >> > that you will to go to heaven (and get houris) when you die for the >> > cause of Islam, you are highly mistaken and misled. You will surely >> > burn in hell for harming innocent people. This world is not only for >> > Muslims – it is for everyone; whatever religion or culture they may >> > follow. So, live and let live. >> > >> > (2) The above message was meant for the "terrorists" infiltrating from >> > outside India and their supporters/sympathizers. And now for the >> > "home-grown" breed of terrorists. After the horrific 9/11 attacks, it >> > was reported by many that among the Muslim terrorists operating all >> > over the world, there are actually no Indian Muslims involved. >> > (Although Indian media and intelligence department had been claiming >> > since many years that Muslim madrasas are the breeding grounds of >> > terrorism, but not a single Indian madrasa has so far been found to be >> > involved in such activity). Every one was happy and proud about the >> > news of India Muslims' non-involvement in terrorism. But suddenly, >> > after the 2002 Gujarat pogrom, it was reported that Muslims residing >> > in India are becoming terrorists too, and many of them highly >> > educated-ones (engineers, doctors, IT professionals, etc.). They use >> > new technology of Internet, cell-phones and deadly explosive material >> > supplied by their counterparts from across the border. >> > >> > Subsequently, hundreds of young boys from Muslim localities have been >> > arrested and tortured by the Indian police, some even killed in >> > encounters. But most of them so far have only been accused and almost >> > none ultimately convicted or punished for an act of terrorism, due to >> > a lack of substantial evidence against them. Most Muslims and some >> > human rights activists argue that those arrested or killed Muslim boys >> > have nothing to do with terrorist activities and have been framed >> > wrongly. After seeing the adverse role of the police in recent >> > incidents such as an encounter at Batla House (Delhi) in September >> > 2008 where 2 such accused (and a police inspector) were killed, the >> > Muslim community has lost all faith in the police and intelligence >> > agencies, fearing that due to their prejudice they could arrest and >> > kill any Muslim at will in their war against terror. Their >> > investigations are not transparent, their proofs are not convincing, >> > and their encounters with terrorists look stage-managed. >> > >> > However, such a reaction from Muslims is also considered by some as a >> > "denial mode", and it is suggested (especially by the mainstream >> > media) that Muslims need to come out of this mode and accept the >> > reality that home-bred terrorists do exist in the community, >> > especially since those who carried out the recent blasts (in 2008) did >> > claim that they are "home-bred" terrorists. If the internal Muslims >> > are truly involved in such activities, and if we are serious about >> > nabbing and punishing them, it would be good for the peace-loving >> > Muslims themselves to come forward and make a strategy to help >> > eradicate this menace, rather than to leave it only to the >> > state-forces. Here is some advices worth considering: >> > >> > It is accepted by the media and the police that all Muslims are not >> > terrorists, but some Muslims do resort to extremism and violence, and >> > that the peace-loving intelligentsia among the Muslim community should >> > take responsibility to root out the bad elements. This is often >> > repeated on every news channel and newspaper after every attack: >> > Secular and elite Muslims need to sift out the extremist elements in >> > their community. Well, no right thinking Muslim can deny this >> > responsibility and there are many who are eagerly ready to play that >> > role. But terrorism or extremist elements of the society cannot be >> > eradicated by only their efforts, if the govt. and the police >> > themselves have been unable to do so. They need the same logistical >> > support and resources to bring out any change in the community, which >> > the authorities use. In fact, a more practical idea today would be an >> > active coordination between the intelligence agencies, the police, the >> > judiciary and the responsible people in the Muslim community. But for >> > that to happen, the first and foremost requirement is for the >> > officials to TRUST THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY. It is a widely known fact >> > that the number and ratio of Muslims in Indian security forces, >> > police, intelligence, ministries and other important institutions is >> > very abysmal – at least not proportionate to their population. >> > Moreover, in the war against the terror, the authorities never talk to >> > the responsible people from the community leave aside involving them >> > actively. >> > >> > A specific recent case that can serve as an example: >> > >> > Take the case of the recent police-terrorist encounter at Jamia Nagar, >> > Delhi. The Delhi Police (and its Special Cell) not only did not inform >> > any of the local citizens of the area before or during the operation >> > (while they gave prior information to the media), but also made no >> > effort to communicate to the frightened local residents afterwards >> > (even during their further arrests of youngsters from the locality), >> > while the theories of the encounter being fake were spreading in the >> > locality. Their encounter of 19th September 2008 was like a very >> > specialized surgical operation done on the body without giving it >> > anesthesia or stitching it back, or allowing it to heal. This simply >> > shows that they either look at the entire community with prejudice and >> > suspicion (of harbouring the terror within), or they are not genuinely >> > interested in uprooting the nuisance of terror, and only want to >> > continue showing to the world that Muslim terrorists exist. They >> > further infuriated many Muslims the next day by showcasing the three >> > arrested suspects to the media by covering their faces/heads in the >> > stereotypical pink Arab scarves, which is a clichéd symbol of orthodox >> > Muslims or Palestinian extremists. >> > >> > If the authorities start trusting the community and seriously involve >> > them in uprooting the internal terrorism, it may show better results >> > than secret raids and encounters. Some residents of Batla House >> > gathered outside the encounter site the next day said "even if there >> > were terrorists holed up in the flat, with weapons, there was a way to >> > peacefully flush them out. After all they were not holding any >> > hostages. The police knew their location in advance. It could have >> > taken some neighbours into confidence, emptied the entire >> > neighbourhood, blocked all exit paths from the flat, and then waited >> > (even if for days) until the boys got fed up or famished, and >> > surrendered. There were lots of possibilities, if there was a will." >> > What is required today is a confidence building between the police and >> > the people, and some kind citizen's initiatives or neighbourhood-watch >> > schemes, (which already exist in some of the posh areas of Indian >> > towns). >> > >> > The smaller towns (such as Azamgarh) or ghettoized localities (such as >> > Batla House) in the cities, where such initiatives are required more, >> > are unfortunately left to rot by our civic authorities. They could be >> > the breeding grounds of a lot of anti-social elements, but the >> > authorities are equally responsible for their sorry state. Thus, a >> > long-term solution to the mushrooming of internal terror is possible >> > only with a multi-pronged approach, the first requirement of which is >> > to eradicate the corruption and communal bias in the police >> > department, and make them people-friendly. They need to involve senior >> > and serious citizens of a locality to nab the likely culprits of >> > terror in their area. But this effort should not mean vigilance and >> > security measures so strict that they affect the privacy and trust >> > between people in a locality. >> > ==== >> > >> > Please join our facebook group to participate in this campaign: >> > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=124494910211 >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Sat Feb 14 11:30:14 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 11:30:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India In-Reply-To: <341380d00902132159i77fd8619uf6b9f963179826b7@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00902102206n6658ce1av6d91b914e76cacd2@mail.gmail.com> <426636.22503.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <341380d00902122114y33755a3eo6ee475b535ce9a8b@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00902132159i77fd8619uf6b9f963179826b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00902132200r53920149ic7bf0f742bdced97@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: anupam chakravartty Date: Feb 14, 2009 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India To: Aman Shanti Dear Aman, the idea is not to complicate the matters. it is to find out what these words could mean. i would love to see a properly worded appeal in which most extreme organisation is bound to participate and change things. i would again like to point out that it is in the very spirit in which this appeal is written is problemmatic. i will tell you why: 1. if you remember Bastar in 1970s and manipur and assam in 80s and 90s, for one extremist hiding in a village of certain taluka, several innocent villagers would be picked up by the authorities. there are hundreds of cases. in this case too, you asking the indian muslims to take part in finding the home grown terrorists almost reads that all this while indian muslims were the ones harbouring these criminals and now after reading your appeal they would inform the authorities about it. 2. " 'investigation of cases of the so-called home-bred Indian terrorists' where the appeal was made to involve sincere and peace-loving Indian Muslims to involve in the search of these home-bred 'terrorists'." well, for your kind of information, lakhs of muslim officers are serving various units of police, army, navy, air force and other security agencies. so are you trying to say that they have not been sincerely working. 3. if muslims were spared on 26/11, it doesnt mean they will have an influence over al-qaeda. this sectarian approach to resolve the crisis of our times will get all of us into big trouble. the remainder of trust that we all share would be converted into suspicion. i have a suggestion: why should not we all ... everyone ( i will stop at this) write an appeal which says bring the boys back home. the innocent ones who have been indoctrinated to fight against the established order. those who have taken the refuge of the gun. those who do not mind brandishing a trishul up one's chest. have u ever wondered what causes dissidence among this one section of the population -- youth? getting labelled by someone else at the moment when you don expect it. i would not like to comment further on this issue. i am not into facebook or other such things. the heading of this e-mail still says: *Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India* ...need i say more? best- anupam On 2/14/09, Aman Shanti wrote: > Dear Anupam > You seem to be not only complicating matters, you have also mis-read > the original appeal. It DID NOT say that "we dont want pakistani > agencies to probe into samjhauta blasts saying we (indians which > includes me and you) are quite capable of solving it". > In fact our appeal did not refer to Samjhauta blast at all. It clearly > said that "we don't want the our Islamic brothers from outside India > to come and safeguard Indian Muslims or take revenge for their > plight". That is what we are against. There was no mention of > investigation in that part of the appeal. The investigation comes in > the second part of the message and is only meant for "investigation of > cases of the so-called home-bred Indian terrorists" where the appeal > was made to involve sincere and peace-loving Indian Muslims to involve > in the search of these home-bred "terrorists". We think that our > appeal is beginning to address many subtleties and complexities of > regional terrorism - it is not a knee-jerk reaction or a frustration > of Indian Muslims, nor is it in response to a "Hindu majoritarian" > pressure on Muslims to make such appeals. We would request you to have > a look at our appeal at facebook or blog and then suggest what your > specific problems are. > > Aman > > On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 10:44 AM, anupam chakravartty > wrote: > > dear kshmendra, > > > > your very line that indian muslims should ask al-qaeda to stop terror > > attacks is problemmatic. hindu groups were responsible for the samjhauta > > express attacks as stated by police officials. are hindus ready to > > apologise and appeal to bajrang dal to stop the distribution of > > trishuls that has been happening in Orissa through Gujarat for killing > > muslims, christians and running various rackets, urge that they should > stop > > doing this? > > > > the aman-shanti mail clearly stated that they dont want pakistani > agencies > > to probe into samjhauta blasts saying we (indians which includes me and > > you) are quite capable of solving it ourselves. where as we (indians > > including me and you) dont mind FBI and Mossad coming here and solving > > 26/11, then also pointing severe discrepancies in our intelligence and > > policing. > > > > again, apologies for the delay and being unclear about my statements. > > > > regards > > anupam > > > > On 2/12/09, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > >> > >> Dear Anupam > >> > >> Would you please clarify who exactly is the "YOU" and the "YOUR" in your > >> words : > >> > >> "Yes, but you prefer mossad and FBI coming over as your security > agencies > >> are > >> not adequately equipped to investigate any case." > >> > >> Thanks > >> > >> Kshmendra > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> *From:* anupam chakravartty > >> *To:* sarai list > >> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 11, 2009 10:06:23 AM > >> *Subject:* Re: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop > hurting > >> and threatening India > >> > >> dear aman, shanti, peace and other such things, > >> > >> i would have supported this appeal had it not used these words: > >> > >> "Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its > >> allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world." > >> > >> why do indian muslims always have to give a certificate that they are > >> clean? > >> why? what is the difference between al-qaeda and you? both of you > judging > >> the plight of the identities ignoring the fact that conflicts are > directed > >> against weaker sections. > >> > >> and then you go on to say: > >> > >> The claim that "Indian Muslims are persecuted by Hindus, thus > >> world's Muslims need to save them". No, Thank you. We don't need the > >> outside saviors. > >> > >> Yes, but you prefer mossad and FBI coming over as your security agencies > >> are > >> not adequately equipped to investigate any case. Dont you? > >> > >> with best wishes, > >> > >> anupam > >> > >> > >> > >> On 2/11/09, Aman Shanti wrote: > >> > > >> > Dear friends > >> > Please see this news item, and also our appeal below. Kindly support > >> > our appeal by sending the message across to many friends so that a > >> > better sense prevails in this world: > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/PoliticsNation/Al_Qaeda_threatens_to_attack_India_for_the_first_time/articleshow/4109243.cms > >> > ------ > >> > > >> > Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its > >> > allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world. > >> > Islam does not approve the killing of innocent people. Peace-loving > >> > Muslims must join hands to convince these extremist elements to desist > >> > from their path of terror. Here is an appeal (which is also available > >> > on facebook) that needs your support: > >> > > >> > Indian Muslims Against Terrorism > >> > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=124494910211 > >> > > >> > Why only Indian Muslims – everyone should be against terrorism. Yes, > >> > true - but this group has a certain mandate that related mostly to > >> > Indian Muslims (although all others are welcome to join and > >> > participate in this forum). We wish to focus on a few specific points > >> > that are important to address the issue of regional terrorism. There > >> > are two basic claims (made by some), which we want to address here: > >> > > >> > 1. The claim that "Indian Muslims are persecuted by Hindus, thus > >> > world's Muslims need to save them". No, Thank you. We don't need the > >> > outside saviors. > >> > > >> > 2. The claim that "now there are home-bred Muslim terrorists in India > >> > that need to be nabbed." Ok, if this is true, then please involve > >> > sincere and peace-loving Indian Muslims in the search for such > >> > extremist elements in India's Muslim localities, instead of randomly > >> > arresting and killing them in encounters. > >> > > >> > The above two points are detailed here: > >> > > >> > (1) There is an assumption or discourse coming out of some Muslim > >> > countries (such as Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia and others) > >> > that "Muslims in India are being victimized and tortured by the Hindus > >> > (for example in Gujarat, Kashmir, Ayodhya etc.), and since they are in > >> > great danger and helpless in the hands of Hindu extremists, it is the > >> > duty of Muslims all over the world to go and save them, and revenge > >> > their killings and persecution, by terrorizing the Hindus and damaging > >> > the economic might of India." It has been reported that such discourse > >> > is part of the training given to the terrorists who allegedly carry > >> > out attacks in India. While we don't know for sure if the "terrorists" > >> > are given such propaganda, but we assume that many Muslims outside > >> > India may certainly have such an impression about India, as one can > >> > see in some of the media in the Muslim world. > >> > > >> > We agree that Muslims in India have been subjected to a lot of > >> > violence, torture, prejudice and injustice at various times, probably > >> > in the same way as other minorities like dalits (low-caste Hindus), > >> > tribals, and women etc. have been treated. But we wish to convey to > >> > the "Islamic world" that WE DO NOT NEED THE HELP OF SAVIOURS FROM > >> > OUTSIDE India to fight our struggles. (By struggle, we don't mean > >> > violent revenge for the injustice, but a simple struggle for survival, > >> > and recourse to the law, which luckily is not hopeless in India). > >> > Muslims have been living in India for last one millennium, sometimes > >> > peacefully and sometimes in conflict, but most of the times trying to > >> > carve out ways to co-exist with fellow Indians, and make India a > >> > progressive country. The contribution of Muslims to the progress of > >> > India need not be repeated here. The bottom-line is: They cannot go > >> > anywhere else – India is their home, and they have to struggle here > >> > like everyone else. So, please don't meddle into our affairs. > >> > > >> > This plea is especially for those powerful institutions/organizations > >> > in countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan who deliberately support > >> > terrorism and violence against India and Hindus. You don't realize > >> > that every time there is a terrorist attack in India, although a lot > >> > of non-Muslims get killed or affected, but the ultimate loss is that > >> > of Indian Muslims. They are the ones who are seen more and more as > >> > culprits and a subject of hate and prejudice. It is our children (with > >> > Muslim names) who are taunted in Indian schools as "Pakistanis", and > >> > it is we who cannot rent a house in a mainstream colony because of our > >> > Muslim tag, all because of you. So, our Islamic brothers, YOU ARE NOT > >> > HELPING US come out of our suffering at all. You are actually pushing > >> > us further into a furnace by carrying out the terrorist attacks on > >> > "Hindus". We request and plead you to have mercy on this beautiful > >> > country and the world, and stop your senseless jihad. If you are told > >> > that you will to go to heaven (and get houris) when you die for the > >> > cause of Islam, you are highly mistaken and misled. You will surely > >> > burn in hell for harming innocent people. This world is not only for > >> > Muslims – it is for everyone; whatever religion or culture they may > >> > follow. So, live and let live. > >> > > >> > (2) The above message was meant for the "terrorists" infiltrating from > >> > outside India and their supporters/sympathizers. And now for the > >> > "home-grown" breed of terrorists. After the horrific 9/11 attacks, it > >> > was reported by many that among the Muslim terrorists operating all > >> > over the world, there are actually no Indian Muslims involved. > >> > (Although Indian media and intelligence department had been claiming > >> > since many years that Muslim madrasas are the breeding grounds of > >> > terrorism, but not a single Indian madrasa has so far been found to be > >> > involved in such activity). Every one was happy and proud about the > >> > news of India Muslims' non-involvement in terrorism. But suddenly, > >> > after the 2002 Gujarat pogrom, it was reported that Muslims residing > >> > in India are becoming terrorists too, and many of them highly > >> > educated-ones (engineers, doctors, IT professionals, etc.). They use > >> > new technology of Internet, cell-phones and deadly explosive material > >> > supplied by their counterparts from across the border. > >> > > >> > Subsequently, hundreds of young boys from Muslim localities have been > >> > arrested and tortured by the Indian police, some even killed in > >> > encounters. But most of them so far have only been accused and almost > >> > none ultimately convicted or punished for an act of terrorism, due to > >> > a lack of substantial evidence against them. Most Muslims and some > >> > human rights activists argue that those arrested or killed Muslim boys > >> > have nothing to do with terrorist activities and have been framed > >> > wrongly. After seeing the adverse role of the police in recent > >> > incidents such as an encounter at Batla House (Delhi) in September > >> > 2008 where 2 such accused (and a police inspector) were killed, the > >> > Muslim community has lost all faith in the police and intelligence > >> > agencies, fearing that due to their prejudice they could arrest and > >> > kill any Muslim at will in their war against terror. Their > >> > investigations are not transparent, their proofs are not convincing, > >> > and their encounters with terrorists look stage-managed. > >> > > >> > However, such a reaction from Muslims is also considered by some as a > >> > "denial mode", and it is suggested (especially by the mainstream > >> > media) that Muslims need to come out of this mode and accept the > >> > reality that home-bred terrorists do exist in the community, > >> > especially since those who carried out the recent blasts (in 2008) did > >> > claim that they are "home-bred" terrorists. If the internal Muslims > >> > are truly involved in such activities, and if we are serious about > >> > nabbing and punishing them, it would be good for the peace-loving > >> > Muslims themselves to come forward and make a strategy to help > >> > eradicate this menace, rather than to leave it only to the > >> > state-forces. Here is some advices worth considering: > >> > > >> > It is accepted by the media and the police that all Muslims are not > >> > terrorists, but some Muslims do resort to extremism and violence, and > >> > that the peace-loving intelligentsia among the Muslim community should > >> > take responsibility to root out the bad elements. This is often > >> > repeated on every news channel and newspaper after every attack: > >> > Secular and elite Muslims need to sift out the extremist elements in > >> > their community. Well, no right thinking Muslim can deny this > >> > responsibility and there are many who are eagerly ready to play that > >> > role. But terrorism or extremist elements of the society cannot be > >> > eradicated by only their efforts, if the govt. and the police > >> > themselves have been unable to do so. They need the same logistical > >> > support and resources to bring out any change in the community, which > >> > the authorities use. In fact, a more practical idea today would be an > >> > active coordination between the intelligence agencies, the police, the > >> > judiciary and the responsible people in the Muslim community. But for > >> > that to happen, the first and foremost requirement is for the > >> > officials to TRUST THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY. It is a widely known fact > >> > that the number and ratio of Muslims in Indian security forces, > >> > police, intelligence, ministries and other important institutions is > >> > very abysmal – at least not proportionate to their population. > >> > Moreover, in the war against the terror, the authorities never talk to > >> > the responsible people from the community leave aside involving them > >> > actively. > >> > > >> > A specific recent case that can serve as an example: > >> > > >> > Take the case of the recent police-terrorist encounter at Jamia Nagar, > >> > Delhi. The Delhi Police (and its Special Cell) not only did not inform > >> > any of the local citizens of the area before or during the operation > >> > (while they gave prior information to the media), but also made no > >> > effort to communicate to the frightened local residents afterwards > >> > (even during their further arrests of youngsters from the locality), > >> > while the theories of the encounter being fake were spreading in the > >> > locality. Their encounter of 19th September 2008 was like a very > >> > specialized surgical operation done on the body without giving it > >> > anesthesia or stitching it back, or allowing it to heal. This simply > >> > shows that they either look at the entire community with prejudice and > >> > suspicion (of harbouring the terror within), or they are not genuinely > >> > interested in uprooting the nuisance of terror, and only want to > >> > continue showing to the world that Muslim terrorists exist. They > >> > further infuriated many Muslims the next day by showcasing the three > >> > arrested suspects to the media by covering their faces/heads in the > >> > stereotypical pink Arab scarves, which is a clichéd symbol of orthodox > >> > Muslims or Palestinian extremists. > >> > > >> > If the authorities start trusting the community and seriously involve > >> > them in uprooting the internal terrorism, it may show better results > >> > than secret raids and encounters. Some residents of Batla House > >> > gathered outside the encounter site the next day said "even if there > >> > were terrorists holed up in the flat, with weapons, there was a way to > >> > peacefully flush them out. After all they were not holding any > >> > hostages. The police knew their location in advance. It could have > >> > taken some neighbours into confidence, emptied the entire > >> > neighbourhood, blocked all exit paths from the flat, and then waited > >> > (even if for days) until the boys got fed up or famished, and > >> > surrendered. There were lots of possibilities, if there was a will." > >> > What is required today is a confidence building between the police and > >> > the people, and some kind citizen's initiatives or neighbourhood-watch > >> > schemes, (which already exist in some of the posh areas of Indian > >> > towns). > >> > > >> > The smaller towns (such as Azamgarh) or ghettoized localities (such as > >> > Batla House) in the cities, where such initiatives are required more, > >> > are unfortunately left to rot by our civic authorities. They could be > >> > the breeding grounds of a lot of anti-social elements, but the > >> > authorities are equally responsible for their sorry state. Thus, a > >> > long-term solution to the mushrooming of internal terror is possible > >> > only with a multi-pronged approach, the first requirement of which is > >> > to eradicate the corruption and communal bias in the police > >> > department, and make them people-friendly. They need to involve senior > >> > and serious citizens of a locality to nab the likely culprits of > >> > terror in their area. But this effort should not mean vigilance and > >> > security measures so strict that they affect the privacy and trust > >> > between people in a locality. > >> > ==== > >> > > >> > Please join our facebook group to participate in this campaign: > >> > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=124494910211 > >> > _________________________________________ > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> > subscribe in the subject header. > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > >> > >> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From khurramparvez at yahoo.com Sat Feb 14 12:14:15 2009 From: khurramparvez at yahoo.com (Khurram Parvez) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 22:44:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Memorandum on Human Rights, Peace, and Social Justice Message-ID: <372426.8634.qm@web31804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Friends, Below is the text of the memorandum on Human Rights, Peace, and Social Justice sent to the Chief Minister of Jammu and Kashmir Mr. Omar Abdullah on behalf of International People's Tribunal on Human Rights and Justice in Indian Administered Kashmir. Regards, Khurram   =====================================   To: Mr. Omar Abdullah Chief Minister Jammu and Kashmir   From: The International People's Tribunal on Human Rights and Justice in Kashmir   Conveners: Dr. Angana Chatterji, Associate Professor, Anthropology, California Institute of Integral Studies Advocate Parvez Imroz, Founder, Jammu and Kashmir Coalition of Civil Society Gautam Navlakha, Editorial Consultant, Economic and Political Weekly Zahir-Ud-Din, Vice-President, Jammu and Kashmir Coalition of Civil Society   Legal Counsel: Advocate Mihir Desai, Mumbai High Court, Supreme Court of India, Co-founder, Indian People's Tribunal   Liaison: Khurram Parvez, Programme Coordinator, Jammu and Kashmir Coalition of Civil Society   February 11, 2009   Re.: Memorandum on Human Rights, Peace, and Social Justice   Dear Mr. Omar Abdullah:   We write you today on behalf of the International People's Tribunal on Human Rights and Justice in Indian-administered Kashmir. [A brief on the Tribunal's premise and objectives may be found at: http://www.kashmirprocess.org/premise.html.]   We write, mindful that you have promised attentiveness and accountability to human rights issues in Kashmir, to bring to your attention the need for appropriate action with regard to the following:   1. Disappearances: You have raised issues of enforced disappearances in Kashmir in the past. We ask that you order a full-scale investigation under provisions of the Commissions of Inquiry Act, 1952, and/or other relevant laws, within a stipulated and reasonable timeframe.   We ask as well that all laws of Jammu and Kashmir incorporate the premise of the United Nations Declaration on the Protection of All Persons From Enforced Disappearance, the International Convention for the Protection of All Persons from Enforced Disappearance, and the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment.   2. Killing by Police Firings, Fake Encounter Killings, and Extrajudicial Killings: We ask that you use all authority granted you by law to take strong and effective preventive measures to ensure that these are not repeated. As well, we urge that the cases that have been pending in courts, and those that have not been filed, be expeditiously dealt with and the perpetrators be brought to justice. We ask that the Government of Jammu and Kashmir follow the cases pending for sanctions before the Government of India's Home Ministry under Section 7 of Armed Forces Special Powers Act, 1958, (AFSPA). We ask that the state make public the number of cases in which sanctions have been sought from the Government of India, and the number of cases in which the same have been granted.   3. Mass Graves: We note the existence of mass graves in Kashmir, as verified by the Association of Parents of Disappeared Persons and the International People's Tribunal for Human Rights and Justice in Kashmir in 2008. We note that there are connections between the number of persons disappeared and these unmarked, unidentified, nameless, and unknown graves. We also note that various international institutions and bodies, such as the European Parliament, have referred to this issue and made recommendations for action. We ask that your government offer protection to the sites to not permit their desecration or destruction, enable independent and transparent investigations drawing upon varied, credible, and international expertise, and institute an independent and transparent judicial commission of inquiry.   4. Torture: It has been acknowledged by international human rights organizations that the use of torture by military and paramilitary forces is widespread in Kashmir. [See documentations available at http://www.kashmirprocess.org/resources.html.] As well, the Government of India is yet to ratify the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, although it has been a signatory since October 1997. In this context, we ask that the Government of Jammu and Kashmir institute a comprehensive ban on practises of torture as defined by international law and humanitarian ethics.   5. Detention and Torture Centres: We ask that unlawful detention and torture centres, including in army camps, be identified, made public, and banned. Further, we ask that appropriate reparations be determined and undertaken with regard to unlawful and unconstitutional practises undertaken in these camps and centres. We ask that international institutions, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), be permitted to visit the above places to assess the situation independently.   6. Gendered and Sexualized Violences: We note the severity of gendered and sexualized violences that have been perpetrated in Kashmir in the last two decades. Women and children, and others, have been victimized by horrific forms of brutality, including rape, gang and collective rape, perpetrated on women. Other categories of victimization include women whose male partners are missing, labelled ‘half-widows’. Women and children, and others, have been subjected to physical and psychological torture and trauma, and social and literal displacements. We note the urgency of undertaking ethical, transparent, and independent assessments of the above in conditions that ensure the safety and security of the survivors/victims, and undertaking requisite reparations and rehabilitation.   7. Prisoners Rights: We ask that prisoners’ rights not be violated, and that medical aid be readily made available, and that the right to legal counsel, due process, fair and speedy trials be upheld.   8. Rights of Former Militants: We ask that the civil liberties of former militants and their families be respected. We note that the civic and political rights of former militants, who are now living different and committed lives, continue to be violated by personnel of the military and paramilitary forces. We note that some of them have been subjected to torture after serving sentences and deemed 'rehabilitated' by the justice system. We note that many still have to report to local camps of the security forces on a weekly basis. We note as well that former militants and their families continue to be subjected to maltreatment and denied access to social life, such as to institutions, employment, and pensions.   9. Juvenile Justice: We ask that youth not be taken into custody, held, or tried as adults, and that their rights to legal counsel, due process, and fair and speedy trials be upheld. We ask that a law be enacted that guarantees juvenile justice, that safeguards the rights of juveniles in conflict with law, and neglected and destitute juveniles.   We note that young people in general, particularly girls and young women, must be guaranteed an environment free of sexual harassment and violence.   We note that young people need to be guaranteed freedom from forms of harassment that undermine their right to education. Impediment to livelihood of adults creates economic insecurity that impacts youth. Family livelihood insecurity compels youth to earn income rather than foreground education and development. Proximity to systemic violence produces severe emotional trauma that manifests as depression, suicidal behaviours, self-medication through drugs, as well as retreat and isolation as coping strategies. There are inadequate provisions to address these issues and respond to these needs. We urge recognition of this reality and the allocation of resources to address these issues.   10. Access to Justice: We ask that all persons seeking to access institutions of law and justice be retreated with respect and non-violence by law enforcement agencies. We note that, in countless instances, complaints are disregarded by the police, false first information reports (FIRs) filed, and people's request to file FIRS are met with disrespect, even force.   11. Landmines: We note that the placement of landmines along the border and other sensitive areas in Jammu and Kashmir continues to endanger lives, including those of children. While the Government of India is not a signatory to the Convention on the Prohibition of the Use, Stockpiling, Production and Transfer of Anti-Personnel Mines and on their Destruction, and has continued to justify landmine use in Jammu and Kashmir, we ask that the Government of Jammu and Kashmir institute a comprehensive ban on the use of landmines. We ask that an audit be conducted to ascertain the impact of landmines on local communities, to determine the extent of casualties, devastation, and displacement, and undertake rehabilitation of those affected and de-mining.   12. Transparency: We urge that the Government of Jammu and Kashmir ensure that international organizations and institutions, that have access to other places, are allowed to visit Jammu and Kashmir. We note that the ability of international institutions to work with local civil society institutions in Jammu and Kashmir is crucial to interrupting isolation and producing accountability.   We ask that thousands of families who have been denied passports, including human rights defenders and journalists, be provided the same.   We ask that, prior to contractual agreements and implementation, all development projects be assessed for their human rights implications.   13. Laws and States of Exception: We note your commitment to the revocation and withdrawal of security related legislation that has been in contravention of international humanitarian laws and norms, such as the Armed Forces Special Powers Act, 1958, (AFSPA), enacted in Jammu and Kashmir in 1990, the Disturbed Areas Act, 1976, enacted in Jammu and Kashmir in 1992, and the Jammu and Kashmir Public Safety Act of 1978. We reiterate the urgent need for the revocation of the Armed Forces Special Powers Act, 1958, the Disturbed Areas Act, 1976, the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act, 1967, and the Jammu and Kashmir Public Safety Act of 1978. We also note that continued criminal proceedings using the Prevention of Terrorism Act, 2002, and the Terrorist and Disruptive Activities (Prevention) Act, 1985, 1987, must be stopped.   While the safety and security of citizens must remain of paramount concern, we ask that you remain vigilant to the problematic parameters and consequences of certain national security laws used to proscribe political dissent and deny freedom of expression, freedom of speech, and freedom of assembly, and deny the democratic right to peaceful mobilization and dissent. We note that certain national security laws, in name of retributive justice, have been/may be used to perpetrate state violence, subvert due process of law, undermine civil liberties, and freedom of the press, eroding rule of law, permitting torture and sexualized violence on those in state custody, criminalizing innocent persons, and, in effect, undermining the safety and security of citizens.   14. Commissions of Inquiry: We ask that the reports and/or findings of various Commissions of Inquiry that have been instituted to inquire into instances of gross violations of human rights, law, and social justice be made public and that these commissions be ordered to complete their charge. Further, from available information, we register our concern that between 2000-2007 only three statutory inquiries have been commissioned and that other inquiries instituted have been magisterial and administrative probes. We ask that, based on ethical assessments of gross violations of human rights, law, and social justice, relevant statutory inquiries be ordered, as appropriate, to investigate these crimes. We ask that various agencies, including military and paramilitary institutions, be required to cooperate with instituted commissions in order that they may carry out their investigations. We ask that the recommendations of the commissions be enacted.   15. Minorities: We note that peace and reconciliation requires commitment to minority rights and issues, and the ethical and transparent resolution of injustices. We ask that an audit be conducted to ascertain the status of minorities in Kashmir, and related to the displacement, dislocation, and rehabilitation of minorities in Jammu and Kashmir, to propose mechanisms for reparation and reconciliation.   16. Truth and Reconciliation Commission: We note your public commitment to instituting a 'Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC)'. We are hopeful that you will appreciate that such a process must facilitate the implementation of justice as a precondition to reconciliation. We further note that the viability and success of a TRC is only possible in a context where demilitarization has taken place, enabling a social context in which the will and freedom of the people of Kashmir can be exercised.   17. In conclusion, we write you today mindful of how the conditions for peace and prosperity are linked to the possibility and necessity of justice in Kashmir. We understand the work of the International People's Tribunal for Human Rights and Justice in Kashmir as enabling the work of justice. Toward that, we hope and expect that the Tribunal will continue to undertake its work in conditions that are not impeded.   Yours Sincerely,   Angana Chatterji, Parvez Imroz, Gautam Navlakha, Zahir-Ud-Din, Mihir Desai, Khurram Parvez   Contact: Khurram Parvez E-mail: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org T: +91-194-2482820 M: +91-9419013553 From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Feb 14 13:26:01 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 13:26:01 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Pink Condom Campaign In-Reply-To: References: <6353c690902130415g55255299kac92bd7ab047708b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear all I am posting this article from Outlook, which gives a clear insight on the issue raised from the Mangalore pub attacks. http://outlookindia.com/fullprint.asp?choice=1&fodname=20090213&fname=nitasha&sid=1 Print This Page Web| Feb 13, 2009 Opinion * Wine, Women, Valentine * * While the Mangalore attacks were exclusively of Hindu right-wing provenance, the underlying prejudices that enable these to happen, or condone them ex-post facto, are widely shared* NITASHA KAUL Tradition is a story that every generation fabricates anew. Each time a past is recreated, it serves a purpose. Cultures are ways of being that evolve in the face of tradition. To say that there is an Indian culture that must be protected from the influences of 'Westernisation' or 'negative modernity', or that certain kinds of cultures must 'stop' (Indian Minister Ramadoss recently said, "pub culture must stop") is fundamentally wrong because imposing values upon others is not democracy but dictatorship. The recent physical and verbal attacks on pub-going women and men in India are part of a larger narrative of moral policing that requires analysis. While the Mangalore attacks were exclusively of Hindu right-wing provenance, the underlying prejudices around wine, women and Valentine that enable it to happen, or condone it ex-post facto, are widely shared. The controversy over 'pub culture' is ultimately about an inability to trust one's own judgments over others. Why seek to protect women from making their choices about their lifestyle? Why seek to protect young people (both men and women) from going out and mingling? This is because the 'moral police' believe that : first, their prescribed ways of behaviour are not likely to prevail by consent alone because people will not like them or because they will not make rational sense to others, and second, because they do not trust the capability or conscience of others in how they will lead their lives. As a result, they resort to coercion, and in the case of Mangalore, outright violence against young women and men who choose to be different from them. The mere word 'drinking' in Indian popular imagination immediately conjures images of drunken disorderliness and lecherous behaviour after copious imbibing of spirits. The idea that someone could peaceably enjoy a drink with friends and music is exotic (permissive ancients are exotic anyway and the tribals and 'lower' castes who drink can't help being who they are). For the guardians of aggregate morality, men taking alcohol is bad enough -- the writer Vikram Sethwas slated in the regional press after he appeared on stage sipping wine at a session of the Jaipur Literature festival -- but women taking alcohol is unimaginably perverted. Women and alcohol appear together generally in three kinds of Indian contexts -- one, the 'fallen' brothel woman who may knowingly drink, two, the suffering wife of an alcoholic husband who tolerates alcohol and may be forced to sip it (Meena Kumari in the famous movie * Sahib, Bibi aur Ghulam * says to her wayward husband that she has even drunk alcohol because of him and so made the ultimate sacrifice that a wife can make), and three, the righteous female activists who rail against alcohol shops that corrupt society (often justifiably, such as in 1990s when women in Andhra Pradesh protested against their husbands spending entire household incomes on toddy). Add to these three contexts, the special one of Bollywood heroines drinking alcohol on screen. If the woman in a film drinks and she is not villainous, she will be reformed and shown the error of her ways after finding the love of a man; either she will be an Indian resident abroad or an unsuspecting innocent who has taken alcohol without knowing what it is ('Cognac is not alcohol' was the refrain to which one diva drank on screen). Against this, imagine women with men and money going out to a pub and consuming alcohol. For the zealots, it is hell. The idea that women can choose to have lifestyles as diverse as those of men is not acceptable to the moderates either. This is because it upsets hierarchies. What begins with a vote leads to a job, then to the possibility of love-marriages and divorce, co-habitation without marriage, maybe a refusal to have children, and then to social catastrophe. That's the fear of the 'good folk' (including 'liberal' men and women) who would like women to study but mostly to earn, earn but not work late, dress 'decently' to avoid male lust, have arranged marriages (or the trendy semi-arranged ones where the lover is chosen by family but some courtship thereafter ensues, in any case the man thus chosen is always older, taller, and earns more), give up jobs to bring up children, economise at home, and for entertainment: if bright, read pulp fiction, if rich, morph into a socialite, if neither, watch cable TV serials pioneered by Ekta Kapoor which are a rage nationally, and depict the women soaking in makeup and jewellery. On average -- despite some progress in some urban quarters -- women in India have an undoubtedly inferior existence compared to men. Progress is made everyday, statistics improve on female literacy, mortality, labour force participation; women come into prominence in public life and an earlier generation of women heroes are recovered from obscurity. Nonetheless, women having an education largely does not mean that they are able to choose their life partners or their lifestyles (educated women still have to face arranged marriages and doubledays), or even want to do so. They are respected only so long as they adhere to certain restrictive norms. Leave alone going to pubs, smoking, drinking or being intimate with men, how many widows manage to remarry if they want to? How many single working women feel secure living alone? How many women inherit or own property? How many women are harassed every day within the household and outside? The laws, even when they exist to protect the rights of women, in practice often don't lead to justice in the face of a nexus between law makers and law enforcers who share similar gender prejudices. Moreover, even the letter of the law is seeped in patriarchal assumptions about the provider and protected roles of men and women respectively - else why have an age of marriage that is 21 years for men but 18 for women? Amorous expression on St. Valentine's Day is a perfect symbolic target for the amorphous but endangered 'culture'. For the moral police, February 14th is a celebration that is new to India, and foreign, western, perverse. They threaten that couples seen together will be forcibly married. This leads to hilarious possibilities: should gay couples and lovers facing parental or societal opposition to their marriages hang around hoping to be married off? Some youngsters have wondered if their being below the legal marriage age not make the Sri Ram Sene guilty of breaking the law? This shows both a ridiculous immaturity in understanding intimacy and an idiotic faith in the institution of marriage. Come Saturday, these merchants of morality will go about touting the no-refund, no-exchange package deal of marriage, sex, love (strictly in that order); chase lovers, burn cards with hearts on them, beat up people. What is at stake is not 'our cultural values' but the 'value and culture of a democracy'.A much-publicized internet group formed on Facebook says it will give the moral brigade pink underwear (setting off retaliatory campaigns to return the compliments with pink sarees and then back again pink condoms ) -- such a to-and-fro stunt protests are still relatively rare in India (where burning effigies is more standard). Yet, neither this trite symbolism nor the commercial overselling of Valentine's Day will help the earnest (albeit scheming) young individuals in small cities who want to experience love and life on their own terms. Lovers are not always martyrs, but the expanding moral brigade in India, would seem to leave them no choice. Moral policing is an insidious aspect of postcolonial states on the subcontinent. Being a democracy means commitment to freedom of expression, but it also involves a certain level of commitment to individualism. Democracies reconcile values: procedurally, by elections and elaborate governance mechanisms through which administrative power can operate, and substantially, by facilitating discussion and allowing for individuals to have their say in the system. When India became free at the proverbial stroke of midnight in 1947, there was a desire to define its purity in opposition to the moral decadence of the colonising West. The postcolonial entity India, created with a rupture and greeted with rapture, sought to create unity in diversity by appealing to a sense of civic morality springing from emergent nationalism. But this civic ethic in India did not evolve alongside the coming-into-being of democratic principles at the level of the nation-state (unlike England, for example, where the two grew together). Democracy in India had to shoulder a greater responsibility (and this it is still remarkable) in bringing people and their conflicting views together. To put it simply, unlike places where the relationship between people and state and between people and people co-evolved over long runs of time, in postcolonial India, the relationship between people and state had to itself be the basis for developing the relationship between people and people. In such a scenario, when people feel disappointed in the expectations of their hierarchical relationship with the state, they try to forcibly replicate their values in the civic domain, and the people to people relationship becomes the target of a violence which is legitimised by claims to preservation of culture. Yet, the outburst of the moral police is not a random spontaneous expression of emasculated men enraged by class-envy. It is a moment in the larger scheme of things. The middle path of the middle classes may have meandered off-course by the desires of seductive capitalism, especially following on from 1991 and the heady 'opening up' of the economy. Along with economic liberalisation, there has been a corresponding consensus in large parts of the political mainstream regarding the need for private enterprise, deregulation, competitiveness, and so on.In this political climate, the social domain has become the grounds for differentiation between the mainstream parties. Often, the mall is an incontestable destination for the successful Indian; no political party would earnestly oppose an unending consumption of goods. What will differentiate them then? Precisely their stance on social issues. By rallying people around 'moral values' -- that have to do with surface modernity: what we wear, what we eat, where we go for entertainment -- as opposed to a substantive modernity: how we deal with unequal hierarchies, what are the rights of those most trammelled upon, how aware are we of goings-on in the wider world -- such self-styled vigilantes can create disaffected psyches that could become easy vote-banks upon alignment with some bigger party once the media attention is gained. So these spectacles of vigilantism are coordinated and filmed without fail when the intent is to gain political mileage. Moral policing in India is a mix of criminal hooliganism, gender hypocrisy, and political opportunism. At the time of new year in 2008, women in Mumbai were punched and had their clothes torn off by hooligans, every so often newspapers in India carry reports of revengeful acid attacks on women, women with men are chased and assaulted for taking alcohol or going to a pub, working women are shot dead in metropolitan cities when out late, couples are threatened on Valentine's day, women, in particular, with infamy -- is this the image of a democracy? Politicians choose to lament the loss of Indian culture when women drink alcohol, yet when did groups of drunken women drive by shooting people or throwing glass bottles at them (something that has been easy to find men doing in cities)? Moral policing is also about reserving certain codes of behaviour for certain actors. It is not only women but a certain view of 'femininity' that the moral brigade cherish to the point of violence. A respectably feminine woman whose choices reflect the approval of those around her, who grooms herself to be a good wife and mother and whose sexuality exists to please her owner (read husband, hence change of surname) alone, is the ideal. Women who live for themselves, who do not conform to the ideal, or men who are not 'masculine' enough and are with such women or those who condone their behaviour are seen as illegitimate subjects of the state and a threat to society. They are a threat because their actions can have a demonstration effect on others; in such a situation the norm would itself require an explanation. It is much simpler to appeal to tradition and condemn a suitably adjectivised (western/perverted/foreign/ debilitating/dangerous) modernity. Certain clarifications are in order, let us take the argument about the problems caused by excessive alcohol consumption -- health effects, public order problems, motivational issues. These are the effects of alcoholism, not of social drinking as entertainment. To make these points, as several Indian politicians have done, at this particular juncture of events, betrays an unease that is not about health and alcohol alone but about gender and alcohol. However, being in the public eye, it is easier to be a hypocrite professing health concerns than to genuinely debate the underlying discomfort that both men and women have when they see others making the choices that they personally cannot agree with. As for the plaint that women are objectified by such modes of existence (going to pubs, wearing trendy clothes), it should be clear that the commercialism and consumerism that leads to a fulfilment of the capitalist dream across ever larger parts of the globe today, does not commodify women alone. It commodifies the human body and translates our desires into objects that refer to other objects in turn. Moral policing of a woman's right to entertain herself is no way of asserting an unease with the vanishing dividing line between people and things. In a free and democratic set-up, the state can provide information on alternative modes of existence, but unless one's actions are verifiably causing a negative externality (imposing a cost on someone else), it cannot conservatively stack a 'public interest' veneer to the consequences of moral policing (as several Chief Ministers have publicly done). A toss for Andumani Ramadoss (union health minister) who stated his ostensibly neutral discomfort with the pub-culture and Indian ethos disconnect only when the moral police were in action, and a cautious cheer for Renuka Choudhary's (union women and child development minister) 'Pub Bharo Andolan' (Fill the Pubs Campaign) which, at least as an immediate reaction of symbolic solidarity, is correct in principle, though it might not succeed as a strategy because of its potential to polarise. The multiplicity of legitimate and non-violent protest is essential to democracy and moral policing should be tackled not just in the political domain but also at the cultural level. The pub as a social site is not alien to any culture, including Indian culture; it merely takes different forms. The women and men at pubs this Valentine's Day could recall one of the most famous and beautiful Hindi verses entitled *The Madhushala* (*The House of Wine*, by Harivansh Rai Bachchan, published in 1935; incidentally a condemnatory Fatwa was also issued against this poem in Lucknow, India in 2008) which celebrates the curious wine of life itself. No human society has survived without its intoxicants. Neither has any flourished without a constant scrutiny of moral strictures. Consciousness is our heaviest burden as human beings. ------------------------------ *Dr Nitasha Kaul is a writer and academic based in London. She has authored books, articles, poetry and a novel on identity in various contexts*. ------------------------------ \ From lists at shivamvij.com Sat Feb 14 14:48:48 2009 From: lists at shivamvij.com (Shivam V) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 14:48:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Pink Condom Campaign In-Reply-To: <6353c690902130415g55255299kac92bd7ab047708b@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690902130415g55255299kac92bd7ab047708b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1fd66c110902140118y6f0fe2a0xf835bd01cbe5aff@mail.gmail.com> This has the trademark of Aditya Rak Kaul & co. written all over it - ranging from "sickulars" to intimidation (giving out others' phone numbers), etc. So what's the point of claiming anonymity and making a fool of yourself? And why give it away that you're plain jealous that somebody else has pulled off a bigger online campaign than you ever did ("media surely won't promote us as they did to *Pink Chaddi walas"). Or is that just a ploy to make sure news editors publish/air stories about this one? But then who will give interviews, Aditya Raj Kaul's ghost? And what makes you think gifting condoms to self-confessed "Pub-Going, Loose and Forward Women" would constitute insult and protest - condoms for them are not what pink chaddis are for Shri Ram Sene. Next time, think better. And 'inflated figures of support'? Evidence please. The number of people on that Facebook group are for all to see - 38,844 as I type. It's interesting that you don't support the Mangalore pub attack (I take your word) but oppose the Pink Chaddi campaign. And why? Because Hindus and RSS are being portrayed in a bad light. If it is, then it is by the Shri Ram Sene. Shri Ram Sene is fringe, radical Hindutva not formally aligned with RSS. The truth is, you are uncomfortable that somebody speaking in the name of Ram is being portrayed in bad light, that the pink chaddi campaign is making sure that Ram's Army is getting a bad name worldwide. If only you were to realise that it is their own actions that are bringing a bad name to them, and a great embarrassment to all those who have great respect, admiration and faith in Ram across South and south-east asia. But you can't join liberals and you you can't join the fundoos either. The liberals are of your class but the fundoos in this case are of your political persuasion - if only the poor souls had accepted ARK's leadership and not made this small mistake. But they did this in a calculated way to grab media attention, something they perhaps learnt from you! And now when a liberal set knows how to exploit the gimmick and visual-hungry beast that is the media, that's salt on your wounds. How I love you dilemma. May the hydra-headed Hindutva monster keep giving you such dilemmas and preventing the forward march of Hindu fundamentalism in the Republic of India. Jai hind shivam On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > The Pink Condom Campaign > Link - http://www.thepinkcondomcampaign.blogspot.com/ > > *What is Pink Condom campaign?* > > This campaign has been started as a response to some self righteous and > progressive people who started the *Pink > Chaddi > * campaign. Their chaddi campaign ends on Valentine's Day of 2009, but this > is just a beginning for us. > > We are more democratic and transparent that the *Pink Chaddi walas*. We > don't claim inflated figures of support. There is a poll at the right hand > corner of this page, which shows how many people support us, and how many > don't! > > *Why condoms?* > > Condoms are necessary to save yourself from AIDS and to lead a progressive > and secular life. The *Pink Chaddi walas* claim themselves to be pubgoing, > loose and forward - a condom will help them maintain being that. > > *Who are we?* > > We are the ordinary Hindus, who don't bark on television channels to defend > our faith, but we definitely get hurt when some people bark against our > faith. > > We know that not everything is right with Hindu society, and things needs to > be improved upon. That's the whole essence of Hindu Dharma or Sanatana > Dharma – to constantly change and evolve. We don't need self-righteous > sickular (so-called seculars) to reform us. > > *Why are we anonymous?* > > Unlike *Pink Chaddi walas*, our intention is not to grab news headlines and > appear on Indian and international television (what else do you think > sending *chaddis *will achieve?). We are just trying to convey a message – > you reap what you sow. > > *Why this opposition to Pink Chaddi campaign?* > > Because the campaign tried to unnecessarily implicate an assertive Hindu and > RSS (they showed pictures of RSS members in a derogatory way) for Managolore > pub attack incident. RSS and Hindus didn't approve of Mangalore incident, > still they were demonized, which was result of a mentality which is full of > hatred towards Hinduism. > > *Do we support Sri Ram Sene?* > > Not at all for beating up women in Mangalore. We know nothing more about > them to declare an overall support or opposition. They don't really matter > to us. > > *Do we support RSS?* > > Yes and No. We support RSS for their social work and for fighting sickulars. > We support them because we hate Hindu haters like Christian Missionaries, > Jehadi Muslims and Indian Communists. We don't support them if they would > want to subjugate ordinary Christians and Muslims. > > *How can join Pink Condom campaign?* > > First, click on the poll on right hand corner and express your support (or > opposition). You can also join us on orkut and facebook and promote the > word, as media surely won't promote us as they did to *Pink Chaddi walas.* > > Secondly, send pink condoms (if you want to spend money, buy them, or just > send them colorful and creative picture of condoms) at following addresses, > or call up these people (*Pink Chaddi walas*, their contact numbers and > addresses were put up on *Pink Chaddi > *blog) > to know more: > > People to call: > > Benson (9845167575) > Areeba (9900569456) > Samir Gandhi (9246282223) > Kaushik (9703508756) > Nithin (9886081269) > Divya (9845535406) > Nisha (9811893733) > Vivek (9845591798) > Ratna (9899422513) > Padma (99400 25231) > Jeny (9840398852) > Aniruddh (98840 17695) > > > Addresses: > > Nisha Susan > C/o Tehelka > M76, M-Block Market > Greater Kailash 2 > > Ashwini > C-Wing, Lake Pleasant > Phase-2, Lake Homes > Powai > (Hand it over to the security guards in Mumbai) > > Shalini M > A1201 > Beaumonde Apts > Appasaheb Marathe marg > Near Chaitanya , opp Tata Motors > halfway between siddhivinayak/century mills > Prabhadevi – 400025 > > The Shakti Center/ Corporate Accountability Desk, > No: 42 A, I > floor,5 Avenue, > Besant Nagar, > Chennai - 600090 > > *We will remove the above contact details and names after they are removed > from the Pink Chaddi blog* > > *Why trouble these people?* > > We are not trying to trouble them. We are just asking you to send them *Pink > Condoms*, just like they have decided to send *Pink Chaddis *to *Sri Ram > Sene*, unsolicited. We believe that we have equal rights to protest in the > same manner as chosen by them. They might be good people, we are not > contesting that at all, but we just paying them in the same coin. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- mail at shivamvij dot com From lists at shivamvij.com Sat Feb 14 14:51:16 2009 From: lists at shivamvij.com (Shivam V) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 14:51:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The caste of a scam Message-ID: <1fd66c110902140121s573d90bbn23bf48ca0d94035f@mail.gmail.com> It is not by accident that independent directors, auditors, and CFOs associated with the Satyam scam have pleaded guilty to the lesser but more ignominious charge of incompetence than be arraigned for the higher crime of complicity in financial irregularities. The CFO of Satyam - Vadlamani Srinivas has confessed that he does "not pay much attention to the details of the balance sheet", and that he just passes the balance sheets and accounts statements prepared by his assistants. Perhaps the CFO was recruited on the basis of reservation and hence was incompetent and inefficient? He has also stated that PricewaterhouseCoopers – the auditors of Satyam – "never pointed out any 'deficiencies' during their discussions with me". PricewaterhouseCoopers is known for recruiting from the IIMs and other reputed business schools. Is it the IIMs and other business schools that have produced the incompetent auditors employed by the company? More here by D Parthasarathy: http://kafila.org/2009/02/13/the-caste-of-a-scam-a-thousand-satyams-in-the-making/ From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 14 15:06:38 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 01:36:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Gujarati origins of Valentine's Day References: Message-ID: <265260.52521.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Javed You are hereby accused of 'misconduct' under the List's 'Rules of Conduct' because of your racist remark: """""" It is a well known fact that Gujarati men, specially the Patels, continually mistreat and disrespect their wives (Patelianis) """""" You might like to evidence this claim of 'well known fact' and 'continually mistreat and disrespect'.  You are also accused of posessing a pathetic sense of humour. Kshmendra   ________________________________ From: M Javed To: sarai-list Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 9:13:41 AM Subject: [Reader-list] Gujarati origins of Valentine's Day In spite of what you have been told by everyone, the truth is that Valentine's Day originated hundreds of years ago, in India, and to top it all, in Gujarat !! It is a well known fact that Gujarati men, specially the Patels, continually mistreat and disrespect their wives (Patelianis). One fine day, it happened to be the 14th day of February, one brave Pateliani, having had enough "torture" by her husband, finally chose to rebel by beating him up with a Velan (rolling pin), also called belan. Yes....the same Velan which she used daily, to make chapattis for him....only this time, instead of the dough, it was the husband who was flattened. This was a momentous occasion for all Gujarati women and a revolt soon spread, like wild fire, with thousands of housewives beating up their husbands with the Velan. There was an outburst of moaning "chapatti-ed" husbands all over Anand and Amdavad. The Patel men-folk quickly learnt their lesson and started to behave more respectfully with their Patelianis. Thereafter, on 14th February, every year, the womenfolk of Gujarat would beat up their husbands, to commemorate that eventful day. The wives having the satisfaction of beating up their husbands with the Velan and the men having the supreme joy of submitting to the will of the women they loved. Soon the Gujju men realised that in order to avoid this ordeal they need to present gifts to their wives....they brought flowers and sweetmeats. Hence the tradition began. As Gujarat fell under the influence of Western culture, that day was called 'Velan time' day. The ritual soon spread to Britain and many other Western countries, specifically, the catch words 'Velan time!'. Of course in their foreign tongues, it was first anglicized to 'Velantime' and then to 'Valentine'. And thereafter, 14th of February, came to be known as Valentine's Day! _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 14 15:48:19 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 02:18:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] The Pink Condom Campaign References: <6353c690902130415g55255299kac92bd7ab047708b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <680247.26067.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Rakesh 1. Do enjoy your postings. You are a thinking person. Do not always agree with what you say but that is unimportant. I like the attitude with which you approach topics. 2. I think, campaigns like 'Pink Chaddi' and 'Pink Condom'  are delightfully nonsensical. At least they do not harm anyone. They are elitist of course. Certainly the impoverished, poor or struggling to make ends meet citizenry of India (meaning the overwhelmning majority) cannot afford to spend on such meaningless self-indulgences. 3. On the positive side, such campaigns inject into the economy additional wee bits of transactions. Kshmendra       ________________________________ From: Rakesh Iyer To: Aditya Raj Kaul Cc: sarai list Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 7:23:41 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The Pink Condom Campaign Dear all The entire debate which has been centered around the event of Mangalore pub attack have to be understood critically, before we go ahead with such kind of protests like 'pink chaddi', 'pink condoms' and now the 'pink sarees' campaign of Sri Rama Sene (as per Indian Express reports). First of all, the whole myth of 'Indian culture' has been created. One needs to understand what Indian culture is. It is nothing, and yet, it is everything. It is nothing, because when we look at the cultural aspects of different regions of India (and even Pakistan and Bangladesh as they before 1947, were a part of the Indian 'nation', where 'nation' simply refers to the territory about which history is taught to us in our schools and colleges), they had their diversities and differences among them. There were places and strands which did join them, but only loosely and not rigidly, so that they could take various forms in various places. This is observed in many things. For example, Dusshera is celebrated in various forms across different regions of India. In Gujarat, it is celebrated through 'Garba', in West Bengal it is 'Durga Puja', and in some other regions, it's something else. And yet, it is everything which expressed life of the normal people across different regions of this very Indian 'nation'. The surprising part is that there is nothing in these which make them 'Indian', the reason simply being that one can't define what being an 'Indian' is, or what is 'Indianness'. Of course, many people may come out with various definitions after reading this mail, but I don't think any definition can be quite comprehensive so as to bring out all the diverse elements of the cultures spread across different regions of the country. Therefore, it is absolutely wrong in my view to spread a notion that there is something called 'Indian culture' and moreover, give it a monolithic view. Culture, by definition, stands for the way the people live (the manner of speech and talks, art, literature, anything which expresses the way people live). And cultures are bound to change. The very Indian culture we talk about has undergone a lot of transformation in the last 2000 years and more. Indian culture is not a monolith which will remain static forever, as the RSS-Sri Rama Sene-Sangh parivar or some of the Muslim fundamentalist/Christian fundamentalist organizations want them to. The fact is that cultures change. And therefore, on that account, just because at a certain point of time, some customs were followed, doesn't mean that we have to stick with them in the notion of 'remaining true Indians' or 'to stick to our culture'. This is absolute nonsense. Cultures can change, and this change due to some interactions or circumstances is unavoidable, as one realizes later. The next point arises as to whether, some change should be acceptable or not. This is a highly contentious question. Indian society has been accepted as being a communitarian society, prior to the British rule. All the resources of the villages were be to managed by the community. This has been something pointed out extensively by Ramchandra Guha and Madhav Gadgil in their book 'Ecology and Equity' for stating a kind of development paradigm which is alternative to the current one we keep on hearing about. Now in a communitarian society, individual rights may not be easily accepted. And in different societies across different regions of India, different customs may not be acceptable. What's more, some customs may be acceptable in some societies, but not in others. For example, probably Ashok Gehlot or Yeduyurappa may feel that women should not be allowed to drink, but if one visits tribal communities in different parts of this very country, one would find tribal women also drinking at the tribal festivals. One example is this : http://www.orissa-tourism.com/trifes.htm So now, going by this kind of study, drinking may not be acceptable to some, and yet acceptable to others. Then who decides what is acceptable and what is not? Democracy has certainly in some way provided that answer. The individual should alone decide what to do and what not to do, provided he/she is above 18 yrs of age, in this case of drinking in pubs. The act of Ram Sene was totally despicable, and this was not what they should have done. Although on the aspect of rationality, people may laugh at this, but the Constitution of India does provide the chance to Sene activists, to actually protest Valentine's Day and all such so-called Western civilizational attacks on Indian culture, in a non-violent manner, through dharnas and rallies being taken out in a peaceful manner. Being emotional towards one's customs and traditions is one thing; trying to change the society through violence is quite another. The first is understandable, the second is certainly not. Also comes the question of women. Yes it's a fact that women have been turned into the pack of 'honor' which has to be maintained for all families. It's this which women dislike. And they certainly have a right to do so. For years, they have been treated to the whims and fancies of men only. And now that they have got a chance to attain equality, these acts only take us back to days of women victimization as done earlier. This is certainly something to be heavily criticized. Now I come to the campaigns finally. The kind of campaigns which finally came up, are a totally rubbish. Instead of going through proper debates and making the Ram Sene activists understand why they are wrong, this is a completely new way of confrontation. So now, we have chaddis, condoms, sarees and what not to give. Probably, tomorrow, this way we may be sending bluefilms as well for protest. Is this how the problem can be solved? I had initially thought that the chaddis campaign is good for it will embarass the Hindutva activists to mend their ways, but looking at the results, I think in all probability that such kind of campaigns are only generating confrontation amongst sections of the society. And this will never lead to proper understanding amongst those who feel women can go to pubs, and those who feel they can't. And I am ashamed that I even thought in the first place that the 'chaddi' campaign was right. What we need is a proper debate and a sympathetic understanding of each other. If the Rama Sene really thinks that the women they beat up were their 'sisters', then they should have debated with them the 'ills' of Western civilization. And the women, in order to get their due, should have called for a debate as well to show to the Rama Sene activists how irrational they are in their faith, and what is wrong with their thought. But both sides have failed. I don't mean to say Mangalore was right. But if Mumbai attacks could start a debate on terrorism, shouldn't Mangalore pub attacks start a debate on 'Indian culture' and so called destruction of Indian society by 'Western festivals and civilization'? And do the 'chaddi, saree, condom' campaigns allow that? Or do they further spread the politics of confrontation and making mockery of each other? Regards Rakesh _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sat Feb 14 15:56:28 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 15:56:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Pink Condom Campaign In-Reply-To: <1fd66c110902140118y6f0fe2a0xf835bd01cbe5aff@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690902130415g55255299kac92bd7ab047708b@mail.gmail.com> <1fd66c110902140118y6f0fe2a0xf835bd01cbe5aff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690902140226u75ebd133g3fcf10c915fa17ec@mail.gmail.com> Shivam, How desperately you search for an opportunity to counter me man! ..lol This gets so funny each time. I don't have any response to your alleged claims and stories. For the information of group members, I've no role to play in this 'Pink Condom Campaign'; but would be honest to support such a campaign against self-styled online media activists. Shivam Vij being just one of them. Maybe, Shivam on the contrary, you are jealous. We know how desperately you begged for media attention during anti-reservation campaign of ours and as well opposed tooth and nail our Justice Campaigns for Jessica Lall and Priyadarshini Mattoo. Lately, you have been dead tired campaigning against Kashmiri Pandits who continue to live in exile and support Islamic Terrorists and separatists of Kashmir. I need not open my mouth further on your past PR-Hunt all over again. Now, even this time around you have gone terribly wrong. I don't have time to campaign for or against Valentine's Day. Why should this just another day matter to me buddy? Tehelka is doing it well enough. Why should I disturb their media marketing strategy in any manner ? And, as I told you before personally Shivam. I won't blame you this time. You have already quit (I'm not sure if quit is the word) Tehelka. You are just trying yet again to seek attention..lol Naughty boy don't waste time. I remember someone had recently suggested you to undergo some kind of transplant. Nah Nah! Nahi re..! I'm not going to make it so uncomfortable for you yet again. You are intelligent that ways somehow! I know you are stuck inside four walls and don't want to get out of the Sickular shell for obvious gains. Need not worry! You still have two options available on your door-step: 1) Pink Chaddi 2) Pink Condom Just heard, there even is a Pink Saree by your friend Muthalik. :) Get of your chair and enjoy the day with your Valentine with the above three free gifts. Love On 2/14/09, Shivam V wrote: > > This has the trademark of Aditya Rak Kaul & co. written all over it - > ranging from "sickulars" to intimidation (giving out others' phone > numbers), etc. So what's the point of claiming anonymity and making a > fool of yourself? And why give it away that you're plain jealous that > somebody else has pulled off a bigger online campaign than you ever > did ("media surely won't promote us as they did to *Pink Chaddi > walas"). Or is that just a ploy to make sure news editors publish/air > stories about this one? But then who will give interviews, Aditya Raj > Kaul's ghost? And what makes you think gifting condoms to > self-confessed "Pub-Going, Loose and Forward Women" would constitute > insult and protest - condoms for them are not what pink chaddis are > for Shri Ram Sene. Next time, think better. > > And 'inflated figures of support'? Evidence please. The number of > people on that Facebook group are for all to see - 38,844 as I type. > > It's interesting that you don't support the Mangalore pub attack (I > take your word) but oppose the Pink Chaddi campaign. And why? Because > Hindus and RSS are being portrayed in a bad light. If it is, then it > is by the Shri Ram Sene. Shri Ram Sene is fringe, radical Hindutva not > formally aligned with RSS. The truth is, you are uncomfortable that > somebody speaking in the name of Ram is being portrayed in bad light, > that the pink chaddi campaign is making sure that Ram's Army is > getting a bad name worldwide. If only you were to realise that it is > their own actions that are bringing a bad name to them, and a great > embarrassment to all those who have great respect, admiration and > faith in Ram across South and south-east asia. > > But you can't join liberals and you you can't join the fundoos either. > The liberals are of your class but the fundoos in this case are of > your political persuasion - if only the poor souls had accepted ARK's > leadership and not made this small mistake. But they did this in a > calculated way to grab media attention, something they perhaps learnt > from you! And now when a liberal set knows how to exploit the gimmick > and visual-hungry beast that is the media, that's salt on your wounds. > > How I love you dilemma. May the hydra-headed Hindutva monster keep > giving you such dilemmas and preventing the forward march of Hindu > fundamentalism in the Republic of India. > > Jai hind > shivam > > > > > On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul > wrote: > > > The Pink Condom Campaign > > Link - http://www.thepinkcondomcampaign.blogspot.com/ > > > > *What is Pink Condom campaign?* > > > > This campaign has been started as a response to some self righteous and > > progressive people who started the *Pink > > > Chaddi > > > * campaign. Their chaddi campaign ends on Valentine's Day of 2009, but > this > > is just a beginning for us. > > > > We are more democratic and transparent that the *Pink Chaddi walas*. We > > don't claim inflated figures of support. There is a poll at the right > hand > > corner of this page, which shows how many people support us, and how many > > don't! > > > > *Why condoms?* > > > > Condoms are necessary to save yourself from AIDS and to lead a > progressive > > and secular life. The *Pink Chaddi walas* claim themselves to be > pubgoing, > > loose and forward - a condom will help them maintain being that. > > > > *Who are we?* > > > > We are the ordinary Hindus, who don't bark on television channels to > defend > > our faith, but we definitely get hurt when some people bark against our > > faith. > > > > We know that not everything is right with Hindu society, and things needs > to > > be improved upon. That's the whole essence of Hindu Dharma or Sanatana > > Dharma – to constantly change and evolve. We don't need self-righteous > > sickular (so-called seculars) to reform us. > > > > *Why are we anonymous?* > > > > Unlike *Pink Chaddi walas*, our intention is not to grab news headlines > and > > appear on Indian and international television (what else do you think > > sending *chaddis *will achieve?). We are just trying to convey a message > – > > you reap what you sow. > > > > *Why this opposition to Pink Chaddi campaign?* > > > > Because the campaign tried to unnecessarily implicate an assertive Hindu > and > > RSS (they showed pictures of RSS members in a derogatory way) for > Managolore > > pub attack incident. RSS and Hindus didn't approve of Mangalore incident, > > still they were demonized, which was result of a mentality which is full > of > > hatred towards Hinduism. > > > > *Do we support Sri Ram Sene?* > > > > Not at all for beating up women in Mangalore. We know nothing more about > > them to declare an overall support or opposition. They don't really > matter > > to us. > > > > *Do we support RSS?* > > > > Yes and No. We support RSS for their social work and for fighting > sickulars. > > We support them because we hate Hindu haters like Christian Missionaries, > > Jehadi Muslims and Indian Communists. We don't support them if they would > > want to subjugate ordinary Christians and Muslims. > > > > *How can join Pink Condom campaign?* > > > > First, click on the poll on right hand corner and express your support > (or > > opposition). You can also join us on orkut and facebook and promote the > > word, as media surely won't promote us as they did to *Pink Chaddi > walas.* > > > > Secondly, send pink condoms (if you want to spend money, buy them, or > just > > send them colorful and creative picture of condoms) at following > addresses, > > or call up these people (*Pink Chaddi walas*, their contact numbers and > > addresses were put up on *Pink Chaddi > > > *blog) > > > to know more: > > > > People to call: > > > > Benson (9845167575) > > Areeba (9900569456) > > Samir Gandhi (9246282223) > > Kaushik (9703508756) > > Nithin (9886081269) > > Divya (9845535406) > > Nisha (9811893733) > > Vivek (9845591798) > > Ratna (9899422513) > > Padma (99400 25231) > > Jeny (9840398852) > > Aniruddh (98840 17695) > > > > > > Addresses: > > > > Nisha Susan > > C/o Tehelka > > M76, M-Block Market > > Greater Kailash 2 > > > > Ashwini > > C-Wing, Lake Pleasant > > Phase-2, Lake Homes > > Powai > > (Hand it over to the security guards in Mumbai) > > > > Shalini M > > A1201 > > Beaumonde Apts > > Appasaheb Marathe marg > > Near Chaitanya , opp Tata Motors > > halfway between siddhivinayak/century mills > > Prabhadevi – 400025 > > > > The Shakti Center/ Corporate Accountability Desk, > > No: 42 A, I > > floor,5 Avenue, > > Besant Nagar, > > Chennai - 600090 > > > > *We will remove the above contact details and names after they are > removed > > from the Pink Chaddi blog* > > > > *Why trouble these people?* > > > > We are not trying to trouble them. We are just asking you to send them > *Pink > > Condoms*, just like they have decided to send *Pink Chaddis *to *Sri Ram > > Sene*, unsolicited. We believe that we have equal rights to protest in > the > > same manner as chosen by them. They might be good people, we are not > > contesting that at all, but we just paying them in the same coin. > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > -- > > mail at shivamvij dot com > -- -- Aditya Raj Kaul From lists at shivamvij.com Sat Feb 14 16:32:33 2009 From: lists at shivamvij.com (Shivam V) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 16:32:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] To: Mr Omar Abdullah Message-ID: <1fd66c110902140302l52cfffa4n6fd3ff308f09b337@mail.gmail.com> To: Mr. Omar Abdullah Chief Minister Jammu and Kashmir From: The International People's Tribunal on Human Rights and Justice in Kashmir Conveners: Dr. Angana Chatterji, Associate Professor, Anthropology, California Institute of Integral Studies Advocate Parvez Imroz, Founder, Jammu and Kashmir Coalition of Civil Society Gautam Navlakha, Editorial Consultant, Economic and Political Weekly Zahir-Ud-Din, Vice-President, Jammu and Kashmir Coalition of Civil Society Legal Counsel: Advocate Mihir Desai, Mumbai High Court, Supreme Court of India, Co-founder, Indian People's Tribunal Liaison: Khurram Parvez, Programme Coordinator, Jammu and Kashmir Coalition of Civil Society February 11, 2009 Re.: Memorandum on Human Rights, Peace, and Social Justice Dear Mr. Omar Abdullah: We write you today on behalf of the International People's Tribunal on Human Rights and Justice in Indian-administered Kashmir. [A brief on the Tribunal's premise and objectives may be found at: http://www.kashmirprocess.org/premise.html.] We write, mindful that you have promised attentiveness and accountability to human rights issues in Kashmir, to bring to your attention the need for appropriate action with regard to the following: 1. Disappearances: You have raised issues of enforced disappearances in Kashmir in the past. We ask that you order a full-scale investigation under provisions of the Commissions of Inquiry Act, 1952, and/or other relevant laws, within a stipulated and reasonable timeframe. We ask as well that all laws of Jammu and Kashmir incorporate the premise of the United Nations Declaration on the Protection of All Persons From Enforced Disappearance, the International Convention for the Protection of All Persons from Enforced Disappearance, and the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment. 2. Killing by Police Firings, Fake Encounter Killings, and Extrajudicial Killings: We ask that you use all authority granted you by law to take strong and effective preventive measures to ensure that these are not repeated. As well, we urge that the cases that have been pending in courts, and those that have not been filed, be expeditiously dealt with and the perpetrators be brought to justice. We ask that the Government of Jammu and Kashmir follow the cases pending for sanctions before the Government of India's Home Ministry under Section 7 of Armed Forces Special Powers Act, 1958, (AFSPA). We ask that the state make public the number of cases in which sanctions have been sought from the Government of India, and the number of cases in which the same have been granted. 3. Mass Graves: We note the existence of mass graves in Kashmir, as verified by the Association of Parents of Disappeared Persons and the International People's Tribunal for Human Rights and Justice in Kashmir in 2008. We note that there are connections between the number of persons disappeared and these unmarked, unidentified, nameless, and unknown graves. We also note that various international institutions and bodies, such as the European Parliament, have referred to this issue and made recommendations for action. We ask that your government offer protection to the sites to not permit their desecration or destruction, enable independent and transparent investigations drawing upon varied, credible, and international expertise, and institute an independent and transparent judicial commission of inquiry. 4. Torture: It has been acknowledged by international human rights organizations that the use of torture by military and paramilitary forces is widespread in Kashmir. [See documentations available at http://www.kashmirprocess.org/resources.html.] As well, the Government of India is yet to ratify the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, although it has been a signatory since October 1997. In this context, we ask that the Government of Jammu and Kashmir institute a comprehensive ban on practises of torture as defined by international law and humanitarian ethics. 5. Detention and Torture Centres: We ask that unlawful detention and torture centres, including in army camps, be identified, made public, and banned. Further, we ask that appropriate reparations be determined and undertaken with regard to unlawful and unconstitutional practises undertaken in these camps and centres. We ask that international institutions, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), be permitted to visit the above places to assess the situation independently. 6. Gendered and Sexualized Violences: We note the severity of gendered and sexualized violences that have been perpetrated in Kashmir in the last two decades. Women and children, and others, have been victimized by horrific forms of brutality, including rape, gang and collective rape, perpetrated on women. Other categories of victimization include women whose male partners are missing, labelled 'half-widows'. Women and children, and others, have been subjected to physical and psychological torture and trauma, and social and literal displacements. We note the urgency of undertaking ethical, transparent, and independent assessments of the above in conditions that ensure the safety and security of the survivors/victims, and undertaking requisite reparations and rehabilitation. 7. Prisoners Rights: We ask that prisoners' rights not be violated, and that medical aid be readily made available, and that the right to legal counsel, due process, fair and speedy trials be upheld. 8. Rights of Former Militants: We ask that the civil liberties of former militants and their families be respected. We note that the civic and political rights of former militants, who are now living different and committed lives, continue to be violated by personnel of the military and paramilitary forces. We note that some of them have been subjected to torture after serving sentences and deemed 'rehabilitated' by the justice system. We note that many still have to report to local camps of the security forces on a weekly basis. We note as well that former militants and their families continue to be subjected to maltreatment and denied access to social life, such as to institutions, employment, and pensions. 9. Juvenile Justice: We ask that youth not be taken into custody, held, or tried as adults, and that their rights to legal counsel, due process, and fair and speedy trials be upheld. We ask that a law be enacted that guarantees juvenile justice, that safeguards the rights of juveniles in conflict with law, and neglected and destitute juveniles. We note that young people in general, particularly girls and young women, must be guaranteed an environment free of sexual harassment and violence. We note that young people need to be guaranteed freedom from forms of harassment that undermine their right to education. Impediment to livelihood of adults creates economic insecurity that impacts youth. Family livelihood insecurity compels youth to earn income rather than foreground education and development. Proximity to systemic violence produces severe emotional trauma that manifests as depression, suicidal behaviours, self-medication through drugs, as well as retreat and isolation as coping strategies. There are inadequate provisions to address these issues and respond to these needs. We urge recognition of this reality and the allocation of resources to address these issues. 10. Access to Justice: We ask that all persons seeking to access institutions of law and justice be treated with respect and non-violence by law enforcement agencies. We note that, in countless instances, complaints are disregarded by the police, false first information reports (FIRs) filed, and people's request to file FIRS are met with disrespect, even force. 11. Landmines: We note that the placement of landmines along the border and other sensitive areas in Jammu and Kashmir continues to endanger lives, including those of children. While the Government of India is not a signatory to the Convention on the Prohibition of the Use, Stockpiling, Production and Transfer of Anti-Personnel Mines and on their Destruction, and has continued to justify landmine use in Jammu and Kashmir, we ask that the Government of Jammu and Kashmir institute a comprehensive ban on the use of landmines. We ask that an audit be conducted to ascertain the impact of landmines on local communities, to determine the extent of casualties, devastation, and displacement, and undertake rehabilitation of those affected and de-mining. 12. Transparency: We urge that the Government of Jammu and Kashmir ensure that international organizations and institutions, that have access to other places, are allowed to visit Jammu and Kashmir. We note that the ability of international institutions to work with local civil society institutions in Jammu and Kashmir is crucial to interrupting isolation and producing accountability. We ask that thousands of families who have been denied passports, including human rights defenders and journalists, be provided the same. We ask that, prior to contractual agreements and implementation, all development projects be assessed for their human rights implications. 13. Laws and States of Exception: We note your commitment to the revocation and withdrawal of security related legislation that has been in contravention of international humanitarian laws and norms, such as the Armed Forces Special Powers Act, 1958, (AFSPA), enacted in Jammu and Kashmir in 1990, the Disturbed Areas Act, 1976, enacted in Jammu and Kashmir in 1992, and the Jammu and Kashmir Public Safety Act of 1978. We reiterate the urgent need for the revocation of the Armed Forces Special Powers Act, 1958, the Disturbed Areas Act, 1976, the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act, 1967, and the Jammu and Kashmir Public Safety Act of 1978. We also note that continued criminal proceedings using the Prevention of Terrorism Act, 2002, and the Terrorist and Disruptive Activities (Prevention) Act, 1985, 1987, must be stopped. While the safety and security of citizens must remain of paramount concern, we ask that you remain vigilant to the problematic parameters and consequences of certain national security laws used to proscribe political dissent and deny freedom of expression, freedom of speech, and freedom of assembly, and deny the democratic right to peaceful mobilization and dissent. We note that certain national security laws, in the name of retributive justice, have been/may be used to perpetrate state violence, subvert due process of law, undermine civil liberties, and freedom of the press, eroding rule of law, permitting torture and sexualized violence on those in state custody, criminalizing innocent persons, and, in effect, undermining the safety and security of citizens. 14. Commissions of Inquiry: We ask that the reports and/or findings of various Commissions of Inquiry that have been instituted to inquire into instances of gross violations of human rights, law, and social justice be made public and that these commissions be ordered to complete their charge. Further, from available information, we register our concern that between 2000-2007 only three statutory inquiries have been commissioned and that other inquiries instituted have been magisterial and administrative probes. We ask that, based on ethical assessments of gross violations of human rights, law, and social justice, relevant statutory inquiries be ordered, as appropriate, to investigate these crimes. We ask that various agencies, including military and paramilitary institutions, be required to cooperate with instituted commissions in order that they may carry out their investigations. We ask that the recommendations of the commissions be enacted. 15. Minorities: We note that peace and reconciliation requires commitment to minority rights and issues, and the ethical and transparent resolution of injustices. We ask that an audit be conducted to ascertain the status of minorities in Kashmir, and related to the displacement, dislocation, and rehabilitation of minorities in Jammu and Kashmir, to propose mechanisms for reparation and reconciliation. 16. Truth and Reconciliation Commission: We note your public commitment to instituting a 'Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC)'. We are hopeful that you will appreciate that such a process must facilitate the implementation of justice as a precondition to reconciliation. We further note that the viability and success of a TRC is only possible in a context where demilitarization has taken place, enabling a social context in which the will and freedom of the people of Kashmir can be exercised. 17. In conclusion, we write you today mindful of how the conditions for peace and prosperity are linked to the possibility and necessity of justice in Kashmir. We understand the work of the International People's Tribunal for Human Rights and Justice in Kashmir as enabling the work of justice. Toward that, we hope and expect that the Tribunal will continue to undertake its work in conditions that are not impeded. Yours Sincerely, Angana Chatterji, Parvez Imroz, Gautam Navlakha, Zahir-Ud-Din, Mihir Desai, Khurram Parvez Contact: Khurram Parvez E-mail: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org T: +91-194-2482820 M: +91-9419013553 From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 14 17:23:39 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 03:53:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India Message-ID: <691424.31645.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Anupam It is a good idea to first register who has written what . Otherwise one addresses comments to the wrong person. Just as you have done. It was not I who wrote 'indian muslims should ask al-qaeda to stop terror attacks'. So your comment that you found 'my line problematic' was a misdirected comment. I personally find nothing objectionable in the 'line' that was actually posted by Aman-Shanti: """ Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world." It talks about 'appeal' and that too not by Indian Muslims alone but 'everyone else' too. The Aman-Shanti posting goes on to explain why there is a focussed attention by "Indian Muslims against Terrorism". They obviously recognise that acts of Terror in the name of Islam lead to Indian Muslims getting demonised. The Aman-Shanti post  does not ask for or talk about Indian Muslims offering an apology for the acts of Terrorists so your 'apologise' comment is yet another misplaced comment.   The Aman-Shanti posting does not talk about the "Samjautha Blasts" or about solving it 'ourselves'. You seem to have fantasised that stuff was written in the Aman-Shanti posting when it wasnt. That says a lot about you and your intentions.  The Aman-Shanti posting is an excellent one and it was greatly satisfying that Indian Muslims have begun to articulate such positions on behalf of the community. The "Indian Muslims against Terrorism" initiative is a laudable one and needs to be supported by Indians. Supported by every Indian who claims to love India.   