From c.anupam at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 00:16:29 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 00:16:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: <4eab87870907310956n772d29acuf8ccda5710a3454f@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00907310144vbcb4d37sf40d6bd434ffc18@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310253lf8c9712t92a72c6600a0cfcd@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310510m7aab8f63q292439a5f0582ea1@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310517w140a20b5r4751e57b4a777bb3@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310535n49ce0d17kc91f83692d9dfb4@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310539j6dc44ff1s99591ea4a60e7085@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310546w12631d90teb9c8ae491c9f0cb@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907310956n772d29acuf8ccda5710a3454f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907311146o1cf1eecak514d76d9f18537e2@mail.gmail.com> Dear Murli, I am really sorry to say the stories you have been posting about Murshidabad are far from true. It is the perspective of someone who has a sectarian understanding of the problem. You generalised the gang rivalry in the region to the slaying of the hindus. The problem here lies in the fact in the process of strenghtening your sectarian identity you tend to accomodate a lot of devaints who could have otherwise found some gainful employment. Here there were two agrarian gangs fighting for resources like terrorism, manipulation and worst of all, lure of power with the help of fear and threats. I refuse to be manipulated. It is a personal protest demanding a fair play. >From very close quarters, I have seen the sectarian identity functioning seditiously, poisoning minds which could have done better than what they are doing. I dont want my brethren to be blinded by the propaganda of fear from the state's side or from gun runners. Insecurity drives people crazy. A nation full of people, with their aspirations cannot be cheated to perform such a heinous crime killing or plundering or looting. They inherently want fair play although when manipulated, they needed to be told that there is no point in worrying about who you are -- it is about what you are doing. Sir, nation building is not an easy task. Do you think in a homogenous society (as you speak for the Hindu community) you can stop the individual aspirations? Lets say as a reaction you chased out devaints of all kinds, and only your kinds exist, would you be able to control subversion? You cannot afford to be unfair here. I wont tell you about the multi-sectarian society and benefits that it brings. Because you know what it means and since as a reaction, you have also consciously chosen to deviate from such a possibility of multi racial or sectarian society. But whether should i respect this deviance at the cost of accomodating all the wrong doings is something that needs a philosophical understanding. A historical and a subjective (i know this word is likely displease several readers here) understanding always accomodates conflicts as the prime reason for all creations sectarian or otherwise (from small panchyats, to the demand for new railway stations to demand for a seperate state hood). These reactions are provokative and instead of painful task of solving these issues in light of rational solutions, it proposes an easier victory over such ailments -- by destruction. It is from here, I said: "I would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's an assurance to you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas here I will keep on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your claims." You are most welcome to critique in the same rational, peaceful way not as someone shouting "kill them all" in a discussion forums as this. Killing me is not enough Sir. - with warm regards Anupam On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Murali V wrote: > And I shall also try to counter every one of your claims. > Regards, > V Murali > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:16 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > >> Dear Rajen >> You can go on and be sectarian. The moderator in this reader's list doesnt >> seem to have a problem. And i respect your democratic rights sir that the >> constitution guarantees you. I am just calling for a boycott of such >> agendas. >> I would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's an >> assurance >> to you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas here I will >> keep on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your claims. Take >> my word for that. >> Best wishes >> Anupam >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > sword is having both sides sharp.Your thoughts apply to all of us, as we >> > post. >> > >> > Regards, >> > Rajen. >> > >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:05 PM, anupam chakravartty < >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: >> > >> >> Dear Rajen >> >> why are u pointing people, naming them? has anybody named you rajen. i >> >> guess >> >> they (as in Taha and Javed) speak of it because you keep on questioning >> >> them >> >> pinpointing them all the time, makign generic statements against a >> >> community >> >> is something that you guys keep doing. i will never forget what you >> said >> >> to >> >> meera rizvi (your surname suggest). first clean up your act then point >> out >> >> others >> >> -anupam >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < >> >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> > Dear Anupam jee, >> >> > who owns the hindu religion, it i universal way of life, so also >> the >> >> > islam, but why a taha, a javed speak for it, do they own islam.?If >> any >> >> of us >> >> > talk of ills our seculars have ready question that we do not speak >> for >> >> > hindu, but they join to defend a husain for his right to express art >> in >> >> > deities in his style, but no right to art for his own faith.? Art is >> >> > heartless when it is just art, but only commerce. >> >> > >> >> > Regards, >> >> > >> >> > Rajen. >> >> > >> >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:40 PM, anupam chakravartty < >> >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> Dear Rajen, >> >> >> My position has been same against all kinds of religious extremism. >> >> along >> >> >> with several other list members have been opposed to these issues. >> if u >> >> >> can >> >> >> show me one instance which according to you contradicts my earlier >> >> >> position, >> >> >> then i would like withdraw this boycott call from my side. I wish to >> >> argue >> >> >> no more on this. i know you do not own hindu religion so my advice >> is >> >> that >> >> >> u >> >> >> should assuming this self styled of this religion and criticise >> others. >> >> i >> >> >> do >> >> >> not expect a change of heart from u but in case if that happens it >> is >> >> also >> >> >> welcome. >> >> >> - best wishes >> >> >> anupam >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Rakesh Iyer < >> rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear all >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I just read a story of the Panchatantra, and it seems to resonate >> >> with >> >> >> what >> >> >> > one of my friends told yesterday: 'People change, they do, but >> don't >> >> >> force >> >> >> > them to change. They take it at their ego' >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Here's hoping for that change one day from Murali ji, Rajen ji, >> and >> >> >> others >> >> >> > of their like. And no more replies asking them to change or >> >> criticizing >> >> >> > them. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Regards >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Rakesh >> >> >> > >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Rajen. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Rajen. >> > >> > >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > From pheeta.ram at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 02:35:16 2009 From: pheeta.ram at gmail.com (Pheeta Ram) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 02:35:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? Message-ID: <5bedab660907311405v3c53908h68b0217e7f0d5c0e@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, I know this won't go down well with most of you but here it is: Religions are the basic source of strife and as long as there will be religions (belief in this God and that) there will be such hostilities. By professing one religion i simultaneously create an other being who, by inference, is either follower of some religion or a pagan. The basic contradiction in all religions is that despite their moral-ethical discourse regarding oneness of all humanity they are the principal segregators. All the saints who have walked the earth deluded themselves with such fancies. Religion is not just a system of belief but also an economy. We depend a lot upon our religious capital for our subsistance. A person who professes to be a member of certain community (primarily religious) also depends upon it as a kind of umbilical cord and draws sucour. By now earth has soaked so much blood because of religious strifes that sometimes i wonder isn't it time to abandon all religious badges and create a ethical moral code drawn from all the religions and start believing in one community: that is Human. I think we need to believe in our brother next door and one walking on the street or the worker on a Metro site. We need to believe that for the survival of humanity we need to believe in each other and not on some transcendental agency. I wonder why we haven't learnt from our history. The primary reason why we have failed terribly in creating a community of all human beings that walk the earth is because we are afraid. Afraid to believe in somebody who is in front of us in flesh and blood. I remember a man sitting in Blue Line who was highly uncomfortable when a profusely sweating migrant labourer got in and found a seat, to his great relief, by his side. It is certain that he didn't know of the religion of that worker but the stench of his sweat and his dirty clothes were enough for him to get up and keep standing for the rest of his journey. I wonder when we have such intolerence for a 'fellow' human beings' honest sweat how would we ever begin even thinking about such a Human community. The perils that face the earth now are reasons enough that we start believing in each other and work for the future of humanity by shunning all our sectarian tags. But strangely we are busy inventing/refurbishing new messiah who would deliver us from the mess that we have ourselves created on this earth. I wonder what stops us from creating a new religion of Humanity. The advice that comes from scholarly circles regarding all this religious intolerance is : Tolerance! That we need to tolerate each other. Tolerance is another form of fascism or nazism, what ever. I won't agree with substituting the word toleracne with "respect" or "compassion". Why tolerate the very root of strife in the first place. And yet, sadly, things are not as simple as that. But a time comes when we have to call a spade a spade. We have to shun God to love human beings. There is no other way. Just visualize the situation: Two guys are standing in a big stadium in front of each other, just a metre apart but with their faces 'heaven'wards. Why are they afraid to see each other directly. Why does the need arise to travel so many light years and then come to ones brother standing just a meter away. I know it is plain foolishness to ask somebody whose bread and butter depends upon religion to shun it and enter the fold of Humanity where people believe in people and work with mutual responsibility. But we need neo-believers who are foolish enough to believe in such a possibility and are ready to work for it. It's a long revolution but a possible one. But, the roadblocks are mighty hard to surpass. Take for instance my case: I have a primary school in my neighbourhood, a government one. And every morning even before i have got up their assembly begins and the chants of sacred Hindu mantras begin. All this atma and parmatma stuff. Though i don't dispute the sense inherent in the prayer yet aren't we or rather the supposedly and proffessedly secular government entering into the business of 'mass conversion'. When i have all these religious prayers embedded into my consciousness right from my childhood can you imagine how much i would have to suffer to convert back to the religion of humanity if i convert at all and not turn into some religious fanatic. Less said of the schools run by one religion or the other the better. Though the proposal seems indecent yet i think there are madmen enough to believe in this long long revolution. From taraprakash at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 02:48:20 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:18:20 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS References: <341380d00907310144vbcb4d37sf40d6bd434ffc18@mail.gmail.com><7271ec560907310253lf8c9712t92a72c6600a0cfcd@mail.gmail.com><341380d00907310510m7aab8f63q292439a5f0582ea1@mail.gmail.com><7271ec560907310517w140a20b5r4751e57b4a777bb3@mail.gmail.com><341380d00907310535n49ce0d17kc91f83692d9dfb4@mail.gmail.com><7271ec560907310539j6dc44ff1s99591ea4a60e7085@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310546w12631d90teb9c8ae491c9f0cb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Anupam and all. I am not the moderator but would still like to chime in. I understand that Monika is pretty busy and all of must appreciate the hard task it takes to run and sustain such a high traffick list. I'd like to remind that the list is not moderated in the real sense of the word. Anybody is allowed to boycott an agenda or all the agendas if they wish so. The option of using the delete key on your computer or using message filters have been often suggested earlier here. So boycott anyone, anything you like but writing 3 4 messages just to reitterate do not help anyone. Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "anupam chakravartty" To: "sarai list" Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:46 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS > Dear Rajen > You can go on and be sectarian. The moderator in this reader's list doesnt > seem to have a problem. And i respect your democratic rights sir that the > constitution guarantees you. I am just calling for a boycott of such > agendas. > I would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's an > assurance > to you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas here I will > keep on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your claims. Take > my word for that. > Best wishes > Anupam > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < > rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > >> sword is having both sides sharp.Your thoughts apply to all of us, as we >> post. >> >> Regards, >> Rajen. >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:05 PM, anupam chakravartty >> wrote: >> >>> Dear Rajen >>> why are u pointing people, naming them? has anybody named you rajen. i >>> guess >>> they (as in Taha and Javed) speak of it because you keep on questioning >>> them >>> pinpointing them all the time, makign generic statements against a >>> community >>> is something that you guys keep doing. i will never forget what you said >>> to >>> meera rizvi (your surname suggest). first clean up your act then point >>> out >>> others >>> -anupam >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < >>> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> > Dear Anupam jee, >>> > who owns the hindu religion, it i universal way of life, so also >>> > the >>> > islam, but why a taha, a javed speak for it, do they own islam.?If any >>> of us >>> > talk of ills our seculars have ready question that we do not speak for >>> > hindu, but they join to defend a husain for his right to express art >>> > in >>> > deities in his style, but no right to art for his own faith.? Art is >>> > heartless when it is just art, but only commerce. >>> > >>> > Regards, >>> > >>> > Rajen. >>> > >>> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:40 PM, anupam chakravartty < >>> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: >>> > >>> >> Dear Rajen, >>> >> My position has been same against all kinds of religious extremism. >>> along >>> >> with several other list members have been opposed to these issues. if >>> >> u >>> >> can >>> >> show me one instance which according to you contradicts my earlier >>> >> position, >>> >> then i would like withdraw this boycott call from my side. I wish to >>> argue >>> >> no more on this. i know you do not own hindu religion so my advice is >>> that >>> >> u >>> >> should assuming this self styled of this religion and criticise >>> >> others. >>> i >>> >> do >>> >> not expect a change of heart from u but in case if that happens it is >>> also >>> >> welcome. >>> >> - best wishes >>> >> anupam >>> >> >>> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Rakesh Iyer >>> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> > Dear all >>> >> > >>> >> > I just read a story of the Panchatantra, and it seems to resonate >>> with >>> >> what >>> >> > one of my friends told yesterday: 'People change, they do, but >>> >> > don't >>> >> force >>> >> > them to change. They take it at their ego' >>> >> > >>> >> > Here's hoping for that change one day from Murali ji, Rajen ji, and >>> >> others >>> >> > of their like. And no more replies asking them to change or >>> criticizing >>> >> > them. >>> >> > >>> >> > Regards >>> >> > >>> >> > Rakesh >>> >> > >>> >> _________________________________________ >>> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> >> Critiques & Collaborations >>> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> >> subscribe in the subject header. >>> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Rajen. >>> > >>> > >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Rajen. >> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pheeta.ram at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 03:16:19 2009 From: pheeta.ram at gmail.com (Pheeta Ram) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 03:16:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: References: <341380d00907310144vbcb4d37sf40d6bd434ffc18@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310253lf8c9712t92a72c6600a0cfcd@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310510m7aab8f63q292439a5f0582ea1@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310517w140a20b5r4751e57b4a777bb3@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310535n49ce0d17kc91f83692d9dfb4@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310539j6dc44ff1s99591ea4a60e7085@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310546w12631d90teb9c8ae491c9f0cb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5bedab660907311446n22ad9c12h243a1df0f8955de2@mail.gmail.com> Why just boycott the sectarian agendas, why not boycott the "sects" themselves. Why do we keep on deluding ourselves by believing in such fantacies like some idyllic place or state where people of all religious sects would live peacefully? We have only two options: either we learn to live with "communal" strive that has become the order of the day or make a complete break with all our past that segregates us and begin anew. Its a tall order we know but nevertheless worth aspiring for. Atleast its better than the current non-sense of just "boycotting the sectarian agendas". You can't rationalise with a fanatic who has his own personal reasons to be so. If i am brought up on a daily diet of RSS school text books and visit temple every evening and morning who are you to tell me that Hindus are not persecuted in their own country. My sole existence is based on my sectarian "agenda", if i don't profess it i am nothing. Let me tell these fanatics: tell your little children to go and kill the children of people of other sects. Hand them swords and tell them to cut the first playmate of other sect they find and quent your thirst. I am sure you fanatics won't; we shudder at such a scenario. But let me assure you, if you have such a dirty mind however hard you might try you won't be able to keep these poisonous ideas away from your children. They are being fed such ideas in their school itself, in small doses without their realizing as to what is being done to them in the name of "secular" education. let me assure you either we have to banish God from this earth and all the attending heavenly spheres or we won't find any space even on mars. There are enough people on earth who have nothing to loose and are just in search for a slight hint that could give their rudderless life a meaning and what better meaning than to do something for God: KILL!!! KILL!!! KILL!!! Be-aware. Best On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 2:48 AM, taraprakash wrote: > Dear Anupam and all. I am not the moderator but would still like to chime > in. I understand that Monika is pretty busy and all of must appreciate the > hard task it takes to run and sustain such a high traffick list. I'd like > to > remind that the list is not moderated in the real sense of the word. > Anybody > is allowed to boycott an agenda or all the agendas if they wish so. The > option of using the delete key on your computer or using message filters > have been often suggested earlier here. So boycott anyone, anything you > like > but writing 3 4 messages just to reitterate do not help anyone. > > > Thanks > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "anupam chakravartty" > To: "sarai list" > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:46 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS > > > > Dear Rajen > > You can go on and be sectarian. The moderator in this reader's list > doesnt > > seem to have a problem. And i respect your democratic rights sir that the > > constitution guarantees you. I am just calling for a boycott of such > > agendas. > > I would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's an > > assurance > > to you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas here I > will > > keep on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your claims. > Take > > my word for that. > > Best wishes > > Anupam > > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < > > rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> sword is having both sides sharp.Your thoughts apply to all of us, as we > >> post. > >> > >> Regards, > >> Rajen. > >> > >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:05 PM, anupam chakravartty > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Dear Rajen > >>> why are u pointing people, naming them? has anybody named you rajen. i > >>> guess > >>> they (as in Taha and Javed) speak of it because you keep on questioning > >>> them > >>> pinpointing them all the time, makign generic statements against a > >>> community > >>> is something that you guys keep doing. i will never forget what you > said > >>> to > >>> meera rizvi (your surname suggest). first clean up your act then point > >>> out > >>> others > >>> -anupam > >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < > >>> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> > Dear Anupam jee, > >>> > who owns the hindu religion, it i universal way of life, so also > >>> > the > >>> > islam, but why a taha, a javed speak for it, do they own islam.?If > any > >>> of us > >>> > talk of ills our seculars have ready question that we do not speak > for > >>> > hindu, but they join to defend a husain for his right to express art > >>> > in > >>> > deities in his style, but no right to art for his own faith.? Art is > >>> > heartless when it is just art, but only commerce. > >>> > > >>> > Regards, > >>> > > >>> > Rajen. > >>> > > >>> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:40 PM, anupam chakravartty < > >>> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: > >>> > > >>> >> Dear Rajen, > >>> >> My position has been same against all kinds of religious extremism. > >>> along > >>> >> with several other list members have been opposed to these issues. > if > >>> >> u > >>> >> can > >>> >> show me one instance which according to you contradicts my earlier > >>> >> position, > >>> >> then i would like withdraw this boycott call from my side. I wish to > >>> argue > >>> >> no more on this. i know you do not own hindu religion so my advice > is > >>> that > >>> >> u > >>> >> should assuming this self styled of this religion and criticise > >>> >> others. > >>> i > >>> >> do > >>> >> not expect a change of heart from u but in case if that happens it > is > >>> also > >>> >> welcome. > >>> >> - best wishes > >>> >> anupam > >>> >> > >>> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Rakesh Iyer < > rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com> > >>> >> wrote: > >>> >> > >>> >> > Dear all > >>> >> > > >>> >> > I just read a story of the Panchatantra, and it seems to resonate > >>> with > >>> >> what > >>> >> > one of my friends told yesterday: 'People change, they do, but > >>> >> > don't > >>> >> force > >>> >> > them to change. They take it at their ego' > >>> >> > > >>> >> > Here's hoping for that change one day from Murali ji, Rajen ji, > and > >>> >> others > >>> >> > of their like. And no more replies asking them to change or > >>> criticizing > >>> >> > them. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > Regards > >>> >> > > >>> >> > Rakesh > >>> >> > > >>> >> _________________________________________ > >>> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> >> Critiques & Collaborations > >>> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> >> subscribe in the subject header. > >>> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> >> > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > Rajen. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> _________________________________________ > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> subscribe in the subject header. > >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Rajen. > >> > >> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From pheeta.ram at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 03:26:50 2009 From: pheeta.ram at gmail.com (Pheeta Ram) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 03:26:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Zombie Muslims after Zumma prayers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5bedab660907311456m1afff6d0i9bf257da35922866@mail.gmail.com> Read some partition "fiction" and you would know the roots of such happenings. Bhisma Sahni's "Tamas" shouldn't be so out of reach. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Javed wrote: > Dear Rajendra Bhatt > The recent Mysore riot started when a pig carcass was thrown into a > mosque - do you think that the Muslim would have become zombies that > they brought in the pig into their own mosque.... > See the links below about who is stoking the fire of hatred: > > > http://www.theindianherald.com/2009/07/three-killed-in-communal-riot-in-mysore.html > > > http://forums.sulekha.com/forums/coffeehouse/bjp-turns-karnataka-into-gujarat-hindutva-riots-leave-many-dead-961485.htm > > http://communalism.blogspot.com/2009/02/karnataka-bastian-of-hindutva.html > > J > > > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Rajendra Bhat > Uppinangadi wrote: > > Rakeshjee, > > muslims become zombies after they hear their mullas after the prayers > of > > zumma, may be you have not seen their actions as they come out of the > mosque > > and take laws in to their own hands, as they outnumber at that point of > time > > after prayers, till then they are ok but these prayers which are > mandatory > > are perhaps used to make them hate others for perceived injustice. > > > > Recent violence at Mysore well organised by "Poplar front of democracy" > is > > headed by very secular hinds now cooling their backs in detention, all > came > > from Kerala to foment trouble in Karnataka. The MLA, disgruntled one at > > that, Tanveer Sait is under scrutiny for "help" to gulp the wakf lands > > which led to ugly violence, with help from "secular" fronts. > > > > Regards, > > > > Rajen. > > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Rakesh Iyer > wrote: > > > >> Dear Pawan ji > >> > >> I have no issues with your putting pictures. But the way some people are > >> going about on this issue is totally horrendous. My concern is simply > this: > >> we on this forum are simply not debating or discussing issues which are > >> really for the people. I don't say that temple destruction is not an > issue > >> for the people, but to completely mix it with Muslim-bashing, is that > >> acceptable? > >> > >> I know I made that comment about the IOK. But what I would like to know > is > >> that when it keeps on coming, it seems the only objective left behind on > >> this forum is Muslim-bashing. Muslims are supposed to be portrayed as > only > >> men having destructive mentality, rapists, killers, butchers or even > >> perpetrators of injustice in simple terms. And my point is that I don't > >> accept this view. > >> > >> I also asked the question to know from all whether they have some idea > >> behind putting such pictures or writing such views, and whether it is to > >> avenge the destruction of temples or renovating them or something else. > You > >> could have simply stated the same. Of course, for the rest, it's > difficult > >> to digest even Muslim presence I believe in this nation, forget the > world of > >> course. > >> > >> Regards > >> > >> Rakesh > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Rajen. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From b_a_r_u_k at yahoo.com Sat Aug 1 04:35:33 2009 From: b_a_r_u_k at yahoo.com (Baruk S. Jacob) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 16:05:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] NREGA article In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <631227.11524.qm@web54208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> dear rakesh, thanks for posting this and the articles on the right to food- i would not have heard about it otherwise. i was wondering if you knew of any 'grievance redressal'systems that would improve the implementation of the NREGA? is it likely that the implementation of the RTF will face similar issues? apologies if my questions sound a little inane- i am rather new to developmental issues. regards, ~baruk [http://bottlebroke.blogspot.com] > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:59:00 +0530 > From: Rakesh Iyer > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] NREGA article > To: sarai list > Message-ID: >     > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > Dear all > > I thought in addition to the RTF, I will also put up > articles on other > issues if I can. So here is an NREGA article in the Times > of India by Jean > Dreze. I personally believe that if Times of India at least > publishes one > article by Mr. Dreze at least once every three days, it's > elitist views may > perhaps change for the better. > > Do read the article. > > Regards > > Rakesh > > Act fair, give rural workers their dueJEAN DREZE12 July > 2009, 01:07am IST > Print From tapasrayx at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 06:11:35 2009 From: tapasrayx at gmail.com (Tapas Ray) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:41:35 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: References: <133266.60611.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4eab87870907302235x3f4643dfr10c7ef2065f8db7d@mail.gmail.com> <4A72912F.1010808@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A738F3F.8070002@gmail.com> Shuddha, Certainly. But the statement has ramifications far beyond the list. The least that should be done, I think, is to alert Roy and Setalvad. Although it may not trigger actual physical violence (as Sanjay thinks), it may. One never knows. Tapas Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear Tapas, > > This statement, below > >>> who so ever talks against india - kill him or her >>> wipe out all antinational elements (including people like arundhati >>> roy and >>> tista settlewad) > > Is clearly an incitement to violence. And I think that the list, and the > moderator, would do well to consider whether the person who has > contributed this sentiment, in view of our previous discussions on a > code of conduct for this list, should be allowed to stay on as a member. > > best > > Shuddha > > > > On 31-Jul-09, at 12:07 PM, Tapas Ray wrote: > >> I wonder if this kind of statement in a public or semi-public forum like >> Sarai might appear as an incitement to violence in the eyes of the law. >> >> >> Murali V wrote: >>> Vedavati, >>> How right you are. >>> V Murali >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Vedavati Jogi >>> >wrote: >>> >>>> pawan, >>>> before organizing attack on any mosque in 'indian occupied kashmir' >>>> i suggest, you please throw these sickulars out of this country . >>>> they are the main culprits >>>> >>>> call jagmohan to govern the j & k, >>>> give the military free hand >>>> abrogate 370 >>>> who so ever talks against india - kill him or her >>>> wipe out all antinational elements (including people like arundhati >>>> roy and >>>> tista settlewad) >>>> >>>> problem will be solved in no time. >>>> >>>> vedavati >>>> --- On Fri, 31/7/09, Rakesh Iyer >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Rakesh Iyer >>> > >>>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur >>>> To: "Murali V" >>> > >>>> Cc: "reader-list" > >>>> Date: Friday, 31 July, 2009, 1:22 AM >>>> >>>> >>>> So Pawan ji, when are you planning to organize attacks on some mosques >>>> across the country? Or will you limit yourself to IOK (Indian-occupied >>>> Kashmir)? >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>>> with >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: >>>> >>>> >>>> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. >>>> Check out >>>> Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>>> with >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>> with subscribe in the subject >>> header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> with subscribe in the subject >> header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > From santhoshhrishikesh at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 09:23:44 2009 From: santhoshhrishikesh at gmail.com (santhosh hk) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 09:23:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Inviting articles for Interdisciplinary E-Journal Message-ID: *Vijnanacintamani *is the electronic version of the journal of the same name started way back in 1883 by the eminent scholar Sri Punnassery Nambi Neelakanta Sharma in Sankrit, the founder of Sree Neelakanta Govt. Sanskrit College, Pattambi, Kerala, India. This multi –lingual journal is published once in three months; it can be accessed and downloaded absolutely free of cost from www.vijnanacintamani.org or www.sngscollege.info , the website of the College maintained by the Multimedia Centre. The contents remain the copyright of the college. The journal is essentially interdisciplinary in approach and sensibility. Seven volumes brought out so far vouchsafe this: the first one examines and explores the possibilities of new emerging techniques in English Language Teaching (ELT) while the second is an extensive survey on the theory and practice of local history. The third dwells extensively on the conflicting Sanskrit traditions, epistemological frameworks and knowledge systems of India. The fourth one is the exact reproduction of the old vijnanacintamani which was published by Punnasseri Nampi. The Seventh issue seeks the impact of contemporary linguistic perspectives in Regional language studies especially in Malayalam. Outstanding academicians and writers have contributed in all issues. The focus of last Issue was Molecular materials. The upcoming issue explores the cause of deflationary paradox in India. In each issue, research papers and abstracts of theses are included. Articles can be supplemented, if necessary, by audio and video files, power point or any other required software. There is space earmarked for review articles as well as creative pieces. We are seriously considering the prospects of including study materials and trying to covert the journal into a referred one. Articles can be submitted by email in soft copy in PDF / Word. Alternatively, hard copies can be sent to the Convener, Multimedia Centre. Writers are strongly advised to make sure submitted items are original and to desist from the use of copyrighted materials to avoid legal wrangling. For details, feel free to contact the Convener. Ph: 9447651899, 9947113641. ADDRESS: The Convener Multimedia Centre SNGS College Pattambi Palakkad Ph: 0466 2212223 Email: editor at vijnanacintamani.org , mail at sngscollege.info , sngscollege at gmail.com Website: www.sngscollege.info www.vijnanacintamani.org From murali.chalam at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 09:24:01 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 09:24:01 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? In-Reply-To: <5bedab660907311405v3c53908h68b0217e7f0d5c0e@mail.gmail.com> References: <5bedab660907311405v3c53908h68b0217e7f0d5c0e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870907312054r287b2090m6d4fb35c07ca6813@mail.gmail.com> What you propose is already available in a faith called "Way of Living". One has to attempt this philosophy and things would be for the good. Murali V On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 2:35 AM, Pheeta Ram wrote: > Dear All, > I know this won't go down well with most of you but here it is: > Religions are the basic source of strife and as long as there will be > religions > (belief in this God and that) there will be such hostilities. By professing > one religion > i simultaneously create an other being who, by inference, is either > follower > of some religion > or a pagan. The basic contradiction in all religions is that despite their > moral-ethical discourse > regarding oneness of all humanity they are the principal segregators. All > the saints who have > walked the earth deluded themselves with such fancies. > > Religion is not just a system of belief but also an economy. We depend a > lot > upon our religious capital > for our subsistance. A person who professes to be a member of certain > community (primarily religious) > also depends upon it as a kind of umbilical cord and draws sucour. > > By now earth has soaked so much blood because of religious strifes that > sometimes i wonder isn't it time > to abandon all religious badges and create a ethical moral code drawn from > all the religions and start believing > in one community: that is Human. > > I think we need to believe in our brother next door and one walking on the > street or the worker on a Metro site. > We need to believe that for the survival of humanity we need to believe in > each other and not on some transcendental > agency. I wonder why we haven't learnt from our history. The primary reason > why we have failed terribly in creating a > community of all human beings that walk the earth is because we are afraid. > Afraid to believe in somebody who is in > front of us in flesh and blood. I remember a man sitting in Blue Line who > was highly uncomfortable when a profusely sweating migrant labourer got in > and found a seat, to his great relief, by his side. It is certain that he > didn't know of the > religion of that worker but the stench of his sweat and his dirty clothes > were enough for him to get up and keep standing > for the rest of his journey. I wonder when we have such intolerence for a > 'fellow' human beings' honest sweat how would we > ever begin even thinking about such a Human community. The perils that face > the earth now are reasons enough that we > start believing in each other and work for the future of humanity by > shunning all our sectarian tags. But strangely we are busy > inventing/refurbishing new messiah who would deliver us from the mess that > we have ourselves created on this earth. > > I wonder what stops us from creating a new religion of Humanity. > > The advice that comes from scholarly circles regarding all this religious > intolerance is : Tolerance! > That we need to tolerate each other. Tolerance is another form of fascism > or > nazism, what ever. I won't agree with substituting > the word toleracne with "respect" or "compassion". Why tolerate the very > root of strife in the first place. > > And yet, sadly, things are not as simple as that. But a time comes when we > have to call a spade a spade. > We have to shun God to love human beings. There is no other way. Just > visualize the situation: Two guys are standing in a big stadium in front of > each other, just a metre apart but with their faces 'heaven'wards. Why are > they afraid to see each other directly. > Why does the need arise to travel so many light years and then come to ones > brother standing just a meter away. > > I know it is plain foolishness to ask somebody whose bread and butter > depends upon religion to shun it and enter the fold of Humanity where > people > believe in people and work with mutual responsibility. But we > need neo-believers who are foolish enough to > believe in such a possibility and are ready to work for it. It's a > long revolution but a possible one. > > But, the roadblocks are mighty hard to surpass. Take for instance my case: > I have a primary school in my neighbourhood, a government one. And > every morning even before i have got up their assembly begins and the > chants > of sacred Hindu mantras begin. All this atma and parmatma stuff. Though i > don't dispute the sense inherent in the prayer yet aren't we or rather the > supposedly and proffessedly secular government entering into the business > of 'mass conversion'. When i have all these religious prayers embedded into > my consciousness right from my childhood can you imagine how much i would > have to suffer to convert back to the religion of humanity if i convert at > all and not turn into some religious fanatic. Less said of the schools run > by one religion or the other the better. > > Though the proposal seems indecent yet i think there are madmen enough to > believe in this long long revolution. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From murali.chalam at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 10:03:15 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 10:03:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: <341380d00907311146o1cf1eecak514d76d9f18537e2@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00907310144vbcb4d37sf40d6bd434ffc18@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310510m7aab8f63q292439a5f0582ea1@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310517w140a20b5r4751e57b4a777bb3@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310535n49ce0d17kc91f83692d9dfb4@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310539j6dc44ff1s99591ea4a60e7085@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310546w12631d90teb9c8ae491c9f0cb@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907310956n772d29acuf8ccda5710a3454f@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907311146o1cf1eecak514d76d9f18537e2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870907312133t6b3a595dg99d54e01c1b43ef1@mail.gmail.com> Dear Anupam, I have never nor will I ever talk of destruction of any kind. My only concern is that when we talk of secularism, it has to be followed with absolute clarity and without any bias. It is only pseudo-secularism which is the norm. A school run by christian isnstitutions does not allow hindu boys to come with Sandal paste on their foreheadin and with a black towel worn around the waist during the fasting period before going to Sabarimala, does not allow girls to wear the traditional bindi on their forehead while a school run by a hindu institution cannot object to the girl coming to school in a Burkha. The word "uniform" is not applicable to some. Crores of Tax payers money is spent every year on the Mecca trip, while Hindus will have to pay tax to go to the holy shrines atop the himalayas. Regards, Murali V tion On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:16 AM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Murli, > I am really sorry to say the stories you have been posting about > Murshidabad > are far from true. It is the perspective of someone who has a sectarian > understanding of the problem. You generalised the gang rivalry in the > region > to the slaying of the hindus. The problem here lies in the fact in the > process of strenghtening your sectarian identity you tend to accomodate a > lot of devaints who could have otherwise found some gainful employment. > Here > there were two agrarian gangs fighting for resources like terrorism, > manipulation and worst of all, lure of power with the help of fear and > threats. > I refuse to be manipulated. It is a personal protest demanding a fair play. > From very close quarters, I have seen the sectarian identity functioning > seditiously, poisoning minds which could have done better than what they > are > doing. I dont want my brethren to be blinded by the propaganda of fear from > the state's side or from gun runners. Insecurity drives people crazy. A > nation full of people, with their aspirations cannot be cheated to perform > such a heinous crime killing or plundering or looting. They inherently want > fair play although when manipulated, they needed to be told that there is > no > point in worrying about who you are -- it is about what you are doing. > Sir, nation building is not an easy task. Do you think in a homogenous > society (as you speak for the Hindu community) you can stop the individual > aspirations? Lets say as a reaction you chased out devaints of all kinds, > and only your kinds exist, would you be able to control subversion? You > cannot afford to be unfair here. > > I wont tell you about the multi-sectarian society and benefits that it > brings. Because you know what it means and since as a reaction, you have > also consciously chosen to deviate from such a possibility of multi racial > or sectarian society. But whether should i respect this deviance at the > cost > of accomodating all the wrong doings is something that needs a > philosophical > understanding. A historical and a subjective (i know this word is likely > displease several readers here) understanding always accomodates conflicts > as the prime reason for all creations sectarian or otherwise (from small > panchyats, to the demand for new railway stations to demand for a seperate > state hood). These reactions are provokative and instead of painful task of > solving these issues in light of rational solutions, it proposes an easier > victory over such ailments -- by destruction. It is from here, I said: "I > would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's an assurance > to > you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas here I will > keep > on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your claims." You are > most welcome to critique in the same rational, peaceful way not as someone > shouting "kill them all" in a discussion forums as this. Killing me is not > enough Sir. > - with warm regards > Anupam > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Murali V > wrote: > > > And I shall also try to counter every one of your claims. > > Regards, > > V Murali > > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:16 PM, anupam chakravartty >wrote: > > > >> Dear Rajen > >> You can go on and be sectarian. The moderator in this reader's list > doesnt > >> seem to have a problem. And i respect your democratic rights sir that > the > >> constitution guarantees you. I am just calling for a boycott of such > >> agendas. > >> I would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's an > >> assurance > >> to you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas here I > will > >> keep on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your claims. > Take > >> my word for that. > >> Best wishes > >> Anupam > >> > >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < > >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> > sword is having both sides sharp.Your thoughts apply to all of us, as > we > >> > post. > >> > > >> > Regards, > >> > Rajen. > >> > > >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:05 PM, anupam chakravartty < > >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: > >> > > >> >> Dear Rajen > >> >> why are u pointing people, naming them? has anybody named you rajen. > i > >> >> guess > >> >> they (as in Taha and Javed) speak of it because you keep on > questioning > >> >> them > >> >> pinpointing them all the time, makign generic statements against a > >> >> community > >> >> is something that you guys keep doing. i will never forget what you > >> said > >> >> to > >> >> meera rizvi (your surname suggest). first clean up your act then > point > >> out > >> >> others > >> >> -anupam > >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < > >> >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > Dear Anupam jee, > >> >> > who owns the hindu religion, it i universal way of life, so > also > >> the > >> >> > islam, but why a taha, a javed speak for it, do they own islam.?If > >> any > >> >> of us > >> >> > talk of ills our seculars have ready question that we do not speak > >> for > >> >> > hindu, but they join to defend a husain for his right to express > art > >> in > >> >> > deities in his style, but no right to art for his own faith.? Art > is > >> >> > heartless when it is just art, but only commerce. > >> >> > > >> >> > Regards, > >> >> > > >> >> > Rajen. > >> >> > > >> >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:40 PM, anupam chakravartty < > >> >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> Dear Rajen, > >> >> >> My position has been same against all kinds of religious > extremism. > >> >> along > >> >> >> with several other list members have been opposed to these issues. > >> if u > >> >> >> can > >> >> >> show me one instance which according to you contradicts my earlier > >> >> >> position, > >> >> >> then i would like withdraw this boycott call from my side. I wish > to > >> >> argue > >> >> >> no more on this. i know you do not own hindu religion so my advice > >> is > >> >> that > >> >> >> u > >> >> >> should assuming this self styled of this religion and criticise > >> others. > >> >> i > >> >> >> do > >> >> >> not expect a change of heart from u but in case if that happens it > >> is > >> >> also > >> >> >> welcome. > >> >> >> - best wishes > >> >> >> anupam > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Rakesh Iyer < > >> rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com> > >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Dear all > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > I just read a story of the Panchatantra, and it seems to > resonate > >> >> with > >> >> >> what > >> >> >> > one of my friends told yesterday: 'People change, they do, but > >> don't > >> >> >> force > >> >> >> > them to change. They take it at their ego' > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Here's hoping for that change one day from Murali ji, Rajen ji, > >> and > >> >> >> others > >> >> >> > of their like. And no more replies asking them to change or > >> >> criticizing > >> >> >> > them. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Regards > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Rakesh > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> _________________________________________ > >> >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >> >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> >> >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> >> >> To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > -- > >> >> > Rajen. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> _________________________________________ > >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Rajen. > >> > > >> > > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From pheeta.ram at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 10:15:14 2009 From: pheeta.ram at gmail.com (Pheeta Ram) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 10:15:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <4A738F3F.8070002@gmail.com> References: <133266.60611.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4eab87870907302235x3f4643dfr10c7ef2065f8db7d@mail.gmail.com> <4A72912F.1010808@gmail.com> <4A738F3F.8070002@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5bedab660907312145q7abfd694h8f2820ca794a277f@mail.gmail.com> Don't worry guys, fingers that hit the keyboard can't pick a sword. Moreover, if we have a look at the discourses in the public sphere there hardly exists anything that would incite or lead to violence against these people. These celebrity intellectuals and activists are there for a purpose that serves the strategic operations of both the sides, if there are two sides. Just think of it, has anybody ever hurt Naom Chomsky? The fanatics have learnt from past mistakes. They know that certain people become everthemore dangerous after they are dead. Our society is already very very short of Heroes and role models .Morevoer, these activists have never been of any harm to anybody.Their parallel economies run on a studied stance: just don't go off the edge. This will take care of their ratings and save their skins too, ek khareedo to doosra muft! On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 6:11 AM, Tapas Ray wrote: > Shuddha, > > Certainly. But the statement has ramifications far beyond the list. The > least that should be done, I think, is to alert Roy and Setalvad. > Although it may not trigger actual physical violence (as Sanjay thinks), > it may. One never knows. > > Tapas > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > > Dear Tapas, > > > > This statement, below > > > >>> who so ever talks against india - kill him or her > >>> wipe out all antinational elements (including people like arundhati > >>> roy and > >>> tista settlewad) > > > > Is clearly an incitement to violence. And I think that the list, and the > > moderator, would do well to consider whether the person who has > > contributed this sentiment, in view of our previous discussions on a > > code of conduct for this list, should be allowed to stay on as a member. > > > > best > > > > Shuddha > > > > > > > > On 31-Jul-09, at 12:07 PM, Tapas Ray wrote: > > > >> I wonder if this kind of statement in a public or semi-public forum like > >> Sarai might appear as an incitement to violence in the eyes of the law. > >> > >> > >> Murali V wrote: > >>> Vedavati, > >>> How right you are. > >>> V Murali > >>> > >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Vedavati Jogi > >>> >wrote: > >>> > >>>> pawan, > >>>> before organizing attack on any mosque in 'indian occupied kashmir' > >>>> i suggest, you please throw these sickulars out of this country . > >>>> they are the main culprits > >>>> > >>>> call jagmohan to govern the j & k, > >>>> give the military free hand > >>>> abrogate 370 > >>>> who so ever talks against india - kill him or her > >>>> wipe out all antinational elements (including people like arundhati > >>>> roy and > >>>> tista settlewad) > >>>> > >>>> problem will be solved in no time. > >>>> > >>>> vedavati > >>>> --- On Fri, 31/7/09, Rakesh Iyer >>>> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> From: Rakesh Iyer >>>> > > >>>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur > >>>> To: "Murali V" >>>> > > >>>> Cc: "reader-list" reader-list at sarai.net>> > >>>> Date: Friday, 31 July, 2009, 1:22 AM > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> So Pawan ji, when are you planning to organize attacks on some mosques > >>>> across the country? Or will you limit yourself to IOK (Indian-occupied > >>>> Kashmir)? > >>>> _________________________________________ > >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >>>> with > >>>> subscribe in the subject header. > >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>>> List archive: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. > >>>> Check out > >>>> Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ > >>>> _________________________________________ > >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >>>> with > >>>> subscribe in the subject header. > >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>>> List archive: > >>> _________________________________________ > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >>> with subscribe in the subject > >>> header. > >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > >> > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> with subscribe in the subject > >> header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > > Raqs Media Collective > > shuddha at sarai.net > > www.sarai.net > > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From pheeta.ram at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 10:32:59 2009 From: pheeta.ram at gmail.com (Pheeta Ram) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 10:32:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: <4eab87870907312133t6b3a595dg99d54e01c1b43ef1@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00907310144vbcb4d37sf40d6bd434ffc18@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310510m7aab8f63q292439a5f0582ea1@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310517w140a20b5r4751e57b4a777bb3@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310535n49ce0d17kc91f83692d9dfb4@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310539j6dc44ff1s99591ea4a60e7085@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310546w12631d90teb9c8ae491c9f0cb@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907310956n772d29acuf8ccda5710a3454f@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907311146o1cf1eecak514d76d9f18537e2@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907312133t6b3a595dg99d54e01c1b43ef1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5bedab660907312202k406da437kb96372366de2e8ae@mail.gmail.com> Dear Murali, Institutions run by religious sects would be like that only otherwise why would they set up schools in the name of their religions in the first place. Every religion has an agenda. More the followers more the currency. But what i am pointing towards is the fact that even a school run by a government, and just imagine how many schools are there all over India, indulges in practices, and "uniformly" so, which are nothing short of proselytisation. When my son is asked to chant a Hindu Gayatri Mantra, or prayers that talk of "Atma" and "Parmatma" isn't it silent conversion to Hindu faith by a government that needs to be neutral in terms of religion. When you level charges, let me tell you, "opposite is true too." So don't exert yourself so hard. Moreover, if i am discriminated against my religion that doesn't give me the right to read "fatwas" against people who "just" extend the boundaries of citizenship to our relief. I won't ask my little son to go and kill his classmates just because he is being asked to chant a "mantra" that he has come to believe he doesn't need to or is unjustified ( given my brainwashing) in the first place. He has the right to be nurtured in a world where he is not preordained into the watertight compartment of some religion. Things are not so simple and straightforward as you would have them to be. In a public discussion forum everybody needs to be patient and not panic just because some "fan-atic" has fanned an imaginary jingoitst or communal frenzy. On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 10:03 AM, Murali V wrote: > Dear Anupam, > I have never nor will I ever talk of destruction of any kind. My only > concern is that when we talk of secularism, it has to be followed with > absolute clarity and without any bias. It is only pseudo-secularism which > is > the norm. > > A school run by christian isnstitutions does not allow hindu boys to come > with Sandal paste on their foreheadin and with a black towel worn around > the waist during the fasting period before going to Sabarimala, does not > allow girls to wear the traditional bindi on their forehead while a school > run by a hindu institution cannot object to the girl coming to school in a > Burkha. > > The word "uniform" is not applicable to some. > > Crores of Tax payers money is spent every year on the Mecca trip, while > Hindus will have to pay tax to go to the holy shrines atop the himalayas. > > Regards, > > Murali V > > > > > > > > > > > > tion > > > > > > > > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:16 AM, anupam chakravartty >wrote: > > > Dear Murli, > > I am really sorry to say the stories you have been posting about > > Murshidabad > > are far from true. It is the perspective of someone who has a sectarian > > understanding of the problem. You generalised the gang rivalry in the > > region > > to the slaying of the hindus. The problem here lies in the fact in the > > process of strenghtening your sectarian identity you tend to accomodate a > > lot of devaints who could have otherwise found some gainful employment. > > Here > > there were two agrarian gangs fighting for resources like terrorism, > > manipulation and worst of all, lure of power with the help of fear and > > threats. > > I refuse to be manipulated. It is a personal protest demanding a fair > play. > > From very close quarters, I have seen the sectarian identity functioning > > seditiously, poisoning minds which could have done better than what they > > are > > doing. I dont want my brethren to be blinded by the propaganda of fear > from > > the state's side or from gun runners. Insecurity drives people crazy. A > > nation full of people, with their aspirations cannot be cheated to > perform > > such a heinous crime killing or plundering or looting. They inherently > want > > fair play although when manipulated, they needed to be told that there is > > no > > point in worrying about who you are -- it is about what you are doing. > > Sir, nation building is not an easy task. Do you think in a homogenous > > society (as you speak for the Hindu community) you can stop the > individual > > aspirations? Lets say as a reaction you chased out devaints of all kinds, > > and only your kinds exist, would you be able to control subversion? You > > cannot afford to be unfair here. > > > > I wont tell you about the multi-sectarian society and benefits that it > > brings. Because you know what it means and since as a reaction, you have > > also consciously chosen to deviate from such a possibility of multi > racial > > or sectarian society. But whether should i respect this deviance at the > > cost > > of accomodating all the wrong doings is something that needs a > > philosophical > > understanding. A historical and a subjective (i know this word is likely > > displease several readers here) understanding always accomodates > conflicts > > as the prime reason for all creations sectarian or otherwise (from small > > panchyats, to the demand for new railway stations to demand for a > seperate > > state hood). These reactions are provokative and instead of painful task > of > > solving these issues in light of rational solutions, it proposes an > easier > > victory over such ailments -- by destruction. It is from here, I said: "I > > would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's an assurance > > to > > you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas here I will > > keep > > on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your claims." You are > > most welcome to critique in the same rational, peaceful way not as > someone > > shouting "kill them all" in a discussion forums as this. Killing me is > not > > enough Sir. > > - with warm regards > > Anupam > > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Murali V > > wrote: > > > > > And I shall also try to counter every one of your claims. > > > Regards, > > > V Murali > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:16 PM, anupam chakravartty < > c.anupam at gmail.com > > >wrote: > > > > > >> Dear Rajen > > >> You can go on and be sectarian. The moderator in this reader's list > > doesnt > > >> seem to have a problem. And i respect your democratic rights sir that > > the > > >> constitution guarantees you. I am just calling for a boycott of such > > >> agendas. > > >> I would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's an > > >> assurance > > >> to you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas here I > > will > > >> keep on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your claims. > > Take > > >> my word for that. > > >> Best wishes > > >> Anupam > > >> > > >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < > > >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > > >> > > >> > sword is having both sides sharp.Your thoughts apply to all of us, > as > > we > > >> > post. > > >> > > > >> > Regards, > > >> > Rajen. > > >> > > > >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:05 PM, anupam chakravartty < > > >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: > > >> > > > >> >> Dear Rajen > > >> >> why are u pointing people, naming them? has anybody named you > rajen. > > i > > >> >> guess > > >> >> they (as in Taha and Javed) speak of it because you keep on > > questioning > > >> >> them > > >> >> pinpointing them all the time, makign generic statements against a > > >> >> community > > >> >> is something that you guys keep doing. i will never forget what you > > >> said > > >> >> to > > >> >> meera rizvi (your surname suggest). first clean up your act then > > point > > >> out > > >> >> others > > >> >> -anupam > > >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < > > >> >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > > >> >> > > >> >> > Dear Anupam jee, > > >> >> > who owns the hindu religion, it i universal way of life, so > > also > > >> the > > >> >> > islam, but why a taha, a javed speak for it, do they own > islam.?If > > >> any > > >> >> of us > > >> >> > talk of ills our seculars have ready question that we do not > speak > > >> for > > >> >> > hindu, but they join to defend a husain for his right to express > > art > > >> in > > >> >> > deities in his style, but no right to art for his own faith.? Art > > is > > >> >> > heartless when it is just art, but only commerce. > > >> >> > > > >> >> > Regards, > > >> >> > > > >> >> > Rajen. > > >> >> > > > >> >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:40 PM, anupam chakravartty < > > >> >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: > > >> >> > > > >> >> >> Dear Rajen, > > >> >> >> My position has been same against all kinds of religious > > extremism. > > >> >> along > > >> >> >> with several other list members have been opposed to these > issues. > > >> if u > > >> >> >> can > > >> >> >> show me one instance which according to you contradicts my > earlier > > >> >> >> position, > > >> >> >> then i would like withdraw this boycott call from my side. I > wish > > to > > >> >> argue > > >> >> >> no more on this. i know you do not own hindu religion so my > advice > > >> is > > >> >> that > > >> >> >> u > > >> >> >> should assuming this self styled of this religion and criticise > > >> others. > > >> >> i > > >> >> >> do > > >> >> >> not expect a change of heart from u but in case if that happens > it > > >> is > > >> >> also > > >> >> >> welcome. > > >> >> >> - best wishes > > >> >> >> anupam > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Rakesh Iyer < > > >> rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com> > > >> >> >> wrote: > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Dear all > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > I just read a story of the Panchatantra, and it seems to > > resonate > > >> >> with > > >> >> >> what > > >> >> >> > one of my friends told yesterday: 'People change, they do, but > > >> don't > > >> >> >> force > > >> >> >> > them to change. They take it at their ego' > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > Here's hoping for that change one day from Murali ji, Rajen > ji, > > >> and > > >> >> >> others > > >> >> >> > of their like. And no more replies asking them to change or > > >> >> criticizing > > >> >> >> > them. > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > Regards > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > Rakesh > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> _________________________________________ > > >> >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > >> >> >> Critiques & Collaborations > > >> >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > > >> >> >> subscribe in the subject header. > > >> >> >> To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >> >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/ > > > > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > -- > > >> >> > Rajen. > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> _________________________________________ > > >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > >> >> Critiques & Collaborations > > >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > >> >> subscribe in the subject header. > > >> >> To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >> >> > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > -- > > >> > Rajen. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> _________________________________________ > > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > >> Critiques & Collaborations > > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > >> subscribe in the subject header. > > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >> > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From meera.rizvi at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 10:47:34 2009 From: meera.rizvi at gmail.com (Meera Rizvi) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 10:47:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: References: <2ec0b0550907302106k3adbdcddn2b0f56448b81277d@mail.gmail.com> <792871.81880.qm@web94713.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2ec0b0550907312217g4779e962wc2c05a9cdcfabd7b@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh, 'The problem is not of Kashmiri Muslims v/s Kashmiri Hindus as some would like us to see. The problem is of justice'...Well, said! I believe that we cannot ahieve a healthy and productive civilian society by suspension of human rights. People who advocate this course of action have either not thought things through or are just cruel and inhumane (pretty close psychologically to the militants they claim to hate). Regards, Meera On 7/31/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Indeed there is tremendous pressure. After all, when there are allegations > of rape, murder and fake encounters flying thick and fast around, and with > no investigations conducted in most of them, there is bound to be pressure > on the military forces to act against civilian movements fighting for > justice. > > The problem is not of Kashmiri Muslims v/s Kashmiri Hindus as some would > like us to see. The problem is of justice. The first act required is to > scrap the AFSPA and get the CRPF and other para-military forces out of the > villages and to the border or to the barracks. That's their rightful place. > Let the things be managed by the J & K police. Let's not forget, that peace > returned in Punjab too only once people supported movements against > terrorism and the police excesses were gone. > > And Pawan ji, while I accept your concern for temples, the no. of times we > have heard about this particular argument has really made me 'sick' (not > 'sickular') of hearing them time and again. (I think it would make anybody > sick). The migration of Hindus and Sikhs must be studied, or even their > conversion, in a contextual sense; so also the destruction of temples. Of > course, if people can try to get them renovated, nothing better. > > My simple concern is this: What now that temples have been destroyed in the > past? What should we do with it? If the concern is to get them renovated, > it's on the last list of priority basis looking from a pro-people angle. > > Btw, I appreciate your concern that it's got nothing to do with mosques, > because so many times the arguments presented seem as if it's Hindus v/s > Muslims every time. > > Rakesh > -- Meera From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 10:58:25 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 10:58:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] NREGA article In-Reply-To: <631227.11524.qm@web54208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <631227.11524.qm@web54208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Baruk I am not sure, but to my knowledge, the grievance-redressal systems are not functioning properly at all. The basic grievance redressal systems were the provision of unemployment allowance (to be given in case employment was not provided within 15 days of being asked), and the provision of paying more money in case employment was not given within 30 days of asking. Both are not functioning properly. Moreover, in the draft Act, it was envisaged that there would be a national authority which would deal with all grievances which can be filed as written petitions or complaints at the gram panchayat level, having its state sub-bodies and smaller enforcing bodies at the panchayat level. These have not been activated in almost all states. This has been the most tragic part as far as NREGA is concerned. As far as the Right to Food draft Act is concerned, within the act there is a provision of a national authority ( the kind of which had to be there in NREGA as well), with state sub-bodies and bodies at the panchayat level, which will monitor the cases of RTF not being implemented properly in the respective villages. However, the implementation of any scheme is mostly dependent on the people who benefit from the scheme, and their active participation in it. First it's important for the people to know about the scheme properly, and then to fight for ensuring it works properly in their village. While Dreze and his team of members and other NGO's across the country do fight for this purpose, villagers also have to take an interest in the situation. As an example, Tamil Nadu and Kerala have the best implementation (along with some other states) as far as NREGA is concerned, but states like Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, Madhya Pradesh have been having corruption scams in the very same program (entitlement). The reason is that in Tamil Nadu and Kerala, there is a huge hue and cry raised whenever such schemes don't work properly, or there is corruption, and the people also apply pressure to make things work. Whereas in the other states, that is not the case. It's this public pressure which forces the authorities to ensure that the act is implemented properly ultimately. That is how the NREGA was introduced in the first place. And your queries were not inane. They are quite genuine. Thanks for the response. Regards Rakesh From pheeta.ram at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 11:00:54 2009 From: pheeta.ram at gmail.com (Pheeta Ram) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 11:00:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? In-Reply-To: <4eab87870907312054r287b2090m6d4fb35c07ca6813@mail.gmail.com> References: <5bedab660907311405v3c53908h68b0217e7f0d5c0e@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907312054r287b2090m6d4fb35c07ca6813@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5bedab660907312230k2a662163t6c56d217adc770da@mail.gmail.com> "You make me laugh Murali," says Jahanvi. There is a bit of childish rashness and irreverant matter-of-factness ( though totally misplaced) the way you make an offer. The options are not available like some commodity in our nearest shop, or Mall if you will. There are many such experiments that are going on all over the world. People have also set up "gated communities" and profess to be citizens of another world that belongs to another day. Can you suggest me a list of communities in India itself that are experimenting the way i have suggested? What i would venture to suggest to you "personally" is to find out the reasons why such communities are still segregated and away from the public knowledge. Are they really communities that profess no faith, and if they do not, what is the nature of their faith in the first place. We are fortunate enough that people in so large a number are gracing this discussion forum; one rarely gets such dedicated readers who also spend time responding to fanatical proposals (and run for alarm at the slightest provocation). With faith and religion are attached many other issues that have already been debated in hallowed intellectual circles but their conclusions have not been able to percolate down to the masses like us. The problems are as much psychological as they are cultural. Take for example today's kewl college going brats. They wear Che Guevara T-shrits and claim to belonging to no religion live and act like hippies of 70s though fall far short of that because of reasons too obvious to merit a mention. Now one might ask is this the kind of "thing" that i am proposing. Certainly NOT! These guys don't even know who Che was, somebody would as well tell you that he was a Harlem pop star of the 60s or 20s if you will or just a "pop star." Moreover, they would shoot a nearest temple at the first instance, whether for the sake of girls or to crack an entrance test. I was shocked to see many kewl guys fitted in branded jeans chanting Hanuman Chalisa when i dragged myself out of curiosity to a temple in Delhi. Things run deep under kewl T-shirts! We need to understand many such paradoxical webs, not individually but "communally" through such a forum. Best On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Murali V wrote: > What you propose is already available in a faith called "Way of Living". > One has to attempt this philosophy and things would be for the good. > Murali V > > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 2:35 AM, Pheeta Ram wrote: > >> Dear All, >> I know this won't go down well with most of you but here it is: >> Religions are the basic source of strife and as long as there will be >> religions >> (belief in this God and that) there will be such hostilities. By >> professing >> one religion >> i simultaneously create an other being who, by inference, is either >> follower >> of some religion >> or a pagan. The basic contradiction in all religions is that despite their >> moral-ethical discourse >> regarding oneness of all humanity they are the principal segregators. All >> the saints who have >> walked the earth deluded themselves with such fancies. >> >> Religion is not just a system of belief but also an economy. We depend a >> lot >> upon our religious capital >> for our subsistance. A person who professes to be a member of certain >> community (primarily religious) >> also depends upon it as a kind of umbilical cord and draws sucour. >> >> By now earth has soaked so much blood because of religious strifes that >> sometimes i wonder isn't it time >> to abandon all religious badges and create a ethical moral code drawn from >> all the religions and start believing >> in one community: that is Human. >> >> I think we need to believe in our brother next door and one walking on the >> street or the worker on a Metro site. >> We need to believe that for the survival of humanity we need to believe in >> each other and not on some transcendental >> agency. I wonder why we haven't learnt from our history. The primary >> reason >> why we have failed terribly in creating a >> community of all human beings that walk the earth is because we are >> afraid. >> Afraid to believe in somebody who is in >> front of us in flesh and blood. I remember a man sitting in Blue Line who >> was highly uncomfortable when a profusely sweating migrant labourer got in >> and found a seat, to his great relief, by his side. It is certain that he >> didn't know of the >> religion of that worker but the stench of his sweat and his dirty clothes >> were enough for him to get up and keep standing >> for the rest of his journey. I wonder when we have such intolerence for a >> 'fellow' human beings' honest sweat how would we >> ever begin even thinking about such a Human community. The perils that >> face >> the earth now are reasons enough that we >> start believing in each other and work for the future of humanity by >> shunning all our sectarian tags. But strangely we are busy >> inventing/refurbishing new messiah who would deliver us from the mess that >> we have ourselves created on this earth. >> >> I wonder what stops us from creating a new religion of Humanity. >> >> The advice that comes from scholarly circles regarding all this religious >> intolerance is : Tolerance! >> That we need to tolerate each other. Tolerance is another form of fascism >> or >> nazism, what ever. I won't agree with substituting >> the word toleracne with "respect" or "compassion". Why tolerate the very >> root of strife in the first place. >> >> And yet, sadly, things are not as simple as that. But a time comes when >> we >> have to call a spade a spade. >> We have to shun God to love human beings. There is no other way. Just >> visualize the situation: Two guys are standing in a big stadium in front >> of >> each other, just a metre apart but with their faces 'heaven'wards. Why are >> they afraid to see each other directly. >> Why does the need arise to travel so many light years and then come to >> ones >> brother standing just a meter away. >> >> I know it is plain foolishness to ask somebody whose bread and butter >> depends upon religion to shun it and enter the fold of Humanity where >> people >> believe in people and work with mutual responsibility. But we >> need neo-believers who are foolish enough to >> believe in such a possibility and are ready to work for it. It's a >> long revolution but a possible one. >> >> But, the roadblocks are mighty hard to surpass. Take for instance my case: >> I have a primary school in my neighbourhood, a government one. And >> every morning even before i have got up their assembly begins and the >> chants >> of sacred Hindu mantras begin. All this atma and parmatma stuff. Though i >> don't dispute the sense inherent in the prayer yet aren't we or rather the >> supposedly and proffessedly secular government entering into the business >> of 'mass conversion'. When i have all these religious prayers embedded >> into >> my consciousness right from my childhood can you imagine how much i would >> have to suffer to convert back to the religion of humanity if i convert at >> all and not turn into some religious fanatic. Less said of the schools run >> by one religion or the other the better. >> >> Though the proposal seems indecent yet i think there are madmen enough to >> believe in this long long revolution. >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 11:43:18 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 11:43:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 3 Message-ID: ------------------------------ [image: Frontline] *Volume 18 - Issue 18, Sep. 01 - 14, 2001* India's National Magazine from the publishers of THE HINDU ------------------------------ Table of Contents FOOD SECURITY Upholding the right to food *In the battle for the right to food, the Supreme Court lends its weight to the cause of the deprived.* *SUKUMAR MURALIDHARAN* HEARING a petition filed by the People's Union for Civil Liberties on August 20, the Supreme Court wondered aloud about the utility of stocks piling up in the warehouses of the Food Corporation of India (FCI), while millions across the country remained vulnerable to food deprivation. The three-Judge Bench comprising Justices B.N. Kirpal, Santosh Hegde and Brijesh Kumar affirmed that the Central and State governments had the principal responsibility to see that food reached the poor and the indigent. The Bench was asked to deal with a series of questions, which could have far-reaching consequences for the directions of economic and social welfare policy. First, did the right to life, as guaranteed by Article 21 of the Constitution, imply that people who were too poor to buy their own food should be guaranteed the minimum means of subsistence by the state? In other words, did the right to life include the right to food? And did this not in turn imply that the state was obliged to provide sufficient and adequate redress to vulnerable sections in circumstances that threatened to impair seriously the right to food? The petitioners, represented by Colin Gonsalves and Yug Chaudhuri of the Lawyers' Network for Human Rights, placed before the court the options open to the government. The Employment Assurance Scheme, they pointed out, offered a safety net for people without sufficient assets, who would otherwise be unable to cope with adverse fluctuations in weather and employment conditions. The mid-day meal scheme in schools not only provided basic nutritional intake for children in a vital phase of their growth but also contributed to a substantial increase in school enrolment. And the Integrated Child Development Scheme was a means to safeguard children against the ravages of under-nourishment and an inadequate health care infrastructure. At an earlier hearing, the Supreme Court had issued notice to the Central government and to the governments of Orissa, Rajasthan, Chattisgarh, Maharashtra, Gujarat and Himachal Pradesh, seeking explanations and clarifications on the facts placed before it. After the August 20 hearing, the Supreme Court granted the time requested by the respective governments to file their affidavits and posted the matter for interim orders in the first week of September. The public interest litigation(PIL) initiated by the PUCL represents a new front in the battle for food rights, which has been waged with varying degrees of intensity in the States worst affected by adverse weather conditions over the last three years. Activist groups in Orissa, Rajasthan and Madhya Pradesh notably, have been campaigning for increased outlays in employment and rural works programmes, only to be frustrated by the continuing obduracy of financially strapped State governments. And though the pressure eased with the arrival of the monsoon and the start of sowing operations across the country, the damage caused by floods in certain regions has meant that distress conditions have persisted. Behind the aggregate figures of inflation over the last decade lies a rather brutal reality. Of all the major commodity groups, foodgrain prices have been proportionately the worst affected. If the trajectory of prices were to be plotted over the decade beginning 1990-91, a quick reckoning would show that the prices of manufactured goods just about doubled. In comparison, average prices of the foodgrains bundle that is represented in the wholesale price index, increased by over 2.5 times. The only major commodity group in the case of which prices have increased at a faster pace is in the fuel and lubricants sector. The increase here has been of the order of three. The price trends distinctly suggest that those at the lower end of the scale of income and wealth have suffered the worst of the changing economic priorities of the last decade. That the adverse movement in prices, which tend to put foodgrain out of reach of the masses, has been accompanied by a rapid build-up of stocks with the FCI - now estimated to be over 60 million tonnes against a norm for this time of the year of 25 million tonnes - is an integral part of the paradox of plenty that today confronts the economy. In any long-term view, agriculture in the 1990s had been a crisis waiting to happen. Ever since structural adjustment and the curtailment of the fiscal deficit became the ruling mantras, the impetus to growth in the farm sector has been steadily weakened. In comparison to the 1980s, the growth rate of foodgrain output in the 1990s was almost half - 1.8 per cent against 3.54 per cent. The non-foodgrain economy also presents a picture of stagnation, with growth rates having fallen from a trend figure of 4 per cent in the 1980s to 3.17 per cent in the last decade. It may confound economic commonsense that a decline in output growth should co-exist with crumbling prices in agricultural commodities. This is a paradox that is easily understood in terms of the collapse of demand for these commodities in a global environment dominated by the process of structural adjustment. Massive currency devaluations have created a glut of commodities in the world market, as producers seek to shore up crumbling earnings by pumping in larger volumes. At the same time, falling public investments and vanishing safety nets have meant that purchasing power, especially of the poorer sections, has been rapidly eroded. In India, these realities have worked themselves out in the form of a growing gulf between those sectors of agriculture that benefit from official procurement operations and those that do not. The two principal foodgrains - rice and wheat - account for almost the entire stockholding in the government's warehouses. The minimum support price (MSP) for these two commodities has been increased rapidly over the 1990s, partly to compensate the farm sector for the escalating price of fertilizer and partly to offset a decline in productivity. But with fiscal correction being an obsessive concern, the MSP offered by the government has worked itself out in the form of a higher issue price demanded from the States. Officially issued grain has effectively priced itself out of the market, leading to an enormous accretion of unwanted stocks with the central warehouses. Deficiencies of effective demand work themselves out in the form of stagnant output and collapsing prices in other sectors of agriculture. If grain output has grown, though at declining rates, the best that can be said for other major food crops - oilseeds and pulses - is that they have stagnated. Uncertainties of demand are compounded here by vagaries of the weather, with only around a tenth of the land sown with these crops enjoying the benefit of irrigation. A growing volume of evidence now seems to suggest that this crisis is a consequence of deliberate policy neglect. Investment in agriculture today is in proportionate terms half of what it was in the early-1980s, and public sector investment is less than a third. In the decade of structural adjustment, policy attention has shifted away from building capital assets which could contribute to long-term productivity growth. Rather, the concern now is to get the delicate balance of subsidies right - between increasing the fertilizer price, talking endlessly about levying user charges for canal irrigation and cautiously raising electricity tariffs, the whole pattern of resource use in agriculture has been seriously skewed. Failures of institutional credit have completed this policy of official neglect. These are the broad parameters within which the battle for the right to food has now been taken to the Supreme Court. Judicial fiat could undoubtedly relieve some of the worst immediate consequences of the long-term crisis of Indian agriculture, provided the worst affected sections are made aware of their rights and endowed with the means to enforce them. But the deeper structural problems clearly call for a different approach. When that re-arrangement of priorities will be accomplished and under what political dispensation, is still a matter for the future. ------------------------------ [ Subscribe | Contact Us| Archives | Table of Contents] ------------------------------ [ Home | The Hindu | Business Line | Sportstar ] ------------------------------ Copyrights © 2001, Frontline. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of Frontline ------------------------------ From c.anupam at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 11:53:09 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 11:53:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: <5bedab660907312202k406da437kb96372366de2e8ae@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00907310144vbcb4d37sf40d6bd434ffc18@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310510m7aab8f63q292439a5f0582ea1@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310517w140a20b5r4751e57b4a777bb3@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310535n49ce0d17kc91f83692d9dfb4@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310539j6dc44ff1s99591ea4a60e7085@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310546w12631d90teb9c8ae491c9f0cb@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907310956n772d29acuf8ccda5710a3454f@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907311146o1cf1eecak514d76d9f18537e2@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907312133t6b3a595dg99d54e01c1b43ef1@mail.gmail.com> <5bedab660907312202k406da437kb96372366de2e8ae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907312323u77fb2b8es9790de8533105fe7@mail.gmail.com> Dear Ram, Religiousity can exist without the political baggage of the fanatics. Banning the sects is not a solution but it only proposes homogenisation and a God less world. For some, this faith in god is simple, doesnt need the sanction of fanatical elements. I hope a careful assessment of the religiousity of the people has to be ascertained along with the several other surveys to understand this nation. "We have only two options: either we learn to live with "communal" strive that has become the order of the day or make a complete break with all our past that segregates us and begin anew. Its a tall order we know but nevertheless worth aspiring for. Atleast its better than the current non-sense of just "boycotting the sectarian agendas"." I believe by "tall order" you meant religion or sect or similar things. These terms need introspection clearly in terms of philosophical basis. For settling your personal scores, it is not neccesary that one has find the religion as an excuse. Because most of the religious knowledge or the way it is being structured is in *a priori *form and as we have seen open to interpretations. However, the dynamic and progressive elements for all the religions are intact and often overlooked. Therefore, the appeal for boycott of the sectarian agenda which prescribes killing in the name of the religion still stands as opposed to how you have termed it as nonsensesical. Thanks and regards Anupam On 8/1/09, Pheeta Ram wrote: > > Dear Murali, > Institutions run by religious sects would be like that only otherwise why > would they set > up schools in the name of their religions in the first place. Every > religion has an agenda. > More the followers more the currency. But what i am pointing towards is the > fact that > even a school run by a government, and just imagine how many schools are > there all over > India, indulges in practices, and "uniformly" so, which are nothing short > of proselytisation. > When my son is asked to chant a Hindu Gayatri Mantra, or prayers that talk > of "Atma" and > "Parmatma" isn't it silent conversion to Hindu faith by a government that > needs to be neutral > in terms of religion. > > When you level charges, let me tell you, "opposite is true too." So don't > exert yourself so hard. > Moreover, if i am discriminated against my religion that doesn't give me > the right to read "fatwas" > against people who "just" extend the boundaries of citizenship to our > relief. I won't ask my little son > to go and kill his classmates just because he is being asked to chant a > "mantra" that he has come > to believe he doesn't need to or is unjustified ( given my brainwashing) in > the first place. He has the right > to be nurtured in a world where he is not preordained into the watertight > compartment of some religion. > > Things are not so simple and straightforward as you would have them to be. > In a public discussion forum > everybody needs to be patient and not panic just because some "fan-atic" > has fanned an imaginary jingoitst > or communal frenzy. > > > > > > > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 10:03 AM, Murali V wrote: > >> Dear Anupam, >> I have never nor will I ever talk of destruction of any kind. My only >> concern is that when we talk of secularism, it has to be followed with >> absolute clarity and without any bias. It is only pseudo-secularism which >> is >> the norm. >> >> A school run by christian isnstitutions does not allow hindu boys to come >> with Sandal paste on their foreheadin and with a black towel worn around >> the waist during the fasting period before going to Sabarimala, does not >> allow girls to wear the traditional bindi on their forehead while a school >> run by a hindu institution cannot object to the girl coming to school in a >> Burkha. >> >> The word "uniform" is not applicable to some. >> >> Crores of Tax payers money is spent every year on the Mecca trip, while >> Hindus will have to pay tax to go to the holy shrines atop the himalayas. >> >> Regards, >> >> Murali V >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> tion >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:16 AM, anupam chakravartty > >wrote: >> >> > Dear Murli, >> > I am really sorry to say the stories you have been posting about >> > Murshidabad >> > are far from true. It is the perspective of someone who has a sectarian >> > understanding of the problem. You generalised the gang rivalry in the >> > region >> > to the slaying of the hindus. The problem here lies in the fact in the >> > process of strenghtening your sectarian identity you tend to accomodate >> a >> > lot of devaints who could have otherwise found some gainful employment. >> > Here >> > there were two agrarian gangs fighting for resources like terrorism, >> > manipulation and worst of all, lure of power with the help of fear and >> > threats. >> > I refuse to be manipulated. It is a personal protest demanding a fair >> play. >> > From very close quarters, I have seen the sectarian identity functioning >> > seditiously, poisoning minds which could have done better than what they >> > are >> > doing. I dont want my brethren to be blinded by the propaganda of fear >> from >> > the state's side or from gun runners. Insecurity drives people crazy. A >> > nation full of people, with their aspirations cannot be cheated to >> perform >> > such a heinous crime killing or plundering or looting. They inherently >> want >> > fair play although when manipulated, they needed to be told that there >> is >> > no >> > point in worrying about who you are -- it is about what you are doing. >> > Sir, nation building is not an easy task. Do you think in a homogenous >> > society (as you speak for the Hindu community) you can stop the >> individual >> > aspirations? Lets say as a reaction you chased out devaints of all >> kinds, >> > and only your kinds exist, would you be able to control subversion? You >> > cannot afford to be unfair here. >> > >> > I wont tell you about the multi-sectarian society and benefits that it >> > brings. Because you know what it means and since as a reaction, you have >> > also consciously chosen to deviate from such a possibility of multi >> racial >> > or sectarian society. But whether should i respect this deviance at the >> > cost >> > of accomodating all the wrong doings is something that needs a >> > philosophical >> > understanding. A historical and a subjective (i know this word is likely >> > displease several readers here) understanding always accomodates >> conflicts >> > as the prime reason for all creations sectarian or otherwise (from small >> > panchyats, to the demand for new railway stations to demand for a >> seperate >> > state hood). These reactions are provokative and instead of painful task >> of >> > solving these issues in light of rational solutions, it proposes an >> easier >> > victory over such ailments -- by destruction. It is from here, I said: >> "I >> > would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's an >> assurance >> > to >> > you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas here I will >> > keep >> > on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your claims." You >> are >> > most welcome to critique in the same rational, peaceful way not as >> someone >> > shouting "kill them all" in a discussion forums as this. Killing me is >> not >> > enough Sir. >> > - with warm regards >> > Anupam >> > >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Murali V >> > wrote: >> > >> > > And I shall also try to counter every one of your claims. >> > > Regards, >> > > V Murali >> > > >> > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:16 PM, anupam chakravartty < >> c.anupam at gmail.com >> > >wrote: >> > > >> > >> Dear Rajen >> > >> You can go on and be sectarian. The moderator in this reader's list >> > doesnt >> > >> seem to have a problem. And i respect your democratic rights sir that >> > the >> > >> constitution guarantees you. I am just calling for a boycott of such >> > >> agendas. >> > >> I would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's an >> > >> assurance >> > >> to you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas here I >> > will >> > >> keep on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your claims. >> > Take >> > >> my word for that. >> > >> Best wishes >> > >> Anupam >> > >> >> > >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < >> > >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> > >> > sword is having both sides sharp.Your thoughts apply to all of us, >> as >> > we >> > >> > post. >> > >> > >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Rajen. >> > >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:05 PM, anupam chakravartty < >> > >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> >> Dear Rajen >> > >> >> why are u pointing people, naming them? has anybody named you >> rajen. >> > i >> > >> >> guess >> > >> >> they (as in Taha and Javed) speak of it because you keep on >> > questioning >> > >> >> them >> > >> >> pinpointing them all the time, makign generic statements against a >> > >> >> community >> > >> >> is something that you guys keep doing. i will never forget what >> you >> > >> said >> > >> >> to >> > >> >> meera rizvi (your surname suggest). first clean up your act then >> > point >> > >> out >> > >> >> others >> > >> >> -anupam >> > >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < >> > >> >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > Dear Anupam jee, >> > >> >> > who owns the hindu religion, it i universal way of life, so >> > also >> > >> the >> > >> >> > islam, but why a taha, a javed speak for it, do they own >> islam.?If >> > >> any >> > >> >> of us >> > >> >> > talk of ills our seculars have ready question that we do not >> speak >> > >> for >> > >> >> > hindu, but they join to defend a husain for his right to express >> > art >> > >> in >> > >> >> > deities in his style, but no right to art for his own faith.? >> Art >> > is >> > >> >> > heartless when it is just art, but only commerce. >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > Regards, >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > Rajen. >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:40 PM, anupam chakravartty < >> > >> >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> >> Dear Rajen, >> > >> >> >> My position has been same against all kinds of religious >> > extremism. >> > >> >> along >> > >> >> >> with several other list members have been opposed to these >> issues. >> > >> if u >> > >> >> >> can >> > >> >> >> show me one instance which according to you contradicts my >> earlier >> > >> >> >> position, >> > >> >> >> then i would like withdraw this boycott call from my side. I >> wish >> > to >> > >> >> argue >> > >> >> >> no more on this. i know you do not own hindu religion so my >> advice >> > >> is >> > >> >> that >> > >> >> >> u >> > >> >> >> should assuming this self styled of this religion and criticise >> > >> others. >> > >> >> i >> > >> >> >> do >> > >> >> >> not expect a change of heart from u but in case if that happens >> it >> > >> is >> > >> >> also >> > >> >> >> welcome. >> > >> >> >> - best wishes >> > >> >> >> anupam >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Rakesh Iyer < >> > >> rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com> >> > >> >> >> wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Dear all >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > I just read a story of the Panchatantra, and it seems to >> > resonate >> > >> >> with >> > >> >> >> what >> > >> >> >> > one of my friends told yesterday: 'People change, they do, >> but >> > >> don't >> > >> >> >> force >> > >> >> >> > them to change. They take it at their ego' >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > Here's hoping for that change one day from Murali ji, Rajen >> ji, >> > >> and >> > >> >> >> others >> > >> >> >> > of their like. And no more replies asking them to change or >> > >> >> criticizing >> > >> >> >> > them. >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > Regards >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > Rakesh >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> > >> >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > >> >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> > >> >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith >> > >> >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> > >> >> >> To unsubscribe: >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > >> >> >> List archive: < >> https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > -- >> > >> >> > Rajen. >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> _________________________________________ >> > >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> > >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> > >> >> To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > >> > Rajen. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _________________________________________ >> > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > >> Critiques & Collaborations >> > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > >> subscribe in the subject header. >> > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > From c.anupam at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 11:58:00 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 11:58:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: <341380d00907312323u77fb2b8es9790de8533105fe7@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00907310144vbcb4d37sf40d6bd434ffc18@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310517w140a20b5r4751e57b4a777bb3@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310535n49ce0d17kc91f83692d9dfb4@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310539j6dc44ff1s99591ea4a60e7085@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310546w12631d90teb9c8ae491c9f0cb@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907310956n772d29acuf8ccda5710a3454f@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907311146o1cf1eecak514d76d9f18537e2@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907312133t6b3a595dg99d54e01c1b43ef1@mail.gmail.com> <5bedab660907312202k406da437kb96372366de2e8ae@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907312323u77fb2b8es9790de8533105fe7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907312328u64dd3573nfad22f3d90f081c4@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taraprakash, Thanks for assuming the role of the moderator. For your kind information sir, I have not been reiterating my boycott call over and over again. There are people who are asking question and terming this call nonsensical, i feel i should reply to them. Thanks Anupam On 8/1/09, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > Dear Ram, > > Religiousity can exist without the political baggage of the fanatics. > Banning the sects is not a solution but it only proposes homogenisation and > a God less world. For some, this faith in god is simple, doesnt need the > sanction of fanatical elements. I hope a careful assessment of the > religiousity of the people has to be ascertained along with the several > other surveys to understand this nation. > > "We have only two options: either we learn to live with "communal" strive > that has > become the order of the day or make a complete break with all our past that > segregates us > and begin anew. Its a tall order we know but nevertheless worth aspiring > for. Atleast its better > than the current non-sense of just "boycotting the sectarian agendas"." > > I believe by "tall order" you meant religion or sect or similar things. > These terms need introspection clearly in terms of philosophical basis. For > settling your personal scores, it is not neccesary that one has find the > religion as an excuse. Because most of the religious knowledge or the way it > is being structured is in *a priori *form and as we have seen open to > interpretations. However, the dynamic and progressive elements for all the > religions are intact and often overlooked. > > Therefore, the appeal for boycott of the sectarian agenda which prescribes > killing in the name of the religion still stands as opposed to how you have > termed it as nonsensesical. > > Thanks and regards > Anupam > > > > On 8/1/09, Pheeta Ram wrote: >> >> Dear Murali, >> Institutions run by religious sects would be like that only otherwise why >> would they set >> up schools in the name of their religions in the first place. Every >> religion has an agenda. >> More the followers more the currency. But what i am pointing towards is >> the fact that >> even a school run by a government, and just imagine how many schools are >> there all over >> India, indulges in practices, and "uniformly" so, which are nothing short >> of proselytisation. >> When my son is asked to chant a Hindu Gayatri Mantra, or prayers that talk >> of "Atma" and >> "Parmatma" isn't it silent conversion to Hindu faith by a government that >> needs to be neutral >> in terms of religion. >> >> When you level charges, let me tell you, "opposite is true too." So don't >> exert yourself so hard. >> Moreover, if i am discriminated against my religion that doesn't give me >> the right to read "fatwas" >> against people who "just" extend the boundaries of citizenship to our >> relief. I won't ask my little son >> to go and kill his classmates just because he is being asked to chant a >> "mantra" that he has come >> to believe he doesn't need to or is unjustified ( given my brainwashing) >> in the first place. He has the right >> to be nurtured in a world where he is not preordained into the watertight >> compartment of some religion. >> >> Things are not so simple and straightforward as you would have them to be. >> In a public discussion forum >> everybody needs to be patient and not panic just because some "fan-atic" >> has fanned an imaginary jingoitst >> or communal frenzy. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 10:03 AM, Murali V wrote: >> >>> Dear Anupam, >>> I have never nor will I ever talk of destruction of any kind. My only >>> concern is that when we talk of secularism, it has to be followed with >>> absolute clarity and without any bias. It is only pseudo-secularism which >>> is >>> the norm. >>> >>> A school run by christian isnstitutions does not allow hindu boys to come >>> with Sandal paste on their foreheadin and with a black towel worn around >>> the waist during the fasting period before going to Sabarimala, does not >>> allow girls to wear the traditional bindi on their forehead while a >>> school >>> run by a hindu institution cannot object to the girl coming to school in >>> a >>> Burkha. >>> >>> The word "uniform" is not applicable to some. >>> >>> Crores of Tax payers money is spent every year on the Mecca trip, while >>> Hindus will have to pay tax to go to the holy shrines atop the himalayas. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Murali V >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> tion >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:16 AM, anupam chakravartty >> >wrote: >>> >>> > Dear Murli, >>> > I am really sorry to say the stories you have been posting about >>> > Murshidabad >>> > are far from true. It is the perspective of someone who has a sectarian >>> > understanding of the problem. You generalised the gang rivalry in the >>> > region >>> > to the slaying of the hindus. The problem here lies in the fact in the >>> > process of strenghtening your sectarian identity you tend to accomodate >>> a >>> > lot of devaints who could have otherwise found some gainful employment. >>> > Here >>> > there were two agrarian gangs fighting for resources like terrorism, >>> > manipulation and worst of all, lure of power with the help of fear and >>> > threats. >>> > I refuse to be manipulated. It is a personal protest demanding a fair >>> play. >>> > From very close quarters, I have seen the sectarian identity >>> functioning >>> > seditiously, poisoning minds which could have done better than what >>> they >>> > are >>> > doing. I dont want my brethren to be blinded by the propaganda of fear >>> from >>> > the state's side or from gun runners. Insecurity drives people crazy. A >>> > nation full of people, with their aspirations cannot be cheated to >>> perform >>> > such a heinous crime killing or plundering or looting. They inherently >>> want >>> > fair play although when manipulated, they needed to be told that there >>> is >>> > no >>> > point in worrying about who you are -- it is about what you are doing. >>> > Sir, nation building is not an easy task. Do you think in a homogenous >>> > society (as you speak for the Hindu community) you can stop the >>> individual >>> > aspirations? Lets say as a reaction you chased out devaints of all >>> kinds, >>> > and only your kinds exist, would you be able to control subversion? You >>> > cannot afford to be unfair here. >>> > >>> > I wont tell you about the multi-sectarian society and benefits that it >>> > brings. Because you know what it means and since as a reaction, you >>> have >>> > also consciously chosen to deviate from such a possibility of multi >>> racial >>> > or sectarian society. But whether should i respect this deviance at the >>> > cost >>> > of accomodating all the wrong doings is something that needs a >>> > philosophical >>> > understanding. A historical and a subjective (i know this word is >>> likely >>> > displease several readers here) understanding always accomodates >>> conflicts >>> > as the prime reason for all creations sectarian or otherwise (from >>> small >>> > panchyats, to the demand for new railway stations to demand for a >>> seperate >>> > state hood). These reactions are provokative and instead of painful >>> task of >>> > solving these issues in light of rational solutions, it proposes an >>> easier >>> > victory over such ailments -- by destruction. It is from here, I said: >>> "I >>> > would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's an >>> assurance >>> > to >>> > you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas here I will >>> > keep >>> > on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your claims." You >>> are >>> > most welcome to critique in the same rational, peaceful way not as >>> someone >>> > shouting "kill them all" in a discussion forums as this. Killing me is >>> not >>> > enough Sir. >>> > - with warm regards >>> > Anupam >>> > >>> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Murali V >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > > And I shall also try to counter every one of your claims. >>> > > Regards, >>> > > V Murali >>> > > >>> > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:16 PM, anupam chakravartty < >>> c.anupam at gmail.com >>> > >wrote: >>> > > >>> > >> Dear Rajen >>> > >> You can go on and be sectarian. The moderator in this reader's list >>> > doesnt >>> > >> seem to have a problem. And i respect your democratic rights sir >>> that >>> > the >>> > >> constitution guarantees you. I am just calling for a boycott of such >>> > >> agendas. >>> > >> I would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's an >>> > >> assurance >>> > >> to you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas here >>> I >>> > will >>> > >> keep on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your >>> claims. >>> > Take >>> > >> my word for that. >>> > >> Best wishes >>> > >> Anupam >>> > >> >>> > >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < >>> > >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: >>> > >> >>> > >> > sword is having both sides sharp.Your thoughts apply to all of us, >>> as >>> > we >>> > >> > post. >>> > >> > >>> > >> > Regards, >>> > >> > Rajen. >>> > >> > >>> > >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:05 PM, anupam chakravartty < >>> > >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: >>> > >> > >>> > >> >> Dear Rajen >>> > >> >> why are u pointing people, naming them? has anybody named you >>> rajen. >>> > i >>> > >> >> guess >>> > >> >> they (as in Taha and Javed) speak of it because you keep on >>> > questioning >>> > >> >> them >>> > >> >> pinpointing them all the time, makign generic statements against >>> a >>> > >> >> community >>> > >> >> is something that you guys keep doing. i will never forget what >>> you >>> > >> said >>> > >> >> to >>> > >> >> meera rizvi (your surname suggest). first clean up your act then >>> > point >>> > >> out >>> > >> >> others >>> > >> >> -anupam >>> > >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < >>> > >> >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> > Dear Anupam jee, >>> > >> >> > who owns the hindu religion, it i universal way of life, so >>> > also >>> > >> the >>> > >> >> > islam, but why a taha, a javed speak for it, do they own >>> islam.?If >>> > >> any >>> > >> >> of us >>> > >> >> > talk of ills our seculars have ready question that we do not >>> speak >>> > >> for >>> > >> >> > hindu, but they join to defend a husain for his right to >>> express >>> > art >>> > >> in >>> > >> >> > deities in his style, but no right to art for his own faith.? >>> Art >>> > is >>> > >> >> > heartless when it is just art, but only commerce. >>> > >> >> > >>> > >> >> > Regards, >>> > >> >> > >>> > >> >> > Rajen. >>> > >> >> > >>> > >> >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:40 PM, anupam chakravartty < >>> > >> >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: >>> > >> >> > >>> > >> >> >> Dear Rajen, >>> > >> >> >> My position has been same against all kinds of religious >>> > extremism. >>> > >> >> along >>> > >> >> >> with several other list members have been opposed to these >>> issues. >>> > >> if u >>> > >> >> >> can >>> > >> >> >> show me one instance which according to you contradicts my >>> earlier >>> > >> >> >> position, >>> > >> >> >> then i would like withdraw this boycott call from my side. I >>> wish >>> > to >>> > >> >> argue >>> > >> >> >> no more on this. i know you do not own hindu religion so my >>> advice >>> > >> is >>> > >> >> that >>> > >> >> >> u >>> > >> >> >> should assuming this self styled of this religion and >>> criticise >>> > >> others. >>> > >> >> i >>> > >> >> >> do >>> > >> >> >> not expect a change of heart from u but in case if that >>> happens it >>> > >> is >>> > >> >> also >>> > >> >> >> welcome. >>> > >> >> >> - best wishes >>> > >> >> >> anupam >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Rakesh Iyer < >>> > >> rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com> >>> > >> >> >> wrote: >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> > Dear all >>> > >> >> >> > >>> > >> >> >> > I just read a story of the Panchatantra, and it seems to >>> > resonate >>> > >> >> with >>> > >> >> >> what >>> > >> >> >> > one of my friends told yesterday: 'People change, they do, >>> but >>> > >> don't >>> > >> >> >> force >>> > >> >> >> > them to change. They take it at their ego' >>> > >> >> >> > >>> > >> >> >> > Here's hoping for that change one day from Murali ji, Rajen >>> ji, >>> > >> and >>> > >> >> >> others >>> > >> >> >> > of their like. And no more replies asking them to change or >>> > >> >> criticizing >>> > >> >> >> > them. >>> > >> >> >> > >>> > >> >> >> > Regards >>> > >> >> >> > >>> > >> >> >> > Rakesh >>> > >> >> >> > >>> > >> >> >> _________________________________________ >>> > >> >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> > >> >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >>> > >> >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith >>> > >> >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >>> > >> >> >> To unsubscribe: >>> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > >> >> >> List archive: < >>> https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> > >>> > >> >> > >>> > >> >> > >>> > >> >> > -- >>> > >> >> > Rajen. >>> > >> >> > >>> > >> >> > >>> > >> >> _________________________________________ >>> > >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> > >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >>> > >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith >>> > >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >>> > >> >> To unsubscribe: >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > -- >>> > >> > Rajen. >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> _________________________________________ >>> > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> > >> Critiques & Collaborations >>> > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> > >> subscribe in the subject header. >>> > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> > >> >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _________________________________________ >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> > subscribe in the subject header. >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> > >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> >> > From murali.chalam at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 12:00:28 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:00:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: <5bedab660907312202k406da437kb96372366de2e8ae@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00907310144vbcb4d37sf40d6bd434ffc18@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310510m7aab8f63q292439a5f0582ea1@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310517w140a20b5r4751e57b4a777bb3@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310535n49ce0d17kc91f83692d9dfb4@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310539j6dc44ff1s99591ea4a60e7085@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310546w12631d90teb9c8ae491c9f0cb@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907310956n772d29acuf8ccda5710a3454f@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907311146o1cf1eecak514d76d9f18537e2@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907312133t6b3a595dg99d54e01c1b43ef1@mail.gmail.com> <5bedab660907312202k406da437kb96372366de2e8ae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870907312330h61e61fc5o398b0db4f0456b15@mail.gmail.com> Dear Anupam, Dear Anupam, The issue of uniformity has still not been addressed. A burkha clad girl in a school cannot be questioned and if done, the media and the entire pseudo-seculars go all out to call it hindu fanaticism. Atma or the soul, life after death and re-birth are concepts which is their in most faiths. Moreover the Gaytri mantra is also a breathing exercise as the stanzas repeated in its correct form has set timings to control breath. Regards, V Murali On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Pheeta Ram wrote: > Dear Murali, > Institutions run by religious sects would be like that only otherwise why > would they set > up schools in the name of their religions in the first place. Every > religion has an agenda. > More the followers more the currency. But what i am pointing towards is the > fact that > even a school run by a government, and just imagine how many schools are > there all over > India, indulges in practices, and "uniformly" so, which are nothing short > of proselytisation. > When my son is asked to chant a Hindu Gayatri Mantra, or prayers that talk > of "Atma" and > "Parmatma" isn't it silent conversion to Hindu faith by a government that > needs to be neutral > in terms of religion. > > When you level charges, let me tell you, "opposite is true too." So don't > exert yourself so hard. > Moreover, if i am discriminated against my religion that doesn't give me > the right to read "fatwas" > against people who "just" extend the boundaries of citizenship to our > relief. I won't ask my little son > to go and kill his classmates just because he is being asked to chant a > "mantra" that he has come > to believe he doesn't need to or is unjustified ( given my brainwashing) in > the first place. He has the right > to be nurtured in a world where he is not preordained into the watertight > compartment of some religion. > > Things are not so simple and straightforward as you would have them to be. > In a public discussion forum > everybody needs to be patient and not panic just because some "fan-atic" > has fanned an imaginary jingoitst > or communal frenzy. > > > > > > > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 10:03 AM, Murali V wrote: > >> Dear Anupam, >> I have never nor will I ever talk of destruction of any kind. My only >> concern is that when we talk of secularism, it has to be followed with >> absolute clarity and without any bias. It is only pseudo-secularism which >> is >> the norm. >> >> A school run by christian isnstitutions does not allow hindu boys to come >> with Sandal paste on their foreheadin and with a black towel worn around >> the waist during the fasting period before going to Sabarimala, does not >> allow girls to wear the traditional bindi on their forehead while a school >> run by a hindu institution cannot object to the girl coming to school in a >> Burkha. >> >> The word "uniform" is not applicable to some. >> >> Crores of Tax payers money is spent every year on the Mecca trip, while >> Hindus will have to pay tax to go to the holy shrines atop the himalayas. >> >> Regards, >> >> Murali V >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> tion >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:16 AM, anupam chakravartty > >wrote: >> >> > Dear Murli, >> > I am really sorry to say the stories you have been posting about >> > Murshidabad >> > are far from true. It is the perspective of someone who has a sectarian >> > understanding of the problem. You generalised the gang rivalry in the >> > region >> > to the slaying of the hindus. The problem here lies in the fact in the >> > process of strenghtening your sectarian identity you tend to accomodate >> a >> > lot of devaints who could have otherwise found some gainful employment. >> > Here >> > there were two agrarian gangs fighting for resources like terrorism, >> > manipulation and worst of all, lure of power with the help of fear and >> > threats. >> > I refuse to be manipulated. It is a personal protest demanding a fair >> play. >> > From very close quarters, I have seen the sectarian identity functioning >> > seditiously, poisoning minds which could have done better than what they >> > are >> > doing. I dont want my brethren to be blinded by the propaganda of fear >> from >> > the state's side or from gun runners. Insecurity drives people crazy. A >> > nation full of people, with their aspirations cannot be cheated to >> perform >> > such a heinous crime killing or plundering or looting. They inherently >> want >> > fair play although when manipulated, they needed to be told that there >> is >> > no >> > point in worrying about who you are -- it is about what you are doing. >> > Sir, nation building is not an easy task. Do you think in a homogenous >> > society (as you speak for the Hindu community) you can stop the >> individual >> > aspirations? Lets say as a reaction you chased out devaints of all >> kinds, >> > and only your kinds exist, would you be able to control subversion? You >> > cannot afford to be unfair here. >> > >> > I wont tell you about the multi-sectarian society and benefits that it >> > brings. Because you know what it means and since as a reaction, you have >> > also consciously chosen to deviate from such a possibility of multi >> racial >> > or sectarian society. But whether should i respect this deviance at the >> > cost >> > of accomodating all the wrong doings is something that needs a >> > philosophical >> > understanding. A historical and a subjective (i know this word is likely >> > displease several readers here) understanding always accomodates >> conflicts >> > as the prime reason for all creations sectarian or otherwise (from small >> > panchyats, to the demand for new railway stations to demand for a >> seperate >> > state hood). These reactions are provokative and instead of painful task >> of >> > solving these issues in light of rational solutions, it proposes an >> easier >> > victory over such ailments -- by destruction. It is from here, I said: >> "I >> > would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's an >> assurance >> > to >> > you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas here I will >> > keep >> > on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your claims." You >> are >> > most welcome to critique in the same rational, peaceful way not as >> someone >> > shouting "kill them all" in a discussion forums as this. Killing me is >> not >> > enough Sir. >> > - with warm regards >> > Anupam >> > >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Murali V >> > wrote: >> > >> > > And I shall also try to counter every one of your claims. >> > > Regards, >> > > V Murali >> > > >> > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:16 PM, anupam chakravartty < >> c.anupam at gmail.com >> > >wrote: >> > > >> > >> Dear Rajen >> > >> You can go on and be sectarian. The moderator in this reader's list >> > doesnt >> > >> seem to have a problem. And i respect your democratic rights sir that >> > the >> > >> constitution guarantees you. I am just calling for a boycott of such >> > >> agendas. >> > >> I would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's an >> > >> assurance >> > >> to you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas here I >> > will >> > >> keep on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your claims. >> > Take >> > >> my word for that. >> > >> Best wishes >> > >> Anupam >> > >> >> > >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < >> > >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> > >> > sword is having both sides sharp.Your thoughts apply to all of us, >> as >> > we >> > >> > post. >> > >> > >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Rajen. >> > >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:05 PM, anupam chakravartty < >> > >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> >> Dear Rajen >> > >> >> why are u pointing people, naming them? has anybody named you >> rajen. >> > i >> > >> >> guess >> > >> >> they (as in Taha and Javed) speak of it because you keep on >> > questioning >> > >> >> them >> > >> >> pinpointing them all the time, makign generic statements against a >> > >> >> community >> > >> >> is something that you guys keep doing. i will never forget what >> you >> > >> said >> > >> >> to >> > >> >> meera rizvi (your surname suggest). first clean up your act then >> > point >> > >> out >> > >> >> others >> > >> >> -anupam >> > >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < >> > >> >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > Dear Anupam jee, >> > >> >> > who owns the hindu religion, it i universal way of life, so >> > also >> > >> the >> > >> >> > islam, but why a taha, a javed speak for it, do they own >> islam.?If >> > >> any >> > >> >> of us >> > >> >> > talk of ills our seculars have ready question that we do not >> speak >> > >> for >> > >> >> > hindu, but they join to defend a husain for his right to express >> > art >> > >> in >> > >> >> > deities in his style, but no right to art for his own faith.? >> Art >> > is >> > >> >> > heartless when it is just art, but only commerce. >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > Regards, >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > Rajen. >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:40 PM, anupam chakravartty < >> > >> >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> >> Dear Rajen, >> > >> >> >> My position has been same against all kinds of religious >> > extremism. >> > >> >> along >> > >> >> >> with several other list members have been opposed to these >> issues. >> > >> if u >> > >> >> >> can >> > >> >> >> show me one instance which according to you contradicts my >> earlier >> > >> >> >> position, >> > >> >> >> then i would like withdraw this boycott call from my side. I >> wish >> > to >> > >> >> argue >> > >> >> >> no more on this. i know you do not own hindu religion so my >> advice >> > >> is >> > >> >> that >> > >> >> >> u >> > >> >> >> should assuming this self styled of this religion and criticise >> > >> others. >> > >> >> i >> > >> >> >> do >> > >> >> >> not expect a change of heart from u but in case if that happens >> it >> > >> is >> > >> >> also >> > >> >> >> welcome. >> > >> >> >> - best wishes >> > >> >> >> anupam >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Rakesh Iyer < >> > >> rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com> >> > >> >> >> wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Dear all >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > I just read a story of the Panchatantra, and it seems to >> > resonate >> > >> >> with >> > >> >> >> what >> > >> >> >> > one of my friends told yesterday: 'People change, they do, >> but >> > >> don't >> > >> >> >> force >> > >> >> >> > them to change. They take it at their ego' >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > Here's hoping for that change one day from Murali ji, Rajen >> ji, >> > >> and >> > >> >> >> others >> > >> >> >> > of their like. And no more replies asking them to change or >> > >> >> criticizing >> > >> >> >> > them. >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > Regards >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > Rakesh >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> > >> >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > >> >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> > >> >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith >> > >> >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> > >> >> >> To unsubscribe: >> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > >> >> >> List archive: < >> https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > -- >> > >> >> > Rajen. >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> _________________________________________ >> > >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> > >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> > >> >> To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > >> > Rajen. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _________________________________________ >> > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > >> Critiques & Collaborations >> > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > >> subscribe in the subject header. >> > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 12:00:49 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:00:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Link: http://www.hinduonnet.com/2003/01/18/stories/2003011800081000.htm Article: Online edition of India's National Newspaper Saturday, Jan 18, 2003 Group Publications Business Line The Sportstar Frontline The Hindu About Us Contact Us *Opinion* News: Front Page | National | Southern States | Other States| International | Opinion| Business | Sport| Miscellaneous | Advts: Classifieds | Employment | Obituary| Opinion - Leader Page Articles [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] * Right to food * By C. Rammanohar Reddy * Considering the way the Right to Food campaign has grown... it could turn into a mass movement that is able to force state and society to finally tackle the problem of hunger in India. * QUIETLY AND effectively, a nationwide public campaign has built up over the past couple of years to pressure the state to address nutritional deficiencies among many groups of Indian citizens. There is much to yet achieve, but using a number of techniques this loosely knit and decentralised "Right to Food" campaign has already forced some changes on the Central and State Governments. What is unusual is that this has been entirely a citizens' effort, with mainstream political parties by and large keeping away from a campaign which, if it maintains its momentum, is likely to have a substantial impact on people's lives. The political classes may have their eyes focussed on the business and pravasi conclaves, but unbeknownst to them and without their involvement something more important is happening in the public arena. The Right to Food campaign has been the one serious attempt to deal with the obscene phenomenon of overflowing godowns of food co-existing with chronic under-nutrition in the country. In the late 1990s, more than half of Indian women suffered from anaemia, more than 45 per cent of children were malnourished and more than a third of newborn children suffered from low birth weight. Yet, the huge public food stocks — which reached a peak of 65 million tonnes in late 2001 and now stand at 55 million tonnes — have not been used by the state for a frontal attack on under-nutrition in the country. It is now being pushed by this campaign to react. A series of events since 2001 has catalysed and given momentum to the "Right to Food" campaign. In 2001, local groups in Rajasthan began putting pressure on the State Government to use the Central stocks to deal with the effects of the drought the previous year. In May 2001, the People's Union for Civil Liberties filed what could turn out to be a landmark public interest petition in the Supreme Court, drawing attention to the accumulation of stocks. In April 2002, a nationwide day of events was organised to demand implementation of the mid-day meal scheme. In 2002, individual groups highlighted the occurrence of starvation deaths in Orissa, Rajasthan and Jharkhand. These groups have also organised "public hearings" to put pressure on local governments to respond to starvation deaths, corruption in the public distribution system (PDS) and the failure to implement welfare schemes. This culminated earlier this month in a `national' hearing in Delhi where citizens and representatives from non-governmental organisations in 12 States gathered to hear "voices of hunger" and draw up an agenda to take public action further. The Right to Food campaign has been at least partly responsible for getting the Centre to lower PDS prices in late 2001 and has been exerting pressure to expand the Antyodaya Anna Yojana, the programme which supplies subsidised grain to the destitute and which by all accounts has been, even for a government programme, reasonably successful in most parts of the country. In the campaign are a number of citizens' groups, many of whom are involved in other areas of work, who share a common interest in making the state fulfil its constitutional duties. One leg of the Right to Food campaign is in the new tradition of drawing attention to the Constitution to make the Central and State Governments accountable for their (lack of) action. There was the right to information campaign, initially organised by the Mazdoor Kisan Shakti Sangathan of Rajasthan in the late 1990s, which resulted in legislative action at the State and Central Government levels to make the administration more transparent. Then there was the right to education campaign, which led to the amendment to the Constitution to make elementary education a fundamental right. And now we have the food campaign. While the PUCL petition was based on a reading of Article 21 (the right to life), more recently the activists have focussed attention on the directive principle contained in Article 47: "The State shall regard the raising of the level of nutrition and the standard of living of its people and the improvement of the public health among its primary duties..." Since 2001 the Supreme Court has issued a number of interim orders that have prodded the Central and State Governments into action. The orders have directed the State Governments to complete identification of the beneficiaries of welfare programmes, improve implementation of food schemes such as the AAY and employment programmes such as the Sampoorna Grameen Rozgar Yojana and led to the appointment of commissioners to monitor progress in executing the court's rulings. The most important order came in November 2001 when the court directed the State Government to implement a cooked mid-day meal scheme for primary school children. This went further than the existing Central Government scheme (on paper in many States) in which only grain was supplied to the States. The follow-up by the State Governments has not been entirely satisfactory. But there has been progress. Rajasthan has complied with the court order, Karnataka and Chhattisgarh have introduced the programme in some parts of the State and more recently Andhra Pradesh has begun a cooked mid-day meal programme for children. In the meanwhile, the campaign continues to maintain pressure on the State Governments to improve implementation. After achieving a measure of success in focussing judicial, executive and public attention on the food consumption issue, the campaign has, after the recent public hearing in Delhi, drawn up a five-point "call for action": social security for the destitute as a matter of right, revamping of the PDS, recognition of the right to work, expansion of financial allocations for food programmes and implementation of the Supreme Court's directions. As the Right to Food campaign builds up momentum, it will inevitably have to deal with three sets of issues, two of which have already cropped up in the five-point call for action. The first is that is it possible to operationalise the right to food — even `only' for the destitute — without explicit recognition of the right to work? If the right to work too moves centre stage then the question becomes one of state funding and organisation of employment guarantee programmes, to begin with for unskilled labour. It then will become imperative to pressure the state to substantially fund existing and new employment programmes. This is not impossible, but it does widen the campaign. The second and equally important issue is that the food mountain of 55 million tonnes does permit expansion of the AAY and also channel grain to expanded work programmes. A permanent and substantial expansion of food and employment programmes will, however, require the state to commit financial resources, not to mention increase procurement to keep the programmes going once the present food mountain is run down. This too is doable, if we accept, as we should, that meeting the right to food should be a top priority for the country. The third issue is how far this public action programme can go without the support of the parliamentary political parties. Expanding the agenda and increasing its effectiveness will require involvement of the political organisations. Unfortunately, the political class has other agendas to pursue. Yet, considering the way the Right to Food campaign has grown in the past couple of years and considering the success it has had, it could turn into a mass movement that is able to force state and society to finally tackle the problem of hunger in India. * * Printer friendly page Send this article to Friends by E-Mail Opinion News: Front Page | National | Southern States | Other States| International | Opinion| Business | Sport| Miscellaneous | Advts: Classifieds | Employment | Obituary| Stories in this Section - Change of guard in Maharashtra - An incautious approach - Right to food - The seven sisters of South Asia - The sunny side of the 'Raj' - Pant and Mayawati - Leadership change - Dual citizenship - Recasting policy Archives Yesterday's Issue Datewise Features: Life Magazine Literary Review Metro Plus Open Page Education Book Review Business SciTech Entertainment Young World Quest Folio ------------------------------ The Hindu Group: Home | About Us| Copyright | Archives| Contacts | Subscription Group Sites: The Hindu | Business Line| The Sportstar | Frontline| Home | Copyright © 2003, The Hindu. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of The Hindu ------------------------------ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 12:07:04 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:07:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 3 Message-ID: Link: http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2010/stories/20030523002008800.htm Article: ------------------------------ [image: Frontline] *Volume 20 - Issue 10, May 10 - 23, 2003* India's National Magazine from the publishers of THE HINDU Home *•* Contents ------------------------------ [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] *CAMPAIGNS* * Spotlighting hunger * T.K. RAJALAKSHMI *in New Delhi* * A convention of working-class and peasant women organised in New Delhi by AIDWA calls upon the Central government to ensure food security and employment for all. * PICTURES: T.K. RAJALAKSHMI * At the convention, a section of the participants. * ON April 24, hundreds of working-class and landless peasant women from various parts of the country participated in a day-long convention in the national capital on the right to food and employment, organised by the All India Democratic Women's Association (AIDWA). They spoke in different languages but articulated the same demand - ensure food security and employment for all. The day was also the 10th anniversary of the ratification of the 73rd and 74th amendments to the Constitution, which reserved one-third of the seats in the local bodies for women. The convention drew a link between the right to food security and employment with the amendments. It was pointed out that women's participation in local bodies was meaningless if the right to food security and employment was not guaranteed. The convention declared that the demand for food and work was related to strengthening grassroots democracy and women's participation in it. The convention blamed economic policies of the National Democratic Alliance (NDA) government for the rising prices and unemployment, the lack of purchasing power, and the unavailability of foodgrains at subsidised prices. This, in turn, increased the hardship of the working class, especially the rural poor, it observed. It was pointed out that the poor did not get even three meals a day while the warehouses of the Food Corporation of India (FCI) were overflowing and the government exported 9.6 million tonnes of foodgrains at the rate of Rs.4 a kg, a price lower than the rates fixed for foodgrains allotted to families living below the poverty line (BPL). The participants lambasted the targeted Public Distribution System (TPDS), essentially a World Bank prescription, which called for differentiating between the "moderately poor" and the "very poor". The declaration adopted by the convention noted that it was an intrinsically flawed approach to divide the poor people into above poverty line (APL) and BPL categories. The convention expressed concern over the fact that the prices of BPL foodgrains had steadily escalated since 1996, the year the TPDS system came into existence. Initially, when the price of BPL foodgrains was reduced by two-thirds, the offtake increased to 80 per cent of the allocated foodgrains. However, in the subsequent years the BPL rates were hiked, making it impossible for even BPL families to purchase the foodgrains, and the offtake plunged. The Central government claimed that people were not buying the foodgrain as they did not need it. It failed to see that they were not buying as they did not have the purchasing power. It was pointed out that while the government claimed that poverty levels had come down, data provided by the National Health Survey showed that almost half of the Indian population did not get enough food and was malnourished, and that 80 per cent of Indian women were anaemic. Over the last year, the AIDWA conducted dharnas in front of FCI godowns in various Statesto drive home the point that desperation and hunger had reached unimaginable levels and that overflowing granaries and empty bellies could not coexist. The convention demanded that the PDS be universalised and all BPL card-holders be given rations at Antyodaya rates (Rs.3 a kg for rice and Rs.2 a kg for wheat); all widows, single adult women, disabled persons, persons over the age of 60 and female-headed families, regardless of whether they held BPL cards or not, be given immediate access to grain at these prices; ration quotas be decided on the basis of individual rather than family necessities; the foodgrain component of all employment-related schemes be calculated at Antyodaya prices (currently they are calculated at BPL rates); an earlier provision to ensure that 30 per cent of all work days be given to women in order to enhance their participation be implemented; and the right to work be made a fundamental right. The convention also demanded that radical changes be made in the measurement of poverty in order to include indicators such as malnourishment and quantum of family income spent on food requirements. Gender-segregated data were also essential for the accurate assessment of poverty, it noted. ADDRESSING the convention, AIDWA general secretary Brinda Karat alleged that the process of survey of families to categorise them as APL or BPL was arbitrary and hypocritical. She cited an example from Uttar Pradesh where a landless widow with four minor sons was put in the APL category only because the surveyors felt that her sons would be assets when they grew up. Brinda Karat said that though a substantial percentage of people in various States were eligible for food rations at rates designated for BPL families, they had been excluded from that category. She said the situation was so pathetic that even today there were many families that ate a paste made from red chillies to "kill" their hunger pangs. Referring to the situation in Tripura, former Communist Party of India (Marxist) legislator Sandhya Deb Burman said that while 65 per cent of the State's population should have come under the BPL category, only 35 per cent had been covered under it. She said that in the interior areas of the State, the threat from terrorists made it difficult for people to reach fair price shops. She said that the Central allocation of foodgrains to the State was much less than the requirement. However, the State government had initiated several steps to aid the farming community's efforts to become self-sufficient, she said. Mehazabeen from Gujarat had to take refuge in a relief camp after her house was destroyed in the communal violence in 2002. She said that the foodgrain given by the State government to the survivors of the communal violence was unfit for human consumption. Mehazabeen said that when homes were burnt, almost everybody lost their ration cards. However, the government was yet to restore the cards. She spoke of the rampant unemployment in Gujarat and said that women worked in the State for less than Rs.10 a day. The story of Gomti Shakya, from neighbouring Rajasthan, was equally moving. The hardship endured by the State's people, who are in the grip of a severe drought for the fifth consecutive year, speaks volumes about the callousness of the Central and State governments. Gomti Shakya, a Dalit woman who hails from Ganganagar district, said that the people's suffering was compounded by the shortage of work. She spoke of the plight of the people in border villages such as Malkot, Pakki, Orki and Daulatpura, where the mines laid by the Army had killed several people and cattle and destroyed the mustard and wheat crops. The drought conditions made sowing meaningless, and relief work was inadequate. Gomti Shakya said that the desperate situation forced women from 32 villages to organise themselves and picket the Collector's office demanding foodgrains. However, despite the agreement reached with the Collector, no foodgrain was supplied. "We were desperate to get at least one kg of flour," said Gomti Shakya. She said that the village panchayat members and the Patwari had complete control over the foodgrain in villages. Women were so desperate to get work that they worked for as little as Rs.5 a day. Gomti Shakya and others collected foodgrains from the town and distributed it among the needy. "What kind of a life do we lead sisters, without food, without water? The only way out is struggle," she exhorted the participants. * AIDWA general secretary Brinda Karat addressing the convention. * The need for struggle was also echoed by Kamlesh from Hisar in Haryana. She said that the food-for-work programmes were corruption-ridden. The sarpanch of her village encouraged the use of tractors in the drought relief work at the cost of manual labour. Several rural women led by the AIDWA got the sarpanch to reverse his decision. Abhijit Sen, former Chairman of the Commission for Agricultural Costs and Prices, the current Chairperson of the high-level committee to formulate a long-term foodgrain policy, and senior Professor at the Centre for Economic Studies and Planning at the Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi, told the convention that one of the suggestions of the high-level committee, set up by the Union Ministry of Agriculture, was the restoration of the universalised PDS. He said that with the pattern of multiple foodgrain cards, the benefits of health and education also got divided. The committee had also recommended a widening of the Antyodaya scheme (to include the poorest of the poor, estimated by the government to number one crore; removal of the categories of APL and BPL; and an increase in employment schemes, Sen said. He said that another suggestion was that every family be given 60 days of employment in a year and foodgrains at the rates of the Antyodaya scheme. The committee has also made significant recommendations on the grain offtake side, which include reverting to the earlier unified PDS and fixing a uniform central issue price (CIP) of Rs.4.50 a kg for wheat and Rs.6 a kg for rice. This move, it was observed, would bring many of the "poor and moderately poor" people, who do not technically fall under the BPL category, back to the ration shops. The committee submitted its report recently and now the onus is on the government to implement it. Substantiating the observations of the Sen Committee were the narratives of the women. Laxmibai from Ranga Reddy district of Andhra Pradesh said that severe poverty characterised the majority of the blocks in her district. She said that rice was sold at the unaffordable rate of Rs.5.50 a kg. She spoke of instances where people sold their girl children and men even mortgaged their wives. The drought relief work, she said, was task-based, and it took more than one person from a family to complete the task through the entire day though the wages paid were very low. Two women from Andhra Pradesh, Ratnamala and Padma, were honoured by the convention as they had on March 8, International Women's Day, broken the locks of the government foodgrain godowns and gone to jail. "I am also a Dalit, like our Chief Minister Mayawati, but our lives are different," said Rajdulari from Uttar Pradesh. Referring to the recent political rallies held in Uttar Pradesh, she wondered why the Bahujan Samaj Party did not set up factories instead so that the unemployed youth could get work. Rajdulari said that the government did not regard poor families with male children as eligible for BPL cards. "You have sons, therefore you are not poor," was the reaction of the survey officials, she said. She expressed deep resentment for the Dalit leadership in her State, which had misled Dalits with false promises. Evidently, there was rampant discrimination and arbitrariness in the identification of BPL families in almost every part of the country. Ameerunissa from Karnataka said that the "green card" survey was on in her State and those households that owned a bicycle or a television were considered ineligible for BPL cards, irrespective of whether such homes were in an overall economic crisis. She said that the foodgrain available in the panchayats was "rotten" and that even the mid-day meals were not nutritious. Addressing the convention, CPI(M) general secretary Harkishan Singh Surjeet exhorted the women to carry on with their struggles, as it was the only language that the authorities understood. He said that the decisions arrived at the convention had to be taken to every poor household. The convention concluded with a march to Parliament House, led by AIDWA president Subhashini Ali and Brinda Karat. * * Printer friendly page Send this article to Friends by E-Mail ------------------------------ Subscribe | Contact Us | Archives| Contents (Letters to the Editor should carry the full postal address) ------------------------------ [ Home | The Hindu | Business Line | Sportstar ------------------------------ Copyright © 2003, Frontline. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of Frontline ------------------------------ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 12:10:49 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:10:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 3 Message-ID: Link: http://www.hinduonnet.com/businessline/2001/11/06/stories/040631ju.htm Article: [image: THE HINDU BUSINESS LINE] Financial Daily from THE HINDU group of publications Tuesday, November 06, 2001 ------------------------------ *• *AGRI-BUSINESS *• *CORPORATE *• *INDUSTRY *• *LETTERS *• *MACRO ECONOMY *• *MARKETS *• *NEWS *• *OPINION *• *VARIETY *• *INFO-TECH *• *CATALYST *• *INVESTMENT WORLD *• *MONEY & BANKING *• *LOGISTICS *• *PAGE ONE *• *INDEX *• *HOME Opinion | Next| Prev Food exports and right to food K. P. Prabhakaran Nair IT APPEARS that New Delhi is bent on pursuing a food `export' policy, throwing to the winds any semblance of economic rationality or financial prudence. Most tragically, it is ignoring the very ethics of food entitlement to every Indian. There is a false sense of euphoria and misplaced pride when the agricultural fraternity, past and present, considers the current spate of food `exports' a vindication of its collective intelligence to convert the country from a ``basket case'' to a state of food ``self sufficiency''. Reality, though, is in between. It cannot be denied that Punjab, Haryana, Western Uttar Pradesh and Andhra Pradesh have been able to produce more food with the aid of ``high-input technology''. This has been unparalleled in Asia, except for China. The country has been successful in producing a huge quantum of food -- never mind the enormous price it has paid to its environmental integrity and soil health. However, should this food be channelled to a mindless export policy or put to better use for its citizens? The Table will prove that we are on a downhill course where food production is concerned. Compared to the pre-reform period, the growth in agriculture has fallen by 31 per cent in the post-reform period inasmuch as food production is concerned. While wheat production stagnated, that of rice fell more than 40 per cent and coarse cereals -- baj ra, ragi, sorghum, etc -- showed negative growth. The country is not producing enough foodgrains to make them uniformly cheap and with the Government raising the minimum support price for wheat and rice every year, the difference between domestic and international prices has narrowed. For instance, Kera la, whose people consume some form rice at every meal, grows only 25 per cent of its requirements and imports the rest from surplus States. With the skewed Public Distribution System, even the Above Poverty Line (APL) category consumer -- a family earnin g more than Rs 1,500 per month -- cannot buy rice if the rate is Rs 16 a kg (for the ordinary variety) and Rs 20 plus (for the better ones). And this can be traced to the minimum support price (MSP). Ironically, when the export price is pegged at Rs 5,650 per tonne for raw rice and Rs 6,000 for par-boiled rice, which is the base price for the BPL category of consumers -- and for the APL category at Rs 11,300 per tonne, which translates into Rs 1 plus a kg, a daily wage labourer earning Rs 100 a day -- who, according to the new classification, is a ``rich'' man since his monthly earnings are above Rs 1,500 -- would not waste his time standing in line. Between 1998-99 and 2000-01 the offtake of rice b y the APL category from the central pool dipped by 75 per cent! That is, only one out of four of the so-called APL category consumer was buying rice from Government agencies. And this, when the open market price for rice rules at Rs 9 a kg. Hence, when the rice stock bulges in Food Corporation of India (FCI) godowns, there is no other choice but to export or dump it in the sea. However, the storage cost to the national exchequer works out to Rs 5 per tonne per day. When extrapolated to the excess grain stocked above, the buffer limit comes to about Rs 15 crore a day. When more than a quarter of the country's population is starving, an unethical situation arises where food is exported at throw away prices. In fact, it is a reverse flow of our resources, where the beneficiaries are, besides corrupt officials and unscru pulous traders, the super-rich farmers. That corporate clout will prevail in India on its agricultural horizon in the days to come, is clearly signalled by Cargill India bagging the tender to export 20,000 tonnes of wheat to the 9Philippines -- the first major wheat consignment going to South-East Asia for human consumption. Except for West Asia, there have been few enquiries for Indian wheat meant for human consumption, with the bulk selling as animal feed. Of three wheat consignments to Iraq, two were rejected on the grounds that they contained unacceptable levels (more th an 2 per cent) of inorganic matter (primarily sand and stone). The consignments finally ended up in Dubai at feed-grade rates! What a travesty of justice and a demonstration of New Delhi's insensitivity when games are played that leave droves of Indians starving and the subsidised (by the exchequer) foodgrains become animal feed on foreign shores! Ongoing efforts to unload wheat and rice on foreign soil has its origin in the economic restructuring agenda of the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund (IMF) when the APL category was pushed out of the PDS by 1996, resulting in drastic reducti ons in offtake. Consequently, the grain load swelled in FCI godowns. Arm-twisting tactics by opportunistic politicians from Punjab, Haryana, AP and UP compounded the problem. Food for work: A sham To reduce the food mountains, some suggestions have been in circulation. A survey in 105 hamlets in drought-affected areas in April-May showed that eight persons were seeking employment on relief works for every person actually employed. The State concer ned pleaded helplessness and the Centre has shown little regard for the people's misery -- obviously the differing political hues explain the divergence while the unscrupulous elements divert the food meant for the programme for private profiteering. What are the alternatives? For the past several months, numerous articles have been published on New Delhi's duplicity. On the one hand, the Government swears by `Swadharma', only to throw it out of the window on domestic and foreign corporate prodding. Food is a vital issue. If t his duality -- of food mountains on the one hand and starving millions on the other -- is to disappear, it would be better to stave off this ``MSP syndrome''. The fundamental principle of support price should not be aimed at commercially underwriting or guaranteeing sale of farm products of any quality or price, but intervening when farmers are in distress. What is now being witnessed is a charade at the expense of the exchequer, where the real beneficiaries are corrupt politicians, unscrupulous middlemen, avaricious traders, and fat cat ``farmers''. Will ever a day dawn when a hungry Indian can demand his right to food? We may have to go back to the scriptures to truly understand the meaning of Annadata. (The author is Senior Fellow, Humboldt Foundation, Germany.) Related links: Caught in the food muddle MSP muddle and food exports -- Boasts aside, can we make the grade? Comment on this article to BLFeedback at thehindu.co.in Send this article to Friends by E-Mail ------------------------------ Next: Not quite cricket, this Prev: Financing education for all Opinion ------------------------------ Agri-Business| Corporate | Industry | Letters | Macro Economy | Markets | News | Opinion | Variety | Info-Tech | Catalyst| Investment World | Money & Banking| Logistics | Page One | Index | Home ------------------------------ Copyright © 2001 The Hindu Business Line. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of The Hindu Business Line. ------------------------------ From murali.chalam at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 12:12:35 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:12:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? In-Reply-To: <5bedab660907312230k2a662163t6c56d217adc770da@mail.gmail.com> References: <5bedab660907311405v3c53908h68b0217e7f0d5c0e@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907312054r287b2090m6d4fb35c07ca6813@mail.gmail.com> <5bedab660907312230k2a662163t6c56d217adc770da@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870907312342g6c432bf2j1c975a78a8af9085@mail.gmail.com> If some thing has made you laugh and feel happy, I am happy. That is my way of living. Regards, V Murali On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 11:00 AM, Pheeta Ram wrote: > "You make me laugh Murali," says Jahanvi. There is a bit of childish > rashness and irreverant matter-of-factness ( though > totally misplaced) the way you make an offer. The options are not available > like some commodity in our nearest shop, or Mall > if you will. There are many such experiments that are going on all over the > world. People have also set up "gated communities" and profess to be > citizens of another world that belongs to another day. Can you suggest me a > list of communities in India itself that are experimenting the way i have > suggested? What i would venture to suggest to you "personally" is to find > out the reasons why such communities are still segregated and away from the > public knowledge. Are they really communities that profess no faith, and if > they do not, what is the nature of their faith in the first place. We are > fortunate enough that people in so large a number are gracing this > discussion forum; one rarely gets such dedicated readers who also spend time > responding to fanatical proposals (and run for alarm at the slightest > provocation). > > With faith and religion are attached many other issues that have already > been debated in hallowed intellectual circles but their conclusions have not > been able to percolate down to the masses like us. The problems are as much > psychological as they are cultural. Take for example today's kewl college > going brats. They wear Che Guevara T-shrits and claim to belonging to no > religion live and act like hippies of 70s though fall far short of that > because of reasons too obvious to merit a mention. Now one might ask is this > the kind of "thing" that i am proposing. Certainly NOT! These guys don't > even know who Che was, somebody would as well tell you that he was a Harlem > pop star of the 60s or 20s if you will or just a "pop star." Moreover, they > would shoot a nearest temple at the first instance, whether for the sake of > girls or to crack an entrance test. I was shocked to see many kewl guys > fitted in branded jeans chanting Hanuman Chalisa when i dragged myself out > of curiosity to a temple in Delhi. > > Things run deep under kewl T-shirts! > We need to understand many such paradoxical webs, not individually > but "communally" through such a forum. > Best > > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Murali V wrote: > >> What you propose is already available in a faith called "Way of Living". >> One has to attempt this philosophy and things would be for the good. >> Murali V >> >> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 2:35 AM, Pheeta Ram wrote: >> >>> Dear All, >>> I know this won't go down well with most of you but here it is: >>> Religions are the basic source of strife and as long as there will be >>> religions >>> (belief in this God and that) there will be such hostilities. By >>> professing >>> one religion >>> i simultaneously create an other being who, by inference, is either >>> follower >>> of some religion >>> or a pagan. The basic contradiction in all religions is that despite >>> their >>> moral-ethical discourse >>> regarding oneness of all humanity they are the principal segregators. All >>> the saints who have >>> walked the earth deluded themselves with such fancies. >>> >>> Religion is not just a system of belief but also an economy. We depend a >>> lot >>> upon our religious capital >>> for our subsistance. A person who professes to be a member of certain >>> community (primarily religious) >>> also depends upon it as a kind of umbilical cord and draws sucour. >>> >>> By now earth has soaked so much blood because of religious strifes that >>> sometimes i wonder isn't it time >>> to abandon all religious badges and create a ethical moral code drawn >>> from >>> all the religions and start believing >>> in one community: that is Human. >>> >>> I think we need to believe in our brother next door and one walking on >>> the >>> street or the worker on a Metro site. >>> We need to believe that for the survival of humanity we need to believe >>> in >>> each other and not on some transcendental >>> agency. I wonder why we haven't learnt from our history. The primary >>> reason >>> why we have failed terribly in creating a >>> community of all human beings that walk the earth is because we are >>> afraid. >>> Afraid to believe in somebody who is in >>> front of us in flesh and blood. I remember a man sitting in Blue Line who >>> was highly uncomfortable when a profusely sweating migrant labourer got >>> in >>> and found a seat, to his great relief, by his side. It is certain that he >>> didn't know of the >>> religion of that worker but the stench of his sweat and his dirty clothes >>> were enough for him to get up and keep standing >>> for the rest of his journey. I wonder when we have such intolerence for a >>> 'fellow' human beings' honest sweat how would we >>> ever begin even thinking about such a Human community. The perils that >>> face >>> the earth now are reasons enough that we >>> start believing in each other and work for the future of humanity by >>> shunning all our sectarian tags. But strangely we are busy >>> inventing/refurbishing new messiah who would deliver us from the mess >>> that >>> we have ourselves created on this earth. >>> >>> I wonder what stops us from creating a new religion of Humanity. >>> >>> The advice that comes from scholarly circles regarding all this religious >>> intolerance is : Tolerance! >>> That we need to tolerate each other. Tolerance is another form of fascism >>> or >>> nazism, what ever. I won't agree with substituting >>> the word toleracne with "respect" or "compassion". Why tolerate the very >>> root of strife in the first place. >>> >>> And yet, sadly, things are not as simple as that. But a time comes when >>> we >>> have to call a spade a spade. >>> We have to shun God to love human beings. There is no other way. Just >>> visualize the situation: Two guys are standing in a big stadium in front >>> of >>> each other, just a metre apart but with their faces 'heaven'wards. Why >>> are >>> they afraid to see each other directly. >>> Why does the need arise to travel so many light years and then come to >>> ones >>> brother standing just a meter away. >>> >>> I know it is plain foolishness to ask somebody whose bread and butter >>> depends upon religion to shun it and enter the fold of Humanity where >>> people >>> believe in people and work with mutual responsibility. But we >>> need neo-believers who are foolish enough to >>> believe in such a possibility and are ready to work for it. It's a >>> long revolution but a possible one. >>> >>> But, the roadblocks are mighty hard to surpass. Take for instance my >>> case: >>> I have a primary school in my neighbourhood, a government one. And >>> every morning even before i have got up their assembly begins and the >>> chants >>> of sacred Hindu mantras begin. All this atma and parmatma stuff. Though i >>> don't dispute the sense inherent in the prayer yet aren't we or rather >>> the >>> supposedly and proffessedly secular government entering into the business >>> of 'mass conversion'. When i have all these religious prayers embedded >>> into >>> my consciousness right from my childhood can you imagine how much i would >>> have to suffer to convert back to the religion of humanity if i convert >>> at >>> all and not turn into some religious fanatic. Less said of the schools >>> run >>> by one religion or the other the better. >>> >>> Though the proposal seems indecent yet i think there are madmen enough to >>> believe in this long long revolution. >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 12:14:33 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:14:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 3 Message-ID: Dear all The collective conscience of the nation was stirred when the Parliament attack took place on 13 December, 2001 and five men in uniform lost their lives. But it seems the collective conscience of the nation and its caretakers goes on a pilgrimage when men and women are dying of hunger and malnutrition. Probably those lives are not important after all. Do read this article. Regards Rakesh Link: http://www.hinduonnet.com/2003/01/07/stories/2003010706780400.htm Article: Online edition of India's National Newspaper Tuesday, Jan 07, 2003 Group Publications Business Line The Sportstar Frontline The Hindu About Us Contact Us *Other States * News: Front Page | National | Southern States | Other States| International | Opinion| Business | Sport| Miscellaneous | Advts: Classifieds | Employment | Obituary| Other States - New Delhi [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] * Spotlight on right to food * By Our Staff Reporter NEW DELHI JAN. 6. During the past few months, there have been widespread reports of extreme hunger and even "starvation deaths'' from different parts of the country. Chronic hunger and malnutrition haunt millions of women, men and children on a day-to-day basis. Apart from being intolerable in its own right, this situation reflects a gross violation of the recent Supreme Court directive on the right to food. To turn the spotlight of attention on this issue, a public hearing on hunger and starvation will be organised here in the Capital this coming Friday by the support group of the "Right to Food'' campaign, an informal network of organisations and individuals committed to realisation of the right to food in India. The group believes that the primary responsibility for guaranteeing this right rests with the State. ``State authorities need to be held accountable to this situation and the conscience of the nation also needs to be stirred. That is why we are organising the public hearing,'' says a spokesperson for the support group on "Right to Food''. Particular attention will be paid to recent instances of "starvation deaths'' in different states. "Our role as citizens is mainly to hold the State accountable to its duty.'' At the public hearing, first-hand testimonies of starvation deaths and of the living conditions that prevail in the affected communities will be presented. Going beyond this, the gathering will focus on the enormity of hunger in contemporary India and the diverse ways in which it blights people's lives. The hearing will also be an opportunity to consider the failure of the State in addressing these issues. ``Starvation deaths have been reported from Baran in Rajasthan, Kashipur in Orissa, Palamau in Jharkhand, Shivpuri, Badwani in Madhya Pradesh and Nandurbar in Maharashtra. The persistence of widespread hunger is all the more absurd as public godowns in the country are overflowing with grains,'' says the spokesperson of the "Right to Food'' support group, adding that public pressure was needed to ensure that the Court's order with regard to the "Right to Food'' was implemented. "States such as Rajasthan have seen major improvements in food-related programmes in response to such pressure.'' On January 10, therefore, the testimonies of those "living with hunger'' will be heard by a small panel of distinguished economists, nutritionists and other experts for the first time in the Capital. Economist Amartya Sen and writer Mahasweta Devi have agreed to participate in the hearing which is expected to further the support group's objective of catalysing state intervention through effective popular organisation in a democratic manner. * * Printer friendly page Send this article to Friends by E-Mail Other States News: Front Page | National | Southern States | Other States| International | Opinion| Business | Sport| Miscellaneous | Advts: Classifieds | Employment | Obituary| Stories in this Section - Cold wave toll crosses 100 - Bid to make cops people-friendly - Call to tackle cattle menace - Spotlight on right to food - Auctioning goes electronic at Azadpur mandi - Row in MCD over transfer of hospitals Archives Yesterday's Issue Datewise Features: Life Magazine Literary Review Metro Plus Open Page Education Book Review Business SciTech Entertainment Young World Quest Folio ------------------------------ The Hindu Group: Home | About Us| Copyright | Archives| Contacts | Subscription Group Sites: The Hindu | Business Line| The Sportstar | Frontline| Home | Copyright © 2003, The Hindu. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of The Hindu ------------------------------ From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 12:15:16 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:15:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Online Talk: A kinder, gentler philosophy of success Message-ID: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtSE4rglxbY&feature=channel Alain de Botton examines our ideas of success and failure -- and questions the assumptions underlying these two judgments. Is success always earned? Is failure? From c.anupam at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 12:19:02 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:19:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: <4eab87870907312330h61e61fc5o398b0db4f0456b15@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00907310144vbcb4d37sf40d6bd434ffc18@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310517w140a20b5r4751e57b4a777bb3@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310535n49ce0d17kc91f83692d9dfb4@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310539j6dc44ff1s99591ea4a60e7085@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310546w12631d90teb9c8ae491c9f0cb@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907310956n772d29acuf8ccda5710a3454f@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907311146o1cf1eecak514d76d9f18537e2@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907312133t6b3a595dg99d54e01c1b43ef1@mail.gmail.com> <5bedab660907312202k406da437kb96372366de2e8ae@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907312330h61e61fc5o398b0db4f0456b15@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907312349p16efe75fj5451a0a7cd81cc34@mail.gmail.com> Dear Murali, My issue here why are we discussng burqa clad women going to school on this reader's list sir. what difference did it make to your belief system or how did it threaten your existence? Also if chanting Gayatri mantra helps you to breathe better how or why does this reader's list has to bear the effects? -anupam On 8/1/09, Murali V wrote: > > Dear Anupam, > > Dear Anupam, > > > The issue of uniformity has still not been addressed. A burkha clad girl in > a school cannot be questioned and if done, the media and the entire > pseudo-seculars go all out to call it hindu fanaticism. > > > Atma or the soul, life after death and re-birth are concepts which is their > in most faiths. Moreover the Gaytri mantra is also a breathing exercise as > the stanzas repeated in its correct form has set timings to control breath. > > > Regards, > V Murali > > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Pheeta Ram wrote: > >> Dear Murali, >> Institutions run by religious sects would be like that only otherwise why >> would they set >> up schools in the name of their religions in the first place. Every >> religion has an agenda. >> More the followers more the currency. But what i am pointing towards is >> the fact that >> even a school run by a government, and just imagine how many schools are >> there all over >> India, indulges in practices, and "uniformly" so, which are nothing short >> of proselytisation. >> When my son is asked to chant a Hindu Gayatri Mantra, or prayers that talk >> of "Atma" and >> "Parmatma" isn't it silent conversion to Hindu faith by a government that >> needs to be neutral >> in terms of religion. >> >> When you level charges, let me tell you, "opposite is true too." So don't >> exert yourself so hard. >> Moreover, if i am discriminated against my religion that doesn't give me >> the right to read "fatwas" >> against people who "just" extend the boundaries of citizenship to our >> relief. I won't ask my little son >> to go and kill his classmates just because he is being asked to chant a >> "mantra" that he has come >> to believe he doesn't need to or is unjustified ( given my brainwashing) >> in the first place. He has the right >> to be nurtured in a world where he is not preordained into the watertight >> compartment of some religion. >> >> Things are not so simple and straightforward as you would have them to be. >> In a public discussion forum >> everybody needs to be patient and not panic just because some "fan-atic" >> has fanned an imaginary jingoitst >> or communal frenzy. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 10:03 AM, Murali V wrote: >> >>> Dear Anupam, >>> I have never nor will I ever talk of destruction of any kind. My only >>> concern is that when we talk of secularism, it has to be followed with >>> absolute clarity and without any bias. It is only pseudo-secularism which >>> is >>> the norm. >>> >>> A school run by christian isnstitutions does not allow hindu boys to come >>> with Sandal paste on their foreheadin and with a black towel worn around >>> the waist during the fasting period before going to Sabarimala, does not >>> allow girls to wear the traditional bindi on their forehead while a >>> school >>> run by a hindu institution cannot object to the girl coming to school in >>> a >>> Burkha. >>> >>> The word "uniform" is not applicable to some. >>> >>> Crores of Tax payers money is spent every year on the Mecca trip, while >>> Hindus will have to pay tax to go to the holy shrines atop the himalayas. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Murali V >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> tion >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:16 AM, anupam chakravartty >> >wrote: >>> >>> > Dear Murli, >>> > I am really sorry to say the stories you have been posting about >>> > Murshidabad >>> > are far from true. It is the perspective of someone who has a sectarian >>> > understanding of the problem. You generalised the gang rivalry in the >>> > region >>> > to the slaying of the hindus. The problem here lies in the fact in the >>> > process of strenghtening your sectarian identity you tend to accomodate >>> a >>> > lot of devaints who could have otherwise found some gainful employment. >>> > Here >>> > there were two agrarian gangs fighting for resources like terrorism, >>> > manipulation and worst of all, lure of power with the help of fear and >>> > threats. >>> > I refuse to be manipulated. It is a personal protest demanding a fair >>> play. >>> > From very close quarters, I have seen the sectarian identity >>> functioning >>> > seditiously, poisoning minds which could have done better than what >>> they >>> > are >>> > doing. I dont want my brethren to be blinded by the propaganda of fear >>> from >>> > the state's side or from gun runners. Insecurity drives people crazy. A >>> > nation full of people, with their aspirations cannot be cheated to >>> perform >>> > such a heinous crime killing or plundering or looting. They inherently >>> want >>> > fair play although when manipulated, they needed to be told that there >>> is >>> > no >>> > point in worrying about who you are -- it is about what you are doing. >>> > Sir, nation building is not an easy task. Do you think in a homogenous >>> > society (as you speak for the Hindu community) you can stop the >>> individual >>> > aspirations? Lets say as a reaction you chased out devaints of all >>> kinds, >>> > and only your kinds exist, would you be able to control subversion? You >>> > cannot afford to be unfair here. >>> > >>> > I wont tell you about the multi-sectarian society and benefits that it >>> > brings. Because you know what it means and since as a reaction, you >>> have >>> > also consciously chosen to deviate from such a possibility of multi >>> racial >>> > or sectarian society. But whether should i respect this deviance at the >>> > cost >>> > of accomodating all the wrong doings is something that needs a >>> > philosophical >>> > understanding. A historical and a subjective (i know this word is >>> likely >>> > displease several readers here) understanding always accomodates >>> conflicts >>> > as the prime reason for all creations sectarian or otherwise (from >>> small >>> > panchyats, to the demand for new railway stations to demand for a >>> seperate >>> > state hood). These reactions are provokative and instead of painful >>> task of >>> > solving these issues in light of rational solutions, it proposes an >>> easier >>> > victory over such ailments -- by destruction. It is from here, I said: >>> "I >>> > would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's an >>> assurance >>> > to >>> > you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas here I will >>> > keep >>> > on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your claims." You >>> are >>> > most welcome to critique in the same rational, peaceful way not as >>> someone >>> > shouting "kill them all" in a discussion forums as this. Killing me is >>> not >>> > enough Sir. >>> > - with warm regards >>> > Anupam >>> > >>> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Murali V >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > > And I shall also try to counter every one of your claims. >>> > > Regards, >>> > > V Murali >>> > > >>> > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:16 PM, anupam chakravartty < >>> c.anupam at gmail.com >>> > >wrote: >>> > > >>> > >> Dear Rajen >>> > >> You can go on and be sectarian. The moderator in this reader's list >>> > doesnt >>> > >> seem to have a problem. And i respect your democratic rights sir >>> that >>> > the >>> > >> constitution guarantees you. I am just calling for a boycott of such >>> > >> agendas. >>> > >> I would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's an >>> > >> assurance >>> > >> to you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas here >>> I >>> > will >>> > >> keep on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your >>> claims. >>> > Take >>> > >> my word for that. >>> > >> Best wishes >>> > >> Anupam >>> > >> >>> > >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < >>> > >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: >>> > >> >>> > >> > sword is having both sides sharp.Your thoughts apply to all of us, >>> as >>> > we >>> > >> > post. >>> > >> > >>> > >> > Regards, >>> > >> > Rajen. >>> > >> > >>> > >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:05 PM, anupam chakravartty < >>> > >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: >>> > >> > >>> > >> >> Dear Rajen >>> > >> >> why are u pointing people, naming them? has anybody named you >>> rajen. >>> > i >>> > >> >> guess >>> > >> >> they (as in Taha and Javed) speak of it because you keep on >>> > questioning >>> > >> >> them >>> > >> >> pinpointing them all the time, makign generic statements against >>> a >>> > >> >> community >>> > >> >> is something that you guys keep doing. i will never forget what >>> you >>> > >> said >>> > >> >> to >>> > >> >> meera rizvi (your surname suggest). first clean up your act then >>> > point >>> > >> out >>> > >> >> others >>> > >> >> -anupam >>> > >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < >>> > >> >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> > Dear Anupam jee, >>> > >> >> > who owns the hindu religion, it i universal way of life, so >>> > also >>> > >> the >>> > >> >> > islam, but why a taha, a javed speak for it, do they own >>> islam.?If >>> > >> any >>> > >> >> of us >>> > >> >> > talk of ills our seculars have ready question that we do not >>> speak >>> > >> for >>> > >> >> > hindu, but they join to defend a husain for his right to >>> express >>> > art >>> > >> in >>> > >> >> > deities in his style, but no right to art for his own faith.? >>> Art >>> > is >>> > >> >> > heartless when it is just art, but only commerce. >>> > >> >> > >>> > >> >> > Regards, >>> > >> >> > >>> > >> >> > Rajen. >>> > >> >> > >>> > >> >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:40 PM, anupam chakravartty < >>> > >> >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: >>> > >> >> > >>> > >> >> >> Dear Rajen, >>> > >> >> >> My position has been same against all kinds of religious >>> > extremism. >>> > >> >> along >>> > >> >> >> with several other list members have been opposed to these >>> issues. >>> > >> if u >>> > >> >> >> can >>> > >> >> >> show me one instance which according to you contradicts my >>> earlier >>> > >> >> >> position, >>> > >> >> >> then i would like withdraw this boycott call from my side. I >>> wish >>> > to >>> > >> >> argue >>> > >> >> >> no more on this. i know you do not own hindu religion so my >>> advice >>> > >> is >>> > >> >> that >>> > >> >> >> u >>> > >> >> >> should assuming this self styled of this religion and >>> criticise >>> > >> others. >>> > >> >> i >>> > >> >> >> do >>> > >> >> >> not expect a change of heart from u but in case if that >>> happens it >>> > >> is >>> > >> >> also >>> > >> >> >> welcome. >>> > >> >> >> - best wishes >>> > >> >> >> anupam >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Rakesh Iyer < >>> > >> rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com> >>> > >> >> >> wrote: >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> > Dear all >>> > >> >> >> > >>> > >> >> >> > I just read a story of the Panchatantra, and it seems to >>> > resonate >>> > >> >> with >>> > >> >> >> what >>> > >> >> >> > one of my friends told yesterday: 'People change, they do, >>> but >>> > >> don't >>> > >> >> >> force >>> > >> >> >> > them to change. They take it at their ego' >>> > >> >> >> > >>> > >> >> >> > Here's hoping for that change one day from Murali ji, Rajen >>> ji, >>> > >> and >>> > >> >> >> others >>> > >> >> >> > of their like. And no more replies asking them to change or >>> > >> >> criticizing >>> > >> >> >> > them. >>> > >> >> >> > >>> > >> >> >> > Regards >>> > >> >> >> > >>> > >> >> >> > Rakesh >>> > >> >> >> > >>> > >> >> >> _________________________________________ >>> > >> >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> > >> >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >>> > >> >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith >>> > >> >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >>> > >> >> >> To unsubscribe: >>> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > >> >> >> List archive: < >>> https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> > >>> > >> >> > >>> > >> >> > >>> > >> >> > -- >>> > >> >> > Rajen. >>> > >> >> > >>> > >> >> > >>> > >> >> _________________________________________ >>> > >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> > >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >>> > >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith >>> > >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >>> > >> >> To unsubscribe: >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > -- >>> > >> > Rajen. >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> _________________________________________ >>> > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> > >> Critiques & Collaborations >>> > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> > >> subscribe in the subject header. >>> > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> > >> >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _________________________________________ >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> > subscribe in the subject header. >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> > >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> >> >> > > > From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 12:19:27 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:19:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Tarun Vijay's new book - India Battles to Win In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70907312346m13160245w100473a4a5767c48@mail.gmail.com> References: <6e290262$49fe7b01$6147ec46$@com> <6b79f1a70907312346m13160245w100473a4a5767c48@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70907312349j765416d8sd6b644813de6c6a1@mail.gmail.com> Tarun Vijay's new book India Battles to Win "Tarun Vijay is an intellectual, patriot, writer and thinker. He argues and emphasises that our cultural and religious (Hindu) heritage gives India an advantage to achieve a better, prosperous, equitable and sustainable future. As an Indian, I am beholden to Tarun for making me think of my heritage as a part of the future."                                                                  - F.C. Kohli, Former Vice-President, Tata Consultancy Services. About The Book: India bruised and brutalized with terror war, poverty and self denying secularism  yet shining stunningly on world horizon as an unstoppable global power is like a lion shackled in deep slumber slowly awakening with a roar. India's time has arrived. Invincible military strength, emerging economic power and a vibrant reformist youth energy having pride in its core civilisational character are the ingredients that makes this Indian war winnable. India Battles to Win is an invigorating reading. Written in his own inimitable style by Tarun Vijay, who has emerged as the strong and 'most read' journalist representing Hindu nationalism gives his best power packed commentary. Controversial and fiery. Spares  none-and remains unapologetic. An unprecedented book by a highly respected writer who has been one of the closest policy makers to the top leaders of Hindu movement and politics. Hurry, before the offer ends- THIS BOOK IS AVAILABLE AT A PRE-PUBLICATION PRICE OF RS. 395.00 till 15th August, 2009. THE PUBLISHED PRICE IS RS 495.00 PLEASE BOOK YOUR ORDER NOW TO AVAIL SPECIAL OFFER. On Line Payment Method- Buyers can pay to  HDFC BANK, LTD, DARYAGANJ BRANCH, NEW DELHI 110 002 TO ACCOUNT NO 03142790000151(a/c Rupa & Co., Delhi). Orders with payment details may be forwarded on following emails:- info at rupabooks.com , sales at rupapublications.com . Postage free for the books shipped within India. Postage charges for the orders received from abroad will be @ Rs 600.00 per book (registered air mail).  ALTERNATIVELY THE SAME OFFER CAN BE AVAILED FROM OUR WEBSITE: http://www.rupapublications.co.in/client/Book/INDIA--BATTLES-TO-WIN.aspx                                                  A Rupa Publications proud presentation INDIA BATTLES TO WIN by Tarun Vijay Category: Current Affairs, Pages: 355 Book Size: 6x9 inches Weight: 500 gm Available in: HardboundISBN: 9788129115003. For more information contact A K Singh: Tele- 23240448 ,23272161 /Mobile 9868111026. From murali.chalam at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 12:21:56 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:21:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: <341380d00907312349p16efe75fj5451a0a7cd81cc34@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00907310144vbcb4d37sf40d6bd434ffc18@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310535n49ce0d17kc91f83692d9dfb4@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310539j6dc44ff1s99591ea4a60e7085@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310546w12631d90teb9c8ae491c9f0cb@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907310956n772d29acuf8ccda5710a3454f@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907311146o1cf1eecak514d76d9f18537e2@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907312133t6b3a595dg99d54e01c1b43ef1@mail.gmail.com> <5bedab660907312202k406da437kb96372366de2e8ae@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907312330h61e61fc5o398b0db4f0456b15@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907312349p16efe75fj5451a0a7cd81cc34@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870907312351k36d2799cgadab849e114d4d1e@mail.gmail.com> That is because U had stated that Gayatri Mantra is of religious nature which I had countered. On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:19 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Murali, > > My issue here why are we discussng burqa clad women going to school on this > reader's list sir. what difference did it make to your belief system or how > did it threaten your existence? Also if chanting Gayatri mantra helps you > to > breathe better how or why does this reader's list has to bear the effects? > > -anupam > > On 8/1/09, Murali V wrote: > > > > Dear Anupam, > > > > Dear Anupam, > > > > > > The issue of uniformity has still not been addressed. A burkha clad girl > in > > a school cannot be questioned and if done, the media and the entire > > pseudo-seculars go all out to call it hindu fanaticism. > > > > > > Atma or the soul, life after death and re-birth are concepts which is > their > > in most faiths. Moreover the Gaytri mantra is also a breathing exercise > as > > the stanzas repeated in its correct form has set timings to control > breath. > > > > > > Regards, > > V Murali > > > > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Pheeta Ram > wrote: > > > >> Dear Murali, > >> Institutions run by religious sects would be like that only otherwise > why > >> would they set > >> up schools in the name of their religions in the first place. Every > >> religion has an agenda. > >> More the followers more the currency. But what i am pointing towards is > >> the fact that > >> even a school run by a government, and just imagine how many schools are > >> there all over > >> India, indulges in practices, and "uniformly" so, which are nothing > short > >> of proselytisation. > >> When my son is asked to chant a Hindu Gayatri Mantra, or prayers that > talk > >> of "Atma" and > >> "Parmatma" isn't it silent conversion to Hindu faith by a government > that > >> needs to be neutral > >> in terms of religion. > >> > >> When you level charges, let me tell you, "opposite is true too." So > don't > >> exert yourself so hard. > >> Moreover, if i am discriminated against my religion that doesn't give me > >> the right to read "fatwas" > >> against people who "just" extend the boundaries of citizenship to our > >> relief. I won't ask my little son > >> to go and kill his classmates just because he is being asked to chant a > >> "mantra" that he has come > >> to believe he doesn't need to or is unjustified ( given my brainwashing) > >> in the first place. He has the right > >> to be nurtured in a world where he is not preordained into the > watertight > >> compartment of some religion. > >> > >> Things are not so simple and straightforward as you would have them to > be. > >> In a public discussion forum > >> everybody needs to be patient and not panic just because some "fan-atic" > >> has fanned an imaginary jingoitst > >> or communal frenzy. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 10:03 AM, Murali V >wrote: > >> > >>> Dear Anupam, > >>> I have never nor will I ever talk of destruction of any kind. My only > >>> concern is that when we talk of secularism, it has to be followed with > >>> absolute clarity and without any bias. It is only pseudo-secularism > which > >>> is > >>> the norm. > >>> > >>> A school run by christian isnstitutions does not allow hindu boys to > come > >>> with Sandal paste on their foreheadin and with a black towel worn > around > >>> the waist during the fasting period before going to Sabarimala, does > not > >>> allow girls to wear the traditional bindi on their forehead while a > >>> school > >>> run by a hindu institution cannot object to the girl coming to school > in > >>> a > >>> Burkha. > >>> > >>> The word "uniform" is not applicable to some. > >>> > >>> Crores of Tax payers money is spent every year on the Mecca trip, while > >>> Hindus will have to pay tax to go to the holy shrines atop the > himalayas. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> > >>> Murali V > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> tion > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:16 AM, anupam chakravartty < > c.anupam at gmail.com > >>> >wrote: > >>> > >>> > Dear Murli, > >>> > I am really sorry to say the stories you have been posting about > >>> > Murshidabad > >>> > are far from true. It is the perspective of someone who has a > sectarian > >>> > understanding of the problem. You generalised the gang rivalry in the > >>> > region > >>> > to the slaying of the hindus. The problem here lies in the fact in > the > >>> > process of strenghtening your sectarian identity you tend to > accomodate > >>> a > >>> > lot of devaints who could have otherwise found some gainful > employment. > >>> > Here > >>> > there were two agrarian gangs fighting for resources like terrorism, > >>> > manipulation and worst of all, lure of power with the help of fear > and > >>> > threats. > >>> > I refuse to be manipulated. It is a personal protest demanding a fair > >>> play. > >>> > From very close quarters, I have seen the sectarian identity > >>> functioning > >>> > seditiously, poisoning minds which could have done better than what > >>> they > >>> > are > >>> > doing. I dont want my brethren to be blinded by the propaganda of > fear > >>> from > >>> > the state's side or from gun runners. Insecurity drives people crazy. > A > >>> > nation full of people, with their aspirations cannot be cheated to > >>> perform > >>> > such a heinous crime killing or plundering or looting. They > inherently > >>> want > >>> > fair play although when manipulated, they needed to be told that > there > >>> is > >>> > no > >>> > point in worrying about who you are -- it is about what you are > doing. > >>> > Sir, nation building is not an easy task. Do you think in a > homogenous > >>> > society (as you speak for the Hindu community) you can stop the > >>> individual > >>> > aspirations? Lets say as a reaction you chased out devaints of all > >>> kinds, > >>> > and only your kinds exist, would you be able to control subversion? > You > >>> > cannot afford to be unfair here. > >>> > > >>> > I wont tell you about the multi-sectarian society and benefits that > it > >>> > brings. Because you know what it means and since as a reaction, you > >>> have > >>> > also consciously chosen to deviate from such a possibility of multi > >>> racial > >>> > or sectarian society. But whether should i respect this deviance at > the > >>> > cost > >>> > of accomodating all the wrong doings is something that needs a > >>> > philosophical > >>> > understanding. A historical and a subjective (i know this word is > >>> likely > >>> > displease several readers here) understanding always accomodates > >>> conflicts > >>> > as the prime reason for all creations sectarian or otherwise (from > >>> small > >>> > panchyats, to the demand for new railway stations to demand for a > >>> seperate > >>> > state hood). These reactions are provokative and instead of painful > >>> task of > >>> > solving these issues in light of rational solutions, it proposes an > >>> easier > >>> > victory over such ailments -- by destruction. It is from here, I > said: > >>> "I > >>> > would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's an > >>> assurance > >>> > to > >>> > you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas here I > will > >>> > keep > >>> > on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your claims." You > >>> are > >>> > most welcome to critique in the same rational, peaceful way not as > >>> someone > >>> > shouting "kill them all" in a discussion forums as this. Killing me > is > >>> not > >>> > enough Sir. > >>> > - with warm regards > >>> > Anupam > >>> > > >>> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Murali V > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > And I shall also try to counter every one of your claims. > >>> > > Regards, > >>> > > V Murali > >>> > > > >>> > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:16 PM, anupam chakravartty < > >>> c.anupam at gmail.com > >>> > >wrote: > >>> > > > >>> > >> Dear Rajen > >>> > >> You can go on and be sectarian. The moderator in this reader's > list > >>> > doesnt > >>> > >> seem to have a problem. And i respect your democratic rights sir > >>> that > >>> > the > >>> > >> constitution guarantees you. I am just calling for a boycott of > such > >>> > >> agendas. > >>> > >> I would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's an > >>> > >> assurance > >>> > >> to you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas > here > >>> I > >>> > will > >>> > >> keep on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your > >>> claims. > >>> > Take > >>> > >> my word for that. > >>> > >> Best wishes > >>> > >> Anupam > >>> > >> > >>> > >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < > >>> > >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > sword is having both sides sharp.Your thoughts apply to all of > us, > >>> as > >>> > we > >>> > >> > post. > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > Regards, > >>> > >> > Rajen. > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:05 PM, anupam chakravartty < > >>> > >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> >> Dear Rajen > >>> > >> >> why are u pointing people, naming them? has anybody named you > >>> rajen. > >>> > i > >>> > >> >> guess > >>> > >> >> they (as in Taha and Javed) speak of it because you keep on > >>> > questioning > >>> > >> >> them > >>> > >> >> pinpointing them all the time, makign generic statements > against > >>> a > >>> > >> >> community > >>> > >> >> is something that you guys keep doing. i will never forget what > >>> you > >>> > >> said > >>> > >> >> to > >>> > >> >> meera rizvi (your surname suggest). first clean up your act > then > >>> > point > >>> > >> out > >>> > >> >> others > >>> > >> >> -anupam > >>> > >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < > >>> > >> >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > >>> > >> >> > >>> > >> >> > Dear Anupam jee, > >>> > >> >> > who owns the hindu religion, it i universal way of life, > so > >>> > also > >>> > >> the > >>> > >> >> > islam, but why a taha, a javed speak for it, do they own > >>> islam.?If > >>> > >> any > >>> > >> >> of us > >>> > >> >> > talk of ills our seculars have ready question that we do not > >>> speak > >>> > >> for > >>> > >> >> > hindu, but they join to defend a husain for his right to > >>> express > >>> > art > >>> > >> in > >>> > >> >> > deities in his style, but no right to art for his own faith.? > >>> Art > >>> > is > >>> > >> >> > heartless when it is just art, but only commerce. > >>> > >> >> > > >>> > >> >> > Regards, > >>> > >> >> > > >>> > >> >> > Rajen. > >>> > >> >> > > >>> > >> >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:40 PM, anupam chakravartty < > >>> > >> >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: > >>> > >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> Dear Rajen, > >>> > >> >> >> My position has been same against all kinds of religious > >>> > extremism. > >>> > >> >> along > >>> > >> >> >> with several other list members have been opposed to these > >>> issues. > >>> > >> if u > >>> > >> >> >> can > >>> > >> >> >> show me one instance which according to you contradicts my > >>> earlier > >>> > >> >> >> position, > >>> > >> >> >> then i would like withdraw this boycott call from my side. I > >>> wish > >>> > to > >>> > >> >> argue > >>> > >> >> >> no more on this. i know you do not own hindu religion so my > >>> advice > >>> > >> is > >>> > >> >> that > >>> > >> >> >> u > >>> > >> >> >> should assuming this self styled of this religion and > >>> criticise > >>> > >> others. > >>> > >> >> i > >>> > >> >> >> do > >>> > >> >> >> not expect a change of heart from u but in case if that > >>> happens it > >>> > >> is > >>> > >> >> also > >>> > >> >> >> welcome. > >>> > >> >> >> - best wishes > >>> > >> >> >> anupam > >>> > >> >> >> > >>> > >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Rakesh Iyer < > >>> > >> rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com> > >>> > >> >> >> wrote: > >>> > >> >> >> > >>> > >> >> >> > Dear all > >>> > >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > I just read a story of the Panchatantra, and it seems to > >>> > resonate > >>> > >> >> with > >>> > >> >> >> what > >>> > >> >> >> > one of my friends told yesterday: 'People change, they do, > >>> but > >>> > >> don't > >>> > >> >> >> force > >>> > >> >> >> > them to change. They take it at their ego' > >>> > >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > Here's hoping for that change one day from Murali ji, > Rajen > >>> ji, > >>> > >> and > >>> > >> >> >> others > >>> > >> >> >> > of their like. And no more replies asking them to change > or > >>> > >> >> criticizing > >>> > >> >> >> > them. > >>> > >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > Regards > >>> > >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> > Rakesh > >>> > >> >> >> > > >>> > >> >> >> _________________________________________ > >>> > >> >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> > >> >> >> Critiques & Collaborations > >>> > >> >> >> To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > >>> > >> >> >> subscribe in the subject header. > >>> > >> >> >> To unsubscribe: > >>> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> > >> >> >> List archive: < > >>> https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > >> >> >> > >>> > >> >> > > >>> > >> >> > > >>> > >> >> > > >>> > >> >> > -- > >>> > >> >> > Rajen. > >>> > >> >> > > >>> > >> >> > > >>> > >> >> _________________________________________ > >>> > >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> > >> >> Critiques & Collaborations > >>> > >> >> To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > >>> > >> >> subscribe in the subject header. > >>> > >> >> To unsubscribe: > >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> > >> >> List archive: < > https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > >> >> > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > -- > >>> > >> > Rajen. > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> _________________________________________ > >>> > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >>> > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >>> > >> To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > >> > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > _________________________________________ > >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> > Critiques & Collaborations > >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> > subscribe in the subject header. > >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > > >>> _________________________________________ > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> subscribe in the subject header. > >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 12:23:16 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:23:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 3 Message-ID: Link: http://www.righttofoodindia.org/links/updates/update2.html Update from Right to Food Campaign: Update 2 (August 2002) *Right to Food Campaign* Introduction Foundation Statement Collective Statement About the Secretariat Disclaimer Contact Addresses Campaign Updates Finance and Accounts Useful Links Introduction Current Highlights Key Documents Tools for Action and Research Events Rozgar Updates Articles News Feeds Campaign Materials Archives Introduction Supreme Court Orders Commissioners' Interventions Events Mid-day Meal Guidelines Field Surveys Articles Campaign Materials News Feeds Introduction Supreme Court orders Commissioners' Interventions Commissioners' Reports National Advisory Council Official Documents Field Surveys Articles Events News Feeds Introduction Articles The 'Right to Food' case Supreme Court Orders Supreme Court Commissioners Primers Posters and Plays Pamphlets Background Material Download - Hindi Font About the Campaign Legal Action Children's Right to Food Employment Guarantee Public Distribution System Primers & Posters Articles Field Reports Field Surveys EGA in News MDM in News ICDS in News Right to information campaign Forest Rights Unorganised Workers Bodhgaya Convention on the Right to Food and Work Kolkata Convention on the Right to Food and Work Rozgar Adhikar Yatra Banner project 19 September 2004 Convention on Right to Work Bhopal Convention Action day on Mid-day Meals April 2002 *Home* *Latest additions* *About the Campaign* *Employment Guarantee Act* *Mid-day Meals* *Right to Food Act* *ICDS* *PDS* *Legal Action* *Campaign Material* *Hindi section* *Research and Writings* *News Stories* *Related Campaigns* *Archives* *Site Map* *Search* *Contact Us* *UPDATE 2* Dear friends, (1) If your organisation has a newsletter, please consider reprinting portions of these updates in the newsletter, to help spread awareness about the campaign. (2) If you are an active member of the campaign, please send us information from to time about your activities, for inclusion in future Updates. Contributions to the Right to Food Update may be sent to right2food at yahoo.co.in. And now, today's "headlines": 1. Further progress with the application on "ending destitution". 2. National meeting on "monitoring and redressal" procedures 3. Work on the monitoring system starts 4. Orissa: Survey of mid-day meals and ICDS 5. Karnataka: Status of mid-day meal scheme 6. West Bengal: Official harassment in Puruliya 7. Uttar Pradesh: Children agitate for mid-day meals 8. Rajasthan: "Akal Sangharsh Samiti" revived with a bang *1. FURTHER PROGRESS WITH THE PROPOSAL FOR "ENDING DESTITUTION"* In the first Update, we mentioned that the Right to Food "support group" had prepared a proposal for a large-scale programme of food-based social security for destitute households. This proposal builds on the findings of our recent evaluation of the Antyodaya Anna Yojana programme. It suggests a much larger version of this programme,with inclusion of certain "priority groups" as a matter of right,larger monthly entitlements, stronger accountability procedures, and various modifications to improve the functioning of the programme. This proposal has been submitted to the Supreme Court. It has also been discussed with the Food Minister, Shri Sharad Yadav, and sent to the Finance Minister. On 15 August, we were happily surprised to find that the proposal had found its way into the Prime Minister's speech from the Red Fort. Indeed, he announced a new programme of food-based social security for the destitute, using much the same words as our proposal: "Alleviation of hunger among the most vulnerable sections of the society - such as old people, widows and disabled persons without family or societal support - will be an important component of the initiative on Life-Time Concerns. Accordingly, extending the scope of the Antyodaya Anna Yojana, and taking advantage of the surplus stock of foodgrains, the Government will operationalise a major food-based social security for the destitute." We are also glad to find that the essence of the proposal has been taken on board in the final report of the "high level committee on long-term foodgrain policy" (also known as the Abhijit Sen committee report). The report is available on the website of the Food Ministry. *2. NATIONAL MEETING ON "MONITORING AND REDRESSAL" PROCEDURES* As mentioned in Update 1, the Supreme Court has recently appointed Dr.N.C. Saxena and Mr. S.R. Sankaran as "Commissioners" for the purpose of monitoring recent Supreme Court orders relating to the right to food. Following on this, a national meeting was held on 9-10 August 2002 at Indian Social Institute, Delhi, to discuss ways of assisting the Commissioners in their work. This is also an opportunity to develop extensive monitoring and redressal procedures in different states, with the full authority of the Supreme Court. A BRIEF NOTE ("RIGHT TO FOOD: BUILDING ACCOUNTABILITY") SUMMARISING THE CONCLUSIONS OF THESE DISCUSSIONS IS AVAILABLE ON THE SITE, FOR FURTHER DISSEMINATION. The meeting was attended by about fifty participants from 12 different states. It was also an opportunity for wide-ranging discussions about the future of the Right to Food Campaign. Drought emerged as the most immediate concern. Early reports from different states indicate that the drought may have devastating effects on people's livelihoods. Meanwhile, state governments are showing great reluctance to launch adequate relief measures, allegedly because of financial constraints.The central government, for its part, continues to hang on to its huge reserves of food. The group felt that the immediate priority of the campaign for the moment should be the RIGHT TO WORK, expressed in the specific demand "work for all at minimum wages". The priority reflects the fact that employment is the best way to protect food entitlements. It also reflects the concern that in the last drought, the State governments introduced draconian 'labour ceilings' and often paid wages that were far below the minimum wages. Aside from the right to work, the group decided to take up a number of other issues. These include: (a) the non-implementation (or inept implementation) of school-meal programmes; (b) the collapse of the public distribution system; (c) the massive waste of foodgrain in FCI godowns (and also its misuse, e.g. through subsidised exports); (d) the absence of social support for destitute households; (e) the lack of transparency and accountability in all food-related programmes; (f)the gross mismanagement of water resources throughout the country. A joint "appeal" based on the outcome of the meeting has been prepared and will be circulated shortly. This appeal also includes a proposal for a national day of action under the slogan 'Godam Kholo, Kaam do'.More on this in due course. *3. WORK ON THE MONITORING SYSTEM STARTS* The monitoring system has started its work, primarily in collaboration with Dr. N.C. Saxena. Letters have been sent by the Commissioners to the state governments asking them to appoint nodal officers who will be the focal point of communication with the Commissioners. Many states have responded to this. Further letters regarding violations of the Supreme Court's orders have also been sent, e.g. demanding explanation for the non-implementation of the mid-day meal scheme in various states. The Commissioners may soon contemplate personal visits to the concerned states. For details of communications between the Commissioners and your state government, please write to right2food at yahoo.co.in. To track the plans of state governments on drought relief, the Commissioner has asked the states to place either the "advisor", or some representative of the advisor, in the drought monitoring committee of each state. (Clarification: we are in the process of identifying an "advisor" for the Commissioners in each state. See the summary note below.) We are also hoping that the Commissioners will be represented in the drought monitoring committee at the district level. SGRY is currently the umbrella programme of the government regarding employment creation. Work is on to collect the details of works that are being planned at the district level, the allocations, etc. This could form a vital tool for monitoring and advocacy for the groups. Once they are ready, they would be available for dissemination on demand. Efforts would also be made to put them on the net. *4. ORISSA: SURVEY OF MID-DAY MEALS AND ICDS* Members of the Right to Food Campaign in Orissa have conducted an extensive survey of the mid-day meal and ICDS programmes in that state. The survey report is being finalised. The initial findings suggest that there are major diversions of foodgrains and possibly money in both programmes. Erratic delivery of foodgrains is another common problem. Rarely do ICDS centres cater to pregnant and lactating women, or to adolescent girls. The survey documents the dismal functioning of two crucial nutrition schemes in a state with a very poor record of malnutrition. *5. KARNATAKA: STATUS OF MID-DAY MEAL SCHEME* In Karnataka, members of the Right to Food Campaign have been working on the mid-day meal scheme that has begun in 7 of the poorest districts in the State. "Inspection teams" have been formed in various districts to monitor the functioning of the scheme. In the initial round of "inspection", the teams went to schools in 5 out of 7 districts that had started the mid-day meal programme. Karnataka has provided between Rs 30,000 and 50,000 per school (depending on the size) for building kitchens and storerooms. A one-time provision of Rs 5,000 is made for utensils and Rs 6,000 for water storage. In each school, two to five persons are appointed for cooking and serving the meal. One rupee per child per day is provided for vegetables, oils and other ingredients. In many schools, the survey team found problems regarding the quality of grain. The cooking staff also absconded on certain occasions. In some villages with more than one school, the meal is served in a single "meal centre". In some cases, this has resulted in children having to walk long distances for the mid-day meal. A number of other relatively minor problems have all been documented in the report. The biggest issue in Karnataka is that the mid-day meal is presently confined to 7 out of over 25 districts. A petition is being planned by the members of the "caucus for elementary education, Bangalore". *6. WEST BENGAL: OFFICIAL HARASSMENT IN PURULIYA* On 16 August, members of the "right to food and work campaign" in West Bengal met the District Magistrate, Puruliya, to enquire about the status of SGRY in the district. The DM told the group that this was none of their business. When one of the members protested, they were physically removed from the room. Later in the day, the police rounded up the team and they were kept in the police station between 9 pm and 11 pm. This is not the first incident of its kind in West Bengal. Earlier this year Kunal, an activist based in the state, was arrested on a fake charge of "parading a SC woman naked", even though he was not even present in the village when the incident allegedly occurred. This incident caused a major stir. In other states, too, there have been occasional instances of repression when members of the Right to Food Campaign exposed various irregularities involved in food-related programmes. The campaign may need to develop better protection against official harassment. *7. UTTAR PRADESH: CHILDREN AGITATE FOR MID-DAY MEALS* In Uttar Pradesh, the mid-day meal campaign is gathering momentum. Feeble noises are beginning to be heard from the state government, suggesting that a mid-day meal programme may soon be introduced on a pilot basis. According to the Department of Education, a full-fledged school-meal programme would cost Rs 680 crores per year, and is not affordable without central assistance (a familiar argument). The Chief Minister recently declined a request to discuss the issue. On 10 September, parents and children from different parts of the state will be going to Lucknow in another attempt to meet her. Meanwhile, a day of agitation took place in Shankargarh (a deprived block of Allahabad district) on 27 August, when children in local schools held a dharna and submitted petitions to the Block Education Officer demanding the immediate introduction of cooked mid-day meals in all primary schools. Sr. Sheeba Jose has prepared a writ petition to the Allahabad High Court, asking for the immediate implementation of all recent Supreme Court orders on the right to food. The petition will be submitted shortly. *8. RAJASTHAN: "AKAL SANGHARSH SAMITI" REVIVED WITH A BANG* A major meeting of Akal Sangharsh Samiti, a network of about fifty organisations working on drought-related issues in different parts of Rajasthan, was held in Jaipur on 13-14 August. The network had gone to sleep after the rains broke out last year, but with the state reeling once again under a ferocious drought, the network is being revived and revamped. First-hand reports of the drought situation in different parts of Rajasthan are very alarming. There are acute water shortages in most places: the state government expects that water will soon need to be supplied by tanker to 16,000 villages. There have been massive crop failures, and migrant labourers have nowhere to go as the neighbouring states are also drought-affected. Daily wages in Jaipur have already started falling. Reports were also heard of the hardships caused to the drought-affected population by large-scale Army deployments in the western districts. Landmines are causing havoc along the entire western border. Large amounts of water are being appropriated by the Army in water-scarce areas. Army camps are also depriving local residents of access to valuable pastures. On a more positive note, Rajasthan's new mid-day meal programme appears to be doing reasonably well. School attendance is reported to have shot up, particularly in drought-affected areas. One emerging problem is the reluctance of higher-caste parents to let their children eat with dalit children, or eat food cooked by a dalit person. In village Kolu Pabuji (Jodhpur district), a Rajput parent is reported to have thrown sand in the mid-day meal, which had been cooked by a Meghwal woman. A whole series of possible actions were discussed at the meeting. The participating organisations are preparing for local events during the next few weeks, followed by a major public gathering in Jaipur on 26 September. From c.anupam at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 12:24:39 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:24:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: <4eab87870907312351k36d2799cgadab849e114d4d1e@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00907310144vbcb4d37sf40d6bd434ffc18@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560907310539j6dc44ff1s99591ea4a60e7085@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310546w12631d90teb9c8ae491c9f0cb@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907310956n772d29acuf8ccda5710a3454f@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907311146o1cf1eecak514d76d9f18537e2@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907312133t6b3a595dg99d54e01c1b43ef1@mail.gmail.com> <5bedab660907312202k406da437kb96372366de2e8ae@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907312330h61e61fc5o398b0db4f0456b15@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907312349p16efe75fj5451a0a7cd81cc34@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907312351k36d2799cgadab849e114d4d1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00907312354p67cefe3awa924ee216b267ab4@mail.gmail.com> Dear Murali, I never spoke about Gayatri Mantri or anything about it. Where does this come from sir? I think you must be mistaken. -Anupam On 8/1/09, Murali V wrote: > > That is because U had stated that Gayatri Mantra is of religious nature > which I had countered. > > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:19 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > >> Dear Murali, >> >> My issue here why are we discussng burqa clad women going to school on >> this >> reader's list sir. what difference did it make to your belief system or >> how >> did it threaten your existence? Also if chanting Gayatri mantra helps you >> to >> breathe better how or why does this reader's list has to bear the effects? >> >> -anupam >> >> On 8/1/09, Murali V wrote: >> > >> > Dear Anupam, >> > >> > Dear Anupam, >> > >> > >> > The issue of uniformity has still not been addressed. A burkha clad girl >> in >> > a school cannot be questioned and if done, the media and the entire >> > pseudo-seculars go all out to call it hindu fanaticism. >> > >> > >> > Atma or the soul, life after death and re-birth are concepts which is >> their >> > in most faiths. Moreover the Gaytri mantra is also a breathing exercise >> as >> > the stanzas repeated in its correct form has set timings to control >> breath. >> > >> > >> > Regards, >> > V Murali >> > >> > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Pheeta Ram >> wrote: >> > >> >> Dear Murali, >> >> Institutions run by religious sects would be like that only otherwise >> why >> >> would they set >> >> up schools in the name of their religions in the first place. Every >> >> religion has an agenda. >> >> More the followers more the currency. But what i am pointing towards is >> >> the fact that >> >> even a school run by a government, and just imagine how many schools >> are >> >> there all over >> >> India, indulges in practices, and "uniformly" so, which are nothing >> short >> >> of proselytisation. >> >> When my son is asked to chant a Hindu Gayatri Mantra, or prayers that >> talk >> >> of "Atma" and >> >> "Parmatma" isn't it silent conversion to Hindu faith by a government >> that >> >> needs to be neutral >> >> in terms of religion. >> >> >> >> When you level charges, let me tell you, "opposite is true too." So >> don't >> >> exert yourself so hard. >> >> Moreover, if i am discriminated against my religion that doesn't give >> me >> >> the right to read "fatwas" >> >> against people who "just" extend the boundaries of citizenship to our >> >> relief. I won't ask my little son >> >> to go and kill his classmates just because he is being asked to chant a >> >> "mantra" that he has come >> >> to believe he doesn't need to or is unjustified ( given my >> brainwashing) >> >> in the first place. He has the right >> >> to be nurtured in a world where he is not preordained into the >> watertight >> >> compartment of some religion. >> >> >> >> Things are not so simple and straightforward as you would have them to >> be. >> >> In a public discussion forum >> >> everybody needs to be patient and not panic just because some >> "fan-atic" >> >> has fanned an imaginary jingoitst >> >> or communal frenzy. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 10:03 AM, Murali V > >wrote: >> >> >> >>> Dear Anupam, >> >>> I have never nor will I ever talk of destruction of any kind. My only >> >>> concern is that when we talk of secularism, it has to be followed with >> >>> absolute clarity and without any bias. It is only pseudo-secularism >> which >> >>> is >> >>> the norm. >> >>> >> >>> A school run by christian isnstitutions does not allow hindu boys to >> come >> >>> with Sandal paste on their foreheadin and with a black towel worn >> around >> >>> the waist during the fasting period before going to Sabarimala, does >> not >> >>> allow girls to wear the traditional bindi on their forehead while a >> >>> school >> >>> run by a hindu institution cannot object to the girl coming to school >> in >> >>> a >> >>> Burkha. >> >>> >> >>> The word "uniform" is not applicable to some. >> >>> >> >>> Crores of Tax payers money is spent every year on the Mecca trip, >> while >> >>> Hindus will have to pay tax to go to the holy shrines atop the >> himalayas. >> >>> >> >>> Regards, >> >>> >> >>> Murali V >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> tion >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:16 AM, anupam chakravartty < >> c.anupam at gmail.com >> >>> >wrote: >> >>> >> >>> > Dear Murli, >> >>> > I am really sorry to say the stories you have been posting about >> >>> > Murshidabad >> >>> > are far from true. It is the perspective of someone who has a >> sectarian >> >>> > understanding of the problem. You generalised the gang rivalry in >> the >> >>> > region >> >>> > to the slaying of the hindus. The problem here lies in the fact in >> the >> >>> > process of strenghtening your sectarian identity you tend to >> accomodate >> >>> a >> >>> > lot of devaints who could have otherwise found some gainful >> employment. >> >>> > Here >> >>> > there were two agrarian gangs fighting for resources like terrorism, >> >>> > manipulation and worst of all, lure of power with the help of fear >> and >> >>> > threats. >> >>> > I refuse to be manipulated. It is a personal protest demanding a >> fair >> >>> play. >> >>> > From very close quarters, I have seen the sectarian identity >> >>> functioning >> >>> > seditiously, poisoning minds which could have done better than what >> >>> they >> >>> > are >> >>> > doing. I dont want my brethren to be blinded by the propaganda of >> fear >> >>> from >> >>> > the state's side or from gun runners. Insecurity drives people >> crazy. A >> >>> > nation full of people, with their aspirations cannot be cheated to >> >>> perform >> >>> > such a heinous crime killing or plundering or looting. They >> inherently >> >>> want >> >>> > fair play although when manipulated, they needed to be told that >> there >> >>> is >> >>> > no >> >>> > point in worrying about who you are -- it is about what you are >> doing. >> >>> > Sir, nation building is not an easy task. Do you think in a >> homogenous >> >>> > society (as you speak for the Hindu community) you can stop the >> >>> individual >> >>> > aspirations? Lets say as a reaction you chased out devaints of all >> >>> kinds, >> >>> > and only your kinds exist, would you be able to control subversion? >> You >> >>> > cannot afford to be unfair here. >> >>> > >> >>> > I wont tell you about the multi-sectarian society and benefits that >> it >> >>> > brings. Because you know what it means and since as a reaction, you >> >>> have >> >>> > also consciously chosen to deviate from such a possibility of multi >> >>> racial >> >>> > or sectarian society. But whether should i respect this deviance at >> the >> >>> > cost >> >>> > of accomodating all the wrong doings is something that needs a >> >>> > philosophical >> >>> > understanding. A historical and a subjective (i know this word is >> >>> likely >> >>> > displease several readers here) understanding always accomodates >> >>> conflicts >> >>> > as the prime reason for all creations sectarian or otherwise (from >> >>> small >> >>> > panchyats, to the demand for new railway stations to demand for a >> >>> seperate >> >>> > state hood). These reactions are provokative and instead of painful >> >>> task of >> >>> > solving these issues in light of rational solutions, it proposes an >> >>> easier >> >>> > victory over such ailments -- by destruction. It is from here, I >> said: >> >>> "I >> >>> > would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's an >> >>> assurance >> >>> > to >> >>> > you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas here I >> will >> >>> > keep >> >>> > on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your claims." >> You >> >>> are >> >>> > most welcome to critique in the same rational, peaceful way not as >> >>> someone >> >>> > shouting "kill them all" in a discussion forums as this. Killing me >> is >> >>> not >> >>> > enough Sir. >> >>> > - with warm regards >> >>> > Anupam >> >>> > >> >>> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Murali V > > >> >>> > wrote: >> >>> > >> >>> > > And I shall also try to counter every one of your claims. >> >>> > > Regards, >> >>> > > V Murali >> >>> > > >> >>> > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:16 PM, anupam chakravartty < >> >>> c.anupam at gmail.com >> >>> > >wrote: >> >>> > > >> >>> > >> Dear Rajen >> >>> > >> You can go on and be sectarian. The moderator in this reader's >> list >> >>> > doesnt >> >>> > >> seem to have a problem. And i respect your democratic rights sir >> >>> that >> >>> > the >> >>> > >> constitution guarantees you. I am just calling for a boycott of >> such >> >>> > >> agendas. >> >>> > >> I would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's an >> >>> > >> assurance >> >>> > >> to you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas >> here >> >>> I >> >>> > will >> >>> > >> keep on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your >> >>> claims. >> >>> > Take >> >>> > >> my word for that. >> >>> > >> Best wishes >> >>> > >> Anupam >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < >> >>> > >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> > sword is having both sides sharp.Your thoughts apply to all of >> us, >> >>> as >> >>> > we >> >>> > >> > post. >> >>> > >> > >> >>> > >> > Regards, >> >>> > >> > Rajen. >> >>> > >> > >> >>> > >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:05 PM, anupam chakravartty < >> >>> > >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> > >> > >> >>> > >> >> Dear Rajen >> >>> > >> >> why are u pointing people, naming them? has anybody named you >> >>> rajen. >> >>> > i >> >>> > >> >> guess >> >>> > >> >> they (as in Taha and Javed) speak of it because you keep on >> >>> > questioning >> >>> > >> >> them >> >>> > >> >> pinpointing them all the time, makign generic statements >> against >> >>> a >> >>> > >> >> community >> >>> > >> >> is something that you guys keep doing. i will never forget >> what >> >>> you >> >>> > >> said >> >>> > >> >> to >> >>> > >> >> meera rizvi (your surname suggest). first clean up your act >> then >> >>> > point >> >>> > >> out >> >>> > >> >> others >> >>> > >> >> -anupam >> >>> > >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < >> >>> > >> >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> >> > Dear Anupam jee, >> >>> > >> >> > who owns the hindu religion, it i universal way of life, >> so >> >>> > also >> >>> > >> the >> >>> > >> >> > islam, but why a taha, a javed speak for it, do they own >> >>> islam.?If >> >>> > >> any >> >>> > >> >> of us >> >>> > >> >> > talk of ills our seculars have ready question that we do not >> >>> speak >> >>> > >> for >> >>> > >> >> > hindu, but they join to defend a husain for his right to >> >>> express >> >>> > art >> >>> > >> in >> >>> > >> >> > deities in his style, but no right to art for his own >> faith.? >> >>> Art >> >>> > is >> >>> > >> >> > heartless when it is just art, but only commerce. >> >>> > >> >> > >> >>> > >> >> > Regards, >> >>> > >> >> > >> >>> > >> >> > Rajen. >> >>> > >> >> > >> >>> > >> >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:40 PM, anupam chakravartty < >> >>> > >> >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> > >> >> > >> >>> > >> >> >> Dear Rajen, >> >>> > >> >> >> My position has been same against all kinds of religious >> >>> > extremism. >> >>> > >> >> along >> >>> > >> >> >> with several other list members have been opposed to these >> >>> issues. >> >>> > >> if u >> >>> > >> >> >> can >> >>> > >> >> >> show me one instance which according to you contradicts my >> >>> earlier >> >>> > >> >> >> position, >> >>> > >> >> >> then i would like withdraw this boycott call from my side. >> I >> >>> wish >> >>> > to >> >>> > >> >> argue >> >>> > >> >> >> no more on this. i know you do not own hindu religion so my >> >>> advice >> >>> > >> is >> >>> > >> >> that >> >>> > >> >> >> u >> >>> > >> >> >> should assuming this self styled of this religion and >> >>> criticise >> >>> > >> others. >> >>> > >> >> i >> >>> > >> >> >> do >> >>> > >> >> >> not expect a change of heart from u but in case if that >> >>> happens it >> >>> > >> is >> >>> > >> >> also >> >>> > >> >> >> welcome. >> >>> > >> >> >> - best wishes >> >>> > >> >> >> anupam >> >>> > >> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Rakesh Iyer < >> >>> > >> rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com> >> >>> > >> >> >> wrote: >> >>> > >> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> > Dear all >> >>> > >> >> >> > >> >>> > >> >> >> > I just read a story of the Panchatantra, and it seems to >> >>> > resonate >> >>> > >> >> with >> >>> > >> >> >> what >> >>> > >> >> >> > one of my friends told yesterday: 'People change, they >> do, >> >>> but >> >>> > >> don't >> >>> > >> >> >> force >> >>> > >> >> >> > them to change. They take it at their ego' >> >>> > >> >> >> > >> >>> > >> >> >> > Here's hoping for that change one day from Murali ji, >> Rajen >> >>> ji, >> >>> > >> and >> >>> > >> >> >> others >> >>> > >> >> >> > of their like. And no more replies asking them to change >> or >> >>> > >> >> criticizing >> >>> > >> >> >> > them. >> >>> > >> >> >> > >> >>> > >> >> >> > Regards >> >>> > >> >> >> > >> >>> > >> >> >> > Rakesh >> >>> > >> >> >> > >> >>> > >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> >>> > >> >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >>> > >> >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >>> > >> >> >> To subscribe: send an email to >> reader-list-request at sarai.netwith >> >>> > >> >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >>> > >> >> >> To unsubscribe: >> >>> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >>> > >> >> >> List archive: < >> >>> https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >>> > >> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >>> > >> >> > -- >> >>> > >> >> > Rajen. >> >>> > >> >> > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >>> > >> >> _________________________________________ >> >>> > >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >>> > >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >>> > >> >> To subscribe: send an email to >> reader-list-request at sarai.netwith >> >>> > >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >>> > >> >> To unsubscribe: >> >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >>> > >> >> List archive: < >> https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> > >> >>> > >> > >> >>> > >> > >> >>> > >> > -- >> >>> > >> > Rajen. >> >>> > >> > >> >>> > >> > >> >>> > >> _________________________________________ >> >>> > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >>> > >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >>> > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith >> >>> > >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >>> > >> To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >>> > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > _________________________________________ >> >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >> >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >>> > subscribe in the subject header. >> >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >>> > >> >>> _________________________________________ >> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >>> Critiques & Collaborations >> >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >>> subscribe in the subject header. >> >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > From pheeta.ram at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 13:40:17 2009 From: pheeta.ram at gmail.com (Pheeta Ram) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 13:40:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: <341380d00907312354p67cefe3awa924ee216b267ab4@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00907310144vbcb4d37sf40d6bd434ffc18@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310546w12631d90teb9c8ae491c9f0cb@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907310956n772d29acuf8ccda5710a3454f@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907311146o1cf1eecak514d76d9f18537e2@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907312133t6b3a595dg99d54e01c1b43ef1@mail.gmail.com> <5bedab660907312202k406da437kb96372366de2e8ae@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907312330h61e61fc5o398b0db4f0456b15@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907312349p16efe75fj5451a0a7cd81cc34@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907312351k36d2799cgadab849e114d4d1e@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907312354p67cefe3awa924ee216b267ab4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5bedab660908010110u3bbab34bi2327d55b6d52f2f7@mail.gmail.com> Don't worry Anupam, its me who brought in Gayatri Mantra and stuff. Murali mistook. Now dear Murali, if i say that Gayatri Mantri is a Hindu mantra - though certainly not a personal property of Hindus - how did you counter that? It might be an extremely effective breathing exercise, as all of Hindu sacred Mantras are claimed to be, but would a Hindu like to disown it as a Hindu matra? How does it figure and get performed in public space? Its "meaning" certainly need not exclude this performative aspect of the mantra. Now if our government schools make little children chant this mantra every morning of their formative years why don't they also let some beautiful aayeten from Kuran be included in the morning prayer, if we go by Anupam's cliched proposal though certainly not a wrong one. What problem would you have by that?Why does your rant against "pseudo-secularism" refuse to acknowledge this aspect. Anupam's stance is enough to counter all your counter-claims and i don't need to pitch in because this has been the case all along. One goes to the extremeties of intolerance like a disgruntled lad of five another takes a now much worn-out yet excessively lauded progressive stance of a mature elder. We have been hearing such arguments for a long time now but have they really provided a solution, certainly not. A person who throws a pig in a mosque today used to do the same during the partition riots. Sadly, many things are much the same despite our metros and innumerable malls. The patent argument of "sarva dharma souhard" gives us hope for atleast a tolerant future, though i hate this "tolerance" stuff, it smacks of Nazism or things like that. "Though you fanatically believe that your neighbour is bad or fit enough to be eliminated yet for the time being tolerate him/her till the things get better in your favour": This is what i hear when they bring in the argument of "tolerance." What i am proposing is to go a step ahead of the current progressive argument that Anupam seems to be rooting for. His argument has atleast one merit that it keeps in check the extremist-fanatic battle cry that we have been hearing too often these days. Dear Anupam, when you suggest that certain elements of religocity are free of 'politics' or 'ideology' you put forward a too naive yet not an unheard of claim. If i visit a temple/mosque everyday, don't fight with my neighbour, and live a happy and contented life, whether that be in village or a city like Delhi that doesn't absolve me of the complicity in a belief system that by its very "a priori" nature exclude the other. The communal polarisation that we have witnessed during/after Gujarat riots is a fitting instance. People who had nothing to do with the riots and were leading a peaceful life with their neighbours who professed other religion/s turned hostile the moment the stench of burning bodies filled the air. All their "souhard" went down the drain. In a communal frenzy of the riot, when people are faced with the prospect of extinction supposedly apolitical element of religiosity converts to a fanatic hatred for the other. And its because the germs are there in the first place, the need is to stoke the fire. I don't know perhaps my argument needs to be elaborated more in philosophical terms rather than weighed like mangoes on a weighing scale. All i ask is : is the thought of taking lessons from our histories and marching on to build a future that could secure the future of our coming generations which are responsible not to their "ist dev" but to each other in the world society such an "indecent" and far-fetched idea. The proposed future certainly need not be built upon the rubble of the past but upon certain foudations that are still there but need to be delved upon. So many centuries of living cultures and civilisation would have atleast something to build such an ideal society. And if we are not able to find such things as useful for a future human society we need not despair for we know that the responsibility of sustaining and bettering our world is in our hands and we can ignore it only at our own peril. Religions are living traditions and can certainly not be banished ( and not "banned") in one go. History, culture and society are not softwares where CUT and PASTE are quick options. Whatever we need to learn from all our religions and religious texts we need to do, our progressive brothers have already ploughed enough field, but we certainly need not get attached to the deadwood of the past. Its a task rather a long...long revolution which hundreds of coming generation might find a difficult proposition yet its worth aspiring for. At the philosophical level, the problem is with the perennial springs of our belief systems and the problem is patent. So, i would reiterate, we have two options: either take the current state of strife and religious hostility as a "normal" state of being - for there have never been communities that we conjure up for ourselves in future - and keep on fighting for communal harmony as a normal affair and take the path to be the destination OR begin fighting for a "religion-less" ( religion in the sense of usage in currency) human/e society that has learnt enough lessons from its history and culture and which is "hell bent upon" to save the world for future generations to come. When i can believe in a pilot that he won't crash me somewhere downthere why am i not ready to struggle to formulate a neo system of belief in the goodness of my fellow human being. Why am i not ready to "believe" in such an ideal when every moment of my existence is based on unacknowledge and invisible and certainly unpalatable belief in the other person. I would like to be corrected if i am wrong. If i am not ready to learn and am not ready to take responsibility of my history and society and culture of which i am a rightful, though unwilling, heir and am not ready to fight for a future that could accommodate every human being without prejudices, i certainly need not exist. Right bro's? On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:24 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Murali, > > I never spoke about Gayatri Mantri or anything about it. Where does this > come from sir? I think you must be mistaken. > > -Anupam > > > On 8/1/09, Murali V wrote: > > > > That is because U had stated that Gayatri Mantra is of religious nature > > which I had countered. > > > > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:19 PM, anupam chakravartty >wrote: > > > >> Dear Murali, > >> > >> My issue here why are we discussng burqa clad women going to school on > >> this > >> reader's list sir. what difference did it make to your belief system or > >> how > >> did it threaten your existence? Also if chanting Gayatri mantra helps > you > >> to > >> breathe better how or why does this reader's list has to bear the > effects? > >> > >> -anupam > >> > >> On 8/1/09, Murali V wrote: > >> > > >> > Dear Anupam, > >> > > >> > Dear Anupam, > >> > > >> > > >> > The issue of uniformity has still not been addressed. A burkha clad > girl > >> in > >> > a school cannot be questioned and if done, the media and the entire > >> > pseudo-seculars go all out to call it hindu fanaticism. > >> > > >> > > >> > Atma or the soul, life after death and re-birth are concepts which is > >> their > >> > in most faiths. Moreover the Gaytri mantra is also a breathing > exercise > >> as > >> > the stanzas repeated in its correct form has set timings to control > >> breath. > >> > > >> > > >> > Regards, > >> > V Murali > >> > > >> > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Pheeta Ram > >> wrote: > >> > > >> >> Dear Murali, > >> >> Institutions run by religious sects would be like that only otherwise > >> why > >> >> would they set > >> >> up schools in the name of their religions in the first place. Every > >> >> religion has an agenda. > >> >> More the followers more the currency. But what i am pointing towards > is > >> >> the fact that > >> >> even a school run by a government, and just imagine how many schools > >> are > >> >> there all over > >> >> India, indulges in practices, and "uniformly" so, which are nothing > >> short > >> >> of proselytisation. > >> >> When my son is asked to chant a Hindu Gayatri Mantra, or prayers that > >> talk > >> >> of "Atma" and > >> >> "Parmatma" isn't it silent conversion to Hindu faith by a government > >> that > >> >> needs to be neutral > >> >> in terms of religion. > >> >> > >> >> When you level charges, let me tell you, "opposite is true too." So > >> don't > >> >> exert yourself so hard. > >> >> Moreover, if i am discriminated against my religion that doesn't give > >> me > >> >> the right to read "fatwas" > >> >> against people who "just" extend the boundaries of citizenship to our > >> >> relief. I won't ask my little son > >> >> to go and kill his classmates just because he is being asked to chant > a > >> >> "mantra" that he has come > >> >> to believe he doesn't need to or is unjustified ( given my > >> brainwashing) > >> >> in the first place. He has the right > >> >> to be nurtured in a world where he is not preordained into the > >> watertight > >> >> compartment of some religion. > >> >> > >> >> Things are not so simple and straightforward as you would have them > to > >> be. > >> >> In a public discussion forum > >> >> everybody needs to be patient and not panic just because some > >> "fan-atic" > >> >> has fanned an imaginary jingoitst > >> >> or communal frenzy. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 10:03 AM, Murali V >> >wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> Dear Anupam, > >> >>> I have never nor will I ever talk of destruction of any kind. My > only > >> >>> concern is that when we talk of secularism, it has to be followed > with > >> >>> absolute clarity and without any bias. It is only pseudo-secularism > >> which > >> >>> is > >> >>> the norm. > >> >>> > >> >>> A school run by christian isnstitutions does not allow hindu boys to > >> come > >> >>> with Sandal paste on their foreheadin and with a black towel worn > >> around > >> >>> the waist during the fasting period before going to Sabarimala, does > >> not > >> >>> allow girls to wear the traditional bindi on their forehead while a > >> >>> school > >> >>> run by a hindu institution cannot object to the girl coming to > school > >> in > >> >>> a > >> >>> Burkha. > >> >>> > >> >>> The word "uniform" is not applicable to some. > >> >>> > >> >>> Crores of Tax payers money is spent every year on the Mecca trip, > >> while > >> >>> Hindus will have to pay tax to go to the holy shrines atop the > >> himalayas. > >> >>> > >> >>> Regards, > >> >>> > >> >>> Murali V > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> tion > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:16 AM, anupam chakravartty < > >> c.anupam at gmail.com > >> >>> >wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>> > Dear Murli, > >> >>> > I am really sorry to say the stories you have been posting about > >> >>> > Murshidabad > >> >>> > are far from true. It is the perspective of someone who has a > >> sectarian > >> >>> > understanding of the problem. You generalised the gang rivalry in > >> the > >> >>> > region > >> >>> > to the slaying of the hindus. The problem here lies in the fact in > >> the > >> >>> > process of strenghtening your sectarian identity you tend to > >> accomodate > >> >>> a > >> >>> > lot of devaints who could have otherwise found some gainful > >> employment. > >> >>> > Here > >> >>> > there were two agrarian gangs fighting for resources like > terrorism, > >> >>> > manipulation and worst of all, lure of power with the help of fear > >> and > >> >>> > threats. > >> >>> > I refuse to be manipulated. It is a personal protest demanding a > >> fair > >> >>> play. > >> >>> > From very close quarters, I have seen the sectarian identity > >> >>> functioning > >> >>> > seditiously, poisoning minds which could have done better than > what > >> >>> they > >> >>> > are > >> >>> > doing. I dont want my brethren to be blinded by the propaganda of > >> fear > >> >>> from > >> >>> > the state's side or from gun runners. Insecurity drives people > >> crazy. A > >> >>> > nation full of people, with their aspirations cannot be cheated to > >> >>> perform > >> >>> > such a heinous crime killing or plundering or looting. They > >> inherently > >> >>> want > >> >>> > fair play although when manipulated, they needed to be told that > >> there > >> >>> is > >> >>> > no > >> >>> > point in worrying about who you are -- it is about what you are > >> doing. > >> >>> > Sir, nation building is not an easy task. Do you think in a > >> homogenous > >> >>> > society (as you speak for the Hindu community) you can stop the > >> >>> individual > >> >>> > aspirations? Lets say as a reaction you chased out devaints of all > >> >>> kinds, > >> >>> > and only your kinds exist, would you be able to control > subversion? > >> You > >> >>> > cannot afford to be unfair here. > >> >>> > > >> >>> > I wont tell you about the multi-sectarian society and benefits > that > >> it > >> >>> > brings. Because you know what it means and since as a reaction, > you > >> >>> have > >> >>> > also consciously chosen to deviate from such a possibility of > multi > >> >>> racial > >> >>> > or sectarian society. But whether should i respect this deviance > at > >> the > >> >>> > cost > >> >>> > of accomodating all the wrong doings is something that needs a > >> >>> > philosophical > >> >>> > understanding. A historical and a subjective (i know this word is > >> >>> likely > >> >>> > displease several readers here) understanding always accomodates > >> >>> conflicts > >> >>> > as the prime reason for all creations sectarian or otherwise (from > >> >>> small > >> >>> > panchyats, to the demand for new railway stations to demand for a > >> >>> seperate > >> >>> > state hood). These reactions are provokative and instead of > painful > >> >>> task of > >> >>> > solving these issues in light of rational solutions, it proposes > an > >> >>> easier > >> >>> > victory over such ailments -- by destruction. It is from here, I > >> said: > >> >>> "I > >> >>> > would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's an > >> >>> assurance > >> >>> > to > >> >>> > you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas here I > >> will > >> >>> > keep > >> >>> > on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your claims." > >> You > >> >>> are > >> >>> > most welcome to critique in the same rational, peaceful way not as > >> >>> someone > >> >>> > shouting "kill them all" in a discussion forums as this. Killing > me > >> is > >> >>> not > >> >>> > enough Sir. > >> >>> > - with warm regards > >> >>> > Anupam > >> >>> > > >> >>> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Murali V < > murali.chalam at gmail.com > >> > > >> >>> > wrote: > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > And I shall also try to counter every one of your claims. > >> >>> > > Regards, > >> >>> > > V Murali > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:16 PM, anupam chakravartty < > >> >>> c.anupam at gmail.com > >> >>> > >wrote: > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > >> Dear Rajen > >> >>> > >> You can go on and be sectarian. The moderator in this reader's > >> list > >> >>> > doesnt > >> >>> > >> seem to have a problem. And i respect your democratic rights > sir > >> >>> that > >> >>> > the > >> >>> > >> constitution guarantees you. I am just calling for a boycott of > >> such > >> >>> > >> agendas. > >> >>> > >> I would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's > an > >> >>> > >> assurance > >> >>> > >> to you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas > >> here > >> >>> I > >> >>> > will > >> >>> > >> keep on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your > >> >>> claims. > >> >>> > Take > >> >>> > >> my word for that. > >> >>> > >> Best wishes > >> >>> > >> Anupam > >> >>> > >> > >> >>> > >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < > >> >>> > >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > >> >>> > >> > >> >>> > >> > sword is having both sides sharp.Your thoughts apply to all > of > >> us, > >> >>> as > >> >>> > we > >> >>> > >> > post. > >> >>> > >> > > >> >>> > >> > Regards, > >> >>> > >> > Rajen. > >> >>> > >> > > >> >>> > >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:05 PM, anupam chakravartty < > >> >>> > >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: > >> >>> > >> > > >> >>> > >> >> Dear Rajen > >> >>> > >> >> why are u pointing people, naming them? has anybody named > you > >> >>> rajen. > >> >>> > i > >> >>> > >> >> guess > >> >>> > >> >> they (as in Taha and Javed) speak of it because you keep on > >> >>> > questioning > >> >>> > >> >> them > >> >>> > >> >> pinpointing them all the time, makign generic statements > >> against > >> >>> a > >> >>> > >> >> community > >> >>> > >> >> is something that you guys keep doing. i will never forget > >> what > >> >>> you > >> >>> > >> said > >> >>> > >> >> to > >> >>> > >> >> meera rizvi (your surname suggest). first clean up your act > >> then > >> >>> > point > >> >>> > >> out > >> >>> > >> >> others > >> >>> > >> >> -anupam > >> >>> > >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < > >> >>> > >> >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >>> > >> >> > Dear Anupam jee, > >> >>> > >> >> > who owns the hindu religion, it i universal way of > life, > >> so > >> >>> > also > >> >>> > >> the > >> >>> > >> >> > islam, but why a taha, a javed speak for it, do they own > >> >>> islam.?If > >> >>> > >> any > >> >>> > >> >> of us > >> >>> > >> >> > talk of ills our seculars have ready question that we do > not > >> >>> speak > >> >>> > >> for > >> >>> > >> >> > hindu, but they join to defend a husain for his right to > >> >>> express > >> >>> > art > >> >>> > >> in > >> >>> > >> >> > deities in his style, but no right to art for his own > >> faith.? > >> >>> Art > >> >>> > is > >> >>> > >> >> > heartless when it is just art, but only commerce. > >> >>> > >> >> > > >> >>> > >> >> > Regards, > >> >>> > >> >> > > >> >>> > >> >> > Rajen. > >> >>> > >> >> > > >> >>> > >> >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:40 PM, anupam chakravartty < > >> >>> > >> >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: > >> >>> > >> >> > > >> >>> > >> >> >> Dear Rajen, > >> >>> > >> >> >> My position has been same against all kinds of religious > >> >>> > extremism. > >> >>> > >> >> along > >> >>> > >> >> >> with several other list members have been opposed to > these > >> >>> issues. > >> >>> > >> if u > >> >>> > >> >> >> can > >> >>> > >> >> >> show me one instance which according to you contradicts > my > >> >>> earlier > >> >>> > >> >> >> position, > >> >>> > >> >> >> then i would like withdraw this boycott call from my > side. > >> I > >> >>> wish > >> >>> > to > >> >>> > >> >> argue > >> >>> > >> >> >> no more on this. i know you do not own hindu religion so > my > >> >>> advice > >> >>> > >> is > >> >>> > >> >> that > >> >>> > >> >> >> u > >> >>> > >> >> >> should assuming this self styled of this religion and > >> >>> criticise > >> >>> > >> others. > >> >>> > >> >> i > >> >>> > >> >> >> do > >> >>> > >> >> >> not expect a change of heart from u but in case if that > >> >>> happens it > >> >>> > >> is > >> >>> > >> >> also > >> >>> > >> >> >> welcome. > >> >>> > >> >> >> - best wishes > >> >>> > >> >> >> anupam > >> >>> > >> >> >> > >> >>> > >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Rakesh Iyer < > >> >>> > >> rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com> > >> >>> > >> >> >> wrote: > >> >>> > >> >> >> > >> >>> > >> >> >> > Dear all > >> >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >>> > >> >> >> > I just read a story of the Panchatantra, and it seems > to > >> >>> > resonate > >> >>> > >> >> with > >> >>> > >> >> >> what > >> >>> > >> >> >> > one of my friends told yesterday: 'People change, they > >> do, > >> >>> but > >> >>> > >> don't > >> >>> > >> >> >> force > >> >>> > >> >> >> > them to change. They take it at their ego' > >> >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >>> > >> >> >> > Here's hoping for that change one day from Murali ji, > >> Rajen > >> >>> ji, > >> >>> > >> and > >> >>> > >> >> >> others > >> >>> > >> >> >> > of their like. And no more replies asking them to > change > >> or > >> >>> > >> >> criticizing > >> >>> > >> >> >> > them. > >> >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >>> > >> >> >> > Regards > >> >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >>> > >> >> >> > Rakesh > >> >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >>> > >> >> >> _________________________________________ > >> >>> > >> >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > >> >>> > >> >> >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> >>> > >> >> >> To subscribe: send an email to > >> reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > >> >>> > >> >> >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> >>> > >> >> >> To unsubscribe: > >> >>> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >>> > >> >> >> List archive: < > >> >>> https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >>> > >> >> >> > >> >>> > >> >> > > >> >>> > >> >> > > >> >>> > >> >> > > >> >>> > >> >> > -- > >> >>> > >> >> > Rajen. > >> >>> > >> >> > > >> >>> > >> >> > > >> >>> > >> >> _________________________________________ > >> >>> > >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >>> > >> >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> >>> > >> >> To subscribe: send an email to > >> reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > >> >>> > >> >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> >>> > >> >> To unsubscribe: > >> >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >>> > >> >> List archive: < > >> https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >>> > >> > > >> >>> > >> > > >> >>> > >> > > >> >>> > >> > -- > >> >>> > >> > Rajen. > >> >>> > >> > > >> >>> > >> > > >> >>> > >> _________________________________________ > >> >>> > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >>> > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> >>> > >> To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > >> >>> > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> >>> > >> To unsubscribe: > >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >>> > >> List archive: < > https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >>> > >> > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > _________________________________________ > >> >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >>> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> >>> > subscribe in the subject header. > >> >>> > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >>> > > >> >>> _________________________________________ > >> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >>> Critiques & Collaborations > >> >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> >>> subscribe in the subject header. > >> >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 13:52:51 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 13:52:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: <5bedab660908010110u3bbab34bi2327d55b6d52f2f7@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00907310144vbcb4d37sf40d6bd434ffc18@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907310956n772d29acuf8ccda5710a3454f@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907311146o1cf1eecak514d76d9f18537e2@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907312133t6b3a595dg99d54e01c1b43ef1@mail.gmail.com> <5bedab660907312202k406da437kb96372366de2e8ae@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907312330h61e61fc5o398b0db4f0456b15@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907312349p16efe75fj5451a0a7cd81cc34@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907312351k36d2799cgadab849e114d4d1e@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907312354p67cefe3awa924ee216b267ab4@mail.gmail.com> <5bedab660908010110u3bbab34bi2327d55b6d52f2f7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear all The intrinsic argument in most of these hate mails seems to be that Islam as a religion is the major problem, for the Quran by religion doesn't encourage people to live in harmony with people of other religions. Also, the manner in which the Quran is written, the Suras or the verses used in it as well as their meaning has been used as a point to state that Islam is a problem for the nation, and for the world. Yesterday, as I saw a Youtube video on Muslim demographics posted in this very forum, it states that Muslims have a very high birth rate in many European countries. There is no clarity as to why this is being opposed, except on the grounds of changing culture, which is unfair because culture is never stagnant and always changes. Another concern for me is that there must be some context in which all these military campaigns of Muhammad would have been carried out, and also different contexts in which he gave such messages. Therefore, it would be great enough if one could put some of these contexts in which some of the Suras used by jihadists are put up, so that a proper understanding of these takes place, and the growth of fundamentalism and extremism can be curbed. It's in this context that Pheeta's mail seems correct, for one can't simply ignore fundamentalism and extremism. But they have to be combated by a mixture of making other issues important, as well as sidelining them through judicial, police, education and social reforms. These will ultimately go on to the political side finally, which is of course the last stage of reform (meaning reform of electoral and party-based political system). And in that context, one needs to know what kinds of these verses are being misused , as also the shlokas of the Gita. Regards Rakesh From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 13:53:25 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 13:53:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: <341380d00907312354p67cefe3awa924ee216b267ab4@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00907310144vbcb4d37sf40d6bd434ffc18@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907310546w12631d90teb9c8ae491c9f0cb@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907310956n772d29acuf8ccda5710a3454f@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907311146o1cf1eecak514d76d9f18537e2@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907312133t6b3a595dg99d54e01c1b43ef1@mail.gmail.com> <5bedab660907312202k406da437kb96372366de2e8ae@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907312330h61e61fc5o398b0db4f0456b15@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907312349p16efe75fj5451a0a7cd81cc34@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907312351k36d2799cgadab849e114d4d1e@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907312354p67cefe3awa924ee216b267ab4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908010123j2d9da8f0r6db8de0d89736655@mail.gmail.com> Dear Anupam, and all, are you not forwarding your sectarian agenda on to the list.? Why this double standards, if the thoughts are not liked or acceptable you have right to dissent, disagree, but you talk of swords and fights.! In all my posts I have emphasized the humanitarian aspects of the society, never hated the faith of any denomination, but positively disagreed with fanatics of all faiths when they "impose" their faith in words and posts and the actions, and as to naming, if you are keen, please note that the posts regarding the national ids and their implementation is opposed with arguments regarding funds, use of funds and all issues about tendering to big companies etc, but the latent fear factor is oblivious, that the activities , both good and illegal can be monitored, why not may i ask, for the good of the society.?Why should any citizen be scared to be noted for his activities if he is not in to mischief of sheltoring, helping and providing logistic supports to anti national activities, for his fanatic faith, for money and other inducements why not the citizens be protected against such acts.?We have seen in the convicted accused of Mumbai blasts, few customs officials who went for corruption facilitating landing of explosives and arms.? Quite a few were involved because substantial amount of money was paid, faith was only justification for the jihad.? Worst, when the death fell on victims of the terror, the death and miseries did not discriminate in delivery of misery , hurt, injuries and death on their faith as all of different faith had to share this.! Kasab when shot in CST, the first lot of five deaths were of a poor muslim family, in his jihad.! So what is the sectarian point you are trying to make out of my posts, when i seek my God in the good of all living beings, not in temples, mosques or churches.? As to damaged temples or any place of worship, and also the governance, system of governance and political parties are not construction companies to do that job, it is for the rule of laws to settle the matters pending in the courts for decades, and the citizens to contribute and construct their place of worship in good harmony with society.System of governance should not have any "faith" in its governance of faiths be it wakf,or mujrai, leave it to that faith to manage their affairs, like they have done for some faiths, selectively. .System of governance has no business to govern the faiths, but only deliver good of democracy as per rule of laws, to each of its constituted member - of all faiths, irrespective of his/her faith, caste, or gender or clor of his / her skin. Discrimination based on any of the above, favouring one group of individuals on the basis of any of the above mentioned is bad governance, which leads to frustration, to protests, some peaceful, some violent, thus violence breeds further on itself. Well, as you may have wrongly presumed, I do not beieve in violence or sword, but self defence is another matter.For that strong mind, intellect is enough to face the pen or sword, or both. Regards, Rajen. On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:24 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Murali, > > I never spoke about Gayatri Mantri or anything about it. Where does this > come from sir? I think you must be mistaken. > > -Anupam > > > On 8/1/09, Murali V wrote: > > > > That is because U had stated that Gayatri Mantra is of religious nature > > which I had countered. > > > > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:19 PM, anupam chakravartty >wrote: > > > >> Dear Murali, > >> > >> My issue here why are we discussng burqa clad women going to school on > >> this > >> reader's list sir. what difference did it make to your belief system or > >> how > >> did it threaten your existence? Also if chanting Gayatri mantra helps > you > >> to > >> breathe better how or why does this reader's list has to bear the > effects? > >> > >> -anupam > >> > >> On 8/1/09, Murali V wrote: > >> > > >> > Dear Anupam, > >> > > >> > Dear Anupam, > >> > > >> > > >> > The issue of uniformity has still not been addressed. A burkha clad > girl > >> in > >> > a school cannot be questioned and if done, the media and the entire > >> > pseudo-seculars go all out to call it hindu fanaticism. > >> > > >> > > >> > Atma or the soul, life after death and re-birth are concepts which is > >> their > >> > in most faiths. Moreover the Gaytri mantra is also a breathing > exercise > >> as > >> > the stanzas repeated in its correct form has set timings to control > >> breath. > >> > > >> > > >> > Regards, > >> > V Murali > >> > > >> > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Pheeta Ram > >> wrote: > >> > > >> >> Dear Murali, > >> >> Institutions run by religious sects would be like that only otherwise > >> why > >> >> would they set > >> >> up schools in the name of their religions in the first place. Every > >> >> religion has an agenda. > >> >> More the followers more the currency. But what i am pointing towards > is > >> >> the fact that > >> >> even a school run by a government, and just imagine how many schools > >> are > >> >> there all over > >> >> India, indulges in practices, and "uniformly" so, which are nothing > >> short > >> >> of proselytisation. > >> >> When my son is asked to chant a Hindu Gayatri Mantra, or prayers that > >> talk > >> >> of "Atma" and > >> >> "Parmatma" isn't it silent conversion to Hindu faith by a government > >> that > >> >> needs to be neutral > >> >> in terms of religion. > >> >> > >> >> When you level charges, let me tell you, "opposite is true too." So > >> don't > >> >> exert yourself so hard. > >> >> Moreover, if i am discriminated against my religion that doesn't give > >> me > >> >> the right to read "fatwas" > >> >> against people who "just" extend the boundaries of citizenship to our > >> >> relief. I won't ask my little son > >> >> to go and kill his classmates just because he is being asked to chant > a > >> >> "mantra" that he has come > >> >> to believe he doesn't need to or is unjustified ( given my > >> brainwashing) > >> >> in the first place. He has the right > >> >> to be nurtured in a world where he is not preordained into the > >> watertight > >> >> compartment of some religion. > >> >> > >> >> Things are not so simple and straightforward as you would have them > to > >> be. > >> >> In a public discussion forum > >> >> everybody needs to be patient and not panic just because some > >> "fan-atic" > >> >> has fanned an imaginary jingoitst > >> >> or communal frenzy. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 10:03 AM, Murali V >> >wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> Dear Anupam, > >> >>> I have never nor will I ever talk of destruction of any kind. My > only > >> >>> concern is that when we talk of secularism, it has to be followed > with > >> >>> absolute clarity and without any bias. It is only pseudo-secularism > >> which > >> >>> is > >> >>> the norm. > >> >>> > >> >>> A school run by christian isnstitutions does not allow hindu boys to > >> come > >> >>> with Sandal paste on their foreheadin and with a black towel worn > >> around > >> >>> the waist during the fasting period before going to Sabarimala, does > >> not > >> >>> allow girls to wear the traditional bindi on their forehead while a > >> >>> school > >> >>> run by a hindu institution cannot object to the girl coming to > school > >> in > >> >>> a > >> >>> Burkha. > >> >>> > >> >>> The word "uniform" is not applicable to some. > >> >>> > >> >>> Crores of Tax payers money is spent every year on the Mecca trip, > >> while > >> >>> Hindus will have to pay tax to go to the holy shrines atop the > >> himalayas. > >> >>> > >> >>> Regards, > >> >>> > >> >>> Murali V > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> tion > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:16 AM, anupam chakravartty < > >> c.anupam at gmail.com > >> >>> >wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>> > Dear Murli, > >> >>> > I am really sorry to say the stories you have been posting about > >> >>> > Murshidabad > >> >>> > are far from true. It is the perspective of someone who has a > >> sectarian > >> >>> > understanding of the problem. You generalised the gang rivalry in > >> the > >> >>> > region > >> >>> > to the slaying of the hindus. The problem here lies in the fact in > >> the > >> >>> > process of strenghtening your sectarian identity you tend to > >> accomodate > >> >>> a > >> >>> > lot of devaints who could have otherwise found some gainful > >> employment. > >> >>> > Here > >> >>> > there were two agrarian gangs fighting for resources like > terrorism, > >> >>> > manipulation and worst of all, lure of power with the help of fear > >> and > >> >>> > threats. > >> >>> > I refuse to be manipulated. It is a personal protest demanding a > >> fair > >> >>> play. > >> >>> > From very close quarters, I have seen the sectarian identity > >> >>> functioning > >> >>> > seditiously, poisoning minds which could have done better than > what > >> >>> they > >> >>> > are > >> >>> > doing. I dont want my brethren to be blinded by the propaganda of > >> fear > >> >>> from > >> >>> > the state's side or from gun runners. Insecurity drives people > >> crazy. A > >> >>> > nation full of people, with their aspirations cannot be cheated to > >> >>> perform > >> >>> > such a heinous crime killing or plundering or looting. They > >> inherently > >> >>> want > >> >>> > fair play although when manipulated, they needed to be told that > >> there > >> >>> is > >> >>> > no > >> >>> > point in worrying about who you are -- it is about what you are > >> doing. > >> >>> > Sir, nation building is not an easy task. Do you think in a > >> homogenous > >> >>> > society (as you speak for the Hindu community) you can stop the > >> >>> individual > >> >>> > aspirations? Lets say as a reaction you chased out devaints of all > >> >>> kinds, > >> >>> > and only your kinds exist, would you be able to control > subversion? > >> You > >> >>> > cannot afford to be unfair here. > >> >>> > > >> >>> > I wont tell you about the multi-sectarian society and benefits > that > >> it > >> >>> > brings. Because you know what it means and since as a reaction, > you > >> >>> have > >> >>> > also consciously chosen to deviate from such a possibility of > multi > >> >>> racial > >> >>> > or sectarian society. But whether should i respect this deviance > at > >> the > >> >>> > cost > >> >>> > of accomodating all the wrong doings is something that needs a > >> >>> > philosophical > >> >>> > understanding. A historical and a subjective (i know this word is > >> >>> likely > >> >>> > displease several readers here) understanding always accomodates > >> >>> conflicts > >> >>> > as the prime reason for all creations sectarian or otherwise (from > >> >>> small > >> >>> > panchyats, to the demand for new railway stations to demand for a > >> >>> seperate > >> >>> > state hood). These reactions are provokative and instead of > painful > >> >>> task of > >> >>> > solving these issues in light of rational solutions, it proposes > an > >> >>> easier > >> >>> > victory over such ailments -- by destruction. It is from here, I > >> said: > >> >>> "I > >> >>> > would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's an > >> >>> assurance > >> >>> > to > >> >>> > you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas here I > >> will > >> >>> > keep > >> >>> > on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your claims." > >> You > >> >>> are > >> >>> > most welcome to critique in the same rational, peaceful way not as > >> >>> someone > >> >>> > shouting "kill them all" in a discussion forums as this. Killing > me > >> is > >> >>> not > >> >>> > enough Sir. > >> >>> > - with warm regards > >> >>> > Anupam > >> >>> > > >> >>> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Murali V < > murali.chalam at gmail.com > >> > > >> >>> > wrote: > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > And I shall also try to counter every one of your claims. > >> >>> > > Regards, > >> >>> > > V Murali > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:16 PM, anupam chakravartty < > >> >>> c.anupam at gmail.com > >> >>> > >wrote: > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > >> Dear Rajen > >> >>> > >> You can go on and be sectarian. The moderator in this reader's > >> list > >> >>> > doesnt > >> >>> > >> seem to have a problem. And i respect your democratic rights > sir > >> >>> that > >> >>> > the > >> >>> > >> constitution guarantees you. I am just calling for a boycott of > >> such > >> >>> > >> agendas. > >> >>> > >> I would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's > an > >> >>> > >> assurance > >> >>> > >> to you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas > >> here > >> >>> I > >> >>> > will > >> >>> > >> keep on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your > >> >>> claims. > >> >>> > Take > >> >>> > >> my word for that. > >> >>> > >> Best wishes > >> >>> > >> Anupam > >> >>> > >> > >> >>> > >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < > >> >>> > >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > >> >>> > >> > >> >>> > >> > sword is having both sides sharp.Your thoughts apply to all > of > >> us, > >> >>> as > >> >>> > we > >> >>> > >> > post. > >> >>> > >> > > >> >>> > >> > Regards, > >> >>> > >> > Rajen. > >> >>> > >> > > >> >>> > >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:05 PM, anupam chakravartty < > >> >>> > >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: > >> >>> > >> > > >> >>> > >> >> Dear Rajen > >> >>> > >> >> why are u pointing people, naming them? has anybody named > you > >> >>> rajen. > >> >>> > i > >> >>> > >> >> guess > >> >>> > >> >> they (as in Taha and Javed) speak of it because you keep on > >> >>> > questioning > >> >>> > >> >> them > >> >>> > >> >> pinpointing them all the time, makign generic statements > >> against > >> >>> a > >> >>> > >> >> community > >> >>> > >> >> is something that you guys keep doing. i will never forget > >> what > >> >>> you > >> >>> > >> said > >> >>> > >> >> to > >> >>> > >> >> meera rizvi (your surname suggest). first clean up your act > >> then > >> >>> > point > >> >>> > >> out > >> >>> > >> >> others > >> >>> > >> >> -anupam > >> >>> > >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < > >> >>> > >> >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >>> > >> >> > Dear Anupam jee, > >> >>> > >> >> > who owns the hindu religion, it i universal way of > life, > >> so > >> >>> > also > >> >>> > >> the > >> >>> > >> >> > islam, but why a taha, a javed speak for it, do they own > >> >>> islam.?If > >> >>> > >> any > >> >>> > >> >> of us > >> >>> > >> >> > talk of ills our seculars have ready question that we do > not > >> >>> speak > >> >>> > >> for > >> >>> > >> >> > hindu, but they join to defend a husain for his right to > >> >>> express > >> >>> > art > >> >>> > >> in > >> >>> > >> >> > deities in his style, but no right to art for his own > >> faith.? > >> >>> Art > >> >>> > is > >> >>> > >> >> > heartless when it is just art, but only commerce. > >> >>> > >> >> > > >> >>> > >> >> > Regards, > >> >>> > >> >> > > >> >>> > >> >> > Rajen. > >> >>> > >> >> > > >> >>> > >> >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:40 PM, anupam chakravartty < > >> >>> > >> >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: > >> >>> > >> >> > > >> >>> > >> >> >> Dear Rajen, > >> >>> > >> >> >> My position has been same against all kinds of religious > >> >>> > extremism. > >> >>> > >> >> along > >> >>> > >> >> >> with several other list members have been opposed to > these > >> >>> issues. > >> >>> > >> if u > >> >>> > >> >> >> can > >> >>> > >> >> >> show me one instance which according to you contradicts > my > >> >>> earlier > >> >>> > >> >> >> position, > >> >>> > >> >> >> then i would like withdraw this boycott call from my > side. > >> I > >> >>> wish > >> >>> > to > >> >>> > >> >> argue > >> >>> > >> >> >> no more on this. i know you do not own hindu religion so > my > >> >>> advice > >> >>> > >> is > >> >>> > >> >> that > >> >>> > >> >> >> u > >> >>> > >> >> >> should assuming this self styled of this religion and > >> >>> criticise > >> >>> > >> others. > >> >>> > >> >> i > >> >>> > >> >> >> do > >> >>> > >> >> >> not expect a change of heart from u but in case if that > >> >>> happens it > >> >>> > >> is > >> >>> > >> >> also > >> >>> > >> >> >> welcome. > >> >>> > >> >> >> - best wishes > >> >>> > >> >> >> anupam > >> >>> > >> >> >> > >> >>> > >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Rakesh Iyer < > >> >>> > >> rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com> > >> >>> > >> >> >> wrote: > >> >>> > >> >> >> > >> >>> > >> >> >> > Dear all > >> >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >>> > >> >> >> > I just read a story of the Panchatantra, and it seems > to > >> >>> > resonate > >> >>> > >> >> with > >> >>> > >> >> >> what > >> >>> > >> >> >> > one of my friends told yesterday: 'People change, they > >> do, > >> >>> but > >> >>> > >> don't > >> >>> > >> >> >> force > >> >>> > >> >> >> > them to change. They take it at their ego' > >> >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >>> > >> >> >> > Here's hoping for that change one day from Murali ji, > >> Rajen > >> >>> ji, > >> >>> > >> and > >> >>> > >> >> >> others > >> >>> > >> >> >> > of their like. And no more replies asking them to > change > >> or > >> >>> > >> >> criticizing > >> >>> > >> >> >> > them. > >> >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >>> > >> >> >> > Regards > >> >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >>> > >> >> >> > Rakesh > >> >>> > >> >> >> > > >> >>> > >> >> >> _________________________________________ > >> >>> > >> >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > >> >>> > >> >> >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> >>> > >> >> >> To subscribe: send an email to > >> reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > >> >>> > >> >> >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> >>> > >> >> >> To unsubscribe: > >> >>> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >>> > >> >> >> List archive: < > >> >>> https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >>> > >> >> >> > >> >>> > >> >> > > >> >>> > >> >> > > >> >>> > >> >> > > >> >>> > >> >> > -- > >> >>> > >> >> > Rajen. > >> >>> > >> >> > > >> >>> > >> >> > > >> >>> > >> >> _________________________________________ > >> >>> > >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >>> > >> >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> >>> > >> >> To subscribe: send an email to > >> reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > >> >>> > >> >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> >>> > >> >> To unsubscribe: > >> >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >>> > >> >> List archive: < > >> https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >>> > >> > > >> >>> > >> > > >> >>> > >> > > >> >>> > >> > -- > >> >>> > >> > Rajen. > >> >>> > >> > > >> >>> > >> > > >> >>> > >> _________________________________________ > >> >>> > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >>> > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> >>> > >> To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > >> >>> > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> >>> > >> To unsubscribe: > >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >>> > >> List archive: < > https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >>> > >> > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > _________________________________________ > >> >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >>> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> >>> > subscribe in the subject header. > >> >>> > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >>> > > >> >>> _________________________________________ > >> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >>> Critiques & Collaborations > >> >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> >>> subscribe in the subject header. > >> >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 13:58:45 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 13:58:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 4 Message-ID: Link: http://www.hindu.com/2009/08/01/stories/2009080155661100.htm Article: Online edition of India's National Newspaper Saturday, Aug 01, 2009 ePaper | Mobile/PDA Version [image: Google] ------------------------------ ------------------------------ *Front Page* News: ePaper | Front Page| National | Tamil Nadu| Andhra Pradesh | Karnataka| Kerala | New Delhi| Other States | International| Opinion | Business| Sport | Miscellaneous| Engagements | Advts: Retail Plus | Classifieds| Jobs | Front Page [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] * Madhya Pradesh clueless as children die of malnutrition * Mahim Pratap Singh * Over 450 deaths in four districts since May 2008, say NGOs * — PHOTO: A.M. FARUQUI * SHOCKING REVELATION: Malnourished children from Korku tribe of Khandwa district in Madhya Pradesh. * Bhopal: The State government’s efforts to address malnutrition among children appear half-hearted, as severe malnutrition has claimed the lives of over 450 children under six, in at least four districts of Madhya Pradesh since May 2008, according to figures provided by various NGOs. According to National Family Health Survey-III, malnutrition in the State has increased from 54% to 60%, making MP children the most undernourished in India. Madhya Pradesh also tops the list of States in infant mortality rate (IMR), with 72 deaths per 1,000 live births, according to the Sample Registration Survey 2007-08. The Women and Child Development Department, however, has no clue about these deaths as it does not record or maintain data about malnutrition deaths. “We filed an RTI with the department to get the official figure for malnutrition deaths, but the department has replied saying it does not maintain any such data,” said Prashant Dubey, a Bhopal-based activist. Complaints about food Moreover, complaints regarding the food served under the Integrated Child Development Scheme (ICDS) and the mid-day meal schemes have become more and more frequent, raising doubts over the State government’s seriousness in addressing malnourishment and infant mortality. After dead frogs and rats found in food served, another incident of a similar nature came to light when students of a government-run girls’ school in Gwalior discovered dead insects in their meals. While the earlier incidents questioned the implementation of the ICDS — carried out by the Women and Child Development Department —, the new incident raises doubts over the seriousness of the State Education Department, which implements the mid-day meal scheme. Doubts were also raised by social activists in the State after the Women and Child Development Department cancelled a MoU signed with the State Bank of Indore, under which funds available under the ICDS were to be transferred directly to anganwadi workers, thereby doing away with contractors and intermediaries. The MoU, signed in 2007, was cancelled without the department receiving any formal complaints about the system, according to information provided by the department in reply to an RTI application filed by a local social activist. “We discovered that a lot of anganwadi workers were illiterate and could not manage bank accounts,” said Gulshan Bhambra, Commissioner, Women and Child Development Department. “Therefore, we reverted to the previously existing system,” he said. Why was the bank account system started at all then? It appears that the repeated incidents of sub-standard food being served under these schemes, are most likely a fallout of the previous, contract-based system, as it was discovered in the case of the Nandi foundation, an NGO supplying food to over 58,000 students in Bhopal’s government-run schools. However, even after repeated complaints about the food supplied by the foundation, the Nagar Nigam authorities have proposed seeking the extension of its contract, which has just ended, by another five years. Several other issues plague the anganwadi apparatus. Recent reports of irregularities in the recruitment process of workers led Chief Minister Shivraj Singh Chauhan to cancel the entire process and order fresh recruitments. The anganwadis are local village bodies and are crucial to the implementation of any rural mass-based scheme. A report compiled by Special Commissioners appointed by the Supreme Court — human rights activist Harsh Mandar and Dr. N.C. Saxena — puts the number of anganwadis required in the State at 1,46,000 while the current number stands at 69,738. Last month, the State government announced 9,000 additional anganwadis to be set up, but even then the number reaches nowhere near the figure recommended by the Supreme Court. The State government also came under fire from activists after it initiated efforts to “enhance” the nutritional value of the supplementary food provided under the ICDS. Under the new policy, the government decided to provide 20 different kinds of meals including kheer pudi, laddoo and mathri to the children in place of the conventional daliya (porridge). The new policy has been criticised for sacrificing micronutrient content in the food for oily and high-fat items. Micronutrients are crucial to the physical development of a child under six. * * Printer friendly page Send this article to Friends by E-Mail ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Front Page News: ePaper | Front Page| National | Tamil Nadu| Andhra Pradesh | Karnataka| Kerala | New Delhi| Other States | International| Opinion | Business| Sport | Miscellaneous| Engagements | Advts: Retail Plus | Classifieds| Jobs | Updates: Breaking News| [image: Adani Group] [image: MPTF 2009] [image: Chandraayan I] *News Update* Stories in this Section - Musharraf’s Emergency declared unconstitutional - Private airlines threaten to suspend flights on Aug. 18 - IAS officer, four family members found dead - ‘IAS officer was upset at being a suspect’ - Court revokes MCOCA in Malegaon case - Madhya Pradesh clueless as children die of malnutrition - It is a concerted attack on CPI(M), says Prakash Karat - Come for talks, private airlines told - Krishna: we haven’t removed pressure on Pakistan - Emraan Hashmi alleges religious bias by Bandra housing society - Political forces out to damage my family, says Buta Singh - Colombo eases fishing curbs - Verdict in Suu Kyi trial put off - RBI chief pitches for rollback of monetary expansion - Infosys gets CISF cover - Landslip cuts off 3 districts in Arunachal Pradesh - Court clears cross-gender spa service - Film-sets gutted in AVM Studio fire - Hiccups ‘choke’ web counselling - Disaster strikes - Woman fighting for life after murderous attack - Nandita Das to head Children’s Film Society - End of the road for Kolkata’s old vehicles? - Two killed as trainer plane crashes - Nod for acquiring land - 100 deliveries in a single month at Tirupparankundram PHC - ‘There was no obscene message’ - Patrolling stepped up off Konkan coast Archives Yesterday's Issue Datewise Features: Magazine Literary Review Metro Plus Open Page Education Plus Book Review Business SciTech NXg Friday Review Cinema Plus Young World Property Plus Quest ------------------------------ ------------------------------ The Hindu Group: Home | About Us| Copyright | Archives| Contacts | Subscription Group Sites: The Hindu | The Hindu ePaper| Business Line | Business Line ePaper| Sportstar | Frontline| Publications | eBooks| Images | Ergo | Home | Copyright © 2009, The Hindu. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of The Hindu ------------------------------ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 14:04:41 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 14:04:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Land Acquisition Message-ID: Dear all Land acquisition has been a very hot-topic in our times, starting with Singur, but also extending to other areas, and I felt that an article such as this can also help in understanding the issue in a better way. Do read the article. Enjoy. Regards Rakesh Link: http://www.hindu.com/2009/08/01/stories/2009080155420900.htm Article: Online edition of India's National Newspaper Saturday, Aug 01, 2009 ePaper | Mobile/PDA Version [image: Google] ------------------------------ ------------------------------ *Opinion* News: ePaper | Front Page| National | Tamil Nadu| Andhra Pradesh | Karnataka| Kerala | New Delhi| Other States | International| Opinion | Business| Sport | Miscellaneous| Engagements | Advts: Retail Plus | Classifieds| Jobs | Opinion - Op-Ed [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] * The real issues behind land acquisition * Pranab Bardhan * The proposed pieces of legislation on land acquisition represent an improvement over existing ones, but are still unsatisfactory. * The opportunistic and partisan stalling of the Land Acquisition and Rehabilitation and Resettlement Bills in the Cabinet recently by Mamata Banerjee has provided an opportunity to rethink some of the important provisions of the Bills (which she is not concerned about, but should have been). Under the prospective legislation, a company must first buy directly from landowners 70 per cent of the land required. The state steps in to buy the rest in case some recalcitrant landowners are holding out; even here, the sellers are guaranteed a 60 per cent premium on the average land price over the previous three years. While this is an improvement on the existing colonial land acquisition law, this is quite unsatisfactory, particularly from the point of view of stake-holders in agricultural land. Let us spell out the reasons: First, while leaving the major part of the transaction to the market may stop the matter from becoming a political game of football in populist competitive politics (as has happened in West Bengal), it is an inadequate solution to a complicated problem. Even assuming that the purpose for which the land is to be transferred is a legitimate one from an economic and environmental point of view, Indian history is replete with instances of uninformed, cash-strapped peasants being induced to sell their land at nominal prices by the lure of ready cash from developers, speculators, and touts of large corporate interests. This is how many Adivasis have lost their land even in recent years. Even in the case of informed, market-savvy sellers, thousands of small, uncoordinated farmers are no match for a large corporate buyer in the bargaining process. Of course, in many cases the State government did very little to get the landowners a good price; but there is potential here for community organisers (and panchayats) to get involved in ensuring a fair price. In particular, the provision of a 60 per cent premium on the past average price is not good enough. The average past price is for the land as agricultural land, whereas use for industrial or infrastructure purpose will probably multiply the value many times, the gain from which the farmer is deprived. So, over and above the value of the agricultural land being considered as a minimum floor of basic compensation, the farmers should be compensated with a share in the enterprise or company, so that they can benefit from future profits. Of course, the poor farmer may not have the capacity to bear the risks of fluctuating share prices. Here the role of the state is to put the farmers’ shares of the new company in an independently managed trust fund which will bear the risks at the cost of some management fees. Out of this trust fund, the farmer should be paid a steady “pension” (or annuity) every six months or so. Given the large gap between productivity in agriculture and the new activity for which the land is acquired, the farmer can be assured of a reasonable stream of pension. This will go a long way in assuaging the anxieties of an uncertain future that the farmer may contemplate in selling the land. Also, a regular pension may be more advisable than a one-off cash payment, which often tends to get frittered away. In case the land is acquired for public infrastructure building (where there may not be any direct company profits to be shared), the land should be given out by the farmer on long-term lease with the rent periodically readjusted in accordance with the current value of surrounding pieces of land and the rental increases deposited in a trust fund. Secondly, a land sale displaces not just landowners, but other stakeholders as well (sharecroppers and agricultural labourers working on the land, for example). In West Bengal*,* the government had announced compensation to be paid to registered sharecroppers (which Ms Banerjee never paid much attention to). But the state also needs to be involved in some form of welfare payments (and job training and so on) to unregistered sharecroppers and landless workers. Thirdly, the state often needs to get involved in building roads, providing electricity, water supply and so on for the new company, and this may require coordination in the land transaction itself between the transactors and the state right from the beginning. Of course, politicians often lack credibility in any process of obtaining fair compensation to land sellers*.* Cases of politicians, middlemen, and contractors defrauding poor sellers of their compensation and resettlement rights are far too many. So it may be desirable in some cases to hand over the responsibility of determining fair prices and managing the process of transfer and resettlement to an independent commission, provided political interference with the working of such a commission can be minimised and enough opportunity is given to community leaders and organisations to serve in such commissions or present their cases at hearings before the commission, and to generally act as watchdogs in the whole process. Thus, what is at stake with the new Bills is much larger and deeper than Ms Banerjee’s political gripe. *(The author is a professor of economics at the University of California, Berkeley.)* * * Printer friendly page Send this article to Friends by E-Mail ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Opinion News: ePaper | Front Page| National | Tamil Nadu| Andhra Pradesh | Karnataka| Kerala | New Delhi| Other States | International| Opinion | Business| Sport | Miscellaneous| Engagements | Advts: Retail Plus | Classifieds| Jobs | Updates: Breaking News| *News Update* Stories in this Section - Retaining flexible response options - Milestone in stem cell research - An Emmy and the general - The real issues behind land acquisition - Why he won’t go back to Afghanistan - Clarity emerging on assisted suicide in U.K. - Response from the All India Milli Council - Pope signs record deal - Corrections and Clarifications - India-Pakistan ties - Asymmetric violence - On the death penalty Archives Yesterday's Issue Datewise Features: Magazine Literary Review Metro Plus Open Page Education Plus Book Review Business SciTech NXg Friday Review Cinema Plus Young World Property Plus Quest ------------------------------ ------------------------------ The Hindu Group: Home | About Us| Copyright | Archives| Contacts | Subscription Group Sites: The Hindu | The Hindu ePaper| Business Line | Business Line ePaper| Sportstar | Frontline| Publications | eBooks| Images | Ergo | Home | Copyright © 2009, The Hindu. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of The Hindu ------------------------------ From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 14:05:15 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 14:05:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <5bedab660907312145q7abfd694h8f2820ca794a277f@mail.gmail.com> References: <133266.60611.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4eab87870907302235x3f4643dfr10c7ef2065f8db7d@mail.gmail.com> <4A72912F.1010808@gmail.com> <4A738F3F.8070002@gmail.com> <5bedab660907312145q7abfd694h8f2820ca794a277f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908010135r50ecaef9ifb34f67acff844de@mail.gmail.com> Sir, Why are you so concerned about a Roy and Setalwad, they are capable of not only taking care of themselves and in addition they are capable of being "independent" and "free"as they claim.! Regards, Rajen. On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 10:15 AM, Pheeta Ram wrote: > Don't worry guys, fingers that hit the keyboard can't pick a sword. > Moreover, if we have a look at the discourses in the public sphere there > hardly exists anything that would incite or lead to violence > against these people. These celebrity intellectuals and activists are there > for a purpose that serves > the strategic operations of both the sides, if there are two sides. Just > think of it, has anybody ever hurt > Naom Chomsky? The fanatics have learnt from past mistakes. They know that > certain people become > everthemore dangerous after they are dead. Our society is already very very > short of Heroes and role models > .Morevoer, these activists have never been of any harm to anybody.Their > parallel economies run on a studied > stance: just don't go off the edge. This will take care of their ratings > and > save their skins too, ek khareedo to doosra muft! > > > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 6:11 AM, Tapas Ray wrote: > > > Shuddha, > > > > Certainly. But the statement has ramifications far beyond the list. The > > least that should be done, I think, is to alert Roy and Setalvad. > > Although it may not trigger actual physical violence (as Sanjay thinks), > > it may. One never knows. > > > > Tapas > > > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > > > Dear Tapas, > > > > > > This statement, below > > > > > >>> who so ever talks against india - kill him or her > > >>> wipe out all antinational elements (including people like arundhati > > >>> roy and > > >>> tista settlewad) > > > > > > Is clearly an incitement to violence. And I think that the list, and > the > > > moderator, would do well to consider whether the person who has > > > contributed this sentiment, in view of our previous discussions on a > > > code of conduct for this list, should be allowed to stay on as a > member. > > > > > > best > > > > > > Shuddha > > > > > > > > > > > > On 31-Jul-09, at 12:07 PM, Tapas Ray wrote: > > > > > >> I wonder if this kind of statement in a public or semi-public forum > like > > >> Sarai might appear as an incitement to violence in the eyes of the > law. > > >> > > >> > > >> Murali V wrote: > > >>> Vedavati, > > >>> How right you are. > > >>> V Murali > > >>> > > >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Vedavati Jogi > > >>> >wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> pawan, > > >>>> before organizing attack on any mosque in 'indian occupied kashmir' > > >>>> i suggest, you please throw these sickulars out of this country . > > >>>> they are the main culprits > > >>>> > > >>>> call jagmohan to govern the j & k, > > >>>> give the military free hand > > >>>> abrogate 370 > > >>>> who so ever talks against india - kill him or her > > >>>> wipe out all antinational elements (including people like arundhati > > >>>> roy and > > >>>> tista settlewad) > > >>>> > > >>>> problem will be solved in no time. > > >>>> > > >>>> vedavati > > >>>> --- On Fri, 31/7/09, Rakesh Iyer > >>>> > wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> From: Rakesh Iyer > >>>> > > > >>>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur > > >>>> To: "Murali V" > >>>> > > > >>>> Cc: "reader-list" > reader-list at sarai.net>> > > >>>> Date: Friday, 31 July, 2009, 1:22 AM > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> So Pawan ji, when are you planning to organize attacks on some > mosques > > >>>> across the country? Or will you limit yourself to IOK > (Indian-occupied > > >>>> Kashmir)? > > >>>> _________________________________________ > > >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > >>>> Critiques & Collaborations > > >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > >>>> with > > >>>> subscribe in the subject header. > > >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >>>> List archive: > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. > > >>>> Check out > > >>>> Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ > > >>>> _________________________________________ > > >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > >>>> Critiques & Collaborations > > >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > >>>> with > > >>>> subscribe in the subject header. > > >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >>>> List archive: > > >>> _________________________________________ > > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > >>> Critiques & Collaborations > > >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > >>> with subscribe in the subject > > >>> header. > > >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >> > > >> > > >> _________________________________________ > > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > >> Critiques & Collaborations > > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > >> with subscribe in the subject > > >> header. > > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > > > Raqs Media Collective > > > shuddha at sarai.net > > > www.sarai.net > > > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 14:16:22 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 14:16:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908010135r50ecaef9ifb34f67acff844de@mail.gmail.com> References: <133266.60611.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4eab87870907302235x3f4643dfr10c7ef2065f8db7d@mail.gmail.com> <4A72912F.1010808@gmail.com> <4A738F3F.8070002@gmail.com> <5bedab660907312145q7abfd694h8f2820ca794a277f@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908010135r50ecaef9ifb34f67acff844de@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908010146x2d52fc98l519a0ae2638320ae@mail.gmail.com> Meera ji, it is very absurd when one reads a few isolated cases of human wrongs by defence forces and glorification of axadi and jihasi activists as we have to understand that defence forces are not for law and order of any state, but for defending nation against aggression, and when they are used to law and order issues and to fight deviant civilians who are criminals, how can they verify about enemies of the nation against who they have to fight and others who have to be defended by them.? Armed forces are also made of humans from the same society that we live in, a soldier misbehaving with lady in Assam is taken care by rule of laws, a court martial, possible termination, but what happens to the axadi rascal who kills innocents with the help of "leaders" like mufti and mehbooba who lead violent protests and stone throwing, what should police do to such goon behaviour of elected persons.?.? After even sixty two years why are the persons and families forcibly evicted from their homes not settled back in their own homes in a federal state,.and tv channels making a big issue of a deviant party hopper actor and his late night parties not getting residence in any decent housing society.? On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 2:05 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > Sir, Why are you so concerned about a Roy and Setalwad, they are capable > of not only taking care of themselves and in addition they are capable of > being "independent" and "free"as they claim.! > > Regards, > > Rajen. > > > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 10:15 AM, Pheeta Ram wrote: > >> Don't worry guys, fingers that hit the keyboard can't pick a sword. >> Moreover, if we have a look at the discourses in the public sphere there >> hardly exists anything that would incite or lead to violence >> against these people. These celebrity intellectuals and activists are >> there >> for a purpose that serves >> the strategic operations of both the sides, if there are two sides. Just >> think of it, has anybody ever hurt >> Naom Chomsky? The fanatics have learnt from past mistakes. They know that >> certain people become >> everthemore dangerous after they are dead. Our society is already very >> very >> short of Heroes and role models >> .Morevoer, these activists have never been of any harm to anybody.Their >> parallel economies run on a studied >> stance: just don't go off the edge. This will take care of their ratings >> and >> save their skins too, ek khareedo to doosra muft! >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 6:11 AM, Tapas Ray wrote: >> >> > Shuddha, >> > >> > Certainly. But the statement has ramifications far beyond the list. The >> > least that should be done, I think, is to alert Roy and Setalvad. >> > Although it may not trigger actual physical violence (as Sanjay thinks), >> > it may. One never knows. >> > >> > Tapas >> > >> > >> > Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: >> > > Dear Tapas, >> > > >> > > This statement, below >> > > >> > >>> who so ever talks against india - kill him or her >> > >>> wipe out all antinational elements (including people like arundhati >> > >>> roy and >> > >>> tista settlewad) >> > > >> > > Is clearly an incitement to violence. And I think that the list, and >> the >> > > moderator, would do well to consider whether the person who has >> > > contributed this sentiment, in view of our previous discussions on a >> > > code of conduct for this list, should be allowed to stay on as a >> member. >> > > >> > > best >> > > >> > > Shuddha >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On 31-Jul-09, at 12:07 PM, Tapas Ray wrote: >> > > >> > >> I wonder if this kind of statement in a public or semi-public forum >> like >> > >> Sarai might appear as an incitement to violence in the eyes of the >> law. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Murali V wrote: >> > >>> Vedavati, >> > >>> How right you are. >> > >>> V Murali >> > >>> >> > >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Vedavati Jogi >> > >>> >wrote: >> > >>> >> > >>>> pawan, >> > >>>> before organizing attack on any mosque in 'indian occupied kashmir' >> > >>>> i suggest, you please throw these sickulars out of this country . >> > >>>> they are the main culprits >> > >>>> >> > >>>> call jagmohan to govern the j & k, >> > >>>> give the military free hand >> > >>>> abrogate 370 >> > >>>> who so ever talks against india - kill him or her >> > >>>> wipe out all antinational elements (including people like arundhati >> > >>>> roy and >> > >>>> tista settlewad) >> > >>>> >> > >>>> problem will be solved in no time. >> > >>>> >> > >>>> vedavati >> > >>>> --- On Fri, 31/7/09, Rakesh Iyer > > >>>> > wrote: >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> From: Rakesh Iyer > > >>>> > >> > >>>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur >> > >>>> To: "Murali V" > > >>>> > >> > >>>> Cc: "reader-list" > > reader-list at sarai.net>> >> > >>>> Date: Friday, 31 July, 2009, 1:22 AM >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> So Pawan ji, when are you planning to organize attacks on some >> mosques >> > >>>> across the country? Or will you limit yourself to IOK >> (Indian-occupied >> > >>>> Kashmir)? >> > >>>> _________________________________________ >> > >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >> > >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > >>>> with >> > >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >> > >>>> To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > >>>> List archive: >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. >> > >>>> Check out >> > >>>> Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ >> > >>>> _________________________________________ >> > >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >> > >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > >>>> with >> > >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >> > >>>> To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > >>>> List archive: >> > >>> _________________________________________ >> > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > >>> Critiques & Collaborations >> > >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > >>> with subscribe in the >> subject >> > >>> header. >> > >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> _________________________________________ >> > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > >> Critiques & Collaborations >> > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > >> with subscribe in the subject >> > >> header. >> > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > >> > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> > > The Sarai Programme at CSDS >> > > Raqs Media Collective >> > > shuddha at sarai.net >> > > www.sarai.net >> > > www.raqsmediacollective.net >> > > >> > > >> > >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > Rajen. > > -- Rajen. From pheeta.ram at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 15:19:40 2009 From: pheeta.ram at gmail.com (Pheeta Ram) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 15:19:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? In-Reply-To: <4eab87870907312342g6c432bf2j1c975a78a8af9085@mail.gmail.com> References: <5bedab660907311405v3c53908h68b0217e7f0d5c0e@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907312054r287b2090m6d4fb35c07ca6813@mail.gmail.com> <5bedab660907312230k2a662163t6c56d217adc770da@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907312342g6c432bf2j1c975a78a8af9085@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5bedab660908010249q183e35e8j4746f4f8659eedd0@mail.gmail.com> Let's work for a better world dear Murali. We don't seem to have enough time. Let's rush. On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Murali V wrote: > If some thing has made you laugh and feel happy, I am happy. That is my way > of living. > > Regards, > V Murali > > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 11:00 AM, Pheeta Ram wrote: > >> "You make me laugh Murali," says Jahanvi. There is a bit of childish >> rashness and irreverant matter-of-factness ( though >> totally misplaced) the way you make an offer. The options are not >> available like some commodity in our nearest shop, or Mall >> if you will. There are many such experiments that are going on all over >> the world. People have also set up "gated communities" and profess to be >> citizens of another world that belongs to another day. Can you suggest me a >> list of communities in India itself that are experimenting the way i have >> suggested? What i would venture to suggest to you "personally" is to find >> out the reasons why such communities are still segregated and away from the >> public knowledge. Are they really communities that profess no faith, and if >> they do not, what is the nature of their faith in the first place. We are >> fortunate enough that people in so large a number are gracing this >> discussion forum; one rarely gets such dedicated readers who also spend time >> responding to fanatical proposals (and run for alarm at the slightest >> provocation). >> >> With faith and religion are attached many other issues that have already >> been debated in hallowed intellectual circles but their conclusions have not >> been able to percolate down to the masses like us. The problems are as much >> psychological as they are cultural. Take for example today's kewl college >> going brats. They wear Che Guevara T-shrits and claim to belonging to no >> religion live and act like hippies of 70s though fall far short of that >> because of reasons too obvious to merit a mention. Now one might ask is this >> the kind of "thing" that i am proposing. Certainly NOT! These guys don't >> even know who Che was, somebody would as well tell you that he was a Harlem >> pop star of the 60s or 20s if you will or just a "pop star." Moreover, they >> would shoot a nearest temple at the first instance, whether for the sake of >> girls or to crack an entrance test. I was shocked to see many kewl guys >> fitted in branded jeans chanting Hanuman Chalisa when i dragged myself out >> of curiosity to a temple in Delhi. >> >> Things run deep under kewl T-shirts! >> We need to understand many such paradoxical webs, not individually >> but "communally" through such a forum. >> Best >> >> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Murali V wrote: >> >>> What you propose is already available in a faith called "Way of Living". >>> One has to attempt this philosophy and things would be for the good. >>> Murali V >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 2:35 AM, Pheeta Ram wrote: >>> >>>> Dear All, >>>> I know this won't go down well with most of you but here it is: >>>> Religions are the basic source of strife and as long as there will be >>>> religions >>>> (belief in this God and that) there will be such hostilities. By >>>> professing >>>> one religion >>>> i simultaneously create an other being who, by inference, is either >>>> follower >>>> of some religion >>>> or a pagan. The basic contradiction in all religions is that despite >>>> their >>>> moral-ethical discourse >>>> regarding oneness of all humanity they are the principal segregators. >>>> All >>>> the saints who have >>>> walked the earth deluded themselves with such fancies. >>>> >>>> Religion is not just a system of belief but also an economy. We depend a >>>> lot >>>> upon our religious capital >>>> for our subsistance. A person who professes to be a member of certain >>>> community (primarily religious) >>>> also depends upon it as a kind of umbilical cord and draws sucour. >>>> >>>> By now earth has soaked so much blood because of religious strifes that >>>> sometimes i wonder isn't it time >>>> to abandon all religious badges and create a ethical moral code drawn >>>> from >>>> all the religions and start believing >>>> in one community: that is Human. >>>> >>>> I think we need to believe in our brother next door and one walking on >>>> the >>>> street or the worker on a Metro site. >>>> We need to believe that for the survival of humanity we need to believe >>>> in >>>> each other and not on some transcendental >>>> agency. I wonder why we haven't learnt from our history. The primary >>>> reason >>>> why we have failed terribly in creating a >>>> community of all human beings that walk the earth is because we are >>>> afraid. >>>> Afraid to believe in somebody who is in >>>> front of us in flesh and blood. I remember a man sitting in Blue Line >>>> who >>>> was highly uncomfortable when a profusely sweating migrant labourer got >>>> in >>>> and found a seat, to his great relief, by his side. It is certain that >>>> he >>>> didn't know of the >>>> religion of that worker but the stench of his sweat and his dirty >>>> clothes >>>> were enough for him to get up and keep standing >>>> for the rest of his journey. I wonder when we have such intolerence for >>>> a >>>> 'fellow' human beings' honest sweat how would we >>>> ever begin even thinking about such a Human community. The perils that >>>> face >>>> the earth now are reasons enough that we >>>> start believing in each other and work for the future of humanity by >>>> shunning all our sectarian tags. But strangely we are busy >>>> inventing/refurbishing new messiah who would deliver us from the mess >>>> that >>>> we have ourselves created on this earth. >>>> >>>> I wonder what stops us from creating a new religion of Humanity. >>>> >>>> The advice that comes from scholarly circles regarding all this >>>> religious >>>> intolerance is : Tolerance! >>>> That we need to tolerate each other. Tolerance is another form of >>>> fascism or >>>> nazism, what ever. I won't agree with substituting >>>> the word toleracne with "respect" or "compassion". Why tolerate the very >>>> root of strife in the first place. >>>> >>>> And yet, sadly, things are not as simple as that. But a time comes when >>>> we >>>> have to call a spade a spade. >>>> We have to shun God to love human beings. There is no other way. Just >>>> visualize the situation: Two guys are standing in a big stadium in front >>>> of >>>> each other, just a metre apart but with their faces 'heaven'wards. Why >>>> are >>>> they afraid to see each other directly. >>>> Why does the need arise to travel so many light years and then come to >>>> ones >>>> brother standing just a meter away. >>>> >>>> I know it is plain foolishness to ask somebody whose bread and butter >>>> depends upon religion to shun it and enter the fold of Humanity where >>>> people >>>> believe in people and work with mutual responsibility. But we >>>> need neo-believers who are foolish enough to >>>> believe in such a possibility and are ready to work for it. It's a >>>> long revolution but a possible one. >>>> >>>> But, the roadblocks are mighty hard to surpass. Take for instance my >>>> case: >>>> I have a primary school in my neighbourhood, a government one. And >>>> every morning even before i have got up their assembly begins and the >>>> chants >>>> of sacred Hindu mantras begin. All this atma and parmatma stuff. Though >>>> i >>>> don't dispute the sense inherent in the prayer yet aren't we or rather >>>> the >>>> supposedly and proffessedly secular government entering into the >>>> business >>>> of 'mass conversion'. When i have all these religious prayers embedded >>>> into >>>> my consciousness right from my childhood can you imagine how much i >>>> would >>>> have to suffer to convert back to the religion of humanity if i convert >>>> at >>>> all and not turn into some religious fanatic. Less said of the schools >>>> run >>>> by one religion or the other the better. >>>> >>>> Though the proposal seems indecent yet i think there are madmen enough >>>> to >>>> believe in this long long revolution. >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> >> > From pheeta.rahim at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 15:32:27 2009 From: pheeta.rahim at gmail.com (Pheeta Rahim) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 15:32:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? Message-ID: <6ed1f1c50908010302g433b6eb2ieef25c9b00dec592@mail.gmail.com> a good question by my brother . From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 15:37:16 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 15:37:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908010146x2d52fc98l519a0ae2638320ae@mail.gmail.com> References: <133266.60611.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4eab87870907302235x3f4643dfr10c7ef2065f8db7d@mail.gmail.com> <4A72912F.1010808@gmail.com> <4A738F3F.8070002@gmail.com> <5bedab660907312145q7abfd694h8f2820ca794a277f@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908010135r50ecaef9ifb34f67acff844de@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908010146x2d52fc98l519a0ae2638320ae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear all I am putting forth one simple point which was told to me by Aashish Gupta, one of the members of this forum (he doesn't post, but he reads certainly all articles and being my friend, I discuss a lot with him on such issues. Plus of course, he was involved for some time with the 'Right to Food' campaign). These are his views, as per my memory, and I restate them below. " If the Army or any paramilitary forces indulge in any kind of rape or molestation, it is despicable. And since the authorities in Kashmir have refused to touch the paramilitary forces or the armed forces in such incidents, over a period of time, the local people there have come to understand that simple protests against rapes will not help, and therefore have come up to the strategic solution of fighting for azadi side-by-side with the demand of punishment against those who rape. In their view, the demand for azadi may force the administration to touch the soldiers who commit such excesses and punish them. Therefore, it's a strategic move for them, with a view to ensure justice. The fact that things have had to come up to this point therefore, is the responsibility of the Indian state. If it would have taken action earlier, things would not have come to such a passe. In the case of the Hizbul Mujahideen attack, just because people don't venture out on the streets to protest against the Hizbul, doesn't mean that they support it. This is a very wrong view. Just because some gundas come in our locality and collect 'haftas', and we don't protest them, would not mean we support their activity. It simply means we fear them. Similarly, there is a strong possibility that Kashmiris fear the Hizbul and hence don't protest against them. Some members of this forum have forgotten that any attack by the Hizbul also shows the lack of preparation from the Indian state to protect its' citizens (since Kashmiris are Indian citizens also because India lays claim to the whole state of Jammu & Kashmir). Therefore, when the Hizbul Mujahideen is able to carry out attacks in Kashmir or elsewhere, it's a failure of the Indian state to protect its' citizens, and it's a bigger failure if investigations are not carried out properly in such cases. What's more, in the case of the Hizbul, the Hizbul is a 'banned' organization, banned by the state. The Indian state has declared Hizbul as an 'illegitimate' or illegal organization thereby, and therefore, any atrocity committed by it has to be looked into by the state, which takes upon itself the responsibility of protecting Indian citizens. On the other hand, the Indian state is a legitimate or legal entity, and therefore when an arm of the state (such as the bureaucracy, the Indian army, the paramilitary forces, or any other arm), indulges in perpetration of violation of human rights in any form (be it rape, violence or any other way), nobody is going to take action in that case if the state justifies it. Therefore, the protests of Kashmiris against the armed forces is justified on the grounds that they are forcing the state to stop this violence and violation of human rights, although using the weapon of 'azadi', so that possibly such violence can stop over a period of time and things improve in the Valley. And the state is thereby being asked to change its' functioning. Hence, when the Hizbul attacks a house and rapes a woman or commits any crime, it's condemnable but more so, it's also a failure of the Indian state as well, and therefore both deserve to be condemned in such a case, because the Indian state fails from discharging its responsibilities towards its' citizens. And if the state doesn't feel that Kashmiris are Indian citizens, why not give independence to Kashmir? " Regards Rakesh From rana at ranadasgupta.com Sat Aug 1 15:40:45 2009 From: rana at ranadasgupta.com (Rana Dasgupta) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 15:40:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] On Delhi In-Reply-To: <1CCDDA48-3D24-4128-8A09-431915B2B710@sarai.net> References: <4A6FFCEF.90205@ranadasgupta.com> <3ef603b70907290338n186e9077iae894bf724fed429@mail.gmail.com> <564b2fca0907290451r37bfc21dqa95101e0d65677a3@mail.gmail.com> <4A718DCE.2010809@ranadasgupta.com> <1CCDDA48-3D24-4128-8A09-431915B2B710@sarai.net> Message-ID: <4A7414A5.8090504@ranadasgupta.com> You are right: my use of "Socialist" in the essay was essentially the same as that in mainstream contemporary parlance - in newspapers, for instance - where the word is used to characterise a period of centralised planning (and to make the contrast with the "liberalised" India of post-1993). Nevertheless there was indeed sharp irony - as you suggest, Shuddha ("The only way, to my mind, to echo these pretences today, is by way of some sharp irony") - about the way the word was used in this piece. For those attuned to irony, phrases such as "the Socialist elite" or "the Socialist ruling class" must surely seem a trifle wry. But my essay is not the issue here. The question you are raising is larger: do we accept the meanings of mainstream speech, and use them to our own purposes, or do we reject mainstream speech as a deception, a lapsed form ("ill-educated and foolish"), and insist on purer meanings of our own? In the particular case at hand, do we ignore the immense degradations that the word "Socialism" has gone through in the last century, say that none of these things was in fact "Socialism" - and claim that "Socialism" continues to refer to something else? Or do we accept the weight of those degradations, allow that the word can never be restored to its pristine origins, and reconcile ourselves to new usages - and perhaps the necessity of coinage? There is no single answer to this question. Sometimes it is useful to accept the shorthands of mainstream speech. Sometimes it is important to use a word strategically in a restored context. Though you say "even if we were to consider the 'nationalization' of industries and enterprises, and the adoption of centralized planning as 'Socialist' measures (which I certainly do not)" there are many who would see this as the defining feature of Socialism - including, since you bring it up, the British Labour Party, which was said to have left behind its Socialist origins when it deleted Clause 4 - the commitment to nationalisation of industries - from its constitution. As far as the list of would-be "Socialist" leaders that you give is concerned, it is pretty clear that state control of a capitalist economy was what was in the minds of many of them when they espoused the word. Personally I think this meaning is too well-entrenched for us to claim it is only "fools" who would use it. Even if you were to agree with that, it would by no means be the end of all the questions, however. The real question is the future of all the ideas that have historically operated under the word "Socialism" - which do not require this word in order to retain their force. As you say, eloquently: a state is not a social formation. R Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear Rana, (and Naga) > > Thanks for the discussion. > > Just a note of caution, in which I would agree with Naga's comments on > your usage of the term 'Socialist' which I think mars an otherwise > very well argued and etched out piece. > > Various political figures, ranging from Mussolini, to Hitler, to Nye > Bevan, to Stalin, to Pilsudski, to Indira Gandhi, to Atal Behari > Vajpayee, to Chiang Kai Shek and Idi Amin described (at some time or > the other, or throughout their political careers) their politics as > 'socialist' and their parties/movements as 'Socialist'. Others, such > as The only way, to my mind, to echo these pretences today, is by way > of some sharp irony. > > It is true, that Nehru (and some of his other colleagues) did propose > the goal of moving 'towards Socialism' to the Congress Party. And the > word 'Socialist' was inserted into the Indian constitution during the > darkest days of the Emergency as a fig leaf to cover the reality of > repression. > > But the policies adopted by Nehru's government, and his immediate > successors, (right up to Indira Gandhi) even if we were to consider > the 'nationalization' of industries and enterprises, and the adoption > of centralized planning as 'Socialist' measures (which I certainly do > not), were arguably less far-reaching than even the policies followed > by the post war Labour government in the UK. > > No one, as far as I know, describes the United Kingdom under Clement > Atlee as a 'Socialist' society. It would be difficult to reconcile the > depth of the British class system's bite in the 1950s with any thing > even remotely approximating 'Socialism'. One of the founding documents > of the British Labour Party - the resolution adopted by the Labour > Representation Committee of 1905 (moved by W. Atkinson of the > Paperstainers Union, and seconded by Will Thorne, of the Gasworkers > Union, which stayed on the Labour Party's books until its quiet, and > embarrassed removal, in the 80s) commits the emergent Labour Party to > the goal of > > 'This annual conference of the LRC hereby declares that its ultimate > object shall be the obtaining for the workers of the full results of > their labour by the overthrow of the present competitive system of > capitalism and the institution of a system of public ownership of all > the means of production, distribution and exchange.' > > Despite this, it would be hard to call the Liberal-Labour Governments > of Ramsay Macdonald, or of Bevan and Atlee, right on to the 'New > Labour' of Tony Blair or Gordon Brown - as anything even remotely > resembling Socialism. And yet, Post War Britain, had more extensive > measures taken for state control of key industries than India ever had. > > If that be the case, how could we (by the same yardstick) describe > India as 'Socialist'. Is it just that we are (or have become) more > accustomed to identify Capitalism with affluence, and hence, the > seemingly 'affluent' reality of the UK seems more persuasively > 'Capitalist' than other realities, elsewhere, such as in India. Hence, > newspaper editors in the Indian English Press routinely call the > state-capitalist measures taken by Nehru and Indira Gandhi, > 'Socialist'. I can forgive Indian English Newspaper editors, because > they (by and large) tend to be ill-educated and foolish, but I expect > better from you. > > Finally, is it at all necessary to ascribe to nation states, > qualifiers that are more appropriate when speaking of social > formations? A nation state is not a social formation. Those who > thought so, and tried to carry their thought into practice, ended up > leaving us with two of the twentieth century's greatest tragedies - > 'Socialism in One Country' (Stalinism) and 'National Socialism' (Nazism). > > I think that the current loose way in which the term 'socialist' is > bandied about in the media, and in fulsome political rhetoric, both > here, as well as elsewhere, might have, unconcsiously seeped into your > writing in this article. I think that for a person of your acuity, it > would be best to be on guard, in the future. > > an eager reader of your writing, > > Shuddha > > > On 30-Jul-09, at 5:40 PM, Rana Dasgupta wrote: > >> Thank you for good thoughts, Naga: all the things you list are, of >> course, deeply relevant - and many more. In retrospect the "land" >> section could probably have had more bite. I did hope the Nanda >> incident, as well as the Ethiopian land acquisition, would give a sense >> of the impact - literal and figurative - between this emerging class of >> global capitalists and farmers and workers. >> >> On socialism: though I agree that such shorthands are never satisfying >> to categorise a whole era and system - who has a monopoly on the meaning >> of the word? Nehru called the society he built a "socialist" society, >> and the India of that era had in place many of the features - eg >> centralised production - that characterise other nations that call >> themselves "socialist". The meaning that the word thus acquires is >> surely real...? >> >> Thanks again >> >> R >> >> >> >> Nagraj Adve wrote: >>> Very nice piece Rana, thanks. I sometimes have this unspoken and >>> somewhat sinking feeling when I think of this segment of the >>> capitalist class your piece discusses. Fear may seem a strong word but >>> I can't think of any other to describe the emotion. As activists in >>> this city for some years now, I don't think we even grapple with the >>> realities of this class; perhaps those who are trade unionists do. >>> >>> Just some specific reactions to parts of the piece, reactions that are >>> disjointed. I liked the bits with the therapist Anurag Mishra, an >>> interesting angle. And also MC at the end of the piece. And Tarun >>> Tejpal's comments sadly are not too bleak, though there's also a >>> growing resistance to the intensifying rape of resources. >>> >>> Couple of observations: The absence of any line or comment on the >>> working poor of this city - women working as domestic help and >>> increasingly as construction labour who build the stuff that DLF makes >>> its money from; factory workers; adivasi migrants who leave their own >>> homes and communities to work in the homes of the rich here - was >>> striking. I do realize that the piece was about the very rich, but as >>> EP Thompson said in his famous intro to 'The Making ...", you can't >>> have the one without the other. Also, a mention of the destruction of >>> jhuggis in 1996 and 2001 (30,000 homes along the Yamuna Pushta) would >>> have been relevant. And also the closure of industries that happened >>> at the time. Or the decline in real wages. >>> >>> Finally, in passing: you refer about half a dozen times to India as >>> being 'socialist' in earlier decades. It has never been even remotely >>> so, not for a single day. Gunnar Mrydal had some blunt stuff to say >>> about that during a visit to Delhi in 1958. >>> >>> Thanks for the piece. >>> warmly, >>> Naga >>> >>> >>> On 29/07/2009, *Sudeshna Chatterjee* >> >>> > wrote: >>> >>> Its a really good read! Highly recommended. >>> >>> Sudeshna >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Rana Dasgupta >>> >wrote: >>> >>>> My recent essay about Delhi, and the culture of its new rich, >>> from the >>>> current edition of Granta magazine. >>>> >>>> http://www.ranadasgupta.com/texts.asp?text_id=47 >>>> >>>> Enjoy! >>>> >>>> R >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>>> >>> with >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sudeshna Chatterjee, PhD >>> New Delhi, India >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>> >>> with subscribe in the >>> subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> "I'm an ex-citizen of nowhere. And sometimes I get mighty homesick." >> >> Rana Dasgupta >> www.ranadasgupta.com >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> with subscribe in the subject >> header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > -- "I'm an ex-citizen of nowhere. And sometimes I get mighty homesick." Rana Dasgupta www.ranadasgupta.com From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 1 15:47:45 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 03:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? In-Reply-To: <5bedab660907311405v3c53908h68b0217e7f0d5c0e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <722792.46894.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Ram! Ram! Pheeta Ram Ji   You wrote:   "I was shocked to see many kewl guys fitted in branded jeans chanting Hanuman Chalisa when i dragged myself out of curiosity to a temple in Delhi."   Could you please elaborate on why you were "shocked"?   Kshmendra   --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Pheeta Ram wrote: From: Pheeta Ram Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? To: reader-list at sarai.net Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 2:35 AM Dear All, I know this won't go down well with most of you but here it is: Religions are the basic source of strife and as long as there will be religions (belief in this God and that) there will be such hostilities. By professing one religion i simultaneously create an other being who, by inference, is either follower of some religion or a pagan. The basic contradiction in all religions is that despite their moral-ethical discourse regarding oneness of all humanity they are the principal segregators. All the saints who have walked the earth deluded themselves with such fancies. Religion is not just a system of belief but also an economy. We depend a lot upon our religious capital for our subsistance. A person who professes to be a member of certain community (primarily religious) also depends upon it as a kind of umbilical cord and draws sucour. By now earth has soaked so much blood because of religious strifes that sometimes i wonder isn't it time to abandon all religious badges and create a ethical moral code drawn from all the religions and start believing in one community: that is Human. I think we need to believe in our brother next door and one walking on the street or the worker on a Metro site. We need to believe that for the survival of humanity we need to believe in each other and not on some transcendental agency. I wonder why we haven't learnt from our history. The primary reason why we have failed terribly in creating a community of all human beings that walk the earth is because we are afraid. Afraid to believe in somebody who is in front of us in flesh and blood. I remember a man sitting in Blue Line who was highly uncomfortable when a profusely sweating migrant labourer got in and found a seat, to his great relief, by his side. It is certain that he didn't know of the religion of that worker but the stench of his sweat and his dirty clothes were enough for him to get up and keep standing for the rest of his journey. I wonder when we have such intolerence for a 'fellow' human beings' honest sweat how would we ever begin even thinking about such a Human community. The perils that face the earth now are reasons enough that we start believing in each other and work for the future of humanity by shunning all our sectarian tags. But strangely we are busy inventing/refurbishing new messiah who would deliver us from the mess that we have ourselves created on this earth. I wonder what stops us from creating a new religion of Humanity. The advice that comes from scholarly circles regarding all this religious intolerance is : Tolerance! That we need to tolerate each other. Tolerance is another form of fascism or nazism, what ever. I won't agree with substituting the word toleracne with "respect" or "compassion". Why tolerate the very root of strife in the first place. And yet, sadly, things are not as simple as that. But  a time comes when we have to call a spade a spade. We have to shun God to love human beings. There is no other way. Just visualize the situation: Two guys are standing in a big stadium in front of each other, just a metre apart but with their faces 'heaven'wards. Why are they afraid to see each other directly. Why does the need arise to travel so many light years and then come to ones brother standing just a meter away. I know it is plain foolishness to ask somebody whose bread and butter depends upon religion to shun it and enter the fold of Humanity where people believe in people and work with mutual responsibility. But we need neo-believers who are foolish enough to believe in such a possibility and are ready to work for it. It's a long revolution but a possible one. But, the roadblocks are mighty hard to surpass. Take for instance my case: I have a primary school in my neighbourhood, a government one. And every morning even before i have got up their assembly begins and the chants of sacred Hindu mantras begin. All this atma and parmatma stuff. Though i don't dispute the sense inherent in the prayer yet aren't we or rather the supposedly and proffessedly secular government entering into the business of 'mass conversion'. When i have all these religious prayers embedded into my consciousness right from my childhood can you imagine how much i would have to suffer to convert back to the religion of humanity if i convert at all and not turn into some religious fanatic. Less said of the schools run by one religion or the other the better. Though the proposal seems indecent yet i think there are madmen enough to believe in this long long revolution. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rana at ranadasgupta.com Sat Aug 1 15:50:08 2009 From: rana at ranadasgupta.com (Rana Dasgupta) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 15:50:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] On Delhi In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40907300837o7c532fadx92608edbc143d2a2@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A6FFCEF.90205@ranadasgupta.com> <3ef603b70907290338n186e9077iae894bf724fed429@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40907290441t50fcf5aan650d4f5f76494293@mail.gmail.com> <4A7194A8.70200@ranadasgupta.com> <65be9bf40907300837o7c532fadx92608edbc143d2a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A7416D8.9070501@ranadasgupta.com> Hello Taha I don't really know why you're continuing to argue this point - that real estate is going down. As even the original text makes clear, the real-estate barons of the 90s and early 00s are moving out of real estate into other industries with different cycles (in MC's case: food). As I said before, these are businessmen, and their whole energy is devoted to assessing the risks and returns attached to possible investments. If you are able to look at the Indian real estate market now and see that future gains will be under pressure, don't you think they must have realised this long ago? R Taha Mehmood wrote: > Dear Rana, > > Sure! As of now I do agree that people like KP of the DLF or MC for > that matter are walking on an astral plane however if we were to allow > ourselves to recede from the infectiously tactile world of real > estate, to recede to rather cold confines of common sense garnered > from years of analyzing hard data then maybe we could acknowledge that > even real estate for whatever it is worth, is a business at the end of > the day. And it also has its cycles. > > In cities like London for instance there are structures like Canary > Wharf. Some would argue Canary Wharf as being the first world > equivalent of hyper real office/shopping complexes as those built by > MC's and KP's of Delhi. However, the real profit was not harvested by > people who built these structures. The real profit, in terms of mind > boggling return on investment went to companies who bought those > companies who built these structures in the first place. The original > builders were hyped for a decade or so and then subsequently went > bust. Because it could not sustain a balance between real demand and > expected/projected demand. > > The real estate story in Delhi, it seems, is following a similar path. > The original ground work which needed a lot of weeding out and a lot > of smoothening of processes was done by local players. Now I think the > field is slowly becoming 'flat' for bigger players to move in. > > I, for one, will not be surprised to see that the demographics of > real estate players going in for a major over haul in a few years time > provided there is enough legislation to back the new entrants. We know > that major architectural consultancies like Arup and Laing O' Rourke > have already started looking at India in a big way. Even Emaar people > are entering the country. Therefore I would like to think that there's > going to be a lot of turf war amongst these players. In such an event, > which is highly likely, would you really bet on people like MC's > chasing their imperial dreams, when their own little fiefs are going > to be under some pressure to share the pie? > > Warm regards > > Taha > > > -- "I'm an ex-citizen of nowhere. And sometimes I get mighty homesick." Rana Dasgupta www.ranadasgupta.com From meera.rizvi at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 15:52:37 2009 From: meera.rizvi at gmail.com (Meera Rizvi) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 15:52:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908010146x2d52fc98l519a0ae2638320ae@mail.gmail.com> References: <133266.60611.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4eab87870907302235x3f4643dfr10c7ef2065f8db7d@mail.gmail.com> <4A72912F.1010808@gmail.com> <4A738F3F.8070002@gmail.com> <5bedab660907312145q7abfd694h8f2820ca794a277f@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908010135r50ecaef9ifb34f67acff844de@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908010146x2d52fc98l519a0ae2638320ae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2ec0b0550908010322u17330d1as98fedc9815efad99@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rajendra, You said: 'we have to understand that defence forces are not for law and order of any state, but for defending nation against aggression, and when they are used to law and order issues and to fight deviant civilians who are criminals, how can they verify about enemies of the nation against who they have to fight and others who have to be defended by them.? I totally agree. I believe that the majority of our armed forces are decent people who have been handed a thankless task. But the question is, who deployed them in Kashmir? What was the rationale behind shooting on peaceful (or atleast unarmed) people protesting? Repression and violation of human rights can only lead to fear and anger and create many more terrorists. Therefore, before we even begin to dram of a Kashmir intgrated with the Indian nation - the armed forces have to become protectors of Kashmiri people. They must be deployed to guard borders, not govern civilians. Regards, Meera On 8/1/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi wrote: > > Meera ji, > it is very absurd when one reads a few isolated cases of human wrongs by > defence forces and glorification of axadi and jihasi activists as we have > to > understand that defence forces are not for law and order of any state, but > for defending nation against aggression, and when they are used to law and > order issues and to fight deviant civilians who are criminals, how can they > verify about enemies of the nation against who they have to fight and > others > who have to be defended by them.? > > Armed forces are also made of humans from the same society that we live in, > a soldier misbehaving with lady in Assam is taken care by rule of laws, a > court martial, possible termination, but what happens to the axadi rascal > who kills innocents with the help of "leaders" like mufti and mehbooba who > lead violent protests and stone throwing, what should police do to such > goon > behaviour of elected persons.?.? > > After even sixty two years why are the persons and families forcibly > evicted > from their homes not settled back in their own homes in a federal > state,.and > tv channels making a big issue of a deviant party hopper actor and his > late > night parties not getting residence in any decent housing society.? > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 2:05 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < > rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > > > Sir, Why are you so concerned about a Roy and Setalwad, they are > capable > > of not only taking care of themselves and in addition they are capable of > > being "independent" and "free"as they claim.! > > > > Regards, > > > > Rajen. > > > > > > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 10:15 AM, Pheeta Ram > wrote: > > > >> Don't worry guys, fingers that hit the keyboard can't pick a sword. > >> Moreover, if we have a look at the discourses in the public sphere > there > >> hardly exists anything that would incite or lead to violence > >> against these people. These celebrity intellectuals and activists are > >> there > >> for a purpose that serves > >> the strategic operations of both the sides, if there are two sides. Just > >> think of it, has anybody ever hurt > >> Naom Chomsky? The fanatics have learnt from past mistakes. They know > that > >> certain people become > >> everthemore dangerous after they are dead. Our society is already very > >> very > >> short of Heroes and role models > >> .Morevoer, these activists have never been of any harm to anybody.Their > >> parallel economies run on a studied > >> stance: just don't go off the edge. This will take care of their ratings > >> and > >> save their skins too, ek khareedo to doosra muft! > >> > >> > >> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 6:11 AM, Tapas Ray wrote: > >> > >> > Shuddha, > >> > > >> > Certainly. But the statement has ramifications far beyond the list. > The > >> > least that should be done, I think, is to alert Roy and Setalvad. > >> > Although it may not trigger actual physical violence (as Sanjay > thinks), > >> > it may. One never knows. > >> > > >> > Tapas > >> > > >> > > >> > Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > >> > > Dear Tapas, > >> > > > >> > > This statement, below > >> > > > >> > >>> who so ever talks against india - kill him or her > >> > >>> wipe out all antinational elements (including people like > arundhati > >> > >>> roy and > >> > >>> tista settlewad) > >> > > > >> > > Is clearly an incitement to violence. And I think that the list, and > >> the > >> > > moderator, would do well to consider whether the person who has > >> > > contributed this sentiment, in view of our previous discussions on a > >> > > code of conduct for this list, should be allowed to stay on as a > >> member. > >> > > > >> > > best > >> > > > >> > > Shuddha > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > On 31-Jul-09, at 12:07 PM, Tapas Ray wrote: > >> > > > >> > >> I wonder if this kind of statement in a public or semi-public forum > >> like > >> > >> Sarai might appear as an incitement to violence in the eyes of the > >> law. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Murali V wrote: > >> > >>> Vedavati, > >> > >>> How right you are. > >> > >>> V Murali > >> > >>> > >> > >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Vedavati Jogi > >> > >>> >wrote: > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> pawan, > >> > >>>> before organizing attack on any mosque in 'indian occupied > kashmir' > >> > >>>> i suggest, you please throw these sickulars out of this country > . > >> > >>>> they are the main culprits > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> call jagmohan to govern the j & k, > >> > >>>> give the military free hand > >> > >>>> abrogate 370 > >> > >>>> who so ever talks against india - kill him or her > >> > >>>> wipe out all antinational elements (including people like > arundhati > >> > >>>> roy and > >> > >>>> tista settlewad) > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> problem will be solved in no time. > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> vedavati > >> > >>>> --- On Fri, 31/7/09, Rakesh Iyer >> > >>>> > wrote: > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> From: Rakesh Iyer >> > >>>> > > >> > >>>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur > >> > >>>> To: "Murali V" >> > >>>> > > >> > >>>> Cc: "reader-list" >> > reader-list at sarai.net>> > >> > >>>> Date: Friday, 31 July, 2009, 1:22 AM > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> So Pawan ji, when are you planning to organize attacks on some > >> mosques > >> > >>>> across the country? Or will you limit yourself to IOK > >> (Indian-occupied > >> > >>>> Kashmir)? > >> > >>>> _________________________________________ > >> > >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> > >>>> Critiques & Collaborations > >> > >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> > >>>> with > >> > >>>> subscribe in the subject header. > >> > >>>> To unsubscribe: > >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > >>>> List archive: > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. > >> > >>>> Check out > >> > >>>> Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ > >> > >>>> _________________________________________ > >> > >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> > >>>> Critiques & Collaborations > >> > >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> > >>>> with > >> > >>>> subscribe in the subject header. > >> > >>>> To unsubscribe: > >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > >>>> List archive: > >> > >>> _________________________________________ > >> > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> > >>> Critiques & Collaborations > >> > >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> > >>> with subscribe in the > >> subject > >> > >>> header. > >> > >>> To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _________________________________________ > >> > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> > >> with subscribe in the > subject > >> > >> header. > >> > >> To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > > > >> > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > >> > > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > >> > > Raqs Media Collective > >> > > shuddha at sarai.net > >> > > www.sarai.net > >> > > www.raqsmediacollective.net > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > _________________________________________ > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> > subscribe in the subject header. > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Rajen. > > > > > > > -- > Rajen. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Meera From c.anupam at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 16:05:36 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 16:05:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908010123j2d9da8f0r6db8de0d89736655@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00907310144vbcb4d37sf40d6bd434ffc18@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907310956n772d29acuf8ccda5710a3454f@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907311146o1cf1eecak514d76d9f18537e2@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907312133t6b3a595dg99d54e01c1b43ef1@mail.gmail.com> <5bedab660907312202k406da437kb96372366de2e8ae@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907312330h61e61fc5o398b0db4f0456b15@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907312349p16efe75fj5451a0a7cd81cc34@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907312351k36d2799cgadab849e114d4d1e@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00907312354p67cefe3awa924ee216b267ab4@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908010123j2d9da8f0r6db8de0d89736655@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00908010335p588bf527r428186b6fb887e69@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rajen, Can you explain what do you mean by "Why this double standards, if the thoughts are not liked or acceptable you have right to dissent, disagree, but you talk of swords and fights.!" When was I referring to swords? Why are you twisting things here? I had written: "I would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's an assurance to you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas here I will keep on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your claims. Take my word for that." Looks like you are not only confused but desperate to mislead others to believe your saffron propaganda. Enough of this sir. Please abnegate and analyse what you have been discussing so far. -anupam On 8/1/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi wrote: > > Dear Anupam, and all, > > are you not forwarding your sectarian agenda on to the list.? Why this > double standards, if the thoughts are not liked or acceptable you have right > to dissent, disagree, but you talk of swords and fights.! > > > In all my posts I have emphasized the humanitarian aspects of the society, > never hated the faith of any denomination, but positively disagreed with > fanatics of all faiths when they "impose" their faith in words and posts and > the actions, and as to naming, if you are keen, please note that the posts > regarding the national ids and their implementation is opposed with > arguments regarding funds, use of funds and all issues about tendering to > big companies etc, but the latent fear factor is oblivious, that the > activities , both good and illegal can be monitored, why not may i ask, for > the good of the society.?Why should any citizen be scared to be noted for > his activities if he is not in to mischief of sheltoring, helping and > providing logistic supports to anti national activities, for his fanatic > faith, for money and other inducements why not the citizens be protected > against such acts.?We have seen in the convicted accused of Mumbai blasts, > few customs officials who went for corruption facilitating landing of > explosives and arms.? Quite a few were involved because substantial amount > of money was paid, faith was only justification for the jihad.? Worst, when > the death fell on victims of the terror, the death and miseries did not > discriminate in delivery of misery , hurt, injuries and death on their faith > as all of different faith had to share this.! Kasab when shot in CST, the > first lot of five deaths were of a poor muslim family, in his jihad.! So > what is the sectarian point you are trying to make out of my posts, when i > seek my God in the good of all living beings, not in temples, mosques or > churches.? > > > As to damaged temples or any place of worship, and also the governance, > system of governance and political parties are not construction companies to > do that job, it is for the rule of laws to settle the matters pending in the > courts for decades, and the citizens to contribute and construct their place > of worship in good harmony with society.System of governance should not have > any "faith" in its governance of faiths be it wakf,or mujrai, leave it to > that faith to manage their affairs, like they have done for some faiths, > selectively. > .System of governance has no business to govern the faiths, but only > deliver good of democracy as per rule of laws, to each of its constituted > member - of all faiths, irrespective of his/her faith, caste, or gender > or clor of his / her skin. > > > Discrimination based on any of the above, favouring one group of > individuals on the basis of any of the above mentioned is bad governance, > which leads to frustration, to protests, some peaceful, some violent, thus > violence breeds further on itself. > > > Well, as you may have wrongly presumed, I do not beieve in violence or > sword, but self defence is another matter.For that strong mind, intellect is > enough to face the pen or sword, or both. > > > Regards, > Rajen. > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:24 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > >> Dear Murali, >> >> I never spoke about Gayatri Mantri or anything about it. Where does this >> come from sir? I think you must be mistaken. >> >> -Anupam >> >> >> On 8/1/09, Murali V wrote: >> > >> > That is because U had stated that Gayatri Mantra is of religious nature >> > which I had countered. >> > >> > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:19 PM, anupam chakravartty < >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: >> > >> >> Dear Murali, >> >> >> >> My issue here why are we discussng burqa clad women going to school on >> >> this >> >> reader's list sir. what difference did it make to your belief system or >> >> how >> >> did it threaten your existence? Also if chanting Gayatri mantra helps >> you >> >> to >> >> breathe better how or why does this reader's list has to bear the >> effects? >> >> >> >> -anupam >> >> >> >> On 8/1/09, Murali V wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Dear Anupam, >> >> > >> >> > Dear Anupam, >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > The issue of uniformity has still not been addressed. A burkha clad >> girl >> >> in >> >> > a school cannot be questioned and if done, the media and the entire >> >> > pseudo-seculars go all out to call it hindu fanaticism. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Atma or the soul, life after death and re-birth are concepts which is >> >> their >> >> > in most faiths. Moreover the Gaytri mantra is also a breathing >> exercise >> >> as >> >> > the stanzas repeated in its correct form has set timings to control >> >> breath. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Regards, >> >> > V Murali >> >> > >> >> > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Pheeta Ram >> >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> Dear Murali, >> >> >> Institutions run by religious sects would be like that only >> otherwise >> >> why >> >> >> would they set >> >> >> up schools in the name of their religions in the first place. Every >> >> >> religion has an agenda. >> >> >> More the followers more the currency. But what i am pointing towards >> is >> >> >> the fact that >> >> >> even a school run by a government, and just imagine how many schools >> >> are >> >> >> there all over >> >> >> India, indulges in practices, and "uniformly" so, which are nothing >> >> short >> >> >> of proselytisation. >> >> >> When my son is asked to chant a Hindu Gayatri Mantra, or prayers >> that >> >> talk >> >> >> of "Atma" and >> >> >> "Parmatma" isn't it silent conversion to Hindu faith by a government >> >> that >> >> >> needs to be neutral >> >> >> in terms of religion. >> >> >> >> >> >> When you level charges, let me tell you, "opposite is true too." So >> >> don't >> >> >> exert yourself so hard. >> >> >> Moreover, if i am discriminated against my religion that doesn't >> give >> >> me >> >> >> the right to read "fatwas" >> >> >> against people who "just" extend the boundaries of citizenship to >> our >> >> >> relief. I won't ask my little son >> >> >> to go and kill his classmates just because he is being asked to >> chant a >> >> >> "mantra" that he has come >> >> >> to believe he doesn't need to or is unjustified ( given my >> >> brainwashing) >> >> >> in the first place. He has the right >> >> >> to be nurtured in a world where he is not preordained into the >> >> watertight >> >> >> compartment of some religion. >> >> >> >> >> >> Things are not so simple and straightforward as you would have them >> to >> >> be. >> >> >> In a public discussion forum >> >> >> everybody needs to be patient and not panic just because some >> >> "fan-atic" >> >> >> has fanned an imaginary jingoitst >> >> >> or communal frenzy. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 10:03 AM, Murali V > >> >wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> Dear Anupam, >> >> >>> I have never nor will I ever talk of destruction of any kind. My >> only >> >> >>> concern is that when we talk of secularism, it has to be followed >> with >> >> >>> absolute clarity and without any bias. It is only pseudo-secularism >> >> which >> >> >>> is >> >> >>> the norm. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> A school run by christian isnstitutions does not allow hindu boys >> to >> >> come >> >> >>> with Sandal paste on their foreheadin and with a black towel worn >> >> around >> >> >>> the waist during the fasting period before going to Sabarimala, >> does >> >> not >> >> >>> allow girls to wear the traditional bindi on their forehead while a >> >> >>> school >> >> >>> run by a hindu institution cannot object to the girl coming to >> school >> >> in >> >> >>> a >> >> >>> Burkha. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> The word "uniform" is not applicable to some. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Crores of Tax payers money is spent every year on the Mecca trip, >> >> while >> >> >>> Hindus will have to pay tax to go to the holy shrines atop the >> >> himalayas. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Regards, >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Murali V >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> tion >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:16 AM, anupam chakravartty < >> >> c.anupam at gmail.com >> >> >>> >wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > Dear Murli, >> >> >>> > I am really sorry to say the stories you have been posting about >> >> >>> > Murshidabad >> >> >>> > are far from true. It is the perspective of someone who has a >> >> sectarian >> >> >>> > understanding of the problem. You generalised the gang rivalry in >> >> the >> >> >>> > region >> >> >>> > to the slaying of the hindus. The problem here lies in the fact >> in >> >> the >> >> >>> > process of strenghtening your sectarian identity you tend to >> >> accomodate >> >> >>> a >> >> >>> > lot of devaints who could have otherwise found some gainful >> >> employment. >> >> >>> > Here >> >> >>> > there were two agrarian gangs fighting for resources like >> terrorism, >> >> >>> > manipulation and worst of all, lure of power with the help of >> fear >> >> and >> >> >>> > threats. >> >> >>> > I refuse to be manipulated. It is a personal protest demanding a >> >> fair >> >> >>> play. >> >> >>> > From very close quarters, I have seen the sectarian identity >> >> >>> functioning >> >> >>> > seditiously, poisoning minds which could have done better than >> what >> >> >>> they >> >> >>> > are >> >> >>> > doing. I dont want my brethren to be blinded by the propaganda of >> >> fear >> >> >>> from >> >> >>> > the state's side or from gun runners. Insecurity drives people >> >> crazy. A >> >> >>> > nation full of people, with their aspirations cannot be cheated >> to >> >> >>> perform >> >> >>> > such a heinous crime killing or plundering or looting. They >> >> inherently >> >> >>> want >> >> >>> > fair play although when manipulated, they needed to be told that >> >> there >> >> >>> is >> >> >>> > no >> >> >>> > point in worrying about who you are -- it is about what you are >> >> doing. >> >> >>> > Sir, nation building is not an easy task. Do you think in a >> >> homogenous >> >> >>> > society (as you speak for the Hindu community) you can stop the >> >> >>> individual >> >> >>> > aspirations? Lets say as a reaction you chased out devaints of >> all >> >> >>> kinds, >> >> >>> > and only your kinds exist, would you be able to control >> subversion? >> >> You >> >> >>> > cannot afford to be unfair here. >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > I wont tell you about the multi-sectarian society and benefits >> that >> >> it >> >> >>> > brings. Because you know what it means and since as a reaction, >> you >> >> >>> have >> >> >>> > also consciously chosen to deviate from such a possibility of >> multi >> >> >>> racial >> >> >>> > or sectarian society. But whether should i respect this deviance >> at >> >> the >> >> >>> > cost >> >> >>> > of accomodating all the wrong doings is something that needs a >> >> >>> > philosophical >> >> >>> > understanding. A historical and a subjective (i know this word is >> >> >>> likely >> >> >>> > displease several readers here) understanding always accomodates >> >> >>> conflicts >> >> >>> > as the prime reason for all creations sectarian or otherwise >> (from >> >> >>> small >> >> >>> > panchyats, to the demand for new railway stations to demand for a >> >> >>> seperate >> >> >>> > state hood). These reactions are provokative and instead of >> painful >> >> >>> task of >> >> >>> > solving these issues in light of rational solutions, it proposes >> an >> >> >>> easier >> >> >>> > victory over such ailments -- by destruction. It is from here, I >> >> said: >> >> >>> "I >> >> >>> > would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's an >> >> >>> assurance >> >> >>> > to >> >> >>> > you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas here >> I >> >> will >> >> >>> > keep >> >> >>> > on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your claims." >> >> You >> >> >>> are >> >> >>> > most welcome to critique in the same rational, peaceful way not >> as >> >> >>> someone >> >> >>> > shouting "kill them all" in a discussion forums as this. Killing >> me >> >> is >> >> >>> not >> >> >>> > enough Sir. >> >> >>> > - with warm regards >> >> >>> > Anupam >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Murali V < >> murali.chalam at gmail.com >> >> > >> >> >>> > wrote: >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > And I shall also try to counter every one of your claims. >> >> >>> > > Regards, >> >> >>> > > V Murali >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:16 PM, anupam chakravartty < >> >> >>> c.anupam at gmail.com >> >> >>> > >wrote: >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > >> Dear Rajen >> >> >>> > >> You can go on and be sectarian. The moderator in this reader's >> >> list >> >> >>> > doesnt >> >> >>> > >> seem to have a problem. And i respect your democratic rights >> sir >> >> >>> that >> >> >>> > the >> >> >>> > >> constitution guarantees you. I am just calling for a boycott >> of >> >> such >> >> >>> > >> agendas. >> >> >>> > >> I would rather prefer a keyboard or a pen than a sword. Here's >> an >> >> >>> > >> assurance >> >> >>> > >> to you, the more you keep on discussing your sectarian agendas >> >> here >> >> >>> I >> >> >>> > will >> >> >>> > >> keep on presenting more issues which will be contrary to your >> >> >>> claims. >> >> >>> > Take >> >> >>> > >> my word for that. >> >> >>> > >> Best wishes >> >> >>> > >> Anupam >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < >> >> >>> > >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > >> > sword is having both sides sharp.Your thoughts apply to all >> of >> >> us, >> >> >>> as >> >> >>> > we >> >> >>> > >> > post. >> >> >>> > >> > >> >> >>> > >> > Regards, >> >> >>> > >> > Rajen. >> >> >>> > >> > >> >> >>> > >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:05 PM, anupam chakravartty < >> >> >>> > >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: >> >> >>> > >> > >> >> >>> > >> >> Dear Rajen >> >> >>> > >> >> why are u pointing people, naming them? has anybody named >> you >> >> >>> rajen. >> >> >>> > i >> >> >>> > >> >> guess >> >> >>> > >> >> they (as in Taha and Javed) speak of it because you keep on >> >> >>> > questioning >> >> >>> > >> >> them >> >> >>> > >> >> pinpointing them all the time, makign generic statements >> >> against >> >> >>> a >> >> >>> > >> >> community >> >> >>> > >> >> is something that you guys keep doing. i will never forget >> >> what >> >> >>> you >> >> >>> > >> said >> >> >>> > >> >> to >> >> >>> > >> >> meera rizvi (your surname suggest). first clean up your act >> >> then >> >> >>> > point >> >> >>> > >> out >> >> >>> > >> >> others >> >> >>> > >> >> -anupam >> >> >>> > >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi >> < >> >> >>> > >> >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> > Dear Anupam jee, >> >> >>> > >> >> > who owns the hindu religion, it i universal way of >> life, >> >> so >> >> >>> > also >> >> >>> > >> the >> >> >>> > >> >> > islam, but why a taha, a javed speak for it, do they own >> >> >>> islam.?If >> >> >>> > >> any >> >> >>> > >> >> of us >> >> >>> > >> >> > talk of ills our seculars have ready question that we do >> not >> >> >>> speak >> >> >>> > >> for >> >> >>> > >> >> > hindu, but they join to defend a husain for his right to >> >> >>> express >> >> >>> > art >> >> >>> > >> in >> >> >>> > >> >> > deities in his style, but no right to art for his own >> >> faith.? >> >> >>> Art >> >> >>> > is >> >> >>> > >> >> > heartless when it is just art, but only commerce. >> >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> >>> > >> >> > Regards, >> >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> >>> > >> >> > Rajen. >> >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> >>> > >> >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:40 PM, anupam chakravartty < >> >> >>> > >> >> c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote: >> >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >> Dear Rajen, >> >> >>> > >> >> >> My position has been same against all kinds of religious >> >> >>> > extremism. >> >> >>> > >> >> along >> >> >>> > >> >> >> with several other list members have been opposed to >> these >> >> >>> issues. >> >> >>> > >> if u >> >> >>> > >> >> >> can >> >> >>> > >> >> >> show me one instance which according to you contradicts >> my >> >> >>> earlier >> >> >>> > >> >> >> position, >> >> >>> > >> >> >> then i would like withdraw this boycott call from my >> side. >> >> I >> >> >>> wish >> >> >>> > to >> >> >>> > >> >> argue >> >> >>> > >> >> >> no more on this. i know you do not own hindu religion so >> my >> >> >>> advice >> >> >>> > >> is >> >> >>> > >> >> that >> >> >>> > >> >> >> u >> >> >>> > >> >> >> should assuming this self styled of this religion and >> >> >>> criticise >> >> >>> > >> others. >> >> >>> > >> >> i >> >> >>> > >> >> >> do >> >> >>> > >> >> >> not expect a change of heart from u but in case if that >> >> >>> happens it >> >> >>> > >> is >> >> >>> > >> >> also >> >> >>> > >> >> >> welcome. >> >> >>> > >> >> >> - best wishes >> >> >>> > >> >> >> anupam >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Rakesh Iyer < >> >> >>> > >> rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> > Dear all >> >> >>> > >> >> >> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >> > I just read a story of the Panchatantra, and it seems >> to >> >> >>> > resonate >> >> >>> > >> >> with >> >> >>> > >> >> >> what >> >> >>> > >> >> >> > one of my friends told yesterday: 'People change, they >> >> do, >> >> >>> but >> >> >>> > >> don't >> >> >>> > >> >> >> force >> >> >>> > >> >> >> > them to change. They take it at their ego' >> >> >>> > >> >> >> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >> > Here's hoping for that change one day from Murali ji, >> >> Rajen >> >> >>> ji, >> >> >>> > >> and >> >> >>> > >> >> >> others >> >> >>> > >> >> >> > of their like. And no more replies asking them to >> change >> >> or >> >> >>> > >> >> criticizing >> >> >>> > >> >> >> > them. >> >> >>> > >> >> >> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >> > Regards >> >> >>> > >> >> >> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >> > Rakesh >> >> >>> > >> >> >> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> >>> > >> >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> city. >> >> >>> > >> >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> >>> > >> >> >> To subscribe: send an email to >> >> reader-list-request at sarai.netwith >> >> >>> > >> >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> >>> > >> >> >> To unsubscribe: >> >> >>> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >>> > >> >> >> List archive: < >> >> >>> https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> >>> > >> >> > -- >> >> >>> > >> >> > Rajen. >> >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> >>> > >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> >>> > >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> >>> > >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> >>> > >> >> To subscribe: send an email to >> >> reader-list-request at sarai.netwith >> >> >>> > >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> >>> > >> >> To unsubscribe: >> >> >>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >>> > >> >> List archive: < >> >> https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >> >>> > >> > >> >> >>> > >> > >> >> >>> > >> > >> >> >>> > >> > -- >> >> >>> > >> > Rajen. >> >> >>> > >> > >> >> >>> > >> > >> >> >>> > >> _________________________________________ >> >> >>> > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> >>> > >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> >> >>> > >> To subscribe: send an email to >> reader-list-request at sarai.netwith >> >> >>> > >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> >>> > >> To unsubscribe: >> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >>> > >> List archive: < >> https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >> >>> > _________________________________________ >> >> >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >> >> >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith >> >> >>> > subscribe in the subject header. >> >> >>> > To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> _________________________________________ >> >> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> >>> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> >>> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> >>> To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > >> > >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > Rajen. > > > From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 1 16:43:17 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 04:13:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <268671.74302.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Rakesh   Except for finding incomplete and shallow the manner of the contextual reference made to "aazadi", I think the thoughts of Aashish Gupta (as reproduced by you) are well essayed.   Kshmendra --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: From: Rakesh Iyer Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur To: "Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi" Cc: reader-list at sarai.net, "Pheeta Ram" , "Tapas Ray" Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 3:37 PM Dear all I am putting forth one simple point which was told to me by Aashish Gupta, one of the members of this forum (he doesn't post, but he reads certainly all articles and being my friend, I discuss a lot with him on such issues. Plus of course, he was involved for some time with the 'Right to Food' campaign). These are his views, as per my memory, and I restate them below. " If the Army or any paramilitary forces indulge in any kind of rape or molestation, it is despicable. And since the authorities in Kashmir have refused to touch the paramilitary forces or the armed forces in such incidents, over a period of time, the local people there have come to understand that simple protests against rapes will not help, and therefore have come up to the strategic solution of fighting for azadi side-by-side with the demand of punishment against those who rape. In their view, the demand for azadi may force the administration to touch the soldiers who commit such excesses and punish them. Therefore, it's a strategic move for them, with a view to ensure justice. The fact that things have had to come up to this point therefore, is the responsibility of the Indian state. If it would have taken action earlier, things would not have come to such a passe. In the case of the Hizbul Mujahideen attack, just because people don't venture out on the streets to protest against the Hizbul, doesn't mean that they support it. This is a very wrong view. Just because some gundas come in our locality and collect 'haftas', and we don't protest them, would not mean we support their activity. It simply means we fear them. Similarly, there is a strong possibility that Kashmiris fear the Hizbul and hence don't protest against them. Some members of this forum have forgotten that any attack by the Hizbul also shows the lack of preparation from the Indian state to protect its' citizens (since Kashmiris are Indian citizens also because India lays claim to the whole state of Jammu & Kashmir). Therefore, when the Hizbul Mujahideen is able to carry out attacks in Kashmir or elsewhere, it's a failure of the Indian state to protect its' citizens, and it's a bigger failure if investigations are not carried out properly in such cases. What's more, in the case of the Hizbul, the Hizbul is a 'banned' organization, banned by the state. The Indian state has declared Hizbul as an 'illegitimate' or illegal organization thereby, and therefore, any atrocity committed by it has to be looked into by the state, which takes upon itself the responsibility of protecting Indian citizens. On the other hand, the Indian state is a legitimate or legal entity, and therefore when an arm of the state (such as the bureaucracy, the Indian army, the paramilitary forces, or any other arm), indulges in perpetration of violation of human rights in any form (be it rape, violence or any other way), nobody is going to take action in that case if the state justifies it. Therefore, the protests of Kashmiris against the armed forces is justified on the grounds that they are forcing the state to stop this violence and violation of human rights, although using the weapon of 'azadi', so that possibly such violence can stop over a period of time and things improve in the Valley. And the state is thereby being asked to change its' functioning. Hence, when the Hizbul attacks a house and rapes a woman or commits any crime, it's condemnable but more so, it's also a failure of the Indian state as well, and therefore both deserve to be condemned in such a case, because the Indian state fails from discharging its responsibilities towards its' citizens. And if the state doesn't feel that Kashmiris are Indian citizens, why not give independence to Kashmir? " Regards Rakesh _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From b_a_r_u_k at yahoo.com Sat Aug 1 18:03:09 2009 From: b_a_r_u_k at yahoo.com (Baruk S. Jacob) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 05:33:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] NREGA article In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <373110.31571.qm@web54204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> dear rakesh, thanks for the response. i found this particularly interesting: > However, the implementation of any scheme is mostly dependent on the > people who benefit from the scheme, and their active participation in it. and > The reason is that in Tamil Nadu and Kerala, there is a huge hue and cry > raised whenever such schemes don't work properly, or there is corruption, > and the people also apply pressure to make things work. why is it, you think, that particular states/regions behave like that? i have heard a similar statement about how the co-operative system worked better in kerala and gujarat (i think it was) than other places because the people were willing to get involved. why is it that some of us do not buy into ideas/systems that would help us? is it a lack in the way it is communicated? is it that we have gotten used to participating in our oppression? why do we regularly beat up pick pockets, yet rarely attack (physically at least) the corrupt? why don't we raise a hue and cry when systems don't work properly? why do people in some states do? regards, baruk [http://bottlebroke.blogspot.com] From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 1 18:18:42 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 05:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <546912.83861.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Rakesh   It appears that you have 'arrived' on SARAI Reader List.   You have adopted the 'fashion' of some in this List in using the term Indian Occupied Kashmir).   Those who are objective and acknowledge J&K (both Indian controlled and Pakistani controlled parts) as being disputed upon between India and Pakistan, use the term "Indian Controlled Kashmir" and "Pakistan Controlled Kashmir"   Presumably using the term IOK makes you feel "liberal" and "evolved".   Well done!!!   Kshmendra --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: From: Rakesh Iyer Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur To: "Murali V" Cc: "reader-list" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 10:52 PM So Pawan ji, when are you planning to organize attacks on some mosques across the country? Or will you limit yourself to IOK (Indian-occupied Kashmir)? _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 1 18:36:25 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 06:06:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <133266.60611.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <208745.18913.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Vedavati   You have to be condemned for the words you have used and for asking people to be killed or wiped out.   I feel personaly slighted and disgusted with you because I had spoken very strongly against Oishik Sircar's directing sexually abusive language against you.   You have done worse than him. Shame on you.   No one has the right to arrogate unto himself (or herself) the right to take the life of another person, or to provoke or incite others to do so. No such Dharm-Yudh, Jihad or Crusade is acceptable be it for Religious, Political or Constitutional reasons.   Kshmendra  --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Vedavati Jogi wrote: From: Vedavati Jogi Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur To: "Rakesh Iyer" Cc: reader-list at sarai.net Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 9:26 AM pawan, before organizing attack on any mosque in 'indian occupied kashmir' i suggest, you  please throw these sickulars out of this country . they are the main culprits   call jagmohan to govern the j & k, give the military free hand abrogate 370 who so ever talks against india - kill him or her wipe out all antinational elements (including people like arundhati roy and tista settlewad)   problem will be solved in no time. vedavati --- On Fri, 31/7/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: From: Rakesh Iyer Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur To: "Murali V" Cc: "reader-list" Date: Friday, 31 July, 2009, 1:22 AM So Pawan ji, when are you planning to organize attacks on some mosques across the country? Or will you limit yourself to IOK (Indian-occupied Kashmir)? _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>       See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From parthaekka at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 18:39:34 2009 From: parthaekka at gmail.com (Partha Dasgupta) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 18:39:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <208745.18913.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <133266.60611.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <208745.18913.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <32144e990908010609xc02b333m15c5c1d87cbf451e@mail.gmail.com> Dear Kshmendra. 1. Since the mail by Pawan that was responded to referred to 'POK' using 'IOK' as a response seems the proper route 2. Personalities and snap responses aside, anybody who is supposed to represent the nation (whether Police, Armed Forces, etc) and guard us takes a step that is an unethical one (and again I mean obviously unethical like murder or rape) - then they are doubly at fault since their position is one that we by default trust them. 3. Anyone who takes away our freedom of speech is also 'anti-national' as that is a fundamental right 4. Just because one person from any religion / nation, etc., makes a statement does not make them the representative of that group. I certainly wouldn't want Vedavati Jogi as a representative of my religion as I do not believe in that translation of being a Hindu. Then again, you just said something quite similar... Rgds, Partha ....................... Partha Dasgupta +919811047132 Partha Dasgupta +919811047132 On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Vedavati > > You have to be condemned for the words you have used and for asking people > to be killed or wiped out. > > I feel personaly slighted and disgusted with you because I had spoken very > strongly against Oishik Sircar's directing sexually abusive language against > you. > > You have done worse than him. Shame on you. > > No one has the right to arrogate unto himself (or herself) the right to > take the life of another person, or to provoke or incite others to do so. No > such Dharm-Yudh, Jihad or Crusade is acceptable be it for Religious, > Political or Constitutional reasons. > > Kshmendra > > --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Vedavati Jogi wrote: > > > From: Vedavati Jogi > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur > To: "Rakesh Iyer" > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 9:26 AM > > > pawan, > before organizing attack on any mosque in 'indian occupied kashmir' > i suggest, you please throw these sickulars out of this country . > they are the main culprits > > call jagmohan to govern the j & k, > give the military free hand > abrogate 370 > who so ever talks against india - kill him or her > wipe out all antinational elements (including people like arundhati roy and > tista settlewad) > > problem will be solved in no time. > > vedavati > --- On Fri, 31/7/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > > From: Rakesh Iyer > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur > To: "Murali V" > Cc: "reader-list" > Date: Friday, 31 July, 2009, 1:22 AM > > > So Pawan ji, when are you planning to organize attacks on some mosques > across the country? Or will you limit yourself to IOK (Indian-occupied > Kashmir)? > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out > Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 1 19:22:50 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 06:52:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] On Delhi In-Reply-To: <4A7414A5.8090504@ranadasgupta.com> Message-ID: <537327.23275.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Rana   1. I quite enjoyed your essay in FIVE ACTS on Delhi; "Capital Gains". Loved it in fact.   2. Especially fascinating (as one example) was your dismissing the relevance of 'Oedipus Complex' to Indian Men and instead favouring recognitions through the "Rama Complex:         """"""  I would analyse Indian men in terms of what I call the Rama complex. In the Ramayana, Rama gives up the throne that is rightfully his and submits himself to enormous suffering in order to conform to the will of his father. Indian men don’t wish to kill their fathers, they wish to become them, they wish to empty themselves out of everything that has not come from their fathers.""""""       Thought provoking insight.   3. Also interesting is your ongoing dialogue with Shuddha.       Of personal interest to me is the argumentation over your usage of the word "Socialist" and your subsequent comment:       """"""" The question you are raising is larger: do we accept the meanings of mainstream speech, and use them to our own purposes, or do we reject mainstream speech as a deception, a lapsed form ("ill-educated and foolish"), and insist on purer meanings of our own? """""""       Similarly, while I have no doubts about my own understanding and usage of the words "Nation" and "Nationalist" (as used in 'mainstream speech), I have often been confronted (on this List) with meanings ascribed to those words that are quite obviously rooted in etymological history or tossed-up (or tossing-off) academia.       I am therefore looking forward to the continued conversation between Shuddha and you on this issue.    Kshmendra   --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Rana Dasgupta wrote: From: Rana Dasgupta Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Delhi To: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" Cc: "sarai list" Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 3:40 PM You are right: my use of "Socialist" in the essay was essentially the same as that in mainstream contemporary parlance - in newspapers, for instance - where the word is used to characterise a period of centralised planning (and to make the contrast with the "liberalised" India of post-1993). Nevertheless there was indeed sharp irony - as you suggest, Shuddha ("The only way, to my mind, to echo these pretences today, is by way of some sharp irony") - about the way the word was used in this piece.  For those attuned to irony, phrases such as "the Socialist elite" or "the Socialist ruling class" must surely seem a trifle wry. But my essay is not the issue here.  The question you are raising is larger: do we accept the meanings of mainstream speech, and use them to our own purposes, or do we reject mainstream speech as a deception, a lapsed form ("ill-educated and foolish"), and insist on purer meanings of our own? In the particular case at hand, do we ignore the immense degradations that the word "Socialism" has gone through in the last century, say that none of these things was in fact "Socialism" - and claim that "Socialism" continues to refer to something else?  Or do we accept the weight of those degradations, allow that the word can never be restored to its pristine origins, and reconcile ourselves to new usages - and perhaps the necessity of coinage? There is no single answer to this question.  Sometimes it is useful to accept the shorthands of mainstream speech.  Sometimes it is important to use a word strategically in a restored context. Though you say "even if we were to consider the 'nationalization' of industries and enterprises, and the adoption of centralized planning as 'Socialist' measures (which I certainly do not)" there are many who would see this as the defining feature of Socialism - including, since you bring it up, the British Labour Party, which was said to have left behind its Socialist origins when it deleted Clause 4 - the commitment to nationalisation of industries - from its constitution.  As far as the list of would-be "Socialist" leaders that you give is concerned, it is pretty clear that state control of a capitalist economy was what was in the minds of many of them when they espoused the word.  Personally I think this meaning is too well-entrenched for us to claim it is only "fools" who would use it. Even if you were to agree with that, it would by no means be the end of all the questions, however.  The real question is the future of all the ideas that have historically operated under the word "Socialism" - which do not require this word in order to retain their force.  As you say, eloquently: a state is not a social formation. R Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear Rana, (and Naga) > > Thanks for the discussion. > > Just a note of caution, in which I would agree with Naga's comments on > your usage of the term 'Socialist' which I think mars an otherwise > very well argued and etched out piece. > > Various political figures, ranging from Mussolini, to Hitler, to Nye > Bevan, to Stalin, to Pilsudski, to Indira Gandhi, to Atal Behari > Vajpayee, to Chiang Kai Shek and Idi Amin described (at some time or > the other, or throughout their political careers) their politics as > 'socialist' and their parties/movements as 'Socialist'. Others, such > as The only way, to my mind, to echo these pretences today, is by way > of some sharp irony. > > It is true, that Nehru (and some of his other colleagues) did propose > the goal of moving 'towards Socialism' to the Congress Party. And the > word 'Socialist' was inserted into the Indian constitution during the > darkest days of the Emergency as a fig leaf to cover the reality of > repression. > > But the policies adopted by Nehru's government, and his immediate > successors, (right up to Indira Gandhi) even if we were to consider > the 'nationalization' of industries and enterprises, and the adoption > of centralized planning as 'Socialist' measures (which I certainly do > not), were arguably less far-reaching than even the policies followed > by the post war Labour government in the UK. > > No one, as far as I know, describes the United Kingdom under Clement > Atlee as a 'Socialist' society. It would be difficult to reconcile the > depth of the British class system's bite in the 1950s with any thing > even remotely approximating 'Socialism'. One of the founding documents > of the British Labour Party - the resolution adopted by the Labour > Representation Committee of 1905 (moved by W. Atkinson of the > Paperstainers Union, and seconded by Will Thorne, of the Gasworkers > Union, which stayed on the Labour Party's books until its quiet, and > embarrassed removal, in the 80s) commits the emergent Labour Party to > the goal of > > 'This annual conference of the LRC hereby declares that its ultimate > object shall be the obtaining for the workers of the full results of > their labour by the overthrow of the present competitive system of > capitalism and the institution of a system of public ownership of all > the means of production, distribution and exchange.' > > Despite this, it would be hard to call the Liberal-Labour Governments > of Ramsay Macdonald, or of Bevan and Atlee, right on to the 'New > Labour' of Tony Blair or Gordon Brown - as anything even remotely > resembling Socialism. And yet, Post War Britain, had more extensive >  measures taken for state control of key industries than India ever had. > >  If that be the case, how could we (by the same yardstick) describe > India as 'Socialist'. Is it just that we are (or have become) more > accustomed to identify Capitalism with affluence, and hence, the > seemingly 'affluent' reality of the UK seems more persuasively > 'Capitalist' than other realities, elsewhere, such as in India. Hence, > newspaper editors in the Indian English Press routinely call the > state-capitalist measures taken by Nehru and Indira Gandhi, > 'Socialist'. I can forgive Indian English Newspaper editors, because > they (by and large) tend to be ill-educated and foolish, but I expect > better from you. > > Finally, is it at all necessary to ascribe to nation states, > qualifiers that are more appropriate when speaking of social > formations? A nation state is not a social formation. Those who > thought  so, and tried to carry their thought into practice, ended up > leaving us with two of the twentieth century's greatest tragedies - > 'Socialism in One Country' (Stalinism) and 'National Socialism' (Nazism). > >  I think that the current loose way in which the term 'socialist' is > bandied about in the media, and in fulsome political rhetoric, both > here, as well as elsewhere, might have, unconcsiously seeped into your > writing in this article. I think that for a person of your acuity, it > would be best to be on guard, in the future. > > an eager reader of your writing, > > Shuddha > > > On 30-Jul-09, at 5:40 PM, Rana Dasgupta wrote: > >> Thank you for good thoughts, Naga: all the things you list are, of >> course, deeply relevant - and many more.  In retrospect the "land" >> section could probably have had more bite.  I did hope the Nanda >> incident, as well as the Ethiopian land acquisition, would give a sense >> of the impact - literal and figurative - between this emerging class of >> global capitalists and farmers and workers. >> >> On socialism: though I agree that such shorthands are never satisfying >> to categorise a whole era and system - who has a monopoly on the meaning >> of the word?  Nehru called the society he built a "socialist" society, >> and the India of that era had in place many of the features - eg >> centralised production - that characterise other nations that call >> themselves "socialist".  The meaning that the word thus acquires is >> surely real...? >> >> Thanks again >> >> R >> >> >> >> Nagraj Adve wrote: >>> Very nice piece Rana, thanks. I sometimes have this unspoken and >>> somewhat sinking feeling when I think of this segment of the >>> capitalist class your piece discusses. Fear may seem a strong word but >>> I can't think of any other to describe the emotion. As activists in >>> this city for some years now, I don't think we even grapple with the >>> realities of this class; perhaps those who are trade unionists do. >>> >>> Just some specific reactions to parts of the piece, reactions that are >>> disjointed. I liked the bits with the therapist Anurag Mishra, an >>> interesting angle. And also MC at the end of the piece. And Tarun >>> Tejpal's comments sadly are not too bleak, though there's also a >>> growing resistance to the intensifying rape of resources. >>> >>> Couple of observations: The absence of any line or comment on the >>> working poor of this city - women working as domestic help and >>> increasingly as construction labour who build the stuff that DLF makes >>> its money from; factory workers; adivasi migrants who leave their own >>> homes and communities to work in the homes of the rich here - was >>> striking. I do realize that the piece was about the very rich, but as >>> EP Thompson said in his famous intro to 'The Making ...", you can't >>> have the one without the other. Also, a mention of the destruction of >>> jhuggis in 1996 and 2001 (30,000 homes along the Yamuna Pushta) would >>> have been relevant. And also the closure of industries that happened >>> at the time. Or the decline in real wages. >>> >>> Finally, in passing: you refer about half a dozen times to India as >>> being 'socialist' in earlier decades. It has never been even remotely >>> so, not for a single day. Gunnar Mrydal had some blunt stuff to say >>> about that during a visit to Delhi in 1958. >>> >>> Thanks for the piece. >>> warmly, >>> Naga >>> >>> >>> On 29/07/2009, *Sudeshna Chatterjee* >> >>> > wrote: >>> >>>     Its a really good read! Highly recommended. >>> >>>     Sudeshna >>> >>>     On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Rana Dasgupta >>>     >wrote: >>> >>>> My recent essay about Delhi, and the culture of its new rich, >>>     from the >>>> current edition of Granta magazine. >>>> >>>> http://www.ranadasgupta.com/texts.asp?text_id=47 >>>> >>>> Enjoy! >>>> >>>> R >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>>> >>>      with >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>     -- >>>     Sudeshna Chatterjee, PhD >>>     New Delhi, India >>>     _________________________________________ >>>     reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>     Critiques & Collaborations >>>     To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>> >>>      with subscribe in the >>>     subject header. >>>     To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>     List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> "I'm an ex-citizen of nowhere. And sometimes I get mighty homesick." >> >> Rana Dasgupta >> www.ranadasgupta.com >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> with subscribe in the subject >> header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > -- "I'm an ex-citizen of nowhere. And sometimes I get mighty homesick." Rana Dasgupta www.ranadasgupta.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 1 20:06:28 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 07:36:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <32144e990908010609xc02b333m15c5c1d87cbf451e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <173465.54443.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Partha   I am an Indian and I am a Nationalist. I am an Indian Nationalist. You will please therefore see my response (to you or to Vedavati or to Rakesh) in that backdrop.   1. Pawan is an Indian and so I do not find it illogical that he should refer to Pakistan Controlled Kashmir as POK (Pakistan Occupied Kashmir).  I would similarly not see it as illogical if a Pakistani referred to Indian Controlled Kashmir as IOK (Indian Occupied Kashmir)       Rakesh is also supposed to be Indian and for an Indian to call it IOK is dissing of the Constitution of India in which J&K (both Indian and Pakistan controlled parts) is embedded as being a part of India.   2. Totally agree with you that those who are "supposed to represent the nation (whether Police, Armed Forces, etc) and guard us takes a step that is an unethical one (and again I mean obviously unethical like murder or rape) - then they are doubly at fault since their position is one that we by default trust them."   As echoing your thoughts, in a 18/04/09 posting I had written:   """""" A criminal commits a crime of a certain magnitude and so is called a criminal and is penalised in accordance with the magnitude of the crime committed.    My personal belief is when those in whom the people have vested Power and Authority commit crimes that are an abuse of the Power and Authority vested in them, the magnitude of their crime should be judged as being exponentially more serious and should receive exponentially larger penalties. Such crimes are the "Greater Evil". """"""""   3. Also agree with you that "Anyone who takes away our freedom of speech is also 'anti-national' as that is a fundamental right".       But, no freedom is 'absolute". Those who abuse the provided 'freedom of speech' for 'anti-national' purposes (in contravention of the Constitution of India that to start with provides the 'freedom' and may be subverted by such abuse) need to be held accountable for such 'abuse'. Who judges and adjucates on that? The "Executive' to the extent that it has empowered by the COI, otherwise a Court of Law.   4. For me as an Indian Nationalist (remembering that India is meant to be Secular and can only survive if it is Secular) religion should receive no acknowledgement or have any place in the public affairs. Any kind of Hate Mongering in whatever name should be dealt with immediately by prosecuting under the provisions of COI   Kshmendra --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Partha Dasgupta wrote: From: Partha Dasgupta Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur To: "Kshmendra Kaul" Cc: "Vedavati Jogi" , reader-list at sarai.net Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 6:39 PM Dear Kshmendra. 1.  Since the mail by Pawan that was responded to referred to 'POK' using 'IOK' as a response seems the proper route 2.  Personalities and snap responses aside, anybody who is supposed to represent the nation (whether Police, Armed Forces, etc)     and guard us takes a step that is an unethical one (and again I mean obviously unethical like murder or rape) - then they are     doubly at fault since their position is one that we by default trust them. 3.  Anyone who takes away our freedom of speech is also 'anti-national' as that is a fundamental right   4.  Just because one person from any religion / nation, etc., makes a statement does not make them the representative     of that group. I certainly wouldn't want Vedavati Jogi as a representative of my religion as I do not believe in that     translation of being a Hindu. Then again, you just said something quite similar... Rgds, Partha ....................... Partha Dasgupta +919811047132Partha Dasgupta +919811047132 On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: Dear Vedavati   You have to be condemned for the words you have used and for asking people to be killed or wiped out.   I feel personaly slighted and disgusted with you because I had spoken very strongly against Oishik Sircar's directing sexually abusive language against you.   You have done worse than him. Shame on you.   No one has the right to arrogate unto himself (or herself) the right to take the life of another person, or to provoke or incite others to do so. No such Dharm-Yudh, Jihad or Crusade is acceptable be it for Religious, Political or Constitutional reasons.   Kshmendra  --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Vedavati Jogi wrote: From: Vedavati Jogi Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur To: "Rakesh Iyer" Cc: reader-list at sarai.net Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 9:26 AM pawan, before organizing attack on any mosque in 'indian occupied kashmir' i suggest, you  please throw these sickulars out of this country . they are the main culprits   call jagmohan to govern the j & k, give the military free hand abrogate 370 who so ever talks against india - kill him or her wipe out all antinational elements (including people like arundhati roy and tista settlewad)   problem will be solved in no time. vedavati --- On Fri, 31/7/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: From: Rakesh Iyer Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur To: "Murali V" Cc: "reader-list" Date: Friday, 31 July, 2009, 1:22 AM So Pawan ji, when are you planning to organize attacks on some mosques across the country? Or will you limit yourself to IOK (Indian-occupied Kashmir)? _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive:       See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 20:46:33 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 20:46:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] NREGA article In-Reply-To: <373110.31571.qm@web54204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <373110.31571.qm@web54204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Baruk I may not be able to answer all your questions, but I think there may be a possible answer in the history of these states, history of the political and social movements. In the case of Kerala and Tamil Nadu, the powerful political movements during pre-independence period, focused on the improvement in the lives of people, especially those belonging to the lower castes, and classes. This was done with the aim of improving their position in political, social and economic terms. Education in particular, as also health were considered important instruments in helping people become powerful economically, socially and politically. The pressure of social movements, particularly those related to backward castes and even Dalits, helped in ensuring that education and health were prized goods, as also the availability of land and housing for all. This ensured that the state, mainly the state governments and the state executive, had to play an important role in providing education and health to all, particularly the downtrodden. If they failed to do so, the state bureaucracy and administration faced a lot of hue and cry, which was also reported in the media and in the public. Thus, they had to do a lot to improve the people's lives. This is very strange considering that politically, in both Kerala and Tamil Nadu, the parties or coalitions which are in opposition to each other are bitter opponents. In Kerala, the UDF and LDF are totally at arms against each other. And in Tamil Nadu, the enemity of the DMK with the AIADMK can only be matched by that between Mayawati and Mulayam in Uttar Pradesh. On the other hand, in the case of northern states, particularly Uttar Pradesh (UP) and Bihar, the question of getting empowered seemed to only resonate politically. This is the reason one can see the emergence of caste-based parties in both these states, which are supposedly fighting it out only for the castes whose leaders head these parties. The SP is fighting for the Yadavs (and Muslims as Mulayam claims to have saved Babri Masjid in 1990 from getting demolished, which to quite an extent is true). The BSP is fighting for the Dalits (mainly Jatavs from which Mayawati comes herself), and also now for Brahmins (from which SC Mishra is included). The RJD is like the SP in terms of its votebank. And the JD(U) is fighting for the Kurmi votes and those of other backward castes except the Yadavs. In these states also, there were political movements for empowerment, and in most cases, they were directed against the upper castes. But in most of these movements, education and health were never considered important instruments in order to achieve power for those who had been shortchanged. At best, the only requirement was thought to be political power. Those heading such struggles (even those under Jai Prakash Narayan just before the Emergency) thought of coming to power and then solving problems of the people, rather than realizing that in most districts and areas, it's the local administration which is the major issue, and change in political hands or governments won't help in changing the situation. The good thing would have been to focus on reforming district administrations, for that would have meant that irrespective of any party being in power, people who are deprived and in bad shape economically and socially would at least have some security in terms of employment security, food security, social and emotional security too. But the concentration on taking away of political power has meant that now it's gunda raj which rules both these states. And the gundas only change, depending on who is in power. So under the RJD dispensation in Bihar, the gundas were mostly indulging in kidnappings of children, looting and killing. Under the JD(U) dispensation, the crime composition instead changes to crimes against women, which includes rape, domestic violence and molestation. Similarly, under the SP dispensation in UP, there were areas where people couldn't venture out once it was 5-6 o'clock in the evenings. Under the BSP, while that may have stopped and so also crimes against Dalits somewhat, yet crimes do take place. And now since Mayawati also is trying to please Brahmin vote bank, there has been an increase in cases of crime against women as well, which is generally associated with upper castes. (Interestingly what I have read on this in the form of articles in newspapers shows that crimes against women increase with domination of upper caste, and most of these are directed against women of lower caste. On the other hand, when Dalits and tribals resort to crimes like Naxalite bombings or killings, or backwards turn to these, there are more kidnappings and lootings.) May be I may be wrong or there may have been selective reading in such articles, but that's the case. And since people who have participated in political movements and those who have seen them (bringing upheaveal) think that only gaining power can help in changing the society, they think it's impossible to change the situation. Whereas in the two southern states I mentioned, the case is opposite, for the people feel if they don't act then things won't change. And it's a cyclic chain then as far as both UP and Bihar go. People feel things won't improve till they gain power, crime rate increases under the current dispensation, then further people try to capture power through wrong means, which further increases crime, and this keeps on increasing. And that's why Bihar and Uttar Pradesh are two of the (notoriously) most corrupt states in India, where education and health standards are extremely poor. Kerala in contrast has very good standards of education and health (it does better than even China on this count). And Tamil Nadu also has quite good standards (though not as good as say Kerala) in this case. By the way, it's not just southern states which are good in this field. The northern state of Himachal Pradesh is one example of how good involvement of people in public life and putting pressures can bring about change in lives of people. May be UP and Bihar need to learn a lot from Himachal Pradesh, even if they are biased against Kerala and TN on linguistic basis. And of course, we have Mizoram as a good state to look at, which is even better than Kerala now, in certain matters. Regards Rakesh From alicetilche at hotmail.com Sat Aug 1 20:56:37 2009 From: alicetilche at hotmail.com (alice tilche) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 15:26:37 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] FW: FW: Calling for solidarity support-Adivasi Mahasabha In-Reply-To: <00b901ca0f8d$245e0fb0$0201a8c0@a1aa1d7ddc2bf4> References: <00b901ca0f8d$245e0fb0$0201a8c0@a1aa1d7ddc2bf4> Message-ID: Please forward this to your friends and all those who care for the Adivasis and the marginalized of this country. Please take a day off to espouse the cause of the Adivasis of this country, who have been always dealt with unjustly by the politicians, different governments and the rich of this country. Come in big numbers and show your solidarity with the marginalized. Adivasi MahaSabha, Gujarat Calls for a state wide agitation on 3rd August 2009 against the non implementation of the Froest Rights Act-2006, Anti people attitude of the subdivisional committees, Harassments of the adivasis by those appointed to receive the claim forms, High handedness of the forest department, Apathy of the Tribal department and their collusion with the forest department, Thus blocking the implementation of the Act and perpetuating the historical injustice the Act aimed at removing. The forms for claiming the rights are still being submitted and many claims are still to be verified.....yet the Chief secretary of Gujarat State made a public statement that only 10 percent of the claims are valid andthe rest are invlaid...!!! How could he conclude about the veracity of the claims before even completing the process? Does it mean the government has already decided that it would entertain only 10 % of the claims irrespective of the proofs, verification and other just process? Is this Forest Rights Act only a drama for the bureaucrats of Gujarat Government? Was it an eyewash and a political stunt that the Chief minister announced a year back that he would do anyhting to implement the Act and that he went around distributing few 'sanads'? Once again the Adivasis feel that they are betrayed and used for their votes and then forgotten..... So Adivasi Mahasabha, a network of over 43 organizations, NGOs and peoples movements has called for a statewise agitation on 3rd August 2009. Mammoth Rallies, Dharnas and Huge public meetings will be organized in District and Subdivsional headquarters between 3 August and 10 August allover Gujarat. Rasto Roko and other similar programms are organized on 3rd August all over the country also for the same purpose as the Act is not implemented in most of the tribal states. All people of good will, Friends of Adivasis, those supporting the cause of Adivasis, Dalits and marginalized are cordially invited and requested to make this agitation week a success. some of the programmes organized in Gujarat are as follows: In Narmada and Bharuch Districts: Rally and Public meeting at Rajpipla on 3rd August 2009 from 11 A.M to 4 P.M In Valsad and Navsari Districts: Rally and Public meeting at Dharmapur on 3rd August from 11 A.M to 4 P.M In Dangs District: Meeting and Rally at Ahwa on 3rd August at 12 noon In Vadodara, Dahod and Panchmahal districts: Cultural show,Rally and Piblic meeting at Chhota udepur on 4th August from 11 AM to 4 P.M In Sabarkantha and Banaskantha districts: Dharna before the Prant Offices at Modasa,Palanpur and Idar on 3rd August 2009 Tapi and Surat Districts: Mammoth Rally cultural show and public Meeting at Vyara A copies in Gujarati of the hand bill with programm and the avedan Patra tobe given tot he Chief Secretary of Gujarat is attached _________________________________________________________________ Drag n’ drop—Get easy photo sharing with Windows Live™ Photos. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/photos.aspx From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 21:19:50 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 21:19:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <173465.54443.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <32144e990908010609xc02b333m15c5c1d87cbf451e@mail.gmail.com> <173465.54443.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Kshamendra Since you have pointed out to my using the term 'IOK' as being against the Constitution, let me answer that particular query. The Indian Constitution is first 'Indian' and then 'Constitution'. The Constitution can be a piece of document even you and I can form, but since the people of India accepted it, it's an Indian constitution. Therefore in other words, if Indians don't support the Constitution or don't accept it, then it can't be the constitution of India. Therefore, the very survival of the Constitution is dependent on its acceptability by the people. The Constitution can't be a stagnant document according to which people are to be judged; it's a document which is supposed to reflect the values, ethos and beliefs of the people who accept it. And if these change, whether those made the Constitution like it or not, the Constitution would have to change. (depending on whether the earlier Constitution can satisfy today's changed situations or not of course) I have two basic contentions therefore against the points you are making. The first fact goes with the Constitution itself. The Indian Constitution guarantees the Right to Life for each and every citizen as per Article 21, which means that each citizen has the right to a life of dignity. It's this right under which movements for the Right to Food, Right to Employment (leading to NREGA), and various movements have been conducted. And Kashmiris demand dignity, whether it be the Pandits fighting for justice for what happened in 1989, or be it those fighting for 'azadi' and certainly against the atrocities and violations of human rights being perpetrated by the men in uniform, most of which have remained under wraps. Since Kashmiris have felt the pangs of injustice since long being forced against them, they have resorted to militant movements in the past (violence committed by which can't and shouldn't be justified by any means) and now demonstrations ( where again violence is condemnable but grievances must be looked into), which talk about freedom. What this freedom is, is for those fighting out there to decide and look into. But since the movement seems to be a fight against the Indian state, I feel that the Indian Constitution itself states that the state should be the guaranteer of freedoms of different kinds (as Fundamental Rights) and also the right to a dignified life as per various articles enshrined in it. Therefore, if the Indian state is not able to guarantee it, and if people fail that the Constitution has not been implemented properly, I don't find it anti-national or even anti-constitutional for the people to agitate and demand a separate state, going by the very provisions of the Constitution itself. The demands of the Kashmiris not being met is a failure of the Indian state and not that of the Indian Constitution. And hence, such a movement is not anti-national, though it is certainly anti-statist. It's Indian state instead which has acted against the Indian Constitution and dismissed the democratic and legitimate rights of the Kashmiris, and it deserves the sternest of condemnations on this account. And this is utterly disgusting considering that the stage to arrive at making the Constitution was achieved after the sacrifices of so many lives, so many aspirations, so many possiblities which could have been wonderful for those who fought in the freedom movement, based by and large on ethical values and ideas. And I feel that to find whether people of rest of India genuinely don't want Kashmir to be out of the Indian state, as what you state, there has to be a referendum to find the exact view, as to what the people feel about the independence of Kashmir from the Indian state (whether they support it or not). The Indian Parliament can't be trusted on this account because many decisions taken in the Parliament have hardly a chord touching with the demands of the public in most cases. (The nuclear deal is one example. There was hardly any support for the deal across the country among the common masses, and yet Manmohan Singh was ready to sacrifice his govt for it). My second contention is the very basis of human rights and respect for each other's freedoms and dignity, and this goes even beyond the Constitution. This is something which one has to give to other human beings irrespective of whether you belong to India or not. We all are human beings first. and nation states were only created post 1500 AD at least, while humans have been existing even before that. While the right of respect has been condemned by many in the past, that does not mean that it doesn't exist. It is there and every human being (and actually every living creature as well as nature) deserves it. Of course, the problem of the agency enforcing it is certainly the problem, but then it's the self-agency in my belief which has to be the one looking after this. Therefore, Kashmiris as human beings deserve dignity and India as a state has failed to ensure that for the Kashmiris. Therefore, if they feel that coming out of the Indian state, then they have a genuine right to do so, for their freedoms have been toyed around with in their perception. I even go beyond these two to present one simple argument: if Kashmiris don't feel trustworthy of India, then they will never trust Indian state, irrespective of all kinds of carrot and stick arragements the govt. wants to follow. There will be no success in bringing Kashmiris to one's own side. Then why is the govt not understanding the reality and doing what is actually required (which may be independence or simply removal of AFSPA)? Is it too afraid of the army and the Hindutva lobbies on this account? (and the nationalist lobbies too) Regards Rakesh From justjunaid at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 21:23:29 2009 From: justjunaid at gmail.com (Junaid) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 21:23:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Of Resignations at the Cost of Justice Message-ID: By resigning from his position following PDP leader Muzzafar Beigh’s charges of his being on the Central Bureau of Investigations’ list of suspects in the 2006 sex exploitation case Chief Minister Omar Abdullah has, to many, set an example of moral integrity in politics. Omar Abdullah took no time to resign in front of Governor N. N. Vohra, after Beigh made the allegation in the Jammu and Kashmir Legislative Assembly. The move to resign was clearly quite calculated, despite Omar’s assertion that it was an emotional knee-jerk reaction.... Read More on Mazameen-e-Ghai'b . From pheeta.ram at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 22:08:18 2009 From: pheeta.ram at gmail.com (Pheeta Ram) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 22:08:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? In-Reply-To: <722792.46894.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <5bedab660907311405v3c53908h68b0217e7f0d5c0e@mail.gmail.com> <722792.46894.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5bedab660908010938s6e7470f3id86fd9a8112a3735@mail.gmail.com> Is it necessary to reinvent the wheel Kshmendraji? Please refer to the threads i have been following and let meknow "the point" of your unease. I would like to be corrected if there is scope. Yours sincerely Pheeta Ram On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Ram! Ram! Pheeta Ram Ji > > You wrote: > > "I was shocked to see many kewl guys fitted in branded jeans chanting > Hanuman Chalisa when i dragged myself out of curiosity to a temple in > Delhi." > > Could you please elaborate on why you were "shocked"? > > Kshmendra > > > > --- On *Sat, 8/1/09, Pheeta Ram * wrote: > > > From: Pheeta Ram > Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? > To: reader-list at sarai.net > Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 2:35 AM > > Dear All, > I know this won't go down well with most of you but here it is: > Religions are the basic source of strife and as long as there will be > religions > (belief in this God and that) there will be such hostilities. By professing > one religion > i simultaneously create an other being who, by inference, is either > follower > of some religion > or a pagan. The basic contradiction in all religions is that despite their > moral-ethical discourse > regarding oneness of all humanity they are the principal segregators. All > the saints who have > walked the earth deluded themselves with such fancies. > > Religion is not just a system of belief but also an economy. We depend a > lot > upon our religious capital > for our subsistance. A person who professes to be a member of certain > community (primarily religious) > also depends upon it as a kind of umbilical cord and draws sucour. > > By now earth has soaked so much blood because of religious strifes that > sometimes i wonder isn't it time > to abandon all religious badges and create a ethical moral code drawn from > all the religions and start believing > in one community: that is Human. > > I think we need to believe in our brother next door and one walking on the > street or the worker on a Metro site. > We need to believe that for the survival of humanity we need to believe in > each other and not on some transcendental > agency. I wonder why we haven't learnt from our history. The primary reason > why we have failed terribly in creating a > community of all human beings that walk the earth is because we are afraid. > Afraid to believe in somebody who is in > front of us in flesh and blood. I remember a man sitting in Blue Line who > was highly uncomfortable when a profusely sweating migrant labourer got in > and found a seat, to his great relief, by his side. It is certain that he > didn't know of the > religion of that worker but the stench of his sweat and his dirty clothes > were enough for him to get up and keep standing > for the rest of his journey. I wonder when we have such intolerence for a > 'fellow' human beings' honest sweat how would we > ever begin even thinking about such a Human community. The perils that face > the earth now are reasons enough that we > start believing in each other and work for the future of humanity by > shunning all our sectarian tags. But strangely we are busy > inventing/refurbishing new messiah who would deliver us from the mess that > we have ourselves created on this earth. > > I wonder what stops us from creating a new religion of Humanity. > > The advice that comes from scholarly circles regarding all this religious > intolerance is : Tolerance! > That we need to tolerate each other. Tolerance is another form of fascism > or > nazism, what ever. I won't agree with substituting > the word toleracne with "respect" or "compassion". Why tolerate the very > root of strife in the first place. > > And yet, sadly, things are not as simple as that. But a time comes when we > have to call a spade a spade. > We have to shun God to love human beings. There is no other way. Just > visualize the situation: Two guys are standing in a big stadium in front of > each other, just a metre apart but with their faces 'heaven'wards. Why are > they afraid to see each other directly. > Why does the need arise to travel so many light years and then come to ones > brother standing just a meter away. > > I know it is plain foolishness to ask somebody whose bread and butter > depends upon religion to shun it and enter the fold of Humanity where > people > believe in people and work with mutual responsibility. But we > need neo-believers who are foolish enough to > believe in such a possibility and are ready to work for it. It's a > long revolution but a possible one. > > But, the roadblocks are mighty hard to surpass. Take for instance my case: > I have a primary school in my neighbourhood, a government one. And > every morning even before i have got up their assembly begins and the > chants > of sacred Hindu mantras begin. All this atma and parmatma stuff. Though i > don't dispute the sense inherent in the prayer yet aren't we or rather the > supposedly and proffessedly secular government entering into the business > of 'mass conversion'. When i have all these religious prayers embedded into > my consciousness right from my childhood can you imagine how much i would > have to suffer to convert back to the religion of humanity if i convert at > all and not turn into some religious fanatic. Less said of the schools run > by one religion or the other the better. > > Though the proposal seems indecent yet i think there are madmen enough to > believe in this long long revolution. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From taraprakash at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 23:10:57 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 13:40:57 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] On Delhi References: <4A6FFCEF.90205@ranadasgupta.com> <3ef603b70907290338n186e9077iae894bf724fed429@mail.gmail.com><564b2fca0907290451r37bfc21dqa95101e0d65677a3@mail.gmail.com><4A718DCE.2010809@ranadasgupta.com><1CCDDA48-3D24-4128-8A09-431915B2B710@sarai.net> <4A7414A5.8090504@ranadasgupta.com> Message-ID: <93FEF4A8C2CD4EBE97026A5663A905FB@tara> The easy solution would be to put such problematic terms within quotation marks. It may not make your sense of the word crystal clear, but the quotes will at least ensure that you yourself are not necessarily accepting the signification attributed to the word by the "main stream" or some "significant" others. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rana Dasgupta" To: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" Cc: "sarai list" Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 6:10 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] On Delhi > You are right: my use of "Socialist" in the essay was essentially the > same as that in mainstream contemporary parlance - in newspapers, for > instance - where the word is used to characterise a period of > centralised planning (and to make the contrast with the "liberalised" > India of post-1993). > > Nevertheless there was indeed sharp irony - as you suggest, Shuddha > ("The only way, to my mind, to echo these pretences today, is by way of > some sharp irony") - about the way the word was used in this piece. For > those attuned to irony, phrases such as "the Socialist elite" or "the > Socialist ruling class" must surely seem a trifle wry. > > But my essay is not the issue here. The question you are raising is > larger: do we accept the meanings of mainstream speech, and use them to > our own purposes, or do we reject mainstream speech as a deception, a > lapsed form ("ill-educated and foolish"), and insist on purer meanings > of our own? > > In the particular case at hand, do we ignore the immense degradations > that the word "Socialism" has gone through in the last century, say that > none of these things was in fact "Socialism" - and claim that > "Socialism" continues to refer to something else? Or do we accept the > weight of those degradations, allow that the word can never be restored > to its pristine origins, and reconcile ourselves to new usages - and > perhaps the necessity of coinage? > > There is no single answer to this question. Sometimes it is useful to > accept the shorthands of mainstream speech. Sometimes it is important > to use a word strategically in a restored context. > > Though you say "even if we were to consider the 'nationalization' of > industries and enterprises, and the adoption of centralized planning as > 'Socialist' measures (which I certainly do not)" there are many who > would see this as the defining feature of Socialism - including, since > you bring it up, the British Labour Party, which was said to have left > behind its Socialist origins when it deleted Clause 4 - the commitment > to nationalisation of industries - from its constitution. As far as the > list of would-be "Socialist" leaders that you give is concerned, it is > pretty clear that state control of a capitalist economy was what was in > the minds of many of them when they espoused the word. Personally I > think this meaning is too well-entrenched for us to claim it is only > "fools" who would use it. > > Even if you were to agree with that, it would by no means be the end of > all the questions, however. The real question is the future of all the > ideas that have historically operated under the word "Socialism" - which > do not require this word in order to retain their force. As you say, > eloquently: a state is not a social formation. > > R > > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: >> Dear Rana, (and Naga) >> >> Thanks for the discussion. >> >> Just a note of caution, in which I would agree with Naga's comments on >> your usage of the term 'Socialist' which I think mars an otherwise >> very well argued and etched out piece. >> >> Various political figures, ranging from Mussolini, to Hitler, to Nye >> Bevan, to Stalin, to Pilsudski, to Indira Gandhi, to Atal Behari >> Vajpayee, to Chiang Kai Shek and Idi Amin described (at some time or >> the other, or throughout their political careers) their politics as >> 'socialist' and their parties/movements as 'Socialist'. Others, such >> as The only way, to my mind, to echo these pretences today, is by way >> of some sharp irony. >> >> It is true, that Nehru (and some of his other colleagues) did propose >> the goal of moving 'towards Socialism' to the Congress Party. And the >> word 'Socialist' was inserted into the Indian constitution during the >> darkest days of the Emergency as a fig leaf to cover the reality of >> repression. >> >> But the policies adopted by Nehru's government, and his immediate >> successors, (right up to Indira Gandhi) even if we were to consider >> the 'nationalization' of industries and enterprises, and the adoption >> of centralized planning as 'Socialist' measures (which I certainly do >> not), were arguably less far-reaching than even the policies followed >> by the post war Labour government in the UK. >> >> No one, as far as I know, describes the United Kingdom under Clement >> Atlee as a 'Socialist' society. It would be difficult to reconcile the >> depth of the British class system's bite in the 1950s with any thing >> even remotely approximating 'Socialism'. One of the founding documents >> of the British Labour Party - the resolution adopted by the Labour >> Representation Committee of 1905 (moved by W. Atkinson of the >> Paperstainers Union, and seconded by Will Thorne, of the Gasworkers >> Union, which stayed on the Labour Party's books until its quiet, and >> embarrassed removal, in the 80s) commits the emergent Labour Party to >> the goal of >> >> 'This annual conference of the LRC hereby declares that its ultimate >> object shall be the obtaining for the workers of the full results of >> their labour by the overthrow of the present competitive system of >> capitalism and the institution of a system of public ownership of all >> the means of production, distribution and exchange.' >> >> Despite this, it would be hard to call the Liberal-Labour Governments >> of Ramsay Macdonald, or of Bevan and Atlee, right on to the 'New >> Labour' of Tony Blair or Gordon Brown - as anything even remotely >> resembling Socialism. And yet, Post War Britain, had more extensive >> measures taken for state control of key industries than India ever had. >> >> If that be the case, how could we (by the same yardstick) describe >> India as 'Socialist'. Is it just that we are (or have become) more >> accustomed to identify Capitalism with affluence, and hence, the >> seemingly 'affluent' reality of the UK seems more persuasively >> 'Capitalist' than other realities, elsewhere, such as in India. Hence, >> newspaper editors in the Indian English Press routinely call the >> state-capitalist measures taken by Nehru and Indira Gandhi, >> 'Socialist'. I can forgive Indian English Newspaper editors, because >> they (by and large) tend to be ill-educated and foolish, but I expect >> better from you. >> >> Finally, is it at all necessary to ascribe to nation states, >> qualifiers that are more appropriate when speaking of social >> formations? A nation state is not a social formation. Those who >> thought so, and tried to carry their thought into practice, ended up >> leaving us with two of the twentieth century's greatest tragedies - >> 'Socialism in One Country' (Stalinism) and 'National Socialism' (Nazism). >> >> I think that the current loose way in which the term 'socialist' is >> bandied about in the media, and in fulsome political rhetoric, both >> here, as well as elsewhere, might have, unconcsiously seeped into your >> writing in this article. I think that for a person of your acuity, it >> would be best to be on guard, in the future. >> >> an eager reader of your writing, >> >> Shuddha >> >> >> On 30-Jul-09, at 5:40 PM, Rana Dasgupta wrote: >> >>> Thank you for good thoughts, Naga: all the things you list are, of >>> course, deeply relevant - and many more. In retrospect the "land" >>> section could probably have had more bite. I did hope the Nanda >>> incident, as well as the Ethiopian land acquisition, would give a sense >>> of the impact - literal and figurative - between this emerging class of >>> global capitalists and farmers and workers. >>> >>> On socialism: though I agree that such shorthands are never satisfying >>> to categorise a whole era and system - who has a monopoly on the meaning >>> of the word? Nehru called the society he built a "socialist" society, >>> and the India of that era had in place many of the features - eg >>> centralised production - that characterise other nations that call >>> themselves "socialist". The meaning that the word thus acquires is >>> surely real...? >>> >>> Thanks again >>> >>> R >>> >>> >>> >>> Nagraj Adve wrote: >>>> Very nice piece Rana, thanks. I sometimes have this unspoken and >>>> somewhat sinking feeling when I think of this segment of the >>>> capitalist class your piece discusses. Fear may seem a strong word but >>>> I can't think of any other to describe the emotion. As activists in >>>> this city for some years now, I don't think we even grapple with the >>>> realities of this class; perhaps those who are trade unionists do. >>>> >>>> Just some specific reactions to parts of the piece, reactions that are >>>> disjointed. I liked the bits with the therapist Anurag Mishra, an >>>> interesting angle. And also MC at the end of the piece. And Tarun >>>> Tejpal's comments sadly are not too bleak, though there's also a >>>> growing resistance to the intensifying rape of resources. >>>> >>>> Couple of observations: The absence of any line or comment on the >>>> working poor of this city - women working as domestic help and >>>> increasingly as construction labour who build the stuff that DLF makes >>>> its money from; factory workers; adivasi migrants who leave their own >>>> homes and communities to work in the homes of the rich here - was >>>> striking. I do realize that the piece was about the very rich, but as >>>> EP Thompson said in his famous intro to 'The Making ...", you can't >>>> have the one without the other. Also, a mention of the destruction of >>>> jhuggis in 1996 and 2001 (30,000 homes along the Yamuna Pushta) would >>>> have been relevant. And also the closure of industries that happened >>>> at the time. Or the decline in real wages. >>>> >>>> Finally, in passing: you refer about half a dozen times to India as >>>> being 'socialist' in earlier decades. It has never been even remotely >>>> so, not for a single day. Gunnar Mrydal had some blunt stuff to say >>>> about that during a visit to Delhi in 1958. >>>> >>>> Thanks for the piece. >>>> warmly, >>>> Naga >>>> >>>> >>>> On 29/07/2009, *Sudeshna Chatterjee* >>> >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Its a really good read! Highly recommended. >>>> >>>> Sudeshna >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Rana Dasgupta >>>> >wrote: >>>> >>>>> My recent essay about Delhi, and the culture of its new rich, >>>> from the >>>>> current edition of Granta magazine. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.ranadasgupta.com/texts.asp?text_id=47 >>>>> >>>>> Enjoy! >>>>> >>>>> R >>>>> _________________________________________ >>>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>>>> >>>> with >>>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sudeshna Chatterjee, PhD >>>> New Delhi, India >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>>> >>>> with subscribe in the >>>> subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> "I'm an ex-citizen of nowhere. And sometimes I get mighty homesick." >>> >>> Rana Dasgupta >>> www.ranadasgupta.com >>> >>> >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>> with subscribe in the subject >>> header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS >> Raqs Media Collective >> shuddha at sarai.net >> www.sarai.net >> www.raqsmediacollective.net >> >> > > -- > "I'm an ex-citizen of nowhere. And sometimes I get mighty homesick." > > Rana Dasgupta > www.ranadasgupta.com > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 1 23:23:56 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 10:53:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <4eab87870907310311t6eb5d804s9724d17889bc6a8a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <181612.91077.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Murali Ji, In spite of reading Rakesh's views on secularism, I tend to agree with your views. Gujarat High Court in a petition had ordered all religious places built on public land to be demolished. Several temples built on/near roads on public places were demolished and no eyebrows raised. The moment a couple of mosques similarly placed were razed there was hue and cry and our dear Central Govt appealed against the decision of the Gujarat H.C.,final decision of which has recently been given by the Govt.This is the equality we have with the authority of the Constitution of India. (A.K.MALIK) --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Murali V wrote: > From: Murali V > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Temples Of Mirpur > To: "Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi" > Cc: "Sarai Reader List" > Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 3:41 PM > Dear Rakeshji, > It has come to a stage where the vote bank politics has > taken over and the > majority are on the receiving end thanks to the > pseudo-secular agenda. All > have been brainwashed to forget history. A hindu if he > claims openly to be a > hindu is considered fanatic, but the rest are taken as a > right. > > Regards, > V Murali > > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi > < > rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Rakeshjee, > >   muslims become zombies after they > hear their mullas after the prayers of > > zumma, may be you have not seen their actions as they > come out of the > > mosque > > and take laws in to their own hands, as they outnumber > at that point of > > time > > after prayers, till then they are ok but these prayers > which are mandatory > > are perhaps used to make them hate others for > perceived injustice. > > > > Recent violence at Mysore well organised by "Poplar > front of democracy" is > > headed by very secular hinds now cooling their backs > in detention, all came > > from Kerala to foment trouble in Karnataka. The MLA, > disgruntled one at > > that, Tanveer Sait is under scrutiny for "help" to > gulp the wakf lands > > which led to ugly violence, with help from "secular" > fronts. > > > > Regards, > > > > Rajen. > > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Rakesh Iyer > > wrote: > > > > > Dear Pawan ji > > > > > > I have no issues with your putting pictures. But > the way some people are > > > going about on this issue is totally horrendous. > My concern is simply > > this: > > > we on this forum are simply not debating or > discussing issues which are > > > really for the people. I don't say that temple > destruction is not an > > issue > > > for the people, but to completely mix it with > Muslim-bashing, is that > > > acceptable? > > > > > > I know I made that comment about the IOK. But > what I would like to know > > is > > > that when it keeps on coming, it seems the only > objective left behind on > > > this forum is Muslim-bashing. Muslims are > supposed to be portrayed as > > only > > > men having destructive mentality, rapists, > killers, butchers or even > > > perpetrators of injustice in simple terms. And my > point is that I don't > > > accept this view. > > > > > > I also asked the question to know from all > whether they have some idea > > > behind putting such pictures or writing such > views, and whether it is to > > > avenge the destruction of temples or renovating > them or something else. > > You > > > could have simply stated the same. Of course, for > the rest, it's > > difficult > > > to digest even Muslim presence I believe in this > nation, forget the world > > of > > > course. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Rakesh > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Rajen. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 23:37:47 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 23:37:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <181612.91077.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4eab87870907310311t6eb5d804s9724d17889bc6a8a@mail.gmail.com> <181612.91077.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Malik jee I did not comment on secularism. Any ways, our subcontinent has seen people of both Hindu and Muslim religions living together with the common masses among them living side by side without riots, at least till the 17th century. And while they may or may not have liked each other, that did not stop them from fighting together in the 1857 Revolt against the British. So probably they do know how to live together. And they don't need lectures from secularists or Hindutva ideologues on how to survive together. Hence, there is no requirement of secularism as I see it to be taught to children. What has to be taught (and most importantly inculcated in oneself) is respect and tolerance for the diversity. Which some hoodlums across all religions seem to lack. Regards Rakesh From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 2 00:15:44 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 11:45:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Temples Of Mirpur Message-ID: <306234.91400.qm@web39108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Rakesh, I think the role of the press in making comments like Muslim appointed President/Vice President/Chief Justice of India etc do bring out as if some favour has been done to them.In all other cases the word Hindu never appears. Similarly, same is being done for Dalits.Dalit appointed Speaker, dalit women raped etc.When you read all such things, it comes to one's mind that all atrocities are being done to dalits only,if a Muslim is appointed to a high post, it is news as if there is some favour. But Rakesh, the viewpoint people like me have made is based on seeing negative discriminations especially with the majority community.There are lakhs of people like you who espouse the cause of the minorities because you perhaps feel strongly if something wrong is being done.Reverse cases are only isolated because they fear repercussions from their communities. Then there are personal experiences as well.In our Office we used to take lunch together even sharing some items with each other, with one of the officers being a Muslim.There had never been any discrimination. The moment another Muslim officer joined our office, this gentleman switched over to having lunch with that fellow right from the lunch next day itself.Same thing happened with the SC officer. None of us  has ever done like that in our lifetime.Rather I have seen minority community officers doing favours to ilks of their faith but rarely so with the majority community. The divide is thus increasing day by day. (A.K.MALIK) --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > From: Rakesh Iyer > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Temples Of Mirpur > To: "A.K. Malik" > Cc: "Murali V" , "Sarai List" > Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 11:37 PM > Dear Malik jee > > I did not comment on secularism. Any ways, our subcontinent > has seen people of both Hindu and Muslim religions living > together with the common masses among them living side by > side without riots, at least till the 17th century. And > while they may or may not have liked each other, that did > not stop them from fighting together in the 1857 Revolt > against the British. > > > So probably they do know how to live together. And they > don't need lectures from secularists or Hindutva > ideologues on how to survive together. Hence, there is no > requirement of secularism as I see it to be taught to > children. What has to be taught (and most importantly > inculcated in oneself) is respect and tolerance for the > diversity. Which some hoodlums across all religions seem to > lack. > > > Regards > > Rakesh > > From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 2 00:23:32 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 11:53:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <800291.21306.qm@web39105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I agree with you Rakesh. If something wrong has been done in the past, we can't keep those feelings and punish the current generation for the atrocities done by the particular community years ago. Reverse case:One of my colleagues an SC Officer would tell us let our people come to power we will do the same to your women, what your ancestors had done to our women.What are you supposed to do on hearing such things by high level qualified officers? (A.K.MALIK) --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > From: Rakesh Iyer > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Temples Of Mirpur > To: "Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi" > Cc: "Sarai Reader List" > Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 1:51 PM > Dear Rajen ji > > I don't wish to be secular, I would rather leave that to > you and others on > the forum on their choice to be secular or not. Secondly, > by stating that > Muslims are zombies, what do you wish to convey? > > Infact, none of you: Pawan ji, Murali ji, Rajen ji, or > Vedavati ji (anybody > else in this team is also welcome) have answered one simple > question: > > Yes, the temples were destroyed by the Mughals or by other > Islamic kings. > What should we do about that? Should we repair and renovate > the temples? > Should we go and destroy mosques equal in no. to the no of > temples > destroyed? Should we kill Muslims or convert them into > Hinduism by force? > Should we rape Muslim women because Hindu women may have > been raped in the > past? Should we declare Muslims to be 'traitors' and > 'anti-nationals' and > thereby exterminate them? Or should we declare a national > policy that > 'Muslims are not to be trusted in public space or personal > relations'? Or > something else? > > What should we do about that? At least come to the point. > > Regards > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 2 00:28:30 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 11:58:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <181612.91077.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <134510.99878.qm@web39108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sorry, there was a small slip. it is final decision by the Supreme Court. (A.K.MALIK) --- On Sat, 8/1/09, A.K. Malik wrote: > From: A.K. Malik > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Temples Of Mirpur > To: "Murali V" > Cc: "Sarai List" > Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 11:23 PM > > Dear Murali Ji, >                 In > spite of reading Rakesh's views on secularism, I tend to > agree with your views. Gujarat High Court in a petition had > ordered all religious places built on public land to be > demolished. Several temples built on/near roads on public > places were demolished and no eyebrows raised. The moment a > couple of mosques similarly placed were razed there was hue > and cry and our dear Central Govt appealed against the > decision of the Gujarat H.C.,final decision of which has > recently been given by the Govt.This is the equality we have > with the authority of the Constitution of India. > (A.K.MALIK) > > > --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Murali V > wrote: > > > From: Murali V > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Temples Of Mirpur > > To: "Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi" > > Cc: "Sarai Reader List" > > Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 3:41 PM > > Dear Rakeshji, > > It has come to a stage where the vote bank politics > has > > taken over and the > > majority are on the receiving end thanks to the > > pseudo-secular agenda. All > > have been brainwashed to forget history. A hindu if > he > > claims openly to be a > > hindu is considered fanatic, but the rest are taken as > a > > right. > > > > Regards, > > V Murali > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Rajendra Bhat > Uppinangadi > > < > > rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Rakeshjee, > > >   muslims become zombies after they > > hear their mullas after the prayers of > > > zumma, may be you have not seen their actions as > they > > come out of the > > > mosque > > > and take laws in to their own hands, as they > outnumber > > at that point of > > > time > > > after prayers, till then they are ok but these > prayers > > which are mandatory > > > are perhaps used to make them hate others for > > perceived injustice. > > > > > > Recent violence at Mysore well organised by > "Poplar > > front of democracy" is > > > headed by very secular hinds now cooling their > backs > > in detention, all came > > > from Kerala to foment trouble in Karnataka. The > MLA, > > disgruntled one at > > > that, Tanveer Sait is under scrutiny for "help" > to > > gulp the wakf lands > > > which led to ugly violence, with help from > "secular" > > fronts. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Rajen. > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Rakesh Iyer > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Pawan ji > > > > > > > > I have no issues with your putting pictures. > But > > the way some people are > > > > going about on this issue is totally > horrendous. > > My concern is simply > > > this: > > > > we on this forum are simply not debating or > > discussing issues which are > > > > really for the people. I don't say that > temple > > destruction is not an > > > issue > > > > for the people, but to completely mix it > with > > Muslim-bashing, is that > > > > acceptable? > > > > > > > > I know I made that comment about the IOK. > But > > what I would like to know > > > is > > > > that when it keeps on coming, it seems the > only > > objective left behind on > > > > this forum is Muslim-bashing. Muslims are > > supposed to be portrayed as > > > only > > > > men having destructive mentality, rapists, > > killers, butchers or even > > > > perpetrators of injustice in simple terms. > And my > > point is that I don't > > > > accept this view. > > > > > > > > I also asked the question to know from all > > whether they have some idea > > > > behind putting such pictures or writing > such > > views, and whether it is to > > > > avenge the destruction of temples or > renovating > > them or something else. > > > You > > > > could have simply stated the same. Of > course, for > > the rest, it's > > > difficult > > > > to digest even Muslim presence I believe in > this > > nation, forget the world > > > of > > > > course. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > Rakesh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Rajen. > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the > > city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >       > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 00:52:56 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 00:52:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: <134510.99878.qm@web39108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <181612.91077.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <134510.99878.qm@web39108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Malik ji On a personal experience based note, I can agree that there are Muslims who like to live among themselves only, and so also there are some Hindus I have seen who are like that. I personally believe that it is and yet is not a problem, depending on the side one looks at. If what you said is true and it happens because Muslims don't feel secure among Hindus, then it is shameful and I think both sides should try and bridge over the problem. It is extremely unfortunate that such incidents occur even in the 21st century when Muslims feel secure only among Muslim colleagues and vice versa for Hindus. And anyways, a wrong act is a wrong act, whether it be done by a Hindu or a Muslim or anyone else. The divide today is particularly increasing with growing democratization of power in Indian politics. Some of our intellectuals have a tendency to celebrate this growing democratization of power in India, with the growth of a multi-party democracy being heralded as power being transferred to the masses. This is a totally bogus claim when looked in reality, particularly in the northern states of this country but substantially true in other parts of the nation as well. The fact of the matter is that in most parts of the country, this so-called 'democratization' has come about with the view that political power is the only way to redress grievances and in fact be the 'lords' over the masses. Hence, the elites or particular groups across different castes and communities have decided to fight to secure political power with the view to perpetrating their own dynastic or clan rule over the masses and thereby enrich themselves, and also show their paternalist streak or mannerisms in order to show off as being 'concerned' towards the plight of the people. On the other hand, education and health, as well as a humane and just administration, which could have helped in truly solving the problems of the people take a back-seat, simply because once that takes place, then irrespective of whoever forms the govt., the people would be able to live peacefully, and then these personalities and groups would not be able to claim fame and great name for themselves, so also the opportunity to earn billions through dubious ways. All way to proper democratization, like people's struggles to get employment, to get information about functioning of the govt. as well as even in the Right to Food case, as well as solving other problems, is simply a fodder for newspapers to be only thrown into garbage if such issues gain some space in them. Therefore, this is not democratization but simply fragmentation of political power and its availability from a small group of people to a slightly larger group of people who can now lay claim over it. The rest is all bogus. Dalits suffer under Mayawati. Yadavs don't get genuine development or good HDI (human development index) figures under Mulayam's rule. Jats and Gurjars on gaining power through acquisition of land and political power indulge in goondaism of the worst kind in some parts of UP and sometimes in Rajasthan as well. Some of the backward castes in AP and Tamil Nadu also indulge in caste discrimination of vicious kinds, although such instances are very less when compared to North India and are harshly condemned as a result of which they are not that widely prevalent or easy to practice. The result is that within the society, the Muslims, the Dalits, the Gurjars, the different castes and minority religions, (the people belonging to them that is), think that the only way they can get their problems solved is simply acquiring political power, and the rest will automatically fall in line. Also, this kind of fragmentation pits them in competition with other groups, which means that they feel secure only within their own group. And the end result is the kind of behavior you have experienced. The behavior of competition and feeling of insecurity within a diverse group is due to political compulsions entering personal lives. Of course, political compulsions of other kinds also come to the party in ensuring this. For example, the insecurity among the Muslims thanks to the BJP rule or Hindutva based organizations ensures that Muslims also don't trust Hindus that much, and soon we have 'mini-Pakistans' (the name given to Muslim-dominated demographic regions in cities of India). And if it's a worse kind of case, like in say Gujarat, we have borders as well. (Like in Vejalpur area of Ahmedabad, there is a fencing referred to as the 'border'). And in certain cases, the so-called 'secular' parties feed on this segregation to try to get Muslims behind them and become politically powerful. This is not what was supposed to be achieved. And hence the only solution to this is to actually fight for true democratization, and the inter-mingling of people across various castes, religions and diverse backgrounds and sexes. Moreover, there needs to be an appreciation for this as well, and this can only be developed through interaction and education, for value systems are one thing our education only can inculcate. Unfortunately, even the education curriculum and syllabus in India are so prejudiced and manipulated as per political whims, that even the education being offered seems to be just to serve political bosses rather than to ensure that those learning from it can actually help in contributing to a better world. The result is appearance of a disaster, the kinds of which will only be visible when disgruntled elements across the society only indulge in violence on a highly consistent basis, the likes of which we may never have seen before ever in history. And it's time we actually join hands to stop this from happening and start on a positive note. I think on a personal scale Malik jee, it's necessary for you to at least ask that Muslim colleague of yours why he behaves like that, and whether he feels insecure. I think that trust can be obtained, otherwise we can all keep singing only in our dreams: 'ye dooriyan, in raahon ki dooriyan, nigahon ki dooriyan, humraahon ki dooriyan, fanaa ho sabhi dooriyan' Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 01:52:36 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 01:52:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Article on Ahmedabad blasts - Tehelka Message-ID: Dear all At the risk of igniting a huge controversy on this forum, I am putting forth an article which is published in the recent Tehelka issue, on the Ahmedabad blasts. I am not sure which view to take, (since I don't know whom to believe and how much) but I strictly believe that to avoid such controversies, it's time all of us really press the govt. to bring a law forcing the state govts. to undertake proper police reforms in a 'holistic' sense so that the police authorities function in a professional, transparent and a humane manner which seeks to bring justice, while also removing from it the inactive policemen and all kinds of political interference. Regards Rakesh Article: Home | Current Affairs | Opinion | Business | Engaged Circle | Culture & Society | | Web Specials | Interact | Archives Sunday, 2 August 2009 Advertise With Us| | *TEHELKA INITIATIVES:* Critical Futures | Tehelka Foundation *From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 31, Dated August 08, 2009* *CURRENT AFFAIRS* *cover story * *Chilling Confession* *‘WE WERE TOLD THAT BOYS HAD COME FROM OUTSIDE. THEY WERE NOT LIKE US. THEY WORE JEANS AND T-SHIRTS. I KNEW ABOUT THE BOMBS... I BACKED OUT BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT KEEPING THEIR PROMISE. INSTEAD OF TARGETTING THE VHP, THEY WERE PLANTING BOMBS IN CROWDED PLACES TO KILL INNOCENTS’* [image: image] *The Gujarat Police took quick credit for arresting the masterminds behind the July 2008 blasts in Ahmedabad. **RANA AYYUB** tracks the police’s star witness to find he has been tortured into falsely implicating the ‘masterminds’. An exclusive report* HE HAS a name, but lets just call him ‘Witness’. He had a life too — like yours and mine — till 26 July 2008, when serial blasts shook Ahmedabad. Between 6.45 and 7.55 that evening, 16 bombs exploded in various parts of the city, including in a hospital where the injured were being rushed to. As the death toll reached 56, Witness had only one thought – he could have been responsible for the bloodletting, the mayhem, the death of innocents. He almost was. Witness was in on the plot. He knew bicycles were being bought. He knew low-intensity explosive devices were being assembled. He knew they would be concealed in tiffin boxes and the boxes placed in the bicycles. But Witness withdrew at the last minute — barely 24 hours before 6.45 in the evening — when he learnt that the target areas had changed. As the plot was being hatched in meetings Witness attended before July 26, he was given to believe that RSS and Bajrang Dal offices would be targeted. But the script changed. Witness withdrew when he realised that innocent people in crowded places would be slaughtered. The Gujarat Police was quick to blame the blasts on the Indian Mujahideen (IM), the same group held responsible for the blasts in Jaipur on 13 May 2008. But when different states paraded different faces, all proclaiming their catches as the IM’s mastermind, TEHELKA started an investigation that led it to Witness. [image: image] *Implicated* A forensic team investigates the site of one of the serial bomb blasts that took place in Ahmedabad on 27 July 2008 *Photo: *SHAILENDRA PANDEY The testimony of Witness is important — and credible — for several reasons. First and foremost, because he indicts himself, openly admitting he was part of the plot till the last moment. This gives his words credence. His words gain even more credence because he has given more or less the same narrative to the Gujarat Police. The narrative changes at one crucial place – when he reels off the names of the men behind the Gujarat blasts. But wait. Witness has told TEHELKA that he was physically tortured by the police into naming innocents, that he could not bear the physical and mental torture he was subjected to. They were not responsible for the serial bombings, he swears. I, TEHELKA’s special correspondent, landed up at his house in Juhapura, accompanied by the wife and daughter of an accused in the case. Witness’ sister opens the door. Her brother is not home, she says. As I speak to her, a male voice asks from inside, “Who’s there?” When she does not answer, a man comes to the door. He is around 22, dressed in kurta and jeans, just like any college student. The lady with me says, “He is the one.” Yes, this is the Gujarat police’s star witness. The police arrested people on the basis of Witness’ statements. The police said its claim that the Gujarat blasts was the work of the Indian Mujahideen, a reincarnation of the Student’s Islamic Movement of India (SIMI) was proven by Witness’ statements. It is on the basis of Witness’ statement that the police have named the masterminds in the case – Mufti Abu Bashar and Sajid Mansuri. At first, Witness is unwilling to talk. He is preparing for exams, he says. He sees the lady accompanying me and asks her what she is doing with me. I have smuggled myself in, wearing a head scarf, trying to pass off as one of them. He lifts up the lady’s child in his arms and allows us in, looking around to see if we have been spotted. After keeping in him detention for twelve days and beating the confession out of him, the police now keep an eye on their ‘approver’. [image: image] Casualties of the Ahmedabad bomb blasts wait for treatment at a hospital *Photo: *SHAILENDRA PANDEY Witness bursts into tears when I ask him questions. “Don’t make me narrate everything again. My family and I have gone through hell all because of me. It was all a big mistake,” he says between sobs. His mother, an ailing lady in her late 50s enters. She wants to know if we too are from the police. “How many questions do you want to ask him? He has told you everything he knows. Now leave him alone!” she says. Witness ushers her out and bolts the door. “I wouldn’t be talking had it not been for this girl,” he says, gesturing at the girl now sleeping snugly in her mother’s arms. “Her father is innocent, ma’am. They are all innocent. If what I say to you can do anything, then please get them freed. They are in jail for no fault of theirs.” Witness was detained days after the blasts in Ahmedabad took place in July last year. He was part of the plot until he learnt the targets included hospitals and not those responsible for the 2002 Gujarat riots. Until he learnt that they were not going to kill the ‘Bajrangis’ or those who had admitted to having slit open the stomachs of pregnant women during the riots. [image: image] alleged SIMI operatives being paraded before the media by the police *Photo:* INDIAN EXPRESS THEY (THE conspirators) had told us that they wanted to avenge the atrocities committed against Muslims but what they were doing would also kill Muslims,” says Witness. Although he was never told who the top bosses were, he carried out the orders of his fellow plotters. Witness also reveals troubling truths – he denies ever being a part of SIMI. He denies the involvement of SIMI in the plot and says he knows the Indian Mujahideen only as a phrase seen in newspapers. Witness says he was tortured into implicating the men he met during Friday prayers. “The police forced me to name those they had arrested.” Our long conversation was occasionally interrupted by his mother’s knocks on the door. She was both scared and curious but Witness wanted to talk. He wanted to unburden himself and reveal everything; all in the hope that it would help free those innocent people languishing in jail. *THE WITNESS* was party to the plot. He knew the bicycles were being bought. He knew the low-intensity explosive devices were being assembled but he backed out at the last minute, just before 6.45pm The words came in a torrent and he spoke, initially without much prodding. “My friend Alamzeb Afridi [absconding, involved along with Witness in the blasts] introduced me to Yakub bhai [earlier detained, now a witness], Arif Kagzi, Yunus Mansuri and Sajid Mansuri [all accused in the July 2008 Ahmedabad blasts and all ex-SIMI members who spoke to TEHELKA in Sabarmati jail]. They told me that they used to be SIMI members. I knew Alamzeb from college. We used to meet in the evenings for religious discourses. We would discuss the Quran and often attended various programs at Yaqub *bhai’s*place. These guys would only teach us about the * hadees* [the Prophet’s statements and actions] and would tell us about the life of the Prophet. I was told that after SIMI was banned, they would hold educational programmes to explain the true meaning of Islam to youngsters who were disillusioned. People like Abdul Subhan Qureishi [one of the masterminds of the plot, now absconding] and Safdar Nagori [General Secretary, SIMI] used to come there. I was told that Subhan worked with Wipro and that he had been absconding ever since his name came up connection with the July 2006 Mumbai train blasts. He said that he was not involved in the blasts. He said that the group hated the hardliners and wanted to work against the propaganda put out by the VHP and the RSS. This was in 2007. In the meetings we were told how Muslims were being tortured in Afghanistan, America and Palestine. Subhan Qureishi used to tell us that these were the real people who were against Islam. Of all the people who attended, Abu Bashar Siddiqui was perhaps the most reserved of all. He had tremendous knowledge about the Quran and the *hadees* and used to speak about the true essence of Islam. Those meetings were not conspiracy sessions. In them, no one ever spoke about the plot. Subhan used to bring Abu Bashar Siddiqui for the religious gatherings and it was very clear that he did not discuss anything else with him. There was an annual meeting of SIMI every year. In 2007, it took place in Indore. They just wanted the ban on SIMI to be lifted. It was there that Safdar Nagori and others were arrested. Subhan and Qayamuddin Kapadia [recently arrested, named by Witness as being involved in the blasts] were also to reach there but they said they had missed their train. They returned to Ahmedabad two weeks later. Alamzeb, Mujeeb [another ex-SIMI member, now in jail], Tauseef [a localite accused in the case, now in jail] and I had continued to meet after namaz. [image: image] *Chain of Evidence* SIMI leader Safdar Nagori after being arrested from a house in Indore’s Manikbag locality *Photo:* P NAVEEN After the Indore arrests of SIMI cadres, Subhan Qureishi met Mujeeb, Alamzeb, and me and told us that we had to do something to avenge the Gujarat riots. Subhan first approached the SIMI guys. They told him outright that they did not wish to be a part of anything and that they were struggling to lead a normal life as had been tortured enough by the Gujarat police for being SIMI members. These people could not even carry on their normal jobs. Qayamuddin was also absconding then as the police was after him. The first time Subhan and Qayamuddin met us was at a shop at the Dani Limda area in Ahmedabad. We were told not to involve the SIMI people and also to take in new people with no records. Arif and the others told Subhan not to do anything destructive. SUBHAN THEN gave us Rs 3,000 to enrol in some physical fitness courses like swimming. We did that for a month. Only the three of us — Mujeeb, Alamzeb and me — knew about it. Qayamuddin was our leader. We were asked to stay away from SIMI members, as they would have stopped us. We did not meet any SIMI member. Subhan and Qayamuddin had tried to gauge who could do the task and had told just the three of us. Qayamuddin got a CD just a month before the blasts. The CD was shown to Mufti Abu Bashar as he was the only one who could understand Arabic. A few days afterwards, Qayamuddin came to us and told us that some boys had come from outside who were well trained and who wanted to do something. None of us knew them. Nobody knew them. We were only given orders. When Qayamuddin mentioned bombs, I said that the original plan was to attack the VHP headquarters and not kill common people. He retorted that even if we didn’t help them, the boys from outside would set off the bombs. He said they wouldn’t wait for us and told us that if we helped them, they would be able to place the explosives at the right places and would be able to take revenge against the right people. *‘WE SAW *what happened in Godhra. It was wrong. We saw the VHP men talking about slitting the stomachs of pregnant women. We just wanted to show them how it feels when your own are killed,’ he says We then agreed to the plan. Qayamuddin then gave us Rs 5,000 and asked us to buy 10 cycles. At that time my exams were on. Alamzeb bought six bicycles and gave me three. I parked them at places where no one would touch them and Alamzeb parked his cycles too. Later, Qayamuddin called us. We asked him about the bombs and how many casualties they would cause. Initially, they said the bombs would be kept in buses and we were asked to identify the right buses. We then confronted them, saying that people in buses were not our targets. We said we should set off the bombs in places were Hindus dominate and where it is difficult for Muslims even to enter. The places they had chosen were areas like Paldi, which also had a large number of Muslims. The targets were then changed to areas like Maninagar and Satellite. Qayamuddin later took me with him and showed me places like Naroda [one of the worst hit during the Gujarat 2002 riots] and told me that these were the places were we needed to plant the bombs. I was told to just look at the areas. After we came back from Naroda, we met Mujeeb who was waiting for us near the Vadodara express highway. Qayamuddin then told me that I did not appreciate what we were doing and that I was too busy with college. I retorted that that was because they were not keeping their promise to attack the VHP. I told them I did not want to be a part of the plan. [image: image] Abdul Subhan Qureishi, named by the police and by Witness as one of the masterminds of the Ahmedabad blasts *Did you know Sadiq Israr Ahmed? [in custody with the Mumbai police, named as one of the IM masterminds and accused in the Ahmedabad blasts. Recently cleared by a Mumbai court of involvement in the 2006 Mumbai train blasts] Was he ever a part of the plan?* No. I’ve never heard of him. If the SIMI members found out about our plan, they would never have let us go ahead with it. *Did any of you go to Pakistan or any other country?* No, never. The names I have read in the chargesheet are just names to us. We only heard about them on TV. SIMI was just a small organisation. Poor Abu Bashar had no idea what was going on. Whenever he was around, we never spoke about the plot. In fact we were told never to discuss anything with SIMI. The only reason Abu Bashar has been implicated in the case is because he used to attend *tableeghi jamaats *[religious conferences] across the country and was also very keen that the ban on SIMI be lifted. He was perhaps the only one who would speak to us about the true meaning of Islam. After I said I wouldn’t be a part of the plot, I was removed from the group. It was only on the morning of the blasts when Alamzeb came in to get the cycles that I felt something was about to happen. I told him where the bicycles were parked and then went to college. It was only after I returned that I realised that the blasts had taken place. After the blasts, the group avoided me. Even when they met me they asked me not to discuss the plot. The only fault of Zahid Sheikh [a friend of Witness arrested by the police and accused in the case. Also accused of attending terror camps in Ahmedabad] and others who have been arrested is that someone told him that the blasts were done by this group. I met Alamzeb five days after the blasts and asked him about the boys from outside. Were they like us – kurta-pyjama clad and bearded? Alamzeb replied that on the contrary, they didn’t look like us. They were welleducated, wore jeans and T-shirts and smoked a lot. *THE INDIAN MUJAHIDEEN* is a phrase he only knows from the newspapers. He also denies any SIMI role in the Gujarat blasts. ‘If SIMI members knew the plan, they would’ve never let us go ahead with it,’ he says *Did you know their identity?* No ma’am. They never divulged these things. Alamzeb only told me that they had rented a room and that they were extremely well-trained in making bombs. They were not like one of us. There was another person who kept the bombs. There is a stark difference between us and those people. They were like none of our group or any SIMI members we had seen. *You have been named a witness in the case. Your statement says that those named in the chargesheet including Arif, Tauseef, Zahid and the others played an active part in the blasts. Why did you say that? Did they torture you mentally or physically?* They first took me to Ashish Bhatia’s office [Joint Commissioner of Police heading the investigations]. They strip you completely. One person sits on one leg and another on the other. They kept me twisted over in a 180 degree position. Like they did to poor Zahid. They trick you. They told him that everyone had named him and that he should take responsibility for the blasts. They did the same to me. I could not stand the pain, so I did what they told me to. *Are those named in the chargesheet involved?* How could they be? We knew exactly what was happening from Day One. The people named had no inkling. Naved Kadri, one of them, is from Juhapura, like me. He would get frightened at the thought of blood. His only fault was that he was a friend from Juhapura. He has been chargesheeted as a conspirator. I have seen him being tortured in custody. He is still inside. [image: image] Mufti Abu Bashar, accused by the police of involvement in the blasts but cleared of any involvement in them by Witness *Do you see the role of a SIMI insider? * The third party with the bombs only came into the picture after the SIMI guys were all inside. How could they do it? *Did you know about the Indian Mujahideen? * No. SIMI was banned in 2001. All of them — Safdar Nagori and the rest — were still free. If they had actually received training they would have done the blasts way back. Why would they wait? The blasts happened only after they were arrested. In my lie detector test, they asked me about the IM but I’ve seen this term only in the newspapers. *But you were still a part of the plot. Why did you join it? * You know what happened in Gujarat. What happened in Godhra was wrong. The guilty should have been punished. But you know what they did to us. We saw the videos of Babu Bajrangi on TV and the VHP guys talking about slitting the stomachs of pregnant women. Politicians knew that what happened was wrong. The Hindus here knew exactly that it was wrong but they still support Narendra Modi. We just wanted to show them how it feels when your own people are killed. *You were a part of the plot till almost a day before the blasts and you have been let off. But others who don’t even know about the blasts are in jail. Why did this happen?* Ma’am, I only know how the plan was hatched and that the cycles were bought. The policemen told me that Yunus Mansuri said I had planted the bomb. I said that in that case, call him; I will face him because I know I have not done so. They told me this before they had even arrested him. Two days later, they arrested him, saying that I had named him. I told them whatever I knew. I know that uninvolved people were suffering, and I told the crime branch that those people were innocent. But they implicated them. There is no such thing as justice. Sub Inspector Bharvad took me out in a vehicle and said, as he took out his revolver, “You bastard, run! We don’t want to investigate you people. Run!” He later took me to the police station and I was tortured. They abused Muslims and kept on torturing me. I knew that I could not take it anymore and I gave in. I said whatever they told me to. They made me say that I had planted the bombs. When I met Police Inspector Tarun Barot, I told him I couldn’t take the pain. I said I would kill myself. Barot told me, “Don’t worry, I have spoken to Ashish Bhatia. We will make you a witness in the case.” I told them the truth so they would free the innocents, but they made a false statement from what I said. They warned me against speakingout and told me that they could implicate me and that there was scope for supplementary chargesheets. I am speaking out now because I am disgusted, because innocent God-fearing men are in jail. ‘THE POLICE tortured me. They undressed me and kept me in an 180 degree position. I could not take the pain so I did what they told me. They forcefully made me name those they have arrested,’ he says *How can you be so sure that the others were not involved?* It was all done secretly. We were told strictly to keep away from SIMI men like Arif, Sajid and the rest. If Mufti Abu Bashar and the others knew about it wouldn’t they have spoken to us about it? Only Subhan, Qayamuddin, Alamzeb and I knew about the plot. *What about Abu Bashar? * Subhan brought Abu Basher into the group in Ahmedabad only for his knowledge of Arabic and the *hadees.* They said Abu Bashar had asked us to wage *jihad,* which is absolutely false. Subhan categorically asked us to keep our mouths shut in front of Abu Bashar because he was quite educated and was a God-fearing man. Subhan and Qayamuddin were always on the run. They kept saying that they need people to help carry out attacks. *Did the Gujarat Police ever lure you?* They keep telling me, “Listen to us. You are a state witness. We will take care of you. Just don’t talk about this outside.” *When was the last time you met Subhan Qureishi?* Around 30 days before the blasts. ‘QAYAMUDDIN showed me places like Naroda [one of the worst hit during the Gujarat 2002 riots] and said that these were the places where we needed to plant bombs,’ says the police’s star witness Unknown to the police, Witness has given us a full account in which he also damns himself. We also spoke to police officers without letting them know that we had had a long meeting with their star witness. The police maintain that they have a strong case. Says Joint Commissioner of Police Abhay Chudasama who is in charge of the case, “Even a child would know how important a witness would be in this case. And we do believe that whatever statements we have got from them and from the accused corroborate the evidence and will be enough to strengthen our case and nail the accused”. When asked specifically why the alleged mastermind in the case would keep changing and asked about Abu Bashar Siddiqui, Sajid Mansuri and Yunus Mansuri [whose involvement in the case Witness has denied], Chudasama maintained that they were the key conspirators. While Chudasama was not as forthcoming when it came to the status of the witnesses, Ashish Bhatia, IG, Law and Order, who was the Joint Commissioner of Police in charge of the investigations maintained that some people who had backed out of committing the blasts were made witnesses and that their confessions would be crucial. When asked if the statements were voluntary, Bhatia said that all the statements were voluntary and in case the witnesses retracted their statements — even though they were recorded before a magistrate and therefore couldn’t be retracted —the Police would have the right to file a case against them. When asked if the witnesses had been tortured, both Chudasama and Bhatia replied that the matter was *sub judice.* One year into the blasts, the trial is still to begin. Perhaps in the case of the Ahmedabad blasts there may not be no such thing called justice. *WRITER’S EMAIL* rana.ayyub at gmail.com *From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 31, Dated August 08, 2009* Print this story Feedback Add to favorites Email this story UP Congress head arrested By A Special Correspondent Read>> HS Sabharwal case takes darker turn By Divya Gupta Section 377 Amended In Favour Of Gay Sex By Sabika Muzaffar Ganguly honoured by Lancashire University By Tara Menon More Stories>> About Us | Who’s Who at Tehelka| Advertise With Us | Print Subscriptions| Syndication | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy| Feedback| Contact Us | Bouquets & Brickbats Tehelka.com is a part of Anant Media Pvt. Ltd. © 2000 - 2009 All rights reserved From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 02:09:13 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 02:09:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] More on police excesses Message-ID: Dear all This seems to be a disease now. If this is how our armed forces function, they should not be surprised if after 1857, we have the Second War of Independence, directed by the people of India against the armed forces of India to fight injustices being perpetrated against them. And this independence will be from those who are supposed to protect us. We must all actually press for police reforms and reforms in the functioning of the armed forces as well. And education to police is also something which must be looked into carefully, as a part of the reforms, to sensitise the police about human rights, instead of acting as the goondas having uncontrolled powers, which is how the police and the armed forces in different measures and degrees, have been acting across the country. Regards Rakesh Home | Current Affairs | Opinion | Business | Engaged Circle | Culture & Society | | Web Specials | Interact | Archives Saturday, 1 August 2009 Advertise With Us| | *TEHELKA INITIATIVES:* Critical Futures | Tehelka Foundation *From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 31, Dated August 08, 2009* *CURRENT AFFAIRS* *fake encounter * *Murder In Plain Sight* *In Manipur, death comes easy. In this damning sequence of photos, a local photographer captures the death of a young man, killed in a false encounter by the police in broad daylight, 500 metres from the state assembly. How can a State justify such a war against its own people, asks **TERESA REHMAN* *1. Chongkham Sanjit, 27, is seen standing in a PCO with the Manpur Police Commandos adjacent to a pharmacy (marked by an arrow)in Imphal on July 23 * *2. Though surrounded by commandos, there is no obvious resistance from Sanjit (marked by a red circle) * IF ANY picture can speak a thousand words, these photos — available exclusively to TEHELKA — could fill volumes. They capture a shootout that happened in the heart of Imphal, Manipur’s capital, barely 500 metres from the state assembly, on July 23. They show the moments before, during and after the ‘encounter killing’ of a 27-year-old Indian citizen – a young man called Chongkham Sanjit, shot dead by a heavily-armed detachment from Manipur’s Rapid Action Police Force, commonly known as the Manipur Police Commandos (MPC). There is a grotesque and brutal history to the bullets that killed this young man. For years, decades even, security forces in Manipur have faced allegations of human rights violations and extrajudicial murders committed under cover of the draconian Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA). In 2000, Irom Sharmila, stirred by the gunning down of 10 civilians, including an 18-year-old National Child Bravery Award winner, by the Assam Rifles, started a hunger fast — that lasts to this day — in protest against the AFSPA. In July 2004, the nation was rocked by the protests of a group of Manipuri women who marched to an Assam Rifles base in Imphal, stripped naked and raised a searing banner: “Indian Army Rape Us”. They were protesting the rape, torture and murder, a fortnight earlier, of Thangjam Manorama, 32, who was picked up from her home at night by the Assam Rifles. Manipur rose up in protest that day, and in August 2004, the Centre relented, withdrawing the AFSPA from Imphal’s municipal zone. ‘Post-Manorama,’ as history is marked in Manipur, the army has taken a backseat, withdrawing outside the municipality. However, life in Manipur is still lived on the tightrope. In a seemingly new counter-insurgency strategy, the MPC has unleashed a reign of terror in the state. *PAST INCIDENTS* *NOVEMBER, 2008: SALAM AJIT SINGH* Singh, 30, was allegedly killed by the Imphal West Police Commandos and 39 Assam Rifles on November 7, 2008. Singh ran a taxi service. In January 2009 his family filed a petition with the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) *DECEMBER, 2008: MD TASLIUMUDDIN* Tasliumuddin, 20, a daily wage labourer, was allegedly killed in an ‘encounter’ by the Imphal West Police Commandos and 32 Assam Rifles on December 30, 2008. The NHRC has registered a case *DECEMBER 2008: OKRAM RANJIT SINGH * Singh, 27, a brick mason was allegedly killed in an ‘encounter’ by the Imphal West Police Commandos and 12 Maratha Light Infantry on December 22, 2008 in Imphal West district. The family has filed a petition with the NHRC *JANUARY 2009: LAISHRAM DIPSON* Dipson, 28, was allegedly killed by the Imphal West Police Commandos and 39 Assam Rifles on January 12, 2009 at Laingam Khul. The lorry driver’s family has filed a police complaint *JANUARY 2009: NINGTHOUJAM ANAND* The 30-year-old auto rickshaw driver was allegedly killed by the Imphal West Police Commandos and 16 Assam Rifles on January 21, 2009. A complaint has been filed with the NHRC The organisation known as the Manipur Police Commandos (MPC) was first set up in 1979 as the Quick Striking Force (QSF). Former Inspector General of Police, Thangjam Karunamaya Singh told TEHELKA, “They were trained for special operations. But the men had strict instructions. They were told to fire only when fired upon and pay special attention to the needs of women, children and the elderly. If they arrested somebody on suspicion, they had to take responsibility for their security,” stated Singh. The MPC does not fall under the AFSPA but has now become notorious across the state. It operates only in the four districts of Manipur – Imphal East, Imphal West, Thoubal and Bishnupur. The MPC is housed in isolated commando barracks and has minimal contact with the general population, though its personnel are all locals. Extra-judicial killings, and, in particular, fake encounters by the MPC have become common in Manipur. In 2008, there were 27 recorded cases of torture and killing attributed to the MPC. Where once they conducted ‘encounters’ in isolated places, they now do not think twice before operating in cities, in broad daylight, as they did on July 23. In several incidents, innocent civilians carrying money and valuables have been robbed and sometimes killed. In some cases official action has been taken against commandos for misconduct. For instance, in July 2009, five police commandos who had reportedly robbed three youths were suspended. But for the most part, their extra-judicial activity goes scot free. According to the official version of Sanjit’s encounter death at 10:30am on July 23, a team of MPC personnel was conducting frisking operations in Imphal’s Khwairamband Keithel market. They saw a suspicious youth coming from the direction of the Uripok locality. When asked to stop, the version goes, the youth suddenly pulled out a gun and ran away, firing at the public in a bid to evade the police. The official record states that the youth was finally cornered inside Maimu Pharmacy near Gambhir Singh Shopping Arcade. He was asked to surrender. Instead, he fired at the police. The police retaliated and the youth was killed. The account states that a 9mm Mauser pistol was “recovered”. The youth was identified from his driver’s license as Chongkham Sanjit, son of Chongkham Khelson of Kongpal Sajor Leikai, Manipur. Usually, such official versions of encounters are difficult to disprove though everyone may know them to be false. But in an almost unprecedented coincidence, in Sanjit’s case, a local photographer rushed to the scene and managed to shoot a minute-by-minute account of the alleged ‘encounter’. The photographs (shown in preceding pages) clearly reveal that, contrary to the official version, Sanjit was, in fact, standing calmly as the police commandos frisked him and spoke to him. He was escorted inside the storeroom of the pharmacy. He was shot point blank inside and his dead body was brought out. The photographer, fearing for his safety, does not dare publish these pictures in Manipur. The photographs clearly reveal that contrary to the official version, Sanjit was standing calmly as the MPC commandos frisked him Eyewitness accounts partly corroborate the police version — except their account is obviously about a young man other than Sanjit. These witnesses state that a youth did escape from a police frisking party about a hundred metres away from where Sanjit was killed. The police chased this youth and opened fire, killing an innocent bystander, Rabina Devi — who was pregnant at the time — and injuring five other civilians. Afterwards, the police showed the media a 9mm Mauser pistol which they alleged was thrown away by the militant before he fled. After about half an hour, the police claimed to have killed the youth who escaped from their hands “in an encounter”; according to them, this youth was Sanjit. The photographs clearly indicate otherwise. The police claim Sanjit was a member of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA), a proscribed insurgent outfit. Chief Minster Okram Ibobi Singh also made a controversial statement in the assembly that day, asserting that there was no other alternative but to kill insurgents. Sanjit was indeed a former PLA cadre. He was arrested in 2000 but freed. In 2006, he retired from the outfit on health grounds. In 2007, though, he was detained again under the NSA and was only released a year later. Since then, he had been staying with his family at his home at Khurai Kongpal Sajor Leikai and had been working as an attendant in a private hospital. But even if Sanjit was a former militant, he should not have have been killed in a false encounter. The photos show him talking to his killers, calmly, without offering any resistance. He was frisked moments before the shootout. He was not an insurgent on the run. In fact, Sanjit had to make periodic appearances before the Court, a requirement that the Court later lifted. “Legally speaking, Sanjit was a free man,” says M Rakesh, a lawyer at the Gauhati High Court’s Imphal Bench. There are also significant inconsistencies in the police versions of the recovery of the weapon. First, they said it was flung away by the fleeing militant. Then they said it was recovered from Sanjit after the encounter. As the photos show, Sanjit was ushered into the pharmacy, not chased in. Also, if Sanjit was, in fact, armed with the 9mm Mauser, why wasn’t it found during the frisking? Why, as the photos show, was he taken inside the storeroom? First the police said the pistol was flung away by the fleeing militant. Then they said it was recovered from Sanjit after the encounter The law says if a death is caused by state forces in an encounter which cannot be justified by Section 46 of the Criminal Procedure Code, the officer causing the death would be guilty of culpable homicide. In this case, only a rigorous investigation can establish what exactly transpired. Instead of instituting a judicial enquiry, however, the state government is setting up a departmental enquiry, which is unlikely to yield any justice to the victims’ families. Sanjit’s family claims he had broken his earlier links with the militants and was leading a normal life. They say he had gone out that day to buy medicines for his uncle, who is undergoing treatment at Imphal’s JN Hospital. Says Sanjit’s mother, Inaotombi Devi, “Life is very cheap in Manipur.” Manipur is routinely roiled by such devastating narratives. Ex-MLA 78-yearold Sarat Singh Loitongbam’s son Satish Singh was killed by the armed forces. Though a devout Hindu, he refuses to perform his son’s last rites until his name is cleared of wrongdoing. Like Satish, there is Ningombam Gopal Singh, a 39- year-old Grade-IV employee at the Imphal Bench of the Gauhati High Court, a man who was chatting over tea with women at a hotel when he was dragged off by men in plainclothes, to be shot dead in an ‘encounter’. There is 24-year-old Elangbam Johnson Singh, a student and part-time salesman, picked up by the MPC while out with a friend and killed in an encounter, his corpse at the morgue bearing signs of torture. Stories like these are a grotesque lattice in Manipur. “Life in Manipur,” as one observer puts it, “is like a lottery. You are alive because you are lucky.” *WRITER’S EMAIL* teresa at tehelka.com *From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 31, Dated August 08, 2009* Print this story Feedback Add to favorites Email this story UP Congress head arrested By A Special Correspondent Read>> HS Sabharwal case takes darker turn By Divya Gupta Section 377 Amended In Favour Of Gay Sex By Sabika Muzaffar Ganguly honoured by Lancashire University By Tara Menon More Stories>> About Us | Who’s Who at Tehelka| Advertise With Us | Print Subscriptions| Syndication | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy| Feedback| Contact Us | Bouquets & Brickbats Tehelka.com is a part of Anant Media Pvt. Ltd. © 2000 - 2009 All rights reserved From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 01:54:37 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 01:54:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Article on Ahmedabad blasts - Tehelka Message-ID: Dear all Another article from Tehelka expressing views. The only thing I can say is that we really need to press for proper police reforms to avoid all such kinds of controversies and ensure justice is done in such cases. Regards Rakesh Article: Home | Current Affairs | Opinion | Business | Engaged Circle | Culture & Society | | Web Specials | Interact | Archives Saturday, 1 August 2009 Advertise With Us| | *TEHELKA INITIATIVES:* Critical Futures | Tehelka Foundation *From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 31, Dated August 08, 2009* *CURRENT AFFAIRS* *The Seeds Of Wrath* *Our hysteria for ready answers has become a dangerous trap. A bomb blast conspirator's explosive confession poses a challenge to us all* [image: image] *SHOMA CHAUDHURY* *Executive Editor* IN THE clever calculations men make about security and State, they underestimate the power of human despair. But despair can be a deadly weapon. When you lose faith that a system will protect and play fair by you, it breeds fatal recklessness. It makes you abdicate from the rules that cement human relations. Despair can turn you from citizen to perpetrator. >From the hunted to the hunter. >From 2006 to 2008, there was an escalating climate of terror in the country. With terrifying regularity, bomb blasts went off in Hyderabad, Delhi, Jaipur, Bengaluru, Ahmedabad. And finally, most brazenly, in Mumbai. But Mumbai 26/11 was different: here the killers outed themselves: like a giant game show gone horribly wrong, groups of young men in clear view of millions went about with impunity shooting people down. The enemy was visible. Tangible. They could be dealt with. With the other blasts, there was no one to pin the crime on. And as bombs kept exploding and people kept dying, fuelled by a media hungry for immediate answers and genuine citizens’ distress, a paranoia gripped the country. Hundreds of young Muslims were arrested. And within a few days — often within a few hours — police and agencies, who had had insufficient knowledge to preempt the blasts, began to hold press conferences on how they had cracked the case. A triumphant line of deadly “masterminds” were trotted out: Safdar Nagori, Maulana Haleem, Mufti Abu Bashar, Atif Ameen. Under pressure to perform, the police hid behind short attention spans and a confusing cocktail of Islamic proper nouns. They knew that neither the media (rushing off to its latest story) nor ordinary citizens were interested in the details. No one wanted veracity. Everyone only wanted the illusion of security and ‘action taken’. The few human rights groups and media outfits who raised flags about false arrests and gaps in police logic were scorned as ‘anti-national’. Or doctrinaire liberals. The larger point was missed. It is no one’s case that those who plant bombs should go unpunished. Those of us raising flags had only two simple arguments to make. One, take the long route, catch the genuine culprits, remain constitutional: that is the only way to be really secure. Two: do not make false arrests and breed fresh despair, triggering new cycles of hate and revenge. If you corrupt a system entirely, people will abdicate from it. And black despair can be a deadly weapon. This week, TEHELKA’s cover story braids all these themes together and teases out their giant implications. The story is about a young man, Muslim, no more than 22, caught in a terrible dilemma. He is a star witness in the Gujarat police’s case. Based on his statement, dozens of men are locked in jail. Except, this young man’s statement is a lie. He was coerced by the police into becoming their witness in exchange for his own freedom. He has remained silent for a year, sick with himself, but free. Tracked to his house by TEHELKA reporter Rana Ayyub, he breaks down.Rana is accompanied by a young woman in a burkha, holding a child. The woman’s husband — an innocent man — is in jail because of this witness. Confronted by her and the child, rocked by remorse and a sudden desire for atonement — in an almost cinematic moment — the man tells his real story. One could dismiss his account as another false turnaround, except in telling the story — like some protagonist in a classic Greek play — the young man implicates himself. He is no ordinary witness. He is self-confessedly a member of the July 2008 bomb blast conspiracy. Conscience-struck, he stopped short of planting the bombs when he realized the targets would not be Hindu zealots like the RSS and VHP but ordinary bystanders. But he knows and names who his real co-conspirators were. To free the innocent men in jail, he must now bear the cross himself. It is not enough that he shrank back from the abyss and backed out of the conspiracy. As he says to Rana, by speaking out, he is consciously setting himself up for reprisal from the police. So how is the police and State going to react to this man’s confession? At a specific level, his story blows big holes in the police’s case in Gujarat, exposing a damning lie and injustice. At a profounder level, it is a parable for what is happening beneath the skin of our democracy in countless other places. It raises questions about media, prejudice, policing and the due process of law. Most of all, it raises the question: in a just democracy, how should we deal with those who assault us? Of the many strands in this story, there is first the one about nailing true culpability. It is obvious from this witness’ account that all the wrong men are in jail and the police know it. Take Abu Bashar, for example. The media and police jointly touted him as one of their deadly ‘masterminds’. But the witness says he is far from that. The Abu Bashar he paints is a gentle and religious man, so opposed to violence, the mentors of the conspiracy specifically advised the witness and his friends to keep him in the dark. The police know this, yet Bashar continues to languish in jail. This confession raises a question. In a just democracy, how should we deal with those who assault us? There are other troubling details. The witness speaks of torture and the police’s double-crossing tactics to extract false statements. Set aside polite questions about human rights. What about the holy grail: national security? According to the witness, the real conspirators — Subhan Qureishi, Alamzeb and Qayamuddin — are still on the run. What is one to make of this willful official charade? Lock innocent men in jail, let the guilty roam free. What is this society we are creating, where we are in such a hurry to get answers to difficult questions, we’d rather get false answers than none, even if it means innocent men must pay? Another profound issue this story raises is one of causality. The witness cites all the big faultlines — Gujarat 2002, false arrests, tortures — as reasons why he and his friends were drawn into the conspiracy. And, indeed, it would be myopic to treat these bitter young men as merely hard criminals. Yet, the argument of causality is a tricky rope. Gujarat 2002 cannot justify bomb blasts of 2006 – 2008. By that logic, extremist Hindus would also be right in marshalling their own epic justifications: Hindu pilgrims burnt alive in a train, Kashmiri Pandits chased out of a valley, organised Christian conversions, a Hindu swami murdered in his ashram. Be they real or imagined wounds, causality can never be a justification for violence. But in a society overtaken by greater and greater hysteria, all causalities must be recognised and addressed. No military might can break the lethal chain of action and reaction. Redressal for grievances stands a better chance. Finally, this is an intimation of our easy and extreme prejudices. Until a few months ago, whipped on by an unthinking media, India was being lured into demonising 250 million of its citizens. For many years, SIMI — a politically strident Islamic student organization — was a convenient scapegoat for the police. By a sleight of hand, the bad aura around SIMI was projected onto Indian Muslims at large. Last year, TEHELKA published an exhaustive investigative story that proved many SIMI members or ex-members jailed by the police were actually innocent men, wielding nothing more dangerous than strong political views. At no point did TEHELKA vouch for SIMI as an organisation, but by flagging individual miscarriages of justice it broke the easy consensus on SIMI. But by then, another pet poltergeist had been conjured by the police and media: the Indian Mujahideen. (At a press conference in Gujarat, with almost laughable cynicism, DG Police, PC Pande told waiting media, “If you remove S and I from SIMI, you have IM: Indian Mujahideen.” For him, that clinched the truth.) The police hid behind short attention spans and a confusing cocktail of Islamic proper nouns Now, in an eerie corroboration of TEHELKA’s earlier story, the witness strongly asserts that no SIMI members were involved in the conspiracy. In fact, their mentors – “outsiders” he calls them, “shadowy men, clean shaven who spoke English and smoked a lot” told him and his mates to stay away from SIMI members because they would scuttle the plan to plant the bombs. Who were these “outsiders” — calm, anonymous, out of frame — and why is the police not working overtime to track them down? How many veils of prejudice and illusion do we as Indians voluntarily live behind? This man’s story is a challenge to us all. How is he to be dealt with? One route — the familiar one — would be for the police to kill him extra-judicially because he has exposed them. But here is a man, bewildered, wounded, tempted into violence. He was brought to the brink but had the courage to pull back. Now, he has the courage to undo another wrong and expose mighty forces at grave danger to himself. Clearly, like hundreds of others, he has both wronged and been wronged. How should a mature society react to such a conundrum? *WRITER’S EMAIL* shoma at tehelka.com *From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 31, Dated August 08, 2009* Print this story Feedback Add to favorites Email this story UP Congress head arrested By A Special Correspondent Read>> HS Sabharwal case takes darker turn By Divya Gupta Section 377 Amended In Favour Of Gay Sex By Sabika Muzaffar Ganguly honoured by Lancashire University By Tara Menon More Stories>> About Us | Who’s Who at Tehelka| Advertise With Us | Print Subscriptions| Syndication | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy| Feedback| Contact Us | Bouquets & Brickbats Tehelka.com is a part of Anant Media Pvt. Ltd. © 2000 - 2009 All rights reserved From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 02:31:01 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 02:31:01 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sardar Sarovar Dam - A project of sorrows Message-ID: Dear all This is even more shameful than the earlier article I posted. After reading such an article, I always wonder how strong are the people of India never either to give vent to their anger through violent actions (by and large), and also neither giving support to spirit of dictatorship which can solve all these problems of theirs. Equally, it seems the Indian bureaucracy is so cheap and damning that it seems strange nobody does to their officers and officials, what Vedavati jee had in mind to the 'sickulars' of this nation. Regards Rakesh Article: Home | Current Affairs | Opinion | Business | Engaged Circle | Culture & Society | | Web Specials | Interact | Archives Saturday, 1 August 2009 Advertise With Us| | *TEHELKA INITIATIVES:* Critical Futures | Tehelka Foundation *From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 31, Dated August 08, 2009* *CURRENT AFFAIRS* *special report * *Old War, New Bodies* *Dubious middlemen, farmers tricked into selling their land, dam oustees sent to jail — it’s all part of the government’s rehabilitation package. **TUSHA MITTAL** captures the cascading madness in Narmada valley* *STORY AT A GLANCE*- Gujarat, MP and Maharashtra governments want the dam to go higher, but SC says every oustee should first be rehabilitated *•* *Two lakh people affected by the dam. More than half without homes* *•* The MP government says it has no land to give oustees, yet later claims to have rehabilitated them *•* *MP asks oustees to find land themselves, triggering massive scams • *Fake land is bought and sold by middlemen while oustees are jailed for this *•* *Unaffected farmers are now being displaced by those displaced by the dam•* Cash compensation ruins farmers used to self-sustaining land-based economies [image: image] Uprooted Medha Patkar with Sardar Sarovar dam oustees on the Narmada *Photo:* AP TEN YEARS AFTER the waters submerged her fields, 65-year-old Ali Bai continues to live on a half-submerged hilltop, under a broken bamboo roof. On paper, she’s been rehabilitated. In reality, not only has she been cheated of most of her compensation money, she could also face a potential jail term. So could thousands of others trapped in a new sinister game being played in the Narmada valley. More than 20 years ago, the people of Narmada valley were asked to make a sacrifice for the greater common good of the country. Eight lakh hectares of irrigated land, drinking water for millions of people and 1,450MW of power: for this, they were asked to look away as the waters drowned their huts, their fields, their cattle, their schools, their hilltops. They were promised fair compensation. In the last 20 years, the debate around the Sardar Sarovar Project (SSP) has become emblematic of the larger questions around the idea of development itself – the fight over our resources, the conflict between people and progress, the erosion of self-sustaining ways of life. In the last 20 years, the SSP has also been touted as yet another ‘temple of modern India’ – a gateway to the kind of developed society we want to become. That is why it is significant that four years after it was scheduled to be completed, none of those promises have been fulfilled. Only 72,000 hectares have been irrigated, only 7 percent of the promised water is reaching the thirsty millions — because only 30 percent of the canals have been constructed — and only 30 percent of the promised power has been generated. In the drought-prone region of Kutch that was touted as the *raison d'être*of the project, people have filed cases in the Supreme Court (SC) against the dam because the promised waters haven’t come. The Planning Commission cleared the Sardar Sarovar Project dam in 1988 at a cost of Rs 6,406 crores. Today, Rs 45,000 crores have been spent and the figure could rise to 70,000 crores by 2012. That is why there is reason to be cautious of the new promises the SSP dam authorities are rapidly and boldly making. The Madhya Pradesh, Gujarat and Maharashtra governments are furiously petitioning the Narmada Control Authority for permission to take the dam to its final sanctioned height of 138.68 metres from its present height of 122 metres. OF THE two lakh people who live in the project’s submergence zone, Madhya Pradesh has the largest number of oustees – almost 80 percent. Their sacrifices for the greater common good of the country will never make them martyrs. There will be no memorials or anniversary celebrations. And in 1999, the Madhya Pradesh government admitted to the SC that it has no land to give them either. The SSP is perhaps the only project in the country where the rehabilitation of the displaced at each stage is a pre-condition for further construction. No other dam has been as much in the public eye or received as much international attention. No other people’s movement has managed what the Narmada Bachao Andolan has – in 1993, the World Bank withdrew its funding over human rights violations. For no other dam has the SC asked for proof that the thousands displaced have been resettled before it gives further clearances. This is what makes a new scam in rehabilitation even more significant. Desperate to meet pre-conditions and raise the dam higher, the Narmada Valley Development Authority (NVDA) introduced a Special Rehabilitation Package (SRP) worth Rs 300 crore in 2001. It gives oustees cash compensation as long as they can prove they’ll buy land with it – a feat the government couldn’t accomplish themselves. Today, the SRP scheme has led to more chaos and displacement. While the State defines only those whose lands are slated for submergence as “project affected”, as one travels through the Nimad plains of Madhya Pradesh, it is impossible to find a non-project affected family — farmers who were unaffected by the dam have begun killing themselves, those displaced are finding themselves in jail, those who have received compensation are being asked to return it, while the ineligible and the deceased are paid crores in compensation. When 70-year-old Ganga Ram of Kawthi village realised he hadn’t received a penny of the Rs 5.6 lakh given to his son who died two years ago, he complained to the local authorities and threatened to go to higher if the money wasn’t returned. Ganga Ram went missing the next day. Villagers tell TEHELKA they saw his body floating in the Narmada river. No one expects a government scheme to reach its target population without money being embezzled along the way. What makes the corruption in the rehabilitation of SSP oustees significant, perhaps, is the years of turbulent history behind it. The Supreme Court issued orders in 2000, 2002, and 2005 that all displaced people must be rehabilitated on lands they have agreed to accept at least six months before submergence. Those losing more than 25 percent of their land must be given land in return, a minimum of five acres. In April 2006, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh himself wrote to the SC. He promised that the oustees would be rehabilitated in four months, before the dam height reached 122 metres. Dam authorities have testified to the SC that all required rehabilitation is complete. Yet the irony is that people affected not only at the current dam height of 122 metres, but since the dam was 90 metres high, are yet to rehabilitated. On paper, the villages of Nisarpur, Kharya Badal, and Bhavaria are empty — everyone has moved to the rehabilitation site. But when TEHELKA visited the villages, we found bustling courtyards, temples, children herding the goats. “For the benefit of thousands, we can’t save your land,” officials in Bhopal told Ram Das when he marched to the capital in protest a year ago. 17 acres of his cotton and chilli had been razed to make rehabilitation plots for 200 families from Nisarpur. Today, those 17 acres lie empty with churned rubble. The land with its soft black alluvial soil was ideal for cultivation, but not for construction. The open drains, lack of water and large pot holes did not help. All 200 families returned their house plots. Meanwhile, Das’ son has quit engineering college because his once successful father is now a landless labourer ‘for the benefit of thousands’. Those who haven’t lost land to submergence or to nonfunctional rehabilitation have lost it to canals being pushed through their fields. In many cases, like Dinesh Bhai from Dharampuri, those fields were already irrigated with tubewells. None of the 23,500 families who’ve lost land to the Narmada Canal count as “project affected.” Now, there’s a new way to lose your land and livelihood – without your knowledge, a cabal of middlemen and government officials could transfer it to an SSP oustee, for the greater common good. THERE ARE no roads that lead to the adivasi hamlet of Kotbandhini. It is only when you cross the Narmada on boat and trek up the Vindhya mountains to meet Ali Bai on a green mountain summit, that you understand the senselessness of what has happened in the Narmada valley, and the horror of what is about to happen if the authorities get their way again. It is only then that you understand how crude money can be, and how it is turning self-sufficient land-based economies into midget replicas of a cash-driven world: A villager sells off his goats to make room for a new motorcycle, only to realize he can’t afford the petrol; a village suddenly has a large number of bachelors because no one wants to marry their daughters to the new prodigal alcoholics; a brother gets a bigger house and stops talking to his poor family – the many crises of a monetary city life creeping into rural communities. The people of Kotbandhini were rehabilitated on lands in Gujarat. On reaching there they found the same plot of land allotted to oustees from another village in MP. They were forced to return. Those who stayed returned two years later because the land was infertile. Yet, in affidavits to the SC dam authorities say Kotbandhini has been successfully resettled. Ganga Ram hadn’t received any compensation and so complained to the local officials. He went missing the next day Rs 1,190 crores – that’s the rehabilitation budget of the MP government to resettle 40,000 families affected by the SSP. Ali Bai doesn’t know how much of it she has received; she cannot count. Teeth gone, gums loose, her voice is loudest, clearest when she says ‘Heera Lal’, the name of the *dalal*(broker) who took her to a big town to get her compensation of Rs 5.6 lakh. He left her with a few thousand. In 1999, the MP government said to the SC that it has no land to give to oustees. The SC replied that it should buy private land. Farmers have written letters to the government willing to sell their land to the SSP oustees at current land rates. The government refused because “land prices were too high.” Suddenly, in 2000, the MP government wrote to the SC saying it has created a land bank to rehabilitate the oustees. In reality, much of this land was uncultivable, drawn from cattle grazing area or already inhabited by adivasis. No surprise then that most farmers refused to accept it. “Out of 4,304 projectaffected families, so far 4,044 have refused to accept the allotted land and opted for the Special Rehabilitation Package (SRP),” the NVDA wrote to the SC in a 2008 affidavit. This is what the SRP is: Since the state government cannot find land, it tells the oustees to find it themselves. Each oustee and a major son is allowed a cash compensation of Rs 5.6 lakh in two instalments. After the first, they must find five acres of land to purchase, pay an advance, and produce a *“sauda chitti”* or land sale agreement before they are given the rest. The land rates are at least Rs 2 lakh per acre for non irrigated land, and much more for irrigated land. How is an oustee expected to purchase five acres in five lakhs? The scheme itself is unworkable. Desperate to get their cash compensation, the oustees have fallen prey to a nexus of middlemen — brokers, local land records officers and revenue officials — who say they will help the oustees get their money for a broker fee. And so fake land sale agreements are born: A fake seller, a fake photo, fake witnesses, fake land that does not even exist being purchased on paper by the oustee to get his due compensation. Except that all of it is not fake. In many cases, the land that oustees show they are buying has been snatched by the middlemen from real land owners whose fields and lives had until now been unaffected by the SSP. Land records show Chaggan Bhai sold his land to SSP oustees. “What?” he said, his pink turban slipping off, when TEHELKA visited his village in Kukshi. He hadn’t a clue his land had been transferred to someone else’s name. A fake seller, a fake photo, fake witnesses. Fake land that does not exist is bought by the oustees to get their compensation It was Narmada Bachao Andolan (NBA) activists who first brought this scam to light. From 2005 to 2007 they asked the MP government to look into the matter but the government denied any fake records. In 2007, the Narmada Control Authority, headed by a secretary of the water resources ministry, asked the MP government to form a task force consisting of police and revenue department officials, to inquire into fake registries. Suddenly, the NVDA began transfering people. GS Bhagel, Vinay Kumar Dhoka and Ambaram Patidar were all land acquisition officers who are now sub divisional magistrates in the revenue department. As a result, the officers enquiring into the charges were those at the helm during the corruption! The government task force report admitted to 758 cases of fake registry, but it only showed the oustees as the ones culpable. The government registered 230 FIRs and directed the NVDA to take action against them. Of those FIRs four are against middlemen and two against government officials. The remaining are the land buyers — those already displaced by the SSP, witnesses, and sellers — like Sitaram Mal Singh of Kukshi, who owns only 12 acres but is registered as selling 15. The NBA went to court against the government inquiry. Its own assesment is that more than 2,000 registries are fake. When the Jabalpur High Court gave an interim order in February 2008 to stop further arrests, 55 of the 230 charged were already in jail for “cheating and forgery of valuable security”, punishable by upto 10 years or life imprisonment. Accepting the government inquiry is one-sided, the high court appointed an independent commission. Its report is due in two months. When Alok Gulab from Semalda village reached NVDA for his compensation, a resettlement officer called Mr Modi pointed to the *dalals *perched outside: “Come through them.” The greater common good is not what he had in mind. *WRITER’S EMAIL* tusha at tehelka.com *From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 31, Dated August 08, 2009* *Related Stories* • *Old War, New Bodies * Dubious middlemen, farmers tricked into selling their land, dam oustees sent to jail — it’s all part of the government’s rehabilitation package. *TUSHA MITTAL* captures the cascading madness in Narmada valley • *‘They Cheated Me Because I’m Blind’ * Hamir was lucky enough to not lose his land to the submergence. But he lost his land to those who claim to have rehabilitated Narmada oustees • *‘Money Evaporates, Land Remains’ * The dam drowned his fields and pastures. When he demanded land for land, the government turned its back on him • *‘I Thought We Were Safe. I Was Wrong’ * Kamal Mujahaldi went to pay his taxes and found his land had been sold to someone he didn’t know • *‘Dalals Were The Only Way To Get My Money’ * Madhya Pradesh has no land to rehabilitate the dam oustees. Instead, the convoluted rules of the relief package create victims for conmen Print this story Feedback Add to favorites Email this story UP Congress head arrested By A Special Correspondent Read>> HS Sabharwal case takes darker turn By Divya Gupta Section 377 Amended In Favour Of Gay Sex By Sabika Muzaffar Ganguly honoured by Lancashire University By Tara Menon More Stories>> About Us | Who’s Who at Tehelka| Advertise With Us | Print Subscriptions| Syndication | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy| Feedback| Contact Us | Bouquets & Brickbats Tehelka.com is a part of Anant Media Pvt. Ltd. © 2000 - 2009 All rights reserved From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 04:10:58 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 04:10:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Another article, another disaster in the making Message-ID: Dear all I think after reading this article, Manmohan Singh should seriously consider to get India bombed by its own nuclear bomb, get the resolution passed in the Indian Parliament for this purpose, and if necessary organize a trust vote like the July one in 2008 to get it passed. For after all, what's the use of living like this, suffering injustice day in and day out? Why increase the pain of the people both in real and potential terms? Let us end all this at least. May be other nation-states across the world may learn their own lessons and not make mistakes at least. If only Singh or Sonia Gandhi or Advani or Modi (or other politicians, including the useless Madhya Pradesh ones) would have lost any of their relatives in Bhopal, would probably they understand the anguish and despair people of Bhopal have suffered after the 1984 gas leak in the then-Union Carbide plant. And probably only then in their conscience would a feeling generate to get justice for the cause. I always wonder where are the RSS (and the rest of the Sangh parivar including the BJP), the Congress, the Muslim league, the RJD, the Samajwadi Party, the BSP, the DMK, the AIADMK, the Left, the PMK, the JMM, the JD(U), the NC, the PDP and all other political forces of the country when it comes to getting justice for those who suffered in Bhopal. And where are their conscience levels and sources of information when such kinds of things are taking place in this nation? Or have they sold their conscience and our lives and proven that they are worse than Ajmal Kasab? Regards Rakesh Article: Home | Current Affairs | Opinion | Business | Engaged Circle | Culture & Society | | Web Specials | Interact | Archives Saturday, 1 August 2009 Advertise With Us| | *TEHELKA INITIATIVES:* Critical Futures | Tehelka Foundation *From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 30, Dated August 01, 2009* *ENGAGED CIRCLE* *guest column* *A Time Bomb We Await* *Hillary Clinton was here to urge a dangerous deal — that the US never has to clean up another Bhopal mess* *NITYANAND JAYARAMAN * *Independent journalist* [image: image] *Wilting **A woman exposed to toxic gas waits for a doctor at a hospital in Bhopal ***** THE FALLOUT of Hillary Clinton’s recent visit to India could be dangerously nuclear, literally. Clinton’s India visit had an important agenda – to urge India to pass a law to ensure that a Bhopallike disaster does not trouble its victims for as long as the 25-year-old tragedy has. There is one twist, though. Bhopalis are not the subject of this proposed legislation. Rather, the ‘victims’ that the two Governments are committed to helping are US multinationals like GE that are champing at the bit to supply nuclear equipment and lure India’s $175 billion nuclear market. India expects to set up 40,000 MW of nuclear power plants over the next 20 years. The poor little rich American corporations are petulant. State-owned companies like France’s Areva SA and Russia’s Rusatom are already in the race to supply equipment to India. But private sector players like GE and Toshiba Westinghouse say they will not invest until India ratifies the Convention on Supplementary Compensation for Nuclear Damage (CSCNL) and installs a domestic civilian nuclear liability regime. They want no part of the liabilities arising out of a Bhopal-like disaster. Rather, they say, the entire liability in the event of a catastrophe should be borne solely by the Indian operator of the facility. Like his predecessor, President Obama is pushing India to guarantee that the Union Carbides of the nuclear world suffer no losses regardless of the role that may have been played by their equipment or technology in causing the disaster. Exclusive liability for operators of facilities and supplier immunity may have been the norm in earlier nuclear liability conventions adopted by some nations. “But then, no other nation has suffered a Bhopal like disaser,” states Kanyakumari-based anti-nuke activist S.P. Udayakumar. Indeed, Union Carbide’s decision to deploy flawed design and untested technology contributed substantially to the magnitude of the disaster. An unnamed minister quoted in a June 27 Business Standard article says the Government has a draft nuclear liability bill ready. “What this will do is indemnify American companies so that they don’t have to go through another Union Carbide in Bhopal,” he said. Local operators, on the other hand, will have to raise $450 million up-front to cover post-disaster compensation costs. Additional costs will have to be borne by Indian taxpayers. The Price-Andersen Act in the US also imposes a similar burden on the American taxpayer. According to Cato Institute, the free market think-tank, this could translate into a subsidy of 2 to 3 US cents for every unit of electricity generated. Another estimate places the annual subsidy extended by the Price Andersen Act to the industry at about $3 billion. Ironically, the liability cap — $450 million — is exactly what Union Carbide paid for the Bhopal disaster. Whittled down from the original $3 billion that the Government estimated as the cost of compensation, the final settlement when spread across 6 lakh victims amounted to a paltry $500 per victim – insufficient even to cover a year’s medical bills, leave alone pay for treating sick children born after the disaster. BHOPAL ACTIVISTS are “disgusted” by the attitudes of the Indian and US Governments. “A nuclear disaster will have far greater impact than Bhopal had. Environmental contamination will spread farther. Bhopal has taught us that $450 million is woefully inadequate to deal with a disaster’s fallouts,” said Rachna Dhingra of The Bhopal Group for Information and Action. In 2006 and 2008, Bhopal survivors, including children, walked 800 km to Delhi to demand for economic, medical and environmental rehabilitation, provision of clean drinking water, and punishment of the guilty corporations from the Prime Minister. On both occassions, the PM conceded the demands, albeit after making them wait for months on the streets of Jantar Mantar, and suffer police torture. Till date, he has not delivered on his promises. Contrast this with the speed at which the UPA and the US Governments are moving to appease corporate interests. During his visit to Washington in March 2009, India’s special envoy Shyam Saran told the Americans that progress was being made on the liability law. In April, he said the internal processes for India’s accession to the CSCNL were complete and promised that the law would be enacted after the national elections. During Clinton’s visit, this was a significant point on the agenda. A panel discussion organised on the eve of Clinton’s visit to New Delhi was openly critical of the proposed liability regime. But the organisers – the Coalition for Nuclear Disarmament and Peace and the International Campaign for Justice in Bhopal – clearly stated that they were not opposed to the concept of a liability regime. “But such a law should be informed by the experiences of disaster victims, rather than be influenced by the interests of corporate perpetrators of such disasters,” a statement by the two organisations clarified. Such progressive legislation is not without precedent. Post-Chernobyl, the trend in civilian nuclear liability law began tilting towards unlimited liability, and non-exclusive liability. Non-exclusive liability would allow victims to recover compensation from operators under dedicated nuclear liability laws, even while keeping their options open to asserting claims from other defendants under other statutes such as product liability laws. Countries like Japan, Austria, Germany and Switzerland have already done away with the cap on liability. India is asking future victims to make do with a little compensation from their own tax money Austria, through a 1999 law, additionally opened up liability to suppliers and service providers. None of these countries have ratified any of the international conventions relating to liability because these laws do not adequately address victims’ needs. India’s liability bill is likely to be modeled after a draft prepared by FICCI’s nuclear task force, comprising key beneficiaries namely NPCIL, Tata, Reliance, Larsen & Toubro and Gammon India. Strangely, all this talk about disaster liability, and the normal tone in which these discussions are being held hides a sinister possibility: That despite all assurances given by India’s nuclear proponents that a nuclear disaster will not happen, the fact is that the nuclear industry is already negotiating to cut its losses in the event of a such a calamity. Private industries want the business, but don’t want to bear the risks. The Indian nuclear establishment wants the technology, even if it means exposing Indians to the risk of being hurt by a nuclear disaster. Even worse, it is asking future victims to make do with what little compensation may be on offer from their own tax money in order to ensure that private equipment suppliers are not inconvenienced. If these are the costs, is nuclear power even worth it? *Jayaraman is a journalist and activist volunteering with the International Campaign for Justice in Bhopal* *WRITER’S EMAIL* nity68 at gmail.com *From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 30, Dated August 01, 2009* Print this story Feedback Add to favorites Email this story UP Congress head arrested By A Special Correspondent Read>> HS Sabharwal case takes darker turn By Divya Gupta Section 377 Amended In Favour Of Gay Sex By Sabika Muzaffar Ganguly honoured by Lancashire University By Tara Menon More Stories>> About Us | Who’s Who at Tehelka| Advertise With Us | Print Subscriptions| Syndication | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy| Feedback| Contact Us | Bouquets & Brickbats Tehelka.com is a part of Anant Media Pvt. Ltd. © 2000 - 2009 All rights reserved From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 04:25:05 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 04:25:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Article series continues......... Message-ID: Dear all After reading this article, I have lost all sense of hope momentarily (if not totally). Therefore, nothing more to state from what I stated. From anger, I have just turned to a state of despair, futility and sadness. Anyways, please do go through the article as well. Regards Rakesh Article: Home | Current Affairs | Opinion | Business | Engaged Circle | Culture & Society | | Web Specials | Interact | Archives Saturday, 1 August 2009 Advertise With Us| | *TEHELKA INITIATIVES:* Critical Futures | Tehelka Foundation *From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 31, Dated August 08, 2009* *ENGAGED CIRCLE* *education* *Blackboard Jungle* *The Right to Education Bill must return to the drawing board if it is to make a difference, says **AMIT KAUSHIK* THE PASSING OF THE Right of Children to Free and Compulsory Education Bill, 2008, on July 20 this year, a full seven years after the 86th Amendment to the Constitution stipulated that “the State shall provide free and compulsory education to all children of the age of six to fourteen years in such manner as the State may, by law, determine”, should have been an occasion to celebrate. But both public participation in the drafting process and the Bill as it has been passed leave much to be desired. [image: image] *Alphabet soup* The 2008 Education Bill is a diluted version of the 2005 draft** *Photo: *S RADHAKRISHNA Unlike other fundamental rights, the right to education conferred on children by the 86th Amendment is conditional upon the enactment of a subordinate legislation, and for seven years several versions of this legislation were drafted and debated, while the Amendment itself was never notified. The Bill now introduced in Parliament is a watered-down version of the draft Right to Education Bill, 2005, prepared on the recommendations of a committee of the Central Advisory Board of Education (CABE), chaired by none other than the current Minister for HRD, Mr Kapil Sibal. As a director in the HRD ministry at the time, I was one of those who helped work on the draft, which was prepared by a sub-committee consisting of a former director of the National Council for Educational Research and Training (NCERT), two members from the National University of Educational Planning and Administration, an occasional representative from NCERT, two NGO/activist members, and two officials of the ministry (including myself). The final draft of the Bill that we prepared was discussed in a CABE meeting in July 2005, but was never actually endorsed or approved by it because many of the members of the larger committee publicly disagreed with its provisions. Except for that CABE meeting, there has been no significant public discussion of the draft Bill. Towards the end of its last term, the UPA government introduced The Right of Children to Free and Compulsory Education Bill, 2008 in the Rajya Sabha so that it would not lapse due to a change in government. This Bill, minus several of the more important provisions of the earlier version, was referred to the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Human Resource Development, with directions to submit its report within 30 days. But none of the Standing Committee’s recommendations (tabled in Parliament on February 18, 2009) have actually been incorporated in the version brought to vote. The Standing Committee itself held only three sessions and had no time to open the matter for a public debate, although written submissions were made to it by various members of the public. When the Bill was passed in the Rajya Sabha, only 54 members were present for voting; according to one newspaper report, 29 of those MPs were from the Opposition! While that may or may not be true, the fact that only a handful of our Members of Parliament considered it worth their while to debate such an important legislation tells its own story about the concern for education in public life. Remarks by most members who spoke were couched in generalities, with no attention to any of the Bill’s significant provisions. Sadly, education is not as ‘sexy’ as expressing concern for the erosion of Indian values brought about by television reality shows like *Sach Ka Saamna.* The Bill will allow children to go from Class I to VII without learning anything The 2008 Bill has been criticised on several grounds. Various reports, including the Annual Status of Education Report 2008 (ASER) facilitated by the NGO Pratham, have already established that learning levels in our schools are poor, with many children in Class V unable to exercise skills they should have learnt in Class II. Combined with the automatic promotion policy, the Bill’s focus on inputs rather than outcomes will ensure that children progress from Class I to VII without necessarily learning anything, making it a right to schooling as opposed to a right to education. (Mr Sibal’s proposal to scrap the Class X exam has been criticised on the same grounds.) To take just one example, the draft Right to Education Bill, 2005, had stipulated that after the commencement of the Act, teachers would be part of a schoolbased cadre, with each teacher being allocated to a particular school without worrying about being transferred subsequently. The 2005 Bill had also provided that their activities in the school would be supervised by the School Management Committee, comprising parents or guardians of children in the school, local representatives, persons engaged in education, etc., who would even be responsible for sanctioning leave, paying salaries, and the like. These provisions had been included respectively to deal with the menace of transfers faced by teachers and to ensure that each community assumed greater responsibility for the local school. Thanks to serious opposition by teachers’ unions, both these provisions have been removed from the Bill recently passed. For our MPs, education is not as ‘sexy’ as concern for the erosion of values by reality TV THE BILL does not effectively provide for accountability at any level of the system, from the teacher to the administrator. Should the State fail to meet its obligations under the Bill, it will not be penalised in any manner, nor will individual government functionaries (unlike in the case of the Right to Information Act, where failure to implement provisions carries with it personal liability for the concerned administrators). No one who understands the idea of India can fail to be moved by the implications of The Right of Children to Free and Compulsory Education Bill, 2008, for the future of India’s children. But for it to be relevant to that future, it needs to be something of which we can all be proud, something that is inclusive and sensitive to the needs of the many sections of society it impacts. This is only possible if we allow for widespread debate that takes into account the many viewpoints that are bound to exist; after seven years of delay, a further 70 days to do so will not compromise this future. Unseemly haste in ramming through this incomplete Bill will only exacerbate the problems that exist, without providing us with the solutions we need. *Kaushik was Director, Ministry of HRD, 2001-2006 and is CEO, Shri Educare* *Writer's Email: * amit.kaushik at sepl.asia *From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 31, Dated August 08, 2009* Print this story Feedback Add to favorites Email this story UP Congress head arrested By A Special Correspondent Read>> HS Sabharwal case takes darker turn By Divya Gupta Section 377 Amended In Favour Of Gay Sex By Sabika Muzaffar Ganguly honoured by Lancashire University By Tara Menon More Stories>> About Us | Who’s Who at Tehelka| Advertise With Us | Print Subscriptions| Syndication | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy| Feedback| Contact Us | Bouquets & Brickbats Tehelka.com is a part of Anant Media Pvt. Ltd. © 2000 - 2009 All rights reserved From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 05:09:25 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 05:09:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Time to stop Muslim & SIMI bashing......though SIMI also needs to look at its ideology instead of becoming a Muslim VHP..... Message-ID: Article: Home | Current Affairs | Opinion | Business | Engaged Circle | Culture & Society | | Web Specials | Interact | Archives Saturday, 1 August 2009 Advertise With Us| | *TEHELKA INITIATIVES:* Critical Futures | Tehelka Foundation *Posted on July 31, 2009* *WEB SPECIAL* *In the Name of SIMI* *Ram Puniyani* In third week of July (2009) Maharashtra police arrested several Muslims in Pusad, Akola and neighboring regions on the charge that they are reviving SIMI under a new name. It is after a fairly long time that one has heard of arrests in the name of SIMI. The earlier cycle of arrest of Muslim youth which was a matter of routine after every blast, Malegaon, Mecca Masjid in Hyderabad, Jaipur and other places was broken with the impeccable proof of Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur’s motor cycle being found in Malegaon. The trace of motorcycle link led to Swami Dayanand Pandey, Lt Col Shrikant Purohit and many others associated with Hindu right wing organizations, offshoots of or inspired by RSS ideology. Society witnessed that after most of the blasts so far, Muslim youth were arrested on the charge of being behind the blasts, were harassed for months and then released for the lack of evidence. This was more or less a routine pattern and it frightened the whole Muslim community to no end. Many a Muslim youths’ careers were crushed due to these reckless and baseless arrests. Many a minority families under went severe problems, were ostracized from their own community once they were dragged into the net on the charges which were guided more by the prevalent biases or stereotypes than any substance. SIMI came to be regarded as the core organization responsible for fomenting trouble through youth. Despite the ban on SIMI in 2001, the Muslim youth kept on being labeled as SIMI activists and were put behind the bar. It’s not to say that SIMI was holding ideology which was talking of democracy and secularism. One knows that SIMI, which began as a student front of Jamat-e-Islami Hind gradually, came out of its control and became radical in the decade of 1990s in particular. Yoginder Sikand, an Islamic scholar of repute gives a very crisp history of this organization ( www.countercurrents.org/comm-sikand150706.htm). SIMI was founded on the ideology propounded by Maulana Maududi, according to whom all non Muslims are kafirs and man made systems like democracy are false and Shariah is the only way. It kept the goal of spreading Islamic consciousness amongst Muslim students and peaceful missionary work amongst non Muslims. Some events in the decade of 1990 were to shape its ideology in a radical and militant direction. These events were Soviet Russia’s invasion of Afghanistan and Islamization of Pakistan in particular. Meanwhile Jamat- e- Islami came to accept democracy and Secularism as its guiding ideology. SIMI came out from the control of its parent organization to talk in a different language. The demolition of Babri Mosque and the post demolition violence gave it a fillip in the negative direction. It said that Democracy has failed to protect Muslims so there is a need for some one like Mohammed Gazni, the destroyer of Somanth. This was also the theme of the poster released by them in the aftermath of Babri demolition. It was alleged that SIMI has links with Sikh and Kashmiri militants. It was alleged that they have links with Osama and ISI. At the same time SIMI claimed that it wants to work through peaceful methods, while the worsening communal situation made it to say that Muslims are a belabored community. Under these circumstances SIMI was banned in 2001. The ban on SIMI was challenged, so a tribunal had to be appointed to review the ban. Ajit Sahi of Tehelka in his painstaking investigation, followed the tribunal’s sitting all through (Tehelka, SIMI Fictions, 12th August 2008), the tribunal did not find any evidence of the charges put against the organization for banning it. The ban could not be upheld. About this investigation Ajit Sahi said, “… his investigation is no dry story rising from lifeless court documents. It has been an emotional rollercoaster to sit across young boys barely into manhood, their foreheads creased by sleepless nights worried stiff over the jailing of a father, a brother, wondering endlessly, “Will this end? Is this for real? What do I do now? Where do I go now? Will I survive this?” He further says “as I interviewed countless Muslims, so weathered, I couldn’t but ask myself, What if this was me? What if it was my brother, my father in jail?” With the World scenario tilting against the Islam and Muslims, courtesy the radical Islamists trained in the Madrassas set up in Pakistan with US aid, the popular psyche perceived an average Muslim as a terrorist and police machinery operated on this understanding. Even when scores of lives were shattered and the community came under the intimidation of highest order, the Government did not put any corrective to this pattern of investigation with which police was pursuing its work. Disturbed by this situation two people’s tribunal were set up by the Human Rights groups. The report and recommendations of both the tribunal are similar and overlapping. The first one was headed by Justices (Retd) Bhargava and Sardar Ali Khan, with prominent social activists like Asghar Ali Engineer and Prashant Bhushan as the jury. The testimonies showed that a large number of innocent young Muslims have been and are being victimized by the police on the charge of being involved in various terrorist acts across the country. This is particularly so in Maharashtra, Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh, Andhra Pradesh and Rajasthan, though not limited to these States. This victimization and demonisation of Muslims in the guise of investigation of terror offences, is having a very serious psychological impact on the minds of not only the families of the victims but also other members of the community. It is leading to a very strong sense of insecurity and alienation which may lead to frightful consequences for the nation. The second tribunal set up by different set of organization s of Rajasthan worked under the leadership of Justice (Retd) Bhargava. One of it pertinent observation was that the police authorities investigating the terror offences appear to be violating all the laws of the land and directions of the Supreme Court during the conduct of the investigations. In particular, many persons have been detained for days or weeks, without showing them to be arrested and without producing them before any Magistrate. They have been sometimes tortured and humiliated by the police officers. They have not been allowed to meet their relatives and lawyers, who have often not even been informed of their detention. The investigation of the blasts by the police also appears to be communally motivated and only persons belonging to the Muslim community have been the target of the investigations. The names of HUJI and SIMI have been bandied about by the police as the perpetrators of the blasts without any evidence. A number of former members of SIMI have been arrested and detained without any basis or evidence against them. The media has also been uncritically repeating and amplifying the baseless allegations and innuendoes of the police mentioning persons and organizations belonging to the Muslim community, thus resulting in ethnic profiling and feeding into the Islamophobia being sought to be created and reinforced in the minds of the Hindu community by the Hindutva organizations. In Jaipur this has resulted in the vilification of the entire Bengali Muslim community who has been victimized by the Hindutva organizations in complicity with the police. Thousands of them have been picked up after the blasts and forcibly transported to New Jalpaiguri and then Bangladesh without any due process of law and without giving them an opportunity to show their Indian Citizenship. This has resulted in the ethnic cleansing of Jaipur. One does not know with what seriousness the administration looks at these people’s tribunal, the fact is they have put forward profound realities of the society. It is imperative that the Government takes a serious look at these reports and instructs the investigation authorities to be more professional in their approach and sheds its biases while dealing with minority community. *Posted on July 31, 2009* Print this story Feedback Add to favorites Email this story UP Congress head arrested By A Special Correspondent Read>> HS Sabharwal case takes darker turn By Divya Gupta Section 377 Amended In Favour Of Gay Sex By Sabika Muzaffar Ganguly honoured by Lancashire University By Tara Menon More Stories>> About Us | Who’s Who at Tehelka| Advertise With Us | Print Subscriptions| Syndication | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy| Feedback| Contact Us | Bouquets & Brickbats Tehelka.com is a part of Anant Media Pvt. Ltd. © 2000 - 2009 All rights reserved From asad_abbasi at hotmail.com Sun Aug 2 05:52:58 2009 From: asad_abbasi at hotmail.com (asad abbasi) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 00:22:58 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] System is to blame for the 22 wealthy families Message-ID: Dear All, Although Dr. Mahbub ul Haq wrote this piece many many years ago, I wonder how much of this is true of Pakistan even now. They say there is democracy in that country, they say it's a rule of people. Is it not a sad and a pathetic reflection of our times that a bunch of clans still claim power as if others do not exist? Warm regards Asad http://www.mhhdc.org/html/speeches.htm System is to blame for the 22 wealthy families (Article published in 'The London Times', March 22, 1973) Five years ago I made a speech alleging that 22 industrial family groups had come to dominate the economic and financial life of Pakistan and that they controlled about two-thirds of industrial assets, 80 per cent of banking and 79 percent insurance. At that time, Pakistan was still living through a period of great euphoria. President Ayub was completing his tenth term in office and the country was cheerfully celebrating his first decade of development. Pakistan had undoubtedly done extremely well economically under President Ayub’s pragmatic leadership and almost all key economic indicators pointed to a fast rate of expansion. The growth rate in the gross national product had been nearly 6 per cent a year for a decade and a healthy export performance of 8 per cent a year had defied many predictions. However, some of us who were living closely with the economic management of the country had already begun to develop our doubts about the long-term viability of such a pattern of growth. While the world was still applauding Pakistan as a model of development – since outside donors always need some success stories for their own comfort – we were getting quite concerned that all was not well with the distribution of benefits of growth. Some of the indices were fairly disturbing. The real disparity in the per capita incomes of East and West Pakistan had more than doubled during this decade even though we were reluctant to admit it publicly. The real wages of the industrial workers, concentrated in a few key urban areas had been reduced by about a third by a combination of inflation and weak bargaining power of the unions. Personal income inequalities had increased substantially. It was evident that most people had remained unaffected by the forces of economic change since the development had fast become warped in favour of a privileged minority. One can best illustrate this imbalance by looking at the distribution of certain public and private services. From 1958 to1968 Pakistan imported or domestically assembled private cars worth $300 million while spending only $20 million on buses. During the same period, about 80 per cent to 90 per cent of private construction can only be described as luxury housing. It was in these circumstances that I tried to focus national attention on justice in the distribution of wealth in the midst of celebration over a rapid rate of growth. I say this with no desire for self-vindication because I recall how painful a decision it was. I was chief economist of the National Planning Commission and much of what I had to say was an indictment of the economic policies of the Government during a period in which I was intimately associated with planned development. It was little surprise to me that the mention of 22 families in that atmosphere was treated as a bombshell, both by a stunned Government and by the private sector in Pakistan. It is most annoying to question success right in the midst of it. What surprises me, however, is that in the past five years there has been so little analysis of the basic issues inherent in Pakistan’s industrial and economic situation and so little action despite all the hysteria about the 22 families. This has been disappointing because references to 22 families should only be treated as symbolic of the basic problems of income distribution and social justice in Pakistan. A myth has spread by now that the 22 families own all the wealth in Pakistan. This is simply not true. The problem must be viewed in its proper perspective. The modern industrial sector was, at most, 10 per cent of the national product of Pakistan in 1968 (including East Pakistan) and now is about 15 per cent of the national product of West Pakistan. Even if the 22 families control two-thirds of the industrial assets in the modern sector – and the word is control, not own – it still represents a rather limited control over total wealth in Pakistan. The distinction, unfortunately, was lost in the heated discussions of the past five years. What is more, it was not so much the concentration of income and wealth in the hands of a few industrial family groups which raised fundamental questions of policy. Such a concentration was probably inevitable in the initial stages of development and to give them their due, the early entrepreneurs did an excellent job of rapid industrialization. What gave us real cause for anxiety was the growing collusion between industrial and financial interests so that a few family groups had come to acquire control over basic economic decision making. For all practical purposes, the 22 families had become by 1968 both the planning commission and the ministry of finance for the private sector. They preempted most investment permits, import licenses, foreign credits and government patronage because they controlled or influenced most of the decision-making forums handing out such permissions. They had virtually established a stranglehold on the system and were in a position to keep out any new entrepreneurs. The 22 families were a by-product of government policies and a primitive capitalistic system. The Government did not have the courage to change the company law of 1913 under which the industrial sector of Pakistan was still being governed in 1968. This antiquated framework of capitalism permitted the industrial sector to have managing agencies, cartels, trusts and all other anti-social practices aimed at cheating both the consumer and the Government, The latter became both a conscious and unconscious ally of the private industrialists by giving them generous protection, excessive tax concessions, explicit and hidden subsidies, and representation on many decision making forums. If we are to evaluate properly the role of the 22 families in Pakistan, we must see it in the perspective of the capitalist system that the country has evolved over time. In blunt terms, Pakistan’s capitalist system is still one of the most primitive in the world. Under it economic feudalism prevails. A handful of people, whether landlords or industrialists or bureaucrats, make all the basic decisions and the system often works simply because there is an alliance between various vested interests. Unfortunately, most of the criticism of the 22 families in the past five years has been directed to individual family groups rather than to the reform of the basic framework of capitalism. The present Government has introduced some limited reforms by abolishing the managing agency system and introducing a more progressive labour policy as well as by taking away management though not ownership, of certain key industries. However, these are rather small patches on a thoroughly rotten fabric of a primitive and feudal economic system. What is required is a fairly drastic surgery if a move towards a more enlightened and socially responsible capitalism is to be made. Pakistan badly needs to broaden the base of its economic and political power to evolve a development strategy that reaches out to the bulk of the population; and to innovate a new lifestyle which is more consistent with its own poverty and its stage of development. This is not going to be easy because in the past, modernization was foisted on a basically feudal structure in which political participation was often denied, growth of responsible institutions stifled and free speech curbed, and where all economic and political power gravitated towards a small minority. There is not much that can be done to save development from being warped in favour of a few in a system like this unless the basic premises of the system are changes. The new constituency of peasants, labour and students that President Bhutto hopes to fashion has still not taken shape. Unless there is such a new constituency, unless the existing power structure is drastically shaken, there is not much of a mandate or instrument available for radical change. The slogan of 22 families, therefore, has been rather overdone in Pakistan and taken too literally, At times, it has become a convenient camouflage for action against a few individual industrialists rather than reforming the economic, as well as social and political institutions. This is sad because the 22 families are a symptom, not a cause. The basic problem is not the 22 families, individually or collectively, but the system that created them, And it is time that Pakistan looked to the basic causes of its problems and not merely to the symptoms. _________________________________________________________________ Celebrate a decade of Messenger with free winks, emoticons, display pics, and more. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/ From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 10:47:56 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 10:47:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Another plot to target Amarnath yatra foiled Message-ID: <6353c690908012217n215f6967p23f2ddd882dd08c0@mail.gmail.com> *Another plot to target yatra foiled* Excelsior Correspondent *POONCH, Aug 1: *Yet another plot by Hizbul Mujahideen militant outfit to target ongoing Budda Amarnath yatra in this district has been foiled by Army and police with the recovery of a large quantity of arms and explosives including 20 kg RDX. This was second plot of Hizbul Mujahideen which has been thwarted by Army and police to attack Budda Amarnath yatris in Mandi belt in less than a week. Official sources said a joint team of 8 Mahar and Poonch police launched a search operation in Sabjian forests of this border district after developing a specific information that militants of Hizbul Mujahideen outfit had dumped a large quantity of arms and explosives in the forests to target Budda Amarnath yatra, which had been going on smoothly for last about one week. During searches, security forces came across a make shift hide-out of the militants and destroyed it. From the hide-out, police recovered 20 kg deadly RDX explosive, two AK-47 rifles, one Pika gun, one pistol, 20 Chinese grenades, two Rocket Propelled Guns (RPGs), 136 Pika bullets, 44 AK rounds, one mobile phone, one battery charger, one buoynet, one pouch, a large bag and some documents of Hizbul Mujahideen outfit. After effecting the recoveries, Army and police launched a search operation for the militants in Sabjian forests. However, no arrests were made from the area but possibility of militants’ presence in the forests has not been ruled out. Searches were still on in the area. Only few days back, Army and police had recovered a large quantity of explosive material from Mandi forests which too had been dumped by Hizbul Mujahideen outfit to target Budda Amarnath yatris. Budda Amarnath yatra in this district had begun last week and will conclude on the occasion of Raksha Bandhan. Security forces and police have made tight security arrangements for Budda Amarnath yatris at the holy shrine as well as the route taken by the pilgrims. Intercepts have also revealed that the militants of Hizbul Mujahideen outfit were planning to target Budda Amarnath yatris. However, their all attempts have been foiled due to the alertness displayed by Army and police in the routes surrounding Budda Amarnath yatra. Following recovery of 20 kg RDX and 20 powerful grenades besides other arms and ammunition, security at Budda Amarnath shrine and the route taken by the pilgrims has been further intensified, sources said. From b_a_r_u_k at yahoo.com Sun Aug 2 10:52:52 2009 From: b_a_r_u_k at yahoo.com (Baruk S. Jacob) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 22:22:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Murder In Plain Sight In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <598061.83130.qm@web54201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> _leave_us_our_hills_ goddamn you chinky rebel fools (who water these hills with our blood) goddamn you indian army goons (who water these hills with our blood) leave us alone, you bastards, leave to eat and sing and dance and sleep a quiet meal a happy song a drunken dance and sleep. deep. without constant, constant, constant memories of your goddamn guns. and bloody countries. leave us our hills. leave. all you bastards, leave. ~baruk [http://bottlebroke.blogspot.com] > *Murder In Plain Sight* > > *In Manipur, death comes easy. In this damning sequence of > photos, a local > photographer captures the death of a young man, killed in a > false encounter > by the police in broad daylight, 500 metres from the state > assembly. How can > a State justify such a war against its own people, asks > **TERESA REHMAN* >    *1. Chongkham Sanjit, 27, is seen > standing in a PCO with the Manpur > Police > Commandos adjacent to a pharmacy (marked by an arrow)in > Imphal on July 23 * > *2. Though surrounded by commandos, there is no obvious > resistance from > Sanjit (marked by a red circle) * > > IF ANY picture can speak a thousand words, these photos — > available > exclusively to TEHELKA — could fill volumes. They capture > a shootout that > happened in the heart of Imphal, Manipur’s capital, > barely 500 metres from > the state assembly, on July 23. They show the moments > before, during and > after the ‘encounter killing’ of a 27-year-old Indian > citizen – a young man > called Chongkham Sanjit, shot dead by a heavily-armed > detachment from > Manipur’s Rapid Action Police Force, commonly known as > the Manipur Police > Commandos (MPC). > > There is a grotesque and brutal history to the bullets that > killed this > young man. For years, decades even, security forces in > Manipur have faced > allegations of human rights violations and extrajudicial > murders committed > under cover of the draconian Armed Forces Special Powers > Act (AFSPA). In > 2000, Irom Sharmila, stirred by the gunning down of 10 > civilians, including > an 18-year-old National Child Bravery Award winner, by the > Assam Rifles, > started a hunger fast — that lasts to this day — in > protest against the > AFSPA. In July 2004, the nation was rocked by the protests > of a group of > Manipuri women who marched to an Assam Rifles base in > Imphal, stripped naked > and raised a searing banner: “Indian Army Rape Us”. > They were protesting the > rape, torture and murder, a fortnight earlier, of Thangjam > Manorama, 32, who > was picked up from her home at night by the Assam Rifles. > > Manipur rose up in protest that day, and in August 2004, > the Centre > relented, withdrawing the AFSPA from Imphal’s municipal > zone. > ‘Post-Manorama,’ as history is marked in Manipur, the > army has taken a > backseat, withdrawing outside the municipality. However, > life in Manipur is > still lived on the tightrope. In a seemingly new > counter-insurgency > strategy, the MPC has unleashed a reign of terror in the > state. > > *PAST INCIDENTS* > > *NOVEMBER, 2008: > SALAM AJIT SINGH* > Singh, 30, was allegedly killed by the Imphal West Police > Commandos and 39 > Assam Rifles on November 7, 2008. Singh ran a taxi service. > In January 2009 > his family filed a petition with the National Human Rights > Commission (NHRC) > > *DECEMBER, 2008: > MD TASLIUMUDDIN* > Tasliumuddin, 20, a daily wage labourer, was allegedly > killed in an > ‘encounter’ by the Imphal West Police Commandos and 32 > Assam Rifles on > December 30, 2008. The NHRC has registered a case > > *DECEMBER 2008: > OKRAM RANJIT SINGH > * Singh, 27, a brick mason was allegedly killed in an > ‘encounter’ by the > Imphal West Police Commandos and 12 Maratha Light Infantry > on December 22, > 2008 in Imphal West district. The family has filed a > petition with the NHRC > > *JANUARY 2009: > LAISHRAM DIPSON* > Dipson, 28, was allegedly killed by the Imphal West Police > Commandos and 39 > Assam Rifles on January 12, 2009 at Laingam Khul. The lorry > driver’s family > has filed a police complaint > > *JANUARY 2009: > NINGTHOUJAM ANAND* > The 30-year-old auto rickshaw driver was allegedly killed > by the Imphal West > Police Commandos and 16 Assam Rifles on January 21, 2009. A > complaint has > been filed with the NHRC > > The organisation known as the Manipur Police Commandos > (MPC) was first set > up in 1979 as the Quick Striking Force (QSF). Former > Inspector General of > Police, Thangjam Karunamaya Singh told TEHELKA, “They > were trained for > special operations. But the men had strict instructions. > They were told to > fire only when fired upon and pay special attention to the > needs of women, > children and the elderly. If they arrested somebody on > suspicion, they had > to take responsibility for their security,” stated > Singh. > > The MPC does not fall under the AFSPA but has now become > notorious across > the state. It operates only in the four districts of > Manipur – Imphal East, > Imphal West, Thoubal and Bishnupur. The MPC is housed in > isolated commando > barracks and has minimal contact with the general > population, though its > personnel are all locals. > > Extra-judicial killings, and, in particular, fake > encounters by the MPC have > become common in Manipur. In 2008, there were 27 recorded > cases of torture > and killing attributed to the MPC. Where once they > conducted ‘encounters’ in > isolated places, they now do not think twice before > operating in cities, in > broad daylight, as they did on July 23. In several > incidents, innocent > civilians carrying money and valuables have been robbed and > sometimes > killed. In some cases official action has been taken > against commandos for > misconduct. For instance, in July 2009, five police > commandos who had > reportedly robbed three youths were suspended. But for the > most part, their > extra-judicial activity goes scot free. > > According to the official version of Sanjit’s encounter > death at 10:30am on > July 23, a team of MPC personnel was conducting frisking > operations in > Imphal’s Khwairamband Keithel market. They saw a > suspicious youth coming > from the direction of the Uripok locality. When asked to > stop, the version > goes, the youth suddenly pulled out a gun and ran away, > firing at the public > in a bid to evade the police. > > The official record states that the youth was finally > cornered inside Maimu > Pharmacy near Gambhir Singh Shopping Arcade. He was asked > to surrender. > Instead, he fired at the police. The police retaliated and > the youth was > killed. The account states that a 9mm Mauser pistol was > “recovered”. The > youth was identified from his driver’s license as > Chongkham Sanjit, son of > Chongkham Khelson of Kongpal Sajor Leikai, Manipur. > > Usually, such official versions of encounters are difficult > to disprove > though everyone may know them to be false. But in an almost > unprecedented > coincidence, in Sanjit’s case, a local photographer > rushed to the scene and > managed to shoot a minute-by-minute account of the alleged > ‘encounter’. The > photographs (shown in preceding pages) clearly reveal that, > contrary to the > official version, Sanjit was, in fact, standing calmly as > the police > commandos frisked him and spoke to him. He was escorted > inside the storeroom > of the pharmacy. He was shot point blank inside and his > dead body was > brought out. The photographer, fearing for his safety, does > not dare publish > these pictures in Manipur. > The photographs clearly reveal that contrary to the > official version, > Sanjit was standing calmly as the MPC commandos frisked > him > > Eyewitness accounts partly corroborate the police version > — except their > account is obviously about a young man other than Sanjit. > These witnesses > state that a youth did escape from a police frisking party > about a hundred > metres away from where Sanjit was killed. The police chased > this youth and > opened fire, killing an innocent bystander, Rabina Devi — > who was pregnant > at the time — and injuring five other civilians. > Afterwards, the police > showed the media a 9mm Mauser pistol which they alleged was > thrown away by > the militant before he fled. After about half an hour, the > police claimed to > have killed the youth who escaped from their hands “in an > encounter”; > according to them, this youth was Sanjit. The photographs > clearly indicate > otherwise. > > The police claim Sanjit was a member of the People’s > Liberation Army (PLA), > a proscribed insurgent outfit. Chief Minster Okram Ibobi > Singh also made a > controversial statement in the assembly that day, asserting > that there was > no other alternative but to kill insurgents. > > Sanjit was indeed a former PLA cadre. He was arrested in > 2000 but freed. In > 2006, he retired from the outfit on health grounds. In > 2007, though, he was > detained again under the NSA and was only released a year > later. Since then, > he had been staying with his family at his home at Khurai > Kongpal Sajor > Leikai and had been working as an attendant in a private > hospital. > > But even if Sanjit was a former militant, he should not > have have been > killed in a false encounter. The photos show him talking to > his killers, > calmly, without offering any resistance. He was frisked > moments before the > shootout. He was not an insurgent on the run. In fact, > Sanjit had to make > periodic appearances before the Court, a requirement that > the Court later > lifted. “Legally speaking, Sanjit was a free man,” says > M Rakesh, a lawyer > at the Gauhati High Court’s Imphal Bench. There are also > significant > inconsistencies in the police versions of the recovery of > the weapon. First, > they said it was flung away by the fleeing militant. Then > they said it was > recovered from Sanjit after the encounter. As the photos > show, Sanjit was > ushered into the pharmacy, not chased in. Also, if Sanjit > was, in fact, > armed with the 9mm Mauser, why wasn’t it found during the > frisking? Why, as > the photos show, was he taken inside the storeroom? > First the police said the pistol was flung away by the > fleeing militant. > Then they said it was recovered from Sanjit after the > encounter > > The law says if a death is caused by state forces in an > encounter which > cannot be justified by Section 46 of the Criminal Procedure > Code, the > officer causing the death would be guilty of culpable > homicide. In this > case, only a rigorous investigation can establish what > exactly transpired. > Instead of instituting a judicial enquiry, however, the > state government is > setting up a departmental enquiry, which is unlikely to > yield any justice to > the victims’ families. Sanjit’s family claims he had > broken his earlier > links with the militants and was leading a normal life. > They say he had gone > out that day to buy medicines for his uncle, who is > undergoing treatment at > Imphal’s JN Hospital. Says Sanjit’s mother, Inaotombi > Devi, “Life is very > cheap in Manipur.” > > Manipur is routinely roiled by such devastating narratives. > Ex-MLA > 78-yearold Sarat Singh Loitongbam’s son Satish Singh was > killed by the armed > forces. Though a devout Hindu, he refuses to perform his > son’s last rites > until his name is cleared of wrongdoing. Like Satish, there > is Ningombam > Gopal Singh, a 39- year-old Grade-IV employee at the Imphal > Bench of the > Gauhati High Court, a man who was chatting over tea with > women at a hotel > when he was dragged off by men in plainclothes, to be shot > dead in an > ‘encounter’. There is 24-year-old Elangbam Johnson > Singh, a student and > part-time salesman, picked up by the MPC while out with a > friend and killed > in an encounter, his corpse at the morgue bearing signs of > torture. Stories > like these are a grotesque lattice in Manipur. “Life in > Manipur,” as one > observer puts it, “is like a lottery. You are alive > because you are lucky.” > > *WRITER’S EMAIL* > teresa at tehelka.com > > *From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 31, Dated August 08, > 2009* From bawazainab79 at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 11:56:23 2009 From: bawazainab79 at gmail.com (Zainab Bawa) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 11:56:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] On Delhi In-Reply-To: <537327.23275.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <4A7414A5.8090504@ranadasgupta.com> <537327.23275.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Rana, Thanks for posting your piece on the reader-list. I read it a few days ago and was very disturbed. Your essay, coupled with a few experiences in the days preceeding to my reading of your essay, lead me to question the notion of "city". I want to initiate a discussion along this lines and on tangents related. On first reading of your piece, the picture of Delhi that I got was of this dark, gory, vulgar monster. The city appeared like this abyss, this morass, in which you just sink. I am not in denial of the incidents and some of the trends that you have described and explained in your piece. I am wondering about how we are constructing narratives of the city. The issue of how we narrate the city has been of particular concern to me in recent times because I think that the manner in which we describe the city and the experience of the city has serious repercussions for the city itself - dark, gory city and subsequently, the practice of the city as this dangerous space which you do not venture out in the nights or certain nooks and crannies of the city that you cannot go to because you perceive them to be dangerous. About 5 years ago, I had organized night walks during the month of Ramzaan in Bombay where we would walk in the night through areas like Dongri, Bhendi Bazaar, Nagpada, Foras Road and all the alleys and nooks that we otherwise don't visit. On two of the three walks I organized, the people who came told me how they have never visited Dongri earlier, even though they have been resident in the city for many years, because of the fear that Dongri is this place where people roam around with knives and swords and a riot happens at the drop of the hat. One reason for this perception of Dongri is the way in which the area has been projected in films, in writing and even in the narratives of the 1992-93 riots. I think about Delhi and how I used to hate being in Delhi during my initial visits. I was told that Delhi is a city of thugs and that everyone is out to loot you. My own behaviour towards auto drivers was subsequently conditioned by this perception. Delhi always appeared as this dangerous city in which I will be looted at any moment and so, I was always on my guard. At some point, as I frequently visited the city and lived in different neighbourhoods and areas, more out of compulsions and accidents rather than choice, and then I discovered my own Delhi - the hustle bustle at Tees Hazari bus stand and other bus stations where people are flowing in and out like water, the experience of refugee friends from Burma who hated the city and rightfully so for the attitude of the Delhiites towards them, the affluence of South Delhi, and a particular warmth and comfort of Old Delhi which really made me love the city despite all my antagonisms and anguish. It is these varied aspirations, and often times very contradictory and ambiguous desires and aspirations, that prevail among different people in the city that I am now seeking to know and narrate. I think back of my own writings on Bombay between 2003 and 2006 and how I have lost not only my words, but also my romance with the city following my move to Bangalore. I lived Bombay and loved it through the very mundane acts of living. I talked to people who had stories to tell that not only intrigued me about their lives, but also got me to think of the city, of aspiration, of desires and how people invest themselves in the city. After the move to Bangalore, my engagements in Bangalore with groups and individuals who were fighting about a city (perceived) to be lost and a city emerging from the ruins and the ghosts of the devastated present into a dark and dilapidated future, shaped a good deal of my own understanding of cities. I have subsequently lost my relationships with both Bangalore and Bombay. It is only now, through acts such as eating food with friends who live in rehabilitation housing and squatter settlements in Mumbai, listening to their everyday experiences of the city, that I am reconstructing my own self and my relationship with Bombay. The reconstruction is continuously confronted with anxities and fears about a city that is losing itself to "capital". And yet, the stories I come across each day, remind me that we are all invested in this capital and more so in the city. We are invested in the city through our emotions, aspirations, desires, hatred, anxieties and we are embedded in the capital, in different ways. I feel like owning a car now because I see that as the only way in which I can attain my freedom in Bangalore and move around the city at nights - a city with dismal public transport and with its citizens living in a certain fear of the night as a time in the life of the everyday city which is unsafe. I am invested in the trajectories of capital, in the city and the production and reproduction of space in the city in ways such as these. I apologize if my thoughts are too rambling and not totally coherent. But I am really thinking about whether we have lost the romance with the city and whether the loss is really real and whether now is a moment when we think about cities and how we tell stories. And I don't mean to ask this question in a sense of drawing any binaries between the dark, vulgar capitalist city and the mundane, everyday life of the city laced with figures and characters who are either beyond the reach of capital or who will be put to death by the noose of capital. I am really asking for a serious rethinking of narratives and how these narratives lead us to not only tell the city, but also to imagine and practice the city and for our own relationships with our own cities (whether these are places or non-places or homes or destinations or spaces of demolition, eviction, violence ...). ... Still thoughtful, (mildly nostalgic about my Tees Hazari bus station which is my relationship with Delhi), and in a spirit of conversation, Zainab -- Zainab Bawa Ph.D. Student and Independent Researcher Gaining Ground ... http://zainab.freecrow.org http://cis-india.org/research/cis-raw/histories-of-the-internet/transparency-and-politics From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 12:42:52 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 12:42:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 4 Message-ID: Dear all The credit for sending this press release goes to Aashish, my friend. Thanking him through the list for sending this, I put this up on this list. Regards Rakesh Press Release: *Ministry of Women and Child Development* ** ** Universalisation of ICDS to check malnutrition ------------------------------ *16:31 IST * *LOK SABHA* The Government has recently taken various steps which include universalisation of the Scheme with special focus on SC/ST and minority habitations, revision in cost norms as well as the Nutritional and Feeding norms of the Supplementary Nutrition component of ICDS. In addition, Government has also introduced provision of flexi fund at Anganwadi Centre level and new World Health Organization (WHO) Growth Standards for growth monitoring. This was informed by Minister of State in the Ministry of Women & Child Development, Smt. Krishna Tirath in a written reply to a question in Lok Sabha today. She further said that the problem of malnutrition is a multi-dimensional and inter-generational in nature which needs to be tackled through holistic coordinated interventions in areas of food security, sanitation, safe drinking water, nutrition, family welfare and poverty alleviation. The Ministry of Women and Child Development is addressing the problem of under nutrition in children below six years through the Integrated Child Development Services (ICDS) Scheme in all States/UTs. The ICDS provides a package of six services namely supplementary nutrition. ***** NCJ/SR From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 12:52:20 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 12:52:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 4 Message-ID: INDIA TOGETHER Sun 02 Aug 2009 The news in proportion. NEWSLETTER DIGITAL EDITION PLEASE CONTRIBUTE HOME OPINIONS *INTERACT* * * *ABOUT US* * * SUPPORT *SEARCH* * * OP-ED [image: Opinions] Opinions Editorials Guests Interviews Talks RSS Feeds SERVICES Advertise Contact Us Newsletter Submit OPINION: FOOD SECURITY * Food for all? Not through the NFSA. * The National Food Security Act proposes to lower ration prices, but also reduce the quantity of grain that is given to each family. Devinder Sharma suggests a Zero Hunger programme instead. • Write the author • Devinder Sharma • Food security • Send to a friend • Printer friendly version *17 July 2009* - When Atal Bihari Vajpayee for the first time unfurled the national flag from the ramparts of the Red Fort in New Delhi, he promised to turn the infamous Kalahandi hunger belt in western Orissa into a food bowl. If only Vajpayee had made a serious attempt to wipe out hunger from Kalahandi, and follow it up with a nationwide programme to feed the hungry millions, the BJP wouldn't have been in a pitiable condition it now finds itself in. And when President Pratibha Patil reiterated the government's resolve to bring in a National Food Security Act in a bid to provide every hungry family with 25 kg of foodgrains priced at Rs.3 a kilo, I certainly felt excited. After all, 62 years after Independence, the government finally makes a promise to feed the hungry nation. For the 320 million who are officially categorised as hungry, nothing could be more heartening. And for another 600 million, who are able to spend less than Rs.20 a day, there appeared to be some hope. And with the new government barely in the saddle, mandarins in the Food and Agriculture Ministry and in the Planning Commission have swung into action, working overtime to give shape to the promise made by Congress in its election manifesto. But if what I read in the newspapers is any indication, I now have all the reasons to be worried, rather than excited. If the early signs continue, there will be little hope for the hungry; instead they will continue to live and die in hunger. What pains me is to learn that even the Right to Food campaign, which has fought several battles to ensure that food reaches the poor, is not thinking beyond the PDS to address the real causes of hunger. There is no reason for the civil society to shy away from the onerous task by saying that we have to only take care of entitlements. I can understand the government trying to say so, but that a section of the civil society is also trying to behave like the government is something that does not auger well for the poor and hungry. *Modelled on failure* Home to the world's largest hungry population, India has a record on hunger that is worse than that of nearly 25 sub-Saharan African countries. India is ranked 66th among 88 vulnerable countries in the Global Hunger Index prepared by the International Food Policy Research institute, and none of its States is categorised under 'low hunger' or 'moderate hunger category'. And let us not forget, the abysmally low ranking of India in the Global Hunger Index is despite the PDS. The scheme caters to 65 million families *below the poverty line* (BPL) and 115 million other families *above the poverty line* (APL), and is supposed to act as a safety net for the vulnerable sections of our society. If the PDS had been even partially effective, there should have been no reason for Punjab to be ranked below Gabon, Honduras and Vietnam. • Starvation persists in Orissa • Hunger affects attendance If you consider each family to comprise on average five persons, the PDS - on paper - meets the food requirement of 900 million people. If this is true, I see no reason why the country should have the largest population of hungry in the world. If the PDS had been even partially effective, there should have been no reason for Punjab - and for that matter Kerala, the best performing States in terms of hunger - to be ranked below Gabon, Honduras and Vietnam. Extending the same failed PDS to more families, or introducing a revamped PDS is therefore unlikely to make any meaningful difference to the plight of the hungry and malnourished. But this is precisely what the new National Food Security Act (NFSA) proposes to do. Modelled along the lines of the National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme, the Act does not see beyond the 'rights' of the poor, and is more or less blind to whether these rights are being protected by government schemes. The success of the NREGS itself is still debatable; we all know is mired in corruption and large-scale siphoning-off of funds intended for the unemployed poor. But that has not stopped the NFSA from being drawn on more or less on the same pattern. On the price and quantity fronts too, the proposal is weak. At present, the government provides 35 kg of food grains, including wheat and rice, to 65.2 million families classified as living *below the poverty line* (BPL). These subsidised rations are made available at a price of Rs 4.15 per kg for wheat and Rs 5.65 per kg for rice. For the 24.3 million families classified under the Antyodya scheme (also part of the BPL category), the price of these grains is further reduced to Rs.2 for wheat and Rs.3 for rice. Thus, what the NFSA proposes is to provide the grains at an even lower price than in the past, but *also in the process reduce the quantity of grain that is given through the subsidy*. By reducing the quantum of grains given, the National Food Security Act would therefore entail less financial burden on the government by an estimated Rs.5000 crores. And the food requirement would be drastically reduced from the existing 27 million tonnes to about 20 million tonnes, and the annual subsidy outgo would also be lowered. It surely is a win-win situation for the government. But how is this going to make an already underfed people able to eat more? That goal, it now appears, will remain a dream. *Zero Hunger* Feeding the vulnerable sections, and that too in a sustained manner on long-term basis, is only possible if the government evolves what I call a Zero Hunger programme. I suggest a 5-point programme to ensure Zero Hunger: - Revive agriculture on the lines of sustainability, by restoring soil health and the natural resource base by bringing in low-external-input, sustainable farming practices. - Provide farmers with a fixed monthly income, incorporating the minimum support price. For the poorest of the poor households receiving micro-finance, ensure that the interest rate is reduced from the existing 18-48 per cent to a maximum of 4 per cent. - Disband PDS except for food entitlements for the Antyodya families. Replace this with Foodgrain Banks at the village level on the lines of the traditional gola system of food security still existing in Bihar and east India. - Export of foodgrains should be allowed only when the country's total population is adequately fed. - International trade, including Free Trade Agreements, should not be allowed to play havoc with domestic agriculture and food security. All of this is possible, provided the political leadership demonstrates a vision to redesign agriculture, food processing, rural development, international trade and food security in an integrated manner. *⊕* *Devinder Sharma* 17 Jul 2009 * Devinder Sharma is a food and trade policy analyst. He also chairs the New Delhi-based Forum for Biotechnology & Food Security. * • Write the author • Post a comment on this article • Devinder Sharma • Food security • Reprint permissions *Comments* (2) - Posted by Srinivasa Ravuri , Who pays for Food subsidy ? Ever since the (re)-introduction of the Rs. 2 kg-(that too slightly or the so called partially edible rice!) in some states, the price of fine-rice has shot-up to Rs. 40-a kilo. So who is paying for the subsidy?---not ceratinly the govt. - Posted by Nilima Basu , I appreciated atleast 3 recommendations.1)fixed income for farmers2)4% interest for those BPL,who are receiving micro-finance 3) Export of food grains only after population is adequately fed. ------------------------------ *Post a comment* Note: Your comment will appear within 24 hours unless found inappropriate (spam, netabuse). *See policy* Name: Email Address: URL: *Note*: If you do not wish to post a public comment here and instead want to write a letter to the author directly, use the Write the authorlink that follows the author's byline at the end of the article. Remember personal info? YesNo Letter: For verification, please enter the security code you see below *View posted letters * (2) Note: Your post will appear within 24 hours unless found inappropriate (spam, netabuse). *See policy* Comments powered by Movable Type 2.64 - Cheque - Card - Bank Cheque *In India* India Together A-1205 Mantri Elegance N S Palya, Bannerghatta Rd Bangalore 560076 *Outside India* India Together PO Box 26254 San Diego CA 92196 USA Card Charge to your credit or debit card using the secure e-payment gateway of PayPal from anywhere. *Contribute now* Bank *HDFC Bank* Account Number 01332000003849 Account name: Civil Society Information Exchange Account type: Current A/C J P Nagar Branch, Bangalore IFSC code: HDFC0000133 Articles in related topics OP-ED - Inward security lens - Congress: Its own enemy - *Charkha* and the naturalist - Many more Mayawatis FOOD SECURITY - Food sovereignty, not just security - Global leadership, empty stomachs - Custodial malnutrition in M.P. - Driven to bondage and starvation LAWS - One-third of the lawmakers - New rules for seizing land - Fit to drive - Guarding the guardians India Together Ad Network RECENTLY IN INDIA TOGETHER • Jhunjhunu: A town full of surprises • Making Kargil serve a purpose • HT crops are too risky to tolerate • Drowning Himachalis, pampering Delhi • The prickliness of our foreign relations • Food for all? Not through the NFSA. • Documenting the flesh trade • Civil litigation? No, thanks. • Media policy: A citizens' wishlist • Sex meets society, in court • Expert panel giving conflicted IPR approvals • Your identification, please • The spirit of Mumbai's cars • The chancellors' vice • The great Goan land scam • The importance of Hyderabad municipal elections • Privatisation of behaviour • Alarming malnutrition pushing children out of schools • Looking at China, missing Pakistan • Awarded in haste, withheld • River basin studies: A half-hearted attempt • Price of rice, price of power • A law with flaws • Calcutta High Court steps in against corporal punishment • Questions of policy • In the cross fire between security and insurgency • Lion poacher nabbed, awaits trial • By the skin of their teeth • Sehore: Once vibrant, now in disarray • The empire flows again • Fishy, with lots of money • Elections 2009: A grand success • Inflation: perception andreality ------------------------------ © Civil Society Information Exchange Pvt. Ltd., all rights reserved. *Home* | *About us* | *Overview* | *Support* | *Contact Us* | *Disclaimer* From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 13:18:15 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 13:18:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 4 Message-ID: *Bachpan ko kare aabaad, Anganwadi Zindabad! * ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Aashish Gupta Date: Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 12:35 PM Subject: Children in the Soup To: Rakesh Iyer Children in the soup http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=Children+in+the+soup&artid=rFjyRa4zQDo=&SectionID=f4OberbKin4=&MainSectionID=f4OberbKin4=&SEO=&SectionName=cxWvYpmNp4fBHAeKn3LcnQ== Jayanthi takes great pride in showing off her kitchen and the meal for the day — sweetened* ladoo*-like balls made of a nutritious mix, *kolukatai* (a pastry), and dal and rice with vegetables. It may not sound very exciting, but for the 15-odd children below the age of six who visit her *anganwadi *centre every day, it is the staff of life, not to mention the pregnant women she meets on her home visits. Her meals are aimed at a problem more stubborn than poverty: malnutrition. While everyone from the World Bank to the Economic Survey 2008-09 has commended India for reducing poverty, malnutrition is a different story altogether. Measured by underweight children below three, malnutrition has decreased only marginally — from 47 per cent in 1998-99 to 45.9 in 2006 despite the Integrated Child Development Services (ICDS) scheme, the largest child development programme of its kind in the world. The ICDS, better known as the *anganwadi* programme was started in 1975 to tackle malnutrition among children, mothers and adolescent women, and provide pre-school education to children below six, and basic healthcare. For Jayanthi (name changed), one of the scores of *angan­wadi* workers indispensable to this programme, the day beg­ins at 9 am and continues till at least 6 pm. Some days she even takes her work — tea­ching aids and colourful models — home with her. “But when I am here, I need to make sure the children get their food and supplements. If they don’t turn up, I visit their home and leave the food there.” The delivery of nutritious food is core to the programme, as malnutrition has far-reaching impacts, including impaired cognitive and social development, poor school performance and reduced productivity in later life. Any way you look at it, it’s a big threat to socio-economic development. For instance, if productivity goes down, it becomes harder for individuals to get out of the poverty trap. They remain stuck in a cycle of low productivity and malnutrition. And this opens them up to preventable disabilities. A World Bank report says 70 per cent of cases of vision impairment and half of hearing problems in Asia and Africa are preventable or treatable. So, a large part of Jayanthi’s job includes telling young mothers what to feed their children. “They all say they use iodi­sed salt, but then they don’t always. I also advise them on what kind of vegetables to feed the children,” she explains. Sadly, not all anganwadis function as well as Jayanthi’s and the ICDS itself has certain built-in flaws, says Biraj Patnaik, the principal advisor to the Supreme Court Commissioners. Thus it has never realised its true potential. Among other things, money was a problem. Till 2002-03, many states spent less than Rs 1 per child per day. The apex court doubled this in ’04, while also pushing for universalisation by Dece­mber ’08. That meant 14 lakh *anganwadi* centres (against the existing six lakh). Acc­ording to a compliance report in early ’08, some eight lakh were operational, while about 10 lakh had been sanctioned .Last April, in another landmark judgment, the Supreme Court again doubled the amount for every child as well as the calorific value of the food to be provided while deciding on the Right To Food case (bringing it to Rs 4 per child and 500 calories). The new verdict also bans the use of contractors to provide food — thereby hoping the stem the widespread corruption that afflicts the programme. But corruption is just one of the concerns. More important is that only 30-odd per cent of child have access to it. Of the children who manage to reach the *anganwadi*, most are older than three, by which point malnutrition has already set in. Patnaik and his colleagues at the Supr­eme Court Commissioner’s office work closely with the Right to Food campaign which not only pushes for change but also tracks states for quality and compliance. The team is charged with monitoring states and pulling them up for failure to meet ICDS requirements. For instance, correspondence from last October indicates that Madhya Pradesh switched from hot cooked meals to ready-to-eat upma, a violation of court orders. “We focus primarily on the BIMARU states where the situation is worst,” he says wearily. So what else ails the system? “One key problem is that it doesn’t focus enough on children less than two. We need nutrition rehabilitation centres which will work along with the Primary Health Centre, not to mention a second worker to help the *anganwadi* worker,” he adds. They are seriously overloaded. Jayanthi and her helper, who have worked at the *anganwadi *from 1984-85, not only cook, feed the children, play with them, teach them, do home visits, regularly weigh them, but often find the time and resources to go beyond the call of duty. For instance, she is busy coordinating with young mothers to take their children to the government hospital in the coming week. “Sometimes, they are reluctant to go on their own, or cannot get away, in which case, I take the children so they don’t miss out on check-ups,” she says. Is ICDS alone enough? SC Commissioner N C Saxena’s 2009 report studies data from the National Family Health Survey-III. It shows that while only 32.9 per cent of children utilised any service from the *anganwadi*, in states where utilisation was higher, the effects on malnutrition were dramatic. In Chhattisgarh and Orissa, two of the poorest states, utilisation was 65.2 per cent and 65.8 per cent respectively. Malnutrition levels fell from 54.4 per cent to 44 per cent in Orissa, while in Chhattisgarh it went from 60.8 per cent to 52.1 per cent. Eerily enough, in Kerala, one of the most advanced states, with utilisation of any service at 30.8 per cent, malnutrition increased from 26.9 per cent to 28.8 per cent, with only 11.4 per cent living below the poverty line. Saxena’s conclusions are that, yes, the *anganwadi *makes a critical difference. Children without access to one are more undernourished than those in areas covered by an *anganwadi* operational for more than five years. “The only variable that is highly significant and has a positive impact on nutritional status is if the child received early childcare at the AWC. Maha­rashtra (50 per cent), West Bengal (39 per cent), and Chhattisgarh (37 per cent) reported the highest percentage of children receiving early childcare/preschool. These states are among the top five performers in reducing under-nutrition. This strengthens the argument for focusing on these services,” he adds. Fair enough, given that Jayanthi’s wards wouldn’t be able to go for check-ups often enough, if not for her. Of course, merely functional ICDS centres won’t work — what they provide is as important, if not more to ensure regular attendance at the centres. The debate has been between hot cooked meals and ready-to-eat mixes or fortified biscuits, but with the Supreme Court ruling out contractors and the Cabinet for hot meals, that battle is over. Implementation is another story. Reports show that RTE mixes like India Mix, supplied by the World Food Progra­mme, ended up as cattle feed after it was rejected by children. The Focus Survey of six states showed that RTE had more hea­lth complaints because of poor quality, not to mention that packaged food tended to be taken home and shared with family whenever possible. But this has not det­erred states from continuing with these snacks. “One IAS officer in Andhra Pra­desh,’’ Patnaik says, ‘‘had even done a study on how milch cattle have increased productivity when fed RTE food! ”Patnaik’s office compiled data from 14 states to show the food being offered at the various ICDS centres. The report says states like Assam, Maharashtra, Andhra Pradesh, Meghalaya and Bihar focused on Take Home Rations for children below three, along with hot cooked meals for all children below six, in Nagaland, children between three and six years get Maggi and Top Ramen, while Uttarakhand provides India mix. RTE snacks are provided in Kerala but are manufactured by state-run/supported SHGs. “We have the power to pull up states before for contempt of the Supreme Court, but it is a process of negotiation. We focus mostly on the BIMARU states anyway with our five-member team,” Patnaik adds. *What are Anganwadis? *ICDS services are provided through a vast network of ICDS centres, which are better known as *anganwadis*. The term *anganwadi* developed from the idea that a good early child care and development centre could be run with low cost local materials even when located in an ‘angan’ or courtyard. The *anganwadi *centre is operated by a modestly paid *anganwadi *worker, assisted by an * anganwadi* helper or *sahayika*. The local anganwadi is the cornerstone of the ICDS programme. *The Missing millions* The 2008 report from the Supreme Court Commissioners focused on hunger among groups that were vulnerable and likely to be left out of government services altogether, “invisibilised.” Among these groups are large numbers of children left out due to disability (extremely rare to see them in * anganwadis*), because they live on the streets, in urban slums or are children of migrant labourers.While access and fear of ill-treatment prevents disabled children from reaching anganwadis, lack of documentation and migrancy affect children of migrant workers. But 70 per cent of India’s slum children are malnourished in comparison to the national average of 46 per cent. The report shows that only 10 per cent of *anganwadis* are in urban areas though one-third of the poor are urban dwellers. Forty per cent of urban slums are excluded from ICDS because they are illegal/unauthorised. Only 40 per cent of urban ICDS centres have cooking space. Only 49 pc have utensils. (Source: Anganwadis for all: A Primer) — *ranjitha.gunasekaran at gmail.com* From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 2 14:33:15 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 02:03:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? In-Reply-To: <5bedab660908010938s6e7470f3id86fd9a8112a3735@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <253291.74301.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Ram! Ram! Pheeta Ram Ji   There is no unease over your contribution to the 'threads'. It was on the contrary interesting to see how you 'view' religions and the role played by them and what you would like to be done about them.   I only wanted to understand why were you 'shocked' """" to see many kewl guys fitted in branded jeans chanting Hanuman Chalisa when i dragged myself out of curiosity to a temple in Delhi.""""""   - were you shocked because they were 'guys'? - were you shocked because they were 'kewl' guys? - were you shocked because they wore 'jeans'? - were you shocked because the jeans were 'branded'? - were you shocked  because they were in a 'temple'? - were you shocked because they were 'chanting'? - were you shocked because they were chanting 'Hanuman Chalisa'?   I also found it interesting that it took your being 'dragged' (by yourself) 'out of curiosity to a temple' to have this "shocking" revelation dawn upon you.   Maybe you are not in touch with the realities around you. Please do 'drag' yourself around a bit more.   Kshmendra --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Pheeta Ram wrote: From: Pheeta Ram Subject: Re: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? To: "Kshmendra Kaul" Cc: reader-list at sarai.net Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 10:08 PM Is it necessary to reinvent the wheel Kshmendraji? Please refer to the threads i have been following and let me know "the point" of your unease. I would like to be corrected if there is scope. Yours sincerely Pheeta Ram On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: Ram! Ram! Pheeta Ram Ji   You wrote:   "I was shocked to see many kewl guys fitted in branded jeans chanting Hanuman Chalisa when i dragged myself out of curiosity to a temple in Delhi."   Could you please elaborate on why you were "shocked"?   Kshmendra   --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Pheeta Ram wrote: From: Pheeta Ram Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? To: reader-list at sarai.net Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 2:35 AM Dear All, I know this won't go down well with most of you but here it is: Religions are the basic source of strife and as long as there will be religions (belief in this God and that) there will be such hostilities. By professing one religion i simultaneously create an other being who, by inference, is either follower of some religion or a pagan. The basic contradiction in all religions is that despite their moral-ethical discourse regarding oneness of all humanity they are the principal segregators. All the saints who have walked the earth deluded themselves with such fancies. Religion is not just a system of belief but also an economy. We depend a lot upon our religious capital for our subsistance. A person who professes to be a member of certain community (primarily religious) also depends upon it as a kind of umbilical cord and draws sucour. By now earth has soaked so much blood because of religious strifes that sometimes i wonder isn't it time to abandon all religious badges and create a ethical moral code drawn from all the religions and start believing in one community: that is Human. I think we need to believe in our brother next door and one walking on the street or the worker on a Metro site. We need to believe that for the survival of humanity we need to believe in each other and not on some transcendental agency. I wonder why we haven't learnt from our history. The primary reason why we have failed terribly in creating a community of all human beings that walk the earth is because we are afraid. Afraid to believe in somebody who is in front of us in flesh and blood. I remember a man sitting in Blue Line who was highly uncomfortable when a profusely sweating migrant labourer got in and found a seat, to his great relief, by his side. It is certain that he didn't know of the religion of that worker but the stench of his sweat and his dirty clothes were enough for him to get up and keep standing for the rest of his journey. I wonder when we have such intolerence for a 'fellow' human beings' honest sweat how would we ever begin even thinking about such a Human community. The perils that face the earth now are reasons enough that we start believing in each other and work for the future of humanity by shunning all our sectarian tags. But strangely we are busy inventing/refurbishing new messiah who would deliver us from the mess that we have ourselves created on this earth. I wonder what stops us from creating a new religion of Humanity. The advice that comes from scholarly circles regarding all this religious intolerance is : Tolerance! That we need to tolerate each other. Tolerance is another form of fascism or nazism, what ever. I won't agree with substituting the word toleracne with "respect" or "compassion". Why tolerate the very root of strife in the first place. And yet, sadly, things are not as simple as that. But  a time comes when we have to call a spade a spade. We have to shun God to love human beings. There is no other way. Just visualize the situation: Two guys are standing in a big stadium in front of each other, just a metre apart but with their faces 'heaven'wards. Why are they afraid to see each other directly. Why does the need arise to travel so many light years and then come to ones brother standing just a meter away. I know it is plain foolishness to ask somebody whose bread and butter depends upon religion to shun it and enter the fold of Humanity where people believe in people and work with mutual responsibility. But we need neo-believers who are foolish enough to believe in such a possibility and are ready to work for it. It's a long revolution but a possible one. But, the roadblocks are mighty hard to surpass. Take for instance my case: I have a primary school in my neighbourhood, a government one. And every morning even before i have got up their assembly begins and the chants of sacred Hindu mantras begin. All this atma and parmatma stuff. Though i don't dispute the sense inherent in the prayer yet aren't we or rather the supposedly and proffessedly secular government entering into the business of 'mass conversion'. When i have all these religious prayers embedded into my consciousness right from my childhood can you imagine how much i would have to suffer to convert back to the religion of humanity if i convert at all and not turn into some religious fanatic. Less said of the schools run by one religion or the other the better. Though the proposal seems indecent yet i think there are madmen enough to believe in this long long revolution. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rocky.terrain at rediffmail.com Sun Aug 2 15:10:15 2009 From: rocky.terrain at rediffmail.com (motherdivine) Date: 2 Aug 2009 09:40:15 -0000 Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? Message-ID: <1249203692.S.13996.56124.f6mail-145-155.rediffmail.com.1249206015.56628@webmail.rediffmail.com> Hi, there is yet another strand to religion Vs non religion. You are wrongly assuming that God is only boxed within religions, that are according to one perspective the "cause'  of all strife.As Murali said there are other ways... God as outside reilgion. there is the entire gamut of spirituality  (you may say this is pagan religion but hey you are classifying lifestyles from an eliete monotheistic perspective in that case!) so, the views till now of  brainwashed atheists and pro hinduism group are quite sad to note. Move on ppl this is the twentieth century! Also, self proclaimed "expert on Che" aka Pheeta Ram, according to you the cool ppl (like you?) dont read religious tests, neither do they visit worship shrines which are visited by uncool masses (religion is the opium of the masses) who wear unbranded jeans and are of a much lower class than your majesty.  Ha ha ha so religion for you is some passtime of idiotic others which you view as entertainment as and when you please! H ha ha ha ciao! On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 14:31:32 +0530 wrote >Ram! Ram! Pheeta Ram Ji > >There is no unease over your contribution to the 'threads'. It was on the contrary interesting to see how you 'view' religions and the role played by them and what you would like to be done about them. > >I only wanted to understand why were you 'shocked' """" to see many kewl guys fitted in branded jeans chanting Hanuman Chalisa when i dragged myself out of curiosity to a temple in Delhi."""""" > >- were you shocked because they were 'guys'? >- were you shocked because they were 'kewl' guys? >- were you shocked because they wore 'jeans'? >- were you shocked because the jeans were 'branded'? >- were you shocked because they were in a 'temple'? >- were you shocked because they were 'chanting'? >- were you shocked because they were chanting 'Hanuman Chalisa'? > >I also found it interesting that it took your being 'dragged' (by yourself) 'out of curiosity to a temple' to have this "shocking" revelation dawn upon you. > >Maybe you are not in touch with the realities around you. Please do 'drag' yourself around a bit more. > >Kshmendra > >--- On Sat, 8/1/09, Pheeta Ram wrote: > > >From: Pheeta Ram >Subject: Re: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? >To: "Kshmendra Kaul" <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> >Cc: reader-list at sarai.net >Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 10:08 PM > > >Is it necessary to reinvent the wheel Kshmendraji? Please refer to the threads i have been following and let me >know "the point" of your unease. I would like to be corrected if there is scope. > >Yours sincerely >Pheeta Ram > > > > > > >On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > >Ram! Ram! Pheeta Ram Ji > > >You wrote: > >"I was shocked to see many kewl guys fitted in branded jeans chanting Hanuman Chalisa when i dragged myself out of curiosity to a temple in Delhi." > >Could you please elaborate on why you were "shocked"? > >Kshmendra > > > >--- On Sat, 8/1/09, Pheeta Ram wrote: > > >From: Pheeta Ram >Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? >To: reader-list at sarai.net >Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 2:35 AM > > > > > >Dear All, >I know this won't go down well with most of you but here it is: >Religions are the basic source of strife and as long as there will be >religions >(belief in this God and that) there will be such hostilities. By professing >one religion >i simultaneously create an other being who, by inference, is either follower >of some religion >or a pagan. The basic contradiction in all religions is that despite their >moral-ethical discourse >regarding oneness of all humanity they are the principal segregators. All >the saints who have >walked the earth deluded themselves with such fancies. > >Religion is not just a system of belief but also an economy. We depend a lot >upon our religious capital >for our subsistance. A person who professes to be a member of certain >community (primarily religious) >also depends upon it as a kind of umbilical cord and draws sucour. > >By now earth has soaked so much blood because of religious strifes that >sometimes i wonder isn't it time >to abandon all religious badges and create a ethical moral code drawn from >all the religions and start believing >in one community: that is Human. > >I think we need to believe in our brother next door and one walking on the >street or the worker on a Metro site. >We need to believe that for the survival of humanity we need to believe in >each other and not on some transcendental >agency. I wonder why we haven't learnt from our history. The primary reason >why we have failed terribly in creating a >community of all human beings that walk the earth is because we are afraid. >Afraid to believe in somebody who is in >front of us in flesh and blood. I remember a man sitting in Blue Line who >was highly uncomfortable when a profusely sweating migrant labourer got in >and found a seat, to his great relief, by his side. It is certain that he >didn't know of the >religion of that worker but the stench of his sweat and his dirty clothes >were enough for him to get up and keep standing >for the rest of his journey. I wonder when we have such intolerence for a >'fellow' human beings' honest sweat how would we >ever begin even thinking about such a Human community. The perils that face >the earth now are reasons enough that we >start believing in each other and work for the future of humanity by >shunning all our sectarian tags. But strangely we are busy >inventing/refurbishing new messiah who would deliver us from the mess that >we have ourselves created on this earth. > >I wonder what stops us from creating a new religion of Humanity. > >The advice that comes from scholarly circles regarding all this religious >intolerance is :Tolerance! >That we need to tolerate each other. Tolerance is another form of fascism or >nazism, what ever. I won't agree with substituting >the word toleracne with "respect" or "compassion". Why tolerate the very >root of strife in the first place. > >And yet, sadly, things are not as simple as that. But a time comes when we >have to call a spade a spade. >We have to shun God to love human beings. There is no other way. Just >visualize the situation: Two guys are standing in a big stadium in front of >each other, just a metre apart but with their faces 'heaven'wards. Why are >they afraid to see each other directly. >Why does the need arise to travel so many light years and then come to ones >brother standing just a meter away. > >I know it is plain foolishness to ask somebody whose bread and butter >depends upon religion to shun it and enter the fold of Humanity where people >believe in people and work with mutual responsibility. But we >need neo-believers who are foolish enough to >believe in such a possibility and are ready to work for it. It's a >long revolution but a possible one. > >But, the roadblocks are mighty hard to surpass. Take for instance my case: >I have a primary school in my neighbourhood, a government one. And >every morning even before i have got up their assembly begins and the chants >of sacred Hindu mantras begin. All this atma and parmatma stuff. Though i >don't dispute the sense inherent in the prayer yet aren't we or rather the >supposedly and proffessedly secular government entering into the business >of 'mass conversion'. When i have all these religious prayers embedded into >my consciousness right from my childhood can you imagine how much i would >have to suffer to convert back to the religion of humanity if i convert at >all and not turn into some religious fanatic. Less said of the schools run >by one religion or the other the better. > >Though the proposal seems indecent yet i think there are madmen enough to >believe in this long long revolution. > >_________________________________________ >reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >Critiques & Collaborations >To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > >_________________________________________ >reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >Critiques & Collaborations >To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 2 15:22:14 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 02:52:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: <4eab87870907312330h61e61fc5o398b0db4f0456b15@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <651501.92528.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Murali   This is the first time I have heard Gayatri Mantra being touted as a 'breathing exercise'. Could you please elaborate on that?   If you were to speak about the benefits of Pranayamic exercises (especially Ujjayi Pranayam), that would make some sense. But Gayatri Mantra as a 'breathing exercise'????   While on this topic, why not introduce Vuzoo and Namaaz too into your proposed regime?   Vuzoo is an excellent habit for maintaining basic cleanliness and Namaaz entails a set of postures in which (fascinatingly) you can see a digest of various Yogic Aasanas.   Kshmendra  --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Murali V wrote: From: Murali V Subject: Re: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS To: "Pheeta Ram" Cc: "sarai list" Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 12:00 PM Dear Anupam, Dear Anupam, The issue of uniformity has still not been addressed. A burkha clad girl in a school cannot be questioned and if done, the media and the entire pseudo-seculars go all out to  call it hindu fanaticism. Atma or the soul, life after death and re-birth are concepts which is their in most faiths. Moreover the Gaytri mantra is also a breathing exercise as the stanzas repeated in its correct form has set timings to control breath. Regards, V Murali From pheeta.ram at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 15:49:49 2009 From: pheeta.ram at gmail.com (Pheeta Ram) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 15:49:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] On Delhi In-Reply-To: References: <4A7414A5.8090504@ranadasgupta.com> <537327.23275.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5bedab660908020319y2cafa796nca9b3e56087fa491@mail.gmail.com> Dear Zainab and others following the thread, Your point about a direct and close correspondence between how 'we' narrate the city and how 'we' perceive it is insightful. I have a few random thoughts to share. There are a few preliminaries we need to take into account even before we make up our mind to read Rana's piece on (adjectives required) Delhi. Beginning from one end of the spectrum, the author, the 'class'/es he belong/s to, his intended class of the audience, the platform/s and forum/s where the piece makes an appearance, the 'classes' these forums are accessible to. The string can be reassembled according to one's object and more variables can be brought in to really appreciate the 'rich' complexity of the "impenetrable" city.But one can certainly not discuss a piece of writing on a city without taking into account all these functional variables and constants together and if one does others need to point out to truly appreciate the effort made by the writer at understanding the city. In this age, which most people now like to call 'post-Marxist' or even 'post-capital', the real tragedy has been the concepts that bore currency during the heydays of Marxist discourse. These concepts had a certain remarkable potential to render bare the webs of complex relationships of a society. 'Class' has been one of these concepts which is absentmindedly, and blissfully so,ignored whenever we talk of such pieces as Rana's. To hazard a theoretical conjecture: there is a certain invisible compact between the author and the reader whereby the text becomes a cozy (even if described by its synonymous "disturbing") habitation for both, a reflection of their lived relations. Without expending more labour i can say that as one t-reads line after line of Rana's piece one becomes aware of its implicit horizon of experience/narration, that is, the boundaries of a particular 'class' or 'segment' of society. Beginning from the one end, it's now a much worn out argument against English press or "Indian" writers in English that they have a superficial understanding of the 'Reality' of India. The argument comes from vernacular writers/press of course who believe that India resides only in villages and mofussil towns which the urbane and anglicised "English writers"/press are justifiably denied access to because of the medium of communication. The tangle has seemingly been resolved with the understanding that each writer (especially while writing a 'non-fictional' piece) should be true to his/her horizon of experience without trying to co-opt or appropriate (or monopolise) the experiences ( and categories) that s/he doesn't have a 'direct experiential access' to or atleast must situate him/herself in the text in his material dimensions. On this account, i would say Rana comes out clean ( and who am i to give him a clean chit, i ask myself) because he writes and reports only what he has an 'access' to and certainly doesn't tresspass (for he can't, certain lifeworlds, or spaces are accessible only to the 'insiders', its another case whether they can write of them in Granta or a Sarai mailing list or not). He very honestly limits himself to the Delhi roads when it comes to marveling at the very overwhelmingly complex exhibition of "*city's* social relations." Just imagine the interesting gap between "Delhites" and "Dilliwala". While a writer writing in English has access to both the terms, a writer writing in Hindi or Bhojpuri won't be able to appropriate the word "Delhite" without a reference to the class of people it directly refers to. Recent debate between "Delhi" and "Dilli" was primarily a class debate. A text is as much a piece of writing in as it is of writing out:"Delhites admire social rank, name-dropping and exclusive clubs, and they snub strangers who turn up without a proper introduction," Rana writes. Hostility of a city towards its residents is as much imaginary as it is real. Places are differentially hostile depending upon gender and class. A lower class citizen experiences a different kind of hostility in a posh urban residential area or a "gated community" as compared to an upper class ( apologies for dishing out clean binary categories) mobile intellectual whom the capital drives to unwillingly access places and wrestle for spaces in lower class ghettos or "slums" which have been patently hostile places in our cinematic imagination. Why would a Pali HIll resident visit a Mumbai slum or a chawl? The malls that engender a glitter in our eyes also emanate hostile vibes towards certain stratum of society. We are always afraid of the unknown, curious or otherwise. Whereas an army of gated community residents can march out on a broad daylight jaunt into a 'hostile' part of the city in order to diffuse that hostility or "conquer" that hostile part in their imaginations, such luxury is not afforded to the " (hostile) residents of the hostile part of the city." Though crude and cliched, these arguments nonetheless afford 'us' a bit of consumable clarity. On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 11:56 AM, Zainab Bawa wrote: > Dear Rana, > > Thanks for posting your piece on the reader-list. I read it a few days ago > and was very disturbed. Your essay, coupled with a few experiences in the > days preceeding to my reading of your essay, lead me to question the notion > of "city". I want to initiate a discussion along this lines and on tangents > related. On first reading of your piece, the picture of Delhi that I got > was > of this dark, gory, vulgar monster. The city appeared like this abyss, this > morass, in which you just sink. I am not in denial of the incidents and > some > of the trends that you have described and explained in your piece. I am > wondering about how we are constructing narratives of the city. The issue > of > how we narrate the city has been of particular concern to me in recent > times > because I think that the manner in which we describe the city and the > experience of the city has serious repercussions for the city itself - > dark, > gory city and subsequently, the practice of the city as this dangerous > space > which you do not venture out in the nights or certain nooks and crannies of > the city that you cannot go to because you perceive them to be dangerous. > About 5 years ago, I had organized night walks during the month of Ramzaan > in Bombay where we would walk in the night through areas like Dongri, > Bhendi > Bazaar, Nagpada, Foras Road and all the alleys and nooks that we otherwise > don't visit. On two of the three walks I organized, the people who came > told > me how they have never visited Dongri earlier, even though they have been > resident in the city for many years, because of the fear that Dongri is > this > place where people roam around with knives and swords and a riot happens at > the drop of the hat. One reason for this perception of Dongri is the way in > which the area has been projected in films, in writing and even in the > narratives of the 1992-93 riots. > > I think about Delhi and how I used to hate being in Delhi during my initial > visits. I was told that Delhi is a city of thugs and that everyone is out > to > loot you. My own behaviour towards auto drivers was subsequently > conditioned > by this perception. Delhi always appeared as this dangerous city in which I > will be looted at any moment and so, I was always on my guard. At some > point, as I frequently visited the city and lived in different > neighbourhoods and areas, more out of compulsions and accidents rather than > choice, and then I discovered my own Delhi - the hustle bustle at Tees > Hazari bus stand and other bus stations where people are flowing in and out > like water, the experience of refugee friends from Burma who hated the city > and rightfully so for the attitude of the Delhiites towards them, the > affluence of South Delhi, and a particular warmth and comfort of Old Delhi > which really made me love the city despite all my antagonisms and anguish. > It is these varied aspirations, and often times very contradictory and > ambiguous desires and aspirations, that prevail among different people in > the city that I am now seeking to know and narrate. > > I think back of my own writings on Bombay between 2003 and 2006 and how I > have lost not only my words, but also my romance with the city following my > move to Bangalore. I lived Bombay and loved it through the very mundane > acts > of living. I talked to people who had stories to tell that not only > intrigued me about their lives, but also got me to think of the city, of > aspiration, of desires and how people invest themselves in the city. After > the move to Bangalore, my engagements in Bangalore with groups and > individuals who were fighting about a city (perceived) to be lost and a > city > emerging from the ruins and the ghosts of the devastated present into a > dark > and dilapidated future, shaped a good deal of my own understanding of > cities. I have subsequently lost my relationships with both Bangalore and > Bombay. It is only now, through acts such as eating food with friends who > live in rehabilitation housing and squatter settlements in Mumbai, > listening > to their everyday experiences of the city, that I am reconstructing my own > self and my relationship with Bombay. The reconstruction is continuously > confronted with anxities and fears about a city that is losing itself to > "capital". And yet, the stories I come across each day, remind me that we > are all invested in this capital and more so in the city. We are invested > in > the city through our emotions, aspirations, desires, hatred, anxieties and > we are embedded in the capital, in different ways. I feel like owning a car > now because I see that as the only way in which I can attain my freedom in > Bangalore and move around the city at nights - a city with dismal public > transport and with its citizens living in a certain fear of the night as a > time in the life of the everyday city which is unsafe. I am invested in the > trajectories of capital, in the city and the production and reproduction of > space in the city in ways such as these. > > I apologize if my thoughts are too rambling and not totally coherent. But I > am really thinking about whether we have lost the romance with the city and > whether the loss is really real and whether now is a moment when we think > about cities and how we tell stories. And I don't mean to ask this question > in a sense of drawing any binaries between the dark, vulgar capitalist city > and the mundane, everyday life of the city laced with figures and > characters > who are either beyond the reach of capital or who will be put to death by > the noose of capital. I am really asking for a serious rethinking of > narratives and how these narratives lead us to not only tell the city, but > also to imagine and practice the city and for our own relationships with > our > own cities (whether these are places or non-places or homes or destinations > or spaces of demolition, eviction, violence ...). ... > > Still thoughtful, (mildly nostalgic about my Tees Hazari bus station which > is my relationship with Delhi), and in a spirit of conversation, > > Zainab > > -- > Zainab Bawa > Ph.D. Student and Independent Researcher > > Gaining Ground ... > http://zainab.freecrow.org > > > http://cis-india.org/research/cis-raw/histories-of-the-internet/transparency-and-politics > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 16:02:17 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 16:02:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 4 Message-ID: Online edition of India's National Newspaper Wednesday, Dec 05, 2001 Group Publications Business Line The Sportstar Frontline The Hindu About Us Contact Us *Opinion* News: | Front Page | National | Southern States | Other States| International | Opinion| Business | Sport| Entertainment | Miscellaneous | Features| Advts: Classifieds | Employment | Opinion - Leader Page Articles * Right to food and public accountability * By Jean Dreze IN THE month of October, Surguja district in Chhatisgarh looks like a land of milk and honey. Endless waves of green fields, lush forests and clear streams give an impression of natural abundance. These delightful surroundings, however, hide a harsh struggle for survival. Yields are low in Surguja, and most farmers are unable to grow enough food to cover their subsistence needs. When food runs out, they have to migrate in search of work. Those who are unable to migrate try to make ends meet by keeping a few animals, selling wood or collecting tendu and other minor forest products. Hunger is widespread, and so are basic diseases such as gastro-enteritis, which caused hundreds of deaths in Wadroffnagar block last August. The dismal record of development programmes in the district bears some responsibility for this state of affairs. It would be an exaggeration to say that all these programmes have ``failed''. Examples of useful interventions include the installation of handpumps in many hamlets, state purchases of tendu at subsidised rates, and a major expansion of school facilities. However, these are islands of relative success in a sea of inefficiency, corruption and exploitation. Even though large sums have been spent on development schemes, most villages in Surguja are still deprived of basic facilities such as a decent approach road, a health centre or electricity. The public distribution system (PDS) fits into this broader pattern of dismal basic services, rooted in a breakdown of public accountability. A brief reconnaissance of Wadroffnagar block suggests that the PDS is virtually non-functional in this area. In village after village, ration cards are full of blank entries. The main reason seems to be that the poor are unable to overcome all the hurdles that prevent them from drawing their rations. Consider Jhapar, a tribal village near the Uttar Pradesh border. It takes about three hours to walk from there to the local ration shop, 12 km away. The shop opens only two or three days each month (in September, it was open for one day only). The opening times are arbitrary and unpredictable. When word reaches Jhapar that grain is being distributed, eligible households have to rustle up enough cash to buy their monthly quota of rice - about Rs. 130, not a small amount in this subsistence economy. For most people in Jhapar, producing this sum at short notice is very difficult. Among those who are able to spare the cash, and also to spend a day walking to the ration shop and back, some find the shop closed, others are told it has ``run out'' of rice. Few households succeed in reaching the end of this obstacle course. Most people are reconciled to the fact that it is futile to expect anything from this rigmarole. They know they are being short-changed, but feel little can be done about it. As one resident aptly commented, ``Hamaree baat koi naheen manega. Ham log lathi chalane wale naheen hai, (nobody is going to listen to us, we are not the sort to wield lathis).'' Many of these hurdles arise from the fact that the ration-shop dealer has a strong incentive to prevent his customers from buying their ration, and to sell the grain on the open market. In disadvantaged areas such as Wadroffnagar, the public simply does not have enough clout to resist this fraud. Many people do not even know their entitlements. In some villages, for instance, they have been told that the monthly quota is only 10 kg, as against the official norm of 20 kg. In the larger villages on the main road to Ambikapur (the district headquarters), the situation is different. Here people know their entitlements, and they have means of keeping the local dealer on his toes, for instance through elected representatives or ``vigilance committees''. As a result, offtake from the ration shops is much higher. In fact, the dealers bitterly complain that the public does not ``allow'' them to sell on the black market, making the entire business unviable. Indeed, the official ``commissions'' are insufficient to cover operational costs (including customary bribes at the FCI godowns). The local dealers envy their counterparts in remote areas, who are able to fleece the public without encountering much resistance. The whole system looks like it has been designed to fail. Given the inadequacy of official commissions, only those who have enough clout to resist public scrutiny and sell on the black market are likely to bid for ration-shop licences. And once corrupt dealers are in control of the licences, the door is wide open for large-scale diversion of PDS grain to the black market. According to a dealer who spoke openly, barely 25 per cent of the food lifted from FCI godowns in Surguja reaches the intended households. Surguja's experience suggests that the PDS is in urgent need of drastic reform, with a special focus on public accountability. Various steps could be taken to improve accountability levels. First, better use can be made of both carrot and stick in handling the ration-shop dealers. Their commissions should be raised, making it possible for them to work honestly, and conditional on that, firm action should be taken against corrupt dealers. Second, gram panchayats and gram sabhas should be empowered to appoint and dismiss ration-shop operators. In Madhya Pradesh and Chhatisgarh, the devolution of supervisory powers to panchayati raj institutions has been used with good effect in other contexts, and this approach can perhaps be extended to the PDS. Third, in areas such as Surguja, there is a strong case for abolishing the distinction between BPL (below poverty line) and non-BPL households. Aside from creating artificial social divisions in the villages, this distinction has undermined public pressure for an improved PDS (since non-BPL households no longer have a stake in it), without achieving much in terms of cutting costs. Last but not least, the right to food calls for greater attention from popular organisations and social movements. There is little hope of radical change based on Government initiatives alone. It is perhaps not far-fetched to think that the right to food provides an ideal focus of popular mobilisation at this time of unprecedented hunger amidst plenty. In Wadroffnagar, people were shocked to hear that food mountains were lying idle in FCI godowns across the country (and even in Wadroffnagar block itself). Even otherwise, there is a strong undercurrent of resentment about the rampant exploitation of local communities at the hands of babus and sahukars, of which the breakdown of the PDS is one manifestation. Efforts to translate this resentment into constructive action are likely to be rewarding. A good example of the galvanising effects of public accountability came up in Raghunathnagar, the site of last August's gastro-enteritis epidemic. After this incident, which caused a public uproar, the local health centre was promptly revamped. Now there are qualified doctors, plenty of medicines, and feverish activity - the best health outpost I have seen. It is a pity this metamorphosis happened only after a wave of deaths. Perhaps the most effective means of banishing hunger and starvation from Surguja is an employment guarantee programme. Even a limited guarantee (restricted, say, to the lean season) could go a long way in this respect. The country's gigantic food stocks have made such programmes more affordable than ever, and there is no dearth of opportunities for labour-intensive public works in this area. In this connection, it was sobering to find that most villages in Wadroffnagar had not seen any relief works for many years. This year, no relief works had been organised in any of the villages we visited, except Pandari where makeshift work took place for five days shortly before the Chief Minister's visit last August. Even in Pandari, not a single labourer has been paid to date. It is a cruel irony that in the name of ``relief'' people are being made to work without payment, like slaves. Here again, lack of public accountability is the key issue. Send this article to Friends by E-Mail Opinion News: | Front Page | National | Southern States | Other States| International | Opinion| Business | Sport| Entertainment | Miscellaneous | Features| Advts: Classifieds | Employment | Stories in this Section - Victory in court - A war psychosis in West Asia - Right to food and public accountability - The textbook controversy - Contempt actions - Poor showing - Political will lacking? - Growing discontent - Limits of tolerance - Those pet theories - Not unethical - The Enron debacle Archives Yesterday's Issue Datewise Features: * Magazine Literary Review Metro Plus Open Page Education Book Review Business SciTech Entertainment Young World Folio * ------------------------------ The Hindu Group: Home | About Us| Copyright | Archives| Contacts | Subscription Group Sites: The Hindu | Business Line| The Sportstar | Frontline| Home | Copyright © 2001, The Hindu. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of The Hindu ------------------------------ From peter.ksmtf at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 16:18:25 2009 From: peter.ksmtf at gmail.com (T Peter) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 16:18:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fish workers plan stir against pact Message-ID: <3457ce860908020348h5a5a7841h2e319ae89e13308c@mail.gmail.com> *Fish workers plan stir against pact * *Date:02/08/2009* *URL: http://www.thehindu.com/2009/08/02/stories/2009080257320200.htm* Special Correspondent Thiruvananthapuram: The National Fish Workers Forum (NFF) and the Kerala Swathantra Matsya Thozhilali Federation (KSMTF) have threatened to launch a nation-wide agitation against the move by the Union government to sign a free trade agreement with ASEAN (Association of South East Asian Nations). Addressing a press conference here on Saturday, State president of KSMTF T. Peter and secretary Anto Elias said efforts were on to mobilise the fisheries and agricultural sectors for a sustained agitation against the trade pact. In a memorandum submitted to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and UPA convenor Sonia Gandhi, NFF and KSMTF urged them to drop the move to enter into a free trade agreement. They said the proposed pact would lead to the collapse of the fisheries and agricultural sectors in India. “Cheap imports of fish and agricultural produce will flood the country, threatening the livelihood of fish workers and farmers.” Mr. Peter said the government had failed to implement the recommendation of the Murari committee to ban the operation of foreign trawlers in territorial waters. “It has also failed to honour the commitment to write off loans availed by fish workers and reduce the tax on fishing equipment. In this context, the FTA comes as a heavy blow. It will worsen the crisis faced by the fisheries sector.” He said the pact would enable countries like Thailand and Vietnam to dump 177 species of fish in the Indian market. “Fresh catch of anchovy, lobster, crab, sardine, mackerel, shark, shrimp and squid will be replaced by refrigerated imports, spelling doom for traditional fish workers in the State. Fishing equipment is also likely to be imported.” The contention that some species had been included in the negative list was of no significance if the FTA was signed. http://www.keralafishworkers.org http://www.alakal.net From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Aug 2 16:40:12 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 12:10:12 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] ATML... Expected To Be Higher After Earnings Releases on Wednesday- 178 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908020410t264d8c1dxd86f8d10b04f5aa2@mail.gmail.com> Dear All This is just to let you all give an indication of how certain companies related to National ID cards sector are faring in market these days. Regards Taha http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2009/07/31/4301298.htm ATML... Expected To Be Higher After Earnings Releases on Wednesday Atmel Corporation (NASDAQ: ATML) designs, develops, manufactures, and markets a range of semiconductor integrated circuits (IC) products. Its products include microcontrollers, logic, mixed-signal, nonvolatile memory, and radio frequency (RF) components. The company operates in four segments: Microcontrollers, Application Specific Integrated Circuit (ASIC), Nonvolatile Memories, and RF and Automotive. The Microcontrollers segment provides various proprietary and standard microcontrollers, which contain embedded nonvolatile memory and integrated analog peripherals. This segment also offers products for military and aerospace applications. The ASIC segment offers application specific ICs designed to meet specialized requirements for their high performance devices in various applications. It also include a range of products that provide security for digital data transactions, including smart cards for mobile phones, set top boxes, and banking and national identity cards. In addition, this segment offers customer specific products for space applications, power management, and secure memory products. The Nonvolatile Memories segment consists of serial interface electrically erasable programmable read-only memory and serial interface flash memory products. This segment also includes parallel interface flash memories, as well as mature parallel interface electrically erasable programmable read-only memory and erasable programmable read-only memory devices. The RF and Automotive segment includes products designed for the automotive industry. It produces and sells wireless and wired devices for industrial, consumer, and automotive applications; and provides foundry services that produce RF products for the mobile telecommunications market. Atmel Corporation sells its products to original equipment manufacturers directly; and indirectly through distributors in the United States, Asia, Europe, and internationally. The company was founded in 1984 and is headquartered in San Jose, California. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Aug 2 17:00:31 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 12:30:31 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Nilekani has mentored, financed eGovernments Foundation- 179 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908020430u318f06b0r18a9bab6f262dd7e@mail.gmail.com> Dear All The spin in some sections of media seems to have moved to Nandu's team. First we were told how Nandu sacrificed whatever he had at Infi to move to an uncharted territory, now it seems that the 'sacrifice' fever has been passed on to Nandu's team. The news story below features a new character in Srikanth Nadhamuni, who it seems, has done nothing in his life but sacrifice. He sacrificed India to go to silicon Valley, then he Sacrificed Silicon Valley to come back to India, then he joined Infi, then he sacrificed infi to join eGovernment now he is sacrificing eGov to join UIDAI, it seems. Please read the story below from subtle emotionalisms like -leap of faith- Warm regards Taha http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Nilekani-has-mentored-financed-eGovernments-Foundation/articleshow/4782820.cms Nilekani has mentored, financed eGovernments Foundation 16 Jul 2009, 0753 hrs IST, Pankaj Mishra, ET Bureau BANGALORE: For Nandan Nilekani, eGovernance has been a labour of love. For seven years he has been quietly pursuing his passion with a not-for-profit trust that he founded before he was plucked out of India’s second largest software exporter by the prime minister to lead the country’s most ambitious eGovernance project. eGovernments Foundation, into which he has poured Rs 15 crore from his personal wealth, is an example and a pointer to the way Mr Nilekani will manage the Unique Identity Development Authority of India (UIDAI), the world’s biggest citizen database project. The foundation, which he set up with former Silicon Valley engineer Srikanth Nadhamuni, has equipped Mr Nilekani with expertise in implementing eGovernance projects and provided him with a ready pool resources should he decide to tap into it. eGovernments Foundation is a window into the thinking of the man who will shepherd the effort to give every Indian citizen a unique identity card. What started as a not-for-profit venture to help the cause of eGovernance in India is now evolving into a serious, commercial business. eGovernments now plans to become a ‘for profit’ venture to fund its growth and ensure that at least the costs are covered. Today, software from eGovernments helps around 250 municipal bodies in towns and cities across India to manage their inventory, property tax collection and public grievance redressal. The solutions automate these processes and allow users and officials get a bird’s eye view of what’s happening. Customers such as the New Delhi Municipal Corporation (NDMC) are now allowing online payment of property tax by citizens using software from eGovernments. The corporation is also able to track all projects being executed across each and every street in their municipal limits using a sophisticated Geographical Information System (GIS). “We are running Oracle at the back end, but eGovernments has provided us software for property tax and finance ,” said an NDMC official. “It’s not pricey to begin with. Moreover, the software is a very comfortable experience, both for our officials and the citizens who can now avoid long queues,” he added. Officials at municipal corporations such as Bangalore’s BBMP are seeing the benefit of using a software that addresses their specific needs. “We have been using their property tax solution, and now have a much better visibility on receipts and dues, almost on an hourly basis,” a Karnataka government official said. In Ramanagaram near Bangalore, citizens are now able to get birth certificates within hours of birth because of a module that is integrated with a government hospital. Hundreds of towns in Karnataka now use the birth registration software developed by eGovernments. “Our software competes with the best; we have put ourselves on the line, we have to get into the trenches now,” says Mr Nadhamuni. As India seeks to modernise its complex government systems and processes with the help of technology, there is an opportunity for many emerging ventures to evolve as country’s next Infosys or a Wipro in the eGovernance market. The decision to become a for-profit venture came about after the foundation realised that giving away things free has its drawbacks. Commitment by users is not guaranteed and in any case eGovernments had to compete with the biggest and the best in the software business just to make its solutions available. Also, having achieved a substantial customer base, there was a compelling need for eGovernments to start operating like a more serious venture and generate enough cash to support salary and other costs. “If we don’t charge anything, people can just unplug the software any day. Buying commercial software also makes the government more accountable,” says Mr Nadhamuni. Around the time that eGovernments was looking for somebody with sufficient zeal and business expertise to help it transform into a commercial venture without overlooking the foundation’s original cause of improving governance standards, Arun Ramu, who was heading Infosys’ $500 million product engineering and validation business, was also looking for a change. After leaving Infosys in August last year, he decided to meet the company’s founders S D Shibulal and Mr Nilekani to find out if there are any opportunities to work in the social sector. “Nandan said that eGovernments wanted somebody to scale up the operation and take charge,” recalls Mr Ramu, who joined eGovernments Foundation as its chief executive in November last year. “People like Mr Ramu have the missionary zeal for taking eGovernments forward,” observes Mr Nadhamuni. When the 48-year old left Infosys last year, he was managing a team of 12,000 and was one of the top ten executives at India’s second biggest software company. He now earns less than a quarter of what he took as salary at Infosys. “It was a leap of faith for me,” says Mr Ramu. Not so for Mr Nilekani with his new assignment, because of eGovernments Foundation. From pheeta.ram at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 17:18:34 2009 From: pheeta.ram at gmail.com (Pheeta Ram) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 17:18:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? In-Reply-To: <253291.74301.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <5bedab660908010938s6e7470f3id86fd9a8112a3735@mail.gmail.com> <253291.74301.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5bedab660908020448p68b54551n8cb19afe22ebd0fc@mail.gmail.com> Kshmendraji, with due regards... You still don't seem to have gone through my previous postings otherwise you certainly would have beaten me sentence by sentence and rendered "threadbare" my juvenile arguments and enlightened me of your stance and my failings deeply desirous of correction. I would love to accompany your enlightened self on a textual discovery of what i have written in order not only to understand myself but also to understand what i "think" about things around me when i write them. Sadly though you are futilely beating innocent air that fills the empty space between the tips of your fingers and the heads of your computer keys. You can savour the "interest" that you have found in how i "'view' religions and the role played by them and what you would like to be done about them." I hope you won't mind sharing this "interest" with others on the discussion forum so that 'we' can at least enter into a constructive discussion, or argument if you will. You obsessively compulsively seem to have been stuck on my usage of the word "shock". I might use the word "interesting" to probe the matters further and construct a valid and definable "problem" which still eludes me and you are reluctant to help me in doing that. Some people have hinted that the things i have been suggesting and writing have already been discussed in the "history of ideas" and i need to plough more to get the hang of things. Now if that be the case and that certainly is, would you mind putting my pseudo-problems/questions/suggestions in perspective. One of my friends has diagnosed the scene in the temple as a simple case of "contemporary urban divided/schizophrenic selves." I admit i am "not in [that much] touch with the realities around" as you are - which to my mind are mighty complex and multi-layered and need a few more loaded "drags" to atleast access their textural nuances. Now something regarding my name: Many people seem to have reserved the hallowed portals of "swarga" just by chanting my name "Ram ! Ram!". I don't have any objection provided they get some breathable space in an already crowded "swarga." I wonder if Indra is thinking of going for skyscrapers. Some of the inhabitants, i am told, are already thinking of building "gated communities" in "swarga": a swarga away from swarga... On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Ram! Ram! Pheeta Ram Ji > > There is no unease over your contribution to the 'threads'. It was on the > contrary interesting to see how you 'view' religions and the role played by > them and what you would like to be done about them. > > I only wanted to understand why were you 'shocked' """" to see many kewl > guys fitted in branded jeans chanting Hanuman Chalisa when i dragged myself > out of curiosity to a temple in Delhi."""""" > > - were you shocked because they were 'guys'? > - were you shocked because they were 'kewl' guys? > - were you shocked because they wore 'jeans'? > - were you shocked because the jeans were 'branded'? > - were you shocked because they were in a 'temple'? > - were you shocked because they were 'chanting'? > - were you shocked because they were chanting 'Hanuman Chalisa'? > > I also found it interesting that it took your being 'dragged' (by yourself) > 'out of curiosity to a temple' to have this "shocking" revelation dawn upon > you. > > Maybe you are not in touch with the realities around you. Please do 'drag' > yourself around a bit more. > > Kshmendra > > --- On *Sat, 8/1/09, Pheeta Ram * wrote: > > > From: Pheeta Ram > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is > God? > To: "Kshmendra Kaul" > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 10:08 PM > > > Is it necessary to reinvent the wheel Kshmendraji? Please refer to the > threads i have been following and let me know "the point" of your unease. > I would like to be corrected if there is scope. > Yours sincerely > Pheeta Ram > > > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > > wrote: > >> Ram! Ram! Pheeta Ram Ji >> >> You wrote: >> >> "I was shocked to see many kewl guys fitted in branded jeans chanting >> Hanuman Chalisa when i dragged myself out of curiosity to a temple in >> Delhi." >> >> Could you please elaborate on why you were "shocked"? >> >> Kshmendra >> >> >> >> --- On *Sat, 8/1/09, Pheeta Ram >> >* wrote: >> >> >> From: Pheeta Ram >> > >> Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? >> To: reader-list at sarai.net >> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 2:35 AM >> >> Dear All, >> I know this won't go down well with most of you but here it is: >> Religions are the basic source of strife and as long as there will be >> religions >> (belief in this God and that) there will be such hostilities. By >> professing >> one religion >> i simultaneously create an other being who, by inference, is either >> follower >> of some religion >> or a pagan. The basic contradiction in all religions is that despite their >> moral-ethical discourse >> regarding oneness of all humanity they are the principal segregators. All >> the saints who have >> walked the earth deluded themselves with such fancies. >> >> Religion is not just a system of belief but also an economy. We depend a >> lot >> upon our religious capital >> for our subsistance. A person who professes to be a member of certain >> community (primarily religious) >> also depends upon it as a kind of umbilical cord and draws sucour. >> >> By now earth has soaked so much blood because of religious strifes that >> sometimes i wonder isn't it time >> to abandon all religious badges and create a ethical moral code drawn from >> all the religions and start believing >> in one community: that is Human. >> >> I think we need to believe in our brother next door and one walking on the >> street or the worker on a Metro site. >> We need to believe that for the survival of humanity we need to believe in >> each other and not on some transcendental >> agency. I wonder why we haven't learnt from our history. The primary >> reason >> why we have failed terribly in creating a >> community of all human beings that walk the earth is because we are >> afraid. >> Afraid to believe in somebody who is in >> front of us in flesh and blood. I remember a man sitting in Blue Line who >> was highly uncomfortable when a profusely sweating migrant labourer got in >> and found a seat, to his great relief, by his side. It is certain that he >> didn't know of the >> religion of that worker but the stench of his sweat and his dirty clothes >> were enough for him to get up and keep standing >> for the rest of his journey. I wonder when we have such intolerence for a >> 'fellow' human beings' honest sweat how would we >> ever begin even thinking about such a Human community. The perils that >> face >> the earth now are reasons enough that we >> start believing in each other and work for the future of humanity by >> shunning all our sectarian tags. But strangely we are busy >> inventing/refurbishing new messiah who would deliver us from the mess that >> we have ourselves created on this earth. >> >> I wonder what stops us from creating a new religion of Humanity. >> >> The advice that comes from scholarly circles regarding all this religious >> intolerance is : Tolerance! >> That we need to tolerate each other. Tolerance is another form of fascism >> or >> nazism, what ever. I won't agree with substituting >> the word toleracne with "respect" or "compassion". Why tolerate the very >> root of strife in the first place. >> >> And yet, sadly, things are not as simple as that. But a time comes when >> we >> have to call a spade a spade. >> We have to shun God to love human beings. There is no other way. Just >> visualize the situation: Two guys are standing in a big stadium in front >> of >> each other, just a metre apart but with their faces 'heaven'wards. Why are >> they afraid to see each other directly. >> Why does the need arise to travel so many light years and then come to >> ones >> brother standing just a meter away. >> >> I know it is plain foolishness to ask somebody whose bread and butter >> depends upon religion to shun it and enter the fold of Humanity where >> people >> believe in people and work with mutual responsibility. But we >> need neo-believers who are foolish enough to >> believe in such a possibility and are ready to work for it. It's a >> long revolution but a possible one. >> >> But, the roadblocks are mighty hard to surpass. Take for instance my case: >> I have a primary school in my neighbourhood, a government one. And >> every morning even before i have got up their assembly begins and the >> chants >> of sacred Hindu mantras begin. All this atma and parmatma stuff. Though i >> don't dispute the sense inherent in the prayer yet aren't we or rather the >> supposedly and proffessedly secular government entering into the business >> of 'mass conversion'. When i have all these religious prayers embedded >> into >> my consciousness right from my childhood can you imagine how much i would >> have to suffer to convert back to the religion of humanity if i convert at >> all and not turn into some religious fanatic. Less said of the schools run >> by one religion or the other the better. >> >> Though the proposal seems indecent yet i think there are madmen enough to >> believe in this long long revolution. >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > > From murali.chalam at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 17:20:50 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 17:20:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: <651501.92528.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <4eab87870907312330h61e61fc5o398b0db4f0456b15@mail.gmail.com> <651501.92528.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908020450i13359089jd3316fcb56b92bf9@mail.gmail.com> Dear Kshmedra, "Touted" I dont need to as I am not marketing it or its concept. I just shared what I have come to understand of it. "Exercise of chanting Gayatri is essentially Pranayama, hence breathing is regulated, chanellised and perfected." This is a quote from " This a quote from "http://www.saibabaforbeginners.com/gayatri.html" Thanks and Regards, V Murali On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 3:22 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Murali > > This is the first time I have heard Gayatri Mantra being touted as a > 'breathing exercise'. Could you please elaborate on that? > > If you were to speak about the benefits of Pranayamic exercises (especially > Ujjayi Pranayam), that would make some sense. But Gayatri Mantra as a > 'breathing exercise'???? > > While on this topic, why not introduce Vuzoo and Namaaz too into your > proposed regime? > > Vuzoo is an excellent habit for maintaining basic cleanliness and Namaaz > entails a set of postures in which (fascinatingly) you can see a digest of > various Yogic Aasanas. > > Kshmendra > > --- On *Sat, 8/1/09, Murali V * wrote: > > > From: Murali V > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS > To: "Pheeta Ram" > Cc: "sarai list" > Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 12:00 PM > > Dear Anupam, > Dear Anupam, > > The issue of uniformity has still not been addressed. A burkha clad girl in > a school cannot be questioned and if done, the media and the entire > pseudo-seculars go all out to call it hindu fanaticism. > > Atma or the soul, life after death and re-birth are concepts which is their > in most faiths. Moreover the Gaytri mantra is also a breathing exercise as > the stanzas repeated in its correct form has set timings to control breath. > > Regards, > V Murali > > > From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 2 18:11:38 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 05:41:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908020450i13359089jd3316fcb56b92bf9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <993055.62821.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Murali   Thank you for the quoting from the Website. I noticed though that these are not the words of Satya Sai Baba. His words are reproduced in quotes.   As far as I am aware, for a Mantra to be a Pranayamic exercise, the recitation of words would have to be matched with specified timings, intensity (and source of breath) linked with Inhalation, Retention and Exhalation (Puraka, Kumbhaka, Rechaka).   As far as I am aware, there is no such regime for the Gayatri Mantra.   You did not comment on my suggestion. Let me repeat it:   """""""" While on this topic, why not introduce Vuzoo and Namaaz too into your proposed regime?            Vuzoo is an excellent habit for maintaining basic cleanliness and Namaaz entails a set of postures in which (fascinatingly) you can see a digest of various Yogic Aasanas.""""""   Kshmendra   --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Murali V wrote: From: Murali V Subject: Re: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS To: "Kshmendra Kaul" Cc: "sarai list" Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 5:20 PM Dear Kshmedra, "Touted" I dont need to as I am not marketing it or its concept. I just shared what I have come to understand of it. "Exercise of chanting Gayatri is essentially Pranayama, hence breathing is regulated, chanellised and perfected." This is a quote from " This a quote from "http://www.saibabaforbeginners.com/gayatri.html" Thanks and Regards, V Murali On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 3:22 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: Dear Murali   This is the first time I have heard Gayatri Mantra being touted as a 'breathing exercise'. Could you please elaborate on that?   If you were to speak about the benefits of Pranayamic exercises (especially Ujjayi Pranayam), that would make some sense. But Gayatri Mantra as a 'breathing exercise'????   While on this topic, why not introduce Vuzoo and Namaaz too into your proposed regime?   Vuzoo is an excellent habit for maintaining basic cleanliness and Namaaz entails a set of postures in which (fascinatingly) you can see a digest of various Yogic Aasanas.   Kshmendra  --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Murali V wrote: From: Murali V Subject: Re: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS To: "Pheeta Ram" Cc: "sarai list" Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 12:00 PM Dear Anupam, Dear Anupam, The issue of uniformity has still not been addressed. A burkha clad girl in a school cannot be questioned and if done, the media and the entire pseudo-seculars go all out to  call it hindu fanaticism. Atma or the soul, life after death and re-birth are concepts which is their in most faiths. Moreover the Gaytri mantra is also a breathing exercise as the stanzas repeated in its correct form has set timings to control breath. Regards, V Murali From pheeta.ram at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 18:57:48 2009 From: pheeta.ram at gmail.com (Pheeta Ram) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 18:57:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? In-Reply-To: <1249203692.S.13996.56124.f6mail-145-155.rediffmail.com.1249206015.56628@webmail.rediffmail.com> References: <1249203692.S.13996.56124.f6mail-145-155.rediffmail.com.1249206015.56628@webmail.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: <5bedab660908020627r243c64c0m70d072f4fdc033b9@mail.gmail.com> Mother...How i wish God were "only boxed within religions" but that, as your divine self has suggested, is certainly not the case. It pervades the ether we are surrounded/constituted by. It is this ethereal substance that cements our social relations. But very sadly, it mercilessly divides us when in moments of "communal" frenzy we helplessly begin wearing our religious identities as our skins. If it includes the members of one community then it simultaneously excludes the members of other religions. This kind of paradox is inbuilt in all "religions" - whether God is in its box or out - like some arcane software embedded/hardwired into my washing machine which when goes corrupt there is no other remedy but to replace the "software" itself. I think the problem i am moving towards defining is not theism vs atheism. This has been adequately debated in the annals of our intellectual histories. I have no idea of this "entire gamut of spirituality" that you are hinting at but according to one newspaper report the word "spirituality" is the most bandied about and the most ambiguous word of our times to the extent that it can also we termed as a "no-meaning" word. Religions, as i wrote before, are living traditions. What would i do if i stop visiting a temple which i have been visiting for the last at least forty years? What should fill the void thus engendered? What need to be the anchor to my reality if i let go or purge myself of the notion of God or belief in some totem? Such questions stare at my face when i put before you such an indecent proposal. And that's good. We have been inventing traditions for so many centuries now, what stops us from inventing some more that include everybody and exclude none. Why are we so afraid to let go of certain categories that have been with us since time immemorial? Our predicament certainly reflects the power that these invented categories have come to exert upon us. Polytheism doesn't solve our problem because we even then refuse to take responsibility of ourselves, our fellow beings, our society, our earth and our future generations. Whether we believe in One God or have a fractured notion of God or believe that many heavenly beings attend upon my destiny the problem remains as i begin counting from "One" onwards. Why is it said that "God made the integers"? Why is it that theists can live without any problem in a solitary confinement of a dark cave for as much time as they want and an atheist would run for the society within 24 hours of confinement? Who would you prefer: somebody who is happy sitting in some cave in the himalayas without any concern for the society or somebody who lives among human beings? I agree with you, religion is a very very serious business and no "pastime"; its not for nothing that we also talk of economies of religions. From elites to the masses all are involved in this busy-ness. From elites in their designer suits to a plain worker in tattered clothes all pay obeisance at the altar of God or Gods( eventually it comes to number 1). Religion is a very serious business that also provides us with soap operatic entertainment. I don't have anything else to put in place of God, and i am afraid of the void that remains and so i cling on to whatever i have, something is better than nothing, am i right?. Its a very very strange thing that it's you who have invoked Marx without naming him: "Religion is the opium of the masses." Sadly i don't have a grounding in Marxism but i have been told that many important experiments were done in Russia and China in its name and a proper knowledge of the history and practice of marxism would be not out of place in the context of my line of inquiry. I am depending upon somebody in this forum to pitch in from the Marxist side to broaden the scope of my "proposal" or atleast "cut it to size" but sadly no response is being posted. And i am terribly afraid to even flip through hardbound tomes on Marxism. But someday i would, i assure you, though it doesn't and won't matter even remotely to you. Che: how i wish i could confess myself to being an expert on Che. That would need a lot of reading beyond the scope of my present engagements. A superficial understanding of his life and work gleaned from Wikipedia seems to be enough for me and i would recommend this small dose to all those kewl guys who flaunt T-shirts with his face on them. My purpose of beginning this discussion is not to laugh at the masses who as they say "live" their religion, and truly so. I think my entire unease is at the proliferation of hatred against our fellow beings and its invading our everyday lives. Riots have traumatised our contemporary selves and i shudder at seeing the extent to which we can go to assert our "religious" identities not verbally but by writing them with blood on other people's bodies. According to one science magazine: people who believe in "God," or in their words "believers," live more happily than the non-believers. Believers even get well quickly if they ever fall ill. So if i am distraught in casuality ward of AIIMS trauma centre one sure shot medicine is "belief". But, let me tell you that by invoking these categories i am courting the danger of falling in the usual binary essentialism of "theism" and "atheism." Both are the same when it comes to defining the identities: the principal marker of one's identity, whether of acceptance or denial still remains God. If i am an atheist: i define my identity as being one "who doesn't believe" in God and there's the rub. Why does God/my religion become the ultimate marker of my identity? What are the other possible markers that i must "invent" in order to at least assure the coming generations a riot free life full of harmony where everydbody takes the burden of responsibility, at least i have the right to dream about such a society...don't I, motherdivine? On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 3:10 PM, motherdivine wrote: > > Hi, > > there is yet another strand to religion Vs non religion. You are wrongly > assuming that God is only boxed within religions, that are according to one > perspective the "cause'  of all strife.As Murali said there are other > ways... God as outside reilgion. there is the entire gamut of > spirituality  (you may say this is pagan religion but hey you are > classifying lifestyles from an eliete monotheistic perspective in that > case!) so, the views till now of  brainwashed atheists and pro hinduism > group are quite sad to note. Move on ppl this is the twentieth century! > > Also, self proclaimed "expert on Che" aka Pheeta Ram, according to you the > cool ppl (like you?) dont read religious tests, neither do they visit > worship shrines which are visited by uncool masses (religion is the opium of > the masses) who wear unbranded jeans and are of a much lower class than your > majesty.  > > Ha ha ha so religion for you is some passtime of idiotic others which you > view as entertainment as and when you please! > H ha ha ha > ciao! > > > > > > On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 14:31:32 +0530 wrote > >Ram! Ram! Pheeta Ram Ji > > > >There is no unease over your contribution to the 'threads'. It was on > the contrary interesting to see how you 'view' religions and the role played > by them and what you would like to be done about them. > > > >I only wanted to understand why were you 'shocked' """" to see many > kewl guys fitted in branded jeans chanting Hanuman Chalisa when i dragged > myself out of curiosity to a temple in Delhi."""""" > > > >- were you shocked because they were 'guys'? > >- were you shocked because they were 'kewl' guys? > >- were you shocked because they wore 'jeans'? > >- were you shocked because the jeans were 'branded'? > >- were you shocked because they were in a 'temple'? > >- were you shocked because they were 'chanting'? > >- were you shocked because they were chanting 'Hanuman Chalisa'? > > > >I also found it interesting that it took your being 'dragged' (by > yourself) 'out of curiosity to a temple' to have this "shocking" revelation > dawn upon you. > > > >Maybe you are not in touch with the realities around you. Please do > 'drag' yourself around a bit more. > > > >Kshmendra > > > >--- On Sat, 8/1/09, Pheeta Ram wrote: > > > > > >From: Pheeta Ram > >Subject: Re: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there > is God? > >To: "Kshmendra Kaul" <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > > > >Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > >Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 10:08 PM > > > > > >Is it necessary to reinvent the wheel Kshmendraji? Please refer to the > threads i have been following and let me > >know "the point" of your unease. I would like to be corrected if there > is scope. > > > >Yours sincerely > >Pheeta Ram > > > > > > > > > > > > > >On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Kshmendra Kaul & > lt;kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ram! Ram! Pheeta Ram Ji > > > > > >You wrote: > > > >"I was shocked to see many kewl guys fitted in branded jeans chanting > Hanuman Chalisa when i dragged myself out of curiosity to a temple in > Delhi." > > > >Could you please elaborate on why you were "shocked"? > > > >Kshmendra > > > > > > > >--- On Sat, 8/1/09, Pheeta Ram wrote: > > > > > >From: Pheeta Ram > >Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is > God? > >To: reader-list at sarai.net > >Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 2:35 AM > > > > > > > > > > > >Dear All, > >I know this won't go down well with most of you but here it is: > >Religions are the basic source of strife and as long as there will be > >religions > >(belief in this God and that) there will be such hostilities. By > professing > >one religion > >i simultaneously create an other being who, by inference, is either > follower > >of some religion > >or a pagan. The basic contradiction in all religions is that despite > their > >moral-ethical discourse > >regarding oneness of all humanity they are the principal segregators. > All > >the saints who have > >walked the earth deluded themselves with such fancies. > > > >Religion is not just a system of belief but also an economy. We depend > a lot > >upon our religious capital > >for our subsistance. A person who professes to be a member of certain > >community (primarily religious) > >also depends upon it as a kind of umbilical cord and draws sucour. > > > >By now earth has soaked so much blood because of religious strifes that > >sometimes i wonder isn't it time > >to abandon all religious badges and create a ethical moral code drawn > from > >all the religions and start believing > >in one community: that is Human. > > > >I think we need to believe in our brother next door and one walking on > the > >street or the worker on a Metro site. > >We need to believe that for the survival of humanity we need to believe > in > >each other and not on some transcendental > >agency. I wonder why we haven't learnt from our history. The primary > reason > >why we have failed terribly in creating a > >community of all human beings that walk the earth is because we are > afraid. > >Afraid to believe in somebody who is in > >front of us in flesh and blood. I remember a man sitting in Blue Line > who > >was highly uncomfortable when a profusely sweating migrant labourer got > in > >and found a seat, to his great relief, by his side. It is certain that > he > >didn't know of the > >religion of that worker but the stench of his sweat and his dirty > clothes > >were enough for him to get up and keep standing > >for the rest of his journey. I wonder when we have such intolerence for > a > >'fellow' human beings' honest sweat how would we > >ever begin even thinking about such a Human community. The perils that > face > >the earth now are reasons enough that we > >start believing in each other and work for the future of humanity by > >shunning all our sectarian tags. But strangely we are busy > >inventing/refurbishing new messiah who would deliver us from the mess > that > >we have ourselves created on this earth. > > > >I wonder what stops us from creating a new religion of Humanity. > > > >The advice that comes from scholarly circles regarding all this > religious > >intolerance is :Tolerance! > >That we need to tolerate each other. Tolerance is another form of > fascism or > >nazism, what ever. I won't agree with substituting > >the word toleracne with "respect" or "compassion". Why tolerate the > very > >root of strife in the first place. > > > >And yet, sadly, things are not as simple as that. But a time comes when > we > >have to call a spade a spade. > >We have to shun God to love human beings. There is no other way. Just > >visualize the situation: Two guys are standing in a big stadium in > front of > >each other, just a metre apart but with their faces 'heaven'wards. Why > are > >they afraid to see each other directly. > >Why does the need arise to travel so many light years and then come to > ones > >brother standing just a meter away. > > > >I know it is plain foolishness to ask somebody whose bread and butter > >depends upon religion to shun it and enter the fold of Humanity where > people > >believe in people and work with mutual responsibility. But we > >need neo-believers who are foolish enough to > >believe in such a possibility and are ready to work for it. It's a > >long revolution but a possible one. > > > >But, the roadblocks are mighty hard to surpass. Take for instance my > case: > >I have a primary school in my neighbourhood, a government one. And > >every morning even before i have got up their assembly begins and the > chants > >of sacred Hindu mantras begin. All this atma and parmatma stuff. Though > i > >don't dispute the sense inherent in the prayer yet aren't we or rather > the > >supposedly and proffessedly secular government entering into the > business > >of 'mass conversion'. When i have all these religious prayers embedded > into > >my consciousness right from my childhood can you imagine how much i > would > >have to suffer to convert back to the religion of humanity if i convert > at > >all and not turn into some religious fanatic. Less said of the schools > run > >by one religion or the other the better. > > > >Though the proposal seems indecent yet i think there are madmen enough > to > >believe in this long long revolution. > > > >_________________________________________ > >reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >Critiques & Collaborations > >To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > >To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________ > >reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >Critiques & Collaborations > >To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > >To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From c.anupam at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 19:13:37 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 19:13:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? In-Reply-To: <5bedab660908020627r243c64c0m70d072f4fdc033b9@mail.gmail.com> References: <1249203692.S.13996.56124.f6mail-145-155.rediffmail.com.1249206015.56628@webmail.rediffmail.com> <5bedab660908020627r243c64c0m70d072f4fdc033b9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00908020643u565dbee9v5708e4faefb21f76@mail.gmail.com> Dear Ram, Communal frenzy finds god or spirituality as an excuse. However, mostly its about land, about their own rights, about having a say in the society of human beings, about priests and maulvis, maintaining social heirarchy. I presume you have a problem with organised religions not with spirituality or in faith per se. -anupam From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 2 19:39:06 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 07:09:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? In-Reply-To: <5bedab660908020448p68b54551n8cb19afe22ebd0fc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <342671.94897.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Ram! Ram! Pheeta Ram Ji   Ram Naam Satya Hai. The proof of that is evident in my chanting your name and being blessed with Murali Ji guiding me to Shri Satya Baba's wisdom on Gayatri Mantra.   Verily in chanting your name the portals of "Swarga" will open up in This World and the Other and in the somewhere in-between World of this Reader List. You have already designed one such "gated community Swarga" where there will be no religion other than the religion of "No Religion".   Past your gates there will be "Humanity", "Respect", "Compassion" which these foolish subscribers to Religions claim are resident in the teachings they follow but little do they know those are 'illusions' propagated to hold them captive in their illusory worlds. How dare they talk of "Tolerance", that is "fascist" deviousness. These Spiritual Seekers (SS)  are Nazis. Ban them all.   We shall also ban all those in whose name there has been any kind of blood-letting or blood-sucking, the Capitalists, the Communists, THIS-ists and THAT-ists. We shall tear apart all seams and if left threadbare, that is how we shall be. No "carnivore" will exist in our 'Swarga". Human and Beast shall turn vegetarian. Sifting out fish-eat-fish Marine Life might pose a problem. Dekha jayega.   Incidentally I loved this sentence of yours :   """"""   Sadly though you are futilely beating innocent air that fills the empty space between the tips of your fingers and the heads of your computer keys. """""   You seem to think that I disagree with your philosophical comments on Religion and/or Those-Of-A-Religion. I do not, even if I find you tunnelling your comments into bays of generalised dismisiveness. Not surprising, since you seek "Revolution". I plug for "Evolution". The Ocean is the "Swarga" though, be the flow leading to it placid or ferocious.     Yes, your use of the word "shocked" was rather shocking considering that it was devoid of any meaningful insight in what you were trying to say, in an otherwise 'ferocious' but interesting commentary. "Interesting" might have been more interesting.   All ends where it begins. Ram! Ram!   Kshmendra  --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Pheeta Ram wrote: From: Pheeta Ram Subject: Re: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? To: "Kshmendra Kaul" Cc: reader-list at sarai.net Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 5:18 PM Kshmendraji, with due regards... You still don't seem to have gone through my previous postings otherwise you certainly would have beaten me sentence by sentence and rendered "threadbare" my juvenile arguments and enlightened me of your stance and my failings deeply desirous of correction. I would love to accompany your enlightened self on a textual discovery of what i have written in order not only to understand myself but also to understand what i "think" about things around me when i write them. Sadly though you are futilely beating innocent air that fills the empty space between the tips of your fingers and the heads of your computer keys. You can savour the "interest" that you have found in how i "'view' religions and the role played by them and what you would like to be done about them." I hope you won't mind sharing this "interest" with others on the discussion forum so that 'we' can at least enter into a constructive discussion, or argument if you will.  You obsessively compulsively seem to have been stuck on my usage of the word "shock". I might use the word "interesting" to probe the matters further and construct a valid and definable "problem" which still eludes me and you are reluctant to help me in doing that. Some people have hinted that the things i have been suggesting and writing have already been discussed in the "history of ideas" and i need to plough more to get the hang of things. Now if that be the case and that certainly is, would you mind putting my pseudo-problems/questions/suggestions in perspective. One of my friends has diagnosed the scene in the temple as a simple case of "contemporary urban divided/schizophrenic selves."  I admit i am "not in [that much] touch with the realities around" as you are - which to my mind are mighty complex and multi-layered and need a few more loaded "drags" to atleast access their textural nuances.  Now something regarding my name: Many people seem to have reserved the hallowed portals of "swarga" just by chanting my name "Ram ! Ram!". I don't have any objection provided they get some breathable space in an already crowded "swarga." I wonder if Indra is thinking of going for skyscrapers. Some of the inhabitants, i am told, are already thinking of building "gated communities" in "swarga": a swarga away from swarga...      On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: Ram! Ram! Pheeta Ram Ji   There is no unease over your contribution to the 'threads'. It was on the contrary interesting to see how you 'view' religions and the role played by them and what you would like to be done about them.   I only wanted to understand why were you 'shocked' """" to see many kewl guys fitted in branded jeans chanting Hanuman Chalisa when i dragged myself out of curiosity to a temple in Delhi.""""""   - were you shocked because they were 'guys'? - were you shocked because they were 'kewl' guys? - were you shocked because they wore 'jeans'? - were you shocked because the jeans were 'branded'? - were you shocked  because they were in a 'temple'? - were you shocked because they were 'chanting'? - were you shocked because they were chanting 'Hanuman Chalisa'?   I also found it interesting that it took your being 'dragged' (by yourself) 'out of curiosity to a temple' to have this "shocking" revelation dawn upon you.   Maybe you are not in touch with the realities around you. Please do 'drag' yourself around a bit more.   Kshmendra --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Pheeta Ram wrote: From: Pheeta Ram Subject: Re: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? To: "Kshmendra Kaul" Cc: reader-list at sarai.net Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 10:08 PM Is it necessary to reinvent the wheel Kshmendraji? Please refer to the threads i have been following and let me know "the point" of your unease. I would like to be corrected if there is scope. Yours sincerely Pheeta Ram On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: Ram! Ram! Pheeta Ram Ji   You wrote:   "I was shocked to see many kewl guys fitted in branded jeans chanting Hanuman Chalisa when i dragged myself out of curiosity to a temple in Delhi."   Could you please elaborate on why you were "shocked"?   Kshmendra   --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Pheeta Ram wrote: From: Pheeta Ram Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? To: reader-list at sarai.net Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 2:35 AM Dear All, I know this won't go down well with most of you but here it is: Religions are the basic source of strife and as long as there will be religions (belief in this God and that) there will be such hostilities. By professing one religion i simultaneously create an other being who, by inference, is either follower of some religion or a pagan. The basic contradiction in all religions is that despite their moral-ethical discourse regarding oneness of all humanity they are the principal segregators. All the saints who have walked the earth deluded themselves with such fancies. Religion is not just a system of belief but also an economy. We depend a lot upon our religious capital for our subsistance. A person who professes to be a member of certain community (primarily religious) also depends upon it as a kind of umbilical cord and draws sucour. By now earth has soaked so much blood because of religious strifes that sometimes i wonder isn't it time to abandon all religious badges and create a ethical moral code drawn from all the religions and start believing in one community: that is Human. I think we need to believe in our brother next door and one walking on the street or the worker on a Metro site. We need to believe that for the survival of humanity we need to believe in each other and not on some transcendental agency. I wonder why we haven't learnt from our history. The primary reason why we have failed terribly in creating a community of all human beings that walk the earth is because we are afraid. Afraid to believe in somebody who is in front of us in flesh and blood. I remember a man sitting in Blue Line who was highly uncomfortable when a profusely sweating migrant labourer got in and found a seat, to his great relief, by his side. It is certain that he didn't know of the religion of that worker but the stench of his sweat and his dirty clothes were enough for him to get up and keep standing for the rest of his journey. I wonder when we have such intolerence for a 'fellow' human beings' honest sweat how would we ever begin even thinking about such a Human community. The perils that face the earth now are reasons enough that we start believing in each other and work for the future of humanity by shunning all our sectarian tags. But strangely we are busy inventing/refurbishing new messiah who would deliver us from the mess that we have ourselves created on this earth. I wonder what stops us from creating a new religion of Humanity. The advice that comes from scholarly circles regarding all this religious intolerance is : Tolerance! That we need to tolerate each other. Tolerance is another form of fascism or nazism, what ever. I won't agree with substituting the word toleracne with "respect" or "compassion". Why tolerate the very root of strife in the first place. And yet, sadly, things are not as simple as that. But  a time comes when we have to call a spade a spade. We have to shun God to love human beings. There is no other way. Just visualize the situation: Two guys are standing in a big stadium in front of each other, just a metre apart but with their faces 'heaven'wards. Why are they afraid to see each other directly. Why does the need arise to travel so many light years and then come to ones brother standing just a meter away. I know it is plain foolishness to ask somebody whose bread and butter depends upon religion to shun it and enter the fold of Humanity where people believe in people and work with mutual responsibility. But we need neo-believers who are foolish enough to believe in such a possibility and are ready to work for it. It's a long revolution but a possible one. But, the roadblocks are mighty hard to surpass. Take for instance my case: I have a primary school in my neighbourhood, a government one. And every morning even before i have got up their assembly begins and the chants of sacred Hindu mantras begin. All this atma and parmatma stuff. Though i don't dispute the sense inherent in the prayer yet aren't we or rather the supposedly and proffessedly secular government entering into the business of 'mass conversion'. When i have all these religious prayers embedded into my consciousness right from my childhood can you imagine how much i would have to suffer to convert back to the religion of humanity if i convert at all and not turn into some religious fanatic. Less said of the schools run by one religion or the other the better. Though the proposal seems indecent yet i think there are madmen enough to believe in this long long revolution. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 2 19:59:12 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 07:29:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? In-Reply-To: <5bedab660908020627r243c64c0m70d072f4fdc033b9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <582364.4230.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Ram! Ram! Pheeta Ram Ji   That is extremely well written   Kshmendra --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Pheeta Ram wrote: From: Pheeta Ram Subject: Re: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? To: "motherdivine" Cc: reader-list at sarai.net Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 6:57 PM Mother...How i wish God were "only boxed within religions" but that, as your divine self has suggested, is certainly not the case. It pervades the ether we are surrounded/constituted by. It is this ethereal substance that cements our social relations. But very sadly, it mercilessly divides us when in moments of "communal" frenzy we helplessly begin wearing our religious identities as our skins. If it includes the members of one community then it simultaneously excludes the members of other religions. This kind of paradox is inbuilt in all "religions" - whether God is in its box or out - like some arcane software embedded/hardwired into my washing machine which when goes corrupt there is no other remedy but to replace the "software" itself. I think the problem i am moving towards defining is not theism vs atheism. This has been adequately debated in the annals of our intellectual histories. I have no idea of this "entire gamut of spirituality" that you are hinting at but according to one newspaper report the word "spirituality" is the most bandied about and the most ambiguous word of our times to the extent that it can also we termed as a "no-meaning" word. Religions, as i wrote before, are living traditions. What would i do if i stop visiting a temple which i have been visiting for the last at least forty years? What should fill the void thus engendered? What need to be the anchor to my reality if i let go or purge myself of the notion of God or belief in some totem? Such questions stare at my face when i put before you such an indecent proposal. And that's good. We have been inventing traditions for so many centuries now, what stops us from inventing some more that include everybody and exclude none. Why are we so afraid to let go of certain categories that have been with us since time immemorial? Our predicament certainly reflects the power that these invented categories have come to exert upon us. Polytheism doesn't solve our problem because we even then refuse to take responsibility of ourselves, our fellow beings, our society, our earth and our future generations. Whether we believe in One God or have a fractured notion of God or believe that many heavenly beings attend upon my destiny the problem remains as i begin counting from "One" onwards. Why is it said that "God made the integers"? Why is it that theists can live without any problem in a solitary confinement of a dark cave for as much time as they want and an atheist would run for the society within 24 hours of confinement? Who would you prefer: somebody who is happy sitting in some cave in the himalayas without any concern for the society or somebody who lives among human beings? I agree with you, religion is a very very serious business and no "pastime"; its not for nothing that we also talk of economies of religions. From elites to the masses all are involved in this busy-ness. From elites in their designer suits to a plain worker in tattered clothes all pay obeisance at the altar of God or Gods( eventually it comes to number 1). Religion is a very serious business that also provides us with soap operatic entertainment. I don't have anything else to put in place of God, and i am afraid of the void that remains and so i cling on to whatever i have, something is better than nothing, am i right?. Its a very very strange thing that it's you who have invoked Marx without naming him: "Religion is the opium of the masses." Sadly i don't have a grounding in Marxism but i have been told that many important experiments were done in Russia and China in its name and a proper knowledge of the history and practice of marxism would be not out of place in the context of my line of inquiry. I am depending upon  somebody in this forum to pitch in from the Marxist side to broaden the scope of my "proposal" or atleast "cut it to size" but sadly no response is being posted. And i am terribly afraid to even flip through hardbound tomes on Marxism. But someday i would, i assure you, though it doesn't and won't matter even remotely to you. Che: how i wish i could confess myself to being an expert on Che. That would need a lot of reading beyond the scope of my present engagements. A superficial understanding of his life and work gleaned from Wikipedia seems to be enough for me and i would recommend this small dose to all those kewl guys who flaunt T-shirts with his face on them. My purpose of beginning this discussion is not to laugh at the masses who as they say "live" their religion, and truly so. I think my entire unease is at the proliferation of hatred against our fellow beings and its invading our everyday lives. Riots have traumatised our contemporary selves and i shudder at seeing the extent to which we can go to assert our "religious" identities not verbally but by writing them with blood on other people's bodies. According to one science magazine: people who believe in "God," or in their words "believers," live more happily than the non-believers. Believers even get well quickly if they ever fall ill. So if i am distraught in casuality ward of AIIMS trauma centre one sure shot medicine is "belief".  But, let me tell you that by invoking these categories i am courting the danger of falling in the usual binary essentialism of "theism" and "atheism." Both are the same when it comes to defining the identities: the principal marker of one's identity, whether of acceptance or denial still remains God. If i am an atheist: i define my identity as being one "who doesn't believe" in God and there's the rub. Why does God/my religion become the ultimate marker of my identity? What are the other possible markers that i must "invent" in order to at least assure the coming generations a riot free life full of harmony where everydbody takes the burden of responsibility, at least i have the right to dream about such a society...don't I, motherdivine? On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 3:10 PM, motherdivine wrote: > > Hi, > > there is yet another strand to religion Vs non religion. You are wrongly > assuming that God is only boxed within religions, that are according to one > perspective the "cause'  of all strife.As Murali said there are other > ways... God as outside reilgion. there is the entire gamut of > spirituality  (you may say this is pagan religion but hey you are > classifying lifestyles from an eliete monotheistic perspective in that > case!) so, the views till now of  brainwashed atheists and pro hinduism > group are quite sad to note. Move on ppl this is the twentieth century! > > Also, self proclaimed "expert on Che" aka Pheeta Ram, according to you the > cool ppl (like you?) dont read religious tests, neither do they visit > worship shrines which are visited by uncool masses (religion is the opium of > the masses) who wear unbranded jeans and are of a much lower class than your > majesty.  > > Ha ha ha so religion for you is some passtime of idiotic others which you > view as entertainment as and when you please! > H ha ha ha > ciao! > > > > > > On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 14:31:32 +0530  wrote > >Ram! Ram! Pheeta Ram Ji > > > >There is no unease over your contribution to the 'threads'. It was on > the contrary interesting to see how you 'view' religions and the role played > by them and what you would like to be done about them. > > > >I only wanted to understand why were you 'shocked' """" to see many > kewl guys fitted in branded jeans chanting Hanuman Chalisa when i dragged > myself out of curiosity to a temple in Delhi."""""" > > > >- were you shocked because they were 'guys'? > >- were you shocked because they were 'kewl' guys? > >- were you shocked because they wore 'jeans'? > >- were you shocked because the jeans were 'branded'? > >- were you shocked because they were in a 'temple'? > >- were you shocked because they were 'chanting'? > >- were you shocked because they were chanting 'Hanuman Chalisa'? > > > >I also found it interesting that it took your being 'dragged' (by > yourself) 'out of curiosity to a temple' to have this "shocking" revelation > dawn upon you. > > > >Maybe you are not in touch with the realities around you. Please do > 'drag' yourself around a bit more. > > > >Kshmendra > > > >--- On Sat, 8/1/09, Pheeta Ram  wrote: > > > > > >From: Pheeta Ram > >Subject: Re: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there > is God? > >To: "Kshmendra Kaul" <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > > > >Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > >Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 10:08 PM > > > > > >Is it necessary to reinvent the wheel Kshmendraji? Please refer to the > threads i have been following and let me > >know "the point" of your unease. I would like to be corrected if there > is scope. > > > >Yours sincerely > >Pheeta Ram > > > > > > > > > > > > > >On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Kshmendra Kaul & > lt;kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ram! Ram! Pheeta Ram Ji > > > > > >You wrote: > > > >"I was shocked to see many kewl guys fitted in branded jeans chanting > Hanuman Chalisa when i dragged myself out of curiosity to a temple in > Delhi." > > > >Could you please elaborate on why you were "shocked"? > > > >Kshmendra > > > > > > > >--- On Sat, 8/1/09, Pheeta Ram  wrote: > > > > > >From: Pheeta Ram > >Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is > God? > >To: reader-list at sarai.net > >Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 2:35 AM > > > > > > > > > > > >Dear All, > >I know this won't go down well with most of you but here it is: > >Religions are the basic source of strife and as long as there will be > >religions > >(belief in this God and that) there will be such hostilities. By > professing > >one religion > >i simultaneously create an other being who, by inference, is either > follower > >of some religion > >or a pagan. The basic contradiction in all religions is that despite > their > >moral-ethical discourse > >regarding oneness of all humanity they are the principal segregators. > All > >the saints who have > >walked the earth deluded themselves with such fancies. > > > >Religion is not just a system of belief but also an economy. We depend > a lot > >upon our religious capital > >for our subsistance. A person who professes to be a member of certain > >community (primarily religious) > >also depends upon it as a kind of umbilical cord and draws sucour. > > > >By now earth has soaked so much blood because of religious strifes that > >sometimes i wonder isn't it time > >to abandon all religious badges and create a ethical moral code drawn > from > >all the religions and start believing > >in one community: that is Human. > > > >I think we need to believe in our brother next door and one walking on > the > >street or the worker on a Metro site. > >We need to believe that for the survival of humanity we need to believe > in > >each other and not on some transcendental > >agency. I wonder why we haven't learnt from our history. The primary > reason > >why we have failed terribly in creating a > >community of all human beings that walk the earth is because we are > afraid. > >Afraid to believe in somebody who is in > >front of us in flesh and blood. I remember a man sitting in Blue Line > who > >was highly uncomfortable when a profusely sweating migrant labourer got > in > >and found a seat, to his great relief, by his side. It is certain that > he > >didn't know of the > >religion of that worker but the stench of his sweat and his dirty > clothes > >were enough for him to get up and keep standing > >for the rest of his journey. I wonder when we have such intolerence for > a > >'fellow' human beings' honest sweat how would we > >ever begin even thinking about such a Human community. The perils that > face > >the earth now are reasons enough that we > >start believing in each other and work for the future of humanity by > >shunning all our sectarian tags. But strangely we are busy > >inventing/refurbishing new messiah who would deliver us from the mess > that > >we have ourselves created on this earth. > > > >I wonder what stops us from creating a new religion of Humanity. > > > >The advice that comes from scholarly circles regarding all this > religious > >intolerance is :Tolerance! > >That we need to tolerate each other. Tolerance is another form of > fascism or > >nazism, what ever. I won't agree with substituting > >the word toleracne with "respect" or "compassion". Why tolerate the > very > >root of strife in the first place. > > > >And yet, sadly, things are not as simple as that. But a time comes when > we > >have to call a spade a spade. > >We have to shun God to love human beings. There is no other way. Just > >visualize the situation: Two guys are standing in a big stadium in > front of > >each other, just a metre apart but with their faces 'heaven'wards. Why > are > >they afraid to see each other directly. > >Why does the need arise to travel so many light years and then come to > ones > >brother standing just a meter away. > > > >I know it is plain foolishness to ask somebody whose bread and butter > >depends upon religion to shun it and enter the fold of Humanity where > people > >believe in people and work with mutual responsibility. But we > >need neo-believers who are foolish enough to > >believe in such a possibility and are ready to work for it. It's a > >long revolution but a possible one. > > > >But, the roadblocks are mighty hard to surpass. Take for instance my > case: > >I have a primary school in my neighbourhood, a government one. And > >every morning even before i have got up their assembly begins and the > chants > >of sacred Hindu mantras begin. All this atma and parmatma stuff. Though > i > >don't dispute the sense inherent in the prayer yet aren't we or rather > the > >supposedly and proffessedly secular government entering into the > business > >of 'mass conversion'. When i have all these religious prayers embedded > into > >my consciousness right from my childhood can you imagine how much i > would > >have to suffer to convert back to the religion of humanity if i convert > at > >all and not turn into some religious fanatic. Less said of the schools > run > >by one religion or the other the better. > > > >Though the proposal seems indecent yet i think there are madmen enough > to > >believe in this long long revolution. > > > >_________________________________________ > >reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >Critiques & Collaborations > >To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > >To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________ > >reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >Critiques & Collaborations > >To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > >To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pheeta.ram at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 21:05:53 2009 From: pheeta.ram at gmail.com (Pheeta Ram) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 21:05:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? In-Reply-To: <341380d00908020643u565dbee9v5708e4faefb21f76@mail.gmail.com> References: <1249203692.S.13996.56124.f6mail-145-155.rediffmail.com.1249206015.56628@webmail.rediffmail.com> <5bedab660908020627r243c64c0m70d072f4fdc033b9@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908020643u565dbee9v5708e4faefb21f76@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5bedab660908020835v6af19aa8oaec0b28c2ffb2d2d@mail.gmail.com> Dear Anupam organised religion = = spirituality = = faith : all have one common denominator and i have, i think, an existential problem with all these categories. All serve one master. I agree when you point out that "mostly its about land, about their own rights, about having a say in the society of human beings, about priests and maulvis, maintaining social hierarchy." But why hold on to something that comes handy as an excellent "excuse" while committing a crime against my fellow brother? I love my fellow being but i won't ascribe it the name of "spirituality" because then with it would come the attendant "garbage" that i won't be able to get rid of. Somebody said the next world war would be over the definition of categories. So true. On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 7:13 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Ram, > > Communal frenzy finds god or spirituality as an excuse. However, mostly its > about land, about their own rights, about having a say in the society of > human beings, about priests and maulvis, maintaining social heirarchy. I > presume you have a problem with organised religions not with spirituality > or > in faith per se. > > -anupam > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From iram at sarai.net Sun Aug 2 22:04:09 2009 From: iram at sarai.net (Iram Ghufran) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 22:04:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Someone draws a flower on a wall beside a bed - an exhibition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A75C001.4040308@sarai.net> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > Someone draws a flower on a wall beside a bed - an exhibition > From: > Alana Victoria Hunt > Date: > Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:39:57 +0530 > To: > reader-list at sarai.net > > To: > reader-list at sarai.net > > > spread the word.... > > > > */Someone draws a flower on a wall beside a bed/* > > *An act, an image, a possibility* > > > > Exhibition opening: Tuesday 4^th August, 2009, 6-8pm. > > > > The title of this exhibition is a simple sentence that presents us > with an act, an image, and a possibility. It evokes a certain kind of > poetic potentiality in the everyday, and opens a door for exploration > into things that can be simultaneously meaningless and meaningful > depending on how and from where you’re looking and feeling. > > > > /Someone draws a flower on a wall beside a bed /draws upon this > potentiality in order to open up a space in which to creatively > explore and discuss the idea of the life in art. > > > > The exhibition will bring together a range of eclectic works which > respond to the central concerns of the exhibition in diverse, engaging > and at times wonderfully contradictory ways. > > > > There will be bread from Kashmir, painting as digital confetti, a > domestic clothes line, short stories, sounds from Delhi’s streetscape, > paper airplanes and childhood dreams, a typography of accidental signs > made from egg cartons, an exploration of the systematization of > behavior, videos of wandering lamps, of water colour portraits coming > to life, of thirst and labour, factories and making, of borders and > transgression, of the politics of female toilet signs, cleanliness and > communication, images of war danced, and of breath, life, and the > creative process. Public interventions will enter the gallery and as > works emerge from the site directly; the gallery space itself will > become a site of intervention. > > > > The curatorial approach works to create juxtapositions of perspective > and ideas, to build subtle associations, and to assemble the space as > a larger participatory project in itself through the idea of > facilitating shared experience. > > > > The participating artists in the exhibition includes established and > emerging artists as well as practitioners who don’t usually, or have > never before, labeled themselves as artists at all, and will bring > together in the School of Arts and Aesthetics Galleries of JNU works > from Delhi, Bangalore, Pune, Sydney, Melbourne, Seoul, New York and > Guatemala City. > > > > Participating artists include Ingrid Dernee, Dipa Donde, Dhruba Dutta, > Manola K. Gayatri, Bani Gill, Natasha Ginwala, Iram Ghufran, Rosita > Holmes, Alana Hunt, Ish, Thomas Jacob, Ein Lall, Sophea Lerner, Ila > Mehrotra, Ojasvi Mohanty, Arka Mukhopadhyay, Grace Needlman, Yoon Jung > Oh, Aliya Pabani, Bhagwati Prasad, Andrew Robards, Paroma Sadhana, > Inder Salim, Anthony Sawrey, Sylvia Schwenk, Beatriz Veliz and Anna > Williams. > > > > This project has been initiated and curated by Alana Hunt. > > > > August 5 - 20, 2009 > > The School of Arts and Aesthetics Galleries, > > Jawaharlal Nehru University, Delhi > > > > All are invited. > > > > For further information please contact (+91) 9811 989 325 > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 08:18:51 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 08:18:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 5 Message-ID: ------------------------------ [image: Frontline] *Volume 21 - Issue 14, Jul. 03 - 16, 2004* India's National Magazine from the publishers of THE HINDU Home *•* Contents ------------------------------ [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] *EVENTS* * An unconventional convention * JEAN DREZE * A convention in Bhopal offers an opportunity to share the experiences of the struggle for the right to food and work, and to explore possibilities of further action. * * At a rally on June 13, the concluding day of the convention. The placard reads: "Freedom from Hunger." * THIS is a preliminary, informal and somewhat personal account of a recent convention on the right to food and work, held in Bhopal on June 11-13, 2004. It is preliminary and informal because the proceedings are not available at the time of writing. It is somewhat personal because, as a member of the "programme committee", my experience of the convention is bound to be quite subjective. Making a virtue out of necessity, I shall try to share, as openly as possible, my perception of the achievements and limitations of this convention. The convention was facilitated by the support group of the "right to food campaign", in collaboration with a dozen like-minded networks.1 The decision to call the convention was taken at a meeting held in Mumbai in January 2004, on the sidelines of the World Social Forum and Mumbai Resistance. A common need was felt, at that time, for an opportunity to share the experiences of the struggle for the right to food and work, and to explore possibilities of further action. As it turned out, the convention was timely, coming as it did in the wake of the 2004 parliamentary elections. With the dramatic rout of the National Democratic Alliance (NDA) government, deeply hostile to democratic rights and responsible for gross violations of the right to food (such as the accumulation of 70 million tonnes of grain in public warehouses at a time of widespread hunger), the air felt cleaner and there was a new sense of possibility. It would be naive to expect sweeping changes in social policy from the new government since the real masters (the corporate sector and other privileged groups) are more or less the same. Nevertheless, there are new opportunities at this time that deserve to be pursued, such as the government's interest in an "Employment Guarantee Act" (EGA), expressed (in a limited form) in the Common Minimum Programme (CMP). Initially perceived as a daunting challenge, the organisation of the convention turned out to be a reasonably smooth affair. Two preparatory meetings were held in Delhi (on April 11 and May 16, 2004) to forge a consensus on the basic parameters of the convention. Two committees (a "programme committee" and a "logistics committee") were formed at the first meeting, which went about their tasks from then on. The programme committee invited different persons to coordinate parallel workshops on each of the 12 main themes identified at the preparatory meetings. In Bhopal, a local organising committee (initially convened by the Bharat Gyan Vigyan Samiti) took charge of the logistics. After the nuts and bolts were in place, things unfolded in a fairly orderly fashion. And in spite of the odd skirmish, inevitable in this kind of work, the whole operation was remarkably free of acrimony. This I attribute largely to the shared commitment that united all the participants, in spite of their differences. A.M. FARUQUI * Artists performing the Hindi play 'Khazan', based on the theme of right to information, during the convention. * Having said this, there was much scope for better preparation. The convention was held at relatively short notice (the date was fixed on April 11, just three months in advance of the event), and time was short on all fronts. Further, despite the pressure of time, many of the participating organisations did not swing into action until late May or even early June. In activist circles, there is a funny habit of doing everything in crisis mode at the last minute. Invitations for a demonstration or meeting are typically circulated a few days before the event, if not the day after. Prior information is scarce and advance preparations are kept to the minimum. To some extent, the convention on the right to food and work fell into this trap, despite individual efforts to get things moving early on. For instance, while early announcements were circulated by e-mail, the written invitation in Hindi was despatched as late as the third week of May. One unfortunate consequence of this delay is that many grassroots organisations outside the e-mail circuit were informed at the last minute, if at all. As a result, these organisations were somewhat under-represented at the convention. The Bhopal convention was held in Gandhi Bhavan, a fine venue with all the basic facilities: a large hall with a good sound system, plenty of meeting rooms, breezy rooftops, open spaces with natural shade, a typing centre, and more. The managers were good enough to make the premises available for a song. About 500 participants turned up from far and wide, and most of them stayed at Gandhi Bhavan itself. Staying together for three days (stacked like sardines at night, all over the halls and rooftops) was a great experience. The only drawback was an acute shortage of bathrooms, forcing some participants to wake up in the middle of the night for a quick bath, or to settle for a dip in Bhopal's magnificent lake, just down the road. Fortunately we enjoyed blissfully cool weather (if such a thing is possible in the middle of June) throughout the convention. RIGHTLY or wrongly, the convention started on a relatively high-profile note, with an opening plenary starring Nusrat Bano Ruhi (local organising committee), Kavita Srivastava (PUCL), Colin Gonsalvez (HRLN), Paul Divakar (NCDHR), Brinda Karat (AIDWA), M.P. Parameswaran (BGVS), Aruna Roy (MKSS) and Kuar Bhai of Jagrit Adivasi Dalit Sangathan. The speakers' brief was mainly to introduce the thematic workshops. For instance, Colin Gonsalvez spoke on the legal aspects of the right to food, Paul Divakar on Dalit perspectives as well as land rights, and Aruna Roy on the connections between the right to food, the right to work and the right to information. It is impossible to summarise the speeches in a few lines, especially Brinda Karat's masala-packed appeal to link the campaign with the larger struggle against sensex-driven economic policies. Beyond the details, what I retain from them is a strong sense of the interlinked nature of different aspects of the right to food, and of the willingness of activists from diverse backgrounds to join forces on this issue, in spite of their differences on specific points. Dalit activists and organisations were quite well represented and their active participation greatly enriched the whole event. Indeed, Dalit perspectives often differ from other activist perspectives on crucial issues, and I believe that there is a need for much greater sensitivity to Dalit voices in India's social movements. In this case, Dalit activists helped to put land rights issues on the agenda of the right to food campaign. Also, there was an interesting note of dissent from NACDOR on the question of "universalisation" of food entitlements (initially with reference to the public distribution system). The concern, as I understand it, is that universalisation is sometimes a threat to the special entitlements of Dalits and other marginalised groups. Personally, I believe that this concern does not undermine the case for universalisation, since universalisation does not mean uniformity (that is, universal coverage can be combined with special facilities for disadvantaged groups). However, this note of dissent was quite helpful in drawing attention to the need for a deeper and more critical understanding of the case for universalisation of basic entitlements. The programme of the convention was built around 12 thematic workshops, held in three sessions of four parallel workshops (with cultural and other activities in between). The themes were: (1) the right to work and livelihood; (2) the public distribution system; (3) agriculture and trade; (4) land rights and food sovereignty; (5) children's right to food; (6) Dalit perspectives; (7) perspectives of indigenous communities; (8) drought and survival; (9) women's perspectives; (10) legal action for the right to food and work; (11) marginalised people and state responsibility; and (12) right to food and right to information. Since I attended only three workshops (one in each session), and since the proceedings of other workshops are not available at the time of writing, it is not possible to present a full-fledged account of the discussions in this article. However, a brief account of the three workshops I did attend may help to convey the flavour of these discussions. AS a starter, I attended the workshop on "the right to work and livelihood", coordinated by Shiraz of Kashtkari Sangathan. The bulk of the discussions actually focussed on the prospects for a national EGA. Clearly, employment guarantee is only one aspect of the right to work, and the right to livelihood can be seen as an even larger notion. Aside from employment guarantee, typically offered in the form of wage labour, the right to work also encompasses other issues such as minimum wages, the need for employment-oriented economic policies and the rights of self-employed workers. The right to livelihood, for its part, is concerned not just with labour rights but also with the dignified survival of those who are unable to work, such as elderly widows and the chronically ill. There was broad agreement at the workshop that bringing about an EGA was a burning issue at this time, but also that a sound campaign for the right to work and livelihood needs to go beyond this particular demand. Further, an EGA itself should encompass, as far as possible, some of the larger livelihood issues; for instance, the rights of unorganised workers and migrants labourers. As far as the EGA issue itself was concerned, the discussions began with presentations of Maharashtra's experience in this respect. Maharashtra passed an Employment Guarantee Act in 1977, which laid the basis of its well-known "employment guarantee scheme" (EGS). During the 1970s and 1980s, the scheme did relatively well, with about half a million persons (mainly women) employed on an average day, and much larger numbers during periods of drought. In the 1990s, however, employment generation under the EGS declined sharply and the principle of guaranteed employment seems to have been quietly buried. Meanwhile, enormous amounts of money (more than Rs.9,000 crores at the time of writing) have accumulated in Maharashtra's "employment guarantee fund", which is meant to be earmarked for EGS. The unused funds are effectively diverted for other purposes, ostensibly as a "loan" but with no assurance that they will ever be returned and utilised for the purpose of employment generation. This gradual undermining of the Act fits in a general pattern of dismantling of many social services in recent years. On a more positive note, the CMP of the new government includes a commitment to "immediately enact a National Employment Guarantee Act". The proposed guarantee is limited to 100 days of employment, for one person per household, and in this respect it falls far short of the right to work in the full sense of the term. Nevertheless, there was a strong sense that a concerted effort should be made to hold the government accountable to this promise. Following on this, the participants shared ideas of possible ways to step up the campaign for an EGA. THE second workshop on my list focussed on "children's right to food". Few participants were expected, as children's issues often take the back seat in public debates (with the consequences that we know). However, the workshop turned out to be jam-packed, to the extent that focussed discussion became quite difficult as most of the 100-odd participants had one point or another to make. The workshop took off from M.P. Parameswaran's crystal-clear assertion (in the opening plenary of the convention) that "every child has a right to a full life", and his observation that "this right cannot be enforced by children themselves". Following on this, Shantha Sinha made a very enlightening presentation on children's right to food, with special reference to children under six - the most important and most neglected age group. Drawing on many years of experience on the ground, she described how prevailing social policies constantly overlook and undermine children's health and nutrition rights. She argued that the best way to protect these rights was to ensure that every child under six attended an active anganwadi. Shantha Sinha also explained how taking children's rights seriously paved the way for far-reaching political change, as those working for children's rights were inevitably led to challenge the system in all sorts of ways. This opening presentation led to a flood of interventions as the participants shared their own experiences of working for children's right to food in different parts of the country. There was also much discussion of recent Supreme Court orders, calling *inter alia* for the provision of cooked mid-day meals in primary schools, and also for the universalisation of Integrated Child Development Services (that is, extending it to all children under six and other eligible groups). While some progress has been made with mid-day meals, with prospects of further expansion and improvement of mid-day meal programmes in the near future, the Supreme Court order on the ICDS has been blissfully ignored by the government. The main reason for this contrast seems to be that court orders on mid-day meals were supplemented with active public pressure, while the ICDS remained out of focus. There was wide agreement on the need for a joint campaign on the universalisation of the ICDS. The discussions also helped to identify a wide range of other issues on which effective advocacy is possible. A.M. FARUQUI * Kavita Srivastava, Aruna Roy, M.P. Parameswaran, Nusrat Bano Ruhi, Brinda Karat and Paul Divaker at a session. * The third workshop I attended was concerned with "marginalised people and state responsibility". This one unfolded in a different mode: it consisted mainly of testimonies of affected persons, including destitute widows, street children, members of so-called "primitive tribes", persons with disabilities and victims of the Bhopal gas tragedy. It was quite moving to feel the spirit of solidarity that ran through the audience, in spite of the widely divergent social backgrounds of the participants. The testimonies were a telling reminder of the fact that the right to food is nowhere near being realised in India, in spite of a fair amount of agitation on this issue in recent years. Even the most basic directions of the Supreme Court are routinely violated. Destitute widows, for instance, told us how they are made to run from pillar to post when they apply for pensions or Antyodaya cards, in spite of being entitled to public support as a matter of right. There were also some signs of hope, such as the mobilisation of Pahari Korwas (a so-called "primitive tribe") in Surguja district in Chhattisgarh district on food security issues, leading not only to the distribution of Antyodaya cards to all members of this community but also to a new sense of confidence. Brief reports from the workshops were presented at plenary sessions on June 12. Some workshops were mainly of an "educational" nature, but many ended with some sort of agenda for action, or at least with a list of issues that could be taken up by the participating organisations. For instance, the workshop on "agriculture and trade" articulated specific positions on key issues such as World Trade Organisation (WTO) regulations and genetically modified crops. Similarly, the workshop on "drought and survival" recommended that the so-called Famine Codes (also known as Relief Codes in some States) should be radically revised and made legally binding. Detailed suggestions for revision were made and, if all goes well, this agenda will be taken forward by the participants in the near future. THE main recommendations were consolidated at the concluding plenary on June 13, with a special focus on joint activities involving broad coalitions of the participating organisations. For instance, there was unanimous agreement on the need to launch a broad-based campaign for a national EGA. As a first step, a decision was taken to organise a "day of action for the right to work" on October 16, (World Food Day). In advance of this event, a draft EGA will be prepared and discussions will be held with representatives of the new government as well as with the left parties. Similarly, the participating organisations agreed to join forces for a week to assert children's right to food, with a special emphasis on the universalisation of ICDS. This week of action is due to start on November 14 (Children's Day in India), and to culminate on November 20 (Universal Children's Day). A proposal was also made that *kala jatha*s on the right to work and children's right to food should be held across the country during the period separating these two activities - from October 16 to November 20. Land rights is another issue on which a strong need was felt for coordinated action. Various proposals were made at the workshop on "land rights and food sovereignty" and concrete decisions on this are likely to be taken quite soon at follow-up gatherings. The concluding plenary also took up some crucial organisational matters, particularly the decision-making structures of the campaign in the months ahead. These matters had been discussed in some detail at two preparatory meetings held on June 11 and 12, respectively. Unfortunately, wider discussion was relegated to the end of the closing plenary and by then little time was left for this important topic. Briefly, the plenary endorsed a proposal to constitute a provisional "steering group" for a period of one year or so (until the next convention). The basic role of this steering group is not to "lead" the campaign, or even to get directly involved in organising activities, but rather to facilitate the process of mutual support among the participating organisations. Specifically, the proposed responsibilities of the group are: (1) to facilitate the next convention; (2) to ensure the smooth flow of information within the network; (3) to initiate a process of wider discussion of the organisational aspects of the campaign, and prepare a proposal on this for the next convention; and possibly (4) advocacy with the Central government. For the rest, the campaign is expected to continue in the informal, decentralised mode in which it has operated so far - at least for now. No doubt, the organisational aspects of the campaign would have benefited from further discussion. A sound organisational base is essential for the sustainability and long-term effectiveness of the whole effort. The achievements of a convention of this kind are best assessed in the light of the various roles it is expected to play. At least four roles can be envisaged. First, a convention is an opportunity for the participants to educate themselves, as they share their insights and experiences. Second, a convention can act as a springboard for further action, particularly collaborative action involving a wide range of like-minded organisations that are otherwise very loosely connected if at all. Third, this convention was an opportunity to review and consolidate the organisational basis of the right to food campaign. Last but not least, a convention has an important social dimension: it fosters personal interaction between people who share a strong commitment to particular issues, in this case the right to food and work. In my view, the convention was most successful in its educational and social roles. The depth of the discussions was impressive, at least in the sessions I attended. And the level of motivation of most participants was very high. Further, the convention created (or strengthened) many personal bonds. Aside from their intrinsic value, these personal bonds are perhaps the greatest strength of the campaign. The convention was also reasonably effective as a springboard for further action. I was hoping for more in this respect, and left Bhopal with a sharp awareness of our timidity in seizing the opportunities in front of us. Nevertheless, some solid groundwork was done, and there are good prospects of lively activity in the months ahead. Much depends on the initiative and imagination of the participating individuals and organisations. Finally, the convention did not go very far in terms of clarifying the organisational aspects of the campaign for the right to food and work. The campaign's informal and decentralised mode of functioning is both a strength and a weakness. On the positive side, it fosters initiative and enables diverse individuals and organisations to work together on the basis of voluntary association and shared concerns, with few institutional shackles. On the other side, the present approach is not always conducive to coordinated action. Further, the process of voluntary association requires some basic safeguards against arbitrariness and abuses of power, if it is to remain participatory and democratic. Let me try to explain why I consider this a very important issue. If one looks around at India's "social movements", and specifically at their organisational aspects, three problems stand out. One is that there is a lot of quarrelling and factionalism within these movements, with devastating effects on their ability to have a real impact. The second is that they are largely personality-based. Indeed, leadership (formal or informal) is typically the means through which infighting is resolved or suppressed. The third issue is that the "leaders" almost invariably come from a privileged social background. However sensitive they may be to the viewpoint of the underprivileged, they cannot but carry a certain baggage associated with their own position. The bottom line is that, with few exceptions, social movements in India (or for that matter elsewhere) are far from democratic. This lack of internal democracy jars with the values we claim to stand for, and creates a deep inconsistency between means and ends. The central organisational challenge for the right to food campaign is to develop ways of working together that are both effective and consistent with our basic values - including democracy, equality and transparency. I would like to think that this is possible, but it requires an explicit and collective engagement with this challenge. Hopefully, the next convention will be an opportunity to take up this unfinished agenda. ------------------------------ 1. These include the Bharat Gyan Vigyan Samiti (BGVS), the Jan Swasthya Abhiyan (JSA), the National Alliance of People's Movements (NAPM), the National Federation of Indian Women (NFIW), the Human Rights Law Network (HRLN), the National Conference of Dalit Organisations (NACDOR), the All India Democratic Women's Association (AIDWA), the National Campaign Committee for Rural Workers (NCCRW), the People's Union for Civil Liberties (PUCL), the National Campaign on Dalit Human Rights (NCDHR) and the National Campaign for the People's Right to Information (NCPRI). About 120 organisations participated in the convention. * * Printer friendly page Send this article to Friends by E-Mail ------------------------------ Subscribe | Contact Us| Archives | Contents (Letters to the Editor should carry the full postal address) ------------------------------ [ Home | The Hindu | Business Line | Sportstar ------------------------------ Copyright © 2004, Frontline. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of Frontline ------------------------------ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 08:19:15 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 08:19:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 5 Message-ID: Online edition of India's National Newspaper Monday, Feb 10, 2003 Group Publications Business Line The Sportstar Frontline The Hindu About Us Contact Us *Opinion* News: Front Page | National | Southern States | Other States| International | Opinion| Business | Sport| Miscellaneous | Advts: Classifieds | Employment | Obituary| Opinion - Leader Page Articles [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] * The right to adequate food * By Kaushik Ranjan Bandyopadhyay * What is really needed is the participation of civil society in planning, executing, monitoring and evaluating public policies relevant to the right to adequate food. * THE RIGHT to food is not just a basic human right but also a basic human need. It essentially requires the state to ensure at least that the people do not starve. States have to take all necessary steps towards fulfilling the right to adequate food. Under the Indian Constitution, there is no fundamental right to food but the fulcrum of justiciability of the right to food comes from a much broader "right to life and liberty" as enshrined in Article 21. In fact, the basis of the much talked about petition filed by the People's Union for Civil Liberties (PUCL) against the Union of India is Article 21. The petition drew attention to the fact that over 50 million tonnes of foodgrains were lying idle in FCI godowns against the backdrop of widespread hunger in the country, especially in the drought-affected areas of Rajasthan and Orissa. This led to an interim Supreme Court order directing the States to implement fully eight different centrally-sponsored schemes on food security and to introduce cooked midday meals in all Government and Government-assisted schools. India does not seem to have any problem in terms of physical availability as the foodgrains production is more than adequate as evident from the overflowing godowns. Accessibility is the problem. This has two elements: physical accessibility and economic accessibility. There is a network of half-a-million fair price shops to make foodgrains physically available to Indian households. However, the public distribution system is grossly flawed. Field investigations by various NGOs in Jharkhand, Chhattisgarh, Madhya Pradesh, Orissa, Maharashtra and Rajasthan revealed that large numbers of cardholders are ignorant of their entitlements. The principal constraint in realising the right to adequate food is economic accessibility or affordability. This brings to the fore two main issues: (1) the price of the foodgrains and (2) the economic means to exercise `command' over the food. The food subsidy bill of the Centre and States together exceeds Rs. 30,000 crores a year. But the subsidy is inherently biased towards the producers and does not cater to the needy consumers in the form of reduced prices on foodgrains. Compounding this, the PDS dealers charge inflated prices even for the BPL and the Antodaya Anna Yojana (AAY) cardholders. On the question of economic means, the realisation of the right to food involves the right to work. The relief or ad hoc employment provided to farmers during the lean season or to landless labourers and tribals for a short duration does not bring enough money — to feed themselves or their families adequately. To ensure the right to adequate food there has to be an Employment Guarantee Scheme (EGS) such as in Maharashtra and it has to be legally binding. Another important issue is the interface between the right to food and the right to health on the notion of `adequacy'. According to Asjborn Eide, U.N. Special Rapporteur on Right to Food, once foodstuffs are physically available, they have to satisfy the dietary needs (energy and nutrients) to qualify as adequate. The latest NSS Report shows that the calorie intake of the poorest 30 per cent of the population falls short of the dietary intake recommended by the Indian Council of Medical Research (ICMR). The Second National Family Health Survey Report (1998-99) shows that 47 per cent of Indian children are under nourished, and that 36 per cent and 52 per cent of Indian women suffer from chronic energy deficiency and anaemia respectively. The alarming nutritional status of women and children in India is primarily attributed to chronic hunger. The nutritional status of women also has a direct bearing on the weight of children. About 34 per cent of all newborn infants have low birth weight. It has serious consequences in terms of high infant mortality and morbidity and vulnerability to cardiovascular disorders in adulthood. To do away with this chronic under-nourishment, adequate food with all dietary elements is not enough. Adequate food must be accompanied by a provision for adequate health care. An assessment of the initiatives of the Centre and the State Governments to satisfy the right to adequate food after the Supreme Court's interim order makes it clear that the state has failed in various ways to protect, facilitate and provide adequate food. The food security schemes specified in the interim order are not functioning in many States. The States blame it on lack of resources, which is only partly true. If the States claim their inability to fulfil their obligations for reasons beyond their control, they have to show that they have done everything in their power to ensure that people have access to adequate food. The starvation deaths in Orissa's Kashipur village bear testimony to a clear lack of political will and seriousness on the part of the States along with corrupt local governments and the bureaucracy. A survey undertaken in Kashipur after the reports of starvation deaths showed that poor tribal families had been declared above the poverty line (APL) while the network of local government and traders siphoned off the grains meant for BPL (below poverty line) families under the targeted public distribution system (TDPS). In his report to the Supreme Court submitted on October 29, 2002, N. C. Saxena, Commissioner of the Supreme Court, stated that Bihar, Jharkhand, Uttar Pradesh, Andhra Pradesh, Assam, West Bengal, Chhattisgarh and Gujarat had not responded to the queries regarding PDS foodgrains not reaching the poor and had not provided any feedback on the status of compliance with the order on introduction of midday meals or on the status of the process of identification of the poor for BPL ration cards. The report reaffirms the States' lacklustre approach in eliminating with hunger and starvation and ensuring the right to adequate food. An important instrument in asserting the right to adequate food is legal action. Of late, the Supreme Court has started entertaining Public Interest Litigation highlighting questions of public importance. The PIL filed by the PUCL against the Union of India (SCC 196 of 2001) is one such celebrated petition on the violation of the right to food. However, such legal action does not touch upon all aspects of the right to food. The role of civil society is of paramount importance. Article 10 (Part IV) of the International Code of Conduct on the right to adequate food mentions that the active participation of all civil society actors — individuals, families, local communities or non-governmental organisations — is essential. Recently, social mobilisation has begun in the form of public hearings. Public pressure through public hearing is effective in asserting the right to food. However, what is really needed is the participation of civil society in planning, executing, monitoring and evaluating public policies relevant to the right to adequate food. Only a participatory approach will be able to give a more humane shape and the much needed rights perspective to the Government's policies in ensuring food and nutrition security. Moreover, there should be due recognition of the fact that all pivotal rights such as the right to food, right to health, right to education or any economic and social rights, for that matter, are interdependent. For example, providing sufficient food to do away with under-nutrition will not really eliminate the chronic health disorders that have already set in. Providing adequate health care is necessary. Similarly, to realise the right to food people should have access to education and information. Last but not the least, the process of realisation of the right to adequate food should not violate any other socio-economic or civil and political rights. *(The writer is a researcher at the Centre for Development and Human Rights, New Delhi.)* * * Printer friendly page Send this article to Friends by E-Mail Opinion News: Front Page | National | Southern States | Other States| International | Opinion| Business | Sport| Miscellaneous | Advts: Classifieds | Employment | Obituary| Stories in this Section - Inadequate deliberation - The Columbia mystery - India, the U.S. and Iraq - The right to adequate food - New colonial order? - Dhaka's hostility - Indo-French ties - Interlinking rivers - Spineless service - The killing of Gandhi Archives Yesterday's Issue Datewise Features: Life Magazine Literary Review Metro Plus Open Page Education Book Review Business SciTech Entertainment Young World Quest Folio ------------------------------ The Hindu Group: Home | About Us| Copyright | Archives| Contacts | Subscription Group Sites: The Hindu | Business Line| The Sportstar | Frontline| Home | Copyright © 2003, The Hindu. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of The Hindu ------------------------------ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 08:19:35 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 08:19:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 5 Message-ID: ------------------------------ [image: Frontline] *Volume 25 - Issue 09 :: Apr. 26-May. 09, 2008* INDIA'S NATIONAL MAGAZINE from the publishers of THE HINDU *•* Contents ------------------------------ [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] *PUBLIC HEALTH* * The food question * T.K. RAJALAKSHMI * Moves to float a corporate alliance to promote “complementary” baby food evoke protests. * * IN SIMILIPAL, ORISSA. Would the promotion of complementary baby foods help impoverished mothers and malnourished children? * THE efforts of a Geneva-based organisation called Global Alliance for Improved Nutrition (GAIN) to set up an infant and young child nutrition (IYCN) alliance in India have raised the hackles of groups involved in the promotion of breastfeeding and child and infant survival. At a time when the question whether cooked meals or packaged food should be served at ICDS (Integrated Child Development Services) centres is still debated, with overwhelming scientific and other evidence supporting the former, the attempts to form the new alliance is being viewed with suspicion. To add to the confusion, the Ministry of Women and Child Development has not clarified its position on what children should be fed at ICDS centres. Besides, the IYCN India Alliance’s attempts to mobilise public-private partnerships to promote its brand of feeding practices for infant and young children have not gone down well with public health experts and activists. In its annual report for the year 2005-06, GAIN stated that along with global food giants Groupe Danone, Unilever and Cargill, it was working to fight “hidden hunger” and that unlike traditional aid campaigns, it looked to build new markets for nutritious foods. Also, it said it aimed to improve the nutrition level of populations through technical and financial support. The expected role of the alliance includes, among other things, building high-level opinion in favour of creating an IYCF (infant and young child feeding)-friendly policy, regime and a regulatory environment, removing the roadblocks in improving breastfeeding practices and increasing the availability of affordable complementary foods/complementary food supplements in accordance with the regulations in the country. A kind of public-private partnership, the GAIN’s IYCN programme professedly aims to save lives and improve the health and cognitive functions of infants and young children. One of the principal arguments offered in its support is that while there has been some progress in breastfeeding practices, little has been done to promote complementary feeding and efforts are, therefore, needed to promote the IYCF package as a whole with complementary food, both home-processed and industrially processed. This coincides with the World Bank’s understanding on promoting private-public partnership in bringing about what is called behavioural change through high-quality communications campaigns involving the “savvy private sector media groups in India”. The main, and perhaps the most fundamental, problem with this alliance is that its partners comprise multinational baby food manufacturers and packers. Names like Groupe Danone, described on the GAIN website as one of the leaders in the global food industry, Unilever, one of the world’s largest producers of food and care products, and Tetrapak, a global leader in packaging and processing, are partners of GAIN, apart from some United Nations agencies and the World Bank Institute. In fact, the CEO of Groupe Danone is on the GAIN’s board. Interestingly, Micronutrient Initiative, another international organisation that is one of GAIN’s partners, has already set up base in India. It has offices in Johannesburg and elsewhere in Africa, too. Is the IYCN programme really aimed at improving breastfeeding practices? Or does it only seek to promote packaged baby food in the name of “complementary feeding”? According to a confidential e-mail correspondence between the GAIN India representative R. Sankar and the Department for International Development (DFID), a British government funding agency, the former wrote that “there has been considerable progress in the implementation of interventions to improve breastfeeding practices. This has resulted in a steady improvement in breastfeeding practices, although a lot remains to be done. On the other hand, very little progress has been made in the area of promoting timely introduction of complementary feeding. Therefore, efforts need to be made towards promoting the IYCF package as a whole with adequate emphasis on appropriate complementary food both home processed and industrially processed.”* * *Frontline* is in possession of this correspondence. Sankar, who is an endocrinologist by training, does not deny that GAIN is into private-public partnerships in a big way. He told *Frontline* that all that the organisation was trying to do was to bring “together all stakeholders on infant and child feeding” and to promote market-driven mechanisms to combat malnutrition. According to him, a six-month-old child needs certain essential nutrients that cannot be made available at home. “It is so easy to say that food can be processed at home. If these women [poor women consumers] can buy a shampoo instead of shikakai, they can buy a pouch of milk powder as well,” he said. He added that the whole idea was to increase access to such products and that GAIN’s role was that of a facilitator. He did not deny that Groupe Danone’s CEO was on the GAIN board and also said that the “problem” started after Danone acquired a baby food manufacturing company called Numico. “Manufacturing baby food is not illegal but marketing it at the cost of breast feeding is,” he said. But, he said, GAIN was looking at ways to deal with the problem. Sankar said that those who were objecting to GAIN’s activities were “misinformed.” “The problem is, we stand on different poles of the ideological divide,” he said. The Breast Feeding Promotion Network in India has been particularly agitated over GAIN’s activities, especially as it has sought to involve senior government functionaries. At the very first meeting of the alliance, on April 15, GAIN had on its list of invitees senior government officials representing the Ministries of Health, Women and Child Development and Food Processing, and some State governments. >From the academic world, there were the names of several luminaries, including the Director of the National Institute of Nutrition, the president of the Public Health Foundation of India, a representative from the Indian Council of Medical Research and six nutrition experts, among the invitees. The meeting was disrupted by a protest by public health activists, right-to-food campaigners, paediatricians and representatives of some 15 women’s organisations at the venue. Several government functionaries and some United Nations, agencies, which were supposed to attend the meeting, stayed away after being informed of GAIN’s association with food manufacturers. The World Health Organisation representative, who was supposed to chair the meeting, stayed away, too. (“Naturally, he did not want to get involved in the controversy,” said Sankar.) So did representatives of the Ministries of Health and Food Processing. The protesting groups issued a joint statement expressing concern that there was increasing interference from lobbies of manufacturers of food supplements for babies and children to influence policies on infant and young child feeding and nutrition. They said they were disturbed about the formation of the India Alliance by GAIN, whose purpose seemed to be to create markets for its collaborators. On April 4, the Breastfeeding Promotion Network of India’s (BPNI) national coordinator, Arun Gupta, wrote to the Secretary of the Ministry of Women and Child Development, reminding him that the promotion of baby foods interfered with optimal breastfeeding practices. That was one reason, he explained in his note, why the Indian government had formulated the Infant Milk Substitutes, Feeding Bottles and Infant Foods (Regulation of Production, Supply and Distribution) Act, 1992, as amended in 2003, after having accepted the International Code for Marketing of Breast-Milk Substitutes that was adopted by the World Health Assembly in May 1981. He reminded the Secretary of what the then Human Resource Development Minister, Arjun Singh, said while presenting the Bill in Parliament in 1992: “The promotion of infant milk substitutes and related products by manufacturers and distributors has been more extensive and pervasive than the dissemination of information concerning the advantages of mother’s milk and breastfeeding.” Gupta got no response. According to the National Family Health Survey (NFHS) III, child malnutrition in India came down by only 1 per cent (from 47 to 46 per cent) since NFHS II was conducted. And BPNI, quoting international studies, says that child malnutrition is essentially a problem among children under 24 months; that it is mostly undernutrition of both mothers and babies and young children that results in infant deaths; that most infant deaths occur in the very first year owing to infections caught soon after birth, diarrhoea and pneumonia; that breastfeeding, if started within an hour of birth, can avert 22 per cent of newborn deaths; and that universal administering of oral rehydration solution can avert 15 per cent of all under-five deaths. The organisation argues that even if complementary feeding is required after six months, it should be basic, home-cooked food that is eaten by the rest of the family. There is little evidence to support that packaged foods meet such requirements. If anything, the cost of such foods would only further pauperise the poor, BPNI says. On May 2, 2007, a delegation comprising public health activists and paediatricians met the Prime Minister to demand a budget to promote breastfeeding practices and the formation of a high-level authority to coordinate action on infant nutrition and survival. The group said that equal priority to breastfeeding issues needed to be given at the time of allocation of resources, such as incentives to the Accredited Social Health Activist (Asha), help for maternity protection to ensure that mothers stayed close to their babies, including maternity entitlements and creches. In effect, the group demanded a clear budget line for infant feeding on all child-related programmes. SHANKER CHAKRAVARTY * A protest by public health activists, paediatricians and women’s organisations at the venue of the first meeting of the IYCN launched by GAIN, in New Delhi on April 15. * Now, less than a year down the line, a global alliance with corporate interests in mind has joined the campaign to promote infant survival by pushing complementary foods in an indirect manner. Arun Gupta, who has been at the forefront of a campaign to promote breastfeeding in the country, feels that these moves are intended at circumventing the Infant Milk Substitutes Act. He says that after unsuccessfully trying to introduce packaged food for midday meals in schools and then for the three-to-six age group in the ICDS centres, corporate lobbies, with the government’s support, were trying to hard-sell complementary feeding for the zero-to-two age group. “Who is to decide what will be eaten by Indian children? Is it the health and nutrition experts from India or corporate-driven bodies from abroad?” he asks. According to him, the GAIN-initiated alliance can have far-reaching consequences. He said that it was impossible to believe that the alliance would promote optimal feeding practices, especially when there was a conflict of interest involved with baby food manufacturers like Wockhardt listed as its potential partners. Danone, he said, had already approached paediatricians with its Probiotics yoghurt brand Danone Yakult. Sankar did not deny Arun Gupta’s allegation that Wockhardt, which acquired the “Farex infant formula” recently, had gifted slip pads to paediatricians with Farex, the name of a baby food product, printed on them. “We have written to them asking for an explanation,” he said. Gupta estimates that nearly 75 per cent of Indian women do not breastfeed their children within an hour of giving birth. Nearly 72 per cent did not exclusively breastfeed their children for six months though the practice is recommended by the World Health Organisation, the United Nations Children’s Fund and the Government of India. It is not insignificant that at least 16 organisations, including BPNI, the Jan Swasthya Abhiyaan, the All India Drug Action Network, the Right-to-Food Campaign, the Trained Nurses Association of India and the Centre for Women’s Development Studies, have repeatedly tried to secure government recognition for zero-to-six-month infants as entities in government programmes of food security. The promotion of breastfeeding is not yet seen as an area that needs core intervention by the government to prevent infant and child deaths. It is evident that any intervention to check infant mortality and maternal mortality rates will be incomplete if the promotion of breastfeeding and the conditions that precede it, such as maternal nutrition, is not part of the larger vision. And certainly, public-private partnerships in areas where there is a clear conflict of interest should not be encouraged.• * * ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Printer friendly page Send this article to Friends by E-Mail ------------------------------ Subscribe | Contact Us | Archives| Contents (Letters to the Editor should carry the full postal address) ------------------------------ Home | The Hindu | Business Line | Sportstar | Publications | eBooks| Images ------------------------------ Copyright © 2008, Frontline. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of Frontline ------------------------------ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 08:19:53 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 08:19:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 5 Message-ID: Online edition of India's National Newspaper Sunday, Mar 23, 2003 Group Publications Business Line The Sportstar Frontline The Hindu About Us Contact Us *Magazine * Published on Sundays Features: Magazine | Literary Review | Life| Metro Plus | Open Page| Education | Book Review| Business | SciTech| Entertainment | Young World | Quest| Folio | Magazine [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] * Food for the hungry * Using a public hearing to secure the right to information and to ensure that the drought-stricken villagers get their due from the public distribution system, activists are trying to redress the grievances of the marginalised, writes AJIT BHATTACHARJEA, in the first of a fortnightly column. * Villagers, unaware of the programmes meant to help them, are struggling to survive the drought. * *Kelwada, Rajasthan: * * *AT another time, the scene may have shown Rajasthan at its traditional best. At Kelwada, an outpost of the fabled Rajasthan fortress of Kumbalgarh, some 2,000 people were crowded under a *pandal*, traditionally dressed in a kaleidoscope of colours. But this was no festival. They had assembled for a unique *jan sunwai *(public hearing) on their right to food. Much of the region was reeling under the worst drought in living memory. Five monsoons had passed with little rain. Reservoirs had been reduced to puddles. Most villagers came from nearby *panchayats*; others from distant parts of the State. One contingent journeyed all the way from Baran to tell grim tales of starvation deaths. All were crucially dependent on the public distribution system (PDS) and network of schemes devised by the Rajasthan Government to alleviate distress. The most vulnerable were listed as below poverty line (BPL) and provided cards to buy 35 kg of food grains a month at a subsidised price of Rs. 4.60 a kg. This provided for about half the cereal needs of a household. Among them, the poorest were Bhil tribals, who could seldom afford to buy their full quota. More than a year ago, the obscene contrast between widespread hunger and mounds of food grains stocked by the Food Corporation of India, some rotting and eaten by rats, had impelled the Supreme Court to pass a series of orders instructing governments to ensure effective implementation of food security programmes. It had commented acidly: "Food grains which are overflowing in the storage receptacles, especially of FCI godowns, and which are in abundance, should not be wasted by dumping into the sea or eaten by rats. Mere schemes without any implementation are of no use. What is important is that food must reach the hungry." The Kelwada *jan sunwai *was held the day after the Lok Sabha passed the Freedom of Information Bill, largely the fruit of the campaign initiated by the Mazdoor Kisan Shakti Sangathan (MKSS) in Rajasthan. Now MKSS was using the same technique of public hearings to draw attention to the even more basic right to food. For 10 days, its workers had conducted a survey of BPL households in nearby *panchayats*. But getting the villagers to speak out in Kelwada was difficult. Few were aware of the schemes intended to help them. They came from remote areas where subservience to local authority and those associated with it was deep-rooted. This included some PDS dealers whose corruption had been exposed by the survey. Several dealers and local officials attended *the jan sunwai*. Before the *sunwai*, unpleasant rumours had been spread about the MKSS. But its workers were strengthened by local awareness of the impact of the *jan sunwai *in Janawad, not too far away. Officials found guilty of corruption had been jailed. They were further strengthened by the Supreme Court orders on right to food, of which they had extracts. * At the Jan sunwai. * The Kelwada *sunwai *began uncertainly and on a tense note. For 10 minutes, nobody responded when villagers were invited to come up to the mike and describe their problems. The dealers looked pleased. Eventually, a Bhil walked up, thin but upright. He showed his BPL card and confirmed that they were forced to pay Rs. five for a kg of food grain instead of the listed rate of Rs. 4.60; that he had signed for the entire quota of 35 kg per month, but had taken less. Then others followed, women among them. All had serious complaints. PDS shops opened at short notice once or twice a month. The cardholders did not always have enough money to buy their quota. Sometimes they were even asked to buy two months' ration at a time. The amount they could not buy was diverted to the open market. PDS dealers reacted angrily, but, when the charges were repeated, argued that the commissions they received were inadequate. They could survive only by making money on the side. Local officials admitted that this was the case. One by one, the complaints pointed to administrative callousness and commercial exploitation of the poor when their need was greatest. Many were unaware of the programmes to which the Supreme Court had drawn attention. The BPL list did not reflect those driven to destitution by the prolonged drought. Drought relief works were inadequate and selectively allocated. Those deserving pensions under existing programmes just to survive — widows, the elderly, the disabled and other vulnerable groups — had increased with the drought but were not getting the money. Those who did often received it after months; sometimes they were delivered too late. But there was evidence that programmes could work if properly supervised. Nobody complained against one particular scheme — MDM for midday meals to school children. Some 70 lakh children were being fed with *ghoogri*, a cooked meal of wheat and jaggery. The only problem voiced was that teachers had to often spend time cooking. After the *sunwai*, senior officials vowed to supervise the distress schemes more closely. In Kelwada itself, pension officials promised to reorganise their computerised schedules so as to pay pensions by the seventh of the month, instead of after a month or two. Another *jan sunwai *may have to be organised in the area to ensure that the commitments are fulfilled. Two months after the Kumbalgarh *jan sunwai*, right to information activists and their friends assembled at Beawar, to celebrate the success of the movement that took off in this small town in southern Rajasthan, not far from Kumbalgarh. Success lay in the passage of Right to Information legislation by several States, including Rajasthan, and then by Parliament, an achievement that few would have thought attainable at the 40-day *dharna *that fuelled the movement in Beawar in 1995. But the activists were not resting on their laurels. Led by Aruna Roy and Nikhil Dey of the MKSS, they had organised another *jan sunwai* to check the extent to which the legislation was being implemented and to map out future activities. Rautram from Panchu *gram panchayat *in Bikaner District testified that it had helped to secure information enabling them to expose corruption in development works. However, others like Suresh Raghuvanshi from the Asind *panchayat samiti *of Bhilwara District complained that officials continued to deny access to information despite the legislation. The Kumbalgarh *jan sunwai*, that had focussed on right to food, could claim considerable success. Moti from Baran, the district that had reported several starvation deaths in August last year, informed the gathering that a youth organisation set up by Sankalp, a non governmental organisation, had been successful in securing information about the quantity of food grains alotted to BPL families in the area. Armed with this information, they met local officials and ensured that it was distributed fairly and promptly. The assembly decided to make right to work the focus of the movement and to organise campaigns to secure the right to information where it was denied. * * Printer friendly page Send this article to Friends by E-Mail Magazine Features: Magazine | Literary Review | Life| Metro Plus | Open Page| Education | Book Review| Business | SciTech| Entertainment | Young World | Quest| Folio | Select Articles - The wrestling-pit of public debate - Should I stop watching cricket? - Food for the hungry - The question of Indianness Archives - Datewise - Issues - Cuisine - Travel - Gardening News News Update Front Page National Regional: • Southern States • Other States International Opinion Business Sport Miscellaneous Index ------------------------------ The Hindu Group: Home | About Us| Copyright | Archives| Contacts | Subscription Group Sites: The Hindu | Business Line| The Sportstar | Frontline| The Hindu eBooks | Home| Comments to : thehindu at vsnl.com Copyright © 2003, The Hindu Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of The Hindu ------------------------------ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 08:20:19 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 08:20:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 5 Message-ID: ------------------------------ [image: Frontline] *Volume 19 - Issue 13, Jun. 22 - Jul. 5, 2002* India's National Magazine from the publishers of THE HINDU Home *•* Contents ------------------------------ EVENTS Profits over people *How the World Food Summit in Rome last fortnight buried food rights, and clearly laid the contours of the future the powerful of the world are designing.* *VANDANA SHIVA* THE "World Food Summit: 5 years later" which concluded in Rome on June 13 was supposed to address the most important human rights violation of our time - the denial of the right to food to millions. Many of the delegates found football more important than hunger. Silvio Berlusconi, the Italian leader, wrapped up the so-called "Summit" two hours ahead of schedule so that everyone could watch the World Cup of football. Nero fiddled while Rome burnt. Leaders watch football while their people starve. In any case, while serious commitments were being made, no serious analysis was attempted to address the growing crisis of hunger and malnutrition. PIER PAOLO CITO/AP *The opening session of the World Food Summit in Rome.* While the Summit was a total failure in addressing the hunger issue, it did become a launching pad for the biotechnology industry. The hunger for food was neglected. The hunger for profit was fully attended to. It was used to put the stamp of approval on genetically engineered seeds and crops which have been at the centre of controversy over the past decade. As is becoming the trend, the World Food Summit was not negotiated. A text was ready before the leaders arrived. The leaders came only came from the countries of the South. Rich country leaders were absent. The United States government was conspicuous by its influence. U.S. Agriculture Secretary Ann M. Veneman, who used to be with Calgene, now a company under Monsanto, held a press conference to announce how biotechnology would save people and the rainforests. (A U.S. journalist who interviewed this writer commented that the current U.S. government is in fact a "Monsanto administration". Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld used to be president of Searle, which merged with Monsanto. And Attorney-General John Ashcroft had received campaign funds from Monsanto.) While no financial commitment was made on the hunger front, the head of United States Agency for International Development (USAID) announced biotechnology aid of $100 million to Third World countries over the next ten years for transfer of biotechnology. With and tied to trade and commercial interests, it is possible that poor countries which have been resisting genetic engineering will now open their doors to it. The Summit seemed to have moved from addressing the problem of hunger of the poor to hunger for profits and control of corporations. It conveyed the impression of being more a sale-show for the biotechnology industry than a serious gathering of leaders seeking to find collective ways and make collective commitments to address the biggest human rights disaster of our times - more than a billion people going hungry in a world with abundant food and wealth. The Summit was to have been organised before the Doha Ministerial Meeting of the World Trade Organisation (WTO). However, because of protests in Genoa at the time of the G-7 summit when the police killed a youth, the Italian government had made Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO) postpone the Summit since it was worried about protests. A peaceful protest by more than 20,000 people did take place on June 8, an indication that for citizens food and agriculture is a major concern. In countries of the Third World it is a concern because most people of the South are peasants and farmers, because most people who are growing hungry are in rural areas and could be producing enough food for their needs had they not been displaced and had not their resources and assets been alienated, and had not their food sovereignty been destroyed by non-sustainable capital-intensive technologies and unfair terms of trade between rural and urban areas, between agriculture and industry, and between North and South. Reform of the global agriculture system was the most important issue for debate and negotiation at the WTO Ministerial Meeting in Doha. The most significant failing of Rome was that it made no effort to contribute to reform of the WTO Agreement on Agriculture with people's food rights as the defining imperative for reform. Starvation is the inevitable result of policies of globalisation which are transforming food from a basic need, to which everyone has a right, to a globally-traded commodity. Most hungry people are rural producers who are hungry either because their resources have been ecologically degraded or alienated, or because they are too deeply in debt to buy costly inputs for Green Revolution-style industrial agriculture. They cannot consume the food they grow. This is the story of Kalahandi and Kashipur in Orissa. People starve because of erosion of entitlements, not lack of food. And entitlements are being eroded by globalisation in four ways. First, capital-intensive systems of agriculture rob peasants of incomes and push them into debt and penury. The epidemic of farmers' suicides is a reflection of this growing crisis of increasing costs of production. Secondly, as markets get integrated globally and import restrictions (quantitative restrictions or QRs) are removed, the artificial prices set by the monopoly control of agribusiness and the $400 billion-worth subsidies in rich countries depress domestic prices, robbing farmers of markets and incomes. The recently announced U.S. Farm Bill increases U.S. subsidies to $18 billion over the next few years. This will depress further the prices farmers receive worldwide, making agriculture non-viable for small and marginal producers. It also throws to the world the oft-quoted justification for globalisation and WTO rules - that it would create a level playing field and force rich countries to reduce subsidies. The WTO is clearly helpless in disciplining rich countries like the U.S. Its discipline seems to be imposed only on countries like India which has been forced to change its patent laws under the Trade Related Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPS) regime and to remove QRs for agricultural imports. The third level at which food entitlements of the poor are eroded is by the shift from "food first to export first" policies. India's new agriculture policy as well as the last two Union Budgets made this shift evident. Export-oriented agriculture policies divert scarce land and water from meeting local food needs to providing for export markets thus creating hunger and conditions for famine for the most vulnerable and marginal communities. This is what happened during colonialism and is happening under the recolonisation of globalisation. The inverse relation between increasing exports and declining food consumption locally and nationally has been exhibited under export-led strategies of World Bank Structural Adjustment Programmes (SAPs). In Nigeria, Ethiopia, Sudan, Kenya, Tanzania and Zaire, which account for 60 per cent of the population of sub-Saharan Africa, there has been a 33 per cent decline in cereal output per head and 20 per cent decline in overall food output per head in less than a decade. All the countries saw rising agricultural exports per head along with declining food output or food consumption per head. ALBERTO PIZZOLI/AFP *At the venue of the NGO Forum session held parallel to the Food Summit.* Finally, hunger is a result of policies linked to structural adjustment and globalisation which promote sudden withdrawal of the state and reckless dependence on markets. The dismantling of the public distribution system (PDS) has destroyed India's food security. The 1943 Bengal famine forced intervention by government to ensure the supply of food to people facing famine. A rationing system was introduced. The first Foodgrains Policy Committee appointed in 1943 recommended procurement of foodgrains from surplus areas, rationing for equitable distribution and statutory price control to check price rise. The Foodgrains Policy Commission, appointed to draft a foodgrains policy for independent India, recommended the abolition of food controls, rationing and the necessity of imports to maintain central reserves. Between 1957-58 and 1966-67, the PDS was dominated by imports from the U.S. under the PL 480 scheme. The creation of artificial profitability for the production of Green Revolution wheat and rice was based on the creation of centralised institutions for the control of farm economies. Two central bodies related to food production, procurement and distribution were established in 1965 on World Bank advice. One was the Food Corporation of India (FCI), which was responsible for procurement, import, distribution, storage and the sale of foodgrain. The other was the Agricultural Prices Commission (APC) which determined minimum support prices for foodgrains, and through it, controlled cropping patterns, land use and profitability. Through food price and procurement, the Central government now controlled the economics of food grain production and distribution. The profitability of foodgrain production in this centralised, subsidised and enclavised form could not be maintained over time. In the 1980s, subsidies became a drain on the government budget. In 1991, the World Bank, which had earlier designed the centralised system, called for its dismantling through its SAPs. The Bank demanded the dismantling of the PDS, the removal of the Essential Commodities Act, the removal of price and inventory control and deregulation of agricultural trade. It recommended the corporatisation of agriculture and a shift from a state-centred to a corporate-centred food system. RADICAL restructuring of the PDS and withdrawal of food subsidies was an important aspect of India's structural adjustment. The revamped PDS (RPDS) was supposed to target vulnerable regions better and reduce public expenditure. However, all that it did was to increase hunger while adding to government expenditure. In 1997, the RPDS was replaced by the Targeted PDS (TPDS). It provided 10 kg of wheat or rice a month to families below poverty line (BPL) at highly subsidised prices and withdrew all subsidies for families above poverty line (APL). As a result, food prices increased, off-take fell, and stocks grew. The TPDS artificially divided the population into BPL and APL categories. Those who access food from fair price shops are those who cannot buy it from the market. The APL category has been defined as those earning above Rs.1,500 a month, which is barely enough to meet basic needs. Those in the APL category have also to bear 100 per cent of the procurement and distribution costs, which places foodgrains far above their reach. In fact, the government committee formulating the long-term grain policy has recommended that the price of grain for the APL category be slashed by 25 per cent. There were major problems with the TPDS. First, the BPL/APL categories were arbitrary and the BPL beneficiaries who were to be targeted were artificially reduced. The whole exercise of targeting BPL families was exposed as a farce when 12 States informed the Supreme Court that they could not identify people in the BPL category. Instead of targeting the poor, the World Bank-driven policies made the poor and their food entitlements disappear. Further, the quantum of allotment of 10 kg of wheat or rice for a family at best meets only 12 per cent of the nutritional requirement, forcing the poor to depend on high markets for 88 per cent of their requirements and consume less, thus reducing off-take from the PDS. The decline in off-take is the main reason for the growing stocks. Fifty million tonnes of foodgrains are rotting while people cannot afford to buy food. Stocks of rice have increased from 13 million tonnes to 22 million tonnes, while wheat stocks have gone up from 872 million tonnes to 2,411 million tonnes. While the conditionalities set by global trade and financial institutions prevent the government from supporting the poor to have access to adequate and nutritious food, they promote the diversion of subsidies from people to corporations. While people have been forced to buy wheat and rice at Rs.11.30 a kg following the withdrawal of subsidies, corporations get wheat and rice at subsidised prices. It is trading giants such as Pepsi and Cargill that have benefited from the withdrawal of food subsidies to the poor and redirection of subsidies for exports. Trade liberalisation is a recipe to starve the poor and feed the corporations. WHILE the World Food Summit totally failed to address the crisis of hunger and the increase in hunger due to globalisation, or find effective solutions to the problem of starvation, movements and non-governmental organisations (NGOs) gathered at the Forum parallel to the Food Summit presented exciting experiences and research. The theme of the NGO Forum was "Food Sovereignty" and it had a broad-based participation of peasants, women, seed saver movements and ecological and organic movements. Studies show that organic/ecological agriculture produces more food, while protecting livelihoods and the environment. At a session organised by Bread for the World at which this writer spoke, the results of a study of 89 projects worldwide showed that sustainable agriculture can lead to substantial increases in per hectare food production. The proportional yield increases are generally 50 per cent to 100 per cent for rainfed crops and 5 per cent to 10 per cent for irrigated crops. At the same session, Greenpeace presented a study that showed that in Argentina, the country in the South with the highest acreage of genetically engineered crops, farm incomes had declined, chemical use had increased and yields of GM crops had decreased. However, none of the studies which showed that neither GMOs nor chemicals are necessary to produce more food informed the official Summit. It blindly promoted biotechnology. The declaration states: "We call on the FAO, in conjunction with the CGIAR (Consultative Group on International Agricultural Research) and other international research institutes, to advance agricultural research and research into new technologies, including biotechnology... We are committed to study, share and facilitate the responsible use of biotechnology in addressing development needs." At a major session on Women and Agriculture in the FAO which this writer was asked to address, links were made between the Food Summit in Rome and the Earth Summit in Johannesburg, organised 10 years after Rio. The challenge from Rome to Johannesburg is to make sustainable agriculture the cornerstone of food and agriculture policy. The evidence and practices are there to prove that the sustainable solutions are also the solutions that promote equity and justice. However, one can already predict that the World Summit on Sustainable Development (WSSD) will be another non-negotiated declaration promoting the interests of global corporations. The trends are clear - a redefinition of globalisation as sustainable development and biotechnology as sustainable agriculture; the replacement of legally binding (Type I) agreements with voluntary partnerships between corporations and governments (Type II) agreements; and the relaunch of the biotechnology agenda through the new economic partnership for Africa (NEPAD). One could ignore these global circuses. However, they redefine our rights and restructure governance to transform our democracies into corporate rule. The Food Summit buried food rights. The WSSD will try to bury people's right to resources. However, the right to food and sustenance is a natural right. Governments can be blind to them. They cannot extinguish them. And people will find new ways to liberate their food systems from corporate control and liberate the poor from hunger. The Rome Summit has clearly laid the contours of the future the powerful are designing. However, history shows us that the future does not always unfold on the design of the powerful. No regime that rests on denying people their right to food lasts. The fall of the Roman Empire is a lesson from the past. The rise of movements like Tebhaga after the Great Bengal Famine is a more recent reminder from history. In spite of millions facing starvation, all that the World Food Summit could offer those who faced hunger and starvation was an "invitation" to FAO "to elaborate, in a period of two years, a set of voluntary guidelines to support members-states' efforts to achieve the progressive realisation of the right to adequate food in the context of national food security". The legally binding obligations of states have been replaced by "voluntary guidelines". At a time when globalisation has more to do with whether people get food or die of hunger, instead of focussing on global trade issues and WTO rules, "national contexts" are all that is addressed. It is clear that it is not the World Food Summit of June 2002 but the struggle of people for their food rights and food sovereignty which will determine the future. *Vandana Shiva is Executive Director, Research Foundation for Science, Technology and Ecology, New Delhi. * ------------------------------ [ Subscribe | Contact Us| Archives | Contents] ------------------------------ [ Home | The Hindu | Business Line | Sportstar ] ------------------------------ Copyright © 2002, Frontline. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of Frontline ------------------------------ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 08:22:56 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 08:22:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? In-Reply-To: <5bedab660908020835v6af19aa8oaec0b28c2ffb2d2d@mail.gmail.com> References: <1249203692.S.13996.56124.f6mail-145-155.rediffmail.com.1249206015.56628@webmail.rediffmail.com> <5bedab660908020627r243c64c0m70d072f4fdc033b9@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908020643u565dbee9v5708e4faefb21f76@mail.gmail.com> <5bedab660908020835v6af19aa8oaec0b28c2ffb2d2d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Pheeta jee I believe there is a difference between organized religion and faith. Faith is personal, and therefore even if two people have different faiths, they won't necessarily attack each other. Religion if organized on the other hand, is political, simply because it involves instilling some common idea or agenda in the minds of many people, and therefore it may (and generally does) also involve a sense of competition to see that there are more and more people across the world believing in that common idea or agenda. So, in my view, faith can actually inhibit communal violence, but religion can't. Regards Rakesh From pawan.durani at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 10:13:58 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 10:13:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Book Review - Zakhmoo Ki Zabani Message-ID: <6b79f1a70908022143k59f58209kca8b52678618c76d@mail.gmail.com> Zakhmoo Ki Zabani Commented upon by Prof. M.L. Koul Author: Pandit Rishidev, Zanipora, Anantnag Pages: 256      Price : Rs. 100/- Pandit Rishidev who is a native of Zainpora, tehsil Shopian, Kashmir has remained a political activist of long standing. The Muslim communalists were as cruel to him as to Kashmiri Pandits in general even though he had been deeply wedded to the cause of peasant welfare and upliftment. Rishidev’s role in the initiation and implementation of purposeful schemes and projects directly related to agricultural operations for increased yield has been widely acclaimed even by his adversaries with communal motivations. Like all Kashmiri Pandits he was driven out of his home and hearth and as a consequence has been wallowing in exile for the past eleven years. His house at Zainapora has been blazed by vandals drawing support from the local Muslim population. In his 155-paged book titled as ‘Zakhmoo Ki Zabani’, essentially a memoir, he has delved in the repertoire of his political experiences with an attempt to put it in perspective. It is pertinent to put that Rishidev in his political career spanning five decades, has had affiliations with National Conference, Indian National Congress, Communist Party of India, Democratic National Conference and Kashmiri Pandit organisations. The ferocious loot, plunder and murder of Kashmiri Pandits in 1931 has found many proponents who have invented the spurious thesis of ‘political and economic oppression of Muslims by the ruling class and their henchmen’ and justified the loot as the struggle of enslaved people against the despotic rule, despite its aggressively communal complexion in its outward form. To cover up the role of marauders a researcher in his thesis has shifted the scene of bigotry and belligerence from Kashmir to Punjab with a view to tracing its communal hue and motivation. In his vivid account of 1931 happenings Rishidev has debunked the text-book formulations of ‘political and economic oppression’, ‘victimized and enslaved people’ and ‘despotic rule’ and has focussed on the communally tainted pathological mind that has been ruling roost in Kashmir seeking satiation in infliction of atrocities of loot, arson and murder on Kashmiri Pandit minority. But, sad as it is, Rishidev, though having a bias for Marxist ideology, has not put the 1931 loot in its proper perspective by probing the role of political and communal forces that planned and executed the loot and murder. He has spared the Reading Room Party which had forged links and alliances with the British Political Department Ahmadiyas. The loot of Kashmiri Pandits was part of a bigger game. The Britishers wanted the Maharaja to abdicate his sovereignty over Gilgit which had emerged as a strategic point on the chess-board of British politics in the region. Through  loot Kashmiri Pandits were punished for the expression of their patriotic sentiment when they made a bonfire of foreign goods. The correspondence between BJ Glanay, L.E. Lang and other British spies and Sheikh Abdullah was first splashed by the Blitz issued from Bombay and found detailed analysis in the ‘Tragedy of Kashmir’, a book authored by H.L. Sexena and banned by the Government of Jammu and Kashmir. Ahmadiyas though hated and shunned as deviants from Islam had clandestine links with the leader of the Reading Room Party. Punjab being their main operational base they spent fabulous sums to fan out in Kashmir. Despite giving some details about the horrendous loot of 1931, Rishidev has not probed the vicious role of Qadeer, a man from Peshawar and a waiter in the employ of an English army officer. His sudden appearance in the mosque of Mir Ali Hamdani, where Muslims had collected in considerable numbers for a political act of choosing their representatives for an audience with the Maharaja was not and could not be accidental. In fact, the whole game plan was pre-thought and pre-planned. Qadeer’s venomous oratory which M.J Akbar lauds ignited the communal trigger resulting in the loot, arson and murder of Kashmiri Pandits throughout the Valley. To be more precise, Qadeer was an Ahmadiya plant and the same was corroborated by Molvi Yousuf Shah, Mirwaiz of Kashmir, who was interviewed by Ghulam Hasan Khan, an author on post-1931 political developments in Kashmir. Owing allegiance to communist politics Rishidev could be one of those Kashmiri Pandit political activists who ideologically believed in the efficacy of land reforms and liquidation of rural debts as twin measures for retrieval of peasantry from economic backwardness. That was how D.P. Dhar who rose to be a central minister was the first to surrender his lands to the Muslim tenants without any consideration. Jia Lal Taimiri who was known for his proverbial honesty and kept a vigilant eye on the corruption and kitties of National Conference leaders and hence detested had also surrendered his lands to the tenants much before the land grab had started. Taimiri was a socialist by conviction. The Muslim leaders of National Conference vintage never emulated or appreciated the extra-ordinary precedent set by the two prominent leaders of Kashmiri Pandits. Instead what they did was to project the Kashmiri Pandits as a community of exploiters.. The fact was that Kashmiri Pandits, not all, but some of them like Muslims, were petty chakdars who had sold their precious assets and ornaments to purchase land. In Mirpur the land was owned by the Muslim land-lords who had been more cruel to their co-religionist tenants than their counter-parts elsewhere. Curiously they were not projected as exploiters of Muslims. Instead Hindu Mahajans pursuing the indigenous system of banking were focussed as the ‘target group’ and ruthlessly harassed and looted by the ‘Jathas’ (groups) despatched from the Punjab by the Ahrars who had pretensions to secularism and deserted the Congress ranks in the wake of the formation of Muslim League for the avowed objective of a separate land for Muslims. The Kashmiri Pandit communists and radical humanists as the innovators of land reforms in terms of an ideograph never controverted the malicious disinformation unleashed by the Muslim leadership of National Conference against Pandit minority in general. The fact is that they were rootless people mired in the quagmire of fantasy leagues away from any commitment to the weal and welfare of the community. Unthinkingly and myopically they pandered the politics of Muslim majoritarianism wedded to the idea of entrenching itself in the state power in perpetuity. Sad as it is, they were completely ignorant of their past history of gore and blood and failed to learn lessons from history with a view to shaping their reasonable responses to the challenges emerging for them as a vulnerable community. It was absolutely bad politics as to have lent unqualified support to the forces of Muslim sub-nationalism unfolding under an elusive facade of left-oriented programmes and sham slogans. As is known to all and sundry consistency was never a virtue of Sheikh Abdullah. He tried to draw maximum support from local communists and communist leadership at national level when he told such elements that he was following their road-map and implementing their cardinal programmes. In his meeting with Loy Handerson he allayed his fears about his radicalism when he told him that he implemented land reforms just to appease communists within National Conference. It was not for nothing that Sheikh Abdullah divulged the land reforms plan in toto from the pulpit of National Conference much before it was put in practice. The purpose was to tip off in advance all the Muslim land-lords to negotiate with their Muslim tenants for showing their land-holdings under self-cultivation or distributing the lands in excess of standard ceiling among family kins. In the process religious affinities were exploited to the hilt. Kashmiri Pandits were at a disadvantage as they subscribed to a different faith. As a matter of prudence a Kashmiri Pandit land-lord had distributed his broad acres among his family kins much before land reforms gained momentum to dispossess a small minority. Later on the mutations attested by the competent revenue authorities were ordered cancelled on the intervention of Revenue Minister who was brazen in his religious prejudices. The Land Reforms Committee nominated in April, 1948 was stuffed with members who were  rubber stamps. There was not a single member equipped with thorough knowledge of all the contemporary models that had been under experimentation in various countries of the world. Nor were the services of a reputed economist borrowed to make the exercise rational, fair, meaningful and purposeful. Why were not the Soviet-type co-operative and collective farms accepted as a model? Why were not the Brazilian and the Chinese models considered for implementation? In fact, no studies were made on scientific lines. No blue-print was spelt out. No long ranging discussions were held with respect to the whole exercise. The communists made a ridiculous suggestion to involve ‘peasant committees’ for the stipulated grab. The nominated members felt proud to mouth panegyrics to the new age lord donning the authority of the chairman of the committee. Dissent if any was dubbed as treachery. The chairman alone knew the contours and shades of the plan and  modalities of its execution. The members getting Rs 200/- p.m. were required to repose full faith in the omniscience of the chairman. The Pandits on the committee were silently told that in view of the plebiscite being held under UN supervision mass of peasants had to be won over for India and giving them land on a platter could be the best bait. This was how Pandit resistance if any to the absurdities of the executive fiat was eliminated. The first secretary of the Land Reforms Committee, a Kashmir, a senior-most Revenue officer, took no time to resign from the committee when he was apprised of the content and methodology of the land reforms as the exercise was officially trotted out. He shocked the chairman of the committee by candidly telling him that he could not be a party to an act which prima facie was illegal. The Muslim policy as it was then, so it is now was to involve a Kashmiri Pandit for implementation of the executive fiat of a sensitive nature. A frantic hunt was launched and the man picked up was a mere matriculate, pliant and senile, career conscious and myopic. He slavishly followed the dictates of his new found masters. When he was asked to bend, he went whole hog for genuflection. The way land reforms were implemented, it virtually ended in the wresting away of land from Hindus and its transfer to the Muslims. To have his own pound of flesh, he meekly approached the powers that be for his elevation to the position and status of the Financial Commissioner. A vehement ‘no’ from the then Prime Minister of the state sent a chill down his spine. The Kashmiri Pandit, perhaps, was ignorant of the resolution of the Muslim Conference submitted to the Maharaja in which among other things it was clearly spell out that no Kashmiri Pandit should be appointed to the key-positions in the state administrative apparatus. The Emergency Administration and the Interim Government lost no time in embarking upon the loot of the landed properties. Both were headed by Sheikh Abdullah who chose himself for the echelon and people were afforded no chance to express their pleasure or displeasure. The land grab process started when there was no elected legislature,  no supervening constitution spelling out a forum for redressal or restoration of basic rights if encroached upon. It was a total vacuum which was fraudulently exploited to snatch away landed properties that were either purchased or legally inherited. The new bosses having been appointed to the positions at the helm had yet to establish their representative character under a constitutionally spell-out democratic process. The loot of landed properties was nearly complete till 1952 when the constituent assembly was constituted under a facade of elections which did not grant any political space to the opposition groups present in the state. The bankruptcy of the political leadership in the country became evident when the list of fundamental rights as incorporated in the Republican Constitution was not allowed full-scale application to the citizens of Jammu and Kashmir with a view to facilitate the processes of loot being perpetrated on the bonafide citizens of the country. The State High Court as appointed by the highly detested ruler of the state dithered in establishing rule of law under a fear psychosis generated by the Emergency and Interim Government lineage-lords. In fact, the accession issue was used, as a weapon of blackmail to weaken the resolve of the Central government to establish the full-dimensional sovereignty of the Republican Constitution over the State of Jammu and Kashmir. The then Indian leadership was shaken in their roots when the five members of the J&K state refused to bring the state under the purview of the Republican Constitution. One of the five members was a Hindu from Jammu. Rishidev is reticent on many issues which have been raised from time to time in relation to the content and methodology of the land reforms. He does not confess that the Land Reforms Committee as constituted under an executive fiat was a mere eye-wash. He does not even dilate upon the differences that had divided the leadership of the National Conference on some of the basic issues relating the land reforms. He does not even tell us that the will of the chairman of the Land Reforms Committee was the ultimate arbiter. He is silent on the issue of the standard ceiling which was fixed at 182 kanals of land and does not convey as to why and how it was kept open for future tamperings to destabilize a vulnerable minority. He does not seem to be aware of the fact that soon after the abolition of the Big Estates Act of 1952 no fewer than 10,000 Kashmiri Pandits bid adieu to their land of genesis in search for a pittance elsewhere. There are some more vital issues which Rishidev has failed to ponder and clarify for guidance of the posterity. How was it that the ceiling was fixed With an individual as a unit of cultivation, not a family? Did he know its implications? It meant that a family was allowed to have as many times the amount of ceiling land as the number of sons in the family and their father. It also meant that they could possess as many times the portions of  exempted lands like bedzars, safedzars et al. It cumulatively meant that a family was deliberately allowed to own a big landed estate. Rishidev, Dr NN Raina, Moti Lal Misri, DP Dhar, Shyam Lal Saraf and those Kashmiri Pandits who declared. Source: Kashmir Sentinel From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 10:54:05 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 10:54:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 5 Message-ID: Indian Express Dealing with the hidden hunger of our children A recent article in the New York Times by Somini Sengupta points out that despite galloping economic growth in India, we have one of the worst malnutrition rates in the world. Sub-Saharan Africa, which conjures up images of famines and emaciated babies, has almost half our percentage of underweight children. So why is there little discussion in the Indian media on the whole issue of malnutrition? When you speak of malnutrition, the response is often glazed eyes and a bored look. In journalism slang, subjects which excite a reader's attention instantly are termed "sexy", those which do not evoke immediate interest are termed "turnoffs". For instance, people respond immediately when they read about starvation deaths during famines and disasters. But it is less easy to evoke sympathy and support when the plight of the victims does not hit you squarely in the face. Ninety per cent of malnutrition cases in India are of the chronically undernourished, where there are not necessarily obvious outward symptoms. Nevertheless this malnutrition doubles our infant mortality rate, making the child twice as susceptible to disease because of lowered immunity. * * In India, we suffer largely from "hidden hunger" which does not always manifest itself in an emaciated appearance. It is a hunger caused by the constant or recurrent lack of food of sufficient quality and quantity. It is the deprivation of vitamins and minerals, essential micronutrients which are necessary for proper growth, physical fitness and mental development. Seventy per cent of Indian children suffer from anaemia (iron deficiency) and over 50 per cent suffer from serious vitamin A deficiency. If hidden hunger is a not a sexy subject, debates on how to fight this malady are even more of a turnoff. This perhaps explains why articles on nutrition programmes in India focus generally on the only sexy solution, the need for hot cooked meals. There is a tendency to look with suspicion on other nutrition initiatives, acceptable worldwide, to combat malnutrition. Sometimes writers even hint darkly that other initiatives promoted by reputed international bodies are simply conspiracies to favour corrupt contractors or business interests. No one interested in rooting out the scourge of malnutrition would contest the supremacy of hot cooked meals for children over three. But I have never understood why the proponents of the hot cooked meals ignore the needs of children below this age. These infants do not eat adult food and experience has shown that their mothers do not have the time to bring them to the anganwadis for a meal they can only nibble at. Children below the age of three require small quantities of calorie and micronutrient-dense food several times a day as a weaning food, and not one solid meal. Weaning food, incidentally, is certainly not biscuits or packaged snacks as some partisan opponents to complementary food try to insinuate. Only one third of Indian children receive adequate complementary food after they are weaned off breast milk, but this major lacuna has not been addressed because of a closed mindset. Breastfeeding is no doubt the best alternative, but there is a responsibility of the state to find an adequate substitute for the 50 per cent of Indian children who are not fortunate enough to be breastfed or weaned early. Our government food programmes for children have unfortunately ignored the needs of this very vulnerable age group, which is most susceptible to malnutrition. Credit should, therefore, be given to the Ministry for Women and Child Welfare, which last month released a note to all state governments laying down nutritional feeding norms for the Integrated Child Development Services (ICDS) scheme. The guidelines are trendsetting. While doubling the budget, the ministry has specified hot cooked meals for children over three. But due recognition has finally been given to the feeding habits of children below this age. The guidelines call for takeaway home rations. It is specified that the complementary food to children under three must be in a form that is palatable to the child and cannot be consumed by the entire family. The guidelines emphasize in addition, the importance of hygiene, micronutrient fortification of food served in the ICDS programmes and spreading the important message of breastfeeding within one hour of birth. Finally, a step in the right direction. From murali.chalam at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 11:01:23 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 11:01:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: <993055.62821.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <4eab87870908020450i13359089jd3316fcb56b92bf9@mail.gmail.com> <993055.62821.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908022231h639801e1t35199f3cdc6174a7@mail.gmail.com> Dear Kshmenmdra, This is the procedure "(iv) Pranayama: Pranayamas are well known breathing exercises for harmonizing the breathing. A simple pranakarÌana pranayama is performed in the pancakarma after enunciating the following mantras. For this, inhale slowly at a steady pace with a feeling that the prana shakti of Gayatri inspissated around is being drawn-in with the breath. Hold the breath for few seconds to absorb this mahaprana that is sparkling like immense glow of the rising sun… Now exhale the breath at the same pace with a firm belief that the impurities and vile assimilation from inside are being expelled forever. Hold the breath out for few seconds with a feeling that the mahaprana is spreading out in the infinity after destroying the vices and sins inside. Repeat this cycle three times. The duration of holding the breath is normally maintained as half that of inhalation/ exhalation in each cycle…. The Mantras: Oan Bhah, Oan Bhuvah, Oan Swah, Oan Mahah, Oan Janah, Oan Tapah, Oan Satyan | Oan Tatsaviturvarenyan Bhargo Devasya Dhimahi Dhiyo Yonah Pracodayat || Oan Apo Jyotih Rasoamratan Brahn Bhur Bhuvah Swah Oan ||" Reference : http://gayatri.awgp.org/SimpleandEffectivedailypracticeofGayatri/ As regards Vuzoo or Namaaz that is also a way of living and is a choice left to the individual. My contention is that we have not made any attempts to understand our own heritage, culture, tradition and scriptures and I would prefer to try understand what we already have and then try attempting others. Our very own Vedas is vast and has enough scientific material, which has been best utilised by the germans. Regards, V Murali On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 6:11 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Murali > > Thank you for the quoting from the Website. I noticed though that these are > not the words of Satya Sai Baba. His words are reproduced in quotes. > > As far as I am aware, for a Mantra to be a Pranayamic exercise, the > recitation of words would have to be matched with specified timings, > intensity (and source of breath) linked with Inhalation, Retention and > Exhalation (Puraka, Kumbhaka, Rechaka). > > As far as I am aware, there is no such regime for the Gayatri Mantra. > > You did not comment on my suggestion. Let me repeat it: > > """""""" While on this topic, why not introduce Vuzoo and Namaaz too into > your proposed regime? > > Vuzoo is an excellent habit for maintaining basic cleanliness and > Namaaz entails a set of postures in which (fascinatingly) you can see a > digest of various Yogic Aasanas."""""" > > Kshmendra > > > > --- On *Sun, 8/2/09, Murali V * wrote: > > > From: Murali V > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS > To: "Kshmendra Kaul" > Cc: "sarai list" > Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 5:20 PM > > > Dear Kshmedra, > "Touted" I dont need to as I am not marketing it or its concept. I just > shared what I have come to understand of it. > "Exercise of chanting Gayatri is essentially Pranayama, hence breathing is > regulated, chanellised and perfected." This is a quote from " This a quote > from "http://www.saibabaforbeginners.com/gayatri.html" > Thanks and Regards, > V Murali > > On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 3:22 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > > wrote: > >> Dear Murali >> >> This is the first time I have heard Gayatri Mantra being touted as a >> 'breathing exercise'. Could you please elaborate on that? >> >> If you were to speak about the benefits of Pranayamic exercises >> (especially Ujjayi Pranayam), that would make some sense. But Gayatri Mantra >> as a 'breathing exercise'???? >> >> While on this topic, why not introduce Vuzoo and Namaaz too into your >> proposed regime? >> >> Vuzoo is an excellent habit for maintaining basic cleanliness and Namaaz >> entails a set of postures in which (fascinatingly) you can see a digest of >> various Yogic Aasanas. >> >> Kshmendra >> >> --- On *Sat, 8/1/09, Murali V >> >* wrote: >> >> >> From: Murali V > >> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS >> To: "Pheeta Ram" >> > >> Cc: "sarai list" >> > >> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 12:00 PM >> >> Dear Anupam, >> Dear Anupam, >> >> The issue of uniformity has still not been addressed. A burkha clad girl >> in >> a school cannot be questioned and if done, the media and the entire >> pseudo-seculars go all out to call it hindu fanaticism. >> >> Atma or the soul, life after death and re-birth are concepts which is >> their >> in most faiths. Moreover the Gaytri mantra is also a breathing exercise as >> the stanzas repeated in its correct form has set timings to control >> breath. >> >> Regards, >> V Murali >> >> >> > > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 11:10:35 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 11:10:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908022231h639801e1t35199f3cdc6174a7@mail.gmail.com> References: <4eab87870908020450i13359089jd3316fcb56b92bf9@mail.gmail.com> <993055.62821.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908022231h639801e1t35199f3cdc6174a7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I wonder if our heritage also provides some answers to solving the problems of law and order, employment generation, deprivation and hunger in various ways, high female and child mortality rates, female infanticide, terrorism and other things as well. May be those can help the population at large as well. And of course, solving the problem of getting justice for all in a judicious and fair manner. If there is anything on that, please do post that as well. Regards Rakesh From pawan.durani at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 11:25:04 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 11:25:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] ART & CULTURE - The Holy Shrine of Kheer Bhawani Message-ID: <6b79f1a70908022255p5d2b32bbqe812391b5d84ee4e@mail.gmail.com> The Holy Shrine of Kheer Bhawani >From ancient times, the shrines, centres of worship and maths have played an important role in the lives of the people. These are the centres of the community life and have also enchanced the national integration. Moreover, the religious shrines have influenced our spiritual education and have been a source of inspiration. At present, too, pilgrims in lakhs go to the holy spots to worship with full faith. KhirBhawani, Tulla Mulla (URL) The area of Jammu and Kashmir is the abode of gods and goddesses and famous for scenic beauty. The temple of Kheer Bhawani and the pilgrim centre of Maharagya Devi is situated at a distance of 14 miles east of Srinagar against the background of natural sight near the village of Tula Mula. This temple, made of marble stone, is located in the middle of a spring, around which there is a vast area whose floor has been covered with smooth and beautiful stones. In it exist large and old chinar trees beneath which the pilgrims sit or sleep on mats of grass. The colour of the spring goes on changing and it is said that whenever any horrifying and unfortunate event has to happen, the colour of its water becomes black. Maharagya Pradurbhave is the history of Kheer Bhawani itself. In it is written that Maharagya was pleased with the devotion of Ravana and appeared before him and Ravana got an image of the goddess installed in Ceylone. But the goddess became displeased with the vicious and licentious life of Ravana and so didn't want to stay in Ceylone. Therefore, under the command of the goddess, Hanuman got the image from Ceylone and installed it at the holy spot of Tula Mulla. In those days there was a deep relation between Kashmir and Ceylone, therefore the father of Ravana, Pul Satya Muni, lived in Kashmir and performed his meditation (tapasya). Walter awrence writes that Kheer Bhawani is the great goddess of Kashmir and the spring of Kheer Bhawani is considered very pious but it is little known that the cult of worshipping this goddess has started from Ceylone. The hymns and devotional songs of this goddess are found in the Sanskrit Book Rudrayamala Tantra. The mention of Kheer Bhawani is found in Kalhana's Rajtarangini. Kalhana writes that the sacred spring of Tula Mula is situated in a marshy ground. The name of the spring is Mata Ragini Kund. Maharagini is the form of Durga Bhagvati. The Brahmins of Kashmir worship this spring and pilgrims from every comer of the country visit to have the darshan of the place. Further, it is written therein that Jayapida who ruled for thirty-one ears in the last part of the 18th century also founded the town of Inderkot, This Jayapida confiscated the lands of the Brahmins of Tula Mula and ninety-nine Brahmins committed suicide for this reason by jumping in the river; but it had no effect on the king and he did not return the Brahmins their lands. One day when the Brahmins of Tula Mula went with a complaint to the king, the guards of the palace beat them but still they were successful in sneaking into the palace. They told the king that if the Brahmins got angry they could unite the earth and sky together and make the mountains level with the plains and also finish the king. Hearing this the king became red with anger and rebuffed them by saying that they were being vicious. Although they lived by begging they talked like rishis and munis. At this one Brahmin whose name was Diyannu Attal replied, "if we are not so spiritual as were our ancestors neither are the kings any longer so great". The king replied that he was no Vishvamitra or Agnsth. The Brahmin replied that he could also show prowess like Vishvamitra. Diyannu Attal shouted at the king, "Oh unfortunate Raja! May goddess destroy you before my very eyes". So, according to Kalhana, the heavy pole of the throne's canopy fell down on him and after a few days of great agony he died. In Rajtarangini Tula Mula is considered very sacred and the Brahmins of Tula Mula were very great and powerful. The spring of Maharagya was very sacred. Thousands of years ago many floods occured in Kashmir and the sacred spring of Tula Mula also was inundated under its sway and the holy place could nowhere be traced. All around was water. At last Kashmir's Yogi Krishna Pandit had a dream in which the goddess appeared to him and ordered that she would swim in the form of a snake at the proper place and that he should stick large poles and when the water subsided there the holy spot was discovered. This event happened during the Samvat 4041. According to Jona Raja Sikander, the iconoclast destroyed most of the temples and tried to make this temple as well the target of his impious action but failed. Kamudi in her book, "Kashmir-Its Cultural Heritage" writes that this temple remained lost for quite a long period and no pilgrim visited this place till one Pandit Krishna Taplu again discovered it and once again its prominence rose and pilgrims started coming here. The mention of this temple is also found in Abu-i-Fazal's book Aini-Akbari in which is written that the area of Tula Mula extended over the area of hundred bighas of land, which got sunk in the summer season and formed into a marsh. The advisor of Dara Shuku was Sham Sunder Koul about whom Shri Balkak Dhar writes in an article that Sham Lal Koul was a great saint and a devotee of Shakti cult and used to make the offering of meat and wine to gods and goddesses. When one day he came to Tula Mula he offered the same things according to the precepts of his cult but what is astonishing that the meat, etc. were changed into vegetables. In his article Mr. Dhar has further written that a devotee Krishna Kar, who contemplated on this goddess got a high spiritual power. This very Krishna Kar was the Guru of the famous Rishi leer Pandit Padsha whose birthplace vas in Batta Yar, Ali Kadal. Both the Hindus and the Muslims used to come to pay their devotion to the goddess. Swami Rama Tirtha and Swami Vivekananda also visited here to have the darshan of the place. With the pouring of milk and throwing of sugar candy in the spring by the pilgrims, a thick and solid layer was formed at its bottom. When it was cleared, the ruins of an old temple and shrine slabs engraved with figures were discovered. Here many images were also found but nobody rebuilt the temple till the Samvat 1969 when Maharaja Pratap Singly who was the disciple and worshipped this goddess, got a marvellous temple of marble made in the midst of the spring which shines like a pearl in a shell. Pandit Aftab Kaul has written in his book "At the Feet of the Master" that for spiritual knowledge, spiritual perfection and salvation there are four prescribed stages in a journey from Srinagar to Kheer Bhawani. First stage is the holy spring of VicharNag; second, is the Kawaj Nar (the Land of Lire). From Vichar Nag on the right side of the road is the beautiful Lake of Anchar (Achar) which before the opening of the motorable road, was a short-cut and a charming way to Tula Mula. Aftertis the next stage is one of Tengul Bal (the Hill of the Burning Embers). After crossing all these stages the pilgrim reaches at the feet of Maharagya Kheer Bhawani. This is like "Pilgrim's Progress" written by John Bunyan. Some people are of the opinion that there was a mulberry tree near holy spot of Kheer Bhawani which, in Kashmiri, is called Tul Mul. But Tul Mul is also derived from the Sanskrit phrase-Tul Muli-that is of great value. This means that all other pilgrim centres are of lesser value than this one. It is said that after Ravapa fnished the worship of the goddess he offered the kheer (rice pudding) to the goddess which she accepted and since then it is called Kheer Bhawani. The worship of Kheer Bhawani can done under Vedic mantras as well as Tantric mantras. According to Tantric system, the mantra of Maharagya Kheer Bhawani is: Om Heem Shree Kaleem Bhagvatya Ragya Swaha All the desires and hopes of a person are fulfilled by repeating this mantra. The Bhagvati Parvati has got nine forms: 1. Shailputri 2. Vrhama Charini 3. Chander Ganta 4. Kashmandi 5. Kumari 6. Katyayani 7. Kamaratri 8. MataGouri 9. Siddhi Datri. It is said that Ragya form is more eminent than all other eight ones. The sacred place of Kheer Bhawani has been the centre of Sanskrit learning and literature since many ages. The Brahmins of this place had achieved excellence in religious and yoga knowledge. The festival of Bhagvati Kheer Bhawani is held in the Ashtami of Jeth and Har. Therefore, in these two days, crowds of people go there in buses and doongas. Three or four days before the festival, large markets come into existence. The road journey to the village from the Kheer Bhawani is lined with decorated shops containing many things of common use. The pilgrims before worshipping bathe in the nearby holy stream. There is a separate arrangement for the bathing of women. The eating of meat is strictly forbidden hers. It is said that anyone who does not act on this precept is severely punished by the goddess. It is a matter of experience that the effect of piety on the mind of the man by going to this holy place and by bathing in the stream, is one of peace and joy. Even an atheist, when he comes here and looks inward and does introspection, gets immense pleasure and is aware of the divine power. It is such a place where lakhs of people sing the same kind of prayer. In the evening when the fragrant breeze blows and lakhs of oil lamps shine and flowers ofvarious hues swim on the surface of the spring, one feels a unique influence and forgets all sorrow and griefs. Although many hymns have been written in praise of this goddess in Sanskrit, Persian and Kashmiri yet the best one is known as Ragini Sabassai Nama. The management of this holy place is under the Dharmarth, which has done a lot for the improvement of this holy spot. More land has been purchased to give extension to the place so that large number of people can be accommodated here. Now there is more than twelve kanals of lands around the spring. Dharmashalas on modern lines have been constructed for the pilgrims to stay here without rent. The needy are given blankets as well. Many new shops have been constructed and taps also arranged for the supply of water. This is a paradise for those people who want to derive pleasure from the natural scenery. It is a peaceful place for those who desire mental peace. For spiritual upliftment and worship this is an excellent place. One undertakes the pilgrimage both by road and river. Around Kheer Bhawani flows the bubbling brooks and murmuring streams and far away are seen picturesque mountains. In short, this is the most captivating place for anyone. The people have great faith and respect for this holy place. The atmosphere of this place at night, too, is marvelous. At different spots here groups of people sing hymns in Kashmiri with a melodious voice. These devotional songs have such a sweet charm as can be seen from the few verses of the devotional songs written by Krishna Razdan. Its English rendering is as follows: Devi, remove all my sorrows! I offer the flowers of devotion. Bestow me your benign darshan And my illusion will be dispelled. Goddess, remove all my sorrows! Devi, favour me with your kind look; Goddess, remove all my sorrows! Before you all the time sit Rishis; Thus have they your darshan They sit bowing their heads Goddess, remove all my sorrows! They ignite incense before you And play on sitar and santoor; Drums and varied musical instruments. Goddess, save me from all sorrows! I have no knowledge Nor incantation of Mantras Save my life's boat every time Goddess, remove all my sorrows! Source: The Rich Heritage of Jammu and Kashmir Studies in Art, Architecture, History and Culture of the Region By Prof. Somnath Wakhlu From pawan.durani at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 11:26:23 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 11:26:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] LITERATURE - Kashmir: The Abode of Wisdom Message-ID: <6b79f1a70908022256n29fce757y1987174fd0ecda1a@mail.gmail.com> Kashmir: The Abode of Wisdom "From the beginning of time men have sought the solution to a three­-faced mystery: the mystery of origin, the mystery of present being and the mystery of destiny. Usually their search has been directed outwards amongst the data of sense experience; backwards into the apparent certainty of the accomplished, forwards to the speculation into the indeterminate future". Thus says the author of the book Man, the Measure of All Things, Shri Krishna Prem. From time to time in every country some wise men have tried to penetrate this "mysterious tremendous". They have in their own way made a quest for truth and expressed it, often in poetry and art. They are the apostles of true wisdom. Philosophical wisdom and religion have their different fields in the Occident but not in the Orient. Here wise men have not wasted their breath in logically proving the existence of the Supreme Reality. They have tried, in the words of L.P. Jacks, "to raise the faculty of insight to the requisite pitch for penetrating the disguising of deity". Like Jammu, Kashmir, too, has been fortunate in having been the abode of wisdom. Shaivism of Kashmir is a distinct philosophy and wisdom in its own right, which originated and flourished in Kashmir. The Celestial Valley also cradled in its arms a unique type of Hindu mysticism and Muslim Sufism. KASHMIRI SHAIVISM It is not possible to penetrate the thick veil of obscurity that hangs round the beginnings of Kashmiri Shaivism. Nevertheless, it traces its origin to the Shiva-Sutra, which is ascribed to Lord Shiva himself. The Sutras were revealed to Vasugupta, who lived between 8th and the 9th century A.D. Among his followers were Kallata, Somananda and Abhinavgupta, who, too, have written their treaties on Shaivism. According to the philosophy of Kashmiri Shaivism the Ultimate Reality is Shiv or Shambu. He is the Self of all beings, moving and nonmoving. He is immanent, that is permanently pervading the universe, inherent in it but, at the same time, transcendental, that is surpassing the universe. Shiva is the Reality beyond which there is nothing. He is Pure Consciousness (Chaitanya), Absolute Experience (Para-samarit) and the Supreme Lord (Paramesvara), from whom the world comes into being as the reflection. Abhinavgupta in Paramarthsara has illustrated it thus : "As syrup, molasses, jaggery, sugar-balls, candy, etc. are all like juice of the sugar-cane, so the diverse conditions are all of Shambu, the Super Self". Abhinavgupta again says: "As in the orb of a mirror pictures such as those of a town or a village shine which are inseparable from it and yet are distinct from one another and from it, so from the perfectly pure vision of the Supreme-Bhairava, this universe void of distinction appears distinct from that vision". The universe is thus but the self-manifestation of Shiva by his own free will and is ingrained in it. The immanent aspect of Shiva is called Shakti, which is, it may be noted, not an independent entity, but his creative energy. It is five-fold: (i) Chit-Shakti, the power of intelligence or self-luminosity (ii) Ananda Shakti, the power of independence which is bliss (iii) Iccha-Shakti, the volition which makes Purma Shiva feel supremely able and irresistible will so that he can do or create something (iv) Jnana-Shakti, the power of knowledge by which Shiva brings all objects in conscious relations with himself and with one another (v) Kriya-Shakti, the power of action by which he can assume all kinds of forms. Man's bondage is due to the ignorance (ajnana) of the Reality. The individual soul though identical with the Supreme suffers in this world, because it has forgotten its real nature and considers itself to be finite; though independent, it identifies itself with the body. The way to the liberation from bondage lies in the soul's recognition of its identity with the Ultimate Reality. Though the individual soul is but the universal soul but it must recognise it. The soul which recognises its oneness with Shiva or God, enjoys pure bliss. This is possible through yogic meditation. Madhavacharya makes it clear by saying that a love-torn lady is very eager to meet her lover. But the presence of her lover can give her no gratification unless she recognises him to be her lover and possessing the virtues she heard of. He says, "in like manner, though the personal self is manifested as identical with the Universal Soul, its manifestation effects no complete satisfaction so long as there is no recognition of those attributes (of Param Shiva); but as soon as it is taught by a spiritual director to recognise in itself the perfection of Mahesvara, his omniscience, omnipotence and other attributes, it attains the whole phenomena of being". Mokasa, therefore, consists of in returning to the purity of consciousness. Abhinavgupta says, "When thus the imagination of quality has vanished, and he (the released soul) has surmounted the Maya, he is merged in Brahman, as water in water, as milk in milk". It is through contemplation that one can realise it. KASHMIRI MYSTICISM Mysticism in Kashmir is unique. There are Hindu mystics whose principles and methods resemble or are identical with Muslim saints and darveshes. There are also Muslim Rishis or Sufis who have been influenced by Kashmiri Shaivism and Hindu thought. But both the sects believe that there is an "organic process which involves the perfect consummation of the love of God, the achievement here and now of the immortal heritage of man or it is the art of establishing his conscious relation with the Absolute". The known Hindu mystics are Lai Ded, Rupa Bhavani, Parmanand, Lakshman Joo and Krishna Razdan, etc. Lal Ded is eminent among them all. The Muslims call her Lalla Arifa and say that she became a Muslim mystic. Undoubtedly she attacked idol worship and other practices ofthe Brahmans. She was born in the middle of 14th century, when Sultan Alaud-Din, who ascended the throne in 1347 A. D., ruled over Kashmir, Lalla has expressed her thoughts in verse and her mysticism is based on Kashmiri monistic Shaivism. In many of her verses she speaks of her yogic sadhana and discipline of breath. Parmanand after about five centuries, adores her thus: "Lalleshwari, unique in her practice of the Yoga of Dvaadashaanta Mandala, Realising anaahaata, naada binds Om Attained the Supreme Bliss of Ananda". The central principle of Hindu mysticism is love, so it is of Lal Ded and others. They all understand it "as the ultimate expression of the self's most vital tendencies, not as the superficial affection or emotion". It is, in fact, "a total dedication of the will, the deep seated desire and tendency of the soul towards its Source". Parmanand, another great Hindu mystic, also believed in this principle. He belongs to what has been termed "Lila-group" of Hindu mystics and has composed songs in praise of the Lila, that is, play of personal God, mainly Krishna and Shival. His poems and those of his followers are devotional in nature and saturated with mysticism. "The Universe exists; it is real and is good. Indeed all creation is an overflowing of God's joy, a Lila, a Shiva's Dance". They do not believe in asceticism or renunciation. They don't care for outward formality and lay stress on inward experience. They believe in enjoyment rather than renunciation in the tradition of Kashmiri Shaivism: "Rass is when Love's expanse broadens into an ocean; Rass is an equipoise mid sour and sweet; Rass is where there is no trace of sin. Our dance is devotion, yoga or jnana. Our dance is samadhi in "wakeful activity". Swami Parmanand (URL) Parmanand has very clearly expressed the aim and method of Hindu mysticism in the following verse: "To seek unity with God is to venture forth And hazard all, to experience self within..." and he goes on to say: "And shut it (mind) in, and turn its gaze inwards, Commune with the Self within, the subtle All-composing Chit which inhabits all that is, And in which all things live and move" KASHMIRI SUFISM Sufism came to Kashmir from Iran and it got greatly influenced by Hindu thought. The Reality, according to the Sufis, is one and Allah is the Supreme Truth and all else is illusion and transitory. A Sufi says: "Be not entrapped by the existence The Universe is but a fib of fancy". Among the famous Sufis are Sheikh Nur-ud-Din, popularly known as Nund Rishi, Shah Gafoor, Shah Qalandar, Naima Sahib, Shams Faqir and Socha Kral, etc. They all believe that God is present everywhere. His light is present in every particle. A man must have the eye to observe it. Nund Rishi says: "How can the kite hunt the hawk? How can the barren woman feel the ardour of mother's love? How can the faggot, like the candle, flash into a flame? How can the fly feel the martyrdom of the moth?" "I am He" is the main idea of Kashmiri Sufism. Man is just the manifestation of that High Reality, i.e., God. Thus man's destination is the same source of whom he is the manifestation. There are, according to Sheikh Attar, six stages in this path : (1) Amar, i.e. renunciation (2) Ishq, love of God (3) in the third stage the seeker kills all kinds of desires and temptations. He leaves even sleep. (4) In the fourth stage the man delves deep into the truth and meditates on the virtues of God. He tries to know God perfectly. He sees Him in every sight. (5) Then in the fifth stage he acquires excellence and he is in a state of ecstasy and his eyes get fixed on a single point. (6) In the last stage he reaches his destination and gets the real purpose of being face to face with Reality. Thus Kashmiri Sufis say Annaual-Haq, (I am the Truth) and Vajood ul makhlook ain ul Khaliq that means, all the objects of the world are all but the manifestation of one Allah. Rehman Dar, the great Sufi sings: "Blossomed has the land of the Divine; Shines like the sun All the nature has brightened With the splendour of His Grace." Again, Naima Saib, another Sufi says: "Drop emerges from drop All is but a vast sea. Himself the sea, Himself the moon Himself the shining flame". There are the ideas of a Hindu mystic as well. In Kashmir we find that both the Hindus and the Muslims go with reverence to the shrines of Lal Ded, Nund Rishi, Dastgeer Sahib and Meisha Saib, etc. Source: The Rich Heritage of Jammu and Kashmir Studies in Art, Architecture, History and Culture of the Region By Prof. Somnath Wakhlu A. Kashmir Shaivism: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KashmirShaivism/ From pheeta.ram at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 11:47:30 2009 From: pheeta.ram at gmail.com (Pheeta Ram) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 11:47:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908022231h639801e1t35199f3cdc6174a7@mail.gmail.com> References: <4eab87870908020450i13359089jd3316fcb56b92bf9@mail.gmail.com> <993055.62821.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908022231h639801e1t35199f3cdc6174a7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5bedab660908022317m32f676cbkca63dbd72d53103e@mail.gmail.com> *Dear Murali, You wrote: "*My contention is that we have not made any attempts to understand *our own* heritage, culture, tradition and scriptures and I would prefer to try understand what we already have and then try attempting *others*.*"* Would you mind telling us what is "OUR OWN" heritage, culture, tradition that we have baked in "OUR OWN" kitchen and what is the heritage, culture, tradition of "OTHERS"? Had you been able to grasp the "weight" and "complexity" of each of these categories you certainly would not have blurted them out in one single breath like some* mantra*. It's a pity that you have such a narrow and SICK understanding of "heritage, culture and tradition." If you begin all your explorations with categories like "our own" and "others" i wonder if you would ever be able to grasp even the so called "spirit" of y"our own" scriptures. Purge your language first, its here that you make or unmake yourself. These are not just words, they turn into muscles in our body and neurons of our brains. Be-aware. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Murali V wrote: > Dear Kshmenmdra, > This is the procedure > "(iv) Pranayama: Pranayamas are well known breathing exercises for > harmonizing the breathing. A simple pranakarÌana pranayama is performed in > the pancakarma after enunciating the following mantras. For this, inhale > slowly at a steady pace with a feeling that the prana shakti of Gayatri > inspissated around is being drawn-in with the breath. Hold the breath for > few seconds to absorb this mahaprana that is sparkling like immense glow of > the rising sun… Now exhale the breath at the same pace with a firm belief > that the impurities and vile assimilation from inside are being expelled > forever. Hold the breath out for few seconds with a feeling that the > mahaprana is spreading out in the infinity after destroying the vices and > sins inside. Repeat this cycle three times. The duration of holding the > breath is normally maintained as half that of inhalation/ exhalation in > each > cycle…. > > The Mantras: > Oan Bhah, Oan Bhuvah, Oan Swah, Oan Mahah, Oan Janah, Oan Tapah, Oan Satyan > | > Oan Tatsaviturvarenyan Bhargo Devasya Dhimahi Dhiyo Yonah Pracodayat || > Oan Apo Jyotih Rasoamratan Brahn Bhur Bhuvah Swah Oan ||" > > Reference : > http://gayatri.awgp.org/SimpleandEffectivedailypracticeofGayatri/ > > As regards Vuzoo or Namaaz that is also a way of living and is a choice > left > to the individual. My contention is that we have not made any attempts to > understand our own heritage, culture, tradition and scriptures and I would > prefer to try understand what we already have and then try attempting > others. Our very own Vedas is vast and has enough scientific material, > which > has been best utilised by the germans. > > > Regards, > V Murali > On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 6:11 PM, Kshmendra Kaul >wrote: > > > Dear Murali > > > > Thank you for the quoting from the Website. I noticed though that these > are > > not the words of Satya Sai Baba. His words are reproduced in quotes. > > > > As far as I am aware, for a Mantra to be a Pranayamic exercise, the > > recitation of words would have to be matched with specified timings, > > intensity (and source of breath) linked with Inhalation, Retention and > > Exhalation (Puraka, Kumbhaka, Rechaka). > > > > As far as I am aware, there is no such regime for the Gayatri Mantra. > > > > You did not comment on my suggestion. Let me repeat it: > > > > """""""" While on this topic, why not introduce Vuzoo and Namaaz too into > > your proposed regime? > > > > Vuzoo is an excellent habit for maintaining basic cleanliness > and > > Namaaz entails a set of postures in which (fascinatingly) you can see a > > digest of various Yogic Aasanas."""""" > > > > Kshmendra > > > > > > > > --- On *Sun, 8/2/09, Murali V * wrote: > > > > > > From: Murali V > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS > > To: "Kshmendra Kaul" > > Cc: "sarai list" > > Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 5:20 PM > > > > > > Dear Kshmedra, > > "Touted" I dont need to as I am not marketing it or its concept. I just > > shared what I have come to understand of it. > > "Exercise of chanting Gayatri is essentially Pranayama, hence breathing > is > > regulated, chanellised and perfected." This is a quote from " This a > quote > > from "http://www.saibabaforbeginners.com/gayatri.html" > > Thanks and Regards, > > V Murali > > > > On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 3:22 PM, Kshmendra Kaul http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> > > > wrote: > > > >> Dear Murali > >> > >> This is the first time I have heard Gayatri Mantra being touted as a > >> 'breathing exercise'. Could you please elaborate on that? > >> > >> If you were to speak about the benefits of Pranayamic exercises > >> (especially Ujjayi Pranayam), that would make some sense. But Gayatri > Mantra > >> as a 'breathing exercise'???? > >> > >> While on this topic, why not introduce Vuzoo and Namaaz too into your > >> proposed regime? > >> > >> Vuzoo is an excellent habit for maintaining basic cleanliness and Namaaz > >> entails a set of postures in which (fascinatingly) you can see a digest > of > >> various Yogic Aasanas. > >> > >> Kshmendra > >> > >> --- On *Sat, 8/1/09, Murali V http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=murali.chalam at gmail.com> > >> >* wrote: > >> > >> > >> From: Murali V http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=murali.chalam at gmail.com>> > >> > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS > >> To: "Pheeta Ram" http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pheeta.ram at gmail.com> > >> > > >> Cc: "sarai list" http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=reader-list at sarai.net> > >> > > >> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 12:00 PM > >> > >> Dear Anupam, > >> Dear Anupam, > >> > >> The issue of uniformity has still not been addressed. A burkha clad girl > >> in > >> a school cannot be questioned and if done, the media and the entire > >> pseudo-seculars go all out to call it hindu fanaticism. > >> > >> Atma or the soul, life after death and re-birth are concepts which is > >> their > >> in most faiths. Moreover the Gaytri mantra is also a breathing exercise > as > >> the stanzas repeated in its correct form has set timings to control > >> breath. > >> > >> Regards, > >> V Murali > >> > >> > >> > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 12:05:06 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:05:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Articles on Gender, Education, and Disabilities Message-ID: If you want the PDFs of the articles and/or the e-book, mail me. - Chandni ----- *Journal Article: **Sissies, Dolls, and Dancing: Children's Literature and Gender Deviance in the Seventies Excerpts: *During the late 1960s and the 1970s in the United States, discourses on gender were proliferating; creating a charged, unstable category that formed the center of much scientific, academic, and social inquiry. The nation's first "gender identity clinic" opened at Johns Hopkins in 1965 and the first sex reassignment surgery was completed in 1966 (Wexler). Second wave feminism—and its serious questioning of gender roles—increasingly influenced both society and academia (Duberman xi). The National Institute of Mental Health awarded funds to several institutions around the country to conduct various forms of research on childhood gender problems; the largest of these projects took place at the UCLA Gender Identity Research and Treatment Clinic (Burke 32–33). * *A Guide to Non-sexist Children's Books lists eighty-three early childhood books published between 1976 and 1980 that deal with characters of both sexes who do not conform to strict gender norms. -----* Book: The Big Read: Stories in Support of Education *This storybook was created by the Global Campaign for Education. A compilation of short stories from influential figures around the world, The Big Read tells remarkable tales of education and the struggles of those who are denied the chance to learn. ----- *Journal Article: **To Love and Be Loved: Sexuality and People with Physical Disabilities by Randi S. Chance *Excerpt: * *She explores possible effects of disabilities on sexual self-concept, romantic relationships, and sexual activities as well as describes some practical steps that can be taken to remedy specific difficulties. The author encourages psychotherapists to prepare themselves to respond intelligently and comfortably to the sexual questions and issues raised by their physically disabled clients, regardless of the presenting problem. ----- From pheeta.ram at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 12:10:07 2009 From: pheeta.ram at gmail.com (Pheeta Ram) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:10:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? In-Reply-To: References: <1249203692.S.13996.56124.f6mail-145-155.rediffmail.com.1249206015.56628@webmail.rediffmail.com> <5bedab660908020627r243c64c0m70d072f4fdc033b9@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908020643u565dbee9v5708e4faefb21f76@mail.gmail.com> <5bedab660908020835v6af19aa8oaec0b28c2ffb2d2d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5bedab660908022340l55ac1fbasfcecbeb453d28572@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh, How i wish life could be lived with such neat categories but such is not the case to my mind. If categories help us make sense of our life-world then they also confuse and in everyday lived experience these categories tresspass into each other's territories without our permission. Boundaries blur during hyper-normal times and personal turns into political catching us unawares. If i belong to a particular organised religion i don't leave it at my doorstep the moment i enter my home i carry it with me wherever i go. The capillaries of "belief" nurture the fountains of "organised religion." On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:22 AM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Pheeta jee > > I believe there is a difference between organized religion and faith. Faith > is personal, and therefore even if two people have different faiths, they > won't necessarily attack each other. Religion if organized on the other > hand, is political, simply because it involves instilling some common idea > or agenda in the minds of many people, and therefore it may (and generally > does) also involve a sense of competition to see that there are more and > more people across the world believing in that common idea or agenda. > > So, in my view, faith can actually inhibit communal violence, but religion > can't. > > Regards > > Rakesh > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 12:28:45 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:28:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? In-Reply-To: <5bedab660908022340l55ac1fbasfcecbeb453d28572@mail.gmail.com> References: <1249203692.S.13996.56124.f6mail-145-155.rediffmail.com.1249206015.56628@webmail.rediffmail.com> <5bedab660908020627r243c64c0m70d072f4fdc033b9@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908020643u565dbee9v5708e4faefb21f76@mail.gmail.com> <5bedab660908020835v6af19aa8oaec0b28c2ffb2d2d@mail.gmail.com> <5bedab660908022340l55ac1fbasfcecbeb453d28572@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes, they do. But faith is something which makes me do what I like. That may not be the case with organized religion. For example, most of the time I go to religious places (places of religious importance), what I like is not so much worshipping the deities there (which I can of course at my home any way), but seeing the devotion of others, the architecture specialities (if any), and the surroundings and the environment they create for that devotion, in terms of the kind of people visiting and also the way the place is kept. Organized religion will go hammer and tongs at me for thinking in this way. But not faith. Regards Rakesh From murali.chalam at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 12:38:55 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:38:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: <5bedab660908022317m32f676cbkca63dbd72d53103e@mail.gmail.com> References: <4eab87870908020450i13359089jd3316fcb56b92bf9@mail.gmail.com> <993055.62821.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908022231h639801e1t35199f3cdc6174a7@mail.gmail.com> <5bedab660908022317m32f676cbkca63dbd72d53103e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908030008w59b13f16j4472c47a71970522@mail.gmail.com> Dear The Vedas, Upanishads, the epic are all, which I am proud to call our own and those are so vast that a life time is not enough. There has to be a start somewhere and as I said I would rather start with those rather than pick on everything and understanding nothing. I would rather prefer to live a way of living which is to my liking without infringing or affecting others. As regards my capabilities, I would take your judgement as a positive comment and strive to better myself. Regards, V Murali On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Pheeta Ram wrote: > *Dear Murali, > > You wrote: > > "*My contention is that we have not made any attempts to > understand *our own* heritage, culture, tradition and scriptures and I > would > prefer to try understand what we already have and then try attempting > *others*.*"* > Would you mind telling us what is "OUR OWN" heritage, culture, tradition > that we have baked in > "OUR OWN" kitchen and what is the heritage, culture, tradition of "OTHERS"? > > Had you been able to grasp the "weight" and "complexity" of each of these > categories you certainly would not have blurted them out in one single > breath like some* mantra*. > > It's a pity that you have such a narrow and SICK understanding of > "heritage, culture and tradition." > If you begin all your explorations with categories like "our own" and > "others" i wonder if you would ever be able > to grasp even the so called "spirit" of y"our own" scriptures. > > Purge your language first, its here that you make or unmake yourself. These > are not just words, they turn into > muscles in our body and neurons of our brains. > > Be-aware. > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Murali V wrote: > >> Dear Kshmenmdra, >> This is the procedure >> "(iv) Pranayama: Pranayamas are well known breathing exercises for >> harmonizing the breathing. A simple pranakarÌana pranayama is performed in >> the pancakarma after enunciating the following mantras. For this, inhale >> slowly at a steady pace with a feeling that the prana shakti of Gayatri >> inspissated around is being drawn-in with the breath. Hold the breath for >> few seconds to absorb this mahaprana that is sparkling like immense glow >> of >> the rising sun… Now exhale the breath at the same pace with a firm belief >> that the impurities and vile assimilation from inside are being expelled >> forever. Hold the breath out for few seconds with a feeling that the >> mahaprana is spreading out in the infinity after destroying the vices and >> sins inside. Repeat this cycle three times. The duration of holding the >> breath is normally maintained as half that of inhalation/ exhalation in >> each >> cycle…. >> >> The Mantras: >> Oan Bhah, Oan Bhuvah, Oan Swah, Oan Mahah, Oan Janah, Oan Tapah, Oan >> Satyan >> | >> Oan Tatsaviturvarenyan Bhargo Devasya Dhimahi Dhiyo Yonah Pracodayat || >> Oan Apo Jyotih Rasoamratan Brahn Bhur Bhuvah Swah Oan ||" >> >> Reference : >> http://gayatri.awgp.org/SimpleandEffectivedailypracticeofGayatri/ >> >> As regards Vuzoo or Namaaz that is also a way of living and is a choice >> left >> to the individual. My contention is that we have not made any attempts to >> understand our own heritage, culture, tradition and scriptures and I would >> prefer to try understand what we already have and then try attempting >> others. Our very own Vedas is vast and has enough scientific material, >> which >> has been best utilised by the germans. >> >> >> Regards, >> V Murali >> On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 6:11 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > >wrote: >> >> > Dear Murali >> > >> > Thank you for the quoting from the Website. I noticed though that these >> are >> > not the words of Satya Sai Baba. His words are reproduced in quotes. >> > >> > As far as I am aware, for a Mantra to be a Pranayamic exercise, the >> > recitation of words would have to be matched with specified timings, >> > intensity (and source of breath) linked with Inhalation, Retention and >> > Exhalation (Puraka, Kumbhaka, Rechaka). >> > >> > As far as I am aware, there is no such regime for the Gayatri Mantra. >> > >> > You did not comment on my suggestion. Let me repeat it: >> > >> > """""""" While on this topic, why not introduce Vuzoo and Namaaz too >> into >> > your proposed regime? >> > >> > Vuzoo is an excellent habit for maintaining basic cleanliness >> and >> > Namaaz entails a set of postures in which (fascinatingly) you can see a >> > digest of various Yogic Aasanas."""""" >> > >> > Kshmendra >> > >> > >> > >> > --- On *Sun, 8/2/09, Murali V * wrote: >> > >> > >> > From: Murali V >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS >> > To: "Kshmendra Kaul" >> > Cc: "sarai list" >> > Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 5:20 PM >> > >> > >> > Dear Kshmedra, >> > "Touted" I dont need to as I am not marketing it or its concept. I just >> > shared what I have come to understand of it. >> > "Exercise of chanting Gayatri is essentially Pranayama, hence breathing >> is >> > regulated, chanellised and perfected." This is a quote from " This a >> quote >> > from "http://www.saibabaforbeginners.com/gayatri.html" >> > Thanks and Regards, >> > V Murali >> > >> > On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 3:22 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > >> > > wrote: >> > >> >> Dear Murali >> >> >> >> This is the first time I have heard Gayatri Mantra being touted as a >> >> 'breathing exercise'. Could you please elaborate on that? >> >> >> >> If you were to speak about the benefits of Pranayamic exercises >> >> (especially Ujjayi Pranayam), that would make some sense. But Gayatri >> Mantra >> >> as a 'breathing exercise'???? >> >> >> >> While on this topic, why not introduce Vuzoo and Namaaz too into your >> >> proposed regime? >> >> >> >> Vuzoo is an excellent habit for maintaining basic cleanliness and >> Namaaz >> >> entails a set of postures in which (fascinatingly) you can see a digest >> of >> >> various Yogic Aasanas. >> >> >> >> Kshmendra >> >> >> >> --- On *Sat, 8/1/09, Murali V > http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=murali.chalam at gmail.com> >> >> >* wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> From: Murali V > http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=murali.chalam at gmail.com>> >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS >> >> To: "Pheeta Ram" > http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pheeta.ram at gmail.com> >> >> > >> >> Cc: "sarai list" > http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=reader-list at sarai.net> >> >> > >> >> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 12:00 PM >> >> >> >> Dear Anupam, >> >> Dear Anupam, >> >> >> >> The issue of uniformity has still not been addressed. A burkha clad >> girl >> >> in >> >> a school cannot be questioned and if done, the media and the entire >> >> pseudo-seculars go all out to call it hindu fanaticism. >> >> >> >> Atma or the soul, life after death and re-birth are concepts which is >> >> their >> >> in most faiths. Moreover the Gaytri mantra is also a breathing exercise >> as >> >> the stanzas repeated in its correct form has set timings to control >> >> breath. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> V Murali >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Aug 3 13:13:23 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 08:43:23 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] On Delhi In-Reply-To: <4A7416D8.9070501@ranadasgupta.com> References: <4A6FFCEF.90205@ranadasgupta.com> <3ef603b70907290338n186e9077iae894bf724fed429@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40907290441t50fcf5aan650d4f5f76494293@mail.gmail.com> <4A7194A8.70200@ranadasgupta.com> <65be9bf40907300837o7c532fadx92608edbc143d2a2@mail.gmail.com> <4A7416D8.9070501@ranadasgupta.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40908030043r5a9ec7e2tba7dabc5b1107a7f@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rana and Dear All, Please forgive me for not making myself clear. The point is perhaps, not just limited to real estate, or necessarily to your text alone but perhaps my reference was to a broader issue - Which perhaps relates to creation of narratives about city like Delhi. The point being why in the last many decades we, the reader are prompted to approach the idea of Delhi through what seem like a ready made stock of characters and stock notions? Land being just one of them. Let me take this opportunity to expand my thoughts concerning representation of the idea of Delhi. Let me also suggest that there is of course nothing wrong in re-using previously used, previously crafted stock of characters or notions, that is perhaps indicative of smart thinking, but I wonder if there can be novel ways of describing a city, other than by simply deploying seemingly typecast notions and figures like- clogged roads, the figure of L'enfant terrible, DDA/ Property Dealer nexus, Nouveau riche and the figure of a cynical journalist etc There seems to be no dearth of literature on Delhi in the public domain which does not seem to have previously relied on these typification. I wish to re-visit these types, more so, in order to think and reflect as to why is it that there seems to be rather limited range of descriptions of the Capital city? I am sure there are more than 'n' number of ways to read the idea of Delhi? Why, for instance, the notion of insight or a suggestion towards an uncanny element which must be a normative attribute of any form of writing; seems to be conspicuous by its absence from recent literature on cities like Delhi? Although I do not know whether this should be normatively included in any and every form of writing on big cities. For the time being, though, let's leave these questions aside and let us re-visit some of the above mentioned notions, one by one, to ascertain for ourselves, how different people, belonging to different eras which were seemingly unconnected through time and space have attempted to create a memory for us, towards an idea of Delhi. 1. Clogged Roads- 1.i . A popular travelogue from Lonely Planet series describes the Roads of Delhi as thus- In a densely populated city such as Delhi, even road space is at a premium, not just for traffic but also for everything else....[which is ] shared by bicycles, cycle rickshaws, scooters, motor cycles, auto rickshaws, carts drawn by horses, bullocks, or the odd, camels, cars, taxis, vans, trucks, buses, and an occasional elephant. [ Horton, P, Plunkett, R and Finlay, H. 2002 Lonely Planet. Getting around- Metro p. 81] 1.ii. When Mark Tully writes, No full stops in India, he describes the roads of Delhi in 1991, as thus- ...the streets of Delhi are nevertheless clogged up Japanese designed cars and scooters...for the less affluent there are only decrepit, outdated and fuel inefficient buses quite in capable of providing an efficient service even if the roads were cleared of them. [as cited in Waugh,D 2000. Geography an Integrated Approach p.619] 1.iii. While writing Twilight In Delhi in 1940, Ahmed Ali, tells the story of Mir Nihal a merchant of Delhi who is grappling with loss of power post 1857 seige of the city by the British. Ahmed Ali decides to use the following words, to describe an event thus giving us a view how these Delhi roads could have appeared.- The procession passed, one long unending line of generals, and the governors and the tommies, and the native chiefs and their retinues, and soldiery like a slow unending line of ants. [Ali, A. 1994. Twilight in Delhi. p 105] 2. The figure of L'enfant terrible. aka Bade baap ki bigri hui aulaad. 2.i. Sanjeev Nanda appears to one, like a postmetropolis version of Duryodhana. Duryodhana a mythical character whose pride was instrumental in the creation of Inderprastha (Delhi ) in the first place. He was also the one, by the way, who snatched the city from its 'rightful' owners. Thus turning the then Delhi into a lawless city. Duryodhana's father was blind to his follies and in the end had to pay a price for this neglect. Like Inderprastha is often described as that which was imagined by an Asur architect called Maya, so does subsequent descriptions of the city seems to rely on prevalence of surreal structures. But we deviate here...therefore we come back to this character of Bade baap ki bigri hui aulaad aka Baba logs aka L'enfant terrible! Apart from Duryodhana, I can think of Aurangzeb, we may call him as an erstwhile inhabitant of the city, who also had scant regard for the rules and regulations of the day and was rather interested in doing what he thought 'fit' . In an urban context what he did was no different from what people in power do now to Delhi which is to demolish, erase and subsequently construct. Maybe if some future historian were to write a text on the history of urban Delhi then we may have more material to quote from. However it does not comes as a surprise that when Mohsin Hamid, for instance, writes about Lahore in his Moth Smoke, he chooses the name, Aurangzeb aka Ozi to represent decadence. Ozi by the way, was also involved in a hit and run accident in 1998 in Lahore, like Nanda in 1999 in Delhi, and he escapes law by coercing someone less fortunate than him to take the blame, like Nanda through his family tries to influence the key witness. 2.ii. Then in post Independence India we had Suresh Kumar. SK, as we all know, was the son of the Defense Minister of India. Although SK was not exactly killing people but yes, like Nanda, he appears as a public hazard in the eyes of quite a few. I, of course refer to the infamous sex scandal which came to fore when Surya Magazine broke the story. Journalist Rajinder Puri, who in 1978, was the then campaign in charge of Janta Party had this to write about the incident- -A defense ministers son, in a defense dealers car, related papers in the backseat of the car and the car was used for a romantic rendezvous - was it right that the son of the defense minister should be so careless about affairs which could imperil the nations security ? That set me off !- [ http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/specials/proj_tabloid/puri.shtml ] 2.iii And who can forget Sanjay Dutt aka Sanju Baba but he belongs to Bombay doesn't he, so what!! for Delhi did we not have Sanjay Gandhi aka Sanjay Baba to haunt our collective imagination. In what Harsh Sethi cogently describes as an anthropology of power, Raj Thapar has this to write about Sanjay Baba in All These Years- -Sanjay, the son, was so deep in the game of governance, if he wielded so much power over his mother, the story was far more terrifying that we had ever thought. Indira had over the last three years, given in to him in small ways, we had thought. [ Thapar, R. 1991. All These Years: a memoir. p. 399 ] There's also a section in the book where Raj Thapar writes about a small but significant incident which leads Nehru to ask Indira about her son's involvement in alleged incidents of car lifting from the diplomatic enclave which comes under the purview of Lodhi road police station. During his day, as we all know that Sanjay was deeply passionate about a range of interests- like borrowing farm lands from friends from Gurgaon to play spanner-spanner-in-the-works , or fly planes at fantastically low levels so that, being the dutiful husband he was, he could assist his wife by drying all the clothes hung in the backyard. And Yes, when he was free during evenings, he would easily drop by Trukman Gate in his Ford Jeep to evangelize about vasectomy to the illiterate hordes of Islam. And now! during the elections, we had to sit patiently when HIS son, blessed be his soul, Varun, started to evangelize on the fine art of plucking hands out of illiterate hordes of Islam if they were to behave improperly. It seems, In Delhi, every now and then, we pay homage to a myth, which not the myth of Rama but that of Duryodhana. To keep his memory alive a son has to be sacrificed in the public consciousness. His fall has to become a fable. It escapes me that what's so transformative or alluring or symbolic about this character that it needs to be mentioned, analyzed and written about again and again, every time one has to write about Delhi? 3. DDA/ Property Dealer nexus. 3.i. Who can forget Dibakar Banerjee's excellent film on urban transformations around Delhi called- Khosla ka Ghosla, which was released in 2006? The film was about Delhi, about the change in housing sector, about the promise of a new wealth and the desire to fulfill a long cherished dream of possessing land, of owning and building a house. And the film was a story of lives of all those characters which were caught in this conundrum. Did the character of Kishan Khorana, not signify- the corruption, the impropriety, the obscene wealth, the (ab)use of power, the way is which these lands are coerced from owners? Did the character Asif Iqbal not point towards the methods or processes which are employed to acquire legitimacy of land? [ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0466460/plotsummary ] But was it any new or was it an old story excellently told? 3.ii. Or for that matter one could think of an eminently forgettable cinematic text like Jugaad, which was directed by Anand Kumar and released in 2009. The film story revolves around municipal corporation of Delhi's inspired 'sealing drive' and how an advertising agency owner tries to find his way through a maze of characters involving property dealers, corrupt MCD officials, to reclaim the land where his agency one stood. [ http://www.imdb.com/news/ni0677187/ ] 3.iii. At one level real estate for housing is a simple game. It relates to the stock. Demand versus Supply. If there more demand and less supply. There's bound to be speculation. Various people will enter the speculative market hoping to make a quick buck. Consider this piece on Delhi's housing situation 25 years ago. Reading an essay written by Arun Kumar in EPW in 1982 on the eve of Asian Games in Delhi and then juxtaposing it stuff written on contemporary Delhi one is left with a feeling as if nothing much happened in all these years. That the city has not evolved. One wonders if that is the case? - Delhi along with other urban centers of the country have been experiencing a phenomenal boon in real estate prices since 1977. In the capital city the increase has been particularly steep. notwithstanding the existence of DDA, an official agency charged with the planned development of the Union Territory- Later in the essay Arun Kumar adds, DDA seems to be bending its rules to favor builders... in fact it is believed, that most conglomerates of brokers, builders and financiers in Delhi are overextended and are unable to make full payments to the DDA for the purchase made in previous years. [ Kumar, A. 1982. Economic and Political Weekly. Real Estate as Business. p 1984 ] 4. Nouveau riche 4.i. For someone like, Sumanta Banerjee Nouveau riches of India about SIX years ago, in 2003 stood for, a 'small transparent cocoon'. Commenting on the then state of affairs, she says, 'that small transparent cocoon of the Indian Big Rich is bursting at the seams, with Ferrari's and BMW's, farm houses and malls, exclusive townships and wine picnics, mega bashes and show biz weddings. It's an incestuous world of a symbiotic relationship, between demands for luxury goods, and five star privileges, by a minuscule portion of India, and their supply by the handful of rich manufacturers and producers who are everlastingly creating newer and newer demands. [ Banerjee, S. 2003. Economic and Political Weekly. Better 'Nouveau' than Never. p 5145-5146 ] 4.ii Charles W Pratt. reviewing a Naipaul's book in The Rotarian in 1991 almost EGIHTEEN years ago has this to offer- -Because of industrialization, and the green revolution in rural areas, a new class of Nouveau riche persons are emerging, and these persons are exposed to the first time to university education, comfortable urban life, stylish living, and western influences- materialistic comforts...At the moment things are chaotic here. [ Pratt,C.W. Mar 1991. The Rotarian. Vol. 158. No. 3. p.4 ] 4.iii. An article contributed by Local Self Government Institute Bombay describes the 'new' recipients of redistribution wealth in 1978- The nouveau riche in the country are generally exhibitionists. One can see them in the posh residential colonies of New Delhi, Bombay, Madras, Calcutta [ Quarterly journal of the Local Self-Government Institute (Bombay).‎ - Page 20 by Local Self-Government Institute (Bombay), All-India Institute of Local Self-Government - Political Science - 1978 ] 5. The figure of a cynical journalist. 5.i In 1983 -Jaane Bhi Do Yaroon- was released, where the trope a cynical journalist was used both in an ironical manner by the presence of two cynically naive photo-journalists who wanted to expose an instance of builder/politician nexus related to an urban development project and their calculative editor who makes a bargain in the end with the very builders/politicians who she was supposed to expose. But of course this was related to Bombay and not Delhi. 5.ii Then in 1986, just three years later, a film called, New Delhi Times was released which had Shashi Kapoor playing the character of an oxymoronically cynical yet hopeful journalist called, Vikas Pande. In New Delhi Times, Vikas's job was to hold the proverbial mirror to a rapidly degrading Delhi political and social elite. He is disillusioned in the end because the power elite do little to back him up. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The point being what do these stock descriptions mean to us? What is this idea of a city that we are asked to conjure or to interpret? Why does it appear as if we are persuaded to consume this dominant notion about the city? What makes extremely perceptive professional writers, repeat stock notions about Delhi decade after decade after decade by re-packaging perhaps a torpidity of imagination as a novelty'? Does writing about Delhi in a particular manner by using readily available - types- not reduce, a remarkable city to, 'a predictable city'? Warm regards Taha From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 13:13:38 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 13:13:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?Inviting_Papers_for_National_Conference_o?= =?utf-8?q?n_=E2=80=98Emerging_health_care_models=3A_Engaging_the_p?= =?utf-8?q?rivate_health_sector=E2=80=99_on_25-26_Sept=2C_Bombay_?= =?utf-8?q?=28=28tag=3A_Miscellaneous=29=29?