In my opinion, only those who want to see the continued harming of India and of India's Muslims will be dismissive of the Aman-Shanti posting and  be critical of the "Indian Muslims against Terrorism" initiative. Anupam you now declare yourself to be an Indian but are you? If you are an Indian, why would you refer to Indian  security agencies as  "YOUR  security agencies" ? Kshmendra From: anupam chakravartty To: sarai list Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 9:14:30 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India dear kshmendra, your very line that indian muslims should ask al-qaeda to stop terror attacks is problemmatic. hindu groups were responsible for the samjhauta express attacks as stated by police officials. are hindus ready to apologise and appeal to bajrang dal to stop the distribution of trishuls that has been happening in Orissa through Gujarat for killing muslims, christians and running various rackets, urge that they should stop doing this? the aman-shanti mail clearly stated that they dont want pakistani agencies to probe into samjhauta blasts saying we (indians which includes me and you) are quite capable of solving it ourselves. where as we (indians including me and you) dont mind FBI and Mossad coming here and solving 26/11, then also pointing severe discrepancies in our intelligence and policing. again, apologies for the delay and being unclear about my statements. regards anupam On 2/12/09, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > >  Dear Anupam > > Would you please clarify who exactly is the "YOU" and the "YOUR" in your > words : > > "Yes, but you prefer mossad and FBI coming over as your security agencies > are > not adequately equipped to investigate any case." > > Thanks > > Kshmendra > > > >  ------------------------------ > *From:* anupam chakravartty > *To:* sarai list > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 11, 2009 10:06:23 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting > and threatening India > > dear aman, shanti, peace and other such things, > > i would have supported this appeal had it not used these words: > > "Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its > allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world." > > why do indian muslims always have to give a certificate that they are > clean? > why? what is the difference between al-qaeda and you? both of you judging > the plight of the identities ignoring the fact that conflicts are directed > against weaker sections. > > and then you go on to say: > > The claim that "Indian Muslims are persecuted by Hindus, thus > world's Muslims need to save them". No, Thank you. We don't need the > outside saviors. > > Yes, but you prefer mossad and FBI coming over as your security agencies > are > not adequately equipped to investigate any case. Dont you? > > with best wishes, > > anupam > > > > On 2/11/09, Aman Shanti wrote: > > > > Dear friends > > Please see this news item, and also our appeal below. Kindly support > > our appeal by sending the message across to many friends so that a > > better sense prevails in this world: > > > > > > > http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/PoliticsNation/Al_Qaeda_threatens_to_attack_India_for_the_first_time/articleshow/4109243.cms > > ------ > > > > Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its > > allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world. > > Islam does not approve the killing of innocent people. Peace-loving > > Muslims must join hands to convince these extremist elements to desist > > from their path of terror. Here is an appeal (which is also available > > on facebook) that needs your support: > > > > Indian Muslims Against Terrorism > > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=124494910211 > > > > Why only Indian Muslims – everyone should be against terrorism. Yes, > > true - but this group has a certain mandate that related mostly to > > Indian Muslims (although all others are welcome to join and > > participate in this forum). We wish to focus on a few specific points > > that are important to address the issue of regional terrorism. There > > are two basic claims (made by some), which we want to address here: > > > > 1. The claim that "Indian Muslims are persecuted by Hindus, thus > > world's Muslims need to save them". No, Thank you. We don't need the > > outside saviors. > > > > 2. The claim that "now there are home-bred Muslim terrorists in India > > that need to be nabbed." Ok, if this is true, then please involve > > sincere and peace-loving Indian Muslims in the search for such > > extremist elements in India's Muslim localities, instead of randomly > > arresting and killing them in encounters. > > > > The above two points are detailed here: > > > > (1) There is an assumption or discourse coming out of some Muslim > > countries (such as Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia and others) > > that "Muslims in India are being victimized and tortured by the Hindus > > (for example in Gujarat, Kashmir, Ayodhya etc.), and since they are in > > great danger and helpless in the hands of Hindu extremists, it is the > > duty of Muslims all over the world to go and save them, and revenge > > their killings and persecution, by terrorizing the Hindus and damaging > > the economic might of India." It has been reported that such discourse > > is part of the training given to the terrorists who allegedly carry > > out attacks in India. While we don't know for sure if the "terrorists" > > are given such propaganda, but we assume that many Muslims outside > > India may certainly have such an impression about India, as one can > > see in some of the media in the Muslim world. > > > > We agree that Muslims in India have been subjected to a lot of > > violence, torture, prejudice and injustice at various times, probably > > in the same way as other minorities like dalits (low-caste Hindus), > > tribals, and women etc. have been treated. But we wish to convey to > > the "Islamic world" that WE DO NOT NEED THE HELP OF SAVIOURS FROM > > OUTSIDE India to fight our struggles. (By struggle, we don't mean > > violent revenge for the injustice, but a simple struggle for survival, > > and recourse to the law, which luckily is not hopeless in India). > > Muslims have been living in India for last one millennium, sometimes > > peacefully and sometimes in conflict, but most of the times trying to > > carve out ways to co-exist with fellow Indians, and make India a > > progressive country. The contribution of Muslims to the progress of > > India need not be repeated here. The bottom-line is: They cannot go > > anywhere else – India is their home, and they have to struggle here > > like everyone else. So, please don't meddle into our affairs. > > > > This plea is especially for those powerful institutions/organizations > > in countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan who deliberately support > > terrorism and violence against India and Hindus. You don't realize > > that every time there is a terrorist attack in India, although a lot > > of non-Muslims get killed or affected, but the ultimate loss is that > > of Indian Muslims. They are the ones who are seen more and more as > > culprits and a subject of hate and prejudice. It is our children (with > > Muslim names) who are taunted in Indian schools as "Pakistanis", and > > it is we who cannot rent a house in a mainstream colony because of our > > Muslim tag, all because of you. So, our Islamic brothers, YOU ARE NOT > > HELPING US come out of our suffering at all. You are actually pushing > > us further into a furnace by carrying out the terrorist attacks on > > "Hindus". We request and plead you to have mercy on this beautiful > > country and the world, and stop your senseless jihad. If you are told > > that you will to go to heaven (and get houris) when you die for the > > cause of Islam, you are highly mistaken and misled. You will surely > > burn in hell for harming innocent people. This world is not only for > > Muslims – it is for everyone; whatever religion or culture they may > > follow. So, live and let live. > > > > (2) The above message was meant for the "terrorists" infiltrating from > > outside India and their supporters/sympathizers. And now for the > > "home-grown" breed of terrorists. After the horrific 9/11 attacks, it > > was reported by many that among the Muslim terrorists operating all > > over the world, there are actually no Indian Muslims involved. > > (Although Indian media and intelligence department had been claiming > > since many years that Muslim madrasas are the breeding grounds of > > terrorism, but not a single Indian madrasa has so far been found to be > > involved in such activity). Every one was happy and proud about the > > news of India Muslims' non-involvement in terrorism. But suddenly, > > after the 2002 Gujarat pogrom, it was reported that Muslims residing > > in India are becoming terrorists too, and many of them highly > > educated-ones (engineers, doctors, IT professionals, etc.). They use > > new technology of Internet, cell-phones and deadly explosive material > > supplied by their counterparts from across the border. > > > > Subsequently, hundreds of young boys from Muslim localities have been > > arrested and tortured by the Indian police, some even killed in > > encounters. But most of them so far have only been accused and almost > > none ultimately convicted or punished for an act of terrorism, due to > > a lack of substantial evidence against them. Most Muslims and some > > human rights activists argue that those arrested or killed Muslim boys > > have nothing to do with terrorist activities and have been framed > > wrongly. After seeing the adverse role of the police in recent > > incidents such as an encounter at Batla House (Delhi) in September > > 2008 where 2 such accused (and a police inspector) were killed, the > > Muslim community has lost all faith in the police and intelligence > > agencies, fearing that due to their prejudice they could arrest and > > kill any Muslim at will in their war against terror. Their > > investigations are not transparent, their proofs are not convincing, > > and their encounters with terrorists look stage-managed. > > > > However, such a reaction from Muslims is also considered by some as a > > "denial mode", and it is suggested (especially by the mainstream > > media) that Muslims need to come out of this mode and accept the > > reality that home-bred terrorists do exist in the community, > > especially since those who carried out the recent blasts (in 2008) did > > claim that they are "home-bred" terrorists. If the internal Muslims > > are truly involved in such activities, and if we are serious about > > nabbing and punishing them, it would be good for the peace-loving > > Muslims themselves to come forward and make a strategy to help > > eradicate this menace, rather than to leave it only to the > > state-forces. Here is some advices worth considering: > > > > It is accepted by the media and the police that all Muslims are not > > terrorists, but some Muslims do resort to extremism and violence, and > > that the peace-loving intelligentsia among the Muslim community should > > take responsibility to root out the bad elements. This is often > > repeated on every news channel and newspaper after every attack: > > Secular and elite Muslims need to sift out the extremist elements in > > their community. Well, no right thinking Muslim can deny this > > responsibility and there are many who are eagerly ready to play that > > role. But terrorism or extremist elements of the society cannot be > > eradicated by only their efforts, if the govt. and the police > > themselves have been unable to do so. They need the same logistical > > support and resources to bring out any change in the community, which > > the authorities use. In fact, a more practical idea today would be an > > active coordination between the intelligence agencies, the police, the > > judiciary and the responsible people in the Muslim community. But for > > that to happen, the first and foremost requirement is for the > > officials to TRUST THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY. It is a widely known fact > > that the number and ratio of Muslims in Indian security forces, > > police, intelligence, ministries and other important institutions is > > very abysmal – at least not proportionate to their population. > > Moreover, in the war against the terror, the authorities never talk to > > the responsible people from the community leave aside involving them > > actively. > > > > A specific recent case that can serve as an example: > > > > Take the case of the recent police-terrorist encounter at Jamia Nagar, > > Delhi. The Delhi Police (and its Special Cell) not only did not inform > > any of the local citizens of the area before or during the operation > > (while they gave prior information to the media), but also made no > > effort to communicate to the frightened local residents afterwards > > (even during their further arrests of youngsters from the locality), > > while the theories of the encounter being fake were spreading in the > > locality. Their encounter of 19th September 2008 was like a very > > specialized surgical operation done on the body without giving it > > anesthesia or stitching it back, or allowing it to heal. This simply > > shows that they either look at the entire community with prejudice and > > suspicion (of harbouring the terror within), or they are not genuinely > > interested in uprooting the nuisance of terror, and only want to > > continue showing to the world that Muslim terrorists exist. They > > further infuriated many Muslims the next day by showcasing the three > > arrested suspects to the media by covering their faces/heads in the > > stereotypical pink Arab scarves, which is a clichéd symbol of orthodox > > Muslims or Palestinian extremists. > > > > If the authorities start trusting the community and seriously involve > > them in uprooting the internal terrorism, it may show better results > > than secret raids and encounters. Some residents of Batla House > > gathered outside the encounter site the next day said "even if there > > were terrorists holed up in the flat, with weapons, there was a way to > > peacefully flush them out. After all they were not holding any > > hostages. The police knew their location in advance. It could have > > taken some neighbours into confidence, emptied the entire > > neighbourhood, blocked all exit paths from the flat, and then waited > > (even if for days) until the boys got fed up or famished, and > > surrendered. There were lots of possibilities, if there was a will." > > What is required today is a confidence building between the police and > > the people, and some kind citizen's initiatives or neighbourhood-watch > > schemes, (which already exist in some of the posh areas of Indian > > towns). > > > > The smaller towns (such as Azamgarh) or ghettoized localities (such as > > Batla House) in the cities, where such initiatives are required more, > > are unfortunately left to rot by our civic authorities. They could be > > the breeding grounds of a lot of anti-social elements, but the > > authorities are equally responsible for their sorry state. Thus, a > > long-term solution to the mushrooming of internal terror is possible > > only with a multi-pronged approach, the first requirement of which is > > to eradicate the corruption and communal bias in the police > > department, and make them people-friendly. They need to involve senior > > and serious citizens of a locality to nab the likely culprits of > > terror in their area. But this effort should not mean vigilance and > > security measures so strict that they affect the privacy and trust > > between people in a locality. > > ==== > > > > Please join our facebook group to participate in this campaign: > > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=124494910211 > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 14 17:59:53 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 04:29:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear References: <222708.90849.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <5af37bb0902110542x5ec41d29i6318231e9b8d1a55@mail.gmail.com> <190806.74995.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <5af37bb0902121653t4438e4b9td515bee4e2a03592@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <868305.6481.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Yasir 1. If the Terror Acts are in the name of Islam and Surah and Ayah are quoted from the Quran to justify the acts then it is "Islamic Terrorism". I have referred only to the Quran and not any Hadeeth or Rivayaat. For such purposes I am a Parvaizi. It is best to judge the quality of the water at the source-spring rather than in the streamlets that the water thereafter flows into and might have picked up muck in it's journey. 2. You continue to be in 'denial' about the rape of Kashmir and Kashmiris by Pakistan and Pakistanis as having been initiated from 1947 onwards. Kshmendra ________________________________ From: yasir ~يا سر To: sarai list Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 4:53:40 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear I seriously doubt it is ''islamic''. it is simply political and a political fringe, related to other events iin the region, primarily the 80's are unthinkable in afghanistan pakistan and kashmir without the US and Soviet games in afghanistan. it is not possible to separate them. does that make any solution unfeasible and defeated from the beginning once again. best On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 1:59 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > As far as 'sandwiched' or 'bun kabaabed' Afghanistan, Pakistan and India > are concerned, the only thing stringing them together is Islamic Terrorism. > > Kshmendra > > >  ------------------------------ > *From:* yasir ~يا سر > *To:* sarai list > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 11, 2009 5:42:26 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear > > thats a half callous statement if there is no mention of the nature of > the indian army's presence in kashmir, like the pk army's actions such > as aerial bombings in fata. and of course afghanistan pakistan and > india are strung together in a sandwich, a south asian a bun kebab. > > > > On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: > > What Pakistan and Pakistanis and their supporters in Kashmir did to > Kashmir, is now being done in Swat, Pakistan by it's own Pakistanis. > > > > Kshmendra > > > > > > "Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear" > > By Sher Baz Khan > > Tuesday, 03 Feb, 2009 > > > > (MINGORA: The road to Swat used to be a byword for breathtaking beauty. > Although it remains the most picturesque in the country, it now conjures up > fear and lurking danger.) > > The journey upwards from Mardan these days is forbidding. The entire > route is a picture of utter desolation. Fear of the unknown has overtaken a > place fabled for its fertile fields and majestic mountains. > > Even a flying visit is enough to fill one with a sense of foreboding that > religious extremists would overrun the valley before long. > > Most people, especially those living in urban areas, seem to have lost > the will to live. > > Things started taking an ugly turn in July 2007 after the then NWFP chief > minister Shamsul Mulk called in paramilitary forces to take on militants > fired by Maulana Fazlullah's inflammatory rhetoric. > > But the decision seems to have rebounded on the government, for now at > least. The Maulana's followers hold sway over no less than 80 per cent of > the Swat valley. > > The Army is into the third phase of an operation that has seen the > state's writ shrinking by the day. Of late the Taliban have made inroads > into even settled areas, such as, Mardan, Takhtbai, Shergarh, and almost the > entire Malakand Agency. > > Taliban are spreading their message in the same way as they did, and > still do, in Swat. The medium of the message is fear. In fact, fear is the > message. > > The moment I entered the region, I was struck by unmistakable signs of a > place steadily turning its back on the outside world. Institution after > institution is falling to the Taliban. > > Non-combatants have a stark choice: seek refuge in other places or accept > the diktat of Maulana Fazlullah. > > I managed to strike conversations with some Swatis, albeit after much > persuasion. > > Abdullah Khan, a draper, narrated the ordeal of his brother, Rauf Khan, > especially his treatment by a Rawalpindi-based psychiatrist. > > 'Rauf saw the beheading of a man in a butcher shop by militants. Since > that day he either laughs loudly or sheds tears in silence,' Abdullah said. > > A stroll through Mingora's main marketplace brought us face to face with > misery. A number of people poured their hearts out to us. > > 'The thunder of bombs, rockets, grenades and whatnot linger in our ears.' > > 'Go to the psychiatrists of Peshawar and Rawalpindi and ask them how many > children, men and women from Swat they are treating these days. I bet the > number will baffle you,' said Ajmal Khan, a college student. > > The locals alleged that the military operation had killed more > non-combatants than militants. > > The economic fallout of the conflict is ominous. Most of the 1,000 hotels > have gone out of business. The rent-a-car business is also dying out. > > Shops dealing in CDs and operators of cable television have folded up > after Maulana Fazlullah's warnings. > > Barber shops have put up notices that they would not shave off beards as > the Taliban have told them not to do so. > > A glitzy plaza caught my eye with its elegant shops, but sadly there were > no shoppers. > > 'Women are not allowed to enter the premises unless they are accompanied > by men,' read a banner fluttering over the entrance to the mall. > > A number of tailors said they had been told not to let women enter their > shops. > > 'The upper and middle classes are leaving the valley and settling down > elsewhere,' said Aleem Jan, a tailor making women's suits. He is among many > who are planning to move to either Mardan or Peshawar. > > Advertisement hoardings carrying pictures of women are disallowed. > > Faces of women in ads are blackened or deformed. > > A building housing the court is empty of lawyers and litigants as Taliban > have decreed that the existing judicial order is un-Islamic. They have set > up 73 sharia courts to administer 'speedy justice'. > > These courts summon people on phone, threatening violators with death. > > And speedy justice it is indeed. They settle cases within a couple of > days. Hence they are getting popular. > > 'A summon from the court of Fazlullah is like a death warrant. No one > dare disobey it,' said Jamil Ahmed, a lawyer. > > Although he favoured the existing judicial system, he was all praise for > the sharia courts as they decide cases in no time. > > Jamil cited the example of a woman whose plea for dissolution was decided > the other day by a local court. The matter was lingering for the past 22 > years. > > She had applied for dissolution of marriage at the age of 21 and now she > is 43. > > The president of the Swat Bar Association, Aftab Alam, is against a > parallel judiciary. But he too said judges should try to dispose of cases in > 'reasonable time' to undercut the Taliban courts. > > Only two of the 14 policewomen who worked in the district court take the > trouble to report for duty these days. But they wear veils and keep a low > profile, mostly hiding themselves behind bushes. > > Almost all the legislators belonging to the ruling Awami National Party > have fled from Swat. The exception is Afzal Khan Lala. All of them are on > the Taliban's hit list. > > > > > > > http://www.dawn.net/wps/wcm/connect/Dawn%20Content%20Library/dawn/news/pakistan/nwfp/tourist-heaven-turns-into-valley-of-fear-ha > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From oishiksircar at gmail.com Sat Feb 14 18:40:24 2009 From: oishiksircar at gmail.com (OISHIK SIRCAR) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 18:40:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Canadian Labour International Film Festival 2009: Final Call Message-ID: <62cba67a0902140510s207dd168hd378fd6e07c04c7e@mail.gmail.com> FINAL CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS FOR 2009 Canadian Labour International Film Festival (CLiFF) = Take One = *Films due 31 July, 2009* The Selection Committee of the Canadian Labour International Film Festival (CLiFF) invites you to submit your film or video for possible screening in the Canadian Labour International Film Festival (CLiFF), taking place November 22 - 27, 2009 in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. *About the Film Festival* The inaugural Canadian Labour International Film Festival (CLiFF) will be held November 22 - 27, 2009 at the Bloor Cinema, located at 506 Bloor Street West, Toronto ON, M5S 1Y3 (www.bloorcinema.com). The festival will draw thousands of trade unionists, community members, youth, activists, students, educators, artists, and allies from across Toronto, Ontario, Canada and, we hope, the world. The festival will feature film and ! video made by, for, and about the world of work and those who do it, in Canada and Internationally. They will be about unionised workers and also those not represented by unions. We encourage projects regarding any and every aspect of work, as well as issues affecting work or workers. We hope that CLiFF becomes a place for workers to come together to discuss what affects them and to share their challenges, their celebrations and their intense creativity. We hope this can be done in person and using the valuable tools which come to us through the internet. We are looking for films on a wide spectrum of issues affecting the whole spectrum of society. We seek films about privatization, youth, First Nations people, people of colour, immigrants, refugees, detainees, health and safety, resistance, art, poetry, women, lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgendered people, taxi drivers, truck drivers, rickshaw drivers � anyone who does anything considered work. We also encourage the widest possible variety of films:! from do cumentaries to drama to poetry/poetic treatments to comedy and animation � in short, anything you can possibly think of. If it isn’t dull and boring, we’ll like it even better. The festival will include panel discussions with filmmakers, film subjects, experts, activists, family members, and those who work to change the system to help everyone within it. Preview copies will not be returned. Submissions that we keep are included as part of our Labour Film Library which we will use for educational work. We can most easily deal with DVD/VHS format. If you have other formats which you would like to submit please contact us. If you have a film in process that you would like to submit but are unsure about getting it to us in time, please contact us. *About the CLiFF Selection Committee* The CLiFF Selection Committee believes in justice at work and society in general. We actively resist racism, elitism, classism,! sexism, colonialism, homophobia, ableism, and ageism. The Selection Committee hopes to foster healthy communities built on fairness at work and at all levels of society. Visit our website: www.labourfilms.ca or write to info at labourfilms.ca *Deadline* Submissions must be received no later than 31 July, 2009, at 5pm. Early submissions are encouraged and appreciated. TWO COPIES of each submission are required. If you would like your submission returned please let us know. Submissions that we keep are included as part of our Labour Film Library which we will use for ongoing educational work. The entry form may be submitted by mail or fax prior to media and other materials being shipped. *Selection* A selection committee will view all eligible submissions. All decisions by the selection committee are final. *Eligibility* 1��� The Festival is open to all film and video makers. 2� �� The Festival is open to all lengths but there is a stron! g prefer ence for shorter works. 3��� Films and videos must be in English or have English sub-titles. French subtitles are also accepted (and encouraged) 4��� Works in progress are ineligible (except by recommendation of the Selection Committee). *Special Calls* In addition to our open-call, where we look at anything and everything, the Festival is especially looking for: Flash features, micro documentaries, archival oddities and cell phone video submissions under 5 minutes in length. Accepted formats include DVD, VHS, Quicktime, .AVI, Flash. If you wish to be considered by the CLiFF Selection Committee, mark the appropriate place on the submission form. Open to all. * Technical Guidelines* 1��� All submissions must be on NTSC standard (PAL may be accommodated with prior notice). 2��� All submissions must be on DVD or VHS. DVD’s must be region-1 or “region-free���. 3��� Preview VHS and DVD’s will not be returned although applicants are invited to pick up all preview materials in person after the festival. 4��� Do not send master tapes unless asked to do so. 5��� Multiple entries are accepted but each entry must be accompanied by a separate form and submission tape or disc. 6��� All tapes and discs must contain only the movie being submitted, cued to the front of the tape or disc. In other words, do not submit tapes or discs containing more than one entry or with material other than the movie being submitted. 7��� We strongly suggest that all submitted materials begin with at least two-seconds of black ideally followed by an 8-to-2 countdown and another two-seconds of black at the end of the movie. This is not mandatory, but it helps us do our jobs faster. 8��� Preview tapes and discs must be labeled with title, running time and contact information. Poorly labeled material makes it ! difficult for us to work with. 9��� The entrant is res! ponsible for all shipping fees. 10��� Entries from outside of Canada must be clearly labeled: “Festival submission, for cultural purposes only. No commercial value”. The Festival will refuse any submission with customs duties owing. *Notification* Entrants will be notified of acceptance, via email, by 31 August, 2009. *Publicity Materials* If you submit a movie please send, via email: B&W and/or color stills from the film. The sooner you send us photos the better the chances they will be used in publicity materials. All other documents (in Microsoft Word, RTF or plain ASCII text format) or photos (in JPEG or TIFF format) may be submitted via email (if overall file size is less than 5 MB). For larger file sizes submit via CD mailed to the address below. *Shipping* To avoid damage to any materials shipped, please use bubble wrap mailers or boxes when mailing submissions. Please! label all media with the title and date of the work. Note: Shipping costs are the sole responsibility of the owner/distributor. CLiFF is only responsible for the return shipping of the exhibited film/video to its owner/distributor. Our staff will take every precaution in handling all films and videos. However, CLiFF cannot accept or assume responsibility for damage to, or loss of, materials submitted. CLiFF will consider paying for the cost of shipping materials for international or youth entries. Please contact us via email to make your request. *Final Delivery* If your film or video is selected, you may be asked to deliver a final screening copy. You can indicate that your DVD or VHS preview copy be used for screening purposes. If a final screening copy is not received the festival will screen your DVD or VHS preview copy. Additional accepted formats are miniDV, 35mm film, 16mm film. *Submission Fe! e* There are no submission fees. Submi! ssion Ad dress Submissions should be addressed to: CLiFF Selection Committee Canadian Labour International Film Festival 50 Cornwall Street, Unit #314 Toronto, Ontario Canada� M5A 4K5 Download the entire Call for Submissions: http://labourfilms.ca/Call_2009_CLiFF_finalcall2.pdf Download the SUBMISSION FORM ONLY: http://labourfilms.ca/Call_2009_CLiFF_FORM.pdf CLiFF Board of Directors 13 February, 2009 -- OISHIK SIRCAR oishiksircar at gmail.com oishik.sircar at utoronto.ca From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sat Feb 14 19:04:20 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 19:04:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmiri roots of art unravelled In-Reply-To: <6353c690902140533n6fe419fpef21a29f2e565640@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690902140533n6fe419fpef21a29f2e565640@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690902140534qcf92664xa4dc87f1f0f0cc73@mail.gmail.com> * Kashmiri roots of art unravelled The Hindu - http://www.hindu.com/2009/02/13/stories/2009021350510200.htm ** ASI-Benoy Behl come together to put up an exhibition at Qutub Minar * A two-month-long exhibition on "The Monasteries of Rinchen Zangpo" by noted art historian and filmmaker Benoy K. Behl has been mounted at the Qutub Minar in the Capital. "It is a new initiative between the Delhi Circle of Archaeological Survey of India and me to put up the exhibition at the landmark place. It becomes an educational visit for people who visit the monument every day. They get acquainted with a d ifferent aspect of Indian culture. India has a most remarkable history of art and culture, very little of the truth is known," says Mr. Behl. Presenting for the first time an overview of the art historian's extensive documentation of the original chain of monasteries of Ladakh, Spiti, Kinnaur and Tibet, the collection contains 76 pictures taken by Mr. Behl during the past 15 years. To capture these fascinating pictures, Mr. Behl travelled on horseback and climbed uphill for long distances where no road existed. He is said to be the only person to have taken photographs of the art inside some of the monasteries. The exhibition is significant as it presents the deep Kashmiri roots of the legacy of art of Ladakh, Spiti, Kinnaur and Tibet. "Scholar Rinchen Zangpo, who survived the journey to Kashmir and came back after 17 years, became famous as Lohtsawa, 'The Great Translator'. He supervised the construction of many monasteries and temples that became exquisite and brilliant jewels of faith. The legendary 108 temples made at that time became the backbone of revival of Buddhism. The art of Kashmir in these monasteries continues the pan-Indian classical artistic traditions, especially from the Gupta period onwards," says Mr. Behl, whose exhibitions have received an overwhelming response in 24 countries. Madhur Tankha From yasir.media at gmail.com Sat Feb 14 19:12:01 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?windows-1256?B?eWFzaXIgfu3HINPR?=) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 14:42:01 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear In-Reply-To: <868305.6481.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <222708.90849.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <5af37bb0902110542x5ec41d29i6318231e9b8d1a55@mail.gmail.com> <190806.74995.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <5af37bb0902121653t4438e4b9td515bee4e2a03592@mail.gmail.com> <868305.6481.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0902140542o33ece9a8l31b4ff66c857c37a@mail.gmail.com> see below.best. On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Yasir > > 1. If the Terror Acts are in the name of Islam and Surah and Ayah are quoted > from the Quran to justify the acts then it is "Islamic Terrorism". > > I have referred only to the Quran and not any Hadeeth or Rivayaat. For such > purposes I am a Parvaizi. It is best to judge the quality of the water at > the source-spring rather than in the streamlets that the water thereafter > flows into and might have picked up muck in it's journey. > i think you are mis-identifying the source spring. The region has a turbuklent history from before islam - geography and culture being significant in their continuity over time. My pov flow from a cultural understanding from inside pakistan. you are welcome to have your own. > 2. You continue to be in 'denial' about the rape of Kashmir and Kashmiris by > Pakistan and Pakistanis as having been initiated from 1947 onwards. far from it. While i am sympathetic to whats happened to kashmiri pandits or armenians in western turkey, why should i be in denial to the 500,000 soldiers who have had to deal with lack of plebescite in kashmir. the wound has been allowed to fester. how can only pakistan be to blame for that. As for rapes, you know better how the national Indian army has behaved in kashmir as well as manipur etc, not to mention the pk army in east pakistan and now fata. i think it is you, my friend who has a single angled view, even though a it is better complexified than others. best wishes yasir > Kshmendra > > ________________________________ > From: yasir ~يا سر > To: sarai list > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 4:53:40 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear > > I seriously doubt it is ''islamic''. it is simply political and a political > fringe, related to other events iin the region, primarily the 80's are > unthinkable in afghanistan pakistan and kashmir without the US and Soviet > games in afghanistan. it is not possible to separate them. does that make > any solution unfeasible and defeated from the beginning once again. > > best > > > > On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 1:59 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: > > >> >> As far as 'sandwiched' or 'bun kabaabed' Afghanistan, Pakistan and India >> are concerned, the only thing stringing them together is Islamic >> Terrorism. >> >> Kshmendra >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* yasir ~يا سر >> *To:* sarai list >> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 11, 2009 5:42:26 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear >> >> thats a half callous statement if there is no mention of the nature of >> the indian army's presence in kashmir, like the pk army's actions such >> as aerial bombings in fata. and of course afghanistan pakistan and >> india are strung together in a sandwich, a south asian a bun kebab. >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Kshmendra Kaul >> wrote: >> > What Pakistan and Pakistanis and their supporters in Kashmir did to >> Kashmir, is now being done in Swat, Pakistan by it's own Pakistanis. >> > >> > Kshmendra >> > >> > >> > "Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear" >> > By Sher Baz Khan >> > Tuesday, 03 Feb, 2009 >> > >> > (MINGORA: The road to Swat used to be a byword for breathtaking beauty. >> Although it remains the most picturesque in the country, it now conjures >> up >> fear and lurking danger.) >> > The journey upwards from Mardan these days is forbidding. The entire >> route is a picture of utter desolation. Fear of the unknown has overtaken >> a >> place fabled for its fertile fields and majestic mountains. >> > Even a flying visit is enough to fill one with a sense of foreboding >> > that >> religious extremists would overrun the valley before long. >> > Most people, especially those living in urban areas, seem to have lost >> the will to live. >> > Things started taking an ugly turn in July 2007 after the then NWFP >> > chief >> minister Shamsul Mulk called in paramilitary forces to take on militants >> fired by Maulana Fazlullah's inflammatory rhetoric. >> > But the decision seems to have rebounded on the government, for now at >> least. The Maulana's followers hold sway over no less than 80 per cent of >> the Swat valley. >> > The Army is into the third phase of an operation that has seen the >> state's writ shrinking by the day. Of late the Taliban have made inroads >> into even settled areas, such as, Mardan, Takhtbai, Shergarh, and almost >> the >> entire Malakand Agency. >> > Taliban are spreading their message in the same way as they did, and >> still do, in Swat. The medium of the message is fear. In fact, fear is the >> message. >> > The moment I entered the region, I was struck by unmistakable signs of a >> place steadily turning its back on the outside world. Institution after >> institution is falling to the Taliban. >> > Non-combatants have a stark choice: seek refuge in other places or >> > accept >> the diktat of Maulana Fazlullah. >> > I managed to strike conversations with some Swatis, albeit after much >> persuasion. >> > Abdullah Khan, a draper, narrated the ordeal of his brother, Rauf Khan, >> especially his treatment by a Rawalpindi-based psychiatrist. >> > 'Rauf saw the beheading of a man in a butcher shop by militants. Since >> that day he either laughs loudly or sheds tears in silence,' Abdullah >> said. >> > A stroll through Mingora's main marketplace brought us face to face with >> misery. A number of people poured their hearts out to us. >> > 'The thunder of bombs, rockets, grenades and whatnot linger in our >> > ears.' >> > 'Go to the psychiatrists of Peshawar and Rawalpindi and ask them how >> > many >> children, men and women from Swat they are treating these days. I bet the >> number will baffle you,' said Ajmal Khan, a college student. >> > The locals alleged that the military operation had killed more >> non-combatants than militants. >> > The economic fallout of the conflict is ominous. Most of the 1,000 >> > hotels >> have gone out of business. The rent-a-car business is also dying out. >> > Shops dealing in CDs and operators of cable television have folded up >> after Maulana Fazlullah's warnings. >> > Barber shops have put up notices that they would not shave off beards as >> the Taliban have told them not to do so. >> > A glitzy plaza caught my eye with its elegant shops, but sadly there >> > were >> no shoppers. >> > 'Women are not allowed to enter the premises unless they are accompanied >> by men,' read a banner fluttering over the entrance to the mall. >> > A number of tailors said they had been told not to let women enter their >> shops. >> > 'The upper and middle classes are leaving the valley and settling down >> elsewhere,' said Aleem Jan, a tailor making women's suits. He is among >> many >> who are planning to move to either Mardan or Peshawar. >> > Advertisement hoardings carrying pictures of women are disallowed. >> > Faces of women in ads are blackened or deformed. >> > A building housing the court is empty of lawyers and litigants as >> > Taliban >> have decreed that the existing judicial order is un-Islamic. They have set >> up 73 sharia courts to administer 'speedy justice'. >> > These courts summon people on phone, threatening violators with death. >> > And speedy justice it is indeed. They settle cases within a couple of >> days. Hence they are getting popular. >> > 'A summon from the court of Fazlullah is like a death warrant. No one >> dare disobey it,' said Jamil Ahmed, a lawyer. >> > Although he favoured the existing judicial system, he was all praise for >> the sharia courts as they decide cases in no time. >> > Jamil cited the example of a woman whose plea for dissolution was >> > decided >> the other day by a local court. The matter was lingering for the past 22 >> years. >> > She had applied for dissolution of marriage at the age of 21 and now she >> is 43. >> > The president of the Swat Bar Association, Aftab Alam, is against a >> parallel judiciary. But he too said judges should try to dispose of cases >> in >> 'reasonable time' to undercut the Taliban courts. >> > Only two of the 14 policewomen who worked in the district court take the >> trouble to report for duty these days. But they wear veils and keep a low >> profile, mostly hiding themselves behind bushes. >> > Almost all the legislators belonging to the ruling Awami National Party >> have fled from Swat. The exception is Afzal Khan Lala. All of them are on >> the Taliban's hit list. >> > >> > >> > >> >> http://www.dawn.net/wps/wcm/connect/Dawn%20Content%20Library/dawn/news/pakistan/nwfp/tourist-heaven-turns-into-valley-of-fear-ha >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From siddharth.narrain at gmail.com Sat Feb 14 19:49:25 2009 From: siddharth.narrain at gmail.com (siddharth narrain) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 19:49:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Film-making Fellowship at George Washington University Message-ID: <1773a06d0902140619h5161878aqbf917ba0725138d3@mail.gmail.com> For those interested, Documentary Film-making fellowship at the George Washington University. Link below: http://www.gwu.edu/doccenter/2009%20Fellowship%20Application.pdf From c.anupam at gmail.com Sat Feb 14 21:23:56 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 21:23:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India In-Reply-To: <691424.31645.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <691424.31645.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <341380d00902140753y3c4713f9jed0899a27e1123d7@mail.gmail.com> dear kshmendra and aman, In your recent comment written: "It was not I who wrote 'indian muslims should ask al-qaeda to stop terror attacks'. So your comment that you found 'my line problematic' was a misdirected comment. I personally find nothing objectionable in the 'line' that was actually posted by Aman-Shanti: """ Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world." so logically, my misdirected comment actually hit the right spot. and as you are now saying that there is nothing objectionable in aman shanti's comment, so you are also a party to it. to repeat what i said, earlier, the proposition that "indian muslims are against terrorism" is a good idea. even, your political stand on Jamia encounters is appreciated. but then what is this message you are sending in the header: "Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India."? i personally have no problems with such initiatives but at least aman should have used the right words.* aman's (your's too kshmendra) understanding of the situation after reading the header looks like indian muslims have been inviting alqaeda all this while and now if they ask to stop it, they would do so.* i am trying to point towards a fallacy which aman has made. you can change it and i hope you can change your hearts also while dealing with something so elusive and destructive as terrorism. and if you guys think, that you can ask anyone to adopt such an initiative through this mailing list, then you all are wrong. i would not visit your blog or your facebook as a sign of protest against these specific words: "Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world". it is completely upto you to change it and come up with something else. to put it very simply: how's my friend abdul (being an indian muslim) connected with al-qaeda? in what capacity should abdul, particularly (as your header suggests), who paints and dreams of faiz and nazrul, should go to al-qaeda and ask them to stop their acts? how is he a stakeholder? is every muslim a stake holder in the crimes committed by a group of mujaheedins? why should abdul be pinpointed, when all of you self-righteous peace loving people (including me) are responsible for what has been happening in the country? -anupam From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sat Feb 14 21:31:18 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 21:31:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Hilarious pub-editorials and pop culture Message-ID: <6353c690902140801n76469d1ao2328f845a210cc81@mail.gmail.com> *Media Watch Hilarious pub-editorials and pop culture Link - http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=277&page=19 * Renuka Chowdhury has been reported to have condemned "the attack". What has she been doing all these five years to the TV channels that have been guilty of the utmost vulgarity? This journalist who has been around in the media world for some sixty-five years must confess that he has read nothing more hilarious than some of the editorials in the English language press over the pub incident in Mangalore. It merely shows how ignorant the media is about the traumatic changes that have been taking place in Indian society in just about the last one decade and how people are striving to come to terms with them. The pub attacks has nothing to do with either the RSS or VHP or BJP or even Hinduism, no matter what our silly secularists may say. It has nothing to do with 'Hindu fundamentalism' or 'moral vigilantism' or 'assault on civil right's or 'civil liberties', as newspapers like The Hindu (January 28), The Times of India (January 28) or The Indian Express (January 28) or the People's Union for Civil Liberties have said. Even the so-called Sri Ram Sena is totally irrelevant. To understand what has happened one has to live, as P Sainath, probably the most knowledgeable journalist of his times did, in rural India to know how the minds of villagers work, what offends them and what enthuses them. The trouble with our media stalwarts is that their minds are urban-centred. Widely travelled, they are knowledgeable about pubs in London, nightclubs in European cities and availability of various and questionable forms of entertainment in Europe and the United States. Mangalore is not Paris. It is one of the most sophisticated towns in India but is surrounded by villages which profess different culture. Thanks to the setting-up of class universities in the districts of South Kanara and Udupi the urban centres are hosting students from over fifty countries whose presence and demands are becoming cause for concern. There is palpable tension in the surrounding villages. The villagers feel threatened. Incidentally, I am speaking with authority since I live in a place surrounded by villages which I visit regularly to address children in primary classes, students in secondary and higher elementary schools and in high schools. Parents invite me to their homes and they speak freely to me. Most of them have TV sets and a large section among them express their anger at what they have to witness, day in and day out. These are not politically motivated people or people fed with fundamentalist doctrines. One suspects that they have more respect for women then our civil rights and other organisations claim to have. The women especially hate to see urban women smoking because they feel that their own daughters might get affected by this new culture that is thrust on them. They have nothing to do with the Sri Ram Sena. And for long they have been seething with anger because they have no way to protest. Our city-based editors and their dedicated secular flock have no time to live amongst the villagers and understand their concerns. And that maddens them even more. To say, as did CNN-IBN that what happened in Mangalore is a mater of shame to Karnataka is pure nonsense. There is nothing that either Mangalore or Karnataka has to be ashamed about. What India has to be ashamed about are our TV channels which broadcast programmes of questionable relevance. CNN-IBN will not dare to say that Maharashtra's shame is the Maharashtra Navnirman Sena. If it did so the MNS goons will probably break up the CNN-IBN studios. The kind of filthy stuff which we have to witness in our TV channelsis a mater of national shame. Of course, the Congress will try to get mileage from the Mangalore pub issue and a sycophantic press will support it. But the Congress Party obviously does not know the public mind. The BJP is doing extremely well in Karnataka and cannot easily be shaken. As The Indian Express in a moment of revelation put it, "Such incidents in an election year are fodder for political parties and some have grabbed it gladly." Renuka Chowdhury has been reported to have condemned "the attack". What has she been doing all these five years to the TV channels that have been guilty of the utmost vulgarity? One has even less respect for former Chief Minister of Karnataka, president of Janata Dal (Secular) (whatever that means) who wants the current Home Minister of Karnataka, VS Acharya to "own moral responsibility of the chaotic situation prevailing in the coastal districts and resign". What, pray, was Kumaraswamy was doing all those years when he was the Chief Minister of Karnataka? There is no chaos in the coastal districts, as he claims. Their problem has arisen from circumstances beyond their control. Perhaps the BJP government should amend existing rules to ensure that women are barred from entering places where liquor is served, whatever the civil rights people may have to say on the subject. Rural India has yet to get accustomed to the changing cultural scene. It takes time. It takes patience. We have come a long way from the thirties of the 20th century when the Congress was opposed to drinking and had prohibition on its agenda. What, one wonders, would Mahatma Gandhi (if people like Renuka Chowdhury know who is) have said watching girls passing drinks to customers in a pub, late at night. Perhaps Sonia Gandhi, Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh and all those posing as defending human rights would like to say something on the subject. The arrogance of the Indian media when it itself needs to answer many questions concerning media morality and ethics is best ignored. There are many questions one would like to ask the media, similar to the ones that The Times of India (January 28) has raised. The tragedy is that our media has no time to study the hows, whys and wherefores of an event before making judgment. News gathering is one-sided. It is easy to get some society women to condemn the violence in the Mangalore pub. "Intolerance is spreading deep and fast in our country", laments The India Express. It speaks of a "warped sense of Indian tradition and ethos". The Express must send a team to Mangalore to talk to people from various walks of life, especially people from the surrounding villages. The Express might then learn that its own "warped" sense of righteousness needs looking into. All societies changes. But acceptance of change comes easy when it is gradual. When change occurs overnight, as it were, then it gives way to violence. In judging violence one must be wary of overstepping one's limits. By its reckless criticism, the media has lost its right to sit on judgment. It has to be made answerable to the people. For far too long has the public been silent about the multiple shortcomings of the media. It needs to be tamed. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Feb 15 05:21:52 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 23:51:52 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] the liberty of the networked In-Reply-To: <77aa94900902130604u7df825d0keb476da732afe8a1@mail.gmail.com> References: <77aa94900902130604u7df825d0keb476da732afe8a1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40902141551i752522b2vf7c2e2954af3e963@mail.gmail.com> Dear Angshukanta Thank you for posting links to The liberty of the Networked essays by Curzon. I think these essays sharply pin the debate around technology and its complex relationship to freedom. However, I would like to think that in the Indian context the debate around the idea of a database is yet to take a serious root. Libero-phobic and libero-genic arguments apart, in the realm of public, the discourse is still fluctuating between imagination of a national id card as some sort of a cure to the logistical impossibility of registering a billion Indians. Directly in contrast to China, for instance, where a national identity card was possible maybe because of the linking of housing database to communist party primary membership data. I wonder how far can we take the help of arguments articulated by Curzon to understand an ongoing mutation and replication of database discourse in India, I do not know whether these arguments will fit the groove completely. Regards Taha From yasir.media at gmail.com Sun Feb 15 14:18:46 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?windows-1256?B?eWFzaXIgfu3HINPR?=) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 09:48:46 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] holbrooke's daal & pashtunistan In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0902150047j2f405181k55b8b0579b065c72@mail.gmail.com> References: <5af37bb0902150047j2f405181k55b8b0579b065c72@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0902150048y3a0015abj4219be9cacb421de@mail.gmail.com> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/15/afghanistan-pakistan-obama so it is AfPakIn From javedmasoo at gmail.com Sun Feb 15 18:04:47 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (M Javed) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 18:04:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Gujarati origins of Valentine's Day In-Reply-To: <265260.52521.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <265260.52521.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Kshmendra So, you have caught me red-handed. I apologize for any unintended hurt my forwarded message may have caused to the Gujarati men or women. My only evidence for the "well-known fact" is that this message came to me forwarded from at least 3 sources (so its already doing the rounds) - I wish I had included the original list of email addresses attached from previous forwards, so that you could accuse many more people of this misconduct. Let me know what my punishment would be for a pathetic sense of humour. I am sure this humour is still less traumatic than what those dating couples went through who were forced to tie rakhi and so on on valentine day. Javed On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Javed > > You are hereby accused of 'misconduct' under the List's 'Rules of Conduct' > because of your racist remark: > > """""" It is a well known fact that Gujarati men, specially the Patels, > continually mistreat and disrespect their wives (Patelianis) """""" > > You might like to evidence this claim of 'well known fact' and 'continually > mistreat and disrespect'. > > You are also accused of posessing a pathetic sense of humour. > > Kshmendra > > > ________________________________ > From: M Javed > To: sarai-list > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 9:13:41 AM > Subject: [Reader-list] Gujarati origins of Valentine's Day > > In spite of what you have been told by everyone, > the truth is that Valentine's Day originated hundreds of years > ago, in India, and to top it all, in Gujarat !! > > It is a well known fact that Gujarati men, specially the Patels, > continually mistreat and disrespect their wives (Patelianis). One fine > day, it happened to be the 14th day of February, one brave Pateliani, > having had enough "torture" by her husband, finally chose to rebel > by beating him up with a Velan (rolling pin), also called belan. > > Yes....the same Velan which she used daily, to make chapattis for > him....only this time, instead of the dough, it was the husband who was > flattened. > > This was a momentous occasion for all Gujarati women and a revolt soon > spread, like wild fire, with thousands of housewives beating up their > husbands with the Velan. > > There was an outburst of moaning "chapatti-ed" husbands all over > Anand and Amdavad. The Patel men-folk quickly learnt their lesson and > started to > behave more respectfully with their Patelianis. > > Thereafter, on 14th February, every year, the womenfolk of Gujarat would > beat up their husbands, to commemorate that eventful day. The wives having > the satisfaction of beating up their husbands with the Velan and the men > having the supreme joy of submitting to the will of the women they loved. > Soon the Gujju men realised that in order to avoid this ordeal they need > to present gifts to their wives....they brought flowers and sweetmeats. > Hence the tradition began. > > As Gujarat fell under the influence of Western culture, that day was > called 'Velan time' day. > > The ritual soon spread to Britain and many other Western countries, > specifically, the catch words 'Velan time!'. Of course in their > foreign tongues, it was first anglicized to 'Velantime' and then to > 'Valentine'. And thereafter, 14th of February, came to be known as > Valentine's Day! > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com Sun Feb 15 19:31:37 2009 From: vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com (Vedavati Jogi) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 19:31:37 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] The Pink Condom Campaign Message-ID: <580970.95499.qm@web94713.mail.in2.yahoo.com> jehadis were there   brave soldiers were also there ofcourse to kill them.   only difference is,   there were no sickulars and human rights walas to support jehadis.   vedavati --- On Fri, 13/2/09, Pawan Durani wrote: From: Pawan Durani Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The Pink Condom Campaign To: "Santhosh Kumar" Cc: "sarai list" Date: Friday, 13 February, 2009, 9:23 PM Yes Santosh , Those were the 'Satyug' days when even the 'sickulars' as well the 'Jehadis' did not exist. Warm regards Pawan On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Santhosh Kumar < santhosh.kanipayur at gmail.com> wrote: > It is lucky that this Sriram Sene was not there during the time of Sri > Krishna and Gopikas! > And when Hanuman met Sita alone under Asoka tree in Lanka and the day was > not Valentine's day > > Santhosh > > > > On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Pawan Durani >wrote: > > > Just swa this blog , you may have a look too > > > > http://www.thepinkcondomcampaign.blogspot.com/ > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab. Check out the all-new Messenger 9.0! Go to http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/ From joechrismyles at gmail.com Mon Feb 16 02:17:16 2009 From: joechrismyles at gmail.com (joe chris) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 02:17:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Invitation for a seminar on Women and Democracy Message-ID: <6165c5a80902151247p3cd5c5fcj453fdf97dddf5eba@mail.gmail.com> Dear Friends, *OpenSpace Hyderabad* and friends are organizing a daylong meet on the 17th of February 2009. The seminar attempts to direct attention towards issues that concern women and require political action. The presentations and discussion will aim to draft a Women's manifesto. *Venue:* DR. Reddy's Foundation, House No: 8-2-293/82/L/A, MLA Colony, Road No. 12, Banjara Hills, Hyderabad. *Time:* 9.00 a.m-5.00 p.m *Date:* 17th Feb, Tuesday, 2009 Tentative Schedule: Women and Democracy *Thematic area* *Discussant* * * *Inaugural session * Introduction and setting the tone of the meeting Introducing OpenSpace Moderator * * V. Mrudula Joe Christopher Rekha Pappu *10:15 – 10:30 am* *Women & Education* Girlchild rights Girls Education Sumithra, Ankuram Sarat Babu Vasireddy 10:30 – 11:00 am *Women – Crime, Laws* Domestic Violence act implementation Women in Conflict Crime Stats, trends Sunitha and Anveshi team C. Vanaja Ravi Teja 11:00 – 11: 45 am Tea break 15 min *Women , Identity and Rights* Women identity and citizenship Women in cinema Discrimination and Exclusion Women and Media Safai Karmachari Andolan Diia Rajan Uma Bhrugubanda Jhansi, Dalit Sthree Sakti ----- K. Anuradha, AmanVedika 12:00 – 1:00 pm Lunch break 45 min *Women and Livelihoods*: Women and Displacement due to large infrastructure projects Women in unorganised Sector Women and new economy jobs Women and Environments Concerns of women artisans Akshara Network Usha Seethalakshmi Bhargava Gadiyaram Latha mani, Namrata Kalyani 1:45 – 3:00 pm *Women and Health * Women and food Security Women and HIV/Aids Women and maternal Health Women and nutrition Female sexworkers and rights Padma Kalpana Simhan Mrudula Sunitha, Akkshaya ------------ 3:00 – 3:30 pm *Women and Political Participation* Review of manifestos of political parties Women in Panchayat Raj Reservation in Electoral Bodies Dr. Revathy * Kalamani* _____ *Drafting the manifesto* Working group (all are invited) 3:45 – 5:00 pm You may contact the convenor of the seminar Mrudula. V @ 9490192119 or me for other details. Regards, Joe Christopher, Open Space Fellow(CCDS), Hyderabad. 98856-23408. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Feb 16 11:22:09 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 11:22:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Sufi with the Kalashnikov Message-ID: <6353c690902152152xabb4a03o36314274371c9da8@mail.gmail.com> * The Sufi with the Kalashnikov * Praveen Swami Link - http://www.hindu.com/2009/02/16/stories/2009021653740800.htm r * Abdul Jabbar's bizarre journey from a roadside restaurant to a Lashkar terror camp casts new light on the jihad in India. * More likely than not, Abdul Jabbar would have encountered the poetry of 13th century mystic poet Ibn al-Arabi in the Sufi order which shaped his life. "I profess the religion of love," al-Arabi wrote, "and wherever its caravan turns along the way, that is the way the faith I keep." Jabbar's own journey led him from a small north Kerala town, through a roadside restaurant, secret circle of Sufis, and an Islamist terror cell to a Lashkar-e-Taiba terror unit in the mountains of Jammu and Kashmir — a Kalashnikov in his hands. For chroniclers of India's jihadist movement, his bizarre story has particular significance. Most members of the Indian Mujahideen's networks were drawn from groups like the Students Islamic Movement of India or neoconservative religious orders. But Jabbar and the group of Kerala jihadists he was a part of emerged from the Noorisha tariqah — a prominent Sufi order of the Chishti-Qadri tradition, famous for its emphasis on openness and love. Born in May 1973 into a working class family from northern Kerala's Puruthur town, Jabbar dropped out of school in the fifth grade. At just 13 years of age, he began work as a parantha cook at a roadside hotel. His father, Kunzhi Bavanu, still runs a small tea stall in Puruthur; one brother, Abdul Samad, is a fitter, while the other, Abdul Hakeem, an autorickshaw driver. Back in the late 1980s, the Malappuram region was in the midst of a small-scale communal war which pitted the cadre of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh and the charismatic Islamist leader Abdul Nasser Maudhany's Islamic Sevak Sangh against each other. Jabbar was among hundreds of angry young men who found meaning in Maudhany's inflammatory polemic, and went on to become a vice-president of his party's Malappuram unit. In 1998, Maudhany was arrested on charges of providing logistical support to the serial bombings in Coimbatore — of which he was only recently acquitted. Pursued by the police, many of his supporters fled Kerala. During his time underground, Jabbar came into close contact with Maudhany's followers linked to the Noorisha order: Kannur resident Abdul Sattar and his long-standing associate Tadiyantavide Nasir. Like Jabbar, Sattar and Nasir had cut their political teeth in Malappuram's street wars. Police investigators believe that the men, who are alleged to have been involved in an abortive plot to assassinate the former Kerala Chief Minister, E.K. Nayanar, executed the July 2008 serial bombings in Bangalore, and supplied components for the improvised explosive devices used by top terror operative Riyaz Bhatkal for the Indian Mujahideen's murderous attacks in Andhra Pradesh and Gujarat. Nasir, using the alias Haji Omar, had established himself as an *ustad* — or instructor — of students at the Noorisha order's headquarters in Hyderabad. The Jamia Arifiya Nooriya seminary sprawls across a 40-acre campus, housing a free school and the al-Arif Unani General Hospital. Thousands of people attend the order's 40-day *Chilla*, a spiritual course intended to help adherents overcome physical and material desire. Made up in the main of Kerala residents, the Noorisha order is among the inheritors of a unique tradition of Islam. Folk tradition in Kerala has it that king Cheraman Perumal Bhaskara Ravi Varma, on witnessing a miraculous split-moon in the skies, travelled to Saudi Arabia where he was converted to Islam by Prophet Mohammad himself. In some tellings of this legend, Varma took on the name Tajuddin and married the sister of the king of Jeddah. After Varma's death, the story goes, a spice trader named Malik bin-Dinar returned to Kondangaloor, bearing a letter from Verma which led to a local temple being converted into a mosque dedicated to the king's memory. The Cheraman Jama Masjid, reputed to be over 1,370 years old, still stands — in the Hindu tradition, facing east. Nasir had little time for the Noorisha order's spiritual legacy — or its syncretic concerns. He argued that the rise of the Hindu right, and worldwide atrocities on Muslims, made armed jihad a religious imperative. Most clerics at the Jamia Arifiya Nooriya found Nasir's position unacceptable — but he had the support of Abdul Kader, an influential Noorisha *ustad* known among the order as Abdu Ustad. 1960-born Kader, police sources say, first started visiting the Noorisha seminary in 1996, for treatment of a psychiatric disorder. Later, he gave his daughter in marriage to Sattar. Sattar, in turn, helped draw Jabbar into the jihadist circle among the Noorisha. Married twice — first to Zeenath Ibrahim, by whom he has a 12-year-old son, and then Ramola Mohammad, who gave him two more sons, two-year-old Salahuddin and six-year-old Mukhtar — Jabbar was beset by financial and legal problems. Zeenath had filed a criminal complaint against Jabbar for dowry harassment, and moved the court for maintenance. Sattar arranged for Jabbar to marry again, this time his sister-in-law, Nasia Moinuddin, to help him rebuild his life in Hyderabad. Jabbar was to have two daughters with Moinuddin: Aasiya, who is now three and Zainabi, who was born last year. Sattar also helped Jabbar find work — and arranged for him to take on Kader as his spiritual mentor. Behind the façade of this new life, Jabbar continued to pursue his old jihadist path. He was among five Noorisha-linked men from Kerala who joined a ten-man Lahskar unit in the mountains above Kupwara, along the Line of Control, on the morning of September 16, 2008. In the next few weeks, the men were put through gruelling combat-fitness drills, and taught to use assault weapons and explosives. Long before their training ended, though, the Jammu and Kashmir Police, backed by Indian Army troops, arrived to put their skills to the test. Four of the men Jabbar travelled with were killed. He hid out in the forests all night, before beginning his journey home — where the police were waiting. "Those who distort the meaning of jihad," the supreme leader of the Noorisha order, Sayyid Muhammad Arifuddin Jeelani, said in a recent interview, "will certainly go to hell." For the most part, public commentary on Islamist terrorism in India has cast Sufi Islam as inherently opposed to jihadist violence. In part because the aesthetic of ascetic spiritual traditions — Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Jewish and even Christian — has become fashionable among metropolitan liberals, Sufi practices have been cast as inherently hostile to the Islamist project. But like other religious systems, Sufi mysticism can — witness the recent fighting in Iraq, Central Asia and Pakistan — provide legitimacy to violence. In the dying decades of the Mughal empire, the influential Sufi mystic, Shah Waliullah, called on the warlord, Ahmad Shah Abdali, to wage war against the Jats and the Marathas, arguing that it was "predestined that unbelievers should be reduced to a state of humiliation." Sayyid Ahmad — whose failed 1831 jihad against Maharaja Ranjit Singh's empire inspired the founding of the Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadis from which the Lashkar draws its ideological legitimacy — was also a mystic. Hassan al-Banna, the founder of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood — the seed from which much of the modern jihadist movement was born — was profoundly influenced by the work of 12th century mystic Abu Hamid Muhammad al-Ghazali. Although al-Banna rejected al-Ghazali's theological convictions, scholars have noted that elements of the practices of the Sufi brotherhoods continue to suffuse organisations such as the al-Qaeda — practices like the swearing of a bayat, or oath, to its sheikh, Osama bin-Laden Pakistan has seen Sufi orders adopt jihadist tactics to counter their neoconservative theological rivals. In 1997, Sufi leader Allama Pir Mohammad Saeed Ahmad Mujadidi set up the Sunni Jihad Council to fight in Jammu and Kashmir. Speaking to the Gujranwala-based magazine *Dawat-e-Tanzim ul-Islam*in March 1999, SJC military commander Saeed Raza Bukhari said that the decision was taken because "certain people have used jihad to propagate their false creeds in Kashmir." In India, members of the mystic Deendar Anjuman order executed a series of 12 bombings in 2000. Deendar founder Siddiq Husain — who outraged conservatives by claiming to be the incarnation of the Lingayat-caste saint Channabasaveswara — sought to rebuild his legitimacy among Hyderabad's Muslim elites by setting up a military training centre in 1939. Husain marketed his jihadist organisation, the Tehreek Jamiat-i-Hizbullah, as an instrument with which pre-independence Hyderabad would be able to resist both the Hindu chauvinist Arya Samaj, as well as a growing Communist insurgency. Police investigators found that Zia-ul-Hassan, Siddiq Husain's Pakistan-based son, used the old Tehreek Jamiat-i-Hizbullah to execute the 2000 bombings, which were marketed as retaliation against Christian and Hindu atrocities. Jabbar's story demonstrates that the roots of the jihadist movement lie neither in scripture nor particular right-wing renderings of the faith. Like other jihadists, Jabbar turned to the jihad because of the lived experience of communal conflict — not a theoretical understanding of the imperatives of Islam. Even the most plural and tolerant faith-systems, his story makes clear, are unlikely to survive in the crucible of communal hatred. Secular political formations and the Indian state will have to find a language with which to meet the challenge. From phadkeshilpa at gmail.com Mon Feb 16 17:31:17 2009 From: phadkeshilpa at gmail.com (Shilpa Phadke) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 17:31:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] CMCS presents Talk by Melissa Butcher: 19th Feb 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: *The Centre for Media and Cultural Studies* *Tata Institute of Social Sciences* is very pleased to invite you to a talk: Navigating 'New' Delhi The formation of 'Pedestrian Crossings' and 'No-Go Zones' in a Globalising City by Melissa Butcher *On 19th February 2009* *At 4.30 P.M.* *Room No. V, Main Campus, Deonar, TISS, Mumbai*** *Abstract:* As a result of urban regeneration in Delhi in line with dominant models of economic development, flows in the city have shifted resulting in the traversing of new spaces, the re-appropriation of space in new ways and engagement in new interactions by its inhabitants. This paper presents findings from recent qualitative studies aimed at exploring how the city is being re-imagined, the possibilities and conflicts that are resulting from spatial transformation and new mobility, focusing on shifting power relations and cosmopolitan competencies such as imagination and empathy that are deployed to manage change. *About the Speaker:* Dr Melissa Butcher is a Lecturer in the Department of Geography, the Open University, UK. The focus of her current research is managing mobility, cultural change and conflict in diverse urban spaces. Before joining the OU, Melissa taught in universities in Ireland and Australia, and has also worked as a journalist, a development education specialist, and an intercultural consultant and trainer in the private, government and community sectors. She has lived and worked in Asia, primarily India and Australia, and is currently writing a book on transnational mobility and cultural change, as well as co-editing the book 'Dissent and Cultural Resistance in Asia's Cities' (with Selvaraj Velayutham, Routledge 2009). Her previous publications include 'Ingenious: Emerging Youth Cultures in Urban Australia' (with Mandy Thomas, Pluto Press, 2003), and 'Transnational Television, Cultural Identity and Change: When STAR Came to India' (Sage, 2003). Melissa presents and writes regularly on issues relating to globalisation, migration, youth culture and global human resources management. From tasveerghar at gmail.com Mon Feb 16 18:36:15 2009 From: tasveerghar at gmail.com (Tasveer Ghar) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 18:36:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Of Romantic Couples and Gods on the Streets In-Reply-To: <484c1050902130853n4ac1b44eie15f049897ad810b@mail.gmail.com> References: <484c1050902130853n4ac1b44eie15f049897ad810b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <484c1050902160506m265d2704k60a7b478b89fedd3@mail.gmail.com> Dear all (this message was posted to the reader-list on 13th Feb to reach you by the auspicious occasion of 14 Feb., but the love police probably had their way into the cyberspace to stop the Sarai subscribers from reading it, and made it to disappear. Hence it is being sent again. Hope you still enjoy these). In an age when Indians need court approval to kiss in public and celebrating romance is considered a "foreign culture", Tasveer Ghar presents some interesting new visuals essays: 1. "Monuments, Landscapes and Romance in Indian Popular Imagery": A visual essay by Kajri Jain, about the depiction of romantic couples in Indian calendar and poster art. Kajri Jain is based in Canada, and is the author of "Gods in the Bazaar: the Economies of Indian Calendar Art" (Duke University Press, 2007): See her essay and images at this link: http://tasveerghar.net/2009/kajri/ 2. "Tiled Gods Appear on Mumbai's Streets": A visual essay by Amit Madheshiya and Shirley Abraham, about the gods and deities that prevent Indian men from their seemingly favourite pastime of peeing on the streets. Amit and Shirley are independent researchers based in Mumbai. See their image-essay at http://tasveerghar.net/2008/shirley-amit/ 3. The Tasveer Ghar Picture of the Month: Since the flavour the month is romance, here is a sample of more romantic couples from past: http://tasveerghar.net/picomonth.html Enjoy several other interesting visual essays on Tasveer Ghar: http://tasveerghar.net/gallery.html Tasveer Ghar http://www.tasveerghar.net From peaceshantiaman at gmail.com Mon Feb 16 21:56:32 2009 From: peaceshantiaman at gmail.com (Aman Shanti) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:56:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] We must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India Message-ID: Dear Anupam I and the people who have drafted this appeal would continue to stick to the title and its language - we don't think we have made any fallacy (as you say). It looks a fallacy to you precisely because you are so rigid in not visiting blog and reading the whole thing and to see what others have to say, and how many people (about a 100 so far) have joined the group. You are the only person who is nitpicking the words. So, thank you if you don't wish to follow what we are trying to say. Maybe the only fallacy we have made is to announce it on the Sarai-list. We apologize you for filling up your inbox. Our appeal never intends to mean that "Indian Muslims have invited Al-Qaeda to India" and hence they need to drive it out. What you simply cannot grasp is the fact that Indian Muslims protesting against Al-Qaeda is not the same thing as saffronites protesting against Al-Qaeda (and demanding to "nuke Pakistan"). These are two different things - and there are a lot of subtleties involved in them, which you refuse to understand. You would understand if you were a Muslim who is actually affected by the recent trends in India. One doesn't have to be a stakeholder in something in order to protest against it. If some American citizens protested against the US attack on Iraq, does it mean that they were stakeholders in the war? If your Abdul is not interested in appealing to Al-Qaeda (since he is not a stakeholder), that's fine. But is he happy about whatever is going on in the world as a human and not as Abdul? Aman On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 5:23 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: dear kshmendra and aman, In your recent comment written: "It was not I who wrote 'indian muslims should ask al-qaeda to stop terror attacks'. So your comment that you found 'my line problematic' was a misdirected comment. I personally find nothing objectionable in the 'line' that was actually posted by Aman-Shanti: """ Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world." so logically, my misdirected comment actually hit the right spot. and as you are now saying that there is nothing objectionable in aman shanti's comment, so you are also a party to it. to repeat what i said, earlier, the proposition that "indian muslims are against terrorism" is a good idea. even, your political stand on Jamia encounters is appreciated. but then what is this message you are sending in the header: "Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India."? i personally have no problems with such initiatives but at least aman should have used the right words.* aman's (your's too kshmendra) understanding of the situation after reading the header looks like indian muslims have been inviting alqaeda all this while and now if they ask to stop it, they would do so.* i am trying to point towards a fallacy which aman has made. you can change it and i hope you can change your hearts also while dealing with something so elusive and destructive as terrorism. and if you guys think, that you can ask anyone to adopt such an initiative through this mailing list, then you all are wrong. i would not visit your blog or your facebook as a sign of protest against these specific words: "Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world". it is completely upto you to change it and come up with something else. to put it very simply: how's my friend abdul (being an indian muslim) connected with al-qaeda? in what capacity should abdul, particularly (as your header suggests), who paints and dreams of faiz and nazrul, should go to al-qaeda and ask them to stop their acts? how is he a stakeholder? is every muslim a stake holder in the crimes committed by a group of mujaheedins? why should abdul be pinpointed, when all of you self-righteous peace loving people (including me) are responsible for what has been happening in the country? -anupam From vashsand at hotmail.com Tue Feb 17 00:28:37 2009 From: vashsand at hotmail.com (Sandeep) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 19:58:37 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] lot of teenage girls here Message-ID: wheter the r male or female gender, homo or hetrosexual, nikarwala, jholawala, khadiwala or dadiwala, they just want to talk about themselves and their best friend unless they had fight with her Cheers Sandeep _________________________________________________________________ Drag n’ drop—Get easy photo sharing with Windows Live™ Photos. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/photos.aspx From vashsand at hotmail.com Tue Feb 17 00:45:03 2009 From: vashsand at hotmail.com (Sandeep) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 20:15:03 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmiri roots of art unravelled Message-ID: were ther any sculptures/pics of indian sati -savitri inidic women drinking somras there? think/check before u publish Cheers Sandeep _________________________________________________________________ Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy! http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us From vashsand at hotmail.com Tue Feb 17 00:52:40 2009 From: vashsand at hotmail.com (Sandeep) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 20:22:40 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Hilarious pub-editorials and pop culture Message-ID: ARKaul send a link from nikarwallas Media WatchHilarious pub-editorials and pop culture Renuka Chowdhury has been reported to have condemned “the attack”. What has she been doing all these five years to the TV channels that have been guilty of the utmost vulgarity? This journalist who has been around in the media world for some sixty-five years must confess that he has read nothing more hilarious than some of the editorials in the English language press over the pub incident in Mangalore. It merely shows how ignorant the media is about the traumatic changes that have been taking place in Indian society in just about the last one decade and how people are striving to come to terms with them. The pub attacks has nothing to do with either the RSS or VHP or BJP or even Hinduism, no matter what our silly secularists may say. It has nothing to do with ‘Hindu fundamentalism’ or ‘moral vigilantism’ or ‘assault on civil right’s or ‘civil liberties’, as newspapers like The Hindu (January 28), The Times of India (January 28) or The Indian Express (January 28) or the People’s Union for Civil Liberties have said. Even the so-called Sri Ram Sena is totally irrelevant. To understand what has happened one has to live, as P Sainath, probably the most knowledgeable journalist of his times did, in rural India to know how the minds of villagers work, what offends them and what enthuses them. The trouble with our media stalwarts is that their minds are urban-centred. Widely travelled, they are knowledgeable about pubs in London, nightclubs in European cities and availability of various and questionable forms of entertainment in Europe and the United States. Mangalore is not Paris. It is one of the most sophisticated towns in India but is surrounded by villages which profess different culture. Thanks to the setting-up of class universities in the districts of South Kanara and Udupi the urban centres are hosting students from over fifty countries whose presence and demands are becoming cause for concern. There is palpable tension in the surrounding villages. The villagers feel threatened. Incidentally, I am speaking with authority since I live in a place surrounded by villages which I visit regularly to address children in primary classes, students in secondary and higher elementary schools and in high schools. Parents invite me to their homes and they speak freely to me. Most of them have TV sets and a large section among them express their anger at what they have to witness, day in and day out. These are not politically motivated people or people fed with fundamentalist doctrines. One suspects that they have more respect for women then our civil rights and other organisations claim to have. The women especially hate to see urban women smoking because they feel that their own daughters might get affected by this new culture that is thrust on them. They have nothing to do with the Sri Ram Sena. And for long they have been seething with anger because they have no way to protest. Our city-based editors and their dedicated secular flock have no time to live amongst the villagers and understand their concerns. And that maddens them even more. To say, as did CNN-IBN that what happened in Mangalore is a mater of shame to Karnataka is pure nonsense. There is nothing that either Mangalore or Karnataka has to be ashamed about. What India has to be ashamed about are our TV channels which broadcast programmes of questionable relevance. CNN-IBN will not dare to say that Maharashtra’s shame is the Maharashtra Navnirman Sena. If it did so the MNS goons will probably break up the CNN-IBN studios. The kind of filthy stuff which we have to witness in our TV channelsis a mater of national shame. Of course, the Congress will try to get mileage from the Mangalore pub issue and a sycophantic press will support it. But the Congress Party obviously does not know the public mind. The BJP is doing extremely well in Karnataka and cannot easily be shaken. As The Indian Express in a moment of revelation put it, “Such incidents in an election year are fodder for political parties and some have grabbed it gladly.” Renuka Chowdhury has been reported to have condemned “the attack”. What has she been doing all these five years to the TV channels that have been guilty of the utmost vulgarity? One has even less respect for former Chief Minister of Karnataka, president of Janata Dal (Secular) (whatever that means) who wants the current Home Minister of Karnataka, VS Acharya to “own moral responsibility of the chaotic situation prevailing in the coastal districts and resign”. What, pray, was Kumaraswamy was doing all those years when he was the Chief Minister of Karnataka? There is no chaos in the coastal districts, as he claims. Their problem has arisen from circumstances beyond their control. Perhaps the BJP government should amend existing rules to ensure that women are barred from entering places where liquor is served, whatever the civil rights people may have to say on the subject. Rural India has yet to get accustomed to the changing cultural scene. It takes time. It takes patience. We have come a long way from the thirties of the 20th century when the Congress was opposed to drinking and had prohibition on its agenda. What, one wonders, would Mahatma Gandhi (if people like Renuka Chowdhury know who is) have said watching girls passing drinks to customers in a pub, late at night. Perhaps Sonia Gandhi, Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh and all those posing as defending human rights would like to say something on the subject. The arrogance of the Indian media when it itself needs to answer many questions concerning media morality and ethics is best ignored. There are many questions one would like to ask the media, similar to the ones that The Times of India (January 28) has raised. The tragedy is that our media has no time to study the hows, whys and wherefores of an event before making judgment. News gathering is one-sided. It is easy to get some society women to condemn the violence in the Mangalore pub. “Intolerance is spreading deep and fast in our country”, laments The India Express. It speaks of a “warped sense of Indian tradition and ethos”. The Express must send a team to Mangalore to talk to people from various walks of life, especially people from the surrounding villages. The Express might then learn that its own “warped” sense of righteousness needs looking into. All societies changes. But acceptance of change comes easy when it is gradual. When change occurs overnight, as it were, then it gives way to violence. In judging violence one must be wary of overstepping one’s limits. By its reckless criticism, the media has lost its right to sit on judgment. It has to be made answerable to the people. For far too long has the public been silent about the multiple shortcomings of the media. It needs to be tamed. What the fuck islamisised hindu women have to be afraid of bars but Menka consort of Lord Indra would still like to drink her somras in lap of her companion publically :-) u judge who is hindu and who is not Cheers Sandeep _________________________________________________________________ More than messages–check out the rest of the Windows Live™. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/ From jeebesh at sarai.net Tue Feb 17 11:02:35 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:02:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Commonwealth Games Village Message-ID: The Commonwealth Village houses were being sold at 15,000 Rs per sq ft. Now apparently there is no buyers. So bailout. best jeebesh www.yamunajiyeabhiyaan.blogspot.com To, Sri Tejendra Khanna Hon'ble Lt Governor DELHI Respected Sir, Greetings from Yamuna Jiye Abhiyaan. Recent media reports indicates that DDA is seeking ways and means to bail out the MGF-EMAAR with respect to the ill planned Games Village project in the river bed. Sir, in this context allow us to bring the following to your kind notice: a) Under the PPP model the state (in turn the tax payer) should not be investing any resources under any bail out arrangement or the like. It is unbelievable that a global player like the EMAAR should not be having its own resources to complete a 'small sized' (in view of global operations of EMAAR) project like the one under consideration. We may not succumb to EMAAR to work up a bail out package on an emotional issue like the future of Games, etc. b) Allow us to remind that during the hearing in the Yamuna Case at the High Court of Delhi, the Hon'ble Solicitor General defending the construction was at pains to remind the court about the virtues of the PPP model under which the state was not having to spend any money towards the construction. c) It is also a well known fact that the DLF is having problem in completing the International Convention complex in Dwarka which it had won in a bid. In the light of the above facts and since the client in both the cases is the same, namely the DDA, we suggest, if we may that let the Games Village be shifted to Dwarka and let DLF and EMAAR jointly complete a complex which could be used as a Games Village for the duration of the Games and then have a perfectly valid legacy value as an International Convention Complex later on. The above as suggested is in our view, the most logical planning, which in its wisdom the DDA should have done in the first place. Allow us to mention that this option we had suggested long back too. By doing so, while the river bed would be saved from devastation it is witnessing at the moment, the nation would get redeemed in the eyes of the world since we had promised at Jamaica (when the Games were awarded to IOA for hosting in Delhi) that the "Games Village site is proximate to the Airport". It would also take away the anxiety of the Games organisers of safe and quick transport of the participants from the airport to the village and vice versa. The suggestion as above if implemented, in our view would be win-win from all angles and hence we hope would deserve your all attention. With warm regards, Manoj Misra Convenor -- www.yamunajiyeabhiyaan.blogspot.com From c.anupam at gmail.com Tue Feb 17 12:16:05 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 12:16:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] We must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <341380d00902162246q101c4a61jcd10a320cf3ea778@mail.gmail.com> Dear aman, I wish you good luck. Please excuse me from joining your movement. Over the last few days, I think I have explained why I am opposed to what was written on the header. I would stick to the stand. anyway I dont have to pay a heavy price as my name suggests that I am a hindu. anything goes ok for a hindu in this country. they beat up women when they want, they can shoot leaders at their own cost and still protest that all hindus are not the same type. i don know how would I feel writing this same mail as a muslim. i frankly do not know. all i do is sit and talk to abdul, who is least bothered about what his community is telling him -- just like me. in fact when i told him about this e mail exchange, he laughed and said. "i am opposed to al-qaeda but why should wear it on my sleeve? will they spare my fellow countrymen because im saying so? in case, they do I am ready to walk with a placard along with aman, shanti." with warm regards -anupam P.S.: I was surprised when the mails stopped coming from Sarai after i what i wrote to you. i think it was a mere coincidence. i never complained about the flood of the mails in my inbox, neither the discussions here. however, initiatives and proposals need to be carefully worded. On 2/16/09, Aman Shanti wrote: > > Dear Anupam > I and the people who have drafted this appeal would continue to stick > to the title and its language - we don't think we have made any > fallacy (as you say). It looks a fallacy to you precisely because you > are so rigid in not visiting blog and reading the whole thing and to > see what others have to say, and how many people (about a 100 so far) > have joined the group. You are the only person who is nitpicking the > words. So, thank you if you don't wish to follow what we are trying to > say. Maybe the only fallacy we have made is to announce it on the > Sarai-list. We apologize you for filling up your inbox. > > Our appeal never intends to mean that "Indian Muslims have invited > Al-Qaeda to India" and hence they need to drive it out. What you > simply cannot grasp is the fact that Indian Muslims protesting against > Al-Qaeda is not the same thing as saffronites protesting against > Al-Qaeda (and demanding to "nuke Pakistan"). These are two different > things - and there are a lot of subtleties involved in them, which you > refuse to understand. You would understand if you were a Muslim who is > actually affected by the recent trends in India. > > One doesn't have to be a stakeholder in something in order to protest > against it. If some American citizens protested against the US attack > on Iraq, does it mean that they were stakeholders in the war? If your > Abdul is not interested in appealing to Al-Qaeda (since he is not a > stakeholder), that's fine. But is he happy about whatever is going on > in the world as a human and not as Abdul? > > Aman > > > On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 5:23 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: > dear kshmendra and aman, > > In your recent comment written: > > "It was not I who wrote 'indian muslims should ask al-qaeda to stop terror > attacks'. So your comment that you found 'my line problematic' was a > misdirected comment. > > I personally find nothing objectionable in the 'line' that was actually > posted by Aman-Shanti: """ Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal > to > Al-Qaeda and its allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in > the world." > > so logically, my misdirected comment actually hit the right spot. and as > you > are now saying that there is nothing objectionable in aman shanti's > comment, > so you are also a party to it. > > to repeat what i said, earlier, the proposition that "indian muslims are > against terrorism" is a good idea. even, your political stand on Jamia > encounters is appreciated. but then what is this message you are sending in > the header: "Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening > India."? > > i personally have no problems with such initiatives but at least aman > should > have used the right words.* aman's (your's too kshmendra) understanding of > the situation after reading the header looks like indian muslims have been > inviting alqaeda all this while and now if they ask to stop it, they would > do so.* i am trying to point towards a fallacy which aman has made. you can > change it and i hope you can change your hearts also while dealing with > something so elusive and destructive as terrorism. > > and if you guys think, that you can ask anyone to adopt such an initiative > through this mailing list, then you all are wrong. i would not visit your > blog or your facebook as a sign of protest against these specific words: > "Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its allies > to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world". it is > completely upto you to change it and come up with something else. to put it > very simply: > > how's my friend abdul (being an indian muslim) connected with al-qaeda? in > what capacity should abdul, particularly (as your header > suggests), who paints and dreams of faiz and nazrul, should go to al-qaeda > and ask them to stop their acts? how is he a stakeholder? is every muslim a > stake holder in the crimes committed by a group of mujaheedins? why > should abdul be pinpointed, when all of you self-righteous peace loving > people (including me) are responsible for what has been happening in the > country? > > -anupam > From pawan.durani at gmail.com Tue Feb 17 13:26:39 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 13:26:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] To: Mr Omar Abdullah In-Reply-To: <1fd66c110902140302l52cfffa4n6fd3ff308f09b337@mail.gmail.com> References: <1fd66c110902140302l52cfffa4n6fd3ff308f09b337@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902162356u43e04a4y81fb68f799d4eff@mail.gmail.com> It would have been justified if the killings of minority community would also have been discussed. The details of the same may be found here http://www.kashmiri-pandit.org/sundry/genocide.html On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Shivam V wrote: > To: Mr. Omar Abdullah > Chief Minister > Jammu and Kashmir > > From: The International People's Tribunal on Human Rights and Justice in > Kashmir > > Conveners: > Dr. Angana Chatterji, Associate Professor, Anthropology, California > Institute of Integral Studies > Advocate Parvez Imroz, Founder, Jammu and Kashmir Coalition of Civil > Society > Gautam Navlakha, Editorial Consultant, Economic and Political Weekly > Zahir-Ud-Din, Vice-President, Jammu and Kashmir Coalition of Civil Society > > Legal Counsel: > Advocate Mihir Desai, Mumbai High Court, Supreme Court of India, > Co-founder, Indian People's Tribunal > > Liaison: > Khurram Parvez, Programme Coordinator, Jammu and Kashmir Coalition of > Civil Society > > > > February 11, 2009 > > Re.: Memorandum on Human Rights, Peace, and Social Justice > > > Dear Mr. Omar Abdullah: > > We write you today on behalf of the International People's Tribunal on > Human Rights and Justice in Indian-administered Kashmir. [A brief on > the Tribunal's premise and objectives may be found at: > http://www.kashmirprocess.org/premise.html.] > > We write, mindful that you have promised attentiveness and > accountability to human rights issues in Kashmir, to bring to your > attention the need for appropriate action with regard to the > following: > > 1. Disappearances: You have raised issues of enforced disappearances > in Kashmir in the past. We ask that you order a full-scale > investigation under provisions of the Commissions of Inquiry Act, > 1952, and/or other relevant laws, within a stipulated and reasonable > timeframe. > > We ask as well that all laws of Jammu and Kashmir incorporate the > premise of the United Nations Declaration on the Protection of All > Persons From Enforced Disappearance, the International Convention for > the Protection of All Persons from Enforced Disappearance, and the > Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading > Treatment or Punishment. > > 2. Killing by Police Firings, Fake Encounter Killings, and > Extrajudicial Killings: We ask that you use all authority granted you > by law to take strong and effective preventive measures to ensure that > these are not repeated. As well, we urge that the cases that have been > pending in courts, and those that have not been filed, be > expeditiously dealt with and the perpetrators be brought to justice. > We ask that the Government of Jammu and Kashmir follow the cases > pending for sanctions before the Government of India's Home Ministry > under Section 7 of Armed Forces Special Powers Act, 1958, (AFSPA). We > ask that the state make public the number of cases in which sanctions > have been sought from the Government of India, and the number of cases > in which the same have been granted. > > 3. Mass Graves: We note the existence of mass graves in Kashmir, as > verified by the Association of Parents of Disappeared Persons and the > International People's Tribunal for Human Rights and Justice in > Kashmir in 2008. We note that there are connections between the number > of persons disappeared and these unmarked, unidentified, nameless, and > unknown graves. We also note that various international institutions > and bodies, such as the European Parliament, have referred to this > issue and made recommendations for action. We ask that your government > offer protection to the sites to not permit their desecration or > destruction, enable independent and transparent investigations drawing > upon varied, credible, and international expertise, and institute an > independent and transparent judicial commission of inquiry. > > 4. Torture: It has been acknowledged by international human rights > organizations that the use of torture by military and paramilitary > forces is widespread in Kashmir. [See documentations available at > http://www.kashmirprocess.org/resources.html.] As well, the Government > of India is yet to ratify the Convention Against Torture and Other > Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, although it has > been a signatory since October 1997. In this context, we ask that the > Government of Jammu and Kashmir institute a comprehensive ban on > practises of torture as defined by international law and humanitarian > ethics. > > 5. Detention and Torture Centres: We ask that unlawful detention and > torture centres, including in army camps, be identified, made public, > and banned. Further, we ask that appropriate reparations be determined > and undertaken with regard to unlawful and unconstitutional practises > undertaken in these camps and centres. We ask that international > institutions, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross > (ICRC), be permitted to visit the above places to assess the situation > independently. > > 6. Gendered and Sexualized Violences: We note the severity of gendered > and sexualized violences that have been perpetrated in Kashmir in the > last two decades. Women and children, and others, have been victimized > by horrific forms of brutality, including rape, gang and collective > rape, perpetrated on women. Other categories of victimization include > women whose male partners are missing, labelled 'half-widows'. Women > and children, and others, have been subjected to physical and > psychological torture and trauma, and social and literal > displacements. We note the urgency of undertaking ethical, > transparent, and independent assessments of the above in conditions > that ensure the safety and security of the survivors/victims, and > undertaking requisite reparations and rehabilitation. > > 7. Prisoners Rights: We ask that prisoners' rights not be violated, > and that medical aid be readily made available, and that the right to > legal counsel, due process, fair and speedy trials be upheld. > > 8. Rights of Former Militants: We ask that the civil liberties of > former militants and their families be respected. We note that the > civic and political rights of former militants, who are now living > different and committed lives, continue to be violated by personnel of > the military and paramilitary forces. We note that some of them have > been subjected to torture after serving sentences and deemed > 'rehabilitated' by the justice system. We note that many still have to > report to local camps of the security forces on a weekly basis. We > note as well that former militants and their families continue to be > subjected to maltreatment and denied access to social life, such as to > institutions, employment, and pensions. > > 9. Juvenile Justice: We ask that youth not be taken into custody, > held, or tried as adults, and that their rights to legal counsel, due > process, and fair and speedy trials be upheld. We ask that a law be > enacted that guarantees juvenile justice, that safeguards the rights > of juveniles in conflict with law, and neglected and destitute > juveniles. > > We note that young people in general, particularly girls and young > women, must be guaranteed an environment free of sexual harassment and > violence. > > We note that young people need to be guaranteed freedom from forms of > harassment that undermine their right to education. Impediment to > livelihood of adults creates economic insecurity that impacts youth. > Family livelihood insecurity compels youth to earn income rather than > foreground education and development. Proximity to systemic violence > produces severe emotional trauma that manifests as depression, > suicidal behaviours, self-medication through drugs, as well as retreat > and isolation as coping strategies. There are inadequate provisions to > address these issues and respond to these needs. We urge recognition > of this reality and the allocation of resources to address these > issues. > > 10. Access to Justice: We ask that all persons seeking to access > institutions of law and justice be treated with respect and > non-violence by law enforcement agencies. We note that, in countless > instances, complaints are disregarded by the police, false first > information reports (FIRs) filed, and people's request to file FIRS > are met with disrespect, even force. > > 11. Landmines: We note that the placement of landmines along the > border and other sensitive areas in Jammu and Kashmir continues to > endanger lives, including those of children. While the Government of > India is not a signatory to the Convention on the Prohibition of the > Use, Stockpiling, Production and Transfer of Anti-Personnel Mines and > on their Destruction, and has continued to justify landmine use in > Jammu and Kashmir, we ask that the Government of Jammu and Kashmir > institute a comprehensive ban on the use of landmines. We ask that an > audit be conducted to ascertain the impact of landmines on local > communities, to determine the extent of casualties, devastation, and > displacement, and undertake rehabilitation of those affected and > de-mining. > > 12. Transparency: We urge that the Government of Jammu and Kashmir > ensure that international organizations and institutions, that have > access to other places, are allowed to visit Jammu and Kashmir. We > note that the ability of international institutions to work with local > civil society institutions in Jammu and Kashmir is crucial to > interrupting isolation and producing accountability. > > We ask that thousands of families who have been denied passports, > including human rights defenders and journalists, be provided the > same. > > We ask that, prior to contractual agreements and implementation, all > development projects be assessed for their human rights implications. > > 13. Laws and States of Exception: We note your commitment to the > revocation and withdrawal of security related legislation that has > been in contravention of international humanitarian laws and norms, > such as the Armed Forces Special Powers Act, 1958, (AFSPA), enacted in > Jammu and Kashmir in 1990, the Disturbed Areas Act, 1976, enacted in > Jammu and Kashmir in 1992, and the Jammu and Kashmir Public Safety Act > of 1978. We reiterate the urgent need for the revocation of the Armed > Forces Special Powers Act, 1958, the Disturbed Areas Act, 1976, the > Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act, 1967, and the Jammu and Kashmir > Public Safety Act of 1978. We also note that continued criminal > proceedings using the Prevention of Terrorism Act, 2002, and the > Terrorist and Disruptive Activities (Prevention) Act, 1985, 1987, must > be stopped. > > While the safety and security of citizens must remain of paramount > concern, we ask that you remain vigilant to the problematic parameters > and consequences of certain national security laws used to proscribe > political dissent and deny freedom of expression, freedom of speech, > and freedom of assembly, and deny the democratic right to peaceful > mobilization and dissent. We note that certain national security laws, > in the name of retributive justice, have been/may be used to > perpetrate state violence, subvert due process of law, undermine civil > liberties, and freedom of the press, eroding rule of law, permitting > torture and sexualized violence on those in state custody, > criminalizing innocent persons, and, in effect, undermining the safety > and security of citizens. > > 14. Commissions of Inquiry: We ask that the reports and/or findings of > various Commissions of Inquiry that have been instituted to inquire > into instances of gross violations of human rights, law, and social > justice be made public and that these commissions be ordered to > complete their charge. Further, from available information, we > register our concern that between 2000-2007 only three statutory > inquiries have been commissioned and that other inquiries instituted > have been magisterial and administrative probes. We ask that, based on > ethical assessments of gross violations of human rights, law, and > social justice, relevant statutory inquiries be ordered, as > appropriate, to investigate these crimes. We ask that various > agencies, including military and paramilitary institutions, be > required to cooperate with instituted commissions in order that they > may carry out their investigations. We ask that the recommendations of > the commissions be enacted. > > 15. Minorities: We note that peace and reconciliation requires > commitment to minority rights and issues, and the ethical and > transparent resolution of injustices. We ask that an audit be > conducted to ascertain the status of minorities in Kashmir, and > related to the displacement, dislocation, and rehabilitation of > minorities in Jammu and Kashmir, to propose mechanisms for reparation > and reconciliation. > > 16. Truth and Reconciliation Commission: We note your public > commitment to instituting a 'Truth and Reconciliation Commission > (TRC)'. We are hopeful that you will appreciate that such a process > must facilitate the implementation of justice as a precondition to > reconciliation. We further note that the viability and success of a > TRC is only possible in a context where demilitarization has taken > place, enabling a social context in which the will and freedom of the > people of Kashmir can be exercised. > > 17. In conclusion, we write you today mindful of how the conditions > for peace and prosperity are linked to the possibility and necessity > of justice in Kashmir. We understand the work of the International > People's Tribunal for Human Rights and Justice in Kashmir as enabling > the work of justice. Toward that, we hope and expect that the Tribunal > will continue to undertake its work in conditions that are not > impeded. > > > Yours Sincerely, > > Angana Chatterji, Parvez Imroz, Gautam Navlakha, Zahir-Ud-Din, Mihir > Desai, Khurram Parvez > > > Contact: > Khurram Parvez > E-mail: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org > T: +91-194-2482820 > M: +91-9419013553 > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Tue Feb 17 13:59:22 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 13:59:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmiri roots of art unravelled In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6353c690902170029p219d907ej2bf805d78b5880e9@mail.gmail.com> you better visit the exhibition and find for yourself. Seems you are in a habit of drinking Somras in some one's lap. On 2/17/09, Sandeep wrote: > > > were ther any sculptures/pics of indian sati -savitri inidic > women drinking somras there? think/check before u publish > Cheers > Sandeep > _________________________________________________________________ > Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live > Spaces. It's easy! > > http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- Aditya Raj Kaul From anansi1 at earthlink.net Tue Feb 17 15:30:14 2009 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul D. Miller) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 05:00:14 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [Reader-list] India Climate Change Tour Message-ID: <29346437.1234864814710.