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: CEHAT is inviting papers for a national conference on ‘Emerging health care models: Engaging the private health sector’ to be held on the 25 and 26 of September 2009, in Mumbai. Details here: http://psychologynews.posterous.com/inviting-papers-for-national-conference-on-em From kmvenuannur at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 13:52:45 2009 From: kmvenuannur at gmail.com (Venugopalan K M) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 13:52:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The 64th Anniversary Of USA Terrorism Enlightened By The Wisdom of Nonviolence By Eileen Fleming (fwd from Countercurrents.org) Message-ID: <1f9180970908030122m1b1912dq3318dd0d70f331f5@mail.gmail.com> The 64th Anniversary Of USA Terrorism Enlightened By The Wisdom of Nonviolence By Eileen Fleming 02 August, 2009 Countercurrents.org This August 6th and 9th mark the 64th anniversary of the most brutal acts of terrorism upon innocent people; America's atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. On Armistice Day, 1948 General Omar Nelson Bradley warned, "We live in a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants, in a world that has achieved brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience. We have solved the mystery of the atom and forgotten the lessons of the Sermon on The Mount. We know more about war than we know about peace, more about dying than we know about living." In 1995, from Ashkelon Prison, Mordechai Vanunu noted: "A radioactive cloud consumed rubbed out Hiroshima...A live nuclear test sentenced you. A nuclear laboratory…children women trees animals in and under a nuclear mushroom…burning… burned…flattened to ground radioactive ash-Hiroshima...Nuclear weapons gamblers win against you…Hollywood doesn't know you - you are not a Jewish Holocaust." [1] A little history: At 2:45 AM, on August 6, 1945, an American B-29 bomber flew north from Tinian Island toward Japan. Three and a half hours later, the Enola Gay dropped "Little Boy" an 8,900-pound atomic weapon upon civilians in Hiroshima and leveled almost 90% of the city. On August 9, "Fat Man" was dropped on Nagasaki, and one third of that city was destroyed. "Little Boy" was fuelled by highly enriched uranium-235 and generated a destructive force of about 15 kilotons—the equivalent of 15,000 tons of TNT. "Fat Man" consisted of a plutonium core surrounded by high explosives wired to explode simultaneously and yielded a 22 kiloton explosion. As a child, I could not comprehend how my country could cold bloodedly target and murder Japanese citizens in order to 'save' American lives, which was the lame response I always received from every adult I questioned as to why after what we did to Hiroshima did we do it again to Nagasaki? If THAT DAY, we call 9/11 taught us anything, it should be that America's nuclear arsenal cannot defeat 'terrorism' or provide security from the actions of a few violent mad men who target and murder innocent ones. American money is imprinted with "IN GOD WE TRUST" but reality is we have become a nation of hypocrites, for by our foreign policy we expose that we live by the sword. America has a nuclear arsenal of over 10,000 weapons and nearly 2,000 remain on hair-trigger alert ever since the end of the Cold War. An estimated 150 – 240 tactical nuclear weapons remain based in 5 NATO countries and the United States is the only country with nuclear weapons deployed on foreign soil. American taxpayers provide over $54 billion annually to maintain WMD's, which is but a drop in the bucket of the overall U.S. military spending. The U.S. is also a co-conspirator in international nuclear apartheid and major collaborator in Israel's INEFFECTIVE policy of nuclear ambiguity. In April 2004, and just three days after Vanunu was released from 18 years in jail for providing the photographic proof and telling the truth about Israel's clandestine seven story underground WMD Program in the Negev, Uri Avnery wrote: "Everybody understands that he has no more secrets. What can a technician know after 18 years in jail, during which technology has advanced with giant steps? "But gradually it becomes clear what the security establishment is really afraid of. Vanunu is in a position to expose the close partnership with the United States in the development of Israel's nuclear armaments. "This worries Washington so much, that the man responsible in the State Department for 'arms control', Under-Secretary John Bolton, has come to Israel in person for the occasion. Vanunu, it appears, can cause severe damage to the mighty super-power. "The Americans, it seems, are very worried. The Israeli security services have to dance to their tune. The world must be prevented by all available means from hearing, from the lips of a credible witness, that the Americans are full partners in Israel's nuclear arms program, while pretending to be the world's sheriff for the prevention of nuclear proliferation."[2] On July 29, 2009, Archbishop Edwin F. O’Brien of Baltimore gave a keynote talk at the first Deterrence Symposium, hosted by U.S. Strategic Command at Offutt Air Force Base in Nebraska. He said, "Our world and its leaders must stay focused on the destination of a nuclear-weapons-free world and on the concrete steps that lead there…[and] that deterrence, in the words of the U.S. bishops, is not 'a long-term basis for peace' …the spread of nuclear weapons and technology to other nations, and the threat of nuclear terrorism, which cannot be deterred with nuclear weapons, point to the need to move beyond nuclear deterrence as rapidly as possible…Religious leaders, prominent officials, and other people of goodwill who support a nuclear-weapons-free world are not naïve about the task ahead. They know the path will be difficult and will require determined political leadership, strong public support, and the dedicated skills of many capable leaders and technical experts. But difficult is not impossible.” [3] The Archbishop outlined several concrete steps toward total nuclear disarmament supported by the Catholic Church, including the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty, negotiations on a Fissile Material Cut-Off Treaty, and the revision of military doctrines of nuclear weapon states to “renounce the first use of nuclear weapons” and “declare they will not be used against non-nuclear threats.”[Ibid] In Hiroshima on May 2008, Nobel Peace Prize Laureate, Mairead Maguire said: "We live in an insecure, uncertain world; it is also a time of opportunity. It is a time to put aside many of the old ways and with creativity and imagination, develop new thinking, ideas, institutions, etc. Young people and women will help this process; they know that Nuclear weapons belong to the cold war thinking, and can never be used. To do so, would be immoral, illogical and destroy the Environment. "They know our real problems, are: Poverty, Environment, unethical globalization, abuse of Human Rights and International Laws, gender inequality, ethnical/political conflict, State and paramilitary acts of terror…They know that spending trillions on weapons that can never be used, while each day over 30,000 children die of preventable disease, is immoral and unacceptable. "We are all aware that we are living in an increasing Culture of violence, and if we are to survive we need to build a Culture of Non-violence. Choosing not to kill another human being is the greatest contribution each of us can make to peace. This is not a hard choice when through prayer, meditation, morality, or logic, we come to realize that our lives are sacred as is the life of all our brothers and sisters, and there are always alternatives to violence which work. Human beings are evolving and there is a new consciousness that we must choose non-violence and build strong relationships and community." [4] On May 17, 2009, Mairead prevailed on seventeen Nobel laureates to sign a letter called the Hiroshima-Nagasaki Declaration. Her friend, author and Jesuit priest John Dear wrote of that day: "Released in Hiroshima, it calls upon world leaders, and all people, to eliminate nuclear weapons. And it warns that unless humanity fails in that endeavor, 'the horrors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki' will be repeated. Such weapons, [Mairead] says, belong to the tragic past. They belong to a time when the world lacked the wisdom to realize that each culture needs the other to survive. "Governments which still hold such weapons violate the prohibition of war in the UN charter. But more than that, she says, they’re operating anachronistically. They’re out of touch with the insights of the times. Nowadays our enemies aren’t across the border. The enemies of humanity today are poverty, environmental destruction, militarism, and war. "Our security nowadays lies in nonviolence and love. She insists that we all need to heed the wisdom of nonviolence and apply it institutionally, internationally, globally and concluded in The Vision of Peace, 'Everyone of us has a role to play in the creation of a new culture of nonviolence.'" [5] 2009 is the final year in the United Nations Decade of Creating a Culture of Nonviolence for All the Children of the World. America is on the record in the UN as abstaining from voting because to support such an initiative would make it "too hard for us to go to war." Many Americans live under the delusion that the USA is a Christian nation. If that were true, we would lead the way in nuclear disarmament and abolish war. John Dear also wrote: "Contrary to what the Pentagon tells us, that our God is not a god of war, but the God of peace; not a god of injustice, but the God of justice; not a god of vengeance and retaliation, but the God of compassion and mercy; not a god of violence, but the God of non-violence; not a god of death, but the living God of life. "[And then] we discover a new image of God. As we begin to imagine the peace and non-violence of God; we learn to worship the God of peace and non-violence; and in the process, become people of peace and non-violence. "The one thing we can say for sure about Jesus is that he practiced active, public, creative non-violence. He called us to love our neighbors; to show compassion toward everyone; to seek justice for the poor; to forgive everyone; to put down the sword; to take up the cross in the struggle for justice and peace; to lay down our lives, to risk our lives if necessary, in love for all humanity, and most of all, to love our enemies. His last words to the community, to the church, to us, as the soldiers dragged him away, could not be clearer or more to the point: "Put down the sword." "That's it. We are not allowed to kill. That's why they run away; they realize he is serious about non-violence…Jesus dies on the cross saying, "The violence stops here in my body, which is given for you. You are forgiven, but from now on, you are not allowed to kill: "Violence doesn't work. War doesn't work. Violence in response to violence always leads to further violence. Those who live by the sword will die by the sword. Those who live by the bomb, the gun, the nuclear weapon, will die by bombs, guns and nuclear weapons. You reap what you sow. The means are the ends. What goes around comes around. War can not stop terrorism because war is terrorism. War only sows the seeds for future wars. "Underneath this culture of war and injustice is a sophisticated spirituality of violence, a spirituality of war, a spirituality of empire, a spirituality of injustice that has nothing to do with the living God or the Gospel of Jesus. [Ibid] Jesus is best known as The Prince of Peace and when he told Nicodemus, that you must be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven, he was not talking about an emotional high, but a TRANSFORMATION of heart and mind to wake up and see The Divine in ALL people and all of creation. Every August 6th in the Eastern Orthodox, Catholic, and Anglican churches, there is a celebration of the Feast of the Transfiguration of Jesus, an event reported in the synoptic gospels in which Jesus became radiant having undergone a metamorphosis; a transformation. In 2008, at the National Press Club, Rev. Dr. John Chryssavgis, Theological Advisor to the Ecumenical Patriarch on Environmental Issues, Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America addressed President Bush's agenda known as COMPLEX TRANSFORMATION: "The question is not how much more sophisticated our plants and weapons can become, but how serious we are as a nation to lead the world with an alternative vision which interprets power differently and promotes peaceful coexistence globally. "Complex Transformation is the Bush administration proposed plan to restructure the nation's nuclear weapons infrastructure. The administration's goal is to consolidate existing nuclear facilities while increasing the capacity to produce material for new nuclear weapons. "According to a report jointly released by the Energy Department (DOE) on January 10, 2008, the administration seeks an annual production capacity of 80 plutonium pits (read: triggers for new nuclear bombs) as a result of the transformation. "The main justification for the program is the perceived need for a more adaptable and responsive nuclear infrastructure to react to unnamed future threats."[6] The Wisdom of Nonviolence "The God of peace is never glorified by human violence… The radical truth of reality is that we are all one." –Thomas Merton Gandhi's non-violence was a political tactic that evolved from the inner realization of spiritual unity within himself. Gandhi studied all the world's religions and after attending many churches, he remarked that Christianity was a great religion and all Christians should "TRY IT!" The problem is not with Christianity, but that too few who claim to be have taken The Sermon on The Mount as their manifesto and live lives that express that God is Love and God Loves All. "Love is not the starving of whole populations. Love is not the bombardment of open cities. Love is not killing......Our manifesto is the Sermon on the Mount, which means that we will try to be peacemakers." -Dorothy Day "The wisdom of non-violence teaches that war is not the way to follow Jesus. War is not the will of God. War is never justified. War is never blessed by God. War is not endorsed by any religion. War is the very definition of mortal sin. War is demonic, evil, anti-human, anti-life, anti-God, and anti-Christ." [7] "In all of earth’s sixty-five-million-year history, we are living in the most dangerous of times. The fact that a bomb was dropped on Hiroshima and two hundred thousand lives were vaporized within twenty minutes has not prevented man from dreaming up more ways to fill space with weapons of mass destruction. We were not created for militarism, but to turn our swords into plowshares. We have arrived here today by no accident. We have been summoned by the universe to claim the highest common ground. As the Dali Lama said, the radicalism of our age is to be compassionate human beings. We have been called to bring love and compassion back into the equation and assist others to connect with the deepest parts of themselves. Now is the time to realize, as never before, that when any of us suffer, we all suffer. All life is interconnected, interdependent, and greatly loved by the creator, the sustainer of the universe. We are called by love, for love, and to love.”- Franciscan Fr. Louis Vitale, July 20, 2005, Berkeley, California at TIKKUN’s first annual conference for spiritual progressives. [8] >From Ashkelon prison in 1987, Mordechai Vanunu asked: "Any country, which manufactures and stocks nuclear weapons, is first of all endangering its own citizens. This is why the citizens must confront their government and warn it that it has no right to expose them to this danger. Because, in effect, the citizens are being held hostage by their own government, just as if they have been hijacked and deprived of their freedom and threatened…when governments develop nuclear weapons without the consent of their citizens - and this is true in most cases - they are violating the basic rights of their citizens, the basic right not to live under constant threat of annihilation…Is any government qualified and authorized to produce such weapons?" On April 5, 2009, President Obama stood on the world stage amongst thousands of flag-waving Czechs and spoke of good humor, home town Chicago, the will of the people over tanks and guns, old conflicts, revolution, moral leadership as the most powerful weapon, iron curtains that fell and the state of 21st century nuclear weapons: "We are here today because enough people ignored the voices who told them that the world could not change. We're here today because of the courage of those who stood up and took risks to say that freedom is a right for all people, no matter what side of a wall they live on, and no matter what they look like. We are here today because the simple and principled pursuit of liberty and opportunity shamed those who relied on the power of tanks and arms to put down the will of a people. "Some argue that the spread of these weapons cannot be stopped, cannot be checked -– that we are destined to live in a world where more nations and more people possess the ultimate tools of destruction. Such fatalism is a deadly adversary, for if we believe that the spread of nuclear weapons is inevitable, then in some way we are admitting to ourselves that the use of nuclear weapons is inevitable. "As the only nuclear power to have used a nuclear weapon, the United States has a moral responsibility to act…It will take patience and persistence. But now we, too, must ignore the voices who tell us that the world cannot change. We have to insist, "Yes, we can." "There is violence and injustice in our world that must be confronted. We must confront it by standing together as free nations, as free people. I know that a call to arms can stir the souls of men and women more than a call to lay them down. But that is why the voices for peace and progress must be raised together. "Let us honor our past by reaching for a better future. Let us bridge our divisions, build upon our hopes, and accept our responsibility to leave this world more prosperous and more peaceful than we found it. Together we can do it. "Words must mean something [and] violence and injustice must be confronted by standing together as free nations, as free people…[and] Human destiny will be what we make of it."[9] To this day, the USA and Israel claim to be peace seekers and democracies. "Israel is a not a democracy but is an Ethnocracy, meaning a country run and controlled by a national group with some democratic elements but set up with Jews in control and structured to keep them in control.”-Jeff Halper, American Israeli, Founder and Coordinator of ICAHD/Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions and a Noble Peace Prize Nominee for 2006. To this day Vanunu remains an open air prisoner captive in occupied east Jerusalem denied the right to leave the Jewish State. What Vanunu's Freedom of Speech trial exposed since it began on January 25, 2006 is that the Israeli SECURITY System controls the Israeli Ministry of Justice. [Learn more: Vanunu Archives @ WeAreWideAwake.org] To this day, Tel Aviv persists to attempt to deflect its egregious transgressions of international law and human rights abuses aided and abetted by well funded publicity campaigns, an AIPAC beholden Congress and an American media that has failed at its commission to seek and report all sides of a story when in comes to the now 42 years of military occupation of Palestine. In April 1999, thirty-six members of the House of Representatives signed a letter calling for Vanunu's release from prison because they believed "we have a duty to stand up for men and women like Mordechai Vanunu who dare to articulate a brighter vision for humanity." President Clinton responded with a public statement expressing concern for Vanunu and the need for Israel and other non-parties to the Non-Proliferation Treaty to adhere to it and accept IAEA safeguards. However, ever since the silence had been deafening, until hope resurrected in Prague: "Words must mean something [and] violence and injustice must be confronted by standing together as free nations, as free people…Human destiny will be what we make of it."-President Obama "You cannot talk like sane men around a peace table while the atomic bomb itself is ticking beneath it. Do not treat the atomic bomb as a weapon of offense; do not treat it as an instrument of the police. Treat the bomb for what it is: the visible insanity of a civilization that has ceased...to obey the laws of life."- Lewis Mumford, 1946 "Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends...I believe that as soon as people want peace in the world they can have it. The only trouble is they are not aware they can get it…You're just left with yourself all the time, whatever you do anyway. You've got to get down to your own God in your own temple. It's all down to you, mate...All we are saying is give peace a chance...All you need is love...Imagine all the people living life in peace. You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope someday you'll join us, and the world will be as one...Reality leaves a lot to the imagination."-John Lennon "If you are not apart of the solution; you are apart of the problem."-Eldridge Cleaver Learn more and please and thanks for doing something: http://www.paxchristiusa.org/newsletters/ October2008NewsletterWeb.pdf http://www.wearewideawake.org/index.php? option=com_content&task=view&id=660&Itemid=175 1. http://vanunu.com/poems/mvpoemhiroshima.html 2. http://www.fromoccupiedpalestine.org /taxonomy/term/226 3. www.usccb.org/sdwp/international/n. The full text of Archbishop O’Brien’s talk, “Nuclear Weapons and Moral Questions: The Path to Zero,” uclearzero.shtml. 4. http://peacepeople.com 5. http://www.fatherjohndear.org/articles /Nobel_Laureates.html 6. http://www.faithfulsecurity.org/ html/complex_transformation.html 7. http://www.fatherjohndear.org/speeches /thomas_merton_wisdom.htm 8. eileen fleming, KEEP HOPE ALIVE, page 156 9. http://wearewideawake.org/index.php?option=com_ content&task=view&id=1247&Itemid=219 Eileen Fleming, A Feature Correspondent for Arabisto.com and Founder of WeAreWideAwake.org Author of "Keep Hope Alive" and "Memoirs of a Nice Irish American 'Girl's' Life in Occupied Territory"Producer "30 Minutes with Vanunu" and "13 Minutes with Vanunu" -- http://venukm.blogspot.com http://www.shelfari.com/kmvenuannur http://kmvenuannur.livejournal.com From pheeta.ram at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 14:23:00 2009 From: pheeta.ram at gmail.com (Pheeta Ram) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 14:23:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? In-Reply-To: References: <1249203692.S.13996.56124.f6mail-145-155.rediffmail.com.1249206015.56628@webmail.rediffmail.com> <5bedab660908020627r243c64c0m70d072f4fdc033b9@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908020643u565dbee9v5708e4faefb21f76@mail.gmail.com> <5bedab660908020835v6af19aa8oaec0b28c2ffb2d2d@mail.gmail.com> <5bedab660908022340l55ac1fbasfcecbeb453d28572@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5bedab660908030153n6b5566ecpda23a023f7e6a96@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh, "But faith is something which makes me do what i like." That is, "Faith makes me free." Is that really so?Have you ever wondered as to why even in our dreams, which according to psychoanalysis is the realm of the free, where my repressed wishes/desires find fulfilment to my satisfaction, we still are not able to surpass certain boundaries, certain norms, certain belief systems? They don't loosen their grip over us even in the realms of our dreams. Freedom granted by faith is not free. Moreover, i would agree with you if you interject and say: freedom doesn't mean normlessness. The Chambers Dictionary describes the word faith as follows: *faith, *n trust or confidence; belief in the statement of another person; *belief in the truth of revealed religion;* *confidence and trust in God; the living reception of religious belief, esp the religion one considers true*; fidelity to promises; honesty; word or honour pledged; faithfulness... Just have a look at the mixed baggage. Whither boudaries? I can live by my own definitions of words but bodies of words are contentious sites where wars over meanings are fought. The organism of language evolves thus. A dictionary is just a praiseworthy but terminally futile attempt at containing this amoebic organism. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Yes, they do. But faith is something which makes me do what I like. That > may not be the case with organized religion. For example, most of the time I > go to religious places (places of religious importance), what I like is not > so much worshipping the deities there (which I can of course at my home any > way), but seeing the devotion of others, the architecture specialities (if > any), and the surroundings and the environment they create for that > devotion, in terms of the kind of people visiting and also the way the place > is kept. > > Organized religion will go hammer and tongs at me for thinking in this way. > But not faith. > > Regards > > Rakesh > From murali.chalam at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 14:34:32 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 14:34:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? In-Reply-To: <5bedab660908010249q183e35e8j4746f4f8659eedd0@mail.gmail.com> References: <5bedab660907311405v3c53908h68b0217e7f0d5c0e@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907312054r287b2090m6d4fb35c07ca6813@mail.gmail.com> <5bedab660907312230k2a662163t6c56d217adc770da@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870907312342g6c432bf2j1c975a78a8af9085@mail.gmail.com> <5bedab660908010249q183e35e8j4746f4f8659eedd0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908030204h56c97eefl620ed19cc36e64f2@mail.gmail.com> *sarve jana sukhino bhavanthu **Regards,* *V Murali* On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Pheeta Ram wrote: > Let's work for a better world dear Murali. We don't seem to have enough > time. > Let's rush. > > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Murali V wrote: > >> If some thing has made you laugh and feel happy, I am happy. That is my >> way of living. >> >> Regards, >> V Murali >> >> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 11:00 AM, Pheeta Ram wrote: >> >>> "You make me laugh Murali," says Jahanvi. There is a bit of childish >>> rashness and irreverant matter-of-factness ( though >>> totally misplaced) the way you make an offer. The options are not >>> available like some commodity in our nearest shop, or Mall >>> if you will. There are many such experiments that are going on all over >>> the world. People have also set up "gated communities" and profess to be >>> citizens of another world that belongs to another day. Can you suggest me a >>> list of communities in India itself that are experimenting the way i have >>> suggested? What i would venture to suggest to you "personally" is to find >>> out the reasons why such communities are still segregated and away from the >>> public knowledge. Are they really communities that profess no faith, and if >>> they do not, what is the nature of their faith in the first place. We are >>> fortunate enough that people in so large a number are gracing this >>> discussion forum; one rarely gets such dedicated readers who also spend time >>> responding to fanatical proposals (and run for alarm at the slightest >>> provocation). >>> >>> With faith and religion are attached many other issues that have already >>> been debated in hallowed intellectual circles but their conclusions have not >>> been able to percolate down to the masses like us. The problems are as much >>> psychological as they are cultural. Take for example today's kewl college >>> going brats. They wear Che Guevara T-shrits and claim to belonging to no >>> religion live and act like hippies of 70s though fall far short of that >>> because of reasons too obvious to merit a mention. Now one might ask is this >>> the kind of "thing" that i am proposing. Certainly NOT! These guys don't >>> even know who Che was, somebody would as well tell you that he was a Harlem >>> pop star of the 60s or 20s if you will or just a "pop star." Moreover, they >>> would shoot a nearest temple at the first instance, whether for the sake of >>> girls or to crack an entrance test. I was shocked to see many kewl guys >>> fitted in branded jeans chanting Hanuman Chalisa when i dragged myself out >>> of curiosity to a temple in Delhi. >>> >>> Things run deep under kewl T-shirts! >>> We need to understand many such paradoxical webs, not individually >>> but "communally" through such a forum. >>> Best >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Murali V wrote: >>> >>>> What you propose is already available in a faith called "Way of Living". >>>> One has to attempt this philosophy and things would be for the good. >>>> Murali V >>>> >>>> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 2:35 AM, Pheeta Ram wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear All, >>>>> I know this won't go down well with most of you but here it is: >>>>> Religions are the basic source of strife and as long as there will be >>>>> religions >>>>> (belief in this God and that) there will be such hostilities. By >>>>> professing >>>>> one religion >>>>> i simultaneously create an other being who, by inference, is either >>>>> follower >>>>> of some religion >>>>> or a pagan. The basic contradiction in all religions is that despite >>>>> their >>>>> moral-ethical discourse >>>>> regarding oneness of all humanity they are the principal segregators. >>>>> All >>>>> the saints who have >>>>> walked the earth deluded themselves with such fancies. >>>>> >>>>> Religion is not just a system of belief but also an economy. We depend >>>>> a lot >>>>> upon our religious capital >>>>> for our subsistance. A person who professes to be a member of certain >>>>> community (primarily religious) >>>>> also depends upon it as a kind of umbilical cord and draws sucour. >>>>> >>>>> By now earth has soaked so much blood because of religious strifes that >>>>> sometimes i wonder isn't it time >>>>> to abandon all religious badges and create a ethical moral code drawn >>>>> from >>>>> all the religions and start believing >>>>> in one community: that is Human. >>>>> >>>>> I think we need to believe in our brother next door and one walking on >>>>> the >>>>> street or the worker on a Metro site. >>>>> We need to believe that for the survival of humanity we need to believe >>>>> in >>>>> each other and not on some transcendental >>>>> agency. I wonder why we haven't learnt from our history. The primary >>>>> reason >>>>> why we have failed terribly in creating a >>>>> community of all human beings that walk the earth is because we are >>>>> afraid. >>>>> Afraid to believe in somebody who is in >>>>> front of us in flesh and blood. I remember a man sitting in Blue Line >>>>> who >>>>> was highly uncomfortable when a profusely sweating migrant labourer got >>>>> in >>>>> and found a seat, to his great relief, by his side. It is certain that >>>>> he >>>>> didn't know of the >>>>> religion of that worker but the stench of his sweat and his dirty >>>>> clothes >>>>> were enough for him to get up and keep standing >>>>> for the rest of his journey. I wonder when we have such intolerence for >>>>> a >>>>> 'fellow' human beings' honest sweat how would we >>>>> ever begin even thinking about such a Human community. The perils that >>>>> face >>>>> the earth now are reasons enough that we >>>>> start believing in each other and work for the future of humanity by >>>>> shunning all our sectarian tags. But strangely we are busy >>>>> inventing/refurbishing new messiah who would deliver us from the mess >>>>> that >>>>> we have ourselves created on this earth. >>>>> >>>>> I wonder what stops us from creating a new religion of Humanity. >>>>> >>>>> The advice that comes from scholarly circles regarding all this >>>>> religious >>>>> intolerance is : Tolerance! >>>>> That we need to tolerate each other. Tolerance is another form of >>>>> fascism or >>>>> nazism, what ever. I won't agree with substituting >>>>> the word toleracne with "respect" or "compassion". Why tolerate the >>>>> very >>>>> root of strife in the first place. >>>>> >>>>> And yet, sadly, things are not as simple as that. But a time comes >>>>> when we >>>>> have to call a spade a spade. >>>>> We have to shun God to love human beings. There is no other way. Just >>>>> visualize the situation: Two guys are standing in a big stadium in >>>>> front of >>>>> each other, just a metre apart but with their faces 'heaven'wards. Why >>>>> are >>>>> they afraid to see each other directly. >>>>> Why does the need arise to travel so many light years and then come to >>>>> ones >>>>> brother standing just a meter away. >>>>> >>>>> I know it is plain foolishness to ask somebody whose bread and butter >>>>> depends upon religion to shun it and enter the fold of Humanity where >>>>> people >>>>> believe in people and work with mutual responsibility. But we >>>>> need neo-believers who are foolish enough to >>>>> believe in such a possibility and are ready to work for it. It's a >>>>> long revolution but a possible one. >>>>> >>>>> But, the roadblocks are mighty hard to surpass. Take for instance my >>>>> case: >>>>> I have a primary school in my neighbourhood, a government one. And >>>>> every morning even before i have got up their assembly begins and the >>>>> chants >>>>> of sacred Hindu mantras begin. All this atma and parmatma stuff. Though >>>>> i >>>>> don't dispute the sense inherent in the prayer yet aren't we or rather >>>>> the >>>>> supposedly and proffessedly secular government entering into the >>>>> business >>>>> of 'mass conversion'. When i have all these religious prayers embedded >>>>> into >>>>> my consciousness right from my childhood can you imagine how much i >>>>> would >>>>> have to suffer to convert back to the religion of humanity if i convert >>>>> at >>>>> all and not turn into some religious fanatic. Less said of the schools >>>>> run >>>>> by one religion or the other the better. >>>>> >>>>> Though the proposal seems indecent yet i think there are madmen enough >>>>> to >>>>> believe in this long long revolution. >>>>> _________________________________________ >>>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 15:11:29 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:11:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] When was the first time you were told there is God? In-Reply-To: <5bedab660908030153n6b5566ecpda23a023f7e6a96@mail.gmail.com> References: <1249203692.S.13996.56124.f6mail-145-155.rediffmail.com.1249206015.56628@webmail.rediffmail.com> <5bedab660908020627r243c64c0m70d072f4fdc033b9@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908020643u565dbee9v5708e4faefb21f76@mail.gmail.com> <5bedab660908020835v6af19aa8oaec0b28c2ffb2d2d@mail.gmail.com> <5bedab660908022340l55ac1fbasfcecbeb453d28572@mail.gmail.com> <5bedab660908030153n6b5566ecpda23a023f7e6a96@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Pheeta When I say "faith allows me to do what I like", it doesn't necessarily make me free. Faith gives me freedom to do certain things, but there again one is bound by norms, as you yourself state. And when we say that people have a right to freedom (like right to water, or right to food or anything else), automatically they are bound by an inherent duty to that right. (like for example, the right to water in my belief inherently means that one shouldn't waste water because it affects the right of others to have that water, if not today, then potentially in future). Nothing in my mind is available for free. I remember, quite a long time back, almost 10-12 years ago, I was watching a serial 'Yehi hai Zindagi' (probably on Zee TV), where one of the characters said 'Duniya mein kuch bhi muft mein nahi milta, maa ka pyaar bhi nahi' (In the world, nothing is available for free, not even mother's love for a child). The inherent meaning is that even a mother loves a child in the hope that either that child (generally a boy in the Indian context for what I say ahead) will take care of the mother in her old age, or he/she will become a successful person (success in terms of job, money or something else as the mother defines or perceives) and she would be happy to share that success with others around her. (There could be other meanings as well). And I don't consider such a thing (even if one calls it selfishness) as wrong. Even these beliefs are based on some faith on the child, and they can give the mother freedom in certain ways. Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 15:14:55 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:14:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908030008w59b13f16j4472c47a71970522@mail.gmail.com> References: <4eab87870908020450i13359089jd3316fcb56b92bf9@mail.gmail.com> <993055.62821.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908022231h639801e1t35199f3cdc6174a7@mail.gmail.com> <5bedab660908022317m32f676cbkca63dbd72d53103e@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908030008w59b13f16j4472c47a71970522@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Murali ji Just a few queries. Are the buildings built by the Islamic rulers in India who ruled over this country, a part of 'our heritage' or not? And how do you decide what is 'our heritage' and what is not 'our heritage'? You said you won't like to pick everything, but why only the Vedas, the Upanishads and the epics as your picks? Awaiting your reply. Regards Rakesh From aliens at dataone.in Mon Aug 3 15:27:04 2009 From: aliens at dataone.in (bipin) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 15:27:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Temples Of Mirpur References: <306234.91400.qm@web39108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002801ca1420$c1c8ed00$0201a8c0@limo> Well said Mr. Malik ----- Original Message ----- From: "A.K. Malik" To: "Rakesh Iyer" Cc: "Sarai List" Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Temples Of Mirpur > > Dear Rakesh, > I think the role of the press in making comments like Muslim appointed > President/Vice President/Chief Justice of India etc do bring out as if > some favour has been done to them.In all other cases the word Hindu never > appears. Similarly, same is being done for Dalits.Dalit appointed Speaker, > dalit women raped etc.When you read all such things, it comes to one's > mind that all atrocities are being done to dalits only,if a Muslim is > appointed to a high post, it is news as if there is some favour. > But Rakesh, the viewpoint people like me have made is based on seeing > negative discriminations especially with the majority community.There are > lakhs of people like you who espouse the cause of the minorities because > you perhaps feel strongly if something wrong is being done.Reverse cases > are only isolated because they fear repercussions from their communities. > Then there are personal experiences as well.In our Office we used to take > lunch together even sharing some items with each other, with one of the > officers being a Muslim.There had never been any discrimination. The > moment another Muslim officer joined our office, this gentleman switched > over to having lunch with that fellow right from the lunch next day > itself.Same thing happened with the SC officer. None of us has ever done > like that in our lifetime.Rather I have seen minority community officers > doing favours to ilks of their faith but rarely so with the majority > community. > The divide is thus increasing day by day. > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > >> From: Rakesh Iyer >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Temples Of Mirpur >> To: "A.K. Malik" >> Cc: "Murali V" , "Sarai List" >> >> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 11:37 PM >> Dear Malik jee >> >> I did not comment on secularism. Any ways, our subcontinent >> has seen people of both Hindu and Muslim religions living >> together with the common masses among them living side by >> side without riots, at least till the 17th century. And >> while they may or may not have liked each other, that did >> not stop them from fighting together in the 1857 Revolt >> against the British. >> >> >> So probably they do know how to live together. And they >> don't need lectures from secularists or Hindutva >> ideologues on how to survive together. Hence, there is no >> requirement of secularism as I see it to be taught to >> children. What has to be taught (and most importantly >> inculcated in oneself) is respect and tolerance for the >> diversity. Which some hoodlums across all religions seem to >> lack. >> >> >> Regards >> >> Rakesh >> >> > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From murali.chalam at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 15:49:44 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:49:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: References: <4eab87870908020450i13359089jd3316fcb56b92bf9@mail.gmail.com> <993055.62821.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908022231h639801e1t35199f3cdc6174a7@mail.gmail.com> <5bedab660908022317m32f676cbkca63dbd72d53103e@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908030008w59b13f16j4472c47a71970522@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908030319x9dd8aeeha9b8064e4dd510c5@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh ji, I dont want to go into these controversial topic of buildings built by the Moghul Invaders. As regards what I decide to pick, it is my way of living and not that I considers the rest irrelevant. Regards, V Murali On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Murali ji > > Just a few queries. Are the buildings built by the Islamic rulers in India > who ruled over this country, a part of 'our heritage' or not? And how do you > decide what is 'our heritage' and what is not 'our heritage'? You said you > won't like to pick everything, but why only the Vedas, the Upanishads and > the epics as your picks? > > Awaiting your reply. > > Regards > > Rakesh > From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 16:31:17 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 16:31:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Temples Of Mirpur In-Reply-To: References: <181612.91077.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <134510.99878.qm@web39108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908030401q4a490ebp59a06c0ab998da79@mail.gmail.com> Recipes and books for them are written by many, how many can cook well.? Regards, Rajen. On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 12:52 AM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Malik ji > > On a personal experience based note, I can agree that there are Muslims who > like to live among themselves only, and so also there are some Hindus I > have > seen who are like that. I personally believe that it is and yet is not a > problem, depending on the side one looks at. > > If what you said is true and it happens because Muslims don't feel secure > among Hindus, then it is shameful and I think both sides should try and > bridge over the problem. It is extremely unfortunate that such incidents > occur even in the 21st century when Muslims feel secure only among Muslim > colleagues and vice versa for Hindus. And anyways, a wrong act is a wrong > act, whether it be done by a Hindu or a Muslim or anyone else. > > The divide today is particularly increasing with growing democratization of > power in Indian politics. Some of our intellectuals have a tendency to > celebrate this growing democratization of power in India, with the growth > of > a multi-party democracy being heralded as power being transferred to the > masses. This is a totally bogus claim when looked in reality, particularly > in the northern states of this country but substantially true in other > parts > of the nation as well. > > The fact of the matter is that in most parts of the country, this so-called > 'democratization' has come about with the view that political power is the > only way to redress grievances and in fact be the 'lords' over the masses. > Hence, the elites or particular groups across different castes and > communities have decided to fight to secure political power with the view > to > perpetrating their own dynastic or clan rule over the masses and thereby > enrich themselves, and also show their paternalist streak or mannerisms in > order to show off as being 'concerned' towards the plight of the people. > > On the other hand, education and health, as well as a humane and just > administration, which could have helped in truly solving the problems of > the > people take a back-seat, simply because once that takes place, then > irrespective of whoever forms the govt., the people would be able to live > peacefully, and then these personalities and groups would not be able to > claim fame and great name for themselves, so also the opportunity to earn > billions through dubious ways. All way to proper democratization, like > people's struggles to get employment, to get information about functioning > of the govt. as well as even in the Right to Food case, as well as solving > other problems, is simply a fodder for newspapers to be only thrown into > garbage if such issues gain some space in them. > > Therefore, this is not democratization but simply fragmentation of > political > power and its availability from a small group of people to a slightly > larger > group of people who can now lay claim over it. The rest is all bogus. > Dalits > suffer under Mayawati. Yadavs don't get genuine development or good HDI > (human development index) figures under Mulayam's rule. Jats and Gurjars on > gaining power through acquisition of land and political power indulge in > goondaism of the worst kind in some parts of UP and sometimes in Rajasthan > as well. Some of the backward castes in AP and Tamil Nadu also indulge in > caste discrimination of vicious kinds, although such instances are very > less > when compared to North India and are harshly condemned as a result of which > they are not that widely prevalent or easy to practice. > > The result is that within the society, the Muslims, the Dalits, the > Gurjars, > the different castes and minority religions, (the people belonging to them > that is), think that the only way they can get their problems solved is > simply acquiring political power, and the rest will automatically fall in > line. Also, this kind of fragmentation pits them in competition with other > groups, which means that they feel secure only within their own group. And > the end result is the kind of behavior you have experienced. > > The behavior of competition and feeling of insecurity within a diverse > group > is due to political compulsions entering personal lives. Of course, > political compulsions of other kinds also come to the party in ensuring > this. For example, the insecurity among the Muslims thanks to the BJP rule > or Hindutva based organizations ensures that Muslims also don't trust > Hindus > that much, and soon we have 'mini-Pakistans' (the name given to > Muslim-dominated demographic regions in cities of India). And if it's a > worse kind of case, like in say Gujarat, we have borders as well. (Like in > Vejalpur area of Ahmedabad, there is a fencing referred to as the > 'border'). > And in certain cases, the so-called 'secular' parties feed on this > segregation to try to get Muslims behind them and become politically > powerful. > > This is not what was supposed to be achieved. And hence the only solution > to > this is to actually fight for true democratization, and the inter-mingling > of people across various castes, religions and diverse backgrounds and > sexes. Moreover, there needs to be an appreciation for this as well, and > this can only be developed through interaction and education, for value > systems are one thing our education only can inculcate. Unfortunately, even > the education curriculum and syllabus in India are so prejudiced and > manipulated as per political whims, that even the education being offered > seems to be just to serve political bosses rather than to ensure that those > learning from it can actually help in contributing to a better world. > > The result is appearance of a disaster, the kinds of which will only be > visible when disgruntled elements across the society only indulge in > violence on a highly consistent basis, the likes of which we may never have > seen before ever in history. And it's time we actually join hands to stop > this from happening and start on a positive note. > > I think on a personal scale Malik jee, it's necessary for you to at least > ask that Muslim colleague of yours why he behaves like that, and whether he > feels insecure. I think that trust can be obtained, otherwise we can all > keep singing only in our dreams: > > 'ye dooriyan, in raahon ki dooriyan, nigahon ki dooriyan, humraahon ki > dooriyan, fanaa ho sabhi dooriyan' > > Regards > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajen. From sarang_shidore at yahoo.com Mon Aug 3 16:32:52 2009 From: sarang_shidore at yahoo.com (Sarang Shidore) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 04:02:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] ** Sino-Russia vs. Euro-America in Central Asia? ** Message-ID: <608415.85936.qm@web31815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> "Thus, the million-dollar question is whether the current unrest is a mere distant echo or is tantamount to a replay of the US efforts to fund and equip mujahideen fighters and to promote militant Islam as a geopolitical tool in Soviet Central Asia in the 1980s. That is why Biden's remarks harking back to Reaganism will be taken very seriously in Moscow and Beijing." "In effect, Beijing has signaled its willingness to underwrite the entire Moldovan economy which has an estimated gross domestic product of $8 billion and a paltry budget of $1.5 billion.The Chinese move is undoubtedly a geopolitical positioning." This is an intriguing thesis from MK Bhadrakumar. Is the old nefarious Washington-Riyadh nexus at it again; this time fanning new insurgencies in Xinjiang and the central Asian republics in a repeat if the 1980's buildup of an "Islamist International" in Afghanistan? Will this be in turn countered by another slew of repressive and violent behaviour from the authoritarian capitals of Moscow and Beijing, and the supposedly democratic capitals of New Delhi and Islamabad? It sounds like a continuation of the schizophrenic situation in "AfPak" - the Pakistani army funded and armed massively from Washington, substantial elements of which are aiding the Afghan so-called Taliban, yet at the same time, the same combination is also supposedly fighting the "Taliban". How many of the conflicting threads of conflict are by design, how many by accident, and how many by one component of a nation-state acting differently from another? How useful is the nation-state paradigm itself as we move into the future? As many "new paradigmers" have argued for the past 20 years, should we pretty much discard nation-states as primary units in the international system and replace them with some other combinations of entities with shifting alliances - energy lobbies, arms lobbies, climate change lobby, non-state ideological groups, tribes, sub-nations, different components of a common security apparatus (e.g. Pentagon vs. NATO, Pakistani army vs. Pakistani army etc.)? How does one best analyze the evolving international system? Nevertheless, one thing is clear, we must disabuse ourselves of any notions of good guys and bad guys in this dirty and violent new world order. There is no country or set of countries that has the moral high ground, no one who acts as the moral arbitrer and guarantor of anything other than self-interest and a willingness to use the most cynical means to further this self-interest. We have indeed come very far from the attempt of Tito, Nasser, and Nehru in the 1950's (howsoever feeble, haphazard, and compromised it may have been) to forge some emblance of an international order that balances self-interest and ethics... Sarang ----- China dips its toe in the Black Sea By M K Bhadrakumar Like the star gazers who last week watched the longest total solar eclipse of the 21st century, diplomatic observers had a field day watching the penumbra of big power politics involving the United States, Russia and China, which constitutes one of the crucial phenomena of 21st-century world politics. It all began with United States Vice President Joseph Biden choosing a tour of Ukraine and Georgia on July 20-23 to rebuke the Kremlin publicly for its "19th-century notions of spheres of influence". Biden's tour of Russia's troubled "near abroad" took place within a fortnight of US President Barack Obama's landmark visit to Moscow to "reset" the US's relations with Russia. Clearly, Biden's jaunt was choreographed as a forceful demonstration of the Barack Obama administration's resolve to keep up the US's strategic engagement of Eurasia - a rolling up of sleeves and gearing up for action after the exchange of customary pleasantries by Obama with his Kremlin counterpart Dmitry Medvedev. Plainly put, Biden's stark message was that the Obama administration intends to robustly challenge Russia's claim as the predominant power in the post-Soviet space. Biden ruled out any "trade-offs" with the Kremlin or any form of "recognition" of Russia's spheres of influence. He committed the Obama administration to supporting Ukraine's status as an "integral part of Europe" and Ukraine's Euro-Atlantic integration. Furthermore, in an interview with The Wall Street Journal, Biden spoke of Russia's own dim future in stark, existential terms. Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov promptly responded in an interview with the Moscow-based Vesti news channel. He said, "I hope the administration of President Obama will proceed from the agreements reached in Moscow. We believe the attempts by some people from within the administration to pull all of us back into the past, the way that Vice President Joe Biden, a well-known politician, did it, are not normative." Return to Reaganism Lavrov added, "Biden's interview with the Wall Street Journal seemed to have been copied from the speeches by leading officials of the George W Bush administration." However, it is difficult to be dismissive of Biden as an unauthentic voice. It was Biden who spoke of "resetting" the US's relations with Russia. He did raise expectations in Moscow. And Obama's visit to Moscow early in July has been widely interpreted as the formal commencement of the "reset" process. Now it transpires that the "reset" might take the US's policy towards Russia back to the 1980s and towards president Ronald Reagan's triumphalist thesis that Russia could not be a match for the US, given its deeply flawed economic structure and demography and, therefore, the grater the pressure on the Russian economy, the more conciliatory Moscow would be towards US pressure. As Stratfor, a US think-tank with links to the security establishment, summed up, the great game will be to "squeeze the Russians and let nature take its course". There is already some evidence of this coordinated Western approach toward Russia in the European Union's "Eastern Partnership" project, unveiled in Prague in May, the geographical scope of which consists of Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Moldova, Belarus and Ukraine, and which aims at drawing these post-Soviet states of "strategic importance" towards Brussels through a matrix of economic assistance, liberalized trade and investment and visa regimes that stop short of accession to the EU but effectively encourages them to loosen their ties with Russia. Indeed, the EU thrust has already begun eroding Russia's close ties with Belarus and Armenia. An immediate challenge lies ahead for Moscow as the parliamentary election results in Moldova have swept Europe's last ruling communist party from power by pro-EU opposition parties. The US and the EU have kept up the pressure tactic of April's abortive "Twitter revolution" in Moldova to force a regime change that puts an end to the leadership of President Vladimir Voronin, who has pro-Moscow leanings. The EU has made generous promises of economic integration to Moldova and Moscow made a counter-offer in June of a US$500 million loan. However, in a stunning development, China entered the fray this month and signed an agreement to loan $1 billion to Moldova at a highly favorable 3% interest rate over 15 years with a five-year grace period on interest payments. The money will be channeled through Covec, China's construction leviathan, as project exports in fields such as energy modernization, water systems, treatment plants, agriculture and high-tech industries. Curiously, China has offered that it is prepared to "guarantee financing for all projects considered necessary and justified by the Moldovan side" over and above the $1 billion loan. In effect, Beijing has signaled its willingness to underwrite the entire Moldovan economy which has an estimated gross domestic product of $8 billion and a paltry budget of $1.5 billion. The Chinese move is undoubtedly a geopolitical positioning. In an interesting tongue-in-cheek commentary recently, the People's Daily noted that "under the [Barack] Obama administration, the meaning and use of 'cyber diplomacy' has changed significantly ... US authorities ... stirred up trouble for Iran through websites such as Twitter ... [Secretary of State Hillary Clinton] said that this is the essence of smart power, adding that this change requires the US to broaden its concept of diplomacy". Moldova is a country where China has historically been an observer rather than a player. This is Beijing's first leap across Central Asia to the frayed western edges of Eurasia. Why is Moldova becoming so terribly important? Beijing will have calculated the immense geopolitical significance of Moldova's integration by the West. It would then be a matter of time before Moldova was inducted into the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), before the Black Sea became a "NATO lake" and the alliance positioned itself in a virtually unassailable position to march into the Caucasus and right into Central Asia on China's borders. What we may never quite know is the extent of coordination between Moscow and Beijing. Both capitals have stressed lately of increased Sino-Russian coordination in foreign policy. The joint statement issued after the visit by the Chinese President Hu Jintao to Russia in June specifically expressed Beijing's support for Moscow over the situation in the Caucasus. Clearly, a high degree of coordination is becoming visible across the entire post-Soviet space. Islamists on the Silk Road Thus, it is conceivable that Moscow would have sensitized Beijing about its intention to set up a second military base in Osh, Kyrgyzstan, which is located in close proximity to China's Xinjiang, and is a principal transit route for Central Asian Islamist fighters based in Afghanistan and Pakistan. There are definite signs of a revival of Islamist activities in Central Asia and the North Caucasus. China is carefully watching its fallout on Xinjiang. Though Western commentators take pains to characterize the renewed Islamist thrust into Central Asia as an outcome of the Pakistani military operations along the Pakistan-Afghan border areas which used to be sanctuaries for militant groups, the jury is still out. Chinese experts have pointed out that with the easing of cross-strait tensions in China's equations with Taiwan, the scope for US meddling in China's affairs has drastically reduced and this, in turn, has shifted US attention to China's western regions of Xinjiang and Tibet. There is much strategic ambiguity as to what is precipitating the fresh upswing of Islamist activities in the broad swathe of land that constitutes the "soft underbelly" of Russia and China. Within 48 hours of the outbreak of violence in Xinjiang earlier this month, Chinese Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi telephoned his Russian counterpart and Moscow issued a statement strongly supportive of Beijing. On July 10, a similar statement by the secretary general of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) followed, endorsing the steps taken by Beijing "within the framework of law" to bring "calm and restore normal life" in Xinjiang following clashes between ethnic Uyghurs and Han Chinese. The SCO statement reiterated the resolve to "further deepen practical cooperation in the filed of fighting against terrorism, separatism, extremism and transnational organized crime for the sake of [safeguarding] regional security and stability". Again, China has underscored that the regional security of Central Asia and South Asia is closely intertwined. Commenting on the SCO statement, the People's Daily said it "demonstrated that the SCO member states understood well that the situation in Xinjiang bears closely on that of the entire surrounding region ... Some Central Asian countries such as Pakistan and Afghanistan also fell victim to these evil forces ... The evil forces have also crossed the border to spread violence and terrorism by setting up training camps. Links have been discovered between these forces and the recent riot in Urumqi, capital of Xinjiang. The fight against these evil forces will greatly benefit all Central and South Asian countries as evidence has shown that the 'three evil forces' are detrimental not only to Xinjiang but also to the whole region." Significantly, in another commentary, the People's Daily launched a blistering attack on US policies in fanning unrest in Xinjiang. "To the Chinese people, it is nothing new that the US tacitly or openly fans the winds of resentment against China ... the US indiscriminately embraces all those forces hostile to China ... Perhaps, it is a customary practice for the US to adopt the double-standard when weighing its interests against others. Or, perhaps, it has some ulterior motive behind to ensure its supreme position will not be challenged or altered by splitting to weaken others ... Since the end of the 1980s, the US has never moderated its intention to stoke so-called 'China issues' ... This time, in their efforts to fan feuding between Han and Uighur Chinese by harboring and propping up separatist forces, the US is jumping out again to be the third party that would, for the secret hope, benefit from the tussle." There is no need, therefore, to second-guess that China supported the Russian initiative to call a quadrilateral regional security summit meeting in Dushanbe, Tajikistan, on Thursday, which was attended by the presidents of Russia, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Tajikistan. The Russian move poses a geopolitical challenge to the US, which has been monopolizing conflict-resolution in Afghanistan; keeping Russia out of the Hindu Kush; attempting to splinter the SCO-driven Sino-Russian convergence over regional security in Central Asia; stepping up diplomatic and political efforts to erode Russia's ties with Central Asian states; and expanding its influence and presence in Pakistan and steadily brining that country into the fold of NATO's partnership program. The tempo of the regional security summit in Dushanbe was set by Tajik President Imomali Rakhmon when he told his Pakistani counterpart Asif Ali Zardari at a meeting on Wednesday that he expected to work closely with Pakistan to prevent the rise of instability in Central Asia. "We do share similar and close positions on these issues and our countries should have taken coordinated actions aimed against this antagonistic phenomenon," Rakhmon said. Conceivably, China will also use its influence on Pakistan to nudge it in the direction of regional cooperation rather than passively subserve the US's regional policies. Zardari's initial remarks at Dushanbe, though, have been non-committal. He blandly responded to Rakhmon, "We will stand together against the challenges of this century." Moscow tabled as an agenda item for the Dushanbe summit a proposal for regional cooperation that involves selling electricity from Tajikistan's Sangtudinskaya hydroelectric power plant (in which Russia has invested $500 million and holds a controlling 75% equity) to Afghanistan and Pakistan. Ironically, the idea was originally an American brainwave aimed at bolstering the US's "Great Central Asia" strategy that hoped to draw the region out of the Russian and Chinese orbit of influence. Russia draws a Maginot Line Equally, it is all but certain that while China is not a member of the Russia-led Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO), Beijing will draw satisfaction that Moscow is building up the alliance's presence in Central Asia as a counterweight to NATO. After the unrest in Xinjiang, Beijing has a direct interest in the Russian idea of creating an anti-terrorist center in Kyrgyzstan and advancing the CSTO's rapid-reaction force (Collective Operational Reaction Forces) in Central Asia. No doubt, the outcome of the CSTO summit meeting in the resort town of Cholpon-Ata in Kyrgyzstan this weekend will be keenly watched in Beijing. On the eve of this summit, an aide to the Russian president revealed in Moscow on Wednesday that an agreement had been reached in principle about the opening of a Russian base in Osh under the CSTO banner. A Kremlin source also told the Russian newspaper Gazeta that the summit meeting would discuss the situation in Afghanistan. Viewed against this backdrop, the joint Russian-Chinese military exercises, dubbed "Peace Mission 2009", held on July 22-26, cannot be regarded as a mere repetition of two such exercises held in 2005 and 2007. True, all three exercises have been held under the framework of the SCO, but this year's has been in actuality a bilateral Russian-Chinese effort with other member states represented as "observers". Major General Qian Lihua of the Chinese Ministry of Defense claimed that the drills were of "profound significance" when the forces of terrorism, separatism and extremism are "rampant nowadays". He said that apart from strengthening regional security and stability, the exercises also symbolized the "high-level strategic and mutual trust" between China and Russia and became a "powerful move" for the two countries to strengthen "pragmatic cooperation" in the field of defense. Taking stock of the military-to-military cooperation between China and Russia, Qian said: First, high-level exchanges have become frequent. It has become a routine for the two nations to arrange an exchange between defense ministers or chiefs of general staff at least once a year. Frequent exchanges between defense departments and high-level military visits have effectively driven the smooth development of bilateral military relations between China and Russia. Second, strategic consultation has become a routine mechanism. Since 1997, the militaries of China and Russia established a mechanism to hold annual consultations between the two sides' leadership at the level of deputy chief of the general staff. So far, 12 rounds of strategic consultation have been held, which has promoted mutual trust and friendly cooperation. Third, exchanges between professional groups and teams have become pragmatic. The militaries of China and Russia have conducted pragmatic exchanges and cooperation in many forces and corps including communications, engineering and mapping. Qian anticipated that with the Peace Mission 2009, the "strategic mutual trust and the pragmatic cooperation between the two militaries will enter a new stage". China's concern is palpable in the face of the rise in militant Islamist activities in Central Asia. "The terrorists are quietly trying to take cover in Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan ... They've lived in Afghanistan for a long time," as Tajik Interior Minister Abdurakhim Kakhkharov put it recently. The Rasht Valley in the Pamir Mountains where the terrorists are gathering is only "trekking distance" from the Afghan (and Chinese) border. There are reports of famous Tajik Islamist commander Mullo Abdullo having returned from Afghanistan and Pakistan with his followers after nearly a decade and that he is trying to recruit militants in the Rasht Valley. From various accounts, militant elements from Russia's North Caucasus, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan and Xinjiang are linking up. To quote the Kyrgyz President Kurmanbek Bakiyev, "The Afghanistan situation is affecting not only Kyrgyzstan but Central Asia as a whole. People have come here to carry out acts of terror." Bakiyev added ominously, "There are still forces out there that we do not know about, who are here and who are ready to indulge in illegal activities. They have one aim: to destabilize Central Asia." Yet, NATO has pleaded helplessness in stopping the movement of the Taliban in the direction of the Tajik border. Thus, the million-dollar question is whether the current unrest is a mere distant echo or is tantamount to a replay of the US efforts to fund and equip mujahideen fighters and to promote militant Islam as a geopolitical tool in Soviet Central Asia in the 1980s. That is why Biden's remarks harking back to Reaganism will be taken very seriously in Moscow and Beijing - that the Russian economy is a wreck, Russia's geography is ridden with a range of weaknesses that are withering, and the US should not underestimate its hand. China's bold move in Moldova shows that it may have begun regarding the post-Soviet space as its own "near abroad". End of Chimerica? The point is, there is a hefty economic angle to the maneuverings. The US's Eurasia energy envoy Richard Morningstar bluntly admitted at a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing two weeks ago that China's success in gaining access to Caspian and Central Asia energy reserves threatened the US's geopolitical interests. Interestingly, the renewed spurt of unrest in Central Asia (including Xinjiang) - which Russian intelligence has been anticipating since end-2008 - is taking place along the route of the 7,000-kilometer gas pipeline from Turkmenistan via Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan and leading to Xinjiang that is expected to be commissioned by year-end. No doubt, the pipeline signifies a historic turning point in the geopolitics of the entire region. Well-known economic historian Niall Ferguson has compared "Chimerica" - the thesis that China and America have effectively fused to become a single economy - to "a marriage on the rocks". Ferguson anticipates, in the context of the Group of Two "strategic dialogue" between the US and China that took place in Washington this week, that a point will be reached when instead of continuing with the "unhappy marriage", China may decide to "got it alone ... to buy them global power in their own right". Factors influencing this are US saving rates soaring upwards and US imports from China significantly reducing; the Chinese feeling they have had enough of US government bonds, with the specter of the price of US Treasury bonds falling or the purchasing power of the dollar falling (or both) - either way China stands to lose. Ferguson sees that China may have already begun doing this and its campaign to buy foreign assets (such as in Moldova), its tentative movement toward a consumer society, its growing embrace of the special drawing rights idea of a basket of currencies to replace the dollar - all these are signs of an impending "Chinmerica divorce". But what does it entail for world politics? Ferguson says: Imagine a new Cold War but one in which the two superpowers are economically the same size, which was never true in the old Cold War because the USSR was always a lot poorer than the USA. Or, if you prefer an older analogy, imagine a rerun of the Anglo-German antagonism of the early 1900s, with America in the role of Britain and China in the role of imperial Germany. This is a better analogy because it captures the fact that a high level of economic integration does not necessarily prevent the growth of strategic rivalry and ultimately conflict. We are a long way from outright warfare, of course. These things build quite slowly. But the geopolitical tectonic plates are moving, and moving fast. The end of Chimerica is causing India and the United States to become more closely aligned. It's creating an opportunity for Moscow to forge closer links to Beijing.Surely, a major difference will be that while this month's solar eclipse is not expected to be surpassed until June 2132, there are no such certainties in the shifty world of big-power politics, especially the tricky triangular relationship involving the US, Russia and China. But one thing is certain. Like in the case of the solar eclipse that was gazed at from all conceivable corners of the Earth, the shift in the geopolitical tectonic plates and the resultant realignment of the co-relation of forces across Eurasia will be watched with keen interest by countries as diverse as India and Brazil, Iran and North Korea, Venezuela and Cuba, Syria and Sudan. Ambassador M K Bhadrakumar was a career diplomat in the Indian Foreign Service. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 16:37:00 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 16:37:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The 64th Anniversary Of USA Terrorism Enlightened By The Wisdom of Nonviolence By Eileen Fleming (fwd from Countercurrents.org) In-Reply-To: <1f9180970908030122m1b1912dq3318dd0d70f331f5@mail.gmail.com> References: <1f9180970908030122m1b1912dq3318dd0d70f331f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908030407s2eb9f026p98981c5e021c2796@mail.gmail.com> Sir, are you not forgetting the "carpet bombing " of daisy cutters in Afghanistan, or to that matter the killing of innocents to introduce democracy in Iraq searching the imaginary "weapons of Mass destruction" or to that matter the popular day of Manmohini Singh with deal of N-deal loosing the trust of the nation winning the trust with money bags.? Regards, Rajen. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Venugopalan K M wrote: > The 64th Anniversary Of USA Terrorism Enlightened By The Wisdom of > Nonviolence > > By Eileen Fleming > > 02 August, 2009 > Countercurrents.org > > This August 6th and 9th mark the 64th anniversary of the most brutal > acts of terrorism upon innocent people; America's atomic bombings of > Hiroshima and Nagasaki. > > On Armistice Day, 1948 General Omar Nelson Bradley warned, "We live in > a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants, in a world that has > achieved brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience. We have > solved the mystery of the atom and forgotten the lessons of the Sermon > on The Mount. We know more about war than we know about peace, more > about dying than we know about living." > > In 1995, from Ashkelon Prison, Mordechai Vanunu noted: "A radioactive > cloud consumed rubbed out Hiroshima...A live nuclear test sentenced > you. A nuclear laboratory…children women trees animals in and under a > nuclear mushroom…burning… burned…flattened to ground radioactive > ash-Hiroshima...Nuclear weapons gamblers win against you…Hollywood > doesn't know you - you are not a Jewish Holocaust." [1] > > A little history: > > At 2:45 AM, on August 6, 1945, an American B-29 bomber flew north from > Tinian Island toward Japan. Three and a half hours later, the Enola > Gay dropped "Little Boy" an 8,900-pound atomic weapon upon civilians > in Hiroshima and leveled almost 90% of the city. On August 9, "Fat > Man" was dropped on Nagasaki, and one third of that city was > destroyed. > > "Little Boy" was fuelled by highly enriched uranium-235 and generated > a destructive force of about 15 kilotons—the equivalent of 15,000 tons > of TNT. "Fat Man" consisted of a plutonium core surrounded by high > explosives wired to explode simultaneously and yielded a 22 kiloton > explosion. > > As a child, I could not comprehend how my country could cold bloodedly > target and murder Japanese citizens in order to 'save' American lives, > which was the lame response I always received from every adult I > questioned as to why after what we did to Hiroshima did we do it again > to Nagasaki? > > If THAT DAY, we call 9/11 taught us anything, it should be that > America's nuclear arsenal cannot defeat 'terrorism' or provide > security from the actions of a few violent mad men who target and > murder innocent ones. > > American money is imprinted with "IN GOD WE TRUST" but reality is we > have become a nation of hypocrites, for by our foreign policy we > expose that we live by the sword. > > America has a nuclear arsenal of over 10,000 weapons and nearly 2,000 > remain on hair-trigger alert ever since the end of the Cold War. > > An estimated 150 – 240 tactical nuclear weapons remain based in 5 NATO > countries and the United States is the only country with nuclear > weapons deployed on foreign soil. > > American taxpayers provide over $54 billion annually to maintain > WMD's, which is but a drop in the bucket of the overall U.S. military > spending. The U.S. is also a co-conspirator in international nuclear > apartheid and major collaborator in Israel's INEFFECTIVE policy of > nuclear ambiguity. > > In April 2004, and just three days after Vanunu was released from 18 > years in jail for providing the photographic proof and telling the > truth about Israel's clandestine seven story underground WMD Program > in the Negev, Uri Avnery wrote: > > "Everybody understands that he has no more secrets. What can a > technician know after 18 years in jail, during which technology has > advanced with giant steps? > > "But gradually it becomes clear what the security establishment is > really afraid of. Vanunu is in a position to expose the close > partnership with the United States in the development of Israel's > nuclear armaments. > > "This worries Washington so much, that the man responsible in the > State Department for 'arms control', Under-Secretary John Bolton, has > come to Israel in person for the occasion. Vanunu, it appears, can > cause severe damage to the mighty super-power. > > "The Americans, it seems, are very worried. The Israeli security > services have to dance to their tune. The world must be prevented by > all available means from hearing, from the lips of a credible witness, > that the Americans are full partners in Israel's nuclear arms program, > while pretending to be the world's sheriff for the prevention of > nuclear proliferation."[2] > > On July 29, 2009, Archbishop Edwin F. O’Brien of Baltimore gave a > keynote talk at the first Deterrence Symposium, hosted by U.S. > Strategic Command at Offutt Air Force Base in Nebraska. > > He said, "Our world and its leaders must stay focused on the > destination of a nuclear-weapons-free world and on the concrete steps > that lead there…[and] that deterrence, in the words of the U.S. > bishops, is not 'a long-term basis for peace' …the spread of nuclear > weapons and technology to other nations, and the threat of nuclear > terrorism, which cannot be deterred with nuclear weapons, point to the > need to move beyond nuclear deterrence as rapidly as > possible…Religious leaders, prominent officials, and other people of > goodwill who support a nuclear-weapons-free world are not naïve about > the task ahead. They know the path will be difficult and will require > determined political leadership, strong public support, and the > dedicated skills of many capable leaders and technical experts. But > difficult is not impossible.” [3] > > The Archbishop outlined several concrete steps toward total nuclear > disarmament supported by the Catholic Church, including the Nuclear > Test Ban Treaty, negotiations on a Fissile Material Cut-Off Treaty, > and the revision of military doctrines of nuclear weapon states to > “renounce the first use of nuclear weapons” and “declare they will not > be used against non-nuclear threats.”[Ibid] > > In Hiroshima on May 2008, Nobel Peace Prize Laureate, Mairead Maguire said: > > "We live in an insecure, uncertain world; it is also a time of > opportunity. It is a time to put aside many of the old ways and with > creativity and imagination, develop new thinking, ideas, institutions, > etc. Young people and women will help this process; they know that > Nuclear weapons belong to the cold war thinking, and can never be > used. To do so, would be immoral, illogical and destroy the > Environment. > > "They know our real problems, are: Poverty, Environment, unethical > globalization, abuse of Human Rights and International Laws, gender > inequality, ethnical/political conflict, State and paramilitary acts > of terror…They know that spending trillions on weapons that can never > be used, while each day over 30,000 children die of preventable > disease, is immoral and unacceptable. > > "We are all aware that we are living in an increasing Culture of > violence, and if we are to survive we need to build a Culture of > Non-violence. Choosing not to kill another human being is the greatest > contribution each of us can make to peace. This is not a hard choice > when through prayer, meditation, morality, or logic, we come to > realize that our lives are sacred as is the life of all our brothers > and sisters, and there are always alternatives to violence which work. > Human beings are evolving and there is a new consciousness that we > must choose non-violence and build strong relationships and > community." [4] > > On May 17, 2009, Mairead prevailed on seventeen Nobel laureates to > sign a letter called the Hiroshima-Nagasaki Declaration. Her friend, > author and Jesuit priest John Dear wrote of that day: > > "Released in Hiroshima, it calls upon world leaders, and all people, > to eliminate nuclear weapons. And it warns that unless humanity fails > in that endeavor, 'the horrors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki' will be > repeated. Such weapons, [Mairead] says, belong to the tragic past. > They belong to a time when the world lacked the wisdom to realize that > each culture needs the other to survive. > > "Governments which still hold such weapons violate the prohibition of > war in the UN charter. But more than that, she says, they’re operating > anachronistically. They’re out of touch with the insights of the > times. Nowadays our enemies aren’t across the border. The enemies of > humanity today are poverty, environmental destruction, militarism, and > war. > > "Our security nowadays lies in nonviolence and love. She insists that > we all need to heed the wisdom of nonviolence and apply it > institutionally, internationally, globally and concluded in The Vision > of Peace, 'Everyone of us has a role to play in the creation of a new > culture of nonviolence.'" [5] > > 2009 is the final year in the United Nations Decade of Creating a > Culture of Nonviolence for All the Children of the World. America is > on the record in the UN as abstaining from voting because to support > such an initiative would make it "too hard for us to go to war." > > Many Americans live under the delusion that the USA is a Christian > nation. If that were true, we would lead the way in nuclear > disarmament and abolish war. > > John Dear also wrote: > > "Contrary to what the Pentagon tells us, that our God is not a god of > war, but the God of peace; not a god of injustice, but the God of > justice; not a god of vengeance and retaliation, but the God of > compassion and mercy; not a god of violence, but the God of > non-violence; not a god of death, but the living God of life. > > "[And then] we discover a new image of God. As we begin to imagine the > peace and non-violence of God; we learn to worship the God of peace > and non-violence; and in the process, become people of peace and > non-violence. > > "The one thing we can say for sure about Jesus is that he practiced > active, public, creative non-violence. He called us to love our > neighbors; to show compassion toward everyone; to seek justice for the > poor; to forgive everyone; to put down the sword; to take up the cross > in the struggle for justice and peace; to lay down our lives, to risk > our lives if necessary, in love for all humanity, and most of all, to > love our enemies. His last words to the community, to the church, to > us, as the soldiers dragged him away, could not be clearer or more to > the point: "Put down the sword." > > "That's it. We are not allowed to kill. That's why they run away; they > realize he is serious about non-violence…Jesus dies on the cross > saying, "The violence stops here in my body, which is given for you. > You are forgiven, but from now on, you are not allowed to kill: > > "Violence doesn't work. War doesn't work. Violence in response to > violence always leads to further violence. Those who live by the sword > will die by the sword. Those who live by the bomb, the gun, the > nuclear weapon, will die by bombs, guns and nuclear weapons. You reap > what you sow. The means are the ends. What goes around comes around. > War can not stop terrorism because war is terrorism. War only sows the > seeds for future wars. > > "Underneath this culture of war and injustice is a sophisticated > spirituality of violence, a spirituality of war, a spirituality of > empire, a spirituality of injustice that has nothing to do with the > living God or the Gospel of Jesus. [Ibid] > > Jesus is best known as The Prince of Peace and when he told Nicodemus, > that you must be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven, he was not > talking about an emotional high, but a TRANSFORMATION of heart and > mind to wake up and see The Divine in ALL people and all of creation. > > Every August 6th in the Eastern Orthodox, Catholic, and Anglican > churches, there is a celebration of the Feast of the Transfiguration > of Jesus, an event reported in the synoptic gospels in which Jesus > became radiant having undergone a metamorphosis; a transformation. > > In 2008, at the National Press Club, Rev. Dr. John Chryssavgis, > Theological Advisor to the Ecumenical Patriarch on Environmental > Issues, Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America addressed President > Bush's agenda known as COMPLEX TRANSFORMATION: > > "The question is not how much more sophisticated our plants and > weapons can become, but how serious we are as a nation to lead the > world with an alternative vision which interprets power differently > and promotes peaceful coexistence globally. > > "Complex Transformation is the Bush administration proposed plan to > restructure the nation's nuclear weapons infrastructure. The > administration's goal is to consolidate existing nuclear facilities > while increasing the capacity to produce material for new nuclear > weapons. > > "According to a report jointly released by the Energy Department (DOE) > on January 10, 2008, the administration seeks an annual production > capacity of 80 plutonium pits (read: triggers for new nuclear bombs) > as a result of the transformation. > > "The main justification for the program is the perceived need for a > more adaptable and responsive nuclear infrastructure to react to > unnamed future threats."[6] > > The Wisdom of Nonviolence > > "The God of peace is never glorified by human violence… The radical > truth of reality is that we are all one." –Thomas Merton > > Gandhi's non-violence was a political tactic that evolved from the > inner realization of spiritual unity within himself. Gandhi studied > all the world's religions and after attending many churches, he > remarked that Christianity was a great religion and all Christians > should "TRY IT!" > > The problem is not with Christianity, but that too few who claim to be > have taken The Sermon on The Mount as their manifesto and live lives > that express that God is Love and God Loves All. > > "Love is not the starving of whole populations. Love is not the > bombardment of open cities. Love is not killing......Our manifesto is > the Sermon on the Mount, which means that we will try to be > peacemakers." -Dorothy Day > > "The wisdom of non-violence teaches that war is not the way to follow > Jesus. War is not the will of God. War is never justified. War is > never blessed by God. War is not endorsed by any religion. War is the > very definition of mortal sin. War is demonic, evil, anti-human, > anti-life, anti-God, and anti-Christ." [7] > > "In all of earth’s sixty-five-million-year history, we are living in > the most dangerous of times. The fact that a bomb was dropped on > Hiroshima and two hundred thousand lives were vaporized within twenty > minutes has not prevented man from dreaming up more ways to fill space > with weapons of mass destruction. We were not created for militarism, > but to turn our swords into plowshares. We have arrived here today by > no accident. We have been summoned by the universe to claim the > highest common ground. As the Dali Lama said, the radicalism of our > age is to be compassionate human beings. We have been called to bring > love and compassion back into the equation and assist others to > connect with the deepest parts of themselves. Now is the time to > realize, as never before, that when any of us suffer, we all suffer. > All life is interconnected, interdependent, and greatly loved by the > creator, the sustainer of the universe. We are called by love, for > love, and to love.”- Franciscan Fr. Louis Vitale, July 20, 2005, > Berkeley, California at TIKKUN’s first annual conference for spiritual > progressives. [8] > > From Ashkelon prison in 1987, Mordechai Vanunu asked: > > "Any country, which manufactures and stocks nuclear weapons, is first > of all endangering its own citizens. This is why the citizens must > confront their government and warn it that it has no right to expose > them to this danger. Because, in effect, the citizens are being held > hostage by their own government, just as if they have been hijacked > and deprived of their freedom and threatened…when governments develop > nuclear weapons without the consent of their citizens - and this is > true in most cases - they are violating the basic rights of their > citizens, the basic right not to live under constant threat of > annihilation…Is any government qualified and authorized to produce > such weapons?" > > On April 5, 2009, President Obama stood on the world stage amongst > thousands of flag-waving Czechs and spoke of good humor, home town > Chicago, the will of the people over tanks and guns, old conflicts, > revolution, moral leadership as the most powerful weapon, iron > curtains that fell and the state of 21st century nuclear weapons: > > "We are here today because enough people ignored the voices who told > them that the world could not change. We're here today because of the > courage of those who stood up and took risks to say that freedom is a > right for all people, no matter what side of a wall they live on, and > no matter what they look like. We are here today because the simple > and principled pursuit of liberty and opportunity shamed those who > relied on the power of tanks and arms to put down the will of a > people. > > "Some argue that the spread of these weapons cannot be stopped, cannot > be checked -– that we are destined to live in a world where more > nations and more people possess the ultimate tools of destruction. > Such fatalism is a deadly adversary, for if we believe that the spread > of nuclear weapons is inevitable, then in some way we are admitting to > ourselves that the use of nuclear weapons is inevitable. > > "As the only nuclear power to have used a nuclear weapon, the United > States has a moral responsibility to act…It will take patience and > persistence. But now we, too, must ignore the voices who tell us that > the world cannot change. We have to insist, "Yes, we can." > > "There is violence and injustice in our world that must be confronted. > We must confront it by standing together as free nations, as free > people. I know that a call to arms can stir the souls of men and women > more than a call to lay them down. But that is why the voices for > peace and progress must be raised together. > > "Let us honor our past by reaching for a better future. Let us bridge > our divisions, build upon our hopes, and accept our responsibility to > leave this world more prosperous and more peaceful than we found it. > Together we can do it. > > "Words must mean something [and] violence and injustice must be > confronted by standing together as free nations, as free people…[and] > Human destiny will be what we make of it."[9] > > To this day, the USA and Israel claim to be peace seekers and democracies. > > "Israel is a not a democracy but is an Ethnocracy, meaning a country > run and controlled by a national group with some democratic elements > but set up with Jews in control and structured to keep them in > control.”-Jeff Halper, American Israeli, Founder and Coordinator of > ICAHD/Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions and a Noble Peace > Prize Nominee for 2006. > > To this day Vanunu remains an open air prisoner captive in occupied > east Jerusalem denied the right to leave the Jewish State. What > Vanunu's Freedom of Speech trial exposed since it began on January 25, > 2006 is that the Israeli SECURITY System controls the Israeli Ministry > of Justice. [Learn more: Vanunu Archives @ WeAreWideAwake.org] > > To this day, Tel Aviv persists to attempt to deflect its egregious > transgressions of international law and human rights abuses aided and > abetted by well funded publicity campaigns, an AIPAC beholden Congress > and an American media that has failed at its commission to seek and > report all sides of a story when in comes to the now 42 years of > military occupation of Palestine. > > In April 1999, thirty-six members of the House of Representatives > signed a letter calling for Vanunu's release from prison because they > believed "we have a duty to stand up for men and women like Mordechai > Vanunu who dare to articulate a brighter vision for humanity." > > President Clinton responded with a public statement expressing concern > for Vanunu and the need for Israel and other non-parties to the > Non-Proliferation Treaty to adhere to it and accept IAEA safeguards. > > However, ever since the silence had been deafening, until hope > resurrected in Prague: > > "Words must mean something [and] violence and injustice must be > confronted by standing together as free nations, as free people…Human > destiny will be what we make of it."-President Obama > > "You cannot talk like sane men around a peace table while the atomic > bomb itself is ticking beneath it. Do not treat the atomic bomb as a > weapon of offense; do not treat it as an instrument of the police. > Treat the bomb for what it is: the visible insanity of a civilization > that has ceased...to obey the laws of life."- Lewis Mumford, 1946 > > "Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think > we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends...I believe that as soon > as people want peace in the world they can have it. The only trouble > is they are not aware they can get it…You're just left with yourself > all the time, whatever you do anyway. You've got to get down to your > own God in your own temple. It's all down to you, mate...All we are > saying is give peace a chance...All you need is love...Imagine all the > people living life in peace. You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not > the only one. I hope someday you'll join us, and the world will be as > one...Reality leaves a lot to the imagination."-John Lennon > > "If you are not apart of the solution; you are apart of the > problem."-Eldridge Cleaver > > Learn more and please and thanks for doing something: > > http://www.paxchristiusa.org/newsletters/ > October2008NewsletterWeb.pdf > > http://www.wearewideawake.org/index.php? > option=com_content&task=view&id=660&Itemid=175 > > 1. http://vanunu.com/poems/mvpoemhiroshima.html > > 2. http://www.fromoccupiedpalestine.org > /taxonomy/term/226 > > 3. www.usccb.org/sdwp/international/n. The full text of Archbishop > O’Brien’s talk, “Nuclear Weapons and Moral Questions: The Path to > Zero,” uclearzero.shtml. > > 4. http://peacepeople.com > > 5. http://www.fatherjohndear.org/articles > /Nobel_Laureates.html > > 6. http://www.faithfulsecurity.org/ > html/complex_transformation.html > > 7. http://www.fatherjohndear.org/speeches > /thomas_merton_wisdom.htm > > 8. eileen fleming, KEEP HOPE ALIVE, page 156 > > 9. http://wearewideawake.org/index.php?option=com_ > content&task=view&id=1247&Itemid=219 > > Eileen Fleming, A Feature Correspondent for Arabisto.com and Founder > of WeAreWideAwake.org Author of "Keep Hope Alive" and "Memoirs of a > Nice Irish American 'Girl's' Life in Occupied Territory"Producer "30 > Minutes with Vanunu" and "13 Minutes with Vanunu" > > > > -- > http://venukm.blogspot.com > > http://www.shelfari.com/kmvenuannur > > http://kmvenuannur.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajen. From nagraj.adve at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 16:41:14 2009 From: nagraj.adve at gmail.com (Nagraj Adve) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 16:41:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] On Delhi In-Reply-To: <4A7414A5.8090504@ranadasgupta.com> References: <4A6FFCEF.90205@ranadasgupta.com> <3ef603b70907290338n186e9077iae894bf724fed429@mail.gmail.com> <564b2fca0907290451r37bfc21dqa95101e0d65677a3@mail.gmail.com> <4A718DCE.2010809@ranadasgupta.com> <1CCDDA48-3D24-4128-8A09-431915B2B710@sarai.net> <4A7414A5.8090504@ranadasgupta.com> Message-ID: <564b2fca0908030411m2d2292daofb257102d87ee06b@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rana, Shudda, The use of the concept 'socialist' was a minor part of your very interesting piece, so debating the point further may seem a bit excessive. However ... I guess the interesting part also is not just whether the term 'socialist' was mainstream or not but how and why it was mainstreamed. Hence, like Shudda says, the insertion of the word in the Constitution along with the Emergency. Obvious legitimizing tool. It is now a commonplace that the period of centralized planning was a compulsion. More signficantly, Indian capital in the 1940s was quite happy with state handouts and investment in certain areas, but not with the conditions and discipline that the state tried to impose, a point Vivek Chibber makes in his very interesting book whose name I have completely forgotten. And how the Congress floated unions to fragment more radical unions at the time. And 'socialist' Nehru was cheerfully imposing AFSPA in Kashmir (1958), and bombing villages in the Naga Hills (1955 onwards), incorporating by force regions that had never been parts of the Empire. Anyhow... warmly, Naga On 01/08/2009, Rana Dasgupta wrote: > > You are right: my use of "Socialist" in the essay was essentially the same > as that in mainstream contemporary parlance - in newspapers, for instance - > where the word is used to characterise a period of centralised planning (and > to make the contrast with the "liberalised" India of post-1993). > Nevertheless there was indeed sharp irony - as you suggest, Shuddha ("The > only way, to my mind, to echo these pretences today, is by way of some sharp > irony") - about the way the word was used in this piece. For those attuned > to irony, phrases such as "the Socialist elite" or "the Socialist ruling > class" must surely seem a trifle wry. > > But my essay is not the issue here. The question you are raising is > larger: do we accept the meanings of mainstream speech, and use them to our > own purposes, or do we reject mainstream speech as a deception, a lapsed > form ("ill-educated and foolish"), and insist on purer meanings of our own? > In the particular case at hand, do we ignore the immense degradations that > the word "Socialism" has gone through in the last century, say that none of > these things was in fact "Socialism" - and claim that "Socialism" continues > to refer to something else? Or do we accept the weight of those > degradations, allow that the word can never be restored to its pristine > origins, and reconcile ourselves to new usages - and perhaps the necessity > of coinage? > > There is no single answer to this question. Sometimes it is useful to > accept the shorthands of mainstream speech. Sometimes it is important to > use a word strategically in a restored context. > Though you say "even if we were to consider the 'nationalization' of > industries and enterprises, and the adoption of centralized planning as > 'Socialist' measures (which I certainly do not)" there are many who would > see this as the defining feature of Socialism - including, since you bring > it up, the British Labour Party, which was said to have left behind its > Socialist origins when it deleted Clause 4 - the commitment to > nationalisation of industries - from its constitution. As far as the list > of would-be "Socialist" leaders that you give is concerned, it is pretty > clear that state control of a capitalist economy was what was in the minds > of many of them when they espoused the word. Personally I think this > meaning is too well-entrenched for us to claim it is only "fools" who would > use it. > > Even if you were to agree with that, it would by no means be the end of all > the questions, however. The real question is the future of all the ideas > that have historically operated under the word "Socialism" - which do not > require this word in order to retain their force. As you say, eloquently: a > state is not a social formation. > > R > > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > >> Dear Rana, (and Naga) >> Thanks for the discussion. >> Just a note of caution, in which I would agree with Naga's comments on >> your usage of the term 'Socialist' which I think mars an otherwise very well >> argued and etched out piece. >> >> Various political figures, ranging from Mussolini, to Hitler, to Nye >> Bevan, to Stalin, to Pilsudski, to Indira Gandhi, to Atal Behari Vajpayee, >> to Chiang Kai Shek and Idi Amin described (at some time or the other, or >> throughout their political careers) their politics as 'socialist' and their >> parties/movements as 'Socialist'. Others, such as The only way, to my mind, >> to echo these pretences today, is by way of some sharp irony. >> It is true, that Nehru (and some of his other colleagues) did propose the >> goal of moving 'towards Socialism' to the Congress Party. And the word >> 'Socialist' was inserted into the Indian constitution during the darkest >> days of the Emergency as a fig leaf to cover the reality of repression. >> But the policies adopted by Nehru's government, and his immediate >> successors, (right up to Indira Gandhi) even if we were to consider the >> 'nationalization' of industries and enterprises, and the adoption of >> centralized planning as 'Socialist' measures (which I certainly do not), >> were arguably less far-reaching than even the policies followed by the post >> war Labour government in the UK. >> No one, as far as I know, describes the United Kingdom under Clement Atlee >> as a 'Socialist' society. It would be difficult to reconcile the depth of >> the British class system's bite in the 1950s with any thing even remotely >> approximating 'Socialism'. One of the founding documents of the British >> Labour Party - the resolution adopted by the Labour Representation Committee >> of 1905 (moved by W. Atkinson of the Paperstainers Union, and seconded by >> Will Thorne, of the Gasworkers Union, which stayed on the Labour Party's >> books until its quiet, and embarrassed removal, in the 80s) commits the >> emergent Labour Party to the goal of >> 'This annual conference of the LRC hereby declares that its ultimate >> object shall be the obtaining for the workers of the full results of their >> labour by the overthrow of the present competitive system of capitalism and >> the institution of a system of public ownership of all the means of >> production, distribution and exchange.' >> Despite this, it would be hard to call the Liberal-Labour Governments of >> Ramsay Macdonald, or of Bevan and Atlee, right on to the 'New Labour' of >> Tony Blair or Gordon Brown - as anything even remotely resembling Socialism. >> And yet, Post War Britain, had more extensive measures taken for state >> control of key industries than India ever had. >> >> If that be the case, how could we (by the same yardstick) describe India >> as 'Socialist'. Is it just that we are (or have become) more accustomed to >> identify Capitalism with affluence, and hence, the seemingly 'affluent' >> reality of the UK seems more persuasively 'Capitalist' than other realities, >> elsewhere, such as in India. Hence, newspaper editors in the Indian English >> Press routinely call the state-capitalist measures taken by Nehru and Indira >> Gandhi, 'Socialist'. I can forgive Indian English Newspaper editors, because >> they (by and large) tend to be ill-educated and foolish, but I expect better >> from you. >> Finally, is it at all necessary to ascribe to nation states, qualifiers >> that are more appropriate when speaking of social formations? A nation state >> is not a social formation. Those who thought so, and tried to carry their >> thought into practice, ended up leaving us with two of the twentieth >> century's greatest tragedies - 'Socialism in One Country' (Stalinism) and >> 'National Socialism' (Nazism). >> I think that the current loose way in which the term 'socialist' is >> bandied about in the media, and in fulsome political rhetoric, both here, as >> well as elsewhere, might have, unconcsiously seeped into your writing in >> this article. I think that for a person of your acuity, it would be best to >> be on guard, in the future. >> >> an eager reader of your writing, >> Shuddha >> >> >> On 30-Jul-09, at 5:40 PM, Rana Dasgupta wrote: >> >> Thank you for good thoughts, Naga: all the things you list are, of >>> course, deeply relevant - and many more. In retrospect the "land" section >>> could probably have had more bite. I did hope the Nanda incident, as well >>> as the Ethiopian land acquisition, would give a sense of the impact - >>> literal and figurative - between this emerging class of global capitalists >>> and farmers and workers. >>> >>> On socialism: though I agree that such shorthands are never satisfying to >>> categorise a whole era and system - who has a monopoly on the meaning of the >>> word? Nehru called the society he built a "socialist" society, and the >>> India of that era had in place many of the features - eg centralised >>> production - that characterise other nations that call themselves >>> "socialist". The meaning that the word thus acquires is surely real...? >>> >>> Thanks again >>> >>> R >>> >>> >>> >>> Nagraj Adve wrote: >>> >>>> Very nice piece Rana, thanks. I sometimes have this unspoken and >>>> somewhat sinking feeling when I think of this segment of the capitalist >>>> class your piece discusses. Fear may seem a strong word but I can't think of >>>> any other to describe the emotion. As activists in this city for some years >>>> now, I don't think we even grapple with the realities of this class; perhaps >>>> those who are trade unionists do. >>>> >>>> Just some specific reactions to parts of the piece, reactions that are >>>> disjointed. I liked the bits with the therapist Anurag Mishra, an >>>> interesting angle. And also MC at the end of the piece. And Tarun Tejpal's >>>> comments sadly are not too bleak, though there's also a growing resistance >>>> to the intensifying rape of resources. >>>> >>>> Couple of observations: The absence of any line or comment on the >>>> working poor of this city - women working as domestic help and increasingly >>>> as construction labour who build the stuff that DLF makes its money from; >>>> factory workers; adivasi migrants who leave their own homes and communities >>>> to work in the homes of the rich here - was striking. I do realize that the >>>> piece was about the very rich, but as EP Thompson said in his famous intro >>>> to 'The Making ...", you can't have the one without the other. Also, a >>>> mention of the destruction of jhuggis in 1996 and 2001 (30,000 homes along >>>> the Yamuna Pushta) would have been relevant. And also the closure of >>>> industries that happened at the time. Or the decline in real wages. >>>> >>>> Finally, in passing: you refer about half a dozen times to India as >>>> being 'socialist' in earlier decades. It has never been even remotely so, >>>> not for a single day. Gunnar Mrydal had some blunt stuff to say about that >>>> during a visit to Delhi in 1958. >>>> >>>> Thanks for the piece. >>>> warmly, >>>> Naga >>>> >>>> >>>> On 29/07/2009, *Sudeshna Chatterjee* >>> sudeshna.kca at gmail.com> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Its a really good read! Highly recommended. >>>> >>>> Sudeshna >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Rana Dasgupta >>>> >wrote: >>>> >>>> My recent essay about Delhi, and the culture of its new rich, >>>>> >>>> from the >>>> >>>>> current edition of Granta magazine. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.ranadasgupta.com/texts.asp?text_id=47 >>>>> >>>>> Enjoy! >>>>> >>>>> R >>>>> _________________________________________ >>>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>>> reader-list-request at sarai.net> >>>>> >>>> with >>>> >>>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sudeshna Chatterjee, PhD >>>> New Delhi, India >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net>>> reader-list-request at sarai.net> >>>> with subscribe in the >>>> subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> "I'm an ex-citizen of nowhere. And sometimes I get mighty homesick." >>> >>> Rana Dasgupta >>> www.ranadasgupta.com >>> >>> >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> reader-list-request at sarai.net> with subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List >>> archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS >> Raqs Media Collective >> shuddha at sarai.net >> www.sarai.net >> www.raqsmediacollective.net >> >> >> > -- > "I'm an ex-citizen of nowhere. And sometimes I get mighty homesick." > > Rana Dasgupta > www.ranadasgupta.com > > > From pkray11 at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 17:17:12 2009 From: pkray11 at gmail.com (prakash ray) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:17:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Habib Tanvir's play banned in Chhattisgarh Message-ID: <98f331e00908030447i6aa6b520q8fdb4a79e0625c71@mail.gmail.com> Charandas Chor, the famous play of Habib Saheb is banned by the Chhattisgarh govt. http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=India&id=ad4622e2-14fa-4758-9560-988d1d07029f&Headline=Chhattisgarh+bans+Habib+Tanvir%E2%80%99s+masterpiece+EMCharandas+ChorEM a true fascist tribute to the master. PKR www.cinemela.youthv.com From shuddha at sarai.net Mon Aug 3 17:32:20 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:32:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Habib Tanvir's play banned in Chhattisgarh In-Reply-To: <98f331e00908030447i6aa6b520q8fdb4a79e0625c71@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00908030447i6aa6b520q8fdb4a79e0625c71@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: For all those, like me, who have really enjoyed watching Charandas Chor, a matter of true shame. But unsurprising, because governments that sponsor thugs like the Salwa Judum also ban enjoyable pieces of theatre. On 03-Aug-09, at 5:17 PM, prakash ray wrote: > Charandas Chor, the famous play of Habib Saheb is banned by the > Chhattisgarh > govt. > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx? > sectionName=India&id=ad4622e2-14fa-4758-9560-988d1d07029f&Headline=Chh > attisgarh+bans+Habib+Tanvir%E2%80%99s+masterpiece+EMCharandas+ChorEM > > a true fascist tribute to the master. > > PKR > www.cinemela.youthv.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 17:51:32 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:51:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] An article to expose Indian state's bogus claims Message-ID: Dear all I am proud to put on this forum an article which shows the bogus claims of Indian state regarding the recently developed nuclear submarine 'Arihant', as well as exposes the claims of how they will fight terrorism. I never knew that increasing the defence budget through acquisitions of fighter aircrafts will strengthen our war against terror. Probably we are going to be the second US , bombing Waziristan or Balochistan. Regards Rakesh Article: rediff.com [image: Rediff][image: News] &amp;lt;a href=" http://ads.rediff.com/RealMedia/ads/click_lx.ads/innewsA.rediff.com/news-article.htm/1910085822/LB02/OasDefault/LB_LifeStyle_News_Spons02/LB_LifeStyle_News_Spons0101.html/63626337643538333436636562366430?_RM_REDIR_=http://www.lifestylestores.com/pages/july-offer-02.htm" target="_new"&amp;gt;&amp;lt;IMG SRC=" http://imads.rediff.com/RealMedia/ads/Creatives/OasDefault/LB_LifeStyle_News_Spons02/LifestyleSale1b_728x90_29Jul09_bkupgif.gif" WIDTH=728 HEIGHT=90 BORDER=0&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/a&amp;gt; August 03, 2009 Sinking billions into nuclear weapons *Tags: *India, Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research, Captain B K Subba Rao, Defence Research & Development Organisation, When Ms Gursharan Kaur Email this Save to My Page Ask Users Write a Comment When Ms Gursharan Kaur, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's [ Images] wife, broke a coconut on the hull of the INS Arihant amidst the chanting of Vedic verses, the Indian government took a step towards realising its post-1998 quest for a grand nuclear weapons power status. When the submarine is commissioned in a few years, India will have a 'second-strike capability': Even if its land-or air-based nuclear weapons are destroyed/immobilised, India can still fire a nuclear-tipped missile at the adversary from the ship, which can stay underwater for months at a time and is therefore hard to detect. The Arihant's launch has been called a great achievement of indigenous technology, which gives 'real teeth' to nuclear deterrence and enhances India's security without threatening others. Dr Singh said: 'We do not have any aggressive designs, nor do we seek to threaten anyone...' But the rationale of nuclear deterrence is based on inducing terror through mass destruction weapons. According to that doctrine, you prevent your enemy from nuking you by threatening 'unacceptable damage' through an attack which instantly kills hundreds of thousands or millions of civilians. Nuclear deterrence is a deeply flawed doctrine and was described for half-a-century by India as morally 'abhorrent' and strategically irrational. However, what of the claim that the Arihant is an indigenous technological feat, which shows mastery of 'complex' skills of compacting the reactor which propels the submarine? In fact, the core of the Arihant technology lies in the reactor's design and construction. And that technology came from Russia [ Images ]. Scores of Russian engineers were sent to India to aid the Department of Atomic Energy (DAE) and the Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO). It was the Russians who supplied the vital designs, precision equipment based on their VM-5 reactor, and the technology of miniaturising the reactor. At the launch, Dr Singh, Defence Minister A K Antony and Navy chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta all appreciatively mentioned Russia's 'cooperation' -- a euphemism for virtually building the reactor, fitting it with high-quality components and providing precision welding inputs. Present at the function were 143 Russian engineers, designers and consultants who were crucial participants in the project. So much for the 'indigenous' technology claim. In fact, the nuclear submarine project is a long story of failures on the part of the DAE and DRDO, two of the worst performing departments of the government, which have never completed a major project on schedule and without huge cost overruns such as 200 or 500 percent. The submarine project was sanctioned in 1970 by Indira Gandhi [ Images]. Then DAE secretary Raja Ramanna's original design of 1975 proved totally unviable and had to be abandoned after about Rs 100 crores (or Rs 1 billion in today's terms) was spent on it. The DAE learnt no lessons from this disaster. Indeed, when a critic with a reactor engineering doctorate, then navy Captain B K Subba Rao, voiced his doubts about its design, he was victimised. He was arrested on his way abroad for an academic conference and charged with espionage -- an accusation he successfully disproved after long periods in jail. The project, codenamed Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV), was relaunched in 1975 under the DRDO, helped by the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre, Mumbai [ Images ] and the Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research, Kalpakkam, and a large number of consultants in the public and private sectors. This soaked up as much as Rs 2,500 crores (Rs 25 billion) in research and development (R&D) costs alone within two decades. But the project failed because the concerned agencies couldn't fabricate high-quality components and equipment. In 1987-1988, India decided to try 'reverse engineering' by leasing from the USSR a Charlie-class nuclear submarine, renamed Chakra, for three years. This too yielded no worthwhile results in design or fabrication. The Soviet Union collapsed in 1991 and the lease wasn't renewed. Finally, in 1998, construction began on the submarine's hull. A basically Russian-designed compact pressurised-water reactor was eventually fitted into the hull after nine years. Meanwhile, the cost meter kept ticking. India has so far spent a humongous Rs 30,000 crores (Rs 300 billion) on the ATV, with virtually no side benefits. This equals the entire budget of the National Rural Employment Guarantee Act last year, which generated 45 million person days of employment. This makes nonsense of rational public-spending priorities. But the government is planning to build 10 nuclear submarines. Work on two has already started. India has also negotiated the lease of yet another Russian submarine, a hunter-killer type, distinct from the Arihant, which is a ballistic-missile launcher. The lease will cost another Rs 350 crores (Rs 3.5 billion) -- although the Navy brass says it's not keen on the hunter submarine. However, will the Arihant give India greater security via nuclear deterrence? Deterrence assumes that nuclear adversaries don't attack each other because they are fully aware of each other's nuclear doctrines, want to avert 'unacceptable damage' from retaliation, and hence will behave rationally at all times. Equally, it assumes there will be no strategic misperceptions or miscalculations, and no accidents whatever. These assumptions don't hold in reality. During the Cold War, there were countless misperceptions and accidents with counter-strikes being averted at the last minute. Weather rockets were confused for missiles. Vessels carrying nuclear weapons collided with one another. The world was lucky that nukes weren't used. There were 20,000 false alerts which could have led to instant retaliation -- despite sophisticated command and control systems on which $6 trillion were spent. In the India-Pakistan case, no such sophisticated systems exist. There's a rich history of miscalculation from 1965, 1990, 1999 and 2001-2002 -- when war almost broke out. Indeed, Kargil [ Images] did happen -- a mid-sized military conflict with more than 40,000 troops. This falsified the deterrence premise that nuclear powers don't fight conventional wars. Clearly, nuclear deterrence is too flawed and unstable a basis on which to build security. Even old warhorses like Robert McNamara, who recently died, came to that conclusion. India will go down that very slippery slope and court disaster while continuing to deprive half its population of minimum needs. Yet there's no limit on how much we'll be asked to spend on the military in the name of the Holy Cow of 'security'. And we're only at the first stage of acquisition of a large arsenal of nuclear weapons and their delivery vehicles, including missiles, aircraft and ships of various description, along with the requisite command and control systems, and elaborate means to protect so-called nuclear assets, which inevitably become a liability. As this column has consistently argued since the Pokharan II blasts of 1998, India's nuclear weapons pursuit is likely to lead to a runaway increase in arms spending -- over and above rising expenditure on conventional weapons. Since 1998, military spending has risen threefold in absolute terms, the highest such increase since Independence. As India builds up its nuclear arsenal, its adversaries will also try to match it or retain their superiority. The real danger is an uncontrolled arms race in which your adversaries, not you, become the decision maker. Throughout the Cold War, India rightly warned against the degenerative and unstable nature of nuclear deterrence and a runaway arms race. It is repeating that historic folly on a continental scale -- and possibly beyond, given India's (and China's) ambitious plans to build a blue-water navy, develop long-range inter-continental ballistic missiles and acquire 'Star Wars'-style ballistic missile defence systems. Today, there's virtually no internal or external restraint on military spending -- witness the 34 per cent spurt in the defence budget in a single year, which will probably go through Parliament without a debate. This cannot be justified in the name of fighting terrorism. You don't need amphibian ships, long-range fighter planes, aircraft carriers and nuclear-capable missiles to combat terrorism. Yet, so low is the accountability of the armed services that they can get away with wild budget increases, which they often don't fully spend. Nothing illustrates this better than the latest CAG report on the acquisition of the Russian aircraft-carrier Admiral Gorshkov. This was first offered in 1994 as a 'free gift' provided India pays for its refitting and buys jetfighters to be put on it deck. A 'fixed price' contract was signed for $974 million. The ship was to be delivered refurbished by August 2008. Soon, Russia demanded an additional $1.2 billion and pushed the delivery date to December 2012. But last year, Russia further raised the bill dramatically to $2.9 billion. India is now negotiating hard, but it's unlikely that the price tag will be under $2.5 billion. Besides, the ship won't even have a 'close-in' weapons system until 2017. According to the CAG report, the supreme, if ugly, irony is that the 'Navy is acquiring a second-hand refitted carrier that has half the lifespan and is 60 percent more expensive than a new one.' A CAG official describes the Gorshkov deal as 'the biggest defence mess-up' ever. The Gorshkov case isn't unique. Other major arms deals, including the French Scorpene submarine (price tag, Rs 18,701 crores/Rs 187.01 billion) and British advanced jet-trainer (cost, Rs 8,120 crores/Rs 81.20 billion), are also marked by allegations of undue favours, huge kickbacks, and dilution of warranty and performance norms. This only underscores the need for greater accountability on the defence services' part and for strict Parliamentary oversight of military contracts. Praful Bidwai From asad_abbasi at hotmail.com Mon Aug 3 18:59:11 2009 From: asad_abbasi at hotmail.com (asad abbasi) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 13:29:11 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan Message-ID: Dear All, Nicholas Kristoff in his NY Times blog poses a serious question about the feudal structure in Pakistan. He is right about the feudal lords- as they are called- and their antics to remain in power. They are power of their own, having their own rules. But can Pakistan allow these personal states within her? But if this is the problem why can government not stop it? They may be because the "land owners" are now powerful politicians. There was once a time in England when only land owners had the right to vote, but it is may not be wrong to say that in a country like Pakistan only land owners have the right to say. Pakistan has a cyclical problem. Politicians can break this feudal structure but that would hurt their politics. Will they cut their own leg for greater good of Pakistan? or Pakistan needs to finds a different solution. Warm Regards, Asad http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/01/feudalism-in-pakistan/?pagemode=print I sometimes wonder if what Pakistan doesn’t really need is a good dose of land reform to break up feudal power. The extraordinary inequities in Pakistan seem not only unjust but also an impediment to both economic growth and national consensus. For those who haven’t been to Pakistan, you should know that in remote areas you periodically run into vast estates — comparable to medieval Europe — in which the landowner runs the town, perhaps operates a private prison in which enemies are placed, and sometimes pretty much enslaves local people through debt bondage, generation after generation. This feudal elite has migrated into politics, where it exerts huge influence. And just as the heartlessness of feudal and capitalist barons in the 19th century created space for Communists, so in Pakistan this same lack of compassion for ordinary people seems to create space for Islamic extremists. There are other answers, of course, such as education, civil society, and the lawyers’ movement. But I wonder if land reform wouldn’t be a big help. Dwight Perkins, the great Harvard economist of development, argued that a crucial factor in the rise of East Asia was the land reform and division in countries like Japan and South Korea after World War II, creating a more equal society. (In Japan, this was done under U.S. auspices: we were much more socialist outside our country than in it.) Likewise, India had its own land reform in 1953, but Pakistan was left out. I’ve often focused on education as the greatest need for Pakistan, but even there the feudal structure is replicated. There are first-rate schools in English for the elite, second-rate schools for the strivers, and execrable schools for the masses. At the bad schools, teachers don’t even bother to show up. This highly stratified system tends to perpetuate an ossified economic and social structure, and creates less room for the country to innovate and build or use human capital. But I’m a novice here. Those of you who know Pakistan much better than I — what do you think? Is the feudal land structure a major part of the problem? And if so, is it so entrenched that it’s not even worth dreaming of land reform? Is it more feasible to chip away at the feudal structure by broadening education? I’m all ears. Let me know what you think. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Messenger: Thanks for 10 great years—enjoy free winks and emoticons. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/ From javedmasoo at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 19:59:22 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:59:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Shiva Sena selling veggies for no-profit Message-ID: Eyeing vote gain, Shiv Sena sells veggies at no-profit-no-loss rates Mon, Aug 3 06:34 AM After the drubbing it received in the recent Lok Sabha polls, the Thane unit of the Shiv Sena is now selling vegetables, at almost half the market rates. The idea is to turn the tide in its favour in the Assembly elections. The party hopes to do that by banking on an issue that is hurting people's pockets — rising veggie prices. In the Lok Sabha elections, the Sena fared poorly in Thane and lost a seat to the NCP. Selling vegetables is an attempt by the party to woo back voters weaned away by Raj Thackeray's MNS. Presence of MNS candidates in the fray was perceived as one reason why the Sena did not do well in the general elections in Thane as well as Mumbai, where it did not win even one seat The move is also aimed at targeting the state government over the soaring vegetable prices in the month of Shravan. Ever since the initiative was inaugurated by Sena executive president Uddhav Thackeray's wife Rashmi on July 27, the party has been selling vegetables. Within the municipal limits of Thane city, Shiv Sena is operating 17 outlets located in, or near, the party offices known as Shakhas. "Vegetables are directly procured from farmers in Pune and Nashik and sold at the cost price. Transportation expenses are borne by Sainiks who have pooled in money for the scheme," said Eknath Shinde, legislator and Sena's Thane district chief. The popularity of the scheme can be gauged from the fact that vegetable stocks are sold out in a matter of hours. The outlets which are the first to receive the supply open at 8 am and others start sale a couple of hours later, and the counters are empty by noon. Cauliflower, which is averaging about Rs 40-44 per kg in the market, is being sold at Rs 10-14 per kg, cabbage at Rs 8-12, carrot at Rs 12, ladyfinger at Rs 20 and capsicum at Rs 20. All agriculture produce has to be sold to wholesalers through the Agriculture Produce Market Committee (APMC) but the party is circumventing the system to keep rates as low as possible. Shinde explained that they are able to sell at almost half the market prices as government agencies and middlemen have been bypassed. When pointed out that as per APMC regulations it is illegal to bring vegetables directly for sale, Shinde said : "Let the (authorities) prevent us from supplying affordable vegetables to people." "The price of vegetables sold by us averages about Rs 12-20 per kg which is nearly half the market price," said a party worker manning the sale counters at Tembi Naka. Shinde said pulses such as red gram (toor dal) and lentil would also be made available at subsidised rates. This initiative has been tailormade for the traditional vote-bank of the Sena, Hindus, particularly people from the Marathi community. Shravan is a month of abstinence from non-vegetarian food in the Hindu calendar, and this period always witnesses a peak in the prices of vegetables. The astronomical hike in the prices of vegetables has been attributed to the poor rainfall. http://in.news.yahoo.com/48/20090803/814/tnl-eyeing-vote-gain-shiv-sena-sells-veg.html From taraprakash at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 20:24:13 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 10:54:13 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] Shiva Sena selling veggies for no-profit References: Message-ID: <016812111D7B4ED787A233E6098682BC@tara> That sounds socialist in nature. I'd like to see some competition there. The way these parties mint money, they can afford to sell them for free. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Javed" To: "sarai list" Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:29 AM Subject: [Reader-list] Shiva Sena selling veggies for no-profit > Eyeing vote gain, Shiv Sena sells veggies at no-profit-no-loss rates > > Mon, Aug 3 06:34 AM > > After the drubbing it received in the recent Lok Sabha polls, the > Thane unit of the Shiv Sena is now selling vegetables, at almost half > the market rates. > > The idea is to turn the tide in its favour in the Assembly elections. > The party hopes to do that by banking on an issue that is hurting > people's pockets — rising veggie prices. > > In the Lok Sabha elections, the Sena fared poorly in Thane and lost a > seat to the NCP. Selling vegetables is an attempt by the party to woo > back voters weaned away by Raj Thackeray's MNS. Presence of MNS > candidates in the fray was perceived as one reason why the Sena did > not do well in the general elections in Thane as well as Mumbai, where > it did not win even one seat > > The move is also aimed at targeting the state government over the > soaring vegetable prices in the month of Shravan. > > Ever since the initiative was inaugurated by Sena executive president > Uddhav Thackeray's wife Rashmi on July 27, the party has been selling > vegetables. Within the municipal limits of Thane city, Shiv Sena is > operating 17 outlets located in, or near, the party offices known as > Shakhas. > > "Vegetables are directly procured from farmers in Pune and Nashik and > sold at the cost price. Transportation expenses are borne by Sainiks > who have pooled in money for the scheme," said Eknath Shinde, > legislator and Sena's Thane district chief. > > The popularity of the scheme can be gauged from the fact that > vegetable stocks are sold out in a matter of hours. The outlets which > are the first to receive the supply open at 8 am and others start sale > a couple of hours later, and the counters are empty by noon. > > Cauliflower, which is averaging about Rs 40-44 per kg in the market, > is being sold at Rs 10-14 per kg, cabbage at Rs 8-12, carrot at Rs 12, > ladyfinger at Rs 20 and capsicum at Rs 20. > > All agriculture produce has to be sold to wholesalers through the > Agriculture Produce Market Committee (APMC) but the party is > circumventing the system to keep rates as low as possible. > > Shinde explained that they are able to sell at almost half the market > prices as government agencies and middlemen have been bypassed. > > When pointed out that as per APMC regulations it is illegal to bring > vegetables directly for sale, Shinde said : "Let the (authorities) > prevent us from supplying affordable vegetables to people." > > "The price of vegetables sold by us averages about Rs 12-20 per kg > which is nearly half the market price," said a party worker manning > the sale counters at Tembi Naka. > > Shinde said pulses such as red gram (toor dal) and lentil would also > be made available at subsidised rates. > > This initiative has been tailormade for the traditional vote-bank of > the Sena, Hindus, particularly people from the Marathi community. > > Shravan is a month of abstinence from non-vegetarian food in the Hindu > calendar, and this period always witnesses a peak in the prices of > vegetables. The astronomical hike in the prices of vegetables has been > attributed to the poor rainfall. > > http://in.news.yahoo.com/48/20090803/814/tnl-eyeing-vote-gain-shiv-sena-sells-veg.html > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From taraprakash at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 20:29:23 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 10:59:23 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] Habib Tanvir's play banned in Chhattisgarh References: <98f331e00908030447i6aa6b520q8fdb4a79e0625c71@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <755A8B0F9D174F43AAF67714FDDC58F6@tara> It is a real treat, any play performed by habib's team is. The MLAs of the state will benefit more by watching them than by wasting state's resources on their "educational" camp at Mount Abu. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" To: "prakash ray" Cc: Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 8:02 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Habib Tanvir's play banned in Chhattisgarh > For all those, like me, who have really enjoyed watching Charandas > Chor, a matter of true shame. But unsurprising, because governments > that sponsor thugs like the Salwa Judum also ban enjoyable pieces of > theatre. > > > On 03-Aug-09, at 5:17 PM, prakash ray wrote: > >> Charandas Chor, the famous play of Habib Saheb is banned by the >> Chhattisgarh >> govt. >> >> http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx? >> sectionName=India&id=ad4622e2-14fa-4758-9560-988d1d07029f&Headline=Chh >> attisgarh+bans+Habib+Tanvir%E2%80%99s+masterpiece+EMCharandas+ChorEM >> >> a true fascist tribute to the master. >> >> PKR >> www.cinemela.youthv.com >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From bawazainab79 at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 20:53:22 2009 From: bawazainab79 at gmail.com (Zainab Bawa) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 20:53:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] On Delhi In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40908030043r5a9ec7e2tba7dabc5b1107a7f@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A6FFCEF.90205@ranadasgupta.com> <3ef603b70907290338n186e9077iae894bf724fed429@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40907290441t50fcf5aan650d4f5f76494293@mail.gmail.com> <4A7194A8.70200@ranadasgupta.com> <65be9bf40907300837o7c532fadx92608edbc143d2a2@mail.gmail.com> <4A7416D8.9070501@ranadasgupta.com> <65be9bf40908030043r5a9ec7e2tba7dabc5b1107a7f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Pheeta, Taha and all, Thanks for continuing the conversation. A few things which come to my mind and I will put them down as I am still thinking: I think there are a few crises that we are facing today, one of them that I can immediately think of is a crises of conceptual handles - do old concepts and categories apply to our present conditions? Even when we think of class, does class exist in the same manner today as Marx spoke of? What class do I bracket a poor landlord and a rich tenant? What class does the municipal clerk belong to given that he also runs a cinema hall in some suburb of Mumbai on land that he was given as a gift? Or for that matter, figures such as junior municipal officers who run chit funds and are involved in complicated financial circuits? How does the category of class account for the several figures I meet each day who imbibe in them more roles than one and who are involved with the city in ways more than one? I think the second crises is that of our understanding of capital and its relationship with the city. And here, I think Taha's point is very valuable - how do we narrate land and money? Are land and money vulgar, naked and ruining the city? I am surrounded by talks of speculation each day. People talk of homes, of assets, of value and of property in various ambiguous ways. My friends from rehab colonies ask me: Is the house where you live in yours or have you rented it? I answer: I lived in a rented apartment. They say: Really? You should just go and get your own place. I say: How can I? EMIs are very expensive to pay and bank loans are like highway robberies. They say: Still, you should manage. It is very important to have your own place. Here, the interpretation of house as place causes me to think about land, about property and all those related categories and then also about the relationships between real estate, land, property, cities and people. I also think about the notion of justice that is implicit in Rana's piece and the implications that our understanding of justice and of law have not only for the city, but also for practice and for theoretical formulations. About a year ago, I began to sit in on the hearings of a land acquisition case in the Karnataka High Court. The case was filed by tenant traders against the Bangalore Metro Rail Corporation (BMRC). Some of the traders had been served with notices for vacating the properties they had occupied and some of the other traders were part of the case because they feared that significant chunks of their properties would be acquired if the metro is constructed overground on their road. In the beginning, I was agitated during each hearing because the case would not proceed and it appeared that the traders were most likely to lose the case. But as the hearings proceeded, we found that the judges were as confused about new legalities, about institutions such as BMRC which are both public and private, and about the status of such public-private institutions. In the subsequent hearings, the judges would openly articulate their confusions. But even as they articulated their confusions, they kept gesturing to each of the contesting parties to produce evidences in particular directions so that they may be able to pronounce a judgment. My experience of these sittings has caused me to re-think the notion of justice. In certain circumstances, the court may not be a dispenser of justice, but that the judges act as arbitrators. What makes their arbitration acceptable and legitimate is our belief that they are operating on the basis of the constitution and other sources of law that we accept as legitimate, absolute and neutral. Yet, the decision of the judges is not final and binding. In the case of land and property, it appears that even after the dispensation of justice and arbitration, there are numerous factors which create/impede the articulation and fulfillment of claims by various claimants. While judgments have been issued on this particular case of the tenant traders, the traders have not given up. They continue to expand their networks of outreach in order to fulfill their claims. I think a final point for today's amblings takes from the above and concerns our own understanding of change and transformation. Certain narratives produce the understanding of change and transformation in terms of a revolution, the film Rang De Basanti comes to my mind here. But the question is whether a revolution is the only means of attaining change and transformation? I think here of Asef Bayat's interesting account of quiet revolution of the ordinary. Bayat talks of how the 1970s revolution in Iran was not, contrary to popular thinking, an expression of outrage of the poor. The poor in fact had their likes for the Shah and they did not necessarily identify with the revolution partly because they did not see how the revolution would serve their daily needs. I also think of Solomon Benjamin's recent piece in the International Journal of Urban and Regional Research (IJURR) on "occupancy urbanism", AbdouMaliq Simon's writing on the "periphery" in the Sarai Frontiers Reader - I continue to probe what change and transformation mean and how they are achieved? There will perhaps be no clear cut answer, but then surely, there will not be one answer only. .... Zainab On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > Dear Rana and Dear All, > > Please forgive me for not making myself clear. > > The point is perhaps, not just limited to real estate, or necessarily > to your text alone but perhaps my reference was to a broader issue - > > Which perhaps relates to creation of narratives about city like Delhi. > > The point being why in the last many decades we, the reader are > prompted to approach the idea of Delhi through what seem like a ready > made stock of characters and stock notions? > > Land being just one of them. > > Let me take this opportunity to expand my thoughts concerning > representation of the idea of Delhi. > > Let me also suggest that there is of course nothing wrong in re-using > previously used, previously crafted stock of characters or notions, > that is perhaps indicative of smart thinking, but I wonder if there > can be novel ways of describing a city, other than by simply deploying > seemingly typecast notions and figures like- clogged roads, the figure > of L'enfant terrible, DDA/ Property Dealer nexus, Nouveau riche and > the figure of a cynical journalist etc > > There seems to be no dearth of literature on Delhi in the public > domain which does not seem to have previously relied on these > typification. > > I wish to re-visit these types, more so, in order to think and > reflect as to why is it that there seems to be rather limited range of > descriptions of the Capital city? I am sure there are more than 'n' > number of ways to read the idea of Delhi? > > Why, for instance, the notion of insight or a suggestion towards an > uncanny element which must be a normative attribute of any form of > writing; seems to be conspicuous by its absence from recent > literature on cities like Delhi? Although I do not know whether this > should be normatively included in any and every form of writing on big > cities. > > For the time being, though, let's leave these questions aside and let > us re-visit some of the above mentioned notions, one by one, to > ascertain for ourselves, how different people, belonging to different > eras which were seemingly unconnected through time and space have > attempted to create a memory for us, towards an idea of Delhi. > > 1. Clogged Roads- > > 1.i . A popular travelogue from Lonely Planet series describes the > Roads of Delhi as thus- > > In a densely populated city such as Delhi, even road space is at a > premium, not just for traffic but also for everything else....[which > is ] shared by bicycles, cycle rickshaws, scooters, motor cycles, auto > rickshaws, carts drawn by horses, bullocks, or the odd, camels, cars, > taxis, vans, trucks, buses, and an occasional elephant. > > [ Horton, P, Plunkett, R and Finlay, H. 2002 Lonely Planet. Getting > around- Metro p. 81] > > 1.ii. When Mark Tully writes, No full stops in India, he describes the > roads of Delhi in 1991, as thus- > > ...the streets of Delhi are nevertheless clogged up Japanese designed > cars and scooters...for the less affluent there are only decrepit, > outdated and fuel inefficient buses quite in capable of providing an > efficient service even if the roads were cleared of them. > > [as cited in Waugh,D 2000. Geography an Integrated Approach p.619] > > > 1.iii. While writing Twilight In Delhi in 1940, Ahmed Ali, tells the > story of Mir Nihal a merchant of Delhi who is grappling with loss of > power post 1857 seige of the city by the British. Ahmed Ali decides to > use the following words, to describe an event thus giving us a view > how these Delhi roads could have appeared.- > > The procession passed, one long unending line of generals, and the > governors and the tommies, and the native chiefs and their retinues, > and soldiery like a slow unending line of ants. > > [Ali, A. 1994. Twilight in Delhi. p 105] > > 2. The figure of L'enfant terrible. aka Bade baap ki bigri hui aulaad. > > 2.i. Sanjeev Nanda appears to one, like a postmetropolis version of > Duryodhana. Duryodhana a mythical character whose pride was > instrumental in the creation of Inderprastha (Delhi ) in the first > place. He was also the one, by the way, who snatched the city from its > 'rightful' owners. Thus turning the then Delhi into a lawless city. > Duryodhana's father was blind to his follies and in the end had to pay > a price for this neglect. > > Like Inderprastha is often described as that which was imagined by an > Asur architect called Maya, so does subsequent descriptions of the > city seems to rely on prevalence of surreal structures. But we deviate > here...therefore we come back to this character of Bade baap ki bigri > hui aulaad aka Baba logs aka L'enfant terrible! > > Apart from Duryodhana, I can think of Aurangzeb, we may call him as an > erstwhile inhabitant of the city, who also had scant regard for the > rules and regulations of the day and was rather interested in doing > what he thought 'fit' . In an urban context what he did was no > different from what people in power do now to Delhi which is to > demolish, erase and subsequently construct. Maybe if some future > historian were to write a text on the history of urban Delhi then we > may have more material to quote from. > > However it does not comes as a surprise that when Mohsin Hamid, for > instance, writes about Lahore in his Moth Smoke, he chooses the name, > Aurangzeb aka Ozi to represent decadence. Ozi by the way, was also > involved in a hit and run accident in 1998 in Lahore, like Nanda in > 1999 in Delhi, and he escapes law by coercing someone less fortunate > than him to take the blame, like Nanda through his family tries to > influence the key witness. > > 2.ii. Then in post Independence India we had Suresh Kumar. > > SK, as we all know, was the son of the Defense Minister of India. > Although SK was not exactly killing people but yes, like Nanda, he > appears as a public hazard in the eyes of quite a few. I, of course > refer to the infamous sex scandal which came to fore when Surya > Magazine broke the story. > > Journalist Rajinder Puri, who in 1978, was the then campaign in charge > of Janta Party had this to write about the incident- > > -A defense ministers son, in a defense dealers car, related papers in > the backseat of the car and the car was used for a romantic rendezvous > - was it right that the son of the defense minister should be so > careless about affairs which could imperil the nations security ? That > set me off !- > > [ http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/specials/proj_tabloid/puri.shtml ] > > 2.iii And who can forget Sanjay Dutt aka Sanju Baba but he belongs to > Bombay doesn't he, so what!! for Delhi did we not have Sanjay Gandhi > aka Sanjay Baba to haunt our collective imagination. > > In what Harsh Sethi cogently describes as an anthropology of power, > Raj Thapar has this to write about Sanjay Baba in All These Years- > > -Sanjay, the son, was so deep in the game of governance, if he > wielded so much power over his mother, the story was far more > terrifying that we had ever thought. Indira had over the last three > years, given in to him in small ways, we had thought. > > [ Thapar, R. 1991. All These Years: a memoir. p. 399 ] > > There's also a section in the book where Raj Thapar writes about a > small but significant incident which leads Nehru to ask Indira about > her son's involvement in alleged incidents of car lifting from the > diplomatic enclave which comes under the purview of Lodhi road police > station. > > During his day, as we all know that Sanjay was deeply passionate about > a range of interests- like borrowing farm lands from friends from > Gurgaon to play spanner-spanner-in-the-works , or fly planes at > fantastically low levels so that, being the dutiful husband he was, he > could assist his wife by drying all the clothes hung in the backyard. > And Yes, when he was free during evenings, he would easily drop by > Trukman Gate in his Ford Jeep to evangelize about vasectomy to the > illiterate hordes of Islam. > > And now! during the elections, we had to sit patiently when HIS son, > blessed be his soul, Varun, started to evangelize on the fine art of > plucking hands out of illiterate hordes of Islam if they were to > behave improperly. > > It seems, In Delhi, every now and then, we pay homage to a myth, which > not the myth of Rama but that of Duryodhana. To keep his memory alive > a son has to be sacrificed in the public consciousness. His fall has > to become a fable. > > It escapes me that what's so transformative or alluring or symbolic > about this character that it needs to be mentioned, analyzed and > written about again and again, every time one has to write about > Delhi? > > 3. DDA/ Property Dealer nexus. > > 3.i. Who can forget Dibakar Banerjee's excellent film on urban > transformations around Delhi called- Khosla ka Ghosla, which was > released in 2006? > > The film was about Delhi, about the change in housing sector, about > the promise of a new wealth and the desire to fulfill a long cherished > dream of possessing land, of owning and building a house. And the film > was a story of lives of all those characters which were caught in this > conundrum. > > Did the character of Kishan Khorana, not signify- the corruption, the > impropriety, the obscene wealth, the (ab)use of power, the way is > which these lands are coerced from owners? Did the character Asif > Iqbal not point towards the methods or processes which are employed to > acquire legitimacy of land? > > [ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0466460/plotsummary ] > > But was it any new or was it an old story excellently told? > > 3.ii. Or for that matter one could think of an eminently forgettable > cinematic text like Jugaad, which was directed by Anand Kumar and > released in 2009. > > The film story revolves around municipal corporation of Delhi's > inspired 'sealing drive' and how an advertising agency owner tries to > find his way through a maze of characters involving property dealers, > corrupt MCD officials, to reclaim the land where his agency one stood. > > [ http://www.imdb.com/news/ni0677187/ ] > > 3.iii. At one level real estate for housing is a simple game. It > relates to the stock. Demand versus Supply. If there more demand and > less supply. There's bound to be speculation. Various people will > enter the speculative market hoping to make a quick buck. > > Consider this piece on Delhi's housing situation 25 years ago. > Reading an essay written by Arun Kumar in EPW in 1982 on the eve of > Asian Games in Delhi and then juxtaposing it stuff written on > contemporary Delhi one is left with a feeling as if nothing much > happened in all these years. That the city has not evolved. One > wonders if that is the case? > > - Delhi along with other urban centers of the country have been > experiencing a phenomenal boon in real estate prices since 1977. In > the capital city the increase has been particularly steep. > notwithstanding the existence of DDA, an official agency charged with > the planned development of the Union Territory- > > Later in the essay Arun Kumar adds, > > DDA seems to be bending its rules to favor builders... in fact it is > believed, that most conglomerates of brokers, builders and financiers > in Delhi are overextended and are unable to make full payments to the > DDA for the purchase made in previous years. > > [ Kumar, A. 1982. Economic and Political Weekly. Real Estate as > Business. p 1984 ] > > 4. Nouveau riche > > 4.i. For someone like, Sumanta Banerjee Nouveau riches of India about > SIX years ago, in 2003 stood for, a 'small transparent cocoon'. > Commenting on the then state of affairs, she says, 'that small > transparent cocoon of the Indian Big Rich is bursting at the seams, > with Ferrari's and BMW's, farm houses and malls, exclusive townships > and wine picnics, mega bashes and show biz weddings. > > It's an incestuous world of a symbiotic relationship, between demands > for luxury goods, and five star privileges, by a minuscule portion of > India, and their supply by the handful of rich manufacturers and > producers who are everlastingly creating newer and newer demands. > > [ Banerjee, S. 2003. Economic and Political Weekly. Better 'Nouveau' > than Never. p 5145-5146 ] > > 4.ii Charles W Pratt. reviewing a Naipaul's book in The Rotarian in > 1991 almost EGIHTEEN years ago has this to offer- > > -Because of industrialization, and the green revolution in rural > areas, a new class of Nouveau riche persons are emerging, and these > persons are exposed to the first time to university education, > comfortable urban life, stylish living, and western influences- > materialistic comforts...At the moment things are chaotic here. > > [ Pratt,C.W. Mar 1991. The Rotarian. Vol. 158. No. 3. p.4 ] > > 4.iii. An article contributed by Local Self Government Institute > Bombay describes the 'new' recipients of redistribution wealth in > 1978- > > The nouveau riche in the country are generally exhibitionists. One can see > them > in the posh residential colonies of New Delhi, Bombay, Madras, Calcutta > > > [ Quarterly journal of the Local Self-Government Institute (Bombay).‎ - > Page 20 > by Local Self-Government Institute (Bombay), All-India Institute of > Local Self-Government - Political Science - 1978 ] > > 5. The figure of a cynical journalist. > > 5.i In 1983 -Jaane Bhi Do Yaroon- was released, where the trope a > cynical journalist was used both in an ironical manner by the presence > of two cynically naive photo-journalists who wanted to expose an > instance of builder/politician nexus related to an urban development > project and their calculative editor who makes a bargain in the end > with the very builders/politicians who she was supposed to expose. But > of course this was related to Bombay and not Delhi. > > > 5.ii Then in 1986, just three years later, a film called, New Delhi > Times was released which had Shashi Kapoor playing the character of an > oxymoronically cynical yet hopeful journalist called, Vikas Pande. In > New Delhi Times, Vikas's job was to hold the proverbial mirror to a > rapidly degrading Delhi political and social elite. He is > disillusioned in the end because the power elite do little to back him > up. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > The point being what do these stock descriptions mean to us? What is > this idea of a city that we are asked to conjure or to interpret? Why > does it appear as if we are persuaded to consume this dominant notion > about the city? What makes extremely perceptive professional writers, > repeat stock notions about Delhi decade after decade after decade by > re-packaging perhaps a torpidity of imagination as a novelty'? > > Does writing about Delhi in a particular manner by using readily > available - types- not reduce, a remarkable city to, 'a predictable > city'? > > Warm regards > > Taha > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Zainab Bawa Ph.D. Student and Independent Researcher Gaining Ground ... http://zainab.freecrow.org http://cis-india.org/research/cis-raw/histories-of-the-internet/transparency-and-politics From murali.chalam at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 22:13:14 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 22:13:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The 64th Anniversary Of USA Terrorism Enlightened By The Wisdom of Nonviolence By Eileen Fleming (fwd from Countercurrents.org) In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908030407s2eb9f026p98981c5e021c2796@mail.gmail.com> References: <1f9180970908030122m1b1912dq3318dd0d70f331f5@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908030407s2eb9f026p98981c5e021c2796@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908030943p2f441de9k26b5bfd32f904050@mail.gmail.com> And today the media says that Manmohan has been cheated because the SC of Pak has freed Sayeed. Regards, V Murali On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > Sir, > are you not forgetting the "carpet bombing " of daisy cutters in > Afghanistan, or to that matter the killing of innocents to introduce > democracy in Iraq searching the imaginary "weapons of Mass destruction" or > to that matter the popular day of Manmohini Singh with deal of N-deal > loosing the trust of the nation winning the trust with money bags.? > > Regards, > Rajen. > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Venugopalan K M >wrote: > > > The 64th Anniversary Of USA Terrorism Enlightened By The Wisdom of > > Nonviolence > > > > By Eileen Fleming > > > > 02 August, 2009 > > Countercurrents.org > > > > This August 6th and 9th mark the 64th anniversary of the most brutal > > acts of terrorism upon innocent people; America's atomic bombings of > > Hiroshima and Nagasaki. > > > > On Armistice Day, 1948 General Omar Nelson Bradley warned, "We live in > > a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants, in a world that has > > achieved brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience. We have > > solved the mystery of the atom and forgotten the lessons of the Sermon > > on The Mount. We know more about war than we know about peace, more > > about dying than we know about living." > > > > In 1995, from Ashkelon Prison, Mordechai Vanunu noted: "A radioactive > > cloud consumed rubbed out Hiroshima...A live nuclear test sentenced > > you. A nuclear laboratory…children women trees animals in and under a > > nuclear mushroom…burning… burned…flattened to ground radioactive > > ash-Hiroshima...Nuclear weapons gamblers win against you…Hollywood > > doesn't know you - you are not a Jewish Holocaust." [1] > > > > A little history: > > > > At 2:45 AM, on August 6, 1945, an American B-29 bomber flew north from > > Tinian Island toward Japan. Three and a half hours later, the Enola > > Gay dropped "Little Boy" an 8,900-pound atomic weapon upon civilians > > in Hiroshima and leveled almost 90% of the city. On August 9, "Fat > > Man" was dropped on Nagasaki, and one third of that city was > > destroyed. > > > > "Little Boy" was fuelled by highly enriched uranium-235 and generated > > a destructive force of about 15 kilotons—the equivalent of 15,000 tons > > of TNT. "Fat Man" consisted of a plutonium core surrounded by high > > explosives wired to explode simultaneously and yielded a 22 kiloton > > explosion. > > > > As a child, I could not comprehend how my country could cold bloodedly > > target and murder Japanese citizens in order to 'save' American lives, > > which was the lame response I always received from every adult I > > questioned as to why after what we did to Hiroshima did we do it again > > to Nagasaki? > > > > If THAT DAY, we call 9/11 taught us anything, it should be that > > America's nuclear arsenal cannot defeat 'terrorism' or provide > > security from the actions of a few violent mad men who target and > > murder innocent ones. > > > > American money is imprinted with "IN GOD WE TRUST" but reality is we > > have become a nation of hypocrites, for by our foreign policy we > > expose that we live by the sword. > > > > America has a nuclear arsenal of over 10,000 weapons and nearly 2,000 > > remain on hair-trigger alert ever since the end of the Cold War. > > > > An estimated 150 – 240 tactical nuclear weapons remain based in 5 NATO > > countries and the United States is the only country with nuclear > > weapons deployed on foreign soil. > > > > American taxpayers provide over $54 billion annually to maintain > > WMD's, which is but a drop in the bucket of the overall U.S. military > > spending. The U.S. is also a co-conspirator in international nuclear > > apartheid and major collaborator in Israel's INEFFECTIVE policy of > > nuclear ambiguity. > > > > In April 2004, and just three days after Vanunu was released from 18 > > years in jail for providing the photographic proof and telling the > > truth about Israel's clandestine seven story underground WMD Program > > in the Negev, Uri Avnery wrote: > > > > "Everybody understands that he has no more secrets. What can a > > technician know after 18 years in jail, during which technology has > > advanced with giant steps? > > > > "But gradually it becomes clear what the security establishment is > > really afraid of. Vanunu is in a position to expose the close > > partnership with the United States in the development of Israel's > > nuclear armaments. > > > > "This worries Washington so much, that the man responsible in the > > State Department for 'arms control', Under-Secretary John Bolton, has > > come to Israel in person for the occasion. Vanunu, it appears, can > > cause severe damage to the mighty super-power. > > > > "The Americans, it seems, are very worried. The Israeli security > > services have to dance to their tune. The world must be prevented by > > all available means from hearing, from the lips of a credible witness, > > that the Americans are full partners in Israel's nuclear arms program, > > while pretending to be the world's sheriff for the prevention of > > nuclear proliferation."[2] > > > > On July 29, 2009, Archbishop Edwin F. O’Brien of Baltimore gave a > > keynote talk at the first Deterrence Symposium, hosted by U.S. > > Strategic Command at Offutt Air Force Base in Nebraska. > > > > He said, "Our world and its leaders must stay focused on the > > destination of a nuclear-weapons-free world and on the concrete steps > > that lead there…[and] that deterrence, in the words of the U.S. > > bishops, is not 'a long-term basis for peace' …the spread of nuclear > > weapons and technology to other nations, and the threat of nuclear > > terrorism, which cannot be deterred with nuclear weapons, point to the > > need to move beyond nuclear deterrence as rapidly as > > possible…Religious leaders, prominent officials, and other people of > > goodwill who support a nuclear-weapons-free world are not naïve about > > the task ahead. They know the path will be difficult and will require > > determined political leadership, strong public support, and the > > dedicated skills of many capable leaders and technical experts. But > > difficult is not impossible.” [3] > > > > The Archbishop outlined several concrete steps toward total nuclear > > disarmament supported by the Catholic Church, including the Nuclear > > Test Ban Treaty, negotiations on a Fissile Material Cut-Off Treaty, > > and the revision of military doctrines of nuclear weapon states to > > “renounce the first use of nuclear weapons” and “declare they will not > > be used against non-nuclear threats.”[Ibid] > > > > In Hiroshima on May 2008, Nobel Peace Prize Laureate, Mairead Maguire > said: > > > > "We live in an insecure, uncertain world; it is also a time of > > opportunity. It is a time to put aside many of the old ways and with > > creativity and imagination, develop new thinking, ideas, institutions, > > etc. Young people and women will help this process; they know that > > Nuclear weapons belong to the cold war thinking, and can never be > > used. To do so, would be immoral, illogical and destroy the > > Environment. > > > > "They know our real problems, are: Poverty, Environment, unethical > > globalization, abuse of Human Rights and International Laws, gender > > inequality, ethnical/political conflict, State and paramilitary acts > > of terror…They know that spending trillions on weapons that can never > > be used, while each day over 30,000 children die of preventable > > disease, is immoral and unacceptable. > > > > "We are all aware that we are living in an increasing Culture of > > violence, and if we are to survive we need to build a Culture of > > Non-violence. Choosing not to kill another human being is the greatest > > contribution each of us can make to peace. This is not a hard choice > > when through prayer, meditation, morality, or logic, we come to > > realize that our lives are sacred as is the life of all our brothers > > and sisters, and there are always alternatives to violence which work. > > Human beings are evolving and there is a new consciousness that we > > must choose non-violence and build strong relationships and > > community." [4] > > > > On May 17, 2009, Mairead prevailed on seventeen Nobel laureates to > > sign a letter called the Hiroshima-Nagasaki Declaration. Her friend, > > author and Jesuit priest John Dear wrote of that day: > > > > "Released in Hiroshima, it calls upon world leaders, and all people, > > to eliminate nuclear weapons. And it warns that unless humanity fails > > in that endeavor, 'the horrors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki' will be > > repeated. Such weapons, [Mairead] says, belong to the tragic past. > > They belong to a time when the world lacked the wisdom to realize that > > each culture needs the other to survive. > > > > "Governments which still hold such weapons violate the prohibition of > > war in the UN charter. But more than that, she says, they’re operating > > anachronistically. They’re out of touch with the insights of the > > times. Nowadays our enemies aren’t across the border. The enemies of > > humanity today are poverty, environmental destruction, militarism, and > > war. > > > > "Our security nowadays lies in nonviolence and love. She insists that > > we all need to heed the wisdom of nonviolence and apply it > > institutionally, internationally, globally and concluded in The Vision > > of Peace, 'Everyone of us has a role to play in the creation of a new > > culture of nonviolence.'" [5] > > > > 2009 is the final year in the United Nations Decade of Creating a > > Culture of Nonviolence for All the Children of the World. America is > > on the record in the UN as abstaining from voting because to support > > such an initiative would make it "too hard for us to go to war." > > > > Many Americans live under the delusion that the USA is a Christian > > nation. If that were true, we would lead the way in nuclear > > disarmament and abolish war. > > > > John Dear also wrote: > > > > "Contrary to what the Pentagon tells us, that our God is not a god of > > war, but the God of peace; not a god of injustice, but the God of > > justice; not a god of vengeance and retaliation, but the God of > > compassion and mercy; not a god of violence, but the God of > > non-violence; not a god of death, but the living God of life. > > > > "[And then] we discover a new image of God. As we begin to imagine the > > peace and non-violence of God; we learn to worship the God of peace > > and non-violence; and in the process, become people of peace and > > non-violence. > > > > "The one thing we can say for sure about Jesus is that he practiced > > active, public, creative non-violence. He called us to love our > > neighbors; to show compassion toward everyone; to seek justice for the > > poor; to forgive everyone; to put down the sword; to take up the cross > > in the struggle for justice and peace; to lay down our lives, to risk > > our lives if necessary, in love for all humanity, and most of all, to > > love our enemies. His last words to the community, to the church, to > > us, as the soldiers dragged him away, could not be clearer or more to > > the point: "Put down the sword." > > > > "That's it. We are not allowed to kill. That's why they run away; they > > realize he is serious about non-violence…Jesus dies on the cross > > saying, "The violence stops here in my body, which is given for you. > > You are forgiven, but from now on, you are not allowed to kill: > > > > "Violence doesn't work. War doesn't work. Violence in response to > > violence always leads to further violence. Those who live by the sword > > will die by the sword. Those who live by the bomb, the gun, the > > nuclear weapon, will die by bombs, guns and nuclear weapons. You reap > > what you sow. The means are the ends. What goes around comes around. > > War can not stop terrorism because war is terrorism. War only sows the > > seeds for future wars. > > > > "Underneath this culture of war and injustice is a sophisticated > > spirituality of violence, a spirituality of war, a spirituality of > > empire, a spirituality of injustice that has nothing to do with the > > living God or the Gospel of Jesus. [Ibid] > > > > Jesus is best known as The Prince of Peace and when he told Nicodemus, > > that you must be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven, he was not > > talking about an emotional high, but a TRANSFORMATION of heart and > > mind to wake up and see The Divine in ALL people and all of creation. > > > > Every August 6th in the Eastern Orthodox, Catholic, and Anglican > > churches, there is a celebration of the Feast of the Transfiguration > > of Jesus, an event reported in the synoptic gospels in which Jesus > > became radiant having undergone a metamorphosis; a transformation. > > > > In 2008, at the National Press Club, Rev. Dr. John Chryssavgis, > > Theological Advisor to the Ecumenical Patriarch on Environmental > > Issues, Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America addressed President > > Bush's agenda known as COMPLEX TRANSFORMATION: > > > > "The question is not how much more sophisticated our plants and > > weapons can become, but how serious we are as a nation to lead the > > world with an alternative vision which interprets power differently > > and promotes peaceful coexistence globally. > > > > "Complex Transformation is the Bush administration proposed plan to > > restructure the nation's nuclear weapons infrastructure. The > > administration's goal is to consolidate existing nuclear facilities > > while increasing the capacity to produce material for new nuclear > > weapons. > > > > "According to a report jointly released by the Energy Department (DOE) > > on January 10, 2008, the administration seeks an annual production > > capacity of 80 plutonium pits (read: triggers for new nuclear bombs) > > as a result of the transformation. > > > > "The main justification for the program is the perceived need for a > > more adaptable and responsive nuclear infrastructure to react to > > unnamed future threats."[6] > > > > The Wisdom of Nonviolence > > > > "The God of peace is never glorified by human violence… The radical > > truth of reality is that we are all one." –Thomas Merton > > > > Gandhi's non-violence was a political tactic that evolved from the > > inner realization of spiritual unity within himself. Gandhi studied > > all the world's religions and after attending many churches, he > > remarked that Christianity was a great religion and all Christians > > should "TRY IT!" > > > > The problem is not with Christianity, but that too few who claim to be > > have taken The Sermon on The Mount as their manifesto and live lives > > that express that God is Love and God Loves All. > > > > "Love is not the starving of whole populations. Love is not the > > bombardment of open cities. Love is not killing......Our manifesto is > > the Sermon on the Mount, which means that we will try to be > > peacemakers." -Dorothy Day > > > > "The wisdom of non-violence teaches that war is not the way to follow > > Jesus. War is not the will of God. War is never justified. War is > > never blessed by God. War is not endorsed by any religion. War is the > > very definition of mortal sin. War is demonic, evil, anti-human, > > anti-life, anti-God, and anti-Christ." [7] > > > > "In all of earth’s sixty-five-million-year history, we are living in > > the most dangerous of times. The fact that a bomb was dropped on > > Hiroshima and two hundred thousand lives were vaporized within twenty > > minutes has not prevented man from dreaming up more ways to fill space > > with weapons of mass destruction. We were not created for militarism, > > but to turn our swords into plowshares. We have arrived here today by > > no accident. We have been summoned by the universe to claim the > > highest common ground. As the Dali Lama said, the radicalism of our > > age is to be compassionate human beings. We have been called to bring > > love and compassion back into the equation and assist others to > > connect with the deepest parts of themselves. Now is the time to > > realize, as never before, that when any of us suffer, we all suffer. > > All life is interconnected, interdependent, and greatly loved by the > > creator, the sustainer of the universe. We are called by love, for > > love, and to love.”- Franciscan Fr. Louis Vitale, July 20, 2005, > > Berkeley, California at TIKKUN’s first annual conference for spiritual > > progressives. [8] > > > > From Ashkelon prison in 1987, Mordechai Vanunu asked: > > > > "Any country, which manufactures and stocks nuclear weapons, is first > > of all endangering its own citizens. This is why the citizens must > > confront their government and warn it that it has no right to expose > > them to this danger. Because, in effect, the citizens are being held > > hostage by their own government, just as if they have been hijacked > > and deprived of their freedom and threatened…when governments develop > > nuclear weapons without the consent of their citizens - and this is > > true in most cases - they are violating the basic rights of their > > citizens, the basic right not to live under constant threat of > > annihilation…Is any government qualified and authorized to produce > > such weapons?" > > > > On April 5, 2009, President Obama stood on the world stage amongst > > thousands of flag-waving Czechs and spoke of good humor, home town > > Chicago, the will of the people over tanks and guns, old conflicts, > > revolution, moral leadership as the most powerful weapon, iron > > curtains that fell and the state of 21st century nuclear weapons: > > > > "We are here today because enough people ignored the voices who told > > them that the world could not change. We're here today because of the > > courage of those who stood up and took risks to say that freedom is a > > right for all people, no matter what side of a wall they live on, and > > no matter what they look like. We are here today because the simple > > and principled pursuit of liberty and opportunity shamed those who > > relied on the power of tanks and arms to put down the will of a > > people. > > > > "Some argue that the spread of these weapons cannot be stopped, cannot > > be checked -– that we are destined to live in a world where more > > nations and more people possess the ultimate tools of destruction. > > Such fatalism is a deadly adversary, for if we believe that the spread > > of nuclear weapons is inevitable, then in some way we are admitting to > > ourselves that the use of nuclear weapons is inevitable. > > > > "As the only nuclear power to have used a nuclear weapon, the United > > States has a moral responsibility to act…It will take patience and > > persistence. But now we, too, must ignore the voices who tell us that > > the world cannot change. We have to insist, "Yes, we can." > > > > "There is violence and injustice in our world that must be confronted. > > We must confront it by standing together as free nations, as free > > people. I know that a call to arms can stir the souls of men and women > > more than a call to lay them down. But that is why the voices for > > peace and progress must be raised together. > > > > "Let us honor our past by reaching for a better future. Let us bridge > > our divisions, build upon our hopes, and accept our responsibility to > > leave this world more prosperous and more peaceful than we found it. > > Together we can do it. > > > > "Words must mean something [and] violence and injustice must be > > confronted by standing together as free nations, as free people…[and] > > Human destiny will be what we make of it."[9] > > > > To this day, the USA and Israel claim to be peace seekers and > democracies. > > > > "Israel is a not a democracy but is an Ethnocracy, meaning a country > > run and controlled by a national group with some democratic elements > > but set up with Jews in control and structured to keep them in > > control.”-Jeff Halper, American Israeli, Founder and Coordinator of > > ICAHD/Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions and a Noble Peace > > Prize Nominee for 2006. > > > > To this day Vanunu remains an open air prisoner captive in occupied > > east Jerusalem denied the right to leave the Jewish State. What > > Vanunu's Freedom of Speech trial exposed since it began on January 25, > > 2006 is that the Israeli SECURITY System controls the Israeli Ministry > > of Justice. [Learn more: Vanunu Archives @ WeAreWideAwake.org] > > > > To this day, Tel Aviv persists to attempt to deflect its egregious > > transgressions of international law and human rights abuses aided and > > abetted by well funded publicity campaigns, an AIPAC beholden Congress > > and an American media that has failed at its commission to seek and > > report all sides of a story when in comes to the now 42 years of > > military occupation of Palestine. > > > > In April 1999, thirty-six members of the House of Representatives > > signed a letter calling for Vanunu's release from prison because they > > believed "we have a duty to stand up for men and women like Mordechai > > Vanunu who dare to articulate a brighter vision for humanity." > > > > President Clinton responded with a public statement expressing concern > > for Vanunu and the need for Israel and other non-parties to the > > Non-Proliferation Treaty to adhere to it and accept IAEA safeguards. > > > > However, ever since the silence had been deafening, until hope > > resurrected in Prague: > > > > "Words must mean something [and] violence and injustice must be > > confronted by standing together as free nations, as free people…Human > > destiny will be what we make of it."-President Obama > > > > "You cannot talk like sane men around a peace table while the atomic > > bomb itself is ticking beneath it. Do not treat the atomic bomb as a > > weapon of offense; do not treat it as an instrument of the police. > > Treat the bomb for what it is: the visible insanity of a civilization > > that has ceased...to obey the laws of life."- Lewis Mumford, 1946 > > > > "Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think > > we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends...I believe that as soon > > as people want peace in the world they can have it. The only trouble > > is they are not aware they can get it…You're just left with yourself > > all the time, whatever you do anyway. You've got to get down to your > > own God in your own temple. It's all down to you, mate...All we are > > saying is give peace a chance...All you need is love...Imagine all the > > people living life in peace. You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not > > the only one. I hope someday you'll join us, and the world will be as > > one...Reality leaves a lot to the imagination."-John Lennon > > > > "If you are not apart of the solution; you are apart of the > > problem."-Eldridge Cleaver > > > > Learn more and please and thanks for doing something: > > > > http://www.paxchristiusa.org/newsletters/ > > October2008NewsletterWeb.pdf > > > > http://www.wearewideawake.org/index.php? > > option=com_content&task=view&id=660&Itemid=175 > > > > 1. http://vanunu.com/poems/mvpoemhiroshima.html > > > > 2. http://www.fromoccupiedpalestine.org > > /taxonomy/term/226 > > > > 3. www.usccb.org/sdwp/international/n. The full text of Archbishop > > O’Brien’s talk, “Nuclear Weapons and Moral Questions: The Path to > > Zero,” uclearzero.shtml. > > > > 4. http://peacepeople.com > > > > 5. http://www.fatherjohndear.org/articles > > /Nobel_Laureates.html > > > > 6. http://www.faithfulsecurity.org/ > > html/complex_transformation.html > > > > 7. http://www.fatherjohndear.org/speeches > > /thomas_merton_wisdom.htm > > > > 8. eileen fleming, KEEP HOPE ALIVE, page 156 > > > > 9. http://wearewideawake.org/index.php?option=com_ > > content&task=view&id=1247&Itemid=219 > > > > Eileen Fleming, A Feature Correspondent for Arabisto.com and Founder > > of WeAreWideAwake.org Author of "Keep Hope Alive" and "Memoirs of a > > Nice Irish American 'Girl's' Life in Occupied Territory"Producer "30 > > Minutes with Vanunu" and "13 Minutes with Vanunu" > > > > > > > > -- > > http://venukm.blogspot.com > > > > http://www.shelfari.com/kmvenuannur > > > > http://kmvenuannur.livejournal.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Rajen. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From murali.chalam at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 22:19:05 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 22:19:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Shiva Sena selling veggies for no-profit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4eab87870908030949k3604575dk876ce2d2362d18c3@mail.gmail.com> Dont tell me that they ask for religion before they sell the produce to the end users. Dont also tell me that only Hindus want to avail the cost benefit and others dont go to the market to by those vegetables. Regards, V Murali On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Javed wrote: > Eyeing vote gain, Shiv Sena sells veggies at no-profit-no-loss rates > > Mon, Aug 3 06:34 AM > > After the drubbing it received in the recent Lok Sabha polls, the > Thane unit of the Shiv Sena is now selling vegetables, at almost half > the market rates. > > The idea is to turn the tide in its favour in the Assembly elections. > The party hopes to do that by banking on an issue that is hurting > people's pockets — rising veggie prices. > > In the Lok Sabha elections, the Sena fared poorly in Thane and lost a > seat to the NCP. Selling vegetables is an attempt by the party to woo > back voters weaned away by Raj Thackeray's MNS. Presence of MNS > candidates in the fray was perceived as one reason why the Sena did > not do well in the general elections in Thane as well as Mumbai, where > it did not win even one seat > > The move is also aimed at targeting the state government over the > soaring vegetable prices in the month of Shravan. > > Ever since the initiative was inaugurated by Sena executive president > Uddhav Thackeray's wife Rashmi on July 27, the party has been selling > vegetables. Within the municipal limits of Thane city, Shiv Sena is > operating 17 outlets located in, or near, the party offices known as > Shakhas. > > "Vegetables are directly procured from farmers in Pune and Nashik and > sold at the cost price. Transportation expenses are borne by Sainiks > who have pooled in money for the scheme," said Eknath Shinde, > legislator and Sena's Thane district chief. > > The popularity of the scheme can be gauged from the fact that > vegetable stocks are sold out in a matter of hours. The outlets which > are the first to receive the supply open at 8 am and others start sale > a couple of hours later, and the counters are empty by noon. > > Cauliflower, which is averaging about Rs 40-44 per kg in the market, > is being sold at Rs 10-14 per kg, cabbage at Rs 8-12, carrot at Rs 12, > ladyfinger at Rs 20 and capsicum at Rs 20. > > All agriculture produce has to be sold to wholesalers through the > Agriculture Produce Market Committee (APMC) but the party is > circumventing the system to keep rates as low as possible. > > Shinde explained that they are able to sell at almost half the market > prices as government agencies and middlemen have been bypassed. > > When pointed out that as per APMC regulations it is illegal to bring > vegetables directly for sale, Shinde said : "Let the (authorities) > prevent us from supplying affordable vegetables to people." > > "The price of vegetables sold by us averages about Rs 12-20 per kg > which is nearly half the market price," said a party worker manning > the sale counters at Tembi Naka. > > Shinde said pulses such as red gram (toor dal) and lentil would also > be made available at subsidised rates. > > This initiative has been tailormade for the traditional vote-bank of > the Sena, Hindus, particularly people from the Marathi community. > > Shravan is a month of abstinence from non-vegetarian food in the Hindu > calendar, and this period always witnesses a peak in the prices of > vegetables. The astronomical hike in the prices of vegetables has been > attributed to the poor rainfall. > > > http://in.news.yahoo.com/48/20090803/814/tnl-eyeing-vote-gain-shiv-sena-sells-veg.html > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 22:32:44 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 22:32:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The 64th Anniversary Of USA Terrorism Enlightened By The Wisdom of Nonviolence By Eileen Fleming (fwd from Countercurrents.org) In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908030943p2f441de9k26b5bfd32f904050@mail.gmail.com> References: <1f9180970908030122m1b1912dq3318dd0d70f331f5@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908030407s2eb9f026p98981c5e021c2796@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908030943p2f441de9k26b5bfd32f904050@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Correction. The SC has postponed the case indefinitely, in response to the resignation of Punjab province Advocate General. It's one thing to express one's perception on any news or happening around the world, and quite different when one starts creating news. Regards Rakesh From murali.chalam at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 22:37:39 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 22:37:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: <341380d00907310144vbcb4d37sf40d6bd434ffc18@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00907310144vbcb4d37sf40d6bd434ffc18@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908031007g4737eb24wf652f90c610ffcd@mail.gmail.com> Thre is no reinvention. It is just the attempt to discover what is there for millions of years. In the what is "way of living", ther is no permission required to act and say what one feels. All it says is what you sow so you reap. It is left to the individuals to act in a manner which does not affect others in any manner. Regards, V Murali On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:14 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear all, > we have a bunch of reinvented hindus. They do not understand the fact that > even the scriptures do not permit them to be so. therefore, please do not > be shocked at these statements or provocation. because at the end of day > they know it very well that given the kind of governance that we live > under, > they can claim such things and get away with. no one would come after them. > had it been been a person from some other community, they would humiliated > them (with references to their surnames or upbringing). they have taken > this > upon themselves that they only know what other communities are upto. and > what they are doing is a mere reaction, so its allowed. > let me tell you the worst part. this list has a moderator who doesnt have a > say. so there is a personal request to boycott all those who have been > trying to support the hardening of the sectarian identity and promote such > reactionaries. it would be nice if the moderator can have a word here. > -thanks > anupam > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Pawan Durani >wrote: > > > Dear Rakesh , > > > > I had posted a link [ www.thekashmir.wordpress.com ] and posted pictures > > of > > rare Hindu temples in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir . > > > > I do not understand why does these picture provoke somebody ? These > > pictures > > are for ones one imagination and understanding ..... > > > > Pawan > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:51 PM, Rakesh Iyer > > wrote: > > > > > Dear Rajen ji > > > > > > I don't wish to be secular, I would rather leave that to you and others > > on > > > the forum on their choice to be secular or not. Secondly, by stating > that > > > Muslims are zombies, what do you wish to convey? > > > > > > Infact, none of you: Pawan ji, Murali ji, Rajen ji, or Vedavati ji > > (anybody > > > else in this team is also welcome) have answered one simple question: > > > > > > Yes, the temples were destroyed by the Mughals or by other Islamic > kings. > > > What should we do about that? Should we repair and renovate the > temples? > > > Should we go and destroy mosques equal in no. to the no of temples > > > destroyed? Should we kill Muslims or convert them into Hinduism by > force? > > > Should we rape Muslim women because Hindu women may have been raped in > > the > > > past? Should we declare Muslims to be 'traitors' and 'anti-nationals' > and > > > thereby exterminate them? Or should we declare a national policy that > > > 'Muslims are not to be trusted in public space or personal relations'? > Or > > > something else? > > > > > > What should we do about that? At least come to the point. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Rakesh > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 22:46:26 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 22:46:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The 64th Anniversary Of USA Terrorism Enlightened By The Wisdom of Nonviolence By Eileen Fleming (fwd from Countercurrents.org) In-Reply-To: References: <1f9180970908030122m1b1912dq3318dd0d70f331f5@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908030407s2eb9f026p98981c5e021c2796@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908030943p2f441de9k26b5bfd32f904050@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Anyways, the Indian media is not totally bad, but an in-depth understanding of any issue is of utmost importance, which most of our media people seem to lack. In particular, our TV media, consisting of the who's who of the stupids-cum-bosses hanging their noses around, seems to show very clearly. And then there are people following them closely on the newspaper circuit as well. Even programs which could be used to understand issues properly, like 'The Big Fight' invariably turn into programs of pointing fingers simply and bak-bak-bak-bak-bak....and grand posturing too...... May be our TV media and the newsprint media (referring to those who only indulge in elitist concerns, and then shoot off against people-based schemes without understanding the logic of using them), should read books of development economists like Amartya Sen (he has won the Nobel Prize, so he may not be a fool to have won it I believe).There are others in the line as well, like Madhav Gadgil (expert on environment), Aruna Roy (RTI), Bina Agrawal (issues of gender rights), Muhammad Yunus (micro-finance through Grameen Bank, another Nobel Prize winner), Swami Agnivesh (understanding about Hindu religion or 'dharma', though it's not that close a people's concern according to me, even then), Jean Dreze (Right to Food, along with others of course), Kaushik Basu and Abhijit Banerjee (professors of economics in universities outside India, who actually have contributed a lot to development economics again), Praful Bidwai (who at least is not a fool as some of our Rightist friends would like to portray), the innumerable NGO's across the country who are publishing some of the best reports on various sectors like power sector, health sector, food entitlements, education sector, water conservation and management, employment sector, urbanization and sustainable development etc. Or are only the Arnab Goswamis and Barkha Dutts capable enough of giving us lectures on issues of 'development'? Reminds me of some IITians (nothing short of fools according to me) who were advocating of applying the Chinese model of ensuring that technocrats and technology specialists were there in the top corridors of power as rulers (like China has in the top rungs of the CCP, the famous Chinese Communist Party) as of now. Regards Rakesh From pkray11 at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 01:07:42 2009 From: pkray11 at gmail.com (prakash ray) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 01:07:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] condemning ban on Charandas Chor Message-ID: <98f331e00908031237o2acdda83i72669b3e06ed43f0@mail.gmail.com> Press Release condemning ban on Charandas Chor: We are shocked to learn from press reports that the BJP government of Chhattisgarh has banned Charandas Chor, a classic of the modern Indian theatre, written and produced by Habib Tanvir. The play was first done in the 1970s, and is originally based on an oral folk tale from Rajasthan. Habib Tanvir worked on this tale, introducing into it elements of the art and beliefs of the Satnami community. Satnami singers and dancers have performed in this play, and it has been seen by members of the community several times. In Chhattisgarh and Madhya Pradesh, there are several rural troupes who are today performing some version of this play. The play itself is the story of a thief who, under the influence of a guru, pledges never to tell a lie. He sticks to his pledge, even at the cost of his life. This superb tragic-comedy, in a thoroughly entertaining and artistic manner, brings into focus the moral and ethical degeneration of our society, in which, paradoxically, it is a thief who ends up being more honest than those who supposed to be the custodians of our morality. Charandas Chor remains Habib Tanvir’s best-known play, and has been performed literally hundreds of times by his world-renowned Naya Theatre troupe all over India and in several countries across the world. It was made into a film by Shyam Benegal, with Smita Patil in the lead, in 1975, and was the first Indian play to win the prestigious Fringe First award at the Edinburgh Theatre Festival in 1982. It then did a successful run on the London stage. We demand that the Chhattisgarh government immediately revoke this absurd ban. Arvind Gaur Brijesh Govind Deshpande Javed Malick Madangopal Singh M.K. Raina Moloyashree Hashmi N.K. Sharma Shahid Anwar Sudhanva Deshpande Vivan Sundaram Wamiq Abbasi Act One Theatre Group Asmita Theatre Group Bahroop Art Group Jana Natya Manch Jan Sanskriti Janvadi Lekhak Sangh Sahmat From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 08:34:09 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 08:34:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 6 Message-ID: Online edition of India's National Newspaper Tuesday, Jun 15, 2004 Group Publications Business Line The Sportstar Frontline The Hindu About Us Contact Us *National* News: Front Page| National | Tamil Nadu | Andhra Pradesh | Karnataka | Kerala | New Delhi | Other States | International | Opinion | Business | Sport | Miscellaneous | Advts: Classifieds | Employment | National [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] * Call for proper implementation of PDS, noon meal scheme * By Our Staff Correspondent BHOPAL, JUNE 14. The national network of voluntary groups on Sunday concluded its three-day session on the "Right to Food and Work" by passing a resolution that emphasises that the mid-day meals scheme and the public distribution system must be properly implemented and the right-to-work protected through a National Employment Guarantee Act. The national committee member of the Bharat Gyan Vigyan Samiti, Asha Mishra, told *The Hindu* that the resolution laid special emphasis on right to food for children. It was decided to observe November 14, Children's Day, as the national day of action for mid-day meals. The resolution emphasises that the non-school going children, including those belonging to the Dalit and SCs/STs sections, should be fully covered under the mid-day meal scheme, she added. Ms. Mishra, who coordinated the thee-day event, said their emphasis was on both quality and the extent of coverage of the mid-day meals scheme. Steps were also needed to improve the implementation of the Integrated Child Development Services (ICDS) and the PDS. Everyone who participated in the discussions was for an immediate ban on export of foodgrains. She said the participants were also concerned about corruption in the PDS. Shiraz Balsara Prabhu of the Kashtkari Sangathan of Dahanu in Maharashtra said that the national network on the right to food and work had decided to lobby for a national employment act on the lines of the Employment Guarantee Act of Maharashtra. She said: "There would be special emphasis on our part to ensure that aspects like non-protection of the unorganised labour and migrant labour are covered under this act." Ms. Prabhu said that those associated with the network for the right to food and work were concerned about the total lack of protection and non-payment of wages to labourers who were given work under the employment guarantee scheme. Till now, the employment guarantee scheme was being used to give employment to people only in calamity-affected areas, but it would be their endeavour to ensure that this became a blanket scheme to cover all people at all times. Later, at a public meeting, speakers expressed optimism about the outside support being extended by the Left parties to the Manmohan Singh Government at the Centre. The Narmada Bachao Andolan leader, Alok Agrawal, cautioned the participants against the World Bank, International Monetary Fund and World Trade Organisation. These agencies were trying to make it possible for the multinationals to make a "back-door" entry into India. There was, however, considerable hope, as the Left parties would hold the "danda" (rod) and ensure that the Central Government did not fall prey to the "nefarious designs" of the multinationals that want to control "our water, food and land, said Mr. Agrawal. * * Printer friendly page Send this article to Friends by E-Mail National News: Front Page| National | Tamil Nadu | Andhra Pradesh | Karnataka | Kerala | New Delhi | Other States | International | Opinion | Business | Sport | Miscellaneous | Advts: Classifieds | Employment | Updates: Breaking News | *News Update* Stories in this Section - Government nod for contact with Hurriyat - PMO apprised of Cauvery panel findings - Somnath for early disposal of cases against MPs, MLAs - CPI will act as a watchdog, says Bardhan - Building nuclear confidence - BJP dissidents baffled - Minor changes in Goa Cabinet - Nag missile test-fired - `40 p.c. of resources for schemes must be set apart for women' - 247 commercial sex workers leave Goa - Call for proper implementation of PDS, noon meal scheme - Legal status may be considered - Reshuffle in J&K Ministry soon: Azad - Held for inter-State car-lifting racket - Gustad's police custody extended - NCW discusses Baina beach oustees' plight - Major strike by NLFT faction - `Labour issues must be addressed within ILO framework' - Veteran Communist leader dead - Pawar for more autonomy to FCI - Vaishno Devi yatra resumes - Tourists are safe in Kashmir, says Lashkar - Rs. 1,385 cr. tax demand slapped on Ketan entities - Jet Airways to raise fares - `No kin of Akhtar working in DAE units' - IIM-I to charge same fee as last year - Non-G-5 nations aim at framework farm accord - Why Vajpayee about-turn, asks Congress - Publication of foreign newspaper: Centre files caveat Archives Yesterday's Issue Datewise Features: Life Magazine Literary Review Metro Plus Open Page Education Plus Book Review Business SciTech Entertainment Young World Property Plus Quest Folio ------------------------------ The Hindu Group: Home | About Us| Copyright | Archives| Contacts | Subscription Group Sites: The Hindu | Business Line| The Sportstar | Frontline| The Hindu eBooks | Home| Copyright © 2004, The Hindu. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of The Hindu ------------------------------ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 08:31:04 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 08:31:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 6 Message-ID: Online edition of India's National Newspaper Saturday, Jun 12, 2004 Group Publications Business Line The Sportstar Frontline The Hindu About Us Contact Us *National* News: Front Page | National | Tamil Nadu| Andhra Pradesh | Karnataka| Kerala | New Delhi| Other States | International| Opinion | Business| Sport | Miscellaneous| Advts: Classifieds | Employment | Obituary| National [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] * 'Right to work, food cannot be ignored' * By Our Staff Correspondent * The All-India Democratic Women's Association general secretary, Brinda Karat (third from right), and other delegates at the inaugural session of the national convention on `Right to Food and Work' in Bhopal on Friday. — Photo: A. M. Faruqui * BHOPAL, JUNE 11. The large turnout of participants from across the country at a three-day convention on "Freedom from Hunger and Right to Work'' that started here today gave an impression that the campaign in support of the people's right to food and work has turned into a nation-wide movement. Speakers who addressed the inaugural session at the Gandhi Bhawan this morning said that those in authority — whether at the Centre or in the States — could no longer afford to ignore the people's right to work and food. Eminent lawyer and civil rights activist Colin Gonsalves said that several States, including Madhya Pradesh, Uttar Pradesh and Bihar, were lagging behind in implementing the "mid-day meal'' scheme. The attention of the Supreme Court would be on Madhya Pradesh and its performance vis-a-vis the implementation of the mid-day meal scheme, would be closely watched. Even the State Chief Secretary should be prepared to answer queries at the apex court level, he said. Mr. Gonsalves said the scheme would go a long way in serving a social cause as it would bring children from all strata of society together. The Supreme Court directive for giving priority to the Dalits when it came to appointing cooks and other helping staff to carry forward the scheme would act as a great social leveller. Mr. Gonsalves expressed concern over the manner in which the employment guarantee scheme was being implemented across the country. For months together, the labourers were not being paid. Even contractors were being assigned jobs and tractors were being illegally used instead of guaranteeing at least 100 days of work for poor families in the rural areas. He questioned the rationale behind the previous National Democratic Alliance Government's decision to export foodgrains when people were dying of hunger and starvation. Multinational companies were eying the Indian market to offload, on their terms, stocks of genetically modified grains lacking nutritive content. It was unfortunate that the support price for agricultural produce had been reduced, Mr. Gonsalves said adding that the farmer should get the correct price and the poor should get food for work. There had been an attempt to bring down the number of those living below the poverty line in this country only to project that globalisation had been the right policy. On the contrary, we find more and more people dying of hunger in the West Bengal tea gardens and even in States such as Karnataka and Maharashtra. The Convener of the National Campaign on Dalit Human Rights (NCDHR), Paul, Diwakar said there were so many different layers within our society and by not reaching them one had failed to touch those sections that were dying. "We need to link with these voices," Mr. Diwakar said adding that starvation deaths was just the other side of the right to work. * * Printer friendly page Send this article to Friends by E-Mail National News: Front Page | National | Tamil Nadu| Andhra Pradesh | Karnataka| Kerala | New Delhi| Other States | International| Opinion | Business| Sport | Miscellaneous| Advts: Classifieds | Employment | Obituary| Updates: Breaking News | *News Update* Stories in this Section - 'Maximum results in minimum time' - Najma Heptulla joins BJP - No proposal to send troops to Iraq, says Congress - Package sought for Uttar Pradesh - Iranian dailies tie up with Urdu, Telugu papers - Committed to repealing POTA, says Patil - People's interests being ignored in U.P.: Sonia - Reverse `Joshi legacy,' say academics - Lok Sabha prorogued - Educating children a moral responsibility: Arjun Singh - No ticket for Manohar Joshi - Chaturvedi for raising morale of officers - Global tenders invited for removing grounded vessel - 'Right to work, food cannot be ignored' - West Bengal to accept World Bank aid - No party can ignore deprived sections: Brinda Karat - Malda mangoes for London - Yasin Malik arrested - Where Pakistan pilgrims will be missed - Oil pricing: meeting with Prime Minister delayed - NHRC intervention sought to end `police intimidation' - Relief for job seekers going abroad - Bipasha Basu lost and found - Kashmir leader dead - Patil to be fielded from Maharashtra - JD(U) to study farmers' suicides - Kalam presented a book - Eight IAS officers transferred - Sharad Yadav nominated for Rajya Sabha elections - BJP thinking of `shadow cabinet' Archives Yesterday's Issue Datewise Features: Life Magazine Literary Review Metro Plus Open Page Education Plus Book Review Business SciTech Entertainment Young World Property Plus Quest Folio ------------------------------ The Hindu Group: Home | About Us| Copyright | Archives| Contacts | Subscription Group Sites: The Hindu | Business Line| The Sportstar | Frontline| The Hindu eBooks | Home| Copyright © 2004, The Hindu. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of The Hindu ------------------------------ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 08:41:51 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 08:41:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 6 Message-ID: Online edition of India's National Newspaper Wednesday, Aug 15, 2007 [image: Google] ------------------------------ ------------------------------ *Independent India at 60* Features: Magazine | Literary Review | Life| Metro Plus | Open Page| Education Plus | Book Review| Business | SciTech| Friday Review | Young World| Property Plus | Quest| Folio | Independent India at 60 CHILDREN * Where are the children? * NIRMALA LAKSHMAN That one in three malnourished children lives in India is a reflection of the failure of the Indian state Recent newspaper investigations have revealed that several hundreds of children suffer from severe malnutrition in Thane district near Mumbai, India’s financial capital. For instance, two-year-old Manoj, whose weight should be 10 kg, weighs only 3.8 kg; his weight increased by only 2 kg since birth. Last year 1,100 children in Thane died of malnutrition-related causes. This year, in Mumbai alone, 501 children were found to be suffering from acute malnutrition. In Ma dhya Pradesh, 55.1 per cent of children suffer from malnutrition, and in Bihar the figure is 54.4 per cent. The third National Family Health Survey (NFHS-3) of 2005-06 shows that nationwide 46 per cent of children under three are undernourished; down by only 1 per cent since the previous survey in 1998-99. The number of children suffering from malnutrition in India even 60 years after Independence remains staggeringly high. Despite being one of the fastest growing economies in the world, severe malnutrition leading to high infant and child mortality puts India low (126th in 2006), in the United Nation’s Human Development Index (HDR), a key indicator of the well-being of populations. One in three malnourished children of the world lives in India. This is a critical reflection of the gross failure of society and the Indian state to implement and sustain measures to safeguard the lives and health of the children of this country. Statistics indicate that 2.5 million children die in India every year, accounting for one in five deaths of children in the world. Girls are also 50 per cent more likely to die than boys in India. The HDR of 2006 points out that despite a steady growth of GDP in the country, the decline in child mortality has remained stagnant after going from 2.9 per cent a year in the 1980s to 2.2 per cent a year in 1990. The alarming lack of progress in reducing child mortality and improving other poor indicators of child well-being underline the fact that increases in wealth and income do not lead to an improvement in human development. The consequences of early childhood malnutrition are well known; they include physical and mental impairment often leading to an early death. Survival is therefore the first issue of concern for the Indian child, followed by the challenges of malnutrition and undernutrition, poor access to health care and education, as well as a host of other threats ranging from sex selectivity and the discrimination faced by female children, to child labour, child abuse and trafficking. Although in an overall sense in the six decades since Independence, child survival rates have improved and other factors such as school enrolment especially among girl children has increased, the rate of progress has not been commensurate with the overall growth of the economy. This is in part due to the many paradoxes that dog the Indian social and legal system. For instance, child labour has only been banned in certain occupations; there is no total prohibition of child labour. This contravenes a child’s right to free and compulsory education guaranteed by the Constitution. Measures to tackle other problems like child abuse, trafficking, gender discrimination and the special needs of disabled children are either ineffective or inadequately implemented. The failure to deliver on certain fundamental rights of children such as the right to food, the right to health and the right to education contributes to their deleterious condition. Focussed interventions and increased budgetary allocations for child welfare programmes coupled with the commitment to protect the entitlements of children constitute some of the most exigent needs of the country today. While the Indian Constitution in Article 39(f) directs that States provide children “opportunities and facilities to develop in a healthy manner and in conditions of freedom and dignity,” little has been done to ensure this. India is also a signatory to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC). The CRC sets out the basic rights of children, including the right to life, protection from abuse and exploitation; it also delineates the states’ responsibilities towards children. However, as economist Amartya Sen has said, human rights exist by virtue of being born a human being. Similarly, children’s rights need to be asserted as being basic to their existence — including the right to life, the right to food and the right to health, education and development. The plethora of laws that have emerged over the decades since Independence is of no consequence unless these rights can be asserted and safeguarded through such laws. Mina Swaminathan, an expert in early child development, has for instance stressed that child rights are often violated even before birth, such as by the sex-selective abortion of female foetuses, which continues to be prevalent despite the law against it. Even though there has been a marginal rise in the female-male sex ratio in the 2001 Census, there has been a disturbing decline in the female to male sex ratio in the under-6 age group. The 1991 Census shows the female to male sex ratio in the 0-6 age group as 945 girls per 1,000 boys, whereas in the 2001 Census in the same age group the ratio was 927 girls to 1,000 boys. The tragedy is that even if a girl child escapes death in the womb and survives an infancy dogged by poor health, malnourishment and inadequate access to food, she will probably be forced to work within the household and outside, and will in all likelihood be denied a proper education. Adopting a rights approach ensures that the entitlements of all children are protected. This has been clearly demonstrated by the Supreme Court’s orders on the Integrated Child Development Services (ICDS), the only comprehensive programme that focusses on the needs of children under six in the country, especially for nutrition and health. The Supreme Court has called for the “universalisation” of the ICDS, which implies that every child under six, as well as pregnant and nursing mothers, are *entitled to* the package of services that include supplementary nutrition, growth monitoring and promotion, nutrition and health education, immunisation, health services as well as referral services and pre-school education. In interim orders passed in 2001 and in 2004, the Supreme Court directed the Government of India to increase the number of anganwadi centres (for ICDS services) from 6 lakh to 14 lakh and to ensure that all Scheduled Caste/Scheduled Tribe hamlets and slums in urban areas be provided with these centres. The most far-reaching directive from the Supreme Court, however, came in December 2006, when a time-frame was given to State governments (December 2008) to create the proposed anganwadis. More radically, the Court mandated that all rural habitations, tribal hamlets and slums where there are at least 40 children under six are entitled to an “anganwadi on demand.” This is an explicit recognition of the ICDS as a right of all children. The Focus on Children Under Six (FOCUS) Report published in December 2006, which surveyed in detail the condition of the ICDS in six States in 2004, and offered critical insights, revealed that the programme has done well in States where it receives more attention such as Tamil Nadu, where anganwadis are open every day and food and services are always available. Economist Jean Dreze, who was associated with the Survey, said that functional anganwadis with adequate staff, cooked lunches and health services seemed to be the norm in many villages in Tamil Nadu. More significantly, he observed that even uneducated Dalit women in Tamil Nadu were aware of their entitlements and knew how to enforce them. Anuradha Rajivan, an expert in child nutrition, said that in Tamil Nadu anganwadis cannot remain closed without immediate queries being raised. She pointed out that the coming together of political commitment and public pressure which perceives the ICDS as a right is yielding good dividends in Tamil Nadu. There is no reason that the lead taken by States like Kerala and Tamil Nadu, where child indicators are better than in the other States, cannot be followed. If children’s issues are viewed as a matter of their right, it will not only positively affect their situation but will also strengthen Indian democracy. If 60 years after Independence, the majority of children in the country are still undernourished and continue to face severe deprivation and exploitation, there is an urgent need for concerted effort to tackle what has been described as a “humanitarian emergency”. Legislative protection, judicial intervention and social activism can push children’s issues centre stage, but political will backed by adequate resource allocation and a real commitment to recognising the human rights of children are needed if this nation is to progress in the real sense of the word. *Dr. Nirmala Lakshman is Joint Editor, The Hindu.* * * ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Independent India at 60 Features: Magazine | Literary Review | Life| Metro Plus | Open Page| Education Plus | Book Review| Business | SciTech| Friday Review | Young World| Property Plus | Quest| Folio | ------------------------------ The Hindu Group: Home | About Us| Copyright | Archives| Contacts | Subscription Group Sites: The Hindu | Business Line| The Sportstar | Frontline| Publications | eBooks| Images | Home | Comments to : thehindu at vsnl.com Copyright © 2007, The Hindu Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of The Hindu ------------------------------ From murali.chalam at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 09:08:48 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:08:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The 64th Anniversary Of USA Terrorism Enlightened By The Wisdom of Nonviolence By Eileen Fleming (fwd from Countercurrents.org) In-Reply-To: References: <1f9180970908030122m1b1912dq3318dd0d70f331f5@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908030407s2eb9f026p98981c5e021c2796@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908030943p2f441de9k26b5bfd32f904050@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908032038v6e1428b9sdf6c05f0243d5712@mail.gmail.com> Absolutely right on your assessment of the media and how they conduct. These news channels are looking at increasing their TRP rating most time lacking any substance. However they invariably are campaigners for certain parties. Regards, V Murali On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Anyways, the Indian media is not totally bad, but an in-depth understanding > of any issue is of utmost importance, which most of our media people seem to > lack. In particular, our TV media, consisting of the who's who of the > stupids-cum-bosses hanging their noses around, seems to show very clearly. > And then there are people following them closely on the newspaper circuit as > well. > > Even programs which could be used to understand issues properly, like 'The > Big Fight' invariably turn into programs of pointing fingers simply and > bak-bak-bak-bak-bak....and grand posturing too...... > > May be our TV media and the newsprint media (referring to those who only > indulge in elitist concerns, and then shoot off against people-based schemes > without understanding the logic of using them), should read books of > development economists like Amartya Sen (he has won the Nobel Prize, so he > may not be a fool to have won it I believe).There are others in the line as > well, like Madhav Gadgil (expert on environment), Aruna Roy (RTI), Bina > Agrawal (issues of gender rights), Muhammad Yunus (micro-finance through > Grameen Bank, another Nobel Prize winner), Swami Agnivesh (understanding > about Hindu religion or 'dharma', though it's not that close a people's > concern according to me, even then), Jean Dreze (Right to Food, along with > others of course), Kaushik Basu and Abhijit Banerjee (professors of > economics in universities outside India, who actually have contributed a lot > to development economics again), Praful Bidwai (who at least is not a fool > as some of our Rightist friends would like to portray), the innumerable > NGO's across the country who are publishing some of the best reports on > various sectors like power sector, health sector, food entitlements, > education sector, water conservation and management, employment sector, > urbanization and sustainable development etc. > > Or are only the Arnab Goswamis and Barkha Dutts capable enough of giving us > lectures on issues of 'development'? Reminds me of some IITians (nothing > short of fools according to me) who were advocating of applying the Chinese > model of ensuring that technocrats and technology specialists were there in > the top corridors of power as rulers (like China has in the top rungs of the > CCP, the famous Chinese Communist Party) as of now. > > Regards > > Rakesh > > > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 09:34:32 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:34:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 6 Message-ID: *Vol:20 Iss:04* *URL: http://www.flonnet.com/fl2004/stories/20030228001307900.htm* ------------------------------ Back *COLUMN* * Tales of deprivation * HARSH MANDER * The public hearing in Delhi on the right to food testifies to a stark reality: basic prerequisites for a life of dignity are still beyond the reach of a majority of Indians. * ANU PUSHKARNA * Villagers who had come from all parts of the country at the public hearing organised by the Right to Food Campaign in Delhi University on January 10. * IT was a bleak, foggy winter morning in the capital city of India. Several hundred people from 12 States had converged on an open ground in Delhi University to assert the right of all citizens to be free from hunger. With them were activists from more than 47 organisations, students, academics and journalists, who gathered to listen to the testimonies of people living with hunger. Only late that morning on January 10 did the first feeble rays of sunlight filter through the inhospitable fog. Yet, hundreds of people sat riveted for hours on durries and the bare ground to share the stories, the anguish, the profound deprivation, the anger and the daily life struggles of those who had come there from distant corners of the country. Kavita Srivastava, an activist, informed the gathering that an informal nation-wide collective of organisations and movements had coalesced over the past year and a half around the demand for the right to food. The Right to Food Campaign had organised public hearings in several parts of the country to investigate reports of starvation and chronic hunger. However, this was the first public hearing at the national level, and its aim was to investigate more comprehensively the nationwide situation caused by food deprivation and the failures of the state. The first segment of the testimonies, introduced by activist Bela Bhatia, was of people who routinely suffer chronic hunger as a way of life. She spoke of three categories of people who subsist permanently in the shadow of hunger, haunting them as an everyday reality. The first were entire communities, utterly dispossessed, such as the Musahaars who did not own even their homestead lands, and the Sahariyas, a tribal community dependent on forests with no surviving forests. The second were the most socially vulnerable categories of people who lived in the outermost margins of all communities, such as widows, old people with none to care for them, persons with disabilities, and people living with debilitating and stigmatised ailments. The third were urban destitute people, who spill over to the cities as a result of desperate poverty in the countryside, but are forced to survive on the pavements or illegalised slums. The first testimomy was by Harwansh Manjhi of the Musahaar community, from East Champaran district in Bihar. He spoke of many instances of hunger deaths among the Musahaars in several villages of his district and the denial of such instances by the Collector. The officer claimed that this was mischievous propaganda spread by the ultra-left Maoist Communist Centre or by non-governmental organisations funded by foreign agencies, and that the deaths were owing to sickness, poverty and malnutrition, but not starvation. When the issue was highlighted in the media, the Collector organised the daily distribution of one litre of milk and 50 kg of grain for each family in the affected villages for 20 days. However, since then, they have been forgotten once again. There is no employment in public works or in the agricultural fields, and people are reduced to surviving on wild tubers and roots from the forest. The next person to speak was Jago Kumwar, a widow from Manatu village in Palamau district of Jharkhand. Her husband was forced to mortgage their tiny tract of agricultural land. Farm work was scarce both in their village and outside it. They scoured the forests for edible grasses and roots, but were forced to go hungry for several days. After three days without food, her husband died. Within two months of his death, four more people died of hunger in her village. Nothing happened until this news appeared in some local newspapers when some Ministers visited her village. But she was not allowed to speak to the Ministers. They claimed that her husband did not die of hunger. The four families were paid Rs.500 each as compensation, and 10 kg of grain for their sustenance. Since then, they have been forgotten once again. She has no employment, receives no pension for which she is eligible and has no Antyodaya card, which would have entitled her to subsidised grain. Nikhil Dey of the Mazdoor Kisan Shakti Sangathan (MKSS) added here that in a survey done in Kusumkand village, Jharkhand, it was found that out of 21 households, 20 skipped meals regularly, only seven had blankets or quilts and only two reported owning footwear. The third testimony was by Phulchehra Biwi, a widow with three daughters from Dakshin Raipur village, South 24 Parganas district of West Bengal. After her husband's death 11 years ago, she lives mainly by begging, as she cannot find any employment. She claimed that the *gram sansad *had done nothing to help her or her daughters. Murari Ganpat, a young Sahariya tribal man from Mundujar village in Baran district of Rajasthan, was the only able-bodied member of his family. After three years of drought, he found it hard to find work and food for his family. But disaster hit his family when he fell ill. His family subsisted for several months on *sama*, a forest grass. One by one, he lost his father, his wife, his daughter and his mother. He was threatened by the local policeman and tahsildar to deny that the four deaths in his family were owing to hunger. He was given 10 kg of rice. There were many more deaths among the Sahariyas in nearby villages. In Harinagar, 12 children died. In Kishangad, 14 children lost their lives. Nikhil Dey said that the Rajasthan government's official stance has been that the deaths were owing to malnutrition and not hunger. "What is the difference?" he asked. Shakuntala, a 62-year-old woman from Khairpadar in the Bolangir district of Orissa, is a Kandha, an Adivasi community. She was widowed 25 years ago. Her husband succumbed to malaria and they were forced to mortgage all their land to survive. She went with her son to Durg in search of work but there her son was bitten by a dog and died. She came back and found work at a stone quarrying unit where she was paid Rs.7 a day. Today her health has deteriorated so badly that she is not able to work. Even though she has been classified in government records as BPL (below poverty line), she has not been able to buy subsidised grain for the past two months. Her house collapsed as she could not afford to repair it. Soon she started living on the verandah of another person's house. With the help of an NGO, she has started receiving a small pension under the government scheme, but even this is not regular. The last testimony on hunger was given by Mandakini, a pavement dweller in Paharganj, Delhi. Her father was an alcoholic, and her mother abandoned her family. She, along with her brothers and father were forced to live on the pavements near Bangla Saheb Gurdhwara, where they begged. One day the police rounded her up, and she was incarcerated in a beggars' home for several months. After her release, she had nowhere to go except the streets. Only recently has an NGO opened a night shelter for women near the Gurdhwara. It provides her protection from sexual harassment, the cold and the rain, and she is grateful for this. As there is no provision for food in the shelter, she has gone back to begging. Later that morning, Hashmi, a homeless youth from Delhi, said: "In my village in Uttar Pradesh, my mother used to scold my little brothers and sisters who cried because they were hungry. I ran away from home. I thought I will make lots of money after reaching a city. First I went to Lucknow, stayed there and then I reached Delhi. I did not know that life would be so difficult here. I went through several vocations - rag-picking, rickshaw-pulling, and so on. And even went to jail. But after all of this, I did not attain anything in life. Hunger is still a part and parcel of my life. Our biggest fight is with hunger," he said. "We never know from where we will get our next meal," he added. He explained how he had lost his self-esteem by queuing for leftover food outside hotels and wished he could simply work for a living. THE next segment of the public hearing was introduced by Pradeep Bhangava, an economist from Jaipur. He spoke of the enormous human suffering created by three years of recurring drought in Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh, Jharkhand, Orissa, Uttar Pradesh and Chhattisgarh, compounded by criminal state apathy despite mounting foodstocks. He cited research findings that even moneylenders have stopped giving food loans to people reeling under drought, as they know well that they have no capacity to repay. Lakhinder Senaji, from Sankarai village in Orissa, said that in two years of drought, he has found employment in relief works for a total of 20 days only. Chunnilal from Shivpuri district of Madhya Pradesh said that in the past two years, he could find only 10 days of public employment. For the rest, people of his village walk 10 km each day to cut trees and bushes, an illegal activity, and sell them as firewood and keep alive their families. Manphulli Bai of Jaalad village in Jaipur district of Rajasthan had a similar story to tell. Two hundred people in her village were unemployed but the muster roll had only 20 names. Cattle were dying, starved of fodder. A large number of people had migrated. Wages paid even on government works are sometimes as low as Rs.15, well below the legal minimum wage. Narayan of Kasipur block, Orissa, spoke of the collapse of the public distribution system in his village. Rice, kerosene, and sugar were available only once every two or three months. Many poor people had no ration cards, and even many among those who had these were not classified as BPL, which made them ineligible to get subsidised grain. Employment was so scarce, that even those with BPL cards could not afford to buy the grain. It was common practice to `mortgage' the BPL card to moneylenders for Rs.100. Many of the poor people have neither money nor grain, and are reduced to eating roots. Economist and Nobel laureate Amartya Sen, who addressed the gathering, said that contrary to what many people believe, India has not done well in tackling the pervasive presence of persistent hunger. "Not only are there persistent recurrences of severe hunger and starvation in particular regions, but there is also a gigantic prevalence of endemic hunger across much of India. Indeed, India does much worse in this respect than even sub-Saharan Africa. Calculations of general undernourishment - what is sometimes called protein-energy malnutrition - is nearly twice as high in India as in sub-Saharan Africa. It is astonishing that despite the intermittent occurrence of famine in Africa, it too manages to ensure a much higher level of regular nourishment than does India. About half of all Indian children are, it appears, chronically undernourished, and more than half of all adult women suffer from anaemia. In maternal undernourishment and the incidence of birth of underweight babies, India's record is among the worst in the world." Amartya Sen went on to say that people have to go hungry if they do not have the means to buy enough food. Hunger is primarily a problem of general poverty, and thus overall economic growth and its distributional pattern are important in solving the problem. It is particularly critical to pay attention to employment opportunities, other ways of acquiring economic means, and also food prices, which influence people's ability to buy food, and thus affect the food entitlements they effectively enjoy. It is also crucial to use the means of specialised delivery of food that particularly helps poor children, such as more extensive use of feeding in the schools. This can not only increase the incentive for children to go to school, but also actually make them healthier and less undernourished. The Supreme Court has been judicious in emphasising the importance of this right. Amartya Sen was particularly critical of the large expenditure on food subsidy in India which does not achieve much in reducing undernourishment. "Part of the answer," he said, "lies in the fact that the subsidy is mainly geared to keep food prices high for the sellers of food - farmers in general - rather than to make food prices low for the buyers of food. The high incentive to produce results in the massive stocks of food grains that we find in India today. The overall effect of the high food prices will hit many of the worst off members of the society extremely hard. And while it does help some of the farm-based poor, the net effect is quite regressive on distribution. There is, of course, relentless political pressure in the direction of high food prices coming from farmers' lobbies, and the slightly muddied picture of benefiting some farm-based poor makes the policy issues sufficiently befuddled to encourage the confused belief that high food prices constitute a pro-poor stance, when in overall effect it is very far from that." On behalf of the Right to Food Campaign, human rights lawyer Colin Gonsalves informed the gathering about the progress on the petition for the right to food in the Supreme Court. The court has set up a monitoring mechanism for the better enforcement of all food schemes by Central and State governments, and the universal implementation of the mid-day meal scheme for schoolchildren all over the country. The campaign is pleading for an employment guarantee scheme as a statutory right and the universal coverage of all vulnerable groups with food transfers. A PANEL of five village community leaders comprised the national panchayat, which heard about 50 such testimonies. The members of the panel were Bhuribhai and Giyarsi Bahen from Rajasthan, activists struggling for the right to information and women's rights; Chandrika Majhi, an intrepid Musahaar activist from Bihar; Sankar Singh, a Sahariya tribal man from Madhya Pradesh, who has lived with intense poverty and fought indebtedness; and Jawahar Kumar from Jharkhand, who has struggled against drought in the Palamau region. Jawahar Kumar, who presented the verdict on behalf of the panchayat, held that there was irrefutable evidence presented before the panchayat, of people living and dying with grave levels of hunger in many corners of the country. Yet, the panchayat concluded, governments were busy denying starvation deaths rather than addressing the root causes of this tragedy. The panchayat called for the immediate implementation of an employment guarantee programme with part payment of wages in food, and special protection of widows, old people and others who are specially vulnerable. The point was amplified by Aruna Roy of the MKSS, who called for legislation that guaranteed employment. The panchayat verdict reflected the call made by activist-economist Jean Dreze, who has been a central actor in the Right to Food Campaign. He said that he was deeply moved by the testimonies of people who spend most of their lives in the shadow of hunger. These testimonies also brought out the numerous ways in which both State and Central governments have failed to protect the right to food, he said. He called on these governments to fulfil their responsibility towards ensuring the nutritional well-being of all citizens. He pointed out that freedom from hunger depended on a wide range of entitlements: secure employment, sustainable livelihoods, nutritional support, clean water and health care, among others. As a matter of immediate priority Jean Dreze urged the government to take the following steps: urgent implementation of recent Supreme Court orders relating to the right to food; social security arrangements to protect all destitute households from hunger as a matter of right; comprehensive revamping of the public distribution system; recognition and implementation of the right to work; and radical expansion of financial allocations for food-related programmes, and of all public facilities relating to the right to food. The participants resolved to continue the struggle for the right to food. Mahasweta Devi, the deeply loved writer and tribal rights activist, summed up the exercise thus: "In this world, you cannot get anything without fighting." * * From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 11:08:21 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 11:08:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Talk on Working with Abused Children using Play Therapy, Aug 25, Bombay Message-ID: For the entire mail: http://psychologynews.posterous.com/talk-on-working-with-sexually-abused-children Excerpts from the mail from FACSE: As you already know, Forum against Child Sexual Exploitation (FACSE) is a 13 year old network of individuals, professionals and organizations working to eliminate sexual exploitation and abuse of children. This time, we have invited Dr. Naina Athale, Counsellor and faulty at Tata Institute of Social Sciences as the Guest Speaker to share her experiences of working with sexually abused children using play therapy. Our intention is to use the medium of film for sensitizing each and every person in contact with children (through work or otherwise) to their responsibility of upholding and promoting the Rights of Children. We would thus like to invite you for the open meeting on 25th August 09 Tuesday at 4:00 p.m. at the following address. FACSE Opp. Mumbai Central Station From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 11:09:34 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 11:09:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Wordbuffs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Welcome to Wordbuffs Welcome to Wordbuffs -- the place for books, reviews and conversation. Where you can read and review fiction and non-fiction, books for children and older readers, travelogues and cookbooks, memoirs and romantic paperbacks. The only place on the web where you can swap books with an exclusive, ever-growing and quick-changing online library... without burning a hole in your pocket! So, no more buying stuff you might want to read just once! Save up for books you really want on your shelf. Become a Wordbuff -- the savvy bookswapper, who saves money and space on his/her bookshelf by trading books... the informed reader who thinks critically about his/her reading choices and shares them with others... the clever book buyer, who checks out book reviews before buying a book. Whether you eye the pop charts that update continuously, network with other Wordbuffs, swap a bestseller to read over the weekend or review books... Wordbuffs is the place for you! Click here to see a world of books open before your eyes! Register Now! http://wordbuffs.com From asitredsalute at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 17:27:31 2009 From: asitredsalute at gmail.com (Asit asitreds) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:27:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Habib Tanvir's play banned in Chhattisgarh In-Reply-To: <98f331e00908030447i6aa6b520q8fdb4a79e0625c71@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00908030447i6aa6b520q8fdb4a79e0625c71@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: this is cultural fascism we should protest asit On 8/3/09, prakash ray wrote: > > Charandas Chor, the famous play of Habib Saheb is banned by the > Chhattisgarh > govt. > > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=India&id=ad4622e2-14fa-4758-9560-988d1d07029f&Headline=Chhattisgarh+bans+Habib+Tanvir%E2%80%99s+masterpiece+EMCharandas+ChorEM > > a true fascist tribute to the master. > > PKR > www.cinemela.youthv.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From anant_umn at yahoo.co.uk Tue Aug 4 09:34:23 2009 From: anant_umn at yahoo.co.uk (anant maringanti) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 12:04:23 +0800 Subject: [Reader-list] [Urbanstudy] On Delhi In-Reply-To: References: <4A6FFCEF.90205@ranadasgupta.com> <3ef603b70907290338n186e9077iae894bf724fed429@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40907290441t50fcf5aan650d4f5f76494293@mail.gmail.com> <4A7194A8.70200@ranadasgupta.com> <65be9bf40907300837o7c532fadx92608edbc143d2a2@mail.gmail.com> <4A7416D8.9070501@ranadasgupta.com> <65be9bf40908030043r5a9ec7e2tba7dabc5b1107a7f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8d5106ed0908032104y2157ad7bgdf51985c9e9127c@mail.gmail.com> 2009/8/3 Zainab Bawa > I think there are a few crises that we are facing today, one of them that I > can immediately think of is a crises of conceptual handles - do old concepts > and categories apply to our present conditions? Even when we think of class, > does class exist in the same manner today as Marx spoke of? Zainab, If you are asking whether we can take an essay by Engels on the English factory working class and learn from it how hawkers in Mumbai live - the answer is of course not. But what are you concluding from that ? That the way in Engels wrote about class cannot teach us anything about how to think about or write about hawkers at VT or the way they navigate the urban terrain ? Concepts and categories are not ever available as prefabricated objects. They are constellations of ideas, they bear all sorts of scents, traces and tentacles. You have to work with them to appreciate them, reshape them and allow them to shape your thinking. To me what you describe above as 'crisis' - is a problem of intellectual currency. Marx is not included in Vogue 2009 winter collection. He hasnt been for some years. May be he will be on the cover page next year. I cannot tell. I would be curious to know. But it doesnt feel like anything remotely like a crisis where class has become an irrelevant concept. To some extent what Taha is pointing to is precisely this. Writers have to work with available tropes to make sense to readers and yet aspire to transcend those very tropes. What intellectual, aspirational, emotional resources the writer mobilizes to do that may vary from writer to writer - but isnt city writing as much about discovering the city as it is to be discovered by the city? Revealing oneself so that the city reveals itself. ? The generations of writers and film makers that Taha documents worked from within tropes of the city as the site of corruption and degradation an imagination of Indian cities as inefficient, corrupt, bloated, resource consuming. In the post war period, they located indian cities in a sort of diagram framed by colonialism as one axis and feudalism as another axis. There is a strange ideological continuum here from the World Bank to Chinese Communist Party. In that spectrum urban writers and creative artists responded in a number of ways ...from the peculiar jeena yahaan marna yahaan kind of resignation to lets go back to the village...from inciting revolution to modeling ideal citizens. Taha identifies an important trope. This identification only confirms what Gyan Prakash from one end and the World Bank from the other end have said - within Indian nationalist imagination cities have been seen as 'bad'. There is a decisive shift occurring now. I am not convinced by this line of thought. Identification of trope is only the beginning of the story. What did the writers and artists do with it ? That cannot be judged from within the trope. To do so is like taking one piece of a jigsaw puzzle and trying to judge the entire shape. On a hunch, though I would say that by and large, regional language literatures have been a lot more assertive in seeing cities as avenues for liberation. Those writers had much less guilt about their own location to deal with. In any case, I am glad that these emails landed in my mail box - I am not subscribed to sarai reader. The point to me is not whether or not the city is dark and depressing. Rather, if a writer renders a dark impression of the city, the question to ask is precisely what aspirations is he or she enlisting - what possible worlds is he or she conjuring up? anant From c.anupam at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 11:31:09 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 11:31:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] condemning ban on Charandas Chor In-Reply-To: <98f331e00908031237o2acdda83i72669b3e06ed43f0@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00908031237o2acdda83i72669b3e06ed43f0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00908032301t2f53b477o8dabf0cd01d63395@mail.gmail.com> The Chattisgarh government perhaps doesnt realise that mythological epic, Ramayana was written by a dacoit. On 8/4/09, prakash ray wrote: > > Press Release condemning ban on Charandas Chor: > We are shocked to learn from press reports that the BJP government of > Chhattisgarh has banned Charandas Chor, a classic of the modern Indian > theatre, written and produced by Habib Tanvir. The play was first done in > the 1970s, and is originally based on an oral folk tale from Rajasthan. > Habib Tanvir worked on this tale, introducing into it elements of the art > and beliefs of the Satnami community. Satnami singers and dancers have > performed in this play, and it has been seen by members of the community > several times. In Chhattisgarh and Madhya Pradesh, there are several rural > troupes who are today performing some version of this play. > > The play itself is the story of a thief who, under the influence of a guru, > pledges never to tell a lie. He sticks to his pledge, even at the cost of > his life. This superb tragic-comedy, in a thoroughly entertaining and > artistic manner, brings into focus the moral and ethical degeneration of > our > society, in which, paradoxically, it is a thief who ends up being more > honest than those who supposed to be the custodians of our morality. > > Charandas Chor remains Habib Tanvir’s best-known play, and has been > performed literally hundreds of times by his world-renowned Naya Theatre > troupe all over India and in several countries across the world. It was > made > into a film by Shyam Benegal, with Smita Patil in the lead, in 1975, and > was > the first Indian play to win the prestigious Fringe First award at the > Edinburgh Theatre Festival in 1982. It then did a successful run on the > London stage. > > We demand that the Chhattisgarh government immediately revoke this absurd > ban. > > Arvind Gaur > Brijesh > Govind Deshpande > Javed Malick > Madangopal Singh > M.K. Raina > Moloyashree Hashmi > N.K. Sharma > Shahid Anwar > Sudhanva Deshpande > Vivan Sundaram > Wamiq Abbasi > Act One Theatre Group > Asmita Theatre Group > Bahroop Art Group > Jana Natya Manch > Jan Sanskriti > Janvadi Lekhak Sangh > Sahmat > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Mon Aug 3 11:29:01 2009 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (artNET) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 07:59:01 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BAnnouncements=5D_New_on_VideoChan?= =?iso-8859-1?q?nel=3A_One_Minute_Film_Collection_=28OMFC=29?= Message-ID: <20090803075901.2AE8F3EA.EBA9EF97@192.168.0.3> VideoChannel - video project environments - http://videochannel.newmediafest.org is happy to launch on 3 August 2009 another highlight online. OMFC (One Minute Film Collection) is an ongoing project initiative chief curated by Wilfried Agricola de Cologne featuring at its start 67 films and videos with a duration of exactly one minute ---> http://videochannel.newmediafest.org/blog/?page_id=242 VideoChannel is welcoming Ali Zaidi (motiroti, London(UK)) as a guest curator selecting 14 films by directors from UK, India & Pakistan. --> http://videochannel.newmediafest.org/blog/?page_id=507 Monika Dutta (UK), Shobna Gulati (UK), Hetain Patel (UK), Nikesh Shukla (UK) Ali Zaid (UK) , Nitin Das (India), Skanya Ghosh (India), Vishrajuti Ghosh (India) Nila Madhab Panda (India), Abhilash V. (India), Shazieh Gorji (Pakistan), Roshaan Khattak (Pakistan), Syed Ali Nasir (Pakistan), Sehban Zaidi (Pakistan) The other thematic sections are Family & Friends --> http://videochannel.newmediafest.org/blog/?page_id=517 Sonja Vuk (CR), Antti Savela (SWE), Wolf Nkole Helzle (Ger) Katherine Sweetman (USA) , Grace Graupe-Pillard (USA) Luisa Mizzoni (IT), Adrian Zalewski (Poland), Yin-Ling Chen (Taiwan) Harad Rettich (Ger), Fumiko Matsuyama (Japan), Junho Oh (South Korea) Difference --> http://videochannel.newmediafest.org/blog/?page_id=533 Lukas Mateijka (SK), Kriss Salmanis (Latvia), Lin Fangsuo (China), István Rusvai (Hungary), Antonio Alvarado (Spain), Karl Mendonca (USA) Veena Shekar (India), Tanja Koljonen & Joe Candido (Finland) Louis Hubert (France), Erik Peterson (USA), Suzon Fuks (AUS) Mysteries ---> http://videochannel.newmediafest.org/blog/?page_id=537 Mores McWreath (USA), Toni Mestrovic (Croatia), Yoko Taketani (Japan) Agricola de Cologne (GER), Antony Rousseau (FR), Sreedeep (India), Sean Burn (UK), Roderick Coover & Nick Montfort (USA) Sahra Bhimji (USA), Pierre-Laurent Cassière (France), Kika Nicolela (Brazil), Past, Present & Future --> http://videochannel.newmediafest.org/blog/?page_id=551 Kaspars Groshevs (Latvia), Hermes Mangialardo (Italy, Henry Gwiazda (USA) Lemeh42 (Italy), Mads Ljungdahl (Denmark), Paolo Bonfiglio (Italy) Harriet Macdonald (UK), Arthur Tuoto (Brazil) Victoria S. Weible (USA), Péter Vadócz (Hungary) A Matter of Time --> http://videochannel.newmediafest.org/blog/?page_id=556 Johanna Reich (Germany), Anders Weberg (SWE), Ron Diorio (USA), Bill Domonkos (USA), Xenia Vargova (Bulgaria), Alison Williams (RSA) Walter Van Rijn (UK), Nicole Rademacher (USA) Baptist Coelho (India), Milica Rakic (Serbia) More info can be found on ---> http://videochannel.newmediafest.org/blog/?p=597 ------------------------------------------- CologneOFF, VideoChannel , VIP - VideoChannel Interview Project and VAD - Video Art Database are dedicated to art forms of film and video in the framework of [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne http://www.nmartproject.net - the experimental platform for art & new media from Cologne/Germany . info [at] nmartproject.net ------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Tue Aug 4 11:32:39 2009 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (cinematheque) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 06:02:39 -0000 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BAnnouncements=5D_Call=3A_The_Best?= =?iso-8859-1?q?_of_FLash_on_the_Net?= Message-ID: <20090717102500.60E0C158.9ADDAABD@192.168.0.3> extended deadline:31 August 2009 -------------------------------- Cinematheque - streaming media project environments http://cinema.nmartproject.net Call for entries \\ Flash & Thunder Flash as a medium and tool for artistic creations // Since the Internet became popular in the late 90'ies of 20th century, the software program "FLASH", once developed and prepared for the commercial market by Macromedia, and now owned by Adobe, represents a vector based developing environment which enables the creator to combine different media and develop vector based animations especially for the Internet. .swf data file extension became a standard for animations online and offline, and Flash video and its .flv file format stands for "videostreaming" on the net. As soon as the Internet started, artists captured it for artistic purposes, and the same is good for certain software used for the net, particularly Flash is predestined for developing artistic creations due to its intuitive use. It became one of the most popular software tools for the net, computer based animations and interactive applications like games. Flash based artworks entered media festivals, even festivals solely based on movies created in Flash are organised. After Cinematheque - streaming media environments - explored in 2007 the capabilities of "Quicktime" as an artistic medium in the comprehensive show \\Slowtime? Quicktime as an artistic medium// - its now the time to explore in 2009 the artistic potential of Flash in its own way in a big online show, as well. // Flash and Thunder Flash as a medium and tool for artistic creations \\ Cinematheque is looking for the best artistic Flash works created since 2000. Please find the regulations and entry form on http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=408 /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Cinematheque - streaming media project environments http://cinema.nmartproject.net is a corporate part of [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne http://www.nmartproject.net - the experimental platform for art and new media from Cologne/Germany ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////// _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From anansi1 at earthlink.net Tue Aug 4 12:45:29 2009 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul D. Miller) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 03:15:29 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Reader-list] As Obama's Support Erodes, the Right is Resurgent Message-ID: <23534749.1249370130199.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net> As Obama's Support Erodes, the Right is Resurgent Will Progressives Respond To The Attempt to Overthrow The President? http://www.commondreams.org/ By Danny Schechter CommonDreams.org: August 1, 2009 The tide of public opinion may be turning against the President. Pollsters report growing skepticism about health care reform, and more active hostility on racial matters, thanks to that "uncalibrated" expression of opinion on the arrest of Professor Gates in his own home. That remark turned him, in the eyes of some, from a small b black President into a militant Black Panther, or at least someone who can bashed as such. These are the new controversial issues with no one right answer, and a noisy debate everywhere, but something else is also going on. With Democrats fussing among themselves, with Obamacrats forced to rely on corporate media, the right-wing TV and radio stations close ranks behind the most self-righteously-correct ranters having a filed day poking , prodding, pummeling, and peeing into cups of their own resentment, hate and venom. There is no smear that is beneath them, no inference or insult out of bounds. Lou Dobbs blesses the birthers while that Elmer Gantry of demagoguery, Glenn Beck, meditates on his mountain and pronounces Obama a racist. An Israeli settler refers to our President as "that Arab," and worse. These are the nattering nabobs of negativity of our times, to resurrect an old canard once aimed at the left. The Yes We Can advocates seem to be taking refuge in the No We Won't center. The next thing you know, the removal of a democratically elected President that worked in Honduras might be attempted here at home. Some of us are still singing "We Shall Overcome" when our adversaries are chanting "We Shall Overthrow." If Barack's legitimacy as a citizen won't bring him down, his actions---moderate if not reactionary as they are--- unites the crazies against him and drives them even more beserk. The contentious Congressman who vowed to "break him," should be taken seriously This relentless riposte is having an effect on a demoralized and economically challenged population that is not well informed in the first place-except perhaps about Michael Jackson's dubious doctor who may have done the dirty deed. Sensing possible victory-whatever that means--- the Angeroid microfactions that lost the election are now seeking to polarize the public to topple the Administration with an electronic coup d'media. It is all that serious. Only Jon Stewart seems to be calling them on their game, while at the same time despairing about the obvious missteps and mistakes that the White House is making. They may be a garden outside the Oval Office but there is a minefield inside it. At the same time, another enemy is mounting a counterattack, perhaps in a more stealth manner, not by what it says, but by what it does The banks are deploying regiments of lobbyists and PR firms to defeat proposed new financial rules and an agency to protect consumers. They are escalating the gouging of the public. Emboldened by billions in bailout monies, and funds from the Treasury and Federal Reserve, the Bankster are in full loot mode. New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo reports that extravagant bonuses at some banks now outstrip revenues. The financial elite takes our money--and tells us to shove it. As a new wave of foreclosures threatens, the banks are not willing to modify most mortgages-even those sold fraudulently, because they make more money forcing families out and reselling their homes. The pace of regulatory reform, meanwhile is a slow-go, with few calls for more radical measures like a moratorium on foreclosures of the kind declared by FDR during the last Depression. Are you aware that outside of the government, a not for profit called NACA (The Neighborhood Assistance Corporation of America) is touring the country mobilizing homeowners to demand financial relief. I was at their original "Save The Deam" event in Washington last summer where members of Congress and officials like FDIC chairman Sheila Bair pledged support, but little happened. Government help as only reached 200,000 of the more than 12 million families in need. If you are not familiar with this issue or the role of devious mortgage servicers like Litton, owned by Goldman Sachs, see these You Tube videos on the PACFILM Channel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVyahxDc5OU and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mov0AVLsvQg According to FEED News, NACA is doing better-even though they are not getting the national publicity they deserve, perhaps because media outlets don't want to send the few staffers they have to the heartland, "About 50,000 people attended the second Save the Dream event in Chicago. This is a dramatic increase over the 25,000 people who attended NACA's first two Save the Dream events last year in Columbia, SC, and Washington, DC. "One of the reasons why turnout has increased this year is NACA's use of optimized press releases, blog outreach, and YouTube videos to let people know that the national non-profit community advocacy and homeownership organization offers unprecedented solutions for homeowners caught up in the current mortgage and economic crisis. During the Save the Dream events, borrowers can get mortgages restructured the same day." If the Obama Administration is to survive an ongoing assault still building steam, it needs a grass roots action-oriented army like the one NACA is building. They can't just rely on the Netroots activists who prefer emails to organizing. They can't rely on that co-opted in-house DNC arm, Organizing for America either. That is there only to rally support for the White House. A new movement has to develop outside the Democratic party in the same way that the right acts outside the GOP, and has built a capacity for independent action with echo chambers, message points and personalities. Their ideas may be backward but their dedication can't be denied. We can defend Obama's ideals, and also press for more action. As Jeff Cohen reminds us, we have a "president whose instinct is toward conciliation and splitting the difference with big business and the right wing. Sure, Obama was a community organizer once. That was decades ago when Russia was still our mortal enemy, Nelson Mandela was still an official State Department terrorist threat and the White House was still funding Islamist fanatics in Afghanistan. For the last dozen years Obama has been a politician -- and a consummate compromiser at that. Have we failed to notice?" Can progressives fight a three front war---against the vicious right, against the slippery center, and for a more comprehensive and empowering agenda? Can they finally realize that all politics does not occur in DC, and that being tethered to the denizens on the Hill can be a liability at a time when most political chameleons enjoy so little respect. Will they ever realize that they have to get into the economic trenches and fight the power of the banks with groups like A New Way Forward? Why is economic justice a priority for so few activists when these issues impact millions? Knock, Knock, anyone there? Mediachannel's News Dissector Danny Schechter investigates the origins of the economic crisis in his new book Plunder: Investigating Our Economic Calamity and the Subprime Scandal (Cosimo Books via Amazon). Comments to dissector at mediachannel.org From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 14:27:47 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 14:27:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The 64th Anniversary Of USA Terrorism Enlightened By The Wisdom of Nonviolence By Eileen Fleming (fwd from Countercurrents.org) In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908032038v6e1428b9sdf6c05f0243d5712@mail.gmail.com> References: <1f9180970908030122m1b1912dq3318dd0d70f331f5@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908030407s2eb9f026p98981c5e021c2796@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908030943p2f441de9k26b5bfd32f904050@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908032038v6e1428b9sdf6c05f0243d5712@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908040157ndd0ba85y394cb3d4553a4f9e@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, I do not know how many of you have read the article by veteran journalist, Shri. Kuldeep Nayar in Deccan Herald on 1st Aug.2009,on the role of media in present India, how the media, both print and visual media were totally business houses during the elections and also later to give spins for their masters in politics.He expresses his anguish at the lack of verification of "news" and the hurry to be first to be on air with invented news and also the media which took to canvass overt and covertly for the parties for a consideration of pay backs. In another news in print media, it was turn of demonstration of how EVMs could be managed to tamper the end result of an election, with a trojan programme and the results of a "free and Fair" poll could be turned in to a farce. Take it please with a pinch of salt ofcourse.! Regards, Rajen. On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Murali V wrote: > Absolutely right on your assessment of the media and how they conduct. > These news channels are looking at increasing their TRP rating most time > lacking any substance. However they invariably are campaigners for certain > parties. > Regards, > V Murali > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > >> Anyways, the Indian media is not totally bad, but an in-depth >> understanding of any issue is of utmost importance, which most of our media >> people seem to lack. In particular, our TV media, consisting of the who's >> who of the stupids-cum-bosses hanging their noses around, seems to show very >> clearly. And then there are people following them closely on the newspaper >> circuit as well. >> >> Even programs which could be used to understand issues properly, like 'The >> Big Fight' invariably turn into programs of pointing fingers simply and >> bak-bak-bak-bak-bak....and grand posturing too...... >> >> May be our TV media and the newsprint media (referring to those who only >> indulge in elitist concerns, and then shoot off against people-based schemes >> without understanding the logic of using them), should read books of >> development economists like Amartya Sen (he has won the Nobel Prize, so he >> may not be a fool to have won it I believe).There are others in the line as >> well, like Madhav Gadgil (expert on environment), Aruna Roy (RTI), Bina >> Agrawal (issues of gender rights), Muhammad Yunus (micro-finance through >> Grameen Bank, another Nobel Prize winner), Swami Agnivesh (understanding >> about Hindu religion or 'dharma', though it's not that close a people's >> concern according to me, even then), Jean Dreze (Right to Food, along with >> others of course), Kaushik Basu and Abhijit Banerjee (professors of >> economics in universities outside India, who actually have contributed a lot >> to development economics again), Praful Bidwai (who at least is not a fool >> as some of our Rightist friends would like to portray), the innumerable >> NGO's across the country who are publishing some of the best reports on >> various sectors like power sector, health sector, food entitlements, >> education sector, water conservation and management, employment sector, >> urbanization and sustainable development etc. >> >> Or are only the Arnab Goswamis and Barkha Dutts capable enough of giving >> us lectures on issues of 'development'? Reminds me of some IITians (nothing >> short of fools according to me) who were advocating of applying the Chinese >> model of ensuring that technocrats and technology specialists were there in >> the top corridors of power as rulers (like China has in the top rungs of the >> CCP, the famous Chinese Communist Party) as of now. >> >> Regards >> >> Rakesh >> >> >> > -- Rajen. From murali.chalam at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 14:31:03 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 14:31:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Acceptance of "Order of Leopold" By Sonia Message-ID: <4eab87870908040201i1298b8c3p4f0d178bcb514878@mail.gmail.com> Brief from the article "Election Commission - A star chamber of India?" by V Sundaram, which apperaed in the News Today a daily eveninger. Ref : http://newstodaynet.com/col.php?section=20&catid=33&id=16471 Sonia Gandhi received the ‘*Order of Leopold’*, the second highest civilian award in Belgium during her visit there in November, 2006. *The controversy regarding the disqualification of Sonia Gandhi arose out of a petition filed by Rajan, **a public spirited lawyer from Kochi**, who had sought the disqualification of Sonia under Article 102(1) (d) of the Constitution for accepting the 2nd highest Belgian honour from the hands of the Belgian King.* This Article clearly states that anybody who owes allegiance to the Constitution of another country should be disqualified from the membership of Parliament. In his petition to the President of India and the Speaker of the Lok Sabha, he had stated that he found to his shock, and dismay, that the *Order of Leopold* was no ordinary paper but a special title that demanded *‘devotion’* and *‘loyalty’* to the King and the State of Belgium in return from the person honoured with the title. By accepting this award, Sonia Gandhi, as a sitting MP, had violated Article 102(1) (d) of the Constitution, she had compromised with her allegiance and loyalty to India and therefore stood disqualified to function as a Member of Parliament.Thus Rajan concluded that Sonia Gandhi accepting this award amounted to her owing her allegiance to the Constitution of Belgium and not India. N Gopalaswami, who demittied office on *Monday, 20 April 2009*, is reported to have taken the view that there was need for further enquiry to go into a complaint against Sonia Gandhi receiving the ‘*Order of Leopold’*, the second highest civilian award in Belgium during her visit there in November, 2006. This reasonable stand taken by an upright civil servant with unquestioned and unimpeachable integrity like N Gopalaswami, has been overruled by the Election Commission (EC) by a majority opinion. By a 2-1 vote, Election Commissioners Navin Chawla and SY Quraishi have overturned Chief Election Commissioner N Gopalaswami’s view that an enquiry is necessary to go into the complaint against Sonia. These two Election Commissioners–known and planted political representatives of Sonia Gandhi and her Congress Party in the Election Commission--are understood to have recommended that the enquiry against Sonia Gandhi was complete and no further action was called for. Jai Hind. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 14:33:26 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 14:33:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Shiva Sena selling veggies for no-profit In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908030949k3604575dk876ce2d2362d18c3@mail.gmail.com> References: <4eab87870908030949k3604575dk876ce2d2362d18c3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908040203k7e2a4edaq503c5db9d2cd40bc@mail.gmail.com> Dear Murali, May be he does not know that an honest cop from Delhi was brought by high profile NCP fuedal lord, specially to Mumbai to re-invent hindu "terror " and the cop after "successful" detention of innocents wanted to resign, the result was death to honest cop.! And now all the detainees are released thanks to few honest judicial officers in the jungle of dishonest ones.Application of laws selectively to divide the votes of shivsena was the motive of NCP, but the gain was not for NCP, but Congress as usual. Regards, Rajen. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:19 PM, Murali V wrote: > Dont tell me that they ask for religion before they sell the produce to the > end users. Dont also tell me that only Hindus want to avail the cost > benefit > and others dont go to the market to by those vegetables. > Regards, > V Murali > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Javed wrote: > > > Eyeing vote gain, Shiv Sena sells veggies at no-profit-no-loss rates > > > > Mon, Aug 3 06:34 AM > > > > After the drubbing it received in the recent Lok Sabha polls, the > > Thane unit of the Shiv Sena is now selling vegetables, at almost half > > the market rates. > > > > The idea is to turn the tide in its favour in the Assembly elections. > > The party hopes to do that by banking on an issue that is hurting > > people's pockets — rising veggie prices. > > > > In the Lok Sabha elections, the Sena fared poorly in Thane and lost a > > seat to the NCP. Selling vegetables is an attempt by the party to woo > > back voters weaned away by Raj Thackeray's MNS. Presence of MNS > > candidates in the fray was perceived as one reason why the Sena did > > not do well in the general elections in Thane as well as Mumbai, where > > it did not win even one seat > > > > The move is also aimed at targeting the state government over the > > soaring vegetable prices in the month of Shravan. > > > > Ever since the initiative was inaugurated by Sena executive president > > Uddhav Thackeray's wife Rashmi on July 27, the party has been selling > > vegetables. Within the municipal limits of Thane city, Shiv Sena is > > operating 17 outlets located in, or near, the party offices known as > > Shakhas. > > > > "Vegetables are directly procured from farmers in Pune and Nashik and > > sold at the cost price. Transportation expenses are borne by Sainiks > > who have pooled in money for the scheme," said Eknath Shinde, > > legislator and Sena's Thane district chief. > > > > The popularity of the scheme can be gauged from the fact that > > vegetable stocks are sold out in a matter of hours. The outlets which > > are the first to receive the supply open at 8 am and others start sale > > a couple of hours later, and the counters are empty by noon. > > > > Cauliflower, which is averaging about Rs 40-44 per kg in the market, > > is being sold at Rs 10-14 per kg, cabbage at Rs 8-12, carrot at Rs 12, > > ladyfinger at Rs 20 and capsicum at Rs 20. > > > > All agriculture produce has to be sold to wholesalers through the > > Agriculture Produce Market Committee (APMC) but the party is > > circumventing the system to keep rates as low as possible. > > > > Shinde explained that they are able to sell at almost half the market > > prices as government agencies and middlemen have been bypassed. > > > > When pointed out that as per APMC regulations it is illegal to bring > > vegetables directly for sale, Shinde said : "Let the (authorities) > > prevent us from supplying affordable vegetables to people." > > > > "The price of vegetables sold by us averages about Rs 12-20 per kg > > which is nearly half the market price," said a party worker manning > > the sale counters at Tembi Naka. > > > > Shinde said pulses such as red gram (toor dal) and lentil would also > > be made available at subsidised rates. > > > > This initiative has been tailormade for the traditional vote-bank of > > the Sena, Hindus, particularly people from the Marathi community. > > > > Shravan is a month of abstinence from non-vegetarian food in the Hindu > > calendar, and this period always witnesses a peak in the prices of > > vegetables. The astronomical hike in the prices of vegetables has been > > attributed to the poor rainfall. > > > > > > > http://in.news.yahoo.com/48/20090803/814/tnl-eyeing-vote-gain-shiv-sena-sells-veg.html > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 14:39:58 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 14:39:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7271ec560908040209iade2453m5148550f1269c223@mail.gmail.com> Thanks to secular society and the faith of majority in India which is truely tolerant, this nation is a nation today, is having its few aberrations when the feudal lords get elected to parliament, with divisive politics, but the nation remains united thanks to occasional calamities which unites the society to face them, this inspite of efforts by the pseudo seculars and walking talking nations in this democracy.Ofcourse there are some special citizens who wear the faith on their sleeve for seeking apartments, change faiths for marriage three or four times, to defend the criminals,and media loves to be on their panel to preach morality.! Regards, Rajen. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:59 PM, asad abbasi wrote: > > Dear All, > > Nicholas Kristoff in his NY Times blog poses a serious question about the > feudal structure in Pakistan. He is right about the feudal lords- as they > are called- and their antics to remain in power. They are power of their > own, having their own rules. But can Pakistan allow these personal states > within her? But if this is the problem why can government not stop it? They > may be because the "land owners" are now powerful politicians. > > There was once a time in England when only land owners had the right to > vote, but it is may not be wrong to say that in a country like Pakistan only > land owners have the right to say. > > Pakistan has a cyclical problem. Politicians can break this feudal > structure but that would hurt their politics. Will they cut their own leg > for greater good of Pakistan? or Pakistan needs to finds a different > solution. > > > > Warm Regards, > > > > Asad > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/01/feudalism-in-pakistan/?pagemode=print > > > > > > > I sometimes wonder if what Pakistan doesn’t really need is a good dose of > land reform to break up feudal power. The extraordinary inequities in > Pakistan seem not only unjust but also an impediment to both economic growth > and national consensus. > > For those who haven’t been to Pakistan, you should know that in remote > areas you periodically run into vast estates — comparable to medieval Europe > — in which the landowner runs the town, perhaps operates a private prison in > which enemies are placed, and sometimes pretty much enslaves local people > through debt bondage, generation after generation. This feudal elite has > migrated into politics, where it exerts huge influence. And just as the > heartlessness of feudal and capitalist barons in the 19th century created > space for Communists, so in Pakistan this same lack of compassion for > ordinary people seems to create space for Islamic extremists. There are > other answers, of course, such as education, civil society, and the lawyers’ > movement. But I wonder if land reform wouldn’t be a big help. > > Dwight Perkins, the great Harvard economist of development, argued that a > crucial factor in the rise of East Asia was the land reform and division in > countries like Japan and South Korea after World War II, creating a more > equal society. (In Japan, this was done under U.S. auspices: we were much > more socialist outside our country than in it.) Likewise, India had its own > land reform in 1953, but Pakistan was left out. > > I’ve often focused on education as the greatest need for Pakistan, but even > there the feudal structure is replicated. There are first-rate schools in > English for the elite, second-rate schools for the strivers, and execrable > schools for the masses. At the bad schools, teachers don’t even bother to > show up. This highly stratified system tends to perpetuate an ossified > economic and social structure, and creates less room for the country to > innovate and build or use human capital. > > But I’m a novice here. Those of you who know Pakistan much better than I — > what do you think? Is the feudal land structure a major part of the problem? > And if so, is it so entrenched that it’s not even worth dreaming of land > reform? Is it more feasible to chip away at the feudal structure by > broadening education? I’m all ears. Let me know what you think. > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live Messenger: Thanks for 10 great years—enjoy free winks and > emoticons. > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- Rajen. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 15:02:14 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 15:02:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Shiva Sena selling veggies for no-profit In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908040203k7e2a4edaq503c5db9d2cd40bc@mail.gmail.com> References: <4eab87870908030949k3604575dk876ce2d2362d18c3@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908040203k7e2a4edaq503c5db9d2cd40bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Rajen jee I must say that you seem to me an agent of the RAW who has been cheated and is out to expose all political doublespeak which can help in 'exposing our politicians'. Or is it the creation of news as done by our news media to some extent? Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 15:04:53 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 15:04:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The 64th Anniversary Of USA Terrorism Enlightened By The Wisdom of Nonviolence By Eileen Fleming (fwd from Countercurrents.org) In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908040157ndd0ba85y394cb3d4553a4f9e@mail.gmail.com> References: <1f9180970908030122m1b1912dq3318dd0d70f331f5@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908030407s2eb9f026p98981c5e021c2796@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908030943p2f441de9k26b5bfd32f904050@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908032038v6e1428b9sdf6c05f0243d5712@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908040157ndd0ba85y394cb3d4553a4f9e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Rajen jee With full respects to Kuldip Nayar, I would also like you to put his article on Sarai itself, as it would have helped the rest of us to read it. Also, as far as EVM's are concerned, let someone prove it to the EC. And if yes, the EC doesn't take a look at it, the courts are there to prove it. And the court of public is always there for those who are rubbished by the elites. Regards Rakesh From nicheant at yahoo.co.uk Tue Aug 4 17:03:44 2009 From: nicheant at yahoo.co.uk (Nishant) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 17:03:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Britain To Put CCTV Cameras Inside Private Homes Message-ID: <4439ee330908040433y6ba9270epb17d7472bad5b04e@mail.gmail.com> Britain To Put CCTV Cameras Inside Private Homes By Charlie Sorrel As an ex-Brit, I’m well aware of the authorities’ love of surveillance and snooping, but even I, a pessimistic cynic, am amazed by the governments latest plan: to install Orwell’s telescreens in 20,000 homes. £400 million ($668 million) will be spend on installing and monitoring CCTV cameras in the homes of private citizens. Why? To make sure the kids are doing their homework, going to bed early and eating their vegetables. The scheme has, astonishingly, already been running in 2,000 family homes. The government’s “children’s secretary” Ed Balls is behind the plan, which is aimed at problem, antisocial families. The idea is that, if a child has a more stable home life, he or she will be less likely to stray into crime and drugs. It gets worse. The government is also maintaining a private army, incredibly not called “Thought Police”, which will “be sent round to carry out home checks,” according to the Sunday Express. And in a scheme which firmly cements the nation’s reputation as a “nanny state”, the kids and their families will be forced to sign “behavior contracts” which will “set out parents’ duties to ensure children behave and do their homework.” And remember, this is the left-wing government. The Shadow Home Secretary Chris Grayling, batting for the conservatives, thinks these plans are “too little, and too late,” implying that even more obtrusive work needs to be done. Rumors that a new detention center, named Room 101, is being constructed inside the Ministry of Love are unconfirmed. http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/08/britain-to-put-cctv-cameras-inside-private-homes/ From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Aug 4 18:22:20 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:52:20 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] PM constitutes hi-level Council to advise on UIDAI- 180 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908040552i64b737d1v9fe3912a49fe6bb9@mail.gmail.com> Dear All Now that UIDAI is slowing getting a formal structure. The story from this point onwards, atleast from the government's perspective, may include words like- procedures, processes, roles, responsibilities, zones, deadlines, members, committees, reports, consultations and so on. Without any visible or invisible mass opposition to the idea of a national identity card, it appears as if the government is quietly setting a frame within which public money will be transferred, the industry is quietly putting up infrastructures to meet the demand of a new product, which in standard industry lingo is referred to as 'maal' and the our ever vigilant media organizations which is run by the likes of Sardesais and Dutts and Sanghvis and Guptas and Mehtas and Jains are quietly doing their job by covering events of 'national importance' like Rakhi ka swayamwar- Did you know that Rakhi will not invite her mother? Did you know that Rakhi has forgiven her boyfriend? Did you also know that with the coming up of Elesh, bald is in? Regards Taha PM constitutes hi-level Council to advise on UIDAI http://www.newsonair.com/showNews.asp The Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh has constituted a high level Council to advise the Unique Identification Authority of India, UIDAI. The Council, under the Prime Minister's Chairmanship, will advise the UIDAI on the programme, methodology and implementation to ensure coordination between the various Ministries, stake holders and partners. Apart from several cabinet ministers including the Finance Minister Mr. Pranab Mukherjee, the External Affairs Minister Mr. S.M.Krishna and the Home Minister Mr. P.Chidambaram, the Panel also includes the Deputy Chairman of the Planning Commission Mr. Montek Singh Ahluwalia apart from the chairman of the authority Mr. Nandan Nilekani From asad_abbasi at hotmail.com Tue Aug 4 18:29:48 2009 From: asad_abbasi at hotmail.com (asad abbasi) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 12:59:48 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908040209iade2453m5148550f1269c223@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560908040209iade2453m5148550f1269c223@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Rajan, To be honest, i don't think you understood the article or the mail or may be it was not clear enough for you. It is not a problem involving faith at all. let me try to put it in a different way. It is about a group of people in Pakistan who because of bad policies decades ago are running their own states specially in some rural areas of Sindh, Balouchistan and few urban areas of Punjab. It has no implicit or explicit relation with faith as you have come to understood. There is more to world problems than those faith obsessed people, who blame everything on faith or do everything because of faith. Because some people are allowed to preach their faith but what they lack is freedom to live their lives. Regards, Asad Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 14:39:58 +0530 Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com To: asad_abbasi at hotmail.com CC: reader-list at sarai.net Thanks to secular society and the faith of majority in India which is truely tolerant, this nation is a nation today, is having its few aberrations when the feudal lords get elected to parliament, with divisive politics, but the nation remains united thanks to occasional calamities which unites the society to face them, this inspite of efforts by the pseudo seculars and walking talking nations in this democracy.Ofcourse there are some special citizens who wear the faith on their sleeve for seeking apartments, change faiths for marriage three or four times, to defend the criminals,and media loves to be on their panel to preach morality.! Regards, Rajen. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:59 PM, asad abbasi wrote: Dear All, Nicholas Kristoff in his NY Times blog poses a serious question about the feudal structure in Pakistan. He is right about the feudal lords- as they are called- and their antics to remain in power. They are power of their own, having their own rules. But can Pakistan allow these personal states within her? But if this is the problem why can government not stop it? They may be because the "land owners" are now powerful politicians. There was once a time in England when only land owners had the right to vote, but it is may not be wrong to say that in a country like Pakistan only land owners have the right to say. Pakistan has a cyclical problem. Politicians can break this feudal structure but that would hurt their politics. Will they cut their own leg for greater good of Pakistan? or Pakistan needs to finds a different solution. Warm Regards, Asad http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/01/feudalism-in-pakistan/?pagemode=print I sometimes wonder if what Pakistan doesn’t really need is a good dose of land reform to break up feudal power. The extraordinary inequities in Pakistan seem not only unjust but also an impediment to both economic growth and national consensus. For those who haven’t been to Pakistan, you should know that in remote areas you periodically run into vast estates — comparable to medieval Europe — in which the landowner runs the town, perhaps operates a private prison in which enemies are placed, and sometimes pretty much enslaves local people through debt bondage, generation after generation. This feudal elite has migrated into politics, where it exerts huge influence. And just as the heartlessness of feudal and capitalist barons in the 19th century created space for Communists, so in Pakistan this same lack of compassion for ordinary people seems to create space for Islamic extremists. There are other answers, of course, such as education, civil society, and the lawyers’ movement. But I wonder if land reform wouldn’t be a big help. Dwight Perkins, the great Harvard economist of development, argued that a crucial factor in the rise of East Asia was the land reform and division in countries like Japan and South Korea after World War II, creating a more equal society. (In Japan, this was done under U.S. auspices: we were much more socialist outside our country than in it.) Likewise, India had its own land reform in 1953, but Pakistan was left out. I’ve often focused on education as the greatest need for Pakistan, but even there the feudal structure is replicated. There are first-rate schools in English for the elite, second-rate schools for the strivers, and execrable schools for the masses. At the bad schools, teachers don’t even bother to show up. This highly stratified system tends to perpetuate an ossified economic and social structure, and creates less room for the country to innovate and build or use human capital. But I’m a novice here. Those of you who know Pakistan much better than I — what do you think? Is the feudal land structure a major part of the problem? And if so, is it so entrenched that it’s not even worth dreaming of land reform? Is it more feasible to chip away at the feudal structure by broadening education? I’m all ears. Let me know what you think. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Messenger: Thanks for 10 great years—enjoy free winks and emoticons. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/ _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: -- Rajen. _________________________________________________________________ Upgrade to Internet Explorer 8 Optimised for MSN. http://extras.uk.msn.com/internet-explorer-8/?ocid=T010MSN07A0716U From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Aug 4 18:33:06 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 14:03:06 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] UID: Correlation of data may result in abuse of civil rights- 181 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908040603m1bec92fchbe8a0bc6edb19cbe@mail.gmail.com> Dear All Please do not get enamored by the headline of this opinion piece by an industry man. This is out and out PR story by Kiran Karnik, who is so passionately arguing for UIDAI, that, who knows, Nandu might think of having a golf session with him this weekend. Towards the end of the piece, he writes his two bits for the sake of -objectivity-. I think the credit must go to the ET guy who put the headline in bold. I just so hope that instead of these shoddy PR jobs we could see some genuine debate on NIC in India. Warm regards Taha http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/PoliticsNation/UID-Correlation-of-data-may-result-in-abuse-of-civil-rights/articleshow/4855434.cms UID: Correlation of data may result in abuse of civil rights 4 Aug 2009, 1219 hrs IST, Kiran Karnik, The metaphysical, existential question, “Why am I?” (the purpose of life) has intrigued humans only marginally more than the psychosocial query “Who am I?”. Shakespeare’s answer (“... a rose by any other name would smell as sweet”) would gladden the generics industry, but offend individualists. For those with a taste for the absurd or macabre, the metamorphosis of Kafka’s Gregor Samsa raises deep questions of identity. Now, instead of psychologists, sociologists or philosophers, the government of India will help you answer the question. At long last, after years of dithering, the government is going ahead with the project of providing a single, unique identification for all adult residents of India. Like the TV commercial of a telecom company, multiple, often divisive, identities (caste, religion, region, role) will be subsumed into a single number. While many parameters are yet being defined, few projects anywhere match the scale and complexity of this effort. What is known is that the Unique Identification Authority (UIDA) will itself not, as was commonly presumed, issue any kind of ID card; it will confine its role to providing a number, as a unique identification, to each individual. Identification will be through biometric characteristics: probably multiple-finger prints as also face. To ensure non-duplication, the system must be capable of comparing each new set of biometrics with those already stored, which will ultimately be hundreds of millions, so as to determine if it is unique. Thus, apart from massive data storage, the system must also have the capability of doing such complex comparisons in quick time. In addition, the data will not only need to be backed-up in a disaster recovery site for “business” continuity, but must also be protected from hacking or other security infringements. It is not yet clear whether children will be included and issued an ID; apparently, discussions are on and a decision is yet to be made. Amongst the challenges is the fact that biometrics recorded at this age will change over time. Yet, having an ID for children is critical, for this will enable recording and tracking of individual data on health, education, etc., facilitating follow-up at individual level and appropriate planning at the macro level. Given the importance of this, one hopes that a solution will be found, either technologically or sociologically (for example, through the identity of the mother or guardian). An ID from birth to death will facilitate a whole host of applications. It will make possible the tracking of vaccinations, school entry, health and nutrition status, age at marriage and a range of other parameters. While aggregated data would provide valuable inputs for monitoring specific projects, individual data can be used to ensure appropriate attention to each person. In all this, UIDA’s role will be crucial, but limited to providing the universal , unique ID for residents of India (hopefully, including those below 18 years). It will be for others to evolve and implement various applications. Thus, while creating an ID database is absolutely necessary, true value will emerge only if others use it to do things better and, more interestingly, do new things. More often than not, high valueadded applications will require the working together of different organisations. For example, the simple process of crediting wages into the bank account of a NREGA beneficiary will require that the bank, local administration and NREGA authorities work together, with the UID serving as the base for authentication, payment and opening of bank-account. More complex applications, correlating transactions with an individual, will require greater coordination, access to each other’s databases, and information-flows across organisational or ministerial divides. SUCH applications will necessitate sharing, and occasional ceding, of turf and free flows of information. It will require re-engineering of processes and of organisations; gate-keepers will lose power and many hierarchies will be demolished . Training and change-management will be essential, as will a major shift in mind-set. If this can be handled well, the pay-off can be huge. Transparency, efficiency and accountability will be spinoffs ; better delivery will change the life of the disadvantaged; migrants will get an identity; financial “inclusion” will move from concept to reality. Doubtless, this will have a positive impact on GDP. More importantly, it will be a big step towards greater social and economic equity. These are exciting prospects. What provides hope that they are not mere dreams is one name: Nandan Nilekani. With an outstanding record of entrepreneurship and management, and a clear and optimistic vision, there could be no better choice for this onerous task. Navigating the shoals of bureaucracy and channelising the divergent forces of politics will, of course, pose major challenges. A universal smart-card project has been talked of for many years. Each time, it has floundered on the excessive or proprietary requirements enunciated by various ministries, and the inability of apex levels to get them to agree to minimum commonalities as a basis for moving forward. Persuading various departments and state governments to cooperate with each other and even cede turf is, therefore, not going to be easy. In this, he might find useful the successful experience of organisations like Isro, which has coordinated and orchestrated similar “horizontal” efforts in space applications projects related to education , health, rural development, etc. Along with the immense and obvious potential of UID, one must also note the possible concerns. Prime amongst these is the fact that correlation of all the data about an individual from various databases can easily result in abuse of civil rights. Of course, in these days of security-mania, such individual rights are easily trampled upon, with minimum protest; yet, it is noteworthy that many European countries have safeguards against possible misuse and even in UK, there has been much debate about whether to have a common ID at all. While the US has had a Social Security number for decades, the safeguards against abuse have traditionally been strong. We need serious thought to make sure that UID does not become a means of infringing on individuals’ rights and privacy. (Author is a strategy and policy analyst) From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 18:35:03 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 18:35:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908040209iade2453m5148550f1269c223@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Rajen jee Even Gandhi jee, inspite of being faithful, was not too obsessed to religion like you are. And he used religion in a positive sense (not many know but he asked good Hindus to prove themselves to be good Hindus by fighting against the British rule, in a non-violent way of course). So faith need not always be a problem. And please don't mix issues. I hope in reply to this, you will not send another mail which adds more issues to this, like Manmohan being a transgender, defence scams, media being elitist, RSS being always attacked.....Sach ka Saamna being against Indian culture...blah...blah...blah.... Regards Rakesh From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Aug 4 18:48:30 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 14:18:30 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Time to fast-track national ID system- 182 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908040618o3587309bx111c8a953da9a295@mail.gmail.com> Dear All Now the story below is interesting, one way to look at this story would be applaud at what Nandu is doing, fill our chests with empty air and FEEL that pride of being an Indian, that LOOK even in Jamaica, they are talking about Nandu, The other way, the more sober way, would be to, think and ask, why is it that suddenly we, the citizens of this world are asked to believe that all of us need an unique national identity number? Why now? Why so suddenly? It seems as if the idea of NIC is mutating and replicating itself across the world like a virus. Is it true? What is actually happening here? Who is getting the money? Who all are getting all the contracts? Is it one company? Is it a consortium? How do these people identify a territory, segregate a market, develop a strategy and then penetrate? Seems like a good clean strategy of 'pataoing' a girl, a la Love Aaj Kal , one wonders why is the aam janta, the mango people of this world are being asked to give all their personal/private information to this 'vendor driven' unknown, unfathomable, untraceable network? Regards Taha http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090803/cleisure/cleisure1.html EDITORIAL - Time to fast-track national ID system Published: Monday | August 3, 2009 India wants to know the people who live in the country; that is to say, identifying them not merely as statistics, but as unique individuals. It makes sense. There is no single, nationally recognised identification system in India and the myriad process used by states and various government agencies, which are not always transferable across the country, are riddled with fraud and open to abuse, including identity theft. Delhi mulled over the problem for several years, but was galvanised into action after last year's terrorist attack in Mumbai, amid deepening concern about the ease with which people wishing to do harm might enter the country and infiltrate the country. So serious is Delhi taking the matter that last month Prime Minister Manmohan Singh not only named one of the country's leading IT entrepreneurs, Nandan Nilekani as chairman of the Unique Identification Authority, but gave him Cabinet rank to push through the ID programme. Mr Nilekani expects to begin distributing the first ID cards in the next year to 18 months and to have the country fully registered over the next several years, with unique biometric information on all 1.17 billion Indians on a central database. Iris scan But India is not the only country moving to implement a centralised, national identification system based on biometric information. Last week Mexico's Interior Minister, Fernando Gomez, unveiled plans, to be fully implemented by 2012, to have in the hand of each Mexican a national ID card that carries an iris scan and features of recognition information. Like Mr Nilekani, Mr Gomez highlighted the economic potential of the system in reducing fraud in government support programmes and creating a standard platform for bringing into the formal economy. In India, for instance, millions of people are without bank accounts or can't apply for utilities like electricity because of the lack of formal identification. But Mr Gomez is not lost to the potential of the new system to help confront the country's security crisis, in which drug traffickers, who kill thousands, hide behind fake and/or stolen identities. The point is that the problems that are egging India and Mexico to these technologically driven solutions are not unique to those countries. In Jamaica, our murder rate is over 60 per 100,000, near to the world's highest. Suspects are identified for less than one-third of the over 1,600 homicides here each year, and even fewer cases reach to court. Multiple aliases Yet the authorities suspect that many of the people who commit those crimes do other bad things, while being in contact with the official system. The problem is that they are not identified, given the penchant of Jamaicans to have multiple aliases or 'nicknames'. A national identification system, based on biometric information on a centralised database, potentially offers a big part of the solution. The country's experience with the computerised voter identification system based on fingerprints underlines the possibilities. Voting fraud has reduced dramatically in the past decade and a half. The Government, we feel, should accelerate plans, including the enactment of appropriate legislation for a national ID system. We expect the complaints by civil-liberty advocates about the potential for the abuse and invasion of privacy. However, we have to weigh the benefits against the potential harm. And it can't be beyond us to find the appropriate balance. From c.anupam at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 18:55:20 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 18:55:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] condemning ban on Charandas Chor In-Reply-To: References: <98f331e00908031237o2acdda83i72669b3e06ed43f0@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908032301t2f53b477o8dabf0cd01d63395@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00908040625x2a321369m81f9ee44bc3a3277@mail.gmail.com> dear vidya, Very kind of you to use such words. It shows your knowledge. Rishi Valmiki was a dacoit called Ratnakar or Valia Koli. This is from a children's site ( http://www.bolokids.com/2008/0542.htm) (I am quoting from a children's website because i think you are not matured enough to converse in this forum) *Dear children, I am sure you enjoy reading the biographies of the great visionaries of the world. The bed-time stories which your parents or grand parents tell you, must have some or other reference to the Ramayana, the great epic of India. Do you know the name of the author of this great piece of writing? In this update I shall tell you about that legendary, eminent personality of our country, Valmiki. * Valmiki, universally accepted and applauded as adikavi, the first among the poets – in India and particularly in Sanskrit – was the foremost to ascertain a metrical expression of epic dimension. He had the apparition to match the emotional ecstasy of an elevated soul endowed with compassion and concern for all living beings. It was in such a state of identification of the human being with the universal that his immortal epic, the Ramayana, originated from his heart. Valmiki born as 'Ratnakar' is a legendary Hindu sage . He was the tenth child of Pracheta. There is a religion based on Valmiki's teachings and it is called Balmikism. The Ramayana consists of 24,001 verses in seven cantos (kandas) and tells the story of Rama and Sita. Valmiki Ramayana is dated variously from 500 BC to 100 BC. Maharishi Valmiki is accepted by many Indian communities as the author of the Yoga Vasistha, this particular piece of work was taught to Rama when he was disillusioned with the world in large. The Yoga Vasistha is an incredible piece of text which discusses a wide array of philosphical issues. Moreover, it appears to have been written over 5000 years ago. At his hermitage he taught both males and females. He gave Sita shelter after her banishment from Ayodhya. The great Valmiki, originally named Ratnakar, was from a Kirata Bhil community. Valmiki Muni was from a backward caste community and his name before he became the Adi-Kavi (prime poet) who recorded the Ramayana, was Vailya. He was trained by the Narada Muni, who is thought to be a devotee of Vishnu or *Narayana. In another legend that goes, Valmiki, originally Valia Koli, was a dacoit and a robber who would rob people passing through woods and dense forests. He would not only rob out of their possessions but also cut their ears and wear them in the form of a chain. One fine day, Narada Muni was passing through this forest and Valia Koli happened to confront him. Narada Muni asked Valia if he knows what he is doing. Valia replied saying that it is this which runs his family and the family is aware about it.* Then Narada Muni asked Valia if his family members would share a part of a burden of his sins? Valia was so moved with this, he ran back to his home and asked every member of his family if they will share if the situation demands. No member of the family, neither his wife nor his sons replied in assertive. His wife said that the sins Valia is doing everyday are part of his life and it is his duty to feed his family and it is only he who is responsible for the sins he has been committing. Hearing this, Valia changed himself completely, from a dacoit to a Sage. He returned to Narada Muni and requested him to help enlighten himself, after which he became Sage Valmiki by penance. Once Valmiki was taking a stroll on the bank of the river Tamasa along with his disciple Bharadwaja. The river-water attracted his concentration. The pleasing and composed movement of the waves seemed to remind the prophet of the mature and the reticent qualities of his hero. He visualized the purest spark and tranquil of a pious man’s mind reflected in the flowing stream. But the very next moment he saw a upsetting panorama of a female bird suddenly separated from her partner who was mercilessly shot by a malicious hunter. He could not bear the contrast he perceived between the crystal clear water reflecting a placid heart and the work of a heartless huntsman who shot at the pair of naïve, guiltless birds absorbed in the valid gratification of life for no fault of theirs and to no benefit for him moreover. These two incidents had an impression on his mind and his creative art, which led to his composition of the greatest epic on earth, the Ramayana. It is unfortunate that men of letters know very little about this fêted poet worldwide repute except about his epic composition, the Ramayana. The poet did not say much about himself in his work nor could history keep any documentation and authentic account of his life – not even of the time he lived in. The word Valmika literally means an ant-hill that stands for deep meditation in a poised state of penance. Valmiki, the poet, is a product of this penance. Kalidasa, a great admirer of Valmiki, glorifies this aspect in his famous line in Meghasandesa.The revelation and the influence of Valmiki are seen at their best while portraying the character of Sita as an ideal woman – a sculpt for reticence, a pictogram of sophisticated simplicity, an incarnation of elegance and dignity, an austere observer of moral code of behavior, an exceptional paradigm of ultimate love and a singular amalgamation of valor and kindness. There are three important characters in the Ramayana who made significant contribution to the advancement of the march of Rama from Ayodhya to Mithila, Kishkindha and Lanka. They are Vishwamitra, Lakshmana and Hanuman—and these characters were created by Valmiki with utmost care. The Ramayana, as envisaged by Valmiki, is a stride in search of man – a man whose humanity stands out spirituality by the asset of its translucent transitoriness. Rama, the central figure of this march of cult presents a rare amalgamation of individual decorum and celestial ignite. He kept the sparkle to himself and within himself and widen the bouquet of complete love, warmth, concern, restoration and healing to the planet around him. These are the vital human values and virtues more accomplished than sermonized by Rama, the man of Valmiki’s vision. These traits of the main character by their instinctive penchant dominated almost all the other characters in the Ramayana. Good and bad are only virtual terms for a great soul like Rama. They do not have any unconditional meaning for him from a comprehensive point of view. They can be changed, altered and converted if the human advance is maintained with valor, obligation and kindness. The effect of this policy and the values of life finds abundant design throughout the Ramayana. The creative distinction of Valmiki lies in his genuineness in experience and ease in expression. There is tenderness in his words, equilibrium in his emotions and innate glibness in his commentary. He speaks less and makes his characters articulate for themselves. He has an inherent approach into the soul and a spectacular expertise in restraining the movements and the historic actions of his characters. The secret of his success as an epic poet of predictive vision lies in his all-absorbing penance or tapasya and unassuming firmness. The intermediary and the communication are equally imperative for the epic poet and Valmiki has accomplished both. He never thought that his sincere concern for the pair of birds divided by a cruel shot would result in the magnum oeuvre campaigning the basic human qualities like adoration and compassion. It assumed the form of a world classic with a message for each era to come and for the entire living beings. Valmiki is revered as the first poet, and the Ramayana, the first kavya. ENDS It is a fact that there are several versions of Ramayana written in several languages. Infact, the Prime Minister in waiting L.K. Advani has written about Valmiki: http://lkadvani.in/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5792 My point here is not to cite Ramayana or the mythological stories around its creation. My problem lies with the fact, how a play is being banned selectively by the Chattisgarh government by making tribals as the scapegoat. Just like how many other opportunists operate in that area and cash in on that tribal sentiment. -with regards anupam On 8/4/09, Vidya wrote: > > He was just one of the writers of ramayana. and when he wrote it he was not > a dacoit you ignonramus ass hole. That he was a dacoit is also not proved by > any reliable sources. > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "anupam chakravartty" < > c.anupam at gmail.com> > To: "sarai list" > Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 2:01 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] condemning ban on Charandas Chor > > > The Chattisgarh government perhaps doesnt realise that mythological epic, >> Ramayana was written by a dacoit. >> >> On 8/4/09, prakash ray wrote: >> >>> >>> Press Release condemning ban on Charandas Chor: >>> We are shocked to learn from press reports that the BJP government of >>> Chhattisgarh has banned Charandas Chor, a classic of the modern Indian >>> theatre, written and produced by Habib Tanvir. The play was first done in >>> the 1970s, and is originally based on an oral folk tale from Rajasthan. >>> Habib Tanvir worked on this tale, introducing into it elements of the art >>> and beliefs of the Satnami community. Satnami singers and dancers have >>> performed in this play, and it has been seen by members of the community >>> several times. In Chhattisgarh and Madhya Pradesh, there are several >>> rural >>> troupes who are today performing some version of this play. >>> >>> The play itself is the story of a thief who, under the influence of a >>> guru, >>> pledges never to tell a lie. He sticks to his pledge, even at the cost of >>> his life. This superb tragic-comedy, in a thoroughly entertaining and >>> artistic manner, brings into focus the moral and ethical degeneration of >>> our >>> society, in which, paradoxically, it is a thief who ends up being more >>> honest than those who supposed to be the custodians of our morality. >>> >>> Charandas Chor remains Habib Tanvir’s best-known play, and has been >>> performed literally hundreds of times by his world-renowned Naya Theatre >>> troupe all over India and in several countries across the world. It was >>> made >>> into a film by Shyam Benegal, with Smita Patil in the lead, in 1975, and >>> was >>> the first Indian play to win the prestigious Fringe First award at the >>> Edinburgh Theatre Festival in 1982. It then did a successful run on the >>> London stage. >>> >>> We demand that the Chhattisgarh government immediately revoke this absurd >>> ban. >>> >>> Arvind Gaur >>> Brijesh >>> Govind Deshpande >>> Javed Malick >>> Madangopal Singh >>> M.K. Raina >>> Moloyashree Hashmi >>> N.K. Sharma >>> Shahid Anwar >>> Sudhanva Deshpande >>> Vivan Sundaram >>> Wamiq Abbasi >>> Act One Theatre Group >>> Asmita Theatre Group >>> Bahroop Art Group >>> Jana Natya Manch >>> Jan Sanskriti >>> Janvadi Lekhak Sangh >>> Sahmat >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Tue Aug 4 19:19:36 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 06:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Habib Tanvir's play banned in Chhattisgarh In-Reply-To: <98f331e00908030447i6aa6b520q8fdb4a79e0625c71@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <431956.24302.qm@web53603.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Does anyone know what exactly does the Satnami community find objectionable in the play? --- On Mon, 8/3/09, prakash ray wrote: > From: prakash ray > Subject: [Reader-list] Habib Tanvir's play banned in Chhattisgarh > To: reader-list at sarai.net > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 5:17 PM > Charandas Chor, the famous play of > Habib Saheb is banned by the Chhattisgarh > govt. > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=India&id=ad4622e2-14fa-4758-9560-988d1d07029f&Headline=Chhattisgarh+bans+Habib+Tanvir%E2%80%99s+masterpiece+EMCharandas+ChorEM > > a true fascist tribute to the master. > > PKR > www.cinemela.youthv.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Tue Aug 4 20:33:40 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 08:03:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] India tells UNICEF to stop nutrition relief aid Message-ID: <695090.98608.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Strange! Does GOI fund Unicef?If no then whats the point of this statement- "The Ministry for Women and Child Development said UNICEF had not informed the government about importing $2.4 million worth of RUTF in 2008 and said the money could have been spent elsewhere." http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSDEL499363 India tells UNICEF to stop nutrition relief aid Tue Aug 4, 2009 9:06am EDT By Matthias Williams NEW DELHI, Aug 4 (Reuters) - India has asked UNICEF to stop distributing millions of dollars worth of nutrition aid to children, saying it had been done without permission and at the expense of local food to fight hunger. The United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) said it had given severely malnourished children in two Indian states, Bihar and Madhya Pradesh, high energy relief treatment known as "Ready to Use Therapeutic Food" (RUTF). It said food provided locally was not enough for the children in a critical condition. India, home to the most malnourished children in the world, grapples with a yawning wealth gap as years of high GDP growth and rising world status did not trickle down to millions of poor. The Ministry for Women and Child Development said UNICEF had not informed the government about importing $2.4 million worth of RUTF in 2008 and said the money could have been spent elsewhere. "Such actions should not happen. Whatever they (UNICEF) have done, the damage should be contained and they should ship out (the RUTF). And their future action should be matched by their words," Joint Secretary Shreeranjan said. "I can understand their sympathies, but sometimes emotions cannot sweep away the procedure and protocol involved." Shreeranjan said the product's effectiveness was not widely accepted and the health ministry should first approve it. "Nothing should come behind our back. Nothing should be done in the name of emergency when we have not declared emergency." UNICEF, which said it had a "strong working relationship" with the ministry, promotes the product as a life-saver in Sub-Saharan Africa. "Children with severe acute malnutrition are at risk of imminent death and need immediate, life-saving treatment," UNICEF responded in a statement, adding the treatment was sanctioned by the World Health Organisation. "Family foods or supplementary foods are not enough; these children need very specific treatment for their condition." UNICEF said in a June report the global slowdown and high food and fuel prices had helped add 100 million hungry people to South Asia in the past two years. UNICEF said more than 400 million are chronically hungry in the region -- the highest level in 40 years -- in Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Bhutan, India, the Maldives, Nepal, Pakistan and Sri Lanka. (Editing by Sanjeev Miglani) From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 22:53:19 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 22:53:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Presentation on Social Media! Message-ID: http://www.digitalbuzzblog.com/social-media-has-grown-up-stats-one-year-on/ From tanyasingh22 at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 01:46:47 2009 From: tanyasingh22 at gmail.com (Tanya Singh) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 21:16:47 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Britain To Put CCTV Cameras Inside Private Homes In-Reply-To: <4439ee330908040433y6ba9270epb17d7472bad5b04e@mail.gmail.com> References: <4439ee330908040433y6ba9270epb17d7472bad5b04e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <645b9f210908041316l46d908b9mc50bfabbff366b1a@mail.gmail.com> I wouldn't take this seriously - the source is some spurious 'journalism' in The Sunday Express. Variations on this story have been floating around for a few years, with no real basis. Scare-mongering tabloid trash, is all... Tx 2009/8/4 Nishant : > Britain To Put CCTV Cameras Inside Private Homes > By Charlie Sorrel > > As an ex-Brit, I’m well aware of the authorities’ love of surveillance > and snooping, but even I, a pessimistic cynic, am amazed by the > governments latest plan: to install Orwell’s telescreens in 20,000 > homes. > > £400 million ($668 million) will be spend on installing and monitoring > CCTV cameras in the homes of private citizens. Why? To make sure the > kids are doing their homework, going to bed early and eating their > vegetables. The scheme has, astonishingly, already been running in > 2,000 family homes. The government’s “children’s secretary” Ed Balls > is behind the plan, which is aimed at problem, antisocial families. > The idea is that, if a child has a more stable home life, he or she > will be less likely to stray into crime and drugs. > > It gets worse. The government is also maintaining a private army, > incredibly not called “Thought Police”, which will “be sent round to > carry out home checks,” according to the Sunday Express. And in a > scheme which firmly cements the nation’s reputation as a “nanny > state”, the kids and their families will be forced to sign “behavior > contracts” which will “set out parents’ duties to ensure children > behave and do their homework.” > > And remember, this is the left-wing government. The Shadow Home > Secretary Chris Grayling, batting for the conservatives, thinks these > plans are “too little, and too late,” implying that even more > obtrusive work needs to be done. Rumors that a new detention center, > named Room 101, is being constructed inside the Ministry of Love are > unconfirmed. > > http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/08/britain-to-put-cctv-cameras-inside-private-homes/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 05:41:02 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 05:41:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India tells UNICEF to stop nutrition relief aid In-Reply-To: <695090.98608.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <695090.98608.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Rahul >From what I have read about RUTF as of now, it doesn't seem to be a bad thing. It's recommended for severe cases of malnutrition with the idea of quick gain in weight, provided proper methods are used for the same. In connection to this, I also put the following link: http://www.compactforlife.com/malnutrition-treatment/?gclid=CJ2uiZSbi5wCFZYtpAodpBToYw And for the govt, my straight answer would be that protocol and procedures are no hindrance for someone trying to do good for the society. They shouldn't be one. Thanks for posting the article. Regards Rakesh From murali.chalam at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 09:36:54 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 09:36:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908040209iade2453m5148550f1269c223@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908042106u2758d3acy46a72e53a547e5a0@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh Ji, Here are some of the very word of Gandhi. On Conversion and In this respect, it is very pertinent to read what Mahatma Gandhi said during his time. "If instead of confining themselves purely to humanitarian work such as education, medical services to the poor and the like, they would use these activities of their for the purpose of proselytising, I would certainly like them to withdraw. Every nation considers its own faith to be as good as that of any other. Certainly the great faiths held by the people of India are Adequate for her people. India stands in no need of conversion from one faith to another." (M. K. Gandhi, "Foreign Missionaries," Young India, April 23, 1931, p.83.)" Just how strongly Gandhi felt about Christian missionaries in India can be gauged from his recorded comments: "If I had the power and could legislate, I should certainly stop all proselytising. " 1. Gandhi's writing: "The effect of Christianity upon India in general...has been disastrous." Shourie, p.6) 2. Gandhi to Krezenski, a visiting professor of Philosophy from Poland, who had told him that Catholicism was the only true religion : "The idea of conversion, I assure you is the deadliest poison that ever sapped the fountain of truth." (Shourie, p.11) 3. Gandhi to a visiting missionary nurse: "The other day a missionary descended on a famine area with money in his pocket, distributed it among the famine-stricken, converted them to his fold, took charge of their temple and demolished it. This is outrageous. This friend goes and gets it demolished at the hands of the very men who only a little while ago believed that God was there." (Shourie, p. 17) 4. Gandhiji: "If I had the power and could legislate, I should certainly stop all proselytising." (Collected Works, Vol 61, page 46-47; Shourie, p. 38). 5. Several missionaries tried to convert Gandhi. When they failed, one of the reverend gentlemen, writes Mahadev Desai, "retired with the imprecation...'Mr. Gandhi, soon there will come a day when you will be judged, not in your righteousness, but in the righteousness of Jesus.' " (Collected Works, Vol 60, p.323; Shourie, p. 240) Gandhiji drew attention to it again and again. The services were incidental. They were the means. The objective was to convert the natives to Christianity. "The Collected Works of Gandhi" contain several accounts as do Mahadev Desai's "Diaries" in which missionaries acknowledged to Gandhiji that the institutions and services are incidental, that the aim is to gather a fuller harvest of converts for the Church. Our father of the nation, Mahatma Gandhi, with all his religious tolerance, was extremely articulate in opposing the conversion activities of Christian missionaries in India and questioned their motives in establishing educational institutions and other services in India. Just how strongly Gandhi felt about Christian missionaries in India can be gauged from his following recorded comment: Gandhiji: "If I had the power and could legislate, I should certainly stop all proselytising." (Collected Works, Vol 61, page 46-47;) Regards, V Murali On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:35 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Rajen jee > > Even Gandhi jee, inspite of being faithful, was not too obsessed to > religion > like you are. And he used religion in a positive sense (not many know but > he > asked good Hindus to prove themselves to be good Hindus by fighting against > the British rule, in a non-violent way of course). > > So faith need not always be a problem. And please don't mix issues. I hope > in reply to this, you will not send another mail which adds more issues to > this, like Manmohan being a transgender, defence scams, media being > elitist, > RSS being always attacked.....Sach ka Saamna being against Indian > culture...blah...blah...blah.... > > Regards > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 10:43:00 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 10:43:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] GiveIndia Presentation - The Need for Giving in India Message-ID: My tweet on this presentation at *****FundACause ** - * I strongly recommend that you view (& share) the presentation that @ GiveIndia (a philanthropic exchange) made at the UN: http://bit.ly/PMiN9 - Chandni From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 11:51:48 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:51:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908042106u2758d3acy46a72e53a547e5a0@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560908040209iade2453m5148550f1269c223@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908042106u2758d3acy46a72e53a547e5a0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908042321y3a41da88ma21df3a82f068b84@mail.gmail.com> Dear Murali, for many spokespersons, self appointed, that is, like Rakesh, in the hope of catching the grace of prince charming to be in politics, the only way to reply is brand others as "religious" and it is his right to perceive me as he prefers, I need not clarify or assent or disagree with him about my person being religious which I am not. For me , God is in all living beings, not in any place of worships, as these place of worships are only reflection of their "shraddha", (devotion does not comprehend all the intricacies of the word shraddha) in their faiths. I prefer to use the words which convey full meanings as English is foreign to me,use it for good for communication to the extent possible with words known to me. As to his conclusion that "obsession" of mine, it is his learned opinion which he has right to rightly or otherwise. As to the post of the learned friend, Abbasi, it is a fact that in any nation, inspite of democratic rule, the feudal lords always hold the power, for their gains, belonging to different faiths, castes and clans, even in India, yadav, reddy and gowdas are too many to mention, and ofcourse who can overlook a owaisi, anthony and many who camouflage the faith with common names in circulation like rahul Roberto maino or a priyanka Elisabeth Vadhra or a mahesh batt..? In Pakistan, the fuedal lords lord over the system much more than in this nation in their area of command.This is a major difference in the nations of Pakistan and India. It is amusing that when I reiterate that good of governance shall be to all, no to discrimination on the basis of faith, caste and region, that these spokespersons become super active.? Regards, Rajen. On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Murali V wrote: > Dear Rakesh Ji, > > Here are some of the very word of Gandhi. > On Conversion and In this respect, it is very pertinent to read what > Mahatma > Gandhi said during his time. "If instead of confining themselves purely to > humanitarian work such as education, medical services to the poor and the > like, they would use these activities of their for the purpose of > proselytising, I would certainly like them to withdraw. Every nation > considers its own faith to be as good as that of any other. Certainly the > great faiths held by the people of India are Adequate for her people. > India > stands in no need of conversion from one faith to another." (M. K. Gandhi, > "Foreign Missionaries," Young India, April 23, 1931, p.83.)" > > Just how strongly Gandhi felt about Christian missionaries in India can be > gauged from his recorded comments: "If I had the power and could legislate, > I should certainly stop all proselytising. > " 1. Gandhi's writing: "The effect of Christianity upon India in > general...has been disastrous." Shourie, p.6) > < > http://www.ndtvgoodtimes.com/mb/readreply.asp?topicid=990&id=917103&tablename=News > > > 2. Gandhi to Krezenski, a visiting professor of Philosophy from Poland, who > had told him that Catholicism was the only true religion : "The idea of > conversion, I assure you is the deadliest poison that ever sapped the > fountain of truth." (Shourie, p.11) > < > http://www.ndtvgoodtimes.com/mb/readreply.asp?topicid=990&id=917103&tablename=News > > > 3. Gandhi to a visiting missionary nurse: "The other day a missionary > descended on a famine area with money in his pocket, distributed it among > the famine-stricken, converted them to his fold, took charge of their > temple > and demolished it. This is outrageous. This friend goes and gets it > demolished at the hands of the very men who only a little while ago > believed > that God was there." (Shourie, p. 17) > < > http://www.ndtvgoodtimes.com/mb/readreply.asp?topicid=990&id=917103&tablename=News > > > 4. Gandhiji: "If I had the power and could legislate, I should certainly > stop all proselytising." (Collected Works, Vol 61, page 46-47; Shourie, p. > 38). > < > http://www.ndtvgoodtimes.com/mb/readreply.asp?topicid=990&id=917103&tablename=News > > > 5. Several missionaries tried to convert Gandhi. When they failed, one of > the reverend gentlemen, writes Mahadev Desai, "retired with the > imprecation...'Mr. Gandhi, soon there will come a day when you will be > judged, not in your righteousness, but in the righteousness of Jesus.' " > (Collected Works, Vol 60, p.323; Shourie, p. 240) Gandhiji drew attention > to > it again and again. The services were incidental. They were the means. The > objective was to convert the natives to Christianity. "The Collected Works > of Gandhi" contain several accounts as do Mahadev Desai's "Diaries" in > which > missionaries acknowledged to Gandhiji that the institutions and services > are > incidental, that the aim is to gather a fuller harvest of converts for the > Church. Our father of the nation, Mahatma Gandhi, with all his religious > tolerance, was extremely articulate in opposing the conversion activities > of > Christian missionaries in India and questioned their motives in > establishing > educational institutions and other services in India. Just how strongly > Gandhi felt about Christian missionaries in India can be gauged from his > following recorded comment: Gandhiji: "If I had the power and could > legislate, I should certainly stop all proselytising." (Collected Works, > Vol > 61, page 46-47;)< > http://www.ndtvgoodtimes.com/mb/readreply.asp?topicid=990&id=917103&tablename=News > > > > Regards, > V Murali > On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:35 PM, Rakesh Iyer > wrote: > > > Dear Rajen jee > > > > Even Gandhi jee, inspite of being faithful, was not too obsessed to > > religion > > like you are. And he used religion in a positive sense (not many know but > > he > > asked good Hindus to prove themselves to be good Hindus by fighting > against > > the British rule, in a non-violent way of course). > > > > So faith need not always be a problem. And please don't mix issues. I > hope > > in reply to this, you will not send another mail which adds more issues > to > > this, like Manmohan being a transgender, defence scams, media being > > elitist, > > RSS being always attacked.....Sach ka Saamna being against Indian > > culture...blah...blah...blah.... > > > > Regards > > > > Rakesh > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 11:59:20 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:59:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India tells UNICEF to stop nutrition relief aid In-Reply-To: References: <695090.98608.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908042329r3c340f1ex72469cb192e8ab84@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, news reports in Deccan heral" talks of millions of tonnes of rotting turdal in the ports for want of clearing by the central PSUs who imported them, Minister Pawar pleading ignorance of the import. As to Rakesh suggestion, to provide links, he can as well do that by going to the site of the news paper as I am no expert in this as he is. Kuldeep Nayyar is much more than just a journalists, who has seen India and its progress and fall in grace after 1947, genuinely feels for the media which has chosen to be businesses. Regards, Rajen. On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 5:41 AM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Rahul > > From what I have read about RUTF as of now, it doesn't seem to be a bad > thing. It's recommended for severe cases of malnutrition with the idea of > quick gain in weight, provided proper methods are used for the same. In > connection to this, I also put the following link: > > > http://www.compactforlife.com/malnutrition-treatment/?gclid=CJ2uiZSbi5wCFZYtpAodpBToYw > > And for the govt, my straight answer would be that protocol and procedures > are no hindrance for someone trying to do good for the society. They > shouldn't be one. > > Thanks for posting the article. > > Regards > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajen. From murali.chalam at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 12:02:00 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:02:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908042321y3a41da88ma21df3a82f068b84@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560908040209iade2453m5148550f1269c223@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908042106u2758d3acy46a72e53a547e5a0@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908042321y3a41da88ma21df3a82f068b84@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908042332k6d30533au765d2ceea38ff60d@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rajen, I fully agree with you, that devotion by worshiping in temples is alone not a true reflection of ones goodness. I believe in a way of living which is driven by my conscience and which will never interfere or affect others. At the same time I will not sit and watch all the aspersions cast by the pseudo-seculars on devout followers of the faith "Way of living". Regards, V Murali On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear Murali, for many spokespersons, self appointed, that is, like > Rakesh, in the hope of catching the grace of prince charming to be in > politics, the only way to reply is brand others as "religious" and it is his > right to perceive me as he prefers, I need not clarify or assent or disagree > with him about my person being religious which I am not. > For me , God is in all living beings, not in any place of worships, > as these place of worships are only reflection of their "shraddha", > (devotion does not comprehend all the intricacies of the word shraddha) in > their faiths. I prefer to use the words which convey full meanings as > English is foreign to me,use it for good for communication to the extent > possible with words known to me. > > As to his conclusion that "obsession" of mine, it is his learned opinion > which he has right to rightly or otherwise. > > As to the post of the learned friend, Abbasi, it is a fact that in any > nation, inspite of democratic rule, the feudal lords always hold the power, > for their gains, belonging to different faiths, castes and clans, even in > India, yadav, reddy and gowdas are too many to mention, and ofcourse who can > overlook a owaisi, anthony and many who camouflage the faith with common > names in circulation like rahul Roberto maino or a priyanka Elisabeth Vadhra > or a mahesh batt..? In Pakistan, the fuedal lords lord over the system much > more than in this nation in their area of command.This is a major difference > in the nations of Pakistan and India. > > It is amusing that when I reiterate that good of governance shall be to > all, no to discrimination on the basis of faith, caste and region, that > these spokespersons become super active.? > > Regards, > > Rajen. > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Murali V wrote: > >> Dear Rakesh Ji, >> >> Here are some of the very word of Gandhi. >> On Conversion and In this respect, it is very pertinent to read what >> Mahatma >> Gandhi said during his time. "If instead of confining themselves purely to >> humanitarian work such as education, medical services to the poor and the >> like, they would use these activities of their for the purpose of >> proselytising, I would certainly like them to withdraw. Every nation >> considers its own faith to be as good as that of any other. Certainly the >> great faiths held by the people of India are Adequate for her people. >> India >> stands in no need of conversion from one faith to another." (M. K. >> Gandhi, >> "Foreign Missionaries," Young India, April 23, 1931, p.83.)" >> >> Just how strongly Gandhi felt about Christian missionaries in India can be >> gauged from his recorded comments: "If I had the power and could >> legislate, >> I should certainly stop all proselytising. >> " 1. Gandhi's writing: "The effect of Christianity upon India in >> general...has been disastrous." Shourie, p.6) >> < >> http://www.ndtvgoodtimes.com/mb/readreply.asp?topicid=990&id=917103&tablename=News >> > >> 2. Gandhi to Krezenski, a visiting professor of Philosophy from Poland, >> who >> had told him that Catholicism was the only true religion : "The idea of >> conversion, I assure you is the deadliest poison that ever sapped the >> fountain of truth." (Shourie, p.11) >> < >> http://www.ndtvgoodtimes.com/mb/readreply.asp?topicid=990&id=917103&tablename=News >> > >> 3. Gandhi to a visiting missionary nurse: "The other day a missionary >> descended on a famine area with money in his pocket, distributed it among >> the famine-stricken, converted them to his fold, took charge of their >> temple >> and demolished it. This is outrageous. This friend goes and gets it >> demolished at the hands of the very men who only a little while ago >> believed >> that God was there." (Shourie, p. 17) >> < >> http://www.ndtvgoodtimes.com/mb/readreply.asp?topicid=990&id=917103&tablename=News >> > >> 4. Gandhiji: "If I had the power and could legislate, I should certainly >> stop all proselytising." (Collected Works, Vol 61, page 46-47; Shourie, p. >> 38). >> < >> http://www.ndtvgoodtimes.com/mb/readreply.asp?topicid=990&id=917103&tablename=News >> > >> 5. Several missionaries tried to convert Gandhi. When they failed, one of >> the reverend gentlemen, writes Mahadev Desai, "retired with the >> imprecation...'Mr. Gandhi, soon there will come a day when you will be >> judged, not in your righteousness, but in the righteousness of Jesus.' " >> (Collected Works, Vol 60, p.323; Shourie, p. 240) Gandhiji drew attention >> to >> it again and again. The services were incidental. They were the means. The >> objective was to convert the natives to Christianity. "The Collected Works >> of Gandhi" contain several accounts as do Mahadev Desai's "Diaries" in >> which >> missionaries acknowledged to Gandhiji that the institutions and services >> are >> incidental, that the aim is to gather a fuller harvest of converts for the >> Church. Our father of the nation, Mahatma Gandhi, with all his religious >> tolerance, was extremely articulate in opposing the conversion activities >> of >> Christian missionaries in India and questioned their motives in >> establishing >> educational institutions and other services in India. Just how strongly >> Gandhi felt about Christian missionaries in India can be gauged from his >> following recorded comment: Gandhiji: "If I had the power and could >> legislate, I should certainly stop all proselytising." (Collected Works, >> Vol >> 61, page 46-47;)< >> http://www.ndtvgoodtimes.com/mb/readreply.asp?topicid=990&id=917103&tablename=News >> > >> >> >> Regards, >> V Murali >> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:35 PM, Rakesh Iyer >> wrote: >> >> > Dear Rajen jee >> > >> > Even Gandhi jee, inspite of being faithful, was not too obsessed to >> > religion >> > like you are. And he used religion in a positive sense (not many know >> but >> > he >> > asked good Hindus to prove themselves to be good Hindus by fighting >> against >> > the British rule, in a non-violent way of course). >> > >> > So faith need not always be a problem. And please don't mix issues. I >> hope >> > in reply to this, you will not send another mail which adds more issues >> to >> > this, like Manmohan being a transgender, defence scams, media being >> > elitist, >> > RSS being always attacked.....Sach ka Saamna being against Indian >> > culture...blah...blah...blah.... >> > >> > Regards >> > >> > Rakesh >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > Rajen. > > From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 12:07:48 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:07:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Britain To Put CCTV Cameras Inside Private Homes In-Reply-To: <645b9f210908041316l46d908b9mc50bfabbff366b1a@mail.gmail.com> References: <4439ee330908040433y6ba9270epb17d7472bad5b04e@mail.gmail.com> <645b9f210908041316l46d908b9mc50bfabbff366b1a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908042337m452a96csf404ffbf3479a6a1@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, Media can give spin to any story for it has enough blacksheep in its fold, pimps and prostitutes have also a news paper to teach morals and ethics of life and create thehelka, selectively, to selected political parties, but it takes much more than five crores to catch the MP of the oldest party.! Conviction of MP RK Anand, now accusation on Buta singh and Virbhadra singh are pointers which never came on the radar of these media men.!.But Bangaru accepting one lakh for "new year party" as per the pimps words is big thehelka.! Hoodwinking the supreme court in release of freezed amounts from London bank by constitutional authorities, is no news for the thehelka.! Regards, Rajem n.On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 1:46 AM, Tanya Singh wrote: > I wouldn't take this seriously - the source is some spurious > 'journalism' in The Sunday Express. Variations on this story have been > floating around for a few years, with no real basis. Scare-mongering > tabloid trash, is all... Tx > > > > 2009/8/4 Nishant : > > Britain To Put CCTV Cameras Inside Private Homes > > By Charlie Sorrel > > > > As an ex-Brit, I’m well aware of the authorities’ love of surveillance > > and snooping, but even I, a pessimistic cynic, am amazed by the > > governments latest plan: to install Orwell’s telescreens in 20,000 > > homes. > > > > £400 million ($668 million) will be spend on installing and monitoring > > CCTV cameras in the homes of private citizens. Why? To make sure the > > kids are doing their homework, going to bed early and eating their > > vegetables. The scheme has, astonishingly, already been running in > > 2,000 family homes. The government’s “children’s secretary” Ed Balls > > is behind the plan, which is aimed at problem, antisocial families. > > The idea is that, if a child has a more stable home life, he or she > > will be less likely to stray into crime and drugs. > > > > It gets worse. The government is also maintaining a private army, > > incredibly not called “Thought Police”, which will “be sent round to > > carry out home checks,” according to the Sunday Express. And in a > > scheme which firmly cements the nation’s reputation as a “nanny > > state”, the kids and their families will be forced to sign “behavior > > contracts” which will “set out parents’ duties to ensure children > > behave and do their homework.” > > > > And remember, this is the left-wing government. The Shadow Home > > Secretary Chris Grayling, batting for the conservatives, thinks these > > plans are “too little, and too late,” implying that even more > > obtrusive work needs to be done. Rumors that a new detention center, > > named Room 101, is being constructed inside the Ministry of Love are > > unconfirmed. > > > > > http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/08/britain-to-put-cctv-cameras-inside-private-homes/ > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 12:12:09 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:12:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] condemning ban on Charandas Chor In-Reply-To: <341380d00908040625x2a321369m81f9ee44bc3a3277@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00908031237o2acdda83i72669b3e06ed43f0@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908032301t2f53b477o8dabf0cd01d63395@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908040625x2a321369m81f9ee44bc3a3277@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908042342x2f070d32s2941762e9eeb38c2@mail.gmail.com> Dear Anupam jee, Origin of a river, past of an ascetic, mind of a woman are difficult to understand, so do not try say the wise. When ramayana was written, the writer was a changed persona, will you atleast acknowledge that.......! Regards, Rajen. On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:55 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > dear vidya, > > Very kind of you to use such words. It shows your knowledge. Rishi Valmiki > was a dacoit called Ratnakar or Valia Koli. This is from a children's site > ( > http://www.bolokids.com/2008/0542.htm) (I am quoting from a children's > website because i think you are not matured enough to converse in this > forum) > > *Dear children, > > I am sure you enjoy reading the biographies of the great visionaries of the > world. The bed-time stories which your parents or grand parents tell you, > must have some or other reference to the Ramayana, the great epic of India. > Do you know the name of the author of this great piece of writing? In this > update I shall tell you about that legendary, eminent personality of our > country, Valmiki. * > > Valmiki, universally accepted and applauded as adikavi, the first among the > poets – in India and particularly in Sanskrit – was the foremost to > ascertain a metrical expression of epic dimension. He had the apparition to > match the emotional ecstasy of an elevated soul endowed with compassion and > concern for all living beings. It was in such a state of identification of > the human being with the universal that his immortal epic, the Ramayana, > originated from his heart. > > Valmiki born as 'Ratnakar' is a legendary Hindu sage . He was the tenth > child of Pracheta. There is a religion based on Valmiki's teachings and it > is called Balmikism. The Ramayana consists of 24,001 verses in seven cantos > (kandas) and tells the story of Rama and Sita. Valmiki Ramayana is dated > variously from 500 BC to 100 BC. > > Maharishi Valmiki is accepted by many Indian communities as the author of > the Yoga Vasistha, this particular piece of work was taught to Rama when he > was disillusioned with the world in large. The Yoga Vasistha is an > incredible piece of text which discusses a wide array of philosphical > issues. Moreover, it appears to have been written over 5000 years ago. At > his hermitage he taught both males and females. He gave Sita shelter after > her banishment from Ayodhya. > > The great Valmiki, originally named Ratnakar, was from a Kirata Bhil > community. Valmiki Muni was from a backward caste community and his name > before he became the Adi-Kavi (prime poet) who recorded the Ramayana, was > Vailya. He was trained by the Narada Muni, who is thought to be a devotee > of > Vishnu or *Narayana. In another legend that goes, Valmiki, originally Valia > Koli, was a dacoit and a robber who would rob people passing through woods > and dense forests. He would not only rob out of their possessions but also > cut their ears and wear them in the form of a chain. One fine day, Narada > Muni was passing through this forest and Valia Koli happened to confront > him. Narada Muni asked Valia if he knows what he is doing. Valia replied > saying that it is this which runs his family and the family is aware about > it.* Then Narada Muni asked Valia if his family members would share a part > of a burden of his sins? Valia was so moved with this, he ran back to his > home and asked every member of his family if they will share if the > situation demands. No member of the family, neither his wife nor his sons > replied in assertive. His wife said that the sins Valia is doing everyday > are part of his life and it is his duty to feed his family and it is only > he > who is responsible for the sins he has been committing. Hearing this, Valia > changed himself completely, from a dacoit to a Sage. He returned to Narada > Muni and requested him to help enlighten himself, after which he became > Sage > Valmiki by penance. > > Once Valmiki was taking a stroll on the bank of the river Tamasa along with > his disciple Bharadwaja. The river-water attracted his concentration. The > pleasing and composed movement of the waves seemed to remind the prophet of > the mature and the reticent qualities of his hero. He visualized the purest > spark and tranquil of a pious man’s mind reflected in the flowing stream. > But the very next moment he saw a upsetting panorama of a female bird > suddenly separated from her partner who was mercilessly shot by a malicious > hunter. He could not bear the contrast he perceived between the crystal > clear water reflecting a placid heart and the work of a heartless huntsman > who shot at the pair of naïve, guiltless birds absorbed in the valid > gratification of life for no fault of theirs and to no benefit for him > moreover. These two incidents had an impression on his mind and his > creative > art, which led to his composition of the greatest epic on earth, the > Ramayana. > > It is unfortunate that men of letters know very little about this fêted > poet > worldwide repute except about his epic composition, the Ramayana. The poet > did not say much about himself in his work nor could history keep any > documentation and authentic account of his life – not even of the time he > lived in. The word Valmika literally means an ant-hill that stands for deep > meditation in a poised state of penance. Valmiki, the poet, is a product of > this penance. Kalidasa, a great admirer of Valmiki, glorifies this aspect > in > his famous line in Meghasandesa.The revelation and the influence of Valmiki > are seen at their best while portraying the character of Sita as an ideal > woman – a sculpt for reticence, a pictogram of sophisticated simplicity, an > incarnation of elegance and dignity, an austere observer of moral code of > behavior, an exceptional paradigm of ultimate love and a singular > amalgamation of valor and kindness. There are three important characters in > the Ramayana who made significant contribution to the advancement of the > march of Rama from Ayodhya to Mithila, Kishkindha and Lanka. They are > Vishwamitra, Lakshmana and Hanuman—and these characters were created by > Valmiki with utmost care. > > The Ramayana, as envisaged by Valmiki, is a stride in search of man – a man > whose humanity stands out spirituality by the asset of its translucent > transitoriness. Rama, the central figure of this march of cult presents a > rare amalgamation of individual decorum and celestial ignite. He kept the > sparkle to himself and within himself and widen the bouquet of complete > love, warmth, concern, restoration and healing to the planet around him. > These are the vital human values and virtues more accomplished than > sermonized by Rama, the man of Valmiki’s vision. These traits of the main > character by their instinctive penchant dominated almost all the other > characters in the Ramayana. Good and bad are only virtual terms for a great > soul like Rama. They do not have any unconditional meaning for him from a > comprehensive point of view. They can be changed, altered and converted if > the human advance is maintained with valor, obligation and kindness. The > effect of this policy and the values of life finds abundant design > throughout the Ramayana. > > The creative distinction of Valmiki lies in his genuineness in experience > and ease in expression. There is tenderness in his words, equilibrium in > his > emotions and innate glibness in his commentary. He speaks less and makes > his > characters articulate for themselves. He has an inherent approach into the > soul and a spectacular expertise in restraining the movements and the > historic actions of his characters. The secret of his success as an epic > poet of predictive vision lies in his all-absorbing penance or tapasya and > unassuming firmness. > > The intermediary and the communication are equally imperative for the epic > poet and Valmiki has accomplished both. He never thought that his sincere > concern for the pair of birds divided by a cruel shot would result in the > magnum oeuvre campaigning the basic human qualities like adoration and > compassion. It assumed the form of a world classic with a message for each > era to come and for the entire living beings. Valmiki is revered as the > first poet, and the Ramayana, the first kavya. > > ENDS > > It is a fact that there are several versions of Ramayana written in several > languages. Infact, the Prime Minister in waiting L.K. Advani has written > about Valmiki: http://lkadvani.in/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5792 > My point here is not to cite Ramayana or the mythological stories around > its > creation. My problem lies with the fact, how a play is being banned > selectively by the Chattisgarh government by making tribals as the > scapegoat. Just like how many other opportunists operate in that area > and cash in on that tribal sentiment. > > -with regards > anupam > > On 8/4/09, Vidya wrote: > > > > He was just one of the writers of ramayana. and when he wrote it he was > not > > a dacoit you ignonramus ass hole. That he was a dacoit is also not proved > by > > any reliable sources. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "anupam chakravartty" < > > c.anupam at gmail.com> > > To: "sarai list" > > Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 2:01 AM > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] condemning ban on Charandas Chor > > > > > > The Chattisgarh government perhaps doesnt realise that mythological epic, > >> Ramayana was written by a dacoit. > >> > >> On 8/4/09, prakash ray wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> Press Release condemning ban on Charandas Chor: > >>> We are shocked to learn from press reports that the BJP government of > >>> Chhattisgarh has banned Charandas Chor, a classic of the modern Indian > >>> theatre, written and produced by Habib Tanvir. The play was first done > in > >>> the 1970s, and is originally based on an oral folk tale from Rajasthan. > >>> Habib Tanvir worked on this tale, introducing into it elements of the > art > >>> and beliefs of the Satnami community. Satnami singers and dancers have > >>> performed in this play, and it has been seen by members of the > community > >>> several times. In Chhattisgarh and Madhya Pradesh, there are several > >>> rural > >>> troupes who are today performing some version of this play. > >>> > >>> The play itself is the story of a thief who, under the influence of a > >>> guru, > >>> pledges never to tell a lie. He sticks to his pledge, even at the cost > of > >>> his life. This superb tragic-comedy, in a thoroughly entertaining and > >>> artistic manner, brings into focus the moral and ethical degeneration > of > >>> our > >>> society, in which, paradoxically, it is a thief who ends up being more > >>> honest than those who supposed to be the custodians of our morality. > >>> > >>> Charandas Chor remains Habib Tanvir’s best-known play, and has been > >>> performed literally hundreds of times by his world-renowned Naya > Theatre > >>> troupe all over India and in several countries across the world. It was > >>> made > >>> into a film by Shyam Benegal, with Smita Patil in the lead, in 1975, > and > >>> was > >>> the first Indian play to win the prestigious Fringe First award at the > >>> Edinburgh Theatre Festival in 1982. It then did a successful run on the > >>> London stage. > >>> > >>> We demand that the Chhattisgarh government immediately revoke this > absurd > >>> ban. > >>> > >>> Arvind Gaur > >>> Brijesh > >>> Govind Deshpande > >>> Javed Malick > >>> Madangopal Singh > >>> M.K. Raina > >>> Moloyashree Hashmi > >>> N.K. Sharma > >>> Shahid Anwar > >>> Sudhanva Deshpande > >>> Vivan Sundaram > >>> Wamiq Abbasi > >>> Act One Theatre Group > >>> Asmita Theatre Group > >>> Bahroop Art Group > >>> Jana Natya Manch > >>> Jan Sanskriti > >>> Janvadi Lekhak Sangh > >>> Sahmat > >>> _________________________________________ > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> subscribe in the subject header. > >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >>> > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 12:29:04 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:29:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India tells UNICEF to stop nutrition relief aid In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908042329r3c340f1ex72469cb192e8ab84@mail.gmail.com> References: <695090.98608.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <7271ec560908042329r3c340f1ex72469cb192e8ab84@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Rajen jee I am not an expert in that field. I thought you may have read that on the net. Anyways, I will try to search it and put it on this forum when I can. Thanks for the information. And what we need in today's media is constant groping of our govt on this issue. It's only on constant attacks that our system responds, and while the concept of reform is good, it's too long term to leave things as status-quo. I seriously believe journalists and others on this forum should try to get articles on food and such items published on front pages, and let TV media also look at this issue for a change. That's all which is required to get things moving to a certain extent. After all, if we don't try to solve our problems, who will come on our behalf? Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 12:46:28 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:46:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908042332k6d30533au765d2ceea38ff60d@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560908040209iade2453m5148550f1269c223@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908042106u2758d3acy46a72e53a547e5a0@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908042321y3a41da88ma21df3a82f068b84@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908042332k6d30533au765d2ceea38ff60d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Rajen jee First of all, it's you who keep on constantly arguing about discrimination being made against Hindus in the name of minority appeasement and religious basis. And in this mission, you are not alone but served by the likes of Murali ji and others as well. My simple argument to you on that would be that are there facts and figures which prove your statement at all. If yes, please do present them here. Manmohan Singh and Congress and other 'secularist' parties can say many things, but the ground realities are totally different, going by the data collected through the Census and other surveys. Secondly, I have stated again and will again state that issues should not be mixed. And what's more, we need to talk about issues which actually concern the people of this country, most of whom are poor, economically destitute, deprived of food, health, proper sanitation and education. On top of that, they are socially and sometimes racially discriminated. And then, they are politically powerless. So we need to look about them. Instead I see you and others (and here I blame myself as well) for discussing issues which simply are of no value at all. We instead talk about minority and majority politics all the time. And now I am supposed to have been charming all with grace and arguments to be in politics. For your kind information, if politics would have been my forte, Sarai would have been the last resort for me. The first would have been ground work and trying to do something for people, with the objective of gaining votes. I am not one of the Arun Jaitleys, the Arun Shouries, the Manmohan Singhs, the Pranab Mukherjees (at least till pre-2004) who try to gain backdoor entry through the Rajya Sabha without even trying to face the people, without even understanding issues or electoral politics properly. When I look at such kind of arguments, I seriously feel that people should try to behave as per their age. I can understand ignorance of issues, and misunderstandings are also common, but such kind of statements do make me feel as if I am making a child understand, and yet the child refuses to listen to me. Pardon my language on this count, but I really don't know how to say it in a better way. By the way, unlike your idea, I have not perceived you as the 'other' who is 'religious'. If that were the case, like Anupam jee, I would have simply refused to reply to your argument. I am in the hope that people like you would realize the importance and priorities of what is to be done for the people at large, and come over to support it. This 'other' is within us, not outside us. Lastly about proselytization. The reason Gandhi is against proselytization is because people are simply changing their faith, without even reasoning out as to why they should do so. And because some agencies are utilizing it for an irrational purpose, Gandhi's grouse against them is perfectly acceptable. However, if people are that much ready to change their faith without reasoning out at all, some fault does lie with those changing their faith. Moreover, there's a difference between conversion and proselytization too. Gandhi wasn't against conversion (which meant changing your faith by reasoning out) but against proselytization. What's more, if you feel it's wrong, simply discard those who proselytize as 'bad Hindus' and take them as 'bad people'. What's wrong about that? Instead, today's arguments about proselytization seem to bring to mind the insecurity that if all poor and destitutes were to become Christians, then upper caste Hindus would have no one to boss around, and would also become politically powerless (as these Christians may be asked to vote for secular parties, on the plank of communalism and protection of their rights). Why then should not we talk about reconversions (also a kind of proselytization), that too of tribals, who have never understood what it means to be a Hindu? Infact, how many on this forum, who consider themselves to be Hindus, actually know what it means to be a Hindu? I would be glad to know that as well. By the way, even Christ was against conversion, and would have been apalled at such proselytization by Christian missionaries. But then there should be a proof of this happening. Inspite of the Freedom of Religion Act passed in Gujarat, in 10 years, only 3 cases were registered of conversions under 'allurement or force'. And if this is still taking place, then it's wrong and let's protest it. What's wrong with that? But not from the religious angle. From the reasoning angle. Regards Rakesh From c.anupam at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 13:28:37 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:28:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] condemning ban on Charandas Chor In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908042342x2f070d32s2941762e9eeb38c2@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00908031237o2acdda83i72669b3e06ed43f0@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908032301t2f53b477o8dabf0cd01d63395@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908040625x2a321369m81f9ee44bc3a3277@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908042342x2f070d32s2941762e9eeb38c2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00908050058n42fad067r152220353e1ee588@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rajen, I will list these injuctions as a special order from Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi and use it to my 21st century list of commandments. I am typically interested in this "mind of a woman" bit about your injunction. where does it come from sir? And offcourse I acknowledge the fact Valmiki had undergone immense transformation to have conjured such words which lead to Ramayana. However, I think you missed the point. If a dacoit transforms and scripts an epic, why does a particular community have a problem with Guru Ghasidas's depiction? Isnt it an engineered protest? When in several versions of Ramayana and Mahabharata dalits and tribals are represented as Rakshashas, Mlechas, later "rescued" by their savoirs, Rama or Krishna, there are no objections raised. There is also no objection for Lankans being depicted as demons in Ramayana. Because in a plot certain characters are shown in a light which needs to be understood and contextualised. Dear Rajen, what do you have to say about Chhatisgarh government conjuring fictitious names farmers to procure paddy? http://www.indianexpress.com/news/How-Chhattisgarh-fudged-records-for-multi-crore-paddy-scam/488464/ The names they have made up are also from one particular community. Anupam On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi< rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear Anupam jee, > > Origin of a river, past of an ascetic, mind of a woman are difficult to > understand, so do not try say the wise. > > > When ramayana was written, the writer was a changed persona, will you > atleast acknowledge that.......! > > Regards, > Rajen. > On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:55 PM, anupam chakravartty > wrote: >> >> dear vidya, >> >> Very kind of you to use such words. It shows your knowledge. Rishi Valmiki >> was a dacoit called Ratnakar or Valia Koli. This is from a children's site >> ( >> http://www.bolokids.com/2008/0542.htm) (I am quoting from a children's >> website because i think you are not matured enough to converse in this >> forum) >> >> *Dear children, >> >> I am sure you enjoy reading the biographies of the great visionaries of >> the >> world. The bed-time stories which your parents or grand parents tell you, >> must have some or other reference to the Ramayana, the great epic of >> India. >> Do you know the name of the author of this great piece of writing? In this >> update I shall tell you about that legendary, eminent personality of our >> country, Valmiki. * >> >> Valmiki, universally accepted and applauded as adikavi, the first among >> the >> poets – in India and particularly in Sanskrit – was the foremost to >> ascertain a metrical expression of epic dimension. He had the apparition >> to >> match the emotional ecstasy of an elevated soul endowed with compassion >> and >> concern for all living beings. It was in such a state of identification of >> the human being with the universal that his immortal epic, the Ramayana, >> originated from his heart. >> >> Valmiki born as 'Ratnakar' is a legendary Hindu sage . He was the tenth >> child of Pracheta. There is a religion based on Valmiki's teachings and it >> is called Balmikism. The Ramayana consists of 24,001 verses in seven >> cantos >> (kandas) and tells the story of Rama and Sita. Valmiki Ramayana is dated >> variously from 500 BC to 100 BC. >> >> Maharishi Valmiki is accepted by many Indian communities as the author of >> the Yoga Vasistha, this particular piece of work was taught to Rama when >> he >> was disillusioned with the world in large. The Yoga Vasistha is an >> incredible piece of text which discusses a wide array of philosphical >> issues. Moreover, it appears to have been written over 5000 years ago. At >> his hermitage he taught both males and females. He gave Sita shelter after >> her banishment from Ayodhya. >> >> The great Valmiki, originally named Ratnakar, was from a Kirata Bhil >> community. Valmiki Muni was from a backward caste community and his name >> before he became the Adi-Kavi (prime poet) who recorded the Ramayana, was >> Vailya. He was trained by the Narada Muni, who is thought to be a devotee >> of >> Vishnu or *Narayana. In another legend that goes, Valmiki, originally >> Valia >> Koli, was a dacoit and a robber who would rob people passing through woods >> and dense forests. He would not only rob out of their possessions but also >> cut their ears and wear them in the form of a chain. One fine day, Narada >> Muni was passing through this forest and Valia Koli happened to confront >> him. Narada Muni asked Valia if he knows what he is doing. Valia replied >> saying that it is this which runs his family and the family is aware about >> it.* Then Narada Muni asked Valia if his family members would share a part >> of a burden of his sins? Valia was so moved with this, he ran back to his >> home and asked every member of his family if they will share if the >> situation demands. No member of the family, neither his wife nor his sons >> replied in assertive. His wife said that the sins Valia is doing everyday >> are part of his life and it is his duty to feed his family and it is only >> he >> who is responsible for the sins he has been committing. Hearing this, >> Valia >> changed himself completely, from a dacoit to a Sage. He returned to Narada >> Muni and requested him to help enlighten himself, after which he became >> Sage >> Valmiki by penance. >> >> Once Valmiki was taking a stroll on the bank of the river Tamasa along >> with >> his disciple Bharadwaja. The river-water attracted his concentration. The >> pleasing and composed movement of the waves seemed to remind the prophet >> of >> the mature and the reticent qualities of his hero. He visualized the >> purest >> spark and tranquil of a pious man’s mind reflected in the flowing stream. >> But the very next moment he saw a upsetting panorama of a female bird >> suddenly separated from her partner who was mercilessly shot by a >> malicious >> hunter. He could not bear the contrast he perceived between the crystal >> clear water reflecting a placid heart and the work of a heartless huntsman >> who shot at the pair of naïve, guiltless birds absorbed in the valid >> gratification of life for no fault of theirs and to no benefit for him >> moreover. These two incidents had an impression on his mind and his >> creative >> art, which led to his composition of the greatest epic on earth, the >> Ramayana. >> >> It is unfortunate that men of letters know very little about this fêted >> poet >> worldwide repute except about his epic composition, the Ramayana. The poet >> did not say much about himself in his work nor could history keep any >> documentation and authentic account of his life – not even of the time he >> lived in. The word Valmika literally means an ant-hill that stands for >> deep >> meditation in a poised state of penance. Valmiki, the poet, is a product >> of >> this penance. Kalidasa, a great admirer of Valmiki, glorifies this aspect >> in >> his famous line in Meghasandesa.The revelation and the influence of >> Valmiki >> are seen at their best while portraying the character of Sita as an ideal >> woman – a sculpt for reticence, a pictogram of sophisticated simplicity, >> an >> incarnation of elegance and dignity, an austere observer of moral code of >> behavior, an exceptional paradigm of ultimate love and a singular >> amalgamation of valor and kindness. There are three important characters >> in >> the Ramayana who made significant contribution to the advancement of the >> march of Rama from Ayodhya to Mithila, Kishkindha and Lanka. They are >> Vishwamitra, Lakshmana and Hanuman—and these characters were created by >> Valmiki with utmost care. >> >> The Ramayana, as envisaged by Valmiki, is a stride in search of man – a >> man >> whose humanity stands out spirituality by the asset of its translucent >> transitoriness. Rama, the central figure of this march of cult presents a >> rare amalgamation of individual decorum and celestial ignite. He kept the >> sparkle to himself and within himself and widen the bouquet of complete >> love, warmth, concern, restoration and healing to the planet around him. >> These are the vital human values and virtues more accomplished than >> sermonized by Rama, the man of Valmiki’s vision. These traits of the main >> character by their instinctive penchant dominated almost all the other >> characters in the Ramayana. Good and bad are only virtual terms for a >> great >> soul like Rama. They do not have any unconditional meaning for him from a >> comprehensive point of view. They can be changed, altered and converted if >> the human advance is maintained with valor, obligation and kindness. The >> effect of this policy and the values of life finds abundant design >> throughout the Ramayana. >> >> The creative distinction of Valmiki lies in his genuineness in experience >> and ease in expression. There is tenderness in his words, equilibrium in >> his >> emotions and innate glibness in his commentary. He speaks less and makes >> his >> characters articulate for themselves. He has an inherent approach into the >> soul and a spectacular expertise in restraining the movements and the >> historic actions of his characters. The secret of his success as an epic >> poet of predictive vision lies in his all-absorbing penance or tapasya and >> unassuming firmness. >> >> The intermediary and the communication are equally imperative for the epic >> poet and Valmiki has accomplished both. He never thought that his sincere >> concern for the pair of birds divided by a cruel shot would result in the >> magnum oeuvre campaigning the basic human qualities like adoration and >> compassion. It assumed the form of a world classic with a message for each >> era to come and for the entire living beings. Valmiki is revered as the >> first poet, and the Ramayana, the first kavya. >> >> ENDS >> >> It is a fact that there are several versions of Ramayana written in >> several >> languages. Infact, the Prime Minister in waiting L.K. Advani has written >> about Valmiki: http://lkadvani.in/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5792 >> My point here is not to cite Ramayana or the mythological stories around >> its >> creation. My problem lies with the fact, how a play is being banned >> selectively by the Chattisgarh government by making tribals as the >> scapegoat. Just like how many other opportunists operate in that area >> and cash in on that tribal sentiment. >> >> -with regards >> anupam >> >> On 8/4/09, Vidya wrote: >> > >> > He was just one of the writers of ramayana. and when he wrote it he was >> > not >> > a dacoit you ignonramus ass hole. That he was a dacoit is also not >> > proved by >> > any reliable sources. >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "anupam chakravartty" < >> > c.anupam at gmail.com> >> > To: "sarai list" >> > Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 2:01 AM >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] condemning ban on Charandas Chor >> > >> > >> > The Chattisgarh government perhaps doesnt realise that mythological >> > epic, >> >> Ramayana was written by a dacoit. >> >> >> >> On 8/4/09, prakash ray wrote: >> >> >> >>> >> >>> Press Release condemning ban on Charandas Chor: >> >>> We are shocked to learn from press reports that the BJP government of >> >>> Chhattisgarh has banned Charandas Chor, a classic of the modern Indian >> >>> theatre, written and produced by Habib Tanvir. The play was first done >> >>> in >> >>> the 1970s, and is originally based on an oral folk tale from >> >>> Rajasthan. >> >>> Habib Tanvir worked on this tale, introducing into it elements of the >> >>> art >> >>> and beliefs of the Satnami community. Satnami singers and dancers have >> >>> performed in this play, and it has been seen by members of the >> >>> community >> >>> several times. In Chhattisgarh and Madhya Pradesh, there are several >> >>> rural >> >>> troupes who are today performing some version of this play. >> >>> >> >>> The play itself is the story of a thief who, under the influence of a >> >>> guru, >> >>> pledges never to tell a lie. He sticks to his pledge, even at the cost >> >>> of >> >>> his life. This superb tragic-comedy, in a thoroughly entertaining and >> >>> artistic manner, brings into focus the moral and ethical degeneration >> >>> of >> >>> our >> >>> society, in which, paradoxically, it is a thief who ends up being more >> >>> honest than those who supposed to be the custodians of our morality. >> >>> >> >>> Charandas Chor remains Habib Tanvir’s best-known play, and has been >> >>> performed literally hundreds of times by his world-renowned Naya >> >>> Theatre >> >>> troupe all over India and in several countries across the world. It >> >>> was >> >>> made >> >>> into a film by Shyam Benegal, with Smita Patil in the lead, in 1975, >> >>> and >> >>> was >> >>> the first Indian play to win the prestigious Fringe First award at the >> >>> Edinburgh Theatre Festival in 1982. It then did a successful run on >> >>> the >> >>> London stage. >> >>> >> >>> We demand that the Chhattisgarh government immediately revoke this >> >>> absurd >> >>> ban. >> >>> >> >>> Arvind Gaur >> >>> Brijesh >> >>> Govind Deshpande >> >>> Javed Malick >> >>> Madangopal Singh >> >>> M.K. Raina >> >>> Moloyashree Hashmi >> >>> N.K. Sharma >> >>> Shahid Anwar >> >>> Sudhanva Deshpande >> >>> Vivan Sundaram >> >>> Wamiq Abbasi >> >>> Act One Theatre Group >> >>> Asmita Theatre Group >> >>> Bahroop Art Group >> >>> Jana Natya Manch >> >>> Jan Sanskriti >> >>> Janvadi Lekhak Sangh >> >>> Sahmat >> >>> _________________________________________ >> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >>> Critiques & Collaborations >> >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >>> subscribe in the subject header. >> >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >>> >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > >> > >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > -- > Rajen. > > From murali.chalam at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 14:26:40 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:26:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908040209iade2453m5148550f1269c223@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908042106u2758d3acy46a72e53a547e5a0@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908042321y3a41da88ma21df3a82f068b84@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908042332k6d30533au765d2ceea38ff60d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908050156q183e9492k864b2d0cb7cc6af8@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh JI, Here are some facts which you might want to know. 1. Haj pilgrimage subsidised to several 1000's of rupees while Amarnath Yatra taxed. 2. When a Newspaper in Denmark published an offensive cartoon caricaturing the Prophet, the non-descript Prime Minister of India Dr. Manmohan Singh called up the Denmark Prime Minister to object to the publication of the cartoon. The same Prime Minister maintained an attitude of cold and calculated pseudo-secular silence when a hundred year old Malaimel Sri Selva Kaliamman Temple in Kuala Lumpur was demolished very recently. Our Prime Minister did not even issue a statement, much less call up the Malaysian Prime Minister. Against this known anti-Hindu stand of the Government of India, even within the country, no respectable or responsible Indian citizen can ever expect our Prime Minister to speak boldly to President Musharaff, lodging his protest against the demolition of the Krishna Temple in Lahore. The list could be endless. 3. Hindu temples brought under govt. control whereas Auditing the overseas cash inflows and outflows of Churches, no way can that be questioned. 4. During the regime of S M Krishna, Sangliana, a Christian Officer from North-East openly sided with missionaries when the Ma Bhagavati temple in Devanahalli (Bangalore Rural) and Sri Durgamba Temple in Banaswadi (Bangalore) were demolished and churches erected in their place in 2002. 5. Gandhi and Nehru objected to the decision of the cabinet and insisted that Somnath Temple should be reconstructed out of public funds, not government funds, while in January 1948 they pressurised Sardar Patel to carry on renovation of the mosques of Delhi at government expense. 6. In 2002, Karnataka State received Rs.72 crores as revenue from temples, returned Rs.10 crores for temple maintenance, and granted Rs.50 crores for madrasas and Rs.10 crores for churches. (Daily Pioneer, October 7, 2003.) 7. 8. BJP-ruled Rajasthan has to change the name of a colony named after the Goddess Sati, but Maharashtra sanctions a Christian township! 8. A minister in the state government, Mohammed Yaqoob Qureshi, offered a reward of $US11.5 million ($15.6 million) for the beheading of any of the cartoonists. No case was filed against him for instigating communal violence. BJP’s reward for killing militants: Case registered against Katiyar. The Jammu Police have registered a case against Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) general secretary Vinay Katiyar for attempting to incite communal violence by announcing reward money for those civilians who killed militants. What hipocrcy and pseudo-secularism. stating what Congress and Pseudo-secular Congress are doing on the following 1. UPA announcing quota for Muslims, on the basis of religion, is not communal. 2. Manmohan Singh, giving a clarion call that Muslims must have first access to national resources, is not communal. 3. Postponing Afzal's hanging, for the sake of UP elections, is not communal. 4. Releasing the communally doctored Justice Sachar Report is not communal. 5. Lalu, releasing Banerjee Commission Report on Godhra carnage (when Nanavati commission was enquiring into the incident) on the eve of Bihar Elections is not communal. 6. Rahul, telling that Babri Masjid would have been safe under Gandhi dynasty, is not communal. 7. Mulayam Singh's attempt to close the criminal cases against SIMI terrorists is 'not communal'. 8. surreptitiously slipped in Articles 29 and 30 of the Constitution in order to convert the Hindus in Majority in India into serfs of the 'Minority' in perpetuity is 'not communal'. 9. We do not have Haj subsidies in any other Islamic or non-Islamic country in the world is 'not communal'. 10. Union Finance Minister, recently announce a new 'Communal' programme of 'COMMUNAL LOANS' by asking the Banks to refashion and restructure their lending policy by earmarking 15 per cent of the priority sector loans exclusively for the minorities? is 'not communal'. 11. Soon after the Mumbai train blasts, Sonia Gandhi visited Mumbai and declared that 'the feelings of the minority Muslims should not be hurt,' in spite of being fully aware of the fact that these acts of terror were perpetrated by the Muslims with the full backing of ISI in Pakistan is not communal. Can list more and the list could be endless. On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 12:46 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Rajen jee > > First of all, it's you who keep on constantly arguing about discrimination > being made against Hindus in the name of minority appeasement and religious > basis. And in this mission, you are not alone but served by the likes of > Murali ji and others as well. > > My simple argument to you on that would be that are there facts and figures > which prove your statement at all. If yes, please do present them here. > Manmohan Singh and Congress and other 'secularist' parties can say many > things, but the ground realities are totally different, going by the data > collected through the Census and other surveys. > > Secondly, I have stated again and will again state that issues should not > be mixed. And what's more, we need to talk about issues which actually > concern the people of this country, most of whom are poor, economically > destitute, deprived of food, health, proper sanitation and education. On top > of that, they are socially and sometimes racially discriminated. And then, > they are politically powerless. So we need to look about them. > > Instead I see you and others (and here I blame myself as well) for > discussing issues which simply are of no value at all. We instead talk about > minority and majority politics all the time. And now I am supposed to have > been charming all with grace and arguments to be in politics. For your kind > information, if politics would have been my forte, Sarai would have been the > last resort for me. The first would have been ground work and trying to do > something for people, with the objective of gaining votes. I am not one of > the Arun Jaitleys, the Arun Shouries, the Manmohan Singhs, the Pranab > Mukherjees (at least till pre-2004) who try to gain backdoor entry through > the Rajya Sabha without even trying to face the people, without even > understanding issues or electoral politics properly. > > > When I look at such kind of arguments, I seriously feel that people should > try to behave as per their age. I can understand ignorance of issues, and > misunderstandings are also common, but such kind of statements do make me > feel as if I am making a child understand, and yet the child refuses to > listen to me. Pardon my language on this count, but I really don't know how > to say it in a better way. > > By the way, unlike your idea, I have not perceived you as the 'other' who > is 'religious'. If that were the case, like Anupam jee, I would have simply > refused to reply to your argument. I am in the hope that people like you > would realize the importance and priorities of what is to be done for the > people at large, and come over to support it. This 'other' is within us, not > outside us. > > Lastly about proselytization. The reason Gandhi is against proselytization > is because people are simply changing their faith, without even reasoning > out as to why they should do so. And because some agencies are utilizing it > for an irrational purpose, Gandhi's grouse against them is perfectly > acceptable. However, if people are that much ready to change their faith > without reasoning out at all, some fault does lie with those changing their > faith. Moreover, there's a difference between conversion and proselytization > too. Gandhi wasn't against conversion (which meant changing your faith by > reasoning out) but against proselytization. > > What's more, if you feel it's wrong, simply discard those who proselytize > as 'bad Hindus' and take them as 'bad people'. What's wrong about that? > Instead, today's arguments about proselytization seem to bring to mind the > insecurity that if all poor and destitutes were to become Christians, then > upper caste Hindus would have no one to boss around, and would also become > politically powerless (as these Christians may be asked to vote for secular > parties, on the plank of communalism and protection of their rights). Why > then should not we talk about reconversions (also a kind of > proselytization), that too of tribals, who have never understood what it > means to be a Hindu? > > Infact, how many on this forum, who consider themselves to be Hindus, > actually know what it means to be a Hindu? I would be glad to know that as > well. > > By the way, even Christ was against conversion, and would have been apalled > at such proselytization by Christian missionaries. But then there should be > a proof of this happening. Inspite of the Freedom of Religion Act passed in > Gujarat, in 10 years, only 3 cases were registered of conversions under > 'allurement or force'. And if this is still taking place, then it's wrong > and let's protest it. What's wrong with that? > > But not from the religious angle. From the reasoning angle. > > Regards > > Rakesh > From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 5 14:29:20 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 01:59:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <496034.7143.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Assad   If it lies within your range of interests, would you please post into this List information/commentaries on the recent Pakistan Supreme Court decision and percieved consequentials (Legislative and Judicial) that might impact Musharraf's takeover / PCOs / 17th Amendment / position of 'PCO Judges' / NRO and reliefs enjoyed under the NRO.    Thanks   Kshmendra From murali.chalam at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 14:37:12 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:37:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] condemning ban on Charandas Chor In-Reply-To: <341380d00908050058n42fad067r152220353e1ee588@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00908031237o2acdda83i72669b3e06ed43f0@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908032301t2f53b477o8dabf0cd01d63395@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908040625x2a321369m81f9ee44bc3a3277@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908042342x2f070d32s2941762e9eeb38c2@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908050058n42fad067r152220353e1ee588@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908050207u5e740a2bs7e0024708b85d639@mail.gmail.com> The Ramayana and Mahabaratha have to be understood in the right perspective. Here is one such interpretation of mine which I would like to share. Mind – The symbolism in GITA *Bhagavad Gita* is the epic discourse given by Krishna to Arjuna in the battle field of Kurukshetra. This base could be very easily *symbolized*into the *mind and the forces involved*. The battle field of *Kurukshetra* could be associated to the *mind or the intellect*. The *two warring forces*, the * Kauravas* and the *Pandavas* needs no superior logic to conclude that the *Kauravas represented the evil forces* while the *Pandavas represented the good*, which in turn could be *associated to the bad and good thoughts or the negative and positive emotions*. The battle of Kurukshetra could be conceptualized to the constant war that takes place within the mind between the evil and good thoughts. *Krishna who stands between the two armies is the conscience*. The concept on which the Bhagavad Gita has come to stay is the fact that *Arjuna starts questioning all the actions* that were going to take place on the battlefield and the resultant reactions, to which Krishna gives his response. So this is the basis on which, comes the conclusion, that *one needs to question oneself within, of all the actions both good and bad and expect answers from ones conscience*. The individual takes the role of Arjuna, Krishna acts as ones conscience, the mind is the battlefield of Kurukshetra and the actual war is the internal fight taking place within the mind between the negative and positive thoughts. The result of the Kurukshetra war, in that the good won over the evil forces could be ascribed to the fact that Arjuna listened to Krishna and acted accordingly. *Act in accordance with the guidance of ones conscience (Krishna) and one is bound to succeed*. On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 1:28 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Rajen, > > I will list these injuctions as a special order from Rajendra Bhat > Uppinangadi and use it to my 21st century list of commandments. I am > typically interested in this "mind of a woman" bit about your injunction. > where does it come from sir? > > And offcourse I acknowledge the fact Valmiki had undergone immense > transformation to have conjured such words which lead to Ramayana. However, > I think you missed the point. If a dacoit transforms and scripts an epic, > why does a particular community have a problem with Guru Ghasidas's > depiction? Isnt it an engineered protest? When in several versions of > Ramayana and Mahabharata dalits and tribals are represented as Rakshashas, > Mlechas, later "rescued" by their savoirs, Rama or Krishna, there are no > objections raised. There is also no objection for Lankans being depicted as > demons in Ramayana. Because in a plot certain characters are shown in a > light which needs to be understood and contextualised. > > Dear Rajen, what do you have to say about Chhatisgarh government conjuring > fictitious names farmers to procure paddy? > > http://www.indianexpress.com/news/How-Chhattisgarh-fudged-records-for-multi-crore-paddy-scam/488464/ > > The names they have made up are also from one particular community. > > Anupam > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi< > rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > > Dear Anupam jee, > > > > Origin of a river, past of an ascetic, mind of a woman are difficult to > > understand, so do not try say the wise. > > > > > > When ramayana was written, the writer was a changed persona, will you > > atleast acknowledge that.......! > > > > Regards, > > Rajen. > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:55 PM, anupam chakravartty > > wrote: > >> > >> dear vidya, > >> > >> Very kind of you to use such words. It shows your knowledge. Rishi > Valmiki > >> was a dacoit called Ratnakar or Valia Koli. This is from a children's > site > >> ( > >> http://www.bolokids.com/2008/0542.htm) (I am quoting from a children's > >> website because i think you are not matured enough to converse in this > >> forum) > >> > >> *Dear children, > >> > >> I am sure you enjoy reading the biographies of the great visionaries of > >> the > >> world. The bed-time stories which your parents or grand parents tell > you, > >> must have some or other reference to the Ramayana, the great epic of > >> India. > >> Do you know the name of the author of this great piece of writing? In > this > >> update I shall tell you about that legendary, eminent personality of our > >> country, Valmiki. * > >> > >> Valmiki, universally accepted and applauded as adikavi, the first among > >> the > >> poets – in India and particularly in Sanskrit – was the foremost to > >> ascertain a metrical expression of epic dimension. He had the apparition > >> to > >> match the emotional ecstasy of an elevated soul endowed with compassion > >> and > >> concern for all living beings. It was in such a state of identification > of > >> the human being with the universal that his immortal epic, the Ramayana, > >> originated from his heart. > >> > >> Valmiki born as 'Ratnakar' is a legendary Hindu sage . He was the tenth > >> child of Pracheta. There is a religion based on Valmiki's teachings and > it > >> is called Balmikism. The Ramayana consists of 24,001 verses in seven > >> cantos > >> (kandas) and tells the story of Rama and Sita. Valmiki Ramayana is dated > >> variously from 500 BC to 100 BC. > >> > >> Maharishi Valmiki is accepted by many Indian communities as the author > of > >> the Yoga Vasistha, this particular piece of work was taught to Rama when > >> he > >> was disillusioned with the world in large. The Yoga Vasistha is an > >> incredible piece of text which discusses a wide array of philosphical > >> issues. Moreover, it appears to have been written over 5000 years ago. > At > >> his hermitage he taught both males and females. He gave Sita shelter > after > >> her banishment from Ayodhya. > >> > >> The great Valmiki, originally named Ratnakar, was from a Kirata Bhil > >> community. Valmiki Muni was from a backward caste community and his name > >> before he became the Adi-Kavi (prime poet) who recorded the Ramayana, > was > >> Vailya. He was trained by the Narada Muni, who is thought to be a > devotee > >> of > >> Vishnu or *Narayana. In another legend that goes, Valmiki, originally > >> Valia > >> Koli, was a dacoit and a robber who would rob people passing through > woods > >> and dense forests. He would not only rob out of their possessions but > also > >> cut their ears and wear them in the form of a chain. One fine day, > Narada > >> Muni was passing through this forest and Valia Koli happened to confront > >> him. Narada Muni asked Valia if he knows what he is doing. Valia replied > >> saying that it is this which runs his family and the family is aware > about > >> it.* Then Narada Muni asked Valia if his family members would share a > part > >> of a burden of his sins? Valia was so moved with this, he ran back to > his > >> home and asked every member of his family if they will share if the > >> situation demands. No member of the family, neither his wife nor his > sons > >> replied in assertive. His wife said that the sins Valia is doing > everyday > >> are part of his life and it is his duty to feed his family and it is > only > >> he > >> who is responsible for the sins he has been committing. Hearing this, > >> Valia > >> changed himself completely, from a dacoit to a Sage. He returned to > Narada > >> Muni and requested him to help enlighten himself, after which he became > >> Sage > >> Valmiki by penance. > >> > >> Once Valmiki was taking a stroll on the bank of the river Tamasa along > >> with > >> his disciple Bharadwaja. The river-water attracted his concentration. > The > >> pleasing and composed movement of the waves seemed to remind the prophet > >> of > >> the mature and the reticent qualities of his hero. He visualized the > >> purest > >> spark and tranquil of a pious man’s mind reflected in the flowing > stream. > >> But the very next moment he saw a upsetting panorama of a female bird > >> suddenly separated from her partner who was mercilessly shot by a > >> malicious > >> hunter. He could not bear the contrast he perceived between the crystal > >> clear water reflecting a placid heart and the work of a heartless > huntsman > >> who shot at the pair of naïve, guiltless birds absorbed in the valid > >> gratification of life for no fault of theirs and to no benefit for him > >> moreover. These two incidents had an impression on his mind and his > >> creative > >> art, which led to his composition of the greatest epic on earth, the > >> Ramayana. > >> > >> It is unfortunate that men of letters know very little about this fêted > >> poet > >> worldwide repute except about his epic composition, the Ramayana. The > poet > >> did not say much about himself in his work nor could history keep any > >> documentation and authentic account of his life – not even of the time > he > >> lived in. The word Valmika literally means an ant-hill that stands for > >> deep > >> meditation in a poised state of penance. Valmiki, the poet, is a product > >> of > >> this penance. Kalidasa, a great admirer of Valmiki, glorifies this > aspect > >> in > >> his famous line in Meghasandesa.The revelation and the influence of > >> Valmiki > >> are seen at their best while portraying the character of Sita as an > ideal > >> woman – a sculpt for reticence, a pictogram of sophisticated simplicity, > >> an > >> incarnation of elegance and dignity, an austere observer of moral code > of > >> behavior, an exceptional paradigm of ultimate love and a singular > >> amalgamation of valor and kindness. There are three important characters > >> in > >> the Ramayana who made significant contribution to the advancement of the > >> march of Rama from Ayodhya to Mithila, Kishkindha and Lanka. They are > >> Vishwamitra, Lakshmana and Hanuman—and these characters were created by > >> Valmiki with utmost care. > >> > >> The Ramayana, as envisaged by Valmiki, is a stride in search of man – a > >> man > >> whose humanity stands out spirituality by the asset of its translucent > >> transitoriness. Rama, the central figure of this march of cult presents > a > >> rare amalgamation of individual decorum and celestial ignite. He kept > the > >> sparkle to himself and within himself and widen the bouquet of complete > >> love, warmth, concern, restoration and healing to the planet around him. > >> These are the vital human values and virtues more accomplished than > >> sermonized by Rama, the man of Valmiki’s vision. These traits of the > main > >> character by their instinctive penchant dominated almost all the other > >> characters in the Ramayana. Good and bad are only virtual terms for a > >> great > >> soul like Rama. They do not have any unconditional meaning for him from > a > >> comprehensive point of view. They can be changed, altered and converted > if > >> the human advance is maintained with valor, obligation and kindness. The > >> effect of this policy and the values of life finds abundant design > >> throughout the Ramayana. > >> > >> The creative distinction of Valmiki lies in his genuineness in > experience > >> and ease in expression. There is tenderness in his words, equilibrium in > >> his > >> emotions and innate glibness in his commentary. He speaks less and makes > >> his > >> characters articulate for themselves. He has an inherent approach into > the > >> soul and a spectacular expertise in restraining the movements and the > >> historic actions of his characters. The secret of his success as an epic > >> poet of predictive vision lies in his all-absorbing penance or tapasya > and > >> unassuming firmness. > >> > >> The intermediary and the communication are equally imperative for the > epic > >> poet and Valmiki has accomplished both. He never thought that his > sincere > >> concern for the pair of birds divided by a cruel shot would result in > the > >> magnum oeuvre campaigning the basic human qualities like adoration and > >> compassion. It assumed the form of a world classic with a message for > each > >> era to come and for the entire living beings. Valmiki is revered as the > >> first poet, and the Ramayana, the first kavya. > >> > >> ENDS > >> > >> It is a fact that there are several versions of Ramayana written in > >> several > >> languages. Infact, the Prime Minister in waiting L.K. Advani has written > >> about Valmiki: http://lkadvani.in/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5792 > >> My point here is not to cite Ramayana or the mythological stories around > >> its > >> creation. My problem lies with the fact, how a play is being banned > >> selectively by the Chattisgarh government by making tribals as the > >> scapegoat. Just like how many other opportunists operate in that area > >> and cash in on that tribal sentiment. > >> > >> -with regards > >> anupam > >> > >> On 8/4/09, Vidya wrote: > >> > > >> > He was just one of the writers of ramayana. and when he wrote it he > was > >> > not > >> > a dacoit you ignonramus ass hole. That he was a dacoit is also not > >> > proved by > >> > any reliable sources. > >> > > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "anupam chakravartty" < > >> > c.anupam at gmail.com> > >> > To: "sarai list" > >> > Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 2:01 AM > >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] condemning ban on Charandas Chor > >> > > >> > > >> > The Chattisgarh government perhaps doesnt realise that mythological > >> > epic, > >> >> Ramayana was written by a dacoit. > >> >> > >> >> On 8/4/09, prakash ray wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> > >> >>> Press Release condemning ban on Charandas Chor: > >> >>> We are shocked to learn from press reports that the BJP government > of > >> >>> Chhattisgarh has banned Charandas Chor, a classic of the modern > Indian > >> >>> theatre, written and produced by Habib Tanvir. The play was first > done > >> >>> in > >> >>> the 1970s, and is originally based on an oral folk tale from > >> >>> Rajasthan. > >> >>> Habib Tanvir worked on this tale, introducing into it elements of > the > >> >>> art > >> >>> and beliefs of the Satnami community. Satnami singers and dancers > have > >> >>> performed in this play, and it has been seen by members of the > >> >>> community > >> >>> several times. In Chhattisgarh and Madhya Pradesh, there are several > >> >>> rural > >> >>> troupes who are today performing some version of this play. > >> >>> > >> >>> The play itself is the story of a thief who, under the influence of > a > >> >>> guru, > >> >>> pledges never to tell a lie. He sticks to his pledge, even at the > cost > >> >>> of > >> >>> his life. This superb tragic-comedy, in a thoroughly entertaining > and > >> >>> artistic manner, brings into focus the moral and ethical > degeneration > >> >>> of > >> >>> our > >> >>> society, in which, paradoxically, it is a thief who ends up being > more > >> >>> honest than those who supposed to be the custodians of our morality. > >> >>> > >> >>> Charandas Chor remains Habib Tanvir’s best-known play, and has been > >> >>> performed literally hundreds of times by his world-renowned Naya > >> >>> Theatre > >> >>> troupe all over India and in several countries across the world. It > >> >>> was > >> >>> made > >> >>> into a film by Shyam Benegal, with Smita Patil in the lead, in 1975, > >> >>> and > >> >>> was > >> >>> the first Indian play to win the prestigious Fringe First award at > the > >> >>> Edinburgh Theatre Festival in 1982. It then did a successful run on > >> >>> the > >> >>> London stage. > >> >>> > >> >>> We demand that the Chhattisgarh government immediately revoke this > >> >>> absurd > >> >>> ban. > >> >>> > >> >>> Arvind Gaur > >> >>> Brijesh > >> >>> Govind Deshpande > >> >>> Javed Malick > >> >>> Madangopal Singh > >> >>> M.K. Raina > >> >>> Moloyashree Hashmi > >> >>> N.K. Sharma > >> >>> Shahid Anwar > >> >>> Sudhanva Deshpande > >> >>> Vivan Sundaram > >> >>> Wamiq Abbasi > >> >>> Act One Theatre Group > >> >>> Asmita Theatre Group > >> >>> Bahroop Art Group > >> >>> Jana Natya Manch > >> >>> Jan Sanskriti > >> >>> Janvadi Lekhak Sangh > >> >>> Sahmat > >> >>> _________________________________________ > >> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >>> Critiques & Collaborations > >> >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> >>> subscribe in the subject header. > >> >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >>> > >> >> _________________________________________ > >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > -- > > Rajen. > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From murali.chalam at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 14:48:48 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:48:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Human Mind and the Sea Message-ID: <4eab87870908050218n758cd887m234550495ab5910@mail.gmail.com> As I watched the sea on several occasions, I wondered how it revealed its emotions and was caught in a very intriguing comparison with the mind. The sea can be compared to the human mind. Just like the various states of mind, the sea also has its days when it is turbulent while there are times when it is extremely calm and tranquil. The times when the sea in its ugliest form revealed by high tides lashing the shores, nobody dare venture near it. People stay away. Compare this when the sea is calm and friendly; people gather near the shores enjoying the cool pleasant touch of the waves. The internal turbulence and turmoil or the calm serenity of the mind is visible for others to judge. Think and relate the similar states of the human mind with the reactions of the society. I am sure the people will react much the same way as they would with the sea. An individual in a turbulent state of mind would react in a very nasty manner, because of the fact that he/she is not able to control the emotions, results in people staying away from the individual. An individual who is calm and balanced, definitely is much more friendly, acceptable and approachable. There is warmth and pleasantries creating an atmosphere of togetherness. However there is a difference, which if understood, will benefit the individual and the society. The various states of the sea cannot be controlled, while the human mind is definitely controllable. This ability to control ones emotions differentiates the ordinary from exceptional. Let us all try to control our emotions, especially the turbulent ones and do not vent our feelings externally, which will only affect our relationship with others. Warmth and camaraderie will make the society a peaceful haven. From murali.chalam at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 14:51:27 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:51:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Life_=96_The_Hardware_=26_Software?= Message-ID: <4eab87870908050221w6f8f045fyac4f4f44beaeefdd@mail.gmail.com> *Life* can be equated to a combination of *Hardware and Software*. Your bodyis the hardware and your mind the software. Just as we have different forms of Hardware with varying capacities and capabilities starting from the main frame computers to PC’s, the human being are also in different forms shapes sizes and capabilities. The tall & short, Fat and lean, able bodied and the differently abled. Every one is capable of performing, provided they understand themselves. Software is designed to execute various tasks, taking into consideration the capabilities of the hardware and understanding the limitations. Similarly the mind has to program the execution of the tasks taking into consideration what is expected. If you have observed, well written software bring out the desired result, while a software written in a hurry and without proper thinking, leads to BUGS, which will lead to wrong results and may sometimes cause the execution of the program to crash, resulting in the result not delivered. Similarly our mind is capable of performing tasks, which could bring out good results beneficial to one and all. However, invariably, in this jet age most of us fail to understand this and program the mind to perform tasks, which are selfish and self centered. A god task is that which takes into account the entire community of human beings as a whole and performs for the good of one and all. Finally, the hardware, that is the computer, also has a life span due to wear and tear. The time comes when the Hard disk fails or some critical part of the computer fails to respond leading to system crashes. Life is also similar. The aging process in human beings, leads to wear and tear of human body parts, which will ultimately lead to critical parts like the heart (equated to Hard Disk), brain (Equated to memory in the computer) failing to respond, leading to death. That is life. Let us understand and program ourselves to benefit the society at large. From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Wed Aug 5 15:14:53 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 15:14:53 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Britain To Put CCTV Cameras Inside Private Homes In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908042337m452a96csf404ffbf3479a6a1@mail.gmail.com> References: <4439ee330908040433y6ba9270epb17d7472bad5b04e@mail.gmail.com> <645b9f210908041316l46d908b9mc50bfabbff366b1a@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908042337m452a96csf404ffbf3479a6a1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <766065.31267.qm@web94708.mail.in2.yahoo.com> This is a tale of lessons gone wrong.  Instead of rehabilitating children, one puts them under government is watching us (istead of god). This is bound to bring in an overall insensitivity and harshness in the child, besides teaching him or her they are from problem families. And who gives these officials the right to supervise, read, intrude into other's affairs and lives, when the'd like to keep things confidential themselves. May be the individual needs to die for such crooks to survive, and rule the nation. This needs to be learnt why such policies can be undesirable, from moral of society as a whole, who r we to say some body is immoral if we do the same? Else, who knows, we may have papers lauding it, and such things like cam stripping in India. ________________________________ From: Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi To: Tanya Singh Cc: reader-list at sarai.net Sent: Wednesday, 5 August, 2009 12:07:48 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Britain To Put CCTV Cameras Inside Private Homes Dear all,    Media can give spin to any story for it has enough blacksheep in its fold, pimps and prostitutes have also a news paper to teach morals and ethics of life and create thehelka, selectively, to selected political parties, but it takes much more than five crores to catch the MP of the oldest party.! Conviction of MP RK Anand, now accusation on Buta singh and Virbhadra singh are pointers which never came on the radar of these media men.!.But Bangaru accepting one lakh for "new year party" as per the pimps words is big thehelka.!     Hoodwinking the supreme court in release of freezed amounts from London bank by constitutional authorities, is no news for the thehelka.! Regards, Rajem n.On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 1:46 AM, Tanya Singh wrote: > I wouldn't take this seriously - the source is some spurious > 'journalism' in The Sunday Express. Variations on this story have been > floating around for a few years, with no real basis. Scare-mongering > tabloid trash, is all...  Tx > > > > 2009/8/4 Nishant : > > Britain To Put CCTV Cameras Inside Private Homes > > By Charlie Sorrel > > > > As an ex-Brit, I’m well aware of the authorities’ love of surveillance > > and snooping, but even I, a pessimistic cynic, am amazed by the > > governments latest plan: to install Orwell’s telescreens in 20,000 > > homes. > > > > £400 million ($668 million) will be spend on installing and monitoring > > CCTV cameras in the homes of private citizens. Why? To make sure the > > kids are doing their homework, going to bed early and eating their > > vegetables. The scheme has, astonishingly, already been running in > > 2,000 family homes. The government’s “children’s secretary” Ed Balls > > is behind the plan, which is aimed at problem, antisocial families. > > The idea is that, if a child has a more stable home life, he or she > > will be less likely to stray into crime and drugs. > > > > It gets worse. The government is also maintaining a private army, > > incredibly not called “Thought Police”, which will “be sent round to > > carry out home checks,” according to the Sunday Express. And in a > > scheme which firmly cements the nation’s reputation as a “nanny > > state”, the kids and their families will be forced to sign “behavior > > contracts” which will “set out parents’ duties to ensure children > > behave and do their homework.” > > > > And remember, this is the left-wing government. The Shadow Home > > Secretary Chris Grayling, batting for the conservatives, thinks these > > plans are “too little, and too late,” implying that even more > > obtrusive work needs to be done. Rumors that a new detention center, > > named Room 101, is being constructed inside the Ministry of Love are > > unconfirmed. > > > > > http://www.wired..com/gadgetlab/2009/08/britain-to-put-cctv-cameras-inside-private-homes/ > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail..sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajen. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com From phadkeshilpa at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 15:19:40 2009 From: phadkeshilpa at gmail.com (Shilpa Phadke) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 15:19:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Posts in Women's Studies Programme, JNU - Very Urgent In-Reply-To: References: <9c8404940908042033n4e733a79n6498dd48b13e12e6@mail.gmail.com> <9c8404940908042139n2f672523m26af622fd8109992@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Arunima G Date: Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 10:09 AM Subject: Fwd: Posts in Women's Studies Programme,JNU - Very Urgent Dear Friends, This is an urgent mail to let you know that we have two posts in the WSP, JNU: 1) *Assistant Professor (OBC)*, Permanent post; minimum qualifications: Ph.D. desirable, at least two years of teaching/research 2) *Associate Professor (SC)*, plan post, renewable after 2012 for the next plan; minimum qualifications: Ph.d., with at least 5 years of teaching/research. Please do spread the word as widely as possible, and encourage scholars you may know to apply. One of the problems in the past has been that people missed seeing the ad when it was published, and hence many, particularly non Delhi based scholars, could not apply. With the revised pay scales, the move to Delhi may not be as dreadful as many would normally imagine it to be! Or at least that is one compensation.... Additionally - and this too is rather urgent - do let me know if there are suitable people you know of, so that one might encourage them to apply. I am given to understand that the ad will be on the JNU website between the 15th and 22nd of this month, and in the papers by the 22nd at least. So this is extremely urgent. Thanks! Arunima -- G. Arunima Associate Professor Women's Studies Programme School of Social Sciences Jawaharlal Nehru University New Delhi 110067 Tel: Office: 01126704178 (dir) 01126704166 (wsp) Residence: 01126963746 Email: arunima.gopinath at gmail.com anu1963 at yahoo.com -- G. Arunima Associate Professor Women's Studies Programme School of Social Sciences Jawaharlal Nehru University New Delhi 110067 Tel: Office: 01126704178 (dir) 01126704166 (wsp) Residence: 01126963746 Email: arunima.gopinath at gmail.com anu1963 at yahoo.com From c.anupam at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 15:37:50 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 15:37:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] condemning ban on Charandas Chor In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908050207u5e740a2bs7e0024708b85d639@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00908031237o2acdda83i72669b3e06ed43f0@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908032301t2f53b477o8dabf0cd01d63395@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908040625x2a321369m81f9ee44bc3a3277@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908042342x2f070d32s2941762e9eeb38c2@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908050058n42fad067r152220353e1ee588@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908050207u5e740a2bs7e0024708b85d639@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00908050307m77a4d473oc60fac3c651b685e@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for sharing this Murali. Here's something I read written by Soumen De: The Historical Context of *The Bhagavad Gita* and Its Relation to Indian Religious Doctrines Soumen De *The Bhagavad Gita* is perhaps the most famous, and definitely the most widely-read, ethical text of ancient India. As an episode in India's great epic, the Mahabharata, *The Bhagavad Gita* now ranks as one of the three principal texts that define and capture the essence of Hinduism; the other two being the Upanishads and the Brahma Sutras. Though this work contains much theology, its kernel is ethical and its teaching is set in the context of an ethical problem. The teaching of *The Bhagavad Gita* is summed up in the maxim "your business is with the deed and not with the result." When Arjuna, the third son of king Pandu (dynasty name: Pandavas) is about to begin a war that became inevitable once his one hundred cousins belonging to the Kaurava dynasty refused to return even a few villages to the five Pandava brothers after their return from enforced exile, he looks at his cousins, uncles and friends standing on the other side of the battlefield and wonders whether he is morally prepared and justified in killing his blood relations even though it was he, along with his brother Bhima, who had courageously prepared for this war. Arjuna is certain that he would be victorious in this war since he has Lord Krishna (one of the ten incarnations of Vishnu) on his side. He is able to visualize the scene at the end of the battle; the dead bodies of his cousins lying on the battlefield, motionless and incapable of vengeance. It is then that he looses his nerve to fight. The necessity for the arose because the one hundred cousins of the Panadavas refused to return the kingdom to the Pandavas as they had originally promised. The eldest of the Pandav brothers, Yudhisthir, had lost his entire kingdom fourteen years ago to the crafty Kaurava brothers in a game of dice, and was ordered by his cousins to go on a fourteen-year exile. The conflict between the Pandavas and the Kauravas brewed gradually when the Kauravas refused to return the kingdom to the Panadavas and honor the agreement after the fourteen-year exile, and escalated to a full scale war when the Kauravas refused to even grant Yudhisthir's reduced demand for a few villages instead of the entire kingdom. As the battle is about to begin, Arjuna, himself an acclaimed warrior, wonders how he could kill his own blood relatives with whom he had grown up as a child. He puts the battle on hold and begins a conversation with Krishna, one of the ten but most important incarnations of the Universal Hindu God, Vishnu. *The Bhagavad Gita* begins here and ends with Krishna convincing Arjuna that in the grand scheme of things, he is only a pawn. The best he could do is do his duty and not question God's will. It was his duty to fight. In convincing Arjuna, the Lord Krishna provides a philosophy of life and restores Arjuna's nerve to begin the battle -- a battle that had been stalled because the protagonist had lost his nerve and needed time to reexamine his moral values. Even though *The Bhagavad Gita* (hereafter referred to as the *Gita*) is one of the three principal texts that define the essence of Hinduism, and since all over the world Hindus chant from the *Gita* during most of their religious ceremonies, strictly speaking the *Gita* is not one of the Hindu scriptures. In light of its inseparable links to one of the two great Hindu epics (Mahabharata and Ramayana) which most Indians hold very dear to their hearts, and because Krishna, the most venerated and popular of the incarnations of Lord Vishnu, figures so prominently in it, the *Gita* over the years has not only become very popular but has ascended to spiritual heights that are afforded only to the Vedas (and the subsequent reinterpretive philosophies that followed them) and the Upanishads in the ancient Indian literature. The concept and symbol of God were extremely complicated issues (see below) in the ancient Hindu religious literature prior to the writing of the *Gita*. The notion of God and the paths to salvation are integral parts of all religions. The manner in which Hinduism originally dealt with these two fundamental issues was very complex and appeared to be too speculative at times. This was one of the reasons for which Buddhism branched out as a separate religion. When Buddhism was beginning to grow in popularity, Hinduism met with its first challenge: To provide a clear-cut, easy-to-worship symbol of God to its followers. For a variety of reasons, Lord Krishna was the obvious choice. Many have even suggested that it was one of the most pivotal choices ever made by ancient scholars to `humanize' the concept of God in the Hindu religion. Molded in the original image of Lord Vishnu, Krishna is an affable Avatar (reincarnation of God) which for the first time provided concrete guidelines for living to all mortals. The average Hindu might not know much about Brahma, but every one knows who Lord Krishna is. Mahatma Gandhi read the * Gita* often when he was in seclusion and in prison. But, the universal popularity of the *Gita* has not detracted Indian scholars from deviating from the fundamental truth about Hinduism. The *Gita * is not the Hindu scripture even though the literal translation of "Bhagavad Gita" is "The Song of God". The Nobel laureate Indian poet, Rabindra Nath Tagore, rarely quoted from the *Gita* in his philosophical writings; instead, he chose to refer to the Upanishads, to quote from it, and to use its teachings in his own works. Of course, the teachings of the Upanishads are included in the *Gita*; they are visible in multiple chapters of the *Gita*. The kinetic concepts of karma and yoga, which appeared for the first time in the Upanishads (explained below), appear repeatedly in the *Gita*, often in disguised forms. As with almost every religious Indian text, it is difficult to pinpoint when exactly the *Gita* was written. Without a doubt, it was written over a period of centuries by many writers. From the contents of the *Gita*, it is abundantly clear that both the principal teachings of the Upanishads and of early Buddhism were familiar to the writers of the *Gita*. So, it has been approximated that the *Gita* was written during the period 500 -200 BCE . Even though India is one of the few nations which has a continuous documented history, very few Indian religious texts exists for which the exact date of publication is established without controversy. *Despite its universal appeal, the Gita is replete with contradictions both at the fundamental level and at the highest level of philosophical discourse. To the discerning eye, it would seem that what has been said in the previous chapter, is contradicted in the very next chapter. This is the fundamental complaint against the Gita, and this fact would appear to be ironic given the fact that the Gita was originally written to reconcile the differences between two of the six major ancient Indian philosophies (Darshans) that evolved over the early years of Hinduism and became integral parts of ancient Indian religious literature. The irony disappears however when one understands what the Gita purported to achieve at the level of philosophical and religious discourse. This fact is crucial not only for the understanding of the principal themes of the Gita but also to locate the essence of the Gita in the overall picture of ancient Indian doctrines. The Gita attempted, for the first time, to reconcile the teachings of two very abstract Indian religious doctrines into one whole. The task was a formidable one.* The *Gita* tried to include the fundamentals of two ancient Indian philosophies into one document and reconcile the principal differences between them. At the outset, one must note that the two doctrines (Darshans) were often extremely difficult to understand. Hence the inevitable contradictions or duality of interpretation. The Six Darshans of ancient India were actually of differing origin and purpose, but all were brought into the scheme by being recognized as viable ways of salvation. They were divided into three groups of two complementary schools of thought (Darshans) or doctrines: Nyaya and Vaisesika; Sankhyya and Yoga; and Mimamsha and Vedanta. *The Bhagavad Gita* attempted to reconcile the Sankhyya philosophy with those of the Vedanta doctrine. One must note in passing that the Sankhyya school of thought led to Buddhism while the Vedanta philosophy is at the root of modern Hinduism. In this article, we are only going to discuss briefly the two Darshans -- the Sankhyya and the Vedanta -- the * Gita* attempted to reconcile. The Sankhyya is the oldest of the six Darshans while the Vedanta is the most important of the six systems. The various subsystems of the Vedanta doctrine has led to the emergence of modern intellectual Hinduism. The primary text of the Vedanta system is the Brahma Sutras, and its doctrines were derived in great part from the Upanishads, which marked the beginning of Hinduism as is understood and practiced today. Even though the Vedas are India's ancient sacred texts, modern Hinduism begins with the Vedanta (end of Vedas) and attains its zenith with the Brahma Sutras. The Sankhyya philosophy traces the origins of everything to the interplay of Prakriti (nature) and Purusha (the Self, to be differentiated from the concept of the soul in the latter Indian philosophies). These two separate entities have always existed and their interplay is at the root of all reality. The concept of God is conspicuous by its absence. There is no direct mention of God but only a passing reference as to how one should liberate himself to attain the realization of Is war (a heavenly entity). A very significant feature of Sankhyya is the doctrine of the three constituent qualities (gunas), causing virtue (sattva), passion (rajas), and dullness (tamas). On the other hand, the Vedanta school of thought deals with the concept of Brahman the ultimate reality that is beyond all logic and encompasses not only the concepts of being and non-being but also all the phases in between. It is one of the most difficult concepts in the entire Indian philosophy. At the highest level of truth, the entire universe of phenomena, including the gods themselves, was unreal -- the world was Maya, illusion, a dream, a mirage, a fragment of the imagination. The only reality is Brahman. One can see quite clearly the sources for the *Gita's* contradictions. It was dealing with not only two widely-differing Darshans but also with two of the most abstract philosophical systems. We know that the *Gita* was written long after the emergence of modern Hinduism. So it was able to draw on a wide variety of philosophical themes -- both ancient and relatively modern by comparison, and often opposing -- still present in modern Hinduism. Yet, to consolidate the two schools of thoughts proved to be an extremely difficult task -- a fact which the lyricism of the *Gita*, in the words of Lord Krishna himself, could not camaflouge. Any serious reader would arrive at the conclusion that even though the *Gita* mentions the Sankhyya, it more or less elaborates on ideas that originated with the Upanishads. The fundamental tenets of Hinduism took shape during the period 800 -500 BCE . They were set down in a series of treaties called the Upanishads. The Upanishads arise at the end of the Vedas, which earns it the name Veda-anta, which literally means "end (anta) of the Vedas." Almost all philosophy and religion in India rests upon the wealth of speculation contained in these works. The Upanishads center on the inner realms of the spirit. Encompassing the meaning of spiritual unity, the Upanishads point directly to the Divine Unity which pervades all of nature and is identical to the self. There are four "kinetic ideas" -- ideas that involve action or motion -- that represent the core of Indian spirituality. The ultimate objective is control of the passions and to realize a state of void -- a concept very similar to that of Buddhism. The four kinetic ideas are "karma, maya, nirvana, and yoga" and they appear in the *Gita*. But one must remember that they appeared for the first time in the Upanishads. A brief summary of the four ideas are provided below. Karma: The law of universal causality, which connects man with the cosmos and condemns him to transmigrate -- to move from one body to another after death -- indefinitely. In the *Gita*, Krishna makes an allusion to the eternal soul that moves from body to body as it ascends or descends the ladder of a given hierarchy, conditioned on the nature of one's own karma -- work of life or life deeds. Maya: refers to cosmic illusion; the mysterious process that gives rise to phenomena and maintains the cosmos. According to this idea, the world is not simply what is seems to the human senses -- a view with which the 20th century western scientists wholly agree. Absolute reality, situated somewhere beyond the cosmic illusion woven by maya and beyond human experience as conditioned by karma. Both Tagore, the renowned Indian poet and Albert Einstein, the famous scientist, agreed on this conclusion. Absolute reality, in their minds, was beyond human perception. Nirvana: The state of absolute blessedness, characterized by release from the cycle of reincarnations; freedom from the pain and care of the external world; bliss. Union with God or Atman. Hindus call such mystical union with ultimate reality as Samandhi or Moksha. Yoga: implies integration; bringing all the faculties of the psyche under the control of the self. Essentially, the object of various types of yoga is mind control, and the system lays down the effectual techniques of gaining liberation and achieving divine union. The word yoga is loosely applied to any program or technique which leads toward the union with God or Atman. There are five principal kinds of yoga: Hatha(physical), jnana (the way of knowledge), bhakti (the way of love), karma (the way of work), and rajah (mystical experience). The Western world's interest in *The Bhagavad Gita* began around the end of the eighteenth century when the first English translation of the *Gita* was published. All religious texts of ancient India were written in Sanskrit. In November 1784, the first direct translation of a Sanskrit work into English was completed by Charles Wilkins. The book that was translated was *The Bhagavad Gita*. Friedreich Max Mueller (1823-1900), the German Sanskritist who spent most of his working life as Professor of Comparative Philology at Oxford University, served as the chief editor of the Sacred Books of the East. (Oxford University Press). The *Gita* was included in this famous collection. Since then, the *Gita* has become one of the most widely-read texts of the world. True, there are unexplained contradictions and paradoxes in this brief book, but its wide-ranging implications based on the two ancient Darshans of India and its allegorical meanings are still being examined and reinterpreted. On 8/5/09, Murali V wrote: > > The Ramayana and Mahabaratha have to be understood in the right > perspective. Here is one such interpretation of mine which I would like to > share. > > Mind – The symbolism in GITA > > *Bhagavad Gita* is the epic discourse given by Krishna to Arjuna in the > battle field of Kurukshetra. This base could be very easily *symbolized*into the > *mind and the forces involved*. The battle field of *Kurukshetra* could be > associated to the *mind or the intellect*. The *two warring forces*, the * > Kauravas* and the *Pandavas* needs no superior logic to conclude that the > *Kauravas represented the evil forces* while the *Pandavas represented the > good*, which in turn could be *associated to the bad and good thoughts or > the negative and positive emotions*. The battle of Kurukshetra could be > conceptualized to the constant war that takes place within the mindbetween the evil and good > thoughts. *Krishna who stands between the two armies is the conscience*. > > The concept on which the Bhagavad Gita has come to stay is the fact that *Arjuna > starts questioning all the actions* that were going to take place on the > battlefield and the resultant reactions, to which Krishna gives his > response. So this is the basis on which, comes the conclusion, that *one > needs to question oneself within, of all the actions both good and bad and > expect answers from ones conscience*. The individual takes the role of > Arjuna, Krishna acts as ones conscience, the mind is the battlefield of > Kurukshetra and the actual war is the internal fight taking place within the > mind between the negative and positive thoughts. > > The result of the Kurukshetra war, in that the good won over the evil > forces could be ascribed to the fact that Arjuna listened to Krishna and > acted accordingly. > > *Act in accordance with the guidance of ones conscience (Krishna) and one > is bound to succeed*. > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 1:28 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > >> Dear Rajen, >> >> I will list these injuctions as a special order from Rajendra Bhat >> Uppinangadi and use it to my 21st century list of commandments. I am >> typically interested in this "mind of a woman" bit about your injunction. >> where does it come from sir? >> >> And offcourse I acknowledge the fact Valmiki had undergone immense >> transformation to have conjured such words which lead to Ramayana. >> However, >> I think you missed the point. If a dacoit transforms and scripts an epic, >> why does a particular community have a problem with Guru Ghasidas's >> depiction? Isnt it an engineered protest? When in several versions of >> Ramayana and Mahabharata dalits and tribals are represented as Rakshashas, >> Mlechas, later "rescued" by their savoirs, Rama or Krishna, there are no >> objections raised. There is also no objection for Lankans being depicted >> as >> demons in Ramayana. Because in a plot certain characters are shown in a >> light which needs to be understood and contextualised. >> >> Dear Rajen, what do you have to say about Chhatisgarh government conjuring >> fictitious names farmers to procure paddy? >> >> http://www.indianexpress.com/news/How-Chhattisgarh-fudged-records-for-multi-crore-paddy-scam/488464/ >> >> The names they have made up are also from one particular community. >> >> Anupam >> >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi< >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: >> > Dear Anupam jee, >> > >> > Origin of a river, past of an ascetic, mind of a woman are difficult to >> > understand, so do not try say the wise. >> > >> > >> > When ramayana was written, the writer was a changed persona, will you >> > atleast acknowledge that.......! >> > >> > Regards, >> > Rajen. >> > On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:55 PM, anupam chakravartty > > >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> dear vidya, >> >> >> >> Very kind of you to use such words. It shows your knowledge. Rishi >> Valmiki >> >> was a dacoit called Ratnakar or Valia Koli. This is from a children's >> site >> >> ( >> >> http://www.bolokids.com/2008/0542.htm) (I am quoting from a children's >> >> website because i think you are not matured enough to converse in this >> >> forum) >> >> >> >> *Dear children, >> >> >> >> I am sure you enjoy reading the biographies of the great visionaries of >> >> the >> >> world. The bed-time stories which your parents or grand parents tell >> you, >> >> must have some or other reference to the Ramayana, the great epic of >> >> India. >> >> Do you know the name of the author of this great piece of writing? In >> this >> >> update I shall tell you about that legendary, eminent personality of >> our >> >> country, Valmiki. * >> >> >> >> Valmiki, universally accepted and applauded as adikavi, the first among >> >> the >> >> poets – in India and particularly in Sanskrit – was the foremost to >> >> ascertain a metrical expression of epic dimension. He had the >> apparition >> >> to >> >> match the emotional ecstasy of an elevated soul endowed with compassion >> >> and >> >> concern for all living beings. It was in such a state of identification >> of >> >> the human being with the universal that his immortal epic, the >> Ramayana, >> >> originated from his heart. >> >> >> >> Valmiki born as 'Ratnakar' is a legendary Hindu sage . He was the tenth >> >> child of Pracheta. There is a religion based on Valmiki's teachings and >> it >> >> is called Balmikism. The Ramayana consists of 24,001 verses in seven >> >> cantos >> >> (kandas) and tells the story of Rama and Sita. Valmiki Ramayana is >> dated >> >> variously from 500 BC to 100 BC. >> >> >> >> Maharishi Valmiki is accepted by many Indian communities as the author >> of >> >> the Yoga Vasistha, this particular piece of work was taught to Rama >> when >> >> he >> >> was disillusioned with the world in large. The Yoga Vasistha is an >> >> incredible piece of text which discusses a wide array of philosphical >> >> issues. Moreover, it appears to have been written over 5000 years ago. >> At >> >> his hermitage he taught both males and females. He gave Sita shelter >> after >> >> her banishment from Ayodhya. >> >> >> >> The great Valmiki, originally named Ratnakar, was from a Kirata Bhil >> >> community. Valmiki Muni was from a backward caste community and his >> name >> >> before he became the Adi-Kavi (prime poet) who recorded the Ramayana, >> was >> >> Vailya. He was trained by the Narada Muni, who is thought to be a >> devotee >> >> of >> >> Vishnu or *Narayana. In another legend that goes, Valmiki, originally >> >> Valia >> >> Koli, was a dacoit and a robber who would rob people passing through >> woods >> >> and dense forests. He would not only rob out of their possessions but >> also >> >> cut their ears and wear them in the form of a chain. One fine day, >> Narada >> >> Muni was passing through this forest and Valia Koli happened to >> confront >> >> him. Narada Muni asked Valia if he knows what he is doing. Valia >> replied >> >> saying that it is this which runs his family and the family is aware >> about >> >> it.* Then Narada Muni asked Valia if his family members would share a >> part >> >> of a burden of his sins? Valia was so moved with this, he ran back to >> his >> >> home and asked every member of his family if they will share if the >> >> situation demands. No member of the family, neither his wife nor his >> sons >> >> replied in assertive. His wife said that the sins Valia is doing >> everyday >> >> are part of his life and it is his duty to feed his family and it is >> only >> >> he >> >> who is responsible for the sins he has been committing. Hearing this, >> >> Valia >> >> changed himself completely, from a dacoit to a Sage. He returned to >> Narada >> >> Muni and requested him to help enlighten himself, after which he became >> >> Sage >> >> Valmiki by penance. >> >> >> >> Once Valmiki was taking a stroll on the bank of the river Tamasa along >> >> with >> >> his disciple Bharadwaja. The river-water attracted his concentration. >> The >> >> pleasing and composed movement of the waves seemed to remind the >> prophet >> >> of >> >> the mature and the reticent qualities of his hero. He visualized the >> >> purest >> >> spark and tranquil of a pious man’s mind reflected in the flowing >> stream. >> >> But the very next moment he saw a upsetting panorama of a female bird >> >> suddenly separated from her partner who was mercilessly shot by a >> >> malicious >> >> hunter. He could not bear the contrast he perceived between the crystal >> >> clear water reflecting a placid heart and the work of a heartless >> huntsman >> >> who shot at the pair of naïve, guiltless birds absorbed in the valid >> >> gratification of life for no fault of theirs and to no benefit for him >> >> moreover. These two incidents had an impression on his mind and his >> >> creative >> >> art, which led to his composition of the greatest epic on earth, the >> >> Ramayana. >> >> >> >> It is unfortunate that men of letters know very little about this fêted >> >> poet >> >> worldwide repute except about his epic composition, the Ramayana. The >> poet >> >> did not say much about himself in his work nor could history keep any >> >> documentation and authentic account of his life – not even of the time >> he >> >> lived in. The word Valmika literally means an ant-hill that stands for >> >> deep >> >> meditation in a poised state of penance. Valmiki, the poet, is a >> product >> >> of >> >> this penance. Kalidasa, a great admirer of Valmiki, glorifies this >> aspect >> >> in >> >> his famous line in Meghasandesa.The revelation and the influence of >> >> Valmiki >> >> are seen at their best while portraying the character of Sita as an >> ideal >> >> woman – a sculpt for reticence, a pictogram of sophisticated >> simplicity, >> >> an >> >> incarnation of elegance and dignity, an austere observer of moral code >> of >> >> behavior, an exceptional paradigm of ultimate love and a singular >> >> amalgamation of valor and kindness. There are three important >> characters >> >> in >> >> the Ramayana who made significant contribution to the advancement of >> the >> >> march of Rama from Ayodhya to Mithila, Kishkindha and Lanka. They are >> >> Vishwamitra, Lakshmana and Hanuman—and these characters were created by >> >> Valmiki with utmost care. >> >> >> >> The Ramayana, as envisaged by Valmiki, is a stride in search of man – a >> >> man >> >> whose humanity stands out spirituality by the asset of its translucent >> >> transitoriness. Rama, the central figure of this march of cult presents >> a >> >> rare amalgamation of individual decorum and celestial ignite. He kept >> the >> >> sparkle to himself and within himself and widen the bouquet of complete >> >> love, warmth, concern, restoration and healing to the planet around >> him. >> >> These are the vital human values and virtues more accomplished than >> >> sermonized by Rama, the man of Valmiki’s vision. These traits of the >> main >> >> character by their instinctive penchant dominated almost all the other >> >> characters in the Ramayana. Good and bad are only virtual terms for a >> >> great >> >> soul like Rama. They do not have any unconditional meaning for him from >> a >> >> comprehensive point of view. They can be changed, altered and converted >> if >> >> the human advance is maintained with valor, obligation and kindness. >> The >> >> effect of this policy and the values of life finds abundant design >> >> throughout the Ramayana. >> >> >> >> The creative distinction of Valmiki lies in his genuineness in >> experience >> >> and ease in expression. There is tenderness in his words, equilibrium >> in >> >> his >> >> emotions and innate glibness in his commentary. He speaks less and >> makes >> >> his >> >> characters articulate for themselves. He has an inherent approach into >> the >> >> soul and a spectacular expertise in restraining the movements and the >> >> historic actions of his characters. The secret of his success as an >> epic >> >> poet of predictive vision lies in his all-absorbing penance or tapasya >> and >> >> unassuming firmness. >> >> >> >> The intermediary and the communication are equally imperative for the >> epic >> >> poet and Valmiki has accomplished both. He never thought that his >> sincere >> >> concern for the pair of birds divided by a cruel shot would result in >> the >> >> magnum oeuvre campaigning the basic human qualities like adoration and >> >> compassion. It assumed the form of a world classic with a message for >> each >> >> era to come and for the entire living beings. Valmiki is revered as the >> >> first poet, and the Ramayana, the first kavya. >> >> >> >> ENDS >> >> >> >> It is a fact that there are several versions of Ramayana written in >> >> several >> >> languages. Infact, the Prime Minister in waiting L.K. Advani has >> written >> >> about Valmiki: http://lkadvani.in/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5792 >> >> My point here is not to cite Ramayana or the mythological stories >> around >> >> its >> >> creation. My problem lies with the fact, how a play is being banned >> >> selectively by the Chattisgarh government by making tribals as the >> >> scapegoat. Just like how many other opportunists operate in that area >> >> and cash in on that tribal sentiment. >> >> >> >> -with regards >> >> anupam >> >> >> >> On 8/4/09, Vidya wrote: >> >> > >> >> > He was just one of the writers of ramayana. and when he wrote it he >> was >> >> > not >> >> > a dacoit you ignonramus ass hole. That he was a dacoit is also not >> >> > proved by >> >> > any reliable sources. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "anupam chakravartty" < >> >> > c.anupam at gmail.com> >> >> > To: "sarai list" >> >> > Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 2:01 AM >> >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] condemning ban on Charandas Chor >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > The Chattisgarh government perhaps doesnt realise that mythological >> >> > epic, >> >> >> Ramayana was written by a dacoit. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 8/4/09, prakash ray wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Press Release condemning ban on Charandas Chor: >> >> >>> We are shocked to learn from press reports that the BJP government >> of >> >> >>> Chhattisgarh has banned Charandas Chor, a classic of the modern >> Indian >> >> >>> theatre, written and produced by Habib Tanvir. The play was first >> done >> >> >>> in >> >> >>> the 1970s, and is originally based on an oral folk tale from >> >> >>> Rajasthan. >> >> >>> Habib Tanvir worked on this tale, introducing into it elements of >> the >> >> >>> art >> >> >>> and beliefs of the Satnami community. Satnami singers and dancers >> have >> >> >>> performed in this play, and it has been seen by members of the >> >> >>> community >> >> >>> several times. In Chhattisgarh and Madhya Pradesh, there are >> several >> >> >>> rural >> >> >>> troupes who are today performing some version of this play. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> The play itself is the story of a thief who, under the influence of >> a >> >> >>> guru, >> >> >>> pledges never to tell a lie. He sticks to his pledge, even at the >> cost >> >> >>> of >> >> >>> his life. This superb tragic-comedy, in a thoroughly entertaining >> and >> >> >>> artistic manner, brings into focus the moral and ethical >> degeneration >> >> >>> of >> >> >>> our >> >> >>> society, in which, paradoxically, it is a thief who ends up being >> more >> >> >>> honest than those who supposed to be the custodians of our >> morality. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Charandas Chor remains Habib Tanvir’s best-known play, and has been >> >> >>> performed literally hundreds of times by his world-renowned Naya >> >> >>> Theatre >> >> >>> troupe all over India and in several countries across the world. It >> >> >>> was >> >> >>> made >> >> >>> into a film by Shyam Benegal, with Smita Patil in the lead, in >> 1975, >> >> >>> and >> >> >>> was >> >> >>> the first Indian play to win the prestigious Fringe First award at >> the >> >> >>> Edinburgh Theatre Festival in 1982. It then did a successful run on >> >> >>> the >> >> >>> London stage. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> We demand that the Chhattisgarh government immediately revoke this >> >> >>> absurd >> >> >>> ban. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Arvind Gaur >> >> >>> Brijesh >> >> >>> Govind Deshpande >> >> >>> Javed Malick >> >> >>> Madangopal Singh >> >> >>> M.K. Raina >> >> >>> Moloyashree Hashmi >> >> >>> N.K. Sharma >> >> >>> Shahid Anwar >> >> >>> Sudhanva Deshpande >> >> >>> Vivan Sundaram >> >> >>> Wamiq Abbasi >> >> >>> Act One Theatre Group >> >> >>> Asmita Theatre Group >> >> >>> Bahroop Art Group >> >> >>> Jana Natya Manch >> >> >>> Jan Sanskriti >> >> >>> Janvadi Lekhak Sangh >> >> >>> Sahmat >> >> >>> _________________________________________ >> >> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> >>> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> >>> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> >>> To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >>> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Rajen. >> > >> > >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 15:55:49 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 15:55:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908050156q183e9492k864b2d0cb7cc6af8@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560908040209iade2453m5148550f1269c223@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908042106u2758d3acy46a72e53a547e5a0@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908042321y3a41da88ma21df3a82f068b84@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908042332k6d30533au765d2ceea38ff60d@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908050156q183e9492k864b2d0cb7cc6af8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Murali Ji I give you a reverse account of what you have said, and ironically, this is exactly in the vein you have sent the mail to me. May be this may make you understand what I wish to say actually. These are also facts you should know: 1) The Babri Masjid was said to have been constructed on a spot which was said to be the birth place of Lord Ram. Without any historical verification of the place, or of any temple having been constructed on the spot, a call was given by the Sangh Parivar and a Yatra was launched from Somnath to Ayodhya under the leadership of Lal Krishna Advani, to ask for the Ram Mandir to be constructed. Wherever the movement went, there were riots. Gujarat, Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh etc. And further more, once he was arrested by Lalu govt. in Bihar, there were more incidents of rioting, arson, looting and rape across India. The entire thing culminated in the second worst communal set of incidents across the country, particularly in Mumbai, of independent India, the first unarguably being the riots at the time of Partition. What was worse was that in many of the cases, unlike say the Partition, the incidents were planned, meticulously, and selectively Muslims and Hindus were burnt and butchered with arsonists having even voting lists and having marked homes of the 'enemy' communities. Was that secular? 2) The Shiv Sena gave a call based on an incident which took place at Radhabai Chawl in Jogeshwari, which was the burning of a few Hindus, to teach 'Muslims' a lesson to his party activists. The Shiv Sena activists then went on a killing spree, to follow the dictum of the party chief. The entire set of incidents is quoted properly in the Srikrishna Commission report, constituted to investigate the various incidents in 92-93 riots. The commission indicted Shiv Sena chief to have been a major figure responsible for deterioration of law and order in the city and the reason for crimes being committed. Till date, the Commission investigation has not helped the victims to get justice. And Thackeray openly challenged the police to arrest him. Is that secular? What's more, based on these incidents, Tiger Memon and his boss Dawood Ibrahim decided to take 'revenge' for what happened to 'their brothers and sisters' during these riots, by organizing 1993 blasts, which resulted in death of many innocents. Is that secular? Then again, at least this case was investigated and sentences were finally read out about 16 years later. What about the riots though? Will they ever be investigated? If not now, say in the next 1,000 years? 3) Then we come to 2002. The Gujarat govt first didn't do anything worthwhile at all to stop Godhra. The Railway Minister, Nitish Kumar, refused to order any inquiry into the incident at Godhra which led to burning of 58 people at the station. What's more, the incident was used to justify the carnage, rapes, mutilation, looting and killing (a massacre and genocide in a sense) of Muslims to 'teach' them a lesson. And the CM of Gujarat, Narendra Modi, led the example by openly stating Newton's third law as the reason for the riots. What's more, it took 72 hours for the Army to be deployed in Gujarat, when the Army could have been called much earlier. Three days, the rioters had a field day. The biggest irony is that when the Defence Minister George Fernandes was in Gujarat to take a stock of the situation, there was news of his vehicle being stoned as well! If the Defence Minister's vehicle is not safe, what security was the Modi govt giving to people, may I know? Was that secular? What is more, those who organized these riots were seen moving around with voter lists or municipal lists stating addresses of people. Newspapers like Sandesh and Gujarat Samachar were giving exaggerating reports daily one after another of one or the other temple being destroyed, when there were none in the first place. Editorials were published on a regular basis trying to justify the violence as the reaction to Godhra. Modi asked whether Manmohan was providing chicken biryani to those terrorists who were hiding in Charar-e-Sharif in the 1990's. Was Modi also enjoying dal-bati and Gujarati vegetarian cuisine specially ordered from hotels while the murderers and looters had a field day, with the police doing nothing at all, and sometimes even helping them in a few places? Or was he also getting supply of some of these women to enjoy himself? And what was his Health Minister doing being in the Control Rooms to monitor the situation during riots? And if he couldn't control his police, what is the use of his 56-ki-chaati? He doesn't even have the guts without security guards around him. Where was his masculine virtues then, when women were dragged out in front of their husbands and raped? Instead, Modi later went on a Gaurav Rath Yatra to prove that Gujarat had not lost its honour by allowing all this. Was that secular? Forget being secular, is that even justifiable? Were we dreaming when all this news came in? Some Gujaratis then said that Muslims are lying. Is the death of more than 1,000 people a lie? Are all these 'secularists' or those who state such things 'liars'? And only Godhra is the truth? Tell me this. 4) Karnataka. The Sangh Parivar wanted to teach Christians a lesson for 'proselytization'. Considering that it was their govt. (the BJP govt) in Karnataka, couldnt' they have registered a police case for conversions under 'fraud, force or allurement' against the respective organizations? And what about protection of minorities? Was it secular to see churches destroyed? Has the BJP decided to function in India under an alternative constitution to the one of India, namely the Sangh Parivar Constitution? 5) Orissa. Kandhamal. The Swami was killed by the Maoists who even accepted it, but the RSS and the hoodlums didn't have the balls to touch the Maoists, othewise they wouldn't even have been seen in this world later. Instead, they went on a killing spree to destroy Churches and kill tribals who had been Christians. This way they brought about mass exodus of people, gave a communal tinge to the election campaign (the accused in Kandhamal riots was the BJP candidate for the Assembly) and also forced many converted tribals to 'reconvert'. Do they even know themselves what it is to be a Hindu, forget being secular? Do they know what Hinduism stands for? And who gave them the right to decide whether the tribals are Hindus or not? 6) Every year, the BJP and its sister organizations force people indoors on the Valentine's Day, in the name of protecting Indian culture. Who made BJP the vanguard of the Indian culture? (or even the sister organizations for that matter) Has the BJP patented the Indian culture to have some IPR (intellectual property rights) over it? And do they have the licence to decide Indian culture? If I also become a CM and allow criminals to do to BJP activists what they have done to the rest of the nation, would that be acceptable or not? I want an answer to this question as well. State yes or no for this question. Is all this secular? Tell me that? I can put more questions here, as many as you would want. And if you think the Congress is communal, I have no issues with that. But I have a larger fundamental issue, and that is clear. Nobody has the right to take law in their own hands. And nobody has a right to restrict freedoms of others. And the BJP and the Sangh Parivar indulge in that, day in and day out. It's much better to have a UPA govt. any day, which can be criticized for so many scams and incidents and should be certainly punished for them (at least they respond to public pressure and do bring some good acts like the NREGA and may be the Right to Food will also come in), rather than the NDA, whose philosophy was development only for the sake of economic growth, and always minorities felt insecure (and of course, they had their share of scams as well). Even today, there are more incidents of communal violence on daily basis in states where BJP rules, compared to those where they don't rule. Can anybody answer that? Anyways, your problem as I said is that it's only religio-political matters which are important for you people. You always feel as if you are the victim. Hindus are the victim according to you people. You thrive on being victimized. And that's even strange when you yourself haven't experienced anything which should make you feel like a victim. And seriously, the only thing you are doing is to play politics with this victimization, rather than understanding the context in which those statements are made, or even trying to forget the past and move forward and do something which can help the people. Congratulations to the Sangh Parivar for having played politics with our minds and having decided us on this forum and elsewhere as well. And for the Hindutva believers, please start being rational and question your beliefs. Golwalkar must be having great time wherever he is. Regards Rakesh From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 5 16:01:44 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 03:31:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Britain To Put CCTV Cameras Inside Private Homes In-Reply-To: <766065.31267.qm@web94708.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <889407.45568.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> In a kind of reverse flow-line, Schools (in various parts of the world) are placing CCTVs in classrooms especially in playrooms for nursery kids. Parents can access these live webcams to see for themselves how their kids (especially tiny tots) are doing and how they are being treated.   Kshmendra   --- On Wed, 8/5/09, subhrodip sengupta wrote: From: subhrodip sengupta Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Britain To Put CCTV Cameras Inside Private Homes To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 3:14 PM This is a tale of lessons gone wrong.  Instead of rehabilitating children, one puts them under government is watching us (istead of god). This is bound to bring in an overall insensitivity and harshness in the child, besides teaching him or her they are from problem families. And who gives these officials the right to supervise, read, intrude into other's affairs and lives, when the'd like to keep things confidential themselves. May be the individual needs to die for such crooks to survive, and rule the nation. This needs to be learnt why such policies can be undesirable, from moral of society as a whole, who r we to say some body is immoral if we do the same? Else, who knows, we may have papers lauding it, and such things like cam stripping in India. ________________________________ From: Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi To: Tanya Singh Cc: reader-list at sarai.net Sent: Wednesday, 5 August, 2009 12:07:48 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Britain To Put CCTV Cameras Inside Private Homes Dear all,    Media can give spin to any story for it has enough blacksheep in its fold, pimps and prostitutes have also a news paper to teach morals and ethics of life and create thehelka, selectively, to selected political parties, but it takes much more than five crores to catch the MP of the oldest party.! Conviction of MP RK Anand, now accusation on Buta singh and Virbhadra singh are pointers which never came on the radar of these media men.!.But Bangaru accepting one lakh for "new year party" as per the pimps words is big thehelka.!     Hoodwinking the supreme court in release of freezed amounts from London bank by constitutional authorities, is no news for the thehelka.! Regards, Rajem n.On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 1:46 AM, Tanya Singh wrote: > I wouldn't take this seriously - the source is some spurious > 'journalism' in The Sunday Express. Variations on this story have been > floating around for a few years, with no real basis. Scare-mongering > tabloid trash, is all...  Tx > > > > 2009/8/4 Nishant : > > Britain To Put CCTV Cameras Inside Private Homes > > By Charlie Sorrel > > > > As an ex-Brit, I’m well aware of the authorities’ love of surveillance > > and snooping, but even I, a pessimistic cynic, am amazed by the > > governments latest plan: to install Orwell’s telescreens in 20,000 > > homes. > > > > £400 million ($668 million) will be spend on installing and monitoring > > CCTV cameras in the homes of private citizens. Why? To make sure the > > kids are doing their homework, going to bed early and eating their > > vegetables. The scheme has, astonishingly, already been running in > > 2,000 family homes. The government’s “children’s secretary” Ed Balls > > is behind the plan, which is aimed at problem, antisocial families. > > The idea is that, if a child has a more stable home life, he or she > > will be less likely to stray into crime and drugs. > > > > It gets worse. The government is also maintaining a private army, > > incredibly not called “Thought Police”, which will “be sent round to > > carry out home checks,” according to the Sunday Express. And in a > > scheme which firmly cements the nation’s reputation as a “nanny > > state”, the kids and their families will be forced to sign “behavior > > contracts” which will “set out parents’ duties to ensure children > > behave and do their homework.” > > > > And remember, this is the left-wing government. The Shadow Home > > Secretary Chris Grayling, batting for the conservatives, thinks these > > plans are “too little, and too late,” implying that even more > > obtrusive work needs to be done. Rumors that a new detention center, > > named Room 101, is being constructed inside the Ministry of Love are > > unconfirmed. > > > > > http://www.wired..com/gadgetlab/2009/08/britain-to-put-cctv-cameras-inside-private-homes/ > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail..sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajen. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>       Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 5 17:08:27 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 04:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908022231h639801e1t35199f3cdc6174a7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <762248.61305.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Murali   Thank you for forwarding the link.   1. You will notice however that the Pranayamic exercise is recommended (to quote from the webpage) "AFTER enunciating the ... mantras". It is not contained within the Mantra.   It would appear that I was correct in my earlier comment that "Breathing Exercise"  (Pranayam)  has nothing to do with chanting of the Gayatri Mantra.   Therefore, your recommendation "Gaytri mantra is also a breathing exercise" seems to be ill-concieved.   2. I agree with you that we should make "attempts to understand our own heritage, culture, tradition and scriptures" but as others have pointed out the OUR cannot be only Hindu because that is only one of the many religious communities. Understanding of "scriptures" especially has to be a personal choice even as it may be offered as a stream of study in institues of higher learning.   To put things in perspective, the issue arose out of what school going children should be taught or made to follow as a ritual. Obviously it cannot be only "Hindu" things. Will we be able to include bits and pices of all those religions followed in India alongwith "Hindu" things? That would be foolish. Apart from everything else, since religious faith is a matter of either tradition or personal choice why should precepts of one religion be forced upon children who do not belong to it? Why should those who are brought up as atheists or agnostics have to be exposed to any religion at all?   If there is some viewpoint that India is Hindu because of the majority numbers and if India tries to force that religious identity on all, you can be sure that a recipe for break-up of India is being forwarded.   The 'majorityness' of those who see India as Hindu is highly questionable if the elections are a pointer where the BJP (considered to be a Hindutva party) never did better than 25% support.    For anyone who professes love for India, it is important to understand the realities in India.   Kshmendra      --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Murali V wrote: From: Murali V Subject: Re: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS To: "Kshmendra Kaul" Cc: "sarai list" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:01 AM Dear Kshmenmdra, This is the procedure "(iv) Pranayama: Pranayamas are well known breathing exercises for harmonizing the breathing. A simple pranakarÌana pranayama is performed in the pancakarma after enunciating the following mantras. For this, inhale slowly at a steady pace with a feeling that the prana shakti of Gayatri inspissated around is being drawn-in with the breath. Hold the breath for few seconds to absorb this mahaprana that is sparkling like immense glow of the rising sun… Now exhale the breath at the same pace with a firm belief that the impurities and vile assimilation from inside are being expelled forever. Hold the breath out for few seconds with a feeling that the mahaprana is spreading out in the infinity after destroying the vices and sins inside. Repeat this cycle three times. The duration of holding the breath is normally maintained as half that of inhalation/ exhalation in each cycle….   The Mantras:  Oan Bhah, Oan Bhuvah, Oan Swah, Oan Mahah, Oan Janah, Oan Tapah, Oan Satyan |  Oan Tatsaviturvarenyan Bhargo Devasya Dhimahi Dhiyo Yonah Pracodayat ||  Oan Apo Jyotih Rasoamratan Brahn Bhur Bhuvah Swah Oan ||" Reference : http://gayatri.awgp.org/SimpleandEffectivedailypracticeofGayatri/ As regards Vuzoo or Namaaz that is also a way of living and is a choice left to the individual. My contention is that we have not made any attempts to understand our own heritage, culture, tradition and scriptures and I would prefer to try understand what we already have and then try attempting others. Our very own Vedas is vast and has enough scientific material, which has been best utilised by the germans. Regards, V Murali On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 6:11 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: Dear Murali   Thank you for the quoting from the Website. I noticed though that these are not the words of Satya Sai Baba. His words are reproduced in quotes.   As far as I am aware, for a Mantra to be a Pranayamic exercise, the recitation of words would have to be matched with specified timings, intensity (and source of breath) linked with Inhalation, Retention and Exhalation (Puraka, Kumbhaka, Rechaka).   As far as I am aware, there is no such regime for the Gayatri Mantra.   You did not comment on my suggestion. Let me repeat it:   """""""" While on this topic, why not introduce Vuzoo and Namaaz too into your proposed regime?            Vuzoo is an excellent habit for maintaining basic cleanliness and Namaaz entails a set of postures in which (fascinatingly) you can see a digest of various Yogic Aasanas.""""""   Kshmendra   --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Murali V wrote: From: Murali V Subject: Re: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS To: "Kshmendra Kaul" Cc: "sarai list" Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 5:20 PM Dear Kshmedra, "Touted" I dont need to as I am not marketing it or its concept. I just shared what I have come to understand of it. "Exercise of chanting Gayatri is essentially Pranayama, hence breathing is regulated, chanellised and perfected." This is a quote from " This a quote from "http://www.saibabaforbeginners.com/gayatri.html" Thanks and Regards, V Murali On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 3:22 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: Dear Murali   This is the first time I have heard Gayatri Mantra being touted as a 'breathing exercise'. Could you please elaborate on that?   If you were to speak about the benefits of Pranayamic exercises (especially Ujjayi Pranayam), that would make some sense. But Gayatri Mantra as a 'breathing exercise'????   While on this topic, why not introduce Vuzoo and Namaaz too into your proposed regime?   Vuzoo is an excellent habit for maintaining basic cleanliness and Namaaz entails a set of postures in which (fascinatingly) you can see a digest of various Yogic Aasanas.   Kshmendra  --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Murali V wrote: From: Murali V Subject: Re: [Reader-list] BOYCOTT SECTARIAN AGENDAS To: "Pheeta Ram" Cc: "sarai list" Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 12:00 PM Dear Anupam, Dear Anupam, The issue of uniformity has still not been addressed. A burkha clad girl in a school cannot be questioned and if done, the media and the entire pseudo-seculars go all out to  call it hindu fanaticism. Atma or the soul, life after death and re-birth are concepts which is their in most faiths. Moreover the Gaytri mantra is also a breathing exercise as the stanzas repeated in its correct form has set timings to control breath. Regards, V Murali From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Aug 5 19:10:03 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:40:03 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] North American Union: Implanting microchips in national ID cards Mexico Prepares its Citizens for the Grand Merger into the NAU - 183 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908050640y1425dd42me7a62939e31a1d7e@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, Just as all the data contained in RFID tags on all the medicines of a giant pharmaceutical company could be accessed at any given point to assess how much quantities of a drug has been sold, from where it has been sold and identify who was the dealer, who was the stockist, who was the agent, who was the doctor and who prescribed a particular drug and how much quantity of that drug is in transit, if it is in transit then where exactly is it at a particular moment, so likewise could we not collect all the data of all the people in this world and merge and purge all the information to ascertain, who is who and where, for once and for all. Would not know immediately who is ' poor' and who- a 'terrorist' and who- an illegal immigrant? Must we not then take time off from our busy schedules and bow down for ten seconds to pay homage to the memory of a Russian inventor of french ancestry, called, Leon Theremin? For it was Professor Leon Theremin who first thought of, what people say was, a covert listening device in 1946 and later used that knowledge to make Theremin, a musical instrument, which could play music without it being in contact with the musician. Then the story of RFID took a predictable turn. The Yankees copied it and then the Brits. They were using RFID to tag planes, some fifty years ago. Later, they started tagging, Mobile Payments, products, logistics tracking, animals (zoo/pets), inventory system, books in libraries, articles in museums and now maybe all the legitimate citizens of the world would benefit from the charms of this wonderful technology. All this is fine. Very good indeed! Brilliant piece of innovation!! Fantastic coming together of metal, plastic, silicon, electric signals!! However, are we to assume that people who are going to possess all this information are going to be 'just'? Would they act justly in carrying to their responsibilities? Would they justly deliver what they have promised? Would our blind consent for a national identity card, of which RFID tags may be a component or RFID tags could be fitted or retrofitted, would result in a more just world order? Please read the story below, as leaders of one more country, cites, India as an example to urge its citizens to surrender all their personal information to be stored in the archives of the state. My earnest appeal to all the Mexicans, who subscribe to this list is, please, please- think, reflect, debate and discuss every aspect of this technology and all the issues which are related to this process before proceeding to arrive a conclusion. Warm regards Taha http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14597 North American Union: Implanting microchips in national ID cards Mexico Prepares its Citizens for the Grand Merger into the NAU by Rev. Richard Skaff In this era of enhanced foods, enhanced bioweapons and WMDs, enhanced vaccines, enhanced military strategies, and enhanced interrogations, come enhanced driving licenses. Many of us have sincerely hoped that these technological advancements and alleged enhancements would eventually rub off on ethics in government and business. We also hoped that the Obama administration would create a new government division led by a new "Czar" to deal strictly with ethical issues. Unfortunately, we got instead Obama’s futile and pricey “Czars “R” US,” and a prospective enhanced driving license, which justifies the existence of a costly and useless Homeland Security Department (The Orwellian ministry of lies). With a magical microchip, the wizards of our corporate government have suddenly created a new world that is easily monitored, controlled, and manipulated. An enhanced driving license will contain the infamous microchip called “RFID” for radio frequency identification. These microchips can track the proles everywhere they go. Having them inserted into a driving license is the prelude to the eventual implanting of these microchips into the bodies of every human being, which many Christians believe it to be “the mark of the beast.” RFID works on a deceptively simple principle. An object is implanted or "tagged" with a small computer chip. The chip is monitored wirelessly by a "reader" that identifies its unique signature, and whatever information is on the chip is automatically stored in a linked database. What makes this different from classic "bar codes" is that the data storage capacity for RFID enables each and every tagged item to have its own unique identifier, whereas the bar code system has one code for an entire class of item. [1]. Enhanced driver's licenses have these built-in radio chips providing an identifying number or information that can be accessed by a remote reading unit while the license is inside a wallet or purse. The technology already had been implemented in Washington State , where it is promoted as an alternative to a passport for traveling to Canada . So far, the program is optional. But there are other agreements already approved with Michigan , Vermont , New York and Arizona, and plans are under way in other states, including Texas.[4]. On July 28, 2009, President Felipe Calderon proclaimed that Mexico will start issuing nationwide identity cards for its citizens starting this year and by 2012 everyone will have one. The cards will carry the bearer's photograph. It will also include information on fingerprints and biometric data, including facial and iris scans, on a magnetic strip. Most Mexicans currently use their voter ID cards for identification. These cards which contain a photo, signature and one fingerprint will continue to be issued. [3]. Interior Secretary Fernando Gomez Mont said on Tuesday July 28, 2009 that the new cards will help in the fight against organized crime, and ensure transparency in government aid programs. [3]. Ironically, the Good Samaritan government of Mexico did not realize that drug traffickers frequently use false identification documents to evade law enforcement. The Mexican population like a good sheep heading to the slaughter house will follow their Mexican leaders into perdition. It is difficult for people to take a political stand when they are starved and impoverished as in the case of Mexico and many developing countries. Not surprisingly, Mexico will be fully ready and microchipped by the time the North American Union is fully operative. Katherine Albrecht's radio talk show host, outspoken activist (active in the AntiChips.com and SpyChips.com websites) and RFID nemesis, had Michigan State Rep. Paul Opsommer on her radio program in February of 2009, who said that the government appears to be using a national anti-terrorism plan requiring people to document their identities as they enter the United States to promote the technology. "The Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative was just about proving you were a citizen, not that you had to do it by any specific kind of technology.” He also added, "We are close to the point now that if you don't want RFID in any of your documents that you can't leave the country or get back into it." In addition, Opsommer stated that his own state sought an exception to the growing federal move toward driver's licenses with an electronic ID chip, and he was told that was "unlikely," because "They were trying to harmonize these standards with Canada and Mexico [so] it had to apply to everybody.”[4]. Many countries besides the Security and Prosperity Partnership members have jumped on the RFID bandwagon, which has become a multibillion dollar global enterprise. On July 15, 2009, the Indian government announced that India is going to issue biometric ID cards to its 1.2 billion citizens. The Government in Delhi recently created the Unique Identification Authority, a new state department charged with the task of assigning every living Indian an exclusive number. It will also be responsible for gathering and electronically storing their personal details, at a predicted cost of at least £3 billion. [2]. Compulsory national identity cards are used in about 100 countries including Germany, France, Belgium, Greece, Luxembourg, Portugal and Spain. German police can detain people who are not carrying their ID card for up to 24 hours. South Korean, Brazilian, Italian and Malaysian ID cards contain fingerprints. Cards in some countries contain information on any distinguishing marks of the holder. In the European Union some cards can be used instead of a passport for European travel. ID cards are not used yet in the US , Canada , New Zealand , Australia , the Irish Republic , and the Nordic countries. [2]. Conclusion Is the implanting of microchips in national ID cards and eventually in humans the mark of the beast, or is it a clear sign of corporate greed and government tyranny? Do you feel safer now since governments (including our own) are and will be in total control of your movements, purchases, and whereabouts like a good father or a big brother who is looking out for the safety and well-being of his poor, vulnerable and helpless younger children? Man’s self-awareness, narcissism, and intense need for self-preservation have compelled him to sublimate and suppress his own evil. Evil deeds are not foreign to human nature, despite our psychological defenses that range from denial to repression and sublimation. You only have to look at wars to realize that “Evil is the true human nature.” That is the main reason why religious leaders and their cohorts of government demagogues have used fear and control throughout the ages to allegedly tame the beast in their populations. Sadly, they have purposefully forgotten to tame themselves, knowing well that one beast can never tame another, and realizing that their willful venture is specifically choreographed to dominate and exploit the rest of the herd. Notes 1. All Eyes On You How Spy Chips Are Quietly Reshaping Privacy. www.Consumeraffairs.com, December 15, 2005 2.. India to issue all 1.2 billion citizens with biometric ID cards. Times online, July 15, 2009 3. Mexico to issue citizens national identity card. Associated Press, July 28, 2009 4. Life with Big Brother. www.WorldNetDaily, February 28, 2009. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 19:36:51 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 19:36:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 7 Message-ID: [image: THE HINDU BUSINESS LINE] Financial Daily from THE HINDU group of publications Wednesday, May 30, 2001 ------------------------------ *• *AGRI-BUSINESS *• *COMMODITIES *• *CORPORATE *• *INDUSTRY *• *LETTERS *• *LOGISTICS *• *MACRO ECONOMY *• *MARKETS *• *NEWS *• *OPINION *• *VARIETY *• *INFO-TECH *• *CATALYST *• *INVESTMENT WORLD *• *MONEY & BANKING *• *LOGISTICS *• *PAGE ONE *• *INDEX *• *HOME Opinion | Next MSP muddle and food exports -- Boasts aside, can we make the grade? K. P. Prabhakaran Nair BOTH the US and Canada have cried foul and dragged India to the World Trade Organisation's dispute settlement body complaining that India is `exporting' `subsidised' wheat in violation of WTO norms. North America, the world leader in wheat production and export, has been stung by India's successful foray into the world grain market. Three decades ago, President Richard Nixon wrote of India as a ``basket case'', starving itself to death. However, the recent export of 16,92,022 tonnes of wheat to Bangladesh, Myanmar, the Philippines, Malaysia, South Korea, the United Arab Emirates, Om an and Yemen has surprised the world. There is even perhaps a false sense of glee within the agricultural bureaucracy that, after all, India has come of age on the food front. Both Russia and Iraq also import Indian wheat. The `export' was officially rou ted through the Food Corporation of India (FCI) through a global tender at the end of last year. Exporting nearly 2 million tonnes of wheat at a `competitive' price -- at $102 per tonne f.o.b. compared to the superior North American varieties at $101 -- the ``export exercise'' seems praiseworthy. However, not content with this effort, the Centre proposes to export another 5 million tonnes of wheat through a global tender this fiscal, based on the demand by exporting agencies such as State Trading Corporation, NAFED and MMTC. The Minister for Publ ic Distribution and Consumer Affairs has declared that the basic rate would be raised from $89 at present to around $92 per tonne. The carrying cost of FCI wheat works to around $5 per tonne per year and the Government had no option but to admit that the gap between the economic cost and the issue price for export was only `notional' when contrasted against the savings effected in more than two years of carrying cost of foodgrains. So, what is the big deal in exporting wheat and, in turn, raising the Mi nimum Support Price (MSP), when nearly a third of Indians -- including pregnant mothers, working women, undernourished children -- go without two square meals a day? Exporting any commodity has many implications -- overt and covert. A country does not export a commodity, much less an agricultural one, either to flag itself off to the rest of the world of its ``coming of age'' in the production of any marketable produce or to play to the galleries -- both internal and external -- whi le denying its citizens their needs. One is reminded of what happened on the Indian export front immediately after Independence. `First grade' woollen knitwear was exported to Russia, while only an inferior grade was made available locally. In contrast, a `Made in Germany' or `Made in Japan' commodity -- of the same quality -- was made available locally or exported. The phoren mania either in forward or reverse gear never seems to wear off the Indian psyche. But the tragedy of it all is that we are exporting food while 204 million Indians starve. But leaving aside the sentimental and compassionate aspects of the que stion, instead of being goaded forward only by the thrill of ringing registers, we should concentrate on the bare economics and science of it. With its latest decision to jack up the MSP for newly-harvested wheat by 5 per cent over last year's MSP, the Government would be buying a quintal of wheat at $13.12 and route it through STC, NAFED, MMTC, etc for export at $8.92 -- losing $4.2 per quinta l in the bargain. If the Government does export 5 million tonnes of wheat, this would mean a net drain of $21 million -- about Rs 100 crore less in the national kitty at the purchase level. India now has 46 million tonnes as buffer-stocks, thrice the min imum norm at 15.8 million tonnes. The additional cost of maintaining the excess stocks beyond the prescribed minimum of 19 million tonnes this April will be about $100 million -- a colossal Rs 465 crore per annum. This does not include the mountains of g rain waiting to be sold or disbursed since the last two years. The final picture reveals that on the one hand the Government is ceaselessly enriching the fat-cat farmer lobby, and on the other exporting wheat at prices that seem beneficial only to the foreign buyer. Thus, the domestic consumer, rich or poor, is left in the lurch and pays something like +/-Rs 15 a kg of atta from the open market -- atrocious, considering India's very low per capita income. The muddled `MSP syndrome' and the directionless agricultural policies make a mockery of India's food management, especially when food should be at the centre of India's developmental efforts. It is ironical that despite more than half a century of passi ng the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in 1948, where the right to food was acknowledged as a basic human right, the Government governs this vital sector with such insensitivity that it seems as though it is nobody's business to ensure that no Indi an goes hungry. The economic cost of FCI-stored wheat has escalated from $178 to $194 a tonne with the latest MSP revision upwards. The common refrain among the farm fraternity is that the country's granaries are overflowing and only the lack of purchasing power has led to this glut. This is a half-truth. If the government stops pampering the farming lobby to draw political mileage, the mountains of grain would vanish. Why do we not freeze the MSP and set a ceiling on the procurement volumes? If the compound growth of agriculture were to be analysed crop-wise, in the last two decades food production declined 31 per cent. Between 198 0-81 and 1991-92 and 1992-93 and 1999-2000 cereal production plummeted 32 per cent, rice 40 per cent, and wheat stagnated. So, the abundance of grain with the FCI is not a reflection of our enhanced productivity. Admittedly, the scientific fraternity is clueless over how to pierce the yield plateau, though much noise has been made and generated on the `biotechnology revolution'. Enhancing productivity is not an easy as there are a number of determining components. It is perhaps a myth to presume that farmers want ever higher prices every year. Access with ease to inputs, effective marketing opportunities and cost-of-production-l essening techniques -- primarily soil management, since more than 50 per cent of crop productivity is determined by this factor -- are some of the key elements. Unfortunately, neither the policy planners nor the scientific community is able to provide si gnificant alternatives. The current spate of exports' is a myth and mirage. It will add to the Gross Domestic Product superficially when the balance-sheet swells with the inflow of a few million dollars in the financial year ending in 2002. But at what expense? It will be an ir ony if this Government fails to translate the most basic of human needs, food, as a basic right of every Indian, especially when the FCI godowns are overflowing. In an address to the nation over three years ago, the Prime Minister declared that agricultu re was his first priority and he would strive to make India ``hunger-free'' in ten years. Will it remain yet another unfulfilled promise? (The author is senior fellow at the Alexander von Humboldt Foundation, Germany.) Comment on this article to BLFeedback at thehindu.co.in Send this article to Friends by E-Mail ------------------------------ Next: Energised inflation Opinion ------------------------------ Agri-Business| Commodities | Corporate | Industry | Letters | Logistics | Macro Economy| Markets | News | Opinion | Variety | Info-Tech | Catalyst| Investment World | Money & Banking| Logistics | Page One | Index | Home ------------------------------ Copyrights © 2001 The Hindu Business Line. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of The Hindu Business Line. ------------------------------ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 19:39:17 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 19:39:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 7 Message-ID: ------------------------------ [image: Frontline] *Volume 21 - Issue 13, Jun. 19 - Jul. 02, 2004* India's National Magazine from the publishers of THE HINDU Home *•* Contents ------------------------------ [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] *FOOD SECURITY* * Food for all * SUKUMAR MURALIDHARAN * The right-to-food campaign gets a fillip with the Common Minimum Programme of the new government incorporating far-reaching commitments on food security and the evolving constitutional doctrine that public welfare is a core obligation of the state. * IT could be coincidence. Or it could be the case that committed public interventions cannot for long be denied the political recognition that is their due. V.V. KRISHNAN * Mid-day meal at school in Orissa's Bolangir district. * The Common Minimum Programme of the newly installed coalition government headed by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh incorporates many far-reaching commitments on food security and child welfare. These are, in some measure, the recycling of older themes in social welfare policy, without a mention of the history of default on commitments given earlier. But there is a distinct change in the context. Quite apart from the pressure of public expectations, inherent in the mandate for change given in the last general elections, there is a perceptible shift under way in constitutional doctrine. Public welfare is now increasingly perceived not as an activity that the state can indulge in if it has the time and the resources left over from other essential activities. It is rather, increasingly being interpreted as part of the core obligations of the state. The CMP's commitments on nutrition and child welfare in fact, go no further than the obligations that have been enjoined on the state - as part of its constitutional duties - by the Supreme Court. This shift in doctrine - this elaboration of the scope of judicial scrutiny over the state's guardianship of the Fundamental Rights - has taken place in part, as a consequence of spirited public interventions at various levels, collectively known as the "right-to-food campaign". THE right-to-food (or RTF) campaign was formally launched in 2001 with an innovative mix of strategies, merging streams of social activism that had produced positive results in their own domains. The campaign depended in part on formally petitioning the judiciary for the enforcement of the right of every Indian to adequate nourishment. In this, it was inspired by preceding rulings of the highest court, which held that in cases of Fundamental Rights, it was willing to give little latitude to governmental pleas of financial stringency. Another tack that the RTF campaign adopted was awareness building, to bring moral pressure to bear on the administration at its interface with the people most vulnerable to food insecurity. Typically, the method employed - borrowed from the closely related campaign on the right to information - was the "jan sunwai" or public hearing, at which official claims of funds disbursement and assets creation were matched against the realities perceived by the supposed beneficiaries. A number of hearings of the RTF petition have been held in the Supreme Court since July 2001 and a series of orders of far-reaching significance issued. In November 2001, the Supreme Court directed all States to introduce a mid-day meal scheme (MDMS) for students in government and government-aided schools. It also ordered that the Integrated Child Development Scheme (ICDS) which was patchy and extremely selective in its coverage, be extended to provide universal coverage for all children below the age of six. From figures that had been submitted by commissioners appointed to assist in its deliberations, the Supreme Court concluded that at the minimum, this required that the number of anganwadi centres administering the ICDS needed to be increased from 600,000 to 1.4 million. Interestingly, the CMP incorporates some of the language of the Supreme Court's recent orders without specific acknowledgment. "A national cooked nutritious mid-day meal scheme, funded mainly by the Central government," it promises, "will be introduced in primary and secondary schools." Also on the agenda is the "universalisation" of the ICDS, and the provision of "a functional anganwadi in every settlement (to) ensure full coverage for all children". If the Supreme Court's orders since November 2001 are considered, the Central government would have no alibi for inaction on these two fronts, least of all the plea of financial stringency. According to commissioners appointed by the court, the Department of Women and Child Welfare (DWCW) in the Central government, has maintained that it would not be able to comply with the directive of the Supreme Court on this precise account. The number of functional anganwadi centres fell far short of the ICDS norm of one for a population of 1,000 (or 700 in the case of tribal areas). Correspondingly, the number of children theoretically covered was 34 million, against the total target population of 150 million. The actual coverage in fact, fell far short because of multiple leakages of resources from the system. In the estimation of the commissioners, no more than 26 million children are at present gaining the benefits of the ICDS. In response to queries from the commissioners, the DWCW had, as recently as November 2003, clarified that it was inclined to view the Supreme Court order "within the present guidelines, which apply to specific project areas". Universal coverage of all "settlements" was not conceived of, in part because the term "settlements" was not recognised within the guidelines. Far from expanding the number of anganwadi centres, the DWCW could only think of making the "existing and sanctioned centres" operational over time. It is significant that these pleas of incapacity and inability from the government have been replaced by the seemingly firm resolve of the CMP and the quite transparent adoption of the Supreme Court's nomenclature on implementing the ICDS in all "settlements". In a report submitted last February, the commissioners had in fact sought an explicit clarification that the term "settlement" referred to "a cluster of households within a village". In other words, a specific caveat was to be issued disallowing the DWCW plan to confine the nutrition scheme to children within the catchment zone of existing centres. IN April, the Supreme Court revisited all the orders it had issued in response to the RTF petitions. It noted that the ICDS was "perhaps the largest of all the food supplementation programmes in the world". The scheme, though "elaborate", needed to be expanded considerably "to ensure that nutritious food reaches all those who are undernourished or malnourished". It directed the Central government to "file within three months, an affidavit stating the period within which it proposes to increase the number of anganwadi centres" so that coverage is extended to all the intended beneficiaries. The new government clearly has little time to waste between the adoption of the CMP and the actual provision of funds to back up its declared intentions on child nutrition and welfare. The Supreme Court also recorded with anguish that several States had simply not introduced the MDMS. Several others had introduced it in a token or cursory fashion; while others still had hedged it around with so many conditions as to make it of limited practical value. Specific mention was made of Bihar, Jharkhand and Uttar Pradesh, though according to the February report of the commissioners, Assam and Haryana also have failed to make even a beginning in providing mid-day meals. The court was also informed that several States - including Arunachal Pradesh, Delhi, Himachal Pradesh, Meghalaya, Mizoram, Orissa, Punjab, West Bengal and Uttaranchal - had made only very meagre provisions. Complaints that parents were being asked for cash payments to meet a part of the costs were recorded in the case of Maharashtra and Mizoram. And from Rajasthan, Karnataka and Chhattisgarh came reports of caste discrimination in the appointment of Dalits as cooks. Taking on board all these concerns, a Supreme Court bench comprising Justices Y.K. Sabharwal and B.N. Agrawal has directed all States that have not complied with the November 2001 order to do so "not later than September 1, 2004". Compliance reports in this connection have been called for from the Chief Secretaries of all States and administrators of all Union territories by September 15. Costs should not under any circumstances, be recovered from the parents of the children. And in the appointment of cooks and helpers, preference was to be given to Dalit communities and the Scheduled Tribes. Responsibility for financing the MDMS now is equally shared between the Centre and the States. The Supreme Court has now clarified that the funding for construction of kitchen sheds and for conversion of foodgrain into cooked meals should be borne by the Centre. The Central government would also have to meet certain strict performance norms in various other of its welfare schemes, notably the Sampoorna Grameen Rozgar Yojana (SGRY) and the Antyodaya Anna Yojana (AAY). In all these respects, the orders issued by the Supreme Court are very specific and moulded in accordance with inputs received from the commissioners on infirmities in the implementation of these programmes. There has also been in the case of the SGRY, an order requiring the doubling of both foodgrain and cash allocations for the financial year 2004-05. And in the case of the AAY, the requirement that a poverty certificate (the so-called "below poverty line" or BPL card) be produced as a qualifying requirement has been deemed unfair. In all these respects, the stated intentions of the CMP do not conflict with the requirements of food and nutrition security as spelt out by the highest court. Reflecting its awareness of the current status of the RTF campaign, for instance, the CMP has promised that "Antyodaya cards for all households at risk of hunger will be introduced". Similarly, without going into specific figures, it has held out the assurance that "public investment in agricultural research and extension, rural infrastructure and irrigation (will be) stepped up in a significant manner at the very earliest". Doubling the allocation of foodgrain and cash for rural employment - in accordance with the Supreme Court directive - could be one method of fulfilling this promise. Yet with all the promises that it makes, the CMP does seek an escape clause. While setting a three-month deadline for the government to work out a "comprehensive medium-term strategy for food and nutrition security", the CMP does qualify the objective of achieving "universal food security" with the feasibility imperative. But if the trend of judicial hearings in the RTF petition are any indication, this plea may not cut much ice. Earlier pronouncements by the Supreme Court have already ordained that the government should "cut the flab" elsewhere to fund its essential welfare commitments. In preparing its first Budget, the Congress-led coalition government at the Centre would need not merely to take into account fiscal stability, but also the new doctrine of judicial scrutiny over its guardianship of the Fundamental Rights. * * Printer friendly page Send this article to Friends by E-Mail ------------------------------ Subscribe | Contact Us | Archives| Contents (Letters to the Editor should carry the full postal address) ------------------------------ [ Home | The Hindu | Business Line | Sportstar ------------------------------ Copyright © 2004, Frontline. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of Frontline ------------------------------ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 19:47:17 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 19:47:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 7 Message-ID: Online edition of India's National Newspaper Sunday, Nov 24, 2002 Group Publications Business Line The Sportstar Frontline The Hindu About Us Contact Us *Opinion* News: Front Page | National | Southern States | Other States| International | Opinion| Business | Sport| Miscellaneous | Advts: Classifieds | Employment | Obituary| Opinion - News Analysis [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] * Providing food * * In the era of marketisation, public spending on social security sectors such as health and education has given way to spending on areas whose relevance to the immediate or long-term interests of the poor is not obvious.Supriya Raychowdhury on the right to food. * IN THEIR seminal work on many dimensions of poverty and inequality in developing countries, Amartya Sen and Jean Dreze have drawn attention to the fact that in India the recurrence of famines has been avoided in the last five decades; but unfortunately, situations of chronic malnourishment and hunger have not been addressed with the same effectiveness. Today, we have a situation where public awareness of the issue of starvation is kindled only by an occasional media report on starvation deaths in specific locations. But public interest over this question is short-lived. The fact that millions of people go to bed hungry every night is, unfortunately, a feature of our political economy that does not frequently surface in the domain of public dialogue. It is not an issue over which dharnas or strikes are conducted, nor one over which politicians undertake padayatras, or over which elections are fought. Starvation is also not an issue for which high-power committees are appointed, nor is it ever a matter of heated public debate. This collective ennui over a question of life and death makes the sustained concern of some groups with the question of hunger all the more remarkable. The "Right to Food Campaign" is an informal network of organisations and individuals committed to the realisation of the right to food in India. The freedom from hunger and malnutrition is defined within the framework of the right to life. The foundational principles of the Campaign reiterate that this fundamental right requires not only equitable and sustainable food systems, but also the right to work, land reform and social security. The primary responsibility for guaranteeing these rights rests with the state, but the Campaign believes that in the present context effective state intervention would be a function of effective popular organisation. The group is committed to the creation of such organisations. Other abiding concerns of the Campaign include first, effective implementation of all nutrition-related schemes; second, introduction of cooked mid-day meals in all primary schools; third, reform and expansion of the public distribution system; and fourth, realisation of the right to work, especially in drought-affected areas. The Right to Food Campaign emerged in response to a writ petition filed in April 2001 by the People's Union for Civil Liberties in Rajasthan. The petition demanded that the country's large food stocks be used to protect people from hunger. In response, the Supreme Court has issued several interim orders. On September 3, 2001, the Court asked the State Governments to complete the identification of Below Poverty Line (BPL) population and the Antyodaya population (the poorest of the poor, consisting approximately of the bottom four per cent of the population) and issuing the identified people with cards indicating their BPL status. This is a very significant step since being identified as BPL is often a prerequisite for the poor to enjoy the benefits of food and other schemes related to basic needs. Many people are unable to lift BPL rice because they don't have enough cash, or they don't have cash at the right time. Many ration shops open for only a few days each month, which makes it difficult for poor families to lift their rice as they may not have cash at that point. The BPL price (Rs. 5/kg) is so close to the market price (about Rs.6/kg) that people get little benefit from the PDS. The thrust of the Supreme Court's new directive is that Governments need to address these lacunae by paying greater attention to those specifically identified as BPL. On November 28, 2001, the Supreme Court passed another significant interim order. This has three components. First, it converts the benefits of eight nutrition-related programmes (such as the "public distribution system" and the "integrated child development scheme") into legal entitlements. Second, it directs the State and Central Governments to adopt specific measures to ensure public awareness and transparency of these programmes; and third, it directs all State Governments to begin cooked mid-day meals for all children in government and government-assisted schools within six months. The directive to State Governments to provide mid-day meals to school children is central, both in the Supreme Court's directive and in the campaign around the Right to Food. An estimated 63 per cent of India's children go hungry every day. Half the children in the 6-14 age group do not have access to primary education. That is, 40 million children are out of school, according to the United Nations "State of the World's Children" report, 1999. There is now a great deal of evidence to show that a cooked mid-day meal scheme could address some of the issues relating to school enrolment, retention and learning levels. The results of a comparative study in Karnataka, between schools where the cooked mid-day meal scheme was functioning, and where there was no mid-day meal scheme, indicated better enrolment and attendance, higher retention rates with reduced drop out rate and a marginally higher scholastic performance of children in schools which provided a cooked mid-day meal. A study conducted by the National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, in a slum in the city notes the extent to which attendance levels in the slum school are determined by the provisioning of a mid-day meal. Not only is the meal an attraction for students and parents, it also enhances the attention span and levels of children and ensures that absenteeism due to illness is reduced (Urban Poverty and Education Deprivation, NIAS, 2002). In Tamil Nadu, where cooked mid-day meals have been provided for some years now, there has been a 30 per cent reduction in the dropout rates in government and government-aided schools. The response from State Governments to the Supreme Court directive has not been uniform. While States such as Kerala and Tamil Nadu had instituted mid-day meal schemes even earlier, only a few States have responded positively to the Court's directive. In Karnataka, for example, the mid-day meal scheme has been introduced by the Government only in some districts in the north-eastern parts. The local organs of the Right to Food Campaign have repeatedly petitioned the Government for a Statewide introduction of the scheme. In the most recent exchange, the Government has responded with the usual reason — shortage of funds. It is, of course, common sense that government spending on different sectors is a question of definition of priorities. In the era of marketisation, public spending on social security sectors such as health and education has given way to spending on areas whose relevance to the immediate or long-term interests of the poor is not obvious: for example, IT education or building of state-of-the art airports. The significance of movements such as the Right to Food Campaign lies in reiterating the simple fact that tackling hunger must be a question of the highest priority for any Government, way ahead of any other activity. >From a human rights perspective it is ironical that this basic need is lost sight of so easily in the business of government. While the democratic methodology bases itself on numbers, the irony of democracies indeed is that numbers do not translate to power or influence, as much as do access to key resources. The poor in democracies are therefore caught in the vicious cycle of exclusion from resources and power. From the perspective of crude political calculations on which most democracies are founded, a basic human need, for food, may be less important than the fact that that the starving have little influence upon power holders. It is therefore not surprising that the most sensitive response to the question of hunger emerges not from state agencies but from private initiatives where the response to hunger is determined by a human concern rather than with political calculations determined by the power or influence of different groups. In Karnataka, where a Government-sponsored noon school meal scheme is yet to take off on any significant scale, the most remarkable effort with the mid-day meal scheme has, in fact, been made by a private concern. The Akshaya Patra foundation, began a mid-day meal programme in July 2000, and now feeds 40,000 children in 210 schools in the Bangalore Rural district. Located on the premises of the ISCON temple in Bangalore city, the foundation provides facilities for preparation of the meals and for transportation to the schools. The foundation's target is to feed 250,000 children identified as needy in the Bangalore Rural district by 2005. Surveys of the impact of the Akshaya Patra programme have shown that attendance and overall academic performance of the students had improved in the schools after the meal programme was introduced. Diseases such as anaemia and skin infections, common among children of deprived sections, declined dramatically. The withdrawal of state welfare has occurred in advanced industrialised contexts as in North America and in the U.K, where the marketisation philosophy has been more powerfully implemented than in other industrialised welfare states in northern Europe. In India, in the present situation, the question would be whether and to what extent private charity or community endeavour can substitute for public spending in a context where the problem of hunger is as deep and pervasive as it is here. Indeed, welfare is as much a community concern as a state concern, but by definition community driven welfare programmes are limited in scope, and can only support and supplement state action. As the impulse to marketisation/privatisation expands, the logical inclination of Governments would be to withdraw from welfare activities, not only because of limited state resources (as the scope of taxation narrows) but also because the provision of welfare is no longer a strong ideological/political imperative. Thus, while the market does little for the poor, it nevertheless provides legitimacy for state callousness. For groups such as the Right to Food Campaign, then, the struggle is to turn a reluctant state towards a more positive welfare orientation. But the broader struggle perhaps lies in highlighting the underlying contradictions between marketisation and welfare in the present context and to continually question the current developmental paradigm. * * Printer friendly page Send this article to Friends by E-Mail Opinion News: Front Page | National | Southern States | Other States| International | Opinion| Business | Sport| Miscellaneous | Advts: Classifieds | Employment | Obituary| Stories in this Section - Providing food - A green patch in the desert - Hungry still Archives Yesterday's Issue Datewise Features: Life Magazine Literary Review Metro Plus Open Page Education Book Review Business SciTech Entertainment Young World Quest Folio ------------------------------ The Hindu Group: Home | About Us| Copyright | Archives| Contacts | Subscription Group Sites: The Hindu | Business Line| The Sportstar | Frontline| Home | Copyright © 2002, The Hindu. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of The Hindu ------------------------------ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 20:04:02 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 20:04:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 7 Message-ID: Dear all I am posting an article about an RTI campaign, which also has RTF as one of its subsidiary concerns. In addition, SARAI can feel proud to have been part of the convention mentioned in the article, and special congratulations (and thanks, although very belated) from my side for this contribution. I think SARAI can certainly make positive contributions in such fields, and we must all extend our support to such movements, and it feels great to hear this. Regards Rakesh Article: ------------------------------ [image: Frontline] *Volume 21 - Issue 26, Dec. 18 - 31, 2004* India's National Magazine from the publishers of THE HINDU Home *•* Contents ------------------------------ [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] *CAMPAIGNS* * A battle for information * SOWMYA KERBART SIVAKUMAR * The Second National Right to Information Convention, held in Delhi recently, sends out the message that the right to information movement in India can no longer be ignored by the lawmakers. * BY SPECIAL ARRANGEMENT * At the `public hearing' at Ekta Vihar in New Delhi. * ON October 20, London-based Transparency International released the Global Corruption Perception Index 2004. India is ranked 90 alongside six other countries out of a total of 146 surveyed. At around the same time, the country's capital witnessed an unusual, spontaneous and lively demonstration. A congregation of over 1,000 people from 20 States and 250 organisations from around the country gave a rallying call in 17 different languages: "*Hamara Paisa Hamara Hisaab*", *Nam Panam Nam Kanakku*", "*Aamcha Paisa Aamcha Hisaab**... "* which mean "Our money, our accounts". The slogan signifies a tremendous shift in how citizens react to the dubious distinction of being in "one of the 60 most corrupt countries in the world". No longer the tortured, silenced, cynical `victims of the system', but a vocal, aware public demanding transparency and accountability - an outcry growing louder by the day. This transformation has taken on a new idiom. It is language that is steadily cutting across all barriers and divisive structures, understood by all those who have realised how something as `abstract' as information or the lack of it directly impinges on their daily lives - on how much food they have, on what jobs they get, on which schools their children do not get. Crystallised into one sharp belief that binds them together are people old and young, illiterate and educated, rural and urban. Among them are peasants, labourers, middle class people, women, Dalits and the marginalised sections - *Janne ka hak, jine ka hak* (the right to know, the right to live). If this united call for accountability and the right to live set the mood and pace of the Second National Right to Information Convention (October 8-10) organised by the National Campaign for People's Right to Information (NCPRI) in Delhi, the energy and optimism resounded throughout the three full days that it lasted. The reasons for this are not far to seek. India is on the threshold of putting into place a law to counter corruption. The draft national Right to Information Act, 2004, with 36 proposed amendments to the inadequate Freedom of Information Act, 2002, is to be introduced in the winter session of Parliament. The origins of the draft date back to the struggles of the rural poor in arid Rajasthan who started questioning the doctored accounts in their panchayat: fake bills and muster rolls, non-existent buildings, and missing bags of cement meant for public works. For the first time, the demand for the right to information acquired a new meaning and form; shifting out of its dusty textbook, seminar-room existence, it focussed on real issues - drought, employment, health, education, electoral politics and so on. The right to information movement in India, unlike in many other countries, is a truly grassroots movement. The First National Convention on the Right to Information, which was held in Beawar in Rajasthan in 2001, according to Nikhil Dey, a founder member of the Mazdoor Kisan Shakti Sangathan (MKSS) "had a two-pronged objective - one, to increase the pressure for legislation, which was showing some positive signs in some States as well as at the Central level, and, second, to send out strongly the message that the right to information comes alive when connected to other rights of life; it is a very powerful tool that every campaign must use". In a span of three years, between Beawar and Delhi, the geographical spread and variety in the application of the right to information has simply burgeoned. Even as the idea of national legislation on the right to information was being mulled over, State governments started to take initiatives, with mounting public pressure. Nine States have passed right to information laws, in addition to which there are several executive orders at the State and national levels, which give citizens access to information from specific departments. The right to information is being demanded from many quarters and for many ends. It is really this integration taking place with a wide-ranging set of issues, from food security to displacement to communal violence, that is relatively new and continues to give it life and sustenance. * The owner of a ration shop responds to allegations of corruption at the hearing. * INDIA'S pioneering `role model' status in the international discourse on the right to information is unique. In a debate hitherto dominated by freedom of individual expression (as in Eastern Europe), the freedom of press or freedom of expression as talked of in the West and led by lobbying groups, the ability of ordinary people in India to link it to basic rights to life and indeed survival marks a major transformation in public discourse. Many countries like South Africa, Bolivia, Columbia, the Philippines and Japan have begun to draw lessons from the Indian examples, that is, by organising the demand for the right to information around local community groups. A SYMBOLIC and fitting start to the Delhi convention was a *jan sunwai*(public hearing). The *jan sunwai*, for those unfamiliar with the term, is a mode of participation popularised by the MKSS, a public forum where people speak up and are heard. The subject of the public hearing was the public distribution system (PDS), the issue of food security being a basic right for the poor, kept blatantly out of their reach. Specific testimonies were presented by residents of Ekta Vihar in the R.K. Puram area of Delhi where the hearing was held. Experiences of those from other parts of Delhi as well as representatives from Orissa, Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand, Karnataka, Andhra Pradesh and other parts of the country were also shared. The presentations were divided broadly along four issues: accountability, Dalits and access to the PDS, urban migrants and homeless and alternative approaches (to distribution). Many complaints pertained to the irregular timings of PDS shops, non-availability or sporadic availability of rations, extremely poor quality of rations, overcharging by the ration shop dealer, rations doled out below entitled quantities, apathy of officials, difficulty in getting new cards and so on. So how exactly does the use of right to information bring concrete solutions to these problems? The systematic exposé of rampant corruption in three specific ration shops in R.K. Puram area through the tool of public hearing was in itself a new learning for many present. Arvind Kejriwal of Parivartan, an organisation that works intensively on PDS-related issues in the capital, which brought to light the malfunctioning of these shops, said: "A *jan sunwai *is part of a larger, systematic process. First, we obtain the records through the right to information and do a physical verification. Figures in the daily sales register of the ration shops, once accessible, are compared with entries made in the ration cards of the cardholders and the actual rations received. This `social audit' is followed up with a *jan sunwai*, where the discrepancies are presented and people testify in public. The findings are then presented to the government, which is expected to take action as per the law." For instance, according to the daily sales register of one of the shops, Amir Hassan had been sold 75 kg of wheat and 50 kg of rice during April 2004. According to the ration card, however, he had been sold only 25 kg of wheat and 10 kg of rice. Actually, Amir Hassan said he did not receive anything during the month. Collecting evidence thus, it was found that the ration dealer had siphoned off 440 kg of wheat, which amounted to nearly the entire monthly quota to be distributed to the eight below the poverty line (BPL) families that are covered by the shop. Following the public hearing, the licences of all three ration shops were suspended. But this does not suffice, feels Arvind Kejriwal. Being a cognizable, non-bailable offence, cases should be registered and action taken according to the law, he points out. "Unless the findings of a *jan sunwai* are taken to their logical end, people will start losing faith in this potentially powerful tool," he cautions. The public hearing worked in many ways. As organisations such as Parivartan, the experience helped them to define sharper questions. Those for whom linking the right to information and the PDS in the way demonstrated by Ekta Vihar residents revealed new ground, it led to a burst of enthusiasm, an eagerness to put this new learning to test. "The fact that people themselves spoke and presented their problems (at the public hearing) in Delhi was very positive, something we would like to imbibe here," says Ramesh Kadam, coordinator of the Mumbai-based Rationing Kruti Samiti, an organisation that has done extensive work in obtaining ration cards for the urban homeless through advocacy and through educating people of their entitlements. In Madhya Pradesh, plans are afoot to conduct two public hearings. "We have collected information on 25 villages from the district administration for this," says Sachin Jain of the Right to Food Campaign in Madhya Pradesh. THE events spanning the next two days were as expansive as the public hearing, intensive. Music, theatre and art interspersed the plenaries and workshops held at the Delhi University Arts Faculty (North Campus). The reverberating spirit of `Hela' (an art form), in the music of farmers from Sawai Madhopur, a poor district in Rajasthan, the cry for accountability in different languages, and Shankar Singh's (of the MKSS) ever-popular rendition of "*mein nahin manga*" set in an exuberance that lasted right through the convention. The inaugural session, chaired by veteran journalist and former Member of Parliament Kuldeep Nayyar, was followed by the first plenary which saw people share their real experiences in using the right to information. The session gave a glimpse of the range of struggles people have faced, in places where the law exists, where it is poorly implemented, and where it is simply absent. The narrations by Susheela (MKSS, Rajasthan) and Santosh (Parivartan, Delhi) gave out one strong message: asking for information is like asking for the soul of this corrupt system. There will be resistance but unwavering public pressure can bring about visible changes. The second plenary was significant as it encapsulated the living form of the right to information today. The coming together of leaders from so many different campaigns on the common platform of right to information indicated the explicit adoption of this tool in their respective movements. The session was chaired by Dunu Roy and speakers included Jean Dreze (Right to Food), Medha Patkar (Dams and Displacement), Suman Sahai (Agriculture and Globalisation), Harsh Mander (Communalism and Marginalised Communities), Pradip Prabhu (Forests) and M.P. Parameswaran (Education) and senior right to information activists in the media like Prakash Kardaley (*Indian Express *, Pune) and Harivansh (*Prabhat Kabhar*, Jharkhand). The sheer variety of the parallel workshops organised was mind-boggling. But this, it seems, was precisely the idea behind holding 36 workshops on an equal number of topics. So, across the two days, one could stroll into any of the rooms at the Arts Faculty and hear discussions ranging from the role of the right to information on Land, Water, Biodiversity and Environment and Industrial Pollution to the World Trade Organisation and the World Bank, Globalisation or the Media, Elections, Budgets, Social Audit to Health, Disability Rights, Education and Communal Violence. "In Beawar, the approach was more cautious. This time the convention ventured into areas considered sacrosanct so far... . These areas would have been much more difficult to take on three or four years ago," said Nikhil Dey. An interesting aspect of the workshops was how it brought together people at different ends of the information spectrum. This was perhaps well exemplified by the workshop on `Knowing Power - the Politics and Political Economy of Information' organised by SARAI, a Delhi-based organisation on contemporary media research. Among the participants was Naurti Bai from Social Work and Research Centre (SWRC), Tilonia. An outspoken woman from a small village in Ajmer district, Naurti has been involved in the right to information movement from the outset. In an engaging debate, Naurti spoke of the grassroots experiences she brought with her, seeking answers to the practical problems she had faced while seeking information. The researchers at SARAI, on the other hand, visualised `right to information' as closely linked to the `right to broadcast'; to put out information freely and creatively, without bounds on the form and content. This, in their opinion, would create automatic pressure on those who manipulated information itself so far. To Naurti, this was obvious in an intuitive sense, although the speakers at SARAI somehow placed it in the foreground, over the right of simply seeking or getting information. Thus, as Naurti focussed on the `here and now' of the use of this right, grounded in rural realities, the SARAI speakers dwelled on expanding and redefining the entire conceptualisation of the right to information in the future. The fact that the workshops took place simultaneously meant it was impossible to be everywhere at the same time. Some saw this as a drawback. Sachin Jain said: "I was content with focussing on topics which were of interest to me." Paul Diwakar, of the National Campaign for Dalit Human Rights in Andhra Pradesh, said: "We have realised that human rights violation of Dalits crucially links up to the right to information. It hold the key to many other rights, like accessing justice by filing FIRs, getting pensions, land rights or food security. The convention gave us good access to strategies, on the other hand it also helped us to convey Dalits' perspective, which needs greater understanding." Sampat Kale of the National Centre for Advocacy Studies, Pune, said: "Maharasthra is a State where there is awareness about the right to information from both sides - the people and the government. The District Collector of Raigarh fined an official up to Rs.27,000 for not providing information as per the law. Cases of penalties have been recounted across Sangli, Satara, Thane, Pune and Akola districts. But most of these have been regarding applications of the Right to Information Act in urban areas. Rural awareness is still lacking in the State." It was really this reciprocity that was the hallmark of all these workshops and indeed the entire convention. Cross-applications between States, rural and urban areas, and across campaigns meant everyone had something to learn. Only the degrees varied, depending on who sat where. Two more plenaries were held on the concluding day. One was on "Right to Information and Law and Implementation," chaired by Supreme Court lawyer Prashant Bhushan. At the concluding plenary, plans and visions for future action were discussed by some of the activists who have come to symbolise right to information movements in their respective areas, like Arvind Kejriwal, Aruna Roy, Prashant Bhushan, Lal Singh and Praveena Imroza. The valedictory was chaired by former Prime Minister V.P. Singh, who spoke strongly in favour of the campaign. THE Delhi convention was not all about prose, debates and discussions. Various forms of cultural expression, sometimes spontaneous outbursts, characterised and lent the convention its true meaning. The poignant images of Godhra and Manipur in the films screened on day one, the touching lyrics and melody of a song specially composed by singers Vinay and Charul for the occasion, the outstanding performance of the Manganiyar singers and Kalbeliya dancers from Barmer (Rajasthan), and the songs of celebration and protests by farmers and peasants are memories that one carries long after the adieus were said. The power of the words "*mere jindagi ko janne ka haq re, ab haq ke bina kya jina, ye jine ka saman nahin* (my life has the right to know; living without rights is not equal to living)," in the song of Vinay and Charul went right out to the audience; today it is being sung at every forum, gathering or demonstration on right to information across the country. *"Kuch **bhi diary tak seemit nahin honi chahiye*"(nothing should remain limited, in a diary), sums up Susheela from Jawaja in Ajmer district. For someone who has been closely associated with the MKSS from its early days, the convention brought her the happiness of seeing an idea one has worked hard for take wing and spread far and wide. For Ramkaran, of SWRC, Tilonia, "it was an opportunity to learn from the experiences of 15-20 States in two days, something unthinkable otherwise." For many, the convention has served to energise and reinforce with even greater strength the potency of the right to information as a powerful tool in strengthening accountability and participative democracy. And for those who came with doubts, the convention helped to clarify at least in part the `whats' and `hows' of the right to information in reality. The convention has had some instantaneous effect. In Andhra Pradesh, where no right to information law exist, and issues have been raised so far only at the district level, a series of meetings were held in villages and panchayats after the convention. "We have realised the importance of taking up issues even at the village level. A case of swindling by the sarpanch in a village in Mehboobnagar with the connivance of revenue officials in the construction of latrines were brought to light and the District Collector has taken action," said G. Sudhakar, district secretary, Dalit Bahujan Shramik Union. Posters on the right to food and information have been printed and pasted in a number of panchayats; villagers have been urged to send postcards with their complaints directly to the administration. In Madhya Pradesh, organisations involved in the right to food campaign have now started giving applications in different departments about various schemes. Issues seen hitherto in isolation are now being redefined in terms of the right to information. In Maharashtra, an entire documentation of cases is being planned for its widespread dissemination. The writing is on the wall. The right to information movement in India has reached a critical stage. While the struggles continue at different levels, the campaign continues to grow and get enriched by these individual experiences. It is this show of strength that the Members of Parliament may want to remember when they take up the Right to Information Bill this winter. *Sowmya Kerbart Sivakumar, a freelance writer, is a member of Research for People, Jaipur.* * * Printer friendly page Send this article to Friends by E-Mail ------------------------------ Subscribe | Contact Us | Archives| Contents (Letters to the Editor should carry the full postal address) ------------------------------ [ Home | The Hindu | Business Line | Sportstar ------------------------------ Copyright © 2004, Frontline. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of Frontline ------------------------------ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 20:08:12 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 20:08:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 7 Message-ID: *Right to Food Campaign* Introduction Foundation Statement Collective Statement About the Secretariat Disclaimer Contact Addresses Campaign Updates Finance and Accounts Useful Links Introduction Current Highlights Key Documents Tools for Action and Research Events Rozgar Updates Articles News Feeds Campaign Materials Archives Introduction Supreme Court Orders Commissioners' Interventions Events Mid-day Meal Guidelines Field Surveys Articles Campaign Materials News Feeds Introduction Supreme Court orders Commissioners' Interventions Commissioners' Reports National Advisory Council Official Documents Field Surveys Articles Events News Feeds Introduction Articles The 'Right to Food' case Supreme Court Orders Supreme Court Commissioners Primers Posters and Plays Pamphlets Background Material Download - Hindi Font About the Campaign Legal Action Children's Right to Food Employment Guarantee Public Distribution System Primers & Posters Articles Field Reports Field Surveys EGA in News MDM in News ICDS in News Right to information campaign Forest Rights Unorganised Workers Bodhgaya Convention on the Right to Food and Work Kolkata Convention on the Right to Food and Work Rozgar Adhikar Yatra Banner project 19 September 2004 Convention on Right to Work Bhopal Convention Action day on Mid-day Meals April 2002 *Home* *Latest additions* *About the Campaign* *Employment Guarantee Act* *Mid-day Meals* *Right to Food Act* *ICDS* *PDS* *Legal Action* *Campaign Material* *Hindi section* *Research and Writings* *News Stories* *Related Campaigns* *Archives* *Site Map* *Search* *Contact Us* *UPDATE 3* Dear friends, The main recent development is a long hearing in the Supreme Court on 3rd September. A range of issues were discussed in the hearing, including mid-day meals, social security and the right to work. The first three items in the "headlines" below relate to this hearing. Today's headlines: 1. Mid-day meals: supreme court pulls up "delinquent states" 2. Further progress with the proposal for "ending destitution" 3. West bengal: workshop on the right to food and work 4. Pondichery breakfast scheme runs into trouble 5. Starvation deaths in karnataka and orissa 6. Reminders *1. MID-DAY MEALS: SUPREME COURT PULLS UP "DELINQUANT STATES"* On 28 November 2001, the Supreme Court directed all States and UTs to introduce cooked mid-day meals in all government and government- assisted primary schools within six months. Nine months later, many (in fact most) states are yet to introduce mid-day meals. They complain of lack of funds for the purpose. Taking a serious view of the situation, the Supreme Court stated on 3rd September that it cannot entertain this excuse for not implementing the order. It put the states on "verbal notice" that they have to decide by Monday 9th September to implement the scheme. Failing that, the court may allot money for the scheme directly from the centre and deduct this from central grants to the states. These statements, prominently reported the next day in front-page articles published in Times of India and Dainik Bhaskar, apparently sent shock waves in the Planning Commission and Finance Ministry. (Update: The hearing on Monday 9th September has been adjourned.) *2. FURTHER PROGRESS WITH THE PROPOSAL FOR "ENDING DESTITUTION"* At the 3rd September hearing, the GoI agreed in principle to the application on destitution, which puts forward a proposal for a major programme of food-based social security for destitute households. The government has asked for 4 months to frame the details of the programme. On 9 September, an inter-ministerial meeting was held for further discussion of this proposed programme. Despite some opposition from a representative of the Finance Ministry, the proposal was positively received (further details of the outcome of this meeting are awaited). We expect further rapid progress on this front during the next few weeks. *3. WEST BENGAL: WORKSHOP ON THE RIGHT TO FOOD AND WORK* In West Bengal, the "network for the right to food and work" proposes to conduct a workshop on 25-26 September. The programme includes a situation analysis relating to the right to food, the right to work, government schemes, and the status of the case in the Supreme Court. Also on the agenda are the strategies for the campaign, the campaign structure, and other issues. Specifically, the workshop hopes to develop a plan of action for the Action Day being planned under the banner "Godam Kholo, Kam Do". *4. PONDICHERY BREAKFAST SCHEME RUNS INTO TROUBLE* On 14th August 2002, the Government of Pondichery introduced a Breakfast scheme with some fanfare. The scheme covers all children in government schools up to class 10, and involves the provision of bread and milk as breakfast. This pioneering scheme ran into some trouble last week when children in a school fell ill with food poisoning. This turned out to be due to the bad quality of the milk. The programme was suspended for a couple of days, but is now back on track. This experience underlines the importance of the quality aspects of mid-day meal programmes, which have been a major concern of the Right to Food campaign. *5. STARVATION DEATHS IN KARNATAKA AND ORISSA* There were media reports this week of starvation deaths in Karnataka and Orissa. The governments rushed teams to "investigate" these deaths. It is safe to expect that they will return with the news that the deaths were not due to starvation. The Karnataka team is planning to get the help of doctors in the area to investigate and document the death. Starvation deaths are complicated to document since the immediate cause of death is generally some disease due to weakening of the body and loosing the power of resistance. Dr. Abhay Shukla of CEHAT has worked on developing a method of documenting starvation deaths, looking not just at the immediate cause of a death but also at the long-term events that have an effect on the body. It may become important for the campaign to document starvation deaths systematically, if we are to debunk official claims of deaths being due to diseases and other immediate causes. *6. REMINDERS* Please remember to help spread awareness of the campaign by reprinting items from these "Updates" in your organisation's newsletter, if possible. Our thanks to Dr. Shabhunath Singh Research Foundation and www.humanrightskerala.com for deciding to publish items from earlier updates in the bimonthly newsletter "Paharua", and in the "Children" and "This India" columns of the website. Thanks to VANI also for venturing to print news about the two Supreme Court applications in its newsletter. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Aug 5 20:05:50 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 15:35:50 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Afghan peace dependent on long-term political measures- 184 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908050735u7dcf6055j3c38b0c2ca8e36c7@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, Why does it appears to one, that if not the people, then surely the leaders and the proponents of national identity cards are parroting the same set of arguments in country after country? Please have a look at what, Shabana Fayyaz, Assistant Professor at Quaid-i-Azam University, had to say to about measures, to achieve long-lasting peace in Afganistan. Shabana cites Pakistan's own case as an example by suggesting, 'Pakistan took various measures to counter terrorism including the introduction of anti-terror laws, detainment of radical activists, high-level training for security personnel, and launching of computerised national identity cards and digital passports.' Are we to applaud now that since these measures are in place there is no terrorism in Pakistan OR terrorism is declining in Pakistan OR all terrorists are identified in Pakistan OR all terrorists could be identified in Pakistan OR the state of Pakistan knows who is who (as the whole world saw the promptness with which officials of NADRA identified Kasab)? Can someone kindly explain to readers of this list, what exactly is the relationship between terrorists and identity cards? Maybe if we look back we could perhaps get a sense of where these ideas are coming from. We don't have to look too far. In India, during the colonial rule, when these paddy's and tan's were trying to rule as the worthy officers of the Empire, they were moving into an known territory. They had to rule. To rule they had to know who is who. Who is good. Who is bad. How to handle bad people. Somehow they were under an impression that few of India are born criminals. Maybe they assumed that if India they have born shit-cleaners and born learned men, so why not criminals? Therefore they started a procedure, that from birth till death, all these born criminals belonging to the -criminal tribes- had to be registered with the local police station. Every time a member to the -tribe- had to move to a nearby village, he/she first has to go to the local thana and obtain a written permission of the thanedar and upon subsequent arrival at the next village he/she must show the permission to the thanedar of that village. If one were to fail to follow this procedure then one was liable to be flogged- fifty times. Jolly Good! Wasn't it!!! All members of all criminal tribes had to have some sort of an identification document on their person, if they were moving in and about, any area which was outside their homes. More ever, the enlightened officers of the empire also started a worthy practice called -godna-, tatooing through a needle, which involved branding on the forehead, or on the back, with signs or texts, to prominently identify the person belonging to the -criminal tribe- Needless to say, this rule was illogical. Needless to say it is inhuman to track all the people of a community from their cradle to their grave, in such a manner or in any manner. Needless to say not a single person on this earth is a born criminal. So this practice was universally condemned and not allowed. If it made sense to people in power fifty years ago, then is it not that with NIC, all the so called legitimate citizens of this world could perhaps be made into -criminals- of some sort. Because now you have to carry the card all the time. Now you have to tell them who are you. And even if you tell them you are you and not show the card then, they might believe you? You will still be under suspicion, would you not be? Is it not weird to be asked to prove your innocence, when the law says, you are innocent until proven guilty? Are the governments all over not over-turning one of the basic tenants of natural law which gives us a right to assume innocence and be above suspicion? With the coming up of national identity cards-, is not the entanglement of knowledge, power and the idea of modernity, with it's desire to have a precise written record, a code-able and an enduring history has again come to the fore? Could one not see that, in its desire to number one and number all, the inherent anxieties of the leaders of modern nation states are being demonstrated in perhaps the same amplitude as the nervousness which was perhaps expressed by the benevolent, far-sighted, and kind leaders of the colonial project? Please read the story below of the extremely insightful attributes of NIC and other counter-terrorism measures. Warm regards Taha http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=190425 Afghan peace dependent on long-term political measures Afghan peace dependent on long-term political measures Wednesday, July 29, 2009 Noor Aftab Islamabad There is a need for long-term political and strategic measures for sustainable peace in Afghanistan, as even an outright military victory over insurgents cannot ensure stability in the war-torn country. This was stated by Governor NWFP Awais Ahmad Ghani while addressing an international conference on �Strategic Stability in South-West Asia in the Wake of New US Policy for the Region�, organised by Foundation for Peace here Tuesday. The governor said the Afghan government has been facing various challenges that need concerted efforts on part of all stakeholders, as this is the only way to overcome the increasing insurgency in that part of the world. Referring to the ongoing military operation in FATA, he said the government has no other option but to restore its writ in all areas, as the militants could not be allowed to maintain their own rule anywhere in the country. �We have a young nation with great potential that needs the right opportunity to utilise its talent,� he said. Shabana Fayyaz, Assistant Professor at Quaid-i-Azam University, said counter-terrorism is essentially a teamwork and requires long-term multi-dimensional policies at national, regional and global level. �A pro-active and preventive counter-terrorism policy on sustainable grounds enlisting public support can be a way out of the terrorism challenge that is posing an equal threat to Pakistan and the world at large,� she said. She said Pakistan took various measures to counter terrorism including the introduction of anti-terror laws, detainment of radical activists, high-level training for security personnel, and launching of computerised national identity cards and digital passports. Dr Ishtiaq Ahmad, Associate Professor at Quaid-i-Azam University, said violent non-state actors are engaged in terrorist activities but unfortunately, India has been doing nothing except levelling allegations against Pakistan. He claimed that Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani handed over a dossier to his Indian counterpart in Sharm el Shaikh, indicating alleged India�s involvement in terrorist incidents in Pakistan. �Neither India nor Pakistan can afford the luxury of pursuing such a peace process that can only produce cosmetic results,� he said adding that India is yet to provide any solid proof of the alleged involvement of any Pakistani outfit in Mumbai terrorist attacks and now it is a ripe time to make concerted efforts to contain non-state actors. Simbal Khan, a strategic analyst, said the US-NATO regional strategy would focus on Pak-Afghan bilateral ties and launching of broad multilateral initiatives for restoring peace in Afghanistan. She said the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) and Afghanistan Action Plan have called for joint operation to combat terrorism, and curb drug trafficking and organised crimes. Simbal said they also committed to providing an expanded programme for training drug agencies, combating drug money laundering and improving border control. Gen (r) Ahsanul Haq, former chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee, said NATO has been expanding its role beyond Europe, as they are under an impression that it should have a larger role in the efforts to curb terrorism. Dr Rasul Bakhsh Raees, Professor at LUMS, said the international community should make efforts for rebuilding Afghanistan, promoting national reconciliation and ensuring stability in the war-torn country. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Aug 5 20:55:38 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 16:25:38 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Top 100 tax defaulters owe Rs 1.41 lakh cr to Govt Message-ID: <65be9bf40908050825k239101e7m5fb70df2b0c196fd@mail.gmail.com> http://ibnlive.in.com/news/top-100-tax-defaulters-owe-rs-141-lakh-cr-to-govt/98586-7.html GOVT REVEALS ALL Top 100 tax defaulters owe Rs 1.41 lakh cr to Govt Press Trust Of India New Delhi: Country's largest state-owned bank State Bank of India (SBI), automobile giant Tata Motors and oil major Indian Oil Corporation, besides Sahara India and its promoter Subroto Roy figure in the list of top 100 tax defaulters in the country. Disclosing the list of defaulters in the Rajya Sabha on Tuesday, the Minister of State for Finance S S Palanimanickam said in a written reply that top 100 tax defaulters owe to the exchequer Rs 1.41 lakh crore - more than three times the amount the government spends on National Rural Employment Guarantee Act (NREGA) scheme annually to provide employment to Below Poverty Line families. The Centre is taking various steps to recover the outstanding dues, the Minister said, adding that the government has requested the adjudicating authorities like ITAT and Settlement Commission "to dispose of high demand cases expeditiously." As per the list, disgraced stud farm owner Hassan Ali Khan tops the list of tax defaulters with an outstanding arrear of more than Rs 50,000 crore. The list of tax defaulters also includes stock broker late Harshad Mehta and his associates and other brokers like AD Narrotam and Hiten Dalal. While the SBI owes Rs 333.6 crore in taxes, Tata Motors and Indian Oil Corporation have to pay Rs 206.5 crore and Rs 210.3 crore to the treasury. As regards Sahara, many of its group companies figure in the list of defaulters, while its promoter Roy owes Rs 230 crore to the exchequer. Among leading public sector undertakings, BSNL has a tax demand of about Rs 2,417 crore, while NTPC faces a demand for Rs 622 crore. VSNL Ltd (now Tata Communications Ltd) has a tax demand of about Rs 505.5 crore. Among Sahara group companies, Sahara India and Sahara Airlines (now Jetlite) figure among tax defaulters apart from Sahara India Financial Corporation Ltd. Besides, corporates which owe taxes to the government are Coca Cola India (Rs 600 crore), Baron International (Rs 589 crore), Oracle Corporation (Rs 558 crore), Rolex Holding Ltd (Rs 558 crore), Aaditya Luxury Hotels (564 crore) and Reliance Energy (Rs 176 crore). Nokia, Daewoo Motors, Bunge India Ltd, Tata Industries, Satyam Computers and IBM Pvt Ltd are other companies which have been named on the list. The Minister said that these tax demands also include those which are difficult to recover for various reasons like demands notified under Special Court, inadequate assets and companies under litigation. However, among special measures being taken by the government to expedite recovery of default taxes includes monitoring of the recovery of amount in large cases by a Task Force. "Invariably arrear demand above Rs 25 crore is monitored by CBDT and between 10 crore and 25 crore by CCIT/DIT (Recovery)," the Minister said. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 21:13:25 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 21:13:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Top 100 tax defaulters owe Rs 1.41 lakh cr to Govt In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40908050825k239101e7m5fb70df2b0c196fd@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40908050825k239101e7m5fb70df2b0c196fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: These great corporates always keep on talking about subsidies being given in food sector or for petroleum sector. What about this 'subsidy' in the form of tax default being given to them? Why don't they talk about it as well? As for TATA, does the govt. has the guts to tell Mr. Ratan Tata to either pay the tax or pack his plans of making Nano from Gujarat? It has been asking the Sardar Sarovar dam oustees again and again to pack the area instead of proper rehabilitation being not provided to them at all. And will Modi govt. consider providing land to those ousted by this project in Gujarat, considering that the MP govt has already declared that it has no land for the same? Or does Modi have a great heart only for the rich? Regards Rakesh From taraprakash at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 21:18:34 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:48:34 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] A Scrap of Decency (NY Times) Message-ID: OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR. A Scrap of Decency. By BHARATI CHATURVEDI. Bharati Chaturvedi is the founder and director of the Chintan Environmental Research and Action Group.. Delhi, India. AMONG those suffering from the global recession are millions of workers who are not even included in the official statistics: urban recyclers -- the trash pickers, sorters, traders and reprocessors who extricate paper, cardboard and plastics from garbage heaps and prepare them for reuse. Their work is both unrecorded and largely unrecognized, even though in some parts of the world they handle as much as 20 percent of all waste. The world's 15 million informal recyclers clean up cities, prevent some trash from ending in landfills, and even reduce climate change by saving energy on waste disposal techniques like incineration. They also recycle waste much more cheaply and efficiently than governments or corporations can, and in many cities in the developing world, they provide the only recycling services. But as housing values and the cost of oil have fallen worldwide, so too has the price of scrap metal, paper and plastic. From India to Brazil to the Philippines, recyclers are experiencing a precipitous drop in income. Trash pickers and scrap dealers in Minas Gerais State in Brazil, for example, saw a decline of as much as 80 percent in the price of old magazines and 81 percent for newspapers, and a 77 percent drop in the price of cardboard from October 2007 to last December. In the Philippines, many scrap dealers have shuttered so quickly that researchers at the Solid Waste Management Association of the Philippines didn't have a chance to record their losses. In Delhi, some 80 percent of families in the informal recycling business surveyed by my organization said they had cut back on 'luxury foods,' which they defined as fruit, milk and meat. About 41 percent had stopped buying milk for their children. By this summer, most of these children, already malnourished, hadn't had a glass of milk in nine months. Many of these children have also cut down on hours spent in school to work alongside their parents. Families have liquidated their most valuable assets -- primarily copper from electrical wires -- and have stopped sending remittances back to their rural villages. Many have also sold their emergency stores of grain. Their misery is not as familiar as that of the laid-off workers of imploding corporations, but it is often more tragic. Few countries have adopted emergency measures to help trash pickers. Brazil, for one, is providing recyclers, or 'catadores,' with cheaper food, both through arrangements with local farmers and by offering food subsidies. Other countries, with the support of nongovernmental organizations and donor agencies, should follow Brazil's example. Unfortunately, most trash pickers operate outside official notice and end up falling through the cracks of programs like these. A more efficient temporary solution would be for governments to buoy the buying price of scrap. To do this, they'd have to pay a small subsidy to waste dealers so they could purchase scrap from trash pickers at about 20 percent above the current price. This increase, if well advertised and broadly utilized, would bring recyclers back from the brink. In the long run, though, these invisible workers will remain especially vulnerable to economic slowdowns unless they are integrated into the formal business sector, where they can have insurance and reliable wages. This is not hard to accomplish. Informal junk shops should have to apply for licenses, and governments should create or expand doorstep waste collection programs to employ trash pickers. Instead of sorting through haphazard trash heaps and landfills, the pickers would have access to the cleaner scrap that comes straight from households and often brings a higher price. Employing the trash pickers at this step would ensure that recyclables wouldn't have to be lugged to landfills in the first place. Experienced trash pickers, once incorporated into the formal economy, would recycle as efficiently as they always have, but they'd gain access to information on global scrap prices and would be better able to bargain for fair compensation. Governments should charge households a service fee, which would also supplement the trash pickers' income, and provide them with an extra measure of insurance against future crises. Their labor makes our cities healthier and more livable. We all stand to gain by making sure that the work of recycling remains sustainable for years to come. From javedmasoo at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 22:35:13 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 22:35:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pakistan bans JuD, LeT, JeM Message-ID: Isn't it time we also banned out JuDs and LeTs and JeMs of the saffron colour? ------- Pakistan bans JuD, LeT, JeM PTI 5 August 2009, 08:54pm IST ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan government has banned 25 religious and other organisations, including the Jamaat-ud-Dawah, Jaish-e-Mohammed and Lashker-e-Taiba, the interior ministry said on Wednesday. The ministry presented a list of the banned organisations in the National Assembly or lower house of parliament. It also said the Sunni Tehrik had been put on a watch list. Among the organisations included in the list of outlawed groups are JuD, LeT, JeM, Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan, Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Shariah Muahammadi, Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, Al-Akhtar Trust, Al-Rasheed Trust, Tehreek-e-Islami, Islamic Students Movement, Khair-un-Nisa International Trust, Islami Tehreek-e-Pakistan, Lashkar-e-Islam, Balochistan Liberation Army, Jamiat-un-Nisar, Khadam Islam and Millat-e-Islamia Pakistan. A majority of the groups have been linked to terrorist attacks and suicide bombings in Pakistan. India has blamed the JuD, LeT and JeM for several attacks on its soil, including the Mumbai attacks and the 2001 assault on the Indian parliament. Pakistan banned the JuD after the UN Security Council declared it a front for the LeT in December last year. The LeT and JeM were banned by the country in 2002. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/world/pakistan/Pakistan-bans-JuD-LeT-JeM/articleshow/4860723.cms From murali.chalam at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 22:48:55 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 22:48:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908040209iade2453m5148550f1269c223@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908042106u2758d3acy46a72e53a547e5a0@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908042321y3a41da88ma21df3a82f068b84@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908042332k6d30533au765d2ceea38ff60d@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908050156q183e9492k864b2d0cb7cc6af8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908051018k6b560c90gfd939715a82115dc@mail.gmail.com> Regarding Babri Masjid. Here is a reference on ASI findings before it was abruptly asked to abandon, for fear of excavating the obvious. "Findings of Ayodhya digging Summary of the main findings may be stated as follows: There is 'archeological evidence of a massive structure' below ground where the Babri mosque was destroyed in 1992. The structure bears distinctive features associated with ancient temples of northern India. There is evidence of building work there from as far as the 10th century. The excavated area covered beneath the disputed land at least 14,000 sq.ft over which the report said, 'There is sufficient proof of existence of a massive and monumental structure having a minimum dimension of 50x30 meters in the north-south and east-west directions, respectively, just below the disputed structure.' The report said that excavation clearly showed distinctive features of a tenth century temple below the ruins of the Babri Mosque. It further mentions discovery of 50 pillar bases, decorated bricks bearing features of 10th century, deities of Hindu gods and goddesses, lotus motifs, and curved architectural pieces. " Re: Godhra carnage. UC Bannerjee commision initiated by the congress on the Godhra Tran fire, was manipulated to generate the report of electric Short circuit. The reason is to protect the Congress men who were involved. "Was it secular to see chaurches destroyed" We made the mistake of watching Temples destroyed. Kandhamal Our central ministry did not have the guts do anything to the maoists even after the acceptance, but instead made statments on the aftermath of the Sawami's killing. On all of your questions, I have absolutely no disagreement, if all act in a truly secular manner. But the situation is otherwise. This so called secularism the brainchild of Nehru has been and will be minority appeasement and pseudo-secularism. Regards, V Murali On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 3:55 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Murali Ji > > I give you a reverse account of what you have said, and ironically, this is > exactly in the vein you have sent the mail to me. May be this may make you > understand what I wish to say actually. > > These are also facts you should know: > > 1) The Babri Masjid was said to have been constructed on a spot which was > said to be the birth place of Lord Ram. Without any historical verification > of the place, or of any temple having been constructed on the spot, a call > was given by the Sangh Parivar and a Yatra was launched from Somnath to > Ayodhya under the leadership of Lal Krishna Advani, to ask for the Ram > Mandir to be constructed. Wherever the movement went, there were riots. > Gujarat, Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh etc. And further more, once he was > arrested by Lalu govt. in Bihar, there were more incidents of rioting, > arson, looting and rape across India. > > The entire thing culminated in the second worst communal set of incidents > across the country, particularly in Mumbai, of independent India, the first > unarguably being the riots at the time of Partition. What was worse was that > in many of the cases, unlike say the Partition, the incidents were planned, > meticulously, and selectively Muslims and Hindus were burnt and butchered > with arsonists having even voting lists and having marked homes of the > 'enemy' communities. Was that secular? > > 2) The Shiv Sena gave a call based on an incident which took place at > Radhabai Chawl in Jogeshwari, which was the burning of a few Hindus, to > teach 'Muslims' a lesson to his party activists. The Shiv Sena activists > then went on a killing spree, to follow the dictum of the party chief. The > entire set of incidents is quoted properly in the Srikrishna Commission > report, constituted to investigate the various incidents in 92-93 riots. The > commission indicted Shiv Sena chief to have been a major figure responsible > for deterioration of law and order in the city and the reason for crimes > being committed. Till date, the Commission investigation has not helped the > victims to get justice. And Thackeray openly challenged the police to arrest > him. > > Is that secular? > > What's more, based on these incidents, Tiger Memon and his boss Dawood > Ibrahim decided to take 'revenge' for what happened to 'their brothers and > sisters' during these riots, by organizing 1993 blasts, which resulted in > death of many innocents. Is that secular? > > Then again, at least this case was investigated and sentences were finally > read out about 16 years later. What about the riots though? Will they ever > be investigated? If not now, say in the next 1,000 years? > > 3) Then we come to 2002. The Gujarat govt first didn't do anything > worthwhile at all to stop Godhra. The Railway Minister, Nitish Kumar, > refused to order any inquiry into the incident at Godhra which led to > burning of 58 people at the station. What's more, the incident was used to > justify the carnage, rapes, mutilation, looting and killing (a massacre and > genocide in a sense) of Muslims to 'teach' them a lesson. > > And the CM of Gujarat, Narendra Modi, led the example by openly stating > Newton's third law as the reason for the riots. What's more, it took 72 > hours for the Army to be deployed in Gujarat, when the Army could have been > called much earlier. Three days, the rioters had a field day. The biggest > irony is that when the Defence Minister George Fernandes was in Gujarat to > take a stock of the situation, there was news of his vehicle being stoned as > well! If the Defence Minister's vehicle is not safe, what security was the > Modi govt giving to people, may I know? > > Was that secular? > > What is more, those who organized these riots were seen moving around with > voter lists or municipal lists stating addresses of people. Newspapers like > Sandesh and Gujarat Samachar were giving exaggerating reports daily one > after another of one or the other temple being destroyed, when there were > none in the first place. Editorials were published on a regular basis trying > to justify the violence as the reaction to Godhra. > > Modi asked whether Manmohan was providing chicken biryani to those > terrorists who were hiding in Charar-e-Sharif in the 1990's. Was Modi also > enjoying dal-bati and Gujarati vegetarian cuisine specially ordered from > hotels while the murderers and looters had a field day, with the police > doing nothing at all, and sometimes even helping them in a few places? Or > was he also getting supply of some of these women to enjoy himself? And what > was his Health Minister doing being in the Control Rooms to monitor the > situation during riots? And if he couldn't control his police, what is the > use of his 56-ki-chaati? > > He doesn't even have the guts without security guards around him. Where was > his masculine virtues then, when women were dragged out in front of their > husbands and raped? > > Instead, Modi later went on a Gaurav Rath Yatra to prove that Gujarat had > not lost its honour by allowing all this. Was that secular? > > Forget being secular, is that even justifiable? > > Were we dreaming when all this news came in? Some Gujaratis then said that > Muslims are lying. Is the death of more than 1,000 people a lie? Are all > these 'secularists' or those who state such things 'liars'? And only Godhra > is the truth? > > Tell me this. > > 4) Karnataka. The Sangh Parivar wanted to teach Christians a lesson for > 'proselytization'. Considering that it was their govt. (the BJP govt) in > Karnataka, couldnt' they have registered a police case for conversions under > 'fraud, force or allurement' against the respective organizations? And what > about protection of minorities? > > Was it secular to see churches destroyed? Has the BJP decided to function > in India under an alternative constitution to the one of India, namely the > Sangh Parivar Constitution? > > 5) Orissa. Kandhamal. The Swami was killed by the Maoists who even accepted > it, but the RSS and the hoodlums didn't have the balls to touch the Maoists, > othewise they wouldn't even have been seen in this world later. Instead, > they went on a killing spree to destroy Churches and kill tribals who had > been Christians. This way they brought about mass exodus of people, gave a > communal tinge to the election campaign (the accused in Kandhamal riots was > the BJP candidate for the Assembly) and also forced many converted tribals > to 'reconvert'. > > Do they even know themselves what it is to be a Hindu, forget being > secular? Do they know what Hinduism stands for? And who gave them the right > to decide whether the tribals are Hindus or not? > > 6) Every year, the BJP and its sister organizations force people indoors on > the Valentine's Day, in the name of protecting Indian culture. Who made BJP > the vanguard of the Indian culture? (or even the sister organizations for > that matter) Has the BJP patented the Indian culture to have some IPR > (intellectual property rights) over it? And do they have the licence to > decide Indian culture? > > If I also become a CM and allow criminals to do to BJP activists what they > have done to the rest of the nation, would that be acceptable or not? I want > an answer to this question as well. State yes or no for this question. > > Is all this secular? Tell me that? > > I can put more questions here, as many as you would want. And if you think > the Congress is communal, I have no issues with that. But I have a larger > fundamental issue, and that is clear. Nobody has the right to take law in > their own hands. And nobody has a right to restrict freedoms of others. > > And the BJP and the Sangh Parivar indulge in that, day in and day out. It's > much better to have a UPA govt. any day, which can be criticized for so many > scams and incidents and should be certainly punished for them (at least they > respond to public pressure and do bring some good acts like the NREGA and > may be the Right to Food will also come in), rather than the NDA, whose > philosophy was development only for the sake of economic growth, and always > minorities felt insecure (and of course, they had their share of scams as > well). Even today, there are more incidents of communal violence on daily > basis in states where BJP rules, compared to those where they don't rule. > > Can anybody answer that? > > Anyways, your problem as I said is that it's only religio-political matters > which are important for you people. You always feel as if you are the > victim. Hindus are the victim according to you people. You thrive on being > victimized. And that's even strange when you yourself haven't experienced > anything which should make you feel like a victim. And seriously, the only > thing you are doing is to play politics with this victimization, rather than > understanding the context in which those statements are made, or even trying > to forget the past and move forward and do something which can help the > people. > > Congratulations to the Sangh Parivar for having played politics with our > minds and having decided us on this forum and elsewhere as well. And for the > Hindutva believers, please start being rational and question your beliefs. > Golwalkar must be having great time wherever he is. > > > Regards > > Rakesh > > > From murali.chalam at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 22:52:57 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 22:52:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pakistan bans JuD, LeT, JeM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4eab87870908051022j6607ca7o519e58baa3aad316@mail.gmail.com> We all know the history of pakistans actions and reactions. Regards, V Murali On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 10:35 PM, Javed wrote: > Isn't it time we also banned out JuDs and LeTs and JeMs of the saffron > colour? > ------- > > Pakistan bans JuD, LeT, JeM > PTI 5 August 2009, 08:54pm IST > > ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan government has banned 25 religious and other > organisations, including the Jamaat-ud-Dawah, Jaish-e-Mohammed and > Lashker-e-Taiba, the interior ministry said on Wednesday. > > The ministry presented a list of the banned organisations in the > National Assembly or lower house of parliament. It also said the Sunni > Tehrik had been put on a watch list. > > Among the organisations included in the list of outlawed groups are > JuD, LeT, JeM, Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan, Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Shariah > Muahammadi, Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, Al-Akhtar Trust, Al-Rasheed Trust, > Tehreek-e-Islami, Islamic Students Movement, Khair-un-Nisa > International Trust, Islami Tehreek-e-Pakistan, Lashkar-e-Islam, > Balochistan Liberation Army, Jamiat-un-Nisar, Khadam Islam and > Millat-e-Islamia Pakistan. > > A majority of the groups have been linked to terrorist attacks and > suicide bombings in Pakistan. India has blamed the JuD, LeT and JeM > for several attacks on its soil, including the Mumbai attacks and the > 2001 assault on the Indian parliament. > > Pakistan banned the JuD after the UN Security Council declared it a > front for the LeT in December last year. The LeT and JeM were banned > by the country in 2002. > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/world/pakistan/Pakistan-bans-JuD-LeT-JeM/articleshow/4860723.cms > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 23:16:42 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 23:16:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908051018k6b560c90gfd939715a82115dc@mail.gmail.com> References: <4eab87870908042106u2758d3acy46a72e53a547e5a0@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908042321y3a41da88ma21df3a82f068b84@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908042332k6d30533au765d2ceea38ff60d@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908050156q183e9492k864b2d0cb7cc6af8@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908051018k6b560c90gfd939715a82115dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Murali jee My response is as follows: 1) For Godhra, even the Nanavati Committee Report was not accepted by the SC, which then decided to constitute the SIT to investigate the truth of Godhra. So as it stands now, both the Nanavati and Banerjee reports are not available. However, since the Gujarat govt. claims that the 58 karsewaks were burnt alive, by the Muslims and since they claim it to be a planned conspiracy, therefore the Gujarat govt is culpable of having not been pro-active in their intelligence activities to gain information which could have helped in preventing it. And since it's the state responsibility of protecting their citizens, Godhra is also a failure of Modi govt going by the very claims they make. Secondly, the truth about whether those who died are karsewaks or not is still not yet out. The identity of all the 58 or 59 who died is still not yet known as per details released by the Railways Ministry. And most importantly, you still did not answer as to whether what happened after Godhra was secular or communal. If a Hindu somewhere murders 5 Muslims, would you like to see your mother, sister or wife being raped in retaliation to it? 2) Even assuming that the temple did exist, there are other fundamental questions which need to be asked, which you have conveniently avoided because you would never have the answers for those. But if you do have, be kind enough to answer the following: a) Assuming that the temple existed at the same spot, what's the proof that it's the exact spot of the birthplace of Lord Ram? b) Assuming that the temple did exist, what's the proof that Babar or one of his generals destroyed the temple and constructed the masjid at that spot? Can't it be possible that the temple was destroyed earlier and later the mosque was constructed at a spot which had rubble or nothing? c) What's the proof that the Ayodhya mentioned in Ramayana is the same as this Ayodhya we talk about? Is there historical proof of the same, since you are using an ASI claim to prove your point? Historians claim that the two Ayodhyas are different. What do you have to say about this? d) This is the most important question. Let's assume that the course of events as laid out by the Sangh Parivar is correct, and that the temple was demolished to make way for the mosque. If tomorrow I prove that at the spot where your house is built, a temple was constructed long back, and that it was demolished, and now your house must be demolished to make way for the temple, would you accept it or not? And why? Mind you, you won't be given any compensation at all for the loss of your land. e) What about those who lost their lives thanks to the temple madness in India? Are their lives so insignificant that on the rubble of their dead bodies is a temple required for Lord Ram? Is that what is acceptable to Shree Ram himself? 3) Regarding Kandhamal, the primary responsibility of solving the problem was that of the state govt and not that of the centre, because law and order is a state subject, and unless the situation is very terrible, the centre can't rush in forces without any request being received from the state govt, unless Article 356 is invoked and President's Rule is imposed on any state. Since the then govt was the Naveen Patnaik govt and was supported by the BJP as well, who stopped the BJP from ensuring that justice was done for the murder of the Swami? Instead they ensured that Kandhamal burnt and they could try to secure the vote bank. Does the BJP have the guts to take on the Maoists even in street fight or guerilla wars, or through democratic means, or through any other one-to-one ways (except of course the Salwa Judum where they use shields as pawns to protect themselves)? Their sister organizations are cowards, who only create violence when the BJP govt is in power, but are nowhere to be found when an opposition party is ruling. To take a simple example, when Digvijay Singh was CM of Madhya Pradesh, the VHP activists couldn't dare stop the Valentine's Day at all. But as soon as the BJP govt came to power, the day time during that day is like an undeclared curfew with empty streets. No children are seen on that day playing cricket, unlike say on day of bandhs declared by political parties. Why this? And as for Congress, my major concern is not that of pseudo secularism, but that of people. If the Congress makes tons of statements for Muslims but not one for Hindus, that's not my concern. Sachar Committee report proves that Muslims have got nothing thanks to 40 years of Congress rule (very little actually, which in my mind is equivalent to nothing). Hence, it's not an example of appeasement, but of Congress double speak regarding how they have treated Muslims. Regards Rakesh From c.anupam at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 01:12:42 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 01:12:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Pakistan bans JuD, LeT, JeM In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908051022j6607ca7o519e58baa3aad316@mail.gmail.com> References: <4eab87870908051022j6607ca7o519e58baa3aad316@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00908051242h78a61745gd6906cef7e9136a@mail.gmail.com> Dear Murali, Very few dare to tread on these waters. "To understand why the prime minister agreed to make a public reference to Balochistan, one needs to look at Indo-Pak relations through Pakistan’s eyes. Although few Pakistanis are willing to admit it openly, the truth is that the writ of the government has all but ceased to run in Balochistan. Long before the army cold-bloodedly killed Baloch National Front leader Sardar Akbar Khan Bugti in 2006, insurgents were blowing up telegraph lines, oil and gas pumping stations and pipelines every other day. The vast and forbidding terrain made it virtually impossible for the two divisions headquartered in Quetta, which was all the army command felt it could spare from the Indian border, to maintain more than a semblance of control. " also "If there is any truth at all in Pakistan’s allegations, Prime Minister Singh cannot be unaware of it. His willingness to flag Balochistan publicly may not therefore be aimed solely at Pakistan. It could also be a reminder to the Indian intelligence agencies that while they will continue to enjoy freedom of action, this will have to be within the confines of the policies laid down by the government." - excerpt from http://www.tehelka.com/story_main42.asp?filename=Op080809our_old.asp On 8/5/09, Murali V wrote: > We all know the history of pakistans actions and reactions. > Regards, > V Murali > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 10:35 PM, Javed wrote: > > > Isn't it time we also banned out JuDs and LeTs and JeMs of the saffron > > colour? > > ------- > > > > Pakistan bans JuD, LeT, JeM > > PTI 5 August 2009, 08:54pm IST > > > > ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan government has banned 25 religious and other > > organisations, including the Jamaat-ud-Dawah, Jaish-e-Mohammed and > > Lashker-e-Taiba, the interior ministry said on Wednesday. > > > > The ministry presented a list of the banned organisations in the > > National Assembly or lower house of parliament. It also said the Sunni > > Tehrik had been put on a watch list. > > > > Among the organisations included in the list of outlawed groups are > > JuD, LeT, JeM, Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan, Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Shariah > > Muahammadi, Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, Al-Akhtar Trust, Al-Rasheed Trust, > > Tehreek-e-Islami, Islamic Students Movement, Khair-un-Nisa > > International Trust, Islami Tehreek-e-Pakistan, Lashkar-e-Islam, > > Balochistan Liberation Army, Jamiat-un-Nisar, Khadam Islam and > > Millat-e-Islamia Pakistan. > > > > A majority of the groups have been linked to terrorist attacks and > > suicide bombings in Pakistan. India has blamed the JuD, LeT and JeM > > for several attacks on its soil, including the Mumbai attacks and the > > 2001 assault on the Indian parliament. > > > > Pakistan banned the JuD after the UN Security Council declared it a > > front for the LeT in December last year. The LeT and JeM were banned > > by the country in 2002. > > > > > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/world/pakistan/Pakistan-bans-JuD-LeT-JeM/articleshow/4860723.cms > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From yasir.media at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 01:22:44 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?eWFzaXIgftmK2Kcg2LPYsQ==?=) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 00:52:44 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?b?Wzo6IE1hdWogfiDZhdmI2KwgLy9dIFN1emFubmUn?= =?utf-8?q?s_Karachi?= In-Reply-To: <1249499266377.7ec74cb4-085e-45fc-a78e-be8ea4beb7ca@google.com> References: <1249499266377.7ec74cb4-085e-45fc-a78e-be8ea4beb7ca@google.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0908051252r37952478jd58682211f25ec9e@mail.gmail.com> Suzanne's Karachi Some street images from my stay in Karachi Pakistan in November 2008 and April 2009. http://maujmedia.blogspot.com/2009/08/suzannes-karachi.html From yasir.media at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 01:41:23 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?eWFzaXIgftmK2Kcg2LPYsQ==?=) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 01:11:23 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan In-Reply-To: References: <4eab87870908042106u2758d3acy46a72e53a547e5a0@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908042321y3a41da88ma21df3a82f068b84@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908042332k6d30533au765d2ceea38ff60d@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908050156q183e9492k864b2d0cb7cc6af8@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908051018k6b560c90gfd939715a82115dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0908051311o21dbf442qd83c220cdc7e7423@mail.gmail.com> This is a classic case of hijscking a list, a thread, by introducing an irrelevant topic through the thinnest of associative spinning. and starting an irrelevant deabate by taking attenyion to a topic which has been brought up to distract attention. practicing and prosletyzing are separate things. these are your hindu talibans and sipahs doing a gurgling exercise. christians are targeted in both india and pakistan by similar people. asad you are right. we need more citizen based politics. best yasir From yasir.media at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 01:46:37 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?eWFzaXIgftmK2Kcg2LPYsQ==?=) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 01:16:37 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan // Trolled to irrelevance Message-ID: <5af37bb0908051316i260c1606na011999477b4a992@mail.gmail.com> This is a classic case of hijacking a list, a thread, by introducing an irrelevant topic through the thinnest of associative spinning - whic is interesting to unpack nevertheless. and starting an irrelevant debate by taking attention to a topic which has been brought up to distract attention. practicing and prosletyzing are separate things. these are your hindu talibans and sipahs doing a gurgling exercise. christians are targeted in both india and pakistan by similar people. asad you are right. we need more citizen based politics. best yasir On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Murali jee > > My response is as follows: > > 1) For Godhra, even the Nanavati Committee Report was not accepted by the > SC, which then decided to constitute the SIT to investigate the truth of > Godhra. So as it stands now, both the Nanavati and Banerjee reports are not > available. However, since the Gujarat govt. claims that the 58 karsewaks > were burnt alive, by the Muslims and since they claim it to be a planned > conspiracy, therefore the Gujarat govt is culpable of having not been > pro-active in their intelligence activities to gain information which could > have helped in preventing it. And since it's the state responsibility of > protecting their citizens, Godhra is also a failure of Modi govt going by > the very claims they make. > > Secondly, the truth about whether those who died are karsewaks or not is > still not yet out. The identity of all the 58 or 59 who died is still not > yet known as per details released by the Railways Ministry. > > And most importantly, you still did not answer as to whether what happened > after Godhra was secular or communal. If a Hindu somewhere murders 5 > Muslims, would you like to see your mother, sister or wife being raped in > retaliation to it? > > 2) Even assuming that the temple did exist, there are other fundamental > questions which need to be asked, which you have conveniently avoided > because you would never have the answers for those. But if you do have, be > kind enough to answer the following: > > a) Assuming that the temple existed at the same spot, what's the proof that > it's the exact spot of the birthplace of Lord Ram? > > b) Assuming that the temple did exist, what's the proof that Babar or one of > his generals destroyed the temple and constructed the masjid at that spot? > Can't it be possible that the temple was destroyed earlier and later the > mosque was constructed at a spot which had rubble or nothing? > > c) What's the proof that the Ayodhya mentioned in Ramayana is the same as > this Ayodhya we talk about? Is there historical proof of the same, since you > are using an ASI claim to prove your point? Historians claim that the two > Ayodhyas are different. What do you have to say about this? > > d) This is the most important question. Let's assume that the course of > events as laid out by the Sangh Parivar is correct, and that the temple was > demolished to make way for the mosque. If tomorrow I prove that at the spot > where your house is built, a temple was constructed long back, and that it > was demolished, and now your house must be demolished to make way for the > temple, would you accept it or not? And why? Mind you, you won't be given > any compensation at all for the loss of your land. > > e) What about those who lost their lives thanks to the temple madness in > India? Are their lives so insignificant that on the rubble of their dead > bodies is a temple required for Lord Ram? Is that what is acceptable to > Shree Ram himself? > > 3) Regarding Kandhamal, the primary responsibility of solving the problem > was that of the state govt and not that of the centre, because law and order > is a state subject, and unless the situation is very terrible, the centre > can't rush in forces without any request being received from the state govt, > unless Article 356 is invoked and President's Rule is imposed on any state. > > Since the then govt was the Naveen Patnaik govt and was supported by the BJP > as well, who stopped the BJP from ensuring that justice was done for the > murder of the Swami? Instead they ensured that Kandhamal burnt and they > could try to secure the vote bank. Does the BJP have the guts to take on the > Maoists even in street fight or guerilla wars, or through democratic means, > or through any other one-to-one ways (except of course the Salwa Judum where > they use shields as pawns to protect themselves)? Their sister organizations > are cowards, who only create violence when the BJP govt is in power, but are > nowhere to be found when an opposition party is ruling. > > To take a simple example, when Digvijay Singh was CM of Madhya Pradesh, the > VHP activists couldn't dare stop the Valentine's Day at all. But as soon as > the BJP govt came to power, the day time during that day is like an > undeclared curfew with empty streets. No children are seen on that day > playing cricket, unlike say on day of bandhs declared by political parties. > > Why this? > > And as for Congress, my major concern is not that of pseudo secularism, but > that of people. If the Congress makes tons of statements for Muslims but not > one for Hindus, that's not my concern. Sachar Committee report proves that > Muslims have got nothing thanks to 40 years of Congress rule (very little > actually, which in my mind is equivalent to nothing). Hence, it's not an > example of appeasement, but of Congress double speak regarding how they have > treated Muslims. > > Regards > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From asad_abbasi at hotmail.com Thu Aug 6 06:57:54 2009 From: asad_abbasi at hotmail.com (asad abbasi) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 01:27:54 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan Message-ID: Dear All, Alot has been written about this post that, very shockingly, is interesting. It clearly indicates the kind of politics that hoovers in South Asia. Where any problem, how big or small, is moulded into religious issue to get maximum attention, coverage or ever so important VOTES. Division of Pakistan, India and Bangladesh was infact a division of land.Since then, land has played a very strong influence on our modern thought, culture and literature. However, as the replies to this post has enlightened and educated us that of all the things, religion , is what drives most people in this part of world. Nevertheless, i would have liked more discussion on this issue because it is not only Pakistan's predicament but of South Asia. Regards, Asad _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Messenger: Celebrate 10 amazing years with free winks and emoticons. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/ From asad_abbasi at hotmail.com Thu Aug 6 07:35:13 2009 From: asad_abbasi at hotmail.com (asad abbasi) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 02:05:13 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism (2) Message-ID: Dear All, Ishtiaq Ahmed, in this article, rejects the view held by some that feudalism has never existed in South Asia. And doing so, he goes on to explain the historical and social aspect of this idea. And how Feudalism was adopted to capture the South Asian essence. How this phenomenon has neglected people of education, freedom and Justice. He cleverly looks beyond the single economic aspect of feudalism and talks about the cultural and social impacts on the society. Regards, Asad http://www.thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=111680 In a debate article in the Dawn of April 30, 2008, Haider Nizamani seeks to dispel the widely held view that feudalism exists in Pakistan. His asserts that feudalism never existed in South Asia. To consider honour killings and exploitation of peasants by mighty landlords as indicative of feudalism he finds untenable because according to him, by 1999, 88 percent of cultivated land in Pakistan was in farm sizes below 12.5 acres. Just over half the total farms were less than five acres in size. "This would hardly be the hallmark of a feudal society," he asserts. This economistic argument is a legitimate one, but too narrow, mechanical and formalistic, because it presupposes that if the economic base changes cultural and ideological changes follow suit. In reality there is never a perfect fit between a mode of production and cultural and ideological forms, otherwise the thoroughly capitalised economies of the Middle East would have no place for tribal norms and behaviour patterns. Marx was acutely aware of the far more complex relationship between the economic base and the superstructure. He famously observed that Christian theology remained the reigning ideology much after classical feudalism had disintegrated and dissolved. Classical feudalism emerged in Western Europe when the old city-based high cultures of the Greeks and the Romans disintegrated and the locus of social activity moved into local units headed by tiered nobility, which controlled their serfs through a range of economic and extra-economic coercions. The feudal vassals, in turn, rendered services to the superior lords, and that chain of services finally connected to the king, who was named as the "first among the lords." He claimed a tribute or levy from the lesser nobles, who also provided him with soldiers. The above description is, of course, an ideal one in the tradition of Max Weber. In reality no two feudalisms anywhere in Europe were the same, except in the essential sense of an agrarian economy providing much of the surplus, as well as the soldiers upon which the ruling classes built their leisured lifestyle. Christian theology justified social hierarchy, and people knew their place in society – the rule was that the superiors were chosen by God and obeying them was a duty and obligation. Professions and roles in society were inherited from father to son. Feudal society was fatalistic, superstitious and static in relative terms. Now, in the case of South Asia, striking parallels can be found in the power structure that prevailed during the pre-colonial period. A maharaja or emperor at the apex of that order received tribute from a descending but segmented hierarchy comprising smaller rajas and nawabs, mansabdars and zamindars and village headmen. They also provided him with soldiers. The incumbents of land grants under the mansabdari system (military-feudal order) held their fiefs during the pleasure of the emperor. Original rights to a fief were largely absent and the king could in principle expropriate an incumbent at any time. That is why Indian feudalism was more of an oriental despotism because in Western feudalism even absolute kings were in principle bound by the law. The mansabdars ruthlessly exploited the peasants and the other agrarian workforce to extract as much wealth as possible before their estate was taken away from them. When the Mogul Empire weakened and the hold of the central government loosened, the lesser rajas and nawabs asserted their independence, while the mansabdars became hereditary owners of their estates. The caste system and the elitist Islam of the Muslim ruling class – both sanctioned strict hierarchy. The Muslim ruling class, comprising descendants of Turkish, Afghan, Persian and Arabic origin, until the 19th century did not start associating with the bulk of the local converts. The threat they perceived from the rising Hindu middle class that had taken to education, trade and commerce, forced them to evolve the novel idea of a Muslim nation comprising all Muslims. The British perpetuated the dependency of princes, nawabs, rajas and so on, on the colonial state, but with ample latitude to continue to exploit the peasants, artisans and other poor working on their estates. In fact the British most skilfully used land grants to create landlords that would see to it that protests and rebellion among the people in their areas of influence were effectively crushed. At the same time, with regard to Punjab and the NWFP the landlords compelled their peasants to join the British Indian Army. With the exception of Pir Sabghatullah Pagaro and some others from Sindh, almost all other pirs (spiritual leaders) were solid supporters of the British Raj. Sindhi, Punjabi and Pakhtun Muslims lagged behind the Hindus and Sikhs because while the latter opened schools the Muslim landlords did not allow schools to be be established in their domains. Ayub Khuhro and many other Sindhi leaders were educated in schools established by Hindus. In the late 1960s, when I was associated with the Mazdoor-Kissan Party of Major Ishaq, some of our comrades tried to provide free literacy classes to peasants in the stronghold of the Mazaris and Legharis in southern Punjab. They were harassed out of those areas. The land reforms introduced by Ayub Khan and followed by a series of radical land reforms by Zulfikar Ali Bhutto weakened that class but did not abolish it. Even now in southern Punjab and interior Sindh that decadent class exercises considerable political clout and upholds a culture that is oppressive of women, and the poor in general. I was horrified when a landlord told me some years ago that all the young women that came to work on his farm had to provide him with sexual gratification, otherwise they would not be employed. Bonded labour still exists, notwithstanding a ban imposed on it by the Supreme Court. Feudalism in the strict Western sense may never have existed, but its subcontinental forms during the pre-colonial, colonial and post-colonial periods were no less harsh and oppressive. Pakistani feudalism may now be in its death throes, but that is no reason to exonerate it from continuing to wreck the lives of vast numbers of the rural poor in this region of peripheral capitalism. As a cultural and ideological system Pakistani feudalism is a bastion of conservative values and moribund ideas. The sooner its remaining vestiges are abolished and a healthy class of peasant proprietors is created, the better it would be for all of us. In the years ahead we would need to radically modernise our agricultural sector so that a smaller number of farmers can produce many times more the food we will need. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Messenger: Thanks for 10 great years—enjoy free winks and emoticons. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/ From elkamath at yahoo.com Thu Aug 6 09:14:23 2009 From: elkamath at yahoo.com (lalitha kamath) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 20:44:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Graduate stud opp to work with historians on urban colonial India Message-ID: <429056.12891.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: Richard Harris Is there a good, potential graduate student out there who is interested in urban-colonial India? Together with Robert Lewis, at the University of Toronto, I am doing research on the social geography of Bombay and Calcutta around the turn of the twentieth century. Among other things, Robert and I are making extensive use of the decennial censuses, especially for 1901. We are looking to take on a graduate student, probably M.A. but possibly Ph.D., to work with us on this. The ideal student would have some background in urban geography, urban history, or urban studies; some experience with Indian libraries and archives; and/or experience in the use of large databases. Of course we don't necessarily expect to find someone who fits all those criteria! We would be able to supervise a student for a degree in Geography (U. of Toronto or McMaster) or History (McMaster). The preferred start date would be September 2010. If you know of a suitable student, please ask them to get in touch with Robert or me, at one of the following email addresses. harrisr at mcmaster.ca lewis at geog.utoronto.ca Or pass this message on to anyone you think may be interested. Thank you. Richard Harris Richard Harris, Professor, School of Geography and Earth Sciences, McMaster University http://www.science.mcmaster.ca/geo/faculty/harris/index.html H-Urban: http://www.h-net.org/~urban/ (including logs & posting guidelines) Posting Address: h-urban at h-net.msu.edu / mailto:h-urban at h-net.msu.edu (Click) From murali.chalam at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 09:23:59 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:23:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan // Trolled to irrelevance In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0908051316i260c1606na011999477b4a992@mail.gmail.com> References: <5af37bb0908051316i260c1606na011999477b4a992@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908052053s7537431bjac947f35b05ffcf0@mail.gmail.com> There is no question of any hijacking. Would request you to read through the thread and find out who started the topic which you claim has been hijacked. Regards, V Murali On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 1:46 AM, yasir ~يا سر wrote: > This is a classic case of hijacking a list, a thread, by introducing > an irrelevant topic through the thinnest of associative spinning - > whic is interesting to unpack nevertheless. and starting an irrelevant > debate by taking attention to a topic which > has been brought up to distract attention. > > practicing and prosletyzing are separate things. these are your hindu > talibans and sipahs doing a gurgling exercise. > > christians are targeted in both india and pakistan by similar people. > > asad you are right. we need more citizen based politics. > > best > > yasir > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Rakesh Iyer > wrote: > > Dear Murali jee > > > > My response is as follows: > > > > 1) For Godhra, even the Nanavati Committee Report was not accepted by the > > SC, which then decided to constitute the SIT to investigate the truth of > > Godhra. So as it stands now, both the Nanavati and Banerjee reports are > not > > available. However, since the Gujarat govt. claims that the 58 karsewaks > > were burnt alive, by the Muslims and since they claim it to be a planned > > conspiracy, therefore the Gujarat govt is culpable of having not been > > pro-active in their intelligence activities to gain information which > could > > have helped in preventing it. And since it's the state responsibility of > > protecting their citizens, Godhra is also a failure of Modi govt going by > > the very claims they make. > > > > Secondly, the truth about whether those who died are karsewaks or not is > > still not yet out. The identity of all the 58 or 59 who died is still not > > yet known as per details released by the Railways Ministry. > > > > And most importantly, you still did not answer as to whether what > happened > > after Godhra was secular or communal. If a Hindu somewhere murders 5 > > Muslims, would you like to see your mother, sister or wife being raped in > > retaliation to it? > > > > 2) Even assuming that the temple did exist, there are other fundamental > > questions which need to be asked, which you have conveniently avoided > > because you would never have the answers for those. But if you do have, > be > > kind enough to answer the following: > > > > a) Assuming that the temple existed at the same spot, what's the proof > that > > it's the exact spot of the birthplace of Lord Ram? > > > > b) Assuming that the temple did exist, what's the proof that Babar or one > of > > his generals destroyed the temple and constructed the masjid at that > spot? > > Can't it be possible that the temple was destroyed earlier and later the > > mosque was constructed at a spot which had rubble or nothing? > > > > c) What's the proof that the Ayodhya mentioned in Ramayana is the same as > > this Ayodhya we talk about? Is there historical proof of the same, since > you > > are using an ASI claim to prove your point? Historians claim that the two > > Ayodhyas are different. What do you have to say about this? > > > > d) This is the most important question. Let's assume that the course of > > events as laid out by the Sangh Parivar is correct, and that the temple > was > > demolished to make way for the mosque. If tomorrow I prove that at the > spot > > where your house is built, a temple was constructed long back, and that > it > > was demolished, and now your house must be demolished to make way for the > > temple, would you accept it or not? And why? Mind you, you won't be given > > any compensation at all for the loss of your land. > > > > e) What about those who lost their lives thanks to the temple madness in > > India? Are their lives so insignificant that on the rubble of their dead > > bodies is a temple required for Lord Ram? Is that what is acceptable to > > Shree Ram himself? > > > > 3) Regarding Kandhamal, the primary responsibility of solving the problem > > was that of the state govt and not that of the centre, because law and > order > > is a state subject, and unless the situation is very terrible, the centre > > can't rush in forces without any request being received from the state > govt, > > unless Article 356 is invoked and President's Rule is imposed on any > state. > > > > Since the then govt was the Naveen Patnaik govt and was supported by the > BJP > > as well, who stopped the BJP from ensuring that justice was done for the > > murder of the Swami? Instead they ensured that Kandhamal burnt and they > > could try to secure the vote bank. Does the BJP have the guts to take on > the > > Maoists even in street fight or guerilla wars, or through democratic > means, > > or through any other one-to-one ways (except of course the Salwa Judum > where > > they use shields as pawns to protect themselves)? Their sister > organizations > > are cowards, who only create violence when the BJP govt is in power, but > are > > nowhere to be found when an opposition party is ruling. > > > > To take a simple example, when Digvijay Singh was CM of Madhya Pradesh, > the > > VHP activists couldn't dare stop the Valentine's Day at all. But as soon > as > > the BJP govt came to power, the day time during that day is like an > > undeclared curfew with empty streets. No children are seen on that day > > playing cricket, unlike say on day of bandhs declared by political > parties. > > > > Why this? > > > > And as for Congress, my major concern is not that of pseudo secularism, > but > > that of people. If the Congress makes tons of statements for Muslims but > not > > one for Hindus, that's not my concern. Sachar Committee report proves > that > > Muslims have got nothing thanks to 40 years of Congress rule (very little > > actually, which in my mind is equivalent to nothing). Hence, it's not an > > example of appeasement, but of Congress double speak regarding how they > have > > treated Muslims. > > > > Regards > > > > Rakesh > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From murali.chalam at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 09:32:13 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:32:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan In-Reply-To: References: <4eab87870908042106u2758d3acy46a72e53a547e5a0@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908042321y3a41da88ma21df3a82f068b84@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908042332k6d30533au765d2ceea38ff60d@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908050156q183e9492k864b2d0cb7cc6af8@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908051018k6b560c90gfd939715a82115dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908052102g2acc55e5mfd5de39da94d466@mail.gmail.com> Regarding you querries on the genuinity of Ramayana and the happenings, all of the references to planetary positions in the Ramayana have been cross verified through a powerful planetarium software. Please check the link below http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=116&page=19 Re: "If tomorrow I prove that at the spot where your house is built, a temple was constructed long back, and that it was demolished,...." There is a difference between acquiring a house through a regular process of registration through Govt. agencies and forcefully assurping. Regards, V Murali On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Murali jee > > My response is as follows: > > 1) For Godhra, even the Nanavati Committee Report was not accepted by the > SC, which then decided to constitute the SIT to investigate the truth of > Godhra. So as it stands now, both the Nanavati and Banerjee reports are not > available. However, since the Gujarat govt. claims that the 58 karsewaks > were burnt alive, by the Muslims and since they claim it to be a planned > conspiracy, therefore the Gujarat govt is culpable of having not been > pro-active in their intelligence activities to gain information which could > have helped in preventing it. And since it's the state responsibility of > protecting their citizens, Godhra is also a failure of Modi govt going by > the very claims they make. > > Secondly, the truth about whether those who died are karsewaks or not is > still not yet out. The identity of all the 58 or 59 who died is still not > yet known as per details released by the Railways Ministry. > > And most importantly, you still did not answer as to whether what happened > after Godhra was secular or communal. If a Hindu somewhere murders 5 > Muslims, would you like to see your mother, sister or wife being raped in > retaliation to it? > > 2) Even assuming that the temple did exist, there are other fundamental > questions which need to be asked, which you have conveniently avoided > because you would never have the answers for those. But if you do have, be > kind enough to answer the following: > > a) Assuming that the temple existed at the same spot, what's the proof that > it's the exact spot of the birthplace of Lord Ram? > > b) Assuming that the temple did exist, what's the proof that Babar or one > of his generals destroyed the temple and constructed the masjid at that > spot? Can't it be possible that the temple was destroyed earlier and later > the mosque was constructed at a spot which had rubble or nothing? > > c) What's the proof that the Ayodhya mentioned in Ramayana is the same as > this Ayodhya we talk about? Is there historical proof of the same, since you > are using an ASI claim to prove your point? Historians claim that the two > Ayodhyas are different. What do you have to say about this? > > d) This is the most important question. Let's assume that the course of > events as laid out by the Sangh Parivar is correct, and that the temple was > demolished to make way for the mosque. If tomorrow I prove that at the spot > where your house is built, a temple was constructed long back, and that it > was demolished, and now your house must be demolished to make way for the > temple, would you accept it or not? And why? Mind you, you won't be given > any compensation at all for the loss of your land. > > e) What about those who lost their lives thanks to the temple madness in > India? Are their lives so insignificant that on the rubble of their dead > bodies is a temple required for Lord Ram? Is that what is acceptable to > Shree Ram himself? > > 3) Regarding Kandhamal, the primary responsibility of solving the problem > was that of the state govt and not that of the centre, because law and order > is a state subject, and unless the situation is very terrible, the centre > can't rush in forces without any request being received from the state govt, > unless Article 356 is invoked and President's Rule is imposed on any state. > > Since the then govt was the Naveen Patnaik govt and was supported by the > BJP as well, who stopped the BJP from ensuring that justice was done for the > murder of the Swami? Instead they ensured that Kandhamal burnt and they > could try to secure the vote bank. Does the BJP have the guts to take on the > Maoists even in street fight or guerilla wars, or through democratic means, > or through any other one-to-one ways (except of course the Salwa Judum where > they use shields as pawns to protect themselves)? Their sister organizations > are cowards, who only create violence when the BJP govt is in power, but are > nowhere to be found when an opposition party is ruling. > > To take a simple example, when Digvijay Singh was CM of Madhya Pradesh, the > VHP activists couldn't dare stop the Valentine's Day at all. But as soon as > the BJP govt came to power, the day time during that day is like an > undeclared curfew with empty streets. No children are seen on that day > playing cricket, unlike say on day of bandhs declared by political parties. > > Why this? > > And as for Congress, my major concern is not that of pseudo secularism, but > that of people. If the Congress makes tons of statements for Muslims but not > one for Hindus, that's not my concern. Sachar Committee report proves that > Muslims have got nothing thanks to 40 years of Congress rule (very little > actually, which in my mind is equivalent to nothing). Hence, it's not an > example of appeasement, but of Congress double speak regarding how they have > treated Muslims. > > Regards > > Rakesh > > From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 6 09:33:54 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 21:03:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan Message-ID: <532801.99584.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Murali,            I have had lot of discussion with Rakesh on minority appeasement.We both have failed to convince each other while still agreeing on views on several of the issues.I entirely agree with views expressed in your last para.While most instances narrated by Rakesh are state centred politics, strangely the major minority appeasement is from Central Govt. I have been thinking of reasons why it is so happening and have come to a plausible viewpoint. There are two major political parties-BJP and Congress.There are many people mainly from majority community committed to BJP ideology which the Congress is unable to woo and break.While there are others who strongly oppose this ideology and naturally drift to Congress.Congress is thus left with a choice either to woo a small floating left out majority community number or put its efforts on major chunk of minority community. The results are obvious with open wooing of minorities mainly Muslims. In so far as political parties are concerned this could still be acceptable.But when it comes to Governance, why should citizens be discriminated based on religion. The Governments should treat all equally except as provided in Constitution.This is not happening so as we see in our daily lives. In my opinion the BJP has certainly behaved better in this regard than the Congress as far as Central Governance is concerned. I know there would be people who would not brand this as secular but let all those put their hands on their hearts and tell who seems to be safer--a Muslim living in Hindu majority place or a Hindu living in a Muslim majority place.There are no saviours for Hindus while there are hundreds of saviours for Muslims. The results of discriminations is now resulting into Hindu fanaticsm which is equally dangerous as has been the other way round.When you look at numbers where are you going to equalize the percentages-Govt, Industry,Markets,Shops,Residences,Roads, Places of worship and so on and so forth.If the Govt wishes let them make ALL citizens more educated and more capable and then market forces will determine their course. Regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Wed, 8/5/09, Murali V wrote: > From: Murali V > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan > To: "Rakesh Iyer" > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 10:48 PM > Regarding Babri Masjid. > Here is a reference on ASI findings before it was abruptly > asked to abandon, > for fear of excavating the obvious. > "Findings of Ayodhya digging > > Summary of the main findings may be stated as follows: > There is 'archeological evidence of a massive structure' > below ground where > the Babri mosque was destroyed in 1992. > The structure bears distinctive features associated with > ancient temples of > northern India. > There is evidence of building work there from as far as the > 10th century. > > > The excavated area covered beneath the disputed land at > least 14,000 sq.ft > over which the report said, 'There is sufficient proof of > existence of a > massive and monumental structure having a minimum dimension > of 50x30 meters > in the north-south and east-west directions, respectively, > just below the > disputed structure.' The report said that excavation > clearly showed > distinctive features of a tenth century temple below the > ruins of the Babri > Mosque. It further mentions discovery of 50 pillar bases, > decorated bricks > bearing features of 10th century, deities of Hindu gods and > goddesses, lotus > motifs, and curved architectural pieces. " > Re: Godhra carnage. > UC Bannerjee commision initiated by the congress on the > Godhra Tran fire, > was manipulated to generate the report of electric Short > circuit. The reason > is to protect the Congress men who were involved. > "Was it secular to see chaurches destroyed" > We made the mistake of watching Temples destroyed. > Kandhamal > Our central ministry did not have the guts do anything to > the maoists even > after the acceptance, but instead made statments on the > aftermath of the > Sawami's killing. > On all of your questions, I have absolutely no > disagreement, if all act in a > truly secular manner. But the situation is otherwise. This > so called > secularism the brainchild of Nehru has been and will be > minority appeasement > and pseudo-secularism. > Regards, > V Murali > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 3:55 PM, Rakesh Iyer > wrote: > > > Dear Murali Ji > > > > I give you a reverse account of what you have said, > and ironically, this is > > exactly in the vein you have sent the mail to me. May > be this may make you > > understand what I wish to say actually. > > > > These are also facts you should know: > > > > 1) The Babri Masjid was said to have been constructed > on a spot which was > > said to be the birth place of Lord Ram. Without any > historical verification > > of the place, or of any temple having been constructed > on the spot, a call > > was given by the Sangh Parivar and a Yatra was > launched from Somnath to > > Ayodhya under the leadership of Lal Krishna Advani, to > ask for the Ram > > Mandir to be constructed. Wherever the movement went, > there were riots. > > Gujarat, Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh etc. And further > more, once he was > > arrested by Lalu govt. in Bihar, there were more > incidents of rioting, > > arson, looting and rape across India. > > > > The entire thing culminated in the second worst > communal set of incidents > > across the country, particularly in Mumbai, of > independent India, the first > > unarguably being the riots at the time of Partition. > What was worse was that > > in many of the cases, unlike say the Partition, the > incidents were planned, > > meticulously, and selectively Muslims and Hindus were > burnt and butchered > > with arsonists having even voting lists and having > marked homes of the > > 'enemy' communities. Was that secular? > > > > 2) The Shiv Sena gave a call based on an incident > which took place at > > Radhabai Chawl in Jogeshwari, which was the burning of > a few Hindus, to > > teach 'Muslims' a lesson to his party activists. The > Shiv Sena activists > > then went on a killing spree, to follow the dictum of > the party chief. The > > entire set of incidents is quoted properly in the > Srikrishna Commission > > report, constituted to investigate the various > incidents in 92-93 riots. The > > commission indicted Shiv Sena chief to have been a > major figure responsible > > for deterioration of law and order in the city and the > reason for crimes > > being committed. Till date, the Commission > investigation has not helped the > > victims to get justice. And Thackeray openly > challenged the police to arrest > > him. > > > > Is that secular? > > > > What's more, based on these incidents, Tiger Memon and > his boss Dawood > > Ibrahim decided to take 'revenge' for what happened to > 'their brothers and > > sisters' during these riots, by organizing 1993 > blasts, which resulted in > > death of many innocents. Is that secular? > > > > Then again, at least this case was investigated and > sentences were finally > > read out about 16 years later. What about the riots > though? Will they ever > > be investigated? If not now, say in the next 1,000 > years? > > > > 3) Then we come to 2002. The Gujarat govt first didn't > do anything > > worthwhile at all to stop Godhra. The Railway > Minister, Nitish Kumar, > > refused to order any inquiry into the incident at > Godhra which led to > > burning of 58 people at the station. What's more, the > incident was used to > > justify the carnage, rapes, mutilation, looting and > killing (a massacre and > > genocide in a sense) of Muslims to 'teach' them a > lesson. > > > > And the CM of Gujarat, Narendra Modi, led the example > by openly stating > > Newton's third law as the reason for the riots. What's > more, it took 72 > > hours for the Army to be deployed in Gujarat, when the > Army could have been > > called much earlier. Three days, the rioters had a > field day. The biggest > > irony is that when the Defence Minister George > Fernandes was in Gujarat to > > take a stock of the situation, there was news of his > vehicle being stoned as > > well! If the Defence Minister's vehicle is not safe, > what security was the > > Modi govt giving to people, may I know? > > > > Was that secular? > > > > What is more, those who organized these riots were > seen moving around with > > voter lists or municipal lists stating addresses of > people. Newspapers like > > Sandesh and Gujarat Samachar were giving exaggerating > reports daily one > > after another of one or the other temple being > destroyed, when there were > > none in the first place. Editorials were published on > a regular basis trying > > to justify the violence as the reaction to Godhra. > > > > Modi asked whether Manmohan was providing chicken > biryani to those > > terrorists who were hiding in Charar-e-Sharif in the > 1990's. Was Modi also > > enjoying dal-bati and Gujarati vegetarian cuisine > specially ordered from > > hotels while the murderers and looters had a field > day, with the police > > doing nothing at all, and sometimes even helping them > in a few places? Or > > was he also getting supply of some of these women to > enjoy himself? And what > > was his Health Minister doing being in the Control > Rooms to monitor the > > situation during riots? And if he couldn't control his > police, what is the > > use of his 56-ki-chaati? > > > > He doesn't even have the guts without security guards > around him. Where was > > his masculine virtues then, when women were dragged > out in front of their > > husbands and raped? > > > > Instead, Modi later went on a Gaurav Rath Yatra to > prove that Gujarat had > > not lost its honour by allowing all this. Was that > secular? > > > > Forget being secular, is that even justifiable? > > > > Were we dreaming when all this news came in? Some > Gujaratis then said that > > Muslims are lying. Is the death of more than 1,000 > people a lie? Are all > > these 'secularists' or those who state such things > 'liars'? And only Godhra > > is the truth? > > > > Tell me this. > > > > 4) Karnataka. The Sangh Parivar wanted to teach > Christians a lesson for > > 'proselytization'. Considering that it was their govt. > (the BJP govt) in > > Karnataka, couldnt' they have registered a police case > for conversions under > > 'fraud, force or allurement' against the respective > organizations? And what > > about protection of minorities? > > > > Was it secular to see churches destroyed? Has the BJP > decided to function > > in India under an alternative constitution to the one > of India, namely the > > Sangh Parivar Constitution? > > > > 5) Orissa. Kandhamal. The Swami was killed by the > Maoists who even accepted > > it, but the RSS and the hoodlums didn't have the balls > to touch the Maoists, > > othewise they wouldn't even have been seen in this > world later. Instead, > > they went on a killing spree to destroy Churches and > kill tribals who had > > been Christians. This way they brought about mass > exodus of people, gave a > > communal tinge to the election campaign (the accused > in Kandhamal riots was > > the BJP candidate for the Assembly) and also forced > many converted tribals > > to 'reconvert'. > > > > Do they even know themselves what it is to be a Hindu, > forget being > > secular? Do they know what Hinduism stands for? And > who gave them the right > > to decide whether the tribals are Hindus or not? > > > > 6) Every year, the BJP and its sister organizations > force people indoors on > > the Valentine's Day, in the name of protecting Indian > culture. Who made BJP > > the vanguard of the Indian culture? (or even the > sister organizations for > > that matter) Has the BJP patented the Indian culture > to have some IPR > > (intellectual property rights) over it? And do they > have the licence to > > decide Indian culture? > > > > If I also become a CM and allow criminals to do to BJP > activists what they > > have done to the rest of the nation, would that be > acceptable or not? I want > > an answer to this question as well. State yes or no > for this question. > > > > Is all this secular? Tell me that? > > > > I can put more questions here, as many as you would > want. And if you think > > the Congress is communal, I have no issues with that. > But I have a larger > > fundamental issue, and that is clear. Nobody has the > right to take law in > > their own hands. And nobody has a right to restrict > freedoms of others. > > > > And the BJP and the Sangh Parivar indulge in that, day > in and day out. It's > > much better to have a UPA govt. any day, which can be > criticized for so many > > scams and incidents and should be certainly punished > for them (at least they > > respond to public pressure and do bring some good acts > like the NREGA and > > may be the Right to Food will also come in), rather > than the NDA, whose > > philosophy was development only for the sake of > economic growth, and always > > minorities felt insecure (and of course, they had > their share of scams as > > well). Even today, there are more incidents of > communal violence on daily > > basis in states where BJP rules, compared to those > where they don't rule. > > > > Can anybody answer that? > > > > Anyways, your problem as I said is that it's only > religio-political matters > > which are important for you people. You always feel as > if you are the > > victim. Hindus are the victim according to you people. > You thrive on being > > victimized. And that's even strange when you yourself > haven't experienced > > anything which should make you feel like a victim. And > seriously, the only > > thing you are doing is to play politics with this > victimization, rather than > > understanding the context in which those statements > are made, or even trying > > to forget the past and move forward and do something > which can help the > > people. > > > > Congratulations to the Sangh Parivar for having played > politics with our > > minds and having decided us on this forum and > elsewhere as well. And for the > > Hindutva believers, please start being rational and > question your beliefs. > > Golwalkar must be having great time wherever he is. > > > > > > Regards > > > > Rakesh > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From dnyan21 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 6 10:09:43 2009 From: dnyan21 at yahoo.com (vaid theite) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 21:39:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Aasakta Theatre Festival, Bangalore (13-16 August) - Grab the tickets Message-ID: <593379.18380.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Aasakta Pune Date: Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 1:32 AM Subject: Aasakta Theatre Festival, Bangalore (13-16 August) - Grab the tickets To: dialogue at aasakta.com If you cannot see this email properly then click here LEGITIMATE HOOEY - English - 65 min Adapted by Sagar Deshmukh Directed by Mohit Takalkar Synopsis: The play reveals 15 nights in the life of a modern-day young urban couple Nilu and Anju. When Nilu and Anju manage to escape their annoying roommate Radha and get their own flat, the couple is overjoyed. Anju is a working woman and works for a leading boutique in the city whereas Nilu is a playwright without much success. This light veined play examines the age-old questions couples must face every day: Is it better to tell love stories to each other, or just watch TV? Should men be forced to go to for shopping? Should the fan be on even though it makes an annoying sound? Does love really exists or is it just a big reasonable nonsense? GARBO - Marathi- 105 mins Playwright - Mahesh Elkunchwar Director - Mohit Takalkar Synopsis: Garbo is about the class of ‘young people’ living aimlessly with frustration of shattered dreams, the diffusion of mediocrity, and the burden of inhibitions. A play about the generation which breaks out into defiance of living out their own lives with non-conformism for a credo; throwing up in the process a small minority culture, containing within itself its own seeds of destruction. The drama in Garbo grows out of a claustrophobic real-life situation pushed to the limits of endurance, burgeoning into a surreal holy dream that is too unreal and brittle to stand the test. TU - Marathi - 120 min including a 10 min interval Playwright - Satee Bhave Director - Mohit Takalkar Based on the verses of Sufi Saint Jelaluddin Rumi Synopsis: This is a story of The Man, The Woman, The King, The Fakir and The Storyteller.The story begins with the parting of the man and the woman, who are immensely in love with each other. Their intense love is smothering them, leading them to part in the quest for self. Both meet the fakir. She, during her journey through her mind and He in the outside world. They see pure love through Fakir’s mind. Each one seeks to complete each one’s story. The King falls in love with The Woman. They have all realized that they are far away from true love. They are all seeking the true experience of love with their entire being. Each one finds one’s true self by looking in The Fakir’s heart. Telling his story will liberate the storyteller. BEDKE NEECHE REHNEWALI - Hindi Children's play for 10 yrs & above - 85 mins Adapted by- Sagar Deshmukh & Jitendra Joshi Directed by- Mohit Takalkar Synopsis: As a child, Ira had an invisible friend named Manu, who lived under her bed. At night Ira and Manu shared secrets, made promises, and confided in each other. Then one day Ira grew up and stopped believing in her invisible friend. This children's play opens with Manu crawling out from beneath Ira's bed. Manu wants to know; after all they have been through together, why Ira stopped believing in her. Anyone who has ever had an invisible friend as a child is sure to enjoy this whimsical one act comedy for young people. Performed at: National School of Drama’s Bharat Rang Mahotsav, 2007 & 2009(New Delhi) Bikalpa Theatre Festival, 2008 (New Delhi) Mahindra Excellence in Theatre Awards, 2008 & 2009 (New Delhi) Best play at ZEE GAURAV PURASKAR, 2008 Prithvi Theatre Festival. 2009 Best play at the State Drama Competition, 2007 Cairo International Festival for Experimental Theatre, 2008 PLEASE HELP US REACH OUT TO THEATRE ENTHUSIASTS THROUGH YOUR DATABASE BY FORWARDING THIS MAIL THANK YOU -- Aasakta M-7/336, Snigdha Soc; Parvati, Pune-411009 INDIA www.aasakta.com   email: dialogue at aasakta.com Contact: +91 9922935591 From rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 10:17:12 2009 From: rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com (Rajkamal Goswami) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 10:17:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fake Encounters Message-ID: <9d0d777b0908052147w44785801h535b71626efb8615@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, How long can we bear the burnt of the security men killing youth like this? And such incidents are becoming more common both across time and space. Just read the story in the link or as pasted below. http://tehelka.com/story_main42.asp?filename=Ne080809murder_in.asp Home | Current Affairs | Opinion | Business | Engaged Circle | Culture & Society | | Web Specials | Interact | Archives Thursday, 6 August 2009Advertise With Us | | *TEHELKA INITIATIVES:* Critical Futures | Tehelka Foundation *From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 31, Dated August 08, 2009**CURRENT AFFAIRS* *fake encounter* *Murder In Plain Sight* *In Manipur, death comes easy. In this damning sequence of photos, a local photographer captures the death of a young man, killed in a false encounter by the police in broad daylight, 500 metres from the state assembly. How can a State justify such a war against its own people, asks **TERESA REHMAN* *1. Chongkham Sanjit, 27, is seen standing in a PCO with the Manipur Police Commandos adjacent to a pharmacy (marked by an arrow) in Imphal on July 23**2. Though surrounded by commandos, there is no obvious resistance from Sanjit (marked by a red circle))**3. Sanjit is seen calmly walking away with the heavily armed commandos**4. While a commando reaches for his pistol, Sanjit remains visibly calm. They are standing barely 500 metres from the state assembly**5. Sanjit, known to be a former member of the People’s Liberation Army, had retired on health grounds. Though surrounded, he is calm and there seems to be no urgency or imminent violence in the picture**6. In a sudden turn of events, Sanjit is hustled away roughly by the commandos**7. Sanjit is dragged by the commandos into the pharmacy. He has been surrounded by commandos for several minutes and is obviously unarmed**8. A few minutes later, commandos drag Sanjit’s dead body out of the pharmacy**9. Sanjit’s body is thrown into a truck. At no point while the camera was clicking had he offered any resistance to the commandos**10. Sanjit’s dead body on the truck. The camera continues to click. The commandos make no attempt to stop the public gaze**11. The body of Rabina Devi, a pregnant bystander. She was killed a few metres away in the police firing when they chased a fleeing youth**12. Sanjit’s body on a stretcher.His family claims he had broken his earlier links with the militants and was leading a normal life* *View slideshow *** If any picture can speak a thousand words, these photos — available exclusively to TEHELKA — could fill volumes. They capture a shootout that happened in the heart of Imphal, Manipur’s capital, barely 500 metres from the state assembly, on July 23. They show the moments before, during and after the ‘encounter killing’ of a 27-year-old Indian citizen – a young man called Chongkham Sanjit, shot dead by a heavily-armed detachment from Manipur’s Rapid Action Police Force, commonly known as the Manipur Police Commandos (MPC). There is a grotesque and brutal history to the bullets that killed this young man. For years, decades even, security forces in Manipur have faced allegations of human rights violations and extrajudicial murders committed under cover of the draconian Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA). In 2000, Irom Sharmila, stirred by the gunning down of 10 civilians, including an 18-year-old National Child Bravery Award winner, by the Assam Rifles, started a hunger fast — that lasts to this day — in protest against the AFSPA. In July 2004, the nation was rocked by the protests of a group of Manipuri women who marched to an Assam Rifles base in Imphal, stripped naked and raised a searing banner: “Indian Army Rape Us”. They were protesting the rape, torture and murder, a fortnight earlier, of Thangjam Manorama, 32, who was picked up from her home at night by the Assam Rifles. Manipur rose up in protest that day, and in August 2004, the Centre relented, withdrawing the AFSPA from Imphal’s municipal zone. ‘Post-Manorama,’ as history is marked in Manipur, the army has taken a backseat, withdrawing outside the municipality. However, life in Manipur is still lived on the tightrope. In a seemingly new counter-insurgency strategy, the MPC has unleashed a reign of terror in the state. *PAST INCIDENTS* *NOVEMBER, 2008: SALAM AJIT SINGH* Singh, 30, was allegedly killed by the Imphal West Police Commandos and 39 Assam Rifles on November 7, 2008. Singh ran a taxi service. In January 2009 his family filed a petition with the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) *DECEMBER, 2008: MD TASLIUMUDDIN* Tasliumuddin, 20, a daily wage labourer, was allegedly killed in an ‘encounter’ by the Imphal West Police Commandos and 32 Assam Rifles on December 30, 2008. The NHRC has registered a case *DECEMBER 2008: OKRAM RANJIT SINGH *Singh, 27, a brick mason was allegedly killed in an ‘encounter’ by the Imphal West Police Commandos and 12 Maratha Light Infantry on December 22, 2008 in Imphal West district. The family has filed a petition with the NHRC *JANUARY 2009: LAISHRAM DIPSON* Dipson, 28, was allegedly killed by the Imphal West Police Commandos and 39 Assam Rifles on January 12, 2009 at Laingam Khul. The lorry driver’s family has filed a police complaint *JANUARY 2009: NINGTHOUJAM ANAND* The 30-year-old auto rickshaw driver was allegedly killed by the Imphal West Police Commandos and 16 Assam Rifles on January 21, 2009. A complaint has been filed with the NHRC The organisation known as the Manipur Police Commandos (MPC) was first set up in 1979 as the Quick Striking Force (QSF). Former Inspector General of Police, Thangjam Karunamaya Singh told TEHELKA, “They were trained for special operations. But the men had strict instructions. They were told to fire only when fired upon and pay special attention to the needs of women, children and the elderly. If they arrested somebody on suspicion, they had to take responsibility for their security,” stated Singh. The MPC does not fall under the AFSPA but has now become notorious across the state. It operates only in the four districts of Manipur – Imphal East, Imphal West, Thoubal and Bishnupur. The MPC is housed in isolated commando barracks and has minimal contact with the general population, though its personnel are all locals. Extra-judicial killings, and, in particular, fake encounters by the MPC have become common in Manipur. In 2008, there were 27 recorded cases of torture and killing attributed to the MPC. Where once they conducted ‘encounters’ in isolated places, they now do not think twice before operating in cities, in broad daylight, as they did on July 23. In several incidents, innocent civilians carrying money and valuables have been robbed and sometimes killed. In some cases official action has been taken against commandos for misconduct. For instance, in July 2009, five police commandos who had reportedly robbed three youths were suspended. But for the most part, their extra-judicial activity goes scot free. According to the official version of Sanjit’s encounter death at 10:30am on July 23, a team of MPC personnel was conducting frisking operations in Imphal’s Khwairamband Keithel market. They saw a suspicious youth coming from the direction of the Uripok locality. When asked to stop, the version goes, the youth suddenly pulled out a gun and ran away, firing at the public in a bid to evade the police. The official record states that the youth was finally cornered inside Maimu Pharmacy near Gambhir Singh Shopping Arcade. He was asked to surrender. Instead, he fired at the police. The police retaliated and the youth was killed. The account states that a 9mm Mauser pistol was “recovered”. The youth was identified from his driver’s license as Chongkham Sanjit, son of Chongkham Khelson of Kongpal Sajor Leikai, Manipur. Usually, such official versions of encounters are difficult to disprove though everyone may know them to be false. But in an almost unprecedented coincidence, in Sanjit’s case, a local photographer rushed to the scene and managed to shoot a minute-by-minute account of the alleged ‘encounter’. The photographs (shown in preceding pages) clearly reveal that, contrary to the official version, Sanjit was, in fact, standing calmly as the police commandos frisked him and spoke to him. He was escorted inside the storeroom of the pharmacy. He was shot point blank inside and his dead body was brought out. The photographer, fearing for his safety, does not dare publish these pictures in Manipur. The photographs clearly reveal that contrary to the official version, Sanjit was standing calmly as the MPC commandos frisked him Eyewitness accounts partly corroborate the police version — except their account is obviously about a young man other than Sanjit. These witnesses state that a youth did escape from a police frisking party about a hundred metres away from where Sanjit was killed. The police chased this youth and opened fire, killing an innocent bystander, Rabina Devi — who was pregnant at the time — and injuring five other civilians. Afterwards, the police showed the media a 9mm Mauser pistol which they alleged was thrown away by the militant before he fled. After about half an hour, the police claimed to have killed the youth who escaped from their hands “in an encounter”; according to them, this youth was Sanjit. The photographs clearly indicate otherwise. The police claim Sanjit was a member of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA), a proscribed insurgent outfit. Chief Minster Okram Ibobi Singh also made a controversial statement in the assembly that day, asserting that there was no other alternative but to kill insurgents. Sanjit was indeed a former PLA cadre. He was arrested in 2000 but freed. In 2006, he retired from the outfit on health grounds. In 2007, though, he was detained again under the NSA and was only released a year later. Since then, he had been staying with his family at his home at Khurai Kongpal Sajor Leikai and had been working as an attendant in a private hospital. But even if Sanjit was a former militant, he should not have have been killed in a false encounter. The photos show him talking to his killers, calmly, without offering any resistance. He was frisked moments before the shootout. He was not an insurgent on the run. In fact, Sanjit had to make periodic appearances before the Court, a requirement that the Court later lifted. “Legally speaking, Sanjit was a free man,” says M Rakesh, a lawyer at the Gauhati High Court’s Imphal Bench. There are also significant inconsistencies in the police versions of the recovery of the weapon. First, they said it was flung away by the fleeing militant. Then they said it was recovered from Sanjit after the encounter. As the photos show, Sanjit was ushered into the pharmacy, not chased in. Also, if Sanjit was, in fact, armed with the 9mm Mauser, why wasn’t it found during the frisking? Why, as the photos show, was he taken inside the storeroom? First the police said the pistol was flung away by the fleeing militant. Then they said it was recovered from Sanjit after the encounter The law says if a death is caused by state forces in an encounter which cannot be justified by Section 46 of the Criminal Procedure Code, the officer causing the death would be guilty of culpable homicide. In this case, only a rigorous investigation can establish what exactly transpired. Instead of instituting a judicial enquiry, however, the state government is setting up a departmental enquiry, which is unlikely to yield any justice to the victims’ families. Sanjit’s family claims he had broken his earlier links with the militants and was leading a normal life. They say he had gone out that day to buy medicines for his uncle, who is undergoing treatment at Imphal’s JN Hospital. Says Sanjit’s mother, Inaotombi Devi, “Life is very cheap in Manipur.” Manipur is routinely roiled by such devastating narratives. Ex-MLA 78-yearold Sarat Singh Loitongbam’s son Satish Singh was killed by the armed forces. Though a devout Hindu, he refuses to perform his son’s last rites until his name is cleared of wrongdoing. Like Satish, there is Ningombam Gopal Singh, a 39- year-old Grade-IV employee at the Imphal Bench of the Gauhati High Court, a man who was chatting over tea with women at a hotel when he was dragged off by men in plainclothes, to be shot dead in an ‘encounter’. There is 24-year-old Elangbam Johnson Singh, a student and part-time salesman, picked up by the MPC while out with a friend and killed in an encounter, his corpse at the morgue bearing signs of torture. Stories like these are a grotesque lattice in Manipur. “Life in Manipur,” as one observer puts it, “is like a lottery. You are alive because you are lucky.” *WRITER’S EMAIL* teresa at tehelka.com *From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 31, Dated August 08, 2009* Print this story FeedbackAdd to favoritesEmail this story UP Congress head arrested By A Special CorrespondentRead>> HS Sabharwal case takes darker turn By Divya Gupta Section 377 Amended In Favour Of Gay Sex By Sabika Muzaffar Ganguly honoured by Lancashire University By Tara MenonMore Stories>> -- Rajkamal Goswami PhD Student in Conservation Science Ashoka Trust for Research in Ecology and the Environment (ATREE) Royal Enclave, Sri Ramapura, Jakkur P.O. Bangalore 560 064 Karnataka, India. Phone: 080-23635555, extn: 145 Mobile: 09740362460 Fax: 91 80 2353 0070 Web: www.atree.org From cubbykabi at yahoo.com Thu Aug 6 11:04:53 2009 From: cubbykabi at yahoo.com (kabi cubby sherman) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 11:04:53 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Fwd: Join us at the Queer Azaadi March 16 August 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <617431.70241.qm@web94701.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Do join us at this year's ANNUAL celebratory march of LGBTQueer people, following also the verdict in the 377 case at the QueerAzadi March MUMBAI August Kranti Maidan 16th August 2009 Sunday Do join us in support — as friends, colleagues; NGOs, women's groups, human rights organizations, and trade unionists; family members, educational institutions and students, or as anyone supporting citizenship rights of all people. We invite you to join us on our march as well and to raise your voice along with ours. We will gather at August Kranti Maidan (close to Grant Road station) 3:00 pm onwards. *********** ********* ********* ********* ***** ************ ********* ********* ********* **** ************ ********* ********* ********* **** ************ ********* ********* ********* **** ************ ********* ********* ********* **** ************ ********* ********* ********* **** See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ From khurramparvez at yahoo.com Thu Aug 6 11:23:36 2009 From: khurramparvez at yahoo.com (Khurram Parvez) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 22:53:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change By Richard Shapiro Message-ID: <118672.22540.qm@web31801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change By Richard Shapiro August 04, 2009 http://www.sacw.net/article1090.html What are the various roles that diverse constituencies must play to facilitate political processes that undo militarization and subjugation in Indian administered Kashmir? How can systemic structures that institutionalize violence, cultural annihilation, economic impoverishment, and political disempowerment be countered through non-violent, ethical resistance? What alliances are necessary to allow hope for overcoming cycles of oppression and breaking with histories of domination? How can international, national, and local actors and institutions work together to disrupt socially unnecessary suffering and ameliorate the conditions of existence? What forces must cohere to enable a just peace to emerge in a democratic Kashmir in the foreseeable future? Numerous obstacles present tremendous challenges to movements for social justice. The current world order is predicated on systems of inequality that hierarchically divide countries, peoples, cultures, classes, genders, sexualities, ethnicities, and faith traditions to the benefit of the few and the detriment of the many. Dominant powers prescribe the rules of the game to their advantage and utilize knowledge, technology, and markets to structure social relations in their interests. The new global order presents itself as the best of all possible worlds in which sovereign nation-states organized through representative democracy, rule of law, free markets with government regulation, Enlightenment rationality, and human rights are promised as the solution to the problems of poverty, war, ecological devastation, genocide, and terrorism. This dominant narrative of progress through the spread of capitalism organized in nation-states and guided by knowledge has attained hegemony as it has captured the imagination of postcolonial nations like India. Postcolonial nations have largely reproduced the structures of colonial oppression and organized themselves to become players in the existing global order as militarized, hyper-masculinized, nuclear powers measuring their worth on the basis of GDP (Gross Domestic Product). Emerging middle-classes of massive proportion in postcolonial nations like India buttress this process of nation building that mirrors and enforces dynamics of globalization through the production of unparalleled poverty, massive and multiple dislocations, genocide of indigenous peoples, ecological disaster, and abundant psychological malaise. India is embraced by the international community, meaning largely the United States and Western Europe, precisely because it marches in step with the new world order. India amasses great cultural capital as “the world's largest democracy” in spite of the fact that it is home to 40% of the worlds most economically destitute, and seeks to constitute itself as a nation through policies that disregard the needs of the vast majority of its population. India is inventing nothing new in its self-constitution as a powerful nation-state. National identity is being fabricated through the equation of India with Hindus, in blatant form in entities like the RSS and BJP, and in more subtle form in the Congress and progressive Indian citizens for whom nationalism linked to 'Hindu cultural reassertion' is an unreflective response to a colonial past. The equation of Hinduism (unity in diversity) and Christianity with tolerance for difference, and Islam with terrorism, backwardness, and fanaticism, functions as a global trope supportive of unleashing disproportionate violence on Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Palestine, as well as within the territory of India in Gujurat, Orissa, and in the 'disputed territory' of Kashmir. India forms itself as nation with unexamined Hindu majoritarianism at its base, just as unexamined Christian cultural dominance organizes the United States, rendering explorations of the links between religionization, nationalism and particular secularisms close to impossible. India is also typical in its self-formation as nation in fashioning internal and external enemies as crucial to defining itself, and super-exploiting its most proximate 'others' to fuel its prosperity. European nations had the Jew as internal enemy. The United States is founded on the backs of its twin others - enslaved Africans and massacred Native Americans. India has as its main 'internal other' the Muslim, who can take no solace in also occupying the role as external enemy in India's dominant narrative. This double site is what the state uses to legitimate the brutalization of the Kashmiri people. Firstly, there is India's need for a majority Muslim state within its borders to legitimate itself as a progressive, pluralistic, secular nation. Without a Muslim majority state within India, India cannot as easily legitimate itself as a progressive member of the new global order. Secondly there is India's need to establish national identities that take precedence over regional, local, traditional identities. As a nation, India is in the process of seeking: (1) to establish territorial dominion over the current boundaries of the nation, (2) attain a monopoly on the means of violence, and (3) organize human and natural resources to enhance the productivity and power of the nation. Every nation that has achieved the normative status of modern democracy has utilized sustained and prolific violence to realize these three imperatives and in the process establish its identity. India is in a very vulnerable moment in this process as is evident from an examination of the myriad territories and forces fighting for autonomy in some form from the Indian state. Part of the strategy to foster national identity, simultaneous to providing very little to the vast majority of its population, and in fact fostering mal-development that impoverishes and displaces poor, rural 'citizens', is to fabricate an 'us' that must protect itself from 'them'. Without internal enemies India cannot unify itself as a nation. This internal enemy is also resolutely claimed as integral to India. The state and its loyal subjects repeat the same refrain: 'Kashmir is an integral part of India.' 'Kashmir is integral to India.' Kashmir is the other that is integral to the self, a difference that is integral to the identity of India. How then does India treat this other, this integral difference? To debase, devalue, disrespect, destroy the people, culture, history, land, waters, aspirations, imaginations, passions, thoughts, of this other that is claimed as integral to self reveals much about India's current state of existence. What other measure is available to us to assess ourselves as ethical entities than how we treat the other, how we engage the differences to which we are ethically obliged to respond? What nation has satisfactorily answered to this call? If a day arrives when Kashmir is 'a nation unto itself', independent and sovereign, an equal to all other nations, will Kashmir point the nation-state in a new direction? Will the differences integral to Kashmir be respected, affirmed, heard and engaged? Will 'the other' be the call to 'the self' to practice hospitality? Will the Gujur, the village woman who buried loved ones and waits in silence for words of/from other loved ones, the atheist, the ardent believer, the Shia, the Sufi, the pundit, the Buddhist, the differently abled, the homosexual, the beggar, the prostitute, be welcomed as participants in constructing a nation that will be 'a light unto other nations'? Will the other be welcomed without the demand or structural incentive to assimilate, to mirror/mimic dominance to be recognized as human? These questions are too much, perhaps even unfair. Yet, is it not necessary to raise them? Kashmir occupies a literal and imaginary border as inside and outside of India in ways that structure an impossible predicament. The state (and its elites and middle-classes) does not trust Kashmiris whose allegiance is always presumed to lie with Pakistan as an Islamic Republic, thus denying Kashmiris the rights of citizens of India, while asserting the inviolability of its sovereignty over Kashmir as a secular, democratic nation governed by equality under rule of law. The distrust legitimates military rule organized through special laws as necessary to provide law and order as a matter of internal security. Thus, on the basis of being part of a democratic state, the rights granted citizens of such a state are denied to Kashmiris. Inclusion in nation is coupled with dispossession from historical memory, rights, and life. India legitimates its mistreatment through a logic originating with European nation-states. This denial of civil and human rights, rule of law, and the freedoms of citizenship to Kashmiris is because the state must protect itself from forces within itself that threaten its character as a lawful, democratic nation. India must violate what is most inviolable, through a state of exception (the use of law to suspend law as definitive of sovereignty), to protect itself. The discourse requires the allegiance of the Kashmiri people to India, as proof that Kashmiris are not what the nation suspects - traitors and terrorists, as precondition to access to the rights of citizenship. These same rights of citizenship provided by the nation, while denied to Kashmiris, are used by India to justify its claims to being a legitimate state entitled to act as it does in Kashmir. As a legitimate state, India is predicated on civil rights and rule of law that it may legitimately suspend in the name of national security. Kashmiris must align with India given this legitimacy, while living as subjects without rights in so far as the state defines them as a threat to its sovereignty. India must violate what gives it legitimacy in order to protect itself from the internal enemy integral to it. India must destroy itself to protect itself. The state of exception produces a state of autoimmunity. India is also asserting itself as superior to other regional nation-states, and an emerging player in relation to Western Europe and the United States. Like other powerful democracies, India is entitled to do whatever is necessary to fight terrorism and strengthen itself as a powerful, sovereign, capitalist nation, aligned with the movement of progress (dominance). Kashmiris are placed in a situation where allegiance to India as prerequisite to participation in a lawful democracy involves allegiance to a state that has no rational basis to demand or expect allegiance from the people of Kashmir. India needs to exaggerate the degree of cross-border infiltration and armed Islamist militancy to rationalize 500,000+ troops, blurred boundaries between police and army, and massive intervention in daily life through systematic surveillance, land seizures, checkpoints, torture, disappearances, gendered and sexualized violence, fake encounter deaths and countless daily humiliations calculated to break the spirit of the Kashmiri people. This reality is currently resisted through mass demonstrations, regular protests, strategic use of elections, strategic boycott of elections, navigating restrictions on 'free press', civil society mobilizations, legal cases, an International Tribunal, and regular acts of dignity, courage, and faith that characterize the present in Kashmir. India demonstrates the persona all too common in the 'league of nations' - to act with impunity and disregard for international law and local demands for justice. India uses this fiction of the Kashmiri as existing in the shadowy space of inside/outside the nation to legitimate an occupation that ignores the historical particularity of Kashmir and the promises made to the people of Kashmir to determine its own future. The plight of Kashmiri pundits also becomes an opportunity for the state to legitimate regularized violence and systematic oppression of Kashmiris. Were all Kashmiris, whether currently residing in the state of Jammu/Kashmir or elsewhere, to be given voice to express their will, free from coercion, retribution, and manipulation, the outcome would not be in doubt. Kashmir is the longest standing disputed area in the United Nations, the most militarized spot on earth, and a drain on the hopes for prosperity, peace and freedom for people throughout the subcontinent, and the world. There is no moving toward peaceful coexistence between India and Pakistan, no stabilization of the region, no possibility for global nuclear disarmament, no hope for forms of development that prioritize sustainability and cultural survival over militarization, urbanization, and middle-class consumerism, no space for the impossible healing through mourning/memorializing the trauma of Partition, without granting self-determination to the people of Kashmir. The realization of that which is demanded by rationality in service of justice and emancipation is always against the odds. In relation to Kashmir, a more peaceful future requires at least four interrelated movements: (1) Massive, non-violent, ethical dissent within Kashmiri civil society must continue and expand, attentive to alliances that build stronger relations between men and women, youth and adults, various faith communities, urban and rural, rich and poor, facilitative of inclusive forms of polity that enable a diverse, pluralistic movement for freedom. (2) Leadership must form a unified coalition that activates and learns from the multiple constituencies that make up Kashmiri society. Divergent desires and imaginations regarding the future of Kashmir should be encouraged and discussed, outside the search for homogeneity or conformity. A Kashmir free of subjugation should enable multiple forms of life through participatory democracy, just governance, and economic practice promoting health, education, and individual and collective prosperity. Natural resources, like water, should be both safeguarded, and utilized for sustainable development. Cultural heritage should be understood as an inheritance of all Kashmiris to fashion a unique society nurturing hospitality, innovation, and multicultural polity. (3) Education and mobilization to shift public opinion in India must be undertaken throughout civil society to expand pressure on the Indian state. Citizen delegations from the various states and communities of India must visit Kashmir to learn first hand about the atrocities, resistances, hopes, and concerns prevalent in Kashmir. Such delegations must bring their new understandings to their neighborhoods, schools, workplaces, and places of worship to facilitate discussion and reflection that expand the voices of those who demand that illegal and immoral action in Kashmir done in their name immediately cease. Institutions in India must sponsor delegations from Kashmir, composed of diverse peoples who constitute Kashmiri society, to share the realities they have suffered and the need for alliance toward justice. Hindu faith communities must forge relationships with social justice movements in civil society in Kashmir to oppose Hindu majoritarian dominance and insist that the Indian state demilitarize the state of Jammu & Kashmir, become accountable to international agreements, rule of law, and human rights as the first step on the road to affirming the right of Kashmir to self-determination. Universities and the press must play a strong role in addressing the history and present of Kashmir to empower students and the citizenry of India to participate as informed members of a democratic republic, whose resources and conscience are systematically misused and violated by their government. (4) International solidarities from citizens, governmental and non-governmental organizations, students, workers, professionals, public intellectuals, faith communities, and all interested parties must be organized to educate, inform, advocate, and mobilize for the liberation of Kashmir. International institutions must be both utilized and strengthened as legitimate sites able to hold nation-states legally accountable for their actions. Research, education, and publication on the reality of present-day Kashmir and its modern history must be supported by and within universities, think tanks, and civil society forums. Campuses must become sites where students mobilize themselves to exert public pressure to ethically resolve the situation in Kashmir. Resistance in all four 'sites' must struggle to establish alliances, clarify goals, mobilize resources, deconstruct desires, and carve out space where different forms of polity and community, promoting ethical dissent, may live. To commit to these practices secures no guarantees. The process must draw from the resolve of Kashmiris to struggle for justice and strengthen this resolve through principled alliance that breaks the isolation and despair that accompanies any people subjected to brutal mistreatment. The multiple legacies that inspire and haunt us must become the very sustenance that, through sharing, nurtures our struggle. Allow me to conclude by drawing from a source common to the three Abrahamic traditions, and of universal relevance in the present, Deuteronomy 16:20, Justice, Justice, You Shall Pursue. Richard Shapiro is Chair and Associate Professor, Department of Social and Cultural Anthropology, California Institute of Integral Studies in San Francisco. From kaksanjay at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 13:00:11 2009 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:00:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Smart Cards in J&K Message-ID: <5c5369880908060030k7b3dbfe1wf0d5c6bf303f5e94@mail.gmail.com> In the hope that I have beaten Taha to this one... Best Sanjay Kak http://www.risingkashmir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15587&Itemid=1 For PRC, verification, DOB, address proof and voter identity Govt will introduce all-purpose Smart Cards Abid Bashir Srinagar, Aug 05: Jammu and Kashmir is all set to go hi-tech with Chief Minister Omar Abdullah going to introduce multipurpose (biometric) Smart Cards which would act as the person’s Permanent Resident Certificate, photo identity card, voter card and if all goes well, a permit to cross over the Line of Control too. According to government officials, the system is being introduced to streamline the administration and to provide relief to a common man to get his work done without much hassles. The chief minister chaired a meeting in this regard on June 3 and is scheduled to chair another meeting on the issue in the next few days. An official letter dated 3 June 2009 suggests that Ankur Malhotra, an expert on Smart Cards, who is associated with a multinational consultancy, Price Water House Coopers made a full fledged presentation before the Chief Minister about Smart Cards. Top officials that include chief secretary S S Kapur, Divisional Commissioners of Kashmir and Jammu regions and Technical Director had also participated in the meeting. Secretary Revenue, Sheikh Ejaiz Iqbal, who was present in the meeting, told Rising Kashmir, Malhotra was invited by the IT department to brief Chief Minister about the various dimensions of Smart Cards that can be introduced in JK. “There will be another meeting in this regard very soon,” Iqbal said. Sources close to the chief minister revealed that Omar was keen to introduce Smart Cards in J&K to provide relief to a common man. “He has been pursuing this issue over the past three months. But the project got delayed due to his preoccupations,” they said. “Omar sahib is scheduled to chair the meeting in this regard soon after the end of the budget session.” The IT consultants working on the project said the chief minister was keen in introducing Smart Cards here but it has to been seen which technology the government would like to introduce. “Under biometric technology, Smart Card can serve many purposes. It can serve as residential proof, voter card and photo identity card. There needs to be a full fledged central database of the card holders,” they explained. “If the State government accepts biometric technology, finger print of a person is sufficient to identify him or her.” The government officials said since Smart Cards can serve as residential proofs too, it can be considered as the permit for traveling across the LoC. “LoC travel will become easier,” they said. “Besides, the overall administrative system will get streamlined.” However, the IT consultants working on this ambitious project said the project largely depends on New Delhi’s cooperation. “We’ve to keep the security angle in view as the State is sensitive in certain terms. It depends on how much technology New Delhi allows the State government to use,” they said. “The chief minister will obviously have to discuss the security angle of Smart Cards with New Delhi.” A senior government official said a meeting of Chief Secretaries of all States would be probably held at Srinagar in September where a consensus would be evolved about introducing Smart Cards. “Before heading for New Delhi, the chief minister will once again hear the Smart Card expert,” he said. The IT officials dealing with the project said the cards will have 27-digit unique identity numbers and personal information of the individual and finger biometrics of the person with a photograph. From c.anupam at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 13:08:48 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:08:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan In-Reply-To: <532801.99584.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <532801.99584.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <341380d00908060038y748b4ae6l8849209ef821b0c5@mail.gmail.com> Dear Malik, Your assessment of Indian political parties is incorrect sir. You argue: "There are two major political parties-BJP and Congress.There are many people mainly from majority community committed to BJP ideology which the Congress is unable to woo and break.While there are others who strongly oppose this ideology and naturally drift to Congress.Congress is thus left with a choice either to woo a small floating left out majority community number or put its efforts on major chunk of minority community. The results are obvious with open wooing of minorities mainly Muslims." First, if the people from majority community are committed to BJP ideology, then they should have come to power in the last parliamentary elections. Use of the adverb "*mainly*" doesnt really reflect in the results that the last elections had shown (mind you the case of CVMs are still under investigation, which i know you would cite as an counter argument). If by "mainly" you mean you and few others who subscribe to the saffron agenda in this forum, then I beg your pardon sir. The next part of the sentence that ends with "*woo and break*". So what was Prime Minister L.K. Advani doing in Karbi Anglong, there were no majority community present in the area. Dimasas and Khasis have their own tribal beliefs. What made him go there? Was he tryingto woo Black Widow commander Jewel Garlossa like how Congress and ASDC local leaders have done? Dear Malik, wooing and breaking is a part of the political mandate of all political parties. Kucch naya boliye. Its a cliche. I wanted to pontificate over this phrase, "woo and break" but i guess this should be enough for you at the moment. The next part of your argument is even more bizarre. However, I remember being exposed to these arguments since my days in Assam, when a middle class Hindu Assamese would question the supposed illegal immigration to his state, while employing almost five persons of Bangladeshi origin to finish their household chores. The argument went like this: "Since congress is not popular among masses anymore, therefore it is getting the migrants from across the borders to vote for them." A close examination however reveals that this is the argument of the Asom Gana Parishad combine feeding utter rot to its own masses. The same AGP government, supposedly a faction of the militant Assamese leaders, miserably failed to contain the menace of the extortions and threats by its breakway on its own people. Wooing muslims, hindus, tribals, journalists, sportsmen, zoo keepers is something done by all political parties. This one's from the heart of your pet hero, Mr Modi. Mr Modi did try something different in Junagadh and trust me he's not goodat it. Or may be it wasnt his fault at all, local majority community ditchedhim. I hope if I digress you wont mind Malik. An interesting anecdote from Junagadh Assembly polls, which bigwigs of BJP deny. The masculine nature of BJP sometimes makes it a little bit males who are in a denial mode after doing something terrible like cheating wife :) In Junagadh, before the polls, BJP circulated a booklet (with a green layout). Besides talking about the links with Oman and a few middle eastern countries (predominantly Islamic), the book had pictures of Narendra Modi dressed for an Iftaar party. When Parshottam Rupala was asked about this, he prompty said it was the work of BJP minority wing in Junagadh. So I think here my friend Malik, you must see for yourself. You either have a very skewed, parochial sort of an idea about national politics, of its sectarian nature (which actually is not the case) or something is keeping you away from the real picture. The majority (across various sections of the society comprising of people who were just) supported BJP at one point of time because in its mandate were things like fighting against corruption, encouraging young leaders (you could even say poetry of Atal Behari Vajpeyee). It wasnt popular because of the Babri Masjid demolitions or because it catered to the majority of hindus. Political parties have mandates for everything, every place, every drawing room. I hope you will understand it someday rather than asking people to place their hands in their hearts. good day anupam On 8/6/09, A.K. Malik wrote: > > Hi Murali, > I have had lot of discussion with Rakesh on minority > appeasement.We both have failed to convince each other while still agreeing > on views on several of the issues.I entirely agree with views expressed in > your last para.While most instances narrated by Rakesh are state centred > politics, strangely the major minority appeasement is from Central Govt. I > have been thinking of reasons why it is so happening and have come to a > plausible viewpoint. > There are two major political parties-BJP and Congress.There are > many people mainly from majority community committed to BJP ideology which > the Congress is unable to woo and break.While there are others who strongly > oppose this ideology and naturally drift to Congress.Congress is thus left > with a choice either to woo a small floating left out majority community > number or put its efforts on major chunk of minority community. The results > are obvious with open wooing of minorities mainly Muslims. In so far as > political parties are concerned this could still be acceptable.But when it > comes to Governance, why should citizens be discriminated based on religion. > The Governments should treat all equally except as provided in > Constitution.This is not happening so as we see in our daily lives. > In my opinion the BJP has certainly behaved better in this regard than the > Congress as far as Central Governance is concerned. > I know there would be people who would not brand this as secular but let > all those put their hands on their hearts and tell who seems to be safer--a > Muslim living in Hindu majority place or a Hindu living in a Muslim majority > place.There are no saviours for Hindus while there are hundreds of saviours > for Muslims. The results of discriminations is now resulting into Hindu > fanaticsm which is equally dangerous as has been the other way round.When > you look at numbers where are you going to equalize the percentages-Govt, > Industry,Markets,Shops,Residences,Roads, Places of worship and so on and so > forth.If the Govt wishes let them make ALL citizens more educated and more > capable and then market forces will determine their course. > Regards, > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > --- On Wed, 8/5/09, Murali V wrote: > > > From: Murali V > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan > > To: "Rakesh Iyer" > > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > > Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 10:48 PM > > Regarding Babri Masjid. > > Here is a reference on ASI findings before it was abruptly > > asked to abandon, > > for fear of excavating the obvious. > > "Findings of Ayodhya digging > > > > Summary of the main findings may be stated as follows: > > There is 'archeological evidence of a massive structure' > > below ground where > > the Babri mosque was destroyed in 1992. > > The structure bears distinctive features associated with > > ancient temples of > > northern India. > > There is evidence of building work there from as far as the > > 10th century. > > > > > > The excavated area covered beneath the disputed land at > > least 14,000 sq.ft > > over which the report said, 'There is sufficient proof of > > existence of a > > massive and monumental structure having a minimum dimension > > of 50x30 meters > > in the north-south and east-west directions, respectively, > > just below the > > disputed structure.' The report said that excavation > > clearly showed > > distinctive features of a tenth century temple below the > > ruins of the Babri > > Mosque. It further mentions discovery of 50 pillar bases, > > decorated bricks > > bearing features of 10th century, deities of Hindu gods and > > goddesses, lotus > > motifs, and curved architectural pieces. " > > Re: Godhra carnage. > > UC Bannerjee commision initiated by the congress on the > > Godhra Tran fire, > > was manipulated to generate the report of electric Short > > circuit. The reason > > is to protect the Congress men who were involved. > > "Was it secular to see chaurches destroyed" > > We made the mistake of watching Temples destroyed. > > Kandhamal > > Our central ministry did not have the guts do anything to > > the maoists even > > after the acceptance, but instead made statments on the > > aftermath of the > > Sawami's killing. > > On all of your questions, I have absolutely no > > disagreement, if all act in a > > truly secular manner. But the situation is otherwise. This > > so called > > secularism the brainchild of Nehru has been and will be > > minority appeasement > > and pseudo-secularism. > > Regards, > > V Murali > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 3:55 PM, Rakesh Iyer > > wrote: > > > > > Dear Murali Ji > > > > > > I give you a reverse account of what you have said, > > and ironically, this is > > > exactly in the vein you have sent the mail to me. May > > be this may make you > > > understand what I wish to say actually. > > > > > > These are also facts you should know: > > > > > > 1) The Babri Masjid was said to have been constructed > > on a spot which was > > > said to be the birth place of Lord Ram. Without any > > historical verification > > > of the place, or of any temple having been constructed > > on the spot, a call > > > was given by the Sangh Parivar and a Yatra was > > launched from Somnath to > > > Ayodhya under the leadership of Lal Krishna Advani, to > > ask for the Ram > > > Mandir to be constructed. Wherever the movement went, > > there were riots. > > > Gujarat, Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh etc. And further > > more, once he was > > > arrested by Lalu govt. in Bihar, there were more > > incidents of rioting, > > > arson, looting and rape across India. > > > > > > The entire thing culminated in the second worst > > communal set of incidents > > > across the country, particularly in Mumbai, of > > independent India, the first > > > unarguably being the riots at the time of Partition. > > What was worse was that > > > in many of the cases, unlike say the Partition, the > > incidents were planned, > > > meticulously, and selectively Muslims and Hindus were > > burnt and butchered > > > with arsonists having even voting lists and having > > marked homes of the > > > 'enemy' communities. Was that secular? > > > > > > 2) The Shiv Sena gave a call based on an incident > > which took place at > > > Radhabai Chawl in Jogeshwari, which was the burning of > > a few Hindus, to > > > teach 'Muslims' a lesson to his party activists. The > > Shiv Sena activists > > > then went on a killing spree, to follow the dictum of > > the party chief. The > > > entire set of incidents is quoted properly in the > > Srikrishna Commission > > > report, constituted to investigate the various > > incidents in 92-93 riots. The > > > commission indicted Shiv Sena chief to have been a > > major figure responsible > > > for deterioration of law and order in the city and the > > reason for crimes > > > being committed. Till date, the Commission > > investigation has not helped the > > > victims to get justice. And Thackeray openly > > challenged the police to arrest > > > him. > > > > > > Is that secular? > > > > > > What's more, based on these incidents, Tiger Memon and > > his boss Dawood > > > Ibrahim decided to take 'revenge' for what happened to > > 'their brothers and > > > sisters' during these riots, by organizing 1993 > > blasts, which resulted in > > > death of many innocents. Is that secular? > > > > > > Then again, at least this case was investigated and > > sentences were finally > > > read out about 16 years later. What about the riots > > though? Will they ever > > > be investigated? If not now, say in the next 1,000 > > years? > > > > > > 3) Then we come to 2002. The Gujarat govt first didn't > > do anything > > > worthwhile at all to stop Godhra. The Railway > > Minister, Nitish Kumar, > > > refused to order any inquiry into the incident at > > Godhra which led to > > > burning of 58 people at the station. What's more, the > > incident was used to > > > justify the carnage, rapes, mutilation, looting and > > killing (a massacre and > > > genocide in a sense) of Muslims to 'teach' them a > > lesson. > > > > > > And the CM of Gujarat, Narendra Modi, led the example > > by openly stating > > > Newton's third law as the reason for the riots. What's > > more, it took 72 > > > hours for the Army to be deployed in Gujarat, when the > > Army could have been > > > called much earlier. Three days, the rioters had a > > field day. The biggest > > > irony is that when the Defence Minister George > > Fernandes was in Gujarat to > > > take a stock of the situation, there was news of his > > vehicle being stoned as > > > well! If the Defence Minister's vehicle is not safe, > > what security was the > > > Modi govt giving to people, may I know? > > > > > > Was that secular? > > > > > > What is more, those who organized these riots were > > seen moving around with > > > voter lists or municipal lists stating addresses of > > people. Newspapers like > > > Sandesh and Gujarat Samachar were giving exaggerating > > reports daily one > > > after another of one or the other temple being > > destroyed, when there were > > > none in the first place. Editorials were published on > > a regular basis trying > > > to justify the violence as the reaction to Godhra. > > > > > > Modi asked whether Manmohan was providing chicken > > biryani to those > > > terrorists who were hiding in Charar-e-Sharif in the > > 1990's. Was Modi also > > > enjoying dal-bati and Gujarati vegetarian cuisine > > specially ordered from > > > hotels while the murderers and looters had a field > > day, with the police > > > doing nothing at all, and sometimes even helping them > > in a few places? Or > > > was he also getting supply of some of these women to > > enjoy himself? And what > > > was his Health Minister doing being in the Control > > Rooms to monitor the > > > situation during riots? And if he couldn't control his > > police, what is the > > > use of his 56-ki-chaati? > > > > > > He doesn't even have the guts without security guards > > around him. Where was > > > his masculine virtues then, when women were dragged > > out in front of their > > > husbands and raped? > > > > > > Instead, Modi later went on a Gaurav Rath Yatra to > > prove that Gujarat had > > > not lost its honour by allowing all this. Was that > > secular? > > > > > > Forget being secular, is that even justifiable? > > > > > > Were we dreaming when all this news came in? Some > > Gujaratis then said that > > > Muslims are lying. Is the death of more than 1,000 > > people a lie? Are all > > > these 'secularists' or those who state such things > > 'liars'? And only Godhra > > > is the truth? > > > > > > Tell me this. > > > > > > 4) Karnataka. The Sangh Parivar wanted to teach > > Christians a lesson for > > > 'proselytization'. Considering that it was their govt. > > (the BJP govt) in > > > Karnataka, couldnt' they have registered a police case > > for conversions under > > > 'fraud, force or allurement' against the respective > > organizations? And what > > > about protection of minorities? > > > > > > Was it secular to see churches destroyed? Has the BJP > > decided to function > > > in India under an alternative constitution to the one > > of India, namely the > > > Sangh Parivar Constitution? > > > > > > 5) Orissa. Kandhamal. The Swami was killed by the > > Maoists who even accepted > > > it, but the RSS and the hoodlums didn't have the balls > > to touch the Maoists, > > > othewise they wouldn't even have been seen in this > > world later. Instead, > > > they went on a killing spree to destroy Churches and > > kill tribals who had > > > been Christians. This way they brought about mass > > exodus of people, gave a > > > communal tinge to the election campaign (the accused > > in Kandhamal riots was > > > the BJP candidate for the Assembly) and also forced > > many converted tribals > > > to 'reconvert'. > > > > > > Do they even know themselves what it is to be a Hindu, > > forget being > > > secular? Do they know what Hinduism stands for? And > > who gave them the right > > > to decide whether the tribals are Hindus or not? > > > > > > 6) Every year, the BJP and its sister organizations > > force people indoors on > > > the Valentine's Day, in the name of protecting Indian > > culture. Who made BJP > > > the vanguard of the Indian culture? (or even the > > sister organizations for > > > that matter) Has the BJP patented the Indian culture > > to have some IPR > > > (intellectual property rights) over it? And do they > > have the licence to > > > decide Indian culture? > > > > > > If I also become a CM and allow criminals to do to BJP > > activists what they > > > have done to the rest of the nation, would that be > > acceptable or not? I want > > > an answer to this question as well. State yes or no > > for this question. > > > > > > Is all this secular? Tell me that? > > > > > > I can put more questions here, as many as you would > > want. And if you think > > > the Congress is communal, I have no issues with that. > > But I have a larger > > > fundamental issue, and that is clear. Nobody has the > > right to take law in > > > their own hands. And nobody has a right to restrict > > freedoms of others. > > > > > > And the BJP and the Sangh Parivar indulge in that, day > > in and day out. It's > > > much better to have a UPA govt. any day, which can be > > criticized for so many > > > scams and incidents and should be certainly punished > > for them (at least they > > > respond to public pressure and do bring some good acts > > like the NREGA and > > > may be the Right to Food will also come in), rather > > than the NDA, whose > > > philosophy was development only for the sake of > > economic growth, and always > > > minorities felt insecure (and of course, they had > > their share of scams as > > > well). Even today, there are more incidents of > > communal violence on daily > > > basis in states where BJP rules, compared to those > > where they don't rule. > > > > > > Can anybody answer that? > > > > > > Anyways, your problem as I said is that it's only > > religio-political matters > > > which are important for you people. You always feel as > > if you are the > > > victim. Hindus are the victim according to you people. > > You thrive on being > > > victimized. And that's even strange when you yourself > > haven't experienced > > > anything which should make you feel like a victim. And > > seriously, the only > > > thing you are doing is to play politics with this > > victimization, rather than > > > understanding the context in which those statements > > are made, or even trying > > > to forget the past and move forward and do something > > which can help the > > > people. > > > > > > Congratulations to the Sangh Parivar for having played > > politics with our > > > minds and having decided us on this forum and > > elsewhere as well. And for the > > > Hindutva believers, please start being rational and > > question your beliefs. > > > Golwalkar must be having great time wherever he is. > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Rakesh > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 13:46:46 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:46:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan In-Reply-To: <341380d00908060038y748b4ae6l8849209ef821b0c5@mail.gmail.com> References: <532801.99584.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <341380d00908060038y748b4ae6l8849209ef821b0c5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Anupam jee I would just add one more thing to your mail. You have stated that BJP won because it went on the plank of 'security, development and fight against corruption' in the 1998 elections. I think more than the BJP gain, it was the Congress which lost, and the reasons to me are clear somewhat in this statement of Aashish, the friend I constantly refer to in this forum: '40 saal tak Congress power mein thee. Unhone kya kiya?'. (For 40 years, the Congress was in power, as till 1989. What did they do?) The BJP and other parties asked this question, and stated that the answer was that Congress had done nothing. They staked their claim to power by stating that they will do something for the people. So the BJP (and others) came to power. But such politics also has its limitations. When the people send you in Delhi with the hope of getting benefits, and you don't provide it to them (sometimes because of your inability or incompetence, sometimes because of administrative incompetence, and sometimes because of too much being asked in too little time and space), they get impatient and fight for their rights. The BJP has a very tough road to power even in 2014, according to me, simply because not only would minorities never vote for it (as most of the minority section is poor and is threatened by the VHP and the Bajrang Dal), but also because now that the BJP has ruled, people know that they are not the answer to the question they asked themselves. And hence, Modi or no Modi, I don't see any BJP coming back to power, unless there is an all-India pogrom/riot/genocide or the Congress rules absolutely badly, or coalition politics ruins the Congress. (Also of course is the case that BJP is limited only to certain states in India, not the case with the Congress) Regards Rakesh From c.anupam at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 14:11:24 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:11:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan In-Reply-To: References: <532801.99584.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <341380d00908060038y748b4ae6l8849209ef821b0c5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00908060141u2388d28bkfb2a907057674ebb@mail.gmail.com> Dea Rakesh, I did not get this: "I don't see any BJP coming back to power, unless there is an all-India pogrom/riot/genocide or the Congress rules absolutely badly, or coalition politics ruins the Congress". If BJP comes into power only because of a riot or genocide, then people who stand up for the peace (which i am sure a majority of people believe in) are not doing a good job. There are people from BJP as well trying to bridge the communities from fighting. Some of them are not using the communal agenda at all but it has to do with frustration with local congress or CPI or other party. basically, for some BJP means a change of guard apart from other things such a communal stance or jingoistic call. Even in the riot-torn localities, you'd see several rioters from the both the communities sharing a bottle of booze in the night analysing what went wrong. The appeasement quotient is nothing but a drawing room conversation of those who are barely in touch with ground realities. It is a tool to forecast election results, allegiances, future coalitions and combines. -anupam 9, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Anupam jee > > I would just add one more thing to your mail. You have stated that BJP won > because it went on the plank of 'security, development and fight against > corruption' in the 1998 elections. I think more than the BJP gain, it was > the Congress which lost, and the reasons to me are clear somewhat in this > statement of Aashish, the friend I constantly refer to in this forum: > > '40 saal tak Congress power mein thee. Unhone kya kiya?'. (For 40 years, > the Congress was in power, as till 1989. What did they do?) > > The BJP and other parties asked this question, and stated that the answer > was that Congress had done nothing. They staked their claim to power by > stating that they will do something for the people. So the BJP (and others) > came to power. But such politics also has its limitations. When the people > send you in Delhi with the hope of getting benefits, and you don't provide > it to them (sometimes because of your inability or incompetence, sometimes > because of administrative incompetence, and sometimes because of too much > being asked in too little time and space), they get impatient and fight for > their rights. > > The BJP has a very tough road to power even in 2014, according to me, > simply because not only would minorities never vote for it (as most of the > minority section is poor and is threatened by the VHP and the Bajrang Dal), > but also because now that the BJP has ruled, people know that they are not > the answer to the question they asked themselves. > > And hence, Modi or no Modi, I don't see any BJP coming back to power, > unless there is an all-India pogrom/riot/genocide or the Congress rules > absolutely badly, or coalition politics ruins the Congress. (Also of course > is the case that BJP is limited only to certain states in India, not the > case with the Congress) > > Regards > > Rakesh > From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 6 14:18:17 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 01:48:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism (2) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <314430.17226.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Asad   Thank you for posting the Ishtiaq Ahmed piece.   In a 19/04/09 posting on this List (in a different context) I had written on "feudalism" in India. It is reproduced below.   Going through it again (and after reading Ishtiaq Ahmed's piece) I realised, that shockingly, I had shockingly left out "Feudalism of Castes" and "Feudalism of the Elite (remanants of monarchy and its liege).   Kshmendra     """"""""""""" Dear Shuddha   Allow me to share some simplistic thoughts on this.   What we see reflected in such instances from educational institutions is the feudalism and fiefdomism that is rooted in almost every aspect of our lives in India.  They are in myriad forms but still have all the exploitative aspects that existed a few hundred years back.   Feudalism became instutionalised and networked in India during the colonial rule. It admirably served the purpose of both Rule and Revenue.   Post 1947, attempts were made to erase out Agricultural Feudalism. There was some success but it continued to some extent through the Benami system.   At the same time Feudalism and Fiefdomism saw itself cloned and being employed in various spheres and utilised for purposes of exercising control or exacting monies outside legal domains.   Educational Institutions are just one such area.   Post 1947, the economic policies that allowed Private Enterprise but gave them some protection against competition led in due course to Feudalism of Business Houses.    At the same time, the economic policies of Licence Raj created the Feudalism of the Bureaucracy   Ironically, the adoption of Free  Market Economy policies in recent years, without appropriate protection for small businesses has again resulted in the Feudalism of Business Houses.   While at one time 'workers' suffered exploitative employment, ensuring of Labour Rights in some areas, predominantly Larger Industrial and other enterprises saw the emergence of the Feudalism of the Workers.   The Feudalism of the Police continued unchecked through the decades as did that of the Revenue Officers. They were truly the soldiers of the interconnected Feudal Empires.   Interestingly, those who should have been the rebels against such Feudalism themselves succumbed to it and we got the Feudalism of the Students.   One could give other examples, but what is common to any such Feudalism and Fiefdomism is the abuse of Rights, Authority and Power in the safe assumption that India seriously lacks in Accountability and Environment for Justice and Delivery of Justice. (Will not expand on that. I am sure it is not needed)   Senior students in an educational institution or the teaching faculty are a part of similar feudal structures in their areas of operation and influence. They find themselves because of their position, as being formally or informally vested with, not only Rights but also Power and Authority which they find easy to abuse in the absence of Accountability.   My simplistic take.    Kshmendra """"""""""""""""""""   Kshmendra     --- On Thu, 8/6/09, asad abbasi wrote: From: asad abbasi Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism (2) To: reader-list at sarai.net Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 7:35 AM Dear All, Ishtiaq Ahmed, in this article, rejects the view held by some that feudalism has never existed in South Asia. And doing so, he goes on to explain the historical and social aspect of this idea. And how Feudalism was adopted to capture the South Asian essence. How this phenomenon has neglected people of education, freedom and Justice. He cleverly looks beyond the single economic aspect of feudalism and talks about the cultural and social impacts on the society. Regards, Asad http://www.thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=111680 In a debate article in the Dawn of April 30, 2008, Haider Nizamani seeks to dispel the widely held view that feudalism exists in Pakistan. His asserts that feudalism never existed in South Asia. To consider honour killings and exploitation of peasants by mighty landlords as indicative of feudalism he finds untenable because according to him, by 1999, 88 percent of cultivated land in Pakistan was in farm sizes below 12.5 acres. Just over half the total farms were less than five acres in size. "This would hardly be the hallmark of a feudal society," he asserts. This economistic argument is a legitimate one, but too narrow, mechanical and formalistic, because it presupposes that if the economic base changes cultural and ideological changes follow suit. In reality there is never a perfect fit between a mode of production and cultural and ideological forms, otherwise the thoroughly capitalised economies of the Middle East would have no place for tribal norms and behaviour patterns. Marx was acutely aware of the far more complex relationship between the economic base and the superstructure. He famously observed that Christian theology remained the reigning ideology much after classical feudalism had disintegrated and dissolved. Classical feudalism emerged in Western Europe when the old city-based high cultures of the Greeks and the Romans disintegrated and the locus of social activity moved into local units headed by tiered nobility, which controlled their serfs through a range of economic and extra-economic coercions. The feudal vassals, in turn, rendered services to the superior lords, and that chain of services finally connected to the king, who was named as the "first among the lords." He claimed a tribute or levy from the lesser nobles, who also provided him with soldiers. The above description is, of course, an ideal one in the tradition of Max Weber. In reality no two feudalisms anywhere in Europe were the same, except in the essential sense of an agrarian economy providing much of the surplus, as well as the soldiers upon which the ruling classes built their leisured lifestyle. Christian theology justified social hierarchy, and people knew their place in society – the rule was that the superiors were chosen by God and obeying them was a duty and obligation. Professions and roles in society were inherited from father to son. Feudal society was fatalistic, superstitious and static in relative terms. Now, in the case of South Asia, striking parallels can be found in the power structure that prevailed during the pre-colonial period. A maharaja or emperor at the apex of that order received tribute from a descending but segmented hierarchy comprising smaller rajas and nawabs, mansabdars and zamindars and village headmen. They also provided him with soldiers. The incumbents of land grants under the mansabdari system (military-feudal order) held their fiefs during the pleasure of the emperor. Original rights to a fief were largely absent and the king could in principle expropriate an incumbent at any time. That is why Indian feudalism was more of an oriental despotism because in Western feudalism even absolute kings were in principle bound by the law. The mansabdars ruthlessly exploited the peasants and the other agrarian workforce to extract as much wealth as possible before their estate was taken away from them. When the Mogul Empire weakened and the hold of the central government loosened, the lesser rajas and nawabs asserted their independence, while the mansabdars became hereditary owners of their estates. The caste system and the elitist Islam of the Muslim ruling class – both sanctioned strict hierarchy. The Muslim ruling class, comprising descendants of Turkish, Afghan, Persian and Arabic origin, until the 19th century did not start associating with the bulk of the local converts. The threat they perceived from the rising Hindu middle class that had taken to education, trade and commerce, forced them to evolve the novel idea of a Muslim nation comprising all Muslims. The British perpetuated the dependency of princes, nawabs, rajas and so on, on the colonial state, but with ample latitude to continue to exploit the peasants, artisans and other poor working on their estates. In fact the British most skilfully used land grants to create landlords that would see to it that protests and rebellion among the people in their areas of influence were effectively crushed. At the same time, with regard to Punjab and the NWFP the landlords compelled their peasants to join the British Indian Army. With the exception of Pir Sabghatullah Pagaro and some others from Sindh, almost all other pirs (spiritual leaders) were solid supporters of the British Raj. Sindhi, Punjabi and Pakhtun Muslims lagged behind the Hindus and Sikhs because while the latter opened schools the Muslim landlords did not allow schools to be be established in their domains. Ayub Khuhro and many other Sindhi leaders were educated in schools established by Hindus. In the late 1960s, when I was associated with the Mazdoor-Kissan Party of Major Ishaq, some of our comrades tried to provide free literacy classes to peasants in the stronghold of the Mazaris and Legharis in southern Punjab. They were harassed out of those areas. The land reforms introduced by Ayub Khan and followed by a series of radical land reforms by Zulfikar Ali Bhutto weakened that class but did not abolish it. Even now in southern Punjab and interior Sindh that decadent class exercises considerable political clout and upholds a culture that is oppressive of women, and the poor in general. I was horrified when a landlord told me some years ago that all the young women that came to work on his farm had to provide him with sexual gratification, otherwise they would not be employed. Bonded labour still exists, notwithstanding a ban imposed on it by the Supreme Court. Feudalism in the strict Western sense may never have existed, but its subcontinental forms during the pre-colonial, colonial and post-colonial periods were no less harsh and oppressive. Pakistani feudalism may now be in its death throes, but that is no reason to exonerate it from continuing to wreck the lives of vast numbers of the rural poor in this region of peripheral capitalism. As a cultural and ideological system Pakistani feudalism is a bastion of conservative values and moribund ideas. The sooner its remaining vestiges are abolished and a healthy class of peasant proprietors is created, the better it would be for all of us. In the years ahead we would need to radically modernise our agricultural sector so that a smaller number of farmers can produce many times more the food we will need. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Messenger: Thanks for 10 great years—enjoy free winks and emoticons. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/ _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From indersalim at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 14:34:17 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:34:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change By Richard Shapiro In-Reply-To: <118672.22540.qm@web31801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <118672.22540.qm@web31801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70908060204v5febe98dv65142bfa63ac7404@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Dear Khurram for forward, wonderful essay. I quote from the article. “Will the differences integral to Kashmir be respected, affirmed, heard and engaged? Will 'the other' be the call to 'the self' to practice hospitality? Will the Gujur, the village woman who buried loved ones and waits in silence for words of/from other loved ones, the atheist, the ardent believer, the Shia, the Sufi, the pundit, the Buddhist, the differently abled, the homosexual, the beggar, the prostitute, be welcomed as participants in constructing a nation that will be 'a light unto other nations'” It reminds me of the article written by Arundhati Roy some time back, which created a huge storm in Delhi and around, but not because of the above questions which she too raised, but by saying ‘Kashmir needs freedom as much as India needs from Kashmir’. So we have two points, one for the Indian Administration in Kashmir , one for those who want freedom in Kashmir. Both the parties somehow escape the critical part of it. The article has not asked a single question to Pakistan Administered Kashmir. Kashmiris need to ask questions to all. The article has exonerated the entire diplomatic legacy of Anglo-American policies which cleverly divided Kashmir in 1947 and continued to support that divided legacy, which ensures their sale of Arms in this subcontinent. It is not difficult to guess how much of both Indian and Pakistani budget contributes in maintaining their defence industry. So why on earth they will let the Kashmir issue be resolved. Needless to mention about what they did in Iraq , Afghanistan or elsewhere in the past. It is a large mess. Blaming India alone will be a short cut to the problem. So how to read the incomplete essay which is nevertheless seriously written and deserves a debate. We all know how WITH DISSENT COMES RESPONSIBILTY, and if in the present we are searching a non-violent solution to the pending issues based on Ethics then we need to create a situation which gives no excuse to the Indian Army to be there. Let there be no violence, not even a six inch pebble throwing catapult. Let there be creative ways to make the Indian presence irrelevant. One of them is, don’t use the Indian goods, as Gandhi did to British. But it is not easy, there must be other effective ways too, if there is a will. So, again there are two methodologies which are working in Kashmir. One is Armed Struggle and the other is non-violent strategy. We have no mechanism to talk about the armed part of it, because either we approve that methodology or demand its abandonment. The blind support to Armed Struggle would automatically tantamount to ‘ bad faith’. Yes, they wont listen to us, because there are mechanisms which legitimizes the others ( American ) intervention simply because there is violence/war on the ground. And Americans like Violence, which suits both Indian and Pakistani position on Kashmir. We are certainly waiting for a simple Sufi Kashmiri version of freedom based on ethics and tolerance for the other. Where is cultural expressioin of freedom, why it is inferior to a gun shot. If we were wise enough in the first place to resolve the issue at our own then we ( Indian and Pakistani) should gift The entire nuclear weaponry to USA. It is because we are unwise that we approve violence that gives shape to a politics, and we ( writing and reflecting the written ) become end users of their actions. We need to support a change that renders the Violence impotent. Mr. Richard also writes about ‘Cultural Annihilation’ ( of Kashmiris by Indians ) . To club cultural annihilation with Indian Security excesses is again slippery and contrived. Kashmiris themselves are indifferent to their cultural moorings. But there is a reason for that, which is again because of Indian position with regard to Kashmir. No one can deny that Kashmiri Pandits and Muslims have a shared past in Kashmir but since Kashmiri Pandits are Hindus too, who happen to be Indians too, and therefore, supporters of Indian policy on Kashmir. So, unfortunately, Kashmiri Muslims had to chisel out any similarity that make them resemble Indians. Here, again, we can blame Indian occupation of Kashmir, but at some point of time, Kashmiris need to protect their heritage, culture and language. No excuses, whatsoever. Recently, I happened to visit amazing ruins of Parihaspur of great Lalitaditya of 700 AD. Wahabi radical sect of Islam disapproves presence of such ruins around the place they live. The fear of contamination in fatih leads them to motivate the young to deface the figures in any ruins they discover , which is ‘ swaab’ ( work in the name of god ). Language: I saw many younger generation Kashmiris speaking Urdu ( kashmiri-urdu) to each other even in normal conversation. One of the students said frankly that only Villagers speak now Kashmiri. The modern fast changing life style is the other main reason for Cultural Annihilation which the intellectuals of Kashmir should take note of, if there is a need for a free and independent Kashmir. Or, if the modern ways of living approve every change we experience then to talk about ETHICS engages the entire changing global scenario on the earth. Then again, we may include ENVIRONMENT to ethics as well. With love is On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Khurram Parvez wrote: > > > A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change > > By Richard Shapiro > > > > > > August 04, 2009 > > http://www.sacw.net/article1090.html > > > > > > What > are the various roles that diverse constituencies must play to > facilitate political processes that undo militarization and subjugation > in Indian administered Kashmir? How can systemic structures that > institutionalize violence, cultural annihilation, economic > impoverishment, and political disempowerment be countered through > non-violent, ethical resistance? What alliances are necessary to allow > hope for overcoming cycles of oppression and breaking with histories of > domination? How can international, national, and local actors and > institutions work together to disrupt socially unnecessary suffering > and ameliorate the conditions of existence? What forces must cohere to > enable a just peace to emerge in a democratic Kashmir in the > foreseeable future? > > > > Numerous obstacles present tremendous > challenges to movements for social justice. The current world order is > predicated on systems of inequality that hierarchically divide > countries, peoples, cultures, classes, genders, sexualities, > ethnicities, and faith traditions to the benefit of the few and the > detriment of the many. Dominant powers prescribe the rules of the game > to their advantage and utilize knowledge, technology, and markets to > structure social relations in their interests. The new global order > presents itself as the best of all possible worlds in which sovereign > nation-states organized through representative democracy, rule of law, > free markets with government regulation, Enlightenment rationality, and > human rights are promised as the solution to the problems of poverty, > war, ecological devastation, genocide, and terrorism. > > > > This > dominant narrative of progress through the spread of capitalism > organized in nation-states and guided by knowledge has attained > hegemony as it has captured the imagination of postcolonial nations > like India. Postcolonial nations have largely reproduced the structures > of colonial oppression and organized themselves to become players in > the existing global order as militarized, hyper-masculinized, nuclear > powers measuring their worth on the basis of GDP (Gross Domestic > Product). Emerging middle-classes of massive proportion in postcolonial > nations like India buttress this process of nation building that > mirrors and enforces dynamics of globalization through the production > of unparalleled poverty, massive and multiple dislocations, genocide of > indigenous peoples, ecological disaster, and abundant psychological > malaise. India is embraced by the international community, meaning > largely the United States and Western Europe, precisely because it > marches in step with the new world order. India amasses great cultural > capital as “the world's largest democracy” in spite of the fact that it > is home to 40% of the worlds most economically destitute, and seeks to > constitute itself as a nation through policies that disregard the needs > of the vast majority of its population. > > > > India is inventing > nothing new in its self-constitution as a powerful nation-state. > National identity is being fabricated through the equation of India > with Hindus, in blatant form in entities like the RSS and BJP, and in > more subtle form in the Congress and progressive Indian citizens for > whom nationalism linked to 'Hindu cultural reassertion' is an > unreflective response to a colonial past. The equation of Hinduism > (unity in diversity) and Christianity with tolerance for difference, > and Islam with terrorism, backwardness, and fanaticism, functions as a > global trope supportive of unleashing disproportionate violence on > Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Palestine, as well as within the > territory of India in Gujurat, Orissa, and in the 'disputed territory' > of Kashmir. India forms itself as nation with unexamined Hindu > majoritarianism at its base, just as unexamined Christian cultural > dominance organizes the United States, rendering explorations of the > links between religionization, nationalism and particular secularisms > close to impossible. India is also typical in its self-formation as > nation in fashioning internal and external enemies as crucial to > defining itself, and super-exploiting its most proximate 'others' to > fuel its prosperity. European nations had the Jew as internal enemy. > The United States is founded on the backs of its twin others - enslaved > Africans and massacred Native Americans. > > > > India has as its main > 'internal other' the Muslim, who can take no solace in also occupying > the role as external enemy in India's dominant narrative. This double > site is what the state uses to legitimate the brutalization of the > Kashmiri people. Firstly, there is India's need for a majority Muslim > state within its borders to legitimate itself as a progressive, > pluralistic, secular nation. Without a Muslim majority state within > India, India cannot as easily legitimate itself as a progressive member > of the new global order. Secondly there is India's need to establish > national identities that take precedence over regional, local, > traditional identities. As a nation, India is in the process of > seeking: (1) to establish territorial dominion over the current > boundaries of the nation, (2) attain a monopoly on the means of > violence, and (3) organize human and natural resources to enhance the > productivity and power of the nation. Every nation that has achieved > the normative status of modern democracy has utilized sustained and > prolific violence to realize these three imperatives and in the process > establish its identity. India is in a very vulnerable moment in this > process as is evident from an examination of the myriad territories and > forces fighting for autonomy in some form from the Indian state. Part > of the strategy to foster national identity, simultaneous to providing > very little to the vast majority of its population, and in fact > fostering mal-development that impoverishes and displaces poor, rural > 'citizens', is to fabricate an 'us' that must protect itself from > 'them'. Without internal enemies India cannot unify itself as a nation. > > > > This > internal enemy is also resolutely claimed as integral to India. The > state and its loyal subjects repeat the same refrain: 'Kashmir is an > integral part of India.' 'Kashmir is integral to India.' Kashmir is the > other that is integral to the self, a difference that is integral to > the identity of India. How then does India treat this other, this > integral difference? To debase, devalue, disrespect, destroy the > people, culture, history, land, waters, aspirations, imaginations, > passions, thoughts, of this other that is claimed as integral to self > reveals much about India's current state of existence. What other > measure is available to us to assess ourselves as ethical entities than > how we treat the other, how we engage the differences to which we are > ethically obliged to respond? What nation has satisfactorily answered > to this call? If a day arrives when Kashmir is 'a nation unto itself', > independent and sovereign, an equal to all other nations, will Kashmir > point the nation-state in a new direction? Will the differences > integral to Kashmir be respected, affirmed, heard and engaged? Will > 'the other' be the call to 'the self' to practice hospitality? Will the > Gujur, the village woman who buried loved ones and waits in silence for > words of/from other loved ones, the atheist, the ardent believer, the > Shia, the Sufi, the pundit, the Buddhist, the differently abled, the > homosexual, the beggar, the prostitute, be welcomed as participants in > constructing a nation that will be 'a light unto other nations'? Will > the other be welcomed without the demand or structural incentive to > assimilate, to mirror/mimic dominance to be recognized as human? These > questions are too much, perhaps even unfair. Yet, is it not necessary > to raise them? > > > > Kashmir occupies a literal and imaginary border > as inside and outside of India in ways that structure an impossible > predicament. The state (and its elites and middle-classes) does not > trust Kashmiris whose allegiance is always presumed to lie with > Pakistan as an Islamic Republic, thus denying Kashmiris the rights of > citizens of India, while asserting the inviolability of its sovereignty > over Kashmir as a secular, democratic nation governed by equality under > rule of law. The distrust legitimates military rule organized through > special laws as necessary to provide law and order as a matter of > internal security. Thus, on the basis of being part of a democratic > state, the rights granted citizens of such a state are denied to > Kashmiris. Inclusion in nation is coupled with dispossession from > historical memory, rights, and life. India legitimates its mistreatment > through a logic originating with European nation-states. This denial of > civil and human rights, rule of law, and the freedoms of citizenship to > Kashmiris is because the state must protect itself from forces within > itself that threaten its character as a lawful, democratic nation. > India must violate what is most inviolable, through a state of > exception (the use of law to suspend law as definitive of sovereignty), > to protect itself. The discourse requires the allegiance of the > Kashmiri people to India, as proof that Kashmiris are not what the > nation suspects - traitors and terrorists, as precondition to access to > the rights of citizenship. These same rights of citizenship provided by > the nation, while denied to Kashmiris, are used by India to justify its > claims to being a legitimate state entitled to act as it does in > Kashmir. As a legitimate state, India is predicated on civil rights and > rule of law that it may legitimately suspend in the name of national > security. Kashmiris must align with India given this legitimacy, while > living as subjects without rights in so far as the state defines them > as a threat to its sovereignty. India must violate what gives it > legitimacy in order to protect itself from the internal enemy integral > to it. India must destroy itself to protect itself. The state of > exception produces a state of autoimmunity. India is also asserting > itself as superior to other regional nation-states, and an emerging > player in relation to Western Europe and the United States. Like other > powerful democracies, India is entitled to do whatever is necessary to > fight terrorism and strengthen itself as a powerful, sovereign, > capitalist nation, aligned with the movement of progress (dominance). > > > > Kashmiris > are placed in a situation where allegiance to India as prerequisite to > participation in a lawful democracy involves allegiance to a state that > has no rational basis to demand or expect allegiance from the people of > Kashmir. India needs to exaggerate the degree of cross-border > infiltration and armed Islamist militancy to rationalize 500,000+ > troops, blurred boundaries between police and army, and massive > intervention in daily life through systematic surveillance, land > seizures, checkpoints, torture, disappearances, gendered and sexualized > violence, fake encounter deaths and countless daily humiliations > calculated to break the spirit of the Kashmiri people. This reality is > currently resisted through mass demonstrations, regular protests, > strategic use of elections, strategic boycott of elections, navigating > restrictions on 'free press', civil society mobilizations, legal cases, > an International Tribunal, and regular acts of dignity, courage, and > faith that characterize the present in Kashmir. India demonstrates the > persona all too common in the 'league of nations' - to act with > impunity and disregard for international law and local demands for > justice. India uses this fiction of the Kashmiri as existing in the > shadowy space of inside/outside the nation to legitimate an occupation > that ignores the historical particularity of Kashmir and the promises > made to the people of Kashmir to determine its own future. The plight > of Kashmiri pundits also becomes an opportunity for the state to > legitimate regularized violence and systematic oppression of Kashmiris. > Were all Kashmiris, whether currently residing in the state of > Jammu/Kashmir or elsewhere, to be given voice to express their will, > free from coercion, retribution, and manipulation, the outcome would > not be in doubt. > > > > Kashmir is the longest standing disputed area > in the United Nations, the most militarized spot on earth, and a drain > on the hopes for prosperity, peace and freedom for people throughout > the subcontinent, and the world. There is no moving toward peaceful > coexistence between India and Pakistan, no stabilization of the region, > no possibility for global nuclear disarmament, no hope for forms of > development that prioritize sustainability and cultural survival over > militarization, urbanization, and middle-class consumerism, no space > for the impossible healing through mourning/memorializing the trauma of > Partition, without granting self-determination to the people of Kashmir. > > > > The > realization of that which is demanded by rationality in service of > justice and emancipation is always against the odds. In relation to > Kashmir, a more peaceful future requires at least four interrelated > movements: (1) Massive, non-violent, ethical dissent within Kashmiri > civil society must continue and expand, attentive to alliances that > build stronger relations between men and women, youth and adults, > various faith communities, urban and rural, rich and poor, facilitative > of inclusive forms of polity that enable a diverse, pluralistic > movement for freedom. (2) Leadership must form a unified coalition that > activates and learns from the multiple constituencies that make up > Kashmiri society. Divergent desires and imaginations regarding the > future of Kashmir should be encouraged and discussed, outside the > search for homogeneity or conformity. A Kashmir free of subjugation > should enable multiple forms of life through participatory democracy, > just governance, and economic practice promoting health, education, and > individual and collective prosperity. Natural resources, like water, > should be both safeguarded, and utilized for sustainable development. > Cultural heritage should be understood as an inheritance of all > Kashmiris to fashion a unique society nurturing hospitality, > innovation, and multicultural polity. (3) Education and mobilization to > shift public opinion in India must be undertaken throughout civil > society to expand pressure on the Indian state. Citizen delegations > from the various states and communities of India must visit Kashmir to > learn first hand about the atrocities, resistances, hopes, and concerns > prevalent in Kashmir. Such delegations must bring their new > understandings to their neighborhoods, schools, workplaces, and places > of worship to facilitate discussion and reflection that expand the > voices of those who demand that illegal and immoral action in Kashmir > done in their name immediately cease. Institutions in India must > sponsor delegations from Kashmir, composed of diverse peoples who > constitute Kashmiri society, to share the realities they have suffered > and the need for alliance toward justice. Hindu faith communities must > forge relationships with social justice movements in civil society in > Kashmir to oppose Hindu majoritarian dominance and insist that the > Indian state demilitarize the state of Jammu & Kashmir, become > accountable to international agreements, rule of law, and human rights > as the first step on the road to affirming the right of Kashmir to > self-determination. Universities and the press must play a strong role > in addressing the history and present of Kashmir to empower students > and the citizenry of India to participate as informed members of a > democratic republic, whose resources and conscience are systematically > misused and violated by their government. (4) International > solidarities from citizens, governmental and non-governmental > organizations, students, workers, professionals, public intellectuals, > faith communities, and all interested parties must be organized to > educate, inform, advocate, and mobilize for the liberation of Kashmir. > International institutions must be both utilized and strengthened as > legitimate sites able to hold nation-states legally accountable for > their actions. Research, education, and publication on the reality of > present-day Kashmir and its modern history must be supported by and > within universities, think tanks, and civil society forums. Campuses > must become sites where students mobilize themselves to exert public > pressure to ethically resolve the situation in Kashmir. Resistance in > all four 'sites' must struggle to establish alliances, clarify goals, > mobilize resources, deconstruct desires, and carve out space where > different forms of polity and community, promoting ethical dissent, may > live. > > > > To commit to these practices secures no guarantees. The > process must draw from the resolve of Kashmiris to struggle for justice > and strengthen this resolve through principled alliance that breaks the > isolation and despair that accompanies any people subjected to brutal > mistreatment. The multiple legacies that inspire and haunt us must > become the very sustenance that, through sharing, nurtures our > struggle. Allow me to conclude by drawing from a source common to the > three Abrahamic traditions, and of universal relevance in the present, > Deuteronomy 16:20, Justice, Justice, You Shall Pursue. > > > > > > Richard > Shapiro is Chair and Associate Professor, Department of Social and > Cultural Anthropology, California Institute of Integral Studies in San > Francisco. > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From karimnonvore at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 14:47:32 2009 From: karimnonvore at gmail.com (karimnanvore karim) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:47:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Check this special issue on partition of conveyor from srinagar Message-ID: www.conveyormagazine.com. From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Thu Aug 6 14:45:57 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:15:57 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism (2) In-Reply-To: <314430.17226.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <314430.17226.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Well analysed article. It should not be difficult to draw parallels with what still exists in India. Kshemendra had brought out some of its oddness earlier. Regards all LA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 01:48:17 -0700 > From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > To: reader-list at sarai.net; asad_abbasi at hotmail.com > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Feudalism (2) > > Dear Asad > > Thank you for posting the Ishtiaq Ahmed piece. > > In a 19/04/09 posting on this List (in a different context) I had written on "feudalism" in India. It is reproduced below. > > Going through it again (and after reading Ishtiaq Ahmed's piece) I realised, that shockingly, I had shockingly left out "Feudalism of Castes" and "Feudalism of the Elite (remanants of monarchy and its liege). > > Kshmendra > > > """"""""""""" > Dear Shuddha > > Allow me to share some simplistic thoughts on this. > > What we see reflected in such instances from educational institutions is the feudalism and fiefdomism that is rooted in almost every aspect of our lives in India. They are in myriad forms but still have all the exploitative aspects that existed a few hundred years back. > > Feudalism became instutionalised and networked in India during the colonial rule. It admirably served the purpose of both Rule and Revenue. > > Post 1947, attempts were made to erase out Agricultural Feudalism. There was some success but it continued to some extent through the Benami system. > > At the same time Feudalism and Fiefdomism saw itself cloned and being employed in various spheres and utilised for purposes of exercising control or exacting monies outside legal domains. > > Educational Institutions are just one such area. > > Post 1947, the economic policies that allowed Private Enterprise but gave them some protection against competition led in due course to Feudalism of Business Houses. > > At the same time, the economic policies of Licence Raj created the Feudalism of the Bureaucracy > > Ironically, the adoption of Free Market Economy policies in recent years, without appropriate protection for small businesses has again resulted in the Feudalism of Business Houses. > > While at one time 'workers' suffered exploitative employment, ensuring of Labour Rights in some areas, predominantly Larger Industrial and other enterprises saw the emergence of the Feudalism of the Workers. > > The Feudalism of the Police continued unchecked through the decades as did that of the Revenue Officers. They were truly the soldiers of the interconnected Feudal Empires. > > Interestingly, those who should have been the rebels against such Feudalism themselves succumbed to it and we got the Feudalism of the Students. > > One could give other examples, but what is common to any such Feudalism and Fiefdomism is the abuse of Rights, Authority and Power in the safe assumption that India seriously lacks in Accountability and Environment for Justice and Delivery of Justice. (Will not expand on that. I am sure it is not needed) > > Senior students in an educational institution or the teaching faculty are a part of similar feudal structures in their areas of operation and influence. They find themselves because of their position, as being formally or informally vested with, not only Rights but also Power and Authority which they find easy to abuse in the absence of Accountability. > > My simplistic take. > > Kshmendra > """""""""""""""""""" > > Kshmendra > > > > --- On Thu, 8/6/09, asad abbasi wrote: > > > From: asad abbasi > Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism (2) > To: reader-list at sarai.net > Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 7:35 AM > > > > Dear All, > > Ishtiaq Ahmed, in this article, rejects the view held by some that feudalism has never existed in South Asia. And doing so, he goes on to explain the historical and social aspect of this idea. And how Feudalism was adopted to capture the South Asian essence. How this phenomenon has neglected people of education, freedom and Justice. He cleverly looks beyond the single economic aspect of feudalism and talks about the cultural and social impacts on the society. > > > > Regards, > > Asad > > > > > > > > > > http://www.thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=111680 > > In a debate article in the Dawn of April 30, 2008, Haider Nizamani seeks to dispel the widely held view that feudalism exists in Pakistan. His asserts that feudalism never existed in South Asia. To consider honour killings and exploitation of peasants by mighty landlords as indicative of feudalism he finds untenable because according to him, by 1999, 88 percent of cultivated land in Pakistan was in farm sizes below 12.5 acres. Just over half the total farms were less than five acres in size. "This would hardly be the hallmark of a feudal society," he asserts. > > This economistic argument is a legitimate one, but too narrow, mechanical and formalistic, because it presupposes that if the economic base changes cultural and ideological changes follow suit. In reality there is never a perfect fit between a mode of production and cultural and ideological forms, otherwise the thoroughly capitalised economies of the Middle East would have no place for tribal norms and behaviour patterns. Marx was acutely aware of the far more complex relationship between the economic base and the superstructure. He famously observed that Christian theology remained the reigning ideology much after classical feudalism had disintegrated and dissolved. > > Classical feudalism emerged in Western Europe when the old city-based high cultures of the Greeks and the Romans disintegrated and the locus of social activity moved into local units headed by tiered nobility, which controlled their serfs through a range of economic and extra-economic coercions. The feudal vassals, in turn, rendered services to the superior lords, and that chain of services finally connected to the king, who was named as the "first among the lords." He claimed a tribute or levy from the lesser nobles, who also provided him with soldiers. > > The above description is, of course, an ideal one in the tradition of Max Weber. In reality no two feudalisms anywhere in Europe were the same, except in the essential sense of an agrarian economy providing much of the surplus, as well as the soldiers upon which the ruling classes built their leisured lifestyle. > > Christian theology justified social hierarchy, and people knew their place in society – the rule was that the superiors were chosen by God and obeying them was a duty and obligation. Professions and roles in society were inherited from father to son. Feudal society was fatalistic, superstitious and static in relative terms. > > Now, in the case of South Asia, striking parallels can be found in the power structure that prevailed during the pre-colonial period. A maharaja or emperor at the apex of that order received tribute from a descending but segmented hierarchy comprising smaller rajas and nawabs, mansabdars and zamindars and village headmen. They also provided him with soldiers. > > The incumbents of land grants under the mansabdari system (military-feudal order) held their fiefs during the pleasure of the emperor. Original rights to a fief were largely absent and the king could in principle expropriate an incumbent at any time. That is why Indian feudalism was more of an oriental despotism because in Western feudalism even absolute kings were in principle bound by the law. The mansabdars ruthlessly exploited the peasants and the other agrarian workforce to extract as much wealth as possible before their estate was taken away from them. When the Mogul Empire weakened and the hold of the central government loosened, the lesser rajas and nawabs asserted their independence, while the mansabdars became hereditary owners of their estates. > > The caste system and the elitist Islam of the Muslim ruling class – both sanctioned strict hierarchy. The Muslim ruling class, comprising descendants of Turkish, Afghan, Persian and Arabic origin, until the 19th century did not start associating with the bulk of the local converts. The threat they perceived from the rising Hindu middle class that had taken to education, trade and commerce, forced them to evolve the novel idea of a Muslim nation comprising all Muslims. > > The British perpetuated the dependency of princes, nawabs, rajas and so on, on the colonial state, but with ample latitude to continue to exploit the peasants, artisans and other poor working on their estates. In fact the British most skilfully used land grants to create landlords that would see to it that protests and rebellion among the people in their areas of influence were effectively crushed. > > At the same time, with regard to Punjab and the NWFP the landlords compelled their peasants to join the British Indian Army. With the exception of Pir Sabghatullah Pagaro and some others from Sindh, almost all other pirs (spiritual leaders) were solid supporters of the British Raj. > > Sindhi, Punjabi and Pakhtun Muslims lagged behind the Hindus and Sikhs because while the latter opened schools the Muslim landlords did not allow schools to be be established in their domains. Ayub Khuhro and many other Sindhi leaders were educated in schools established by Hindus. In the late 1960s, when I was associated with the Mazdoor-Kissan Party of Major Ishaq, some of our comrades tried to provide free literacy classes to peasants in the stronghold of the Mazaris and Legharis in southern Punjab. They were harassed out of those areas. > > The land reforms introduced by Ayub Khan and followed by a series of radical land reforms by Zulfikar Ali Bhutto weakened that class but did not abolish it. Even now in southern Punjab and interior Sindh that decadent class exercises considerable political clout and upholds a culture that is oppressive of women, and the poor in general. > > I was horrified when a landlord told me some years ago that all the young women that came to work on his farm had to provide him with sexual gratification, otherwise they would not be employed. Bonded labour still exists, notwithstanding a ban imposed on it by the Supreme Court. > > Feudalism in the strict Western sense may never have existed, but its subcontinental forms during the pre-colonial, colonial and post-colonial periods were no less harsh and oppressive. Pakistani feudalism may now be in its death throes, but that is no reason to exonerate it from continuing to wreck the lives of vast numbers of the rural poor in this region of peripheral capitalism. > > As a cultural and ideological system Pakistani feudalism is a bastion of conservative values and moribund ideas. The sooner its remaining vestiges are abolished and a healthy class of peasant proprietors is created, the better it would be for all of us. In the years ahead we would need to radically modernise our agricultural sector so that a smaller number of farmers can produce many times more the food we will need. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live Messenger: Thanks for 10 great years—enjoy free winks and emoticons. > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ We all see it as it is. But on MSN India, the difference lies in perspective. http://in.msn.com From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 14:51:36 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:51:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan In-Reply-To: References: <532801.99584.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <341380d00908060038y748b4ae6l8849209ef821b0c5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908060221w23601a44l2eb91573209e0af7@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, and Murali jee, Rahul and Anupam jee, the posts of Rahul jee, " First of all, it's you who keep on constantly arguing about discrimination being made against Hindus in the name of minority appeasement and religious basis. And in this mission, you are not alone but served by the likes of Murali ji and others as well. " " My simple argument to you on that would be that are there facts and figures which prove your statement at all. If yes, please do present them here. Manmohan Singh and Congress and other 'secularist' parties can say many things, but the ground realities are totally different, going by the data collected through the Census and other surveys." here are some submissions which need to be done to clear the averrments arrived at by the two of the members and many others who are talking about discrimination and that my posts are about hindus being "victims" of such discrimination. I am talking about the discrimination made to group of individuals as citizens of India, group being of "upper" castes, "lower" castes, being "muslims" and "christians" in extending the rule of laws, exempting some from the crimes they have made, indulged because they belong to particular faith, caste or gender or power and wealth. Democratic governance envisages rule of laws to all citizens in the same format, without discrimination,some being given subsidies for the pilgrimage, when the faith does not approve it, attempt of a CM to give subsidy to his citizens of the state who wish to visit Pope, Nazareth and Jerusalem, efforts to extend this to those who wish to visit manasa sarovar are all appeasements to set of individuals for the feel good factor of being the appeasement for votes.The judges who fudge with rule laws can not be tolerated, same as beauracrats who cheat the nation can not be in governance and politicians who divide the citizens for the gains of vote banks can not be in legislatures. Citizens who do not participate in the selection of their representatives should not venture out to preach about the governance as 46 persons vote and 54 persons sit and watch tv in the drawing room , finding excuses not to vote. The individuals, some of them, who did not, could not vote, because if they go for voting their family would starve as they could not earn that day, is the sad fact.With the type of sermonisation in the forums, the type of media business that is running the nation , it is disgusting to see the change that every one needs and feels for it is only in discusssons,, oops, sorry not even in discussions, some one is obsessed with "nandu" and id cards, because he is latently scared that his "freedom" to indulge in unlawful as wellas legal activity may be monitored.! As to BJP, it was the choice of the citizens hoping for beter governance, that NDA came into being when Congress failed in walks of life in governance, but inspite of some good performance by NDA, in infrastructure like highways , farming and fertiliser and open policies on movment of food grains in the whole of the nation as per market dictates, prices of essential commodities were reasonable, within reach of all,the media played havoc with the process of elections, being partisan, could not tolerate the NDA, went appeasing the oldest party, got the padmashris for the effort along with ad revenue for the game, ofcourse the mole in EC had bigger role to play, EVM s doctoring, making the loosing congress men to win, one example of "Chidu" is enough to quote like the posts of "Nandu" and PM who till now was obedient school boy of madam to headmaster Bush, now is bold adolescent, knowing fully well, the TINA factor, There Is No Alternative" for this PM, as Roberto Rahul needs some more time to organise the party at grass root level. As to loss of BJP, it is one single factor, shikhandi in front of Bhishma, who did not understand that he belonged to old times, new generation does not accept him as leader inspite of his being master in double speak of hinduthva and secularism.When Advani spoke of weak PM, he withdrew from the attack, half fought it, instead, he could have told the nation, when shikhandi spoke of Mr. Bush being most popular with indians, not Obama, that his perception is not correct, youth likes Obama, is ready for his imagined path of change, thus identifying himself with the change.Arun Jailtley and Rajnath both made mess of the campaign, as Rajnath who can not win 10 seats in UP is the useless national president of BJP, to inspire the youth.! Left got fooled by the shikhandi, as laughing hyenas were more dangerous with the pack of yadavs, than these barking dogs.! Thus divided franchise and the role of EVMs and doe outs to media, both print and visual, had their adverisements and duties for Congress cut out. Can anyone explain why some tv channels are getting ESIC ads which is the money of employees of state insurance and emploters for the health care.? Can anyone explain why all are now silent after the release of Prajna Takur as ever before unlike the Binayak Sen release or detention.? is it that only those who support naxalites have human rights and are paragons of virtue.? Why all the womens rights activists and human rights activists become super active on selective basis.? Regards, Rajen. On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Anupam jee > > I would just add one more thing to your mail. You have stated that BJP won > because it went on the plank of 'security, development and fight against > corruption' in the 1998 elections. I think more than the BJP gain, it was > the Congress which lost, and the reasons to me are clear somewhat in this > statement of Aashish, the friend I constantly refer to in this forum: > > '40 saal tak Congress power mein thee. Unhone kya kiya?'. (For 40 years, > the > Congress was in power, as till 1989. What did they do?) > > The BJP and other parties asked this question, and stated that the answer > was that Congress had done nothing. They staked their claim to power by > stating that they will do something for the people. So the BJP (and others) > came to power. But such politics also has its limitations. When the people > send you in Delhi with the hope of getting benefits, and you don't provide > it to them (sometimes because of your inability or incompetence, sometimes > because of administrative incompetence, and sometimes because of too much > being asked in too little time and space), they get impatient and fight for > their rights. > > The BJP has a very tough road to power even in 2014, according to me, > simply > because not only would minorities never vote for it (as most of the > minority > section is poor and is threatened by the VHP and the Bajrang Dal), but also > because now that the BJP has ruled, people know that they are not the > answer > to the question they asked themselves. > > And hence, Modi or no Modi, I don't see any BJP coming back to power, > unless > there is an all-India pogrom/riot/genocide or the Congress rules absolutely > badly, or coalition politics ruins the Congress. (Also of course is the > case > that BJP is limited only to certain states in India, not the case with the > Congress) > > Regards > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 14:58:47 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:58:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism (2) In-Reply-To: References: <314430.17226.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908060228s5e23ceeave9815361766ff928@mail.gmail.com> Well analysed Kshemedra, good analysis. Regards, Rajen. On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Lalit Ambardar wrote: > > > > > > Well analysed article. It > should not be difficult to draw parallels with what still exists in India. > Kshemendra > had brought out some of its oddness earlier. > > > > Regards all > > LA > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 01:48:17 -0700 > > From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > > To: reader-list at sarai.net; asad_abbasi at hotmail.com > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Feudalism (2) > > > > Dear Asad > > > > Thank you for posting the Ishtiaq Ahmed piece. > > > > In a 19/04/09 posting on this List (in a different context) I had written > on "feudalism" in India. It is reproduced below. > > > > Going through it again (and after reading Ishtiaq Ahmed's piece) I > realised, that shockingly, I had shockingly left out "Feudalism of Castes" > and "Feudalism of the Elite (remanants of monarchy and its liege). > > > > Kshmendra > > > > > > """"""""""""" > > Dear Shuddha > > > > Allow me to share some simplistic thoughts on this. > > > > What we see reflected in such instances from educational institutions is > the feudalism and fiefdomism that is rooted in almost every aspect of our > lives in India. They are in myriad forms but still have all the > exploitative aspects that existed a few hundred years back. > > > > Feudalism became instutionalised and networked in India during the > colonial rule. It admirably served the purpose of both Rule and Revenue. > > > > Post 1947, attempts were made to erase out Agricultural Feudalism. There > was some success but it continued to some extent through the Benami system. > > > > At the same time Feudalism and Fiefdomism saw itself cloned and being > employed in various spheres and utilised for purposes of exercising control > or exacting monies outside legal domains. > > > > Educational Institutions are just one such area. > > > > Post 1947, the economic policies that allowed Private Enterprise but gave > them some protection against competition led in due course to Feudalism of > Business Houses. > > > > At the same time, the economic policies of Licence Raj created the > Feudalism of the Bureaucracy > > > > Ironically, the adoption of Free Market Economy policies in recent > years, without appropriate protection for small businesses has again > resulted in the Feudalism of Business Houses. > > > > While at one time 'workers' suffered exploitative employment, ensuring of > Labour Rights in some areas, predominantly Larger Industrial and other > enterprises saw the emergence of the Feudalism of the Workers. > > > > The Feudalism of the Police continued unchecked through the decades as > did that of the Revenue Officers. They were truly the soldiers of the > interconnected Feudal Empires. > > > > Interestingly, those who should have been the rebels against such > Feudalism themselves succumbed to it and we got the Feudalism of the > Students. > > > > One could give other examples, but what is common to any such Feudalism > and Fiefdomism is the abuse of Rights, Authority and Power in the safe > assumption that India seriously lacks in Accountability and Environment for > Justice and Delivery of Justice. (Will not expand on that. I am sure it is > not needed) > > > > Senior students in an educational institution or the teaching faculty are > a part of similar feudal structures in their areas of operation and > influence. They find themselves because of their position, as being formally > or informally vested with, not only Rights but also Power and Authority > which they find easy to abuse in the absence of Accountability. > > > > My simplistic take. > > > > Kshmendra > > """""""""""""""""""" > > > > Kshmendra > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 8/6/09, asad abbasi wrote: > > > > > > From: asad abbasi > > Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism (2) > > To: reader-list at sarai.net > > Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 7:35 AM > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > Ishtiaq Ahmed, in this article, rejects the view held by some that > feudalism has never existed in South Asia. And doing so, he goes on to > explain the historical and social aspect of this idea. And how Feudalism was > adopted to capture the South Asian essence. How this phenomenon has > neglected people of education, freedom and Justice. He cleverly looks beyond > the single economic aspect of feudalism and talks about the cultural and > social impacts on the society. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Asad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=111680 > > > > In a debate article in the Dawn of April 30, 2008, Haider Nizamani seeks > to dispel the widely held view that feudalism exists in Pakistan. His > asserts that feudalism never existed in South Asia. To consider honour > killings and exploitation of peasants by mighty landlords as indicative of > feudalism he finds untenable because according to him, by 1999, 88 percent > of cultivated land in Pakistan was in farm sizes below 12.5 acres. Just over > half the total farms were less than five acres in size. "This would hardly > be the hallmark of a feudal society," he asserts. > > > > This economistic argument is a legitimate one, but too narrow, mechanical > and formalistic, because it presupposes that if the economic base changes > cultural and ideological changes follow suit. In reality there is never a > perfect fit between a mode of production and cultural and ideological forms, > otherwise the thoroughly capitalised economies of the Middle East would have > no place for tribal norms and behaviour patterns. Marx was acutely aware of > the far more complex relationship between the economic base and the > superstructure. He famously observed that Christian theology remained the > reigning ideology much after classical feudalism had disintegrated and > dissolved. > > > > Classical feudalism emerged in Western Europe when the old city-based > high cultures of the Greeks and the Romans disintegrated and the locus of > social activity moved into local units headed by tiered nobility, which > controlled their serfs through a range of economic and extra-economic > coercions. The feudal vassals, in turn, rendered services to the superior > lords, and that chain of services finally connected to the king, who was > named as the "first among the lords." He claimed a tribute or levy from the > lesser nobles, who also provided him with soldiers. > > > > The above description is, of course, an ideal one in the tradition of Max > Weber. In reality no two feudalisms anywhere in Europe were the same, except > in the essential sense of an agrarian economy providing much of the surplus, > as well as the soldiers upon which the ruling classes built their leisured > lifestyle. > > > > Christian theology justified social hierarchy, and people knew their > place in society – the rule was that the superiors were chosen by God and > obeying them was a duty and obligation. Professions and roles in society > were inherited from father to son. Feudal society was fatalistic, > superstitious and static in relative terms. > > > > Now, in the case of South Asia, striking parallels can be found in the > power structure that prevailed during the pre-colonial period. A maharaja or > emperor at the apex of that order received tribute from a descending but > segmented hierarchy comprising smaller rajas and nawabs, mansabdars and > zamindars and village headmen. They also provided him with soldiers. > > > > The incumbents of land grants under the mansabdari system > (military-feudal order) held their fiefs during the pleasure of the emperor. > Original rights to a fief were largely absent and the king could in > principle expropriate an incumbent at any time. That is why Indian feudalism > was more of an oriental despotism because in Western feudalism even absolute > kings were in principle bound by the law. The mansabdars ruthlessly > exploited the peasants and the other agrarian workforce to extract as much > wealth as possible before their estate was taken away from them. When the > Mogul Empire weakened and the hold of the central government loosened, the > lesser rajas and nawabs asserted their independence, while the mansabdars > became hereditary owners of their estates. > > > > The caste system and the elitist Islam of the Muslim ruling class – both > sanctioned strict hierarchy. The Muslim ruling class, comprising descendants > of Turkish, Afghan, Persian and Arabic origin, until the 19th century did > not start associating with the bulk of the local converts. The threat they > perceived from the rising Hindu middle class that had taken to education, > trade and commerce, forced them to evolve the novel idea of a Muslim nation > comprising all Muslims. > > > > The British perpetuated the dependency of princes, nawabs, rajas and so > on, on the colonial state, but with ample latitude to continue to exploit > the peasants, artisans and other poor working on their estates. In fact the > British most skilfully used land grants to create landlords that would see > to it that protests and rebellion among the people in their areas of > influence were effectively crushed. > > > > At the same time, with regard to Punjab and the NWFP the landlords > compelled their peasants to join the British Indian Army. With the exception > of Pir Sabghatullah Pagaro and some others from Sindh, almost all other pirs > (spiritual leaders) were solid supporters of the British Raj. > > > > Sindhi, Punjabi and Pakhtun Muslims lagged behind the Hindus and Sikhs > because while the latter opened schools the Muslim landlords did not allow > schools to be be established in their domains. Ayub Khuhro and many other > Sindhi leaders were educated in schools established by Hindus. In the late > 1960s, when I was associated with the Mazdoor-Kissan Party of Major Ishaq, > some of our comrades tried to provide free literacy classes to peasants in > the stronghold of the Mazaris and Legharis in southern Punjab. They were > harassed out of those areas. > > > > The land reforms introduced by Ayub Khan and followed by a series of > radical land reforms by Zulfikar Ali Bhutto weakened that class but did not > abolish it. Even now in southern Punjab and interior Sindh that decadent > class exercises considerable political clout and upholds a culture that is > oppressive of women, and the poor in general. > > > > I was horrified when a landlord told me some years ago that all the young > women that came to work on his farm had to provide him with sexual > gratification, otherwise they would not be employed. Bonded labour still > exists, notwithstanding a ban imposed on it by the Supreme Court. > > > > Feudalism in the strict Western sense may never have existed, but its > subcontinental forms during the pre-colonial, colonial and post-colonial > periods were no less harsh and oppressive. Pakistani feudalism may now be in > its death throes, but that is no reason to exonerate it from continuing to > wreck the lives of vast numbers of the rural poor in this region of > peripheral capitalism. > > > > As a cultural and ideological system Pakistani feudalism is a bastion of > conservative values and moribund ideas. The sooner its remaining vestiges > are abolished and a healthy class of peasant proprietors is created, the > better it would be for all of us. In the years ahead we would need to > radically modernise our agricultural sector so that a smaller number of > farmers can produce many times more the food we will need. > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Windows Live Messenger: Thanks for 10 great years—enjoy free winks and > emoticons. > > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/ > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > _________________________________________________________________ > We all see it as it is. But on MSN India, the difference lies in > perspective. > http://in.msn.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > -- Rajen. From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 15:00:42 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 02:30:42 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?Alter-Cin=E9_Foundation_Documentary_?= =?iso-8859-1?q?Film_Grants=3A_Apply_by_Aug_15?= Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Sachi Maniar ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Anush Hayrapetyan Date: Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 11:44 AM Subject: [forgottendiaries] Alter-Ciné Foundation Documentary Film Grants To: forgottendiaries at yahoogroups.com *Alter-Ciné Foundation Documentary Film Grants Deadline Date August 15, 2009* The Alter-Ciné Foundation offers a yearly grant to young film and video makers born and living in Africa, Asia, and Latin America to direct a documentary film on the theme of rights and freedoms, including social and economic rights, women’s rights, the right to culture, and artistic creation. The Foundation will award a grant of CDN$10,000 to a video or filmmaker to assist in the production of a documentary project. The grant is aimed at young video and filmmakers who want to direct a film in the language of their choice that respects the aims of the Foundation. The Foundation particularly supports documentary films that, as stated on their website, "dare to go against the tide, that take the side of the defenceless and question common assumptions by giving a voice to the voiceless, enriching our understanding of the world and helping us reflect on the possibility of changing the world from a perspective of peace, justice, equality and respect for differences." The Alter-Cine Foundation was created in the memory of Canadian filmmaker, Yvan Patry who passed away on October 14 1999. Patry was a co-founder of the production company Alter Ciné and directed numerous documentaries and current affairs programmes in Africa, Latin America, and Asia. Patry’s documentaries, according to the Foundation, have contributed to tearing down walls of silence, denouncing injustice and barbarism, and giving voice to victims of horror. *The deadline for application is August 15 2009.* * To apply, the video/filmmaker must:* 1. complete the Application Form in French, English, or Spanish; 2. include a synopsis in French, English, or Spanish (max. 5 pages) that describes the content, characters, situations, theme, as well as the treatment and style, of the project; 3. send a VHS cassette or a DVD of a completed documentary work. If possible, the cassette should be sub-titled or versioned in French, English, or Spanish. If the work does not exist in any of these three languages, please send a written transcript of the dialogue and narration in one of the three languages. 4. include a production budget for the documentary, as well as a financing plan which includes the Foundation grant and other sources of proposed or assured financing; 5. present two support letters from partners, non-governmental organisations (NGOs), groups, or associations supporting the project. *Contact*: Alter-Ciné Foundation 5371 avenue de l’Esplanade Montréal Québec H2T 2Z8 Canada Tel: 1 514 273 7136 Alter-Ciné website: http://altercine.org/index2.html alter at mlink.net *Yours sincerely,* ** *Anush Hayrapetyan* ** *Youth Action for Change* *Forgotten Diaries Project* *Participants and Local Initiatives Coordinator* http://www.youthactionforchange.org/ http://www.forgottendiaries.org/ ** Mobile: (00374) 99311256 Skype: anushka2112 __,_._,___ From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 15:09:42 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 15:09:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] condemning ban on Charandas Chor In-Reply-To: <341380d00908050307m77a4d473oc60fac3c651b685e@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00908031237o2acdda83i72669b3e06ed43f0@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908032301t2f53b477o8dabf0cd01d63395@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908040625x2a321369m81f9ee44bc3a3277@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908042342x2f070d32s2941762e9eeb38c2@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908050058n42fad067r152220353e1ee588@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908050207u5e740a2bs7e0024708b85d639@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908050307m77a4d473oc60fac3c651b685e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908060239y5d603c45y541d54784255e957@mail.gmail.com> Dear Anupam jee, I enjoy all the plays and dramas, for example, Vijay tendulkars plays, and socially relevant plays, but can not digest the left sponsored part truths passed as absolute truths. as I have seen from inside the full truths of the left fuedal politburo.! As to your accusation, shall we say, give proof.? Regards, Rajen. On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 3:37 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Thanks for sharing this Murali. Here's something I read written by Soumen > De: > > > The Historical Context of *The Bhagavad > Gita* > and Its Relation to Indian Religious Doctrines > > Soumen De > > *The Bhagavad Gita* is > perhaps the most famous, and definitely the most widely-read, ethical text > of ancient India. As an episode in India's great epic, the Mahabharata, > *The > Bhagavad Gita* now ranks as one of the three principal texts that define > and > capture the essence of Hinduism; the other two being the Upanishads and the > Brahma Sutras. Though this work contains much theology, its kernel is > ethical and its teaching is set in the context of an ethical problem. The > teaching of *The Bhagavad Gita* is summed up in the maxim "your business is > with the deed and not with the result." When Arjuna, the third son of king > Pandu (dynasty name: Pandavas) is about to begin a war that became > inevitable once his one hundred cousins belonging to the Kaurava dynasty > refused to return even a few villages to the five Pandava brothers after > their return from enforced exile, he looks at his cousins, uncles and > friends standing on the other side of the battlefield and wonders whether > he > is morally prepared and justified in killing his blood relations even > though > it was he, along with his brother Bhima, who had courageously prepared for > this war. Arjuna is certain that he would be victorious in this war since > he > has Lord Krishna (one of the ten incarnations of Vishnu) on his side. He is > able to visualize the scene at the end of the battle; the dead bodies of > his > cousins lying on the battlefield, motionless and incapable of vengeance. It > is then that he looses his nerve to fight. > > The necessity for the arose because the one hundred cousins of the > Panadavas > refused to return the kingdom to the Pandavas as they had originally > promised. The eldest of the Pandav brothers, Yudhisthir, had lost his > entire > kingdom fourteen years ago to the crafty Kaurava brothers in a game of > dice, > and was ordered by his cousins to go on a fourteen-year exile. The conflict > between the Pandavas and the Kauravas brewed gradually when the Kauravas > refused to return the kingdom to the Panadavas and honor the agreement > after > the fourteen-year exile, and escalated to a full scale war when the > Kauravas > refused to even grant Yudhisthir's reduced demand for a few villages > instead > of the entire kingdom. As the battle is about to begin, Arjuna, himself an > acclaimed warrior, wonders how he could kill his own blood relatives with > whom he had grown up as a child. He puts the battle on hold and begins a > conversation with Krishna, one of the ten but most important incarnations > of > the Universal Hindu God, Vishnu. *The Bhagavad Gita* begins here and ends > with Krishna convincing Arjuna that in the grand scheme of things, he is > only a pawn. The best he could do is do his duty and not question God's > will. It was his duty to fight. In convincing Arjuna, the Lord Krishna > provides a philosophy of life and restores Arjuna's nerve to begin the > battle -- a battle that had been stalled because the protagonist had lost > his nerve and needed time to reexamine his moral values. > > Even though *The Bhagavad Gita* (hereafter referred to as the *Gita*) is > one > of the three principal texts that define the essence of Hinduism, and since > all over the world Hindus chant from the *Gita* during most of their > religious ceremonies, strictly speaking the *Gita* is not one of the Hindu > scriptures. In light of its inseparable links to one of the two great Hindu > epics (Mahabharata and Ramayana) which most Indians hold very dear to their > hearts, and because Krishna, the most venerated and popular of the > incarnations of Lord Vishnu, figures so prominently in it, the *Gita* over > the years has not only become very popular but has ascended to spiritual > heights that are afforded only to the Vedas (and the subsequent > reinterpretive philosophies that followed them) and the Upanishads in the > ancient Indian literature. The concept and symbol of God were extremely > complicated issues (see below) in the ancient Hindu religious literature > prior to the writing of the *Gita*. The notion of God and the paths to > salvation are integral parts of all religions. The manner in which Hinduism > originally dealt with these two fundamental issues was very complex and > appeared to be too speculative at times. This was one of the reasons for > which Buddhism branched out as a separate religion. When Buddhism was > beginning to grow in popularity, Hinduism met with its first challenge: To > provide a clear-cut, easy-to-worship symbol of God to its followers. For a > variety of reasons, Lord Krishna was the obvious choice. Many have even > suggested that it was one of the most pivotal choices ever made by ancient > scholars to `humanize' the concept of God in the Hindu religion. Molded in > the original image of Lord Vishnu, Krishna is an affable Avatar > (reincarnation of God) which for the first time provided concrete > guidelines > for living to all mortals. The average Hindu might not know much about > Brahma, but every one knows who Lord Krishna is. Mahatma Gandhi read the * > Gita* often when he was in seclusion and in prison. > > But, the universal popularity of the *Gita* has not detracted Indian > scholars from deviating from the fundamental truth about Hinduism. The > *Gita > * is not the Hindu scripture even though the literal translation of > "Bhagavad Gita" is "The Song of God". The Nobel laureate Indian poet, > Rabindra Nath Tagore, rarely quoted from the *Gita* in his philosophical > writings; instead, he chose to refer to the Upanishads, to quote from it, > and to use its teachings in his own works. Of course, the teachings of the > Upanishads are included in the *Gita*; they are visible in multiple > chapters > of the *Gita*. The kinetic concepts of karma and yoga, which appeared for > the first time in the Upanishads (explained below), appear repeatedly in > the > *Gita*, often in disguised forms. > > As with almost every religious Indian text, it is difficult to pinpoint > when > exactly the *Gita* was written. Without a doubt, it was written over a > period of centuries by many writers. From the contents of the *Gita*, it is > abundantly clear that both the principal teachings of the Upanishads and of > early Buddhism were familiar to the writers of the *Gita*. So, it has been > approximated that the *Gita* was written during the period > 500 > -200 BCE . Even > though > India is one of the few nations which has a continuous documented history, > very few Indian religious texts exists for which the exact date of > publication is established without controversy. > > *Despite its universal appeal, the Gita is replete with contradictions both > at the fundamental level and at the highest level of philosophical > discourse. To the discerning eye, it would seem that what has been said in > the previous chapter, is contradicted in the very next chapter. This is the > fundamental complaint against the Gita, and this fact would appear to be > ironic given the fact that the Gita was originally written to reconcile the > differences between two of the six major ancient Indian philosophies > (Darshans) that evolved over the early years of Hinduism and became > integral > parts of ancient Indian religious literature. The irony disappears however > when one understands what the Gita purported to achieve at the level of > philosophical and religious discourse. This fact is crucial not only for > the > understanding of the principal themes of the Gita but also to locate the > essence of the Gita in the overall picture of ancient Indian doctrines. The > Gita attempted, for the first time, to reconcile the teachings of two very > abstract Indian religious doctrines into one whole. The task was a > formidable one.* > > The *Gita* tried to include the fundamentals of two ancient Indian > philosophies into one document and reconcile the principal differences > between them. At the outset, one must note that the two doctrines > (Darshans) > were often extremely difficult to understand. Hence the inevitable > contradictions or duality of interpretation. The Six Darshans of ancient > India were actually of differing origin and purpose, but all were brought > into the scheme by being recognized as viable ways of salvation. They were > divided into three groups of two complementary schools of thought > (Darshans) > or doctrines: Nyaya and Vaisesika; Sankhyya and Yoga; and Mimamsha and > Vedanta. *The Bhagavad Gita* attempted to reconcile the Sankhyya philosophy > with those of the Vedanta doctrine. One must note in passing that the > Sankhyya school of thought led to Buddhism while the Vedanta philosophy is > at the root of modern Hinduism. In this article, we are only going to > discuss briefly the two Darshans -- the Sankhyya and the Vedanta -- the * > Gita* attempted to reconcile. > > The Sankhyya is the oldest of the six Darshans while the Vedanta is the > most > important of the six systems. The various subsystems of the Vedanta > doctrine > has led to the emergence of modern intellectual Hinduism. The primary text > of the Vedanta system is the Brahma Sutras, and its doctrines were derived > in great part from the Upanishads, which marked the beginning of Hinduism > as > is understood and practiced today. Even though the Vedas are India's > ancient > sacred texts, modern Hinduism begins with the Vedanta (end of Vedas) and > attains its zenith with the Brahma Sutras. > > The Sankhyya philosophy traces the origins of everything to the interplay > of > Prakriti (nature) and Purusha (the Self, to be differentiated from the > concept of the soul in the latter Indian philosophies). These two separate > entities have always existed and their interplay is at the root of all > reality. The concept of God is conspicuous by its absence. There is no > direct mention of God but only a passing reference as to how one should > liberate himself to attain the realization of Is war (a heavenly entity). A > very significant feature of Sankhyya is the doctrine of the three > constituent qualities (gunas), causing virtue (sattva), passion (rajas), > and > dullness (tamas). On the other hand, the Vedanta school of thought deals > with the concept of Brahman the ultimate reality that is beyond all logic > and encompasses not only the concepts of being and non-being but also all > the phases in between. It is one of the most difficult concepts in the > entire Indian philosophy. At the highest level of truth, the entire > universe > of phenomena, including the gods themselves, was unreal -- the world was > Maya, illusion, a dream, a mirage, a fragment of the imagination. The only > reality is Brahman. > > One can see quite clearly the sources for the *Gita's* contradictions. It > was dealing with not only two widely-differing Darshans but also with two > of > the most abstract philosophical systems. We know that the *Gita* was > written > long after the emergence of modern Hinduism. So it was able to draw on a > wide variety of philosophical themes -- both ancient and relatively modern > by comparison, and often opposing -- still present in modern Hinduism. Yet, > to consolidate the two schools of thoughts proved to be an extremely > difficult task -- a fact which the lyricism of the *Gita*, in the words of > Lord Krishna himself, could not camaflouge. Any serious reader would arrive > at the conclusion that even though the *Gita* mentions the Sankhyya, it > more > or less elaborates on ideas that originated with the Upanishads. > > The fundamental tenets of Hinduism took shape during the period > 800 > -500 BCE . They were > set down in a series of treaties called the Upanishads. The Upanishads > arise > at the end of the Vedas, which earns it the name Veda-anta, which literally > means "end (anta) of the Vedas." Almost all philosophy and religion in > India > rests upon the wealth of speculation contained in these works. The > Upanishads center on the inner realms of the spirit. Encompassing the > meaning of spiritual unity, the Upanishads point directly to the Divine > Unity which pervades all of nature and is identical to the self. > > There are four "kinetic ideas" -- ideas that involve action or motion -- > that represent the core of Indian spirituality. The ultimate objective is > control of the passions and to realize a state of void -- a concept very > similar to that of Buddhism. The four kinetic ideas are "karma, maya, > nirvana, and yoga" and they appear in the *Gita*. But one must remember > that > they appeared for the first time in the Upanishads. A brief summary of the > four ideas are provided below. > > Karma: The law of universal causality, which connects man with the cosmos > and condemns him to transmigrate -- to move from one body to another after > death -- indefinitely. In the *Gita*, Krishna makes an allusion to the > eternal soul that moves from body to body as it ascends or descends the > ladder of a given hierarchy, conditioned on the nature of one's own karma > -- > work of life or life deeds. > > Maya: refers to cosmic illusion; the mysterious process that gives rise to > phenomena and maintains the cosmos. According to this idea, the world is > not > simply what is seems to the human senses -- a view with which the 20th > century western scientists wholly agree. Absolute reality, situated > somewhere beyond the cosmic illusion woven by maya and beyond human > experience as conditioned by karma. Both Tagore, the renowned Indian poet > and Albert Einstein, the famous scientist, agreed on this conclusion. > Absolute reality, in their minds, was beyond human perception. > > Nirvana: The state of absolute blessedness, characterized by release from > the cycle of reincarnations; freedom from the pain and care of the external > world; bliss. Union with God or Atman. Hindus call such mystical union with > ultimate reality as Samandhi or Moksha. > > Yoga: implies integration; bringing all the faculties of the psyche under > the control of the self. Essentially, the object of various types of yoga > is > mind control, and the system lays down the effectual techniques of gaining > liberation and achieving divine union. The word yoga is loosely applied to > any program or technique which leads toward the union with God or Atman. > There are five principal kinds of yoga: Hatha(physical), jnana (the way of > knowledge), bhakti (the way of love), karma (the way of work), and rajah > (mystical experience). > > The Western world's interest in *The Bhagavad Gita* began around the end of > the eighteenth century when the first English translation of the *Gita* was > published. All religious texts of ancient India were written in Sanskrit. > In > November 1784, the first direct translation of a Sanskrit work into English > was completed by Charles Wilkins. The book that was translated was *The > Bhagavad Gita*. Friedreich Max Mueller (1823-1900), the German Sanskritist > who spent most of his working life as Professor of Comparative Philology at > Oxford University, served as the chief editor of the Sacred Books of the > East. (Oxford University Press). The *Gita* was included in this famous > collection. Since then, the *Gita* has become one of the most widely-read > texts of the world. True, there are unexplained contradictions and > paradoxes > in this brief book, but its wide-ranging implications based on the two > ancient Darshans of India and its allegorical meanings are still being > examined and reinterpreted. > > > > On 8/5/09, Murali V wrote: > > > > The Ramayana and Mahabaratha have to be understood in the right > > perspective. Here is one such interpretation of mine which I would like > to > > share. > > > > Mind – The symbolism in GITA > > > > *Bhagavad Gita* is the epic discourse given by Krishna to Arjuna in the > > battle field of Kurukshetra. This base could be very easily > *symbolized*into the > > *mind and the forces involved*. The battle field of *Kurukshetra* could > be > > associated to the *mind or the intellect*. The *two warring forces*, the > * > > Kauravas* and the *Pandavas* needs no superior logic to conclude that the > > *Kauravas represented the evil forces* while the *Pandavas represented > the > > good*, which in turn could be *associated to the bad and good thoughts or > > the negative and positive emotions*. The battle of Kurukshetra could be > > conceptualized to the constant war that takes place within the > mindbetween the evil and good > > thoughts. *Krishna who stands between the two armies is the conscience*. > > > > The concept on which the Bhagavad Gita has come to stay is the fact that > *Arjuna > > starts questioning all the actions* that were going to take place on the > > battlefield and the resultant reactions, to which Krishna gives his > > response. So this is the basis on which, comes the conclusion, that *one > > needs to question oneself within, of all the actions both good and bad > and > > expect answers from ones conscience*. The individual takes the role of > > Arjuna, Krishna acts as ones conscience, the mind is the battlefield of > > Kurukshetra and the actual war is the internal fight taking place within > the > > mind between the negative and positive thoughts. > > > > The result of the Kurukshetra war, in that the good won over the evil > > forces could be ascribed to the fact that Arjuna listened to Krishna and > > acted accordingly. > > > > *Act in accordance with the guidance of ones conscience (Krishna) and one > > is bound to succeed*. > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 1:28 PM, anupam chakravartty >wrote: > > > >> Dear Rajen, > >> > >> I will list these injuctions as a special order from Rajendra Bhat > >> Uppinangadi and use it to my 21st century list of commandments. I am > >> typically interested in this "mind of a woman" bit about your > injunction. > >> where does it come from sir? > >> > >> And offcourse I acknowledge the fact Valmiki had undergone immense > >> transformation to have conjured such words which lead to Ramayana. > >> However, > >> I think you missed the point. If a dacoit transforms and scripts an > epic, > >> why does a particular community have a problem with Guru Ghasidas's > >> depiction? Isnt it an engineered protest? When in several versions of > >> Ramayana and Mahabharata dalits and tribals are represented as > Rakshashas, > >> Mlechas, later "rescued" by their savoirs, Rama or Krishna, there are no > >> objections raised. There is also no objection for Lankans being depicted > >> as > >> demons in Ramayana. Because in a plot certain characters are shown in a > >> light which needs to be understood and contextualised. > >> > >> Dear Rajen, what do you have to say about Chhatisgarh government > conjuring > >> fictitious names farmers to procure paddy? > >> > >> > http://www.indianexpress.com/news/How-Chhattisgarh-fudged-records-for-multi-crore-paddy-scam/488464/ > >> > >> The names they have made up are also from one particular community. > >> > >> Anupam > >> > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi< > >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > >> > Dear Anupam jee, > >> > > >> > Origin of a river, past of an ascetic, mind of a woman are difficult > to > >> > understand, so do not try say the wise. > >> > > >> > > >> > When ramayana was written, the writer was a changed persona, will you > >> > atleast acknowledge that.......! > >> > > >> > Regards, > >> > Rajen. > >> > On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:55 PM, anupam chakravartty < > c.anupam at gmail.com > >> > > >> > wrote: > >> >> > >> >> dear vidya, > >> >> > >> >> Very kind of you to use such words. It shows your knowledge. Rishi > >> Valmiki > >> >> was a dacoit called Ratnakar or Valia Koli. This is from a children's > >> site > >> >> ( > >> >> http://www.bolokids.com/2008/0542.htm) (I am quoting from a > children's > >> >> website because i think you are not matured enough to converse in > this > >> >> forum) > >> >> > >> >> *Dear children, > >> >> > >> >> I am sure you enjoy reading the biographies of the great visionaries > of > >> >> the > >> >> world. The bed-time stories which your parents or grand parents tell > >> you, > >> >> must have some or other reference to the Ramayana, the great epic of > >> >> India. > >> >> Do you know the name of the author of this great piece of writing? In > >> this > >> >> update I shall tell you about that legendary, eminent personality of > >> our > >> >> country, Valmiki. * > >> >> > >> >> Valmiki, universally accepted and applauded as adikavi, the first > among > >> >> the > >> >> poets – in India and particularly in Sanskrit – was the foremost to > >> >> ascertain a metrical expression of epic dimension. He had the > >> apparition > >> >> to > >> >> match the emotional ecstasy of an elevated soul endowed with > compassion > >> >> and > >> >> concern for all living beings. It was in such a state of > identification > >> of > >> >> the human being with the universal that his immortal epic, the > >> Ramayana, > >> >> originated from his heart. > >> >> > >> >> Valmiki born as 'Ratnakar' is a legendary Hindu sage . He was the > tenth > >> >> child of Pracheta. There is a religion based on Valmiki's teachings > and > >> it > >> >> is called Balmikism. The Ramayana consists of 24,001 verses in seven > >> >> cantos > >> >> (kandas) and tells the story of Rama and Sita. Valmiki Ramayana is > >> dated > >> >> variously from 500 BC to 100 BC. > >> >> > >> >> Maharishi Valmiki is accepted by many Indian communities as the > author > >> of > >> >> the Yoga Vasistha, this particular piece of work was taught to Rama > >> when > >> >> he > >> >> was disillusioned with the world in large. The Yoga Vasistha is an > >> >> incredible piece of text which discusses a wide array of philosphical > >> >> issues. Moreover, it appears to have been written over 5000 years > ago. > >> At > >> >> his hermitage he taught both males and females. He gave Sita shelter > >> after > >> >> her banishment from Ayodhya. > >> >> > >> >> The great Valmiki, originally named Ratnakar, was from a Kirata Bhil > >> >> community. Valmiki Muni was from a backward caste community and his > >> name > >> >> before he became the Adi-Kavi (prime poet) who recorded the Ramayana, > >> was > >> >> Vailya. He was trained by the Narada Muni, who is thought to be a > >> devotee > >> >> of > >> >> Vishnu or *Narayana. In another legend that goes, Valmiki, originally > >> >> Valia > >> >> Koli, was a dacoit and a robber who would rob people passing through > >> woods > >> >> and dense forests. He would not only rob out of their possessions but > >> also > >> >> cut their ears and wear them in the form of a chain. One fine day, > >> Narada > >> >> Muni was passing through this forest and Valia Koli happened to > >> confront > >> >> him. Narada Muni asked Valia if he knows what he is doing. Valia > >> replied > >> >> saying that it is this which runs his family and the family is aware > >> about > >> >> it.* Then Narada Muni asked Valia if his family members would share a > >> part > >> >> of a burden of his sins? Valia was so moved with this, he ran back to > >> his > >> >> home and asked every member of his family if they will share if the > >> >> situation demands. No member of the family, neither his wife nor his > >> sons > >> >> replied in assertive. His wife said that the sins Valia is doing > >> everyday > >> >> are part of his life and it is his duty to feed his family and it is > >> only > >> >> he > >> >> who is responsible for the sins he has been committing. Hearing this, > >> >> Valia > >> >> changed himself completely, from a dacoit to a Sage. He returned to > >> Narada > >> >> Muni and requested him to help enlighten himself, after which he > became > >> >> Sage > >> >> Valmiki by penance. > >> >> > >> >> Once Valmiki was taking a stroll on the bank of the river Tamasa > along > >> >> with > >> >> his disciple Bharadwaja. The river-water attracted his concentration. > >> The > >> >> pleasing and composed movement of the waves seemed to remind the > >> prophet > >> >> of > >> >> the mature and the reticent qualities of his hero. He visualized the > >> >> purest > >> >> spark and tranquil of a pious man’s mind reflected in the flowing > >> stream. > >> >> But the very next moment he saw a upsetting panorama of a female bird > >> >> suddenly separated from her partner who was mercilessly shot by a > >> >> malicious > >> >> hunter. He could not bear the contrast he perceived between the > crystal > >> >> clear water reflecting a placid heart and the work of a heartless > >> huntsman > >> >> who shot at the pair of naïve, guiltless birds absorbed in the valid > >> >> gratification of life for no fault of theirs and to no benefit for > him > >> >> moreover. These two incidents had an impression on his mind and his > >> >> creative > >> >> art, which led to his composition of the greatest epic on earth, the > >> >> Ramayana. > >> >> > >> >> It is unfortunate that men of letters know very little about this > fêted > >> >> poet > >> >> worldwide repute except about his epic composition, the Ramayana. The > >> poet > >> >> did not say much about himself in his work nor could history keep any > >> >> documentation and authentic account of his life – not even of the > time > >> he > >> >> lived in. The word Valmika literally means an ant-hill that stands > for > >> >> deep > >> >> meditation in a poised state of penance. Valmiki, the poet, is a > >> product > >> >> of > >> >> this penance. Kalidasa, a great admirer of Valmiki, glorifies this > >> aspect > >> >> in > >> >> his famous line in Meghasandesa.The revelation and the influence of > >> >> Valmiki > >> >> are seen at their best while portraying the character of Sita as an > >> ideal > >> >> woman – a sculpt for reticence, a pictogram of sophisticated > >> simplicity, > >> >> an > >> >> incarnation of elegance and dignity, an austere observer of moral > code > >> of > >> >> behavior, an exceptional paradigm of ultimate love and a singular > >> >> amalgamation of valor and kindness. There are three important > >> characters > >> >> in > >> >> the Ramayana who made significant contribution to the advancement of > >> the > >> >> march of Rama from Ayodhya to Mithila, Kishkindha and Lanka. They are > >> >> Vishwamitra, Lakshmana and Hanuman—and these characters were created > by > >> >> Valmiki with utmost care. > >> >> > >> >> The Ramayana, as envisaged by Valmiki, is a stride in search of man – > a > >> >> man > >> >> whose humanity stands out spirituality by the asset of its > translucent > >> >> transitoriness. Rama, the central figure of this march of cult > presents > >> a > >> >> rare amalgamation of individual decorum and celestial ignite. He kept > >> the > >> >> sparkle to himself and within himself and widen the bouquet of > complete > >> >> love, warmth, concern, restoration and healing to the planet around > >> him. > >> >> These are the vital human values and virtues more accomplished than > >> >> sermonized by Rama, the man of Valmiki’s vision. These traits of the > >> main > >> >> character by their instinctive penchant dominated almost all the > other > >> >> characters in the Ramayana. Good and bad are only virtual terms for a > >> >> great > >> >> soul like Rama. They do not have any unconditional meaning for him > from > >> a > >> >> comprehensive point of view. They can be changed, altered and > converted > >> if > >> >> the human advance is maintained with valor, obligation and kindness. > >> The > >> >> effect of this policy and the values of life finds abundant design > >> >> throughout the Ramayana. > >> >> > >> >> The creative distinction of Valmiki lies in his genuineness in > >> experience > >> >> and ease in expression. There is tenderness in his words, equilibrium > >> in > >> >> his > >> >> emotions and innate glibness in his commentary. He speaks less and > >> makes > >> >> his > >> >> characters articulate for themselves. He has an inherent approach > into > >> the > >> >> soul and a spectacular expertise in restraining the movements and the > >> >> historic actions of his characters. The secret of his success as an > >> epic > >> >> poet of predictive vision lies in his all-absorbing penance or > tapasya > >> and > >> >> unassuming firmness. > >> >> > >> >> The intermediary and the communication are equally imperative for the > >> epic > >> >> poet and Valmiki has accomplished both. He never thought that his > >> sincere > >> >> concern for the pair of birds divided by a cruel shot would result in > >> the > >> >> magnum oeuvre campaigning the basic human qualities like adoration > and > >> >> compassion. It assumed the form of a world classic with a message for > >> each > >> >> era to come and for the entire living beings. Valmiki is revered as > the > >> >> first poet, and the Ramayana, the first kavya. > >> >> > >> >> ENDS > >> >> > >> >> It is a fact that there are several versions of Ramayana written in > >> >> several > >> >> languages. Infact, the Prime Minister in waiting L.K. Advani has > >> written > >> >> about Valmiki: http://lkadvani.in/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5792 > >> >> My point here is not to cite Ramayana or the mythological stories > >> around > >> >> its > >> >> creation. My problem lies with the fact, how a play is being banned > >> >> selectively by the Chattisgarh government by making tribals as the > >> >> scapegoat. Just like how many other opportunists operate in that area > >> >> and cash in on that tribal sentiment. > >> >> > >> >> -with regards > >> >> anupam > >> >> > >> >> On 8/4/09, Vidya wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > He was just one of the writers of ramayana. and when he wrote it he > >> was > >> >> > not > >> >> > a dacoit you ignonramus ass hole. That he was a dacoit is also not > >> >> > proved by > >> >> > any reliable sources. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "anupam chakravartty" < > >> >> > c.anupam at gmail.com> > >> >> > To: "sarai list" > >> >> > Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 2:01 AM > >> >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] condemning ban on Charandas Chor > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > The Chattisgarh government perhaps doesnt realise that mythological > >> >> > epic, > >> >> >> Ramayana was written by a dacoit. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On 8/4/09, prakash ray wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> Press Release condemning ban on Charandas Chor: > >> >> >>> We are shocked to learn from press reports that the BJP > government > >> of > >> >> >>> Chhattisgarh has banned Charandas Chor, a classic of the modern > >> Indian > >> >> >>> theatre, written and produced by Habib Tanvir. The play was first > >> done > >> >> >>> in > >> >> >>> the 1970s, and is originally based on an oral folk tale from > >> >> >>> Rajasthan. > >> >> >>> Habib Tanvir worked on this tale, introducing into it elements of > >> the > >> >> >>> art > >> >> >>> and beliefs of the Satnami community. Satnami singers and dancers > >> have > >> >> >>> performed in this play, and it has been seen by members of the > >> >> >>> community > >> >> >>> several times. In Chhattisgarh and Madhya Pradesh, there are > >> several > >> >> >>> rural > >> >> >>> troupes who are today performing some version of this play. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> The play itself is the story of a thief who, under the influence > of > >> a > >> >> >>> guru, > >> >> >>> pledges never to tell a lie. He sticks to his pledge, even at the > >> cost > >> >> >>> of > >> >> >>> his life. This superb tragic-comedy, in a thoroughly entertaining > >> and > >> >> >>> artistic manner, brings into focus the moral and ethical > >> degeneration > >> >> >>> of > >> >> >>> our > >> >> >>> society, in which, paradoxically, it is a thief who ends up being > >> more > >> >> >>> honest than those who supposed to be the custodians of our > >> morality. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> Charandas Chor remains Habib Tanvir’s best-known play, and has > been > >> >> >>> performed literally hundreds of times by his world-renowned Naya > >> >> >>> Theatre > >> >> >>> troupe all over India and in several countries across the world. > It > >> >> >>> was > >> >> >>> made > >> >> >>> into a film by Shyam Benegal, with Smita Patil in the lead, in > >> 1975, > >> >> >>> and > >> >> >>> was > >> >> >>> the first Indian play to win the prestigious Fringe First award > at > >> the > >> >> >>> Edinburgh Theatre Festival in 1982. It then did a successful run > on > >> >> >>> the > >> >> >>> London stage. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> We demand that the Chhattisgarh government immediately revoke > this > >> >> >>> absurd > >> >> >>> ban. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> Arvind Gaur > >> >> >>> Brijesh > >> >> >>> Govind Deshpande > >> >> >>> Javed Malick > >> >> >>> Madangopal Singh > >> >> >>> M.K. Raina > >> >> >>> Moloyashree Hashmi > >> >> >>> N.K. Sharma > >> >> >>> Shahid Anwar > >> >> >>> Sudhanva Deshpande > >> >> >>> Vivan Sundaram > >> >> >>> Wamiq Abbasi > >> >> >>> Act One Theatre Group > >> >> >>> Asmita Theatre Group > >> >> >>> Bahroop Art Group > >> >> >>> Jana Natya Manch > >> >> >>> Jan Sanskriti > >> >> >>> Janvadi Lekhak Sangh > >> >> >>> Sahmat > >> >> >>> _________________________________________ > >> >> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >> >>> Critiques & Collaborations > >> >> >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > >> >> >>> subscribe in the subject header. > >> >> >>> To unsubscribe: > >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >> _________________________________________ > >> >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >> >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> >> >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> >> >> To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> _________________________________________ > >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Rajen. > >> > > >> > > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 15:11:46 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 15:11:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Human Mind and the Sea In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908050218n758cd887m234550495ab5910@mail.gmail.com> References: <4eab87870908050218n758cd887m234550495ab5910@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908060241sb674d2bk61e9540cf32bfe83@mail.gmail.com> Many can not even dream out coming out from the well they are in.! Regards, Rajen. On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 2:48 PM, Murali V wrote: > As I watched the sea on several occasions, I wondered how it revealed its > emotions and was caught in a very intriguing comparison with the mind. > > The sea can be compared to the human mind. Just like the various states of > mind, the sea also has its days when it is turbulent while there are times > when it is extremely calm and tranquil. > > The times when the sea in its ugliest form revealed by high tides lashing > the shores, nobody dare venture near it. People stay away. Compare this > when > the sea is calm and friendly; people gather near the shores enjoying the > cool pleasant touch of the waves. > > The internal turbulence and turmoil or the calm serenity of the mind is > visible for others to judge. > > Think and relate the similar states of the human mind with the reactions of > the society. I am sure the people will react much the same way as they > would > with the sea. An individual in a turbulent state of mind would react in a > very nasty manner, because of the fact that he/she is not able to control > the emotions, results in people staying away from the individual. An > individual who is calm and balanced, definitely is much more friendly, > acceptable and approachable. There is warmth and pleasantries creating an > atmosphere of togetherness. > > However there is a difference, which if understood, will benefit the > individual and the society. The various states of the sea cannot be > controlled, while the human mind is definitely controllable. This ability > to > control ones emotions differentiates the ordinary from exceptional. > > Let us all try to control our emotions, especially the turbulent ones and > do > not vent our feelings externally, which will only affect our relationship > with others. Warmth and camaraderie will make the society a peaceful haven. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 15:16:35 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 15:16:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India tells UNICEF to stop nutrition relief aid In-Reply-To: References: <695090.98608.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <7271ec560908042329r3c340f1ex72469cb192e8ab84@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908060246veff50ddtc20197492846c213@mail.gmail.com> Rakesh jee, for me morning starts at quite an early time, newspapers of the day are first, then a cup of coffee.I do not watch tv much, once at 8 am then again at 10 pm., because they waste their 24 x 7 with just four lead stories and repeat the same whole day and night. And the news papers that i read are Deccan herald, New Indian express, my childhood companion,DNA and Tmes of India in print versions. I am not good at cut and paste jobs, sorry. Regards, Rajen. On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Rajen jee > > I am not an expert in that field. I thought you may have read that on the > net. Anyways, I will try to search it and put it on this forum when I can. > > Thanks for the information. And what we need in today's media is constant > groping of our govt on this issue. It's only on constant attacks that our > system responds, and while the concept of reform is good, it's too long term > to leave things as status-quo. I seriously believe journalists and others on > this forum should try to get articles on food and such items published on > front pages, and let TV media also look at this issue for a change. That's > all which is required to get things moving to a certain extent. > > After all, if we don't try to solve our problems, who will come on our > behalf? > > Regards > > Rakesh > -- Rajen. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 15:52:17 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 15:52:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India tells UNICEF to stop nutrition relief aid In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908060246veff50ddtc20197492846c213@mail.gmail.com> References: <695090.98608.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <7271ec560908042329r3c340f1ex72469cb192e8ab84@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908060246veff50ddtc20197492846c213@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Rajen Well, doesn't matter. You can tell me the newspaper, and I will try to put up the article on SARAI Reader list if I can Regards Rakesh From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 16:10:47 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 16:10:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India tells UNICEF to stop nutrition relief aid In-Reply-To: References: <695090.98608.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <7271ec560908042329r3c340f1ex72469cb192e8ab84@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908060246veff50ddtc20197492846c213@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908060340i2c4d82e3s22940fd1e7c37d9c@mail.gmail.com> Rakesh jee, the write up by Shri. Kuladeep Nayyar had been on Deccan Herald, 3rd or 4thAug, in the editorial page write up, as main article. Regards, Rajen. On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 3:52 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Rajen > > Well, doesn't matter. You can tell me the newspaper, and I will try to put > up the article on SARAI Reader list if I can > > Regards > > Rakesh > -- Rajen. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 16:12:07 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 16:12:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908060221w23601a44l2eb91573209e0af7@mail.gmail.com> References: <532801.99584.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <341380d00908060038y748b4ae6l8849209ef821b0c5@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908060221w23601a44l2eb91573209e0af7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Anupam jee I agree with you that there are good people in all parties who would never want a riot or genocide at all in India. And what's more, there are bad people in all parties as well, who would like to see that step being taken for electoral purposes. But my understanding of the BJP also comes from the ideology and the RSS to which they attribute their ideology, by and large. While as per the Constitution, every political party has to adhere to the norm of ensuring that India is a 'secular, sovereign, socialist, democratic republic', in practice these norms are flouted in different measures and degrees by various political parties, while being in and out of power. The problem as I see it with the BJP is that they are unwilling to accept that the ideological basis upon which their vision of India is premised, it itself wrong and incorrect. The age before Islamic invasion may have seen scientific and other discoveries, but to term it as the Golden Age is far-fetched. While the RSS tends to glorify Hinduism, it's ironic that the two greatest rulers of India, were non-Hindu (Ashoka and Akbar). By 'greatest', I mean that they at some point of time in their life, realized that violence is futile and against the principle of human rights. What's more, in some measure they did allow democratization of the polity. (Democracy doesn't only mean elections and legislature. It means discussion and hearing every section of the society, which they both allowed in some measure. Ashoka turned to Buddhism and went on this path, while Akbar made secularism into state policy, way before Nehru. It's ironical that like Nehru, Akbar was attacked for 'appeasing Hindus'.) The RSS, when it states that minorities must live based on goodwill of the majority community, by definition, deny the right of minorities to exist in India on a dignified basis. And this, to a certain extent, is understood by our minorities, as also those who suffer because of the violence unleashed by the Sangh Parivar organizations in one form or the other (be it desecration of statues of Jesus Christ, or those involved in Mangalore pub attack whose ideological basis is also derived from the Sangh). The BJP, as I see it, came to power predominantly because it aligned with political parties, all of which were anti-Congress, and most of which came into being to provide an answer to the disgruntled people of this country, who wished to know what had the Congress rule given to them in the 40 years of their rule. Of course, other political parties also made use of it, but what it did was significantly unleash the forces of caste and religion into the mainstream of Indian politics, as also the use of development as an instrument thanks to the anti-incumbency factor. Also, I said the loss of BJP may be based on certain factors, one of which is existence of peace. However, that is not always necessary or true. If the Congress or the UPA does what the NDA did (and to be honest enough, yes the NDA did do good in certain sectors, but my problem is with their concept of using revenues only for growth, and this growth was 'jobless growth'), then it will be kicked out in the most surprising way. Even Vajpayee, the Bhishma Pitamah of Indian politics, was unable to avoid his being kicked out, and was too little in the face of complexities of Indian politics. Ironically, he himself had advised his party to be austere in their campaigning. And it was thrown to the dustbin. Then what is Manmohan Singh in front of the public? However, this does not mean that if UPA actually unleashes the public schemes, it will come back to power. It may not. But if it does nothing for the people, then it certainly will not come back, because people will not feel satisfied enough to vote for it. And peace in that case is not going to help them at all. That's why I said, if the Congress rules badly, they should be prepared for a defeat under their mascot Rahul Gandhi. As for coalition politics, I consider it important because these parties do have a vote bank behind them, and certain voters who can switch over to or away from them, depending on circumstances. They can and may determine the course of Indian politics in various ways. And elections are the most toothless way of proving a govt.'s accountability to the people, because you may not be responsive and accountable, and yet you may actually win the election, because of certain other reasons. That is the beauty of the election. So, it's not the media houses, but the complexity of Indian politics, which makes me say that BJP will have inded a tough time to come back to power. Of course, another matter is that if they do come back, they don't even know who among them will become a PM, which seemed to be the primary concern for them in 2009 elections. Regards Rakesh From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 6 16:12:58 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 03:42:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Left imprisoned in the past : Amartaya Sen Message-ID: <895838.27986.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> This will be an interesting interview.   Apart from his comments on the Indian "Left", Amartaya Sen also comments on the "Anti-American" platform dear to some.   Promo-extracts of the interview:   - http://www.ndtv.com/news/videos/video_player.php?id=1142323   - might be easier accessed at http://www.tubaah.com/details.php?video_id=95580   Kshmendra   From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 16:19:12 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 16:19:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Deccan Herald Article By Kuldip Nayar Message-ID: DEATH OF IDEALISM Shameful media *When we slanted news and accepted money for putting across a point of view during the elections, we fell from professional standards.* The other day there was a seminar in Delhi about the allegations that during the Lok Sabha elections both the print and electronic media not only took money from political parties and candidates, but also extorted as much as they could. Human Resources Development Minister Kapil Sibal, who inaugurated the session, contended that ‘they’ knew how the stories were planted and paid for. Several journalists also admitted that a lot of money changed hands during the election campaign. Nothing came out of the seminar, but a senior political leader told me that if a commission were to be set up to inquire into such dubious practices, he for one would be prepared to give evidence. It came as a shock to me when I did not find even a word about the seminar or Sibal’s allegation in newspapers or television. Obviously, we are all naked together in this bath. Some of us have, however, approached the Press Council to set up a committee to go into the slush money used during campaign. The Election Commission has also been tapped unofficially to find its response. One member said that if payments could be proved, the EC would consider them as the expenses of candidates. * New development* Such charges were also made during the last Lok Sabha election. But then the quantum of payment was small and the number of newspapers and TV channels involved was limited. This time it seems there has been a free for all. Names of leading newspapers and TV channels are hawked about in the bazaars. Even otherwise, the press in India has humiliated itself since the Emergency. With the exception of very few newspapers and journalists, others caved in by pressure or for a price. L K Advani made an apt remark after the Emergency: “You were asked to bend, but you began to crawl.” Since then the mystique of journalism has been lessening by the day and now the media has been reduced to tittle-tattle. Celebrities from the cine world or cricket are the only personalities that count where the media is concerned. Newspapers copy the TV channels in sensation and the latter in turn copy the newspapers in pontificating. I must admit that I found journalists in Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka had more gumption than people in our media. Pakistan had martial law and the journalists defied it and got lashes. In India the Emergency at best could detain people in jail. Still, we failed shamefully. True, politicians tend to use us. They have their own interests to serve. But then we play into their hands. When we slanted the news and accepted money for putting across a particular point of view during the recent Lok Sabha elections, we were not truthful and fell from professional standards expected in a democratic structure. After reading newspapers or watching TV channels I feel as if a new version of the Emergency is starting to unfold where truth has become a relative term and there is nothing left like values. India is not a banana republic run by and for opportunists who will stop at nothing to line their own pockets and wield power. We have a great heritage. Mahatma Gandhi sent his message through a weekly, ‘Harijan’. Nehru said at the All India Newspaper Editors’ Conference in 1950: “I have no doubt that even if the government dislikes the liberties taken by the press and considers them dangerous, it is wrong to interfere with the freedom of the press. I would have a completely free press with all the dangers involved in the wrong use of that freedom than a suppressed or regulated press.” He feared high handedness on the part of the establishment, but little did he realise that one day the danger to the press will be from within, not without. Journalists themselves will offer their heads on a plate in return for position, pelf and privilege. Those who choose to bend their knees in this ignoble way should consider whether they also want to be held responsible for passing on them to the next generation. Where is the idealism gone? Once the profession attracted the best and the brightest who saw that they would be in the midst of challenges facing the society. They wanted to combat parochialism, archaic ideas, bullying by power brokers and anything that could be construed as threatening the common man. Take newspapers and TV channels today. They avoid debates on issues. They present a point of view of their own or of the vested interests. They deny a voice to those who do not tally with their bias or prejudice. In fact, they are the most undemocratic species talking in the name of democracy. What kind of country do they want? At what are their sights set? Is it only entertainment? If so, they should not associate their publications with the press. Not long ago two reporters from the ‘Washington Post’ challenged the President of the United States (Richard Nixon), ultimately forcing him to resign because he had lied to the nation. I am not suggesting that the press in the West is ideal. We saw how the whole Western media sold itself to their respective governments during the Iraq war. The embedded journalists who could only report what they were allowed were worse than our journalists in the Emergency. When a journalist ceases to be a journalist and compromises, he brings down not only the ideals of the profession, but tells upon the democratic temperament and the ethos of the nation. I feel sorry the points made at the seminar in Delhi were not debated by the society. But I feel more disappointed over the attitude of journalists and politicians who know that there is a problem of lessening integrity, yet they prefer to sweep it under the carpet. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 6 16:29:31 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 03:59:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] "JK NAP will begin its mass agitation tomorrow." Message-ID: <150761.6489.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> The info is reproduced as circulated by the organisation.   Kshmendra   1.  United Agitations starts tomorrow A large scale protest begins tomorrow from (POK) and all over the world for the release of Liquat Hayyat president JKNAP and JKNSF prisoned persons arrested on 19th July 2009 over a controversial resolution of ACCESSION WITH PAKISTAN was observed as a black day in POK. Sinc 19th July Pakistani agenices (ISI and others) local police and puppet POK govt. are harassing over the top leadership of JKNSF +JKNAP. That agitation called by all the parties believed in an independent Kashmir. The protest will begin tomorrow and abroad as well.Until the release of political prisoners in POK. IC JKNAP   2. Press Release JKNSF (POK) PRESS RELEASE: August 4, 2009. The agitation against the arrested comrades of JKNSF and JKNAP continues in the Pakistani occupied Kashmir, here in Rawalakot and other districts of POK. The comrades of JKNAP and JKNSF are gathering their full power for the LONG MARCH, towards Rawalakot on 06th of Aug 2009, while the protest continues police raided to arrest two more workers of JKNSF from Thorar (Rawalakot) Illegally namely Afaq and Ahsan from their houses today evening but the workers managed to escape for the site. The president of JKNSF has said that this protest will continued until all the imprisoned workers are not released, we will show our full strength on 06th of Aug at Rawalakot, the puppet Govt. of POK can’t stop our voices for Independent Socialist and Democratic Jammu Kashmir. By, Atif Junoo Chairman Publicity Board. JK NSF 3.  Jammu Kashmir National Awami party ( JK NAP) and JK NSF announced mass agitations against illegal arrest of JK NAP central president and its activists along with JK NSF students leaders in POK city Rawalakot.   Mass agitation wil begin tomorrow August 6Th, 2009, it has announced by JK NAP central secretary General Abdul Sattar Khan advocate in a press conference in Bagh city. JK NAP and JK NSF leaders have announced that tomorrow August 6Th, will be second phase of this agitation and it will continue as long JK NAP , JK NSF leaders are not released unconditionally from detention center in POK city Rawalakot.   It has been announced that JK NAP, JK NSF caravans will begin long march towards Rawalakot city after holding demonstrations in all district headquarters.  JK NAP secretary general demanded that JK NAP and JK NSF leaders and activists must release immediately, otherwise mass agitations will continue. He said that our protests have been peaceful and we keep all demos peaceful and warn local administration that do not intimidate with our workers on behalf of Pakistani secret state agencies because it will be your failure not secret agencies, if there will be law and order situation created.   JK NAP leaders also welcome all pro- independence parties, most of them have announced that they will also participate in this mass agitation with JK NAP and extended full support to our party. JK NAP leaders told the press that there was no need to keep our leaders and activists in Jail that much longer time with out any violation of state law, it is ISI and Military people who are pressuring local puppet Govt to suppress JK NAP activities because of party,s bold stand against Pakistani state and local administration which has no jurisdiction over the area and only has submissive role to state secret agencies. These secret agencies rule has destroyed fabric of our society and stopped natural growth of Kashmiri society and JK NAP has challenged this unacceptable  state of affairs and that is the sin, its leadership has committed and thrown in to Jail.    International Council JK NAP also initiated its programs and started its protests in different countries, first protest was held in Belgium in front of Pakistani embassy. It was a huge protest in terms of gathering in Brussels city, protesters demanded immediately release of JK NAP president and activists without any delay and they urged international community, human rights organizations that please take up this issue of gross human rights violations in POK area. There is no rule of law, any one can go to Jail even  holding a peaceful demonstration and making a political speech. It is completely against the norms of human society, it never happened in a worse kind of dictatorial regimes.   International Council JK NAP is also urging its members all over the world please begin series of demonstrations in front of Pakistani embassies where ever you can manage it and make Kashmiri diaspora in European countries and kashmiris living to participate in these demos. IC JK NAP members  have been informed  by its council members through different  communication sources in this regards, if any one who has not got demos program please contact your local branch members or organization to find out how to participate in these demos and how organize them. Demonstrations should be held in front of Pakistani embassies and consulates where JK NAP members can bring some people and activists. After Belgium demonstration, UK branch is also preparing to hold protest in front of Pakistani embassies and consulate and UK members are directed here to please contact with your local party officials including IC JK NAP spokesman Nadeem Aslam advocate  to find out further information in this regard.  Issued by, International Council JK NAP. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 16:30:24 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 16:30:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Left imprisoned in the past : Amartaya Sen In-Reply-To: <895838.27986.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <895838.27986.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Indeed. What is likeable about Sen is that unlike the pro-market and anti-market people, Sen tries to look at problems from the 'capabilities' approach and tries to bring a balance of the two which can maximize capabilities. That would indeed be great for our people. And that is what we should look at. From c.anupam at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 16:40:23 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 16:40:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] condemning ban on Charandas Chor In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908060239y5d603c45y541d54784255e957@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00908031237o2acdda83i72669b3e06ed43f0@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908032301t2f53b477o8dabf0cd01d63395@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908040625x2a321369m81f9ee44bc3a3277@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908042342x2f070d32s2941762e9eeb38c2@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908050058n42fad067r152220353e1ee588@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908050207u5e740a2bs7e0024708b85d639@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908050307m77a4d473oc60fac3c651b685e@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908060239y5d603c45y541d54784255e957@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00908060410p201430f5i760a7c80bed8652f@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rajen, Precisely for which report you would need a proof. Kindly state it clearly. -anupam On 8/6/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi wrote: > > Dear Anupam jee, > > I enjoy all the plays and dramas, for example, Vijay tendulkars plays, and > socially relevant plays, but can not digest the left sponsored part truths > passed as absolute truths. as I have seen from inside the full truths of the > left fuedal politburo.! > As to your accusation, shall we say, give proof.? > Regards, > Rajen. > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 3:37 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > >> Thanks for sharing this Murali. Here's something I read written by Soumen >> De: >> >> >> The Historical Context of *The Bhagavad >> Gita* >> and Its Relation to Indian Religious Doctrines >> >> Soumen De >> >> *The Bhagavad Gita* is >> perhaps the most famous, and definitely the most widely-read, ethical text >> of ancient India. As an episode in India's great epic, the Mahabharata, >> *The >> Bhagavad Gita* now ranks as one of the three principal texts that define >> and >> capture the essence of Hinduism; the other two being the Upanishads and >> the >> Brahma Sutras. Though this work contains much theology, its kernel is >> ethical and its teaching is set in the context of an ethical problem. The >> teaching of *The Bhagavad Gita* is summed up in the maxim "your business >> is >> with the deed and not with the result." When Arjuna, the third son of king >> Pandu (dynasty name: Pandavas) is about to begin a war that became >> inevitable once his one hundred cousins belonging to the Kaurava dynasty >> refused to return even a few villages to the five Pandava brothers after >> their return from enforced exile, he looks at his cousins, uncles and >> friends standing on the other side of the battlefield and wonders whether >> he >> is morally prepared and justified in killing his blood relations even >> though >> it was he, along with his brother Bhima, who had courageously prepared for >> this war. Arjuna is certain that he would be victorious in this war since >> he >> has Lord Krishna (one of the ten incarnations of Vishnu) on his side. He >> is >> able to visualize the scene at the end of the battle; the dead bodies of >> his >> cousins lying on the battlefield, motionless and incapable of vengeance. >> It >> is then that he looses his nerve to fight. >> >> The necessity for the arose because the one hundred cousins of the >> Panadavas >> refused to return the kingdom to the Pandavas as they had originally >> promised. The eldest of the Pandav brothers, Yudhisthir, had lost his >> entire >> kingdom fourteen years ago to the crafty Kaurava brothers in a game of >> dice, >> and was ordered by his cousins to go on a fourteen-year exile. The >> conflict >> between the Pandavas and the Kauravas brewed gradually when the Kauravas >> refused to return the kingdom to the Panadavas and honor the agreement >> after >> the fourteen-year exile, and escalated to a full scale war when the >> Kauravas >> refused to even grant Yudhisthir's reduced demand for a few villages >> instead >> of the entire kingdom. As the battle is about to begin, Arjuna, himself an >> acclaimed warrior, wonders how he could kill his own blood relatives with >> whom he had grown up as a child. He puts the battle on hold and begins a >> conversation with Krishna, one of the ten but most important incarnations >> of >> the Universal Hindu God, Vishnu. *The Bhagavad Gita* begins here and ends >> with Krishna convincing Arjuna that in the grand scheme of things, he is >> only a pawn. The best he could do is do his duty and not question God's >> will. It was his duty to fight. In convincing Arjuna, the Lord Krishna >> provides a philosophy of life and restores Arjuna's nerve to begin the >> battle -- a battle that had been stalled because the protagonist had lost >> his nerve and needed time to reexamine his moral values. >> >> Even though *The Bhagavad Gita* (hereafter referred to as the *Gita*) is >> one >> of the three principal texts that define the essence of Hinduism, and >> since >> all over the world Hindus chant from the *Gita* during most of their >> religious ceremonies, strictly speaking the *Gita* is not one of the Hindu >> scriptures. In light of its inseparable links to one of the two great >> Hindu >> epics (Mahabharata and Ramayana) which most Indians hold very dear to >> their >> hearts, and because Krishna, the most venerated and popular of the >> incarnations of Lord Vishnu, figures so prominently in it, the *Gita* over >> the years has not only become very popular but has ascended to spiritual >> heights that are afforded only to the Vedas (and the subsequent >> reinterpretive philosophies that followed them) and the Upanishads in the >> ancient Indian literature. The concept and symbol of God were extremely >> complicated issues (see below) in the ancient Hindu religious literature >> prior to the writing of the *Gita*. The notion of God and the paths to >> salvation are integral parts of all religions. The manner in which >> Hinduism >> originally dealt with these two fundamental issues was very complex and >> appeared to be too speculative at times. This was one of the reasons for >> which Buddhism branched out as a separate religion. When Buddhism was >> beginning to grow in popularity, Hinduism met with its first challenge: To >> provide a clear-cut, easy-to-worship symbol of God to its followers. For a >> variety of reasons, Lord Krishna was the obvious choice. Many have even >> suggested that it was one of the most pivotal choices ever made by ancient >> scholars to `humanize' the concept of God in the Hindu religion. Molded in >> the original image of Lord Vishnu, Krishna is an affable Avatar >> (reincarnation of God) which for the first time provided concrete >> guidelines >> for living to all mortals. The average Hindu might not know much about >> Brahma, but every one knows who Lord Krishna is. Mahatma Gandhi read the * >> Gita* often when he was in seclusion and in prison. >> >> But, the universal popularity of the *Gita* has not detracted Indian >> scholars from deviating from the fundamental truth about Hinduism. The >> *Gita >> * is not the Hindu scripture even though the literal translation of >> "Bhagavad Gita" is "The Song of God". The Nobel laureate Indian poet, >> Rabindra Nath Tagore, rarely quoted from the *Gita* in his philosophical >> writings; instead, he chose to refer to the Upanishads, to quote from it, >> and to use its teachings in his own works. Of course, the teachings of the >> Upanishads are included in the *Gita*; they are visible in multiple >> chapters >> of the *Gita*. The kinetic concepts of karma and yoga, which appeared for >> the first time in the Upanishads (explained below), appear repeatedly in >> the >> *Gita*, often in disguised forms. >> >> As with almost every religious Indian text, it is difficult to pinpoint >> when >> exactly the *Gita* was written. Without a doubt, it was written over a >> period of centuries by many writers. From the contents of the *Gita*, it >> is >> abundantly clear that both the principal teachings of the Upanishads and >> of >> early Buddhism were familiar to the writers of the *Gita*. So, it has been >> approximated that the *Gita* was written during the period >> 500 >> -200 BCE . Even >> though >> India is one of the few nations which has a continuous documented history, >> very few Indian religious texts exists for which the exact date of >> publication is established without controversy. >> >> *Despite its universal appeal, the Gita is replete with contradictions >> both >> at the fundamental level and at the highest level of philosophical >> discourse. To the discerning eye, it would seem that what has been said in >> the previous chapter, is contradicted in the very next chapter. This is >> the >> fundamental complaint against the Gita, and this fact would appear to be >> ironic given the fact that the Gita was originally written to reconcile >> the >> differences between two of the six major ancient Indian philosophies >> (Darshans) that evolved over the early years of Hinduism and became >> integral >> parts of ancient Indian religious literature. The irony disappears however >> when one understands what the Gita purported to achieve at the level of >> philosophical and religious discourse. This fact is crucial not only for >> the >> understanding of the principal themes of the Gita but also to locate the >> essence of the Gita in the overall picture of ancient Indian doctrines. >> The >> Gita attempted, for the first time, to reconcile the teachings of two very >> abstract Indian religious doctrines into one whole. The task was a >> formidable one.* >> >> The *Gita* tried to include the fundamentals of two ancient Indian >> philosophies into one document and reconcile the principal differences >> between them. At the outset, one must note that the two doctrines >> (Darshans) >> were often extremely difficult to understand. Hence the inevitable >> contradictions or duality of interpretation. The Six Darshans of ancient >> India were actually of differing origin and purpose, but all were brought >> into the scheme by being recognized as viable ways of salvation. They were >> divided into three groups of two complementary schools of thought >> (Darshans) >> or doctrines: Nyaya and Vaisesika; Sankhyya and Yoga; and Mimamsha and >> Vedanta. *The Bhagavad Gita* attempted to reconcile the Sankhyya >> philosophy >> with those of the Vedanta doctrine. One must note in passing that the >> Sankhyya school of thought led to Buddhism while the Vedanta philosophy is >> at the root of modern Hinduism. In this article, we are only going to >> discuss briefly the two Darshans -- the Sankhyya and the Vedanta -- the * >> Gita* attempted to reconcile. >> >> The Sankhyya is the oldest of the six Darshans while the Vedanta is the >> most >> important of the six systems. The various subsystems of the Vedanta >> doctrine >> has led to the emergence of modern intellectual Hinduism. The primary text >> of the Vedanta system is the Brahma Sutras, and its doctrines were derived >> in great part from the Upanishads, which marked the beginning of Hinduism >> as >> is understood and practiced today. Even though the Vedas are India's >> ancient >> sacred texts, modern Hinduism begins with the Vedanta (end of Vedas) and >> attains its zenith with the Brahma Sutras. >> >> The Sankhyya philosophy traces the origins of everything to the interplay >> of >> Prakriti (nature) and Purusha (the Self, to be differentiated from the >> concept of the soul in the latter Indian philosophies). These two separate >> entities have always existed and their interplay is at the root of all >> reality. The concept of God is conspicuous by its absence. There is no >> direct mention of God but only a passing reference as to how one should >> liberate himself to attain the realization of Is war (a heavenly entity). >> A >> very significant feature of Sankhyya is the doctrine of the three >> constituent qualities (gunas), causing virtue (sattva), passion (rajas), >> and >> dullness (tamas). On the other hand, the Vedanta school of thought deals >> with the concept of Brahman the ultimate reality that is beyond all logic >> and encompasses not only the concepts of being and non-being but also all >> the phases in between. It is one of the most difficult concepts in the >> entire Indian philosophy. At the highest level of truth, the entire >> universe >> of phenomena, including the gods themselves, was unreal -- the world was >> Maya, illusion, a dream, a mirage, a fragment of the imagination. The only >> reality is Brahman. >> >> One can see quite clearly the sources for the *Gita's* contradictions. It >> was dealing with not only two widely-differing Darshans but also with two >> of >> the most abstract philosophical systems. We know that the *Gita* was >> written >> long after the emergence of modern Hinduism. So it was able to draw on a >> wide variety of philosophical themes -- both ancient and relatively modern >> by comparison, and often opposing -- still present in modern Hinduism. >> Yet, >> to consolidate the two schools of thoughts proved to be an extremely >> difficult task -- a fact which the lyricism of the *Gita*, in the words of >> Lord Krishna himself, could not camaflouge. Any serious reader would >> arrive >> at the conclusion that even though the *Gita* mentions the Sankhyya, it >> more >> or less elaborates on ideas that originated with the Upanishads. >> >> The fundamental tenets of Hinduism took shape during the period >> 800 >> -500 BCE . They were >> >> set down in a series of treaties called the Upanishads. The Upanishads >> arise >> at the end of the Vedas, which earns it the name Veda-anta, which >> literally >> means "end (anta) of the Vedas." Almost all philosophy and religion in >> India >> rests upon the wealth of speculation contained in these works. The >> Upanishads center on the inner realms of the spirit. Encompassing the >> meaning of spiritual unity, the Upanishads point directly to the Divine >> Unity which pervades all of nature and is identical to the self. >> >> There are four "kinetic ideas" -- ideas that involve action or motion -- >> that represent the core of Indian spirituality. The ultimate objective is >> control of the passions and to realize a state of void -- a concept very >> similar to that of Buddhism. The four kinetic ideas are "karma, maya, >> nirvana, and yoga" and they appear in the *Gita*. But one must remember >> that >> they appeared for the first time in the Upanishads. A brief summary of the >> four ideas are provided below. >> >> Karma: The law of universal causality, which connects man with the cosmos >> and condemns him to transmigrate -- to move from one body to another after >> death -- indefinitely. In the *Gita*, Krishna makes an allusion to the >> eternal soul that moves from body to body as it ascends or descends the >> ladder of a given hierarchy, conditioned on the nature of one's own karma >> -- >> work of life or life deeds. >> >> Maya: refers to cosmic illusion; the mysterious process that gives rise to >> phenomena and maintains the cosmos. According to this idea, the world is >> not >> simply what is seems to the human senses -- a view with which the 20th >> century western scientists wholly agree. Absolute reality, situated >> somewhere beyond the cosmic illusion woven by maya and beyond human >> experience as conditioned by karma. Both Tagore, the renowned Indian poet >> and Albert Einstein, the famous scientist, agreed on this conclusion. >> Absolute reality, in their minds, was beyond human perception. >> >> Nirvana: The state of absolute blessedness, characterized by release from >> the cycle of reincarnations; freedom from the pain and care of the >> external >> world; bliss. Union with God or Atman. Hindus call such mystical union >> with >> ultimate reality as Samandhi or Moksha. >> >> Yoga: implies integration; bringing all the faculties of the psyche under >> the control of the self. Essentially, the object of various types of yoga >> is >> mind control, and the system lays down the effectual techniques of gaining >> liberation and achieving divine union. The word yoga is loosely applied to >> any program or technique which leads toward the union with God or Atman. >> There are five principal kinds of yoga: Hatha(physical), jnana (the way of >> knowledge), bhakti (the way of love), karma (the way of work), and rajah >> (mystical experience). >> >> The Western world's interest in *The Bhagavad Gita* began around the end >> of >> the eighteenth century when the first English translation of the *Gita* >> was >> published. All religious texts of ancient India were written in Sanskrit. >> In >> November 1784, the first direct translation of a Sanskrit work into >> English >> was completed by Charles Wilkins. The book that was translated was *The >> Bhagavad Gita*. Friedreich Max Mueller (1823-1900), the German Sanskritist >> who spent most of his working life as Professor of Comparative Philology >> at >> Oxford University, served as the chief editor of the Sacred Books of the >> East. (Oxford University Press). The *Gita* was included in this famous >> collection. Since then, the *Gita* has become one of the most widely-read >> texts of the world. True, there are unexplained contradictions and >> paradoxes >> in this brief book, but its wide-ranging implications based on the two >> ancient Darshans of India and its allegorical meanings are still being >> examined and reinterpreted. >> >> >> >> On 8/5/09, Murali V wrote: >> > >> > The Ramayana and Mahabaratha have to be understood in the right >> > perspective. Here is one such interpretation of mine which I would like >> to >> > share. >> > >> > Mind – The symbolism in GITA >> > >> > *Bhagavad Gita* is the epic discourse given by Krishna to Arjuna in the >> > battle field of Kurukshetra. This base could be very easily >> *symbolized*into the >> > *mind and the forces involved*. The battle field of *Kurukshetra* could >> be >> > associated to the *mind or the intellect*. The *two warring forces*, the >> * >> > Kauravas* and the *Pandavas* needs no superior logic to conclude that >> the >> > *Kauravas represented the evil forces* while the *Pandavas represented >> the >> > good*, which in turn could be *associated to the bad and good thoughts >> or >> > the negative and positive emotions*. The battle of Kurukshetra could be >> >> > conceptualized to the constant war that takes place within the >> mindbetween the evil and good >> > thoughts. *Krishna who stands between the two armies is the >> conscience*. >> > >> > The concept on which the Bhagavad Gita has come to stay is the fact that >> *Arjuna >> > starts questioning all the actions* that were going to take place on the >> > battlefield and the resultant reactions, to which Krishna gives his >> > response. So this is the basis on which, comes the conclusion, that *one >> > needs to question oneself within, of all the actions both good and bad >> and >> > expect answers from ones conscience*. The individual takes the role of >> > Arjuna, Krishna acts as ones conscience, the mind is the battlefield of >> > Kurukshetra and the actual war is the internal fight taking place within >> the >> > mind between the negative and positive thoughts. >> > >> > The result of the Kurukshetra war, in that the good won over the evil >> > forces could be ascribed to the fact that Arjuna listened to Krishna and >> > acted accordingly. >> > >> > *Act in accordance with the guidance of ones conscience (Krishna) and >> one >> > is bound to succeed*. >> > >> > >> > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 1:28 PM, anupam chakravartty > >wrote: >> > >> >> Dear Rajen, >> >> >> >> I will list these injuctions as a special order from Rajendra Bhat >> >> Uppinangadi and use it to my 21st century list of commandments. I am >> >> typically interested in this "mind of a woman" bit about your >> injunction. >> >> where does it come from sir? >> >> >> >> And offcourse I acknowledge the fact Valmiki had undergone immense >> >> transformation to have conjured such words which lead to Ramayana. >> >> However, >> >> I think you missed the point. If a dacoit transforms and scripts an >> epic, >> >> why does a particular community have a problem with Guru Ghasidas's >> >> depiction? Isnt it an engineered protest? When in several versions of >> >> Ramayana and Mahabharata dalits and tribals are represented as >> Rakshashas, >> >> Mlechas, later "rescued" by their savoirs, Rama or Krishna, there are >> no >> >> objections raised. There is also no objection for Lankans being >> depicted >> >> as >> >> demons in Ramayana. Because in a plot certain characters are shown in a >> >> light which needs to be understood and contextualised. >> >> >> >> Dear Rajen, what do you have to say about Chhatisgarh government >> conjuring >> >> fictitious names farmers to procure paddy? >> >> >> >> >> http://www.indianexpress.com/news/How-Chhattisgarh-fudged-records-for-multi-crore-paddy-scam/488464/ >> >> >> >> The names they have made up are also from one particular community. >> >> >> >> Anupam >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi< >> >> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > Dear Anupam jee, >> >> > >> >> > Origin of a river, past of an ascetic, mind of a woman are difficult >> to >> >> > understand, so do not try say the wise. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > When ramayana was written, the writer was a changed persona, will >> you >> >> > atleast acknowledge that.......! >> >> > >> >> > Regards, >> >> > Rajen. >> >> > On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:55 PM, anupam chakravartty < >> c.anupam at gmail.com >> >> > >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> dear vidya, >> >> >> >> >> >> Very kind of you to use such words. It shows your knowledge. Rishi >> >> Valmiki >> >> >> was a dacoit called Ratnakar or Valia Koli. This is from a >> children's >> >> site >> >> >> ( >> >> >> http://www.bolokids.com/2008/0542.htm) (I am quoting from a >> children's >> >> >> website because i think you are not matured enough to converse in >> this >> >> >> forum) >> >> >> >> >> >> *Dear children, >> >> >> >> >> >> I am sure you enjoy reading the biographies of the great visionaries >> of >> >> >> the >> >> >> world. The bed-time stories which your parents or grand parents tell >> >> you, >> >> >> must have some or other reference to the Ramayana, the great epic of >> >> >> India. >> >> >> Do you know the name of the author of this great piece of writing? >> In >> >> this >> >> >> update I shall tell you about that legendary, eminent personality of >> >> our >> >> >> country, Valmiki. * >> >> >> >> >> >> Valmiki, universally accepted and applauded as adikavi, the first >> among >> >> >> the >> >> >> poets – in India and particularly in Sanskrit – was the foremost to >> >> >> ascertain a metrical expression of epic dimension. He had the >> >> apparition >> >> >> to >> >> >> match the emotional ecstasy of an elevated soul endowed with >> compassion >> >> >> and >> >> >> concern for all living beings. It was in such a state of >> identification >> >> of >> >> >> the human being with the universal that his immortal epic, the >> >> Ramayana, >> >> >> originated from his heart. >> >> >> >> >> >> Valmiki born as 'Ratnakar' is a legendary Hindu sage . He was the >> tenth >> >> >> child of Pracheta. There is a religion based on Valmiki's teachings >> and >> >> it >> >> >> is called Balmikism. The Ramayana consists of 24,001 verses in seven >> >> >> cantos >> >> >> (kandas) and tells the story of Rama and Sita. Valmiki Ramayana is >> >> dated >> >> >> variously from 500 BC to 100 BC. >> >> >> >> >> >> Maharishi Valmiki is accepted by many Indian communities as the >> author >> >> of >> >> >> the Yoga Vasistha, this particular piece of work was taught to Rama >> >> when >> >> >> he >> >> >> was disillusioned with the world in large. The Yoga Vasistha is an >> >> >> incredible piece of text which discusses a wide array of >> philosphical >> >> >> issues. Moreover, it appears to have been written over 5000 years >> ago. >> >> At >> >> >> his hermitage he taught both males and females. He gave Sita shelter >> >> after >> >> >> her banishment from Ayodhya. >> >> >> >> >> >> The great Valmiki, originally named Ratnakar, was from a Kirata Bhil >> >> >> community. Valmiki Muni was from a backward caste community and his >> >> name >> >> >> before he became the Adi-Kavi (prime poet) who recorded the >> Ramayana, >> >> was >> >> >> Vailya. He was trained by the Narada Muni, who is thought to be a >> >> devotee >> >> >> of >> >> >> Vishnu or *Narayana. In another legend that goes, Valmiki, >> originally >> >> >> Valia >> >> >> Koli, was a dacoit and a robber who would rob people passing through >> >> woods >> >> >> and dense forests. He would not only rob out of their possessions >> but >> >> also >> >> >> cut their ears and wear them in the form of a chain. One fine day, >> >> Narada >> >> >> Muni was passing through this forest and Valia Koli happened to >> >> confront >> >> >> him. Narada Muni asked Valia if he knows what he is doing. Valia >> >> replied >> >> >> saying that it is this which runs his family and the family is aware >> >> about >> >> >> it.* Then Narada Muni asked Valia if his family members would share >> a >> >> part >> >> >> of a burden of his sins? Valia was so moved with this, he ran back >> to >> >> his >> >> >> home and asked every member of his family if they will share if the >> >> >> situation demands. No member of the family, neither his wife nor his >> >> sons >> >> >> replied in assertive. His wife said that the sins Valia is doing >> >> everyday >> >> >> are part of his life and it is his duty to feed his family and it is >> >> only >> >> >> he >> >> >> who is responsible for the sins he has been committing. Hearing >> this, >> >> >> Valia >> >> >> changed himself completely, from a dacoit to a Sage. He returned to >> >> Narada >> >> >> Muni and requested him to help enlighten himself, after which he >> became >> >> >> Sage >> >> >> Valmiki by penance. >> >> >> >> >> >> Once Valmiki was taking a stroll on the bank of the river Tamasa >> along >> >> >> with >> >> >> his disciple Bharadwaja. The river-water attracted his >> concentration. >> >> The >> >> >> pleasing and composed movement of the waves seemed to remind the >> >> prophet >> >> >> of >> >> >> the mature and the reticent qualities of his hero. He visualized the >> >> >> purest >> >> >> spark and tranquil of a pious man’s mind reflected in the flowing >> >> stream. >> >> >> But the very next moment he saw a upsetting panorama of a female >> bird >> >> >> suddenly separated from her partner who was mercilessly shot by a >> >> >> malicious >> >> >> hunter. He could not bear the contrast he perceived between the >> crystal >> >> >> clear water reflecting a placid heart and the work of a heartless >> >> huntsman >> >> >> who shot at the pair of naïve, guiltless birds absorbed in the valid >> >> >> gratification of life for no fault of theirs and to no benefit for >> him >> >> >> moreover. These two incidents had an impression on his mind and his >> >> >> creative >> >> >> art, which led to his composition of the greatest epic on earth, the >> >> >> Ramayana. >> >> >> >> >> >> It is unfortunate that men of letters know very little about this >> fêted >> >> >> poet >> >> >> worldwide repute except about his epic composition, the Ramayana. >> The >> >> poet >> >> >> did not say much about himself in his work nor could history keep >> any >> >> >> documentation and authentic account of his life – not even of the >> time >> >> he >> >> >> lived in. The word Valmika literally means an ant-hill that stands >> for >> >> >> deep >> >> >> meditation in a poised state of penance. Valmiki, the poet, is a >> >> product >> >> >> of >> >> >> this penance. Kalidasa, a great admirer of Valmiki, glorifies this >> >> aspect >> >> >> in >> >> >> his famous line in Meghasandesa.The revelation and the influence of >> >> >> Valmiki >> >> >> are seen at their best while portraying the character of Sita as an >> >> ideal >> >> >> woman – a sculpt for reticence, a pictogram of sophisticated >> >> simplicity, >> >> >> an >> >> >> incarnation of elegance and dignity, an austere observer of moral >> code >> >> of >> >> >> behavior, an exceptional paradigm of ultimate love and a singular >> >> >> amalgamation of valor and kindness. There are three important >> >> characters >> >> >> in >> >> >> the Ramayana who made significant contribution to the advancement of >> >> the >> >> >> march of Rama from Ayodhya to Mithila, Kishkindha and Lanka. They >> are >> >> >> Vishwamitra, Lakshmana and Hanuman—and these characters were created >> by >> >> >> Valmiki with utmost care. >> >> >> >> >> >> The Ramayana, as envisaged by Valmiki, is a stride in search of man >> – a >> >> >> man >> >> >> whose humanity stands out spirituality by the asset of its >> translucent >> >> >> transitoriness. Rama, the central figure of this march of cult >> presents >> >> a >> >> >> rare amalgamation of individual decorum and celestial ignite. He >> kept >> >> the >> >> >> sparkle to himself and within himself and widen the bouquet of >> complete >> >> >> love, warmth, concern, restoration and healing to the planet around >> >> him. >> >> >> These are the vital human values and virtues more accomplished than >> >> >> sermonized by Rama, the man of Valmiki’s vision. These traits of the >> >> main >> >> >> character by their instinctive penchant dominated almost all the >> other >> >> >> characters in the Ramayana. Good and bad are only virtual terms for >> a >> >> >> great >> >> >> soul like Rama. They do not have any unconditional meaning for him >> from >> >> a >> >> >> comprehensive point of view. They can be changed, altered and >> converted >> >> if >> >> >> the human advance is maintained with valor, obligation and kindness. >> >> The >> >> >> effect of this policy and the values of life finds abundant design >> >> >> throughout the Ramayana. >> >> >> >> >> >> The creative distinction of Valmiki lies in his genuineness in >> >> experience >> >> >> and ease in expression. There is tenderness in his words, >> equilibrium >> >> in >> >> >> his >> >> >> emotions and innate glibness in his commentary. He speaks less and >> >> makes >> >> >> his >> >> >> characters articulate for themselves. He has an inherent approach >> into >> >> the >> >> >> soul and a spectacular expertise in restraining the movements and >> the >> >> >> historic actions of his characters. The secret of his success as an >> >> epic >> >> >> poet of predictive vision lies in his all-absorbing penance or >> tapasya >> >> and >> >> >> unassuming firmness. >> >> >> >> >> >> The intermediary and the communication are equally imperative for >> the >> >> epic >> >> >> poet and Valmiki has accomplished both. He never thought that his >> >> sincere >> >> >> concern for the pair of birds divided by a cruel shot would result >> in >> >> the >> >> >> magnum oeuvre campaigning the basic human qualities like adoration >> and >> >> >> compassion. It assumed the form of a world classic with a message >> for >> >> each >> >> >> era to come and for the entire living beings. Valmiki is revered as >> the >> >> >> first poet, and the Ramayana, the first kavya. >> >> >> >> >> >> ENDS >> >> >> >> >> >> It is a fact that there are several versions of Ramayana written in >> >> >> several >> >> >> languages. Infact, the Prime Minister in waiting L.K. Advani has >> >> written >> >> >> about Valmiki: http://lkadvani.in/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5792 >> >> >> My point here is not to cite Ramayana or the mythological stories >> >> around >> >> >> its >> >> >> creation. My problem lies with the fact, how a play is being banned >> >> >> selectively by the Chattisgarh government by making tribals as the >> >> >> scapegoat. Just like how many other opportunists operate in that >> area >> >> >> and cash in on that tribal sentiment. >> >> >> >> >> >> -with regards >> >> >> anupam >> >> >> >> >> >> On 8/4/09, Vidya wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > He was just one of the writers of ramayana. and when he wrote it >> he >> >> was >> >> >> > not >> >> >> > a dacoit you ignonramus ass hole. That he was a dacoit is also not >> >> >> > proved by >> >> >> > any reliable sources. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "anupam chakravartty" < >> >> >> > c.anupam at gmail.com> >> >> >> > To: "sarai list" >> >> >> > Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 2:01 AM >> >> >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] condemning ban on Charandas Chor >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > The Chattisgarh government perhaps doesnt realise that >> mythological >> >> >> > epic, >> >> >> >> Ramayana was written by a dacoit. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 8/4/09, prakash ray wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> Press Release condemning ban on Charandas Chor: >> >> >> >>> We are shocked to learn from press reports that the BJP >> government >> >> of >> >> >> >>> Chhattisgarh has banned Charandas Chor, a classic of the modern >> >> Indian >> >> >> >>> theatre, written and produced by Habib Tanvir. The play was >> first >> >> done >> >> >> >>> in >> >> >> >>> the 1970s, and is originally based on an oral folk tale from >> >> >> >>> Rajasthan. >> >> >> >>> Habib Tanvir worked on this tale, introducing into it elements >> of >> >> the >> >> >> >>> art >> >> >> >>> and beliefs of the Satnami community. Satnami singers and >> dancers >> >> have >> >> >> >>> performed in this play, and it has been seen by members of the >> >> >> >>> community >> >> >> >>> several times. In Chhattisgarh and Madhya Pradesh, there are >> >> several >> >> >> >>> rural >> >> >> >>> troupes who are today performing some version of this play. >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> The play itself is the story of a thief who, under the influence >> of >> >> a >> >> >> >>> guru, >> >> >> >>> pledges never to tell a lie. He sticks to his pledge, even at >> the >> >> cost >> >> >> >>> of >> >> >> >>> his life. This superb tragic-comedy, in a thoroughly >> entertaining >> >> and >> >> >> >>> artistic manner, brings into focus the moral and ethical >> >> degeneration >> >> >> >>> of >> >> >> >>> our >> >> >> >>> society, in which, paradoxically, it is a thief who ends up >> being >> >> more >> >> >> >>> honest than those who supposed to be the custodians of our >> >> morality. >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> Charandas Chor remains Habib Tanvir’s best-known play, and has >> been >> >> >> >>> performed literally hundreds of times by his world-renowned Naya >> >> >> >>> Theatre >> >> >> >>> troupe all over India and in several countries across the world. >> It >> >> >> >>> was >> >> >> >>> made >> >> >> >>> into a film by Shyam Benegal, with Smita Patil in the lead, in >> >> 1975, >> >> >> >>> and >> >> >> >>> was >> >> >> >>> the first Indian play to win the prestigious Fringe First award >> at >> >> the >> >> >> >>> Edinburgh Theatre Festival in 1982. It then did a successful run >> on >> >> >> >>> the >> >> >> >>> London stage. >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> We demand that the Chhattisgarh government immediately revoke >> this >> >> >> >>> absurd >> >> >> >>> ban. >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> Arvind Gaur >> >> >> >>> Brijesh >> >> >> >>> Govind Deshpande >> >> >> >>> Javed Malick >> >> >> >>> Madangopal Singh >> >> >> >>> M.K. Raina >> >> >> >>> Moloyashree Hashmi >> >> >> >>> N.K. Sharma >> >> >> >>> Shahid Anwar >> >> >> >>> Sudhanva Deshpande >> >> >> >>> Vivan Sundaram >> >> >> >>> Wamiq Abbasi >> >> >> >>> Act One Theatre Group >> >> >> >>> Asmita Theatre Group >> >> >> >>> Bahroop Art Group >> >> >> >>> Jana Natya Manch >> >> >> >>> Jan Sanskriti >> >> >> >>> Janvadi Lekhak Sangh >> >> >> >>> Sahmat >> >> >> >>> _________________________________________ >> >> >> >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> >> >>> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> >> >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith >> >> >> >>> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> >> >>> To unsubscribe: >> >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >> >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/ >> > >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith >> >> >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe: >> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Rajen. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> > >> > >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > Rajen. > > > From lawrence at altlawforum.org Thu Aug 6 17:21:30 2009 From: lawrence at altlawforum.org (Lawrence Liang) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 17:21:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] condemning ban on Charandas Chor In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908060239y5d603c45y541d54784255e957@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00908031237o2acdda83i72669b3e06ed43f0@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908032301t2f53b477o8dabf0cd01d63395@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908040625x2a321369m81f9ee44bc3a3277@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908042342x2f070d32s2941762e9eeb38c2@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908050058n42fad067r152220353e1ee588@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908050207u5e740a2bs7e0024708b85d639@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908050307m77a4d473oc60fac3c651b685e@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908060239y5d603c45y541d54784255e957@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: In the context of the current banning of CDC, here is an article by Siddharth Narrain on the Dramatic Performances Act from Seminar He concludes by asking What is the feasibility of staging a fresh legal challenge to the DPA? Can detailed documentation of how the DPA has been used post-independence in India be used by theatre groups to mount a fresh legal challenge to the dramatic performances act? Can a legal challenge serve as a point of mobilization for a campaign around the issue of theatre censorship? Can such an attempt at mobilization change the dominant narrative of pre-censorship in India, which in the main has revolved around cinema? Can theatre learn from the experience of documentary filmmakers, whose campaign against censorship has in many ways, revitalized the form of the documentary in India? http://www.india-seminar.com/2008/588/588_siddharth_narrain.htm IN 1970 the play* *‘Gidh’ (Vulture), directed by Shiram Lagoo and produced by Satyadev Dubey’s theatre company was at the centre of a controversy in Maharashtra, eliciting strong reactions both for and against. The play was based on a Vijay Tendulkar script called ‘Gidhade’*. *The Censor Board asked for around 150 cuts, mostly because it found the language unacceptable. The producers, however, decided to go ahead with the play, without the censor certificate.1 The Maharashtra Censor Board summoned the producers when it realized that the play was being staged without the cuts they had asked for. * * *Member of Censor Board (M1)*: Is it true that you are doing the play without a single cut recommended? * * *Dubey*: Yes M1: Why? Dubey: Those cuts are not acceptable to us. Member of Censor Board (M2): Then why didn’t you say so? We could have had a discussion about it. Dubey: We had no idea this was possible. M1: Well, it is. M2: The Board will meet in another three months time to decide the matter. Dubey: In this period though, there are some 15-20 shows of the play lined up. What about them? M1: No problem. You can go ahead with the play. But you will not get the final certificate before a formal decision is taken. So the play continued, uncensored. After a delay of several months, the Board finally cleared the play with three cuts. Two related to specific words. For instance, the Board objected to a brother calling his sister a ‘whore’. The third cut was visual. The brothers beat up the sister, resulting in her foetus being aborted. She appears with a blood red spot on her sari. The Board felt that this was much too graphic. Incidentally, none of these cuts were part of the original 150 cuts suggested. Dubey then decided that since the Censor Board had objected to the use of a red spot on the sari, he would instead use a blue spot. So the spot remained, and in the advertisements of the play, spectators were asked to imagine that the blue spot was red.2 Besides illustrating Borges’ famous phrase, ‘censorship is the mother of metaphor’, this anecdote also illustrates the ironic character of theatre censorship. Censorship of theatre is on the basis of the script and does not involve the censors actually seeing the stage performance. What does a mechanism of censorship that does not take into account the idea of performance do to the way in which a play is produced? * * *L*egal researcher Lawrence Liang has drawn upon the work of Annette Kuhn to argue that censorship can also be looked upon as a ‘productive’ act. By productive Liang does not mean positive or beneficial, but in terms of viewing and viewing power as being formative or constitutive – which is to say that the law, for instance, not only describes an external reality, but through the description of it, also constitutes it. When the law states what a work of art is, for example, it is not merely defining the work of art as an external reality, an always already-existing idea of art, but also constituting, through this definition, the outer limits of what art can actually be. The history of the theatre censorship regime in India can be traced to the Dramatic Performances Act (DPA), a legislation originally enacted in 1876 to stifle criticism of British rule. This legislation was enacted in response to a number of plays on the oppressive condition of indigo workers in Bengal staged in the 1870s. These plays caused a lot of anxiety among the British. The most famous of these was a play called ‘Nil Darpan’ (The Indigo Mirror) staged in 1875. * * *A*t one of the performances, the European spectators disrupted the play when an Indian character attacked the actor playing the British planter who assaults an Indian actress playing the part of the wife of an indigo labourer. Nandi Bhatia has pointed out that the incident around ‘Nil Darpan’ shows that the British feared that the performative aspects of such cultural production could further aggravate existing tensions, given drama’s interactive relationship with its viewers. While the staged act demanded recognition of colonial abuse, the reaction of European spectators represented anxieties around the ability of theatre to incite audiences. ‘Nil Darpan’, thus is a turning point in the history of anti-colonial theatre in India. Post 1870, theatre assumed a pivotal political role. The British reacted by passing the Dramatic Performances Censorship Act (DPA) in 1876 just before the official transfer of power from the East India Company to the Crown. The DPA performed the function of regulating public drama/theatre performances, thus leading to widespread censorship and suppression by the colonial government over the next five decades. Theatre has a long history of being used as a tool for mobilizing people, both by the anti-colonial movement pre-independence, and by progressive groups subsequently. Even post-independence, the DPA remains in place, and has been used in numerous instances to suppress any criticism of the nation-building project, is just one among a host of legislations that survived British rule, retained to address the anxieties of the new nation state. Under the DPA the government is empowered to prohibit a play if the performance is deemed scandalous or defamatory in nature; if it is likely to excite ‘feelings of disaffection towards the government’ or to ‘deprave and corrupt’ the audience. It gives the police the power to enter a house with a warrant and seize material that is suspected of having been used, or is intended to be used for a performance. The act gives state governments the power to prohibit dramatic performances within an area unless a copy of the script is furnished to a designated officer at least three days before it is staged. The idea of the police as theatre critics has a near Borgesian quality, bordering on the fantastic but real enough to be used extensively. The history of the DPA thus can be narrated as the dark underbelly of the history of theatre in the country. Theatre practitioners like Sudhanva Deshpande have pointed out that in Delhi, while theatre groups have to seek police permission as well as a tax exemption certificate from the entertainment tax authorities, censorship – where every play script is minutely scrutinized – is not strictly followed. In some states like Maharashtra and Gujarat, however, ordinary theatre groups routinely face censorship, every time they have to perform inside an auditorium. * * *I*n 1965, the Indian People’s Theatre Association challenged the order of an Additional District Magistrate prohibiting the staging of the play because necessary permission had not been obtained. The Allahabad High Court examined the constitutional validity of the DPA. The government contended that the play was distorted to suit the political ideology of those accused, and that they (the producers) had failed to obtain requisite licenses and abide by the government’s prohibitory notice. In the event, while quashing the order of the magistrate the court noted the alarming tendency of the executive to stifle all opposition; it also held that the procedural provisions of the act were unconstitutional. Simultaneously the court conceded that the substantive provisions of the act were both reasonable and necessary, even as the power given to the magistrate under this act was arbitrary. It observed, ‘Incidentally, this prosecution demonstrates that there are no adequate and reasonable safeguards against an abuse of power by the executive authority in the Dramatic Performances Act.’ * * *T*he court also justified precensorship in theatre, saying, ‘The written word takes a long time to reach its readers, but the spoken word is conveyed to the audience immediately. The written word can be confiscated before it has done much damage, but the spoken word achieves its object as soon as it is uttered. The spoken word is also far more inflammable and can engender heat and excite passions in a far quicker manner and thus can become a such greater danger (sic) to the security of the community. ‘There is also finality about the written word, but the spoken word can be disputed and denied. These and other differences make it necessary that in the interests of public order and security, the state should have some power to deal in an emergent manner with the spoken word. The Dramatic Performances Act, 1876 is such a preventive measure.’ Censorship of theatre by the state is only one form of censorship operating today. The banning of the Marathi play ‘Ghasiram Kotwal’ because of objections from the Marathi Brahmin community that their community had been depicted as licentious and the Maratha hero Nana Phadanvis was depicted in an unflattering manner, has been widely regarded as the beginning of a virulent form of censorship from the Hindu right wing. In July 1998, the issue of censorship of theatre in India became the subject of worldwide attention when angry protestors prevented the staging of the play ‘Mi Nathuram Godse Boltoy’, leading to the Maharashtra government banning the play following the advice of the Congress government at the Centre. * * *I*n May 2000, the Bombay High Court in an important decision indicated that judicial opinion on the issue of theatre censorship is changing. The court stayed an order by the police commissioner prohibiting an ‘emoted reading’ of the play before private audience in Thane in a programme organized by the Hindu Manch. The court in its decision read forms of literary endeavour to be part of the right to life enshrined in the Constitution. ‘Article 21 today protects these legitimate activities which make life meaningful and impart to the quality of life a dimension beyond a mere physical existence. Forms of literary endeavour are therefore, within the protection of the right to life under Article 21. Coupled with this is the right of the wider society and the community to know, to receive information and be informed. ‘The right to information, or the right to know is an intrinsic facet of the right to life under Article 21 of the Constitution. An informed citizenry must have the means to receive news and information, and apart from this, to receive thoughts, perceptions and ideas. Those perceptions and viewpoints may not be in conformity with widely held social, economic and political beliefs. A diversity of viewpoint promotes an ability on the part of the society to exercise a right of choice, a right to decide and the right to form perceptions which lie at the core of the functioning of a democratic system. ‘…No society is static and a vibrant judicial interpretation of the right to life and personal liberty has been hallmark of constitutional jurisprudence in the last two decades or more… If popular perceptions, as perceived by the state, are to be an index of the freedom of those engaged in the fine arts, culture or literary activity, the work of the author and the artist would be reduced to little else but its husk.’ Taking the aspect of the ‘productive’ powers of censorship, how does law, through its interaction with theatre, create a ‘legal theory of theatre’? Can looking at censorship as a reconstitutive moment help reconfigure our understanding of the idea of power itself – reconfigure it away from the traditional sites, especially the institutional prohibitive sites, and help shift focus on the diverse and diffuse ways in which it actually operates? * * *W*hat is the feasibility of staging a fresh legal challenge to the DPA? Can detailed documentation of how the DPA has been used post-independence in India be used by theatre groups to mount a fresh legal challenge to the dramatic performances act? Can a legal challenge serve as a point of mobilization for a campaign around the issue of theatre censorship? Can such an attempt at mobilization change the dominant narrative of pre-censorship in India, which in the main has revolved around cinema? Can theatre learn from the experience of documentary filmmakers, whose campaign against censorship has in many ways, revitalized the form of the documentary in India? * Footnotes: * 1. This incident was quoted by Sudhanva Deshpande in a presentation on ‘Censorship and Theatre’ at the Films for Freedom seminar, New Delhi, 2-4 September 2004. 2. *Supra* note 1. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Aug 6 17:26:22 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 12:56:22 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Smart Cards in J&K In-Reply-To: <5c5369880908060030k7b3dbfe1wf0d5c6bf303f5e94@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c5369880908060030k7b3dbfe1wf0d5c6bf303f5e94@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40908060456q1f6a9868xe08a46625de14ced@mail.gmail.com> Dear Sanjay, Thank you for posting the I-card article on Kashmir. Kashmir is special case when it comes to identity cards. Just as, there are news stories abound, from Kashmir and elsewhere, on the need for having an original identity card, so as, I am sure there will a few stories, from Kashmir and elsewhere, about the presence of fake identity cards. I hope that, we, on the reader list should read few stories from Kashmir which represent the 'counter' narrative of identity, that is, stories about 'fake identity' cards. The reason being, in popular media fake identity cards are constantly linked to the figure of terrorists,especially with respect to Kashmir. Primarily because, the boundaries tend to become slightly fuzzy when it comes to separating a good kashmiri from a bad one, therefore identity cards becomes an important part of the narrative of verification of the self. I think, it would be interesting, for us, to get a sense of this entanglement of concepts like identity, piracy, knowledge, power, and the formation of moral/social/cultural/regional self. The identity equation generally allows for a simple construction of good and bad citizen, like, fake identity (may tends towards, one being a ) terrorist/illegal immigrant v/s real identity (maynot tends towards, one being a) terrorist/illegal immigrant One of the claims of proponents of MNIC/UID is that terrorism will gradually fade away post MNIC. Further more digital cards being touted as a kind of anti poverty measure too. I wonder, how much of the above equation represents the reality in Kashmir and elsewhere? Warm regards Taha From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 17:50:30 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 17:50:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Deccan Herald Article By Kuldip Nayar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7271ec560908060520s96242d0i1acfa3cdf03a5684@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh jee, thanks a lot. Regards, Rajen. On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 4:19 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > DEATH OF IDEALISM Shameful media > *When we slanted news and accepted money for putting across a point of view > during the elections, we fell from professional standards.* > The other day there was a seminar in Delhi about the allegations that > during the Lok Sabha elections both the print and electronic media not only > took money from political parties and candidates, but also extorted as much > as they could. Human Resources Development Minister Kapil Sibal, who > inaugurated the session, contended that ‘they’ knew how the stories were > planted and paid for. > > Several journalists also admitted that a lot of money changed hands during > the election campaign. Nothing came out of the seminar, but a senior > political leader told me that if a commission were to be set up to inquire > into such dubious practices, he for one would be prepared to give evidence. > > It came as a shock to me when I did not find even a word about the seminar > or Sibal’s allegation in newspapers or television. Obviously, we are all > naked together in this bath. Some of us have, however, approached the Press > Council to set up a committee to go into the slush money used during > campaign. The Election Commission has also been tapped unofficially to find > its response. One member said that if payments could be proved, the EC > would > consider them as the expenses of candidates. > * > New development* > > Such charges were also made during the last Lok Sabha election. But then > the > quantum of payment was small and the number of newspapers and TV channels > involved was limited. This time it seems there has been a free for all. > Names of leading newspapers and TV channels are hawked about in the > bazaars. > > Even otherwise, the press in India has humiliated itself since the > Emergency. With the exception of very few newspapers and journalists, > others > caved in by pressure or for a price. L K Advani made an apt remark after > the > Emergency: “You were asked to bend, but you began to crawl.” Since then the > mystique of journalism has been lessening by the day and now the media has > been reduced to tittle-tattle. > > Celebrities from the cine world or cricket are the only personalities that > count where the media is concerned. Newspapers copy the TV channels in > sensation and the latter in turn copy the newspapers in pontificating. > > I must admit that I found journalists in Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka > had more gumption than people in our media. Pakistan had martial law and > the > journalists defied it and got lashes. In India the Emergency at best could > detain people in jail. Still, we failed shamefully. > > True, politicians tend to use us. They have their own interests to serve. > But then we play into their hands. When we slanted the news and accepted > money for putting across a particular point of view during the recent Lok > Sabha elections, we were not truthful and fell from professional standards > expected in a democratic structure. > > After reading newspapers or watching TV channels I feel as if a new version > of the Emergency is starting to unfold where truth has become a relative > term and there is nothing left like values. India is not a banana republic > run by and for opportunists who will stop at nothing to line their own > pockets and wield power. > > We have a great heritage. Mahatma Gandhi sent his message through a weekly, > ‘Harijan’. Nehru said at the All India Newspaper Editors’ Conference in > 1950: “I have no doubt that even if the government dislikes the liberties > taken by the press and considers them dangerous, it is wrong to interfere > with the freedom of the press. I would have a completely free press with > all > the dangers involved in the wrong use of that freedom than a suppressed or > regulated press.” > > He feared high handedness on the part of the establishment, but little did > he realise that one day the danger to the press will be from within, not > without. Journalists themselves will offer their heads on a plate in return > for position, pelf and privilege. Those who choose to bend their knees in > this ignoble way should consider whether they also want to be held > responsible for passing on them to the next generation. > > Where is the idealism gone? Once the profession attracted the best and the > brightest who saw that they would be in the midst of challenges facing the > society. They wanted to combat parochialism, archaic ideas, bullying by > power brokers and anything that could be construed as threatening the > common > man. > > Take newspapers and TV channels today. They avoid debates on issues. They > present a point of view of their own or of the vested interests. They deny > a > voice to those who do not tally with their bias or prejudice. In fact, they > are the most undemocratic species talking in the name of democracy. What > kind of country do they want? At what are their sights set? Is it only > entertainment? If so, they should not associate their publications with the > press. > > Not long ago two reporters from the ‘Washington Post’ challenged the > President of the United States (Richard Nixon), ultimately forcing him to > resign because he had lied to the nation. I am not suggesting that the > press > in the West is ideal. We saw how the whole Western media sold itself to > their respective governments during the Iraq war. The embedded journalists > who could only report what they were allowed were worse than our > journalists > in the Emergency. > > When a journalist ceases to be a journalist and compromises, he brings down > not only the ideals of the profession, but tells upon the democratic > temperament and the ethos of the nation. I feel sorry the points made at > the > seminar in Delhi were not debated by the society. But I feel more > disappointed over the attitude of journalists and politicians who know that > there is a problem of lessening integrity, yet they prefer to sweep it > under > the carpet. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 17:53:01 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 17:53:01 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Deccan Herald Article By Kuldip Nayar In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908060520s96242d0i1acfa3cdf03a5684@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560908060520s96242d0i1acfa3cdf03a5684@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908060523q12e5a6f8s66f7c17a9d8d2e8a@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, do we not see this happening in our day to day life and the interaction of tv shows.? "When a journalist ceases to be a journalist and compromises, he brings down not only the ideals of the profession, but tells upon the democratic temperament and the ethos of the nation. I feel sorry the points made at the seminar in Delhi were not debated by the society. But I feel more disappointed over the attitude of journalists and politicians who know that there is a problem of lessening integrity, yet they prefer to sweep it under the carpet." Regards, Rajen. ______ On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 5:50 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > > Dear Rakesh jee, > thanks a lot. > > Regards, > > Rajen. > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 4:19 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > >> DEATH OF IDEALISM Shameful media >> *When we slanted news and accepted money for putting across a point of >> view >> during the elections, we fell from professional standards.* >> The other day there was a seminar in Delhi about the allegations that >> during the Lok Sabha elections both the print and electronic media not >> only >> took money from political parties and candidates, but also extorted as >> much >> as they could. Human Resources Development Minister Kapil Sibal, who >> inaugurated the session, contended that ‘they’ knew how the stories were >> planted and paid for. >> >> Several journalists also admitted that a lot of money changed hands during >> the election campaign. Nothing came out of the seminar, but a senior >> political leader told me that if a commission were to be set up to inquire >> into such dubious practices, he for one would be prepared to give >> evidence. >> >> It came as a shock to me when I did not find even a word about the seminar >> or Sibal’s allegation in newspapers or television. Obviously, we are all >> naked together in this bath. Some of us have, however, approached the >> Press >> Council to set up a committee to go into the slush money used during >> campaign. The Election Commission has also been tapped unofficially to >> find >> its response. One member said that if payments could be proved, the EC >> would >> consider them as the expenses of candidates. >> * >> New development* >> >> Such charges were also made during the last Lok Sabha election. But then >> the >> quantum of payment was small and the number of newspapers and TV channels >> involved was limited. This time it seems there has been a free for all. >> Names of leading newspapers and TV channels are hawked about in the >> bazaars. >> >> Even otherwise, the press in India has humiliated itself since the >> Emergency. With the exception of very few newspapers and journalists, >> others >> caved in by pressure or for a price. L K Advani made an apt remark after >> the >> Emergency: “You were asked to bend, but you began to crawl.” Since then >> the >> mystique of journalism has been lessening by the day and now the media has >> been reduced to tittle-tattle. >> >> Celebrities from the cine world or cricket are the only personalities that >> count where the media is concerned. Newspapers copy the TV channels in >> sensation and the latter in turn copy the newspapers in pontificating. >> >> I must admit that I found journalists in Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri >> Lanka >> had more gumption than people in our media. Pakistan had martial law and >> the >> journalists defied it and got lashes. In India the Emergency at best could >> detain people in jail. Still, we failed shamefully. >> >> True, politicians tend to use us. They have their own interests to serve. >> But then we play into their hands. When we slanted the news and accepted >> money for putting across a particular point of view during the recent Lok >> Sabha elections, we were not truthful and fell from professional standards >> expected in a democratic structure. >> >> After reading newspapers or watching TV channels I feel as if a new >> version >> of the Emergency is starting to unfold where truth has become a relative >> term and there is nothing left like values. India is not a banana republic >> run by and for opportunists who will stop at nothing to line their own >> pockets and wield power. >> >> We have a great heritage. Mahatma Gandhi sent his message through a >> weekly, >> ‘Harijan’. Nehru said at the All India Newspaper Editors’ Conference in >> 1950: “I have no doubt that even if the government dislikes the liberties >> taken by the press and considers them dangerous, it is wrong to interfere >> with the freedom of the press. I would have a completely free press with >> all >> the dangers involved in the wrong use of that freedom than a suppressed or >> regulated press.” >> >> He feared high handedness on the part of the establishment, but little did >> he realise that one day the danger to the press will be from within, not >> without. Journalists themselves will offer their heads on a plate in >> return >> for position, pelf and privilege. Those who choose to bend their knees in >> this ignoble way should consider whether they also want to be held >> responsible for passing on them to the next generation. >> >> Where is the idealism gone? Once the profession attracted the best and >> the >> brightest who saw that they would be in the midst of challenges facing the >> society. They wanted to combat parochialism, archaic ideas, bullying by >> power brokers and anything that could be construed as threatening the >> common >> man. >> >> Take newspapers and TV channels today. They avoid debates on issues. They >> present a point of view of their own or of the vested interests. They deny >> a >> voice to those who do not tally with their bias or prejudice. In fact, >> they >> are the most undemocratic species talking in the name of democracy. What >> kind of country do they want? At what are their sights set? Is it only >> entertainment? If so, they should not associate their publications with >> the >> press. >> >> Not long ago two reporters from the ‘Washington Post’ challenged the >> President of the United States (Richard Nixon), ultimately forcing him to >> resign because he had lied to the nation. I am not suggesting that the >> press >> in the West is ideal. We saw how the whole Western media sold itself to >> their respective governments during the Iraq war. The embedded journalists >> who could only report what they were allowed were worse than our >> journalists >> in the Emergency. >> >> When a journalist ceases to be a journalist and compromises, he brings >> down >> not only the ideals of the profession, but tells upon the democratic >> temperament and the ethos of the nation. I feel sorry the points made at >> the >> seminar in Delhi were not debated by the society. But I feel more >> disappointed over the attitude of journalists and politicians who know >> that >> there is a problem of lessening integrity, yet they prefer to sweep it >> under >> the carpet. >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Rajen. > > -- Rajen. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Aug 6 17:57:56 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:27:56 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Banks ready to help in unique ID project- 185 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908060527q6db6d252ie881f1bf616b14e2@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, MV Nair, chairman of Indian Banks Association, will help Nandu, in distributing the UIN numbers- this is the view which presented by ET story below. However, it must be borne in mind that, that much of what we see in IBA helping Nandu, has come up after a long process of thinking. Please have a look at the introductory note on MNIC and banking, which was prepared for a workshop held between members of IBA and The Institute for Development and Research in Banking Technology. This workshop was called 'OPEN STANDARDS FOR FINANCIAL INCLUSION. The workshop was held at 'Centrum', 1st Floor, Centre 1,World Trade Centre Complex, Cuffe Parade, Mumbai between, 5-6 February 2009. Just to give you a sense of what is IDRBT, please have look at the literature provided by them- 'The major technology initiatives of the Institute include the nationwide communication backbone for the Banking Industry – the INdian FInancial NETwork (INFINET); establishing the Certifying Authority (CA) and issuing digital certificates for the Banking and Financial Sector; developing and implementing the secure, Structured Financial Messaging System (SFMS) for free flow of financial messages across the industry and connecting most of the ATMs in the country through the National Financial Switch (NFS).' The work shop had a special focus on MNIC and financial inclusion. As the note suggests- 'Most card-based solutions provide or extend the functionality of the ATM transaction set (operated manually by means of the Business Correspondent). The basic magnetic stripe card carries information in its Track 2 that is used for financial transactions.Smart-card based solutions extend this and offer a wide range of choices in terms of interfaces (contact/contactless), memory capacities,operating systems and protocols for communication between the card and the terminal. As of now, there is no standard relating to data format specifying the account details that the card has to carry nor a standard card of a specified size. The terminal capability (and the printer type whether thermal or impact printer) also needs to be addressed.' The following measures were suggested- 'How to achieve all above (from the experience of Driving License, MNIC, ePassport etc.) Smart Card Technology Standardization: The Technology specifications of Smart Card must be standardized and should be based upon the open source. In case of all above projects, Government has notified SCOSTA standards to be used. Following projects and respective ministries have mandated SCOSTA as smart card standard. Driving License and Vehicle RC Card , Ministry of Shipping, Road Transport and Highways. Multipurpose National ID Card (MNIC) Min. of Home Affairs. ePassport, Ministry of External Affairs Rashtriya Swasthya Bima Yojna (RSBY), Min. of Labour. National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme (NREGS), Ministry of Rural Development/ Department of Post. Public Distribution System (PDS), Ministry of food and Civil Supplies. Again the issue of interpoerability came up and was addressed as thus- Interoperability – the technological design of the system and its functionality. The key issue is whether or not the mobile scheme is essentially a proprietary system embedded in the network, equipment and operations of an existing mobile operator or instead stands free of any particular network. Is the service tied to one mobile network operator or is it network-independent? Thus, in the Indian context, there is need for the service providers to ensure interoperability for GSM and CDMA customers to have mobile transactions. Please read the story below for more. Warm regards Taha http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News-By-Industry/Banking-Finance-/Banks-ready-to-help-in-unique-ID-project/articleshow/4861514.cms Banks ready to help in unique ID project 6 Aug 2009, 0130 hrs IST, ET Bureau MUMBAI: Banks are likely to play a vital role in government's initiative to issue unique identification number for every Indian citizen. Speaking to ET, chairman of Indian Banks Association, MV Nair said "IBA will like to work very closely with the government to make this venture successful because eventually banks will be the biggest beneficiaries." Recently, government appointed Nandan Nilekani, former CEO of Infosys, as chairman of Unique Identification Authority of India which will issue UIN. IBA led by Mr Nair is slated to meet Mr Nilekani and other government officials later this week to discuss on how IBA and Unique Identification Authority of India could work closely on this matter. Mr Nair said that the UIN will drastically reduce the paperwork that banks require to do for opening a new account. This is because since 2004 banks are required to verify the identity of the customer which requires them to undertake a vigorous exercise - know your customer (KYC). The KYC exercise involves a lot of paper work to support customers identify. As things stand now, banks have covered over 90% of their customers under the KYC norm. "It would be easier for Unique Identification Authority of India to issue UIN cards to bank account holders since they have already have complied with the KYC norms. This will give them a better start since banks have already collected the data to establish the identify of the account holder," said a general manager in charge of IT in a public sector banks on conditions of anonymity. RBI data shows that banks have nearly 37 crore savings accounts. Even if a large number of these accounts were duplicate (because the a person can have multiple accounts), a huge portion of the account holders would be better positioned for UIN card, if the Unique Identification Authority of India gives them first preference. "It would seem an obvious move to use the UIN card as a payment product. World over governments are using payments products to make payouts such as annuities directly to citizens," said Amrish Rau, vice-president and country manager First Data Corporation — a company that processes financial transactions including those by credit cards. "The way I see it the card could emerge as a payment card linked to a savings account, or it could simply function as a pre-paid instrument where the government credits the account directly. This could be used for various payments including the National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme (NREGS)" he added. Mr Nair, who is also the chairman and managing director of Union Bank of India is of the view that UIN will help banks in achieving financial inclusion and complying in KYC norms. "It will also help in tracking customers credit record and also bring down cost of financial transaction," he said. He further said that it needs to be studied if the "UIN could double up for financial transaction." By this meant whether the UIN card could be operated as a smart card which in turn will reduce the burden of issuing debit cards for the entire banking industry. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 17:44:05 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 17:44:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan In-Reply-To: References: <532801.99584.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <341380d00908060038y748b4ae6l8849209ef821b0c5@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908060221w23601a44l2eb91573209e0af7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908060514h3fc58538ma04357bb3cad5a4e@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Anupam jee > > I agree with you that there are good people in all parties who would never > want a riot or genocide at all in India. And what's more, there are bad > people in all parties as well, who would like to see that step being taken > for electoral purposes. > > But my understanding of the BJP also comes from the ideology and the RSS to > which they attribute their ideology, by and large. While as per the > Constitution, every political party has to adhere to the norm of ensuring > that India is a 'secular, sovereign, socialist, democratic republic', in > practice these norms are flouted in different measures and degrees by > various political parties, while being in and out of power. > > The problem as I see it with the BJP is that they are unwilling to accept > that the ideological basis upon which their vision of India is premised, it > itself wrong and incorrect. The age before Islamic invasion may have seen > scientific and other discoveries, but to term it as the Golden Age is > far-fetched. While the RSS tends to glorify Hinduism, it's ironic that the > two greatest rulers of India, were non-Hindu (Ashoka and Akbar). By > 'greatest', I mean that they at some point of time in their life, realized > that violence is futile and against the principle of human rights. What's > more, in some measure they did allow democratization of the polity. > > (Democracy doesn't only mean elections and legislature. It means discussion > and hearing every section of the society, which they both allowed in some > measure. Ashoka turned to Buddhism and went on this path, while Akbar made > secularism into state policy, way before Nehru. It's ironical that like > Nehru, Akbar was attacked for 'appeasing Hindus'.) > > The RSS, when it states that minorities must live based on goodwill of the > majority community, by definition, deny the right of minorities to exist in > India on a dignified basis. And this, to a certain extent, is understood by > our minorities, as also those who suffer because of the violence unleashed > by the Sangh Parivar organizations in one form or the other (be it > desecration of statues of Jesus Christ, or those involved in Mangalore pub > attack whose ideological basis is also derived from the Sangh). > > The BJP, as I see it, came to power predominantly because it aligned with > political parties, all of which were anti-Congress, and most of which came > into being to provide an answer to the disgruntled people of this country, > who wished to know what had the Congress rule given to them in the 40 years > of their rule. Of course, other political parties also made use of it, but > what it did was significantly unleash the forces of caste and religion into > the mainstream of Indian politics, as also the use of development as an > instrument thanks to the anti-incumbency factor. > > Also, I said the loss of BJP may be based on certain factors, one of which > is existence of peace. However, that is not always necessary or true. If the > Congress or the UPA does what the NDA did (and to be honest enough, yes the > NDA did do good in certain sectors, but my problem is with their concept of > using revenues only for growth, and this growth was 'jobless growth'), then > it will be kicked out in the most surprising way. Even Vajpayee, the Bhishma > Pitamah of Indian politics, was unable to avoid his being kicked out, and > was too little in the face of complexities of Indian politics. Ironically, > he himself had advised his party to be austere in their campaigning. And it > was thrown to the dustbin. Then what is Manmohan Singh in front of the > public? > > However, this does not mean that if UPA actually unleashes the public > schemes, it will come back to power. It may not. But if it does nothing for > the people, then it certainly will not come back, because people will not > feel satisfied enough to vote for it. And peace in that case is not going to > help them at all. That's why I said, if the Congress rules badly, they > should be prepared for a defeat under their mascot Rahul Gandhi. > > As for coalition politics, I consider it important because these parties do > have a vote bank behind them, and certain voters who can switch over to or > away from them, depending on circumstances. They can and may determine the > course of Indian politics in various ways. And elections are the most > toothless way of proving a govt.'s accountability to the people, because you > may not be responsive and accountable, and yet you may actually win the > election, because of certain other reasons. That is the beauty of the > election. o, it's not the media houses, but the complexity of Indian > politics, which makes me say that BJP will have inded a tough time to come > back to power. Of course, another matter is that if they do come back, they > don't even know who among them will become a PM, which seemed to be the > primary concern for them in 2009 elections. > > So, it's not the media houses, but the complexity of Indian politics, which > makes me say that BJP will have inded a tough time to come back to power. Of > course, another matter is that if they do come back, they don't even know > who among them will become a PM, which seemed to be the primary concern for > them in 2009 elections. > > Regards > > Rakesh Dear Rakeshjee, the issue of who will be next PM is not the new factor if and when BJP comes to govern, it was present when Nehru was the PM, and we know that nation saw the best of leadership in Shri. Lal Bahadur Shastri, who became the victim of KGB and Indira in the power game as USSR then eventually wanted their puppet in Delhi and the file is classified one, and unfortunately the persons involved in this misadventure are all dead, but the present ruling dispensation or NDAa did not take the democratic step of declassifying the archive as done in all progressive democracies. "So, it's not the media houses, but the complexity of Indian politics, which makes me say that BJP will have inded a tough time to come back to power. Of course, another matter is that if they do come back, they don't even know who among them will become a PM, which seemed to be the primary concern for them in 2009 elections" is your surmise which is far off the mark, as the same argument is equally relevant for all political parties as voyers do not easily accept the foisted leaders as in early years of the rule. Regards, Rajen.. -- Rajen. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 18:16:25 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 18:16:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Banks ready to help in unique ID project- 185 In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40908060527q6db6d252ie881f1bf616b14e2@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40908060527q6db6d252ie881f1bf616b14e2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: By the way, are the banks considering about paying their taxes on time to help the people in the short term? Or should we go back to barter system to completely annihilate all the major institutions of corruption? From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 18:29:06 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 18:29:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908060514h3fc58538ma04357bb3cad5a4e@mail.gmail.com> References: <532801.99584.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <341380d00908060038y748b4ae6l8849209ef821b0c5@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908060221w23601a44l2eb91573209e0af7@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908060514h3fc58538ma04357bb3cad5a4e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Rajen jee I think the BJP has a tough time to actually adapt itself at an ideological level with the complexities rather than the Congress, which actually doesn't talk a lot about these complexities in most of the cases (on a case-specific basis), and thereby gets the impression of being a party for all. That is why they ironically got some votes from quite a no. of castes in both Uttar Pradesh and Assam, and to a smaller extent in many other states as well, even if they have lost. The BJP won't be in that kind of position. Therefore, the BJP is on a much difficult terrain. And for the NDA regime, it should have thought about these things long back. If they would have taken the steps of introducing the RTI, the NREGA and the RTF then itself, the goodwill it could have gained would have been tremendous. Instead, except for the highways, there are hardly any achievements for which the NDA is known. (Kargil was first an intelligence failure and then a success, that too because of the jawans, not because of our intelligence certainly. As for Godhra and its aftermath, defence scams, UTI scam, PDS failures, Kandahar fiasco, Parliament attacks, and Akshardham attack, as well as POTA and POTO, the record speaks for itself) Secondly, considering the leadership or the PM of India. The PM is an elitist concern for the middle class and the rich corporates. And the reason for this is that if someone like Mayawati, or Mulayam (who are corrupt in their eyes, and I agree here) become the PM, or a tribal (who may be not corrupt at all and may have no accusations against his/her name) becomes the PM, then the person may not fit the image of being a PM in the sense of being someone who the corporate sector and the middle class can be proud of. It's ironic that many people wanted Kalam to get a second term because he fitted the image of a President, while Pratibha Patil didn't. And this is strange because without having tested someone for the President's post, it's difficult to ascertain whether someone fitted the 'image' or not. So I perceive and feel that the middle class has an image problem, and that is not correct because this by definition won't like certain kind of people to become PM. Only a suave, western-educated or western-style adapting person, who looks smart and good when in talks with other PM's, would be liked by this class to be the PM. My larger concern also is that it's not the PM who determines how things go in today's times, but the administration. Even Vajpayee couldn't prevent the Parliament attack,or even Kandahar for that matter, but the point is that even if Prophet Muhammad or Lord Ram were in their place, they would have failed as well because of the Indian administration, the Indian Civil Service and the Indian Police Service, coupled with the other facets of the administration. Therefore, our larger concern should be to reform the administration, not to bicker upon who is the PM. Shastri, I believe, was certainly the People's Man (PM), which is what a PM should be. Manmohan on the other hand, is someone who always has his raga to sing rather than look at issues properly. And of course, he doesn't have the backing to remove 'tainted' ministers from his cabinet, which of course even Vajpayee didn't have. (Vajpayee infact protected them by stating that he had a right to choose his council of ministers.) Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 18:38:18 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 18:38:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Banks ready to help in unique ID project- 185 In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40908060557r6ddb34c0rc0a3441119b23698@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40908060527q6db6d252ie881f1bf616b14e2@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908060557r6ddb34c0rc0a3441119b23698@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Taha I accept your argument on this account, and therefore would be careful to issue statements on this count in future. But at the same time, I completely feel bad when our corporates just want to enjoy subsidies at the cost of public, which I feel is wrong. The govt is first for the common people and not for the rich. The corporates should not be the first concern for any govt. If the corporates have that much of a problem, they are free to leave India and invest elsewhere. After all, it's not that I am against industrialization, nor are others. What we want is following the norms properly. As for the banks, what is the logic of not paying taxes in time? Do they have genuine reasons to do so? And if yes, why not come out in public with those reasons as well? At least be honest enough to accept your mistakes, is what I wish to suggest here. Regards Rakesh In reply to: On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 6:27 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > Dear Rakesh, > > Although I can very well empathize with your view especially given the > fact that almost 1.44 lakh crore rupees are being withheld by > individuals and institutions as tax money but I think, at the same > time, it is important for us to get as clearer a sense of things as we > could, in order to know reality- as it is. > > All we have are these often vague impressions of what is going on. And > from whatever little we have, we can perhaps get a sense of coalescing > information which was hitherto categorized and stored separately. > > This type of data consolidation is unprecedented therefore one needs > to look into the processes of this consolidation carefully, as even, > for instance, schemes like RTF, are going to have a huge impact, as > post consolidation of bank data and identity. > > Warm regards > > Taha > From asad_abbasi at hotmail.com Thu Aug 6 19:16:08 2009 From: asad_abbasi at hotmail.com (asad abbasi) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:46:08 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism (2) In-Reply-To: <314430.17226.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <314430.17226.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Kshmendra and All, The irony of the this issue is that IT KEEPS COMING BACK. Feudalism, how insignificant it may be, has always been there. It, as i see it, is one of the main reasons of class difference and social status that prevails in our society. It reduces a persons capability to break the class barrier and perphaps decrease his/her entitlement. Not only, Fuedalism, can contribute towards greater inequality but it may result in keeping victims of this callous act under the poverty line for rest of their lives. Regards, Asad Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 01:48:17 -0700 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Feudalism (2) To: reader-list at sarai.net; asad_abbasi at hotmail.com Dear Asad Thank you for posting the Ishtiaq Ahmed piece. In a 19/04/09 posting on this List (in a different context) I had written on "feudalism" in India. It is reproduced below. Going through it again (and after reading Ishtiaq Ahmed's piece) I realised, that shockingly, I had shockingly left out "Feudalism of Castes" and "Feudalism of the Elite (remanants of monarchy and its liege). Kshmendra """"""""""""" Dear Shuddha Allow me to share some simplistic thoughts on this. What we see reflected in such instances from educational institutions is the feudalism and fiefdomism that is rooted in almost every aspect of our lives in India. They are in myriad forms but still have all the exploitative aspects that existed a few hundred years back. Feudalism became instutionalised and networked in India during the colonial rule. It admirably served the purpose of both Rule and Revenue. Post 1947, attempts were made to erase out Agricultural Feudalism. There was some success but it continued to some extent through the Benami system. At the same time Feudalism and Fiefdomism saw itself cloned and being employed in various spheres and utilised for purposes of exercising control or exacting monies outside legal domains. Educational Institutions are just one such area. Post 1947, the economic policies that allowed Private Enterprise but gave them some protection against competition led in due course to Feudalism of Business Houses. At the same time, the economic policies of Licence Raj created the Feudalism of the Bureaucracy Ironically, the adoption of Free Market Economy policies in recent years, without appropriate protection for small businesses has again resulted in the Feudalism of Business Houses. While at one time 'workers' suffered exploitative employment, ensuring of Labour Rights in some areas, predominantly Larger Industrial and other enterprises saw the emergence of the Feudalism of the Workers. The Feudalism of the Police continued unchecked through the decades as did that of the Revenue Officers. They were truly the soldiers of the interconnected Feudal Empires. Interestingly, those who should have been the rebels against such Feudalism themselves succumbed to it and we got the Feudalism of the Students. One could give other examples, but what is common to any such Feudalism and Fiefdomism is the abuse of Rights, Authority and Power in the safe assumption that India seriously lacks in Accountability and Environment for Justice and Delivery of Justice. (Will not expand on that. I am sure it is not needed) Senior students in an educational institution or the teaching faculty are a part of similar feudal structures in their areas of operation and influence. They find themselves because of their position, as being formally or informally vested with, not only Rights but also Power and Authority which they find easy to abuse in the absence of Accountability. My simplistic take. Kshmendra """""""""""""""""""" Kshmendra --- On Thu, 8/6/09, asad abbasi wrote: From: asad abbasi Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism (2) To: reader-list at sarai.net Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 7:35 AM Dear All, Ishtiaq Ahmed, in this article, rejects the view held by some that feudalism has never existed in South Asia. And doing so, he goes on to explain the historical and social aspect of this idea. And how Feudalism was adopted to capture the South Asian essence. How this phenomenon has neglected people of education, freedom and Justice. He cleverly looks beyond the single economic aspect of feudalism and talks about the cultural and social impacts on the society. Regards, Asad http://www.thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=111680 In a debate article in the Dawn of April 30, 2008, Haider Nizamani seeks to dispel the widely held view that feudalism exists in Pakistan. His asserts that feudalism never existed in South Asia. To consider honour killings and exploitation of peasants by mighty landlords as indicative of feudalism he finds untenable because according to him, by 1999, 88 percent of cultivated land in Pakistan was in farm sizes below 12.5 acres. Just over half the total farms were less than five acres in size. "This would hardly be the hallmark of a feudal society," he asserts. This economistic argument is a legitimate one, but too narrow, mechanical and formalistic, because it presupposes that if the economic base changes cultural and ideological changes follow suit. In reality there is never a perfect fit between a mode of production and cultural and ideological forms, otherwise the thoroughly capitalised economies of the Middle East would have no place for tribal norms and behaviour patterns. Marx was acutely aware of the far more complex relationship between the economic base and the superstructure. He famously observed that Christian theology remained the reigning ideology much after classical feudalism had disintegrated and dissolved. Classical feudalism emerged in Western Europe when the old city-based high cultures of the Greeks and the Romans disintegrated and the locus of social activity moved into local units headed by tiered nobility, which controlled their serfs through a range of economic and extra-economic coercions. The feudal vassals, in turn, rendered services to the superior lords, and that chain of services finally connected to the king, who was named as the "first among the lords." He claimed a tribute or levy from the lesser nobles, who also provided him with soldiers. The above description is, of course, an ideal one in the tradition of Max Weber. In reality no two feudalisms anywhere in Europe were the same, except in the essential sense of an agrarian economy providing much of the surplus, as well as the soldiers upon which the ruling classes built their leisured lifestyle. Christian theology justified social hierarchy, and people knew their place in society – the rule was that the superiors were chosen by God and obeying them was a duty and obligation. Professions and roles in society were inherited from father to son. Feudal society was fatalistic, superstitious and static in relative terms. Now, in the case of South Asia, striking parallels can be found in the power structure that prevailed during the pre-colonial period. A maharaja or emperor at the apex of that order received tribute from a descending but segmented hierarchy comprising smaller rajas and nawabs, mansabdars and zamindars and village headmen. They also provided him with soldiers. The incumbents of land grants under the mansabdari system (military-feudal order) held their fiefs during the pleasure of the emperor. Original rights to a fief were largely absent and the king could in principle expropriate an incumbent at any time. That is why Indian feudalism was more of an oriental despotism because in Western feudalism even absolute kings were in principle bound by the law. The mansabdars ruthlessly exploited the peasants and the other agrarian workforce to extract as much wealth as possible before their estate was taken away from them. When the Mogul Empire weakened and the hold of the central government loosened, the lesser rajas and nawabs asserted their independence, while the mansabdars became hereditary owners of their estates. The caste system and the elitist Islam of the Muslim ruling class – both sanctioned strict hierarchy. The Muslim ruling class, comprising descendants of Turkish, Afghan, Persian and Arabic origin, until the 19th century did not start associating with the bulk of the local converts. The threat they perceived from the rising Hindu middle class that had taken to education, trade and commerce, forced them to evolve the novel idea of a Muslim nation comprising all Muslims. The British perpetuated the dependency of princes, nawabs, rajas and so on, on the colonial state, but with ample latitude to continue to exploit the peasants, artisans and other poor working on their estates. In fact the British most skilfully used land grants to create landlords that would see to it that protests and rebellion among the people in their areas of influence were effectively crushed. At the same time, with regard to Punjab and the NWFP the landlords compelled their peasants to join the British Indian Army. With the exception of Pir Sabghatullah Pagaro and some others from Sindh, almost all other pirs (spiritual leaders) were solid supporters of the British Raj. Sindhi, Punjabi and Pakhtun Muslims lagged behind the Hindus and Sikhs because while the latter opened schools the Muslim landlords did not allow schools to be be established in their domains. Ayub Khuhro and many other Sindhi leaders were educated in schools established by Hindus. In the late 1960s, when I was associated with the Mazdoor-Kissan Party of Major Ishaq, some of our comrades tried to provide free literacy classes to peasants in the stronghold of the Mazaris and Legharis in southern Punjab. They were harassed out of those areas. The land reforms introduced by Ayub Khan and followed by a series of radical land reforms by Zulfikar Ali Bhutto weakened that class but did not abolish it. Even now in southern Punjab and interior Sindh that decadent class exercises considerable political clout and upholds a culture that is oppressive of women, and the poor in general. I was horrified when a landlord told me some years ago that all the young women that came to work on his farm had to provide him with sexual gratification, otherwise they would not be employed. Bonded labour still exists, notwithstanding a ban imposed on it by the Supreme Court. Feudalism in the strict Western sense may never have existed, but its subcontinental forms during the pre-colonial, colonial and post-colonial periods were no less harsh and oppressive. Pakistani feudalism may now be in its death throes, but that is no reason to exonerate it from continuing to wreck the lives of vast numbers of the rural poor in this region of peripheral capitalism. As a cultural and ideological system Pakistani feudalism is a bastion of conservative values and moribund ideas. The sooner its remaining vestiges are abolished and a healthy class of peasant proprietors is created, the better it would be for all of us. In the years ahead we would need to radically modernise our agricultural sector so that a smaller number of farmers can produce many times more the food we will need. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Messenger: Thanks for 10 great years—enjoy free winks and emoticons. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/ _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Messenger: Happy 10-Year Anniversary—get free winks and emoticons. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/ From asad_abbasi at hotmail.com Thu Aug 6 19:20:13 2009 From: asad_abbasi at hotmail.com (asad abbasi) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:50:13 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan In-Reply-To: <496034.7143.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <496034.7143.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Kshmendra, If i see any interesting spin in these political decisions, i will gladly post it on the reader list. Regards, Asad Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 01:59:20 -0700 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan To: asad_abbasi at hotmail.com CC: reader-list at sarai.net Dear Assad If it lies within your range of interests, would you please post into this List information/commentaries on the recent Pakistan Supreme Court decision and percieved consequentials (Legislative and Judicial) that might impact Musharraf's takeover / PCOs / 17th Amendment / position of 'PCO Judges' / NRO and reliefs enjoyed under the NRO. Thanks Kshmendra _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Messenger: Celebrate 10 amazing years with free winks and emoticons. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/ From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 6 19:21:10 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 06:51:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change By Richard Shapiro In-Reply-To: <118672.22540.qm@web31801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <425063.70526.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Whether or not Shapiro suffers because of his association(s) with Angana Chatterji, this piece by him is replete with prejudice, bias, ill-concieved presumptions and mis-constructed deductions.   The sweeping generalisations he makes and his misrepresentations bordering on outright lies are only to be expected with his more than evident prejudice and bias.    Kshmendra --- On Thu, 8/6/09, Khurram Parvez wrote: From: Khurram Parvez Subject: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change By Richard Shapiro To: "SARAI" Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 11:23 AM A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change By Richard Shapiro August 04, 2009 http://www.sacw.net/article1090.html What are the various roles that diverse constituencies must play to facilitate political processes that undo militarization and subjugation in Indian administered Kashmir? How can systemic structures that institutionalize violence, cultural annihilation, economic impoverishment, and political disempowerment be countered through non-violent, ethical resistance? What alliances are necessary to allow hope for overcoming cycles of oppression and breaking with histories of domination? How can international, national, and local actors and institutions work together to disrupt socially unnecessary suffering and ameliorate the conditions of existence? What forces must cohere to enable a just peace to emerge in a democratic Kashmir in the foreseeable future? Numerous obstacles present tremendous challenges to movements for social justice. The current world order is predicated on systems of inequality that hierarchically divide countries, peoples, cultures, classes, genders, sexualities, ethnicities, and faith traditions to the benefit of the few and the detriment of the many. Dominant powers prescribe the rules of the game to their advantage and utilize knowledge, technology, and markets to structure social relations in their interests. The new global order presents itself as the best of all possible worlds in which sovereign nation-states organized through representative democracy, rule of law, free markets with government regulation, Enlightenment rationality, and human rights are promised as the solution to the problems of poverty, war, ecological devastation, genocide, and terrorism. This dominant narrative of progress through the spread of capitalism organized in nation-states and guided by knowledge has attained hegemony as it has captured the imagination of postcolonial nations like India. Postcolonial nations have largely reproduced the structures of colonial oppression and organized themselves to become players in the existing global order as militarized, hyper-masculinized, nuclear powers measuring their worth on the basis of GDP (Gross Domestic Product). Emerging middle-classes of massive proportion in postcolonial nations like India buttress this process of nation building that mirrors and enforces dynamics of globalization through the production of unparalleled poverty, massive and multiple dislocations, genocide of indigenous peoples, ecological disaster, and abundant psychological malaise. India is embraced by the international community, meaning largely the United States and Western Europe, precisely because it marches in step with the new world order. India amasses great cultural capital as “the world's largest democracy” in spite of the fact that it is home to 40% of the worlds most economically destitute, and seeks to constitute itself as a nation through policies that disregard the needs of the vast majority of its population. India is inventing nothing new in its self-constitution as a powerful nation-state. National identity is being fabricated through the equation of India with Hindus, in blatant form in entities like the RSS and BJP, and in more subtle form in the Congress and progressive Indian citizens for whom nationalism linked to 'Hindu cultural reassertion' is an unreflective response to a colonial past. The equation of Hinduism (unity in diversity) and Christianity with tolerance for difference, and Islam with terrorism, backwardness, and fanaticism, functions as a global trope supportive of unleashing disproportionate violence on Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Palestine, as well as within the territory of India in Gujurat, Orissa, and in the 'disputed territory' of Kashmir. India forms itself as nation with unexamined Hindu majoritarianism at its base, just as unexamined Christian cultural dominance organizes the United States, rendering explorations of the links between religionization, nationalism and particular secularisms close to impossible. India is also typical in its self-formation as nation in fashioning internal and external enemies as crucial to defining itself, and super-exploiting its most proximate 'others' to fuel its prosperity. European nations had the Jew as internal enemy. The United States is founded on the backs of its twin others - enslaved Africans and massacred Native Americans. India has as its main 'internal other' the Muslim, who can take no solace in also occupying the role as external enemy in India's dominant narrative. This double site is what the state uses to legitimate the brutalization of the Kashmiri people. Firstly, there is India's need for a majority Muslim state within its borders to legitimate itself as a progressive, pluralistic, secular nation. Without a Muslim majority state within India, India cannot as easily legitimate itself as a progressive member of the new global order. Secondly there is India's need to establish national identities that take precedence over regional, local, traditional identities. As a nation, India is in the process of seeking: (1) to establish territorial dominion over the current boundaries of the nation, (2) attain a monopoly on the means of violence, and (3) organize human and natural resources to enhance the productivity and power of the nation. Every nation that has achieved the normative status of modern democracy has utilized sustained and prolific violence to realize these three imperatives and in the process establish its identity. India is in a very vulnerable moment in this process as is evident from an examination of the myriad territories and forces fighting for autonomy in some form from the Indian state. Part of the strategy to foster national identity, simultaneous to providing very little to the vast majority of its population, and in fact fostering mal-development that impoverishes and displaces poor, rural 'citizens', is to fabricate an 'us' that must protect itself from 'them'. Without internal enemies India cannot unify itself as a nation. This internal enemy is also resolutely claimed as integral to India. The state and its loyal subjects repeat the same refrain: 'Kashmir is an integral part of India.' 'Kashmir is integral to India.' Kashmir is the other that is integral to the self, a difference that is integral to the identity of India. How then does India treat this other, this integral difference? To debase, devalue, disrespect, destroy the people, culture, history, land, waters, aspirations, imaginations, passions, thoughts, of this other that is claimed as integral to self reveals much about India's current state of existence. What other measure is available to us to assess ourselves as ethical entities than how we treat the other, how we engage the differences to which we are ethically obliged to respond? What nation has satisfactorily answered to this call? If a day arrives when Kashmir is 'a nation unto itself', independent and sovereign, an equal to all other nations, will Kashmir point the nation-state in a new direction? Will the differences integral to Kashmir be respected, affirmed, heard and engaged? Will 'the other' be the call to 'the self' to practice hospitality? Will the Gujur, the village woman who buried loved ones and waits in silence for words of/from other loved ones, the atheist, the ardent believer, the Shia, the Sufi, the pundit, the Buddhist, the differently abled, the homosexual, the beggar, the prostitute, be welcomed as participants in constructing a nation that will be 'a light unto other nations'? Will the other be welcomed without the demand or structural incentive to assimilate, to mirror/mimic dominance to be recognized as human? These questions are too much, perhaps even unfair. Yet, is it not necessary to raise them? Kashmir occupies a literal and imaginary border as inside and outside of India in ways that structure an impossible predicament. The state (and its elites and middle-classes) does not trust Kashmiris whose allegiance is always presumed to lie with Pakistan as an Islamic Republic, thus denying Kashmiris the rights of citizens of India, while asserting the inviolability of its sovereignty over Kashmir as a secular, democratic nation governed by equality under rule of law. The distrust legitimates military rule organized through special laws as necessary to provide law and order as a matter of internal security. Thus, on the basis of being part of a democratic state, the rights granted citizens of such a state are denied to Kashmiris. Inclusion in nation is coupled with dispossession from historical memory, rights, and life. India legitimates its mistreatment through a logic originating with European nation-states. This denial of civil and human rights, rule of law, and the freedoms of citizenship to Kashmiris is because the state must protect itself from forces within itself that threaten its character as a lawful, democratic nation. India must violate what is most inviolable, through a state of exception (the use of law to suspend law as definitive of sovereignty), to protect itself. The discourse requires the allegiance of the Kashmiri people to India, as proof that Kashmiris are not what the nation suspects - traitors and terrorists, as precondition to access to the rights of citizenship. These same rights of citizenship provided by the nation, while denied to Kashmiris, are used by India to justify its claims to being a legitimate state entitled to act as it does in Kashmir. As a legitimate state, India is predicated on civil rights and rule of law that it may legitimately suspend in the name of national security. Kashmiris must align with India given this legitimacy, while living as subjects without rights in so far as the state defines them as a threat to its sovereignty. India must violate what gives it legitimacy in order to protect itself from the internal enemy integral to it. India must destroy itself to protect itself. The state of exception produces a state of autoimmunity. India is also asserting itself as superior to other regional nation-states, and an emerging player in relation to Western Europe and the United States. Like other powerful democracies, India is entitled to do whatever is necessary to fight terrorism and strengthen itself as a powerful, sovereign, capitalist nation, aligned with the movement of progress (dominance). Kashmiris are placed in a situation where allegiance to India as prerequisite to participation in a lawful democracy involves allegiance to a state that has no rational basis to demand or expect allegiance from the people of Kashmir. India needs to exaggerate the degree of cross-border infiltration and armed Islamist militancy to rationalize 500,000+ troops, blurred boundaries between police and army, and massive intervention in daily life through systematic surveillance, land seizures, checkpoints, torture, disappearances, gendered and sexualized violence, fake encounter deaths and countless daily humiliations calculated to break the spirit of the Kashmiri people. This reality is currently resisted through mass demonstrations, regular protests, strategic use of elections, strategic boycott of elections, navigating restrictions on 'free press', civil society mobilizations, legal cases, an International Tribunal, and regular acts of dignity, courage, and faith that characterize the present in Kashmir. India demonstrates the persona all too common in the 'league of nations' - to act with impunity and disregard for international law and local demands for justice. India uses this fiction of the Kashmiri as existing in the shadowy space of inside/outside the nation to legitimate an occupation that ignores the historical particularity of Kashmir and the promises made to the people of Kashmir to determine its own future. The plight of Kashmiri pundits also becomes an opportunity for the state to legitimate regularized violence and systematic oppression of Kashmiris. Were all Kashmiris, whether currently residing in the state of Jammu/Kashmir or elsewhere, to be given voice to express their will, free from coercion, retribution, and manipulation, the outcome would not be in doubt. Kashmir is the longest standing disputed area in the United Nations, the most militarized spot on earth, and a drain on the hopes for prosperity, peace and freedom for people throughout the subcontinent, and the world. There is no moving toward peaceful coexistence between India and Pakistan, no stabilization of the region, no possibility for global nuclear disarmament, no hope for forms of development that prioritize sustainability and cultural survival over militarization, urbanization, and middle-class consumerism, no space for the impossible healing through mourning/memorializing the trauma of Partition, without granting self-determination to the people of Kashmir. The realization of that which is demanded by rationality in service of justice and emancipation is always against the odds. In relation to Kashmir, a more peaceful future requires at least four interrelated movements: (1) Massive, non-violent, ethical dissent within Kashmiri civil society must continue and expand, attentive to alliances that build stronger relations between men and women, youth and adults, various faith communities, urban and rural, rich and poor, facilitative of inclusive forms of polity that enable a diverse, pluralistic movement for freedom. (2) Leadership must form a unified coalition that activates and learns from the multiple constituencies that make up Kashmiri society. Divergent desires and imaginations regarding the future of Kashmir should be encouraged and discussed, outside the search for homogeneity or conformity. A Kashmir free of subjugation should enable multiple forms of life through participatory democracy, just governance, and economic practice promoting health, education, and individual and collective prosperity. Natural resources, like water, should be both safeguarded, and utilized for sustainable development. Cultural heritage should be understood as an inheritance of all Kashmiris to fashion a unique society nurturing hospitality, innovation, and multicultural polity. (3) Education and mobilization to shift public opinion in India must be undertaken throughout civil society to expand pressure on the Indian state. Citizen delegations from the various states and communities of India must visit Kashmir to learn first hand about the atrocities, resistances, hopes, and concerns prevalent in Kashmir. Such delegations must bring their new understandings to their neighborhoods, schools, workplaces, and places of worship to facilitate discussion and reflection that expand the voices of those who demand that illegal and immoral action in Kashmir done in their name immediately cease. Institutions in India must sponsor delegations from Kashmir, composed of diverse peoples who constitute Kashmiri society, to share the realities they have suffered and the need for alliance toward justice. Hindu faith communities must forge relationships with social justice movements in civil society in Kashmir to oppose Hindu majoritarian dominance and insist that the Indian state demilitarize the state of Jammu & Kashmir, become accountable to international agreements, rule of law, and human rights as the first step on the road to affirming the right of Kashmir to self-determination. Universities and the press must play a strong role in addressing the history and present of Kashmir to empower students and the citizenry of India to participate as informed members of a democratic republic, whose resources and conscience are systematically misused and violated by their government. (4) International solidarities from citizens, governmental and non-governmental organizations, students, workers, professionals, public intellectuals, faith communities, and all interested parties must be organized to educate, inform, advocate, and mobilize for the liberation of Kashmir. International institutions must be both utilized and strengthened as legitimate sites able to hold nation-states legally accountable for their actions. Research, education, and publication on the reality of present-day Kashmir and its modern history must be supported by and within universities, think tanks, and civil society forums. Campuses must become sites where students mobilize themselves to exert public pressure to ethically resolve the situation in Kashmir. Resistance in all four 'sites' must struggle to establish alliances, clarify goals, mobilize resources, deconstruct desires, and carve out space where different forms of polity and community, promoting ethical dissent, may live. To commit to these practices secures no guarantees. The process must draw from the resolve of Kashmiris to struggle for justice and strengthen this resolve through principled alliance that breaks the isolation and despair that accompanies any people subjected to brutal mistreatment. The multiple legacies that inspire and haunt us must become the very sustenance that, through sharing, nurtures our struggle. Allow me to conclude by drawing from a source common to the three Abrahamic traditions, and of universal relevance in the present, Deuteronomy 16:20, Justice, Justice, You Shall Pursue. Richard Shapiro is Chair and Associate Professor, Department of Social and Cultural Anthropology, California Institute of Integral Studies in San Francisco.       _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Aug 6 20:13:23 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 15:43:23 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] New Report Just Published China IC Card and Smart Card Industry Report, 2007-2008 - 186 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908060743y19574b52j9db66cc8e0e655f3@mail.gmail.com> Dear All More industry reports. No rhetoric just plain,cold money- Excerpts from the summary of a report posted on a website- 1. In 2007, Infieon had the best sales performance in global IC card chip Market, followed by NXP, Samsung, Atmel, Renesas and ST Microelectronics, they are all together had 92.1% shares of global IC card chip market. 2. The global SIM card shipment has reached 2.6 billion cards in 2007, up 27% year-on-year; the overall percentage of 3G SIM cards was 14%. According to SIM Alliance, the market scale of SIM card will break 3 billion by the end of 2008, considering the great demand from mobile operators in developing countries. For example, China Mobile, the global largest telecom operator, had ordered more than 280 million cards in the first three quarters of 2007, rising 60% compared to the same period in 2006. Moreover, the shipment of mobile phone card was 650 million in china in the year of 2007. India market also enjoyed a dramatically growth, its mobile phone card shipment had increased to 194 million cards in 2007 from 123 million cards in 2006, rising 58% year-on-year; Latin America, Mid East and Africa were also achieved a great market growth in 2007. Warm regards Taha http://www.live-pr.com/en/new-report-just-published-china-ic-r1048305353.htm New Report Just Published China IC Card and Smart Card Industry Report, 2007-2008 (Second Edition) © Reportlinker PRWire 2009 - By Robert Miller 31.07.2009 11:07:02 (live-PR.com) - Reportlinker.com announces that a new market research report related to the Electronic Component and Semiconductor industry is available in its catalogue. More information regarding this report:China IC Card and Smart Card Industry Report, 2007-2008 (Second Edition) http://www.reportlinker.com/p098081/China-IC-Card-and-Smart-Card-Industry-Report-2007-2008-Second-Edition-.html?utm_source=LivePR&utm_medium=pr&utm_campaign=LivePR The report has made depth analysis and forecast of China IC card market, focus on the six key global IC chip suppliers, and nearly 50 manufacturers in china of IC card chip, COS, card packaging and IC card device. The global SIM card shipment has reached 2.6 billion cards in 2007, up 27% year-on-year; the overall percentage of 3G SIM cards was 14%. According to SIM Alliance, the market scale of SIM card will break 3 billion by the end of 2008, considering the great demand from mobile operators in developing countries. For example, China Mobile, the global largest telecom operator, had ordered more than 280 million cards in the first three quarters of 2007, rising 60% compared to the same period in 2006. Moreover, the shipment of mobile phone card was 650 million in china in the year of 2007. India market also enjoyed a dramatically growth, its mobile phone card shipment had increased to 194 million cards in 2007 from 123 million cards in 2006, rising 58% year-on-year; Latin America, Mid East and Africa were also achieved a great market growth in 2007. >From the figure above, it can be seen that the total IC card shipment keeps a growth; meanwhile, the shipment ratio of CPU card keeps an increase as well, however, the memory card shipment declines. The growth of memory card shipment in 2006 and 2007 was mainly attributed to second generation ID card project and bus card project in china, about 300 million ID cards and 30 million bus cards were issued respectively during the period. According to the Eurosmart, the shipment of CPU card will reach as many as 4.205 billion by the end of 2008. According to China Information Industry Trade Association, IC card shipment in china was 1.08 billion cards in 2005, up 91.8% year-on-year; and the shipment value increased 11.1% to RMB 5.607 billion. In 2006, the shipment was 1.676 billion cards, rising 55.2% year-on-year; and the shipment value rose 32.4% to RMB 7.426 billion. The shipment reached 1.993 billion cards in 2007, ascending 19% compared to 2006; and the shipment value was RMB 8.165 billion, only increased 9%, which was mainly due to the price drop, especially the dramatic price drop of SIM cards. Based on the information from China Information Industry Trade Association, by the method of time series and taking the factors into account like the second generation ID card project and EMV transfer project of bank cards as well as the 2008 Olympic Game, ResearchInChina estimated that IC card shipment in China will reach 2.02 billion cards by the end of 2008, and the shipment value will reach RMB 9.21 billion. In 2007, Infieon had the best sales performance in global IC card chip Market, followed by NXP, Samsung, Atmel, Renesas and ST Microelectronics, they are all together had 92.1% shares of global IC card chip market. During 2007-2008, the development of China IC card market is featured as enhanced application in traditional sectors as well as continual new applications. In addition, the application system has entered the new updating period (such as social insurance CPU card and non-contact CPU card). From justjunaid at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 21:38:12 2009 From: justjunaid at gmail.com (Junaid) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 21:38:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Message-ID: Hi Kshmendra, You have described Prof. Shapiro's essay as "replete with prejudice, bias, ill-concieved presumptions and mis-constructed deductions". Could you actually elaborate and give reasons for your characterization of the essay. Junaid From anivar.aravind at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 22:00:51 2009 From: anivar.aravind at gmail.com (Anivar Aravind) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 22:00:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] UK National ID card cloned in 12 minutes In-Reply-To: <20090806162500.GB10821@narnia.kingsly.net> References: <20090806162500.GB10821@narnia.kingsly.net> Message-ID: <35f96d470908060930h2c6ca6f5n8a879a174306678b@mail.gmail.com> http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2009/08/06/237215/uk-national-id-card-cloned-in-12-minutes.htm Using a Nokia mobile phone and a laptop computer, Laurie was able to copy the data on a card that is being issued to foreign nationals in minutes. He then created a cloned card, and with help from another technology expert, changed all the data on the new card. This included the physical details of the bearer, name, fingerprints and other information. From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 6 22:33:55 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 10:03:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan Message-ID: <895851.26164.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Mr Chakravartty and RakeshJi,                                    By the way I am not a BJP Protagonist.I admired the Party because earlier it was different-party people were principled,honest,incorruptible,not power-hungry etc.Once they came to Power the party came out to be NOT different.It no longer remained admireable.With Mangalore and Kandhamal cases and internal infighting behind it, it perhaps rightly lost the elections.I agree with Rakesh's assessment that it would be a tough thing for them to be in power again in 2014 unless the UPA/Congress makes a serious blunder. CPM also used to be a party which could be admired because of their honesty and not being power-hungry irrespective of the policies they followed but alas they have also changed and are now almost like any other party.I think it could be perhaps because of general downgrading/lowering of public morality by all classes. Regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Thu, 8/6/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > From: Rakesh Iyer > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Feudalism in Pakistan > To: "anupam chakravartty" > Cc: "A.K. Malik" , "sarai list" > Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 1:46 PM > Dear Anupam jee > > I would just add one more thing to your mail. You have > stated that BJP won because it went on the plank of > 'security, development and fight against corruption' > in the 1998 elections. I think more than the BJP gain, it > was the Congress which lost, and the reasons to me are clear > somewhat in this statement of Aashish, the friend I > constantly refer to in this forum: > > > '40 saal tak Congress power mein thee. Unhone kya > kiya?'. (For 40 years, the Congress was in power, as > till 1989. What did they do?) > > The BJP and other parties asked this question, and stated > that the answer was that Congress had done nothing. They > staked their claim to power by stating that they will do > something for the people. So the BJP (and others) came to > power. But such politics also has its limitations. When the > people send you in Delhi with the hope of getting benefits, > and you don't provide it to them (sometimes because of > your inability or incompetence, sometimes because of > administrative incompetence, and sometimes because of too > much being asked in too little time and space), they get > impatient and fight for their rights. > > > The BJP has a very tough road to power even in 2014, > according to me, simply because not only would minorities > never vote for it (as most of the minority section is poor > and is threatened by the VHP and the Bajrang Dal), but also > because now that the BJP has ruled, people know that they > are not the answer to the question they asked themselves. > > > And hence, Modi or no Modi, I don't see any BJP coming > back to power, unless there is an all-India > pogrom/riot/genocide or the Congress rules absolutely badly, > or coalition politics ruins the Congress. (Also of course is > the case that BJP is limited only to certain states in > India, not the case with the Congress) > > > Regards > > Rakesh > > From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Aug 6 23:00:01 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 18:30:01 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] UK National ID card cloned in 12 minutes In-Reply-To: <35f96d470908060930h2c6ca6f5n8a879a174306678b@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090806162500.GB10821@narnia.kingsly.net> <35f96d470908060930h2c6ca6f5n8a879a174306678b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40908061030w94a2f4dxb6b4140ac92f68f@mail.gmail.com> Dear Anivar, Thank you for posting this story regarding cloning of a so called impregnable technology. I am sure this post or news items like this one, are going to polarize people who are following the Indian ID card story. Here are some scenarios- There are those who may look at this story and think that simply because someone was able to copy UK national ID card within minutes, does not necessarily mean that samples of all the cards in the entire world could be copied within minutes. They may also feel that GOI must have taken all these things into consideration that is why they have entrusted the responsibility of ID project to Nandan Nilekani. One can expect arguments emanating from this section to come maybe in -denial mode- Then there are those who are going to look at this story and express a range of emotions from shock to concern, to deep concern, to paranoia, to phobia, to maybe even panic tending towards mass-hysteria. People ascribing to this view may present their thoughts laced with arguments related to identity theft, loss of privacy, invasion of privacy, private sector taking over the world, or even world becoming anarchic. So one could expect the tone of arguments coming from this lot, to be either deeply cautionary or celebratory. A few of us, would be actually wanting to meet the person who did this. They may be interested in learning from Laurie, how he achieved this feat. This knowledge transfer might have two broad implications, either that knowledge may go to the government sector, to be used for more stringent coding or consolidation of technological/software locks or to the piracy sector to create, build, archive and ultimately share knowledge of cracking this technology and then harvesting data and subsequently selling it to smaller private buyers who may not have deep pockets to legitimately buy it, over the counter, but nevertheless share a desire to own and deploy such data or trade such data with other members of the corporate tribe. And as is evidenced by a recent submission of a minister in our parliament, we know now, how truthful and deeply honest, the captains of our industries are. Then there will be the policy crowd, who are of course, going to downplay this story. They might even suggest that people like Laurie routinely indulge in this type of stunts for cheap publicity. Before we know, another event will take over, like, a news report or a study or a report of perceptions of people expressing their total confidence in the technology of Identity card or even calls may be made to those news organization who are concentrating too much time on stories like this, to act responsibly and to report keeping the national security issues of a country in mind. However, I wish to thank you again, though, for bringing this particular view to the consideration of readers of this list. Warm regards Taha From kmvenuannur at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 09:20:04 2009 From: kmvenuannur at gmail.com (Venugopalan K M) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:20:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: link to Alternet essay on Corporates & capitalism Message-ID: <1f9180970908062050v2c13f509se814c23cd5a36689@mail.gmail.com> http://www.alternet.org/workplace/141668/consciousness_capitalism%3A_corporations_are_now_after_our_very_beings/?page=entire From sujata.tibre at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 13:51:42 2009 From: sujata.tibre at gmail.com (sujata tibrewala) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:51:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] democratisation of art In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, It gives me great pleasure to inform you that we from Pratibimba are organising an event on democratisation of art on 29th and 30th August at Rotary Club Bangalore. Please visit this link: http://sujatapratibimba.blogspot.com/ for details on the event, participating artists and the event plan. *If you are a practising artist you are welcome to join in.* ** *If you are an aspiring artist you are welcome to learn from the more experienced ones.* ** *If you are an art conessiour here is your chance to " hear it from the horse's mouth"* ** Do reply to this mail if you are interested as a participant or an artist. Thanking you in advance Sujata -- Sujata Tibrewala Artist, Artiscience educator www.pratibimba.in 9845126952 Online galleries www.yessey.com/sujatatibre http://www.artslant.com/global/artists/show/44753-sujata-tibrewala -- Sujata Tibrewala Artist, Artiscience educator www.pratibimba.in 9845126952 Online galleries www.yessey.com/sujatatibre http://www.artslant.com/global/artists/show/44753-sujata-tibrewala From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Aug 6 18:27:12 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:57:12 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Banks ready to help in unique ID project- 185 In-Reply-To: References: <65be9bf40908060527q6db6d252ie881f1bf616b14e2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40908060557r6ddb34c0rc0a3441119b23698@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh, Although I can very well empathize with your view especially given the fact that almost 1.44 lakh crore rupees are being withheld by individuals and institutions as tax money but I think, at the same time, it is important for us to get as clearer a sense of things as we could, in order to know reality- as it is. All we have are these often vague impressions of what is going on. And from whatever little we have, we can perhaps get a sense of coalescing information which was hitherto categorized and stored separately. This type of data consolidation is unprecedented therefore one needs to look into the processes of this consolidation carefully, as even, for instance, schemes like RTF, are going to have a huge impact, as post consolidation of bank data and identity. Warm regards Taha From iram at sarai.net Fri Aug 7 10:04:44 2009 From: iram at sarai.net (Iram Ghufran) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 10:04:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] FWD: Vikram Buddhi, has been incarcerated since April 2006 in various prisons in the USA. Message-ID: <4A7BAEE4.9070401@sarai.net> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Subject: Fwd: Vikram Buddhi, has been incarcerated since April 2006 in various prisons in the USA. Urgent - we need to take this forward From: "Sujata & Samantak" Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 22:26:31 +0530 To: SARAI Reader List Dear All, This was sent to me by a friend and I thought you might be interested. Apologies for intruding. Samantak Friends, I am sending you the following story which I am not sure was ever brought to your notice or not. Only last week we, came to know about this and were pretty shocked by the state of affairs. Both Vikram and his father are really being harassed and tortured by the US administration, to say the least. There is enough evidence to prove that the trial is absolutely unfair and is a miscarriage of justice, something which we want individuals and organisations across India, USA and the world to take up immediately. We are planning to meet with the Indian authorities to push our government to enquire from the US Govt what is happening with the Indian student. However, inorder to assure justice and human rights for Vikram and Dr. Subbarao, it is necessary that all of us do our best to ring this up with governments, media and international human rights organisations. Please forward widely http://www.petitiononline.com/freevb/petition.html Visit also: http://freevb.blogspot.com Regards and in the hope that many you will take it up immediately, Vijayan MJ Delhi Forum ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: *Sherebanu Frosh* > Please forward widely http://www.petitiononline.com/freevb/petition.html Dear All, In a stunning case of miscarried justice, an Indian graduate student at Purdue Univ. USA, Vikram Buddhi, has been incarcerated since April 2006 in various prisons in the USA. His crime is the alleged posting on internet chat boards of exhortations to Iraqis to avenge the deaths of their citizens. A federal prosecution has been launched against him in April 2006 under the false charge that he threatened to kill George W. Bush and others. In June 2007 he was denied fair trial with the presiding Trial Judge refusing to instruct the Jury on the applicable law and even threatening the Defense Attorney that he (the Judge) would embarrass the Defense Attorney if the Defense Attorney attempted to link the evidence on record with the applicable law during the closing address of the Defense Attorney to the Jury. Consequently on June 28, 2007, the Jury being ignorant of the applicable law pronounced the Defendant (Vikram Buddhi) guilty. However the sentencing has not taken place so far, as a result the appeal could not be filed up till now. Below are facts of the case, as well as the backgrounds of Vikram Buddhi and his father, Dr. Buddhi Kota Subbarao BACKGROUND: -In December 2005- January 2006, an Internet message appeared from an unknown source urging the people of Iraq to avenge the death of 312,769 women and children in Iraq. That message was traced to the computer of Vikram Buddhi, a graduate student at Purdue University, Indiana, US. -Vikram Buddhi was picked up for interrogation and released on January 18, 2006 by the U.S. Secret Service, complete with a report that he was not a threat in any way. -Four months later, he was mysteriously picked up again and jailed. The case went to trial, crucial evidence was hidden from the jury by a hostile judge, and a guilty verdict was returned on June 25, 2007. -He is still in jail. No sentence has been set; and thus, no appeal can be filed. MEANWHILE, HIS FATHER: -Dr. Kota Subbarao Buddhi went to the US on an emergency visa on June 25, 2006 to attend his son's trial. The trial was deflected to June 26, 2007 at which point Dr. Buddhi applied for an extension. This was denied (and the appeals process is ongoing) -On a technicality, Dr. Buddhi was not allowed to attend the trial for which he has been living in Lafayette, Indiana and forgoing all income. -In August 2007, Dr. Buddhi's passport was confiscated. He was told it would be returned to him if he voluntarily left the country, although that would mean that he could not return to the US for ten years. He was held in three different jails and released after three days of humiliating treatment. -His confiscated passport means that he cannot return to India for a visit without abandoning his son in prison *Vikram was a National Science Talent Scholar during his student days in India. He graduated in mathematics with M.Sc degree from the Indian Institute of Technology (IIT) Bombay, stood first in the class and received silver medal from IIT. Thereafter he worked for a year at the Tata Institute of Fundamental Research (TIFR), Bombay and then joined the mathematics department of Purdue University, West Lafayette, Indiana in the year 1996. *At Purdue he received MS degree in mathematics and thereafter has been pursuing Ph.D degrees simultaneously in pure and applied mathematics. At Purdue he received two times Best Teaching Award from the Department of Mathematics. *Vikram's father, Dr. Buddhi is a former Indian Navy Captain with Ph.D from Indian Institute of Technology, Bombay, in nuclear technology. He is also an advocate of Supreme Court of India, having degree in law from Bombay University. He has represented successfully in public interest matters before Bombay High Court taken up by the social organization ‘Citizens For A Just Society’ *founded by Dr. Usha Mehta, noted Gandhian, Freedom Fighter and Padma Vibhushan, during her life time and also subsequently. His article in countercurrents: http://www.countercurrents.org/kotasubbarao210409.htm DEMANDS (as enumerated by Dr. Buddhi to the Government of India): *--The Government of India send a formal communication to the President of the United States Barack Obama, bringing to his notice the need to respect the rule of law while dealing with resident Indians in the United States, and to allow reasonable opportunity to fight for justice, if necessary up to the US Supreme Court. --Appropriate action may be taken to get Dr. Buddhi's Passport returned to him. --Urgent appropriate action may be taken to prevent the US Authorities in their attempts to deport Dr. Buddhi to India. --Appropriate action may be taken to allow multiple entry US Visa for Dr. Buddhi so that he could attend to his commitments in India and also would be able to help his son in the United States to overcome the miscarriage of justice mounted on him in the federal case he is facing in the United States. * http://www.petitiononline.com/freevb/petition.html -- Regards, Vijayan MJ Delhi Forum Emails: vijayan at delhiforum.net , delhiforum at delhiforum.net From turbulence at turbulence.org Tue Aug 4 19:56:15 2009 From: turbulence at turbulence.org (Turbulence) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:26:15 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Upgrade! Boston + dorkbot-boston: Douglas Irving Repetto Message-ID: <001201ca150f$87f98590$97ec90b0$@org> Upgrade! Boston + dorkbot-boston: Douglas Irving Repetto DATE: August 17, 2009 TIME: 7:00-9:00 pm VENUE: Microsoft New England Research & Development Center, 1 Memorial Drive, Cambridge Celebrating our first joint event, Upgrade! Boston and dorkbot-boston are thrilled to co-host Douglas Irving Repetto. Director of Research at the Columbia University Computer Music Center, New York City, Douglas is also an artist and teacher. He is the founder of a number of art/community-oriented groups including "dorkbot: people doing strange things with electricity", "ArtBots: The Robot Talent Show", "organism: making art with living systems", and the "music-dsp" mailing list and website. His work -- including sculpture, installation, performance, recordings, and software -- has been presented internationally. Douglas' presentation will include "Bonding Energy," a solar energy to data visualization transducer commissioned by Turbulence.org. More >> http://turbulence.org/upgrade_boston/2009/05/dorkbot-co-hosts-its-founder-do uglas-irving-repetto/ :::: About Upgrade! Boston :::: Upgrade! Boston is curated by Jo-Anne Green for Turbulence.org. It is one of 32 nodes currently active in Upgrade! International, an emerging network of autonomous nodes united by art, technology, and a commitment to bridging cultural divides. If you would like to present your work or get involved, please email jo at turbulence dot org. _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From jeebesh at sarai.net Thu Aug 6 18:54:29 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 18:54:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Store for alternative independents Message-ID: > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: "Arpita Das" >> Date: 6 August 2009 6:28:44 PM GMT+05:30 >> To: "Arpita Das" >> Subject: A store for alternative independents >> >> >> Dear all, >> >> A few days ago, I went ahead and did something that I have wanted >> to do for a few years now. I took a small store space on rent in >> Hauz Khas Village with the intention of turning it into a platform >> devoted to promoting and selling interesting, alternative books, >> music and cinema by independent publishers, record labels/musicians >> and filmmakers. Having been an independent publisher for about six >> years now, I know that we share similar stories about our titles >> getting the short-shrift from the big bookstores, no matter how >> outstanding they might be in terms of content or production >> quality. Yet, even when we seek out independent booksellers and >> hope that they, at least, will give our titles as much if not more >> space than the mainstream companies, we are given long spiels about >> having to justify real estate prices/rentals, etc. However, I have >> for at least the last couple of years now become convinced that >> only independents can help other independents, and by that I don't >> just mean independent publishers helping other independent >> publishers, but independents across categories/professions/lines >> helping each other to thrive and not just survive. That is the only >> way to keep a viable and valuable alternative alive. This is the >> motivation that lies behind taking on the store space in Hauz Khas >> Village. And teaming your titles and ours with independent music >> and cinema, to my mind, gives the concept the necessary fizz which >> indeed we need to popularise it. I cannot, however, turn this >> rather unusual dream into reality without your support, cooperation >> and participation. So, do please send your titles for display at >> our store once we start operations in September. My colleagues in >> YODA PRESS will be in touch with you over the next few weeks with >> all the specific information you might need. I am particularly >> fortunate to have a talented and motivated editorial team here at >> YODA PRESS who are all keen to give quality time to the store--- >> what that means, as I am sure is evident, is that you will have >> enthusiatic sales people at the store at all times promoting your >> books to potential readers in a uniquely active way. >> >> >> As for other, more practical information, YODAKIN, as the putative >> store will be called is a 400-square-feet ground floor space at 2, >> Hauz Khas Village, located in the gali that leads to Gunpowder. We >> hope to start operations on 1 September. Do feel free to forward >> the mail to other likeminded independents who might want to display >> their titles/periodicals/products at YODAKIN. You can be in touch >> with our editor Supriya Nayak at supriya at yodapress.com for further >> details. >> >> I look forward to your response. >> >> Warm wishes >> Arpita >> >> Arpita Das >> Publisher and F./ounder >> YODA PRESS >> Editorial address: C9/9519 Vasant Kunj >> New Delhi 110 070 >> Permanent mailing address: A/C 268 Vasant Kunj >> New Delhi 110 070 >> Tel.: 91-11-41787201, 26125373 >> email: arpita at yodapress.com; arpitadasribeiro at gmail.com >> -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From asad_abbasi at hotmail.com Fri Aug 7 10:43:28 2009 From: asad_abbasi at hotmail.com (asad abbasi) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 05:13:28 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism and terrorism Message-ID: Dear All, The discourse of feudalism is not only important forPakistan but perhaps for South Asia. It requires different intellectuals from various backgrounds to share their views and input their thoughts. It is important, i must say, because the stereotypical image of Pakistan is of a terrorist nation. It is generally accepted that elimination of terrorism from this country will not only benefit Pakistan but the whole world. I, on the other hand, beg to differ. Because as i see it , the stability of Pakistan is greatly affected by other factors including feudalism as much as it depends on terrorism. A farmer in province of Sindh who works from dawn to dusk just so that he and his family can survive. Also, that his children will have to be farmers just like him, because the almighty land lord does not allow children to study at the local school.(ie if there is a school at the first place) What will happen if Pakistan with all her resources try to eliminate terrorism. But somewhere in this process neglects the issue of feudalism. As there is no one to watch, feudal lords can only grow in confidence and may start abusing the subjects (farmers in this )even more. Then Pakistan may have one of the following scenarios in 8-10 years. a) Pakistan has no terrorists and no terrorist activity b)Pakistan has insignificant amount of terrorist c)Pakistan wasted her resources and no damage was done to the hold of terrorism. D) Mixture of any of the above situation. Moreover, because the resources were diverted of other issues such as tackling feudalism, Pakistan may end up facing externalities for this policy. And one side effect can be that, Pakistan will have a generation of uneducated, illiterate and deprived people. Some census say that Pakistan has a literacy ratio of 49%( Even though, i along with so many people with whom i have had the opportunity to discuss this issue, believe that this number is clearly an exaggeration and the ratio can not be more that 36%) and it is generally accepted that mostly these people live in urban areas. If Feudalism prevails, then majority of 51% (or 64% as in the other case) will not have the opportunity to educate themselves. Which, and no sane person will argue, will bring any country to developmental halt. Terrorism is taking lives and destroying places, where as feudalism is making lives worse and destroys the privilege of education. It, my friends, is a important issue and just like terrorism should be taken seriously. Regards, Asad _________________________________________________________________ Celebrate a decade of Messenger with free winks, emoticons, display pics, and more. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/ From gowharfazili at yahoo.com Fri Aug 7 10:57:04 2009 From: gowharfazili at yahoo.com (gowhar fazli) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 22:27:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] a tribute to Indian democracy Message-ID: <230377.74690.qm@web65707.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Murder In Plain Sight In Manipur, death comes easy. In this damning sequence of photos, a local photographer captures the death of a young man, killed in a false encounter by the police in broad daylight, 500 metres from the state assembly. How can a State justify such a war against its own people, asks TERESA REHMAN http://www.tehelka.com/story_main42.asp?filename=Ne080809murder_in.asp From murali.chalam at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 11:14:01 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:14:01 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism and terrorism In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4eab87870908062244m2728dach89a52c87927ce509@mail.gmail.com> Both Terrorism and Feudalism are dangerous weeds which will have to controlled. India also started as a nation with feudal lords generating bonded labors who had no access to education. INdia has come a long way since then and the feudal system has almost been cleared and as a result bonded labors. This has resulted in the rural population having access to primary and secondary education. There is still a long way to go as far as rural education is concerned, but steps have been continuously taken on this front atleast in the last 15 years to increase the education infrastructure in the rural areas. Pakistan had also became a nation at the same time, but the focus of Pakistan was constantly on India and to destabilise ,resulting in good funds being diverted to military buildup and promoting militant training camps to infiltrate into India. Pakistan could well understand the history of India since Indepenence and suitably modify its programs based on India's experience. More importantly, the education infrastructure should emphasise on non-Madrasa form of education system. Regards, V Murali On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:43 AM, asad abbasi wrote: > > Dear All, > > The discourse of feudalism is not only important forPakistan but perhaps > for South Asia. It requires different intellectuals from various backgrounds > to share their views and input their thoughts. > > It is important, i must say, because the stereotypical image of Pakistan is > of a terrorist nation. It is generally accepted that elimination of > terrorism from this country will not only benefit Pakistan but the whole > world. I, on the other hand, beg to differ. Because as i see it , the > stability of Pakistan is greatly affected by other factors including > feudalism as much as it depends on terrorism. > > A farmer in province of Sindh who works from dawn to dusk just so that he > and his family can survive. Also, that his children will have to be farmers > just like him, because the almighty land lord does not allow children to > study at the local school.(ie if there is a school at the first place) > > What will happen if Pakistan with all her resources try to eliminate > terrorism. But somewhere in this process neglects the issue of feudalism. As > there is no one to watch, feudal lords can only grow in confidence and may > start abusing the subjects (farmers in this )even more. > > Then Pakistan may have one of the following scenarios in 8-10 years. > > a) Pakistan has no terrorists and no terrorist activity > > b)Pakistan has insignificant amount of terrorist > > c)Pakistan wasted her resources and no damage was done to the hold of > terrorism. > > D) Mixture of any of the above situation. > > > > Moreover, because the resources were diverted of other issues such as > tackling feudalism, Pakistan may end up facing externalities for this > policy. And one side effect can be that, Pakistan will have a generation of > uneducated, illiterate and deprived people. Some census say that Pakistan > has a literacy ratio of 49%( Even though, i along with so many people with > whom i have had the opportunity to discuss this issue, believe that this > number is clearly an exaggeration and the ratio can not be more that 36%) > and it is generally accepted that mostly these people live in urban areas. > If Feudalism prevails, then majority of 51% (or 64% as in the other case) > will not have the opportunity to educate themselves. Which, and no sane > person will argue, will bring any country to developmental halt. > > > > Terrorism is taking lives and destroying places, where as feudalism is > making lives worse and destroys the privilege of education. > > > > It, my friends, is a important issue and just like terrorism should be > taken seriously. > > > > Regards, > > Asad > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Celebrate a decade of Messenger with free winks, emoticons, display pics, > and more. > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Aug 7 12:29:29 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 07:59:29 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Universal ID: Going beyond smart cards & databases- 186 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908062359s794dfe28s35b55c9e1d16018f@mail.gmail.com> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Universal-ID-Going-beyond-smart-cards-databases/articleshow/4856509.cms Universal ID: Going beyond smart cards & databases 4 Aug 2009, 1635 hrs IST, S Sadagopan, The June 2009 announcement of the appointment of Nandan Nilekani, cofounder of Infosys, as the head of UIDAI (Universal ID Authority of India) Nandan What is missed out in the initial reactions is the larger issue involved. The government must be congratulated in correctly terming the office as “Universal ID Authority of India”. The terms “universal ID” “identification” and “authority” are very pertinent. In recent years, many government departments have independently started issuing IDs to citizens of India, primarily to suit their interaction with the citizens. The home ministry through passport to track their travel in and out of the country. The income-tax department through PAN (permanent account number) to track income and expenses for the purpose of taxation. The Election Commission through their voter identity card. There are also ration cards, BPL card for poor families, driving licence and gas connection certificate Common among all these experiments is the “limited purpose” of the intended use; no sharing of information among the agencies of the government. The UIDAI goes beyond “identity cards” to the very “identity” itself. It is important to evolve“architecture” of an identification system than the identity itself. First, being “universal” in nature it is best to have a system that can accommodate citizens, permanent residents and visitors, though the system might focus on citizens first. Second, it must be prospective in the sense that on the day when the system comes into force there is an enabling mechanism to put the system into action; in that sense it may be better to design a system that might start functioning 20 or 25 years from now, but with the guarantee that the eco-system to support such a system will be in place, rather than rushing through with one system or another. Third, it must have system to take care of normal accidents — users losing an identity proof, users changing their status — location, job, marital status, getting children, acquiring property, occupying special position such as member of the parliament, prime minister of the country, and even special cases — facing disability, liquidation, criminal proceedings, change of name or sex. Fourth, there must be a system of incorporating changes and re-issuance of identity proof that is easy, affordable and hassle-free , and yet making it rather difficult for end users with malicious purposes to do “identity theft” . Fifth, the identity system must have natural start and end points; for example, an identity system may start at the time of birth and accordingly it must be captured along with the birth of the child anywhere in the country; alternately, the identity proof issuance may happen at a specific age or at a specific stage — for example at the age of 18 — on acquiring the right to vote. Sixth, there must be a system that “links up” the identity, say of two individuals at the time of marriage, children’s identity getting linked to parents with a provision that such linkages may have to be re-established during special circumstances (divorce, adoption in case of children). Finally, the system must form the foundation for many identity proofs — passport, PAN, driving licence, voter identity card — and be able to keep the linkages intact and secure (ability to link all identity proofs, for example, all passports issued, all linked passports (spouse, children, parents), drivers licences issued at different places , voter identities issued. Ultimately, the identity system must address all possible end uses of identity proof, for example, access to social benefits — pension, social security, subsidies, if any, and, insurance; right to vote, right to drive, right to drink, right to acquire property, right to job, help government to track — taxes, travel out of country, movements in case of bail, and, help citizens in getting services — bank account , BPL card, senior citizens benefits, healthcare, education. (The author is director, IIIT Bangalore) From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Aug 7 12:31:59 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 08:01:59 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Ficci to seek quota for small units in e-governance- 187 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908070001qcea9ad5g54e9fe76248d4e6c@mail.gmail.com> http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/ficci-to-seek-quota-for-small-units-in-e-governance/365822/ Ficci to seek quota for small units in e-governance T E Narasimhan / Chennai August 4, 2009, 0:28 IST Projects worth over Rs 70,000 crore to upgrade technology have been kickstarted in the country. The e-governance projects recently initiated by the Central and state governments have brought some cheer for small and medium enterprises (SMEs) in the IT/ITeS segment, that have been hit by the ongoing downturn. Industry sources say that over Rs 70,000 crore worth of projects, including e-governance and technology upgrades by various public sector entities, have been kick-started in the country. If 10 per cent is reserved for SMEs it would make a big difference to them, said Arun Ram, a member of the Tamil Nadu government’s IT & Communications Task Force. A few state governments— such as Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh and Gujarat— have started allocating such projects to SMEs. To make others follow suit, the Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry (Ficci) is planning to ask the government to reserve some e-governance projects for SMEs. Ram, who is chairman of the Chennai-based Valingro Group, and a member of Ficci’s executive committee, said the government’s unique identity project is a Rs 40,000 crore programme, apart from which the Central and state governments are expected to spend around $10 billion over the next five years on e-governance projects and on upgrading their technology. Of this, India Post, Indian Railways, Life Insurance Corporation and other state entities alone are expected to spend $6 billion. These projects — especially the e-governance projects — offer “tremendous” opportunities for SMEs, said Arun. According to UNESCO, e-governance refers to the public sector’s use of information and communication technologies to improve information and service delivery, encourage citizen participation in the decision-making process and make government more accountable, transparent and effective. The Central government launched the National e-Governance Plan (‘NeGP’) on May 18, 2006. The three pillars of the plan are connectivity (statewide area networks), data centres (National Data Bank, State Data Centres) and Common Service Centres, according to e-Governance 2020, a Ficci-Ernst Young report on emerging themes for e-Governance in India.The total cost of the NeGP until 2011 is estimated at Rs 23,000 crore. The outlays for its components are: Rs 1,623 crore for state data centres, Rs 313 crore for the capacity building scheme, Rs 3,334 crore for statewide area networks, and Rs 5,742 crore for the common service centres scheme (CSCS). The participation of SMEs in these projects will not only be cost-effective, it will also generate more employment opportunities. For instance, the CSCS would boost employment and entrepreneurship in rural areas. Tamil Nadu is currently setting up such centres across the state’s rural parts. Through these centres citizens can purchase railway tickets, pay public utility bills, obtain housing documents and access any government services meant for the common citizen. The state is expected to set up 5,200 such centres. Tamil Nadu is also executing several e-governance projects and upgrading technology in various departments through the Electronic Corporation of Tamil Nadu (ELCOT). The state’s IT Secretary, P W C Davidar, said 15 per cent of these projects have been taken up by SMEs. For instance, the state’s employment exchange has been redesigned by a SME. The state government is also planning to introduce a smart card system in its regional transport offices (RTOs). Companies like Ascenders Technologies, a Chennai-based IT services firm, have come out with new solutions for such initiatives. T Thirugnanam, a director of Ascenders Technologies, said SME products are 30 per cent cheaper than those of larger companies. The company has introduced smart cards for RTOs, health care providers and education institutions. “While we (SMEs) are able to offer better solutions at better prices, we are not able to participate in government projects because of the revenue floor that keeps SMEs away from the tender process,” Thirugnanam said. (The TN government allows only companies with annual revenues of at least Rs 50 crore to participate in government projects. SMEs want the revenue floor to be set at half of the total project cost.) To address this issue FICCI is planning to recommend to the government that a portion of e-governance projects should be reserved for SMEs, said Arun. The chamber is also planning to create a consortium of SMEs which would allow them to bid for projects and compete with big companies. From murali.chalam at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 12:59:03 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 12:59:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Universal ID: Going beyond smart cards & databases- 186 In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40908062359s794dfe28s35b55c9e1d16018f@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40908062359s794dfe28s35b55c9e1d16018f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908070029h2b375798w46fd99a1be0f7106@mail.gmail.com> First : It will be easy to identify a visitor but a visitor need not require a UAID card. The most difficult part would be to identify a citizen as for several years illegal immigrants have settled from the neighboring countries and most probably have got a ration card, voter id etc. Second : It will be difficult to envisage an integrated system 20-25years hence. The ideal way would be to to identify the methodology for uniqueness, methodology to first identify citizens alone (The rest of the category could come in later), issuance of the card, which probably has to be completed in about 2 years with integration to the existing IDs like PAN, Voter ID etc. The implementation of the integration to other dept.s which till date do not have their concept of identity database could be done in a phased manner over about 5 years. Third & Fourth : Issuance of duplicate would not be difficult if the ID is based on BIO-metics as the person requesting would have to go in person and the info from the database could be automatically picked and the necessary hard copy of the ID could be regenarated. The type of Updates will have to be prioritised and will have to implemented n a phased manner. Fifth : The start point will have to be from the birth. This would provide statistics for the CENSUS dept and also give indicators on the rate of growth of population. Sixth : Estabilishing Links with relationships will expand as the system gets implemented across departments. Regards, V Murali On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > > http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Universal-ID-Going-beyond-smart-cards-databases/articleshow/4856509.cms > > Universal ID: Going beyond smart cards & databases > > 4 Aug 2009, 1635 hrs IST, S Sadagopan, > > > The June 2009 announcement of the appointment of Nandan Nilekani, > cofounder of Infosys, as the head of UIDAI (Universal ID Authority of > India) > Nandan > > What is missed out in the initial reactions is the larger issue > involved. The government must be congratulated in correctly terming > the office as “Universal ID Authority of India”. The terms “universal > ID” “identification” and “authority” are very pertinent. > > In recent years, many government departments have independently > started issuing IDs to citizens of India, primarily to suit their > interaction with the citizens. The home ministry through passport to > track their travel in and out of the country. The income-tax > department through PAN (permanent account number) to track income and > expenses for the purpose of taxation. The Election Commission through > their voter identity card. There are also ration cards, BPL card for > poor families, driving licence and gas connection certificate > > Common among all these experiments is the “limited purpose” of the > intended use; no sharing of information among the agencies of the > government. The UIDAI goes beyond “identity cards” to the very > “identity” itself. It is important to evolve“architecture” of an > identification system than the identity itself. > > First, being “universal” in nature it is best to have a system that > can accommodate citizens, permanent residents and visitors, though the > system might focus on citizens first. > > Second, it must be prospective in the sense that on the day when the > system comes into force there is an enabling mechanism to put the > system into action; in that sense it may be better to design a system > that might start functioning 20 or 25 years from now, but with the > guarantee that the eco-system to support such a system will be in > place, rather than rushing through with one system or another. > > Third, it must have system to take care of normal accidents — users > losing an identity proof, users changing their status — location, job, > marital status, getting children, acquiring property, occupying > special position such as member of the parliament, prime minister of > the country, and even special cases — facing disability, liquidation, > criminal proceedings, change of name or sex. > > Fourth, there must be a system of incorporating changes and > re-issuance of identity proof that is easy, affordable and hassle-free > , and yet making it rather difficult for end users with malicious > purposes to do “identity theft” . Fifth, the identity system must have > natural start and end points; for example, an identity system may > start at the time of birth and accordingly it must be captured along > with the birth of the child anywhere in the country; alternately, the > identity proof issuance may happen at a specific age or at a specific > stage — for example at the age of 18 — on acquiring the right to vote. > > Sixth, there must be a system that “links up” the identity, say of two > individuals at the time of marriage, children’s identity getting > linked to parents with a provision that such linkages may have to be > re-established during special circumstances (divorce, adoption in case > of children). > > Finally, the system must form the foundation for many identity proofs > — passport, PAN, driving licence, voter identity card — and be able to > keep the linkages intact and secure (ability to link all identity > proofs, for example, all passports issued, all linked passports > (spouse, children, parents), drivers licences issued at different > places , voter identities issued. > > Ultimately, the identity system must address all possible end uses of > identity proof, for example, access to social benefits — pension, > social security, subsidies, if any, and, insurance; right to vote, > right to drive, right to drink, right to acquire property, right to > job, help government to track — taxes, travel out of country, > movements in case of bail, and, help citizens in getting services — > bank account > , BPL card, senior citizens benefits, healthcare, education. > > (The author is director, IIIT Bangalore) > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kmvenuannur at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 13:37:12 2009 From: kmvenuannur at gmail.com (Venugopalan K M) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:37:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Invite for AISA's and AIFRTE's Public Hearing Against UPA's Agenda to Commercialize Education In-Reply-To: <78f2bd80908052124y60b1ad16k61235b36fd1b5539@mail.gmail.com> References: <78f2bd80908052124y60b1ad16k61235b36fd1b5539@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f9180970908070107o604bd807kf265a4e1df2cccee@mail.gmail.com> - - *A Public Hearing on the Right to Education Bill and UPA's Proposals Towards Commercialization of Education* * * *August 7, Jantar Mantar, 11 am Onwards* Dear sir/madam We are writing to you with regard to the 100-day agenda announced by the Ministry of Human Resources Development (MHRD). Kapil Sibal has promised ‘radical’ reforms in the country’s education system - these ‘reforms’ are being touted as an important step in deciding the destiny of the students and youth of the country. It is clear that the UPA Government in its new term is all set this time, through ‘educational reforms’ to complete its coveted agenda of privatizing and commercializing education. As you are well aware, the ‘reforms’ in education which the MHRD is advocating are nothing new. *They are but a ruse for the government to escape its responsibility towards education and deliver it entirely into private hands.* More than a decade of anti-privatization struggles by students have forced Governments to change their vocabulary; to ‘dress up’ their privatization-commercialization agenda in a grand cloak of ‘reform’. One of the most trumpeted proposals by the Congress government is to pass the ‘Right to Education’ (RTE) bill, which is well on its way to becoming a legally mandated Act. *The RTE has been passed unanimously by the Rajya Sabha, with no opposition whatsoever.* *The RTE in its present form has several fundamental, structural problems and ambiguities that shelve it of any potential to really provide fundamental right to education as mandated by our constitution and the landmark 1993 Unnikrishnan judgment of the Supreme Court. **Despite this, the RTE was passed unanimously in Rajya Sabha with almost no debate, which clearly revealed a near-consensus in the parliament to support the farce that the UPA is peddling in the name of “Right to Education”.* What is shocking is that the UPA as well as the NDA government before it are trying their level best to undermine and restrict the scope of the landmark Unnikrishnan judgment of the Supreme Court and the fundamental right of education underlined in the constitution under the garb of this "Right to Education Bill". In this context, several groups who have been campaigning against the government's attempts to escape its responsibility of providing for education joined together at a meeting held in Hyderabad on 21-22 June 2009 to form the "All India Forum for Right to Education" (AIFRTE). *Noted educationist Prof. Anil Sadgopal and political scientist Prof. Hargopal of HCU (Hyderabad Central University) are co-Presidents of this forum*, which includes several teachers, educationists and students. AISA is also part of the AIFRTE. As part of the nation-wide campaign against the UPA government's covert plans to sell out our education system to the private sector in bits and pieces, the AIFRTE has been organizing several protest demonstrations and meetings all over the country*. In this regard, AISA along with AIFRTE is organizing a Public Hearing (Jan Sunwai) on August 7, the last day of the present session of Parliament*. This pubic hearing will be held at Jantar Mantar from 11 am onwards, where intellectuals, teachers, students, and residents of Delhi from different sections of society will participate. AISA and AIFRTE appeal to you to join this Public Hearing. We are attaching with this e-mail a preliminary note on this issue, as well as a copy of the memorandum which we handed over to the Lok Sabha speaker. Regards, Ravi Rai General Secretary All India Students' Association 9868661628 -- -- Regards, Ravi Rai General Secretary All India Students' Association 9868661628 -- -- Shankar -- http://venukm.blogspot.com http://www.shelfari.com/kmvenuannur http://kmvenuannur.livejournal.com From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 14:37:30 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:37:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] UK National ID card cloned in 12 minutes In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40908061030w94a2f4dxb6b4140ac92f68f@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090806162500.GB10821@narnia.kingsly.net> <35f96d470908060930h2c6ca6f5n8a879a174306678b@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908061030w94a2f4dxb6b4140ac92f68f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908070207h2bfcbfdco8abf353b967393c6@mail.gmail.com> *Dear all,** * * * * "CRIME IS ALWAYS ONE STEP AHEAD OF PREVENTION"* does this mean that we should not have any tools to prevent crime.? Does this mean we should not have rule of laws to deal with the criminals.? If a neighboring nation can print high quality currency notes and use it for terror, to de-stabilize the economy of its neighbor, should we take note of it and see that our currency is better and methods of fake currency identification made easier to all citizens.? Or to that matter our own citizens , many of them are easily lured with wealth, become easy sleeper cells of terror for wealth gains, for a faith to prove that they are "devout" to their faith more than the society of the nation, be monitored and "freedom" to infest the nation with terror should be given human "rights" to terrorise the innocents and be happy that we are honouring the "rights " of inhuman individuals who indulge in such anti-societal acts which are both illegal, immoral to the society and nation.? It is well known that from these nations , our daughters get "grooms" to marry, then the groom settles down here in the nation, starts to earn with "business" many a times, illegal, like trafficker of arms, many a times be a sleeper cell for the logistic support for the trans-border fanatic.Many from these neighbor nations come to this nation, for studies , Karnataka has too many of them, but never return back, like many of Indians who go abroad, prefer to stay in that nation with green card or citizenship of that nation. But, do we have in this nation, a system that works to identify a preacher who settles down to do good to tribal s by converting them? .Do we have data of students and grooms who never return to their nations after marriage or studies.?In any other nation, they have immigration checks, do we have any.? Regards, Rajen. On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 11:00 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > Dear Anivar, > > Thank you for posting this story regarding cloning of a so called > impregnable technology. I am sure this post or news items like this > one, are going to polarize people who are following the Indian ID card > story. > > Here are some scenarios- > > There are those who may look at this story and think that simply > because someone was able to copy UK national ID card within minutes, > does not necessarily mean that samples of all the cards in the entire > world could be copied within minutes. They may also feel that GOI must > have taken all these things into consideration that is why they have > entrusted the responsibility of ID project to Nandan Nilekani. One can > expect arguments emanating from this section to come maybe in -denial > mode- > > Then there are those who are going to look at this story and express a > range of emotions from shock to concern, to deep concern, to paranoia, > to phobia, to maybe even panic tending towards mass-hysteria. People > ascribing to this view may present their thoughts laced with arguments > related to identity theft, loss of privacy, invasion of privacy, > private sector taking over the world, or even world becoming anarchic. > So one could expect the tone of arguments coming from this lot, to be > either deeply cautionary or celebratory. > > A few of us, would be actually wanting to meet the person who did > this. They may be interested in learning from Laurie, how he achieved > this feat. This knowledge transfer might have two broad implications, > either that knowledge may go to the government sector, to be used for > more stringent coding or consolidation of technological/software locks > or to the piracy sector to create, build, archive and ultimately share > knowledge of cracking this technology and then harvesting data and > subsequently selling it to smaller private buyers who may not have > deep pockets to legitimately buy it, over the counter, but > nevertheless share a desire to own and deploy such data or trade such > data with other members of the corporate tribe. And as is evidenced by > a recent submission of a minister in our parliament, we know now, how > truthful and deeply honest, the captains of our industries are. > > Then there will be the policy crowd, who are of course, going to > downplay this story. They might even suggest that people like Laurie > routinely indulge in this type of stunts for cheap publicity. Before > we know, another event will take over, like, a news report or a study > or a report of perceptions of people expressing their total confidence > in the technology of Identity card or even calls may be made to those > news organization who are concentrating too much time on stories like > this, to act responsibly and to report keeping the national security > issues of a country in mind. > > However, I wish to thank you again, though, for bringing this > particular view to the consideration of readers of this list. > > Warm regards > > Taha > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajen. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Aug 7 15:04:38 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:34:38 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Universal ID: Going beyond smart cards & databases- 186 In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908070029h2b375798w46fd99a1be0f7106@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40908062359s794dfe28s35b55c9e1d16018f@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908070029h2b375798w46fd99a1be0f7106@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40908070234q284c3614m6a518b510139878f@mail.gmail.com> Dear Murli, Thank you for your mail. Let me just take your thoughts forward, by bringing forth my views, which are, as follows- > First : It will be easy to identify a visitor but a visitor need not require > a UAID card. The most difficult part would be to identify a citizen as for > several years illegal immigrants have settled from the neighboring countries > and most probably have got a ration card, voter id etc. First: How does one categorize someone as a -visitor-? Does such a statement not assume that one -knows- who is a -native-? Can there be other ways of looking at people apart from colonial categories of -natives- and -foreigners-? > Second : It will be difficult to envisage an integrated system 20-25years > hence. The ideal way would be to to identify the methodology for uniqueness, > methodology to first identify citizens alone (The rest of the category could > come in later), issuance of the card, which probably has to be completed in > about 2 years with integration to the existing IDs like PAN, Voter ID etc. > The implementation of the integration to other dept.s which till date do not > have their concept of identity database could be done in a phased manner > over about 5 years. Second: If in the last 160 (ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY) years people could not identify other people as they claim to be, then how does one arrives, even at a tentative figure of 20-25 or for the matter 320-325 years? Does a methodology of uniqueness not assume that a person will remain that person from birth till death? If a ship were to go through wear and tear and has to be fitted with new parts and old parts had to be taken down, to such a time when no part of the old ship or an original part of 'same' ship, remains the same then would you still prefer to assume that ship to be the -same ship- which it was say twenty-twenty five years ago? Does identity not mean to ascertain for all times to come that a particular person -is-as-same-as- she/he claims to be? > Third & Fourth : Issuance of duplicate would not be difficult if the ID is > based on BIO-metics as the person requesting would have to go in person and > the info from the database could be automatically picked and the necessary > hard copy of the ID could be regenarated. The type of Updates will have to > be prioritised and will have to implemented n a phased manner. Third & Fourth : Does a statement like the one elucidated above not assume that ALL persons can go in person? What about the migrant laborer? (1/4 to 1/3 of India is on the move continuously, the whole year round- either in search for work or working in areas not of their domicile) What about the elderly and the invalid? What about the sick, the chronically sick, and what about those who are too impaired to not to care at all? > Fifth : The start point will have to be from the birth. This would provide > statistics for the CENSUS dept and also give indicators on the rate of > growth of population. Fifth : Are ALL births registered in India? Can birth certificates not be forged or duplicated through exchange of sufficient monetary benefits to right staff? > Sixth : Estabilishing Links with relationships will expand as the system > gets implemented across departments. Sixth: Does this statement not assume that no relationships or links exist now? Is that the case? If no, then why not the procedures which exist right now are not streamlined? Warm regards Taha From murali.chalam at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 15:07:01 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 15:07:01 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] UK National ID card cloned in 12 minutes In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908070207h2bfcbfdco8abf353b967393c6@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090806162500.GB10821@narnia.kingsly.net> <35f96d470908060930h2c6ca6f5n8a879a174306678b@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908061030w94a2f4dxb6b4140ac92f68f@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908070207h2bfcbfdco8abf353b967393c6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908070237o757c8349h125405a4ea18d5ee@mail.gmail.com> Who knows how many of our politicians have cuts from the fake currencies. Who knows how many of our politicians have cuts from the illegal immigration and infesting the country. Who knows how many of our politicians have cuts from the the preacher / dollar missions for the conversions. Regards, V Murali On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > *Dear all,** * > * > * > * "CRIME IS ALWAYS ONE STEP AHEAD OF PREVENTION"* > does this mean that we should not have any tools to prevent crime.? > > Does this mean we should not have rule of laws to deal with the > criminals.? > > If a neighboring nation can print high quality currency notes and use > it for terror, to de-stabilize the economy of its neighbor, should we take > note of it and see that our currency is better and methods of fake currency > identification made easier to all citizens.? > Or to that matter our own citizens , many of them are easily lured with > wealth, become easy sleeper cells of terror for wealth gains, for a faith > to > prove that they are "devout" to their faith more than the society of the > nation, be monitored and "freedom" to infest the nation with terror should > be given human "rights" to terrorise the innocents and be happy that we are > honouring the "rights " of inhuman individuals who indulge in such > anti-societal acts which are both illegal, immoral to the society and > nation.? > > It is well known that from these nations , our daughters get "grooms" to > marry, then the groom settles down here in the nation, starts to earn with > "business" many a times, illegal, like trafficker of arms, many a times be > a > sleeper cell for the logistic support for the trans-border fanatic.Many > from > these neighbor nations come to this nation, for studies , Karnataka has too > many of them, but never return back, like many of Indians who go abroad, > prefer to stay in that nation with green card or citizenship of that > nation. > > But, do we have in this nation, a system that works to identify a preacher > who settles down to do good to tribal s by converting them? .Do we have > data of students and grooms who never return to their nations after > marriage > or studies.?In any other nation, they have immigration checks, do we have > any.? > > Regards, > > Rajen. > On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 11:00 PM, Taha Mehmood > <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > > > Dear Anivar, > > > > Thank you for posting this story regarding cloning of a so called > > impregnable technology. I am sure this post or news items like this > > one, are going to polarize people who are following the Indian ID card > > story. > > > > Here are some scenarios- > > > > There are those who may look at this story and think that simply > > because someone was able to copy UK national ID card within minutes, > > does not necessarily mean that samples of all the cards in the entire > > world could be copied within minutes. They may also feel that GOI must > > have taken all these things into consideration that is why they have > > entrusted the responsibility of ID project to Nandan Nilekani. One can > > expect arguments emanating from this section to come maybe in -denial > > mode- > > > > Then there are those who are going to look at this story and express a > > range of emotions from shock to concern, to deep concern, to paranoia, > > to phobia, to maybe even panic tending towards mass-hysteria. People > > ascribing to this view may present their thoughts laced with arguments > > related to identity theft, loss of privacy, invasion of privacy, > > private sector taking over the world, or even world becoming anarchic. > > So one could expect the tone of arguments coming from this lot, to be > > either deeply cautionary or celebratory. > > > > A few of us, would be actually wanting to meet the person who did > > this. They may be interested in learning from Laurie, how he achieved > > this feat. This knowledge transfer might have two broad implications, > > either that knowledge may go to the government sector, to be used for > > more stringent coding or consolidation of technological/software locks > > or to the piracy sector to create, build, archive and ultimately share > > knowledge of cracking this technology and then harvesting data and > > subsequently selling it to smaller private buyers who may not have > > deep pockets to legitimately buy it, over the counter, but > > nevertheless share a desire to own and deploy such data or trade such > > data with other members of the corporate tribe. And as is evidenced by > > a recent submission of a minister in our parliament, we know now, how > > truthful and deeply honest, the captains of our industries are. > > > > Then there will be the policy crowd, who are of course, going to > > downplay this story. They might even suggest that people like Laurie > > routinely indulge in this type of stunts for cheap publicity. Before > > we know, another event will take over, like, a news report or a study > > or a report of perceptions of people expressing their total confidence > > in the technology of Identity card or even calls may be made to those > > news organization who are concentrating too much time on stories like > > this, to act responsibly and to report keeping the national security > > issues of a country in mind. > > > > However, I wish to thank you again, though, for bringing this > > particular view to the consideration of readers of this list. > > > > Warm regards > > > > Taha > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Rajen. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Aug 7 15:21:01 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:51:01 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] UK National ID card cloned in 12 minutes In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908070237o757c8349h125405a4ea18d5ee@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090806162500.GB10821@narnia.kingsly.net> <35f96d470908060930h2c6ca6f5n8a879a174306678b@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908061030w94a2f4dxb6b4140ac92f68f@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908070207h2bfcbfdco8abf353b967393c6@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908070237o757c8349h125405a4ea18d5ee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40908070251i2d782d5cmf791c2e4fd2d2552@mail.gmail.com> Dear Murali, Please do not get me wrong but I do not know how deeply probing questions related to the notions of identity and identity cards? If there are any linkages which you think are worth a thought, then would you please share them with us? I, for one, would be extremely curious to know, what you think about the notion of identity and of power ? Warm regards Taha From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Aug 7 15:16:24 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:46:24 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] UK National ID card cloned in 12 minutes In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908070207h2bfcbfdco8abf353b967393c6@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090806162500.GB10821@narnia.kingsly.net> <35f96d470908060930h2c6ca6f5n8a879a174306678b@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908061030w94a2f4dxb6b4140ac92f68f@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908070207h2bfcbfdco8abf353b967393c6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40908070246o4cb39d65m1e28e795d70652d0@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rajen, As I have already expressed my deep gratitude to you in my earlier exchanges, I do not wish to go through the same route again, but I feel compelled to thank you anyways for the sheer range of ideas which you are able to touch in one single mail. I so wish I could answer your concerns appropriately, however, as deeply ignorant, as I am, I do not think that I am worthy of such an endeavor. I do wish and look forward to any thoughts which you may want to share with me regarding the dull and dry notion of -identity- or practices which emanates from this, like -identification-. I maybe more than happy to let you know my rather ill formed and naive and stiff and often raw views of this subject. For anything else, I am sorry but I do not have much to offer. Warm regards Taha From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Aug 7 15:46:50 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:16:50 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] California Supreme Court holds employees' privacy rights not invaded by video surveillance Message-ID: <65be9bf40908070316r1e3bfcdaw74f97bab7c006414@mail.gmail.com> http://www.examiner.com/x-15436-LA-Employment-Law-Examiner~y2009m8d6-California-Supreme-Court-holds-employees-privacy-rights-not-invaded-by-video-surveillance California Supreme Court holds employees' privacy rights not invaded by video surveillance August 6, 5:32 PMLA Employment Law ExaminerAnthony Zaller Plaintiffs Hernandez and Lopez were employed by Hillsides Children Center, Inc., which provided services to children with special needs and who were abused. Hillsides discovered that someone was accessing pornographic websites on a computer located in the Plaintiffs’ office late in the evening. The employer, citing its mission to protect abused children and to protect itself from any legal liability, installed a video camera in Plaintiffs’ office to indentify the perpetrator. Because the websites were only being access at night, the video camera did not record any of Plaintiffs’ activities during the day, and was only turned on at night. The perpetrator was not caught. But Plaintiffs’ discovered the video camera in the office, and filed this lawsuit for violation of their privacy rights. The California Supreme Court noted that to succeed on their privacy claims, Plaintiffs would need to prove that: 1. The plaintiff must possess a legally protected privacy interest, 2. The plaintiff’s expectations of privacy must be reasonable, and 3. The plaintiff must show that the intrusion is so serious in nature, scope, and actual or potential impact as to constitute an egregious breach of social norms. The Court noted that Plaintiffs were able to establish violation of the first two elements in this case– that the employer intentionally intruded into the Plaintiffs’ office in which they had a reasonable expectation of privacy. Offensiveness of the employer’s action However, the Court held that Plaintiffs did not meet their burden of proof for the third element. First, the Court held that the degree and setting of the intrusion into Plaintiffs’ privacy was not very high. The Court noted that the “place, time, and scope” of defendant’s surveillance was not highly offensive. Second, the Court looked at the employers motive and justifications for conducting the surveillance – which had no element of being improper in this case. Given nature Hillsides’ business of helping abused children, it was taking proper action to prevent any possible harm to them. Given these factors, the Court found that the Plaintiffs could not, as a matter of law, prove that a reasonable person would find the intrusion into their privacy offensive. Take away for employers * Do not assume that you have the right to monitor employees during working hours. As the case establishes, employees still have reasonable expectations of privacy at work. * Do not assume a computer monitoring policy applies to video and audio surveillance. The employer in this case tried to argue that the computer monitoring policy diminished Plaintiffs’ expectation of privacy at work, but the Court disagreed because the policy never mentioned the possibility that employees could be videotaped at work. From aashu.gupta20 at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 16:53:13 2009 From: aashu.gupta20 at gmail.com (Aashish Gupta) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:53:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] INVITATION: A Dialogue with Amartya Sen on the Right to Food Act (8 Aug, 11am) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: *INVITATION* * * * * *“Right to Food Act: A Dialogue with Amartya Sen”* * * *(8th August, 11 am to 12.30)* * * * * *Special features:* * * · *Kavita Srivastava (Right to Food Campaign): Presentation of the campaign’s “essential demands”.* * * · *Harsh Mander: Exiling hunger from every home.* * * · *Jean Drèze: A possible framework for the Right to Food Act.* * * · *Special address by Amartya Sen.* * * · *Question-answer session.* * * *Chair: Yogendra Yadav.* * * * * *Venue: Press Club of India, 1 Raisina Road.* *Time: 11 am to 12.30 (please be seated by 10.50).* * * *For further information, please contact Chandni Mehta (9899323965) or Kavita Srivastava (9351562965).* From indersalim at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 16:59:10 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:59:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: The Great Hiroshima Cover-Up Message-ID: <47e122a70908070429r10193bc6t5ba3ddcad7154476@mail.gmail.com> ---------For 64th Anniversary: The Great Hiroshima Cover-Up -- And the Nuclear Fallout for All of Us Today Greg Mitchell August 6, 2009 In the weeks following the atomic attacks on Japan 64 years ago, and then for decades afterward, the United States engaged in airtight suppression of all film shot in Hiroshima and Nagasaki after the bombings. This included footage shot by U.S. Military crews and Japanese newsreel teams. In addition  for many years, all but a handful of newspaper photographs were seized or prohibited. The public did not see any of the newsreel footage for 25 years, and the U.S  Military film remained hidden for nearly four decades. I first probed the coverup back in 1983 in Nuclear Times magazine (where I was editor), and developed it further in later articles and in my 1995 book with Robert Jay Lifton, Hiroshima in America and in a 2005 documentary Original Child Bomb. As editor of Nuclear Times in the early 1980s, I met Herbert Sussan, one of the members of the U.S. Military film crew, and Erik Barnouw, the famed documentarian who first showed some of the Japanese footage on American TV in 1970. In fact, that newsreel footage might have disappeared forever if the Japanese filmmakers had not hidden one print from the Americans in a ceiling. The color U.S. Military footage would remain hidden until the early 1980s, and has never been fully aired. It rests today at the National Archives in College Park, Md., in the form of 90,000 feet of raw footage labeled #342 USAF. I have a VHS copy of all of it today. When that footage finally emerged, I spoke with and corresponded with the man at the center of this drama: Lt. Col. (Ret.) Daniel A. McGovern, who directed the U.S. Military film-makers in 1945-1946, managed the Japanese footage, and then kept watch on all of the top-secret material for decades. "I always had the sense," McGovern told me, "that people in the Atomic Energy Commission were sorry we had dropped the bomb. The Air Force -- it was also sorry. I was told by people in the Pentagon that they didn't want those [film] images out because they showed effects on man, woman and child. ..They didn't want the general public to know what their weapons had done -- at a time they were planning on more bomb tests. We didn't want the material out because...we were sorry for our sins." Sussan, meanwhile, struggled for years to get some of the American footage aired on national TV, taking his request as high as President Truman, Robert F. Kennedy and Edward R. Murrow, to no avail. More recently, McGovern declared that Americans should have seen the damage wrought by the bomb. "The main reason it was classified was...because of the horror, the devastation," he said. Because the footage shot in Hiroshima and Nagasaki was hidden for so long, the atomic bombings quickly sank, unconfronted and unresolved, into the deeper recesses of American awareness, as a costly nuclear arms race, and nuclear proliferation, accelerated. In 2005, Editor & Publisher (where I am editor) broke the news that articles written by famed Chicago Daily News war correspondent George Weller about the effects of the atomic bomb dropped on Nagasaki were finally published, in Japan, almost six decades after they had been spiked by U.S. Officials. But suppressing film footage shot in Hiroshima and Nagasaki was even more significant, as this country rushed into the nuclear age with its citizens having neither a true understanding of the effects of the bomb on human beings, nor why the atomic attacks drew condemnation around the world. The common view abroad, and among many U.S. Historians, is that Russia's entry into the war (long scheduled and carried out on August 8) would have forced a Japanese surrender long before any U.S. Invasion took place. Gen. Dwight D  Eisenhower himself later said it was not necessary to hit Japan "with that awful thing." The atomic cover-up also reveals what can happen in any country that carries out deadly attacks on civilians in any war (such as Japan's policy in China in World War II) and then keeps images of what occurred from its own people. The Japanese Newsreel Footage On August 6, 1945, the United States dropped an atomic bomb over the center of Hiroshima, killing at least 70,000 civilians instantly and perhaps 50,000 more in the days and months to follow. Three days later, it exploded another atomic bomb over Nagasaki, slightly off target, killing 40,000 immediately and dooming tens of thousands of others. Within days, Japan had surrendered, and the U.S. Readied plans for occupying the defeated country -- and documenting the first atomic catastrophe. But the Japanese also wanted to study it. Within days of the second atomic attack, officials at the Tokyo-based newsreel company Nippon Eigasha discussed shooting film in the two stricken cities. In early September, just after the Japanese surrender, and as the American occupation began, director Sueo Ito set off for Nagasaki. There his crew filmed the utter destruction near ground zero and scenes in hospitals of the badly burned and those suffering from the lingering effects of radiation. On Sept. 15, another crew headed for Hiroshima. When the first rushes came back to Toyko, Akira Iwasaki, the chief producer, felt "every frame burned into my brain," he later said. At this point, the American public knew little about conditions in the atomic cities beyond Japanese assertions that a mysterious affliction was attacking many of those who survived the initial blasts (claims that were largely taken to be propaganda). Newspaper photographs of victims were non-existent, or censored. Life magazine would later observe that for years the world...knew only the physical facts of atomic destruction." Tens of thousands of American GIs occupied the two cities. Because of the alleged absence of residual radiation, no one was urged to take precautions. Then, on October 24, 1945, a Japanese cameraman in Nagasaki was ordered to stop shooting by an American military policeman. His film, and then the rest of the 26,000 feet of Nippon Eisasha footage, was confiscated by the U.S. General Headquarters (GHQ). An order soon arrived banning all further filming. It was at this point that Lt. Daniel McGovern took charge. Shooting the U.S. Military Footage In early September, 1945, less than a month after the two bombs fell, Lt. McGovern -- who as a member of Hollywood's famed First Motion Picture Unit shot some of the footage for William Wyler's "Memphis Belle" -- had become one of the first Americans to arrive in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. He was a director with the U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey, organized by the Army the previous November to study the effects of the air campaign against Germany, and now Japan. As he made plans to shoot the official American record, McGovern learned about the seizure of the Japanese footage. He felt it would be a waste to not take advantage of the newsreel footage, noting in a letter to his superiors that "the conditions under which it was taken will not be duplicated, until another atomic bomb is released under combat conditions." McGovern proposed hiring some of the Japanese crew to edit and "caption" the material, so it would have "scientific value." He took charge of this effort in early January 1946, even as the Japanese feared that, when they were done  they would never see even a scrap of their film again. At the same time, McGovern was ordered by General Douglas MacArthur on January 1, 1946 to document the results of the U.S. air campaign in more than 20 Japanese cities. His crew would shoot exclusively on color film, Kodachrome and Technicolor, rarely used at the time even in Hollywood. McGovern assembled a crew of eleven, including two civilians. Third in command was a young lieutenant from New York named Herbert Sussan. The unit left Tokyo in a specially outfitted train, and made it to Nagasaki. "Nothing and no one had prepared me for the devastation I met there," Sussan later told me. "We were the only people with adequate ability and equipment to make a record of this holocaust...I felt that if we did not capture this horror on film, no one would ever really understand the dimensions of what had happened. At that time people back home had not seen anything but black and white pictures of blasted buildings or a mushroom cloud." Along with the rest of McGovern's crew, Sussan documented the physical effects of the bomb, including the ghostly shadows of vaporized civilians burned into walls; and, most chillingly, dozens of people in hospitals who had survived (at least momentarily) and were asked to display their burns, scars, and other lingering effects for the camera as a warning to the world. At the Red Cross Hospital in Hiroshima, a Japanese physician traced the hideous, bright red scars that covered several of the patients -- and then took off his white doctor's shirt and displayed his own burns and cuts. After sticking a camera on a rail car and building their own tracks through the ruins, the Americans filmed hair-raising tracking shots that could have been lifted right from a Hollywood movie. Their chief cameramen was a Japanese man, Harry Mimura, who in 1943 had shot Sanshiro Sugata, the first feature film by a then-unknown Japanese director named Akira Kurosawa. The Suppression Begins While all this was going on, the Japanese newsreel team was completing its work of editing and labeling all their black and white footage into a rough cut of just under three hours. At this point, several members of Japanese team took the courageous step of ordering from the lab a duplicate of the footage they had shot before the Americans took over the project. Director Ito later said: "The four of us agreed to be ready for 10 years of hard labor in the case of being discovered." One incomplete, silent print would reside in a ceiling until the Occupation ended. The negative of the finished Japanese film, nearly 15,000 feet of footage on 19 reels, was sent off to the U.S. in early May 1946. The Japanese were also ordered to include in this shipment all photographs and related material. The footage would be labeled SECRET and not emerge from the shadows for more than 20 years. The following month, McGovern was abruptly ordered to return to the U.S. He hauled the 90,000 feet of color footage, on dozens of reels in huge footlockers, to the Pentagon and turned it over to General Orvil Anderson. Locked up and declared top secret, it did not see the light of day for more than 30 years. McGovern would be charged with watching over it. Sussan would become obsessed with finding it and getting it aired. Fearful that his film might get "buried," McGovern stayed on at the Pentagon as an aide to Gen. Anderson, who was fascinated by the footage and had no qualms about showing it to the American people. "He was that kind of man, he didn't give a damn what people thought," McGovern told me. "He just wanted the story told." In an article in his hometown Buffalo Evening News, McGovern said that he hoped that "this epic will be made available to the American public." He planned to call the edited movie Japan in Defeat. Once they eyeballed the footage, however, most of the top brass didn't want it widely shown and the Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) was also opposed, according to McGovern. It nixed a Warner Brothers feature film project based on the footage that Anderson had negotiated, while paying another studio about $80,000 to help make four training films. In a March 3, 1947 memo, Francis E. Rundell, a major in the Air Corps, explained that the film would be classified "secret." This was determined after study of subject material, especially concerning footage taken at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It is believed that the information contained in the films should be safeguarded until cleared by the Atomic Energy Commission." After the training films were completed, the status would be raised to "Top Secret" pending final classification by the AEC. The color footage was shipped to the Wright-Patterson base in Ohio. McGovern went along after being told to put an I.D. number on the film "and not let anyone touch it -- and that's the way it stayed," as he put it. After cataloging it, he placed it in a vault in the top secret area. "Dan McGovern stayed with the film all the time," Sussan later said. "He told me they could not release the film [because] what it showed was too horrible." Sussan wrote a letter to President Truman, suggesting that a film based on the footage "would vividly and clearly reveal the implications and effects of the weapons that confront us at this serious moment in our history." A reply from a Truman aide threw cold water on that idea, saying such a film would lack "wide public appeal." McGovern, meanwhile, continued to "babysit" the film, now at Norton Air Force base in California. "It was never out of my control," he said later, but he couldn't make a film out of it any more than Sussan could (but unlike Herb, he at least knew where it was). The Japanese Footage Emerges At the same time, McGovern was looking after the Japanese footage. Fearful that it might get lost forever in the military/government bureaucracy, he secretly made a 16 mm print and deposited it in the U.S. Air Force Central Film Depository at Wright-Patterson. There it remained out of sight, and generally out of mind. (The original negative and production materials remain missing, according to Abe Mark Nornes, who teaches at the University of Michigan and has researched the Japanese footage more than anyone.) The Japanese government repeatedly asked the U.S. for the full footage of what was known in that country as "the film of illusion," to no avail. A rare article about what it called this "sensitive" dispute appeared in the New York Times on May 18, 1967, declaring right in its headline that the film had been "Suppressed by U.S. for 22 Years." Surprisingly, it revealed that while some of the footage was already in Japan (likely a reference to the film hidden in the ceiling), the U.S. had put a "hold" on the Japanese using it -- even though the American control of that country had ceased many years earlier. Despite rising nuclear fears in the 1960s, before and after the Cuban Missile Crisis, few in the U.S. challenged the consensus view that dropping the bomb on two Japanese cities was necessary. The United States maintained its "first-use" nuclear policy: Under certain circumstances it would strike first with the bomb and ask questions later. In other words, there was no real taboo against using the bomb. This notion of acceptability had started with Hiroshima. A firm line against using nuclear weapons had been drawn -- in the sand. The U.S., in fact, had threatened to use nuclear weapons during the Cuban Missile Crisis and on other occasions. On Sept. 12, 1967, the Air Force transferred the Japanese footage to the National Archives Audio Visual Branch in Washington, with the film "not to be released without approval of DOD (Department of Defense)." Then, one morning in the summer of 1968, Erik Barnouw, author of landmark histories of film and broadcasting, opened his mail to discover a clipping from a Tokyo newspaper sent by a friend. It indicated that the U.S. had finally shipped to Japan a copy of black and white newsreel footage shot in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The Japanese had negotiated with the State Department for its return. >From the Pentagon, Barnouw learned in 1968 that the original nitrate film had been quietly turned over to the National Archives, so he went to take a look. Soon Barnouw realized that, despite its marginal film quality, "enough of the footage was unforgettable in its implications, and historic in its importance, to warrant duplicating all of it," he later wrote. Attempting to create a subtle, quiet, even poetic, black and white film, he and his associates cut it from 160 to 16 minutes, with a montage of human effects clustered near the end for impact. Barnouw arranged a screening at the Museum of Modern Art in New York, and invited the press. A throng turned out and sat in respectful silence at its finish. (One can only imagine what impact the color footage with many more human effects would have had.) Hiroshima-Nagasaki 1945" proved to be a sketchy but quite moving document of the aftermath of the bombing, captured in grainy but often startling black and white images: shadows of objects or people burned into walls, ruins of schools, miles of razed landscape viewed from the roof of a building. In the weeks ahead, however, none of the (then) three TV networks expressed interest in airing it. "Only NBC thought it might use the film," Barnouw later wrote, "if it could find a 'news hook.' We dared not speculate what kind of event this might call for." But then an article appeared in Parade magazine, and an editorial in the Boston Globe blasted the networks, saying that everyone in the country should see this film: "Television has brought the sight of war into America's sitting rooms from Vietnam. Surely it can find 16 minutes of prime time to show Americans what the first A-bombs, puny by today's weapons, did to people and property 25 years ago." This at last pushed public television into the void. What was then called National Educational Television (NET) agreed to show the documentary on August 3, 1970, to coincide with the 25th anniversary of dropping the bomb. "I feel that classifying all of this filmed material was a misuse of the secrecy system since none of it had any military or national security aspect at all," Barnouw told me. "The reason must have been -- that if the public had seen it and Congressmen had seen it -- it would have been much harder to appropriate money for more bombs." The American Footage Comes Out About a decade later, by pure chance, Herb Sussan would spark the emergence of the American footage, ending its decades in the dark. In the mid-1970s, Japanese antinuclear activists, led by a Tokyo teacher named Tsutomu Iwakura, discovered that few pictures of the aftermath of the atomic bombings existed in their country. Many had been seized by the U.S. military after the war, they learned, and taken out of Japan. The Japanese had as little visual exposure to the true effects of the bomb as most Americans. Activists managed to track down hundreds of pictures in archives and private collections and published them in a popular book. In 1979 they mounted an exhibit at the United Nations in New York. There, by chance, Iwakura met Sussan, who told him about the U.S. military footage. Iwakura made a few calls and found that the color footage, recently declassified, might be at the National Archives. A trip to Washington, D.C. verified this. He found eighty reels of film, labeled #342 USAF, with the reels numbered 11000 to 11079. About one-fifth of the footage covered the atomic cities. According to a shot list, reel #11010 included, for example: School, deaf and dumb, blast effect, damaged Commercial school demolished School, engineering, demolished.School, Shirayama elementary, demolished, blast effect Tenements, demolished." The film had been quietly declassified a few years earlier, but no one in the outside world knew it. An archivist there told me at the time, "If no one knows about the film to ask for it, it's as closed as when it was classified." Eventually 200,000 Japanese citizens contributed half a million dollars and Iwakura was able to buy the film. He then traveled around Japan filming survivors who had posed for Sussan and McGovern in 1946. Iwakura quickly completed a documentary called Prophecy and in late spring 1982 arranged for a New York premiere. That fall a small part of the McGovern/Sussan footage turned up for the first time in an American film, one of the sensations of the New York Film Festival, called Dark Circle. It's co-director, Chris Beaver, told me, "No wonder the government didn't want us to see it. I think they didn't want Americans to see themselves in that picture. It's one thing to know about that and another thing to see it." Despite this exposure, not a single story had yet appeared in an American newspaper about the shooting of the footage, its suppression or release. And Sussan was now ill with a form of lymphoma doctors had found in soldiers exposed to radiation in atomic tests during the 1950s -- or in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In late 1982, I met Sussan and Erik Barnouw -- and talked on several occasions with Daniel McGovern, out in Northridge, California. "It would make a fine documentary even today," McGovern said of the color footage. Wouldn't it be wonderful to have a movie of the burning of Atlanta?" After he hauled the footage back to the Pentagon, McGovern said, he was told that under no circumstances would the footage be released for outside use. They were fearful of it being circulated," McGovern said. He confirmed that the color footage, like the black and white, had been declassified over time  taking it from top secret to "for public release" (but only if the public knew about it and asked for it). Still, the question of precisely why the footage remained secret for so long lingered. Here McGovern added his considerable voice. "The main reason it was classified was because of the horror, the devastation," he said. "The medical effects were pretty gory. The attitude was: do not show any medical effects. Don't make people sick." But who was behind this? "I always had the sense," McGovern answered, "that people in the AEC were sorry they had dropped the bomb. The Air Force -- it was also sorry. I was told by people in the Pentagon that they didn't want those images out because they showed effects on man, woman and child. But the AEC, they were the ones that stopped it from coming out. They had power of God over everybody," he declared. "If it had anything to do with nukes, they had to see it. They were the ones who destroyed a lot of film and pictures of the first U.S. nuclear tests after the war." Even so, McGovern believed, his footage might have surfaced "if someone had grabbed the ball and run with it but the AEC did not want it released." As Dark Circle director Chris Beaver had said, "With the government trying to sell the public on a new civil defense program and Reagan arguing that a nuclear war is survivable, this footage could be awfully bad publicity." Today In the summer of 1984, I made my own pilgrimage to the atomic cities, to walk in the footsteps of Dan McGovern and Herb Sussan, and meet some of the people they filmed in 1946. (The month-long grant was arranged by the current mayor of Hiroshima, Tad Akiba.) By then, the McGovern/ Sussan footage had turned up in several new documentaries. On September 2, 1985, however, Herb Sussan passed away. His final request to his children: Would they scatter his ashes at ground zero in Hiroshima? In the mid-1990s, researching Hiroshima in America, a book I would write with Robert Jay Lifton, I discovered the deeper context for suppression of the U.S. Army film: it was part of a broad effort to suppress a wide range of material related to the atomic bombings, including photographs, newspaper reports on radiation effects, information about the decision to drop the bomb, even a Hollywood movie. The 50th anniversary of the bombing drew extensive print and television coverage -- and wide use of excerpts from the McGovern/Sussan footage -- but no strong shift in American attitudes on the use of the bomb. Then, in 2003, as adviser to a documentary film, Original Child Bomb, I urged director Carey Schonegevel to draw on the atomic footage as much as possible. She not only did so but also obtained from McGovern's son copies of home movies he had shot in Japan while shooting the official film. Original Child Bomb went on to debut at the 2004 Tribeca Film Festival, win a major documentary award, and debut on the Sundance cable channel. After 60 years at least a small portion of that footage reached part of the American public in the unflinching and powerful form its creators intended. Americans who saw were finally able to fully judge for themselves what McGovern and Sussan were trying to accomplish in shooting the film, why the authorities felt they had to suppress it, and what impact their footage, if widely aired  might have had on the nuclear arms race -- and the nuclear proliferation that plagues, and endangers, us today. Greg Mitchell is the editor of E&P and co-author of "Hiroshima in America." His latest book is "Why Obama Won." His email is: gmitchell at editorandpublisher.com :: Article nr. 56729 sent on 07-aug-2009 02:44 ECT www.uruknet.info?p=56729 -- From murali.chalam at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 17:34:06 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:34:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] UK National ID card cloned in 12 minutes In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40908070251i2d782d5cmf791c2e4fd2d2552@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090806162500.GB10821@narnia.kingsly.net> <35f96d470908060930h2c6ca6f5n8a879a174306678b@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908061030w94a2f4dxb6b4140ac92f68f@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908070207h2bfcbfdco8abf353b967393c6@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908070237o757c8349h125405a4ea18d5ee@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908070251i2d782d5cmf791c2e4fd2d2552@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908070504v784ffe1br4ac13ff87dc5ecb2@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taha, Please do not unduely get troubled over the identity questions. The identity I had referred to was merely related to Identification of Bhumi Putras or born citizens. Regards, V Murali On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 3:21 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > Dear Murali, > > Please do not get me wrong but I do not know how deeply probing > questions related to the notions of identity and identity cards? If > there are any linkages which you think are worth a thought, then would > you please share them with us? > > I, for one, would be extremely curious to know, what you think about > the notion of identity and of power ? > > Warm regards > > Taha > From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Fri Aug 7 19:40:04 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:10:04 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One must be blind to miss the glaring bias in this what could best be described as propaganda material (if this was an essay, then Goebbels deserved a ‘Noble’ for literature) . Regards all LA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 21:38:12 +0530 > From: justjunaid at gmail.com > To: 425063.70526.qm at web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com; reader-list at sarai.net > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on > > Hi Kshmendra, > > You have described Prof. Shapiro's essay as "replete with prejudice, bias, > ill-concieved presumptions and mis-constructed deductions". Could you > actually elaborate and give reasons for your characterization of the essay. > > Junaid > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ News, sports, entertainment and fine living…learn the ropes on MSN India http://in.msn.com From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Aug 7 20:16:41 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 15:46:41 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] UK National ID card cloned in 12 minutes In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908070504v784ffe1br4ac13ff87dc5ecb2@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090806162500.GB10821@narnia.kingsly.net> <35f96d470908060930h2c6ca6f5n8a879a174306678b@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908061030w94a2f4dxb6b4140ac92f68f@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908070207h2bfcbfdco8abf353b967393c6@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908070237o757c8349h125405a4ea18d5ee@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908070251i2d782d5cmf791c2e4fd2d2552@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908070504v784ffe1br4ac13ff87dc5ecb2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40908070746k6502f7ffr91d95dad3d656ca7@mail.gmail.com> Dear V Murali, 'Bhumiputra' is an interesting notion. If one is a 'bhumiputra' then one knows that isn't it, so why take a token from someone to verify that? There seems to be a glitch here isn't it? Therefore, I am curious to know the nature of the need, which prompts a 'bhumiputra' to ask for an identity token and the nature of the need for anyone to give a such a token to ascertain one's status as a legitimate 'bhumiputra'. Do you rally think that bhumiputra is a precise social category of identification or you foresee it as a broad idea/notion which could be subject to a range of contesting claims? One more thing- when you say 'bhumi' -what measure of scale are you referring to? Is it a- a home, a hospital, a village, an island, a town, a city, a metropolitan area, a region, a federal state, a provincial state, a fantastical landmass, a mythical landmass, a piece of land enclosed within political boundaries, or a piece of land enclosed within geographical boundaries? Personally, I don't know, therefore I would be glad, if you please throw some light on this. I also have a feeling that even as a socio-spatial category 'bhumiputra' appears unsettled, is that so? I know, I could be absolutely wrong here, but nevertheless, I would like to know what you think? Warm regards Taha From kaksanjay at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 20:45:33 2009 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 20:45:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Message-ID: <5c5369880908070815m4776168fg3a604d93086b46e2@mail.gmail.com> Yes, I do agree with Junaid that Kshemendra Kaul should engage with Richard Shapiro's arguments, rather than summarily dismiss them... I just received a fwd about the Shapiro piece where Kshemendra's dismissal has already become a venerable quotation for Aalok! Before it becomes graven in stone, we all look forward to a serious engagement. In the spirit of this Reader List, if nothing else! Sanjay Kak ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 8:01 PM Subject: -=Kashmir-Interchange=- Requesting KP intellect - Please respond toRichard Shapiro To: KPNetwork , kashmir-interchange at googlegroups.com, kp-middleeast at yahoogroups.co.in Without any doubt there is a Bank of Intellect that exists amongst KPs, even though it might not be reflected in such habitual 'Hate-Mongers' who while not contributing anything productive to this world only do harm to the KPs and to India. This request is for the KP Bank of Intellect and not the 'Hate-Mongers'. Reproduced below is a piece by Richard Shapiro "A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change" As can be seen after a read, the article (as someone described it):        "...is replete with prejudice, bias, ill-concieved presumptions and mis-constructed deductions. The sweeping generalisations he makes and his misrepresentations bordering on outright lies are only to be expected with his more than evident prejudice and bias." Richard Shapiro is "Chair and Associate Professor, Department of Social and Cultural Anthropology at the California Institute of Integral Studies in San Francisco. (CIIS)" Shapiro is reported as being the spouse of Angana Chatterji who is "Professor of Social and Cultural Anthropology at California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS)". Those who know about Angana Chatterji's  'work' will immediately recognise not only the connections but also the commonality of attitudes towards India  and Kashmir. The KP Bank of Intellect is requested to suitably and through appropiate forums counter the 'case' being presented by Richard Shapiro. Again, the "Hate-Mongers" are requested not to try and essay responses to Shapiro because both their intellectual bankruptcy, ill-informed and compartmentalised world-view and foolish attitudes will be counter-productive. ...... aalok aima South Asia Citizens Web "A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change" Tuesday, 4 August 2009 RICHARD SHAPIRO sacw.net What are the various roles that diverse constituencies must play to facilitate political processes that undo militarization and subjugation in Indian administered Kashmir? How can systemic structures that institutionalize violence, cultural annihilation, economic impoverishment, and political disempowerment be countered through non-violent, ethical resistance? What alliances are necessary to allow hope for overcoming cycles of oppression and breaking with histories of domination? How can international, national, and local actors and institutions work together to disrupt socially unnecessary suffering and ameliorate the conditions of existence? What forces must cohere to enable a just peace to emerge in a democratic Kashmir in the foreseeable future? Numerous obstacles present tremendous challenges to movements for social justice. The current world order is predicated on systems of inequality that hierarchically divide countries, peoples, cultures, classes, genders, sexualities, ethnicities, and faith traditions to the benefit of the few and the detriment of the many. Dominant powers prescribe the rules of the game to their advantage and utilize knowledge, technology, and markets to structure social relations in their interests. The new global order presents itself as the best of all possible worlds in which sovereign nation-states organized through representative democracy, rule of law, free markets with government regulation, Enlightenment rationality, and human rights are promised as the solution to the problems of poverty, war, ecological devastation, genocide, and terrorism. This dominant narrative of progress through the spread of capitalism organized in nation-states and guided by knowledge has attained hegemony as it has captured the imagination of postcolonial nations like India. Postcolonial nations have largely reproduced the structures of colonial oppression and organized themselves to become players in the existing global order as militarized, hyper-masculinized, nuclear powers measuring their worth on the basis of GDP (Gross Domestic Product). Emerging middle-classes of massive proportion in postcolonial nations like India buttress this process of nation building that mirrors and enforces dynamics of globalization through the production of unparalleled poverty, massive and multiple dislocations, genocide of indigenous peoples, ecological disaster, and abundant psychological malaise. India is embraced by the international community, meaning largely the United States and Western Europe, precisely because it marches in step with the new world order. India amasses great cultural capital as “the world’s largest democracy” in spite of the fact that it is home to 40% of the worlds most economically destitute, and seeks to constitute itself as a nation through policies that disregard the needs of the vast majority of its population. India is inventing nothing new in its self-constitution as a powerful nation-state. National identity is being fabricated through the equation of India with Hindus, in blatant form in entities like the RSS and BJP, and in more subtle form in the Congress and progressive Indian citizens for whom nationalism linked to ’Hindu cultural reassertion’ is an unreflective response to a colonial past. The equation of Hinduism (unity in diversity) and Christianity with tolerance for difference, and Islam with terrorism, backwardness, and fanaticism, functions as a global trope supportive of unleashing disproportionate violence on Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Palestine, as well as within the territory of India in Gujurat, Orissa, and in the ’disputed territory’ of Kashmir. India forms itself as nation with unexamined Hindu majoritarianism at its base, just as unexamined Christian cultural dominance organizes the United States, rendering explorations of the links between religionization, nationalism and particular secularisms close to impossible. India is also typical in its self-formation as nation in fashioning internal and external enemies as crucial to defining itself, and super-exploiting its most proximate ’others’ to fuel its prosperity. European nations had the Jew as internal enemy. The United States is founded on the backs of its twin others - enslaved Africans and massacred Native Americans. India has as its main ’internal other’ the Muslim, who can take no solace in also occupying the role as external enemy in India’s dominant narrative. This double site is what the state uses to legitimate the brutalization of the Kashmiri people. Firstly, there is India’s need for a majority Muslim state within its borders to legitimate itself as a progressive, pluralistic, secular nation. Without a Muslim majority state within India, India cannot as easily legitimate itself as a progressive member of the new global order. Secondly there is India’s need to establish national identities that take precedence over regional, local, traditional identities. As a nation, India is in the process of seeking: (1) to establish territorial dominion over the current boundaries of the nation, (2) attain a monopoly on the means of violence, and (3) organize human and natural resources to enhance the productivity and power of the nation. Every nation that has achieved the normative status of modern democracy has utilized sustained and prolific violence to realize these three imperatives and in the process establish its identity. India is in a very vulnerable moment in this process as is evident from an examination of the myriad territories and forces fighting for autonomy in some form from the Indian state. Part of the strategy to foster national identity, simultaneous to providing very little to the vast majority of its population, and in fact fostering mal-development that impoverishes and displaces poor, rural ’citizens’, is to fabricate an ’us’ that must protect itself from ’them’. Without internal enemies India cannot unify itself as a nation. This internal enemy is also resolutely claimed as integral to India. The state and its loyal subjects repeat the same refrain: ’Kashmir is an integral part of India.’ ’Kashmir is integral to India.’ Kashmir is the other that is integral to the self, a difference that is integral to the identity of India. How then does India treat this other, this integral difference? To debase, devalue, disrespect, destroy the people, culture, history, land, waters, aspirations, imaginations, passions, thoughts, of this other that is claimed as integral to self reveals much about India’s current state of existence. What other measure is available to us to assess ourselves as ethical entities than how we treat the other, how we engage the differences to which we are ethically obliged to respond? What nation has satisfactorily answered to this call? If a day arrives when Kashmir is ’a nation unto itself’, independent and sovereign, an equal to all other nations, will Kashmir point the nation-state in a new direction? Will the differences integral to Kashmir be respected, affirmed, heard and engaged? Will ’the other’ be the call to ’the self’ to practice hospitality? Will the Gujur, the village woman who buried loved ones and waits in silence for words of/from other loved ones, the atheist, the ardent believer, the Shia, the Sufi, the pundit, the Buddhist, the differently abled, the homosexual, the beggar, the prostitute, be welcomed as participants in constructing a nation that will be ’a light unto other nations’? Will the other be welcomed without the demand or structural incentive to assimilate, to mirror/mimic dominance to be recognized as human? These questions are too much, perhaps even unfair. Yet, is it not necessary to raise them? Kashmir occupies a literal and imaginary border as inside and outside of India in ways that structure an impossible predicament. The state (and its elites and middle-classes) does not trust Kashmiris whose allegiance is always presumed to lie with Pakistan as an Islamic Republic, thus denying Kashmiris the rights of citizens of India, while asserting the inviolability of its sovereignty over Kashmir as a secular, democratic nation governed by equality under rule of law. The distrust legitimates military rule organized through special laws as necessary to provide law and order as a matter of internal security. Thus, on the basis of being part of a democratic state, the rights granted citizens of such a state are denied to Kashmiris. Inclusion in nation is coupled with dispossession from historical memory, rights, and life. India legitimates its mistreatment through a logic originating with European nation-states. This denial of civil and human rights, rule of law, and the freedoms of citizenship to Kashmiris is because the state must protect itself from forces within itself that threaten its character as a lawful, democratic nation. India must violate what is most inviolable, through a state of exception (the use of law to suspend law as definitive of sovereignty), to protect itself. The discourse requires the allegiance of the Kashmiri people to India, as proof that Kashmiris are not what the nation suspects - traitors and terrorists, as precondition to access to the rights of citizenship. These same rights of citizenship provided by the nation, while denied to Kashmiris, are used by India to justify its claims to being a legitimate state entitled to act as it does in Kashmir. As a legitimate state, India is predicated on civil rights and rule of law that it may legitimately suspend in the name of national security. Kashmiris must align with India given this legitimacy, while living as subjects without rights in so far as the state defines them as a threat to its sovereignty. India must violate what gives it legitimacy in order to protect itself from the internal enemy integral to it. India must destroy itself to protect itself. The state of exception produces a state of autoimmunity. India is also asserting itself as superior to other regional nation-states, and an emerging player in relation to Western Europe and the United States. Like other powerful democracies, India is entitled to do whatever is necessary to fight terrorism and strengthen itself as a powerful, sovereign, capitalist nation, aligned with the movement of progress (dominance). Kashmiris are placed in a situation where allegiance to India as prerequisite to participation in a lawful democracy involves allegiance to a state that has no rational basis to demand or expect allegiance from the people of Kashmir. India needs to exaggerate the degree of cross-border infiltration and armed Islamist militancy to rationalize 500,000+ troops, blurred boundaries between police and army, and massive intervention in daily life through systematic surveillance, land seizures, checkpoints, torture, disappearances, gendered and sexualized violence, fake encounter deaths and countless daily humiliations calculated to break the spirit of the Kashmiri people. This reality is currently resisted through mass demonstrations, regular protests, strategic use of elections, strategic boycott of elections, navigating restrictions on ’free press’, civil society mobilizations, legal cases, an International Tribunal, and regular acts of dignity, courage, and faith that characterize the present in Kashmir. India demonstrates the persona all too common in the ’league of nations’ - to act with impunity and disregard for international law and local demands for justice. India uses this fiction of the Kashmiri as existing in the shadowy space of inside/outside the nation to legitimate an occupation that ignores the historical particularity of Kashmir and the promises made to the people of Kashmir to determine its own future. The plight of Kashmiri pundits also becomes an opportunity for the state to legitimate regularized violence and systematic oppression of Kashmiris. Were all Kashmiris, whether currently residing in the state of Jammu/Kashmir or elsewhere, to be given voice to express their will, free from coercion, retribution, and manipulation, the outcome would not be in doubt. Kashmir is the longest standing disputed area in the United Nations, the most militarized spot on earth, and a drain on the hopes for prosperity, peace and freedom for people throughout the subcontinent, and the world. There is no moving toward peaceful coexistence between India and Pakistan, no stabilization of the region, no possibility for global nuclear disarmament, no hope for forms of development that prioritize sustainability and cultural survival over militarization, urbanization, and middle-class consumerism, no space for the impossible healing through mourning/memorializing the trauma of Partition, without granting self-determination to the people of Kashmir. The realization of that which is demanded by rationality in service of justice and emancipation is always against the odds. In relation to Kashmir, a more peaceful future requires at least four interrelated movements: (1) Massive, non-violent, ethical dissent within Kashmiri civil society must continue and expand, attentive to alliances that build stronger relations between men and women, youth and adults, various faith communities, urban and rural, rich and poor, facilitative of inclusive forms of polity that enable a diverse, pluralistic movement for freedom. (2) Leadership must form a unified coalition that activates and learns from the multiple constituencies that make up Kashmiri society. Divergent desires and imaginations regarding the future of Kashmir should be encouraged and discussed, outside the search for homogeneity or conformity. A Kashmir free of subjugation should enable multiple forms of life through participatory democracy, just governance, and economic practice promoting health, education, and individual and collective prosperity. Natural resources, like water, should be both safeguarded, and utilized for sustainable development. Cultural heritage should be understood as an inheritance of all Kashmiris to fashion a unique society nurturing hospitality, innovation, and multicultural polity. (3) Education and mobilization to shift public opinion in India must be undertaken throughout civil society to expand pressure on the Indian state. Citizen delegations from the various states and communities of India must visit Kashmir to learn first hand about the atrocities, resistances, hopes, and concerns prevalent in Kashmir. Such delegations must bring their new understandings to their neighborhoods, schools, workplaces, and places of worship to facilitate discussion and reflection that expand the voices of those who demand that illegal and immoral action in Kashmir done in their name immediately cease. Institutions in India must sponsor delegations from Kashmir, composed of diverse peoples who constitute Kashmiri society, to share the realities they have suffered and the need for alliance toward justice. Hindu faith communities must forge relationships with social justice movements in civil society in Kashmir to oppose Hindu majoritarian dominance and insist that the Indian state demilitarize the state of Jammu & Kashmir, become accountable to international agreements, rule of law, and human rights as the first step on the road to affirming the right of Kashmir to self-determination. Universities and the press must play a strong role in addressing the history and present of Kashmir to empower students and the citizenry of India to participate as informed members of a democratic republic, whose resources and conscience are systematically misused and violated by their government. (4) International solidarities from citizens, governmental and non-governmental organizations, students, workers, professionals, public intellectuals, faith communities, and all interested parties must be organized to educate, inform, advocate, and mobilize for the liberation of Kashmir. International institutions must be both utilized and strengthened as legitimate sites able to hold nation-states legally accountable for their actions. Research, education, and publication on the reality of present-day Kashmir and its modern history must be supported by and within universities, think tanks, and civil society forums. Campuses must become sites where students mobilize themselves to exert public pressure to ethically resolve the situation in Kashmir. Resistance in all four ’sites’ must struggle to establish alliances, clarify goals, mobilize resources, deconstruct desires, and carve out space where different forms of polity and community, promoting ethical dissent, may live. To commit to these practices secures no guarantees. The process must draw from the resolve of Kashmiris to struggle for justice and strengthen this resolve through principled alliance that breaks the isolation and despair that accompanies any people subjected to brutal mistreatment. The multiple legacies that inspire and haunt us must become the very sustenance that, through sharing, nurtures our struggle. Allow me to conclude by drawing from a source common to the three Abrahamic traditions, and of universal relevance in the present, Deuteronomy 16:20, Justice, Justice, You Shall Pursue. (Richard Shapiro is Chair and Associate Professor, Department of Social and Cultural Anthropology at the California Institute of Integral Studies in San Francisco.) http://www.sacw.net/article1090.html --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Websites: http://shehjar.kashmirgroup.com                 http://kashmirgroup.com                 http://www.indocommunity.us You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "KashmirInterchange" group. Disclaimer: Views and opinions expressed are only of the persons posting the mail and not of the Owner/Moderator of Kashmir-Interchange group and will not be responsible for the contents. To post to this group, send email to Kashmir-Interchange at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to Kashmir-Interchange-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Kashmir-Interchange?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 22:21:05 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 22:21:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 8 Message-ID: Online edition of India's National Newspaper Thursday, Nov 21, 2002 Group Publications Business Line The Sportstar Frontline The Hindu About Us Contact Us *Other States * News: Front Page | National | Southern States | Other States| International | Opinion| Business | Sport| Science & Tech | Miscellaneous| Advts: Classifieds | Employment | Obituary| Other States - Rajasthan [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] * `Jaipur declaration' calls for food security * By Our Special Correspondent JAIPUR NOV. 20. Experts and planners who deliberated on the social security here for the past two days have expressed the opinion that this was the most "opportune'' time to declare and implement the "right to food'' in the country when the godowns are burgeoning with foodstocks. The twin themes of food security and employment guarantee dominated the deliberations in the context of looming starvation deaths and rampant joblessness resulting from failure of monsoon. As anticipated, the seminar overwhelmingly voted for introduction of the Employment Guarantee Scheme (EGS) as it exists in Maharashtra, in all the States. The draft of a document listing the priorities on the social security sector titled "Jaipur Declaration'' was approved at the concluding session of the two day national seminar in the presence of the Rajasthan Chief Minister, Ashok Gehlot. The Declaration listed social security for the old, disabled and handicapped, food and nutritional security, access to productive employment, basic health care and basic meaningful education as the "undeniable rights'' to citizens. Mr.Gehlot who remained at the seminar venue on both the days, in his concluding remarks said that the debate on the social security would be carried forward in the coming days. He would be writing to the Prime Minister, the Union Ministers, the members of the Planning Commission and the Chief Ministers of States on the issues, he said. "I am convinced that good governance is not possible without providing social security to the citizens,'' Mr.Gehlot said. The gathering included experts like Vidya Rao, Ramgopal Agarwala, Mahendra Dev, Indira Hirve, Nirmala Murti, Manu Kulkarni, V.S.Vyas, noted Gandhian Subba Rao and the Magsaysay Award Winner, Aruna Roy. Acknowledging the right to food as a fundamental right, they sought food security and to ensure this, strengthening of the PDS and introduction of mid-day meal for children all over the country. Strengthening of the PDS was an important measure to give access to food. The system of mid-day meal for children should continue and be extended. In order to ensure availability of food grains to the people in the poorer areas, the States and the Central Government should keep certain stock of food grains at all village panchayats. Ms.Roy and another activist from Rajasthan's tribal area, Ginni Srivastava, talked about communal harmony as a pre-requisite for social security. With Gujarat like situation any kind of social security measure would not ensure well being, they pointed out. Ms.Roy also suggested drafting of a drought policy and imposition of drought cess on those who can pay. The Declaration said that the gathering was convinced that a large number of people who ought to benefit from the existing programmes related to social welfare continued to suffer. This was more with the people living in tribal and rural areas, women, physically challenged, spastics, aged and vulnerable groups. Effective legislation for stopping atrocities on women and weaker sections and for banning dowry system, untouchability, child marriages and similar social evils were needed. The Declaration also talked about the problem of under employment in agriculture, small industries, handicraft, trade and in the household. It mentioned those "unemployable'' who needs to be equipped with necessary skills. Basic health and meaningful education also were referred to as vital areas of social security. * * Printer friendly page Send this article to Friends by E-Mail Other States News: Front Page | National | Southern States | Other States| International | Opinion| Business | Sport| Science & Tech | Miscellaneous| Advts: Classifieds | Employment | Obituary| Stories in this Section - `Jaipur declaration' calls for food security Archives Yesterday's Issue Datewise Features: Life Magazine Literary Review Metro Plus Open Page Education Book Review Business SciTech Entertainment Young World Quest Folio ------------------------------ The Hindu Group: Home | About Us| Copyright | Archives| Contacts | Subscription Group Sites: The Hindu | Business Line| The Sportstar | Frontline| Home | Copyright © 2002, The Hindu. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of The Hindu ------------------------------ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 22:21:21 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 22:21:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 8 Message-ID: *Date:22/08/2004* *URL: http://www.thehindu.com/thehindu/mag/2004/08/22/stories/2004082200300200.htm * ------------------------------ Back Magazine * People as puppets * State denial of the basic rights of the poor is one that continues despite the form and composition of the government of the day, a denouement that activists who met at Bhopal recently in a convention on the Right to Food and Work feared. KATHYAYINI CHAMARAJ reports. AFP * Cruel fate ... working for days on end and still hungry. * THE bitter blow to the food and employment security of the masses inflicted by the previous National Democratic Alliance (NDA) government by destroying the Public Distribution System (PDS), making a mockery of the Below Poverty Line (BPL) surveys and callously disregarding the crisis in rural India, even as it carried on its fraudulent "India Shining" campaign, seem to be merely a very severe patch in the long history of state denial of the basic rights of the poor of this country. There was euphoria when the Congress party manifesto surprisingly promised to make the right to work a reality by passing an Employment Guarantee Act. Wags say that the Congress (I) probably included it because it never expected to win the election and did not think that it would ever be called upon to stand by its promise. But now the cat is out of the bag. The promise has turned out to be an empty one, as far as this year's budget goes. Activists who met at Bhopal recently in a convention on the Right to Food and Work had precisely feared such a denouement. They knew that their struggle would have to continue and that the end is not yet near. "The government's name and colour are changing, but their work is not changing," pointed out Harsh Mander. The state in our country seems to have become like a ghoulish monster which plays wicked tricks on the hungry masses for its perverted entertainment. It is like a giant puppeteer holding all the strings in its hands, at the ends of which hang sacks of grain. But the sacks of grain are hidden under different coloured cards at different times — now red, now green, now yellow — called BPL cards. The people can claim the cards which entitle them to the grain only after they answer a quiz correctly. `What more do you want?' As was revealed by Brinda Karat of the All India Democratic Women's Federation at the Bhopal convention, the state asks: "How many *rotis *did you eat today?" If you say that you had *rotis *twice on the same day, then, sorry, no, says the state, you don't qualify for the coloured cards. "How many sons do you have?" asks the state. If you say that you have two sons, sorry, no, then too you don't qualify to be BPL. It doesn't matter that your sons are currently two and six years old. "When your sons grow up and start earning, you will be well looked after. What more do you want?" says the state. Whatever the people answer, their answer is wrong and the coloured cards are swung out of their reach along with the sacks of grain by the master puppeteer. The people are left guessing the correct answers to the quiz and jumping over one another in their effort to reach the cards. The puppeteer has ever different games up his sleeve. He jumbles all the letters of the alphabet and creates various acronyms out of them, like NREP, RLEGS, SGRY, *ad infinitum*, and dangles them in the form of various employment and welfare schemes before the masses. He merges and splits the various acronyms periodically to baffle and confuse the masses. He tells them that if only they work for this many days under this or that jumble of letters, the grain will be theirs. The masses elbow each other and line up behind the various acronyms for work. They work for days and months, but the master puppeteer — like a child who shows off his piece of chocolate to other children before having it all by himself — again pulls the strings with the sacks of grain out of their reach. The functionaries of the State promise the grain to the hungry only to divert them fraudulently to waiting flour mills or smugglers. The hungry are left dreaming for food that appeared to be so near and yet so far. These games of deception go on until the people are completely exhausted reaching for the sacks which elude them. Then with a malevolent last cackle, the giant puppeteer pulls back all the strings with the sacks of grain in one fell swoop and throws them out of the country to waiting sheep, pigs and cattle in other countries. That the state seems to be doing this to spite its own people is obvious from the fact that the money it gets from the foreign countries for this exported grain is less than what it asks its own people to pay for it. The puppeteer, the state, is also running a macabre lottery scheme for deciding who among the widowed or destitute in a village deserve the crumbs it chooses to throw at them in the form of the National Social Assistance Scheme. There are only two or three prizes per village in this lottery scheme. Too bad if there are 15 destitutes and 20 widows in this village who deserve assistance. They will have to wait for one of the winners of the lottery to die so that they can try to win the lottery next. The poor looking for land on which they can grow their own grain to quell their hunger fare no better. The state sends them on a hunt much like the treasure hunt that is arranged for children at birthday parties: you have to search in nooks and crannies for the pieces of paper which will guide you to the treasure. The masses run through a maze of official corridors and a jigsaw puzzle of tables searching for that right piece of paper which will give them the right to cultivate a miserly patch of land. As Paul Diwaker of the National Federation for Dalit Human Rights pointed out, the people find at the end of the hunt that they are either clutching the wrong piece of paper or are cultivating the wrong patch of land. The land they are cultivating will be in the name of another or the paper they possess will be for land another person is cultivating. The Forest Department will contest their right to cultivate land given to them by the Revenue Department and vice-versa. Land that has been acquired under land ceiling laws, which should have been distributed, will lie undistributed, while land that is distributed will have several claimants. The state seems to be like the owner of a merry-go-round who benefits by sending people running around in endless circles. The poor either give up the treasure hunt midway or lose the hunt and come away crestfallen and landless. People, the owners As Madhuri of Jagruth Dalit Mahila Sanghatan pointed out: the people are the creators of the wealth in the country and they are the rightful owners. The government is only a watchman of the grain produced by them. It is not the owner. But the government thinks that it is doing a favour by throwing a few crumbs at the poor. When people ask for the right to work, the government says it has no money. "The money in the treasury is ours," says Madhuri, "but the government is taking our money and building bombs. The government is selling our forest, land and water. The watchman is selling the goods he is supposed to watch over, as if he is the owner. We don't want such a watchman." Snakes and ladders AFP * ... a redefinition of the poverty level. * YET another game the puppeteer enjoys playing is that of "snakes and ladders". Much as the masses try to reach their goal of a better life in this game, they find themselves being pulled down to greater depths of hunger and poverty by the "snakes" the state continually places in their path — of displacement, unemployment, high interest rates, an abysmally low level of minimum wages, reckless opening up of markets, ever-reducing produce prices and ever-increasing input prices. And yet, the state will claim that the poor have not been pulled down by the "snakes" but that they have indeed come out of poverty by climbing "ladders". The "ladders" are nothing but re-definitions of the poverty level by which masses are declared to have come above the poverty line by shifting the index downwards. Utsa Patnaik, Professor of Economics at the Centre for Economics Studies and Planning of Jawaharlal Nehru University, using a direct method of estimation of consumer expenditure, found that the poverty-level expenditure that can provide 2403 calories (the norm is 2,400) in 1999-2000 was Rs. 566.60 per month per capita in rural areas and that 70 per cent of all people were below this level. But the NDA government created the myth that the population below the poverty line has come down drastically, in fact, from about 27 per cent to 17 per cent in 1999-2000. Behind these figures was the assumption that the quantities people consumed remained unchanged since 30 years ago in 1973-74. Never mind that home-delivered pizzas, hamburgers, colas and ice-creams figure at least once a week in many urban homes; the rural family will be presumed to be above the poverty line even if it is subsisting on — or rather — starving on a particular calorific value generated from a diet consisting wholly of just watery gruel. Never mind that all the macro-economic trends, such as falling per capita foodgrains output and absorption, declining agricultural growth rates, sharply rising rural unemployment were completely inconsistent with any story of declining rural poverty. These did not deter the state in any way from declaring that the poor had gone up "ladders" and not down "snakes". * * © Copyright 2000 - 2009 The Hindu From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 22:21:54 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 22:21:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 8 Message-ID: ------------------------------ [image: Frontline] *Volume 23 - Issue 12 :: Jun. 17-30, 2006* INDIA'S NATIONAL MAGAZINE from the publishers of THE HINDU *•* Contents ------------------------------ [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] *COVER STORY* * Food at stake * BRINDA KARAT * The new proposals of the Department of Food and Public Distribution constitute an assault on the right to food. * V.V. KRISHNAN * A TRIBAL COUPLE in Bolangir, an Orissa district with a high percentage of people below the poverty line. * PEOPLE may find it strange that the Union Finance Minister could ask for votes in his home State of Tamil Nadu on the promise of providing rice at Rs.2 a kilo for the entire population, but should practise the opposite when formulating policies in New Delhi. Increasing food subsidies, stepping up allocations to the Public Distribution System (PDS), and raising the number of beneficiaries under the Antyodaya scheme are just some of the measures that should have been provided for in the Union Budget. But they were not. Now the Department of Food and Public Distribution, under the leadership of Sharad Pawar, has taken this line of thinking forward with a set of atrocious proposals. These include reduction in wheat allocations to the States; allocation of coarse grains instead of wheat; removal of foodgrains from the Sampoorna Grameena Rozgar Yojna (SGRY) scheme as part of wage payments; decrease in allocations for drought-hit areas; increase in the prices of foodgrains for both Above Poverty Line (APL) and Below Poverty Line (BPL) cardholders in the PDS; reduction in quotas for both APL and BPL by 5 kg from the present 35 kg; and prevention of sale of wheat in the open market by State agencies, which is usually done to control prices. Taken together, these proposals constitute a frontal assault on the right to food. The denial of the right to food for a large section of the Indian population reflected in increased malnourishment, stunted growth, ill-health and loss of energy and therefore productivity is an issue that deserves more national attention. If countries were to be graded in terms of provision of food security to their citizens, India would rank along with Ethiopia at the lower end. The United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) report that one out of every two children in India is malnourished confirms the lopsided priorities of successive governments at the Centre that seek to narrow fiscal deficits by reducing food subsidies. The previous National Democratic Alliance (NDA) regime was symbolised by six crore tonnes of foodgrains rotting in Food Corporation of India (FCI) godowns while people went hungry. The United Progressive Alliance (UPA) government's record over the last year has been one of gross food mismanagement symbolised by plummeting wheat stocks, spiralling prices and, finally, wheat imports. A slew of policies, followed by first the NDA and now the UPA, have resulted in the present state of food insecurity at a time of acute rural distress. These policies include (1) the nature of public distribution; (2) the gradual decline in the role of the government and state agencies with regard to procurement; (3) the lack of commitment to food self-sufficiency expressed in policies that encourage a switch-over to export-oriented cash crop production from foodgrains; (4) encouragement to forward trading in foodgrains and pro-trader changes in the Agricultural Produce Marketing Act. Targeted PDS Until 1996, India had a universal PDS. The United Front government introduced the targeted system with the mistaken notion that the infirmities of the PDS would be curbed and that it would enable subsidised grains to reach those who actually needed it. Targeting entails an identification of the poor. Where these numbers are small, targeting may be a simple task. Where these numbers are large, and in countries such as India where the majority of the people are in the unorganised sector with fluctuating incomes, targeting could become an instrument to exclude sections of the poor from the right to food. Targeting is also a method linked to neoliberal policies that seek to limit if not eliminate the role of the government and state from its welfare responsibilities, which include the provision of accessible food to its people. ASHOKE CHAKRABARTY * BPL CARDHOLDERS OUTSIDE a ration shop in western Orissa. A Planning Commission evaluation of the Public Distribution System last year found that 57 per cent of the poor had been actually excluded from the BPL system. * India now has 10 years of experience of the targeted (into APL and BPL households with access to foodgrains at different prices) and further targeted (into BPL and Antyodaya households) system. Last year, the Planning Commission did an evaluation of the PDS and found that 57 per cent of the poor had been actually excluded from the BPL system. Earlier, the Abhijit Sen Committee had also come up with similar findings, pointing to the utter failure of the targeted system, and suggested a return to the universal PDS. An associated problem with targeting is that of identification of the poor. If only those who are officially identified as "poor" can have access to food, then clearly the method has to be one that ensures accuracy. The prevailing method of identification is entirely unsatisfactory. There are two sets of estimates. The estimate that is linked to allocations of foodgrains is made by the Planning Commission. According to a reply given in Parliament, the present concept of poverty line is based on the per capita consumption expenditure needed to attain a minimum amount of calorie intake out of food consumption along with a minimum amount of non-food expenditure in order to meet the requirements of clothing, shelter and transport, among other things. This is based on the methodology suggested by the Lakdawala Committee in 1993 and the population projections of the Registrar-General of India as on March 1, 2000. Shockingly, according to the current assessments, it works out to around Rs.11 an adult a day. Clearly, this is not poverty line but destitution line. Earlier foodgrain allocations were not linked to poverty line assessments but were open-ended depending on past utilisation by the States. The linkages came along with the targeted system. This creates another anomaly. The Rural Development Ministry has a set of programmes for BPL families. The States have to conduct a BPL survey on the basis of the criteria decided by this Ministry. These are different from those of the Planning Commission. Thus the State BPL census on the basis of one set of calculations may be entirely at variance with those of the Planning Commission. The number of BPL cards issued by the States is reportedly over and above the Planning Commission "quotas" by as much as two crores. However, the food allocation is made not on the poverty estimates of the States but by those arbitrarily decided by the Planning Commission. V.V. KRISHNAN * IN DHAMTARI DISTRICT of Chhattisgarh, old stocks of paddy being repacked for distribution under public distribution schemes. A file picture. * According to current estimates, six crore households in India come under the BPL category. That such a large number of people are earning less than Rs.330 a month is shocking enough. But what is cruel is that anyone earning above this meagre monthly income is classified as APL and excluded from the right to subsidised foodgrains. The very words "Above Poverty Line" is misleading because they include a vast section of the poor who have been denied their entitlements through statistical fraud and jugglery to serve a neoliberal agenda. The need for subsidised foodgrains for a wider section of people is also reflected in increased offtake. While the offtake in the Antyodaya system is around 90 per cent showing the desperate need of people for cheap foodgrains, the offtake for BPL has doubled in the past few years, from 73.67 lakh tonnes to 228.45 lakh tonnes in 2005-06 out of an allocation of 273. 20 lakh tonnes which constitutes 83 per cent of the allocation. As far as APL is concerned, the offtake is much lower not because people do not need the grain but because for several years there was not much difference in the APL price and the market price. The central issue price for wheat is Rs.7.50 a kg. For rice the price range is from Rs.10 in Gujarat and Maharashtra for 1 kg to Rs.9 in Andhra Pradesh and West Bengal. As current market prices of foodgrains have shot up, the demand for APL foodgrains will definitely increase but the poor offtake of the grain in the past few years is being cited by the government to cut allocations, precisely when people require it more. To illustrate, according to a memorandum by the Fair Price Dealers Association in West Bengal, whereas in 2004-05 the wheat allotment for both APL and BPL was 2.22 lakh tonnes it has been slashed to 1.51 lakh tonnes in the current year. Godowns of the FCI in five major centres do not have wheat stocks at all. In April 2006, whereas the dispatch instructions were for 59 rakes, only 15 rakes actually arrived. Similarly, in the SGRY the earlier component of 5 kg of wheat as part payment of a daily wage has already been cut to 3 kg. States have complained that wheat allotments have virtually stopped for this programme. Since rice procurement is reportedly up by around 28 lakh tonnes, it is possible for the Central government to replace wheat allocations with rice at least for the time being in consultation with the States. Instead of taking such a step, the Centre is proposing a cut in allocations. POVERTY ASSESSMENT The demand for revision of methodologies for poverty assessment has been raised by several eminent economists and also in Parliament. This is an issue that requires the most urgent attention. In any case, linking food allocations with centrally pre-decided quotas regardless of the reality on the ground is a method to reduce the share of the poor in national resources. This should be stopped and States allowed to draw food allocations according to their needs. Secondly, the neglect of foodgrain production consequent to the new agricultural policy's emphasis on export-oriented cash crops is a major reason for current shortfalls in wheat production. With stagnating wheat production, the danger level in weakening food self-sufficiency has already been crossed with the rate of growth of food production falling below the rate of growth of population. Last year, the production of wheat reached a low of around 68.5 million tonnes while this year it is estimated at around 71 mt. Soil exhaustion in India's wheat-producing States of Punjab, Haryana and western Uttar Pradesh may require diversification but it will be disastrous if the government continues to encourage diversification without a policy of bringing alternative land under wheat production. Procurement Policy The third issue is that of procurement of wheat. Wheat deficits to the extent of 20 lakh tonnes below the buffer stock norms leading to imports for the first time in decades are a result of the deliberate policy of the government to cut down procurement on the one hand and encouraging private trade on the other. In 2001-02, with wheat production at 69.8 mt, procurement by state agencies was 20.6 lakh tonnes. This year, with wheat production estimated at 71.5 mt, procurement has plummeted to just 9.18 mt. The Minister's explanation is that since farmers benefited from higher prices this was not a matter for concern. In fact state agencies were disabled by pro-trader changes made in the Agricultural Produce Act. They could now go straight to the farmer in the remotest village, while the FCI can only buy from registered markets; the private traders no longer need a licence or a recognised agent to buy foodgrains, thus escaping from market fees which the FCI has to pay adding to its costs; while private traders can go into the market according to their own assessments, the FCI is hamstrung by bureaucratic procedures. Thus big companies such as Cargill, Reliance, ITC and even the Australian Wheat Board, which has turned out to be the company supplying the imported wheat, went into villages in Punjab and Haryana much before state agencies and offered small farmers a price slightly higher then the official minimum support price (MSP) of Rs.650. Only when a large part of the produce had been cornered by private trade that the government offered a bonus of Rs.50. Big farmers who could hold on to their stocks would have benefited from the higher prices offered later, but the bulk of the peasantry sold their produce to traders at prices below the Rs.700 offered three weeks too late by the government. If the FCI had been given the same leeway as private trade, then the present dismal record of low procurement could have been avoided. Shockingly, the government offered the Indian farmer almost Rs.100 less than what it paid foreign traders for wheat it has imported at Rs.789.20 a quintal. The cornering of the stock by private trade has permitted wheat hoarding, which has pushed market prices up by Rs.5-6 a kg. Thus private trade made a killing both ways, by buying the bulk of wheat at prices only slightly higher than the MSP and by manipulating market prices to two-thirds more than what they spent on buying the grain from farmers. A dangerous argument advanced by the Minister is that the import of wheat directly to the southern ports actually saved the exchequer Rs.399 crores. According to him, the cost of distribution of wheat procured in Punjab or Haryana to the last centre in southern India works out to Rs.1,120 a quintal compared to Rs.997 it costs for the transport of imported wheat. Decades of building a food security system can be wiped out by such neoliberal ideologies that undermine the principle of self-reliance. Besides, it reflects a naive belief that international prices will remain static whereas clearly international traders are waiting to maximise profits through wheat imports at higher prices to India. Further, a dangerous concession in the way of lowering of phytosanitary standards in the quality of wheat is also being planned. This must be opposed strongly. India can spend thousands of crores to protect itself through nuclear might but can render itself completely vulnerable by losing its greatest achievement, the backbone of sovereignty - food self-sufficiency. With this approach, the situation on the rice front could follow a similar disastrous pattern in the future. It also raises the question of whether it is appropriate to combine the Agriculture Ministry with the Food and Public Distribution Ministry, which has been done for the first time in the UPA Cabinet with Sharad Pawar holding both portfolios. Fourthly, the FCI is being weakened systematically. Huge amounts, running to thousands of crores of rupees, are owed to the FCI on account of foodgrains supplied by it to different government programmes such as the SGRY and the food-for-work programme. But these amounts do not appear either in the Budget or in the accounts of the Rural Development Ministry. In answer to a pointed question in Parliament, the Finance Minister replied that there was no need to show it in the Budget as "there is a separate accounting system with the FCI". Precisely because the FCI's role in procurement and distribution of foodgrains is being curbed, the ability of the government to intervene in the market to control prices is also reduced. In a country where there is an uneven pattern of foodgrain production with a large number of States facing food deficit, weakening the FCI means weakening food security. Other programmes The employment schemes of the government with part of the payment in foodgrains have been an important part of the provision of food security, though inadequate. The move to cut back on this component is also to cut down on the real wages of the worker. With the current high prices of wheat and other essential commodities, what the worker gains in cash is less than what he/she has to pay for his/her foodgrain needs in the market. Linked to the issue of weakened distribution and the cutting down of allocations is the fate of the 4.83 lakh fair price shops. To use the illustration made by Madhura Swaminathan, there is evidence from Kerala, the State with the most effective system of rationing, of ration shops becoming unviable. In the early 1990s, the average monthly sale of cereals was 7,500 kg of rice and 2,000 kg of wheat per ration shop. By 2001, these figures had fallen to 1,400 kg of rice and 200 kg of wheat. Many fair price shops are now estimated to be making losses. According to an official estimate by the Government of Kerala, the gross earnings per fair price shop fell from Rs.3,711 before March 2000 to Rs.1,493 in August 2001. The situation has worsened since then. What needs to be done is to improve the systems - whether of the procurement agencies, the fair price shops or the methods of distribution - but not to destroy them. But that is what the Food and Public Distribution Department seems to be proposing. People-centred reform requires a return to the universal PDS. The Cabinet must reject the proposals of the Ministry led by Sharad Pawar, that are contrary to the commitment of the Common Minimum Programme. *Brinda Karat is a Polit Bureau member of the CPI(M).* * * ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Printer friendly page Send this article to Friends by E-Mail ------------------------------ Subscribe | Contact Us | Archives| Contents (Letters to the Editor should carry the full postal address) ------------------------------ Home | The Hindu | Business Line | Sportstar | Publications | eBooks| Images ------------------------------ Copyright © 2006, Frontline. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of Frontline ------------------------------ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 22:22:09 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 22:22:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 8 Message-ID: Online edition of India's National Newspaper Friday, Dec 19, 2003 Group Publications Business Line The Sportstar Frontline The Hindu About Us Contact Us *Opinion* News: Front Page | National | Southern States | Other States| International | Opinion| Business | Sport| Miscellaneous | Advts: Classifieds | Employment | Obituary| Opinion - Leader Page Articles [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] * Supreme Court and the common man * By K.K. Venugopal * The Supreme Court breathed life into Article 21 of the Constitution by expanding the meaning of the words "right to life" as not mere animal existence, but as life with dignity. * DOES A day go past without our reading in the newspapers about the role that the Supreme Court plays in every aspect of the life of the country? Many lawyers, and perhaps judges, would admit an objective analysis would show most often that the Supreme Court would be encroaching upon the areas reserved by the Constitution for the legislative and executive wings of the state. But what is to be noted is that intervention in these areas by the Supreme Court has been compelled by the inaction, apathy and the indifference of the Executive and the Legislature. Though today the Executive and the Legislature do not protest against such encroachment, that was not the case in the first three decades of the working of the Constitution of India. The first three decades were a time of conflict between the Executive and the Legislature on the one hand, and the Judiciary on the other, a series of confrontations arising by reason of the Supreme Court's interpretation of various pieces of legislation, including some relating to land reforms. The last straw on the camel's back, as it were, was the Supreme Court judgment in the Kesavananda Bharati case, arising from Kerala, where it denied to Parliament the power to amend the Constitution if such amendments were to affect the basic structure or the foundation on which the Constitution rested. Matters came to a head during the Emergency when the then Union Law Minister, H.R. Gokhale, in a speech reminiscent of F.D. Roosevelt's radio broadcast to the nation after his New Deal Legislation had been struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court, said: "An atmosphere of confrontation was sought to be created by those whose duty it was to see that they did not encroach upon the field which did not legitimately belong to them. Nothing should be left undone now to ensure that such a situation did not recur. If even after the amendment (that is, the 42nd amendment to the Constitution) confrontation continues, then I think it will be a bad day for the Judiciary." And again: "We are trying to save them from the temptation to intrude into powers which do not belong to them. What we are doing today is not to save the people from the judges but really enabling the judges to save them from themselves." The Emergency declared in 1975, and its aftermath, brought about a sea change in the attitude of the Congress Government to the Judiciary, and the Supreme Court in particular. It is only due to the lessons learnt from the Emergency that a restrained and subdued Government that came back to power in February 1980, decided that it was no more prudent and wise to continue such confrontation with the Judiciary. The post-1980 Court embarked upon a path of judicial activism unparalleled in the history of any modern democracy. Activists, lawyers and public interest groups invoked its jurisdiction, which was exercised, untrammelled by the limitations that applied to the High Courts. The Supreme Court identified Article 142 of the Constitution and its inherent power as an unlimited source of power, a veritable Kamadhenu, on which it could draw for whatever the judges felt were the demands of justice. The Court compelled obedience to its will through its power of contempt drawn from its inherent power as a court of record, which it held was not subject to the limitations and restrictions in the law passed by Parliament, namely, the Contempt of Courts Act, 1971. In seeking to aid the poor, the illiterate and the disadvantaged sections of society, it did away with the existing cumbersome procedures, as long as public interest was subserved. With its newly developed craftsmanship it was able to achieve goals that the Government was unable to or unwilling to achieve. The Supreme Court succeeded in the space of a year where the Government had failed in the span of a decade. As a result of its activism, in the realm of the right to life and liberty, it embarked upon ensuring the rights of prisoners and rescuing them from the barbaric prison rules, which prevailed during the British colonial rule. The names of Hussainara Khatoon, Sunil Batra, Sheila Barse and many others, would all bring tears to the eyes of people who believed that it was part of their fate, ordained by the gods, to suffer at the hands of the Government and its public servants. A whole new catena of rights was also read into Article 21, which embodies the right to life and liberty. These, in various decisions, have been held to include the right to legal aid, right to go abroad, right to reputation, right to shelter, right to privacy, right against sexual harassment of women, right to education and the right to a clean and healthy environment. The Supreme Court, without being concerned any more about the political wing of the state seeking to fetter its powers, and without fearing any more confrontation with the Executive and the Legislature, expanded its area of adjudication to cover every conceivable aspect of human enterprise in the country. It dealt with pollution in the Ganga, guidelines for adoption of Indian children by foreigners, forced prostitution of girls and Devadasis and Jogins, the extreme poverty and starvation in Kalahandi, the elimination of injurious drugs and maintenance of approved standards in drugs, management of mental hospitals, employment of children in match factories, police `encounters' causing loss of life, x-ray hazards to public sector employees and numerous other areas of concern to the country. No wonder a former Chief Justice of India once described the Supreme Court as the most powerful court in existence in any democracy in the world. If you ask me whether many of the orders issued by the Supreme Court were within its jurisdiction or competence, I would hesitate to answer in the affirmative, but "we the people" will not question the legitimacy of the Supreme Court and its orders because it has used all the powers at its command to ensure that the fundamental rights are enforced and the mandate of the Constitution is implemented. The writ of the Supreme Court runs through every aspect of life and human endeavour. In Hussainara Khatoon's case, it found to its horror that thousands of under-trials were incarcerated for a far longer period than the maximum sentence which could have been imposed on them if they had been found guilty of the offence with which they were charged. This happened because of the huge backlog in the courts, as a result of which cases were taking five to eight years for disposal in the trial courts. By a single stroke of pen, the Supreme Court directed the release of these thousands of prisoners. Article 21 of the Constitution declares that no person shall be deprived of his life or personal liberty except according to the procedure established by law. The Supreme Court breathed life into these words by expanding the meaning of the words "right to life" as not mere animal existence, but as life with human dignity, with all faculties intact, a roof over one's head and the basic right to food and employment. Having held so, it started expanding this concept so as to include the right to privacy, right to go abroad, right to legal aid, right to medical assistance, right to shelter, right to speedy trial, right to pollution-free water and air, right to a reasonable residence, right to food, clothing and a decent environment and even protection of the cultural heritage of the people. In Unnikrishnan's case, the Supreme Court held that the right to free education till the age of 14 is a fundamental right. Recently, in the Islamic Academy of Education's case, the Court declared that admission to professional colleges — medical, engineering and others has to be on merit and the fees charged have to be reasonable even if run by private institutions. In Vishaka's case, the Court issued guidelines and directed the establishment of mechanisms to address sexual harassment of women at work place. A resurgent Supreme Court today entertains public interest litigation from every nook and corner of the country, including complaints of deprivation of human rights and basic requirements. The potent weapon of PIL has to be used with circumspection and craftsmanship. Today, we can rest content with the conviction that in the hour of need every person, irrespective of his status, wealth or education, can approach the courts, and in particular, the Supreme Court when his rights are violated, and that the Supreme Court would be ever happy and willing to extend its arms to ensure that the Constitution and the rights enshrined therein are implemented in the most vigorous manner. *(Excerpted from the Justice Subramonian Potti Memorial Lecture delivered recently by the writer in New Delhi.) * * * * * Printer friendly page Send this article to Friends by E-Mail Opinion News: Front Page | National | Southern States | Other States| International | Opinion| Business | Sport| Miscellaneous | Advts: Classifieds | Employment | Obituary| *News Update* Stories in this Section - Europe and integration - The challenge of spam - Supreme Court and the common man - AIDS and insurance - Laudable move - Acting against ULFA - PM's speech - Poll outcome - Utopian SAARC - Anonymous letters - Saddam's capture - Postal services - System to blame - On Rajaji Archives Yesterday's Issue Datewise Features: Life Magazine Literary Review Metro Plus Open Page Education Plus Book Review Business SciTech Entertainment Young World Quest Folio ------------------------------ The Hindu Group: Home | About Us| Copyright | Archives| Contacts | Subscription Group Sites: The Hindu | Business Line| The Sportstar | Frontline| The Hindu eBooks | Home| Copyright © 2003, The Hindu. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of The Hindu ------------------------------ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 22:22:55 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 22:22:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 8 Message-ID: ------------------------------ [image: Frontline] *Volume 19 - Issue 24, November 23 - December 06 2002* India's National Magazine from the publishers of THE HINDU Home *•* Contents ------------------------------ [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] *THE STATES* * Hunger deaths in Baran * NEELABH MISHRA * The fourth straight year of drought in Rajasthan has taken its toll, particularly on the Sahariya community of hunter-gatherers. The sama seeds they survive on have turned out to be a slow killer. * SHANKAR * Starving children of a family at Amrod village in Kishanganj block of Baran district. * THE greenery and water in Kishanganj and Shahabad blocks of Baran district in southeast Rajasthan are deceptive - an ironical shroud on drought and death. Drought lurks beneath this shroud in bare patches, which are either dried up fields or deforested land, and death is the only topic of conversation for the residents in many of the villages in these blocks. The government acknowledges severe drought and scarcity in all 32 districts of Rajasthan. It also acknowledges unnatural deaths in Baran - in all the 47 cases reported by the media and civil society organisations. Yet, the government fails to see the fatal connection between drought and death. Murari of Gangapur Sehrana hamlet in Mundiar village of Shahabad block has survived the deaths of his father, wife, 20-day-old child and mother since September 28. "I have survived on *sama*," he says, showing the seeds that a kind of wild grass yields, and which the people eat in *majboori *or distress, as the village sarpanch testifies. Cut to a report by the Tribal Commissioner of the Government of Rajasthan after an outcry in the media and civil society over more than 40 deaths, such as those in Murari's family, reported from Baran district. Quoting from a study on food habits, it says *sama* is a proper food with a high protein content. "And it is delicious with milk, like a kind of *kheer*," a government official says. But the poor tribal people of Baran rarely get milk during droughts. For a further rejoinder, hear Moti, a social activist with Sankalp, an organisation that works among tribal people: "Yes, during a normal rain-fed year, *sama* is a proper food with enough protein content. But in the absence of rain, *sama *seeds dry up, turn poisonous and become a slow killer of people weakened by a lack of nutrition from any other source." Here is probably an explanation why Murari's near and dear ones died. Probably one of the ways by which famine kills. Congress legislator Hiralal Sahariya, a native of the area, said *sama*could not be digested without *chhachh* (buttermilk), which the Sahariyas could not afford. It was not only Murari in Gangapur Sehrana but his entire hamlet of around 50 houses that had eaten nothing but *sama **roti*s in the past couple of months. A team of activists of the People's Union for Civil Liberties (PUCL) and journalists, which visited the area in October, found in these homes no grain and only a *katta *(50-kg sack) of *sama *seeds. The villagers were worried that their supply of seeds would soon dry up and they would have nothing left to eat. `Sehrana' in Gangapur Sehrana denotes that it is a hamlet of Sahariyas, one of the nine primitive tribal communities of the country, which are still mostly in the hunting-gathering stage. The Sahariyas form the single largest community in Baran district, constituting 21 per cent of the population. In Shahabad and Kishanganj blocks, they form 34 per cent of the population. And when it comes to the list of those who died unnaturally in the past couple of months, it is they who dominate. The PUCL, petitioner in a Supreme Court case on the issue of the right to food, with the help of Bharat Gyan Vigyan Samiti (BGVS) and Sankalp (NGOs working at the grassroots in Baran), prepared a list of 44 unnatural deaths from 11 villages in Kishanganj and Shahabad districts and submitted it to the State government on October 24. All but six of the victims were Sahariyas. The six non-Sahariya dead belonged to Dalit communities. To understand such a high incidence of unnatural deaths among Sahariyas during this drought, one has only to look at how they live. Not too long ago, the hunting-gathering Sahariyas survived on minor forest produce and a kind of shifting agriculture. When forests started dwindling fast around the time India gained independence and in subsequent years, the Sahariyas started tilling lands of other people - mostly Jats, Gujjars and Sikh farmers of the area. Untuned to the exploitative cruelties of the non-forest world, they were easily made to lapse into a life of bonded labour. Though freed after the passage of the Bonded Labour Act nearly a quarter century ago, they continue to eke out a difficult and stark living, working on other people's land, in the forests and doing public works. Agriculture labour and minor forest produce provide most of their sustenance. The drought put paid to this sustenance. Though it is the fourth year of severe drought in Rajasthan, it is the first year that Sahariyas have been hit hard by it. A nearly 30 per cent shortfall in rain this year made life even more miserable for Sahariyas than it already was. Although the shortfall in rain in 18 districts in Rajasthan was double or even more than that (-60 per cent or less) of Baran, Sahariyas suffered more than the people in those districts. The reason is simple. Not used to droughts and the complexities of a non agri-forest economy, Sahariyas do not know how to store or to migrate to cities and distant regions or to cope in other ways. So, with a crop failure this year, there was no grain wage to be had from working other people's fields and therefore no grain to eat. Hence the sole reliance on *sama*, always a supplementary diet, but one which perishes and becomes poisonous quickly. And what next when the *sama* stocks dry up? "We boil the leaves of *phang*, a wild green plant, and eat," say Navali and Binja, Sahariya women from Mamooni of Khanda Sehrol panchayat in Shahabad block. They, at times, also fall back on *pumal*, another plant. But this time even *pumal *is not there in many areas. In some places people were even forced to eat dead sheep, and in a few instances they fell ill after eating putrefied meat. What are the other means of survival for Sahariyas? They are as harsh and trying. The able-bodied Sahariyas of Lal Kankri village in Shahabad block and Swaans village (where 11 children have died in two months) and Hatiyadeh village, both in Kishanganj block, go to the forests to dig roots of a herb called *shalavari*. These roots are brought home, peeled, dried and sold at the rate of Rs.5 to Rs.6 a kg every two or three days. People in these villages and also Amrod in Shahabad block boil and dry `Amla' and barter it for small amounts of wheat. In this backdrop the PUCL fact-finding team of Kavita Srivastava, Reetika Khera and Rajesh Sinha did a quick checklist of government relief works in the area in mid-October and found: * There were little government relief works on the ground. The State government data itself speak of only 500 labourers employed on the drought relief works in the whole district in September. * The gratuitous relief scheme for the disbursal of free grain to people who are not able-bodied was hardly implemented on the ground. * The people in the above-mentioned villages received supplies against their ration cards only twice this year - in March and October. The fate of the Antyodaya Yojna - distribution of grain to the poorest of the poor at the rate of Rs.2 a kg - was also the same, as the public distribution system (PDS) shops were rarely opened. * A viable public health system was non-existent on the ground, with the auxiliary nurse and midwife always absent from the scene, health sub-centres and referral hospitals without medicines, and referral hospitals without ambulances. * The anganwadis were usually located in the main village, far away from the Sahariya hamlets, and rarely opened. Children below the age of six rarely got supplementary nutrition from the anganwadi centres. ALL this was in violation of the Supreme Court's orders in the PUCL's right to food case. The only silver lining was the regular distribution of mid-day meals in village schools, but Sahariya children did not always benefit from this because their enrolment average is less than that of children from other communities. With the unnatural deaths in the Sahariya area becoming an issue of grave concern in the media, civil society, and the apex court in the ongoing right to food case, the State government went public with the stand that these were related not to hunger but to illness. This response came in for public ridicule, with the rejoinder by the PUCL, the BGVS and Sankalp contextualising the causes of the various deaths as malnourishment, hunger-related illnesses, and the consumption of poisonous food in distress. All these categorisations are related ultimately to the undeniable fact of hunger. In the face of this, the Chief Minister himself contended that the deaths were owing to malnutrition and not starvation. This, too, skirted the fact of widespread hunger in Baran district, particularly among Sahariyas, and the inadequacy of the government response. In a bizarre sideshow, the drought-related deaths in Baran also led to political duels between the State and the Centre and the Congress and the BJP. The State government contended that the BJP-ruled Centre was discriminating against Opposition-ruled Rajasthan by giving it only two lakh tonnes of grain against the requirement of 56 lakh tonnes for drought relief, in sharp contrast to the 16 lakh tonnes of grain it had dispatched to Andhra Pradesh, ruled by National Democratic Alliance ally Telugu Desam. The Centre responded by saying that the Rajasthan government had not lifted the full grain quota allotted to it. There was a sleight of hand involved in this though; the Centre had included in this the grain under the above-poverty-line quota, which is not lifted as it is priced above the market rate. The State answered back, pointing out that the Rajasthan government's performance was best in the utilisation of the Antyodaya and below-poverty-line quota grains, the statistics showing 94 and 73 per cent respectively in these categories. The BJP, on the other hand, pointed out the lapses by the State government's service delivery machinery in Baran even though it came under critical public scrutiny as its State chief, Vasundhara Raje, is the Member of Parliament representing the affected blocks of Kishanganj and Shahabad, and she too was caught napping when the drought-related deaths came to light. The sideshow continued right up to the meeting of the Congress Chief Ministers in Mount Abu on November 8 and 9. As far as people of the State are concerned, they were shocked by the inhuman intensity of hunger in Baran and the smug apathy and blame game of the Central government and the State administration. In fact, the role of international donor agencies such as the World Bank and UNICEF, which have a strong presence in Baran district through their respective programmes, also came under critical public scrutiny. This shock also galvanised civil society into action, both agitational and relief-oriented, and also forced the State administration to pass a series of extraordinary orders for drought relief, including a drastic increase in labour employment in public works and gratuitous relief and declaring the worst-affected blocks as vulnerable. It remains to be seen how this translates into effective implementation on the ground. *Neelabh Mishra is a freelance journalist based in Jaipur.* * * Printer friendly page Send this article to Friends by E-Mail ------------------------------ Subscribe | Contact Us | Archives| Contents (Letters to the Editor should carry the full postal address) ------------------------------ [ Home | The Hindu | Business Line | Sportstar ------------------------------ Copyright © 2002, Frontline. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of Frontline ------------------------------ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 22:24:29 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 22:24:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 8 Message-ID: Online edition of India's National Newspaper Wednesday, Nov 17, 2004 Group Publications Business Line The Sportstar Frontline The Hindu About Us Contact Us *Opinion* News: Front Page | National | Tamil Nadu| Andhra Pradesh | Karnataka| Kerala | New Delhi| Other States | International| Opinion | Business| Sport | Miscellaneous| Advts: Classifieds | Employment | Opinion - Leader Page Articles [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] * Food for work: promise and challenges * By Narayan Lakshman * The danger of elite capture of the administering institutions implies the need for monitoring and a nuanced understanding of local conditions. * THE LAUNCH of the National Food-for-Work Programme (NFFWP) this week in Andhra Pradesh is a bold symbol of the pro-poor policy orientation of the United Progressive Alliance Government. The initiative marks a clear divergence from the `India Shining' sloganeering of the former National Democratic Alliance Government, and there is much promise in this orientation of governance for marginalised classes, predominantly in rural areas. However, the potentially serious pitfalls of elite capture of the administering institutions implies the need for frequent monitoring and review of performance, as well as a nuanced understanding of local political conditions in the 150 districts where the implementation of the scheme has been planned. The NFFWP is premised on a Keynesian understanding of employment that emphasises the role of the state in proactively generating employment opportunities. The policy design is simple yet remarkably efficient in adopting a multi-pronged strategy to tackle the essentially multi-dimensional problem of poverty. On the one hand, it provides employment to otherwise seasonally unemployed wage labourers who often migrate from district to district, and sometimes across state borders, to obtain a subsistence wage. On the other, the policy facilitates rural infrastructural development in the form of repair and construction of village-level irrigation works, road connectivity and basic socio-economic infrastructure. Essentially the hope is that income levels in the rural economy will gradually rise, both as a consequence of the wage goods provided as `payment' for work undertaken, as well as through externalities derived from boosting the quality and quantity of rural infrastructure. Broader developmental goals, including food security and employment guarantee are also likely to receive a shot in the arm from this programme. This partly brings to fruition the efforts of the Right to Food Campaign spearheaded by Jean Dreze and others, and a number of other organisations that have actively campaigned to get the Employment Guarantee Act tabled in and passed by Parliament in December this year, pressing towards establishing the constitutional right to work. These organisations include the National Alliance for the Fundamental Right to Education, All India Agricultural Workers Alliance, All India Agricultural Workers Union, All India Democratic Women's Association, Bharat Gyan Vigyan Samiti, National Alliance of People's Movements, National Federation of Indian Women, New Trade Union Initiative, among others. There is little doubt that the adoption and passing of this pro-poor, redistributive scheme is a notable achievement in itself and clearly marks a divergence from the principal dependence on `trickle-down' growth manifested in the NDA regime's governance. However, the empirical record of redistribution failures in India occurring in the second, implementation phase should serve as a note of caution to those who are inclined to believe that agenda setting is the main stumbling block for policymakers. The dismal implementation record of land redistribution, rural credit policies such as the Integrated Rural Development Programme (IRDP), and a host of other foundering initiatives, points to the need for frequent monitoring and review of the performance of the administering institutions. This includes the bureaucracy, as well as partner institutions such as non-governmental organisations. The fact that the NFFWP is funded primarily by the Central Government itself implies that the resources coming from New Delhi will encounter State-level patronage networks that may seek to alter resource allocation, in this case food distribution patterns, in favour of dominant elites at the sub-district levels. Targeting issues are also potentially under threat from this sort of political capture, as many critics have pointed out about the IRDP that ultimately pandered to the not-so-poor in credit terms. It might be argued that in a country with such a decentralised political structure as India, this sort of elite capture is inevitable to some extent, but it can certainly be minimised through the creation of multi-institutional monitoring bodies, comprising, for example, independent watchdogs, political leaders of the ruling and opposition parties, civil servants and NGO members. However, above and beyond this basic issue is the need for policymakers in New Delhi and in the respective States to incorporate an understanding of local political conditions into their plans for policy implementation. Caste discrimination, neo-feudal interdependencies between poorer tenants and their rich landlords, and even criminal elements that dominate specific parts of the rural economy are factors that need to be carefully examined before committing resources to any district, even the poorest ones. Otherwise, there is a looming threat of misappropriation and wastage of scarce food resources in an already predominantly food-insecure context. * * Printer friendly page Send this article to Friends by E-Mail Opinion News: Front Page | National | Tamil Nadu| Andhra Pradesh | Karnataka| Kerala | New Delhi| Other States | International| Opinion | Business| Sport | Miscellaneous| Advts: Classifieds | Employment | Updates: Breaking News | *News Update* Stories in this Section - RESPECT THE BOUNDARY - THE CHUCKING CONTROVERSY - From confrontation to cooperation - Food for work: promise and challenges - Law is supreme - Renounce the title - Don't pre-judge Archives Yesterday's Issue Datewise Features: Life Magazine Literary Review Metro Plus Open Page Education Plus Book Review Business SciTech Entertainment Young World Property Plus Quest Folio ------------------------------ The Hindu Group: Home | About Us| Copyright | Archives| Contacts | Subscription Group Sites: The Hindu | Business Line| The Sportstar | Frontline| The Hindu eBooks | Home| Copyright © 2004, The Hindu. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of The Hindu ------------------------------ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 22:24:43 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 22:24:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 8 Message-ID: Online edition of India's National Newspaper Sunday, Oct 28, 2001 Business Line The Sportstar Frontline The Hindu About Us Contact Us *Magazine* Published on Sundays Features: Magazine | Folio | Magazine * Whatever happened to the 60 million tonnes? * THE fortnight before the terrorist attacks in the United States, there was one issue, which dominated public discourse in India. Everyone's attention was on the starvation deaths in Kashipur. Consequently, a great deal of publicity was being given to the Supreme Court hearings on a public interest litigation petition that dealt with the Indian citizen's right to food. As a result, the newspapers and magazines were also full of analysis of grain rotting in overflowing godowns. And the airwaves were choked with discussions on the food mountain of 60 million tonnes. Everyone professed to be shocked with this situation of chronic hunger amidst such plenty. Does any one remember all this? Those 60 million tonnes of food are still there in the FCI godowns; indeed they are growing by the day. And it does not require mention that at least one-third of all Indians continue to suffer from malnutrition. Some economists even say that with the Government's handling of the situation, we should not be surprised if by the end of next year we have close to 100 million tonnes of food stocks — or 100 kg of grain for every Indian, starving or not. Nothing has changed then since early September. But you would not think so, considering that the issue has just vanished from the radar of public consciousness. The reason this has happened is, of course, the September 11 incidents in the U.S. Since then we have had no time for anything other than those events and their fall-out in South Asia. All other issues appear to have been erased from our media, our public discussions and our conversations. The terrorist attacks and what have followed are extremely important. In many ways, nothing will be the same not just in the U.S. but in India as well. But that was not the end of the world. Indeed, if the attacks on WTC were a crime against humanity, the wasting of 62 million tonnes too is one against all Indians. It is not that there have been no developments of note on the food mountain front. The Government launched a new employment guarantee programme — the Sampoorna Grameen Rozgar Yojana — which would make some use of the cereals. But the only attention it received was some brief notice, which was also more in the form of hand wringing about another scheme that was to consume more public money. While inaugurating the launch of this programme in a village in U.P., the Prime Minister, Mr. Atal Behari Vajpayee, said something to the effect that the people who died in Kashipur had cash at homes and had bank accounts with money, implying that they could not have died of hunger. But even such stupefying statements escaped notice. And the Government pegged the price it would pay for paddy this year at a level that is going to make the problem of overflowing godowns worse and not better in the coming months. In the meanwhile, the Central Government has taken some decisions and issued some meaningless orders about the stocking of grain in the public distribution system, while the Supreme Court has given directions to State Governments asking them to do in a few weeks what they had not done for and years months - identifying the beneficiaries of a couple of government schemes. In early November, the Supreme Court is going to resume its hearings on the PIL. You can bet that our attention will be elsewhere. May be it is time we acknowledged that the issues of the day are like fashions. They seem to arrive, hold everybody's attention for a while and then disappear. Even when it is about something as essential as the right to food. C. RAMMANOHAR REDDY E-mail the writer at crr100 at india.com Send this article to Friends by E-Mail Magazine Features: Magazine | Folio | Select Articles * * - * Never a good war or a bad peace * - * A search for alternatives to hate * - * The show must go on * - * Canonising Crime * Archives - Date - Issues - Cusine - Travel - Gardening *News* * News Update Front Page National Regional: • Southern States • Other States International Opinion Business Sport Miscellaneous Index * * * ------------------------------ The Hindu Group: Home | About Us| Copyright | Archives| Contacts | Subscription Group Sites: The Hindu | Business Line| The Sportstar | Frontline| Home | Comments to : thehindu at vsnl.com Copyright © 2001, The Hindu Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of The Hindu ------------------------------ From pheeta.ram at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 23:19:45 2009 From: pheeta.ram at gmail.com (Pheeta Ram) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 23:19:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5bedab660908071049u7ccc0a07xb024734f89a74a41@mail.gmail.com> Breathless!!!!Do you need more... On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Online edition of India's National Newspaper > Sunday, Oct 28, 2001 Business Line The Sportstar Frontline The Hindu > About Us > Contact Us *Magazine* > Published on Sundays > > Features: Magazine | > Folio | > Magazine > > * Whatever happened to the 60 million tonnes? * > > THE fortnight before the terrorist attacks in the United States, there was > one issue, which dominated public discourse in India. Everyone's attention > was on the starvation deaths in Kashipur. Consequently, a great deal of > publicity was being given to the Supreme Court hearings on a public > interest > litigation petition that dealt with the Indian citizen's right to food. As > a > result, the newspapers and magazines were also full of analysis of grain > rotting in overflowing godowns. And the airwaves were choked with > discussions on the food mountain of 60 million tonnes. Everyone professed > to > be shocked with this situation of chronic hunger amidst such plenty. Does > any one remember all this? Those 60 million tonnes of food are still there > in the FCI godowns; indeed they are growing by the day. And it does not > require mention that at least one-third of all Indians continue to suffer > from malnutrition. Some economists even say that with the Government's > handling of the situation, we should not be surprised if by the end of next > year we have close to 100 million tonnes of food stocks — or 100 kg of > grain > for every Indian, starving or not. Nothing has changed then since early > September. But you would not think so, considering that the issue has just > vanished from the radar of public consciousness. The reason this has > happened is, of course, the September 11 incidents in the U.S. Since then > we > have had no time for anything other than those events and their fall-out in > South Asia. All other issues appear to have been erased from our media, our > public discussions and our conversations. The terrorist attacks and what > have followed are extremely important. In many ways, nothing will be the > same not just in the U.S. but in India as well. But that was not the end of > the world. Indeed, if the attacks on WTC were a crime against humanity, the > wasting of 62 million tonnes too is one against all Indians. It is not that > there have been no developments of note on the food mountain front. The > Government launched a new employment guarantee programme — the Sampoorna > Grameen Rozgar Yojana — which would make some use of the cereals. But the > only attention it received was some brief notice, which was also more in > the > form of hand wringing about another scheme that was to consume more public > money. While inaugurating the launch of this programme in a village in > U.P., > the Prime Minister, Mr. Atal Behari Vajpayee, said something to the effect > that the people who died in Kashipur had cash at homes and had bank > accounts > with money, implying that they could not have died of hunger. But even such > stupefying statements escaped notice. And the Government pegged the price > it > would pay for paddy this year at a level that is going to make the problem > of overflowing godowns worse and not better in the coming months. In the > meanwhile, the Central Government has taken some decisions and issued some > meaningless orders about the stocking of grain in the public distribution > system, while the Supreme Court has given directions to State Governments > asking them to do in a few weeks what they had not done for and years > months > - identifying the beneficiaries of a couple of government schemes. In early > November, the Supreme Court is going to resume its hearings on the PIL. You > can bet that our attention will be elsewhere. May be it is time we > acknowledged that the issues of the day are like fashions. They seem to > arrive, hold everybody's attention for a while and then disappear. Even > when > it is about something as essential as the right to food. > > C. RAMMANOHAR REDDY > > E-mail the writer at crr100 at india.com > > Send this article to Friends by > E-Mail< > http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thscrip/pgemail.pl?date=2001/10/28/&prd=mag& > > > > Magazine > Features: Magazine | > Folio | > > > Select Articles * * > - * Never a good war or a bad > peace< > http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mag/2001/10/28/stories/2001102800390101.htm > > > * > - * A search for alternatives to > hate< > http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mag/2001/10/28/stories/2001102800350201.htm > > > * > - * The show must go > on< > http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mag/2001/10/28/stories/2001102800330201.htm > > > * > - * Canonising > Crime< > http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mag/2001/10/28/stories/2001102800030401.htm > > > > * > > > > Archives > - Date > - Issues > - Cusine > - Travel > - Gardening > > > *News* > * News Update > Front Page > National > Regional: > • Southern States > • Other States > International > Opinion > Business > Sport > Miscellaneous > Index > * > > * * > > > ------------------------------ > The Hindu Group: Home | About > Us| > Copyright | > Archives| > Contacts | > Subscription > Group Sites: The Hindu | Business > Line| The > Sportstar | > Frontline| > Home | > > Comments to : thehindu at vsnl.com Copyright © 2001, The Hindu > Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are > expressly prohibited without the written consent of The Hindu > ------------------------------ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 23:23:50 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 23:23:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 8 In-Reply-To: <5bedab660908071049u7ccc0a07xb024734f89a74a41@mail.gmail.com> References: <5bedab660908071049u7ccc0a07xb024734f89a74a41@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Pheeta jee More on what? If on right to food, yes we need more. After all, we have already had enough of time devoted to Hindutva, minority appeasment, BJP, Congress, Gandhi, Nehru, Pakistan, terrorism. Let us also discuss an issue which is somewhat away from all these, and whose importance can't be discarded by any of these, not even terrorists. (That is why even the Taliban would have to design an economic policy over an area they rule, or at least provide money and food to the terrorists they train) Regards Rakesh From shuddha at sarai.net Fri Aug 7 23:41:34 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 23:41:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] List of Killed, Arrested, Detained and Missing in Iran Message-ID: <4CD52BFE-162C-425D-A089-635825CC3C3C@sarai.net> For all those who are following the situation in Iran - here is a very thorough blog-post on the numbers and names of people killed, arrested, detained and/or missing in Iran. http://shooresh1917.blogspot.com/2009/07/list-of-killedarrested-and- released-in.html in solidarity with the people of Iran best Shuddha Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From taraprakash at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 01:43:07 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:13:07 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on References: Message-ID: <13D1486371794E08BAD8CE2CAF7A7744@tara> Dear all and dear LA. The blind, just as the sighted throughout the world, will have different opinions about this article. Some blind readers will find it biased, others may find it objective. Whatever you wanted to state, please do not equate blindness with foolishness. Let us not use the term "blind" in any derogatory sense. The word means only one thing, a creature that does not have eye-sight. Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lalit Ambardar" To: ; <425063.70526.qm at web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com>; Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on > > > > > One must be blind to > miss the glaring bias in this what could best be described as propaganda > material > (if this was an essay, then Goebbels deserved a ‘Noble’ for literature) . > > > > Regards all > > LA > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 21:38:12 +0530 >> From: justjunaid at gmail.com >> To: 425063.70526.qm at web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com; reader-list at sarai.net >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on >> >> Hi Kshmendra, >> >> You have described Prof. Shapiro's essay as "replete with prejudice, >> bias, >> ill-concieved presumptions and mis-constructed deductions". Could you >> actually elaborate and give reasons for your characterization of the >> essay. >> >> Junaid >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________________________________ > News, sports, entertainment and fine living…learn the ropes on MSN India > http://in.msn.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From cashmeeri at yahoo.com Sat Aug 8 01:59:44 2009 From: cashmeeri at yahoo.com (cashmeeri) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:29:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Message-ID: <363709.11365.qm@web112605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> sanjay   my mail was sent to closed web groups   it is unethical of you to put it in public space without my permission   ........ aalok aima --- On Fri, 7/8/09, reader-list-request at sarai.net wrote: Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 20:45:33 +0530 From: Sanjay Kak Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd:  A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on To: Sarai Reader List Yes, I do agree with Junaid that Kshemendra Kaul should engage with Richard Shapiro's arguments, rather than summarily dismiss them... I just received a fwd about the Shapiro piece where Kshemendra's dismissal has already become a venerable quotation for Aalok! Before it becomes graven in stone, we all look forward to a serious engagement. In the spirit of this Reader List, if nothing else! Sanjay Kak ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 8:01 PM Subject: -=Kashmir-Interchange=- Requesting KP intellect - Please respond toRichard Shapiro To: KPNetwork , kashmir-interchange at googlegroups.com, kp-middleeast at yahoogroups.co.in Without any doubt there is a Bank of Intellect that exists amongst KPs, even though it might not be reflected in such habitual 'Hate-Mongers' who while not contributing anything productive to this world only do harm to the KPs and to India. This request is for the KP Bank of Intellect and not the 'Hate-Mongers'. Reproduced below is a piece by Richard Shapiro "A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change" As can be seen after a read, the article (as someone described it):        "...is replete with prejudice, bias, ill-concieved presumptions and mis-constructed deductions. The sweeping generalisations he makes and his misrepresentations bordering on outright lies are only to be expected with his more than evident prejudice and bias." Richard Shapiro is "Chair and Associate Professor, Department of Social and Cultural Anthropology at the California Institute of Integral Studies in San Francisco. (CIIS)" Shapiro is reported as being the spouse of Angana Chatterji who is "Professor of Social and Cultural Anthropology at California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS)". Those who know about Angana Chatterji's  'work' will immediately recognise not only the connections but also the commonality of attitudes towards India  and Kashmir. The KP Bank of Intellect is requested to suitably and through appropiate forums counter the 'case' being presented by Richard Shapiro. Again, the "Hate-Mongers" are requested not to try and essay responses to Shapiro because both their intellectual bankruptcy, ill-informed and compartmentalised world-view and foolish attitudes will be counter-productive. ...... aalok aima From indersalim at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 02:30:40 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 02:30:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on In-Reply-To: <5c5369880908070815m4776168fg3a604d93086b46e2@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c5369880908070815m4776168fg3a604d93086b46e2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70908071400v50a3e44fn7ba29460c6ca2da8@mail.gmail.com> Dear all Before I try to reflect few of lines from Richard Shapiros article...... is creating a new nation state (with a controlled territory ) as much burdened by history as an existinng nation state which is defined by a controlled territory? Has it become almost a habit for all the humanity to identify themselves with a Nation/territory, and to offer an alternaive to that habit, do we necessarily need a new territory only, just another territory with all the boring patterns intact which we once yearned to get rid of. So, let there be a boarderless world. And yes, if new free kashmir leads the humanity to a new path, I imagine the rest of world to follow. Well, Richard sahib writes (1) Massive, non-violent, ethical dissent within Kashmiri > civil society must continue and expand, attentive to alliances that > build stronger relations between men and women, youth and adults, > various faith communities, urban and rural, rich and poor, > facilitative of inclusive forms of polity that enable a diverse, > pluralistic movement for freedom It is normal and idealistic to weave 'thought' with such lucidity which have universal values at the same time. Indeed such a text needs to be followed in sipirit if a movement for freedom is vigrously pursued. But how to Build a stronger relationship between Rich and Poor. Communists talked about it, but we know they were bourgeoisie in diguise. it is better if we talk less about Religous groups who are known to mention 'compassion' all the time but end up persucuting the other. The movement must initiate a debate on how to erase this indifference to the other: the poor, the backwards sections, the rural, and the women etc (2) Leadership must form a unified > coalition that activates and learns from the multiple constituencies > that make up Kashmiri society. Divergent desires and imaginations > regarding the future of Kashmir should be encouraged and discussed, > outside the search for homogeneity or conformity. A Kashmir free of > subjugation should enable multiple forms of life through participatory > democracy, just governance, and economic practice promoting health, > education, and individual and collective prosperity. Natural > resources, like water, should be both safeguarded, and utilized for > sustainable development. Cultural heritage should be understood as an > inheritance of all Kashmiris to fashion a unique society nurturing > hospitality, innovation, and multicultural polity We have Huriyat in Kashmir as coliation, and we all know how less unfied they are. It is on record that during Amarnath Agitation Geelani sahib declared that he is the only meaningful leader representing Kashmir Freedom Movement, which rest of leaders decried. They need to sit and sort out the the differentces about their respective stands on Kashmir. If they all stand for a merger with Pakistan, we should respect that, but let therebe one opnion, and if they stand for 'independace' from both Pakistan and India, then that too should be respected. About natural resources of Kashmir. Well, Kashmir is not an expection, and is prestnly facing environmental degradation as rest of third world countires are. About water, do Kashmirs need to build dams or find some other ways to know their ways to sustain. About Cultural heritage of all Kashmiris: it is here, that Kashmiris will actually find it difficult to find one voice. To talk about a Budhist, Hindu and Sufi past is not easty to debate in kashmir. On the sufrace on Islam floats freely in Kashmir. The reason is simple: they look similar to Indians if otherwise, and i again blame the Indian occupation of Kashmir which has pushed the Kashmiri minds; not to accept that past. But, there must a way out. The intellectuals of Kashmir should talk about that past as freely as Egyptians or Turks or Kurds etc talk about their respective pasts. That indeed would dampen the movement but might generate some new strength and new supporters.Kashmiri language should be encouraged to express the core thoughts of a new free kashmir, besides usual sufi-folk and experimental... Well, Mr. Richard in his 3 and 4 points expects the Indian Institutions to take note of what is happening in Kashmir. Particularly he talks about Hindu groups to go to kashmir and see what Indian secuity foreces have done there, and also meet the delegations from Kashmir. This is indeed a positive sign. I guess, there are arlready some intellectuals in India who empathize with the sad situation in Kashmir. But more such was possible, if Pakistani mind set had not mishandled the existence of small Kashmiri Pandit society in Kashmir It is unfortunate that they had to run to save their life and dignity in 1990. Here, i believe, Kashmir Pandits should play a positive role to understand Kashmir problem and their sufferings of their brethern back in the valley.. This is possible if there are strong signals from Kashmiri majority groups to return to the valley. Blaming Jagmohan ( the Governer 1990 ) for migration of Pandits will be like sprinkling slat on the wounds, which should be avoided. There are some good suggestions by Richard on how to accelrate the movement, but he is seen contantly talking about ethics and non-violence, which he almost says humbly. I said already, that blaming Indians for gross cultural annhillation in Kashmir is out of place. Needless to say that the "Bank of intellect amongst KP's" were not hate mongers always , but perhaps times are such. This is in spite of the fact that there are deep personal relations maintained by both muslims and pandits in and outside the valley. with love is On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Sanjay Kak wrote: > Yes, I do agree with Junaid that Kshemendra Kaul should engage with > Richard Shapiro's arguments, rather than summarily dismiss them... > I just received a fwd about the Shapiro piece where Kshemendra's > dismissal has already become a venerable quotation for Aalok! > > Before it becomes graven in stone, we all look forward to a serious engagement. > In the spirit of this Reader List, if nothing else! > Sanjay Kak > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > Date: Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 8:01 PM > Subject: -=Kashmir-Interchange=- Requesting KP intellect - Please > respond toRichard Shapiro > To: KPNetwork , > kashmir-interchange at googlegroups.com, kp-middleeast at yahoogroups.co.in > > > Without any doubt there is a Bank of Intellect that exists amongst > KPs, even though it might not be reflected in such habitual > 'Hate-Mongers' who while not contributing anything productive to this > world only do harm to the KPs and to India. > This request is for the KP Bank of Intellect and not the 'Hate-Mongers'. > > Reproduced below is a piece by Richard Shapiro "A Just Peace in > Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change" > > As can be seen after a read, the article (as someone described it): >        "...is replete with prejudice, bias, ill-concieved presumptions > and mis-constructed deductions. > The sweeping generalisations he makes and his misrepresentations > bordering on outright lies are only to be expected with his more than > evident prejudice and bias." > > Richard Shapiro is "Chair and Associate Professor, Department of > Social and Cultural Anthropology at the California Institute of > Integral Studies in San Francisco. (CIIS)" > > Shapiro is reported as being the spouse of Angana Chatterji who is > "Professor of Social and Cultural Anthropology at California Institute > of Integral Studies (CIIS)". > > Those who know about Angana Chatterji's  'work' will immediately > recognise not only the connections but also the commonality of > attitudes towards India  and Kashmir. > > The KP Bank of Intellect is requested to suitably and through > appropiate forums counter the 'case' being presented by Richard > Shapiro. > > Again, the "Hate-Mongers" are requested not to try and essay responses > to Shapiro because both their intellectual bankruptcy, ill-informed > and compartmentalised world-view and foolish attitudes will be > counter-productive. > > > ...... aalok aima > > > > South Asia Citizens Web > > > > "A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change" > > > > Tuesday, 4 August 2009 > > > > RICHARD SHAPIRO > > > > sacw.net > > > > > > What are the various roles that diverse constituencies must play to > facilitate political processes that undo militarization and > subjugation in Indian administered Kashmir? How can systemic > structures that institutionalize violence, cultural annihilation, > economic impoverishment, and political disempowerment be countered > through non-violent, ethical resistance? What alliances are necessary > to allow hope for overcoming cycles of oppression and breaking with > histories of domination? How can international, national, and local > actors and institutions work together to disrupt socially unnecessary > suffering and ameliorate the conditions of existence? What forces must > cohere to enable a just peace to emerge in a democratic Kashmir in the > foreseeable future? > > > > > > Numerous obstacles present tremendous challenges to movements for > social justice. The current world order is predicated on systems of > inequality that hierarchically divide countries, peoples, cultures, > classes, genders, sexualities, ethnicities, and faith traditions to > the benefit of the few and the detriment of the many. Dominant powers > prescribe the rules of the game to their advantage and utilize > knowledge, technology, and markets to structure social relations in > their interests. The new global order presents itself as the best of > all possible worlds in which sovereign nation-states organized through > representative democracy, rule of law, free markets with government > regulation, Enlightenment rationality, and human rights are promised > as the solution to the problems of poverty, war, ecological > devastation, genocide, and terrorism. > > > > > > This dominant narrative of progress through the spread of capitalism > organized in nation-states and guided by knowledge has attained > hegemony as it has captured the imagination of postcolonial nations > like India. Postcolonial nations have largely reproduced the > structures of colonial oppression and organized themselves to become > players in the existing global order as militarized, > hyper-masculinized, nuclear powers measuring their worth on the basis > of GDP (Gross Domestic Product). Emerging middle-classes of massive > proportion in postcolonial nations like India buttress this process of > nation building that mirrors and enforces dynamics of globalization > through the production of unparalleled poverty, massive and multiple > dislocations, genocide of indigenous peoples, ecological disaster, and > abundant psychological malaise. India is embraced by the international > community, meaning largely the United States and Western Europe, > precisely because it marches in step with the new world order. India > amasses great cultural capital as “the world’s largest democracy” in > spite of the fact that it is home to 40% of the worlds most > economically destitute, and seeks to constitute itself as a nation > through policies that disregard the needs of the vast majority of its > population. > > > > > > India is inventing nothing new in its self-constitution as a powerful > nation-state. National identity is being fabricated through the > equation of India with Hindus, in blatant form in entities like the > RSS and BJP, and in more subtle form in the Congress and progressive > Indian citizens for whom nationalism linked to ’Hindu cultural > reassertion’ is an unreflective response to a colonial past. The > equation of Hinduism (unity in diversity) and Christianity with > tolerance for difference, and Islam with terrorism, backwardness, and > fanaticism, functions as a global trope supportive of unleashing > disproportionate violence on Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, and > Palestine, as well as within the territory of India in Gujurat, > Orissa, and in the ’disputed territory’ of Kashmir. India forms itself > as nation with unexamined Hindu majoritarianism at its base, just as > unexamined Christian cultural dominance organizes the United States, > rendering explorations of the links between religionization, > nationalism and particular secularisms close to impossible. India is > also typical in its self-formation as nation in fashioning internal > and external enemies as crucial to defining itself, and > super-exploiting its most proximate ’others’ to fuel its prosperity. > European nations had the Jew as internal enemy. The United States is > founded on the backs of its twin others - enslaved Africans and > massacred Native Americans. > > > > > > India has as its main ’internal other’ the Muslim, who can take no > solace in also occupying the role as external enemy in India’s > dominant narrative. This double site is what the state uses to > legitimate the brutalization of the Kashmiri people. Firstly, there is > India’s need for a majority Muslim state within its borders to > legitimate itself as a progressive, pluralistic, secular nation. > Without a Muslim majority state within India, India cannot as easily > legitimate itself as a progressive member of the new global order. > Secondly there is India’s need to establish national identities that > take precedence over regional, local, traditional identities. As a > nation, India is in the process of seeking: (1) to establish > territorial dominion over the current boundaries of the nation, (2) > attain a monopoly on the means of violence, and (3) organize human and > natural resources to enhance the productivity and power of the nation. > Every nation that has achieved the normative status of modern > democracy has utilized sustained and prolific violence to realize > these three imperatives and in the process establish its identity. > India is in a very vulnerable moment in this process as is evident > from an examination of the myriad territories and forces fighting for > autonomy in some form from the Indian state. Part of the strategy to > foster national identity, simultaneous to providing very little to the > vast majority of its population, and in fact fostering mal-development > that impoverishes and displaces poor, rural ’citizens’, is to > fabricate an ’us’ that must protect itself from ’them’. Without > internal enemies India cannot unify itself as a nation. > > > > > > This internal enemy is also resolutely claimed as integral to India. > The state and its loyal subjects repeat the same refrain: ’Kashmir is > an integral part of India.’ ’Kashmir is integral to India.’ Kashmir is > the other that is integral to the self, a difference that is integral > to the identity of India. How then does India treat this other, this > integral difference? To debase, devalue, disrespect, destroy the > people, culture, history, land, waters, aspirations, imaginations, > passions, thoughts, of this other that is claimed as integral to self > reveals much about India’s current state of existence. What other > measure is available to us to assess ourselves as ethical entities > than how we treat the other, how we engage the differences to which we > are ethically obliged to respond? What nation has satisfactorily > answered to this call? If a day arrives when Kashmir is ’a nation unto > itself’, independent and sovereign, an equal to all other nations, > will Kashmir point the nation-state in a new direction? Will the > differences integral to Kashmir be respected, affirmed, heard and > engaged? Will ’the other’ be the call to ’the self’ to practice > hospitality? Will the Gujur, the village woman who buried loved ones > and waits in silence for words of/from other loved ones, the atheist, > the ardent believer, the Shia, the Sufi, the pundit, the Buddhist, the > differently abled, the homosexual, the beggar, the prostitute, be > welcomed as participants in constructing a nation that will be ’a > light unto other nations’? Will the other be welcomed without the > demand or structural incentive to assimilate, to mirror/mimic > dominance to be recognized as human? These questions are too much, > perhaps even unfair. Yet, is it not necessary to raise them? > > > > > > Kashmir occupies a literal and imaginary border as inside and outside > of India in ways that structure an impossible predicament. The state > (and its elites and middle-classes) does not trust Kashmiris whose > allegiance is always presumed to lie with Pakistan as an Islamic > Republic, thus denying Kashmiris the rights of citizens of India, > while asserting the inviolability of its sovereignty over Kashmir as a > secular, democratic nation governed by equality under rule of law. The > distrust legitimates military rule organized through special laws as > necessary to provide law and order as a matter of internal security. > Thus, on the basis of being part of a democratic state, the rights > granted citizens of such a state are denied to Kashmiris. Inclusion in > nation is coupled with dispossession from historical memory, rights, > and life. India legitimates its mistreatment through a logic > originating with European nation-states. This denial of civil and > human rights, rule of law, and the freedoms of citizenship to > Kashmiris is because the state must protect itself from forces within > itself that threaten its character as a lawful, democratic nation. > India must violate what is most inviolable, through a state of > exception (the use of law to suspend law as definitive of > sovereignty), to protect itself. The discourse requires the allegiance > of the Kashmiri people to India, as proof that Kashmiris are not what > the nation suspects - traitors and terrorists, as precondition to > access to the rights of citizenship. These same rights of citizenship > provided by the nation, while denied to Kashmiris, are used by India > to justify its claims to being a legitimate state entitled to act as > it does in Kashmir. As a legitimate state, India is predicated on > civil rights and rule of law that it may legitimately suspend in the > name of national security. Kashmiris must align with India given this > legitimacy, while living as subjects without rights in so far as the > state defines them as a threat to its sovereignty. India must violate > what gives it legitimacy in order to protect itself from the internal > enemy integral to it. India must destroy itself to protect itself. The > state of exception produces a state of autoimmunity. India is also > asserting itself as superior to other regional nation-states, and an > emerging player in relation to Western Europe and the United States. > Like other powerful democracies, India is entitled to do whatever is > necessary to fight terrorism and strengthen itself as a powerful, > sovereign, capitalist nation, aligned with the movement of progress > (dominance). > > > > > > Kashmiris are placed in a situation where allegiance to India as > prerequisite to participation in a lawful democracy involves > allegiance to a state that has no rational basis to demand or expect > allegiance from the people of Kashmir. India needs to exaggerate the > degree of cross-border infiltration and armed Islamist militancy to > rationalize 500,000+ troops, blurred boundaries between police and > army, and massive intervention in daily life through systematic > surveillance, land seizures, checkpoints, torture, disappearances, > gendered and sexualized violence, fake encounter deaths and countless > daily humiliations calculated to break the spirit of the Kashmiri > people. This reality is currently resisted through mass > demonstrations, regular protests, strategic use of elections, > strategic boycott of elections, navigating restrictions on ’free > press’, civil society mobilizations, legal cases, an International > Tribunal, and regular acts of dignity, courage, and faith that > characterize the present in Kashmir. India demonstrates the persona > all too common in the ’league of nations’ - to act with impunity and > disregard for international law and local demands for justice. India > uses this fiction of the Kashmiri as existing in the shadowy space of > inside/outside the nation to legitimate an occupation that ignores the > historical particularity of Kashmir and the promises made to the > people of Kashmir to determine its own future. The plight of Kashmiri > pundits also becomes an opportunity for the state to legitimate > regularized violence and systematic oppression of Kashmiris. Were all > Kashmiris, whether currently residing in the state of Jammu/Kashmir or > elsewhere, to be given voice to express their will, free from > coercion, retribution, and manipulation, the outcome would not be in > doubt. > > > > > > Kashmir is the longest standing disputed area in the United Nations, > the most militarized spot on earth, and a drain on the hopes for > prosperity, peace and freedom for people throughout the subcontinent, > and the world. There is no moving toward peaceful coexistence between > India and Pakistan, no stabilization of the region, no possibility for > global nuclear disarmament, no hope for forms of development that > prioritize sustainability and cultural survival over militarization, > urbanization, and middle-class consumerism, no space for the > impossible healing through mourning/memorializing the trauma of > Partition, without granting self-determination to the people of > Kashmir. > > > > The realization of that which is demanded by rationality in service of > justice and emancipation is always against the odds. In relation to > Kashmir, a more peaceful future requires at least four interrelated > movements: (1) Massive, non-violent, ethical dissent within Kashmiri > civil society must continue and expand, attentive to alliances that > build stronger relations between men and women, youth and adults, > various faith communities, urban and rural, rich and poor, > facilitative of inclusive forms of polity that enable a diverse, > pluralistic movement for freedom. (2) Leadership must form a unified > coalition that activates and learns from the multiple constituencies > that make up Kashmiri society. Divergent desires and imaginations > regarding the future of Kashmir should be encouraged and discussed, > outside the search for homogeneity or conformity. A Kashmir free of > subjugation should enable multiple forms of life through participatory > democracy, just governance, and economic practice promoting health, > education, and individual and collective prosperity. Natural > resources, like water, should be both safeguarded, and utilized for > sustainable development. Cultural heritage should be understood as an > inheritance of all Kashmiris to fashion a unique society nurturing > hospitality, innovation, and multicultural polity. (3) Education and > mobilization to shift public opinion in India must be undertaken > throughout civil society to expand pressure on the Indian state. > Citizen delegations from the various states and communities of India > must visit Kashmir to learn first hand about the atrocities, > resistances, hopes, and concerns prevalent in Kashmir. Such > delegations must bring their new understandings to their > neighborhoods, schools, workplaces, and places of worship to > facilitate discussion and reflection that expand the voices of those > who demand that illegal and immoral action in Kashmir done in their > name immediately cease. Institutions in India must sponsor delegations > from Kashmir, composed of diverse peoples who constitute Kashmiri > society, to share the realities they have suffered and the need for > alliance toward justice. Hindu faith communities must forge > relationships with social justice movements in civil society in > Kashmir to oppose Hindu majoritarian dominance and insist that the > Indian state demilitarize the state of Jammu & Kashmir, become > accountable to international agreements, rule of law, and human rights > as the first step on the road to affirming the right of Kashmir to > self-determination. Universities and the press must play a strong role > in addressing the history and present of Kashmir to empower students > and the citizenry of India to participate as informed members of a > democratic republic, whose resources and conscience are systematically > misused and violated by their government. (4) International > solidarities from citizens, governmental and non-governmental > organizations, students, workers, professionals, public intellectuals, > faith communities, and all interested parties must be organized to > educate, inform, advocate, and mobilize for the liberation of Kashmir. > International institutions must be both utilized and strengthened as > legitimate sites able to hold nation-states legally accountable for > their actions. Research, education, and publication on the reality of > present-day Kashmir and its modern history must be supported by and > within universities, think tanks, and civil society forums. Campuses > must become sites where students mobilize themselves to exert public > pressure to ethically resolve the situation in Kashmir. Resistance in > all four ’sites’ must struggle to establish alliances, clarify goals, > mobilize resources, deconstruct desires, and carve out space where > different forms of polity and community, promoting ethical dissent, > may live. > > > > > > To commit to these practices secures no guarantees. The process must > draw from the resolve of Kashmiris to struggle for justice and > strengthen this resolve through principled alliance that breaks the > isolation and despair that accompanies any people subjected to brutal > mistreatment. The multiple legacies that inspire and haunt us must > become the very sustenance that, through sharing, nurtures our > struggle. Allow me to conclude by drawing from a source common to the > three Abrahamic traditions, and of universal relevance in the present, > Deuteronomy 16:20, Justice, Justice, You Shall Pursue. > > > > > > (Richard Shapiro is Chair and Associate Professor, Department of > Social and Cultural Anthropology at the California Institute of > Integral Studies in San Francisco.) > > http://www.sacw.net/article1090.html > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ > Websites: http://shehjar.kashmirgroup.com >                 http://kashmirgroup.com >                 http://www.indocommunity.us > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "KashmirInterchange" group. > Disclaimer: Views and opinions expressed are only of the persons > posting the mail and not of the Owner/Moderator of Kashmir-Interchange > group and will not be responsible for the contents. > To post to this group, send email to Kashmir-Interchange at googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > Kashmir-Interchange-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/Kashmir-Interchange?hl=en > -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From murali.chalam at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 10:14:22 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 10:14:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] UK National ID card cloned in 12 minutes In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40908070746k6502f7ffr91d95dad3d656ca7@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090806162500.GB10821@narnia.kingsly.net> <35f96d470908060930h2c6ca6f5n8a879a174306678b@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908061030w94a2f4dxb6b4140ac92f68f@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908070207h2bfcbfdco8abf353b967393c6@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908070237o757c8349h125405a4ea18d5ee@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908070251i2d782d5cmf791c2e4fd2d2552@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908070504v784ffe1br4ac13ff87dc5ecb2@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908070746k6502f7ffr91d95dad3d656ca7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908072144x42053cf8j74839e7c929071a7@mail.gmail.com> It is defferntiator betwen a home grown (Born in the land mass called India with the defined boundaries) citizen and 1 one that has been accquired. Regards, V Murali On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 8:16 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > Dear V Murali, > > 'Bhumiputra' is an interesting notion. > > If one is a 'bhumiputra' then one knows that isn't it, so why take a > token from someone to verify that? There seems to be a glitch here > isn't it? Therefore, I am curious to know the nature of the need, > which prompts a 'bhumiputra' to ask for an identity token and the > nature of the need for anyone to give a such a token to ascertain > one's status as a legitimate 'bhumiputra'. > > Do you rally think that bhumiputra is a precise social category of > identification or you foresee it as a broad idea/notion which could be > subject to a range of contesting claims? > > One more thing- when you say 'bhumi' -what measure of scale are you > referring to? > > Is it a- a home, a hospital, a village, an island, a town, a city, a > metropolitan area, a region, a federal state, a provincial state, a > fantastical landmass, a mythical landmass, a piece of land enclosed > within political boundaries, or a piece of land enclosed within > geographical boundaries? > > Personally, I don't know, therefore I would be glad, if you please > throw some light on this. I also have a feeling that even as a > socio-spatial category 'bhumiputra' appears unsettled, is that so? I > know, I could be absolutely wrong here, but nevertheless, I would like > to know what you think? > > Warm regards > > Taha > From bawazainab79 at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 12:27:36 2009 From: bawazainab79 at gmail.com (Zainab Bawa) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 12:27:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Urbanstudy] On Delhi In-Reply-To: <8d5106ed0908032104y2157ad7bgdf51985c9e9127c@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A6FFCEF.90205@ranadasgupta.com> <3ef603b70907290338n186e9077iae894bf724fed429@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40907290441t50fcf5aan650d4f5f76494293@mail.gmail.com> <4A7194A8.70200@ranadasgupta.com> <65be9bf40907300837o7c532fadx92608edbc143d2a2@mail.gmail.com> <4A7416D8.9070501@ranadasgupta.com> <65be9bf40908030043r5a9ec7e2tba7dabc5b1107a7f@mail.gmail.com> <8d5106ed0908032104y2157ad7bgdf51985c9e9127c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Anant, Thanks for the response. I still believe there is a crisis of conceptual handles for not just understanding the city, but also for narrating cities. In making the point about class, the issue that I was raising is that one, while we need to be thankful to Marx and Engels and other grandfathers for producing concepts, the manner in which they conceived them cannot be simply lifted and applied to our conditions. We can work with these concepts, and surely, they can be liberating at some points in time and restrictive at others, but there is also a need to probe into the categories which were used to arrive at these concepts. I find that older categories may not apply in the same way today because certain conditions around us have simply changed drastically. For e.g., the nature of the economy now - it is simply not what the economy was like a century ago or even until 1985. In saying all this, I don't mean to say that the wealth of knowledge and information produced in the past is trash and needs to be rubbished. There is a great deal to learn from that - from the poetry of Marx to the beautiful writings of the factory workers - all of this is extremely valuable and inspiring. But I cannot just directly lift from there and put it into the present when the present is laced with ambiguities, desires, anguish, fear, speed, etc. The other issue is that of 'tropes' and Pheeta's point about who has access to what aspects of the city and also the audiences to who you are narrating the city (and what notions and access the audience has to the city). I am somewhat very uncomfortable with this idea that you are writing for a particular class of audiences and therefore you have to tailor your writing accordingly. I am guilty of this myself on various occasions. But then I wonder: when we talk of transformation, change and revolution in our writing, then is there not a trace of responsibility on us about how we write and who we write? Whether the act of writing itself can be transformative and revolutionary, leave alone the Robin Hood revolution outside? And therefore, even in my last posting, I have asked the question - how do we conceive of change, of justice, of transformation - all these conceptions inform our own actions, including the very mundane acts of writing and talking and the way we write and talk. The issue of whether the people who read us want to have access to those aspects of the city that they otherwise would not know or want to know - here the question again is about the issue of how we conceive transformation and change. The last issue which I want to flag concerns something which I have been thinking about and writing about recently, and this relates to the issue of tropes to write about the city. I have pointed this out in my previous post - we are embedded in the city in more ways than one. And sometimes, it is strange and yet wondrous how we get involved in issues and how we act and react to circumstances. Let me illustrate my point here a little. A couple of months ago, I was talking to Radha. Radha works as a domestic maid and was moved from her squatter settlement about 4 years ago. She has been given a house in one of the 14 rehabilitation and resettlement colonies in Mumbai city. I was talking to Radha to figure out how she felt about the move, about displacement and what value did she see in the house she received as compensation. Here is what she said: "We were moved from A about 4 years ago, given a house in Z. Initially, it was scary and uncomfortable. Then, at some point, I took some loans from my employer and from my paternal aunt and rented out a small place in A. I did not want my children's schooling to suffer with the rehabilitation. So, we came back to A. After all, everything we do is for our children. How I feel about having a house? It is good no? Better than living in a squatter settlement where there is uncertainty and fear of getting evicted every now and then. Yes, we did not pay rent or maintenance in the squatter settlement and now we have to do all of that in our rehab house. At least, the children's future is secure now. We have rented out our house in Z. I visit the house once every year, in the summer holdiays." I assumed from everything that Radha told me that in a way, she is not terribly displeased about having a house. I was about to leave when Radha asked me: "Why are you asking these questions to me?" I said: "I am interested to know about your life, how your life gets affected by rehabiliation and resettlement. Maybe, someday, I will try to make recommendations based on all the stories I hear." And then she said: "Why did you not come earlier, when we are being evicted? At least we would not have been moved!" For a moment, all my conclusions went for a toss. Radha is still ambiguous about the loss and the gain. While on the one hand she talks about her house as asset, on the other hand, her memory and emotions of A as her original place defy a very simplistic understanding of value and of real estate and asset. Radha, in some measure, corresponds with the figure Rana described meeting in the hotel who has the money and yet, who works with certain customs and traditions. It would be somewhat short-sighted of me to conclude that Radha is happy with the housing she has got and she is secure now. Radha is invested in the city in various ways. I spoke to her sister-in-law, Charu, some days later and Charu did not have the same things to tell me. Charu was also anxious about her stay in Z, and yet hopeful that some day, they will return back to A. It is these ambiguities and aspirations which prevent any simple trajectories and understandings of mobilizations, change and revolutions. And it is these ambiguities and aspirations that I find essential to pay attention to in order to understand trajectories and cities. As for tropes, you can continue to use them if you feel that transformation will only happen with some Robin Hood coming and saving the city (and then the question is whether the city really has to be saved, from who, and by who?). Even our man, Mr. Sreedharan, who is helping with building metro rail systems in cities talks about collapse of cities and how cities will crumble if there is no metro rail? Maybe Sreedharan is Robin Hood then ... Saviour to our cities ... Who knows ... Still in love with the dreadful and yet inspiring cities, Zainab On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 9:34 AM, anant maringanti wrote: > 2009/8/3 Zainab Bawa > >> I think there are a few crises that we are facing today, one of them that >> I can immediately think of is a crises of conceptual handles - do old >> concepts and categories apply to our present conditions? Even when we think >> of class, does class exist in the same manner today as Marx spoke of? > > > Zainab, If you are asking whether we can take an essay by Engels on the > English factory working class and learn from it how hawkers in Mumbai live - > the answer is of course not. But what are you concluding from that ? That > the way in Engels wrote about class cannot teach us anything about how to > think about or write about hawkers at VT or the way they navigate the urban > terrain ? Concepts and categories are not ever available as > prefabricated objects. They are constellations of ideas, they bear all sorts > of scents, traces and tentacles. You have to work with them to appreciate > them, reshape them and allow them to shape your thinking. > > To me what you describe above as 'crisis' - is a problem of intellectual > currency. Marx is not included in Vogue 2009 winter collection. He hasnt > been for some years. May be he will be on the cover page next year. I cannot > tell. I would be curious to know. But it doesnt feel like anything remotely > like a crisis where class has become an irrelevant concept. > > To some extent what Taha is pointing to is precisely this. Writers have to > work with available tropes to make sense to readers and yet aspire > to transcend those very tropes. What intellectual, aspirational, emotional > resources the writer mobilizes to do that may vary from writer to writer - > but isnt city writing as much about discovering the city as it is to be > discovered by the city? Revealing oneself so that the city reveals itself. > ? > > The generations of writers and film makers that Taha documents worked from > within tropes of the city as the site of corruption and degradation > an imagination of Indian cities as inefficient, corrupt, bloated, resource > consuming. In the post war period, they located indian cities in a sort of > diagram framed by colonialism as one axis and feudalism as another > axis. There is a strange ideological continuum here from the World Bank > to Chinese Communist Party. > In that spectrum urban writers and creative artists responded in a number > of ways ...from the peculiar jeena yahaan marna yahaan kind of resignation > to lets go back to the village...from inciting revolution to modeling ideal > citizens. > > > Taha identifies an important trope. This identification only confirms what > Gyan Prakash from one end and the World Bank from the other end have said - > within Indian nationalist imagination cities have been seen as 'bad'. There > is a decisive shift occurring now. I am not convinced by this line of > thought. Identification of trope is only the beginning of the story. What > did the writers and artists do with it ? That cannot be judged from within > the trope. To do so is like taking one piece of a jigsaw puzzle and trying > to judge the entire shape. On a hunch, though I would say that by and large, > regional language literatures have been a lot more assertive in seeing > cities as avenues for liberation. Those writers had much less guilt about > their own location to deal with. > > In any case, I am glad that these emails landed in my mail box - I am not > subscribed to sarai reader. The point to me is not whether or not the city > is dark and depressing. Rather, if a writer renders a dark impression of the > city, the question to ask is precisely what aspirations is he or she > enlisting - what possible worlds is he or she conjuring up? > anant > > > > -- Zainab Bawa Ph.D. Student and Independent Researcher Gaining Ground ... http://zainab.freecrow.org http://cis-india.org/research/cis-raw/histories-of-the-internet/transparency-and-politics From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 14:53:00 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 14:53:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Workshop on Reading Outside the Curriculum: Kolkata: Register by Aug 10 Message-ID: *Reading Text: A Workshop with Minu Tharoor on 'Reading Outside the Curriculum' for Students and Teachers* http://www.facebook.com/chintangirishmodi?pub=2309869772&ref=profile#/event.php?eid=134166951348 This workshop is about encouraging students to read outside the curriculum, to enjoy reading, to derive important ideas from what they read, and to relate those ideas to issues that are pertinent to their lives and the world around them. The particular texts that we will discuss are often about unfamiliar places and unexpected circumstances. The power of the writing compels us to confront those subjects, enter their concerns and perhaps reexamine our own assumptions and our interactions with others. These texts also allow us to focus on how to negotiate difference, how conflict and miscommunications occur, but transformation and understanding as well. Among the questions that we will explore through our readings and discussions are: —What kinds of texts (stories, essays, poems) are likely to hold the students’ attention and make reading an attractive exercise? —How can we as educators help them to deepen their experience of reading? —Should students apply all that they read to their own lives and worlds? Is there a value in the unfamiliar? —Stereotypes feature in some of the texts. Why do they exist? How much of them do we share? —These are texts primarily meant for adults. Are they accessible to senior class students? Is the violence in some too disturbing? Faciliatator: Minu Tharoor (Professor of English, New York University) Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009 Time: 3:00pm - 7:00pm Location: The Seagull Arts and Media Resource Centre Street: 36C, S. P. Mukherjee Road, Kolkata Entry Free. But prior registration with name and phone number required. Last date of registration: 10 August 2009 To register, call Megha Malhotra at 2455 6942/43 From yasir.media at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 15:03:56 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?eWFzaXIgftmK2Kcg2LPYsQ==?=) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 14:33:56 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism and terrorism In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908062244m2728dach89a52c87927ce509@mail.gmail.com> References: <4eab87870908062244m2728dach89a52c87927ce509@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0908080233ka84bb88we9bb94c286b8d4b0@mail.gmail.com> asad, did you follow the Khaskheli's who were eveicted illegally by a landlordand were camped outside Karachi Press Club for several months, where one of the older men died, and finally with the help of lawyers they got their land back. the landlord became a fugitive (varyam faqeer, ran away froma a court which his men stormed in a youtube video froma local tv channel) and pir pagaro intervened (as he was his man, to get the land back to the poor folk). This is unheard of. best On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Murali V wrote: > Both Terrorism and Feudalism are dangerous weeds which will have to > controlled. > > India also started as a nation with feudal lords generating bonded labors > who had no access to education. INdia has come a long way since then and > the > feudal system has almost been cleared and as a result bonded labors. This > has resulted in the rural population having access to primary and secondary > education. There is still a long way to go as far as rural education is > concerned, but steps have been continuously taken on this front atleast in > the last 15 years to increase the education infrastructure in the rural > areas. > > Pakistan had also became a nation at the same time, but the focus of > Pakistan was constantly on India and to destabilise ,resulting in good > funds > being diverted to military buildup and promoting militant training camps to > infiltrate into India. > > Pakistan could well understand the history of India since Indepenence and > suitably modify its programs based on India's experience. > > More importantly, the education infrastructure should emphasise on > non-Madrasa form of education system. > > Regards, > V Murali > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:43 AM, asad abbasi >wrote: > > > > > Dear All, > > > > The discourse of feudalism is not only important forPakistan but perhaps > > for South Asia. It requires different intellectuals from various > backgrounds > > to share their views and input their thoughts. > > > > It is important, i must say, because the stereotypical image of Pakistan > is > > of a terrorist nation. It is generally accepted that elimination of > > terrorism from this country will not only benefit Pakistan but the whole > > world. I, on the other hand, beg to differ. Because as i see it , the > > stability of Pakistan is greatly affected by other factors including > > feudalism as much as it depends on terrorism. > > > > A farmer in province of Sindh who works from dawn to dusk just so that he > > and his family can survive. Also, that his children will have to be > farmers > > just like him, because the almighty land lord does not allow children to > > study at the local school.(ie if there is a school at the first place) > > > > What will happen if Pakistan with all her resources try to eliminate > > terrorism. But somewhere in this process neglects the issue of feudalism. > As > > there is no one to watch, feudal lords can only grow in confidence and > may > > start abusing the subjects (farmers in this )even more. > > > > Then Pakistan may have one of the following scenarios in 8-10 years. > > > > a) Pakistan has no terrorists and no terrorist activity > > > > b)Pakistan has insignificant amount of terrorist > > > > c)Pakistan wasted her resources and no damage was done to the hold of > > terrorism. > > > > D) Mixture of any of the above situation. > > > > > > > > Moreover, because the resources were diverted of other issues such as > > tackling feudalism, Pakistan may end up facing externalities for this > > policy. And one side effect can be that, Pakistan will have a generation > of > > uneducated, illiterate and deprived people. Some census say that > Pakistan > > has a literacy ratio of 49%( Even though, i along with so many people > with > > whom i have had the opportunity to discuss this issue, believe that this > > number is clearly an exaggeration and the ratio can not be more that 36%) > > and it is generally accepted that mostly these people live in urban > areas. > > If Feudalism prevails, then majority of 51% (or 64% as in the other case) > > will not have the opportunity to educate themselves. Which, and no sane > > person will argue, will bring any country to developmental halt. > > > > > > > > Terrorism is taking lives and destroying places, where as feudalism is > > making lives worse and destroys the privilege of education. > > > > > > > > It, my friends, is a important issue and just like terrorism should be > > taken seriously. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Asad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Celebrate a decade of Messenger with free winks, emoticons, display pics, > > and more. > > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/ > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From jeebesh at sarai.net Sat Aug 8 15:07:34 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 15:07:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Injustice of our times - Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Vijayan M.J. Date: Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 4:07 PM Subject: Injustice of our times - pls campaign for release of Vikram by US administration To: Dear All, Vikram Buddhi was a graduate student at Purdue University (after MSc at IIT-Bombay, first in class), pursuing his PhD in pure and applied mathematics. In 2005, he criticized the Purdue administration for racism towards an African-American student, who was punished for cheating, while three non-African students were released for the same charge. In January 2006, he was picked up for interrogation by the FBI in regards to an anonymous posting on an internet chat board, urging Iraqis to avenge the deaths of 312769 women and children. This posting called for the assassination of the then president of the US, George W. Bush and several others. After the interrogation, the FBI released him, and also released a document saying that Vikram posed no threat to anybody. At worst, if he did post this (not proven), it was an irresponsible, and possibly inebriated thing to do, which in no way meant that he planned or even wanted the death of anybody. In March 2006, Vikram's father, ex-navy offical Dr. Buddhi Kota Subbarao (former Indian Navy Captain with a PhD in nuclear science) published an article against the US-India nuclear deal:http://www.countercurrents.org/ind-subbarao090306.htm . The following month, Vikram was picked up again by the FBI. This time, for the same charge he was released on and cleared of earlier, he was arrested and incarcerated. Since then, there has been a trial, with a hostile judge who kept key information from the jury, and consequently a guilty verdict. Tellingly, even though the trial was held in July 2007, no sentencing has been done yet, two years later, which means that no appeal can be filed. Vikram remains in jail in Chicago. Tellingly, he spends his time teaching Mathematics to the inmates. Vikram's father, meanwhile, has spent the last three years in the US. Initially allowed in on an emergency 1-year visa, he has been harassed, his passport confiscated and he has been strongly encouraged (as only the authorities can "strongly encourage" someone) to return to India. Much as he wants to (his wife lives alone in Vashi), he cannot leave the US and abandon his son. If he leaves the US, he will not be allowed to re-enter for ten years. This father & son have been harassed enough. There has been no wrong- doing on their part, as is obvious from their backgrounds, as well as the facts of the case. Vikram Buddhi should be released immediately! Kindly visit / sign-online / publish and take up the campaign forward at your end: http://www.petitiononline.com/freevb/petition.html http://freevb.blogspot.com Facebook Group: Justice for Vikram Buddhi Regards, Adv.Somnath Bharti, Anil TV, Sherry, Dr. Viajayaraghavan Chariar, Madhuresh, Vasundhara, Vijayan MJ, others (Contacts: Email: sherryfrosh at gmail.com, Phones: Phones: + 91-11-26680914/883 Fax:26687724) From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Aug 8 15:16:56 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 10:46:56 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] UK National ID card cloned in 12 minutes In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908072144x42053cf8j74839e7c929071a7@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090806162500.GB10821@narnia.kingsly.net> <35f96d470908060930h2c6ca6f5n8a879a174306678b@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908061030w94a2f4dxb6b4140ac92f68f@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908070207h2bfcbfdco8abf353b967393c6@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908070237o757c8349h125405a4ea18d5ee@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908070251i2d782d5cmf791c2e4fd2d2552@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908070504v784ffe1br4ac13ff87dc5ecb2@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908070746k6502f7ffr91d95dad3d656ca7@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908072144x42053cf8j74839e7c929071a7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40908080246w3842035fh409814b7365d93a8@mail.gmail.com> Dear Murali, Thanks for the clarification. I will keep this definition of yours in mind, for all future conversations. I hope you are clear, in what you have thought. Warm regards Taha PS: Just wondering, if according to you, Bhumiputra refers to, 'Born in the land mass called India with the defined boundaries ', then, should all persons born in a land mass of India also known as Pakistan occupied Kashmir be entitled to UIDC, MNIC, Passports etc?They seem to be bhumiputras according to your definition. OR Should all those persons of Indian parentage who were born outside India, maybe because their parents were working abroad be denied such facilities, like citizenship,because, they are not born in the land mass called India with the defined boundaries? From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Aug 8 15:23:47 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 10:53:47 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] UID implementation challenges - 187 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908080253p6da25c9bg9446472f2bd4559f@mail.gmail.com> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Economy/UID-implementation-challenges/articleshow/4869806.cms UID implementation challenges 8 Aug 2009, 1343 hrs IST, S P Ketkar, Who are you? Where are you from? These questions may sound philosophical but need to be answered and substantiated with documentary evidence, if one wants to open a bank account or subscribe to a mobile connection. How does one fulfil these requirements of proof of identity (PoI) and proof of address (PoA)? Well, a passport, driving license, PAN card, voter ID and few other documents can serve the purpose. Given our 15,000 km of international border and 5,500 km of coastline, 24 out of 28 states and five out of seven UTs have one or more international borders or a coastline. In this situation, intelligence agencies find it difficult to keep a check on infiltrators, particularly if illegal immigrants acquire PoIs and PoAs from intermediaries and mingle with common Indians. Therefore, curbing illegal immigration has been one of the main motives of the government in planning a unique ID (UID) for every Indian. UIDs are also expected to be of help in law and order enforcement, implementing the quota system for public distribution, defining social welfare entitlements, financial inclusion and improving overall efficiency of the government administration. So far, various government departments have been issuing certain documents for administering their services and others have been accepting those selectively as PoIs and/ or PoAs. Ration cards, which have been in existence for long are not valid as PoIs. PAN cards being related to income tax have limited coverage and are not acceptable as PoAs. Passports and driving licences serve as PoI-cum-PoA but cover only a small part of our population. EPICs (electoral photo identity cards) or voter ID cards introduced in 1993 have the widest coverage; but even these have reached only 82% excluding Assam. And above all, ill-intentioned individuals can acquire and misuse these documents; like EPICs used not for voting but for acquiring a new mobile connection! Therefore, government has been very keen on 'tamper-proof, non-replicable and unique' ID for every Indian. Knowing the magnitude and complexities involved in issuing ID to each Indian, a pilot project costing Rs 45 crore was undertaken by the government to cover a population of nearly 31 lakh residents in border districts of 12 states and select areas of Delhi. The first lot of MNICs (Multi-Purpose National ID Cards) was issued in Delhi in March 2007. Thereafter, IDs were hibernating for sometime till the government recently announced setting up of a full-fledged UIDAI (Unique ID Authority of India), under the aegis of Planning Commission. It has now decided to cover on priority the 3,331 coastal villages for issue of unique IDs by March 2010. UIDAI is mandated to issue smart card UIDs, develop an online database with identity and biometric details of resident Indians and provide enrolment and verification services across the country. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Aug 8 15:34:31 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 11:04:31 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Army National Guard tells 131, 000 soldiers to look out for identity theft after laptop stolen Message-ID: <65be9bf40908080304m1442e57dycd8ec9fafff11c45@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, Personal Identities of 1,31,000 soldiers of the most powerful national on this earth is under threat, why? Because a laptop, containing their personal data was stolen. Are we in India, heading towards such a scenario? Could we imagine that a (prevention of)Identity theft Law will be introduced in our parliament in the coming years? Or that could we think of a scenario, where police stations across the country will have a identity theft section? Just as, the GOI has information officers for every district so as would there be officers in-charge of identity theft? Just thinking... Warm regards Taha http://gadgetophilia.com/army-national-guard-tells-131000-soldiers-to-look-out-for-identity-theft-after-laptop-stolen/ Soldiers warned about ID theft after laptop stolen MADISON, Wis. — The Army National Guard is warning 131,000 soldiers to take steps to protect themselves from identity theft after a laptop containing their personal information was stolen. Guard officials say the data loss happened when a personal laptop owned by one of their contractors was stolen on July 27. In a statement issued this week, the Guard says the laptop had personal information on current and former soldiers enrolled in the Army National Guard Bonus and Incentives Program. The information included names, Social Security numbers and payment amounts. The National Guard is in the process of informing the affected soldiers, including 1,700 members of the Wisconsin National Guard. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Aug 8 15:52:40 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 11:22:40 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] On the practice of KHOJ Message-ID: <65be9bf40908080322p65d98480yf93f203e5da5ea77@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, The text below refers to a practice of tracking an alleged criminal from village to village through his footprint. This practice was followed in Punjab and nearby areas till late 19th century. For me one of the ways to think about these 'new' technologies, like MNIC, UID etc is to look at it through history. Therefore it was kind of interesting for me to think about this journey which the idea of -tracking- has taken in the last 150 years. From footprint to fingerprint, from criminals to everybody. Please do have a look at the text below which I have copied from a document available at the National Archives of India, New Delhi a few years ago. Warm regards Taha NAI. Home Dept-Judicial-B-18th Oct 1871 no 39 Copy of letter No 292-2444,dated 29th 1861, from officiating Judicial commissioner, Punjab, Secretary to Government, Punjab. “In reply to your no.348, dated 23 rd current, I regret to say that the system so well know in the Punjab and its Dependencies as the Khoj system must necessarily give way before the Indian Penal Code, unless measures are taken to lace the custom on a legal footing. 3. It is based on the principle of Village responsibility, and it partakes both of a Police and a judicial character. A criminal is tracked from village to Village, by professional trackers; as the boundary of each innocent Village is passed, the honest Villager returns to his house with a large heart, and the track is carried on till it leads up to the criminal’s refuge, or lost on a sandy or rocky soil. Extract from “Manual of Punjab Criminal Law” 40. The Khoj system, by which the owners of a village are held accountable for the amount of property stolen, when the footsteps of the thieves are traced within and not beyond the boundaries, has been distinctly recognized by Government. It is ancient, has worked well whenever carefully looked after, and the people are generally attached to it. It has a tendency to excite the community to assist in preventing and detecting crimes, as well as in restraining the inhabitants of Villages from harboring, desperate characters. There is nothing in it opposed to the actual principles of justice, it seems reasonable enough that the villages which harbors and conceals an offender against society, whose headsmen usually share the fruits of his plunder, whose inhabitants refuse to join the hue and cry against criminals, if it is merely from actual apathy and indifference to the public weal, should, under, fear of a penalty , be excited to exert themselves for the general good. But it gives rise to the greatest abuses, if carelessly or badly superintended. The evils of the system are inducement to invent or exaggerate losses, the power it places in the hands of the Police to gratify their revenge and avarice, and the tendency, there undoubtedly exists in the system, to make the sufferer, and the Police rest satisfied in proving the Khoj, instead of following up and securing the perpetrators *. The whole value of the system depends on the way it is worked, and Commissioners must point out, in all cases that may come before them, the errors which the lower courts may have made, and any departure from the Government Rules. • The experiences of two years has convinced me of the bad effects of too great a reliance in the Khoj system. One of the trackers has been convicted of aiding in the escape of a criminal, and others have been dismissed for very palpable negligence. Most of the trackers (and those the most able) were previously connected with robbers, and implicit confidence have been placed in them; they have taken advantage of the circumstance to connive at the escape of real offenders, and perhaps to accuse individuals. Unless their statements are corroborated by extraneous evidence, their assertions cannot safely be credited. Another evil resulting from the general employment of trackers is the laxity which the system produces among the Police seemed to think that any endeavors on their part were useless, although in fact it was then their proper duty commenced”. • Circular Order of judicial Commissioner 1853-56 35. The Khoj system is particularly applicable in the case of cattle theft. The best agency for checking the crime is to be found in the employment of skillful trackers. Injured parties are not prevented from having resort to private trackers whom they may wish to employ, but if they desired to benefit by Khoj Rules, they must give immediate information of their loss to the Police. To prevent cattle stealing graziers on receiving cattle, whether from acquaintances or strangers, should be directed to do so, in presence of the lumberdar and Chowkeedar. This is necessary to prevent graziers, who are often in league with the thieves, from pleading ignorance of the property having been stolen, or that men following their occupation never trouble themselves how or where the cattle were obtained. Also the police should generally receive information of all sales of cattle. CAVEAT- Although I have copied this text with as much diligence as I could, I do not know whether there may have been instances when I might have erred in -exactly coping it as-it-appears-to-be. Therefore, I want to suggest, especially to those people, who may want to use this text for any purpose, that, please use the text here as a mere suggestion and please verify it physically before citing or directly quoting. Any subsequent fault arising from a non-compliance of the above suggestion will not be mine. From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Sat Aug 8 15:53:23 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 10:23:23 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on In-Reply-To: <13D1486371794E08BAD8CE2CAF7A7744@tara> References: <13D1486371794E08BAD8CE2CAF7A7744@tara> Message-ID: No. The ‘word’ was very clearly meant to describe those who are very much ‘sighted’ but are undiscerning & undiscriminating & because of their 'blind faith' see any objectivity in that ‘propaganda’ paper. And let us not digress,please. Regards all LA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: taraprakash at gmail.com > To: lalitambardar at hotmail.com; justjunaid at gmail.com; 425063.70526.qm at web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com; reader-list at sarai.net > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:13:07 -0400 > > Dear all and dear LA. > > The blind, just as the sighted throughout the world, will have different > opinions about this article. Some blind readers will find it biased, others > may find it objective. Whatever you wanted to state, please do not equate > blindness with foolishness. Let us not use the term "blind" in any > derogatory sense. The word means only one thing, a creature that does not > have eye-sight. > > Thanks > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lalit Ambardar" > To: ; <425063.70526.qm at web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com>; > > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 10:10 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on > > > > > > > > > > > > One must be blind to > > miss the glaring bias in this what could best be described as propaganda > > material > > (if this was an essay, then Goebbels deserved a ‘Noble’ for literature) . > > > > > > > > Regards all > > > > LA > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 21:38:12 +0530 > >> From: justjunaid at gmail.com > >> To: 425063.70526.qm at web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com; reader-list at sarai.net > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on > >> > >> Hi Kshmendra, > >> > >> You have described Prof. Shapiro's essay as "replete with prejudice, > >> bias, > >> ill-concieved presumptions and mis-constructed deductions". Could you > >> actually elaborate and give reasons for your characterization of the > >> essay. > >> > >> Junaid > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > News, sports, entertainment and fine living…learn the ropes on MSN India > > http://in.msn.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________________________________ Sports, news, fashion and entertainment. Pick it all up in a package called MSN India http://in.msn.com From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 8 16:11:08 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 03:41:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <625900.47326.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Junaid   Sure I will elaborate on my comments made on Richard Shapiro's essay when time allows me.   You seem to have read the essay and it would seem you disagree with my characterisation of the essay. Is that so?   So that I can better address your request, would you please clarify the following:   - Is it your position that Richard Shapiro has NOT made any 'sweeping generalisations' and 'misrepresentations'?   - Is it your position that Richard Shapiro's essay does NOT make evident any (Anti-India) 'prejudice and bias'?   Kshmendra --- On Thu, 8/6/09, Junaid wrote: From: Junaid Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on To: 425063.70526.qm at web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com, reader-list at sarai.net Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 9:38 PM Hi Kshmendra, You have described Prof. Shapiro's essay as "replete with prejudice, bias, ill-concieved presumptions and mis-constructed deductions". Could you actually elaborate and give reasons for your characterization of the essay. Junaid _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 8 16:13:31 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 03:43:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on In-Reply-To: <5c5369880908070815m4776168fg3a604d93086b46e2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <449896.72232.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Sanjay You suggest 'serious engagement'.   With whom?   Kshmendra --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Sanjay Kak wrote: From: Sanjay Kak Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on To: "Sarai Reader List" Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 8:45 PM Yes, I do agree with Junaid that Kshemendra Kaul should engage with Richard Shapiro's arguments, rather than summarily dismiss them... I just received a fwd about the Shapiro piece where Kshemendra's dismissal has already become a venerable quotation for Aalok! Before it becomes graven in stone, we all look forward to a serious engagement. In the spirit of this Reader List, if nothing else! Sanjay Kak ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 8:01 PM Subject: -=Kashmir-Interchange=- Requesting KP intellect - Please respond toRichard Shapiro To: KPNetwork , kashmir-interchange at googlegroups.com, kp-middleeast at yahoogroups.co.in Without any doubt there is a Bank of Intellect that exists amongst KPs, even though it might not be reflected in such habitual 'Hate-Mongers' who while not contributing anything productive to this world only do harm to the KPs and to India. This request is for the KP Bank of Intellect and not the 'Hate-Mongers'. Reproduced below is a piece by Richard Shapiro "A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change" As can be seen after a read, the article (as someone described it):        "...is replete with prejudice, bias, ill-concieved presumptions and mis-constructed deductions. The sweeping generalisations he makes and his misrepresentations bordering on outright lies are only to be expected with his more than evident prejudice and bias." Richard Shapiro is "Chair and Associate Professor, Department of Social and Cultural Anthropology at the California Institute of Integral Studies in San Francisco. (CIIS)" Shapiro is reported as being the spouse of Angana Chatterji who is "Professor of Social and Cultural Anthropology at California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS)". Those who know about Angana Chatterji's  'work' will immediately recognise not only the connections but also the commonality of attitudes towards India  and Kashmir. The KP Bank of Intellect is requested to suitably and through appropiate forums counter the 'case' being presented by Richard Shapiro. Again, the "Hate-Mongers" are requested not to try and essay responses to Shapiro because both their intellectual bankruptcy, ill-informed and compartmentalised world-view and foolish attitudes will be counter-productive. ...... aalok aima South Asia Citizens Web "A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change" Tuesday, 4 August 2009 RICHARD SHAPIRO sacw.net What are the various roles that diverse constituencies must play to facilitate political processes that undo militarization and subjugation in Indian administered Kashmir? How can systemic structures that institutionalize violence, cultural annihilation, economic impoverishment, and political disempowerment be countered through non-violent, ethical resistance? What alliances are necessary to allow hope for overcoming cycles of oppression and breaking with histories of domination? How can international, national, and local actors and institutions work together to disrupt socially unnecessary suffering and ameliorate the conditions of existence? What forces must cohere to enable a just peace to emerge in a democratic Kashmir in the foreseeable future? Numerous obstacles present tremendous challenges to movements for social justice. The current world order is predicated on systems of inequality that hierarchically divide countries, peoples, cultures, classes, genders, sexualities, ethnicities, and faith traditions to the benefit of the few and the detriment of the many. Dominant powers prescribe the rules of the game to their advantage and utilize knowledge, technology, and markets to structure social relations in their interests. The new global order presents itself as the best of all possible worlds in which sovereign nation-states organized through representative democracy, rule of law, free markets with government regulation, Enlightenment rationality, and human rights are promised as the solution to the problems of poverty, war, ecological devastation, genocide, and terrorism. This dominant narrative of progress through the spread of capitalism organized in nation-states and guided by knowledge has attained hegemony as it has captured the imagination of postcolonial nations like India. Postcolonial nations have largely reproduced the structures of colonial oppression and organized themselves to become players in the existing global order as militarized, hyper-masculinized, nuclear powers measuring their worth on the basis of GDP (Gross Domestic Product). Emerging middle-classes of massive proportion in postcolonial nations like India buttress this process of nation building that mirrors and enforces dynamics of globalization through the production of unparalleled poverty, massive and multiple dislocations, genocide of indigenous peoples, ecological disaster, and abundant psychological malaise. India is embraced by the international community, meaning largely the United States and Western Europe, precisely because it marches in step with the new world order. India amasses great cultural capital as “the world’s largest democracy” in spite of the fact that it is home to 40% of the worlds most economically destitute, and seeks to constitute itself as a nation through policies that disregard the needs of the vast majority of its population. India is inventing nothing new in its self-constitution as a powerful nation-state. National identity is being fabricated through the equation of India with Hindus, in blatant form in entities like the RSS and BJP, and in more subtle form in the Congress and progressive Indian citizens for whom nationalism linked to ’Hindu cultural reassertion’ is an unreflective response to a colonial past. The equation of Hinduism (unity in diversity) and Christianity with tolerance for difference, and Islam with terrorism, backwardness, and fanaticism, functions as a global trope supportive of unleashing disproportionate violence on Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Palestine, as well as within the territory of India in Gujurat, Orissa, and in the ’disputed territory’ of Kashmir. India forms itself as nation with unexamined Hindu majoritarianism at its base, just as unexamined Christian cultural dominance organizes the United States, rendering explorations of the links between religionization, nationalism and particular secularisms close to impossible. India is also typical in its self-formation as nation in fashioning internal and external enemies as crucial to defining itself, and super-exploiting its most proximate ’others’ to fuel its prosperity. European nations had the Jew as internal enemy. The United States is founded on the backs of its twin others - enslaved Africans and massacred Native Americans. India has as its main ’internal other’ the Muslim, who can take no solace in also occupying the role as external enemy in India’s dominant narrative. This double site is what the state uses to legitimate the brutalization of the Kashmiri people. Firstly, there is India’s need for a majority Muslim state within its borders to legitimate itself as a progressive, pluralistic, secular nation. Without a Muslim majority state within India, India cannot as easily legitimate itself as a progressive member of the new global order. Secondly there is India’s need to establish national identities that take precedence over regional, local, traditional identities. As a nation, India is in the process of seeking: (1) to establish territorial dominion over the current boundaries of the nation, (2) attain a monopoly on the means of violence, and (3) organize human and natural resources to enhance the productivity and power of the nation. Every nation that has achieved the normative status of modern democracy has utilized sustained and prolific violence to realize these three imperatives and in the process establish its identity. India is in a very vulnerable moment in this process as is evident from an examination of the myriad territories and forces fighting for autonomy in some form from the Indian state. Part of the strategy to foster national identity, simultaneous to providing very little to the vast majority of its population, and in fact fostering mal-development that impoverishes and displaces poor, rural ’citizens’, is to fabricate an ’us’ that must protect itself from ’them’. Without internal enemies India cannot unify itself as a nation. This internal enemy is also resolutely claimed as integral to India. The state and its loyal subjects repeat the same refrain: ’Kashmir is an integral part of India.’ ’Kashmir is integral to India.’ Kashmir is the other that is integral to the self, a difference that is integral to the identity of India. How then does India treat this other, this integral difference? To debase, devalue, disrespect, destroy the people, culture, history, land, waters, aspirations, imaginations, passions, thoughts, of this other that is claimed as integral to self reveals much about India’s current state of existence. What other measure is available to us to assess ourselves as ethical entities than how we treat the other, how we engage the differences to which we are ethically obliged to respond? What nation has satisfactorily answered to this call? If a day arrives when Kashmir is ’a nation unto itself’, independent and sovereign, an equal to all other nations, will Kashmir point the nation-state in a new direction? Will the differences integral to Kashmir be respected, affirmed, heard and engaged? Will ’the other’ be the call to ’the self’ to practice hospitality? Will the Gujur, the village woman who buried loved ones and waits in silence for words of/from other loved ones, the atheist, the ardent believer, the Shia, the Sufi, the pundit, the Buddhist, the differently abled, the homosexual, the beggar, the prostitute, be welcomed as participants in constructing a nation that will be ’a light unto other nations’? Will the other be welcomed without the demand or structural incentive to assimilate, to mirror/mimic dominance to be recognized as human? These questions are too much, perhaps even unfair. Yet, is it not necessary to raise them? Kashmir occupies a literal and imaginary border as inside and outside of India in ways that structure an impossible predicament. The state (and its elites and middle-classes) does not trust Kashmiris whose allegiance is always presumed to lie with Pakistan as an Islamic Republic, thus denying Kashmiris the rights of citizens of India, while asserting the inviolability of its sovereignty over Kashmir as a secular, democratic nation governed by equality under rule of law. The distrust legitimates military rule organized through special laws as necessary to provide law and order as a matter of internal security. Thus, on the basis of being part of a democratic state, the rights granted citizens of such a state are denied to Kashmiris. Inclusion in nation is coupled with dispossession from historical memory, rights, and life. India legitimates its mistreatment through a logic originating with European nation-states. This denial of civil and human rights, rule of law, and the freedoms of citizenship to Kashmiris is because the state must protect itself from forces within itself that threaten its character as a lawful, democratic nation. India must violate what is most inviolable, through a state of exception (the use of law to suspend law as definitive of sovereignty), to protect itself. The discourse requires the allegiance of the Kashmiri people to India, as proof that Kashmiris are not what the nation suspects - traitors and terrorists, as precondition to access to the rights of citizenship. These same rights of citizenship provided by the nation, while denied to Kashmiris, are used by India to justify its claims to being a legitimate state entitled to act as it does in Kashmir. As a legitimate state, India is predicated on civil rights and rule of law that it may legitimately suspend in the name of national security. Kashmiris must align with India given this legitimacy, while living as subjects without rights in so far as the state defines them as a threat to its sovereignty. India must violate what gives it legitimacy in order to protect itself from the internal enemy integral to it. India must destroy itself to protect itself. The state of exception produces a state of autoimmunity. India is also asserting itself as superior to other regional nation-states, and an emerging player in relation to Western Europe and the United States. Like other powerful democracies, India is entitled to do whatever is necessary to fight terrorism and strengthen itself as a powerful, sovereign, capitalist nation, aligned with the movement of progress (dominance). Kashmiris are placed in a situation where allegiance to India as prerequisite to participation in a lawful democracy involves allegiance to a state that has no rational basis to demand or expect allegiance from the people of Kashmir. India needs to exaggerate the degree of cross-border infiltration and armed Islamist militancy to rationalize 500,000+ troops, blurred boundaries between police and army, and massive intervention in daily life through systematic surveillance, land seizures, checkpoints, torture, disappearances, gendered and sexualized violence, fake encounter deaths and countless daily humiliations calculated to break the spirit of the Kashmiri people. This reality is currently resisted through mass demonstrations, regular protests, strategic use of elections, strategic boycott of elections, navigating restrictions on ’free press’, civil society mobilizations, legal cases, an International Tribunal, and regular acts of dignity, courage, and faith that characterize the present in Kashmir. India demonstrates the persona all too common in the ’league of nations’ - to act with impunity and disregard for international law and local demands for justice. India uses this fiction of the Kashmiri as existing in the shadowy space of inside/outside the nation to legitimate an occupation that ignores the historical particularity of Kashmir and the promises made to the people of Kashmir to determine its own future. The plight of Kashmiri pundits also becomes an opportunity for the state to legitimate regularized violence and systematic oppression of Kashmiris. Were all Kashmiris, whether currently residing in the state of Jammu/Kashmir or elsewhere, to be given voice to express their will, free from coercion, retribution, and manipulation, the outcome would not be in doubt. Kashmir is the longest standing disputed area in the United Nations, the most militarized spot on earth, and a drain on the hopes for prosperity, peace and freedom for people throughout the subcontinent, and the world. There is no moving toward peaceful coexistence between India and Pakistan, no stabilization of the region, no possibility for global nuclear disarmament, no hope for forms of development that prioritize sustainability and cultural survival over militarization, urbanization, and middle-class consumerism, no space for the impossible healing through mourning/memorializing the trauma of Partition, without granting self-determination to the people of Kashmir. The realization of that which is demanded by rationality in service of justice and emancipation is always against the odds. In relation to Kashmir, a more peaceful future requires at least four interrelated movements: (1) Massive, non-violent, ethical dissent within Kashmiri civil society must continue and expand, attentive to alliances that build stronger relations between men and women, youth and adults, various faith communities, urban and rural, rich and poor, facilitative of inclusive forms of polity that enable a diverse, pluralistic movement for freedom. (2) Leadership must form a unified coalition that activates and learns from the multiple constituencies that make up Kashmiri society. Divergent desires and imaginations regarding the future of Kashmir should be encouraged and discussed, outside the search for homogeneity or conformity. A Kashmir free of subjugation should enable multiple forms of life through participatory democracy, just governance, and economic practice promoting health, education, and individual and collective prosperity. Natural resources, like water, should be both safeguarded, and utilized for sustainable development. Cultural heritage should be understood as an inheritance of all Kashmiris to fashion a unique society nurturing hospitality, innovation, and multicultural polity. (3) Education and mobilization to shift public opinion in India must be undertaken throughout civil society to expand pressure on the Indian state. Citizen delegations from the various states and communities of India must visit Kashmir to learn first hand about the atrocities, resistances, hopes, and concerns prevalent in Kashmir. Such delegations must bring their new understandings to their neighborhoods, schools, workplaces, and places of worship to facilitate discussion and reflection that expand the voices of those who demand that illegal and immoral action in Kashmir done in their name immediately cease. Institutions in India must sponsor delegations from Kashmir, composed of diverse peoples who constitute Kashmiri society, to share the realities they have suffered and the need for alliance toward justice. Hindu faith communities must forge relationships with social justice movements in civil society in Kashmir to oppose Hindu majoritarian dominance and insist that the Indian state demilitarize the state of Jammu & Kashmir, become accountable to international agreements, rule of law, and human rights as the first step on the road to affirming the right of Kashmir to self-determination. Universities and the press must play a strong role in addressing the history and present of Kashmir to empower students and the citizenry of India to participate as informed members of a democratic republic, whose resources and conscience are systematically misused and violated by their government. (4) International solidarities from citizens, governmental and non-governmental organizations, students, workers, professionals, public intellectuals, faith communities, and all interested parties must be organized to educate, inform, advocate, and mobilize for the liberation of Kashmir. International institutions must be both utilized and strengthened as legitimate sites able to hold nation-states legally accountable for their actions. Research, education, and publication on the reality of present-day Kashmir and its modern history must be supported by and within universities, think tanks, and civil society forums. Campuses must become sites where students mobilize themselves to exert public pressure to ethically resolve the situation in Kashmir. Resistance in all four ’sites’ must struggle to establish alliances, clarify goals, mobilize resources, deconstruct desires, and carve out space where different forms of polity and community, promoting ethical dissent, may live. To commit to these practices secures no guarantees. The process must draw from the resolve of Kashmiris to struggle for justice and strengthen this resolve through principled alliance that breaks the isolation and despair that accompanies any people subjected to brutal mistreatment. The multiple legacies that inspire and haunt us must become the very sustenance that, through sharing, nurtures our struggle. Allow me to conclude by drawing from a source common to the three Abrahamic traditions, and of universal relevance in the present, Deuteronomy 16:20, Justice, Justice, You Shall Pursue. (Richard Shapiro is Chair and Associate Professor, Department of Social and Cultural Anthropology at the California Institute of Integral Studies in San Francisco.) http://www.sacw.net/article1090.html --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Websites: http://shehjar.kashmirgroup.com                 http://kashmirgroup.com                 http://www.indocommunity.us You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "KashmirInterchange" group. Disclaimer: Views and opinions expressed are only of the persons posting the mail and not of the Owner/Moderator of Kashmir-Interchange group and will not be responsible for the contents. To post to this group, send email to Kashmir-Interchange at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to Kashmir-Interchange-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Kashmir-Interchange?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Aug 8 16:13:58 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 11:43:58 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] UID implementation challenges - 187 In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40908080253p6da25c9bg9446472f2bd4559f@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40908080253p6da25c9bg9446472f2bd4559f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40908080343na356dbaw166de1254a9d62b6@mail.gmail.com> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Economy/UID-implementation-challenges/articleshow/4869806.cms UID implementation challenges 8 Aug 2009, 1343 hrs IST, S P Ketkar, Who are you? Where are you from? These questions may sound philosophical but need to be answered and substantiated with documentary evidence, if one wants to open a bank account or subscribe to a mobile connection. How does one fulfil these requirements of proof of identity (PoI) and proof of address (PoA)? Well, a passport, driving license, PAN card, voter ID and few other documents can serve the purpose. Given our 15,000 km of international border and 5,500 km of coastline, 24 out of 28 states and five out of seven UTs have one or more international borders or a coastline. In this situation, intelligence agencies find it difficult to keep a check on infiltrators, particularly if illegal immigrants acquire PoIs and PoAs from intermediaries and mingle with common Indians. Therefore, curbing illegal immigration has been one of the main motives of the government in planning a unique ID (UID) for every Indian. UIDs are also expected to be of help in law and order enforcement, implementing the quota system for public distribution, defining social welfare entitlements, financial inclusion and improving overall efficiency of the government administration. So far, various government departments have been issuing certain documents for administering their services and others have been accepting those selectively as PoIs and/ or PoAs. Ration cards, which have been in existence for long are not valid as PoIs. PAN cards being related to income tax have limited coverage and are not acceptable as PoAs. Passports and driving licences serve as PoI-cum-PoA but cover only a small part of our population. EPICs (electoral photo identity cards) or voter ID cards introduced in 1993 have the widest coverage; but even these have reached only 82% excluding Assam. And above all, ill-intentioned individuals can acquire and misuse these documents; like EPICs used not for voting but for acquiring a new mobile connection! Therefore, government has been very keen on 'tamper-proof, non-replicable and unique' ID for every Indian. Knowing the magnitude and complexities involved in issuing ID to each Indian, a pilot project costing Rs 45 crore was undertaken by the government to cover a population of nearly 31 lakh residents in border districts of 12 states and select areas of Delhi. The first lot of MNICs (Multi-Purpose National ID Cards) was issued in Delhi in March 2007. Thereafter, IDs were hibernating for sometime till the government recently announced setting up of a full-fledged UIDAI (Unique ID Authority of India), under the aegis of Planning Commission. It has now decided to cover on priority the 3,331 coastal villages for issue of unique IDs by March 2010. UIDAI is mandated to issue smart card UIDs, develop an online database with identity and biometric details of resident Indians and provide enrolment and verification services across the country. There are no doubts or questions on the intent and the objectives of the UID project. But there are implementation challenges that would test the political will, government's commitment and 'identity' of everyone associated with the ambitious task. And the manner in which such issues are handled and government machinery leveraged for execution will determine the ultimate success of establishing everyone’s identity. The first and foremost challenge is accurate capture of personal information from everyone including the 'uneducated', and error-free entry of the data gathered for issue of ID cards. Department of posts (DoP), with its network of over 150,000 offices can play a vital role in information collection, delivery of ID cards, as centres for reading those "Smart Cards" and for validation of address change requests. Second, centralised storage of personal information heightens the risk of data corruption, unauthorised access, commercial exploitation of the database and use of information for discriminatory treatment based on religion, mother-tongue, domicile state, etc. These risks can be minimised by limiting the UID related data collection, only to the fields relevant for determination of unique ID and not linking this database to any other databases for banking, education, public distribution and so on. Third, given the limited space, UID cards can probably display information printed in say English, Hindi and one more local language. But such cards issued in one state may not make much sense in the interiors of other states. This can be easily handled if memory chips on the cards are loaded with cardholder's details in all scheduled languages. Finally, if 31 lakh MNIC pilot project cost was Rs 45 crore, a provision of Rs 120 crore for UIDs in 2009-10 budget can barely cover another 100 lakh population. Also, cards may get spoiled, misplaced, lost or stolen and the budget must provide for at least one UID per person, every five years. Therefore, for successful implementation of UID in a country of 100-crore population; at an average cost of Rs 100 per card issued, there has to be a UID provision of at least Rs 10,000 crore in every five year plan. (The author is an alumnus of IIM Bangalore.) From murali.chalam at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 16:29:34 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 16:29:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] UK National ID card cloned in 12 minutes In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40908080246w3842035fh409814b7365d93a8@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090806162500.GB10821@narnia.kingsly.net> <35f96d470908060930h2c6ca6f5n8a879a174306678b@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908061030w94a2f4dxb6b4140ac92f68f@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908070207h2bfcbfdco8abf353b967393c6@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908070237o757c8349h125405a4ea18d5ee@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908070251i2d782d5cmf791c2e4fd2d2552@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908070504v784ffe1br4ac13ff87dc5ecb2@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908070746k6502f7ffr91d95dad3d656ca7@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908072144x42053cf8j74839e7c929071a7@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908080246w3842035fh409814b7365d93a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908080359q2467d54ap6a51cfd3deacdd22@mail.gmail.com> POK as such does not fall within the framework of Indian boundaries as per the internationally accepted definitions of Countries. The definition comes to those which are under the direct control of the Govt. of India. Please do let me know if POK comes under the direct control of the Indian Govt. Those born outside India and have citizenship of the country of birth and also those who have given up the Indian citizenship and taken up the citizenship of their country of domicile shall also not come under the definition of Bhumi Putra. They may at best, if given dual citizenship shall hold an NRI status. Regards, V Murali On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 3:16 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > Dear Murali, > > Thanks for the clarification. I will keep this definition of yours in > mind, for all future conversations. I hope you are clear, in what you > have thought. > > Warm regards > > Taha > > PS: Just wondering, if according to you, Bhumiputra refers to, 'Born > in the land mass called India with the defined boundaries ', then, > should all persons born in a land mass of India also known as Pakistan > occupied Kashmir be entitled to UIDC, MNIC, Passports etc?They seem > to be bhumiputras according to your definition. > > OR > > Should all those persons of Indian parentage who were born outside > India, maybe because their parents were working abroad be denied such > facilities, like citizenship,because, they are not born in the land > mass called India with the defined boundaries? > From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 8 16:37:09 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 04:07:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change By Richard Shapiro In-Reply-To: <47e122a70908060204v5febe98dv65142bfa63ac7404@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <492066.80861.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Inder   A citizen of India (which I presume you are) using the phrase "Indian occupation of Kashmir"; Interesting. Doubly interesting since you use the phrase  "Pakistan Administered Kashmir" for that part of J&K which is under Pakistan's control.   That is just a reiteration of my often stated "Nationalist" position.   That said, may I thank you for pointing out some of the critical flaws and half-truths in Richard Shapiro's essay.   Kshmendra --- On Thu, 8/6/09, Inder Salim wrote: From: Inder Salim Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change By Richard Shapiro To: "reader-list" Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 2:34 PM Thanks Dear Khurram for forward, wonderful essay. I quote from the article. “Will the differences integral to Kashmir be respected, affirmed, heard and engaged? Will 'the other' be the call to 'the self' to practice hospitality? Will the Gujur, the village woman who buried loved ones and waits in silence for words of/from other loved ones, the atheist, the ardent believer, the Shia, the Sufi, the pundit, the Buddhist, the differently abled, the homosexual, the beggar, the prostitute, be welcomed as participants in constructing a nation that will be 'a light unto other nations'” It reminds me of the article written by Arundhati Roy some time back, which created a huge storm in Delhi and around, but not because of the above questions which she too raised, but by saying ‘Kashmir needs freedom as much as India needs from Kashmir’. So we have two points, one for the Indian Administration in Kashmir , one for those who want freedom in Kashmir.  Both the parties somehow escape the critical part of it.   The article has not asked a single question to Pakistan Administered Kashmir.  Kashmiris need to ask questions to all. The article has exonerated the entire diplomatic legacy of Anglo-American policies which cleverly divided  Kashmir in 1947 and continued to support that divided legacy, which ensures their sale of Arms in this subcontinent. It is not  difficult to guess how much of both Indian and Pakistani budget contributes in maintaining their defence industry. So why on earth they will let the Kashmir issue be resolved. Needless to mention about what they did in Iraq , Afghanistan or elsewhere in the past. It is a large mess. Blaming India alone will be a short cut to the problem. So how to read the incomplete essay which is nevertheless seriously written and deserves a debate. We all know how WITH DISSENT COMES RESPONSIBILTY, and if in the present we are searching  a non-violent solution to the pending issues based on Ethics then we need to create a situation which gives no excuse to the Indian Army to be there. Let there be no violence, not even a six inch pebble throwing catapult. Let there be creative ways to make the Indian presence irrelevant. One of them is, don’t use the Indian goods, as Gandhi did to British. But it is not easy, there must be other  effective ways too, if there is a will. So, again there are two methodologies which are working in Kashmir. One is Armed Struggle and the other is non-violent strategy. We have no mechanism to talk about the armed part of it, because either we approve that methodology or demand its abandonment.  The blind support to Armed Struggle would automatically tantamount to ‘ bad faith’. Yes, they wont listen to us, because there are mechanisms which legitimizes the others ( American ) intervention simply because there is violence/war on the ground. And Americans like Violence, which suits both Indian and Pakistani position on Kashmir. We are certainly waiting for a simple Sufi Kashmiri version of freedom based on ethics and tolerance for the other. Where is cultural expressioin of freedom, why it is inferior to a gun shot. If we were wise enough in the first place to resolve the issue at our own then we ( Indian and Pakistani) should gift The entire nuclear  weaponry to USA. It is because we are unwise that we approve violence that gives shape to a politics, and we ( writing and reflecting the written ) become end users of their actions. We need to support a change that renders the Violence impotent. Mr. Richard also writes about ‘Cultural Annihilation’ ( of Kashmiris by Indians ) . To club cultural annihilation with Indian Security excesses is again slippery and contrived.  Kashmiris themselves are indifferent to their cultural moorings. But there is a reason for that, which is again because of Indian position with regard to Kashmir. No one can deny that Kashmiri Pandits and Muslims have a shared past in Kashmir but since Kashmiri Pandits are Hindus too, who happen to be Indians too, and therefore, supporters of Indian policy on Kashmir. So, unfortunately, Kashmiri Muslims had to chisel out any similarity that make them resemble Indians. Here, again, we can blame Indian occupation of Kashmir, but at some point of time, Kashmiris need to protect their heritage, culture and language. No excuses, whatsoever. Recently, I happened to visit amazing ruins of Parihaspur of great Lalitaditya of 700 AD. Wahabi radical sect of Islam disapproves presence of such ruins around the place they live. The fear of contamination in fatih leads them to motivate the young to deface the figures in any ruins they discover , which is ‘ swaab’ ( work in the name of god ). Language: I saw many younger generation Kashmiris speaking Urdu ( kashmiri-urdu) to each other even in normal conversation. One of the students said frankly that only Villagers speak now Kashmiri. The modern fast changing life style is the other main reason for  Cultural Annihilation which the intellectuals of Kashmir should take note of, if there is a need for a free and independent Kashmir. Or, if the modern ways of living approve every change we experience then to talk about ETHICS engages the entire changing global scenario on the earth. Then again, we may include ENVIRONMENT to ethics as well. With love is On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Khurram Parvez wrote: > > > A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change > > By Richard Shapiro > > > > > > August 04, 2009 > > http://www.sacw.net/article1090.html > > > > > > What > are the various roles that diverse constituencies must play to > facilitate political processes that undo militarization and subjugation > in Indian administered Kashmir? How can systemic structures that > institutionalize violence, cultural annihilation, economic > impoverishment, and political disempowerment be countered through > non-violent, ethical resistance? What alliances are necessary to allow > hope for overcoming cycles of oppression and breaking with histories of > domination? How can international, national, and local actors and > institutions work together to disrupt socially unnecessary suffering > and ameliorate the conditions of existence? What forces must cohere to > enable a just peace to emerge in a democratic Kashmir in the > foreseeable future? > > > > Numerous obstacles present tremendous > challenges to movements for social justice. The current world order is > predicated on systems of inequality that hierarchically divide > countries, peoples, cultures, classes, genders, sexualities, > ethnicities, and faith traditions to the benefit of the few and the > detriment of the many. Dominant powers prescribe the rules of the game > to their advantage and utilize knowledge, technology, and markets to > structure social relations in their interests. The new global order > presents itself as the best of all possible worlds in which sovereign > nation-states organized through representative democracy, rule of law, > free markets with government regulation, Enlightenment rationality, and > human rights are promised as the solution to the problems of poverty, > war, ecological devastation, genocide, and terrorism. > > > > This > dominant narrative of progress through the spread of capitalism > organized in nation-states and guided by knowledge has attained > hegemony as it has captured the imagination of postcolonial nations > like India. Postcolonial nations have largely reproduced the structures > of colonial oppression and organized themselves to become players in > the existing global order as militarized, hyper-masculinized, nuclear > powers measuring their worth on the basis of GDP (Gross Domestic > Product). Emerging middle-classes of massive proportion in postcolonial > nations like India buttress this process of nation building that > mirrors and enforces dynamics of globalization through the production > of unparalleled poverty, massive and multiple dislocations, genocide of > indigenous peoples, ecological disaster, and abundant psychological > malaise. India is embraced by the international community, meaning > largely the United States and Western Europe, precisely because it > marches in step with the new world order. India amasses great cultural > capital as “the world's largest democracy” in spite of the fact that it > is home to 40% of the worlds most economically destitute, and seeks to > constitute itself as a nation through policies that disregard the needs > of the vast majority of its population. > > > > India is inventing > nothing new in its self-constitution as a powerful nation-state. > National identity is being fabricated through the equation of India > with Hindus, in blatant form in entities like the RSS and BJP, and in > more subtle form in the Congress and progressive Indian citizens for > whom nationalism linked to 'Hindu cultural reassertion' is an > unreflective response to a colonial past. The equation of Hinduism > (unity in diversity) and Christianity with tolerance for difference, > and Islam with terrorism, backwardness, and fanaticism, functions as a > global trope supportive of unleashing disproportionate violence on > Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Palestine, as well as within the > territory of India in Gujurat, Orissa, and in the 'disputed territory' > of Kashmir. India forms itself as nation with unexamined Hindu > majoritarianism at its base, just as unexamined Christian cultural > dominance organizes the United States, rendering explorations of the > links between religionization, nationalism and particular secularisms > close to impossible. India is also typical in its self-formation as > nation in fashioning internal and external enemies as crucial to > defining itself, and super-exploiting its most proximate 'others' to > fuel its prosperity. European nations had the Jew as internal enemy. > The United States is founded on the backs of its twin others - enslaved > Africans and massacred Native Americans. > > > > India has as its main > 'internal other' the Muslim, who can take no solace in also occupying > the role as external enemy in India's dominant narrative. This double > site is what the state uses to legitimate the brutalization of the > Kashmiri people. Firstly, there is India's need for a majority Muslim > state within its borders to legitimate itself as a progressive, > pluralistic, secular nation. Without a Muslim majority state within > India, India cannot as easily legitimate itself as a progressive member > of the new global order. Secondly there is India's need to establish > national identities that take precedence over regional, local, > traditional identities. As a nation, India is in the process of > seeking: (1) to establish territorial dominion over the current > boundaries of the nation, (2) attain a monopoly on the means of > violence, and (3) organize human and natural resources to enhance the > productivity and power of the nation. Every nation that has achieved > the normative status of modern democracy has utilized sustained and > prolific violence to realize these three imperatives and in the process > establish its identity. India is in a very vulnerable moment in this > process as is evident from an examination of the myriad territories and > forces fighting for autonomy in some form from the Indian state. Part > of the strategy to foster national identity, simultaneous to providing > very little to the vast majority of its population, and in fact > fostering mal-development that impoverishes and displaces poor, rural > 'citizens', is to fabricate an 'us' that must protect itself from > 'them'. Without internal enemies India cannot unify itself as a nation. > > > > This > internal enemy is also resolutely claimed as integral to India. The > state and its loyal subjects repeat the same refrain: 'Kashmir is an > integral part of India.' 'Kashmir is integral to India.' Kashmir is the > other that is integral to the self, a difference that is integral to > the identity of India. How then does India treat this other, this > integral difference? To debase, devalue, disrespect, destroy the > people, culture, history, land, waters, aspirations, imaginations, > passions, thoughts, of this other that is claimed as integral to self > reveals much about India's current state of existence. What other > measure is available to us to assess ourselves as ethical entities than > how we treat the other, how we engage the differences to which we are > ethically obliged to respond? What nation has satisfactorily answered > to this call? If a day arrives when Kashmir is 'a nation unto itself', > independent and sovereign, an equal to all other nations, will Kashmir > point the nation-state in a new direction? Will the differences > integral to Kashmir be respected, affirmed, heard and engaged? Will > 'the other' be the call to 'the self' to practice hospitality? Will the > Gujur, the village woman who buried loved ones and waits in silence for > words of/from other loved ones, the atheist, the ardent believer, the > Shia, the Sufi, the pundit, the Buddhist, the differently abled, the > homosexual, the beggar, the prostitute, be welcomed as participants in > constructing a nation that will be 'a light unto other nations'? Will > the other be welcomed without the demand or structural incentive to > assimilate, to mirror/mimic dominance to be recognized as human? These > questions are too much, perhaps even unfair. Yet, is it not necessary > to raise them? > > > > Kashmir occupies a literal and imaginary border > as inside and outside of India in ways that structure an impossible > predicament. The state (and its elites and middle-classes) does not > trust Kashmiris whose allegiance is always presumed to lie with > Pakistan as an Islamic Republic, thus denying Kashmiris the rights of > citizens of India, while asserting the inviolability of its sovereignty > over Kashmir as a secular, democratic nation governed by equality under > rule of law. The distrust legitimates military rule organized through > special laws as necessary to provide law and order as a matter of > internal security. Thus, on the basis of being part of a democratic > state, the rights granted citizens of such a state are denied to > Kashmiris. Inclusion in nation is coupled with dispossession from > historical memory, rights, and life. India legitimates its mistreatment > through a logic originating with European nation-states. This denial of > civil and human rights, rule of law, and the freedoms of citizenship to > Kashmiris is because the state must protect itself from forces within > itself that threaten its character as a lawful, democratic nation. > India must violate what is most inviolable, through a state of > exception (the use of law to suspend law as definitive of sovereignty), > to protect itself. The discourse requires the allegiance of the > Kashmiri people to India, as proof that Kashmiris are not what the > nation suspects - traitors and terrorists, as precondition to access to > the rights of citizenship. These same rights of citizenship provided by > the nation, while denied to Kashmiris, are used by India to justify its > claims to being a legitimate state entitled to act as it does in > Kashmir. As a legitimate state, India is predicated on civil rights and > rule of law that it may legitimately suspend in the name of national > security. Kashmiris must align with India given this legitimacy, while > living as subjects without rights in so far as the state defines them > as a threat to its sovereignty. India must violate what gives it > legitimacy in order to protect itself from the internal enemy integral > to it. India must destroy itself to protect itself. The state of > exception produces a state of autoimmunity. India is also asserting > itself as superior to other regional nation-states, and an emerging > player in relation to Western Europe and the United States. Like other > powerful democracies, India is entitled to do whatever is necessary to > fight terrorism and strengthen itself as a powerful, sovereign, > capitalist nation, aligned with the movement of progress (dominance). > > > > Kashmiris > are placed in a situation where allegiance to India as prerequisite to > participation in a lawful democracy involves allegiance to a state that > has no rational basis to demand or expect allegiance from the people of > Kashmir. India needs to exaggerate the degree of cross-border > infiltration and armed Islamist militancy to rationalize 500,000+ > troops, blurred boundaries between police and army, and massive > intervention in daily life through systematic surveillance, land > seizures, checkpoints, torture, disappearances, gendered and sexualized > violence, fake encounter deaths and countless daily humiliations > calculated to break the spirit of the Kashmiri people. This reality is > currently resisted through mass demonstrations, regular protests, > strategic use of elections, strategic boycott of elections, navigating > restrictions on 'free press', civil society mobilizations, legal cases, > an International Tribunal, and regular acts of dignity, courage, and > faith that characterize the present in Kashmir. India demonstrates the > persona all too common in the 'league of nations' - to act with > impunity and disregard for international law and local demands for > justice. India uses this fiction of the Kashmiri as existing in the > shadowy space of inside/outside the nation to legitimate an occupation > that ignores the historical particularity of Kashmir and the promises > made to the people of Kashmir to determine its own future. The plight > of Kashmiri pundits also becomes an opportunity for the state to > legitimate regularized violence and systematic oppression of Kashmiris. > Were all Kashmiris, whether currently residing in the state of > Jammu/Kashmir or elsewhere, to be given voice to express their will, > free from coercion, retribution, and manipulation, the outcome would > not be in doubt. > > > > Kashmir is the longest standing disputed area > in the United Nations, the most militarized spot on earth, and a drain > on the hopes for prosperity, peace and freedom for people throughout > the subcontinent, and the world. There is no moving toward peaceful > coexistence between India and Pakistan, no stabilization of the region, > no possibility for global nuclear disarmament, no hope for forms of > development that prioritize sustainability and cultural survival over > militarization, urbanization, and middle-class consumerism, no space > for the impossible healing through mourning/memorializing the trauma of > Partition, without granting self-determination to the people of Kashmir. > > > > The > realization of that which is demanded by rationality in service of > justice and emancipation is always against the odds. In relation to > Kashmir, a more peaceful future requires at least four interrelated > movements: (1) Massive, non-violent, ethical dissent within Kashmiri > civil society must continue and expand, attentive to alliances that > build stronger relations between men and women, youth and adults, > various faith communities, urban and rural, rich and poor, facilitative > of inclusive forms of polity that enable a diverse, pluralistic > movement for freedom. (2) Leadership must form a unified coalition that > activates and learns from the multiple constituencies that make up > Kashmiri society. Divergent desires and imaginations regarding the > future of Kashmir should be encouraged and discussed, outside the > search for homogeneity or conformity. A Kashmir free of subjugation > should enable multiple forms of life through participatory democracy, > just governance, and economic practice promoting health, education, and > individual and collective prosperity. Natural resources, like water, > should be both safeguarded, and utilized for sustainable development. > Cultural heritage should be understood as an inheritance of all > Kashmiris to fashion a unique society nurturing hospitality, > innovation, and multicultural polity. (3) Education and mobilization to > shift public opinion in India must be undertaken throughout civil > society to expand pressure on the Indian state. Citizen delegations > from the various states and communities of India must visit Kashmir to > learn first hand about the atrocities, resistances, hopes, and concerns > prevalent in Kashmir. Such delegations must bring their new > understandings to their neighborhoods, schools, workplaces, and places > of worship to facilitate discussion and reflection that expand the > voices of those who demand that illegal and immoral action in Kashmir > done in their name immediately cease. Institutions in India must > sponsor delegations from Kashmir, composed of diverse peoples who > constitute Kashmiri society, to share the realities they have suffered > and the need for alliance toward justice. Hindu faith communities must > forge relationships with social justice movements in civil society in > Kashmir to oppose Hindu majoritarian dominance and insist that the > Indian state demilitarize the state of Jammu & Kashmir, become > accountable to international agreements, rule of law, and human rights > as the first step on the road to affirming the right of Kashmir to > self-determination. Universities and the press must play a strong role > in addressing the history and present of Kashmir to empower students > and the citizenry of India to participate as informed members of a > democratic republic, whose resources and conscience are systematically > misused and violated by their government. (4) International > solidarities from citizens, governmental and non-governmental > organizations, students, workers, professionals, public intellectuals, > faith communities, and all interested parties must be organized to > educate, inform, advocate, and mobilize for the liberation of Kashmir. > International institutions must be both utilized and strengthened as > legitimate sites able to hold nation-states legally accountable for > their actions. Research, education, and publication on the reality of > present-day Kashmir and its modern history must be supported by and > within universities, think tanks, and civil society forums. Campuses > must become sites where students mobilize themselves to exert public > pressure to ethically resolve the situation in Kashmir. Resistance in > all four 'sites' must struggle to establish alliances, clarify goals, > mobilize resources, deconstruct desires, and carve out space where > different forms of polity and community, promoting ethical dissent, may > live. > > > > To commit to these practices secures no guarantees. The > process must draw from the resolve of Kashmiris to struggle for justice > and strengthen this resolve through principled alliance that breaks the > isolation and despair that accompanies any people subjected to brutal > mistreatment. The multiple legacies that inspire and haunt us must > become the very sustenance that, through sharing, nurtures our > struggle. Allow me to conclude by drawing from a source common to the > three Abrahamic traditions, and of universal relevance in the present, > Deuteronomy 16:20, Justice, Justice, You Shall Pursue. > > > > > > Richard > Shapiro is Chair and Associate Professor, Department of Social and > Cultural Anthropology, California Institute of Integral Studies in San > Francisco. > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From indersalim at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 17:39:01 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 17:39:01 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change By Richard Shapiro In-Reply-To: <492066.80861.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <47e122a70908060204v5febe98dv65142bfa63ac7404@mail.gmail.com> <492066.80861.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70908080509n40884f0el4c4a4a6a6ec59b5d@mail.gmail.com> Dear Kshmendra thanks Between Kashmir and Kashmir what is this term LOC. Why India and Pakistan are official about it, and if they are, why the average Indians are hesitant to utter it. And how are Kashmiris on both side not free to talk about the meaning of this term. with LoC , the terms like IAK and PAK become automatic in discussions which yearn to talk freely a bit. Please tell me, why India had to occupy Kashmir in 1947. They should have been left alone. Sheikh was all against merger of Kashmir with Pakistan which was stragecially in the interest of India. But india was content wth some Bakshis and Sadiqs who were interested in money and muscle power. And how to celebrate the sheikh Indira accord when not a single kashmiri supported it. Now, of course, things are markedly different, but where is need to be loud about Nationalism. Imagine how much we spend on Siachen and other weaponery to maintain the boarders with Pakistan. It is a shame that when millions in India are suffering for want of food and other basic facilities we have billions for buying arms. for what, and what is the gain ? Pakistan is not in a position to annex (our) part of Kashmir, but is ready for an independat kashmir, which should be worked out, through negotiations. It is not a secret that Kashmiris have never accepted Indian flag in Kashmir. Let us be realistic, I am Indian as much as you are, and I am unikely to live in a kashmir which is run be intolerant fundamentalits, if islamists take over a free kashmir. But let them be, why to listen each and every day about the security excess and all that, which i beleive is totally unncessary. India should consolidate what they have posibitvely with them. I know lot of lies have gone into the making of Kashmir issue, but history is like that, We need to get rid of our sentimental attachment with Kashmir. Our liasons with a territory based past is vanishable, our past based on profound understandings of the other is lasting. Beleive me, if i was a kashmiri muslim, i would have criticized each and every violent move that supports azadi, but that does not mean the issue is irrelavant. I am for an open society, where all kinds of people can coexisit, yes, the ground reality is that Kashmiris are not so condusive to guarantee an idealistic state ( as Richad demanded in his article ) for all the shades of people to live harmonously, but let us accept the facts, and leave them to their own fate. At some point of time, we have to cease to become teachers. let us see, how much free and less prejudiced we are towards the other in Delhi and elsewhere. There is a mountain of mess we are stuck in. The frightening items in list are many . Holding kashmir at gun point and declaring mera bharat mahan hai is something which a poor average Indian fails to understand if there are no two square meals for his family in the evening. with love is On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Inder > > A citizen of India (which I presume you are) using the phrase "Indian > occupation of Kashmir"; Interesting. Doubly interesting since you use the > phrase  "Pakistan Administered Kashmir" for that part of J&K which is under > Pakistan's control. > > That is just a reiteration of my often stated "Nationalist" position. > > That said, may I thank you for pointing out some of the critical flaws and > half-truths in Richard Shapiro's essay. > > Kshmendra > > --- On Thu, 8/6/09, Inder Salim wrote: > > From: Inder Salim > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics > of Change By Richard Shapiro > To: "reader-list" > Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 2:34 PM > > Thanks Dear Khurram for forward, wonderful essay. > > I quote from the article. > > “Will the differences integral to Kashmir be respected, affirmed, > heard and engaged? Will 'the other' be the call to 'the self' to > practice hospitality? Will the > Gujur, the village woman who buried loved ones and waits in silence for > words of/from other loved ones, the atheist, the ardent believer, the > Shia, the Sufi, the pundit, the Buddhist, the differently abled, the > homosexual, the beggar, the prostitute, be welcomed as participants in > constructing a nation that will be 'a light unto other nations'” > > It reminds me of the article written by Arundhati Roy some time back, > which created a huge storm in Delhi and around, but not because of the > above questions which she too raised, but by saying ‘Kashmir needs > freedom as much as India needs from Kashmir’. > > So we have two points, one for the Indian Administration in Kashmir , > one for those who want freedom in Kashmir.  Both the parties somehow > escape the critical part of it.   The article has not asked a single > question to Pakistan Administered Kashmir.  Kashmiris need to ask > questions to all. > > The article has exonerated the entire diplomatic legacy of > Anglo-American policies which cleverly divided  Kashmir in 1947 and > continued to support that divided legacy, which ensures their sale of > Arms in this subcontinent. It is not  difficult to guess how much of > both Indian and Pakistani budget contributes in maintaining their > defence industry. So why on earth they will let the Kashmir issue be > resolved. Needless to mention about what they did in Iraq , > Afghanistan or elsewhere in the past. It is a large mess. Blaming > India alone will be a short cut to the problem. > > So how to read the incomplete essay which is nevertheless seriously > written and deserves a debate. > > We all know how WITH DISSENT COMES RESPONSIBILTY, and if in the > present we are searching  a non-violent solution to the pending issues > based on Ethics then we need to create a situation which gives no > excuse to the Indian Army to be there. Let there be no violence, not > even a six inch pebble throwing catapult. Let there be creative ways > to make the Indian presence irrelevant. One of them is, don’t use the > Indian goods, as Gandhi did to British. But it is not easy, there must > be other  effective ways too, if there is a will. > > So, again there are two methodologies which are working in Kashmir. > One is Armed Struggle and the other is non-violent strategy. We have > no mechanism to talk about the armed part of it, because either we > approve that methodology or demand its abandonment.  The blind support > to Armed Struggle would automatically tantamount to ‘ bad faith’. Yes, > they wont listen to us, because there are mechanisms which legitimizes > the others ( American ) intervention simply because there is > violence/war on the ground. And Americans like Violence, which suits > both Indian and Pakistani position on Kashmir. We are certainly > waiting for a simple Sufi Kashmiri version of freedom based on ethics > and tolerance for the other. Where is cultural expressioin of freedom, > why it is inferior to a gun shot. > > If we were wise enough in the first place to resolve the issue at our > own then we ( Indian and Pakistani) should gift > The entire nuclear  weaponry to USA. It is because we are unwise that > we approve violence that gives shape to a politics, and we ( writing > and reflecting the written ) become end users of their actions. We > need to support a change that renders the Violence impotent. > > Mr. Richard also writes about ‘Cultural Annihilation’ ( of Kashmiris > by Indians ) . To club cultural annihilation with Indian Security > excesses is again slippery and contrived.  Kashmiris themselves are > indifferent to their cultural moorings. But there is a reason for > that, which is again because of Indian position with regard to > Kashmir. > > No one can deny that Kashmiri Pandits and Muslims have a shared past > in Kashmir but since Kashmiri Pandits are Hindus too, who happen to be > Indians too, and therefore, supporters of Indian policy on Kashmir. > So, unfortunately, Kashmiri Muslims had to chisel out any similarity > that make them resemble Indians. Here, again, we can blame Indian > occupation of Kashmir, but at some point of time, Kashmiris need to > protect their heritage, culture and language. No excuses, whatsoever. > > Recently, I happened to visit amazing ruins of Parihaspur of great > Lalitaditya of 700 AD. Wahabi radical sect of Islam disapproves > presence of such ruins around the place they live. The fear of > contamination in fatih leads them to motivate the young to deface the > figures in any ruins they discover , which is ‘ swaab’ ( work in the > name of god ). > > Language: I saw many younger generation Kashmiris speaking Urdu ( > kashmiri-urdu) to each other even in normal conversation. One of the > students said frankly that only Villagers speak now Kashmiri. The > modern fast changing life style is the other main reason for  Cultural > Annihilation which the intellectuals of Kashmir should take note of, > if there is a need for a free and independent Kashmir. Or, if the > modern ways of living approve every change we experience then to talk > about ETHICS engages the entire changing global scenario on the earth. > Then again, we may include ENVIRONMENT to ethics as well. > > With love > is > > > > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Khurram Parvez > wrote: >> >> >> A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change >> >> By Richard Shapiro >> >> >> >> >> >> August 04, 2009 >> >> http://www.sacw.net/article1090.html >> >> >> >> >> >> What >> are the various roles that diverse constituencies must play to >> facilitate political processes that undo militarization and subjugation >> in Indian administered Kashmir? How can systemic structures that >> institutionalize violence, cultural annihilation, economic >> impoverishment, and political disempowerment be countered through >> non-violent, ethical resistance? What alliances are necessary to allow >> hope for overcoming cycles of oppression and breaking with histories of >> domination? How can international, national, and local actors and >> institutions work together to disrupt socially unnecessary suffering >> and ameliorate the conditions of existence? What forces must cohere to >> enable a just peace to emerge in a democratic Kashmir in the >> foreseeable future? >> >> >> >> Numerous obstacles present tremendous >> challenges to movements for social justice. The current world order is >> predicated on systems of inequality that hierarchically divide >> countries, peoples, cultures, classes, genders, sexualities, >> ethnicities, and faith traditions to the benefit of the few and the >> detriment of the many. Dominant powers prescribe the rules of the game >> to their advantage and utilize knowledge, technology, and markets to >> structure social relations in their interests. The new global order >> presents itself as the best of all possible worlds in which sovereign >> nation-states organized through representative democracy, rule of law, >> free markets with government regulation, Enlightenment rationality, and >> human rights are promised as the solution to the problems of poverty, >> war, ecological devastation, genocide, and terrorism. >> >> >> >> This >> dominant narrative of progress through the spread of capitalism >> organized in nation-states and guided by knowledge has attained >> hegemony as it has captured the imagination of postcolonial nations >> like India. Postcolonial nations have largely reproduced the structures >> of colonial oppression and organized themselves to become players in >> the existing global order as militarized, hyper-masculinized, nuclear >> powers measuring their worth on the basis of GDP (Gross Domestic >> Product). Emerging middle-classes of massive proportion in postcolonial >> nations like India buttress this process of nation building that >> mirrors and enforces dynamics of globalization through the production >> of unparalleled poverty, massive and multiple dislocations, genocide of >> indigenous peoples, ecological disaster, and abundant psychological >> malaise. India is embraced by the international community, meaning >> largely the United States and Western Europe, precisely because it >> marches in step with the new world order. India amasses great cultural >> capital as “the world's largest democracy” in spite of the fact that it >> is home to 40% of the worlds most economically destitute, and seeks to >> constitute itself as a nation through policies that disregard the needs >> of the vast majority of its population. >> >> >> >> India is inventing >> nothing new in its self-constitution as a powerful nation-state. >> National identity is being fabricated through the equation of India >> with Hindus, in blatant form in entities like the RSS and BJP, and in >> more subtle form in the Congress and progressive Indian citizens for >> whom nationalism linked to 'Hindu cultural reassertion' is an >> unreflective response to a colonial past. The equation of Hinduism >> (unity in diversity) and Christianity with tolerance for difference, >> and Islam with terrorism, backwardness, and fanaticism, functions as a >> global trope supportive of unleashing disproportionate violence on >> Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Palestine, as well as within the >> territory of India in Gujurat, Orissa, and in the 'disputed territory' >> of Kashmir. India forms itself as nation with unexamined Hindu >> majoritarianism at its base, just as unexamined Christian cultural >> dominance organizes the United States, rendering explorations of the >> links between religionization, nationalism and particular secularisms >> close to impossible. India is also typical in its self-formation as >> nation in fashioning internal and external enemies as crucial to >> defining itself, and super-exploiting its most proximate 'others' to >> fuel its prosperity. European nations had the Jew as internal enemy. >> The United States is founded on the backs of its twin others - enslaved >> Africans and massacred Native Americans. >> >> >> >> India has as its main >> 'internal other' the Muslim, who can take no solace in also occupying >> the role as external enemy in India's dominant narrative. This double >> site is what the state uses to legitimate the brutalization of the >> Kashmiri people. Firstly, there is India's need for a majority Muslim >> state within its borders to legitimate itself as a progressive, >> pluralistic, secular nation. Without a Muslim majority state within >> India, India cannot as easily legitimate itself as a progressive member >> of the new global order. Secondly there is India's need to establish >> national identities that take precedence over regional, local, >> traditional identities. As a nation, India is in the process of >> seeking: (1) to establish territorial dominion over the current >> boundaries of the nation, (2) attain a monopoly on the means of >> violence, and (3) organize human and natural resources to enhance the >> productivity and power of the nation. Every nation that has achieved >> the normative status of modern democracy has utilized sustained and >> prolific violence to realize these three imperatives and in the process >> establish its identity. India is in a very vulnerable moment in this >> process as is evident from an examination of the myriad territories and >> forces fighting for autonomy in some form from the Indian state. Part >> of the strategy to foster national identity, simultaneous to providing >> very little to the vast majority of its population, and in fact >> fostering mal-development that impoverishes and displaces poor, rural >> 'citizens', is to fabricate an 'us' that must protect itself from >> 'them'. Without internal enemies India cannot unify itself as a nation. >> >> >> >> This >> internal enemy is also resolutely claimed as integral to India. The >> state and its loyal subjects repeat the same refrain: 'Kashmir is an >> integral part of India.' 'Kashmir is integral to India.' Kashmir is the >> other that is integral to the self, a difference that is integral to >> the identity of India. How then does India treat this other, this >> integral difference? To debase, devalue, disrespect, destroy the >> people, culture, history, land, waters, aspirations, imaginations, >> passions, thoughts, of this other that is claimed as integral to self >> reveals much about India's current state of existence. What other >> measure is available to us to assess ourselves as ethical entities than >> how we treat the other, how we engage the differences to which we are >> ethically obliged to respond? What nation has satisfactorily answered >> to this call? If a day arrives when Kashmir is 'a nation unto itself', >> independent and sovereign, an equal to all other nations, will Kashmir >> point the nation-state in a new direction? Will the differences >> integral to Kashmir be respected, affirmed, heard and engaged? Will >> 'the other' be the call to 'the self' to practice hospitality? Will the >> Gujur, the village woman who buried loved ones and waits in silence for >> words of/from other loved ones, the atheist, the ardent believer, the >> Shia, the Sufi, the pundit, the Buddhist, the differently abled, the >> homosexual, the beggar, the prostitute, be welcomed as participants in >> constructing a nation that will be 'a light unto other nations'? Will >> the other be welcomed without the demand or structural incentive to >> assimilate, to mirror/mimic dominance to be recognized as human? These >> questions are too much, perhaps even unfair. Yet, is it not necessary >> to raise them? >> >> >> >> Kashmir occupies a literal and imaginary border >> as inside and outside of India in ways that structure an impossible >> predicament. The state (and its elites and middle-classes) does not >> trust Kashmiris whose allegiance is always presumed to lie with >> Pakistan as an Islamic Republic, thus denying Kashmiris the rights of >> citizens of India, while asserting the inviolability of its sovereignty >> over Kashmir as a secular, democratic nation governed by equality under >> rule of law. The distrust legitimates military rule organized through >> special laws as necessary to provide law and order as a matter of >> internal security. Thus, on the basis of being part of a democratic >> state, the rights granted citizens of such a state are denied to >> Kashmiris. Inclusion in nation is coupled with dispossession from >> historical memory, rights, and life. India legitimates its mistreatment >> through a logic originating with European nation-states. This denial of >> civil and human rights, rule of law, and the freedoms of citizenship to >> Kashmiris is because the state must protect itself from forces within >> itself that threaten its character as a lawful, democratic nation. >> India must violate what is most inviolable, through a state of >> exception (the use of law to suspend law as definitive of sovereignty), >> to protect itself. The discourse requires the allegiance of the >> Kashmiri people to India, as proof that Kashmiris are not what the >> nation suspects - traitors and terrorists, as precondition to access to >> the rights of citizenship. These same rights of citizenship provided by >> the nation, while denied to Kashmiris, are used by India to justify its >> claims to being a legitimate state entitled to act as it does in >> Kashmir. As a legitimate state, India is predicated on civil rights and >> rule of law that it may legitimately suspend in the name of national >> security. Kashmiris must align with India given this legitimacy, while >> living as subjects without rights in so far as the state defines them >> as a threat to its sovereignty. India must violate what gives it >> legitimacy in order to protect itself from the internal enemy integral >> to it. India must destroy itself to protect itself. The state of >> exception produces a state of autoimmunity. India is also asserting >> itself as superior to other regional nation-states, and an emerging >> player in relation to Western Europe and the United States. Like other >> powerful democracies, India is entitled to do whatever is necessary to >> fight terrorism and strengthen itself as a powerful, sovereign, >> capitalist nation, aligned with the movement of progress (dominance). >> >> >> >> Kashmiris >> are placed in a situation where allegiance to India as prerequisite to >> participation in a lawful democracy involves allegiance to a state that >> has no rational basis to demand or expect allegiance from the people of >> Kashmir. India needs to exaggerate the degree of cross-border >> infiltration and armed Islamist militancy to rationalize 500,000+ >> troops, blurred boundaries between police and army, and massive >> intervention in daily life through systematic surveillance, land >> seizures, checkpoints, torture, disappearances, gendered and sexualized >> violence, fake encounter deaths and countless daily humiliations >> calculated to break the spirit of the Kashmiri people. This reality is >> currently resisted through mass demonstrations, regular protests, >> strategic use of elections, strategic boycott of elections, navigating >> restrictions on 'free press', civil society mobilizations, legal cases, >> an International Tribunal, and regular acts of dignity, courage, and >> faith that characterize the present in Kashmir. India demonstrates the >> persona all too common in the 'league of nations' - to act with >> impunity and disregard for international law and local demands for >> justice. India uses this fiction of the Kashmiri as existing in the >> shadowy space of inside/outside the nation to legitimate an occupation >> that ignores the historical particularity of Kashmir and the promises >> made to the people of Kashmir to determine its own future. The plight >> of Kashmiri pundits also becomes an opportunity for the state to >> legitimate regularized violence and systematic oppression of Kashmiris. >> Were all Kashmiris, whether currently residing in the state of >> Jammu/Kashmir or elsewhere, to be given voice to express their will, >> free from coercion, retribution, and manipulation, the outcome would >> not be in doubt. >> >> >> >> Kashmir is the longest standing disputed area >> in the United Nations, the most militarized spot on earth, and a drain >> on the hopes for prosperity, peace and freedom for people throughout >> the subcontinent, and the world. There is no moving toward peaceful >> coexistence between India and Pakistan, no stabilization of the region, >> no possibility for global nuclear disarmament, no hope for forms of >> development that prioritize sustainability and cultural survival over >> militarization, urbanization, and middle-class consumerism, no space >> for the impossible healing through mourning/memorializing the trauma of >> Partition, without granting self-determination to the people of Kashmir. >> >> >> >> The >> realization of that which is demanded by rationality in service of >> justice and emancipation is always against the odds. In relation to >> Kashmir, a more peaceful future requires at least four interrelated >> movements: (1) Massive, non-violent, ethical dissent within Kashmiri >> civil society must continue and expand, attentive to alliances that >> build stronger relations between men and women, youth and adults, >> various faith communities, urban and rural, rich and poor, facilitative >> of inclusive forms of polity that enable a diverse, pluralistic >> movement for freedom. (2) Leadership must form a unified coalition that >> activates and learns from the multiple constituencies that make up >> Kashmiri society. Divergent desires and imaginations regarding the >> future of Kashmir should be encouraged and discussed, outside the >> search for homogeneity or conformity. A Kashmir free of subjugation >> should enable multiple forms of life through participatory democracy, >> just governance, and economic practice promoting health, education, and >> individual and collective prosperity. Natural resources, like water, >> should be both safeguarded, and utilized for sustainable development. >> Cultural heritage should be understood as an inheritance of all >> Kashmiris to fashion a unique society nurturing hospitality, >> innovation, and multicultural polity. (3) Education and mobilization to >> shift public opinion in India must be undertaken throughout civil >> society to expand pressure on the Indian state. Citizen delegations >> from the various states and communities of India must visit Kashmir to >> learn first hand about the atrocities, resistances, hopes, and concerns >> prevalent in Kashmir. Such delegations must bring their new >> understandings to their neighborhoods, schools, workplaces, and places >> of worship to facilitate discussion and reflection that expand the >> voices of those who demand that illegal and immoral action in Kashmir >> done in their name immediately cease. Institutions in India must >> sponsor delegations from Kashmir, composed of diverse peoples who >> constitute Kashmiri society, to share the realities they have suffered >> and the need for alliance toward justice. Hindu faith communities must >> forge relationships with social justice movements in civil society in >> Kashmir to oppose Hindu majoritarian dominance and insist that the >> Indian state demilitarize the state of Jammu & Kashmir, become >> accountable to international agreements, rule of law, and human rights >> as the first step on the road to affirming the right of Kashmir to >> self-determination. Universities and the press must play a strong role >> in addressing the history and present of Kashmir to empower students >> and the citizenry of India to participate as informed members of a >> democratic republic, whose resources and conscience are systematically >> misused and violated by their government. (4) International >> solidarities from citizens, governmental and non-governmental >> organizations, students, workers, professionals, public intellectuals, >> faith communities, and all interested parties must be organized to >> educate, inform, advocate, and mobilize for the liberation of Kashmir. >> International institutions must be both utilized and strengthened as >> legitimate sites able to hold nation-states legally accountable for >> their actions. Research, education, and publication on the reality of >> present-day Kashmir and its modern history must be supported by and >> within universities, think tanks, and civil society forums. Campuses >> must become sites where students mobilize themselves to exert public >> pressure to ethically resolve the situation in Kashmir. Resistance in >> all four 'sites' must struggle to establish alliances, clarify goals, >> mobilize resources, deconstruct desires, and carve out space where >> different forms of polity and community, promoting ethical dissent, may >> live. >> >> >> >> To commit to these practices secures no guarantees. The >> process must draw from the resolve of Kashmiris to struggle for justice >> and strengthen this resolve through principled alliance that breaks the >> isolation and despair that accompanies any people subjected to brutal >> mistreatment. The multiple legacies that inspire and haunt us must >> become the very sustenance that, through sharing, nurtures our >> struggle. Allow me to conclude by drawing from a source common to the >> three Abrahamic traditions, and of universal relevance in the present, >> Deuteronomy 16:20, Justice, Justice, You Shall Pursue. >> >> >> >> >> >> Richard >> Shapiro is Chair and Associate Professor, Department of Social and >> Cultural Anthropology, California Institute of Integral Studies in San >> Francisco. >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From kaksanjay at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 18:36:58 2009 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 18:36:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on In-Reply-To: <363709.11365.qm@web112605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <363709.11365.qm@web112605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5c5369880908080606t75c61902k35fda158fb7ca28@mail.gmail.com> My apologies. It was forwarded to me, with no indication that it came from a closed web group. Of course Aalok, as would be obvious, you—or your comments—were incidental to the post. It was more to encourage Kshemendra Kaul to respond on this list. But nevertheless, my apologies for this breach of etiquette. Best Sanjay PS btw, is Sarai reader-list a closed group? Do our posts also make their way to other people outside of subscribers? Just a t On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 1:59 AM, cashmeeri wrote: > sanjay > > my mail was sent to closed web groups > > it is unethical of you to put it in public space without my permission > > ........ aalok aima > > --- On Fri, 7/8/09, reader-list-request at sarai.net > wrote: > > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 20:45:33 +0530 > From: Sanjay Kak > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd:  A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on > To: Sarai Reader List > Yes, I do agree with Junaid that Kshemendra Kaul should engage with > Richard Shapiro's arguments, rather than summarily dismiss them... > I just received a fwd about the Shapiro piece where Kshemendra's > dismissal has already become a venerable quotation for Aalok! > > Before it becomes graven in stone, we all look forward to a serious > engagement. > In the spirit of this Reader List, if nothing else! > Sanjay Kak > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > Date: Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 8:01 PM > Subject: -=Kashmir-Interchange=- Requesting KP intellect - Please > respond toRichard Shapiro > To: KPNetwork , > kashmir-interchange at googlegroups.com, kp-middleeast at yahoogroups.co.in > > > Without any doubt there is a Bank of Intellect that exists amongst > KPs, even though it might not be reflected in such habitual > 'Hate-Mongers' who while not contributing anything productive to this > world only do harm to the KPs and to India. > This request is for the KP Bank of Intellect and not the 'Hate-Mongers'. > > Reproduced below is a piece by Richard Shapiro "A Just Peace in > Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change" > > As can be seen after a read, the article (as someone described it): >        "...is replete with prejudice, bias, ill-concieved presumptions > and mis-constructed deductions. > The sweeping generalisations he makes and his misrepresentations > bordering on outright lies are only to be expected with his more than > evident prejudice and bias." > > Richard Shapiro is "Chair and Associate Professor, Department of > Social and Cultural Anthropology at the California Institute of > Integral Studies in San Francisco. (CIIS)" > > Shapiro is reported as being the spouse of Angana Chatterji who is > "Professor of Social and Cultural Anthropology at California Institute > of Integral Studies (CIIS)". > > Those who know about Angana Chatterji's  'work' will immediately > recognise not only the connections but also the commonality of > attitudes towards India  and Kashmir. > > The KP Bank of Intellect is requested to suitably and through > appropiate forums counter the 'case' being presented by Richard > Shapiro. > > Again, the "Hate-Mongers" are requested not to try and essay responses > to Shapiro because both their intellectual bankruptcy, ill-informed > and compartmentalised world-view and foolish attitudes will be > counter-productive. > > > ...... aalok aima > From yanivbin at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 18:56:14 2009 From: yanivbin at gmail.com (Vinay Baindur) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 18:56:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] UID (and privatising social WELFARE) some IMPLICATIONS COULD BE !!!!!!!!! Message-ID: <86b8a7050908080626h45e57206q2d652c5dd507e31a@mail.gmail.com> this is a pretty horrific tale of things to come if as in the state of Indiana in US, the GoI proposes (Privatising) outsourcing the social welfare system once the Govt has set up UID all for achieving efficiency in subsidies. Its the thought of savings from this that is as scary. and if there are savings where will they be deployed in the framework of structural reforms (FRBMA) as imposed by IMF/IFC/WB/ADB/USAID/DFID etc and accepted by the GoI Vinay July 20, 2009 Privatizing welfare means more fall through cracks, critics say Mishandling of cases has risen since contractor took over By Will Higgins will.higgins at indystar.com EVANSVILLE -- Omega Young lay in her hospital bed, her body wracked with disease. The cancer that started in her ovaries had spread to her kidneys, breast and liver. She'd lost her appetite to the chemotherapy; she weighed 98 pounds. Then came more bad news: After a botched round of telephone tag with welfare officials, the state of Indiana pulled the plug on her Medicaid benefits and food stamps. The 50-year-old Young, who lived alone in a tiny apartment, was frantic. "She'd call me, crying," says Cecilia Brennan, a staffer with Evansville-based Southwestern Indiana Regional Council on Aging. "She'd say, 'What am I going to do?' " Brennan, whose agency advocates for older and disabled adults, blames privatization for putting Young through needless stress during what turned out to be her final days. Brennan is part of a chorus of social workers, lawmakers and aid recipients critical of the service provided by IBM Corp., which in 2007 entered into a 10-year, $1.16 billion deal to manage the state's welfare system. More than a million Hoosiers receive food stamps, Medicaid or Temporary Assistance for Needy Families. In Brennan's view, Young fell through the cracks because she had no champion in the privatized system, which eliminated caseworkers and aims to improve service and save money. State welfare officials declined to comment on individual cases but acknowledge problems with the new system that began with a gradual county-by-county rollout in October 2007. After mounting complaints, the rollout was abruptly halted in March, with 33 counties to go, Marion County among them. Error rates have risen since privatization -- 17.5 percent of interactions with clients in November were mishandled; in December it was 21.4 percent. The latest available statistics for total error rates, 13.3 percent in January, reflect improvement but remain higher than the national average of 11 percent. Gov. Mitch Daniels, who has built a national reputation as a privatization proponent, called IBM's performance "unacceptable" and said that fixing the welfare system was "the number-one priority of our administration." Under pressure from Daniels, IBM last month hired 350 more workers and put its existing staff of 2,350 through additional training. The Indiana Family and Social Services Administration, the state agency that oversees the welfare system, expects to shave $300 million from its costs over 10 years, said Marcus Barlow, an agency spokesman, but the savings won't begin to be realized until 2011. With the new arrangement, welfare recipients can conduct business via computer, or with call-center staffers in person or on the phone. Supporters say this offers recipients greater flexibility. But critics lament the lack of a caseworker's personal touch and say the new system is difficult to navigate, especially by people in dire straits. "Some of these people are just unable to cope and need to be 'mother-henned,' " said Dan Skinner, a Madison County retiree who helped start a food pantry and now helps confused welfare recipients navigate the new system. In Madison County, Tamara Baker said she applied online for Medicaid but couldn't follow through because her confirmation number was changed -- not once but twice -- and the application later lost. She picked up the phone and spent 74 minutes on hold, she said. (FSSA officials say the average time callers are put on hold is one minute, 59 seconds.) As for Young, the cancer patient, Brennan interceded on her behalf and represented her at a Medicaid appeals hearing in February. A few weeks later, an administrative judge ruled in Young's favor. Her benefits were reinstated March 2. Young had died March 1. It was never a matter of life and death, but rather, quality of life. "She was just so sick, so weak," said her sister Christal Bell. "She knew she was going, but she had strong (Christian) faith." Still, Young suffered unnecessarily from the Medicaid problem, said Sen. Vaneta Becker, R-Evansville, a critic of welfare privatization. "Certainly the quality of her life would have been better," Becker said, "and she shouldn't have gone through what she went through." Said Bell: "She worried about her medications, the hospital bills, the works" -- even about getting to her medical appointments. Toward the end, she lay in her bed and obsessed about how much money she owed. She worried that bill collectors would start calling. Her brother-in-law Tom Willis tried to protect her by intercepting her mail. "There'd be a stack of bills, like $10,000," he said. "She'd ask, 'How much?' and I lied and told her $500." Brennan told Young an even bigger fib, and she makes no apologies. In February, while Young was in the hospital for the last time, Brennan told her she'd won her appeal and that her benefits had been reinstated -- before it was official. "She could hardly hold her head up," Brennan said, "but she shook her head and said, 'Good.' I just tried to give her a little peace." Even in death, there was one last delay. Young's body was not cremated until Medicaid paid Mason Brothers Memorial Chapel $1,000, eight days after her death. FSSA Secretary Anne Murphy has said that if IBM's service record does not improve by September, it's possible the contract will be canceled. What would happen then is not clear. "What happens if in September, the system is still not working?" said Rep. Bill Crawford, D-Indianapolis, who served as chairman of the state's Select Joint Commission on Medicaid Oversight and opposes privatization. *"We can't revert back to the state system. There is no state system. The state system has been dismantled. "So what do we do? We don't know."* =========================================================================================================================== http://www.elderlawanswers.com/resources/article.asp?id=7787&Section=4&state= * * *State's Closely Watched Effort to Privatize Its Welfare System in Trouble* Last Updated: 7/24/2009 11:59:00 AM When it signed a 10-year, $1.16 billion contract with IBM in December 2006, Indiana was on track to becoming the first state in the nation to privatize the running of its welfare system, including Medicaid for the elderly. But more than two-thirds of the way towards full implementation, the system has become a billion-dollar disaster according to those who rely on it, and the state is considering canceling the contract. There are widespread reports of applications and claims being mishandled or lost, resulting in applicants being unfairly denied benefits or existing beneficiaries being abruptly dropped from the rolls or experiencing long coverage delays. Some nursing homes are reportedly no longer accepting patients who have applied for Medicaid coverage because they can't be assured that coverage will be properly approved under the privatized system. State officials are demanding improvements, but Indiana is in a bind because, with most of its former governmen-run system dismantled, it has no ready backup plan. Indiana contracted with IBM to computerize and manage its benefit programs for food stamps, Medicaid and cash assistance. At the time, Gov. Mitch Daniels, a Republican who came to politics after a successful business career, said the contract would give Indiana taxpayers "a billion dollars of savings" and serve welfare recipients better. The idea was to replace the expensive, hands-on work by government caseworkers with computers and workers hired and trained by IBM and its partner, Affiliated Computer Services Inc. But as the new system was rolled out on a county-by-county basis, complaints began to mount. Without seasoned caseworkers to shepherd their cases, more and more beneficiaries slipped through cracks in the new system and error rates rose. Those without the resources or persistence to serve as their own advocates were especially vulnerable. One news account tells the story of a cancer patient who suddenly lost her Medicaid coverage and food stamps. Her benefits were finally restored -- the day after she died. With one-third of the counties to go, state officials halted the rollout in March 2009 and have told IBM that its contract could be cancelled if changes aren't made by the end of September. IBM has acknowledged problems and has agreed to hire 350 more workers and put its existing staff through additional training. But with the state's former system in tatters and caseworkers gone, Indiana has nothing it can quickly put in place of the privatized system. "We've kind of got a too-big-to-fail situation now," Indianpolis ElderLawAnswers member attorney Scott Severns told the Associated Press. "There will have to be a workable system built as this one is dismantled. It really is a tragic error." Meanwhile, Severns says that what beneficiaries and applicants are up against "is just horrendous." Among other allegations, former workers at the new system claim that they were told to read from scripts promising benefits in two days, whether or not this was the case. If the Indiana contract is canceled, it would likely set back efforts in other states to outsource and automate welfare systems. Earlier, Texas tried to privatize eligibility screening for such programs as Medicaid and food stamps but canceled the contract in 2007 after a pilot effort resulted in lost applications and thousands of families complaining that their children's health coverage had been canceled. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Citizens' Action Forum" group. To post to this group, send email to citizens-action-forum at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to citizens-action-forum+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/citizens-action-forum?hl=en?hl=en New members are moderated. To be able to post mails to the group immediately on registration, please send your profile and area of interest to this email ID -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From kaksanjay at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 19:07:25 2009 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 19:07:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on In-Reply-To: <449896.72232.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <5c5369880908070815m4776168fg3a604d93086b46e2@mail.gmail.com> <449896.72232.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5c5369880908080637v1f537673m7d0c14469f63ffcd@mail.gmail.com> Apologies for the lack of clarity in my comment: I meant an engagement with the arguments made in the Richard Shapiro piece on Kashmir. And obviously an engagement which leaves out—for the moment—who his spouse may be, or what her thoughts on Kashmir are. Best Sanjay On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Sanjay > You suggest 'serious engagement'. > > With whom? > > Kshmendra > --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Sanjay Kak wrote: > > From: Sanjay Kak > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on > To: "Sarai Reader List" > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 8:45 PM > > Yes, I do agree with Junaid that Kshemendra Kaul should engage with > Richard Shapiro's arguments, rather than summarily dismiss them... > I just received a fwd about the Shapiro piece where Kshemendra's > dismissal has already become a venerable quotation for Aalok! > > Before it becomes graven in stone, we all look forward to a serious > engagement. > In the spirit of this Reader List, if nothing else! > Sanjay Kak > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > Date: Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 8:01 PM > Subject: -=Kashmir-Interchange=- Requesting KP intellect - Please > respond toRichard Shapiro > To: KPNetwork , > kashmir-interchange at googlegroups.com, kp-middleeast at yahoogroups.co.in > > > Without any doubt there is a Bank of Intellect that exists amongst > KPs, even though it might not be reflected in such habitual > 'Hate-Mongers' who while not contributing anything productive to this > world only do harm to the KPs and to India. > This request is for the KP Bank of Intellect and not the 'Hate-Mongers'. > > Reproduced below is a piece by Richard Shapiro "A Just Peace in > Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change" > > As can be seen after a read, the article (as someone described it): >        "...is replete with prejudice, bias, ill-concieved presumptions > and mis-constructed deductions. > The sweeping generalisations he makes and his misrepresentations > bordering on outright lies are only to be expected with his more than > evident prejudice and bias." > > Richard Shapiro is "Chair and Associate Professor, Department of > Social and Cultural Anthropology at the California Institute of > Integral Studies in San Francisco. (CIIS)" > > Shapiro is reported as being the spouse of Angana Chatterji who is > "Professor of Social and Cultural Anthropology at California Institute > of Integral Studies (CIIS)". > > Those who know about Angana Chatterji's  'work' will immediately > recognise not only the connections but also the commonality of > attitudes towards India  and Kashmir. > > The KP Bank of Intellect is requested to suitably and through > appropiate forums counter the 'case' being presented by Richard > Shapiro. > > Again, the "Hate-Mongers" are requested not to try and essay responses > to Shapiro because both their intellectual bankruptcy, ill-informed > and compartmentalised world-view and foolish attitudes will be > counter-productive. > > > ...... aalok aima > > > > South Asia Citizens Web > > > > "A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change" > > > > Tuesday, 4 August 2009 > > > > RICHARD SHAPIRO > > > > sacw.net > > > > > > What are the various roles that diverse constituencies must play to > facilitate political processes that undo militarization and > subjugation in Indian administered Kashmir? How can systemic > structures that institutionalize violence, cultural annihilation, > economic impoverishment, and political disempowerment be countered > through non-violent, ethical resistance? What alliances are necessary > to allow hope for overcoming cycles of oppression and breaking with > histories of domination? How can international, national, and local > actors and institutions work together to disrupt socially unnecessary > suffering and ameliorate the conditions of existence? What forces must > cohere to enable a just peace to emerge in a democratic Kashmir in the > foreseeable future? > > > > > > Numerous obstacles present tremendous challenges to movements for > social justice. The current world order is predicated on systems of > inequality that hierarchically divide countries, peoples, cultures, > classes, genders, sexualities, ethnicities, and faith traditions to > the benefit of the few and the detriment of the many. Dominant powers > prescribe the rules of the game to their advantage and utilize > knowledge, technology, and markets to structure social relations in > their interests. The new global order presents itself as the best of > all possible worlds in which sovereign nation-states organized through > representative democracy, rule of law, free markets with government > regulation, Enlightenment rationality, and human rights are promised > as the solution to the problems of poverty, war, ecological > devastation, genocide, and terrorism. > > > > > > This dominant narrative of progress through the spread of capitalism > organized in nation-states and guided by knowledge has attained > hegemony as it has captured the imagination of postcolonial nations > like India. Postcolonial nations have largely reproduced the > structures of colonial oppression and organized themselves to become > players in the existing global order as militarized, > hyper-masculinized, nuclear powers measuring their worth on the basis > of GDP (Gross Domestic Product). Emerging middle-classes of massive > proportion in postcolonial nations like India buttress this process of > nation building that mirrors and enforces dynamics of globalization > through the production of unparalleled poverty, massive and multiple > dislocations, genocide of indigenous peoples, ecological disaster, and > abundant psychological malaise. India is embraced by the international > community, meaning largely the United States and Western Europe, > precisely because it marches in step with the new world order. India > amasses great cultural capital as “the world’s largest democracy” in > spite of the fact that it is home to 40% of the worlds most > economically destitute, and seeks to constitute itself as a nation > through policies that disregard the needs of the vast majority of its > population. > > > > > > India is inventing nothing new in its self-constitution as a powerful > nation-state. National identity is being fabricated through the > equation of India with Hindus, in blatant form in entities like the > RSS and BJP, and in more subtle form in the Congress and progressive > Indian citizens for whom nationalism linked to ’Hindu cultural > reassertion’ is an unreflective response to a colonial past. The > equation of Hinduism (unity in diversity) and Christianity with > tolerance for difference, and Islam with terrorism, backwardness, and > fanaticism, functions as a global trope supportive of unleashing > disproportionate violence on Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, and > Palestine, as well as within the territory of India in Gujurat, > Orissa, and in the ’disputed territory’ of Kashmir. India forms itself > as nation with unexamined Hindu majoritarianism at its base, just as > unexamined Christian cultural dominance organizes the United States, > rendering explorations of the links between religionization, > nationalism and particular secularisms close to impossible. India is > also typical in its self-formation as nation in fashioning internal > and external enemies as crucial to defining itself, and > super-exploiting its most proximate ’others’ to fuel its prosperity. > European nations had the Jew as internal enemy. The United States is > founded on the backs of its twin others - enslaved Africans and > massacred Native Americans. > > > > > > India has as its main ’internal other’ the Muslim, who can take no > solace in also occupying the role as external enemy in India’s > dominant narrative. This double site is what the state uses to > legitimate the brutalization of the Kashmiri people. Firstly, there is > India’s need for a majority Muslim state within its borders to > legitimate itself as a progressive, pluralistic, secular nation. > Without a Muslim majority state within India, India cannot as easily > legitimate itself as a progressive member of the new global order. > Secondly there is India’s need to establish national identities that > take precedence over regional, local, traditional identities. As a > nation, India is in the process of seeking: (1) to establish > territorial dominion over the current boundaries of the nation, (2) > attain a monopoly on the means of violence, and (3) organize human and > natural resources to enhance the productivity and power of the nation. > Every nation that has achieved the normative status of modern > democracy has utilized sustained and prolific violence to realize > these three imperatives and in the process establish its identity. > India is in a very vulnerable moment in this process as is evident > from an examination of the myriad territories and forces fighting for > autonomy in some form from the Indian state. Part of the strategy to > foster national identity, simultaneous to providing very little to the > vast majority of its population, and in fact fostering mal-development > that impoverishes and displaces poor, rural ’citizens’, is to > fabricate an ’us’ that must protect itself from ’them’. Without > internal enemies India cannot unify itself as a nation. > > > > > > This internal enemy is also resolutely claimed as integral to India. > The state and its loyal subjects repeat the same refrain: ’Kashmir is > an integral part of India.’ ’Kashmir is integral to India.’ Kashmir is > the other that is integral to the self, a difference that is integral > to the identity of India. How then does India treat this other, this > integral difference? To debase, devalue, disrespect, destroy the > people, culture, history, land, waters, aspirations, imaginations, > passions, thoughts, of this other that is claimed as integral to self > reveals much about India’s current state of existence. What other > measure is available to us to assess ourselves as ethical entities > than how we treat the other, how we engage the differences to which we > are ethically obliged to respond? What nation has satisfactorily > answered to this call? If a day arrives when Kashmir is ’a nation unto > itself’, independent and sovereign, an equal to all other nations, > will Kashmir point the nation-state in a new direction? Will the > differences integral to Kashmir be respected, affirmed, heard and > engaged? Will ’the other’ be the call to ’the self’ to practice > hospitality? Will the Gujur, the village woman who buried loved ones > and waits in silence for words of/from other loved ones, the atheist, > the ardent believer, the Shia, the Sufi, the pundit, the Buddhist, the > differently abled, the homosexual, the beggar, the prostitute, be > welcomed as participants in constructing a nation that will be ’a > light unto other nations’? Will the other be welcomed without the > demand or structural incentive to assimilate, to mirror/mimic > dominance to be recognized as human? These questions are too much, > perhaps even unfair. Yet, is it not necessary to raise them? > > > > > > Kashmir occupies a literal and imaginary border as inside and outside > of India in ways that structure an impossible predicament. The state > (and its elites and middle-classes) does not trust Kashmiris whose > allegiance is always presumed to lie with Pakistan as an Islamic > Republic, thus denying Kashmiris the rights of citizens of India, > while asserting the inviolability of its sovereignty over Kashmir as a > secular, democratic nation governed by equality under rule of law. The > distrust legitimates military rule organized through special laws as > necessary to provide law and order as a matter of internal security. > Thus, on the basis of being part of a democratic state, the rights > granted citizens of such a state are denied to Kashmiris. Inclusion in > nation is coupled with dispossession from historical memory, rights, > and life. India legitimates its mistreatment through a logic > originating with European nation-states. This denial of civil and > human rights, rule of law, and the freedoms of citizenship to > Kashmiris is because the state must protect itself from forces within > itself that threaten its character as a lawful, democratic nation. > India must violate what is most inviolable, through a state of > exception (the use of law to suspend law as definitive of > sovereignty), to protect itself. The discourse requires the allegiance > of the Kashmiri people to India, as proof that Kashmiris are not what > the nation suspects - traitors and terrorists, as precondition to > access to the rights of citizenship. These same rights of citizenship > provided by the nation, while denied to Kashmiris, are used by India > to justify its claims to being a legitimate state entitled to act as > it does in Kashmir. As a legitimate state, India is predicated on > civil rights and rule of law that it may legitimately suspend in the > name of national security. Kashmiris must align with India given this > legitimacy, while living as subjects without rights in so far as the > state defines them as a threat to its sovereignty. India must violate > what gives it legitimacy in order to protect itself from the internal > enemy integral to it. India must destroy itself to protect itself. The > state of exception produces a state of autoimmunity. India is also > asserting itself as superior to other regional nation-states, and an > emerging player in relation to Western Europe and the United States. > Like other powerful democracies, India is entitled to do whatever is > necessary to fight terrorism and strengthen itself as a powerful, > sovereign, capitalist nation, aligned with the movement of progress > (dominance). > > > > > > Kashmiris are placed in a situation where allegiance to India as > prerequisite to participation in a lawful democracy involves > allegiance to a state that has no rational basis to demand or expect > allegiance from the people of Kashmir. India needs to exaggerate the > degree of cross-border infiltration and armed Islamist militancy to > rationalize 500,000+ troops, blurred boundaries between police and > army, and massive intervention in daily life through systematic > surveillance, land seizures, checkpoints, torture, disappearances, > gendered and sexualized violence, fake encounter deaths and countless > daily humiliations calculated to break the spirit of the Kashmiri > people. This reality is currently resisted through mass > demonstrations, regular protests, strategic use of elections, > strategic boycott of elections, navigating restrictions on ’free > press’, civil society mobilizations, legal cases, an International > Tribunal, and regular acts of dignity, courage, and faith that > characterize the present in Kashmir. India demonstrates the persona > all too common in the ’league of nations’ - to act with impunity and > disregard for international law and local demands for justice. India > uses this fiction of the Kashmiri as existing in the shadowy space of > inside/outside the nation to legitimate an occupation that ignores the > historical particularity of Kashmir and the promises made to the > people of Kashmir to determine its own future. The plight of Kashmiri > pundits also becomes an opportunity for the state to legitimate > regularized violence and systematic oppression of Kashmiris. Were all > Kashmiris, whether currently residing in the state of Jammu/Kashmir or > elsewhere, to be given voice to express their will, free from > coercion, retribution, and manipulation, the outcome would not be in > doubt. > > > > > > Kashmir is the longest standing disputed area in the United Nations, > the most militarized spot on earth, and a drain on the hopes for > prosperity, peace and freedom for people throughout the subcontinent, > and the world. There is no moving toward peaceful coexistence between > India and Pakistan, no stabilization of the region, no possibility for > global nuclear disarmament, no hope for forms of development that > prioritize sustainability and cultural survival over militarization, > urbanization, and middle-class consumerism, no space for the > impossible healing through mourning/memorializing the trauma of > Partition, without granting self-determination to the people of > Kashmir. > > > > > > The realization of that which is demanded by rationality in service of > justice and emancipation is always against the odds. In relation to > Kashmir, a more peaceful future requires at least four interrelated > movements: (1) Massive, non-violent, ethical dissent within Kashmiri > civil society must continue and expand, attentive to alliances that > build stronger relations between men and women, youth and adults, > various faith communities, urban and rural, rich and poor, > facilitative of inclusive forms of polity that enable a diverse, > pluralistic movement for freedom. (2) Leadership must form a unified > coalition that activates and learns from the multiple constituencies > that make up Kashmiri society. Divergent desires and imaginations > regarding the future of Kashmir should be encouraged and discussed, > outside the search for homogeneity or conformity. A Kashmir free of > subjugation should enable multiple forms of life through participatory > democracy, just governance, and economic practice promoting health, > education, and individual and collective prosperity. Natural > resources, like water, should be both safeguarded, and utilized for > sustainable development. Cultural heritage should be understood as an > inheritance of all Kashmiris to fashion a unique society nurturing > hospitality, innovation, and multicultural polity. (3) Education and > mobilization to shift public opinion in India must be undertaken > throughout civil society to expand pressure on the Indian state. > Citizen delegations from the various states and communities of India > must visit Kashmir to learn first hand about the atrocities, > resistances, hopes, and concerns prevalent in Kashmir. Such > delegations must bring their new understandings to their > neighborhoods, schools, workplaces, and places of worship to > facilitate discussion and reflection that expand the voices of those > who demand that illegal and immoral action in Kashmir done in their > name immediately cease. Institutions in India must sponsor delegations > from Kashmir, composed of diverse peoples who constitute Kashmiri > society, to share the realities they have suffered and the need for > alliance toward justice. Hindu faith communities must forge > relationships with social justice movements in civil society in > Kashmir to oppose Hindu majoritarian dominance and insist that the > Indian state demilitarize the state of Jammu & Kashmir, become > accountable to international agreements, rule of law, and human rights > as the first step on the road to affirming the right of Kashmir to > self-determination. Universities and the press must play a strong role > in addressing the history and present of Kashmir to empower students > and the citizenry of India to participate as informed members of a > democratic republic, whose resources and conscience are systematically > misused and violated by their government. (4) International > solidarities from citizens, governmental and non-governmental > organizations, students, workers, professionals, public intellectuals, > faith communities, and all interested parties must be organized to > educate, inform, advocate, and mobilize for the liberation of Kashmir. > International institutions must be both utilized and strengthened as > legitimate sites able to hold nation-states legally accountable for > their actions. Research, education, and publication on the reality of > present-day Kashmir and its modern history must be supported by and > within universities, think tanks, and civil society forums. Campuses > must become sites where students mobilize themselves to exert public > pressure to ethically resolve the situation in Kashmir. Resistance in > all four ’sites’ must struggle to establish alliances, clarify goals, > mobilize resources, deconstruct desires, and carve out space where > different forms of polity and community, promoting ethical dissent, > may live. > > > > > > To commit to these practices secures no guarantees. The process must > draw from the resolve of Kashmiris to struggle for justice and > strengthen this resolve through principled alliance that breaks the > isolation and despair that accompanies any people subjected to brutal > mistreatment. The multiple legacies that inspire and haunt us must > become the very sustenance that, through sharing, nurtures our > struggle. Allow me to conclude by drawing from a source common to the > three Abrahamic traditions, and of universal relevance in the present, > Deuteronomy 16:20, Justice, Justice, You Shall Pursue. > > > > > > (Richard Shapiro is Chair and Associate Professor, Department of > Social and Cultural Anthropology at the California Institute of > Integral Studies in San Francisco.) > > http://www.sacw.net/article1090.html > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ > Websites: http://shehjar.kashmirgroup.com >                 http://kashmirgroup.com >                 http://www.indocommunity.us > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "KashmirInterchange" group. > Disclaimer: Views and opinions expressed are only of the persons > posting the mail and not of the Owner/Moderator of Kashmir-Interchange > group and will not be responsible for the contents. > To post to this group, send email to Kashmir-Interchange at googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > Kashmir-Interchange-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/Kashmir-Interchange?hl=en > -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 8 19:49:28 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 07:19:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism and terrorism In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908062244m2728dach89a52c87927ce509@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <409473.85692.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Murali   I would hesitate to lecture Pakistan that they should learn from India on the dismantling of 'feudal structures'   Elsewhere I have opined that post-1947 "feudalism" has found ingress in various aspects of our lives in India and not stayed confined to "Agricultural Feudalism" or "Feudalism of the 'Elite' remanants of Monarchies and their liege".   In India, even "Agricultural or Rural Feudalism", continues to be a curse though admittedly it is more pronounced in some States than others. 'Bonded Labour' has not vanished, neither through insulation from 'Caste Domination', which continues, nor through protection from having to pledge Home, Hearth, Land and Self against Debts.   The exploitative structures reinforce themselves partly by calling on 'Tradition' and partly by relying on the 'Muscle' of both private squads and the Police and finding rthemselves glossed over for the sake of  "Political expediencies"   Education is a far cry, even basic literacy does not touch the lives of significant percentages of our children, even in towns and cities and certainly not in villages.   Let us please not lecture Pakistan about 'feudalism'.   In India we have at least had the semblances of Democracy (which makes our ineptness in tackling 'feudalism' all the more shocking) but in Pakistan they have struggled to even be allowed to flirt with Democracy.   Also, Pakistan has it's own unique problems of the "Feudalism" being entrenched in various forms that are different in each one of the 4 Provinces of NWFP, Balochistan, Sindh and Punjab and what makes it worse for Pakistan is that in each of the Provinces the 'political stabilty' hinges very precariously on the 'feudal' structures.    At best, if an Indian was to be very generous to India, one could say that maybe; maybe; we are slightly better off than Pakistan. But, such comparisons in inequities are meaningless.   As a digression (what found mention in a recent posting from Rakesh), what we need to learn from Pakistan is the quality of public discourse in the Mainstream Media in Pakistan. (my recognitions being confined to TV and English Print). Just as it took Bangladesh to jolt us into recognising the merits of Micro-Credit.   Kshmendra --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Murali V wrote: From: Murali V Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Feudalism and terrorism To: "asad abbasi" Cc: reader-list at sarai.net Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 11:14 AM Both Terrorism and Feudalism are dangerous weeds which will have to controlled. India also started as a nation with feudal lords generating bonded labors who had no access to education. INdia has come a long way since then and the feudal system has almost been cleared and as a result bonded labors. This has resulted in the rural population having access to primary and secondary education. There is still a long way to go as far as rural education is concerned, but steps have been continuously taken on this front atleast in the last 15 years to increase the education infrastructure in the rural areas. Pakistan had also became a nation at the same time, but the focus of Pakistan was constantly on India and to destabilise ,resulting in good funds being diverted to military buildup and promoting militant training camps to infiltrate into India. Pakistan could well understand the history of India since Indepenence and suitably modify its programs based on India's experience. More importantly, the education infrastructure should emphasise on non-Madrasa form of education system. Regards, V Murali On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:43 AM, asad abbasi wrote: > > Dear All, > > The discourse of feudalism is not only important forPakistan but perhaps > for South Asia. It requires different intellectuals from various backgrounds > to share their views and input their thoughts. > > It is important, i must say, because the stereotypical image of Pakistan is > of a terrorist nation. It is generally accepted that elimination of > terrorism from this country will not only benefit Pakistan but the whole > world. I, on the other hand, beg to differ. Because as i see it , the > stability of Pakistan is greatly affected by other factors including > feudalism as much as it depends on terrorism. > > A farmer in province of Sindh who works from dawn to dusk just so that he > and his family can survive. Also, that his children will have to be farmers > just like him, because the almighty land lord does not allow children to > study at the local school.(ie if there is a school at the first place) > > What will happen if Pakistan with all her resources try to eliminate > terrorism. But somewhere in this process neglects the issue of feudalism. As > there is no one to watch, feudal lords can only grow in confidence and may > start abusing the subjects (farmers in this )even more. > > Then Pakistan may have one of the following scenarios in 8-10 years. > > a) Pakistan has no terrorists and no terrorist activity > > b)Pakistan has insignificant amount of terrorist > > c)Pakistan wasted her resources and no damage was done to the hold of > terrorism. > > D) Mixture of any of the above situation. > > > > Moreover, because the resources were diverted of other issues such as > tackling feudalism, Pakistan may end up facing externalities for this > policy. And one side effect can be that, Pakistan will have a generation of >  uneducated, illiterate and deprived people. Some census say that Pakistan > has a literacy ratio of 49%( Even though, i along with so many people with > whom i have had the opportunity to discuss this issue, believe that this > number is clearly an exaggeration and the ratio can not be more that 36%) > and it is generally accepted that mostly these people live in urban areas. > If Feudalism prevails, then majority of 51% (or 64% as in the other case) > will not have the opportunity to educate themselves. Which, and no sane > person will argue, will bring any country to developmental halt. > > > > Terrorism is taking lives and destroying places, where as feudalism is > making lives worse and destroys the privilege of education. > > > > It, my friends, is a important issue and just like terrorism should be > taken seriously. > > > > Regards, > > Asad > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Celebrate a decade of Messenger with free winks, emoticons, display pics, > and more. > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 8 20:13:40 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 07:43:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on In-Reply-To: <5c5369880908080637v1f537673m7d0c14469f63ffcd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <455777.83423.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Sanjay   "Engaging" with rantings with prejudice and bias embedded in them is at most times foolish venturing.   That is a "by-the-way" comment. A phrase often used in Kashmir which Shapiro would not know about just as he knows little about Kashmir other than through regurgitated Anti-India propaganda. By-the-way.   As I told Junaid, I will elaborate on my "summary dismissal" when time allows me.   But I would like to understand from you too:   - Is it your position that Richard Shapiro has NOT made any 'sweeping generalisations' and 'misrepresentations'?   - Is it your position that Richard Shapiro's essay does NOT make evident any (Anti-India) 'prejudice and bias'?   As you would have read, Inder Salim has already drawn attention to some of the critical flaws and comments arising from engaging in half-truths by Shapiro in his essay.   Kshmendra   --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Sanjay Kak wrote: From: Sanjay Kak Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on To: "Kshmendra Kaul" Cc: "Sarai Reader List" Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 7:07 PM Apologies for the lack of clarity in my comment: I meant an engagement with the arguments made in the Richard Shapiro piece on Kashmir. And obviously an engagement which leaves out—for the moment—who his spouse may be, or what her thoughts on Kashmir are. Best Sanjay On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Sanjay > You suggest 'serious engagement'. > > With whom? > > Kshmendra > --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Sanjay Kak wrote: > > From: Sanjay Kak > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on > To: "Sarai Reader List" > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 8:45 PM > > Yes, I do agree with Junaid that Kshemendra Kaul should engage with > Richard Shapiro's arguments, rather than summarily dismiss them... > I just received a fwd about the Shapiro piece where Kshemendra's > dismissal has already become a venerable quotation for Aalok! > > Before it becomes graven in stone, we all look forward to a serious > engagement. > In the spirit of this Reader List, if nothing else! > Sanjay Kak > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > Date: Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 8:01 PM > Subject: -=Kashmir-Interchange=- Requesting KP intellect - Please > respond toRichard Shapiro > To: KPNetwork , > kashmir-interchange at googlegroups.com, kp-middleeast at yahoogroups.co.in > > > Without any doubt there is a Bank of Intellect that exists amongst > KPs, even though it might not be reflected in such habitual > 'Hate-Mongers' who while not contributing anything productive to this > world only do harm to the KPs and to India. > This request is for the KP Bank of Intellect and not the 'Hate-Mongers'. > > Reproduced below is a piece by Richard Shapiro "A Just Peace in > Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change" > > As can be seen after a read, the article (as someone described it): >        "...is replete with prejudice, bias, ill-concieved presumptions > and mis-constructed deductions. > The sweeping generalisations he makes and his misrepresentations > bordering on outright lies are only to be expected with his more than > evident prejudice and bias." > > Richard Shapiro is "Chair and Associate Professor, Department of > Social and Cultural Anthropology at the California Institute of > Integral Studies in San Francisco. (CIIS)" > > Shapiro is reported as being the spouse of Angana Chatterji who is > "Professor of Social and Cultural Anthropology at California Institute > of Integral Studies (CIIS)". > > Those who know about Angana Chatterji's  'work' will immediately > recognise not only the connections but also the commonality of > attitudes towards India  and Kashmir. > > The KP Bank of Intellect is requested to suitably and through > appropiate forums counter the 'case' being presented by Richard > Shapiro. > > Again, the "Hate-Mongers" are requested not to try and essay responses > to Shapiro because both their intellectual bankruptcy, ill-informed > and compartmentalised world-view and foolish attitudes will be > counter-productive. > > > ...... aalok aima > > > > South Asia Citizens Web > > > > "A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change" > > > > Tuesday, 4 August 2009 > > > > RICHARD SHAPIRO > > > > sacw.net > > > > > > What are the various roles that diverse constituencies must play to > facilitate political processes that undo militarization and > subjugation in Indian administered Kashmir? How can systemic > structures that institutionalize violence, cultural annihilation, > economic impoverishment, and political disempowerment be countered > through non-violent, ethical resistance? What alliances are necessary > to allow hope for overcoming cycles of oppression and breaking with > histories of domination? How can international, national, and local > actors and institutions work together to disrupt socially unnecessary > suffering and ameliorate the conditions of existence? What forces must > cohere to enable a just peace to emerge in a democratic Kashmir in the > foreseeable future? > > > > > > Numerous obstacles present tremendous challenges to movements for > social justice. The current world order is predicated on systems of > inequality that hierarchically divide countries, peoples, cultures, > classes, genders, sexualities, ethnicities, and faith traditions to > the benefit of the few and the detriment of the many. Dominant powers > prescribe the rules of the game to their advantage and utilize > knowledge, technology, and markets to structure social relations in > their interests. The new global order presents itself as the best of > all possible worlds in which sovereign nation-states organized through > representative democracy, rule of law, free markets with government > regulation, Enlightenment rationality, and human rights are promised > as the solution to the problems of poverty, war, ecological > devastation, genocide, and terrorism. > > > > > > This dominant narrative of progress through the spread of capitalism > organized in nation-states and guided by knowledge has attained > hegemony as it has captured the imagination of postcolonial nations > like India. Postcolonial nations have largely reproduced the > structures of colonial oppression and organized themselves to become > players in the existing global order as militarized, > hyper-masculinized, nuclear powers measuring their worth on the basis > of GDP (Gross Domestic Product). Emerging middle-classes of massive > proportion in postcolonial nations like India buttress this process of > nation building that mirrors and enforces dynamics of globalization > through the production of unparalleled poverty, massive and multiple > dislocations, genocide of indigenous peoples, ecological disaster, and > abundant psychological malaise. India is embraced by the international > community, meaning largely the United States and Western Europe, > precisely because it marches in step with the new world order. India > amasses great cultural capital as “the world’s largest democracy” in > spite of the fact that it is home to 40% of the worlds most > economically destitute, and seeks to constitute itself as a nation > through policies that disregard the needs of the vast majority of its > population. > > > > > > India is inventing nothing new in its self-constitution as a powerful > nation-state. National identity is being fabricated through the > equation of India with Hindus, in blatant form in entities like the > RSS and BJP, and in more subtle form in the Congress and progressive > Indian citizens for whom nationalism linked to ’Hindu cultural > reassertion’ is an unreflective response to a colonial past. The > equation of Hinduism (unity in diversity) and Christianity with > tolerance for difference, and Islam with terrorism, backwardness, and > fanaticism, functions as a global trope supportive of unleashing > disproportionate violence on Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, and > Palestine, as well as within the territory of India in Gujurat, > Orissa, and in the ’disputed territory’ of Kashmir. India forms itself > as nation with unexamined Hindu majoritarianism at its base, just as > unexamined Christian cultural dominance organizes the United States, > rendering explorations of the links between religionization, > nationalism and particular secularisms close to impossible. India is > also typical in its self-formation as nation in fashioning internal > and external enemies as crucial to defining itself, and > super-exploiting its most proximate ’others’ to fuel its prosperity. > European nations had the Jew as internal enemy. The United States is > founded on the backs of its twin others - enslaved Africans and > massacred Native Americans. > > > > > > India has as its main ’internal other’ the Muslim, who can take no > solace in also occupying the role as external enemy in India’s > dominant narrative. This double site is what the state uses to > legitimate the brutalization of the Kashmiri people. Firstly, there is > India’s need for a majority Muslim state within its borders to > legitimate itself as a progressive, pluralistic, secular nation. > Without a Muslim majority state within India, India cannot as easily > legitimate itself as a progressive member of the new global order. > Secondly there is India’s need to establish national identities that > take precedence over regional, local, traditional identities. As a > nation, India is in the process of seeking: (1) to establish > territorial dominion over the current boundaries of the nation, (2) > attain a monopoly on the means of violence, and (3) organize human and > natural resources to enhance the productivity and power of the nation. > Every nation that has achieved the normative status of modern > democracy has utilized sustained and prolific violence to realize > these three imperatives and in the process establish its identity. > India is in a very vulnerable moment in this process as is evident > from an examination of the myriad territories and forces fighting for > autonomy in some form from the Indian state. Part of the strategy to > foster national identity, simultaneous to providing very little to the > vast majority of its population, and in fact fostering mal-development > that impoverishes and displaces poor, rural ’citizens’, is to > fabricate an ’us’ that must protect itself from ’them’. Without > internal enemies India cannot unify itself as a nation. > > > > > > This internal enemy is also resolutely claimed as integral to India. > The state and its loyal subjects repeat the same refrain: ’Kashmir is > an integral part of India.’ ’Kashmir is integral to India.’ Kashmir is > the other that is integral to the self, a difference that is integral > to the identity of India. How then does India treat this other, this > integral difference? To debase, devalue, disrespect, destroy the > people, culture, history, land, waters, aspirations, imaginations, > passions, thoughts, of this other that is claimed as integral to self > reveals much about India’s current state of existence. What other > measure is available to us to assess ourselves as ethical entities > than how we treat the other, how we engage the differences to which we > are ethically obliged to respond? What nation has satisfactorily > answered to this call? If a day arrives when Kashmir is ’a nation unto > itself’, independent and sovereign, an equal to all other nations, > will Kashmir point the nation-state in a new direction? Will the > differences integral to Kashmir be respected, affirmed, heard and > engaged? Will ’the other’ be the call to ’the self’ to practice > hospitality? Will the Gujur, the village woman who buried loved ones > and waits in silence for words of/from other loved ones, the atheist, > the ardent believer, the Shia, the Sufi, the pundit, the Buddhist, the > differently abled, the homosexual, the beggar, the prostitute, be > welcomed as participants in constructing a nation that will be ’a > light unto other nations’? Will the other be welcomed without the > demand or structural incentive to assimilate, to mirror/mimic > dominance to be recognized as human? These questions are too much, > perhaps even unfair. Yet, is it not necessary to raise them? > > > > > > Kashmir occupies a literal and imaginary border as inside and outside > of India in ways that structure an impossible predicament. The state > (and its elites and middle-classes) does not trust Kashmiris whose > allegiance is always presumed to lie with Pakistan as an Islamic > Republic, thus denying Kashmiris the rights of citizens of India, > while asserting the inviolability of its sovereignty over Kashmir as a > secular, democratic nation governed by equality under rule of law. The > distrust legitimates military rule organized through special laws as > necessary to provide law and order as a matter of internal security. > Thus, on the basis of being part of a democratic state, the rights > granted citizens of such a state are denied to Kashmiris. Inclusion in > nation is coupled with dispossession from historical memory, rights, > and life. India legitimates its mistreatment through a logic > originating with European nation-states. This denial of civil and > human rights, rule of law, and the freedoms of citizenship to > Kashmiris is because the state must protect itself from forces within > itself that threaten its character as a lawful, democratic nation. > India must violate what is most inviolable, through a state of > exception (the use of law to suspend law as definitive of > sovereignty), to protect itself. The discourse requires the allegiance > of the Kashmiri people to India, as proof that Kashmiris are not what > the nation suspects - traitors and terrorists, as precondition to > access to the rights of citizenship. These same rights of citizenship > provided by the nation, while denied to Kashmiris, are used by India > to justify its claims to being a legitimate state entitled to act as > it does in Kashmir. As a legitimate state, India is predicated on > civil rights and rule of law that it may legitimately suspend in the > name of national security. Kashmiris must align with India given this > legitimacy, while living as subjects without rights in so far as the > state defines them as a threat to its sovereignty. India must violate > what gives it legitimacy in order to protect itself from the internal > enemy integral to it. India must destroy itself to protect itself. The > state of exception produces a state of autoimmunity. India is also > asserting itself as superior to other regional nation-states, and an > emerging player in relation to Western Europe and the United States. > Like other powerful democracies, India is entitled to do whatever is > necessary to fight terrorism and strengthen itself as a powerful, > sovereign, capitalist nation, aligned with the movement of progress > (dominance). > > > > > > Kashmiris are placed in a situation where allegiance to India as > prerequisite to participation in a lawful democracy involves > allegiance to a state that has no rational basis to demand or expect > allegiance from the people of Kashmir. India needs to exaggerate the > degree of cross-border infiltration and armed Islamist militancy to > rationalize 500,000+ troops, blurred boundaries between police and > army, and massive intervention in daily life through systematic > surveillance, land seizures, checkpoints, torture, disappearances, > gendered and sexualized violence, fake encounter deaths and countless > daily humiliations calculated to break the spirit of the Kashmiri > people. This reality is currently resisted through mass > demonstrations, regular protests, strategic use of elections, > strategic boycott of elections, navigating restrictions on ’free > press’, civil society mobilizations, legal cases, an International > Tribunal, and regular acts of dignity, courage, and faith that > characterize the present in Kashmir. India demonstrates the persona > all too common in the ’league of nations’ - to act with impunity and > disregard for international law and local demands for justice. India > uses this fiction of the Kashmiri as existing in the shadowy space of > inside/outside the nation to legitimate an occupation that ignores the > historical particularity of Kashmir and the promises made to the > people of Kashmir to determine its own future. The plight of Kashmiri > pundits also becomes an opportunity for the state to legitimate > regularized violence and systematic oppression of Kashmiris. Were all > Kashmiris, whether currently residing in the state of Jammu/Kashmir or > elsewhere, to be given voice to express their will, free from > coercion, retribution, and manipulation, the outcome would not be in > doubt. > > > > > > Kashmir is the longest standing disputed area in the United Nations, > the most militarized spot on earth, and a drain on the hopes for > prosperity, peace and freedom for people throughout the subcontinent, > and the world. There is no moving toward peaceful coexistence between > India and Pakistan, no stabilization of the region, no possibility for > global nuclear disarmament, no hope for forms of development that > prioritize sustainability and cultural survival over militarization, > urbanization, and middle-class consumerism, no space for the > impossible healing through mourning/memorializing the trauma of > Partition, without granting self-determination to the people of > Kashmir. > > > > > > The realization of that which is demanded by rationality in service of > justice and emancipation is always against the odds. In relation to > Kashmir, a more peaceful future requires at least four interrelated > movements: (1) Massive, non-violent, ethical dissent within Kashmiri > civil society must continue and expand, attentive to alliances that > build stronger relations between men and women, youth and adults, > various faith communities, urban and rural, rich and poor, > facilitative of inclusive forms of polity that enable a diverse, > pluralistic movement for freedom. (2) Leadership must form a unified > coalition that activates and learns from the multiple constituencies > that make up Kashmiri society. Divergent desires and imaginations > regarding the future of Kashmir should be encouraged and discussed, > outside the search for homogeneity or conformity. A Kashmir free of > subjugation should enable multiple forms of life through participatory > democracy, just governance, and economic practice promoting health, > education, and individual and collective prosperity. Natural > resources, like water, should be both safeguarded, and utilized for > sustainable development. Cultural heritage should be understood as an > inheritance of all Kashmiris to fashion a unique society nurturing > hospitality, innovation, and multicultural polity. (3) Education and > mobilization to shift public opinion in India must be undertaken > throughout civil society to expand pressure on the Indian state. > Citizen delegations from the various states and communities of India > must visit Kashmir to learn first hand about the atrocities, > resistances, hopes, and concerns prevalent in Kashmir. Such > delegations must bring their new understandings to their > neighborhoods, schools, workplaces, and places of worship to > facilitate discussion and reflection that expand the voices of those > who demand that illegal and immoral action in Kashmir done in their > name immediately cease. Institutions in India must sponsor delegations > from Kashmir, composed of diverse peoples who constitute Kashmiri > society, to share the realities they have suffered and the need for > alliance toward justice. Hindu faith communities must forge > relationships with social justice movements in civil society in > Kashmir to oppose Hindu majoritarian dominance and insist that the > Indian state demilitarize the state of Jammu & Kashmir, become > accountable to international agreements, rule of law, and human rights > as the first step on the road to affirming the right of Kashmir to > self-determination. Universities and the press must play a strong role > in addressing the history and present of Kashmir to empower students > and the citizenry of India to participate as informed members of a > democratic republic, whose resources and conscience are systematically > misused and violated by their government. (4) International > solidarities from citizens, governmental and non-governmental > organizations, students, workers, professionals, public intellectuals, > faith communities, and all interested parties must be organized to > educate, inform, advocate, and mobilize for the liberation of Kashmir. > International institutions must be both utilized and strengthened as > legitimate sites able to hold nation-states legally accountable for > their actions. Research, education, and publication on the reality of > present-day Kashmir and its modern history must be supported by and > within universities, think tanks, and civil society forums. Campuses > must become sites where students mobilize themselves to exert public > pressure to ethically resolve the situation in Kashmir. Resistance in > all four ’sites’ must struggle to establish alliances, clarify goals, > mobilize resources, deconstruct desires, and carve out space where > different forms of polity and community, promoting ethical dissent, > may live. > > > > > > To commit to these practices secures no guarantees. The process must > draw from the resolve of Kashmiris to struggle for justice and > strengthen this resolve through principled alliance that breaks the > isolation and despair that accompanies any people subjected to brutal > mistreatment. The multiple legacies that inspire and haunt us must > become the very sustenance that, through sharing, nurtures our > struggle. Allow me to conclude by drawing from a source common to the > three Abrahamic traditions, and of universal relevance in the present, > Deuteronomy 16:20, Justice, Justice, You Shall Pursue. > > > > > > (Richard Shapiro is Chair and Associate Professor, Department of > Social and Cultural Anthropology at the California Institute of > Integral Studies in San Francisco.) > > http://www.sacw.net/article1090.html > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ > Websites: http://shehjar.kashmirgroup.com >                 http://kashmirgroup.com >                 http://www.indocommunity.us > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "KashmirInterchange" group. > Disclaimer: Views and opinions expressed are only of the persons > posting the mail and not of the Owner/Moderator of Kashmir-Interchange > group and will not be responsible for the contents. > To post to this group, send email to Kashmir-Interchange at googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > Kashmir-Interchange-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/Kashmir-Interchange?hl=en > -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From kaksanjay at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 21:25:44 2009 From: kaksanjay at gmail.com (Sanjay Kak) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 21:25:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on In-Reply-To: <455777.83423.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <5c5369880908080637v1f537673m7d0c14469f63ffcd@mail.gmail.com> <455777.83423.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5c5369880908080855v4ca4348doaef117f41fede956@mail.gmail.com> Even by the standards of sophistry that the Sarai list is plagued by, these questions set a new bar. Kshemendra makes a series of summary statements in dismissing a text that appears on the list. He is politely asked to expand those summary dismissals in the general interest. He has promised to do so when time allows him. Fair enough. But in the interim, those who have asked for such helpful clarifications—and I am one of them—must react to the summary dismissals. That is the problem at hand, sir: we await a clarification of the charge, before we can agree or disagree with it! Indeed, sir, as Falstaff may have said, some clever punditry is afoot! Best Sanjay On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 8:13 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Sanjay > > "Engaging" with rantings with prejudice and bias embedded in them is at > most times foolish venturing. > > That is a "by-the-way" comment. A phrase often used in Kashmir which > Shapiro would not know about just as he knows little about Kashmir other > than through regurgitated Anti-India propaganda. By-the-way. > > As I told Junaid, I will elaborate on my "summary dismissal" when time > allows me. > > But I would like to understand from you too: > > - Is it your position that Richard Shapiro has NOT made any 'sweeping > generalisations' and 'misrepresentations'? > > - Is it your position that Richard Shapiro's essay does NOT make evident > any (Anti-India) 'prejudice and bias'? > > As you would have read, Inder Salim has already drawn attention to some of > the critical flaws and comments arising from engaging in half-truths > by Shapiro in his essay. > > Kshmendra > > > > --- On *Sat, 8/8/09, Sanjay Kak * wrote: > > > From: Sanjay Kak > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on > To: "Kshmendra Kaul" > Cc: "Sarai Reader List" > Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 7:07 PM > > > Apologies for the lack of clarity in my comment: > I meant an engagement with the arguments made in the Richard Shapiro > piece on Kashmir. > And obviously an engagement which leaves out—for the moment—who his > spouse may be, or what her thoughts on Kashmir are. > Best > Sanjay > > On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Kshmendra Kaul> > wrote: > > Dear Sanjay > > You suggest 'serious engagement'. > > > > With whom? > > > > Kshmendra > > --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Sanjay Kak > > wrote: > > > > From: Sanjay Kak > > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on > > To: "Sarai Reader List" > > > > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 8:45 PM > > > > Yes, I do agree with Junaid that Kshemendra Kaul should engage with > > Richard Shapiro's arguments, rather than summarily dismiss them... > > I just received a fwd about the Shapiro piece where Kshemendra's > > dismissal has already become a venerable quotation for Aalok! > > > > Before it becomes graven in stone, we all look forward to a serious > > engagement. > > In the spirit of this Reader List, if nothing else! > > Sanjay Kak > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > > Date: Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 8:01 PM > > Subject: -=Kashmir-Interchange=- Requesting KP intellect - Please > > respond toRichard Shapiro > > To: KPNetwork > >, > > kashmir-interchange at googlegroups.com, > kp-middleeast at yahoogroups.co.in > > > > > > Without any doubt there is a Bank of Intellect that exists amongst > > KPs, even though it might not be reflected in such habitual > > 'Hate-Mongers' who while not contributing anything productive to this > > world only do harm to the KPs and to India. > > This request is for the KP Bank of Intellect and not the 'Hate-Mongers'. > > > > Reproduced below is a piece by Richard Shapiro "A Just Peace in > > Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change" > > > > As can be seen after a read, the article (as someone described it): > > "...is replete with prejudice, bias, ill-concieved presumptions > > and mis-constructed deductions. > > The sweeping generalisations he makes and his misrepresentations > > bordering on outright lies are only to be expected with his more than > > evident prejudice and bias." > > > > Richard Shapiro is "Chair and Associate Professor, Department of > > Social and Cultural Anthropology at the California Institute of > > Integral Studies in San Francisco. (CIIS)" > > > > Shapiro is reported as being the spouse of Angana Chatterji who is > > "Professor of Social and Cultural Anthropology at California Institute > > of Integral Studies (CIIS)". > > > > Those who know about Angana Chatterji's 'work' will immediately > > recognise not only the connections but also the commonality of > > attitudes towards India and Kashmir. > > > > The KP Bank of Intellect is requested to suitably and through > > appropiate forums counter the 'case' being presented by Richard > > Shapiro. > > > > Again, the "Hate-Mongers" are requested not to try and essay responses > > to Shapiro because both their intellectual bankruptcy, ill-informed > > and compartmentalised world-view and foolish attitudes will be > > counter-productive. > > > > > > ...... aalok aima > > > > > > > > South Asia Citizens Web > > > > > > > > "A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change" > > > > > > > > Tuesday, 4 August 2009 > > > > > > > > RICHARD SHAPIRO > > > > > > > > sacw.net > > > > > > > > > > > > What are the various roles that diverse constituencies must play to > > facilitate political processes that undo militarization and > > subjugation in Indian administered Kashmir? How can systemic > > structures that institutionalize violence, cultural annihilation, > > economic impoverishment, and political disempowerment be countered > > through non-violent, ethical resistance? What alliances are necessary > > to allow hope for overcoming cycles of oppression and breaking with > > histories of domination? How can international, national, and local > > actors and institutions work together to disrupt socially unnecessary > > suffering and ameliorate the conditions of existence? What forces must > > cohere to enable a just peace to emerge in a democratic Kashmir in the > > foreseeable future? > > > > > > > > > > > > Numerous obstacles present tremendous challenges to movements for > > social justice. The current world order is predicated on systems of > > inequality that hierarchically divide countries, peoples, cultures, > > classes, genders, sexualities, ethnicities, and faith traditions to > > the benefit of the few and the detriment of the many. Dominant powers > > prescribe the rules of the game to their advantage and utilize > > knowledge, technology, and markets to structure social relations in > > their interests. The new global order presents itself as the best of > > all possible worlds in which sovereign nation-states organized through > > representative democracy, rule of law, free markets with government > > regulation, Enlightenment rationality, and human rights are promised > > as the solution to the problems of poverty, war, ecological > > devastation, genocide, and terrorism. > > > > > > > > > > > > This dominant narrative of progress through the spread of capitalism > > organized in nation-states and guided by knowledge has attained > > hegemony as it has captured the imagination of postcolonial nations > > like India. Postcolonial nations have largely reproduced the > > structures of colonial oppression and organized themselves to become > > players in the existing global order as militarized, > > hyper-masculinized, nuclear powers measuring their worth on the basis > > of GDP (Gross Domestic Product). Emerging middle-classes of massive > > proportion in postcolonial nations like India buttress this process of > > nation building that mirrors and enforces dynamics of globalization > > through the production of unparalleled poverty, massive and multiple > > dislocations, genocide of indigenous peoples, ecological disaster, and > > abundant psychological malaise. India is embraced by the international > > community, meaning largely the United States and Western Europe, > > precisely because it marches in step with the new world order. India > > amasses great cultural capital as “the world’s largest democracy” in > > spite of the fact that it is home to 40% of the worlds most > > economically destitute, and seeks to constitute itself as a nation > > through policies that disregard the needs of the vast majority of its > > population. > > > > > > > > > > > > India is inventing nothing new in its self-constitution as a powerful > > nation-state. National identity is being fabricated through the > > equation of India with Hindus, in blatant form in entities like the > > RSS and BJP, and in more subtle form in the Congress and progressive > > Indian citizens for whom nationalism linked to ’Hindu cultural > > reassertion’ is an unreflective response to a colonial past. The > > equation of Hinduism (unity in diversity) and Christianity with > > tolerance for difference, and Islam with terrorism, backwardness, and > > fanaticism, functions as a global trope supportive of unleashing > > disproportionate violence on Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, and > > Palestine, as well as within the territory of India in Gujurat, > > Orissa, and in the ’disputed territory’ of Kashmir. India forms itself > > as nation with unexamined Hindu majoritarianism at its base, just as > > unexamined Christian cultural dominance organizes the United States, > > rendering explorations of the links between religionization, > > nationalism and particular secularisms close to impossible. India is > > also typical in its self-formation as nation in fashioning internal > > and external enemies as crucial to defining itself, and > > super-exploiting its most proximate ’others’ to fuel its prosperity. > > European nations had the Jew as internal enemy. The United States is > > founded on the backs of its twin others - enslaved Africans and > > massacred Native Americans. > > > > > > > > > > > > India has as its main ’internal other’ the Muslim, who can take no > > solace in also occupying the role as external enemy in India’s > > dominant narrative. This double site is what the state uses to > > legitimate the brutalization of the Kashmiri people. Firstly, there is > > India’s need for a majority Muslim state within its borders to > > legitimate itself as a progressive, pluralistic, secular nation. > > Without a Muslim majority state within India, India cannot as easily > > legitimate itself as a progressive member of the new global order. > > Secondly there is India’s need to establish national identities that > > take precedence over regional, local, traditional identities. As a > > nation, India is in the process of seeking: (1) to establish > > territorial dominion over the current boundaries of the nation, (2) > > attain a monopoly on the means of violence, and (3) organize human and > > natural resources to enhance the productivity and power of the nation. > > Every nation that has achieved the normative status of modern > > democracy has utilized sustained and prolific violence to realize > > these three imperatives and in the process establish its identity. > > India is in a very vulnerable moment in this process as is evident > > from an examination of the myriad territories and forces fighting for > > autonomy in some form from the Indian state. Part of the strategy to > > foster national identity, simultaneous to providing very little to the > > vast majority of its population, and in fact fostering mal-development > > that impoverishes and displaces poor, rural ’citizens’, is to > > fabricate an ’us’ that must protect itself from ’them’. Without > > internal enemies India cannot unify itself as a nation. > > > > > > > > > > > > This internal enemy is also resolutely claimed as integral to India. > > The state and its loyal subjects repeat the same refrain: ’Kashmir is > > an integral part of India.’ ’Kashmir is integral to India.’ Kashmir is > > the other that is integral to the self, a difference that is integral > > to the identity of India. How then does India treat this other, this > > integral difference? To debase, devalue, disrespect, destroy the > > people, culture, history, land, waters, aspirations, imaginations, > > passions, thoughts, of this other that is claimed as integral to self > > reveals much about India’s current state of existence. What other > > measure is available to us to assess ourselves as ethical entities > > than how we treat the other, how we engage the differences to which we > > are ethically obliged to respond? What nation has satisfactorily > > answered to this call? If a day arrives when Kashmir is ’a nation unto > > itself’, independent and sovereign, an equal to all other nations, > > will Kashmir point the nation-state in a new direction? Will the > > differences integral to Kashmir be respected, affirmed, heard and > > engaged? Will ’the other’ be the call to ’the self’ to practice > > hospitality? Will the Gujur, the village woman who buried loved ones > > and waits in silence for words of/from other loved ones, the atheist, > > the ardent believer, the Shia, the Sufi, the pundit, the Buddhist, the > > differently abled, the homosexual, the beggar, the prostitute, be > > welcomed as participants in constructing a nation that will be ’a > > light unto other nations’? Will the other be welcomed without the > > demand or structural incentive to assimilate, to mirror/mimic > > dominance to be recognized as human? These questions are too much, > > perhaps even unfair. Yet, is it not necessary to raise them? > > > > > > > > > > > > Kashmir occupies a literal and imaginary border as inside and outside > > of India in ways that structure an impossible predicament. The state > > (and its elites and middle-classes) does not trust Kashmiris whose > > allegiance is always presumed to lie with Pakistan as an Islamic > > Republic, thus denying Kashmiris the rights of citizens of India, > > while asserting the inviolability of its sovereignty over Kashmir as a > > secular, democratic nation governed by equality under rule of law. The > > distrust legitimates military rule organized through special laws as > > necessary to provide law and order as a matter of internal security. > > Thus, on the basis of being part of a democratic state, the rights > > granted citizens of such a state are denied to Kashmiris. Inclusion in > > nation is coupled with dispossession from historical memory, rights, > > and life. India legitimates its mistreatment through a logic > > originating with European nation-states. This denial of civil and > > human rights, rule of law, and the freedoms of citizenship to > > Kashmiris is because the state must protect itself from forces within > > itself that threaten its character as a lawful, democratic nation. > > India must violate what is most inviolable, through a state of > > exception (the use of law to suspend law as definitive of > > sovereignty), to protect itself. The discourse requires the allegiance > > of the Kashmiri people to India, as proof that Kashmiris are not what > > the nation suspects - traitors and terrorists, as precondition to > > access to the rights of citizenship. These same rights of citizenship > > provided by the nation, while denied to Kashmiris, are used by India > > to justify its claims to being a legitimate state entitled to act as > > it does in Kashmir. As a legitimate state, India is predicated on > > civil rights and rule of law that it may legitimately suspend in the > > name of national security. Kashmiris must align with India given this > > legitimacy, while living as subjects without rights in so far as the > > state defines them as a threat to its sovereignty. India must violate > > what gives it legitimacy in order to protect itself from the internal > > enemy integral to it. India must destroy itself to protect itself. The > > state of exception produces a state of autoimmunity. India is also > > asserting itself as superior to other regional nation-states, and an > > emerging player in relation to Western Europe and the United States. > > Like other powerful democracies, India is entitled to do whatever is > > necessary to fight terrorism and strengthen itself as a powerful, > > sovereign, capitalist nation, aligned with the movement of progress > > (dominance). > > > > > > > > > > > > Kashmiris are placed in a situation where allegiance to India as > > prerequisite to participation in a lawful democracy involves > > allegiance to a state that has no rational basis to demand or expect > > allegiance from the people of Kashmir. India needs to exaggerate the > > degree of cross-border infiltration and armed Islamist militancy to > > rationalize 500,000+ troops, blurred boundaries between police and > > army, and massive intervention in daily life through systematic > > surveillance, land seizures, checkpoints, torture, disappearances, > > gendered and sexualized violence, fake encounter deaths and countless > > daily humiliations calculated to break the spirit of the Kashmiri > > people. This reality is currently resisted through mass > > demonstrations, regular protests, strategic use of elections, > > strategic boycott of elections, navigating restrictions on ’free > > press’, civil society mobilizations, legal cases, an International > > Tribunal, and regular acts of dignity, courage, and faith that > > characterize the present in Kashmir. India demonstrates the persona > > all too common in the ’league of nations’ - to act with impunity and > > disregard for international law and local demands for justice. India > > uses this fiction of the Kashmiri as existing in the shadowy space of > > inside/outside the nation to legitimate an occupation that ignores the > > historical particularity of Kashmir and the promises made to the > > people of Kashmir to determine its own future. The plight of Kashmiri > > pundits also becomes an opportunity for the state to legitimate > > regularized violence and systematic oppression of Kashmiris. Were all > > Kashmiris, whether currently residing in the state of Jammu/Kashmir or > > elsewhere, to be given voice to express their will, free from > > coercion, retribution, and manipulation, the outcome would not be in > > doubt. > > > > > > > > > > > > Kashmir is the longest standing disputed area in the United Nations, > > the most militarized spot on earth, and a drain on the hopes for > > prosperity, peace and freedom for people throughout the subcontinent, > > and the world. There is no moving toward peaceful coexistence between > > India and Pakistan, no stabilization of the region, no possibility for > > global nuclear disarmament, no hope for forms of development that > > prioritize sustainability and cultural survival over militarization, > > urbanization, and middle-class consumerism, no space for the > > impossible healing through mourning/memorializing the trauma of > > Partition, without granting self-determination to the people of > > Kashmir. > > > > > > > > > > > > The realization of that which is demanded by rationality in service of > > justice and emancipation is always against the odds. In relation to > > Kashmir, a more peaceful future requires at least four interrelated > > movements: (1) Massive, non-violent, ethical dissent within Kashmiri > > civil society must continue and expand, attentive to alliances that > > build stronger relations between men and women, youth and adults, > > various faith communities, urban and rural, rich and poor, > > facilitative of inclusive forms of polity that enable a diverse, > > pluralistic movement for freedom. (2) Leadership must form a unified > > coalition that activates and learns from the multiple constituencies > > that make up Kashmiri society. Divergent desires and imaginations > > regarding the future of Kashmir should be encouraged and discussed, > > outside the search for homogeneity or conformity. A Kashmir free of > > subjugation should enable multiple forms of life through participatory > > democracy, just governance, and economic practice promoting health, > > education, and individual and collective prosperity. Natural > > resources, like water, should be both safeguarded, and utilized for > > sustainable development. Cultural heritage should be understood as an > > inheritance of all Kashmiris to fashion a unique society nurturing > > hospitality, innovation, and multicultural polity. (3) Education and > > mobilization to shift public opinion in India must be undertaken > > throughout civil society to expand pressure on the Indian state. > > Citizen delegations from the various states and communities of India > > must visit Kashmir to learn first hand about the atrocities, > > resistances, hopes, and concerns prevalent in Kashmir. Such > > delegations must bring their new understandings to their > > neighborhoods, schools, workplaces, and places of worship to > > facilitate discussion and reflection that expand the voices of those > > who demand that illegal and immoral action in Kashmir done in their > > name immediately cease. Institutions in India must sponsor delegations > > from Kashmir, composed of diverse peoples who constitute Kashmiri > > society, to share the realities they have suffered and the need for > > alliance toward justice. Hindu faith communities must forge > > relationships with social justice movements in civil society in > > Kashmir to oppose Hindu majoritarian dominance and insist that the > > Indian state demilitarize the state of Jammu & Kashmir, become > > accountable to international agreements, rule of law, and human rights > > as the first step on the road to affirming the right of Kashmir to > > self-determination. Universities and the press must play a strong role > > in addressing the history and present of Kashmir to empower students > > and the citizenry of India to participate as informed members of a > > democratic republic, whose resources and conscience are systematically > > misused and violated by their government. (4) International > > solidarities from citizens, governmental and non-governmental > > organizations, students, workers, professionals, public intellectuals, > > faith communities, and all interested parties must be organized to > > educate, inform, advocate, and mobilize for the liberation of Kashmir. > > International institutions must be both utilized and strengthened as > > legitimate sites able to hold nation-states legally accountable for > > their actions. Research, education, and publication on the reality of > > present-day Kashmir and its modern history must be supported by and > > within universities, think tanks, and civil society forums. Campuses > > must become sites where students mobilize themselves to exert public > > pressure to ethically resolve the situation in Kashmir. Resistance in > > all four ’sites’ must struggle to establish alliances, clarify goals, > > mobilize resources, deconstruct desires, and carve out space where > > different forms of polity and community, promoting ethical dissent, > > may live. > > > > > > > > > > > > To commit to these practices secures no guarantees. The process must > > draw from the resolve of Kashmiris to struggle for justice and > > strengthen this resolve through principled alliance that breaks the > > isolation and despair that accompanies any people subjected to brutal > > mistreatment. The multiple legacies that inspire and haunt us must > > become the very sustenance that, through sharing, nurtures our > > struggle. Allow me to conclude by drawing from a source common to the > > three Abrahamic traditions, and of universal relevance in the present, > > Deuteronomy 16:20, Justice, Justice, You Shall Pursue. > > > > > > > > > > > > (Richard Shapiro is Chair and Associate Professor, Department of > > Social and Cultural Anthropology at the California Institute of > > Integral Studies in San Francisco.) > > > > http://www.sacw.net/article1090.html > > > > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ > > Websites: http://shehjar.kashmirgroup.com > > http://kashmirgroup.com > > http://www.indocommunity.us > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "KashmirInterchange" group. > > Disclaimer: Views and opinions expressed are only of the persons > > posting the mail and not of the Owner/Moderator of Kashmir-Interchange > > group and will not be responsible for the contents. > > To post to this group, send email to > Kashmir-Interchange at googlegroups.com > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > Kashmir-Interchange-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/Kashmir-Interchange?hl=en > > -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Aug 8 21:42:16 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 17:12:16 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] UID (and privatising social WELFARE) some IMPLICATIONS COULD BE !!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <86b8a7050908080626h45e57206q2d652c5dd507e31a@mail.gmail.com> References: <86b8a7050908080626h45e57206q2d652c5dd507e31a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40908080912s6dad15c3p2d4fbfb007174ca6@mail.gmail.com> Dear Vinay, Thank you for posting this. But do you think that Indiana is perhaps symptomatic of a wider transfer of responsibilities to the private sector from the govt? That people in many parts of the world still like to entertain an impression that private sector is the ultimate harbinger of -efficiency-, is as much a mystery to me as to think why then there is so much of faith and trust in governments? With Nilekani at the helm of affairs here, we can perhaps see, that private sector will be involved in a disciplined manner, by that I mean, there could be a systematic process of selection and therefore a possibility of a deeper involvement of private players in the business of the government. But I wonder, will these so called private vendors be not subjected to caste, regional, lingual, religious pressures in UIDAI? Warm regards Taha From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 9 00:05:06 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 11:35:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change By Richard Shapiro In-Reply-To: <47e122a70908080509n40884f0el4c4a4a6a6ec59b5d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <998134.50656.qm@web39101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Mr Salim, Since we are keeping some other places also under guns and those people also don't have two square meals for their families,what do you suggest should be done there.IN India two brothers can't co-exist and you are talking for an open society, where all kinds of people can coexist. There is never any harm in dreaming of an ideal situation. (Sorry, I have read only a small part and had not been interested in the Kashmir chain) Regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Inder Salim wrote: > From: Inder Salim > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change By Richard Shapiro > To: "reader-list" > Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 5:39 PM > Dear Kshmendra > > thanks > > Between Kashmir and Kashmir what is this term LOC.  > Why India and > Pakistan are official about it, and if they are,  why > the average > Indians are hesitant to utter it.  And how are > Kashmiris on both side > not free to talk about the meaning of this term. with LoC , > the terms > like IAK and PAK become automatic in discussions which > yearn to talk > freely a bit. > > Please tell me, why India had to occupy Kashmir in 1947. > They should > have been left alone. Sheikh was all against merger of > Kashmir with > Pakistan which was stragecially in the interest of > India.   But india > was content wth some Bakshis and Sadiqs who were interested > in money > and muscle power. And how to celebrate the sheikh Indira > accord when > not a single kashmiri supported it. > > > Now, of course, things are markedly different, but where is > need to be > loud about Nationalism. Imagine how much we spend on > Siachen and other > weaponery to maintain the boarders with Pakistan. It is a > shame that > when millions in India are suffering for want of food and > other basic > facilities we have billions  for buying arms. for > what, and what is > the gain ? > > Pakistan is not in a position to annex (our) part of > Kashmir, but is > ready for an independat kashmir, which should be worked > out, through > negotiations. > > It is not a secret that Kashmiris have never accepted > Indian flag in > Kashmir. Let us be realistic, I am Indian as much as you > are, and  I > am unikely to live in a kashmir which is run be intolerant > fundamentalits, if islamists take over a free kashmir. But > let them > be, why to listen each and every day about the security > excess and all > that, which i beleive is totally unncessary. > > India should consolidate what they have posibitvely with > them.  I know > lot of lies have gone into the making of Kashmir issue, but > history is > like that, We need to get rid of our sentimental attachment > with > Kashmir. Our liasons with a territory based past is > vanishable, our > past based on profound understandings of the other is > lasting. > > Beleive me, if i was a kashmiri muslim, i would have > criticized each > and every violent move that supports azadi, but that does > not mean the > issue is irrelavant.   I am for an open > society, where all kinds of > people can coexisit, yes, the ground reality is that > Kashmiris are not > so condusive to guarantee an idealistic state ( as Richad > demanded in > his article )  for all the shades of people to live > harmonously, but > let us accept the facts, and leave them to their own fate. > At some > point of time, we have to cease to become teachers. > > let us see, how much free and less prejudiced we are > towards the other > in Delhi and elsewhere. > > There is a mountain of mess we are stuck in. The > frightening items in > list are many . Holding kashmir at gun point and declaring > mera bharat > mahan hai is something which a poor average Indian fails to > understand > if there are no two square meals for his family in the > evening. > > > with love > is > > > > > On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: > > Dear Inder > > > > A citizen of India (which I presume you are) using the > phrase "Indian > > occupation of Kashmir"; Interesting. Doubly > interesting since you use the > > phrase  "Pakistan Administered Kashmir" for that part > of J&K which is under > > Pakistan's control. > > > > That is just a reiteration of my often stated > "Nationalist" position. > > > > That said, may I thank you for pointing out some of > the critical flaws and > > half-truths in Richard Shapiro's essay. > > > > Kshmendra > > > > --- On Thu, 8/6/09, Inder Salim > wrote: > > > > From: Inder Salim > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? > Reflections on Dynamics > > of Change By Richard Shapiro > > To: "reader-list" > > Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 2:34 PM > > > > Thanks Dear Khurram for forward, wonderful essay. > > > > I quote from the article. > > > > “Will the differences integral to Kashmir be > respected, affirmed, > > heard and engaged? Will 'the other' be the call to > 'the self' to > > practice hospitality? Will the > > Gujur, the village woman who buried loved ones and > waits in silence for > > words of/from other loved ones, the atheist, the > ardent believer, the > > Shia, the Sufi, the pundit, the Buddhist, the > differently abled, the > > homosexual, the beggar, the prostitute, be welcomed as > participants in > > constructing a nation that will be 'a light unto other > nations'” > > > > It reminds me of the article written by Arundhati Roy > some time back, > > which created a huge storm in Delhi and around, but > not because of the > > above questions which she too raised, but by saying > ‘Kashmir needs > > freedom as much as India needs from Kashmir’. > > > > So we have two points, one for the Indian > Administration in Kashmir , > > one for those who want freedom in Kashmir.  Both the > parties somehow > > escape the critical part of it.   The article has > not asked a single > > question to Pakistan Administered Kashmir.  Kashmiris > need to ask > > questions to all. > > > > The article has exonerated the entire diplomatic > legacy of > > Anglo-American policies which cleverly divided  > Kashmir in 1947 and > > continued to support that divided legacy, which > ensures their sale of > > Arms in this subcontinent. It is not  difficult to > guess how much of > > both Indian and Pakistani budget contributes in > maintaining their > > defence industry. So why on earth they will let the > Kashmir issue be > > resolved. Needless to mention about what they did in > Iraq , > > Afghanistan or elsewhere in the past. It is a large > mess. Blaming > > India alone will be a short cut to the problem. > > > > So how to read the incomplete essay which is > nevertheless seriously > > written and deserves a debate. > > > > We all know how WITH DISSENT COMES RESPONSIBILTY, and > if in the > > present we are searching  a non-violent solution to > the pending issues > > based on Ethics then we need to create a situation > which gives no > > excuse to the Indian Army to be there. Let there be no > violence, not > > even a six inch pebble throwing catapult. Let there be > creative ways > > to make the Indian presence irrelevant. One of them > is, don’t use the > > Indian goods, as Gandhi did to British. But it is not > easy, there must > > be other  effective ways too, if there is a will. > > > > So, again there are two methodologies which are > working in Kashmir. > > One is Armed Struggle and the other is non-violent > strategy. We have > > no mechanism to talk about the armed part of it, > because either we > > approve that methodology or demand its abandonment.  > The blind support > > to Armed Struggle would automatically tantamount to > ‘ bad faith’. Yes, > > they wont listen to us, because there are mechanisms > which legitimizes > > the others ( American ) intervention simply because > there is > > violence/war on the ground. And Americans like > Violence, which suits > > both Indian and Pakistani position on Kashmir. We are > certainly > > waiting for a simple Sufi Kashmiri version of freedom > based on ethics > > and tolerance for the other. Where is cultural > expressioin of freedom, > > why it is inferior to a gun shot. > > > > If we were wise enough in the first place to resolve > the issue at our > > own then we ( Indian and Pakistani) should gift > > The entire nuclear  weaponry to USA. It is because we > are unwise that > > we approve violence that gives shape to a politics, > and we ( writing > > and reflecting the written ) become end users of their > actions. We > > need to support a change that renders the Violence > impotent. > > > > Mr. Richard also writes about ‘Cultural > Annihilation’ ( of Kashmiris > > by Indians ) . To club cultural annihilation with > Indian Security > > excesses is again slippery and contrived.  Kashmiris > themselves are > > indifferent to their cultural moorings. But there is a > reason for > > that, which is again because of Indian position with > regard to > > Kashmir. > > > > No one can deny that Kashmiri Pandits and Muslims have > a shared past > > in Kashmir but since Kashmiri Pandits are Hindus too, > who happen to be > > Indians too, and therefore, supporters of Indian > policy on Kashmir. > > So, unfortunately, Kashmiri Muslims had to chisel out > any similarity > > that make them resemble Indians. Here, again, we can > blame Indian > > occupation of Kashmir, but at some point of time, > Kashmiris need to > > protect their heritage, culture and language. No > excuses, whatsoever. > > > > Recently, I happened to visit amazing ruins of > Parihaspur of great > > Lalitaditya of 700 AD. Wahabi radical sect of Islam > disapproves > > presence of such ruins around the place they live. The > fear of > > contamination in fatih leads them to motivate the > young to deface the > > figures in any ruins they discover , which is ‘ > swaab’ ( work in the > > name of god ). > > > > Language: I saw many younger generation Kashmiris > speaking Urdu ( > > kashmiri-urdu) to each other even in normal > conversation. One of the > > students said frankly that only Villagers speak now > Kashmiri. The > > modern fast changing life style is the other main > reason for  Cultural > > Annihilation which the intellectuals of Kashmir should > take note of, > > if there is a need for a free and independent Kashmir. > Or, if the > > modern ways of living approve every change we > experience then to talk > > about ETHICS engages the entire changing global > scenario on the earth. > > Then again, we may include ENVIRONMENT to ethics as > well. > > > > With love > > is > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Khurram Parvez > > wrote: > >> > >> > >> A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics > of Change > >> > >> By Richard Shapiro > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> August 04, 2009 > >> > >> http://www.sacw.net/article1090.html > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> What > >> are the various roles that diverse constituencies > must play to > >> facilitate political processes that undo > militarization and subjugation > >> in Indian administered Kashmir? How can systemic > structures that > >> institutionalize violence, cultural annihilation, > economic > >> impoverishment, and political disempowerment be > countered through > >> non-violent, ethical resistance? What alliances > are necessary to allow > >> hope for overcoming cycles of oppression and > breaking with histories of > >> domination? How can international, national, and > local actors and > >> institutions work together to disrupt socially > unnecessary suffering > >> and ameliorate the conditions of existence? What > forces must cohere to > >> enable a just peace to emerge in a democratic > Kashmir in the > >> foreseeable future? > >> > >> > >> > >> Numerous obstacles present tremendous > >> challenges to movements for social justice. The > current world order is > >> predicated on systems of inequality that > hierarchically divide > >> countries, peoples, cultures, classes, genders, > sexualities, > >> ethnicities, and faith traditions to the benefit > of the few and the > >> detriment of the many. Dominant powers prescribe > the rules of the game > >> to their advantage and utilize knowledge, > technology, and markets to > >> structure social relations in their interests. The > new global order > >> presents itself as the best of all possible worlds > in which sovereign > >> nation-states organized through representative > democracy, rule of law, > >> free markets with government regulation, > Enlightenment rationality, and > >> human rights are promised as the solution to the > problems of poverty, > >> war, ecological devastation, genocide, and > terrorism. > >> > >> > >> > >> This > >> dominant narrative of progress through the spread > of capitalism > >> organized in nation-states and guided by knowledge > has attained > >> hegemony as it has captured the imagination of > postcolonial nations > >> like India. Postcolonial nations have largely > reproduced the structures > >> of colonial oppression and organized themselves to > become players in > >> the existing global order as militarized, > hyper-masculinized, nuclear > >> powers measuring their worth on the basis of GDP > (Gross Domestic > >> Product). Emerging middle-classes of massive > proportion in postcolonial > >> nations like India buttress this process of nation > building that > >> mirrors and enforces dynamics of globalization > through the production > >> of unparalleled poverty, massive and multiple > dislocations, genocide of > >> indigenous peoples, ecological disaster, and > abundant psychological > >> malaise. India is embraced by the international > community, meaning > >> largely the United States and Western Europe, > precisely because it > >> marches in step with the new world order. India > amasses great cultural > >> capital as “the world's largest democracy” in > spite of the fact that it > >> is home to 40% of the worlds most economically > destitute, and seeks to > >> constitute itself as a nation through policies > that disregard the needs > >> of the vast majority of its population. > >> > >> > >> > >> India is inventing > >> nothing new in its self-constitution as a powerful > nation-state. > >> National identity is being fabricated through the > equation of India > >> with Hindus, in blatant form in entities like the > RSS and BJP, and in > >> more subtle form in the Congress and progressive > Indian citizens for > >> whom nationalism linked to 'Hindu cultural > reassertion' is an > >> unreflective response to a colonial past. The > equation of Hinduism > >> (unity in diversity) and Christianity with > tolerance for difference, > >> and Islam with terrorism, backwardness, and > fanaticism, functions as a > >> global trope supportive of unleashing > disproportionate violence on > >> Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Palestine, as > well as within the > >> territory of India in Gujurat, Orissa, and in the > 'disputed territory' > >> of Kashmir. India forms itself as nation with > unexamined Hindu > >> majoritarianism at its base, just as unexamined > Christian cultural > >> dominance organizes the United States, rendering > explorations of the > >> links between religionization, nationalism and > particular secularisms > >> close to impossible. India is also typical in its > self-formation as > >> nation in fashioning internal and external enemies > as crucial to > >> defining itself, and super-exploiting its most > proximate 'others' to > >> fuel its prosperity. European nations had the Jew > as internal enemy. > >> The United States is founded on the backs of its > twin others - enslaved > >> Africans and massacred Native Americans. > >> > >> > >> > >> India has as its main > >> 'internal other' the Muslim, who can take no > solace in also occupying > >> the role as external enemy in India's dominant > narrative. This double > >> site is what the state uses to legitimate the > brutalization of the > >> Kashmiri people. Firstly, there is India's need > for a majority Muslim > >> state within its borders to legitimate itself as a > progressive, > >> pluralistic, secular nation. Without a Muslim > majority state within > >> India, India cannot as easily legitimate itself as > a progressive member > >> of the new global order. Secondly there is India's > need to establish > >> national identities that take precedence over > regional, local, > >> traditional identities. As a nation, India is in > the process of > >> seeking: (1) to establish territorial dominion > over the current > >> boundaries of the nation, (2) attain a monopoly on > the means of > >> violence, and (3) organize human and natural > resources to enhance the > >> productivity and power of the nation. Every nation > that has achieved > >> the normative status of modern democracy has > utilized sustained and > >> prolific violence to realize these three > imperatives and in the process > >> establish its identity. India is in a very > vulnerable moment in this > >> process as is evident from an examination of the > myriad territories and > >> forces fighting for autonomy in some form from the > Indian state. Part > >> of the strategy to foster national identity, > simultaneous to providing > >> very little to the vast majority of its > population, and in fact > >> fostering mal-development that impoverishes and > displaces poor, rural > >> 'citizens', is to fabricate an 'us' that must > protect itself from > >> 'them'. Without internal enemies India cannot > unify itself as a nation. > >> > >> > >> > >> This > >> internal enemy is also resolutely claimed as > integral to India. The > >> state and its loyal subjects repeat the same > refrain: 'Kashmir is an > >> integral part of India.' 'Kashmir is integral to > India.' Kashmir is the > >> other that is integral to the self, a difference > that is integral to > >> the identity of India. How then does India treat > this other, this > >> integral difference? To debase, devalue, > disrespect, destroy the > >> people, culture, history, land, waters, > aspirations, imaginations, > >> passions, thoughts, of this other that is claimed > as integral to self > >> reveals much about India's current state of > existence. What other > >> measure is available to us to assess ourselves as > ethical entities than > >> how we treat the other, how we engage the > differences to which we are > >> ethically obliged to respond? What nation has > satisfactorily answered > >> to this call? If a day arrives when Kashmir is 'a > nation unto itself', > >> independent and sovereign, an equal to all other > nations, will Kashmir > >> point the nation-state in a new direction? Will > the differences > >> integral to Kashmir be respected, affirmed, heard > and engaged? Will > >> 'the other' be the call to 'the self' to practice > hospitality? Will the > >> Gujur, the village woman who buried loved ones and > waits in silence for > >> words of/from other loved ones, the atheist, the > ardent believer, the > >> Shia, the Sufi, the pundit, the Buddhist, the > differently abled, the > >> homosexual, the beggar, the prostitute, be > welcomed as participants in > >> constructing a nation that will be 'a light unto > other nations'? Will > >> the other be welcomed without the demand or > structural incentive to > >> assimilate, to mirror/mimic dominance to be > recognized as human? These > >> questions are too much, perhaps even unfair. Yet, > is it not necessary > >> to raise them? > >> > >> > >> > >> Kashmir occupies a literal and imaginary border > >> as inside and outside of India in ways that > structure an impossible > >> predicament. The state (and its elites and > middle-classes) does not > >> trust Kashmiris whose allegiance is always > presumed to lie with > >> Pakistan as an Islamic Republic, thus denying > Kashmiris the rights of > >> citizens of India, while asserting the > inviolability of its sovereignty > >> over Kashmir as a secular, democratic nation > governed by equality under > >> rule of law. The distrust legitimates military > rule organized through > >> special laws as necessary to provide law and order > as a matter of > >> internal security. Thus, on the basis of being > part of a democratic > >> state, the rights granted citizens of such a state > are denied to > >> Kashmiris. Inclusion in nation is coupled with > dispossession from > >> historical memory, rights, and life. India > legitimates its mistreatment > >> through a logic originating with European > nation-states. This denial of > >> civil and human rights, rule of law, and the > freedoms of citizenship to > >> Kashmiris is because the state must protect itself > from forces within > >> itself that threaten its character as a lawful, > democratic nation. > >> India must violate what is most inviolable, > through a state of > >> exception (the use of law to suspend law as > definitive of sovereignty), > >> to protect itself. The discourse requires the > allegiance of the > >> Kashmiri people to India, as proof that Kashmiris > are not what the > >> nation suspects - traitors and terrorists, as > precondition to access to > >> the rights of citizenship. These same rights of > citizenship provided by > >> the nation, while denied to Kashmiris, are used by > India to justify its > >> claims to being a legitimate state entitled to act > as it does in > >> Kashmir. As a legitimate state, India is > predicated on civil rights and > >> rule of law that it may legitimately suspend in > the name of national > >> security. Kashmiris must align with India given > this legitimacy, while > >> living as subjects without rights in so far as the > state defines them > >> as a threat to its sovereignty. India must violate > what gives it > >> legitimacy in order to protect itself from the > internal enemy integral > >> to it. India must destroy itself to protect > itself. The state of > >> exception produces a state of autoimmunity. India > is also asserting > >> itself as superior to other regional > nation-states, and an emerging > >> player in relation to Western Europe and the > United States. Like other > >> powerful democracies, India is entitled to do > whatever is necessary to > >> fight terrorism and strengthen itself as a > powerful, sovereign, > >> capitalist nation, aligned with the movement of > progress (dominance). > >> > >> > >> > >> Kashmiris > >> are placed in a situation where allegiance to > India as prerequisite to > >> participation in a lawful democracy involves > allegiance to a state that > >> has no rational basis to demand or expect > allegiance from the people of > >> Kashmir. India needs to exaggerate the degree of > cross-border > >> infiltration and armed Islamist militancy to > rationalize 500,000+ > >> troops, blurred boundaries between police and > army, and massive > >> intervention in daily life through systematic > surveillance, land > >> seizures, checkpoints, torture, disappearances, > gendered and sexualized > >> violence, fake encounter deaths and countless > daily humiliations > >> calculated to break the spirit of the Kashmiri > people. This reality is > >> currently resisted through mass demonstrations, > regular protests, > >> strategic use of elections, strategic boycott of > elections, navigating > >> restrictions on 'free press', civil society > mobilizations, legal cases, > >> an International Tribunal, and regular acts of > dignity, courage, and > >> faith that characterize the present in Kashmir. > India demonstrates the > >> persona all too common in the 'league of nations' > - to act with > >> impunity and disregard for international law and > local demands for > >> justice. India uses this fiction of the Kashmiri > as existing in the > >> shadowy space of inside/outside the nation to > legitimate an occupation > >> that ignores the historical particularity of > Kashmir and the promises > >> made to the people of Kashmir to determine its own > future. The plight > >> of Kashmiri pundits also becomes an opportunity > for the state to > >> legitimate regularized violence and systematic > oppression of Kashmiris. > >> Were all Kashmiris, whether currently residing in > the state of > >> Jammu/Kashmir or elsewhere, to be given voice to > express their will, > >> free from coercion, retribution, and manipulation, > the outcome would > >> not be in doubt. > >> > >> > >> > >> Kashmir is the longest standing disputed area > >> in the United Nations, the most militarized spot > on earth, and a drain > >> on the hopes for prosperity, peace and freedom for > people throughout > >> the subcontinent, and the world. There is no > moving toward peaceful > >> coexistence between India and Pakistan, no > stabilization of the region, > >> no possibility for global nuclear disarmament, no > hope for forms of > >> development that prioritize sustainability and > cultural survival over > >> militarization, urbanization, and middle-class > consumerism, no space > >> for the impossible healing through > mourning/memorializing the trauma of > >> Partition, without granting self-determination to > the people of Kashmir. > >> > >> > >> > >> The > >> realization of that which is demanded by > rationality in service of > >> justice and emancipation is always against the > odds. In relation to > >> Kashmir, a more peaceful future requires at least > four interrelated > >> movements: (1) Massive, non-violent, ethical > dissent within Kashmiri > >> civil society must continue and expand, attentive > to alliances that > >> build stronger relations between men and women, > youth and adults, > >> various faith communities, urban and rural, rich > and poor, facilitative > >> of inclusive forms of polity that enable a > diverse, pluralistic > >> movement for freedom. (2) Leadership must form a > unified coalition that > >> activates and learns from the multiple > constituencies that make up > >> Kashmiri society. Divergent desires and > imaginations regarding the > >> future of Kashmir should be encouraged and > discussed, outside the > >> search for homogeneity or conformity. A Kashmir > free of subjugation > >> should enable multiple forms of life through > participatory democracy, > >> just governance, and economic practice promoting > health, education, and > >> individual and collective prosperity. Natural > resources, like water, > >> should be both safeguarded, and utilized for > sustainable development. > >> Cultural heritage should be understood as an > inheritance of all > >> Kashmiris to fashion a unique society nurturing > hospitality, > >> innovation, and multicultural polity. (3) > Education and mobilization to > >> shift public opinion in India must be undertaken > throughout civil > >> society to expand pressure on the Indian state. > Citizen delegations > >> from the various states and communities of India > must visit Kashmir to > >> learn first hand about the atrocities, > resistances, hopes, and concerns > >> prevalent in Kashmir. Such delegations must bring > their new > >> understandings to their neighborhoods, schools, > workplaces, and places > >> of worship to facilitate discussion and reflection > that expand the > >> voices of those who demand that illegal and > immoral action in Kashmir > >> done in their name immediately cease. Institutions > in India must > >> sponsor delegations from Kashmir, composed of > diverse peoples who > >> constitute Kashmiri society, to share the > realities they have suffered > >> and the need for alliance toward justice. Hindu > faith communities must > >> forge relationships with social justice movements > in civil society in > >> Kashmir to oppose Hindu majoritarian dominance and > insist that the > >> Indian state demilitarize the state of Jammu & > Kashmir, become > >> accountable to international agreements, rule of > law, and human rights > >> as the first step on the road to affirming the > right of Kashmir to > >> self-determination. Universities and the press > must play a strong role > >> in addressing the history and present of Kashmir > to empower students > >> and the citizenry of India to participate as > informed members of a > >> democratic republic, whose resources and > conscience are systematically > >> misused and violated by their government. (4) > International > >> solidarities from citizens, governmental and > non-governmental > >> organizations, students, workers, professionals, > public intellectuals, > >> faith communities, and all interested parties must > be organized to > >> educate, inform, advocate, and mobilize for the > liberation of Kashmir. > >> International institutions must be both utilized > and strengthened as > >> legitimate sites able to hold nation-states > legally accountable for > >> their actions. Research, education, and > publication on the reality of > >> present-day Kashmir and its modern history must be > supported by and > >> within universities, think tanks, and civil > society forums. Campuses > >> must become sites where students mobilize > themselves to exert public > >> pressure to ethically resolve the situation in > Kashmir. Resistance in > >> all four 'sites' must struggle to establish > alliances, clarify goals, > >> mobilize resources, deconstruct desires, and carve > out space where > >> different forms of polity and community, promoting > ethical dissent, may > >> live. > >> > >> > >> > >> To commit to these practices secures no > guarantees. The > >> process must draw from the resolve of Kashmiris to > struggle for justice > >> and strengthen this resolve through principled > alliance that breaks the > >> isolation and despair that accompanies any people > subjected to brutal > >> mistreatment. The multiple legacies that inspire > and haunt us must > >> become the very sustenance that, through sharing, > nurtures our > >> struggle. Allow me to conclude by drawing from a > source common to the > >> three Abrahamic traditions, and of universal > relevance in the present, > >> Deuteronomy 16:20, Justice, Justice, You Shall > Pursue. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Richard > >> Shapiro is Chair and Associate Professor, > Department of Social and > >> Cultural Anthropology, California Institute of > Integral Studies in San > >> Francisco. > >> > >> > >> > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: > > > > > > -- > > > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From shuddha at sarai.net Sun Aug 9 02:07:41 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 02:07:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on In-Reply-To: <455777.83423.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <455777.83423.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D5EDE95-11B7-44B0-8ED7-C88746EB8B15@sarai.net> Dear Sanjay, Kshmendra, Junaid, Inder, Dear all, I have read with care the post forwarding Professor Richard Shapiro's essay on the situation in Kashmir (originally circulated on South Asia Citizens Web). I looked very carefully to see if there were indeed any 'sweeping generalizations' and 'misrepresentations', as Kshmendra insists this essay has embedded within it, I also looked for any evidence of 'anti India biases and prejudices', and I have to say that i found none. And, I would urge Kshmendra to actually enter into the engagement that Junaid invites him to undertake. I remain, of course, willing, as ever, to be swayed by cogent reasoning in any direction. A sweeping generalization would be a statement that would be insupportable by concrete evidence, or that could be vigorously by contrary evidence . None of the statements made by Dr. Shapiro, in his characterization of the development of nation states and capitalism, seems to me to be unsupportable by evidence. He begins by asking what can be done to work towards a just and democratic peace in Kashmir. He prefaces his subsequent comments by drawing a world picture that says - that the challenges towards finding a way towards such an end lie in the fact that - "The current world order is predicated on systems of inequality that hierarchically divide countries, peoples, cultures, classes, genders, sexualities, ethnicities, and faith traditions to the benefit of the few and the detriment of the many." (I can see no fault with this statement) "Dominant powers prescribe the rules of the game to their advantage and utilize knowledge, technology, and markets to structure social relations in their interests." (a banal statement, but nonetheless. unequivocally true) The new global order presents itself as the best of all possible worlds in which sovereign nation-states organized through representative democracy, rule of law, free markets with government regulation, Enlightenment rationality, and human rights are promised as the solution to the problems of poverty, war, ecological devastation, genocide, and terrorism. (again, true) The challenge, then, for anyone seeking to work towards a just and democratic peace in Kashmir would be to think outside this frame, which means, thinking outside the frame provided by the dominant world system, of thinking in terms of Capitalism, and the nation state. As far as I know, none of the so called 'resistance' movements in Kashmir is currently engaged in this process. And, no, In my opinion, saying that an 'Islamic' Kashmir, would in some ways be something outside of capitalism or the system of nation states, does not hold up to scrutiny. That, to me, would be dangerous, if not devious, dissimulation. So, in my view, (and I am not saying that Shapiro says this, though I think he does imply it, and I will demonstrate, later why). The current level of political intelligence and imagination of the 'resistance' to the Indian (and in some cases, Pakistani) occupation of Kashmir, is as much part of the problem, as is the occupation itself. But we can come back to this point later. In my understanding, the sharpest criticism that Dr. Shapiro makes of the evolving character of the Indian state (and of post-colonial states in general, he does not hold India out as an exception) is the following: "...(The) dominant narrative of progress through the spread of capitalism organized in nation-states and guided by knowledge has attained hegemony as it has captured the imagination of postcolonial nations like India. Postcolonial nations have largely reproduced the structures of colonial oppression and organized themselves to become players in the existing global order as militarized, hyper- masculinized, nuclear powers measuring their worth on the basis of GDP (Gross Domestic Product). Emerging middle-classes of massive proportion in postcolonial nations like India buttress this process of nation building that mirrors and enforces dynamics of globalization through the production of unparalleled poverty, massive and multiple dislocations, genocide of indigenous peoples, ecological disaster, and abundant psychological malaise. India is embraced by the international community, meaning largely the United States and Western Europe, precisely because it marches in step with the new world order. India amasses great cultural capital as “the world’s largest democracy” inspite of the fact that it is home to 40% of the worlds most economically destitute, and seeks to constitute itself as a nation through policies that disregard the needs of the vast majority of its population." I could not find a single phrase in this statement that rung untrue. Has the nation state in India, as represented by successive governments, regardless of party affiliation, not followed policies that have continued to ensure that 40% of the population not remained economically destitute? Have the needs of the vast majority of the population, in any form, be they in areas like education, health, nutrition, housing, land reform, amenities in the work place, social security, or public transport ever been met? Has not a bloated military and security apparatus, and the sheer waste of a nuclear weapons based security policy led to any improvement in the quality of life of the majority of the population? Have large dams fed anyone other than cement mill bosses and construction-contractor lobbies? Has the nation-state form in India not reproduced the 'structures of colonial oppression' and 'organized themselves to become players in the existing global order as militarized, hyper-masculinized, nuclear powers'? If at least this were not to be the case, we would have seen a large and impressive array of repressive insitutions, laws, and forms of executive functioning perfected during colonial rule be replaced, repealed or at least politically challenged by the new 'independent' nation state's ruling elite. That has never been the case in India, and in many other states like India, including, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Indonesia and Malaysia. Neither Dr. Ambedkar, nor Jawaharlal Nehru, (who's observations on the 'rights of the deviant' as paraphrased in the recent salutary Delhi high court judgement on Section 377 are indeed valuable to me) nor Vallabhbhai Patel, thought it necessary to introduce measures for the effective dilution and democratization of brutally centralized power in the Indian constitution (pious declarations in the 'directive principles' notwithstanding). No organized political formation (across the entire political spectrum from the parliamentary Left through to the extra- parliamentry Right) in India has ever thought it necessary to re- order the ethos of the military, security and intelligence agencies, which were cultivated by the colonial power to view the 'subjects' they watched over with an essential hostility. No effort was made to repeal laws like the 'Defence of India Rules', which, promulgated as a war time measure during the Second World War, continues to be the fountainhead and inspiration of every single piece of repressive anti-civil liberties legislation (from AFSPA to MISA to NSA to POTA) that has ever been placed on the statute books in the history of independent India. Not even the token effort to create and design a democratic city was made by the native inheritors of the Raj's legacy. The disaster that is the 'incorrectly' named Lutyen's Delhi (should be 'Lutyens and Bakers Delhi') which created concentric 'cordon sanitaires' between the rulers and the ruled, and effectively blanked out the organic evolution of democratic public and civic space in the post war metroplitian spurt, is a sign of the seamless continuity between the colonial and the post colonial imagination. In which of these instances, can we fault the spirit of Dr. Shapiro's gesture? In actual fact, we have seen repressive laws being strenthened by even sterner measures. Those who have short memories may balk at the idea that the darlings of Indian 'democracy', Jawaharlal Nehru and his cabinet, ordered the aerial bombing of a city like Imphal by the Indian Air Force, or that they summarily used draconian military power to dismiss constitutionally elected bodies of governance in what is today called 'India's north east' (see the sad history of Manipur to know how and why) but unfortunately, the historical record is plain to see. It is true, large parts of India, were spared the intense and brutal repression that accompanied military dictatorship in states like Pakistan and Bangladesh, and autocratic monarchy in Nepal, but then again, large parts of the territories held by india, which included the Kashmir valley and many regions of the north east, (and now include vast swathes of Central India) have had to deal with the effective suspension of civic rights (including the most basic - rights to life and liberty) due to the continued operation of laws such as the Armed Forces Special Powers Act. In these areas, the tom- tomming of Indian 'democracy' (routinely to the accompaniment of elections held under the shadow of conditions approximating what happened during 'elections' in the erstwhile Soviet Union, and in my opinion, today's Iran) sounds shrill and hollow, at least to my ears. Of course, what this situation has engendered is its own pathological mirroring, and I have no doubt at all, that the various 'liberation fronts' and 'people's armies', 'hizb's', 'lashkars' and other sundry armed bands that striate the tragic history of insurgency in Republican india act only as shadows and mirrors, in their equally brutal functioning, of the state that they claim to oppose. The processes of the tightening of state security systems, increasing militarization, dispossession of people from their access to resources in the name of 'development', cultural majoritarianism that threatens and intimidates expressions of diversity, the increasing invocation of a state of exception (the usage of law to suspend law) and the spectre of the 'internal enemy' who is also claimed as the privileded subject on whose (if necessary, forcible) integration into the 'mainstream' of the Indian nation, the entire discourse of nationhood (in its communal or secular reading) rests - is not particular to the history of the Republic of India. It would do just as well for a description of the structural processes at work in every nation state in the world, to greater or lesser degrees, depending on the extent of power that the apparatus of the state and its allied core constituencies in the society and economy can marshall to itself, in each instance. This is just as true of the history of the United States of America, of the Islamic Republics of Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan, of the (former) Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (and its satellites and successor states, including Russia), of the Peoples Republic of China, of the Republic of China, of the State of Israel, of the Palestinian 'territories', of the United Kingdom, the various successive and parallel states that have laid claim to being representative of the German 'volk' in the modern world and of states as diverse as the United States of Nigeria, the Republic of Italy, the Federation of Nigeria and the Commonwealths of Canada and Australia. (My laundry list of modern states and state formations can be expanded in any direction, I list them somewhat obsessively only in order to show that I am not 'prejudiced' either for or against any particular form, mode or style of state power). In each of these instances, the historical record shows us the tighetening of the state apparatus, dispossession, ecological devastation, organized violence, either initiated and executed, or aided and abetted by the state, or tolerated by the state, against particular populations (some of whom may be citizens, while others need not be), pathological forms of cultural majoritarianism and intolerance towards minorities, ecological devastation, and (who would deny today) increasing immiseration and pauperization of large segments of the working population. I now come to the question of an 'anti-India' bias in Prof. Shapiro's text. There would have been valid grounds to object against a 'bias', if Prof. Shapiro had held 'India' out as a nation-state acting against the grain of how nation states have historically acted and constituted themselves. If India were in some senses, shown by him, to be a 'rogue' state, that acted against the norms set by the behaviour of other nation states and the international community. On the contrary, Prof. Shapiro, (repeatedly) says that India, acts exactly as other nation-states do. Here are three instances where this is the case - 1. "...India legitimates its mistreatment through a logic originating with European nation-states." 2. "...Like other powerful democracies, India is entitled to do whatever is necessary to fight terrorism and strengthen itself as a powerful, sovereign, capitalist nation, aligned with the movement of progress (dominance)." 3. "...India demonstrates the persona all too common in the ’league of nations’ - to act with impunity and disregard for international law and local demands for justice." 4. "...India forms itself as nation with unexamined Hindu majoritarianism at its base, just as unexamined Christian cultural dominance organizes the United States, rendering explorations of the links between religionization, nationalism and particular secularisms close to impossible. India is also typical in its self-formation as nation in fashioning internal and external enemies as crucial to defining itself, and super- exploiting its most proximate ’others’ to fuel its prosperity. European nations had the Jew as internal enemy. The United States is founded on the backs of its twin others - enslaved Africans and massacred Native Americans." In each of these statements, Prof. Shapiro, is not suggesting that other nation states, be they European nation-states, or the nation- state form as it involved in his own country, the United States of America, have demonstrated evidence of conduct in any ways superior to the conduct of the Indian nation-state. In fact, he argues for a critique of the state form itself. He may, then, be legitimately accused of a bias against the state form itself, but not by any means of a bias against 'India' as such. In fact, he makes it clear that he sees a broad alliance between people interested in peace and justice in India and in Kashmir as one of the essential factors that could possibly guarantee a workable and just solution. This call for an alliance between 'Indians' and those under de facto 'Indian' occupation, (which would not sit comfortably with the entrenched interests of either Indian or Kashmiri nationalists) is itself a sign that he values the participation of 'Indians' in any efforts towards peace in Kashmir, and in South Asia as a whole, very highly. While I do not see any evidence of an 'anti-Indian' bias in Prof. Shapiro's text, I do see a thinly disguised form of 'Indian exceptionalism' in the assertion that he does betray an 'anti-india' bias. As a normal nation-state, the Indian state, like any other state, should be subject to criticism, or not, on the basis of its actions and policies. A criticism of the actions and policies of the Indian state is not evidence of an 'anti-india' bias, just as criticism of the actions and policies of the states of the United States of America, or the Islamic Republic of Iran, or the State of Israel, are not evidences of any biases against America, Iran, or Israel. On the contrary, criticism of the actions of a nation-state may be the highest form of solidarity with the people in whose name the nation state stands constituted. During Nazi rule in Germany, a criticism of the state was simultaneously a defence of the best that elements within what we call German culture and heritage had to offer to humanity as a whole. Finally, let me come to a last, but very interesting point. (and I am grateful to Inder Salim for drawing our attention to this before me.) Prof. Shapiro says - "...If a day arrives when Kashmir is ’a nation unto itself’, independent and sovereign, an equal to all other nations, will Kashmir point the nation-state in a new direction? Will the differences integral to Kashmir be respected, affirmed, heard and engaged? Will ’the other’ be the call to ’the self’ to practice hospitality? Will the Gujur, the village woman who buried loved ones and waits in silence for words of/from other loved ones, the atheist, the ardent believer, the Shia, the Sufi, the pundit, the Buddhist, the differently abled, the homosexual, the beggar, the prostitute, be welcomed as participants in constructing a nation that will be ’a light unto other nations’? Will the other be welcomed without the demand or structural incentive to assimilate, to mirror/mimic dominance to be recognized as human? These questions are too much, perhaps even unfair. Yet, is it not necessary to raise them?" Shapiro is implicitly urging us to ask whether there is any evidence to show that the imagination of the state upheld by the 'resistance' in Kashmir is going to lead to the emergence of a state form that is in any way different to the one that is seen as oppressive by them. The same question could have been asked of Indian nationalists in the heyday of their struggle against the unjust oppression meted out on to the subjects of the British Empire in India. The answer, I suspect, in either case, would have been identical. I see no evidence to suggest that any current within the 'resistance' in Kashmir has anything substantive to offer in response to this question. And while, I do not share the caveat of the 'perhaps' in Shapiro's asking of the question. (No, I do not think that their asking is 'too much', or even, 'unfair'). I do agree with him, that it is absolutely necessary to raise them. One's responsibility towards one's friends, in my opinion, is to always ask them hard questions. To refrain from doing so, is not a sign of solidarity, but condescension. I am glad that Prof. Shapiro has asked (however cautiously) this hard question. It is up to our friends in the 'resistance' in Kashmir, to provide a satisfactory set of answers. Neither the tired slogans of 'secular nationalism' nor the fading light of 'Islamism' (of any sort) will, I suspect, provide answers that are commensurate to the strength of the question. I do hope however, that the call for the expansion and continuation of what Prof. Shapiro calls "..massive, non-violent, ethical dissent within Kashmiri civil society... attentive to alliances that build stronger relations between men and women, youth and adults, various faith communities, urban and rural, rich and poor, facilitative of inclusive forms of polity that enable a diverse, pluralistic movement for freedom" - and the explicit desire for - "leadership...(that can and) must form a unified coalition that activates and learns from the multiple constituencies that make up Kashmiri society" - together with the a insistence that "... divergent desires and imaginations regarding the future of Kashmir... be encouraged and discussed, outside the search for homogeneity or conformity" - leading to the emergence of "...a Kashmir free of subjugation (that can) enable multiple forms of life" - can in fact be a beacon to the rest of South Asia. In my understanding, neither the armed insurgent cadre, nor the 'moderate' or 'hardline' separatist 'political' leadership within the Kashmir valley, nor the different 'pro-India', or 'pro-Pakistan', or 'pro-Independence' elements have displayed, till now the capacity, intelligence, or imagination to come up with such responses. The peoples of Kashmir, have time and again, been betrayed by their leaders (and in this they share the destinies of many other peoples elsewhere in the world) and by many of those who claim, or have claimed, to speak on their behalf. Perhaps, it is time, that the initiative for the future of Kashmir was wrested away from these competing 'leaders and cadres' and restored to where it belongs - in the hearts, minds and conversations of ordinary people, Kashmiri and others. I end with the hope that Prof. Shapiro's text and this exchange that follows from it, can contribute to the health of that conversation. All our futures, within and without Kashmir, depends on it. best, Shuddha PS : And I also hope that the conversation can continue without having to take recourse to the drawing of post dated cheques drawn on self-constituting 'Banks of Intellect' - (and here I was, naiively thinking 'Banks' were having a tough time in the recession) amounting to the invocation of the identities of any one's spouse. A repetition of such a charge would amount to hitting a new low, even for a list as 'lively', as ours. :-) ------------ On 08-Aug-09, at 8:13 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Sanjay > > "Engaging" with rantings with prejudice and bias embedded in them > is at most times foolish venturing. > > That is a "by-the-way" comment. A phrase often used in Kashmir > which Shapiro would not know about just as he knows little about > Kashmir other than through regurgitated Anti-India propaganda. By- > the-way. > > As I told Junaid, I will elaborate on my "summary dismissal" when > time allows me. > > But I would like to understand from you too: > > - Is it your position that Richard Shapiro has NOT made any > 'sweeping generalisations' and 'misrepresentations'? > > - Is it your position that Richard Shapiro's essay does NOT make > evident any (Anti-India) 'prejudice and bias'? > > As you would have read, Inder Salim has already drawn attention to > some of the critical flaws and comments arising from engaging in > half-truths by Shapiro in his essay. > > Kshmendra > Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From shuddha at sarai.net Sun Aug 9 04:04:39 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 04:04:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on In-Reply-To: <8D5EDE95-11B7-44B0-8ED7-C88746EB8B15@sarai.net> References: <455777.83423.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <8D5EDE95-11B7-44B0-8ED7-C88746EB8B15@sarai.net> Message-ID: Dear All, Apologies for having to make this minor, but not insignificant clarification. The phrase 'United States of Nigeria' used in my previous posting should read as the 'United States of Mexico'. 'The Federation of Nigeria' (invoked in the next sentence) is the correct form of the state in Nigeria. The devil (some say the divine) is in the details. best Shuddha On 09-Aug-09, at 2:07 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear Sanjay, Kshmendra, Junaid, Inder, Dear all, > > I have read with care the post forwarding Professor Richard Shapiro's > essay on the situation in Kashmir (originally circulated on South > Asia Citizens Web). I looked very carefully to see if there were > indeed any 'sweeping generalizations' and 'misrepresentations', as > Kshmendra insists this essay has embedded within it, I also looked > for any evidence of 'anti India biases and prejudices', and I have to > say that i found none. Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Aug 9 05:14:22 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 00:44:22 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] UK National ID card cloned in 12 minutes In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908080359q2467d54ap6a51cfd3deacdd22@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090806162500.GB10821@narnia.kingsly.net> <65be9bf40908061030w94a2f4dxb6b4140ac92f68f@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908070207h2bfcbfdco8abf353b967393c6@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908070237o757c8349h125405a4ea18d5ee@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908070251i2d782d5cmf791c2e4fd2d2552@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908070504v784ffe1br4ac13ff87dc5ecb2@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908070746k6502f7ffr91d95dad3d656ca7@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908072144x42053cf8j74839e7c929071a7@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908080246w3842035fh409814b7365d93a8@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908080359q2467d54ap6a51cfd3deacdd22@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40908081644u46cbd861t9784bc79a73823c9@mail.gmail.com> Dear Murali and Dear All, The core issue with the way in which they run things in India, particularly those that relate to Bhumi and its various putras is this- there is no clear definition of either ma or her betas. The most strongest argument in favor of UID/MNIC is that, it gives 'Indians' not only a citizenship token but it also accords a unique number or an unalterable identifier which hopefully all of will carry from birth till death in near future. To make that argument more strong the GOI made due changes in the Citizenship Act. We must appreciate such a demonstration of clear thinking on behalf of our government. However, after some reflection it appears that, with UID/MNIC, it's most strongest, most appealing, it most utilitarian aspect, is also ridden with its most inherent fault, it most weakest link. In order to accord a plastic/silicon token to an 'Indian'. Somebody, somewhere has to KNOW for sure, whether 'x's' claim of being an Indian is true or not. That KNOW-ledge is unfortunately either there or either not there or if it is there then it is too fragmented, or, to use Jeebesh's favorite word, fractal. So we don't know. Of course we know our chachas, tayas, aur masis and buas, our bhais and bhabhis but some of the time we may not have proper records to prove that- they are who they claim to be. And I hope that you understand that I am not talking here in context of worthy souls like you or me but I am talking about rather 'US' -the bhumi- putras/putris/sas/sasurs infact the entire khandaan of mother India. I am talking about a rather modest figure of twelve thousand million people here. The GOI after much hassle completed a pilot project on MNIC. The problems which arise in documenting individual identities of a mere twelve lakh individuals, which by the way, took five looooog years to get complete were many. These problems come as a lament which a Standing Committee on Home Affairs laid on the table of Rajya Sabha and Lok Sabha, in its One hundredth and twenty fourth report, on 20th of March 2007. The problems enlisted were as follows- (a) this is the first time that such a project has been undertaken in the country. (b) no precedent is available for such a complex project involving both processes and technology. (c) unavailability of data entry operators in regional languages. (d) difficulties in capturing of photographs and finger biometrics, specially for persons who stay outside for employment, study etc. (e) power was not available. Diesel Generator sets were to be arranged from far off places. (f) validation of individual data for correct spellings of names and other attributes. (g) very cumbersome and tedious process of verification of citizenship; individuals were not found at their place of residence. (h) weak document base for determining citizenship of individuals in rural areas, specially for agricultural labourers, landless labourers, married females etc. (i) unavailability of officials from State Government for this work. [ http://164.100.47.5:8080/newcommittee/reports/EnglishCommittees/Committee%20on%20Rules/124threport.htm ] Total money allocated on identifying twelve lakh people was 130 crore. This means for roughly every one crore persons the money would be eight times one thirty or one thousand and forty crore rupees and for every hundred crore, it will be, one lakh and forty thousand crore rupees only. Do we have this much of spare money, this much of luxury to invest on a mere plastic token? Do people have any idea what kind of opportunity cost this money has? What can this kind of money can do to, say, agriculture? I am sure someone like, Rakesh would probably know what I am talking about here. It takes five years to completely identify twelve lakh persons as they claim to be, this means going by this rate, it may take, forty years to identify one crore Indians and almost four thousand years to identify a hundred crore people. Nandan Nilekani thinks he can do this job in one year. This means, he is claiming that he can completely identify almost twenty seven hundred thousand people in a single day, as they claim to be. And are we to even believe this trash because he help set-up an IT back office? Nandan Nilekani for whatever his genius, is no God by any measure. I think, for the sake of public reasoning, all the problems which came up during the pilot project, and which are available in the public domain, needs to be looked into, with the seriousness it rightfully deserves, by one and all. That includes people like YOU and me, Sir!! And mind you this is not the first time that the government of India is embarking on a historical adventure of measurement. Just as in the March of 2001, there was a sense of historical adventure, in the offices of the Registrar General of India, New Delhi, when the pilot project to measure citizenship status of a mere twelve hundred people (MNIC) was announced, so as, in April 1802, exactly a hundred years before that, there was a sense of historical adventure in the offices of Geographical Society of India, Calcutta, as the grand idea, the big idea, back then, was to get a geographical measure of India. If back then it was a measure of a geographical identity of India, then now, it is a question of the measurement of Individual identity of Indians. Just as Nandan sahib says, rather confidently, that in one years time all Indians will have a UID number and in a decade's time hopefully every Indian will a national identity card, back then it was William Lambton who was carrying the measuring tape. Lambton like Nilekani was a technocrat. Skilled mathematician. And a great netwoker. completely devoted to the cause. He knew, like Nandan does, that what he doing now will change how people will relate to each other in future. Lambton told his bosses that it will take him just under five years to complete the task. It is another story that after GSI completed it's operations, SIXTY years had passed. So the idea of our bharat ma, your mamma and mine too, our beloved mother India, came to be visualized as such, with its form and its contours only a hundred years back. And since then it has changed it's form, it's contours many times over. The point being, it is okay for people, like Lambton and Nilekani to make claims, it is okay for them to say any thing, it is okay for them to project certain images but are we to take any word as given, as a final yes or no? The point being that we must be thankful to the officers of East India Company, like Lambton and George Everest, for letting us know how our Bharat mamma really looks like, but with regards to UID/MNIC, don't we already know how we look like and who we are? So what's the big need, the big hurry, to embark on this project? Or are we so insecure with our selves that we not only need to carry more bits of molded plastic in our purses but also we need strange alphanumeric codes to exactly know who we are, or how we must relate to each other? Warm regards to you and everyone else from Taha ( and thankfully not from some 0799112BXXY80LKZ ) From asad_abbasi at hotmail.com Sun Aug 9 06:14:22 2009 From: asad_abbasi at hotmail.com (asad abbasi) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 00:44:22 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism and terrorism In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0908080233ka84bb88we9bb94c286b8d4b0@mail.gmail.com> References: <4eab87870908062244m2728dach89a52c87927ce509@mail.gmail.com> <5af37bb0908080233ka84bb88we9bb94c286b8d4b0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Yasir, I did follow this story. It was in limelight for a brief period. But in a country full of problems, these issues some how find a hiding. Below is a article speaking about this issue as well as similar issues that have happened in the past. I concur with bloggers ironic question "who says feudalism is dead" http://sappk.wordpress.com/2009/04/29/khaskhelis-victims-of-feudalism/ An Afghan proverb holds that zar, zan and zameen (gold, woman and land) are linked to a man’s honour. It is no different in Pakistan’s tribal and feudal tradition. While women are fighting back and wealth is no longer the exclusive preserve of a handful, land continues to be the most coveted element in the lexicon of male honour. Land hunger lies at the root of many evils. Civilised societies have another perspective. They regard housing, ‘the crucible for human well-being’, as the fundamental right of man to enable him to live in peace and dignity. For that he needs land. A demonstration of this conflict between the rich man’s greed and the poor man’s needs has been taking place outside the Karachi Press Club since mid-March. On display is the confrontation between the evils of avarice, violence, corruption and brute power, and the children of a lesser god who are backed by civil society. Nearly 40 — the number rises and falls — men, women and children, residents of Goth Mohammad Essa Khaskheli (Sanghar district), have encamped on the pavement to draw public attention to their plight. Theirs is a story quite familiar in Pakistan. It is said to be the usual tale of the powerful out to grab land and evict the weak from their homes. The scene of action is a small goth spread over 12 acres. The 150 families who claim to have been settled there for over 40 years now fear for their lives. They say their powerful neighbour, landlord Waryam Faqir, who reportedly owns 10,000 acres (a big jump from the 100 he possessed in 1985) has been eyeing the little goth. He has all that is required here to have things going his way — political muscle, economic clout and connections. (He was convicted of corruption by the accountability court in 2002 and sentenced to seven years’ rigorous imprisonment with a fine of Rs2m. But he managed to procure his release much before he completed his term.) As is not unusual, the landlord appears to have drawn on the might of the state to promote his designs. A tacit alliance with others of his class and that cuts across party lines may have helped. The conventional strategy adopted is to get state land transferred illegally to fictitious names. If there are people living there, too bad. They can be evicted since they are poor and their title to the land is at best tenuous. Take the case of Mr Waryam Faqir’s tussle with the Khaskhelis. The 250 acres of fertile land where the village is located belongs to the irrigation department. The Khaskhelis have been trying to get their 12 acres regularised but in vain. Mr Faqir has apparently enlisted the cooperation of friends in the right places in his bid to gain control over these 12 acres. In October 2007, he got the mukhtiarkar to certify ‘no any (sic) village in the name of Muhammad Essa Khaskheli is located in Deh Bitoor’. All this happened at a time when the residents of the goth were in possession of documents to prove that they have been settled there for decades — their welfare society was registered with the Directorate of Social Welfare in 1987, they have had electricity connections for 25 years and telephone facilities since 2000. A number of residents hold NICs, PRCs and other documents giving their address in the goth. On the Sindh High Court’s instructions the deputy district officer Sinjhoro ordered an enquiry in July 2008 which verified the existence of the village. The latest round has indeed become vicious. It is alleged that the village has come under attack, false FIRs have been registered and other methods of intimidation have been resorted to. Despairing of obtaining justice, Walidad, the elder of the clan, decided to come to Karachi to make his voice heard. Initially the Khaskhelis’ presence remained unnoticed until they discovered a benefactor in Najma Sadeque of Shirkat Gah who mobilised support to provide the villagers food for sustenance and shelter for the night. They could not be left to starve to death. The turning point came on April 12 when Walidad under severe stress because of the threats he was receiving had a heart attack and passed away. He accomplished in his death the mission that had brought him to Karachi. Piler, the Labour Party and Justice (retd) Rashid Rizvi also came to the rescue of the villagers. The scene changed dramatically. Eight dignitaries, including ministers, advisers and parliamentarians, visited the protesting villagers promising them police protection, financial compensation and justice. The Khaskhelis returned home to bury Walidad. But the promises remain unfulfilled. A week later, they have returned to the Press Club. Meanwhile, there are reports that fresh efforts are afoot to show the Khaskhelis as encroachers. In a desperate bid, they have faxed an appeal for help to Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry. This is no more just a tussle for land. At stake also is human dignity and the integrity of a few. Walidad’s wife wept bitterly pleading for mercy not knowing that this was her right. A revenue officer who has proved to be a friend of the Khaskhelis because of his honesty now faces a case filed by Waryam Faqir. Sixty years ago, Masud Khadarposh, an ICS officer and deputy commissioner Karachi, penned his famous ‘Note of Dissent’ in the Hari Committee report. In it he wrote, ‘Peasant proprietorship should replace zamindari’ with the goal of ‘creating a class of independent self-respecting farmers with sufficient land to enable them … to better their standards of living’. These words carry no meaning for a state and society as feudalistic in its mindset as ours. Repeated half-hearted attempts at land reforms in 1959, 1972 and 1977 failed to alleviate the agony of the Khaskhelis and their ilk. The situation continues to be exactly as described several decades ago by that great peasant leader of Sindh, Hyder Bakhsh Jatoi. He wrote, ‘The hari fears the zamindar’s punishment more than he fears the torture of hell, because he frequently sees the zamindar’s ‘bully’ in action.’Who says feudalism is dead? > From: yasir.media at gmail.com > Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 14:33:56 +0500 > To: reader-list at sarai.net > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Feudalism and terrorism > > asad, > > did you follow the Khaskheli's who were eveicted illegally by a landlordand > were camped outside Karachi Press Club for several months, where one of the > older men died, and finally with the help of lawyers they got their land > back. the landlord became a fugitive (varyam faqeer, ran away froma a court > which his men stormed in a youtube video froma local tv channel) and pir > pagaro intervened (as he was his man, to get the land back to the poor > folk). > > This is unheard of. > > best > > > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Murali V wrote: > > > Both Terrorism and Feudalism are dangerous weeds which will have to > > controlled. > > > > India also started as a nation with feudal lords generating bonded labors > > who had no access to education. INdia has come a long way since then and > > the > > feudal system has almost been cleared and as a result bonded labors. This > > has resulted in the rural population having access to primary and secondary > > education. There is still a long way to go as far as rural education is > > concerned, but steps have been continuously taken on this front atleast in > > the last 15 years to increase the education infrastructure in the rural > > areas. > > > > Pakistan had also became a nation at the same time, but the focus of > > Pakistan was constantly on India and to destabilise ,resulting in good > > funds > > being diverted to military buildup and promoting militant training camps to > > infiltrate into India. > > > > Pakistan could well understand the history of India since Indepenence and > > suitably modify its programs based on India's experience. > > > > More importantly, the education infrastructure should emphasise on > > non-Madrasa form of education system. > > > > Regards, > > V Murali > > > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:43 AM, asad abbasi > >wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > The discourse of feudalism is not only important forPakistan but perhaps > > > for South Asia. It requires different intellectuals from various > > backgrounds > > > to share their views and input their thoughts. > > > > > > It is important, i must say, because the stereotypical image of Pakistan > > is > > > of a terrorist nation. It is generally accepted that elimination of > > > terrorism from this country will not only benefit Pakistan but the whole > > > world. I, on the other hand, beg to differ. Because as i see it , the > > > stability of Pakistan is greatly affected by other factors including > > > feudalism as much as it depends on terrorism. > > > > > > A farmer in province of Sindh who works from dawn to dusk just so that he > > > and his family can survive. Also, that his children will have to be > > farmers > > > just like him, because the almighty land lord does not allow children to > > > study at the local school.(ie if there is a school at the first place) > > > > > > What will happen if Pakistan with all her resources try to eliminate > > > terrorism. But somewhere in this process neglects the issue of feudalism. > > As > > > there is no one to watch, feudal lords can only grow in confidence and > > may > > > start abusing the subjects (farmers in this )even more. > > > > > > Then Pakistan may have one of the following scenarios in 8-10 years. > > > > > > a) Pakistan has no terrorists and no terrorist activity > > > > > > b)Pakistan has insignificant amount of terrorist > > > > > > c)Pakistan wasted her resources and no damage was done to the hold of > > > terrorism. > > > > > > D) Mixture of any of the above situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > Moreover, because the resources were diverted of other issues such as > > > tackling feudalism, Pakistan may end up facing externalities for this > > > policy. And one side effect can be that, Pakistan will have a generation > > of > > > uneducated, illiterate and deprived people. Some census say that > > Pakistan > > > has a literacy ratio of 49%( Even though, i along with so many people > > with > > > whom i have had the opportunity to discuss this issue, believe that this > > > number is clearly an exaggeration and the ratio can not be more that 36%) > > > and it is generally accepted that mostly these people live in urban > > areas. > > > If Feudalism prevails, then majority of 51% (or 64% as in the other case) > > > will not have the opportunity to educate themselves. Which, and no sane > > > person will argue, will bring any country to developmental halt. > > > > > > > > > > > > Terrorism is taking lives and destroying places, where as feudalism is > > > making lives worse and destroys the privilege of education. > > > > > > > > > > > > It, my friends, is a important issue and just like terrorism should be > > > taken seriously. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Asad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Celebrate a decade of Messenger with free winks, emoticons, display pics, > > > and more. > > > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/ > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Celebrate a decade of Messenger with free winks, emoticons, display pics, and more. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/ From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Sun Aug 9 08:00:32 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 19:30:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <471801.1308.qm@web53605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> " What forces must cohere to enable a just peace to emerge in a democratic Kashmir in the foreseeable future?" And so the analysis of Richard Shapiro ensues.POK or PCK whatever one may choose to call it,is never mentioned. Nor is Pakistan's role in fomenting terrorism in Indian Kashmir and India finds a mention. Pakistan,it seems,in his opinion, doesn't have anything to do to enable "a just peace to emerge in a democratic Kashmir in the foreseeable future". Even Junaid ignored my question about whether he things only India is the occupying nation or he holds Pakistan too as one.(If he replied then I missed it.)I fail to understand why Pakistan gets a free pass. --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on > To: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" > Cc: "Sarai Reader List" > Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 4:04 AM > Dear All, > > Apologies for having to make this minor, but not > insignificant  > clarification. The phrase 'United States of Nigeria' used > in my  > previous posting should read as the 'United States of > Mexico'. 'The  > Federation of Nigeria' (invoked in the next sentence) is > the correct  > form of the state in Nigeria. > > The devil (some say the divine) is in the details. > > best > > Shuddha > > > > On 09-Aug-09, at 2:07 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > > > Dear Sanjay, Kshmendra, Junaid, Inder, Dear all, > > > > I have read with care the post forwarding Professor > Richard Shapiro's > > essay on the situation in Kashmir (originally > circulated on South > > Asia Citizens Web). I looked very carefully to see if > there were > > indeed any 'sweeping generalizations'  and > 'misrepresentations', as > > Kshmendra insists this essay has embedded within it, I > also looked > > for any evidence of 'anti India biases and > prejudices', and I have to > > say that i found none. > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Sun Aug 9 08:06:47 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 19:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Indo-Pak Relations: Pragmatism on Kashmir Message-ID: <734106.52115.qm@web53603.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Here is an old article by a Pakistani analyst which takes a holistic,realistic and unbiased view of the situation and does not talk in terms of rhetoric of inequality, hierarchy of nations etc. http://www.boloji.com/opinion/0045.htm Though its use in development of WMD is terrible, science has delivered uncountable comforts to mankind. No only that, it is a great social equalizer also. It has helped the humanity to break the millennia old chained social connections. No individual is superior now on the basis of race, religion and region. Whosoever excels in knowledge can enter into the world of his choice. It was not possible earlier because differentiation and its worst forms such as apartheid, caste system and slavery were being practiced puritanically. The science-induced civility has influenced the psyche of nations also. Hence, assimilation or annihilation of small nations is no more possible. Subjugation, however, still continues, and the poverty of knowledge is the only reason behind it. The victims instead of learning and improving their economies are engaged in confrontation from within and without. Who are to be blamed more, literate outsiders or indifferent insiders? Chances to bring about change inside are always there, and chances to end external confrontation also appear quite often, but they are not availed due to the indecisiveness of leadership. Though the repeated indecisiveness of small nations usually makes them lose more, it does not spare the big nations either? After WW II, the Soviets should have gone for revision of their stagnant system; fifties was the proper time: they wanted to do it, but didn’t, and when they did it, they were too late; and eventually the break-up of the Soviet Union was the only remedy left with them. The situation in the Indian subcontinent is not so grim, so far. But, given the faulty perceptions and indecisiveness of its rulers, it is likely to become so. The concept that militancy in Kashmir is keeping the Kashmir issue alive, and it is bleeding the Indians, is simplistic, cruel, retaliatory, and self-destructive: In this age of enlightenment it is not possible to assimilate or annihilate small nations. So, until Kashmiris are satisfied, their peaceful struggle too will create an impact, which would not be negative as created by the militancy. It would be humane and reconciliatory, and hence positive. As far as Pakistan is concerned, it has become totally dependent economically, as its strategy of bleeding India has backfired. Accordingly India too has failed. Its militarism, even if in retaliation to militancy, has made it lose much; if not technically, on moral front certainly. What is needed is immediate end to confrontation and start of positive engagement. Both activities should start simultaneously. It is a difficult decision but it must be taken. Leadership of Indian subcontinent took many bold and timely decisions in the past. It arrived at a consensus plan to divide India. Afterwards the Liaqat-Nehru Pact on the question of refugees saved Pakistan from unthinkable miseries. Similarly the most difficult of all the questions, the question of lifeline, the water dispute, was resolved through Indus Basin Treaty. But all the good that happened between India and Pakistan is neither discussed nor appreciated in both the countries. However not everything that happened between the two was good. There were grey areas as well, such as wars of 1948, 1965 and 1971, and warlike clashes in Khem Karn, Siachin and Kargil. Alongside these open examples of extreme confrontation, both countries subtly attempted to increase the intensity of each other’s internal and external conflicts. Pakistan supported Sikh and Kashmiri struggles and India attempted to fuel the ethnic tension in Sindh. Why did the good and bad strategies run side by side in Indo-Pak relationship is a very complicated question. However, if answer is to be summarized in one sentence then it can be said with clarity that the fears created problems, and commonness and commonsense led to solution of some of them and those, which remained unresolved remained so mostly due to indecisiveness of the leadership who had faulty perceptions about the ground realities. Any way the prevailing situation demands complete halt to the confrontation, militancy and militarism, because it has already done a lot of damage, and its continuity would inflict more, and that may eventually lead to irreversibility. It is widely believed that the source that created tension and ills in the subcontinent is issue of Kashmir. Though it is not even the half-truth, let us take it as such. Again the key to solution of Kashmir issue lies with the leadership of India and Pakistan, and not with the Kashmiris. If India could surrender twenty percent of Kashmir to China in Aksi Chin, if Pakistan could settle Kashmir border issue with China—on Chinese terms, and if India and Pakistan could decide the fate of three rivers of Kashmir, then what does stop them from solving the issue in totality? However, to find an achievable and acceptable solution is not that easy. The process would first require that the parties involved must turn to acceptance of existing realties and try to know how they were shaped. Kashmir was a part of undivided India, though with a status of princely state. Couple this sub-continental status with enormous confronting diversities that are located and locked in a complex and economically unviable geography of Kashmir, no one can and will take the Kashmiris as a separate nation in totality, no matter what they do, and how they fight; and the earlier this is understood, by the Kashmiris of valley, the better. Allow me to elaborate the argument. Kashmir cannot become independent – though in future it may get a special status under the joint Indo-Pak protection – because of its geography and small resources, and also due to the fact that there is a terrible division among the Kashmiris themselves that has basis in religion, ethnicity, geography and desires. The Gilgatis and Baltis do not count themselves as Kashmiris, and they will prefer that their area should become a province of Pakistan at the earliest. The people of Jammu and Ladakh will be happier if their areas are given separate status of states within the Indian Union. The Azad Kashmiris have socially and economically merged themselves with the Pakistanis and it won’t make any difference to them if the status of Azad Kashmir is changed to a province of Pakistan. Accordingly, whether India is in Kashmir due to inhuman Instrument of Accession (designed jointly by the Muslim League and the Congress; on the insistence of the former) and muscle power, or Pakistan has annexed a part of Kashmir through war and support of Kashmiris, the fact remains that both have attained some kind of legitimacy and fifty-six years of occupation has further entrenched their claims. But Indians’ legitimacy is, surely, under constant question in the valley of Kashmir. Though it has roots in the concept that divided India, the politico-economic mismanagement by the Indians played a bigger part. And the rest was done by the Pakistan backed resistance, though at a colossal cost that has brought destruction to everything – to life, to soul, to spirit, to intellect and even to the environment. Probable reconciliation between India and Pakistan would save the Kashmiris of valley from further destruction and recover the paradise lost, we can only hope and pray for that. But what is almost certain is that both countries will again be on the right road that was jointly built by their leadership through Liaqat-Nehru Pact, Indus Basin Treaty, Tashkent Declaration, Shimla Accord and Lahore Declaration. Now, once they are on the road, they should remain on it. Why is the right road left so often, it looks strange when seen through a broader angle of affinity? That no two nations have as much common between them as Pakistanis and Indians, and this relationship could have been used positively to resolve the remaining contradictions: Instead they are persistently on a warpath. If the reason for that lies within India and Pakistan, then its solution needs to be searched within India and Pakistan, and not in Kashmir. If conflict of Kashmir is the reason, then that certainly has a solution within the premises of Kashmir: Let me elaborate the point. Many analysts present an attractive parallel logic that Kashmir conflict would continue, because it is being used to cover or delay or solve the bigger and terrible conflicts of ethnicity and communalism that exist within Pakistani and Indian societies. Whatever the reasons and their epicenter, the solution of Kashmir problem must be found. After all for how long innocent Kashmiris, Indian soldiers and Pakistani soldiers would bleed due to it. The solution, however, would not be searched unless we accept many more realities alongside the ones that were debated above. Kashmir of 1947 exists no more and neither Pakistan nor India would surrender a single inch of Kashmir under their control to each other or to create an independent area for Kashmiris. Pakistan cannot afford to do so due to strategic and life (water) related compulsions. India too has strategic compulsions vis-à-vis China: Not only that any unfavorable alteration in area under its control will either create or aggravate immensely societal imbalances between its various ethnic and religious diversities. That is one reality; the other is that neither Pakistan nor India nor the Kashmiri militants can alter the status of the universally recognized Line of Control through force. These realities and their relationship with the volatile situation in valley, and also with the Indo-Pak societies form the fundamentals, to which leaders of the two countries would certainly pay attention, when they sit to discuss the Kashmir conflict. There are time-bound rational solutions, to be implemented in various phases, which India would like to propose. It could be conditional Independence or greater autonomy or self-rule for Indian Controlled Kashmir (ICK). But differences would surface on whether or not such solution should remain within the parameters of the Indian Constitution. India would insist on keeping its constitutional link and Pakistan would, likely, disagree. So, if efforts to put the Kashmir issue on front-burner fail, they would fail only due to egoism. Does that mean to remain on the road and to move forward, the issue should be put on backburner? Not necessarily, the Kashmiris of valley can do what elders of India did: Those who are involved in militancy should turn to peaceful struggle. On their part, India and Pakistan should enter into an interdependent economic engagement as early as possible. It will not only help in finding an ultimate solution of Kashmir problem, but also help resolve the class, communal and ethnic contradictions of Indo-Pak societies. However, due to size and scope of its economy, the responsibility to evolve and nourish a mutually beneficial relationship mostly or perhaps totally lies with the Indians and the actual blueprint for that has to be prepared by them. How superbly it would work is not difficult to visualize. In this regard a simple example of gas pipelines from Iran and Central Asia to India, passing through Pakistan, would suffice. It would earn Pakistan 700 million dollars per annum and India would save billions of dollars through adoption of cheaper land route. Wouldn’t it be an extraordinary achievement for both? Imagine how many doors Pakistan knocks at for assistance of a few hundred million dollars. Imagine also the after-affects of conditionalities attached to such assistance. Similarly look at the costly attempts and agreements that India is making or would make with various countries of the Gulf to secure its growing energy needs. Can’t they adopt a wise route? Besides gas pipelines, even oil lines are a possibility, and extending the interaction further would do magic for the economies of the two countries as the trade route, via land, from India to Europe would be opened. Here it must be understood that Pakistan would not act as an excise collecting state only. It would also gain in the fields where it is lagging far behind, and it is lagging in almost all the fields. Knowledge based manufacturing, which it couldn’t attain through fifty years of its friendship with the others, China and America, would surely be achieved by acquiring this new relationship; and that is what the economic blueprint would also mean, and that would require India to invest a lot financially in gas lines and also in other areas. The economic engagement would eventually lead to opening of Indo-Pak borders including that of Kashmir, and to defend them would also become a collective responsibility. Similarly with that magnitude of economic inter-activity the subjects of communication and the foreign policy would mostly become a mutual affair. Moreover the relationship in itself and social goodwill and the economic uplift connected to it would also help in solving the internal problems of ethnicity and communalism that have gripped the Indo-Pak societies. And a day would certainly come when Kashmir would be given a special status jointly by a prosperous Pakistan and a super power India, though that may happen after many decades. The great nations have no ego problems. America withdrew from Vietnam and Russia from Afghanistan and it didn’t reduce their honor and authority. West Germany recognized East Germany, and Egypt recognized Israel and that were the jobs no one would ever think of. And can there be a better example in entire history of mankind than the one that the Indian subcontinent provided. Division of a subcontinent was not a small thing. That it was attained peacefully through a consensus decision, taken by the Congress and the Muslim League, made the whole exercise unique and exemplary. If we were wiser fifty-five years ago, why cannot we act wisely now? And the time demands that the direction of wisdom should now be steered towards evolving a relationship on the pattern of European Union. Given the encouraging environment of today, and the political will of the present Indo-Pak leadership, it can be done. It must be done. What if the newly appeared chance is not availed, which according to Prime Minister Vajpayee is the last attempt from his side? If cruelties continue, the Kashmiris would obviously continue to suffer. The Pakistanis would continue to live with the unaffordable conflicts, and that would certainly add to their poverty. The Indians may not suffer as much immediately, but ultimately they too would repent. If the westward land route remains closed on them, they would lose a lot. Contained as they are now, they would remain so, for a long time to come; and that would surely stop them from becoming a major player in the world, and internally too their economic and social development would be curtailed drastically. Would Pakistan or India go for a war to change the status quo? No, they will not; at least not during the current decade. Yet, the continuity of tension for a longer period would amount to the same, because the losses that a war brings in a short period would also be brought, though gradually, by the confrontation. But, whether it is slow or sudden, poisoning remains poisoning. The times ahead would see the developed world preparing itself for a journey to a planet outside our solar system. Meanwhile where would the nations carrying the unbearable load of conflicts go: may be back to the mud houses: may be into the black holes of history: Who knows? – Muhammad Ahsan Yatu May 14, 2003 From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Sun Aug 9 08:13:18 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 19:43:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Jinnah to Jihad - book review Message-ID: <594720.73221.qm@web53610.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Another article (which is also a review of a book by an Indian journalist)by a Pakistani analyst. http://www.chowk.com/site/articles/index.php?id=16195 Jinnah to Jihad Agha Amin August 5, 2009 Tags: Kashmir , book , India Pakistan A brilliant Indian journalist Arvin Bahl has written an excellent book on Kashmir Dispute. I had an opportunity with interacting him in 2005 when he was writing this book and he was most kind to acknowledge my very humble inputs. A Pakistani would not have been so intellectually honest as Bahl. Bahls book acted as a catalyst in igniting me to re-reflect on Kashmir. Gist of my conclusions is as following :-- 1-Kashmir was born out of Mr Jinnahs disagreement to accept the simple majority formula of a state with Hindu majority joining India and Muslim majority joining Pakistan. This point was discussed in some detail by H.V. Hodson in his monumental book The Great Divide. 2-At the military and political level right from the start Kashmir served as a justification to military ambitions of generals and political ambitions of ambitious politicians trying to prove themselves as Bismarks, Cavours, Mustafa Kemals, Napoleons and Mahmud Ghaznavis. A means to galvanise the masses just like Daud Khan used Durand Line to galvanise the Afghans with diasatorous consequences. At the military level Pakistan missed the opportunities it had in 19447-48 and 1965 because of political and military incompetence. 3-At the ethnic level Kashmir was a case of a Punjabi speaking tract of land occupied by India. It recieved its greatest boost in General Zias time because Zia was a Punjabi. Zia laid the framework of the Kashmir low intensity war with half baked lessons from Afghan war. The same blue print has been followed by the Pakistani military to date. Even Zia the clown that he was borrowed the idea from Major General Akbar Khan who discussed this in some detail in his book Raiders in Kashmir. 4-Kashmir is a non issue in Sindh,Balochistan and now NWFP. In the past it was a non issue in East Bengal. Initially the idea was to manipulate the tribal Pashtuns in name of Jihad and loot/rapine. This was well till 2001 but when Musharraf committed the grand strategic blunder of sending the army against Pashtuns it became null and void. 5-Kashmir is a clever ploy used by the Pakistani military to assert its nuisance value. 6-Kashmir has been used by foreign powers like Britain and China to pressurise India. 7-In the aftermath of the Kargil faux pas Kashmir war became discredited and after the NWFP war of 2002-till to date Kashmir is far more discredited. 8-Kashmir is a tool to maintain primacy of the generals in Pakistani politics. 9-Kashmir will keep Pakistan a hostage to extremists and ambitious generals and politicians till the final Indo Pak war already being fought at the covert level is decided. It appears that the issue will be decided in next 5 to 10 years. Sanity will not prevail and the irrational forces in mans nature will prevail. It is the same situation as before WW One. Irrational forces will dominate and the issue will be decided after an immense amount of bloodshed. So be it because man as Freud long ago discovered is irrational. ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------- Former American President Bill Clinton referred to Kashmir as the most dangerous place on earth. In 1999 nuclear-armed powers India and Pakistan fought a war over Kashmir, and again in 2002 they came close to another. The Kashmir dispute represents one of the world's oldest and most intractable conflicts, having befuddled policymakers since the Partition of the subcontinent in 1947. Author Arvin Bahl attempts to analyze this conflict in the context of international relations theory, drawing on a variety of sources, including interviews with leading figures of the Indian and Pakistani establishments. Bahl argues that the question of the Kashmir dispute is really the question of why the liberation of the Kashmir Valley from Indian rule has been a foremost Pakistani national interest since the Partition. Realism, the dominant theory of international relations, argues that regardless of era, region, ideology or domestic politics, states will behave in the same ways when faced with similar situations in the international system, namely they will try to maximize the state s interests. Yet, Pakistan s quest for control of the Kashmir Valley represents a case in which a country s foreign policy cannot be explained by realism, and realism s main assumption of the state as a rational actor appears to be violated. The Kashmir Valley has little strategic importance to Pakistan, Pakistan has almost no chance of obtaining it against a much stronger power that dismembered it in a previous war and its economy is being destroyed by military confrontation with India, which also threatens its security. This study attempts to explain the puzzle of Pakistan s seemingly irrational policy behavior on Kashmir by developing a framework combining liberal and constructivist approaches. Constructivists emphasize the importance of ideas, ideologies and identities when observing how states behave. The ideology that Pakistan was founded on, the two-nation theory, makes ending Indian rule over the Kashmir Valley of utmost national interest. For Pakistan to concede that a Muslim majority region that is contiguous with it can be a part of India would be for Pakistan to accept that there was no need for the Partition of the subcontinent along religious lines and the creation of Pakistan in the first place. Liberals focus on understanding domestic politics in order to understand a country s actions in the international system. The Pakistani military, the country s most powerful institution since its formation, has used the conflict with India to bring about and legitimize its dominance of the country. South Asia gained prominence in American foreign policy after the 9/11 attacks and the standoff that ensued between India and Pakistan in early 2002. Thus, this study concludes with policy recommendations, primarily to American policymakers, for dealing with Pakistan and Kashmir based on the analysis developed in the preceding chapters. This book, we hope, is an eye-opener for all general readers. It will be found immensely useful and informative by students, researchers and teachers of History, Political Science, International Relations and South Asian Studies. About the Author Arvin Bahl is an investment banker based in New York City. He studied at Princeton University and received his A.B. from the University s Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs. He graduated with highest honors (Summa Cum Laude), was elected to the prestigious Phi Beta Kappa Society and was awarded the Richard Ullman Prize for best thesis on American foreign policy in the Woodrow Wilson School. Bahl has written extensively on South Asian matters. From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 10:56:13 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 22:26:13 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] For students: Need Development and Communications Fellow for Conflict Transformation Organization Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: altaf makhiawala ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Sachi Maniar *INTRODUCTION:* Abraham’s Vision (AV) is a conflict transformation organization that explores group and individual identities through experiential and political education. Examining social relations within and between the Jewish, Muslim, Israeli, and Palestinian communities, we empower participants to practice just alternatives to the status quo. For more information see www.abrahamsvision.org. *SEEKING:* AV seeks a Development and Communications Fellow for the fall and/or spring semesters. *Job Responsibilities May include: * - Support promotion efforts and track rsvps for large promotional event (i.e., in January 2010 AV is putting on a benefit concert to support Pakistani IDPs and AV, with Junoon , the most famous rock band in South Asia). - Updating and maintaining donor database. - Writing acknowledgments and helping with donor stewardship. - Conducting prospect research. - Assisting in the production of fundraising materials. - Researching online giving modules for AV website. - Research social media options, make recommendations and set up appropriate social media. - Assist with organization and standardization of website content. - Updating and maintaining contact lists in constant contact. *QUALIFICATIONS: * - Graduate student or advanced undergraduate student. - Strong attention to detail and research skills. - Strong interpersonal skills and ability to work independently. - Genuine interest in learning the nuts and bolts of development. - Passion for conflict transformation. *COMPENSATION: * Through this unpaid, the fellow will learn a great deal about the inner-workings of an ngo. In addition, due to the unique nature of our organization's staff structure, fellow will gain insight into the fields of conflict transformation and social justice education. In the past, previous Fellows have been offered paying positions within AV after the fellowship had come to a close. *APPLICATION:* Please email a resume and cover letter to Aaron Hahn Tapper ( ajhahntapper at usfca.edu). Applications will be evaluated on a first come, first serve basis. *MORE ABOUT AV:* We run two main programs, the Unity Program, for Jewish and Muslim high school students, and the Vision Program, for Jewish and Palestinian university students. In addition we run short-term workshops and presentations. In January 2009, in partnership with Columbia University and the University of San Francisco, we launched new facilitation training courses for individuals working with groups in conflict, spreading our groundbreaking conflict transformation methodology beyond the borders of these specific communities. What makes Abraham’s Vision unique in the world of conflict transformation are the following four principles: (1) Equal Partnerships/Teamwork: We are committed to equal partnerships across ethnic, religious, and gender lines. This commitment is reflected in our organizational structure as well as our long-term programs, workshops, and presentations. (2) Experiential Learning: We are committed to creative forms of education that both recognize the importance of content-based teaching and value individual and group participant experiences. (3) Encounters: We approach inter-group encounters as a reflection of the political realities in which we live, utilizing them as a central element of our educational approach. (4) Political Education: We focus on individual and collective relationships within current political realities, placing the relationship between individuals and groups at the center of the educational experience rather than analyzing political developments as something separate from students. *There is no other group in the US working with these populations that is structured in this way.* * * In line with these principles we seek consensus in decision-making among the organizations’ management team, which consists of Muslims and Jews, Israelis and Palestinians, women and men. It is important to note our commitment to working together as a staff that represents a range of different group identities. This is extraordinarily unique and innovative in our field. For example, AV is co-directed by Dr. Aaron J. Hahn Tapper, a Jewish American man who grew up attending Jewish Day Schools and Jewish seminaries (* yeshivot*) and Huda Abu Arqoub, a Muslim Palestinian woman from the West Bank. This illustrates that we, like the communities with which we work, have a self-understanding of being individuals that are also part of groups in conflict. We do not see ourselves as third parties, or neutral observers, to these conflicts. Further, while the relationship between Muslims and Jews is quite different than that of Jews and Palestinians, and the relationship between Jews and Palestinians in the United States is distinct from Jewish Israelis and Palestinians abroad, we understand all of these inter-communal relationships to be primarily defined by conflict. For us, ‘conflict’ is broader than armed confrontation only. We understand this term to include relations of power, levels of interaction, processes of dehumanization, and more, reflecting certain patterns, which broadly include competing narratives, cultures of denial, questions of minority/majority status, roles of perpetrators/victims, and assumed homogeneity. Jews, Muslims, Israelis, and Palestinians, in their respective relations with one another, exhibit these patterns and merit the analytical category of being labeled groups in conflict. Though not all of our programs are co-led across gender lines (due to our limited capacity of not being able to hire two directors for every one of our programs) our organization is committed to always being run across gender lines and 100% of our programs are co-developed and co-run across ethnic, religious, and national lines. We have regular staff meetings where we examine and discuss the staff dynamics internal to AV—whether related to gender, ethnic, religious, and/or national identities, among other signifiers—thereby striving to embody the ethos we teach our participants.. Hahn Tapper is the Director of the Jewish Studies and Social Justice Program at USF. Abu Arqoub serves as Adjunct Faculty at USF. -- Aaron J. Hahn Tapper, PhD Assistant Professor, Swig Chair of Judaic Studies Director, Swig Program in Jewish Studies and Social Justice Dept. of Theology & Religious Studies University of San Francisco 2130 Fulton Street San Francisco, CA 94117 Office: KAL 134, 415.422.2378 ajhahntapper at usfca.edu Co-Executive Director, Founder Abraham's Vision 295 89th Street, Ste. 308 Daly City, CA 94015 (w) 415.839.6889 (c) 646.266.6908 aaron at abrahamsvision.org www.abrahamsvision.org MAILING ADDRESS: 3571 Highland Avenue Redwood City, CA 94062 -- Mary Ellen Solon Emergency and Material Assistance Program Associate American Friends Service Committee San Francisco 415.565.0201 x27 From shuddha at sarai.net Sun Aug 9 11:20:35 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 11:20:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on In-Reply-To: <471801.1308.qm@web53605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <471801.1308.qm@web53605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <84273332-EB16-41D7-8990-603435C592C2@sarai.net> Dear Rahul, I don't think Pakistan should get a free pass at all. The ruling elites in Pakistan have been totally cynical about Kashmir, and have contributed a great deal towards making sure that the situation is as bad as it is. Nor am I under any illusion about the state of affairs in Pakistan occupied Kashmir. Elections in Pakistan occupied Kashmir have never been free or fair, and it is clear to everyone that a lack of commitment to the Pakistani dispensation in POK, euphemisticaly, and in a slightly Orwellian manner, called 'Azad' Kashmir, is a disqualifier. This is why, 'pro-independence' activists, who while they may have been supported by the Pakistani establishment, in Indian occupied Kashmir, have always had a rough time in Pakistani Occupied Kashmir. There is not much 'azadi' to be had in 'azad' Kashmir, but to be fair, there isn't the spectacle of the highest soldier-to-civilian population-ratio, or the Armed Forces Special Powers Act, either. A simple (and not very radical) move, like withdrawing the army in Kashmir to barracks, and a repeal of the AFSPA could make it possible to discuss the equivalence of the situation across the line of control. Until that happens, I think we have to accept that the Indian state will get the lions share of opprobrium, at least insofar as the handling of Kashmir is concerned. Having said that, we know quite well how the Pakistani ruling elite has historically handled dissent in East Pakistan and continues to handle insurbordination in Sind, or in Baluchistan. Those in Kashmir who see (or profess to see) the political landscape of Pakistan through rose tinted glasses are either deluded, or cynical. This situation is not by any means an exception. The regimes of Saddam Hussein in Iraq and Khomeini in Iran, routinely supported Kurdish nationalists (as long as they were on the 'other' side of the border) even as they ruthlessly persecuted the same Kurdish nationalists. That said, I think it is churlish to object to Shapiro's text merely on the grounds that it does not 'do' Pakistan. That would be like saying, in order to articulate a critique of the Pakistani ruling elite's venality in say, Balochistan, (which has a lot to do with a greed for gas) one must mention Kashmir and the Indian state's record in Kashmir, a thousand times. Shapiro writes against the context of a massive ongoing and formal/informal public relations exercise that projects the 'Indian state' as a harmless, 'nice', 'soft' state, while Pakistan is typically fronted as a near pariah spiralling towards Talibanisation. While there may be some truth in the latter assertion, the view that the 'indian state' is something like the next best thing to sliced bread is in need of some overdue correction. It is interesting to see how prickly patriotic Indians have become to the slightest hint of criticism, and how constantly in need of 'Pakistan' bashing their fragile egos are. As if, if there were no Pakistan, it would be absolutely essential to invent it, in order for patriotic Indians to have their little 'hate-fix'. I am sure this phenomenon is mirrored, like so much else, on the other side of the border. Closer to home, we have an interesting example of this narcissism, this petulance to do with all things 'indian', which must somehow be the alpha and omega of every discussion. A while ago, (not so long ago) there was a very interesting post, by Asad Abbasi, which could have begun a timely and critical discussion on Feudalism in Pakistan. Instead of discussing the issue, instead of allowing critical voices from within Pakistan to speak, this thread was hijacked by our 'uber- patriot' Hindutva brigade on this list, and sidetracked into a meaningless and irrelevant discussion on faith and conversion, in India, while the original posting had nothing to do with faith and conversion. What should have been an interesting, critical conversation on feudalism, or at least the persistence of feudal values and mindsets, in Pakistan and South Asia in general, had to degenerate into a platform for pious and macho Hindutva posturing. Till when will people in India think that they are some divine exception to the generality of the human species, above, beyond criticism and reproach, ready to leap at the slightest perceived slight to their fragile honour. regards, Shuddha On 09-Aug-09, at 8:00 AM, Rahul Asthana wrote: > > " What forces must cohere to enable a just peace to emerge in a > democratic Kashmir in the foreseeable future?" > And so the analysis of Richard Shapiro ensues.POK or PCK whatever > one may choose to call it,is never mentioned. Nor is Pakistan's > role in fomenting terrorism in Indian Kashmir and India finds a > mention. Pakistan,it seems,in his opinion, doesn't have anything to > do to enable "a just peace to emerge in a democratic Kashmir in the > foreseeable future". > Even Junaid ignored my question about whether he things only India > is the occupying nation or he holds Pakistan too as one.(If he > replied then I missed it.)I fail to understand why Pakistan gets a > free pass. > > --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > >> From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? >> Reflections on >> To: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" >> Cc: "Sarai Reader List" >> Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 4:04 AM >> Dear All, >> >> Apologies for having to make this minor, but not >> insignificant >> clarification. The phrase 'United States of Nigeria' used >> in my >> previous posting should read as the 'United States of >> Mexico'. 'The >> Federation of Nigeria' (invoked in the next sentence) is >> the correct >> form of the state in Nigeria. >> >> The devil (some say the divine) is in the details. >> >> best >> >> Shuddha >> >> >> >> On 09-Aug-09, at 2:07 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: >> >>> Dear Sanjay, Kshmendra, Junaid, Inder, Dear all, >>> >>> I have read with care the post forwarding Professor >> Richard Shapiro's >>> essay on the situation in Kashmir (originally >> circulated on South >>> Asia Citizens Web). I looked very carefully to see if >> there were >>> indeed any 'sweeping generalizations' and >> 'misrepresentations', as >>> Kshmendra insists this essay has embedded within it, I >> also looked >>> for any evidence of 'anti India biases and >> prejudices', and I have to >>> say that i found none. >> >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS >> Raqs Media Collective >> shuddha at sarai.net >> www.sarai.net >> www.raqsmediacollective.net >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From cashmeeri at yahoo.com Sun Aug 9 11:26:28 2009 From: cashmeeri at yahoo.com (cashmeeri) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 22:56:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on In-Reply-To: <5c5369880908080606t75c61902k35fda158fb7ca28@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <342126.56744.qm@web112614.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> sanjay   i understand   it was important for me to put on public record that i had not forwarded  to you my mail sent to closed groups and was not made public with my permission   i hope you understand that   sarai reader-list is a public group and archives are accessible to anyone   ...... aalok aima   --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Sanjay Kak wrote: From: Sanjay Kak Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on To: "cashmeeri" Cc: reader-list at sarai.net Date: Saturday, 8 August, 2009, 5:06 PM My apologies. It was forwarded to me, with no indication that it came from a closed web group. Of course Aalok, as would be obvious, you—or your comments—were incidental to the post. It was more to encourage Kshemendra Kaul to respond on this list. But nevertheless, my apologies for this breach of etiquette. Best Sanjay PS btw, is Sarai reader-list a closed group? Do our posts also make their way to other people outside of subscribers? Just a t On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 1:59 AM, cashmeeri wrote: > sanjay > > my mail was sent to closed web groups > > it is unethical of you to put it in public space without my permission > > ........ aalok aima > > --- On Fri, 7/8/09, reader-list-request at sarai.net > wrote: > > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 20:45:33 +0530 > From: Sanjay Kak > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd:  A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on > To: Sarai Reader List > Yes, I do agree with Junaid that Kshemendra Kaul should engage with > Richard Shapiro's arguments, rather than summarily dismiss them... > I just received a fwd about the Shapiro piece where Kshemendra's > dismissal has already become a venerable quotation for Aalok! > > Before it becomes graven in stone, we all look forward to a serious > engagement. > In the spirit of this Reader List, if nothing else! > Sanjay Kak > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > Date: Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 8:01 PM > Subject: -=Kashmir-Interchange=- Requesting KP intellect - Please > respond toRichard Shapiro > To: KPNetwork , > kashmir-interchange at googlegroups.com, kp-middleeast at yahoogroups.co.in > > > Without any doubt there is a Bank of Intellect that exists amongst > KPs, even though it might not be reflected in such habitual > 'Hate-Mongers' who while not contributing anything productive to this > world only do harm to the KPs and to India. > This request is for the KP Bank of Intellect and not the 'Hate-Mongers'. > > Reproduced below is a piece by Richard Shapiro "A Just Peace in > Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change" > > As can be seen after a read, the article (as someone described it): >        "...is replete with prejudice, bias, ill-concieved presumptions > and mis-constructed deductions. > The sweeping generalisations he makes and his misrepresentations > bordering on outright lies are only to be expected with his more than > evident prejudice and bias." > > Richard Shapiro is "Chair and Associate Professor, Department of > Social and Cultural Anthropology at the California Institute of > Integral Studies in San Francisco. (CIIS)" > > Shapiro is reported as being the spouse of Angana Chatterji who is > "Professor of Social and Cultural Anthropology at California Institute > of Integral Studies (CIIS)". > > Those who know about Angana Chatterji's  'work' will immediately > recognise not only the connections but also the commonality of > attitudes towards India  and Kashmir. > > The KP Bank of Intellect is requested to suitably and through > appropiate forums counter the 'case' being presented by Richard > Shapiro. > > Again, the "Hate-Mongers" are requested not to try and essay responses > to Shapiro because both their intellectual bankruptcy, ill-informed > and compartmentalised world-view and foolish attitudes will be > counter-productive. > > > ...... aalok aima > From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Sun Aug 9 11:46:05 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 23:16:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on In-Reply-To: <84273332-EB16-41D7-8990-603435C592C2@sarai.net> Message-ID: <143103.84219.qm@web53611.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Shuddha, You say "That said, I think it is churlish to object to > Shapiro's text merely on the grounds that it does not > 'do' Pakistan." To talk about the human rights situation in Indian Kashmir or AFSPA, I agree, pakistan is irrelevant. India's duty to Kashmiris in Indian Kashmir is not contingent in any way on pakistan. But when you talk about a long term stable solution in Kashmir,which is what the title of the piece leads one to believe it is about, you cant totally ignore pakistans disruptive influence like Shapiro did.I hope you see the nuance here. Also,I dont hold any brief for the Indian state.But I have a problem with the formulation of the Kashmir issue as purely a human rights issue framing the Indian state as the culprit,not for any other reason but that it is not the complete picture.If one tends to overlook that part of the picture because one thinks that it dilutes one's anti India rhetoric, one does that at the cost of being distanced from a pragmatic and realistic discussion about a solution to the problem. Thanks Rahul --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on > To: "Rahul Asthana" > Cc: "Sarai Reader List" > Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 11:20 AM > > Dear Rahul,  > I don't think Pakistan should get a free > pass at all. The ruling elites in Pakistan have been totally > cynical about Kashmir, and have contributed a great deal > towards making sure that the situation is as bad as it is. > Nor am I under any illusion about the state of affairs in > Pakistan occupied Kashmir. Elections in Pakistan occupied > Kashmir have never been free or fair, and it is clear to > everyone that a lack of commitment to the > Pakistani dispensation in POK, euphemisticaly, and in a > slightly Orwellian manner, called 'Azad' > Kashmir, is a disqualifier. This is why, 'pro-independence' > activists, who while they may have been supported by the > Pakistani establishment, in Indian occupied Kashmir, have > always had a rough time in Pakistani Occupied Kashmir. There > is not much 'azadi' to be had in 'azad' > Kashmir, but to be fair, there isn't the spectacle of > the highest soldier-to-civilian population-ratio, or the > Armed Forces Special Powers Act, either. A simple (and not > very radical) move, like withdrawing the army in Kashmir to > barracks, and a repeal of the AFSPA could make it possible > to discuss the equivalence of the situation across the line > of control. Until that happens, I think we have to accept > that the Indian state will get the lions share of > opprobrium, at least insofar as the handling of Kashmir is > concerned. > Having said that, we > know quite well how the Pakistani ruling elite > has historically handled dissent in East Pakistan and > continues to handle insurbordination in Sind, or > in Baluchistan. Those in Kashmir who see (or profess to > see) the political landscape of Pakistan through rose tinted > glasses are either deluded, or cynical. > This situation is not by any means an exception. > The regimes of Saddam Hussein in Iraq and Khomeini in Iran, > routinely supported Kurdish nationalists (as long as they > were on the 'other' side of the border) even as they > ruthlessly persecuted the same Kurdish > nationalists.  > That said, I think it is churlish to object to > Shapiro's text merely on the grounds that it does not > 'do' Pakistan. That would be like saying, in order > to articulate a critique of the Pakistani ruling elite's > venality in say, Balochistan, (which has a lot to do with a > greed for gas) one must mention Kashmir and the Indian > state's record in Kashmir, a thousand times. Shapiro > writes against the context of a massive ongoing and > formal/informal public relations exercise that projects the > 'Indian state' as a harmless, 'nice', > 'soft' state, while Pakistan is typically fronted as > a near pariah spiralling towards Talibanisation. While there > may be some truth in the latter assertion, the view that the > 'indian state' is something like the next best thing > to sliced bread is in need of some overdue correction. It is > interesting to see how prickly patriotic Indians have become > to the slightest hint of criticism, and how constantly in > need of 'Pakistan' bashing their fragile egos are. > As if, if there were no Pakistan, it would be absolutely > essential to invent it, in order for patriotic Indians to > have their little 'hate-fix'. I am sure this > phenomenon is mirrored, like so much else, on the other side > of the border. > Closer to home, we have an interesting example > of this narcissism, this petulance to do with all things > 'indian', which must somehow be the alpha and omega > of every discussion. A while ago, (not so long ago) there > was a very interesting post, by Asad Abbasi, which could > have begun a timely and critical discussion on Feudalism in > Pakistan. Instead of discussing the issue, instead of > allowing critical voices from within Pakistan to speak, this > thread was hijacked by our 'uber-patriot' Hindutva > brigade on this list, and sidetracked into a meaningless and > irrelevant discussion on faith and conversion, in India, > while the original posting had nothing to do with faith and > conversion. > What should have been an interesting, critical > conversation on feudalism, or at least the persistence of > feudal values and mindsets, in Pakistan and South Asia in > general, had to degenerate into a platform for pious and > macho Hindutva posturing. > Till when will people in India think that they > are some divine exception to the generality of the human > species, above, beyond criticism and reproach, ready to leap > at the slightest perceived slight to their fragile > honour. > regards,  > Shuddha > > > > > > On 09-Aug-09, at 8:00 AM, Rahul Asthana > wrote: > > " > What forces must cohere to enable a just peace to emerge in > a democratic Kashmir in the foreseeable > future?"And > so the analysis of Richard Shapiro ensues.POK or PCK > whatever one may choose to call it,is never mentioned. Nor > is Pakistan's role in fomenting terrorism in Indian > Kashmir and India finds a mention. Pakistan,it seems,in his > opinion, doesn't have anything to do to enable "a > just peace to emerge in a democratic Kashmir in the > foreseeable future".Even > Junaid ignored my question about whether he things only > India is the occupying nation or he holds Pakistan too as > one.(If he replied then I missed it.)I fail to understand > why Pakistan gets a free pass. > --- > On Sun, 8/9/09, Shuddhabrata Sengupta > wrote: > From: > Shuddhabrata Sengupta Subject: > Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections > onTo: > "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" Cc: > "Sarai Reader List" Date: > Sunday, August 9, 2009, 4:04 AMDear > All, > Apologies > for having to make this minor, but notinsignificant  clarification. > The phrase 'United States of Nigeria' usedin > my  previous > posting should read as the 'United States ofMexico'. > 'The  Federation > of Nigeria' (invoked in the next sentence) isthe > correct  form > of the state in Nigeria. > The > devil (some say the divine) is in the details. > best > Shuddha > > > On > 09-Aug-09, at 2:07 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta > wrote: > Dear > Sanjay, Kshmendra, Junaid, Inder, Dear all, > I > have read with care the post forwarding Professor > Richard > Shapiro's essay > on the situation in Kashmir (originally > circulated > on South Asia > Citizens Web). I looked very carefully to see if > there > were indeed > any 'sweeping generalizations'  and > 'misrepresentations', > as Kshmendra > insists this essay has embedded within it, I > also > looked for > any evidence of 'anti India biases and > prejudices', > and I have to say > that i found none. > Shuddhabrata > SenguptaThe > Sarai Programme at CSDSRaqs > Media Collectiveshuddha at sarai.netwww.sarai.netwww.raqsmediacollective.net > > _________________________________________reader-list: > an open discussion list on media and thecity.Critiques > & CollaborationsTo > subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith > subscribe in the subject header.To > unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List > archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > Shuddhabrata > SenguptaThe Sarai Programme at > CSDSRaqs Media Collectiveshuddha at sarai.netwww.sarai.netwww.raqsmediacollective.net > > From justjunaid at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 13:21:27 2009 From: justjunaid at gmail.com (Junaid) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 13:21:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on In-Reply-To: <625900.47326.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <625900.47326.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Shuddha, Kshmendra, Rahul, Inder, and Sanjay, Richard Shapiro's essay is important to me more for how it invokes various challenges and questions that the Kashmiri resistance needs to address, than his analysis of the way Indian state has evolved and its relationship with Kashmir. (I might, however, hasten to add that I agree completely with Shapiro's analysis of the evolution of the Indian state, turning of its identity--as Bhabha or Fanon could have called it--into a 'mimic' state, and the Hindu subjectivity that forms the "unconcious" of its preponderant nationalism. But I will let Kshmendra--whenever time allows him--refute Shapiro's arguments on this, or give reasons for his characterization of the essay as "replete with prejudice, bias, ill-concieved presumptions and mis-constructed deductions.") Some of these questions that touch upon, in a deep sense, the fundamental and substantive issues of democracy and liberty, or even the questions of the meaning and the dignity of life, of new ways of being with the nature and the world, have to be posed and answered by the resistance movements around the world. I do believe with Shuddha, and I have discussed with him before, that Kashmiri resistance needs to be reconceptualised, and instead of simply demanding a state that "mimics the mimic," it needs to create a new idiom, a new paradigm. It should seek to create a new society--and, of course, an independent state--which may not have already achieved the Ideal, but must have a template for such a pursuit. Shuddha has brilliantly encapsulated these challenges in his response, while Inder too hinted at some of them. These questions, that the Third World nationalisms have miserably failed to answer themselves, and the disenchanted from the yesteryears' colonized are now asking, with a lot of hope, of the new resistance movements, have not yet taken enough root in Kashmir. It can sound funny when people ask "Would gay people have their rights in an independent Kashmir?" or "Would minorities be not only protected but have equal rights as the majorities?," when the people these questions are asked of don't even know if *they* have a right to life (with dignity) in Kashmir, when the rigorously grinding everyday life under the military occupation doesn't even allow its people a chance to ponder upon their situation. Yet, at some stage or the other, if solidarities are to be built, if new alliances are to be created, if the Azadi in the real sense has to be achieved, these questions have to find some answers in Kashmir's resistance struggle. It's a big burden on Kashmir's bruised shoulders but resistance needs to make it its natural component. I do believe that Kashmir will be a vastly different society than what India or Pakistan have turned out to be. (And, I am not saying everyone in India or Pakistan thinks, or is, the same, or that there are no pockets of active resistance, and hopes of a better society in either of them---I am speaking of the "mainstream" norms, behaviours, and aspirations of the Indian and Pakistani states and nationalists). I strongly believe that Kashmiris are a forward-looking nation--a hope for a better future feeds its will--than one which seeks legitimacy from a past, especially a constructed one. Although, we have many histories and memories, and narratives of the past, but these don't inform our resistance. Kashmiris did not dig up a Lazaar or make a "Discovery" of Kashmir; if they spoke or had stories of the past, they were not ones about Lalityaditya or Avantivarman, or Zainul Abidin or Yusuf Shah Chak, but of Habba Khatun, Nund Reshi and Lal Ded. Kashmiris have been in active resistance since 1931, and different parties have had their flags and icons, but Kashmiri nationalism has had no flag or an iconograpy. Its nationalism is not dependent on them, and yet I think an overwhelming majority of Kashmiris see themselves and, act as, a nation. This nationalism is based on idea of solidarity to achieve legitimate goals. That entire Kashmir protests when two women are raped and murdered is a show of solidarity (instead of a show of "fundamentalism" that many in India characterise their fight for justice as). I agree with Shapiro when he speaks of the tactical moves that Kashmiris make in their everyday struggle as quite rational. Azadi, then, is not a struggle for some "glorious" past, but a hope for a better future. Azadi is unambiguously a struggle for national independence but also for liberation. Azadi is always in the future, always-to-come, in a Derridian sense. Which makes a constant struggle for a better, newer life, not only a possibility, but also a need. A future Kashmiri state, I hope, will not be a state that sees the Westphalian state system as a model, or mimics its erstwhile occupiers or colonizers, but probably in true Marxian sense will wither away under pressure from a constant struggle of its citizens. I believe, however, that there is a need for a startegic and a tactical support that the Kashmiri resistance needs. The disenchanted and the hopeful in India and Pakistan need to build bridges with the Kashmiri resistance. The critique of the resistance and the occupation cannot be the same. We do need to keep in constant check and under vigil demagogues in the resistance movement, and deflate and curtail their reactionary rhetoric and behaviour, but we must neither lose sight of, nor do it at the cost of, the deeply ethical dimension and the noble goals of a common Kashmiri's struggle for independence and liberation. @Rahul: I do believe that if people living in Pakistan-controlled-Kashmir want to be united with the Indian-controlled-Kashmir and live as a united independent Kashmir, they have every right to do so. There are many people there who have, despite, Pakistani suppression, expressed this desire and need, and I extend my full solidarity to them. They have an equal right of self-determination as the Kashmiris in the Indian-controlled-Kashmir. Recent Pakistani noises of "Independent Kashmir" are a welcome sign, but I am not sure if Pakistan Govt has really undergone a change of heart over Kashmir. But I do believe that most Pakistanis would welcome an independent Kashmir if India allowed that to happen. And I do think that a peaceful transition of Kashmir to independence will release immense intellectual and social forces in the subcontinent which will ultimately dissolve superficial and ill-conceived structures of thought and action, characterized by militarisation, nuclearization, war-rhetoric, externally, and hatred, otherisation, and communalism, internally, in both India and Pakistan. I do think an independent Kashmir will usher in an era of peace, stability, and prosperity in the entire Southasia, unlike the catastrophic scenarios some of the Indian intelligentsia have created. At this point, let me tell my Pandit friends this: Your narratives of your pain and suffering, and our narratives of our pain and suffering are unfortunately growing away and apart. We started at a point where we empathised with each other, we understood each other's language of pain, but we have reached a point where we don't even acknowledge each other's existence, forget about pain and suffering. Muslims of Kashmir now rarely talk about Pandits, as if they don't exist anymore. The daily existential struggle that living under occupation is, leaves no time for reminiscing. Pandits have become so habituated to life out of their home, that memories of home have remained frozen in a single moment--the 1990. Whatever happened to the home, and the home's other children has has gone unregistered. Some of us have started speaking a language of religious extremism, some of you now speak a language of right-wing Hindu nationalism. If asked, most Kashmiri Muslims want Pandits to come home. There is no way to express or articulate it though. But some of you say that that expression has to be the acceptance of Indian sovereignty over their lives. Muslims think the annihilation of their struggle and, effectively of their national life, is a condition which is utterly unacceptable. I do think that not everything has been lost. If only truth was allowed to come out. Perhaps the best way to rebuild bridges is to unconditionally accept and acknowledge each other's pain and sufferring. That Pandits accept and acknowledge the Kashmir's need to be independent, and Muslims accept the right of Pandit's to live with dignity, security and as full members of our nation (even if they don't support or participate in Kashmir's freedom struggle). Along with other minorities Kashmiri Pandits have the first right to ask of Kashmiri resistance to become sensitive to and acknowledge their needs of security and dignity. If the future independent Kashmir has to move in pursuit of the goals that we have laid out then the time to intervene is now! Junaid On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Junaid > > Sure I will elaborate on my comments made on Richard Shapiro's essay when > time allows me. > > You seem to have read the essay and it would seem you disagree with my > characterisation of the essay. Is that so? > > So that I can better address your request, would you please clarify the > following: > > - Is it your position that Richard Shapiro has NOT made any 'sweeping > generalisations' and 'misrepresentations'? > > - Is it your position that Richard Shapiro's essay does NOT make evident > any (Anti-India) 'prejudice and bias'? > > Kshmendra > > > --- On *Thu, 8/6/09, Junaid * wrote: > > > From: Junaid > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on > To: 425063.70526.qm at web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com, reader-list at sarai.net > Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 9:38 PM > > Hi Kshmendra, > > You have described Prof. Shapiro's essay as "replete with prejudice, bias, > ill-concieved presumptions and mis-constructed deductions". Could you > actually elaborate and give reasons for your characterization of the essay. > > Junaid > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From indersalim at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 13:55:33 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 13:55:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on In-Reply-To: <143103.84219.qm@web53611.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <84273332-EB16-41D7-8990-603435C592C2@sarai.net> <143103.84219.qm@web53611.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70908090125v5a770133j3b35de6464889d5a@mail.gmail.com> Dear Shuddha, dear all "The devil (some say the divine) is in the details. " wonderful, i like the line, and other nuances/points made by you in response to the discussioin of Dr. Shapiro's essay so far. True, all we have words, and the possiblitiy to enter the 'details' is not unrealistic.Beyond bullets, and 'kan-i-jung( war with stones ) in Kashmir, we have words, and other means which are deeply associated with structure of sounds ( silences ). And who knows what is hidden behind 'the detail' which is often brushed aside while we generalize. Conventionally the texture is subservient to a monument once appreicated from a distance,but eventually detail inundate the form once we develop intimacy with a particular monument. . And i beleive, KSHMIR is a monumental issue and deserves a closer understating , which certainly would be markedly different from the usual short-cut knoweldge on Kashmir. The details available to us, and i guess Dr. Richard is demanding from all the players, in and outside Kashmir, to look into the details of our respective presents, and he hopes that such an understanding might drastically reduce/annihilate those mind-sets which generate pain. An inhibitant of a particular area, a writer, a poet, an artist has her/his involvement with issues ( kashmir and other ) on their own terms. Dr. Shapiro's involvement from a distance comes from a nobler thought: vital and universal values of human beings on earth. Yes, Dr. Richard can not be part of the detail in Kashmir: for example this: Druing my shcool days, while going to shcool which was across the river Vyeth ( Jehlum ) we often met a neighbour, Mohd. Ali along with his three or four cows to feed them outside Dara Shikou garden in Bijbehara. He used to laugh and smile on seeing us. He was sanwala ( Krishana like dark skinned ) curly haried with a beautiful face in his 40's. He was always wearing clean clothes not usual to those who were in his profession. Once, he told us, or we came to know through some body, that he was a student of LLB in Ali Garh university and left his studies midway. The reason: he could not live without his mother. He missed her beyond his control. Now, by the usual standards, he is a failure, but his strong relationship with his memmory of his mother is beyond the purview of an outsider. I guess, sometimes, we have no mechanism to judge the other. Similarly, there are thousands of other details wihch makes a place profoundly interesting to an individual and thesociety she/he lives in. Language is another area which becomes vital to a society and so retains the fragrance of memory... Yes, my association with memory in Kashmir: we had a huge poppy field behind our school, and the smell of it as we know is very strong. Now, if i happen to smell opium or a poppy flower, i quickly remember by school days. I see the colour of the flowers and the school uniform simultaneously. Distributing kashmiri kulcha ( dry kashmiri bread ) , layered with poppy seeds, at JNU's arts and aesthetics, during a small group show was also loaded with such a texture/memory. So, i believe, detail/texture is very close to performances. And strangely, i feel why, hysterically, people come to streets.... the reason must not be only political, but something deeper... with love is On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 11:46 AM, Rahul Asthana wrote: > > Dear Shuddha, > You say > "That said, I think it is churlish to object to >> Shapiro's text merely on the grounds that it does not >> 'do' Pakistan." >  To talk about the human rights situation in Indian Kashmir or AFSPA, I agree, pakistan is irrelevant. India's duty to Kashmiris in Indian Kashmir is not contingent in any way  on pakistan. > But when you talk about a long term stable solution in Kashmir,which is what the title of the piece leads one to believe it is about, you cant totally ignore pakistans disruptive influence like Shapiro did.I hope you see the nuance here. > Also,I dont hold any brief for the Indian state.But I have a problem with the formulation of the Kashmir issue as purely a human rights issue framing the Indian state as the culprit,not for any other reason but that it is not the complete picture.If one tends to overlook that part of the picture because one thinks that it dilutes one's anti India rhetoric, one does that at the cost of being distanced from a pragmatic and realistic discussion about a solution to the problem. > Thanks > Rahul > > > --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > >> From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on >> To: "Rahul Asthana" >> Cc: "Sarai Reader List" >> Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 11:20 AM >> >> Dear Rahul, >> I don't think Pakistan should get a free >> pass at all. The ruling elites in Pakistan have been totally >> cynical about Kashmir, and have contributed a great deal >> towards making sure that the situation is as bad as it is. >> Nor am I under any illusion about the state of affairs in >> Pakistan occupied Kashmir. Elections in Pakistan occupied >> Kashmir have never been free or fair, and it is clear to >> everyone that a lack of commitment to the >> Pakistani dispensation in POK, euphemisticaly, and in a >> slightly Orwellian manner, called 'Azad' >> Kashmir, is a disqualifier. This is why, 'pro-independence' >> activists, who while they may have been supported by the >> Pakistani establishment, in Indian occupied Kashmir, have >> always had a rough time in Pakistani Occupied Kashmir. There >> is not much 'azadi' to be had in 'azad' >> Kashmir, but to be fair, there isn't the spectacle of >> the highest soldier-to-civilian population-ratio, or the >> Armed Forces Special Powers Act, either. A simple (and not >> very radical) move, like withdrawing the army in Kashmir to >> barracks, and a repeal of the AFSPA could make it possible >> to discuss the equivalence of the situation across the line >> of control. Until that happens, I think we have to accept >> that the Indian state will get the lions share of >> opprobrium, at least insofar as the handling of Kashmir is >> concerned. >> Having said that, we >> know quite well how the Pakistani ruling elite >> has historically handled dissent in East Pakistan and >> continues to handle insurbordination in Sind, or >> in Baluchistan. Those in Kashmir who see (or profess to >> see) the political landscape of Pakistan through rose tinted >> glasses are either deluded, or cynical. >> This situation is not by any means an exception. >> The regimes of Saddam Hussein in Iraq and Khomeini in Iran, >> routinely supported Kurdish nationalists (as long as they >> were on the 'other' side of the border) even as they >> ruthlessly persecuted the same Kurdish >> nationalists. >> That said, I think it is churlish to object to >> Shapiro's text merely on the grounds that it does not >> 'do' Pakistan. That would be like saying, in order >> to articulate a critique of the Pakistani ruling elite's >> venality in say, Balochistan, (which has a lot to do with a >> greed for gas) one must mention Kashmir and the Indian >> state's record in Kashmir, a thousand times. Shapiro >> writes against the context of a massive ongoing and >> formal/informal public relations exercise that projects the >> 'Indian state' as a harmless, 'nice', >> 'soft' state, while Pakistan is typically fronted as >> a near pariah spiralling towards Talibanisation. While there >> may be some truth in the latter assertion, the view that the >> 'indian state' is something like the next best thing >> to sliced bread is in need of some overdue correction. It is >> interesting to see how prickly patriotic Indians have become >> to the slightest hint of criticism, and how constantly in >> need of 'Pakistan' bashing their fragile egos are. >> As if, if there were no Pakistan, it would be absolutely >> essential to invent it, in order for patriotic Indians to >> have their little 'hate-fix'. I am sure this >> phenomenon is mirrored, like so much else, on the other side >> of the border. >> Closer to home, we have an interesting example >> of this narcissism, this petulance to do with all things >> 'indian', which must somehow be the alpha and omega >> of every discussion. A while ago, (not so long ago) there >> was a very interesting post, by Asad Abbasi, which could >> have begun a timely and critical discussion on Feudalism in >> Pakistan. Instead of discussing the issue, instead of >> allowing critical voices from within Pakistan to speak, this >> thread was hijacked by our 'uber-patriot' Hindutva >> brigade on this list, and sidetracked into a meaningless and >> irrelevant discussion on faith and conversion, in India, >> while the original posting had nothing to do with faith and >> conversion. >> What should have been an interesting, critical >> conversation on feudalism, or at least the persistence of >> feudal values and mindsets, in Pakistan and South Asia in >> general, had to degenerate into a platform for pious and >> macho Hindutva posturing. >> Till when will people in India think that they >> are some divine exception to the generality of the human >> species, above, beyond criticism and reproach, ready to leap >> at the slightest perceived slight to their fragile >> honour. >> regards, >> Shuddha >> >> >> >> >> >> On 09-Aug-09, at 8:00 AM, Rahul Asthana >> wrote: >> >> " >> What forces must cohere to enable a just peace to emerge in >> a democratic Kashmir in the foreseeable >> future?"And >> so the analysis of Richard Shapiro ensues.POK or PCK >> whatever one may choose to call it,is never mentioned. Nor >> is Pakistan's role in fomenting terrorism in Indian >> Kashmir and India finds a mention. Pakistan,it seems,in his >> opinion, doesn't have anything to do to enable "a >> just peace to emerge in a democratic Kashmir in the >> foreseeable future".Even >> Junaid ignored my question about whether he things only >> India is the occupying nation or he holds Pakistan too as >> one.(If he replied then I missed it.)I fail to understand >> why Pakistan gets a free pass. >> --- >> On Sun, 8/9/09, Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> wrote: >>  From: >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta Subject: >> Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections >> onTo: >> "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" Cc: >> "Sarai Reader List" Date: >> Sunday, August 9, 2009, 4:04 AMDear >> All, >> Apologies >> for having to make this minor, but notinsignificant  clarification. >> The phrase 'United States of Nigeria' usedin >> my  previous >> posting should read as the 'United States ofMexico'. >> 'The  Federation >> of Nigeria' (invoked in the next sentence) isthe >> correct  form >> of the state in Nigeria. >> The >> devil (some say the divine) is in the details. >> best >> Shuddha >> >> >> On >> 09-Aug-09, at 2:07 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> wrote: >>  Dear >> Sanjay, Kshmendra, Junaid, Inder, Dear all, >> I >> have read with care the post forwarding Professor >> Richard >> Shapiro's essay >> on the situation in Kashmir (originally >> circulated >> on South Asia >> Citizens Web). I looked very carefully to see if >> there >> were indeed >> any 'sweeping generalizations'  and >> 'misrepresentations', >> as Kshmendra >> insists this essay has embedded within it, I >> also >> looked for >> any evidence of 'anti India biases and >> prejudices', >> and I have to say >> that i found none. >> Shuddhabrata >> SenguptaThe >> Sarai Programme at CSDSRaqs >> Media Collectiveshuddha at sarai.netwww.sarai.netwww.raqsmediacollective.net >> >> _________________________________________reader-list: >> an open discussion list on media and thecity.Critiques >> & CollaborationsTo >> subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith >> subscribe in the subject header.To >> unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List >> archive: >> >> >> >> >>  Shuddhabrata >> SenguptaThe Sarai Programme at >> CSDSRaqs Media Collectiveshuddha at sarai.netwww.sarai.netwww.raqsmediacollective.net >> >> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From shuddha at sarai.net Sun Aug 9 13:57:42 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 13:57:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on In-Reply-To: References: <625900.47326.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <809FC697-1125-42C2-8BA2-A7E5E83E4EB5@sarai.net> Dear Junaid, Thank you for an excellent and thoughtful post ! A sea change from the usual rhetorical grandstanding on Kashmir that we have become accustomed to on this list. It is the articulation of expressions like this in public fora that I think can help lay the foundations of a better tomorrow for Kashmir, and for all of South Asia. You say - "It can sound funny when people ask "Would gay people have their rights in an independent Kashmir?" or "Would minorities be not only protected but have equal rights as the majorities?," when the people these questions are asked of don't even know if *they* have a right to life (with dignity) in Kashmir, when the rigorously grinding everyday life under the military occupation doesn't even allow its people a chance to ponder upon their situation. Yet, at some stage or the other, if solidarities are to be built, if new alliances are to be created, if the Azadi in the real sense has to be achieved, these questions have to find some answers in Kashmir's resistance struggle." I both agree with you and differ with you on this formulation. I agree that "if new alliances are to be created, if the Azadi in the real sense has to be achieved, these questions have to find some answers in Kashmir's resistance struggle." But I do not think that these questions can be put off till a hypothetical 'some stage' in the struggle. I do not think these questions are more important than the goal of ending the occupation, but I do not think they are less important either. And I also do not believe that there is any contradiction in holding on to both desires (to end the occupation and to voice these concerns), simultaneously. I believe that these questions have an urgency, and that they actually in some ways subtly determine the destiny of the struggle for peace and freedom, in a real and substantive sense. Time and time again, movements that have thought of themselves as 'liberatory' or 'emancipatory' have fallen into the trap of creating a hierarchy of " lesser and greater" goals. Many Communists believed that freedom was a luxury that would have to wait till the goal of Justice was achieved, and this ensured that they were able to achieve neither freedom, nor justice, wherever they came to power. Zionists believed that the question of creating a relationship with the people of Palestine was a lesser priority to the immediate (and very real) suffering of Jewish people in Europe and elsewhere, and as a result, they created a state which is in effect a huge prison camp (both for themselves, and for their 'other'). Indian nationalists subordinated the question of thinking about society and culture to the 'goal' of political independence, and when they did, the came up with remarkably un-imaginative and repressive ideas, and the result is plain for all of us to see. I believe that it is absolutely vital, that especially when people are facing, as you say, the 'rigorous grind of everyday life' under an occupation, that intellectuals and activists, and ordinary people are brought face to face with the consequences of not paying attention to basic and fundamental questions. The 'strategic pragmatism' that many political activists seek to impose as a code of silence, in the end, becomes the foundation of future oppression. I also do not believe that these questions 'take care of themselves' due to the innate character or a people, or the broad, inclusive nature of their inherited traditions. Character and tradition are fragile, easily twisted. The cultivation of liberty is a daily, quotidian, modest, but vital task, and cannot be left to the abstraction of a people's character. Every assumption of innocence on behalf of the oppressed, is a sure condition of its opposite, when the oppressed find the chance to be oppressors. I totally agree with you however, when you say - "Perhaps the best way to rebuild bridges is to unconditionally accept and acknowledge each other's pain and sufferring. That Pandits accept and acknowledge the Kashmir's need to be independent, and Muslims accept the right of Pandit's to live with dignity, security and as full members of our nation (even if they don't support or participate in Kashmir's freedom struggle). Along with other minorities Kashmiri Pandits have the first right to ask of Kashmiri resistance to become sensitive to and acknowledge their needs of security and dignity. If the future independent Kashmir has to move in pursuit of the goals that we have laid out then the time to intervene is now!" Yes, the time to intervene is now! I would reiterate that the cogent expression of a 'Freedom Charter' for Kashmir would be a great step forward. We have discussed this (though not on public fora) some months before, but in the light of Professor Shapiro's text, it might be worthwhile to recall the substantive points of that discussion for the benefit of the Reader List. I hope you will permit me to take the liberty of posting salient points from an earlier round of correspondence. It would be excellent if a publicly circulated charter for a Kashmir that is truly 'Azaad' were to state that : 1. it would be a state that would provide equal rights to the members of all kinds of minorities, (ethnic, religious, social, sexual and other), 2. that it would harbour peaceful intentions towards all neighbouring peoples (in India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Tibet, Central Asia and China) and that it would declare Kashmir as a demilitarized zone and as a sanctuary of peace 3. that it would take the bold step of doing away with the obscenity of a standing army 4. that it would welcome all displaced Kashmiris (including, not only the Kashmiri Pandits, but also those who were forced to migrate to Pakistan Occupied Kashmir) and that it calls for an open dialogue with responsible and peace-loving representatives of all displaced kashmiri communities 5. that it would set up a 'truth and reconciliation' commission to help account for and address the years of violence in Kashmir 5. that it would treat with respect, pride and affection the unique cultural heritage and history of the Kashmir valley, and the contributions made by Buddists, Hindus, Muslims and others to this heritage down the centuries, 6. and that it would take a special care to safeguard the unique biological and natural heritage of the mountains, rivers, forests, lakes and meadows of Kashmir for the sake of all humanity If a document that spelt out these points clearly, while outlining the moves that can be made towards a free plebiscite under international auspices were to be clearly spelt out today, it can make a real and fundamental difference to the destiny of the movement in Kashmir. The old preconditions for a plebisicte that were articulated by the UN are no longer relevant to the situation. The terms of reference have to expand a choice beyond the choice between accession to either India or Pakistan, and BOTH Indian and Pakistani military personnel should be confined to barracks, or better still, asked to vacate the territories occupied by them in the disputed state. Such a document could say that the continuing occupation of Kashmir, especially by the Indian armed forces and state paramilitary and police forces, and the continued existence of laws such as the AFSPA and the lack of responsible international mediation is a stumbling block in the realization of these demands, and that these conditions be transformed, the occupation be lifeted, so that a free, demilitarized and peaceful Kashmir (with no armies) can come into being. I think that the important point is not whether or not this is a 'pragmatic' and 'achievable' set of goals, but that it sets the standards and the criteria by which 'prgamatic' moves may be judged and evaluated. If people (be they in Kashmir, or in India, or in Pakistan) object to the goals of such a charter, they will only reveal their true character. For all you know, all the reactionaries in India, Pakistan and Kashmir may be together on this, and all others (cutting across 'national' and 'identitarian' lines) may be arrayed against them. best, Shuddha Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 9 14:42:13 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 02:12:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on In-Reply-To: <5c5369880908080855v4ca4348doaef117f41fede956@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <766048.24071.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Sanjay   No one asked you (to start with) to agree or disagree with my 'summary dismissals' of Shapiro's essay.   No one 'charged' you with anything in this case.   You wanted 'clarifications' from me. Why are you getting agitated on being asked to state your position?   Since I have not presented any arguments, you might want to check whether your usage of the word 'sophistry'  was correct.   "Engagement" becomes unlikely when you start referring to the person you were conversing with in third person because the interaction is not proceeding exactly as you would have liked it to.    Kshmendra     --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Sanjay Kak wrote: From: Sanjay Kak Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on To: "Kshmendra Kaul" Cc: "Sarai Reader List" Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 9:25 PM Even by the standards of sophistry that the Sarai list is plagued by, these questions set a new bar. Kshemendra makes a series of summary statements in dismissing a text that appears on the list. He is politely asked to expand those summary dismissals in the general interest. He has promised to do so when time allows him. Fair enough. But in the interim, those who have asked for such helpful clarifications—and I am one of them—must react to the summary dismissals. That is the problem at hand, sir: we await a clarification of the charge, before we can agree or disagree with it! Indeed, sir, as Falstaff may have said, some clever punditry is afoot! Best Sanjay On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 8:13 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: Dear Sanjay   "Engaging" with rantings with prejudice and bias embedded in them is at most times foolish venturing.   That is a "by-the-way" comment. A phrase often used in Kashmir which Shapiro would not know about just as he knows little about Kashmir other than through regurgitated Anti-India propaganda. By-the-way.   As I told Junaid, I will elaborate on my "summary dismissal" when time allows me.   But I would like to understand from you too:   - Is it your position that Richard Shapiro has NOT made any 'sweeping generalisations' and 'misrepresentations'?   - Is it your position that Richard Shapiro's essay does NOT make evident any (Anti-India) 'prejudice and bias'?   As you would have read, Inder Salim has already drawn attention to some of the critical flaws and comments arising from engaging in half-truths by Shapiro in his essay.   Kshmendra   --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Sanjay Kak wrote: From: Sanjay Kak Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on To: "Kshmendra Kaul" Cc: "Sarai Reader List" Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 7:07 PM Apologies for the lack of clarity in my comment: I meant an engagement with the arguments made in the Richard Shapiro piece on Kashmir. And obviously an engagement which leaves out—for the moment—who his spouse may be, or what her thoughts on Kashmir are. Best Sanjay On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Sanjay > You suggest 'serious engagement'. > > With whom? > > Kshmendra > --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Sanjay Kak wrote: > > From: Sanjay Kak > Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on > To: "Sarai Reader List" > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 8:45 PM > > Yes, I do agree with Junaid that Kshemendra Kaul should engage with > Richard Shapiro's arguments, rather than summarily dismiss them... > I just received a fwd about the Shapiro piece where Kshemendra's > dismissal has already become a venerable quotation for Aalok! > > Before it becomes graven in stone, we all look forward to a serious > engagement. > In the spirit of this Reader List, if nothing else! > Sanjay Kak > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > Date: Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 8:01 PM > Subject: -=Kashmir-Interchange=- Requesting KP intellect - Please > respond toRichard Shapiro > To: KPNetwork , > kashmir-interchange at googlegroups.com, kp-middleeast at yahoogroups.co.in > > > Without any doubt there is a Bank of Intellect that exists amongst > KPs, even though it might not be reflected in such habitual > 'Hate-Mongers' who while not contributing anything productive to this > world only do harm to the KPs and to India. > This request is for the KP Bank of Intellect and not the 'Hate-Mongers'. > > Reproduced below is a piece by Richard Shapiro "A Just Peace in > Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change" > > As can be seen after a read, the article (as someone described it): >        "...is replete with prejudice, bias, ill-concieved presumptions > and mis-constructed deductions. > The sweeping generalisations he makes and his misrepresentations > bordering on outright lies are only to be expected with his more than > evident prejudice and bias." > > Richard Shapiro is "Chair and Associate Professor, Department of > Social and Cultural Anthropology at the California Institute of > Integral Studies in San Francisco. (CIIS)" > > Shapiro is reported as being the spouse of Angana Chatterji who is > "Professor of Social and Cultural Anthropology at California Institute > of Integral Studies (CIIS)". > > Those who know about Angana Chatterji's  'work' will immediately > recognise not only the connections but also the commonality of > attitudes towards India  and Kashmir. > > The KP Bank of Intellect is requested to suitably and through > appropiate forums counter the 'case' being presented by Richard > Shapiro. > > Again, the "Hate-Mongers" are requested not to try and essay responses > to Shapiro because both their intellectual bankruptcy, ill-informed > and compartmentalised world-view and foolish attitudes will be > counter-productive. > > > ...... aalok aima > > > > South Asia Citizens Web > > > > "A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics of Change" > > > > Tuesday, 4 August 2009 > > > > RICHARD SHAPIRO > > > > sacw.net > > > > > > What are the various roles that diverse constituencies must play to > facilitate political processes that undo militarization and > subjugation in Indian administered Kashmir? How can systemic > structures that institutionalize violence, cultural annihilation, > economic impoverishment, and political disempowerment be countered > through non-violent, ethical resistance? What alliances are necessary > to allow hope for overcoming cycles of oppression and breaking with > histories of domination? How can international, national, and local > actors and institutions work together to disrupt socially unnecessary > suffering and ameliorate the conditions of existence? What forces must > cohere to enable a just peace to emerge in a democratic Kashmir in the > foreseeable future? > > > > > > Numerous obstacles present tremendous challenges to movements for > social justice. The current world order is predicated on systems of > inequality that hierarchically divide countries, peoples, cultures, > classes, genders, sexualities, ethnicities, and faith traditions to > the benefit of the few and the detriment of the many. Dominant powers > prescribe the rules of the game to their advantage and utilize > knowledge, technology, and markets to structure social relations in > their interests. The new global order presents itself as the best of > all possible worlds in which sovereign nation-states organized through > representative democracy, rule of law, free markets with government > regulation, Enlightenment rationality, and human rights are promised > as the solution to the problems of poverty, war, ecological > devastation, genocide, and terrorism. > > > > > > This dominant narrative of progress through the spread of capitalism > organized in nation-states and guided by knowledge has attained > hegemony as it has captured the imagination of postcolonial nations > like India. Postcolonial nations have largely reproduced the > structures of colonial oppression and organized themselves to become > players in the existing global order as militarized, > hyper-masculinized, nuclear powers measuring their worth on the basis > of GDP (Gross Domestic Product). Emerging middle-classes of massive > proportion in postcolonial nations like India buttress this process of > nation building that mirrors and enforces dynamics of globalization > through the production of unparalleled poverty, massive and multiple > dislocations, genocide of indigenous peoples, ecological disaster, and > abundant psychological malaise. India is embraced by the international > community, meaning largely the United States and Western Europe, > precisely because it marches in step with the new world order. India > amasses great cultural capital as “the world’s largest democracy” in > spite of the fact that it is home to 40% of the worlds most > economically destitute, and seeks to constitute itself as a nation > through policies that disregard the needs of the vast majority of its > population. > > > > > > India is inventing nothing new in its self-constitution as a powerful > nation-state. National identity is being fabricated through the > equation of India with Hindus, in blatant form in entities like the > RSS and BJP, and in more subtle form in the Congress and progressive > Indian citizens for whom nationalism linked to ’Hindu cultural > reassertion’ is an unreflective response to a colonial past. The > equation of Hinduism (unity in diversity) and Christianity with > tolerance for difference, and Islam with terrorism, backwardness, and > fanaticism, functions as a global trope supportive of unleashing > disproportionate violence on Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, and > Palestine, as well as within the territory of India in Gujurat, > Orissa, and in the ’disputed territory’ of Kashmir. India forms itself > as nation with unexamined Hindu majoritarianism at its base, just as > unexamined Christian cultural dominance organizes the United States, > rendering explorations of the links between religionization, > nationalism and particular secularisms close to impossible. India is > also typical in its self-formation as nation in fashioning internal > and external enemies as crucial to defining itself, and > super-exploiting its most proximate ’others’ to fuel its prosperity. > European nations had the Jew as internal enemy. The United States is > founded on the backs of its twin others - enslaved Africans and > massacred Native Americans. > > > > > > India has as its main ’internal other’ the Muslim, who can take no > solace in also occupying the role as external enemy in India’s > dominant narrative. This double site is what the state uses to > legitimate the brutalization of the Kashmiri people. Firstly, there is > India’s need for a majority Muslim state within its borders to > legitimate itself as a progressive, pluralistic, secular nation. > Without a Muslim majority state within India, India cannot as easily > legitimate itself as a progressive member of the new global order. > Secondly there is India’s need to establish national identities that > take precedence over regional, local, traditional identities. As a > nation, India is in the process of seeking: (1) to establish > territorial dominion over the current boundaries of the nation, (2) > attain a monopoly on the means of violence, and (3) organize human and > natural resources to enhance the productivity and power of the nation. > Every nation that has achieved the normative status of modern > democracy has utilized sustained and prolific violence to realize > these three imperatives and in the process establish its identity. > India is in a very vulnerable moment in this process as is evident > from an examination of the myriad territories and forces fighting for > autonomy in some form from the Indian state. Part of the strategy to > foster national identity, simultaneous to providing very little to the > vast majority of its population, and in fact fostering mal-development > that impoverishes and displaces poor, rural ’citizens’, is to > fabricate an ’us’ that must protect itself from ’them’. Without > internal enemies India cannot unify itself as a nation. > > > > > > This internal enemy is also resolutely claimed as integral to India. > The state and its loyal subjects repeat the same refrain: ’Kashmir is > an integral part of India.’ ’Kashmir is integral to India.’ Kashmir is > the other that is integral to the self, a difference that is integral > to the identity of India. How then does India treat this other, this > integral difference? To debase, devalue, disrespect, destroy the > people, culture, history, land, waters, aspirations, imaginations, > passions, thoughts, of this other that is claimed as integral to self > reveals much about India’s current state of existence. What other > measure is available to us to assess ourselves as ethical entities > than how we treat the other, how we engage the differences to which we > are ethically obliged to respond? What nation has satisfactorily > answered to this call? If a day arrives when Kashmir is ’a nation unto > itself’, independent and sovereign, an equal to all other nations, > will Kashmir point the nation-state in a new direction? Will the > differences integral to Kashmir be respected, affirmed, heard and > engaged? Will ’the other’ be the call to ’the self’ to practice > hospitality? Will the Gujur, the village woman who buried loved ones > and waits in silence for words of/from other loved ones, the atheist, > the ardent believer, the Shia, the Sufi, the pundit, the Buddhist, the > differently abled, the homosexual, the beggar, the prostitute, be > welcomed as participants in constructing a nation that will be ’a > light unto other nations’? Will the other be welcomed without the > demand or structural incentive to assimilate, to mirror/mimic > dominance to be recognized as human? These questions are too much, > perhaps even unfair. Yet, is it not necessary to raise them? > > > > > > Kashmir occupies a literal and imaginary border as inside and outside > of India in ways that structure an impossible predicament. The state > (and its elites and middle-classes) does not trust Kashmiris whose > allegiance is always presumed to lie with Pakistan as an Islamic > Republic, thus denying Kashmiris the rights of citizens of India, > while asserting the inviolability of its sovereignty over Kashmir as a > secular, democratic nation governed by equality under rule of law. The > distrust legitimates military rule organized through special laws as > necessary to provide law and order as a matter of internal security. > Thus, on the basis of being part of a democratic state, the rights > granted citizens of such a state are denied to Kashmiris. Inclusion in > nation is coupled with dispossession from historical memory, rights, > and life. India legitimates its mistreatment through a logic > originating with European nation-states. This denial of civil and > human rights, rule of law, and the freedoms of citizenship to > Kashmiris is because the state must protect itself from forces within > itself that threaten its character as a lawful, democratic nation. > India must violate what is most inviolable, through a state of > exception (the use of law to suspend law as definitive of > sovereignty), to protect itself. The discourse requires the allegiance > of the Kashmiri people to India, as proof that Kashmiris are not what > the nation suspects - traitors and terrorists, as precondition to > access to the rights of citizenship. These same rights of citizenship > provided by the nation, while denied to Kashmiris, are used by India > to justify its claims to being a legitimate state entitled to act as > it does in Kashmir. As a legitimate state, India is predicated on > civil rights and rule of law that it may legitimately suspend in the > name of national security. Kashmiris must align with India given this > legitimacy, while living as subjects without rights in so far as the > state defines them as a threat to its sovereignty. India must violate > what gives it legitimacy in order to protect itself from the internal > enemy integral to it. India must destroy itself to protect itself. The > state of exception produces a state of autoimmunity. India is also > asserting itself as superior to other regional nation-states, and an > emerging player in relation to Western Europe and the United States. > Like other powerful democracies, India is entitled to do whatever is > necessary to fight terrorism and strengthen itself as a powerful, > sovereign, capitalist nation, aligned with the movement of progress > (dominance). > > > > > > Kashmiris are placed in a situation where allegiance to India as > prerequisite to participation in a lawful democracy involves > allegiance to a state that has no rational basis to demand or expect > allegiance from the people of Kashmir. India needs to exaggerate the > degree of cross-border infiltration and armed Islamist militancy to > rationalize 500,000+ troops, blurred boundaries between police and > army, and massive intervention in daily life through systematic > surveillance, land seizures, checkpoints, torture, disappearances, > gendered and sexualized violence, fake encounter deaths and countless > daily humiliations calculated to break the spirit of the Kashmiri > people. This reality is currently resisted through mass > demonstrations, regular protests, strategic use of elections, > strategic boycott of elections, navigating restrictions on ’free > press’, civil society mobilizations, legal cases, an International > Tribunal, and regular acts of dignity, courage, and faith that > characterize the present in Kashmir. India demonstrates the persona > all too common in the ’league of nations’ - to act with impunity and > disregard for international law and local demands for justice. India > uses this fiction of the Kashmiri as existing in the shadowy space of > inside/outside the nation to legitimate an occupation that ignores the > historical particularity of Kashmir and the promises made to the > people of Kashmir to determine its own future. The plight of Kashmiri > pundits also becomes an opportunity for the state to legitimate > regularized violence and systematic oppression of Kashmiris. Were all > Kashmiris, whether currently residing in the state of Jammu/Kashmir or > elsewhere, to be given voice to express their will, free from > coercion, retribution, and manipulation, the outcome would not be in > doubt. > > > > > > Kashmir is the longest standing disputed area in the United Nations, > the most militarized spot on earth, and a drain on the hopes for > prosperity, peace and freedom for people throughout the subcontinent, > and the world. There is no moving toward peaceful coexistence between > India and Pakistan, no stabilization of the region, no possibility for > global nuclear disarmament, no hope for forms of development that > prioritize sustainability and cultural survival over militarization, > urbanization, and middle-class consumerism, no space for the > impossible healing through mourning/memorializing the trauma of > Partition, without granting self-determination to the people of > Kashmir. > > > > > > The realization of that which is demanded by rationality in service of > justice and emancipation is always against the odds. In relation to > Kashmir, a more peaceful future requires at least four interrelated > movements: (1) Massive, non-violent, ethical dissent within Kashmiri > civil society must continue and expand, attentive to alliances that > build stronger relations between men and women, youth and adults, > various faith communities, urban and rural, rich and poor, > facilitative of inclusive forms of polity that enable a diverse, > pluralistic movement for freedom. (2) Leadership must form a unified > coalition that activates and learns from the multiple constituencies > that make up Kashmiri society. Divergent desires and imaginations > regarding the future of Kashmir should be encouraged and discussed, > outside the search for homogeneity or conformity. A Kashmir free of > subjugation should enable multiple forms of life through participatory > democracy, just governance, and economic practice promoting health, > education, and individual and collective prosperity. Natural > resources, like water, should be both safeguarded, and utilized for > sustainable development. Cultural heritage should be understood as an > inheritance of all Kashmiris to fashion a unique society nurturing > hospitality, innovation, and multicultural polity. (3) Education and > mobilization to shift public opinion in India must be undertaken > throughout civil society to expand pressure on the Indian state. > Citizen delegations from the various states and communities of India > must visit Kashmir to learn first hand about the atrocities, > resistances, hopes, and concerns prevalent in Kashmir. Such > delegations must bring their new understandings to their > neighborhoods, schools, workplaces, and places of worship to > facilitate discussion and reflection that expand the voices of those > who demand that illegal and immoral action in Kashmir done in their > name immediately cease. Institutions in India must sponsor delegations > from Kashmir, composed of diverse peoples who constitute Kashmiri > society, to share the realities they have suffered and the need for > alliance toward justice. Hindu faith communities must forge > relationships with social justice movements in civil society in > Kashmir to oppose Hindu majoritarian dominance and insist that the > Indian state demilitarize the state of Jammu & Kashmir, become > accountable to international agreements, rule of law, and human rights > as the first step on the road to affirming the right of Kashmir to > self-determination. Universities and the press must play a strong role > in addressing the history and present of Kashmir to empower students > and the citizenry of India to participate as informed members of a > democratic republic, whose resources and conscience are systematically > misused and violated by their government. (4) International > solidarities from citizens, governmental and non-governmental > organizations, students, workers, professionals, public intellectuals, > faith communities, and all interested parties must be organized to > educate, inform, advocate, and mobilize for the liberation of Kashmir. > International institutions must be both utilized and strengthened as > legitimate sites able to hold nation-states legally accountable for > their actions. Research, education, and publication on the reality of > present-day Kashmir and its modern history must be supported by and > within universities, think tanks, and civil society forums. Campuses > must become sites where students mobilize themselves to exert public > pressure to ethically resolve the situation in Kashmir. Resistance in > all four ’sites’ must struggle to establish alliances, clarify goals, > mobilize resources, deconstruct desires, and carve out space where > different forms of polity and community, promoting ethical dissent, > may live. > > > > > > To commit to these practices secures no guarantees. The process must > draw from the resolve of Kashmiris to struggle for justice and > strengthen this resolve through principled alliance that breaks the > isolation and despair that accompanies any people subjected to brutal > mistreatment. The multiple legacies that inspire and haunt us must > become the very sustenance that, through sharing, nurtures our > struggle. Allow me to conclude by drawing from a source common to the > three Abrahamic traditions, and of universal relevance in the present, > Deuteronomy 16:20, Justice, Justice, You Shall Pursue. > > > > > > (Richard Shapiro is Chair and Associate Professor, Department of > Social and Cultural Anthropology at the California Institute of > Integral Studies in San Francisco.) > > http://www.sacw.net/article1090.html > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ > Websites: http://shehjar.kashmirgroup.com >                 http://kashmirgroup.com >                 http://www.indocommunity.us > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "KashmirInterchange" group. > Disclaimer: Views and opinions expressed are only of the persons > posting the mail and not of the Owner/Moderator of Kashmir-Interchange > group and will not be responsible for the contents. > To post to this group, send email to Kashmir-Interchange at googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > Kashmir-Interchange-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/Kashmir-Interchange?hl=en > -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 9 15:11:22 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 02:41:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <817447.39484.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Junaid   Thank you for articulating so very sensitively your thoughts on Shapiro's essay and those provoked by Shapiro's essay.   Kshmendra --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Junaid wrote: From: Junaid Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on To: "Kshmendra Kaul" , reader-list at sarai.net Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 1:21 PM Dear Shuddha, Kshmendra, Rahul, Inder, and Sanjay,   Richard Shapiro's essay is important to me more for how it invokes various challenges and questions that the Kashmiri resistance needs to address, than his analysis of the way Indian state has evolved and its relationship with Kashmir. (I might, however, hasten to add that I agree completely with Shapiro's analysis of the evolution of the Indian state, turning of its identity--as Bhabha or Fanon could have called it--into a 'mimic' state, and the Hindu subjectivity that forms the "unconcious" of its preponderant nationalism. But I will let Kshmendra--whenever time allows him--refute Shapiro's arguments on this, or give reasons for his characterization of the essay as "replete with prejudice, bias, ill-concieved presumptions and mis-constructed deductions.")   Some of these questions that touch upon, in a deep sense, the fundamental and substantive issues of democracy and liberty, or even the questions of the meaning and the dignity of life, of new ways of being with the nature and the world, have to be posed and answered by the resistance movements around the world. I do believe with Shuddha, and I have discussed with him before, that Kashmiri resistance needs to be reconceptualised, and instead of simply demanding a state that "mimics the mimic," it needs to create a new idiom, a new paradigm. It should seek to create a new society--and, of course, an independent state--which may not have already achieved the Ideal, but must have a template for such a pursuit.     Shuddha has brilliantly encapsulated these challenges in his response, while Inder too hinted at some of them. These questions, that the Third World nationalisms have miserably failed to answer themselves, and the disenchanted from the yesteryears' colonized are now asking, with a lot of hope, of the new resistance movements, have not yet taken enough root in Kashmir. It can sound funny when people ask "Would gay people have their rights in an independent Kashmir?" or "Would minorities be not only protected but have equal rights as the majorities?," when the people these questions are asked of don't even know if they have a right to life (with dignity) in Kashmir, when the rigorously grinding everyday life under the military occupation doesn't even allow its people a chance to ponder upon their situation. Yet, at some stage or the other, if solidarities are to be built, if new alliances are to be created, if the Azadi in the real sense has to be achieved, these questions have to find some answers in Kashmir's resistance struggle.          It's a big burden on Kashmir's bruised shoulders but resistance needs to make it its natural component. I do believe that Kashmir will be a vastly different society than what India or Pakistan have turned out to be. (And, I am not saying everyone in India or Pakistan thinks, or is, the same, or that there are no pockets of active resistance, and hopes of a better society in either of them---I am speaking of the "mainstream" norms, behaviours, and aspirations of the Indian and Pakistani states and nationalists). I strongly believe that Kashmiris are a forward-looking nation--a hope for a better future feeds its will--than one which seeks legitimacy from a past, especially a constructed one. Although, we have many histories and memories, and narratives of the past, but these don't inform our resistance. Kashmiris did not dig up a Lazaar or make a "Discovery" of Kashmir; if they spoke or had stories of the past, they were not ones about Lalityaditya or Avantivarman, or Zainul Abidin or Yusuf Shah Chak, but of Habba Khatun, Nund Reshi and Lal Ded. Kashmiris have been in active resistance since 1931, and different parties have had their flags and icons, but Kashmiri nationalism has had no flag or an iconograpy. Its nationalism is not dependent on them, and yet I think an overwhelming majority of Kashmiris see themselves and, act as, a nation. This nationalism is based on idea of solidarity to achieve legitimate goals. That entire Kashmir protests when two women are raped and murdered is a show of solidarity (instead of a show of "fundamentalism" that many in India characterise their fight for justice as). I agree with Shapiro when he speaks of the tactical moves that Kashmiris make in their everyday struggle as quite rational.   Azadi, then, is not a struggle for some "glorious" past, but a hope for a better future. Azadi is unambiguously a struggle for national independence but also for liberation. Azadi is always in the future, always-to-come, in a Derridian sense. Which makes a constant struggle for a better, newer life, not only a possibility, but also a need. A future Kashmiri state, I hope, will not be a state that sees the Westphalian state system as a model, or mimics its erstwhile occupiers or colonizers, but probably in true Marxian sense will wither away under pressure from a constant struggle of its citizens.       I believe, however, that there is a need for a startegic and a tactical support that the Kashmiri resistance needs. The disenchanted and the hopeful in India and Pakistan need to build bridges with the Kashmiri resistance. The critique of the resistance and the occupation cannot be the same. We do need to keep in constant check and under vigil demagogues in the resistance movement, and deflate and curtail their reactionary rhetoric and behaviour, but we must neither lose sight of, nor do it at the cost of, the deeply ethical dimension and the noble goals of a common Kashmiri's struggle for independence and liberation.    @Rahul: I do believe that if people living in Pakistan-controlled-Kashmir want to be united with the Indian-controlled-Kashmir and live as a united independent Kashmir, they have every right to do so. There are many people there who have, despite, Pakistani suppression, expressed this desire and need, and I extend my full solidarity to them. They have an equal right of self-determination as the Kashmiris in the Indian-controlled-Kashmir. Recent Pakistani noises of "Independent Kashmir" are a welcome sign, but I am not sure if Pakistan Govt has really undergone a change of heart over Kashmir. But I do believe that most Pakistanis would welcome an independent Kashmir if India allowed that to happen.    And I do think that a peaceful transition of Kashmir to independence will release immense intellectual and social forces in the subcontinent which will ultimately dissolve superficial and ill-conceived structures of thought and action, characterized by militarisation, nuclearization, war-rhetoric, externally, and hatred, otherisation, and communalism, internally, in both India and Pakistan. I do think an independent Kashmir will usher in an era of peace, stability, and prosperity in the entire Southasia, unlike the catastrophic scenarios some of the Indian intelligentsia have created.    At this point, let me tell my Pandit friends this: Your narratives of your pain and suffering, and our narratives of our pain and suffering are unfortunately growing away and apart. We started at a point where we empathised with each other, we understood each other's language of pain, but we have reached a point where we don't even acknowledge each other's existence, forget about pain and suffering. Muslims of Kashmir now rarely talk about Pandits, as if they don't exist anymore. The daily existential struggle that living under occupation is, leaves no time for reminiscing. Pandits have become so habituated to life out of their home, that memories of home have remained frozen in a single moment--the 1990. Whatever happened to the home, and the home's other children has has gone unregistered. Some of us have started speaking a language of religious extremism, some of you now speak a language of right-wing Hindu nationalism. If asked, most Kashmiri Muslims want Pandits to come home. There is no way to express or articulate it though. But some of you say that that expression has to be the acceptance of Indian sovereignty over their lives. Muslims think the annihilation of their struggle and, effectively of their national life, is a condition which is utterly unacceptable. I do think that not everything has been lost. If only truth was allowed to come out.    Perhaps the best way to rebuild bridges is to unconditionally accept and acknowledge each other's pain and sufferring. That Pandits accept and acknowledge the Kashmir's need to be independent, and Muslims accept the right of Pandit's to live with dignity, security and as full members of our nation (even if they don't support or participate in Kashmir's freedom struggle).    Along with other minorities Kashmiri Pandits have the first right to ask of Kashmiri resistance to become sensitive to and acknowledge their needs of security and dignity. If the future independent Kashmir has to move in pursuit of the goals that we have laid out then the time to intervene is now!   Junaid          On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: Dear Junaid   Sure I will elaborate on my comments made on Richard Shapiro's essay when time allows me.   You seem to have read the essay and it would seem you disagree with my characterisation of the essay. Is that so?   So that I can better address your request, would you please clarify the following:   - Is it your position that Richard Shapiro has NOT made any 'sweeping generalisations' and 'misrepresentations'?   - Is it your position that Richard Shapiro's essay does NOT make evident any (Anti-India) 'prejudice and bias'?   Kshmendra --- On Thu, 8/6/09, Junaid wrote: From: Junaid Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on To: 425063.70526.qm at web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com, reader-list at sarai.net Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 9:38 PM Hi Kshmendra, You have described Prof. Shapiro's essay as "replete with prejudice, bias, ill-concieved presumptions and mis-constructed deductions". Could you actually elaborate and give reasons for your characterization of the essay. Junaid _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From yasir.media at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 15:20:05 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?eWFzaXIgftmK2Kcg2LPYsQ==?=) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 14:50:05 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism and terrorism In-Reply-To: References: <4eab87870908062244m2728dach89a52c87927ce509@mail.gmail.com> <5af37bb0908080233ka84bb88we9bb94c286b8d4b0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0908090250m5e4df35pc64b0cb59dcc91e0@mail.gmail.com> dear asad that blog entry is from april. there is an update to this i had posted earlier around 15 July. you are right the media also lost interest at some point. Still it was a happy precedent and ending. however small the victory. Subject: [PR] For the first time in Pakistan's history - feudals are forced to return a village to the peasants From: Najma Sadeque Date: Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 10:24 PM Dear All, This is hard to believe, and it happened faster than expected, but the Khaskhelis have got their village back. Around midday today (15th July), a couple of concerned ministers and advisers including that skunk, Imtiaz Shaikh, suddenly sent a message they would be coming to the press club. Most of the media were there but surprisingly AAJ, EXPRESS and GEO, who had heavily covered the Khaskelis previously, weren't there today. Many still did not realize that history was being made. -- For the first time in Pakistan's history, a feudal was forced to return a village to the peasants. It was a small miracle. Of course, they smoothed out the language to avoid saying that Varyam was forced to surrender land he had illegally appropriated. They just said he surrendered it, and the govt was giving it to the Khashkelis. The two-man team of one PPP MPA and one PML-F (Pagara) MNA appointed by the Chief Minister to look into the Khaskeli case, came to make the announcement. Imtiaz Shaikh, of course gave the credit to Pir Pagara. There was so much excitement. So much joy on the Khashkelis faces. When the proceedings were over, they immediately picked themselves up and made for the village, as the land deeds are going to be distributed there tomorrow to the individual families 'where they sat'. It will take four days for the final paperwork (those deeds will be in turn be registered). Then some of them will have to come back to Karachi when Justice Rizvi calls them to to wind up the case in court. The shocker was that ('Dr.') Hashem Khaskeli was there too. He was not introduced and he did not introduce himself, and the media never realized that a fugitive was in their midst who should have been arrested on the spot. Only the NGOs and activists knew (and they had to keep quiet), and only Deneb got him on film (and the MNA) to 'guarantee' that the villagers would not be harmed again. It's not over yet. But the next step should be more fun for the activists. But all that later. For now we celebrate this major victory. Regards, Najma --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ This is the People's Resistance Mailing List On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 5:44 AM, asad abbasi wrote: > Dear Yasir, > I did follow this story. It was in limelight for a brief period. But in a > country full of problems, these issues some how find a hiding. Below is a > article speaking about this issue as well as similar issues that have > happened in the past. > I concur with bloggers ironic question "who says feudalism is dead" > > > > > http://sappk.wordpress.com/2009/04/29/khaskhelis-victims-of-feudalism/ > > *An Afghan proverb holds that zar, zan and zameen (gold, woman and land) > are linked to a man’s honour. It is no different in Pakistan’s tribal and > feudal tradition. While women are fighting back and wealth is no longer the > exclusive preserve of a handful, land continues to be the most coveted > element in the lexicon of male honour. Land hunger lies at the root of many > evils. Civilised societies have another perspective. They regard housing, > ‘the crucible for human well-being’, as the fundamental right of man to > enable him to live in peace and dignity. For that he needs land.* > A demonstration of this conflict between the rich man’s greed and the poor > man’s needs has been taking place outside the Karachi Press Club since > mid-March. On display is the confrontation between the evils of avarice, > violence, corruption and brute power, and the children of a lesser god who > are backed by civil society. Nearly 40 — the number rises and falls — men, > women and children, residents of Goth Mohammad Essa Khaskheli (Sanghar > district), have encamped on the pavement to draw public attention to their > plight. > Theirs is a story quite familiar in Pakistan. It is said to be the usual > tale of the powerful out to grab land and evict the weak from their homes. > The scene of action is a small goth spread over 12 acres. The 150 families > who claim to have been settled there for over 40 years now fear for their > lives. > They say their powerful neighbour, landlord Waryam Faqir, who reportedly > owns 10,000 acres (a big jump from the 100 he possessed in 1985) has been > eyeing the little goth. He has all that is required here to have things > going his way — political muscle, economic clout and connections. (He was > convicted of corruption by the accountability court in 2002 and sentenced to > seven years’ rigorous imprisonment with a fine of Rs2m. > But he managed to procure his release much before he completed his term.) > As is not unusual, the landlord appears to have drawn on the might of the > state to promote his designs. A tacit alliance with others of his class and > that cuts across party lines may have helped. The conventional strategy > adopted is to get state land transferred illegally to fictitious names. If > there are people living there, too bad. They can be evicted since they are > poor and their title to the land is at best tenuous. > Take the case of Mr Waryam Faqir’s tussle with the Khaskhelis. The 250 > acres of fertile land where the village is located belongs to the irrigation > department. The Khaskhelis have been trying to get their 12 acres > regularised but in vain. Mr Faqir has apparently enlisted the cooperation of > friends in the right places in his bid to gain control over these 12 acres. > In October 2007, he got the mukhtiarkar to certify ‘no any (sic) village in > the name of Muhammad Essa Khaskheli is located in Deh Bitoor’. > All this happened at a time when the residents of the goth were in > possession of documents to prove that they have been settled there for > decades — their welfare society was registered with the Directorate of > Social Welfare in 1987, they have had electricity connections for 25 years > and telephone facilities since 2000. A number of residents hold NICs, PRCs > and other documents giving their address in the goth. On the Sindh High > Court’s instructions the deputy district officer Sinjhoro ordered an enquiry > in July 2008 which verified the existence of the village. > The latest round has indeed become vicious. It is alleged that the village > has come under attack, false FIRs have been registered and other methods of > intimidation have been resorted to. Despairing of obtaining justice, > Walidad, the elder of the clan, decided to come to Karachi to make his voice > heard. > Initially the Khaskhelis’ presence remained unnoticed until they discovered > a benefactor in Najma Sadeque of Shirkat Gah who mobilised support to > provide the villagers food for sustenance and shelter for the night. They > could not be left to starve to death. The turning point came on April 12 > when Walidad under severe stress because of the threats he was receiving had > a heart attack and passed away. > He accomplished in his death the mission that had brought him to Karachi. > Piler, the Labour Party and Justice (retd) Rashid Rizvi also came to the > rescue of the villagers. The scene changed dramatically. Eight dignitaries, > including ministers, advisers and parliamentarians, visited the protesting > villagers promising them police protection, financial compensation and > justice. The Khaskhelis returned home to bury Walidad. But the promises > remain unfulfilled. A week later, they have returned to the Press Club. > Meanwhile, there are reports that fresh efforts are afoot to show the > Khaskhelis as encroachers. In a desperate bid, they have faxed an appeal for > help to Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry. This is no more just a tussle for > land. At stake also is human dignity and the integrity of a few. Walidad’s > wife wept bitterly pleading for mercy not knowing that this was her right. A > revenue officer who has proved to be a friend of the Khaskhelis because of > his honesty now faces a case filed by Waryam Faqir. > Sixty years ago, Masud Khadarposh, an ICS officer and deputy commissioner > Karachi, penned his famous ‘Note of Dissent’ in the Hari Committee report. > In it he wrote, ‘Peasant proprietorship should replace zamindari’ with the > goal of ‘creating a class of independent self-respecting farmers with > sufficient land to enable them … to better their standards of living’. These > words carry no meaning for a state and society as feudalistic in its mindset > as ours. > Repeated half-hearted attempts at land reforms in 1959, 1972 and 1977 > failed to alleviate the agony of the Khaskhelis and their ilk. > The situation continues to be exactly as described several decades ago by > that great peasant leader of Sindh, Hyder Bakhsh Jatoi. He wrote, ‘The hari > fears the zamindar’s punishment more than he fears the torture of hell, > because he frequently sees the zamindar’s ‘bully’ in action.’Who says > feudalism is dead? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: yasir.media at gmail.com > > Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 14:33:56 +0500 > > To: reader-list at sarai.net > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Feudalism and terrorism > > > > asad, > > > > did you follow the Khaskheli's who were eveicted illegally by a > landlordand > > were camped outside Karachi Press Club for several months, where one of > the > > older men died, and finally with the help of lawyers they got their land > > back. the landlord became a fugitive (varyam faqeer, ran away froma a > court > > which his men stormed in a youtube video froma local tv channel) and pir > > pagaro intervened (as he was his man, to get the land back to the poor > > folk). > > > > This is unheard of. > > > > best > > > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Murali V > wrote: > > > > > Both Terrorism and Feudalism are dangerous weeds which will have to > > > controlled. > > > > > > India also started as a nation with feudal lords generating bonded > labors > > > who had no access to education. INdia has come a long way since then > and > > > the > > > feudal system has almost been cleared and as a result bonded labors. > This > > > has resulted in the rural population having access to primary and > secondary > > > education. There is still a long way to go as far as rural education is > > > concerned, but steps have been continuously taken on this front atleast > in > > > the last 15 years to increase the education infrastructure in the rural > > > areas. > > > > > > Pakistan had also became a nation at the same time, but the focus of > > > Pakistan was constantly on India and to destabilise ,resulting in good > > > funds > > > being diverted to military buildup and promoting militant training > camps to > > > infiltrate into India. > > > > > > Pakistan could well understand the history of India since Indepenence > and > > > suitably modify its programs based on India's experience. > > > > > > More importantly, the education infrastructure should emphasise on > > > non-Madrasa form of education system. > > > > > > Regards, > > > V Murali > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:43 AM, asad abbasi > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > The discourse of feudalism is not only important forPakistan but > perhaps > > > > for South Asia. It requires different intellectuals from various > > > backgrounds > > > > to share their views and input their thoughts. > > > > > > > > It is important, i must say, because the stereotypical image of > Pakistan > > > is > > > > of a terrorist nation. It is generally accepted that elimination of > > > > terrorism from this country will not only benefit Pakistan but the > whole > > > > world. I, on the other hand, beg to differ. Because as i see it , the > > > > stability of Pakistan is greatly affected by other factors including > > > > feudalism as much as it depends on terrorism. > > > > > > > > A farmer in province of Sindh who works from dawn to dusk just so > that he > > > > and his family can survive. Also, that his children will have to be > > > farmers > > > > just like him, because the almighty land lord does not allow children > to > > > > study at the local school.(ie if there is a school at the first > place) > > > > > > > > What will happen if Pakistan with all her resources try to eliminate > > > > terrorism. But somewhere in this process neglects the issue of > feudalism. > > > As > > > > there is no one to watch, feudal lords can only grow in confidence > and > > > may > > > > start abusing the subjects (farmers in this )even more. > > > > > > > > Then Pakistan may have one of the following scenarios in 8-10 years. > > > > > > > > a) Pakistan has no terrorists and no terrorist activity > > > > > > > > b)Pakistan has insignificant amount of terrorist > > > > > > > > c)Pakistan wasted her resources and no damage was done to the hold of > > > > terrorism. > > > > > > > > D) Mixture of any of the above situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moreover, because the resources were diverted of other issues such as > > > > tackling feudalism, Pakistan may end up facing externalities for this > > > > policy. And one side effect can be that, Pakistan will have a > generation > > > of > > > > uneducated, illiterate and deprived people. Some census say that > > > Pakistan > > > > has a literacy ratio of 49%( Even though, i along with so many people > > > with > > > > whom i have had the opportunity to discuss this issue, believe that > this > > > > number is clearly an exaggeration and the ratio can not be more that > 36%) > > > > and it is generally accepted that mostly these people live in urban > > > areas. > > > > If Feudalism prevails, then majority of 51% (or 64% as in the other > case) > > > > will not have the opportunity to educate themselves. Which, and no > sane > > > > person will argue, will bring any country to developmental halt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terrorism is taking lives and destroying places, where as feudalism > is > > > > making lives worse and destroys the privilege of education. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It, my friends, is a important issue and just like terrorism should > be > > > > taken seriously. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Asad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Celebrate a decade of Messenger with free winks, emoticons, display > pics, > > > > and more. > > > > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/ > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > ------------------------------ > Windows Live Messenger: Celebrate 10 amazing years with free winks and > emoticons. Get Them Now > From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Aug 9 16:58:35 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 12:28:35 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] National ID cards could trade privacy for security- 188 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908090428h3a3b7b4ap6d940e9fa4d206a3@mail.gmail.com> http://www.columbiamissourian.com/stories/2009/07/31/identity-cards/ National ID cards could trade privacy for security Friday, July 31, 2009 | 3:11 p.m. CDT BY STUART LOORY Stuart Loory, Lee Hills Chair in Free-Press Studies, Missouri School of Journalism: The government of India wants to keep track of all the people living in that country — all 1.2 billion of them. It plans to issue plastic identity cards with a microchip in each that would contain biometric information about the holder. The information would perhaps contain an eye scan, fingerprints, national status, credit history or criminal records. The idea is to give each Indian a unique identity, one that would not be stolen or used by others. Into that database the government could store anything about everyone. Can it really be kept private, or would this become a goldmine for hackers? This kind of identity card is catching on around the world, used in about 100 countries at present. Is this kind of card a benefit or a problem? Is it true that Indians need to carry as many as 20 different identity cards and will this one replace any of them? Ashok Malik, senior writer, Hindustan Times, Pioneer, New Delhi, India: It will replace almost all those cards, because 20 cards do make the average wallet difficult to carry. Privacy has been a big issue here, as it has been with other countries with such cards. After the terrorist act in Mumbai last year, people do recognize for reasons of security we do need some sort of database. The utility factor is trumping privacy concerns. I appreciate that you are giving Big Brother a lot of information, but they are going to be useful. * Stuart Loory, who holds the Lee Hills Chair in Free-Press Studies at the MU School of Journalism, is the moderator of the weekly radio program "Global Journalist." It airs at 6:30 p.m. Thursdays on KBIA/91.3 FM or at www.globaljournalist.org. Loory: How will they get cards to 1.2 billion people in such remote areas? Malik: They have several databases to start with. India has one of the world’s oldest and most rigorous censuses, conducted every 10 years. It goes into every remote village. The databases are being put together under a new agency, headed by Nandan Nilekani — the Bill Gates of India. He gave up his corporate job to join the government. In three years, he is supposed to get every Indian citizen and resident a unique number. Loory: There is talk of such a card as well in Israel? Dan Izenberg, law reporter, Jerusalem Post, Jerusalem, Israel: There is a law that is ready to be presented to the Knesset at Parliament next week, which would produce a biometric system and databank. It is pretty imminent now. Loory: Is there general consensus that this is a good idea? Izenberg: The press was caught napping because of the way it was done in parliament. Throughout the procedure of preparing and drafting it, the parliamentary committee worked with virtually no discussion about it at all. Most people didn’t know about it until in the last week or two. Loory: Is it felt that this will make security easier? Izenberg: The head of the committee that shepherded this bill through says that 350,000 people, in a country of seven million, have fraudulent identity documents in the current system. Forgery is a simple thing to do here. Loory: In the U.K., there is talk of such cards for people coming into the country? Henry Porter, bureau chief, Vanity Fair, political columnist, Observer, London: Yes. The British ID card is compulsory for residents who were born abroad. This law is three or four years old. Originally, the support was about 61 percent before anyone considered the issues. Now, support is about 79 percent against ID cards. People are making the argument that it is not just about privacy, which is serious anyway; it is about transfer of power from the individual to the state. The state sells to the British people the idea that ID cards are useful to identify themselves, but actually it is a mechanism for the state to identify and monitor people. The central database here will carry a vast amount of information. This can be transferred to various departments, like the tax man. The vast number of people now are against it because they feel they are losing something essential to a free society. Loory: Would the individuals who must have the cards have access to their own data? Porter: Not under our laws. Every possible agency has access to your file, but you do not. Loory: What is the situation in the U.S., and how would Americans feel about such a card? Thompson: We do have national ID numbers, Social Security numbers since the 1930s. There is massive resistance to national ID cards. A law (REAL ID Act) passed four years ago that required all states to have the same information on the card and make them more secure. The states resisted; some filed for extensions. The Department of Homeland Security gave them extensions, and then a big critic of this bill (Janet Napolitano) was made the head of the Department. If terror attacks occur and people believed that a national ID card would prevent that, then there may be some movement that direction. Porter: The Madrid train bombers all had ID cards; the terrorists from 9/11 had ID cards and passports. Identification makes absolutely no difference in somebody’s potential danger as a terrorist. Malik: All of our societies are giving away some of our freedoms in the belief that we are more secure. In London, New Delhi, many other cities, there are cameras all over the place eating away at your privacy for years. Thompson: Henry, your cameras talk to people, they don’t just watch you, right? Porter: We have a big problem with a government that is trying to take a great number of liberties from the people in Britain. It happened stealthily while the boom has been going on. There is a very widespread movement, which is acutely conscious of what is going on, to say that this continues unopposed is wrong. Loory: In this country we already have the cameras, and through our drivers’ licenses, credit cards, bank transactions, our records are all over the place and we have no access to them. Thompson: In the U.S., there is huge resistance to government invasion of privacy. But, when it comes to the private sector and the Internet, we don’t have as many concerns. We don’t care that Google reads all of our e-mails and then sells us ads based on what is in those e-mails. Loory: It seems that if we could get access to the government database ourselves, it would help reverse the invasion of privacy problem. Thompson: In the U.S., due to privacy concerns, you can’t get your own health records, which is frustrating and really bad for patients. Some people say it is much better if everybody could look at everybody’s records. And, if you were to (conceal names) and compile them, people could look for patterns to advance medicine. There are places where giving up some privacy has benefits and America’s concerns about privacy have actually caused problems. Malik: The idea of a national health network is big for the advocates of the national ID cards in India. Porter: In this extraordinarily rapidly developing world, it is crucial that the individual maintains some kind of independence from the state. This is more of a philosophical need than anything about privacy. The reverse is going on in Britain. It is also important to examine the vast amounts of information being scooped up by Yahoo and Google. We have to watch these fragile freedoms that we were born with so they don’t disappear in our lifetimes, and that we can’t hand them on to our children. Loory: Have these issues not come up in Israel because this law has been going through the Knesset by stealth? Izenberg: That’s not the reason. The culture and psychology in Israel is different than the other countries. It is taken for granted that for reasons of security we have to carry these things to identify ourselves. The people against the bill didn’t argue against the need of a smarter ID. They opposed using biometric data and databanks. They were afraid that it might leak. Loory: Do the experts in the U.S. feel this would help enhance security? Thompson: I think people overall think it probably would enhance security, but there is a vocal and intelligent minority that believe that the risks of sabotage and hacking into information could lead to a net undermining of security. Producers of Global Journalist are Missouri School of Journalism graduate students Jared Gassen, Geoff George and Brian Jarvis. The transcriber is Pat Kelley. From pheeta.ram at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 16:58:46 2009 From: pheeta.ram at gmail.com (Pheeta Ram) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 16:58:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 8 In-Reply-To: References: <5bedab660908071049u7ccc0a07xb024734f89a74a41@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5bedab660908090428q6e8e73fam749e712681691358@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh,I apologise for the comment. It wasn't meant for your posts. Regards Pheeta On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 11:23 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Pheeta jee > > More on what? If on right to food, yes we need more. After all, we have > already had enough of time devoted to Hindutva, minority appeasment, BJP, > Congress, Gandhi, Nehru, Pakistan, terrorism. Let us also discuss an issue > which is somewhat away from all these, and whose importance can't be > discarded by any of these, not even terrorists. (That is why even the > Taliban would have to design an economic policy over an area they rule, or > at least provide money and food to the terrorists they train) > > Regards > > Rakesh > From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Aug 9 17:00:53 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 12:30:53 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Govt fund disbursal to get IT empowered- 189 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908090430s338c5dd1nd448f3a7c1178d2a@mail.gmail.com> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/Economy/Policy/Govt-fund-disbursal-to-get-IT-empowered/articleshow/4855461.cms Govt fund disbursal to get IT empowered 4 Aug 2009, 1227 hrs IST, Pankaj Mishra, ET Bureau BANGALORE: The ministry of Panchayati Raj is set to flesh out a technology-led project for transforming its fund distribution system for schemes such as National Rural Employment Guarantee Act (NREGA) as well as other subsidies provided by the ministry of health, as the country seeks to ensure timely and legitimate disbursal of over Rs 90,000 crore across the country. The e-Panchayati Raj Institutions (e-PRI) project is among several mission-mode projects (MMP) being considered by India for breathing life into projects suffering from grassroots-level corruption. The project will involve development of a portal for tracking disbursements made by the ministry of health and NREGA every year. Earlier this year, the ministry had proposed spending Rs 4,240.6 crore over next three years on this project. “Apart from the Planning Commission, several other ministries are interested in this technology-led transformation. Recent criticisms about NREGA’s inefficiencies regarding fund disbursal are among triggers for the government to seek an integrated solution,” said a senior government official involved with the project. He requested anonymity because he is not authorised to speak with media. The CAG in its report last year had criticised the NREGA scheme for delayed payment of wages and non-payment of unemployment allowance at several locations. “By empowering villages with access devices, along with a centralised software, a lot of these issues can be solved,” said an expert at a top consulting firm, which advises government on several e-governance initiatives. He requested anonymity because he is not authorised to discuss these projects with media. Long criticised by industry experts for inefficient handling of several e-governance projects, the government, which plans to spend up to Rs 40,000 crore over next few years on information technology, sought private sector help last month when it appointed Infosys co-founder Nandan Nilekani as the chairman of the Unique Identification Authority of India, the first in a series of such transformation projects being evaluated by the government. The new technology system will capture data about a wage seeker under NREGA scheme, manage different projects, monitor funds and even do a social audit at different intervals of time. “Right from the time a village register is maintained to fund disbursal and even beyond, this system will help us do an effective monitoring ,” the government official added. Each village household will be given a unique registration number, along with a card, which will maintain records about the work allotted and money earned by a worker. “By linking it back to a savings account, a corruption-free and cashless disbursal of wages can be ensured,” the official said. From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 20:49:31 2009 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 11:19:31 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] Sam Miller on Delhi Message-ID: "Twelve of India’s 54 billionaires live in the city, but the majority of its citizens are poor, powerless migrants from rural areas in India, Nepal and Bangladesh. It is one of the most unsafe cities in India for women, who are murdered, raped and harassed at home and in public more widely than anywhere else in the country, while the use of expensive ultrasound technology to enable the selective abortion some 24,000 female foetuses every year has resulted in a skewed sex ratio of 820 girls to every 1,000 boys." The National (UAE) In his new book, Sam Miller tackles Delhi’s disparities by walking through it, eschewing its new arterial roads and flyovers for back streets and slums. Siddhartha Deb considers the city he discovers. Delhi: Adventures in a Megacity Sam Miller Jonathan Cape Dh94 On October 31, 1984, the Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi was gunned down in her Delhi bungalow by two Sikh bodyguards. There was a bloody war going on between Sikh separatists and the Indian state, and the assassins were said to have been outraged by Gandhi’s decision to send soldiers into the Golden Temple, the holiest of Sikh shrines, to capture a separatist leader. After a brief period of calm, a process of savage retribution began in many parts of the country, directed at Sikhs who had nothing to do with the killing or the separatist movement. Delhi, despite being the most heavily policed city in the country, saw the worst of such violence. Leaders of the Congress party, then in power, led mobs through the alleyways of poor neighbourhoods like Trilokpuri, where they pillaged and murdered, often setting people on fire after dousing them with kerosene. By the time the army took control, nearly 3,000 people were dead. Twenty-five years later, none of the senior Congress functionaries who directed the mobs – and whose names are well known – have been punished. The killings of 1984 have instead become one more incident relegated to the past by an elite singularly obsessed with entering the future. As for Delhi, it has been busy transforming itself for the past decade, embracing the market economy of the West and furiously erecting shopping malls, five-star hotels and flyovers. The upper classes of Delhi talk about plans to remake it into a futuristic “world city” (a goal usually proclaimed by posters on the walls of public restrooms), and gesture with pride at the new train system whose steel-coloured cars can be seen racing across the skyline. But millennial Delhi remains an unequal, violent place. Twelve of India’s 54 billionaires live in the city, but the majority of its citizens are poor, powerless migrants from rural areas in India, Nepal and Bangladesh. It is one of the most unsafe cities in India for women, who are murdered, raped and harassed at home and in public more widely than anywhere else in the country, while the use of expensive ultrasound technology to enable the selective abortion some 24,000 female foetuses every year has resulted in a skewed sex ratio of 820 girls to every 1,000 boys. As for the new train system, it is an exception in a city where public transportation is erratic and unsafe and the roads are resolutely hostile to pedestrians. In every way, the high-rises and slums of Delhi are filled with so many stories of disparity that the city demands the kind of muckraking attention that Upton Sinclair, for instance, brought to a similarly corrupt Chicago a century ago. But even within India, there are few books on Delhi that compare to recent writing on Bombay, from Suketu Mehta’s nonfiction account, Maximum City, to Vikram Chandra’s thriller, Sacred Games. In spite of the city’s energetic publishing scene, its best writers, usually people who have migrated there from other parts of India, seem uncertain about how to engage their new home. This invisibility of Delhi, the way its most significant stories flare briefly into headlines before being rapidly extinguished, is something I think about every time I return there. So when I started reading Sam Miller’s Delhi: Adventures in a Megacity in a local bookstore, I was intrigued to find that he had tackled Delhi’s disparities head on by walking through it. Miller, a BBC journalist who has lived in the city for seven years, writes: “If you don’t walk in Delhi, large parts of the city will be invisible to you. Its slums are mainly situated away from the main roads, hidden from the upmarket residential areas.” He knows his project is dangerous – pavements and pedestrian crossings are rare, and speeding vehicles are known to run people over – but he thinks the effort worthwhile, not only for the narrative frisson it yields, but also because it increases the possibility of sudden, serendipitous encounters, especially with the hidden poor. A writer walking through the madness of Delhi needs a method, not least because the route one chooses determines the story. Miller is aware of his literary precedents: Baudelaire, whose flâneur strolled the boulevards of 19th-century Paris at night, thereby encountering pimps, prostitutes and police agents; WG Sebald, whose walks along the Norfolk coast of England in The Rings of Saturn offered a slow, melancholic consideration of the once-frenetic energy of the mansions and hotels of the region, now fallen into ruin; and Ian Sinclair, whose “psychogeographical” approach of walking along a route suggested by an arbitrary letter drawn on a London map helped create a portrait of a city unknown to tourists or gentrifiers. After reading about the concentric circles used to build Muslim cities in India, Miller chooses a spiralling circuit for himself. It was an astute decision, ensuring not only that he would cross tightly segregated demographic zones, but also that he would follow the circular layout of the old Connaught Circle and the two Ring Roads, once central to the city’s layout, but now obscured by the hauteur of straight arterial roads and looping overpasses. Miller starts his tour in the concentric circles of the British-built area of Connaught Place, then takes in the chowks of the Mughal city to the north known as Old Delhi, and wanders past the five-star hotels and high-walled bungalows of Luyten’s Delhi, a neighbourhood of politicians, bureaucrats and industrialists. As his spiral widens, he also navigates the affluent neighbourhoods of the south, the arriviste settlements of the west, and, just across the toxic strip of water that was once the Yamuna rivers, the middle-class clusters of the east. It is telling that he finds no fixed address, no set neighbourhood, for the poor. Instead, he encounters them in the interstices of the metropolis, sleeping on the streets and under flyovers, in blue plastic tents next to construction sites, or in slums that can be cleared away at a moment’s notice. Walking along the banks of the Yamuna, Miller sees on its east side the Akshardham temple complex, a sprawling monument of Hindu kitsch approved by the courts despite concerns that it would impede the river’s flow of water. Almost directly across from it, he finds a police barracks on the site of what was, until recently, Delhi’s largest slum, housing some 300,000 people. Such scenes are depicted with empathy by Miller, who uses the privileged eccentricity of his whiteness to engage in conversations that reveal much about lives usually relegated to the margins of the city’s consciousness. He meets butchers who interrupt their slaughter of buffaloes to threaten him with knives but who shake his hand before he leaves; a young woman who, slightly sick from the smell of industrial glue, offers the author a soda before returning to her job demonstrating a 10-foot long printer; and a man on a bicycle who uses a speaker magnet to collect traces of iron from vehicle emissions that he plans to sell for 30 cents a kilo. Miller’s prose has none of the baroque texture to be found in Baudelaire, Sebald and Sinclair, but he blends anecdotes and details well. His decision to emulate Sebald in placing small black-and-white photographs within the text is particularly successful, lending the book a kaleidoscopic feel that captures something of the ad hoc nature of the city. In a chapter on Old Delhi, we see a grainy picture of a suspected heroin dealer being beaten by two policemen against a dystopian-seeming backdrop of a crumbling mansion, a dead tree, piles of trash, and an audience of ragged children: “The violent policeman slapped him across the face. He recoiled in slow motion, his shoulder hunching up as if waiting for the next blow. Instead, the policemen began emptying his pockets. A piece of string, some tinfoil, some matches, a few coins, and what looked like a tightly folded empty crisp packet, secured with a rubber band. ‘Evidence,’ said the violent policeman, speaking a word of English for the first time, as he placed the little package in his pocket without opening it. And then his second world of English, just a little threateningly, a word of closure and command: ‘Goodbye,’ he said and waved me away.” There are many similar passages in the recent fiction anthology Delhi Noir, whose 14 contributors use noir conventions to offer scathing indictments of the brutality of the city’s police, the vulgarity of its upper classes, and the desperation of the poor (the first story, by Omair Ahmad, even reconstructs one of the killings of 1984). Unfortunately, the stories rarely achieve the intensity on display in Miller’s book. Often, their accounts of corrupt policeman and resentful servants merely expand on headlines without offering a fresh perspective or allowing for full immersion into the lives or city being depicted. Those that succeed – Siddharth Chowdhury’s Hostel, Hartosh Singh Bal’s Just Another Death, and the Hindi writer Uday Prakash’s The Walls of Delhi – do so because they are alert not just to the horrible things that happen in Delhi, but also to how it feels to observe and write about them. In Bal’s story, for instance, the idealistic narrator, an ambitous journalist who has investigated a random, insignificant killing ends his account abruptly, on a cynical note that captures the numbing effect of the city by borrowing the hard-boiled tone of the noir detective who, ultimately, cannot make a difference: “What Mohanty had just told me didn’t make the case any simpler – either the police or the councillor and his men were capable of such brutality. But at that moment, the facts didn’t matter. No one in this city gave a damn, and having made it so far, I was just beginning to realise neither did I.” Miller, too, has to come to some form of reckoning. At the end of his walk, he finds himself in the suburb of Gurgaon, surrounded by shopping malls and condominiums whose names (“Malibu Towne,” “Belvedere Park,” “Maple Heights”) have been copied from suburban America. Just a few pages earlier, he had visited similar housing developments expanding through fields of mustard, with former farmers doubtfully counting the cash they have made from selling their land, hoping their children will find service jobs in Gurgaon. Miller doesn’t like Gurgaon, but he repeats the conventional wisdom that “Gurgaon is probably the future, and Delhi, and other Indian cities, will become more and more like Gurgaon.” This is a false note in what is otherwise a remarkably perceptive book, for Gurgaon’s modernity is just as skin deep as Delhi’s, even if it has been laid on by more competent cosmetic surgeons. Its apartment blocks may be newer and cleaner, but they play out the same stories of disparity and its discontents. Gurgaon represents not a solution to the city’s problems, but an attempt to evade them in the manner characteristic of India’s elite in recent years. Such an evasion can work for only so long. There are already signs that the lopsided economic growth that made such subterfuge possible is beginning to give way to national slowdown. And in Delhi, one sees a return of the repressed. In April a Sikh journalist outraged at a government report absolving a Congress leader of responsibility in the killings of 1984 threw his shoe at the home minister. Meanwhile, there are biker gangs on the streets, carrying out petty muggings and the occasional murder. The perpetrators are thought to be the children of victims of the anti-Sikh riots of 1984, survivors who have decided that what prevails in Delhi is might, not justice. Siddhartha Deb is a fellow at Harvard University’s Radcliffe Institute, and he teaches creative writing at the New School. He is currently working on a nonfiction book about contemporary India. From patrice at xs4all.nl Sun Aug 9 22:20:10 2009 From: patrice at xs4all.nl (Patrice Riemens) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 18:50:10 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Reader-list] Sam Miller on Delhi Message-ID: <53082.94.212.51.22.1249836610.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Former French World War I prime minister George Clemenceau on being shown the building sites of New Delhi in 1919 by Luyten (after a tour of the remains of the former capitals): "Aaah, la Nouvelle Delhi fera la plus magnifique de toutes ces ruines!" Wonder what he would say about Gurgaon. (remember taking a day-trip there while student at DSE: a one hour journey by a steam hauled, metre-gauge train to a very provincial place...) Cheerio, patrizio & Diiiinooos! From justjunaid at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 23:03:05 2009 From: justjunaid at gmail.com (Junaid) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 23:03:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on In-Reply-To: <809FC697-1125-42C2-8BA2-A7E5E83E4EB5@sarai.net> References: <625900.47326.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <809FC697-1125-42C2-8BA2-A7E5E83E4EB5@sarai.net> Message-ID: Dear Shuddha, Thank you for your warm words, and also for bringing alive a previously discussed set of issues that a posible freedom charter must address. As I have always maintained I strongly agree with all the points you have reiterated in your post. Also, wherever I discussed these issues in Kashmir, I was met with a positive response. It may not be a generalised phenomenon, but gives me a lot of hope. No one in Kashmir lives under any illusion that they will have their own army--what for? On many other issues listed in your post it is quite possible to provoke debates and make progress. And I think the Kashmiri society has in it elements that can support and sustain the creation of a more hospitable, a more sensitive, and a more just society. But when I say the military occupation leaves no time to ponder over these questions, I also mean space. Occupation has shrunk public space in Kashmir. The frenetic constancy and the extremely disruptive nature of this regime makes it very very difficult for people--even intellectuals--to sustain such debates. Yet, I agree, that Kashmiris have to find ways to do this. Despite the crushing architecture of occupation Kashmiris must find cracks and crevices where these issues can be articulated and made an organic part of their resistance. I, however, believe that many of us who live outside Kashmir, or are relatively freer, need to have a pragmatic approach toward the resistance. Most of us may be well-intentioned but when it comes to lending actual solidarity to the Kashmiris we begin to ask them to first achieve the Ideal before any support could be extended. We trenchantly criticise a Kashmiri protestor for not simultaneously raising the issues we have been talking about while he is battling soldiers attacking his home. At many times, it reduces to asking Kashmiris to resist within a prescribed norm of decency. We feel no actual sympathy for the bearded protestor for perhaps he represents to us everything we abhor. And then there are those of us, who have extremely stringent standards of what constitutes a legitimate, justified resistance--where abberations in the resistance are turned into its dominant feature, while the structurally violent nature of the occupation becomes aberations that can be improved. (For Kashmir, it means making its resistance absolutely contextless, while Indian actions get overcontextualised). We must find a way in which we can help raise issues of actual liberation while not compromising the struggle against occupation. Otherwise, we inadvertently, become complicit in the occupation itself. But, yes, I do reaffirm that the Kashmiri resistance needs to move ten steps if it wants its well-wishers to move one. Junaid On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear Junaid, > > Thank you for an excellent and thoughtful post ! A sea change from the > usual rhetorical grandstanding on Kashmir that we have become accustomed to > on this list. It is the articulation of expressions like this in public fora > that I think can help lay the foundations of a better tomorrow for Kashmir, > and for all of South Asia. > > You say - "It can sound funny when people ask "Would gay people have > their rights in an independent Kashmir?" or "Would minorities be not > only protected but have equal rights as the majorities?," when the people > these questions are asked of don't even know if *they* have a right to life > (with dignity) in Kashmir, when the rigorously grinding everyday life under > the military occupation doesn't even allow its people a chance to > ponder upon their situation. Yet, at some stage or the other, if > solidarities are to be built, if new alliances are to be created, if the > Azadi in the real sense has to be achieved, these questions have to find > some answers in Kashmir's resistance struggle." > > I both agree with you and differ with you on this formulation. I agree that > "if new alliances are to be created, if the Azadi in the real sense has to > be achieved, these questions have to find some answers in Kashmir's > resistance struggle." But I do not think that these questions can be put off > till a hypothetical 'some stage' in the struggle. I do not think these > questions are more important than the goal of ending the occupation, but I > do not think they are less important either. And I also do not believe that > there is any contradiction in holding on to both desires (to end the > occupation and to voice these concerns), simultaneously. > > I believe that these questions have an urgency, and that they actually in > some ways subtly determine the destiny of the struggle for peace and > freedom, in a real and substantive sense. Time and time again, movements > that have thought of themselves as 'liberatory' or 'emancipatory' have > fallen into the trap of creating a hierarchy of " lesser and greater" goals. > Many Communists believed that freedom was a luxury that would have to wait > till the goal of Justice was achieved, and this ensured that they were able > to achieve neither freedom, nor justice, wherever they came to power. > Zionists believed that the question of creating a relationship with the > people of Palestine was a lesser priority to the immediate (and very real) > suffering of Jewish people in Europe and elsewhere, and as a result, they > created a state which is in effect a huge prison camp (both for themselves, > and for their 'other'). Indian nationalists subordinated the question of > thinking about society and culture to the 'goal' of political independence, > and when they did, the came up with remarkably un-imaginative and repressive > ideas, and the result is plain for all of us to see. > > I believe that it is absolutely vital, that especially when people are > facing, as you say, the 'rigorous grind of everyday life' under an > occupation, that intellectuals and activists, and ordinary people are > brought face to face with the consequences of not paying attention to basic > and fundamental questions. The 'strategic pragmatism' that many political > activists seek to impose as a code of silence, in the end, becomes the > foundation of future oppression. I also do not believe that these questions > 'take care of themselves' due to the innate character or a people, or the > broad, inclusive nature of their inherited traditions. Character and > tradition are fragile, easily twisted. The cultivation of liberty is a > daily, quotidian, modest, but vital task, and cannot be left to the > abstraction of a people's character. Every assumption of innocence on behalf > of the oppressed, is a sure condition of its opposite, when the oppressed > find the chance to be oppressors. > > I totally agree with you however, when you say - "Perhaps the best way to > rebuild bridges is to unconditionally accept and acknowledge each other's > pain and sufferring. That Pandits accept and acknowledge the Kashmir's need > to be independent, and Muslims accept the right of Pandit's to live with > dignity, security and as full members of our nation (even if they don't > support or participate in Kashmir's freedom struggle). > > Along with other minorities Kashmiri Pandits have the first right to ask > of Kashmiri resistance to become sensitive to and acknowledge their needs > of security and dignity. If the future independent Kashmir has to move in > pursuit of the goals that we have laid out then the time to intervene > is now!" > > Yes, the time to intervene is now! > > I would reiterate that the cogent expression of a 'Freedom Charter' for > Kashmir would be a great step forward. We have discussed this (though not on > public fora) some months before, but in the light of Professor Shapiro's > text, it might be worthwhile to recall the substantive points of that > discussion for the benefit of the Reader List. I hope you will permit me to > take the liberty of posting salient points from an earlier round of > correspondence. > > It would be excellent if a publicly circulated charter for a Kashmir that > is truly 'Azaad' were to state that : > > 1. it would be a state that would provide equal rights to the members of > all kinds of minorities, (ethnic, religious, social, sexual and other), > > 2. that it would harbour peaceful intentions towards all neighbouring > peoples (in India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Tibet, Central Asia and China) > and that it would declare Kashmir as a demilitarized zone and as a sanctuary > of peace > > 3. that it would take the bold step of doing away with the obscenity of a > standing army > > 4. that it would welcome all displaced Kashmiris (including, not only the > Kashmiri Pandits, but also those who were forced to migrate to Pakistan > Occupied Kashmir) and that it calls for an open dialogue with responsible > and peace-loving representatives of all displaced kashmiri communities > > 5. that it would set up a 'truth and reconciliation' commission to help > account for and address the years of violence in Kashmir > > 5. that it would treat with respect, pride and affection the unique > cultural heritage and history of the Kashmir valley, and the contributions > made by Buddists, Hindus, Muslims and others to this heritage down the > centuries, > > 6. and that it would take a special care to safeguard the unique biological > and natural heritage of the mountains, rivers, forests, lakes and meadows of > Kashmir for the sake of all humanity > > If a document that spelt out these points clearly, while outlining the > moves that can be made towards a free plebiscite under international > auspices were to be clearly spelt out today, it can make a real and > fundamental difference to the destiny of the movement in Kashmir. The old > preconditions for a plebisicte that were articulated by the UN are no longer > relevant to the situation. The terms of reference have to expand a choice > beyond the choice between accession to either India or Pakistan, and BOTH > Indian and Pakistani military personnel should be confined to barracks, or > better still, asked to vacate the territories occupied by them in the > disputed state. > > Such a document could say that the continuing occupation of Kashmir, > especially by the Indian armed forces and state paramilitary and police > forces, and the continued existence of laws such as the AFSPA and the lack > of responsible international mediation is a stumbling block in the > realization of these demands, and that these conditions be transformed, the > occupation be lifeted, so that a free, demilitarized and peaceful Kashmir > (with no armies) can come into being. > > I think that the important point is not whether or not this is a > 'pragmatic' and 'achievable' set of goals, but that it sets the standards > and the criteria by which 'prgamatic' moves may be judged and evaluated. If > people (be they in Kashmir, or in India, or in Pakistan) object to the goals > of such a charter, they will only reveal their true character. > > For all you know, all the reactionaries in India, Pakistan and Kashmir may > be together on this, and all others (cutting across 'national' and > 'identitarian' lines) may be arrayed against them. > best, > > Shuddha > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > From taraprakash at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 23:58:59 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 14:28:59 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamicsof Change By Richard Shapiro References: <998134.50656.qm@web39101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sometimes it appears from this list that only Muslims are being denied the ideals of equality, liberty and basic human rights. The list flares up when such a violation happens. We see a rally of passionate back and forth of mails. How many mails did we read on today's situation in Manipur? Just 1 ... ----- Original Message ----- From: "A.K. Malik" To: "Inder Salim" Cc: "Sarai List" Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamicsof Change By Richard Shapiro > > Dear Mr Salim, > Since we are keeping some other places also under guns and > those people also don't have two square meals for their families,what do > you suggest should be done there.IN India two brothers can't co-exist and > you are talking for an open society, where all kinds of > people can coexist. There is never any harm in dreaming of an ideal > situation. > (Sorry, I have read only a small part and had not been interested in the > Kashmir chain) > Regards, > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Inder Salim wrote: > >> From: Inder Salim >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on >> Dynamics of Change By Richard Shapiro >> To: "reader-list" >> Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 5:39 PM >> Dear Kshmendra >> >> thanks >> >> Between Kashmir and Kashmir what is this term LOC. >> Why India and >> Pakistan are official about it, and if they are, why >> the average >> Indians are hesitant to utter it. And how are >> Kashmiris on both side >> not free to talk about the meaning of this term. with LoC , >> the terms >> like IAK and PAK become automatic in discussions which >> yearn to talk >> freely a bit. >> >> Please tell me, why India had to occupy Kashmir in 1947. >> They should >> have been left alone. Sheikh was all against merger of >> Kashmir with >> Pakistan which was stragecially in the interest of >> India. But india >> was content wth some Bakshis and Sadiqs who were interested >> in money >> and muscle power. And how to celebrate the sheikh Indira >> accord when >> not a single kashmiri supported it. >> >> >> Now, of course, things are markedly different, but where is >> need to be >> loud about Nationalism. Imagine how much we spend on >> Siachen and other >> weaponery to maintain the boarders with Pakistan. It is a >> shame that >> when millions in India are suffering for want of food and >> other basic >> facilities we have billions for buying arms. for >> what, and what is >> the gain ? >> >> Pakistan is not in a position to annex (our) part of >> Kashmir, but is >> ready for an independat kashmir, which should be worked >> out, through >> negotiations. >> >> It is not a secret that Kashmiris have never accepted >> Indian flag in >> Kashmir. Let us be realistic, I am Indian as much as you >> are, and I >> am unikely to live in a kashmir which is run be intolerant >> fundamentalits, if islamists take over a free kashmir. But >> let them >> be, why to listen each and every day about the security >> excess and all >> that, which i beleive is totally unncessary. >> >> India should consolidate what they have posibitvely with >> them. I know >> lot of lies have gone into the making of Kashmir issue, but >> history is >> like that, We need to get rid of our sentimental attachment >> with >> Kashmir. Our liasons with a territory based past is >> vanishable, our >> past based on profound understandings of the other is >> lasting. >> >> Beleive me, if i was a kashmiri muslim, i would have >> criticized each >> and every violent move that supports azadi, but that does >> not mean the >> issue is irrelavant. I am for an open >> society, where all kinds of >> people can coexisit, yes, the ground reality is that >> Kashmiris are not >> so condusive to guarantee an idealistic state ( as Richad >> demanded in >> his article ) for all the shades of people to live >> harmonously, but >> let us accept the facts, and leave them to their own fate. >> At some >> point of time, we have to cease to become teachers. >> >> let us see, how much free and less prejudiced we are >> towards the other >> in Delhi and elsewhere. >> >> There is a mountain of mess we are stuck in. The >> frightening items in >> list are many . Holding kashmir at gun point and declaring >> mera bharat >> mahan hai is something which a poor average Indian fails to >> understand >> if there are no two square meals for his family in the >> evening. >> >> >> with love >> is >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Kshmendra Kaul >> wrote: >> > Dear Inder >> > >> > A citizen of India (which I presume you are) using the >> phrase "Indian >> > occupation of Kashmir"; Interesting. Doubly >> interesting since you use the >> > phrase "Pakistan Administered Kashmir" for that part >> of J&K which is under >> > Pakistan's control. >> > >> > That is just a reiteration of my often stated >> "Nationalist" position. >> > >> > That said, may I thank you for pointing out some of >> the critical flaws and >> > half-truths in Richard Shapiro's essay. >> > >> > Kshmendra >> > >> > --- On Thu, 8/6/09, Inder Salim >> wrote: >> > >> > From: Inder Salim >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? >> Reflections on Dynamics >> > of Change By Richard Shapiro >> > To: "reader-list" >> > Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 2:34 PM >> > >> > Thanks Dear Khurram for forward, wonderful essay. >> > >> > I quote from the article. >> > >> > “Will the differences integral to Kashmir be >> respected, affirmed, >> > heard and engaged? Will 'the other' be the call to >> 'the self' to >> > practice hospitality? Will the >> > Gujur, the village woman who buried loved ones and >> waits in silence for >> > words of/from other loved ones, the atheist, the >> ardent believer, the >> > Shia, the Sufi, the pundit, the Buddhist, the >> differently abled, the >> > homosexual, the beggar, the prostitute, be welcomed as >> participants in >> > constructing a nation that will be 'a light unto other >> nations'” >> > >> > It reminds me of the article written by Arundhati Roy >> some time back, >> > which created a huge storm in Delhi and around, but >> not because of the >> > above questions which she too raised, but by saying >> ‘Kashmir needs >> > freedom as much as India needs from Kashmir’. >> > >> > So we have two points, one for the Indian >> Administration in Kashmir , >> > one for those who want freedom in Kashmir. Both the >> parties somehow >> > escape the critical part of it. The article has >> not asked a single >> > question to Pakistan Administered Kashmir. Kashmiris >> need to ask >> > questions to all. >> > >> > The article has exonerated the entire diplomatic >> legacy of >> > Anglo-American policies which cleverly divided >> Kashmir in 1947 and >> > continued to support that divided legacy, which >> ensures their sale of >> > Arms in this subcontinent. It is not difficult to >> guess how much of >> > both Indian and Pakistani budget contributes in >> maintaining their >> > defence industry. So why on earth they will let the >> Kashmir issue be >> > resolved. Needless to mention about what they did in >> Iraq , >> > Afghanistan or elsewhere in the past. It is a large >> mess. Blaming >> > India alone will be a short cut to the problem. >> > >> > So how to read the incomplete essay which is >> nevertheless seriously >> > written and deserves a debate. >> > >> > We all know how WITH DISSENT COMES RESPONSIBILTY, and >> if in the >> > present we are searching a non-violent solution to >> the pending issues >> > based on Ethics then we need to create a situation >> which gives no >> > excuse to the Indian Army to be there. Let there be no >> violence, not >> > even a six inch pebble throwing catapult. Let there be >> creative ways >> > to make the Indian presence irrelevant. One of them >> is, don’t use the >> > Indian goods, as Gandhi did to British. But it is not >> easy, there must >> > be other effective ways too, if there is a will. >> > >> > So, again there are two methodologies which are >> working in Kashmir. >> > One is Armed Struggle and the other is non-violent >> strategy. We have >> > no mechanism to talk about the armed part of it, >> because either we >> > approve that methodology or demand its abandonment. >> The blind support >> > to Armed Struggle would automatically tantamount to >> ‘ bad faith’. Yes, >> > they wont listen to us, because there are mechanisms >> which legitimizes >> > the others ( American ) intervention simply because >> there is >> > violence/war on the ground. And Americans like >> Violence, which suits >> > both Indian and Pakistani position on Kashmir. We are >> certainly >> > waiting for a simple Sufi Kashmiri version of freedom >> based on ethics >> > and tolerance for the other. Where is cultural >> expressioin of freedom, >> > why it is inferior to a gun shot. >> > >> > If we were wise enough in the first place to resolve >> the issue at our >> > own then we ( Indian and Pakistani) should gift >> > The entire nuclear weaponry to USA. It is because we >> are unwise that >> > we approve violence that gives shape to a politics, >> and we ( writing >> > and reflecting the written ) become end users of their >> actions. We >> > need to support a change that renders the Violence >> impotent. >> > >> > Mr. Richard also writes about ‘Cultural >> Annihilation’ ( of Kashmiris >> > by Indians ) . To club cultural annihilation with >> Indian Security >> > excesses is again slippery and contrived. Kashmiris >> themselves are >> > indifferent to their cultural moorings. But there is a >> reason for >> > that, which is again because of Indian position with >> regard to >> > Kashmir. >> > >> > No one can deny that Kashmiri Pandits and Muslims have >> a shared past >> > in Kashmir but since Kashmiri Pandits are Hindus too, >> who happen to be >> > Indians too, and therefore, supporters of Indian >> policy on Kashmir. >> > So, unfortunately, Kashmiri Muslims had to chisel out >> any similarity >> > that make them resemble Indians. Here, again, we can >> blame Indian >> > occupation of Kashmir, but at some point of time, >> Kashmiris need to >> > protect their heritage, culture and language. No >> excuses, whatsoever. >> > >> > Recently, I happened to visit amazing ruins of >> Parihaspur of great >> > Lalitaditya of 700 AD. Wahabi radical sect of Islam >> disapproves >> > presence of such ruins around the place they live. The >> fear of >> > contamination in fatih leads them to motivate the >> young to deface the >> > figures in any ruins they discover , which is ‘ >> swaab’ ( work in the >> > name of god ). >> > >> > Language: I saw many younger generation Kashmiris >> speaking Urdu ( >> > kashmiri-urdu) to each other even in normal >> conversation. One of the >> > students said frankly that only Villagers speak now >> Kashmiri. The >> > modern fast changing life style is the other main >> reason for Cultural >> > Annihilation which the intellectuals of Kashmir should >> take note of, >> > if there is a need for a free and independent Kashmir. >> Or, if the >> > modern ways of living approve every change we >> experience then to talk >> > about ETHICS engages the entire changing global >> scenario on the earth. >> > Then again, we may include ENVIRONMENT to ethics as >> well. >> > >> > With love >> > is >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Khurram Parvez >> > >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics >> of Change >> >> >> >> By Richard Shapiro >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> August 04, 2009 >> >> >> >> http://www.sacw.net/article1090.html >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> What >> >> are the various roles that diverse constituencies >> must play to >> >> facilitate political processes that undo >> militarization and subjugation >> >> in Indian administered Kashmir? How can systemic >> structures that >> >> institutionalize violence, cultural annihilation, >> economic >> >> impoverishment, and political disempowerment be >> countered through >> >> non-violent, ethical resistance? What alliances >> are necessary to allow >> >> hope for overcoming cycles of oppression and >> breaking with histories of >> >> domination? How can international, national, and >> local actors and >> >> institutions work together to disrupt socially >> unnecessary suffering >> >> and ameliorate the conditions of existence? What >> forces must cohere to >> >> enable a just peace to emerge in a democratic >> Kashmir in the >> >> foreseeable future? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Numerous obstacles present tremendous >> >> challenges to movements for social justice. The >> current world order is >> >> predicated on systems of inequality that >> hierarchically divide >> >> countries, peoples, cultures, classes, genders, >> sexualities, >> >> ethnicities, and faith traditions to the benefit >> of the few and the >> >> detriment of the many. Dominant powers prescribe >> the rules of the game >> >> to their advantage and utilize knowledge, >> technology, and markets to >> >> structure social relations in their interests. The >> new global order >> >> presents itself as the best of all possible worlds >> in which sovereign >> >> nation-states organized through representative >> democracy, rule of law, >> >> free markets with government regulation, >> Enlightenment rationality, and >> >> human rights are promised as the solution to the >> problems of poverty, >> >> war, ecological devastation, genocide, and >> terrorism. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> This >> >> dominant narrative of progress through the spread >> of capitalism >> >> organized in nation-states and guided by knowledge >> has attained >> >> hegemony as it has captured the imagination of >> postcolonial nations >> >> like India. Postcolonial nations have largely >> reproduced the structures >> >> of colonial oppression and organized themselves to >> become players in >> >> the existing global order as militarized, >> hyper-masculinized, nuclear >> >> powers measuring their worth on the basis of GDP >> (Gross Domestic >> >> Product). Emerging middle-classes of massive >> proportion in postcolonial >> >> nations like India buttress this process of nation >> building that >> >> mirrors and enforces dynamics of globalization >> through the production >> >> of unparalleled poverty, massive and multiple >> dislocations, genocide of >> >> indigenous peoples, ecological disaster, and >> abundant psychological >> >> malaise. India is embraced by the international >> community, meaning >> >> largely the United States and Western Europe, >> precisely because it >> >> marches in step with the new world order. India >> amasses great cultural >> >> capital as “the world's largest democracy” in >> spite of the fact that it >> >> is home to 40% of the worlds most economically >> destitute, and seeks to >> >> constitute itself as a nation through policies >> that disregard the needs >> >> of the vast majority of its population. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> India is inventing >> >> nothing new in its self-constitution as a powerful >> nation-state. >> >> National identity is being fabricated through the >> equation of India >> >> with Hindus, in blatant form in entities like the >> RSS and BJP, and in >> >> more subtle form in the Congress and progressive >> Indian citizens for >> >> whom nationalism linked to 'Hindu cultural >> reassertion' is an >> >> unreflective response to a colonial past. The >> equation of Hinduism >> >> (unity in diversity) and Christianity with >> tolerance for difference, >> >> and Islam with terrorism, backwardness, and >> fanaticism, functions as a >> >> global trope supportive of unleashing >> disproportionate violence on >> >> Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Palestine, as >> well as within the >> >> territory of India in Gujurat, Orissa, and in the >> 'disputed territory' >> >> of Kashmir. India forms itself as nation with >> unexamined Hindu >> >> majoritarianism at its base, just as unexamined >> Christian cultural >> >> dominance organizes the United States, rendering >> explorations of the >> >> links between religionization, nationalism and >> particular secularisms >> >> close to impossible. India is also typical in its >> self-formation as >> >> nation in fashioning internal and external enemies >> as crucial to >> >> defining itself, and super-exploiting its most >> proximate 'others' to >> >> fuel its prosperity. European nations had the Jew >> as internal enemy. >> >> The United States is founded on the backs of its >> twin others - enslaved >> >> Africans and massacred Native Americans. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> India has as its main >> >> 'internal other' the Muslim, who can take no >> solace in also occupying >> >> the role as external enemy in India's dominant >> narrative. This double >> >> site is what the state uses to legitimate the >> brutalization of the >> >> Kashmiri people. Firstly, there is India's need >> for a majority Muslim >> >> state within its borders to legitimate itself as a >> progressive, >> >> pluralistic, secular nation. Without a Muslim >> majority state within >> >> India, India cannot as easily legitimate itself as >> a progressive member >> >> of the new global order. Secondly there is India's >> need to establish >> >> national identities that take precedence over >> regional, local, >> >> traditional identities. As a nation, India is in >> the process of >> >> seeking: (1) to establish territorial dominion >> over the current >> >> boundaries of the nation, (2) attain a monopoly on >> the means of >> >> violence, and (3) organize human and natural >> resources to enhance the >> >> productivity and power of the nation. Every nation >> that has achieved >> >> the normative status of modern democracy has >> utilized sustained and >> >> prolific violence to realize these three >> imperatives and in the process >> >> establish its identity. India is in a very >> vulnerable moment in this >> >> process as is evident from an examination of the >> myriad territories and >> >> forces fighting for autonomy in some form from the >> Indian state. Part >> >> of the strategy to foster national identity, >> simultaneous to providing >> >> very little to the vast majority of its >> population, and in fact >> >> fostering mal-development that impoverishes and >> displaces poor, rural >> >> 'citizens', is to fabricate an 'us' that must >> protect itself from >> >> 'them'. Without internal enemies India cannot >> unify itself as a nation. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> This >> >> internal enemy is also resolutely claimed as >> integral to India. The >> >> state and its loyal subjects repeat the same >> refrain: 'Kashmir is an >> >> integral part of India.' 'Kashmir is integral to >> India.' Kashmir is the >> >> other that is integral to the self, a difference >> that is integral to >> >> the identity of India. How then does India treat >> this other, this >> >> integral difference? To debase, devalue, >> disrespect, destroy the >> >> people, culture, history, land, waters, >> aspirations, imaginations, >> >> passions, thoughts, of this other that is claimed >> as integral to self >> >> reveals much about India's current state of >> existence. What other >> >> measure is available to us to assess ourselves as >> ethical entities than >> >> how we treat the other, how we engage the >> differences to which we are >> >> ethically obliged to respond? What nation has >> satisfactorily answered >> >> to this call? If a day arrives when Kashmir is 'a >> nation unto itself', >> >> independent and sovereign, an equal to all other >> nations, will Kashmir >> >> point the nation-state in a new direction? Will >> the differences >> >> integral to Kashmir be respected, affirmed, heard >> and engaged? Will >> >> 'the other' be the call to 'the self' to practice >> hospitality? Will the >> >> Gujur, the village woman who buried loved ones and >> waits in silence for >> >> words of/from other loved ones, the atheist, the >> ardent believer, the >> >> Shia, the Sufi, the pundit, the Buddhist, the >> differently abled, the >> >> homosexual, the beggar, the prostitute, be >> welcomed as participants in >> >> constructing a nation that will be 'a light unto >> other nations'? Will >> >> the other be welcomed without the demand or >> structural incentive to >> >> assimilate, to mirror/mimic dominance to be >> recognized as human? These >> >> questions are too much, perhaps even unfair. Yet, >> is it not necessary >> >> to raise them? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Kashmir occupies a literal and imaginary border >> >> as inside and outside of India in ways that >> structure an impossible >> >> predicament. The state (and its elites and >> middle-classes) does not >> >> trust Kashmiris whose allegiance is always >> presumed to lie with >> >> Pakistan as an Islamic Republic, thus denying >> Kashmiris the rights of >> >> citizens of India, while asserting the >> inviolability of its sovereignty >> >> over Kashmir as a secular, democratic nation >> governed by equality under >> >> rule of law. The distrust legitimates military >> rule organized through >> >> special laws as necessary to provide law and order >> as a matter of >> >> internal security. Thus, on the basis of being >> part of a democratic >> >> state, the rights granted citizens of such a state >> are denied to >> >> Kashmiris. Inclusion in nation is coupled with >> dispossession from >> >> historical memory, rights, and life. India >> legitimates its mistreatment >> >> through a logic originating with European >> nation-states. This denial of >> >> civil and human rights, rule of law, and the >> freedoms of citizenship to >> >> Kashmiris is because the state must protect itself >> from forces within >> >> itself that threaten its character as a lawful, >> democratic nation. >> >> India must violate what is most inviolable, >> through a state of >> >> exception (the use of law to suspend law as >> definitive of sovereignty), >> >> to protect itself. The discourse requires the >> allegiance of the >> >> Kashmiri people to India, as proof that Kashmiris >> are not what the >> >> nation suspects - traitors and terrorists, as >> precondition to access to >> >> the rights of citizenship. These same rights of >> citizenship provided by >> >> the nation, while denied to Kashmiris, are used by >> India to justify its >> >> claims to being a legitimate state entitled to act >> as it does in >> >> Kashmir. As a legitimate state, India is >> predicated on civil rights and >> >> rule of law that it may legitimately suspend in >> the name of national >> >> security. Kashmiris must align with India given >> this legitimacy, while >> >> living as subjects without rights in so far as the >> state defines them >> >> as a threat to its sovereignty. India must violate >> what gives it >> >> legitimacy in order to protect itself from the >> internal enemy integral >> >> to it. India must destroy itself to protect >> itself. The state of >> >> exception produces a state of autoimmunity. India >> is also asserting >> >> itself as superior to other regional >> nation-states, and an emerging >> >> player in relation to Western Europe and the >> United States. Like other >> >> powerful democracies, India is entitled to do >> whatever is necessary to >> >> fight terrorism and strengthen itself as a >> powerful, sovereign, >> >> capitalist nation, aligned with the movement of >> progress (dominance). >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Kashmiris >> >> are placed in a situation where allegiance to >> India as prerequisite to >> >> participation in a lawful democracy involves >> allegiance to a state that >> >> has no rational basis to demand or expect >> allegiance from the people of >> >> Kashmir. India needs to exaggerate the degree of >> cross-border >> >> infiltration and armed Islamist militancy to >> rationalize 500,000+ >> >> troops, blurred boundaries between police and >> army, and massive >> >> intervention in daily life through systematic >> surveillance, land >> >> seizures, checkpoints, torture, disappearances, >> gendered and sexualized >> >> violence, fake encounter deaths and countless >> daily humiliations >> >> calculated to break the spirit of the Kashmiri >> people. This reality is >> >> currently resisted through mass demonstrations, >> regular protests, >> >> strategic use of elections, strategic boycott of >> elections, navigating >> >> restrictions on 'free press', civil society >> mobilizations, legal cases, >> >> an International Tribunal, and regular acts of >> dignity, courage, and >> >> faith that characterize the present in Kashmir. >> India demonstrates the >> >> persona all too common in the 'league of nations' >> - to act with >> >> impunity and disregard for international law and >> local demands for >> >> justice. India uses this fiction of the Kashmiri >> as existing in the >> >> shadowy space of inside/outside the nation to >> legitimate an occupation >> >> that ignores the historical particularity of >> Kashmir and the promises >> >> made to the people of Kashmir to determine its own >> future. The plight >> >> of Kashmiri pundits also becomes an opportunity >> for the state to >> >> legitimate regularized violence and systematic >> oppression of Kashmiris. >> >> Were all Kashmiris, whether currently residing in >> the state of >> >> Jammu/Kashmir or elsewhere, to be given voice to >> express their will, >> >> free from coercion, retribution, and manipulation, >> the outcome would >> >> not be in doubt. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Kashmir is the longest standing disputed area >> >> in the United Nations, the most militarized spot >> on earth, and a drain >> >> on the hopes for prosperity, peace and freedom for >> people throughout >> >> the subcontinent, and the world. There is no >> moving toward peaceful >> >> coexistence between India and Pakistan, no >> stabilization of the region, >> >> no possibility for global nuclear disarmament, no >> hope for forms of >> >> development that prioritize sustainability and >> cultural survival over >> >> militarization, urbanization, and middle-class >> consumerism, no space >> >> for the impossible healing through >> mourning/memorializing the trauma of >> >> Partition, without granting self-determination to >> the people of Kashmir. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The >> >> realization of that which is demanded by >> rationality in service of >> >> justice and emancipation is always against the >> odds. In relation to >> >> Kashmir, a more peaceful future requires at least >> four interrelated >> >> movements: (1) Massive, non-violent, ethical >> dissent within Kashmiri >> >> civil society must continue and expand, attentive >> to alliances that >> >> build stronger relations between men and women, >> youth and adults, >> >> various faith communities, urban and rural, rich >> and poor, facilitative >> >> of inclusive forms of polity that enable a >> diverse, pluralistic >> >> movement for freedom. (2) Leadership must form a >> unified coalition that >> >> activates and learns from the multiple >> constituencies that make up >> >> Kashmiri society. Divergent desires and >> imaginations regarding the >> >> future of Kashmir should be encouraged and >> discussed, outside the >> >> search for homogeneity or conformity. A Kashmir >> free of subjugation >> >> should enable multiple forms of life through >> participatory democracy, >> >> just governance, and economic practice promoting >> health, education, and >> >> individual and collective prosperity. Natural >> resources, like water, >> >> should be both safeguarded, and utilized for >> sustainable development. >> >> Cultural heritage should be understood as an >> inheritance of all >> >> Kashmiris to fashion a unique society nurturing >> hospitality, >> >> innovation, and multicultural polity. (3) >> Education and mobilization to >> >> shift public opinion in India must be undertaken >> throughout civil >> >> society to expand pressure on the Indian state. >> Citizen delegations >> >> from the various states and communities of India >> must visit Kashmir to >> >> learn first hand about the atrocities, >> resistances, hopes, and concerns >> >> prevalent in Kashmir. Such delegations must bring >> their new >> >> understandings to their neighborhoods, schools, >> workplaces, and places >> >> of worship to facilitate discussion and reflection >> that expand the >> >> voices of those who demand that illegal and >> immoral action in Kashmir >> >> done in their name immediately cease. Institutions >> in India must >> >> sponsor delegations from Kashmir, composed of >> diverse peoples who >> >> constitute Kashmiri society, to share the >> realities they have suffered >> >> and the need for alliance toward justice. Hindu >> faith communities must >> >> forge relationships with social justice movements >> in civil society in >> >> Kashmir to oppose Hindu majoritarian dominance and >> insist that the >> >> Indian state demilitarize the state of Jammu & >> Kashmir, become >> >> accountable to international agreements, rule of >> law, and human rights >> >> as the first step on the road to affirming the >> right of Kashmir to >> >> self-determination. Universities and the press >> must play a strong role >> >> in addressing the history and present of Kashmir >> to empower students >> >> and the citizenry of India to participate as >> informed members of a >> >> democratic republic, whose resources and >> conscience are systematically >> >> misused and violated by their government. (4) >> International >> >> solidarities from citizens, governmental and >> non-governmental >> >> organizations, students, workers, professionals, >> public intellectuals, >> >> faith communities, and all interested parties must >> be organized to >> >> educate, inform, advocate, and mobilize for the >> liberation of Kashmir. >> >> International institutions must be both utilized >> and strengthened as >> >> legitimate sites able to hold nation-states >> legally accountable for >> >> their actions. Research, education, and >> publication on the reality of >> >> present-day Kashmir and its modern history must be >> supported by and >> >> within universities, think tanks, and civil >> society forums. Campuses >> >> must become sites where students mobilize >> themselves to exert public >> >> pressure to ethically resolve the situation in >> Kashmir. Resistance in >> >> all four 'sites' must struggle to establish >> alliances, clarify goals, >> >> mobilize resources, deconstruct desires, and carve >> out space where >> >> different forms of polity and community, promoting >> ethical dissent, may >> >> live. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> To commit to these practices secures no >> guarantees. The >> >> process must draw from the resolve of Kashmiris to >> struggle for justice >> >> and strengthen this resolve through principled >> alliance that breaks the >> >> isolation and despair that accompanies any people >> subjected to brutal >> >> mistreatment. The multiple legacies that inspire >> and haunt us must >> >> become the very sustenance that, through sharing, >> nurtures our >> >> struggle. Allow me to conclude by drawing from a >> source common to the >> >> three Abrahamic traditions, and of universal >> relevance in the present, >> >> Deuteronomy 16:20, Justice, Justice, You Shall >> Pursue. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Richard >> >> Shapiro is Chair and Associate Professor, >> Department of Social and >> >> Cultural Anthropology, California Institute of >> Integral Studies in San >> >> Francisco. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and >> the city. >> >> Critiques & Collaborations >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> with >> >> subscribe in the subject header. >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> >> List archive: >> > >> > >> > -- >> > >> > http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> with subscribe >> > in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From indersalim at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 00:30:41 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:30:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamicsof Change By Richard Shapiro In-Reply-To: References: <998134.50656.qm@web39101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70908091200g6e577354l1a135a632b42271e@mail.gmail.com> thanks Taraprakash for this valid point yes Mr. Malik lot of amongst us are living under the shadow of a gun, true , in a deeper sense, the entire system of our society is based on policing the other, which automatically creates law breakers and that in turn justifies the gun. The system becomes such that those who hold guns can become victims of the system too... but in case of kashmir and now manipur, we have a situation where entire civil population is under gun point. so the debate intensifies, but your point was aimed to sensitize the debators, agreed. So, i understand that your point deserves a debate on merit , since we have tons of structures around us which resemble guns in disguise, for elmination of thousands of species on earth alongwith human beings, poisoned to pioson the other. No wonder that we all have become cannibals in a stranger fashion. we all are part of a system that make us partners of a crime which leaves nothing for us but a deep melancholy but to escape i often say love and so love with cheers is On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 11:58 PM, taraprakash wrote: > Sometimes it appears from this list that only Muslims are being denied the > ideals of equality, liberty and basic human rights. The list flares up when > such a violation happens. We see a rally of passionate back and forth of > mails. How many mails did we read on today's situation in Manipur? Just 1 > ... > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "A.K. Malik" > To: "Inder Salim" > Cc: "Sarai List" > Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 2:35 PM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on > Dynamicsof Change By Richard Shapiro > > >> >> Dear Mr Salim, >>                Since we are keeping some other places also under guns and >> those people also don't have two square meals for their families,what do you >> suggest should be done there.IN India two brothers can't co-exist and you >> are talking  for an open society, where all kinds of >> people can coexist. There is never any harm in dreaming of an ideal >> situation. >> (Sorry, I have read only a small part and had not been interested in the >> Kashmir chain) >> Regards, >> >> (A.K.MALIK) >> >> >> --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Inder Salim wrote: >> >>> From: Inder Salim >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on >>> Dynamics of Change By Richard Shapiro >>> To: "reader-list" >>> Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 5:39 PM >>> Dear Kshmendra >>> >>> thanks >>> >>> Between Kashmir and Kashmir what is this term LOC. >>> Why India and >>> Pakistan are official about it, and if they are, why >>> the average >>> Indians are hesitant to utter it. And how are >>> Kashmiris on both side >>> not free to talk about the meaning of this term. with LoC , >>> the terms >>> like IAK and PAK become automatic in discussions which >>> yearn to talk >>> freely a bit. >>> >>> Please tell me, why India had to occupy Kashmir in 1947. >>> They should >>> have been left alone. Sheikh was all against merger of >>> Kashmir with >>> Pakistan which was stragecially in the interest of >>> India. But india >>> was content wth some Bakshis and Sadiqs who were interested >>> in money >>> and muscle power. And how to celebrate the sheikh Indira >>> accord when >>> not a single kashmiri supported it. >>> >>> >>> Now, of course, things are markedly different, but where is >>> need to be >>> loud about Nationalism. Imagine how much we spend on >>> Siachen and other >>> weaponery to maintain the boarders with Pakistan. It is a >>> shame that >>> when millions in India are suffering for want of food and >>> other basic >>> facilities we have billions for buying arms. for >>> what, and what is >>> the gain ? >>> >>> Pakistan is not in a position to annex (our) part of >>> Kashmir, but is >>> ready for an independat kashmir, which should be worked >>> out, through >>> negotiations. >>> >>> It is not a secret that Kashmiris have never accepted >>> Indian flag in >>> Kashmir. Let us be realistic, I am Indian as much as you >>> are, and I >>> am unikely to live in a kashmir which is run be intolerant >>> fundamentalits, if islamists take over a free kashmir. But >>> let them >>> be, why to listen each and every day about the security >>> excess and all >>> that, which i beleive is totally unncessary. >>> >>> India should consolidate what they have posibitvely with >>> them. I know >>> lot of lies have gone into the making of Kashmir issue, but >>> history is >>> like that, We need to get rid of our sentimental attachment >>> with >>> Kashmir. Our liasons with a territory based past is >>> vanishable, our >>> past based on profound understandings of the other is >>> lasting. >>> >>> Beleive me, if i was a kashmiri muslim, i would have >>> criticized each >>> and every violent move that supports azadi, but that does >>> not mean the >>> issue is irrelavant. I am for an open >>> society, where all kinds of >>> people can coexisit, yes, the ground reality is that >>> Kashmiris are not >>> so condusive to guarantee an idealistic state ( as Richad >>> demanded in >>> his article ) for all the shades of people to live >>> harmonously, but >>> let us accept the facts, and leave them to their own fate. >>> At some >>> point of time, we have to cease to become teachers. >>> >>> let us see, how much free and less prejudiced we are >>> towards the other >>> in Delhi and elsewhere. >>> >>> There is a mountain of mess we are stuck in. The >>> frightening items in >>> list are many . Holding kashmir at gun point and declaring >>> mera bharat >>> mahan hai is something which a poor average Indian fails to >>> understand >>> if there are no two square meals for his family in the >>> evening. >>> >>> >>> with love >>> is >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Kshmendra Kaul >>> wrote: >>> > Dear Inder >>> > >>> > A citizen of India (which I presume you are) using the >>> phrase "Indian >>> > occupation of Kashmir"; Interesting. Doubly >>> interesting since you use the >>> > phrase "Pakistan Administered Kashmir" for that part >>> of J&K which is under >>> > Pakistan's control. >>> > >>> > That is just a reiteration of my often stated >>> "Nationalist" position. >>> > >>> > That said, may I thank you for pointing out some of >>> the critical flaws and >>> > half-truths in Richard Shapiro's essay. >>> > >>> > Kshmendra >>> > >>> > --- On Thu, 8/6/09, Inder Salim >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > From: Inder Salim >>> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? >>> Reflections on Dynamics >>> > of Change By Richard Shapiro >>> > To: "reader-list" >>> > Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 2:34 PM >>> > >>> > Thanks Dear Khurram for forward, wonderful essay. >>> > >>> > I quote from the article. >>> > >>> > “Will the differences integral to Kashmir be >>> respected, affirmed, >>> > heard and engaged? Will 'the other' be the call to >>> 'the self' to >>> > practice hospitality? Will the >>> > Gujur, the village woman who buried loved ones and >>> waits in silence for >>> > words of/from other loved ones, the atheist, the >>> ardent believer, the >>> > Shia, the Sufi, the pundit, the Buddhist, the >>> differently abled, the >>> > homosexual, the beggar, the prostitute, be welcomed as >>> participants in >>> > constructing a nation that will be 'a light unto other >>> nations'” >>> > >>> > It reminds me of the article written by Arundhati Roy >>> some time back, >>> > which created a huge storm in Delhi and around, but >>> not because of the >>> > above questions which she too raised, but by saying >>> ‘Kashmir needs >>> > freedom as much as India needs from Kashmir’. >>> > >>> > So we have two points, one for the Indian >>> Administration in Kashmir , >>> > one for those who want freedom in Kashmir. Both the >>> parties somehow >>> > escape the critical part of it. The article has >>> not asked a single >>> > question to Pakistan Administered Kashmir. Kashmiris >>> need to ask >>> > questions to all. >>> > >>> > The article has exonerated the entire diplomatic >>> legacy of >>> > Anglo-American policies which cleverly divided >>> Kashmir in 1947 and >>> > continued to support that divided legacy, which >>> ensures their sale of >>> > Arms in this subcontinent. It is not difficult to >>> guess how much of >>> > both Indian and Pakistani budget contributes in >>> maintaining their >>> > defence industry. So why on earth they will let the >>> Kashmir issue be >>> > resolved. Needless to mention about what they did in >>> Iraq , >>> > Afghanistan or elsewhere in the past. It is a large >>> mess. Blaming >>> > India alone will be a short cut to the problem. >>> > >>> > So how to read the incomplete essay which is >>> nevertheless seriously >>> > written and deserves a debate. >>> > >>> > We all know how WITH DISSENT COMES RESPONSIBILTY, and >>> if in the >>> > present we are searching a non-violent solution to >>> the pending issues >>> > based on Ethics then we need to create a situation >>> which gives no >>> > excuse to the Indian Army to be there. Let there be no >>> violence, not >>> > even a six inch pebble throwing catapult. Let there be >>> creative ways >>> > to make the Indian presence irrelevant. One of them >>> is, don’t use the >>> > Indian goods, as Gandhi did to British. But it is not >>> easy, there must >>> > be other effective ways too, if there is a will. >>> > >>> > So, again there are two methodologies which are >>> working in Kashmir. >>> > One is Armed Struggle and the other is non-violent >>> strategy. We have >>> > no mechanism to talk about the armed part of it, >>> because either we >>> > approve that methodology or demand its abandonment. >>> The blind support >>> > to Armed Struggle would automatically tantamount to >>> ‘ bad faith’. Yes, >>> > they wont listen to us, because there are mechanisms >>> which legitimizes >>> > the others ( American ) intervention simply because >>> there is >>> > violence/war on the ground. And Americans like >>> Violence, which suits >>> > both Indian and Pakistani position on Kashmir. We are >>> certainly >>> > waiting for a simple Sufi Kashmiri version of freedom >>> based on ethics >>> > and tolerance for the other. Where is cultural >>> expressioin of freedom, >>> > why it is inferior to a gun shot. >>> > >>> > If we were wise enough in the first place to resolve >>> the issue at our >>> > own then we ( Indian and Pakistani) should gift >>> > The entire nuclear weaponry to USA. It is because we >>> are unwise that >>> > we approve violence that gives shape to a politics, >>> and we ( writing >>> > and reflecting the written ) become end users of their >>> actions. We >>> > need to support a change that renders the Violence >>> impotent. >>> > >>> > Mr. Richard also writes about ‘Cultural >>> Annihilation’ ( of Kashmiris >>> > by Indians ) . To club cultural annihilation with >>> Indian Security >>> > excesses is again slippery and contrived. Kashmiris >>> themselves are >>> > indifferent to their cultural moorings. But there is a >>> reason for >>> > that, which is again because of Indian position with >>> regard to >>> > Kashmir. >>> > >>> > No one can deny that Kashmiri Pandits and Muslims have >>> a shared past >>> > in Kashmir but since Kashmiri Pandits are Hindus too, >>> who happen to be >>> > Indians too, and therefore, supporters of Indian >>> policy on Kashmir. >>> > So, unfortunately, Kashmiri Muslims had to chisel out >>> any similarity >>> > that make them resemble Indians. Here, again, we can >>> blame Indian >>> > occupation of Kashmir, but at some point of time, >>> Kashmiris need to >>> > protect their heritage, culture and language. No >>> excuses, whatsoever. >>> > >>> > Recently, I happened to visit amazing ruins of >>> Parihaspur of great >>> > Lalitaditya of 700 AD. Wahabi radical sect of Islam >>> disapproves >>> > presence of such ruins around the place they live. The >>> fear of >>> > contamination in fatih leads them to motivate the >>> young to deface the >>> > figures in any ruins they discover , which is ‘ >>> swaab’ ( work in the >>> > name of god ). >>> > >>> > Language: I saw many younger generation Kashmiris >>> speaking Urdu ( >>> > kashmiri-urdu) to each other even in normal >>> conversation. One of the >>> > students said frankly that only Villagers speak now >>> Kashmiri. The >>> > modern fast changing life style is the other main >>> reason for Cultural >>> > Annihilation which the intellectuals of Kashmir should >>> take note of, >>> > if there is a need for a free and independent Kashmir. >>> Or, if the >>> > modern ways of living approve every change we >>> experience then to talk >>> > about ETHICS engages the entire changing global >>> scenario on the earth. >>> > Then again, we may include ENVIRONMENT to ethics as >>> well. >>> > >>> > With love >>> > is >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Khurram Parvez > >>> > >>> > wrote: >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamics >>> of Change >>> >> >>> >> By Richard Shapiro >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> August 04, 2009 >>> >> >>> >> http://www.sacw.net/article1090.html >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> What >>> >> are the various roles that diverse constituencies >>> must play to >>> >> facilitate political processes that undo >>> militarization and subjugation >>> >> in Indian administered Kashmir? How can systemic >>> structures that >>> >> institutionalize violence, cultural annihilation, >>> economic >>> >> impoverishment, and political disempowerment be >>> countered through >>> >> non-violent, ethical resistance? What alliances >>> are necessary to allow >>> >> hope for overcoming cycles of oppression and >>> breaking with histories of >>> >> domination? How can international, national, and >>> local actors and >>> >> institutions work together to disrupt socially >>> unnecessary suffering >>> >> and ameliorate the conditions of existence? What >>> forces must cohere to >>> >> enable a just peace to emerge in a democratic >>> Kashmir in the >>> >> foreseeable future? >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Numerous obstacles present tremendous >>> >> challenges to movements for social justice. The >>> current world order is >>> >> predicated on systems of inequality that >>> hierarchically divide >>> >> countries, peoples, cultures, classes, genders, >>> sexualities, >>> >> ethnicities, and faith traditions to the benefit >>> of the few and the >>> >> detriment of the many. Dominant powers prescribe >>> the rules of the game >>> >> to their advantage and utilize knowledge, >>> technology, and markets to >>> >> structure social relations in their interests. The >>> new global order >>> >> presents itself as the best of all possible worlds >>> in which sovereign >>> >> nation-states organized through representative >>> democracy, rule of law, >>> >> free markets with government regulation, >>> Enlightenment rationality, and >>> >> human rights are promised as the solution to the >>> problems of poverty, >>> >> war, ecological devastation, genocide, and >>> terrorism. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> This >>> >> dominant narrative of progress through the spread >>> of capitalism >>> >> organized in nation-states and guided by knowledge >>> has attained >>> >> hegemony as it has captured the imagination of >>> postcolonial nations >>> >> like India. Postcolonial nations have largely >>> reproduced the structures >>> >> of colonial oppression and organized themselves to >>> become players in >>> >> the existing global order as militarized, >>> hyper-masculinized, nuclear >>> >> powers measuring their worth on the basis of GDP >>> (Gross Domestic >>> >> Product). Emerging middle-classes of massive >>> proportion in postcolonial >>> >> nations like India buttress this process of nation >>> building that >>> >> mirrors and enforces dynamics of globalization >>> through the production >>> >> of unparalleled poverty, massive and multiple >>> dislocations, genocide of >>> >> indigenous peoples, ecological disaster, and >>> abundant psychological >>> >> malaise. India is embraced by the international >>> community, meaning >>> >> largely the United States and Western Europe, >>> precisely because it >>> >> marches in step with the new world order. India >>> amasses great cultural >>> >> capital as “the world's largest democracy” in >>> spite of the fact that it >>> >> is home to 40% of the worlds most economically >>> destitute, and seeks to >>> >> constitute itself as a nation through policies >>> that disregard the needs >>> >> of the vast majority of its population. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> India is inventing >>> >> nothing new in its self-constitution as a powerful >>> nation-state. >>> >> National identity is being fabricated through the >>> equation of India >>> >> with Hindus, in blatant form in entities like the >>> RSS and BJP, and in >>> >> more subtle form in the Congress and progressive >>> Indian citizens for >>> >> whom nationalism linked to 'Hindu cultural >>> reassertion' is an >>> >> unreflective response to a colonial past. The >>> equation of Hinduism >>> >> (unity in diversity) and Christianity with >>> tolerance for difference, >>> >> and Islam with terrorism, backwardness, and >>> fanaticism, functions as a >>> >> global trope supportive of unleashing >>> disproportionate violence on >>> >> Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Palestine, as >>> well as within the >>> >> territory of India in Gujurat, Orissa, and in the >>> 'disputed territory' >>> >> of Kashmir. India forms itself as nation with >>> unexamined Hindu >>> >> majoritarianism at its base, just as unexamined >>> Christian cultural >>> >> dominance organizes the United States, rendering >>> explorations of the >>> >> links between religionization, nationalism and >>> particular secularisms >>> >> close to impossible. India is also typical in its >>> self-formation as >>> >> nation in fashioning internal and external enemies >>> as crucial to >>> >> defining itself, and super-exploiting its most >>> proximate 'others' to >>> >> fuel its prosperity. European nations had the Jew >>> as internal enemy. >>> >> The United States is founded on the backs of its >>> twin others - enslaved >>> >> Africans and massacred Native Americans. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> India has as its main >>> >> 'internal other' the Muslim, who can take no >>> solace in also occupying >>> >> the role as external enemy in India's dominant >>> narrative. This double >>> >> site is what the state uses to legitimate the >>> brutalization of the >>> >> Kashmiri people. Firstly, there is India's need >>> for a majority Muslim >>> >> state within its borders to legitimate itself as a >>> progressive, >>> >> pluralistic, secular nation. Without a Muslim >>> majority state within >>> >> India, India cannot as easily legitimate itself as >>> a progressive member >>> >> of the new global order. Secondly there is India's >>> need to establish >>> >> national identities that take precedence over >>> regional, local, >>> >> traditional identities. As a nation, India is in >>> the process of >>> >> seeking: (1) to establish territorial dominion >>> over the current >>> >> boundaries of the nation, (2) attain a monopoly on >>> the means of >>> >> violence, and (3) organize human and natural >>> resources to enhance the >>> >> productivity and power of the nation. Every nation >>> that has achieved >>> >> the normative status of modern democracy has >>> utilized sustained and >>> >> prolific violence to realize these three >>> imperatives and in the process >>> >> establish its identity. India is in a very >>> vulnerable moment in this >>> >> process as is evident from an examination of the >>> myriad territories and >>> >> forces fighting for autonomy in some form from the >>> Indian state. Part >>> >> of the strategy to foster national identity, >>> simultaneous to providing >>> >> very little to the vast majority of its >>> population, and in fact >>> >> fostering mal-development that impoverishes and >>> displaces poor, rural >>> >> 'citizens', is to fabricate an 'us' that must >>> protect itself from >>> >> 'them'. Without internal enemies India cannot >>> unify itself as a nation. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> This >>> >> internal enemy is also resolutely claimed as >>> integral to India. The >>> >> state and its loyal subjects repeat the same >>> refrain: 'Kashmir is an >>> >> integral part of India.' 'Kashmir is integral to >>> India.' Kashmir is the >>> >> other that is integral to the self, a difference >>> that is integral to >>> >> the identity of India. How then does India treat >>> this other, this >>> >> integral difference? To debase, devalue, >>> disrespect, destroy the >>> >> people, culture, history, land, waters, >>> aspirations, imaginations, >>> >> passions, thoughts, of this other that is claimed >>> as integral to self >>> >> reveals much about India's current state of >>> existence. What other >>> >> measure is available to us to assess ourselves as >>> ethical entities than >>> >> how we treat the other, how we engage the >>> differences to which we are >>> >> ethically obliged to respond? What nation has >>> satisfactorily answered >>> >> to this call? If a day arrives when Kashmir is 'a >>> nation unto itself', >>> >> independent and sovereign, an equal to all other >>> nations, will Kashmir >>> >> point the nation-state in a new direction? Will >>> the differences >>> >> integral to Kashmir be respected, affirmed, heard >>> and engaged? Will >>> >> 'the other' be the call to 'the self' to practice >>> hospitality? Will the >>> >> Gujur, the village woman who buried loved ones and >>> waits in silence for >>> >> words of/from other loved ones, the atheist, the >>> ardent believer, the >>> >> Shia, the Sufi, the pundit, the Buddhist, the >>> differently abled, the >>> >> homosexual, the beggar, the prostitute, be >>> welcomed as participants in >>> >> constructing a nation that will be 'a light unto >>> other nations'? Will >>> >> the other be welcomed without the demand or >>> structural incentive to >>> >> assimilate, to mirror/mimic dominance to be >>> recognized as human? These >>> >> questions are too much, perhaps even unfair. Yet, >>> is it not necessary >>> >> to raise them? >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Kashmir occupies a literal and imaginary border >>> >> as inside and outside of India in ways that >>> structure an impossible >>> >> predicament. The state (and its elites and >>> middle-classes) does not >>> >> trust Kashmiris whose allegiance is always >>> presumed to lie with >>> >> Pakistan as an Islamic Republic, thus denying >>> Kashmiris the rights of >>> >> citizens of India, while asserting the >>> inviolability of its sovereignty >>> >> over Kashmir as a secular, democratic nation >>> governed by equality under >>> >> rule of law. The distrust legitimates military >>> rule organized through >>> >> special laws as necessary to provide law and order >>> as a matter of >>> >> internal security. Thus, on the basis of being >>> part of a democratic >>> >> state, the rights granted citizens of such a state >>> are denied to >>> >> Kashmiris. Inclusion in nation is coupled with >>> dispossession from >>> >> historical memory, rights, and life. India >>> legitimates its mistreatment >>> >> through a logic originating with European >>> nation-states. This denial of >>> >> civil and human rights, rule of law, and the >>> freedoms of citizenship to >>> >> Kashmiris is because the state must protect itself >>> from forces within >>> >> itself that threaten its character as a lawful, >>> democratic nation. >>> >> India must violate what is most inviolable, >>> through a state of >>> >> exception (the use of law to suspend law as >>> definitive of sovereignty), >>> >> to protect itself. The discourse requires the >>> allegiance of the >>> >> Kashmiri people to India, as proof that Kashmiris >>> are not what the >>> >> nation suspects - traitors and terrorists, as >>> precondition to access to >>> >> the rights of citizenship. These same rights of >>> citizenship provided by >>> >> the nation, while denied to Kashmiris, are used by >>> India to justify its >>> >> claims to being a legitimate state entitled to act >>> as it does in >>> >> Kashmir. As a legitimate state, India is >>> predicated on civil rights and >>> >> rule of law that it may legitimately suspend in >>> the name of national >>> >> security. Kashmiris must align with India given >>> this legitimacy, while >>> >> living as subjects without rights in so far as the >>> state defines them >>> >> as a threat to its sovereignty. India must violate >>> what gives it >>> >> legitimacy in order to protect itself from the >>> internal enemy integral >>> >> to it. India must destroy itself to protect >>> itself. The state of >>> >> exception produces a state of autoimmunity. India >>> is also asserting >>> >> itself as superior to other regional >>> nation-states, and an emerging >>> >> player in relation to Western Europe and the >>> United States. Like other >>> >> powerful democracies, India is entitled to do >>> whatever is necessary to >>> >> fight terrorism and strengthen itself as a >>> powerful, sovereign, >>> >> capitalist nation, aligned with the movement of >>> progress (dominance). >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Kashmiris >>> >> are placed in a situation where allegiance to >>> India as prerequisite to >>> >> participation in a lawful democracy involves >>> allegiance to a state that >>> >> has no rational basis to demand or expect >>> allegiance from the people of >>> >> Kashmir. India needs to exaggerate the degree of >>> cross-border >>> >> infiltration and armed Islamist militancy to >>> rationalize 500,000+ >>> >> troops, blurred boundaries between police and >>> army, and massive >>> >> intervention in daily life through systematic >>> surveillance, land >>> >> seizures, checkpoints, torture, disappearances, >>> gendered and sexualized >>> >> violence, fake encounter deaths and countless >>> daily humiliations >>> >> calculated to break the spirit of the Kashmiri >>> people. This reality is >>> >> currently resisted through mass demonstrations, >>> regular protests, >>> >> strategic use of elections, strategic boycott of >>> elections, navigating >>> >> restrictions on 'free press', civil society >>> mobilizations, legal cases, >>> >> an International Tribunal, and regular acts of >>> dignity, courage, and >>> >> faith that characterize the present in Kashmir. >>> India demonstrates the >>> >> persona all too common in the 'league of nations' >>> - to act with >>> >> impunity and disregard for international law and >>> local demands for >>> >> justice. India uses this fiction of the Kashmiri >>> as existing in the >>> >> shadowy space of inside/outside the nation to >>> legitimate an occupation >>> >> that ignores the historical particularity of >>> Kashmir and the promises >>> >> made to the people of Kashmir to determine its own >>> future. The plight >>> >> of Kashmiri pundits also becomes an opportunity >>> for the state to >>> >> legitimate regularized violence and systematic >>> oppression of Kashmiris. >>> >> Were all Kashmiris, whether currently residing in >>> the state of >>> >> Jammu/Kashmir or elsewhere, to be given voice to >>> express their will, >>> >> free from coercion, retribution, and manipulation, >>> the outcome would >>> >> not be in doubt. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Kashmir is the longest standing disputed area >>> >> in the United Nations, the most militarized spot >>> on earth, and a drain >>> >> on the hopes for prosperity, peace and freedom for >>> people throughout >>> >> the subcontinent, and the world. There is no >>> moving toward peaceful >>> >> coexistence between India and Pakistan, no >>> stabilization of the region, >>> >> no possibility for global nuclear disarmament, no >>> hope for forms of >>> >> development that prioritize sustainability and >>> cultural survival over >>> >> militarization, urbanization, and middle-class >>> consumerism, no space >>> >> for the impossible healing through >>> mourning/memorializing the trauma of >>> >> Partition, without granting self-determination to >>> the people of Kashmir. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> The >>> >> realization of that which is demanded by >>> rationality in service of >>> >> justice and emancipation is always against the >>> odds. In relation to >>> >> Kashmir, a more peaceful future requires at least >>> four interrelated >>> >> movements: (1) Massive, non-violent, ethical >>> dissent within Kashmiri >>> >> civil society must continue and expand, attentive >>> to alliances that >>> >> build stronger relations between men and women, >>> youth and adults, >>> >> various faith communities, urban and rural, rich >>> and poor, facilitative >>> >> of inclusive forms of polity that enable a >>> diverse, pluralistic >>> >> movement for freedom. (2) Leadership must form a >>> unified coalition that >>> >> activates and learns from the multiple >>> constituencies that make up >>> >> Kashmiri society. Divergent desires and >>> imaginations regarding the >>> >> future of Kashmir should be encouraged and >>> discussed, outside the >>> >> search for homogeneity or conformity. A Kashmir >>> free of subjugation >>> >> should enable multiple forms of life through >>> participatory democracy, >>> >> just governance, and economic practice promoting >>> health, education, and >>> >> individual and collective prosperity. Natural >>> resources, like water, >>> >> should be both safeguarded, and utilized for >>> sustainable development. >>> >> Cultural heritage should be understood as an >>> inheritance of all >>> >> Kashmiris to fashion a unique society nurturing >>> hospitality, >>> >> innovation, and multicultural polity. (3) >>> Education and mobilization to >>> >> shift public opinion in India must be undertaken >>> throughout civil >>> >> society to expand pressure on the Indian state. >>> Citizen delegations >>> >> from the various states and communities of India >>> must visit Kashmir to >>> >> learn first hand about the atrocities, >>> resistances, hopes, and concerns >>> >> prevalent in Kashmir. Such delegations must bring >>> their new >>> >> understandings to their neighborhoods, schools, >>> workplaces, and places >>> >> of worship to facilitate discussion and reflection >>> that expand the >>> >> voices of those who demand that illegal and >>> immoral action in Kashmir >>> >> done in their name immediately cease. Institutions >>> in India must >>> >> sponsor delegations from Kashmir, composed of >>> diverse peoples who >>> >> constitute Kashmiri society, to share the >>> realities they have suffered >>> >> and the need for alliance toward justice. Hindu >>> faith communities must >>> >> forge relationships with social justice movements >>> in civil society in >>> >> Kashmir to oppose Hindu majoritarian dominance and >>> insist that the >>> >> Indian state demilitarize the state of Jammu & >>> Kashmir, become >>> >> accountable to international agreements, rule of >>> law, and human rights >>> >> as the first step on the road to affirming the >>> right of Kashmir to >>> >> self-determination. Universities and the press >>> must play a strong role >>> >> in addressing the history and present of Kashmir >>> to empower students >>> >> and the citizenry of India to participate as >>> informed members of a >>> >> democratic republic, whose resources and >>> conscience are systematically >>> >> misused and violated by their government. (4) >>> International >>> >> solidarities from citizens, governmental and >>> non-governmental >>> >> organizations, students, workers, professionals, >>> public intellectuals, >>> >> faith communities, and all interested parties must >>> be organized to >>> >> educate, inform, advocate, and mobilize for the >>> liberation of Kashmir. >>> >> International institutions must be both utilized >>> and strengthened as >>> >> legitimate sites able to hold nation-states >>> legally accountable for >>> >> their actions. Research, education, and >>> publication on the reality of >>> >> present-day Kashmir and its modern history must be >>> supported by and >>> >> within universities, think tanks, and civil >>> society forums. Campuses >>> >> must become sites where students mobilize >>> themselves to exert public >>> >> pressure to ethically resolve the situation in >>> Kashmir. Resistance in >>> >> all four 'sites' must struggle to establish >>> alliances, clarify goals, >>> >> mobilize resources, deconstruct desires, and carve >>> out space where >>> >> different forms of polity and community, promoting >>> ethical dissent, may >>> >> live. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> To commit to these practices secures no >>> guarantees. The >>> >> process must draw from the resolve of Kashmiris to >>> struggle for justice >>> >> and strengthen this resolve through principled >>> alliance that breaks the >>> >> isolation and despair that accompanies any people >>> subjected to brutal >>> >> mistreatment. The multiple legacies that inspire >>> and haunt us must >>> >> become the very sustenance that, through sharing, >>> nurtures our >>> >> struggle. Allow me to conclude by drawing from a >>> source common to the >>> >> three Abrahamic traditions, and of universal >>> relevance in the present, >>> >> Deuteronomy 16:20, Justice, Justice, You Shall >>> Pursue. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Richard >>> >> Shapiro is Chair and Associate Professor, >>> Department of Social and >>> >> Cultural Anthropology, California Institute of >>> Integral Studies in San >>> >> Francisco. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _________________________________________ >>> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and >>> the city. >>> >> Critiques & Collaborations >>> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>> with >>> >> subscribe in the subject header. >>> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> >> List archive: >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > >>> > http://indersalim.livejournal.com >>> > _________________________________________ >>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >>> city. >>> > Critiques & Collaborations >>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>> with subscribe >>> > in the subject header. >>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >>> city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>> with subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Aug 10 00:31:27 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 20:01:27 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamicsof Change By Richard Shapiro In-Reply-To: References: <998134.50656.qm@web39101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40908091201v3df03fa1w3f3c4a80ba160013@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taraprakash, Thank you for bringing this important aspect about the list to our notice. May I join you in saying that for many years I used to think on exactly the same lines with respect to the issue of identity, identity cards and other identification practices. Now maybe I have less reason to feel so aggrieved. The point being, this list as you may have realized is depended on mails posted on a voluntary basis, therefore, may I take this opportunity to call upon you to bring to our notice all or any stories which relate to Manipur or any other non-Muslim issue, which particularly, you would like list members to read/comment/reflect/respond or engage in any other form. Warm regards Taha From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Mon Aug 10 01:57:29 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 01:57:29 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] on Delhi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <600288.54733.qm@web94701.mail.in2.yahoo.com> U know, I attended a seminaar by some reknowned Social Worker. Evry 3rd line was 'Aur Ma-beheno ke saath shosan hota hain!' (for present purposes,chicks not allowed!) Hilariously, most of the so called moms and sis left the discussion tired of the topic. True a hilarious note, but neither an insult, U know, I am poor and am sure the book'l take some time to reach the libraries, so hav no right to criticise; nor an inabbriated a/c of a frustrated denpo(A person who thinks knows too much). Somehow amongst all crimes, only rape seems to be highlighted. However, leaving the mentality of MAle-dominated lineARAGE, I'd argue that though these have diraect physical and hormonal damage, as far as mental trauma is concerned many crimes are as bad.  I argue the hymen exists elsewhere... There are many good things about feminism, but this I feel is a another form of reductionism.  Thankfully there exists something which still arouses the society.................... This was a hilarious start to some more grave issues, precisely 2 distinct one which I wish 2 take up, I ought have taken one of  them, concurrently 2 weeks ago, but precisely for long hours involved in editing, very conviniently shirked. First on Gurgaon: What I have learnt is in many pockets, Rickshaw pullers are called on their mobile phones,a truely novel thing........... My experiences are quite vivid with a similar, may be not in terms of investment and culture, but in pattern of development, Dwarka, on which I'll try to jointly elaborate on this issue, involving the 'biker Gang' as well(they include not only sikhs or even jaats but Biharis and UP'ites as ell) In every other convergence( classical ) model of 'development', we talk of convergence, adjustment of MPL/MPK( through various mechanisms, including learning in classical sense), a term which is dubious, for the latter is indeterminate,  promoted by free trade, What happens actually is quite different thing. Leaving out things like Wine, labour constitutes nearly 70% of a commodities cost. So, in development, in order to keep feed of properly skilled or highly skilled labour, at cheap rates, we need labour or mass labour to be cheaper....................... We can say thus two roads are created=== a high road, of people who can really afford the 22K+ flats in Gurgaon and the super-expensive sabzis et-al max cost extracted by the rentier clas and the Haftas, and outsiders, who have no stake in the place's culture. While Gurgaon even gets it's skilled feed from adjoining places like Dwarka, most of the workers in both places come from neighboiuring villages on Haryana which have their own culture, law and governance. The result is both the defenders and offenders come from the same place and culture, while the beneficiary or the woman on the street is left moire vulnerarable. However I'd reject all stories of reporting a crime which I fell are consoling stories, and attribute to the records of increasing crime a simple tendency Voyeurism, looking through Key-hole, diversed from immidiate society in immadiate conomic relations, a man does not 'belong to' his surroundings, nor a woman! A dead body was taken from a pool in Dwarka, A row of appartments lay opposite to the site. A amn robbed of his car and stabbed. There he lay, who knows alive and yet no body reported. MAy be of fear of getting picked up. But why, not even later? Another experience, quite distant explores deeper in. We have all seen stories of gals getting harrassed in hotels. Yet many of the good ones are strictly reluctant to keep a single woman sans indemnity from any influencial group. In villages they give shelter, in cities, devoid of clan and confidence, we turn essentially voyeuristic and sarcastic of everyone else, thus finding a friction of cultures here. In villages since a city dweller doesnt get mixed with them , except where he tries to snatch land from them, they are usually friendly............. Incity,a race is on A dal is on betting for union, Boldly, rules are broken, women insulted called randis, though I do not find any abuse in that except victinsising and mass humiliation, the conflict goes on. Here we are biharis, punjabis, tamils, marwaris, jainsetc, conflicting with each other out in the open. The friction of values much stronger. , , , ,  , , That is why women get little support and shelter here, because of dogmatism and narrow interest politics. Delhi is an elaboration, not an exception(Based on true experiences at a Kalibari at Safdarjung Enclave). Yup Gurgaon is gliterring coz it is newly planned, but we need expert health care etc there too! ________________________________ From: Naeem Mohaiemen To: sarai list Sent: Sunday, 9 August, 2009 8:49:31 PM Subject: [Reader-list] Sam Miller on Delhi "Twelve of India’s 54 billionaires live in the city, but the majority of its citizens are poor, powerless migrants from rural areas in India, Nepal and Bangladesh. It is one of the most unsafe cities in India for women, who are murdered, raped and harassed at home and in public more widely than anywhere else in the country, while the use of expensive ultrasound technology to enable the selective abortion some 24,000 female foetuses every year has resulted in a skewed sex ratio of 820 girls to every 1,000 boys." The National (UAE) In his new book, Sam Miller tackles Delhi’s disparities by walking through it, eschewing its new arterial roads and flyovers for back streets and slums. Siddhartha Deb considers the city he discovers. Delhi: Adventures in a Megacity Sam Miller Jonathan Cape Dh94 On October 31, 1984, the Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi was gunned down in her Delhi bungalow by two Sikh bodyguards. There was a bloody war going on between Sikh separatists and the Indian state, and the assassins were said to have been outraged by Gandhi’s decision to send soldiers into the Golden Temple, the holiest of Sikh shrines, to capture a separatist leader. After a brief period of calm, a process of savage retribution began in many parts of the country, directed at Sikhs who had nothing to do with the killing or the separatist movement. Delhi, despite being the most heavily policed city in the country, saw the worst of such violence. Leaders of the Congress party, then in power, led mobs through the alleyways of poor neighbourhoods like Trilokpuri, where they pillaged and murdered, often setting people on fire after dousing them with kerosene. By the time the army took control, nearly 3,000 people were dead. Twenty-five years later, none of the senior Congress functionaries who directed the mobs – and whose names are well known – have been punished. The killings of 1984 have instead become one more incident relegated to the past by an elite singularly obsessed with entering the future. As for Delhi, it has been busy transforming itself for the past decade, embracing the market economy of the West and furiously erecting shopping malls, five-star hotels and flyovers. The upper classes of Delhi talk about plans to remake it into a futuristic “world city” (a goal usually proclaimed by posters on the walls of public restrooms), and gesture with pride at the new train system whose steel-coloured cars can be seen racing across the skyline. But millennial Delhi remains an unequal, violent place. Twelve of India’s 54 billionaires live in the city, but the majority of its citizens are poor, powerless migrants from rural areas in India, Nepal and Bangladesh. It is one of the most unsafe cities in India for women, who are murdered, raped and harassed at home and in public more widely than anywhere else in the country, while the use of expensive ultrasound technology to enable the selective abortion some 24,000 female foetuses every year has resulted in a skewed sex ratio of 820 girls to every 1,000 boys. As for the new train system, it is an exception in a city where public transportation is erratic and unsafe and the roads are resolutely hostile to pedestrians. In every way, the high-rises and slums of Delhi are filled with so many stories of disparity that the city demands the kind of muckraking attention that Upton Sinclair, for instance, brought to a similarly corrupt Chicago a century ago. But even within India, there are few books on Delhi that compare to recent writing on Bombay, from Suketu Mehta’s nonfiction account, Maximum City, to Vikram Chandra’s thriller, Sacred Games. In spite of the city’s energetic publishing scene, its best writers, usually people who have migrated there from other parts of India, seem uncertain about how to engage their new home. This invisibility of Delhi, the way its most significant stories flare briefly into headlines before being rapidly extinguished, is something I think about every time I return there. So when I started reading Sam Miller’s Delhi: Adventures in a Megacity in a local bookstore, I was intrigued to find that he had tackled Delhi’s disparities head on by walking through it. Miller, a BBC journalist who has lived in the city for seven years, writes: “If you don’t walk in Delhi, large parts of the city will be invisible to you. Its slums are mainly situated away from the main roads, hidden from the upmarket residential areas.” He knows his project is dangerous – pavements and pedestrian crossings are rare, and speeding vehicles are known to run people over – but he thinks the effort worthwhile, not only for the narrative frisson it yields, but also because it increases the possibility of sudden, serendipitous encounters, especially with the hidden poor. A writer walking through the madness of Delhi needs a method, not least because the route one chooses determines the story. Miller is aware of his literary precedents: Baudelaire, whose flâneur strolled the boulevards of 19th-century Paris at night, thereby encountering pimps, prostitutes and police agents; WG Sebald, whose walks along the Norfolk coast of England in The Rings of Saturn offered a slow, melancholic consideration of the once-frenetic energy of the mansions and hotels of the region, now fallen into ruin; and Ian Sinclair, whose “psychogeographical” approach of walking along a route suggested by an arbitrary letter drawn on a London map helped create a portrait of a city unknown to tourists or gentrifiers. After reading about the concentric circles used to build Muslim cities in India, Miller chooses a spiralling circuit for himself. It was an astute decision, ensuring not only that he would cross tightly segregated demographic zones, but also that he would follow the circular layout of the old Connaught Circle and the two Ring Roads, once central to the city’s layout, but now obscured by the hauteur of straight arterial roads and looping overpasses. Miller starts his tour in the concentric circles of the British-built area of Connaught Place, then takes in the chowks of the Mughal city to the north known as Old Delhi, and wanders past the five-star hotels and high-walled bungalows of Luyten’s Delhi, a neighbourhood of politicians, bureaucrats and industrialists. As his spiral widens, he also navigates the affluent neighbourhoods of the south, the arriviste settlements of the west, and, just across the toxic strip of water that was once the Yamuna rivers, the middle-class clusters of the east. It is telling that he finds no fixed address, no set neighbourhood, for the poor. Instead, he encounters them in the interstices of the metropolis, sleeping on the streets and under flyovers, in blue plastic tents next to construction sites, or in slums that can be cleared away at a moment’s notice. Walking along the banks of the Yamuna, Miller sees on its east side the Akshardham temple complex, a sprawling monument of Hindu kitsch approved by the courts despite concerns that it would impede the river’s flow of water. Almost directly across from it, he finds a police barracks on the site of what was, until recently, Delhi’s largest slum, housing some 300,000 people. Such scenes are depicted with empathy by Miller, who uses the privileged eccentricity of his whiteness to engage in conversations that reveal much about lives usually relegated to the margins of the city’s consciousness. He meets butchers who interrupt their slaughter of buffaloes to threaten him with knives but who shake his hand before he leaves; a young woman who, slightly sick from the smell of industrial glue, offers the author a soda before returning to her job demonstrating a 10-foot long printer; and a man on a bicycle who uses a speaker magnet to collect traces of iron from vehicle emissions that he plans to sell for 30 cents a kilo. Miller’s prose has none of the baroque texture to be found in Baudelaire, Sebald and Sinclair, but he blends anecdotes and details well. His decision to emulate Sebald in placing small black-and-white photographs within the text is particularly successful, lending the book a kaleidoscopic feel that captures something of the ad hoc nature of the city. In a chapter on Old Delhi, we see a grainy picture of a suspected heroin dealer being beaten by two policemen against a dystopian-seeming backdrop of a crumbling mansion, a dead tree, piles of trash, and an audience of ragged children: “The violent policeman slapped him across the face. He recoiled in slow motion, his shoulder hunching up as if waiting for the next blow. Instead, the policemen began emptying his pockets. A piece of string, some tinfoil, some matches, a few coins, and what looked like a tightly folded empty crisp packet, secured with a rubber band. ‘Evidence,’ said the violent policeman, speaking a word of English for the first time, as he placed the little package in his pocket without opening it. And then his second world of English, just a little threateningly, a word of closure and command: ‘Goodbye,’ he said and waved me away.” There are many similar passages in the recent fiction anthology Delhi Noir, whose 14 contributors use noir conventions to offer scathing indictments of the brutality of the city’s police, the vulgarity of its upper classes, and the desperation of the poor (the first story, by Omair Ahmad, even reconstructs one of the killings of 1984). Unfortunately, the stories rarely achieve the intensity on display in Miller’s book. Often, their accounts of corrupt policeman and resentful servants merely expand on headlines without offering a fresh perspective or allowing for full immersion into the lives or city being depicted. Those that succeed – Siddharth Chowdhury’s Hostel, Hartosh Singh Bal’s Just Another Death, and the Hindi writer Uday Prakash’s The Walls of Delhi – do so because they are alert not just to the horrible things that happen in Delhi, but also to how it feels to observe and write about them. In Bal’s story, for instance, the idealistic narrator, an ambitous journalist who has investigated a random, insignificant killing ends his account abruptly, on a cynical note that captures the numbing effect of the city by borrowing the hard-boiled tone of the noir detective who, ultimately, cannot make a difference: “What Mohanty had just told me didn’t make the case any simpler – either the police or the councillor and his men were capable of such brutality. But at that moment, the facts didn’t matter. No one in this city gave a damn, and having made it so far, I was just beginning to realise neither did I.” Miller, too, has to come to some form of reckoning. At the end of his walk, he finds himself in the suburb of Gurgaon, surrounded by shopping malls and condominiums whose names (“Malibu Towne,” “Belvedere Park,” “Maple Heights”) have been copied from suburban America. Just a few pages earlier, he had visited similar housing developments expanding through fields of mustard, with former farmers doubtfully counting the cash they have made from selling their land, hoping their children will find service jobs in Gurgaon. Miller doesn’t like Gurgaon, but he repeats the conventional wisdom that “Gurgaon is probably the future, and Delhi, and other Indian cities, will become more and more like Gurgaon.” This is a false note in what is otherwise a remarkably perceptive book, for Gurgaon’s modernity is just as skin deep as Delhi’s, even if it has been laid on by more competent cosmetic surgeons. Its apartment blocks may be newer and cleaner, but they play out the same stories of disparity and its discontents. Gurgaon represents not a solution to the city’s problems, but an attempt to evade them in the manner characteristic of India’s elite in recent years. Such an evasion can work for only so long. There are already signs that the lopsided economic growth that made such subterfuge possible is beginning to give way to national slowdown. And in Delhi, one sees a return of the repressed. In April a Sikh journalist outraged at a government report absolving a Congress leader of responsibility in the killings of 1984 threw his shoe at the home minister. Meanwhile, there are biker gangs on the streets, carrying out petty muggings and the occasional murder. The perpetrators are thought to be the children of victims of the anti-Sikh riots of 1984, survivors who have decided that what prevails in Delhi is might, not justice. Siddhartha Deb is a fellow at Harvard University’s Radcliffe Institute, and he teaches creative writing at the New School. He is currently working on a nonfiction book about contemporary India. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ From aashu.gupta20 at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 07:57:35 2009 From: aashu.gupta20 at gmail.com (Aashish Gupta) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:57:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Right To Food Article's - 9 Message-ID: Continuing with Rakesh's endeavour. Shukriya dost. http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=RSSFeed-India&id=3f60f0e2-2817-4943-8f08-f93fbe59b453&Headline=Why+MP+is+India%e2%80%99s+Ethiopia Human development indicators suggest that Madhya Pradesh (MP) has descended to a state similar to that of Ethiopia, the global yardstick for hunger and deprivation. The state’s annual plan document, cleared by the Planning Commission on Friday, reveals that the nutritional levels of women and children in MP have been steadily sliding over the past 10 years. MP Chief Minister Shivraj Singh Chouhan attributed poor health indicators to low industrialisation of the state. At a meeting with plan panel officials, he sought a special package from the Centre for industrial development in tribal areas, which he thinks will improve the per capita income of the population. The percentage of under-weight children less than three years old has increased from 53.5 per cent in the National Family Health Survey (NFHS-2) report concluded in 1996 to 60.3 per cent in the latest NFHS-3. The latest survey on health indicators was conducted between 1996 and 2006. MP’s record stands in stark contrast to the national average that has fallen from 47 per cent to 45.90 per cent over decade ending in 2006. Similarly, the percentage of anaemic children has increased from 71.3 per cent to 82.6 per cent between the two surveys. The percentage of anaemic pregnant children, too, has increased from 49.9 per cent to 57.9 per cent. The infant mortality rate has, however, witnessed a fall from 88 per cent to 57 per cent. But it is much higher than the national average of 55 per cent. A senior Planning Comm-ission official, requesting anonymity, attributed poor nutritional standards to increasing hunger in the state. “It may be because of leakages in the public distribution system,” he remarked. Madhya Pradesh was one of the first states in India to distribute foodgrains to 32.4 per cent of its poor population at Rs 3 per kilo. According to the Indian State Hunger Index released in 2008, however, Madhya Pradesh, with a score of 30.9, had the largest number of hungry people in the country. The state was put in the “extremely alarming” bracket. In the International Hunger Index chart the same year, Ethiopia scored 31.06. Both indices are prepared on the basis of similar parameters by the International Food Policy Research Institute. A higher score on the chart indicates more hunger. The planners are worried to find that MP’s hunger record has worsened between 1994 and 2008, the years of two hunger indices for India. The per capita income of the state has increased slightly from Rs 12,384 in 1999-2000 to Rs 15,346 in 2007-08. In comparison, the national average has almost doubled from Rs 16,258 to Rs 33,000 in the same period. From javedmasoo at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 08:10:37 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:10:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite Message-ID: Crime and No Punishment Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite Ram Puniyani Eleven suspects of Malegaon blast, September 9, 2008, got a breather (August 01, 2009) when the special court dropped the charges under MCCOA against 11 suspects of the crime. Prosecution failed to show that all accused were member of a single organized crime syndicate. This MCOCA act also requires that there should be two previous charge sheets against one of them. Since the case prepared by police could not prove these the charges have been dropped. The ATS and Maharashtra Chief Minister have stated that they will ensure that they will go to the higher courts, against the order of this court decision. In past Congress has not undertaken any serious efforts to punish the guilty, so this statement of the authorities has to be taken with a pinch of salt. MCCOA apart, the overall scenario and line of investigation followed by police has left lot of ground uncovered which can come handy for the culprits getting away lightly if the police does not do its home work well. There may also be deeper political dimensions to the issue as well. The first point which struck the observers so far was that for a long time police line of investigation in the blast cases was based on the premise that some Muslim group is involved in the crime. This created two problems. One was that the innocents kept getting arrested and tortured and second that the real culprits could hide under the cover provided by the popular perception about terrorism. The vicious cycle was broken by Hemant Karakre with the impeccable evidence in the form of the Motor cycle of Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur from the crowded lane of Malegaon. Her link led to several people and many organizations. The people involved were Swami Dayanand Pandey, Lt Col Prasad Shrikant Puroit, Ajay Rahirar, retired Major Ramesh Upadhayay, Rakesh Dhavade and many others. The connections with Abhinva Bharat, Hindu Jagran Samiti, Army units, Bhonsala Military School (Nagpur and Nashik), Akanksha Resort Sinhgad all emerged and the picture of a broad conspiracy became clear. The investigating officer, Hemant Karkare, about whose death in 26/11 terror attack, Antulay raised certain questions, faced immense pressure due to criticism from Hindu right wingers, Thackeray’s paper Saamana went on to say that they spit on the face of such a anti-national person like Karkare, and some others also called him as Deshdrohi. One does not know what direct/indirect impact all this had on the future drafting of the charge sheet. Human Rights activist Teesta Setalvad in her articles in Communalism Combat Feb 2009 raised several questions about the charge sheet, which remain unanswered. One recalls that the Nanded blast (April 2006) case investigation itself was very much muted and it was only the pressure of campaign form Rights activists that the investigation was pursued. Rakesh Dhawade, one of the accused in the Malegaon charge sheet had confessed to his involvement in the training of few youth, for the preparation and detonation of bombs. The training was done near the Sinhgad Fort, Pune, in July-August 2003. Despite this he was allowed to be discharged from the Purbea masjid blast case on July 27, 2009! ATS says it was because the local police did not file a strong enough charge sheet! One does not know whether it is a lack of coordination or there is something deeper to this? It is beyond one’s comprehension as to why section 125, waging war against the Indian Nation, has not been applied to these accused. In this case the involvement of the serving military officers and the retired ones has not been probed. It has ramifications far deeper then can be seen from the surface. These military officers had the background of Bhonsla Military School, which is practically controlled by RSS. The RSS has its wing for retired military personnel and has a lot of emphasis on cultivating connections with men in uniform. The theft of 60 Kilograms of RDX by Purohit is a pointer of what the serving and military officers can do once they are ideologically indoctrinated by the notions other than that of secular democratic India. Purohit in his narco analysis on 9th November 2008 had revealed about his role in Samjhauta Express blast and a possible role Mecca Masjid blast. There are multiple aspects of the case involved. One does not support MCCOA at all, it is not only arbitrary and draconian; it also is a refuge for police not to undertake the trouble for deeper investigation and doing its home work properly. Even if one does not trust the narco analysis, there are enough other evidences to link up all these accused indoctrinated by RSS ideology. The point is why so many links which are there for all to see are not followed? Why resort to the short cut of MCOCA, or Narco analysis. The core point is the biases of the state apparatus, political, bureaucratic and that of police in particular which has resulted in evolution of two sets of justice delivery systems. One is for the affluent and privileged that can get away with whatever they want and the second is for the weaker sections, including minorities. Here right from the police investigation to the charge sheeting, the political influence and biases which influence the process of justice delivery (or the lack of it) and the final verdict all are having a tinge of bias. The political polices do determine the whole process. It is such outcomes which make a section of population feel that they are used merely as vote banks and when the time of justice comes they are not considered at all. If the culprits of Malegaon are treated with kid gloves under the theory that violence from Hindu fold is retaliatory that will be the travesty of justice of the worst order. From taraprakash at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 08:47:45 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 23:17:45 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamicsof Change By Richard Shapiro References: <998134.50656.qm@web39101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <65be9bf40908091201v3df03fa1w3f3c4a80ba160013@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9EE0A90C05304A8EBEFE2ACC21D4E80E@tara> Dear Taha. Since this reply may not be of any interest to other listers, I am keeping it off line. I think your suggestion is worth considering. And if the circumstances did not deter me, I would definitely do so. The fact is that I do not follow Indian media much. I got to know about Manipur's current situation from this list. And after that 1 mail I was expecting some postings from "human" rights activists. Being out of touch, I do not know how human is being defined these days. As time permits, I will be able to do justice to your expectations. I have done my share of contributions towards various social movements, including those going on in NagaLand and mManiPur when I was in India. Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Taha Mehmood" <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> To: "taraprakash" ; "Sarai Reader-list" Cc: "A.K. Malik" ; "Inder Salim" Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Dynamicsof Change By Richard Shapiro > Dear Taraprakash, > > Thank you for bringing this important aspect about the list to our notice. > > May I join you in saying that for many years I used to think on > exactly the same lines with respect to the issue of identity, identity > cards and other identification practices. Now maybe I have less reason > to feel so aggrieved. > > The point being, this list as you may have realized is depended on > mails posted on a voluntary basis, therefore, may I take this > opportunity to call upon you to bring to our notice all or any stories > which relate to Manipur or any other non-Muslim issue, which > particularly, you would like list members to > read/comment/reflect/respond or engage in any other form. > > Warm regards > > Taha From taraprakash at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 09:07:18 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 23:37:18 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on References: <13D1486371794E08BAD8CE2CAF7A7744@tara> Message-ID: <65454551ED4A4F69BDD2350D81A1382B@tara> Dear LA and all. Being blind myself, the derogatory, insensitive and offensive use of the word "blind" is the main issue for me. It may be a digression from discussion on Shapiro's article, but for those like me who are fighting to get equality and fair treatment for the differently abled, this is the main point. Let us try to recognize that what is margin for us may be the center for others. Let me again urge you not to equate "blind" with stupid and ignorant person. Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: Lalit Ambardar To: taraprakash at gmail.com ; justjunaid at gmail.com ; 425063.70526.qm at web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com ; reader-list at sarai.net Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 6:23 AM Subject: RE: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on No. The ‘word’ was very clearly meant to describe those who are very much ‘sighted’ but are undiscerning & undiscriminating & because of their 'blind faith' see any objectivity in that ‘propaganda’ paper. And let us not digress,please. Regards all LA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: taraprakash at gmail.com > To: lalitambardar at hotmail.com; justjunaid at gmail.com; 425063.70526.qm at web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com; reader-list at sarai.net > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:13:07 -0400 > > Dear all and dear LA. > > The blind, just as the sighted throughout the world, will have different > opinions about this article. Some blind readers will find it biased, others > may find it objective. Whatever you wanted to state, please do not equate > blindness with foolishness. Let us not use the term "blind" in any > derogatory sense. The word means only one thing, a creature that does not > have eye-sight. > > Thanks > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lalit Ambardar" > To: ; <425063.70526.qm at web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com>; > > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 10:10 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on > > > > > > > > > > > > One must be blind to > > miss the glaring bias in this what could best be described as propaganda > > material > > (if this was an essay, then Goebbels deserved a ‘Noble’ for literature) . > > > > > > > > Regards all > > > > LA > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 21:38:12 +0530 > >> From: justjunaid at gmail.com > >> To: 425063.70526.qm at web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com; reader-list at sarai.net > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on > >> > >> Hi Kshmendra, > >> > >> You have described Prof. Shapiro's essay as "replete with prejudice, > >> bias, > >> ill-concieved presumptions and mis-constructed deductions". Could you > >> actually elaborate and give reasons for your characterization of the > >> essay. > >> > >> Junaid > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > News, sports, entertainment and fine living…learn the ropes on MSN India > > http://in.msn.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Are you an untamed, bizarre or daring explorer? Find out now! Drag n’ drop From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 09:15:21 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:15:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 8 In-Reply-To: <5bedab660908090428q6e8e73fam749e712681691358@mail.gmail.com> References: <5bedab660908071049u7ccc0a07xb024734f89a74a41@mail.gmail.com> <5bedab660908090428q6e8e73fam749e712681691358@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: No issues Pheeta jee in that case. From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Mon Aug 10 09:28:54 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:28:54 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] on Delhi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <151007.31094.qm@web94705.mail.in2.yahoo.com> ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: subhrodip sengupta To: Readers list Yousuf Sarai. Sent: Monday, 10 August, 2009 1:57:29 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] on Delhi U know, I attended a seminaar by some reknowned Social Worker. Evry 3rd line was 'Aur Ma-beheno ke saath shosan hota hain!' (for present purposes,chicks not allowed!) Hilariously, most of the so called moms and sis left the discussion tired of the topic. True a hilarious note, but neither an insult, U know, I am poor and am sure the book'l take some time to reach the libraries, so hav no right to criticise; nor an inabbriated a/c of a frustrated denpo(A person who thinks knows too much). Somehow amongst all crimes, only rape seems to be highlighted. However, leaving the mentality of MAle-dominated lineARAGE, I'd argue that though these have diraect physical and hormonal damage, as far as mental trauma is concerned many crimes are as bad.  I argue the hymen exists elsewhere... There are many good things about feminism, but this I feel is a another form of reductionism.  Thankfully there exists something which still arouses the society................... This was a hilarious start to some more grave issues, precisely 2 distinct one which I wish 2 take up, I ought have taken one of  them, concurrently 2 weeks ago, but precisely for long hours involved in editing, very conviniently shirked. First on Gurgaon: What I have learnt is in many pockets, Rickshaw pullers are called on their mobile phones,a truely novel thing........... My experiences are quite vivid with a similar, may be not in terms of investment and culture, but in pattern of development, Dwarka, on which I'll try to jointly elaborate on this issue, involving the 'biker Gang' as well(they include not only sikhs or even jaats but Biharis and UP'ites as ell) In every other convergence( classical ) model of 'development', we talk of convergence, adjustment of MPL/MPK( through various mechanisms, including learning in classical sense), a term which is dubious, for the latter is indeterminate,  promoted by free trade, What happens actually is quite different thing. Leaving out things like Wine, labour constitutes nearly 70% of a commodities cost. So, in development, in order to keep feed of properly skilled or highly skilled labour, at cheap rates, we need labour or mass labour to be cheaper....................... We can say thus two roads are created=== a high road, of people who can really afford the 22K+ flats in Gurgaon and the super-expensive sabzis et-al max cost extracted by the rentier clas and the Haftas, and outsiders, who have no stake in the place's culture. While Gurgaon even gets it's skilled feed from adjoining places like Dwarka, most of the workers in both places come from neighboiuring villages on Haryana which have their own culture, law and governance. The result is both the defenders and offenders come from the same place and culture, while the beneficiary or the woman on the street is left moire vulnerarable. However I'd reject all stories of reporting a crime which I fell are consoling stories, and attribute to the records of increasing crime a simple tendency Voyeurism, looking through Key-hole, diversed from immidiate society in immadiate conomic relations, a man does not 'belong to' his surroundings, nor a woman! A dead body was taken from a pool in Dwarka, A row of appartments lay opposite to the site. A amn robbed of his car and stabbed. There he lay, who knows alive and yet no body reported. MAy be of fear of getting picked up. But why, not even later? Another experience, quite distant explores deeper in. We have all seen stories of gals getting harrassed in hotels. Yet many of the good ones are strictly reluctant to keep a single woman sans indemnity from any influencial group. In villages they give shelter, in cities, devoid of clan and confidence, we turn essentially voyeuristic and sarcastic of everyone else, thus finding a friction of cultures here. In villages since a city dweller doesnt get mixed with them , except where he tries to snatch land from them, they are usually friendly............. Incity,a race is on A dal is on betting for union, Boldly, rules are broken, women insulted called randis, though I do not find any abuse in that except victinsising and mass humiliation, the conflict goes on. Here we are biharis, punjabis, tamils, marwaris, jainsetc, conflicting with each other out in the open. The friction of values much stronger. , , , ,  , , That is why women get little support and shelter here, because of dogmatism and narrow interest politics. Delhi is an elaboration, not an exception(Based on true experiences at a Kalibari at Safdarjung Enclave). Yup Gurgaon is gliterring coz it is newly planned, but we need expert health care etc there too! ________________________________ From: Naeem Mohaiemen To: sarai list Sent: Sunday, 9 August, 2009 8:49:31 PM Subject: [Reader-list] Sam Miller on Delhi "Twelve of India’s 54 billionaires live in the city, but the majority of its citizens are poor, powerless migrants from rural areas in India, Nepal and Bangladesh. It is one of the most unsafe cities in India for women, who are murdered, raped and harassed at home and in public more widely than anywhere else in the country, while the use of expensive ultrasound technology to enable the selective abortion some 24,000 female foetuses every year has resulted in a skewed sex ratio of 820 girls to every 1,000 boys." The National (UAE) In his new book, Sam Miller tackles Delhi’s disparities by walking through it, eschewing its new arterial roads and flyovers for back streets and slums. Siddhartha Deb considers the city he discovers. Delhi: Adventures in a Megacity Sam Miller Jonathan Cape Dh94 On October 31, 1984, the Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi was gunned down in her Delhi bungalow by two Sikh bodyguards. There was a bloody war going on between Sikh separatists and the Indian state, and the assassins were said to have been outraged by Gandhi’s decision to send soldiers into the Golden Temple, the holiest of Sikh shrines, to capture a separatist leader. After a brief period of calm, a process of savage retribution began in many parts of the country, directed at Sikhs who had nothing to do with the killing or the separatist movement. Delhi, despite being the most heavily policed city in the country, saw the worst of such violence. Leaders of the Congress party, then in power, led mobs through the alleyways of poor neighbourhoods like Trilokpuri, where they pillaged and murdered, often setting people on fire after dousing them with kerosene. By the time the army took control, nearly 3,000 people were dead. Twenty-five years later, none of the senior Congress functionaries who directed the mobs – and whose names are well known – have been punished. The killings of 1984 have instead become one more incident relegated to the past by an elite singularly obsessed with entering the future. As for Delhi, it has been busy transforming itself for the past decade, embracing the market economy of the West and furiously erecting shopping malls, five-star hotels and flyovers. The upper classes of Delhi talk about plans to remake it into a futuristic “world city” (a goal usually proclaimed by posters on the walls of public restrooms), and gesture with pride at the new train system whose steel-coloured cars can be seen racing across the skyline. But millennial Delhi remains an unequal, violent place. Twelve of India’s 54 billionaires live in the city, but the majority of its citizens are poor, powerless migrants from rural areas in India, Nepal and Bangladesh. It is one of the most unsafe cities in India for women, who are murdered, raped and harassed at home and in public more widely than anywhere else in the country, while the use of expensive ultrasound technology to enable the selective abortion some 24,000 female foetuses every year has resulted in a skewed sex ratio of 820 girls to every 1,000 boys. As for the new train system, it is an exception in a city where public transportation is erratic and unsafe and the roads are resolutely hostile to pedestrians. In every way, the high-rises and slums of Delhi are filled with so many stories of disparity that the city demands the kind of muckraking attention that Upton Sinclair, for instance, brought to a similarly corrupt Chicago a century ago. But even within India, there are few books on Delhi that compare to recent writing on Bombay, from Suketu Mehta’s nonfiction account, Maximum City, to Vikram Chandra’s thriller, Sacred Games. In spite of the city’s energetic publishing scene, its best writers, usually people who have migrated there from other parts of India, seem uncertain about how to engage their new home. This invisibility of Delhi, the way its most significant stories flare briefly into headlines before being rapidly extinguished, is something I think about every time I return there. So when I started reading Sam Miller’s Delhi: Adventures in a Megacity in a local bookstore, I was intrigued to find that he had tackled Delhi’s disparities head on by walking through it. Miller, a BBC journalist who has lived in the city for seven years, writes: “If you don’t walk in Delhi, large parts of the city will be invisible to you. Its slums are mainly situated away from the main roads, hidden from the upmarket residential areas.” He knows his project is dangerous – pavements and pedestrian crossings are rare, and speeding vehicles are known to run people over – but he thinks the effort worthwhile, not only for the narrative frisson it yields, but also because it increases the possibility of sudden, serendipitous encounters, especially with the hidden poor. A writer walking through the madness of Delhi needs a method, not least because the route one chooses determines the story. Miller is aware of his literary precedents: Baudelaire, whose flâneur strolled the boulevards of 19th-century Paris at night, thereby encountering pimps, prostitutes and police agents; WG Sebald, whose walks along the Norfolk coast of England in The Rings of Saturn offered a slow, melancholic consideration of the once-frenetic energy of the mansions and hotels of the region, now fallen into ruin; and Ian Sinclair, whose “psychogeographical” approach of walking along a route suggested by an arbitrary letter drawn on a London map helped create a portrait of a city unknown to tourists or gentrifiers. After reading about the concentric circles used to build Muslim cities in India, Miller chooses a spiralling circuit for himself. It was an astute decision, ensuring not only that he would cross tightly segregated demographic zones, but also that he would follow the circular layout of the old Connaught Circle and the two Ring Roads, once central to the city’s layout, but now obscured by the hauteur of straight arterial roads and looping overpasses. Miller starts his tour in the concentric circles of the British-built area of Connaught Place, then takes in the chowks of the Mughal city to the north known as Old Delhi, and wanders past the five-star hotels and high-walled bungalows of Luyten’s Delhi, a neighbourhood of politicians, bureaucrats and industrialists. As his spiral widens, he also navigates the affluent neighbourhoods of the south, the arriviste settlements of the west, and, just across the toxic strip of water that was once the Yamuna rivers, the middle-class clusters of the east. It is telling that he finds no fixed address, no set neighbourhood, for the poor. Instead, he encounters them in the interstices of the metropolis, sleeping on the streets and under flyovers, in blue plastic tents next to construction sites, or in slums that can be cleared away at a moment’s notice. Walking along the banks of the Yamuna, Miller sees on its east side the Akshardham temple complex, a sprawling monument of Hindu kitsch approved by the courts despite concerns that it would impede the river’s flow of water. Almost directly across from it, he finds a police barracks on the site of what was, until recently, Delhi’s largest slum, housing some 300,000 people. Such scenes are depicted with empathy by Miller, who uses the privileged eccentricity of his whiteness to engage in conversations that reveal much about lives usually relegated to the margins of the city’s consciousness. He meets butchers who interrupt their slaughter of buffaloes to threaten him with knives but who shake his hand before he leaves; a young woman who, slightly sick from the smell of industrial glue, offers the author a soda before returning to her job demonstrating a 10-foot long printer; and a man on a bicycle who uses a speaker magnet to collect traces of iron from vehicle emissions that he plans to sell for 30 cents a kilo. Miller’s prose has none of the baroque texture to be found in Baudelaire, Sebald and Sinclair, but he blends anecdotes and details well. His decision to emulate Sebald in placing small black-and-white photographs within the text is particularly successful, lending the book a kaleidoscopic feel that captures something of the ad hoc nature of the city. In a chapter on Old Delhi, we see a grainy picture of a suspected heroin dealer being beaten by two policemen against a dystopian-seeming backdrop of a crumbling mansion, a dead tree, piles of trash, and an audience of ragged children: “The violent policeman slapped him across the face. He recoiled in slow motion, his shoulder hunching up as if waiting for the next blow. Instead, the policemen began emptying his pockets. A piece of string, some tinfoil, some matches, a few coins, and what looked like a tightly folded empty crisp packet, secured with a rubber band. ‘Evidence,’ said the violent policeman, speaking a word of English for the first time, as he placed the little package in his pocket without opening it. And then his second world of English, just a little threateningly, a word of closure and command: ‘Goodbye,’ he said and waved me away.” There are many similar passages in the recent fiction anthology Delhi Noir, whose 14 contributors use noir conventions to offer scathing indictments of the brutality of the city’s police, the vulgarity of its upper classes, and the desperation of the poor (the first story, by Omair Ahmad, even reconstructs one of the killings of 1984). Unfortunately, the stories rarely achieve the intensity on display in Miller’s book. Often, their accounts of corrupt policeman and resentful servants merely expand on headlines without offering a fresh perspective or allowing for full immersion into the lives or city being depicted. Those that succeed – Siddharth Chowdhury’s Hostel, Hartosh Singh Bal’s Just Another Death, and the Hindi writer Uday Prakash’s The Walls of Delhi – do so because they are alert not just to the horrible things that happen in Delhi, but also to how it feels to observe and write about them. In Bal’s story, for instance, the idealistic narrator, an ambitous journalist who has investigated a random, insignificant killing ends his account abruptly, on a cynical note that captures the numbing effect of the city by borrowing the hard-boiled tone of the noir detective who, ultimately, cannot make a difference: “What Mohanty had just told me didn’t make the case any simpler – either the police or the councillor and his men were capable of such brutality. But at that moment, the facts didn’t matter. No one in this city gave a damn, and having made it so far, I was just beginning to realise neither did I.” Miller, too, has to come to some form of reckoning. At the end of his walk, he finds himself in the suburb of Gurgaon, surrounded by shopping malls and condominiums whose names (“Malibu Towne,” “Belvedere Park,” “Maple Heights”) have been copied from suburban America. Just a few pages earlier, he had visited similar housing developments expanding through fields of mustard, with former farmers doubtfully counting the cash they have made from selling their land, hoping their children will find service jobs in Gurgaon. Miller doesn’t like Gurgaon, but he repeats the conventional wisdom that “Gurgaon is probably the future, and Delhi, and other Indian cities, will become more and more like Gurgaon.” This is a false note in what is otherwise a remarkably perceptive book, for Gurgaon’s modernity is just as skin deep as Delhi’s, even if it has been laid on by more competent cosmetic surgeons. Its apartment blocks may be newer and cleaner, but they play out the same stories of disparity and its discontents. Gurgaon represents not a solution to the city’s problems, but an attempt to evade them in the manner characteristic of India’s elite in recent years. Such an evasion can work for only so long. There are already signs that the lopsided economic growth that made such subterfuge possible is beginning to give way to national slowdown. And in Delhi, one sees a return of the repressed. In April a Sikh journalist outraged at a government report absolving a Congress leader of responsibility in the killings of 1984 threw his shoe at the home minister. Meanwhile, there are biker gangs on the streets, carrying out petty muggings and the occasional murder. The perpetrators are thought to be the children of victims of the anti-Sikh riots of 1984, survivors who have decided that what prevails in Delhi is might, not justice. Siddhartha Deb is a fellow at Harvard University’s Radcliffe Institute, and he teaches creative writing at the New School. He is currently working on a nonfiction book about contemporary India. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> ________________________________ Looking for local information? Find it on Yahoo! Local Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Mon Aug 10 09:42:54 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:42:54 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Inedia launches 7 eyes in the sky....... Message-ID: <181932.52394.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> 7 satelites shall 'boost' India's defence.... the authorities claim, & conforming media flaunts. This project has been on, for quite a while say more than 5 years of introducting low Hemispherial many satellites instead of one heavy sattelite, people from DRDO and IIT's have been improving the software potentials of image analysis, yet this news tells me some more expenditure is made on improving resolution, bulky expenses, if we talk of Space & Aviation Research......... One thing I can not understand why does not India's Defence suit her peculiarity, strengths and weaknesses. Do we think that US is a highly safe place and achieved Gold Standards in NAtional security?   That apart, when we have millions to feed, medicate and educate, innovating ways and means for defence expenses, and defence companies giving huge ads is all a wastage, seems there is more to this logic than true concerns as usual...... See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ From rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 13:04:15 2009 From: rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com (Rajkamal Goswami) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:04:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A follow up...............silence won't count anymore! In-Reply-To: <9d0d777b0908100033hdd61dbbo8dfaa544e56e51f4@mail.gmail.com> References: <9d0d777b0908100033hdd61dbbo8dfaa544e56e51f4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9d0d777b0908100034g2b5ad1a1h51af4379ceb1d3e8@mail.gmail.com> *CURRENT AFFAIRS* *cover story* *Life In A Shadow Land* *As Manipur comes to a boil in the aftermath of a fake encounter, **SHOMA CHAUDHURY** maps the fractured truths and complex wars raging in the state. Photographs by **SHAILENDRA PANDEY* ON JULY 23, 2009, on an ordinary day in Imphal, six people were going about their morning chores in a crowded market on BT Road. P Lukhoi Singh, a rider working with the Assam Rifles, had just delivered a packet to the SP (CID) and had stopped to chat with a friend. Gimamgal, a peon, was cycling to work. Ningthonjam Keshorani, mother of three, was selling fruit. W Gita Rani had just visited her doctor and was trying to catch an autorickshaw. Rabina Devi, five months pregnant, was holding her 2-year-old son Russel’s hand and buying a banana before she met up with her husband, working at a mobile shop. And 22-year-old Chongkham Sanjit, a former insurgent, was on his way to buy medicine for a sick uncle in hospital. [image: image]*Counter kills* Sanjit, killed in cold blood; Rabina Devi lies next to him, shot by accident *View slideshow *** Suddenly, a young man ran from a police frisking. Shots rang out. Lukhoi Singh heard a sound like “automatic firing” and tried to duck beneath his motorbike but was badly hit. He saw two cops walking into the crowd, firing. He told them he was hurt but they did not stop. Gimamgal heard a burst of sound and kept cycling. He didn’t realise he had been hit till he saw blood pouring down his body. His left arm was shattered. N Keshorani heard the gunfire and started to push her fruit cart away but buckled suddenly. She had been shot in the calf. Gita Rani just heard a sound. She didn’t realise she had been hit till she saw blood staining her chest. Rabina Devi just dropped dead. A bullet went straight through her forehead and out of her neck. Her little son saw his mother lying in a pool of blood and began to scream. Sanjit was standing at a PCO when within minutes he was surrounded by commandos. There were four civilians injured and one dead on the road: the cops needed an alibi. On that busy road, in the middle of a crowded market, in full view of Manipur’s citizens, Sanjit was dragged into a pharmacy next door and shot point blank. His body was then dragged out by the commandos and tossed into a truck along with Rabina Devi. All of this passed for a routine day in Manipur. The area was not cordoned off, no forensics were called in. The State Assembly was in session when the incident happened. By late afternoon, Chief Minister Ibobi Singh had tabled a statement saying Sanjit, a member of PLA, a proscribed militant outfit, had shot five civilians while trying to escape a police frisking but Manipur’s brave commandos had killed him in an encounter. A 9mm Mauser was found on him. The CM also said there was no way to stem the menace of insurgents except to “eliminate” them (a statement he later denied). The Opposition swallowed the story without question. Everyone went back to business. Manipur is a dark shadow land. Nothing there is what it seems. Fear and fatigue have become its universal character traits. It is estimated that about 300 people have been killed in 2009 alone between insurgents and state forces. But nobody dares to raise any questions. People suspect things, but in the absence of proof, they look away. Each time someone dies, the neighbourhood constitutes a Joint Action Committee (JAC). Token protests are made, sometimes followed by token compensations, and everyone tries to live on. The same would have happened this time, except an anonymous photographer captured the damning extra-judicial killing of Sanjit on camera. Terrified of publishing the pictures in local papers, the photographer contacted TEHELKA. Our story – *Murder in Plain Sight *– published last week was like a pressure cooker burst. As the story traveled, protests erupted across the state. People everywhere poured into the streets, demanding a judicial enquiry and the chief minister’s resignation. Young boys fought off commandos with slingshots and marbles. Women stretched their *phaneks* across roads as deterrents (Manipuri men are traditionally forbidden to touch women’s clothes drying on a clothesline) and openly courted arrested. As L Gyaneshwari, a women protestor recovering in hospital, says, “TEHELKA opened the gates to the tears blocked within us. We have always known the truth about these killings but we never had any evidence and had lost the strength to speak. Now, we’ve found courage again. If a vegetable vendor had not grabbed Rabina Devi’s bag and kept it with her, the commandos would have put a 9mm in it and passed her off as a militant as well.” “TEHELKA has woken up Manipur,” says Arun Irengbam, editor of the news daily, *Ireipak.* The sentiment runs strong. “We cannot thank TEHELKA enough for bringing the truth to light,” says Dayanada Chingtham, co-ordinator of the Apunba Lup, an apex body of activist groups. “We wish you had done this story two years earlier, our police have become too brazen,” says a man, working — ironically — in the office of Joy Kumar, the DGP of Police and the man, in a sense, at the heart of the storm. True to script, as the valley erupted in unarmed protest, the State responded with typical ham-handedness. Commandos were deployed everywhere and protestors were beaten back with water cannons, tear gas and smoke bombs. Curfew was imposed. In a telling detail, Rabina Devi’s grandmother, MRK Rajesana, was among a group of elderly women marching towards the Governor’s house when they were stopped by commandos. “Arrest us”, they taunted. Instead, the cops began to hurl smoke bombs at them. Some of the old women ran into a tiny chicken shop for shelter and pulled the shutter down. A cop found a small chink in the shutter and threw three smoke bombs in. “Die, you hags”, he shouted. Imagine the outrage of the grandmother: a pregnant granddaughter shot dead, buying a banana, and now the oppressive suffocations of a vengeful State. “Manipur’s women fought the British in 1904 and 1939. We fought the Indian army in 2004 for Manorama Devi. It is time for another *nupi lal* (women’s war). I am inviting our women to come forward for another war,” says she. *‘The problem is as much with Delhi as with Imphal. The situation in Manipur can get much worse than Jammu and Kashmir but the Centre just does not want to recognise it’* *Ved Marwah,* former governor of Manipur The central hospital in Manipur is full of such brewing stories. KH Lokhen Singh, an autorickshaw driver, was walking down the road, not even part of a protest, when a passing commando hurled a smoke bomb at him. As the bomb exploded, Lokhen’s face was scalded. He lies in a hospital room now, face burnt, blinded. His tiny two-yearold daughter Sangeeta — a baby with an angelic face — lies sleeping on the floor on a mat beside him. Finally, on August 5, 2009, a full week after the story first broke, Chief Minister Ibobi Singh called a press conference, admitted he had been misguided into making a false statement about the “unfortunate incident”, and promised a judicial enquiry. Six commandos, including a sub-inspector, were suspended. Though protests continued to rage across the state even after his announcement, for the moment, the immediate crisis seems to have been defused. THE FAKE encounter of July 23, however, tells a darker story about Manipur. It lays bare the pent up triumvirate of emotions that have come to dominate the psyche of people here: extreme fear, extreme distrust and extreme fatigue. Speak to anyone in the state — the sweetshop owner at the airport, the taxi driver, historians, housewives, journalists, activists, vendors, doctors, mechanics — and despair curdles just beneath. Everybody has stories to tell. Stories of extortion. Kidnapping. Threats. Demand notes. Corruption. And extra-judicial killing. Far away from the national gaze, in fact, this tiny emerald valley surrounded by cloud-kissed emerald hills is on the verge of internal collapse. Much of this contemporary mess has historical roots. Manipur has never entirely been a willing participant of the Indian Union. Its dominant community — the Meiteis — claim a proud and unbroken history that goes back 2,000 years. In 1947, when the British left, the Manipur Kingdom established itself as a constitutional monarchy and held elections to its own parliament. Two years later, in 1949, the Maharaja of Manipur agreed to (or was forced to, claim the Meiteis) merge with India. First as an inferior C-State, then in 1963 as an Union Territory, and finally in 1972 as a State of India. *‘Guns will not stop the insurgency. Just stop the cycle of killing and peace will come. We can earn money, we can manage our family, but “the Act” is beyond bearing’* *L Mem Choubi,* Apunba Lup Almost immediately, in 1964, the first underground movement for independence was born as the United National Liberation Front (UNLF). Other insurgent outfits with varying versions of nationalism followed in the 1970s: the PLA, the PREPAK, the KCP, the KYKL. But these were not all. Manipur is made up of a rainbow community. Fifty seven percent of its people are the Vaishnavite Hindu Meiteis, who live dominantly in the valley. In the surrounding hills live the Nagas, Kukis and Mizo- Chin tribes. The Nagas and Kukis, which themselves have sub-groups, are mostly Christian. About seven percent of the state’s population is made up of Muslims — Pangals — who also live in the valley in a district called Thoubal. Historically, the Meiteis have always felt and behaved superior to the hill tribes. Predictably then, each of these communities have sprouted their own militant underground movements. The Naga movement, in fact, predates the UNLF to the 1950s. To simplify a long and complex history, what all of this essentially means is that over the years, this tiny valley with a population of no more than 25 lakh people has sprouted almost 40 insurgent groups. Some of them are fighting the Indian State; many of them are fighting each other. Equally, as Central funds for development have poured into the valley, but failed to climb the hills, the fights have become less over identity and more over money. With an eye on the pie, many of the big insurgent groups have splintered into innumerable small factions. As every Manipuri citizen will tell you with disgust: “Every sub-ethnic group in Manipur has its own militia, and every militia has its own extortion industry.” The stories of extortion in Manipur are epic. All well-heeled citizens are routinely sent “demand notes” in the form of threat calls, kidnappings, grenades or Chinese bombs hurled into shops and homes, or outright killings. Apart from these individual payouts, every government contract or development fund has a fixed scaffold of cuts that go to the underground – or “UG” as they are collectively known. These fixed cuts have now peaked at 38 percent of every project. In early 2009, Dr Kishan, a officer of the Manipur Civil Service, was shot for resisting extortion demands from a development fund. As historian and former Apunba Lup leader, Lokendra Arambam — an eloquent and disillusioned elder — puts it mildly, “There has been a qualitative degeneration of the militants.” Things are so bleak that the outfits that restrict themselves to “institutional extortion” are now seen as honourable or principled. EVERY ETHNIC GROUP HAS ITS OWN MILITIA, EVERY MILITIA HAS ITS OWN EXTORTION INDUSTRY The UG is everywhere in Manipur, permeating the skin of everyday life. Most of them run parallel governments, complete with Finance-in-Charge, Auditor General and Secretaries of military and cultural affairs. In several heinous incidents, as in the infamous Heirok village episode, the PREPAK group — fanatic revivalists who want the Meiteis to go back to their pre-Hindu past — walked into a village celebrating a pre-Diwali ceremony and shot a boy and girl in cold blood as a lesson for the village. But the trouble is, the UG is only one facet of the fear that stalks Manipur. The more damning facet — because you are groomed to expect better from it — is the State itself. LIKE CHAUVINISTIC nation States everywhere in the world, from the very start, India has responded to the riddles of identity in the North-East with brute force rather than patient dialogue. In 1958, it responded to the Naga movement with a draconian version of an old colonial law: The Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA). This Act allows even junior officers of the army to arrest, torture or kill any citizen on mere suspicion, and to search and destroy property without a warrant. It also stipulates that no army officer or jawan can be punished without the sanction of the Central government. With every passing year, different districts of Manipur were brought under this Act. By 1980, all of Manipur had begun to live under its shadow. It is difficult to imagine the history of violence this Act has brought to Manipur, and the “psychology of impunity” it has bred. Think of a conflict zone — a place where death comes easy, where everyone is jumpy — and think of young men enabled to do as they please, ungoverned by law, unmindful of any punishment. *‘Our morality was so muddied and the fear of State and non-State players so rampant, even civil society had taken a backseat. Tehelka has retrieved a bit of our humanity’* *Lokendra Arambam,* historian and dramatist In the 30 years that the Act has been valid in Manipur, hundreds of young men and women have disappeared, been tortured, raped or killed. Despite dozens of human rights reports, no action was taken against the army. In 2004, the frustration pent up over decades spilled out like lava. A young woman, Manorama Devi, was dragged out of her house in the middle of the night by jawans of the Assam Rifles and led away. Her body was found the next day, brutalised, raped. A spontaneous rage ran through Manipur. Amidst protests across the state, a dozen elderly women stripped themselves stark naked and demonstrated in front of the Assam Rifles headquarters carrying searing placards: “Indian Army Rape Us.” Their extreme despair had a tiny impact: The Jeevan Reddy Committee was set up to review the Act. Its recommendations have still not been implemented, but in a minor victory, the Act and the army were removed from the city districts of Imphal. In the five years since, a new monster has been born on Manipur’s already ravaged landscape: the Manipur Police Commandos. With the army pulled back, the state and Central governments took a conscious decision to groom a wing of the state police to “stamp out” the insurgents. Unfortunately, that has bred a fear in the people as crippling as their fear of the UG. As the editor of*Ireipak,* Arun Irengbam, puts it, “The psychology of the AFSPA is like a contagious disease. The commandos move around with the same sense of impunity the army used to.” He is right. The official mindscape in Manipur is so militarised, it cannot think of approaching any problem except through violent suppression. As in every conflict zone, the arguments are complex. On the one hand are the excesses of the insurgents: the extortions, the murders, the intra-outfit killings. As a top police officer puts it, “We can either let things drift, or we can decide to take action. The truth is, we are hitting back more in the last two years. Look at how the Punjab problem was sorted out. I accept our boys might go too far sometimes, but you have to understand their psychology too. They too can be shot at any time and they get jumpy. Our police stations are unviable. We have just 10-15 men, we need at least 58 per station. We need more men, we need more weapons.” IT IS DIFFICULT TO IMAGINE THE‘PSYCHOLOGY OF IMPUNITY’ THE ACT HAS BROUGHT TO MANIPUR But power is a heady pill and the atrocities of the army over 30 years have found a twin face in the commandos. The two years since the police decided to “hit back” coincide with a huge spurt in police atrocities. The brazen killing of Sanjit — in broad daylight, in a crowded market — is only a symptom. The list of similar (but unproven) illegal executions in just 2008 runs a mile long. Even if you suppose for a moment that they are all militants, as the police might claim, Johnson Elangbam of the Apunba Lup has a timely reminder. “If even Kasab can be put on trial for Mumbai 26/11, why don’t Manipuri boys deserve the same treatment under law?” This absence of law — the absence of sanity — has created a corrosive paranoia in Manipur. Drive into Imphal and you feel the fear everywhere. Jeep-loads of commandos drive around the city, heavily armed, shooting and bullying at will. According to activists, in 2005, Lokhon Singh, a commando, was shot by Vikas, a PLA cadre, who in turn was killed. During Singh’s funeral, the police stormed into Vikas’ house and arrested everyone in his family. Then they allegedly gang-raped his girlfriend, Naobi. When Naobi told the court, “They have taken whatever they could from my body,” an officer apparently threatened her in front of the magistrate. No action was taken. In another sign of this paranoid fear bred by the State, after TEHELKA’s story on Sanjit’s fake encounter, journalists and activists in Imphal tried hard to deter anyone from TEHELKA visiting Manipur. “We cannot assure your safety,” they said. “The commandos are looking everywhere for the photographer who gave you the pictures.” At the chief minister’s conference, local journalists who had helped us navigate the city asked us not to recognise them for fear of reprisal. Sometimes, distrust can be more damaging than empirical fear. *‘We can either let things drift, or we can decide to take action. The truth is, we are hitting back more in the last two years. That is how the Punjab problem was sorted’* *Senior police officer,* requesting anonymity Ved Marwah, former super cop and former governor of Manipur affirms, “No police in the country has a worse record than the Manipur police. There is an allegation that they shot one their own officers in a fake encounter. The force is completely divided along ethnic lines and functions like the armed militia of the ruling party. That place is like the Wild East.” There are immediate palpable reasons why the Manipur Police Commandos have suddenly morphed into a new dragon face of the State. There is, most of all, the psychology of impunity. But since the decision to use the police and army as a combined force to “stamp out” the insurgents, there has also been a sudden rapid expansion of the force. From a mere 300, the commando unit has shot up to a 1,000. Now, according to the police source, 1,600 new commandos have been sanctioned. But where are these high caliber men to come from? Local journalists and activists speak of a massive recruitment scam. To become a sub-inspector, you pay Rs 10-15 lakh with kickbacks running all the way to the top politicians. To become a commando, you pay Rs 5 lakh. To become a rifleman, you pay Rs 1-2 lakh. Sources within the force confirm all this to be true. Unfortunately, logic demands you earn back what you pay out and the number of extortion demands by the police has risen proportionately to the expansion of the force. Taking in former militants into the force, as well as giving gallantry awards to commandos who kill militants, have all contributed towards creating a force that is, at least partly, motivated by a combination of greed, testosterone, vendetta and unbridled power. “I admit 10-20 percent of our boys could be bad eggs,” says the police officer. “We have to fine-tune their behaviour and make them more humane. I also admit the AFSPA needs to be amended, particularly section 4 and 6 whose wording now allows the boys leeway to torture or kill under any circumstance. But, in general, the violence is unlikely to come down soon. We need at least two years to clean up all this. We have to finish what has been begun. And please don’t believe everything you read in the Manipur press. First find out which UG outfit it is a mouthpiece for.” TRUTH IS, indeed, a difficult thing to ascertain in Manipur. The state is like an illusory pool, you step into it, and you are lost. Militants and politicians are friends. Commandos and extortionists are collaborators. Friends are informers. Law enforcers are killers. Beneath the table, every hand is interlinked. TRUTH IS DIFFICULT TO ASCERTAIN IN MANIPUR. EVERY HAND IS INTERLINKED BENEATH In early 2008, the police carried out a surprise raid in Babupara – the elite colony where ministers and government officials live behind several layers of thickly grilled iron gates. According to a top police source, who asked not to be named, twelve KYKL insurgents were found in a Congress MLA’s house. According to the same source, UNLF cadres were also found in a MPP member’s house. Others will tell you that politicians themselves inform the UG about every new scheme that comes into the state – expecting tidy thank you notes in return for their courtesy. What makes things worse is that, as the police officer alleged, the media in Manipur is certainly part of the many mirages in the state. A complex matrix of allegiance and coercion governs them. On August 4, for instance, shockingly, *The Sangai Express*carried a glowing account of the KCP (MC), a proscribed militant outfit’s third anniversary. The next day, the paper carried an open threat from the outfit to Vodafone masquerading as a story. “Tabunga Meiti, secretary in-charge of the revolutionary government of the KCP,” the story went, “says that the bomb attack at the office of Vodafone was the first and last warning for not conceding to the request for some monetary contribution to the outfit… To run an important organisation like KCP which is fighting for the cause of a nation, money is required…” “The UG does try to use our papers as notice boards for their demand notes,” says Arun of *Ireipak* wryly. Issued a threat by the UG outfit a few years ago for not toeing their ultra-revivalist line, he went underground for six months, before he decided he’d rather die than live a life of a fugitive. But many others cave in. As Pradip Phanjaobam, editor, *Imphal Free Press,* says, “The government also tries to issue guidelines to us, but we argue with them. Most of our real self-censorship is out of fear of the UG.” Or out of allegiance. For as another editor admits candidly, “I do have great empathy for the UNLF.” *‘If even Kasab can be put on trial for Mumbai 26/11, why don’t Manipuri boys deserve the same treatment under law? Why should they be eliminated?’