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I just thought I'd pass this on to the list. It's based in India and quite interesting. Paul India Climate Solutions http://www.indiaclimatesolutions.com/ “Why did this tour happen?” asked Ringwald. “Why this mad, insane plan to travel across India in a caravan of solar electric cars and jatropha trucks with solar music, art, dance and a potent message for climate solutions? Well ... the world needs crazy ideas to change things, because the conventional way of thinking is not working anymore.” They Just got back from a tour of India using solar powered vehicles and a climate chnage awareness dance troupe! An excerpt: If there is one thing that I know we all learned during the Climate Solutions Road Tour, it is that when you have a positive vision for the future, then it is up to you to make it happen. We are all artists, and the reality we create is our greatest artwork. We have a choice every day on what we do and how the world should be. This team of passionate people on the road tour and all those involved along the way saw an exciting new vision. We all knew it was mad, but that spurred us to do even more. Because we realized that it is the crazy ideas that change the world. I went on this tour in the search for inspiration, not just for myself but for the world at large. We need good stories these days--stories of hope and climate heroes and green successes. This one-month journey was inundated with hope, with joy, with a positive belief that we can make a difference; that we have the solutions to climate change already; and that the greatest solution is our human capacity to take action! The Road Tour was just a beginning. It was the launch of the Climate Solutions Project and the beginning of an insistence that we focus on solutions and action. There is no reason to continue the way we are. The solutions are all right in front of us today. Read more... From pavilion at pavilionmagazine.org Fri Feb 13 22:12:21 2009 From: pavilion at pavilionmagazine.org (Pavilion) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 08:42:21 -0800 Subject: [Reader-list] new art center in Bucharest/nou centru de arta in Bucuresti Message-ID: <09e79b958aded4aa281442beb8d38394@pavilionmagazine.org> DESCHIDEREA OFICIALA PAVILION UNICREDIT CU "STATEMENT", CURATOR: LIA PERJOVSCHI BUCURESTI - Joi, 19 februarie 2009, va avea loc deschiderea oficiala a PAVILION UNICREDIT, centrul pentru arta si cultura contemporana, cu expozitia "STATEMENT" curatoriata de Lia Perjovschi. Programul zilei: 11.00 - 12.00 -- Conferinta de presa, urmata de un tur explicativ al centrului si al expozitiei. 12.00 - 13.00 -- Sesiune de Q&A (intrebari si raspunsuri). Participanti: Lia Perjovschi, Eugen Radescu, Razvan Ion, Andrei Craciun. 19.00 -- Deschiderea oficiala a expozitiei "STATEMENT", curator: Lia Perjovschi. 21.00 -- Punch Glam Party with kitschy pop music video projection. "STATEMENT", curator: Lia Perjovschi 19 februarie - 19 aprilie 2009 Pentru prima data in ultimii 20 de ani o banca devine centru de arta. Un centru in centrul orasului si nu in periferie asa cum logica tranzitiei ne-a obisnuit pana acum. Spatiile artei contemporane care nu au fost dislocate, inchise sau aruncate la margine, devin tot mai mici sau tot mai comerciale. Istoria artei contemporane romanesti este istoria pierderilor& un loc, o bursa, un om, niste idei. Si ca intodeauna o exagerare e acoperita de alta, lipsa unitatilor diverse este politic acoperita cu Unitatea Centrala, prea mare si prea dependenta: muzeul. O revista de arta care a creat o BIenala si acum deschide UN centru permanent pentru arta contemporana. In mijlocul PAVILION UNICREDIT nu sta cum am putea crede spectacolul, ci arhiva/informatia. Fundamentala este cunoasterea, resursa. Orice loc nou si orice proiect nou incepe cu un statement. In limba romana: declaratie de credinta. Ce se vrea si ce ar putea fi acel loc. STATEMENT este un plan de expozitie. Un traseu. Un proces. Story board-ul unui centru de arta contemporana astazi. O demonstratie conceptuala a liniilor de forta care ordoneaza viata intelectuala si viata pur si simplu. Un program multidisciplinar alcatuit cu modestie (carti, ziare, citate). O banca de date si de posibilitati. Arta nu-i de una singura. Arta este asezata in context cultural, politic si stiintific. Lucrari care daca sunt vazute trebuie date cadou, replici mai interesante decat originalul, sute de artisti in text, imagini, cartoline. Istoria institutionala in pungi. O harta de idei care o poate lua razna sau se poate structura linistit. Un laborator in care publicul devine cercetator. STATEMENT rupe cercul vicios alcatuit din umilinta financiara, imbecilitate birocratica, neintelegere si nestiinta culturala, autism institutional, reducerea la starea de a cere si de a fi mereu respins fara explicatii, starea lui "totul impotriva ta" si foloseste resursele "Do It Yourself" pe care curatorul cercetator le-a coagulat 20 de ani. Ce definim ca obiect artistic? De unde pana unde se poate intinde cercetarea artistica? Cat de liberi suntem in gandire? Fara sa stim am devenit conservatori. Am vrea sa fim avangardisti sa rasturnam lucrurile dar le facem in aceeasi logica. Ne plangem de aceleasi lucruri. Repetam acelesi greseli. Suntem cultural in efectul tunel. Ce este de facut? Daca schimbam unghiul de vedere? Daca ne uitam pe ambele parti ale lunetei? Aici in univers. Aici pe pamant. Aici in Romania. Aici in PAVILION. In STATEMENT resursa nu este numai teoreticianul de arta sau filosoful culturii ci si artistul, cosmonautul, specialistul in string theory, astrologul si inventatorul. Sunt artistii inventatori? Cum arata lumea vazuta dinafara lumii? Este un tricou arta? Este o cartolina o lucrare de arta? Ce ne spun imaginile downloadate de pe internet si pe urma trase la aparatul de copiat? Ce inseamna acces democratic la informatie? Pentru cat timp ne putem baza pe antologia populara? De ce Second Life imita viata? Stim din ce suntem facuti (genomul), stim unde ne aflam (universul), stim insa de ce? (Lia Perjovschi tradusa pentru presa de Dan Perjovschi) Ce este PAVILION UNICREDIT Majoritatea celor 140 de milioane de locuitori ai Rusiei traiesc in blocuri comuniste, in apartamente pe care le numesc "Hrusciovchi", dupa numele fostului lider comunist in vremea caruia au fost construite, in anii '60. Totul a pornit insa de la Stalin. El le-a gandit si le-a pus in practica. tara dominata timp de 45 de ani de catre Rusia, Romania se poate mindri cu acelasi tip de habitat. "Hrusciovchi" au niste bucatarii minuscule, ceea ce reprezinta un mare pas inainte fata de asa-numitele "kommunalki" (acestea aveau bucatariile, baile si uneori chiar si dormitoarele la comun). Ideea omului nou, care nu are nimic de ascuns, a trecut in plan secund. Astazi, confortul devine arma principala a propagandei. Asezat in Piata Victoriei, PAVILION UNICREDIT, se afla la parterul unui astfel de bloc, spatiu devenit sediu de banca in 1993, si ramas la fel timp de 15 ani. Constructia blocului a inceput in timpul regimului comunist si a fost finalizata la 5 ani dupa caderea acestuia. "Hrusciovchi" din centrul Bucurestilor este martorul transformarilor unei societati staliniste catre o societate capitalista puternic marcata politic si social. PAVILION UNICREDIT foloseste acest spatiu pentru mesajele sale, pentru pozitionare (vizavi de cladirea puterii executive - Guvernul Romaniei) cit si pentru istoria sa, brusc uitata. Un spatiu fara o istorie speciala, al istoriei intrerupte, al intirzierilor revolutionare. Un spatiu al cunoasterii si al interesului in societate, oras si comunitate. PAVILION UNICREDIT este un spatiu independent work-in-progress, un spatiu de productie si cercetare al vizualului, al discursivului si al performativului. Este un loc al gindirii critice si care promoveaza o intelegere implicata socio-politic a artei si a institutiilor culturale. Functia vitala a spatiului va ramine, insa, concretizarea. PAVILION UNICREDIT va organiza 3-4 expozitii anual, evenimente discursive, un program de proiectii de filme si un program educational informal numit Free Academy. In spatiul centrului va functiona una dintre cele mai importante zone de informare din tara compusa din CONTEMPORARY ART ARCHIVE (o arhiva creata de Lia si Dan Perjovschi) si PAVILION RESOURCE ROOM (o non-arhiva creata de Razvan Ion si Eugen Radescu). Designul spatiului, architectura sa, a fost realizata de un arhitect roman vizionar, Adriana Mereuta, care a incercat relaxarea unei structuri comuniste. Spatiul este neobisnuit pentru un centru de arta contemporana si a fost realizat astfel incit sa pastreze elementele spatiului original, al constructiei de tip comunist, in acelasi timp adaugind functionalitate si concept utilitatii acestuia, pastrind in centrul sau ca punct de greutate arhivele/informatia. Despre UniCredit Tiriac Bank UniCredit Tiriac Bank este o institutie financiara ale carei activitati de sustinere cultural artistica pun un accent deosebit pe zona artelor vizuale, acoperind totodata domeniul muzical şi al literaturii. Banca sustine financiar primul centru independent de arta şi cultura deschis sub numele Pavilion UniCredit, fiind, totodata, partener strategic al Bienalei Internationale de Arta Contemporana Bucureşti. Componenta cultural artistica a strategiei de etica şi responsabilitate a bancii se concretizeaza in implicarea sa in proiecte pe termen lung, pe care le finanteaza in calitate de partener principal - Festivalul International de Film Anonimul, Festivalul International George Enescu sau proiectul de arta comunitara metroArt -, deruland totodata initiative proprii precum este concursul de debut literar UniCredit. (informatii si fisier PDF: http://center.pavilionmagazine.org/comunicat_19ian09.pdf) --- Echipa Director: Razvan Ion Research Curator: Lia Perjovschi Coordinator: Andrei Craciun Project manager: Raluca Pop Assistant Director: Ioana Nitu Website/Software design: Alexandru Enachioaie Space Design/Architecture: Adriana Mereuta Intern: Silvia Vasilescu Board Dan Perjovschi Eugen Radescu (presedinte) Ioana Paun Felix Vogel --- PAVILION UNICREDIT este primul centru pentru arta si cultura contemporana din Romania si este rezultatul unei colaborari indelungate intre revista PAVILION, BUCHAREST BIENNALE si UNICREDIT TIRIAC BANK. --- PAVILION, BUCHAREST BIENNALE, PAVILION UNICREDIT sint proiecte concepute si fondate de Razvan Ion & Eugen Radescu. --- Adresa: Sos. Nicolae Titulescu nr. 1 (Piata Victoriei) Bucuresti Email: pavilion at pavilionmagazine.org T: 031 103 4131 --- Program de vizitare: Marti-Vineri 12.00 - 19.00, Simbata-Duminica 14.00 - 21.00, Luni - inchis --- Sustinut de: Pilsner Urquell Parteneri media: Hotnews, 24Fun, Feeder.ro, Alternativ.ro, revista 22. www.pavilionunicredit.ro PAVILION UNICREDIT OFFICIAL OPENING WITH "STATEMENT" CURATED BY LIA PERJOVSCHI BUCHAREST, February 19th, 2009: PAVILION UNICREDIT, the centre for contemporary art and culture, announces its official opening with the exhibition STATEMENT, curated by Lia Perjovschi. The Days Agenda: 11.00 - 12.00: Press conference, followed by a presentation tour of the centre and the exhibition. 12.00 - 13.00: Q&A Session (Questions & Answers  open discussion). Participants: Lia Perjovschi, Eugen Rădescu, Răzvan Ion, Andrei Crăciun. 19.00: Official opening of the exhibition "STATEMENT". Curator: Lia Perjovschi. 21.00: Punch Glam Party with kitschy pop music video projection. "STATEMENT" exhibition, curated by Lia Perjovschi February 19th  April 19th 2009 For the first time in the last twenty years, a bank becomes an art centre. A centre in the centre of the city, not at its outskirts, as we were used so far by the logic of transition. The spaces for contemporary art, had they not been already displaced, closed or thrown at the periphery, are becoming smaller and smaller or more business-related. The history of the Romanian contemporary art is the history of the losses  a place, a market, a man, a few ideas. And, as always, an exaggeration is surpassed by an other, and the lack of the assorted art units is politically concealed by the ever too big and too dependent Central Unit: the museum. An art magazine created a BIennale and now opens ONE permanent centre for the contemporary art. The midpoint of PAVILION UNICREDIT is not the show, as some may think, but the archive/ information. The main focus here is the the knowledge, the resource. Any new place and any new project starts with a STATEMENT. In Romanian: declararaţie de credinţă. What the place want to be, and what it might be. STATEMENT is an expositional plan. A route. A process. The storyboard of a contemporary art centre nowadays. A conceptual expression for the lines of force structuring the intellectual life and the life in general. A multidisciplinary programme created with modesty (books, newspapers, quotations). A data bank and a possibilities bank. Art is not alone. Art is positioned in a cultural, political and scientific framework. Works of art admired and then given away as gifts, replicas more interesting than the original, hundreds of artists in texts, images, postcards. Institutional history in bags. A map of ideas that may go wild or may structure itself peacefully. A laboratory where the spectators become researchers. STATEMENT breaks the vicious circle built up out of financial humiliation, bureaucratic imbecility, cultural ignorance and lack of understanding, institutional autism, the reduction to the state of always asking and always being rejected without any explanations, and the state of everything against you. STATEMENT uses the Do-It-Yourself resources that the curator-researcher has coalesced for the last twenty years. What do we define as an artistic object? Where should the artistic research start and how far can it go? How free is our thinking? We have become conservative without even knowing it. We wish to be avant-gardists, to overthrow things, but we do everything within the same logic frame. We complain about the same things. We reiterate the same mistakes. Culturally, we are in the tunnel effect. What can be done? What if we change the perspective? What if we watch through the both ends of the telescope? Here in Universe. Here on Earth. Here in Romania. Here in Pavilion. The resource in STATEMENT is not only the art theorist or the cultural philosopher, but also the artist, the astronaut, the string theory specialist, the astronomer and the inventor. Are the artists also inventors? How does the world look when seen from outside the world? Is a T-shirt art? Is a postcard a work of art? What do some images tell us when they are downloaded from the Internet and then xerocopied? What does the democratic access to information imply? For how long can we count on the popular anthology? Why does Second Life imitate life? We know what we are made from (our genome), we know where we are (in the Universe), but do we know why? (Lia Perjovschi translated for media by Dan Perjovschi). What is PAVILION UNICREDIT Most of the 140 million inhabitants from Russia are living in Communist block of flats, in apartments they call hruschiovi (khrushchevs), after the name of the former Communist leader of the 60s, the period when they were built. But the initiator of the project was actually Stalin. He imagined them and he also turned the project into reality. As a country dominated by Russia for 45 years, Romania may pride itself on the same type of habitat. Hruschiovi have some small kitchenettes, and this was a big step forward, as compared to the so-called kommunalki (they had common kitchens, common bathrooms and, sometimes, even common bedrooms. The idea of the New Man, who has nothing to hide, went into the background. Today the comfort becomes the main propagandistic tool. PAVILION UNICREDIT is located in Victoria Square, at the ground floor of such an apartment building. The aforementioned space became a banking center in 1993 and it has stayed like this for the last 15 years. The actual building of the edifice started in the years of the communist regime and it was concluded five years after the fall of the communism. The hruschiovi from the center of Bucharest have witnessed the changes of a Stalinist society into a capitalist society, with strong social and political marks. PAVILION UNICREDIT uses this space for its messages, for its location (right across the center of the executive power  the Romanian Government building) and, moreover, for its hastily forgotten history. It is a space without an extraordinary history, a space of the broken up history, of the revolutionary delays. A space for the knowledge and interest in society, city and community. PAVILION UNICREDIT is a work-in-progress independent space, a space for the production and research in the fields of visual, discursive and performative. It is a space of the critical thinking, and it promotes a certain artistic perspective on art and cultural institutions, one that implies a socio-political involvement. Still, the basic function of the space will remain the concretisation. PAVILION UNICREDIT will set up every year three-four exhibitions, discursive events, a film projection schedule and an informal educational program entitled The Free Academy. The centre will shelter one of the most important areas of information in the entire country, which is constituted of the CONTEMPORARY ART ARCHIVE (archive created by Lia and Dan Perjovschi) and the PAVILION RESOURCE ROOM (a non-archive created by Răzvan Ion and Eugen Rădescu). The structural design, the architecture of the space was created by Adriana Mereuţă, one of the most remarkable Romanian architects. The space is an unusual one for a centre of contemporary art and it was designed in such a way so as to preserve the elements of the original space, of the Communist building. Simultaneously, the architectural project added functionality and conception to is utility, while maintaining as centre of gravity, in its core, the archives/informations. About UniCredit Ţiriac Bank UniCredit Ţiriac Bank is a financial institution whose activities of cultural support place a significant emphasis on visual arts, also covering the areas of music and literature. The bank financially supports the first independent contemporary art and culture centre opened under the name of Pavilion UniCredit, being at the same time a strategic partener of the Bucharest Biennale of Contemporary Art. The cultural component of its sustainability strategy is visible in the bank's involvement in long-term projects which it supports as a main partner - Anonimul International Film Festival, George Enescu International Festival or the metroArt Community Art Project - also developing own initiatives as the UniCredit Literary Debut competition and the grant program offered to prominent post-graduate students of the National Art University in Bucharest. (for PDF file and more info: http://center.pavilionmagazine.org/en/pressrelease_19jan09.pdf) --- Team Director: Răzvan Ion Research Curator: Lia Perjovschi Coordinator: Andrei Craciun Project manager: Raluca Pop Assistant Director: Ioana Nitu Website/ Software design: Alexandru Enachioaie Space Design/ Architecture: Adriana Mereuta Intern: Silvia Vasilescu Board Dan Perjovschi Eugen Radescu (chairman) Ioana Paun Felix Vogel --- PAVILION UNICREDIT is the first centre for contemporary art and culture from Romania and it is the result of an extended cooperation between PAVILION magazine, BUCHAREST BIENNALE and UNICREDIT TIRIAC BANK. --- The projects PAVILION, BUCHAREST BIENNALE, PAVILION UNICREDIT are devised and founded by Razvan Ion and Eugen Radescu. --- Visiting address: Şos. Nicolae Titulescu, 1 (Victoria Square), Bucharest E-mail: pavilion at pavilionmagazine.org Telephone: 031-103-4131 --- Opening hours: Tuesday-Friday: 12.00  19.00 p.m. Saturday-Sunday: 14.00  21.00 p.m. Closed on Mondays --- Supported by: Pilsner Urquell Media partners: Hotnews, 24Fun, Feeder.ro, Alternativ.ro, 22 magazine. www.pavilionunicredit.ro --- To unsubscribe click http://pavilionmagazine.org/phplist/?p=unsubscribe&uid=e338aa962978d4a63145054620e4b299 To forward this message click http://pavilionmagazine.org/phplist/?p=forward&uid=e338aa962978d4a63145054620e4b299&mid=51 From jashneazadifilm at gmail.com Sat Feb 14 12:03:33 2009 From: jashneazadifilm at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 12:03:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A wish list for the young prince Message-ID: <52d5781f0902132233m29719e07h3eba0f61694c4c4b@mail.gmail.com> This letter, addressed to the newly elected Chief Minister of Jammu & Kashmir, provides a very useful list of the kinds of issues that confront democracy in the troubled state. best Sanjay Kak -------------------------- To: Mr. Omar Abdullah Chief Minister Jammu and Kashmir From: The International People's Tribunal on Human Rights and Justice in Kashmir Conveners: Dr. Angana Chatterji, Associate Professor, Anthropology, California Institute of Integral Studies Advocate Parvez Imroz, Founder, Jammu and Kashmir Coalition of Civil Society Gautam Navlakha, Editorial Consultant, Economic and Political Weekly Zahir-Ud-Din, Vice-President, Jammu and Kashmir Coalition of Civil Society Legal Counsel: Advocate Mihir Desai, Mumbai High Court, Supreme Court of India, Co-founder, Indian People's Tribunal Liaison: Khurram Parvez, Programme Coordinator, Jammu and Kashmir Coalition of Civil Society February 11, 2009 Re.: Memorandum on Human Rights, Peace, and Social Justice Dear Mr. Omar Abdullah: We write you today on behalf of the International People's Tribunal on Human Rights and Justice in Indian-administered Kashmir. [A brief on the Tribunal's premise and objectives may be found at: http://www.kashmirprocess.org/premise.html.] We write, mindful that you have promised attentiveness and accountability to human rights issues in Kashmir, to bring to your attention the need for appropriate action with regard to the following: 1. Disappearances: You have raised issues of enforced disappearances in Kashmir in the past. We ask that you order a full-scale investigation under provisions of the Commissions of Inquiry Act, 1952, and/or other relevant laws, within a stipulated and reasonable timeframe. We ask as well that all laws of Jammu and Kashmir incorporate the premise of the United Nations Declaration on the Protection of All Persons From Enforced Disappearance, the International Convention for the Protection of All Persons from Enforced Disappearance, and the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment. 2. Killing by Police Firings, Fake Encounter Killings, and Extrajudicial Killings: We ask that you use all authority granted you by law to take strong and effective preventive measures to ensure that these are not repeated. As well, we urge that the cases that have been pending in courts, and those that have not been filed, be expeditiously dealt with and the perpetrators be brought to justice. We ask that the Government of Jammu and Kashmir follow the cases pending for sanctions before the Government of India's Home Ministry under Section 7 of Armed Forces Special Powers Act, 1958, (AFSPA). We ask that the state make public the number of cases in which sanctions have been sought from the Government of India, and the number of cases in which the same have been granted. 3. Mass Graves: We note the existence of mass graves in Kashmir, as verified by the Association of Parents of Disappeared Persons and the International People's Tribunal for Human Rights and Justice in Kashmir in 2008. We note that there are connections between the number of persons disappeared and these unmarked, unidentified, nameless, and unknown graves. We also note that various international institutions and bodies, such as the European Parliament, have referred to this issue and made recommendations for action. We ask that your government offer protection to the sites to not permit their desecration or destruction, enable independent and transparent investigations drawing upon varied, credible, and international expertise, and institute an independent and transparent judicial commission of inquiry. 4. Torture: It has been acknowledged by international human rights organizations that the use of torture by military and paramilitary forces is widespread in Kashmir. [See documentations available at http://www.kashmirprocess.org/resources.html.] As well, the Government of India is yet to ratify the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, although it has been a signatory since October 1997. In this context, we ask that the Government of Jammu and Kashmir institute a comprehensive ban on practises of torture as defined by international law and humanitarian ethics. 5. Detention and Torture Centres: We ask that unlawful detention and torture centres, including in army camps, be identified, made public, and banned. Further, we ask that appropriate reparations be determined and undertaken with regard to unlawful and unconstitutional practises undertaken in these camps and centres. We ask that international institutions, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), be permitted to visit the above places to assess the situation independently. 6. Gendered and Sexualized Violences: We note the severity of gendered and sexualized violences that have been perpetrated in Kashmir in the last two decades. Women and children, and others, have been victimized by horrific forms of brutality, including rape, gang and collective rape, perpetrated on women. Other categories of victimization include women whose male partners are missing, labelled 'half-widows'. Women and children, and others, have been subjected to physical and psychological torture and trauma, and social and literal displacements. We note the urgency of undertaking ethical, transparent, and independent assessments of the above in conditions that ensure the safety and security of the survivors/victims, and undertaking requisite reparations and rehabilitation. 7. Prisoners Rights: We ask that prisoners' rights not be violated, and that medical aid be readily made available, and that the right to legal counsel, due process, fair and speedy trials be upheld. 8. Rights of Former Militants: We ask that the civil liberties of former militants and their families be respected. We note that the civic and political rights of former militants, who are now living different and committed lives, continue to be violated by personnel of the military and paramilitary forces. We note that some of them have been subjected to torture after serving sentences and deemed 'rehabilitated' by the justice system. We note that many still have to report to local camps of the security forces on a weekly basis. We note as well that former militants and their families continue to be subjected to maltreatment and denied access to social life, such as to institutions, employment, and pensions. 9. Juvenile Justice: We ask that youth not be taken into custody, held, or tried as adults, and that their rights to legal counsel, due process, and fair and speedy trials be upheld. We ask that a law be enacted that guarantees juvenile justice, that safeguards the rights of juveniles in conflict with law, and neglected and destitute juveniles. We note that young people in general, particularly girls and young women, must be guaranteed an environment free of sexual harassment and violence. We note that young people need to be guaranteed freedom from forms of harassment that undermine their right to education. Impediment to livelihood of adults creates economic insecurity that impacts youth. Family livelihood insecurity compels youth to earn income rather than foreground education and development. Proximity to systemic violence produces severe emotional trauma that manifests as depression, suicidal behaviours, self-medication through drugs, as well as retreat and isolation as coping strategies. There are inadequate provisions to address these issues and respond to these needs. We urge recognition of this reality and the allocation of resources to address these issues. 10. Access to Justice: We ask that all persons seeking to access institutions of law and justice be treated with respect and non-violence by law enforcement agencies. We note that, in countless instances, complaints are disregarded by the police, false first information reports (FIRs) filed, and people's request to file FIRS are met with disrespect, even force. 11. Landmines: We note that the placement of landmines along the border and other sensitive areas in Jammu and Kashmir continues to endanger lives, including those of children. While the Government of India is not a signatory to the Convention on the Prohibition of the Use, Stockpiling, Production and Transfer of Anti-Personnel Mines and on their Destruction, and has continued to justify landmine use in Jammu and Kashmir, we ask that the Government of Jammu and Kashmir institute a comprehensive ban on the use of landmines. We ask that an audit be conducted to ascertain the impact of landmines on local communities, to determine the extent of casualties, devastation, and displacement, and undertake rehabilitation of those affected and de-mining. 12. Transparency: We urge that the Government of Jammu and Kashmir ensure that international organizations and institutions, that have access to other places, are allowed to visit Jammu and Kashmir. We note that the ability of international institutions to work with local civil society institutions in Jammu and Kashmir is crucial to interrupting isolation and producing accountability. We ask that thousands of families who have been denied passports, including human rights defenders and journalists, be provided the same. We ask that, prior to contractual agreements and implementation, all development projects be assessed for their human rights implications. 13. Laws and States of Exception: We note your commitment to the revocation and withdrawal of security related legislation that has been in contravention of international humanitarian laws and norms, such as the Armed Forces Special Powers Act, 1958, (AFSPA), enacted in Jammu and Kashmir in 1990, the Disturbed Areas Act, 1976, enacted in Jammu and Kashmir in 1992, and the Jammu and Kashmir Public Safety Act of 1978. We reiterate the urgent need for the revocation of the Armed Forces Special Powers Act, 1958, the Disturbed Areas Act, 1976, the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act, 1967, and the Jammu and Kashmir Public Safety Act of 1978. We also note that continued criminal proceedings using the Prevention of Terrorism Act, 2002, and the Terrorist and Disruptive Activities (Prevention) Act, 1985, 1987, must be stopped. While the safety and security of citizens must remain of paramount concern, we ask that you remain vigilant to the problematic parameters and consequences of certain national security laws used to proscribe political dissent and deny freedom of expression, freedom of speech, and freedom of assembly, and deny the democratic right to peaceful mobilization and dissent. We note that certain national security laws, in the name of retributive justice, have been/may be used to perpetrate state violence, subvert due process of law, undermine civil liberties, and freedom of the press, eroding rule of law, permitting torture and sexualized violence on those in state custody, criminalizing innocent persons, and, in effect, undermining the safety and security of citizens. 14. Commissions of Inquiry: We ask that the reports and/or findings of various Commissions of Inquiry that have been instituted to inquire into instances of gross violations of human rights, law, and social justice be made public and that these commissions be ordered to complete their charge. Further, from available information, we register our concern that between 2000-2007 only three statutory inquiries have been commissioned and that other inquiries instituted have been magisterial and administrative probes. We ask that, based on ethical assessments of gross violations of human rights, law, and social justice, relevant statutory inquiries be ordered, as appropriate, to investigate these crimes. We ask that various agencies, including military and paramilitary institutions, be required to cooperate with instituted commissions in order that they may carry out their investigations. We ask that the recommendations of the commissions be enacted. 15. Minorities: We note that peace and reconciliation requires commitment to minority rights and issues, and the ethical and transparent resolution of injustices. We ask that an audit be conducted to ascertain the status of minorities in Kashmir, and related to the displacement, dislocation, and rehabilitation of minorities in Jammu and Kashmir, to propose mechanisms for reparation and reconciliation. 16. Truth and Reconciliation Commission: We note your public commitment to instituting a 'Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC)'. We are hopeful that you will appreciate that such a process must facilitate the implementation of justice as a precondition to reconciliation. We further note that the viability and success of a TRC is only possible in a context where demilitarization has taken place, enabling a social context in which the will and freedom of the people of Kashmir can be exercised. 17. In conclusion, we write you today mindful of how the conditions for peace and prosperity are linked to the possibility and necessity of justice in Kashmir. We understand the work of the International People's Tribunal for Human Rights and Justice in Kashmir as enabling the work of justice. Toward that, we hope and expect that the Tribunal will continue to undertake its work in conditions that are not impeded. Yours Sincerely, Angana Chatterji, Parvez Imroz, Gautam Navlakha, Zahir-Ud-Din, Mihir Desai, Khurram Parvez Contact: Khurram Parvez E-mail: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org T: +91-194-2482820 M: +91-9419013553 From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 17 18:48:26 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 05:18:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "Pakistan in Peril" By William Dalrymple Message-ID: <26718.5666.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com>   A Book Review with the title "Pakistan in Peril", written by William Dalrymple,  was published in "The New York Review of Books"  . It can be accessed at http://www.nybooks.com/articles/22274   The book reviewed : "Descent into Chaos: The United States and the Failure of Nation Building in Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Central Asia" by Ahmed Rashid   Kshmendra     EXTRACTS from "Pakistan in Peril"   - In less than eight months, Asif Ali Zardari's new government has effectively lost control of much of the North-West Frontier Province (NWFP) to the Taliban's Pakistani counterparts .... Few had very high expectations of Zardari, the notoriously corrupt playboy widower of Benazir Bhutto. Nevertheless, the speed of the collapse that has taken place under his watch has amazed almost all observers. aj_server = 'http://rotator.adjuggler.com/servlet/ajrotator/'; aj_tagver = '1.0'; aj_zone = 'nyrb'; aj_adspot = '147551'; aj_page = '0'; aj_dim ='147520'; aj_ch = ''; aj_ct = ''; aj_kw = ''; aj_pv = true; aj_click = '';   - Across much of the North-West Frontier Province—around a fifth of Pakistan—women have now been forced to wear the burqa, music has been silenced, barbershops are forbidden to shave beards, and over 140 girls' schools have been blown up or burned down.   - In the provincial capital of Peshawar, a significant proportion of the city's elite, along with its musicians, have now decamped to the relatively safe and tolerant confines of Lahore and Karachi.   - Meanwhile tens of thousands of ordinary people from the surrounding hills of the semiautonomous tribal belt—the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) that run along the Afghan border—have fled from the conflict zones blasted by missiles from unmanned American Predator drones and strafed by Pakistani helicopter gunships to the tent camps now ringing Peshawar.   - The tribal areas have never been fully under the control of any Pakistani government, and have always been unruly, but they have now been radicalized as never before. The rain of armaments from US drones and Pakistani ground forces, which have caused extensive civilian casualties, daily add a steady stream of angry footsoldiers to the insurgency. Elsewhere in Pakistan, anti-Western religious and political extremism continues to flourish.   - The most alarming manifestation of this was the ease with which a highly trained jihadi group, almost certainly supplied and provisioned in Pakistan, probably by the nominally banned Lashkar-e-Taiba—an organization that aims to restore Muslim rule in Kashmir—attacked neighboring India in November. They murdered 173 innocent people in Bombay, injured over six hundred, and brought the two nuclear-armed rivals once again to the brink of war. The attackers arrived by sea, initially using boats based in the same network of fishing villages across the Makran coast through which a number of al-Qaeda suspects are known to have been spirited away from Pakistan to the Arab Gulf following the American assault on Tora Bora in 2001.   - The election seemed to mark a moment of hope for Pakistani secular democracy; but that hope was soon shattered by the apparently unstoppable advance of the Pakistani Taliban out of FATA.   - Far from the frontier, in Pakistan's artistic capital of Lahore, at the heart of the prosperous Punjab, the usually resilient members of the liberal elite were more depressed than I have ever seen them, alarmed both by the news of the Taliban's advances and by the economic difficulties that have recently led Pakistan to seek a $7.6 billion IMF loan.   - The night I arrived I went to see Najam Sethi and his wife Jugnu, editors of the English language Daily Times and Friday Times newspapers, who now found themselves directly in the Taliban's crosshairs. Three weeks earlier they had begun to receive faxes threatening them with violence if they didn't stop attacking Islamist interests in their columns. One such fax had arrived that morning. The two have bravely survived years of harassment by various governments and agencies, but now felt powerless to respond to these anonymous threats.   - Another old friend in Lahore, the remarkable human rights campaigner Asma Jahangir, had also received fax warnings—in her case to desist helping the victims of honor killings. Asma, who had bravely fought successive military governments, was at a loss about what to do: "Nobody is safe anymore," she told me. "If you are threatened by the government you can take them on legally. But with nonstate actors, when even members of the government are themselves not safe, who do you appeal to? Where do you look for protection?"   - .... Ahmed Rashid's ....brilliant and passionate book Descent into Chaos. Throughout the book Rashid emphasizes the degree to which, seven years after September 11, "the US-led war on terrorism has left in its wake a far more unstable world than existed on that momentous day in 2001"   - Eight years of neocon foreign policies have been a spectacular disaster for American interests in the Islamic world, leading to the rise of Iran as a major regional power, the advance of Hamas and Hezbollah, the wreckage of Iraq, with over two million external refugees and the ethnic cleansing of its Christian population, and now the implosion of Afghanistan and Pakistan, probably the most dangerous development of all.   -  An urbane, witty, bookish, Cambridge-educated bon viveur, with a Spanish Galician wife, he is a writer whose high spirits can easily make one forget both the immense bravery of his consistently fearless reporting in such a dangerous environment over thirty years—Rashid was recently sentenced to death in absentia by the Pakistan Taliban—and the deep scholarship and research that give his work its depth.   - Rashid, .... came to world attention after the Islamist attacks on America when his book Taliban1 was recognized to be virtually the only serious work on the regime that had given shelter to al-Qaeda. As a result it quickly sold nearly 1.5 million copies in twenty-six languages across the world.   - In his new book, Rashid is particularly perceptive in his examination of the causes of terrorism in the region, and the way that the Bush administration sought to silence real scrutiny of what was actually causing so many people in South and Central Asia violently to resist American influence. Serious analysis was swept under the carpet, making impossible """" any discussion or understanding of the "root causes" of terrorism—the growing poverty, repression, and sense of injustice that many Muslims felt at the hands of their US-backed governments, which in turn boosted anti-Americanism and Islamic extremism.... Bush did more to keep Americans blind to world affairs than any American leader in recent history.""""   - Instead, terrorism was presented by the administration as a result of a "sudden worldwide anti-Americanism rather than a result of past American policy failures." Bush's speech to Congress, claiming that the world hated America because "they hate our freedoms—our freedom of religion, our freedom of speech, our freedom to vote," ignored the political elephant standing in the middle of the living room—US foreign policy, especially in the Middle East, with its long history of unpopular interventions in the Islamic world and its uncritical support for Israel's steady colonization of the West Bank and violent repression of the Palestinians. As the Department of Defense Science Board rightly pointed out in response to Bush's speech: "Muslims do not 'hate our freedom,' but rather they hate our policies."   - comprehensive pattern of human rights abuses that the administration presided over—the torture and "rendition" program—that Rashid describes here with shocking and uncompromising clarity. As well as the damage this did to the image of the US abroad, it also encouraged repression among its regional allies: "By following America's lead in promoting or condoning disappearances, torture, and secret jails, these countries found their path to democracy and their struggle against Islamic extremism set back by decades," Rashid writes.   - But while laying part of the blame for the current disaster on the "arrogance and ignorance" of the American administration, Rashid is also well aware of the large share of responsibility that must be put at the door of Pakistan's army and its Inter-Services Intelligence Agency, or ISI. For more than twenty years, the ISI has, for its own purposes, deliberately and consistently funded and incubated a variety of Islamist groups, including in particular Jaish-e-Mohammed and Lashkar-e-Taiba. Since the days of the anti-Soviet Mujahideen, the Pakistani army saw the jihadis as an ingenious and cost-effective means of both dominating Afghanistan—something they finally achieved with the retreat of the Soviets in 1987—and bogging down the Indian army in Kashmir—something they succeeded in achieving from 1990 onward.   - As Hamid Gul, the director of the ISI who was largely responsible for developing this strategy, once explained to me, if the ISI "encourages the Kashmiris it's understandable." He said, "The Kashmiri people have risen up in accordance with the UN charter, and it is the national purpose of Pakistan to help liberate them. If the jihadis go out and contain India, tying down their army on their own soil, for a legitimate cause, why should we not support them?"   - For Gul the usefulness of the jihadis was self-evident, and in this view he had plenty of company. As Steve Coll put it in Ghost Wars : """"" Every Pakistani general, liberal or religious, believed in the jihadists by 1999, not from personal Islamic conviction, in most cases, but because the jihadists had proved themselves over many years as the one force able to frighten, flummox, and bog down the Hindu-dominated Indian army. About a dozen Indian divisions had been tied up in Kashmir during the late 1990s to suppress a few thousand well-trained, paradise-seeking guerrillas. What more could Pakistan ask?""""   - It is for this reason that many in the army still believe that the jihadis make up a more practical defense against Indian dominance than even nuclear weapons. For them, supporting a range of jihadi groups in Afghanistan and Kashmir is not an ideological or religious whim so much as a practical and patriotic imperative—a vital survival strategy for a Pakistani state that they perceive to be threatened by India's ever-growing power and its alliance with the hostile Karzai regime in Kabul.   - The army's senior military brass were convinced until recently that they could control the militants whom they had fostered. In a taped conversation between then General Pervez Musharraf and Muhammad Aziz Khan, his chief of general staff, which India released in 1999, Aziz said that the army had the jihadis by their " tooti " (their privates). Yet while some in the ISI may still believe that they can use jihadis for their own ends, the Islamists have increasingly followed their own agendas, sending suicide bombers to attack not just members of Pakistan's religious minorities and political leaders, but even the ISI headquarters at Camp Hamza itself, in apparent revenge for the army's declared support for America's war on terror and attacks made by the Pakistani military on Taliban strongholds in FATA. Ironically, as Rashid makes clear, it was exactly groups such as Lashkar-e-Taiba, which were originally created by the ISI, that have now turned their guns on their creators, as well as brazenly launching well-equipped and well-trained teams of jihadis into Indian territory. In doing so they are severely damaging Pakistani interests abroad, and bringing Pakistan to the brink of a war it cannot possibly win.   - It was the military dictator General Zia ul-Haq, between 1978 and 1988, who was responsible for initiating the fatal alliance between the conservative Pakistani military and the equally reactionary mullahs that led to the use of Pakistan's Islamic radicals in the anti-Soviet jihad in Afghanistan. Their recruitment was always controlled by the ISI, but was originally jointly funded by the CIA and Saudi intelligence. Militant mosques such as the Lal Masjid near the ISI headquarters in the center of Islamabad were turned into recruiting centers for potential Mujahideen, and places where the intelligence services could be in touch with young radicals.   - Rashid's book ....breaks entirely new ground in making explicit, in strikingly well-researched detail, the degree to which the army and ISI continued this duplicitous and risky policy of supporting radical Islamic groups after September 11, 2001, despite President Musharraf's many public promises to the contrary. The speed with which the US lost interest in Afghanistan after its successful invasion and embarked on plans to invade Iraq, which clearly had no link with al-Qaeda, convinced Pakistan's military leaders that the US was not serious about a long-term commitment to Karzai's regime. This in turn led to them keeping the Taliban in reserve to be used to reinstall a pro-Pakistani regime in Afghanistan once the Americans' attention had been turned elsewhere and the Karzai regime had been left to crumble.   - So it was, only months after Septem-ber 11, that the ISI was giving refuge to the entire Taliban leadership after it fled from Afghanistan. Mullah Omar was kept in an ISI safehouse in the town of Quetta, just south of the tribal areas in Baluchistan, near the Afghan border, while his militia was lodged in Pashtunabad, a sprawling Quetta suburb. Gulbuddin Hikmetyar, the leader of the radical Mujahideen militia Hizb-e- Islami, was lured back from exile in Iran and allowed to operate freely outside Peshawar, while Jalaluddin Haqqani, one of the most violent Taliban commanders, was given sanctuary by the ISI in north Waziristan, a part of FATA.   - In order to keep contact with such groups beyond the radar of Western intelligence, the ISI created a new clandestine organization, staffed by former ISI trainers and retired Pashtun officers from the army, who armed, trained, and supported the Taliban in camps around Quetta. In view of the high level of military training of the Lashkar jihadis who attacked Bombay, it may well be that some similar arrangement involving former ISI officers was used to prepare the Bombay terrorists for their mission too.   - By 2004, the US had filmed Pakistani army trucks delivering Taliban fighters to the Afghan border and taking them back a few days later, while wireless monitoring at the US base at Bagram picked up Taliban commanders arranging with Pakistani army officers at the border for safe passage as they came in and out of Afghanistan. By 2005 the Taliban, with covert Pakistani support, was launching a full-scale assault on NATO troops in Afghanistan. As Rashid notes in his conclusion:   "Today, seven years after 9/11, Mullah Omar and the original Afghan Taliban Shura still live in Baluchistan province. Afghan and Pakistani Taliban leaders live on further north, in FATA, as do the militias of Jalaluddin Haqqani and Gulbuddin Hikmetyar. Al Qaeda has a safe haven in FATA, and along with them reside a plethora of Asian and Arab terrorist groups who are now expanding their reach into Europe and the United States."   - The foot-dragging response of Zardari to the attacks on Bombay last November shows the degree to which the two-faced dual-track policy of courting both the US and the various jihadi groups remains effectively in place with the Pakistani military......... Saeed continues openly to incite attacks on India and Western targets. The speeches quoted by Rashid show how easily such attacks could have been anticipated, and how they should have been stopped: "The powerful Western world is terrorizing Muslims," Saeed told an Islamabad conference in 2003. "We are being invaded, humiliated, manipulated and looted.... We must fight against the evil trio, America, Israel and India. Suicide missions are in accordance with Islam. In fact a suicide attack is the best form of jihad."   - Even now, after the mass murder in Bombay, although Saeed is himself now under house arrest for masterminding the attacks (an accusation that he denies), his organization's madrasas and facilities remain open and appear to benefit from patronage offered by Pakistan's authorities. Only this year the Zardari government cleared the purchase of a bulletproof Land Cruiser for him. Zardari does indeed seem to be in what the Indian foreign minister, Pranab Mukherjee, calls "a state of denial" about the involvement of Pakistani jihadi groups in the Bombay massacres.   -  Army insiders say that General Ashfaq Kiyani, the current chief of staff, who is already involved in a full-scale conflict with the Pakistani Taliban in the frontier tribal areas, does not feel sufficiently strong to open a second front with the jihadis in the Punjab; while Zardari, even though he may wish to be rid of Lashkar and the Punjabi jihadis, cannot afford to be seen to cave in to Indian pressure. It is a classic South Asian catch-22, which allows Lashkar to continue functioning with only cosmetic restrictions, whose main function is to impress the US. Yet the fact remains that until firm action is taken against all such groups, and training camps are closed down, the slow collapse of the Pakistani state will continue, and with it the safety of Western interests in the region.   - The top Pakistani army officers must end their obsession with bleeding India by using an Islamist strategic doctrine entailing support of jihadists, and realize that such a policy is deeply damaging to Pakistan itself, threatening to turn Pakistan into a clone of Taliban-dominated Afghanistan rather than a potential partner of a future Indian superpower.   - ...... somehow finding a way to stop the madrasa- inspired and Saudi-financed advance of Wahhabi Islam, which is directly linked to the spread of anti-Western radicalization. On my last visit to Pakistan, it was very clear that while the Wahhabi-dominated North-West was on the verge of falling under the sway of the Taliban, the same was not true of the Sufi-dominated province of Sindh, which currently is quieter and safer than it has been for some time. Here in southern Pakistan, on the Indian border, Sufi Islam continues to act as a powerful defense against the puritanical fundamentalist Islam of the Wahhabi mullahs, which supports intolerance of all other faiths.   - Visiting the popular Sufi shrine of Sehwan in Sindh last month, I was astonished by the strength of feeling expressed against the mullahs by the Sindhis who look to their great saints such a Lal Shabaz Qalander for guidance, and hate the Wahhabis who criticize the popular Islam of the Sufi saints as a form of shirk, or heresy: "All these mullahs should be damned," said one old Sufi I talked to in the shrine. "They read their books but they never understand the true message of love that the prophet preached. Men so blind as them cannot even see the shining sun."   - The Saudis have invested intensively in Wahhabi madrasas in the North-West Frontier Province and Punjab, with dramatic effect, radically changing the religious culture of an entire region. The tolerant Sufi culture of Sindh has been able to defy this imported Wahhabi radicalism. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 17 19:11:35 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 05:41:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "Why the US bugged Pakistan Army generals" By Rauf Klasra Message-ID: <952842.35414.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com>   "Why the US bugged Pakistan Army generals" Monday, February 16, 2009 (Book claims drone attacks began after ISI-Taliban coordination confirmed) By Rauf Klasra ISLAMABAD: A new book by a New York Times journalist has levelled serious allegations against Pakistan and its Army claiming the telephones of all senior officers, including the COAS General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani were bugged by Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and National Security Agency (NSA), the main eavesdropping US agencies around the world. The book written by David E Sanger, which has hit the stands a few days back, claims that the American intelligence agencies were intercepting telephonic conversations of Army officers and the decision to attack Pakistan through drones was taken after one such high level conversation was intercepted claiming the Taliban as a “strategic asset” for Pakistan. The book, titled “The Inheritance: The World Obama Confronts and the challenges to American power” claims the decision to invade Pakistani territories was taken after the CIA reached a conclusion that the ISI was absolutely in complete coordination with the Taliban. The NSA intercepted messages indicating that ISI officers were helping the Taliban in planning a big bombing attack in Afghanistan although the target was unclear. After some days, the Kandahar Jail was attacked by the Taliban and hundreds of Taliban were freed, it says. General Kayani would be the second army chief of Pakistan whose conversations have been bugged by the Americans, if the allegations in the book are true. Earlier the FBI had intercepted the telephone conversation between President Musharraf and Benazir Bhutto when Musharraf had threatened her that her safety within Pakistan depended upon her nature of relationship with him (Musharraf). The Indians had also recorded a telephone conversation between General Musharraf and General Aziz when Musharraf was in Beijing during the Kargil war days. The author who seemed to have been given direct access to the secret record of several meetings held at the White House before George Bush left the presidency on January 20, has made several revelations in his book. The book has also disclosed that NSA was already picking up interceptions, as the units of Pakistan army were getting ready to hit a school in the tribal areas. Someone was giving advance warning of what was coming. The book said they must have dialed 1-800-HAQQANI, said one person who was familiar with the intercepted conversation. According to another para, the account of the warning sent to the school was almost comical. “It was something like that “Hey, we are going to hit your place in a few days, so if anyone important is there, you might want to tell them to scream”. The book also establishes that the Americans were in full knowledge of the facts on the ground and they started attacking territories inside Pakistan as they thought the Pakistan army and intelligence agencies were no more interested in fighting the Taliban. In chapter 8 of the book on Pakistan “Crossing the Line”, the author has also revealed that how an angry two star army officer of Pakistan army had actually unfolded the whole secret plan of Pakistan army deliberately before a US spy master McConell. The book said, the US intelligence agencies knew very well that Musharraf was playing a double game with them as on the one hand he was assuring the Americans that only he could fight against the Taliban and on the other, he was backing the militancy and the militants. “Musharraf’s record of duplicity was well known. The author has written this chapter on Pakistan on basis of some secret trips of America’s twwo top spy chiefs-McConnel an Haden-nicknamed as “two Mikes” who had held several meetings with the top military army officers including General Pervez Musharraf. The author records that in late May 2008, McConnel made a secret trip to Pakistan, his fourth or fifth since becoming the director of national intelligence, trips that seemed to blur together in his head. But this one was dramatically different from the rest- and ended up driving the push in the last days of the Bush administration to greatly step up covert action across the border into Pakistan. The book says, packing quickly through his usual rounds of meetings with Musharraf and a raft of intelligence officials in Islamabad, McConnel and his small entourage found themselves in a conference room with several military officers, including a two star Pakistan general. No officer was talking to other participants in the meeting as if the American intelligence chief, the visiting dignitary for the day, wasn’t in the room. Not surprisingly, he was being pressed about Pakistan strategy in the tribal areas, and he was “reluctant to start” one of the participants in the conversation recalled. “But once he got into it, he could not contain himself”. The two-star general began making the case that the real problem was the tribal areas and in Afghanistan was not al-Qaeda or the Taliban, or even the militants who were trying to topple the Pakistani government. The real problem was Pakistan’s rival of more than sixty years which he said was secretly manipulating events in an effort to crush Pakistan and undo the 1947 partition that sought to separate the Islamic and Hindu states. “The overwhelming enemy is India”, the Pakistani officer told the General. “We have to watch them at every moment. We have had wars with India, he said as everyone in the room needed reminding.” The Pakistani two-star general described President Karzai’s cozy relationship with India, seeking investment and aid. With alarm, he talked about how the Indians were opening consulates around the country and building roads. What the rest of the world saw as a desperately needed nation-building programme, Pakistan saw as a threat. He was not alone in that view, conspiracy theories about Indian activities in Afghanistan are a daily staple in the Pakistani media. As the officer talked, he became more and more animated. The Indians will surround us and annihilate us, he said, knowing McConnel was hearing every word. “And the Indians in their surrounding strategy, have gone to Afghanistan.” Those newly built roads were future invasion routes, he seemed to suggest, without quite saying so. The consulates were dens of Indian spies. The real purpose of the humanitarian aid to Afghanistan was to run “operations out of Afghanistan to target Pakistan”. The conspiracy theory deepened. “In the long run, America will not have the stomach to bear the burden of staying in Afghanistan,” the officer continued, still seeming to ignore the presence of the American intelligence chief. “And when the Americans pull out, India will reign. Therefore, the Pakistanis will have to sustain the contacts with the opposition to the Afghanistan government meaning the Taliban so when the Americans pull out, it’s a friendly government to Pakistan. “Therefore,” the officer concluded with a flourish, “we must support the Taliban”, two-star general announced in the meeting in the presence of US spymaster. The last statement of the two star general stunned McConnel. For six years, the Americans had paid upward $10 billion to the Pakistan army to support its operations against al-Qaeda and the Taliban. Bush and his aides knew — though they never admitted that much of the money had been diverted to buying equipment for the Pakistan military to bulk up against the Indian. Now a Pakistani officer in his fury and frustration, was openly admitting that the Pakistani government had officially denied that it was playing both sides of the war—-the Americans side and Taliban side. In return for the Americans billions, Pakistani forces or intelligence agencies operatives occasionally picked off a few al-Qaeda leaders (though even that had slowed to a trickle). But they were actively supporting the Taliban and even some militants in the tribal region. It was almost as if the American taxpayers were making monthly deposits in the Taliban bank accounts. Some in the Pentagon objected but were overruled. None of this was really a surprise-except to the American people who were regularly told by President Bush that Pakistan and its leadership were a strong ally against terror. Even some of the Bush aides cringed when he uttered those words “it was like hearing him say, victory in Iraq”, one told me after leaving the muddled complexity of it all was some kind of admission of defeat. Even some inside the While House, admitted to me (author) that “reimbursements” to the Pakistani military were just this side of fraud. They had been paid out when Musharraf had announced he was pulling back from tribal areas because of a “truce” with the tribal leaders. When Congress threatened to link the reimbursement to the Pakistan military performance, one American general summarized this reaction this way: “It’s about goddamn time”. Bush knew the truth. Intelligence reports written over the past five years have all documented the ISI support for Taliban-something Bush had admitted to me (author) and other reporters. He knew of course that even Musharraf had little interest in sending his army into tribal areas. Every military professional who returned from Islamabad came back with the same report. Seven years after 9/11, 80 per cent of Pakistan military was arrayed against India. McConnel himself returning from one of his trips noted that there is only one army that has more artillery tubes per unit, everything from old cannons to rocket launchers and mortars. It’s North Koreas’, he said. It was a telling statistic. Artillery tubes weigh tonnes and are useful only in holding back Indian hordes as they come across the plains. They are useless against terrorists enclaves. Overhearing the two-star’s rant about India was not the only rude surprise McConnel experienced on this trip. He had brought with him the chart he used in the White House situation room tracking the number of attacks inside Pakistan over the past two and a half years. One of the charts showed that about 13,000 Pakistanis had been killed in 2007 chiefly by suicide bombers, about double the numbers in 2006. He told Musharraf and General Kayani, the former DG ISI, that the casualty numbers on the track to double again in 2008. Then he described the interviews that Osama Bin laden and his deputies had given, declaring their intention to topple the Pakistan government. “You are aware of these casualty numbers and what Osama said of course”, McConnel asked. He got blank stares. They told him they had heard about Bin Laden statements. “It was news”, McConnel reported to his colleagues later. “I talked to the highest level of the Pakistani government and it was news. They just were not tracking it”. It astounded him that the officials in Washington and at the American embassy in Islamabad might be keeping more careful tabs on the rising number of attacks than were Musahrraf or Pakistani crop of democratically elected leaders. Were they ignoring the obvious or were they just denying they knew about it, part of the deception within the deceptions as they supported both sides in the terror fight. When McConnel returned to Washington in late 2008, he ordered up a full assessment so that he could match what he had heard from the single angry officer with the intelligence that had poured in over the years. His question was a basic one. Is there what McConnel called an officially sanctioned “dual policy” in Pakistan?” That was a polite way of asking whether the leadership of the country including Musahrraf had been playing both sides of the war all along. It did not take long for McConnel’s staff to produce the answer. McConnel took the formal assessment to the White House, concluding that the Pakistani government regularly gave the Taliban and some of the militant groups “weapons and supporters to go into Afghanistan to attack Afghan and coalition forces”. This was not news to many in the administration but McConnel wanted to have it down on paper. The assessment was circulated to the entire national security leadership and to Bush who was still giving public speeches praising Musharraf as a great ally. “It was news to him,” said one of the officials who briefed Bush and watched his reaction to McConnel’s assessment. “And he always says the same thing, so what do you do about it? By the summer, Bush answered his own question. For the first time in a presidency filled with secret unilateral actions, he authorized the American military to invade an ally-Pakistan. Editor’s Note: The ISPR has been requested for a detailed response and whenever available it would be given equal and similar space.   http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=20356 From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 17 19:42:56 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 06:12:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Gujarati origins of Valentine's Day In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <978867.54613.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Javed   Not authored by you so both accusations (of racism and of pathetic sense of humour) are withdrawn. Mazaa kharaab karr diya (you spoilt the fun). I had accused you in fun. Kiddish retort to kiddish humour.   Such generalisations are not uncommon and as far as generalisations go, can often be apt.   Here is a generalisation from me:   """"  It is a well known fact that men continually mistreat and disrespect their wives """"""   I was tempted to add 'specially Indian men' but then I might get pilloried although I do hold that as being factual as far as generalisations go.   Kshmendra --- On Sun, 2/15/09, M Javed wrote: From: M Javed Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Gujarati origins of Valentine's Day To: "Kshmendra Kaul" Cc: "sarai-list" Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 6:04 PM Dear Kshmendra So, you have caught me red-handed. I apologize for any unintended hurt my forwarded message may have caused to the Gujarati men or women. My only evidence for the "well-known fact" is that this message came to me forwarded from at least 3 sources (so its already doing the rounds) - I wish I had included the original list of email addresses attached from previous forwards, so that you could accuse many more people of this misconduct. Let me know what my punishment would be for a pathetic sense of humour. I am sure this humour is still less traumatic than what those dating couples went through who were forced to tie rakhi and so on on valentine day. Javed On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Javed > > You are hereby accused of 'misconduct' under the List's 'Rules of Conduct' > because of your racist remark: > > """""" It is a well known fact that Gujarati men, specially the Patels, > continually mistreat and disrespect their wives (Patelianis) """""" > > You might like to evidence this claim of 'well known fact' and 'continually > mistreat and disrespect'. > > You are also accused of posessing a pathetic sense of humour. > > Kshmendra > > > ________________________________ > From: M Javed > To: sarai-list > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 9:13:41 AM > Subject: [Reader-list] Gujarati origins of Valentine's Day > > In spite of what you have been told by everyone, > the truth is that Valentine's Day originated hundreds of years > ago, in India, and to top it all, in Gujarat !! > > It is a well known fact that Gujarati men, specially the Patels, > continually mistreat and disrespect their wives (Patelianis). One fine > day, it happened to be the 14th day of February, one brave Pateliani, > having had enough "torture" by her husband, finally chose to rebel > by beating him up with a Velan (rolling pin), also called belan. > > Yes....the same Velan which she used daily, to make chapattis for > him....only this time, instead of the dough, it was the husband who was > flattened. > > This was a momentous occasion for all Gujarati women and a revolt soon > spread, like wild fire, with thousands of housewives beating up their > husbands with the Velan. > > There was an outburst of moaning "chapatti-ed" husbands all over > Anand and Amdavad. The Patel men-folk quickly learnt their lesson and > started to > behave more respectfully with their Patelianis. > > Thereafter, on 14th February, every year, the womenfolk of Gujarat would > beat up their husbands, to commemorate that eventful day. The wives having > the satisfaction of beating up their husbands with the Velan and the men > having the supreme joy of submitting to the will of the women they loved. > Soon the Gujju men realised that in order to avoid this ordeal they need > to present gifts to their wives....they brought flowers and sweetmeats. > Hence the tradition began. > > As Gujarat fell under the influence of Western culture, that day was > called 'Velan time' day. > > The ritual soon spread to Britain and many other Western countries, > specifically, the catch words 'Velan time!'. Of course in their > foreign tongues, it was first anglicized to 'Velantime' and then to > 'Valentine'. And thereafter, 14th of February, came to be known as > Valentine's Day! > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 17 20:08:45 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 06:38:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0902140542o33ece9a8l31b4ff66c857c37a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <790605.69661.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Yasir   1. We differ in our judgement/evaluation of which 'source-spring' is guilty for the Islamic Terrorism    2. When I wrote about 'the rape of Kashmir and Kashmiris by Pakistan and Pakistanis' I did not mean Kashmiri Pandits alone but all Kashmiris.   After suffering the initial brunt of displacement prompted by Islamic Terrorism (disguised here and there as a 'freedom movement'), the Indian Government is to be blamed for not making any efforts to stem the subsequent steady but sure erasure of the Kashmiri Pandit as a unique socio-cultural-religious ethnic set identity.   But, it is all Kashmiris I wail for.   Aleem wrote (my context being what is happening to Pakistan and Pakistanis):   MaiN rotaa hooN aur aasmaaN say taaray toot'tay dekhta hooN Unn logoN pay, jinn logoN nay, meray logoN ko aa'zaar diya   (I weep and wail and I watch, the stars fall from the skies  On the people, the very people, who brought so much hurt, to my people)   Kshmendra   PS. Excuse the poor translation  --- On Sat, 2/14/09, yasir ~يا سر wrote: From: yasir ~يا سر Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear To: "Kshmendra Kaul" Cc: "sarai list" Date: Saturday, February 14, 2009, 7:12 PM see below.best. On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Yasir > > 1. If the Terror Acts are in the name of Islam and Surah and Ayah are quoted > from the Quran to justify the acts then it is "Islamic Terrorism". > > I have referred only to the Quran and not any Hadeeth or Rivayaat. For such > purposes I am a Parvaizi. It is best to judge the quality of the water at > the source-spring rather than in the streamlets that the water thereafter > flows into and might have picked up muck in it's journey. > i think you are mis-identifying the source spring. The region has a turbuklent history from before islam - geography and culture being significant in their continuity over time. My pov flow from a cultural understanding from inside pakistan. you are welcome to have your own. > 2. You continue to be in 'denial' about the rape of Kashmir and Kashmiris by > Pakistan and Pakistanis as having been initiated from 1947 onwards. far from it. While i am sympathetic to whats happened to kashmiri pandits or armenians in western turkey, why should i be in denial to the 500,000 soldiers who have had to deal with lack of plebescite in kashmir. the wound has been allowed to fester. how can only pakistan be to blame for that. As for rapes, you know better how the national Indian army has behaved in kashmir as well as manipur etc, not to mention the pk army in east pakistan and now fata. i think it is you, my friend who has a single angled view, even though a it is better complexified than others. best wishes yasir > Kshmendra > > ________________________________ > From: yasir ~يا سر > To: sarai list > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 4:53:40 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear > > I seriously doubt it is ''islamic''. it is simply political and a political > fringe, related to other events iin the region, primarily the 80's are > unthinkable in afghanistan pakistan and kashmir without the US and Soviet > games in afghanistan. it is not possible to separate them. does that make > any solution unfeasible and defeated from the beginning once again. > > best > > > > On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 1:59 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: > > >> >> As far as 'sandwiched' or 'bun kabaabed' Afghanistan, Pakistan and India >> are concerned, the only thing stringing them together is Islamic >> Terrorism. >> >> Kshmendra >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* yasir ~يا سر >> *To:* sarai list >> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 11, 2009 5:42:26 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear >> >> thats a half callous statement if there is no mention of the nature of >> the indian army's presence in kashmir, like the pk army's actions such >> as aerial bombings in fata. and of course afghanistan pakistan and >> india are strung together in a sandwich, a south asian a bun kebab. >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Kshmendra Kaul >> wrote: >> > What Pakistan and Pakistanis and their supporters in Kashmir did to >> Kashmir, is now being done in Swat, Pakistan by it's own Pakistanis. >> > >> > Kshmendra >> > >> > >> > "Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear" >> > By Sher Baz Khan >> > Tuesday, 03 Feb, 2009 >> > >> > (MINGORA: The road to Swat used to be a byword for breathtaking beauty. >> Although it remains the most picturesque in the country, it now conjures >> up >> fear and lurking danger.) >> > The journey upwards from Mardan these days is forbidding. The entire >> route is a picture of utter desolation. Fear of the unknown has overtaken >> a >> place fabled for its fertile fields and majestic mountains. >> > Even a flying visit is enough to fill one with a sense of foreboding >> > that >> religious extremists would overrun the valley before long. >> > Most people, especially those living in urban areas, seem to have lost >> the will to live. >> > Things started taking an ugly turn in July 2007 after the then NWFP >> > chief >> minister Shamsul Mulk called in paramilitary forces to take on militants >> fired by Maulana Fazlullah's inflammatory rhetoric. >> > But the decision seems to have rebounded on the government, for now at >> least. The Maulana's followers hold sway over no less than 80 per cent of >> the Swat valley. >> > The Army is into the third phase of an operation that has seen the >> state's writ shrinking by the day. Of late the Taliban have made inroads >> into even settled areas, such as, Mardan, Takhtbai, Shergarh, and almost >> the >> entire Malakand Agency. >> > Taliban are spreading their message in the same way as they did, and >> still do, in Swat. The medium of the message is fear. In fact, fear is the >> message. >> > The moment I entered the region, I was struck by unmistakable signs of a >> place steadily turning its back on the outside world. Institution after >> institution is falling to the Taliban. >> > Non-combatants have a stark choice: seek refuge in other places or >> > accept >> the diktat of Maulana Fazlullah. >> > I managed to strike conversations with some Swatis, albeit after much >> persuasion. >> > Abdullah Khan, a draper, narrated the ordeal of his brother, Rauf Khan, >> especially his treatment by a Rawalpindi-based psychiatrist. >> > 'Rauf saw the beheading of a man in a butcher shop by militants. Since >> that day he either laughs loudly or sheds tears in silence,' Abdullah >> said. >> > A stroll through Mingora's main marketplace brought us face to face with >> misery. A number of people poured their hearts out to us. >> > 'The thunder of bombs, rockets, grenades and whatnot linger in our >> > ears.' >> > 'Go to the psychiatrists of Peshawar and Rawalpindi and ask them how >> > many >> children, men and women from Swat they are treating these days. I bet the >> number will baffle you,' said Ajmal Khan, a college student. >> > The locals alleged that the military operation had killed more >> non-combatants than militants. >> > The economic fallout of the conflict is ominous. Most of the 1,000 >> > hotels >> have gone out of business. The rent-a-car business is also dying out. >> > Shops dealing in CDs and operators of cable television have folded up >> after Maulana Fazlullah's warnings. >> > Barber shops have put up notices that they would not shave off beards as >> the Taliban have told them not to do so. >> > A glitzy plaza caught my eye with its elegant shops, but sadly there >> > were >> no shoppers. >> > 'Women are not allowed to enter the premises unless they are accompanied >> by men,' read a banner fluttering over the entrance to the mall. >> > A number of tailors said they had been told not to let women enter their >> shops. >> > 'The upper and middle classes are leaving the valley and settling down >> elsewhere,' said Aleem Jan, a tailor making women's suits. He is among >> many >> who are planning to move to either Mardan or Peshawar. >> > Advertisement hoardings carrying pictures of women are disallowed. >> > Faces of women in ads are blackened or deformed. >> > A building housing the court is empty of lawyers and litigants as >> > Taliban >> have decreed that the existing judicial order is un-Islamic. They have set >> up 73 sharia courts to administer 'speedy justice'. >> > These courts summon people on phone, threatening violators with death. >> > And speedy justice it is indeed. They settle cases within a couple of >> days. Hence they are getting popular. >> > 'A summon from the court of Fazlullah is like a death warrant. No one >> dare disobey it,' said Jamil Ahmed, a lawyer. >> > Although he favoured the existing judicial system, he was all praise for >> the sharia courts as they decide cases in no time. >> > Jamil cited the example of a woman whose plea for dissolution was >> > decided >> the other day by a local court. The matter was lingering for the past 22 >> years. >> > She had applied for dissolution of marriage at the age of 21 and now she >> is 43. >> > The president of the Swat Bar Association, Aftab Alam, is against a >> parallel judiciary. But he too said judges should try to dispose of cases >> in >> 'reasonable time' to undercut the Taliban courts. >> > Only two of the 14 policewomen who worked in the district court take the >> trouble to report for duty these days. But they wear veils and keep a low >> profile, mostly hiding themselves behind bushes. >> > Almost all the legislators belonging to the ruling Awami National Party >> have fled from Swat. The exception is Afzal Khan Lala. All of them are on >> the Taliban's hit list. >> > >> > >> > >> >> http://www.dawn.net/wps/wcm/connect/Dawn%20Content%20Library/dawn/news/pakistan/nwfp/tourist-heaven-turns-into-valley-of-fear-ha >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Wed Feb 18 01:44:19 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 20:14:19 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice..????.... In-Reply-To: <47e122a70902052234q27e02712hcd0a26bbb92f493a@mail.gmail.com> References: <47e122a70902020709g47d9fac6x4be284809c28f1fc@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70902052234q27e02712hcd0a26bbb92f493a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Inder, First thing first. Thanks for permitting me to have my own understanding of that touching installation /performance of yours 'I am neither here nor there'. That you share the sentiment about the tragic 'loss of our ground' is quite satisfying. It is sad that the tragedy of our forced displacement from our ‘roots’ has generally gone unnoticed. And I can not but agree about the theme 'disappearance of feminine'. I believe that a bit of 'femininity' in all men would have made this world a better place to live in. I think this whole notion of 'state nation' game is too exaggerated. It will be too idealistic to expect complete harmony over different issues between the nations. Every state will accord priority to its own interests. Even the European model that you have quoted has its own internal contradictions-the common language issue, dissolving of local currencies, sharing wealth & resources with the less privileged nations in the continent etc. Yet, what has been achieved is commendable-e.g. English language is not any more looked down upon in non English speaking countries etc. But the fact remains that the borders may have been 'dissolved' but no country has compromised on its territories or interests. And let us not forget what they together with US did to Tito's Yugoslavia. Turkey's entry in to EU continues to be procrastinated for whatever reason. By the way, you mentioned about 'Muslim Turkey' not allowing a SWAT like situation. You will agree, it is only due to the 'secular' credentials of the army there that the propensity to impose fundamentalism at political level remains under check. Let us hope & prey that the legendary Kamal Ata Turk's legacy will continue to prevail there. Ironically, it is the 'control' of the army that is regarded as one of the hitches coming in the way of Turkey's entry in to the EU. As for Pakistan, the importance of good neighbourly relations can not be undermined. But it is for Pakistan to assess that .The use of pan Islamism inspired terrorism as part of its continued belligerence against India is now beginning to take a heavy toll on Pakistan itself. Today SWAT has fallen, tomorrow it could be Peshawar & …………. See the role of civil society there too has been that of an adversary as for as India is concerned. Pan Islamic terrorism in Kashmir was always justified in the name of 'Azadi' – whose azadi….????.... of a few disgruntled Kashmiri Muslim politicians…???...... And look what blood havoc they created in our own Kashmir using their guns, money & mercenaries & a bunch of their henchmen in Kashmir. As you sow, so shall you reap. Pity…. Poor Benazir, so sad she fell victim to the very beast that she unleashed in our Kashmir…remember her war cries in 1990…???... ‘Jagmohan ko bagmohan karo’ …..etc.etc…. You & me –we Kashmiris including the common Kashmiri Muslims even though many of them did also fall prey to the indoctrination as well as other interests ,can not ignore the scars on our psyche, inflicted by jihad from Pakistan. Reconciliation is going to be a long drawn affair.. The contention that the overwhelming turn out in recent elections was for bijli, pani & sadak only prolongs our agony. Because, one the Kashmiri Muslim separatists had issued an unambiguous dictate against elections & they have always advocated 'azadi- bara- e- Islam' i.e. ‘freedom through Islam’ over development ( …..many parts of Kashmir continue to resemble a ‘run over’ medieval battlefield – the burnt down houses of exiled Kashmiri Pandits along the Jhelum banks…….) & two because the Kashmiri Muslim masses rejected the calls of boycott braving threats & coercion .And third because the common people choose deliberate silence & there was no uproar against the detention of separatists. Look at the helplessness of these few scoundrels who have been holding the valley & the country for ransom for the past two decades. To talk of Kashmir ‘issue’ at this stage indicates a sinister design by their facilitators out side the valley as well as the vested interests within the valley & outside, to resurrect the dead. It only gives credence to the 'game' that you have referred to. The common people have done it .Now it is the time for the poets, artists & intellectuals in the valley to come forward & break their conspicuous silence. It is not just enough to ‘feel sad’ over the violation of the serenity of our beloved valley by a few of our own who choose to burn our own backyard at the behest of our neighbour. Isn’t it sad that that the ‘pen’ & the ‘brush’ failed to exercise their might against the jihadi guns? Do you recall the courage of that teacher in Swat who out rightly refused to wear his shelwar above his knee & was beheaded, recently? If only the masses in Kashmir had not succumbed to the religious blackmail, the fear of the gun & the dictates during 1989-90……….. And, I do not disagree that one day one of the terror commanders may as well swear by the Indian constitution & become the Chief Minister of J&K state. But will it not be a travesty of justice if those who should be tried for crimes against humanity are ever allowed to rule the state? While the plight of innocent Tamils in Sri Lanka warrants immediate attention, the Sri Lanka can not be faulted for its fight against those who have been using terror for political purposes. As for Pakistan, do you really think that today even Pakistanis themselves would be interested to play or watch cricket in the wake of their President’s candid admission that Pakistan is in the danger of being taken over by marauding Taliban……. Af-Pak itself is a serious ‘game’ now…????..... I sincerely share your concerns over criminalisation of politics, growing corruption, dynasty politics in a democracy, preservation of heritage, environment, fake medicines, and mindless corporatisation of our day to day lives ,etc etc………… Regards LA -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 12:04:39 +0530> From: indersalim at gmail.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice> > Dear Lalit> > some one very interestingly wrote, that how India is happy to play> cricket with Sri Lanka who have devastated the entire population of> Sri Lankan Tamils, but have refused to play Pakistan. Sri Lanka and> Pakistan happily played their series, and now Inida is happily> playing their game. Note the word Game. The nation state is also a> game, which suits it from time to time, Right, but we deserve to have> our own view points about the games being played across the table.> > Now, with Yasin Malik, you are only proving me right. I quote you,> "last year but for the timely intervention of the security forces his> cohorts would have been lynched by the followers of that part time> moolvi/separatist ..."> > Read timely intervention of Security Forces, and his opposition within> Kashmir. Are not these two position completely in sync with what i am> trying to high light? . Is it in the Interest of India to save Yasin> Malik , and is it in the interest of Kashmiri Muslims to see him> 'lynched' ? If both Kashmiri Muslims and Kashmiri Hindus are enemies> of Yasin Malik then who is whose enemy right now. Why dont Kashmiri> Pandits trust the present legitimate Govt. and return back to their> 'Root in Kashmir'. Any hindrance to that lies in the fact that> Pakistani activists are still active in the valley, right, that means> Kashmiri muslims are not enemies of Kashmiri pandits but only> Pakistani establishment, say ISI. And if we say that there is no> difference between Kashmiri muslim and Pakistanis then we know it is> pakistan and we are dealing with one enemy which has its army, its> police, its intelligence, its cricket team and its nuclear weapons.> > who will answer these question? you have raised them, i agree, but why> dont we see the Kashmir problem from different perspective. The> Nationalistic one is too known, Pakistani one is in contrast with> that. But what is new. I am not even talking about a new formation of> a new country. But how to resolve the Kashmir dispute. How to> negotiate LOC. How to dissolve territories in the world. Europe has> done it, why dont we imitate their good things. The possibilities are> endless.> > I dont mind if Yasin Malik is replaced by some one more sincere to> the problem itself. There are chances, history might repeat itself,> like Sheikh Mohd Abdullah he too might enter an accord with center,> and later on give us a handsome son like Farooq Abullah and his son> like Umar Abudullah to Kashmir who might rule as CM in Kashmir in> future. Who knows what is relevant to future generations. So why not> to cultivate a personal intellect to understand the problem, not only> Kashmir but other problems too.> > The recent election as we know are all about Bijli, Panni and saddak.> Some opportunities for parents to see their children read and write> and earn a dignified life. Besides that, i am not too interested in> Dynasty politics which is running the whole show for Indian Democracy> all over the country. I see, Zardari and Sonia Gandhi strangely> related to each other: Unknown Brother, Unknown Sister.> > You mentioned about my performance at Arpana Gallery, ' I am neither> here, nor there'. thanks for that. We both agree that we have lost the> ground. But i was not not only doing it about Kashmir, but about the> disappearance of ' the feminine' from our sensibilities, and how to> restore that, and how to realize the trace of the ' that sensibility'> within ones own being, given the situation of a up turned box with> garments scattered here and there.> Please see the images , http://indersalim.livejournal.com/56394.html> and i wish you write something on that too.> > From here, i take the point to something entirely unrelated to Kashmir> problem and yet there is a connection.> A homeless family ( hindu ) was living in a 600 year old Muslim> monument in Delhi. The family is fighting a legal case with Waqf Board> regarding the ownership of the ancient ruins which was turned into a> home with water and electricity. Right. Imagine the family was a> migrant from Paskitan or a dalit who had no access to land and other> resources. Right, he needs to the thrown out, as he was but not now,> the way he was, it should not happened in first place, silly that it> happened 60 years ago.> > Now on the other side of the city: Surpreme court today said that> Cars are choking the city space. The industry of cars is stealing the> public space. If we all are collectively hand in glove with stealing> of the precious space what moral right we have to protest the> occupation of a Heritage structure by a homelss family. We are blind> to monumental tragedies that are happening around us. We are> unwittingly ready to forgive all the criminals in the parliament, and> give awards to manufacturers of fake medicine and what not. We can> go to any extent if our son dream to follow Rajju of Satyam. I see a> Raju in every corporate house. We are sadly part of the whole choas.> How it happens, and as i said, i am also looking for answers. There is> a Kashmiri Proverb, ' Sajde divan zale, handvend gatschan yeere' ( We> are too occupied to capture the small things, like straws, while> bigger things like water-melons keep on drifting )> > Something similar is happening in Kashmir. Perhaps, we are too> nationalistically thinking about it, when the Nation State itself is> playing Games which are unknown to us.> > My guess is that rigidity of Nation State in dealing with issues like> Kashmir pushes the entire population to frenzy, and embrace> fundamentalism. You know how poets artists and intellectuals in> Kashmir are sad about the present situation. They are unable to> express freely, but who is responsible. Indian Sate policy never did a> bit to restore the ancient legacy of Kashmir. Swat like situation is> unfortunately gifted to us by Anglo-Amercian policies and their> yes-men in our politics. Why Muslim Turkey is not giving birth of> Swat like situations. Why were people in Swat were as gentle as> people living in our kashmiri neighbourhood. Or, all people full of> possibilities, are vulnerable to become Buddhists, Muslims,> Communists, Hindus and even Nazis at the same time? Just by sporting> a white collar and a red tie in a car does not make one a great human> being. I am not saying, driving a car is ugly, but what i am trying> to say here is that in absence of so called Muslim Terrorism the world> is not a heavenly place to live in. I believe, the systems of ways of> living on this planet earth are bound create VIOLENCE this way or that> way.> > It is just a way of looking at what is more violent and what is less> violent. Non-violence is perhaps deeper than a simple definition of> not-killing the other. Violence on the other hand is affecting our> lives from head to toe, This is truly a subjective discussion, but> what is other way ?> > I am trying to understand, just like an average a student> > with love and regards> inder salim> > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 2:34 AM, Lalit Ambardar> wrote:> > Coming from the author of such a touching presentation like "na ches taty,> > na yeti"( i am neither there nor here) this attempt to surrect now almost> > abandoned 'original sinner' who founded the 'gun' culture in the valley at> > the behest of his Pakistani masters is intriguing.> >> > Kashmiris, in the past two decades have gone through the hell -> > the selective brutal targetting that led to the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri> > Hindu Pandits in the valley -the plight of ordinary Kashmiri Muslims who> > were coerced in to following the jihadi diktats- the destruction of the very> > social fabric called Kashmiriyat etc. etc.........& who claimed credit for> > having ferried weapons in to Kashmir to launch the jihad - the one you are> > trying to glorify.> >> > Please,understand he does not represent the Kashmiri Muslims - last year but> > for the timely intervention of the security forces his cohorts would have> > been lynched by the followers of that part time moolvi/separatist Umar> > Farooq when JKLF wanted to open an outlet in the territory of Umar Farooq> > only a couple of kilometres away from the JKLF fiefdom .> >> > The misery of exodus is not missed in your post but the frustration canot> > be justify glorification of a terrorist .> >> > It is difficult to guess the motive that has driven a well qualified artist> > towards a terror commander at whose instigation & motivation hundreds of> > docile Kashmiri Muslims, in the name of Islam,embraced death leaving behind> > their mothers ,widows & orphans wailling for their loved ones.> >> > It could be akin to the infatuation of that Napales damsel for that serial> > 'bikini killer' or it is all in the name of jihad......????....> >> >> > Will marital bliss to this killer of Kashmiriyat make him repent for his> > deeds .......???.....> >> > Or is this a ploy to generate sympathy to escape the law.....????.......or> > part of a new game.....???.....> >> > Regards all> > LA> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:39:25 +0530> >> From: indersalim at gmail.com> >> To: reader-list at sarai.net> >> Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice> >>> >> Dear all> >> Please click the web site by Musaall Mullick, Fiancée of Yasin Malik,> >> the well known 'rebel' leader from Jammu and Kashmir. I think it is> >> interesting.> >>> >> http://mushaalmullick.com/default.aspx> >>> >> I have pasted this link, precisely to see some meaning in Yasin> >> Malik's choice. One of Musaall's water colour is titled 'Shame of the> >> Humanity'. It shows a young girl child who deserves all the attention.> >>> >> Yasin Malik has lot of admirers and critic around the world; that> >> applies even to Kashmir valley. Only time will tell us how seriously> >> he grasped the Kashmir issue.> >>> >> Perhaps, this latest step speaks something about his priorities.> >> Certainly, if SAS Geelani, his Hurriyat colleague, was young and> >> going to be married, he would not have chosen a girl like Musaall as> >> his Shareek-e-Hayyat ( better half ), but some one who would prefer to> >> stay behind veil all the time.> >>> >> One of the water colour of Musaall depicts a woman with a Bindi (> >> predominately used by Hindu women ). What does that mean? It means, a> >> Swat Valley like situation is certainly not Yasin Malik's cup of tea,> >> but something which has a space for freedom, freedom of choice,> >> particularly for women.> >>> >> Only time will tell us whether Yasin's Malik's Safar-e-Azadi will take> >> Kashmir on the path which is meaningful for both Musaall-Malik jodi> >> but People in general as well. There is ray of hope hidden in his> >> choice to wed a painter living in London. Imran Khan, the> >> cricketer-politician did almost similar to that, but failed to mix his> >> choice with his political vision. Will Yasin too follow Imran, or will> >> he let Musaall speak her mind freely ?> >>> >> Kashmir is seriously looking forward to see someone who speaks boldly> >> about the situation of women in J&K. For example, no woman in J&K has> >> any legal rights to retain a square inch of land in case she happens> >> to get married to a non-J&K citizen. That is truly against Women. But> >> slowly, I want Yasin to speak about this issue as well, even at the> >> cost of popularity. No previous govt has dared to speak about this> >> issue. The present Govt in J&K too will never support any idea like> >> that. So, he can outwit them on this account. This is golden chance.> >> Things like that can bring some real changes for a smooth and> >> dignified return of Kashmiri Pandits to Valley.> >>> >> The other issue is environment, which is as serious as Women's issues.> >> I have not gone though his agenda of Safray-Azadi but I wish issues> >> like that are thoroughly woven in his Azadi text. He needs to speak> >> about the need to protect the flora and fauna in J&K, besides a> >> sincere call for a simple living. He needs to talk about the revival> >> of folk arts and other forms of artistic expressions.> >>> >> This I am writing at a time when J&K is entering a special post free> >> election phase for a great good governance. But that is that. We still> >> have KASHMIR ISSUE, staring into our eyes as before. So, when every> >> other intellectual in India is dismissive about Hurriyat who obviously> >> gained nothing by giving Boycott call for Elections; I see them very> >> much there, as significant as ever.> >>> >> Indeed people like me who were victims of 1990 approach to Kashmir> >> Problem, but I believe, that some fresh approach is needed to> >> understand Kashmir. It just happens that Kashmir is a Muslim Majority> >> area, but Kashmir is not a Muslim problem, but a problem similar to> >> Buddhist Tibet. There has to be some inner need to understand the> >> troubles which a line called 'territory' inflicts on us. Why Kashmir> >> was divided. What is LOC after all?> >>> >> I know, there will be lot of angry reaction to this small mail, but I> >> hope some restraint, and cool minded approach. I am truly myself> >> looking for some answers. I don't see a great politician around with> >> some vision to bring a real change in our society, both at grass root> >> level and beyond.> >>> >> Capitalistic and narrow minded politics has ruined our systems of> >> living, and we are left with a situation like in Gaza where Israel is> >> openly killing women and children. Europe and America are silent,> >> which means they are not bothered by Palestine problem as they see it.> >> So, Hamas is bad, even when they have people's support.> >>> >> So, imagine, if tomorrow Hurriyat decides to fight elections in J&K ,> >> and if they come to power and declare freedom on the very first day of> >> office, what choice India has? Arrest them there, with head lines> >> against Indian Democracy all over the world. So, is non-participation> >> is a blessing in disguise for Indian Government ?> >>> >> Let us talk to Yasin, more meaningfully, than before. I am talking> >> on my own behalf.> >>> >> With love and regards> >> Inder salim> >>> >>> >> --> >> _________________________________________> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> >> Critiques & Collaborations> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with> >> subscribe in the subject header.> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>> >> >> > ________________________________> > Need more space to upload pictures? Get 25 GB online storage with Windows> > Live SkyDrive! Try it!> > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ For the freshest Indian Jobs Visit MSN Jobs http://www.in.msn.com/jobs From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Feb 18 10:29:04 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:29:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Why the US bugged Pakistan Army generals - Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902172059m38e716a6if314e983efed0a95@mail.gmail.com> "Rauf Klasra offers excerprts from David E Sanger's book "The Inheritance: The World Obama Confronts..." Monday, February 16, 2009 *Book claims drone attacks began after ISI-Taliban coordination confirmed* By Rauf Klasra ISLAMABAD: A new book by a New York Times journalist has levelled serious allegations against Pakistan and its Army claiming the telephones of all senior officers, including the COAS General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani were bugged by Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and National Security Agency (NSA), the main eavesdropping US agencies around the world. The book written by David E Sanger, which has hit the stands a few days back, claims that the American intelligence agencies were intercepting telephonic conversations of Army officers and the decision to attack Pakistan through drones was taken after one such high level conversation was intercepted claiming the Taliban as a "strategic asset" for Pakistan. The book, titled "The Inheritance: The World Obama Confronts and the challenges to American power" claims the decision to invade Pakistani territories was taken after the CIA reached a conclusion that the ISI was absolutely in complete coordination with the Taliban. The NSA intercepted messages indicating that ISI officers were helping the Taliban in planning a big bombing attack in Afghanistan although the target was unclear. After some days, the Kandahar Jail was attacked by the Taliban and hundreds of Taliban were freed, it says. General Kayani would be the second army chief of Pakistan whose conversations have been bugged by the Americans, if the allegations in the book are true. Earlier the FBI had intercepted the telephone conversation between President Musharraf and Benazir Bhutto when Musharraf had threatened her that her safety within Pakistan depended upon her nature of relationship with him (Musharraf). The Indians had also recorded a telephone conversation between General Musharraf and General Aziz when Musharraf was in Beijing during the Kargil war days. The author who seemed to have been given direct access to the secret record of several meetings held at the White House before George Bush left the presidency on January 20, has made several revelations in his book. The book has also disclosed that NSA was already picking up interceptions, as the units of Pakistan army were getting ready to hit a school in the tribal areas. Someone was giving advance warning of what was coming. The book said they must have dialed 1-800-HAQQANI, said one person who was familiar with the intercepted conversation. According to another para, the account of the warning sent to the school was almost comical. "It was something like that "Hey, we are going to hit your place in a few days, so if anyone important is there, you might want to tell them to scream". The book also establishes that the Americans were in full knowledge of the facts on the ground and they started attacking territories inside Pakistan as they thought the Pakistan army and intelligence agencies were no more interested in fighting the Taliban. In chapter 8 of the book on Pakistan "Crossing the Line", the author has also revealed that how an angry two star army officer of Pakistan army had actually unfolded the whole secret plan of Pakistan army deliberately before a US spy master McConell. The book said, the US intelligence agencies knew very well that Musharraf was playing a double game with them as on the one hand he was assuring the Americans that only he could fight against the Taliban and on the other, he was backing the militancy and the militants. "Musharraf's record of duplicity was well known. The author has written this chapter on Pakistan on basis of some secret trips of America's twwo top spy chiefs-McConnel an Haden-nicknamed as "two Mikes" who had held several meetings with the top military army officers including General Pervez Musharraf. The author records that in late May 2008, McConnel made a secret trip to Pakistan, his fourth or fifth since becoming the director of national intelligence, trips that seemed to blur together in his head. But this one was dramatically different from the rest- and ended up driving the push in the last days of the Bush administration to greatly step up covert action across the border into Pakistan. The book says, packing quickly through his usual rounds of meetings with Musharraf and a raft of intelligence officials in Islamabad, McConnel and his small entourage found themselves in a conference room with several military officers, including a two star Pakistan general. No officer was talking to other participants in the meeting as if the American intelligence chief, the visiting dignitary for the day, wasn't in the room. Not surprisingly, he was being pressed about Pakistan strategy in the tribal areas, and he was "reluctant to start" one of the participants in the conversation recalled. "But once he got into it, he could not contain himself". The two-star general began making the case that the real problem was the tribal areas and in Afghanistan was not al-Qaeda or the Taliban, or even the militants who were trying to topple the Pakistani government. The real problem was Pakistan's rival of more than sixty years which he said was secretly manipulating events in an effort to crush Pakistan and undo the 1947 partition that sought to separate the Islamic and Hindu states. "The overwhelming enemy is India", the Pakistani officer told the General. "We have to watch them at every moment. We have had wars with India, he said as everyone in the room needed reminding." The Pakistani two-star general described President Karzai's cozy relationship with India, seeking investment and aid. With alarm, he talked about how the Indians were opening consulates around the country and building roads. What the rest of the world saw as a desperately needed nation-building programme, Pakistan saw as a threat. He was not alone in that view, conspiracy theories about Indian activities in Afghanistan are a daily staple in the Pakistani media. As the officer talked, he became more and more animated. The Indians will surround us and annihilate us, he said, knowing McConnel was hearing every word. "And the Indians in their surrounding strategy, have gone to Afghanistan." Those newly built roads were future invasion routes, he seemed to suggest, without quite saying so. The consulates were dens of Indian spies. The real purpose of the humanitarian aid to Afghanistan was to run "operations out of Afghanistan to target Pakistan". The conspiracy theory deepened. "In the long run, America will not have the stomach to bear the burden of staying in Afghanistan," the officer continued, still seeming to ignore the presence of the American intelligence chief. "And when the Americans pull out, India will reign. Therefore, the Pakistanis will have to sustain the contacts with the opposition to the Afghanistan government meaning the Taliban so when the Americans pull out, it's a friendly government to Pakistan. "Therefore," the officer concluded with a flourish, "we must support the Taliban", two-star general announced in the meeting in the presence of US spymaster. The last statement of the two star general stunned McConnel. For six years, the Americans had paid upward $10 billion to the Pakistan army to support its operations against al-Qaeda and the Taliban. Bush and his aides knew — though they never admitted that much of the money had been diverted to buying equipment for the Pakistan military to bulk up against the Indian. Now a Pakistani officer in his fury and frustration, was openly admitting that the Pakistani government had officially denied that it was playing both sides of the war—-the Americans side and Taliban side. In return for the Americans billions, Pakistani forces or intelligence agencies operatives occasionally picked off a few al-Qaeda leaders (though even that had slowed to a trickle). But they were actively supporting the Taliban and even some militants in the tribal region. It was almost as if the American taxpayers were making monthly deposits in the Taliban bank accounts. Some in the Pentagon objected but were overruled. None of this was really a surprise-except to the American people who were regularly told by President Bush that Pakistan and its leadership were a strong ally against terror. Even some of the Bush aides cringed when he uttered those words "it was like hearing him say, victory in Iraq", one told me after leaving the muddled complexity of it all was some kind of admission of defeat. Even some inside the While House, admitted to me (author) that "reimbursements" to the Pakistani military were just this side of fraud. They had been paid out when Musharraf had announced he was pulling back from tribal areas because of a "truce" with the tribal leaders. When Congress threatened to link the reimbursement to the Pakistan military performance, one American general summarized this reaction this way: "It's about goddamn time". Bush knew the truth. Intelligence reports written over the past five years have all documented the ISI support for Taliban-something Bush had admitted to me (author) and other reporters. He knew of course that even Musharraf had little interest in sending his army into tribal areas. Every military professional who returned from Islamabad came back with the same report. Seven years after 9/11, 80 per cent of Pakistan military was arrayed against India. McConnel himself returning from one of his trips noted that there is only one army that has more artillery tubes per unit, everything from old cannons to rocket launchers and mortars. It's North Koreas', he said. It was a telling statistic. Artillery tubes weigh tonnes and are useful only in holding back Indian hordes as they come across the plains. They are useless against terrorists enclaves. Overhearing the two-star's rant about India was not the only rude surprise McConnel experienced on this trip. He had brought with him the chart he used in the White House situation room tracking the number of attacks inside Pakistan over the past two and a half years. One of the charts showed that about 13,000 Pakistanis had been killed in 2007 chiefly by suicide bombers, about double the numbers in 2006. He told Musharraf and General Kayani, the former DG ISI, that the casualty numbers on the track to double again in 2008. Then he described the interviews that Osama Bin laden and his deputies had given, declaring their intention to topple the Pakistan government. "You are aware of these casualty numbers and what Osama said of course", McConnel asked. He got blank stares. They told him they had heard about Bin Laden statements. "It was news", McConnel reported to his colleagues later. "I talked to the highest level of the Pakistani government and it was news. They just were not tracking it". It astounded him that the officials in Washington and at the American embassy in Islamabad might be keeping more careful tabs on the rising number of attacks than were Musahrraf or Pakistani crop of democratically elected leaders. Were they ignoring the obvious or were they just denying they knew about it, part of the deception within the deceptions as they supported both sides in the terror fight. When McConnel returned to Washington in late 2008, he ordered up a full assessment so that he could match what he had heard from the single angry officer with the intelligence that had poured in over the years. His question was a basic one. Is there what McConnel called an officially sanctioned "dual policy" in Pakistan?" That was a polite way of asking whether the leadership of the country including Musahrraf had been playing both sides of the war all along. It did not take long for McConnel's staff to produce the answer. McConnel took the formal assessment to the White House, concluding that the Pakistani government regularly gave the Taliban and some of the militant groups "weapons and supporters to go into Afghanistan to attack Afghan and coalition forces". This was not news to many in the administration but McConnel wanted to have it down on paper. The assessment was circulated to the entire national security leadership and to Bush who was still giving public speeches praising Musharraf as a great ally. "It was news to him," said one of the officials who briefed Bush and watched his reaction to McConnel's assessment. "And he always says the same thing, so what do you do about it? By the summer, Bush answered his own question. For the first time in a presidency filled with secret unilateral actions, he authorized the American military to invade an ally-Pakistan. Editor's Note: The ISPR has been requested for a detailed response and whenever available it would be given equal and similar space. (The News) http://letusbuildpakistan.blogspot.com/2009/02/why-us-bugged-pakistan-army-generals.html From siddharth.narrain at gmail.com Wed Feb 18 10:48:43 2009 From: siddharth.narrain at gmail.com (siddharth narrain) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:48:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Film-making Fellowship In-Reply-To: <5ac9ecd30902132039r74b1a799ob8deeff6ed4197f0@mail.gmail.com> References: <5ac9ecd30902132039r74b1a799ob8deeff6ed4197f0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1773a06d0902172118qac64070m955dae4dc7f9424c@mail.gmail.com> For those interested Documentary Film-making fellowship at the George Washington University. Link below: http://www.gwu.edu/doccenter/2009%20Fellowship%20Application.pdf From cubbykabi at yahoo.com Wed Feb 18 11:19:59 2009 From: cubbykabi at yahoo.com (kabi cubby sherman) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 11:19:59 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?b?RG9lcyDigJxTbHVtZG9nIE1pbGxpb25haXJl4oCd?= =?utf-8?q?_have_a_wrong_answer=3F?= References: <950511.58788.qm@web53607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <325818.64248.qm@web94716.mail.in2.yahoo.com> is it slumdog that has the wrong answer or is it the book Q&A upon which it is based, that has the wrong answer. i haven't read the book. kabi Meter Down - काली पीली की कहानी blog: http://meterdown.wordpress.com podcast: http://feeds.feedburner.com/meterdown ________________________________ From: mihir pandya To: sarai Sent: Saturday, 14 February, 2009 1:57:01 AM Subject: [Reader-list] Does “Slumdog Millionaire” have a wrong answer? This interesting piece by Rajeev Sarivastav appeared in today's The Hindu friday plus. Link:-http://www.hindu.com/fr/2009/02/13/stories/2009021350050100.htm.......... Danny Boyle’s “Slumdog Millionaire” is the buzz of the cinema world. The film is based on a poor boy who reaches the top by winning a quiz contest. The key formula behind such a concept was shown in Amitabh Bachchan’s films in 1970s and 80s such as “Deewaar”, “Laawaris”, “Muqaddar Ka Sikandar”, “Don”, “Ram Balram”, “Coolie” and others, which showed how dreams can come true. If today “Slumdog Millionaire” can get the Golden Globe award and nominations for the Oscar then it should be assumed that all these movies of Amitabh Bachchan are as good as “Slumdog Millioanire”. If you go through different aspects of “Slumdog Millionaire”, you will realise that there is a need for more research. The answer of one of the questions which was asked in the TV quiz contest in the film is wrong. Even the options given with the question are incorrect. The question asked was “Name the Indian poet who wrote the poem, “Darshan do ghanshyam nath mori akhiyan pyasi re”. The answer to this particular question is given in the film as Surdas, which has been declared as the right answer in the film. “Darshan do ghanshyam” is written by the Hindi film lyric writer Gopal Singh Nepali. It is a long devotional song which was used in the Hindi film “Narsi Bhagat” (1957) directed by Devendra Goel. This song was composed by the veteran music director Ravi. HMV has released this song in three parts, which are sung by singers Hemant Kumar, Manna Dey and Sudha Malhotra. In the film all songs have been penned by the late Gopal Singh Nepali. So the only right answer to this particular millionaire question is Gopal Singh Nepali, a song writer of Hindi films from late 30s to the 60s. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Connect with friends all over the world. Get Yahoo! India Messenger at http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/?wm=n/ From tetranew at sarai.net Wed Feb 18 11:58:25 2009 From: tetranew at sarai.net (tetra) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 11:58:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] test Message-ID: <499BAA89.3080408@sarai.net> From aashu.gupta20 at gmail.com Wed Feb 18 12:10:24 2009 From: aashu.gupta20 at gmail.com (Aashish Gupta) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 12:10:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Singing Revolution Message-ID: Watch the trailer of the documentary, on the Estonia's Singing Revolution. While seeing it, Kashmir frequently came up my mind. A very remarkable social movement, I must say. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZn-oagtjKg The full documentary is also available on you tube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVYqFPq88VU Aashish From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 18 15:15:21 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 01:45:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India In-Reply-To: <341380d00902140753y3c4713f9jed0899a27e1123d7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <103055.88814.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Anupam   1. It would have been graceful if you had simply accepted that you erred in attributing a comment to me which I had not made. Maybe that is expecting too much from you.   2. Your contention is ridiculous that if I find nothing objectionable in Aman-Shanti's comment then I am party to it.    There are uncountable Comments/Positions that a person might not find objectionable but that would not mean that the person is 'party to' such Comments/Positions. Think over that because I do not want to bludgeon you with examples.   3. Your comment "even, your political stand on Jamia encounters is appreciated" seemed to be directed at me. If it was, then again you are fantasising. I never declared any 'political stand' on the "Jamia encounters"    Kshmendra   --- On Sat, 2/14/09, anupam chakravartty wrote: From: anupam chakravartty Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India To: "sarai list" Date: Saturday, February 14, 2009, 9:23 PM dear kshmendra and aman, In your recent comment written: "It was not I who wrote 'indian muslims should ask al-qaeda to stop terror attacks'. So your comment that you found 'my line problematic' was a misdirected comment. I personally find nothing objectionable in the 'line' that was actually posted by Aman-Shanti: """ Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world." so logically, my misdirected comment actually hit the right spot. and as you are now saying that there is nothing objectionable in aman shanti's comment, so you are also a party to it. to repeat what i said, earlier, the proposition that "indian muslims are against terrorism" is a good idea. even, your political stand on Jamia encounters is appreciated. but then what is this message you are sending in the header: "Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India."? i personally have no problems with such initiatives but at least aman should have used the right words.* aman's (your's too kshmendra) understanding of the situation after reading the header looks like indian muslims have been inviting alqaeda all this while and now if they ask to stop it, they would do so.* i am trying to point towards a fallacy which aman has made. you can change it and i hope you can change your hearts also while dealing with something so elusive and destructive as terrorism. and if you guys think, that you can ask anyone to adopt such an initiative through this mailing list, then you all are wrong. i would not visit your blog or your facebook as a sign of protest against these specific words: "Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world". it is completely upto you to change it and come up with something else. to put it very simply: how's my friend abdul (being an indian muslim) connected with al-qaeda? in what capacity should abdul, particularly (as your header suggests), who paints and dreams of faiz and nazrul, should go to al-qaeda and ask them to stop their acts? how is he a stakeholder? is every muslim a stake holder in the crimes committed by a group of mujaheedins? why should abdul be pinpointed, when all of you self-righteous peace loving people (including me) are responsible for what has been happening in the country? -anupam _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 18 15:52:45 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 02:22:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] The caste of a scam In-Reply-To: <1fd66c110902140121s573d90bbn23bf48ca0d94035f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <127221.78400.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> As far as I know (I may be corrected), the Independent Directors are not responsible for "preparation" of the Balance Sheet.   That is the domain of Executive Directors and other Operating Officers   In my opinion, as far as the financial irregularities are concerned, "Incompetence" is the apt charge against the Independent Directors and not "Complicity"   K --- On Sat, 2/14/09, Shivam V wrote: From: Shivam V Subject: [Reader-list] The caste of a scam To: "sarai list" Date: Saturday, February 14, 2009, 2:51 PM It is not by accident that independent directors, auditors, and CFOs associated with the Satyam scam have pleaded guilty to the lesser but more ignominious charge of incompetence than be arraigned for the higher crime of complicity in financial irregularities. The CFO of Satyam - Vadlamani Srinivas has confessed that he does "not pay much attention to the details of the balance sheet", and that he just passes the balance sheets and accounts statements prepared by his assistants. Perhaps the CFO was recruited on the basis of reservation and hence was incompetent and inefficient? He has also stated that PricewaterhouseCoopers – the auditors of Satyam – "never pointed out any 'deficiencies' during their discussions with me". PricewaterhouseCoopers is known for recruiting from the IIMs and other reputed business schools. Is it the IIMs and other business schools that have produced the incompetent auditors employed by the company? More here by D Parthasarathy: http://kafila.org/2009/02/13/the-caste-of-a-scam-a-thousand-satyams-in-the-making/ _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. 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To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From waliarifi3 at gmail.com Wed Feb 18 18:13:02 2009 From: waliarifi3 at gmail.com (Wali Arifi) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:13:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 'Not a single muslim forced us to leave' Prof Tikko Message-ID: <4fcaee300902180443o7553005ar2c0ac66ee3a2cb6e@mail.gmail.com> Since we have been reading only one version of Kashmiri Pandit story in the larger narrative of the Kashmir dispute, here is a glimpse into another version. http://www.kashmirwatch.com/showexclusives.php?subaction=showfull&id=1234974634&archive=&start_from=&ucat=15&var1news=value1news 'Not a single muslim forced us to leave' Prof Tikko * Two decades of Exile* Manohar Nath Tickoo Professor Manohar Nath Tikko, 74, was a college teacher and head of the department of Education at the Governmnt College Islamabad. He lived in Haire Mohalla, Janglat Mandi in Anantnag before he left Kashmir at the peak of insurgency in 1990. For the last two decades, he is living at the scorching locale of Bohdi in Jammu . Q1) What prompted your migration? I left with my family on Friday, 31st May 1990 with the first light in the dawn and reached Jammu same day in the early afternoon. I still remember that fateful day when I was forced by none other than my own wife and daughters to leave. All my Muslim neighbours came to my home biding my family a fond farewell with tearful eyes. Me and my neighbours never wanted my family to leave Kashmir but there was definitely a massive psychological fear created by unknown agencies against the Kashmiri Pandits which forced us to leave. Although the fact remains that not a single Muslim forced us to leave. Q2) Do you nurture any dreams of coming back? A:- Well, I do believe that Pundits will get back to their home land but I can't predict a time for it. However, I don't not believe the Central [Indian] or [local] State government claims that the Pandits will be rehabilitated in their original homes. This is a blatant lie, as there hasn't been any strategy for our rehabilitation since we have left the Valley. The past governments did built some residential houses at places like Tulmul, Budgam and Mattan, but I believe this was for electoral politics. Q3) There are many examples of Pandits returning back. Could you perhaps follow the suit? A:- No I am sorry. I don't hesitate to tell u a stark fact that I would feel emotionally insulted if I return back to my home this time because we left our mother land without any force from our fellow people. I believe that Kashmiri Pundits should have remained in the Valley and they must have fought the freedom struggle with their fellow Muslim citizens. Even we should have sacrificed in the similar fashion our Muslim brothers did for the Kashmir cause, but unfortunately we did not do that. Even I wouldn't mind if hundred thousand Kashmir Pundits would have been martyred for freedom struggle because Kashmir cause has no less a meaning for Kashmiri Pundits. It is bizarre when we "Kashmir Pundits" vociferously beat the drums, searching for "Panun Kashmir", ironically outside the Kashmir , therefore it has literally lost its spirit and meaning.. Q4) How do you view the Kashmir problem? A:- Kashmir is a very old issue which has mutated into a monster now. But it can be solved by sincere and honest leadership in India , Pakistan and Kashmir . Gimmicks like holding elections cannot be used to fade the reality of Kashmir being an unresolved issue. Holding election in the presence of half a million troops shows the level of legitimacy and the feigned democratic nature in Kashmir . My personal opinion is that Kashmir issue is the issue of those who speak Kashmiri language. It should not be hyphenated or related to the other parts like Jammu and Ladakh; they have never been a relative part of Kashmir and had never any cultural, ethnic or communication links with Kashmir . Kashmir has its own history and it should be recognized as an independent state. It had never been a part of India or British India . Q5) Would the Kashmiri Pandits accept independent Kashmir ? A:- well, not necessarily. I am expressing my opinion without any bias and duality. The opinions are never same even on a common issue. Let me tell you that majority of Pandits did not support Sheikh Abdullah but the Ahrar Party of Moulvi Yousuf Shah. Well know Pandit activists Prem Nath Bazaz and Prem Nath Yash were in favour of Kashmir's accession with Pakistan . I still remember that time when people were asked to opt between India and Pakistan . My late father Sarvanand Tikko who was the Post Master at Anantnag at that time and we used to live inside the Post Office, signed on the document favouring accession with Pakistan and his four collogues including Ghulam Muhammad Shah of Bijbehra and Jagan Nath Rayess. My late father unfurled the Pakistani flag on the top of the Post Office but the goons of National Conference which include Abdul Ahad Tak of Anantnag town made an assault on my father and his colleagues, beat them to pulp and put down the Pakistani flag. They also tried to set the Post Office on fire. Q6) Many Kashmiris often refer to Sheikh Abdullah as 'Gaddar' or traiter. How do you view him? 9 A:- well, It is easy to be wise after the event. Sheikh Abdullah should have not done the "Ilhaq" or accession with India . He did a very serious blunder for the reason that kashmiri people are suffering a lot. Sadly Sheikh Abdullah had no political vision. Prem Nath Bazaz observed that Sheikh Abdullah had no sense of history and he had never read any history on Kashmir . So one can understand the level of political maturity and sincerity of Sheikh Abdullah. Q7) The Pandit argument is that Kashmir has always been part of India ? Kashmir has never been part of India and has no cultural, traditional, ethical and religious semblance with India . Even we Kashmiri Pundits have totally different religious ceremonial and ritual days than of the Indian Hindus and we practice a different mythology. We have no religious attachment with river Ganga ; we used to put the ashes of the dead into the "Naraan Nag Gangbal" near Sonamarg . We never celebrate Diwali but "Hearath". We celebrate a religious day which is called "Sheshar Shenkraat" which is celebrated in the winters in order to avoid demonic influence in winters and there is no example of celebrating such a day in the Indian Hindu mythology. Moreover, Kashmiri Pundits celebrate "Shiv Raatri" differently than Indian Hindus; we prepare a lot of non vegetarian food to break the fast, contrary to Hindus who abstain from meat on the day. Similarly Kashmiri Muslims have a different culture with no relevance with that of Indian culture. Politically, the UN resolutions stand witness to the Kashmir dispute and promises the right to self determination. Had Kashmir not been a disputed state then why Kashmir has its own constitution and flag. And why Pundit Jawahar Lal Nehru took the Kashmir issue to the United Nations. It was only because of Indian political prejudice and insincerity that autonomy of Kashmir was eroded. Q 8) How would you see the contours of its resolution? A:- Well, Kashmir is a much political issue than a religious one. Kashmir has suffered because of a historical political mistake so the key to its resolution is strong political struggle which is possible only when we have strong political institutions with sincere leaders having unanimity on the common Kashmir cause. So far we have failed on diplomatic and international level only because of the poor and corrupt leadership. It is imperative to coordinate the political groups and bring them under one banner and one single leader. I would suggest Sayed Sayed Ali Shah Geelani who has shown strength and resilience while others change their cloaks often. But there has to be inclusion of Pandits in the political leadership. Q10) How would you place Article 370 in this jigsaw puzzle? A:- The Article 370 has no future unless it does not get a permanent place in the Indian Constitution. Since the Article 370 is a temporary Article, it can be abrogated any time by the parliament of India and BJP has included the abrogation of Article 370 in its election manifesto. I think we Kashmiris should have fought vigorously for the permanence of the Article 370. Since the Article 370 is followed with the word "Temporary" has no meaning unless it does not get divorce from it. Moreover, the Indian leadership has always failed to give the due share to the Kashmiris in their democratic doctrines as established in 1950. Q12) How do you see the future of Kashmir ? A:- We must pin hope against hope on the fourth generation after 1947 who can give respite to Kashmiris if they succeed to apply their brains properly. From phadkeshilpa at gmail.com Wed Feb 18 22:19:35 2009 From: phadkeshilpa at gmail.com (Shilpa Phadke) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 22:19:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Reminder: CMCS presents Talk by Melissa Butcher: 19th Feb 2009 Message-ID: > > > *The Centre for Media and Cultural Studies* > > *Tata Institute of Social Sciences* > > is very pleased to invite you to a talk: > > Navigating 'New' Delhi > > The formation of 'Pedestrian Crossings' and 'No-Go Zones' in a Globalising > City > > by > > Melissa Butcher > > *On 19th February 2009* > > *At 4.30 P.M.* > > *Room No. V, Main Campus, Deonar, TISS, Mumbai*** > > > > *Abstract:* > > As a result of urban regeneration in Delhi in line with dominant models of > economic development, flows in the city have shifted resulting in the > traversing of new spaces, the re-appropriation of space in new ways and > engagement in new interactions by its inhabitants. This paper presents > findings from recent qualitative studies aimed at exploring how the city is > being re-imagined, the possibilities and conflicts that are resulting from > spatial transformation and new mobility, focusing on shifting power > relations and cosmopolitan competencies such as imagination and empathy that > are deployed to manage change. > > > > *About the Speaker:* > > Dr Melissa Butcher is a Lecturer in the Department of Geography, the Open > University, UK. The focus of her current research is managing mobility, > cultural change and conflict in diverse urban spaces. Before joining the OU, > Melissa taught in universities in Ireland and Australia, and has also worked > as a journalist, a development education specialist, and an intercultural > consultant and trainer in the private, government and community sectors. She > has lived and worked in Asia, primarily India and Australia, and is > currently writing a book on transnational mobility and cultural change, as > well as co-editing the book 'Dissent and Cultural Resistance in Asia's > Cities' (with Selvaraj Velayutham, Routledge 2009). Her previous > publications include 'Ingenious: Emerging Youth Cultures in Urban Australia' > (with Mandy Thomas, Pluto Press, 2003), and 'Transnational Television, > Cultural Identity and Change: When STAR Came to India' (Sage, 2003). Melissa > presents and writes regularly on issues relating to globalisation, > migration, youth culture and global human resources management. > From savejnu at gmail.com Tue Feb 17 09:56:02 2009 From: savejnu at gmail.com (Students jnu) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 09:56:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] An open letter to the JNU vice chancellor from his students. Message-ID: <128972050902162026i33352c43jdbd261b7f50cc37c@mail.gmail.com> *An open letter to the Vice-Chancellor of JNU from his students* * * Respected Sir, We express our grave anxiety regarding the recent developments in JNU. We believe that the following steps taken by the JNU administration have raised the apprehension of the student community regarding the future of the democratic, socially inclusive character of JNU. 1. Installation of electric meters in Koena Hostel for individual rooms. 2. Hike in the prospectus fee. 3. Unnecessary investment in the beautification of the campus when several ba sic necessities (like 24X7 healthcare, hostel allotment for the students etc.) of the student community remain unfulfilled. 4. Destruction and commercialization of the natural habitat of JNU. 5. Lack of clarity regarding the implementation of OBC reservation. We believe that JNU has been one of the unique institutions of the country which has kept its doors open for all sections of society, especially those coming from the more backward sections. The rise in the prospectus fee will discredit this social cause that JNU has been hailing historically. We also believe that installing meters in individual rooms of hostels will affect the academic atmosphere of the campus by increasing the financial burden on the students. Commercialization of such basic amnesties like electricity is highly unfortunate in a university which celebrates the idea of the state's responsibility in higher education. We are also deeply concerned about the commercialization and destruction of the natural landscape of JNU which is inalienable from whatever JNU stands for. We believe that the recent impasse in JNU is the result of a difference of opinion about the future of JNU that has to be addressed through continuous communication between the administration and the representatives of the various sections of the university community. The situation demands that the channels of negotiation should be opened with the JNUSU so that there is no misunderstanding among the different constituents of the JNU community. *Therefore sir, we expect from you that as the Vice-Chancellor of the institution you will uphold the best democratic tradition of constructive dialogue in JNU founded on the basis of continuous debates, discussions and cooperation among students, teachers, workers and the administration, and immediately initiate discussion and negotiation with the representatives of the concerned sections.* We know that this is the only way to resolve the present crisis. We hope that you would appreciate our concern and take all necessary steps so that the normal academic atmosphere of the university prevails. Waiting in anticipation Yours sincerely Md. Ajijul Dadri, Jeyakirthana. J, Sinjini Basu, Dhrupadi Chattopadhay, Kavita Bharati, Mohsena Newaz, Nidhi Lakhotia, Avadesh Kumar, Shivangi Sinha, Purushottam, Aditya Prakash, Samanna Madhuri, Sunil Kumar, Shafiqul Alam, Manoj Kr., Himalaya Goyel, Vikram, Shivendra kr. Sinha, Priyanka Basu, Himadri Shekhar Dhar, Bhawana Chaudhuri, Ratnashree Patowari, Tapasik, Sandeep, Ashutosh Dayal, Pawan Kundu, Saswata Bhattacharya, Fahim Khan, Aftab Alam, Babloo Rau, Sabyasachi saha, Joydev Dube, Benil Biswas, Noon Chamar, Anu, Anupam Keshav, Abhishek, Amit Ranjan, Veer, Neikolie Knotson, Md. Wahiullah, Anshuman Rahul, Suraj Kumar, Mukesh Kr. Shino Jose, Sanjeev Kr., Chandrashekhar, Prabhat Chandra Rai, Anees, Avijit Das, Suhail-ul- Islam, Aditya Ruhela, Arun Kr. Ved Prakash, Manish, Satyanarayana, Sumit Tripathi, Subin Dennis, H.M Imran, Prakash Kr. Ray, Sanjeev Kumar, Nitin Bharadwaj, Tufai jarul, Chittoranjan Kumar, Anil Kumar, Murari Singh, Subir Dey, Ajay Prakash, Jhinuk Sen, Madhura Mukhopaddhay, Mousumi Mandal, Akash Raha, Sujoi Thakur, Sandip Singh, Karuna Rajiv, Anamika Poonia, Meeta Solanki, Jnaliu Golmei, Kasturi, Seetha, Mahwash Sheeki, Shabnam, Gulshan, Devashri Sinha, Mahalat S. Fudong, Nisha, Sneh Sudha, Sohinee, Karunabh, Smaeer, Kunal, Saptarshi Chaudhuri, Agnitra, Amish Verma, Niraj Kumari, Jeet Bhattacharya, Tianla, sipara Sagarika, Anuradha Sharma, Veena Pani, Anita Meena, protiva Kudu, Suman Singh, Anita Khalkho, Vismay Basu, Urvashi Tilak, Payel Srivastav, Meenakshi, Saheli Chattaraj, Anna Levidhava. -- Save JNU is a campaign launched by some concerned students of Jawaharlal Nehru University as a protest against joint onslaught of the State and The JNU adminstration. We are part of the bigger student community of JNU who are waging an uncompromising struggle against the curtailing of students rights in JNU and the privatization and commercialization process initiated by the JNU administration. We stand united against all forms of onslaught on JNU' s unique democratic and social inclusive character. From vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com Thu Feb 19 11:28:53 2009 From: vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com (Vedavati Jogi) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 11:28:53 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] To: Mr Omar Abdullah In-Reply-To: <1fd66c110902140302l52cfffa4n6fd3ff308f09b337@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <426014.89632.qm@web94708.mail.in2.yahoo.com> this is nothing but military bashing done indirectly height of ungratefulness. sickulars can not do anything else. vedavati --- On Sat, 14/2/09, Shivam V wrote: From: Shivam V Subject: [Reader-list] To: Mr Omar Abdullah To: "sarai list" Date: Saturday, 14 February, 2009, 7:02 PM To: Mr. Omar Abdullah Chief Minister Jammu and Kashmir From: The International People's Tribunal on Human Rights and Justice in Kashmir Conveners: Dr. Angana Chatterji, Associate Professor, Anthropology, California Institute of Integral Studies Advocate Parvez Imroz, Founder, Jammu and Kashmir Coalition of Civil Society Gautam Navlakha, Editorial Consultant, Economic and Political Weekly Zahir-Ud-Din, Vice-President, Jammu and Kashmir Coalition of Civil Society Legal Counsel: Advocate Mihir Desai, Mumbai High Court, Supreme Court of India, Co-founder, Indian People's Tribunal Liaison: Khurram Parvez, Programme Coordinator, Jammu and Kashmir Coalition of Civil Society February 11, 2009 Re.: Memorandum on Human Rights, Peace, and Social Justice Dear Mr. Omar Abdullah: We write you today on behalf of the International People's Tribunal on Human Rights and Justice in Indian-administered Kashmir. [A brief on the Tribunal's premise and objectives may be found at: http://www.kashmirprocess.org/premise.html.] We write, mindful that you have promised attentiveness and accountability to human rights issues in Kashmir, to bring to your attention the need for appropriate action with regard to the following: 1. Disappearances: You have raised issues of enforced disappearances in Kashmir in the past. We ask that you order a full-scale investigation under provisions of the Commissions of Inquiry Act, 1952, and/or other relevant laws, within a stipulated and reasonable timeframe. We ask as well that all laws of Jammu and Kashmir incorporate the premise of the United Nations Declaration on the Protection of All Persons From Enforced Disappearance, the International Convention for the Protection of All Persons from Enforced Disappearance, and the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment. 2. Killing by Police Firings, Fake Encounter Killings, and Extrajudicial Killings: We ask that you use all authority granted you by law to take strong and effective preventive measures to ensure that these are not repeated. As well, we urge that the cases that have been pending in courts, and those that have not been filed, be expeditiously dealt with and the perpetrators be brought to justice. We ask that the Government of Jammu and Kashmir follow the cases pending for sanctions before the Government of India's Home Ministry under Section 7 of Armed Forces Special Powers Act, 1958, (AFSPA). We ask that the state make public the number of cases in which sanctions have been sought from the Government of India, and the number of cases in which the same have been granted. 3. Mass Graves: We note the existence of mass graves in Kashmir, as verified by the Association of Parents of Disappeared Persons and the International People's Tribunal for Human Rights and Justice in Kashmir in 2008. We note that there are connections between the number of persons disappeared and these unmarked, unidentified, nameless, and unknown graves. We also note that various international institutions and bodies, such as the European Parliament, have referred to this issue and made recommendations for action. We ask that your government offer protection to the sites to not permit their desecration or destruction, enable independent and transparent investigations drawing upon varied, credible, and international expertise, and institute an independent and transparent judicial commission of inquiry. 4. Torture: It has been acknowledged by international human rights organizations that the use of torture by military and paramilitary forces is widespread in Kashmir. [See documentations available at http://www.kashmirprocess.org/resources.html.] As well, the Government of India is yet to ratify the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, although it has been a signatory since October 1997. In this context, we ask that the Government of Jammu and Kashmir institute a comprehensive ban on practises of torture as defined by international law and humanitarian ethics. 5. Detention and Torture Centres: We ask that unlawful detention and torture centres, including in army camps, be identified, made public, and banned. Further, we ask that appropriate reparations be determined and undertaken with regard to unlawful and unconstitutional practises undertaken in these camps and centres. We ask that international institutions, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), be permitted to visit the above places to assess the situation independently. 6. Gendered and Sexualized Violences: We note the severity of gendered and sexualized violences that have been perpetrated in Kashmir in the last two decades. Women and children, and others, have been victimized by horrific forms of brutality, including rape, gang and collective rape, perpetrated on women. Other categories of victimization include women whose male partners are missing, labelled 'half-widows'. Women and children, and others, have been subjected to physical and psychological torture and trauma, and social and literal displacements. We note the urgency of undertaking ethical, transparent, and independent assessments of the above in conditions that ensure the safety and security of the survivors/victims, and undertaking requisite reparations and rehabilitation. 7. Prisoners Rights: We ask that prisoners' rights not be violated, and that medical aid be readily made available, and that the right to legal counsel, due process, fair and speedy trials be upheld. 8. Rights of Former Militants: We ask that the civil liberties of former militants and their families be respected. We note that the civic and political rights of former militants, who are now living different and committed lives, continue to be violated by personnel of the military and paramilitary forces. We note that some of them have been subjected to torture after serving sentences and deemed 'rehabilitated' by the justice system. We note that many still have to report to local camps of the security forces on a weekly basis. We note as well that former militants and their families continue to be subjected to maltreatment and denied access to social life, such as to institutions, employment, and pensions. 9. Juvenile Justice: We ask that youth not be taken into custody, held, or tried as adults, and that their rights to legal counsel, due process, and fair and speedy trials be upheld. We ask that a law be enacted that guarantees juvenile justice, that safeguards the rights of juveniles in conflict with law, and neglected and destitute juveniles. We note that young people in general, particularly girls and young women, must be guaranteed an environment free of sexual harassment and violence. We note that young people need to be guaranteed freedom from forms of harassment that undermine their right to education. Impediment to livelihood of adults creates economic insecurity that impacts youth. Family livelihood insecurity compels youth to earn income rather than foreground education and development. Proximity to systemic violence produces severe emotional trauma that manifests as depression, suicidal behaviours, self-medication through drugs, as well as retreat and isolation as coping strategies. There are inadequate provisions to address these issues and respond to these needs. We urge recognition of this reality and the allocation of resources to address these issues. 10. Access to Justice: We ask that all persons seeking to access institutions of law and justice be treated with respect and non-violence by law enforcement agencies. We note that, in countless instances, complaints are disregarded by the police, false first information reports (FIRs) filed, and people's request to file FIRS are met with disrespect, even force. 11. Landmines: We note that the placement of landmines along the border and other sensitive areas in Jammu and Kashmir continues to endanger lives, including those of children. While the Government of India is not a signatory to the Convention on the Prohibition of the Use, Stockpiling, Production and Transfer of Anti-Personnel Mines and on their Destruction, and has continued to justify landmine use in Jammu and Kashmir, we ask that the Government of Jammu and Kashmir institute a comprehensive ban on the use of landmines. We ask that an audit be conducted to ascertain the impact of landmines on local communities, to determine the extent of casualties, devastation, and displacement, and undertake rehabilitation of those affected and de-mining. 12. Transparency: We urge that the Government of Jammu and Kashmir ensure that international organizations and institutions, that have access to other places, are allowed to visit Jammu and Kashmir. We note that the ability of international institutions to work with local civil society institutions in Jammu and Kashmir is crucial to interrupting isolation and producing accountability. We ask that thousands of families who have been denied passports, including human rights defenders and journalists, be provided the same. We ask that, prior to contractual agreements and implementation, all development projects be assessed for their human rights implications. 13. Laws and States of Exception: We note your commitment to the revocation and withdrawal of security related legislation that has been in contravention of international humanitarian laws and norms, such as the Armed Forces Special Powers Act, 1958, (AFSPA), enacted in Jammu and Kashmir in 1990, the Disturbed Areas Act, 1976, enacted in Jammu and Kashmir in 1992, and the Jammu and Kashmir Public Safety Act of 1978. We reiterate the urgent need for the revocation of the Armed Forces Special Powers Act, 1958, the Disturbed Areas Act, 1976, the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act, 1967, and the Jammu and Kashmir Public Safety Act of 1978. We also note that continued criminal proceedings using the Prevention of Terrorism Act, 2002, and the Terrorist and Disruptive Activities (Prevention) Act, 1985, 1987, must be stopped. While the safety and security of citizens must remain of paramount concern, we ask that you remain vigilant to the problematic parameters and consequences of certain national security laws used to proscribe political dissent and deny freedom of expression, freedom of speech, and freedom of assembly, and deny the democratic right to peaceful mobilization and dissent. We note that certain national security laws, in the name of retributive justice, have been/may be used to perpetrate state violence, subvert due process of law, undermine civil liberties, and freedom of the press, eroding rule of law, permitting torture and sexualized violence on those in state custody, criminalizing innocent persons, and, in effect, undermining the safety and security of citizens. 14. Commissions of Inquiry: We ask that the reports and/or findings of various Commissions of Inquiry that have been instituted to inquire into instances of gross violations of human rights, law, and social justice be made public and that these commissions be ordered to complete their charge. Further, from available information, we register our concern that between 2000-2007 only three statutory inquiries have been commissioned and that other inquiries instituted have been magisterial and administrative probes. We ask that, based on ethical assessments of gross violations of human rights, law, and social justice, relevant statutory inquiries be ordered, as appropriate, to investigate these crimes. We ask that various agencies, including military and paramilitary institutions, be required to cooperate with instituted commissions in order that they may carry out their investigations. We ask that the recommendations of the commissions be enacted. 15. Minorities: We note that peace and reconciliation requires commitment to minority rights and issues, and the ethical and transparent resolution of injustices. We ask that an audit be conducted to ascertain the status of minorities in Kashmir, and related to the displacement, dislocation, and rehabilitation of minorities in Jammu and Kashmir, to propose mechanisms for reparation and reconciliation. 16. Truth and Reconciliation Commission: We note your public commitment to instituting a 'Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC)'. We are hopeful that you will appreciate that such a process must facilitate the implementation of justice as a precondition to reconciliation. We further note that the viability and success of a TRC is only possible in a context where demilitarization has taken place, enabling a social context in which the will and freedom of the people of Kashmir can be exercised. 17. In conclusion, we write you today mindful of how the conditions for peace and prosperity are linked to the possibility and necessity of justice in Kashmir. We understand the work of the International People's Tribunal for Human Rights and Justice in Kashmir as enabling the work of justice. Toward that, we hope and expect that the Tribunal will continue to undertake its work in conditions that are not impeded. Yours Sincerely, Angana Chatterji, Parvez Imroz, Gautam Navlakha, Zahir-Ud-Din, Mihir Desai, Khurram Parvez Contact: Khurram Parvez E-mail: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org T: +91-194-2482820 M: +91-9419013553 _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Check out the all-new face of Yahoo! India. Go to http://in.yahoo.com/ From jeebesh at sarai.net Thu Feb 19 12:06:06 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 12:06:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Narcissism / Faith / Models Message-ID: This makes for an interesting relation between narcissism, mathematical models, faith and management graduates. maybe a few MBAs in this list would like to comment on this. best jeebesh Harvard Narcissists With MBAs Killed Wall Street: Kevin Hassett http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&refer=columnist_hassett&sid=a_ac69DqFutQ Feb. 17 (Bloomberg) -- For two centuries, Wall Street survived wars, depressions, bank panics and terrorist attacks. Now Wall Street as we know it is dead. Gone. When a healthy and thriving person dies suddenly, a medical examiner may talk to family and friends to see if the deceased had recently changed behavior in some way. Wall Street did change radically in recent years in one notable way. Twenty or 30 years ago, it was common for the best and the brightest to be doctors or engineers. By the 2000s, they wanted to be investment bankers. When Wall Street was run by people randomly selected from the population, it was able to survive everything. After the best and brightest took over, it died the first time real-estate prices dropped 20 percent. Are the two facts related? In other words, did Harvard kill Wall Street? The suspect certainly had the opportunity. If you walked into any major Wall Street firm a year ago and randomly selected an employee, chances are that person would either be from an Ivy League school like Harvard University, or have an MBA, or both. The statistics are striking. Back in the 1970s, it was typical for about 5 percent of Harvard graduates to work in the financial sector, according to a recent study by Harvard economists Claudia Goldin and Larry Katz. By the 1990s, that number was 15 percent. It probably climbed since then. And the proportion of those with MBAs grew as well. Economists Thomas Philippon of New York University and Ariell Reshef of the University of Virginia found that, in 1980, workers in finance earned about the same wages, on average, as workers in other sectors. By 2005, financial-sector workers earned 50 percent more than similar workers in other industries. Wages and Degrees Philippon and Reshef went on to explore what caused the surge in wages in the financial sector. They found one of the key reasons was the increasing reliance on highly educated workers with post-graduate degrees. Their results accord with anecdotal evidence concerning the hiring practice of Wall Street firms. A 2008 report in Fortune said that Goldman Sachs hired about 300 MBAs in 2007 and that, last year, Merrill Lynch and Citigroup were planning to hire 160 and 235 MBAs, respectively. Is it just a coincidence that so many superstar minds arrived on Wall Street just as it died? Perhaps not. Wall Street is gone because its firms did a terrible job assessing the risks of the positions they took. The models these firms used to evaluate risks failed. But having a failed model brings a firm down only if the firm collectively buys into the model. To do that, the firm must be run by people who have a great deal of faith in their models, and a great deal of faith in themselves. That's where Ivy Leaguers and MBAs come in. Master of Mastery What do you get from an MBA? One recent study found that MBAs acquire an enormous amount of self-confidence during their graduate education. They learn to believe that they are the best and the brightest. This narcissism has a real career impact. Psychologists at Ohio State University studied the behavior of 153 MBA students, who were put in groups of four and asked to orchestrate a large financial transaction on behalf of an imaginary company. The psychologists observed that the students who had the strongest narcissistic traits were most likely to emerge as leaders. According to Amy Brunell, the lead author, the results of the study had large implications for real-world settings, because "narcissistic leaders tend to have volatile and risky decision- making performance and can be ineffective and potentially destructive leaders." The Bathroom Test Guys like John Thain (Harvard Business School, 1979) exemplify this behavior when their sense of entitlement is so grand that they can spend a fortune renovating an office while their firm is going down in flames. The consequences of Wall Street's reckless brilliance in many ways parallel modern-day engineering disasters. If you travel through Italy, you can't help but notice the many Roman bridges that still stretch across that nation's waterways. How is it that the Romans could build bridges that would last thousands of years, while the ones we build today collapse after a few decades? The answer is simple. Back then, they did not have the fancy computers required to calculate exactly how strong a bridge must be. So an architect made a bridge very, very strong. Today, engineers can calculate exactly how much steel they need to incorporate into a bridge to bear the expected load. The result is, they are free to make them weaker. Room for Error Another result is less wiggle room for design error. Hence, modern bridge's predilection for collapsing. The same is true of the financial sector. Back when Wall Street was run by individuals without fancy degrees, they had a proper skepticism toward fancy models and managed their risks with a great deal more humility and caution. Only when failed models became canon did catastrophe strike. Wall Street didn't die in spite of being run by our best and brightest. It died because of that fact. (Kevin Hassett, director of economic-policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute, is a Bloomberg News columnist. He was an adviser to Republican SenatorJohn McCain of Arizona in the 2008 presidential election. The opinions expressed are his own.) From kaksanjay at gmail.com Thu Feb 19 12:25:23 2009 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 12:25:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Moral Policing - This happened in Bangalore In-Reply-To: References: <2FE28DAC0EF70E49B9FEC1737169AD810DC845EA25@GVW1099EXC.americas.hpqcorp.net> <4da39da60902172030l581e6276jcfc697ec341022fd@mail.gmail.com> <9f059f1a0902172108g47cf184fmf0839b3b4aaa0357@mail.gmail.com> <797a7020902180123u5958ee35lfdb6edb125bc5df5@mail.gmail.com> <70ece5300902180159w421498c9i3b639cb0b7f94309@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5c5369880902182255r22798fd9h6f6051c94d2175fd@mail.gmail.com> Forwarded, as news, and for reflection Best Sanjay http://vishshanker.sulekha.com/blog/post/2009/02/this-happened-in-bangalore-bengaluru-shocking.htm A few of my friends and I were just paying our bills and coming out of our regular Friday night watering hole and dinner place in Rest House Road, just off Brigade Road, and most of the women in the company were already standing outside. Some of us outside were smoking, people were happy, there was laughter and jokes, as there were many other people in the street, all coming out, satiated, in the closing hour of the various pubs and restaurants around. Suddenly from up the street a massive SUV comes revving and speeding, hurtling down, and stops in a scream of brakes and swirling dust, millimeters away from this group of 4 women, barely missing one of their legs. A white Audi, imported, still under transfer, with the registration plate of KA-51 TR-2767. Some millionaire's toy thing, that in the wrong hands can kill. Naturally the women are in shock. And quickly following the shock comes indignation. These are self made women running their own businesses, managing state responsibilities for global NGO firms, successful doctors. They are not used to being bullied. So they turn around, instead of shrinking back in fear. They protest. And as soon as they turn around in protest, the car doors are flung open, and a stream of 4-5 rabid men run out towards these women, screaming obscenities in Hindi and Kannada against women in general, fists flailing. Some of us who came in running at the sound of the screaming brakes now stand in the middle in defense of our women, and then blows start raining down. One of the goons make a couple of calls over the cellphone, and in seconds a stream of other equally rabid goondas land up. They gun straight for the women, and everyone – a few well-meaning bystanders, acquaintances who know us from the restaurant, basically everyone who tries to help the women – starts getting thoroughly beaten up. Women are kicked in the groin, punched in the stomach, slapped across the face, grabbed everywhere, abused constantly. Men are smashed up professionally, blows aimed at livers, groins, kidneys and nose. A friend is hit repeatedly on the head by a stone until he passes out in a flood of blood. A plain-clothes policeman (Vittal Kumar) who saunters in late stands by watching and urging people to stop, but doing absolutely nothing else. A 'cheetah' biker cop comes in, with our women pleading him to stop this madness, but he refuses action, saying a police van will come in soon and he cannot do anything. Everyone keeps getting hammered. Relentlessly. The carnage continues for over 20 minutes. Finally when the police van does come in it is this vandals who are raging and ranting, claiming to be true "sons of the Kannadiga soil", and we are positioned to be the villainous outsiders, bleeding, outraged. How do the cops believe them, especially seeing the bloody faces of our men and the violated rage of our women, while they carry nary a scratch on their bodies? Don't ask me! Yet, it is us who these goondas urge the newly arrived law-keepers to arrest, and the police promptly comply, and we are bundled into the van, some still being beaten as we are pushed in. Some blessed relief from pain inside the police van at least, even if we are inside and the real goons outside, driving alongside in their spanking white Audi. The guy who was hit by the stone is taken separately by the women to Mallya hospital. Inside the police station at Cubbon Park it becomes clear that these goons and the police know each other by their first names. The policeman in charge (Thimmappa) initially refuses to even register any complaint from me, on the purported grounds that I am not fluent in Kannada and I have taken a few drinks (3 Kingfisher pints, to be precise) over the evening. No, it doesn't matter that I didn't have my car and was not driving, and no, it doesn't mater that the complaint will be written in English. We watch them and the goons exchange smiles and nods with our our bloodied and swelling eyes and realize in our pain-clouded still-in-shock brains the extent of truth in the claim of one of the main goons when he claimed earlier in the evening in virulent aggression: we own this town, this car belongs to an MLA, we will see how you return to this street!! This was the turning point of the saga, I guess. For we refused to lie down quietly and be victims. One of our girls, a vintage and proud Bangalorean who is running one of the town's most successful organic farming initiatives, took upon herself to write the complaint, when I was not allowed to write the same. Another Bangalore girl, a state director of a global NGO firm, wrote the other molestation complaint separately on behalf of all the girls. Some of us called our friends in the media and corporate world. Everyone stepped up. And even when the odds were down and we were out, we did not give up, and as a singular body of violated citizens we spoke in one voice of courage and indomitable spirit. That voice had no limitation of language, not Kannada, nor English, or Hindi. It was the voice of human spirit that cannot be broken. And in the face of that spirit, for the first time, we saw the ugly visage of vandalism, hiding behind the thin and inadequate veil of political corrupt power, narrow-vision regionalism and self-serving morality, start to wilt. We spent 6 hours next day in the police station. The sub-inspector of police who filed our FIR, Ajay R M, seemed a breath of fresh air inasmuch that he did not appear a-priori biased like others, even though the hand of corruption and politico-criminal power backing these goons was still manifest in many ways: a starched, white-linen power-broker walked in handing over his card to the sub-inspector in support of the goons; the goons got an audience with the Inspector because of this intervention, while we had to interact one level lower down in the hierarchy; the plains cloth policeman of last night, even though he had arrived far too late in the crime scene, gave a warped statement, passing it off as a "neutral" point of view, repeatedly stressing that we came out of a pub and hence were drinking, positioning this as a 'drunken brawl', while completely forgetting to mention the unprovoked attack against the women and the one-sided vandalism and violence that ensued. I guess one cannot blame the low ranked police officer – the criminal connections of these goons must be pervasive enough for him to be careful. Thanks however to the impartial handling of the situation by Ajay, soon the goons were all identified. The lead actor was one Ravi Mallaya (38), a real estate honcho and owner of a small property off Brigade Road which he has converted into a "gaming" (you know what that means, don't you?) adda. The others identified are Mohan Basava (22) of Chamarajapet 12th Cross, R. Vijay Kumar Ramalingaraju (25) and Shivu Rajashekar (20). All are residents of 12th & 13th Cross in Vyalikaval. Their bravado and machismo were by that time evaporated. It was good to see their faces then. Of course nothing much happened to them, nor did we expect it. They were supposed to be in lock up for at least the weekend till they were produced in court, but we understand that they were quickly released on (anticipatory?) bail. The car, purportedly belonging to an MLA, also does not figure in the FIR, apparently for reasons of "irrelevance to the case".The media also have given us fantastic coverage and support so far, strengthening the cause. The goons meanwhile, as an after thought, also filed the customary reverse complaint on the morning after we filed our own complaint: the women have apparently scratched the car! (Why did they not file the complaint the same night, considering they came to the Police Station in the same car? Why was the car allowed to be taken off police custody? Why is the car still irrelevant to the case and not in the FIR? Questions.. questions..). Is this the end of this saga? Probably not. Are these women, more precious to us as friends and wives than most things in our lives, safe to walk or drive down Brigade Road from now on or are the goonda elements, slighted by this arrest and disgrace, are lying in ambush, waiting, biding their time to cause some of us more grievous harm? We don't know. Is there reason for us to remain apprehensive of future attacks and victimization? Perhaps. But here is the point. We stood up. We believed in the power of individual citizens even in the face of hooliganism, intolerance, corruption and power mongering. Even though many of us have the option of leveraging political or government connections, we deliberately chose to fight this battle as individuals. Sure, these connections have been activated and they have been kept informed, should the worst case scenario unfold tomorrow. But we have chosen to not leverage them. And in every small win we register as a group of individual outraged citizens of Bangalore and India, however insignificant these milestones may be in the larger scheme of things, there is one small notch adding up in favor of what is right, one small notch against what is wrong. And we believe that every such small notch counts, each such mark is absolutely invaluable. It is the people who make this city, this country, this world. It is you and I, as much as the terrorists inside and outside. And in our small insignificant little ways, it is my responsibility and yours to not shirk from investing effort – not just lip service or any token attempt, but real effort – in backing up what we ourselves believe in. It is so easy to logically argue that everything is corrupt, nothing is worth it, there are so many risks involved. We must not fall trap to this escapist trend. We must not fail to try. Next time you feel outraged, violated, abused, don't let it go by and add up to your list of litanies and complaints. Stand up and take it to the limit - at least your own limit. Not in the same way as they wrong you, but in the way that every citizen, at least in theory, is entitled to complain and protest. Do not let the hooligans power rant scare you or prompt you into submission. Do not allow the corrupt cop make you give up trying. Carry the flame forward. Try harder. If are up to it, start right now. Forward this note to everyone you want to be made aware of this. Post it in your own blogs. Talk about it amongst your circles. And if anyone of you should like to step forward with a word of empathy or advise, talk to me. Comment. It is not Bangalore that is going to the dogs. It is us. We have far too long become accustomed to let everything go. And the more we let things go without any protest or fight, the dormant criminal and dark elements of the society get that much more encouraged. Every time we turn the other way, the hooligan next street gets incentivized to push the boundary a little further, provoke a little more, try something a little more atrocious. It is time for us to refuse to let this go on. We are responsible for making ourselves proud. Lets believe in ourselves. We can do this. My name is Saugata Chatterjee. And I am standing up.I refuse to let Bangalore go to the hooligan slumdogs, even if some of them are pets of corrupt power millionaires. -- "Humour is anger" - Art Buchwald From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Thu Feb 19 13:15:54 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 13:15:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Vikalp@Prithvi: Celebrating Poetry on 23rd Feb 2009, starting 8 pm at Prithvi Theatre In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Vikalp at Prithvi We're celebrating our 2nd Anniversary screening at Prithvi Theatre! Do join us! *Since Feb 2007, **Vikalp at Prithvi* * has screened over 35 contemporary Indian and international documentaries and short films. We invite you to a celebration of the spirit of Vikalp, and the second anniversary of the Vikalp and Prithvi partnership. * * * *On 23rd Feb, we bring to you two films directed by Shabnam Virmani as part of the Kabir Project. The Kabir Project started in 2003 aims to bring together the experiences of a series of journeys in quest of this 15th century mystic poet in our contemporary worlds. Here we present 2 parts from a 4-film series. More to come in the near future.* * * *8 pm – 9:45 pm | **Had-Anhad** | 105 mins* *This film journeys in search of the "Ram" invoked in Kabir's poetry, delving into the heart of divisive Hindu-Muslim politics of religion and nationalism, encountering singers and lay people in India and Pakistan, probing the forces of history and politics that have created disputatiously diverse Rams, while also spawning many Kabirs.* *10 pm – 11:40 pm** | **Koi Sunta Hai** | 96 mins* *This film interweaves the oral folk traditions of Kabir in central India with the intensely personal narrative of the late classical singer Pandit Kumar Gandharva, keeping the spiritual ideas of Kabir as the central binding thread. Journeying between folk and classical, between rural and urban expressions of Kabir, the film finds moments of both continuity and rupture between these disparate worlds.** * *Shabnam Virmani director of the Kabir Project, is a documentary filmmaker and artist in residence at the Srishti School of Art, Design and Technology in Bangalore since 2002. Co-founder of the Drishti Media Arts and Human Rights collective (www.drishtimedia.org), she has directed several documentaries in close partnership with grassroots women's groups in the country. In 2002, she co-directed an award-winning community radio program with the Kutch Mahila Vikas Sangathan in Gujarat.* * * *Vikalp: Films For Freedom* *Vikalp: Films For Freedom is an action platform of over 300 Indian documentary filmmakers. The filmmakers came together as Campaign Against Censorship in response to an attempt by the Mumbai International Film Festival to impose censorship on Indian films. * *In February 2004, Mumbai became the location of an unprecedented act of cultural resistance - Vikalp: Films For Freedom - a six-day long festival of documentary films. Running parallel to MIFF 2004, Vikalp was run by the filmmakers themselves. The festival screened all the films rejected by MIFF 2004, as well as more than a dozen films withdrawn from MIFF by filmmakers whose films had been selected by the MIFF 2004 jury, in protest of the covert censorship-by-selection. Since then, Vikalp has been organizing screenings in Mumbai, Delhi, Bangalore and Calcutta. A package of Vikalp films has also traveled to festivals abroad. * * * *Having to consistently work towards the creation of 'free' spaces for the expression of varied political thoughts and ideas, Vikalp collectively takes a stand against all forms of covert and overt; state, legal and extra-legal censorship.* * * *The challenge before us today is to transform Vikalp into a movement, a sustained channel for dissemination and discussion of alternative documentary films and alternative movements that pose a vigorous threat to the forces that seek to silence dissent and marginal voices.* * * *We invite everyone, filmmakers and non-filmmakers to participate in this collective and take the movement forward.* * * *Vikalp at Prithvi screens a curated selection of documentaries and short films on the last Monday of every month at Prithvi House from 7 pm onwards. Entry to all screenings is free!* * * *For screening queries please contact Anand Patwardhan 9819882244 * ** vikalp.prithvi at gmail.com www.freedomfilmsindia.org *For more information on the three day event "Celebrating Poetry" at Prithvi Theatre starting Feb 23rd, log onto www.prithvitheatre.org We would also like you and your friends to join the Vikalp at Prithvi group on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=46819848804 * From c.anupam at gmail.com Thu Feb 19 14:26:49 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 14:26:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India In-Reply-To: <103055.88814.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <341380d00902140753y3c4713f9jed0899a27e1123d7@mail.gmail.com> <103055.88814.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <341380d00902190056j2936741fyad9e46a604ff994a@mail.gmail.com> dear kshmendra, there is nothing i feel sorry for while debating this issue with aman or you ( as you consciously decided to take a stand and debate in this particular thread). thank you very much for telling me that my contentions are ridiculous. since you consider my ideas to be ridiculous, you might as well associate words like "mean" and "erred". if these comments and subsequent reactions from my side has caused a great deal of problems for you, then i think it is unfortunate. it would have been wise on your part to stay away from this discussion, like a lot of people in this mailing list did. i request to read again what you have been writing so far. i think i have explained my position very clearly. if you like to carry on with the written duel, i would not mind. i have plenty of time to mull over these things. -anupam p.s: Kindly bludgeon me with examples. i am not someone who is used to empty threats. On 2/18/09, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > Dear Anupam > > 1. It would have been graceful if you had simply accepted that you erred in > attributing a comment to me which I had not made. Maybe that is expecting > too much from you. > > 2. Your contention is ridiculous that if I find nothing objectionable in > Aman-Shanti's comment then I am party to it. > > There are uncountable Comments/Positions that a person might not find > objectionable but that would not mean that the person is 'party to' such > Comments/Positions. Think over that because I do not want to bludgeon you > with examples. > > 3. Your comment "even, your political stand on Jamia encounters is > appreciated" seemed to be directed at me. If it was, then again you are > fantasising. I never declared any 'political stand' on the "Jamia > encounters" > > Kshmendra > > > --- On *Sat, 2/14/09, anupam chakravartty * wrote: > > > From: anupam chakravartty > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting > and threatening India > To: "sarai list" > Date: Saturday, February 14, 2009, 9:23 PM > > dear kshmendra and aman, > > In your recent comment written: > > "It was not I who wrote 'indian muslims should ask al-qaeda to stop > terror > attacks'. So your comment that you found 'my line problematic' was > a > misdirected comment. > > I personally find nothing objectionable in the 'line' that was actually > posted by Aman-Shanti: """ Indian Muslims (and everyone else) > must appeal to > Al-Qaeda and its allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in > the world." > > so logically, my misdirected comment actually hit the right spot. and as you > are now saying that there is nothing objectionable in aman shanti's > comment, > so you are also a party to it. > > to repeat what i said, earlier, the proposition that "indian muslims are > against terrorism" is a good idea. even, your political stand on Jamia > encounters is appreciated. but then what is this message you are sending in > the header: "Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening > India."? > > i personally have no problems with such initiatives but at least aman should > have used the right words.* aman's (your's too kshmendra) understanding > of > the situation after reading the header looks like indian muslims have been > inviting alqaeda all this while and now if they ask to stop it, they would > do so.* i am trying to point towards a fallacy which aman has made. you can > change it and i hope you can change your hearts also while dealing with > something so elusive and destructive as terrorism. > > and if you guys think, that you can ask anyone to adopt such an initiative > through this mailing list, then you all are wrong. i would not visit your > blog or your facebook as a sign of protest against these specific words: > "Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its allies > to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world". it is > completely upto you to change it and come up with something else. to put it > very simply: > > how's my friend abdul (being an indian muslim) connected with al-qaeda? in > what capacity should abdul, particularly (as your header > suggests), who paints and dreams of faiz and nazrul, should go to al-qaeda > and ask them to stop their acts? how is he a stakeholder? is every muslim a > stake holder in the crimes committed by a group of mujaheedins? why > should abdul be pinpointed, when all of you self-righteous peace loving > people (including me) are responsible for what has been happening in the > country? > > -anupam > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in > the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 19 14:45:39 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 01:15:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India In-Reply-To: <341380d00902190056j2936741fyad9e46a604ff994a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <383665.25036.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Anupam   You still have not shown the grace or decency to acknowledge that you have attributed comments to me that I never made.   Kshmendra   --- On Thu, 2/19/09, anupam chakravartty wrote: From: anupam chakravartty Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com, "sarai list" Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 2:26 PM dear kshmendra,   there is nothing i feel sorry for while debating this issue with aman or you ( as you consciously decided to take a stand and debate in this particular thread). thank you very much for telling me that my contentions are ridiculous. since you consider my ideas to be ridiculous, you might as well associate words like "mean" and "erred". if these comments and subsequent reactions from my side has caused a great deal of problems for you, then i think it is unfortunate. it would have been wise on your part to stay away from this discussion, like a lot of people in this mailing list did. i request to read again what you have been writing so far. i think i have explained my position very clearly. if you like to carry on with the written duel, i would not mind. i have plenty of time to mull over these things.   -anupam   p.s: Kindly bludgeon me with examples. i am not someone who is used to empty threats.       On 2/18/09, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: Dear Anupam   1. It would have been graceful if you had simply accepted that you erred in attributing a comment to me which I had not made. Maybe that is expecting too much from you.   2. Your contention is ridiculous that if I find nothing objectionable in Aman-Shanti's comment then I am party to it.    There are uncountable Comments/Positions that a person might not find objectionable but that would not mean that the person is 'party to' such Comments/Positions. Think over that because I do not want to bludgeon you with examples.   3. Your comment "even, your political stand on Jamia encounters is appreciated" seemed to be directed at me. If it was, then again you are fantasising. I never declared any 'political stand' on the "Jamia encounters"    Kshmendra   --- On Sat, 2/14/09, anupam chakravartty wrote:   From: anupam chakravartty Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India To: "sarai list" Date: Saturday, February 14, 2009, 9:23 PM dear kshmendra and aman, In your recent comment written: "It was not I who wrote 'indian muslims should ask al-qaeda to stop terror attacks'. So your comment that you found 'my line problematic' was a misdirected comment. I personally find nothing objectionable in the 'line' that was actually posted by Aman-Shanti: """ Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world." so logically, my misdirected comment actually hit the right spot. and as you are now saying that there is nothing objectionable in aman shanti's comment, so you are also a party to it. to repeat what i said, earlier, the proposition that "indian muslims are against terrorism" is a good idea. even, your political stand on Jamia encounters is appreciated. but then what is this message you are sending in the header: "Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India."? i personally have no problems with such initiatives but at least aman should have used the right words.* aman's (your's too kshmendra) understanding of the situation after reading the header looks like indian muslims have been inviting alqaeda all this while and now if they ask to stop it, they would do so.* i am trying to point towards a fallacy which aman has made. you can change it and i hope you can change your hearts also while dealing with something so elusive and destructive as terrorism. and if you guys think, that you can ask anyone to adopt such an initiative through this mailing list, then you all are wrong. i would not visit your blog or your facebook as a sign of protest against these specific words: "Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world". it is completely upto you to change it and come up with something else. to put it very simply: how's my friend abdul (being an indian muslim) connected with al-qaeda? in what capacity should abdul, particularly (as your header suggests), who paints and dreams of faiz and nazrul, should go to al-qaeda and ask them to stop their acts? how is he a stakeholder? is every muslim a stake holder in the crimes committed by a group of mujaheedins? why should abdul be pinpointed, when all of you self-righteous peace loving people (including me) are responsible for what has been happening in the country? -anupam _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Thu Feb 19 15:01:53 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 15:01:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India In-Reply-To: <383665.25036.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <341380d00902190056j2936741fyad9e46a604ff994a@mail.gmail.com> <383665.25036.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <341380d00902190131g6ed20257icda0472d4a300c32@mail.gmail.com> dear kshmendra kaul, grace and decency do not count in the post-colonial discourses. they are rather Victorian. i wasn't born then. im sorry, i cannot entertain your request. but let me point this out to you: "I personally find nothing objectionable in the 'line' that was actually posted by Aman-Shanti: """ Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world." doesnt it also mean that given a chance, you would be with the aman's line of argument? (again, dear aman, i did not drag you in this topic. kshmendra wants a reprisal) please note that my problem is with the way the readers are introduced to the topic of tackling terror with peaceful means by saying Indian Muslims and specifically pointing out one set of people while the other community which may or may not be responsible are clubbed together as "everyone". i appreciate the fact you are more prompt in replying to these posts than me, which shows your commitment to your reasoning. i so want to emulate it and perfect the art of quickly replying to a post. again with warmest regards, anupam chakravartty On 2/19/09, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > Dear Anupam > > You still have not shown the grace or decency to acknowledge that you have > attributed comments to me that I never made. > > Kshmendra > > > --- On *Thu, 2/19/09, anupam chakravartty * wrote: > > > From: anupam chakravartty > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting > and threatening India > To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com, "sarai list" > Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 2:26 PM > > dear kshmendra, > > there is nothing i feel sorry for while debating this issue with aman or > you ( as you consciously decided to take a stand and debate in this > particular thread). thank you very much for telling me that my contentions > are ridiculous. since you consider my ideas to be ridiculous, you might as > well associate words like "mean" and "erred". if these comments and > subsequent reactions from my side has caused a great deal of problems for > you, then i think it is unfortunate. it would have been wise on your part to > stay away from this discussion, like a lot of people in this mailing list > did. i request to read again what you have been writing so far. i think i > have explained my position very clearly. if you like to carry on with the > written duel, i would not mind. i have plenty of time to mull over these > things. > > -anupam > > p.s: Kindly bludgeon me with examples. i am not someone who is used to > empty threats. > > > > > > On 2/18/09, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: >> >> Dear Anupam >> >> 1. It would have been graceful if you had simply accepted that you erred >> in attributing a comment to me which I had not made. Maybe that is expecting >> too much from you. >> >> 2. Your contention is ridiculous that if I find nothing objectionable in >> Aman-Shanti's comment then I am party to it. >> >> There are uncountable Comments/Positions that a person might not find >> objectionable but that would not mean that the person is 'party to' such >> Comments/Positions. Think over that because I do not want to bludgeon you >> with examples. >> >> 3. Your comment "even, your political stand on Jamia encounters is >> appreciated" seemed to be directed at me. If it was, then again you are >> fantasising. I never declared any 'political stand' on the "Jamia >> encounters" >> >> Kshmendra >> >> >> --- On *Sat, 2/14/09, anupam chakravartty * wrote: >> >> >> From: anupam chakravartty >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting >> and threatening India >> To: "sarai list" >> Date: Saturday, February 14, 2009, 9:23 PM >> >> dear kshmendra and aman, >> >> In your recent comment written: >> >> "It was not I who wrote 'indian muslims should ask al-qaeda to stop >> terror >> attacks'. So your comment that you found 'my line problematic' was >> a >> misdirected comment. >> >> I personally find nothing objectionable in the 'line' that was actually >> posted by Aman-Shanti: """ Indian Muslims (and everyone else) >> must appeal to >> Al-Qaeda and its allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in >> the world." >> >> so logically, my misdirected comment actually hit the right spot. and as you >> are now saying that there is nothing objectionable in aman shanti's >> comment, >> so you are also a party to it. >> >> to repeat what i said, earlier, the proposition that "indian muslims are >> against terrorism" is a good idea. even, your political stand on Jamia >> encounters is appreciated. but then what is this message you are sending in >> the header: "Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening >> India."? >> >> i personally have no problems with such initiatives but at least aman should >> have used the right words.* aman's (your's too kshmendra) understanding >> of >> the situation after reading the header looks like indian muslims have been >> inviting alqaeda all this while and now if they ask to stop it, they would >> do so.* i am trying to point towards a fallacy which aman has made. you can >> change it and i hope you can change your hearts also while dealing with >> something so elusive and destructive as terrorism. >> >> and if you guys think, that you can ask anyone to adopt such an initiative >> through this mailing list, then you all are wrong. i would not visit your >> blog or your facebook as a sign of protest against these specific words: >> "Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its allies >> to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world". it is >> completely upto you to change it and come up with something else. to put it >> very simply: >> >> how's my friend abdul (being an indian muslim) connected with al-qaeda? in >> what capacity should abdul, particularly (as your header >> suggests), who paints and dreams of faiz and nazrul, should go to al-qaeda >> and ask them to stop their acts? how is he a stakeholder? is every muslim a >> stake holder in the crimes committed by a group of mujaheedins? why >> should abdul be pinpointed, when all of you self-righteous peace loving >> people (including me) are responsible for what has been happening in the >> country? >> >> -anupam >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in >> the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > > > > From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 19 15:28:45 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 01:58:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] The Sufi with the Kalashnikov In-Reply-To: <6353c690902152152xabb4a03o36314274371c9da8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <943778.30959.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Praveen Swami is often reviled by some on suspicion of having an 'agenda' and with a questioning of his 'investigative journalism' credentials. Presumably it is done because of the subjects he picks up (security; jihadis, pakistan etc).   I found very interesting the concluding comments by Parveen Swami in the article.   In my opinion, the intial words are an oversimplified generalisation (and an incorrect one) based on Parveen Swami's conclusions from one Jihadist case of Abdul Jabbar.    Swami wrote:   """""" Jabbar's story demonstrates that the roots of the jihadist movement lie neither in scripture nor particular right-wing renderings of the faith. Like other jihadists, Jabbar turned to the jihad because of the lived experience of communal conflict — not a theoretical understanding of the imperatives of Islam.""""""   I totally agree with the final words of Praveen Swami (edited by me):   """"""" Even the most plural and tolerant faith-systems ........are unlikely to survive in the crucible of communal hatred. Secular political formations and the Indian state will have to find a language with which to meet the challenge."""""""   Kshmendra --- On Mon, 2/16/09, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: From: Aditya Raj Kaul Subject: [Reader-list] The Sufi with the Kalashnikov To: "sarai list" Date: Monday, February 16, 2009, 11:22 AM * The Sufi with the Kalashnikov * Praveen Swami Link - http://www.hindu.com/2009/02/16/stories/2009021653740800.htm r * Abdul Jabbar's bizarre journey from a roadside restaurant to a Lashkar terror camp casts new light on the jihad in India. * More likely than not, Abdul Jabbar would have encountered the poetry of 13th century mystic poet Ibn al-Arabi in the Sufi order which shaped his life. "I profess the religion of love," al-Arabi wrote, "and wherever its caravan turns along the way, that is the way the faith I keep." Jabbar's own journey led him from a small north Kerala town, through a roadside restaurant, secret circle of Sufis, and an Islamist terror cell to a Lashkar-e-Taiba terror unit in the mountains of Jammu and Kashmir — a Kalashnikov in his hands. For chroniclers of India's jihadist movement, his bizarre story has particular significance. Most members of the Indian Mujahideen's networks were drawn from groups like the Students Islamic Movement of India or neoconservative religious orders. But Jabbar and the group of Kerala jihadists he was a part of emerged from the Noorisha tariqah — a prominent Sufi order of the Chishti-Qadri tradition, famous for its emphasis on openness and love. Born in May 1973 into a working class family from northern Kerala's Puruthur town, Jabbar dropped out of school in the fifth grade. At just 13 years of age, he began work as a parantha cook at a roadside hotel. His father, Kunzhi Bavanu, still runs a small tea stall in Puruthur; one brother, Abdul Samad, is a fitter, while the other, Abdul Hakeem, an autorickshaw driver. Back in the late 1980s, the Malappuram region was in the midst of a small-scale communal war which pitted the cadre of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh and the charismatic Islamist leader Abdul Nasser Maudhany's Islamic Sevak Sangh against each other. Jabbar was among hundreds of angry young men who found meaning in Maudhany's inflammatory polemic, and went on to become a vice-president of his party's Malappuram unit. In 1998, Maudhany was arrested on charges of providing logistical support to the serial bombings in Coimbatore — of which he was only recently acquitted. Pursued by the police, many of his supporters fled Kerala. During his time underground, Jabbar came into close contact with Maudhany's followers linked to the Noorisha order: Kannur resident Abdul Sattar and his long-standing associate Tadiyantavide Nasir. Like Jabbar, Sattar and Nasir had cut their political teeth in Malappuram's street wars. Police investigators believe that the men, who are alleged to have been involved in an abortive plot to assassinate the former Kerala Chief Minister, E.K. Nayanar, executed the July 2008 serial bombings in Bangalore, and supplied components for the improvised explosive devices used by top terror operative Riyaz Bhatkal for the Indian Mujahideen's murderous attacks in Andhra Pradesh and Gujarat. Nasir, using the alias Haji Omar, had established himself as an *ustad* — or instructor — of students at the Noorisha order's headquarters in Hyderabad. The Jamia Arifiya Nooriya seminary sprawls across a 40-acre campus, housing a free school and the al-Arif Unani General Hospital. Thousands of people attend the order's 40-day *Chilla*, a spiritual course intended to help adherents overcome physical and material desire. Made up in the main of Kerala residents, the Noorisha order is among the inheritors of a unique tradition of Islam. Folk tradition in Kerala has it that king Cheraman Perumal Bhaskara Ravi Varma, on witnessing a miraculous split-moon in the skies, travelled to Saudi Arabia where he was converted to Islam by Prophet Mohammad himself. In some tellings of this legend, Varma took on the name Tajuddin and married the sister of the king of Jeddah. After Varma's death, the story goes, a spice trader named Malik bin-Dinar returned to Kondangaloor, bearing a letter from Verma which led to a local temple being converted into a mosque dedicated to the king's memory. The Cheraman Jama Masjid, reputed to be over 1,370 years old, still stands — in the Hindu tradition, facing east. Nasir had little time for the Noorisha order's spiritual legacy — or its syncretic concerns. He argued that the rise of the Hindu right, and worldwide atrocities on Muslims, made armed jihad a religious imperative. Most clerics at the Jamia Arifiya Nooriya found Nasir's position unacceptable — but he had the support of Abdul Kader, an influential Noorisha *ustad* known among the order as Abdu Ustad. 1960-born Kader, police sources say, first started visiting the Noorisha seminary in 1996, for treatment of a psychiatric disorder. Later, he gave his daughter in marriage to Sattar. Sattar, in turn, helped draw Jabbar into the jihadist circle among the Noorisha. Married twice — first to Zeenath Ibrahim, by whom he has a 12-year-old son, and then Ramola Mohammad, who gave him two more sons, two-year-old Salahuddin and six-year-old Mukhtar — Jabbar was beset by financial and legal problems. Zeenath had filed a criminal complaint against Jabbar for dowry harassment, and moved the court for maintenance. Sattar arranged for Jabbar to marry again, this time his sister-in-law, Nasia Moinuddin, to help him rebuild his life in Hyderabad. Jabbar was to have two daughters with Moinuddin: Aasiya, who is now three and Zainabi, who was born last year. Sattar also helped Jabbar find work — and arranged for him to take on Kader as his spiritual mentor. Behind the façade of this new life, Jabbar continued to pursue his old jihadist path. He was among five Noorisha-linked men from Kerala who joined a ten-man Lahskar unit in the mountains above Kupwara, along the Line of Control, on the morning of September 16, 2008. In the next few weeks, the men were put through gruelling combat-fitness drills, and taught to use assault weapons and explosives. Long before their training ended, though, the Jammu and Kashmir Police, backed by Indian Army troops, arrived to put their skills to the test. Four of the men Jabbar travelled with were killed. He hid out in the forests all night, before beginning his journey home — where the police were waiting. "Those who distort the meaning of jihad," the supreme leader of the Noorisha order, Sayyid Muhammad Arifuddin Jeelani, said in a recent interview, "will certainly go to hell." For the most part, public commentary on Islamist terrorism in India has cast Sufi Islam as inherently opposed to jihadist violence. In part because the aesthetic of ascetic spiritual traditions — Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Jewish and even Christian — has become fashionable among metropolitan liberals, Sufi practices have been cast as inherently hostile to the Islamist project. But like other religious systems, Sufi mysticism can — witness the recent fighting in Iraq, Central Asia and Pakistan — provide legitimacy to violence. In the dying decades of the Mughal empire, the influential Sufi mystic, Shah Waliullah, called on the warlord, Ahmad Shah Abdali, to wage war against the Jats and the Marathas, arguing that it was "predestined that unbelievers should be reduced to a state of humiliation." Sayyid Ahmad — whose failed 1831 jihad against Maharaja Ranjit Singh's empire inspired the founding of the Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadis from which the Lashkar draws its ideological legitimacy — was also a mystic. Hassan al-Banna, the founder of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood — the seed from which much of the modern jihadist movement was born — was profoundly influenced by the work of 12th century mystic Abu Hamid Muhammad al-Ghazali. Although al-Banna rejected al-Ghazali's theological convictions, scholars have noted that elements of the practices of the Sufi brotherhoods continue to suffuse organisations such as the al-Qaeda — practices like the swearing of a bayat, or oath, to its sheikh, Osama bin-Laden Pakistan has seen Sufi orders adopt jihadist tactics to counter their neoconservative theological rivals. In 1997, Sufi leader Allama Pir Mohammad Saeed Ahmad Mujadidi set up the Sunni Jihad Council to fight in Jammu and Kashmir. Speaking to the Gujranwala-based magazine *Dawat-e-Tanzim ul-Islam*in March 1999, SJC military commander Saeed Raza Bukhari said that the decision was taken because "certain people have used jihad to propagate their false creeds in Kashmir." In India, members of the mystic Deendar Anjuman order executed a series of 12 bombings in 2000. Deendar founder Siddiq Husain — who outraged conservatives by claiming to be the incarnation of the Lingayat-caste saint Channabasaveswara — sought to rebuild his legitimacy among Hyderabad's Muslim elites by setting up a military training centre in 1939. Husain marketed his jihadist organisation, the Tehreek Jamiat-i-Hizbullah, as an instrument with which pre-independence Hyderabad would be able to resist both the Hindu chauvinist Arya Samaj, as well as a growing Communist insurgency. Police investigators found that Zia-ul-Hassan, Siddiq Husain's Pakistan-based son, used the old Tehreek Jamiat-i-Hizbullah to execute the 2000 bombings, which were marketed as retaliation against Christian and Hindu atrocities. Jabbar's story demonstrates that the roots of the jihadist movement lie neither in scripture nor particular right-wing renderings of the faith. Like other jihadists, Jabbar turned to the jihad because of the lived experience of communal conflict — not a theoretical understanding of the imperatives of Islam. Even the most plural and tolerant faith-systems, his story makes clear, are unlikely to survive in the crucible of communal hatred. Secular political formations and the Indian state will have to find a language with which to meet the challenge. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 19 15:49:46 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 02:19:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India In-Reply-To: <341380d00902190131g6ed20257icda0472d4a300c32@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <844185.43348.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Anupam   1. I made no request to you (your fantasising again). I simply pointed out a fact. For you to rectify or not an error is for your own ethics (or lack of it) to dictate to you.   2. It explains a lot about you and thank you for stating that 'grace' and 'decency' are the two human attributes that you are not infected with. Your particular genome seems to have mutated such that the chromosomes for Reason/Rationality also got shed someplace.   I am done with you (for now). You are welcome to coming up with one more harangue.   Kshmendra   --- On Thu, 2/19/09, anupam chakravartty wrote: From: anupam chakravartty Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com, "sarai list" Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 3:01 PM dear kshmendra kaul,   grace and decency do not count in the post-colonial discourses. they are rather Victorian. i wasn't born then. im sorry, i cannot entertain your request.   but let me point this out to you:   "I personally find nothing objectionable in the 'line' that was actually posted by Aman-Shanti: """ Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world."  doesnt it also mean that given a chance, you would be with the aman's line of argument? (again, dear aman, i did not drag you in this topic. kshmendra wants a reprisal)  please note that my problem is with the way the readers are introduced to the topic of tackling terror with peaceful means by saying Indian Muslims and specifically pointing out one set of people while the other community which may or may not be responsible are clubbed together as "everyone".   i appreciate the fact you are more prompt in replying to these posts than me, which shows your commitment to your reasoning. i so want to emulate it and perfect the art of quickly replying to a post.   again with warmest regards, anupam chakravartty       On 2/19/09, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: Dear Anupam   You still have not shown the grace or decency to acknowledge that you have attributed comments to me that I never made.   Kshmendra   --- On Thu, 2/19/09, anupam chakravartty wrote:   From: anupam chakravartty Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com, "sarai list" Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 2:26 PM dear kshmendra,   there is nothing i feel sorry for while debating this issue with aman or you ( as you consciously decided to take a stand and debate in this particular thread). thank you very much for telling me that my contentions are ridiculous. since you consider my ideas to be ridiculous, you might as well associate words like "mean" and "erred". if these comments and subsequent reactions from my side has caused a great deal of problems for you, then i think it is unfortunate. it would have been wise on your part to stay away from this discussion, like a lot of people in this mailing list did. i request to read again what you have been writing so far. i think i have explained my position very clearly. if you like to carry on with the written duel, i would not mind. i have plenty of time to mull over these things.   -anupam   p.s: Kindly bludgeon me with examples. i am not someone who is used to empty threats.       On 2/18/09, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: Dear Anupam   1. It would have been graceful if you had simply accepted that you erred in attributing a comment to me which I had not made. Maybe that is expecting too much from you.   2. Your contention is ridiculous that if I find nothing objectionable in Aman-Shanti's comment then I am party to it.    There are uncountable Comments/Positions that a person might not find objectionable but that would not mean that the person is 'party to' such Comments/Positions. Think over that because I do not want to bludgeon you with examples.   3. Your comment "even, your political stand on Jamia encounters is appreciated" seemed to be directed at me. If it was, then again you are fantasising. I never declared any 'political stand' on the "Jamia encounters"    Kshmendra   --- On Sat, 2/14/09, anupam chakravartty wrote:   From: anupam chakravartty Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India To: "sarai list" Date: Saturday, February 14, 2009, 9:23 PM dear kshmendra and aman, In your recent comment written: "It was not I who wrote 'indian muslims should ask al-qaeda to stop terror attacks'. So your comment that you found 'my line problematic' was a misdirected comment. I personally find nothing objectionable in the 'line' that was actually posted by Aman-Shanti: """ Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world." so logically, my misdirected comment actually hit the right spot. and as you are now saying that there is nothing objectionable in aman shanti's comment, so you are also a party to it. to repeat what i said, earlier, the proposition that "indian muslims are against terrorism" is a good idea. even, your political stand on Jamia encounters is appreciated. but then what is this message you are sending in the header: "Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India."? i personally have no problems with such initiatives but at least aman should have used the right words.* aman's (your's too kshmendra) understanding of the situation after reading the header looks like indian muslims have been inviting alqaeda all this while and now if they ask to stop it, they would do so.* i am trying to point towards a fallacy which aman has made. you can change it and i hope you can change your hearts also while dealing with something so elusive and destructive as terrorism. and if you guys think, that you can ask anyone to adopt such an initiative through this mailing list, then you all are wrong. i would not visit your blog or your facebook as a sign of protest against these specific words: "Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world". it is completely upto you to change it and come up with something else. to put it very simply: how's my friend abdul (being an indian muslim) connected with al-qaeda? in what capacity should abdul, particularly (as your header suggests), who paints and dreams of faiz and nazrul, should go to al-qaeda and ask them to stop their acts? how is he a stakeholder? is every muslim a stake holder in the crimes committed by a group of mujaheedins? why should abdul be pinpointed, when all of you self-righteous peace loving people (including me) are responsible for what has been happening in the country? -anupam _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>   From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 19 16:43:26 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 03:13:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "Kashmiri Pandits fear dream may turn sour" Message-ID: <631393.4965.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I feel personally slighted by this news item.   It has always been my belief that the right place for the Kashmiri Pandit for the purposes of continuation of the Kashmiri Pandit identity is in Kashmir. I still believe that.   This news item saddens me   Kshmendra     Kashmiri Pandits fear dream may turn sour Seema Sharma Tribune News Service   "Kashmiri Pandits fear dream may turn sour" Seema Sharma Tribune News Service   Jammu, February 17 Expectation is running high among around 10,000 migrant Kashmiri Pandits, who filled in consent forms to return to their homeland in the Kashmir valley in April last year under the Prime Minister’s package for their return and rehabilitation, amid fear whether conditions are conducive.   The three families, which returned to the valley and tried to live in their homes there, had to return humiliated by people and authorities.   Yogesh Kandhari, who took voluntary retirement from Deccan Aviation to settle down in his home in the Habba Kadal area of Srinagar a year ago, returned to Jammu unhappy and dejected within a year.   His dreams got shattered when he found a part of his house and a shop encroached.   Kandhari says, “Last year, I went back to Habba Kadal with my family in a hope to spend the remaining part of my life at my birth place. But I was shocked to see a large part of my house encroached upon by my neighbour. Somebody also broke open one of my three shops and occupied it. It took me one year running from one office to another to retrieve the rights of my properties. I was able to get my house vacated, but my shop was handed over to the intruder. Aghast over the sickening attitude of people there, I returned to Jammu to find peace of mind.”   Pushkar Razdan, a retired teacher at Pulwama, has not been even that lucky. He saw his house taken over by the state police and farms invaded by local people.   He lamented, “Expensive walnut trees in my orchards were felled and stolen by some people. A 32 feet road was drawn across my fields without my permission. My house was taken over by the state police, which created a police post there after the infamous Vandhama mass killing case. The police even refused to pay me rent. Now, the matter has got stuck with the Home Ministry. Ultimately, I had to leave my home in the valley.”   Equally distraught is Triloki Nath Bhatt, a resident of Monghama, who is physically challenged with a twisted arm by birth, to see that his own people have become estranged to him.   “When I went back this year to reconstruct my ruined home in Monghama to make it worth living, I was restrained by people and the local administration. I was aghast to know that I can’t carry out construction at my place. This shows people who keep an eye on profitable properties never want us to return.” He too returned empty-handed and disheartened.     http://www.tribuneindia.com/2009/20090218/j&k.htm#3   From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Feb 19 17:24:32 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 17:24:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Dear_Omar_=96_hope_you_remember_us?