* *Johnson Elangbam,* rights activist SANJIT’S MOTHER, Inaotombi, sits stoically in white against a bamboo pole in Khurai. She refuses to conduct the *shraddha* ceremony for her son till a judicial enquiry is instated and the CM resigns. Inaotombi has borne more than a mother should. Her son joined the proscribed PLA when he was 13 though she pleaded with him not to. By the time he was 20, he had a chest injury and had come overground. Two years later, he was dead. She has three other sons and must now contain their fear and anger. When the neighbours start rattling a stone on a metal pole — a cops want to kill. What made a 13-yearold boy join the PLA? Neither AFSPA nor commandos can answer that question. The rift at the heart of Manipur is an internal one – between its various ethnic groups. Neither AFSPA nor commandos can heal that either. Equally then, the intellectuals of Manipur could draw some lessons of their own. How valid is the injured sense of alienation that has kept the insurgencies buoyant over 30 years? “Is there space for us in the Indian imagination?” own communities. It needs inclusive growth with inclusive governance.” More emotional sensitivity from the Centre might help, though. When the new Minister for the North-East, BK Handique was asked to comment on the crisis in Manipur, he said, “Law and order is not our concern.” It should be, though, because the militarisation has the Centre’s sanction and as Pradip says, “You lose a bit of yourself every time you put up a fight. And you lose more if nothing happens.” *WRITER’S EMAIL* shoma at tehelka.com -- Rajkamal Goswami PhD Student in Conservation Science Ashoka Trust for Research in Ecology and the Environment (ATREE) Royal Enclave, Sri Ramapura, Jakkur P.O. Bangalore 560 064 Karnataka, India. Phone: 080-23635555, extn: 145 Mobile: 09740362460 Fax: 91 80 2353 0070 Web: www.atree.org -- Rajkamal Goswami PhD Student in Conservation Science Ashoka Trust for Research in Ecology and the Environment (ATREE) Royal Enclave, Sri Ramapura, Jakkur P.O. Bangalore 560 064 Karnataka, India. Phone: 080-23635555, extn: 145 Mobile: 09740362460 Fax: 91 80 2353 0070 Web: www.atree.org From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 15:02:14 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:02:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A follow up...............silence won't count anymore! In-Reply-To: <9d0d777b0908100034g2b5ad1a1h51af4379ceb1d3e8@mail.gmail.com> References: <9d0d777b0908100033hdd61dbbo8dfaa544e56e51f4@mail.gmail.com> <9d0d777b0908100034g2b5ad1a1h51af4379ceb1d3e8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908100232n7dd896dch393a21e51fc9788c@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, extremely sad, but true state of affairs at Manipur, as governance has gone for a toss, the administration is in the hand of unlawful persons with and without uniforms, sad commentary of how bad governance or lack of it affects the "identity" of the citizen and how lack of concern of the central governance affects the state and federation of India.! Regards, Rajen. On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Rajkamal Goswami wrote: > *CURRENT AFFAIRS* *cover story* > > *Life In A Shadow Land* > > *As Manipur comes to a boil in the aftermath of a fake encounter, **SHOMA > CHAUDHURY** maps the fractured truths and complex wars raging in the state. > Photographs by **SHAILENDRA PANDEY* > > ON JULY 23, 2009, on an ordinary day in Imphal, six people were going about > their morning chores in a crowded market on BT Road. P Lukhoi Singh, a > rider > working with the Assam Rifles, had just delivered a packet to the SP (CID) > and had stopped to chat with a friend. Gimamgal, a peon, was cycling to > work. Ningthonjam Keshorani, mother of three, was selling fruit. W Gita > Rani > had just visited her doctor and was trying to catch an autorickshaw. Rabina > Devi, five months pregnant, was holding her 2-year-old son Russel’s hand > and > buying a banana before she met up with her husband, working at a mobile > shop. And 22-year-old Chongkham Sanjit, a former insurgent, was on his way > to buy medicine for a sick uncle in hospital. > [image: image]*Counter kills* Sanjit, killed in cold blood; Rabina Devi > lies > next to him, shot by accident > > *View slideshow< > http://www.tehelka.com/story_main42.asp?filename=Ne150809coverstory.asp#> > *** > > Suddenly, a young man ran from a police frisking. Shots rang out. Lukhoi > Singh heard a sound like “automatic firing” and tried to duck beneath his > motorbike but was badly hit. He saw two cops walking into the crowd, > firing. > He told them he was hurt but they did not stop. Gimamgal heard a burst of > sound and kept cycling. He didn’t realise he had been hit till he saw blood > pouring down his body. His left arm was shattered. N Keshorani heard the > gunfire and started to push her fruit cart away but buckled suddenly. She > had been shot in the calf. Gita Rani just heard a sound. She didn’t realise > she had been hit till she saw blood staining her chest. Rabina Devi just > dropped dead. A bullet went straight through her forehead and out of her > neck. Her little son saw his mother lying in a pool of blood and began to > scream. > > Sanjit was standing at a PCO when within minutes he was surrounded by > commandos. There were four civilians injured and one dead on the road: the > cops needed an alibi. On that busy road, in the middle of a crowded market, > in full view of Manipur’s citizens, Sanjit was dragged into a pharmacy next > door and shot point blank. His body was then dragged out by the commandos > and tossed into a truck along with Rabina Devi. > > All of this passed for a routine day in Manipur. The area was not cordoned > off, no forensics were called in. The State Assembly was in session when > the > incident happened. By late afternoon, Chief Minister Ibobi Singh had tabled > a statement saying Sanjit, a member of PLA, a proscribed militant outfit, > had shot five civilians while trying to escape a police frisking but > Manipur’s brave commandos had killed him in an encounter. A 9mm Mauser was > found on him. The CM also said there was no way to stem the menace of > insurgents except to “eliminate” them (a statement he later denied). The > Opposition swallowed the story without question. Everyone went back to > business. > > Manipur is a dark shadow land. Nothing there is what it seems. Fear and > fatigue have become its universal character traits. It is estimated that > about 300 people have been killed in 2009 alone between insurgents and > state > forces. But nobody dares to raise any questions. People suspect things, but > in the absence of proof, they look away. Each time someone dies, the > neighbourhood constitutes a Joint Action Committee (JAC). Token protests > are > made, sometimes followed by token compensations, and everyone tries to live > on. The same would have happened this time, except an anonymous > photographer > captured the damning extra-judicial killing of Sanjit on camera. Terrified > of publishing the pictures in local papers, the photographer contacted > TEHELKA. > > Our story – *Murder in Plain Sight *– published last week was like a > pressure cooker burst. As the story traveled, protests erupted across the > state. People everywhere poured into the streets, demanding a judicial > enquiry and the chief minister’s resignation. Young boys fought off > commandos with slingshots and marbles. Women stretched their *phaneks* > across > roads as deterrents (Manipuri men are traditionally forbidden to touch > women’s clothes drying on a clothesline) and openly courted arrested. As L > Gyaneshwari, a women protestor recovering in hospital, says, “TEHELKA > opened > the gates to the tears blocked within us. We have always known the truth > about these killings but we never had any evidence and had lost the > strength > to speak. Now, we’ve found courage again. If a vegetable vendor had not > grabbed Rabina Devi’s bag and kept it with her, the commandos would have > put > a 9mm in it and passed her off as a militant as well.” “TEHELKA has woken > up > Manipur,” says Arun Irengbam, editor of the news daily, *Ireipak.* The > sentiment runs strong. “We cannot thank TEHELKA enough for bringing the > truth to light,” says Dayanada Chingtham, co-ordinator of the Apunba Lup, > an > apex body of activist groups. “We wish you had done this story two years > earlier, our police have become too brazen,” says a man, working — > ironically — in the office of Joy Kumar, the DGP of Police and the man, in > a > sense, at the heart of the storm. > > True to script, as the valley erupted in unarmed protest, the State > responded with typical ham-handedness. Commandos were deployed everywhere > and protestors were beaten back with water cannons, tear gas and smoke > bombs. Curfew was imposed. In a telling detail, Rabina Devi’s grandmother, > MRK Rajesana, was among a group of elderly women marching towards the > Governor’s house when they were stopped by commandos. “Arrest us”, they > taunted. Instead, the cops began to hurl smoke bombs at them. Some of the > old women ran into a tiny chicken shop for shelter and pulled the shutter > down. A cop found a small chink in the shutter and threw three smoke bombs > in. “Die, you hags”, he shouted. Imagine the outrage of the grandmother: a > pregnant granddaughter shot dead, buying a banana, and now the oppressive > suffocations of a vengeful State. “Manipur’s women fought the British in > 1904 and 1939. We fought the Indian army in 2004 for Manorama Devi. It is > time for another *nupi lal* (women’s war). I am inviting our women to come > forward for another war,” says she. > > *‘The problem is as much with Delhi as with Imphal. The situation in > Manipur > can get much worse than Jammu and Kashmir but the Centre just does not want > to recognise it’* > > *Ved Marwah,* former governor of Manipur > > The central hospital in Manipur is full of such brewing stories. KH Lokhen > Singh, an autorickshaw driver, was walking down the road, not even part of > a > protest, when a passing commando hurled a smoke bomb at him. As the bomb > exploded, Lokhen’s face was scalded. He lies in a hospital room now, face > burnt, blinded. His tiny two-yearold daughter Sangeeta — a baby with an > angelic face — lies sleeping on the floor on a mat beside him. > > Finally, on August 5, 2009, a full week after the story first broke, Chief > Minister Ibobi Singh called a press conference, admitted he had been > misguided into making a false statement about the “unfortunate incident”, > and promised a judicial enquiry. Six commandos, including a sub-inspector, > were suspended. Though protests continued to rage across the state even > after his announcement, for the moment, the immediate crisis seems to have > been defused. > > THE FAKE encounter of July 23, however, tells a darker story about Manipur. > It lays bare the pent up triumvirate of emotions that have come to dominate > the psyche of people here: extreme fear, extreme distrust and extreme > fatigue. Speak to anyone in the state — the sweetshop owner at the airport, > the taxi driver, historians, housewives, journalists, activists, vendors, > doctors, mechanics — and despair curdles just beneath. Everybody has > stories > to tell. Stories of extortion. Kidnapping. Threats. Demand notes. > Corruption. And extra-judicial killing. > > Far away from the national gaze, in fact, this tiny emerald valley > surrounded by cloud-kissed emerald hills is on the verge of internal > collapse. Much of this contemporary mess has historical roots. Manipur has > never entirely been a willing participant of the Indian Union. Its dominant > community — the Meiteis — claim a proud and unbroken history that goes back > 2,000 years. In 1947, when the British left, the Manipur Kingdom > established > itself as a constitutional monarchy and held elections to its own > parliament. Two years later, in 1949, the Maharaja of Manipur agreed to (or > was forced to, claim the Meiteis) merge with India. First as an inferior > C-State, then in 1963 as an Union Territory, and finally in 1972 as a State > of India. > > *‘Guns will not stop the insurgency. Just stop the cycle of killing and > peace will come. We can earn money, we can manage our family, but “the Act” > is beyond bearing’* > > *L Mem Choubi,* Apunba Lup > > Almost immediately, in 1964, the first underground movement for > independence > was born as the United National Liberation Front (UNLF). Other insurgent > outfits with varying versions of nationalism followed in the 1970s: the > PLA, > the PREPAK, the KCP, the KYKL. > > But these were not all. Manipur is made up of a rainbow community. Fifty > seven percent of its people are the Vaishnavite Hindu Meiteis, who live > dominantly in the valley. In the surrounding hills live the Nagas, Kukis > and > Mizo- Chin tribes. The Nagas and Kukis, which themselves have sub-groups, > are mostly Christian. About seven percent of the state’s population is made > up of Muslims — Pangals — who also live in the valley in a district called > Thoubal. > > Historically, the Meiteis have always felt and behaved superior to the hill > tribes. Predictably then, each of these communities have sprouted their own > militant underground movements. The Naga movement, in fact, predates the > UNLF to the 1950s. To simplify a long and complex history, what all of this > essentially means is that over the years, this tiny valley with a > population > of no more than 25 lakh people has sprouted almost 40 insurgent groups. > Some > of them are fighting the Indian State; many of them are fighting each > other. > Equally, as Central funds for development have poured into the valley, but > failed to climb the hills, the fights have become less over identity and > more over money. With an eye on the pie, many of the big insurgent groups > have splintered into innumerable small factions. As every Manipuri citizen > will tell you with disgust: “Every sub-ethnic group in Manipur has its own > militia, and every militia has its own extortion industry.” > > The stories of extortion in Manipur are epic. All well-heeled citizens are > routinely sent “demand notes” in the form of threat calls, kidnappings, > grenades or Chinese bombs hurled into shops and homes, or outright > killings. > Apart from these individual payouts, every government contract or > development fund has a fixed scaffold of cuts that go to the underground – > or “UG” as they are collectively known. These fixed cuts have now peaked at > 38 percent of every project. In early 2009, Dr Kishan, a officer of the > Manipur Civil Service, was shot for resisting extortion demands from a > development fund. As historian and former Apunba Lup leader, Lokendra > Arambam — an eloquent and disillusioned elder — puts it mildly, “There has > been a qualitative degeneration of the militants.” Things are so bleak that > the outfits that restrict themselves to “institutional extortion” are now > seen as honourable or principled. > EVERY ETHNIC GROUP HAS ITS OWN MILITIA, EVERY MILITIA HAS ITS OWN EXTORTION > INDUSTRY > > The UG is everywhere in Manipur, permeating the skin of everyday life. Most > of them run parallel governments, complete with Finance-in-Charge, Auditor > General and Secretaries of military and cultural affairs. In several > heinous > incidents, as in the infamous Heirok village episode, the PREPAK group — > fanatic revivalists who want the Meiteis to go back to their pre-Hindu past > — walked into a village celebrating a pre-Diwali ceremony and shot a boy > and > girl in cold blood as a lesson for the village. > > But the trouble is, the UG is only one facet of the fear that stalks > Manipur. The more damning facet — because you are groomed to expect better > from it — is the State itself. > > LIKE CHAUVINISTIC nation States everywhere in the world, from the very > start, India has responded to the riddles of identity in the North-East > with > brute force rather than patient dialogue. In 1958, it responded to the Naga > movement with a draconian version of an old colonial law: The Armed Forces > Special Powers Act (AFSPA). This Act allows even junior officers of the > army > to arrest, torture or kill any citizen on mere suspicion, and to search and > destroy property without a warrant. It also stipulates that no army officer > or jawan can be punished without the sanction of the Central government. > > With every passing year, different districts of Manipur were brought under > this Act. By 1980, all of Manipur had begun to live under its shadow. It is > difficult to imagine the history of violence this Act has brought to > Manipur, and the “psychology of impunity” it has bred. Think of a conflict > zone — a place where death comes easy, where everyone is jumpy — and think > of young men enabled to do as they please, ungoverned by law, unmindful of > any punishment. > > *‘Our morality was so muddied and the fear of State and non-State players > so > rampant, even civil society had taken a backseat. Tehelka has retrieved a > bit of our humanity’* > > *Lokendra Arambam,* historian and dramatist > > In the 30 years that the Act has been valid in Manipur, hundreds of young > men and women have disappeared, been tortured, raped or killed. Despite > dozens of human rights reports, no action was taken against the army. In > 2004, the frustration pent up over decades spilled out like lava. A young > woman, Manorama Devi, was dragged out of her house in the middle of the > night by jawans of the Assam Rifles and led away. Her body was found the > next day, brutalised, raped. A spontaneous rage ran through Manipur. Amidst > protests across the state, a dozen elderly women stripped themselves stark > naked and demonstrated in front of the Assam Rifles headquarters carrying > searing placards: “Indian Army Rape Us.” > > Their extreme despair had a tiny impact: The Jeevan Reddy Committee was set > up to review the Act. Its recommendations have still not been implemented, > but in a minor victory, the Act and the army were removed from the city > districts of Imphal. > > In the five years since, a new monster has been born on Manipur’s already > ravaged landscape: the Manipur Police Commandos. With the army pulled back, > the state and Central governments took a conscious decision to groom a wing > of the state police to “stamp out” the insurgents. Unfortunately, that has > bred a fear in the people as crippling as their fear of the UG. As the > editor of*Ireipak,* Arun Irengbam, puts it, “The psychology of the AFSPA is > like a contagious disease. The commandos move around with the same sense of > impunity the army used to.” > > He is right. The official mindscape in Manipur is so militarised, it cannot > think of approaching any problem except through violent suppression. As in > every conflict zone, the arguments are complex. On the one hand are the > excesses of the insurgents: the extortions, the murders, the intra-outfit > killings. As a top police officer puts it, “We can either let things drift, > or we can decide to take action. The truth is, we are hitting back more in > the last two years. Look at how the Punjab problem was sorted out. I accept > our boys might go too far sometimes, but you have to understand their > psychology too. They too can be shot at any time and they get jumpy. Our > police stations are unviable. We have just 10-15 men, we need at least 58 > per station. We need more men, we need more weapons.” > IT IS DIFFICULT TO IMAGINE THE‘PSYCHOLOGY OF IMPUNITY’ THE ACT HAS BROUGHT > TO MANIPUR > > But power is a heady pill and the atrocities of the army over 30 years have > found a twin face in the commandos. The two years since the police decided > to “hit back” coincide with a huge spurt in police atrocities. The brazen > killing of Sanjit — in broad daylight, in a crowded market — is only a > symptom. The list of similar (but unproven) illegal executions in just 2008 > runs a mile long. Even if you suppose for a moment that they are all > militants, as the police might claim, Johnson Elangbam of the Apunba Lup > has > a timely reminder. “If even Kasab can be put on trial for Mumbai 26/11, why > don’t Manipuri boys deserve the same treatment under law?” > > This absence of law — the absence of sanity — has created a corrosive > paranoia in Manipur. Drive into Imphal and you feel the fear everywhere. > Jeep-loads of commandos drive around the city, heavily armed, shooting and > bullying at will. According to activists, in 2005, Lokhon Singh, a > commando, > was shot by Vikas, a PLA cadre, who in turn was killed. During Singh’s > funeral, the police stormed into Vikas’ house and arrested everyone in his > family. Then they allegedly gang-raped his girlfriend, Naobi. When Naobi > told the court, “They have taken whatever they could from my body,” an > officer apparently threatened her in front of the magistrate. No action was > taken. > > In another sign of this paranoid fear bred by the State, after TEHELKA’s > story on Sanjit’s fake encounter, journalists and activists in Imphal tried > hard to deter anyone from TEHELKA visiting Manipur. “We cannot assure your > safety,” they said. “The commandos are looking everywhere for the > photographer who gave you the pictures.” At the chief minister’s > conference, > local journalists who had helped us navigate the city asked us not to > recognise them for fear of reprisal. Sometimes, distrust can be more > damaging than empirical fear. > > *‘We can either let things drift, or we can decide to take action. The > truth > is, we are hitting back more in the last two years. That is how the Punjab > problem was sorted’* > > *Senior police officer,* requesting anonymity > > Ved Marwah, former super cop and former governor of Manipur affirms, “No > police in the country has a worse record than the Manipur police. There is > an allegation that they shot one their own officers in a fake encounter. > The > force is completely divided along ethnic lines and functions like the armed > militia of the ruling party. That place is like the Wild East.” > > There are immediate palpable reasons why the Manipur Police Commandos have > suddenly morphed into a new dragon face of the State. There is, most of > all, > the psychology of impunity. But since the decision to use the police and > army as a combined force to “stamp out” the insurgents, there has also been > a sudden rapid expansion of the force. From a mere 300, the commando unit > has shot up to a 1,000. Now, according to the police source, 1,600 new > commandos have been sanctioned. But where are these high caliber men to > come > from? > > Local journalists and activists speak of a massive recruitment scam. To > become a sub-inspector, you pay Rs 10-15 lakh with kickbacks running all > the > way to the top politicians. To become a commando, you pay Rs 5 lakh. To > become a rifleman, you pay Rs 1-2 lakh. Sources within the force confirm > all > this to be true. Unfortunately, logic demands you earn back what you pay > out > and the number of extortion demands by the police has risen proportionately > to the expansion of the force. Taking in former militants into the force, > as > well as giving gallantry awards to commandos who kill militants, have all > contributed towards creating a force that is, at least partly, motivated by > a combination of greed, testosterone, vendetta and unbridled power. > > “I admit 10-20 percent of our boys could be bad eggs,” says the police > officer. “We have to fine-tune their behaviour and make them more humane. I > also admit the AFSPA needs to be amended, particularly section 4 and 6 > whose > wording now allows the boys leeway to torture or kill under any > circumstance. But, in general, the violence is unlikely to come down soon. > We need at least two years to clean up all this. We have to finish what has > been begun. And please don’t believe everything you read in the Manipur > press. First find out which UG outfit it is a mouthpiece for.” > > TRUTH IS, indeed, a difficult thing to ascertain in Manipur. The state is > like an illusory pool, you step into it, and you are lost. Militants and > politicians are friends. Commandos and extortionists are collaborators. > Friends are informers. Law enforcers are killers. Beneath the table, every > hand is interlinked. > TRUTH IS DIFFICULT TO ASCERTAIN IN MANIPUR. EVERY HAND IS INTERLINKED > BENEATH > > In early 2008, the police carried out a surprise raid in Babupara – the > elite colony where ministers and government officials live behind several > layers of thickly grilled iron gates. According to a top police source, who > asked not to be named, twelve KYKL insurgents were found in a Congress > MLA’s > house. According to the same source, UNLF cadres were also found in a MPP > member’s house. Others will tell you that politicians themselves inform the > UG about every new scheme that comes into the state – expecting tidy thank > you notes in return for their courtesy. > > What makes things worse is that, as the police officer alleged, the media > in > Manipur is certainly part of the many mirages in the state. A complex > matrix > of allegiance and coercion governs them. On August 4, for instance, > shockingly, *The Sangai Express*carried a glowing account of the KCP (MC), > a > proscribed militant outfit’s third anniversary. The next day, the paper > carried an open threat from the outfit to Vodafone masquerading as a story. > “Tabunga Meiti, secretary in-charge of the revolutionary government of the > KCP,” the story went, “says that the bomb attack at the office of Vodafone > was the first and last warning for not conceding to the request for some > monetary contribution to the outfit… To run an important organisation like > KCP which is fighting for the cause of a nation, money is required…” > > “The UG does try to use our papers as notice boards for their demand > notes,” > says Arun of *Ireipak* wryly. Issued a threat by the UG outfit a few years > ago for not toeing their ultra-revivalist line, he went underground for six > months, before he decided he’d rather die than live a life of a fugitive. > But many others cave in. As Pradip Phanjaobam, editor, *Imphal Free > Press,* says, > “The government also tries to issue guidelines to us, but we argue with > them. Most of our real self-censorship is out of fear of the UG.” Or out of > allegiance. For as another editor admits candidly, “I do have great empathy > for the UNLF.” > > *‘If even Kasab can be put on trial for Mumbai 26/11, why don’t Manipuri > boys deserve the same treatment under law? Why should they be eliminated?’* > > *Johnson Elangbam,* rights activist > > SANJIT’S MOTHER, Inaotombi, sits stoically in white against a bamboo pole > in > Khurai. She refuses to conduct the *shraddha* ceremony for her son till a > judicial enquiry is instated and the CM resigns. Inaotombi has borne more > than a mother should. Her son joined the proscribed PLA when he was 13 > though she pleaded with him not to. By the time he was 20, he had a chest > injury and had come overground. Two years later, he was dead. She has three > other sons and must now contain their fear and anger. When the neighbours > start rattling a stone on a metal pole — a cops want to kill. What made a > 13-yearold boy join the PLA? Neither AFSPA nor commandos can answer that > question. The rift at the heart of Manipur is an internal one – between its > various ethnic groups. Neither AFSPA nor commandos can heal that either. > > Equally then, the intellectuals of Manipur could draw some lessons of their > own. How valid is the injured sense of alienation that has kept the > insurgencies buoyant over 30 years? “Is there space for us in the Indian > imagination?” own communities. It needs inclusive growth with inclusive > governance.” > > More emotional sensitivity from the Centre might help, though. When the new > Minister for the North-East, BK Handique was asked to comment on the crisis > in Manipur, he said, “Law and order is not our concern.” It should be, > though, because the militarisation has the Centre’s sanction and as Pradip > says, “You lose a bit of yourself every time you put up a fight. And you > lose more if nothing happens.” > > *WRITER’S EMAIL* > shoma at tehelka.com > > -- > Rajkamal Goswami > PhD Student in Conservation Science > Ashoka Trust for Research in Ecology and the Environment (ATREE) > Royal Enclave, Sri Ramapura, Jakkur P.O. > Bangalore 560 064 Karnataka, India. > Phone: 080-23635555, extn: 145 > Mobile: 09740362460 > Fax: 91 80 2353 0070 > > Web: www.atree.org > > > > -- > Rajkamal Goswami > PhD Student in Conservation Science > Ashoka Trust for Research in Ecology and the Environment (ATREE) > Royal Enclave, Sri Ramapura, Jakkur P.O. > Bangalore 560 064 Karnataka, India. > Phone: 080-23635555, extn: 145 > Mobile: 09740362460 > Fax: 91 80 2353 0070 > > Web: www.atree.org > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajen. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 10 15:03:16 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 02:33:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] on Delhi In-Reply-To: <600288.54733.qm@web94701.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <595273.62365.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Subhrodip   Your words "the hymen exists elsewhere".   Brilliant phrase. Have not seen it used. If it is your 'original' please patent it or ask for copyright. Since that might be difficult, at least an acknowledgement if someone else uses it.   Allow me a variation "the hymen exists everywhere"   Kshmendra   --- On Mon, 8/10/09, subhrodip sengupta wrote: From: subhrodip sengupta Subject: Re: [Reader-list] on Delhi To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 1:57 AM U know, I attended a seminaar by some reknowned Social Worker. Evry 3rd line was 'Aur Ma-beheno ke saath shosan hota hain!' (for present purposes,chicks not allowed!) Hilariously, most of the so called moms and sis left the discussion tired of the topic. True a hilarious note, but neither an insult, U know, I am poor and am sure the book'l take some time to reach the libraries, so hav no right to criticise; nor an inabbriated a/c of a frustrated denpo(A person who thinks knows too much). Somehow amongst all crimes, only rape seems to be highlighted. However, leaving the mentality of MAle-dominated lineARAGE, I'd argue that though these have diraect physical and hormonal damage, as far as mental trauma is concerned many crimes are as bad.  I argue the hymen exists elsewhere... There are many good things about feminism, but this I feel is a another form of reductionism.  Thankfully there exists something which still arouses the society.................... This was a hilarious start to some more grave issues, precisely 2 distinct one which I wish 2 take up, I ought have taken one of  them, concurrently 2 weeks ago, but precisely for long hours involved in editing, very conviniently shirked. First on Gurgaon: What I have learnt is in many pockets, Rickshaw pullers are called on their mobile phones,a truely novel thing........... My experiences are quite vivid with a similar, may be not in terms of investment and culture, but in pattern of development, Dwarka, on which I'll try to jointly elaborate on this issue, involving the 'biker Gang' as well(they include not only sikhs or even jaats but Biharis and UP'ites as ell) In every other convergence( classical ) model of 'development', we talk of convergence, adjustment of MPL/MPK( through various mechanisms, including learning in classical sense), a term which is dubious, for the latter is indeterminate,  promoted by free trade, What happens actually is quite different thing. Leaving out things like Wine, labour constitutes nearly 70% of a commodities cost. So, in development, in order to keep feed of properly skilled or highly skilled labour, at cheap rates, we need labour or mass labour to be cheaper....................... We can say thus two roads are created=== a high road, of people who can really afford the 22K+ flats in Gurgaon and the super-expensive sabzis et-al max cost extracted by the rentier clas and the Haftas, and outsiders, who have no stake in the place's culture. While Gurgaon even gets it's skilled feed from adjoining places like Dwarka, most of the workers in both places come from neighboiuring villages on Haryana which have their own culture, law and governance. The result is both the defenders and offenders come from the same place and culture, while the beneficiary or the woman on the street is left moire vulnerarable. However I'd reject all stories of reporting a crime which I fell are consoling stories, and attribute to the records of increasing crime a simple tendency Voyeurism, looking through Key-hole, diversed from immidiate society in immadiate conomic relations, a man does not 'belong to' his surroundings, nor a woman! A dead body was taken from a pool in Dwarka, A row of appartments lay opposite to the site. A amn robbed of his car and stabbed. There he lay, who knows alive and yet no body reported. MAy be of fear of getting picked up. But why, not even later? Another experience, quite distant explores deeper in. We have all seen stories of gals getting harrassed in hotels. Yet many of the good ones are strictly reluctant to keep a single woman sans indemnity from any influencial group. In villages they give shelter, in cities, devoid of clan and confidence, we turn essentially voyeuristic and sarcastic of everyone else, thus finding a friction of cultures here. In villages since a city dweller doesnt get mixed with them , except where he tries to snatch land from them, they are usually friendly............. Incity,a race is on A dal is on betting for union, Boldly, rules are broken, women insulted called randis, though I do not find any abuse in that except victinsising and mass humiliation, the conflict goes on. Here we are biharis, punjabis, tamils, marwaris, jainsetc, conflicting with each other out in the open. The friction of values much stronger. , , , ,  , , That is why women get little support and shelter here, because of dogmatism and narrow interest politics. Delhi is an elaboration, not an exception(Based on true experiences at a Kalibari at Safdarjung Enclave). Yup Gurgaon is gliterring coz it is newly planned, but we need expert health care etc there too! ________________________________ From: Naeem Mohaiemen To: sarai list Sent: Sunday, 9 August, 2009 8:49:31 PM Subject: [Reader-list] Sam Miller on Delhi "Twelve of India’s 54 billionaires live in the city, but the majority of its citizens are poor, powerless migrants from rural areas in India, Nepal and Bangladesh. It is one of the most unsafe cities in India for women, who are murdered, raped and harassed at home and in public more widely than anywhere else in the country, while the use of expensive ultrasound technology to enable the selective abortion some 24,000 female foetuses every year has resulted in a skewed sex ratio of 820 girls to every 1,000 boys." The National (UAE) In his new book, Sam Miller tackles Delhi’s disparities by walking through it, eschewing its new arterial roads and flyovers for back streets and slums. Siddhartha Deb considers the city he discovers. Delhi: Adventures in a Megacity Sam Miller Jonathan Cape Dh94 On October 31, 1984, the Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi was gunned down in her Delhi bungalow by two Sikh bodyguards. There was a bloody war going on between Sikh separatists and the Indian state, and the assassins were said to have been outraged by Gandhi’s decision to send soldiers into the Golden Temple, the holiest of Sikh shrines, to capture a separatist leader. After a brief period of calm, a process of savage retribution began in many parts of the country, directed at Sikhs who had nothing to do with the killing or the separatist movement. Delhi, despite being the most heavily policed city in the country, saw the worst of such violence. Leaders of the Congress party, then in power, led mobs through the alleyways of poor neighbourhoods like Trilokpuri, where they pillaged and murdered, often setting people on fire after dousing them with kerosene. By the time the army took control, nearly 3,000 people were dead. Twenty-five years later, none of the senior Congress functionaries who directed the mobs – and whose names are well known – have been punished. The killings of 1984 have instead become one more incident relegated to the past by an elite singularly obsessed with entering the future. As for Delhi, it has been busy transforming itself for the past decade, embracing the market economy of the West and furiously erecting shopping malls, five-star hotels and flyovers. The upper classes of Delhi talk about plans to remake it into a futuristic “world city” (a goal usually proclaimed by posters on the walls of public restrooms), and gesture with pride at the new train system whose steel-coloured cars can be seen racing across the skyline. But millennial Delhi remains an unequal, violent place. Twelve of India’s 54 billionaires live in the city, but the majority of its citizens are poor, powerless migrants from rural areas in India, Nepal and Bangladesh. It is one of the most unsafe cities in India for women, who are murdered, raped and harassed at home and in public more widely than anywhere else in the country, while the use of expensive ultrasound technology to enable the selective abortion some 24,000 female foetuses every year has resulted in a skewed sex ratio of 820 girls to every 1,000 boys. As for the new train system, it is an exception in a city where public transportation is erratic and unsafe and the roads are resolutely hostile to pedestrians. In every way, the high-rises and slums of Delhi are filled with so many stories of disparity that the city demands the kind of muckraking attention that Upton Sinclair, for instance, brought to a similarly corrupt Chicago a century ago. But even within India, there are few books on Delhi that compare to recent writing on Bombay, from Suketu Mehta’s nonfiction account, Maximum City, to Vikram Chandra’s thriller, Sacred Games. In spite of the city’s energetic publishing scene, its best writers, usually people who have migrated there from other parts of India, seem uncertain about how to engage their new home. This invisibility of Delhi, the way its most significant stories flare briefly into headlines before being rapidly extinguished, is something I think about every time I return there. So when I started reading Sam Miller’s Delhi: Adventures in a Megacity in a local bookstore, I was intrigued to find that he had tackled Delhi’s disparities head on by walking through it. Miller, a BBC journalist who has lived in the city for seven years, writes: “If you don’t walk in Delhi, large parts of the city will be invisible to you. Its slums are mainly situated away from the main roads, hidden from the upmarket residential areas.” He knows his project is dangerous – pavements and pedestrian crossings are rare, and speeding vehicles are known to run people over – but he thinks the effort worthwhile, not only for the narrative frisson it yields, but also because it increases the possibility of sudden, serendipitous encounters, especially with the hidden poor. A writer walking through the madness of Delhi needs a method, not least because the route one chooses determines the story. Miller is aware of his literary precedents: Baudelaire, whose flâneur strolled the boulevards of 19th-century Paris at night, thereby encountering pimps, prostitutes and police agents; WG Sebald, whose walks along the Norfolk coast of England in The Rings of Saturn offered a slow, melancholic consideration of the once-frenetic energy of the mansions and hotels of the region, now fallen into ruin; and Ian Sinclair, whose “psychogeographical” approach of walking along a route suggested by an arbitrary letter drawn on a London map helped create a portrait of a city unknown to tourists or gentrifiers. After reading about the concentric circles used to build Muslim cities in India, Miller chooses a spiralling circuit for himself. It was an astute decision, ensuring not only that he would cross tightly segregated demographic zones, but also that he would follow the circular layout of the old Connaught Circle and the two Ring Roads, once central to the city’s layout, but now obscured by the hauteur of straight arterial roads and looping overpasses. Miller starts his tour in the concentric circles of the British-built area of Connaught Place, then takes in the chowks of the Mughal city to the north known as Old Delhi, and wanders past the five-star hotels and high-walled bungalows of Luyten’s Delhi, a neighbourhood of politicians, bureaucrats and industrialists. As his spiral widens, he also navigates the affluent neighbourhoods of the south, the arriviste settlements of the west, and, just across the toxic strip of water that was once the Yamuna rivers, the middle-class clusters of the east. It is telling that he finds no fixed address, no set neighbourhood, for the poor. Instead, he encounters them in the interstices of the metropolis, sleeping on the streets and under flyovers, in blue plastic tents next to construction sites, or in slums that can be cleared away at a moment’s notice. Walking along the banks of the Yamuna, Miller sees on its east side the Akshardham temple complex, a sprawling monument of Hindu kitsch approved by the courts despite concerns that it would impede the river’s flow of water. Almost directly across from it, he finds a police barracks on the site of what was, until recently, Delhi’s largest slum, housing some 300,000 people. Such scenes are depicted with empathy by Miller, who uses the privileged eccentricity of his whiteness to engage in conversations that reveal much about lives usually relegated to the margins of the city’s consciousness. He meets butchers who interrupt their slaughter of buffaloes to threaten him with knives but who shake his hand before he leaves; a young woman who, slightly sick from the smell of industrial glue, offers the author a soda before returning to her job demonstrating a 10-foot long printer; and a man on a bicycle who uses a speaker magnet to collect traces of iron from vehicle emissions that he plans to sell for 30 cents a kilo. Miller’s prose has none of the baroque texture to be found in Baudelaire, Sebald and Sinclair, but he blends anecdotes and details well. His decision to emulate Sebald in placing small black-and-white photographs within the text is particularly successful, lending the book a kaleidoscopic feel that captures something of the ad hoc nature of the city. In a chapter on Old Delhi, we see a grainy picture of a suspected heroin dealer being beaten by two policemen against a dystopian-seeming backdrop of a crumbling mansion, a dead tree, piles of trash, and an audience of ragged children: “The violent policeman slapped him across the face. He recoiled in slow motion, his shoulder hunching up as if waiting for the next blow. Instead, the policemen began emptying his pockets. A piece of string, some tinfoil, some matches, a few coins, and what looked like a tightly folded empty crisp packet, secured with a rubber band. ‘Evidence,’ said the violent policeman, speaking a word of English for the first time, as he placed the little package in his pocket without opening it. And then his second world of English, just a little threateningly, a word of closure and command: ‘Goodbye,’ he said and waved me away.” There are many similar passages in the recent fiction anthology Delhi Noir, whose 14 contributors use noir conventions to offer scathing indictments of the brutality of the city’s police, the vulgarity of its upper classes, and the desperation of the poor (the first story, by Omair Ahmad, even reconstructs one of the killings of 1984). Unfortunately, the stories rarely achieve the intensity on display in Miller’s book. Often, their accounts of corrupt policeman and resentful servants merely expand on headlines without offering a fresh perspective or allowing for full immersion into the lives or city being depicted. Those that succeed – Siddharth Chowdhury’s Hostel, Hartosh Singh Bal’s Just Another Death, and the Hindi writer Uday Prakash’s The Walls of Delhi – do so because they are alert not just to the horrible things that happen in Delhi, but also to how it feels to observe and write about them. In Bal’s story, for instance, the idealistic narrator, an ambitous journalist who has investigated a random, insignificant killing ends his account abruptly, on a cynical note that captures the numbing effect of the city by borrowing the hard-boiled tone of the noir detective who, ultimately, cannot make a difference: “What Mohanty had just told me didn’t make the case any simpler – either the police or the councillor and his men were capable of such brutality. But at that moment, the facts didn’t matter. No one in this city gave a damn, and having made it so far, I was just beginning to realise neither did I.” Miller, too, has to come to some form of reckoning. At the end of his walk, he finds himself in the suburb of Gurgaon, surrounded by shopping malls and condominiums whose names (“Malibu Towne,” “Belvedere Park,” “Maple Heights”) have been copied from suburban America. Just a few pages earlier, he had visited similar housing developments expanding through fields of mustard, with former farmers doubtfully counting the cash they have made from selling their land, hoping their children will find service jobs in Gurgaon. Miller doesn’t like Gurgaon, but he repeats the conventional wisdom that “Gurgaon is probably the future, and Delhi, and other Indian cities, will become more and more like Gurgaon.” This is a false note in what is otherwise a remarkably perceptive book, for Gurgaon’s modernity is just as skin deep as Delhi’s, even if it has been laid on by more competent cosmetic surgeons. Its apartment blocks may be newer and cleaner, but they play out the same stories of disparity and its discontents. Gurgaon represents not a solution to the city’s problems, but an attempt to evade them in the manner characteristic of India’s elite in recent years. Such an evasion can work for only so long. There are already signs that the lopsided economic growth that made such subterfuge possible is beginning to give way to national slowdown. And in Delhi, one sees a return of the repressed. In April a Sikh journalist outraged at a government report absolving a Congress leader of responsibility in the killings of 1984 threw his shoe at the home minister. Meanwhile, there are biker gangs on the streets, carrying out petty muggings and the occasional murder. The perpetrators are thought to be the children of victims of the anti-Sikh riots of 1984, survivors who have decided that what prevails in Delhi is might, not justice. Siddhartha Deb is a fellow at Harvard University’s Radcliffe Institute, and he teaches creative writing at the New School. He is currently working on a nonfiction book about contemporary India. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>       See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 15:06:43 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:06:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Inedia launches 7 eyes in the sky....... In-Reply-To: <181932.52394.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> References: <181932.52394.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908100236x513b1ef4y919f3d6f76b6246a@mail.gmail.com> Dear Subhro, DRDO has done some "research" but nothing of worth boasting about, mostly copied from other nations, labelled as "our own" and worst of the examples to mention are - the battle tank Arjun in "research for well over two decades, Light combat aircraft, or LCA, with Kaveri engine in GTRE for well over 17 years...........Multi crores have gone down the drain. Regards, Rajen. On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 9:42 AM, subhrodip sengupta < sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in> wrote: > 7 satelites shall 'boost' India's defence.... the authorities claim, & > conforming media flaunts. This project has been on, for quite a while say > more than 5 years of introducting low Hemispherial many satellites instead > of one heavy sattelite, people from DRDO and IIT's have been improving the > software potentials of image analysis, yet this news tells me some more > expenditure is made on improving resolution, bulky expenses, if we talk of > Space & Aviation Research......... One thing I can not understand why does > not India's Defence suit her peculiarity, strengths and weaknesses. Do we > think that US is a highly safe place and achieved Gold Standards in NAtional > security? That apart, when we have millions to feed, medicate and > educate, innovating ways and means for defence expenses, and defence > companies giving huge ads is all a wastage, seems there is more to this > logic than true concerns as usual...... > > > See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out > Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 15:21:40 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:21:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7271ec560908100251m61055704t1d54be26379d0bd8@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, look, who posts if the rule of laws are applied fair and square.............as regards, the brave officer who sacrificed his life, many should know that he was a puppet of maratta strongman, specially brought to SIT to create the myth of "hindu" terrorism, divide the votebanks of "hindu maratta parties, now broken with family fued, and he was fed up with political inteference, wanted to resign and go back to Delhi where he had more responsible job of the nation. In democratic nation, if the archives are not de-classified from time to time, all the gossip with spiced up versions will be handy, to create hate and terror in the minds of citizens, Theesta and her tribe will have more communal NGOs to live. Regards, Rajen. On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 8:10 AM, Javed wrote: > Crime and No Punishment > Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite > > Ram Puniyani > > Eleven suspects of Malegaon blast, September 9, 2008, got a breather > (August 01, 2009) when the special court dropped the charges under > MCCOA against 11 suspects of the crime. Prosecution failed to show > that all accused were member of a single organized crime syndicate. > This MCOCA act also requires that there should be two previous charge > sheets against one of them. Since the case prepared by police could > not prove these the charges have been dropped. The ATS and Maharashtra > Chief Minister have stated that they will ensure that they will go to > the higher courts, against the order of this court decision. In past > Congress has not undertaken any serious efforts to punish the guilty, > so this statement of the authorities has to be taken with a pinch of > salt. > > MCCOA apart, the overall scenario and line of investigation followed > by police has left lot of ground uncovered which can come handy for > the culprits getting away lightly if the police does not do its home > work well. There may also be deeper political dimensions to the issue > as well. The first point which struck the observers so far was that > for a long time police line of investigation in the blast cases was > based on the premise that some Muslim group is involved in the crime. > This created two problems. One was that the innocents kept getting > arrested and tortured and second that the real culprits could hide > under the cover provided by the popular perception about terrorism. > The vicious cycle was broken by Hemant Karakre with the impeccable > evidence in the form of the Motor cycle of Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur > from the crowded lane of Malegaon. Her link led to several people and > many organizations. The people involved were Swami Dayanand Pandey, Lt > Col Prasad Shrikant Puroit, Ajay Rahirar, retired Major Ramesh > Upadhayay, Rakesh Dhavade and many others. The connections with > Abhinva Bharat, Hindu Jagran Samiti, Army units, Bhonsala Military > School (Nagpur and Nashik), Akanksha Resort Sinhgad all emerged and > the picture of a broad conspiracy became clear. > > The investigating officer, Hemant Karkare, about whose death in 26/11 > terror attack, Antulay raised certain questions, faced immense > pressure due to criticism from Hindu right wingers, Thackeray’s paper > Saamana went on to say that they spit on the face of such a > anti-national person like Karkare, and some others also called him as > Deshdrohi. One does not know what direct/indirect impact all this had > on the future drafting of the charge sheet. Human Rights activist > Teesta Setalvad in her articles in Communalism Combat Feb 2009 raised > several questions about the charge sheet, which remain unanswered. > > One recalls that the Nanded blast (April 2006) case investigation > itself was very much muted and it was only the pressure of campaign > form Rights activists that the investigation was pursued. Rakesh > Dhawade, one of the accused in the Malegaon charge sheet had confessed > to his involvement in the training of few youth, for the preparation > and detonation of bombs. The training was done near the Sinhgad Fort, > Pune, in July-August 2003. Despite this he was allowed to be > discharged from the Purbea masjid blast case on July 27, 2009! ATS > says it was because the local police did not file a strong enough > charge sheet! One does not know whether it is a lack of coordination > or there is something deeper to this? > > It is beyond one’s comprehension as to why section 125, waging war > against the Indian Nation, has not been applied to these accused. In > this case the involvement of the serving military officers and the > retired ones has not been probed. It has ramifications far deeper then > can be seen from the surface. These military officers had the > background of Bhonsla Military School, which is practically controlled > by RSS. The RSS has its wing for retired military personnel and has a > lot of emphasis on cultivating connections with men in uniform. The > theft of 60 Kilograms of RDX by Purohit is a pointer of what the > serving and military officers can do once they are ideologically > indoctrinated by the notions other than that of secular democratic > India. Purohit in his narco analysis on 9th November 2008 had revealed > about his role in Samjhauta Express blast and a possible role Mecca > Masjid blast. > > There are multiple aspects of the case involved. One does not support > MCCOA at all, it is not only arbitrary and draconian; it also is a > refuge for police not to undertake the trouble for deeper > investigation and doing its home work properly. Even if one does not > trust the narco analysis, there are enough other evidences to link up > all these accused indoctrinated by RSS ideology. The point is why so > many links which are there for all to see are not followed? Why resort > to the short cut of MCOCA, or Narco analysis. > > The core point is the biases of the state apparatus, political, > bureaucratic and that of police in particular which has resulted in > evolution of two sets of justice delivery systems. One is for the > affluent and privileged that can get away with whatever they want and > the second is for the weaker sections, including minorities. Here > right from the police investigation to the charge sheeting, the > political influence and biases which influence the process of justice > delivery (or the lack of it) and the final verdict all are having a > tinge of bias. > > The political polices do determine the whole process. It is such > outcomes which make a section of population feel that they are used > merely as vote banks and when the time of justice comes they are not > considered at all. If the culprits of Malegaon are treated with kid > gloves under the theory that violence from Hindu fold is retaliatory > that will be the travesty of justice of the worst order. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajen. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 15:30:02 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:30:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Inedia launches 7 eyes in the sky....... In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908100236x513b1ef4y919f3d6f76b6246a@mail.gmail.com> References: <181932.52394.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <7271ec560908100236x513b1ef4y919f3d6f76b6246a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Rajen Thanks for posting this. The DRDO is one of the most useless organizations in my view, and therefore it really needs to be kicked off. Infact, the very idea of military use in today's world seems to be a farce, whether it be the use of militancy or terrorism as a state agenda or even the defence sector. Ideally, all nations should simply disband their army, navy and air forces, and instead give some kind of voluntary army type training to all to inculcate a sense of discipline within people, which can help them in their lives later. This need not be to serve the nation, but should be used at times of calamity to save the people. Instead, I heard the Prime Minister say recently, that terrorism is being tackled by increasing allocations for defence budget, as if the DRDO missiles are going to prevent terror attacks from taking place. Regards Rakesh From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Mon Aug 10 15:28:20 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:58:20 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on In-Reply-To: <65454551ED4A4F69BDD2350D81A1382B@tara> References: <13D1486371794E08BAD8CE2CAF7A7744@tara> <65454551ED4A4F69BDD2350D81A1382B@tara> Message-ID: Dear Taraprakash, My apologies, if you are hurt, even if inadvertently. It was only intended to draw attention to the typical mindset that stubbornly refuses to see pan Islamism as a motivating force behind the Kashmiri separatism as well as acknowledge continued attempts by others who have their own strategic interest in the region, to encourage fissiparous tendencies in Kashmir (...the ‘propaganda’ paper in question being one such case….). I take inspiration from the sheer courage of the differently abled in their endeavour to face the challenges of life. I am with you in your struggle for equality & fear treatment .In fact I very keenly follow the efforts of Mr.Abidi & other activists in this regard. Warm regards Lalit Ambardar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: taraprakash at gmail.com To: lalitambardar at hotmail.com; justjunaid at gmail.com; 425063.70526.qm at web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com; reader-list at sarai.net Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 23:37:18 -0400 Dear LA and all. Being blind myself, the derogatory, insensitive and offensive use of the word "blind" is the main issue for me. It may be a digression from discussion on Shapiro's article, but for those like me who are fighting to get equality and fair treatment for the differently abled, this is the main point. Let us try to recognize that what is margin for us may be the center for others. Let me again urge you not to equate "blind" with stupid and ignorant person. Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: Lalit Ambardar To: taraprakash at gmail.com ; justjunaid at gmail.com ; 425063.70526.qm at web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com ; reader-list at sarai.net Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 6:23 AM Subject: RE: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on No. The ‘word’ was very clearly meant to describe those who are very much ‘sighted’ but are undiscerning & undiscriminating & because of their 'blind faith' see any objectivity in that ‘propaganda’ paper. And let us not digress,please. Regards all LA------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: taraprakash at gmail.com > To: lalitambardar at hotmail.com; justjunaid at gmail.com; 425063.70526.qm at web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com; reader-list at sarai.net > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:13:07 -0400 > > Dear all and dear LA. > > The blind, just as the sighted throughout the world, will have different > opinions about this article. Some blind readers will find it biased, others > may find it objective. Whatever you wanted to state, please do not equate > blindness with foolishness. Let us not use the term "blind" in any > derogatory sense. The word means only one thing, a creature that does not > have eye-sight. > > Thanks > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lalit Ambardar" > To: ; <425063.70526.qm at web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com>; > > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 10:10 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on > > > > > > > > > > > > One must be blind to > > miss the glaring bias in this what could best be described as propaganda > > material > > (if this was an essay, then Goebbels deserved a ‘Noble’ for literature) . > > > > > > > > Regards all > > > > LA > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 21:38:12 +0530 > >> From: justjunaid at gmail.com > >> To: 425063.70526.qm at web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com; reader-list at sarai.net > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on > >> > >> Hi Kshmendra, > >> > >> You have described Prof. Shapiro's essay as "replete with prejudice, > >> bias, > >> ill-concieved presumptions and mis-constructed deductions". Could you > >> actually elaborate and give reasons for your characterization of the > >> essay. > >> > >> Junaid > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > News, sports, entertainment and fine living…learn the ropes on MSN India > > http://in.msn.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > Are you an untamed, bizarre or daring explorer? Find out now! Drag n’ drop _________________________________________________________________ Sports, news, fashion and entertainment. Pick it all up in a package called MSN India http://in.msn.com From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 15:40:08 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:40:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Inedia launches 7 eyes in the sky....... In-Reply-To: References: <181932.52394.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <7271ec560908100236x513b1ef4y919f3d6f76b6246a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908100310i6badb84do712105e05c420585@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh, DRDO missiles.......... they are all duds, they test the imported ones, give the localised names, the missile projects and research is all hogwash, but moot point is all those working ( I mean signing attendence register) are mostly progenies from favoured class of political leaders, babus and their hangers on., what shall the nation do with their life depending on the freebie salary given to them.......? Regards, Rajen. On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Rajen > > Thanks for posting this. The DRDO is one of the most useless organizations > in my view, and therefore it really needs to be kicked off. Infact, the very > idea of military use in today's world seems to be a farce, whether it be the > use of militancy or terrorism as a state agenda or even the defence sector. > Ideally, all nations should simply disband their army, navy and air forces, > and instead give some kind of voluntary army type training to all to > inculcate a sense of discipline within people, which can help them in their > lives later. This need not be to serve the nation, but should be used at > times of calamity to save the people. > > Instead, I heard the Prime Minister say recently, that terrorism is being > tackled by increasing allocations for defence budget, as if the DRDO > missiles are going to prevent terror attacks from taking place. > > Regards > > Rakesh > -- Rajen. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 15:41:05 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:41:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908100251m61055704t1d54be26379d0bd8@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560908100251m61055704t1d54be26379d0bd8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Rajen jee While it certainly is a questionable practice not to declassify the documents of intelligence of about more than 30 years ago, you seem to make a complete mockery of the investigations in the Malegaon case, as if Hindus can not be party to any terror blasts within the country, more so those who believe in the 'Hindutva' ideology. This is a wrong value-based position and I strongly disagree with it. One must not forget that the Sangh Parivar is such is based on the ideological position of disregarding the rights of the minorities to a life of dignity, and this is certainly a shame when compared with the ideals on which the Indian Constitution was and is still based. (Unless of course you believe that the Constitution itself is a shame to begin with). Any matter must be thoroughly investigated and only after proper investigations should we derive conclusions from it. Whether it be Malegaon or Mumbai blasts, this should be the way to go. Also, if matters relating to the case are present in the public domain, they should be presented to the public from the point of view of both sides (the accuser and the accused). And specifically, if people have doubts regarding the direction or certain matters within the case, these can and should be raised in the media and elsewhere for public discussion. The shameful part is that in India, when someone is claimed to be a terrorist, he/she is taken to be one irrespective of whether the final investigations indeed state the same or not. The basic notion of 'innocent until proven guilty' is reversed to be stated as 'guilty even if termed innocent by courts' in such cases. Whether it be Geelani or Sadhvi Pragya Thakur, that has happened. I have not seen the concerned articles as mentioned by Mr. Puniyani, but I believe that unless one has evidence to prove the judgement as wrong, or valid questions regarding the basis on which the judgement was made, one should not make atrocious allegations of this kind. Therefore, on the same grounds as I feel that Puniyani jee's side may be wrong, I equally feel that your side can also be wrong. Regards Rakesh From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 15:59:18 2009 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 06:29:18 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] Patriotism and Pavillion References: Message-ID: <5572AB7E-D561-428D-9076-8FFCBF66E176@gmail.com> > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/4872381.cms From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 16:01:49 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:01:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908100251m61055704t1d54be26379d0bd8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908100331n1c28c00ehd849fbf88e866741@mail.gmail.com> Rakesh jee, you have your intellect to analyse and judge, you are free citizen of India, but your sweeping judgement of RSS is absolutely wrong, and you are entitled to your views, but alteast have the patience to see the working of RSS before you start quoting from the articles of regular baiters like Ashish Nandy and the tribe of pseudo -seculars, let me re-assert, RSS does not hate muslims or christians, RSS men and women are volantary men and women who work for the nation , that too with the hope that the wall in the partition of 1947 will be brought down, all live with harmony and peace irrespective of their faith, no faith followers dominating the "majority" or "minority" on the basis of faith, converting from faiths to garner votes with vote banks. Muslims demanded partition and got it, but worked and struggled with all against slavery and the British rule, but the land mass was not loot after robbery to be distributed after freedom. Only 23 percent went to the partitioned land, rest assured the leaders and the nation that they will be living harmoniously with their hindu brothers, but we have seen the deviant in them, and the silent majority of muslims tolerating such deviants with NGOs. As to the deviants of the lot, they are emboldened by the fact that they though, in very small quantum, numerically, have supporters in so called pseudo seculars who have love of freedom to fight for any faith as legal., but not hindu, because then it is communal, not secular.! Regards, Rajen. On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Rajen jee > > While it certainly is a questionable practice not to declassify the > documents of intelligence of about more than 30 years ago, you seem to make > a complete mockery of the investigations in the Malegaon case, as if Hindus > can not be party to any terror blasts within the country, more so those who > believe in the 'Hindutva' ideology. > > This is a wrong value-based position and I strongly disagree with it. One > must not forget that the Sangh Parivar is such is based on the ideological > position of disregarding the rights of the minorities to a life of dignity, > and this is certainly a shame when compared with the ideals on which the > Indian Constitution was and is still based. (Unless of course you believe > that the Constitution itself is a shame to begin with). > > Any matter must be thoroughly investigated and only after proper > investigations should we derive conclusions from it. Whether it be Malegaon > or Mumbai blasts, this should be the way to go. Also, if matters relating to > the case are present in the public domain, they should be presented to the > public from the point of view of both sides (the accuser and the accused). > And specifically, if people have doubts regarding the direction or certain > matters within the case, these can and should be raised in the media and > elsewhere for public discussion. > > The shameful part is that in India, when someone is claimed to be a > terrorist, he/she is taken to be one irrespective of whether the final > investigations indeed state the same or not. The basic notion of 'innocent > until proven guilty' is reversed to be stated as 'guilty even if termed > innocent by courts' in such cases. Whether it be Geelani or Sadhvi Pragya > Thakur, that has happened. I have not seen the concerned articles as > mentioned by Mr. Puniyani, but I believe that unless one has evidence to > prove the judgement as wrong, or valid questions regarding the basis on > which the judgement was made, one should not make atrocious allegations of > this kind. > > Therefore, on the same grounds as I feel that Puniyani jee's side may be > wrong, I equally feel that your side can also be wrong. > > Regards > > Rakesh > > > > > -- Rajen. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 16:09:16 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:09:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Inedia launches 7 eyes in the sky....... In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908100310i6badb84do712105e05c420585@mail.gmail.com> References: <181932.52394.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <7271ec560908100236x513b1ef4y919f3d6f76b6246a@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908100310i6badb84do712105e05c420585@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Rajen The question not only is of those working in the DRDO, which of course must be disbanded. But your argument is mainly concerned with the quality of staff which is working there. If say, instead of the so-called progenies and relatives of the politicians and powerful people working, we may have technically qualified and competent professionals for the same, you may agree to it. My stand is totally divergent from this. I accept that in today's times, unfortunately, defence is something each state has to build and look at. But one must remember the consequences of militarism as well. At a time when India wants to become a global superpower probably by the end of the century, thanks to the ideals set by the ex-President Mr. Kalam of making India a developed nation by 2020, defence lobbies would like to spend ample amount of resources on missile development and other programs to bring about outward projection of India as a strong state. I completely disagree with this projection because of the costs and benefits associated with it. The strengths of India as a state lie in it being a democratic, socialist and secular republic, as enshrined in the Constitution. Yes, our democracy doesn't function as a proper democracy should on the scale of 100, but we do have regular elections, we do have governments being voted out and changed without any violence accompanying it, and we do have reasonable amount of free and fair elections (not withstanding claims of unfairness in the elections to many constituencies in India, like the ones for the Home Minister and the Minister of Chemicals in the present govt.). We are a heterogeneous society with people of different ethnicities, different religions, different practices and customs (even within the same religion or region), different castes (and castes exist even Muslims or Christians, and so does caste discrimination), and many other differences in views and ideas. And yet we live together. Not for nothing should we be proud of that Indian Muslims have not gone on to join the global terror network of Al-Qaeda, though they may have been brain-washed to attack the state itself by targetting innocent citizens in the name of 'jihad'. (I say may because many of the cases are yet to be proven, and yet even accepting that claim for once, that percentage is very small compared to the total population of Muslims in India, which is the third largest in the world). And to some extent, the credit for the same should go to India being a democratic state (as opposed to Pakistan, where dictatorship combined with theocracy to produce organizations which are now a bane for the global society itself, such as Al-Qaeda, the Lashkar-e-Tayyeba and so on). Instead, some fools would like to believe that power lies in having more missiles and nuclear capabilities. I believe that not only do these hinder the freedom of other nations to spend on social programs (by forcing them in an arms race, somewhat unwillingly), but more-so, they also hinder one's own capability to spend on issues which require more resources. For example, India faces tremendous amounts of chronic starvation, deprivation in nutritional terms, poor literacy and education rates (including enrolment rates for secondary and college education as well), as well as problems on health and employment sector. What's more, in the case of Pakistan, and even China, these capabilities have not helped us to either attain peace or bully these nations into submission to achieve our goals. For example, in the case of Pakistan, once we performed the nuclear tests in 1998, Pakistan actually managed to prove its nuclear capabilities by performing the tests as a response. Before that, they didn't have any proof of the same, whereas we had already done so in 1974 to prove ourselves in that field. And as for China, the nation we were supposedly targetting through the blasts, it simply chided us by stating that nations should behave responsibly, and thereby got greater leverage. And most importantly, what nations like India forget is that China gets greater leverage at the international scene mainly because they are economically very sound and very important, which is not the case with India. Of course, why China has reached there has its valid reasons as well, but India must learn this important lesson and focus on some of these economic goals as well rather than making missiles as well (which North Korea does, and thereby gets only aid from US for its rulers. But North Korea is not democratic, otherwise such a govt would have been swept away in a wave against it in elections. ) Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 16:10:07 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:10:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908100331n1c28c00ehd849fbf88e866741@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560908100251m61055704t1d54be26379d0bd8@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908100331n1c28c00ehd849fbf88e866741@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Rajen What do you have to say about Golwalkar? I heard that RSS is unapologetic about his views, and they agree with him. Regards Rakesh From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 16:35:32 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:35:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Inedia launches 7 eyes in the sky....... In-Reply-To: References: <181932.52394.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <7271ec560908100236x513b1ef4y919f3d6f76b6246a@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908100310i6badb84do712105e05c420585@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908100405s60be93d4y5b3a8dd5d02f419f@mail.gmail.com> Rakesh jee, India is strong world power even now, but lack of vision with those leading India as a democratic nation, thriving on divide and rule, has made India's; claim as a strong nation weak one, as over billion consumers are the backbone of whitening creams, to drink colas, to use beauty enhancing solutions which are promoted by hidden persuasion of advertisements,even a toothpaste is from MNC, not Indian Enterprise, each and every enterprise has got sold in the hands like the Parle soft-drinks and our leaders do not mind the most polluting MNCs in partnership with MNCs harming the economy and ecology of the nation. And please do not ask me proof again, because come out of your arm chair and laptop, take a walk around in your own area of stay, see the truth. Regards, Rajen. On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Rajen > > The question not only is of those working in the DRDO, which of course must > be disbanded. But your argument is mainly concerned with the quality of > staff which is working there. If say, instead of the so-called progenies and > relatives of the politicians and powerful people working, we may have > technically qualified and competent professionals for the same, you may > agree to it. > > My stand is totally divergent from this. I accept that in today's times, > unfortunately, defence is something each state has to build and look at. But > one must remember the consequences of militarism as well. At a time when > India wants to become a global superpower probably by the end of the > century, thanks to the ideals set by the ex-President Mr. Kalam of making > India a developed nation by 2020, defence lobbies would like to spend ample > amount of resources on missile development and other programs to bring about > outward projection of India as a strong state. > > I completely disagree with this projection because of the costs and > benefits associated with it. The strengths of India as a state lie in it > being a democratic, socialist and secular republic, as enshrined in the > Constitution. Yes, our democracy doesn't function as a proper democracy > should on the scale of 100, but we do have regular elections, we do have > governments being voted out and changed without any violence accompanying > it, and we do have reasonable amount of free and fair elections (not > withstanding claims of unfairness in the elections to many constituencies in > India, like the ones for the Home Minister and the Minister of Chemicals in > the present govt.). We are a heterogeneous society with people of different > ethnicities, different religions, different practices and customs (even > within the same religion or region), different castes (and castes exist even > Muslims or Christians, and so does caste discrimination), and many other > differences in views and ideas. And yet we live together. > > Not for nothing should we be proud of that Indian Muslims have not gone on > to join the global terror network of Al-Qaeda, though they may have been > brain-washed to attack the state itself by targetting innocent citizens in > the name of 'jihad'. (I say may because many of the cases are yet to be > proven, and yet even accepting that claim for once, that percentage is very > small compared to the total population of Muslims in India, which is the > third largest in the world). And to some extent, the credit for the same > should go to India being a democratic state (as opposed to Pakistan, where > dictatorship combined with theocracy to produce organizations which are now > a bane for the global society itself, such as Al-Qaeda, the > Lashkar-e-Tayyeba and so on). > > Instead, some fools would like to believe that power lies in having more > missiles and nuclear capabilities. I believe that not only do these hinder > the freedom of other nations to spend on social programs (by forcing them in > an arms race, somewhat unwillingly), but more-so, they also hinder one's own > capability to spend on issues which require more resources. For example, > India faces tremendous amounts of chronic starvation, deprivation in > nutritional terms, poor literacy and education rates (including enrolment > rates for secondary and college education as well), as well as problems on > health and employment sector. > > What's more, in the case of Pakistan, and even China, these capabilities > have not helped us to either attain peace or bully these nations into > submission to achieve our goals. For example, in the case of Pakistan, once > we performed the nuclear tests in 1998, Pakistan actually managed to prove > its nuclear capabilities by performing the tests as a response. Before that, > they didn't have any proof of the same, whereas we had already done so in > 1974 to prove ourselves in that field. > > And as for China, the nation we were supposedly targetting through the > blasts, it simply chided us by stating that nations should behave > responsibly, and thereby got greater leverage. And most importantly, what > nations like India forget is that China gets greater leverage at the > international scene mainly because they are economically very sound and very > important, which is not the case with India. Of course, why China has > reached there has its valid reasons as well, but India must learn this > important lesson and focus on some of these economic goals as well rather > than making missiles as well (which North Korea does, and thereby gets only > aid from US for its rulers. But North Korea is not democratic, otherwise > such a govt would have been swept away in a wave against it in elections. ) > > Regards > > Rakesh > -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 16:39:17 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:39:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908100251m61055704t1d54be26379d0bd8@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908100331n1c28c00ehd849fbf88e866741@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908100409w32dbd84by7a3f0b163bb426c5@mail.gmail.com> Rakesh jee, I do not go with hearsay, but live with today, not yesterday.Even Guruji if quoted out of contest like the many do for their celeb status, have truth as they percieve and see it, that is their freedom in speech and action.! Regards, Rajen. On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Rajen > > What do you have to say about Golwalkar? I heard that RSS is unapologetic > about his views, and they agree with him. > > Regards > > Rakesh > -- Rajen. From sammillerdelhi at hotmail.com Mon Aug 10 16:40:08 2009 From: sammillerdelhi at hotmail.com (sam miller) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:40:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sam Miller on Delhi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Naeem - thanks for posting this very positive and thoughtful review of my book, which I hadn't seen. I don't quite understand Siddhartha's final point about Gurgaon. Can anyone elucidate? Sam > Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 11:19:31 -0400 > From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com > To: reader-list at sarai.net > Subject: [Reader-list] Sam Miller on Delhi > > "Twelve of India’s 54 billionaires live in the city, but the majority > of its citizens are poor, powerless migrants from rural areas in > India, Nepal and Bangladesh. It is one of the most unsafe cities in > India for women, who are murdered, raped and harassed at home and in > public more widely than anywhere else in the country, while the use of > expensive ultrasound technology to enable the selective abortion some > 24,000 female foetuses every year has resulted in a skewed sex ratio > of 820 girls to every 1,000 boys." > > > The National (UAE) > In his new book, Sam Miller tackles Delhi’s disparities by walking > through it, eschewing its new arterial roads and flyovers for back > streets and slums. Siddhartha Deb considers the city he discovers. > > Delhi: Adventures in a Megacity > Sam Miller > Jonathan Cape > Dh94 > > On October 31, 1984, the Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi was > gunned down in her Delhi bungalow by two Sikh bodyguards. There was a > bloody war going on between Sikh separatists and the Indian state, and > the assassins were said to have been outraged by Gandhi’s decision to > send soldiers into the Golden Temple, the holiest of Sikh shrines, to > capture a separatist leader. After a brief period of calm, a process > of savage retribution began in many parts of the country, directed at > Sikhs who had nothing to do with the killing or the separatist > movement. Delhi, despite being the most heavily policed city in the > country, saw the worst of such violence. Leaders of the Congress > party, then in power, led mobs through the alleyways of poor > neighbourhoods like Trilokpuri, where they pillaged and murdered, > often setting people on fire after dousing them with kerosene. By the > time the army took control, nearly 3,000 people were dead. > > Twenty-five years later, none of the senior Congress functionaries who > directed the mobs – and whose names are well known – have been > punished. The killings of 1984 have instead become one more incident > relegated to the past by an elite singularly obsessed with entering > the future. As for Delhi, it has been busy transforming itself for the > past decade, embracing the market economy of the West and furiously > erecting shopping malls, five-star hotels and flyovers. The upper > classes of Delhi talk about plans to remake it into a futuristic > “world city” (a goal usually proclaimed by posters on the walls of > public restrooms), and gesture with pride at the new train system > whose steel-coloured cars can be seen racing across the skyline. > > But millennial Delhi remains an unequal, violent place. Twelve of > India’s 54 billionaires live in the city, but the majority of its > citizens are poor, powerless migrants from rural areas in India, Nepal > and Bangladesh. It is one of the most unsafe cities in India for > women, who are murdered, raped and harassed at home and in public more > widely than anywhere else in the country, while the use of expensive > ultrasound technology to enable the selective abortion some 24,000 > female foetuses every year has resulted in a skewed sex ratio of 820 > girls to every 1,000 boys. As for the new train system, it is an > exception in a city where public transportation is erratic and unsafe > and the roads are resolutely hostile to pedestrians. In every way, the > high-rises and slums of Delhi are filled with so many stories of > disparity that the city demands the kind of muckraking attention that > Upton Sinclair, for instance, brought to a similarly corrupt Chicago a > century ago. But even within India, there are few books on Delhi that > compare to recent writing on Bombay, from Suketu Mehta’s nonfiction > account, Maximum City, to Vikram Chandra’s thriller, Sacred Games. In > spite of the city’s energetic publishing scene, its best writers, > usually people who have migrated there from other parts of India, seem > uncertain about how to engage their new home. > > This invisibility of Delhi, the way its most significant stories flare > briefly into headlines before being rapidly extinguished, is something > I think about every time I return there. So when I started reading Sam > Miller’s Delhi: Adventures in a Megacity in a local bookstore, I was > intrigued to find that he had tackled Delhi’s disparities head on by > walking through it. Miller, a BBC journalist who has lived in the city > for seven years, writes: “If you don’t walk in Delhi, large parts of > the city will be invisible to you. Its slums are mainly situated away > from the main roads, hidden from the upmarket residential areas.” He > knows his project is dangerous – pavements and pedestrian crossings > are rare, and speeding vehicles are known to run people over – but he > thinks the effort worthwhile, not only for the narrative frisson it > yields, but also because it increases the possibility of sudden, > serendipitous encounters, especially with the hidden poor. > > A writer walking through the madness of Delhi needs a method, not > least because the route one chooses determines the story. Miller is > aware of his literary precedents: Baudelaire, whose flâneur strolled > the boulevards of 19th-century Paris at night, thereby encountering > pimps, prostitutes and police agents; WG Sebald, whose walks along the > Norfolk coast of England in The Rings of Saturn offered a slow, > melancholic consideration of the once-frenetic energy of the mansions > and hotels of the region, now fallen into ruin; and Ian Sinclair, > whose “psychogeographical” approach of walking along a route suggested > by an arbitrary letter drawn on a London map helped create a portrait > of a city unknown to tourists or gentrifiers. > > After reading about the concentric circles used to build Muslim cities > in India, Miller chooses a spiralling circuit for himself. It was an > astute decision, ensuring not only that he would cross tightly > segregated demographic zones, but also that he would follow the > circular layout of the old Connaught Circle and the two Ring Roads, > once central to the city’s layout, but now obscured by the hauteur of > straight arterial roads and looping overpasses. > > Miller starts his tour in the concentric circles of the British-built > area of Connaught Place, then takes in the chowks of the Mughal city > to the north known as Old Delhi, and wanders past the five-star hotels > and high-walled bungalows of Luyten’s Delhi, a neighbourhood of > politicians, bureaucrats and industrialists. As his spiral widens, he > also navigates the affluent neighbourhoods of the south, the arriviste > settlements of the west, and, just across the toxic strip of water > that was once the Yamuna rivers, the middle-class clusters of the > east. It is telling that he finds no fixed address, no set > neighbourhood, for the poor. Instead, he encounters them in the > interstices of the metropolis, sleeping on the streets and under > flyovers, in blue plastic tents next to construction sites, or in > slums that can be cleared away at a moment’s notice. Walking along the > banks of the Yamuna, Miller sees on its east side the Akshardham > temple complex, a sprawling monument of Hindu kitsch approved by the > courts despite concerns that it would impede the river’s flow of > water. Almost directly across from it, he finds a police barracks on > the site of what was, until recently, Delhi’s largest slum, housing > some 300,000 people. > > Such scenes are depicted with empathy by Miller, who uses the > privileged eccentricity of his whiteness to engage in conversations > that reveal much about lives usually relegated to the margins of the > city’s consciousness. He meets butchers who interrupt their slaughter > of buffaloes to threaten him with knives but who shake his hand before > he leaves; a young woman who, slightly sick from the smell of > industrial glue, offers the author a soda before returning to her job > demonstrating a 10-foot long printer; and a man on a bicycle who uses > a speaker magnet to collect traces of iron from vehicle emissions that > he plans to sell for 30 cents a kilo. Miller’s prose has none of the > baroque texture to be found in Baudelaire, Sebald and Sinclair, but he > blends anecdotes and details well. His decision to emulate Sebald in > placing small black-and-white photographs within the text is > particularly successful, lending the book a kaleidoscopic feel that > captures something of the ad hoc nature of the city. > > In a chapter on Old Delhi, we see a grainy picture of a suspected > heroin dealer being beaten by two policemen against a > dystopian-seeming backdrop of a crumbling mansion, a dead tree, piles > of trash, and an audience of ragged children: > > “The violent policeman slapped him across the face. He recoiled in > slow motion, his shoulder hunching up as if waiting for the next blow. > Instead, the policemen began emptying his pockets. A piece of string, > some tinfoil, some matches, a few coins, and what looked like a > tightly folded empty crisp packet, secured with a rubber band. > ‘Evidence,’ said the violent policeman, speaking a word of English for > the first time, as he placed the little package in his pocket without > opening it. And then his second world of English, just a little > threateningly, a word of closure and command: ‘Goodbye,’ he said and > waved me away.” > > There are many similar passages in the recent fiction anthology Delhi > Noir, whose 14 contributors use noir conventions to offer scathing > indictments of the brutality of the city’s police, the vulgarity of > its upper classes, and the desperation of the poor (the first story, > by Omair Ahmad, even reconstructs one of the killings of 1984). > Unfortunately, the stories rarely achieve the intensity on display in > Miller’s book. Often, their accounts of corrupt policeman and > resentful servants merely expand on headlines without offering a fresh > perspective or allowing for full immersion into the lives or city > being depicted. Those that succeed – Siddharth Chowdhury’s Hostel, > Hartosh Singh Bal’s Just Another Death, and the Hindi writer Uday > Prakash’s The Walls of Delhi – do so because they are alert not just > to the horrible things that happen in Delhi, but also to how it feels > to observe and write about them. In Bal’s story, for instance, the > idealistic narrator, an ambitous journalist who has investigated a > random, insignificant killing ends his account abruptly, on a cynical > note that captures the numbing effect of the city by borrowing the > hard-boiled tone of the noir detective who, ultimately, cannot make a > difference: > > “What Mohanty had just told me didn’t make the case any simpler – > either the police or the councillor and his men were capable of such > brutality. But at that moment, the facts didn’t matter. No one in this > city gave a damn, and having made it so far, I was just beginning to > realise neither did I.” > > Miller, too, has to come to some form of reckoning. At the end of his > walk, he finds himself in the suburb of Gurgaon, surrounded by > shopping malls and condominiums whose names (“Malibu Towne,” > “Belvedere Park,” “Maple Heights”) have been copied from suburban > America. Just a few pages earlier, he had visited similar housing > developments expanding through fields of mustard, with former farmers > doubtfully counting the cash they have made from selling their land, > hoping their children will find service jobs in Gurgaon. Miller > doesn’t like Gurgaon, but he repeats the conventional wisdom that > “Gurgaon is probably the future, and Delhi, and other Indian cities, > will become more and more like Gurgaon.” > > This is a false note in what is otherwise a remarkably perceptive > book, for Gurgaon’s modernity is just as skin deep as Delhi’s, even if > it has been laid on by more competent cosmetic surgeons. Its apartment > blocks may be newer and cleaner, but they play out the same stories of > disparity and its discontents. Gurgaon represents not a solution to > the city’s problems, but an attempt to evade them in the manner > characteristic of India’s elite in recent years. Such an evasion can > work for only so long. There are already signs that the lopsided > economic growth that made such subterfuge possible is beginning to > give way to national slowdown. And in Delhi, one sees a return of the > repressed. In April a Sikh journalist outraged at a government report > absolving a Congress leader of responsibility in the killings of 1984 > threw his shoe at the home minister. Meanwhile, there are biker gangs > on the streets, carrying out petty muggings and the occasional murder. > The perpetrators are thought to be the children of victims of the > anti-Sikh riots of 1984, survivors who have decided that what prevails > in Delhi is might, not justice. > > > Siddhartha Deb is a fellow at Harvard University’s Radcliffe > Institute, and he teaches creative writing at the New School. He is > currently working on a nonfiction book about contemporary India. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ News, sports, entertainment and fine living…learn the ropes on MSN India http://in.msn.com From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Aug 10 17:09:40 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:39:40 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?ID=92ing_the_masses_may_solve_Indi?= =?windows-1252?q?an_identity_crisis-190?= Message-ID: <65be9bf40908100439g2d5b8552v734aef10a4396f03@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, and ( Dear Nandan Nilekani ) The article below is a real smart one. Please notice the way in which spin is given to both NIC and Nandu. Reading so many of these so called -news- pieces on MNIC/UID, one now craves, for a proper -theory- on news media's notion of spin. Let me cite some wonderful examples- 1. "Every piece of life becomes easier," he said. "Just the simple act of saying I stand by who this person claims he is. Can you imagine the value of that?" The above statement was uttered by our good friend Nandan Nilekani !! So what is this statement supposed to mean anyways? No, I don't understand the meaning of -value- and -piece of life-, what does it mean? Also how many people will go for a notion that a national identity card will make discrepancies arising from a rigid caste system go away? Or for that matter had any one thought how much of a crucial role an identity document could play in perhaps re-enforcing caste system? Now, that everyone knows, who is who, then, why not practice exclusion systematically? 2. "It will take years and years and years," Nilekani said. "Even if it costs a bit of money, if a few hundred million poor people get better public services, it's worth its weight in gold." Ah!!! The Phoor!! Oh!! the Phoor!!! Aaahhh we want to do -something- for them Phoor!! Good, good!!! 4000 years it will take you Nandan Nilekani, to completely -identify- all Indians, going by the rate at which 12 lakh were rendered visible during the pilot project. If you are as honest as you claim to be then you must not indulge these sham exercises by merging and purging the data contained in LPG lists, PAN cards lists and so on, because these lists are infested with bogus and false entries. We all know this. Please take the responsibility of identifying Indians, all of 1.2 billion of us, seriously. Please identify us ONE BY ONE. If you have patience, diligence and guts then please go ahead and build a completely foolproof personal identification document base. We will be grateful to you. and then more Phoor!!! 3. "I need a card that will work all over India," said fisherman Shiv Kumar Chinna Coundar, 38. Every time he docks in a port in a different state, he has to get permission from the customs office. The more permissions required, the more "chai pani" -- literally, "tea water," a local term for bribes -- you have to pay, he and others say. If any one in their right frame of mind thinks that corruption will disappear from India once these Id cards will come into play must consult a psychiatrist immediately? There is no co-relationship between the two. The nature of corruption may change but corruption will remain. Please have a look below for more spin. Warm regards Taha http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/lifestyles/health_med_fit/article/I-INDI0720_20090806-183605/284436/ ID’ing the masses may solve Indian identity crisis ERIKA KINETZ THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Published: August 8, 2009 MUMBAI, India -- It's a problem of mind-boggling complexity: How do you identify 1.2 billion people without documents, who sometimes rely just on word of mouth to establish who they are? The man tasked with solving this problem is outsourcing guru Nandan Nilekani, who rose to prominence as a founder of Infosys Technologies Ltd., India's second-largest outsourcing firm. He began work last month as director of the Unique Identification Authority of India, an ambitious new government initiative that aims to assign unique, verifiable identification numbers to every single Indian. "It keeps me awake at night, thinking what the hell have I got into," said Nilekani, 54. Indians of means can flash passports, driver's licenses and credit cards to establish who they are. But the poor rely on a jumble of electricity bills, ration cards, voting cards, and letters from local officials -- none of which is foolproof. That has made it harder for them to get jobs, open bank accounts and establish property rights, stymieing their ability to participate in, and in turn fuel, India's growth. It also has increased the potential for graft in India's massive social subsidy programs. Nilekani has become an expert at expounding the revolutionary social potential of technology. "Identity has become a basis for exclusion," he said over coffee in Mumbai, shortly before he started his new job. "The poor have no access to identity. Therefore all the time they are running around re-establishing their identity." His best-selling 2008 book, "Imagining India: Ideas for the New Country," reads like a blueprint for improving governance in India -- though he insists that when he wrote it he wasn't plugging for public office. The book even has a section devoted to national identity cards, which he said would be "transformational" in improving the quality of government services, reducing graft and making India's economic growth more inclusive. "Every piece of life becomes easier," he said. "Just the simple act of saying I stand by who this person claims he is. Can you imagine the value of that?" His challenge is twofold: He must get everyone -- including people in remote tribal areas -- an identification number, and he must ensure that there are no duplicates. Nilekani plans to create a central database of names, modeled on India's electronic securities depository, and use biometrics -- probably some combination of fingerprint and facial identification -- to ensure that every Indian gets assigned one and only one number. The first batch of IDs will come out in 12 to 18 months, he said, but he declined to specify how long it might take to complete the rollout. The agency's initial budget is $24.6 million, but the total cost will likely be far higher. "It will take years and years and years," Nilekani said. "Even if it costs a bit of money, if a few hundred million poor people get better public services, it's worth its weight in gold." Just ask Pralhad Dandekar. The wiry 58-year-old fisherman has been waiting two years for the state government to issue him the fisherman identity card he is required to carry with him when he heads out to sea. "I wait, wait, wait," he said. The process of getting a fisherman ID card, which became compulsory for fishermen after the November terror attack on Mumbai, is so predictably and excruciatingly slow that at least three dozen fishermen societies in Mumbai have started issuing temporary cards so people can work while they await their state government ID. Dandekar has one, and that's the only reason he can ply his trade -- and bring food home for his wife and two daughters -- while he waits. The complexity does not end there. All those cards are only good in the state of Maharashtra. "I need a card that will work all over India," said fisherman Shiv Kumar Chinna Coundar, 38. Every time he docks in a port in a different state, he has to get permission from the customs office. The more permissions required, the more "chai pani" -- literally, "tea water," a local term for bribes -- you have to pay, he and others say. "If they gave us a national identity card, then I wouldn't have to pay chai pani in any state," Coundar said. There's also the question of security. Absent a foolproof way to establish who someone is, many only hire people they know, which cuts off the stream of hungry migrants who pour into Mumbai from jobs. Boat owner Laxman Hiraji Dhanur, 60, said he has become more concerned about security since last year's terror attack on Mumbai. Dhanur lives amid a bright jumble of fishing boats, now docked for the monsoon rains, in Bhai Bhandarkar Machimar Colony -- the same fishing village that 10 Pakistani attackers sneaked through in November before fanning out in pairs to lay siege to the city, killing 166. He said he can never know for certain if people are who they say -- or even if they are really Indian citizens. "I only hire my relatives and friends," Dhanur said. "If we had a foolproof national identity card, I wouldn't worry so much." He said he might even hire strangers. Writ large, that small shift in attitude could mean easier access to jobs for millions of Indians. And that would be a transformation. From lindavie at yahoo.fr Mon Aug 10 17:13:57 2009 From: lindavie at yahoo.fr (Linda Bouifrou) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:43:57 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?Re_=3A_Gazette_85=2E_Et_si_on_d=E9sh?= =?iso-8859-1?q?abillait_le_dictionnaire_=3F?= In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908100409w32dbd84by7a3f0b163bb426c5@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560908100251m61055704t1d54be26379d0bd8@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908100331n1c28c00ehd849fbf88e866741@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908100409w32dbd84by7a3f0b163bb426c5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <283888.13328.qm@web25707.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> PLEASE I WOULD LIKE TO UNSUSCRIBE FROM YOU READER LIST; thanks ------------------------------------------------------------------ BOUIFROU Linda Doctorante en Géographie urbaine spécialisée sur le monde indien Enseignante en Géographie (ATER) UNIVERSITE PARIS 7 LABORATOIRE SEDET -UMR 7135 Université Paris Diderot - Paris 7 Case courrier 7017 75205 PARIS Cedex 13 CENTRE DES SCIENCES HUMAINES - CSH - Ambassade de France en Inde, 2 Aurangzeb Road. New Delhi 110 011 - India. INSTITUT FRANCAIS DE PONDICHERRY - IFP -11, Saint Louis Street. India. PEco-réflexe, n'imprimez ce mail que si nécessaire ________________________________ De : Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi À : Rakesh Iyer Cc : sarai list Envoyé le : Lundi, 10 Août 2009, 13h09mn 17s Objet : Re: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite Rakesh jee, I do not go with hearsay, but live with today, not yesterday.Even Guruji if quoted out of contest like the many do for their celeb status, have truth as they percieve and see it, that is their freedom in speech and action.! Regards, Rajen. On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Rajen > > What do you have to say about Golwalkar? I heard that RSS is unapologetic > about his views, and they agree with him. > > Regards > > Rakesh > -- Rajen. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Aug 10 17:57:21 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:27:21 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?What=92s_so_smart_about_SMART_Card?= =?windows-1252?q?s=3F-_191?= Message-ID: <65be9bf40908100527k6a575d71h623322b15fc58a14@mail.gmail.com> Dear All It seems that with the coming of UID/UIDAI/MNIC and so on, some people in India start initiatives to systematically look into and inquire various policy measures. 'Accountablitiy initiative' seems like one of the first movers in this sector. Mandakini Devasher, a consultant with the initiative suggests, 'The Government of India has been issuing voter ID cards, ration cards and PAN cards for a number of years, yet, discrepancies such as ghost entries, missing beneficiaries, multiple cards continue to exist. These are issues which must be addressed as smart cards become the new mantra in service delivery. As Swaminathan A Aiyar recently observed, there is a real danger of smart cards becoming “just one more scheme, with its own leakages and omissions”. Ironically, it appears we need to be smart about smart cards!' Indeed! May more such initiatives flourish. Ameen!! Warm regards Taha http://accountabilityindia.blogspot.com/2009/08/whats-so-smart-about-smart-cards.html http://accountabilityindia.org/ What’s so smart about SMART Cards? Mandakini Devasher India is undergoing a smart revolution – make that a smart card revolution. Smart cards have been in the news lately with the Government’s decision to set up a Unique Identification Authority (UIDA) to develop multi-purpose identity cards for every Indian. The smart card UIDs are expected to improve national security, enable easy access to government services and help eliminate fraud and corruption in the management of large-scale social welfare schemes as the NREGA and PDS. But, UIDs are just the tip of the iceberg – there is a vast and untapped market for smart cards in India. Growing annually at the rate of 45% the Indian smart card industry is predicted to reach $6 billion by 2010. Basically, smart cards are pocket sized electronic devices that can store a variety of data safely and securely. We are all too are familiar with the many avatars of these nifty devices which include credit cards, ATM cards, fuel and phone cards. Smart cards are commonly used in Europe and other developed countries as they offer governments and service providers and citizens with a number of benefits. First of all, they are portable, easy to use and offer cashless and paperless transactions. They can be used to as a one-stop shop for citizens to access multiple services. Smart cards improve service delivery by connecting clients directly with service providers thereby reducing the discretion of public authorities. If implemented well smart cards can improve service delivery systems to cut out middlemen, corruption and bring services to closer to end users and beneficiaries. From a service delivery and accountability perspective, smart cards can help plug leakages and curb corruption in the implementation of large-scale social welfare schemes. Capable of storing a range of beneficiary data such as name, address, photographs as well as biometric information, smart cards can help in beneficiary selection, identification and targeting under anti-poverty programmes and schemes. The Indian government is experimenting with smart cards in sectors such as health care, transport, social security and defence. Smart cards are increasingly being used to deliver wages, pensions, rations and even health benefits under programmes such as the NREGA and RSBY. A number of States including Andhra Pradesh, Bihar, Delhi, Tamil Nadu amongst others have already begun integrating smart cards in the implementation of government schemes and programmes with interesting results. In Andhra Pradesh, the State Government has tied up with Mumbai based company - Financial Information Network and Operations (FINO) – to provide biometric smart cards to disburse social security pensions and NREGS wages in 5 districts. Following a successful pilot of the smart card initiative in Warangal and Karimnagar districts, smart cards are now being used for disbursement of pensions and NREGS wages in 259 villages in Andhra Pradesh. In Delhi, the State Government has launched “Samajik Suvidha Sangam” (Mission Convergence) to streamline the delivery of basic services in the NCR by converging citizen services provided by various departments into a single window for easier beneficiary access. Key components of the programme include the setting up of a computerised data bank, computer systems at each delivery point and the provision of e-benefit cards to citizens. The e-benefit card is a biometric smart card issued to individuals to provide them with easy access to a number of government services. At a national level, smart cards are being used to deliver health insurance benefits to BPL families under the Rashtriya Swasthiya Bima Yojana (RSBY). Under the scheme, all beneficiaries are issued biometric smart cards that contain the fingerprints and photographs of family members. As of 6 August 2009, 53,77,708 smart cards are active and operational in the country. Increasingly, a number of States are considering using the RSBY smart cards to piggy back other welfare schemes, as the cards now provide a dependable means of beneficiary identification. While there is certainly limitless potential for the use of smart cards in India, there is also need for caution. For one thing, there is a huge gap in our knowledge base about how smart cards actually work on the ground. There is not a lot of data or research that documents the use and impact of smart cards on large-scale social sector programmes like the NREGA or RSBY. There is also little information publicly available about the actual details of how these schemes are being managed. With contracts being awarded to private companies there are growing concerns about the transparency and accountability of these companies to beneficiaries and ultimately taxpayers. However, by far the biggest challenge is surely in the execution and implementation of smart card technologies. Smart cards clearly have the potential to revolutionise the way we think about service delivery – but the success of this technology depends greatly on how well they are implemented. The old adage “well begun but half done” come to mind here. The perennial Achilles heel of India’s many welfare programmes has always been weak implementation. The Government of India has been issuing voter ID cards, ration cards and PAN cards for a number of years, yet, discrepancies such as ghost entries, missing beneficiaries, multiple cards continue to exist. These are issues which must be addressed as smart cards become the new mantra in service delivery. As Swaminathan A Aiyar recently observed, there is a real danger of smart cards becoming “just one more scheme, with its own leakages and omissions”. Ironically, it appears we need to be smart about smart cards! Mandakini Devasher is a Consultant with the Accountability Initiative. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 18:09:26 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:09:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 10 Message-ID: Dear all I am sorry for having not posted any articles for the past 3 days, but it was because of disconnections of the LAN (includes the Net as well) from my hostel as well as some others, due to which I was unable to do so. Hoping to ensure such delays don't occur in future. Special thanks to Aashish for having posted the article from Hindustan Times on the list. For the rest of you, you would be glad to know that Aashish has done summer internship (grass-root work in villages on NREGA) under Jean Dreze, one of the leading development economists of the country. Dreze is known for his books on the subject, some of which are written with the only Indian economist to win the Nobel Prize, Amartya Sen. Dreze is also one of the leading voices in the Right to Food Campaign, and can be credited with having written the entire NREGA for the UPA govt. Regards Rakesh Article: Online edition of India's National Newspaper Sunday, Apr 27, 2003 Group Publications Business Line The Sportstar Frontline The Hindu About Us Contact Us *Magazine * Published on Sundays Features: Magazine | Literary Review | Life| Metro Plus | Open Page| Education | Book Review| Business | SciTech| Entertainment | Young World | Quest| Folio | Magazine [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] * Count down from 2007 * One of the messages of global agriculture is that while the world's population will be better fed by 2030, millions of people in developing countries will remain chronically hungry. Noted agriculture scientist Dr. M.S. SWAMINATHAN outlines a 12-point plan to achieve the goal of a hunger-free India. * There must be action to permanently remove the root causes of food crises. * DURING the last three years, scientists of the M.S. Swaminathan Research Foundation at Chennai and of the U.N. World Food Programme (WFP), New Delhi, have been working together on the causes of food insecurity in rural and urban India using multiple indicators relating to food availability, access and absorption in the body. The Food Insecurity Atlases of Rural and Urban India provide valuable guidelines for public action to end chronic under-and mal-nutrition in the different States. Using these guidelines, an action plan was developed at a multi-stakeholder consultation held at New Delhi between April 4 and 5, 2003, under the joint auspices of the MSSRF, the WFP and the Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO). Releasing the Food Insecurity Atlas of Rural India on April 24, 2001, the Prime Minister, Atal Bihari Vajpayee, called for concerted action to achieve substantial freedom from hunger by August 15, 2007, which marks the 60th anniversary of independence, thereby helping to fulfil the hope of Mahatma Gandhi that no child, woman or man should go to bed hungry in independent India. To quote Mr. Vajpayee: "The sacred mission of a `Hunger Free India' needs the cooperative efforts of the Central and State Governments, local self-government bodies, non-governmental organisations, international agencies and above all, our citizens. We can indeed banish hunger from our country in a short time. Let us resolve today to make this mission substantially successful by 2007, which will mark the sixtieth anniversary of our independence." *The Challenge: * * *The quantitative and qualitative dimensions of the challenge of achieving a hunger-free India are daunting. The incidence of poverty, endemic hunger, communicable diseases, infant and maternal mortality rates, low birth weight children and stunting and illiteracy is high. There are however many examples where progress in the elimination of poverty-induced hunger has been rapid because of a symphony approach in dealing with the multi-dimensional problem of hunger and malnutrition. Successful experiences in the elimination of hunger and poverty have shown that synergy between political will and action and strategic partnerships can help local communities to achieve seemingly impossible tasks. Such *"messages and methods of hope"* should therefore be documented and spread widely, since they not only inspire confidence that the goal of a hunger-free India can be achieved, but will also help to build the self-confidence of all engaged in the mission of overcoming under-and mal-nutrition. *Basic Approach: Food with Human Dignity * * *Food with Human Dignity should be the basic approach. The poor should not be subjected to a patronage approach and referred to as "beneficiaries" but should be treated as partners in achieving the aim of ensuring that every child, woman and man in the country has an opportunity for a productive and healthy life. The right to adequate food and clean drinking water should be regarded as a basic right. *Thrust of the Tenth Five Year Plan (2002-2007): * * *The Tenth Five Year Plan has shifted the emphasis from food security at the household level to nutrition security at the level of each individual. Emphasis has been placed on employment, education, health and nutrition, which are all important for poverty eradication and hunger elimination. The inter-sectoral nature of chronic hunger has been recognised. By shifting the attention to individuals, the strategies adopted will be based on the principle of *social inclusion *and will help to foster a life cycle approach in nutrition interventions. For example, pregnant women will need special attention, since maternal and foetal under nutrition leads to the birth of babies characterised by a weight of less than 2.5 kg at the time of delivery. Such low birth weight (LBW) children suffer several handicaps in later life and may not be able to express their innate genetic potential for mental and physical development. Such inequity at birth is inexcusable since we are now entering a knowledge based economy. Similarly, the elderly and the infirm need special attention. Thanks to advances in preventive and curative medicine, we are now adding years to life. However, we should pay equal attention to adding life to years through nutrition and health care. We should recognise that we are now entering a new chapter in human longevity. There is, therefore, need for a proper match between nutrition requirements and nutrition support at different stages in the life of an individual. * FOOD INSECURITY ATLAS OF RURAL INDIA/PUBLISHED BY MSSRF and WFP, 2001 * Hunger is the extreme manifestation of poverty, since the poor spend a high proportion of their earning on food. The elimination of hunger is thus the first requisite for eradicating poverty. Without adequate nutrition, the energy needed for higher work output will not exist in malnourished individuals. *Guiding Principles for Converting Goals into Accomplishments: * * * *Decentralisation: * * * The desired goal can be achieved speedily and surely only if a decentralised approach to implementation is adopted. *"Think, plan and act locally and support at the State and national levels"* should be the motto. Elected local bodies, together with the departments of Government (Health, education, women and child welfare, rural and tribal development, etc.) concerned should prepare *Micro-level **Action Plans*. They should form a local level *"Alliance for a healthy and productive life for all"*. Elected members of local bodies, particularly the one million elected women members can be empowered to spearhead the freedom from hunger movement, since they are more aware of the problems of nutrition and drinking water. Decentralisation will enhance accountability, reduce transaction costs and remove corruption in delivery systems. *Life-cycle Approach: * * * For ensuring nutrition security at the level of each individual, a life-cycle approach is necessary so that the nutrition needs of an individual can be met from birth to death. Special programmes for adolescent girls, pregnant women, nursing mothers, infants (0-2 years) and the elderly and the infirm should continue. What is needed is the horizontal integration of numerous vertically structured programmes. Such a functional integration will help to create a symphony at the level of each village/town/city to ensure that all links in the food availability-access-absorption chain function at a high level of efficiency and effectiveness. Management tools and not additional monetary support will be needed to bring about at the field level such convergence and synergy among ongoing programmes. * Information, education and communication: * * * There is need for launching a Nutritional Literacy movement to spread an awareness of the adverse consequences of malnutrition induced intellectual and physical dwarfism among children. The Nutritional Literacy movement should include issues relating to food safety, *codex alimentarius *standards, sanitary and phytosanitary measures, etc. The mass media, particularly those in the public sector like Doordarshan and All India Radio can play a very important role in making the Hunger-free India movement a success. Community Radio stations, giving location-specific information, should be encouraged to assist other mass media in spreading messages of hope. It will be useful to set up *M**edia Resource Centres for a Hunger-free India*. Such centres can provide credible and timely information to the print, audio, video and new (i.e. internet) media. *Household Entitlement card: * * * It will be useful to provide every family with an *E**ntitlement Card*, giving information on the various government projects which they can access. The information may be disaggregated by gender, age, religion, caste and class, and precise addresses of contact persons and offices may be given. Such information will enable everyone to make the best use of their entitlements. A single step of this kind will help enormously to ensure the effective utilisation of all the schemes of central and State governments and bilateral and multilateral donors. *Asset Building and Community Development: * * * The poor are poor because they have no assets like land, livestock or a fish pond. They often are illiterate and lack proper dwelling units. They survive on wage employment, which, particularly in the case of women, does not reach the level of even the prescribed minimum wage. A massive effort is needed to help them to shift from unskilled to skilled work through training in market-driven skills. The on-going micro-finance led self-help revolution will be the fastest way to help them to rise above the poverty level. This will call for establishing effective forward and backward linkages, particularly with technology sources and markets. Insurance and Venture Capital support should also be available to micro-enterprises. We have now an opportunity to leapfrog in achieving our goal of enabling every one to earn his/her daily bread. *Capacity Building: * * * Since a decentralised approach involving the empowerment of over three million women and men members of local bodies holds the key to the success of this national movement for food and clean drinking water for all, it is essential that a national consortium of Agricultural, Rural and Womens' Universities as well as government and non-governmental training and research institutions is formed for undertaking capacity building in areas such as management, communication and organisational skills with reference to the implementation of the hunger-free area programme. The capacity building programmes can be organised on a *T**rainers' Training model*, in order to achieve a multiplier effect. *Initiation of a National Food for Social Capital Programme: * * *The social capital of a country is the product of interaction between the human capital and the cultural, political, economic, nutritional and natural environments. Human and social capitals constitute the most precious wealth of a nation. Mahatma Gandhi and Vinobha Bhave advocated the principles of * antyodaya* and *sarvodaya* for achieving high social synergy and capital. A society committed to building its social capital will try to promote programmes which represent a "win-win" situation for all, thereby avoiding winners and losers and the consequent social conflict and disruption. During the last few years, the Government of India as well as some State Governments have initiated many programmes like *"Sampoorn Gramin Rozgar Yojana", "Annapoorna", "Antyodaya Anna Yojana", "Universal Noon-meal Programme for School Children",* etc. It is now clear that our farmers will produce more if we can enhance consumption and thereby opportunities for assured and remunerative marketing. Therefore, the initiation of a National Food Guarantee Scheme will help to ensure that all who are hungry today due to a lack of livelihood opportunities or other constraints are able to have food for a productive life. Such a National Food Guarantee Scheme can serve as an umbrella for all ongoing projects like those mentioned earlier. In addition, it can provide food grains for initiating a *Nagarpalika Rozgar Yojana *as well as for a wide variety of social support initiatives like Food for Health (TB, HIV/AIDS, malaria etc.,), Food for those employed in ICDS, nutritious noon meal and other similar projects. *In other words, food can become a powerful currency for achieving the goal of a hunger-free India.* Using food as a currency has twin advantages, namely, there could be greater off-take of food grains from farmers, thereby providing them with an incentive to produce more, and secondly for meeting the immediate needs of the poor, destitutes, migrant labour and all who are under nourished today. The Urban Food Insecurity Atlas released by the President in October 2002 clearly brings out the urgent need for attending to the hunger problems of the bottom 10 per cent of the poor (ultra-poor) in towns and cities. *Therefore, the setting up of an umbrella programme combining the principles of the Employment Guarantee Scheme of Maharashtra and of various Food for Work Programmes under a National Food for Social Capital Programme will be timely.* This could serve as the hub of a series of activities. It can start with a total allocation of 15 to 20 million tonnes of food grains during 2003-04. Such a block grant of food grains can be managed by a *M**alnutrition-free India Trust*, headed by the deputy chairman of the Planning Commission. The trust can sanction small projects to meet specific local requirements as well as to fill gaps in the ongoing programmes. At least five million tonnes of grain should be available to support local level Community Food Banks in "hunger and hydrologic hot spot" areas and specific programmes designed to improve maternal and foetal nutrition as well as to provide nutrition support to those affected by TB, leprosy and other diseases. Such a Food Guarantee Initiative will be psychologically an important index of the capability of farmers to produce more on the one hand, and the political commitment to achieve the Prime Minister's goal of a hunger-free India by August 15, 2007, on the other. *Monitoring and Evaluation:* This could be done at various levels starting with Gram Sabha and citizens groups (like the Right to Food Group) government agencies and research institutions. An effective and transparent monitoring system will also help to ensure the implementation of the directives of the Supreme Court. *Consultative Group for Freedom from Hunger: * * * * The elimination of hunger is the first requisite for alieviating poverty. * * * * *Both at the national and State levels, multi-stakeholder Consultative groups for "Agenda 2007: Hunger-free India" could be organised comprising representatives of the ministries and departments concerned, professional experts, the National Commission for Women, civil society organisations, business and industry, the mass media and bilateral and multilateral donors, with the Planning Commission serving as a nodal agency for such a consultative group. Such a CGFFH would help to foster strategic partnerships as well as synergy among political leaders, professionals and peoples' organisations. *Standing Committee of the National Development Council (NDC): * * *A standing committee of the NDC could be set up for monitoring progress and ensuring the success of Agenda 2007. The NDC Committee, chaired by the Prime Minister, could include chief ministers where there is widespread under-and mal-nutrition as well as of food secure states, so that there could be lateral sharing of experiences among States. Such a standing committee could provide the political guidance and support needed for implementing this important programme. *Immediate action during 2003-2004: * * *Besides the announcement of the 20 million tonnes Food for Social Capital Programme and the setting up of a Malnutrition-free India Trust, immediate action needs to be taken to end poverty induced chronic hunger and the transient hunger caused by drought and natural calamities through a series of Community Food, Fodder and Feed Banks. Such banks may be established in all the "hunger hot spots" of the country. CFBs managed by local self-help groups, preferably of women, would save considerable transaction and transport costs. They will also help to widen the food security basket through inclusion of local grains like millets, pulses, oilseeds and tubers. It will also be advisable to reclassify coarse cereals as "nutritious grains" in order to underline their desirable nutritive properties. *No time to relax on the Food Production Front.* While the alleviation of hunger by improving access to income and balanced diets and safe drinking water should receive high priority, there is no time to relax on the food production front. We need to bring about productivity, quality (including food safety), profitability and sustainability revolutions in farming based on a Farming Systems Approach. There is an urgent need for enhancement of investment in agriculture and rural infrastructure development. There is also need for conferring on small producers the power of scale through cooperatives, self-help groups and other socially viable methods of group endeavour both at the production and post-harvest phases of farming. Our spectatular progress in the dairy sector is largely though such management innovations. There is need for a movement for trade and quality literacy including an understanding of sanitary and phytosanitary measures and *codex alimentarius *standards. There is also need for launching a *Jal Swaraj *and Water Literacy Movement. Above all, there is need for a paradigm shift from jobless to job-led growth in order to ensure that every poor person is enabled to *earn* his or her daily bread. Unless our agricultural competitiveness improves, our earnings from the farm sector in international markets will not grow significantly. In a predominantly rural and agricultural country like India, agricultural progress (i.e. crop and animal husbandry, fisheries, forestry and agro-forestry and agro-processing) is the most effective social safety net against hunger and poverty. Hence, the ongoing fatigue of the green revolution in wheat, rice and other major crops should be converted into an ever-green revolution designed to promote productivity improvement in perpetuity without associated ecological harm. A beginning has been made in the Union Budget for 2003-04 to focus attention on precision farming, economic use of water and nutrients through fertigation techniques and green house horticulture. Such a focus on improving factor productivity in agriculture should be further enlarged to cover all the major agro-ecosystems. Agricultural and rural development, if given adequate and appropriate attention, will help the country to take to the path of job-led economic growth. Our substantial grain and foreign exchange reserves and the three million women and men elected members of local bodies have provided us with an uncommon opportunity for launching a frontal attack on hunger and poverty. *It will be a tragedy if we don't act, when we are in a position to act.* To conclude, the "Agenda 2007: Hunger Free Area Programme" should keep in mind the following advice of Gandhiji given before his death. "Forget the past. Remember every day dawns for us from the moment we wake up. Let us all, every one, wake up now". *The writer is the chairman of the M.S. Swaminathan Research Foundation. He has worked for the past 45 years with scientists and policy makers on a range of problems in basic and applied plant genetics as well as in agricultural research and development. * * * * * Printer friendly page Send this article to Friends by E-Mail Magazine Features: Magazine | Literary Review | Life| Metro Plus | Open Page| Education | Book Review| Business | SciTech| Entertainment | Young World | Quest| Folio | Select Articles - Count down from 2007 - Re-crowning the Queen of Hills - Mahatma for sale - Art for the power hungry Archives - Datewise - Issues - Cuisine - Travel - Gardening News News Update Front Page National Regional: • Southern States • Other States International Opinion Business Sport Miscellaneous Index ------------------------------ The Hindu Group: Home | About Us| Copyright | Archives| Contacts | Subscription Group Sites: The Hindu | Business Line| The Sportstar | Frontline| The Hindu eBooks | Home| Comments to : thehindu at vsnl.com Copyright © 2003, The Hindu Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of The Hindu ------------------------------ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 18:21:44 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:21:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Right To Food Article's - 9 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I was highly appalled on reading this article, having completed my entire schooling in Madhya Pradesh and considering myself to be of this state (rather than Tamil Nadu which seems alien to me in many respects, though I accept I am a Tamil). I still wonder how did the BJP win at all in the 2008 elections, when the levels of education and health are actually falling or hardly rising in different parts of the state. What is particularly shameful is also the kind of debates which took place around the elections, regarding Sadhvi Pragya and Mumbai blasts, rather than concentrating on the performance of the Shivraj Singh Chauhan-led state govt in the past 5 years. Better debates on public action and policy would definitely have seen the end of BJP govt, which has not only been a failure on health and education fronts, but also on the law and order front, and soon if this continues, MP will become the next Bihar. And unlike Bihar, we don't have a Nitish Kumar to save ourselves. I will just put one more incident which people would like to know. In the Sabharwal murder case (where Prof. Sabharwal was murdered), the cameras and media people had actually recorded the proceedings which finally resulted in death of the professor. And yet, when it came to collecting evidence, all that was 'gone'! How come this happened, is of course a question which the higher authorities may have an answer to. And when witnesses turned hostile, the farcical nature of the trial was out in the open. And finally, once the ABVP activists were acquitted, they were celebrating with processions of the kind seen in marriage parties, in Bhopal, right in front of the CM's house, and undertook a yatra for the same, resulting in problems of traffic management. When goondas celebrate such acquittals right in front of the CM's house, you know what is the state of law and order there. I don't think even Bihar would have witnessed such a scene in the 15 years of Lalu raj. Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 18:34:46 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:34:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 10 Message-ID: ------------------------------ [image: Frontline] *Volume 25 - Issue 22 :: Oct. 25-Nov. 07, 2008* INDIA'S NATIONAL MAGAZINE from the publishers of THE HINDU *•* Contents ------------------------------ [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] *DEPRIVATION* * Dying of hunger * AJOY ASHIRWAD MAHAPRASHASTA *in Satna* * Malnourished tribal children die because ICDS schemes are all but non-existent, and the government is in denial. * PRAMOD PRADHAN * At Hardua village in Ucchera block of Satna district, a child with Grade 3 malnourishment and suffering from skin infection. * THE final five kilometres to Ramnagar (Khokla), as the village is officially called, in Satna district of Madhya Pradesh has to be done on foot down a hill thick with shrubs and bushes. As we enter the village, eager eyes scan us for food or some other kind of livelihood support only to droop in disappointment once they learn that the wait has been in vain. The people of the Kol and Mawasi tribes who inhabit this village are a desperate lot: they have neither employment nor food, and their malnourished children are dying. In the past four months at least four children have died and those standing by the side of their elders had protruding stomachs, sunken eyes, wrinkled legs and slightly deformed heads, all symptoms of malnutrition. Ramnagar has one small *pucca *house where the school, the anganwadi (government-run creche) and the panchayat sub-office function from. The people overcame their timidity despite the presence of the village patwari and the gram panchayat secretary to tell *Frontline *that the anganwadi and the ration shop had been closed for almost the whole of last year. Sukhlal, one of the village elders, said: “Only a month back the preparation of the midday meal in the school and the anganwadi’s supplementary nutrition programme and the work through the National Rural Employment Guarantee Programme [NREGP] were given to us. We didn’t get even six days of employment by the government last year and the ration shop opened only once in six months.” But the district records claim that one person from each of the 100 families in the village was given 60 to 94 days of employment and each family got 35 kg of grain (wheat or rice) every month. The story is no different in Hardua and Nakgheer villages, a 60-km drive from Satna town cutting through difficult rocky terrain and streams. Neither village has electricity but it is not a priority for the residents. “All we want is food and employment,” said Jagannath, an elder in Hardua. Here, too, children have died of malnutrition-related causes. Pappu, a resident of Hardua, lost two of his children in August on consecutive days. “We don’t know what happened to them. They had fever for many days and none of the medicines we gave seemed to have any effect,” he said. “And because we have very little money and a very low income, we could not feed them well,” he added. Most of the people living in such difficult conditions blamed destiny for the deaths, and in the extreme called it God’s will. They have been looking forward in vain to the government support they had been promised by political parties during elections. The issue came to the fore when people from 150 villages of Satna district at a meeting on August 24 decided to boycott elections if their women and children continued to suffer for want of food. An investigation by the Right to Food campaign claimed that at least 163 children died of severe malnutrition in the past four months in four districts of Madhya Pradesh – Satna (69), Khandwa (47), Shivpuri (32) and Sheopur (15). All the children belonged to tribal/indigenous communities – Kol, Mawasi, Saheriya and Korku. These are some of the most deprived communities in the State; most of their members are landless and have no permanent source of income. Their food insecurity and deprivation have been worsened because of schemes that do not function and corruption in the NREGP and the public distribution system (PDS). In Bhopal, a senior official of the Department of Women and Child Development, who did not want to be named, said: “Why is the government blamed for everything negative that happens in the State? Shouldn’t the tribal community be blamed for malnutrition in the villages, for neglecting their children and for lack of hygiene in their houses?” Such bureaucratic insouciance is up against a court directive. On September 26, the Madhya Pradesh High Court ordered Chief Secretary Rakesh Sahni to file a report on the malnutrition deaths in the State by October 13. It also asked the Collectors of the four districts to file affidavits regarding the deaths. The court was hearing a public interest petition filed in May 2007 by the Madhya Pradesh Right to Food campaign. The court also stated that malnutrition could be a possible reason for the recent deaths. This was in contrast to the State government’s position. The public interest petition sought District Collectors and the Chief Secretary to be made accountable for the lack of implementation of the Integrated Child Development Services (ICDS) Scheme. Earlier, the Supreme Court, while passing an interim order on May 8, 2002, in *PUCL vs. Union of India and others, *stated that District Collectors, Chief Executive Officers and the Chief Secretary should be held responsible for the lack of implementation of the ICDS. Meanwhile, in Satna, the district administration’s response to the deaths has been one of denial. District Collector Vijay Anand Kuril said: “There are malnourished children in Satna and we have already submitted our report to the Health Department. However, the recent deaths of children in the district were not because of malnutrition but because of various diseases like jaundice, diarrhoea and fever, heat stroke, and so on.” A joint team of State and Central government officials visited the district in the last week of September and, according to the Collector, found no Grade 3 and Grade 4 malnourished children in its villages. The district officer of the Women and Child Development Department, M.L. Mehra, also denied any malnutrition-related deaths. The United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF) has graded malnutrition cases into four, and of these Grade 3 and Grade 4 represent severe malnourishment and children detected to be in these categories require immediate care. Damning statistics AJOY ASHIRWAD MAHAPRASHASTA * A typical example of a Grade 3 malnourished child at Ramnagar(Khokla) village in Majhgawan block of Satna district. * Madhya Pradesh tops the list of States in infant mortality rate (IMR), with 72 deaths per 1,000 live births, according to the Sample Registration Survey 2007-08. Even the State government website shows that 97,223 children in the age group of 0-1 year died of malnutrition between April 2005 and July 2008. Madhya Pradesh also tops the list of States in undernourishment in the latest National Family Health Survey (NFHS-3), with 60.3 per cent of the children suffering from malnutrition. The NFHS-3 shows a 6 per cent increase over NFHS-2 in malnutrition-related deaths in the State. The total number of malnourished children in the State has risen to more than six million, according to the report. Of them, 12.6 per cent are severely malnourished as against the national average of 6.4 per cent. According to senior officials in the administration, the State has, with the assistance of UNICEF and the World Food Programme, unveiled special schemes such as the Bal Shakti Yojana, Shaktimaan and the Bal Sanjeevani Abhiyan to treat severely malnourished children. Besides, it has advocated community-based programmes to tackle the problem. All these schemes come under the ICDS, a major scheme for children under six years of age, who comprise 16 per cent of the total population in the State according to Census 2001. If allocation of funds is any indication, the ICDS is not a priority for the State government. It spends only 0.86 per cent of its total budget through the ICDS for children under six. Incidentally, only 1.51 per cent of the State’s budget is allocated for the Department of Women and Child Development. In money terms, the allocation is Rs.590 crore, up from Rs.190 crore last year. But only Rs.222 crore has been allocated for the implementation of the ICDS in 2008-09 against the need of Rs.799 crore. All the 1.078 crore children under six years of age in the State should be covered through universalisation of the ICDS, the Supreme Court had ruled in *PUCL vs. Union of India and others*. For this purpose, only 67,000 anganwadi centres are functional, whereas, according to informed sources, the actual need is for 1.26 lakh centres. The Seventh Report of the Commissioners of the Supreme Court states that as per Census 2001 as many as 6.6 million children are enrolled in anganwadis run under the ICDS in Madhya Pradesh, but only 3.89 million, or 35.9 per cent, get supplementary nutrition from the State through anganwadis. Satna district, where the deaths of children were first reported, presents a bleaker picture. Even the Women and Child Development Department’s figure for Grade 3 and Grade 4 malnourished children in 28 villages in the district is more than 4,000, but between January and August 2008 only 435 children were brought to nutrition rehabilitation centres (NRCs). Of the eight blocks in Satna, there are only two functional NRCs, with a total of 26 beds. The one in Satna has 20 beds and 36 children are being treated there, and the one in Nagod block has six beds. An NRC has been sanctioned in Malhar block but it is not yet functional. The NRCs, which fall under the Public Health Department, get a list of malnourished children from the Women and Child Development Department. However, officials of both the departments deny their responsibility for the deaths in the district and shift the blame to the other. A senior official of the Women and Child Development Department, who did not want to be named, said children were 10 times more prone to fatal infection because of malnutrition. Despite this, the State has only 121 NRCs, according to the official figures, and only 95 of them are fully functional. These centres have only 1,678 beds to take care of 13 lakh children. A Right to Food campaign activist, Prashant Kumar, said: “With the present 14-day package for children at NRCs, it would take 33 years to reach and serve all the malnourished children in Madhya Pradesh. Alarmingly, 49 NRCs have no trained staff.” After the local media carried reports of the malnutrition-related deaths, the NRCs extended their seven-day supplementary nutrition programme to 14 days. Under this package, the child is brought to the NRC and given adequate nutrition for 14 days. After that the NRC has to follow up on the condition of the child every seven days until the child comes out of Grade 3 malnutrition. Given this state of affairs, it was no surprise that the Satna district administration was wary of giving the media details of the implementation of various schemes. In fact, throughout the *Frontline* team’s stay, its movements were monitored by the police and the civil administration. The police said the monitoring was being done because free movement in the area involved risk as it was a “dacoit-infested” area. However, they seemed more interested in knowing what the team was doing and what conversations it had with the people. Collector Kuril even said the reporter should have sought his permission before coming there. According to informed sources, the district administration has been suppressing details of severely malnourished children in Satna. According to Kuril, all the Grade 3 and Grade 4 category children in the district are being treated in the NRCs. However, doctors in the blocks, who did not want to be named, said there were many more severely malnourished children and alleged that there was pressure from the district administration not to report such cases. In the 11th edition of the six-monthly report of the Bal Sanjeevani Abhiyan, published in November 2007, the government committed a *faux pas*. The report says that 3,18,371 children were weighed and only 2,941 of them were found to be malnourished. It says that the severely malnourished in Satna district form 0.92 per cent, which would be 2,557 children. PRAMOD PRADHAN * The meeting on August 24 in Majhgawan block, at which people from 150 villages in Satna district participated and decided to boycott elections if the government continued to neglect their women and children. * In the same report, in another table, this figure is given as 0.80 per cent, which would mean 2,173 children. That is, 384 children were wiped out of the records. When the local media highlighted the anomaly, the government removed the second table from the report. The figures of malnutrition in the NFHS and UNICEF reports are very different from those in the government’s records. The NFHS-3 says that there are 12.65 per cent severely malnourished children in the State as opposed to the State government’s figure of 0.56 per cent. Officials in the ICDS say they have their own parameters to judge malnutrition. This is despite the fact that UNICEF was appointed by the Madhya Pradesh government to oversee the process of women and child development in the State. The shoddy implementation of the PDS and the NREGP has compounded the problem in the villages worst affected by malnutrition. The Supreme Court has stipulated that the poor, including below poverty line and Antyodaya Anna Yojana cardholders, should be provided at least 35 kg of grain, but people in Satna district say they do not get more than 20 kg. While the district administration claimed that it gives 94 days of employment in the villages, the people said they did not get even a single day of work last year and not more than six days this year. The residents of Hardua village also said that the sarpanch had taken away their job cards and that he himself filled up the registers. With the government looking to promote private industrial investment, the tribal people may have to face a new problem: large-scale displacement. The government claims to have signed memorandums of understanding (MoUs) worth Rs.3,00,000 crore with private companies, particularly in the mining sector. A move to privatise the health sector is also apparent in the setting up of the Rogi Kalyan Samiti, a public-private venture where the community would generate funds for treatment of the poor. There are also plans to give children in anganwadis ready-to-eat food provided by private companies through the supplementary nutrition programme. This may not go down well with the tribal people, who have their own unique food habits. A pilot project to distribute ready-to-use therapeutic food (RUTF) has been on since September in Khalwa block of Khandwa district under the directive of the Union Ministry of Women and Child Development. The aim is to treat severely acute malnourished (SAM) children, but critics of the programme see in it an avenue to generate a market for ready-to-use foods among the poor. With almost all their community rights over forests taken away and with employment opportunities dwindling, the future looks anything but promising for the tribal people of Madhya Pradesh. * * ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Printer friendly page Send this article to Friends by E-Mail ------------------------------ Subscribe | Contact Us | Archives| Contents (Letters to the Editor should carry the full postal address) ------------------------------ Home | The Hindu | Business Line | Sportstar | Publications | eBooks| Images ------------------------------ Copyright © 2008, Frontline. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of Frontline ------------------------------ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 18:37:30 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:37:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 10 Message-ID: ------------------------------ [image: Frontline] *Volume 25 - Issue 13 :: Jun. 21-Jul. 04, 2008* INDIA'S NATIONAL MAGAZINE from the publishers of THE HINDU *•* Contents ------------------------------ [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] *UPDATE* * Hunger can wait * EDGARD GARRIDO/REUTERS * A severely malnourished nine-year-old boy, weighing 8 kg, in San Pedro Sula, Honduras, on March 8. The resolution of the World Food Summit, where rich countries led by the U.S. were keener on reducing “barriers to trade”, did not fully reflect the developing world’s concerns. * AN unprecedented number of world leaders assembled in Rome in the first week of June for the World Food Summit even as rising food prices were triggering political instability in many parts of the world. Their focus was naturally on alleviating the threat posed by rising prices. Leaders from developing countries put the onus of the current situation on the policies of the rich countries. The speeches by the Presidents of Brazil, Iran and Zimbabwe reflected this line of thinking. Jacques Diouf, Director General of the Food and Agricultural Organisation (FAO), appealed for a $30 billion fund to revive agriculture in Africa and other parts of the world and to avert conflict over food. Diouf noted that the world had spent $1,200 billion on arms in 2006 while excess consumption of food and wastage in developed countries cost $120 billion. The Rome summit was supposed to conclude with a clarion call to “eliminate hunger and secure food for all”. But a lack of consensus resulted in a watered-down resolution that did not fully reflect the concerns of the developing world. The rich countries led by the United States were keener on reducing “barriers to trade”. For the establishments of the developed world, food is just another commodity to be traded like clothes and cars. In most developing countries, the right to food is considered a fundamental right. At Rome, the leaders promised to help finance research into new seeds and help small farmers by making fertilizers available at an affordable price. This will be an uphill task, given the acute shortage of water and the high price of oil. Diouf’s appeal for more funding elicited a lukewarm response. Saudi Arabia made a donation of $500 million, just before the start of the summit. None of the other rich countries followed suit. Diouf said that he found it “incomprehensible” that the food crisis remained unsolved at a time when subsidies worth $12 billion were used to divert 100 million tonnes of cereals from human consumption to the production of biofuels in the developed countries. Non-governmental organisations had called for a total ban on ethanol output, claiming that such a move would reduce food prices by 20 per cent. The U.S. says that ethanol production has raised prices by only 2-3 per cent. International Food Policy Research Institute, a Washington-based think tank, estimated that ethanol production has raised food prices by 30 per cent. The FAO and the U.N. have both acknowledged that there is enough food grown in the world to feed all its people. Last year there was sufficient food to provide 2,800 calories for every person. The FAO says that by 2030, with increased agricultural outputs, the projected human population of 8.3 billion could receive 3,050 calories a day. But the policies being implemented by rich countries such as the U.S. have the potential to undermine optimistic predictions. Haiti, one of the worst-affected countries, was self-sufficient in rice until 1986. That year, the International Monetary Fund forced the country to remove its trade barriers as a precondition for debt waivers. Cheap American rice, heavily subsidised by the U.S. government, soon flooded the Haitian market, killing the domestic rice-growing industry. *John Cherian* * * ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Printer friendly page Send this article to Friends by E-Mail ------------------------------ Subscribe | Contact Us | Archives| Contents (Letters to the Editor should carry the full postal address) ------------------------------ Home | The Hindu | Business Line | Sportstar | Publications | eBooks| Images ------------------------------ Copyright © 2008, Frontline. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of Frontline ------------------------------ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 18:34:14 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:34:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 10 Message-ID: Online edition of India's National Newspaper Sunday, Apr 27, 2003 Group Publications Business Line The Sportstar Frontline The Hindu About Us Contact Us *Magazine * Published on Sundays Features: Magazine | Literary Review | Life| Metro Plus | Open Page| Education | Book Review| Business | SciTech| Entertainment | Young World | Quest| Folio | Magazine [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] * Count down from 2007 * One of the messages of global agriculture is that while the world's population will be better fed by 2030, millions of people in developing countries will remain chronically hungry. Noted agriculture scientist Dr. M.S. SWAMINATHAN outlines a 12-point plan to achieve the goal of a hunger-free India. * There must be action to permanently remove the root causes of food crises. * DURING the last three years, scientists of the M.S. Swaminathan Research Foundation at Chennai and of the U.N. World Food Programme (WFP), New Delhi, have been working together on the causes of food insecurity in rural and urban India using multiple indicators relating to food availability, access and absorption in the body. The Food Insecurity Atlases of Rural and Urban India provide valuable guidelines for public action to end chronic under-and mal-nutrition in the different States. Using these guidelines, an action plan was developed at a multi-stakeholder consultation held at New Delhi between April 4 and 5, 2003, under the joint auspices of the MSSRF, the WFP and the Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO). Releasing the Food Insecurity Atlas of Rural India on April 24, 2001, the Prime Minister, Atal Bihari Vajpayee, called for concerted action to achieve substantial freedom from hunger by August 15, 2007, which marks the 60th anniversary of independence, thereby helping to fulfil the hope of Mahatma Gandhi that no child, woman or man should go to bed hungry in independent India. To quote Mr. Vajpayee: "The sacred mission of a `Hunger Free India' needs the cooperative efforts of the Central and State Governments, local self-government bodies, non-governmental organisations, international agencies and above all, our citizens. We can indeed banish hunger from our country in a short time. Let us resolve today to make this mission substantially successful by 2007, which will mark the sixtieth anniversary of our independence." *The Challenge: * * *The quantitative and qualitative dimensions of the challenge of achieving a hunger-free India are daunting. The incidence of poverty, endemic hunger, communicable diseases, infant and maternal mortality rates, low birth weight children and stunting and illiteracy is high. There are however many examples where progress in the elimination of poverty-induced hunger has been rapid because of a symphony approach in dealing with the multi-dimensional problem of hunger and malnutrition. Successful experiences in the elimination of hunger and poverty have shown that synergy between political will and action and strategic partnerships can help local communities to achieve seemingly impossible tasks. Such *"messages and methods of hope"* should therefore be documented and spread widely, since they not only inspire confidence that the goal of a hunger-free India can be achieved, but will also help to build the self-confidence of all engaged in the mission of overcoming under-and mal-nutrition. *Basic Approach: Food with Human Dignity * * *Food with Human Dignity should be the basic approach. The poor should not be subjected to a patronage approach and referred to as "beneficiaries" but should be treated as partners in achieving the aim of ensuring that every child, woman and man in the country has an opportunity for a productive and healthy life. The right to adequate food and clean drinking water should be regarded as a basic right. *Thrust of the Tenth Five Year Plan (2002-2007): * * *The Tenth Five Year Plan has shifted the emphasis from food security at the household level to nutrition security at the level of each individual. Emphasis has been placed on employment, education, health and nutrition, which are all important for poverty eradication and hunger elimination. The inter-sectoral nature of chronic hunger has been recognised. By shifting the attention to individuals, the strategies adopted will be based on the principle of *social inclusion *and will help to foster a life cycle approach in nutrition interventions. For example, pregnant women will need special attention, since maternal and foetal under nutrition leads to the birth of babies characterised by a weight of less than 2.5 kg at the time of delivery. Such low birth weight (LBW) children suffer several handicaps in later life and may not be able to express their innate genetic potential for mental and physical development. Such inequity at birth is inexcusable since we are now entering a knowledge based economy. Similarly, the elderly and the infirm need special attention. Thanks to advances in preventive and curative medicine, we are now adding years to life. However, we should pay equal attention to adding life to years through nutrition and health care. We should recognise that we are now entering a new chapter in human longevity. There is, therefore, need for a proper match between nutrition requirements and nutrition support at different stages in the life of an individual. * FOOD INSECURITY ATLAS OF RURAL INDIA/PUBLISHED BY MSSRF and WFP, 2001 * Hunger is the extreme manifestation of poverty, since the poor spend a high proportion of their earning on food. The elimination of hunger is thus the first requisite for eradicating poverty. Without adequate nutrition, the energy needed for higher work output will not exist in malnourished individuals. *Guiding Principles for Converting Goals into Accomplishments: * * * *Decentralisation: * * * The desired goal can be achieved speedily and surely only if a decentralised approach to implementation is adopted. *"Think, plan and act locally and support at the State and national levels"* should be the motto. Elected local bodies, together with the departments of Government (Health, education, women and child welfare, rural and tribal development, etc.) concerned should prepare *Micro-level **Action Plans*. They should form a local level *"Alliance for a healthy and productive life for all"*. Elected members of local bodies, particularly the one million elected women members can be empowered to spearhead the freedom from hunger movement, since they are more aware of the problems of nutrition and drinking water. Decentralisation will enhance accountability, reduce transaction costs and remove corruption in delivery systems. *Life-cycle Approach: * * * For ensuring nutrition security at the level of each individual, a life-cycle approach is necessary so that the nutrition needs of an individual can be met from birth to death. Special programmes for adolescent girls, pregnant women, nursing mothers, infants (0-2 years) and the elderly and the infirm should continue. What is needed is the horizontal integration of numerous vertically structured programmes. Such a functional integration will help to create a symphony at the level of each village/town/city to ensure that all links in the food availability-access-absorption chain function at a high level of efficiency and effectiveness. Management tools and not additional monetary support will be needed to bring about at the field level such convergence and synergy among ongoing programmes. * Information, education and communication: * * * There is need for launching a Nutritional Literacy movement to spread an awareness of the adverse consequences of malnutrition induced intellectual and physical dwarfism among children. The Nutritional Literacy movement should include issues relating to food safety, *codex alimentarius *standards, sanitary and phytosanitary measures, etc. The mass media, particularly those in the public sector like Doordarshan and All India Radio can play a very important role in making the Hunger-free India movement a success. Community Radio stations, giving location-specific information, should be encouraged to assist other mass media in spreading messages of hope. It will be useful to set up *M**edia Resource Centres for a Hunger-free India*. Such centres can provide credible and timely information to the print, audio, video and new (i.e. internet) media. *Household Entitlement card: * * * It will be useful to provide every family with an *E**ntitlement Card*, giving information on the various government projects which they can access. The information may be disaggregated by gender, age, religion, caste and class, and precise addresses of contact persons and offices may be given. Such information will enable everyone to make the best use of their entitlements. A single step of this kind will help enormously to ensure the effective utilisation of all the schemes of central and State governments and bilateral and multilateral donors. *Asset Building and Community Development: * * * The poor are poor because they have no assets like land, livestock or a fish pond. They often are illiterate and lack proper dwelling units. They survive on wage employment, which, particularly in the case of women, does not reach the level of even the prescribed minimum wage. A massive effort is needed to help them to shift from unskilled to skilled work through training in market-driven skills. The on-going micro-finance led self-help revolution will be the fastest way to help them to rise above the poverty level. This will call for establishing effective forward and backward linkages, particularly with technology sources and markets. Insurance and Venture Capital support should also be available to micro-enterprises. We have now an opportunity to leapfrog in achieving our goal of enabling every one to earn his/her daily bread. *Capacity Building: * * * Since a decentralised approach involving the empowerment of over three million women and men members of local bodies holds the key to the success of this national movement for food and clean drinking water for all, it is essential that a national consortium of Agricultural, Rural and Womens' Universities as well as government and non-governmental training and research institutions is formed for undertaking capacity building in areas such as management, communication and organisational skills with reference to the implementation of the hunger-free area programme. The capacity building programmes can be organised on a *T**rainers' Training model*, in order to achieve a multiplier effect. *Initiation of a National Food for Social Capital Programme: * * *The social capital of a country is the product of interaction between the human capital and the cultural, political, economic, nutritional and natural environments. Human and social capitals constitute the most precious wealth of a nation. Mahatma Gandhi and Vinobha Bhave advocated the principles of * antyodaya* and *sarvodaya* for achieving high social synergy and capital. A society committed to building its social capital will try to promote programmes which represent a "win-win" situation for all, thereby avoiding winners and losers and the consequent social conflict and disruption. During the last few years, the Government of India as well as some State Governments have initiated many programmes like *"Sampoorn Gramin Rozgar Yojana", "Annapoorna", "Antyodaya Anna Yojana", "Universal Noon-meal Programme for School Children",* etc. It is now clear that our farmers will produce more if we can enhance consumption and thereby opportunities for assured and remunerative marketing. Therefore, the initiation of a National Food Guarantee Scheme will help to ensure that all who are hungry today due to a lack of livelihood opportunities or other constraints are able to have food for a productive life. Such a National Food Guarantee Scheme can serve as an umbrella for all ongoing projects like those mentioned earlier. In addition, it can provide food grains for initiating a *Nagarpalika Rozgar Yojana *as well as for a wide variety of social support initiatives like Food for Health (TB, HIV/AIDS, malaria etc.,), Food for those employed in ICDS, nutritious noon meal and other similar projects. *In other words, food can become a powerful currency for achieving the goal of a hunger-free India.* Using food as a currency has twin advantages, namely, there could be greater off-take of food grains from farmers, thereby providing them with an incentive to produce more, and secondly for meeting the immediate needs of the poor, destitutes, migrant labour and all who are under nourished today. The Urban Food Insecurity Atlas released by the President in October 2002 clearly brings out the urgent need for attending to the hunger problems of the bottom 10 per cent of the poor (ultra-poor) in towns and cities. *Therefore, the setting up of an umbrella programme combining the principles of the Employment Guarantee Scheme of Maharashtra and of various Food for Work Programmes under a National Food for Social Capital Programme will be timely.* This could serve as the hub of a series of activities. It can start with a total allocation of 15 to 20 million tonnes of food grains during 2003-04. Such a block grant of food grains can be managed by a *M**alnutrition-free India Trust*, headed by the deputy chairman of the Planning Commission. The trust can sanction small projects to meet specific local requirements as well as to fill gaps in the ongoing programmes. At least five million tonnes of grain should be available to support local level Community Food Banks in "hunger and hydrologic hot spot" areas and specific programmes designed to improve maternal and foetal nutrition as well as to provide nutrition support to those affected by TB, leprosy and other diseases. Such a Food Guarantee Initiative will be psychologically an important index of the capability of farmers to produce more on the one hand, and the political commitment to achieve the Prime Minister's goal of a hunger-free India by August 15, 2007, on the other. *Monitoring and Evaluation:* This could be done at various levels starting with Gram Sabha and citizens groups (like the Right to Food Group) government agencies and research institutions. An effective and transparent monitoring system will also help to ensure the implementation of the directives of the Supreme Court. *Consultative Group for Freedom from Hunger: * * * * The elimination of hunger is the first requisite for alieviating poverty. * * * * *Both at the national and State levels, multi-stakeholder Consultative groups for "Agenda 2007: Hunger-free India" could be organised comprising representatives of the ministries and departments concerned, professional experts, the National Commission for Women, civil society organisations, business and industry, the mass media and bilateral and multilateral donors, with the Planning Commission serving as a nodal agency for such a consultative group. Such a CGFFH would help to foster strategic partnerships as well as synergy among political leaders, professionals and peoples' organisations. *Standing Committee of the National Development Council (NDC): * * *A standing committee of the NDC could be set up for monitoring progress and ensuring the success of Agenda 2007. The NDC Committee, chaired by the Prime Minister, could include chief ministers where there is widespread under-and mal-nutrition as well as of food secure states, so that there could be lateral sharing of experiences among States. Such a standing committee could provide the political guidance and support needed for implementing this important programme. *Immediate action during 2003-2004: * * *Besides the announcement of the 20 million tonnes Food for Social Capital Programme and the setting up of a Malnutrition-free India Trust, immediate action needs to be taken to end poverty induced chronic hunger and the transient hunger caused by drought and natural calamities through a series of Community Food, Fodder and Feed Banks. Such banks may be established in all the "hunger hot spots" of the country. CFBs managed by local self-help groups, preferably of women, would save considerable transaction and transport costs. They will also help to widen the food security basket through inclusion of local grains like millets, pulses, oilseeds and tubers. It will also be advisable to reclassify coarse cereals as "nutritious grains" in order to underline their desirable nutritive properties. *No time to relax on the Food Production Front.* While the alleviation of hunger by improving access to income and balanced diets and safe drinking water should receive high priority, there is no time to relax on the food production front. We need to bring about productivity, quality (including food safety), profitability and sustainability revolutions in farming based on a Farming Systems Approach. There is an urgent need for enhancement of investment in agriculture and rural infrastructure development. There is also need for conferring on small producers the power of scale through cooperatives, self-help groups and other socially viable methods of group endeavour both at the production and post-harvest phases of farming. Our spectatular progress in the dairy sector is largely though such management innovations. There is need for a movement for trade and quality literacy including an understanding of sanitary and phytosanitary measures and *codex alimentarius *standards. There is also need for launching a *Jal Swaraj *and Water Literacy Movement. Above all, there is need for a paradigm shift from jobless to job-led growth in order to ensure that every poor person is enabled to *earn* his or her daily bread. Unless our agricultural competitiveness improves, our earnings from the farm sector in international markets will not grow significantly. In a predominantly rural and agricultural country like India, agricultural progress (i.e. crop and animal husbandry, fisheries, forestry and agro-forestry and agro-processing) is the most effective social safety net against hunger and poverty. Hence, the ongoing fatigue of the green revolution in wheat, rice and other major crops should be converted into an ever-green revolution designed to promote productivity improvement in perpetuity without associated ecological harm. A beginning has been made in the Union Budget for 2003-04 to focus attention on precision farming, economic use of water and nutrients through fertigation techniques and green house horticulture. Such a focus on improving factor productivity in agriculture should be further enlarged to cover all the major agro-ecosystems. Agricultural and rural development, if given adequate and appropriate attention, will help the country to take to the path of job-led economic growth. Our substantial grain and foreign exchange reserves and the three million women and men elected members of local bodies have provided us with an uncommon opportunity for launching a frontal attack on hunger and poverty. *It will be a tragedy if we don't act, when we are in a position to act.* To conclude, the "Agenda 2007: Hunger Free Area Programme" should keep in mind the following advice of Gandhiji given before his death. "Forget the past. Remember every day dawns for us from the moment we wake up. Let us all, every one, wake up now". *The writer is the chairman of the M.S. Swaminathan Research Foundation. He has worked for the past 45 years with scientists and policy makers on a range of problems in basic and applied plant genetics as well as in agricultural research and development. * * * * * Printer friendly page Send this article to Friends by E-Mail Magazine Features: Magazine | Literary Review | Life| Metro Plus | Open Page| Education | Book Review| Business | SciTech| Entertainment | Young World | Quest| Folio | Select Articles - Count down from 2007 - Re-crowning the Queen of Hills - Mahatma for sale - Art for the power hungry Archives - Datewise - Issues - Cuisine - Travel - Gardening News News Update Front Page National Regional: • Southern States • Other States International Opinion Business Sport Miscellaneous Index ------------------------------ The Hindu Group: Home | About Us| Copyright | Archives| Contacts | Subscription Group Sites: The Hindu | Business Line| The Sportstar | Frontline| The Hindu eBooks | Home| Comments to : thehindu at vsnl.com Copyright © 2003, The Hindu Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of The Hindu ------------------------------ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 18:41:46 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:41:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 10 Message-ID: Online edition of India's National Newspaper Sunday, Aug 22, 2004 Group Publications Business Line The Sportstar Frontline The Hindu About Us Contact Us *Magazine* Published on Sundays Features: Magazine | Literary Review | Life| Metro Plus | Open Page| Education Plus | Book Review| Business | SciTech| Entertainment | Young World| Property Plus | Quest| Folio | Magazine [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] * `Child development has been neglected' * You could spot him slogan-shouting in a rally with as much passion as writing a research paper on hunger. A pillar and a moving force behind the Right to Food Campaign, it would be no exaggeration to say that JEAN DRÈZE leads his entire life and work, thoughts and action towards realising an undiluted dream of a hunger free India. He speaks to SOWMYA KERBART SIVAKUMAR on crucial issues in child development today and the need to ensure universalisation of the Integrated Child Development Services (ICDS) scheme of the government. M. LAKSHMAN * Jean Dreze * A*CCORDING to the latest Human Development Report, India shares the highest rate of child undernutrition along with Bangladesh and Nepal. How did we achieve this unenviable record? * * *Mass poverty is obviously a major part of the answer. But that's not the end of the story, otherwise we would find similar rates of child undernutrition in, say, Tamil Nadu and Uttar Pradesh, where poverty levels are quite similar. In fact, child undernutrition rates are about twice as high in Uttar Pradesh, for reasons that are not exactly mysterious: education levels there are abysmal, public health services are virtually non-existent, women have no voice in the family and society, and so on. If child undernutrition is to be abolished, far-reaching intervention is required on all these fronts, as has happened to some extent in Tamil Nadu, and of course in Kerala. *What role do you see for the government in protecting children from undernutrition? * * *In India as elsewhere, the well-being of children depends crucially on public intervention. Of course, in many respects the parents are best placed to look after their children. But the rights of children, including their right to nutrition and health, cannot be entrusted to the family alone. Indeed, it is an interesting paradox of Indian society that children are deeply loved, yet they are also terribly neglected. If we are serious about children's rights, then every child has to be under the supervision and care of public institutions such as *anganwadis *and primary schools. Going beyond this, public intervention is also required to address the deeper roots of child undernutrition, from mass poverty to gender inequality. *How have different governments over the years viewed child development and what have been their responses on the ground? * * *Child development has been grossly neglected in public policy. One reason for this is that children have no voice in the political system. In fact, children from disadvantaged families are twice removed from the democratic process: not only are their interests represented by others, such as their parents, but the parents themselves are often unable to participate in democratic institutions. It is because of this lack of voice that, say, *anganwadis *can remain non-functional for months at a time in particular states without anyone taking much notice of the problem. The absence of any serious political commitment to children's rights is another reflection of this lack of voice. *The ICDS is supposed to address children's needs in a holistic manner. How is the programme doing on the ground? * * *I have been associated with a recent a survey of ICDS in six States. The contrasts are really startling. In Uttar Pradesh, for instance, *anganwadis *are closed most of the time, when they exist at all. Even when they are open, children rarely get any food, not to speak of other essential services such as vaccination or pre-school education. In Tamil Nadu, by contrast, most children are enrolled in the local *anganwadi *centre, nutritious food is available there every day of the year, and more than 90 per cent of children are fully vaccinated. These contrasts are all the more interesting as ICDS is a centrally sponsored scheme, based on similar guidelines throughout the country. There is an important message here about the overwhelming influence of the social and political context in shaping the outcome of particular policies. *The Supreme Court has issued strong orders calling for the universalisation of ICDS. What are the fiscal implications of doing this, and as an economist, do you think it is feasible? * * *There are about 14 crore children below the age of six in India. Suppose the government were to spend Rs. 5 per child per day on ICDS throughout the year. This is not a magic figure, but five rupees per day could make a dramatic difference to the health and well-being of the average Indian child. The total cost would be Rs. 25,000 crores, approximately one per cent of GDP. This may sound like a large amount, but it's a trivial price to pay to liberate Indian children from the present morass of hunger and ill health. One does not need a PhD in economics to see that this is not only feasible but also imperative. *Do you really expect the government to commit one per cent of GDP to child development, in the present climate of fiscal conservatism? * * *I do not expect this to happen on its own, but I believe that it can happen with adequate public pressure. Aside from its importance for children, the universalisation of ICDS has tremendous political significance. It is a crucial test of the ability of Indian democracy to resist the dismantling of social services and initiate a visionary programme of public support for children. If this happens, India could become an inspiring example for the world, instead of being known as a land of starving babies. * * Printer friendly page Send this article to Friends by E-Mail Magazine Features: Magazine | Literary Review | Life| Metro Plus | Open Page| Education Plus | Book Review| Business | SciTech| Entertainment | Young World| Property Plus | Quest| Folio | The Hindu National Essay Contest Results Archives - Datewise - Issues - Cuisine - Travel - Gardening News News Update Front Page National States: • Tamil Nadu • Andhra Pradesh • Karnataka • Kerala • New Delhi • Other States International Opinion Business Sport Miscellaneous Index ------------------------------ The Hindu Group: Home | About Us| Copyright | Archives| Contacts | Subscription Group Sites: The Hindu | Business Line| The Sportstar | Frontline| The Hindu eBooks | Home| Comments to : thehindu at vsnl.com Copyright © 2004, The Hindu Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of The Hindu ------------------------------ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 18:43:43 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:43:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 10 Message-ID: Online edition of India's National Newspaper Wednesday, Oct 17, 2007 ePaper [image: Google] ------------------------------ ------------------------------ *Andhra Pradesh* News: ePaper | Front Page| National | Tamil Nadu| Andhra Pradesh | Karnataka| Kerala | New Delhi| Other States | International| Opinion | Business| Sport | Miscellaneous| Engagements | Advts: Retail Plus | Classifieds| Jobs | Obituary| [image: ICICI Bank] Andhra Pradesh - Visakhapatnam [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] * Hunger is a constraint to progress: dietician * Special Correspondent * ‘6 m cildren die of malnutrition every year’ * VISAKHAPATNAM: Food is a basic human right, yet around 850 million human beings on the earth remain chronically hungry and 799 million of them are in the developing countries. Speaking on the occasion of World Food Day on Tuesday, consultant dietician and chairperson of Diabetes Foundation Anuradha Reddy said this year, the theme of World Food Day is “The Right To Food”. “This theme brings a message that it is the inherent human right of every woman, man and child where ever they live on this planet. The right to food is the right of every person to have regular access to sufficient nutritionally adequate and culturally acceptable food,” she observed. Disparities Starvation is the severest type of poverty in the world. Everyday about 24,000 people die from hunger and three-fourth of them are children under age of five. Hunger and malnutrition are caused not just by lack of available food, but also by poverty, income disparities, lack of access to health care, education, clean water and sanitary living conditions. Food is essential to human life, yet a great human tragedy continues to afflict our world. Hunger is a major constraint on human development. It is a violation of the right to food. One in five people in developing countries do not have access to food of sufficient quality. Worldwide six million pre-school children died every year as a result of hunger, she stated. “Over a third of world’s malnourished children live in India. The malnutrition among Indian children is 53 per cent according to National family health survey. Malnutrition is a tangle of two mutually reinforcing factors - insufficient nutrient intake and illness. Its root cause therefore, is poverty at the household, community and national levels which results in lack of access to such basic necessities as food. A second reason is an insidious combination of simple ignorance and prejudice against women. In a nutshell, malnutrition constitutes a global “silent emergency” killing millions every year,” she said. * * Printer friendly page Send this article to Friends by E-Mail ------------------------------ [image: Click here to find out more!] [image: Click Here] ------------------------------ Andhra Pradesh News: ePaper | Front Page| National | Tamil Nadu| Andhra Pradesh | Karnataka| Kerala | New Delhi| Other States | International| Opinion | Business| Sport | Miscellaneous| Engagements | Advts: Retail Plus | Classifieds| Jobs | Obituary| Updates: Breaking News | *News Update* Stories in this Section - Hunger is a constraint to progress: dietician - Air Deccan’s new cancellation policy - Camera cell phones banned in AU hostel - Riding against the tide - Evangelist accuses brother of grabbing properties - Traffic police stations for Anakapalle, Elamanchili - Minister ridicules Yeruvaaka of TDP - RTC to operate additional services - Elephant ‘Shanti’ dies - Divi’s gesture helps him pursue engineering - Stolen gold recovered - Row over vial sale - MLAs write to Railway Minister - Autos throw traffic out of gear - Control drug prices, say medical representatives - BJKM seeks support price for paddy - TSR happy with Nigeria’s response - Visakhapatnam today Archives Yesterday's Issue Datewise Features: Magazine Literary Review Metro Plus Open Page Education Plus Book Review Business SciTech Friday Review Cinema Plus Young World Property Plus Quest ------------------------------ Get your online password now ------------------------------ The Hindu Group: Home | About Us| Copyright | Archives| Contacts | Subscription Group Sites: The Hindu | The Hindu ePaper| Business Line | Business Line ePaper| Sportstar | Frontline| Publications | eBooks| Images | Home | Copyright © 2007, The Hindu. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of The Hindu ------------------------------ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 18:51:21 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:51:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Water and Public Policy Message-ID: 'Water shortage is a very, very serious situation' Water shortage is a very, very serious situation' It has been argued that the next world war will be fought not over oil, but over water. In India, water riots have broken out in Madhya Pradesh this year and people have lost lives fighting over water in both MP and Rajasthan. Every time the Cauvery issue flares up between Tamil Nadu and Karnataka, property worth billions of rupees has been destroyed in both states. Inter-state buses and lorries are blocked causing more hardship to the people and further loss to trade and the exchequer. Water is divided among seven ministries at the Centre and thus no one really gives it the importance it deserves, bemoans *Ashok Jaitly*, a retired IAS officer of the Jammu & Kashmir cadre and the state's former chief secretary. An authority on the complex intricacies of Kashmir and a noted observer on Pakistan, he now brings his skills to the much ignored issue of water shortage in the country. With a Master's in economics and a diploma in development studies from Cambridge University, Jaitly has over 40 years experience at senior management levels in various central and state government departments. He is currently the director of water resources at The Energy Resources Institute in New Delhi, whose director general is climate change guru Dr Rajendra Kumar Pachauri. He spoke to rediff.com's *A Ganesh Nadar* about the severe water crisis in the country and the chalta hai attitude of both the government and the people. *How serious is the water situation in the country?* I do not want to sound like an alarmist, but it is very bad. Whether you look at it from the irrigation side, the drinking water side, the waste-water management side, we are facing shortage in critical areas and there is tremendous amount of inefficiency in its management. I don't want to exaggerate, but it is a very, very serious situation. *How serious will it get?* It is already very serious. It will get worse if we continue to behave like it is business as usual. At all levels at the central, state official level and the people's level, we are not treating it as seriously as we should. We should manage our water resources much more carefully. Not wasting water, paying for water. Issues people are not willing to face candidly, frankly and seriously. It is going to become much more serious. *What is the solution?* There are a number of solutions, it's not as if there are no solutions. I will not be giving any new solution. Everyone knows the solutions. A water policy was enunciated in 2002. How much of it is being implemented? In irrigation 40 to 50 per cent of the water is being wasted. We have to reduce that. It is both technical wastage and managerial wastage. We don't have the money to repair irrigation channels. When you over exploit ground water somebody else will be affected. Even in urban water supply there is so much wastage. Take, for example, Delhi. The water board admits that they lose 40 to 60 per cent of the water. Obviously better management, better regulation, is needed. The frameworks have to be looked at. The economics have to be looked at. You cannot have a pricing where you cannot recover operational and maintenance costs. People are not willing to pay, farmers are not willing to pay. We have governments saying, 'We will give free electricity for ground water extraction.' With the result you are encouraging wastage of water. It's the same with urban areas. The poor people pay more for water than the rich. The rich get greater supply from the main lines and pay lower tariff. And the poor have to supplement their water needs with tankers or somewhere else and thus end up paying more. 'Many senior politicians don't want to go to the ministry of water resources' *Governments have spoken about the linking of rivers as a possible solution to the country's water problems. Do you think it is viable? Can it be implemented?* It is still on the planning board. It is very difficult to say if it is viable or not. In principle you can say we should transfer water from a surplus region to another. It is too costly, the technology is complicated and the environmental damage is still not known. There is a natural flow of water and you are interfering with that flow. To change that flow you will have to go through mountains and hills and so on. Is the environmental cost valid? We have to do a much deeper analysis of it from every aspect on how people are going to be impacted. Similarly the element, which is unknown today, is the climate change aspect. We have glaciers melting and the Ganga and the Brahmaputra will be affected with lower flows. Then there will be no surplus water to transfer. There may be an urgency in the need, but decisions cannot be taken in a hurry. This decision might prove very costly for future generations if we make the wrong decision. And it will be very difficult to reverse. *Why does the government treat water so shabbily?* Parliamentary Affairs Minister Pawan Kumar Bansal is also the water minister. I don't think many senior politicians want to go to the ministry of water resources. It doesn't have a large budget and the other aspect is that the minister deals with a very small part of water. Only irrigation. Urban drinking water is with the urban development ministry. Rural drinking water is with rural development. Hydel generation is with the ministry of power. Low hydel power is with the ministry of renewable energy. Watershed development is with the ministry of environment and forests. Minor irrigation is with the agriculture ministry. I have been arguing that the government should rationalise this and put all water management under one ministry. Make it the focal ministry and give it to a very senior minister and give it the importance that is its due. *Water riots have occurred in Bhopal. People have been killed over water. Tamil Nadu and Karnataka, Tamil Nadu and Kerala, Karnataka and Andhra are a few of the states that fight over water. When and how will this end? * Water riots also occurred in Rajasthan on the Indira Gandhi canal 5, 7 years ago in Ganganagar. Seven people died in 2002 if I am not wrong about the year. Tamil Nadu and Karnataka have been fighting over the Cauvery water for how long? It is potentially ridden with conflicts. Big farmer versus small farmer, urban versus rural. Agriculture and industry are all competing. We have to bring people together and have dialogues. Water is a state subject and the Centre doesn't have control over water. I am not recommending central control. We must find a mechanism that enables the Centre to make agreements between states. The long drawn out court cases, tribunals do not help. There are inter state councils, there is a national council. These bodies must come together on a matter as important as water. There must be a national consensus. It is time there was strong public pressure to push the political leadership to come to a consensus. In Tamil Nadu and Karnataka, they got the farmers together and it worked for a while. That has to be continued and for the media to put pressure on the government, it should create public opinion, create awareness. *What about private bottling plants in water starved states?* We did an independent study of all the plants of Coca-Cola. Out of four, three had no problems. The one in Rajasthan there was some problems and we suggested remedial methods. But if we study any industry which uses water you will know that the water usage is less. Eighty five per cent of water is used for irrigation. Even in industry the beverage industry is very small. The big consumer in industry is thermal plants. Thermal plants account for 70 to 80 per cent of the water usage by industry. They use it for cooling. They are conscious of it. They recycle the used water. Now there is a new technology of dry cooling. There are coolants. 1,700 crores have been spent on cleaning the Ganga, 1,000 on the Yamuna' *The government has privatised power distribution. How far are we from privatising water distribution?* Very, very far because it is too sensitive an issue. And there is no proof anywhere in the world that privatisation of water makes the distribution or storage any better or more efficient. They have done it in Jamshedpur and it is working very well there. There is already privatisation. Chennai gets 60 per cent of its water from tankers. The state government has taken these tankers on lease and pays them. So Chennai has brought them under control. Chennai also has a 100 million litres per day desalination plant coming up. They have done a good job with water harvesting. Gujarat is putting up a big plant. The cost of desalination is also high. Other cities will also have to go for it. There is no option. Irrigation is private and large farmers are selling water to small farmers. We do not want privatisation as a matter of policy and ideology, but it is happening all around. We have to think of the best way to manage it. We have to face reality, brushing it under the carpet is not going to help. *What about pollution of water bodies?* The pollution board can haul up any industry. The minute they issue a notice the fellow goes to court and gets a stay. *Inspite of billions of rupees going down the river in the name of cleaning, the Ganga and Yamuna are still dirty?* Rs 1,700 crores (Rs 17 billion) on the Ganga alone and Rs 1,000 crores (Res 10 billion) on the Yamuna. Both rivers have become worse. Obviously, money is not a problem. But it is a managerial one. Now they have action plan 2 for Yamuna. Plan 2 won't work too. The treatment has to be integrated. Not piecemeal. The whole river has to be cleaned together and further pollution has to be prevented. *How do you maintain the quality of drinking water?* It is a serious problem. A large percentage of infant mortality is due to water borne diseases. We need a massive campaign to teach people how to clean water in a low cost method. Like sand filters, charcoal filter. It has to be at the panchayat level. The charcoal will remove many minerals, but you cannot expect it to remove fluoride or arsenic. For that you need proper treatment. But this basic cleaning will go a long way in improving health standards. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 18:51:21 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:51:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Water and Public Policy Message-ID: 'Water shortage is a very, very serious situation' Water shortage is a very, very serious situation' It has been argued that the next world war will be fought not over oil, but over water. In India, water riots have broken out in Madhya Pradesh this year and people have lost lives fighting over water in both MP and Rajasthan. Every time the Cauvery issue flares up between Tamil Nadu and Karnataka, property worth billions of rupees has been destroyed in both states. Inter-state buses and lorries are blocked causing more hardship to the people and further loss to trade and the exchequer. Water is divided among seven ministries at the Centre and thus no one really gives it the importance it deserves, bemoans *Ashok Jaitly*, a retired IAS officer of the Jammu & Kashmir cadre and the state's former chief secretary. An authority on the complex intricacies of Kashmir and a noted observer on Pakistan, he now brings his skills to the much ignored issue of water shortage in the country. With a Master's in economics and a diploma in development studies from Cambridge University, Jaitly has over 40 years experience at senior management levels in various central and state government departments. He is currently the director of water resources at The Energy Resources Institute in New Delhi, whose director general is climate change guru Dr Rajendra Kumar Pachauri. He spoke to rediff.com's *A Ganesh Nadar* about the severe water crisis in the country and the chalta hai attitude of both the government and the people. *How serious is the water situation in the country?* I do not want to sound like an alarmist, but it is very bad. Whether you look at it from the irrigation side, the drinking water side, the waste-water management side, we are facing shortage in critical areas and there is tremendous amount of inefficiency in its management. I don't want to exaggerate, but it is a very, very serious situation. *How serious will it get?* It is already very serious. It will get worse if we continue to behave like it is business as usual. At all levels at the central, state official level and the people's level, we are not treating it as seriously as we should. We should manage our water resources much more carefully. Not wasting water, paying for water. Issues people are not willing to face candidly, frankly and seriously. It is going to become much more serious. *What is the solution?* There are a number of solutions, it's not as if there are no solutions. I will not be giving any new solution. Everyone knows the solutions. A water policy was enunciated in 2002. How much of it is being implemented? In irrigation 40 to 50 per cent of the water is being wasted. We have to reduce that. It is both technical wastage and managerial wastage. We don't have the money to repair irrigation channels. When you over exploit ground water somebody else will be affected. Even in urban water supply there is so much wastage. Take, for example, Delhi. The water board admits that they lose 40 to 60 per cent of the water. Obviously better management, better regulation, is needed. The frameworks have to be looked at. The economics have to be looked at. You cannot have a pricing where you cannot recover operational and maintenance costs. People are not willing to pay, farmers are not willing to pay. We have governments saying, 'We will give free electricity for ground water extraction.' With the result you are encouraging wastage of water. It's the same with urban areas. The poor people pay more for water than the rich. The rich get greater supply from the main lines and pay lower tariff. And the poor have to supplement their water needs with tankers or somewhere else and thus end up paying more. 'Many senior politicians don't want to go to the ministry of water resources' *Governments have spoken about the linking of rivers as a possible solution to the country's water problems. Do you think it is viable? Can it be implemented?* It is still on the planning board. It is very difficult to say if it is viable or not. In principle you can say we should transfer water from a surplus region to another. It is too costly, the technology is complicated and the environmental damage is still not known. There is a natural flow of water and you are interfering with that flow. To change that flow you will have to go through mountains and hills and so on. Is the environmental cost valid? We have to do a much deeper analysis of it from every aspect on how people are going to be impacted. Similarly the element, which is unknown today, is the climate change aspect. We have glaciers melting and the Ganga and the Brahmaputra will be affected with lower flows. Then there will be no surplus water to transfer. There may be an urgency in the need, but decisions cannot be taken in a hurry. This decision might prove very costly for future generations if we make the wrong decision. And it will be very difficult to reverse. *Why does the government treat water so shabbily?* Parliamentary Affairs Minister Pawan Kumar Bansal is also the water minister. I don't think many senior politicians want to go to the ministry of water resources. It doesn't have a large budget and the other aspect is that the minister deals with a very small part of water. Only irrigation. Urban drinking water is with the urban development ministry. Rural drinking water is with rural development. Hydel generation is with the ministry of power. Low hydel power is with the ministry of renewable energy. Watershed development is with the ministry of environment and forests. Minor irrigation is with the agriculture ministry. I have been arguing that the government should rationalise this and put all water management under one ministry. Make it the focal ministry and give it to a very senior minister and give it the importance that is its due. *Water riots have occurred in Bhopal. People have been killed over water. Tamil Nadu and Karnataka, Tamil Nadu and Kerala, Karnataka and Andhra are a few of the states that fight over water. When and how will this end? * Water riots also occurred in Rajasthan on the Indira Gandhi canal 5, 7 years ago in Ganganagar. Seven people died in 2002 if I am not wrong about the year. Tamil Nadu and Karnataka have been fighting over the Cauvery water for how long? It is potentially ridden with conflicts. Big farmer versus small farmer, urban versus rural. Agriculture and industry are all competing. We have to bring people together and have dialogues. Water is a state subject and the Centre doesn't have control over water. I am not recommending central control. We must find a mechanism that enables the Centre to make agreements between states. The long drawn out court cases, tribunals do not help. There are inter state councils, there is a national council. These bodies must come together on a matter as important as water. There must be a national consensus. It is time there was strong public pressure to push the political leadership to come to a consensus. In Tamil Nadu and Karnataka, they got the farmers together and it worked for a while. That has to be continued and for the media to put pressure on the government, it should create public opinion, create awareness. *What about private bottling plants in water starved states?* We did an independent study of all the plants of Coca-Cola. Out of four, three had no problems. The one in Rajasthan there was some problems and we suggested remedial methods. But if we study any industry which uses water you will know that the water usage is less. Eighty five per cent of water is used for irrigation. Even in industry the beverage industry is very small. The big consumer in industry is thermal plants. Thermal plants account for 70 to 80 per cent of the water usage by industry. They use it for cooling. They are conscious of it. They recycle the used water. Now there is a new technology of dry cooling. There are coolants. 1,700 crores have been spent on cleaning the Ganga, 1,000 on the Yamuna' *The government has privatised power distribution. How far are we from privatising water distribution?* Very, very far because it is too sensitive an issue. And there is no proof anywhere in the world that privatisation of water makes the distribution or storage any better or more efficient. They have done it in Jamshedpur and it is working very well there. There is already privatisation. Chennai gets 60 per cent of its water from tankers. The state government has taken these tankers on lease and pays them. So Chennai has brought them under control. Chennai also has a 100 million litres per day desalination plant coming up. They have done a good job with water harvesting. Gujarat is putting up a big plant. The cost of desalination is also high. Other cities will also have to go for it. There is no option. Irrigation is private and large farmers are selling water to small farmers. We do not want privatisation as a matter of policy and ideology, but it is happening all around. We have to think of the best way to manage it. We have to face reality, brushing it under the carpet is not going to help. *What about pollution of water bodies?* The pollution board can haul up any industry. The minute they issue a notice the fellow goes to court and gets a stay. *Inspite of billions of rupees going down the river in the name of cleaning, the Ganga and Yamuna are still dirty?* Rs 1,700 crores (Rs 17 billion) on the Ganga alone and Rs 1,000 crores (Res 10 billion) on the Yamuna. Both rivers have become worse. Obviously, money is not a problem. But it is a managerial one. Now they have action plan 2 for Yamuna. Plan 2 won't work too. The treatment has to be integrated. Not piecemeal. The whole river has to be cleaned together and further pollution has to be prevented. *How do you maintain the quality of drinking water?* It is a serious problem. A large percentage of infant mortality is due to water borne diseases. We need a massive campaign to teach people how to clean water in a low cost method. Like sand filters, charcoal filter. It has to be at the panchayat level. The charcoal will remove many minerals, but you cannot expect it to remove fluoride or arsenic. For that you need proper treatment. But this basic cleaning will go a long way in improving health standards. From javedmasoo at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 19:07:07 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 19:07:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908100331n1c28c00ehd849fbf88e866741@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560908100251m61055704t1d54be26379d0bd8@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908100331n1c28c00ehd849fbf88e866741@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Rajen You say that "RSS does not hate Muslims or Christians", but you seem to be ignoring all the hate-propaganda literature that is produced by RSS and its allies, and the fact that RSS shakhas in small towns brainwash little children against Muslims. Have you seen these 2 documentary films called "Boys in the Branch" and "Men in the Trees" (directed by Lalit Vachani) that explore exactly how the RSS infiltrates the minds of youngsters. Do watch them if you can. Working for the nation is fine, but at whose cost? J On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi wrote: > Rakesh jee, >   you have your intellect to analyse and judge, you are free citizen of > India, but your sweeping judgement of RSS is absolutely wrong, and you are > entitled to your views, but alteast have the patience to see the working of > RSS before you start quoting from the articles of regular baiters like > Ashish Nandy and the tribe of pseudo -seculars, let me re-assert, RSS does > not hate muslims or christians, RSS men and women are volantary men and > women who work for the nation , that too with the hope that the wall in the > partition of 1947 will be brought down, all live with harmony and peace > irrespective of their faith, no faith followers dominating the "majority" or > "minority" on the basis of faith, converting from faiths to garner votes > with vote banks. > Muslims demanded partition and got it, but worked and struggled with all > against slavery and  the British rule, but the land mass was not loot after > robbery to be distributed after freedom. Only 23 percent went to the > partitioned land, rest assured the leaders and the nation that they will be > living harmoniously with their hindu brothers, but we have seen the deviant > in them, and the silent majority of muslims tolerating such deviants with > NGOs. > As to the deviants of the lot, they are emboldened by the fact that they > though, in very small quantum, numerically, have supporters in so > called pseudo seculars who have love of freedom to fight for any faith as > legal., but not hindu, because then it is communal, not secular.! > Regards, > Rajen. > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: >> >> Dear Rajen jee >> >> While it certainly is a questionable practice not to declassify the >> documents of intelligence of about more than 30 years ago, you seem to make >> a complete mockery of the investigations in the Malegaon case, as if Hindus >> can not be party to any terror blasts within the country, more so those who >> believe in the 'Hindutva' ideology. >> >> This is a wrong value-based position and I strongly disagree with it. One >> must not forget that the Sangh Parivar is such is based on the ideological >> position of disregarding the rights of the minorities to a life of dignity, >> and this is certainly a shame when compared with the ideals on which the >> Indian Constitution was and is still based. (Unless of course you believe >> that the Constitution itself is a shame to begin with). >> >> Any matter must be thoroughly investigated and only after proper >> investigations should we derive conclusions from it. Whether it be Malegaon >> or Mumbai blasts, this should be the way to go. Also, if matters relating to >> the case are present in the public domain, they should be presented to the >> public from the point of view of both sides (the accuser and the accused). >> And specifically, if people have doubts regarding the direction or certain >> matters within the case, these can and should be raised in the media and >> elsewhere for public discussion. >> >> The shameful part is that in India, when someone is claimed to be a >> terrorist, he/she is taken to be one irrespective of whether the final >> investigations indeed state the same or not. The basic notion of 'innocent >> until proven guilty' is reversed to be stated as 'guilty even if termed >> innocent by courts' in such cases. Whether it be Geelani or Sadhvi Pragya >> Thakur, that has happened. I have not seen the concerned articles as >> mentioned by Mr. Puniyani, but I believe that unless one has evidence to >> prove the judgement as wrong, or valid questions regarding the basis on >> which the judgement was made, one should not make atrocious allegations of >> this kind. >> >> Therefore, on the same grounds as I feel that Puniyani jee's side may be >> wrong, I equally feel that your side can also be wrong. >> >> Regards >> >> Rakesh >> >> >> >> > > > > -- > Rajen. > > From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Mon Aug 10 19:14:32 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 06:44:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Thanks: on Delhi In-Reply-To: <595273.62365.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <595273.62365.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <343686.72721.qm@web94709.mail.in2.yahoo.com> ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: subhrodip sengupta To: Kshmendra Kaul Sent: Monday, 10 August, 2009 7:13:58 PM Subject: Thanks: [Reader-list] on Delhi Dear Kshmendra, First, thanks for your kind words, tell U, r honestly motivating. If you may please elaborate what connotaions you had in mind, the traumatic experience that the society goes through , or that it exists in the culture in mind of everybody, which we violate everytime we Dehumanise women, while talking useless of their character, the same for men ( IN Hindi we Say 'Jo di Nahin Woh Randi Hain'), wherein yours would be a better version than mine which calls of scantifying culture by keeping scantity in one's own code of conduct, as behaviour towards other, not by restricting worse for others Sexual Habbits.(U know I got this term under the intense pressure one feels when one sees people do away with reasonings coz of temporal gains, when I critisised the dogmatic theory of Sperm based linearage, the act of ruing the community by simply inseminating and making a woman pregnant...... as if the Vagina would break the society, families of  rape victims feel likewise, herein I claim the Hymen exists elsewhere, in our piety and does not break becoz of forced insemination( The law of land believes only evidence of penetration constitutes rape and gives relief in absence of strong resistance, brritish courts even believe a woman can lure a man to rape her by showing a part of her body, Just because she is hot,just another kind of Feudal values......... Ur artistic touches me up. This was simply a side touch up. Unlike Chadni chowk where we have a less educated and crime prone people, in Gurgaon and Dwarka we have Sensitised and educated youth,....................... Still crime rates are higher here, which I attribute to lack of community feeling, which increases Voyeurism, though whenever a crime happens in full public view,and people choose simply to overlook it, it is not because of simply cost benefit analysis, it is beacuse the take part in the crime as silen specatators as if peeping through a key hole........ The worse the community tie up, the worse the extent of voyurism. Thus police patrols would not help unless Neighbourhood watch becomnes more responsible, not only towards people of their own neighbourhood. On delhi metro, in certain routes, I've seen the conditions are much better, just because the economic status these people share or may be of the cultural untiy they feel when on this public transport..... Regards, Subhrodip. ________________________________ From: Kshmendra Kaul To: Readers list Yousuf Sarai. ; subhrodip sengupta Sent: Monday, 10 August, 2009 3:03:16 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] on Delhi Dear Subhrodip Your words "the hymen exists elsewhere". Brilliant phrase. Have not seen it used. If it is your 'original' please patent it or ask for copyright. Since that might be difficult, at least an acknowledgement if someone else uses it. Allow me a variation "the hymen exists everywhere" Kshmendra   --- On Mon, 8/10/09, subhrodip sengupta wrote: >From: subhrodip sengupta >Subject: Re: [Reader-list] on Delhi >To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." >Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 1:57 AM > > >U know, I attended a seminaar by some reknowned Social Worker. Evry 3rd line was 'Aur Ma-beheno ke saath shosan hota hain!' (for present purposes,chicks not allowed!) Hilariously, most of the so called moms and sis left the discussion tired of the topic. True a hilarious note, but neither an insult, U know, I am poor and am sure the book'l take some time to reach the libraries, so hav no right to criticise; >nor an inabbriated a/c of a frustrated denpo(A person who thinks knows too much). Somehow amongst all crimes, only rape seems to be highlighted. However, leaving the mentality of MAle-dominated lineARAGE, I'd argue that though these have diraect physical and hormonal damage, as far as mental trauma is concerned many crimes are as bad.  I argue the hymen exists elsewhere... There are many good things about feminism, but this I feel is a another form of reductionism.  Thankfully there exists something which still arouses the society..................... > > >This was a hilarious start to some more grave issues, precisely 2 distinct one which I wish 2 take up, I ought have taken one of  them, concurrently 2 weeks ago, but precisely for long hours involved in editing, very conviniently shirked. >First on Gurgaon: >What I have learnt is in many pockets, Rickshaw pullers are called on their mobile phones,a truely novel thing........... >My experiences are quite vivid with a similar, may be not in terms of investment and culture, but in pattern of development, Dwarka, on which I'll try to jointly elaborate on this issue, involving the 'biker Gang' as well(they include not only sikhs or even jaats but Biharis and UP'ites as ell) >In every other convergence( classical ) model of 'development', we talk of convergence, adjustment of MPL/MPK( through various mechanisms, including learning in classical sense), a term which is dubious, for the latter is indeterminate,  promoted by free trade, What happens actually is quite different thing. Leaving out things like Wine, labour constitutes nearly 70% of a commodities cost. So, in development, in order to keep feed of properly skilled or highly skilled labour, at cheap rates, we need labour or mass labour to be cheaper........................ We can say thus two roads are created=== a high road, of people who can really afford the 22K+ flats in Gurgaon and the super-expensive sabzis et-al max cost extracted by the rentier clas and the Haftas, and outsiders, who have no stake in the place's culture. While Gurgaon even gets it's skilled feed from adjoining places like Dwarka, most of the workers in both places come from neighboiuring >villages on Haryana which have their own culture, law and governance. The result is both the defenders and offenders come from the same place and culture, while the beneficiary or the woman on the street is left moire vulnerarable. However I'd reject all stories of reporting a crime which I fell are consoling stories, and attribute to the records of increasing crime a simple tendency Voyeurism, looking through Key-hole, diversed from immidiate society in immadiate conomic relations, a man does not 'belong to' his surroundings, nor a woman! A dead body was taken from a pool in Dwarka, A row of appartments lay opposite to the site. A amn robbed of his car and stabbed. There he lay, who knows alive and yet no body reported. MAy be of fear of getting picked up. But why, not even later? >Another experience, quite distant explores deeper in. We have all seen stories of gals getting harrassed in hotels. Yet many of the good ones are strictly reluctant to keep a single woman sans indemnity from any influencial group. In villages they give shelter, in cities, devoid of clan and confidence, we turn essentially voyeuristic and sarcastic of everyone else, thus finding a friction of cultures here. In villages since a city dweller doesnt get mixed with them , except where he tries to snatch land from them, they are usually friendly............. >Incity,a race is on A dal is on betting for union, Boldly, rules are broken, women insulted called randis, though I do not find any abuse in that except victinsising and mass humiliation, the conflict goes on. Here we are biharis, punjabis, tamils, marwaris, jainsetc, conflicting with each other out in the open.. The friction of values much stronger. , , , ,  , , That is why women get little support and shelter here, because of dogmatism and narrow interest politics. Delhi is an elaboration, not an exception(Based on true experiences at a Kalibari at Safdarjung Enclave). >Yup Gurgaon is gliterring coz it is newly planned, but we need expert health care etc there too! > > > > >________________________________ >From: Naeem Mohaiemen >To: sarai list >Sent: Sunday, 9 August, 2009 8:49:31 PM >Subject: [Reader-list] Sam Miller on Delhi > >"Twelve of India’s 54 billionaires live in the city, but the majority >of its citizens are poor, powerless migrants from rural areas in >India, Nepal and Bangladesh. It is one of the most unsafe cities in >India for women, who are murdered, raped and harassed at home and in >public more widely than anywhere else in the country, while the use of >expensive ultrasound technology to enable the selective abortion some >24,000 female foetuses every year has resulted in a skewed sex ratio >of 820 girls to every 1,000 boys." > > >The National (UAE) >In his new book, Sam Miller tackles Delhi’s disparities by walking >through it, eschewing its new arterial roads and flyovers for back >streets and slums. Siddhartha Deb considers the city he discovers. > >Delhi: Adventures in a Megacity >Sam Miller >Jonathan Cape >Dh94 > >On October 31, 1984, the Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi was >gunned down in her Delhi bungalow by two Sikh bodyguards. There was a >bloody war going on between Sikh separatists and the Indian state, and >the assassins were said to have been outraged by Gandhi’s decision to >send soldiers into the Golden Temple, the holiest of Sikh shrines, to >capture a separatist leader. After a brief period of calm, a process >of savage retribution began in many parts of the country, directed at >Sikhs who had nothing to do with the killing or the separatist >movement. Delhi, despite being the most heavily policed city in the >country, saw the worst of such violence. Leaders of the Congress >party, then in power, led mobs through the alleyways of poor >neighbourhoods like Trilokpuri, where they pillaged and murdered, >often setting people on fire after dousing them with kerosene. By the >time the army took control, nearly 3,000 people were dead. > >Twenty-five years later, none of the senior Congress functionaries who >directed the mobs – and whose names are well known – have been >punished. The killings of 1984 have instead become one more incident >relegated to the past by an elite singularly obsessed with entering >the future. As for Delhi, it has been busy transforming itself for the >past decade, embracing the market economy of the West and furiously >erecting shopping malls, five-star hotels and flyovers. The upper >classes of Delhi talk about plans to remake it into a futuristic >“world city” (a goal usually proclaimed by posters on the walls of >public restrooms), and gesture with pride at the new train system >whose steel-coloured cars can be seen racing across the skyline. > >But millennial Delhi remains an unequal, violent place. Twelve of >India’s 54 billionaires live in the city, but the majority of its >citizens are poor, powerless migrants from rural areas in India, Nepal >and Bangladesh. It is one of the most unsafe cities in India for >women, who are murdered, raped and harassed at home and in public more >widely than anywhere else in the country, while the use of expensive >ultrasound technology to enable the selective abortion some 24,000 >female foetuses every year has resulted in a skewed sex ratio of 820 >girls to every 1,000 boys. As for the new train system, it is an >exception in a city where public transportation is erratic and unsafe >and the roads are resolutely hostile to pedestrians. In every way, the >high-rises and slums of Delhi are filled with so many stories of >disparity that the city demands the kind of muckraking attention that >Upton Sinclair, for instance, brought to a similarly corrupt Chicago a >century ago. But even within India, there are few books on Delhi that >compare to recent writing on Bombay, from Suketu Mehta’s nonfiction >account, Maximum City, to Vikram Chandra’s thriller, Sacred Games. In >spite of the city’s energetic publishing scene, its best writers, >usually people who have migrated there from other parts of India, seem >uncertain about how to engage their new home. > >This invisibility of Delhi, the way its most significant stories flare >briefly into headlines before being rapidly extinguished, is something >I think about every time I return there. So when I started reading Sam >Miller’s Delhi: Adventures in a Megacity in a local bookstore, I was >intrigued to find that he had tackled Delhi’s disparities head on by >walking through it. Miller, a BBC journalist who has lived in the city >for seven years, writes: “If you don’t walk in Delhi, large parts of >the city will be invisible to you. Its slums are mainly situated away >from the main roads, hidden from the upmarket residential areas.” He >knows his project is dangerous – pavements and pedestrian crossings >are rare, and speeding vehicles are known to run people over – but he >thinks the effort worthwhile, not only for the narrative frisson it >yields, but also because it increases the possibility of sudden, >serendipitous encounters, especially with the hidden poor. > >A writer walking through the madness of Delhi needs a method, not >least because the route one chooses determines the story. Miller is >aware of his literary precedents: Baudelaire, whose flâneur strolled >the boulevards of 19th-century Paris at night, thereby encountering >pimps, prostitutes and police agents; WG Sebald, whose walks along the >Norfolk coast of England in The Rings of Saturn offered a slow, >melancholic consideration of the once-frenetic energy of the mansions >and hotels of the region, now fallen into ruin; and Ian Sinclair, >whose “psychogeographical” approach of walking along a route suggested >by an arbitrary letter drawn on a London map helped create a portrait >of a city unknown to tourists or gentrifiers. > >After reading about the concentric circles used to build Muslim cities >in India, Miller chooses a spiralling circuit for himself. It was an >astute decision, ensuring not only that he would cross tightly >segregated demographic zones, but also that he would follow the >circular layout of the old Connaught Circle and the two Ring Roads, >once central to the city’s layout, but now obscured by the hauteur of >straight arterial roads and looping overpasses. > >Miller starts his tour in the concentric circles of the British-built >area of Connaught Place, then takes in the chowks of the Mughal city >to the north known as Old Delhi, and wanders past the five-star hotels >and high-walled bungalows of Luyten’s Delhi, a neighbourhood of >politicians, bureaucrats and industrialists. As his spiral widens, he >also navigates the affluent neighbourhoods of the south, the arriviste >settlements of the west, and, just across the toxic strip of water >that was once the Yamuna rivers, the middle-class clusters of the >east. It is telling that he finds no fixed address, no set >neighbourhood, for the poor. Instead, he encounters them in the >interstices of the metropolis, sleeping on the streets and under >flyovers, in blue plastic tents next to construction sites, or in >slums that can be cleared away at a moment’s notice. Walking along the >banks of the Yamuna, Miller sees on its east side the Akshardham >temple complex, a sprawling monument of Hindu kitsch approved by the >courts despite concerns that it would impede the river’s flow of >water. Almost directly across from it, he finds a police barracks on >the site of what was, until recently, Delhi’s largest slum, housing >some 300,000 people. > >Such scenes are depicted with empathy by Miller, who uses the >privileged eccentricity of his whiteness to engage in conversations >that reveal much about lives usually relegated to the margins of the >city’s consciousness. He meets butchers who interrupt their slaughter >of buffaloes to threaten him with knives but who shake his hand before >he leaves; a young woman who, slightly sick from the smell of >industrial glue, offers the author a soda before returning to her job >demonstrating a 10-foot long printer; and a man on a bicycle who uses >a speaker magnet to collect traces of iron from vehicle emissions that >he plans to sell for 30 cents a kilo. Miller’s prose has none of the >baroque texture to be found in Baudelaire, Sebald and Sinclair, but he >blends anecdotes and details well. His decision to emulate Sebald in >placing small black-and-white photographs within the text is >particularly successful, lending the book a kaleidoscopic feel that >captures something of the ad hoc nature of the city. > >In a chapter on Old Delhi, we see a grainy picture of a suspected >heroin dealer being beaten by two policemen against a >dystopian-seeming backdrop of a crumbling mansion, a dead tree, piles >of trash, and an audience of ragged children: > >“The violent policeman slapped him across the face. He recoiled in >slow motion, his shoulder hunching up as if waiting for the next blow. >Instead, the policemen began emptying his pockets. A piece of string, >some tinfoil, some matches, a few coins, and what looked like a >tightly folded empty crisp packet, secured with a rubber band. >‘Evidence,’ said the violent policeman, speaking a word of English for >the first time, as he placed the little package in his pocket without >opening it. And then his second world of English, just a little >threateningly, a word of closure and command: ‘Goodbye,’ he said and >waved me away.” > >There are many similar passages in the recent fiction anthology Delhi >Noir, whose 14 contributors use noir conventions to offer scathing >indictments of the brutality of the city’s police, the vulgarity of >its upper classes, and the desperation of the poor (the first story, >by Omair Ahmad, even reconstructs one of the killings of 1984). >Unfortunately, the stories rarely achieve the intensity on display in >Miller’s book. Often, their accounts of corrupt policeman and >resentful servants merely expand on headlines without offering a fresh >perspective or allowing for full immersion into the lives or city >being depicted. Those that succeed – Siddharth Chowdhury’s Hostel, >Hartosh Singh Bal’s Just Another Death, and the Hindi writer Uday >Prakash’s The Walls of Delhi – do so because they are alert not just >to the horrible things that happen in Delhi, but also to how it feels >to observe and write about them. In Bal’s story, for instance, the >idealistic narrator, an ambitous journalist who has investigated a >random, insignificant killing ends his account abruptly, on a cynical >note that captures the numbing effect of the city by borrowing the >hard-boiled tone of the noir detective who, ultimately, cannot make a >difference: > >“What Mohanty had just told me didn’t make the case any simpler – >either the police or the councillor and his men were capable of such >brutality. But at that moment, the facts didn’t matter. No one in this >city gave a damn, and having made it so far, I was just beginning to >realise neither did I.” > >Miller, too, has to come to some form of reckoning. At the end of his >walk, he finds himself in the suburb of Gurgaon, surrounded by >shopping malls and condominiums whose names (“Malibu Towne,” >“Belvedere Park,” “Maple Heights”) have been copied from suburban >America. Just a few pages earlier, he had visited similar housing >developments expanding through fields of mustard, with former farmers >doubtfully counting the cash they have made from selling their land, >hoping their children will find service jobs in Gurgaon. Miller >doesn’t like Gurgaon, but he repeats the conventional wisdom that >“Gurgaon is probably the future, and Delhi, and other Indian cities, >will become more and more like Gurgaon.” > >This is a false note in what is otherwise a remarkably perceptive >book, for Gurgaon’s modernity is just as skin deep as Delhi’s, even if >it has been laid on by more competent cosmetic surgeons. Its apartment >blocks may be newer and cleaner, but they play out the same stories of >disparity and its discontents. Gurgaon represents not a solution to >the city’s problems, but an attempt to evade them in the manner >characteristic of India’s elite in recent years. Such an evasion can >work for only so long. There are already signs that the lopsided >economic growth that made such subterfuge possible is beginning to >give way to national slowdown. And in Delhi, one sees a return of the >repressed. In April a Sikh journalist outraged at a government report >absolving a Congress leader of responsibility in the killings of 1984 >threw his shoe at the home minister. Meanwhile, there are biker gangs >on the streets, carrying out petty muggings and the occasional murder. >The perpetrators are thought to be the children of victims of the >anti-Sikh riots of 1984, survivors who have decided that what prevails >in Delhi is might, not justice.. > > >Siddhartha Deb is a fellow at Harvard University’s Radcliffe >Institute, and he teaches creative writing at the New School. He is >currently working on a nonfiction book about contemporary India. >_________________________________________ >reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >Critiques & Collaborations >To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >      See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ >_________________________________________ >reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >Critiques & Collaborations >To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> ________________________________ See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ From c.anupam at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 20:51:33 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:51:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A follow up...............silence won't count anymore! In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908100232n7dd896dch393a21e51fc9788c@mail.gmail.com> References: <9d0d777b0908100033hdd61dbbo8dfaa544e56e51f4@mail.gmail.com> <9d0d777b0908100034g2b5ad1a1h51af4379ceb1d3e8@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908100232n7dd896dch393a21e51fc9788c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00908100821w1dea0c12m818ce2230bc39837@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rajen Is it possible to resolve conflicts through something as elusive called governance? - anupam On 8/10/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi wrote: > > Dear all, extremely sad, but true state of affairs at Manipur, as > governance has gone for a toss, the administration is in the hand of > unlawful persons with and without uniforms, sad commentary of how bad > governance or lack of it affects the "identity" of the citizen and how lack > of concern of the central governance affects the state and federation of > India.! > > Regards, > > Rajen. > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Rajkamal Goswami < > rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com > > wrote: > > > *CURRENT AFFAIRS* *cover story* > > > > *Life In A Shadow Land* > > > > *As Manipur comes to a boil in the aftermath of a fake encounter, **SHOMA > > CHAUDHURY** maps the fractured truths and complex wars raging in the > state. > > Photographs by **SHAILENDRA PANDEY* > > > > ON JULY 23, 2009, on an ordinary day in Imphal, six people were going > about > > their morning chores in a crowded market on BT Road. P Lukhoi Singh, a > > rider > > working with the Assam Rifles, had just delivered a packet to the SP > (CID) > > and had stopped to chat with a friend. Gimamgal, a peon, was cycling to > > work. Ningthonjam Keshorani, mother of three, was selling fruit. W Gita > > Rani > > had just visited her doctor and was trying to catch an autorickshaw. > Rabina > > Devi, five months pregnant, was holding her 2-year-old son Russel’s hand > > and > > buying a banana before she met up with her husband, working at a mobile > > shop. And 22-year-old Chongkham Sanjit, a former insurgent, was on his > way > > to buy medicine for a sick uncle in hospital. > > [image: image]*Counter kills* Sanjit, killed in cold blood; Rabina Devi > > lies > > next to him, shot by accident > > > > *View slideshow< > > http://www.tehelka.com/story_main42.asp?filename=Ne150809coverstory.asp# > > > > *** > > > > Suddenly, a young man ran from a police frisking. Shots rang out. Lukhoi > > Singh heard a sound like “automatic firing” and tried to duck beneath his > > motorbike but was badly hit. He saw two cops walking into the crowd, > > firing. > > He told them he was hurt but they did not stop. Gimamgal heard a burst of > > sound and kept cycling. He didn’t realise he had been hit till he saw > blood > > pouring down his body. His left arm was shattered. N Keshorani heard the > > gunfire and started to push her fruit cart away but buckled suddenly. She > > had been shot in the calf. Gita Rani just heard a sound. She didn’t > realise > > she had been hit till she saw blood staining her chest. Rabina Devi just > > dropped dead. A bullet went straight through her forehead and out of her > > neck. Her little son saw his mother lying in a pool of blood and began to > > scream. > > > > Sanjit was standing at a PCO when within minutes he was surrounded by > > commandos. There were four civilians injured and one dead on the road: > the > > cops needed an alibi. On that busy road, in the middle of a crowded > market, > > in full view of Manipur’s citizens, Sanjit was dragged into a pharmacy > next > > door and shot point blank. His body was then dragged out by the commandos > > and tossed into a truck along with Rabina Devi. > > > > All of this passed for a routine day in Manipur. The area was not > cordoned > > off, no forensics were called in. The State Assembly was in session when > > the > > incident happened. By late afternoon, Chief Minister Ibobi Singh had > tabled > > a statement saying Sanjit, a member of PLA, a proscribed militant outfit, > > had shot five civilians while trying to escape a police frisking but > > Manipur’s brave commandos had killed him in an encounter. A 9mm Mauser > was > > found on him. The CM also said there was no way to stem the menace of > > insurgents except to “eliminate” them (a statement he later denied). The > > Opposition swallowed the story without question. Everyone went back to > > business. > > > > Manipur is a dark shadow land. Nothing there is what it seems. Fear and > > fatigue have become its universal character traits. It is estimated that > > about 300 people have been killed in 2009 alone between insurgents and > > state > > forces. But nobody dares to raise any questions. People suspect things, > but > > in the absence of proof, they look away. Each time someone dies, the > > neighbourhood constitutes a Joint Action Committee (JAC). Token protests > > are > > made, sometimes followed by token compensations, and everyone tries to > live > > on. The same would have happened this time, except an anonymous > > photographer > > captured the damning extra-judicial killing of Sanjit on camera. > Terrified > > of publishing the pictures in local papers, the photographer contacted > > TEHELKA. > > > > Our story – *Murder in Plain Sight *– published last week was like a > > pressure cooker burst. As the story traveled, protests erupted across the > > state. People everywhere poured into the streets, demanding a judicial > > enquiry and the chief minister’s resignation. Young boys fought off > > commandos with slingshots and marbles. Women stretched their *phaneks* > > across > > roads as deterrents (Manipuri men are traditionally forbidden to touch > > women’s clothes drying on a clothesline) and openly courted arrested. As > L > > Gyaneshwari, a women protestor recovering in hospital, says, “TEHELKA > > opened > > the gates to the tears blocked within us. We have always known the truth > > about these killings but we never had any evidence and had lost the > > strength > > to speak. Now, we’ve found courage again. If a vegetable vendor had not > > grabbed Rabina Devi’s bag and kept it with her, the commandos would have > > put > > a 9mm in it and passed her off as a militant as well.” “TEHELKA has woken > > up > > Manipur,” says Arun Irengbam, editor of the news daily, *Ireipak.* The > > sentiment runs strong. “We cannot thank TEHELKA enough for bringing the > > truth to light,” says Dayanada Chingtham, co-ordinator of the Apunba Lup, > > an > > apex body of activist groups. “We wish you had done this story two years > > earlier, our police have become too brazen,” says a man, working — > > ironically — in the office of Joy Kumar, the DGP of Police and the man, > in > > a > > sense, at the heart of the storm. > > > > True to script, as the valley erupted in unarmed protest, the State > > responded with typical ham-handedness. Commandos were deployed everywhere > > and protestors were beaten back with water cannons, tear gas and smoke > > bombs. Curfew was imposed. In a telling detail, Rabina Devi’s > grandmother, > > MRK Rajesana, was among a group of elderly women marching towards the > > Governor’s house when they were stopped by commandos. “Arrest us”, they > > taunted. Instead, the cops began to hurl smoke bombs at them. Some of the > > old women ran into a tiny chicken shop for shelter and pulled the shutter > > down. A cop found a small chink in the shutter and threw three smoke > bombs > > in. “Die, you hags”, he shouted. Imagine the outrage of the grandmother: > a > > pregnant granddaughter shot dead, buying a banana, and now the oppressive > > suffocations of a vengeful State. “Manipur’s women fought the British in > > 1904 and 1939. We fought the Indian army in 2004 for Manorama Devi. It is > > time for another *nupi lal* (women’s war). I am inviting our women to > come > > forward for another war,” says she. > > > > *‘The problem is as much with Delhi as with Imphal. The situation in > > Manipur > > can get much worse than Jammu and Kashmir but the Centre just does not > want > > to recognise it’* > > > > *Ved Marwah,* former governor of Manipur > > > > The central hospital in Manipur is full of such brewing stories. KH > Lokhen > > Singh, an autorickshaw driver, was walking down the road, not even part > of > > a > > protest, when a passing commando hurled a smoke bomb at him. As the bomb > > exploded, Lokhen’s face was scalded. He lies in a hospital room now, face > > burnt, blinded. His tiny two-yearold daughter Sangeeta — a baby with an > > angelic face — lies sleeping on the floor on a mat beside him. > > > > Finally, on August 5, 2009, a full week after the story first broke, > Chief > > Minister Ibobi Singh called a press conference, admitted he had been > > misguided into making a false statement about the “unfortunate incident”, > > and promised a judicial enquiry. Six commandos, including a > sub-inspector, > > were suspended. Though protests continued to rage across the state even > > after his announcement, for the moment, the immediate crisis seems to > have > > been defused. > > > > THE FAKE encounter of July 23, however, tells a darker story about > Manipur. > > It lays bare the pent up triumvirate of emotions that have come to > dominate > > the psyche of people here: extreme fear, extreme distrust and extreme > > fatigue. Speak to anyone in the state — the sweetshop owner at the > airport, > > the taxi driver, historians, housewives, journalists, activists, vendors, > > doctors, mechanics — and despair curdles just beneath. Everybody has > > stories > > to tell. Stories of extortion. Kidnapping. Threats. Demand notes. > > Corruption. And extra-judicial killing. > > > > Far away from the national gaze, in fact, this tiny emerald valley > > surrounded by cloud-kissed emerald hills is on the verge of internal > > collapse. Much of this contemporary mess has historical roots. Manipur > has > > never entirely been a willing participant of the Indian Union. Its > dominant > > community — the Meiteis — claim a proud and unbroken history that goes > back > > 2,000 years. In 1947, when the British left, the Manipur Kingdom > > established > > itself as a constitutional monarchy and held elections to its own > > parliament. Two years later, in 1949, the Maharaja of Manipur agreed to > (or > > was forced to, claim the Meiteis) merge with India. First as an inferior > > C-State, then in 1963 as an Union Territory, and finally in 1972 as a > State > > of India. > > > > *‘Guns will not stop the insurgency. Just stop the cycle of killing and > > peace will come. We can earn money, we can manage our family, but “the > Act” > > is beyond bearing’* > > > > *L Mem Choubi,* Apunba Lup > > > > Almost immediately, in 1964, the first underground movement for > > independence > > was born as the United National Liberation Front (UNLF). Other insurgent > > outfits with varying versions of nationalism followed in the 1970s: the > > PLA, > > the PREPAK, the KCP, the KYKL. > > > > But these were not all. Manipur is made up of a rainbow community. Fifty > > seven percent of its people are the Vaishnavite Hindu Meiteis, who live > > dominantly in the valley. In the surrounding hills live the Nagas, Kukis > > and > > Mizo- Chin tribes. The Nagas and Kukis, which themselves have sub-groups, > > are mostly Christian. About seven percent of the state’s population is > made > > up of Muslims — Pangals — who also live in the valley in a district > called > > Thoubal. > > > > Historically, the Meiteis have always felt and behaved superior to the > hill > > tribes. Predictably then, each of these communities have sprouted their > own > > militant underground movements. The Naga movement, in fact, predates the > > UNLF to the 1950s. To simplify a long and complex history, what all of > this > > essentially means is that over the years, this tiny valley with a > > population > > of no more than 25 lakh people has sprouted almost 40 insurgent groups. > > Some > > of them are fighting the Indian State; many of them are fighting each > > other. > > Equally, as Central funds for development have poured into the valley, > but > > failed to climb the hills, the fights have become less over identity and > > more over money. With an eye on the pie, many of the big insurgent groups > > have splintered into innumerable small factions. As every Manipuri > citizen > > will tell you with disgust: “Every sub-ethnic group in Manipur has its > own > > militia, and every militia has its own extortion industry.” > > > > The stories of extortion in Manipur are epic. All well-heeled citizens > are > > routinely sent “demand notes” in the form of threat calls, kidnappings, > > grenades or Chinese bombs hurled into shops and homes, or outright > > killings. > > Apart from these individual payouts, every government contract or > > development fund has a fixed scaffold of cuts that go to the underground > – > > or “UG” as they are collectively known. These fixed cuts have now peaked > at > > 38 percent of every project. In early 2009, Dr Kishan, a officer of the > > Manipur Civil Service, was shot for resisting extortion demands from a > > development fund. As historian and former Apunba Lup leader, Lokendra > > Arambam — an eloquent and disillusioned elder — puts it mildly, “There > has > > been a qualitative degeneration of the militants.” Things are so bleak > that > > the outfits that restrict themselves to “institutional extortion” are now > > seen as honourable or principled. > > EVERY ETHNIC GROUP HAS ITS OWN MILITIA, EVERY MILITIA HAS ITS OWN > EXTORTION > > INDUSTRY > > > > The UG is everywhere in Manipur, permeating the skin of everyday life. > Most > > of them run parallel governments, complete with Finance-in-Charge, > Auditor > > General and Secretaries of military and cultural affairs. In several > > heinous > > incidents, as in the infamous Heirok village episode, the PREPAK group — > > fanatic revivalists who want the Meiteis to go back to their pre-Hindu > past > > — walked into a village celebrating a pre-Diwali ceremony and shot a boy > > and > > girl in cold blood as a lesson for the village. > > > > But the trouble is, the UG is only one facet of the fear that stalks > > Manipur. The more damning facet — because you are groomed to expect > better > > from it — is the State itself. > > > > LIKE CHAUVINISTIC nation States everywhere in the world, from the very > > start, India has responded to the riddles of identity in the North-East > > with > > brute force rather than patient dialogue. In 1958, it responded to the > Naga > > movement with a draconian version of an old colonial law: The Armed > Forces > > Special Powers Act (AFSPA). This Act allows even junior officers of the > > army > > to arrest, torture or kill any citizen on mere suspicion, and to search > and > > destroy property without a warrant. It also stipulates that no army > officer > > or jawan can be punished without the sanction of the Central government. > > > > With every passing year, different districts of Manipur were brought > under > > this Act. By 1980, all of Manipur had begun to live under its shadow. It > is > > difficult to imagine the history of violence this Act has brought to > > Manipur, and the “psychology of impunity” it has bred. Think of a > conflict > > zone — a place where death comes easy, where everyone is jumpy — and > think > > of young men enabled to do as they please, ungoverned by law, unmindful > of > > any punishment. > > > > *‘Our morality was so muddied and the fear of State and non-State players > > so > > rampant, even civil society had taken a backseat. Tehelka has retrieved a > > bit of our humanity’* > > > > *Lokendra Arambam,* historian and dramatist > > > > In the 30 years that the Act has been valid in Manipur, hundreds of young > > men and women have disappeared, been tortured, raped or killed. Despite > > dozens of human rights reports, no action was taken against the army. In > > 2004, the frustration pent up over decades spilled out like lava. A young > > woman, Manorama Devi, was dragged out of her house in the middle of the > > night by jawans of the Assam Rifles and led away. Her body was found the > > next day, brutalised, raped. A spontaneous rage ran through Manipur. > Amidst > > protests across the state, a dozen elderly women stripped themselves > stark > > naked and demonstrated in front of the Assam Rifles headquarters carrying > > searing placards: “Indian Army Rape Us.” > > > > Their extreme despair had a tiny impact: The Jeevan Reddy Committee was > set > > up to review the Act. Its recommendations have still not been > implemented, > > but in a minor victory, the Act and the army were removed from the city > > districts of Imphal. > > > > In the five years since, a new monster has been born on Manipur’s already > > ravaged landscape: the Manipur Police Commandos. With the army pulled > back, > > the state and Central governments took a conscious decision to groom a > wing > > of the state police to “stamp out” the insurgents. Unfortunately, that > has > > bred a fear in the people as crippling as their fear of the UG. As the > > editor of*Ireipak,* Arun Irengbam, puts it, “The psychology of the AFSPA > is > > like a contagious disease. The commandos move around with the same sense > of > > impunity the army used to.” > > > > He is right. The official mindscape in Manipur is so militarised, it > cannot > > think of approaching any problem except through violent suppression. As > in > > every conflict zone, the arguments are complex. On the one hand are the > > excesses of the insurgents: the extortions, the murders, the intra-outfit > > killings. As a top police officer puts it, “We can either let things > drift, > > or we can decide to take action. The truth is, we are hitting back more > in > > the last two years. Look at how the Punjab problem was sorted out. I > accept > > our boys might go too far sometimes, but you have to understand their > > psychology too. They too can be shot at any time and they get jumpy. Our > > police stations are unviable. We have just 10-15 men, we need at least 58 > > per station. We need more men, we need more weapons.” > > IT IS DIFFICULT TO IMAGINE THE‘PSYCHOLOGY OF IMPUNITY’ THE ACT HAS > BROUGHT > > TO MANIPUR > > > > But power is a heady pill and the atrocities of the army over 30 years > have > > found a twin face in the commandos. The two years since the police > decided > > to “hit back” coincide with a huge spurt in police atrocities. The brazen > > killing of Sanjit — in broad daylight, in a crowded market — is only a > > symptom. The list of similar (but unproven) illegal executions in just > 2008 > > runs a mile long. Even if you suppose for a moment that they are all > > militants, as the police might claim, Johnson Elangbam of the Apunba Lup > > has > > a timely reminder. “If even Kasab can be put on trial for Mumbai 26/11, > why > > don’t Manipuri boys deserve the same treatment under law?” > > > > This absence of law — the absence of sanity — has created a corrosive > > paranoia in Manipur. Drive into Imphal and you feel the fear everywhere. > > Jeep-loads of commandos drive around the city, heavily armed, shooting > and > > bullying at will. According to activists, in 2005, Lokhon Singh, a > > commando, > > was shot by Vikas, a PLA cadre, who in turn was killed. During Singh’s > > funeral, the police stormed into Vikas’ house and arrested everyone in > his > > family. Then they allegedly gang-raped his girlfriend, Naobi. When Naobi > > told the court, “They have taken whatever they could from my body,” an > > officer apparently threatened her in front of the magistrate. No action > was > > taken. > > > > In another sign of this paranoid fear bred by the State, after TEHELKA’s > > story on Sanjit’s fake encounter, journalists and activists in Imphal > tried > > hard to deter anyone from TEHELKA visiting Manipur. “We cannot assure > your > > safety,” they said. “The commandos are looking everywhere for the > > photographer who gave you the pictures.” At the chief minister’s > > conference, > > local journalists who had helped us navigate the city asked us not to > > recognise them for fear of reprisal. Sometimes, distrust can be more > > damaging than empirical fear. > > > > *‘We can either let things drift, or we can decide to take action. The > > truth > > is, we are hitting back more in the last two years. That is how the > Punjab > > problem was sorted’* > > > > *Senior police officer,* requesting anonymity > > > > Ved Marwah, former super cop and former governor of Manipur affirms, “No > > police in the country has a worse record than the Manipur police. There > is > > an allegation that they shot one their own officers in a fake encounter. > > The > > force is completely divided along ethnic lines and functions like the > armed > > militia of the ruling party. That place is like the Wild East.” > > > > There are immediate palpable reasons why the Manipur Police Commandos > have > > suddenly morphed into a new dragon face of the State. There is, most of > > all, > > the psychology of impunity. But since the decision to use the police and > > army as a combined force to “stamp out” the insurgents, there has also > been > > a sudden rapid expansion of the force. From a mere 300, the commando unit > > has shot up to a 1,000. Now, according to the police source, 1,600 new > > commandos have been sanctioned. But where are these high caliber men to > > come > > from? > > > > Local journalists and activists speak of a massive recruitment scam. To > > become a sub-inspector, you pay Rs 10-15 lakh with kickbacks running all > > the > > way to the top politicians. To become a commando, you pay Rs 5 lakh. To > > become a rifleman, you pay Rs 1-2 lakh. Sources within the force confirm > > all > > this to be true. Unfortunately, logic demands you earn back what you pay > > out > > and the number of extortion demands by the police has risen > proportionately > > to the expansion of the force. Taking in former militants into the force, > > as > > well as giving gallantry awards to commandos who kill militants, have all > > contributed towards creating a force that is, at least partly, motivated > by > > a combination of greed, testosterone, vendetta and unbridled power. > > > > “I admit 10-20 percent of our boys could be bad eggs,” says the police > > officer. “We have to fine-tune their behaviour and make them more humane. > I > > also admit the AFSPA needs to be amended, particularly section 4 and 6 > > whose > > wording now allows the boys leeway to torture or kill under any > > circumstance. But, in general, the violence is unlikely to come down > soon. > > We need at least two years to clean up all this. We have to finish what > has > > been begun. And please don’t believe everything you read in the Manipur > > press. First find out which UG outfit it is a mouthpiece for.” > > > > TRUTH IS, indeed, a difficult thing to ascertain in Manipur. The state is > > like an illusory pool, you step into it, and you are lost. Militants and > > politicians are friends. Commandos and extortionists are collaborators. > > Friends are informers. Law enforcers are killers. Beneath the table, > every > > hand is interlinked. > > TRUTH IS DIFFICULT TO ASCERTAIN IN MANIPUR. EVERY HAND IS INTERLINKED > > BENEATH > > > > In early 2008, the police carried out a surprise raid in Babupara – the > > elite colony where ministers and government officials live behind several > > layers of thickly grilled iron gates. According to a top police source, > who > > asked not to be named, twelve KYKL insurgents were found in a Congress > > MLA’s > > house. According to the same source, UNLF cadres were also found in a MPP > > member’s house. Others will tell you that politicians themselves inform > the > > UG about every new scheme that comes into the state – expecting tidy > thank > > you notes in return for their courtesy. > > > > What makes things worse is that, as the police officer alleged, the media > > in > > Manipur is certainly part of the many mirages in the state. A complex > > matrix > > of allegiance and coercion governs them. On August 4, for instance, > > shockingly, *The Sangai Express*carried a glowing account of the KCP > (MC), > > a > > proscribed militant outfit’s third anniversary. The next day, the paper > > carried an open threat from the outfit to Vodafone masquerading as a > story. > > “Tabunga Meiti, secretary in-charge of the revolutionary government of > the > > KCP,” the story went, “says that the bomb attack at the office of > Vodafone > > was the first and last warning for not conceding to the request for some > > monetary contribution to the outfit… To run an important organisation > like > > KCP which is fighting for the cause of a nation, money is required…” > > > > “The UG does try to use our papers as notice boards for their demand > > notes,” > > says Arun of *Ireipak* wryly. Issued a threat by the UG outfit a few > years > > ago for not toeing their ultra-revivalist line, he went underground for > six > > months, before he decided he’d rather die than live a life of a fugitive. > > But many others cave in. As Pradip Phanjaobam, editor, *Imphal Free > > Press,* says, > > “The government also tries to issue guidelines to us, but we argue with > > them. Most of our real self-censorship is out of fear of the UG.” Or out > of > > allegiance. For as another editor admits candidly, “I do have great > empathy > > for the UNLF.” > > > > *‘If even Kasab can be put on trial for Mumbai 26/11, why don’t Manipuri > > boys deserve the same treatment under law? Why should they be > eliminated?’* > > > > *Johnson Elangbam,* rights activist > > > > SANJIT’S MOTHER, Inaotombi, sits stoically in white against a bamboo pole > > in > > Khurai. She refuses to conduct the *shraddha* ceremony for her son till a > > judicial enquiry is instated and the CM resigns. Inaotombi has borne more > > than a mother should. Her son joined the proscribed PLA when he was 13 > > though she pleaded with him not to. By the time he was 20, he had a chest > > injury and had come overground. Two years later, he was dead. She has > three > > other sons and must now contain their fear and anger. When the neighbours > > start rattling a stone on a metal pole — a cops want to kill. What made a > > 13-yearold boy join the PLA? Neither AFSPA nor commandos can answer that > > question. The rift at the heart of Manipur is an internal one – between > its > > various ethnic groups. Neither AFSPA nor commandos can heal that either. > > > > Equally then, the intellectuals of Manipur could draw some lessons of > their > > own. How valid is the injured sense of alienation that has kept the > > insurgencies buoyant over 30 years? “Is there space for us in the Indian > > imagination?” own communities. It needs inclusive growth with inclusive > > governance.” > > > > More emotional sensitivity from the Centre might help, though. When the > new > > Minister for the North-East, BK Handique was asked to comment on the > crisis > > in Manipur, he said, “Law and order is not our concern.” It should be, > > though, because the militarisation has the Centre’s sanction and as > Pradip > > says, “You lose a bit of yourself every time you put up a fight. And you > > lose more if nothing happens.” > > > > *WRITER’S EMAIL* > > shoma at tehelka.com > > > > -- > > Rajkamal Goswami > > PhD Student in Conservation Science > > Ashoka Trust for Research in Ecology and the Environment (ATREE) > > Royal Enclave, Sri Ramapura, Jakkur P.O. > > Bangalore 560 064 Karnataka, India. > > Phone: 080-23635555, extn: 145 > > Mobile: 09740362460 > > Fax: 91 80 2353 0070 > > > > Web: www.atree.org > > > > > > > > -- > > Rajkamal Goswami > > PhD Student in Conservation Science > > Ashoka Trust for Research in Ecology and the Environment (ATREE) > > Royal Enclave, Sri Ramapura, Jakkur P.O. > > Bangalore 560 064 Karnataka, India. > > Phone: 080-23635555, extn: 145 > > Mobile: 09740362460 > > Fax: 91 80 2353 0070 > > > > Web: www.atree.org > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Rajen. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Mon Aug 10 20:40:45 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:10:45 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908100251m61055704t1d54be26379d0bd8@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908100331n1c28c00ehd849fbf88e866741@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40908100810j766969d0x1b464193a0ab87b3@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rajen, I think you are absolutely correct. RSS do not hate Muslims. RSS is a mere name of an organization. A name is incapable of showing any emotion against or for any social group. However, lets us revisit some of the pearls of wisdom which were uttered by great thinkers, which many contemporary members of RSS simply love to read. I would like to regard Veer Vinayak Damodar Savarkar as one of them and I am sure you will join me, in this acknowledgment. This is what Veer Vinayak Damodar Savarkar, had to say about so called, 'Religious Bigotry of Indian Muslims'- " It is useless to declare only the Muslim league as communal. It is not news, it is a reality, that the entire Muslim community is embed in the spirit of communalism' [ Rana, B.S. 2004. Veer Vinayak Damodar Savarkar, p127 ] Then there was venerable Guruji. Whose love for Muslims was legendary. This is what Madhav Sadashiv Ggolwalkar aka Guruji had to say about followers of Islam in India: They [Muslims] have also developed a feeling of identification with the enemies of this land. They look to some foreign lands as their holy places. They call them selves Sheikhs and Sayeds...They still think they have come here to conquer and establish their kingdoms. So we see it not only as a change of faith and as a change of national identity. What else it is, if not treason, to join the camp of enemy, leaving the mother nation in the lurch. [words of Guruji- as cited in, Basu, T. 1993. Khaki Shorts and Saffron Flags. p28 ] Here's another account of goodness of Gurujee with respect to Muslims. I take the honor and privilege of citing the text below, directly from the official website of the BJP. We all know of course, how members of the BJP has time and again shown to every one, how much they care deeply about Muslims. The text below relates to what many members of the BJP like to call its core philosophy, which goes by a rather fuzzy name called- Integral Humanism. The text pertains to a lecture delivered to many thousands of patriots by venerable Pandit Deendayal Upadhyaya, on April 22-25, 1965. Here Panditjee, is trying to tell us about, distinctions about individual versus society and as a way of illustration, cites a conversation which, according to Upadhyaya jee, happened between Shri Vinobaji and the Sar Sanghachalak of Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, Shri Guruji, -Let me give you an illustration. Once during a conversation between Shri Vinobaji and the Sar Sanghachalak of Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, Shri Guruji, a question arose as to where the modes of thinking of Hindus and Muslims differ. Guruji said to Vinobaji that there are good and bad people in every society. There can be found honest and good people in Hindus as well as in Muslims. Similarly rascals can be seen in both the societies. No particular society has a monopoly of goodness. However, it is observed that Hindus even if they are rascals in individual life, when they come together in a group, they always think of good things. On the other hand when two Muslims come together, they propose and approve of things which they themselves in their individual capacity would not even think of. They start thinking in an altogether different way. This is an everyday experience. Vinobaji admitted that there was truth in this observation but had no reasons to explain it.- [ Upadhyaya, D.D. 1965. integral Humanism. Individual versus Society. url- http://www.bjp.org/content/view/444/396/ ] Such was the clarity of TRUTH that Vinobaji did not even think about reasons for explaining it. Javed, considering the above thoughts, I sincerely feel you must reconsider your comments. Rajen is absolutely correct in my opinion. RSS does not hate Muslims or Christians. People associated with the RSS merely think that Musilms are traitors, Muslims are communal, Muslims are divisive as a community. But of course that does not mean, they HATE Muslims. Hate, I think, is a particularly strong word to define a relationship you see. For the time being, I think, I would rather go by Karan Johar's insightful words, 'kuch rishtyon ka naam nahi hota, woh bas hoteain hain' Warm regards Taha From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 21:18:05 2009 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:48:05 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] Sam Miller on Sarai Message-ID: On Sarai, excerpt from Sam Miller's book... In the basement of a modern building at the foot of the Ridge, ten minutes from the site of Ludlow Castle, are the offices of an organisation that calls itself ‘Sarai’. Anyone who asks the simple question ‘What is Sarai?’ may not get such a simple answer. It is a place, but it also an idea. Sarai is Delhi at its most modern, its most virtual. It exists in a series of rooms in Civil Lines, but it also orbits in cyber-space. According to its own publicity literature, Sarai ‘encompasses an inter-disciplinary research programme, a platform for critical reflection, a screening space, a convivial context for online and offline conversations and a media lab’. I have known about Sarai for several years, as an unashamed lurker on its e-mail groups – receiving regular updates on a eclectic range of subjects, often about Delhi, ranging from ‘the Culture of Telephone Booths’, through ‘Society and the Soap Factory to ‘Locating Sexuality through the eyes of Afghan and Burmese Refugee Women in Delhi’. Many of these discussions are suffused with post-modern jargon, but usually they are worth the effort. Sarai – the non-virtual part of it – consists of three rooms: a private inner sanctum where individuals have their own workstations; a glass-walled public access computer area (the media lab), and a large meeting room with a café. No-one looked up when I walked in and sat down, eavesdropping. There was a three-way discussion about French philosophers (Foucault and de Certeau), a young man was retying his pony tail as he watched cricket on a wall-mounted TV (not quakeproof – a potentially lethal missile, I decided), and a young woman was sitting at a table staring at her coffee mug as if it were an object of worship. I interrupted her to ask for help getting access to the Sarai online archive (I needed to find out more about Ludlow Castle). She gave me a split-second look of exasperation, before getting to her feet and handing me over to the resident computer expert. He took me into the media lab (with only one of the eight computers free), sat me down in front of a terminal and began logging me in. ‘Username: guest. Password: guest. You do know Linux and Mozilla Firefox[1], don’t you?’ ‘Er, yes - a little.’ I was lying. I suppose I was rather proud of myself for having heard of them, and too embarrassed to admit that I hadn’t ever used them. I knew that they were the main software competition to Microsoft, and that they were, in some way that I didn’t quite understand, alternative, democratic and trendy. He’d put me on to a local area network where I could now access the archive. I entered ‘Ludlow Castle Delhi’ in the search box, and the entire screen went white. So did I. My usual solution, ‘Ctrl-Alt-Del’, had no effect, I panicked. And looking surreptitiously around, knowing I was doing something very naughty, I pressed my finger down hard on the on/off key. With a tell-tale squeak the screen went blank. I looked around again; no-one was staring with disdain in my direction. I’d escaped detection, and thirty seconds later I turned the computer on again, to a profusion of messages about how sinful I’d been to turn it off improperly. [1] Mozilla Firefox – Netscape’s successor and the main rival to Explorer as an Internet browser. A firefox is a red panda still found in India. Mozilla is a contraction of Mosaic Killer (Mosaic was the first widely used Internet browser). Linux is an open-source operating system, invented by Linus Thorvalds, a rival to MS Windows and Apple’s Mac OS. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 21:37:14 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:07:14 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908100251m61055704t1d54be26379d0bd8@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908100331n1c28c00ehd849fbf88e866741@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Rajen jee (and all) I have been reading the book 'Development & Freedom' by Amartya Sen lately, and have found the basic idea of the 'Capabilities Approach' and the idea of 'expansion of freedoms and rights' very nice and important in the context of development. And in this context, comparing with this approach, the RSS is an organization which, along with its sister organizations, seems to be working against this very idea. Sen clearly articulates his position that freedoms and rights are very important for individuals not only because they have an intrinsic value (in terms of giving them right to political and social participation and engagement), but also because they have an instrumental value (in terms of seeking better conditions for themselves). For example, the freedom of speech can help a tribal or a destitute to undertake political participation or present his views on a social forum (which may or may not solve the problem of the individual concerned, but at least is a right in itself). At the same time, such a freedom can also play an important role in solving the problem itself, particularly if there are many people who face a similar condition and such an action builds public pressure on the authorities. In this context, the Sangh Parivar must be castigated for having forced the minorities into a 'threat complex' of a constant basis, by constantly attacking their rights and freedoms. I had once earlier stated that an important official of the RSS had once stated that 'the minorities must depend on the goodwill of the majority community'. This is a totally despicable statement, for at once not only does it disregard the rights provided to the minorities by the Indian Constitution, but it also attacks other rights and freedoms which a state is morally bound to provide to each and every individual (like human rights, right to life, right to water and so on). In particular, the kind of attacks witnessed in Kandhamal, post-Godhra, Karnataka or even after the Babri Masjid demolition, whether it be by Muslims or by the Hindus, are of such nature too. And in particular, the Sangh Parivar must be condemned for having toyed around with the rights and freedoms of individuals, for its own political gains, either in form of electoral victories (Gujarat 2002) or to form a loyal constituency within the state. Such kinds of actions have many disastrous effects, some of which I summarize as follows: 1) These riots or attacks lead to loss of lives. What is particularly distressing about such riots or attacks is the loss of lives, most of whom are poor or middle class people at best. The poor and the lower middle class, in general, are not in a position of substantial economic security, so that during such 'troubled' times, they can avoid the idea of going to work or for some other purpose. They have to go out and go to work, or open their shops, or undertake their activities of occupation/employment, mainly because if they don't do so, they would not be able to earn enough to provide for their families. And the economic insecurity of the innocents is used by the propagandists and others who like to play politics on dead bodies, to kill them. And this is something the poor have to face as a risk, in order to overcome their economic insecurity. 2) When women are raped, when shops are looted and burnt, when men and women are killed, then it's an attack on the right to life of the individuals, most of whom may not have any connections to the 'cause' for which such violence is perpetrated and later justified by our politicians (like Modi using the Newton's Third Law). And this is an attack on the human rights of the people who don't deserve to have suffered their fate, for no fault of theirs. Most importantly, even if they may have been responsible for Godhra (of which the probability is as much as that of sun rising from the west), this does not mean that we as a society should go down to the level of animals, of torture and of dogs in particular. It's our responsibility to ensure that the system works in a proper way to decide upon the case, work in a fair and transparent manner, based upon fair laws (which again don't infringe upon the justified rights of individuals), and punish those who work against the freedoms of others to exist (but with a view that they are people who can or may potentially improve later in future, or at least should provide them a chance to do so). 3) The riots and the partisan functioning of the police and state administration, ostensibly to protect the perpetrators and violators of law and order, are a direct attack on the right to justice of the victims. The police and district administration, in many cases, has in the past and even in recent incidents, failed most miserably to register cases on time, or in a proper manner. There have been instances of clubbing of many cases in a single FIR. In the case of Gujarat in particular, there have been instances of police closing down cases on the premise of 'lack of evidence', which is appalling considering the fact that it's the judiciary and not the police which can decide if that indeed is the case. 4) The riots or attacks led in this way, also lead to a 'fear psychosis' among the sufferers. They fear that raising their voice or speaking for their rights may lead to further trouble, and therefore keep mum and quiet. In many cases, especially of rape, women don't register cases not only because nobody would marry them (another shameful facet of Indian society, that nobody would be ready to marry a woman who has been raped, as if it was the mistake of woman if she got raped), but also because if they do so, they may face more damaging consequences in the long run. Partisan district, state and police administrations colluding with political parties results in many of the cases also being closed for 'lack of evidence', which ensures that the minorities fear for their lives, and thereby shift to 'safer localities', thereby resulting in the formation of ghettoes. Such ghettoes are not only against the right to life, (which guarantees that people can live in India anywhere as they wish, except in certain states based on certain conditions), but also against the basic right of human existence to settle anywhere as they wish, which is a moral obligation on all states, not just India. Moreover, the after-effects of such ghettoes are not too difficult to envisage. The decrease in conversation and dialogue between people on either side of the ghetto, the social segregation of the people and their lifestyles, combined with the complete emotional sense of loss (in addition to physical sense as well) is something which is a huge cost imposed on the society, thanks to the politics of 'revenge' and victimization, which our politicians and some of the organizations forget, considering that they don't have to bear the costs. 5) The biggest attack is actually on the capabilities, which Sen rightfully accepts as substantially important, for while freedoms are helpful in allowing people to choose for themselves the kind of lives they wish to lead or they value as important, capabilities are instrumental in allowing them to do so practically. The riots attack these capabilities in many people. Children who may have been able to receive proper health care and education prior to riots, may lose their parents and thus also lose both the freedom to be healthy and educated, as well as the capabilities to possibly have used these for getting better job opportunities or to lead lives which they could have valued. Similarly, the case of raped women or single women or those people who survived having seen the destruction around themselves as well as death of their family members, is not very different from the children as well. More over, those who were injured upto substantial extent, thereby being rendered disabled or even ineffective in physical or mental capabilities, have thus been made incapable of actually living the life as they want. (Of course, these are subjected to restrictions and responsibilities as well, and that must be recognized) In all this, while many political parties have been responsible for all these bad effects at some time or the other, in particular, the Sangh Parivar has played a continuous role in acting against the very rights and freedoms which could have improved the condition of the people to a large extent. Even today, Gujarat is behind Kerala in terms of the female-male sex ratio, female and infant mortality rates, literacy rates, and various other indices of health and education. And this is ironic considering that Gujarat has had a much faster economic growth than Kerala. Yet, most of this growth has been jobless. And the only contribution of the Sangh thereby has been to infiltrate institutions in Gujarat on a comprehensive scale, thereby spreading their tentacles, roots and ideologies across the state, thereby changing the very nature of political debates in that state. The result is a 'Hindutva-ization' of society, which means that even a municipality of the Congress can be a party to the idea of destroying the mazaar of 'Wali Gujarati' under curfew, with nobody opposing it of course. The end result is that instead of focussing on undernourishment, implementation of NREGA, or (comparatively) bad state of health and education in that state, the focus in public debates is constantly on Hindutva and victimization of Hindus, most of which, even if it occurred, happened in the past, and certainly not the present. And this only ensures that instead of the tribals, the poor, the downtrodden, the economically backward getting entitlements from the state and thereby getting the freedom to lead lives of their choice, they are forced (in the sense of having less or no choices) to be a part of the propaganda which is increasingly playing an important role in the subjugation of minorities (politically, socially and economically) as well as leading lives as per the dictums and the customs which the Sangh values, rather than what the tribal customs or societies may have themselves valued. Infact, the very introduction of the idea of tribals being Hindus, is something which has been instituted by the RSS and other such organizations, which should be as strongly condemned, as of them being proselytized to Christianity without a genuine basis for changing the faith (which should be based on a change of heart at least, backed by substantial inner viewpoint). Thus, the RSS is mostly spreading their ideology rather than improving the capabilities of the tribals, which could have helped them to lead lives the tribals value (not what the RSS values, the Hindutva way of life). But then, for some people, it's very difficult to accept and digest it. Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 21:55:34 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:25:34 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908100251m61055704t1d54be26379d0bd8@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908100331n1c28c00ehd849fbf88e866741@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Taha My concern is not so much with that RSS hates Muslims or not, but that RSS is not indulging in a public debate about its own ideology, which is uncompromisable for itself. Any ideology or principle, especially for an organization which calls itself as one working in social and cultural fields, must be based on actually promoting or understanding those aspects. But the RSS neither understands the social field nor the cultural field. In their view, culture is stagnant and there can't be any additions to it. In particular, there are some pretty weird (and laughable) views regarding Indian culture being 'mahaan' and 'great' before the Islamic rule came to India. The styles of architecture which got developed around this period, the introduction of Urdu in the Indian culture, the idea of tolerance, or the ideas of the middle path and its importance stressed by later rulers, or the importance of faith, is something which the RSS seems to have lost in the path of understanding Indian culture and its progress under the 'Islamic' rule of India. (In addition to music and various other cultural progress which happened during this time. I am particularly partial towards music here because I have learnt classical music in some detail, and some of the best maestros of classical music were born in this time, such as Tansen, Baiju Bawra, Tansen's guru Haridas jee and so on). As for social field, the less said the better. The ideal should be to improve the capabilities of the people, and fighting for the cause of providing freedoms and rights to people, as I said in my previous mail, with the objective of ensuring that people are able to lead lives in ways they value. The Sangh would instead like people to lead lives as it values, which is a complete mockery of the people's rights. Infact, going by the majoritarian perspective of the RSS and the Sangh, resources would be looted from minorities through constant pogroms (termed riots in media later) and genocides, till they have nothing left, and 'social betterment' has been attained. As Sen himself says ' What a wonderful chain, in the majoritarian perspective, of social betterment!' (of course this is applied to a different situation by Sen, but I feel it suits just fine here as well). I don't expect it to happen, but if it can, the RSS should seriously consider whether its ideological roots are just enough to actually serve the people at all. Otherwise such kind of 'good' services as those during war times or during crisis times will be no substitute for wrong actions committed, which may be few and far, but of devastative impact on individuals across different regions and societies. Regards Rakesh From indersalim at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 22:21:27 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:21:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on In-Reply-To: References: <625900.47326.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <809FC697-1125-42C2-8BA2-A7E5E83E4EB5@sarai.net> Message-ID: <47e122a70908100951y9577032oc42b37b8103c5f23@mail.gmail.com> “No one in Kashmir lives under any illusion that they will have their own army--what for?” The above line by Mr. Junaid is a real find, a jem like, in the dust of Kashmir discussion so far, and results are before us. Mr. Kshmendra who out rightly dismissed Dr. Shapiro’s essay suddenly found Junaid’s response ‘ a very sensitive and thought provoking’. I guess, it is lines like these which will bring more supporters to Kashmir cause. And I quote Junaid again “Kashmiri resistance needs to move ten steps if it wants its well-wishers to move one.” Right now, it seems, those (supporters like us ) who are living outside Kashmir (including Dr. Shapiro ) are moving ten steps and the players on the ground ( Azadi leaders) are moving one. I am saying this because, there are yet no signals from the resistance camp(s) to declare the agenda on the lines Dr. Shapiro mentioned in his ideal state, which, I guess all of us dream about. But, as Junaid too somewhere talked about a need to underplay the ‘”glorious past “ if “azadi” which resembles’ Liberty' on the battle field is to be followed, because it is the ‘ the present’ of our beings what finally matters , and perhaps we are all about the “always-to-come , in a Derridian sense.”.. So, things don’t come to a full stop here. I believe, even if an independent Kashmir is another Islamic state, we all may support it even then. Yes, as I said earlier, people like me ( sort queer ) will find it difficult to live in Kashmir, ( comperatively outside Kashmir is freer as Junaid said ) if the constitution of a new Kashmir finds inspiration from Islamic sacred texts. Nothing wrong for the masses, if they approve it, but in that case, friends of Kashmir like me have no choice but to engage ourselves with the saner part of that artists/poets/intellectual community which is presently opposed to a new free Kashmir based on some ideology. So, in this sense, I am not too worried about Dr. Shapiro’s pointed, out of place criticism, ‘”cultural annihilation”’ by Indian rule in Kashmir. So naturally, Kashmiri pandits, Sikhs, homosexual, prostitutes, Shias , queers, etc wont be part of that new free state, which we need not regret, because if Majority of Kashmiris are ready to celebrate minus these riders then we too may support. Then perhaps, we will do the same what we are doing right now. Talk and talk to the people and about the people who automatically will find meaning in Dr. Shapiro’s agenda for a multicultural free society based on ethics and new ways of living. It is here, i feel compelled to think about the ways which Socrates employed: talking to the other, to discover questions within questions, which perhaps, ultimately leads an individual to that ( hysterical ) KNOW THY SELF. He had the luxury of a direct contact with the players of the state, we have the written word, which has both merits and demerits. Let us see which ‘performances’ in future are willing to absorb our thoughts in words, which are somehow woven with what Socrates was intensely engaged… So, it is about us in the final analyses. It is about me, who knows that the world is in great stress, as Foucault too feels that human beings are hastening to bring a quick end to this world. For example, right now, sadly, we have no space for glorious Cheetah in India So, I believe, a free mind should not oppose ‘the Azadi’ sentiment, or something similar to that, even if it is based a false promise of a state based on ethics and multicultural open society etc. We need to develop a habit to give away things which we possess so dearly. In this case India should throw away her obsessions of Kashmir and face the chaos left behind. In a stranger sense, we will notice that modern world can not be controlled in a china-wall like strucure as in the past, but in future the boarders may become meaningless with a demand for more and more human mobility. That is sheer optimism as well, if we underestimate the growing number of Surveillance Systems around us Right now, no body is perfect in a perfect country. Let us imagine: a new Kashmir, even if imperfect, as a dream, and dreams are always different from reality. But it is our birth right to dream… With love is On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 11:03 PM, Junaid wrote: > Dear Shuddha, > > Thank you for your warm words, and also for bringing alive a previously > discussed set of issues that a posible freedom charter must address. As I > have always maintained I strongly agree with all the points you > have reiterated in your post. > > Also, wherever I discussed these issues in Kashmir, I was met with a > positive response. It may not be a generalised phenomenon, but gives me a > lot of hope. No one in Kashmir lives under any illusion that they will have > their own army--what for? On many other issues listed in your post it > is quite possible to provoke debates and make progress. And I think the > Kashmiri society has in it elements that can support and sustain the > creation of a more hospitable, a more sensitive, and a more just society. > > But when I say the military occupation leaves no time to ponder over these > questions, I also mean space. Occupation has shrunk public space in Kashmir. > The frenetic constancy and the extremely disruptive nature of this regime > makes it very very difficult for people--even intellectuals--to sustain such > debates. Yet, I agree, that Kashmiris have to find ways to do this. Despite > the crushing architecture of occupation Kashmiris must find cracks and > crevices where these issues can be articulated and made an organic part of > their resistance. > > I, however, believe that many of us who live outside Kashmir, or are > relatively freer, need to have a pragmatic approach toward the resistance. > Most of us may be well-intentioned but when it comes to lending actual > solidarity to the Kashmiris we begin to ask them to first achieve the Ideal > before any support could be extended. We trenchantly criticise a Kashmiri > protestor for not simultaneously raising the issues we have been talking > about while he is battling soldiers attacking his home.  At many times, it > reduces to asking Kashmiris to resist within a prescribed norm of > decency. We feel no actual sympathy for the bearded protestor for perhaps he > represents to us everything we abhor. > > And then there are those of us, who have extremely stringent standards of > what constitutes a legitimate, justified resistance--where abberations in > the resistance are turned into its dominant feature, while the structurally > violent nature of the occupation becomes aberations that can be improved. > (For Kashmir, it means making its resistance absolutely contextless, while > Indian actions get overcontextualised). > > We must find a way in which we can help raise issues of actual liberation > while not compromising the struggle against occupation. Otherwise, > we inadvertently, become complicit in the occupation itself. > > But, yes, I do reaffirm that the Kashmiri resistance needs to move ten steps > if it wants its well-wishers to move one. > Junaid > > > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > >>  Dear Junaid, >> >> Thank you for an excellent and thoughtful post ! A sea change from the >> usual rhetorical grandstanding on Kashmir that we have become accustomed to >> on this list. It is the articulation of expressions like this in public fora >> that I think can help lay the foundations of a better tomorrow for Kashmir, >> and for all of South Asia. >> >> You say - "It can sound funny when people ask "Would gay people have >> their rights in an independent Kashmir?" or "Would minorities be not >> only protected but have equal rights as the majorities?," when the people >> these questions are asked of don't even know if *they* have a right to life >> (with dignity) in Kashmir, when the rigorously grinding everyday life under >> the military occupation doesn't even allow its people a chance to >> ponder upon their situation. Yet, at some stage or the other, if >> solidarities are to be built, if new alliances are to be created, if the >> Azadi in the real sense has to be achieved, these questions have to find >> some answers in Kashmir's resistance struggle." >> >> I both agree with you and differ with you on this formulation. I agree that >> "if new alliances are to be created, if the Azadi in the real sense has to >> be achieved, these questions have to find some answers in Kashmir's >> resistance struggle." But I do not think that these questions can be put off >> till a hypothetical 'some stage' in the struggle. I do not think these >> questions are more important than the goal of ending the occupation, but I >> do not think they are less important either. And I also do not believe that >> there is any contradiction in holding on to both desires (to end the >> occupation and to voice these concerns), simultaneously. >> >> I believe that these questions have an urgency, and that they actually in >> some ways subtly determine the destiny of the struggle for peace and >> freedom, in a real and substantive sense. Time and time again, movements >> that have thought of themselves as 'liberatory' or 'emancipatory' have >> fallen into the trap of creating a hierarchy of " lesser and greater" goals. >> Many Communists believed that freedom was a luxury that would have to wait >> till the goal of Justice was achieved, and this ensured that they were able >> to achieve neither freedom, nor justice, wherever they came to power. >> Zionists believed that the question of creating a relationship with the >> people of Palestine was a lesser priority to the immediate (and very real) >> suffering of Jewish people in Europe and elsewhere, and as a result, they >> created a state which is in effect a huge prison camp (both for themselves, >> and for their 'other'). Indian nationalists subordinated the question of >> thinking about society and culture to the 'goal' of political independence, >> and when they did, the came up with remarkably un-imaginative and repressive >> ideas, and the result is plain for all of us to see. >> >> I believe that it is absolutely vital, that especially when people are >> facing, as you say, the 'rigorous grind of everyday life' under an >> occupation, that intellectuals and activists, and ordinary people are >> brought face to face with the consequences of not paying attention to basic >> and fundamental questions. The 'strategic pragmatism' that many political >> activists seek to impose as a code of silence, in the end, becomes the >> foundation of future oppression. I also do not believe that these questions >> 'take care of themselves' due to the innate character or a people, or the >> broad, inclusive nature of their inherited traditions. Character and >> tradition are fragile, easily twisted. The cultivation of liberty is a >> daily, quotidian, modest, but vital task, and cannot be left to the >> abstraction of a people's character. Every assumption of innocence on behalf >> of the oppressed, is a sure condition of its opposite, when the oppressed >> find the chance to be oppressors. >> >> I totally agree with you however, when you say - "Perhaps the best way to >> rebuild bridges is to unconditionally accept and acknowledge each other's >> pain and sufferring. That Pandits accept and acknowledge the Kashmir's need >> to be independent, and Muslims accept the right of Pandit's to live with >> dignity, security and as full members of our nation (even if they don't >> support or participate in Kashmir's freedom struggle). >> >> Along with other minorities Kashmiri Pandits have the first right to ask >> of Kashmiri resistance to become sensitive to and acknowledge their needs >> of security and dignity. If the future independent Kashmir has to move in >> pursuit of the goals that we have laid out then the time to intervene >> is now!" >> >> Yes, the time to intervene is now! >> >> I would reiterate that the cogent expression of a 'Freedom Charter' for >> Kashmir would be a great step forward. We have discussed this (though not on >> public fora) some months before, but in the light of Professor Shapiro's >> text, it might be worthwhile to recall the substantive points of that >> discussion for the benefit of the Reader List. I hope you will permit me to >> take the liberty of posting salient points from an earlier round of >> correspondence. >> >> It would be excellent if a publicly circulated charter for a Kashmir that >> is truly 'Azaad' were to state that : >> >>  1. it would be a state that would provide equal rights to the members of >> all kinds of minorities, (ethnic, religious, social, sexual and other), >> >> 2. that it would harbour peaceful intentions towards all neighbouring >> peoples (in India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Tibet,  Central Asia and China) >> and that it would declare Kashmir as a demilitarized zone and as a sanctuary >> of peace >> >> 3.  that it would take the bold step of doing away with the obscenity of a >> standing army >> >> 4. that it would welcome all displaced Kashmiris (including, not only the >> Kashmiri Pandits, but also those who were forced to migrate to Pakistan >> Occupied Kashmir)  and that it calls for an open dialogue with responsible >> and peace-loving representatives of all displaced kashmiri communities >> >> 5. that it would set up a 'truth and reconciliation' commission to help >> account for and address the years of violence in Kashmir >> >> 5. that it would treat with respect, pride  and affection the unique >> cultural heritage and history of the Kashmir valley, and the contributions >> made by Buddists, Hindus, Muslims and others to this heritage down the >> centuries, >> >> 6. and that it would take a special care to safeguard the unique biological >> and natural heritage of the mountains, rivers, forests, lakes and meadows of >> Kashmir for the sake of all humanity >> >> If a document that spelt out these points clearly, while outlining the >> moves that can be made towards a free plebiscite under international >> auspices were to be clearly spelt out today, it can make a real and >> fundamental difference to the destiny of the movement in Kashmir. The old >> preconditions for a plebisicte that were articulated by the UN are no longer >> relevant to the situation. The terms of reference have to expand a choice >> beyond the choice between accession to either India or Pakistan, and BOTH >> Indian and Pakistani military personnel should be confined to barracks, or >> better still, asked to vacate the territories occupied by them in the >> disputed state. >> >> Such a document could say that the continuing occupation of Kashmir, >> especially by the Indian armed forces and state paramilitary and police >> forces, and the continued existence of laws such as the AFSPA and the lack >> of responsible international mediation is a stumbling block in the >> realization of these demands, and that these conditions be transformed, the >> occupation be lifeted, so that a free, demilitarized and peaceful Kashmir >> (with no armies) can come into being. >> >> I think that the important point is not whether or not this is a >> 'pragmatic' and 'achievable' set of goals, but that it sets the standards >> and the criteria by which 'prgamatic' moves may be judged and evaluated. If >> people (be they in Kashmir, or in India, or in Pakistan) object to the goals >> of such a charter, they will only reveal their true character. >> >> For all you know, all the reactionaries in India, Pakistan and Kashmir may >> be together on this, and all others (cutting across 'national' and >> 'identitarian' lines) may be arrayed against them. >> best, >> >> Shuddha >> >> >>  Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS >> Raqs Media Collective >> shuddha at sarai.net >> www.sarai.net >> www.raqsmediacollective.net >> >> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From javedmasoo at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 22:25:21 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:25:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40908100810j766969d0x1b464193a0ab87b3@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560908100251m61055704t1d54be26379d0bd8@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908100331n1c28c00ehd849fbf88e866741@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908100810j766969d0x1b464193a0ab87b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Taha and others I actually don't care about RSS hating or loving any one. My main aim of this post was to show how our judiciary and police is so biased. On one hand so many Muslim youth are being arrested and killed in encounter deaths in the name of terrorism, but the accused of the Malegaon blast are relieved on flimsy grounds. I remember that even an investigative journalist like Praveen Swami (who keeps inventing new intricate modus operandi of "Indian Mujahideen" and so on) accepted in his rare essay that the Hindu terrorism exists and the Malegaon blast was just a tip of the iceberg. So, my question is: why this prejudice by the judiciary? J On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Taha Mehmood<2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: > Dear Rajen, > > I think you are absolutely correct. RSS do not hate Muslims. RSS is a > mere name of an organization. A name is incapable of showing any > emotion against or for any social group. > > However, lets us revisit some of the pearls of wisdom which were > uttered by great thinkers, which many contemporary members of RSS > simply love to read. > > I would like to regard Veer Vinayak Damodar Savarkar as one of them > and I am sure you will join me, in this acknowledgment. > > This is what  Veer Vinayak Damodar Savarkar, had to say about so > called, 'Religious Bigotry of Indian Muslims'- > > " It is useless to declare only the Muslim league as communal. It is > not news, it is a reality, that the entire Muslim community is embed > in the spirit of communalism' > >  [ Rana, B.S. 2004. Veer Vinayak Damodar Savarkar, p127 ] > > Then there was venerable Guruji. Whose love for Muslims was legendary. > This is what Madhav Sadashiv Ggolwalkar aka Guruji had to say about > followers of Islam in India: > > They [Muslims] have also developed a feeling of identification with > the enemies of this land. They look to some foreign lands as their > holy places. They call them selves Sheikhs and Sayeds...They still > think they have come here to conquer and establish their kingdoms. So > we see it not only as a change of faith and as a change of national > identity. What else it is, if not treason, to join the camp of enemy, > leaving the mother nation in the lurch. > > [words of Guruji- as cited in, Basu, T. 1993. Khaki Shorts and Saffron > Flags. p28 ] > > Here's another account of goodness of Gurujee with respect to Muslims. > I take the honor and privilege of citing the text below, directly from > the official website of the BJP. We all know of course, how members of > the BJP has time and again shown to every one, how much they care > deeply about Muslims. The text below relates to what many members of > the BJP like to call its core philosophy, which goes by a rather fuzzy > name called- Integral Humanism. > > The text pertains to a lecture delivered to many thousands of patriots > by venerable Pandit Deendayal Upadhyaya, on April 22-25, 1965. Here > Panditjee, is trying to tell us about, distinctions about individual > versus society and as a way of illustration, cites a conversation > which, according to Upadhyaya jee,  happened between Shri Vinobaji and > the Sar Sanghachalak of Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, Shri Guruji, > > -Let me give you an illustration. Once during a conversation between > Shri Vinobaji and the Sar Sanghachalak of Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, > Shri Guruji, a question arose as to where the modes of thinking of > Hindus and Muslims differ. Guruji said to Vinobaji that there are good > and bad people in every society. There can be found honest and good > people in Hindus as well as in Muslims. Similarly rascals can be seen > in both the societies. No particular society has a monopoly of > goodness. However, it is observed that Hindus even if they are rascals > in individual life, when they come together in a group, they always > think of good things. On the other hand when two Muslims come > together, they propose and approve of things which they themselves in > their individual capacity would not even think of. They start thinking > in an altogether different way. This is an everyday experience. > Vinobaji admitted that there was truth in this observation but had no > reasons to explain it.- > > [ Upadhyaya, D.D. 1965. integral Humanism. Individual versus Society. > url-  http://www.bjp.org/content/view/444/396/  ] > > Such was the clarity of TRUTH that Vinobaji did not even think about > reasons for explaining it. > > Javed, considering the above thoughts, I sincerely feel you must > reconsider your comments. Rajen is absolutely correct in my opinion. > RSS does not hate Muslims or Christians. People associated with the > RSS merely think that Musilms are traitors, Muslims are communal, > Muslims are divisive as a community. But of course that does not mean, > they HATE Muslims. Hate, I think, is a particularly strong word to > define a relationship you see. For the time being, I think, I would > rather go by Karan Johar's insightful words, 'kuch rishtyon ka naam > nahi hota, woh bas hoteain hain' > > Warm regards > > Taha > From murali.chalam at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 22:28:43 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:28:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908100251m61055704t1d54be26379d0bd8@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908100331n1c28c00ehd849fbf88e866741@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908100958o2757c6c2hafc3448e90085495@mail.gmail.com> Promoting an ideology or principle is like marketing a product which is required only for a product whicgh is new. A public debate is required only when there is a dispute. Promotion is the responsibility of a marketng organization like the seventh day advantist. RSS may not have understood the social or the cultural field, may be it requires the explanation from people who may have understood it to say RSS have not understood. It has become a trend, fashion, fad to say the Indian tradition is old fashioned etc. etc. May be to project an image of ultimate secularism. Tollerance and Islam, this is something which evryone will take it with a bag full of salt. So successful has been Macaulay to have such views that the objective has been served. Regards, V Murali On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 9:55 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Taha > > My concern is not so much with that RSS hates Muslims or not, but that RSS > is not indulging in a public debate about its own ideology, which is > uncompromisable for itself. Any ideology or principle, especially for an > organization which calls itself as one working in social and cultural > fields, must be based on actually promoting or understanding those aspects. > But the RSS neither understands the social field nor the cultural field. In > their view, culture is stagnant and there can't be any additions to it. In > particular, there are some pretty weird (and laughable) views regarding > Indian culture being 'mahaan' and 'great' before the Islamic rule came to > India. > > The styles of architecture which got developed around this period, the > introduction of Urdu in the Indian culture, the idea of tolerance, or the > ideas of the middle path and its importance stressed by later rulers, or > the > importance of faith, is something which the RSS seems to have lost in the > path of understanding Indian culture and its progress under the 'Islamic' > rule of India. (In addition to music and various other cultural progress > which happened during this time. I am particularly partial towards music > here because I have learnt classical music in some detail, and some of the > best maestros of classical music were born in this time, such as Tansen, > Baiju Bawra, Tansen's guru Haridas jee and so on). > > As for social field, the less said the better. The ideal should be to > improve the capabilities of the people, and fighting for the cause of > providing freedoms and rights to people, as I said in my previous mail, > with > the objective of ensuring that people are able to lead lives in ways they > value. The Sangh would instead like people to lead lives as it values, > which > is a complete mockery of the people's rights. Infact, going by the > majoritarian perspective of the RSS and the Sangh, resources would be > looted > from minorities through constant pogroms (termed riots in media later) and > genocides, till they have nothing left, and 'social betterment' has been > attained. As Sen himself says ' What a wonderful chain, in the majoritarian > perspective, of social betterment!' (of course this is applied to a > different situation by Sen, but I feel it suits just fine here as well). > > I don't expect it to happen, but if it can, the RSS should seriously > consider whether its ideological roots are just enough to actually serve > the > people at all. Otherwise such kind of 'good' services as those during war > times or during crisis times will be no substitute for wrong actions > committed, which may be few and far, but of devastative impact on > individuals across different regions and societies. > > Regards > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From murali.chalam at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 22:32:05 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:32:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908100251m61055704t1d54be26379d0bd8@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908100331n1c28c00ehd849fbf88e866741@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908100810j766969d0x1b464193a0ab87b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908101002x698d621cm487a41db8443c0c3@mail.gmail.com> Jinnah was and is responsible for the current state of affairs and I hope you would go into the statements of the creator of Pakistan. Regards, V Murali On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 10:25 PM, Javed wrote: > Dear Taha and others > I actually don't care about RSS hating or loving any one. My main aim > of this post was to show how our judiciary and police is so biased. On > one hand so many Muslim youth are being arrested and killed in > encounter deaths in the name of terrorism, but the accused of the > Malegaon blast are relieved on flimsy grounds. I remember that even an > investigative journalist like Praveen Swami (who keeps inventing new > intricate modus operandi of "Indian Mujahideen" and so on) accepted in > his rare essay that the Hindu terrorism exists and the Malegaon blast > was just a tip of the iceberg. > > So, my question is: why this prejudice by the judiciary? > > J > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Taha > Mehmood<2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: > > Dear Rajen, > > > > I think you are absolutely correct. RSS do not hate Muslims. RSS is a > > mere name of an organization. A name is incapable of showing any > > emotion against or for any social group. > > > > However, lets us revisit some of the pearls of wisdom which were > > uttered by great thinkers, which many contemporary members of RSS > > simply love to read. > > > > I would like to regard Veer Vinayak Damodar Savarkar as one of them > > and I am sure you will join me, in this acknowledgment. > > > > This is what Veer Vinayak Damodar Savarkar, had to say about so > > called, 'Religious Bigotry of Indian Muslims'- > > > > " It is useless to declare only the Muslim league as communal. It is > > not news, it is a reality, that the entire Muslim community is embed > > in the spirit of communalism' > > > > [ Rana, B.S. 2004. Veer Vinayak Damodar Savarkar, p127 ] > > > > Then there was venerable Guruji. Whose love for Muslims was legendary. > > This is what Madhav Sadashiv Ggolwalkar aka Guruji had to say about > > followers of Islam in India: > > > > They [Muslims] have also developed a feeling of identification with > > the enemies of this land. They look to some foreign lands as their > > holy places. They call them selves Sheikhs and Sayeds...They still > > think they have come here to conquer and establish their kingdoms. So > > we see it not only as a change of faith and as a change of national > > identity. What else it is, if not treason, to join the camp of enemy, > > leaving the mother nation in the lurch. > > > > [words of Guruji- as cited in, Basu, T. 1993. Khaki Shorts and Saffron > > Flags. p28 ] > > > > Here's another account of goodness of Gurujee with respect to Muslims. > > I take the honor and privilege of citing the text below, directly from > > the official website of the BJP. We all know of course, how members of > > the BJP has time and again shown to every one, how much they care > > deeply about Muslims. The text below relates to what many members of > > the BJP like to call its core philosophy, which goes by a rather fuzzy > > name called- Integral Humanism. > > > > The text pertains to a lecture delivered to many thousands of patriots > > by venerable Pandit Deendayal Upadhyaya, on April 22-25, 1965. Here > > Panditjee, is trying to tell us about, distinctions about individual > > versus society and as a way of illustration, cites a conversation > > which, according to Upadhyaya jee, happened between Shri Vinobaji and > > the Sar Sanghachalak of Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, Shri Guruji, > > > > -Let me give you an illustration. Once during a conversation between > > Shri Vinobaji and the Sar Sanghachalak of Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, > > Shri Guruji, a question arose as to where the modes of thinking of > > Hindus and Muslims differ. Guruji said to Vinobaji that there are good > > and bad people in every society. There can be found honest and good > > people in Hindus as well as in Muslims. Similarly rascals can be seen > > in both the societies. No particular society has a monopoly of > > goodness. However, it is observed that Hindus even if they are rascals > > in individual life, when they come together in a group, they always > > think of good things. On the other hand when two Muslims come > > together, they propose and approve of things which they themselves in > > their individual capacity would not even think of. They start thinking > > in an altogether different way. This is an everyday experience. > > Vinobaji admitted that there was truth in this observation but had no > > reasons to explain it.- > > > > [ Upadhyaya, D.D. 1965. integral Humanism. Individual versus Society. > > url- http://www.bjp.org/content/view/444/396/ ] > > > > Such was the clarity of TRUTH that Vinobaji did not even think about > > reasons for explaining it. > > > > Javed, considering the above thoughts, I sincerely feel you must > > reconsider your comments. Rajen is absolutely correct in my opinion. > > RSS does not hate Muslims or Christians. People associated with the > > RSS merely think that Musilms are traitors, Muslims are communal, > > Muslims are divisive as a community. But of course that does not mean, > > they HATE Muslims. Hate, I think, is a particularly strong word to > > define a relationship you see. For the time being, I think, I would > > rather go by Karan Johar's insightful words, 'kuch rishtyon ka naam > > nahi hota, woh bas hoteain hain' > > > > Warm regards > > > > Taha > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 23:15:18 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:15:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908101002x698d621cm487a41db8443c0c3@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560908100251m61055704t1d54be26379d0bd8@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908100331n1c28c00ehd849fbf88e866741@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908100810j766969d0x1b464193a0ab87b3@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908101002x698d621cm487a41db8443c0c3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Murali jee Even the launch and supply of certain products can bring about a public debate, such as the distress sale of houses (after say riots or pogroms), or the sale of commodities (in particular, say the sale of Tata Nano, which can contribute in a vast manner to pollution, or the kind of subsidies granted to it), or other things as well. And whether a dispute exists or not, depends on the kind of value systems one wishes to look at. From the Hindutva based system or simply an economic system which only considers matters of personal income as of utmost importance, there may not be any angle from which a dispute exists. But from different other systems (say secularist, rights-based, capabilities approach of Sen or others), there could be disputes as well. It is up to you or others individually to take their own side of the divide. I have already taken mine. Most importantly, the claims which RSS professes, preaches and asks to practice are issues which have to be substantially debated in public, and then citizens should be allowed to choose as they wish. Otherwise, we will simply witness more pub attacks of the kind seen in Mangalore. If the RSS feels that women going to pubs is wrong, it should initiate a discussion and debate on the same in public, otherwise people who believe in similar ideologies, even if belonging to different organizations, would take law and order in their own hands and indulge in similar theatrics (irrespective of whether law does take its just course or not). And as for tolerance, Akbar can be considered to be the second-most tolerating king of India after Ashoka. Of course, it may be difficult for you to digest that, but this is what Akbar said in the year of 1591-1592, when the Muslim Hijra calendar completed its 1000 years: (I directly quote from Sen's book 'Development As Freedom' again for this) 'If a Hindu, when a child or otherwise, had been made a Muslim against his will, he is to be allowed, if he pleased, to go back to the religion of his fathers' The strangest part is that Akbar actually argued for the 'forcible repatriation of a young Hindu woman to her father's family if she had abandoned it in pursuit of a Muslim lover.' And this stand is similar to VHP's stand that Muslim men must not be friends or lovers or husbands of Hindu women. Great similarities indeed!! (And hence Akbar was even tolerant of VHP's view of today. Of course, Sen is critical of this argument, and so am I. ) Of course, there were other kings as well who did practice toleration, though they used religion in their political affairs also as a policy of appeasement, to please the Muslim clerics. Of course, the clerics also accused them of the same, like now some of the people accuse the 'secularist' parties. (I am not denying that claim, but a large part of the claim seems to be far-fetched). I do not deny the claims of destruction of temples on grand scale or forced conversion of Hindus, but I can't accept those to be the criterion for mistrust of today's Muslims living across the world and in the Indian state. Neither can I accept that contention that Muslims deserve a similar treatment as to what some of their ancestors did. It's like saying that the Hindus should be bombed for the heinous crimes committed by VHP and Bajrang Dal or other Hindu organizations across various riots. Regards Rakesh From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Mon Aug 10 23:58:56 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:28:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Imran Hashmi takes a U turn Message-ID: <811826.2924.qm@web94709.mail.in2.yahoo.com> The clipping made a sad read. Was reminded of the same agony muslims r facing in MUmbai, interestingly many other top-shots complained of same discrimination within Mumbai, this is another example of conflict becoming clear and copming to forefront, as wpould be rare in non-riot affected villages. City based insecurities lead to this..... The actor who has done many off-beat, bold roles Stood up, with people like Srk denying them as publicity stunts. Afraid of thus loosing his appeal towards majority, he took a softer course....... What he actually said was he was aware that this discrimination was both wayed and he has no allegations against any single community........... All was that wanted to buy a house, in front of minority forum. Imraan's U-turn, is India's shame. I hope he does not withdraw his complaint, and sees an end to this logic of discrimination, which exists solely on itself. How does Muslim make up differ from Hindus. I can not understand. Bravo-Imraan! See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Tue Aug 11 00:33:43 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:03:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn Message-ID: <558780.49599.qm@web94706.mail.in2.yahoo.com> ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: subhrodip sengupta To: Readers list Yousuf Sarai. Sent: Monday, 10 August, 2009 11:58:56 PM Subject: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn The clipping made a sad read. Was reminded of the same agony muslims r facing in MUmbai, interestingly many other top-shots complained of same discrimination within Mumbai, this is another example of conflict becoming clear and copming to forefront, as wpould be rare in non-riot affected villages. City based insecurities lead to this..... The actor who has done many off-beat, bold roles stood up, with people like Srk denying them as publicity stunts. Afraid of thus loosing his appeal towards majority, he took a softer course....... What he actually said was he was aware that this discrimination was both wayed and he has no allegations against any single community.......... All was that wanted to buy a house, in front of minority forum. Imraan's U-turn, is India's shame. I hope he does not withdraw his complaint, and sees an end to this logic of discrimination, which exists solely on itself. How does Muslim make up differ from Hindus. I can not understand. Bravo-Imraan! ________________________________ Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more. Click here. See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Aug 11 04:26:51 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:56:51 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908100251m61055704t1d54be26379d0bd8@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908100331n1c28c00ehd849fbf88e866741@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908100810j766969d0x1b464193a0ab87b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40908101556qc23aa0fqeb71ac78a8f12eae@mail.gmail.com> Dear Javed, Dear Rakesh ( and dear all ) Of course I think your views are absolutely pertinent. Of course there are certain individuals within certain organizations who are not playing a role which they are supposed to play with a lot of conviction and self belief. Of course things are not going the way they should be. Therefore of course all these out of character performances are taking a toll on the overall image organizations concerned. It does not matter whether players in question relate to our judiciary, Indian police force or even so called political or quasi political organizations. However, I wonder what else can be done about it- apart from dishing out -blame- arguments? That does not, for a second, mean that, -blame- arguments should not be dished out. Not at all!! Far from that, I wonder, what other types of conceptual handles could one pull out, in addition to -blame- arguments, to maybe, develop a more systemic critique of the failure of players, processes and practices related to a normative functioning of these organizations? Warm regards Taha From asad_abbasi at hotmail.com Tue Aug 11 06:42:49 2009 From: asad_abbasi at hotmail.com (asad abbasi) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 01:12:49 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Tales From Rural Pakistan, Lived and Shared Message-ID: Dear All, Mueenuddin , in his book, talks about some basic issues that surround rural lives in Pakistan. His stories though fiction are true in essence. He is a landlord but tries to distinguish himself from the stereotypes. He says that now landowners have become politically powerful and so have increase their abuses. Will his writings have any impact, only time can tell. To say the least, it is very encouraging to see people such as Mueenuddin discussing these issues. Here is a article taking about Mueenuddin's life as he sees it. How Feudalism is still strong, how extremists are the new hooligans, trying to inflict their approach on other Pakistanis. Regards, Asad IN the steamy heat of central Pakistan, a novelist is writing. He describes a hidden world of servants and their feudal masters, the powerlessness of poverty and the corruption that glues it all together. These lives, tucked away in the mango groves, grand estates and mud-walled villages of rural Pakistan, are rarely seen by outsiders. But the writer, Daniyal Mueenuddin, a Pakistani-American who lives here, has brought them into focus in a collection of short stories, “In Other Rooms, Other Wonders,” published this year. They are intimate portraits that raise some of the biggest questions in Pakistan today. Why does a small elite still control vast swaths of land more than 60 years after Pakistan became a nation? How long will landlords continue to control the law and the lives of the peasants on their land in the same way British rulers did before them? Mr. Mueenuddin, 46, offers a richly observed landscape that is written with the tenderness and familiarity of an old friend. The estate Mr. Mueenuddin lives on in southern Punjab, Pakistan’s biggest province, belonged to his father, a prominent Pakistani civil servant, and he used to come here as a boy. His parents met in the United States in the 1950s. His father was negotiating a treaty, and his mother was a young reporter for The Washington Post. They later moved to Pakistan, but the country proved difficult with its web of expectations and relationships, and she took her sons back to the United States when Mr. Mueenuddin was 13. Memories of this land stayed with him, however, and he returned after college in 1987 as an aspiring writer. He found upon arrival a decaying, colonial-era system, whose owners — his own family — had long stopped paying attention. The farm’s profits were declining and its borders were shrinking: The managers were pilfering land and planting their own crops. “It was in their mouths when I pulled it out,” Mr. Mueenuddin said, speaking on the estate, where he now lives with his wife, who is Norwegian. Mr. Mueenuddin slowly became part of the changing Pakistan he wanted to capture in fiction. The managers were powerful when he arrived, and extracting them from the business of running the farm was a delicate procedure. He was alone, without a phone or the Internet. He slept with a gun and worried that his food might be poisoned. “It occurred to me that they could kill me,” he said. He began to assemble a team of people he trusted: a driver who, as a child, was his playmate, and the Koran instructor in the mosque, Hafiz Sahib, who had been low in the pecking order of the village but was honest. Slowly, he reclaimed the farm, which now does a brisk business in mangoes, sugar cane and cotton. IN person, Mr. Mueenuddin is more American than Pakistani. He speaks Urdu, the national language, but his frenetic energy and fast gait set him apart in this languid, sweltering land, where men walk with their bellies ahead of their torsos. His characters, however, are convincingly local: corrupt farm managers; conniving, spoiled children of wealthy landlords; and servant girls desperate to improve their station in life. The stories explore the power dynamic between servants and their masters. In one, a cunning young house servant, Husna, becomes the lover of an elderly landowner, K. K. Harouni, the patron who is present in many of the stories and is from the same class and generation as Mr. Mueenuddin’s father. She gradually improves her status through her connection to him, moving into better quarters and getting servants of her own, but is cruelly cast out when he dies. The final scene offers a view of just how precarious servants’ fates are. Confronted by the man’s manicured daughters who are evicting her, Husna blurts out: “You are important people, and I’m nothing and my family is nothing. I have to obey.” Mr. Mueenuddin is also a landlord, though he prefers not to think of himself that way. His family’s wealth started in the 18th century with his great-great-great-grandfather, who grew rich as the governor of Kashmir, a territory that is now disputed by India and Pakistan. “I’m not a landlord,” he said, cringing. “I hope I don’t act that way.” He argues that he is a farm manager whose business does well because he treats his workers fairly. He pays them $84 a month, triple the going rate, and instituted an American-style annual bonus system for managers. Last year, the most profitable producer on the farm received the equivalent of more than two years’ salary. That is unusual for Pakistan, where landlords rarely delve into the business of their farms in detail and workers are paid around $25 a month. “These guys don’t understand their own people,” Mr. Mueenuddin said of that class. “The hierarchy is so bred into them that they condescend to people.” BUT the cast of characters is changing, a shift that Mr. Mueenuddin’s prose captures. Farm managers, the most powerful servants, have now become part of politics in some places. The two brothers who rule Mr. Mueenuddin’s district are sons of a spiritual leader, who was not a wealthy man. But instead of making the system fairer, he says, they have seized their own chance to profit, perpetuating feudalism. Meanwhile, poverty has become more pronounced. Local residents now get only a few hours of electricity daily, down from around six several years ago, and with Pakistan’s exploding population, jobs are ever harder to find. “People are getting more and more desperate,” he said. In recent years, there has been another shift in society. Mullahs of the fundamentalist Deobandi school have grown powerful in southern Punjab, spreading an aggressive, anti-Shiite, antistate message during Friday sermons in the religious schools, or madrasas, that have proliferated since the 1980s. The spread has touched Mr. Mueenuddin. A religious group was building a mosque on the edge of his property, and one day a young man standing on its roof shouted at him, “The first thing you’ll know is when the bullet hits you in the forehead.” He ordered a wall erected along the property line. The religious extremists’ view of the world, Mr. Mueenuddin said, is not unlike that of the Utopians in W. H. Auden’s “Horae Canonicae,” whose rigid views of the perfect society, oblique references to Soviet Communism, are just as true today. “I find it scary that extremists in Pakistan are trying to force their rigid prescriptions down our throats,” Mr. Mueenuddin said, invoking a comparison with Stalin, who ruthlessly consolidated power by crushing any dissent. The Utopian, he said, quoting Auden, dreams of “some august day of outrage when hellikins cavort through ruined drawing-rooms and fish-wives intervene in the Chamber,” and for a time when “those he hates shall hate themselves instead.” But is the Pakistani elite in the same position as the Russian aristocracy before the revolution? “It’s something that keeps me awake at night,” Mr. Mueenuddin said. The fear recedes in daylight. It is unclear how strong the forces of extremism here are, and whether sweeping away the current order is among their aims. For the time being at least, the status quo seems likely to prevail. “I don’t think the guys I’m dealing with are thinking in revolutionary terms,” Mr. Mueenuddin said. “They’ve not gotten that far.” _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Messenger: Thanks for 10 great years—enjoy free winks and emoticons. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/ From murali.chalam at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 09:36:39 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:36:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908100251m61055704t1d54be26379d0bd8@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908100331n1c28c00ehd849fbf88e866741@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908100810j766969d0x1b464193a0ab87b3@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908101002x698d621cm487a41db8443c0c3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908102106g5defbdf1ya60501c204dda9f6@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh Ji, Can a FATWA declared by the Mullahs and clerics be subject to public debate.? Never and if anyone who does so is ostracized and some times goes missing. Some history on Akbar "When Rana Udai Singh refused to give Mewar Princess to Akbar, the furious emperor attacked the fort of Chitor, treacherously killed the generals Jail Mal & Patta, and ordered a general massacre in the fort -- which ceased ultimately only for lack of victims. Over 30,000 Hindus, who had taken refuge in the fort were slaughtered, according to Abul Fazl, and the looted sacred gold-threads of the butchered weighed over 200 Kgs. The 'slaughter', besides being vengeance, had the Mughal policy behind it: The greater the resistance, the greater the retaliation was the Mughal Rule, to strike terror in potential adversaries and cripple the Hindus' will to fight back. When Udai Sing's son Rana Pratap refused to be a 'puppet vassal' -- Akbar again invaded Mewar, inflicting terrible atrocities on the Mewaris. The dual policy of his towards Rajputs -- high rewards to the submissive vassals and 'relentless carnage' of those who opposed -- soon brought almost all Rajasthan under his control. For the survival of the citizens, the Hindu kings were forced to offer Princesses to the Mughal's Harem." The Seventh day Advantists are on a conversion spree. Please review the url to look at the poster which was put-up outside a sevent day advantist church. *"Advent Christian Church Building at Tiruvanmiyur. See the cloth poster displaying in Tamil ‘Christuva Brahmana Seva Samithy’*" The poster has been put up by* ‘Christuva Brahmana Seva Samithy’, *announcing that there is going to be a* ‘Kathaa Kaalakshepam’ *by* Poojyasri Bhagavatar Vedanaayakam Shastrikal on 8-8-2009 (Saturday) *at* 5 PM *at the* Advent Christian Church *premises. The main man behind this initiative is one*Sadhu Chellappa *who is endevouring to beat the conversion record of* St Francis Xavier (1605-1552) *in* *Goa* *and elsewhere in India in the 16th century,* Robert de Nobili (1577-1656) *in* *Madurai in the 17th century, *Fr Schwartz (1726-1798)* in Thanjavur District in the 18th Century and* Bishop Caldwell (1814-1891) *in* *Thirunelveli District in* *the 19th Century. What angered the enlightened Hindus of* Thiruvanmiyur *is that the* Advent Christian Church *is misusing the *name* (and of course caste!!!) and other symbols of the* Brahmin community *in order to use them as a ploy to mislead and deceive young Hindu men and women in general and* Brahmins* in particular, in order to *lure* them into the* commercial trap of treacherous missionary Christianity.* With such nefarious activities happenning, and the so called secular Govt. is silent, what do you expect. Regards, V MUrali On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 11:15 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Murali jee > > Even the launch and supply of certain products can bring about a public > debate, such as the distress sale of houses (after say riots or pogroms), or > the sale of commodities (in particular, say the sale of Tata Nano, which can > contribute in a vast manner to pollution, or the kind of subsidies granted > to it), or other things as well. And whether a dispute exists or not, > depends on the kind of value systems one wishes to look at. From the > Hindutva based system or simply an economic system which only considers > matters of personal income as of utmost importance, there may not be any > angle from which a dispute exists. But from different other systems (say > secularist, rights-based, capabilities approach of Sen or others), there > could be disputes as well. > > It is up to you or others individually to take their own side of the > divide. I have already taken mine. > > Most importantly, the claims which RSS professes, preaches and asks to > practice are issues which have to be substantially debated in public, and > then citizens should be allowed to choose as they wish. Otherwise, we will > simply witness more pub attacks of the kind seen in Mangalore. If the RSS > feels that women going to pubs is wrong, it should initiate a discussion and > debate on the same in public, otherwise people who believe in similar > ideologies, even if belonging to different organizations, would take law and > order in their own hands and indulge in similar theatrics (irrespective of > whether law does take its just course or not). > > And as for tolerance, Akbar can be considered to be the second-most > tolerating king of India after Ashoka. Of course, it may be difficult for > you to digest that, but this is what Akbar said in the year of 1591-1592, > when the Muslim Hijra calendar completed its 1000 years: (I directly quote > from Sen's book 'Development As Freedom' again for this) > > 'If a Hindu, when a child or otherwise, had been made a Muslim against his > will, he is to be allowed, if he pleased, to go back to the religion of his > fathers' > > The strangest part is that Akbar actually argued for the 'forcible > repatriation of a young Hindu woman to her father's family if she had > abandoned it in pursuit of a Muslim lover.' And this stand is similar to > VHP's stand that Muslim men must not be friends or lovers or husbands of > Hindu women. Great similarities indeed!! (And hence Akbar was even tolerant > of VHP's view of today. Of course, Sen is critical of this argument, and so > am I. ) > > Of course, there were other kings as well who did practice toleration, > though they used religion in their political affairs also as a policy of > appeasement, to please the Muslim clerics. Of course, the clerics also > accused them of the same, like now some of the people accuse the > 'secularist' parties. (I am not denying that claim, but a large part of the > claim seems to be far-fetched). > > I do not deny the claims of destruction of temples on grand scale or forced > conversion of Hindus, but I can't accept those to be the criterion for > mistrust of today's Muslims living across the world and in the Indian state. > Neither can I accept that contention that Muslims deserve a similar > treatment as to what some of their ancestors did. It's like saying that the > Hindus should be bombed for the heinous crimes committed by VHP and Bajrang > Dal or other Hindu organizations across various riots. > > Regards > > Rakesh > > > > > > From murali.chalam at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 09:51:30 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:51:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn In-Reply-To: <558780.49599.qm@web94706.mail.in2.yahoo.com> References: <558780.49599.qm@web94706.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908102121l1aaeebe9h667234948d9261a2@mail.gmail.com> Every time the so called victim, brings about the minority issue and our pseudo-secularists immediately highlight the event I hope everybody would recall the statement of Azharuddin after he was convicted of match fixing. This clinging to harassment of minorities is nothing new. Regards, V Murali On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 12:33 AM, subhrodip sengupta < sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in> wrote: > > > > > ----- Forwarded Message ---- > From: subhrodip sengupta > To: Readers list Yousuf Sarai. > Sent: Monday, 10 August, 2009 11:58:56 PM > Subject: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn > > > The clipping made a sad read. Was reminded of the same agony muslims r > facing in MUmbai, interestingly many other top-shots complained of same > discrimination within Mumbai, this is another example of conflict becoming > clear and copming to forefront, as wpould be rare in non-riot affected > villages. City based insecurities lead to this..... > The actor who has done many off-beat, bold roles stood up, with people like > Srk denying them as publicity stunts. Afraid of thus loosing his appeal > towards majority, he took a softer course....... What he actually said was > he was aware that this discrimination was both wayed and he has no > allegations against any single community.......... All was that wanted to > buy a house, in front of minority forum. Imraan's U-turn, is India's shame. > I hope he does not withdraw his complaint, and sees an end to this logic of > discrimination, which exists solely on itself. How does Muslim make up > differ from Hindus. I can not understand. Bravo-Imraan! > ________________________________ > Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more. > Click here. > > > See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out > Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > From asad_abbasi at hotmail.com Tue Aug 11 10:35:20 2009 From: asad_abbasi at hotmail.com (asad abbasi) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 05:05:20 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Feudalism and terrorism In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0908090250m5e4df35pc64b0cb59dcc91e0@mail.gmail.com> References: <4eab87870908062244m2728dach89a52c87927ce509@mail.gmail.com> <5af37bb0908080233ka84bb88we9bb94c286b8d4b0@mail.gmail.com> <5af37bb0908090250m5e4df35pc64b0cb59dcc91e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Yasir, thank you for updating me on this issue. Currently, a similar case is going on and it is followed by asian human rights group. They appealled to the concerned department to give protection to Mr Din Mohammad Khambhar. Mr Khambhar was (IS- as i believe it)terrorized not to go against the feudal law. For fuedalism to be history soon , Pakistan needs decision like khaskeli issues quickly. Regards, Asad > From: yasir.media at gmail.com > Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 14:50:05 +0500 > To: reader-list at sarai.net > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Feudalism and terrorism > > dear asad > > that blog entry is from april. > there is an update to this i had posted earlier around 15 July. > > you are right the media also lost interest at some point. Still it was a > happy precedent and ending. however small the victory. > > Subject: [PR] For the first time in Pakistan's history - feudals are forced > to return a village to the peasants > > From: Najma Sadeque > Date: Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 10:24 PM > > > Dear All, > This is hard to believe, and it happened faster than expected, but the > Khaskhelis have got their village back. Around midday today (15th July), a > couple of concerned ministers and advisers including that skunk, Imtiaz > Shaikh, suddenly sent a message they would be coming to the press club. Most > of the media were there but surprisingly AAJ, EXPRESS and GEO, who had > heavily covered the Khaskelis previously, weren't there today. > Many still did not realize that history was being made. -- For the first > time in Pakistan's history, a feudal was forced to return a village to the > peasants. It was a small miracle. Of course, they smoothed out the language > to avoid saying that Varyam was forced to surrender land he had illegally > appropriated. They just said he surrendered it, and the govt was giving it > to the Khashkelis. The two-man team of one PPP MPA and one PML-F (Pagara) > MNA appointed by the Chief Minister to look into the Khaskeli case, came to > make the announcement. Imtiaz Shaikh, of course gave the credit to Pir > Pagara. > There was so much excitement. So much joy on the Khashkelis faces. When the > proceedings were over, they immediately picked themselves up and made for > the village, as the land deeds are going to be distributed there tomorrow to > the individual families 'where they sat'. It will take four days for the > final paperwork (those deeds will be in turn be registered). Then some of > them will have to come back to Karachi when Justice Rizvi calls them to to > wind up the case in court. > The shocker was that ('Dr.') Hashem Khaskeli was there too. He was not > introduced and he did not introduce himself, and the media never realized > that a fugitive was in their midst who should have been arrested on the > spot. Only the NGOs and activists knew (and they had to keep quiet), and > only Deneb got him on film (and the MNA) to 'guarantee' that the villagers > would not be harmed again. > It's not over yet. But the next step should be more fun for the activists. > But all that later. > For now we celebrate this major victory. > Regards, Najma > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ > This is the People's Resistance Mailing List > > > > > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 5:44 AM, asad abbasi wrote: > > > Dear Yasir, > > I did follow this story. It was in limelight for a brief period. But in a > > country full of problems, these issues some how find a hiding. Below is a > > article speaking about this issue as well as similar issues that have > > happened in the past. > > I concur with bloggers ironic question "who says feudalism is dead" > > > > > > > > > > http://sappk.wordpress.com/2009/04/29/khaskhelis-victims-of-feudalism/ > > > > *An Afghan proverb holds that zar, zan and zameen (gold, woman and land) > > are linked to a man’s honour. It is no different in Pakistan’s tribal and > > feudal tradition. While women are fighting back and wealth is no longer the > > exclusive preserve of a handful, land continues to be the most coveted > > element in the lexicon of male honour. Land hunger lies at the root of many > > evils. Civilised societies have another perspective. They regard housing, > > ‘the crucible for human well-being’, as the fundamental right of man to > > enable him to live in peace and dignity. For that he needs land.* > > A demonstration of this conflict between the rich man’s greed and the poor > > man’s needs has been taking place outside the Karachi Press Club since > > mid-March. On display is the confrontation between the evils of avarice, > > violence, corruption and brute power, and the children of a lesser god who > > are backed by civil society. Nearly 40 — the number rises and falls — men, > > women and children, residents of Goth Mohammad Essa Khaskheli (Sanghar > > district), have encamped on the pavement to draw public attention to their > > plight. > > Theirs is a story quite familiar in Pakistan. It is said to be the usual > > tale of the powerful out to grab land and evict the weak from their homes. > > The scene of action is a small goth spread over 12 acres. The 150 families > > who claim to have been settled there for over 40 years now fear for their > > lives. > > They say their powerful neighbour, landlord Waryam Faqir, who reportedly > > owns 10,000 acres (a big jump from the 100 he possessed in 1985) has been > > eyeing the little goth. He has all that is required here to have things > > going his way — political muscle, economic clout and connections. (He was > > convicted of corruption by the accountability court in 2002 and sentenced to > > seven years’ rigorous imprisonment with a fine of Rs2m. > > But he managed to procure his release much before he completed his term.) > > As is not unusual, the landlord appears to have drawn on the might of the > > state to promote his designs. A tacit alliance with others of his class and > > that cuts across party lines may have helped. The conventional strategy > > adopted is to get state land transferred illegally to fictitious names. If > > there are people living there, too bad. They can be evicted since they are > > poor and their title to the land is at best tenuous. > > Take the case of Mr Waryam Faqir’s tussle with the Khaskhelis. The 250 > > acres of fertile land where the village is located belongs to the irrigation > > department. The Khaskhelis have been trying to get their 12 acres > > regularised but in vain. Mr Faqir has apparently enlisted the cooperation of > > friends in the right places in his bid to gain control over these 12 acres. > > In October 2007, he got the mukhtiarkar to certify ‘no any (sic) village in > > the name of Muhammad Essa Khaskheli is located in Deh Bitoor’. > > All this happened at a time when the residents of the goth were in > > possession of documents to prove that they have been settled there for > > decades — their welfare society was registered with the Directorate of > > Social Welfare in 1987, they have had electricity connections for 25 years > > and telephone facilities since 2000. A number of residents hold NICs, PRCs > > and other documents giving their address in the goth. On the Sindh High > > Court’s instructions the deputy district officer Sinjhoro ordered an enquiry > > in July 2008 which verified the existence of the village. > > The latest round has indeed become vicious. It is alleged that the village > > has come under attack, false FIRs have been registered and other methods of > > intimidation have been resorted to. Despairing of obtaining justice, > > Walidad, the elder of the clan, decided to come to Karachi to make his voice > > heard. > > Initially the Khaskhelis’ presence remained unnoticed until they discovered > > a benefactor in Najma Sadeque of Shirkat Gah who mobilised support to > > provide the villagers food for sustenance and shelter for the night. They > > could not be left to starve to death. The turning point came on April 12 > > when Walidad under severe stress because of the threats he was receiving had > > a heart attack and passed away. > > He accomplished in his death the mission that had brought him to Karachi. > > Piler, the Labour Party and Justice (retd) Rashid Rizvi also came to the > > rescue of the villagers. The scene changed dramatically. Eight dignitaries, > > including ministers, advisers and parliamentarians, visited the protesting > > villagers promising them police protection, financial compensation and > > justice. The Khaskhelis returned home to bury Walidad. But the promises > > remain unfulfilled. A week later, they have returned to the Press Club. > > Meanwhile, there are reports that fresh efforts are afoot to show the > > Khaskhelis as encroachers. In a desperate bid, they have faxed an appeal for > > help to Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry. This is no more just a tussle for > > land. At stake also is human dignity and the integrity of a few. Walidad’s > > wife wept bitterly pleading for mercy not knowing that this was her right. A > > revenue officer who has proved to be a friend of the Khaskhelis because of > > his honesty now faces a case filed by Waryam Faqir. > > Sixty years ago, Masud Khadarposh, an ICS officer and deputy commissioner > > Karachi, penned his famous ‘Note of Dissent’ in the Hari Committee report. > > In it he wrote, ‘Peasant proprietorship should replace zamindari’ with the > > goal of ‘creating a class of independent self-respecting farmers with > > sufficient land to enable them … to better their standards of living’. These > > words carry no meaning for a state and society as feudalistic in its mindset > > as ours. > > Repeated half-hearted attempts at land reforms in 1959, 1972 and 1977 > > failed to alleviate the agony of the Khaskhelis and their ilk. > > The situation continues to be exactly as described several decades ago by > > that great peasant leader of Sindh, Hyder Bakhsh Jatoi. He wrote, ‘The hari > > fears the zamindar’s punishment more than he fears the torture of hell, > > because he frequently sees the zamindar’s ‘bully’ in action.’Who says > > feudalism is dead? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: yasir.media at gmail.com > > > Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 14:33:56 +0500 > > > To: reader-list at sarai.net > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Feudalism and terrorism > > > > > > asad, > > > > > > did you follow the Khaskheli's who were eveicted illegally by a > > landlordand > > > were camped outside Karachi Press Club for several months, where one of > > the > > > older men died, and finally with the help of lawyers they got their land > > > back. the landlord became a fugitive (varyam faqeer, ran away froma a > > court > > > which his men stormed in a youtube video froma local tv channel) and pir > > > pagaro intervened (as he was his man, to get the land back to the poor > > > folk). > > > > > > This is unheard of. > > > > > > best > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Murali V > > wrote: > > > > > > > Both Terrorism and Feudalism are dangerous weeds which will have to > > > > controlled. > > > > > > > > India also started as a nation with feudal lords generating bonded > > labors > > > > who had no access to education. INdia has come a long way since then > > and > > > > the > > > > feudal system has almost been cleared and as a result bonded labors. > > This > > > > has resulted in the rural population having access to primary and > > secondary > > > > education. There is still a long way to go as far as rural education is > > > > concerned, but steps have been continuously taken on this front atleast > > in > > > > the last 15 years to increase the education infrastructure in the rural > > > > areas. > > > > > > > > Pakistan had also became a nation at the same time, but the focus of > > > > Pakistan was constantly on India and to destabilise ,resulting in good > > > > funds > > > > being diverted to military buildup and promoting militant training > > camps to > > > > infiltrate into India. > > > > > > > > Pakistan could well understand the history of India since Indepenence > > and > > > > suitably modify its programs based on India's experience. > > > > > > > > More importantly, the education infrastructure should emphasise on > > > > non-Madrasa form of education system. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > V Murali > > > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:43 AM, asad abbasi > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > The discourse of feudalism is not only important forPakistan but > > perhaps > > > > > for South Asia. It requires different intellectuals from various > > > > backgrounds > > > > > to share their views and input their thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > It is important, i must say, because the stereotypical image of > > Pakistan > > > > is > > > > > of a terrorist nation. It is generally accepted that elimination of > > > > > terrorism from this country will not only benefit Pakistan but the > > whole > > > > > world. I, on the other hand, beg to differ. Because as i see it , the > > > > > stability of Pakistan is greatly affected by other factors including > > > > > feudalism as much as it depends on terrorism. > > > > > > > > > > A farmer in province of Sindh who works from dawn to dusk just so > > that he > > > > > and his family can survive. Also, that his children will have to be > > > > farmers > > > > > just like him, because the almighty land lord does not allow children > > to > > > > > study at the local school.(ie if there is a school at the first > > place) > > > > > > > > > > What will happen if Pakistan with all her resources try to eliminate > > > > > terrorism. But somewhere in this process neglects the issue of > > feudalism. > > > > As > > > > > there is no one to watch, feudal lords can only grow in confidence > > and > > > > may > > > > > start abusing the subjects (farmers in this )even more. > > > > > > > > > > Then Pakistan may have one of the following scenarios in 8-10 years. > > > > > > > > > > a) Pakistan has no terrorists and no terrorist activity > > > > > > > > > > b)Pakistan has insignificant amount of terrorist > > > > > > > > > > c)Pakistan wasted her resources and no damage was done to the hold of > > > > > terrorism. > > > > > > > > > > D) Mixture of any of the above situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moreover, because the resources were diverted of other issues such as > > > > > tackling feudalism, Pakistan may end up facing externalities for this > > > > > policy. And one side effect can be that, Pakistan will have a > > generation > > > > of > > > > > uneducated, illiterate and deprived people. Some census say that > > > > Pakistan > > > > > has a literacy ratio of 49%( Even though, i along with so many people > > > > with > > > > > whom i have had the opportunity to discuss this issue, believe that > > this > > > > > number is clearly an exaggeration and the ratio can not be more that > > 36%) > > > > > and it is generally accepted that mostly these people live in urban > > > > areas. > > > > > If Feudalism prevails, then majority of 51% (or 64% as in the other > > case) > > > > > will not have the opportunity to educate themselves. Which, and no > > sane > > > > > person will argue, will bring any country to developmental halt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terrorism is taking lives and destroying places, where as feudalism > > is > > > > > making lives worse and destroys the privilege of education. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It, my friends, is a important issue and just like terrorism should > > be > > > > > taken seriously. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Asad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > > Celebrate a decade of Messenger with free winks, emoticons, display > > pics, > > > > > and more. > > > > > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/ > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Windows Live Messenger: Celebrate 10 amazing years with free winks and > > emoticons. Get Them Now > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Messenger: Celebrate 10 amazing years with free winks and emoticons. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/ From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 11 12:19:40 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:49:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <297810.85598.qm@web39103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Mr Javed, Please do no blame and tarnish the judiciary. Blame the prosecution, if you so wish.The judiciary sees only what is put up as evidence before them and the onus of putting evidence is on Prosecution/ Police. Regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Mon, 8/10/09, Javed wrote: > From: Javed > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite > To: "Taha Mehmood" <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > Cc: "Sarai Reader-list" > Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 10:25 PM > Dear Taha and others > I actually don't care about RSS hating or loving any one. > My main aim > of this post was to show how our judiciary and police is so > biased. On > one hand so many Muslim youth are being arrested and killed > in > encounter deaths in the name of terrorism, but the accused > of the > Malegaon blast are relieved on flimsy grounds. I remember > that even an > investigative journalist like Praveen Swami (who keeps > inventing new > intricate modus operandi of "Indian Mujahideen" and so on) > accepted in > his rare essay that the Hindu terrorism exists and the > Malegaon blast > was just a tip of the iceberg. > > So, my question is: why this prejudice by the judiciary? > > J > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Taha > Mehmood<2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > wrote: > > Dear Rajen, > > > > I think you are absolutely correct. RSS do not hate > Muslims. RSS is a > > mere name of an organization. A name is incapable of > showing any > > emotion against or for any social group. > > > > However, lets us revisit some of the pearls of wisdom > which were > > uttered by great thinkers, which many contemporary > members of RSS > > simply love to read. > > > > I would like to regard Veer Vinayak Damodar Savarkar > as one of them > > and I am sure you will join me, in this > acknowledgment. > > > > This is what  Veer Vinayak Damodar Savarkar, had to > say about so > > called, 'Religious Bigotry of Indian Muslims'- > > > > " It is useless to declare only the Muslim league as > communal. It is > > not news, it is a reality, that the entire Muslim > community is embed > > in the spirit of communalism' > > > >  [ Rana, B.S. 2004. Veer Vinayak Damodar Savarkar, > p127 ] > > > > Then there was venerable Guruji. Whose love for > Muslims was legendary. > > This is what Madhav Sadashiv Ggolwalkar aka Guruji had > to say about > > followers of Islam in India: > > > > They [Muslims] have also developed a feeling of > identification with > > the enemies of this land. They look to some foreign > lands as their > > holy places. They call them selves Sheikhs and > Sayeds...They still > > think they have come here to conquer and establish > their kingdoms. So > > we see it not only as a change of faith and as a > change of national > > identity. What else it is, if not treason, to join the > camp of enemy, > > leaving the mother nation in the lurch. > > > > [words of Guruji- as cited in, Basu, T. 1993. Khaki > Shorts and Saffron > > Flags. p28 ] > > > > Here's another account of goodness of Gurujee with > respect to Muslims. > > I take the honor and privilege of citing the text > below, directly from > > the official website of the BJP. We all know of > course, how members of > > the BJP has time and again shown to every one, how > much they care > > deeply about Muslims. The text below relates to what > many members of > > the BJP like to call its core philosophy, which goes > by a rather fuzzy > > name called- Integral Humanism. > > > > The text pertains to a lecture delivered to many > thousands of patriots > > by venerable Pandit Deendayal Upadhyaya, on April > 22-25, 1965. Here > > Panditjee, is trying to tell us about, distinctions > about individual > > versus society and as a way of illustration, cites a > conversation > > which, according to Upadhyaya jee,  happened between > Shri Vinobaji and > > the Sar Sanghachalak of Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, > Shri Guruji, > > > > -Let me give you an illustration. Once during a > conversation between > > Shri Vinobaji and the Sar Sanghachalak of Rashtriya > Swayamsevak Sangh, > > Shri Guruji, a question arose as to where the modes of > thinking of > > Hindus and Muslims differ. Guruji said to Vinobaji > that there are good > > and bad people in every society. There can be found > honest and good > > people in Hindus as well as in Muslims. Similarly > rascals can be seen > > in both the societies. No particular society has a > monopoly of > > goodness. However, it is observed that Hindus even if > they are rascals > > in individual life, when they come together in a > group, they always > > think of good things. On the other hand when two > Muslims come > > together, they propose and approve of things which > they themselves in > > their individual capacity would not even think of. > They start thinking > > in an altogether different way. This is an everyday > experience. > > Vinobaji admitted that there was truth in this > observation but had no > > reasons to explain it.- > > > > [ Upadhyaya, D.D. 1965. integral Humanism. Individual > versus Society. > > url-  http://www.bjp.org/content/view/444/396/ >  ] > > > > Such was the clarity of TRUTH that Vinobaji did not > even think about > > reasons for explaining it. > > > > Javed, considering the above thoughts, I sincerely > feel you must > > reconsider your comments. Rajen is absolutely correct > in my opinion. > > RSS does not hate Muslims or Christians. People > associated with the > > RSS merely think that Musilms are traitors, Muslims > are communal, > > Muslims are divisive as a community. But of course > that does not mean, > > they HATE Muslims. Hate, I think, is a particularly > strong word to > > define a relationship you see. For the time being, I > think, I would > > rather go by Karan Johar's insightful words, 'kuch > rishtyon ka naam > > nahi hota, woh bas hoteain hain' > > > > Warm regards > > > > Taha > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 11 12:21:25 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:51:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908102121l1aaeebe9h667234948d9261a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <112204.96303.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Well Mr Murali, what will the Minorities Commission do if there are no such complaints. Do you want the Commission to sit without work.I do not know why do the Muslims make issues of small things and our pseudo-secularists are awaiting such incidents to support them. A few years back, in Delhi I went to enquire about a flat in a Society in Delhi where I was told that only Gujratis can buy or get the flats transferred.Cool,what is big about it? Someone in Bangalore I know didn't want to give his flat to a non-vegetarian and he would have refused to let out his house to a Muslim.Some one could make an issue of even such small things. Why, let us live with our own dignities. Regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Tue, 8/11/09, Murali V wrote: > From: Murali V > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn > To: "subhrodip sengupta" > Cc: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 9:51 AM > Every time the so called victim, > brings about the minority issue and our > pseudo-secularists immediately highlight the event > I hope everybody would recall the statement of > Azharuddin  after he was > convicted of match fixing. This clinging to harassment of > minorities is > nothing new. > > Regards, > V Murali > > On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 12:33 AM, subhrodip sengupta < > sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Forwarded Message ---- > > From: subhrodip sengupta > > To: Readers list Yousuf Sarai. > > Sent: Monday, 10 August, 2009 11:58:56 PM > > Subject: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn > > > > > > The clipping made a sad read. Was reminded of the same > agony muslims r > > facing in MUmbai, interestingly many other top-shots > complained of same > > discrimination within Mumbai, this is another example > of conflict becoming > > clear and copming to forefront, as wpould be rare in > non-riot affected > > villages. City based insecurities lead to this..... > > The actor who has done many off-beat, bold roles stood > up, with people like > > Srk denying them as publicity stunts. Afraid of thus > loosing his appeal > > towards majority, he took a softer course....... What > he actually said was > > he was aware that this discrimination was both wayed > and he has no > > allegations against any single community.......... All > was that wanted to > > buy a house, in front of minority forum. Imraan's > U-turn, is India's shame. > > I hope he does not withdraw his complaint, and sees an > end to this logic of > > discrimination, which exists solely on itself. How > does Muslim make up > > differ from Hindus. I can not understand. > Bravo-Imraan! > > ________________________________ > > Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video > highlights and more. > > Click here. > > > > > >      See the Web's breaking stories, > chosen by people like you. Check out > > Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 13:07:42 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 00:37:42 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908102106g5defbdf1ya60501c204dda9f6@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560908100251m61055704t1d54be26379d0bd8@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908100331n1c28c00ehd849fbf88e866741@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908100810j766969d0x1b464193a0ab87b3@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908101002x698d621cm487a41db8443c0c3@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908102106g5defbdf1ya60501c204dda9f6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Murali ji A fatwa in a democracy must and should be debated before people think of actually obeying the fatwa. We are a democracy, not a banana republic. If the mullahs and the maulvis feel it's a problem, they are free to feel that way, but that does not mean we stop that action. Anyways, there is no policing done to ensure that a fatwa is followed or not, be it for one banning cow slaughter or one for Sania Mirza not being allowed to wear skirts. As far as Akbar is concerned, the arguments I put up are those which he made in 1591-92, whereas the war you refer to was fought way before that in 1570's. However, that can't be the crux of what I wish to add. The fact is that while some historians would like to portray that Akbar and the Mughal rule in general was against the Hindu way of life (or even Rajput way, which meant destruction of temples), there are others who refute this fact and state that Akbar was not against the Hindu way of life, but was more concerned by the idea of ruling upon territories and expanding his empire (which is wrong and against the spirit of democracy, but this was not then prevalent as an idea at a larger level, more so because the ruler was only concerned with collection of taxes from those having land, and the poor were generally unaffected in such cases). It is also stated sometimes that like Ashoka, Akbar also turned from the path of violence to non-violence, but this may also have been because of the establishment of a stable state in political terms. To add here, Abul Fazl's accounts, which I haven't read, have been actually interpreted in two completely different ways by people on either side of the divide: those who believe Akbar was communal and anti-Hindu, and those who believe Akbar actually was secular. However, one must not forget the addition of values of one's own with the interpretation of histories by those who believe in either dictum. What I have put up is an enactment declared by Akbar in the year when the 1000th year of introduction of the Hijra calendar was being celebrated. And most importantly, at least Akbar had a tradition of allowing discussions to take place, which is an important facet of democracy. Not like Kautilya, for whom only upper castes deserved freedom while women and lower castes were to be kept away from it, as advocated strongly in his 'Arth-shastra'. And far more important than all this, is just one expression: people should be able to lead the lives they value. And if Akbar is accused of having violated this, so can the RSS and the rest of the Sangh Parivar. Therefore, the question is not whether Akbar is right or wrong, but whether such actions (as those committed by the RSS in our times, which we have seen and have reason to believe) are justifiable or not (whether they may be committed by anyone in future or may have been committed by anyone in the past). Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 13:09:48 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 00:39:48 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn In-Reply-To: <112204.96303.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4eab87870908102121l1aaeebe9h667234948d9261a2@mail.gmail.com> <112204.96303.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I only hope it's for the sake of disallowing the non-vegetarians and not for disallowing the Muslims. From murali.chalam at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 13:28:53 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:28:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908100331n1c28c00ehd849fbf88e866741@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908100810j766969d0x1b464193a0ab87b3@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908101002x698d621cm487a41db8443c0c3@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908102106g5defbdf1ya60501c204dda9f6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908110058g6cdc57fco9208399f1ecf6192@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh Ji, As you say and I quote "if Akbar is accused of having violated this, so can the RSS and the rest of the Sangh Parivar. Therefore, the question is not whether Akbar is right or wrong, but whether such actions (as those committed by the RSS in our times, which we have seen and have reason to believe) are justifiable or not (whether they may be committed by anyone in future or may have been committed by anyone in the past). " You have not responded to the nefarious activities of the seventh day Adventists. The pseudo-secular govt. are silent about these happennings and you expect people to sit and watch. Regards, V Murali On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Murali ji > > A fatwa in a democracy must and should be debated before people think of > actually obeying the fatwa. We are a democracy, not a banana republic. If > the mullahs and the maulvis feel it's a problem, they are free to feel that > way, but that does not mean we stop that action. Anyways, there is no > policing done to ensure that a fatwa is followed or not, be it for one > banning cow slaughter or one for Sania Mirza not being allowed to wear > skirts. > > As far as Akbar is concerned, the arguments I put up are those which he > made in 1591-92, whereas the war you refer to was fought way before that in > 1570's. However, that can't be the crux of what I wish to add. The fact is > that while some historians would like to portray that Akbar and the Mughal > rule in general was against the Hindu way of life (or even Rajput way, which > meant destruction of temples), there are others who refute this fact and > state that Akbar was not against the Hindu way of life, but was more > concerned by the idea of ruling upon territories and expanding his empire > (which is wrong and against the spirit of democracy, but this was not then > prevalent as an idea at a larger level, more so because the ruler was only > concerned with collection of taxes from those having land, and the poor were > generally unaffected in such cases). > > It is also stated sometimes that like Ashoka, Akbar also turned from the > path of violence to non-violence, but this may also have been because of the > establishment of a stable state in political terms. > > To add here, Abul Fazl's accounts, which I haven't read, have been actually > interpreted in two completely different ways by people on either side of the > divide: those who believe Akbar was communal and anti-Hindu, and those who > believe Akbar actually was secular. However, one must not forget the > addition of values of one's own with the interpretation of histories by > those who believe in either dictum. What I have put up is an enactment > declared by Akbar in the year when the 1000th year of introduction of the > Hijra calendar was being celebrated. > > And most importantly, at least Akbar had a tradition of allowing > discussions to take place, which is an important facet of democracy. Not > like Kautilya, for whom only upper castes deserved freedom while women and > lower castes were to be kept away from it, as advocated strongly in his > 'Arth-shastra'. > > And far more important than all this, is just one expression: people should > be able to lead the lives they value. And if Akbar is accused of having > violated this, so can the RSS and the rest of the Sangh Parivar. Therefore, > the question is not whether Akbar is right or wrong, but whether such > actions (as those committed by the RSS in our times, which we have seen and > have reason to believe) are justifiable or not (whether they may be > committed by anyone in future or may have been committed by anyone in the > past). > > Regards > > Rakesh > From murali.chalam at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 13:33:10 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:33:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn In-Reply-To: References: <4eab87870908102121l1aaeebe9h667234948d9261a2@mail.gmail.com> <112204.96303.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908110103t17c93beawef26aceaef311d32@mail.gmail.com> If I were to explain further on Malik's statement, If somebody is rejected because of being a non-vegetarian, and if the person happens to belong to a minority community, I am sure, it would be twisted to be one because of being in the community and all hell would be let loose by the Pseudo-seculars and the media. Regards, V Murali On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > I only hope it's for the sake of disallowing the non-vegetarians and not > for disallowing the Muslims. > > > From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 11 14:25:28 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 01:55:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908110058g6cdc57fco9208399f1ecf6192@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <232101.51937.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> very soon from investigative biases to prosecutorial biases to judicial biases to biases of organisations linked with religions to biases of personalities of such organisations   this discussion will move to criticism of religions and then the scriptures   there will be plenty for everyone to quote from From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 11 14:56:02 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 02:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Sam Miller on Sarai In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <949277.14625.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com>   "Many of these discussions are suffused with post-modern jargon, but usually they are worth the effort." --- On Mon, 8/10/09, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: From: Naeem Mohaiemen Subject: [Reader-list] Sam Miller on Sarai To: "sarai list" Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 9:18 PM On Sarai, excerpt from Sam Miller's book... In the basement of a modern building at the foot of the Ridge, ten minutes from the site of Ludlow Castle, are the offices of an organisation that calls itself ‘Sarai’. Anyone who asks the simple question ‘What is Sarai?’ may not get such a simple answer. It is a place, but it also an idea. Sarai is Delhi at its most modern, its most virtual. It exists in a series of rooms in Civil Lines, but it also orbits in cyber-space.  According to its own publicity literature, Sarai ‘encompasses an inter-disciplinary research programme, a platform for critical reflection, a screening space, a convivial context for online and offline conversations and a media lab’. I have known about Sarai for several years, as an unashamed lurker on its e-mail groups – receiving regular updates on a eclectic range of subjects, often about Delhi, ranging from ‘the Culture of Telephone Booths’, through ‘Society and the Soap Factory to ‘Locating Sexuality through the eyes of Afghan and Burmese Refugee Women in Delhi’. Many of these discussions are suffused with post-modern jargon, but usually they are worth the effort. Sarai – the non-virtual part of it – consists of three rooms: a private inner sanctum where individuals have their own workstations; a glass-walled public access computer area (the media lab), and a large meeting room with a café. No-one looked up when I walked in and sat down, eavesdropping. There was a three-way discussion about French philosophers (Foucault and de Certeau), a young man was retying his pony tail as he watched cricket on a wall-mounted TV (not quakeproof – a potentially lethal missile, I decided), and a young woman was sitting at a table staring at her coffee mug as if it were an object of worship. I interrupted her to ask for help getting access to the Sarai online archive (I needed to find out more about Ludlow Castle). She gave me a split-second look of exasperation, before getting to her feet and handing me over to the resident computer expert. He took me into the media lab (with only one of the eight computers free), sat me down in front of a terminal and began logging me in. ‘Username: guest. Password: guest. You do know Linux and Mozilla Firefox[1], don’t you?’ ‘Er, yes - a little.’ I was lying. I suppose I was rather proud of myself for having heard of them, and too embarrassed to admit that I hadn’t ever used them. I knew that they were the main software competition to Microsoft, and that they were, in some way that I didn’t quite understand, alternative, democratic and trendy. He’d put me on to a local area network where I could now access the archive. I entered ‘Ludlow Castle Delhi’ in the search box, and the entire screen went white. So did I. My usual solution, ‘Ctrl-Alt-Del’, had no effect, I panicked. And looking surreptitiously around, knowing I was doing something very naughty, I pressed my finger down hard on the on/off key. With a tell-tale squeak the screen went blank. I looked around again; no-one was staring with disdain in my direction. I’d escaped detection, and thirty seconds later I turned the computer on again, to a profusion of messages about how sinful I’d been to turn it off improperly. [1] Mozilla Firefox – Netscape’s successor and the main rival to Explorer as an Internet browser. A firefox is a red panda still found in India. Mozilla is a contraction of Mosaic Killer (Mosaic was the first widely used Internet browser). Linux is an open-source operating system, invented by Linus Thorvalds, a rival to MS Windows and Apple’s Mac OS. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Tue Aug 11 15:15:02 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:15:02 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908110103t17c93beawef26aceaef311d32@mail.gmail.com> References: <4eab87870908102121l1aaeebe9h667234948d9261a2@mail.gmail.com> <112204.96303.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908110103t17c93beawef26aceaef311d32@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <52685.69679.qm@web94701.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Dear all, Thanks for your interesting comments which does not let one fall silent. Let me go by your arguments, a group of Brahmins, possibly marathis who are vegetarians. So, what makes up a hindu bramhin, things he /she does, a lower acste what they do....... One wont believe it nowadays, but more than five decades ago, Muslims were marked by their consumption of onion, and in reverse, only lower caste and Muslims swere supposed to consume raw onions! Then I assume these BRahmins, or god knows whoever they are; are discriminating against not only muslims alone........................................... Fine for those who believe Constitution is just another book of rules which need to be bent as we like, Article on equality is very clear on this, but for those who look for social consciousness and outcomes, it's not just distracting, but rather alarming. How will these people live when one of their daughter's shall reveal she has had had sex with a mohammedan and a christian, apart from 3 other hindu boys? Will then they resort to more basic methods of public retribution and disgracing? Alas. Interestingly nether the fal wallahs nor the sweepers are Brahmins........... As for Beef consumption, Consumption of nothing in my house can make yours impure, these society wallahs, should have more sense than conducting Raam Leelas, Hanuman pujas , where interestingly revel is there, something which they stay should be behind doors.,........... I have beef inside my house no strong smell disturrrbs you, it's finer than lift does not work, water supply does not come, to the latter they should restrict their problem. What about consumption of liquor. Then they should have things like surprise checks. Let me not go into frivolous things, if the argument is correct, they are actually committing a bigger crime, a prejudice and friction against a bigger section of society. About Hashmi: Any one who now a days stands up is first accused of trying to attain cheap publicity, even shiny ahuja's maid! Fine as a statement from dominant ones who'd else loose power, but we buying into such things. Things are pretty clear it is assumed.......(on what basis?) He has been a bold-based actor. Is it less amusing that his case such people as who date married, women, bring in joys, challenge social perceptions, or even do bold roles in movies are cheap. But lest be sure lets pass one resolution, they are not prostitutes, many of us would have to apply for license then, being students orf social experiments.......... Regards,(hopefully I got more audience for this despicable, cheap actor who behaves like what onstage)   & LOVE Subhrodip ________________________________ From: Murali V To: Rakesh Iyer Cc: Sarai List Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 1:33:10 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn If I were to explain further on Malik's statement, If somebody is rejected because of being a non-vegetarian, and if the person happens to belong to a minority community, I am sure, it would be twisted to be one because of being in the community and all hell would be let loose by the Pseudo-seculars and the media. Regards, V Murali On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > I only hope it's for the sake of disallowing the non-vegetarians and not > for disallowing the Muslims. > > > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 11 15:28:21 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 02:58:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] China should break up India: Chinese strategist Message-ID: <187420.86596.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> "China should break up India: Chinese strategist"   Almost coinciding with the 13th round of Sino-Indian border talks (New Delhi, August 7-8, 2009), an article (in the Chinese language) has appeared in China captioned 'If China takes a little action, the so-called Great Indian Federation can be broken up' (Zhong Guo Zhan Lue Gang, www.iiss.cn, Chinese, August 8, 2009).   Interestingly, it has been reproduced in several other strategic and military Web sites of the country and by all means, targets the domestic audience. The authoritative host site is located in Beijing and is the new edition of one, which so far represented the China International Institute for Strategic Studies (www.chinaiiss.org).   Claiming that Beijing's 'China-Centric' Asian strategy, provides for splitting India, the writer of the article, Zhan Lue (strategy), has found that New Delhi's corresponding 'India-Centric' policy in Asia, is in reality a 'Hindustan centric' one. Stating that on the other hand 'local centres' exist in several of the country's provinces (excepting for the UP and certain northern regions), Zhan Lue has felt that in the face of such local characteristics, the 'so-called' Indian nation cannot be considered as one having existed in history.   According to the article, if India today relies on any thing for unity, it is the Hindu religion. The partition of the country was based on religion. Stating that today nation states are the main current in the world, it has said that India could only be termed now as a 'Hindu religious state'. Adding that Hinduism is a decadent religion as it allows caste exploitation and is unhelpful to the country's modernisation, it described the Indian government as one in a dilemma with regard to eradication of the caste system as it realises that the process to do away with castes may shake the foundation of the consciousness of the Indian nation.   The writer has argued that in view of the above, China in its own interest and the progress of Asia, should join forces with different nationalities like the Assamese, Tamils, and Kashmiris and support the latter in establishing independent nation-States of their own, out of India. In particular, the ULFA (United Liberation Front of Asom) in Assam, a territory neighboring China, can be helped by China so that Assam realises its national independence.   The article has also felt that for Bangladesh, the biggest threat is from India, which wants to develop a great Indian Federation extending from Afghanistan to Myanmar. India is also targeting China with support to Vietnam's efforts to occupy Nansha (Spratly) group of islands in South China Sea.   Hence the need for China's consolidation of its alliance with Bangladesh, a country with which the US and Japan are also improving their relations to counter China.   It has pointed out that China can give political support to Bangladesh enabling the latter to encourage ethnic Bengalis in India to get rid of Indian control and unite with Bangladesh as one Bengali nation; if the same is not possible, creation of at least another free Bengali nation state as a friendly neighbour of Bangladesh, would be desirable, for the purpose of weakening India's expansion and threat aimed at forming a 'unified South Asia'.   The punch line in the article has been that to split India, China can bring into its fold countries like Pakistan, Nepal and Bhutan, support ULFA in attaining its goal for Assam's independence, back aspirations of Indian nationalities like the Tamils and Nagas, encourage Bangladesh to give a push to the independence of West Bengal and lastly recover the 90,000 sq km territory in southern Tibet .   Wishing for India's break-up into 20 to 30 nation-States like in Europe, the article has concluded by saying that if the consciousness of nationalities in India could be aroused, social reforms in South Asia can be achieved, the caste system can be eradicated and the region can march along the road of prosperity.   The Chinese article in question will certainly outrage readers in India. Its suggestion that China can follow a strategy to dismember India, a country always with a tradition of unity in diversity, is atrocious, to say the least. The write-up could not have been published without the permission of the Chinese authorities, but it is sure that Beijing will wash its hands out of this if the matter is taken up with it by New Delhi.   It has generally been seen that China is speaking in two voices -- its diplomatic interlocutors have always shown understanding during their dealings with their Indian counterparts, but its selected media is pouring venom on India in their reporting. Which one to believe is a question confronting the public opinion and even policy makers in India.   In any case, an approach of panic towards such outbursts will be a mistake, but also ignoring them will prove to be costly for India.   D S Rajan   D S Rajan, is Director, Chennai Centre for China Studies.   http://news.rediff.com/special/2009/aug/10/china-should-break-up-india-suggests-chinese-strategist.htm   From murali.chalam at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 15:39:04 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:39:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] China should break up India: Chinese strategist In-Reply-To: <187420.86596.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <187420.86596.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908110309n4dc26b36p7494c5b3b975120d@mail.gmail.com> Our Communist parties would be more than happy to help china out in this regard. On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:28 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > "China should break up India: Chinese strategist" > > Almost coinciding with the 13th round of Sino-Indian border talks (New > Delhi, August 7-8, 2009), an article (in the Chinese language) has appeared > in China captioned 'If China takes a little action, the so-called Great > Indian Federation can be broken up' (Zhong Guo Zhan Lue Gang, www.iiss.cn, > Chinese, August 8, 2009). > > Interestingly, it has been reproduced in several other strategic and > military Web sites of the country and by all means, targets the domestic > audience. The authoritative host site is located in Beijing and is the new > edition of one, which so far represented the China International Institute > for Strategic Studies (www.chinaiiss.org). > > Claiming that Beijing's 'China-Centric' Asian strategy, provides for > splitting India, the writer of the article, Zhan Lue (strategy), has found > that New Delhi's corresponding 'India-Centric' policy in Asia, is in reality > a 'Hindustan centric' one. Stating that on the other hand 'local centres' > exist in several of the country's provinces (excepting for the UP and > certain northern regions), Zhan Lue has felt that in the face of such local > characteristics, the 'so-called' Indian nation cannot be considered as one > having existed in history. > > According to the article, if India today relies on any thing for unity, it > is the Hindu religion. The partition of the country was based on religion. > Stating that today nation states are the main current in the world, it has > said that India could only be termed now as a 'Hindu religious state'. > Adding that Hinduism is a decadent religion as it allows caste exploitation > and is unhelpful to the country's modernisation, it described the Indian > government as one in a dilemma with regard to eradication of the caste > system as it realises that the process to do away with castes may shake the > foundation of the consciousness of the Indian nation. > > The writer has argued that in view of the above, China in its own interest > and the progress of Asia, should join forces with different nationalities > like the Assamese, Tamils, and Kashmiris and support the latter in > establishing independent nation-States of their own, out of India. In > particular, the ULFA (United Liberation Front of Asom) in Assam, a territory > neighboring China, can be helped by China so that Assam realises its > national independence. > > The article has also felt that for Bangladesh, the biggest threat is from > India, which wants to develop a great Indian Federation extending from > Afghanistan to Myanmar. India is also targeting China with support to > Vietnam's efforts to occupy Nansha (Spratly) group of islands in South China > Sea. > > Hence the need for China's consolidation of its alliance with Bangladesh, a > country with which the US and Japan are also improving their relations to > counter China. > > It has pointed out that China can give political support to Bangladesh > enabling the latter to encourage ethnic Bengalis in India to get rid of > Indian control and unite with Bangladesh as one Bengali nation; if the same > is not possible, creation of at least another free Bengali nation state as a > friendly neighbour of Bangladesh, would be desirable, for the purpose of > weakening India's expansion and threat aimed at forming a 'unified South > Asia'. > > The punch line in the article has been that to split India, China can bring > into its fold countries like Pakistan, Nepal and Bhutan, support ULFA in > attaining its goal for Assam's independence, back aspirations of Indian > nationalities like the Tamils and Nagas, encourage Bangladesh to give a push > to the independence of West Bengal and lastly recover the 90,000 sq km > territory in southern Tibet . > > Wishing for India's break-up into 20 to 30 nation-States like in Europe, > the article has concluded by saying that if the consciousness of > nationalities in India could be aroused, social reforms in South Asia can be > achieved, the caste system can be eradicated and the region can march along > the road of prosperity. > > The Chinese article in question will certainly outrage readers in India. > Its suggestion that China can follow a strategy to dismember India, a > country always with a tradition of unity in diversity, is atrocious, to say > the least. The write-up could not have been published without the permission > of the Chinese authorities, but it is sure that Beijing will wash its hands > out of this if the matter is taken up with it by New Delhi. > > It has generally been seen that China is speaking in two voices -- its > diplomatic interlocutors have always shown understanding during their > dealings with their Indian counterparts, but its selected media is pouring > venom on India in their reporting. Which one to believe is a question > confronting the public opinion and even policy makers in India. > > In any case, an approach of panic towards such outbursts will be a mistake, > but also ignoring them will prove to be costly for India. > > D S Rajan > > D S Rajan, is Director, Chennai Centre for China Studies. > > > http://news.rediff.com/special/2009/aug/10/china-should-break-up-india-suggests-chinese-strategist.htm > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From rajeshr at csds.in Tue Aug 11 16:00:56 2009 From: rajeshr at csds.in (Rajesh Ramakrishnan) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:00:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] `European Archipelago', talk by Roberto Toscano, August 18, 3:30 PM, CSDS Message-ID: *Tuesday, 18th August, 2009* *EUROPEAN ARCHIPELAGO: EUROPE BETWEEN UNITY AND DIFFERENCE* Talk by *Roberto Toscano* * * at * 3:30 PM* in the *Seminar Room, CSDS, 29 Rajpur Road, Delhi – 110 054* Roberto Toscano is Italy's Ambassador to India, after being for five years (2003-2008) Ambassador to Iran. Until 2003, he was Head of Policy Planning at the Italian Ministry of Foreign Affairs and chaired the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development’s Development Assistance Committee network on conflict, peace, and development co-operation. As a career diplomat, he has served in a number of other posts (Chile, USSR, Spain, United States, as well as at Italy’s Permanent Mission to the United Nations at Geneva). He holds a degree in law from the University of Parma and an M.A. from the School of Advanced International Studies at Johns Hopkins University, which he attended as a Fulbright fellow. In 1987-88 he was a Fellow at the Center for International Affairs of Harvard University. >From 2000 to 2003, he was a visiting professor of international relations in the Department of Political Science at LUISS University in Rome. He is the author of several books and articles on human rights, peacekeeping, conflict prevention, ethics and international relations published in Italy, the U.S., France and Spain. Some of his books are: (with Ramin Jehanbegloo) *Beyond Violence: Principles for an Open Century* (New Delhi: Har-Anand Publications, 2009), *La Violenza, Le Regole* (Torino: Einaudi, 2006) and *Soviet Human Rights Policy and Perestroika *(Cambridge, Mass.: University Press of America, 1989). From pawan.durani at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 16:10:02 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:10:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] LOOT, GRAB AND ARSON KASHMIRI PANDIT PROPERTIES Message-ID: <6b79f1a70908110340u2065faf4u2e51de02b2b43243@mail.gmail.com> LOOT, GRAB AND ARSON KASHMIRI PANDIT PROPERTIES In their crusade launched with utmost fire and fury to establish a radical theocratic system, cleansing the land of Pandit infidels, the Muslim terrorists uncritically accepted as Mujjahids by the Muslim population went whole-hog to buttress up and fine-tune the record of gory traditions of their ancestors who roasted people alive and ripped open the foetuses of pregnant women and resorted to loot, plunder and massacre for whole-sale conversion thereby adding horrendous chapters to the despicable book of barbarity. Unflinching in their obedience to the tradition of tyrants, tile new brand of Muslim terrorists concealing their identities under resounding and high-flown Islamic names could not be found wanting in perpetuating the memory of vandals and consummating the holy task assigned to them by cesspits of Madrasas as the creation of Islamic fanatics. let them goes the credit of performing the sacred rites of loot and pillage, rape and arson. Once the Kashmiri Pandits have been forced to flee their homes and hearths to uncharted destinations, Nemesis started her dreadful operations. Having looted and ransacked their living abodes, the terrorists and their large mass of Muslim collaborators displayed their fiendishness by torching off the Pandit houses built with the sweat and blood of their life-time earnings. As tribals in 1947 had been lured to the loot and rape of bazars in Srinagar, the Muslims lending unmitigated support to the surge of armed insurgency were promised loot, plunder, rape and unbridled appropriation of Pandit properties. Loot and Plunder The loot and pillage of Pandit houses was carried out under a well calibrated plan and strategy. As a first step they were marked red to stand them out from the mixed populations for purposes of loot, rapacious appropriation and arson. For looting operations areas were assigned to the gangs of looters working in cohesion with mosque committees and experts churned out from Madrasas. A lightning operation for stealing rubber shoes from Pandit houses was conducted by the same elements with mosques as pivotal centres and to the knowledge of all mosques had mushroomed at a quick pace in strategic areas with the massive aid of petro-dollars pouring in from channels abroad through local conduits. After the launch of insurgency the waves of looters replicating their history in time tanned out in various directions to get lost into the Pandit habitations and returned gage with immense booty to the precincts of mosques for distribution leaving a chunk for mosque committees led by hard-core Mullahs fanged with bigotry and separatism. The frenzied looters reflecting the apachi culture that has long been the essential ethos of Kashmir are said not to be the traditional thieves and anti-socials, but well-off and prosperous guys suffused with ferocious vengeance and anti-Pandit venom. Overpowered by predatory and confiscatory persuasions, acquired and instinctive, assiduously nurtured and cultivated in the Quranic schools, the Muslim looters broke open the doors and windows or bored burrow-like openings like predatory animals for access into the houses for loot and plunder. It will be a miracle if any Kashmiri Pandit house has escaped the looting sprees. The entire Pandit habitations scattered over the fertile valley have suffered not one bout of loot and plunder, but several such spells of depredations and ravages. To the shame of the shameless, the Islamic looters set up bazars where the looted property was openly put to sale. The markets picked up for the purpose were not confined to the towns in the valley, but the looted goods were pushed into the national market from Jammu to Delhi to Bombay to Calcutta. Brass utensils spirited away from the kitchens of Pandit houses were pulverised into bits, stuffed into bags and sent across the border as proof of their true Islamic orientation which had faked and lost its sheen by an overlaying of Brahmanic culture. Gas cylinders stolen in spells of loot from the ravaged houses were kept without any twinge of conscience and when their numbers swelled beyond any count, they were openly sold as if slaves were being sold to the Muslim buyers in the slave-market of Turkistan. The shawls of various varieties maintained as the prized possessions looted from the abodes of expelled natives are said to be sold to the sophisticates throughout the national market especially the Bengali market where patronage is lavishly showered on pedlars of loot. Radio-sets, Television sets, wall clocks, sewing machines, newly sewn suits and dresses, saris of prominent delicacy et al acquired through organised loot and legitimised as booty are kept to swell the stocks of those either in business or venture to float new businesses The merciless looters engaged in "wiping out" operations against the religious enemies have not spared their mattings and beddings thereby beefing up the quantum of their material properties considered a value in desert cultures. With the looted properties from Pandit houses businesses have been diversified or rendered a specialised touch. There are looters who are said to peddle in all sorts of electronic goods and gadgets acquired through loot. There are others who have set up antique shops dealing in rare objects dart and artefacts looted from Kashmiri Pandit sophisticates and plucked out from temples. With incalculable wealth of petro-dollars pouring in, Pakistan pumping millions to sustain and proliferate terrorism and India in response not lagging behind to quench the blazing fires of insurgency by allowing loot of public moneys or through huge packages and booty in kitties, the sole beneficiary, they say, is the Kashmiri Muslim who has visibly scaled new levels of prosperity and affluence incomparable to what he enjoyed prior to 1988 bench-mark. As a sure manifestation and indicator of newly acquired opulence and prosperity, there is an unprecedented construction boom in the valley. New structures are pompously built and old ones are dismantled and re-built more often than not with doors and windows, inner ceilings and G.I.E sheets and other building materials uprooted, plucked out and stripped from the houses of infidels. Those of their eviscerated houses which are yet standing and waiting for the date fixed for their blaze have a saga to relate and a statement to make. They carry grisly scars and gaping wounds as the marauders in their cycles of plunder and sack have looted away the house-hold effects that invested them with the throb and feel of pulsating abodes. Their doors and windows have been pitilessly removed. They are shorn of stones, bricks and other materials vitally placed to render monolithic wholeness to the edifices. Inside houses the same loot and plunder has been affected. Almirahs, ward-robes, electric fittings, water connections, switches, lamp shades, wash-basins and more than most toys of children and their wooden cradles have been looted away with savagery. There are houses galore with no roots to protect them form rains and snows as the ruthless looters in blitzkrieg operations have sadistically dismantled and removed them for installation in their own constructions. There are open spaces which once were sites of throbbing human settlements and piles of blackened ruins covering them now tell a cruel tale of pillage and plunder. At Naqashpora, Sathu Barbarshah, Srinagar there were Kouls living, a cultured and prosperous family owning four houses which have been razed to the ground said to be the handiwork of near and distant neighbours. In the brutal operation sixteen houses belonging to Pandits were levelled storey by storey, wall by wall and brick by brick and the materials are said to have disappeared into the houses of apachies. As reported to a humanistic organisation working for human rights violations three houses belonging to Maharaja Krishen Bhat, Bhasker Nath Bhat and Kanth Ram of village Malmoh, Tehsil Pattan, District Baramulla were stripped off the G.I.E. sheets serving as roofs of the houses on 15th Dec., 1996 by Muslim looters. The said-village as a Kashmiri Pandit settlement had already suffered orgies of loot and plunder at the hands of tribal looters enjoying autonomy of destructing the religious foes. Writes Bali, "Those of the houses that have been untorched have the structure of dilapidated walls only with gaping holes for doors and windows are shorn of all fittings, including electric and water taps. As per house-hold and personal effects, these are conspicuously absent. Audio and video tapes alongwith TVs, Video and audio tape recorders, music systems, stereos, kitchen ranges and kitchen gadgets, all have been pilfered. Recording details of this rampage and loot will be ludicrous, bizarre and emotionally painful." Writes Dr. R.L. Shant, "They have been reduced to a people condemned to suffer bearing tales of arson and plunder of their belongings left back by them in cities and villages from the very neighbours who leave no stone unturned in propagating through terrorist - friendly media in India that they are the custodians of minorities in Kashmir." Dr. Pandita's House Converted into a Public Latrine It is dismaying to learn that the ancestral house of Dr. K.N. Pandita situated at Khowja Bagh, Barmulla though standing and left untorched, has been converted into a public latrine at the behest of Muslim bigots. The extreme act of venegefulness against Dr. Pandita is being attributed to his exemplary role in exposing the inner motivations of the Muslim brand of terrorism in Kashmir. Dr. Pandita is a Persian scholar with doctorate from Tehran university and authority on Kashmir affairs. He has had the rare distinction of attending a number of international conferences on Human Rights where he as a deft expert presented the case of Hindus of Kashmir who have been ethnically cleansed from their autochhem abodes and are in exile. Arson By the spree of propaganda that they have blazed abroad and the statements that they have blurted out it becomes abundantly clear that the Muslim terrorists are wedded to the cause of Islam which is their soul, faith and driving ideology. As Pandit infidels have no station and role-model in the parochial state of theocracy that is envisaged for Kashmir, they have been ethnically cleansed and ethnic cleansing remains an unfinished agenda if non-Muslims are allowed to retain their abodes in Kashmir which though presently abandoned as a result of their expulsion can be reclaimed through pressures, and intervention from humanistic organisations operating at various levels. With this rationale in view the Muslim militarists have been assiduously busy in destroying the roots of Pandits and. roots as a matter of fact lie deeply embedded in settlements which generate an ethos and a culture pattern. It is to the achievement of sinister end of complete ethnic cleansing and also stalling their return to their land of genesis that all shades of frenzied bigots and dyed-in-the-wool fanatics have embarked upon the policy-path of burning Pandit settlements and the process has been continuously on since 1990. What is being done now is only the replication of their past history. Sayyids way back in the mists of time created waves by decreeing the total destruction of settlements when Kashmiri Pandits at the end of the tether of their patience revolted against severe religious persecution and encroachments on their possessions and assets. As per a survey conducted by a non-government organisation nearly thirty thousand Kashmiri Pandit houses all over the Valley have been torched off thereby rendering one lakh and fifty thousand Pandits homeless and deracine if an average family comprises five members. The Report submitted to the National Human Rights Commission by the Panun Kashmir Movement puts the number of burnt houses of Hindus at 16,000 till 1995. The Government of J&K State have been silent over it as the victims being non-Mulsims are not on its agenda of policy and programme. Under a flawless design of communal diabolerie and chicanery the entire throbbing habitations of ancient origins have been liquidated with no traces left behind. There is no Bana-Mohalla which has been a principal settlement of Pandits with tremendous history in the life and times of Srinagar as an abode of Culture and spirituality. The pre-eminent house of Razdans with Bhaskar Razdan as one of its scions has been burnt to ashes. Bhaskar Razdan is famous for his Sanskrit rendering of Lalla's vakhs in metrical verse. The house of Kokiloos in the same locality stands looted and wiped out. A brilliant ancestor of the family is credited with a work on Sanskrit Grammar which in a manuscript form lies in the Research Library buried and dumped in gunny bags. There is no Rainawari nestling in the creeks and inlets of Dal Lake and more than most the birth-place of Pandit Som Nath Beera who got killed in the hills of Doda while quenching communal fires. There is no Batapora in Shopiyan which was the seminary of a galaxy of nationalists who established educational institutions for Muslims whose descendants have destroyed the locality with a crusading zeal leading to the exodus of Pandit Swaroop Nath, a house-hold name in the district, who died in exile. There is no Gushi in Handwara known as mini-Sharda which has been the cradle of spirituality and folk-lore. The settlement with more than hundred houses has been burnt to cinders by the Muslims gone berserk. Mattan in the District of Anantnag as an ancient site of pilgrimage inhabited by Brahman-priests maintaining historically valuable religious records has been destroyed in blazing fires. Chowagam in the same district is lost to Pandits as Muslim vandals have ravaged and blazed the entire habitation. Zainapora, the home-town of Pandit Rishi Dev, a politician of long standing and Pandit Arjan Dev Majboor, a poet and literatteur, already in exile, was completely wiped out by a frenzied mob of thirty thousand Muslims in the wake of Mast Gul, a Pakistani vandal and brutal lout putting the highly revered shrine of Nanda Rishi to flames. The two families of Pandits staying back in the village were not spared or shown any mercy. Their houses were first ransacked and then set on fire. Muslims hailed Mast Gul by crying hoarse, "Chrar bani hani hani, Mast Gul kati bani- Chrar will be re-built slowly, but Mast Gul is a rare find" and their hurricane fury as usual fell on Pandits and the paper general and his cortege went on watching the orgy of death and destruction befalling Pandits who have not caused portals of governance any anxiety or concern. Languishing in tattered tents, one-room hutments and rented slums, beleaguered Pandits to their shock and dismay have lost their houses in Malayar, Kralakhud, Ganpatyar, Gundahlmar, Brayikujan, Zaindar Mohalla, Jawahar Nagar, Fateh Kadal, Saffakadal and Karan Nagar. Malayar in the city of Srinagar was a huge sprawling cluster of Pandit houses and it has been burnt down in blazing fires. The houses in Ganpatyar locality standing along roadside have been vengefully torched off. Jawahar Nagar having come up as a posh colony with a modern look and planning presents a scenario of a city sacked by the prototypes of Nadir Shah. Houses of Pandits in Zaindar Mohalla and Karan Nagar have met the same fate at the hands of marauders. Babapora with its interior depths touching the shores of Sheel-teng is a horror scene of war-ravaged waste land. Narparistan sunk in a maze of narrow lanes and bye-lanes has been licking its wounds as destruction is wrought on the Pandit houses which are now a pile of charred ruins. The Jehadists as per their delineated plans have not confined their acrid war against the native Pandits to the purlieux of Srinagar, but the hurricane fury of their Jehad in its broad sweep has engulfed their settlements dotting the broad terrain of the valley. Poolie contiguous to the spring of Verinag as a village of Pandit concentration has been obliterated with vengeance. Anantnag with its tremendous Hindu past has lost most of its edifices which were sublime in their heights evoking awe and admiration. Verinag with its pristine waters has been a witness to the gruesome fires which Islamists lit in the Pandit houses for their decimation. The Islamic gun-totters have blazed the houses of Pandits in hamlets surrounding Kokernag which has gone gory with the blood of Pandits. The Muslim arsonists have burnt down Pandit settlements in Kupwara, Baramulla, Safapora, Chingund, Ratnipora, Wahibugh, Tahab, Tengapunna, Wachi, Zablipora, Krandigam, Salar, Tral et al. The twenty eight residential houses of Pandits in Chingund falling in Tehsil Duroo were burnt to ashes by Muslim marauders. Even cowsheds, kothars and other structures were not spared. In the FIR filed by the village chowkidar it is clearly stated that a violent Muslim mob attacked and burnt down all the houses, cowsheds and kothars of Hindus of the village in the wake of Babri Masjid episode. "It is shocking to learn that the wrath against the Kashmiri Pandits has assumed such proportions that those houses, which had already been burnt down and their skeleton structures only stood there, were either again set ablaze or were demolished or razed to the ground," writes Arvind Razdan. The grand old residential house of Pandit Madhav Koul in Anantnag when put to flames was smouldering, smoking and burning for a month's time. It was a massive edifice built in stone, brick and deodar, a real monument speaking volumes for past glory and hence an eye-sore to the Muslim fanatics. The huge building of Pandit Siri Koul had the same style, grandeur and wood-work and when set ablaze it continued burning for days on end till it was said to have been pulled down by looting away its chiseled logs sustaining the weight of the structure. The house of late Nila Kanth Jad was equally a magnificent structure that had been the target of Muslims since Islamic resurgence in Kashmir and finally Muslim cyclone took a toll of it. The house of late Shridhar Joo Kachru at Babapora in Srinagar when set ablaze continued burning and smoking for ten days and the same is confirmed by Muslim witnesses who have oiled and soiled their hands with the loot of the house. Records K.N. Pandita, "Indeed these mute and lifeless objects are dangerous because they embody in their lifeless souls the story of a great civilisation that has been allowed to be systematically destroyed by those very elements in building whose civilisation and identity Kashmiri Pandits made the largest contribution." Grab of Immovable Properties There is a concerted movement going on in Kashmir to dispossess Kashmiri Pandits by grabbing and appropriating their left-behind immovable properties. All evidences, material and documentary purporting their Kashmiri origins, are under a fierce onslaught of Muslims. No government of the day despite innumerable petitions and submissions ever moved in the direction of protecting their properties from destruction or unlawful occupation. The properties which have not been torched off and are yet sending have been grabbed or are in the process of being seized by the grabbies. Not only have properties been illegally appropriated but shameless attempts have been made to forge false and unsustainable documents which have been audaciously presented in the courts to justify or substantiate the grab and surprisingly some cases have come to light where courts have issued stay orders without material evidences and even on the basis of fictitious and false documents hastily contrived. There is a class of grabbies who do not stick to a house which they grab, but go on shifting from house to house as per their sovereign will and their essential targets in the houses are the residues that they lay their sinister hands on. There is another class of grabbies who are more brutal and under religious motivations deem it their right to grab the properties of infidels, who, they believe, are discomfited and have fled the land. Apart from these two classes are herds of intruders who craftily occupy the houses as a first step m the game and subsequently as fait accompli negotiate with the owners through a swarm of touts prowling about Jammu and other metropolises. The Pandit owners when informed of the forcible occupation of their properties are shell-shocked, yet do not take it lying down and submit appeals and plaints in neat language to the concerned authorities in the valley. As the government is and has been in deep paralysis, there is no response to their submissions and plaints which convinces them of the sheer fut~hty of the whole exercise and in despair and desperation are forced to enter into deals at the prices that are offered to them courtesy Muslim touts. The grab and appropriation of Pandit properties which are left behind in the valley has gained so much of momentum that it has virtually assumed a universal character. There is hardly a Mohalla, locality, village or hamlet where properties have not been occupied and grabbed. In Jawahar Nagar alone there are hundred and eight Kashmiri Pandit houses which are under the illegal occupation of Muslims who taking advantage of collapsed state of law and order or in cahoots with broad sections of administration are emboldened for such intrusion, trespass and grab. In the' posh locality of Karan Nagar, a Muslim said to be the Head of a Department is said to have grabbed two houses of a Pandit where he has set up his business venture and is battening at the expense of a hapless fugitive. The case of forcible occupation was said to have been brought to the notice of the then Chief Secretary, Ashok Kumar, who is reported to have cravenly expressed his inability to intervene in the matter thereby legitimising the loot and the crab. The locality of Channapora presents a glaring scenario of the forcible appropriation of Pandit houses where Muslims as a matter of right have been staymg their put without any government agency either obstructing or stalling such violations of law of the land. At Gogji Bagh in the cites of Srinagar the three storyed house of a non-Muslin has been ravaged by one Muslim family leaving and another entering at will. A Muslim said to be a vegetable seller from Qamarwari is said to have carted away all the furniture in the house in broad day-light and surprisingly the Muslim neighbours in their chance meetings at Jammu always assured the Pandit of the safety of the house and other house-hold goods and effects. Presently a leader of a renegade militant outfit has chosen the house for his stay and is at pains to force a deal on the Pandit. There are instances galore establishing that shops, business establishments, tracts of cultivable land and more than most economically lucrative orchards belonging to Pandas have been illegally occupied, grabbed and appropriated. Shops of Pandits in prime commercial sites or areas have been under a constant threat of illegal occupation. From Maharaj Bazar to the end of Residency Road, Srinagar most of the business establishments of Pandits have been intruded, trespassed or occupied. It is also stated that after unlawful occupation, may be in certain cases buttressed by Court verdicts moshy ex-parte, deals were thrust on the Pandits through Muslim touts. Illegal occupations are generally realised through landlord-illegal occupant-admmistration nexus. The sprawling fields of cultivable land and huge thriving orchards have been grabbed by Musluns who share the proceeds in partership with the terrorist outfits and conniving authorities. There are a number of such localities where Muslim hordes vengefully felled the orchards from one end to the other thereby inflicting immense losses on the Pandit owners. The walnut trees generally cultivated within the precincts of Pandit houses have been cruelly felled and wood of the felled trees was kept or disposed of in the markets fetching a lucrative price to the marauders. JKLF Warning The Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front, a banned terrorist outfit, in a bid to establish its so-called secular credentials, has issued a number of warnings to the illegal occupants of shops, business establishments and landed properties belonging to the Pandits and such warnings are a standing and over-arching testimony to the fact of their illegal usurpation by none other than Muslims. Farooqi's Statement In a statement to the press in Jammu, M. Farooqi, leader of the Communist Party of India, suggested that all the left behind properties in Kashmir valley belonging to Kashmir Panda migrants should be declared as 'custodian properties' with a view to rehabilitating them in their native homes and hearths as and when they return to the valley. Appreciative of the government move to take the refugees back to the valley, Farooqi made it amply clear that it could be possible only when their houses are protected (from Muslim marauders) and maintained bit the government In his meeting with the Chief Minister and Finance Minister of the state, Farooqi is said to have broached the subject of the forcible grab of the shop belonging to Janki Dass in Akhara building, Maisuma by a protege of Dr. Karan Singh under the very nose of paramilitary picket which was asked to shift its position through correspondence with B.S.F. authorities by the dejure owner who was keen to re-start his business. To the suggestion to declare Kashmiri Pandit properties as "Custodian properties", the Chief Minister and his Finance Minister to the surprise of Farooqi were said to be in the first instance non-committal and ambivalent. The Migrant Immovable Property Act, 1997 The Migrant Immovable Property Act, 1997 as passed by the State Legislature establishes that the Kashmiri Pandit properties have been ravaged, destructed, arsoned and grabbed by the Muslim majority and the owners of such properties who have been reduced to absolute penury during the eight-year period of exile are forced to dispose of their left-behind assets in the form of denuded houses and cultivable lands and orchards. The Act also establishes the failure of the State and Central Governments in protecting their properties from the practicing marauders who have inherited as bequest a history of rapacity and plunder. The governments could have protected the properties from the Muslim vandals without the formulation of such an Act as there are laws galore which could have been invoked to establish rule of law. It is absolutely shameful that the state which forms a part of Indian territory had to formulate a distinctive Act for the protection of Pandit properties despite citizenship rights that stand sanctified by the sovereign constitution. The governments should have immediately provided protection to the Kashmiri Pandit properties when the Pandits fell victim to the militarised Islam. Now when each habitation has been decimated and landed assets are grabbed the government as an eye-wash has rushed through the legislation without consulting the Kashmiri Pandits. The reality is that the Pandits are m distress and are constrained to sell off the properties to eke out an existence in camps and rented slums. The government should have come out with liberal loans on softer terms thereby enabling the Pandits to tide over the hardships that they are faced with during the period of wretched and unhappy exile. The Act does not stipulate to put the predators and usurpers on trial for offences that they have committed thereby reducing a av~ltsed society to the bottom level of barbarism and expelling even the feeblest ray of modernism and rationality. A Report about vandalisation of Kashmiri Pandit Properties A report in Kashmir Sentinel date-lined Dec. 15,1995 puts: "After the vandalisation, destruction and forcible occupation of Kashmiri Pandit houses, it is now a land grab spree in Kashmir. The lands involved are those of displaced Kashmiri Pandit agriculturists and orchardists who had fled the valley four years back to escape the torture and tyranny of the terrorists. Reports from different parts of the valley say that land holdings of hundreds of displaced KP families have so far been illegally taken over by the local Muslims who manage to get these lands mutated and indications are that hardly any agriculturist will be left with any land in his nan1e in months to come. The fraudulent transfers are being done and legalised by the officials of the State Revenue Department in return for alternative bribes. The method usually adopted by the land grabbers in connivance with Revenue officials, especially the Patwaris, is to get some local villagers as witnesses to testify that the land holdings in question had been sold or transferred by the owners to the concerned villagers. Recently a number of fraudulent land deals came to light when the displaced Kashmiri Pandit agriculturists made enquiries about the fate of their land holdings back in the valley. In one case in Baramulla district a village bully backed by a local terrorist group had not only grabbed the agricultural lands of a KP family, but also had laid his hands on the family's orchard. In another case in the same district the land owned by a Pandit family had been shown as belonging to the state by tampering with Revenue records. Those who had grabbed the land had been entered in the records as rightful owners." The report further adds, "scores of orchards owned by displaced Kashmiri Pandits had fallen into the hands of unscrupulous Muslim villagers who made huge profits which they shared with the local terrorist groups. The land grabbing phenomenon has attained such alarming dimensions now that the State Government has issued a circular to check the fraudulent deeds." The Daily Uqab Srinagar date-lined Nov.27, 1994 reports: - "A large area of land and houses belonging to Kashmiri Pandits near Mohalla Faqir Wani in Baramulla have been taken over by some people and distributed among themselves. There are standing pear, apple and walnut trees in this land. The income from the produce of these trees is pocketed by these people. The police have not registered any case in this respect so far." Representation To The National Human Rights Commission A humanistic organisation dedicated to the restoration of peace in the valley has taken up the case of Abdul Karim vs Brij Lal Tamiri with National Human Rights Commission. Abdul Karim S/o Mohammad Sultan Sheikh, an employee of Military Engineering Service, has illegally occupied the house of Brij Lal Tamiri at Shivapora, Srinagar which has remained vacant after the family fled away from their house in early 1990. After contacting DIG, Kashmir Range, the owner of the house was informed through an ordinary letter dated: 22nd May, 1996 that the illegal occupant had approached the court of city Munsif, Srinagar directing the parties to maintain status quo, thus allowing the illegal occupation of Brij Lal Tamiri's house by Abdul Karim. After a thorough study of the case, the secretary of the NGO, Friends of Kashmir International, submitted a petition dated: 7th July 1996 to Hon'ble Chairman, NHRC, New Delhi which reads as under: "I have been directed by my NGO to seek your Lordships indulgence in a serious matter of violation of human rights of the internally displaced persons from Kashmir valley living in refugee camps in Jammu, Udhampur and other parts of the country since 1990. It has come to the notice of our organisation that there are cases of forcible occupation by the locals of vacant residential houses, shops, cowsheds or hutments of displaced persons from the valley. These occupations are all illegal and unauthorised. In order to regularise forcible and illegal occupation of these places, the entrepreneurs have contrived forged documents and filed suits in courts of law seeking ex-partedecisions to legitimise their forcible occupation. A fraudulent mechanism has been evolved of issuing court summons to the owners. The Honourable courts knowing fully well that respondents being a threatened minority community would not be able to attend its call. What is more, even the summons are invariably not received by the respondents as these do not bear the correct addresses of the displaced persons, or get lost in the ordinary mail. Even the notices issued in local vernacular papers do not reach the displaced persons. Taking undue advantage of the forced absence of the displaced persons far away from their native land for last seven years, their inability to protect their property in absence, their inability to present themselves before any court of law in the valley even if a summon is received by them and lastly unwillingness on the part of state authorities to enforce civil order these illegal occupants move the local courts swiftly to process ex-partedecrees against the displaced persons seeking to dispossess or disinherit them of their properties. In all fairness the local courts should not at all entertain such applications as involve the properties of displaced persons only if justice is to be done. But, somehow, in an unusual situation prevailing in the valley at present even the Honourable Judges would like not to be anything but accommodative even at the cost of Justice. Your Lordship may kindly note that forcible occupation of the vacant houses or shelters of the displaced persons is violation of human rights (the right to property, and shelter) and admission of any case in this regard by a local court in which case an ex-parte decision would be the procedural result is further violation of human rights because it denies the persons involved the chance to be heard owing to circumstances beyond control. Evidently the state government has the responsibility to protect the property of the citizens (that being the constitutional right of all Citizens of India) and if it fails in discharging that duty the displaced persons should not suffer on that count. They are already fouled and it should mean their re-foulment which is not only unjust but also inhuman. As if sending them into forced exile is too small a punishment which must be upgraded to forcible occupation of their property. In the light of what has been submitted our organisation approaches the Hon'ble NHRC with the request that appropriate steps commensurate with the lay.: and charter of human rights be taken at its earliest convenience to stop occupation of the vacant houses and immovable properties of the internally displaced persons from Kashmir either through muscle power or through fraudulent and illegal documentation. We would like to submit that proper steps be taken to give a fair chance to the displaced persons to follow legal proceedings wherever necessary in such cases only in Jammu and not in Srinagar. The threat to life by the armed militants prevents the internally displaced persons from presenting themselves before any court of law in the valley. The government could set up special tribunals in Jammu proper where such cases could be filed and heard. The state Judiciary is expected to demonstrate its responsibility in prevailing extra-ordinary conditions and spare the suffering displaced persons the travail of unnecessary litigation for which they are neither mentally nor financially prepared." In another communication dated September 30,1996 to the Hon'ble Chairman, National Human Rights Commission, New Delhi the Secretary of Friends of Kashmir (India) conveys as under: "We are grateful to the Hon'ble Commission for informing us vice their letter No. 9/73/96-LD of August 1,1996 that the matter of illegal occupation of Pandit houses in Kashmir valley submitted by us on 7th June, 96 has been taken up by the Hon'ble Commisssion with the concerned authorities in the J&K State. However, till date no state authority has contacted us nor do we know what action they would be contemplating to take in the matter. Through our sources we learn that there is a spate in forcible and illegal occupation of Kashmiri internally displaced persons, left behind property by the locals in valley with tacit connivance of sections of administrative and judicial authorities. Fake documents are produced and accepted to claim proprietary rights over their houses, shops and immovable property. Physical absence of the owners from the scene and their continued inability to challenge false claims in a court of law encourages blatant irregalarities. What is more, reluctance of authorities to devise practical and collective safeguards against such lawlessness leading to a state of loot is deplorable. Before we proceed to cite a few more cases, we would like to high-light the methodology employed to legalise false. ownership based on the sample study of the forcible and illegal occupation of the residential house of one Brij Lal Tamiri (case already submitted to the Hon'ble Commission on June 7,1996). These are as under: i) Obtaining stay orders from a court of law even without any proof of the sale of property. ii) when the victim comes to know of fraudulent ownership, the stay order and appeals for transfer of case to Jammu (for security reason), the opposition to the same is voiced on the plea that since the property is located in Kashmir valley it should not be heard by the Hon'ble Court in Jammu. iii) a fictitious name is shown as one of the defendants He may be shown as intermediary for selling and described as a known person, relative or a friend. This serves the purpose of prolonging the case and would at the same time break the resolve of the victim. Then the victim could be forced to agree to distress sale of his rightfully owned property. iv) entire strategy of this litigation revolves round prolonging the case on one pretext or the other, slow down the legal procedure and oppose the case of transfer to Jammu. v) Knowing that occupation of the house of internally displaced persons is illegal, under the grab of sta! order, the occupants resort to a large scale damaging of the house besides looting the left-over goods of the displaced victims. Your lordship, in case of Brij Lal Tamiri, one Maharaj Krishen Watloo has been shown as a dependent, though no person of this name and address exists. No attorney has been given by the owner to anybody for sale of the house or for putting it on tenancy. But the Court has issued stay orders without any proof of purchase by the illegal occupant. This has forestalled the eviction by the police. In the meanwhile the occupant has resorted to a large scale damaging of the construction as the accompanying FIR indicates. Your Lordship, we may be permitted to submit two more cases of forcible and illegal occupation of the left behind houses of internally displaced persons from the valley. In one case, a local English daily named Northlines of 24th August, 1996 has reported that one fruit merchant of district Pulwama in Kashmir contrived fraudulent sale deed of the residential house of Mrs P.G. (name withheld by the newspaper) an internally-displaced person originally residing in Hyderpora, Srinagar. In another case, one Lassa Nath Bhat resident of Gouripora-Rawalpora tehsil and district Badgam in Kashmir valley issued a public notice in Kashmir Times of September 1, 1996 saying that somebody had produced fake documents and claimed the ownership of his left-behind residential house. In view of the seriousness of the violation of human rights, especially the right to property, we are concerned h the matter and approach the Hon'ble Commission could besides holding an independent proble, advise the Government of J&K State to issue orders for : a) Stopping sale of any kind of immovable property of the internally displaced persons from the valley until the time they resume normal life in places of their origin. b) appointing an independent tribunal headed by a High Court Judge based in Jammu. All cases of internally displaced persons' property could be referred to this Tribunal for speedy and summary disposal. c) holding the forcible occupants responsible for damaging the house and looting of immovable property in it. Without a strong legal action this violation of human rights may not be stopped. Many internally displaced persons are lodging FIRs with the police in Jammu stating that their houses/shops/orchards/lands have been fraudulently grabbed by musclemen with the connivance of authorities. As such, the Hon'ble Commission should supervene and stop violation of the rights to property of the displaced persons. As and when more cases come to our notice, we shall submit these to your Lordship for proper disposal." Grab of the Shop of M.K. Dass M.K. Dass and Mrs Sheila Dass were in regular tenancy of a shop in the Akhara building, Maisuma. The shop as alleged is broken open, all medical goods and medicines ham been spirited away and a Muslim is said to have grabbed the shop with the connivance of one Puran Shal1 who manages and overlords the Akhara properties. M.IC. Dass has approached all concerned authorities for the restoration of the shop, but as alleged he is not heard. He coven met the Chief Minister who promised him redressal, but nothing concrete has emerged. His correspondence with authorities makes a curious reading. That the tenant of the shop was in regular tenancy is perhaps substantiated by the letter that the BSF authority wrote to the Divisional Commissioner. The letter reads: No. 311/16/OPS/15BN/96/730 HQ Srinagar Frontier Border Security Force Srinagar (Kmr) 09 Sept. 96 To The Divisional Commissioner, J&K Government Srinagar. Sub:- Removal of Bunker/Payment of compensation in favour of Shri M.K. Dass Prop. M/s Jank Dass and Co. Budshah Chowk, Srinagar. Sir, Please refer to an application submitted by M.K.Dass, Prop. M/s Janki Dass and Co. Budshah Chowk, Srinagar (Copy enclosed for ready reference). 1. In this context, it is to inform you that the matter has been got enquired into depth through concerned Sector DIG/Unit Comdt and reveals following: a) During the year 1992, Security Forces were deployed in Kashmir valley and one bunker was constructed by security forces during that time to deal with militancy in the area in front of AKHARA BUILDING gate. This bunker is strategically covering MAISUMA road as well as dominate Akhara Chowk and adjoining areas. This bunker also provides Security to Akhara building and checks the entry/exist of visitors to Akhara building. b) Since, Maisuma is the backbone of militancy and all sorts of demonstrations/ processions, grenade throwing are planned and conducted by public in Lal Chowk area, therefore presence of this bunker is essential to monitor the movement of the militants/public in the area. 2. The bunker in question is sited at appropriate place and tactically deployed. This bunker of course has obstructed the entrance to M/s Janki Dass and Co. but for Security reasons it is not possible for us to remove the said bunker. Therefore, it is recommended that necessary compensation may be provided to the owner of the Shop, if deemed fit. Yours faithfully sd/-(S.Chanhan) Addl. Deputy Inspector Genl (Operations ) The Inspector General of Police, Kashmir Zone, Srinagar wrote to M.K. Dass which reads as under: Zonal Police Headquarters Kashmir Srinagar No. Crime/Misc/97/1550 Dated: 3.3.1997. M.K. Dass House No.01, Sector No.10 Nanak Nagar Jammu. Please refer your application regarding shop breaking/replacing the shop locks by Puran Shah, Manager, Dashnami Akhara Trust with the assistance of local gundas and looting the medicines from the shop known as Janki Dass and Co. Chemists 16 Akhara building Rudshah Chowk Srinagar. Report called from concerned SP is enclosed. sd/-Inspector General of Police Kashmir Zone.3.3.97 M.K. Das has submitted to the Inspector General of Police, Kashmir Zone as under: To The Inspector General of Police Kashmir Zone. Ref: No. M-2/97/SPE/64246 dated. 27.2.97. Sub:- Complaint against criminal trespass and looting of Goods/Cash records from a Shop M/s Janki Dass and Co. 16, Akhra Building Srinagar. Sirs In reference to above quoted letter on my application A; the application of Mr. M.K. Dass and Mrs. Sheela Dass. I am submitting the following few lines for clarification: 1. That the shop is under the tenancy of Mahraj Krishan Dass and Sheela Dass. It is made clear that the shop under our tenancy belongs to Dashnami Akhra Trust and the tenancy started from 1961. However, earlier also the shop was in our constructive possession before 1961, being partners of a firm "Harker and Co.". 