= In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70902160723t6b4710ck4e6ee0cad0b551b8@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70902160723t6b4710ck4e6ee0cad0b551b8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902190354j60c09168jf6865bef763f867d@mail.gmail.com> Dear Omar – hope you remember us : Contributed by Ms Preeti Dear Omar (Abdullah please and not Omar Farooq), As one of your contemporaries, I will take the liberty of addressing you by your first name and not as the honourable CM or any of the official titles. I write to you as a fellow Kashmiri whose ancestors shared the same land, air and water as yours. But somewhere I seem to have lost the right over the place while you have achieved the highest office in land. As an Indian and a Kashmiri I was thrilled to see someone like you take the oath of office of the CM, rather than a rabble rousing ranter. The gods of Kashmir seem to be finally listening. Though you might know and be aware of the existence of the community of Kashmiri Pandits, I don't know how many of the current generation of the Valley are aware that such people did live alongwith their ancestors not so many years back. For their information I will add a few details about the community. Kashmiri Pandits are Hindus (all of them Saraswat Brahmins) whose generations were the early habitants of the Valley. Sparing the detailed historical tomes over here, the Kashmiri Pandits or KPs as they are called for short, suffered a series of religious persecutions over centuries. Yet to the surprise of everyone they managed to survive and achieve a high-level of erudition, both at the scholastic and spiritual levels. However as history teaches us, smartness doesn't always lead to success. Continuous years of persecution created a shift in demographics against us pushing us to lose our religion and culture. However being a very stubborn and at times a very arrogant race, the Kashmiri Pandits decided to fight back on ways to preserve their way of life. Read the complete article by clicking below link http://thekashmir.wordpress.com/2009/02/16/dear-omar-%e2%80%93-hope-you-remember-us/ From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Feb 19 17:26:45 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 17:26:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 'Not a single muslim forced us to leave' Prof Tikko In-Reply-To: <4fcaee300902180443o7553005ar2c0ac66ee3a2cb6e@mail.gmail.com> References: <4fcaee300902180443o7553005ar2c0ac66ee3a2cb6e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902190356p3a2496bbs6c161e18c8ee6116@mail.gmail.com> I have a friend by the name Imam, whenever he goes to a pub with me ....he calls himself Sameer. God Bless On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Wali Arifi wrote: > Since we have been reading only one version of Kashmiri Pandit story in the > larger narrative of the Kashmir dispute, here is a glimpse into another > version. > > > > http://www.kashmirwatch.com/showexclusives.php?subaction=showfull&id=1234974634&archive=&start_from=&ucat=15&var1news=value1news > > 'Not a single muslim forced us to leave' Prof Tikko > > * > Two decades of Exile* > > Manohar Nath Tickoo > > Professor Manohar Nath Tikko, 74, was a college teacher and head of the > department of Education at the Governmnt College Islamabad. He lived in > Haire Mohalla, Janglat Mandi in Anantnag before he left Kashmir at the peak > of insurgency in 1990. For the last two decades, he is living at the > scorching locale of Bohdi in Jammu . > > Q1) What prompted your migration? > > I left with my family on Friday, 31st May 1990 with the first light in the > dawn and reached Jammu same day in the early afternoon. I still remember > that fateful day when I was forced by none other than my own wife and > daughters to leave. All my Muslim neighbours came to my home biding my > family a fond farewell with tearful eyes. Me and my neighbours never wanted > my family to leave Kashmir but there was definitely a massive psychological > fear created by unknown agencies against the Kashmiri Pandits which forced > us to leave. Although the fact remains that not a single Muslim forced > us > to leave. > > Q2) Do you nurture any dreams of coming back? > > A:- Well, I do believe that Pundits will get back to their home land but I > can't predict a time for it. However, I don't not believe the Central > [Indian] or [local] State government claims that the Pandits will be > rehabilitated in their original homes. This is a blatant lie, as there > hasn't been any strategy for our rehabilitation since we have left the > Valley. The past governments did built some residential houses at places > like Tulmul, Budgam and Mattan, but I believe this was for electoral > politics. > > Q3) There are many examples of Pandits returning back. Could you perhaps > follow the suit? > > A:- No I am sorry. I don't hesitate to tell u a stark fact that I would > feel > emotionally insulted if I return back to my home this time because we left > our mother land without any force from our fellow people. I believe that > Kashmiri Pundits should have remained in the Valley and they must have > fought the freedom struggle with their fellow Muslim citizens. Even we > should have sacrificed in the similar fashion our Muslim brothers did for > the Kashmir cause, but unfortunately we did not do that. Even I wouldn't > mind if hundred thousand Kashmir Pundits would have been martyred for > freedom struggle because Kashmir cause has no less a meaning for Kashmiri > Pundits. It is bizarre when we "Kashmir Pundits" vociferously beat the > drums, searching for "Panun Kashmir", ironically outside the Kashmir , > therefore it has literally lost its spirit and meaning.. > > Q4) How do you view the Kashmir problem? > > A:- Kashmir is a very old issue which has mutated into a monster now. But > it > can be solved by sincere and honest leadership in India , Pakistan and > Kashmir . Gimmicks like holding elections cannot be used to fade the > reality of Kashmir being an unresolved issue. Holding election in the > presence of half a million troops shows the level of legitimacy and the > feigned democratic nature in Kashmir . > My personal opinion is that Kashmir issue is the issue of those who speak > Kashmiri language. It should not be hyphenated or related to the other > parts > like Jammu and Ladakh; they have never been a relative part of Kashmir > and > had never any cultural, ethnic or communication links with Kashmir . > Kashmir has its own history and it should be recognized as an independent > state. It had never been a part of India or British India . > > Q5) Would the Kashmiri Pandits accept independent Kashmir ? > > A:- well, not necessarily. I am expressing my opinion without any bias and > duality. The opinions are never same even on a common issue. Let me tell > you that majority of Pandits did not support Sheikh Abdullah but the Ahrar > Party of Moulvi Yousuf Shah. Well know Pandit activists Prem Nath Bazaz > and Prem Nath Yash were in favour of Kashmir's accession with Pakistan . > I > still remember that time when people were asked to opt between India and > Pakistan . My late father Sarvanand Tikko who was the Post Master at > Anantnag at that time and we used to live inside the Post Office, signed on > the document favouring accession with Pakistan and his four collogues > including Ghulam Muhammad Shah of Bijbehra and Jagan Nath Rayess. My late > father unfurled the Pakistani flag on the top of the Post Office but the > goons of National Conference which include Abdul Ahad Tak of Anantnag town > made an assault on my father and his colleagues, beat them to pulp and put > down the Pakistani flag. They also tried to set the Post Office on fire. > > Q6) Many Kashmiris often refer to Sheikh Abdullah as 'Gaddar' or traiter. > How do you view him? > 9 > A:- well, It is easy to be wise after the event. Sheikh Abdullah should > have > not done the "Ilhaq" or accession with India . He did a very serious > blunder > for the reason that kashmiri people are suffering a lot. Sadly Sheikh > Abdullah had no political vision. Prem Nath Bazaz observed that Sheikh > Abdullah had no sense of history and he had never read any history on > Kashmir . So one can understand the level of political maturity and > sincerity of Sheikh Abdullah. > > Q7) The Pandit argument is that Kashmir has always been part of India ? > > Kashmir has never been part of India and has no cultural, traditional, > ethical and religious semblance with India . Even we Kashmiri Pundits > have > totally different religious ceremonial and ritual days than of the Indian > Hindus and we practice a different mythology. We have no religious > attachment with river Ganga ; we used to put the ashes of the dead into the > "Naraan Nag Gangbal" near Sonamarg . We never celebrate Diwali but > "Hearath". We celebrate a religious day which is called "Sheshar Shenkraat" > which is celebrated in the winters in order to avoid demonic influence in > winters and there is no example of celebrating such a day in the Indian > Hindu mythology. Moreover, Kashmiri Pundits celebrate "Shiv Raatri" > differently than Indian Hindus; we prepare a lot of non vegetarian food to > break the fast, contrary to Hindus who abstain from meat on the day. > Similarly Kashmiri Muslims have a different culture with no relevance with > that of Indian culture. Politically, the UN resolutions stand witness to > the Kashmir dispute and promises the right to self determination. Had > Kashmir not been a disputed state then why Kashmir has its own constitution > and flag. And why Pundit Jawahar Lal Nehru took the Kashmir issue to the > United Nations. It was only because of Indian political prejudice and > insincerity that autonomy of Kashmir was eroded. > > Q 8) How would you see the contours of its resolution? > > A:- Well, Kashmir is a much political issue than a religious one. Kashmir > has suffered because of a historical political mistake so the key to its > resolution is strong political struggle which is possible only when we have > strong political institutions with sincere leaders having unanimity on the > common Kashmir cause. > So far we have failed on diplomatic and international level only because of > the poor and corrupt leadership. It is imperative to coordinate the > political groups and bring them under one banner and one single leader. I > would suggest Sayed Sayed Ali Shah Geelani who has shown strength and > resilience while others change their cloaks often. But there has to be > inclusion of Pandits in the political leadership. > > Q10) How would you place Article 370 in this jigsaw puzzle? > > A:- The Article 370 has no future unless it does not get a permanent place > in the Indian Constitution. Since the Article 370 is a temporary Article, > it can be abrogated any time by the parliament of India and BJP has > included the abrogation of Article 370 in its election manifesto. I think > we > Kashmiris should have fought vigorously for the permanence of the Article > 370. Since the Article 370 is followed with the word "Temporary" has no > meaning unless it does not get divorce from it. Moreover, the Indian > leadership has always failed to give the due share to the Kashmiris in > their > democratic doctrines as established in 1950. > > Q12) How do you see the future of Kashmir ? > > A:- We must pin hope against hope on the fourth generation after 1947 who > can give respite to Kashmiris if they succeed to apply their brains > properly. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Feb 19 17:45:41 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 17:45:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 'Not a single muslim forced us to leave' Prof Tikko In-Reply-To: <4fcaee300902180443o7553005ar2c0ac66ee3a2cb6e@mail.gmail.com> References: <4fcaee300902180443o7553005ar2c0ac66ee3a2cb6e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690902190415y63875ea1r33ae11f995b9d31a@mail.gmail.com> 'Kashmir Watch'... Operated from Pakistan by an Ex-Terrorist. Need I say more. On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Wali Arifi wrote: > Since we have been reading only one version of Kashmiri Pandit story in the > larger narrative of the Kashmir dispute, here is a glimpse into another > version. > > > > http://www.kashmirwatch.com/showexclusives.php?subaction=showfull&id=1234974634&archive=&start_from=&ucat=15&var1news=value1news > > 'Not a single muslim forced us to leave' Prof Tikko > > * > Two decades of Exile* > > Manohar Nath Tickoo > > Professor Manohar Nath Tikko, 74, was a college teacher and head of the > department of Education at the Governmnt College Islamabad. He lived in > Haire Mohalla, Janglat Mandi in Anantnag before he left Kashmir at the peak > of insurgency in 1990. For the last two decades, he is living at the > scorching locale of Bohdi in Jammu . > > Q1) What prompted your migration? > > I left with my family on Friday, 31st May 1990 with the first light in the > dawn and reached Jammu same day in the early afternoon. I still remember > that fateful day when I was forced by none other than my own wife and > daughters to leave. All my Muslim neighbours came to my home biding my > family a fond farewell with tearful eyes. Me and my neighbours never wanted > my family to leave Kashmir but there was definitely a massive psychological > fear created by unknown agencies against the Kashmiri Pandits which forced > us to leave. Although the fact remains that not a single Muslim forced > us > to leave. > > Q2) Do you nurture any dreams of coming back? > > A:- Well, I do believe that Pundits will get back to their home land but I > can't predict a time for it. However, I don't not believe the Central > [Indian] or [local] State government claims that the Pandits will be > rehabilitated in their original homes. This is a blatant lie, as there > hasn't been any strategy for our rehabilitation since we have left the > Valley. The past governments did built some residential houses at places > like Tulmul, Budgam and Mattan, but I believe this was for electoral > politics. > > Q3) There are many examples of Pandits returning back. Could you perhaps > follow the suit? > > A:- No I am sorry. I don't hesitate to tell u a stark fact that I would > feel > emotionally insulted if I return back to my home this time because we left > our mother land without any force from our fellow people. I believe that > Kashmiri Pundits should have remained in the Valley and they must have > fought the freedom struggle with their fellow Muslim citizens. Even we > should have sacrificed in the similar fashion our Muslim brothers did for > the Kashmir cause, but unfortunately we did not do that. Even I wouldn't > mind if hundred thousand Kashmir Pundits would have been martyred for > freedom struggle because Kashmir cause has no less a meaning for Kashmiri > Pundits. It is bizarre when we "Kashmir Pundits" vociferously beat the > drums, searching for "Panun Kashmir", ironically outside the Kashmir , > therefore it has literally lost its spirit and meaning.. > > Q4) How do you view the Kashmir problem? > > A:- Kashmir is a very old issue which has mutated into a monster now. But > it > can be solved by sincere and honest leadership in India , Pakistan and > Kashmir . Gimmicks like holding elections cannot be used to fade the > reality of Kashmir being an unresolved issue. Holding election in the > presence of half a million troops shows the level of legitimacy and the > feigned democratic nature in Kashmir . > My personal opinion is that Kashmir issue is the issue of those who speak > Kashmiri language. It should not be hyphenated or related to the other > parts > like Jammu and Ladakh; they have never been a relative part of Kashmir > and > had never any cultural, ethnic or communication links with Kashmir . > Kashmir has its own history and it should be recognized as an independent > state. It had never been a part of India or British India . > > Q5) Would the Kashmiri Pandits accept independent Kashmir ? > > A:- well, not necessarily. I am expressing my opinion without any bias and > duality. The opinions are never same even on a common issue. Let me tell > you that majority of Pandits did not support Sheikh Abdullah but the Ahrar > Party of Moulvi Yousuf Shah. Well know Pandit activists Prem Nath Bazaz > and Prem Nath Yash were in favour of Kashmir's accession with Pakistan . > I > still remember that time when people were asked to opt between India and > Pakistan . My late father Sarvanand Tikko who was the Post Master at > Anantnag at that time and we used to live inside the Post Office, signed on > the document favouring accession with Pakistan and his four collogues > including Ghulam Muhammad Shah of Bijbehra and Jagan Nath Rayess. My late > father unfurled the Pakistani flag on the top of the Post Office but the > goons of National Conference which include Abdul Ahad Tak of Anantnag town > made an assault on my father and his colleagues, beat them to pulp and put > down the Pakistani flag. They also tried to set the Post Office on fire. > > Q6) Many Kashmiris often refer to Sheikh Abdullah as 'Gaddar' or traiter. > How do you view him? > 9 > A:- well, It is easy to be wise after the event. Sheikh Abdullah should > have > not done the "Ilhaq" or accession with India . He did a very serious > blunder > for the reason that kashmiri people are suffering a lot. Sadly Sheikh > Abdullah had no political vision. Prem Nath Bazaz observed that Sheikh > Abdullah had no sense of history and he had never read any history on > Kashmir . So one can understand the level of political maturity and > sincerity of Sheikh Abdullah. > > Q7) The Pandit argument is that Kashmir has always been part of India ? > > Kashmir has never been part of India and has no cultural, traditional, > ethical and religious semblance with India . Even we Kashmiri Pundits > have > totally different religious ceremonial and ritual days than of the Indian > Hindus and we practice a different mythology. We have no religious > attachment with river Ganga ; we used to put the ashes of the dead into the > "Naraan Nag Gangbal" near Sonamarg . We never celebrate Diwali but > "Hearath". We celebrate a religious day which is called "Sheshar Shenkraat" > which is celebrated in the winters in order to avoid demonic influence in > winters and there is no example of celebrating such a day in the Indian > Hindu mythology. Moreover, Kashmiri Pundits celebrate "Shiv Raatri" > differently than Indian Hindus; we prepare a lot of non vegetarian food to > break the fast, contrary to Hindus who abstain from meat on the day. > Similarly Kashmiri Muslims have a different culture with no relevance with > that of Indian culture. Politically, the UN resolutions stand witness to > the Kashmir dispute and promises the right to self determination. Had > Kashmir not been a disputed state then why Kashmir has its own constitution > and flag. And why Pundit Jawahar Lal Nehru took the Kashmir issue to the > United Nations. It was only because of Indian political prejudice and > insincerity that autonomy of Kashmir was eroded. > > Q 8) How would you see the contours of its resolution? > > A:- Well, Kashmir is a much political issue than a religious one. Kashmir > has suffered because of a historical political mistake so the key to its > resolution is strong political struggle which is possible only when we have > strong political institutions with sincere leaders having unanimity on the > common Kashmir cause. > So far we have failed on diplomatic and international level only because of > the poor and corrupt leadership. It is imperative to coordinate the > political groups and bring them under one banner and one single leader. I > would suggest Sayed Sayed Ali Shah Geelani who has shown strength and > resilience while others change their cloaks often. But there has to be > inclusion of Pandits in the political leadership. > > Q10) How would you place Article 370 in this jigsaw puzzle? > > A:- The Article 370 has no future unless it does not get a permanent place > in the Indian Constitution. Since the Article 370 is a temporary Article, > it can be abrogated any time by the parliament of India and BJP has > included the abrogation of Article 370 in its election manifesto. I think > we > Kashmiris should have fought vigorously for the permanence of the Article > 370. Since the Article 370 is followed with the word "Temporary" has no > meaning unless it does not get divorce from it. Moreover, the Indian > leadership has always failed to give the due share to the Kashmiris in > their > democratic doctrines as established in 1950. > > Q12) How do you see the future of Kashmir ? > > A:- We must pin hope against hope on the fourth generation after 1947 who > can give respite to Kashmiris if they succeed to apply their brains > properly. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Feb 19 21:29:54 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 21:29:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Kashmiri Pandits fear dream may turn sour" In-Reply-To: <631393.4965.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <631393.4965.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902190759m2a2876a5offddd5bb99335639@mail.gmail.com> Dear Kshemendra, Well , Well , Well.... What saddens you ? Had i not written to you long back that you are believing in something which is not possible. What makes you think that your thoughts or optimism would change 1000 + years of victimisation and persecution of hindus in Kashmir. I pity you. For you are what we had been for 1000+ years. Believers in nonsense. Kshemendra, wake up and if not for yourself , for generations ahead .....tell them that Kashmir is not for Hindus and stop believing in dreams. For Kashmiri Hindus , the nightmare started more than 1000 years back and it still continues and it is people like you who defend what is not right by trying a handshake with someone who holds a dagger in other hand. Regards Pawan On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > I feel personally slighted by this news item. > > It has always been my belief that the right place for the Kashmiri > Pandit for the purposes of continuation of the Kashmiri Pandit identity is > in Kashmir. I still believe that. > > This news item saddens me > > Kshmendra > > > Kashmiri Pandits fear dream may turn sour > Seema Sharma > Tribune News Service > > "Kashmiri Pandits fear dream may turn sour" > Seema Sharma > Tribune News Service > > Jammu, February 17 > > Expectation is running high among around 10,000 migrant Kashmiri Pandits, > who filled in consent forms to return to their homeland in the Kashmir > valley in April last year under the Prime Minister's package for their > return and rehabilitation, amid fear whether conditions are conducive. > > The three families, which returned to the valley and tried to live in their > homes there, had to return humiliated by people and authorities. > > Yogesh Kandhari, who took voluntary retirement from Deccan Aviation to > settle down in his home in the Habba Kadal area of Srinagar a year ago, > returned to Jammu unhappy and dejected within a year. > > His dreams got shattered when he found a part of his house and a shop > encroached. > > Kandhari says, "Last year, I went back to Habba Kadal with my family in a > hope to spend the remaining part of my life at my birth place. But I was > shocked to see a large part of my house encroached upon by my neighbour. > Somebody also broke open one of my three shops and occupied it. It took me > one year running from one office to another to retrieve the rights of my > properties. I was able to get my house vacated, but my shop was handed over > to the intruder. Aghast over the sickening attitude of people there, I > returned to Jammu to find peace of mind." > > Pushkar Razdan, a retired teacher at Pulwama, has not been even that lucky. > He saw his house taken over by the state police and farms invaded by local > people. > > He lamented, "Expensive walnut trees in my orchards were felled and stolen > by some people. A 32 feet road was drawn across my fields without my > permission. My house was taken over by the state police, which created a > police post there after the infamous Vandhama mass killing case. The police > even refused to pay me rent. Now, the matter has got stuck with the Home > Ministry. Ultimately, I had to leave my home in the valley." > > Equally distraught is Triloki Nath Bhatt, a resident of Monghama, who is > physically challenged with a twisted arm by birth, to see that his own > people have become estranged to him. > > "When I went back this year to reconstruct my ruined home in Monghama to > make it worth living, I was restrained by people and the local > administration. I was aghast to know that I can't carry out construction at > my place. This shows people who keep an eye on profitable properties never > want us to return." He too returned empty-handed and disheartened. > > > http://www.tribuneindia.com/2009/20090218/j&k.htm#3 > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Fri Feb 20 00:57:26 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 00:57:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Slipper thrown at Roy fetches Rs 1 lakh Message-ID: <6353c690902191127i2748fdcbs3131585a22de75e@mail.gmail.com> Slipper thrown at Roy fetches Rs 1 lakh *HT Correspondent, Hindustan Times* New Delhi, February 19, 2009 When Arundhati Roy visited the Delhi University campus on February 13, she was greeted with a slipper thrown by student group Youth Unity for Vibrant Action (YUVA). The slipper was auctioned for Rs 101, 000 at Jantar Mantar on Thursday. "When Arundhati Roy came to our campus, a member named Asif Kumar threw his slipper at her to protest her statement that Kashmir should be given to Pakistan. Her statement is against our national interest," said Jairam Pandey, national convenor, YUVA. The slipper was bought by businessman Amitabh Kumar. "I was in Connaught Place for a meeting, when I went for a walk to Jantar Mantar after lunch. There I saw a demonstration by YUVA activists, who were auctioning the slipper," he said. "I feel she is a traitor to our nation, so despite the steep price, I bought the slipper thrown at her. I am now going to go on eBay and auction it off. Even if I do not recover the money, I do not care, as it was done for the pride of my nation," he added. From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Fri Feb 20 02:00:57 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 20:30:57 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] A wish list for the young prince In-Reply-To: <52d5781f0902132233m29719e07h3eba0f61694c4c4b@mail.gmail.com> References: <52d5781f0902132233m29719e07h3eba0f61694c4c4b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Two things are clear. One - that those frustrated over the peoples' outright rejection of the ‘election boycott ‘dictate’ they had campaigned for so vehemently not so long ago & had even cast aspersions over the fairness of the very elections that lead to the formation of the Omar Abdullah lead very Govt. that is being now approached for redressal, do accept the validity of the democratically elected Govt. of the state of Jammu & Kashmir. Two –that it is accepted that the democratically elected Govt. is not only expected to look after just the 'bijli, pani, sadak (electricity, water, roads) but also the overall governance including overseeing the implementation of the constitution of India in all spheres, similar to the other states in India. In any case the boycott dictate was never conditional & there was no hue & cry over the detention of the separatists. People very happily went ahead & voted. People will continue to be happy & enjoy the democracy if only there is no instigation or religious blackmail by the agent provocateurs. It is a pity that those who disregarded all democratic norms & pushed Kashmir valley in to a state of bloody chaos & anarchy are now seeking redressal through democratic means from the democratically elected Govt., elections to which were opposed tooth & nail. If only the disgruntled Kashmiri Muslim politicians & their underground as well as over ground cohorts had not at the behest of their Pakistani masters facilitated, to serve their own sinister designs - indoctrination, training ,arming of the gullible locals to wage jihad against India in 1989-90, there would have been no conflict & no casualties & needless to say no pleas. The biggest casualty being the very social fabric of the valley what with the ethnic cleansing of the minority aboriginal Kashmiri Hindu Pandits at the hands of the Kashmiri Islamists, today the very Kashmiriyat is rendered ruptured. ‘Swat’ is only the replay of what was executed in Kashmir valley two decades ago. Now does this petition include those also who lost their lives in internecine war amongst the various mujahidin factions? Does this petition include the ‘number’ of those who crossed over into Pakistan & POK for training & indoctrination or those who still continue to operate from there? Does the list of missing also include those mercenaries who were eliminated while fighting Indian security forces or in suicide bombings in Kashmir, like that Birmingham born Bilal who blew himself up in Srinagar on the eve of X-mas of 2000 or that Maldivian Islamists who was killed in Srinagar as reported in HT lead article today (Feb. 19, Delhi edition)? Does the list also include the soldiers of Northern Infantry who were abandoned by Pakistan in Kargil? Why is the petition silent over the role of Kashmiri Muslims who claimed to be representing the masses & were responsible for ferrying weapons from Pakistan in to the valley? After all did that star ‘terror commander’ not publicly identify the farm house of that high profile PAK minister (in Gen Musharaf’s junta)) during that Govt. sponsored bus ride across LOC? The petition is silent over the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits at the hands of Kashmiri pan Islamists. After all this very CM Omar Abdullah did mention about the failure of Kashmiri Muslims in protecting their Kashmiri Hindu Pandit neighbors when they were being hounded out. Why isn’t there a demand to investigate the source of funding for the anti India jihad in Kashmir? Did Former democratically elected CM Ghulam Nabhi Azad not publicly accuse a prominent Arab country for funding the ‘anti Amaranth land for temporary facilities’ movement in the valley? The petition does not indicate in any way that the proponents of ‘azadi- bara -e –Islam’ (freedom through Islam) have given up their jihad. Latest reports suggest that women fidayyan are already on prowl in Kashmir or in rest of India. The petition also does not seek investigation in the role of those who in the guise of civil society have been garnering support for the Kashmiri Muslim separatists in & out side the valley through press & propaganda films & have facilitated political makeover of terrorists who under any civilized norm deserve to be tried for crimes against humanity. The Kashmiri Muslim separatists who founded the ‘gun’ culture in the valley by introducing ‘AK47s’ & ‘grenades’ even when the police held lathis & outdated 303 rifles & killed people in cold blood are solely responsible for the miseries of Kashmiris. It is a classic case when a conflict is deliberately created & the ensuing casualties are projected to seek empathy for the so called cause- a cycle of deceit & tragedies. Regards all LA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 12:03:33 +0530 > From: jashneazadifilm at gmail.com > To: reader-list at sarai.net > Subject: [Reader-list] A wish list for the young prince > > This letter, addressed to the newly elected Chief Minister of Jammu & > Kashmir, provides a very useful list of the kinds of issues that > confront democracy in the troubled state. > best > Sanjay Kak > > -------------------------- > > To: Mr. Omar Abdullah > Chief Minister > Jammu and Kashmir > > From: The International People's Tribunal on Human Rights and Justice in Kashmir > > Conveners: > Dr. Angana Chatterji, Associate Professor, Anthropology, California > Institute of Integral Studies > Advocate Parvez Imroz, Founder, Jammu and Kashmir Coalition of Civil Society > Gautam Navlakha, Editorial Consultant, Economic and Political Weekly > Zahir-Ud-Din, Vice-President, Jammu and Kashmir Coalition of Civil Society > > Legal Counsel: > Advocate Mihir Desai, Mumbai High Court, Supreme Court of India, > Co-founder, Indian People's Tribunal > > Liaison: > Khurram Parvez, Programme Coordinator, Jammu and Kashmir Coalition of > Civil Society > > > > February 11, 2009 > > Re.: Memorandum on Human Rights, Peace, and Social Justice > > > Dear Mr. Omar Abdullah: > > We write you today on behalf of the International People's Tribunal on > Human Rights and Justice in Indian-administered Kashmir. [A brief on > the Tribunal's premise and objectives may be found at: > http://www.kashmirprocess.org/premise.html.] > > We write, mindful that you have promised attentiveness and > accountability to human rights issues in Kashmir, to bring to your > attention the need for appropriate action with regard to the > following: > > 1. Disappearances: You have raised issues of enforced disappearances > in Kashmir in the past. We ask that you order a full-scale > investigation under provisions of the Commissions of Inquiry Act, > 1952, and/or other relevant laws, within a stipulated and reasonable > timeframe. > > We ask as well that all laws of Jammu and Kashmir incorporate the > premise of the United Nations Declaration on the Protection of All > Persons From Enforced Disappearance, the International Convention for > the Protection of All Persons from Enforced Disappearance, and the > Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading > Treatment or Punishment. > > 2. Killing by Police Firings, Fake Encounter Killings, and > Extrajudicial Killings: We ask that you use all authority granted you > by law to take strong and effective preventive measures to ensure that > these are not repeated. As well, we urge that the cases that have been > pending in courts, and those that have not been filed, be > expeditiously dealt with and the perpetrators be brought to justice. > We ask that the Government of Jammu and Kashmir follow the cases > pending for sanctions before the Government of India's Home Ministry > under Section 7 of Armed Forces Special Powers Act, 1958, (AFSPA). We > ask that the state make public the number of cases in which sanctions > have been sought from the Government of India, and the number of cases > in which the same have been granted. > > 3. Mass Graves: We note the existence of mass graves in Kashmir, as > verified by the Association of Parents of Disappeared Persons and the > International People's Tribunal for Human Rights and Justice in > Kashmir in 2008. We note that there are connections between the number > of persons disappeared and these unmarked, unidentified, nameless, and > unknown graves. We also note that various international institutions > and bodies, such as the European Parliament, have referred to this > issue and made recommendations for action. We ask that your government > offer protection to the sites to not permit their desecration or > destruction, enable independent and transparent investigations drawing > upon varied, credible, and international expertise, and institute an > independent and transparent judicial commission of inquiry. > > 4. Torture: It has been acknowledged by international human rights > organizations that the use of torture by military and paramilitary > forces is widespread in Kashmir. [See documentations available at > http://www.kashmirprocess.org/resources.html.] As well, the Government > of India is yet to ratify the Convention Against Torture and Other > Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, although it has > been a signatory since October 1997. In this context, we ask that the > Government of Jammu and Kashmir institute a comprehensive ban on > practises of torture as defined by international law and humanitarian > ethics. > > 5. Detention and Torture Centres: We ask that unlawful detention and > torture centres, including in army camps, be identified, made public, > and banned. Further, we ask that appropriate reparations be determined > and undertaken with regard to unlawful and unconstitutional practises > undertaken in these camps and centres. We ask that international > institutions, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross > (ICRC), be permitted to visit the above places to assess the situation > independently. > > 6. Gendered and Sexualized Violences: We note the severity of gendered > and sexualized violences that have been perpetrated in Kashmir in the > last two decades. Women and children, and others, have been victimized > by horrific forms of brutality, including rape, gang and collective > rape, perpetrated on women. Other categories of victimization include > women whose male partners are missing, labelled 'half-widows'. Women > and children, and others, have been subjected to physical and > psychological torture and trauma, and social and literal > displacements. We note the urgency of undertaking ethical, > transparent, and independent assessments of the above in conditions > that ensure the safety and security of the survivors/victims, and > undertaking requisite reparations and rehabilitation. > > 7. Prisoners Rights: We ask that prisoners' rights not be violated, > and that medical aid be readily made available, and that the right to > legal counsel, due process, fair and speedy trials be upheld. > > 8. Rights of Former Militants: We ask that the civil liberties of > former militants and their families be respected. We note that the > civic and political rights of former militants, who are now living > different and committed lives, continue to be violated by personnel of > the military and paramilitary forces. We note that some of them have > been subjected to torture after serving sentences and deemed > 'rehabilitated' by the justice system. We note that many still have to > report to local camps of the security forces on a weekly basis. We > note as well that former militants and their families continue to be > subjected to maltreatment and denied access to social life, such as to > institutions, employment, and pensions. > > 9. Juvenile Justice: We ask that youth not be taken into custody, > held, or tried as adults, and that their rights to legal counsel, due > process, and fair and speedy trials be upheld. We ask that a law be > enacted that guarantees juvenile justice, that safeguards the rights > of juveniles in conflict with law, and neglected and destitute > juveniles. > > We note that young people in general, particularly girls and young > women, must be guaranteed an environment free of sexual harassment and > violence. > > We note that young people need to be guaranteed freedom from forms of > harassment that undermine their right to education. Impediment to > livelihood of adults creates economic insecurity that impacts youth. > Family livelihood insecurity compels youth to earn income rather than > foreground education and development. Proximity to systemic violence > produces severe emotional trauma that manifests as depression, > suicidal behaviours, self-medication through drugs, as well as retreat > and isolation as coping strategies. There are inadequate provisions to > address these issues and respond to these needs. We urge recognition > of this reality and the allocation of resources to address these > issues. > > 10. Access to Justice: We ask that all persons seeking to access > institutions of law and justice be treated with respect and > non-violence by law enforcement agencies. We note that, in countless > instances, complaints are disregarded by the police, false first > information reports (FIRs) filed, and people's request to file FIRS > are met with disrespect, even force. > > 11. Landmines: We note that the placement of landmines along the > border and other sensitive areas in Jammu and Kashmir continues to > endanger lives, including those of children. While the Government of > India is not a signatory to the Convention on the Prohibition of the > Use, Stockpiling, Production and Transfer of Anti-Personnel Mines and > on their Destruction, and has continued to justify landmine use in > Jammu and Kashmir, we ask that the Government of Jammu and Kashmir > institute a comprehensive ban on the use of landmines. We ask that an > audit be conducted to ascertain the impact of landmines on local > communities, to determine the extent of casualties, devastation, and > displacement, and undertake rehabilitation of those affected and > de-mining. > > 12. Transparency: We urge that the Government of Jammu and Kashmir > ensure that international organizations and institutions, that have > access to other places, are allowed to visit Jammu and Kashmir. We > note that the ability of international institutions to work with local > civil society institutions in Jammu and Kashmir is crucial to > interrupting isolation and producing accountability. > > We ask that thousands of families who have been denied passports, > including human rights defenders and journalists, be provided the > same. > > We ask that, prior to contractual agreements and implementation, all > development projects be assessed for their human rights implications. > > 13. Laws and States of Exception: We note your commitment to the > revocation and withdrawal of security related legislation that has > been in contravention of international humanitarian laws and norms, > such as the Armed Forces Special Powers Act, 1958, (AFSPA), enacted in > Jammu and Kashmir in 1990, the Disturbed Areas Act, 1976, enacted in > Jammu and Kashmir in 1992, and the Jammu and Kashmir Public Safety Act > of 1978. We reiterate the urgent need for the revocation of the Armed > Forces Special Powers Act, 1958, the Disturbed Areas Act, 1976, the > Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act, 1967, and the Jammu and Kashmir > Public Safety Act of 1978. We also note that continued criminal > proceedings using the Prevention of Terrorism Act, 2002, and the > Terrorist and Disruptive Activities (Prevention) Act, 1985, 1987, must > be stopped. > > While the safety and security of citizens must remain of paramount > concern, we ask that you remain vigilant to the problematic parameters > and consequences of certain national security laws used to proscribe > political dissent and deny freedom of expression, freedom of speech, > and freedom of assembly, and deny the democratic right to peaceful > mobilization and dissent. We note that certain national security laws, > in the name of retributive justice, have been/may be used to > perpetrate state violence, subvert due process of law, undermine civil > liberties, and freedom of the press, eroding rule of law, permitting > torture and sexualized violence on those in state custody, > criminalizing innocent persons, and, in effect, undermining the safety > and security of citizens. > > 14. Commissions of Inquiry: We ask that the reports and/or findings of > various Commissions of Inquiry that have been instituted to inquire > into instances of gross violations of human rights, law, and social > justice be made public and that these commissions be ordered to > complete their charge. Further, from available information, we > register our concern that between 2000-2007 only three statutory > inquiries have been commissioned and that other inquiries instituted > have been magisterial and administrative probes. We ask that, based on > ethical assessments of gross violations of human rights, law, and > social justice, relevant statutory inquiries be ordered, as > appropriate, to investigate these crimes. We ask that various > agencies, including military and paramilitary institutions, be > required to cooperate with instituted commissions in order that they > may carry out their investigations. We ask that the recommendations of > the commissions be enacted. > > 15. Minorities: We note that peace and reconciliation requires > commitment to minority rights and issues, and the ethical and > transparent resolution of injustices. We ask that an audit be > conducted to ascertain the status of minorities in Kashmir, and > related to the displacement, dislocation, and rehabilitation of > minorities in Jammu and Kashmir, to propose mechanisms for reparation > and reconciliation. > > 16. Truth and Reconciliation Commission: We note your public > commitment to instituting a 'Truth and Reconciliation Commission > (TRC)'. We are hopeful that you will appreciate that such a process > must facilitate the implementation of justice as a precondition to > reconciliation. We further note that the viability and success of a > TRC is only possible in a context where demilitarization has taken > place, enabling a social context in which the will and freedom of the > people of Kashmir can be exercised. > > 17. In conclusion, we write you today mindful of how the conditions > for peace and prosperity are linked to the possibility and necessity > of justice in Kashmir. We understand the work of the International > People's Tribunal for Human Rights and Justice in Kashmir as enabling > the work of justice. Toward that, we hope and expect that the Tribunal > will continue to undertake its work in conditions that are not > impeded. > > > Yours Sincerely, > > Angana Chatterji, Parvez Imroz, Gautam Navlakha, Zahir-Ud-Din, Mihir > Desai, Khurram Parvez > > > Contact: > Khurram Parvez > E-mail: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org > T: +91-194-2482820 > M: +91-9419013553 > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Searching for weekend getaways? Try Live.com http://www.live.com/?scope=video&form=MICOAL From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Feb 20 07:49:38 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 02:19:38 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-94 Message-ID: <65be9bf40902191819x94e88flf9dfe48d2f77669@mail.gmail.com> http://www.indianexpress.com/news/the-guy-next-door/344514/0 The guy next door Bibek Debroy Measured in fatalities and injuries, the worst terrorist attacks have been in New York, Al-Qataniyah (Iraq), Al-Adnaniyah (Iraq), Abadan, Beslan, Bombay (1993), Nairobi, Dar es Saalam, Beirut, Ben Talha (Algeria), Ami Moussa (Algeria), Mecca, Sidi Moussa (Algeria), Hais Rais (Algeria), Kuta, Baghdad, Mumbai (2006), Moscow, Oklahoma, Sophia, Anuradhapura, Karachi, Manila, Colombo, Kandahar and so on. Within India, in addition to Mumbai, we have Coimbatore, Srinagar, Delhi, Jammu, Varanasi, Malegaon, Hyderabad, Jaipur, Bangalore and Ahmedabad, not to mention Surat. Given terrorist objectives, attacks work when there is a concentration of people. The Akshardham temple, Sankatmochan Mandir (Varanasi) and Mecca Masjid (Hyderabad) follow the same logic. Barring planes and trains, terrorism is an urban phenomenon. Naxalite violence is somewhat different. This is Carlos Marighella in his1969 Mini-Manual of the Urban Guerrilla: "The Government has no alternative except to intensify its repression. The police networks, house searches, the arrest of suspects and innocent persons, and the closing off of streets make life in the city unbearable." There are reasons why cities evolved, all centred around positive externalities — transport, other infrastructure and services, security and protection, larger markets, economies of scale and scope in production and distribution, labour markets. After the recent round of attacks, there will be discussions on cross-border effects, ineffectiveness of intelligence, under-manning of police, the proposed federal counter-terrorism agency and ineffectiveness of the judicial system. In its attempt to be fair to the accused, the judicial system imposes collateral damage on the innocent. Why should it be different when the accused are terrorists? These points are extremely important. However, let's focus on the urban aspect: any urban Indian resident will now be exposed to police barricades and metal detectors. No bombs have ever been identified through metal detectors, and no terrorists have ever been caught through barricades. We will be told gathering preventive intelligence in cities is impossible. Every individual is anonymous. Terrorists have imbibed Mao Zedong's adage to guerrillas: they disappear like fish in the sea. But that's not really true. An individual is anonymous only if one looks at a city as a unified urban agglomeration. No city is like that. The residential areas of every city are nothing but modernised villages, connected to each other through networks of the kind that made cities evolve. Am I, however, anonymous to the centralised police system? I probably am, because no one remembers police verification at the time of passport-issuance. Am I anonymous to the local police station? I probably am, because data collected at the time of passport-issuance has not percolated through to local police. I am probably even anonymous to my neighbours, because no one has time for others. But that doesn't mean I am anonymous within my residential community. Residents' welfare association, private security guards employed by them, cable-TV provider, internet provider, newspaper vendor, local taxi stand, neighbourhood shop, home-delivery food outlets, electrician, plumber, parking attendant at shopping centre, these are all instances of people who know who I am. It is impossible to exist without leaving a trail and I am not anonymous vis-à-vis them. While the precise list may vary from one kind of residential area to another, such facilitatory networks generate enough information. It is just that this isn't factored into intelligence-gathering. If we expect police or other centralised counter-intelligence bodies to gather preventive intelligence, it simply won't work. We will only have knee-jerk reactions of barricades and metal-detectors. The state of high-alert will pass and we will have another terrorist attack. There is a Model Police Act now, which has an explicit provision for bringing in community-level organisations. However, few states have implemented that particular provision. In a similar vein, labour market and consumption networks also generate enough information. Why isn't this gathered and processed? This is more than the knee-jerk idea of requiring every bicycle-purchaser to provide identity cards. Incidentally, no identity card seems to be required for purchasing explosives. There is a broader issue of the unorganised nature of many commercial transactions. In a developing country that's inevitable. But while small may be beautiful, beauty has nothing to do with business. Large and organised, not government-induced smallness, is good for business. It is also good for security. What identity cards are bicycle-purchasers going to produce? Forget counterfeit versions of identity cards. Genuine ones like ration cards and driving licences can be obtained through agents for payment of fees. In other words, government-delivered systems of such cards are ridden with corruption and don't help the cause of security. What happened to the biometric national identity card that now goes by the name of multi-purpose national identity card (MNIC)? It started in 2002 under the NDA, was mentioned by Abdul Kalam in his August 15, 2006 speech and has been quietly continued by the UPA since July 2004, with pilot projects in 20 sub-districts. Most pilots are in border regions; the only exceptions are Goa, Delhi, Andhra, Puducherry and Tamil Nadu, of which, only Delhi and Goa are urban in any sense. Among other things, MNIC will also link databases connected with admissions in educational institutes, health/medical services, ticket booking, SC/ST/OBC status, old-age pensions/disability, birth/marriage/death, property transactions, PDS, NREGA and the financial sector. In principle, this inter-connectivity should enable double-checks and reduce fraud. But there are questions. Why is the government so quiet about the MNIC? This is so hush-hush that the website is still under construction, after four years. If cities are the focus of terrorism, why are Goa and Delhi the only urban centres for pilots? Implementation should be easier in urban India. For instance, in Murshidabad, according to reports, the pilot couldn't verify 90 per cent of the population. Given government track records, why isn't one outsourcing part of the identification function, including the use of communities? PAN cards never took off until their issuance was partly outsourced. Rather oddly, India provides IT services to the rest of the world and this encompasses security too. But we don't use that skill and expertise at home. We also need another POTA — Prevention of Torpid Attitude. The writer is a noted economist express at expressindia.com From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Feb 20 07:51:31 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 02:21:31 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-95 Message-ID: <65be9bf40902191821l42deff87pce5c5ef07ccca21f@mail.gmail.com> http://www.kashmirnewz.net/n000320.html India testing Smart I-card project New Delhi, Thursday February 28, 2008: India is planning to issue a Multipurpose National Identity Card (MNIC), also referred to as Smart Card to its citizens. The project envisages providing unique National Identity Number (NIN) to each person in the National Population Register. However given the complexities involved in registering and issuing cards to its more than one billion citizens, an experimental project has been undertaken in selective areas, the Indian government said Wednesday. A pilot project, under which identity (smart) cards are being issued to the adult citizens, has been under implementation on experimental basis covering a population of 3 million in the selected areas in 12 States and one Union Territory, India's junior minister for Home Affairs, Manikrao Gavit informed the Rajya Sabha, the upper house of the country's bicameral parliament Wednesday. The production and distribution of identity cards would to be completed by March this year and the scheme would be implemented in the entire country in the light of the experiences of the pilot project, Gavit said. Earlier in January the local government in Indian capital New Delhi tried to make carrying of Identity cards mandatory for its citizens. The plan met stiff opposition from neighbouring north Indian states, from where a large number of migrants flock to the metropolis looking for jobs. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Feb 20 07:53:24 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 02:23:24 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-96 Message-ID: <65be9bf40902191823k4669bccci445062464b904bb5@mail.gmail.com> http://www.indianexpress.com/news/when-we-think-policy-we-think-capacity-not-ideas.-hardware-not-software.-thats-wrong/389451/0 'When we think policy, we think capacity, not ideas. Hardware, not software. That's wrong' Mihir S. Sharma Posted: Nov 23, 2008 at 0122 hrs IST New Delhi, November 22: Infosys co-founder Nandan Nilekani is a man of many parts. An "accidental entrepreneur", a determined philanthropist, and, as is clear in his new book Imagining India, a deep thinker about policy. He's convinced he needs to get new ideas out there, and he told The Sunday Express what some of them are. On his book: It's about India, and ideas... I wouldn't have written it if it didn't have something nobody has previously said in each chapter. I'm a value-for-money guy. This book is value for money — and for your time in reading it. It would have to be, or it wouldn't be value for my time in writing it. I would have watched Rock On instead. On philanthropy in India: The Tatas, the Birlas — Mahim causeway in Bombay was built by Lady Jeejeebhoy in the 19th century. That stopped during the socialist era — no new wealth was being created, so who'd give it away? People don't do that with wealth they inherit, because they don't think it's theirs to give away. Now, we need some serious philanthropy to start, not the little driblets we see. Society will let you make money only as long as it thinks you are valuable. You don't contribute, society will take your right to make money away. Look at the US, a hundred years ago. They had robust capitalism. Carnegie, Mellon, Morgan — these men were dadas. But they gave it all away. So capitalism was made palatable, and survived. On how to create new wealth: We need first-generation wealth. We don't have any Horatio Alger stories, about blue-collar guys making good in the system. We don't have that mythology, because our labour system is dysfunctional. We've created a monster. 93 per cent disorganised, 2 per cent unionised. It helps every interest group, and shafts the common worker. On failing to sell reform: We haven't presented reform as a matter of access for the common worker. It's about opportunities opening up, about destroying vested interests. This is a failure of communication. On lessons from the crisis: What we really need to see in this crisis is that we've worked around more fundamental reform. We've been lulled by 8 per cent growth for years into thinking that we don't have anything left to do. But actually, we had cheap credit, liquidity coming in. Now that's gone. So back to basics. Learn the right lessons, not the wrong ones, like in Sonia Gandhi's speech yesterday. On youth and reform: There's no going back on reform. The genie's out of the bottle, young people expect it. In any case, policy under-reflects our youth. They are so hugely aspirational. In my book, I tell this story: my wife asked in several villages what the kids wanted to do when they grew up. Not one said "farmer". They want a new life. They watch TV, they're connected, so of course they will. On the urgency of Indian demographics: We're a young country. We need to take advantage of the bulge of young people, because if we miss it then we're in trouble. Here's an idea you won't find somewhere else: our demographic bulge is actually double-humped, like a camel. The South had its burst of young people already. The North is starting now. The central challenge for the country is opening up reform there, spreading access, giving those youngsters opportunities. On Nehru: I did a frequency analysis on the book. I ran the algorithm, and one name stood out: Nehru's. This is a book about ideas, and he created our ideas. Universal access to politics. Secularism. Not recognising class. Planning. Yes, this is a book about our future, but we can't get there without looking at the past. On empowering cities: I care about cities. We recognise their importance now, but it wasn't always so. For two reasons: the first was the idea that the ideal was the village republic, that the true India was rural. The second was that the cities were associated with the British. So we got accidental cities. And they were starved. I use the hourglass metaphor in the book: state-level politicians were scared of a strong centre and a strong local level, so they strangled cities and panchayats. The third level always got shafted. Besides, cities are where the money is made, which CM would give that up? Disempower them politically and financially, and they can't manage anything, and we get a mess. So what happens? Our public utilities don't get built, our public spaces disappear. Look at Bangalore. All the lakes are going. I remember when Shivaji Bus Stop was a lake. On planning confusion: Take ID cards. We need a universal system. The finance ministry has PAN cards, Home has MNIC, the planning commission has the unique ID project. We need to get sensible, stop thinking in silos. I'm writing a book, not a design document, but I can lay out the steps. For example, get every person a bank account. Then benefits can be direct. No more PDS wastage. On what he brings to policy thinking: When we think of policy, we think of capacity, not ideas. We think of hardware, not software. That's wrong. I know how much the back-end matters. We need new ideas, and we need to leverage our technical know-how to get there. Once we do, we'll see democracy's a comparative advantage. An open society is one where information flows freely, where access is easier. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Feb 20 08:20:45 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 02:50:45 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Narcissism / Faith / Models In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <65be9bf40902191850w4050c303l238f62f08340bc1b@mail.gmail.com> Dear Jeebesh Going by the grain of the report which you have so kindly posted, could one similarly argue did Oxbridge law faculty killed the British rule in India? Because prima facie quite a few of Indian national leaders went to these universities. Don't you feel such a reading of any phenomena is perhaps facile? Wasn't the assumption in the argument seems to suggest- students retain some sensibility, some world view, some differentiating marks of the knowledge exposed at places of learning, such as Department of Business Management at Harvard. Although I am not so sure about how much of an institutional trace is retained by practitioners, so as to collectively effect a recession in global economies? Warm regards Taha From elkamath at yahoo.com Fri Feb 20 09:27:43 2009 From: elkamath at yahoo.com (lalitha kamath) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 19:57:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Conf on urban street vending: economic resistance, integration or marginalization Message-ID: <434276.19309.qm@web53610.mail.re2.yahoo.com> FYI Call for Papers Workshop for Junior Researchers and Ph.D. Candidates Transatlantic Graduate Research Program Berlin – New York Urban Street Vending: Economic Resistance, Integration or Marginalization? May 15 -16 , 2009, Technical University Berlin Urban street vending exists in various distributive forms and includes numerous products: From the mobile selling of food from bikes or trays, more stabile vending practices from carts, to street table vending, for instance, of books, CDs and apparel. The selling practices in public space vary tremendously depending on the particular country, city and neighborhood, affecting the sellers’ networks, labor conditions and daily routines. The vendors’ backgrounds are generally equally diverse. In Germany and the United States, the two focus countries of our workshop, the majority either have a migrant background and/or are people of color. In a public space that is on the one hand designed to promote effective traffic and on the other hand aimed at regulated consumption and leisure, street vendors are frequently faced with harassment and restrictions. In contrast, there are also policies that facilitate access to street entrepreneurialism for certain groups (such as war veterans) – whereby street vending can also be understood as a depository for those marginalized from the formal labor market. As an alternative source for neighborhood-specific goods or an economic entry that does not require extensive capital, urban street selling can also foster social mobility and local economies. In response to the so-far scarce research on street vending, this workshop – considering the underlying dimensions of race, class and gender – will focus on its economic conceptualizations, urban visions, cultural potentials and political challenges. In a comparative approach, focusing on the German and American metropolis – but also considering selling modes in other cities worldwide – we seek to problematize street vending as a practice that is at the same time tolerated, restricted and promoted by public policies. In particular, we would like to examine: ∗ The economic framing of street vending: Can we talk about an informal or illicit economy? Moreover, do notions like ethnic and niche economy apply to the urban selling practices? 1/3 ∗ Contemporary and past vending practices: What are the daily routines of economic survival, labor and entrepreneurship of different vendors in different cities? How have products, vendors and clients changed in certain vending locations over the past decades? ∗ The conflict between street vending as a practice of resistance, integration or marginalization: Does street vending furthers the democratization of public space as well as alternative economies, or does it lead to an exclusion and stigmatization of particular groups? ∗ The use of public space: What can be considered an appropriate use of public space for vending purposes, both from the entrepreneur’s and authorities’ perceptive? ∗ To what extent does street selling in American cities contributes to building alternative public spheres (for instance a black public sphere in Harlem)? ∗ The relations between vending locations, types of products, clients and vendors: To what extent can vending spaces and economies be considered as racialized? ∗ Representations of street economics: How do different kinds of media deal with the topic? What kind of images of the profession and its people are mediated? Keynotes The workshop offers internationally perspectives on street economics research, featuring keynote presentations by Mark Naison, Professor of History and African-American Studies at Fordham University, New York, USA Alfonso Morales, Professor of Urban and Regional Planning at the University of Wisconsin at Madison, USA Kathrin Wildner, Professor of Economic Geography at Viadrina University, Frankfurt/Oder, Germany Peter Herrle, Professor of Architecture and Urban Development at the Technical University of Berlin, Germany (to be confirmed) Workshop format The workshop aims at facilitating intense dialogue and exchange among doctoral students and junior scholars interested in the research on street economics. This will be reflected in the amount of time in the program allocated to discussion in a constructive, supportive setting. Participants have the opportunity to give 15-minute presentations introducing their research with subsequent discussion or to participate as a discussant without giving a presentation. There will be a maximum of 20 participants. Workshop language is English. 2/3 3/3 Papers We invite papers presenting theoretical and/or empirical contributions from a variety of methodological and disciplinary perspectives on street economics, regarding one of the questions above. Submitted papers should ∗ be directly related to one of the major topics of the workshop ∗ present current research Papers should not exceed 2,500 words and include an abstract of no more than 300 words. It is expected that selected papers will be published in some form after the workshop. Application for presenters / discussants Presenters: Please submit a short CV and a less than 300 word proposal in English for your presentation. Discussants: Please submit a short description of your background and motivation to participate in the workshop. Please send in applications no later than 22nd February 2009 to the following address: streetvending at metropolitanstudies.de. Applicants will be notified via e-mail by mid-March 2009. The conference will take place at the Center for Metropolitan Studies, Technical University Berlin, Ernst-Reuter-Platz 7, 10587 Berlin, Germany. The conference language is English. The participation fee will be 15 €. Unfortunately, the Center for Metropolitan Studies cannot offer travel grants. Travel and accommodation expenses are responsibility of individual participants. However, we can support you with recommendations and information regarding your stay in Berlin. Organizers Noa Ha (Noa.Ha at Metropolitanstudies.de) and Kristina Graaff (Kristina.Graaff at Metropolitanstudies.de), Center for Metropolitan Studies, Berlin, Germany From vrjogi at hotmail.com Fri Feb 20 10:26:29 2009 From: vrjogi at hotmail.com (Vedavati Jogi) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 04:56:29 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] FW: Slipper thrown at Roy fetches Rs 1 lakh In-Reply-To: <6353c690902191129o2ecb2790r55cc56d3e89bb7ae@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690902191127i2748fdcbs3131585a22de75e@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902191129o2ecb2790r55cc56d3e89bb7ae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 00:59:48 +0530 Subject: Slipper thrown at Roy fetches Rs 1 lakh From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com To: send2sp at gmail.com; suniljibhat at gmail.com; pawan.durani at gmail.com; jsandhya at gmail.com; tarun.vijay at gmail.com; wjohn60 at gmail.com; mail2kgupta at gmail.com; vrjogi at hotmail.com; veeruz at gmail.com; jenaldhar at gmail.com; irazdan at yahoo.com; nupsha at gmail.com; cme.sugandhi at gmail.com; bhawickrocks at gmail.com Slipper thrown at Roy fetches Rs 1 lakh HT Correspondent, Hindustan Times New Delhi, February 19, 2009 When Arundhati Roy visited the Delhi University campus on February 13, she was greeted with a slipper thrown by student group Youth Unity for Vibrant Action (YUVA). The slipper was auctioned for Rs 101, 000 at Jantar Mantar on Thursday. "When Arundhati Roy came to our campus, a member named Asif Kumar threw his slipper at her to protest her statement that Kashmir should be given to Pakistan. Her statement is against our national interest," said Jairam Pandey, national convenor, YUVA. The slipper was bought by businessman Amitabh Kumar. "I was in Connaught Place for a meeting, when I went for a walk to Jantar Mantar after lunch. There I saw a demonstration by YUVA activists, who were auctioning the slipper," he said. "I feel she is a traitor to our nation, so despite the steep price, I bought the slipper thrown at her. I am now going to go on eBay and auction it off. Even if I do not recover the money, I do not care, as it was done for the pride of my nation," he added. _________________________________________________________________ Plug in to the MSN Tech channel for a full update on the latest gizmos that made an impact. http://computing.in.msn.com/ From iram at sarai.net Tue Feb 17 12:19:11 2009 From: iram at sarai.net (Iram Ghufran) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 12:19:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] 'Soul Searching' - A festival of films on the religious, the sacred and the spiritual Message-ID: <499A5DE7.4050905@sarai.net> JAMES BEVERIDGE MEDIA RESOURCE CENTRE AJK Mass Communication Research Centre, Jamia Millia Islamia in collaboration with The International Festival of Sacred Arts, Delhi invites you to a film festival titled Soul Searching… A festival of films on the religious, the sacred and the spiritual Dates: February 23rd, 24th and 25th, 2009 Time: 2 p.m. onwards Venue: Ansari Auditorium, Jamia Millia Islamia, New Delhi 110025 Screening Schedule February 23 Chalo Hamara Des by Shabnam Virmani Scribbles on Akka by Madhusree Dutta February 24 Ocean of Wisdom by Rajiv Mehrotra Eyes of Stone by Nilita Vachani Basant by Yousuf Saeed February 25 Paradise on the River of Hell by Abir Bazaz and Meenu Gaur Khel by Saba Dewan and Rahul Roy Muharram by Yousuf Saeed _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From iram at sarai.net Mon Feb 16 14:42:55 2009 From: iram at sarai.net (Iram Ghufran) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 14:42:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Screening: Khayal Darpan at Ramjas Message-ID: <49992E17.5020900@sarai.net> fwd: KHAYAL DARPAN (A Mirror of Imagination) About classical music in Pakistan Duration: 100 mins. at 1:30 pm, 20th February, 2009 (Friday) at Seminar Room (first floor) Ramjas College, Delhi University, Delhi More details about the film at www.khayaldarpan.info Yousuf Saeed (Kindly forward this message to those in and around the university who may be interested in this film. Thanks) _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Fri Feb 20 17:03:08 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 17:03:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Rs 1 lakh slipper, to be re-auctioned online Message-ID: <6353c690902200333k6c7de7d4l5f3ca5c36b267fcf@mail.gmail.com> Rs 1 lakh slipper, to be re-auctioned online *By:* Anshuman G Dutta, Mid - Day *Date:* 2009-02-20 [image: discuss news article] [image: print news article] [image: email news article] [image: share news article] *Delhi:* It would have been a proud moment for Muntazer al-Zaidi. One of the followers of the journalist, from Iraq's Al-Baghdadia channel who pioneered the shoe movement by throwing it on former US president George Bush, won a whopping Rs 1.01 lakh for a slipper hurled at author-turned-activist Arundhati Roy. The slipper, which was auctioned at Jantar Mantar on Thursday, would be put under the hammer again. This time online. "This is the third most famous piece of footwear after the ones thrown at George Bush and Chinese prime minister Wen Jiabao. But I bought this as a symbolic protest against traitors like Arundahti Roy," said Amitabh Kumar, 30, who offered the highest bid for the slipper. From aryakrish at gmail.com Fri Feb 20 18:13:43 2009 From: aryakrish at gmail.com (aryakrishnan ramakrishnan) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 18:13:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Sufi with the Kalashnikov In-Reply-To: <943778.30959.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <6353c690902152152xabb4a03o36314274371c9da8@mail.gmail.com> <943778.30959.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 2/19/09, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > Praveen Swami is often reviled by some on suspicion of having an 'agenda' > and with a questioning of his 'investigative journalism' credentials. > Presumably it is done because of the subjects he picks up (security; > jihadis, pakistan etc). > > I found very interesting the concluding comments by Parveen Swami in the > article. > > In my opinion, the intial words are an oversimplified generalisation (and > an incorrect one) based on Parveen Swami's conclusions from one Jihadist > case of Abdul Jabbar. True, his writing is divine in nature. He is so convinced about his truth. Also he wrote an opinion piece about Raw a few days back. Such a vivid description of a RAW internal meeting, with each and every details of the meeting. From pawan.durani at gmail.com Fri Feb 20 18:55:12 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 18:55:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Barbarians at the gate, are we ready? Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902200525x395ada36l7df16df5e3bb8863@mail.gmail.com> http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/feb/19barbarians-at-the-gate-are-we-ready.htm February 19, 2009 The recent surrender by the Pakistani State to the Taliban [Images ] in the Swat valley may well turn out to be a watershed in the history of the Indian subcontinent. In terms of long-term impact, this may even overshadow the recent Mumbai [Images ] massacres. All signs point to the 'Talibanisation' of Pakistan. Here are several pointers: - I A Rehman writing in the *Dawn* newspaper on February 12 says 'the Pakistani armed forces were indoctrinated in General Zia-ul Haq's rule to reserve senior posts for genuine Islamists. The Pakistan army [Images ] may have the capacity to kill hordes of people, but it will not -- and cannot -- do that.' The army and the State may well disintegrate if it does. - General Ashfaq Kayani, son of a former soldier, is the first non-elite chief of the Pakistani army. Given his socio-economic background, he is more likely to be part of the 'natural' constituency of the Taliban. - We have the example of Iran -- on February 11, 1979, when the mass upsurge to impose 'Islamic rule' reached its zenith, the Iranian army declared its 'neutrality' in the ongoing conflict. This sealed the fate of the Shah of Iran. A similar happening in Pakistan is very likely. - Slumdog Jihadis: The *Dawn* on December 18, 2008, quoted the Pakistan Planning Commission's Deputy Chairman Sardar Asef Ahmad Ali that poverty had skyrocketed to above 40 per cent in the country, leaving millions helpless. It is these poor/unemployed/uneducated people that are cannon fodder for the jihadis. The interrogation of the lone surviving Mumbai terrorist Ajmal Kasab's [Images ]story fits the bill. There are such 48 million Ajmals waiting in Pakistan to be primed against India. As a student of military history, I found it extraordinary that Indians were always blissfully unaware of developments in their neighbourhood. No ruler of Delhi [Images ]ever woke up when the enemy crossed the Khyber Pass. The first stirrings of action were usually when the enemy was at the gates, at Panipat, just a day's march from Delhi. Indians have been made to totally forget the holocaust that they faced in past; the name Hindukush itself means 'Hindu killer', a reminder of the days when thousands of Indians died on the mountain slopes while being taken to Central Asia as slaves.(the Encyclopaedia Britannica quoting a 12th century traveller Ibn Batua). Nearer our times, the 1981 UN declaration of Universal Human Rights writes; 'Among the genocides of human history, the highest number of people killed in the small span of time is in Bangladesh in 1971. An average of 6,000 to 12 000 people were killed every single day. This is the highest daily average in history.' The lower estimate shows that 15 lakh were killed, a majority of them Hindus. A commission of inquiry appointed by the Pakistan government, the Hamidoor Rehman Commission, has recorded testimonies of Pakistani army officers who have quoted General Amir Abdullah Khan Niazi asking the question 'How many Hindus have you killed today?' as a matter of routine. We have forgotten this recent episode as well. *Demography is destiny* Pakistan has a very high rate of population growth. Although it has declined from three percent at the time of the census in 1981 to the present 1.9 per cent it is still the highest among populous countries of more than 50 million, except Nigeria. The more reliable indicator of population growth is the total fertility rate -- the number of children born to a woman in her reproductive span. Pakistan's TFR is four. A TFR of 2.1 is considered replacement level which leads to a stable population. In Pakistan, the under-15 population is 37 per cent of the total. Given the poor education, health and skills of this youth, they are fodder for jihad and little else. With the mullahs constantly drumming that all of Pakistan's ills are due to the evil Hindu India/Zionist Israel/Christian America troika, Pakistan's biggest export for a long time is likely to be terror. If by some miracle, Pakistan is to implement population control tomorrow, it will take two to three decades for it to take effect. Even if the re-brainwashing was to begin now, again it is bound to take time. The sad fact is that neither of these things is happening either tomorrow or any time soon. *Impact of the economic meltdown* For decades over 25 percent of the Pakistani labour force was employed in the oil-rich Middle East. With the economic downturn and lower oil prices, the boom is over. The Dubai shopping festival was a flop this year. The returning labour force will only add to the unemployment in the country. In any case, Pakistan has very little industry and its agriculture is confined to Punjab and parts of Sindh. Most of the country's landmass is arid and unfit for agriculture. Rural poverty will gallop in the near future. *Ripe for implosion* The politics of extremism as represented by the Taliban, the economic meltdown and demographic pressure all point to a major implosion in Pakistan. Are we ready for the fallout? Despite this threat staring in our face there is a palpable lack of national unity -- another Indian trait. In the last four years, we have let our defence apparatus go to seed, so much so that we have lost the conventional edge over Pakistan. Given this situation the only option for India is to 'isolate and contain' Pakistan. That still leaves the million dollar question about Pakistan's nuclear weapons. Here one hopes that all those joint exercise with special forces of the US, UK, Israel, China and Russia [Images ] were in preparation for this very contingency. If not, then God save the world! *Colonel Dr Anil Athale (retd) is a former joint director, war studies, ministry of defence, and co-ordinator of the Pune-based Initiative for Peace and Disarmament.* From ajmalkamal at gmail.com Fri Feb 20 23:08:04 2009 From: ajmalkamal at gmail.com (Ajmal Kamal) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 12:38:04 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Ajmal Kamal sent you a Friend Request on Yaari Message-ID: <8272928db6db133f5c757fd1ba870bb6@localhost.localdomain> Ajmal Kamal wants you to join Yaari! Is Ajmal your friend? Yes, Ajmal is my friend! No, Ajmal isn't my friend. Please respond or Ajmal may think you said no :( Thanks, The Yaari Team ____ If you prefer not to receive this email tell us here. If you have any concerns regarding the content of this message, please email abuse at yaari.com. Yaari LLC, 358 Angier Ave, Atlanta, GA 30312 YaariZZC297CBE640BXF825QEZ791 From lawrence at altlawforum.org Sat Feb 21 10:43:55 2009 From: lawrence at altlawforum.org (Lawrence Liang) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 10:43:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Screening and Discussion with Pirate Cinema Message-ID: Pirate Cinema Bangalore Presentation, Discussion, Screening Saturday Jan Gerber and Sebastian Luetgert from Pirate Cinema Berlin (www.piratecinema.org) and 0xdb (www.0xdb.org), most recently operating as Pirate Cinema Bombay (www.camputer.org), will introduce the idea of "cinema beyond copyright" -- not only as a set of practices in film-making, or as the inevitable result of peer-to-peer distribution, but also with regards to the creation of new, informal screening spaces, and the emergence of distributed online film archives. Date: 21st Feb 2009 Venue: 1 Shanthi Road, Bangalore Time: 8pm From jeebesh at sarai.net Sat Feb 21 15:09:56 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 15:09:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Narcissism / Faith / Models In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40902191850w4050c303l238f62f08340bc1b@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40902191850w4050c303l238f62f08340bc1b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <60426903-2A67-40B9-94B2-611CCC2A7907@sarai.net> dear Taha, I would think it more about a consensus that accumulates around some visions and modalities in some institutions and schools of thought. This then can have consequences . It more a speculation. I thought the obsession around "models" that this report pointed out was interesting to reflect on. These models had percolated to all forms of social organization (e.g grant making bodies) and has had consequences on the ways life choices, effectivity etc was written and imagined. warmly jeebesh On 20-Feb-09, at 8:20 AM, Taha Mehmood wrote: > Dear Jeebesh > > Going by the grain of the report which you have so kindly posted, > could one similarly argue did Oxbridge law faculty killed the > British rule in India? Because prima facie quite a few of Indian > national leaders went to these universities. Don't you feel such a > reading of any phenomena is perhaps facile? > > Wasn't the assumption in the argument seems to suggest- students > retain some sensibility, some world view, some differentiating marks > of the knowledge exposed at places of learning, such as Department > of Business Management at Harvard. > > Although I am not so sure about how much of an institutional trace > is retained by practitioners, so as to collectively effect a > recession in global economies? > > Warm regards > > Taha > > > > > > From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 21 16:13:11 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 02:43:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "Valentine's Day Of Fornication" Message-ID: <736580.84085.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> "Valentine's Day Massacre"   London, Feb. 3 (ANI): As millions of Brits plan to celebrate St. Valentine's Day this Saturday, the controversial Muslim cleric Anjem Choudary has warned Brit lovers that if they celebrate Valentine's Day they will rot in hell.   The hate preacher slamed the practice of exchanging cards, sending roses or enjoying romantic candlelit dinners, claiming Britain's favourite tradition as "a futile and evil festival", used to justify sinful actions such as free-mixing, promiscuity, vain sexual talk and even fornication, The Daily Star reported.   The London-born lawyer, who in his youth was a cider-drinking ladies' man, posted the 800-word rant on his anti-West website, 'The Islamist'.   The article is headlined, "Valentine's Day Of Fornication" and shows bloody pictures of hearts, while the cover of the magazine shows pictures of Palestinian children killed during last month's attacks by Israel in the Gaza Strip.   The former leader of banned hate group al-Muhajiroun even calls it "Pagan festival" and says it "diverts" people away from "the submission and worship of Allah".   "Many view this day as harmless fun, an opportunity to show love and affections towards spouses and partners by exchanging cards, giving flowers and having candle lit dinners etc, not realising that its origin and current day practices conflict with the teachings of Islam," Choudary wrote.   "The recognition of Valentine's Day opens the door to the Devil to manipulate their behaviour, encouraging them to abandon their Islamic identity and to entertain desires of lust, to engage in pre-marital relations and in other evil practices," he adds, "People should not succumb. Instead we should endeavour to attain the best form of love, which is exclusive love for Allah."   The rant is only the latest in a string of bizarre attacks by the extremist. In December, he told Muslims enjoying Christmas was "the pathway to hellfire and purchasing trees and having Christmas turkey meals are completely prohibited by Allah." (ANI)   http://in.news.yahoo.com/139/20090203/882/twl-valentine-s-day-massacre.html   From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 21 17:58:05 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 04:28:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "Seeing Mumbai From Pakistan" Message-ID: <975172.76831.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> The 101-page report ("Dance of the Devil A Stunning Expose Of Hindu Zionists, Mumbai Attacks & Indian Dossier against Pakistan. The Sinister Alliance of Mossad Covert Black Ops and RAW’s False Flags Operations ") referred to in the posted article can be accessed at:   PART 1 at  http://www.daily.pk/politics/politicalnews/9169-part-1-dance-of-the-devil-a-stunning-expose-of-hindu-zionists-mumbai-attacks-a-indian-dossier-against-pakistan-the-sinister-alliance-of-mossad-covert-black-ops-and-raws-false-flags-operations.html#   PART 2 at http://www.daily.pk/politics/politicalnews/9171-part-2-dance-of-the-devil-a-stunning-expose-of-hindu-zionists-mumbai-attacks-a-indian-dossier-against-pakistan-the-sinister-alliance-of-mossad-covert-black-ops-and-raws-false-flags-operations.html   Kshmendra     FEBRUARY 12, 2009, "Seeing Mumbai From Pakistan"  By MATTHEW ROSENBERG     There's a report on the Mumbai attacks that has been making the rounds in Pakistan, e-mailed between friends in the last few weeks and occasionally ending up on the desk of one official or another. Its title pretty much sums up its content: "Mumbai: Dance of the Devil; Hindu Zionists, Mumbai Attacks and the Indian Dossier against Pakistan."   The dossier referred to in the title is a packet of evidence the Indians handed over to Pakistan in early January. They, along with the U.S. and its allies say it provides clear evidence linking a Pakistani Islamic militant group, Lashkar-e-Taiba, to the Mumbai attacks. It's an accusation that few outside Pakistan dispute.   Inside Pakistan, it's a different story, as the "Dance of the Devil" shows. If you're wondering why it has taken Pakistan so long to acknowledge that its people were the key players in the Mumbai attack – as India and the U.S. have been saying from the outset and Pakistani Interior Ministry chief Rehman Malik said Thursday – the report offers the start of an answer.   The gist of the 101-page report, prepared by a hawkish security think tank, is that Hindu extremists working with Israeli Mossad agents plotted and carried out the attacks. Their aim: destroy Pakistan by sparking a fourth India-Pakistan war that would force Islamabad to pull its forces away from the fight against the Taliban and al Qaeda on the border with Afghanistan. That, in turn, would give the Americans an excuse to send their forces from Afghanistan into Pakistan, and eventually dismember it and take away its nuclear weapons at the behest of the Hindu radicals and Israeli conspirators.   The report relies on a mix of circumstantial evidence and fringe Indian writings and is easily dismissed, even by many in Pakistan.   But the paranoid worldview it represents isn't, and for every Pakistani that dismisses it there are plenty of others who don't. You hear it from Pakistani officials, like the one who pulled out the report during an interview and told me: "You should read it. It makes an interesting case."   You hear it from ordinary people, like Mohammed Khan, a 43-year-old shopkeeper in Islamabad. He hadn't read "Dance of the Devil" but when asked about the Mumbai attacks, he didn't miss a beat: "How come they always blame Pakistan. What about the Hindus? What about the Jews?"   You hear it from officers in the powerful Inter-Services Intelligence spy agency, elements of which Indian officials allege played some part in the Mumbai attack, a charge Islamabad denies. One ISI officer, in a conversation before the report began circulating, conveyed pretty much the same theory and said that it was making the rounds among Pakistani military officers and intelligence agents. He said he didn't believe it, but that many of his colleagues did. "It tells you how some of us see the world," he said.   Again, it's not to say that everyone believes such theories, But you do hear them from a lot of people in a lot of different quarters.   Consider the massive September truck bombing that gutted Islamabad's Marriott Hotel. The Pakistani government says it was the work of Islamic militants. But a recent poll by Washington-based International Republican Institute found that while 7% of Pakistanis believed it was the work of the Taliban or "terrorists," 13% thought the government was behind it and 20% believed it was the work of the Americans. Half of those polled said they were unsure.   Those who disbelieve the conspiracy theories explain their prevalence partly as a function of Pakistan's creation in the bloody partition of Britain's Indian colony, forever destined to be smaller – and weaker – than India. From that point on, many in Pakistan have assumed that India, if given the chance, would destroy Pakistan. Watching the U.S. and Israel grow closer to India over the past few years has only added another wrinkle for those who already fear Indian domination.   Take the ISI officer. He may not believe that the U.S. and Israel are actively working to destroy Pakistan. But he does believe both countries would gladly deprive Pakistan of its nuclear weapons, and that India remains a mortal threat.   "You convince us differently and that will solve a lot of differences," he said.   —Mr. Rosenberg is The Wall Street Journal's Pakistan correspondent. Write to Matthew Rosenberg at matthew.rosenberg at wsj.com   http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123444626418577381.html#articleTabs%3Dcomments     From yasir.media at gmail.com Sun Feb 22 16:21:53 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?windows-1256?B?eWFzaXIgfu3HINPR?=) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 12:51:53 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: People's Resistance - Independant Judiciary Seminar - 23 Feb 630pm PMA House In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0902220250t6a5900edocf9004f410808c3c@mail.gmail.com> References: <5af37bb0902220243v65d3526aqbceec415b69210e6@mail.gmail.com> <5af37bb0902220248t64816679k6bd4c5b8c5538cae@mail.gmail.com> <5af37bb0902220250t6a5900edocf9004f410808c3c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0902220251t6f1e121fj7b22b1ab2410e775@mail.gmail.com> People's Resistance Press Release - 22 February 2009 Karachi Movement to Restore Independant Judiciary: Truths, Myths & Realities A Seminar The Peoples Resistance (PR) is hosting a seminar titled "Movement to Restore Independent Judiciary: Truths, Myths and Realities" on Monday Feburary 23rd, 2009 at 6:30 PM at PMA House. Speakers at the seminar include Muneer Malik and Rasheed Rizvi, senior lawyers from the Bar Associations, Judge Mushir Alam and Samina Noman, lawyer who will also represent PR. When former President General Musharraf removed Chief Justice Ifthikar Chaudhry in 2007, declared "Emergency" and implemented the PCO, few would have guessed that hundreds of lawyers, citizens, civil society activists would came out in the streets in support of rule of Law in Pakistan and demand Justice. The movement has had its critics, yet we still see hundreds of people from every province, every class come out and stand up for the restoration of the Judiciary and the rule of Law. Now that A LONG MARCH HAS BEEN CALLED for March 12th, 2008, over 30,000 people are expected to protest in Islamabad, to affirm their rights as citizens and to raise their voices for the rule of law - a most significant event in Pakistan's history. Come listen to the people who have been at the forefront on the movement as they talk about the successes, the myths and realities of the last two years. The Peoples Resistance invites you to a seminar on the "Movement to Restore Independent Judiciary: Truth, Myths and Realities". The speakers will not only track the history of the movement but will speak about restoration and revivial of the institution itself. The Peoples Resistance (PR) is a civil society organisation - a citizen's group and a loose coalition - composed of ordinary citizens, professionals, students and other human rights groups who work together for the common cause of : upholding the Constitution, restoration of Judiciary and implementing rule of Law. //end From vibhaaurora at gmail.com Sun Feb 22 18:05:45 2009 From: vibhaaurora at gmail.com (Dr. Vibha Arora) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 18:05:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fieldwork and Interdisciplinary Modes of Knowing Message-ID: <10d6c6990902220435n2a83f9co837fc8e99023a92e@mail.gmail.com> FYI: this may be of interest to some readers of this list-serv. *Reconstruction 9.1, 2009: Fieldwork & Interdisciplinary Modes of Knowing* *Co-editors - Vibha Arora and Justin Scott-Coe* http://reconstruction.eserver.org TOC *Introduction* Vibha Arora and Justin Scott-Coe, "Fieldwork and Interdisciplinary Research" *Articles* *Locating the self in the Field* ** Irmi Karl, "Technology and Women's Lives: Queering Media Ethnography" Rhonda Dass, "Avoiding the Peep Show: Talking from within the Tattoo Community" Rina Sherman, "Reading Between the Lines: Understanding Assistants in Fieldwork" *Knowing as Experience* *and Performance* ** Elizabeth Wood and Kiersten F. Latham, "Object Knowledge: Researching Objects in the Museum Experience" Alyssa Grossman and Selena Kimball, "The Memory Archive: Filmic Collaborations in Art and Anthropology" Lauren Jones & Jonathan Arries, "Searching for Conscientização: Mentoring Fieldwork in International Service-learning" Brian Winkenweder, "The Homometrics of eInterviews" Kate Rossmanith, "Making Theatre-Making: Fieldwork, rehearsal and performance-preparation" *Interdisciplinary Modes of Knowing* ** Christina Weber, "Methodological Approaches to Studying the Social Monad: A Consideration of Interdisciplinary Sociological Research" Rachel Hurst, "Complicated Conversations between Interviewing and Psychoanalytic Theory" Robert Moses Peaslee, "Practice in mediated space: Engaging 'Hobbiton' and its visitors through a constructivist media anthropology" *Review Essays* Marc Ouellette on Laurie Ouellete and James Hay's Better Living through Reality TV: Television and Post-Welfare Citizenship Sandy Marshall on S. Nutall and A Mmembe, eds. Johannesburg: The Elusive Metropolis *Reviews * Davin Heckman on Bernard Steigler's Acting Out. Trans. David Barison, Daniel Ross, and Patrick Crogan Bennett Huffman on Ruth Van Dyke's The Chaco Experience: Landscape and Ideology at the Center Place -- Dr Vibha Arora http://web.iitd.ac.in/~aurora/ Assistant Professor in Sociology and Cultural Anthropology Dept of Humanities and Social Sciences The Indian Institute of Technology, Hauz Khas, New Delhi 110016 INDIA aurora at hss.iitd.ac.in; vibhaaurora at yahoo.com From anansi1 at earthlink.net Sun Feb 22 20:15:37 2009 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul D. Miller) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 09:45:37 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [Reader-list] Slumdog: An Idiots' Guide to India Message-ID: <9706403.1235313938460.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I just thought I'd pass this on... See ya at the OScars, hah! Paul An Idiots' Guide to India By Hirsh Sawhney Guardian (UK) February 21, 2009 http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/feb/20/danny-boyle-india Slumdog Millionaire's implication that western values offer a way out of the slums is a dangerous myth When India's call centres and booming economy began to grab headlines, writers and filmmakers attempted to woo western audiences with tales from the subcontinent. Some of these works were nuanced and sophisticated, like Richie Mehta's recent film Amal or Suketu Mehta's bestselling book Maximum City. But many of them were designed to cash in on the India craze and provide digestible titbits about the country's culture and history to western audiences - India for idiots, if you will. Danny Boyle's Slumdog Millionaire, the runaway favourite for the best picture Oscar tomorrow night, is precisely one of these simplistic texts. It contains a smattering of all the major Indian hot buttons: call centres, religious riots, urban development, sex workers, the Taj Mahal - and, of course, slums. The film, which traces the life of Jamal Malik from the devastatingly poor streets of Mumbai to his deliverance on the TV game show Who Wants to be a Millionaire, has elicited some furious reactions in India. Many have pointed out that the slum children Boyle used as actors weren't fairly compensated for their performances. A group of protestors in the city of Patna burned Slumdog posters and ransacked a theatre where the film was being screened, claiming that film's depiction of slum dwellers was a "violation of human rights." Some Indian commentators insinuated that the movie has been successful in the west because uses "poverty porn" to "titillate foreign audiences". At the other end of the spectrum, Slumdog's admirers assert that those who whine about the film are guilty of "patriotic indignation" and lack "genuine anger and concern" about India's horrific poverty. Fans not only find the film upbeat, colourful and entertaining, they also applaud the fact that it sheds light on the state of slums. The Indian romance novelist Shobhaa De claimed that it has taken an outsider like Boyle "to go fearlessly into 'No Man's Land' and hold up a mirror to our sordid society." Yes, Boyle deserves a pat on the back for diving into Mumbai's entrails and drawing attention to its poverty. But it's a mistake to label him original for shedding light on India's underbelly. Before him, scores of filmmakers - from the iconic Guru Dutt to today's Madhu Bhandarkar - have decried inequity and portrayed India honestly, warts and all. The legendary Raj Kapoor even employed a mixture of fantasy and realism that pre- dates Boyle's masala formula for cinematic success. But it's also clear that Boyle's version of the third world, complete with fetidness and depravity, is particularly gratifying to our UK and US sensibilities. Why? Because it grossly oversimplifies poverty and our relationship with it. After watching the film, viewers are left to infer that slums are horrid, rancid places because of beggar masters, Hindu zealots and Muslim gangs. Of course these forces play their role in perpetuating misery. But in reality, slums are an international problem caused by an intricate set of entities: corrupt government officials, gargantuan multinational corporations and suspect IMF structural adjustment programs. Playing it safe, Boyle doesn't implicate any of these entities. As a result, his movie does allow us to believe that we have been responsible global citizens by engaging with the intensity of third world slums. We in the audience even feel genuine sympathy for destitution. But at no point do we have to forsake the delusion that abject poverty and inequity are strictly foreign things for which we share no culpability. In fact, far from spreading the blame for global poverty, Boyle's film actually suggests that the west is the solution to India's problems. Protagonist Jamal only escapes his ceaseless cycle of squalor and crime once he makes it into the orderly, democratic world of a British call centre. This call centre, in turn, delivers him to his fateful redemption on Millionaire. The subtext is clear: things are really bad in urban India but healthy servings of western values are just what the doctor - and the Academy judges - ordered. Of course, many relish this action-packed fairy tale. It reinforces the notion that our policies and mindsets are righteous and can rid the world of its troubles. Stories that perpetuate this myth are especially appealing right now. In the wake of a grave economic collapse and a wretched, unending war, we have to begin the painful process of questioning the integrity of our way of life. A movie like Slumdog allows us to put that off for a few more minutes. ________ Hirsh Sawhney is a contributing editor at Brooklyn Rail and Wasafiri Magazine. He has written for the TLS, Financial Times, Time Out New York and Outlook. From vashsand at hotmail.com Mon Feb 23 00:48:22 2009 From: vashsand at hotmail.com (Sandeep) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 20:18:22 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmiri roots of art unravelled Message-ID: IT seem ARKaul has serious problems with somras and human laps, what else one expect of copycat Islamist. As far as im concerned, i drink in hope that thes islamists and their copycat hindutva brethen start drinking somras and enjoy life. But it seems they need lot of therapy, so girls start reading freud. bye for now, cu at next breakdown Cheers Sandeep _________________________________________________________________ Show them the way! Add maps and directions to your party invites. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/events.aspx From shuddha at sarai.net Mon Feb 23 09:52:36 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 09:52:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 'Encounter' at Batla House: Unanswered Questions Message-ID: Dear all, This list has had discussion on the so called 'encounter' at Batla House, in the vicinity of Jamia Nagar in New Delhi in the past year. Here is a synopsis and a few details of the recently released 'report' by the Jamia Teachers Solidarity Group about this incident. I hope that readers on this list will find this of interest. regards, Shuddha ------------- 'Encounter' at Batla House: Unanswered Questions A Report by Jamia Teachers' Solidarity group 60 pp., Rs 35, February 2009. For Copies contact: Adil Mehdi (9990923027) indianlit at yahoo.com / Ahmed Sohaib (9899462042) sohaibnirvan at gmail.com / Ghazi Shahnawaz (9868221506) mgshahnawaz at gmail.com Synopsis: This report is based on police statements, press reports, testimonies of families and friends of the accused and other documentary evidence. It highlights the numerous contradictions in the police version(s) about the 'encounter' and the accusations. Some of the questions raised are: 1) Did the police have prior information about the presence of dreaded 'terrorists' in L-18 when they raided the flat? So far, conflicting versions have been provided by the police. In one version, they claim ignorance of such confirmed information, pleading that they went in only for a routine recee and were ambushed (then how did the Police Commissioner within hours declare Atif and Sajid to be the mastermind behind all blasts since 2005, when Sajid would have been 14-years-old); and in another, they claim to have put Atif under surveillance since 26th July 2008 (so how did these boys manage to plant bombs all over the city right under the Delhi Police's nose?) 2) Were the Police men wearing Bullet proof vests (BPV) or not? In some statements, the Delhi Police said that they avoided wearing the BPVs in order not to alert the 'terrorists'; in yet other statement they claim that their officer escaped all injury while firing upon an armed Sajid because he was wearing a BPV. 3) What explains the injury marks on the bodies of the deceased boys? Atif's back was sloughed off and Sajid had bullet wounds on his head as though bullets had been pumped into his head while he was made to kneel―all of which raises doubts about the genuineness of the 'shootout'. 4) The Police claim that Sajid was an expert bomb maker who used quartz clocks, detonators, ammonium nitrate, yet none of the 'recoveries' which even the police have purportedly made, comprise any of the above material that could be used for making Sajid's 'signature' bombs. So what made Dadwal and his force conclude that Sajid was the one behind the blasts in Delhi and elsewhere? 5) Why is there such rigid resistance to any independent probe on the part of the government and the Delhi Police? So much so that the Lieutenant Governor has even rejected a magisterial enquiry, which is mandatory as per NHRC guidelines on encounter killings. 6) Why are post-mortem reports of all the three killed not being made public? Is there something to hide? The report also carries brief profiles of the accused in the case, including the two students killed. The fact that most of them were students enrolled in educational institutions, whether Jamia or elsewhere, or working gives the impression that they were regular young men in search of better opportunities in life. None of their actions puts them under suspicion: they enrolled as students, bought sim cards in their name, signed a rent lease deed, duly verified by the police (copy in report), provided genuine address details etc. Moreover, the day after the blasts in Delhi, there were several arrests and detentions in the Jamia Nagar area, which was common knowledge. It is highly unlikely that actual terrorists would make no attempt to move away from a neighbourhood which was obviously under the police scanner to a safer hideout. Testimonies of eyewitnesses at the Jan Sunwai (12 Oct 2008, Batla House) have also been included in the report. Neighbours testified that they found nothing strange or suspicious about the boys and resented the fact that no senior local resident was taken into confidence or to crosscheck any information about suspected terrorists. The manner in which the police operated raised suspicions about their real motives. Further, they also said that while the operation was on, the policemen could be seen throwing pots etc on to the 4th floor flat of L-18, and that they heard gun shots of only one kind. This naturally raises the misgiving that the police was trying to create an impression of cross fire and struggle, where none existed. 'Encounter' at Batla House also highlights the contradictions in the 'mastermind' theories developed by various state police departments. In addition, it carries profiles of all those illegally detained by the Delhi Police Special Cell in connection with the Delhi blasts; a section on virtual terror that anti-terror or special cells of the police departments unleash in the name of fighting terror: illegal detentions, false recoveries, forging evidence etc. Special reference is made to the case of Irshad Ali and Md. Qamar, who were implicated in a false terror case by a team of the Delhi Police Special Cell. Incidentally, many members of this team were part of the Batla House 'encounter' too. Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From pawan.durani at gmail.com Mon Feb 23 09:55:45 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 09:55:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fareed Zarkaria Unmasked In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902222025p3910ff4dn68a7ae7d1c0afd40@mail.gmail.com> Dear Naveed Nasir, Thank you for your curiousness.It is good that you asked me this question that would explain me why some Kashmiri Pandits have this surname. I feel sorry to say that your understanding of my 'Durani' surname is wrong. Here goes the correct version. It is not only during Panipat battle , but Kashmir for a long time was also under Afghan rule. Afghan fanatics , as usual were illiterate and believed in might of sword and the kingdom did need some intelligent people who can read, write and keep records. At that time they did not have any choice in Kashmir , but to chose among local Kashmiri Hindus. One of my great great grandfather was supposed to be one such 'minister' during the Afghan rule in Kashmir. He was supposed to be very brave and in one incident when Dal lake was frozen, he is supposed to have ran his horse over the frozen dal. The Afghan king was surprised to see this bravery in a Kashmiri Hindu and he called all public and said that it was rare to find such a brave Kashmiri Hindu who was 'as brave as a Afghan Durani'. He later ordered all to refer us as "Durani' only. All Kashmiri Hindu Duranis are from the Gotra 'Pat Swami Kasushika' . You would be surprised that you would even find 'Khan' as a surname of Kashmiri Hindu and 'Pandit' as a surname of Kashmiri Muslim. For more details , please check http://www.koausa.org/Names/Gotras.html God Bless .........and would you kindly share what was the surname of your great great great grandfather ? Regards Pawan Durani On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 5:21 AM, Naveed Nasir wrote: > Dear Pawan Durani > You did good job Unmasking F. Zakaria. It is really impressing. However, > Just to understand better, your article, can you help me unmask your > background? It appeasers that from the father side you are a Durani. Now > historically the only time the Durani ( properly spelled Durrani) have the > physical contacts with the Indian was during the 3rd War of Panipat, with > the left behind families of run away and defeated Marhata Army. If i am > right, then you only have to explain me why did not the Durranis, took those > families with them to Afghanistan and left them again behind? Off course it > is sad and dejecting, whatsoever is the reason, to left and rejected > twice!! > From aarti_wani at rediffmail.com Mon Feb 23 10:32:24 2009 From: aarti_wani at rediffmail.com (aartiwani wani) Date: 23 Feb 2009 05:02:24 -0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Culture of Terror-cfp Message-ID: <20090223050224.18854.qmail@f5mail-237-209.rediffmail.com> The Culture of Terror: Theme Issue, Studies in South Asian Film and Media, December 2009 Submissions are invited for an issue dedicated to exploring the theme, “The culture of terror” in relation to media practices and technologies, representational politics, ideology, and discourses in contemporary South Asian media, culture, and society. Historically, the function of state terror, as in the Middle Ages, was to strike fear by presenting a spectacle so violent and graphic that a repetition of the actions which earned such wrath might be prevented. Terror, in all its contemporary variants, is as much about representation, about shock and awe, as it is about inflicting real injury and destruction. We invite essays that examine the symbolic and material manifestations of terror, in South Asian media and culture, from interdisciplinary, historical, critical and theoretical perspectives. We are especially interested in essays that bring the insights of anthropology, sociology, history, and political theory to bear upon contemporary media and culture. At the same time, we are looking for close analysis of the aesthetics of terror, its representational forms and strategies and the kinds of publics and subjectivities that it generates. Topics may include but are not limited to the following: The representations of terrorism in contemporary South Asian cinema, television, documentary Gender, sexuality and the culture of terror Art as resistance The representation of memory and trauma in visual culture Citizen vigilantism, police brutality, and the culture of fear News and terrorism New media technologies and surveillance: The State and the Neoliberal Subject Religious fundamentalism and the politics of terror Hindutva and its cultural politics The globalization of terror Technologies of surveillance and representation Procedure for submission March 30th : 500 word abstract July 31: First draft September 18: Final draft Send abstracts/enquiries to: aaj.safm at gmail.com Happiness has to do with reason,and only reason earns it.-Ursula Leguin From vrjogi at hotmail.com Mon Feb 23 13:28:00 2009 From: vrjogi at hotmail.com (Vedavati Jogi) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 07:58:00 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] FW: Yet another Booker for Arundhati Roy.. In-Reply-To: <6353c690902200456h6c0beb00o2e356e816c8e307d@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690902200443v546ecd05w4d1430a5e29b5afe@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902200456h6c0beb00o2e356e816c8e307d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Yet another Booker for Arundhati Roy.. Courtesy: Hindustan Times When Arundhati Roy visited the Delhi University campus on February 13, she was greeted with a slipper thrown by student group Youth Unity for Vibrant Action (YUVA). The slipper was auctioned for Rs 101, 000 at Jantar Mantar on Thursday. "When Arundhati Roy came to our campus, a member named Asif Kumar threw his slipper at her to protest her statement that Kashmir should be given to Pakistan. Her statement is against our national interest," said Jairam Pandey, national convenor, YUVA. The slipper was bought by businessman Amitabh Kumar. "I was in Connaught Place for a meeting, when I went for a walk to Jantar Mantar after lunch. There I saw a demonstration by YUVA activists, who were auctioning the slipper," he said. For more with picture visit - http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/2009/02/yet-another-booker-for-arundhati-roy.html Comments are welcome on the blog! For Roots In Kashmir Aditya Raj Kaul _________________________________________________________________ Chose your Life Partner! Join MSN Matrimony FREE http://www.in.msn.com/matrimony From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Feb 23 14:18:24 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 14:18:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Nostalgia, Coffee and Love.. In-Reply-To: <6353c690902220611t5227b2d6ia801dd83ce7e027e@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690902220611t5227b2d6ia801dd83ce7e027e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690902230048wefb954en166a900d1cea0617@mail.gmail.com> Nostalgia, Coffee and Love.. Winter Chill is all it takes to make me jump out in action. The raised eyebrows of the not so warmly sun catch my eye just every morning, only to make me slip deep each time into the tent of my blanket. Warm soft as silk. This long blanket has been a companion for few years now. Years which have pushed me into the maddening pace of life, pricked me to settle a foot in the most appropriate way and further thrown, pulled and yet again thrown me aside in a corner unnoticed, alone. It has been a pushcart journey on a rickety road..a long road indeed! I've been punctual all these years I talk about. Late to sleep and late to rise has been an interesting unstoppable practise which lingers on even now. This isn't just my lazy attitude but a strong rational reason attached. During the day the commotion, the activities of all but me, the colours and not so colours of life have a way to move on without a break. The peace within is lost. Lost until night falls and supper ends. As the tungsten bulbs switch off, my lights turn on. The peace within discovers me at this moment. Not always though. All these years there has been change all over. Though my evening coffee on a Friday still makes its way almost always. The group meets over a filtered coffee and piles of planning, work and strategy build-up. The Palak Pakorasstill have the same taste with Red Tomato sauce at the Indian Coffee House (ICH) in Cannought Place.The roof-top here remains dark during the evening rush hour. The furniture is old, and the walls have lost their charm. continue reading with pictures at - http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/2009/02/nostalgia-coffee-and-love.html Comments welcome on the blog! thanks Aditya Raj Kaul From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Feb 23 15:44:07 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 15:44:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 2000-yr-old Shiva shrine found Message-ID: <6353c690902230214m18458010h7d0a8968ef88ffb4@mail.gmail.com> Shivratri magic it seems.. Keep reading.. 2000-yr-old Shiva shrine found 23 Feb 2009, 0327 hrs IST, Shailvee Sharda, TNN Link - http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/2000-yr-old-Shiva-shrine-found-in-UP/articleshow/4172761.cms LUCKNOW: Believed to be among the oldest brick shrines in India, Lucknow University's department of ancient Indian history and archaeology [image: 2000-yr-old Shiva shrine found] Shiva temple unearthed by a team from Lucknow University's ancient Indian history and archaeology department (TOI) More Pictures has unearthed a 2,000-year-old Shiva temple as part of its excavation project recently in Uttar Pradesh's Unnao district. ''It's actually a complex comprising five temples,'' Prof D P Tewari of the Lucknow University said. ''While four temples belong to the Kushana period (1st-3rd century AD or 2,000 years ago), it appears that the primary temple was constructed during the Sunga period (2nd century BC to 1st century AD or 2,200 years ago).'' The temple site is a mound in Sanchankot in Unnao. The excavations have been going on since 2004, when UGC cleared the project for funding. ''A lot of things have come to fore since we began, but the temple complex has suddenly given impetus to our research,'' said Prof Tewari. Spread across an area of 600 acres, the temple is made of baked bricks. In India, most of the brick temples were built in the Gupta period which existed in the fourth century AD. The temple's architecture is 'apsidal' (semi-circular or u-shaped) in nature. The LU has many artifacts to conclude that Lord Shiva was worshipped in this temple. Prof Tewari said, ''A terracotta seal bearing the legend of 'Kaalanjar peeth' in Brahmi script was found from the site in Dec 2008.'' A shivling, trishul, nandi bull, and a river are inscribed over the seal. The legend of 'Kaalanjar peeth' is inscribed just below the river. From oishiksircar at gmail.com Tue Feb 24 12:22:50 2009 From: oishiksircar at gmail.com (OISHIK SIRCAR) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 12:22:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 'Empires, States, and Migration': MCRG Third Critical Studies Conference In-Reply-To: <62cba67a0902232252p4e25b7c5x2dd8ac8dc1cffa0e@mail.gmail.com> References: <62cba67a0902232252p4e25b7c5x2dd8ac8dc1cffa0e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <62cba67a0902232252i2164532av204b8f66d5342baa@mail.gmail.com> *Apologies for Cross-posting* About five years ago the Calcutta Research Group (CRG) started hosting meetings to link with various strands of critical thinking on issues of our time and having great stakes in our lives. The First Critical Studies Conference (July 2005) deliberated on What is Autonomy? The Second Critical Studies Conference (September 2007) focused on Spheres of Justice. Research papers, discussion notes, commentaries, and volumes came out of these meets. More important, besides large number of participants from within India, scholars and thinkers from various countries cutting across the post-colonial divides attended the two deliberations, and were able to forge links and exchange ideas. *The Third Critical Studies Conference will be held in Kolkata on 11-12 September 2009. **The theme is - Empires, States, and Migration.* Please find enclosed the concept note of the conference. Responses and inquiries are welcome. Kindly also circulate the notification. For details of the announcement, please visit the CRG website - www.mcrg.ac.in. Mahanirban Calcutta Research Group GC 45 (First Floor), Sector 3, Salt Lake Kolkata 700106, India Ph: + 91-33-23370408 Fax: + 91-33-23371523 E-mail: ranabir at mcrg.ac.in; mcrg at mcrg.ac.in Web: www.mcrg.ac.in -- OISHIK SIRCAR oishiksircar at gmail.com oishik.sircar at utoronto.ca From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 24 15:02:08 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 01:32:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "Stand up to the mullahs" - Vir Sanghvi Message-ID: <845139.72202.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Vir Sanghvi seems to have been provoked into writing this piece by the protest by Muslims against The Statesman which had reproduced an article by Johann Hari "Why should I respect these oppressive religions?" first published in The Independent (UK).   EXTRACTS:   - It is now clear that the liberal society has been suckered into relaxing its standards for free speech by militant Islamists.   - But so what if Muslims cannot visually represent their Prophet? Why should non-Muslims be bound by their religious edicts? Why should non-believing Muslims be forced by liberal society to obey the restrictions of their religion?   - Believers should follow what the Holy Book and the mullahs say. But why should the rest of us? Why should we abandon our right to free expression?   - Nobody I know has ever explained why the double standards are justified.   - The real reason we give in to Islamic fanatics is the desire for a peaceful life or, to put it another way, cowardice.   - Every one of their objections is always framed in terms of violence. Ban The Satanic Verses or we will kill Salman Rushdie. Apologise for the Danish cartoons or we will offer a reward for the head of the cartoonist. Arrest the editor of the Statesman or we will shut Calcutta down by rioting in the streets.   - Faced with these threats, we abandon our principles and say things like, “Come on, is a single article worth the death of so many people?” or “Let’s just ban the book, otherwise these guys will keep rioting.”   - The fanatics know this. They have identified the cowardice at the heart of our liberalism. So every demand is a) pitched in terms of protecting the religious sentiments of the Muslim community or b) facing murder, mayhem and more.   - Almost every single time, we cave in. Either we say that Islam is a peaceful religion. Or we get death threats.   -  Isn’t it time to finally stand up to these thugs and blackmailers? It is up to the Muslim community to rein in its fanatics and some moderates are indeed trying to do this.   - But as far as secular society is concerned, our position should be clear. We believe in free speech as guaranteed by our Constitution, not as defined by the mullahs.   Kshmendra     "Stand up to the mullahs" Vir Sanghvi, Hindustan Times February 21, 2009   If you have missed the controversy that led to the arrest of the editor of The Statesman in Calcutta for offending religious sentiments — which you might have, because the national media downplayed the issue — then here’s what it is about.   The Statesman reproduced an article by Johann Hari, the young liberal British commentator, from The Independent. Hari’s politics are clear: he stands up for secularism (for which he has won awards), tolerance (he has defended Islam against such critics as Mark Steyn) and environmental concerns.   The column in question was about attempts by the governments of some Islamic states to alter the UN’s commitment to free speech. These governments argue that free speech must be restricted on grounds of offence to religion and that discussions of certain issues relating to the rights of women must be curtailed because they could be anti-Islamic.   Hari makes the obvious objections to all of this and then says that religion can often be oppressive. So, why should people be stopped from speaking out against it? He quotes examples of regressive practices from all religions and says that just because these occur in accounts of the lives of gods, messiahs or prophets, that does not make them above criticism.   Who could possibly object to that?   Well, a small section of politically-motivated Islamic fanatics in Calcutta, that’s who.   As the people who rioted did not seem like typical Statesman readers (they were not genteel Bengalis, aged 60 and above), it is a fair assumption that some cynical leader of an extreme faction of the Muslim community told his followers about the ‘grave insult to Islam” and sent them off to riot.   The CPI(M) government then arrested The Statesman’s editor and publisher. But the arrest — though clearly unjustified — seems to have been largely symbolic. They were quickly released and the mobs, satisfied that “action had been taken”, melted away.   Several points need to be made about the incident.   First: The article itself. There is not one line in Hari’s piece that I would disagree with. If religions deserve respect, then so does atheism. Followers of religions have every right to their views and practices. But so do atheists have the right to criticise religion. Nothing in this world is above criticism.   Two: The rioters said they were offended by a passage in the article where Hari referred to the Prophet’s marriage to a much younger woman and his directive to burn Jewish villages. (In all fairness, he was as critical of other religions and of the Israeli assault on the West Bank.)   The rioters say that nobody can criticise any aspect of the Prophet’s life.   Why?   There’s no shortage of books and articles criticising Jesus, suggesting that he might have been secretly married (as in The DaVinci Code), arguing that the resurrection was a hoax or that Mary was never a virgin.   Similarly, would mainstream Hindus be offended if somebody wrote that Hindu mythology features practices that we would find abhorrent today: one wife for five husbands as in the Mahabharat, the compulsive philandering of Krishna or the appalling mistreatment of Sita (the agni pariksha etc)?   Some Hindu extremists may protest but I doubt if they would get very far with their objections. The community, as a whole, would shrug its shoulders and many Hindus will agree with the critics.   And yet, it is an article of faith with Muslims — even moderate ones — that the Prophet’s life is beyond reproach.   Does this make any sense?   Three: It is now clear that the liberal society has been suckered into relaxing its standards for free speech by militant Islamists.   Let’s take the most obvious example. Every liberal I know is outraged by the attacks on MF Husain. Why shouldn’t he paint nude Saraswatis? That’s his right. If people are offended by the paintings, they shouldn’t see them.   So far, so good. But now imagine that Husain had painted an extremely reverential portrait of the Prophet. (Never mind cartoons, nude pictures etc.)   There would have been riots. And even secular liberals would not have supported him.   We would have said: Islam prohibits any visual representation of the Prophet so Husain has committed a great crime.   But so what if Muslims cannot visually represent their Prophet? Why should non-Muslims be bound by their religious edicts? Why should non-believing Muslims be forced by liberal society to obey the restrictions of their religion?   Believers should follow what the Holy Book and the mullahs say. But why should the rest of us? Why should we abandon our right to free expression?   Nobody I know has ever explained why the double standards are justified.   Four: The reason we are suckered into accepting these double standards is because Muslim politicians play good cop-bad cop.   Look, they say, we are all for freedom of speech. But if you say anything that the fanatics object to, then they will take to the streets, burn property and hurt innocent people. We will do our best to pacify our community, but you must remove any provocation that will cause the hardliners to revolt.   Turn this around. How would Muslims have reacted if Hindu moderates had said to them: Look, we think this whole Ram Janmbhoomi thing is nonsense. But the BJP will gain support on this platform. So why don’t you agree to move the Babri Masjid? It’s not even a functioning mosque. That way, we remove the provocation and rid the hardliners of their issue and ensure communal harmony.   Well, Hindu moderates did say this. And we know how moderate Muslim politicians reacted.   Five: The real reason we give in to Islamic fanatics is the desire for a peaceful life or, to put it another way, cowardice.   Every one of their objections is always framed in terms of violence. Ban The Satanic Verses or we will kill Salman Rushdie. Apologise for the Danish cartoons or we will offer a reward for the head of the cartoonist. Arrest the editor of the Statesman or we will shut Calcutta down by rioting in the streets.   Faced with these threats, we abandon our principles and say things like, “Come on, is a single article worth the death of so many people?” or “Let’s just ban the book, otherwise these guys will keep rioting.”   The fanatics know this. They have identified the cowardice at the heart of our liberalism. So every demand is a) pitched in terms of protecting the religious sentiments of the Muslim community or b) facing murder, mayhem and more.   Almost every single time, we cave in.   Either we say that Islam is a peaceful religion.   Or we get death threats.   And finally: Isn’t it time to finally stand up to these thugs and blackmailers? It is up to the Muslim community to rein in its fanatics and some moderates are indeed trying to do this.   But as far as secular society is concerned, our position should be clear. We believe in free speech as guaranteed by our Constitution, not as defined by the mullahs.   Anything less would be a betrayal of the liberal, secular values we hold dear.   http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/Print.aspx?Id=630b8c69-4672-4e12-ac2a-a9073f5165d4   http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePage&id=630b8c69-4672-4e12-ac2a-a9073f5165d4&MatchID1=4932&TeamID1=7&TeamID2=8&MatchType1=1&SeriesID1=1247&PrimaryID=4932&Headline=Stand+up+to+the+mullahs       From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 24 15:28:45 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 01:58:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Where are the (usual) Liberal/Secular voices of SARAI Reader List? Message-ID: <832661.92686.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> My posting of "Stand up to the mullahs" by Vir Sanghvi reminded me of my posting on 12/02/09 of "Johann Hari: Why should I respect these oppressive religions? (Muslims protest)"   Apart from Taraprakash no one else commented on that posting.   Wonder why the usual bunch of Liberal/Secular voices on SARAI Reader List selectively (and with obvious bias) practice their Liberalism/Secularism/Expression-Freedomism.   Would it have been any different if in an analogous situation it had be "Hindus" protesting instead of "Muslims"? Undoubtedly Yes.   Kshmendra   "Johann Hari: Why should I respect these oppressive religions? (Muslims protest)"   Ravindra Kumar (Editor)and Anand Sinha (Publisher) of The Statesman-Kolkata were briefly arrested and released on bail for publishing on 5th Feb '09 the article by Johann Hari "Why should I respect these oppressive religions?" http://in.reuters.com/article/topNews/idINIndia-37979220090212 They were charged with "deliberate act with malicious intent to outrage religious feelings". Islamic groups had protested in front of Statesman House and a police complaint was lodged against The Statesman by a Muslim. The article by Johann Hari originally published by The Independent (UK) on 28th Jan '09 is reproduced below. EXTRACT: QUOTE :      All people deserve respect, but not all ideas do. I don't respect the idea that a man was born of a virgin, walked on water and rose from the dead. I don't respect the idea that we should follow a "Prophet" who at the age of 53 had sex with a nine-year old girl, and ordered the murder of whole villages of Jews because they wouldn't follow him.   I don't respect the idea that the West Bank was handed to Jews by God and the Palestinians should be bombed or bullied into surrendering it. I don't respect the idea that we may have lived before as goats, and could live again as woodlice. This is not because of "prejudice" or "ignorance", but because there is no evidence for these claims. They belong to the childhood of our species, and will in time look as preposterous as believing in Zeus or Thor or Baal.    UNQUOTE Kshmendra THE INDEPENDENT January 28, 2009 "Johann Hari: Why should I respect these oppressive religions?" (Whenever a religious belief is criticised, its adherents say they're victims of 'prejudice') The right to criticise religion is being slowly doused in acid. Across the world, the small, incremental gains made by secularism – giving us the space to doubt and question and make up our own minds – are being beaten back by belligerent demands that we "respect" religion. A historic marker has just been passed, showing how far we have been shoved. The UN rapporteur who is supposed to be the global guardian of free speech has had his job rewritten – to put him on the side of the religious censors.   The Universal Declaration of Human Rights stated 60 years ago that "a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief is the highest aspiration of the common people". It was a Magna Carta for mankind – and loathed by every human rights abuser on earth. Today, the Chinese dictatorship calls it "Western", Robert Mugabe calls it "colonialist", and Dick Cheney calls it "outdated". The countries of the world have chronically failed to meet it – but the document has been held up by the United Nations as the ultimate standard against which to check ourselves. Until now.   Starting in 1999, a coalition of Islamist tyrants, led by Saudi Arabia, demanded the rules be rewritten. The demand for everyone to be able to think and speak freely failed to "respect" the "unique sensitivities" of the religious, they decided – so they issued an alternative Islamic Declaration of Human Rights. It insisted that you can only speak within "the limits set by the shariah [law]. It is not permitted to spread falsehood or disseminate that which involves encouraging abomination or forsaking the Islamic community".   In other words, you can say anything you like, as long as it precisely what the reactionary mullahs tell you to say. The declaration makes it clear there is no equality for women, gays, non-Muslims, or apostates. It has been backed by the Vatican and a bevy of Christian fundamentalists.   Incredibly, they are succeeding. The UN's Rapporteur on Human Rights has always been tasked with exposing and shaming those who prevent free speech – including the religious. But the Pakistani delegate recently demanded that his job description be changed so he can seek out and condemn "abuses of free expression" including "defamation of religions and prophets". The council agreed – so the job has been turned on its head. Instead of condemning the people who wanted to murder Salman Rushdie, they will be condemning Salman Rushdie himself.   Anything which can be deemed "religious" is no longer allowed to be a subject of discussion at the UN – and almost everything is deemed religious. Roy Brown of the International Humanist and Ethical Union has tried to raise topics like the stoning of women accused of adultery or child marriage. The Egyptian delegate stood up to announce discussion of shariah "will not happen" and "Islam will not be crucified in this council" – and Brown was ordered to be silent. Of course, the first victims of locking down free speech about Islam with the imprimatur of the UN are ordinary Muslims.   Here is a random smattering of events that have taken place in the past week in countries that demanded this change. In Nigeria, divorced women are routinely thrown out of their homes and left destitute, unable to see their children, so a large group of them wanted to stage a protest – but the Shariah police declared it was "un-Islamic" and the marchers would be beaten and whipped. In Saudi Arabia, the country's most senior government-approved cleric said it was perfectly acceptable for old men to marry 10-year-old girls, and those who disagree should be silenced. In Egypt, a 27-year-old Muslim blogger Abdel Rahman was seized, jailed and tortured for arguing for a reformed Islam that does not enforce shariah.   To the people who demand respect for Muslim culture, I ask: which Muslim culture? Those women's, those children's, this blogger's – or their oppressors'?   As the secular campaigner Austin Darcy puts it: "The ultimate aim of this effort is not to protect the feelings of Muslims, but to protect illiberal Islamic states from charges of human rights abuse, and to silence the voices of internal dissidents calling for more secular government and freedom."   Those of us who passionately support the UN should be the most outraged by this.   Underpinning these "reforms" is a notion seeping even into democratic societies – that atheism and doubt are akin to racism. Today, whenever a religious belief is criticised, its adherents immediately claim they are the victims of "prejudice" – and their outrage is increasingly being backed by laws.   All people deserve respect, but not all ideas do. I don't respect the idea that a man was born of a virgin, walked on water and rose from the dead. I don't respect the idea that we should follow a "Prophet" who at the age of 53 had sex with a nine-year old girl, and ordered the murder of whole villages of Jews because they wouldn't follow him.   I don't respect the idea that the West Bank was handed to Jews by God and the Palestinians should be bombed or bullied into surrendering it. I don't respect the idea that we may have lived before as goats, and could live again as woodlice. This is not because of "prejudice" or "ignorance", but because there is no evidence for these claims. They belong to the childhood of our species, and will in time look as preposterous as believing in Zeus or Thor or Baal.   When you demand "respect", you are demanding we lie to you. I have too much real respect for you as a human being to engage in that charade.   But why are religious sensitivities so much more likely to provoke demands for censorship than, say, political sensitivities? The answer lies in the nature of faith. If my views are challenged I can, in the end, check them against reality. If you deregulate markets, will they collapse? If you increase carbon dioxide emissions, does the climate become destabilised? If my views are wrong, I can correct them; if they are right, I am soothed.   But when the religious are challenged, there is no evidence for them to consult. By definition, if you have faith, you are choosing to believe in the absence of evidence. Nobody has "faith" that fire hurts, or Australia exists; they know it, based on proof. But it is psychologically painful to be confronted with the fact that your core beliefs are based on thin air, or on the empty shells of revelation or contorted parodies of reason. It's easier to demand the source of the pesky doubt be silenced.   But a free society cannot be structured to soothe the hardcore faithful. It is based on a deal. You have an absolute right to voice your beliefs – but the price is that I too have a right to respond as I wish. Neither of us can set aside the rules and demand to be protected from offence.   Yet this idea – at the heart of the Universal Declaration – is being lost. To the right, it thwacks into apologists for religious censorship; to the left, it dissolves in multiculturalism. The hijacking of the UN Special Rapporteur by religious fanatics should jolt us into rescuing the simple, battered idea disintegrating in the middle: the equal, indivisible human right to speak freely.   An excellent blog that keeps you up to dates on secularist issues is Butterflies and Wheels, which you can read here [http://www.butterfliesandwheels.com/notes.php].   If you want to get involved in fighting for secularism, join the National Secular Society here. [http://www.secularism.org.uk/join.html]   j.hari at independent.co.uk [http://mailto:j.hari at independent.co.uk]   http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-why-should-i-respect-these-oppressive-religions-1517789.html     From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Tue Feb 24 21:24:13 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 21:24:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] PK opposes govt move to rename Srinagar international airport Message-ID: <6353c690902240754t43d837dodaf52facdf056ad0@mail.gmail.com> PK opposes govt move to rename Srinagar international airport February 24,2009 PTI Jammu , Feb 23 An organisation of displaced Kashmiri Pandits today opposed the Jammu and Kashmir government&aposs reported move to rename the Srinagar international airport, saying it is aimed at erasing the historical legacy of Kashmir."The move of the government to rename the international airport at Srinagar as Sheikh Noordin Noorani Airport is a design to systematically erase and tamper with the historic legacy of Kashmir," Convenor of the Panun Kashmir (PK), Agnishekhar, said at an executive body meeting of the group here. He alleged that the renaming of the airport is a part of the same plan by which the names of hundreds of villages in Kashmir have been changed, and even the landmarks like ancient Shankaracharya temple hill is being called as Takh-e-Sulaiman and Hari Parbat as Koh-i-Marn. From lawrence at altlawforum.org Tue Feb 24 23:42:59 2009 From: lawrence at altlawforum.org (Lawrence Liang) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 23:42:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Three Separate Attacks on Women in Bangalore Message-ID: Hi All time for more depressing news, three separate incidents of women attacked in Bangalore today One of the women attacked has written about it http://www.babajob.com/person.htm?user=10041 From lawrence at altlawforum.org Wed Feb 25 10:18:26 2009 From: lawrence at altlawforum.org (Lawrence Liang) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 10:18:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Report on the launch of pad.ma (Public Access Digital media Archive) Message-ID: *Report of Pad.ma Launch * On the 16th of February 2009, we officially opened out Pad.ma to the general public, and as a part of the launch we had a stimulating day-long event with various people who have been engaging with pad.ma. This report attempts to capture a sense of the day, as well as the various questions and concerns that were raised. We were very excited by the range of responses, and ways in which people had used pad.ma in interpreting their own footage, revisiting their earlier work or annotating archived material, and we wanted to share our sense of excitement, as well as the newer ways in which the possibilities of pad.ma was revealed for us through its use by all the participants. Shaina Anand began the day by providing the background to pad.ma, and how the various organizations involved (Oil21 from Berlin, Alternative Law Forum, Bangalore, and three organizations from Bombay: Majlis, Point of View and ChitraKarKhana/CAMP) came together to conceptualize pad.ma. In its one year of making, pad.ma had already inculded over 150 events from Majlis's Godaam, Chitrakarkhana's collection of micro media and other contributions including that of Point of View, Alternative Law Forum and footage by filmmakers such at T. Jayashree and Saeed Mirza. Shaina said that the main reason for the day was to get a sense of how people from different disciplinary backgrounds from film makers to artists, and scholars to activists could use pad.ma to explore the relationship between text and image, to examine the possibilities that it opens up, and also to look at the blurring lines between those who produce images, those who interpret it, and those who are supposed to consume it. The first presentation of the day was made by Aagaz, a voluntary youth group from PremNagar, Meghwadi and SanjayNagar bastis of Jogeshwari. Members of Aagaz including Shaali Shaikh, Durga Gudillu and Ismail Sharif spoke about their contribution to pad.ma. About 15 hours of footage from their video project Ek Dozen Pani was collaboratively annotated to describe some relationships between infrastructure, water and the city. While infrastructure is hyper visible in most cities in their diverse forms, from high rise shining malls and multiplexes to decaying pipes from which water and electricity leaks to poorer neighborhoods, the members of Aagaz used the layers of annotation in pad.ma to go deep into their own histories of how infrastructure gets to be made and unmade in urban experience. ( http://pad.ma/find?l=Lj) Sanjay Kak spoke about his own relationship to found footage after the experience of making Jashn-e-azadi, and he was invited to write over a two-hour long tape of found footage, "Flight Over the CFL". In what can only be described as an ethnography of a media event, Sanjay Kak's reading of this film opens out for us the historical and analytical possibilities that lies in material which may seem completely ordinary and uneventful. Combining the skills of a film maker with that of the historian, Sanjay's contemporatry reading of the material opened out ways in which we can think the relationship between events, fragmentary material and contested political histories (http://pad.ma/Vg92c17o/info) Priya Sen, a film maker from Delhi revisited a film that she had made six years ago "The Knower of Secrets" about Qawwali singers in Hazrat Nizamuddin. In her annotations, Priya looked at what it would mean to capture the experience of the film maker in the making of the film, an experience which is never exhausted by the end product that emerges in the form of the finished film. Her annotation moves between the personal, the affective, the theoretical and the analytical. On Pad.ma, the knower of secrets emerges as a text which opens out to different registers of experience and reflection which were not immediately available at the time of the making of the film. (http://pad.ma/Vu5mgs8w/info) Nida Ghouse's presentation raised the critical question of the difference between seeing an image, reading and image and understanding the experience of pad.ma which attempts to bring text and image together. Nida located the development of the various versions of pad.ma andf its implications for newer forms of reading that are made available. Finally, Nida looked at the idea of the electronic archive not just as an archeological site for data mining, but also as a construction site of ideas and possibilities. Sebastian Lütgert and Jan Gerber looked at 10 remarks about video and the internet, which balances between the exhilaration about video on the net and the material realities of low bandwidth etc. They distinguished between open source as a 'cool attitude' and openness as a form of practice that constantly requires interventions that reframes the ways we think of our own practices. They also argued that licenses are 'real', in that issues of format of videos, inter-operability etc are all affected by proprietary licenses and the future of video on the net is also an issue about closed or open systems. Kaushik Bhowmick was invited by pad.ma to be a guest annotator, and Kaushik took up the challenge by trawling through all the events and settling on ten of them. But rather than choosing to annotate them through information or analysis of the events (which ranged from bar dancers to the item song in hindi films to the lumpen audience), Kaushik chose to read and write across them. Drawing from mythology and film theory, Kaushik chose to make poetic connections across images. Arguing that film eventually relies on the production of sensibilities, Kaushik' sannotations sought to capture the evocative feel of the videos and the ways they spoke to each other. ( http://pad.ma/Vejbx6uz/00:02:54.000) Desire Machine Collective from Guwahati chose to focus on the idea of the North East as it emerges in popular discourse and in the news. They curated a set of items which provided a name and place to the idea of the north east. In their curation they sought to raise the question of how an idea like the Northeast comes into being, where it finds form in media discourse, and also ways in which a counter archive that displaces one central idea of the north east could emerge. They chose to read one segment of a film Tango Charlie and its hugely stereotypical image of the north east and contrasted this with videos that looked at the Bnei Menashe, the lost tribes of Israel from Mizoram. ( http://pad.ma/find?l=Ll) Lawrence Liang made a presentation on the relationship between the image, politics and the distribution of the sensible. Drawing form Jacques Ranciere, Lawrence argued that politics was already aesthetics, in that ideas of the political often draw from sensorial metaphors such as visibility and invisibility, and politics may consist of interruptions/interventions in the distribution of the sensible, which modify the Aesthetic-political field. He tried to link this to an understanding of the political which is not dependent on a pre determined political field, but which is open to redefinition through a reversal of assumptions of social roles. In the case of pad.ma, the blurring of the lines between image makers and image readers would constitute such an aesthetic-political interruption. Ayisha Abraham who has made a film Straight 8 using found footage chose to look at rare films made on Ram Gopal, a dancer who became famous in the mid-twentieth century. Using the footage of Ram Gopal that had been shot by an amateur film maker Tom D'Aguiar, perhaps the only existing fragment of moving image of Ram, Ayesha posed questions about the relationship between the materiality of film, the role of archives and the reconstruction of histories. (http://pad.ma/Vsnjewdj/info) Ranu Ghosh has been working on the changing urban landscape of Kolkatta, looking at the emergence of new high rise apartments against the decaying landscape of factories that have shut down. In her presentation she spoke about the south city project which has emerged on the lands of the Usha sewing machine factory. She has used Pad.ma to annotate the history of the struggle of an individual against the acquisition of his housing quarters, and he was given a camera to document what was happening, since there are no visitors allowed inside the premises. The annotations become another layer through which the relationship between the film maker, footage shot by the subject of the film, and the audience interact. (http://pad.ma/Vfsgvjes/info ) Nilanjan Bhattacharya has been working on questions of traditional knowledge, and biodiversity. He presented an interview with Madhav Gadgil and related Prof. Gadgils view points on rituals and superstitions and myths as essential to the maintaining of sacred forests and knowledge systems through footage from his older films that included exampled of buddhist, hindu and animist rituals. http://pad.ma/Vs6e8x5j/00:13:51.000 Sadanand Menon showcased two films on Chandralekha. The first was part of a program made for a cultural show on Doordarshan, and the only footage available of it is the versions recorded from television. In an example of how text/image and histories (personal and public) interact, Sadanand's annotations on the Tanabana program takes us through an intimate journey with Chandralekha. Moments that would otherwise be missed (a dog passing by, Chandra making Rangoli), if we were just watching the film, are re-read by Sadanand to create a shared space where we begin to understand Chandra's philosophy of creativity and the body. Ghar Bachao, Ghar Banao Andolan is an organization that has been working on housing rights, particularly against corporate privatization. They took an existing footage in pad.ma "One Day in the Life of Niranjan Hiranandani" and re' read it against information that they have been collection for a few years (through the use of RTI as well as investigative journalism). The grandiose vision of Hiranandani is read against the material conditions of housing for the poor, while his statements of corporate responsibility are read against the corrupt practices prevalent in the real estate industry. In a playful manner, GBGB completes the incomplete narrative of images through sharp political satire. (http://pad.ma/Vtowua9j/L2kv9) Once you enter a pad.ma event, you can use the 9 and 0 keys ( and ) keys to advance to next clip. You can register to ad your own annotations. Pad.ma is now open to external contribuitons and also invites in annotators. write to pad.ma at pad.ma For more details feel free to contact kalakamra at gmail.com -- camputer.org pad.ma chitrakarkhana.net From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Wed Feb 25 12:05:12 2009 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 12:35:12 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] BREAKING: 46th Battalion Moves in To Quell BDR Mutiny in Dhaka Message-ID: Stay tuned to this URL for breaking news. Latest update is that PM has said she will negotiate directly, but now we are hearing there may be curfew from 3 pm. http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2009/02/25/bdr-mutiny/ Latest report says that it was "pre-planned but badly strategized" mutiny inside BDR, against their commanding ranks coming from army. At this morning's darbar, apparently the statement was made "BDR command should stay inside BDR". Reports are that an assailant shot BDR chief from back. The shooter was captured but then they came out and found themselves surrounded by mutineers. The 46th brigade of the army has moved in to quell the mutiny. Firing is still going on as 12 noon. While I was there, I was chased by police when they saw my camera. Several people came to me and said "bhai camera lookan, ora kintu cameraman er dike tak koreo gooli korche" (do not know if it is true). A while later a RAB van was also seen patrolling the area and another person said they are going to remove the journalists from area. On the spot were Abid Abdullah, Nic Haque of Al Jazeera-- no one was being allowed anywhere near. DP Twitter from Dhanmondi, Dhaka. 12:20pm From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Wed Feb 25 15:47:29 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 15:47:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Film_Screening=3A_Ajay_Raina=27s_?= =?windows-1252?q?=92Tell_them_the_Tree_they_had_Planted_has_now_Gr?= =?windows-1252?q?own=92?= In-Reply-To: <6353c690902250216xc8dc984n36046cd536e8e3d9@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690902250216xc8dc984n36046cd536e8e3d9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690902250217l485e9803m605ff7a13aec3c4a@mail.gmail.com> *Ajay Raina's* documentary *’Tell them the Tree they had Planted has now Grown’ (PSBT)* has a powerful story-line, as a Kashmiri Pandit revisits his birthplace Kashmir after a twelve year exile only to witness the scars of a paradise lost. He has won The Golden Conch Award, RAPA Award and the IDPA silver trophy in 2002. *Day:* 26th February, 2009 *Time:* 2:30pm sharp *Venue:* Media Centre Auditorium, *Indira Gandhi National Centre for the Arts (IGNCA)*, Gate No. 1, Rajender Prasad Road, near Janpath, New Delhi *Ajay Raina's documentary is being screened as part of the 8 day 'Kashmir Festival'at IGNCA.* *FIRST PERSON -* *Ajay Raina* Since I was visiting Kashmir after a long period of uncertainty, I did feel a certain fear about my safety and apprehensive about the response I would receive from the local people and my earlier acquaintances, though I hadn't really accounted for this 'particular' emotion in my planning. In the first few days of my stay I was very guarded with the unknown people who I encountered. I thought it prudent not to let them in the know of who I actually was…(there were some interesting consequences). Gradually, I was able to overcome this guardedness due to the support given me by my Father's ex-colleagues and a Friend who was my junior at the Film Institute, Pune. On the first day after my arrival in Srinagar I wanted to go to the downtown part of the city and just roam about to observe people. Being the last Friday in the Month of Ramzan, I was advised to visit the shrine at Hazratbal, where I was told I could expect to see a huge congregation of Kashmiri's. I went inside the shrine (I hadn't been inside ever, while I was growing up in Srinagar) and took some stills of the people as they offered Namaz and as the chief Moulvi of the Shrine exhorted his people to join him in prayers for peace. On my way back from the Hazratbal shrine, I took a detour through the down-town part of the city. This part of the city was the centre of militancy and highly volatile during the initial phase of militancy. I used to hear about lots of instances of clashes and firings and deaths from this area. The security bunkers have now gone (cease-fire sentiment). The pro-Pakistan/ pro-azadi/ anti-India banners have long vanished and have been replaced by banners advertising coaching classes for students and commercial services. I noted that people in general, barring the intellectual and the political class were mostly fed up of the ongoing struggle and violence they had unwittingly become a part of. People overwhelmingly wanted to get on with life. They wanted the cease-fire to be extended indefinitely and the violence to end. But they also feared that the vested interests among the people - the 'the 5% of people' - the militants/politicians/surrendered militants/and neo-businessmen (who have accumulated unaccounted wealth over the past decade) do want the uncertainty to continue, so that they can thrive. But the violence of the past decade has taken its toll on the psyche of the people. There is resignation to fear and violence. The institutions of society, of governance and of accountability seem non-existent. There is frequent load-shedding, but people do not crib or complain. People no longer share their thoughts with others in public places. Nobody bothered me or asked me who I was or why I had come, even though I could sense that they did know, I was one of them and had come to Kashmir after a long time. Almost all the people I spoke to (in the privacy of their homes or offices) have been witness to police highhandedness and of death, - at the hands of militants or in the cross-fire - of someone near to them. This factor accounts for the major reason for their anti-India feelings. The fear of the militants is still palpable, I found it difficult to get anyone to speak about them, though a well respected Journalist, the editor and publisher of a Local Urdu newspaper was candid enough in admitting to me that *"In the initial phase of the militancy, the fear of getting killed and the threats from the militants left us with no choice but to publish what they dictated us, but now the tables have turned…It is the papers now who tell the militants what to do, what course of action to take, though the fear remains." * I spoke to a few well known local journalists who have covered the ongoing turmoil. The feeling among them, is unanimously in favour of peace, though they do not seem to expect much from their local political leadership, which is known to be corrupt and self - seeking, without exception. Their arguments for Independence and the genesis of the struggle are overwhelmingly weighed against India, barring a few from the older generation, who still think Kashmir's accession to India was in the good interests of the Kashmiri's. Among the intellectuals, I found a certain near-unanimity in their logic and analysis of the events that led to the start of the current turmoil and its subsequent unfolding over the past decade. I have a feeling that there has been much re-writing of the History of Kashmir in the past decade. The chasm of thought, the variances in the interpretation of events by the pro/anti India lobby has widened…perhaps, in the absence of any worthwhile debate due to the fear of the militants. Perhaps also, for fear of being dubbed anti-movement. On the question of Hindu migrations…an ex-militant (of Hizbul Mujahideen) turned human rights activist wouldn't even agree with me that Hindus were ever threatened to leave. Very few people reluctantly admitted, though in private, and when pressed, that 'selective killings' of Hindus, exhortations from the mosques for Hindus to get out or even 'individual' threats could have left them with no choice but to seek safety outside the valley. I also spoke with the members of the Hindu families who had stayed back…They were going about their daily activities 'normally' and as 'freely' as their other neighbour…They felt safe from their neighbours, though reluctant to voice any contrary opinions in public. I also had the occasion to spend time with four CRPF personnel manning the picket at the office where my father worked. There is a state of permanent and constant antipathy between the Security forces and the Local Kashmiri's, but they looked up to me as a representative of India, perhaps with a special regard, knowing that I was from Bombay and that I work in Films. In the course of our little political discussions about the situation and the probable outcome to the Kashmir problem, I came back feeling that the decade long violent attrition, constant fear of a militant attack, a sullen populace and also perhaps lack of any evidence of any change in the ground situation has left the Indian Jawan, manning the lonely pickets, at the mercy of his 'wits'. He has been placed in a situation where the gun in his hand is the only security he has. When he is attacked, or when any of his comrades is killed, he retaliates with 'wanton' firing. He is aware that innocents die…But he is also aware that the 'militant' is from one among them. He is brutal to all. He suspects all as 'a matter of policy' to safeguard his own life…believing that thereby he is rendering some service to his country. But, even they want the violence to end. They want to see some signs of peace. They want to relax among the people they are supposed to fight. They offered me Rum in the night (since all wine shops and cinemas are closed), They offered me tea and food in the morning from their share of the breakfast, knowing that the restaurants would not be open due to the 'Ramzan' month. They took good care of me, even though I was more 'pally' with the people from the other side, but that was another reason, I was under 'suspicion' from both sides. The day I was to leave, One of the security guys was only matter of fact in admitting to me that he had been suspecting me all along as well*…"How do we know who you are, or what you say you are is really true. How are we to know what your designs here are?"* ** *CAST AND CREW* Directed by Ajay Raina Produced by Rajiv Mehrotra (PSBT) Cinematography Tanmay Agarwal , Ajay Raina Editing Ajay Raina Audiography Ajay Raina , Tanmay Agarwal ** ** *Running time*: 55 min. *For further information contact - 011-23385998* From nagraj.adve at gmail.com Wed Feb 25 16:35:22 2009 From: nagraj.adve at gmail.com (Nagraj Adve) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:35:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: [pudr] Join Dharna to protest the arrest of Shamim Modi In-Reply-To: References: <003401c9971e$a9d19eb0$1401a8c0@IBM5669643B75D> Message-ID: <564b2fca0902250305m1bc0bc22s573ec4d15b7a4992@mail.gmail.com> > *People's Union for Democratic Rights, Delhi (PUDR)* > ** > > Dear friends, > > You must be aware that Shamim Modi, an activist of Shramik Adivasi > Sangathan and the Vice President of Samajwadi Jan Parishad, was arrested on > 10 February. Yesterday she was remanded to judicial custody for another 14 > days. > > She has been engaged in the issues of adivasis and mill-workers in Harda > M.P for many years. The ongoing struggles of workers in saw-mills and > plywood factories demanding proper working conditions and against the > rampant violation of labour laws had led the industries association to > demand the arrest of Shamim Modi and her husband. The government has > obliged. > > The criminal charge levelled against her pertains to a case filed two years > ago. This case was filed against her because her organisation had > intervened in an instance of brutality against tribals by the forest officer > and his staff. In any case she had obtained bail in the matter. > > The present arrest is being continued on the basis of the government's > claims in court that Shamim Modi has been indulging in anti-state > activities. The issue is serious since mere utterances by the prosecution > without a scrap of evidence of any anti-state activity is being accepted by > the court to prolong detention. More so, because the arrest is being > conduted at the behest of mill-owners to prevent labourers from expressing > their legitimate and just demands. > > * Protest the Continued Detention of Shamim Modi > > * *Join a protest dharna at M.P. Bhawan, Chanakyapuri at 11:30 a.m. on > Friday, 27 February 2009.* > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > *Shamim Modi has done her M.A. degree from Lady Shriram College, > University of Delhi, M.Phil from TISS Mumbai and L.L.B. from Bhopal > University. The vice president of Samajwadi Jan Parishad, MP, she has > contested two assembly elections and a parliament election. She has filed a > number of cases of tribal and labour rights at the MP High Court. ShamimModi was a member of the Tribal Subgroup of the Planning Commission of India > that was involved in preparing the 11th five year plan. She has been a > trustee with renowned social worker late Baba Amte and Maedha Patkar in the > Jan Sahyog Trust.* > > > > > From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Wed Feb 25 18:06:21 2009 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 18:36:21 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] BANGLADESH: PM declares amnesty for mutineers Message-ID: http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2009/02/25/photos-bdr-gate/ http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2009/02/25/bdr-mutiny/ http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7909557.stm From anansi1 at earthlink.net Wed Feb 25 18:16:01 2009 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul D. Miller) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 07:46:01 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [Reader-list] Film Screening, Yale Art Gallery, Yale University, 2.25, 7:30pm Message-ID: <3509199.1235565962275.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Hi you all - here's the info on my film premier screening at Yale. Any of you have friends there? We will have lots and lots of people for the premier, and there are about 50 other screenings of the film throughout the country plus Tokyo, Singapore, Paris, London, Berlin, etc etc If you're interested in screening the film, definitely let me know! We're working with local groups all over the country to present it. Details: www.rebirthofanation.com come on by! Paul aka Dj Spooky Details: Yale Art Gallery event to feature DJ Spooky Susan Z. Hart, Administrator Film Studies Program Yale University 53 Wall Street P.O. Box 208363 New Haven, CT 06520-8363 phone: 203-436-4668 fax: 203-432-6764 www.yale.edu/filmstudiesprogram http://opa.yale.edu/bulletin/yale_bulletin_section.aspx?id=129&type=VC&pub_id=32 On Wednesday, Feb. 25, Paul D. Miller, also known as DJ Spooky That Subliminal Kid, will visit the campus to screen his newly released DVD "Rebirth of a Nation." The screening and question-and-answer session will take place at 7:30 p.m. in McNeil Lecture Hall, Yale University Art Gallery, 1111 Chapel St. at York Street. The event is free and open to the public. The gallery is closed during this event; enter the McNeil Lecture Hall from High or York Street. Miller will be the guest at a master's tea at 4 p.m. in the Calhoun College master's house, 100 Tower Pkwy. His visit is sponsored by the Yale University Art Gallery, Department of Music, New Ideas in African-American Studies, Calhoun College, Film Studies and the Yale Research Initiative on the History of Sexualities. Paul D. Miller aka DJ Spooky That Subliminal Kid Wednesday, February 25, 2009 7:30PM McNeil Lecture Hall Yale University Art Gallery Rebirth of A Nation Celebrating the DVD release with screening and Q&A with DJ Spooky Admission is free. (Note: the Gallery will be closed during this event; enter the McNeil Lecture Hall from High or York Street.) Paul D. Miller, electronic musician and multimedia performer will celebrate the DVD release of Rebirth of A Nation with the Yale community. Rebirth of A Nation is Paul Miller (DJ Spooky)’s audiovisual remix of the DW Griffith film "Birth of A Nation" for three screen digital video projection. Miller has taken a newly restored print of the original film, and edited, manipulated and remixed it. Originally commissioned as a live multimedia performance, REBIRTH OF A NATION the DVD features an original score by Miller performed by Kronos Quartet. The film is ‘a DJ mix applied to cinema’ that challenges our legacy of revisionist history as it deconstructs one of the most influential Paul D. Miller is a conceptual artist, writer, and musician working in New York. His written work has appeared in The Village Voice, The Source, Artforum, Raygun, Rap Pages, Paper Magazine, and a host of other periodicals. Miller has also published the manifesto Rhythm Science and Sound Unbound, a collection of essays on music, There will be a Master’s Tea with DJ Spooky (Paul D. Miller) on Wednesday, February This event is sponsored by the Yale University Art Gallery, Department of Music, New Ideas in African-American Studies, Calhoun College, Film Studies and the Yale Research Initiative on the History of Sexualities. From anansi1 at earthlink.net Wed Feb 25 18:20:31 2009 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul D. Miller) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 07:50:31 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [Reader-list] Yale Art Gallery, Film Screening, 2.25 7:30pm Message-ID: <5907383.1235566232279.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Hello you all! I'm having a screening of my new film at Yale University tonite. If anyone from the list is in the area, come by! There'll be lots of people from different scenes, and it's an open situation. in peace, Paul details: Paul D. Miller aka DJ Spooky That Subliminal Kid Wednesday, February 25, 2009 7:30PM McNeil Lecture Hall Yale University Art Gallery Rebirth of A Nation Celebrating the DVD release with screening and Q&A with DJ Spooky Admission is free. (Note: the Gallery will be closed during this event; enter the McNeil Lecture Hall from High or York Street.) Paul D. Miller, electronic musician and multimedia performer will celebrate the DVD release of Rebirth of A Nation with the Yale community. Rebirth of A Nation is Paul Miller (DJ Spooky)’s audiovisual remix of the DW Griffith film "Birth of A Nation" for three screen digital video projection. Miller has taken a newly restored print of the original film, and edited, manipulated and remixed it. Originally commissioned as a live multimedia performance, REBIRTH OF A NATION the DVD features an original score by Miller performed by Kronos Quartet. The film is ‘a DJ mix applied to cinema’ that challenges our legacy of revisionist history as it deconstructs one of the most influential Paul D. Miller is a conceptual artist, writer, and musician working in New York. His written work has appeared in The Village Voice, The Source, Artforum, Raygun, Rap Pages, Paper Magazine, and a host of other periodicals. Miller has also published the manifesto Rhythm Science and Sound Unbound, a collection of essays on music, There will be a Master’s Tea with DJ Spooky (Paul D. Miller) on Wednesday, February This event is sponsored by the Yale University Art Gallery, Department of Music, New Ideas in African-American Studies, Calhoun College, Film Studies and the Yale Research Initiative on the History of Sexualities. From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 25 20:20:49 2009 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 06:50:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "Stand up to the mullahs" - Vir Sanghvi In-Reply-To: <845139.72202.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <620676.42571.qm@web51406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Kshmendra Thanks a lot for forwarding the article by Vir Sanghvi. Since the Sarai list has been behaving strangely, I got your message only today (and from the sarai archives I also found out that within minutes after posting your message you have started asking why the Sarai liberals and secularists etc. are selectively silent on this) Please allow everyone to see the mail. I agree with Vir Sanghvi that the "liberal people" have given in too much to the sensitivities of the "religious people". We have to always remain extra cautious about not hurting the sensibilities of the fundamentalists. And why can't they be sensitive about the hurt of the liberals. And why do we have to always prove in the end that Islam is really a religion of peace and so on. I think we have discussed this issue many times on this list as well as other forums, with examples such as MF Hussain and the Prophet cartoons. One really doesn't know what could be done about it except to condemn the people who get provoked at the slightest pretext. But I would like to go back to some of the interesting debates we had last year after one of Hussain's art exhibits was attacked in Delhi. Please see this particular one: http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2008-August/014282.html The same month also has some interesting posts on Hussain by Inder and others. I think in most cases, as we have seen in the past, the provocation doesn't really arise from the artwork or a write-up itself (or an individual reading of it). A problem starts mostly when the subject matter is exploited for political gains by a religious/political leaders. But Vir's distinction that so and so community is prone to more hurt than the other community is debatable, since we have seen all kinds of people get provoked on small matters (it doesn't always have to be art or literature). Vir says that if Muslims are banned from making the picture of the prophet, let them not do it. But why should the non-Muslims refrain from it. What I would like to add here is that Islam is really not against the pictures of the Prophet - his images have been made in the Islamic world itself throughout the history (besides the production of plenty of other liberal forms of arts and literature which is not imaginable in today's Islamic world). And so is the case with the history of liberal arts in all religions, communities and countries. But this fact (about our liberal history) is probably known and appreciated more by today's liberals than by the ultra-sensitive mullahs. So, my question is: should the liberals and fundamentalists continue to remain on an offensive by hurting each other, or should the liberals (who probably know and appreciate history and society better) play a proactive role in trying to inform the extremists about the more liberal history we had. I don't know if I am making sense here, but this idea of "educating" people about the sensitivities of the liberals (when I proposed it) was criticized a lot by people on this list. Yousuf --- On Tue, 2/24/09, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > From: Kshmendra Kaul > Subject: [Reader-list] "Stand up to the mullahs" - Vir Sanghvi > To: "sarai list" > Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 3:02 PM > Vir Sanghvi seems to have been provoked into writing this > piece by the protest by Muslims against The Statesman which > had reproduced an article by Johann Hari "Why should I > respect these oppressive religions?" first published in > The Independent (UK). >   > EXTRACTS: >   > - It is now clear that the liberal society has been > suckered into relaxing its standards for free speech by > militant Islamists. >   > - But so what if Muslims cannot visually represent their > Prophet? Why should non-Muslims be bound by their religious > edicts? Why should non-believing Muslims be forced by > liberal society to obey the restrictions of their religion? >   > - Believers should follow what the Holy Book and the > mullahs say. But why should the rest of us? Why should we > abandon our right to free expression? >   > - Nobody I know has ever explained why the double standards > are justified. >   > - The real reason we give in to Islamic fanatics is the > desire for a peaceful life or, to put it another way, > cowardice. >   > - Every one of their objections is always framed in terms > of violence. Ban The Satanic Verses or we will kill Salman > Rushdie. Apologise for the Danish cartoons or we will offer > a reward for the head of the cartoonist. Arrest the editor > of the Statesman or we will shut Calcutta down by rioting in > the streets. >   > - Faced with these threats, we abandon our principles and > say things like, “Come on, is a single article worth the > death of so many people?” or “Let’s just ban the book, > otherwise these guys will keep rioting.” >   > - The fanatics know this. They have identified the > cowardice at the heart of our liberalism. So every demand is > a) pitched in terms of protecting the religious sentiments > of the Muslim community or b) facing murder, mayhem and > more. >   > - Almost every single time, we cave in. Either we say that > Islam is a peaceful religion. > Or we get death threats. >   > -  Isn’t it time to finally stand up to these thugs and > blackmailers? It is up to the Muslim community to rein in > its fanatics and some moderates are indeed trying to do > this. >   > - But as far as secular society is concerned, our position > should be clear. We believe in free speech as guaranteed by > our Constitution, not as defined by the mullahs. >   > Kshmendra >   >   > "Stand up to the mullahs" > Vir Sanghvi, Hindustan Times > February 21, 2009 >   > If you have missed the controversy that led to the arrest > of the editor of The Statesman in Calcutta for offending > religious sentiments — which you might have, because the > national media downplayed the issue — then here’s what > it is about. >   > The Statesman reproduced an article by Johann Hari, the > young liberal British commentator, from The Independent. > Hari’s politics are clear: he stands up for secularism > (for which he has won awards), tolerance (he has defended > Islam against such critics as Mark Steyn) and environmental > concerns. >   > The column in question was about attempts by the > governments of some Islamic states to alter the UN’s > commitment to free speech. These governments argue that free > speech must be restricted on grounds of offence to religion > and that discussions of certain issues relating to the > rights of women must be curtailed because they could be > anti-Islamic. >   > Hari makes the obvious objections to all of this and then > says that religion can often be oppressive. So, why should > people be stopped from speaking out against it? He quotes > examples of regressive practices from all religions and says > that just because these occur in accounts of the lives of > gods, messiahs or prophets, that does not make them above > criticism. >   > Who could possibly object to that? >   > Well, a small section of politically-motivated Islamic > fanatics in Calcutta, that’s who. >   > As the people who rioted did not seem like typical > Statesman readers (they were not genteel Bengalis, aged 60 > and above), it is a fair assumption that some cynical leader > of an extreme faction of the Muslim community told his > followers about the ‘grave insult to Islam” and sent > them off to riot. >   > The CPI(M) government then arrested The Statesman’s > editor and publisher. But the arrest — though clearly > unjustified — seems to have been largely symbolic. They > were quickly released and the mobs, satisfied that “action > had been taken”, melted away. >   > Several points need to be made about the incident. >   > First: The article itself. There is not one line in > Hari’s piece that I would disagree with. If religions > deserve respect, then so does atheism. Followers of > religions have every right to their views and practices. But > so do atheists have the right to criticise religion. Nothing > in this world is above criticism. >   > Two: The rioters said they were offended by a passage in > the article where Hari referred to the Prophet’s marriage > to a much younger woman and his directive to burn Jewish > villages. (In all fairness, he was as critical of other > religions and of the Israeli assault on the West Bank.) >   > The rioters say that nobody can criticise any aspect of the > Prophet’s life. >   > Why? >   > There’s no shortage of books and articles criticising > Jesus, suggesting that he might have been secretly married > (as in The DaVinci Code), arguing that the resurrection was > a hoax or that Mary was never a virgin. >   > Similarly, would mainstream Hindus be offended if somebody > wrote that Hindu mythology features practices that we would > find abhorrent today: one wife for five husbands as in the > Mahabharat, the compulsive philandering of Krishna or the > appalling mistreatment of Sita (the agni pariksha etc)? >   > Some Hindu extremists may protest but I doubt if they would > get very far with their objections. The community, as a > whole, would shrug its shoulders and many Hindus will agree > with the critics. >   > > > And yet, it is an article of faith with Muslims — even > moderate ones — that the Prophet’s life is beyond > reproach. >   > Does this make any sense? >   > Three: It is now clear that the liberal society has been > suckered into relaxing its standards for free speech by > militant Islamists. >   > Let’s take the most obvious example. Every liberal I know > is outraged by the attacks on MF Husain. Why shouldn’t he > paint nude Saraswatis? That’s his right. If people are > offended by the paintings, they shouldn’t see them. >   > So far, so good. But now imagine that Husain had painted an > extremely reverential portrait of the Prophet. (Never mind > cartoons, nude pictures etc.) >   > There would have been riots. And even secular liberals > would not have supported him. >   > We would have said: Islam prohibits any visual > representation of the Prophet so Husain has committed a > great crime. >   > But so what if Muslims cannot visually represent their > Prophet? Why should non-Muslims be bound by their religious > edicts? Why should non-believing Muslims be forced by > liberal society to obey the restrictions of their religion? >   > Believers should follow what the Holy Book and the mullahs > say. But why should the rest of us? Why should we abandon > our right to free expression? >   > Nobody I know has ever explained why the double standards > are justified. >   > Four: The reason we are suckered into accepting these > double standards is because Muslim politicians play good > cop-bad cop. >   > Look, they say, we are all for freedom of speech. But if > you say anything that the fanatics object to, then they will > take to the streets, burn property and hurt innocent people. > We will do our best to pacify our community, but you must > remove any provocation that will cause the hardliners to > revolt. >   > Turn this around. How would Muslims have reacted if Hindu > moderates had said to them: Look, we think this whole Ram > Janmbhoomi thing is nonsense. But the BJP will gain support > on this platform. So why don’t you agree to move the Babri > Masjid? It’s not even a functioning mosque. That way, we > remove the provocation and rid the hardliners of their issue > and ensure communal harmony. >   > Well, Hindu moderates did say this. And we know how > moderate Muslim politicians reacted. >   > Five: The real reason we give in to Islamic fanatics is the > desire for a peaceful life or, to put it another way, > cowardice. >   > Every one of their objections is always framed in terms of > violence. Ban The Satanic Verses or we will kill Salman > Rushdie. Apologise for the Danish cartoons or we will offer > a reward for the head of the cartoonist. Arrest the editor > of the Statesman or we will shut Calcutta down by rioting in > the streets. >   > Faced with these threats, we abandon our principles and say > things like, “Come on, is a single article worth the death > of so many people?” or “Let’s just ban the book, > otherwise these guys will keep rioting.” >   > The fanatics know this. They have identified the cowardice > at the heart of our liberalism. So every demand is a) > pitched in terms of protecting the religious sentiments of > the Muslim community or b) facing murder, mayhem and more. >   > Almost every single time, we cave in. >   > Either we say that Islam is a peaceful religion. >   > Or we get death threats. >   > And finally: Isn’t it time to finally stand up to these > thugs and blackmailers? It is up to the Muslim community to > rein in its fanatics and some moderates are indeed trying to > do this. >   > But as far as secular society is concerned, our position > should be clear. We believe in free speech as guaranteed by > our Constitution, not as defined by the mullahs. >   > Anything less would be a betrayal of the liberal, secular > values we hold dear. >   > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/Print.aspx?Id=630b8c69-4672-4e12-ac2a-a9073f5165d4 >   > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePage&id=630b8c69-4672-4e12-ac2a-a9073f5165d4&MatchID1=4932&TeamID1=7&TeamID2=8&MatchType1=1&SeriesID1=1247&PrimaryID=4932&Headline=Stand+up+to+the+mullahs >   >   >   > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From veenashekar at gmail.com Wed Feb 25 23:17:55 2009 From: veenashekar at gmail.com (Veena Shekar) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 23:17:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] invitation Message-ID: Chitralakshana cordially invites you for its premier show The Artists’ Word An Exhibition of Art works By Eminent Artists Curated By Dr. Veena Shekar On Sunday, 1st march 2009 Between 6.15 P.M to 7.30 P.M Mr. Justice M.N. Venkatachaliah Former Chief Justice of India Has kindly consented to inaugurate the show The show will remain open till the 7th March 2009 At Galleries 1 & 2 Karnataka Chitrakala Parishath Art Complex Kumara Krupa Road Bangalore-560001 Hosted by Sameeksha- Art Research, Media, Bangalore Www.sameeksha.org -- Dr. Veena Shekar Art historian & Consultant Bangalore www.chitralakshana.com 9886497427 From lawrence at altlawforum.org Thu Feb 26 10:53:39 2009 From: lawrence at altlawforum.org (Lawrence Liang) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 10:53:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Gangs Attack women in Bangalore Message-ID: *From http://www.hindu.com/2009/02/26/stories/2009022658410300.htm Gangs attack women in ‘western attire’ * Deepika Arwind * Two attacks in broad daylight with people just looking on * Bangalore: In what appears to be inspired by the pub attack in Mangalore, three women have been attacked in the city over the past week. All three in their 20s and in “western clothing” were subject to varying degrees of violence. The first incident took place on February 17 at 1.10 p.m. in Indiranagar, when a young woman’s car was closely followed by two men on a motorcycle. “I was returning from my German class. I noticed the men following me, hooting and then overtaking my car,” she said on her blog, giving a detailed account of the unprovoked assault. She was spat on and her car was blocked even as the other car drivers, instead of stopping to help, just wanted her to get out of the way. Speaking to *The Hindu* on condition of anonymity, the traumatised woman said: “Everyone could see that they were being aggressive and yelling obscenities in Kannada. No one came to my rescue.” After a chase, she sought refuge in an apartment building, where she was cornered. One of the men continued to shout obscenities and moved threateningly close. When she slapped him in self-defence, he punched her. “Aggravated, I shouted at him in Kannada. He was stunned to hear me speak the language. He noted down my licence plate number and told the guard he would harm me later,” she said. Shaken, she filed a complaint with the Deputy Commissioner of Police (East). DCP East B.K. Singh said that the complaint was registered 48 hours after the incident. “We are not able to identify the accused as the CCTVs at the signals have recordings for 24 hours only. We are investigating.” Second assault The second incident took place on Tuesday at 10 a.m., when a 28-year-old woman on her way to Kormangala was accosted by four men near RBANM’s College in Ulsoor. “Four men got off an SUV and started screaming at me. They tugged at my clothes in front of at least eight mute spectators. One of them even pulled my shrug off, scratched my neck and hit my ear,” she told *The Hindu*on condition of anonymity. She said that the four were all aged between 25 and 35. “When I said I would call the police, one of them offered me his mobile phone and told me to go right ahead. They saw an airline tag on my bag, got more aggravated and called me an outsider,” she said. “One of them said I must be part of the pink chaddi campaign.” Fortunately, an army van passed by and two soldiers ordered the men to stop harassing the woman. “At first, the men even shoved the armymen, but stopped after they saw there were other soldiers in the van. It seemed like they were on a mission and looking for a victim,” she said, adding she is too shaken to file a complaint. Later the same day, at 9 p.m., a young filmmaker was attacked by four men near High Grounds, past the Mount Carmel College. “At first, they jostled me and I told them to back off. They shouted obscenities in Kannada. I yelled back in English, which seemed to provoke them. It grew into a fight when they punched me and said I ‘deserved’ it for wearing jeans and sleeveless kurta and walking alone at night.” She managed to get into an autorickshaw and flee but not before they tried to drag her out. She registered a complaint at the High Grounds Police Station on Wednesday morning. From santhosh.kanipayur at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 11:11:22 2009 From: santhosh.kanipayur at gmail.com (Santhosh Kumar) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:11:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Stand up to the mullahs" - Vir Sanghvi In-Reply-To: <620676.42571.qm@web51406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <845139.72202.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <620676.42571.qm@web51406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <19d498870902252141v2ba1e962iae79caa067d7b747@mail.gmail.com> all hardliners are objecting to all kinds of things! no one can compromise on basic human rights! this has precedence over all the so called sentiments and traditions. i agree with with Yousuf, let us start a dialogue with all hardliners. santhosh On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 8:20 PM, Yousuf wrote: > > Dear Kshmendra > Thanks a lot for forwarding the article by Vir Sanghvi. Since the Sarai > list has been behaving strangely, I got your message only today (and from > the sarai archives I also found out that within minutes after posting your > message you have started asking why the Sarai liberals and secularists etc. > are selectively silent on this) Please allow everyone to see the mail. > > I agree with Vir Sanghvi that the "liberal people" have given in too much > to the sensitivities of the "religious people". We have to always remain > extra cautious about not hurting the sensibilities of the fundamentalists. > And why can't they be sensitive about the hurt of the liberals. And why do > we have to always prove in the end that Islam is really a religion of peace > and so on. I think we have discussed this issue many times on this list as > well as other forums, with examples such as MF Hussain and the Prophet > cartoons. One really doesn't know what could be done about it except to > condemn the people who get provoked at the slightest pretext. But I would > like to go back to some of the interesting debates we had last year after > one of Hussain's art exhibits was attacked in Delhi. Please see this > particular one: > > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2008-August/014282.html > > The same month also has some interesting posts on Hussain by Inder and > others. > > I think in most cases, as we have seen in the past, the provocation doesn't > really arise from the artwork or a write-up itself (or an individual reading > of it). A problem starts mostly when the subject matter is exploited for > political gains by a religious/political leaders. But Vir's distinction that > so and so community is prone to more hurt than the other community is > debatable, since we have seen all kinds of people get provoked on small > matters (it doesn't always have to be art or literature). > > Vir says that if Muslims are banned from making the picture of the prophet, > let them not do it. But why should the non-Muslims refrain from it. What I > would like to add here is that Islam is really not against the pictures of > the Prophet - his images have been made in the Islamic world itself > throughout the history (besides the production of plenty of other liberal > forms of arts and literature which is not imaginable in today's Islamic > world). And so is the case with the history of liberal arts in all > religions, communities and countries. But this fact (about our liberal > history) is probably known and appreciated more by today's liberals than by > the ultra-sensitive mullahs. So, my question is: should the liberals and > fundamentalists continue to remain on an offensive by hurting each other, or > should the liberals (who probably know and appreciate history and society > better) play a proactive role in trying to inform the extremists about the > more liberal > history we had. > > I don't know if I am making sense here, but this idea of "educating" people > about the sensitivities of the liberals (when I proposed it) was criticized > a lot by people on this list. > > Yousuf > > > --- On Tue, 2/24/09, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > > From: Kshmendra Kaul > > Subject: [Reader-list] "Stand up to the mullahs" - Vir Sanghvi > > To: "sarai list" > > Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 3:02 PM > > Vir Sanghvi seems to have been provoked into writing this > > piece by the protest by Muslims against The Statesman which > > had reproduced an article by Johann Hari "Why should I > > respect these oppressive religions?" first published in > > The Independent (UK). > > > > EXTRACTS: > > > > - It is now clear that the liberal society has been > > suckered into relaxing its standards for free speech by > > militant Islamists. > > > > - But so what if Muslims cannot visually represent their > > Prophet? Why should non-Muslims be bound by their religious > > edicts? Why should non-believing Muslims be forced by > > liberal society to obey the restrictions of their religion? > > > > - Believers should follow what the Holy Book and the > > mullahs say. But why should the rest of us? Why should we > > abandon our right to free expression? > > > > - Nobody I know has ever explained why the double standards > > are justified. > > > > - The real reason we give in to Islamic fanatics is the > > desire for a peaceful life or, to put it another way, > > cowardice. > > > > - Every one of their objections is always framed in terms > > of violence. Ban The Satanic Verses or we will kill Salman > > Rushdie. Apologise for the Danish cartoons or we will offer > > a reward for the head of the cartoonist. Arrest the editor > > of the Statesman or we will shut Calcutta down by rioting in > > the streets. > > > > - Faced with these threats, we abandon our principles and > > say things like, “Come on, is a single article worth the > > death of so many people?” or “Let’s just ban the book, > > otherwise these guys will keep rioting.” > > > > - The fanatics know this. They have identified the > > cowardice at the heart of our liberalism. So every demand is > > a) pitched in terms of protecting the religious sentiments > > of the Muslim community or b) facing murder, mayhem and > > more. > > > > - Almost every single time, we cave in. Either we say that > > Islam is a peaceful religion. > > Or we get death threats. > > > > - Isn’t it time to finally stand up to these thugs and > > blackmailers? It is up to the Muslim community to rein in > > its fanatics and some moderates are indeed trying to do > > this. > > > > - But as far as secular society is concerned, our position > > should be clear. We believe in free speech as guaranteed by > > our Constitution, not as defined by the mullahs. > > > > Kshmendra > > > > > > "Stand up to the mullahs" > > Vir Sanghvi, Hindustan Times > > February 21, 2009 > > > > If you have missed the controversy that led to the arrest > > of the editor of The Statesman in Calcutta for offending > > religious sentiments — which you might have, because the > > national media downplayed the issue — then here’s what > > it is about. > > > > The Statesman reproduced an article by Johann Hari, the > > young liberal British commentator, from The Independent. > > Hari’s politics are clear: he stands up for secularism > > (for which he has won awards), tolerance (he has defended > > Islam against such critics as Mark Steyn) and environmental > > concerns. > > > > The column in question was about attempts by the > > governments of some Islamic states to alter the UN’s > > commitment to free speech. These governments argue that free > > speech must be restricted on grounds of offence to religion > > and that discussions of certain issues relating to the > > rights of women must be curtailed because they could be > > anti-Islamic. > > > > Hari makes the obvious objections to all of this and then > > says that religion can often be oppressive. So, why should > > people be stopped from speaking out against it? He quotes > > examples of regressive practices from all religions and says > > that just because these occur in accounts of the lives of > > gods, messiahs or prophets, that does not make them above > > criticism. > > > > Who could possibly object to that? > > > > Well, a small section of politically-motivated Islamic > > fanatics in Calcutta, that’s who. > > > > As the people who rioted did not seem like typical > > Statesman readers (they were not genteel Bengalis, aged 60 > > and above), it is a fair assumption that some cynical leader > > of an extreme faction of the Muslim community told his > > followers about the ‘grave insult to Islam” and sent > > them off to riot. > > > > The CPI(M) government then arrested The Statesman’s > > editor and publisher. But the arrest — though clearly > > unjustified — seems to have been largely symbolic. They > > were quickly released and the mobs, satisfied that “action > > had been taken”, melted away. > > > > Several points need to be made about the incident. > > > > First: The article itself. There is not one line in > > Hari’s piece that I would disagree with. If religions > > deserve respect, then so does atheism. Followers of > > religions have every right to their views and practices. But > > so do atheists have the right to criticise religion. Nothing > > in this world is above criticism. > > > > Two: The rioters said they were offended by a passage in > > the article where Hari referred to the Prophet’s marriage > > to a much younger woman and his directive to burn Jewish > > villages. (In all fairness, he was as critical of other > > religions and of the Israeli assault on the West Bank.) > > > > The rioters say that nobody can criticise any aspect of the > > Prophet’s life. > > > > Why? > > > > There’s no shortage of books and articles criticising > > Jesus, suggesting that he might have been secretly married > > (as in The DaVinci Code), arguing that the resurrection was > > a hoax or that Mary was never a virgin. > > > > Similarly, would mainstream Hindus be offended if somebody > > wrote that Hindu mythology features practices that we would > > find abhorrent today: one wife for five husbands as in the > > Mahabharat, the compulsive philandering of Krishna or the > > appalling mistreatment of Sita (the agni pariksha etc)? > > > > Some Hindu extremists may protest but I doubt if they would > > get very far with their objections. The community, as a > > whole, would shrug its shoulders and many Hindus will agree > > with the critics. > > > > > > > > And yet, it is an article of faith with Muslims — even > > moderate ones — that the Prophet’s life is beyond > > reproach. > > > > Does this make any sense? > > > > Three: It is now clear that the liberal society has been > > suckered into relaxing its standards for free speech by > > militant Islamists. > > > > Let’s take the most obvious example. Every liberal I know > > is outraged by the attacks on MF Husain. Why shouldn’t he > > paint nude Saraswatis? That’s his right. If people are > > offended by the paintings, they shouldn’t see them. > > > > So far, so good. But now imagine that Husain had painted an > > extremely reverential portrait of the Prophet. (Never mind > > cartoons, nude pictures etc.) > > > > There would have been riots. And even secular liberals > > would not have supported him. > > > > We would have said: Islam prohibits any visual > > representation of the Prophet so Husain has committed a > > great crime. > > > > But so what if Muslims cannot visually represent their > > Prophet? Why should non-Muslims be bound by their religious > > edicts? Why should non-believing Muslims be forced by > > liberal society to obey the restrictions of their religion? > > > > Believers should follow what the Holy Book and the mullahs > > say. But why should the rest of us? Why should we abandon > > our right to free expression? > > > > Nobody I know has ever explained why the double standards > > are justified. > > > > Four: The reason we are suckered into accepting these > > double standards is because Muslim politicians play good > > cop-bad cop. > > > > Look, they say, we are all for freedom of speech. But if > > you say anything that the fanatics object to, then they will > > take to the streets, burn property and hurt innocent people. > > We will do our best to pacify our community, but you must > > remove any provocation that will cause the hardliners to > > revolt. > > > > Turn this around. How would Muslims have reacted if Hindu > > moderates had said to them: Look, we think this whole Ram > > Janmbhoomi thing is nonsense. But the BJP will gain support > > on this platform. So why don’t you agree to move the Babri > > Masjid? It’s not even a functioning mosque. That way, we > > remove the provocation and rid the hardliners of their issue > > and ensure communal harmony. > > > > Well, Hindu moderates did say this. And we know how > > moderate Muslim politicians reacted. > > > > Five: The real reason we give in to Islamic fanatics is the > > desire for a peaceful life or, to put it another way, > > cowardice. > > > > Every one of their objections is always framed in terms of > > violence. Ban The Satanic Verses or we will kill Salman > > Rushdie. Apologise for the Danish cartoons or we will offer > > a reward for the head of the cartoonist. Arrest the editor > > of the Statesman or we will shut Calcutta down by rioting in > > the streets. > > > > Faced with these threats, we abandon our principles and say > > things like, “Come on, is a single article worth the death > > of so many people?” or “Let’s just ban the book, > > otherwise these guys will keep rioting.” > > > > The fanatics know this. They have identified the cowardice > > at the heart of our liberalism. So every demand is a) > > pitched in terms of protecting the religious sentiments of > > the Muslim community or b) facing murder, mayhem and more. > > > > Almost every single time, we cave in. > > > > Either we say that Islam is a peaceful religion. > > > > Or we get death threats. > > > > And finally: Isn’t it time to finally stand up to these > > thugs and blackmailers? It is up to the Muslim community to > > rein in its fanatics and some moderates are indeed trying to > > do this. > > > > But as far as secular society is concerned, our position > > should be clear. We believe in free speech as guaranteed by > > our Constitution, not as defined by the mullahs. > > > > Anything less would be a betrayal of the liberal, secular > > values we hold dear. > > > > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/Print.aspx?Id=630b8c69-4672-4e12-ac2a-a9073f5165d4 > > > > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePage&id=630b8c69-4672-4e12-ac2a-a9073f5165d4&MatchID1=4932&TeamID1=7&TeamID2=8&MatchType1=1&SeriesID1=1247&PrimaryID=4932&Headline=Stand+up+to+the+mullahs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > > header. > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > From santhosh.kanipayur at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 12:56:10 2009 From: santhosh.kanipayur at gmail.com (Santhosh Kumar) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 12:56:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Parveena (APDP) speaks on March 1st in Bangalore Message-ID: <19d498870902252326l168c42c9r6412db70de14246@mail.gmail.com> Dear Friends, Greetings from Other Media Communications! Ms. Parveena Ahangar, Association for the Parents of the Disappeared Persons (APDP) in Kashmir is sharing her experiences and the Kashmir situation on March 1st afternoon 1.45PM. Our film on Kashmir "There was a Queen' is being screened on same day at 10.00AM. (It has recently won 4th John Abraham National Award for 'Cinema of Resistance' at SIGNS-2009 in Trivandrum, Kerala.) Both the programmes are happening as part of a film festival on Kashmir, PARA-DIES ON EARTH held on 28th February and 1st of March 2009 in St. Joseph College of Arts and Science, Shanthinagar organised by a group of students from Christ College, Bangalore. We cordially invite you all for the programme. For more details: contact- santhosh at othermediacommunications.com Regards, Santhosh From rajenradhika at vsnl.net Thu Feb 26 12:58:54 2009 From: rajenradhika at vsnl.net (rajenradhika at vsnl.net) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 12:28:54 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] reader-list Digest, Vol 67, Issue 77 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: reader-list-request at sarai.net Date: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 11:18 pm Subject: reader-list Digest, Vol 67, Issue 77 To: reader-list at sarai.net > Send reader-list mailing list submissions to > reader-list at sarai.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > reader-list-request at sarai.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > reader-list-owner at sarai.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. BANGLADESH: PM declares amnesty for mutineers (Naeem Mohaiemen) > 2. Film Screening, Yale Art Gallery, Yale University, 2.25, > 7:30pm (Paul D. Miller) > 3. Yale Art Gallery, Film Screening, 2.25 7:30pm (Paul D. Miller) > 4. Re: "Stand up to the mullahs" - Vir Sanghvi (Yousuf) > 5. invitation (Veena Shekar) > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 18:36:21 +0600 > From: Naeem Mohaiemen > Subject: [Reader-list] BANGLADESH: PM declares amnesty for mutineers > To: "reader-list at sarai.net" > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2009/02/25/photos-bdr-gate/ > http://unheardvoice.net/blog/2009/02/25/bdr-mutiny/ > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7909557.stm > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 07:46:01 -0500 (GMT-05:00) > From: "Paul D. Miller" > Subject: [Reader-list] Film Screening, Yale Art Gallery, Yale > University, 2.25, 7:30pm > To: sarai > Message-ID: > <3509199.1235565962275.JavaMail.root at elwamui- > hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hi you all - here's the info on my film premier screening at Yale. > Any of you have friends there? We will have lots and lots of people > for the premier, and there are about 50 other screenings of the > film throughout the country plus Tokyo, Singapore, Paris, London, > Berlin, etc etc If you're interested in screening the film, > definitely let me know! We're working with local groups all over > the country to present it. > Details: > > > www.rebirthofanation.com > > come on by! > Paul aka Dj Spooky > > Details: > > Yale Art Gallery event to feature DJ Spooky > > Susan Z. Hart, Administrator > > Film Studies Program > > Yale University > > 53 Wall Street > > P.O. Box 208363 > > New Haven, CT 06520-8363 > > phone: 203-436-4668 > > fax: 203-432-6764 > > www.yale.edu/filmstudiesprogram > > > > http://opa.yale.edu/bulletin/yale_bulletin_section.aspx?id=129&type=VC&pub_id=32 > > On Wednesday, Feb. 25, Paul D. Miller, also known as DJ Spooky That > Subliminal Kid, will visit the campus to screen his newly released > DVD "Rebirth of a Nation." > > The screening and question-and-answer session will take place at > 7:30 p.m. in McNeil Lecture Hall, Yale University Art Gallery, 1111 > Chapel St. at York Street. The event is free and open to the > public. The gallery is closed during this event; enter the McNeil > Lecture Hall from High or York Street. > > Miller will be the guest at a master's tea at 4 p.m. in the Calhoun > College master's house, 100 Tower Pkwy. His visit is sponsored by > the Yale University Art Gallery, Department of Music, New Ideas in > African-American Studies, Calhoun College, Film Studies and the > Yale Research Initiative on the History of Sexualities. > > Paul D. Miller aka DJ Spooky > That Subliminal Kid > Wednesday, February 25, 2009 > 7:30PM > McNeil Lecture Hall > Yale University Art Gallery > > Rebirth of A Nation > Celebrating the DVD release > with screening and Q&A with > DJ Spooky > Admission is free. (Note: the Gallery will be closed during this > event; enter the McNeil > Lecture Hall from High or York Street.) > Paul D. Miller, electronic musician and multimedia performer will > celebrate the DVD > release of Rebirth of A Nation with the Yale community. Rebirth of > A Nation is Paul > Miller (DJ Spooky)’s audiovisual remix of the DW Griffith film > "Birth of A Nation" for > three screen digital video projection. Miller has taken a newly > restored print of the > original film, and edited, manipulated and remixed it. Originally > commissioned as a live > multimedia performance, REBIRTH OF A NATION the DVD features an > original score > by Miller performed by Kronos Quartet. The film is ‘a DJ mix > applied to cinema’ that > challenges our legacy of revisionist history as it deconstructs one > of the most influential > Paul D. Miller is a conceptual artist, writer, and musician working > in New York. His > written work has appeared in The Village Voice, The Source, > Artforum, Raygun, Rap > Pages, Paper Magazine, and a host of other periodicals. Miller has > also published the > manifesto Rhythm Science and Sound Unbound, a collection of essays > on music, > There will be a Master’s Tea with DJ Spooky (Paul D. Miller) on > Wednesday, February > This event is sponsored by the Yale University Art Gallery, > Department of Music, New Ideas in > African-American Studies, Calhoun College, Film Studies and the > Yale Research Initiative on the > History of Sexualities. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 07:50:31 -0500 (GMT-05:00) > From: "Paul D. Miller" > Subject: [Reader-list] Yale Art Gallery, Film Screening, 2.25 7:30pm > To: sarai list > Message-ID: > <5907383.1235566232279.JavaMail.root at elwamui- > hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hello you all! I'm having a screening of my new film at Yale > University tonite. If anyone from the list is in the area, come by! > There'll be lots of people from different scenes, and it's an open > situation.in peace, > Paul > > details: > > Paul D. Miller aka DJ Spooky > That Subliminal Kid > > > Wednesday, February 25, 2009 > 7:30PM > McNeil Lecture Hall > Yale University Art Gallery > > Rebirth of A Nation > Celebrating the DVD release > with screening and Q&A with > DJ Spooky > > Admission is free. (Note: the Gallery will be closed during this > event; enter the McNeil > Lecture Hall from High or York Street.) > > > > Paul D. Miller, electronic musician and multimedia performer will > celebrate the DVD > release of Rebirth of A Nation with the Yale community. Rebirth of > A Nation is Paul > Miller (DJ Spooky)’s audiovisual remix of the DW Griffith film > "Birth of A Nation" for > three screen digital video projection. Miller has taken a newly > restored print of the > original film, and edited, manipulated and remixed it. Originally > commissioned as a live > multimedia performance, REBIRTH OF A NATION the DVD features an > original score > by Miller performed by Kronos Quartet. The film is ‘a DJ mix > applied to cinema’ that > challenges our legacy of revisionist history as it deconstructs one > of the most influential > Paul D. Miller is a conceptual artist, writer, and musician working > in New York. His > written work has appeared in The Village Voice, The Source, > Artforum, Raygun, Rap > Pages, Paper Magazine, and a host of other periodicals. Miller has > also published the > manifesto Rhythm Science and Sound Unbound, a collection of essays > on music, > There will be a Master’s Tea with DJ Spooky (Paul D. Miller) on > Wednesday, February > This event is sponsored by the Yale University Art Gallery, > Department of Music, New Ideas in > African-American Studies, Calhoun College, Film Studies and the > Yale Research Initiative on the > History of Sexualities. > > > > -----------------In response to Message: 4, it gives me pain and disgust to inform you all, that in Karnataka, when the minister Dr.Mumtaz Ali Khan, in charge of wakf and haj and minority affairs, known for his most progressive thoughts, secular credentials, was targetted by a handful of dviants for assumed remark in his speech "comparing" good works of an individual to prophet, saying none should be even compared with good works of prophet.! Regards. > Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 06:50:49 -0800 (PST) > From: Yousuf > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Stand up to the mullahs" - Vir Sanghvi > To: sarai list , kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > Message-ID: <620676.42571.qm at web51406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > Dear Kshmendra > Thanks a lot for forwarding the article by Vir Sanghvi. Since the > Sarai list has been behaving strangely, I got your message only > today (and from the sarai archives I also found out that within > minutes after posting your message you have started asking why the > Sarai liberals and secularists etc. are selectively silent on this) > Please allow everyone to see the mail. > > I agree with Vir Sanghvi that the "liberal people" have given in > too much to the sensitivities of the "religious people". We have to > always remain extra cautious about not hurting the sensibilities of > the fundamentalists. And why can't they be sensitive about the hurt > of the liberals. And why do we have to always prove in the end that > Islam is really a religion of peace and so on. I think we have > discussed this issue many times on this list as well as other > forums, with examples such as MF Hussain and the Prophet cartoons. > One really doesn't know what could be done about it except to > condemn the people who get provoked at the slightest pretext. But I > would like to go back to some of the interesting debates we had > last year after one of Hussain's art exhibits was attacked in > Delhi. Please see this particular one: > > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2008-August/014282.html > > The same month also has some interesting posts on Hussain by Inder > and others. > > I think in most cases, as we have seen in the past, the provocation > doesn't really arise from the artwork or a write-up itself (or an > individual reading of it). A problem starts mostly when the subject > matter is exploited for political gains by a religious/political > leaders. But Vir's distinction that so and so community is prone to > more hurt than the other community is debatable, since we have seen > all kinds of people get provoked on small matters (it doesn't > always have to be art or literature). > > Vir says that if Muslims are banned from making the picture of the > prophet, let them not do it. But why should the non-Muslims refrain > from it. What I would like to add here is that Islam is really not > against the pictures of the Prophet - his images have been made in > the Islamic world itself throughout the history (besides the > production of plenty of other liberal forms of arts and literature > which is not imaginable in today's Islamic world). And so is the > case with the history of liberal arts in all religions, communities > and countries. But this fact (about our liberal history) is > probably known and appreciated more by today's liberals than by the > ultra-sensitive mullahs. So, my question is: should the liberals > and fundamentalists continue to remain on an offensive by hurting > each other, or should the liberals (who probably know and > appreciate history and society better) play a proactive role in > trying to inform the extremists about the more liberal > history we had. > > I don't know if I am making sense here, but this idea of > "educating" people about the sensitivities of the liberals (when I > proposed it) was criticized a lot by people on this list. > > Yousuf > > > --- On Tue, 2/24/09, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > > > From: Kshmendra Kaul > > Subject: [Reader-list] "Stand up to the mullahs" - Vir Sanghvi > > To: "sarai list" > > Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 3:02 PM > > Vir Sanghvi seems to have been provoked into writing this > > piece by the protest by Muslims against The Statesman which > > had reproduced an article by Johann Hari "Why should I > > respect these oppressive religions?" first published in > > The Independent (UK). > >   > > EXTRACTS: > >   > > - It is now clear that the liberal society has been > > suckered into relaxing its standards for free speech by > > militant Islamists. > >   > > - But so what if Muslims cannot visually represent their > > Prophet? Why should non-Muslims be bound by their religious > > edicts? Why should non-believing Muslims be forced by > > liberal society to obey the restrictions of their religion? > >   > > - Believers should follow what the Holy Book and the > > mullahs say. But why should the rest of us? Why should we > > abandon our right to free expression? > >   > > - Nobody I know has ever explained why the double standards > > are justified. > >   > > - The real reason we give in to Islamic fanatics is the > > desire for a peaceful life or, to put it another way, > > cowardice. > >   > > - Every one of their objections is always framed in terms > > of violence. Ban The Satanic Verses or we will kill Salman > > Rushdie. Apologise for the Danish cartoons or we will offer > > a reward for the head of the cartoonist. Arrest the editor > > of the Statesman or we will shut Calcutta down by rioting in > > the streets. > >   > > - Faced with these threats, we abandon our principles and > > say things like, “Come on, is a single article worth the > > death of so many people?” or “Let’s just ban the book, > > otherwise these guys will keep rioting.” > >   > > - The fanatics know this. They have identified the > > cowardice at the heart of our liberalism. So every demand is > > a) pitched in terms of protecting the religious sentiments > > of the Muslim community or b) facing murder, mayhem and > > more. > >   > > - Almost every single time, we cave in. Either we say that > > Islam is a peaceful religion. > > Or we get death threats. > >   > > -  Isn’t it time to finally stand up to these thugs and > > blackmailers? It is up to the Muslim community to rein in > > its fanatics and some moderates are indeed trying to do > > this. > >   > > - But as far as secular society is concerned, our position > > should be clear. We believe in free speech as guaranteed by > > our Constitution, not as defined by the mullahs. > >   > > Kshmendra > >   > >   > > "Stand up to the mullahs" > > Vir Sanghvi, Hindustan Times > > February 21, 2009 > >   > > If you have missed the controversy that led to the arrest > > of the editor of The Statesman in Calcutta for offending > > religious sentiments — which you might have, because the > > national media downplayed the issue — then here’s what > > it is about. > >   > > The Statesman reproduced an article by Johann Hari, the > > young liberal British commentator, from The Independent. > > Hari’s politics are clear: he stands up for secularism > > (for which he has won awards), tolerance (he has defended > > Islam against such critics as Mark Steyn) and environmental > > concerns. > >   > > The column in question was about attempts by the > > governments of some Islamic states to alter the UN’s > > commitment to free speech. These governments argue that free > > speech must be restricted on grounds of offence to religion > > and that discussions of certain issues relating to the > > rights of women must be curtailed because they could be > > anti-Islamic. > >   > > Hari makes the obvious objections to all of this and then > > says that religion can often be oppressive. So, why should > > people be stopped from speaking out against it? He quotes > > examples of regressive practices from all religions and says > > that just because these occur in accounts of the lives of > > gods, messiahs or prophets, that does not make them above > > criticism. > >   > > Who could possibly object to that? > >   > > Well, a small section of politically-motivated Islamic > > fanatics in Calcutta, that’s who. > >   > > As the people who rioted did not seem like typical > > Statesman readers (they were not genteel Bengalis, aged 60 > > and above), it is a fair assumption that some cynical leader > > of an extreme faction of the Muslim community told his > > followers about the ‘grave insult to Islam” and sent > > them off to riot. > >   > > The CPI(M) government then arrested The Statesman’s > > editor and publisher. But the arrest — though clearly > > unjustified — seems to have been largely symbolic. They > > were quickly released and the mobs, satisfied that “action > > had been taken”, melted away. > >   > > Several points need to be made about the incident. > >   > > First: The article itself. There is not one line in > > Hari’s piece that I would disagree with. If religions > > deserve respect, then so does atheism. Followers of > > religions have every right to their views and practices. But > > so do atheists have the right to criticise religion. Nothing > > in this world is above criticism. > >   > > Two: The rioters said they were offended by a passage in > > the article where Hari referred to the Prophet’s marriage > > to a much younger woman and his directive to burn Jewish > > villages. (In all fairness, he was as critical of other > > religions and of the Israeli assault on the West Bank.) > >   > > The rioters say that nobody can criticise any aspect of the > > Prophet’s life. > >   > > Why? > >   > > There’s no shortage of books and articles criticising > > Jesus, suggesting that he might have been secretly married > > (as in The DaVinci Code), arguing that the resurrection was > > a hoax or that Mary was never a virgin. > >   > > Similarly, would mainstream Hindus be offended if somebody > > wrote that Hindu mythology features practices that we would > > find abhorrent today: one wife for five husbands as in the > > Mahabharat, the compulsive philandering of Krishna or the > > appalling mistreatment of Sita (the agni pariksha etc)? > >   > > Some Hindu extremists may protest but I doubt if they would > > get very far with their objections. The community, as a > > whole, would shrug its shoulders and many Hindus will agree > > with the critics. > >   > > > > > > And yet, it is an article of faith with Muslims — even > > moderate ones — that the Prophet’s life is beyond > > reproach. > >   > > Does this make any sense? > >   > > Three: It is now clear that the liberal society has been > > suckered into relaxing its standards for free speech by > > militant Islamists. > >   > > Let’s take the most obvious example. Every liberal I know > > is outraged by the attacks on MF Husain. Why shouldn’t he > > paint nude Saraswatis? That’s his right. If people are > > offended by the paintings, they shouldn’t see them. > >   > > So far, so good. But now imagine that Husain had painted an > > extremely reverential portrait of the Prophet. (Never mind > > cartoons, nude pictures etc.) > >   > > There would have been riots. And even secular liberals > > would not have supported him. > >   > > We would have said: Islam prohibits any visual > > representation of the Prophet so Husain has committed a > > great crime. > >   > > But so what if Muslims cannot visually represent their > > Prophet? Why should non-Muslims be bound by their religious > > edicts? Why should non-believing Muslims be forced by > > liberal society to obey the restrictions of their religion? > >   > > Believers should follow what the Holy Book and the mullahs > > say. But why should the rest of us? Why should we abandon > > our right to free expression? > >   > > Nobody I know has ever explained why the double standards > > are justified. > >   > > Four: The reason we are suckered into accepting these > > double standards is because Muslim politicians play good > > cop-bad cop. > >   > > Look, they say, we are all for freedom of speech. But if > > you say anything that the fanatics object to, then they will > > take to the streets, burn property and hurt innocent people. > > We will do our best to pacify our community, but you must > > remove any provocation that will cause the hardliners to > > revolt. > >   > > Turn this around. How would Muslims have reacted if Hindu > > moderates had said to them: Look, we think this whole Ram > > Janmbhoomi thing is nonsense. But the BJP will gain support > > on this platform. So why don’t you agree to move the Babri > > Masjid? It’s not even a functioning mosque. That way, we > > remove the provocation and rid the hardliners of their issue > > and ensure communal harmony. > >   > > Well, Hindu moderates did say this. And we know how > > moderate Muslim politicians reacted. > >   > > Five: The real reason we give in to Islamic fanatics is the > > desire for a peaceful life or, to put it another way, > > cowardice. > >   > > Every one of their objections is always framed in terms of > > violence. Ban The Satanic Verses or we will kill Salman > > Rushdie. Apologise for the Danish cartoons or we will offer > > a reward for the head of the cartoonist. Arrest the editor > > of the Statesman or we will shut Calcutta down by rioting in > > the streets. > >   > > Faced with these threats, we abandon our principles and say > > things like, “Come on, is a single article worth the death > > of so many people?” or “Let’s just ban the book, > > otherwise these guys will keep rioting.” > >   > > The fanatics know this. They have identified the cowardice > > at the heart of our liberalism. So every demand is a) > > pitched in terms of protecting the religious sentiments of > > the Muslim community or b) facing murder, mayhem and more. > >   > > Almost every single time, we cave in. > >   > > Either we say that Islam is a peaceful religion. > >   > > Or we get death threats. > >   > > And finally: Isn’t it time to finally stand up to these > > thugs and blackmailers? It is up to the Muslim community to > > rein in its fanatics and some moderates are indeed trying to > > do this. > >   > > But as far as secular society is concerned, our position > > should be clear. We believe in free speech as guaranteed by > > our Constitution, not as defined by the mullahs. > >   > > Anything less would be a betrayal of the liberal, secular > > values we hold dear. > >   > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/Print.aspx?Id=630b8c69- > 4672-4e12-ac2a-a9073f5165d4 > >   > > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePage&id=630b8c69-4672-4e12-ac2a-a9073f5165d4&MatchID1=4932&TeamID1=7&TeamID2=8&MatchType1=1&SeriesID1=1247&PrimaryID=4932&Headline=Stand+up+to+the+mullahs > >   > >   > >   > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > > header. > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 23:17:55 +0530 > From: Veena Shekar > Subject: [Reader-list] invitation > To: reader-list at sarai.net > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > Chitralakshana cordially invites you for its premier show > > The Artists’ Word > > An Exhibition of Art works > > By Eminent Artists > > > > Curated By Dr. Veena Shekar > > > > On Sunday, 1st march 2009 > > Between 6.15 P.M to 7.30 P.M > > > > Mr. Justice M.N. Venkatachaliah > > Former Chief Justice of India > > Has kindly consented to inaugurate the show > > > > The show will remain open till the 7th March 2009 > > > > At Galleries 1 & 2 > > Karnataka Chitrakala Parishath > > Art Complex Kumara Krupa Road > > Bangalore-560001 > > Hosted by Sameeksha- Art Research, > > Media, Bangalore > > Www.sameeksha.org > > > -- > Dr. Veena Shekar > Art historian & Consultant > Bangalore > www.chitralakshana.com > 9886497427 > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > reader-list mailing list > reader-list at sarai.net > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > End of reader-list Digest, Vol 67, Issue 77 > ******************************************* > From tetranew at sarai.net Thu Feb 26 13:30:59 2009 From: tetranew at sarai.net (tetra) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 13:30:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] test mail please ignore Message-ID: <49A64C3B.2050605@sarai.net> _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From shuddha at sarai.net Thu Feb 26 14:43:46 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:43:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Stand up to the mullahs" - Vir Sanghvi In-Reply-To: <620676.42571.qm@web51406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <620676.42571.qm@web51406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2A5B7E43-9878-499C-B040-51F44B631DCC@sarai.net> Dear Kshmendra, I am surprised at your insinuation that there is a selectivity on the part of what you call 'Sarai liberals and secularists' to respond to matters that have to do with one confession of faith as opposed to another. First of all, who is a 'Sarai liberal or secularist'? Can you identify one, because I can't. Sarai is not a party with an official position. It does not have cadre who stick to one position, or even a cluster of positions. As individuals we all (everyone on the list, including you) may have different postions on different matters, but none of these are 'Sarai' positions. I do not make it my business to respond to each and every posting that appears on the Sarai Reader List. I am sure you do not either. If we were all constantly responding to every posting that occurred on the list then we would have very little time to do anything else. If I have once made a position clear, I do not see it necessary to repeat myself ad nauseam. I have made my position against Muslim fundamentalism, hindu fundamentalism, torture, the death penalty and forms of military occupation (whererever they may occur) abundantly clear on more than one occasion on this list, I do not therefore find it necessary to respond repetitively on the same set of issues. I would probably count as one of those who is often pilloried on this list as a 'liberal secularist' (though both presume a commitment to the project of the state, in its specifically liberal or secularist avatars, which I do not share, simply because I am not committed to any state form). That being said, I might remind you that there have been several instances where I (and others) have been sharply critical of the positions and politics of Islamic fundamentalists, exactly as we have been sharply critical of anyone or any tendency (be they of the right, left or centre) which has an authoritarian and repressive agenda. I personally recall having made postings and responses on the banning of Taslima Nasrin that were extremely critical of the Islamic Fundamentalist position on her freedom of speech and exprssion. I have said before and say so again, I support the right of any individual to express any statement through word, speech or image that is or can be read or understood as being offensive to Islam or somebody's interpretation of Islamic precepts and doctrines, precisely because I support the same right when it pertains to any religion, ideology or position, be it Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism or any other doctrine. I support the right of people to make and publish what might be considered (by themselves, or by others) offensive cartoons or ther representations of any religious figure (without exception). This has nothing to do with my personal taste or agreement with what is made or deemed offensive. I especially support the right of the freedom of speech and expression of those I disagree with (provided it is not defamation or libel), because it is actually meaningless to only root for the freedom of those who agree with your own views. I support the right to be heretical, blasphemous, and subversive in any context with reference to anything that is held sacred or sacrosant by anybody, including myself. So please refrain from making these blanket generalizations, a) about 'Sarai liberals or secularists' (an irrelevant category) or b) about what people might or might not have said in the past, without an adequate sense of what the archives of the list actually hold as a record of opinions and expressions by list members, My understanding of religious doctrines and practices does however demonstrate to me that no religion or ideology can claim (or have claimed on its behalf) a monopoly on repressiveness or on liberty. Every faith has been intolerant, and at the same time the adherents of every faith have been open and understanding and tolerant. No particular faith has been more intolerant or repressive in its history than any other. While I remain committed to being sharply critical of intolerance within Islam, I am equally critical of any effort to represent Islam and Islamicate cultures as being 'more' repressive and authoritarian than others, this tendency betrays a shallow understanding of the well established traditions of tolerance and liberality within Islamicate cultures (which compete with authoritarianism and repression within Islam/Islamicate culture), and the the authoritarian tendencies in other traditions, which are usually neglected by those who seek to exclusively focus on the career of repression within Islam and Islamicate cultures. I do not think this blame game is productive. regards Shuddha regards Shuddha On 25-Feb-09, at 8:20 PM, Yousuf wrote: > > Dear Kshmendra > Thanks a lot for forwarding the article by Vir Sanghvi. Since the > Sarai list has been behaving strangely, I got your message only > today (and from the sarai archives I also found out that within > minutes after posting your message you have started asking why the > Sarai liberals and secularists etc. are selectively silent on this) > Please allow everyone to see the mail. > > I agree with Vir Sanghvi that the "liberal people" have given in > too much to the sensitivities of the "religious people". We have to > always remain extra cautious about not hurting the sensibilities of > the fundamentalists. And why can't they be sensitive about the hurt > of the liberals. And why do we have to always prove in the end that > Islam is really a religion of peace and so on. I think we have > discussed this issue many times on this list as well as other > forums, with examples such as MF Hussain and the Prophet cartoons. > One really doesn't know what could be done about it except to > condemn the people who get provoked at the slightest pretext. But I > would like to go back to some of the interesting debates we had > last year after one of Hussain's art exhibits was attacked in > Delhi. Please see this particular one: > > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2008-August/014282.html > > The same month also has some interesting posts on Hussain by Inder > and others. > > I think in most cases, as we have seen in the past, the provocation > doesn't really arise from the artwork or a write-up itself (or an > individual reading of it). A problem starts mostly when the subject > matter is exploited for political gains by a religious/political > leaders. But Vir's distinction that so and so community is prone to > more hurt than the other community is debatable, since we have seen > all kinds of people get provoked on small matters (it doesn't > always have to be art or literature). > > Vir says that if Muslims are banned from making the picture of the > prophet, let them not do it. But why should the non-Muslims refrain > from it. What I would like to add here is that Islam is really not > against the pictures of the Prophet - his images have been made in > the Islamic world itself throughout the history (besides the > production of plenty of other liberal forms of arts and literature > which is not imaginable in today's Islamic world). And so is the > case with the history of liberal arts in all religions, communities > and countries. But this fact (about our liberal history) is > probably known and appreciated more by today's liberals than by the > ultra-sensitive mullahs. So, my question is: should the liberals > and fundamentalists continue to remain on an offensive by hurting > each other, or should the liberals (who probably know and > appreciate history and society better) play a proactive role in > trying to inform the extremists about the more liberal > history we had. > > I don't know if I am making sense here, but this idea of > "educating" people about the sensitivities of the liberals (when I > proposed it) was criticized a lot by people on this list. > > Yousuf > > > --- On Tue, 2/24/09, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > >> From: Kshmendra Kaul >> Subject: [Reader-list] "Stand up to the mullahs" - Vir Sanghvi >> To: "sarai list" >> Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 3:02 PM >> Vir Sanghvi seems to have been provoked into writing this >> piece by the protest by Muslims against The Statesman which >> had reproduced an article by Johann Hari "Why should I >> respect these oppressive religions?" first published in >> The Independent (UK). >> >> EXTRACTS: >> >> - It is now clear that the liberal society has been >> suckered into relaxing its standards for free speech by >> militant Islamists. >> >> - But so what if Muslims cannot visually represent their >> Prophet? Why should non-Muslims be bound by their religious >> edicts? Why should non-believing Muslims be forced by >> liberal society to obey the restrictions of their religion? >> >> - Believers should follow what the Holy Book and the >> mullahs say. But why should the rest of us? Why should we >> abandon our right to free expression? >> >> - Nobody I know has ever explained why the double standards >> are justified. >> >> - The real reason we give in to Islamic fanatics is the >> desire for a peaceful life or, to put it another way, >> cowardice. >> >> - Every one of their objections is always framed in terms >> of violence. Ban The Satanic Verses or we will kill Salman >> Rushdie. Apologise for the Danish cartoons or we will offer >> a reward for the head of the cartoonist. Arrest the editor >> of the Statesman or we will shut Calcutta down by rioting in >> the streets. >> >> - Faced with these threats, we abandon our principles and >> say things like, “Come on, is a single article worth the >> death of so many people?” or “Let’s just ban the book, >> otherwise these guys will keep rioting.” >> >> - The fanatics know this. They have identified the >> cowardice at the heart of our liberalism. So every demand is >> a) pitched in terms of protecting the religious sentiments >> of the Muslim community or b) facing murder, mayhem and >> more. >> >> - Almost every single time, we cave in. Either we say that >> Islam is a peaceful religion. >> Or we get death threats. >> >> - Isn’t it time to finally stand up to these thugs and >> blackmailers? It is up to the Muslim community to rein in >> its fanatics and some moderates are indeed trying to do >> this. >> >> - But as far as secular society is concerned, our position >> should be clear. We believe in free speech as guaranteed by >> our Constitution, not as defined by the mullahs. >> >> Kshmendra >> >> >> "Stand up to the mullahs" >> Vir Sanghvi, Hindustan Times >> February 21, 2009 >> >> If you have missed the controversy that led to the arrest >> of the editor of The Statesman in Calcutta for offending >> religious sentiments — which you might have, because the >> national media downplayed the issue — then here’s what >> it is about. >> >> The Statesman reproduced an article by Johann Hari, the >> young liberal British commentator, from The Independent. >> Hari’s politics are clear: he stands up for secularism >> (for which he has won awards), tolerance (he has defended >> Islam against such critics as Mark Steyn) and environmental >> concerns. >> >> The column in question was about attempts by the >> governments of some Islamic states to alter the UN’s >> commitment to free speech. These governments argue that free >> speech must be restricted on grounds of offence to religion >> and that discussions of certain issues relating to the >> rights of women must be curtailed because they could be >> anti-Islamic. >> >> Hari makes the obvious objections to all of this and then >> says that religion can often be oppressive. So, why should >> people be stopped from speaking out against it? He quotes >> examples of regressive practices from all religions and says >> that just because these occur in accounts of the lives of >> gods, messiahs or prophets, that does not make them above >> criticism. >> >> Who could possibly object to that? >> >> Well, a small section of politically-motivated Islamic >> fanatics in Calcutta, that’s who. >> >> As the people who rioted did not seem like typical >> Statesman readers (they were not genteel Bengalis, aged 60 >> and above), it is a fair assumption that some cynical leader >> of an extreme faction of the Muslim community told his >> followers about the ‘grave insult to Islam” and sent >> them off to riot. >> >> The CPI(M) government then arrested The Statesman’s >> editor and publisher. But the arrest — though clearly >> unjustified — seems to have been largely symbolic. They >> were quickly released and the mobs, satisfied that “action >> had been taken”, melted away. >> >> Several points need to be made about the incident. >> >> First: The article itself. There is not one line in >> Hari’s piece that I would disagree with. If religions >> deserve respect, then so does atheism. Followers of >> religions have every right to their views and practices. But >> so do atheists have the right to criticise religion. Nothing >> in this world is above criticism. >> >> Two: The rioters said they were offended by a passage in >> the article where Hari referred to the Prophet’s marriage >> to a much younger woman and his directive to burn Jewish >> villages. (In all fairness, he was as critical of other >> religions and of the Israeli assault on the West Bank.) >> >> The rioters say that nobody can criticise any aspect of the >> Prophet’s life. >> >> Why? >> >> There’s no shortage of books and articles criticising >> Jesus, suggesting that he might have been secretly married >> (as in The DaVinci Code), arguing that the resurrection was >> a hoax or that Mary was never a virgin. >> >> Similarly, would mainstream Hindus be offended if somebody >> wrote that Hindu mythology features practices that we would >> find abhorrent today: one wife for five husbands as in the >> Mahabharat, the compulsive philandering of Krishna or the >> appalling mistreatment of Sita (the agni pariksha etc)? >> >> Some Hindu extremists may protest but I doubt if they would >> get very far with their objections. The community, as a >> whole, would shrug its shoulders and many Hindus will agree >> with the critics. >> >> >> >> And yet, it is an article of faith with Muslims — even >> moderate ones — that the Prophet’s life is beyond >> reproach. >> >> Does this make any sense? >> >> Three: It is now clear that the liberal society has been >> suckered into relaxing its standards for free speech by >> militant Islamists. >> >> Let’s take the most obvious example. Every liberal I know >> is outraged by the attacks on MF Husain. Why shouldn’t he >> paint nude Saraswatis? That’s his right. If people are >> offended by the paintings, they shouldn’t see them. >> >> So far, so good. But now imagine that Husain had painted an >> extremely reverential portrait of the Prophet. (Never mind >> cartoons, nude pictures etc.) >> >> There would have been riots. And even secular liberals >> would not have supported him. >> >> We would have said: Islam prohibits any visual >> representation of the Prophet so Husain has committed a >> great crime. >> >> But so what if Muslims cannot visually represent their >> Prophet? Why should non-Muslims be bound by their religious >> edicts? Why should non-believing Muslims be forced by >> liberal society to obey the restrictions of their religion? >> >> Believers should follow what the Holy Book and the mullahs >> say. But why should the rest of us? Why should we abandon >> our right to free expression? >> >> Nobody I know has ever explained why the double standards >> are justified. >> >> Four: The reason we are suckered into accepting these >> double standards is because Muslim politicians play good >> cop-bad cop. >> >> Look, they say, we are all for freedom of speech. But if >> you say anything that the fanatics object to, then they will >> take to the streets, burn property and hurt innocent people. >> We will do our best to pacify our community, but you must >> remove any provocation that will cause the hardliners to >> revolt. >> >> Turn this around. How would Muslims have reacted if Hindu >> moderates had said to them: Look, we think this whole Ram >> Janmbhoomi thing is nonsense. But the BJP will gain support >> on this platform. So why don’t you agree to move the Babri >> Masjid? It’s not even a functioning mosque. That way, we >> remove the provocation and rid the hardliners of their issue >> and ensure communal harmony. >> >> Well, Hindu moderates did say this. And we know how >> moderate Muslim politicians reacted. >> >> Five: The real reason we give in to Islamic fanatics is the >> desire for a peaceful life or, to put it another way, >> cowardice. >> >> Every one of their objections is always framed in terms of >> violence. Ban The Satanic Verses or we will kill Salman >> Rushdie. Apologise for the Danish cartoons or we will offer >> a reward for the head of the cartoonist. Arrest the editor >> of the Statesman or we will shut Calcutta down by rioting in >> the streets. >> >> Faced with these threats, we abandon our principles and say >> things like, “Come on, is a single article worth the death >> of so many people?” or “Let’s just ban the book, >> otherwise these guys will keep rioting.” >> >> The fanatics know this. They have identified the cowardice >> at the heart of our liberalism. So every demand is a) >> pitched in terms of protecting the religious sentiments of >> the Muslim community or b) facing murder, mayhem and more. >> >> Almost every single time, we cave in. >> >> Either we say that Islam is a peaceful religion. >> >> Or we get death threats. >> >> And finally: Isn’t it time to finally stand up to these >> thugs and blackmailers? It is up to the Muslim community to >> rein in its fanatics and some moderates are indeed trying to >> do this. >> >> But as far as secular society is concerned, our position >> should be clear. We believe in free speech as guaranteed by >> our Constitution, not as defined by the mullahs. >> >> Anything less would be a betrayal of the liberal, secular >> values we hold dear. >> >> http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/Print.aspx? >> Id=630b8c69-4672-4e12-ac2a-a9073f5165d4 >> >> http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx? >> sectionName=HomePage&id=630b8c69-4672-4e12-ac2a- >> a9073f5165d4&MatchID1=4932&TeamID1=7&TeamID2=8&MatchType1=1&SeriesID1 >> =1247&PrimaryID=4932&Headline=Stand+up+to+the+mullahs >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to >> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject >> header. >> To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: >> <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From rajeshr at csds.in Thu Feb 26 14:49:01 2009 From: rajeshr at csds.in (Rajesh Ramakrishnan) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:49:01 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] `The Buddha's Spiritual Awakening: Thoughts on the Phenomenology of the Visionary Experience' Message-ID: *Thursday, 5th March, 2009* You are invited to a talk on: *THE BUDDHA'S SPIRITUAL AWAKENING: THOUGHTS ON THE PHENOMENOLOGY OF THE VISIONARY EXPERIENCE* By *Professor* *Gananath Obeyesekere*** at *5 PM* in the *Seminar Room, CSDS, 29 Rajpur Road, Delhi – 110 054* Gananath Obeyesekere is Emeritus Professor of Anthropology at Princeton University, and currently holds the Rajni Kothari Chair at CSDS. He has taught for twenty years in Princeton till he retired in 2000. He was twice Chairman of the Department of Anthropology there. Prior to that he was Professor of Anthropology at the University of California, San Diego, and earlier Professor of Sociology at Peradeniya. He has given major public lectures all over the US, Europe and Australia and is the recipient of many awards, among them the Guggenheim Fellowship, Visiting Distinguished Scholar at the London School of Economics, Mellon Fellow at the National Humanities Center in the US and Harold White Fellow at the Australian National Library in Canberra. He is most interested in psychoanalysis and anthropology and the ways in which personal symbolism is related to religious experience. He has recently become interested in European voyages of discovery to Polynesia in the 18th century and after, and the implications of these voyages for the development of ethnography. He is the author of six books and over a hundred scholarly articles. His books are: *Land Tenure in Village Ceylon: A Sociological and Historical Study*, Cambridge University Press (1966); *Medusa's Hair: An Essay on Personal Symbols and Religious Experience*, University of Chicago Press, 1981; *The Cult of the Goddess Pattini*, University of Chicago Press, 1984; *Buddhism Transformed* (with Richard Gombrich), Princeton University Press, 1988; *Medusa's Hair*, (Japanese trans. by Shibuya Toshio), Tokyo, 1988; *The Work of Culture: Symbolic Transformation in Psychoanalysis and Anthropology*, University of Chicago Press, 1990; *The Apotheosis of Captain Cook: European Mythmaking in the Pacific*, Princeton University Press, 1992, and *Imagining Karma: Ethical Transformation in Amerindian, Buddhist and Greek Rebirth*, University of California Press, to appear July 2002. Several of his books are being currently translated into Japanese. He is currently working on a book, *The Awakened Ones*, on the phenomenology of the visionary experience. From peaceshantiaman at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 15:15:27 2009 From: peaceshantiaman at gmail.com (Aman Shanti) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 15:15:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Countering Pakistani terrorists' anti-India propaganda Message-ID: Sometime ago, Anupam reacted to our appeal by wondering why should only Indian Muslims be against terrorism. Here is a recent article by an Indian maulvi from Deoband that is worth looking at: ------ Countering Pakistani terrorists' anti-India propaganda By Maulana Waris Mazhari, (Translated from Urdu by Yoginder Sikand) For almost two decades now, self-styled jihadist outfits based in Pakistan have been engaged in a war against India in Kashmir. This war of theirs has no sanction in Islam, which does not allow for proxy war, and that too one declared by non-state actors. It is an explicit violation of all Islamic principles. These outfits, which have considerable support inside Pakistan, see the conflict between India and Pakistan over Kashmir as a religious struggle, and they wrongly describe it as a jihad. They regard their role in Kashmir as but the first step in a grand, though completely fanciful, plan to annex India into Pakistan and convert it into what they style as dar- ul-islam, the Abode of Islam. But what they finally dream of establishing, or so they boast, is Muslim hegemony throughout the entire world. I have used the term 'hegemony' here deliberately, for radical Muslim groups in Pakistan and in the Arab world have been indelibly influenced and shaped by the hegemonic designs of European colonialism in the past and Western imperialism today, and, in some senses, are a reaction to this hegemonic project. They seek to counter Western political supremacy and replace it by what they conceive of as Islamic political supremacy. In my view, this approach is in sharp contradistinction to Islamic teachings. The term ghalba-e islam, the establishment of the supremacy of Islam, used in the context of the Quran and the sayings of the Prophet (Hadith), refers not to any political project of Muslim domination, but, rather, to the establishment of the superiority of Islam's ideological and spiritual message. This, in fact, was the basic crux of the mission of the Prophet Muhammad. However, the term has been distorted at the hands of the self-styled jihadists, who present it as a project to establish Muslim or Islamic political domination over the entire world. War against India Today, as the case of the Pakistani self-styled jihadists so tragically illustrates, many of those who claim to be struggling in the cause of Islam themselves work against Islamic teachings by deliberately or otherwise misinterpreting them. This is the case with their misuse of the term jihad in the context of Kashmir in order to win mass support for themselves. Needless to add, this is a major cause for growing anti-Islamic sentiments among many non-Muslims. The dispute between India and Pakistan over Kashmir has been lingering for more than half a century. A major hurdle in the resolution of this conflict is the self-styled jihadists based in Pakistan, who insist that the conflict over Kashmir is an Islamic jihad and that, therefore, war is the only solution. They claim that participation in this so-called jihad has become a farz-e ayn, a duty binding on all Muslims, and some of them, most prominently the dreaded Lashkar-e Tayyeba, even go so far as to claim that the war in Kashmir is nothing but the ghazwat ul-hind, the 'war against India' which is mentioned in a saying attributed to the Prophet Muhammad. By this they want to suggest that waging war against India is an Islamic duty, something prophesied by the Prophet Muhammad himself. What is the actual meaning and implication of the statement attributed to the Prophet regarding the ghazwat ul-hind, which the Pakistan-based self-styled jihadists regularly refer to, and grossly misinterpret, in order to whip up anti-Indian sentiments and seek what they wrongly claim is Islamic sanction for their deadly terror attacks against India, in Kashmir and beyond? Before I discuss that, I must point out that the statement attributed to the Prophet regarding the ghazwat ul-hind is found in only one of the sihah sitta, the six collections of Hadith reports of the Sunni Muslims—in the collection by al-Nasai. This statement was narrated by Abu Hurairah, a companion of the Prophet. According to him, the Prophet prophesied a battle against India. If he (Abu Hurairah) got the chance to participate in this battle, Abu Hurairah said, he would do so, sacrificing his wealth and life. If he died in this battle, he said, he would be counted among the exalted martyrs. According to another narration, related by the Prophet's freed slave Thoban, the Prophet once declared that there were two groups among the Muslims whom God had saved from the fires of Hell. The first would be a group that invaded India. The other group would be those Muslims who accompanied Jesus (after he returned to the world). A similar narration is contained in the collections of Hadith by Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Baihaqi and Tabrani. Explanation Because this hadith about the ghazwat ul-hind mentions India, and is marshaled by self-styled Pakistan-based jihadists active in Kashmir, it marks the Kashmir conflict out as clearly distinct from other conflicts elsewhere in the world between Muslims and others. These self-styled jihadists regularly invoke this hadith, trapping people in their net by claiming that if they were to die fighting the Indians in Kashmir they would be saved from hell and would earn a place in heaven. This claim, false though it is, is regularly and constantly repeated, as is evident from a host of Pakistani websites and periodicals. Let me quote a revealing instance in this regard. Recently, I came across the August 2003 issue of 'Muhaddith', an Urdu magazine published from Lahore, Pakistan. It contains a 20-page article on the ghazwat ul-hind, written by a certain Dr. Asmatullah, Assistant Professor at the Islamic Research Academy of the International Islamic University, Islamabad. The article represents a pathetic effort to project the ongoing conflict in Kashmir as precisely the same ghazwat ul-hind that the Prophet is said to have predicted. And it is on the basis of this reported hadith of the Prophet that ultra-radical Islamists in Pakistan talk about unleashing a so-called jihad, extending out of Kashmir and to consume the whole of India. This is no longer limited to just fiery rhetoric alone, but, in fact, is also now accompanied by deadly terror attacks in different parts of India, which Pakistan-based radicals wrongly style as a jihad or even as the ghawzat ul-hind reportedly prophesied by the Prophet. It is striking to note in this connection that in the above-mentioned article, the editors of 'Muhadith' disagree with the views of the author, expressing their differences in the form of a footnote. Yet, this counter-view, as expressed by the editors of the magazine, is hardly ever discussed or even referred to in Pakistani so-called jihadist literature, indicating, therefore, that the rhetoric of the self-styled jihadists is based less on proper scholarly analysis of the Islamic textual tradition than on strident, heated emotionalism and a deep-rooted hatred and feeling of revenge. This applies not just in the Pakistani case. Rather, is a phenomenon common to almost all so-called jihadist movements throughout the rest of the world. The Pakistani self-styled jihadists, it would appear, have made the hadith about the ghazwat ul-hind into a plaything in their hands in order to entrap innocent people. It is quite possible that the Pakistani youth who were involved in the recent deadly terrorist attack on Mumbai were fed on this sort of poisonous propaganda and led into believing that they might go straight to heaven if they waged war against India. In India, the banned Students Islamic Movement of India appeared to have backed the same wholly erroneous and unwarranted interpretation of the hadith about the ghazwat ul-hind, following in the footsteps of Pakistani radical groups. Mercifully, as far as I know, no other Indian Muslim group or scholar worthy of mention has adopted the 'Pakistani interpretation' of this particular hadith report. Tragically, the concept of jihad has been subjected to considerable abuse and made to serve extremist ends by self-styled jihadists. This started in the very first century of Islam itself, when intra-Muslim wars were sought to be christened by competing groups as jihads. And because of the distorted understanding of jihad championed by many Muslims themselves, they labeled any and every controversy and conflict with non-Muslims, even if it had nothing at all to do with religion but everything to do with politics, as a jihad, as the case of Kashmir well exemplifies. Another facet of the distorted understanding of jihad by some Muslims are suicide-bombings, in which innocent civilians are killed. Yet another is proxy war by non-state actors, such as armed self-styled jihadist groups, which actually has no legitimacy in Islam at all. Scrutiny Coming back to the question of the hadith about the ghazwat ul-hind, some aspects of the report deserve particular scrutiny. Firstly, as mentioned earlier, this report is mentioned only in the collection of al-Nasai from among the six collections of Hadith which most Sunnis regard, to varying degrees, as canonical. However, considering the merits or rewards of the ghazwat ul-hind that it talks about, it ought, one might think, to have been narrated by many more companions of the Prophet. But that, as it curiously happens, is not the case. Secondly, and this follows from above, it is possible that this hadith report is not genuine and that it might have been manufactured in the period of the Ummayad Caliphs to suit and justify their own political purposes and expansionist deigns. On the other hand, if this hadith report is indeed genuine—which it might well be—in my view, the battle against India that it predicted was fulfilled in the early Islamic period itself, and is not something that will happen in the future. This, in fact, is the opinion of the majority of the ulema, qualified Islamic scholars. And this view accords with reason as well. It is quite likely that the ghazwat ul-hind that this report predicted took the form of the attack by an Arab Muslim force on Thana and Bharuch, in coastal western India, in the 15th year of the Islamic calendar in the reign of the Caliph Umar. Equally possibly, it could have been fulfilled in the form of the missionary efforts of some of the Prophet's companions soon after, in the reign of the Caliphs Uthman and Ali, in Sindh and Gujarat. Some other ulema consider this hadith to have been fulfilled in the form of the attack and occupation of Sindh by Arab Muslims led by Muhammad bin Qasim in the 93rd year of the Islamic calendar, which then facilitated the spread of Islam in the country. This might well be the case, for the hadith report about the ghazwat ul-hind contained in the Masnad of Ahmad ibn Hanbal, a well-known collection of Hadith narratives attributed to the Prophet, mentions that the Muslim army that would attack India would be sent in the direction of Sindh and Hind. Thirdly, this hadith mentions only a single or particular battle (ghazwa), and not a series of continuing battles, unlike what the author of the article in the 'Muhaddith', referred to above, echoing the arguments of Pakistani self-styled jihadists, claims. Fourthly, one must raise the very pertinent question of how it is at possible that, in the face of the numerous attacks on India by Arab and other Muslims over the last one thousand years, the more than six hundred rule of Muslim dynasties that controlled most of India and the rapid spread of Islam in the country in the period when they ruled, any scope could be left to consider India a target of jihad in the future. Furthermore, today India and Pakistan have diplomatic relations and are bound by treaty relations. Hence, the proxy war engaged in by Kashmir by powerful forces in Pakistan in the guise of a so-called jihad is nothing but deceit, which is a complete contravention of, indeed a revolt against, accepted Islamic teachings. Fifthly, it must be remembered that it would have been very easy for Muslim conquerors of India in the past, men like Mahmud of Ghazni, Shihabuddin Ghori, Timur, Nadir Shah and so on, to present the hadith about the ghazwat ul-hind and wield it as a weapon to justify their attacks on the country. The corrupt ulema associated with their courts could well have suggested this to them had they wished. However, no such mention is made about this in history books. In the eighteenth century, the well-known Islamic scholar Shah Waliullah of Delhi invited the Afghan warlord Ahmad Shah Abdali to invade India and dispel the Marathas, which he accepted, but yet Shah Waliullah, too, did not use this hadith as a pretext for this. Indian ulema It is also pertinent to examine how some well-known contemporary Indian ulema look at this hadith report. Maulana Abdul Hamid Numani, a leading figure of the Jamiat ul-Ulema-i Hind, opines that this hadith was fulfilled at the time of the 'Four Righteous Caliphs' of the Sunnis, soon after the demise of the Prophet Muhammad, when several companions of the Prophet came to India, mainly in order to spread Islam. Mufti Sajid Qasmi, who teaches at the Dar ul-Uloom in Deoband, is also of the same opinion, although he believes that it might also refer to the invasion of Sindh by the Arabs under Muhammad bin Qasim in the eighth century. On the other hand, Maulana Mufti Mushtaq Tijarvi of the Jamaat-i Islami Hind believes that it is possible that this hadith report is not genuine at all and that it might have been fabricated at the time of Muhammad bin Qasim's invasion of Sindh in order to justify it. Whatever the case might be, the misuse by radical groups of this hadith report to spearhead war in Kashmir in the name of so-called jihad and to foment conflict between India and Pakistan is tragic, to say the least. It is nothing sort of a crime against God and the Prophet. In their worldviews and in their actions as well, the self-styled jihadist outfits seem to have gone the way of the Khawarij, a group that emerged in the early period of Islam and who were rejected by other Muslims. The Khawarij believed that they alone were Muslims and that all others, including those who called themselves Muslims, were infidels and fit to be killed. With reference to the Khawarij, the Prophet predicted that they would depart from Islam in the same way as an arrow flies out of a bow. About the Khawarij the Caliph Ali mentioned that they take the word of truth and turn it into falsehood (kalimatu haqqin urida beha al-batil). This he said in the context of the Khawarij misinterpreting the Quran and claiming that Ali and his followers were infidels who deserved to be killed. It is imperative, and extremely urgent, for Muslim scholars, particularly the ulema, to take strict notice of, and stridently oppose the radical self-styled jihadists, who are distorting and misunderstandings Islamic teachings, following in the footsteps of the Khawarij of the past, and spreading death and destruction in the name of Islam. Jihad, properly understood, is a struggle to put an end to strife and conflict, not to create or foment it, as is being done today. The general public, particularly Muslims themselves, should be made aware of the dangerous deviation of the self-styled jihadists and the horrendous implications of their acts and views. In this regard, a major responsibility rests with the ulema of India and Pakistan. These days, ulema groups in India are very actively involved in organizing conferences and holding rallies seeking to defend themselves and Islam from the charges terrorism leveled against them. This is a very welcome thing. However, they must also stridently speak out against and clearly and unambiguously expose and denounce the self-styled soldiers of Islam who are promoting terrorism in the name of Islam. At the same time, it is also urgent to promote re-thinking of some medieval notions of jihad, such as that of offensive jihad, which does not actually have any Islamic legitimacy. This is essential for Muslims to live in today's times and to come to terms with democracy and pluralism. Simply verbally defending Muslims and Islam from the charges of terrorism is, clearly, not enough. Nor is it adequate to simply condemn terrorism in very general terms. The truth is, and this cannot be disputed, that today there is also a pressing need to unleash a 'jihad' against the self-styled jihadist outfits themselves. And in this jihad, undoubtedly, the ulema and Muslim intellectuals have a central role to play and a major responsibility to shoulder. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Maulana Waris Mazhari, a graduate of the Dar ul-Uloom at Deoband, is the editor of the Delhi-based 'Tarjuman Dar ul-Uloom', the official organ of the Deoband Graduates' Association. He can be contacted on w.mazhari at gmail.com From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 15:33:46 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 15:33:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Stand up to the mullahs" - Vir Sanghvi In-Reply-To: <2A5B7E43-9878-499C-B040-51F44B631DCC@sarai.net> References: <620676.42571.qm@web51406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <2A5B7E43-9878-499C-B040-51F44B631DCC@sarai.net> Message-ID: Dear all I think one also should make a basic distinction between faith and religion here. This is very important especially in today's times, when a kind of 'religious homogenity' is being constructed across different religions, among people who have lived in diverse regions, practiced different ways of life, belong to different strata of society socially and economically, and also differ in many other ways. Faith is basically complete trust or belief in something, be it religion or something else. A religion is an organized approach to human spirituality which usually encompasses a set of narratives, symbols, beliefs and practices, often with a supernatural or transcendent quality, that give meaning to the practitioner's experiences of life through reference to a higher power or truth.These are definitions and meanings I got from different sources online, which can better explain these words. What they don't specify explicitly, but is understood implicitly, is that faith is quite a personal thing. Religion on the other hand, is a political thing. By political, I mean that more than one individual is involved in the process; in fact, religion is a field where there are hundreds and thousands of people who are involved in debating and discussing about various aspects, customs and beliefs, their validity, their manner of observation and so on. I am somewhat confused by Shuddha jee's views regarding faith, when he says: ' *Every faith has been intolerant, and at the same time the adherents of every faith have been open and understanding and tolerant.*'. The point is that faith is a personal thing, so whether it is tolerant or not is a personal question. And if you mean that religion is intolerant or tolerant, then the point is that every religion has different followers, and how they combine their own faith with the 'true' religion (whichever they feel is true), as well as their personal nature, determines the kind of path they follow. So, if religions like Islam are perceived to be intolerant, it's because of the politics associated with them, whereby a group connecting itself to the religion has propagated it's own path to be the true one, and it's projection by others in the way that even others start taking that to be the truth. After all, it has to be an organized projection of all customs and beliefs mentioned in religious texts, not with the kind of practices typical of local regions, to gain 'legitimacy'. So, for me, faith can be tolerant or intolerant depending upon the nature of the person. Religion can be tolerant or intolerant depending on one's reading of the religious texts, one's own faith and nature, as well as the kind of arguments one gets to hear generally, for propaganda does fullfill it's role to a certain extent. In other words, which side you wish to believe. Regards Rakesh From shuddha at sarai.net Thu Feb 26 15:54:17 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 15:54:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Stand up to the mullahs" - Vir Sanghvi In-Reply-To: References: <620676.42571.qm@web51406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <2A5B7E43-9878-499C-B040-51F44B631DCC@sarai.net> Message-ID: <29831F96-9800-489A-B958-5E9AAF68A035@sarai.net> Dear all, dear Rakesh, I am substantially in agreement with what Rakesh has written in response to my posting, and I think the distinction that he makes between 'faith' and 'religion' is an important and nuanced one. However, in my view, both 'faith' and 'religion' can be tolerant, or not, depending on practice, and the reception of practice, by individuals and communities. The trouble with ascribing an attribute such as openness or tolerance to this or that faith is that the exercise is usually unanchored in time, space or historicity. Whenever, anyone says anything (positive, or negative) about Islam or Hinduism or Christianity, (or any X system of beliefs) my immediate response is to ask, which Islam (or X), who's Islam, and what historical period we are talking about. Islam as practiced in Andalusia or in the Ottoman Empire or in the Deccan or in Faith, even if it is personal, can give rise to personal closure and denial, just as much as it can give rise to openness and acceptance, at a personal level. Religion (which I ultimately take to be an expression of the boundedness of being - religio comes from the latin root for 'binding') can give rise to affirmation and denial, openness and closure in different, though related ways to faith. So while I appreciate Rakesh Iyer's nuanced attempt to separate faith from religion, I still think that the broad argument that I was making holds, in different, and connected ways, for both faith, and religion regards Shuddha On 26-Feb-09, at 3:33 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear all > > I think one also should make a basic distinction between faith and > religion here. This is very important especially in today's times, > when a kind of 'religious homogenity' is being constructed across > different religions, among people who have lived in diverse > regions, practiced different ways of life, belong to different > strata of society socially and economically, and also differ in > many other ways. > > Faith is basically complete trust or belief in something, be it > religion or something else. A religion is an organized approach to > human spirituality which usually encompasses a set of narratives, > symbols, beliefs and practices, often with a supernatural or > transcendent quality, that give meaning to the practitioner's > experiences of life through reference to a higher power or > truth.These are definitions and meanings I got from different > sources online, which can better explain these words. > > What they don't specify explicitly, but is understood implicitly, > is that faith is quite a personal thing. Religion on the other > hand, is a political thing. By political, I mean that more than one > individual is involved in the process; in fact, religion is a field > where there are hundreds and thousands of people who are involved > in debating and discussing about various aspects, customs and > beliefs, their validity, their manner of observation and so on. > > I am somewhat confused by Shuddha jee's views regarding faith, when > he says: ' Every faith has been intolerant, and at the same time > the adherents of every faith have been open and understanding and > tolerant.'. The point is that faith is a personal thing, so whether > it is tolerant or not is a personal question. And if you mean that > religion is intolerant or tolerant, then the point is that every > religion has different followers, and how they combine their own > faith with the 'true' religion (whichever they feel is true), as > well as their personal nature, determines the kind of path they > follow. > > So, if religions like Islam are perceived to be intolerant, it's > because of the politics associated with them, whereby a group > connecting itself to the religion has propagated it's own path to > be the true one, and it's projection by others in the way that even > others start taking that to be the truth. After all, it has to be > an organized projection of all customs and beliefs mentioned in > religious texts, not with the kind of practices typical of local > regions, to gain 'legitimacy'. > > So, for me, faith can be tolerant or intolerant depending upon the > nature of the person. > > Religion can be tolerant or intolerant depending on one's reading > of the religious texts, one's own faith and nature, as well as the > kind of arguments one gets to hear generally, for propaganda does > fullfill it's role to a certain extent. In other words, which side > you wish to believe. > > Regards > > Rakesh > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From nicheant at yahoo.co.uk Thu Feb 26 17:05:40 2009 From: nicheant at yahoo.co.uk (Nishant) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:35:40 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Reader-list] 'The City Imagined', Gautam Bhatia, 'Mint' Message-ID: <220441.24827.qm@web27902.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> THE CITY IMAGINED Gautam Bhatia Of the various disciplines that give scope and structure to the idea of a city— among them architecture, planning, demography and sociology—no one would argue that the central premise is aspirational. People come together to live better lives and find opportunities to improve their condition. Yet, in the absence of a public policy related to this ideal, how can the city create equitable conditions of opportunity related to its growth and development? Campbell Towers, Malibu Gardens So far, every aspect of growth has been related to consumerist ideals. The parcelling of land to private developers has naturally led to discriminatory patterns of development, related solely to middle-class aspirations. “Live a new life at Campbell Towers, just 12km from downtown Pune”, or “Come to Malibu Gardens, Ahmedabad’s new upmarket address”. Air-conditioned glass houses with seductive titles, copied from European models, spring up overnight in the suburbs: Belvedere Glades, Cameron Manor— business ventures for quick, profitable returns. Everyone knows it is more profitable to build for one man at an 18-hole golf course than for 18 men at one handpump. There is money to be made in exclusive locales—clubs, industrial parks, expensive upscale farmhouses and retail businesses. And the builder is the new city planner. Singular need, paper attempts Unfortunately, when foreign ideals and designer townships become realities in the Indian city, few would be interested in cross-examining the contents for ecology or equities in energy, transportation and lifestyle. Yet, if ever there was a need to comprehensively examine the forces of Indian city living, it is now. With growing populations and nagging displacements, a yawning gap between the old settled and the newly arrived, and indeed between liveable and available space, the search for an alternative way of urban living is the single most glaring need for the city. Yet nowhere has there been a serious attempt to define in clear physical terms the kind of setting that would suit the requirements of all sections of urban India. Certainly there have been many attempts on paper. The Third World Metropolis. City in Search of a Future. New Town Design. The Alternative City. All grand ideals that examine statistics and planning patterns, but do little to create a physical structure that can be built, seen and felt as a future model for growth.Despite monumental problems and annual shortfalls, the incomplete approach to planning and design is part of the psychology of a government unable to take bold initiatives. Only when problems manifest themselves in health epidemics, housing shortages or food contamination does the government initiate action. A Rs8,000 house designed by an engineer 20 years ago was seen as a great thrust towards a bold future. That the cement and bamboo structure would be hot and cold in the wrong seasons, had inadequate ventilation and was entirely unsuited to local ideas was overlooked owing to the seductively low cost. The house was a winner solely on the thrift of its construction. Low-cost house or new city? How then do societies with a far lesser need for change and experimentation promote bolder ideas, with more rigorous parameters? The Masdar Initiative, for instance, is a 64.5 million sq. ft sustainable development outside Abu Dhabi which advertises itself as a zero-carbon, zero-waste city. Planned by Norman Foster, its design integrates the traditional principles of a walled city with advanced ideas in harnessing energy and reusing waste. The ambitious project bills itself as the future desert metropolis. Whether it succeeds in its objective is less important than the will that drives people to such a monumental experiment. In a place where an ill-conceived but cheap concrete roof is seen as futuristic, a scale of endeavour such as the Masdar Initiative would seem foolishly ambitious, a piece of science fiction. How many bureaucrats, politicians, government files and Planning Commission meetings would it take to bridge the divide between a cement house and a whole new city? It is a question that sinks quickly into parody. Long road ahead The need for a new direction in India can no longer be part of a government wish list or the old perception that views city problems merely as a matter of cleaning up—razing slums and replacing them with golf courses. Or whitewashing slum walls and asking people to remain indoors. The fear that a new idea may not work and that the responsibility will come to rest uncomfortably on the shoulders of a bureaucrat or a minister keeps the government from supporting any serious alternatives. Is there anyone...? Given the power that builders and developers exercise in the allocation of land and buildings in a city, it is a shame that few among them have taken to experimentation. To be the richest in the world, recognized by Forbes, is enough for the gloating family of Indian business achievers. But with profits in luxury housing dwindling, is there anyone out there—a DLF, Unitech or Raheja— who can summon up enough courage to embark on a different road and direct even a minuscule part of its profits towards the design of a new community? An idea that rejects convention and provides a clear physical representation of a new form of urban living suited to Indian needs—the way people relate to their homes, places of recreation, proximity to markets, desire for leisure, need for security, new types of transportation, and new alternate forms of energy—to produce a real model of a few hundred units among the millions they place in the market every year? In their able and experienced hands, and with inputs on possible alternatives from architects, planners, transport engineers and energy experts, there may yet be hope for an Indian city. http://www.livemint.com/2009/02/25213501/The-city-imagined.html From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 26 17:30:33 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 04:00:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "Stand up to the mullahs" - Vir Sanghvi Message-ID: <985923.59993.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Yousuf   1. ON EXPECTING REACTIONS 'within minutes'   You are a bit confused about what I wrote in which mail. There were two.   I never asked why the SARAI Liberals; Secularists etc are 'selectively silent' on the Vir Sanghvi article I had posted. So, no question of my expecting reactions 'within minutes'.   I did however wonder about there being no reaction (except from Taraprakash) to a 12 day earlier posting (on 12/02/09) "Johann Hari: Why should I respect these oppressive religions? (Muslims protest)"   As it happens to be, Vir Sanghvi's article picks up on the same issue that I had highlighted in my 12 day earlier (on 12/02/09) post.   So, since it was a 12 day earlier post, I had every reason to wonder  ".....why the usual bunch of Liberal/Secular voices on SARAI Reader List selectively (and with obvious bias) practice their Liberalism/Secularism/Expression-Freedomism."   I stand by my judgement "Would it have been any different if in an analogous situation it had be "Hindus" protesting instead of "Muslims"? Undoubtedly Yes."   2. ON SOME OF YOUR OTHER COMMENTS   - I agree with you that the sensitivities of "The Liberals" should also be considered. I believe that they should be as much respected (or disrespected) as the respect (or disrespect) accorded to the sensitivities of "religious people" (as exampled by you).     It is not a question of only 'respecting sensitivities' but also 'disrespecting sensitivities'. Each organised society has to choose for itself the extent of and norms for both "respect" and "disrespect" of sensitivities. There cannot be any Universal Standards for this because there is no universality in the make-up of societies. Each one has it's own specifics.      The extremism in Liberalism which might desire a 'free for all' disrespecting will be destructive for organised society. It will be a 'jungle Raj' as it will also be if there is no organised society. There is no absolutism in any Freedom. All Freedoms are conditional.     Similarly, selectivity in 'disrespecting' some of choice and demanding 'respect' for others of choice is nothing but hypocrisy.It is pseudo-Liberal or pseudo-Conservative.     In the above if you replace "liberal" by "secular", you have an analogous paradigm for Secular.     The problem with most of those in India who profess to inhabit the Liberal and Secular space and champion themselves or are championed as being Liberal and Secular, is the hypocrisy of the "selectivity" I mentioned above. We have many such clones on the SARAI Reader List.     Until I became privy to writings on SARAI Reader List, I had never properly understood the dimensions of the much used "Pseudo-Secular" term.     What astounds me is the arrogance and shamelessness of these pseudo-Secularists and pseudo-Liberalists. That is their business but they are a curse for India. If there is the spark of conflict in a 'situation' almost invariably these pseudo-Secularists and pseudo-Liberalists seems to ensure that the spark becomes a roaring conflagration.     Consequently, this kind of so called "Liberals" are the last people I would trust to bring about rapproachment bertween conflicting positions or to dissuade people from "extremist" ideologies.     These pseudo-Liberals and pseudo-Seculars are not the "Liberals" that you speak of who "know and appreciate history and society better". If they did then such an appreciation would reflect itself in measured articulation that shows understanding even if it comes from a position of disagreement.   - You have made a specific mention of Islam  and wondered " why do we have to always prove in the end that Islam is really a religion of peace"         You (We) have no choice in that until Islam is propagated and practiced as a religion of peace without a substantial number of Muslims preaching and practicing violence in it's name.      There have been good starts (in India) in the All India Anti-Terrorism Conference organised by the Islamic Madrassa Association (Dar-Ul-Uloom, Deobandh) in Feb 2008 and the Anti-Terrorism Conference of the Jamiat Ulema-e-Hind in Nov 2008. But not good enough. Both had declarations with a lot of qualifications and conditionalities. Some that made a mockery of the intended spirit. That is politics and not a desire to reform.      The condemnation has to be as frequent, as voluble, as brazen, as fearless as many Hindus saying "we do not accept the nonsense about caste distinction in the Manu Smriti"      The problem for Muslims is more deep rooted. I do not consider those who practice violence in the name of Islam as a bunch of crazies. That is what they have been taught from childhood with quotations from the Quran and Hadeeth. That is how deeprooted the problem is. What are you going to do? Expunge passages from the Quran?      Hadeeth can easily be dismissed if preachers are unified in doing so and in not quoting them. (It will be the toughest for Shias since the Shia version of Mohammed's Last Sermon has 'Jihad" as one of the "Pillars of Islam")      The Quran is a different matter altogether especially since it is supposed to be the Instruction Manual for each Individual. But since it does not 'descend' on the individual and has to be taught, it is in the teaching that proper perspectives can be provided.  It would require for the teachers to first understand themselves that specific passages have specific contexts and are not meant as advisories for eternally afterwards. Start today and it would take a few generations of such modified teaching and preaching of the Quran and practice thereof (and dismissing of contradicting Hadeeth) before Muslims could claim that Islam is a religion of peace.      Let me give an analogy. I could claim and do claim that Dharma (known as Hinduism) has the concept of the Divine as a Consciousness that encompasses all that exists (animate or inanimate), all that existed,all that will exist, time past, present, future, the known and the unknown all bound together. That entities like Ram and Krishna are mere mortals who have been deified. That Bramha, Vishnu, Mahesh are mere concepts. That you Yousuf and I are equally a part of the Divine. I could and do claim that. But, Hinduism will be judged and seen as Idol Worship with a whole stable of Gods because that is how Hindus preach and practice it.   - How tough it is from Muslims to redefine Islam can be seen in your words " Islam is really not against the pictures of the Prophet"     Islam is against Pictures. Period. The Taliban are not heretics. Mohammed is quoted in Hadeeth as saying that Gabriel told him that the Angels do not visit houses that have images of life forms (and have dogs) in them. What do the Muslims do now? Where is the courage to dismiss such Hadeeth or find and preach figuratively/metaphorically alternate meanings? There are scores and scores of such retrograde Hadeeth.      At the same time there are some glorious Hadeeth. My favourite is of Mohammed telling the story of one who was admonished for destroying a colony of ants instead of just the one specific ant which had bit him. Or about the Jewish prostitute who had a place in paradise for quenching the thirst of a dog.    (My turn to say) I do not know if I made any sense.   Kshmendra     --- On Wed, 2/25/09, Yousuf wrote: From: Yousuf Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Stand up to the mullahs" - Vir Sanghvi To: "sarai list" , kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Date: Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 8:20 PM Dear Kshmendra Thanks a lot for forwarding the article by Vir Sanghvi. Since the Sarai list has been behaving strangely, I got your message only today (and from the sarai archives I also found out that within minutes after posting your message you have started asking why the Sarai liberals and secularists etc. are selectively silent on this) Please allow everyone to see the mail. I agree with Vir Sanghvi that the "liberal people" have given in too much to the sensitivities of the "religious people". We have to always remain extra cautious about not hurting the sensibilities of the fundamentalists. And why can't they be sensitive about the hurt of the liberals. And why do we have to always prove in the end that Islam is really a religion of peace and so on. I think we have discussed this issue many times on this list as well as other forums, with examples such as MF Hussain and the Prophet cartoons. One really doesn't know what could be done about it except to condemn the people who get provoked at the slightest pretext. But I would like to go back to some of the interesting debates we had last year after one of Hussain's art exhibits was attacked in Delhi. Please see this particular one: http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2008-August/014282.html The same month also has some interesting posts on Hussain by Inder and others. I think in most cases, as we have seen in the past, the provocation doesn't really arise from the artwork or a write-up itself (or an individual reading of it). A problem starts mostly when the subject matter is exploited for political gains by a religious/political leaders. But Vir's distinction that so and so community is prone to more hurt than the other community is debatable, since we have seen all kinds of people get provoked on small matters (it doesn't always have to be art or literature). Vir says that if Muslims are banned from making the picture of the prophet, let them not do it. But why should the non-Muslims refrain from it. What I would like to add here is that Islam is really not against the pictures of the Prophet - his images have been made in the Islamic world itself throughout the history (besides the production of plenty of other liberal forms of arts and literature which is not imaginable in today's Islamic world). And so is the case with the history of liberal arts in all religions, communities and countries. But this fact (about our liberal history) is probably known and appreciated more by today's liberals than by the ultra-sensitive mullahs. So, my question is: should the liberals and fundamentalists continue to remain on an offensive by hurting each other, or should the liberals (who probably know and appreciate history and society better) play a proactive role in trying to inform the extremists about the more liberal history we had. I don't know if I am making sense here, but this idea of "educating" people about the sensitivities of the liberals (when I proposed it) was criticized a lot by people on this list. Yousuf --- On Tue, 2/24/09, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > From: Kshmendra Kaul > Subject: [Reader-list] "Stand up to the mullahs" - Vir Sanghvi > To: "sarai list" > Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 3:02 PM > Vir Sanghvi seems to have been provoked into writing this > piece by the protest by Muslims against The Statesman which > had reproduced an article by Johann Hari "Why should I > respect these oppressive religions?" first published in > The Independent (UK). >   > EXTRACTS: >   > - It is now clear that the liberal society has been > suckered into relaxing its standards for free speech by > militant Islamists. >   > - But so what if Muslims cannot visually represent their > Prophet? Why should non-Muslims be bound by their religious > edicts? Why should non-believing Muslims be forced by > liberal society to obey the restrictions of their religion? >   > - Believers should follow what the Holy Book and the > mullahs say. But why should the rest of us? Why should we > abandon our right to free expression? >   > - Nobody I know has ever explained why the double standards > are justified. >   > - The real reason we give in to Islamic fanatics is the > desire for a peaceful life or, to put it another way, > cowardice. >   > - Every one of their objections is always framed in terms > of violence. Ban The Satanic Verses or we will kill Salman > Rushdie. Apologise for the Danish cartoons or we will offer > a reward for the head of the cartoonist. Arrest the editor > of the Statesman or we will shut Calcutta down by rioting in > the streets. >   > - Faced with these threats, we abandon our principles and > say things like, “Come on, is a single article worth the > death of so many people?” or “Let’s just ban the book, > otherwise these guys will keep rioting.” >   > - The fanatics know this. They have identified the > cowardice at the heart of our liberalism. So every demand is > a) pitched in terms of protecting the religious sentiments > of the Muslim community or b) facing murder, mayhem and > more. >   > - Almost every single time, we cave in. Either we say that > Islam is a peaceful religion. > Or we get death threats. >   > -  Isn’t it time to finally stand up to these thugs and > blackmailers? It is up to the Muslim community to rein in > its fanatics and some moderates are indeed trying to do > this. >   > - But as far as secular society is concerned, our position > should be clear. We believe in free speech as guaranteed by > our Constitution, not as defined by the mullahs. >   > Kshmendra >   >   > "Stand up to the mullahs" > Vir Sanghvi, Hindustan Times > February 21, 2009 >   > If you have missed the controversy that led to the arrest > of the editor of The Statesman in Calcutta for offending > religious sentiments — which you might have, because the > national media downplayed the issue — then here’s what > it is about. >   > The Statesman reproduced an article by Johann Hari, the > young liberal British commentator, from The Independent. > Hari’s politics are clear: he stands up for secularism > (for which he has won awards), tolerance (he has defended > Islam against such critics as Mark Steyn) and environmental > concerns. >   > The column in question was about attempts by the > governments of some Islamic states to alter the UN’s > commitment to free speech. These governments argue that free > speech must be restricted on grounds of offence to religion > and that discussions of certain issues relating to the > rights of women must be curtailed because they could be > anti-Islamic. >   > Hari makes the obvious objections to all of this and then > says that religion can often be oppressive. So, why should > people be stopped from speaking out against it? He quotes > examples of regressive practices from all religions and says > that just because these occur in accounts of the lives of > gods, messiahs or prophets, that does not make them above > criticism. >   > Who could possibly object to that? >   > Well, a small section of politically-motivated Islamic > fanatics in Calcutta, that’s who. >   > As the people who rioted did not seem like typical > Statesman readers (they were not genteel Bengalis, aged 60 > and above), it is a fair assumption that some cynical leader > of an extreme faction of the Muslim community told his > followers about the ‘grave insult to Islam” and sent > them off to riot. >   > The CPI(M) government then arrested The Statesman’s > editor and publisher. But the arrest — though clearly > unjustified — seems to have been largely symbolic. They > were quickly released and the mobs, satisfied that “action > had been taken”, melted away. >   > Several points need to be made about the incident. >   > First: The article itself. There is not one line in > Hari’s piece that I would disagree with. If religions > deserve respect, then so does atheism. Followers of > religions have every right to their views and practices. But > so do atheists have the right to criticise religion. Nothing > in this world is above criticism. >   > Two: The rioters said they were offended by a passage in > the article where Hari referred to the Prophet’s marriage > to a much younger woman and his directive to burn Jewish > villages. (In all fairness, he was as critical of other > religions and of the Israeli assault on the West Bank.) >   > The rioters say that nobody can criticise any aspect of the > Prophet’s life. >   > Why? >   > There’s no shortage of books and articles criticising > Jesus, suggesting that he might have been secretly married > (as in The DaVinci Code), arguing that the resurrection was > a hoax or that Mary was never a virgin. >   > Similarly, would mainstream Hindus be offended if somebody > wrote that Hindu mythology features practices that we would > find abhorrent today: one wife for five husbands as in the > Mahabharat, the compulsive philandering of Krishna or the > appalling mistreatment of Sita (the agni pariksha etc)? >   > Some Hindu extremists may protest but I doubt if they would > get very far with their objections. The community, as a > whole, would shrug its shoulders and many Hindus will agree > with the critics. >   > > > And yet, it is an article of faith with Muslims — even > moderate ones — that the Prophet’s life is beyond > reproach. >   > Does this make any sense? >   > Three: It is now clear that the liberal society has been > suckered into relaxing its standards for free speech by > militant Islamists. >   > Let’s take the most obvious example. Every liberal I know > is outraged by the attacks on MF Husain. Why shouldn’t he > paint nude Saraswatis? That’s his right. If people are > offended by the paintings, they shouldn’t see them. >   > So far, so good. But now imagine that Husain had painted an > extremely reverential portrait of the Prophet. (Never mind > cartoons, nude pictures etc.) >   > There would have been riots. And even secular liberals > would not have supported him. >   > We would have said: Islam prohibits any visual > representation of the Prophet so Husain has committed a > great crime. >   > But so what if Muslims cannot visually represent their > Prophet? Why should non-Muslims be bound by their religious > edicts? Why should non-believing Muslims be forced by > liberal society to obey the restrictions of their religion? >   > Believers should follow what the Holy Book and the mullahs > say. But why should the rest of us? Why should we abandon > our right to free expression? >   > Nobody I know has ever explained why the double standards > are justified. >   > Four: The reason we are suckered into accepting these > double standards is because Muslim politicians play good > cop-bad cop. >   > Look, they say, we are all for freedom of speech. But if > you say anything that the fanatics object to, then they will > take to the streets, burn property and hurt innocent people. > We will do our best to pacify our community, but you must > remove any provocation that will cause the hardliners to > revolt. >   > Turn this around. How would Muslims have reacted if Hindu > moderates had said to them: Look, we think this whole Ram > Janmbhoomi thing is nonsense. But the BJP will gain support > on this platform. So why don’t you agree to move the Babri > Masjid? It’s not even a functioning mosque. That way, we > remove the provocation and rid the hardliners of their issue > and ensure communal harmony. >   > Well, Hindu moderates did say this. And we know how > moderate Muslim politicians reacted. >   > Five: The real reason we give in to Islamic fanatics is the > desire for a peaceful life or, to put it another way, > cowardice. >   > Every one of their objections is always framed in terms of > violence. Ban The Satanic Verses or we will kill Salman > Rushdie. Apologise for the Danish cartoons or we will offer > a reward for the head of the cartoonist. Arrest the editor > of the Statesman or we will shut Calcutta down by rioting in > the streets. >   > Faced with these threats, we abandon our principles and say > things like, “Come on, is a single article worth the death > of so many people?” or “Let’s just ban the book, > otherwise these guys will keep rioting.” >   > The fanatics know this. They have identified the cowardice > at the heart of our liberalism. So every demand is a) > pitched in terms of protecting the religious sentiments of > the Muslim community or b) facing murder, mayhem and more. >   > Almost every single time, we cave in. >   > Either we say that Islam is a peaceful religion. >   > Or we get death threats. >   > And finally: Isn’t it time to finally stand up to these > thugs and blackmailers? It is up to the Muslim community to > rein in its fanatics and some moderates are indeed trying to > do this. >   > But as far as secular society is concerned, our position > should be clear. We believe in free speech as guaranteed by > our Constitution, not as defined by the mullahs. >   > Anything less would be a betrayal of the liberal, secular > values we hold dear. >   > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/Print.aspx?Id=630b8c69-4672-4e12-ac2a-a9073f5165d4 >   > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePage&id=630b8c69-4672-4e12-ac2a-a9073f5165d4&MatchID1=4932&TeamID1=7&TeamID2=8&MatchType1=1&SeriesID1=1247&PrimaryID=4932&Headline=Stand+up+to+the+mullahs >   >   >   > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject > header. > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 26 18:56:37 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 05:26:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "Stand up to the mullahs" - Vir Sanghvi In-Reply-To: <2A5B7E43-9878-499C-B040-51F44B631DCC@sarai.net> Message-ID: <213780.9317.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Shuddha   I have often expressed my admiration for you. That includes (in some measure) your meticulously researched references. Sadly, not this time. My admiration though does not lessen.    You have picked the words 'Sarai liberals and secularists' from Yousuf's mail. I never wrote them.   My words were:   """" Wonder why the usual bunch of Liberal/Secular voices on SARAI Reader List selectively (and with obvious bias) practice their Liberalism/Secularism/Expression-Freedomism.""""""   I was clearly talking about the (SARAI) Reader List and not SARAI.   Subsequent to this mis-recognition by you, your follow-up comments on SARAI and "SARAI positions" and admonishments directed at me, become academic.   As far as the inmates of the SARAI Reader List are concerned, my wonderment is undiminished about the "usual bunch of Liberal/Secular voices" who "selectively (and with obvious bias) practice their Liberalism/Secularism/Expression-Freedomism"   Also, I stand by my judgment "Would it have been any different if in an analogous situation it had be "Hindus" protesting instead of "Muslims"? Undoubtedly Yes."   Incidentally, I found very interesting two positions articulated by you:   1. "I am not committed to any state form"       That is a dismissal of organised societies as they exist today. But only a dismissal. It would be interesting to know what is the alternate 'system' or 'non-system' you propose. Otherwise the alternate that suggests itself is one of a "Jungle Raj"        From my point of view, without the State there is no provisioning possible of a Regulatory Environment. Without a Regulatory Environment there can be no protection for the Freedoms one can avail of. Without Freedoms, humans are just caged animals. But, Freedoms cannot be absolute and unbridled. The balancing off between the Freedoms of each individual so that each one can avail of them in equal measure, can only be ensured by the Regulated Environment through governance. For governance you need specified territorial domain. A Territorial Domain is the State.    2. "I  support the right to be heretical, blasphemous, and subversive in any context with reference to anything that is held sacred or sacrosanct by anybody, including myself."       The stated by you rights (excluding 'subversive') can certainly function in a society that has evolved to such levels of tolerance. Their availability cannot be imposed on people unless the people are comfortable in accepting such rights as being available to another person.       The right to be "subversive" will never be made available by the State. It is self-destructive.   There is a contradiction in these two positions of yours.   You are not committed to the State and yet you want rights. Only the State can make available your rights and regulate their protection. Without the State there will be anarchy.   Each individual allowed to decide his/her own set of 'Rights' may, in fact will, lead to conflict between individuals. That is "Jungle Raj".   I am sure you have a different and non-foreboding scenario in mind.       Take care     Kshmendra --- On Thu, 2/26/09, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Stand up to the mullahs" - Vir Sanghvi To: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Cc: "sarai list" , kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Date: Thursday, February 26, 2009, 2:43 PM Dear Kshmendra,  I am  surprised at your insinuation that there is a selectivity on the part of what you call 'Sarai liberals and secularists' to respond to matters that have to do with one confession of faith as opposed to another. First of all, who is a 'Sarai liberal or secularist'? Can you identify one, because I can't. Sarai is not a party with an official position. It does not have cadre who stick to one position, or even a cluster of positions.  As individuals we all (everyone on the list, including you) may have different postions on different matters, but none of these are 'Sarai' positions.  I do not make it my business to respond to each and every posting that appears on the Sarai Reader List. I am sure you do not either. If we were all constantly responding to every posting that occurred on the list then we would have very little time to do anything else. If I have once made a position clear, I do not see it necessary to repeat myself ad nauseam. I have made my position against Muslim fundamentalism, hindu fundamentalism, torture, the death penalty and forms of military occupation (whererever they may occur) abundantly clear on more than one occasion on this list, I do not therefore find it necessary to respond repetitively on the same set of issues.  I would probably count as one of those who is often pilloried on this list as a 'liberal secularist' (though both presume a commitment to the project of the state, in its specifically liberal or secularist avatars, which I do not share, simply because I am not committed to any state form).  That being said, I might remind you that there have been several instances where I (and others) have been sharply critical of the positions and politics of Islamic fundamentalists, exactly as we have been sharply critical of anyone or any tendency (be they of the right, left or centre) which has an authoritarian and repressive agenda.  I personally recall having made postings and responses on the banning of Taslima Nasrin that were extremely critical of the Islamic Fundamentalist position on her freedom of speech and exprssion. I have said before and say so again, I support the right of any individual to express any statement through word, speech or image that is or can be read or understood as being offensive to Islam or somebody's interpretation of Islamic precepts and doctrines, precisely because I support the same right when it pertains to any religion, ideology or position, be it Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism or any other doctrine. I support the right of people to make and publish what might be considered (by themselves, or by others) offensive cartoons or ther representations of any religious figure (without exception).  This has nothing to do with my personal taste or agreement with what is made or deemed offensive. I especially support the right of the freedom of speech and expression of those I disagree with (provided it is not defamation or libel), because it is actually meaningless to only root for the freedom of those who agree with your own views. I  support the right to be heretical, blasphemous, and subversive in any context with reference to anything that is held sacred or sacrosant by anybody, including myself.  So please refrain from making these blanket generalizations, a) about 'Sarai liberals or secularists'  (an irrelevant category) or b) about what people might or might not have said in the past, without an adequate sense of what the archives of the list actually hold as a record of opinions and expressions by list members,  My understanding of religious doctrines and practices does however demonstrate to me that no religion or ideology can claim (or have claimed on its behalf) a monopoly on repressiveness or on liberty. Every faith has been intolerant, and at the same time the adherents of every faith have been open and understanding and tolerant. No particular faith has been more intolerant or repressive in its history than any other. While I remain committed to being sharply critical of intolerance within Islam, I am equally critical of any effort to represent Islam and Islamicate cultures as being 'more' repressive and authoritarian than others, this tendency betrays a shallow understanding of the well established traditions of tolerance and liberality within Islamicate cultures (which compete with authoritarianism and repression within Islam/Islamicate culture), and the the authoritarian tendencies in other traditions, which are usually neglected by those who seek to exclusively focus on the career of repression within Islam and Islamicate cultures.  I do not think this blame game is productive.  regards Shuddha regards Shuddha On 25-Feb-09, at 8:20 PM, Yousuf wrote: Dear Kshmendra Thanks a lot for forwarding the article by Vir Sanghvi. Since the Sarai list has been behaving strangely, I got your message only today (and from the sarai archives I also found out that within minutes after posting your message you have started asking why the Sarai liberals and secularists etc. are selectively silent on this) Please allow everyone to see the mail. I agree with Vir Sanghvi that the "liberal people" have given in too much to the sensitivities of the "religious people". We have to always remain extra cautious about not hurting the sensibilities of the fundamentalists. And why can't they be sensitive about the hurt of the liberals. And why do we have to always prove in the end that Islam is really a religion of peace and so on. I think we have discussed this issue many times on this list as well as other forums, with examples such as MF Hussain and the Prophet cartoons. One really doesn't know what could be done about it except to condemn the people who get provoked at the slightest pretext. But I would like to go back to some of the interesting debates we had last year after one of Hussain's art exhibits was attacked in Delhi. Please see this particular one: http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2008-August/014282.html The same month also has some interesting posts on Hussain by Inder and others. I think in most cases, as we have seen in the past, the provocation doesn't really arise from the artwork or a write-up itself (or an individual reading of it). A problem starts mostly when the subject matter is exploited for political gains by a religious/political leaders. But Vir's distinction that so and so community is prone to more hurt than the other community is debatable, since we have seen all kinds of people get provoked on small matters (it doesn't always have to be art or literature).  Vir says that if Muslims are banned from making the picture of the prophet, let them not do it. But why should the non-Muslims refrain from it. What I would like to add here is that Islam is really not against the pictures of the Prophet - his images have been made in the Islamic world itself throughout the history (besides the production of plenty of other liberal forms of arts and literature which is not imaginable in today's Islamic world). And so is the case with the history of liberal arts in all religions, communities and countries. But this fact (about our liberal history) is probably known and appreciated more by today's liberals than by the ultra-sensitive mullahs. So, my question is: should the liberals and fundamentalists continue to remain on an offensive by hurting each other, or should the liberals (who probably know and appreciate history and society better) play a proactive role in trying to inform the extremists about the more liberal  history we had.    I don't know if I am making sense here, but this idea of "educating" people about the sensitivities of the liberals (when I proposed it) was criticized a lot by people on this list. Yousuf  --- On Tue, 2/24/09, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: From: Kshmendra Kaul Subject: [Reader-list] "Stand up to the mullahs" - Vir Sanghvi To: "sarai list" Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 3:02 PM Vir Sanghvi seems to have been provoked into writing this piece by the protest by Muslims against The Statesman which had reproduced an article by Johann Hari "Why should I respect these oppressive religions?" first published in The Independent (UK).   EXTRACTS:   - It is now clear that the liberal society has been suckered into relaxing its standards for free speech by militant Islamists.    - But so what if Muslims cannot visually represent their Prophet? Why should non-Muslims be bound by their religious edicts? Why should non-believing Muslims be forced by liberal society to obey the restrictions of their religion?   - Believers should follow what the Holy Book and the mullahs say. But why should the rest of us? Why should we abandon our right to free expression?   - Nobody I know has ever explained why the double standards are justified.    - The real reason we give in to Islamic fanatics is the desire for a peaceful life or, to put it another way, cowardice.    - Every one of their objections is always framed in terms of violence. Ban The Satanic Verses or we will kill Salman Rushdie. Apologise for the Danish cartoons or we will offer a reward for the head of the cartoonist. Arrest the editor of the Statesman or we will shut Calcutta down by rioting in the streets.    - Faced with these threats, we abandon our principles and say things like, “Come on, is a single article worth the death of so many people?” or “Let’s just ban the book, otherwise these guys will keep rioting.”   - The fanatics know this. They have identified the cowardice at the heart of our liberalism. So every demand is a) pitched in terms of protecting the religious sentiments of the Muslim community or b) facing murder, mayhem and more.    - Almost every single time, we cave in. Either we say that Islam is a peaceful religion. Or we get death threats.   -  Isn’t it time to finally stand up to these thugs and blackmailers? It is up to the Muslim community to rein in its fanatics and some moderates are indeed trying to do this.   - But as far as secular society is concerned, our position should be clear. We believe in free speech as guaranteed by our Constitution, not as defined by the mullahs.   Kshmendra     "Stand up to the mullahs" Vir Sanghvi, Hindustan Times February 21, 2009   If you have missed the controversy that led to the arrest of the editor of The Statesman in Calcutta for offending religious sentiments — which you might have, because the national media downplayed the issue — then here’s what it is about.    The Statesman reproduced an article by Johann Hari, the young liberal British commentator, from The Independent. Hari’s politics are clear: he stands up for secularism (for which he has won awards), tolerance (he has defended Islam against such critics as Mark Steyn) and environmental concerns.    The column in question was about attempts by the governments of some Islamic states to alter the UN’s commitment to free speech. These governments argue that free speech must be restricted on grounds of offence to religion and that discussions of certain issues relating to the rights of women must be curtailed because they could be anti-Islamic.    Hari makes the obvious objections to all of this and then says that religion can often be oppressive. So, why should people be stopped from speaking out against it? He quotes examples of regressive practices from all religions and says that just because these occur in accounts of the lives of gods, messiahs or prophets, that does not make them above criticism.    Who could possibly object to that?   Well, a small section of politically-motivated Islamic fanatics in Calcutta, that’s who.   As the people who rioted did not seem like typical Statesman readers (they were not genteel Bengalis, aged 60 and above), it is a fair assumption that some cynical leader of an extreme faction of the Muslim community told his followers about the ‘grave insult to Islam” and sent them off to riot.    The CPI(M) government then arrested The Statesman’s editor and publisher. But the arrest — though clearly unjustified — seems to have been largely symbolic. They were quickly released and the mobs, satisfied that “action had been taken”, melted away.    Several points need to be made about the incident.    First: The article itself. There is not one line in Hari’s piece that I would disagree with. If religions deserve respect, then so does atheism. Followers of religions have every right to their views and practices. But so do atheists have the right to criticise religion. Nothing in this world is above criticism.    Two: The rioters said they were offended by a passage in the article where Hari referred to the Prophet’s marriage to a much younger woman and his directive to burn Jewish villages. (In all fairness, he was as critical of other religions and of the Israeli assault on the West Bank.)    The rioters say that nobody can criticise any aspect of the Prophet’s life.    Why?   There’s no shortage of books and articles criticising Jesus, suggesting that he might have been secretly married (as in The DaVinci Code), arguing that the resurrection was a hoax or that Mary was never a virgin.    Similarly, would mainstream Hindus be offended if somebody wrote that Hindu mythology features practices that we would find abhorrent today: one wife for five husbands as in the Mahabharat, the compulsive philandering of Krishna or the appalling mistreatment of Sita (the agni pariksha etc)?    Some Hindu extremists may protest but I doubt if they would get very far with their objections. The community, as a whole, would shrug its shoulders and many Hindus will agree with the critics.    And yet, it is an article of faith with Muslims — even moderate ones — that the Prophet’s life is beyond reproach.    Does this make any sense?   Three: It is now clear that the liberal society has been suckered into relaxing its standards for free speech by militant Islamists.    Let’s take the most obvious example. Every liberal I know is outraged by the attacks on MF Husain. Why shouldn’t he paint nude Saraswatis? That’s his right. If people are offended by the paintings, they shouldn’t see them.    So far, so good. But now imagine that Husain had painted an extremely reverential portrait of the Prophet. (Never mind cartoons, nude pictures etc.)    There would have been riots. And even secular liberals would not have supported him.    We would have said: Islam prohibits any visual representation of the Prophet so Husain has committed a great crime.    But so what if Muslims cannot visually represent their Prophet? Why should non-Muslims be bound by their religious edicts? Why should non-believing Muslims be forced by liberal society to obey the restrictions of their religion?   Believers should follow what the Holy Book and the mullahs say. But why should the rest of us? Why should we abandon our right to free expression?   Nobody I know has ever explained why the double standards are justified.    Four: The reason we are suckered into accepting these double standards is because Muslim politicians play good cop-bad cop.    Look, they say, we are all for freedom of speech. But if you say anything that the fanatics object to, then they will take to the streets, burn property and hurt innocent people. We will do our best to pacify our community, but you must remove any provocation that will cause the hardliners to revolt.    Turn this around. How would Muslims have reacted if Hindu moderates had said to them: Look, we think this whole Ram Janmbhoomi thing is nonsense. But the BJP will gain support on this platform. So why don’t you agree to move the Babri Masjid? It’s not even a functioning mosque. That way, we remove the provocation and rid the hardliners of their issue and ensure communal harmony.    Well, Hindu moderates did say this. And we know how moderate Muslim politicians reacted.    Five: The real reason we give in to Islamic fanatics is the desire for a peaceful life or, to put it another way, cowardice.    Every one of their objections is always framed in terms of violence. Ban The Satanic Verses or we will kill Salman Rushdie. Apologise for the Danish cartoons or we will offer a reward for the head of the cartoonist. Arrest the editor of the Statesman or we will shut Calcutta down by rioting in the streets.    Faced with these threats, we abandon our principles and say things like, “Come on, is a single article worth the death of so many people?” or “Let’s just ban the book, otherwise these guys will keep rioting.”   The fanatics know this. They have identified the cowardice at the heart of our liberalism. So every demand is a) pitched in terms of protecting the religious sentiments of the Muslim community or b) facing murder, mayhem and more.    Almost every single time, we cave in.    Either we say that Islam is a peaceful religion.   Or we get death threats.    And finally: Isn’t it time to finally stand up to these thugs and blackmailers? It is up to the Muslim community to rein in its fanatics and some moderates are indeed trying to do this.    But as far as secular society is concerned, our position should be clear. We believe in free speech as guaranteed by our Constitution, not as defined by the mullahs.    Anything less would be a betrayal of the liberal, secular values we hold dear.   http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/Print.aspx?Id=630b8c69-4672-4e12-ac2a-a9073f5165d4   http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePage&id=630b8c69-4672-4e12-ac2a-a9073f5165d4&MatchID1=4932&TeamID1=7&TeamID2=8&MatchType1=1&SeriesID1=1247&PrimaryID=4932&Headline=Stand+up+to+the+mullahs       _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list  List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list  List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 26 19:03:40 2009 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 05:33:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "Stand up to the mullahs" - Vir Sanghvi In-Reply-To: <985923.59993.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <135342.41569.qm@web51412.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Kshmendra Since there is a reference to Johann Hari in both your mails, I thought that these are related. I would respond to only two of your points. Since you have such choicest words and prejudice for the so-called pseudo-secularists and Sarai-clones, I would be happy if you could specify a few names who you give these terms to. Its very important that we actually know who exactly you are talking about. Of all you know, I may be in the list. Since you talk about how these clones have "ensured that the spark becomes a roaring conflagration". It would be really great if you could specify an example of when and how they did this. Secondly, your comment that "Islam is against images. Period" is not true. Its all a matter of interpretation. The Quran nowhere mentions that drawing pictures is banned. A few hadith are there but they have been interpreted in various ways, including to justify the making of pictures. This topic has been explored on this list a lot (including posts by Shuddha). There are both examples of very liberal arts produced by Muslims as well as the abhorrence of art by Muslims. So, there can be no "Period" at the end of this sentence. Thanks for your other reflections about the Qura'n and Hadith, which I wouldn't comment on right now due to my lack of knowledge. But I would be curious to get your reply to my first point. Yousuf --- On Thu, 2/26/09, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > From: Kshmendra Kaul > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Stand up to the mullahs" - Vir Sanghvi > To: "sarai list" , ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > Date: Thursday, February 26, 2009, 5:30 PM > Dear Yousuf >   > 1. ON EXPECTING REACTIONS 'within minutes' >   > You are a bit confused about what I wrote in which mail. > There were two. >   > I never asked why the SARAI Liberals; Secularists etc are > 'selectively silent' on the Vir Sanghvi article I > had posted. So, no question of my expecting reactions > 'within minutes'. >   > I did however wonder about there being no reaction (except > from Taraprakash) to a 12 day earlier posting (on 12/02/09) > "Johann Hari: Why should I respect these oppressive > religions? (Muslims protest)" >   > As it happens to be, Vir Sanghvi's article picks up on > the same issue that I had highlighted in my 12 day earlier > (on 12/02/09) post. >   > So, since it was a 12 day earlier post, I had every reason > to wonder  ".....why the usual bunch of > Liberal/Secular voices on SARAI Reader List selectively > (and with obvious bias) practice their > Liberalism/Secularism/Expression-Freedomism." >   > I stand by my judgement "Would it have been any > different if in an analogous situation it had be > "Hindus" protesting instead of > "Muslims"? Undoubtedly Yes." >   > 2. ON SOME OF YOUR OTHER COMMENTS >   > - I agree with you that the sensitivities of "The > Liberals" should also be considered. I believe that > they should be as much respected (or disrespected) as the > respect (or disrespect) accorded to the sensitivities of > "religious people" (as exampled by you). >   >   It is not a question of only 'respecting > sensitivities' but also 'disrespecting > sensitivities'. Each organised society has to choose for > itself the extent of and norms for both "respect" > and "disrespect" of sensitivities. There cannot be > any Universal Standards for this because there is no > universality in the make-up of societies. Each one has > it's own specifics.  >   >   The extremism in Liberalism which might desire a > 'free for all' disrespecting will be destructive for > organised society. It will be a 'jungle Raj' as it > will also be if there is no organised society. There is no > absolutism in any Freedom. All Freedoms are conditional. >   >   Similarly, selectivity in 'disrespecting' some > of choice and demanding 'respect' for others of > choice is nothing but hypocrisy.It is pseudo-Liberal or > pseudo-Conservative. >   >   In the above if you replace "liberal" by > "secular", you have an analogous paradigm for > Secular. >   >   The problem with most of those in India who profess to > inhabit the Liberal and Secular space and champion > themselves or are championed as being Liberal and Secular, > is the hypocrisy of the "selectivity" I mentioned > above. We have many such clones on the SARAI Reader List. >   >   Until I became privy to writings on SARAI Reader List, I > had never properly understood the dimensions of the much > used "Pseudo-Secular" term. >   >   What astounds me is the arrogance and shamelessness of > these pseudo-Secularists and pseudo-Liberalists. That is > their business but they are a curse for India. If there is > the spark of conflict in a 'situation' almost > invariably these pseudo-Secularists and pseudo-Liberalists > seems to ensure that the spark becomes a roaring > conflagration. >   >   Consequently, this kind of so called > "Liberals" are the last people I would trust to > bring about rapproachment bertween conflicting positions or > to dissuade people from "extremist" > ideologies. >   >   These pseudo-Liberals and pseudo-Seculars are not the > "Liberals" that you speak of who "know and > appreciate history and society better". If they did > then such an appreciation would reflect itself in measured > articulation that shows understanding even if it comes from > a position of disagreement. >   > - You have made a specific mention of Islam  and wondered > " why do we have to always prove in the end that Islam > is really a religion of peace"     >   >   You (We) have no choice in that until Islam is > propagated and practiced as a religion of peace without a > substantial number of Muslims preaching and practicing > violence in it's name. >   >    There have been good starts (in India) in the All > India Anti-Terrorism Conference organised by the Islamic > Madrassa Association (Dar-Ul-Uloom, Deobandh) in Feb 2008 > and the Anti-Terrorism Conference of the Jamiat Ulema-e-Hind > in Nov 2008. But not good enough. Both had declarations with > a lot of qualifications and conditionalities. Some that made > a mockery of the intended spirit. That is politics and not a > desire to reform. >   >    The condemnation has to be as frequent, as voluble, as > brazen, as fearless as many Hindus saying "we do not > accept the nonsense about caste distinction in the Manu > Smriti" >   >    The problem for Muslims is more deep rooted. I do not > consider those who practice violence in the name of Islam as > a bunch of crazies. That is what they have been taught from > childhood with quotations from the Quran and Hadeeth. That > is how deeprooted the problem is. What are you going to do? > Expunge passages from the Quran? >   >    Hadeeth can easily be dismissed if preachers are > unified in doing so and in not quoting them. (It will be > the toughest for Shias since the Shia version of > Mohammed's Last Sermon has 'Jihad" as one of > the "Pillars of Islam") >   >    The Quran is a different matter altogether especially > since it is supposed to be the Instruction Manual for each > Individual. But since it does not 'descend' on the > individual and has to be taught, it is in the teaching that > proper perspectives can be provided.  It would require for > the teachers to first understand themselves that specific > passages have specific contexts and are not meant as > advisories for eternally afterwards. Start today and > it would take a few generations of such modified teaching > and preaching of the Quran and practice thereof (and > dismissing of contradicting Hadeeth) before Muslims could > claim that Islam is a religion of peace. >   >    Let me give an analogy. I could claim and do claim > that Dharma (known as Hinduism) has the concept of the > Divine as a Consciousness that encompasses all that exists > (animate or inanimate), all that existed,all that will > exist, time past, present, future, the known and the unknown > all bound together. That entities like Ram and Krishna are > mere mortals who have been deified. That Bramha, Vishnu, > Mahesh are mere concepts. That you Yousuf and I are equally > a part of the Divine. I could and do claim that. But, > Hinduism will be judged and seen as Idol Worship with a > whole stable of Gods because that is how Hindus preach and > practice it. >   > - How tough it is from Muslims to redefine Islam can be > seen in your words " Islam is really not against the > pictures of the Prophet" >   >   Islam is against Pictures. Period. The Taliban are not > heretics. Mohammed is quoted in Hadeeth as saying that > Gabriel told him that the Angels do not visit houses that > have images of life forms (and have dogs) in them. What do > the Muslims do now? Where is the courage to dismiss such > Hadeeth or find and preach figuratively/metaphorically > alternate meanings? There are scores and scores of such > retrograde Hadeeth. >   >    At the same time there are some glorious Hadeeth. My > favourite is of Mohammed telling the story of one who was > admonished for destroying a colony of ants instead of just > the one specific ant which had bit him. Or about the Jewish > prostitute who had a place in paradise for > quenching the thirst of a dog.  >   > (My turn to say) I do not know if I made any sense. >   > Kshmendra >   >   > --- On Wed, 2/25/09, Yousuf > wrote: > > From: Yousuf > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Stand up to the > mullahs" - Vir Sanghvi > To: "sarai list" , > kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > Date: Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 8:20 PM > > Dear Kshmendra > Thanks a lot for forwarding the article by Vir Sanghvi. > Since the Sarai list > has been behaving strangely, I got your message only today > (and from the sarai > archives I also found out that within minutes after posting > your message you > have started asking why the Sarai liberals and secularists > etc. are selectively > silent on this) Please allow everyone to see the mail. > > I agree with Vir Sanghvi that the "liberal > people" have given in too > much to the sensitivities of the "religious > people". We have to always > remain extra cautious about not hurting the sensibilities > of the > fundamentalists. And why can't they be sensitive about > the hurt of the > liberals. And why do we have to always prove in the end > that Islam is really a > religion of peace and so on. I think we have discussed this > issue many times on > this list as well as other forums, with examples such as MF > Hussain and the > Prophet cartoons. One really doesn't know what could be > done about it except > to condemn the people who get provoked at the slightest > pretext. But I would > like to go back to some of the interesting debates we had > last year after one of > Hussain's art exhibits was attacked in Delhi. Please > see this particular > one: > > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2008-August/014282.html > > The same month also has some interesting posts on Hussain > by Inder and others. > > I think in most cases, as we have seen in the past, the > provocation doesn't > really arise from the artwork or a write-up itself (or an > individual reading of > it). A problem starts mostly when the subject matter is > exploited for political > gains by a religious/political leaders. But Vir's > distinction that so and so > community is prone to more hurt than the other community is > debatable, since we > have seen all kinds of people get provoked on small matters > (it doesn't > always have to be art or literature). > > Vir says that if Muslims are banned from making the picture > of the prophet, let > them not do it. But why should the non-Muslims refrain from > it. What I would > like to add here is that Islam is really not against the > pictures of the Prophet > - his images have been made in the Islamic world itself > throughout the history > (besides the production of plenty of other liberal forms of > arts and literature > which is not imaginable in today's Islamic world). And > so is the case with > the history of liberal arts in all religions, communities > and countries. But > this fact (about our liberal history) is probably known and > appreciated more by > today's liberals than by the ultra-sensitive mullahs. > So, my question is: > should the liberals and fundamentalists continue to remain > on an offensive by > hurting each other, or should the liberals (who probably > know and appreciate > history and society better) play a proactive role in trying > to inform the > extremists about the more liberal > history we had. > > I don't know if I am making sense here, but this idea > of > "educating" people about the sensitivities of the > liberals (when I > proposed it) was criticized a lot by people on this list. > > Yousuf > > > --- On Tue, 2/24/09, Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: > > > From: Kshmendra Kaul > > Subject: [Reader-list] "Stand up to the > mullahs" - Vir Sanghvi > > To: "sarai list" > > > Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 3:02 PM > > Vir Sanghvi seems to have been provoked into writing > this > > piece by the protest by Muslims against The Statesman > which > > had reproduced an article by Johann Hari "Why > should I > > respect these oppressive religions?" first > published in > > The Independent (UK). > >   > > EXTRACTS: > >   > > - It is now clear that the liberal society has been > > suckered into relaxing its standards for free speech > by > > militant Islamists. > >   > > - But so what if Muslims cannot visually represent > their > > Prophet? Why should non-Muslims be bound by their > religious > > edicts? Why should non-believing Muslims be forced by > > liberal society to obey the restrictions of their > religion? > >   > > - Believers should follow what the Holy Book and the > > mullahs say. But why should the rest of us? Why should > we > > abandon our right to free expression? > >   > > - Nobody I know has ever explained why the double > standards > > are justified. > >   > > - The real reason we give in to Islamic fanatics is > the > > desire for a peaceful life or, to put it another way, > > cowardice. > >   > > - Every one of their objections is always framed in > terms > > of violence. Ban The Satanic Verses or we will kill > Salman > > Rushdie. Apologise for the Danish cartoons or we will > offer > > a reward for the head of the cartoonist. Arrest the > editor > > of the Statesman or we will shut Calcutta down by > rioting in > > the streets. > >   > > - Faced with these threats, we abandon our principles > and > > say things like, “Come on, is a single article worth > the > > death of so many people?” or “Let’s just ban the > book, > > otherwise these guys will keep rioting.” > >   > > - The fanatics know this. They have identified the > > cowardice at the heart of our liberalism. So every > demand is > > a) pitched in terms of protecting the religious > sentiments > > of the Muslim community or b) facing murder, mayhem > and > > more. > >   > > - Almost every single time, we cave in. Either we say > that > > Islam is a peaceful religion. > > Or we get death threats. > >   > > -  Isn’t it time to finally stand up to these thugs > and > > blackmailers? It is up to the Muslim community to rein > in > > its fanatics and some moderates are indeed trying to > do > > this. > >   > > - But as far as secular society is concerned, our > position > > should be clear. We believe in free speech as > guaranteed by > > our Constitution, not as defined by the mullahs. > >   > > Kshmendra > >   > >   > > "Stand up to the mullahs" > > Vir Sanghvi, Hindustan Times > > February 21, 2009 > >   > > If you have missed the controversy that led to the > arrest > > of the editor of The Statesman in Calcutta for > offending > > religious sentiments — which you might have, because > the > > national media downplayed the issue — then here’s > what > > it is about. > >   > > The Statesman reproduced an article by Johann Hari, > the > > young liberal British commentator, from The > Independent. > > Hari’s politics are clear: he stands up for > secularism > > (for which he has won awards), tolerance (he has > defended > > Islam against such critics as Mark Steyn) and > environmental > > concerns. > >   > > The column in question was about attempts by the > > governments of some Islamic states to alter the UN’s > > commitment to free speech. These governments argue > that free > > speech must be restricted on grounds of offence to > religion > > and that discussions of certain issues relating to the > > rights of women must be curtailed because they could > be > > anti-Islamic. > >   > > Hari makes the obvious objections to all of this and > then > > says that religion can often be oppressive. So, why > should > > people be stopped from speaking out against it? He > quotes > > examples of regressive practices from all religions > and says > > that just because these occur in accounts of the lives > of > > gods, messiahs or prophets, that does not make them > above > > criticism. > >   > > Who could possibly object to that? > >   > > Well, a small section of politically-motivated Islamic > > fanatics in Calcutta, that’s who. > >   > > As the people who rioted did not seem like typical > > Statesman readers (they were not genteel Bengalis, > aged 60 > > and above), it is a fair assumption that some cynical > leader > > of an extreme faction of the Muslim community told his > > followers about the ‘grave insult to Islam” and > sent > > them off to riot. > >   > > The CPI(M) government then arrested The Statesman’s > > editor and publisher. But the arrest — though > clearly > > unjustified — seems to have been largely symbolic. > They > > were quickly released and the mobs, satisfied that > “action > > had been taken”, melted away. > >   > > Several points need to be made about the incident. > >   > > First: The article itself. There is not one line in > > Hari’s piece that I would disagree with. If > religions > > deserve respect, then so does atheism. Followers of > > religions have every right to their views and > practices. But > > so do atheists have the right to criticise religion. > Nothing > > in this world is above criticism. > >   > > Two: The rioters said they were offended by a passage > in > > the article where Hari referred to the Prophet’s > marriage > > to a much younger woman and his directive to burn > Jewish > > villages. (In all fairness, he was as critical of > other > > religions and of the Israeli assault on the West > Bank.) > >   > > The rioters say that nobody can criticise any aspect > of the > > Prophet’s life. > >   > > Why? > >   > > There’s no shortage of books and articles > criticising > > Jesus, suggesting that he might have been secretly > married > > (as in The DaVinci Code), arguing that the > resurrection was > > a hoax or that Mary was never a virgin. > >   > > Similarly, would mainstream Hindus be offended if > somebody > > wrote that Hindu mythology features practices that we > would > > find abhorrent today: one wife for five husbands as in > the > > Mahabharat, the compulsive philandering of Krishna or > the > > appalling mistreatment of Sita (the agni pariksha > etc)? > >   > > Some Hindu extremists may protest but I doubt if they > would > > get very far with their objections. The community, as > a > > whole, would shrug its shoulders and many Hindus will > agree > > with the critics. > >   > > > > > > And yet, it is an article of faith with Muslims — > even > > moderate ones — that the Prophet’s life is beyond > > reproach. > >   > > Does this make any sense? > >   > > Three: It is now clear that the liberal society has > been > > suckered into relaxing its standards for free speech > by > > militant Islamists. > >   > > Let’s take the most obvious example. Every liberal I > know > > is outraged by the attacks on MF Husain. Why > shouldn’t he > > paint nude Saraswatis? That’s his right. If people > are > > offended by the paintings, they shouldn’t see them. > >   > > So far, so good. But now imagine that Husain had > painted an > > extremely reverential portrait of the Prophet. (Never > mind > > cartoons, nude pictures etc.) > >   > > There would have been riots. And even secular liberals > > would not have supported him. > >   > > We would have said: Islam prohibits any visual > > representation of the Prophet so Husain has committed > a > > great crime. > >   > > But so what if Muslims cannot visually represent their > > Prophet? Why should non-Muslims be bound by their > religious > > edicts? Why should non-believing Muslims be forced by > > liberal society to obey the restrictions of their > religion? > >   > > Believers should follow what the Holy Book and the > mullahs > > say. But why should the rest of us? Why should we > abandon > > our right to free expression? > >   > > Nobody I know has ever explained why the double > standards > > are justified. > >   > > Four: The reason we are suckered into accepting these > > double standards is because Muslim politicians play > good > > cop-bad cop. > >   > > Look, they say, we are all for freedom of speech. But > if > > you say anything that the fanatics object to, then > they will > > take to the streets, burn property and hurt innocent > people. > > We will do our best to pacify our community, but you > must > > remove any provocation that will cause the hardliners > to > > revolt. > >   > > Turn this around. How would Muslims have reacted if > Hindu > > moderates had said to them: Look, we think this whole > Ram > > Janmbhoomi thing is nonsense. But the BJP will gain > support > > on this platform. So why don’t you agree to move the > Babri > > Masjid? It’s not even a functioning mosque. That > way, we > > remove the provocation and rid the hardliners of their > issue > > and ensure communal harmony. > >   > > Well, Hindu moderates did say this. And we know how > > moderate Muslim politicians reacted. > >   > > Five: The real reason we give in to Islamic fanatics > is the > > desire for a peaceful life or, to put it another way, > > cowardice. > >   > > Every one of their objections is always framed in > terms of > > violence. Ban The Satanic Verses or we will kill > Salman > > Rushdie. Apologise for the Danish cartoons or we will > offer > > a reward for the head of the cartoonist. Arrest the > editor > > of the Statesman or we will shut Calcutta down by > rioting in > > the streets. > >   > > Faced with these threats, we abandon our principles > and say > > things like, “Come on, is a single article worth the > death > > of so many people?” or “Let’s just ban the book, > > otherwise these guys will keep rioting.” > >   > > The fanatics know this. They have identified the > cowardice > > at the heart of our liberalism. So every demand is a) > > pitched in terms of protecting the religious > sentiments of > > the Muslim community or b) facing murder, mayhem and > more. > >   > > Almost every single time, we cave in. > >   > > Either we say that Islam is a peaceful religion. > >   > > Or we get death threats. > >   > > And finally: Isn’t it time to finally stand up to > these > > thugs and blackmailers? It is up to the Muslim > community to > > rein in its fanatics and some moderates are indeed > trying to > > do this. > >   > > But as far as secular society is concerned, our > position > > should be clear. We believe in free speech as > guaranteed by > > our Constitution, not as defined by the mullahs. > >   > > Anything less would be a betrayal of the liberal, > secular > > values we hold dear. > >   > > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/Print.aspx?Id=630b8c69-4672-4e12-ac2a-a9073f5165d4 > >   > > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePage&id=630b8c69-4672-4e12-ac2a-a9073f5165d4&MatchID1=4932&TeamID1=7&TeamID2=8&MatchType1=1&SeriesID1=1247&PrimaryID=4932&Headline=Stand+up+to+the+mullahs > >   > >   > >   > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the > subject > > header. > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 19:42:25 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 19:42:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Stand up to the mullahs" - Vir Sanghvi In-Reply-To: <135342.41569.qm@web51412.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <985923.59993.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <135342.41569.qm@web51412.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Kshamendra Jee (and all) I read your reply with respect to the points made by Shuddha jee. You are not committed to the State and yet you want rights. Only the State can make available your rights and regulate their protection. Without the State there will be anarchy. What this means is that if I don't belong to a state, I can't have a right. This is absolutely atrocious. Even Amartya Sen, in his book 'Development as Freedom' has said (in the context of human rights), that this is not correct. The reason why an agency (in this case, the state) is required to provide rights, in our 'organized societies' (I don't know if the migration of Kashmiri Pandits, the rapes and slaughter of women in Gujarat, and molesting of women going on in Karnataka right now every day in the name of 'moral policing are virtues of organized societies.) is that in addition to a right, this very agency is also going to assign a duty corresponding to the right, so that a pair of right-duty can be maintained. (as mentioned by Amartya Sen, Ch-10, Culture and Human Rights, Development As Freedom) The idea of having a right for any individual, even if the agency doesn't provide for it, is and must be certainly acceptable. What is wrong in it? For example, I think that if the Indian Constitution gives the 'Right to Life', similarly, each citizen must also have the 'Right to Death'. Now the state doesn't guarantee that right, but does that mean that I can't ask for rights? The same argument goes for Shuddha jee or anyone else, whether he/she believes in state forms or not. Now about whether it's the state alone which can provide the right or not. Maybe this statement is true in the current world, and as a realist you may argue that since this is true, be attached to any state. I however don't have any knowledge about the past, and hence would like others to enlighten all of us, regarding the agencies which provided rights to people at different stages of history. The problem with state-supporting people is that, they dread anarchy. With the kind of nation-state we have created (the British were as much responsible for this), this certainly is a problem. Otherwise, we could have returned to the 'India of old' where the wars and intrigues were a problem at the top; the common man at the bottom could peacefully live his/her life. (The Idea of India, Sudhir Kakar) Regards Rakesh From turbulence at turbulence.org Mon Feb 16 04:53:31 2009 From: turbulence at turbulence.org (Turbulence) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 18:23:31 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Turbulence Spotlight: "Sensitive Rose" by Martha Gabriel Message-ID: <00cb01c98fc4$6bcf4ec0$436dec40$@org> Turbulence Spotlight: "Sensitive Rose" by Martha Gabriel http://turbulence.org/spotlight/sensitive_rose [Needs mobile device with camera and QRcode reader] "Sensitive Rose" is an interactive, navigable compass formed by mobile tags (QRcodes). To interact with "Sensitive Rose" one has to access the work via a mobile device. Once there, the user must choose what he/she wants from life. On the web "Sensitive Rose" maps the desire next to the tag related to it, and generates a new QRcode for that user. The desire -- for instance, "Joe wants Love" – is added to the compass rose which evolves with each new contribution. Users can decipher one another’s desires by decoding the poetry hidden within these tags. "Sensitive Rose" was commissioned by Nokia Trends São Paulo 2008 BIOGRAPHY Martha Gabriel is an artist, engineer, author, and educator. Her work has be exhibited internationally, including Turbulence.org, Soundtoys, FILE (Electronic Language International Festival), Cinetico_Digital, Ingenio 4000, prog:me, SIGGRAPH, FIAT Mostra Brazil among others. She has presented at world-renowned conferences such as Consciousness Reframed, ELO, and SCANZ. Martha is a Professor at University Anhembi Morumbi and the Director of technology at NMD – New Media Developers. Sao Paulo, Brazil. She is the founder and curator of Upgrade! Sao Paulo, and is currently pursuing a Ph.D. in Art at University of Sao Paulo. Martha’s awards include: “Institute of Engineering of Sao Paulo” Award, Brazil, 1985; 11 “Internet Best” Awards in Brazil, 1998 to 2005; “FIAT Show Brazil” Award/Selection at Biennial of Sao Paulo, Brazil, 2006; “Rumos Cybernetic Art 2006/2007”, Brazil, 2007; "Best of Track Presentation: Posters", US, 2008. For more Turbulence Spotlights, please see http://turbulence.org Jo-Anne Green, Co-Director New Radio and Performing Arts, Inc.: http://new-radio.org New York: 917.548.7780 • Boston: 617.522.3856 Turbulence: http://turbulence.org Networked_Performance Blog: http://turbulence.org/blog Networked_Music_Review: http://turbulence.org/networked_music_review Upgrade! Boston: http://turbulence.org/upgrade New American Radio: http://somewhere.org _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From turbulence at turbulence.org Tue Feb 17 02:11:39 2009 From: turbulence at turbulence.org (Turbulence) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 15:41:39 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Floating Points 6: Games of Culture | Art of Games Message-ID: <02a601c99076$fa1cec70$ee56c550$@org> Floating Points 6: Games of Culture | Art of Games http://institute.emerson.edu/floatingpoints/2009/ A Film Screening, Symposium and Workshops with Asi Burak, Anita Fontaine, Jesper Juul, Friedrich Kirschner, Marcin Ramocki, Jason Rohrer, Adriana de Souza Silva, Mushon Zer-Aviv DATE: March 20-21, 2009 VENUE: Emerson College, Boston + streamed live on the web and in Second Life. FREE and OPEN to the public. Registration details on the website Video games extend beyond the gaming console into nearly every aspect of contemporary life. They are fun. They drive innovation, consumer engagement and employee productivity. Is our culture turning everything into a game? Video Games have had a greater impact on narrative form than any medium since film. They are altering our experience of both virtual and physical space. Gamespace is everywhere and nowhere (McKenzie Wark, Gamer Theory). In Video Game Spaces: Image, Play, and Structure in 3D Worlds, Michael Nitsche introduces five analytical layers - rule-based space, mediated space, fictional space, play space, and social space. How do artists and game designers use these spaces in their creative practice? How does structured play impact our engagement with other people, both online and in urban space? What are the political and cultural implications of gaming practices? More information at http://institute.emerson.edu/floatingpoints/2009/ Jo-Anne Green, Co-Director New Radio and Performing Arts, Inc.: http://new-radio.org New York: 917.548.7780 . Boston: 617.522.3856 Turbulence: http://turbulence.org Networked_Performance Blog: http://turbulence.org/blog Networked_Music_Review: http://turbulence.org/networked_music_review Upgrade! Boston: http://turbulence.org/upgrade New American Radio: http://somewhere.org _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From lists at shivamvij.com Thu Feb 26 23:56:42 2009 From: lists at shivamvij.com (Shivam V) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 23:56:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Online Journalism & Web 2.0 programme by Deutsche Welle Akademie - IGNOU Message-ID: <1fd66c110902261026w26b1f934j92665c85ca67203d@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, IGNOU’s School of Journalism & New Media Studies in collaboration with Deutsche Welle (DW) Akademie, Germany is conducting a month-long intensive training programme on Online Journalism during 23rd March - 17th April 2009. Last date for receiving completed application forms is March 10, 2009. The training will be conducted by trainers drawn from Deutsche Welle Akademie on the state-of-the-art multimedia lab at IGNOU New Delhi Campus. The DW-Akademie is one of the premier institutions of media education and training in Europe. As part of the collaboration, some of the participants may be considered for traineeship in Germany. The target group of the programme is young professionals, teachers of journalism and mass communication and also graduates (preferably in journalism and mass communication) who wish to excel in online journalism. The details of the programme are attached with this mail. Could you please circulate this information among your associates/faculty/students and nominate participants for the training programme? Thanks. warm regards, Sajan Sajan Venniyoor for Deutsche Welle New Delhi +91-9818453483 (Mob) +91-11-46573173 (Res) Email: venniyoor at gmail.com From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Feb 27 03:03:40 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 21:33:40 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Narcissism / Faith / Models In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40902191850w4050c303l238f62f08340bc1b@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40902191850w4050c303l238f62f08340bc1b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40902261333g504e586el5f98f0b51952b32@mail.gmail.com> Dear Jeebesh How can an institution otherwise come into being if not by taking into cognizance other experiments in institutional building? And if they were to suggest some further ways to conduct social or economic or political process then what is so wrong in that? I agree that wall street was not able to hold on to an illusion of a robust economy but should a failure to sustain a willing suspension of disbelief act as another 'model' to snatch any further 'model making' agency from this beautiful institution. In many ways I find the existence of robust stock exchanges within a country, cathartic. Do they not act as channels to dispel collective nervous anxieties of social mobility and a greater share in re-distribution of private income? It is true that a stock exchange cannot be a true representative of the socio-economic health of a nation but is it not true, that at the same time, a stock exchange can, in a way, project an image through rough indicators about how a nation is faring as far as its biggest private industries are concerned? You write- These models had percolated to all forms of social organization (e.g grant making bodies) and has had consequences on the ways life choices, effectivity etc was written and imagined. So? Would you not like to believe that even if these models have 'percolated to all forms of social organization', there must have been innumerable occasions when core arguments, procedures, processes contained in this model must have had some amount of 'resistance'. I wonder what makes you so disapproving of 'models'? Warm regards Taha dear Taha, I would think it more about a consensus that accumulates around some visions and modalities in some institutions and schools of thought. This then can have consequences . It more a speculation. I thought the obsession around "models" that this report pointed out was interesting to reflect on. These models had percolated to all forms of social organization (e.g grant making bodies) and has had consequences on the ways life choices, effectivity etc was written and imagined. warmly jeebesh From oishiksircar at gmail.com Fri Feb 27 10:02:52 2009 From: oishiksircar at gmail.com (OISHIK SIRCAR) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:02:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Queer Thoughts: Call for Papers Message-ID: <62cba67a0902262032l67d5ef36j256b35f7dfd40fd4@mail.gmail.com> *Queer Thoughts* A Conference organized by Sappho for Equality 10 – 11 April 2009 Kolkata Queer Thoughts is a conference organized by Sappho for Equality encouraging young persons all over India to come up with their thoughts, ideas, concerns, analyses and expressions on the theme ‘Queer’. Sappho for Equality is an organization engaged in sexuality rights movement in general and LBT rights movement in particular. It is an open forum for activists who believe in and strive to attain a world free from homophobia and sexual orientation based discrimination. Queer Thoughts is envisaged as a two-day conference divided into four sessions. Each session would have a distinct key theme and 2/3 papers on each theme will be presented in the sessions. The four key themes are: 1. Defining queer (how to define the term queer, who is a queer, socio-political and gender-sexual understanding of queer) 2. Living queer (living as a queer in this country, queer experiences, triumph and turbulence of queer existence) 3. Expressing queer (queer as a theme expressed though literature, film, theatre, painting, sculpture or any other art form) 4. Politicizing queer (emergence of queer politics, queer as a political identity, queer rights movement and its politics) Each of these sessions will be chaired by noted personalities, nationally and internationally acclaimed academicians and activists engaged in queer studies and queer rights movement. Queer Thoughts as a space primarily for young persons will generate many fresh, dynamic, path breaking and stimulating ideas, discussions and action points. Sappho for Equality expects to bring out new, thought provoking and challenging concepts on the theme ‘queer’ through this conference that if incorporated, will help the queer rights movement. We invite original, interesting and substantial papers, within 3000 words, from young persons between 20 to 28 years on any of the four key themes indicated above. An abstract of approximately 300 words should be emailed to sappho1999 at rediffmail.com by 15th of March, 2009. Those whose abstracts are selected will be invited to present papers at the conference. Please attach short curriculum vitae along with the abstract and contact numbers. Papers should be in English only. Outstation participants will be provided with train fare (to and fro) and board and lodging in the city for the conference days. Sappho, Support Group for Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Women [image: Shopping] -- OISHIK SIRCAR oishiksircar at gmail.com oishik.sircar at utoronto.ca From tetranew at sarai.net Thu Feb 26 13:36:47 2009 From: tetranew at sarai.net (tetra) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 13:36:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] test mail please ignore Message-ID: <49A64D97.9020100@sarai.net> From tetranew at sarai.net Fri Feb 27 10:29:50 2009 From: tetranew at sarai.net (tetra) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:29:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] test mail please ignore Message-ID: <49A77346.5040501@sarai.net> From tetranew at sarai.net Fri Feb 27 11:11:33 2009 From: tetranew at sarai.net (tetra) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 11:11:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] test mail Message-ID: <49A77D0D.2060405@sarai.net> From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Fri Feb 27 11:39:46 2009 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 11:54:46 +0545 Subject: [Reader-list] BDR Mutiny In Dhaka Over. List Of Dead Grows Message-ID: Updates on the dead from BDR Mutiny, the fallout, the media, are all being updated real-time here. http://unheardvoice.net/blog * We Mourn - Let Saturday be a National Mourning Day * The Day After * BREAKING: BDR Mutiny * What are we thinking? * PHOTOS: BDR Mutiny http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=77644 From tetranew at sarai.net Fri Feb 27 13:16:40 2009 From: tetranew at sarai.net (tetra) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:16:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] test Message-ID: <49A79A60.7060907@sarai.net> From alice at tank.tv Thu Feb 26 16:12:41 2009 From: alice at tank.tv (Alice O'Reilly) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 10:42:41 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] www.tank.tv : John Latham : 22nd February - 15th March 2009 Message-ID: <442eb4460902260242j6a421664sd60134b92261f14f@mail.gmail.com> *John Latham on www.tank.tv 22nd February - 15th March 2009 tank.tv is extremely pleased to have the rare opportunity to present a selection of John Latham’s films: Unedited Material from the Star, Talk Mr Bard, Speak, Britannica, Erth and more. * The influence of John Latham (1921-2006), an artist whose work includes painting, performance and film to mention just a few, has extended far beyond the boundaries of the art world. Interested in theoretical physics, Latham developed an opposing cosmology which rejected the primacy of space and matter and favour of time and event. The body of work and concepts which developed out of this way of thinking still challenge the way we conceive of art as event and of the place of the artist within society. Today, the relevancy of Latham’s life and oeuvre remains intact in that it points to the contemporary necessity of bridging people, practices and ideas. John Latham (1921 – 2006) has been associated with several national and international artistic movements since he began showing work in the late 1940s. He is associated with the first phase of conceptual art of the 1960s, was an important contributor to the Destruction in Art Symposium of 1966, and was a founder member of the Artist Placement Group (1966-89). Latham’s work has been exhibited internationally, including recent solo exhibitions at Tate Britain (2005) and PS1, New York (2006). His work has been included in numerous historic group shows and many survey exhibitions of British Art since the 1960s including Live in Your Head (Whitechapel Gallery, London, 2000), From Blast To Freeze (Kunstmuseum Wolfsburg, Germany, 2003) and Art and the 60s: This was tomorrow (Tate Britain, 2004). Flat Time House, John Latham’s home and studio, has been open to the public since October 2008 for a programme of exhibitions and events, and as an archive and research centre. Details of opening hours and forthcoming events can be found at www.flattimeho.org.uk *John Latham’s work is represented by Lisson Gallery and distributed by LUX. With special thanks to LUX, the Latham Estate and Elisa Kay.* *www.tank.tv* -- -- - - - - - - - - - - - - Alice O'Reilly tank.tv 2nd Floor Princess House 50 - 60 Eastcastle Street London W1W 8EA alice at tank.tv T: +44 (0)207323 3475 F: +44 (0)207631 4280 http://www.tank.tv - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Now showing: Alexander Heim 1st - 14th February 2009 'Fresh Moves' - Order your copy on www.tank.tv "A significant archive of creative practices in the early years of twenty-first century England" Tyler Coburn, Tomorrow Unlimited --- tank.tv is an inspirational showcase for innovative work in film and video. Dedicated to exhibiting and promoting emerging and established international artists, www.tank.tv acts as a major online gallery and archive for video art. A platform for contemporary moving images. From turbulence at turbulence.org Mon Feb 23 07:04:47 2009 From: turbulence at turbulence.org (Turbulence) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 20:34:47 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Turbulence Spotlight: (sans femme et sans aviateur) by Jorn Ebner Message-ID: <00ba01c99556$eb3efe70$c1bcfb50$@org> Turbulence Spotlight: (sans femme et sans aviateur) by Jorn Ebner http://turbulence.org/spotlight/ebner [Allow Pop-ups; Firefox users read instructions] (sans femme et sans aviateur) is a browser-based work that was inspired by Eric Rohmer’s film “The Aviator’s Wife”. It depicts contemporary Paris, happened upon following the main locations of the movie. The photographic imagery and the audio material were recorded during walks, and bus and metro rides, in a manner similar to the Nouvelle Vague film maker -- although without any pre-arrangements for settings and observations; and with repeated visits to the locations. “My intention was to honour Rohmer’s powers to get me interested in Paris, and at the same time make a work that discovers the city, even if only for myself … The work was also made with (the) intention to use the browser as a presentation tool that is independent of user interaction.” – Jorn Ebner BIOGRAPHY Jorn Ebner, artist and writer, born in1966, Bremerhaven, Germany, currently based in Berlin. Studies in English Literature at the Universität Hamburg [1990-95] and Fine Art at Central Saint Martins in London [1995-98]. Kunstpreis Medienforum Münchnen [2001]. AHRB Research Fellow, Newcastle University [2002-2005]. Since 2000 his works are largely online-based: a suite of internet works including “Leonardo Log” [2004], “Leif Codices” [2003], “Lee Marvin Toolbox” [2001] were animated, interactive drawings - tools for existence. Since 2008 his new pieces including “(sans femme...)”, audio work “(the tender indifference)”, and “(«Feuerland»)” are non-interactive spatial examinations. His online audio works include “Which---Side” [2007], a downloadable song-sculpture (Newcastle City Council public art programme commission 2007), and “Leonardo Log (Klanglandschaft)” [2002], originally a walkable installation at iCamp Neues Theater, München. Ebner’s works have been featured in various exhibitions & Festivals (Siggraph; FILE; Stuttgarter Filmwinter; Viper; selection FILE Rio. Ars Electronica Festival 2008 & 2006 commissioned visualisations for Elliott Carter and John Cage performances by the Bruckner Orchestra. Recent exhibitions 2009: Paperpool, Doerrie*Priess, Hamburg; Uncommon Ground, Vane, Newcastle upon Tyne; [12] Japan Media Art Festival, National Art Center, Tokyo. Contemporary Flânerie, Oakland University Gallery, Rochester. For more Turbulence Spotlights, please visit http://turbulence.org/spotlight Jo-Anne Green, Co-Director New Radio and Performing Arts, Inc.: http://new-radio.org New York: 917.548.7780 • Boston: 617.522.3856 Turbulence: http://turbulence.org Networked_Performance Blog: http://turbulence.org/blog Networked_Music_Review: http://turbulence.org/networked_music_review Upgrade! Boston: http://turbulence.org/upgrade New American Radio: http://somewhere.org _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Wed Feb 25 11:22:56 2009 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (artNET) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 06:52:56 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BAnnouncements=5D_CologneOFF_in_In?= =?iso-8859-1?q?dia?= Message-ID: <20090225065256.727879F9.FB0F49E2@192.168.0.3> CologneOFF - Cologne Online Film Festival http://coff.newmediafest.org is proud to announce the screening of the latest festival edition CologneOFF IV - Here We Are! http://coff.newmediafest.org/index4.html on CeC - Carnival of e-Creativity http://www.theaea.org/cec_cac/cec09/index.htm Sattal/Uttarakhand (India) 27 February - 1 March 2009 CologneOFF festival director, Wilfried Agricola de Cologne, who belongs also to the advisory board of The Academy of Electronic Arts New Dehli/India - http://www.theaea.org/ which is organising --> CEC - Carnival of e-Creativity, has 2009 also the function of its co-curator. CEC - Carnival of e-Creativity is presenting as a retrospective his video art project "Some Minutes of a Times" - time based art 2004-2008 http://movingpictures.agricola-de-cologne.de/blog?page_id=50 ---------------------------------------------------------- CologneOFF - Cologne Online Film Festival http://coff.newmediafest.org - a new type of mobile film & video festival - taking place simultaneously online and in physical space in cooperation with partner festivals. is a corporate part of [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne - www.nmartproject.net the experimental platform for art and new media from Cologne/Germany info (at) nmartproject.net ---------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Fri Feb 27 12:50:48 2009 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (netEX) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 08:20:48 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BAnnouncements=5D_netEX=3A_calls_?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=26_deadlines_--=3E_March_2009?= Message-ID: <20090227082048.CD98671A.A9FBEF87@192.168.0.3> netEX: calls & deadlines -->March 2009 ------------------------------------- [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne newsletter contents calls & deadlines 03 Calls: 2009 deadlines internal 20 Calls: March 2009 deadlines external 9 Calls: ongoing external/internal ------------------------------------------------ Calls & deadlines ---> ------------------------------------------------ 2009: deadlines internal Deadline: 30 September A Virtual Memorial - memorial project environments is looking for artists who work on the subject "SHOAH" in digital media, primarily videoart/filmart, but also netart, soundart, digital photography and media installation http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=662 extended Deadline 2 May 2009 Cinematheque - streaming media project environments call: Flash & Thunder - Flash as a medium and tool for artistic creations http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=408 extended Deadline 2 May 2009 VideoChannel - video project environments call: One Minute Videos http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=447 ------------------------------------------------ March 2009 deadlines: external ------------------------------------------------ 31 March Festival International de Cinema dell’Arte Bergamo/Italy http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=644 31 March CyBorg Film Festival Anghari/Arezzo (Italy) http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=454 31 March Lenola Film Festival Lenola/Italy http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=440 27 March Visions in the Nunnery London/UK http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=670 22 March Crosstalk Videoart Festival Budapest/Hungary http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=467 20 March ISIS Research Residencies Newcastle/Tyne (UK) http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=720 15 March Paraflows#09 Festival Vienna/Austria http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=547 15 March Pure Data Covention & Art Festival Sao Paulo/Brazil http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=711 15 March RomaEuropaFakeFactory http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=570 15 March Images Contre Nature Festival Marseille/France http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=444 14 March The Pixel Project - UAVM / VIRTUAL MUSEUM http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=706 13 March Euganea Movie Movement Festival Padova/Italy) http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=498 10 March Cine Remix - Tilt Festival/France http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=651 10 March FILE Festival Sao Paulo/Brazil http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=515 9 March AVISON LIVE: audio visual work commission (UK) http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=674 6 March 23th Prix Ars Electronica Linz/Austria http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=534 6 March EcoVision Film Festival 2009 Palermo/Italy http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=416 2 March Pocket Film Festival Paris/F http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=555 2 March new media & video for DMAC New York/NY http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=543 1 March Terminal’s 1st Annual Short Video Festival (USA) http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=434 ----------------------------------------------- Ongoing calls: external/internal ----------------------------------------------- -->Videos for Bivouac Projects Sumter/USA -->OUTCASTING - web based screenings -->Films and video screenings Sioux City (USA) -->Laisle screenings Rio de Janeiro/Brazil -->Videos for Helsinki based video gallery - 00130 Gallery -->Web based works for 00130 Gallery Helsinki/Finland -->Project: Repetition as a Model for Progression by Marianne Holm Hansen -->US webjournal Atomic Unicorn seeks netart and video art for coming editions -->TAGallery and more deadlines on http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?page_id=4 ----------------------------------------------- NetEX - networked experience http://netex.nmartproject.net # calls in the external section--> http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?cat=3 # calls in the internal section--> http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?cat=1 ----------------------------------------------- # This newsletter is also released on http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?cat=9 # netEX - networked experiences is a free information service powered by [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne http://www.nmartproject.net - the experimental platform for art and new media from Cologne/Germany # info & contact: info (at) nmartproject.net _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From veenashekar at gmail.com Fri Feb 27 15:18:02 2009 From: veenashekar at gmail.com (Veena Shekar) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:18:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Invitation Message-ID: www.chitralakshana.com Chitralakshana cordially invites you for its premier show The Artists’ Word An Exhibition of Art works By Eminent Artists Curated By Dr. Veena Shekar On Sunday, 1st march 2009 Between 6.15 P.M to 7.30 P.M Mr. M.N. Venkatachaliah Former Chief Justice of India Has kindly consented to inaugurate the show The show will remain open till the 7th March 2009 At Galleries 1 & 2 Karnataka Chitrakala Parishath Art Complex Kumara Krupa Road Bangalore-560001 Hosted by Sameeksha- Art Research, Media, Bangalore www.sameeksha.org -- Dr. Veena Shekar Art historian & Consultant Bangalore www.chitralakshana.com From aliens at dataone.in Fri Feb 27 19:25:53 2009 From: aliens at dataone.in (bipin) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 19:25:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] ignore pub attack Message-ID: <000801c998e3$1b4b07f0$0201a8c0@limo> Dear All, Regarding Manglore pub attack, don't you think we are giving too much hype and that way giving un-necessary publicity to irrelevant organization like ram sena? By this way, we are giving too much publicity and that is what they want. Such incident are always condemnable, but such incident does happens (may be some other way and not particular pub attack) in many parts of India as routine, but since there is no organizations are involved in it (particularly Hindu organization) doesn't come in the lime light. By boycotting the things from Karnataka is not the solution. This way you are increasing unemployment in this economical crisis. Please note that Karnataka govt. is elected democratically with about 45% vote share and you are not respecting verdict by this way. As a Banglorian spirit, it is surprising that you get disturbed with such an incidence of pub attack and unnecessary wasting your prestigious time in discussing it. Best way to tackle such incidence is just to ignore it and I am sure you will not find any repetition of it. By ignoring there moral will get down. No doubt, according to law the culprit must be punished and this case is going on that way. But, you know how slow court cases going on in India. Since so many days I have been noticing the heavy discussion going on for this, so I gave my opinion. By the way I am not belonging to any political party. thanks Bipin Trivedi From phadkeshilpa at gmail.com Sat Feb 28 01:34:54 2009 From: phadkeshilpa at gmail.com (Shilpa Phadke) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 01:34:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Invitation to a Talk: Cairo: Cartographies of Exclusion in Middle East Urbanism Message-ID: Please fwd widely. Apologis for cross-posting. Centre for Media & Cultural Studies, Tata Institute of Social Sciences, Mumbai and Urban Design Research Institute are very pleased to invite you to a talk titled: *Cairo**: Cartographies of Exclusion in Middle East Urbanism* by *Martina Rieker* *Date*: 04 March 2009 *Time*: 6.30 p.m. *Place*: Urban Design Research Institute 43 Dr V.B. Gandhi Marg Kala Ghoda Fort Mumbai 400 023 Tel: 65735773 *Abstract:* The transformation of the modernist city with its celebration of diversity into gated enclaves of the affluent and far away informal communities of the poor is a *sine qua non* of contemporary critical urban literature. What is less well understood are the implications of the experience of the urban for the working poor in much of the global south. With the growth of informal laboring practices in post-industrial urban economies different sorts of creative mobility is demanded of the people who inhabit the contemporary city at its social and economic margins. Contemporary practices of visioning the urban (on the part of youth, women, men) are both embedded in and expand beyond the register of an earlier 'rights to the city' narrative. Drawing on research in Cairo, the first part of this paper examines ways in which these new urban mobilities re-articulate visions of the urban for the working poor. The neo-liberalization of the quotidian megatropolis raises important questions concerning the meaning of local exclusionary spatial inscriptions as such. With modernist urban centre and periphery models, among others, no longer providing a productive analytic grid through which to understand practices of the city, the second part of the paper explores forms of connections, communications, exchanges and activisms and that are being created within the temporal-spatial register of a very specific neo-liberal urban project. *About the Speaker:* Martina Rieker is Director of the Institute for Gender and Women's Studies at the American University in Cairo. Together with Kamran Ali she is the co-founder and co-coordinator of the Shehr Comparative Urban Landscapes in the Middle East, South Asia, Africa Network (www.shehr.net) The Shehr network is an academic initiative that seeks to further a social-historical and critical understanding of contemporary cities and urban practices in the Middle East, South Asia and Africa. The initiative examines the efficacy of the category of the city in modernist discourse and seeks to chart this spatial imagination and its effects through an exploration of the complex processes through which gendered, classed, and raced citizen-subjects have negotiated and been the object of urban projects in these regions. Attuned to both the legacy of modernist conceptual grammars and their inadequacy for understanding the remaking of space and place in the neo-liberal present, the purpose of the network is to open up an arena in which to address the particular positioning(s) of contemporary urban landscapes and urban practices through theme-based workshops, publications and an on-line discussion and exchange forum. Recent network publications ed. by Ali/ Rieker include *Gendering Urban Space *(Palgrave, 2007), *Comparing Cities: Middle East/South Asia* (Oxford University Press, 2009 forthcoming) and a special issue of the journal *Social Text *(95/ 2008) entitled "Urban Margins: Envisioning the Global South." From lawrence at altlawforum.org Sat Feb 28 02:23:51 2009 From: lawrence at altlawforum.org (Lawrence Liang) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 02:23:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Account of Woman Attacked in Bangalore Message-ID: Hi all In addition to the blog posted earlier, this is an account by a woman attacked in Bangalore ( names Changed) Time, date of Attack: 11:15-11:30 on My name is XXXXX. I am a Bangalorean. At least I think I am. I fell in love with this city two years ago and shifted base from Mumbai. I was on my way to work at Koramangala at around 11.15-11.30 in the morning when my auto broke down at Ulsoor. As I was hailing another one a white Quallis slowed down next to me and the occupants said something to me in Kannada. I rolled my eyes. That was their provocation. I do not know if that angered them but the more I dwell on that unforgettable episode in my life, they seemed like predators, on the hunt. Before I knew it four middle-aged men emerged out of the vehicle and began verbally assaulting me. First they started hurling obscenities at me in Kannada and then it became physical. They started touching and pulling at my clothes. One of them tugged so brutally at the shrug I was wearing that he scratched my neck. Their goal — to show the collected crowd the top that I was wearing underneath my shrug. When the shrug didn’t come off with their tugging, the violence of the tugging increased. In self defence I hit out at an offending hand that was trying to disrobe me. The response, he slapped me hard across my ear. Then they began trying to lift my top up while making references to ‘pink chaddi’ – the only words I could understand of their tirade. I told them I would call the police and one of them arrogantly proffered me his phone to make the call. The few people who dared to gather and watch were dumbfounded and no one said a thing. Some passing cars even slowed down, but not one stopped to help. The whole time, the four of them kept up the tireless rant of obscenities, calling me names and trying to humiliate me in front of the gathered crowd. They couldn’t bear that a woman was looking them in the eye, and each time I raised my head to look at the tormentors, they kept pushing my head down, threatening me not to look at them in the face. While they were hitting my head, an army vehicle drove past. They stopped and intervened. Finally the army men helped me into a rickshaw to continue on what I thought was going to be a regular day at work. It looked like these guys just wanted to make a spectacle and humiliate someone that day. And I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I don’t want to imagine what would have happened to me if the army men hadn’t put an end to the humiliation. I do not want to talk to the cops as even with hardcore evidence, the police didn’t do anything about the Mangalore episode and those hooligans are out. I do not want to talk to the press and be anyone’s political scapegoat. The whole situation was a nightmare and every time I talk about it, I relive it. From lawrence at altlawforum.org Sat Feb 28 02:25:03 2009 From: lawrence at altlawforum.org (Lawrence Liang) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 02:25:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Account of woman attacked in Bangalore-2 Message-ID: Time, date of Attack: 9:00 p.m, 24th Feb My name is Lakshmi. I was attacked on 24th Feb at around 9:00 pm. I was walking down Vasanthnagar after I’d wrapped up work looking for an auto. At the underbridge I noticed four men walking down the road towards me. I crossed over to the other side, just in case. I continued to walk down towards Kodava Samaj. Suddenly I realised that the four men had crossed the road as well. Once they were close enough they started pushing me and passing comments. I tried to ignore them, stepped around them and continued walking. They turned around and walked back towards me and started pushing me around. I finally lost my temper and turned and told them to leave me alone, One of them came really close and started abusing me in Kannada and Hindi. At that point I pushed him away from me. The next thing I know I’m in the middle of a roadside brawl. The guy who spoke to me punched me and the other three started hitting me as well. I fought back and all of us were in a scuffle All through the attack I was abused in Hindi and Kannada for wearing jeans and fighting back. After what seemed like an eternity I heard an auto go by and I shouted out to him. Luckily for me he stopped. For a split second the four men were taken aback and let go off me I pushed them and ran across the road, climbed into the auto and begged him to take me home. The four men followed me to the auto and tried to drag me out. At that point the auto guy started the auto and rode away. The whole attack must have happened in a span of about 5 or 6 minutes. From elkamath at yahoo.com Sat Feb 28 08:44:19 2009 From: elkamath at yahoo.com (lalitha kamath) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 19:14:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] UK tackling BigRetail Message-ID: <783214.32241.qm@web53602.mail.re2.yahoo.com> This might be of interest in light of the concerns about big retail destroying small kirana shops and the subsequent closure of many of the big retailer's outlets... Tesco and Asda attack Competition Commission crackdown By James Thompson Friday, 27 February 2009 Tesco and Asda have attacked the Competition Commission's plans to crack down on supermarkets' relationships with suppliers, arguing it will lead to higher prices for consumers as grocers are burdened with a further deluge of red tape. The commission today unveiled its proposals for a new and strengthened Groceries Supply Code of Practice that includes prohibiting retrospective adjustments to contracts. It also plans to make it harder for grocers to delist suppliers and prohibit them from holding suppliers liable for losses due to shrinkage, such as damaged products. Paul Kelly, the director of corporate affairs at Asda, said the cost of administering the code for supermarkets and its impact on weakening the "competitive tension" that exists between grocers and suppliers will lead to higher prices for consumers. "It seems perverse to put in regulations that by the Competition Commission's own admission will put up prices for consumers." The commission has given the inquiry's participants one month to respond to its guidance, but after that, it is keen to bring in GSCOP before the end of 2009. Lucy Neville-Rolfe, Tesco's executive director, said: "In the current sensitive economic climate, this proposal adds substantial costs to an industry that is generally working well for the consumer. The Commission says they are seeking to avoid undue burdens on business, but they have done no cost benefit analysis of the kind usually carried out under Government guidelines on regulation." Mr Kelly said the new code will offer protection to under-performing suppliers. "This is potentially a mandate for protecting smaller suppliers whereas good manufacturers will lose out because they cannot easily replace poor ones and that seems slightly perverse as well," he said. Ms Neville-Rolfe cited the administrative burden of the new code. "We are glad the order is out for consultation, and we will be making a number of points to reduce compliance costs for all concerned and avoid regulatory creep. For example very minor changes to arrangements will now have to be formally confirmed in writing which will involve an extra 2 million emails a year for Tesco alone," she said. While Tesco, Asda, Morrisons and Sainsbury's are covered by the current code of practice, all grocery retailers with annual turnover of more than £1bn, includinng Iceland, Aldi and Waitrose, will be covered by GSCOP. The commission also wants to introduce an ombudsman which will handle disputes between grocers and suppliers. The commission delivered its final report into the two-year grocery inquiry in April 2008, but Tesco is appealing a separate proposal, the Competition Test, which seeks to prevent one retailer from gaining a dominant position in a local market. The Competition Appeals Tribunal is expected to deliver its verdict on Tesco's appeal of the Competition Test over the coming weeks. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/tesco-and-asda-attack-competition-commission-crackdown-1633868.html Cross-posted from Debate DEBATE at debate.kabissa.org From joshuasoans at gmail.com Sat Feb 28 11:37:56 2009 From: joshuasoans at gmail.com (Joshua Soans) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:37:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] ignore pub attack In-Reply-To: <000801c998e3$1b4b07f0$0201a8c0@limo> References: <000801c998e3$1b4b07f0$0201a8c0@limo> Message-ID: I agree with much of what Bipin says. I wrote a paper for a course in my college that is is concerned with the way the media and the public debated the issue. I attach it for your consideration. Also do check out this article in The Hoot, "Making a Muthalik of a Molehill" ( http://www.thehoot.org/web/home/story.php?storyid=3664&mod=1&pg=1§ionId=22&valid=true ) My paper follows: *The discussion in the public sphere that followed the Amnesia pub incident in Mangalore, particularly in the discussions in the popular media, leaves much to be desired. Images of the hapless girls being physically assaulted no doubt should leave us all indignant. Nevertheless, it is a matter of concern of how the media and others in the public sphere, in an attempt to champion progressive, liberal ideals, resorted to condemning the attack largely in cultural terms, completely side-stepping the issue of what the Constitution and the law had to say on the matter. In doing so, two grievous errors were committed. * *Firstly, the entire incident was trivialized into a question of what constitutes ‘Indian’ culture and who had the right to enforce it. As it is, (and as I will show) this was not merely a matter of culture; there were other factors at play. But most importantly, this allowed the Sena and their sympathizers to side-step question of the criminality of their act and instead turn it into a debate about the definition of culture, a matter so woolly and problematic, it is best left alone.* *Secondly, the rabidly liberal media did all it could to portray the cultural conservatives as nut-cases. This agenda was palpable in the Big Fight talk show on NDTV. It also becomes obvious when politicians throw around phrases like ‘Talibanization of Mangalore’[1] <#_ftn1>. Everyone with culturally conservative views was equated with hoodlums who would beat up women in the name of culture without a qualm. This stance of the media quickly isolated the conservatives who now have no reason to engage in a discourse via the popular media. An interesting manifestation of this sentiment is that under every pro-liberal reporting of the incident online, the comments pages are usually filled with anti-liberal sloganeering.* *In light of this incident, I will explore in the following essay, the importance of a layered, multidimensional approach to a discussion that follows. I will also re-examine the emphasis that Sen places on the role of Reason in public debates and his implicit stress on the synthesis of outcomes in a dialogue.* *** The violence at the Amnesia pub in Mangalore on the 24th of January presents a lot of fodder for discussion on a number of themes such as culture, identity and discursive practices. There is however yet another aspect to the incident which, although to my understanding should have been at the forefront of the discussion was either entirely absent or merely given a passing mention. This is the question of what the constitution and the law has to say on the matter. There are several layers of understanding to the incident and the subsequent verbal jousting that took place in civil society and it is important to carefully pry apart each layer and not confuse one with the other. At the most immediate level is the violation of personal rights and liberties, embodied in the brutal physical assault on the women and those men who tried to offer them protection. At this level it is inconsequential whether or not the women’s actions were outside the bounds of Indian culture. It is inconsequential whether women offered men *soma* in some ancient Hindu texts. Even the matter of women’s rights should be set aside for it is very easy for such arguments to degenerate into arguments about women’s roles and proper place in Indian culture and society. What is important here is that basic human freedoms and rights guaranteed by the Constitution under article 21 were violated. The law of the land was violated and regardless of the broader implications, this violation must first be addressed. To assess whether or not this fundamental issue was addressed one simply need ask whether the discourse would have been any different had the victims been male or juvenile or had the incident occurred in another setting with other motives. If the answer to that is ‘yes’, then quite clearly the question of *fundamental* rights has been side-stepped. By definition, a * fundamental* right would apply to *any* context without any change in its force or relevance. That is not to say questions of culture or women’s empowerment are any less relevant. However one must be clear not to confuse one with the other. There might be many definitions of culture or of the role of women in society and each just as valid as the next. However there can be no negotiation on the matter of one’s fundamental rights guaranteed by the Constitution, for any concession in this regard would mean a breakdown of the very basis of our civil and public spheres of existence. It was quite disturbing then to see how most new reports and analysis of the incident spoke about matters of Indian culture and fundamental rights in the same sentence. To quote Arvind Narrain of the Alternate Law Forum in an article published in the Indian Express: “Indirectly, the Amnesia pub incident challenges the legacy of the women’s movement in India, which has fought for women’s right to autonomy of decision making.” In the same article he says: “When women choose to go a pub, they challenge a patriarchal heritage which says that public spaces are by definition male, and when women wear noodle straps and tight jeans they are saying that their body is nobody’s business but their own, a flat contradiction of the conservative code.”[2] <#_ftn2> Nowhere in the article does he make a definitive argument against the perpetrators on the basis of personal liberties and civil rights except to refer to it in passing. One might have expected differently of someone so closely associated with a law think-tank. The rest of the article is largely in defence of women’s right to express themselves vis-a-vis attire and behaviour. One gets the uneasy feeling that he goes too far to defend feminist identities. When a group of girls dress up in the latest fashion and go to a pub to party, it is usually with the intention of enjoying themselves rather than trying to make a statement that “their body is no nobody’s business but their own.” What if they weren’t saying that? What if they went out with the explicit intention of snubbing cultural sentiments to no greater end? Does that make their right to personal liberties as guaranteed by the Constitution any less legitimate? To some, separating out issues of women’s rights and the right to one’s own definition of culture from the issue of personal liberties might seem an exercise in triviality. Quite the contrary, this is of utmost importance to the case in question. To illustrate, it is like debating the rules of the game and debating the skills of the players. The latter is a matter of personal opinion, the former a defining feature of the game itself. If a team plays badly it is a matter of shame for the supporting side, if it breaks the rules it incurs a penalty. The fact that a large section of the polity and civil society see it fit for women to confine themselves to domestic roles is a matter of shame but when that section takes it into their hands to enforce those beliefs it is a breach of law. True, the two are not mutually exclusive and it is the prevailing beliefs of the majority that gets written into law. But law, once written, stands on its own merit until further debate decides it must be changed. *What Went Wrong in Mangalore?* To fully appreciate the importance of the need to separate out issues one must go into a little history of non-tolerance in the picturesque town of Mangalore. Non-tolerance, particularly in its ugly religious form is not new to Mangalore. In recent years it has been spurred by growing cadre of the religious right. The presence of a BJP government at the helm in Bangalore (the first to install a BJP CM in a South Indian state), has emboldened right wing groups many of whom view this as an opportunity to get back for seeming ill-treatment under previous Congress governments. “On a single telephone call from Muslim ministers, people accused of murder were released in the past,” alleges a Sangh member[3] <#_ftn3>. In September 2008, 18 churches were attacked allegedly by Bajrang Dal cadre [4] <#_ftn4>. Clashes between Hindu and Muslim communities keep erupting sporadically and moral policing in general has been on the rise. Yet, Mangalore remains very cosmopolitan owing in good measure to its high NRI population levels. All three communities, namely Hindus, Muslims and Christians each constitute a sizeable share of the population. Median incomes are of the populace are generally amongst the highest in Karnataka and it is interesting that there is near total absence of permanent slums in the city (although in recent times their number has been growing)[5]<#_ftn5>. The uniqueness of the city stems from the coexistence of modernity and tradition, visually exemplified in the side-by-side space shared by high rises and early twentieth and late nineteenth century bungalows. Traditional Udipi restaurants are as popular Pizza Hut and Subway. Very recently the city boasted of its first multiplex-cum-shopping centre. Big business too has found a home here from Infosys to the 21,000 crore ONGC refinery, bringing with it workers from all over India. This influx of the outside world into the Mangalore social space in recent times has lead to a growing assertion of modern and post-modern identities. The Yakshagana is still a popular source of entertainment but so are the growing number of pubs and discotheques. Most of the schools and colleges in the city still remain all-boys or all-girls (most of them run by the Catholic Church) but hang-outs for mixed groups are increasing. Most of the older theatres have lost out to the newer ones screening the latest Hollywood movies. The social space is in a heightened state of flux and tensions are, understandably high. Many of the older generation see the infiltration of ‘western’ culture with its accompanying themes of equality of the sexes, youth liberation and a general questioning of inconvenient social mores as threatening to rip apart the established social fabric. A childhood friend of my father who still lives in Mangalore and has a son about my age recently remarked how when he was growing up, a man only purchased alcohol on his own money whereas today children who were still in high school had taken to drinking because of the easy availability of money and access bars and pubs. He went on to lament how ‘this whole boyfriend-girlfriend business’ had made him feel uncomfortable to allow his daughter too much free time outside the house. This, in spite of him being well-educated and a highly affluent hotelier in the city. These sentiments of resentment have quickly been seized upon by the political right to strengthen their influence in the city. Pramod Mutalik and his horde of Ram Sainiks, who were literally unknown till the pub incident, are today a household name. The amount of political mileage that the Ram Sena has been able to extract out of the incident, thanks in no small amount to the way it was reported by the media, is simply phenomenal. It was a calculated move on the part of the Ram Sena, who had informed local news agencies about the impending attack. The Sri Ram Sena has largely remained a fringe organization shunned even by the RSS and the rest of the Sangh Parivar. Their attempts at gaining an electoral victory in Karnataka have failed miserably as have their forays into neighbouring Andhra Pradesh[6] <#_ftn6>. Today however, many conservative middle class families exhibit a not-too-subtle admiration for the Sena, who for them has become a guardian of Hindu culture. The horrifying personal rights and liberties violations of the Sena are quickly brushed under the carpet. One is tempted to ask whether these individuals would be equally approving if some organization, more hardliner than the Sena, violated their personal freedoms in the name of [perhaps a more Manu-esque] Hindu culture. But the roots of the current conflict run a lot more deeper. The initiation of land reforms by the Congress government in 1974 quickly isolated the powerful land-holding Bunt community in Mangalore. Then during the Emergency, differences were further entrenched as a result of Congress politics, which sought to divide the polity along caste lines by propping up backward caste communities and minorities. The demolition of the Babri Masjid in 1992 was the final straw. Another source of conflict is the growing levels inequality in the closely knit community. Although it might seem like pop sociology at its best, it is impossible to dismiss the resentment it creates especially among youth of the same age. From there, it is a rather simple matter of connecting wealthy members of the community with decadent lifestyles which can then be targeted on the pretext of ‘defending Indian culture’. Ironically, at higher levels the perpetrators are themselves extremely well-to-do individuals who nevertheless exploit the sentiments of the lower income youth. Thus we see that the causes for conflict in Mangalore society are myriad and often run much below the surface of their manifestations in everyday life. To simply attribute the conflict to one set of individuals or one set of beliefs or a section of the polity is to act with unpardonable naiveté. By indiscriminately lambasting Mutalik and his honchos and by proclaiming the obvious superiority of a liberal social paradigm, civil society might have lost its most important battle yet. The key problematic lies in the failure to separate the issue of personal rights violations from the issue of what constitutes ‘[pub] culture’ in the Mangalore pub incident. As a result a potentially powerful condemnation the former has been reduced to a debate on the latter. This has dangerous implications. To base the personal safety and security of citizens on the question of what constitutes ‘Indian culture’ is bound to be an uneasy security. Worse, it is playing right into the hands of the Sena. Notice how Mutalik, in an interview, did exactly the same thing. He said, and I quote: "The way has been wrong. I apologise for this. The way should not be like that. But it is our right to save our mothers and daughters. Pub-culture is not our culture...Media should highlight and show the aim behind our act to the society,"[7] <#_ftn7> Thus, a matter of ‘Constitution’ is diluted into a matter of ‘culture’. What then are the appropriate fora for a discussion on culture? Are such discussions relevant at all? Here I turn to Sen for a little illumination and critically examine his writings on the subject. *Debating Culture* Debating the idea of ‘culture’ and ‘identity’, when carried out in appropriate fora is as important as any discourse. The simple reason for this is that in a democracy, it is the dominant position in public discourse that gets written into law. Law directs the way we live. Public reasoning empowers the citizens to influence public choice.[8] <#_ftn8> Most importantly when there is an atmosphere conducive to fair and free discussion, social change, as is inevitable, will take place in an inclusive manner that respects everyone’s voice so that those sections of society that might stand to lose do not feel threatened. Change is inevitable – values change, customs and traditions change, religions change and so on. Change is inevitable. Yet *how* we allow this change to take place is largely dependent on the institutions we put in place, particularly the institution of public discourse. Sen’s *Argumentative Indian* makes much of the importance of debate – free and fair – for a just and stable society. Moreover public discussion must be guided by reason – a leitmotif he borrows from John Rawls. However, the problem with such and other rational choice theories is that they overestimate the value that citizens might place on reason, even in advanced societies. To take the case of Mangalore once again, many conservative agendas are bellied by their surface manifestations of aiming to preserve Indian culture. Often these are merely facades for unseen agendas such as controlling political power and maintaining the status quo in class relations. In such cases, it does not matter if ones wins the ‘culture’ war, because culture is merely a facade for deeper agendas. In such cases debate and discussion will only be fruitful if it is accompanied by simultaneous efforts to educate the citizenry about their rights. Inequalities by way of differences of class, caste religion, race etc must be counterbalanced through constitutional mechanisms that gives equal voice to all. Most of the world’s religions, particularly the Semitic ones, stress the virtue of [blind] *belief* over reason. For example in the Gospels, Thomas who refused to believe in Christ’s resurrection until he *actually* saw the Christ was castigated for being a doubter. Modern day religious arguments for placing belief over reason (here I am referring to Christianity) include the argument that ‘God’s ways are not man’s ways’ and so he should not question religion or ‘God works in mysterious ways’ so that one need not always believe solely on the basis of proof and reason. Many arguments for preserving culture begin and end with “this is how we have been living for generations and hence there is no need to change it”. Such arguments are very difficult to engage with and most often end up being exercises in futility. This brings us to a very important question: does the lack of all-round acceptance of *reason* as the guiding force behind public discourse preclude the relevance/legitimacy of such discourse? My answer to this is “No!” Dialogue in itself is a cornerstone of a democracy regardless of whether or not some higher outcome is achieved. Coming back to Mangalore, the dismissive attitude of civil society to Conservative concerns exemplified by the *Pink Chaddi Campaign*, cannot but lead to an isolation of the Conservatives, something that could have disastrous consequences in the long run. Many of those who see themselves as forward, liberal intellectuals are quick to dismiss the claims of tradition as irrational and not meriting engagement with. This, perhaps, is also a criticism that one might make against Amartya Sen. For Sen, argumentation *must* be guided by Reason and lead to a synthesis of different views into a new understanding mutually acceptable by all. Sen fails to stress the importance of argument for argument’s sake. Yet Indian society is filled with argumentation and dialogue between diverse sections of the society on a variety of often inane topics that might not lead to any greater outcome, *but serves to keep people together* and, more importantly, keep the lines of communication open. *Conclusion* Dialogue, debate, discussion, argumentation et al are the cornerstones of a democracy. Yet, in a dialogue one must be careful how one deals with matters that are *constitutional* to our shared social existence – the ‘rules of the game’ – and matters that are of a less fundamental nature. Also, argumentation involving *all* sections of society is desirable regardless of whether such argumentation is guided by Reason, and regardless of the outcomes of such argumentation. ------------------------------ [1] <#_ftnref1> Comment made by women and child development minister Renuka Chowdhury. Reported in the TOI, 21st February, 2009 [2] <#_ftnref2> “Taliban in Saffron”, *Indian Express*, February 7, 2009. [3] <#_ftnref3> *Indian Express*, February 3, 2009. [4] <#_ftnref4> ANI, September 25, 2008. [5] <#_ftnref5> *The Hindu*, Karnataka ed., January 21, 2006 [6] <#_ftnref6> K.R. Sudhakar Rao, *The Hoot*, ‘Making a Mutalik out of a Mole Hill’, February 17th, 2009 [7] <#_ftnref7> Zeenews Bureau, January 27, 2009. [8] <#_ftnref8> *The Argumentative Indian,* pp 14 On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 7:25 PM, bipin wrote: > Dear All, > > > > Regarding Manglore pub attack, don't you think we are giving too much hype > and that way giving un-necessary publicity to irrelevant organization like > ram sena? By this way, we are giving too much publicity and that is what > they want. Such incident are always condemnable, but such incident does > happens (may be some other way and not particular pub attack) in many parts > of India as routine, but since there is no organizations are involved in it > (particularly Hindu organization) doesn't come in the lime light. By > boycotting the things from Karnataka is not the solution. This way you are > increasing unemployment in this economical crisis. Please note that > Karnataka govt. is elected democratically with about 45% vote share and you > are not respecting verdict by this way. > > > > As a Banglorian spirit, it is surprising that you get disturbed with such > an incidence of pub attack and unnecessary wasting your prestigious time in > discussing it. Best way to tackle such incidence is just to ignore it and I > am sure you will not find any repetition of it. By ignoring there moral will > get down. No doubt, according to law the culprit must be punished and this > case is going on that way. But, you know how slow court cases going on in > India. > > > > Since so many days I have been noticing the heavy discussion going on for > this, so I gave my opinion. By the way I am not belonging to any political > party. > > > > thanks > > Bipin Trivedi > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From aliens at dataone.in Sat Feb 28 12:36:24 2009 From: aliens at dataone.in (bipin) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 12:36:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] ignore pub attack References: <000801c998e3$1b4b07f0$0201a8c0@limo> Message-ID: <006601c99973$11944bf0$0201a8c0@limo> Dear Joshua, Thanks for agreeing with my views. thanks Bipin ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Soans To: bipin Cc: sarai-list Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] ignore pub attack I agree with much of what Bipin says. I wrote a paper for a course in my college that is is concerned with the way the media and the public debated the issue. I attach it for your consideration. Also do check out this article in The Hoot, "Making a Muthalik of a Molehill" ( http://www.thehoot.org/web/home/story.php?storyid=3664&mod=1&pg=1§ionId=22&valid=true) My paper follows: The discussion in the public sphere that followed the Amnesia pub incident in Mangalore, particularly in the discussions in the popular media, leaves much to be desired. Images of the hapless girls being physically assaulted no doubt should leave us all indignant. Nevertheless, it is a matter of concern of how the media and others in the public sphere, in an attempt to champion progressive, liberal ideals, resorted to condemning the attack largely in cultural terms, completely side-stepping the issue of what the Constitution and the law had to say on the matter. In doing so, two grievous errors were committed. Firstly, the entire incident was trivialized into a question of what constitutes ‘Indian’ culture and who had the right to enforce it. As it is, (and as I will show) this was not merely a matter of culture; there were other factors at play. But most importantly, this allowed the Sena and their sympathizers to side-step question of the criminality of their act and instead turn it into a debate about the definition of culture, a matter so woolly and problematic, it is best left alone. Secondly, the rabidly liberal media did all it could to portray the cultural conservatives as nut-cases. This agenda was palpable in the Big Fight talk show on NDTV. It also becomes obvious when politicians throw around phrases like ‘Talibanization of Mangalore’[1]. Everyone with culturally conservative views was equated with hoodlums who would beat up women in the name of culture without a qualm. This stance of the media quickly isolated the conservatives who now have no reason to engage in a discourse via the popular media. An interesting manifestation of this sentiment is that under every pro-liberal reporting of the incident online, the comments pages are usually filled with anti-liberal sloganeering. In light of this incident, I will explore in the following essay, the importance of a layered, multidimensional approach to a discussion that follows. I will also re-examine the emphasis that Sen places on the role of Reason in public debates and his implicit stress on the synthesis of outcomes in a dialogue. *** The violence at the Amnesia pub in Mangalore on the 24th of January presents a lot of fodder for discussion on a number of themes such as culture, identity and discursive practices. There is however yet another aspect to the incident which, although to my understanding should have been at the forefront of the discussion was either entirely absent or merely given a passing mention. This is the question of what the constitution and the law has to say on the matter. There are several layers of understanding to the incident and the subsequent verbal jousting that took place in civil society and it is important to carefully pry apart each layer and not confuse one with the other. At the most immediate level is the violation of personal rights and liberties, embodied in the brutal physical assault on the women and those men who tried to offer them protection. At this level it is inconsequential whether or not the women’s actions were outside the bounds of Indian culture. It is inconsequential whether women offered men soma in some ancient Hindu texts. Even the matter of women’s rights should be set aside for it is very easy for such arguments to degenerate into arguments about women’s roles and proper place in Indian culture and society. What is important here is that basic human freedoms and rights guaranteed by the Constitution under article 21 were violated. The law of the land was violated and regardless of the broader implications, this violation must first be addressed. To assess whether or not this fundamental issue was addressed one simply need ask whether the discourse would have been any different had the victims been male or juvenile or had the incident occurred in another setting with other motives. If the answer to that is ‘yes’, then quite clearly the question of fundamental rights has been side-stepped. By definition, a fundamental right would apply to any context without any change in its force or relevance. That is not to say questions of culture or women’s empowerment are any less relevant. However one must be clear not to confuse one with the other. There might be many definitions of culture or of the role of women in society and each just as valid as the next. However there can be no negotiation on the matter of one’s fundamental rights guaranteed by the Constitution, for any concession in this regard would mean a breakdown of the very basis of our civil and public spheres of existence. It was quite disturbing then to see how most new reports and analysis of the incident spoke about matters of Indian culture and fundamental rights in the same sentence. To quote Arvind Narrain of the Alternate Law Forum in an article published in the Indian Express: “Indirectly, the Amnesia pub incident challenges the legacy of the women’s movement in India, which has fought for women’s right to autonomy of decision making.” In the same article he says: “When women choose to go a pub, they challenge a patriarchal heritage which says that public spaces are by definition male, and when women wear noodle straps and tight jeans they are saying that their body is nobody’s business but their own, a flat contradiction of the conservative code.”[2] Nowhere in the article does he make a definitive argument against the perpetrators on the basis of personal liberties and civil rights except to refer to it in passing. One might have expected differently of someone so closely associated with a law think-tank. The rest of the article is largely in defence of women’s right to express themselves vis-a-vis attire and behaviour. One gets the uneasy feeling that he goes too far to defend feminist identities. When a group of girls dress up in the latest fashion and go to a pub to party, it is usually with the intention of enjoying themselves rather than trying to make a statement that “their body is no nobody’s business but their own.” What if they weren’t saying that? What if they went out with the explicit intention of snubbing cultural sentiments to no greater end? Does that make their right to personal liberties as guaranteed by the Constitution any less legitimate? To some, separating out issues of women’s rights and the right to one’s own definition of culture from the issue of personal liberties might seem an exercise in triviality. Quite the contrary, this is of utmost importance to the case in question. To illustrate, it is like debating the rules of the game and debating the skills of the players. The latter is a matter of personal opinion, the former a defining feature of the game itself. If a team plays badly it is a matter of shame for the supporting side, if it breaks the rules it incurs a penalty. The fact that a large section of the polity and civil society see it fit for women to confine themselves to domestic roles is a matter of shame but when that section takes it into their hands to enforce those beliefs it is a breach of law. True, the two are not mutually exclusive and it is the prevailing beliefs of the majority that gets written into law. But law, once written, stands on its own merit until further debate decides it must be changed. What Went Wrong in Mangalore? To fully appreciate the importance of the need to separate out issues one must go into a little history of non-tolerance in the picturesque town of Mangalore.. Non-tolerance, particularly in its ugly religious form is not new to Mangalore. In recent years it has been spurred by growing cadre of the religious right.. The presence of a BJP government at the helm in Bangalore (the first to install a BJP CM in a South Indian state), has emboldened right wing groups many of whom view this as an opportunity to get back for seeming ill-treatment under previous Congress governments. “On a single telephone call from Muslim ministers, people accused of murder were released in the past,” alleges a Sangh member[3]. In September 2008, 18 churches were attacked allegedly by Bajrang Dal cadre[4]. Clashes between Hindu and Muslim communities keep erupting sporadically and moral policing in general has been on the rise. Yet, Mangalore remains very cosmopolitan owing in good measure to its high NRI population levels. All three communities, namely Hindus, Muslims and Christians each constitute a sizeable share of the population. Median incomes are of the populace are generally amongst the highest in Karnataka and it is interesting that there is near total absence of permanent slums in the city (although in recent times their number has been growing)[5]. The uniqueness of the city stems from the coexistence of modernity and tradition, visually exemplified in the side-by-side space shared by high rises and early twentieth and late nineteenth century bungalows. Traditional Udipi restaurants are as popular Pizza Hut and Subway. Very recently the city boasted of its first multiplex-cum-shopping centre. Big business too has found a home here from Infosys to the 21,000 crore ONGC refinery, bringing with it workers from all over India. This influx of the outside world into the Mangalore social space in recent times has lead to a growing assertion of modern and post-modern identities. The Yakshagana is still a popular source of entertainment but so are the growing number of pubs and discotheques. Most of the schools and colleges in the city still remain all-boys or all-girls (most of them run by the Catholic Church) but hang-outs for mixed groups are increasing. Most of the older theatres have lost out to the newer ones screening the latest Hollywood movies. The social space is in a heightened state of flux and tensions are, understandably high. Many of the older generation see the infiltration of ‘western’ culture with its accompanying themes of equality of the sexes, youth liberation and a general questioning of inconvenient social mores as threatening to rip apart the established social fabric. A childhood friend of my father who still lives in Mangalore and has a son about my age recently remarked how when he was growing up, a man only purchased alcohol on his own money whereas today children who were still in high school had taken to drinking because of the easy availability of money and access bars and pubs. He went on to lament how ‘this whole boyfriend-girlfriend business’ had made him feel uncomfortable to allow his daughter too much free time outside the house. This, in spite of him being well-educated and a highly affluent hotelier in the city. These sentiments of resentment have quickly been seized upon by the political right to strengthen their influence in the city. Pramod Mutalik and his horde of Ram Sainiks, who were literally unknown till the pub incident, are today a household name. The amount of political mileage that the Ram Sena has been able to extract out of the incident, thanks in no small amount to the way it was reported by the media, is simply phenomenal. It was a calculated move on the part of the Ram Sena, who had informed local news agencies about the impending attack. The Sri Ram Sena has largely remained a fringe organization shunned even by the RSS and the rest of the Sangh Parivar. Their attempts at gaining an electoral victory in Karnataka have failed miserably as have their forays into neighbouring Andhra Pradesh[6]. Today however, many conservative middle class families exhibit a not-too-subtle admiration for the Sena, who for them has become a guardian of Hindu culture. The horrifying personal rights and liberties violations of the Sena are quickly brushed under the carpet. One is tempted to ask whether these individuals would be equally approving if some organization, more hardliner than the Sena, violated their personal freedoms in the name of [perhaps a more Manu-esque] Hindu culture. But the roots of the current conflict run a lot more deeper. The initiation of land reforms by the Congress government in 1974 quickly isolated the powerful land-holding Bunt community in Mangalore. Then during the Emergency, differences were further entrenched as a result of Congress politics, which sought to divide the polity along caste lines by propping up backward caste communities and minorities. The demolition of the Babri Masjid in 1992 was the final straw. Another source of conflict is the growing levels inequality in the closely knit community. Although it might seem like pop sociology at its best, it is impossible to dismiss the resentment it creates especially among youth of the same age. From there, it is a rather simple matter of connecting wealthy members of the community with decadent lifestyles which can then be targeted on the pretext of ‘defending Indian culture’. Ironically, at higher levels the perpetrators are themselves extremely well-to-do individuals who nevertheless exploit the sentiments of the lower income youth. Thus we see that the causes for conflict in Mangalore society are myriad and often run much below the surface of their manifestations in everyday life. To simply attribute the conflict to one set of individuals or one set of beliefs or a section of the polity is to act with unpardonable naiveté. By indiscriminately lambasting Mutalik and his honchos and by proclaiming the obvious superiority of a liberal social paradigm, civil society might have lost its most important battle yet. The key problematic lies in the failure to separate the issue of personal rights violations from the issue of what constitutes ‘[pub] culture’ in the Mangalore pub incident. As a result a potentially powerful condemnation the former has been reduced to a debate on the latter. This has dangerous implications. To base the personal safety and security of citizens on the question of what constitutes ‘Indian culture’ is bound to be an uneasy security. Worse, it is playing right into the hands of the Sena. Notice how Mutalik, in an interview, did exactly the same thing. He said, and I quote: "The way has been wrong. I apologise for this. The way should not be like that. But it is our right to save our mothers and daughters. Pub-culture is not our culture...Media should highlight and show the aim behind our act to the society,"[7] Thus, a matter of ‘Constitution’ is diluted into a matter of ‘culture’. What then are the appropriate fora for a discussion on culture? Are such discussions relevant at all? Here I turn to Sen for a little illumination and critically examine his writings on the subject. Debating Culture Debating the idea of ‘culture’ and ‘identity’, when carried out in appropriate fora is as important as any discourse. The simple reason for this is that in a democracy, it is the dominant position in public discourse that gets written into law. Law directs the way we live. Public reasoning empowers the citizens to influence public choice.[8] Most importantly when there is an atmosphere conducive to fair and free discussion, social change, as is inevitable, will take place in an inclusive manner that respects everyone’s voice so that those sections of society that might stand to lose do not feel threatened. Change is inevitable – values change, customs and traditions change, religions change and so on. Change is inevitable. Yet how we allow this change to take place is largely dependent on the institutions we put in place, particularly the institution of public discourse. Sen’s Argumentative Indian makes much of the importance of debate – free and fair – for a just and stable society. Moreover public discussion must be guided by reason – a leitmotif he borrows from John Rawls. However, the problem with such and other rational choice theories is that they overestimate the value that citizens might place on reason, even in advanced societies. To take the case of Mangalore once again, many conservative agendas are bellied by their surface manifestations of aiming to preserve Indian culture. Often these are merely facades for unseen agendas such as controlling political power and maintaining the status quo in class relations. In such cases, it does not matter if ones wins the ‘culture’ war, because culture is merely a facade for deeper agendas. In such cases debate and discussion will only be fruitful if it is accompanied by simultaneous efforts to educate the citizenry about their rights. Inequalities by way of differences of class, caste religion, race etc must be counterbalanced through constitutional mechanisms that gives equal voice to all. Most of the world’s religions, particularly the Semitic ones, stress the virtue of [blind] belief over reason. For example in the Gospels, Thomas who refused to believe in Christ’s resurrection until he actually saw the Christ was castigated for being a doubter. Modern day religious arguments for placing belief over reason (here I am referring to Christianity) include the argument that ‘God’s ways are not man’s ways’ and so he should not question religion or ‘God works in mysterious ways’ so that one need not always believe solely on the basis of proof and reason. Many arguments for preserving culture begin and end with “this is how we have been living for generations and hence there is no need to change it”. Such arguments are very difficult to engage with and most often end up being exercises in futility. This brings us to a very important question: does the lack of all-round acceptance of reason as the guiding force behind public discourse preclude the relevance/legitimacy of such discourse? My answer to this is “No!” Dialogue in itself is a cornerstone of a democracy regardless of whether or not some higher outcome is achieved. Coming back to Mangalore, the dismissive attitude of civil society to Conservative concerns exemplified by the Pink Chaddi Campaign, cannot but lead to an isolation of the Conservatives, something that could have disastrous consequences in the long run. Many of those who see themselves as forward, liberal intellectuals are quick to dismiss the claims of tradition as irrational and not meriting engagement with. This, perhaps, is also a criticism that one might make against Amartya Sen. For Sen, argumentation must be guided by Reason and lead to a synthesis of different views into a new understanding mutually acceptable by all. Sen fails to stress the importance of argument for argument’s sake. Yet Indian society is filled with argumentation and dialogue between diverse sections of the society on a variety of often inane topics that might not lead to any greater outcome, but serves to keep people together and, more importantly, keep the lines of communication open. Conclusion Dialogue, debate, discussion, argumentation et al are the cornerstones of a democracy.. Yet, in a dialogue one must be careful how one deals with matters that are constitutional to our shared social existence – the ‘rules of the game’ – and matters that are of a less fundamental nature. Also, argumentation involving all sections of society is desirable regardless of whether such argumentation is guided by Reason, and regardless of the outcomes of such argumentation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [1] Comment made by women and child development minister Renuka Chowdhury. Reported in the TOI, 21st February, 2009 [2] “Taliban in Saffron”, Indian Express, February 7, 2009. [3] Indian Express, February 3, 2009. [4] ANI, September 25, 2008. [5] The Hindu, Karnataka ed., January 21, 2006 [6] K.R. Sudhakar Rao, The Hoot, ‘Making a Mutalik out of a Mole Hill’, February 17th, 2009 [7] Zeenews Bureau, January 27, 2009. [8] The Argumentative Indian, pp 14 On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 7:25 PM, bipin wrote: Dear All, Regarding Manglore pub attack, don't you think we are giving too much hype and that way giving un-necessary publicity to irrelevant organization like ram sena? By this way, we are giving too much publicity and that is what they want. Such incident are always condemnable, but such incident does happens (may be some other way and not particular pub attack) in many parts of India as routine, but since there is no organizations are involved in it (particularly Hindu organization) doesn't come in the lime light. By boycotting the things from Karnataka is not the solution. This way you are increasing unemployment in this economical crisis. Please note that Karnataka govt. is elected democratically with about 45% vote share and you are not respecting verdict by this way. As a Banglorian spirit, it is surprising that you get disturbed with such an incidence of pub attack and unnecessary wasting your prestigious time in discussing it. Best way to tackle such incidence is just to ignore it and I am sure you will not find any repetition of it. By ignoring there moral will get down. No doubt, according to law the culprit must be punished and this case is going on that way. But, you know how slow court cases going on in India. Since so many days I have been noticing the heavy discussion going on for this, so I gave my opinion. By the way I am not belonging to any political party. thanks Bipin Trivedi _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From monica at sarai.net Wed Feb 25 10:25:04 2009 From: monica at sarai.net (Monica Narula) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 10:25:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] IDPA Awards Message-ID: <0E9774C1-EA4B-4A17-8C15-A20546E43E42@sarai.net> > Enter Your Films For IDPA-ONGC AWARD FOR BEST FILM ON ENVIRONMENT (a > part of Annual IDPA Awards) > > IDPA AWARDS FOR EXCELLENCE 2008 > ELIGIBILITY & RULES > > 1. Any film or video produced in India between 1st July 2007 and > 31st December 2008, of any format or length unless otherwise > specified is eligible for entry. Entries to the Director’s Showcase > must have been produced in India anytime after the > 1st of July 2007. There is no > cut-off date for this category. > > 2. The last date for receipt of entries is 15th February 2009. 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Now, here is a DVD that explores the sacred music, dance and rituals of the* jogtis* and* jogtas*,* devidasis * and* devidasas*, and others who have dedicated themselves to the goddess and attempts to balance this view. The focus here is on the goddess's unique musical instruments and the ritual forms essential to her worship. Police threats to confiscate her musical instruments, and protest songs sung within the tradition against the dedication of children, attest to contemporary conflicts within the worship and the human rights issues at stake. Amy Catlin-Jairazbhoy and Nazir Ali Jairazbhoy are professors of Ethnomusicology at the University of California, Los Angeles. Nazir, a native of Mumbai, who went to Doon School, wrote a Ph.D. dissertation that has become the classic book,* The Ragas of North Indian Music: Their Structure and Evolution*. Amy is a graduate of Vassar College and Yale University, and received her Ph.D. from Brown University, after two years spent in Madras researching her dissertation on Carnatic music. Both are internationally recognized and widely published in the fields of classical and non-classical musics. This is a* CHAURAHA* presentation. -- Amy Catlin-Jairazbhoy, Ph.D. Associate Professor (Visiting) Ethnomusicology Department UCLA Box 165706 Los Angeles CA 90095 (310) 206-3033 http://www.ethnomusic.ucla.edu/people/catlin.htm -- OISHIK SIRCAR oishiksircar at gmail.com oishik.sircar at utoronto.ca From sananth99 at gmail.com Fri Feb 27 14:58:17 2009 From: sananth99 at gmail.com (Ananth S) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 14:58:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Recession fuels anger against wealth Message-ID: <70c502d20902270128w7fabe938ub8003c989d876cd6@mail.gmail.com> Arsonists Torch Berlin Porsches, BMWs as Recession Fuels Anger By Brett Neely http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aoFmLZ.4beXE&refer=home Feb. 27 (Bloomberg) -- When Berlin resident Simone Klostermann returned from vacation and couldn’t find her Mercedes SLK, she thought it had been towed. Police told her the 35,000- euro ($45,000) car had been torched. “They’d squirted something flammable into the car’s engine block in the gap between the windshield and the hood,” said Klostermann. “The engine was completely destroyed.” The 34-year-old’s experience isn’t unique in the German capital. At least 29 vehicles were destroyed in arson attacks this year, most of them luxury cars, according to police. The number is already about 30 percent of the total for 2008. The latest to go up in flames was a Porsche, on Feb. 14, two days after a Mercedes was set alight in a public car park. While youths in Athens protest by throwing Molotov cocktails, in Paris by toppling barricades, and in Budapest by hurling eggs at politicians, protesters in Berlin rage at their economic plight by targeting the most expensive cars -- symbols of German wealth and power. A group calling itself BMW -- the initials stand for Movement for Militant Resistance in German -- has claimed responsibility for several attacks in left-wing magazines and Web sites, police spokesman Bernhard Schodrowski said. One-third of the incidents are classed as “political,” prompting officers to assign a special unit to investigate, Schodrowski said. No arrests have been made. Schodrowski attributed the arson to “a protest against the world economy and rising rents.” ‘Quick to Attack’ German unemployment began to rise last November after almost three years of declines. Deutsche Bank AG Chief Economist Norbert Walter predicts the German economy, Europe’s biggest, may shrink by more than 5 percent this year. The worst recession since World War II is fueling anger among youths across Europe who “perceive their future as rather precarious,” said Margit Mayer, a politics professor at Berlin’s Free University. “Whether you look at the Berlin events or these anarchist groups in other European cities and countries, they are all making reference to the deepening economic crisis and how the various governments are dealing with them,” said Mayer, a specialist in urban social and protest movements. Some groups are “very quick to attack whoever they can make out as responsible for having robbed them of decent life prospects,” according to Mayer. The Berlin car burnings have been concentrated in up-and- coming neighborhoods such as Prenzlauer Berg, where Klostermann’s car was destroyed in May. ‘Don’t Move in Here’ There, new housing and building redevelopments are pushing out the squatter scene that flourished after East and West Berlin were reunited in 1990, said Andrej Holm, a sociologist at Goethe University in Frankfurt who has studied the change. Rents that were about half the city average 10 years ago are now about 40 percent above the average, and the car attacks are an attempt to drive wealthy newcomers away, Holm said. “It means: ‘rich people, don’t move in here -- your cars will be trashed, we don’t want you here’,” he said. While Prenzlauer Berg and other central neighborhoods such as Friedrichshain and Kreuzberg are thriving, at least in parts, Berlin as a whole remains Germany’s “subsidy capital” almost 20 years after the Berlin Wall fell, said Tobias Just, a real-estate economist with Deutsche Bank in Frankfurt. Unemployment, at 14.1 percent in February, is almost double the national average. Oliver Kappelle, who moved with his wife and two children to Friedrichshain, is unfazed by the perceived threat. One night last month, Kappelle came across a “heap of junk that used to be a Porsche the night before,” he said. “I was just relieved that he didn’t park in the empty space behind me.” Baader-Meinhof Berlin has a history of political protest, with anarchist demonstrators regularly clashing with police on the streets of Kreuzberg during May 1 marches. Kreuzberg, which abutted the Berlin Wall, is represented in parliament by the Green Party’s Hans-Christian Stroebele, a former lawyer who defended members of the Baader-Meinhof gang in court. Likewise, arson attacks on cars are not new: a Web site, “Burning Cars,” was set up to track the incidents in May 2007, one month before a summit in the northern German resort of Heiligendamm of the Group of Eight industrialized nations. There have been 290 attacks on cars since then, among them 55 Mercedes and 29 BMWs damaged or destroyed by fire, the site records. “I wouldn’t advise someone to park their Porsche on the street” in Kreuzberg, Berlin police commissioner Dieter Glietsch told the Taz newspaper in June last year. As the frequency of attacks increases, Klostermann, a company manager who has lived in Prenzlauer Berg for 12 years, remains unbowed. “I would never want to be regarded as someone who can be driven out of a place where I enjoy living,” she said.