2. It is also made clear that Sh. Janki Nath Dass, Father of M.K. Dass and B.L. Dass and father-in-law of Mrs. Sheela Dass expired in the year "1964" Nov. as such tenancy of the said-shop devolved on Shrimati Janki Devi, widow of Shri Janki Nath Dass-II, Mr. B.L. Dass son of Sh. Janki Nath Dass III M.K. Dass S/o Janki Nath Dass. However it was Sh. B.L. Dass and Shri M.K. Dass who were working in the said-shop as the Proprietors of the firm M/s Janki Dass and Co. 3. That in the year 1990 on account of militancy above mentioned proprietors were forced to stop their business as the shop was located at a vulnerable place known as Budshah Chowk here a permanent BSF post was functioning in front of the shop and the militants used to attack the said-place. 4. It is pertinent to note that in the year 1992 a bunker was constructed by the Security Forces (BSF) to deal with the militancy in front of the shop and thereby obstructed the entrance and exit of customers to the shop. As there was no business conducted in the said-shop and because of militancy myself alongwith other family members shifted to Jammu. I used to visit Srinagar invariably with a purpose to transact my business in the shop as I and other members of the family were dependent on the income of the said-shop. 5. That on account of the increased index of militant acts a Pucca/concrete bunker was constructed completely closing the entry in the said-shop as the huge structure was built in front of the shop. Be that as it may, it is stated that the said-shop was full of medicines and other goods i.e; Thermametcrs, Cotton packs, Bandages, Sythethescopes, BP apparatus, air cushions, hot water bottles, baby soaps, oils and powders, surgical items like scissors, forceps, kidney trays, cadguts, etc. valued Rs. 4.00 lacs. 6. That in this connection I approached Director General BSF and other authorities to shift the bunker to some other site so that I could transact my business in the said-shop but I was not allowed to open or continue my business by the BSF authority for reasons of security of the area as was intimated by them through a despatch dated Sept. 9,1996 addressed to the Divisional Commissioner Kashmir. Moreover, they recommended the case for compensation to be paid to the firm M/s Janki Dass and Co. Nothing of the sort that expired medicines would prove dangerous and was advanced by them to the Management of the Trust was communicated to me which they could have done if the need was. It is worth to note that the concocted story furnished by the BSF authority to the management of the trust is nothing but explains a drama to camalouge their real involvement in this scandalous affair, where monetary consideration cannot be ruled out. 7. That I am in possession of the correspondence letters with the Home Ministry of India/State Governments and other concerned authorities of BSF which clarifies the aforesaid position. 8. That in response to the point mentioning that the firm did not pay any rent to the Management is all false and baseless. The fact is that no such default in payment of the rent has been ever committed either by late Pt. Janki Nath Dass or his predecessors. The firm has paid the rent up-to-date. The last receipt being of 15.11.89, then again a draft of Rs. 10,000/ - on account was sent through a registered draft No. 04183 State Bank of India aft. 27.12.1996 addressed to Secretary Mahadev Giri, Dashnama Akhra Trust, Budshah Chowk, Srinagar but the same was deliberately returned back and avoided without furnishing any reasons by Akhra Management. I again sent the draft to the concerned but it met the same fate with the remarks that the addressee had left the place without leaving any address here which was all fraud and fabricated. As the draft was addressed in the name of Secretary Dashnami Akhara Trust for which a routine office is functioning there was no question that the addressee had left the place. It transpires that Akhara Management in connivance with BSF authorities of the said post/bunker concocted a story of"Emitting foul smell" and wanted to remove the expired medicines from the shop as the chemical could be dangerous in case of any explosion caused near the bunker is only to interfere and induct Manzoor Ahmed Narwari into the said premises as a trespasser and in this deal Puran Shah, Manager of the Trust, the BSF Personnel of the post/bunker and Manzoor Ahmed are party and therefore they are to be criminally prosecuted. It is stated that because of my filing of an FIR they have not succeeded in dispossessing me, but if they are not dealt properly they can succeed in their nefarious designs. It is also stated what business had the Management of the Akhara Trust to break open the lock of my shop and then take out the medicines/goods valued about Rs.4.00 to 5.00 lacs. It is a clear case of trespass and theft. I sincerely feel that the culprits are arrested and immediately punished. Thanking you, Yours sincerely, sd/- (M.K.Dass) sd/- (Sheela Dass) Fraudulent Allotment of Shops by the Executive Officer of Srinagar Municipality Jaydish Lal, Bihari Kak, Vinod Kumar Suri, Manohar Lal Sadhana, and Raman Kumar were the tenants of the shops in the Municipal Building complex, Hazuribagh, Srinagar. As the Muslim terrorism had its thrust against the Kashmiri Hindus, the tenants deserted their shops to take shelter in safer zones. In their absence the Executive Ofticer of Srinagar Municipality, some Ganai, is said to have allotted their shops to Muslims with the result their shops were broken open and goods pilfered or looted. The tenants moved earth and heaven for the redressal of injustice perpetrated on them, but to no effect. They called on the concerned Minister, Molvi Iftikar Hussian Ansari, who is an expert in prevarication and procrastination and has dragged his feet from using the whip of law against the intruders and defaulters for the fact that all involved are of the Muslim brand. In a representation to the Chief Minister the tenants wrote: - a) We were allotted shops in the complex by Srinagar Municipality in the year 1977 for a period of 17 years with the clause that the lease period would be "renewable thereafter in favour of the lessee." b) In the year 1990 we along with lakhs of other members of the minority community were forced to migrate from Srinagar in the wake of wide spread violence. We locked our shops as we could not take them out because of turbulent conditions. c) While in migration we learnt that the shopping complex had been partially gutted in an incident of fire in July, 1990. However some shops including the one belonging to the applicant No.2 remained unaffected by the fire. d) Early this year we learnt that by taking advantage of the absence of the members of the minority community some unscrupulous officials of the Srinagar Municipality were reallotting their shops to third parties without following the process of law or without sending proper notices to the bona fide allottees of the said-shops. e) We have reasons to believe that the papers of allotment have been prepared illegally in a clandestine manner by the Executive Officer of Srinagar Municipality, Mr. Ganai. In certain cases he has also forged the signatures of the earlier Administrator of Srinagar Municipality for illegally allotting the shops to others. f) The shops have been re-allotted at a premium of only Rs.30,000 per shop while the current market value of the shops is around Rs.7 lakhs each. We have authentic information to believe that Mr.Ganai has reportedly accepted Rs.2.00 lakhs per shop as illegal gratification from the illegal allottees of the said-shops. g) In case the shops that were not gutted in fire, the locks were broken open and goods worth lakhs stolen by the said official before allotting the shops to some other person. h) While none of the tenants of the shops of the said complex including those who have been running their business from these shops for all these years has been paying rent to the Srinagar Municipality due to the troubled conditions in the valley. Only the migrants who have at least paid partial rent have been singled out for this treatment. i) In view of the foregoing it will be clear to your goodself that certain officials of Srinagar Municipality have tried to tarnish the image of the administration by acting in a manner contrary to the declared policy statements of the J&K Government as well as the Government of India. While the Union Ministers and bureaucrats belonging to both the Union Government and the State Government have time and again been voicing the resolve of the government regarding return of the Kashmiri migrants to the valley soon, these officials of the Municipality, just in order to make a quick buck, have been working against this policy by making all efforts to ensure that the migrants do not return to the valley. Their action of re-allotment of the migrant shops is one step in this direction. We, therefore, request your goodself to please use your good offices to ensure that the culprits in this case of blatant misuse of power and corruption are brought to book and the shops are restored to the original owners of the said-shops after making good the loss caused to them. Dr. Kashi Nath Ticku's House Grabbed by the Government Department Dr. Kashi Nath Ticku now an octogenarian has been in banishment for the last eight years. It is reliably learnt that he has been spending the evening of his life in Gujrat. He is pained and anguished to learn that his posh house at Jawahar Nagar in Srinagar city has been grabbed. After making thorough enquiries about the grab he learns that it is not a Muslim who has broken open his house and spirited away all the goods from his house but it is a Government Department that has occupied his house in his absence in exile. The Department in the hands of frauds, fanatics and unscrupulous elements has been in occupation of his house for purposes of running a school. Dr. Ticku has been on jaunts to Srinagar to get his house vacated and has been meeting the officers of the Department of Education to ensure the vacation of his house. It was after a long struggle that the officers of the Department agreed to pay him rent since the time the house has been under its occupation. But no rent has been paid to him so far. Every tin1e he flies to Srinagar he has to re-open his case as the officers suffused with communal venom feign ignorance about the illegal occupation. Dr. Kashi Nath Ticku is a doctor be profession and has been vitally linked with the so-called nationalist movement led by Sheikh Abdullah. What his contributions have been to the movement can be learnt from the galaxy of freedom fighters who wore honestly motivated for heralding a new era of democracy, liberalism and religious Catholicism. Felling of Poplars from a Kashmiri Pandit House and Hakim Ghulam Hassan Hakim Ghulam Hassan is said to be a retired judge from the state judiciary. His house near Polytechnic, Gogjibagh, Srinagar is fringed by the house of a Kashmiri Pandit hailing from a respectable family of Mattoos from Rainawari. The house of the Pandit was deserted by the inmates when the Muslim killers started the murder of Kashmiri Pandits as they were labelled as the agents of India and anti-Muslim. It was after a year or so that Hakim Ghulam Hassan is said to have informed his Kashmiri Pandit neighbour that he had sold the poplars growing within the premises of his house for a sum of Rs. 10,000 which he would be remitting to him very soon. The Pandit took Hakim Ghulam Hassan for his word and believed that the money would come to him sooner or later. Rut the hopes of the Pandit were belied. Money never came to him. The Kashmiri Pandit in absolute despair is said to have gone on writing to his Muslim neighbour about the despatch of money. Ghulam Hassan is said to have proved callous and discourteous in not writing back to his Pandit neighbour Ultimately the Kashmiri Pandit is said to have phoned him from Jammu and asked his immediate neighbour to send him the money that had accrued from the sale of poplars. Hakim Ghulam Hassan reportedly informed him that he had deposited the money in the treasury. The Pandit put the word "treasury" to an incisive analysis but could not come to any satisfying rational conclusion. Hakim Ghulam Hassan perhaps meant that the money was deposited in the coffers of Muslim killers who are said to have earned full-scale support and succour from men of his breed. Source: Kashmir: Wail of a Valley by Prof. Mohan Lal Koul From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 17:17:11 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:17:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: <232101.51937.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <4eab87870908110058g6cdc57fco9208399f1ecf6192@mail.gmail.com> <232101.51937.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Kshamendra jee The question is not of not having bias. As a human being, it is certainly normal to have a bias. Shuddha jee is biased towards democracy, Pawan jee is biased towards justice to Pandits and punishment of Yasin Malik, the BJP is biased towards Hindutva way of life, and the Left is biased towards anti-Americanism. (And I am particularly biased towards right to food, and certainly Hindutva politics because of the ideology it espouses) What is important is whether such a bias is justifiable, as Sen says, in the promotion of freedoms and rights to people, which enhance their capabilities and help them to lead their lives as they value. This is where the Hindutva way of life must be condemned because it doesn't allow certain people to lead their lives as they want (and here I am taking out secularists and looking at the problem from the angle of minorities themselves). And this is against human rights, as much as are the activities of the Taliban and the terrorists who live in our own society, enjoy the very same rights as others do, and yet don't allow other to enjoy those rights. And to find out whether such a bias is justifiable or not, public discussion is necessary. This is what allows all of us to decide for our own selves what is justifiable and what is not. I condemn BJP and some of the harsh measures they like to implement in various forms (like anti-terror laws) specifically because they serve the objective of the terrorists themselves, which is to restrict the rights of citizens and make them feel harassed and deprived. That is not what we should give in to Moreover, biases can also change with public discussion. My own bias for pro-BJP was changed once I got to discuss about its policies with other people. Before that, I thought one should be always nationalistic (something like Vedavati jee is). Till I managed to discuss about the issues of course. So what I wish to say is that, if someone can prove that BJP's actions which I am suspicious of, are actually enhancing rights of citizens and their freedoms, please go ahead and we may think about it certainly. Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 17:22:25 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:22:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908110058g6cdc57fco9208399f1ecf6192@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560908100331n1c28c00ehd849fbf88e866741@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908100810j766969d0x1b464193a0ab87b3@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908101002x698d621cm487a41db8443c0c3@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908102106g5defbdf1ya60501c204dda9f6@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908110058g6cdc57fco9208399f1ecf6192@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Murali ji The nefarious activities of the Mughals (assuming you are true), can't be totally washed away. If it can be properly proved and publicly debated as well, (after a proper intellectual debate on the subject, that is), we can certainly condemn it. But I dont' see what we can do other than that, except for learning lessons from it and vowing not to repeat it again. The RSS exists as we live our lives, and if these are the activities which are going to happen, we will be responsible towards our future generations as well for making them live in an insecure environment. And we as a society are also having a conscience and are responsible towards our own selves. Therefore, it must be our objective to root such kind of ideologies which promote the unfreedoms of others and make them live lives of deprivation and incapabilities, which is against the very basis of human rights and even Indian culture, as it has stood in its times. As for Akbar, who cares? Regards Rakesh From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Aug 11 17:24:39 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:54:39 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?=93Regulatory_compliance_requireme?= =?windows-1252?q?nts_will_drive_future_technology_spending=94?= Message-ID: <65be9bf40908110454r69da9cd5n9debc53ae21cb0b@mail.gmail.com> http://www.expresscomputeronline.com/20090810/market05.shtml “Regulatory compliance requirements will drive future technology spending” Kalpesh Desai, CEO, Agile Financial Technologies, spoke to Nivedan Prakash about trends in the banking industry and his company's foray into the Indian microfinance business Has the Indian banking industry come of age and what role has IT played in it? I think we must give credit to the RBI for inducting IT into Indian banks through its two committee reports on the subject (known as the Rangarajan Committee reports) in the 1980s, which was characterized as an era in which Indian banks embraced IT. The growth driven by expansion to untapped geographies continued unabated, resulting in near backlogs of management information systems (MIS). At this time, there was virtually no competition in the Indian banking market, which by IT usage was divided into foreign banks, large Indian banks with product level automation in branches, some rudimentary corporate computerization and a large expanse of private and co-operative banks in manual mode. The in-house IT infrastructure in most Indian banks at the time consisted of software running on UNIX boxes and terminals installed at controlling offices. They were largely used for batch processing using COBOL. All software running on these UNIX boxes was custom built. Then came the 1990s and the first change was the adoption of Basel I recommendations that brought credit risk management and capital adequacy into sharp focus for the first time. Further in 1994, new private banks were allowed to incorporate. Towards the close of the decade, Y2K doomsday fears largely fuelled the demand for IT services and products in the Indian banking industry. It was the RBI, once again, which prompted action. In 1994, it forced public sector banks to begin total computerization of their branches and made it a pre-condition for granting licenses to new private banks. This paved the way for the entry of branch banking software enabled by Core Banking Solutions (CBS). Electronic Bill Presentment & Payment (EBPP) and Internet Banking offerings also made their appearance. What are the key technologies that have been used by Indian banks? While leading foreign banks and a few next generation private banks in India had adopted centralized banking products in the 1990s, the centralized banking scene in India got its wind up in the beginning of the current millennium, once the Y2K battle was over. Then came the phase (which still continues) of compliance and risk related software products such as anti-money laundering, analytics, and the associated infrastructure, including data warehousing and data mining capabilities. In the last few years, almost all banks in India have adopted CBS technology, and gone on to set up ATM networks, Internet banking, RTGS systems, and mobile banking. A number of banks today are considering investments in niche software that will allow them to tap existing opportunities in microfinance. With banks now falling over each other to acquire customers, [both retail and corporate], customer relationship management systems are seeing a lot of traction. Additionally, the need for regulatory compliance will drive future technology spending. The centrestage has therefore been captured by risk management, payment systems, business intelligence and managed services. Do you see a market opportunity in the Indian microfinance vertical? As in other developing countries, most Microfinance Institutions (MFIs) lack the infrastructure, both technological and physical to ensure that their objectives of financial inclusion are covered. We desire to collaborate with financial institutions that can reach into rural and urban areas and offer our software as a platform through them to service these MFIs. The key pain areas of these MFIs are the absence of appropriate technology for customer/member enrollment; strong credit scoring tools particularly since there is little or no collateral provided by micro-entrepreneurs; limited reach into the rural and urban areas to facilitate collections and other transactions; the need to deploy biometric/smart card authentication technology for member identification and verification; compliance with statutory bodies; and reporting back to donor institutions. We can resolve these issues by provisioning our software as a service solution and provisioning of mobile handheld devices that would help in capturing transactions in the field. Working with partner institutions that can collect moneys and deposits on behalf of the MFIs, the model that we will pursue is to share in the fee income of these institutions. Agilis Universal Microfinance Solution is multientity and can help a partner financial institution to service multiple MFIs. What solution do you have for the Indian microfinance industry? A microfinance institution is a sustainable business considering the spread between the cost of sourcing funds and the interest/profit charged to borrowers. The non-performance asset ratio is substantially low in this sector, particularly due to the peer pressure present amongst borrowers, who tend to approach MFIs in groups. We can ensure that our state-of-the-art technology can be made both accessible and affordable for MFIs to adopt, allowing them to become a lot more agile in their operation and focus on their core business of financial inclusion and welfare. Our pricing mechanism which is to partake in the fee income would ensure that there are little or no upfront costs for the MFIs, leaving much needed capital to be deployed where it was original intended, which is to increase the lifestyle of the micro-entrepreneur and to facilitate the micro-business. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Aug 11 17:28:50 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:58:50 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] MNIC: Parliament Questions - 32 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908110458h4c0c11fcgf118805596f3c55f@mail.gmail.com> http://164.100.47.132/LssNew/psearch/QResult13.aspx?qref=33012 GOVERNMENT OF INDIA MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS LOK SABHA UNSTARRED QUESTION NO 4404 ANSWERED ON 18.12.2001 ISSUANCE OF ISLANDER`S IDENTITY CARDS 4404 . Shri BISHNU PADA RAY (a) whether the Andaman and Nicobar Administration is going to get survey of population for issue of Islander`s Identity Cards as recommended by the District Planning Committee; (b) if so, the time by which the proposed survey is likely to be conducted; and (c) if not, the reasons for non-acceptance of the District Planning Committees` recommendation ? ANSWER THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (CH. VIDYASAGAR RAO) (a) to (c): Yes, Sir. A suggestion was made in one of the meetings of the District Planning Committee to assign the survey of the population for issuance of Islanders` Identity Cards to students but the Committee did not eventually make any formal recommendation to this effect. The A&N Administration have decided to conduct the survey through Government servants on the same basis as was done in connection with the Census of India, 2001 operations and Intensive Revision of the Parliamentary Electoral Rolls. The Survey is tentatively scheduled to be held in the month of February, 2001 with a revisional round in March, 2002. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Aug 11 17:30:27 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:00:27 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] MNIC: Parliament Questions - 33 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908110500n47140e3el4d9c40db8ef04bd6@mail.gmail.com> http://164.100.47.132/LssNew/psearch/QResult13.aspx?qref=37459 GOVERNMENT OF INDIA MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS LOK SABHA STARRED QUESTION NO 227 ANSWERED ON 19.03.2002 ISSUE OF IDENTITY CARDS 227 . Shri NEDURUMALLI JANARDHANA REDDY SHYAMA SINGH (a) whether the Government propose to issue identity cards/citizen cards to all the citizens of the country to check the illegal migration; (b) if so, the details thereof; (c) whether the Union Government have taken a decision to issue tamper proof Identity Cards to all the villagers living in the 10 k.m. border belt to check infiltrators from the various borders; (d) if so, the details in this regard; (e) whether any criteria has been fixed for issuance of such Identity Cards; (f) if so, the details thereof; (g) whether any time schedule has been fixed to complete the task; and (h) if so, the details thereof? ANSWER MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS ( SHRI CH. VIDYASAGAR RAO ) (a)to(h): A statement is laid on the Table of the House. STATEMENT REFERRED TO IN REPLY TO LOK SABHA STARRED QUESTION NO.227 DUE FOR ANSWER ON 19TH MARCH, 2002 (a)to(h): A proposal to issue Multipurpose National Identity Cards (MNICs) to Indian citizens, including the people residing in the border areas of the country, is receiving the Government`s attention. These cards apart from providing a credible identification system, may have multifarious uses. The issue of MNICs would involve creation of an identification system for more than one billion citizens, streamlining the existing machinery for the registration of births and deaths at the grass root levels and choices of institutional as well as technological options for the creation of an integrated data base of personal identities capable of being continuously updated. The Government would finalize its decision only after an in-depth examination of all relevant issues and after making necessary preparations, including the legal backing to the scheme. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 17:43:04 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:43:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] China should break up India: Chinese strategist In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908110309n4dc26b36p7494c5b3b975120d@mail.gmail.com> References: <187420.86596.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908110309n4dc26b36p7494c5b3b975120d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear all Chinese strategists, by publishing such articles, constantly prove that they are a part of the group which comprises the biggest fools of the world. The reason why India exists as one is not so much the appeasement or the Hindu religion factor, but the fact that India is a democracy. Considering that India has the third largest Muslim population in the world, and has close to 15% of minority population in the country, if people of these religions felt that they are threatened in India, they would have either left the country (in the case of Muslims, during Partition) or would have participated in clandestine activities to destroy the country totally ( like more blasts or more riots or attacks). Instead, even in riots, it's Muslims who have suffered, and yet there have not been that many blasts or that frequent ones as one would have thought if the above mentioned were the case. By and large, Muslims do believe in the sense of fairness and justice in Indian democracy, and they realize that the unfairness in the system exists despite religious differences, that is, it is directed for all rather than people of particular religions. The same is true for Christians and other minorities as well. The problem is with China to a fair degree (India also creates problems but not of the kind I am expressing now). If China would have been a democratic nation, so many people (approximately one-sixth of population of the world) would not have been living with denial of political and social freedoms. Chinese state has to constantly keep their people under state of oppression and make-shift state-controlled news media to ensure that people don't revolt against the state. At least the Indian media is able to counter the govts. on various issues, and these govts have been of different political inclinations and arrangements (coalition, single party based, BJP led, Cong led, Left led and so on). Whereas for China, they are in a double disadvantage position in a conflict with India, because unlike India where the central govt has a democratic standing at least, the Chinese govt does not have it, and there can be situations of managing internal revolt and external attack at the same time, something that is very difficult in India. Chinese state feels that India is jealous of them for their growth. I feel that we should not be jealous but should be learning from the good and bad of their policies. China has fooled itself into believing that they will be able to dominate the world on the basis of their military power. The fact is that China is considered strong because of its economic power (and somewhat because of its relevance in negotiations with North Korea for the US). What they don't realize is that not only do people have the ability to self distruct, but also that people would never succumb to oppression on a constant basis. The happenings in Xinjiang province a few months ago, as well as those in Tibet, bear testimony to that. But then, the only answer China has to that is force. Probably instead of concentrating on breaking up India (which is a laughable claim from them with the Indian state being quite powerful and democracy functioning very well), they should concentrate on bringing democracy in China which can help in development of all. Infact, to our credit, the Indian democracy succeeded in bringing an NREGA in India, much before China could bring the 'New Deal' for reconstruction in China of infrastructure which could help in bringing employment for the poor (and yet, employment is not a right there). And if still the priorities of Chinese state are Tawang and breaking up India, they can continue living in a fool's world, and my sympathies are with ordinary Chinese citizens. If I may say so, it's much easier to break up China because what you have to do is to create a sense of conflict between minorities and majority (Han Chinese), from the nationalist point of view, and their authorities won't be able to control it (no democracy there, so there will be no settlement and listening to minorities as well). Whereas in India, that would not be the case. And it's the Right in India, rather than the Left which threatens to destroy this arrangement, because they want subjugation of the minorities rather than trying to become a right-of-centre party. And by Right, you all would probably understand whom I am referring to. Regards Rakesh From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Tue Aug 11 18:00:37 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:00:37 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn In-Reply-To: <52685.69679.qm@web94701.mail.in2.yahoo.com> References: <4eab87870908102121l1aaeebe9h667234948d9261a2@mail.gmail.com> <112204.96303.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908110103t17c93beawef26aceaef311d32@mail.gmail.com> <52685.69679.qm@web94701.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <635024.97325.qm@web94705.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Hashmi dd not complaint against one person alone, being a popular actor, especially in the present youth he forwarded a point. There's nothing wrong in not lending your house to a mohammadan. There's nothing wron when a MOHAMMEDAN STANDS AND SHELTERS EXCLUSIVELY ANOTHER, BE HE A TERRORIST! I do not support terrorist but if your logic alone need work, sheltering terrorist is nt a crime. . ...... ________________________________ From: subhrodip sengupta To: Murali V ; Rakesh Iyer Cc: Sarai List Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 3:15:02 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn Dear all, Thanks for your interesting comments which does not let one fall silent. Let me go by your arguments, a group of Brahmins, possibly marathis who are vegetarians. So, what makes up a hindu bramhin, things he /she does, a lower acste what they do....... One wont believe it nowadays, but more than five decades ago, Muslims were marked by their consumption of onion, and in reverse, only lower caste and Muslims swere supposed to consume raw onions! Then I assume these BRahmins, or god knows whoever they are; are discriminating against not only muslims alone........................................... Fine for those who believe Constitution is just another book of rules which need to be bent as we like, Article on equality is very clear on this, but for those who look for social consciousness and outcomes, it's not just distracting, but rather alarming. How will these people live when one of their daughter's shall reveal she has had had sex with a mohammedan and a christian, apart from 3 other hindu boys? Will then they resort to more basic methods of public retribution and disgracing? Alas. Interestingly nether the fal wallahs nor the sweepers are Brahmins........... As for Beef consumption, Consumption of nothing in my house can make yours impure, these society wallahs, should have more sense than conducting Raam Leelas, Hanuman pujas , where interestingly revel is there, something which they stay should be behind doors.,........... I have beef inside my house no strong smell disturrrbs you, it's finer than lift does not work, water supply does not come, to the latter they should restrict their problem. What about consumption of liquor. Then they should have things like surprise checks. Let me not go into frivolous things, if the argument is correct, they are actually committing a bigger crime, a prejudice and friction against a bigger section of society. About Hashmi: Any one who now a days stands up is first accused of trying to attain cheap publicity, even shiny ahuja's maid! Fine as a statement from dominant ones who'd else loose power, but we buying into such things. Things are pretty clear it is assumed.......(on what basis?) He has been a bold-based actor. Is it less amusing that his case such people as who date married, women, bring in joys, challenge social perceptions, or even do bold roles in movies are cheap. But lest be sure lets pass one resolution, they are not prostitutes, many of us would have to apply for license then, being students orf social experiments.......... Regards,(hopefully I got more audience for this despicable, cheap actor who behaves like what onstage)   & LOVE Subhrodip ________________________________ From: Murali V To: Rakesh Iyer Cc: Sarai List Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 1:33:10 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn If I were to explain further on Malik's statement, If somebody is rejected because of being a non-vegetarian, and if the person happens to belong to a minority community, I am sure, it would be twisted to be one because of being in the community and all hell would be let loose by the Pseudo-seculars and the media. Regards, V Murali On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > I only hope it's for the sake of disallowing the non-vegetarians and not > for disallowing the Muslims. > > > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>       Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 18:29:01 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:29:01 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 11 Message-ID: Financial Daily from THE HINDU group of publications Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 ------------------------------ - Home - News Update *News* - Corporate - Markets - Info-Tech - Marketing - Money & Banking - Agri-Biz & Commodities - Industry & Economy - Logistics - Government - Opinion - Variety - Corporate Results - Columns - Index - Archives *Features* - Investment World - eWorld - Catalyst - Mentor - Life - Canvas - Praxis - Urban Pulse - Brand Quest *Stocks* - Quotes - SE Diary - Scoreboard - Open-End Mutual Fund *Port Info* - Ships in Ports *Archives* - Yesterday - Datewise - Resources *Group Sites* - The Hindu - Business Line - The Sportstar - Frontline - The Hindu eBooks Opinion - WTO * Towards Cancun WTO Ministerial — Bring subsidy issue back into focus * * Devinder Sharma * AT PROBABLY the last officially organised public symposium in Geneva (June 16-18) before the forthcoming WTO Ministerial at Cancun in early September, the writing was clearly on the wall: Agriculture has for all practical purposes been abandoned in the ongoing multilateral negotiations. And with this cleverly manipulated turnaround ends the final hope for billions of small and marginal farmers in the developing world who were initially promised the stars when the WTO was formally launched on January 1, 1995. Eight years later, their dreams have been shattered. Swamped by a surge in food imports, and with their respective governments agreeing to further lower the tariffs, it is only a matter of time before the collapse of agriculture in the developing world triggers massive displacements from the rural areas. The big boys have done it again. After Doha, where the US, the European Union and the Cairns Group of grain exporting countries managed to stage a coup of sorts by committing nothing more by way of reduction in their mammoth agricultural subsidies, the focus of the ongoing negotiations has been very conveniently shifted to market access and its modalities. Except for a regular mock drill of a `tit-for-tat' over subsidies and domestic protection that is staged so eloquently by the EU and the Cairns group, the underlying emphasis remains on prising open the developing countries to provide increased market access. At Geneva too, Mr Mark Vaile, Minister of Trade for Australia (part of the Cairns Group), and Ambassador Luzius Wasescha of Switzerland (keen to protect subsidies) did regale the audience with scathing charges and counter-charges. Trading charges in open fora are surely meant for the public galleries, the hidden agenda for both the blocks being to protect their highly subsidised (and protected) agriculture. The public postures notwithstanding, the US/EU have a history of arriving at a compromise to protect their economic interests, and every other country is then made to fall in line. But what has become more significant during the post-Doha phase is the co-option of the developing countries and the civil society groups in the process of hijacking the `Agreement on Agriculture' (AoA). The AoA hinged precariously on eliminating agriculture subsidies as a basic step in getting the fiscal house in order. Knowing well that any reduction in subsidies would be politically suicidal, the developed countries managed to not only maintain the level of subsidies but, in fact, succeeded in increasing it manifold. At the same time, they continue to arm-twist the developing countries to reduce tariffs and open up markets for farm goods from the industrialised countries. Shifting the focus to increased market access or what some negotiators call `over-ambition' on market liberalisation became the rallying point. Agricultural subsidies have been simply pushed to the backburner. The only way to escape reduction commitments was to divert attention to market access, special safeguard mechanisms, tariff rate quotas, and strategic products. Mr Stuart Harbinson, chair of the agricultural negotiations, presented his first draft of possible modalities for the agriculture negotiations on February 12. This was the culmination of the post-Doha negotiations and the paper reflected a compromise formula based on the conflicting positions of the governments. A second draft was released on March 18, just before the self-imposed deadline of agreeing to new modalities by March 31. Harbinson actually has no mandate to present such drafts in his own `individual' capacity. But he did, and no country objected. The presentation of such drafts and, still worse, the numerous proposals being put forward by the chairman of the councils, has in reality marginalised the developing countries' ability to negotiate and exert pressure. In other words, Mr Stuart Harbinson had very cleverly proposed a formula that actually aims at seducing the developing countries with the promise of an increased market access into the rich industrialised countries. In addition, he provided to the developing countries another lollipop — the option to classify a number of `strategic products' with respect to food security, rural development and/or livelihood security concerns. Unfortunately, the developing countries were trapped by the discussions around the new special safeguard mechanism that he had proposed, without realising that the mechanism does not first remove the `special safeguards' provisions under Article 5 of the AoA, which is a privilege enjoyed by only 21 developed countries, including the US. The concept of `strategic products' is merely a proxy for the `development box'— a proposal that will eventually turn out to be more damming if implemented. More and more countries have lately understood the dangers of supporting the `development box' and have, by and large, backed out. The `strategic product' concept, therefore, is equally harmful for the developing countries. The Agreement does not realise that production of crops and its imports into developing countries cannot be equated with industrial production. This is a mistake which was earlier committed also by some Indian macro-economists, when they computed agriculture trade in the same manner as they would assess the scooter manufacture or bicycle production capacity of industrial units. Although Harbinson did propose minor tinkering in the composition of subsidies in blue box and the amber box, it is no significant. Such rope tricks have been earlier performed, and will continue to be performed to hoodwink the developing countries into believing that the rich countries are moving in the right direction. The European Union, in 1995-96, had provided $48 billion under `amber box' subsidies and another $40 billion under `blue' and `green box' subsidies. In 2002, it shifted and juggled the figures to provide $34 billion in `amber' box and $52 billion as `blue' and `green box' subsidies. The net subsidy level, however, did not show any significant shift, and, in fact, remained almost at the same levels: $88 billion moving to $86 billion. On the other hand, Cairns group has vociferously campaigned for the elimination of food subsidies and for increased market access. They claim that they do not provide any agricultural subsidy and still trade at competitive prices because of high efficiency. In reality, the talk of high quality of farm produce is only for academic purposes and trade negotiations. The fact remains that Australia and New Zealand have dumped sub-standard agriculture produce on developing countries, including India. Wheat and soya from Argentina has been tested to be sub-standard a number of times. It is simply because of the inability of the developing countries to have adequate monitoring facilities for checking quality of food imports that the claims of these countries remain unchallenged. Regardless of the commitments being reached at the WTO negotiations, the US merrily goes on flouting these under one pretext or the other. The world is expected to behave like an ostrich when it comes to the WTO violations from the world's only supercop. Whether it is the additional federal support of $180 billion for the next 10 years that has been promised for American farmers, or the grant of $110 million for export promotion that has recently been announced, the WTO seems helpless. It is clear that the US and the European Union (along with Japan, Switzerland and South Korea) are not going to phase out, what to talk of eliminating, agriculture subsidies. Harbinson's proposal for elimination of export subsidies (not all subsidies) over the next ten years is, therefore, no sop to the developing countries. For the developing countries, the need of the hour is not to be lured by diversion tactics that the rich and industrialised often resort to. The focus has to be brought back to the elimination of agriculture subsidies as a pre-requisite to further negotiations. The modalities that developing countries need to ensure are: *Zero subsidies*: Developing countries must strive for the elimination of all agricultural subsidies. Subsidies under all boxes — green box, amber box and blue box — need to be first abolished before any more commitments are made. Agriculture negotiations should only be confined to the timeframe under which these subsidies can be removed. Along with farm subsidies, the monumental subsidies provided for freight also need to be disciplined. *Market access*: No further concession on market access till the subsidy issue is resolved. The new special safeguard mechanisms, including the denomination of `strategic products', need to be debunked. Strategic products do not protect the socio-economic interests of the developing nations. Peas, for instance, are strategic to India's food security. But its import has increased four times in the past four years. *Quantitative restrictions (QRs): *Developing countries need to be allowed the same provisions of the special safeguard mechanism that protects agriculture in 21 rich countries from import surges. In addition, developing countries should have the right to re-impose quantitative restrictions that in reality are the only measures that protect food security and the livelihoods of millions of small farmers. *Multilateral agreement against hunger*: Among the new issues to be introduced at Cancun, the developing countries need to strive for the inclusion of a multilateral agreement against hunger. This should be based on the guiding principle of the right to food and should form the basis for all future negotiations. Such a multilateral agreement would ensure that countries will have the right to take adequate safeguard measures if their commitment towards the WTO obligations leads to more hunger and poverty. (The author is a New Delhi-based food trade policy analyst.) * * * * Article E-Mail:: Comment:: Syndication *Stories in this Section* Larsen's legacy ------------------------------ The EU push to development finance ------------------------------ Cartagena Protocol — A wake-up call for biosafety ------------------------------ National Tax Tribunal — The mirage of better efficiency ------------------------------ Getting women into Parliament — Why the quota system is crucial ------------------------------ How not to measure FDI ------------------------------ Towards Cancun WTO Ministerial — Bring subsidy issue back into focus ------------------------------ VAT and its effects ------------------------------ Need for transparency ------------------------------ ------------------------------ The Hindu Group: Home | About Us| Copyright | Archives| Contacts | Subscription Group Sites: The Hindu | Business Line| The Sportstar | Frontline| The Hindu eBooks | Home| Copyright © 2003, The Hindu Business Line. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of The Hindu Business Line ------------------------------ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 18:40:52 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:40:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 11 Message-ID: Online edition of India's National Newspaper Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 [image: Google] ------------------------------ ------------------------------ *Opinion* News: Front Page | National | Tamil Nadu| Andhra Pradesh | Karnataka| Kerala | New Delhi| Other States | International| Opinion | Business| Sport | Miscellaneous| Engagements | Advts: Classifieds | Jobs| Obituary | Opinion - Leader Page Articles [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] * ICDS — The entitlement of every Indian child * Nirmala Lakshman * The role of ICDS as an instrument to secure children's right to food cannot be overstated. In States like Tamil Nadu, its functioning has yielded positive results. * A RECENT broad spectrum poll by Reuters that placed India as being the sixth most dangerous place in the world for children is in some ways uncomfortably close to the truth. Danger to children's lives need not necessarily come from gunfire or from buried landmines; nearly half the children who die in early childhood in India do so from malnutrition. India has a staggeringly high rate of children suffering from malnutrition. One in three malnourished children of the world lives in India, and malnutrition is more common here than in Sub-Saharan Africa. Figures of under-five mortality, underweight children, primary school enrolment, and basic health indicators have not shown any substantial improvement over the last decade. In fact, many of these indices record a downslide that underlines ironically the precariousness of childhood in one of the fastest growing economies of the world. The consequences of early childhood malnutrition are well known and include physical and mental impairment that severely affect a child's growth and development. Civil society's response to crises like persistent hunger, malnutrition, corruption, the lack of accountability and poor governance has grown over the last few years, for instance through successful application of the Right to Information and the Rural Employment Guarantee Act. However, the lack of attention from policy makers and elected representatives to the grave and burgeoning crisis of malnutrition continues. This is clearly reflected in the status of the Integrated Child Development Services (ICDS), whose functioning is uneven in States across the country. ICDS includes immunisation, supplementary nutrition, health and nutrition education, growth monitoring, pre-school education and referral services. In States like Tamil Nadu, its functioning has yielded positive results. It is the only programme that extends from pregnant women and nursing mothers to cover infants and children up to the age of six. Its role as an instrument to secure children's right to food cannot be overstated. The right to food is included in the right to life, an inviolable right as guaranteed by Article 21 of the Constitution. The Supreme Court in a historic judgment in November 2001 recognised that the right to food is justiciable, and that governments have a duty to prevent hunger, malnutrition and starvation. The judgment came in the wake of severe droughts and starvation deaths while buffer stocks were rotting in the Food Corporation of India (FCI) warehouses. Among other orders, the Court ordered that the ICDS must be made universal to cover *every Indian child under the age of six years*. Universalization of the ICDS means that every habitation should have a functional *anganwadi* centre (AWC) and apart from children below six, the services should cover all adolescent girls as well as pregnant women and nursing mothers. In 2004, the Supreme Court gave further directions on strengthening the ICDS. Late last month, two Commissioners appointed by the Supreme Court, N.C. Saxena and Harsh Mander, submitted their update report on the progress towards universalization of the ICDS. They expressed grave concern that the orders of the Court have not been implemented and, worse, the Government has "challenged the basic principles of universalization outlined in these orders." This contradicts the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) Government's commitment in the Common Minimum Programme (CMP) which states that "the UPA will universalize the ICDS scheme to provide a functional *anganwadi* in every settlement and ensure full coverage of all children." Currently there are only about 7 lakh *anganwadis* across the country. The Commissioners state that even a conservative estimate of the requirement of 14 lakh AWCs submitted to the Court was not accepted by the Government of India, and in early 2006 the Government rejected the figure stating that it was based on a survey of drinking water facilities in which every population cluster of 250 persons is considered a separate habitation. The Commissioners point out that with such a ratio (population to AWCs), the number of AWCs will actually stand at a higher number, that is about 40 lakh. The figure of 14 lakh based on an old official norm of one AWC for every 1000 persons is in itself grossly inadequate. The National Advisory Council (NAC) had also submitted a report to the Government of India which found that 14 lakh AWCs would be required in rural areas and another 3 lakh in urban areas. The Commissioners' report says that although the official norm of one AWC per 1000 persons has been "accepted," it is in reality not at all adequate. They explain that based on the 2001 Census figures, a habitation of 1000 persons would have around 150-160 children below six, 35-40 pregnant women or nursing mothers and 75-80 adolescent girls. How then, they ask, will it be possible for a single * anganwadi* worker to provide services to such a large number? Even if a second *anganwadi* worker is posted in each AWC, as numerous evaluations have recommended, the norm of one AWC per 1000 would be quite conservative. Another serious lacuna according to the Commissioners is that the Government of India failed to specify the time frame within which the ICDS would be extended to all children below six as directed by the Supreme Court. Given the mammoth nature of the task, the Commissioners suggest a one-year time frame for covering all Scheduled Castes/Scheduled Tribes (SC/ST) hamlets and three years for universal coverage. The percentage of undernourished children among these populations stands at 53.5 per cent and 55.9 per cent respectively. They also stress the need to extend ICDS services to children living in urban slums, such as the children of migrant workers who may not have proper addresses or identity documents. Exemplifying this view, recent data from ICDS shows that in Mumbai over 50 per cent of the under-six are malnourished, with a large proportion suffering from severe malnutrition. Food insecurity is therefore a growing phenomenon, with islands of deprivation in the midst of an ocean of plenty. Considerable difference However, as a field survey called Focus On Children Under Six (FOCUS) conducted in 2004 in six States revealed, an effective ICDS programme can make a considerable difference in the lives of nutritionally compromised children. For instance, the ICDS functioning in Tamil Nadu, when compared to five other States, (Chhattisgarh, Uttar Pradesh, Maharashtra, Rajasthan and Himachal Pradesh) was far better in terms of indicators such as longer opening hours, the number of infants in the under three age group who attend regularly, basic infrastructure facilities and salaries paid regularly to the AWC workers. The quality of services including pre-school education, supplementary nutrition, health and immunisation services was found to be satisfactory by nearly 90 per cent of the mothers who used these services. According to economist Jean Dreze, who was associated with the FOCUS survey, one reason for the success of ICDS in Tamil Nadu is that "women have helped to make health and nutrition political issues, and also hold the system accountable". Anuradha Rajivan, currently senior economist with the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) says that "Tamil Nadu politics has retained the combating of hunger and malnutrition as one of its priorities, well before judicial intervention triggered responses at the Centre" adding that the State "is on the verge of establishing child rights to nutrition security," and emphasising that malnutrition "is a problem wider than poverty." The emergence of a rights perspective with regard to the well-being of children has a direct effect on policy implementation as the example of Tamil Nadu so aptly demonstrates. Ms. Rajivan calls this a `sandwich' situation where pressure from above in the form of political will and pressure from below through wide public acceptance and expectation, with a wide network of services in between sustains these programmes. The FOCUS survey reveals that other States like Maharashtra are also catching up with Tamil Nadu. Other studies suggest that in States like Jharkhand and Bihar, already plagued by issues of poor governance, the ICDS has not fared well and has even faced severe disruptions. The Food Insecurity Atlas of Rural India, an initiative of the M.S. Swaminathan Research Foundation (MSSRF), suggests that in some States like Rajasthan the poorest are actually not even covered by the programme. Dispersed marginal households and tribal hamlets tend to get left out. The patchiness of the current state of ICDS notwithstanding, "the FOCUS survey draws attention to the enormous potential of ICDS," as Jean Dreze puts it. "The sensible way to go," he says, "is to make better use of this potential, given that the foundations of ICDS are already in place throughout the country." The universalization of the ICDS as the Court-appointed Commissioners pointed out has to be a time and action bound programme with improved norms consistent with the idea that all children and eligible women will have access to its services. It is also imperative that the ICDS remain a government programme without any invasion of private interests. The UPA Government must adhere to the commitment made in the CMP on the universalization of the ICDS. The UPA chairperson, Sonia Gandhi, in a recent speech said, "It is now time for aggressive political activism on behalf of children", and this must happen. The legal enforcement of state accountability, policy initiatives by State Governments and public activism are all required to push this agenda firmly forward to establish the entitlements of the nation's children. * * Printer friendly page Send this article to Friends by E-Mail ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Opinion News: Front Page | National | Tamil Nadu| Andhra Pradesh | Karnataka| Kerala | New Delhi| Other States | International| Opinion | Business| Sport | Miscellaneous| Engagements | Advts: Classifieds | Jobs| Obituary | Updates: Breaking News | *News Update* Stories in this Section - The LTTE's war trap - DDT and malaria control - ICDS — The entitlement of every Indian child - The Mumbai death cells - On the highway to prosperity - Corrections and clarifications - Genes, ancestry, and where we came from - Massive environmental damage in Lebanon - `India will not kneel' - The human story - Unwise move Archives Yesterday's Issue Datewise Features: Magazine Literary Review Metro Plus Open Page Education Plus Book Review Business SciTech Friday Review Young World Property Plus Quest ------------------------------ The Hindu Group: Home | About Us| Copyright | Archives| Contacts | Subscription Group Sites: The Hindu | Business Line| Sportstar | Frontline| Publications | eBooks| Images | Home | Copyright © 2006, The Hindu. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of The Hindu ------------------------------ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 18:51:30 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:51:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 11 Message-ID: ------------------------------ [image: Frontline] *Volume 19 - Issue 16, August 3 - 16, 2002* India's National Magazine from the publishers of THE HINDU Home *•* Contents ------------------------------ DEPRIVATION Starving still in Jharkhand *A public hearing on hunger and the right to food, held in one of India's most deprived areas following starvation deaths, reveals gross irregularities in food-related programmes and a disastrous level of public services.* *BELA BHATIA * *JEAN DREZE* ON July 9, the normally sleepy block headquarters in Manatu in Palamau district of Jharkhand was overwhelmed by thousands of hunger-affected people who assembled for a public hearing on hunger and the right to food. The hearing, held in one of India's most deprived and troubled areas, took place in response to the critical situation that had developed there. Three "starvation deaths" were reported at Kusumatand village in Manatu panchayat in May. The incidents were initially reported in the Ranchi-based daily Prabhat Khabar on May 23. The next day, Madhu Singh, Land Reforms and Revenue Minister, Jharkhand, visited Kusumatand with government officials. Based on initial and prima facie enquiries, he publicly dismissed the reports of starvation deaths as "baseless stories" that were spread as a matter of "conspiracy" by Opposition parties, and added in passing that "prosperity and poverty are gifts of God" (Prabhat Khabar, May 25). PICTURES COURTESY: GRAM SWARAJ ABHIYAN *A widow testifies at the public hearing in Manatu. She had not eaten for three days and was too weak to stand up.* >From then on, the Jharkhand government ignored the matter. When Prabhat Khabar persisted with further accounts of the starvation deaths, the government attempted to muzzle the Editor by threatening him with action if he did not print "authentic" news. A team of persons which included the authors visited Kusumatand on three occasions in late June and early July, initially with a fact-finding team comprising members of the Gram Swaraj Abhiyan and the Right to Food campaign. The team conducted a survey of 21 randomly selected households in the hamlet, cross-examined neighbours and relatives of the victims, and interviewed various people in Manatu, including the ration-shop dealers and the Block Development Officer (BDO). What was witnessed at Kusumatand was shocking. Kusumatand is a hamlet of about 75 houses on the outskirts of Manatu panchayat. A majority of the village residents are Bhuiyas, others are mainly Muslims and Adivasis (Cheros). They are all landless or virtually landless. Most of them survive from seasonal labour migration, for example, to Rohtas district in Haryana where they earn 3 kg to 4 kg of grain a day for harvesting, transplanting and related tasks. This is supplemented with small earnings from self-cultivation, collection of tendu leaves, and whatever casual labour they find in the area. Local employment opportunities being extremely limited, most households in Kusumatand face serious survival problems during the lean months. Even though the team initially went there to investigate three "starvation deaths", it found that the entire hamlet lived in a state of semi-starvation. Most people survive on small quantities of khudi (broken rice), supplemented with whatever wild food may be available in the season, such as mahua, chakora (a local saag) or gethi (a root). Right now, the mahua season was coming to an end and many people were eating lumps of plain chakora. Some of them had nothing else to eat. Out of 21 sample households, 20 reported that they had to skip meals regularly. Consumption of food items other than rice and wild food is virtually nil in Kusumatand. As for expenditure on non-food items, more than half of the sample households reported that it was "zero" in an average month. These households buy clothes once a year, if at all, and otherwise spend their meagre earnings almost exclusively on food. They use sand or ashes for washing (not a very effective method, judging by the abysmal levels of personal cleanliness in the hamlet), and do without luxuries such as tea and bidis. Only two households out of 21 reported that all adult members of the household had chappals, and only seven own a blanket or quilt. Many of the houses are bare, except for basic cooking utensils. Another major hardship is the absence of clean water. Most households drink visibly contaminated water from shallow wells. A sample from one of the wells turned out to be full of worms. One member of the team drank water in Kusumatand and two hours later developed a sore throat. *At the public hearing.* Poverty in Kusumatand also has important social dimensions. This showed, for instance, in the absence of the usual signs of hospitality. Not one of the households we visited was able to offer the simplest refreshment; they did not even offer water, perhaps knowing how polluted it was, or, in some cases, because they did not possess a suitable container. Similarly, the laughter of children is seldom heard in Kusumatand and few of them can be seen playing or running. Instead they tend to stand by listlessly, ill-clad and undernourished. At the time of the team's visit, a large number of children were suffering from conjunctivitis, possibly owing to contaminated water. The whole village had a gloomy atmosphere. The health situation in Kusumatand is best described as a humanitarian emergency. During a brief survey, the team encountered ailments ranging from tuberculosis, marasmus, polio, epilepsy, paralysis and blindness to conjunctivitis, diarrhoea, chronic backache, chronic headache and toothache, besides mental illnesses, among others. There are no health facilities in the village; even the 'auxiliary nurse midwife' (ANM) never visits, and most children are not vaccinated. Private treatment is available in Manatu, but few people can afford it. The public health centre, for its part, has little to offer. Although there are four such sanctioned posts, only one doctor has been appointed. The single doctor who runs the centre is often absent, and the staff routinely charge patients for medicines that are meant to be made available free of cost. IN this situation, it is not surprising that the people of Kusumatand frequently perish from the combined burden of malnutrition, weakness and hunger-related diseases. This, it appears, is what happened to Sundar Bhuiya, Kunti Devi and Basanti Devi - the three victims of "starvation deaths". These deaths, as related by the surviving relatives, can be seen as the extreme manifestation of a much larger problem of endemic hunger in the area. In each case, the tragedy began with chronic hunger and exhaustion, followed by a prolonged period of precarious survival on wild food, culminating in a brief and fatal illness (for example, acute stomachache). Even today, the surviving members of these families live in dreadful poverty and could die any day of starvation-induced illnesses. Consider for instance the surviving members of Kunti Devi's family. Her husband, Bageshwar Bhuiya, suffers from TB and is unable to work. His illness goes untreated because he has no money and the staff members at the local health centre charge patients for TB drugs that are supposed to be made available for free. The burden of looking after him and his six children falls on his mother, a courageous 70-year-old widow who walks to Manatu from time to time to glean broken rice a rice mill. Aside from the little rice she brings from the mill, which is barely fit for human consumption, the family survives exclusively on wild food. The house collapsed a few months ago and the family had to take refuge in a corner of Bageshwar's brother's house. Except for one cooking pot and a few rags, the family owns absolutely nothing - not even a blanket or a single pair of footwear. Kusumatand's predicament is partly owing to the dismal failure of development programmes and welfare schemes in the area. Even the most basic institutional framework of development is missing. There are no functional panchayats in Manatu (panchayat elections are yet to be held after the formation of Jharkhand State), so village communities are rudderless. All development schemes are being run directly from the block office. Government officers, for their part, have stopped visiting the villages, allegedly because the area is under naxalite control. There is no doubt that the Maoist Communist Centre (MCC) has a strong presence in Manatu, and it is a fact that a former BDO was killed a few years ago. But "naxal prabhavit kshetr" (naxal-affected area) has also become a convenient all-purpose excuse for government employees to desert this gloomy area and settle down in Daltonganj. The new BDO is no exception. He comes to Manatu twice a week for brief consultations with local contractors, who are in charge of whatever development work is taking place. It is common knowledge that there is an understanding between the MCC and the contractors, who are tolerated as long as they pay the mandatory "taxes". After the local players, including the contractors and the MCC have taken their due share of development funds, little is left for work on the ground. A related casualty of the situation is school education. In Kusumatand, very few children have ever been to school, as there are no schooling facilities within a reasonable distance. In the other villages, the situation is no better. On the road from Daltonganj, there were a dozen primary schools. Some of them looked as if they had been bombed. Others had been converted into warehouses, cattle sheds, residential premises, or put to other creative uses. Only two or three schools boasted a semblance of educational activity. The people of Kusumatand are trapped in a vicious circle of poverty, hunger, illiteracy and powerlessness. Most of them have no idea of their rights and entitlements. The sarkar (government) is an abstract entity that has little bearing on their lives. They have not seen the face of the panchayat sevak or the BDO. The village has no approach road, no school, no electricity, no health facility. It is also important to note that all this is happening within 3 km of the block headquarters. One shudders to think about the situation in interior villages. THE public hearing on July 9 was partly aimed at breaking this vicious circle of deprivation and disempowerment. The hearing was convened by the Gram Swaraj Abhiyan (Palamau), a coalition of four local organisations: the Jan Chetna Kendra, the Auranga Gramin Vikas Samiti, the Alternative for India Development, and the Vikas Sahayog Kendra. It was attended by more than 2,000 Dalits, Adivasis and Muslims from the surrounding villages. Most of them were very poor people. Malnutrition - sunken cheeks, flushed eyes, slight frames - was the norm. It was rare to see a person who seemed to be in "normal" health. Women participated in large numbers. The hearing began with presentations by activists of the Gram Swaraj Abhiyan of the main findings of a survey of 36 villages of Manatu block, which was completed in early July in preparation for the event. The survey exposed the disastrous state of public services and welfare programmes in the area. To illustrate, only 17 of the 36 survey villages have a primary school. In nine of these 17 villages, the schools have been closed for more than a year. Of the eight schools that are functional, five have a single teacher each. Taken together, the 36 villages have only 12 teachers for more than 2,000 children in the 6-11 age group. As the hearing unfolded, stark irregularities in the functioning of the public distribution system and food-related programmes came to light. To start with, many people, who were evidently poor, complained that they did not have a BPL (below poverty line) card. Those who did have a card often mistook it for a "mitti tel ka card" (kerosene card), since that was the only item they were able to obtain from the ration shop. Actually, they received much less kerosene than their full entitlement (4 litres per card) and were being overcharged routinely. Many cards were found to have no entries in them. Others were full of entries, even though the cardholder had received nothing for months. Some participants complained that they were too poor to buy the rations (if available) even at the subsidised prices. Similar irregularities arose in connection with other food-related programmes. For instance, no drought relief has been organised in the area, even though Manatu was declared drought-affected in November 2001. There are no school meals in any of the local schools. And most anganwadis are closed most of the time. This situation is associated with gross violations of recent Supreme Court orders on the right to food, particularly the interim order of November 28, 2001 (PUCL vs Union of India and Others, Writ Petition No. 196 of 2001). To illustrate, the order clearly directs all State governments to introduce cooked mid-day meals in primary schools within six months of the order. The Government of Jharkhand has ignored this direction, despite much pressure from citizens' organisations. Meanwhile, foodgrains continue to pile up in public warehouses across the country: more than 65 million tonnes of wheat and rice are lying in the godowns of the Food Corporation of India (FCI). One of these warehouses is just across the road from the block office in Manatu. When someone at the hearing suggested that the locks of the FCI warehouses be prised open, most participants raised their hand in support. Although food was the main focus of the hearing, people kept turning to other pressing problems such as clean water, schooling, roads, electricity and health care. The complaints were endless, and after overcoming his or her initial shyness the speaker often held on to the mike to voice further concerns. The participants listened attentively for nearly five hours. The public hearing was clearly a new experience for them, greeted with a mixture of puzzlement, interest and hope. It was also an opportunity for people to confront the officials who had ignored them for so long. As one of the slogans went: school band, hospital band, band hamara block hai; kahan ham fariyad kare sara office lock hai (the school is closed, the health centre is closed, our block office is closed; where should we go and complain when all the offices are locked?). THE BDO initially took refuge in his office with the son of the erstwhile zamindar of Manatu, who was eager to give him "advice" on various applications. The adviser, who appeared to be in an inebriated state, intervened aggressively when people came to invite the BDO to the hearing. The BDO eventually sat through the hearing and assured the audience that he would address their complaints. His promises, however, did not carry much weight with the audience, given the long record of government inertia and corruption in the area. More important, the gathering ended with a resolve to follow up this event with concerted action in the near future. How far this campaign can be taken in Manatu's challenging environment remains to be seen, but the public hearing has at least clarified the challenges to be faced and affirmed the possibility of change. Towards the end of the hearing, news came that another starvation death had occurred the previous night in Majholi, a nearby village. Activists of the Gram Swaraj Abhiyan rushed to the place for an investigation and found that the victim, 35 year-old Panchu Oraon, had indeed died after a prolonged period of food deprivation culminating in eight days of complete starvation. He is survived by his wife and four children, who are also malnourished severely. *Bela Bhatia is Associate Fellow at the Centre for the Study of Developing Societies, New Delhi, and Professor Jean Dreze is now with the G.B. Pant Social Science Institute, Allahabad.* ------------------------------ [ Subscribe | Contact Us| Archives | Contents] ------------------------------ [ Home | The Hindu | Business Line | Sportstar ] ------------------------------ Copyright © 2002, Frontline. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of Frontline ------------------------------ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 18:56:04 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:56:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 11 Message-ID: ------------------------------ [image: Frontline] *Volume 25 - Issue 14 :: Jul. 05-18, 2008* INDIA'S NATIONAL MAGAZINE from the publishers of THE HINDU *•* Contents ------------------------------ [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] *CRIME* * Murder and worse * VENKITESH RAMAKRISHNAN * in Ranchi * * The killing of Lalit Mehta raises disturbing questions about the future of the fight against corruption that hampers development. * COURTESY: THE PUBLIC AGENDA * Lalit Mehta with his two children, in Palamau. The Chief Minister has ordered a CBI probe into his murder. * “WE know the killers of Lalit Mehta and they will be brought to justice. We will make the perpetrators of heinous crimes such as murder pay with their lives. We have started the process for this and it will soon culminate in strong and decisive action.” So says a leaflet circulated by the Communist Party of India (Maoist) on June 22 in Chattarpur and adjoining areas of Palamau district in Jharkhand. It even names a few Palamau-based contractors who were involved in public works under the National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme (NREGS) as suspects in the conspiracy to kill the social activist Lalit Mehta. The leaflet further states that Mehta and his associates were on the verge of exposing the rampant corruption practised by the contractors and their colleagues in NREGS activities in the district. This, it asserts, was the primary reason for the killing of Mehta in the third week of May. The leaflet did indeed create a flutter, not just in Chattarpur, where the mutilated body of Lalit Mehta was found on May 14, and its adjoining areas but also in Ranchi, the State capital. Senior officials in the State administration and the police as well as a number of social activists are a worried lot. They had not expected the extremist CPI (Maoist) – or naxalites, as the party is referred to in common parlance – to take an active interest in the Lalit Mehta case. Especially since the paths of Mehta and the CPI (Maoist) were different. Mehta, a 36-year-old engineer-turned-social-activist, was involved in activities that sought to advance rural employment, basic health facilities, right to food, and child rights. His organisational involvement was essentially with foundations that had a Gandhian orientation and outlook. Mehta was a full-time activist of the Right to Food Campaign and the Gram Swaraj Abhiyan; he was also the secretary of the Vikas Sahyog Kendra (VSK), a non-governmental organisation based in Palamau. The VSK, among other things, was involved in the social audit of NREGS in different parts of the district and sought to ensure better and transparent implementation of the prestigious programme of the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) government. The NREGS audit was guided by the noted development economist and activist Jean Dreze. The faltering of government and police officials in the murder investigation could have provoked the naxalites to take an active interest in the matter. The investigation by the local police was, right from the beginning, indolent and raised suspicions that it was designed to protect the culprits. When Mehta’s body was found near the Kandra jungles of Chattarpur, his bike, Rs.12,000 in cash, his mobile phone and other documents were reported missing. The first reaction from the police, even before they started a formal probe, was to highlight the loss of cash and other valuables and portray the murder as a consequence of robbery. The fact that the murder took place just a day after a team of NREGS volunteers from Delhi and elsewhere arrived in Chainpur and Chhattarpur blocks of Palamau district was not considered at all by the local police. This anomaly was pointed out by many social activists including Manoj Kumar Singh, president of the VSK and a long-time associate of Lalit Mehta. Even when it was taken into consideration later, the reactions from the local administration and the police were strange. The district administration, in its first official report on the murder dated May 31, rejected the linkage between the timing of the murder and the NREGS social audit by Mehta and his associates. The report, which was filed by Palamau District Commissioner Nagendra Prasad Singh and Superintendent of Police Deepak Kumar Verma, accused Dreze of orchestrating a campaign to malign the district administration. It claimed that Dreze and his team of social auditors were “creating an environment to paint the Palamau administration, along with the Jharkhand government, as deeply entrenched in corruption and suggesting that works under NREGS in all districts of Jharkhand, including Palamau, are being done only on paper.” The report also slammed a social audit, done by Dreze and his team, that specifically pointed out to irregularity and corruption by two officials of the Chattarpur block as an allegation “without substance”. It said that Dreze and his team “took advantage of semi-literate tribal workers” and got them to “sign on a complaint” that the two officials had taken a bribe of Rs.4,500 in two instalments. According to the report, the “substancelessness” of the charge was established through an inquiry conducted by district officials. It claims that it was found out during the inquiry that the workers had got proper wages but Dreze and company misled the complainants who were semi-literate. The report, referring to statements by Mehta’s brothers and wife, suggested that the motive to murder Mehta could well have been monetary gain since “Lalit Mehta played an important role in large sums of monetary transactions” involving the VSK. “Obviously,” pointed out Manoj Kumar Singh while talking to *Frontline*, “there was a deliberate attempt to sidetrack the investigation and take its focus away from the real culprits.” However, he added, the attempt had been defeated to a large extent through committed action by a number of social activists and politicians. The report of the district administration evoked widespread condemnation and many social activists – including Aruna Roy and Nikhil Dey of the Mazdoor Kisan Shakti Sangathan, Annie Raja of the Communist Party of India and senior journalist Prabash Joshi – came together under the auspices of the Daman Bhrashtachar Virodhi Samiti and initiated an agitation in Palamau. Pressure was exerted in New Delhi, too, by a delegation of about 100 social activists who met Union Rural Development Minister Raghuvansh Prasad Singh and sought a Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) probe. The Minister endorsed the value of social audits and made it clear that his Ministry was committed to protecting people and organisations associated with them. UPA chairperson Sonia Gandhi, too, took note of the events and said in a message that the killing of Mehta “was engineered by vested interests that were apprehensive of Lalit’s exposing their corrupt practices”. All these pressures at the high level forced the Jharkhand government to change tack. Chief Minister Madhu Koda recommended a CBI inquiry on June 18. He admitted that this move was necessary because the Criminal Investigation Department (CID) of the State police and the Palamau district administration had not been able to make much headway in the case. “Though the CID probe, which I had earlier ordered, was following the case very closely, I chose to go for the CBI inquiry as a section of people had started suspecting the role of the State police,” Koda said. Lalit Mehta’s friends, relatives and associates perceived the announcement of the CBI inquiry as a kind of victory in their struggles and expected a speedy investigation. However, the intimidating message from the naxalites – four days after the announcement of the CBI probe – has added a new dimension to the sequence of events. The consequences of this involvement are not predictable. There are apprehensions that the atmosphere could be further vitiated by this. In the meantime, VSK activists, in association with their colleagues who have come from outside the district and even from outside the State, have resumed the social audit that Lalit Mehta had to leave unfinished. “This is our tribute to a dear colleague and it would continue irrespective of the challenges that come in various forms and shapes,” Manoj Kumar Singh told * Frontline*. He added that there was an environment of fear and tension, constantly created by the nexus of local contractors, middlemen, bureaucrats and politicians in activities relating to the NREGS and food supply under the Public Distribution System (PDS). The VSK and its fraternal organisations are determined not to succumb to any form of intimidation that might come up against them while working in these areas. Clearly, Lalit Mehta’s spirit is very much alive among his activist colleagues. * * ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Printer friendly page Send this article to Friends by E-Mail ------------------------------ Subscribe | Contact Us | Archives| Contents (Letters to the Editor should carry the full postal address) ------------------------------ Home | The Hindu | Business Line | Sportstar | Publications | eBooks| Images ------------------------------ Copyright © 2008, Frontline. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of Frontline ------------------------------ From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 11 19:16:36 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 06:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <322917.2876.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Rakesh   You have gone off on a tangent from the the point I was trying to highlight. Quite obviously I failed.   My point was not about having a bias or about discussing biases. Nor was it about you or anyone else.   My point was about the discussion in this thread begining to veer towards a direction where it might end up discussing religions and religious scriptures and the precepts drawn from how they are propagated and how they are followed.    Since 'uss hamaam mein sabb nangay hain' people then have to resort to cover-ups.      Kshmendra --- On Tue, 8/11/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: From: Rakesh Iyer Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite To: "Kshmendra Kaul" Cc: "sarai list" Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 5:17 PM Kshamendra jee   The question is not of not having bias. As a human being, it is certainly normal to have a bias. Shuddha jee is biased towards democracy, Pawan jee is biased towards justice to Pandits and punishment of Yasin Malik, the BJP is biased towards Hindutva way of life, and the Left is biased towards anti-Americanism. (And I am particularly biased towards right to food, and certainly Hindutva politics because of the ideology it espouses)   What is important is whether such a bias is justifiable, as Sen says, in the promotion of freedoms and rights to people, which enhance their capabilities and help them to lead their lives as they value. This is where the Hindutva way of life must be condemned because it doesn't allow certain people to lead their lives as they want (and here I am taking out secularists and looking at the problem from the angle of minorities themselves). And this is against human rights, as much as are the activities of the Taliban and the terrorists who live in our own society, enjoy the very same rights as others do, and yet don't allow other to enjoy those rights.   And to find out whether such a bias is justifiable or not, public discussion is necessary. This is what allows all of us to decide for our own selves what is justifiable and what is not. I condemn BJP and some of the harsh measures they like to implement in various forms (like anti-terror laws) specifically because they serve the objective of the terrorists themselves, which is to restrict the rights of citizens and make them feel harassed and deprived. That is not what we should give in to   Moreover, biases can also change with public discussion. My own bias for pro-BJP was changed once I got to discuss about its policies with other people. Before that, I thought one should be always nationalistic (something like Vedavati jee is). Till I managed to discuss about the issues of course.   So what I wish to say is that, if someone can prove that BJP's actions which I am suspicious of, are actually enhancing rights of citizens and their freedoms, please go ahead and we may think about it certainly.   Regards   Rakesh   --- On Tue, 8/11/09, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: From: Kshmendra Kaul Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite To: "sarai list" Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 2:25 PM very soon from investigative biases to prosecutorial biases to judicial biases to biases of organisations linked with religions to biases of personalities of such organisations   this discussion will move to criticism of religions and then the scriptures   there will be plenty for everyone to quote from   From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Aug 11 21:13:09 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:43:09 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Personal Identification coding by the office of the Registrar General of India Message-ID: <65be9bf40908110843r4a8dc21fge86b203811fcf84b@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, With the scheme of things taking shape slowly, the scene now is as follows. There will be a distribution of smart cards for some sectors of population, while for other sectors a unique identification will be distributed first, which would be perhaps followed by a smart card. There isn't much information available on the net on these issues, therefore we do not know, for sure how the government of India is planning to take it forward. However, we do know, that drafts proposals are being finalized to format personal identification information. This process is underway at the Offices of the Registrar General of India. I have recently come across two documents in this regard which I wanted to share with you all. The first document pertains to a format of generic data elements. These generic data elements represent the nodes of information which will be harvested from individuals/citizens across the country. Therefore I think it is important to all of us on this list who will fall under its purview. I have uploaded this document here- http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.1&thid=1230457d5aed45af&mt=application%2Fpdf&pli=1 Please do have a look. The other document relates to the codification of personal identification information. This document which, I believe, was still in draft stages, at the time of publication, is all of eighty nine pages long was prepared by a Expert Committee on Metadata and data standards reporting to RGI in June 2009. This document clearly maps out how the information so collected will be coded in a database. This document could be accessed here- http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.1&thid=123045be2e268f4c&mt=application%2Fpdf I most strongly believe that, the important aspects regarding the subsequent actions of the Government of India with respect to harvesting of personal information, which needs to be reflected upon, by one and all, on this list and elsewhere, must include the following set of questions- 1. How is this information going to be garnered? 2. What is the process for collection, collation, classification and storage of personal data? 3. What role will private vendors play in this process? 4. How much of public money will be required for this process? 5. How will this process be phased? How will responsibility of data collection and storage disbursed? 6. Are there any plans/ideas of trading this information to market players in near or far future? 7. What all government departments will have access to this information? 8. What all government departments have expressed a willingness to share data on private individuals? 9. How will issues related to obsolescence of technology be dealt? Is there a policy in place now? 10. Why there seems to be a thrust by the office of UIDAI to include private vendors? Why are various governments departments thought to be incompetent, to carry out this task? Warm regards Taha From cubbykabi at yahoo.com Tue Aug 11 23:56:35 2009 From: cubbykabi at yahoo.com (kabi cubby sherman) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:56:35 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: [INSAANIYATBOMBAY] India 2011 (In Memory of '1984') Message-ID: <127620.28787.qm@web94702.mail.in2.yahoo.com> injecting a little humour. this is dedicated to Taha. enjoy. kabi Meter Down - काली पीली की कहानी blog: http://meterdown.wordpress.com podcast: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/meterdown ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Sukla Sen To: peoples media ; india-unity at yahoogroups.com; indiathinkersnet ; mahajanapada ; bahujan ; invitesplus at yahoogroups.com; international-peace-festival ; mihre ; INSAANIYATBOMBAY Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 11:28:28 PM Subject: [INSAANIYATBOMBAY] India 2011 (In Memory of '1984') Nandan Nilekani at His Best: UID Card/No. This is real cool. When we all have the UID card this could be one such conversation. . Operator "Thank you for calling Pizza Hut . May I have your..." Customer: "Hello, can I order.." Operator : "Can I have your multi purpose ID card number first, Sir?" Customer: "It's he..., hold........ ...on.... ..88986135610204 9998-45-54610" Operator : "OK... You're... Mr Singh and you're calling from 17 Jal Vayu. Your home number is 22678893,your office 25076666 and your mobile is 09869798888. Which number are you calling from now Sir?" Customer: "Home! How did you get all my phone numbers? Operator : "We are connected to the system Sir" Customer: "May I order your Seafood Pizza..." Operator : "That's not a good idea Sir" Customer: "How come?" Operator : "According to your medical records, you have high blood pressure and even higher cholesterol level Sir" Customer: "What?... What do you recommend then?" Operator : "Try our Low Fat Pizza. You'll like it" Customer: "How do you know for sure?" Operator : "You borrowed a book entitled "Popular Dishes" from the National Library last week Sir" Customer: "OK I give up... Give me three family size ones then, how much will that cost?" Operator : "That should be enough for your family of 05, Sir. The total is Rs 500.00" Customer: "Can I pay by! Credit card?" Operator : "I'm afraid you have to pay us cash, Sir. Your credit card is over the limit and you owe your bank Rs 23,000.75 since October last year.. That's not including the late payment charges on your housing loan, Sir.." Customer: "I guess I have to run to the neighbourhood ATM and withdraw some cash before your guy arrives" Operator : "You can't Sir. Based on the records,you' ve reached your daily limit on machine withdrawal today" Customer: "Never mind just send the pizzas, I'll have the cash ready. How long is it gonna take anyway?" Operator : "About 45 minutes Sir, but if you can't wait you can always come and collect it on your Nano Car..." Customer: " What!" Operator : "According to the details in system ,you own a Nano car,...registration number GZ-05-AB-1107. ." Customer: " ????" Operator : "Is there anything else Sir?" Customer: "Nothing... By the way... Aren't you giving me that 3 free bottles of cola as advertised?" Operator : "We normally would Sir, but based on your records you're also diabetic.... ... Customer: #$$^%&$@$% Operator : "Better watch your language Sir.. Remember on 15th July 2010 you were convicted of using abusive language on a policeman... ?" Customer: [Faints] __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar to learn more about INSAANIYATBOMBAY http://groups.yahoo.com/group/INSAANIYATBOMBAY Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent ActivityVisit Your Group Give Back Yahoo! for Good Get inspired by a good cause. Y! Toolbar Get it Free! easy 1-click access to your groups. Yahoo! Groups Start a group in 3 easy steps. Connect with others. . __,_._,___ Looking for local information? Find it on Yahoo! Local http://in.local.yahoo.com/ From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 12 00:33:45 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:03:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908110022t410f473ag95986cebda2edfa7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <670729.3097.qm@web39108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Murali Ji, I will support the proposal please. Regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Tue, 8/11/09, Murali V wrote: > From: Murali V > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn > To: "A.K. Malik" > Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 12:52 PM > I think it is high time there is also > a majorities commission set-up. > > Regards, > V Murali > > On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 12:11 PM, > A.K. Malik > wrote: > > > > Well Mr Murali, what will the Minorities Commission do if > there are no such complaints. Do you want the Commission to > sit without work.I do not know why do the Muslims make > issues of small things and our pseudo-secularists are > awaiting such incidents to support them. A few years back, > in Delhi I went to enquire about a flat in a Society in > Delhi where I was told that only Gujratis can buy or get the > flats transferred.Cool,what is big about it? > > > Someone in Bangalore I know didn't want to give his > flat to a non-vegetarian and he would have refused to let > out his house to a  Muslim.Some one could make an issue of > even such small things. Why, let us live with our own > dignities. > > > Regards, > > > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > > > > --- On Tue, 8/11/09, Murali V > wrote: > > > > > From: Murali V > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U > turn > > > To: "subhrodip sengupta" > > > Cc: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > > Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 9:51 AM > > > Every time the so > called victim, > > > brings about the minority issue and our > > > pseudo-secularists immediately highlight the event > > > I hope everybody would recall the statement of > > > Azharuddin  after he was > > > convicted of match fixing. This clinging to harassment > of > > > minorities is > > > nothing new. > > > > > > Regards, > > > V Murali > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 12:33 AM, subhrodip sengupta > < > > > sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Forwarded Message ---- > > > > From: subhrodip sengupta > > > > To: Readers list Yousuf Sarai. > > > > Sent: Monday, 10 August, 2009 11:58:56 PM > > > > Subject: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn > > > > > > > > > > > > The clipping made a sad read. Was reminded of the > same > > > agony muslims r > > > > facing in MUmbai, interestingly many other > top-shots > > > complained of same > > > > discrimination within Mumbai, this is another > example > > > of conflict becoming > > > > clear and copming to forefront, as wpould be rare > in > > > non-riot affected > > > > villages. City based insecurities lead to > this..... > > > > The actor who has done many off-beat, bold roles > stood > > > up, with people like > > > > Srk denying them as publicity stunts. Afraid of > thus > > > loosing his appeal > > > > towards majority, he took a softer course....... > What > > > he actually said was > > > > he was aware that this discrimination was both > wayed > > > and he has no > > > > allegations against any single > community.......... All > > > was that wanted to > > > > buy a house, in front of minority forum. > Imraan's > > > U-turn, is India's shame. > > > > I hope he does not withdraw his complaint, and > sees an > > > end to this logic of > > > > discrimination, which exists solely on itself. > How > > > does Muslim make up > > > > differ from Hindus. I can not understand. > > > Bravo-Imraan! > > > > ________________________________ > > > > Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, > video > > > highlights and more. > > > > Click here. > > > > > > > > > > > >      See the Web's breaking stories, > > > chosen by people like you. Check out > > > > Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the > > > city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > > city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 12 00:58:46 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:28:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn In-Reply-To: <635024.97325.qm@web94705.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <715383.78666.qm@web39107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Mr Sengupta, What I wanted to emphasize was small issues do come up and they need not necessarily be taken as being based on religion.The example I gave was to let the people know if you a right, others too have a right. In the experience of the Society, to the best of my knowledge Muslims were not barred.I never made an issue because I understand the people who have formed a Society have certain rights.Even if I wished to make an issue, I couldn't have because I belong to the majority community and as such have no Commission where I could have made a complaint. Don't you think the reverse discrimination never happens, but I have yet to see anyone highlighting it. Would not it have been more appropriate if the Govt had created a Discrimination Commission( or Anti-Discrimination Commission) where every citizen who was discriminated against could go and file an application instead of a Minorities Commission and such other Commissions? But ,Sir that won't have given the ruling political party vote banks. Regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Tue, 8/11/09, subhrodip sengupta wrote: > From: subhrodip sengupta > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn > To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 6:00 PM > Hashmi dd not complaint against one > person alone, being a popular actor, especially in the > present youth he forwarded a point. There's nothing wrong in > not lending your house to a mohammadan. There's nothing wron > when a MOHAMMEDAN STANDS AND SHELTERS EXCLUSIVELY ANOTHER, > BE HE A TERRORIST! I do not support terrorist but if your > logic alone need work, sheltering terrorist is nt a crime. . > ...... > > > > > ________________________________ > From: subhrodip sengupta > To: Murali V ; > Rakesh Iyer > Cc: Sarai List > Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 3:15:02 PM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn > > Dear all, > Thanks for your interesting comments which does not let one > fall silent. > Let me go by your arguments, a group of Brahmins, possibly > marathis who are vegetarians. > So, what makes up a hindu bramhin, things he /she does, a > lower acste what they do....... > One wont believe it nowadays, but more than five decades > ago, Muslims were marked by their consumption of onion, and > in reverse, only lower caste and Muslims swere supposed to > consume raw onions! Then I assume these BRahmins, or god > knows whoever they are; are discriminating against not only > muslims alone........................................... > Fine for those who believe Constitution is just another book > of rules which need to be bent as we like, Article on > equality is very clear on this, but for those who look for > social consciousness and outcomes, it's not just > distracting, but rather alarming. How will these people live > when one of their daughter's shall reveal she has had had > sex with a mohammedan and a christian, apart from 3 other > hindu boys? Will then they resort to more basic methods of > public retribution and disgracing? Alas. Interestingly > nether the fal wallahs nor the sweepers are > Brahmins........... As for Beef consumption, > Consumption of nothing in my house can make yours impure, > these society wallahs, should have more sense than > conducting Raam Leelas, Hanuman pujas , where interestingly > revel is there, something which they stay should be behind > doors.,........... > I have beef inside my house no strong smell disturrrbs you, > it's finer than lift does not work, water supply does not > come, to the latter they should restrict their problem. What > about consumption of liquor. Then they should have things > like surprise checks. Let me not go into frivolous things, > if the argument is correct, they are actually committing a > bigger crime, a prejudice and friction against a bigger > section of society. > > > > About Hashmi: > Any one who now a days stands up is first accused of trying > to attain cheap publicity, even shiny ahuja's maid! Fine as > a statement from dominant ones who'd else loose power, but > we buying into such things. Things are pretty clear it is > assumed.......(on what basis?) > > He has been a bold-based actor. Is it less amusing that > his case such people as who date married, women, bring in > joys, challenge social perceptions, or even do bold roles in > movies are cheap. But lest be sure lets pass one resolution, > they are not prostitutes, many of us would have to apply for > license then, being students orf social > experiments.......... > > > Regards,(hopefully I got more audience for this despicable, > cheap actor who behaves like what onstage) > >   > & LOVE > > > Subhrodip > > > ________________________________ > From: Murali V > To: Rakesh Iyer > Cc: Sarai List > Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 1:33:10 PM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn > > If I were to explain further on Malik's statement, If > somebody is rejected > because of being a non-vegetarian, and if the person > happens to belong to a > minority community, I am sure, it would be twisted to be > one because of > being in the community and all hell would be let loose by > the > Pseudo-seculars and the media. > > Regards, > V Murali > > On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Rakesh Iyer > wrote: > > > I only hope it's for the sake of disallowing the > non-vegetarians and not > > for disallowing the Muslims. > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >       Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to the new and > safer Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >       See the Web's breaking stories, > chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 01:35:30 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 01:35:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn In-Reply-To: <715383.78666.qm@web39107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <635024.97325.qm@web94705.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <715383.78666.qm@web39107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <341380d00908111305h5b3561eejdf420eff53df3076@mail.gmail.com> Dear Malik jee, The idea of having reverse discrimination can only be realised if there is discrimination. We do have a judiciary to take care of that. The idea of discrimination is an elusive one. There can be also discrimination against people who do not want to use a mobile phone and instead depends on Public Call Booths because the larger society opted for cellular phones. How have we accomodated people without mobile phones in the society? But not many us are ready to complain because we accomodate technological marvels of certain group of people involved in designing them for us so that it brings us benefits. But we do have the right to reject them on the grounds that I dont want to be mobile with a phone, of all things. So what am i left with? Say I am stuck in East of Kailash, and there is not a single phone booth around here to make a phone call. I have the option of walking only ( as i have only twenty bucks in my pocket) to AIIMS. I bet my last tenner for you, i am sure you can theorise on this. What you call small means a lot to me. Someone getting discriminated doesnt have to neccesarily conform to vote bank politics. I guess such arguments can also exist independently out of the mainstream political scenario. A person not getting a shelter because of a societal rule in an urban area where crores of people work, get their wages, steal, beg, borrow, live, shit is something horrible. -Anupam On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:58 AM, A.K. Malik wrote: > > Dear Mr Sengupta, > What I wanted to emphasize was small issues do come up and > they need not necessarily be taken as being based on religion.The example I > gave was to let the people know if you a right, others too have a right. In > the experience of the Society, to the best of my knowledge Muslims were not > barred.I never made an issue because I understand the people who have formed > a Society have certain rights.Even if I wished to make an issue, I couldn't > have because I belong to the majority community and as such have no > Commission where I could have made a complaint. > Don't you think the reverse discrimination never happens, but I have yet to > see anyone highlighting it. > Would not it have been more appropriate if the Govt had created a > Discrimination Commission( or Anti-Discrimination Commission) where every > citizen who was discriminated against could go and file an application > instead of a Minorities Commission and such other Commissions? But ,Sir > that won't have given the ruling political party vote banks. > Regards, > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > --- On Tue, 8/11/09, subhrodip sengupta wrote: > > > From: subhrodip sengupta > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn > > To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 6:00 PM > > Hashmi dd not complaint against one > > person alone, being a popular actor, especially in the > > present youth he forwarded a point. There's nothing wrong in > > not lending your house to a mohammadan. There's nothing wron > > when a MOHAMMEDAN STANDS AND SHELTERS EXCLUSIVELY ANOTHER, > > BE HE A TERRORIST! I do not support terrorist but if your > > logic alone need work, sheltering terrorist is nt a crime. . > > ...... > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: subhrodip sengupta > > To: Murali V ; > > Rakesh Iyer > > Cc: Sarai List > > Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 3:15:02 PM > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn > > > > Dear all, > > Thanks for your interesting comments which does not let one > > fall silent. > > Let me go by your arguments, a group of Brahmins, possibly > > marathis who are vegetarians. > > So, what makes up a hindu bramhin, things he /she does, a > > lower acste what they do....... > > One wont believe it nowadays, but more than five decades > > ago, Muslims were marked by their consumption of onion, and > > in reverse, only lower caste and Muslims swere supposed to > > consume raw onions! Then I assume these BRahmins, or god > > knows whoever they are; are discriminating against not only > > muslims alone........................................... > > Fine for those who believe Constitution is just another book > > of rules which need to be bent as we like, Article on > > equality is very clear on this, but for those who look for > > social consciousness and outcomes, it's not just > > distracting, but rather alarming. How will these people live > > when one of their daughter's shall reveal she has had had > > sex with a mohammedan and a christian, apart from 3 other > > hindu boys? Will then they resort to more basic methods of > > public retribution and disgracing? Alas. Interestingly > > nether the fal wallahs nor the sweepers are > > Brahmins........... As for Beef consumption, > > Consumption of nothing in my house can make yours impure, > > these society wallahs, should have more sense than > > conducting Raam Leelas, Hanuman pujas , where interestingly > > revel is there, something which they stay should be behind > > doors.,........... > > I have beef inside my house no strong smell disturrrbs you, > > it's finer than lift does not work, water supply does not > > come, to the latter they should restrict their problem. What > > about consumption of liquor. Then they should have things > > like surprise checks. Let me not go into frivolous things, > > if the argument is correct, they are actually committing a > > bigger crime, a prejudice and friction against a bigger > > section of society. > > > > > > > > About Hashmi: > > Any one who now a days stands up is first accused of trying > > to attain cheap publicity, even shiny ahuja's maid! Fine as > > a statement from dominant ones who'd else loose power, but > > we buying into such things. Things are pretty clear it is > > assumed.......(on what basis?) > > > > He has been a bold-based actor. Is it less amusing that > > his case such people as who date married, women, bring in > > joys, challenge social perceptions, or even do bold roles in > > movies are cheap. But lest be sure lets pass one resolution, > > they are not prostitutes, many of us would have to apply for > > license then, being students orf social > > experiments.......... > > > > > > Regards,(hopefully I got more audience for this despicable, > > cheap actor who behaves like what onstage) > > > > > > & LOVE > > > > > > Subhrodip > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Murali V > > To: Rakesh Iyer > > Cc: Sarai List > > Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 1:33:10 PM > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn > > > > If I were to explain further on Malik's statement, If > > somebody is rejected > > because of being a non-vegetarian, and if the person > > happens to belong to a > > minority community, I am sure, it would be twisted to be > > one because of > > being in the community and all hell would be let loose by > > the > > Pseudo-seculars and the media. > > > > Regards, > > V Murali > > > > On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Rakesh Iyer > > wrote: > > > > > I only hope it's for the sake of disallowing the > > non-vegetarians and not > > > for disallowing the Muslims. > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > > Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to the new and > > safer Internet Explorer 8. > http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > > See the Web's breaking stories, > > chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. > http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > From ambarien at yahoo.co.uk Wed Aug 12 08:45:43 2009 From: ambarien at yahoo.co.uk (ambarien qadar) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 03:15:43 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Reader-list] Join National Protest Day against Encounter Killings on 14th August Message-ID: <163298.44097.qm@web24105.mail.ird.yahoo.com>   Dear all, Please join us at 3.30 pm at ITO Chowk, 14th August, (Friday) to protest against 'encounter killings'. This Independence Day, Demand freedom from Encounters Observe National Day of Protest against Encounter Killings on 14th August Assemble at ITO Chowk, 3.30 pm, 14th Aug (Friday)   The Jamia Teachers Solidarity Association along with other organisations has called for a National Day of Protest on 14 August 2009 against the continuing trend of ‘encounter’ killings by state forces, the arbitrary arrests of Muslim youth and the blatant whitewashing of such crimes by state agencies. All this in the name of ‘national security’ and ‘war against terror’. The cold-blooded murder of Chungkham Sanjit, a 27-year old Manipur youth in broad daylight on 23 July by the Manipur Police Commandos, barely 500 meters from the state assembly building in Imphal, has once again highlighted the sordid truth about ‘encounter’ killings in India. While the MPC had claimed initially that Sanjit had been killed while escaping during a routine screening operation, their lie was nailed by a series of photographs published by the Tehelka magazine, which showed the unarmed, peaceful youth was shot by the commandos without provocation. In addition, a pregnant woman, Mrs. Rabina and the five-month-old child in her womb were also killed, while five others were wounded. Last year on 19 September the Delhi police had carried out a similar ‘encounter’ against alleged ‘terrorists’ of the Indian Mujahideen at Batla House in New Delhi. This would have been another routine ‘encounter’ if not for the nationwide outcry from human rights groups, students and academics. While the Delhi High Court appointed the National Human Rights Commission to carry out an independent and fair inquiry into the encounter killings, the NHRC has chosen to further sully its already stained reputation by presenting a partisan report absolving the Delhi Police of any human rights violation. The NHRC did not bother to visit the families of the two ‘terrorists’ killed by the Delhi police, talk to eye witnesses or even visit the site of the ‘encounter’, basing their conclusions on the statements of the Delhi Police, the accused party! This was only a repeat of the shameful exoneration of the security forces by the one-man enquiry commission in the brutal Shopian rape and murder case. In Gujarat the Sohrabuddin ‘encounter’ is returning to haunt the Narendra Modi government as evidence points to yet another cold-blooded murder by a highly communalized state police. These murders by the killers in uniform are then legitimized and glorified as ‘encounters’. Large sections of our citizenry—Muslims, Kashmiris, peoples from the Northeast, Adivasis and Dalits—are condemned to be ‘encounterable’. These are people who can be killed, and their killings justified and explained through recourse to a warped security discourse. These people exist not in the framework of fundamental human rights but in that of national security alone. The security forces are afforded impunity and immunity as long as they can introduce the “Terror” word. In different parts of the country, Muslim youth are still being arrested and tortured on trumped up charges of links to ‘terrorism’. The large-scale detentions of Muslim youth in Karnataka following communal riots in Mysore recently is a case in point of double standards followed by the state police, which is mysteriously soft on hardline-Hindutva advocates like Pramod Muthalik who openly advocates attacks on women and members of the Christian and Muslim minorities. To raise a concerted voice against the culture of encounters, which violates the fundamental rights provided by the Indian Constitution, to demand accountability of state forces, we call upon all those who value Indian democracy to come forward and join the National Day of Protest on 14 August in all parts of the country.   Sd/- Manisha Sethi (9811625577) , Adeel Mehdi (9990923027) , Ambarien Al Qadar (9810946273) for Jamia Teachers’ Solidarity Association (JTSA) Malem Ningthouja (9899925345) Campaign for Peace and Democracy, Manipur (CPDM) All India Students’ Association (AISA) ANHAD The Other Media    thanks Ambarien Al Qadar  on behalf ofThe Jamia Teachers' Solidarity Association. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Photos | Members Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity Visit Your Group Yahoo! Mail Stay in Touch Stay connected and manage your life Yahoo! Toolbar Get it Free! easy 1-click access to your groups. Yahoo! Groups Start a group in 3 easy steps. Connect with others. . __,_._,___ From ambarien at yahoo.co.uk Wed Aug 12 08:48:14 2009 From: ambarien at yahoo.co.uk (ambarien qadar) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 03:18:14 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Reader-list] Join National Protest Day against Encounter Killings on 14th August Message-ID: <305716.74325.qm@web24103.mail.ird.yahoo.com>   Dear all, Please join us at 3.30 pm at ITO Chowk, 14th August, (Friday) to protest against 'encounter killings'. This Independence Day, Demand freedom from Encounters Observe National Day of Protest against Encounter Killings on 14th August Assemble at ITO Chowk, 3.30 pm, 14th Aug (Friday)   The Jamia Teachers Solidarity Association along with other organisations has called for a National Day of Protest on 14 August 2009 against the continuing trend of ‘encounter’ killings by state forces, the arbitrary arrests of Muslim youth and the blatant whitewashing of such crimes by state agencies. All this in the name of ‘national security’ and ‘war against terror’. The cold-blooded murder of Chungkham Sanjit, a 27-year old Manipur youth in broad daylight on 23 July by the Manipur Police Commandos, barely 500 meters from the state assembly building in Imphal, has once again highlighted the sordid truth about ‘encounter’ killings in India. While the MPC had claimed initially that Sanjit had been killed while escaping during a routine screening operation, their lie was nailed by a series of photographs published by the Tehelka magazine, which showed the unarmed, peaceful youth was shot by the commandos without provocation. In addition, a pregnant woman, Mrs. Rabina and the five-month-old child in her womb were also killed, while five others were wounded. Last year on 19 September the Delhi police had carried out a similar ‘encounter’ against alleged ‘terrorists’ of the Indian Mujahideen at Batla House in New Delhi. This would have been another routine ‘encounter’ if not for the nationwide outcry from human rights groups, students and academics. While the Delhi High Court appointed the National Human Rights Commission to carry out an independent and fair inquiry into the encounter killings, the NHRC has chosen to further sully its already stained reputation by presenting a partisan report absolving the Delhi Police of any human rights violation. The NHRC did not bother to visit the families of the two ‘terrorists’ killed by the Delhi police, talk to eye witnesses or even visit the site of the ‘encounter’, basing their conclusions on the statements of the Delhi Police, the accused party! This was only a repeat of the shameful exoneration of the security forces by the one-man enquiry commission in the brutal Shopian rape and murder case. In Gujarat the Sohrabuddin ‘encounter’ is returning to haunt the Narendra Modi government as evidence points to yet another cold-blooded murder by a highly communalized state police. These murders by the killers in uniform are then legitimized and glorified as ‘encounters’. Large sections of our citizenry—Muslims, Kashmiris, peoples from the Northeast, Adivasis and Dalits—are condemned to be ‘encounterable’. These are people who can be killed, and their killings justified and explained through recourse to a warped security discourse. These people exist not in the framework of fundamental human rights but in that of national security alone. The security forces are afforded impunity and immunity as long as they can introduce the “Terror” word. In different parts of the country, Muslim youth are still being arrested and tortured on trumped up charges of links to ‘terrorism’. The large-scale detentions of Muslim youth in Karnataka following communal riots in Mysore recently is a case in point of double standards followed by the state police, which is mysteriously soft on hardline-Hindutva advocates like Pramod Muthalik who openly advocates attacks on women and members of the Christian and Muslim minorities. To raise a concerted voice against the culture of encounters, which violates the fundamental rights provided by the Indian Constitution, to demand accountability of state forces, we call upon all those who value Indian democracy to come forward and join the National Day of Protest on 14 August in all parts of the country.   Sd/- Manisha Sethi (9811625577) , Adeel Mehdi (9990923027) , Ambarien Al Qadar (9810946273) for Jamia Teachers’ Solidarity Association (JTSA) Malem Ningthouja (9899925345) Campaign for Peace and Democracy, Manipur (CPDM) All India Students’ Association (AISA) ANHAD The Other Media    thanks Ambarien Al Qadar  on behalf ofThe Jamia Teachers' Solidarity Association. __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity Visit Your Group Yahoo! Mail Stay in Touch Stay connected and manage your life Yahoo! Toolbar Get it Free! easy 1-click access to your groups. Yahoo! Groups Start a group in 3 easy steps. Connect with others. . __,_._,___ From murali.chalam at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 08:55:36 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:55:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: References: <4eab87870908110058g6cdc57fco9208399f1ecf6192@mail.gmail.com> <232101.51937.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908112025t4d5ca542if7d47bdd3920529e@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh JI, What do you think of having a common civil code? Regards, V Murali On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Kshamendra jee > > The question is not of not having bias. As a human being, it is certainly > normal to have a bias. Shuddha jee is biased towards democracy, Pawan jee > is > biased towards justice to Pandits and punishment of Yasin Malik, the BJP is > biased towards Hindutva way of life, and the Left is biased towards > anti-Americanism. (And I am particularly biased towards right to food, and > certainly Hindutva politics because of the ideology it espouses) > > What is important is whether such a bias is justifiable, as Sen says, in > the > promotion of freedoms and rights to people, which enhance their > capabilities > and help them to lead their lives as they value. This is where the Hindutva > way of life must be condemned because it doesn't allow certain people to > lead their lives as they want (and here I am taking out secularists and > looking at the problem from the angle of minorities themselves). And this > is > against human rights, as much as are the activities of the Taliban and the > terrorists who live in our own society, enjoy the very same rights as > others > do, and yet don't allow other to enjoy those rights. > > And to find out whether such a bias is justifiable or not, public > discussion > is necessary. This is what allows all of us to decide for our own selves > what is justifiable and what is not. I condemn BJP and some of the harsh > measures they like to implement in various forms (like anti-terror laws) > specifically because they serve the objective of the terrorists themselves, > which is to restrict the rights of citizens and make them feel harassed and > deprived. That is not what we should give in to > > Moreover, biases can also change with public discussion. My own bias for > pro-BJP was changed once I got to discuss about its policies with other > people. Before that, I thought one should be always nationalistic > (something > like Vedavati jee is). Till I managed to discuss about the issues of > course. > > > So what I wish to say is that, if someone can prove that BJP's actions > which > I am suspicious of, are actually enhancing rights of citizens and their > freedoms, please go ahead and we may think about it certainly. > > Regards > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Wed Aug 12 09:33:31 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:03:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn In-Reply-To: <341380d00908111305h5b3561eejdf420eff53df3076@mail.gmail.com> References: <635024.97325.qm@web94705.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <715383.78666.qm@web39107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <341380d00908111305h5b3561eejdf420eff53df3076@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <988586.11408.qm@web94709.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Dear anupam, Indeed, you remind me of a time when to have a vote, one needed an estate, thats the outcome of discrimination--- robbing people gradually from ceratin means to at times the basest of mean................ A horrific world lulled on ignorance and haTRED LAY AHEAD, not all of us have cellular phones, and  we do need public booths they do exist where I live, see spending on someting for me is different and denying me that which is mine is entirely a different issue. If kinda the booth operator allows only ISD calls, U do have reason to complaint....... About majority commission, Imran does acknowledge the way muslims stick to each other, and claims, how things are self-imposed leading to seperatist forces, and as I've argued having non-veg or a muslim neighbour should never disease the piety of our own homes, whatever perceptions one might have of such people( He has his own wife, and family, I can only remotely visualise him kissing other women on streets, but then we may have our own comfort zones and ideals, but is anyhow wise not to bark on them).......... But then one might always say Is Int paththar ki diwaaron ki bich Jungle ka kanoon hi to chalta hain, for such ignorant, awaits the predator...... regards, Subhrodip. ________________________________ From: anupam chakravartty To: sarai list Sent: Wednesday, 12 August, 2009 1:35:30 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn Dear Malik jee, The idea of having reverse discrimination can only be realised if there is discrimination. We do have a judiciary to take care of that. The idea of discrimination is an elusive one. There can be also discrimination against people who do not want to use a mobile phone and instead depends on Public Call Booths because the larger society opted for cellular phones. How have we accomodated people without mobile phones in the society? But not many us are ready to complain because we accomodate technological marvels of certain group of people involved in designing them for us so that it brings us benefits. But we do have the right to reject them on the grounds that I dont want to be mobile with a phone, of all things. So what am i left with? Say I am stuck in East of Kailash, and there is not a single phone booth around here to make a phone call. I have the option of walking only ( as i have only twenty bucks in my pocket) to AIIMS. I bet my last tenner for you, i am sure you can theorise on this. What you call small means a lot to me. Someone getting discriminated doesnt have to neccesarily conform to vote bank politics. I guess such arguments can also exist independently out of the mainstream political scenario. A person not getting a shelter because of a societal rule in an urban area where crores of people work, get their wages, steal, beg, borrow, live, shit is something horrible. -Anupam On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:58 AM, A.K. Malik wrote: > > Dear Mr Sengupta, >                  What I wanted to emphasize was small issues do come up and > they need not necessarily be taken as being based on religion.The example I > gave was to let the people know if you a right, others too have a right. In > the experience of the Society, to the best of my knowledge Muslims were not > barred.I never made an issue because I understand the people who have formed > a Society have certain rights.Even if I wished to make an issue, I couldn't > have because I belong to the majority community and as such have no > Commission where I could have made a complaint. > Don't you think the reverse discrimination never happens, but I have yet to > see anyone highlighting it. > Would not it have been more appropriate if the Govt had created a > Discrimination Commission( or Anti-Discrimination Commission) where every > citizen who was discriminated against could go and file an application > instead of a Minorities Commission  and such other Commissions? But ,Sir > that won't have given the ruling political party vote banks. > Regards, > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > --- On Tue, 8/11/09, subhrodip sengupta wrote: > > > From: subhrodip sengupta > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn > > To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 6:00 PM > > Hashmi dd not complaint against one > > person alone, being a popular actor, especially in the > > present youth he forwarded a point. There's nothing wrong in > > not lending your house to a mohammadan. There's nothing wron > > when a MOHAMMEDAN STANDS AND SHELTERS EXCLUSIVELY ANOTHER, > > BE HE A TERRORIST! I do not support terrorist but if your > > logic alone need work, sheltering terrorist is nt a crime. . > > ...... > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: subhrodip sengupta > > To: Murali V ; > > Rakesh Iyer > > Cc: Sarai List > > Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 3:15:02 PM > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn > > > > Dear all, > > Thanks for your interesting comments which does not let one > > fall silent.. > > Let me go by your arguments, a group of Brahmins, possibly > > marathis who are vegetarians. > > So, what makes up a hindu bramhin, things he /she does, a > > lower acste what they do....... > > One wont believe it nowadays, but more than five decades > > ago, Muslims were marked by their consumption of onion, and > > in reverse, only lower caste and Muslims swere supposed to > > consume raw onions! Then I assume these BRahmins, or god > > knows whoever they are; are discriminating against not only > > muslims alone........................................... > > Fine for those who believe Constitution is just another book > > of rules which need to be bent as we like, Article on > > equality is very clear on this, but for those who look for > > social consciousness and outcomes, it's not just > > distracting, but rather alarming. How will these people live > > when one of their daughter's shall reveal she has had had > > sex with a mohammedan and a christian, apart from 3 other > > hindu boys? Will then they resort to more basic methods of > > public retribution and disgracing? Alas. Interestingly > > nether the fal wallahs nor the sweepers are > > Brahmins........... As for Beef consumption, > > Consumption of nothing in my house can make yours impure, > > these society wallahs, should have more sense than > > conducting Raam Leelas, Hanuman pujas , where interestingly > > revel is there, something which they stay should be behind > > doors.,........... > > I have beef inside my house no strong smell disturrrbs you, > > it's finer than lift does not work, water supply does not > > come, to the latter they should restrict their problem. What > > about consumption of liquor. Then they should have things > > like surprise checks. Let me not go into frivolous things, > > if the argument is correct, they are actually committing a > > bigger crime, a prejudice and friction against a bigger > > section of society. > > > > > > > > About Hashmi: > > Any one who now a days stands up is first accused of trying > > to attain cheap publicity, even shiny ahuja's maid! Fine as > > a statement from dominant ones who'd else loose power, but > > we buying into such things. Things are pretty clear it is > > assumed.......(on what basis?) > > > > He has been a bold-based actor. Is it less amusing that > > his case such people as who date married, women, bring in > > joys, challenge social perceptions, or even do bold roles in > > movies are cheap. But lest be sure lets pass one resolution, > > they are not prostitutes, many of us would have to apply for > > license then, being students orf social > > experiments.......... > > > > > > Regards,(hopefully I got more audience for this despicable, > > cheap actor who behaves like what onstage) > > > > > > & LOVE > > > > > > Subhrodip > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Murali V > > To: Rakesh Iyer > > Cc: Sarai List > > Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 1:33:10 PM > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn > > > > If I were to explain further on Malik's statement, If > > somebody is rejected > > because of being a non-vegetarian, and if the person > > happens to belong to a > > minority community, I am sure, it would be twisted to be > > one because of > > being in the community and all hell would be let loose by > > the > > Pseudo-seculars and the media. > > > > Regards, > > V Murali > > > > On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Rakesh Iyer > > wrote: > > > > > I only hope it's for the sake of disallowing the > > non-vegetarians and not > > > for disallowing the Muslims. > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > >      Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to the new and > > safer Internet Explorer 8. > http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > >      See the Web's breaking stories, > > chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. > http://in.buzz.yahoo..com/ > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Looking for local information? Find it on Yahoo! Local http://in.local.yahoo.com/ From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Wed Aug 12 09:48:05 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:48:05 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn In-Reply-To: <715383.78666.qm@web39107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <715383.78666.qm@web39107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <719661.82413.qm@web94704.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Dear Mr Malik, I do agree to your ideals, ther is no anti-discrimination law in India. Where things are provided we do not obey. Discrimination is subtle and we need to identify it's subtle forms, eg  a case of gender discrimination, where every body re inforces false perceptions,an aids patient never invited to local functions. To protect ourselves we need a community, when that is not there then a commission gets set up. Why do I need to go to court for a man who cheats me if I can fix him myself? When the community turns against somebody, then one needs defence, by law or by vengeance, which is related to fear... Rights do exist simultaneously and they can be enjoyed even in a society, I guess that is why we live in it, provided we do not step overboard and get fetish about them. Then we get feudal, and restrict our immagination to temples and mosques, divorced from other needs....... And as far vote banks or any politics is concerned, never mind democracy, in the limit, tables are set up like that, numbers do not add up unless we do them, for any policy one needs strong and desperate people supporting it not many people behind it, who wont bother to budge........... Regards, Subhrodip.   ________________________________ From: A.K. Malik To: subhrodip sengupta Cc: Sarai List Sent: Wednesday, 12 August, 2009 12:58:46 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn Dear Mr Sengupta,                   What I wanted to emphasize was small issues do come up and they need not necessarily be taken as being based on religion.The example I gave was to let the people know if you a right, others too have a right. In the experience of the Society, to the best of my knowledge Muslims were not barred.I never made an issue because I understand the people who have formed a Society have certain rights.Even if I wished to make an issue, I couldn't have because I belong to the majority community and as such have no Commission where I could have made a complaint. Don't you think the reverse discrimination never happens, but I have yet to see anyone highlighting it. Would not it have been more appropriate if the Govt had created a Discrimination Commission( or Anti-Discrimination Commission) where every citizen who was discriminated against could go and file an application instead of a Minorities Commission  and such other Commissions? But ,Sir that won't have given the ruling political party vote banks. Regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Tue, 8/11/09, subhrodip sengupta wrote: > From: subhrodip sengupta > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn > To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 6:00 PM > Hashmi dd not complaint against one > person alone, being a popular actor, especially in the > present youth he forwarded a point. There's nothing wrong in > not lending your house to a mohammadan. There's nothing wron > when a MOHAMMEDAN STANDS AND SHELTERS EXCLUSIVELY ANOTHER, > BE HE A TERRORIST! I do not support terrorist but if your > logic alone need work, sheltering terrorist is nt a crime. . > ...... > > > > > ________________________________ > From: subhrodip sengupta > To: Murali V ; > Rakesh Iyer > Cc: Sarai List > Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 3:15:02 PM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn > > Dear all, > Thanks for your interesting comments which does not let one > fall silent. > Let me go by your arguments, a group of Brahmins, possibly > marathis who are vegetarians. > So, what makes up a hindu bramhin, things he /she does, a > lower acste what they do....... > One wont believe it nowadays, but more than five decades > ago, Muslims were marked by their consumption of onion, and > in reverse, only lower caste and Muslims swere supposed to > consume raw onions! Then I assume these BRahmins, or god > knows whoever they are; are discriminating against not only > muslims alone............................................ > Fine for those who believe Constitution is just another book > of rules which need to be bent as we like, Article on > equality is very clear on this, but for those who look for > social consciousness and outcomes, it's not just > distracting, but rather alarming. How will these people live > when one of their daughter's shall reveal she has had had > sex with a mohammedan and a christian, apart from 3 other > hindu boys? Will then they resort to more basic methods of > public retribution and disgracing? Alas. Interestingly > nether the fal wallahs nor the sweepers are > Brahmins........... As for Beef consumption, > Consumption of nothing in my house can make yours impure, > these society wallahs, should have more sense than > conducting Raam Leelas, Hanuman pujas , where interestingly > revel is there, something which they stay should be behind > doors.,........... > I have beef inside my house no strong smell disturrrbs you, > it's finer than lift does not work, water supply does not > come, to the latter they should restrict their problem. What > about consumption of liquor. Then they should have things > like surprise checks. Let me not go into frivolous things, > if the argument is correct, they are actually committing a > bigger crime, a prejudice and friction against a bigger > section of society. > > > > About Hashmi: > Any one who now a days stands up is first accused of trying > to attain cheap publicity, even shiny ahuja's maid! Fine as > a statement from dominant ones who'd else loose power, but > we buying into such things. Things are pretty clear it is > assumed.......(on what basis?) > > He has been a bold-based actor. Is it less amusing that > his case such people as who date married, women, bring in > joys, challenge social perceptions, or even do bold roles in > movies are cheap. But lest be sure lets pass one resolution, > they are not prostitutes, many of us would have to apply for > license then, being students orf social > experiments.......... > > > Regards,(hopefully I got more audience for this despicable, > cheap actor who behaves like what onstage) > >   > & LOVE > > > Subhrodip > > > ________________________________ > From: Murali V > To: Rakesh Iyer > Cc: Sarai List > Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 1:33:10 PM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn > > If I were to explain further on Malik's statement, If > somebody is rejected > because of being a non-vegetarian, and if the person > happens to belong to a > minority community, I am sure, it would be twisted to be > one because of > being in the community and all hell would be let loose by > the > Pseudo-seculars and the media. > > Regards, > V Murali > > On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Rakesh Iyer > wrote: > > > I only hope it's for the sake of disallowing the > non-vegetarians and not > > for disallowing the Muslims. > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >       Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to the new and > safer Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > >       See the Web's breaking stories, > chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ From anansi1 at earthlink.net Wed Aug 12 10:12:16 2009 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul Miller) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:42:16 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] Open Season Iraq: Blackwater Founder Implicated in Murder Message-ID: <642B7B8A-8D9E-4006-BEA0-1D6B375EBDE2@earthlink.net> I just thought I'd pass this along. Paul aka Dj Spooky Explosive Allegations: Blackwater Founder Implicated in Murder By Jeremy Scahill The Nation August 4, 2009 http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090817/scahill Sworn statements filed in Federal Court also allege that Blackwater founder Erik Prince launched a "crusade" to eliminate Muslims and Islam. A former Blackwater employee and an ex-U.S. Marine who has worked as a security operative for the company have made a series of explosive allegations in sworn statements filed on August 3 in federal court in Virginia. The two men claim that the company's owner, Erik Prince, may have murdered or facilitated the murder of individuals who were cooperating with federal authorities investigating the company. The former employee also alleges that Prince "views himself as a Christian crusader tasked with eliminating Muslims and the Islamic faith from the globe," and that Prince's companies "encouraged and rewarded the destruction of Iraqi life." In their testimony, both men also allege that Blackwater was smuggling weapons into Iraq. One of the men alleges that Prince turned a profit by transporting "illegal" or "unlawful" weapons into the country on Prince's private planes. They also charge that Prince and other Blackwater executives destroyed incriminating videos, emails and other documents and have intentionally deceived the U.S. State Department and other federal agencies. The identities of the two individuals were sealed out of concerns for their safety. These allegations, and a series of other charges, are contained in sworn affidavits, given under penalty of perjury, filed late at night on August 3 in the Eastern District of Virginia as part of a seventy-page motion by lawyers for Iraqi civilians suing Blackwater for alleged war crimes and other misconduct. Susan Burke, a private attorney working in conjunction with the Center for Constitutional Rights, is suing Blackwater in five separate civil cases filed in the Washington, DC, area. They were recently consolidated before Judge T.S. Ellis III of the Eastern District of Virginia for pretrial motions. Burke filed the August 3 motion in response to Blackwater's motion to dismiss the case. Blackwater asserts that Prince and the company are innocent of any wrongdoing and that they were professionally performing their duties on behalf of their employer, the U.S. State Department. The former employee, identified in the court documents as "John Doe #2," is a former member of Blackwater's management team, according to a source close to the case. Doe #2 alleges in a sworn declaration that, based on information provided to him by former colleagues, "it appears that Mr. Prince and his employees murdered, or had murdered, one or more persons who have provided information, or who were planning to provide information, to the federal authorities about the ongoing criminal conduct." John Doe #2 says he worked at Blackwater for four years; his identity is concealed in the sworn declaration because he "fear[s] violence against me in retaliation for submitting this Declaration." He also alleges, "On several occasions after my departure from Mr. Prince's employ, Mr. Prince's management has personally threatened me with death and violence." In a separate sworn statement, the former U.S. marine who worked for Blackwater in Iraq alleges that he has "learned from my Blackwater colleagues and former colleagues that one or more persons who have provided information, or who were planning to provide information about Erik Prince and Blackwater have been killed in suspicious circumstances." Identified as "John Doe #1," he says he "joined Blackwater and deployed to Iraq to guard State Department and other American government personnel." It is not clear if Doe #1 is still working with the company as he states he is "scheduled to deploy in the immediate future to Iraq." Like Doe #2, he states that he fears "violence" against him for "submitting this Declaration." No further details on the alleged murder(s) are provided. "Mr. Prince feared, and continues to fear, that the federal authorities will detect and prosecute his various criminal deeds," states Doe #2. "On more than one occasion, Mr. Prince and his top managers gave orders to destroy emails and other documents. Many incriminating videotapes, documents and emails have been shredded and destroyed." The Nation cannot independently verify the identities of the two individuals, their roles at Blackwater or what motivated them to provide sworn testimony in these civil cases. Both individuals state that they have previously cooperated with federal prosecutors conducting a criminal inquiry into Blackwater. "It's a pending investigation, so we cannot comment on any matters in front of a Grand Jury or if a Grand Jury even exists on these matters," John Roth, the spokesperson for the U.S. Attorney's office in the District of Columbia, told The Nation. "It would be a crime if we did that." Asked specifically about whether there is a criminal investigation into Prince regarding the murder allegations and other charges, Roth said: "We would not be able to comment on what we are or are not doing in regards to any possible investigation involving an uncharged individual." The Nation repeatedly attempted to contact spokespeople for Prince or his companies at numerous email addresses and telephone numbers. When a company representative was reached by phone and asked to comment, she said, "Unfortunately no one can help you in that area." The representative then said that she would pass along The Nation's request. As this article goes to press, no company representative has responded further to The Nation. Doe #2 states in the declaration that he has also provided the information contained in his statement "in grand jury proceedings convened by the United States Department of Justice." Federal prosecutors convened a grand jury in the aftermath of the September 16, 2007, Nisour Square shootings in Baghdad, which left seventeen Iraqis dead. Five Blackwater employees are awaiting trial on several manslaughter charges and a sixth, Jeremy Ridgeway, has already pleaded guilty to manslaughter and attempting to commit manslaughter and is cooperating with prosecutors. It is not clear whether Doe #2 testified in front of the Nisour Square grand jury or in front of a separate grand jury. The two declarations are each five pages long and contain a series of devastating allegations concerning Erik Prince and his network of companies, which now operate under the banner of Xe Services LLC. Among those leveled by Doe #2 is that Prince "views himself as a Christian crusader tasked with eliminating Muslims and the Islamic faith from the globe": To that end, Mr. Prince intentionally deployed to Iraq certain men who shared his vision of Christian supremacy, knowing and wanting these men to take every available opportunity to murder Iraqis. Many of these men used call signs based on the Knights of the Templar, the warriors who fought the Crusades. Mr. Prince operated his companies in a manner that encouraged and rewarded the destruction of Iraqi life. For example, Mr. Prince's executives would openly speak about going over to Iraq to "lay Hajiis out on cardboard." Going to Iraq to shoot and kill Iraqis was viewed as a sport or game. Mr. Prince's employees openly and consistently used racist and derogatory terms for Iraqis and other Arabs, such as "ragheads" or "hajiis." Among the additional allegations made by Doe #1 is that "Blackwater was smuggling weapons into Iraq." He states that he personally witnessed weapons being "pulled out" from dog food bags. Doe #2 alleges that "Prince and his employees arranged for the weapons to be polywrapped and smuggled into Iraq on Mr. Prince's private planes, which operated under the name Presidential Airlines," adding that Prince "generated substantial revenues from participating in the illegal arms trade." Doe #2 states: "Using his various companies, [Prince] procured and distributed various weapons, including unlawful weapons such as sawed off semi-automatic machine guns with silencers, through unlawful channels of distribution." Blackwater "was not abiding by the terms of the contract with the State Department and was deceiving the State Department," according to Doe #1. This is not the first time an allegation has surfaced that Blackwater used dog food bags to smuggle weapons into Iraq. ABC News's Brian Ross reported in November 2008 that a "federal grand jury in North Carolina is investigating allegations the controversial private security firm Blackwater illegally shipped assault weapons and silencers to Iraq, hidden in large sacks of dog food." Another former Blackwater employee has also confirmed this information to The Nation. Both individuals allege that Prince and Blackwater deployed individuals to Iraq who, in the words of Doe #1, "were not properly vetted and cleared by the State Department." Doe #2 adds that "Prince ignored the advice and pleas from certain employees, who sought to stop the unnecessary killing of innocent Iraqis." Doe #2 further states that some Blackwater officials overseas refused to deploy "unfit men" and sent them back to the U.S. Among the reasons cited by Doe #2 were "the men making statements about wanting to deploy to Iraq to 'kill ragheads' or achieve 'kills' or 'body counts,'" as well as "excessive drinking" and "steroid use." However, when the men returned to the U.S., according to Doe #2, "Prince and his executives would send them back to be deployed in Iraq with an express instruction to the concerned employees located overseas that they needed to 'stop costing the company money.'" Doe #2 also says Prince "repeatedly ignored the assessments done by mental health professionals, and instead terminated those mental health professionals who were not willing to endorse deployments of unfit men." He says Prince and then-company president Gary Jackson "hid from Department of State the fact that they were deploying men to Iraq over the objections of mental health professionals and security professionals in the field," saying they "knew the men being deployed were not suitable candidates for carrying lethal weaponry, but did not care because deployments meant more money." Doe #1 states that "Blackwater knew that certain of its personnel intentionally used excessive and unjustified deadly force, and in some instances used unauthorized weapons, to kill or seriously injure innocent Iraqi civilians." He concludes, "Blackwater did nothing to stop this misconduct." Doe #1 states that he "personally observed multiple incidents of Blackwater personnel intentionally using unnecessary, excessive and unjustified deadly force." He then cites several specific examples of Blackwater personnel firing at civilians, killing or "seriously" wounding them, and then failing to report the incidents to the State Department. Doe #1 also alleges that "all of these incidents of excessive force were initially videotaped and voice recorded," but that "Immediately after the day concluded, we would watch the video in a session called a 'hot wash.' Immediately after the hotwashing, the video was erased to prevent anyone other than Blackwater personnel seeing what had actually occurred." Blackwater, he says, "did not provide the video to the State Department." Doe #2 expands on the issue of unconventional weapons, alleging Prince "made available to his employees in Iraq various weapons not authorized by the United States contracting authorities, such as hand grenades and hand grenade launchers. Mr. Prince's employees repeatedly used this illegal weaponry in Iraq, unnecessarily killing scores of innocent Iraqis." Specifically, he alleges that Prince "obtained illegal ammunition from an American company called LeMas. This company sold ammunition designed to explode after penetrating within the human body. Mr. Prince's employees repeatedly used this illegal ammunition in Iraq to inflict maximum damage on Iraqis." Blackwater has gone through an intricate rebranding process in the twelve years it has been in business, changing its name and logo several times. Prince also has created more than a dozen affiliate companies, some of which are registered offshore and whose operations are shrouded in secrecy. According to Doe #2, "Prince created and operated this web of companies in order to obscure wrongdoing, fraud and other crimes." "For example, Mr. Prince transferred funds from one company (Blackwater) to another (Greystone) whenever necessary to avoid detection of his money laundering and tax evasion schemes." He added: "Mr. Prince contributed his personal wealth to fund the operations of the Prince companies whenever he deemed such funding necessary. Likewise, Mr. Prince took funds out of the Prince companies and placed the funds in his personal accounts at will." Briefed on the substance of these allegations by The Nation, Congressman Dennis Kucinich replied, "If these allegations are true, Blackwater has been a criminal enterprise defrauding taxpayers and murdering innocent civilians." Kucinich is on the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform and has been investigating Prince and Blackwater since 2004. "Blackwater is a law unto itself, both internationally and domestically. The question is why they operated with impunity. In addition to Blackwater, we should be questioning their patrons in the previous administration who funded and employed this organization. Blackwater wouldn't exist without federal patronage; these allegations should be thoroughly investigated," Kucinich said. A hearing before Judge Ellis in the civil cases against Blackwater is scheduled for August 7. From jeebesh at sarai.net Wed Aug 12 13:16:37 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:16:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Wall Project : Mumbai Message-ID: The Wall Project : Mumbai (www.thewallproject.com) Dear All, A bit about us & the new initiative. ABOUT The Wall Project, a humble project that started out with a few enthusiastic people, is growing to be a bigger, better project. It was an initiative to add visual elements of colour, form and texture to a space, to make the area more alive and generate a feeling among people who pass by it daily. This process allows one to be more observant about the spaces we use and move within and how we can use various art forms in the public sphere to generate an interest in the minds of our daily human lives. The Wall Project in its own way tries to start a conversation, with no political or religious attachments. THE GREAT WALL OF MUMBAI The Wall Project along with the Municipal Corporation of Mumbai is initiating painting sessions on the Tulsi Pipe Road, stretching from Mahim to Dadar running along the Western Railway line in Mumbai. The first phase starts on the 15th -16th August 2009, 0800 HRS onwards. CANVAS - look for an arrow indicating the start point on the Walls of Tulsi Pipe Road, (closer to Mahim(West) Railway station) And we could begin painting in that direction. - it would be nice to come prepared with a thought about what you would like to paint and how much wall space you will require. HOW TO PARTICIPATE - its open to all. show up on 15th/16th August, 08:00am - 08:00pm and paint your style. - if you are apprehensive about painting all by yourself then you could assist people who are painting. - you could come as a group (friends, family etc) with hopefully a constructive idea and paint it. PLEASE KEEP IN MIND * no adverts, no religious writings on the wall, hopefully no political slogans, no foul language. * there is a limited amount of paint supplies on location, so early birds... * being a weekend/national holiday some paint/hardware shops may be shut or close shop early, so you would want to check on what you require in advance. ** clean up around you once your wall is complete J All further updates will be on THE WALL PROJECT group on FACEBOOK. :-) direct link If you have any queries please do not hesitate to write in at - info at thewallproject.com Hope to c u there. The Wall Project Team ----- www.thewallproject.com From kaiwanmehta at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 14:00:33 2009 From: kaiwanmehta at gmail.com (kaiwan mehta) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:00:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Wall Project : Mumbai In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2482459d0908120130y30718874uf5d7254b4b3e6c90@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I have come to know of the Wall Project only through this email and the corresponding weblinks. So the following response is based on that. As much as it sounds good, full of enthusiasm and interesting, and for sure good willing... there should also be a note of caution, some clarity on the larger purpose and course of life of such projects and it should encourage some discussion too. Some projects are nice when they happen in some and certain corners of city, just because they work or add some required element of life and urbanity in some parts of the city - it for sure does not mean duplicating it, replicating it everywhere and anywhere in the city will make sense. It would be more interesting to share this concept with people and participants from different areas - but the same team need not be the main or central participants or initiators in all the different areas. The team or group which started this, should not travel with paints and brushes and their ideas everywhere, they should rather insist only on facilitating similiar concepts for other interested areas/neighbourhoods and the people/participants/enthusiasts for/from there. In the past the city has seen some philanthrophic public art projects and now we all have to live with them. About 2 or 3 years ago we had students from the J J School of Art making large sculptures of cows and elephants and painting them in many different ways and with different graphic themes and scattering them all around Churchgate station. This was supported by the Indian Merchants Chambers who was incidentally celebrating their some 100 or 150 years anniversary. There was some discussion on this in the media and this public art thrust upon us needed more thinking for sure! Luckily the media discussion in the daily press and in the architecture magazine that I worked for then had some interesting discussion, and I think it also dettered the thought of extension of this project to other parts of the city blindly, by just simply duplicating the same again and again. It was the same time that one other city philanthrophist visited some port city abroad, saw some wall painting project there and decided on painting the walls (sure s/he got them painted by some 'local' artists, did not do it her/himself) of the port area near Lion Gate - till today we are suffereing some bad images from a discovered history of Mumbai/Bombay! Architects, builders, policy makers, and now some 'concerned' 'citizen groups' are already imposing visual pallettes and their versions of urbanity upon us... a project like this should not land up adding to the list; in fact a project like this has the ability to detour some of the visual menaces otherwise thrust upon us, but this needs thinking and lots of open discussion, and not one approach, but a range of approches within a conceptual framework. At no point I wish to disturb any enthusiasm, or disturb a concept that I think is interesting - but for sure I feel that this concept should never be the baby of one group - it is not about sharing the practice but sharing the concept. The group may say that they are inviting others to participate. No, that is not what I am talking about. It is not about collaborations, but completely giving away. The group that started this in Bandra or wherever, should hand over the idea to other groups or enthusiasts in other parts of the city, if they are concerned seriously about the city the way they speak of. They should encourage other groups, to come forward, take the concept, and then the new group can play around with it as they wish, within the spirit (not rules) of the concept. This will encourage a range of responses and ideas - there maybe some failures, dissapointments, etc. But still it is better than one group steering how the many walls in this city should or will look. There maybe people in this city that like blank walls - well if they do enjoy that lack or colour or texture, let's respect that too! Thanks for reading... Kind regards, Kaiwan On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Jeebesh wrote: > The Wall Project : Mumbai (www.thewallproject.com) > > Dear All, > > A bit about us & the new initiative. > > ABOUT > The Wall Project, a humble project that started out with a few > enthusiastic people, is growing to be a bigger, better project. It was > an initiative to add visual elements of colour, form and texture to a > space, to make the area more alive and generate a feeling among people > who pass by it daily. > > This process allows one to be more observant about the spaces we use > and move within and how we can use various art forms in the public > sphere to generate an interest in the minds of our daily human lives. > The Wall Project in its own way tries to start a conversation, with no > political or religious attachments. > > THE GREAT WALL OF MUMBAI > > The Wall Project along with the Municipal Corporation of Mumbai is > initiating painting sessions on the Tulsi Pipe Road, stretching from > Mahim to Dadar running along the Western Railway line in Mumbai. The > first phase starts on the 15th -16th August 2009, 0800 HRS onwards. > > > CANVAS > - look for an arrow indicating the start point on the Walls of Tulsi > Pipe Road, (closer to Mahim(West) Railway station) And we could begin > painting in that direction. > - it would be nice to come prepared with a thought about what you > would like to paint and how much wall space you will require. > > > > HOW TO PARTICIPATE > - its open to all. show up on 15th/16th August, 08:00am - 08:00pm and > paint your style. > - if you are apprehensive about painting all by yourself then you > could assist people who are painting. > - you could come as a group (friends, family etc) with hopefully a > constructive idea and paint it. > > > PLEASE KEEP IN MIND > * no adverts, no religious writings on the wall, hopefully no > political slogans, no foul language. > > * there is a limited amount of paint supplies on location, so early > birds... > > * being a weekend/national holiday some paint/hardware shops may be > shut or close shop early, so you would want to check on what you > require in advance. > > ** clean up around you once your wall is complete J > > > All further updates will be on THE WALL PROJECT group on > FACEBOOK. :-) direct link > > If you have any queries please do not hesitate to write in at - > info at thewallproject.com > > Hope to c u there. > > The Wall Project Team > > > ----- > www.thewallproject.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 12 14:34:24 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 02:04:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Modernity through the eyes of SIN : Call for Speakers Message-ID: <663799.20809.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> --- On Wed, 8/12/09, rohitrellan at aol.in wrote: From: rohitrellan at aol.in Subject: Modernity through the eyes of SIN : Call for Speakers To: cinemalovers at googlegroups.com, cinemaloversmumbai at googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 2:30 PM -----Original Message----- From: Abhishek Kumar To: rohitrellan at aol.in Sent: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 2:03 pm Subject: Re: Modernity through the eyes of SIN Dear All BIM Trichy Alumni Association has been organizing events in various cities on topics that explore inter-disciplinary space  (POLIS – June 09 on Politics, Music, Poetry and Cinema), Money (Feb 2008 on Money and economics, sociology, art and philosophy), Ganges ( Oct 2006 on cultural symbols) etc. Our next event is on exploring the concept of Modernity. I am enclosing a brief write up on the proposed event. We are looking for speakers for this event. As you may see in the write-up, we need 4 speakers (one each for 4 different topics – those who would like to relate Modernity and sin to music, history, paintings and art of conversation. I would request you to call me if you are interested or if you know someone who might be interested.   Regards Abhishek Kumar 99105 58913 (abhishekkumar76 at gmail.com)     Modern Times Sin – In thought word & action   Modernity has always meant a break from the past. Curiously though the ways of past often re-appear in future as modern and hold generations in thrall however Modernity still remains an arrogant and ignorant derision of past by an over-confident present.  A modern life is char acterized primarily by its outlook towards family, society, money, religion, sex and God. This outlook is evocatively captured in various forms of art, history, music, philosophy ad most interestingly in general day to day conversation. Modern Times, the event, shall condense and contemporise, centuries of modernity and primitivism and create a heady concoction of Modern Times with art, history, music and art of conversation as ingredients. A riveting story of changing times and their remaining the same ·         A journey through the modernity of Indo, Roman and Islamic cultures ·         Impressions of Sin on canvas through the ages – Modern and Primitive ·         Masti with Modernity – A coffee-table chat a la Koffee with Karan   Anchored by ________with western music as prop   India International Centre 40, Max Mueller Marg, Delhi 3 9th January 2010, Saturday     A BIM Trichy Alumni Association Presentation           ________________________________________________________________________ You are invited to Get a Free AOL Email ID. - http://webmail.aol.in --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cinemalovers" group. To post to this group, send email to cinemalovers at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cinemalovers+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cinemalovers?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 14:36:41 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:36:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908112025t4d5ca542if7d47bdd3920529e@mail.gmail.com> References: <4eab87870908110058g6cdc57fco9208399f1ecf6192@mail.gmail.com> <232101.51937.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908112025t4d5ca542if7d47bdd3920529e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Murali Great idea, provided: 1) The civil code will be introduced based on points of public discussion, after having heard out all views, and implemented only if it is approved through a referendum. All people of India must be involved, as it concerns them in particular, and must be encouraged to bring their choice to public notice through means of referendum. 2) The civil code must be looked at every 15-20 years to see if things have to be changed or not (in suit to current realities). For example, 20 years ago gay rights may not have been supported to the extent they are today. That has to be recognized. The code must also be debated upon periodically (not necessarily for changing) and on special occasions if changes have to be brought. Infact, such a civil code will be most useful to minorities, unlike the way it is portrayed by Muslim fundamentalists. And the BJP should be criticized for not having thought about it when they were in power (although what form would that code have taken is something speculative). Regards Rakesh From murali.chalam at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 14:55:03 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:55:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: References: <4eab87870908110058g6cdc57fco9208399f1ecf6192@mail.gmail.com> <232101.51937.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908112025t4d5ca542if7d47bdd3920529e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908120225p49fa0b11n32fe7d66fafd4213@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh Ji, Public debate comprising of eminent experts from all walks of life should form part of the core discussion forum. A referendum would become political and lead to similar chaos such as our elections. Change is the only thing that is permanent and amendments will have to come as time goes by. While it would be beneficial to all, as you rightly stated that this would rejected by the Mullahs and Clerics, who may feel that their control on issuing Fatwas would be jeopardised. Regards, V Murali On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Murali > > Great idea, provided: > > 1) The civil code will be introduced based on points of public discussion, > after having heard out all views, and implemented only if it is approved > through a referendum. All people of India must be involved, as it concerns > them in particular, and must be encouraged to bring their choice to public > notice through means of referendum. > > 2) The civil code must be looked at every 15-20 years to see if things have > to be changed or not (in suit to current realities). For example, 20 years > ago gay rights may not have been supported to the extent they are today. > That has to be recognized. The code must also be debated upon periodically > (not necessarily for changing) and on special occasions if changes have to > be brought. > > Infact, such a civil code will be most useful to minorities, unlike the way > it is portrayed by Muslim fundamentalists. And the BJP should be criticized > for not having thought about it when they were in power (although what form > would that code have taken is something speculative). > > > Regards > > Rakesh > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 15:06:31 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:06:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908120225p49fa0b11n32fe7d66fafd4213@mail.gmail.com> References: <4eab87870908110058g6cdc57fco9208399f1ecf6192@mail.gmail.com> <232101.51937.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908112025t4d5ca542if7d47bdd3920529e@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908120225p49fa0b11n32fe7d66fafd4213@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Murali ji I feel that any step should have public support, and therefore imposing a civil code without any support is wrong. Moreover, people are not patients who will take the 'medicinal' code passively, but they are 'agents' who will actually change their behavior or not (depending on social circumstances as well) with respect to the code. Therefore, the code itself must be debated in the first place. Regards Rakesh From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 12 15:14:13 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 02:44:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] The Wall Project : Mumbai In-Reply-To: <2482459d0908120130y30718874uf5d7254b4b3e6c90@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <835146.71239.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> 1. Graffiti & Slumming Around Chapel Road, Bandra http://phyre.wordpress.com/2009/03/08/graffiti-slumming-around-chapel-road-bandra/     2. a tribute to our cat, nako. http://ditikotecha.blogspot.com/2009/03/tribute-to-our-cat-nako.html     3.  painting on the naval dockyard wall http://mindlessmumbai.blogspot.com/2008/02/blogging-after-5-days-partly-because-of.html     4. ":A roadside art!" on webpage http://www.celebratebandra.net/news.asp     5. Sex on the wall http://www.mid-day.com/news/2009/jul/050709-Graffiti-Vandals-vulgar-messages-Sophia-College-South-Mumbai-News-Racial-slurs.htm     6. Forging ind uses wall graffiti to showcase its plight http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/forging-ind-uses-wall-graffiti-to-showcase-its-plight/57671/on         7. Graffiti on my wall http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/graffitimy-wall/346913/   8. Graffitifying your community http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=15709241   --- On Wed, 8/12/09, kaiwan mehta wrote: From: kaiwan mehta Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The Wall Project : Mumbai To: "Jeebesh" Cc: "sarai list" Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 2:00 PM Hi, I have come to know of the Wall Project only through this email and the corresponding weblinks. So the following response is based on that. As much as it sounds good, full of enthusiasm and interesting, and for sure good willing... there should also be a note of caution, some clarity on the larger purpose and course of life of such projects and it should encourage some discussion too. Some projects are nice when they happen in some and certain corners of city, just because they work or add some required element of life and urbanity in some parts of the city - it for sure does not mean duplicating it, replicating it everywhere and anywhere in the city will make sense. It would be more interesting to share this concept with people and participants from different areas - but the same team need not be the main or central participants or initiators in all the different areas. The team or group which started this, should not travel with paints and brushes and their ideas everywhere, they should rather insist only on facilitating similiar concepts for other interested areas/neighbourhoods and the people/participants/enthusiasts for/from there. In the past the city has seen some philanthrophic public art projects and now we all have to live with them. About 2 or 3 years ago we had students from the J J School of Art making large sculptures of cows and elephants and painting them in many different ways and with different graphic themes and scattering them all around Churchgate station. This was supported by the Indian Merchants Chambers who was incidentally celebrating their some 100 or 150 years anniversary. There was some discussion on this in the media and this public art thrust upon us needed more thinking for sure! Luckily the media discussion in the daily press and in the architecture magazine that I worked for then had some interesting discussion, and I think it also dettered the thought of extension of this project to other parts of the city blindly, by just simply duplicating the same again and again. It was the same time that one other city philanthrophist visited some port city abroad, saw some wall painting project there and decided on painting the walls (sure s/he got them painted by some 'local' artists, did not do it her/himself) of the port area near Lion Gate - till today we are suffereing some bad images from a discovered history of Mumbai/Bombay! Architects, builders, policy makers, and now some 'concerned' 'citizen groups' are already imposing visual pallettes and their versions of urbanity upon us... a project like this should not land up adding to the list; in fact a project like this has the ability to detour some of the visual menaces otherwise thrust upon us, but this needs thinking and lots of open discussion, and not one approach, but a range of approches within a conceptual framework. At no point I wish to disturb any enthusiasm, or disturb a concept that I think is interesting - but for sure I feel that this concept should never be the baby of one group - it is not about sharing the practice but sharing the concept. The group may say that they are inviting others to participate. No, that is not what I am talking about. It is not about collaborations, but completely giving away. The group that started this in Bandra or wherever, should hand over the idea to other groups or enthusiasts in other parts of the city, if they are concerned seriously about the city the way they speak of. They should encourage other groups, to come forward, take the concept, and then the new group can play around with it as they wish, within the spirit (not rules) of the concept. This will encourage a range of responses and ideas - there maybe some failures, dissapointments, etc. But still it is better than one group steering how the many walls in this city should or will look. There maybe people in this city that like blank walls - well if they do enjoy that lack or colour or texture, let's respect that too! Thanks for reading... Kind regards, Kaiwan On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Jeebesh wrote: > The Wall Project : Mumbai (www.thewallproject.com) > > Dear All, > > A bit about us & the new initiative. > > ABOUT > The Wall Project, a humble project that started out with a few > enthusiastic people, is growing to be a bigger, better project. It was > an initiative to add visual elements of colour, form and texture to a > space, to make the area more alive and generate a feeling among people > who pass by it daily. > > This process allows one to be more observant about the spaces we use > and move within and how we can use various art forms in the public > sphere to generate an interest in the minds of our daily human lives. > The Wall Project in its own way tries to start a conversation, with no > political or religious attachments. > > THE GREAT WALL OF MUMBAI > > The Wall Project  along with the Municipal Corporation of Mumbai is > initiating painting sessions on the Tulsi Pipe Road, stretching from > Mahim to Dadar running along the Western Railway line in Mumbai.  The > first phase starts on the 15th -16th August 2009,  0800 HRS onwards. > > > CANVAS > - look for an arrow indicating the start point on the Walls of Tulsi > Pipe Road, (closer to Mahim(West) Railway station) And we could begin > painting in that direction. > -  it would be nice to come prepared with a thought about what you > would like to paint and how much wall space you will require. > > > > HOW TO PARTICIPATE > - its open to all. show up on 15th/16th August, 08:00am - 08:00pm and > paint your style. > - if you are apprehensive about painting all by yourself then you > could assist people who are painting. > - you could come as a group (friends, family etc) with hopefully a > constructive idea and paint it. > > > PLEASE KEEP IN MIND > * no adverts, no religious writings on the wall, hopefully no > political slogans, no foul language. > > * there is a limited amount of paint supplies on location, so early > birds... > > * being a weekend/national holiday some paint/hardware shops may be > shut or close shop early, so you would want to check on what you > require in advance. > > ** clean up around you once your wall is complete  J > > > All further updates will be on THE WALL PROJECT group on > FACEBOOK. :-)       direct link > > If you have any queries please do not hesitate to write in at  - > info at thewallproject.com > > Hope to c u there. > > The Wall Project Team > > > ----- > www.thewallproject.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 15:16:19 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:16:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908120240x294eec32k214eda0886bda908@mail.gmail.com> References: <4eab87870908110058g6cdc57fco9208399f1ecf6192@mail.gmail.com> <232101.51937.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908112025t4d5ca542if7d47bdd3920529e@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908120225p49fa0b11n32fe7d66fafd4213@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908120240x294eec32k214eda0886bda908@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes, but it need not be chaotic. First, a debate needs to take place among intellectuals concerned on the subject itself, followed by the upper class. At the same time, simultaneously, it needs to be taken at the grass root level, among the people, who are then told about the different points of view. The merits and demerits of each view must be made heard, which is quite possible through the gram sabha. At the same time, what must be looked at is that no infringement of the deserved freedoms of individuals of any section or group takes place, which is unjust. And say after a proper debate for about a year or two, let us go for a referendum. After all, that is very little time compared to the time taken for the Right To Information and the NREGA to get passed after so many struggles (of which most of us would have heard little or nothing about). From murali.chalam at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 15:10:44 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:10:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: References: <4eab87870908110058g6cdc57fco9208399f1ecf6192@mail.gmail.com> <232101.51937.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908112025t4d5ca542if7d47bdd3920529e@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908120225p49fa0b11n32fe7d66fafd4213@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908120240x294eec32k214eda0886bda908@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh ji, A small clarification. When you say public debate will the entire population be allowed to debate on the issue. If that be so, it will be chaotic and there will be no end. Regards, V Murali On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Murali ji > > I feel that any step should have public support, and therefore imposing a > civil code without any support is wrong. Moreover, people are not patients > who will take the 'medicinal' code passively, but they are 'agents' who will > actually change their behavior or not (depending on social circumstances as > well) with respect to the code. > > Therefore, the code itself must be debated in the first place. > > Regards > > Rakesh > From monica at sarai.net Wed Aug 12 14:44:54 2009 From: monica at sarai.net (Monica Narula) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:44:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Is it now a crime to be poor? Message-ID: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/09/opinion/09ehrenreich.html?_r=2&emc=eta1 Is it now a crime to be poor? By BARBARA EHRENREICH Published: August 8, 2009 IT’S too bad so many people are falling into poverty at a time when it’s almost illegal to be poor. You won’t be arrested for shopping in a Dollar Store, but if you are truly, deeply, in-the-streets poor, you’re well advised not to engage in any of the biological necessities of life — like sitting, sleeping, lying down or loitering. TO READ MORE< GO TO LINK Monica Narula Raqs Media Collective Sarai-CSDS www.raqsmediacollective.net www.sarai.net From murali.chalam at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 15:28:58 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:28:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: References: <4eab87870908110058g6cdc57fco9208399f1ecf6192@mail.gmail.com> <232101.51937.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908112025t4d5ca542if7d47bdd3920529e@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908120225p49fa0b11n32fe7d66fafd4213@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908120240x294eec32k214eda0886bda908@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908120258v2a9c2afx85e5dccb6b07e2d9@mail.gmail.com> Will the muslims come out of their Sharia laws to be in-line with the common civil code. They will be even pampered by the politicians for their vote bank and I have my reservations on it if it will ever see the light of the day. Regards, V Murali On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 3:16 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Yes, but it need not be chaotic. First, a debate needs to take place among > intellectuals concerned on the subject itself, followed by the upper class. > At the same time, simultaneously, it needs to be taken at the grass root > level, among the people, who are then told about the different points of > view. The merits and demerits of each view must be made heard, which is > quite possible through the gram sabha. At the same time, what must be looked > at is that no infringement of the deserved freedoms of individuals of any > section or group takes place, which is unjust. > > And say after a proper debate for about a year or two, let us go for a > referendum. After all, that is very little time compared to the time taken > for the Right To Information and the NREGA to get passed after so many > struggles (of which most of us would have heard little or nothing about). > > > From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 12 15:34:49 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 03:04:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <872756.66456.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> "intellectuals"?   Hmmmnnnn Who are they?   "upper class"?    Hmmmmnnnn Who are they?   " people, ... are then told about the different points of view" ? Hmmmmn Who tells them?     Quite a talking down   --- On Wed, 8/12/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: From: Rakesh Iyer Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite To: "Murali V" Cc: "Kshmendra Kaul" , "sarai list" Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 3:16 PM Yes, but it need not be chaotic. First, a debate needs to take place among intellectuals concerned on the subject itself, followed by the upper class. At the same time, simultaneously, it needs to be taken at the grass root level, among the people, who are then told about the different points of view. The merits and demerits of each view must be made heard, which is quite possible through the gram sabha. At the same time, what must be looked at is that no infringement of the deserved freedoms of individuals of any section or group takes place, which is unjust. And say after a proper debate for about a year or two, let us go for a referendum. After all, that is very little time compared to the time taken for the Right To Information and the NREGA to get passed after so many struggles (of which most of us would have heard little or nothing about). From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 15:58:15 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:58:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: <872756.66456.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <872756.66456.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Kshamendra Good questions indeed. Intellectuals won't refer to our TV media created 'specialists', nor would it necessarily involve news-creating people. They would refer to those who have done thorough research on the subject, as well as on inter linkings with other issues (like gender equality, freedoms & capabilities, necessity for people, etc. ) The upper class here refers to those who are powerful politically, particularly because these are people who are important and responsible, in a certain sense (though not in a complete or holistic sense) towards their constituents. Hence, they must also be involved in the talks. At the same time, discussions must also go on in the public, and things can move ahead from there. Who tells the people about the different points of view? Good question. Those who are making the demands of such a code, and those who reject such demands. So Murali jee should prepare himself for a tour of India, or at least support an organization financially in some way and get some volunteers who can do this work. They can start off on a village to village basis, and such volunteers can take their own time. Similarly, those who oppose him should also undertake such campaigns on their own. And most importantly, there should be public discussions and questioning of such views and their merits and demerits as well. The problem as I see it, Kshamendra jee, is not so much with the demand as with the class which makes this demand. I have never heard of villagers asking for a Uniform Civil Code, or going for a dharna for it. That's because it's least connected with their lives, or also because they have taken certain things for granted. It's the urban class and specifically some members within it, who ask for the same. Murali jee probably wants the decision of some people after discussions to be imposed on the people, but I reject that approach because then there is no difference between the British Raj and the Indian government. Therefore, public discussions are the need of the hour for those who want to see such a Code in practice and in Constitution. As I see it, there are other problems as well. To have a public discussion, there needs to be proper education and spread of information, which in itself requires time and dedicated volunteers for the same. Similarly, when society takes certain things for granted (such as adherence to religious gurus of any religion), the idea of changing that also takes time, and innovative and creative ways as well. Also, the very idea of making decisions at the top and imposing them on people at the bottom, the top-down approach, is something I dislike because it never works and it never takes the concern of those at the bottom into consideration. This is unlike the struggles for RTI and NREGA which started at the bottom and culminated at the top with the introduction of the respective acts. Therefore, I have no objection if someone demands the Code, but let us have public discussions and public action on the subject, and let us then see the issue. The intellectual discussion is necessary on the subject so that different views can be known. And it's not as if this exercise starts and stops. It begins and continues even as politicians, common people and other stake holders are involved in the process of deliberations and discussion. But to begin from somewhere, this discussion between intellectuals can help. It gives basis points for debating the topic or the issue, and then on other points which are valuable can be added. Otherwise they can also go to the grass root and start from there to build public pressure for the same. That is also fine. Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 16:12:34 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 16:12:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 12 Message-ID: ------------------------------ [image: Frontline] *Volume 24 - Issue 19 :: Sep. 22-Oct. 05, 2007* INDIA'S NATIONAL MAGAZINE from the publishers of THE HINDU *•* Contents ------------------------------ [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] *DEPRIVATION* * Hungry and dying * ANNIE ZAIDI * Hunger and malnutrition stalk Madhya Pradesh villages despite schemes to improve the services of anganwadis and nutrition centres. * A.M. FARUQUI * At Kairi Chowka village in Raisen district. There is no anganwadi here and the nearest ICDS centre is about three kilometres away. * HUNGER is unpalatable. For a government that wishes to assert that it is not callous, it is particularly so. But hunger, with a capital H, is a pill that millions of people in Madhya Pradesh continue to swallow. In 2005 and 2006, *Frontline* reported acute malnutrition from Sheopur and Shivpuri districts in Madhya Pradesh. Since then, there has been some change: new schemes have been announced; the recruitment policy for anganwadi workers has changed; there is a new menu for the anganwadis; and more Nutrition Rehabilitation Centres (NRCs) are being opened. Anganwadis are Integrated Child Development Scheme (ICDS) centres. However, it would be wise to keep in mind that not all changes have been positive. According to the 2005-2006 National Family Health Survey (NFHS-3), the percentage of underweight children in Madhya Pradesh increased from 54 in 1998-99 to 60, and the percentage of wasted (extremely malnourished) children from 20 to 33. POOR COMPENSATION Many changes over the past decade have pushed villagers who once had enough to eat into a spiral of food insecurity and the uncertain arms of the public distribution system (PDS). There appears to be a direct link between access to forests and hunger in tribal hamlets. Madhya Pradesh has 29 national parks and reserved forest areas, and each of them has meant displacement and deprivation for the tribal people. Take Balharpur village in Shivpuri for instance, less than an hour’s drive from Shivpuri town. About eight years ago, its residents, most of them belonging to the Sahariya tribe, were moved out of the Madhav National Park and dumped upon a stony, non-irrigated tract of land near the highway. Earlier, they had lived close to a river and had water for both farming and drinking. During the non-farming season, they collected and sold *tendu* leaves, herbs and honey to be able to buy things needed to supplement their diet. Each family had cows and goats. While moving, the villagers set their cattle free near the Balhar Mata temple in the forest. They were certain they would not have access to grazing land in the New Balharpur village. They were right. NO ROOF OVERHEAD Today, the village has neither fields nor cattle nor jobs. What it does have is people like Makkobai. Her husband and one son already dead and confronted with the prospect of losing her other son and daughter-in-law, she was forced to sell off her roof. Each family was given built houses, without toilets or taps, when they relocated; rough slabs of stone placed in a lattice formed the roof. Makkobai sold these stone slabs for Rs.2,500. She sleeps in other people’s houses. Makkobai should have been entitled to a health card, issued under the Deen Dayal Antyodaya Upchar Yojna, which would have provided the family free medical treatment worth Rs.20,000. But she does not have one. Another widow, Bisna, shrugs off the suggestion of visiting hospitals. “What will the doctor do? There’s nothing to eat anyway.” Like others in her village, she is almost entirely dependent on subsidised PDS rations. Everybody does not have a “yellow card”, the Antyodaya ration card, which marks the Sahariyas as the poorest of the poor. The Sahariyas are entitled to them, being a Primitive Tribal Group. Not surprisingly, malnutrition amongst the children is plain to see, even to the untrained eye. They also claim that the Guna Grameen Kshetriya Bank allows each family to withdraw only Rs.8,000 of the Rs.20,000 given as compensation for displacement. And most of it has been spent repaying loans taken at interest rates as high as 100 per cent. The rest of the money was set aside for “land development” purposes. The very phrase “land development” makes villagers spit in anger. Jamna, an elderly widow, told *Frontline*: “What are you supposed to do with your stomach until this land gets developed? And how will the land be developed without water? All we have is one functional hand pump.” The men have been forced to migrate to places such as Ghati-Gaon near Gwalior, where there is work in the stone quarries. They live a whole month in the quarries and return with no more than Rs.500, and often with tuberculosis as well. There are 26 widows out of a total adult female population of 87. Another village in Shivpuri district, Amola, which was displaced in August 2006 to make way for the Manikheda dam project, presents a gloomier face. It is now home to Lakshmi, the six-month-old baby who has just returned from the NRC in Shivpuri. She was discharged after 14 days but remains a “grade four case” – severe malnutrition that, if untreated, will lead to death. The village has no pucca houses, and the administration did not provide toilets either. The Sahariya women are distraught since people of other castes or communities refuse to let them use their fields. They even threaten to bury the women alive if they attempt to enter their fields. Even the five quintals of grain, which was promised as interim relief for displacement, did not materialise. Some families got *pattas* but others were already farming the same strip of land. Most of the villagers migrate or work for contractors, filling dumpers with sand for Rs.20 a day, or walk to the nearest forest area and cut wood. LOSS OF LIVELIHOOD A young woman, Kusna, threw an axe and a small bundle near this correspondent’s feet and sat down. She had been collecting wood all day, which she sold in the nearest town market for Rs.30. “The bus fare cost me Rs.10. What was left bought me this bundle of leaves, which I will cook tonight as vegetables. Earlier, we could collect gum, honey, herbs. Now what?” Now, there is the iffy dependence on rations and the struggle to obtain “yellow cards”. Even this battle is an uphill one. Recently, the panchayat secretary was suspended after he was arrested for irregularities. He had allegedly tried to sell Below Poverty Line (BPL) cards for Rs.500 each. The day *Frontline* visited Amola, an unidentified man had dropped in earlier, claiming to be the new secretary. While he was yet to take charge, the villagers alleged that he was already asking for bribes: Rs.10 a card. Little wonder then that as budgets for schemes grow, so does food insecurity and the great corruption initiative. In Sheopur district, there were instances of gross irregularities concerning the National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme (NREGS). *Frontline* found such irregularities in Patalgarh village in 2006 too, where several children died of malnutrition. According to Uma Chaturvedi, a fellow of the Right to Food Campaign for Sheopur, there are fresh attempts to fudge cards. “For example, in Naya Gaon in Vijaypur block, which is one of the 28 villages displaced for the Kuno National Park, people worked for and were paid for two to four days on an average, but all the cards have entries stating ‘77 days’. The villagers met the District Collector to complain about the resultant embezzlement in May, but so far no action has been taken.” She added that in other villages in Sheopur, such as Rohni and Ranipura, people are demanding wages pending since March, or compensatory unemployment allowance, but, again, to no avail. CM’s backyard A.M. FARUQUI * MAKKOBAI WITH HER surviving son. She had to sell off the stone slabs that formed her roof and now sleeps in other people's houses. * Sachin Kumar Jain, who works with the Right to Food Campaign, admits that the State government at least has the decency not to turn a blind eye to hunger. “Under pressure from the media, the Supreme Court and civil society groups, the government acknowledged the problem; even the bureaucracy has shown some political sensitivity. Yet, hunger is a problem even in Budhni [in Sehore district], which is part of Chief Minister Shivraj Singh Chauhan’s constituency.” According to reports by Raju Kumar who works with Vikas Samvad, Bhim Kot, one of the villages in Budhni block, is rife with malnourished children. “We weighed the children and found that 24 out of 25 were malnourished. Nineteen years later, and despite having corresponded with the C.M., they still don’t have an anganwadi or access to health care.” Despite policy changes, major loopholes remain. Safe drinking water is not considered a part of crucial nutritional needs. In villages such as Kairi Chowki in Raisen district, there are 10 hand pumps, of which only one functions. There is no anganwadi in Kairi Chowki either, which is also part of the Chief Minister’s parliamentary constituency (he was a Lok Sabha member when he took over as Chief Minister). The nearest ICDS centre is about 3 km away. Here, when the new ration cards were released, many people found their names struck off the BPL list. Among them were people such as Munshi Lal, who is in his 80s but receives no longer the old-age pension. In the neighbouring hamlet of Dhoop-Ghata, things are better. Many of the families have a cow or a goat and some chickens, and they are peacefully allowed to graze their animals, without interference from the forest administration. There is an anganwadi and the worker is efficient. The nurse makes regular visits and the children do not appear to be severely undernourished. Even so, life is terribly hard. The women set out at 3 a.m. They walk to Abdullaganj, the largest market in the area, to sell a bundle of firewood, for as little as Rs.40. Then they walk back, cook the noon meal and start walking again – to the forest to collect wood. A visit to the NRC in Shivpuri district is both heartrending and educative, in the context of the demographics of hunger. Nearly all the mothers and children admitted are Sahariyas. Phuliya, a woman from Khaniyadana block, had brought along her two-year-old girl Choti – all skin and bones. While she acknowledged that she got her full ration regularly, there was not much she could do to help her own child: all she could feed the baby was *dal*and *roti*. The NRC officials claim that they also have a hard time keeping the mothers in hospital for 15 days. Most women are worried about other children left behind at home. In the attempt to save one, they dare not risk losing the rest. The Director of the Department of Women and Child Welfare, Kalpana Shrivastava, agrees that the main problem is that whatever the State provides can only be supplementary nutrition, whether it is through ICDS or mid-day meals. It is hard to tackle malnutrition if hunger is a chronic problem. The State has been trying. From only *daliya* or *panjeeri*, the menu at anganwadis now includes *poha*, *laddoo* and *halwa-puri*. The process is also decentralised, with the money for supplies being sent directly to a joint account between the anganwadi worker and the local mothers’ committee. There are also attempts to “celebrate” every Tuesday as Mangal Divas, wherein pregnant women will be treated to a *godh-bharai*, birthdays will be marked, and so on. Pockets of chronic malnutrition will be allotted Rs.6 a child, instead of Rs.2, whereby children will get three meals at the anganwadi. The worker and helper will also be paid extra. Kalpana Shrivastava also claims that, in compliance with the Supreme Court’s orders, all ICDS centres sanctioned in 2007 will be made functional by the end of September. “The new nutrition policy will make a difference, but things take time to fall into place.” Organisations such as the United Nations Children’s Fund are also focussing on nutritional rehabilitation. Dr. Manohar Agnani, former Collector of Shivpuri, who was instrumental in setting up the model NRC in 2006, is now a consultant for UNICEF. TREAT THE CAUSE The target is to get 100 NRCs up and running by the end of the year and 313 by 2008. However, UNICEF State Representative Hamid El-Bashir agrees that there is a need to scratch the surface. “The ICDS is an excellent programme; it is wide-reaching and ambitious. But the State government also needs to look at income and unemployment. We can treat the symptoms, not the cause.” Yet, the NRCs are a much-needed measure in a State, which confronts the certainty of a definite number of hunger-related deaths every year. Even if the situation is improving slowly, it still looks very bad once you translate percentages into numbers. According to the 10th survey of the Bal Sanjivani Abhiyan in the State, 47.5 per cent of children under six are malnourished, of whom 0.67 per cent suffer from severe malnourishment. This is down by 0.11 per cent from the ninth survey, but, as Dr. Agnani points out, “with an average rate of 30 per cent mortality [for the severely malnourished], this means that hundreds of children will die this year. In Sheopur district [which accounts for 2.56 per cent of the severe category], up to 600 children could die.” It is a frightening fact that, despite the best efforts of concerned groups and recent policy changes, within a year, 600 children in a single district will have died because there was not enough food to eat. Sachin Kumar Jain offers another sombre reminder – most of the dead and dying will be Dalit or Adivasi tribal children. “Do you know why the Sahariyas are a Primitive Tribal Group? Amongst other parameters, it is the fact that their population is decreasing or stagnant. It is true that they bear more children, but it is also true that most of the children die. This is the result of a policy of exclusion. Schemes are only a petty compensation for depriving people of their rights.” * * ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Printer friendly page Send this article to Friends by E-Mail ------------------------------ Subscribe | Contact Us | Archives| Contents (Letters to the Editor should carry the full postal address) ------------------------------ Home | The Hindu | Business Line | Sportstar | Publications | eBooks| Images ------------------------------ Copyright © 2007, Frontline. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of Frontline ------------------------------ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 16:34:31 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 16:34:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 12 Message-ID: Dear all This is not an article which is directly related to RTF, but in an integrated approach, the RTF could have played an important role, though only as a supplement to major solutions for the agrarian sector. I henceforth put this article, where it could also look at the issue of hunger and poverty as well as well being. Regards Rakesh Article: *Vol:21 Iss:13* *URL: http://www.flonnet.com/fl2113/stories/20040702004902700.htm* ------------------------------ Back *COVER STORY* * A QUESTION OF HUMAN RIGHTS * K.R. VENUGOPAL * The continuing neglect of the life-and-death problems faced by the farmers in Andhra Pradesh constitutes a serious violation of human rights enshrined in the Constitution and various international covenants. A policy regime that recognises farmers' rights as human rights is the need of the hour. * THE Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) adopted by the United Nations in 1948 affirms in Article 3 that everyone has the right to life. The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, 1966, which India has ratified, affirms in Article 6 that every human being has the inherent right to life. The Declaration on the Right to Development adopted by the U.N. General Assembly in 1986 affirms that equality of opportunity to development is a prerogative of individuals within a nation and that states have a duty to formulate appropriate development policies that aim at the well-being of all individuals on the basis of their meaningful participation in development and in the fair distribution of the benefits resulting therefrom. It also calls for state intervention for the realisation of the right to development by ensuring equality of opportunity for all in their access to basic resources. A. ROY CHOWDHURY * At Obulavari village in Anantapur district, daily wage workers hunt for rabbits, the only source of food during droughts. The Central and State governments simply neglected agriculture. This is something every agricultural economist has observed during the past decade. * The UDHR affirms in Article 21.2 that everyone has the right to equal access to public services in one's country. Article 11.2(a) of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR), 1966, which India has ratified, refers to reforming agrarian systems in such a way as to achieve the most efficient development and utilisation of natural resources. Article 25 of the UDHR stipulates that everyone has the right to security in the event of widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond one's control. Discrimination is an attitude that is frowned upon by every instrument in the universe of human rights. And equality of treatment and dignity in every circumstance of life is upheld in these instruments. India's Protection of Human Rights Act, 1993, defines human rights as "the rights relating to life, liberty, equality and dignity of the individual guaranteed by the Constitution or embodied in the International Covenants and enforceable by courts in India". In the current context of farmers' suicides in Andhra Pradesh, what strikes one most is the fact that these farmers had taken their own lives. In doing so, they forfeited their right to life, a right and freedom acknowledged as most precious by Justice Douglas of the U.S. Supreme Court decades ago. The Supreme Court of India in any number of judgments has held that the right to life guaranteed in Article 21 of our Constitution includes "the right to livelihood because no person can live without the means of living, i.e., the means of livelihood". The life so guaranteed, "does not connote mere animal existence or continued drudgery through life" but a right to live with human dignity, free from exploitation. There are several reasons why farmers in Andhra Pradesh and Karnataka have taken their own lives. The major reasons among these are absence of adequate and timely credit, especially institutional credit, driving farmers into the arms of the usurious moneylenders, inadequate crop insurance schemes that lack timely reimbursements and exclude non-loanees, spurious seeds and insecticides and fertilizer pricing. These permanent features of our system have been compounded by continuous droughts, leading to ill-directed investments in failed borewells and failed crops and driving the farmers to desperation. There are regional variations but what has been constant is the non-recognition of the need to tackle all these problems together as a package, with appropriate regulatory, supervisory and extension mechanisms in place, strict discipline in tapping groundwater and provision of full credit requirements and insurance cover for failed wells. THERE are other structural issues as well. Tenant farmers cultivate more than 60 per cent of the land in Andhra Pradesh. However, their landlords ensure that there is no record to show this. In the absence of a recorded tenancy, the tenant is unable to secure any institutional credit for his agricultural operations and is driven to the moneylenders. This leads to gross exploitation. Everyone associated with agriculture knows this truth but there has been no effort at enforcing a transparent regime of agrarian relationship. The situation that is affecting the tenant cultivators in Andhra Pradesh is a negation of Article 11.2(a) of the ICESCR. Their situation defeats the overall objective of the amendment to Article 31 of the Constitution. This is also a violation of Article 38(2) in Part IV of the Constitution, which lays down, as a fundamental principle of governance, that the state shall in particular strive to minimise the inequalities in income and endeavour to eliminate inequalities in status, facilities and opportunities, not only amongst individuals but also amongst groups of people. It is also a violation of Article 39(b) and (c) which state that the ownership and control of the material resources of the community are so distributed as best to sub-serve the common good and that the operation of the economic system does not result in the concentration of wealth and means of production to the common detriment. Credit is certainly a material resource that enhances agricultural income and is vital for those with little or no assets. The Supreme Court has also reiterated the well-recognised paradigm that in the context of agrarian reforms, the greatest incentive for maximum production is the feeling of identity and security, which is possible only if the ownership of the land is with the tiller (AIR 1987 SC1518). All this has to be viewed in the context of Article 48 of the Constitution, which casts a responsibility on the state to organise agriculture on modern and scientific lines. Even if the state is lacking in the political will to take up land reforms, it should, along with the banking system, explore methods such as group security to nullify the veto that the landlords exercise today on credit to the tenants. The banking system should play a lead role here to rectify the tilt that exists in favour of the non-farm sector - a tilt distinguished by gargantuan non-performing assets (NPAs). The total volume of agricultural credit requirements estimated by the National Bank for Agriculture and Rural Development (NABARD) for Andhra Pradesh is about Rs.11,000 crores. Many experts place the actual requirement at about Rs.20,000 crores. Against this, even by NABARD's estimates, the actual flow will not exceed about Rs.9,000 crores. This serious gap is compounded if one realises that the actual credit flow was around Rs.7,900 crores in 2003-04 - a gap of 28 per cent in the credit "targeted" for disbursement. Add to this the gap in policy and implementation as the Reserve Bank of India's (RBI) announcement that no security is required for loans up to Rs.50,000 for production loans, while public sector and cooperative banks insist on such security on the field. Farmers' associations say that lending to the agriculture sector does not even touch 10 per cent whereas the guidelines stipulate 18 per cent of total lending. There are three different rates of interest charged by banks depending on whether they are in the cooperative or public or private sector. The Expert Committee on Farmers' Suicides in Karnataka says: "...the preference to borrow from moneylenders when compared with formal institutions, clearly reflects that the opportunity cost of going through the process is equal to the difference between formal and informal lenders." Juxtaposed with the flourishing market for informal credit, these facts show that there is neither equality nor equity in the availability of credit to the farmers. This is a violation of the principle governing the rights mentioned in the Declaration on the Right to Development. Banks should consciously promote equal access to credit to all the farmers. In canalising credit micro-level efforts must be directed at specifically reaching tenants and small and marginal farmers. LET us look at two typical cases that I looked into on behalf of the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) in Anantapur district in 2002. Boya Narsimhulu of Cheyyedu committed suicide at the age of 48. His widow, Lakshmamma (40), has four children - two girls and two boys. They had five acres of dry land with no water facility. Groundnut, their normal crop, failed for five years successively, affected by `Bud Necrosis'. He had contracted a debt of Rs.1,50,000 (principal alone) including that borrowed from as many as 15 farmers at an interest rate of 24 per cent and Rs.40, 000 from the Primary Agricultural Society and Rs.30,000 from a public sector bank. Incidentally, the economic condition of the agricultural families in the two married daughters is also now in the doldrums. Crop failure was the sole reason for her husband's suicide, says Laksmamma. Her husband was constantly worried and burdened by the thought of his debts. She was in dire straits as the creditors were pressing her hard for repayment of the debt. The only way she could do this was by selling her 5 acres, which would render her a destitute for life. She was reduced to the position of a daily wage labourer at Rs.20 for 9 hours of work a day but such work was hard to come by because of drought conditions. Often she was without work. Her son, Jayaram (17), who had studied up to the Standard VII, went to work in a quarry from 5 a.m. to 4 p.m. at a maximum wage of Rs.50 a day, depending on availability and out-turn. For two months prior to my meeting them, there had been no food-for-work programme in the area. Jayaram benefited by this programme for a few days earlier but it had been stopped. In the case of Pullalarevu Prabavathi of Ramanepalli village, the public sector bank from whom her late husband had borrowed Rs.20,000 had been demanding repayment and suggesting that she sell away her five acres of dry land, which would render her destitute for all time to come. She had other debts amounting to Rs.2.30 lakhs, borrowed from about 20 private creditors. Prabavathi was working as a coolie for a daily wage of Rs.20; that is, when such work was available at all. She said that sheer hunger, in the context of crop failure, forces people (like her husband) to borrow but credit is very hard to come by even at rates ranging from 25 to 36 per cent. The point that should be remembered at all times in such a context is that the entire burden of the loss of a breadwinner owing to these dysfunctional policies and the failure of extension is borne by the women and children of the families concerned. If this burden is not lifted off their shoulders by the state, the rights assured for them in the U.N. Declaration on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women, 1967, the Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Discrimination against Women (CEDAW), 1979, and the Convention on the Rights of the Child, 1989, all get compromised. Failure of the state in this regard discredits democracy itself. Failure to rehabilitate the agricultural system also postpones the welfare of the rural labour and other poorer sections of the population, especially jeopardises the whole range of rights, though these rights are being slowly ceded to them in terms of the various constitutional provisions both in Chapter III and Chapter IV in areas like the right to food, health, minimum living and fair wages and equal remuneration, thanks mainly to the intervention of the Supreme Court. To the extent there was failure on the part of the state to go to the rescue of such families of suicide victims, there has been a breach of Article 25 of UDHR. A. ROY CHOWDHURY * At a drought-affected village near Kadiri in Anantapur district. * AS Leader of the Opposition in the Andhra Pradesh Legislative Assembly, the present Chief Minister Dr. Y.S. Rajasekhara Reddy, had taken up the question of farmers' suicides in Andhra Pradesh in September 2001 by way of a complaint with the NHRC. He argued that the loss of lives was on account of state negligence and failure to implement policies leading to violation of human rights. The main thrust of his complaint was that the State government's failure in its "duty to supply seeds of quality, power, fertilizers and pesticides" to the farmers and that it supplied spurious seeds to the farmers, particularly groundnut seeds in Anantapur district. This resulted in crop failures, which trapped the farmers in huge debts, but the government itself through its instrumentalities such as the cooperative and commercial banks and through application of the Revenue Recovery Act had been pressuring the farmers to repay loans leading to their humiliation, social ostracisation and eventually suicide. Hence a prayer was made to the NHRC, *inter alia*, to direct the Government of Andhra Pradesh to pay a compensation of Rs.1 lakh each to the families of the deceased and declare that there was violation of human rights. If we read the rights that the Constitution and the various international instruments provide to citizens in the context of the predicament faced by the farmers of Andhra Pradesh, the conclusion is inescapable that continuing neglect of the serious problems faced by the farmers would attract Section 12(a)(ii) of the Protection of Human Rights Act 1993, namely, negligence in the prevention of violation of human rights. There are judicial precedents of grant of compensation by way of relief where the deceased was the only breadwinner of the family if gross negligence on the part of the authorities to provide protection was shown, though the context might be different. However, as seen by us, here we have a plethora of actors involved in the tragedy that has unfolded over the years. The central conclusion that emerges is that there has been failure of policy at the Central and State levels considering that under the Constitution under Schedule 7 both these governments have responsibilities for agriculture, banking and a host of other related issues that are at play. Normally responsibility has to be fixed on governments and individuals for neglect. If we have to pinpoint the neglect then we have to say that the Central and State governments simply neglected agriculture. This is some thing every agricultural economist has observed during the past decade. The compensation that they should pay to the farmers of Andhra Pradesh in particular, and of the rest of India in general, should help restore agriculture to its rightful place in the scheme of governance. As for those families who can be identified as genuine victims of neglect, the present State government in Andhra Pradesh has extended certain immediate relief. What is further required is an agricultural policy regime that recognises farmers' rights as human rights and develops policies that would stand the test of such rights. ------------------------------ *K.R. Venugopal, a former Secretary to the Prime Minister, is a Special Rapporteur for the National Human Rights Commission. The views expressed in this article are his own and do not represent those of the NHRC.* * * From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 16:43:16 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 16:43:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 12 Message-ID: Online edition of India's National Newspaper Sunday, Jun 13, 2004 Group Publications Business Line The Sportstar Frontline The Hindu About Us Contact Us *Magazine* Published on Sundays Features: Magazine | Literary Review | Life| Metro Plus | Open Page| Education Plus | Book Review| Business | SciTech| Entertainment | Young World | Property Plus| Quest | Folio| Magazine [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] * Cup of misery * The closure of tea plantations in West Bengal has led to an unprecedented human tragedy as workers struggle to survive. SUNIL SCARIA writes of their trials and tribulations. AP IT was 8.45 p.m. on March 7. Around 250 Raimatang tea estate workers were waiting for the tribunal to arrive. The tribunal was to have come at 5.00 p.m. But workers in the five gardens the tribunal visited earlier had endless tales of sufferings. We reach the "enclave" at 8.50 p.m. There is no electricity. Ever since the garden was closed, the electricity has been disconnected. Two lanterns were lit and we began recording their voices. I moved aside to chat with 17-year-old Rakesh while the tribunal hearing was in progress. I had heard that many children had to drop out of schools and college. Rakesh was in his second year at a Siliguri college. I asked him if he still went to college. His reply was that he used to go once a month, but had stopped in the last four months because it cost about Rs. 30 a day to travel to Siliguri and get food for the day. His family hardly earned Rs. 50 and he had to work to augment the family income. He spoke about how young girls went to neighbouring states like Sikkim as domestic help or became sex workers to support the family. Twenty-five-year-old Ratia Oraon (name changed) stands out against the green tea bushes in her pink sari and bright lipstick as she hurries down the ribbon-like walk of Palashbari tea estate towards the dingy labour lines. That is where her client, a labourer at Palashbari, stays. Ratia will be paid Rs. 30 an hour. Her customers are from Chamurchi, Haldibari, Mahabir tea estates, neighbouring Kanthalguri tea estate where she stays. With the Kanthalguri estate closed since July 22, 2002, and starvation deaths becoming a regular feature (400 people have already died), a section of the women has resorted to prostitution as the only way out. "After lockout was declared in the garden, we plucked the leaves and sold them. Then we sold the trees for firewood and some people even sold the furniture, doors, and windowpanes of the manager's bungalow for food. There is nothing left now so we have taken to this. It is better than seeing my little brother die," says Ratia. Education is not the only thing that suffers. Tea plantations in India are witnessing an unprecedented human tragedy. Plantations in North Bengal have been feeling the heat for a couple of years now and the media has been highlighting the crisis, especially the plight of the workers. In view of the persistent reports of starvation and other abuses in the tea gardens of North Bengal, Swadhikar, a voluntary society of Jalpaiguri, requested Indian People's Tribunal (IPT) to visit the area in order to determine the facts and make recommendations on that basis. The Tribunal constituted a bench under Justice (Retired) Hosbet Suresh, which included Harsh Mander, Dr. Manas Dasgupta, Samar Nath Chatterjee, Gayatri Singh, Virginius Xaxa and Ranjit Sarkar. The Tribunal visited six gardens, namely Kathalguri, Dheklapara, Ramjhora, Mujnai, Kalchini and Raimatang on March 7 and held public hearing on March 8, 9 and 10, in Jalpaiguri to record oral and written statements. A study by the West Bengal Right to Food and Work Network showed that as many as 22 plantations, 21,000 permanent workers and about 95, 000 people have been affected in Jalpaiguri district alone. A door-to-door survey of 204 households in two plantations by the study team revealed an even more frightening picture. The average number of deaths a year was increasing by 241 per cent after closure of the plantations. The death registers show that most of the workers die due to blood dysentery and cardio-respiratory failure. However the majority of causes are either "not given" or "others". There is an acute drinking water problem in all the gardens after they were shut down and the electricity and water supply was disconnected. People use river water for drinking. This water is highly contaminated with dolomite from the cement manufacturing factories. Even the ground water is unfit for drinking due to large-scale application of fertilizers, pesticides and agrochemicals in the tea gardens. The causes for the problem are many. The most common is the fall in prices, which is attributed to over supply. But paradoxically tea prices fall while the demand for tea increases. It defies the supply-demand equation. PARTH SANYAL * Children collecting wood for fuel instead of going to school. * Tea gardens are "enclaves", cut off from the surrounding people and economy. During the colonial period, labourers were hired from outside, given housing and incorporated into a new form of society dictated by the management and designed solely to suit the needs of the plantations. Tea plantation workers in eastern India are fourth-generation descendants of immigrants brought by the colonial planters 150 years ago from the tribal tracts of Bengal, Bihar, Jharkhand, Orissa, Madhya Pradesh, and Nepal. Post independence, according to the Plantation Labour Act, 1951, the planters were to continue to provide healthcare facilities, transport, and elementary schools. The plantation sector still operates under the colonial legacy characterised by migrant labour, poor work conditions, low wages, and exploitative conditions. They are treated as secondary citizens and continue to live under sub-human conditions. Zia-Ul-Alam, Secretary, Cha Bagan Majdur Union (associated with CITU) said, "The nature of the present phenomenon of lock out and abandonment of tea gardens in West Bengal during the last two years is quite different from the earlier trends. The gardens that have faced this problem are either those with declining productivity in terms of land (and not labour) and over-loaned (most even more than their total asset value). These planters have sucked the land of all its resources and have failed to invest anything in the land. Instead, they abandon the garden when the productivity of the land shows declining trends". The tribunal found that there had been a large number of hunger-related deaths, resulting from a combination of starvation, malnutrition, general debility and disease, the number of deaths being not less than 800 in the six closed or abandoned gardens it visited. The Tribunal, in its interim report, came down heavily on the violations of human rights, of statutory obligations by the plantation managements, failure/inaction of the Central and State Governments in taking necessary action, and failure of the trade unions in protecting the workers. The Tribunal noted that the workers' right to food, work, healthcare and sanitation, education and decent living conditions had been severely curtailed. The managements violated their statutory obligations by misappropriating huge amounts from the workers' earned wages, salaries, bonus, rations, earned leave, provident funds, gratuity, and life insurance. They also evaded their liabilities to the government exchequer. Many operational gardens are also following this trend of not paying the wages/salaries in time, not disbursing cereals in due time, not depositing the PF amount, not paying gratuity, paying three day's wages for six days of work and are pushing the workers and their dependants into starvation and death. The Tribunal also noted that the inaction and indifference of the Central Government and the Tea Board. Under the Tea Act 1953, the Central Government has vast regulatory powers, particularly in relation to employers who have defaulted in the payment of wages and PF dues. The Centre and the Tea Board can initiate stringent measures against units if they are "managed in a manner highly detrimental to the tea industry or to public interest." The Tribunal also criticised the State Government for the indifference showed to the workers illustrated by the fact that the 2002 Below Poverty Line survey did not include the workers of the gardens even after their closure for one and a half years. The Tribunal was also critical of the trade unions. It noted that if the trade unions had been united and taken prompt steps, the conditions of workers could have been different. The Tribunal recommended: Measures for medical help, food and potable water supply, transportation needed to be taken to prevent more hunger deaths in the gardens. Prosecution of employers in order to recover dues and called for immediate cancellation of leases and setting up workers' cooperatives to run the gardens. State Government take back a portion of leased-out land for the settlement and development of non-workers and/or temporary workers and their families. Amendment of the PLA to provide for welfare measures under the Act, to be supervised by the local panchayats and the Block Development Officers. Amendment of the Tea Act to assign a proper role to the State in the matter of proper supervision and running of the tea gardens. The condition of workers in a land ruled by the workers' party is indeed sub-human. And the state is yet to realise that its duty is to protect its citizens from hunger and starvation. * The writer is the Joint Coordinator of the Indian People's Tribunal on Environment and Human Rights (IPT). E-mail: iptindia at vsnl.net * Printer friendly page Send this article to Friends by E-Mail Magazine Features: Magazine | Literary Review | Life| Metro Plus | Open Page| Education Plus | Book Review| Business | SciTech| Entertainment | Young World | Property Plus| Quest | Folio| The Hindu National Essay Contest Results Archives - Datewise - Issues - Cuisine - Travel - Gardening News News Update Front Page National States: • Tamil Nadu • Andhra Pradesh • Karnataka • Kerala • New Delhi • Other States International Opinion Business Sport Miscellaneous Index ------------------------------ The Hindu Group: Home | About Us| Copyright | Archives| Contacts | Subscription Group Sites: The Hindu | Business Line| The Sportstar | Frontline| The Hindu eBooks | Home| Comments to : thehindu at vsnl.com Copyright © 2004, The Hindu Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the written consent of The Hindu ------------------------------ From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Aug 12 16:47:46 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:17:46 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Unique Identification Authority advisory council meets in New Delhi- 192 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908120417q5ad3cbe3pc45fb694f59b8f54@mail.gmail.com> http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/india-news/unique-identification-authority-advisory-council-meets-in-new-delhi_100231336.html Unique Identification Authority advisory council meets in New Delhi August 12th, 2009 - 5:09 pm ICT by ANI New Delhi, Aug.12 (ANI): Eleven members of a council constituted by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to advise the Unique Identification Authority of India (UIAI) met here on Wednesday. The council is expected to advise the UIDAI on the program, methodology and implementation to ensure coordination between ministries, departments, stakeholders and partners. The council, headed by the Prime Minister has on its board finance minister Pranab Mukherjee, Agriculture, Food and Civil Supplies Minister Sharad Pawar, Home (Interior) Minister P. Chidambaram, Foreign Minister S.M. Krishna, Law and Justice Minister M. Veerappa Moily, Human Resource Development Minister Kapil Sibal, Rural Development & Panchayati Raj Minister C.P. Joshi, Labour and Employment Minister Mallikarjun Kharge, Communications and Information Technology Minister A. Raja, Planning Commission Deputy Chairman Montek Singh Ahluwalia, and UIDAI chairman Nandan Nilekani. Nilekani, co-founder of Infosys Technologies, who took charge as the chairman of the UIDAI last month had said the first set of Unique Identification Numbers, would be issued to the citizens within 12 to 18 months. (ANI) From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 16:53:52 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 16:53:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908100251m61055704t1d54be26379d0bd8@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908100331n1c28c00ehd849fbf88e866741@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40908100810j766969d0x1b464193a0ab87b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908120423s4a30a59evc06e33663e8c26bd@mail.gmail.com> Dear Javed, and all in the list, none would like to have the encounter deaths of the deviant in any faith of the society as it only reflects the aberration of law keepers being not accountable to the society, in general, in particular to human rights of rule of laws. But your observation of flimsy grounds is very flimsy as all the detainees have gone thru the investigations, narco tests several times, worst, the investigation could not find any "evidence" other than a motor bike sold, which I hope you also might have sold and the person who bought it did not complete the formality of registering it in new buyers name. When communal NGOs cry foul when some deviants are detained is also absurd, as if no evidence is found it is only fit that such have to be released forthwith. .Jamianagar incident which created so much public outcry, now the Solidarity of teachers having a demo for the protest against encounters is again communal as their post talks of "Muslim youth" and not about the youth in society who have fallen to bullets. This is where the movement becomes sectarian, does not become inclusive protest for the rights of all, as if only rights of "muslim youth" are violated, not of the youth in Manipur, or else where. Unless this attitude by the "teachers" who are on the rolls of jamia thinks of inclusive rights of all in the society, it is absurd and it only highlights the plight of the innocents getting ignored by the elite tv space grabbers. Regards. Rajen. On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 10:25 PM, Javed wrote: > Dear Taha and others > I actually don't care about RSS hating or loving any one. My main aim > of this post was to show how our judiciary and police is so biased. On > one hand so many Muslim youth are being arrested and killed in > encounter deaths in the name of terrorism, but the accused of the > Malegaon blast are relieved on flimsy grounds. I remember that even an > investigative journalist like Praveen Swami (who keeps inventing new > intricate modus operandi of "Indian Mujahideen" and so on) accepted in > his rare essay that the Hindu terrorism exists and the Malegaon blast > was just a tip of the iceberg. > > So, my question is: why this prejudice by the judiciary? > > J > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Taha > Mehmood<2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: > > Dear Rajen, > > > > I think you are absolutely correct. RSS do not hate Muslims. RSS is a > > mere name of an organization. A name is incapable of showing any > > emotion against or for any social group. > > > > However, lets us revisit some of the pearls of wisdom which were > > uttered by great thinkers, which many contemporary members of RSS > > simply love to read. > > > > I would like to regard Veer Vinayak Damodar Savarkar as one of them > > and I am sure you will join me, in this acknowledgment. > > > > This is what Veer Vinayak Damodar Savarkar, had to say about so > > called, 'Religious Bigotry of Indian Muslims'- > > > > " It is useless to declare only the Muslim league as communal. It is > > not news, it is a reality, that the entire Muslim community is embed > > in the spirit of communalism' > > > > [ Rana, B.S. 2004. Veer Vinayak Damodar Savarkar, p127 ] > > > > Then there was venerable Guruji. Whose love for Muslims was legendary. > > This is what Madhav Sadashiv Ggolwalkar aka Guruji had to say about > > followers of Islam in India: > > > > They [Muslims] have also developed a feeling of identification with > > the enemies of this land. They look to some foreign lands as their > > holy places. They call them selves Sheikhs and Sayeds...They still > > think they have come here to conquer and establish their kingdoms. So > > we see it not only as a change of faith and as a change of national > > identity. What else it is, if not treason, to join the camp of enemy, > > leaving the mother nation in the lurch. > > > > [words of Guruji- as cited in, Basu, T. 1993. Khaki Shorts and Saffron > > Flags. p28 ] > > > > Here's another account of goodness of Gurujee with respect to Muslims. > > I take the honor and privilege of citing the text below, directly from > > the official website of the BJP. We all know of course, how members of > > the BJP has time and again shown to every one, how much they care > > deeply about Muslims. The text below relates to what many members of > > the BJP like to call its core philosophy, which goes by a rather fuzzy > > name called- Integral Humanism. > > > > The text pertains to a lecture delivered to many thousands of patriots > > by venerable Pandit Deendayal Upadhyaya, on April 22-25, 1965. Here > > Panditjee, is trying to tell us about, distinctions about individual > > versus society and as a way of illustration, cites a conversation > > which, according to Upadhyaya jee, happened between Shri Vinobaji and > > the Sar Sanghachalak of Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, Shri Guruji, > > > > -Let me give you an illustration. Once during a conversation between > > Shri Vinobaji and the Sar Sanghachalak of Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, > > Shri Guruji, a question arose as to where the modes of thinking of > > Hindus and Muslims differ. Guruji said to Vinobaji that there are good > > and bad people in every society. There can be found honest and good > > people in Hindus as well as in Muslims. Similarly rascals can be seen > > in both the societies. No particular society has a monopoly of > > goodness. However, it is observed that Hindus even if they are rascals > > in individual life, when they come together in a group, they always > > think of good things. On the other hand when two Muslims come > > together, they propose and approve of things which they themselves in > > their individual capacity would not even think of. They start thinking > > in an altogether different way. This is an everyday experience. > > Vinobaji admitted that there was truth in this observation but had no > > reasons to explain it.- > > > > [ Upadhyaya, D.D. 1965. integral Humanism. Individual versus Society. > > url- http://www.bjp.org/content/view/444/396/ ] > > > > Such was the clarity of TRUTH that Vinobaji did not even think about > > reasons for explaining it. > > > > Javed, considering the above thoughts, I sincerely feel you must > > reconsider your comments. Rajen is absolutely correct in my opinion. > > RSS does not hate Muslims or Christians. People associated with the > > RSS merely think that Musilms are traitors, Muslims are communal, > > Muslims are divisive as a community. But of course that does not mean, > > they HATE Muslims. Hate, I think, is a particularly strong word to > > define a relationship you see. For the time being, I think, I would > > rather go by Karan Johar's insightful words, 'kuch rishtyon ka naam > > nahi hota, woh bas hoteain hain' > > > > Warm regards > > > > Taha > > > -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 16:58:47 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 16:58:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: References: <4eab87870908110058g6cdc57fco9208399f1ecf6192@mail.gmail.com> <232101.51937.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908112025t4d5ca542if7d47bdd3920529e@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908120225p49fa0b11n32fe7d66fafd4213@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908120240x294eec32k214eda0886bda908@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908120428x65a509b5wd928ff2a20515801@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, those who talk, only talk, that is the big issue of the society, then the typical blame game, blaming all except self as if the person is directly from above, holier than thou all, not product of human passion.? Regards, Rajen. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 3:16 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Yes, but it need not be chaotic. First, a debate needs to take place among > intellectuals concerned on the subject itself, followed by the upper class. > At the same time, simultaneously, it needs to be taken at the grass root > level, among the people, who are then told about the different points of > view. The merits and demerits of each view must be made heard, which is > quite possible through the gram sabha. At the same time, what must be > looked > at is that no infringement of the deserved freedoms of individuals of any > section or group takes place, which is unjust. > > And say after a proper debate for about a year or two, let us go for a > referendum. After all, that is very little time compared to the time taken > for the Right To Information and the NREGA to get passed after so many > struggles (of which most of us would have heard little or nothing about). > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 17:00:16 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:00:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908120428x65a509b5wd928ff2a20515801@mail.gmail.com> References: <4eab87870908110058g6cdc57fco9208399f1ecf6192@mail.gmail.com> <232101.51937.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908112025t4d5ca542if7d47bdd3920529e@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908120225p49fa0b11n32fe7d66fafd4213@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908120240x294eec32k214eda0886bda908@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908120428x65a509b5wd928ff2a20515801@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: What about yourself? From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 17:11:19 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:11:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908100251m61055704t1d54be26379d0bd8@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908100331n1c28c00ehd849fbf88e866741@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908120441h71e24400p80e27b3c08e86af0@mail.gmail.com> Dear Javed, propaganda by few for their livelihood is not new to society, but the individuals in society can feel the difference of the words and actions. In any organisation, when volunteers are many, some may be deviant, some compliant, that is the reason, society always recognizes that terrorist apprehended is muslim by name, but muslims are not terrorists.Like any other deviants some on the fringes may feel that they have to retaliate the violence, but what individuals in society fail to understand is violence only breeds more of it. There are enough propaganda and speeches that go on in society, after nammaaz I also had to bear the hate speech on the loudspeakers regularly but that does not mean that mulsims are preaching hatred, only some mullas do it for their collecton to soar.! And there are new type of evangelists who are "chrstian brahmins" who preach "vedas" for the gullible, with foreign funds,as the new bible of Veda.! Regards, Rajen. On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 7:07 PM, Javed wrote: > Dear Rajen > You say that "RSS does not hate Muslims or Christians", but you seem > to be ignoring all the hate-propaganda literature that is produced by > RSS and its allies, and the fact that RSS shakhas in small towns > brainwash little children against Muslims. Have you seen these 2 > documentary films called "Boys in the Branch" and "Men in the Trees" > (directed by Lalit Vachani) that explore exactly how the RSS > infiltrates the minds of youngsters. Do watch them if you can. > Working for the nation is fine, but at whose cost? > > J > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Rajendra Bhat > Uppinangadi wrote: > > Rakesh jee, > > you have your intellect to analyse and judge, you are free citizen of > > India, but your sweeping judgement of RSS is absolutely wrong, and you > are > > entitled to your views, but alteast have the patience to see the working > of > > RSS before you start quoting from the articles of regular baiters like > > Ashish Nandy and the tribe of pseudo -seculars, let me re-assert, RSS > does > > not hate muslims or christians, RSS men and women are volantary men and > > women who work for the nation , that too with the hope that the wall in > the > > partition of 1947 will be brought down, all live with harmony and peace > > irrespective of their faith, no faith followers dominating the "majority" > or > > "minority" on the basis of faith, converting from faiths to garner votes > > with vote banks. > > Muslims demanded partition and got it, but worked and struggled with all > > against slavery and the British rule, but the land mass was not loot > after > > robbery to be distributed after freedom. Only 23 percent went to the > > partitioned land, rest assured the leaders and the nation that they will > be > > living harmoniously with their hindu brothers, but we have seen the > deviant > > in them, and the silent majority of muslims tolerating such deviants with > > NGOs. > > As to the deviants of the lot, they are emboldened by the fact that they > > though, in very small quantum, numerically, have supporters in so > > called pseudo seculars who have love of freedom to fight for any faith as > > legal., but not hindu, because then it is communal, not secular.! > > Regards, > > Rajen. > > > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Rakesh Iyer > wrote: > >> > >> Dear Rajen jee > >> > >> While it certainly is a questionable practice not to declassify the > >> documents of intelligence of about more than 30 years ago, you seem to > make > >> a complete mockery of the investigations in the Malegaon case, as if > Hindus > >> can not be party to any terror blasts within the country, more so those > who > >> believe in the 'Hindutva' ideology. > >> > >> This is a wrong value-based position and I strongly disagree with it. > One > >> must not forget that the Sangh Parivar is such is based on the > ideological > >> position of disregarding the rights of the minorities to a life of > dignity, > >> and this is certainly a shame when compared with the ideals on which the > >> Indian Constitution was and is still based. (Unless of course you > believe > >> that the Constitution itself is a shame to begin with). > >> > >> Any matter must be thoroughly investigated and only after proper > >> investigations should we derive conclusions from it. Whether it be > Malegaon > >> or Mumbai blasts, this should be the way to go. Also, if matters > relating to > >> the case are present in the public domain, they should be presented to > the > >> public from the point of view of both sides (the accuser and the > accused). > >> And specifically, if people have doubts regarding the direction or > certain > >> matters within the case, these can and should be raised in the media and > >> elsewhere for public discussion. > >> > >> The shameful part is that in India, when someone is claimed to be a > >> terrorist, he/she is taken to be one irrespective of whether the final > >> investigations indeed state the same or not. The basic notion of > 'innocent > >> until proven guilty' is reversed to be stated as 'guilty even if termed > >> innocent by courts' in such cases. Whether it be Geelani or Sadhvi > Pragya > >> Thakur, that has happened. I have not seen the concerned articles as > >> mentioned by Mr. Puniyani, but I believe that unless one has evidence to > >> prove the judgement as wrong, or valid questions regarding the basis on > >> which the judgement was made, one should not make atrocious allegations > of > >> this kind. > >> > >> Therefore, on the same grounds as I feel that Puniyani jee's side may be > >> wrong, I equally feel that your side can also be wrong. > >> > >> Regards > >> > >> Rakesh > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Rajen. > > > > > -- Rajen. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 17:21:39 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:21:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 12 Message-ID: Outlook magazine, The Rice Diaries PSUs are being made the scapegoats, but the rice scam went beyond their ambit Saikat Datta PRINT SHARE [image: Click to Share] COMMENTS Also In This Story “Exports Can’t Be At The Cost Of Internal Food Security” The father of Green Revolution says export of foodgrains can take place only after securing food for everyone “Food Aid And Commerce Don’t Go Together” NDA convenor points out serious lapses in commerce minister Anand Sharma’s statement on the rice scam in Lok Sabha The Government Position - The exports were all planned commercial transactions - The African countries had not requested India for rice as aid or grant - PSUs have infringed upon certain conditions in the directorate-general of foreign trade notifications - Inquiries will be held *** The Reality - Export exemption only for food aid programmes. If a commercial transaction, why no tenders? - Letters from Comoros, Sierra Leone, Djibouti state rice is needed for impending food crisis - PSUs helpless because of letters naming private companies and addressed to cabinet ministers; EGoM cleared exports - Government rejected the Opposition demand for a joint parliamentary probe *** The Outlook Effect “This is a massive scam and the commerce minister has tried to sidetrack the real issues.” *Gopinath Munde, BJP leader and MP* “A joint parliamentary probe is needed. We must know how private companies like Amira Foods came in.” *Basudeb Acharia, CPI(M) MP* “It is a big scam which impinges on India’s food security. The Opposition won’t let it die down.” *Bhartruhari Mahtab, Lok Sabha BJD MP* “We need to probe how two or three companies came in without a tender and got preferential treatment.” *Shailendra Kumar, Samajwadi Party MP* *** *“It has been noticed that in some cases PSUs have infringed (upon) certain conditions contained in the DGFT (directorate-general of foreign trade) notifications for the export of non-basmati rice. This matter is being looked into. Inquiries will be held; responsibility will be fixed and remedial action shall be taken.”* —Union minister for commerce Anand Sharma in his statement on the rice scam in the Lok Sabha on July 30, 2009 Ever since *Outlook* exposedthe scandalous export of non-basmati rice to 22 “needy” African nations between January 2008 and May 2009, the rot seems to be only getting deeper. For one, not only did this trade take place at a time when there was a ban on export of the grain but, in what was supposed to be a government-to-government aid programme, three private players were hand-picked, contravening all norms. The commerce ministry too played its part by getting the export of 10 lakh metric tonnes (MT) cleared in double quick time. The *Outlook* investigation had shown how the entire exercise was intended just to help a private cartel profit from the then high international price of rice. Why else would state-owned trading companies like the STC and MMTC be forced to subcontract exports to chosen private players? Now further proof of this nexus has emerged. *Then Union commerce minister Kamal Nath was in the know:* In his Lok Sabha statement on the rice scam, Union commerce minister Anand Sharma hinted at state trading companies like STC and MMTC having infringed upon “certain DGFT guidelines”. But were the PSUs alone responsible or did the then commerce minister Kamal Nath know about what was happening under his nose? A key part of the EGoM on rice exports, Kamal Nath would have known about all deals. Documents accessed by *Outlook* show that Kamal Nath knew about all the five deals that were eventually signed and delivered in the 16-month period. In fact, he should have known since he was a key member of the three-man Empowered Group of Ministers (EGoM) set up by the government to look into the export of non-basmati rice. And it was then and current DGFT, R.S. Gujral, who functions under the commerce ministry, who notified each decision of the EGoM specifying how much rice could be exported by a PSU to a specific African country. In fact, a letter from the West African nation of Sierra Leone(dated March 31, 2009) was addressed directly to Kamal Nath seeking 30,000 MT non-basmati rice (valued at Rs 110 crore) due to a food crisis in that country. The letter clearly recommends the Delhi-based Amira Foods as the company which should be exempted from the then existing ban on exports for this purpose. To quote: “We (Sierra Leone) further request that the concession to export/ship be given to M/s Amira Foods (I) Ltd whom we have nominated as the shippers of the rice concession to be granted to.” (Kamal Nath didn’t respond to a detailed questionnaire faxed to his office and residence seeking his comments.) This order became one in a series of concessions that Amira Foods bagged in exporting the banned non-basmati rice, including a consignment to the East African nation of Comoros in mid-2008. Here too the country was allotted 25,000 MT of rice to be exported under the food aid programme through MMTC. But as the deal unfolded, it revealed a manipulation that went far beyond MMTC. The fact is that while the PSU tried its best to resist the manipulations in the export deal from the top, it was pushed into a corner and forced to accommodate private players. *The Comoros Deal—The Twists and Turns:* In January 2008, the EGoM agreed to exempt a consignment of 25,000 MT of non-basmati rice to the Union of Comoros, a small African nation comprising of four principal islands just off the eastern coast of Africa. The DGFT issued a notice on January 24, 2008 (Notification no. 73 [RE-2007]/2004-2009), clearing the export along with that of 9,000 MT to Mauritius through MMTC. In February 2008, the PSU floated a limited tender for exporting rice to Mauritius and Comoros. While the export to Mauritius went through smoothly, the Comoros deal began to spin out of control. Interestingly, MMTC raked in profits in the Mauritius deal, buying the rice from the market for $368 per MT and selling it to Mauritius for $455 per MT. The profit margin: $87 per MT. “This was probably the highest profit that MMTC has ever made in a rice export deal in its entire history,” a senior commerce ministry official told *Outlook*. MMTC’s profit margin was written in hand on a typed document by Amira VP P. Guha! Meanwhile, in the Comoros deal, MMTC floated a similar limited tender. It got bids ranging between $468 and $475 per MT and in turn offered to sell to Comoros at $495 per MT. This offer was valid till March 10, 2008. In an April 15, 2008, fax, sent by the ministry of external affairs and cooperation, government of Comoros, to the Indian embassy in the Madagascar capital Antananarivo, the Comoros government pointed out that the price of $495 was too high. It also stated that it could not meet the deadline of March 10, 2008, because of paucity of funds and would highly appreciate “if the Indian government could positively consider lowering the proposed price (of $495)”. *A Unilateral Agreement:* But a month later, MMTC received an already signed agreement inked without its knowledge where Comoros had agreed to buy the 25,000 MT of rice (worth Rs 28 crore) through three private Indian companies at $640 per MT! The agreement, dated May 22, 2008 (MMTC/RICE/EXP/02/ 2008-09), appointed MMTC as the seller; Amira Foods Ltd, with its office in Sultanpur Estates, Shivnath Rai Harnarain Ltd and Emsons Ltd as the “shippers” and the Comorian trading agency ONICOR as the “buyer”. Strangely enough, the agreement had already been worked out and signed by the “shippers” and the “buyers”, minus the MMTC. This deal raises essentially two questions: - How could the price be decided and an agreement signed between private Indian companies and the Comoros government without the participation of MMTC, the PSU mandated by the EGoM and a DGFT notification to export? - Why did Comoros seek a reduction in the price of $495 per MT offered by MMTC and agreed to buy it at $640 per MT from private companies? *PSUs’ Profit Margin Fixed Unilaterally by Private Player:* Mysteriously, the Comoros agreement also stated unilaterally that MMTC’s profit margin would be only $10 per MT. Which meant that while the rice would be sold at a rate much higher than what MMTC had sold to Mauritius, its margin per MT would fall from a high of $87 per MT to $10. Strangely enough, MMTC’s profit margin was written into the typed document by hand and signed by a ‘P. Guha’. The ‘P. Guha’ turns out to be Protik Guha, vice president, Amira Foods! (*Outlook* contacted Guha on phone but he said he was in a meeting and would get back, but didn’t). On dissenting, MMTC was told the deal was at the behest of the Comoran prez and Indian PM. Pushed into a corner, MMTC shot off several letters to the MEA in June 2008 pointing out how Comoros had turned down the much lower price it had quoted and opted instead for a much higher rate, and how its profit margin too had been pre-decided at $10 per MT. In response, two letters arrived simultaneously at the MMTC headquarters. The first was a two-page letter dated June 10, 2008 (113/CG/ND/08), from the consul-general of Comoros in India, K.L. Ganju, asking the PSU to process the agreement. “On inquiry from the supplier (read Amira Foods etc), it has been informed that the contract papers are pending with MMTC.” Ganju wanted them processed immediately. (Despite repeated efforts, Ganju remained unavailable for comment). A similar letter to MMTC came from Narinder Chauhan, joint secretary (East and South Africa division), on the same day. The note (No. 1689/JS [E&SA]/08) pointed out that this export deal had been struck “with the direct intervention of the President of Comoros and the Prime Minister of India” and so it had to be processed immediately. When MMTC wrote back to the MEA (Letter No. MMTC/AGRO/RICE/EXP/ COMOROS/08/02), pointing out details of its original offer and the entry of private players, it received a reply from K.N. Ramachandran, an under-secretary in the MEA. In this letter dated June 16, 2008 (No. IV/I0L/4/2008), it was pointed out that since the contract had already been signed between the government of Comoros and the private Indian companies to supply rice at $640 per MT, “MEA had no further comments to offer.” Instead it requested that “MMTC may please facilitate export of the consignment of rice to Comoros”. With no choice in the matter, the PSU complied. *The Need for a Joint Parliamentary Probe* Anand Sharma promised Parliament that there would be an internal inquiry. But Opposition parties as well as the MPs who had filed a calling attention motion on the rice scam are not satisfied. When *Outlook* spoke to BJP leader Gopinath Munde, CPI(M) MP Basudeb Acharia, BJD MP Bhartruhari Mahtab and Samajwadi Party MP Shailendra Kumar, they all said that a scam of this nature which impinged on the nation’s food security called for a joint parliamentary probe which they had demanded. But the government rejected this outright, leading to the Opposition staging a walkout. Such a probe could well release a can of worms; an internal inquiry, on the other hand, would be more convenient. It can be easily manipulated and the blame put on PSUs. The big sharks, meanwhile, can continue to roam the ocean of corruption. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 17:20:55 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:20:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] China should break up India: Chinese strategist In-Reply-To: References: <187420.86596.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908110309n4dc26b36p7494c5b3b975120d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908120450x2bb6750brc74ceab6b9072cd4@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, it is again, public postures as China knows well that it can make some inroads if nation is divided, but why blame China only, US of America did it successfully with USS of Russia.? And is on that path of breaking islamic states , first by dividing the followers of faith as shias and sunnis, kurdhish and others, to put their puppet on seat of power, India is already having american puppet as PM.! Regards, Rajen. On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 5:43 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear all > > Chinese strategists, by publishing such articles, constantly prove that > they > are a part of the group which comprises the biggest fools of the world. > > The reason why India exists as one is not so much the appeasement or the > Hindu religion factor, but the fact that India is a democracy. Considering > that India has the third largest Muslim population in the world, and has > close to 15% of minority population in the country, if people of these > religions felt that they are threatened in India, they would have either > left the country (in the case of Muslims, during Partition) or would have > participated in clandestine activities to destroy the country totally ( > like > more blasts or more riots or attacks). > > Instead, even in riots, it's Muslims who have suffered, and yet there have > not been that many blasts or that frequent ones as one would have thought > if > the above mentioned were the case. By and large, Muslims do believe in the > sense of fairness and justice in Indian democracy, and they realize that > the > unfairness in the system exists despite religious differences, that is, it > is directed for all rather than people of particular religions. > > The same is true for Christians and other minorities as well. > > The problem is with China to a fair degree (India also creates problems but > not of the kind I am expressing now). If China would have been a democratic > nation, so many people (approximately one-sixth of population of the world) > would not have been living with denial of political and social freedoms. > Chinese state has to constantly keep their people under state of oppression > and make-shift state-controlled news media to ensure that people don't > revolt against the state. At least the Indian media is able to counter the > govts. on various issues, and these govts have been of different political > inclinations and arrangements (coalition, single party based, BJP led, Cong > led, Left led and so on). Whereas for China, they are in a double > disadvantage position in a conflict with India, because unlike India where > the central govt has a democratic standing at least, the Chinese govt does > not have it, and there can be situations of managing internal revolt and > external attack at the same time, something that is very difficult in > India. > > > Chinese state feels that India is jealous of them for their growth. I feel > that we should not be jealous but should be learning from the good and bad > of their policies. China has fooled itself into believing that they will be > able to dominate the world on the basis of their military power. The fact > is > that China is considered strong because of its economic power (and somewhat > because of its relevance in negotiations with North Korea for the US). > > What they don't realize is that not only do people have the ability to self > distruct, but also that people would never succumb to oppression on a > constant basis. The happenings in Xinjiang province a few months ago, as > well as those in Tibet, bear testimony to that. > > But then, the only answer China has to that is force. Probably instead of > concentrating on breaking up India (which is a laughable claim from them > with the Indian state being quite powerful and democracy functioning very > well), they should concentrate on bringing democracy in China which can > help > in development of all. Infact, to our credit, the Indian democracy > succeeded > in bringing an NREGA in India, much before China could bring the 'New Deal' > for reconstruction in China of infrastructure which could help in bringing > employment for the poor (and yet, employment is not a right there). > > And if still the priorities of Chinese state are Tawang and breaking up > India, they can continue living in a fool's world, and my sympathies are > with ordinary Chinese citizens. > > If I may say so, it's much easier to break up China because what you have > to > do is to create a sense of conflict between minorities and majority (Han > Chinese), from the nationalist point of view, and their authorities won't > be > able to control it (no democracy there, so there will be no settlement and > listening to minorities as well). Whereas in India, that would not be the > case. > > And it's the Right in India, rather than the Left which threatens to > destroy > this arrangement, because they want subjugation of the minorities rather > than trying to become a right-of-centre party. And by Right, you all would > probably understand whom I am referring to. > > Regards > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Aug 12 17:29:16 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:59:16 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Fighting the surveillance state Message-ID: <65be9bf40908120459t6529ef70m9c62932ba18f2ceb@mail.gmail.com> Dear All Why does it appears that India is heading in the same direction when it comes to infatuation of a government with surveillance technologies is concerned? The technology made by stuffing bits of silicon in molded plastic, which goes by the popular name of 'smart' ID cards, could serve more multiple purposes to the government of India, than it could, to the people of India. Because it is the government alone which could use this information pertaining to a billion people any-which-way it wants. The data gathered in the course of a national roll out for MNIC or the multiple purpose national identity card could be put to a variety of uses by the government, while the citizen will have perhaps little or no access to information which is her own. The story below indicates that how in UK how the government is using surveillance technologies for social control, just as the GOI is in the process of finalizing a huge, massive technology in the name of ID cards, which in all probability could be used for social control and wanton surveillance on the people of India. So maybe the article below is indicative of the shape of public debate in decades of come. Excerpt- -The argument in favour of such intrusion is always that those who have nothing to fear have nothing to hide, but that was also the argument that used to be made by the KGB in the Soviet Union to justify the recording of internal movements at every hour of the day and night. Free citizens should not have to justify themselves to their state, for it is the state that should serve the citizen. Privacy is a right in any civilised society.- Fortunately for the GOI there are no laws in India, which particularly pertains to privacy of private individuals. So I guess the Governments think it is kind of okay. I think that when in UK where privacy laws are so stringent, the Government does not seem to be soo bothered while snooping around in the name of -national security- and -social control- one wonders whether for a country like India, even if, we had the most toughest laws, would it have mattered? Warm regards Taha http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2009/aug/11/surveillance-state-liberal-democrats Fighting the surveillance state State-sanctioned spying is out of control. Labour and the Tories support it – only the Liberal Democrats stand against it The extent of snooping in modern Britain is shocking. The scale of the state's prying was buried in the back of the annual report (pdf) from the interception of communications commissioner, Sir Paul Kennedy, one of a flurry of reports released by the government just before MPs broke for the summer recess. The report revealed that 504,073 requests for communication data were made by public bodies last year – a staggering 1,381 a day – one request for every minute of last year. Most of these requests were made by the police and security services. Many will be justified and proportionate. The sheer number of requests, however, is shocking. When requests first hit the half million mark in 2007, it was suggested that this was just part of the bedding-down process. In fact, surveillance seems to have settled at this level, 44% higher than the more modest numbers of 2006. Surveillance has soared even though the assessment of the terrorist threat has eased. State-sanctioned spying on one in every 78 adults every year cannot be a proportionate response to our problems. Neither the Home Office nor the commissioner have presented figures showing how useful such interceptions were in securing convictions, but we know that wholesale local authority use of physical snooping powers is often ineffective as well as intrusive. Only 9% of such surveillance helps with convictions. The argument in favour of such intrusion is always that those who have nothing to fear have nothing to hide, but that was also the argument that used to be made by the KGB in the Soviet Union to justify the recording of internal movements at every hour of the day and night. Free citizens should not have to justify themselves to their state, for it is the state that should serve the citizen. Privacy is a right in any civilised society. We have sleepwalked into a surveillance state without serious debate and without adequate safeguards. The government's infatuation with social control shows that it has misunderstood the lessons of George Orwell's 1984, which was a warning, and not a blueprint. We are not yet living under the Stasi, but we are living in a country whose proud liberal history is under threat. The requests for communications data were made under the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000. These "Ripa" powers allowed the public bodies granted them the ability to authorise themselves to access "communications data", details of when you sent or received an email or text or made a phone call, and to whom. The government promised when introducing them that these substantial powers would only be used to tackle terrorism and other serious crime. In reality, however, Ripa powers of physical surveillance have been used to spy on ordinary people for trivial offences, such as dog-fouling, over-filling their bins or lying about their children's school catchment area. It is the nature of bureaucratic creep: powers for one purpose prove handy for another. We can assume the same has happened with intercept. Originally, only nine organisations were authorised under Ripa powers, such as the police and the security services but now over 800 are, including all councils. No one disputes that communications data and intercept evidence can be of immense value to the police and security services. It would be of even more value in prosecuting organised crime and violent offences if intercept evidence were allowed in court, as it is in the US and Australia. Intercept should be devastating for serious crime, and not commonplace for ordinary investigations. Yet many of the powers introduced under Labour in the name of security lack the safeguards that would prevent them being abused. The Liberal Democrats want better checks and balances. Leaving the power of issuing warrants for intercept communications with the home secretary, who is also in charge of the police, is like asking the fox to guard the henhouse. We must review the power to issue these warrants, restricting their use to serious crime or introducing extra checks by independent magistrates. The Conservatives, unbelievably, want to relax the rules governing the use of these powers for the police and the security services. The Labour-Tory consensus lives. Only the Liberal Democrats now stand four square against the surveillance state. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 17:35:26 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:35:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A follow up...............silence won't count anymore! In-Reply-To: <341380d00908100821w1dea0c12m818ce2230bc39837@mail.gmail.com> References: <9d0d777b0908100033hdd61dbbo8dfaa544e56e51f4@mail.gmail.com> <9d0d777b0908100034g2b5ad1a1h51af4379ceb1d3e8@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908100232n7dd896dch393a21e51fc9788c@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908100821w1dea0c12m818ce2230bc39837@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908120505i6fb62c82u571f699d83f925b4@mail.gmail.com> Dear Anupam, a big YES, and the initiative is for all of us to see that good governance in true spirit of the word is present in society.We spend our time in blaming the system of which we are good, no discrimination whatsoever can be there, as the elected legislators, babus and the judiciary are from sectarian agendas and these sectarian actions flare up, then those affected cry foul. When rule of laws is without fear or favour, the deviant who sheltors a terror prone insurgent, is dealt by legal speedy mode, no with encounters.Today if a person marries thrice, he becomes spokesperson for rights of minorities but truely he converts to faith to hide his illegal bigamy.! Please read the good article in Times of India of knotted kind.! Regards, Rajen. PS: Rakesh jee, pl would you post the link of the article from Times of India about the true faith, good words, and knotted ., from TOI.? On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 8:51 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Rajen > > Is it possible to resolve conflicts through something as elusive called > governance? > > - anupam > > On 8/10/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi > wrote: > > > > Dear all, extremely sad, but true state of affairs at Manipur, as > > governance has gone for a toss, the administration is in the hand of > > unlawful persons with and without uniforms, sad commentary of how bad > > governance or lack of it affects the "identity" of the citizen and how > lack > > of concern of the central governance affects the state and federation of > > India.! > > > > Regards, > > > > Rajen. > > > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Rajkamal Goswami < > > rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com > > > wrote: > > > > > *CURRENT AFFAIRS* *cover story* > > > > > > *Life In A Shadow Land* > > > > > > *As Manipur comes to a boil in the aftermath of a fake encounter, > **SHOMA > > > CHAUDHURY** maps the fractured truths and complex wars raging in the > > state. > > > Photographs by **SHAILENDRA PANDEY* > > > > > > ON JULY 23, 2009, on an ordinary day in Imphal, six people were going > > about > > > their morning chores in a crowded market on BT Road. P Lukhoi Singh, a > > > rider > > > working with the Assam Rifles, had just delivered a packet to the SP > > (CID) > > > and had stopped to chat with a friend. Gimamgal, a peon, was cycling to > > > work. Ningthonjam Keshorani, mother of three, was selling fruit. W Gita > > > Rani > > > had just visited her doctor and was trying to catch an autorickshaw. > > Rabina > > > Devi, five months pregnant, was holding her 2-year-old son Russel’s > hand > > > and > > > buying a banana before she met up with her husband, working at a mobile > > > shop. And 22-year-old Chongkham Sanjit, a former insurgent, was on his > > way > > > to buy medicine for a sick uncle in hospital. > > > [image: image]*Counter kills* Sanjit, killed in cold blood; Rabina Devi > > > lies > > > next to him, shot by accident > > > > > > *View slideshow< > > > > http://www.tehelka.com/story_main42.asp?filename=Ne150809coverstory.asp# > > > > > > *** > > > > > > Suddenly, a young man ran from a police frisking. Shots rang out. > Lukhoi > > > Singh heard a sound like “automatic firing” and tried to duck beneath > his > > > motorbike but was badly hit. He saw two cops walking into the crowd, > > > firing. > > > He told them he was hurt but they did not stop. Gimamgal heard a burst > of > > > sound and kept cycling. He didn’t realise he had been hit till he saw > > blood > > > pouring down his body. His left arm was shattered. N Keshorani heard > the > > > gunfire and started to push her fruit cart away but buckled suddenly. > She > > > had been shot in the calf. Gita Rani just heard a sound. She didn’t > > realise > > > she had been hit till she saw blood staining her chest. Rabina Devi > just > > > dropped dead. A bullet went straight through her forehead and out of > her > > > neck. Her little son saw his mother lying in a pool of blood and began > to > > > scream. > > > > > > Sanjit was standing at a PCO when within minutes he was surrounded by > > > commandos. There were four civilians injured and one dead on the road: > > the > > > cops needed an alibi. On that busy road, in the middle of a crowded > > market, > > > in full view of Manipur’s citizens, Sanjit was dragged into a pharmacy > > next > > > door and shot point blank. His body was then dragged out by the > commandos > > > and tossed into a truck along with Rabina Devi. > > > > > > All of this passed for a routine day in Manipur. The area was not > > cordoned > > > off, no forensics were called in. The State Assembly was in session > when > > > the > > > incident happened. By late afternoon, Chief Minister Ibobi Singh had > > tabled > > > a statement saying Sanjit, a member of PLA, a proscribed militant > outfit, > > > had shot five civilians while trying to escape a police frisking but > > > Manipur’s brave commandos had killed him in an encounter. A 9mm Mauser > > was > > > found on him. The CM also said there was no way to stem the menace of > > > insurgents except to “eliminate” them (a statement he later denied). > The > > > Opposition swallowed the story without question. Everyone went back to > > > business. > > > > > > Manipur is a dark shadow land. Nothing there is what it seems. Fear and > > > fatigue have become its universal character traits. It is estimated > that > > > about 300 people have been killed in 2009 alone between insurgents and > > > state > > > forces. But nobody dares to raise any questions. People suspect things, > > but > > > in the absence of proof, they look away. Each time someone dies, the > > > neighbourhood constitutes a Joint Action Committee (JAC). Token > protests > > > are > > > made, sometimes followed by token compensations, and everyone tries to > > live > > > on. The same would have happened this time, except an anonymous > > > photographer > > > captured the damning extra-judicial killing of Sanjit on camera. > > Terrified > > > of publishing the pictures in local papers, the photographer contacted > > > TEHELKA. > > > > > > Our story – *Murder in Plain Sight *– published last week was like a > > > pressure cooker burst. As the story traveled, protests erupted across > the > > > state. People everywhere poured into the streets, demanding a judicial > > > enquiry and the chief minister’s resignation. Young boys fought off > > > commandos with slingshots and marbles. Women stretched their *phaneks* > > > across > > > roads as deterrents (Manipuri men are traditionally forbidden to touch > > > women’s clothes drying on a clothesline) and openly courted arrested. > As > > L > > > Gyaneshwari, a women protestor recovering in hospital, says, “TEHELKA > > > opened > > > the gates to the tears blocked within us. We have always known the > truth > > > about these killings but we never had any evidence and had lost the > > > strength > > > to speak. Now, we’ve found courage again. If a vegetable vendor had not > > > grabbed Rabina Devi’s bag and kept it with her, the commandos would > have > > > put > > > a 9mm in it and passed her off as a militant as well.” “TEHELKA has > woken > > > up > > > Manipur,” says Arun Irengbam, editor of the news daily, *Ireipak.* The > > > sentiment runs strong. “We cannot thank TEHELKA enough for bringing the > > > truth to light,” says Dayanada Chingtham, co-ordinator of the Apunba > Lup, > > > an > > > apex body of activist groups. “We wish you had done this story two > years > > > earlier, our police have become too brazen,” says a man, working — > > > ironically — in the office of Joy Kumar, the DGP of Police and the man, > > in > > > a > > > sense, at the heart of the storm. > > > > > > True to script, as the valley erupted in unarmed protest, the State > > > responded with typical ham-handedness. Commandos were deployed > everywhere > > > and protestors were beaten back with water cannons, tear gas and smoke > > > bombs. Curfew was imposed. In a telling detail, Rabina Devi’s > > grandmother, > > > MRK Rajesana, was among a group of elderly women marching towards the > > > Governor’s house when they were stopped by commandos. “Arrest us”, they > > > taunted. Instead, the cops began to hurl smoke bombs at them. Some of > the > > > old women ran into a tiny chicken shop for shelter and pulled the > shutter > > > down. A cop found a small chink in the shutter and threw three smoke > > bombs > > > in. “Die, you hags”, he shouted. Imagine the outrage of the > grandmother: > > a > > > pregnant granddaughter shot dead, buying a banana, and now the > oppressive > > > suffocations of a vengeful State. “Manipur’s women fought the British > in > > > 1904 and 1939. We fought the Indian army in 2004 for Manorama Devi. It > is > > > time for another *nupi lal* (women’s war). I am inviting our women to > > come > > > forward for another war,” says she. > > > > > > *‘The problem is as much with Delhi as with Imphal. The situation in > > > Manipur > > > can get much worse than Jammu and Kashmir but the Centre just does not > > want > > > to recognise it’* > > > > > > *Ved Marwah,* former governor of Manipur > > > > > > The central hospital in Manipur is full of such brewing stories. KH > > Lokhen > > > Singh, an autorickshaw driver, was walking down the road, not even part > > of > > > a > > > protest, when a passing commando hurled a smoke bomb at him. As the > bomb > > > exploded, Lokhen’s face was scalded. He lies in a hospital room now, > face > > > burnt, blinded. His tiny two-yearold daughter Sangeeta — a baby with an > > > angelic face — lies sleeping on the floor on a mat beside him. > > > > > > Finally, on August 5, 2009, a full week after the story first broke, > > Chief > > > Minister Ibobi Singh called a press conference, admitted he had been > > > misguided into making a false statement about the “unfortunate > incident”, > > > and promised a judicial enquiry. Six commandos, including a > > sub-inspector, > > > were suspended. Though protests continued to rage across the state even > > > after his announcement, for the moment, the immediate crisis seems to > > have > > > been defused. > > > > > > THE FAKE encounter of July 23, however, tells a darker story about > > Manipur. > > > It lays bare the pent up triumvirate of emotions that have come to > > dominate > > > the psyche of people here: extreme fear, extreme distrust and extreme > > > fatigue. Speak to anyone in the state — the sweetshop owner at the > > airport, > > > the taxi driver, historians, housewives, journalists, activists, > vendors, > > > doctors, mechanics — and despair curdles just beneath. Everybody has > > > stories > > > to tell. Stories of extortion. Kidnapping. Threats. Demand notes. > > > Corruption. And extra-judicial killing. > > > > > > Far away from the national gaze, in fact, this tiny emerald valley > > > surrounded by cloud-kissed emerald hills is on the verge of internal > > > collapse. Much of this contemporary mess has historical roots. Manipur > > has > > > never entirely been a willing participant of the Indian Union. Its > > dominant > > > community — the Meiteis — claim a proud and unbroken history that goes > > back > > > 2,000 years. In 1947, when the British left, the Manipur Kingdom > > > established > > > itself as a constitutional monarchy and held elections to its own > > > parliament. Two years later, in 1949, the Maharaja of Manipur agreed to > > (or > > > was forced to, claim the Meiteis) merge with India. First as an > inferior > > > C-State, then in 1963 as an Union Territory, and finally in 1972 as a > > State > > > of India. > > > > > > *‘Guns will not stop the insurgency. Just stop the cycle of killing and > > > peace will come. We can earn money, we can manage our family, but “the > > Act” > > > is beyond bearing’* > > > > > > *L Mem Choubi,* Apunba Lup > > > > > > Almost immediately, in 1964, the first underground movement for > > > independence > > > was born as the United National Liberation Front (UNLF). Other > insurgent > > > outfits with varying versions of nationalism followed in the 1970s: the > > > PLA, > > > the PREPAK, the KCP, the KYKL. > > > > > > But these were not all. Manipur is made up of a rainbow community. > Fifty > > > seven percent of its people are the Vaishnavite Hindu Meiteis, who live > > > dominantly in the valley. In the surrounding hills live the Nagas, > Kukis > > > and > > > Mizo- Chin tribes. The Nagas and Kukis, which themselves have > sub-groups, > > > are mostly Christian. About seven percent of the state’s population is > > made > > > up of Muslims — Pangals — who also live in the valley in a district > > called > > > Thoubal. > > > > > > Historically, the Meiteis have always felt and behaved superior to the > > hill > > > tribes. Predictably then, each of these communities have sprouted their > > own > > > militant underground movements. The Naga movement, in fact, predates > the > > > UNLF to the 1950s. To simplify a long and complex history, what all of > > this > > > essentially means is that over the years, this tiny valley with a > > > population > > > of no more than 25 lakh people has sprouted almost 40 insurgent groups. > > > Some > > > of them are fighting the Indian State; many of them are fighting each > > > other. > > > Equally, as Central funds for development have poured into the valley, > > but > > > failed to climb the hills, the fights have become less over identity > and > > > more over money. With an eye on the pie, many of the big insurgent > groups > > > have splintered into innumerable small factions. As every Manipuri > > citizen > > > will tell you with disgust: “Every sub-ethnic group in Manipur has its > > own > > > militia, and every militia has its own extortion industry.” > > > > > > The stories of extortion in Manipur are epic. All well-heeled citizens > > are > > > routinely sent “demand notes” in the form of threat calls, kidnappings, > > > grenades or Chinese bombs hurled into shops and homes, or outright > > > killings. > > > Apart from these individual payouts, every government contract or > > > development fund has a fixed scaffold of cuts that go to the > underground > > – > > > or “UG” as they are collectively known. These fixed cuts have now > peaked > > at > > > 38 percent of every project. In early 2009, Dr Kishan, a officer of the > > > Manipur Civil Service, was shot for resisting extortion demands from a > > > development fund. As historian and former Apunba Lup leader, Lokendra > > > Arambam — an eloquent and disillusioned elder — puts it mildly, “There > > has > > > been a qualitative degeneration of the militants.” Things are so bleak > > that > > > the outfits that restrict themselves to “institutional extortion” are > now > > > seen as honourable or principled. > > > EVERY ETHNIC GROUP HAS ITS OWN MILITIA, EVERY MILITIA HAS ITS OWN > > EXTORTION > > > INDUSTRY > > > > > > The UG is everywhere in Manipur, permeating the skin of everyday life. > > Most > > > of them run parallel governments, complete with Finance-in-Charge, > > Auditor > > > General and Secretaries of military and cultural affairs. In several > > > heinous > > > incidents, as in the infamous Heirok village episode, the PREPAK group > — > > > fanatic revivalists who want the Meiteis to go back to their pre-Hindu > > past > > > — walked into a village celebrating a pre-Diwali ceremony and shot a > boy > > > and > > > girl in cold blood as a lesson for the village. > > > > > > But the trouble is, the UG is only one facet of the fear that stalks > > > Manipur. The more damning facet — because you are groomed to expect > > better > > > from it — is the State itself. > > > > > > LIKE CHAUVINISTIC nation States everywhere in the world, from the very > > > start, India has responded to the riddles of identity in the North-East > > > with > > > brute force rather than patient dialogue. In 1958, it responded to the > > Naga > > > movement with a draconian version of an old colonial law: The Armed > > Forces > > > Special Powers Act (AFSPA). This Act allows even junior officers of the > > > army > > > to arrest, torture or kill any citizen on mere suspicion, and to search > > and > > > destroy property without a warrant. It also stipulates that no army > > officer > > > or jawan can be punished without the sanction of the Central > government. > > > > > > With every passing year, different districts of Manipur were brought > > under > > > this Act. By 1980, all of Manipur had begun to live under its shadow. > It > > is > > > difficult to imagine the history of violence this Act has brought to > > > Manipur, and the “psychology of impunity” it has bred. Think of a > > conflict > > > zone — a place where death comes easy, where everyone is jumpy — and > > think > > > of young men enabled to do as they please, ungoverned by law, unmindful > > of > > > any punishment. > > > > > > *‘Our morality was so muddied and the fear of State and non-State > players > > > so > > > rampant, even civil society had taken a backseat. Tehelka has retrieved > a > > > bit of our humanity’* > > > > > > *Lokendra Arambam,* historian and dramatist > > > > > > In the 30 years that the Act has been valid in Manipur, hundreds of > young > > > men and women have disappeared, been tortured, raped or killed. Despite > > > dozens of human rights reports, no action was taken against the army. > In > > > 2004, the frustration pent up over decades spilled out like lava. A > young > > > woman, Manorama Devi, was dragged out of her house in the middle of the > > > night by jawans of the Assam Rifles and led away. Her body was found > the > > > next day, brutalised, raped. A spontaneous rage ran through Manipur. > > Amidst > > > protests across the state, a dozen elderly women stripped themselves > > stark > > > naked and demonstrated in front of the Assam Rifles headquarters > carrying > > > searing placards: “Indian Army Rape Us.” > > > > > > Their extreme despair had a tiny impact: The Jeevan Reddy Committee was > > set > > > up to review the Act. Its recommendations have still not been > > implemented, > > > but in a minor victory, the Act and the army were removed from the city > > > districts of Imphal. > > > > > > In the five years since, a new monster has been born on Manipur’s > already > > > ravaged landscape: the Manipur Police Commandos. With the army pulled > > back, > > > the state and Central governments took a conscious decision to groom a > > wing > > > of the state police to “stamp out” the insurgents. Unfortunately, that > > has > > > bred a fear in the people as crippling as their fear of the UG. As the > > > editor of*Ireipak,* Arun Irengbam, puts it, “The psychology of the > AFSPA > > is > > > like a contagious disease. The commandos move around with the same > sense > > of > > > impunity the army used to.” > > > > > > He is right. The official mindscape in Manipur is so militarised, it > > cannot > > > think of approaching any problem except through violent suppression. As > > in > > > every conflict zone, the arguments are complex. On the one hand are the > > > excesses of the insurgents: the extortions, the murders, the > intra-outfit > > > killings. As a top police officer puts it, “We can either let things > > drift, > > > or we can decide to take action. The truth is, we are hitting back more > > in > > > the last two years. Look at how the Punjab problem was sorted out. I > > accept > > > our boys might go too far sometimes, but you have to understand their > > > psychology too. They too can be shot at any time and they get jumpy. > Our > > > police stations are unviable. We have just 10-15 men, we need at least > 58 > > > per station. We need more men, we need more weapons.” > > > IT IS DIFFICULT TO IMAGINE THE‘PSYCHOLOGY OF IMPUNITY’ THE ACT HAS > > BROUGHT > > > TO MANIPUR > > > > > > But power is a heady pill and the atrocities of the army over 30 years > > have > > > found a twin face in the commandos. The two years since the police > > decided > > > to “hit back” coincide with a huge spurt in police atrocities. The > brazen > > > killing of Sanjit — in broad daylight, in a crowded market — is only a > > > symptom. The list of similar (but unproven) illegal executions in just > > 2008 > > > runs a mile long. Even if you suppose for a moment that they are all > > > militants, as the police might claim, Johnson Elangbam of the Apunba > Lup > > > has > > > a timely reminder. “If even Kasab can be put on trial for Mumbai 26/11, > > why > > > don’t Manipuri boys deserve the same treatment under law?” > > > > > > This absence of law — the absence of sanity — has created a corrosive > > > paranoia in Manipur. Drive into Imphal and you feel the fear > everywhere. > > > Jeep-loads of commandos drive around the city, heavily armed, shooting > > and > > > bullying at will. According to activists, in 2005, Lokhon Singh, a > > > commando, > > > was shot by Vikas, a PLA cadre, who in turn was killed. During Singh’s > > > funeral, the police stormed into Vikas’ house and arrested everyone in > > his > > > family. Then they allegedly gang-raped his girlfriend, Naobi. When > Naobi > > > told the court, “They have taken whatever they could from my body,” an > > > officer apparently threatened her in front of the magistrate. No action > > was > > > taken. > > > > > > In another sign of this paranoid fear bred by the State, after > TEHELKA’s > > > story on Sanjit’s fake encounter, journalists and activists in Imphal > > tried > > > hard to deter anyone from TEHELKA visiting Manipur. “We cannot assure > > your > > > safety,” they said. “The commandos are looking everywhere for the > > > photographer who gave you the pictures.” At the chief minister’s > > > conference, > > > local journalists who had helped us navigate the city asked us not to > > > recognise them for fear of reprisal. Sometimes, distrust can be more > > > damaging than empirical fear. > > > > > > *‘We can either let things drift, or we can decide to take action. The > > > truth > > > is, we are hitting back more in the last two years. That is how the > > Punjab > > > problem was sorted’* > > > > > > *Senior police officer,* requesting anonymity > > > > > > Ved Marwah, former super cop and former governor of Manipur affirms, > “No > > > police in the country has a worse record than the Manipur police. There > > is > > > an allegation that they shot one their own officers in a fake > encounter. > > > The > > > force is completely divided along ethnic lines and functions like the > > armed > > > militia of the ruling party. That place is like the Wild East.” > > > > > > There are immediate palpable reasons why the Manipur Police Commandos > > have > > > suddenly morphed into a new dragon face of the State. There is, most of > > > all, > > > the psychology of impunity. But since the decision to use the police > and > > > army as a combined force to “stamp out” the insurgents, there has also > > been > > > a sudden rapid expansion of the force. From a mere 300, the commando > unit > > > has shot up to a 1,000. Now, according to the police source, 1,600 new > > > commandos have been sanctioned. But where are these high caliber men to > > > come > > > from? > > > > > > Local journalists and activists speak of a massive recruitment scam. To > > > become a sub-inspector, you pay Rs 10-15 lakh with kickbacks running > all > > > the > > > way to the top politicians. To become a commando, you pay Rs 5 lakh. To > > > become a rifleman, you pay Rs 1-2 lakh. Sources within the force > confirm > > > all > > > this to be true. Unfortunately, logic demands you earn back what you > pay > > > out > > > and the number of extortion demands by the police has risen > > proportionately > > > to the expansion of the force. Taking in former militants into the > force, > > > as > > > well as giving gallantry awards to commandos who kill militants, have > all > > > contributed towards creating a force that is, at least partly, > motivated > > by > > > a combination of greed, testosterone, vendetta and unbridled power. > > > > > > “I admit 10-20 percent of our boys could be bad eggs,” says the police > > > officer. “We have to fine-tune their behaviour and make them more > humane. > > I > > > also admit the AFSPA needs to be amended, particularly section 4 and 6 > > > whose > > > wording now allows the boys leeway to torture or kill under any > > > circumstance. But, in general, the violence is unlikely to come down > > soon. > > > We need at least two years to clean up all this. We have to finish what > > has > > > been begun. And please don’t believe everything you read in the Manipur > > > press. First find out which UG outfit it is a mouthpiece for.” > > > > > > TRUTH IS, indeed, a difficult thing to ascertain in Manipur. The state > is > > > like an illusory pool, you step into it, and you are lost. Militants > and > > > politicians are friends. Commandos and extortionists are collaborators. > > > Friends are informers. Law enforcers are killers. Beneath the table, > > every > > > hand is interlinked. > > > TRUTH IS DIFFICULT TO ASCERTAIN IN MANIPUR. EVERY HAND IS INTERLINKED > > > BENEATH > > > > > > In early 2008, the police carried out a surprise raid in Babupara – the > > > elite colony where ministers and government officials live behind > several > > > layers of thickly grilled iron gates. According to a top police source, > > who > > > asked not to be named, twelve KYKL insurgents were found in a Congress > > > MLA’s > > > house. According to the same source, UNLF cadres were also found in a > MPP > > > member’s house. Others will tell you that politicians themselves inform > > the > > > UG about every new scheme that comes into the state – expecting tidy > > thank > > > you notes in return for their courtesy. > > > > > > What makes things worse is that, as the police officer alleged, the > media > > > in > > > Manipur is certainly part of the many mirages in the state. A complex > > > matrix > > > of allegiance and coercion governs them. On August 4, for instance, > > > shockingly, *The Sangai Express*carried a glowing account of the KCP > > (MC), > > > a > > > proscribed militant outfit’s third anniversary. The next day, the paper > > > carried an open threat from the outfit to Vodafone masquerading as a > > story. > > > “Tabunga Meiti, secretary in-charge of the revolutionary government of > > the > > > KCP,” the story went, “says that the bomb attack at the office of > > Vodafone > > > was the first and last warning for not conceding to the request for > some > > > monetary contribution to the outfit… To run an important organisation > > like > > > KCP which is fighting for the cause of a nation, money is required…” > > > > > > “The UG does try to use our papers as notice boards for their demand > > > notes,” > > > says Arun of *Ireipak* wryly. Issued a threat by the UG outfit a few > > years > > > ago for not toeing their ultra-revivalist line, he went underground for > > six > > > months, before he decided he’d rather die than live a life of a > fugitive. > > > But many others cave in. As Pradip Phanjaobam, editor, *Imphal Free > > > Press,* says, > > > “The government also tries to issue guidelines to us, but we argue with > > > them. Most of our real self-censorship is out of fear of the UG.” Or > out > > of > > > allegiance. For as another editor admits candidly, “I do have great > > empathy > > > for the UNLF.” > > > > > > *‘If even Kasab can be put on trial for Mumbai 26/11, why don’t > Manipuri > > > boys deserve the same treatment under law? Why should they be > > eliminated?’* > > > > > > *Johnson Elangbam,* rights activist > > > > > > SANJIT’S MOTHER, Inaotombi, sits stoically in white against a bamboo > pole > > > in > > > Khurai. She refuses to conduct the *shraddha* ceremony for her son till > a > > > judicial enquiry is instated and the CM resigns. Inaotombi has borne > more > > > than a mother should. Her son joined the proscribed PLA when he was 13 > > > though she pleaded with him not to. By the time he was 20, he had a > chest > > > injury and had come overground. Two years later, he was dead. She has > > three > > > other sons and must now contain their fear and anger. When the > neighbours > > > start rattling a stone on a metal pole — a cops want to kill. What made > a > > > 13-yearold boy join the PLA? Neither AFSPA nor commandos can answer > that > > > question. The rift at the heart of Manipur is an internal one – between > > its > > > various ethnic groups. Neither AFSPA nor commandos can heal that > either. > > > > > > Equally then, the intellectuals of Manipur could draw some lessons of > > their > > > own. How valid is the injured sense of alienation that has kept the > > > insurgencies buoyant over 30 years? “Is there space for us in the > Indian > > > imagination?” own communities. It needs inclusive growth with inclusive > > > governance.” > > > > > > More emotional sensitivity from the Centre might help, though. When the > > new > > > Minister for the North-East, BK Handique was asked to comment on the > > crisis > > > in Manipur, he said, “Law and order is not our concern.” It should be, > > > though, because the militarisation has the Centre’s sanction and as > > Pradip > > > says, “You lose a bit of yourself every time you put up a fight. And > you > > > lose more if nothing happens.” > > > > > > *WRITER’S EMAIL* > > > shoma at tehelka.com > > > > > > -- > > > Rajkamal Goswami > > > PhD Student in Conservation Science > > > Ashoka Trust for Research in Ecology and the Environment (ATREE) > > > Royal Enclave, Sri Ramapura, Jakkur P.O. > > > Bangalore 560 064 Karnataka, India. > > > Phone: 080-23635555, extn: 145 > > > Mobile: 09740362460 > > > Fax: 91 80 2353 0070 > > > > > > Web: www.atree.org > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Rajkamal Goswami > > > PhD Student in Conservation Science > > > Ashoka Trust for Research in Ecology and the Environment (ATREE) > > > Royal Enclave, Sri Ramapura, Jakkur P.O. > > > Bangalore 560 064 Karnataka, India. > > > Phone: 080-23635555, extn: 145 > > > Mobile: 09740362460 > > > Fax: 91 80 2353 0070 > > > > > > Web: www.atree.org > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Rajen. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 17:44:34 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:44:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] US Pressure on India Message-ID: Dear all Please do go through this article. It seems members of the UPA govt have decided that they deserve to be bought and enjoy, at the cost of the public of course. Regards Rakesh Article: Outlook Magazine Pallava Bagla/AP The Kalapakkam MAPS reactor building; A post-explosion view of the Chernobyl plant nuclear energy: compensation The Spill Bill Is Here The nuclear liability bill rests only on a clear bias towards foreign suppliers Pranay Sharma PRINT SHARE [image: Click to Share] COMMENTS Writing Out An Anticipatory Bail *What’s the proposed Civilian Nuclear Liability Bill about?* It seeks to cap the level of compensation (likely at $450 million) in the event of an accident and makes the operator, not the supplier, liable for it. *Are the operator and the supplier different?* Yes, the Nuclear Power Corporation of India will be the operator; the suppliers are big foreign companies like America’s GE and Westinghouse and France’s Areva. *Is the supplier liable to pay compensation?* No, it’s exclusively the operator’s liability, though it can enter into an agreement with the supplier to share the burden of compensation. *Why a cap on compensation?* Insurance companies don’t provide cover for unlimited liability. Compensation over and above the fixed amount will be the Indian government’s responsibility. *Why do critics feel the bill favours American companies?* Unlike the French and Russian firms, which are either fully or partly owned by the government, the US companies are all privately owned. Had the supplier been made liable, these companies would have found it difficult to get an insurance cover—even for a compensation of $450 million. In contrast, French and Russian companies have their governments to bail them out. Without this legislation, American companies would have been muscled out. *What is the government’s stand?* Unless there’s a domestic liability regime, no foreign company will invest in the civil nuclear field. Without it, India is unlikely to be eligible for other funds from foreign bodies if a nuclear meltdown or a major accident takes place. *Is a compensation of $450 million adequate?* Certainly not. For instance, the compensation paid by Union Carbide to the victims of the 1984 Bhopal Gas Tragedy was just $470 million, according to one estimate, it amounted to nine cents per day per person over the 19 years since the incident occurred. Initial official death toll was 3,000; subsequent deaths were nearly 15,000; people disabled permanently totalled 50,000. A nuclear disaster will have much wider and far-reaching negative consequences than what happened in Bhopal. *The worst nuclear accident:* Chernobyl disaster, Ukraine, 1986. Over 50 people died at the plant. An estimated 65,000 died from Chernobyl over the years; 400,000 people from neighbouring areas of Ukraine, Belarus and Russia were evacuated and an “exclusion zone” of 3,000 sq km was created and deemed off limits for human habitation for an indefinite period. *** The Indo-US nuclear deal simply refuses to go away, goading activists to engage in a furious debate over a contemplated legislation. Called the Civil Nuclear Liability Bill, it’s considered imperative to lure foreign players into the lucrative civil nuclear energy sector. But its provisions have raised serious questions over the government providing access to foreign nuclear companies, particularly those of the United States, to the Indian market without holding them responsible for the severe repercussions of any accident. This debate also has the echo of that familiar question: is nuclear energy a viable option for India? “A nuclear accident could occur due to faulty equipment or design, so the supplier should be made liable.” There are two contentious aspects of the proposed bill. One, it proposes to cap the level of compensation at $450 million in the event of an accident at a nuclear facility. Two, the responsibility for paying this compensation will rest on the operator (likely to be the Nuclear Power Corporation) and not the supplier or foreign companies building and installing reactors in India. “Even from the free market point of view, such a proposal is totally flawed,” says writer-activist Nityanand Jairaman. His argument: since an accident in a nuclear plant could take place because of faulty design or substandard equipment, the supplier too should be held liable. But the Indian industry thinks otherwise. A recent FICCI working group report on civil nuclear energy, chaired by Nuclear Power Corporation chairman S.K. Jain said, “It’s advisable that the liability for nuclear damages in India be solely attached to the operator of the nuclear installation. The rationale is further augmented by the fact that any activity, whether in respect of supply or services, is being utilised for the operator and not otherwise.” In a nutshell, this means the supplier—foreign companies like France’s Areva SA, Russia’s Rosatom Corp and US giants GE and Westinghouse—will reap huge profits by setting up nuclear reactors and selling their technologies, but will not be required to pay compensation in case of a nuclear accident at their plants. It will also be the operator’s liability to seek insurance cover for a maximum limit of $450 million. Compensation over and above this amount would be borne by the Indian government. The FICCI report, however, adds a caveat—the operator and supplier could enter into a private contract to share the compensation burden. Says Praful Bidwai, writer and a member of the Coalition for Nuclear Disarmament and Peace, told *Outlook*, “This is being done under the combined pressure of the US and Indian industry, both of which are keen to get a share of the Indian civil nuclear energy pie.” However, the Department of Atomic Energy (DAE), responsible for formulating the proposed legislation, says putting a cap on compensation is an international practice. The reason, say DAE officials, is simple—a nuclear accident can cause colossal damages and raise demands for inconceivable compensation amounts. Typically, insurance companies are not willing to underwrite unlimited compensation. Consequently the cap. But why absolve the supplier from liability? Activists allege this proviso has been introduced to enable the American companies to enter the Indian market. It’s easy for the French and Russian companies, which are either completely or partially owned by their governments, to buy an insurance cover for the earmarked $450-million. Since the two US companies are privately owned (though Japanese firms now have major stakes in them), finding an insurance cover would have been a gargantuan task. Without the bill absolving the supplier of liability, the Americans run the risk of being edged out of the Indian market, estimated to be worth over $200 billion. “We’re only trying to create a level playing field,” justifies a South Block official, saying the legislation will help attract investment in the civil nuclear energy sector. Critics, however, accuse the UPA government of favouring the Americans who, during US secretary of state Hillary Clinton’s recent visit, managed to secure a site each in Andhra and Gujarat for nuclear plants (worth $10 billion) based on US technology. Interestingly, three international conventions—the Paris Convention (1960), the Vienna Convention (revised in 1997) and the Convention on Supplementary Compensation for Nuclear Damage (CSC)—also attempt to provide such indemnity to the global nuclear industry. The CSC, however, hasn’t yet come to force as it has been ratified by only three countries. Arguing that it is essential to have a CNL (Civil Nuclear Liability) framework to attract foreign investment and technologies in the civil nuclear energy field, DAE officials also hold out the imminent possibility of India signing and ratifying the Vienna Convention and the CSC. They feel this could help India access larger and “multi-layered” compensation from international sources. But critics say the funds generated through these measures would hardly suffice, pointing to the scale of damage wrought by the Chernobyl nuclear disaster to bolster their point. Closer home, activists point to the experience of the 1984 Bhopal gas tragedy and say the $470 million as compensation was grossly insufficient (see infographic). “It’s unfortunate that a negative lesson is being learnt from the Bhopal gas tragedy,” says Satinath Sarangi of the International Campaign for Justice in Bhopal. He feels the $450-million cap and transfer of liability to the operator has been done because American companies, after their experience in Bhopal, are wary of entering the Indian civil nuclear market unless they receive guarantees of not being held culpable in an accident. The resistance to the bill, the draft of which is ready, has set the stage for the Opposition to accuse the UPA of succumbing to “US pressure” yet again. From c.anupam at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 17:45:27 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:45:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908120441h71e24400p80e27b3c08e86af0@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560908100251m61055704t1d54be26379d0bd8@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908100331n1c28c00ehd849fbf88e866741@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908120441h71e24400p80e27b3c08e86af0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00908120515q56734bb8vd1d10ac58eb62f4e@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rajen "society always recognizes that terrorist apprehended is muslim by name, but muslims are not terrorists." Which society are you referring to sir? People who you can incite by saying such things. speaking ill for one community in such a way is really horrible sir. you are a senior person here. you contradict the first line that you are citing: "propaganda by few for their livelihood is not new to society, but the individuals in society can feel the difference of the words and actions." I am individual whether u notice or not, i can say that you are peddling your RSS propaganda through this forum. You do it very consciously, making statements about the society and other such things. had you been a just, an unbiased person, you would NOT have said these lines. your problem with the muslims are historical, the present generation (people who earn their livelihoods from the muslim community) have not done anything wrong to you per se. why dont you speak against arun gawli, or violent MNS, or gujarati rioters who are seeking refuge in US and UK, absconding trial? these are also terrorists. they went around in jeeps plundering killing people across the fields. there are live footages of that as proof. because of the sick judiciary of gujarat, these cases have been turned into cliches. why would you speak? after all, you consider yourself to be this self styled preacher for the aspirational indian who wants to toil hard in the sun, and earn his own livelihood. your vested interest lies in the fact that you want to establish a land for hindus. you justify their actions as reactions. you have been doing so. please do not ask me show examples, because if i do you'd be defaced here. so stop spewing venom and yes this is very much a personal attack on you sir. it is utterly disgusting for me to read such views, however i consider this forum also as an outlet for expression. the democratic right that you use here to express your views also comes with duties. so please keep your propaganda aside. do not make these categorical judgements instead cite the particulars. it helps one to cite contrary also and then may be a decisive debate. this name-suggestion business in apprehending terrorist only lasts because these names are used/abused sometimes by their own community and on other occasions by people like you, who have these ideas that terrorists are some kind of alien race. NO they are very much from here, from this mind which has been poisoned by this sectarian politics. the underworld, the mafia, the ideological guerilla, the terrorists (islamic or hindu) are born out of conflicts. because we do not have conflict resolution mechanisms in place anywhere in the world. because we prefer the easy way out just by bombing, or sending young minds on to the seas to attack innocent people. i apologise if i am harsh here but your statements are beginning make me think i should discard india as a country. it should just seize to exist as the chinese have foolishly proposed. -anupam On 8/12/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi wrote: > Dear Javed, > propaganda by few for their livelihood is not new to society, but the > individuals in society can feel the difference of the words and actions. In > any organisation, when volunteers are many, some may be deviant, some > compliant, that is the reason, society always recognizes that terrorist > apprehended is muslim by name, but muslims are not terrorists.Like any > other > deviants some on the fringes may feel that they have to retaliate the > violence, but what individuals in society fail to understand is violence > only breeds more of it. There are enough propaganda and speeches that go on > in society, after nammaaz I also had to bear the hate speech on the > loudspeakers regularly but that does not mean that mulsims are preaching > hatred, only some mullas do it for their collecton to soar.! > > And there are new type of evangelists who are "chrstian brahmins" who > preach "vedas" for the gullible, with foreign funds,as the new bible of > Veda.! > > Regards, > > Rajen. > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 7:07 PM, Javed wrote: > > > Dear Rajen > > You say that "RSS does not hate Muslims or Christians", but you seem > > to be ignoring all the hate-propaganda literature that is produced by > > RSS and its allies, and the fact that RSS shakhas in small towns > > brainwash little children against Muslims. Have you seen these 2 > > documentary films called "Boys in the Branch" and "Men in the Trees" > > (directed by Lalit Vachani) that explore exactly how the RSS > > infiltrates the minds of youngsters. Do watch them if you can. > > Working for the nation is fine, but at whose cost? > > > > J > > > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Rajendra Bhat > > Uppinangadi wrote: > > > Rakesh jee, > > > you have your intellect to analyse and judge, you are free citizen of > > > India, but your sweeping judgement of RSS is absolutely wrong, and you > > are > > > entitled to your views, but alteast have the patience to see the > working > > of > > > RSS before you start quoting from the articles of regular baiters like > > > Ashish Nandy and the tribe of pseudo -seculars, let me re-assert, RSS > > does > > > not hate muslims or christians, RSS men and women are volantary men and > > > women who work for the nation , that too with the hope that the wall in > > the > > > partition of 1947 will be brought down, all live with harmony and peace > > > irrespective of their faith, no faith followers dominating the > "majority" > > or > > > "minority" on the basis of faith, converting from faiths to garner > votes > > > with vote banks. > > > Muslims demanded partition and got it, but worked and struggled with > all > > > against slavery and the British rule, but the land mass was not loot > > after > > > robbery to be distributed after freedom. Only 23 percent went to the > > > partitioned land, rest assured the leaders and the nation that they > will > > be > > > living harmoniously with their hindu brothers, but we have seen the > > deviant > > > in them, and the silent majority of muslims tolerating such deviants > with > > > NGOs. > > > As to the deviants of the lot, they are emboldened by the fact that > they > > > though, in very small quantum, numerically, have supporters in so > > > called pseudo seculars who have love of freedom to fight for any faith > as > > > legal., but not hindu, because then it is communal, not secular.! > > > Regards, > > > Rajen. > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Rakesh Iyer > > wrote: > > >> > > >> Dear Rajen jee > > >> > > >> While it certainly is a questionable practice not to declassify the > > >> documents of intelligence of about more than 30 years ago, you seem to > > make > > >> a complete mockery of the investigations in the Malegaon case, as if > > Hindus > > >> can not be party to any terror blasts within the country, more so > those > > who > > >> believe in the 'Hindutva' ideology. > > >> > > >> This is a wrong value-based position and I strongly disagree with it. > > One > > >> must not forget that the Sangh Parivar is such is based on the > > ideological > > >> position of disregarding the rights of the minorities to a life of > > dignity, > > >> and this is certainly a shame when compared with the ideals on which > the > > >> Indian Constitution was and is still based. (Unless of course you > > believe > > >> that the Constitution itself is a shame to begin with). > > >> > > >> Any matter must be thoroughly investigated and only after proper > > >> investigations should we derive conclusions from it. Whether it be > > Malegaon > > >> or Mumbai blasts, this should be the way to go. Also, if matters > > relating to > > >> the case are present in the public domain, they should be presented to > > the > > >> public from the point of view of both sides (the accuser and the > > accused). > > >> And specifically, if people have doubts regarding the direction or > > certain > > >> matters within the case, these can and should be raised in the media > and > > >> elsewhere for public discussion. > > >> > > >> The shameful part is that in India, when someone is claimed to be a > > >> terrorist, he/she is taken to be one irrespective of whether the final > > >> investigations indeed state the same or not. The basic notion of > > 'innocent > > >> until proven guilty' is reversed to be stated as 'guilty even if > termed > > >> innocent by courts' in such cases. Whether it be Geelani or Sadhvi > > Pragya > > >> Thakur, that has happened. I have not seen the concerned articles as > > >> mentioned by Mr. Puniyani, but I believe that unless one has evidence > to > > >> prove the judgement as wrong, or valid questions regarding the basis > on > > >> which the judgement was made, one should not make atrocious > allegations > > of > > >> this kind. > > >> > > >> Therefore, on the same grounds as I feel that Puniyani jee's side may > be > > >> wrong, I equally feel that your side can also be wrong. > > >> > > >> Regards > > >> > > >> Rakesh > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Rajen. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Rajen. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From taraprakash at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 17:51:57 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:21:57 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] universal civil code References: <4eab87870908110058g6cdc57fco9208399f1ecf6192@mail.gmail.com><232101.51937.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com><4eab87870908112025t4d5ca542if7d47bdd3920529e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <14B86AA418CB4B99A8C760E0921465C5@tara> I believe we need to have a greater debate on this issue. Khat panchayats have added a new dimension to the debate on Civil code. Should the jaats be forced to follow marriage related laws under Hindu Undivided Family act? I would love to hear some views on this. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rakesh Iyer" To: "Murali V" Cc: "sarai list" Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 5:06 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast AccusedGet a Respite > Dear Murali > > Great idea, provided: > > 1) The civil code will be introduced based on points of public discussion, > after having heard out all views, and implemented only if it is approved > through a referendum. All people of India must be involved, as it concerns > them in particular, and must be encouraged to bring their choice to public > notice through means of referendum. > > 2) The civil code must be looked at every 15-20 years to see if things > have > to be changed or not (in suit to current realities). For example, 20 years > ago gay rights may not have been supported to the extent they are today. > That has to be recognized. The code must also be debated upon periodically > (not necessarily for changing) and on special occasions if changes have to > be brought. > > Infact, such a civil code will be most useful to minorities, unlike the > way > it is portrayed by Muslim fundamentalists. And the BJP should be > criticized > for not having thought about it when they were in power (although what > form > would that code have taken is something speculative). > > > Regards > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 12 18:07:31 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 05:37:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] "A Home-grown Conflict" (Re: Balochistan) Message-ID: <700526.68282.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> "Top Article: A Home-grown Conflict"   Malik Siraj Akbar11 August 2009   When the first Baloch insurgency broke out in 1948 to resist the illegal and forceful annexation of the Baloch-populated autonomous Kalat state with Pakistan, Manmohan Singh - today Indian prime minister - was barely a teenager while his Pakistani counterpart Yousuf Raza Gilani had not even been born to witness the rebellion's magnitude. Yet, last month, both leaders in Sharm el-Sheikh discussed for the first time the indefatigable Baloch insurgency. Pakistan has been blaming India for causing trouble in its resource-rich province. Gilani broached the issue with India at a time disgruntled Baloch youth have removed the Pakistani flag from schools and colleges and stopped playing the national anthem. Punjabi officers refuse to serve in Balochistan, fearing they would be target-killed. Islamabad attributes the unrest to 'foreign involvement'. India is not the first to be blamed. Similar allegations were levelled in the past against the now defunct Soviet Union, Afghanistan and Iraq to discredit the indigenous movement for retaining a distinct Baloch identity. Indian assistance sounds ridiculous given that the Baloch do not share a border, common language, religion or history with India. Hardly has 1 per cent of Balochs have visited India. The idea of Pakistan never attracted the secular Baloch. Ghose Baksh Bizanjo, a Baloch leader, said in 1947: "It is not necessary that by virtue of our being Muslims we should lose our freedom... If the mere fact that we are Muslims requires us to join Pakistan, then Afghanistan and Iran... should also amalgamate with Pakistan." Over the years, Islamabad has applied a multi-pronged approach to deal with Balochista Apart from military operations launched in 1948, 1958, 1962, 1973 and 2002 to quash the rebellion, Islamabad adopted other tactics. First, it kept the province economically backward by denying it good infrastructure, mainly in education and health. Natural gas was discovered in Balochistan in 1951 and supplied to Punjab's industrial units. The Balochs hardly benefit from their own gas. Second, Balochs, whom the state views as traitors, were denied representation in the army, foreign services, federal departments, profitable corporations, Pakistan International Airlines, customs, railways and other key institutions. Third, Balochistan has historically been remote-controlled from Islamabad. A Pakistan army corps commander, often a Punjabi or a Pathan, and the inspector general of the Frontier Corps, a federal paramilitary force with less than 2 per cent Baloch representation, exert more power than the province's elected chief minister. The intelligence agencies devise election plans and decide who has to come to the provincial parliament and who should be ousted. Fourth, Islamabad has created a state of terror inside Balochistan. Hundreds of check posts have been established to harass people and restrict their movement. Forces and tanks are stationed even on campuses of universities. Fifth, national and international media are denied access to conflict zones in Balochistan. Several foreign journalists were beaten up supposedly by intelligence agencies personnel or deported when they endeavoured to report the actual situation. Sixth, international human rights organisations are denied access to trace the whereabouts of some 5,000 'missing persons'. Pakistan is also in a state of denial about the existence of around 2,00,000 internally displaced persons in Balochistan. Seventh, Islamabad has been engaged in systematic target killing of key Baloch democratic leaders. Ex-governor and chief minister of Balochistan, Nawab Akbar Bugti, 79, became a victim once he demanded Baloch rights. Balach Marri, a Balochistan Assembly member, was killed to undermine the movement. In April this year, three other prominent leaders were whisked away by security forces and subsequently killed. Eighth, Pakistan has pitted radical Taliban against secular and democratic Baloch forces. The state is brazenly funding thousands of religious schools across the province with the help of Arab countries to promote religious radicalisation. Elements supportive of Taliban were covertly helped by state institutions to contest and win general elections. They now enjoy sizeable representation in the Balochistan Assembly to legislate against the nationalists and secular forces. Ninth, Islamabad has been using sophisticated American weapons, provided to crush Taliban, against the Baloch people. This has provided breathing space to Taliban hidden in Quetta and weeded out progressive elements. Finally, Afghan refugees are being patronised to create a demographic imbalance in the Baloch-dominated province. Baloch leaders are critical of many democratic countries for not doing 'enough' to safeguard a democratic, secular Baloch people. I asked Bramdagh Bugti, a Baloch commander, about the India link. He laughed and said, "Would our people live amid such miserable conditions if we enjoyed support from India? We are an oppressed people... seeking help from India, the United States, the United Nations and the European Union to come for our rescue." The Baloch movement is rapidly trickling down from tribal chiefs to educated middle-class youth aggressively propagating their cause on Facebook and YouTube. This generation would understandably welcome foreign assistance but will not give up even if denied help from countries like India. The Baloch insist their struggle was not interrupted even at times when India and Pakistan enjoyed cordial relations. The writer is Balochistan bureau chief of Daily Times . From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 18:14:10 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:14:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Actor Sanjay Suri talks about his lost homeland Kashmir Message-ID: <6353c690908120544x689152bfo75ee5af38115b0ad@mail.gmail.com> Sanjay Suri: The Journey Home *Link - http://news.avstv.com/2009/08/10/sanjay-suri-the-journey-home/ August 10th, 2009 * *by E. Nina Rothe* Actor Sanjay Suri has never been afraid to take on controversial roles. In his breakthrough performance as the HIV-infected leading man in ‘My Brother Nikhil’ (http://www.mybrothernikhil.com/) he faced head on the unthinkable for an actor — to be henceforth typecast as the anti-hero. In the Nandita Das-directed ‘Firaaq’(http://www.firaaqthefilm.com/), once again Suri played a character whom the audience could have easily found unlikable — with such grace and profound understanding that, in the process, he forced everyone to rethink their own definition of courage. Piyush Jha’s release ‘Sikandar’ ( http://broadband.bigflix.com/bigflicks/faces/Sikandar/index.html) opens on August 21st worldwide and for Sanjay Suri the film has been a very personal journey back to Kashmir, the place where he was born but can no longer call home. It is impossible to discuss Suri’s complex character in the film without giving a great deal of the plot away and that is something I have vowed never to do. So instead, I’d like to share a stirring talk I had with the handsome, brilliant and charmingly candid Sanjay Suri on what it was like to film in Kashmir, what his views are on the volatile region and what will be some of his upcoming projects. *What was it like to return to Kashmir after so many years and so much turmoil?* I am at a loss of words when I have to answer this question. A feeling that I may not be able to express and articulate. But I shall try my best to put forward my inner most thoughts. It was like Going back home without a place to stay!!! I was visiting “home” after 18 long years. I wonder why I still call it “My home”. Maybe because no other place could give me that feeling of belonging, that identification after having being called a migrant somewhere and a North Indian in another place, sometimes even a Refugee in my own country. But that still does not answer my own question of why the Valley feels like home. Is it home or is it just memories of home, my childhood, my family, my orchids, my lakes, my rivers, my play ground, my chinars, my autumn and the spring? I don’t know if I was happy to go back after 18 years or not. Maybe I should have let it remain in my memories, a lost chapter in our lives. Or was I scared that I might not like it now because all was in the past? The association is in my mind and all those people don’t live there anymore. It’s not the same anymore. That playground had no players I knew. Maybe a catharsis was waiting to happen but is it that simple? I believe and know that nature moves ahead and one should not look back but then that “back” is where our identity comes from. The past is important because it has prepared you for the future. And visiting that past is like finding your foot prints in the cold breezy desert sand. I was hoping I would find my way back only to return stronger and happier, but it’s not that simple. *What did you notice as the most dramatic change there? And what had remained the same?* Visually, Kashmir looked like a Beautiful Widow who had lost her color, vibrancy, smile and had an expression of irreversible loss. So much has happened there in the last 20 years that every structure has a story to tell. Twenty years is a long time, after the mass migration of Hindus in early Nineties, the Valley was left with just one culture and faith. To me a beautiful garden needs to have all kinds of flowers and not just one kind. That is one change which is so evident and sad. And to me, nothing is the same. *What was the reason why your family left the state?* One unfortunate morning in 1990, my father was shot dead by terrorists at our home in Srinagar. His only fault? That he was a Hindu living in Kashmir, as many of our family’s generations before him. We had to leave lock, stock and barrel. Between that year and 1991, Kashmir witnessed ethnic cleansing and we had to leave the Valley. *During your journey back, did you get to spend time in your actual birthplace, Srinagar? * Initially I was reluctant but then did go to my house in Srinagar. It was very difficult as all the memories came back. Some other family lives there now and they were sensitive enough to let me absorb and spend some moments there. I went to see my school, my playgrounds, a local club, my favorite ice cream parlor and my farm. Some old waiters at the club recognized me in a second, they hugged me and started howling, as earlier they hadn’t even gotten the opportunity to condole my father’s death. I drove around the city and tried to show my wife my childhood. *What were some of your more positive impressions while there?* I hope I am right in saying that people seemed fed up with this prolonged violence and terrorism. Civilians who once supported the separatist organizations seem to have realized it was a huge mistake and all they have got in return was misery. While the world was progressing, Kashmir was burning. Education system, civic facilities, infrastructure, economy, human life, all has suffered. So finally it seems they have woken up. At least I hope so! *And were there times when it felt impossibly hard to even be in Kashmir for you?* Yes many times in a day. Too much was bottled up inside me and sometimes escapism seemed to be the best thing. So there were moments when I would want to catch the next flight out and leave it all behind but then my roots would keep pulling me back*. * A lost era cannot be brought back and a new Kashmir cannot be beautiful without all kinds of flowers — cultures.* * *I believe the answers lie far from our grasp, but what do you see personally as a solution for the troubles of the state?* Like you say, there are no simple answers. But I do feel an adequate government and a strong political will is the need of the hour. Also, to involve people from regions of Jammu and Ladhakh in deciding the fate of the state is key as often they are left out. *After all is said and done, the daily hardships of Kashmir, or the cutthroat dealings of the Indian film industry?* Haha! At least in the film industry one knows who the competition is or who we are fighting against but in Kashmir one never knew the enemy, who could be living next to you*.* *While filming, what were you reading or even listening to?* To be honest, I was just absorbing me being there and remembering my childhood so there was no time to listen to or read anything. In fact I was inspired to write but couldn’t do so either. *You have always chosen unconventional roles in your career and your role in this film is no exception. Without giving any of the plot away, what drew you to this character?* Ironically, when I left Kashmir I hated politicians and now as a professional actor I am playing one. I really liked the human element in the script. A story like ‘Sikandar’ could be set in any area which has been hostile for years. I had never played a character like this before. Mukhtaar is charismatic, charming and shrewd. A reformed militant leader, that gives him many layers to play with and I enjoyed that part of the character. thanks -- Aditya Raj Kaul Freelance Writer Cell - +91-9873297834 Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 20:08:12 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:08:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] universal civil code In-Reply-To: <14B86AA418CB4B99A8C760E0921465C5@tara> References: <4eab87870908110058g6cdc57fco9208399f1ecf6192@mail.gmail.com> <232101.51937.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908112025t4d5ca542if7d47bdd3920529e@mail.gmail.com> <14B86AA418CB4B99A8C760E0921465C5@tara> Message-ID: Dear Taraprakash Can you put the text of this 'Hindu undivided families Act' on the list? This is because I didn't find any act with such a name. What I did get is the Hindu marriage act and of course, the Hindu Code Bill. The Hindu undivided families (HUF) can apply for an income tax exemption, is the only information I got about this. Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 20:43:15 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:43:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Manipur, the banana state of India Message-ID: Home | Current Affairs | Opinion | Business | Engaged Circle | Culture & Society | | Web Specials | Interact | Archives Wednesday, 12 August 2009 Advertise With Us| | *TEHELKA INITIATIVES:* Critical Futures | Tehelka Foundation *From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 32, Dated August 15, 2009* *CURRENT AFFAIRS* *cover story * *Life In A Shadow Land* *As Manipur comes to a boil in the aftermath of a fake encounter, **SHOMA CHAUDHURY** maps the fractured truths and complex wars raging in the state. Photographs by **SHAILENDRA PANDEY* ON JULY 23, 2009, on an ordinary day in Imphal, six people were going about their morning chores in a crowded market on BT Road. P Lukhoi Singh, a rider working with the Assam Rifles, had just delivered a packet to the SP (CID) and had stopped to chat with a friend. Gimamgal, a peon, was cycling to work. Ningthonjam Keshorani, mother of three, was selling fruit. W Gita Rani had just visited her doctor and was trying to catch an autorickshaw. Rabina Devi, five months pregnant, was holding her 2-year-old son Russel’s hand and buying a banana before she met up with her husband, working at a mobile shop. And 22-year-old Chongkham Sanjit, a former insurgent, was on his way to buy medicine for a sick uncle in hospital. [image: image] *Counter kills* Sanjit, killed in cold blood; Rabina Devi lies next to him, shot by accident Photos : Anonymous *View slideshow *** Suddenly, a young man ran from a police frisking. Shots rang out. Lukhoi Singh heard a sound like “automatic firing” and tried to duck beneath his motorbike but was badly hit. He saw two cops walking into the crowd, firing. He told them he was hurt but they did not stop. Gimamgal heard a burst of sound and kept cycling. He didn’t realise he had been hit till he saw blood pouring down his body. His left arm was shattered. N Keshorani heard the gunfire and started to push her fruit cart away but buckled suddenly. She had been shot in the calf. Gita Rani just heard a sound. She didn’t realise she had been hit till she saw blood staining her chest. Rabina Devi just dropped dead. A bullet went straight through her forehead and out of her neck. Her little son saw his mother lying in a pool of blood and began to scream. Sanjit was standing at a PCO when within minutes he was surrounded by commandos. There were four civilians injured and one dead on the road: the cops needed an alibi. On that busy road, in the middle of a crowded market, in full view of Manipur’s citizens, Sanjit was dragged into a pharmacy next door and shot point blank. His body was then dragged out by the commandos and tossed into a truck along with Rabina Devi. All of this passed for a routine day in Manipur. The area was not cordoned off, no forensics were called in. The State Assembly was in session when the incident happened. By late afternoon, Chief Minister Ibobi Singh had tabled a statement saying Sanjit, a member of PLA, a proscribed militant outfit, had shot five civilians while trying to escape a police frisking but Manipur’s brave commandos had killed him in an encounter. A 9mm Mauser was found on him. The CM also said there was no way to stem the menace of insurgents except to “eliminate” them (a statement he later denied). The Opposition swallowed the story without question. Everyone went back to business. Manipur is a dark shadow land. Nothing there is what it seems. Fear and fatigue have become its universal character traits. It is estimated that about 300 people have been killed in 2009 alone between insurgents and state forces. But nobody dares to raise any questions. People suspect things, but in the absence of proof, they look away. Each time someone dies, the neighbourhood constitutes a Joint Action Committee (JAC). Token protests are made, sometimes followed by token compensations, and everyone tries to live on. The same would have happened this time, except an anonymous photographer captured the damning extra-judicial killing of Sanjit on camera. Terrified of publishing the pictures in local papers, the photographer contacted TEHELKA. Our story – *Murder in Plain Sight *– published last week was like a pressure cooker burst. As the story traveled, protests erupted across the state. People everywhere poured into the streets, demanding a judicial enquiry and the chief minister’s resignation. Young boys fought off commandos with slingshots and marbles. Women stretched their *phaneks*across roads as deterrents (Manipuri men are traditionally forbidden to touch women’s clothes drying on a clothesline) and openly courted arrested. As L Gyaneshwari, a women protestor recovering in hospital, says, “TEHELKA opened the gates to the tears blocked within us. We have always known the truth about these killings but we never had any evidence and had lost the strength to speak. Now, we’ve found courage again. If a vegetable vendor had not grabbed Rabina Devi’s bag and kept it with her, the commandos would have put a 9mm in it and passed her off as a militant as well.” “TEHELKA has woken up Manipur,” says Arun Irengbam, editor of the news daily, *Ireipak.*The sentiment runs strong. “We cannot thank TEHELKA enough for bringing the truth to light,” says Dayanada Chingtham, co-ordinator of the Apunba Lup, an apex body of activist groups. “We wish you had done this story two years earlier, our police have become too brazen,” says a man, working — ironically — in the office of Joy Kumar, the DGP of Police and the man, in a sense, at the heart of the storm. True to script, as the valley erupted in unarmed protest, the State responded with typical ham-handedness. Commandos were deployed everywhere and protestors were beaten back with water cannons, tear gas and smoke bombs. Curfew was imposed. In a telling detail, Rabina Devi’s grandmother, MRK Rajesana, was among a group of elderly women marching towards the Governor’s house when they were stopped by commandos. “Arrest us”, they taunted. Instead, the cops began to hurl smoke bombs at them. Some of the old women ran into a tiny chicken shop for shelter and pulled the shutter down. A cop found a small chink in the shutter and threw three smoke bombs in. “Die, you hags”, he shouted. Imagine the outrage of the grandmother: a pregnant granddaughter shot dead, buying a banana, and now the oppressive suffocations of a vengeful State. “Manipur’s women fought the British in 1904 and 1939. We fought the Indian army in 2004 for Manorama Devi. It is time for another *nupi lal* (women’s war). I am inviting our women to come forward for another war,” says she. *‘The problem is as much with Delhi as with Imphal. The situation in Manipur can get much worse than Jammu and Kashmir but the Centre just does not want to recognise it’* *Ved Marwah,* former governor of Manipur The central hospital in Manipur is full of such brewing stories. KH Lokhen Singh, an autorickshaw driver, was walking down the road, not even part of a protest, when a passing commando hurled a smoke bomb at him. As the bomb exploded, Lokhen’s face was scalded. He lies in a hospital room now, face burnt, blinded. His tiny two-yearold daughter Sangeeta — a baby with an angelic face — lies sleeping on the floor on a mat beside him. Finally, on August 5, 2009, a full week after the story first broke, Chief Minister Ibobi Singh called a press conference, admitted he had been misguided into making a false statement about the “unfortunate incident”, and promised a judicial enquiry. Six commandos, including a sub-inspector, were suspended. Though protests continued to rage across the state even after his announcement, for the moment, the immediate crisis seems to have been defused. THE FAKE encounter of July 23, however, tells a darker story about Manipur. It lays bare the pent up triumvirate of emotions that have come to dominate the psyche of people here: extreme fear, extreme distrust and extreme fatigue. Speak to anyone in the state — the sweetshop owner at the airport, the taxi driver, historians, housewives, journalists, activists, vendors, doctors, mechanics — and despair curdles just beneath. Everybody has stories to tell. Stories of extortion. Kidnapping. Threats. Demand notes. Corruption. And extra-judicial killing. Far away from the national gaze, in fact, this tiny emerald valley surrounded by cloud-kissed emerald hills is on the verge of internal collapse. Much of this contemporary mess has historical roots. Manipur has never entirely been a willing participant of the Indian Union. Its dominant community — the Meiteis — claim a proud and unbroken history that goes back 2,000 years. In 1947, when the British left, the Manipur Kingdom established itself as a constitutional monarchy and held elections to its own parliament. Two years later, in 1949, the Maharaja of Manipur agreed to (or was forced to, claim the Meiteis) merge with India. First as an inferior C-State, then in 1963 as an Union Territory, and finally in 1972 as a State of India. *‘Guns will not stop the insurgency. Just stop the cycle of killing and peace will come. We can earn money, we can manage our family, but “the Act” is beyond bearing’* *L Mem Choubi,* Apunba Lup Almost immediately, in 1964, the first underground movement for independence was born as the United National Liberation Front (UNLF). Other insurgent outfits with varying versions of nationalism followed in the 1970s: the PLA, the PREPAK, the KCP, the KYKL. But these were not all. Manipur is made up of a rainbow community. Fifty seven percent of its people are the Vaishnavite Hindu Meiteis, who live dominantly in the valley. In the surrounding hills live the Nagas, Kukis and Mizo- Chin tribes. The Nagas and Kukis, which themselves have sub-groups, are mostly Christian. About seven percent of the state’s population is made up of Muslims — Pangals — who also live in the valley in a district called Thoubal. Historically, the Meiteis have always felt and behaved superior to the hill tribes. Predictably then, each of these communities have sprouted their own militant underground movements. The Naga movement, in fact, predates the UNLF to the 1950s. To simplify a long and complex history, what all of this essentially means is that over the years, this tiny valley with a population of no more than 25 lakh people has sprouted almost 40 insurgent groups. Some of them are fighting the Indian State; many of them are fighting each other. Equally, as Central funds for development have poured into the valley, but failed to climb the hills, the fights have become less over identity and more over money. With an eye on the pie, many of the big insurgent groups have splintered into innumerable small factions. As every Manipuri citizen will tell you with disgust: “Every sub-ethnic group in Manipur has its own militia, and every militia has its own extortion industry.” The stories of extortion in Manipur are epic. All well-heeled citizens are routinely sent “demand notes” in the form of threat calls, kidnappings, grenades or Chinese bombs hurled into shops and homes, or outright killings. Apart from these individual payouts, every government contract or development fund has a fixed scaffold of cuts that go to the underground – or “UG” as they are collectively known. These fixed cuts have now peaked at 38 percent of every project. In early 2009, Dr Kishan, a officer of the Manipur Civil Service, was shot for resisting extortion demands from a development fund. As historian and former Apunba Lup leader, Lokendra Arambam — an eloquent and disillusioned elder — puts it mildly, “There has been a qualitative degeneration of the militants.” Things are so bleak that the outfits that restrict themselves to “institutional extortion” are now seen as honourable or principled. EVERY ETHNIC GROUP HAS ITS OWN MILITIA, EVERY MILITIA HAS ITS OWN EXTORTION INDUSTRY The UG is everywhere in Manipur, permeating the skin of everyday life. Most of them run parallel governments, complete with Finance-in-Charge, Auditor General and Secretaries of military and cultural affairs. In several heinous incidents, as in the infamous Heirok village episode, the PREPAK group — fanatic revivalists who want the Meiteis to go back to their pre-Hindu past — walked into a village celebrating a pre-Diwali ceremony and shot a boy and girl in cold blood as a lesson for the village. But the trouble is, the UG is only one facet of the fear that stalks Manipur. The more damning facet — because you are groomed to expect better from it — is the State itself. LIKE CHAUVINISTIC nation States everywhere in the world, from the very start, India has responded to the riddles of identity in the North-East with brute force rather than patient dialogue. In 1958, it responded to the Naga movement with a draconian version of an old colonial law: The Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA). This Act allows even junior officers of the army to arrest, torture or kill any citizen on mere suspicion, and to search and destroy property without a warrant. It also stipulates that no army officer or jawan can be punished without the sanction of the Central government. With every passing year, different districts of Manipur were brought under this Act. By 1980, all of Manipur had begun to live under its shadow. It is difficult to imagine the history of violence this Act has brought to Manipur, and the “psychology of impunity” it has bred. Think of a conflict zone — a place where death comes easy, where everyone is jumpy — and think of young men enabled to do as they please, ungoverned by law, unmindful of any punishment. *‘Our morality was so muddied and the fear of State and non-State players so rampant, even civil society had taken a backseat. Tehelka has retrieved a bit of our humanity’* *Lokendra Arambam,* historian and dramatist In the 30 years that the Act has been valid in Manipur, hundreds of young men and women have disappeared, been tortured, raped or killed. Despite dozens of human rights reports, no action was taken against the army. In 2004, the frustration pent up over decades spilled out like lava. A young woman, Manorama Devi, was dragged out of her house in the middle of the night by jawans of the Assam Rifles and led away. Her body was found the next day, brutalised, raped. A spontaneous rage ran through Manipur. Amidst protests across the state, a dozen elderly women stripped themselves stark naked and demonstrated in front of the Assam Rifles headquarters carrying searing placards: “Indian Army Rape Us.” Their extreme despair had a tiny impact: The Jeevan Reddy Committee was set up to review the Act. Its recommendations have still not been implemented, but in a minor victory, the Act and the army were removed from the city districts of Imphal. In the five years since, a new monster has been born on Manipur’s already ravaged landscape: the Manipur Police Commandos. With the army pulled back, the state and Central governments took a conscious decision to groom a wing of the state police to “stamp out” the insurgents. Unfortunately, that has bred a fear in the people as crippling as their fear of the UG. As the editor of *Ireipak,* Arun Irengbam, puts it, “The psychology of the AFSPA is like a contagious disease. The commandos move around with the same sense of impunity the army used to.” He is right. The official mindscape in Manipur is so militarised, it cannot think of approaching any problem except through violent suppression. As in every conflict zone, the arguments are complex. On the one hand are the excesses of the insurgents: the extortions, the murders, the intra-outfit killings. As a top police officer puts it, “We can either let things drift, or we can decide to take action. The truth is, we are hitting back more in the last two years. Look at how the Punjab problem was sorted out. I accept our boys might go too far sometimes, but you have to understand their psychology too. They too can be shot at any time and they get jumpy. Our police stations are unviable. We have just 10-15 men, we need at least 58 per station. We need more men, we need more weapons.” IT IS DIFFICULT TO IMAGINE THE‘PSYCHOLOGY OF IMPUNITY’ THE ACT HAS BROUGHT TO MANIPUR But power is a heady pill and the atrocities of the army over 30 years have found a twin face in the commandos. The two years since the police decided to “hit back” coincide with a huge spurt in police atrocities. The brazen killing of Sanjit — in broad daylight, in a crowded market — is only a symptom. The list of similar (but unproven) illegal executions in just 2008 runs a mile long. Even if you suppose for a moment that they are all militants, as the police might claim, Johnson Elangbam of the Apunba Lup has a timely reminder. “If even Kasab can be put on trial for Mumbai 26/11, why don’t Manipuri boys deserve the same treatment under law?” This absence of law — the absence of sanity — has created a corrosive paranoia in Manipur. Drive into Imphal and you feel the fear everywhere. Jeep-loads of commandos drive around the city, heavily armed, shooting and bullying at will. According to activists, in 2005, Lokhon Singh, a commando, was shot by Vikas, a PLA cadre, who in turn was killed. During Singh’s funeral, the police stormed into Vikas’ house and arrested everyone in his family. Then they allegedly gang-raped his girlfriend, Naobi. When Naobi told the court, “They have taken whatever they could from my body,” an officer apparently threatened her in front of the magistrate. No action was taken. In another sign of this paranoid fear bred by the State, after TEHELKA’s story on Sanjit’s fake encounter, journalists and activists in Imphal tried hard to deter anyone from TEHELKA visiting Manipur. “We cannot assure your safety,” they said. “The commandos are looking everywhere for the photographer who gave you the pictures.” At the chief minister’s conference, local journalists who had helped us navigate the city asked us not to recognise them for fear of reprisal. Sometimes, distrust can be more damaging than empirical fear. *‘We can either let things drift, or we can decide to take action. The truth is, we are hitting back more in the last two years. That is how the Punjab problem was sorted’* *Senior police officer,* requesting anonymity Ved Marwah, former super cop and former governor of Manipur affirms, “No police in the country has a worse record than the Manipur police. There is an allegation that they shot one their own officers in a fake encounter. The force is completely divided along ethnic lines and functions like the armed militia of the ruling party. That place is like the Wild East.” There are immediate palpable reasons why the Manipur Police Commandos have suddenly morphed into a new dragon face of the State. There is, most of all, the psychology of impunity. But since the decision to use the police and army as a combined force to “stamp out” the insurgents, there has also been a sudden rapid expansion of the force. From a mere 300, the commando unit has shot up to a 1,000. Now, according to the police source, 1,600 new commandos have been sanctioned. But where are these high caliber men to come from? Local journalists and activists speak of a massive recruitment scam. To become a sub-inspector, you pay Rs 10-15 lakh with kickbacks running all the way to the top politicians. To become a commando, you pay Rs 5 lakh. To become a rifleman, you pay Rs 1-2 lakh. Sources within the force confirm all this to be true. Unfortunately, logic demands you earn back what you pay out and the number of extortion demands by the police has risen proportionately to the expansion of the force. Taking in former militants into the force, as well as giving gallantry awards to commandos who kill militants, have all contributed towards creating a force that is, at least partly, motivated by a combination of greed, testosterone, vendetta and unbridled power. “I admit 10-20 percent of our boys could be bad eggs,” says the police officer. “We have to fine-tune their behaviour and make them more humane. I also admit the AFSPA needs to be amended, particularly section 4 and 6 whose wording now allows the boys leeway to torture or kill under any circumstance. But, in general, the violence is unlikely to come down soon. We need at least two years to clean up all this. We have to finish what has been begun. And please don’t believe everything you read in the Manipur press. First find out which UG outfit it is a mouthpiece for.” TRUTH IS, indeed, a difficult thing to ascertain in Manipur. The state is like an illusory pool, you step into it, and you are lost. Militants and politicians are friends. Commandos and extortionists are collaborators. Friends are informers. Law enforcers are killers. Beneath the table, every hand is interlinked. TRUTH IS DIFFICULT TO ASCERTAIN IN MANIPUR. EVERY HAND IS INTERLINKED BENEATH In early 2008, the police carried out a surprise raid in Babupara – the elite colony where ministers and government officials live behind several layers of thickly grilled iron gates. According to a top police source, who asked not to be named, twelve KYKL insurgents were found in a Congress MLA’s house. According to the same source, UNLF cadres were also found in a MPP member’s house. Others will tell you that politicians themselves inform the UG about every new scheme that comes into the state – expecting tidy thank you notes in return for their courtesy. What makes things worse is that, as the police officer alleged, the media in Manipur is certainly part of the many mirages in the state. A complex matrix of allegiance and coercion governs them. On August 4, for instance, shockingly, *The Sangai Express *carried a glowing account of the KCP (MC), a proscribed militant outfit’s third anniversary. The next day, the paper carried an open threat from the outfit to Vodafone masquerading as a story. “Tabunga Meiti, secretary in-charge of the revolutionary government of the KCP,” the story went, “says that the bomb attack at the office of Vodafone was the first and last warning for not conceding to the request for some monetary contribution to the outfit… To run an important organisation like KCP which is fighting for the cause of a nation, money is required…” “The UG does try to use our papers as notice boards for their demand notes,” says Arun of *Ireipak* wryly. Issued a threat by the UG outfit a few years ago for not toeing their ultra-revivalist line, he went underground for six months, before he decided he’d rather die than live a life of a fugitive. But many others cave in. As Pradip Phanjaobam, editor, *Imphal Free Press,*says, “The government also tries to issue guidelines to us, but we argue with them. Most of our real self-censorship is out of fear of the UG.” Or out of allegiance. For as another editor admits candidly, “I do have great empathy for the UNLF.” *‘If even Kasab can be put on trial for Mumbai 26/11, why don’t Manipuri boys deserve the same treatment under law? Why should they be eliminated?’* *Johnson Elangbam,* rights activist SANJIT’S MOTHER, Inaotombi, sits stoically in white against a bamboo pole in Khurai. She refuses to conduct the *shraddha* ceremony for her son till a judicial enquiry is instated and the CM resigns. Inaotombi has borne more than a mother should. Her son joined the proscribed PLA when he was 13 though she pleaded with him not to. By the time he was 20, he had a chest injury and had come overground. Two years later, he was dead. She has three other sons and must now contain their fear and anger. When the neighbours start rattling a stone on a metal pole — a cops want to kill. What made a 13-yearold boy join the PLA? Neither AFSPA nor commandos can answer that question. The rift at the heart of Manipur is an internal one – between its various ethnic groups. Neither AFSPA nor commandos can heal that either. Equally then, the intellectuals of Manipur could draw some lessons of their own. How valid is the injured sense of alienation that has kept the insurgencies buoyant over 30 years? “Is there space for us in the Indian imagination?” own communities. It needs inclusive growth with inclusive governance.” More emotional sensitivity from the Centre might help, though. When the new Minister for the North-East, BK Handique was asked to comment on the crisis in Manipur, he said, “Law and order is not our concern.” It should be, though, because the militarisation has the Centre’s sanction and as Pradip says, “You lose a bit of yourself every time you put up a fight. And you lose more if nothing happens.” *WRITER’S EMAIL* shoma at tehelka.com *From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 32, Dated August 15, 2009* Print this story Feedback Add to favorites Email this story UP Congress head arrested By A Special Correspondent Read>> HS Sabharwal case takes darker turn By Divya Gupta Section 377 Amended In Favour Of Gay Sex By Sabika Muzaffar Ganguly honoured by Lancashire University By Tara Menon More Stories>> [image: Click here to find out more!] About Us | Who’s Who at Tehelka| Advertise With Us | Print Subscriptions| Syndication | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy| Feedback| Contact Us | Bouquets & Brickbats Tehelka.com is a part of Anant Media Pvt. Ltd. © 2000 - 2009 All rights reserved From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 20:52:11 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:52:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Maharashtra Politics Message-ID: Home | Current Affairs | Opinion | Business | Engaged Circle | Culture & Society | | Web Specials | Interact | Archives Wednesday, 12 August 2009 Advertise With Us| | *TEHELKA INITIATIVES:* Critical Futures | Tehelka Foundation *From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 32, Dated August 15, 2009* *CURRENT AFFAIRS* *maharashtra* *Cooperate Or Else* *With elections looming, the Congress shows little signs of confronting the NCP over the arrest of a Pawar confidante for murder, reports **RANA AYYUB* [image: image] *Sugar rush* The Manjra Cooperative plant in Latur, Marathwada AFTER THE CBI arrested Lok Sabha MP Padamsinh Patil in Maharashtra last June for allegedly plotting a high-profile murder three years ago, Congress leader Vilasrao Deshmukh was asked by newsmen of his views on the arrest. “I won’t comment on the internal matters of [Sharad] Pawar’s party,” Deshmukh said curtly before hurrying away. On the face of it, this should be surprising. For a year, Deshmukh has made noises that his party should break its nearly tenyear- old alliance with Pawar’s Nationalist Congress Party (NCP) and go it alone in October’s assembly elections. The arrest of Patil — a Pawar confidante — should have been a golden opportunity to ditch the NCP. Yet, despite the heat generated by Patil’s arrest, Pawar told TEHELKA: “We have not got any indication from the Congress high command that it is not interested in our alliance.” Such is politics. Formed in May 1999 after splitting from the Congress on the issue of the foreign origin of Italy-born Congress president Sonia Gandhi, the NCP was forced to tie up with the Congress barely six months later, when the state elections threw up a hung assembly. Having thus met and run the government for five years, the coalition fought and won the 2004 assembly elections together, heading off a challenge from the opposition BJP-Shiv Sena alliance which it had routed from power in 1999. [image: image] [image: image] [image: image] *Face-off *NCP Chief Sharad Pawar (top), Maharashtra CM Vilasrao Deshmukh (centre) and Lok Sabha MP Padamsinh Patel (below) Fearing the natural disadvantage of the two-term incumbent, the Congress- NCP ruling coalition is wary of parting ways with each other. One of the key reasons why the Congress-NCP coalition has endured a decade in Maharashtra despite never being the best of friends is also the reason why Deshmukh is loath to make an issue out of Patil’s arrest. This reason is to be found in the array of sugar cooperatives in Maharashtra that do an annual business upward of a whopping Rs 15,000 crore. These cooperatives are almost overwhelmingly controlled by the NCP. Patil’s arrest grabbed headlines not only because he is high profile but also because the man who was murdered, a cousin of his, had no less of a high profile, having been a key player in the cooperative sector. After the CBI, which reports directly to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, arrested him on June 7 this year, millions were stunned when they saw newspaper photographs of Patil the murder accused in a tracksuit, jogging blithely while listening to his iPod, police escort in tow. However, the complicity of the Congress party in protecting Patil has precedent: two years ago, Deshmukh, who was then chief minister as head of the alliance in the state, had given Patil a clean chit in the murder case and had ensured he was not arrested as a suspect. To be sure, both men are political neighbours: Patil hails from Osmanabad and Deshmukh from Latur next door, both in Maharashtra’s Marathwada region, known for its high number of cooperatives. In Latur, Deshmukh’s son, Amit, is the chairman of two large sugar cooperatives, Manjra and Vikas. Of necessity, Deshmukh practices a handsoff approach in the work of the Osmanabad cooperatives, restricting himself to ensuring that his party works in tandem with the NCP. Last month, the NCPCongress alliance won the elections to Osmanabad’s District Cooperative Bank, which provides loans to farmers and the sugar cooperatives. The NCP won the largest number of seats. The NCP controls 70 percent of the state’s sugar co-ops and lakhs of votes linked to them Yet, the NCP is worried that Patil’s arrest might bring unwanted electiontime attention to the cooperatives, where massive corruption has long been alleged. The NCP controls some 70 percent of Maharashtra’s sugar cooperatives and thus has traditionally held sway among millions of sugarcane farmers across a wide swathe of the state. But the party fared poorly in this year’s Lok Sabha elections in Marathwada, winning only one of the eight seats. Ironically, this seat — Osmanabad — was won by Patil. The NCP was especially shaken by the Lok Sabha win of a rebel NCP leader, Sadashiv Mandlik, in Kolhapur, south of Marathwada. Mandlik is a key player in the cooperative business in Kolhapur. Concluding a three-day party meet on July 19, Pawar warned NCP leaders who control the cooperatives to get their houses in order. These cooperatives are known to give crores to candidates during state and national elections. In 2007, a private institute, of which Pawar is president-for-life, published a report which said it had audited the accounts of the state’s sugar cooperatives and claimed that 70 percent of them were sick. As Union Agriculture Minister, Pawar then rushed to announce a financial package worth Rs 400 crore for these “sick” cooperatives. No independent verification by any state agency was conducted. Later that year, a report by the Comptroller & Auditor General of India (CAG) slammed the cooperatives for widespread financial malpractice, saying that an equal sum of Rs 400 crores was siphoned off from them. Pawar got a Rs 400 crore relief package for co-ops deemed ‘sick’ by a private institute WITH ASSEMBLY elections around the corner, sugar cooperatives in Osmanabad and Latur are buying sugarcane from farmers at an all-time high price of Rs 1,800 per quintal. Maruti Rao Patil, a farmer in Dhoka village in Osmanabad who sells cane to a cooperative run by Padamsinh Patil, is ecstatic. “My family was in bad shape three months ago. Now, these cooperatives are giving us good rates.” Predictably, the farmer isn’t swayed by the CBI charges against the arrested NCP leader – just what the party wants. Last month, Pawar’s nephew, Ajit Pawar, a key NCP leader, began to extensively tour the state and meet sugarcane farmers. Ajit’s wife is Padamsinh Patil’s sister. Ajit also has great leverage in managing the affairs of the state’s cooperative banks. He has been the president of the Pune District Cooperative Bank since 1990. Clearly, the NCP is pulling out all the stops to ensure that the Congress doesn’t desert it at this crucial juncture. For now, it appears to be succeeding. During the Lok Sabha elections three months ago, rebel NCP leader Mandlik, approached Rahul Gandhi, offering to switch to the Congress. Gandhi refused. So as long as the cooperative sector works well, the Congress-NCP alliance is here to stay. *WRITER’S EMAIL* rana.ayyub at gmail.com *From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 6, Issue 32, Dated August 15, 2009* Print this story Feedback Add to favorites Email this story UP Congress head arrested By A Special Correspondent Read>> HS Sabharwal case takes darker turn By Divya Gupta Section 377 Amended In Favour Of Gay Sex By Sabika Muzaffar Ganguly honoured by Lancashire University By Tara Menon More Stories>> [image: Click here to find out more!] About Us | Who’s Who at Tehelka| Advertise With Us | Print Subscriptions| Syndication | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy| Feedback| Contact Us | Bouquets & Brickbats Tehelka.com is a part of Anant Media Pvt. Ltd. © 2000 - 2009 All rights reserved From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 20:52:15 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:52:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Human Rights Seminar in December at St. Xavier's College, Bombay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: To see the file that came attached with the mail: http://groups.google.com/group/options-unlimited/browse_thread/thread/ac75693b7714ce62 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: ruby pavri Date: 2009/8/12 Subject: Human Rights Conference at Xavier's St.Xavier's College Mumbai, is planning to hold a UGC sponsored *International Seminar* on the theme 'Human Rights in a Globalized World' This will be held on *10th, 11th and 12th December 2009* at Xavier's. *Target audience: Principals, Teachers of Human Rights/Foundation Courses at affiliated colleges of the University of Mumbai, Academicians involved in HR research, Activists, NGO practitioners, and a few College students *A concept note and *tentative* schedule has been attached for your perusal. If you wish to receive a hard copy of the brochure, let us know. we will send it to you as soon as the final program is confirmed. Do *spread the word* about this event among interested persons.* If you would like to participate, registration for this is to be done via email or over the phone. The fees (Rs. 300) will be collected on the morning of the first day of the seminar, at the venue. To register, please send the following details to < humanrights.xaviers at gmail.com> * - Name - College / Institution - Position / Designation - Contact (email address and telephone number) * The college will call you in the first week of December to confirm your participation. We urge you to register as soon as possible since there are only 100 seats available for this. For further details or queries regarding registration, you can contact Prof. Ruby Pavri at or call 98203 85483 *You can also contact the XDP office at xdp at xaviers.edu *or *call 22620664/5 extn 335 *or* fax them on 22617677 with your details. * Hoping to hear from you soon . Regards, Ruby Pavri * From taraprakash at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 21:49:24 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:19:24 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] universal civil code References: <4eab87870908110058g6cdc57fco9208399f1ecf6192@mail.gmail.com> <232101.51937.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908112025t4d5ca542if7d47bdd3920529e@mail.gmail.com> <14B86AA418CB4B99A8C760E0921465C5@tara> Message-ID: <56D568858E3F48CF9C349D6FB965D209@tara> Well, no, I can't. May be it is called Hindu Marriage Act, or something sounding like that. But there is an act which covers the marriages of all the "Hindus" Or maybe all not covered by personal law boards. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rakesh Iyer To: taraprakash Cc: Murali V ; sarai list Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:38 AM Subject: Re: universal civil code Dear Taraprakash Can you put the text of this 'Hindu undivided families Act' on the list? This is because I didn't find any act with such a name. What I did get is the Hindu marriage act and of course, the Hindu Code Bill. The Hindu undivided families (HUF) can apply for an income tax exemption, is the only information I got about this. Regards Rakesh From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Aug 12 21:57:36 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:27:36 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] On men, masculinity and... Message-ID: <65be9bf40908120927x47648ecckfc6661d9384e568d@mail.gmail.com> Dear All For the second most populous country of the world, this BBC report is a sure compliment!! Please follow the link for more- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6161691.stm Warm regards Taha From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 22:10:17 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:10:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] universal civil code In-Reply-To: <56D568858E3F48CF9C349D6FB965D209@tara> References: <4eab87870908110058g6cdc57fco9208399f1ecf6192@mail.gmail.com> <232101.51937.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908112025t4d5ca542if7d47bdd3920529e@mail.gmail.com> <14B86AA418CB4B99A8C760E0921465C5@tara> <56D568858E3F48CF9C349D6FB965D209@tara> Message-ID: Dear Taraprakash Yes, there is a law which governs the marriages of Hindus, and here is the text of this law. Then may be we can decide about the aspects which are to be debated, if any. Regards Rakesh Text: http://www.sudhirlaw.com/HMA55.htm * THE HINDU MARRIAGE ACT, 1955 * *(Act 25 of 1955)*[18th May, 1955] An Act to amend and codify the law relating to marriage among Hindus. *Preliminary* * * *1. Short title and extent.*-(1) This Act may be called the Hindu Marriage Act, 1955. (2) It extends to the whole of India except the State of Jammu and Kashmir, and applies also to Hindus domiciled in the territories to which this Act extends who are outside the said territories. *2. Application of Act.*- (1) This Act applies,- (a) to any person who is a Hindu by religion in any of of its forms or developments, including a Virashaiva, a Lingayat or a follower of the Brahmo, Prarthana or Arya Samaj; (b) to any person who is a Buddhist, Jaina or Sikh by religion, and (c) to any other person domiciled in the territories to which this Act extends who is not a Muslim, Christian, Parsi or Jew by religion, unless it is proved that any such person would not have been governed by the Hindu law or by any custom or usage as part of that law in respect of any of the matters dealt with herein if this Act had not been passed. Explanation.- The following persons are Hindus, Buddhists, Jainas or Sikhs by religion, as the case may be,- (a) any child, legitimate or illegitimate, both of whose parents are Hindus, Buddhists, Jainas or Sikhs by religion; (b) any child, legitimate or illegitimate, one of whose parents is a Hindu, Buddhist Jaina or Sikh by religion and who is brought up as a member of tribe, community, group or family to which such parents belongs or belonged; and (c) any person who is a convert or re-convert to the Hindus, Buddhist, Jaina or Sikh religion. (2) Notwithstanding anything contained in sub-section (1),nothing contained in this Act shall apply to the members of any Scheduled Tribe within the meaning of clause (25) of Article 366 of the Constitution unless the Central Government, by notification in the Official Gazette, otherwise directs. (3) The expression "Hindus" in any portion of this Act shall be construed as if it included a person who, though not a Hindu by religion is, nevertheless, a person whom this Act applies by virtue of the provisions contained in this section. *3. Definitions.-* In this Act, unless the context otherwise requires,- (a) the expression "custom" and "usage" signify any rule which, having been continuously and uniformally observed for a long time, has obtained the force of law among Hindus in any local area, tribe, community, group or family: Provided that the rule is certain and not unreasonable or opposed to public policy; and Provided further that in the case of a rule applicable only to a family it has not been discontinued by the family; (b)"District Court" means, in any area for which there is a City Civil Court, that Court, and in any other area the principal Civil Court of original jurisdiction, and includes any other civil court which may be specified by the State Government, by notification in the Official Gazette, as having jurisdiction in respect of matters dealt with in this Act; (c)"full blood"and "half blood"- two persons are said to be related to each other by full blood when they are descended from a common ancestor by the same wife and by half blood when they are descended from a common ancestor but by different wives; (d)"uterine blood" - two persons are said to be related to each other by uterine blood when they are descended from a common ancestor but by different husbands. Explanation.- In Clauses (c) and (d) "ancestor" includes the father and "ancestress" the mother; (e)"prescribed" means prescribed by rules made under this Act; (f)(i)"Sapinda relationship" with reference to any person extends as far as the third generation(inclusive) in the line of ascent through the mother, and the fifth (inclusive) in the line of ascent through the father, the line being traced upwards in each case from the person concerned, who is to be counted as the first generation; (ii) two persons are said to be "sapinda" of each other if one is a lineal ascendant of the other within the limits of sapinda relationship, or if they have a common lineal ascendant who is within the limits of sapinda relationship with reference to each of them; (g)"degrees of prohibited relationship " - two persons are said to be within the "degrees of prohibited relationship"- (I) if one is a lineal ascendant of the other; or (ii) if one was the wife or husband of a lineal ascendant or descendant of the other; or (iii)if one was the wife of the brother or of the father's or mother's brother or of the grandfather's or grandmother's brother or the other; or (iv)if the two are brother and sister, uncle and niece, aunt and nephew, or children of brother and sister or of two brothers or of two sisters. Explanation.- for the purposes of clauses (f) and (g) relationship includes- (I) relationship by half or uterine blood as well as by full blood; (ii) illegitimate blood relationship as well as legitimate; (iii) relationship by adoption as well as by blood; and all terms of relationship in those clauses shall be construed accordingly. *4. Overriding effect of Act.- *Save as otherwise expressly provided in this Act.- (a) any text,rule or interpretation of Hindu Law or any custom or usage as part of that law in force immediately before the commencement of this Act shall cease to have effect with respect to any matter for which provision is made in this Act; (b) any other law in force immediately before the commencement of this Act shall cease to have effect in so far as it is inconsistent with any of the provisions contained in this Act. *Hindu Marriages* *5. Condition for a Hindu Marriage.- *A marriage may be solemnized between any two Hindus, if the following conditions are fulfilled, namely: (i) neither party has a spouse living at the time of the marriage; (ii) at the time of the marriage, neither party,- (a) is incapable of giving a valid consent of it in consequence of unsoundness of mind; or (b) though capable of giving a valid consent has been suffering from mental disorder of such a kind or to such an extent as to be unfit for marriage and the procreation of children; or (c) has been subject to recurrent attacks of insanity or epilepsy; (iii) the bridegroom has completed the age of twenty one years and the bride the age of eighteen years at the time of the marriage; (iv) the parties are not within the degrees of prohibited relationship unless the custom or usage governing each of them permits of a marriage between the two; (v) the parties are not sapindas of each other, unless the custom or usage governing each of them permits of a marriage between the two; (vi) (Omitted) *6. Guardianship in Marriage.- *(Omitted by Marriage Laws (Amendment) Act, 1976. *7. Ceremonies for a Hindu marriage.-*(1) A Hindu marriage may be solemnized in accordance with the customary rites and ceremonies of either party thereto. (2) Where such rites and ceremonies include the saptapadi (that is, the taking of seven steps by the bridegroom and the bride jointly before the sacred fire), the marriage becomes complete and binding when the seventh step is taken. *8. Registration of Hindu Marriages.-*(1) For the purpose of facilitating the proof of Hindu marriages, the State Government may make rules providing that the parties to any such marriage may have the particulars relating to their marriage entered in such manner and subject to such condition as may be prescribed in a Hindu Marriage Register kept for the purpose. (2) Notwithstanding anything contained in sub-section (1), the State Government may, if it is of opinion that it is necessary or expedient so to do, provide that the entering of the particulars referred to in sub-section (1) shall be compulsory in the State or in any part thereof, whether in all cases or in such cases as may be specified and where any such direction has been issued, and person contravening any rule made in this behalf shall be punishable with fine which may extend to twenty-five rupees. (3) All rules made under this section shall be laid before the State Legislature, as soon as may be, after they are made. (4) The Hindu Marriage Register shall at all reasonable times be open for inspection, and shall be admissible as evidence of the statements therein contained and certified extracts therefrom shall, on application, be given by the Registrar on payment to him of the prescribed fee. (5) Notwithstanding anything contained in this section, the validity of any Hindu marriage shall in no way be affected by the omission to make the entry. *Restitution of Conjugal rights and judicial separation* * * *9. Restitution of conjugal rights.*- When either the husband or the wife has, without reasonable excuse, withdrawn from the society of the other, the aggrieved party may apply, by petition to the district court, for restitution of conjugal rights and the court, on being satisfied of the truth of the statements made in such petition and that there is no legal ground why the application should not be granted, may decree restitution of conjugal rights accordingly. Explanation- Where a question arises whether there has been reasonable excuse for withdrawal from the society, the burden of proving reasonable excuse shall be on the person who has withdrawn from the society. *10. Judicial separation.-* (1) Either party to a marriage, whether solemnized before or after the commencement of this Act, may present a petition praying for a decree for judicial separation on any of the grounds specified in sub-section (1) of Section 13, and in the case of a wife also on any of the grounds might have been presented. (2) Where a decree for judicial separation has been passed, it shall no longer be obligatory for the petitioner to cohabit with the respondent, but the court may, on the application by petition of either party and on being satisfied of the truth of the statement made in such petition, rescind the decree if it considers it just and reasonable to do so. *Nullity of Marriage and Divorce* * * *11. Nullity of marriage and divorce- Void marriages.*- Any marriage solemnized after the commencement of this Act shall be null and void and may, on a petition presented by either party thereto, against the other party be so declared by a decree of nullity if it contravenes any one of the conditions specified in clauses (i), (iv) and (v), Section 5. *12. Voidable Marriages.-*(1) Any marriage solemnized, whether before or after the commencement of this Act, shall be voidable and may be annulled by a decree of nullity on any of the following grounds, namely:- (a) that the marriage has not been consummated owing to the impotency of the respondent; or (b) that the marriage is in contravention of the condition specified in clause (ii) of Section 5; or (c) that the consent of the petitioner, or where the consent of the guardian in marriage of the petitioner was required under Section 5 as it stood immediately before the commencement of the Child Marriage Restraint (Amendment) Act, 1978, the consent of such guardian was obtained by force or by fraud as to the nature of the ceremony or as to any material fact or circumstance concerning the respondent; or (d) that the respondent was at the time of the marriage pregnant by some person other than the petitioner. 2) Notwithstanding anything contained in sub-section (1), no petition for annulling a marriage- (a) on the ground specified in clause (c) of sub-section (1) shall be entertained if- (i) the petition is presented more than one year after the force had ceased to operate or, as the case may be, the fraud had been discovered ; or (ii) the petitioner has, with his or her full consent, lived with the other party to the marriage as husband or wife after the force had ceased to operate or, as the case may be, the fraud had been discovered; (b) on the ground specified in clause (d) of sub-section (1) shall be entertained unless the court is satisfied- (i) that the petitioner was at the time of the marriage ignorant of the facts alleged; (ii) that proceedings have been instituted in the case of a marriage solemnized before the commencement of this Act within one year of such commencement and in the case of marriages solemnized after such commencement within one year from the date of the marriage; and (iii) that marital intercourse with the consent of the petitioner has not taken place since the discovery by the petitioner of the existence of the said ground. *13. Divorce- *(1) Any marriage solemnized, whether before or after the commencement of the Act, may, on a petition presented by either the husband or the wife, be dissolved by a decree of divorce on the ground that the other party- (i) has, after the solemnization of the marriage had voluntary sexual intercourse with any person other than his or her spouse; or (ia) has, after the solemnization of the marriage, treated the petitioner with cruelty; or (ib) has deserted the petitioner for a continuous period of not less than two years immediately preceding the presentation of the petition; or (ii) has ceased to be a Hindu by conversion to another religion ; or (iii) has been incurably of unsound mind, or has suffering continuously or intermittently from mental disorder of such a kind and to such an extent that the petitioner cannot reasonably be expected to live with the respondent. Explanation- In this clause- (a) the expression "mental disorder" means mental illness, arrested or incomplete development of mind, psychopathic disorder or any other disorder or disability of mind and include schizophrenia; (b) the expression "psychopathic disorder" means a persistent disorder or disability of mind (whether or not including sub-normality of intelligence) which results in abnormally aggressive or seriously irresponsible conduct on the part of the other party and whether or not it requires or is susceptible to medical treatment; or (iv) has been suffering from a virulent and incurable form of leprosy; or (v) has been suffering from veneral disease in a communicable form; or (vi) has renounced the world by entering any religious order; or (vii) has not been heard of as being alive for a period of seven years or more by those persons who would naturally have heard of it, had that party been alive; Explanation.- In this sub-section, the expression "desertion" means the desertion of the petitioner by the other party to the marriage without reasonable cause and without the consent or against the wish of such party, and includes the willful neglect of the petitioner by the other party to the marriage, and its grammatical variations and cognate expression shall be construed accordingly. (1-A) Either party to a marriage, whether solemnized before or after the commencement of this Act, may also present a petition for the dissolution of the marriage by a decree of divorce on the ground- (i) that there has been no resumption of cohabitation as between the parties to the marriage for a period of one year or upwards after the passing of a decree for judicial separation in a proceeding to which they were parties; or (ii) that there has been no restitution of conjugal rights as between the parties to the marriage for a period of one year or upward after the passing of a decree of restitution of conjugal rights in a proceeding to which they were parties. (2) A wife may also present a petition for the dissolution of her marriage by a decree of divorce on the ground- (i) in the case of any marriage solemnized before the commencement of this Act, that the husband had married again before the commencement or that any other wife of the husband married before such commencement was alive at the time of the solemnization of the marriage of the petitioner: Provided that in either case the other wife is alive at the time of the presentation of the petition; (ii) that the husband has, since the solemnization of the marriage, been guilty of rape, sodomy or bestiality; or (iii) that in a suit under Section 18 of the Hindu Adoptions and Maintenance Act, (78 of 1956), or in a proceeding under Section 125 of the Code of Criminal Procedure, 1973, (Act 2 of 1974) or under corresponding Section 488 of the Code of Criminal Procedure, (5 of 1898), a decree or order, as the case may be, has been passed against the husband awarding maintenance to the wife notwithstanding that she was living apart and that since the passing of such decree or order, cohabitation between the parties has not been resumed for one year or upwards;or (iv) that her marriage (whether consummated or not) was solemnized before she attained the age of fifteen years and she has repudiated the marriage after attaining that age but before attaining the age of eighteen years. Explanation.- This clause applies whether the marriage was solemnized before or after the commencement of the Marriage Law (Amendment) Act, 1976. *13-A. Alternate Relief in Divorce Proceedings.-* If any proceeding under this Act, on a petition for dissolution of marriage by a decree of divorce, except in so far as the petition is founded on the grounds mentioned in clauses (ii), (vi) and (vii) of sub-section (1) of Section 13, the court may, if it considers it just so to do having regard to the circumstances of the case, pass instead a decree for judicial separation. *13-B. Divorce by mutual consent.-*(1) Subject to the provisions of this Act a petition for dissolution of marriage by a decree of divorce may be presented to the District Court by both the parties to a marriage together, whether such marriage was solemnized before or after the commencement of the Marriage Laws (Amendment) Act, 1976, on the ground that they have been living separately for a period of one year or more, that they have not been able to live together and that they have mutually agreed that the marriage should be dissolved. (2) On the motion of both the parties made earlier than six months after the date of the presentation of the petition referred to in sub-section (1) and not later than eighteen months after the said date, if the petition is not withdrawn in the mean time, the Court shall, on being satisfied, after hearing the parties and after making such inquiry as it thinks fit, that a marriage has been solemnized and that the averments in the petition are true, pass a decree of divorce declaring the marriage to be dissolved with effect from the date of the decree. *14. No petition for divorce to be presented within one year of marriage.- *(1) Notwithstanding anything contained in this Act, it shall not be competent for any Court to entertain any petition for dissolution of marriage by a decree of divorce, unless at the date of the presentation of the petition one year has elapsed since the date of the marriage: Provided that the court may, upon application made to it in accordance with such rules as may be made by the High Court in that behalf, allow a petition to be presented before one year has elapsed since the date of the marriage on the ground that the case is one of exceptional hardship to the petitioner or of exceptional depravity on the part of the respondent, but, if it appears to the court at the hearing of the petition that petitioner obtained leave to present the petition by any mis-representation or concealment of the nature of the case, the court may, if it pronounces a decree, do so subject to the condition that the decree shall not have effect until after the expiry of one year from the date of the marriage or may dismiss the petition without prejudice to any petition which may be brought after the expiration of the said one year upon the same or substantially the same facts as those alleged in support of the petition so dismissed. (2) In disposing of any application under this section for leave to present a petition for divorce before the expiration of one year from the date of the marriage, the court shall have regard to the interests of any children of the marriage and to the question whether there is a reasonable probability of a reconciliation between the parties before the expiration of the said one year. *15. Divorced persons. When may marry again.*- When a marriage has been dissolved by a decree of divorce and either there is no right of appeal against the decree or, if there is such a right of appeal, the time for appealing has expired without an appeal having been presented, or an appeal has been presented but has been dismissed, it shall be lawful for either party to the marriage to marry again. * 16. Legitimacy of children of void and voidable marriages.- * (1) Notwithstanding that a marriage is null and void under Section 11, any child of such marriage who would have been legitimate if the marriage had been valid, shall be legitimate, whether such a child is born before or after the commencement of the Marriage Laws (Amendment) Act, 1976, and whether or not a decree of nullity is granted in respect of the marriage under this Act and whether or not the marriage is held to be void otherwise than on a petition under this Act. (2) Where a decree of nullity is granted in respect of a voidable marriage under Section 12, any child begotten or conceived before the decree is made, who would have been the legitimate child of the parties to the marriage if at the date of the decree it had been dissolved instead of being annulled, shall be deemed to be their legitimate child notwithstanding the decree of nullity. (3) Nothing contained in sub-section (1) or sub-section (2) shall be construed as conferring upon any child of a marriage which is null and void or which is annulled by a decree of nullity under Section 12, any rights in or to the property of any person, other than the parents, in any case, where, but for the passing of this Act, such child would have been incapable of possessing or acquiring any such rights by reason of his not being the legitimate child of his parents. *17. Punishment of Bigamy.- *Any marriage between two Hindus solemnized after the commencement of this Act is void if at the date of such marriage either party had a husband or wife living; and the provisions of Sections 494 and 495 of the Indian Penal Code (45 of 1860) shall apply accordingly. *18. Punishment for contravention of certain other conditions for a Hindu marriage.*- Every person who procures a marriage of himself or herself or to be solemnized under this Act in contravention of the conditions specified in clauses (iii), (iv), and (v) of Section 5 shall be punishable- (a) in the case of a contravention of the condition specified in clause (iii) of Section 5, with simple imprisonment which may extend to fifteen days, or with fine which may extend to one thousand rupees, or with both; (b) in the case of a contravention of the condition specified in clause (iv) or clause (v) of Section 5, with simple imprisonment which may extend to one month, or with fine which may extend to one thousand rupees, or with both; (c) Clause (c) omitted by Act 2 of 1978. * * * * *Jurisdiction and Procedure* * * *19. Court to which petition shall be presented-* Every petition under this Act shall be presented to the District Court within the local limits of whose ordinary original civil jurisdiction: (i) the marriage was solemnized, or (ii) the respondent, at the time of the presentation of the petition, resides, or (iii) the parties to the marriage last resided together, or (iv) the petitioner is residing at the time of the presentation of the petition, in a case where the respondent is at that time, residing outside the territories to which this Act extends, or has not been heard of as being alive for a period of seven years or more by those persons who would naturally have heard of him if he were alive. *20. Contents and verification of Petitions.-*(1) Every petition presented under this Act shall state as distinctly as the nature of the case permits the facts on which the claims to relief is founded and, except in a petition under Section 11, shall also state that there is no collusion between the petitioner and the other party to the marriage. (2) The statements contained in every petition under this Act shall be verified by the petitioner or some other competent person in the manner required by law for the verification of plaints, and may, at the hearing, be referred to as evidence. *21. Application of Act 5 of 1908.- *Subject to the other provisions contained in this Act and to such rules as the High Court may make in this behalf all proceedings under this Act shall be regulated, as far as may be, by the Code of Civil Procedure, 1908. *21-A. Power to transfer petitions in certain cases.-*(1)Where- (a) a petition under this Act has been presented to a District Court having jurisdiction by a party to marriage praying for a decree for a judicial separation under Section 10 or of a decree of divorce under Section 13; and (b) another petition under this Act has been presented thereafter by the other party to the marriage praying for a decree for judicial separation under Section 10 or for a decree of divorce under Section 13 on any ground, whether in the same District Court or in a different District Court, in the same State or in a different State, the petitions shall be dealt with as specified in sub-section (2). (2) In a case where sub-section (1) applies,- (a) if the petitions are presented to the same District Court, both the petitions shall be tried and heard together by that District Court; (b) if the petition are presented to different District Courts, the petition presented later shall be transferred to the District Court in which the earlier petition was presented and both the petitions shall be heard and disposed of together by the district court in which the earlier petition was presented. (3) In a case where clause (b) of sub-section (2) applies, the court or the Government, as the case may be, competent under the Code of Civil Procedure, 5 of 1908 to transfer any suit or proceeding from this District Court in which the later petition has been presented to the district court in which the earlier petition is pending, shall exercise its powers to transfer such later petition as if it had been empowered so to do under the said Code. *21-B. Special provision relating to trial and disposal of petitions under the Act.-*(1) The trial of a petition under this Act, shall, so far as is practicable consistently with the interests of justice in respect of the trial, be continued from day to day until its conclusion unless the Court finds the adjournment of the trial beyond the following day to be necessary for reasons to be recorded. (2) Every petition under this Act shall be tried as expeditiously as possible, and endeavour shall be made to conclude the trial within six months from the date of service of notice of the petition on the respondent. (3) Every appeal under this Act shall be heard as expeditiously as possible, and endeavour shall be made to conclude the hearing within three months from the date of service of notice of appeal on the respondent. *21.-C. Documentary evidence.*- Notwithstanding anything in any enactment to the contrary, no document shall be inadmissible in evidence in any proceeding at the trial of a petition under this Act on the ground that it is not duly stamped or registered. *22. Proceedings to be in camera and may not be printed or published.-*(1) Every proceedings under this Act shall be conducted in camera and it shall not be lawful for any person to print or publish any matter in relation to any such proceeding except a judgment of the High Court or of the Supreme Court printed or published with the previous permission of the Court. (2) If any person prints or publishes any matter in contravention of the provisions contained in sub-section (1), he shall be punishable with fine which may extend to one thousand rupees. *23. Decree in proceedings.-*(1) In any proceeding under this Act, whether defended or not, if the Court is satisfied that- (a) any of the grounds for granting relief exists and the petitioner except in cases where the relief is sought by him on the grounds specified in sub-clause (a), sub-clause (b) and sub-clause (c) of clause (ii) of Section 5 is not any way taking advantage of his or her own wrong or disability for the purpose of such relief, and (b) where the ground of the petition is the ground specified in clause (i) of sub-section (1) of Section 13, the petitioner has not in any manner been accessory to or connived at or condoned the act or acts complained of, or where the ground or the petition is cruelty the petitioner has not in any manner condoned the cruelty, and (bb) when a divorce is sought on the ground of mutual consent, such consent has not been obtained by force, fraud or undue influence, and (c) the petition not being a petition presented under section 11 is not presented or prosecuted in collusion with the respondent, and (d) there has not been any unnecessary or improper delay in instituting the proceeding, and (e) there is no other legal ground why relief should not be granted, then,and in such a case, but not otherwise, the court shall decree such relief accordingly. (2) Before proceeding to grant any relief under this Act, it shall be the duty of the Court in the first instance, in every case where it is possible so to do consistently with the nature and circumstances of the case, to make every endeavour to bring about a reconciliation between the parties: Provided that nothing contained in this sub-section shall apply to any proceeding wherein relief is sought on any of the grounds specified in clause (ii), clause (iii), clause (iv), clause (v), clause (vi) or clause (vii), of sub-section (1) of Section 13. (3) For the purpose of aiding the Court in bringing about such reconciliation, the court may, if the parties so desire or if the Court thinks it just and proper so to do adjourn the proceedings for a reasonable period not exceeding fifteen days and refer the matter to any person named by the parties in this behalf or to any person nominated by the Court if the parties fail to name any person, with directions to report to the Court as to whether reconciliation can be and has been effected and the court shall in disposing of the proceeding have due regard to the report. (4) In every case where a marriage is dissolved by a decree of divorce, the court passing the decree shall give a copy thereof free of cost to each of the parties. * * * * *23-A. Relief for respondent in divorce and other proceedings.-* In any proceedings for divorce or judicial separation or restitution of conjugal rights, the respondent may not only oppose the relief sought on the ground of petitioner's adultery, cruelty or desertion, but also make a counter-claim for any relief under this Act on that ground; and if the petitioner's adultery, cruelty or desertion is proved, the Court may give to the respondent any relief under this Act to which he or she would have been entitled if he or she had presented a petition seeking such relief on that ground. *24. Maintenance pendente lite and expenses of proceedings.-* Where in any proceeding under this Act it appears to the Court that either the wife or the husband, as the case may be, has no independent income sufficient for her or his support and the necessary expenses of the proceeding, it may, on the application of the wife or the husband, order the respondent to pay the petitioner the expenses of the proceeding such sum as, having regard to the petitioner's own income and the income of the respondent, it may seem to the Court to be reasonable. *25. Permanent alimony and maintenance.-*(1) Any court exercising jurisdiction under this Act may, at the time of passing any decree or at any time subsequent thereto, on application made to it for the purposes by either the wife or the husband, as the case may be, order that the respondent shall pay to the applicant for her or his maintenance and support such gross sum or such monthly or periodical sum for a term not exceeding the life of the applicant as, having regard to the respondent's own income and other property of the applicant, the conduct of the parties and other circumstances of the case, it may seem to the Court to be just, and any such payment may be secured, if necessary, by a charge on the immoveable property of the respondent. (2) If the Court is satisfied that there is a change in the circumstances of either party at any time after it has made an order under sub-section (1), it may at the instance of either party, vary, modify or rescind any such order in such manner as the court may deem just. (3) If the Court is satisfied that the party in whose favour an order has been made under this Section has re-married or, if such party is the wife, that she has not remained chaste or if such party is the husband, that he has had sexual intercourse with any woman outside wedlock, it may at the instance of the other party vary, modify or rescind any such order in such manner as the court may deem just. *26. Custody of children.-* In any proceeding under this Act, the Court may, from time to time, pass such interim orders and make such provisions in the decree as it may deem just and proper with respect to the custody, maintenance and education of minor children, consistently with their wishes, wherever possible, and may, after the decree, upon application by petition for the purpose, make from time to time, all such orders and provisions with respect to the custody, maintenance and education of such children as might have been made by such decree or interim orders in case the proceedings for obtaining such decree were still pending, and the Court may also from time to time revoke, suspend or vary any such orders and provisions previously made. *27. Disposal of property.-*In any proceeding under this Act, the Court may make such provisions in the decree as it deems just and proper with respect to any property presented at or about the time of marriage, which may belong jointly to both the husband and the wife. *28. Appeals from decrees and orders.-*(1) All decrees made by Court in any proceeding under this Act shall, subject to the provisions of sub-section (3), be appealable as decrees of the Court made in the exercise of its original civil jurisdiction and every such appeal shall lie to the Court to which appeals ordinarily lie from the decisions of the Court given in the exercise of its original civil jurisdiction. (2) Orders made by the Court in any proceedings under this Act, under Section 25 or Section 26 shall, subject to the provisions of sub-section (3), be appealable if they are not interim orders and every such appeal shall lie to the Court to which appeals ordinarily lie from the decisions of the Court given in exercise of its original civil jurisdiction. (3) There shall be no appeal under this section on subject of costs only. (4) Every appeal under this section shall be preferred within a period of thirty days from the date of the decree or order. *28(A) Enforcement of decrees and orders.- *All decrees and orders made by the Court in any proceeding under this Act, shall be enforced in the like manner as the decrees and orders of the Court made in the exercise of its original civil jurisdiction for the time being enforced. *29. Savings.-*(1) A marriage solemnized between Hindus before the commencement of this Act, which is otherwise valid, shall not be deemed to be invalid or ever to have been invalid by reason only of the fact that the parties thereto belonged to the same gotra or pravara or belonged to different religion, castes or sub-divisions of the same caste. (2) Nothing contained in this Act shall be deemed to affect any right recognised by custom or conferred by any special enactment to obtain the dissolution of a Hindu Marriage, whether solemnized before or after the commencement of this Act. (3) Nothing contained in this Act shall affect any proceeding under any law for the time being in force for declaring any marriage to be null and void or for annulling or dissolving any marriage or for judicial, separation pending at the commencement of this Act, and any such proceeding may be continued and determined as if this Act had not been passed. (4) Nothing contained in this Act shall be deemed to effect the provisions contained in the Special Marriage Act, 1954 (43 of 1954), with respect to marriages between Hindus solemnized under that Act, whether before or after the commencement of this Act. *30. Repeals.- *(Repealed by the Repealing and Amendment Act, 1960 (58 of 1960), Sec. 2 and the First Schedule.) From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Aug 13 03:14:30 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:44:30 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] MNIC: Parliament Questions - 34 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908121444h1b22794avc3d61b3ff4b503c2@mail.gmail.com> http://164.100.47.132/LssNew/psearch/QResult13.aspx?qref=41375 GOVERNMENT OF INDIA MINISTRY OF CIVIL AVIATION LOK SABHA UNSTARRED QUESTION NO 7025 ANSWERED ON 13.05.2002 MISUSING OF AIRPORT IDENTITY CARDS BY IB OFFICIALS 7025 . Shri SURESH RAMRAO JADHAV (PATIL) (a) whether the officers of Bureau of Civil Aviation Security (BCAS) have recently found during the course of their inspection that some officers/employees of Intelligence Bureau posted at various airports are misusing their airport identity cards; (b) if so, the number of such cases which have came to light; and (c) the steps taken by the Government to check such misuse? ANSWER THE MINISTER OF CIVIL AVIATION ( SHRI SYED SHAHNAWAZ HUSSAIN ) (a) No, Sir. (b) & (c) Do not arise. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Aug 13 03:15:53 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:45:53 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] MNIC: Parliament Questions - 35 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908121445k180c1283vd917d1ecab54b52d@mail.gmail.com> http://164.100.47.132/LssNew/psearch/QResult13.aspx?qref=44938 GOVERNMENT OF INDIA MINISTRY OF LAW , JUSTICE AND COMPANY AFFAIRS LOK SABHA UNSTARRED QUESTION NO 7665 ANSWERED ON 16.05.2002 IDENTITY CARDS 7665 . Shri PADAMSEN CHAUDHARY ASHOK KUMAR PATEL (a) whether the Government propose to make the `multi-purpose identity cards` mandatory; (b) if so, the details thereof; and (c) the time by which a final decision is likely to be taken in this regard? ANSWER MINISTER OF LAW, JUSTICE & COMPANY AFFAIRS (SHRI ARUN JAITLEY) (a) to (c): The Election Commission had made the use of electors` photo identity cards, along with other forms of identification, compulsory for identification of voters during the General Elections to the Legislative Assemblies of Haryana, Kerala, Tamil Nadu, West Bengal and Pondicherry in 2001 and during the General Elections to the Legislative Assemblies of Manipur, Punjab, Uttaranchal and Uttar Pradesh held this year. The scheme to issue photo-identity cards to electors is a continuous and ongoing process (excepting for a brief period between the last date for filing nomination and completion of electoral process) on account of more number of persons becoming eligible for the right of franchise on attaining the age of 18 years as also due to movement of electors. From asad_abbasi at hotmail.com Thu Aug 13 04:51:59 2009 From: asad_abbasi at hotmail.com (asad abbasi) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 23:21:59 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] "A Home-grown Conflict" (Re: Balochistan) In-Reply-To: <700526.68282.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <700526.68282.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Kshmendra and All, This article rightly points out about the attrocities committed to Balouch people. However, i believe that Balouch leaders are as much responsible for current situation of Balochistan as are Pakistani leaders for the problems in Pakistan. It can be a classic case of Feudalism. Powerful balouch leaders were contend when Government was fulfilling their needs. They, at that point, did not care for betterment of Balochistan. But when these leaders were contested on political and personal issues they started talking about Nationalism and history of Balouch people. Balouch people have been denied facilities and utilities that most of urban civilians in Pakistan enjoy. As i see it, Balouch leaders at times (how small that period may be) had ability and power to change the fortunes of Balouchies but they didnt. It seems it was in their personal interest. To remain in power they kept Balouch people illeterate and uneducated. Nevertheless, Pakistan is responsible for all her citizens equally. To Keep some Feudal lords Pakistan wrongly makes policies that allows those feudal lords to form their own laws and states. No doubt situation is Balouchistan is home grown but Baloch leaders may have a role to play in it. Pakistan has to treat Balouchies as her responsibility because they are as much Pakistani as others living in that region. For that, Pakistan may have to make sure that regional interest of Balochistan are seen in national interest of Pakistan. Regards, Asad > Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 05:37:31 -0700 > From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > To: reader-list at sarai.net > Subject: [Reader-list] "A Home-grown Conflict" (Re: Balochistan) > > "Top Article: A Home-grown Conflict" > > Malik Siraj Akbar11 August 2009 > > When the first Baloch insurgency broke out in 1948 to resist the illegal and forceful annexation of the Baloch-populated autonomous Kalat state with Pakistan, Manmohan Singh - today Indian prime minister - was barely a teenager while his Pakistani counterpart Yousuf Raza Gilani had not even been born to witness the rebellion's magnitude. Yet, last month, both leaders in Sharm el-Sheikh discussed for the first time the indefatigable Baloch insurgency. > > Pakistan has been blaming India for causing trouble in its resource-rich province. Gilani broached the issue with India at a time disgruntled Baloch youth have removed the Pakistani flag from schools and colleges and stopped playing the national anthem. Punjabi officers refuse to serve in Balochistan, fearing they would be target-killed. Islamabad attributes the unrest to 'foreign involvement'. India is not the first to be blamed. Similar allegations were levelled in the past against the now defunct Soviet Union, Afghanistan and Iraq to discredit the indigenous movement for retaining a distinct Baloch identity. Indian assistance sounds ridiculous given that the Baloch do not share a border, common language, religion or history with India. Hardly has 1 per cent of Balochs have visited India. > > The idea of Pakistan never attracted the secular Baloch. Ghose Baksh Bizanjo, a Baloch leader, said in 1947: "It is not necessary that by virtue of our being Muslims we should lose our freedom... If the mere fact that we are Muslims requires us to join Pakistan, then Afghanistan and Iran... should also amalgamate with Pakistan." > > Over the years, Islamabad has applied a multi-pronged approach to deal with Balochista Apart from military operations launched in 1948, 1958, 1962, 1973 and 2002 to quash the rebellion, Islamabad adopted other tactics. First, it kept the province economically backward by denying it good infrastructure, mainly in education and health. Natural gas was discovered in Balochistan in 1951 and supplied to Punjab's industrial units. The Balochs hardly benefit from their own gas. > > Second, Balochs, whom the state views as traitors, were denied representation in the army, foreign services, federal departments, profitable corporations, Pakistan International Airlines, customs, railways and other key institutions. Third, Balochistan has historically been remote-controlled from Islamabad. A Pakistan army corps commander, often a Punjabi or a Pathan, and the inspector general of the Frontier Corps, a federal paramilitary force with less than 2 per cent Baloch representation, exert more power than the province's elected chief minister. The intelligence agencies devise election plans and decide who has to come to the provincial parliament and who should be ousted. > > Fourth, Islamabad has created a state of terror inside Balochistan. Hundreds of check posts have been established to harass people and restrict their movement. Forces and tanks are stationed even on campuses of universities. Fifth, national and international media are denied access to conflict zones in Balochistan. Several foreign journalists were beaten up supposedly by intelligence agencies personnel or deported when they endeavoured to report the actual situation. Sixth, international human rights organisations are denied access to trace the whereabouts of some 5,000 'missing persons'. Pakistan is also in a state of denial about the existence of around 2,00,000 internally displaced persons in Balochistan. > > Seventh, Islamabad has been engaged in systematic target killing of key Baloch democratic leaders. Ex-governor and chief minister of Balochistan, Nawab Akbar Bugti, 79, became a victim once he demanded Baloch rights. Balach Marri, a Balochistan Assembly member, was killed to undermine the movement. In April this year, three other prominent leaders were whisked away by security forces and subsequently killed. > > Eighth, Pakistan has pitted radical Taliban against secular and democratic Baloch forces. The state is brazenly funding thousands of religious schools across the province with the help of Arab countries to promote religious radicalisation. Elements supportive of Taliban were covertly helped by state institutions to contest and win general elections. They now enjoy sizeable representation in the Balochistan Assembly to legislate against the nationalists and secular forces. > > Ninth, Islamabad has been using sophisticated American weapons, provided to crush Taliban, against the Baloch people. This has provided breathing space to Taliban hidden in Quetta and weeded out progressive elements. Finally, Afghan refugees are being patronised to create a demographic imbalance in the Baloch-dominated province. > > Baloch leaders are critical of many democratic countries for not doing 'enough' to safeguard a democratic, secular Baloch people. I asked Bramdagh Bugti, a Baloch commander, about the India link. He laughed and said, "Would our people live amid such miserable conditions if we enjoyed support from India? We are an oppressed people... seeking help from India, the United States, the United Nations and the European Union to come for our rescue." > > The Baloch movement is rapidly trickling down from tribal chiefs to educated middle-class youth aggressively propagating their cause on Facebook and YouTube. This generation would understandably welcome foreign assistance but will not give up even if denied help from countries like India. The Baloch insist their struggle was not interrupted even at times when India and Pakistan enjoyed cordial relations. > > The writer is Balochistan bureau chief of Daily Times . > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Messenger: Thanks for 10 great years—enjoy free winks and emoticons. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 08:07:40 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:07:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 13 Message-ID: Source: The Hindu Date: June 20,2003 Link: http://www.hinduonnet.com/2003/06/20/stories/2003062000201000.htm Article: *The Baiga predicament * By Mihir Shah * The challenge is to empower the Adivasi people... so that a development path is forged under their leadership. * IT IS a tragic irony of 50 years of planned development that some of India's most resource-rich areas are home to its poorest people. Such as the Dindori district of south-eastern Madhya Pradesh. Most people wouldn't even have heard of the place as it does not exist on the development map of the country. Home to one of India's "primitive tribes", the Baigas, it has one of the richest Sal forests of the country, better known for the Kanha National Park. The Narmada and Mahanadi originate in the region. Verrier Elwin, the distinguished anthropologist who advised Jawaharlal Nehru, spent decades living among and studying the Baigas, while developing his ideas of tribal society and its possible future. I was there a few days ago to attend a *jan sunwayi* (public hearing) in my capacity as adviser to the National Commissioner appointed by the Supreme Court in the Right to Food case. With me were the economist, Jean Dreze, and the social thinker, Satish Saberwal. The *sunwayi* was organised by a unique new institution, the Baiga Mahapanchayat, which is trying to provide a voice to these unusually silent (literally) and unheard of people. It was held in a remote forest village, 250 km and 7 hours from Jabalpur, on what is a rocky road half the way. Some of these roads are not serviced by any kind of transport facility, public or private, and we made it there with great difficulty, risking a breakdown at any point. The Baigas spoke of their desperate living conditions, aggravated by three successive years of drought. Much of the problem is because these are "forest villages". Sarpanches from various gram panchayats complained that they were unable to carry out any kind of development activity in the absence of formal permission from the Forest Department. Till 40 years ago, the Baigas were "slash-and-burn" farmers. Once shifting cultivation was banned, their existence came under threat as no proper alternative was worked out. Most of them "occupy" land to which they have no unambiguous legal titles. And even after the passage of the 73rd amendment to the Constitution and the special PESA law empowering gram sabhas in Adivasi areas, the panchayats seem powerless here. Many Baiga women described the impossibility of obtaining foodgrains from ration shops, as the nearest outlet is at least 10 km away from their village. There were cases of non-payment of wages to labourers, even after years. Instances were also reported of irregularities in the mid-day meal scheme. At times, meals were not provided as teachers did not take regular classes. Some examples of blatant corruption came to light, such as PDS kerosene being sold in the open market and bribes asked for the appointment of anganwadi workers. The most serious complaint was probably that of Baiga houses being broken down by field staff of the Forest Department. We questioned the officials who attended the hearing about each complaint. Following special directions from the Chief Minister, the Additional Commissioner, the Collector, the Conservator of Forests, the Divisional Forest Officer, the Inspector-General of Police and the Superintendent of Police were present. The Collector was not aware that on May 3, 2003, the Supreme Court, in a landmark interim order in the Right to Food case, made all primitive tribes automatically eligible for Antyodaya cards. This entitles them to rice at Rs. 3 per kg. He promised to complete the process of issuing these cards to each Baiga family by the end of this month. The district administration, along with the Conservator of Forests, also undertook to facilitate opening of many more PDS outlets so that there is a ration shop within a 5 sq km radius of every village. The authorities were directed to display prominently the orders of the Supreme Court in all the schools, PDS outlets, gram panchayats and block offices throughout Dindori district. We were assured that each and every one of the specific complaints would be redressed within a short period of time. The Baiga Mahapanchayat will actively engage in follow-up to ensure that this actually takes place. The pressure exerted by the Supreme Court process will probably help facilitate its efforts. The dire predicament of the Baigas, however, remains. While they have assiduously maintained their cultural identity, their music, norms and customs, probably more than any other Adivasi community outside of the north-east, they are constrained to engage with a welter of institutions erected by the state. None more difficult than the Forest Department, with whose field officers they have come to share a deeply antagonistic relationship. But isolationism, however attractive, is no longer an option. Already in the 1950s, the compassionate Elwin himself rejected it. Today, with growing market penetration, this is a hopelessly romantic and defeatist alternative. Actually, it is hard to imagine an area with greater potential for sustainable development, building on its natural resources. The region gets over 1,200 mm of average annual rainfall. The undulating topography affords excellent opportunities for local rainwater harvesting. There are many perennial tributaries of the Narmada that offer exciting possibilities for community-based lift irrigation. The forest is rich with plants of great economic value. We were told of 12 different varieties of mushrooms. And the Baigas have a strong tradition of herbal medicine. There has been no dearth of financial allocations by the State either. In view of their special constitutional status, a separate Baiga Development Authority has been set up with an annual budget running into several crores of rupees. But this money has obviously gone down the drain and only lined the pockets of various intermediaries. The people remain among the poorest in the country. Sixty per cent of the district area is cultivated, but of this, in a land of plentiful water, a mere half-a-per cent is irrigated. The problem is that for six decades now, we have produced development models and created institutions without the involvement of the local people at any stage. The Forest Department fails to acknowledge that without the active engagement of the Adivasis, it will prove impossible to protect the precious forest resources of the region. We estimated that to meet the very basic wood requirements of the Adivasis for fuel, housing and agricultural implements, it takes less than 5 per cent of the forest wealth of the region. If this were guaranteed to them as a right they would actively participate in protecting the forest. But what prevails even today is the "dictatorship of subordinate officials" as Elwin described it in a famous article in 1960. Resulting in endless strife between the Adivasis and the Forest Department. The challenge is to empower the Adivasi people who constitute 70 per cent of Dindori district so that a development path is forged under their leadership to extend the huge natural resource advantage of the area. To enable people to exercise effective vigil on development programmes and gain rightful access to their entitlements. To utilise the spaces opened up for them by the Gram Swaraj legislation. And occupy positions of strength in their dealings with external markets. Preserving their cultural identity while doing each of these. This is certainly a huge ask but a sign of hope in this direction, albeit incipient, is the emergence of the Baiga Mahapanchayat. Will this fledgling institution receive the kind of support it requires, so that it can forge ahead while maintaining its strength and integrity? From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 08:33:27 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:33:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 13 Message-ID: Source : The Hindu Date: Jun 23, 2002 Link: http://www.hinduonnet.com/mag/2002/06/23/stories/2002062300010100.htm Article: * Fighting hunger: Know-how to do-how * The fact that India has not contributed to realising the World Food Summit goal of reducing the number of the hungry and malnourished is a matter of concern, as there are no political, economic or technological excuses for this, says eminent agricultural scientist Dr. M.S. SWAMINATHAN, who delivered the keynote address at the WFS held in Italy recently. He now proposes a five-step approach to ending hunger. THE World Food Summit (WFS) convened by the Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO) in Rome in 1996 resolved to bring down the number of hungry and malnourished from 816 million in 1990-92 to 408 million by 2015. This involves reducing the number of undernourished people by 22 million every year. This year, a meeting of Heads of States and Governments and Ministers for Agriculture was convened by the FAO in Rome from June 10-13, to review the progress made since 1996 in achieving the targets set at the WFS. The survey at the "WFS — Five Years Later" meeting in Rome indicated that the actual achievement in hunger reduction was only six million per year. Over 200 million people or 28 per cent of the entire population of Africa were found to be chronically hungry. And, 24,000 children, women and men die every day due to hunger related causes. The world population will be over seven billion by 2015 and hence the estimates of WFS 1996 will have to be suitably adjusted upward, taking into account the increase in human numbers. The task before the "WFS — Five Years Later" meeting was to understand why the very modest target set in 1996 has not been achieved. Both in 1996 and now, civil society organisations (CSO) held parallel conferences and issued separate declarations. In 1996 the CSO declaration was titled "Profit for Few or Food for All". The 2002 CSO Forum declaration stressed that food sovereignty, right to food and agro-ecological models for agriculture are the key elements for any strategy towards ending hunger and malnutrition. This declaration further pointed out that "genetically modified organisms (GMO's) represent a threat to family farmers, other food producers, the integrity of genetic resources and human and environment health. It will affect particularly the rural poor, who cannot afford this costly alternative". The official WFS Plus Five declaration titled "International Alliance Against Hunger" urged concerted action to fulfil the 1996 commitments and stated, "we are committed to study, share and facilitate the responsible use of biotechnology in addressing development needs". The official participants in the Rome Plus Five meeting were largely Ministers of Food and Agriculture and senior government officials. The participating Heads of State or Government were mostly from countries in Africa. OECD countries were mostly represented at the level of Agriculture Ministers or Senior officials, excepting Spain as well as Italy whose Prime Minister served as the Chair of the Conference. In addition to chronic protein-energy malnutrition caused by poverty, two billion people in the developing countries, many of them women and children, suffer from hidden hunger caused by one or more micronutrient deficiencies, like a lack of iron, iodine or Vitamin A. Currently 34 countries are experiencing severe food shortage, the most seriously affected being countries in Southern Africa as well as Afghanistan and North Korea. Developing countries are likely to spend over £23 billion this year for import of cereals, largely from rich nations. Women and children are the worst sufferers. A special session dealing with this issue, stressed the need for implementing in letter and spirit the provisions of Article 14 of the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW) adopted in 1979 by the United Nations General Assembly. This will involve providing equal access to and control of natural and productive resources and the full participation of rural women in policy making at all levels and throughout development activities. The African Heads of State or Government identified civil strife and ethnic wars, debt burden, trade barriers resulting in lack of market access, incidence of HIV/AIDS and drought as the principal causes for the widespread persistence of hunger. African leaders resolved to strengthen the recently formed "The New Partnership for Africa's Development" (NEPAD) in order to promote a Marshall Plan kind of revitalisation of African economies. How far their hope for substantial additional development assistance from rich nations will be forthcoming, remains to be seen. Between 1900 and 2000, concessional assistance from developed countries and loans from the international financing institutions fell by 50 per cent for agriculture. At the same time, the OECD countries increased farm subsidies to more than £300 billion, amounting to £12,000 (Rs. 5,88,000) per farmer per year. The assistance given by OECD countries to farmers in developing countries works out to £6 (Rs. 294) per farmer. The recently approved U.S. Farm Bill envisages a substantial increase in the subsidies given to U.S. farmers. Thus, agriculture in the rich nations is supported by heavy inputs of subsidy, capital and technology. There is, hence, no level playing field in global agricultural trade. The President of the European Commission, Mr. Romano Prodi, announced that by the end of 2006, European Union (E.U.) official development aid will be raised to an overall rate of 0.39 per cent of GDP. This is in contrast to the target of 0.7 per cent set by the U.N. nearly two decades ago. He also announced that the E.U. will try to improve market access to the farm products of developing countries. THE FAO has prepared a comprehensive Anti-Hunger Programme involving an additional investment of £24 billion annually. This amount is equivalent to 2.5 per cent of the subsidies paid to farmers in OECD countries. The FAO programme aims to address both hunger today as well as sustained progress in agricultural and rural development. The FAO also presented an analysis of the progress made by different developing countries in achieving the WFS goals. China led the countries which had achieved the largest reduction in the population of under-nourished between 1990-92 and 1997-99. Others in the category of achievers included Ghana, Kuwait, Mozambique, Peru, Thailand and Vietnam. The worst performing nations include Congo, Cuba, Guatemala, Iraq, North Korea, Somalia, Tanzania and Venezuela. Out of the 116 million children, women and men saved from the hunger trap between 1990-92 and 1997-99, 76 million are from China. Unfortunately, the number of undernourished increased by 11 million during the same period in India, inspite of substantial grain reserves with the Government of India. This should be a cause for alarm and serious introspection, since more attention is being given now to enhancing agricultural exports than to ending endemic hunger. The policies adopted by China in achieving speedily the goal of food for all and for ever involved priority to rural and agricultural development and to on-farm and non-farm employment. China's policy of a rural and agricultural development based economic growth strategy has obviously paid rich dividends in terms of human nutrition and well being. The fact that India has not contributed to realising the WFS goal of reducing the number of persons going to bed hungry is a matter for national shame. There is no political, economic or technological excuse for this situation. Our Prime Minister had announced last year that India should be hunger-free by August 15, 2007 which marks the 60th anniversary of our independence. In my view, this goal is achievable, if we take the following steps. *I. A whole-life cycle approach to ending hunger: * We should provide immediately a horizontal dimension to the numerous vertically structured nutrition intervention programmes currently in operation by adopting a whole life cycle approach to nutrition security. The different steps in such a life cycle approach are the following. a. Pregnant mothers: Overcoming maternal and foetal under- and mal-nutrition is an urgent task, since nearly 30 per cent of the children born in India are characterised by low birth weight (LBW), with the consequent risk of impaired brain development. LBW is a proxy indicator of the low status of women in society, particularly of their health and nutrition status during their entire lifecycle. b. Nursing mothers: Appropriate schemes will be necessary to enable mothers to breast feed their babies for at least six months, as recommended by the World Health Organisation (WHO). Policies at work places, including the provision of appropriate support services should be conducive to achieving this goal. c. Infants (0-2 years) Special efforts will have to be made to reach this age group through their mothers, since they are the most unreached at present. Eighty per cent of brain development is completed before the age of two. The first four months in a child's life is particularly critical, since the child is totally dependent on its mother for food and survival. d. Preschool children (2-6 years) The on-going integrated child development service, if implemented properly, will help to cater to the nutritional and health care needs of this age group. e. Youth (6 to 20 years) A nutrition based Noon Meal programme in all schools (public and private and rural and urban) will help to improve the nutritional status of this group. However, a significant percentage of children belonging to this age group are not able to go to school due to economic reasons. Such school "push-outs" or child labourers need, special attention. f. Adults (20 to 60 years) Apart from the sale of subsidised grain, the major approach has been Food for Work programme. In designing a Nutrition Compact for this age group, persons working in the organised and unorganised sectors will have to be dealt with separately. Also, the intervention programmes will have to be different for men and women taking into account the multiple burden on a woman's daily life. g. Old and infirm persons: This group will have to be provided with appropriate nutritional support, as part of the ethical obligations of society towards the handicapped. The above whole-life cycle approach to Nutrition Security will help to ensure that the nutritional needs of everyone in the community and at every stage in an individual's life, are satisfied. Such an integrated approach is being introduced on a pilot basis in a few districts of Tamil Nadu, under the Malnutrition-free Tamil Nadu programme. *II. Community Food Banks: * * *Community Food Banks (CFB) can be started at the village level, with initial food supplies coming as a grant from Government and the World Food Programme. Later, such CFBs can be sustained through local purchases and from continued Government and international support for Food for Eco-development and Food for Nutrition programmes. The CFB can be the entry point to not only bridging the nutritional divide, but also for fostering social and gender equity, ecology and employment. They can also be equipped to cater to emergencies like cyclones, floods, drought and earthquakes. CFB's can be operated by self-help groups under the oversight of the *Gram Sabha *and can become powerful instruments of local level food security, involving low transaction and transport costs. *III. National Food Guarantee Scheme: * *A Food Guarantee Scheme (FGS) *needs to be introduced on a national scale on the model of the Employment Guarantee scheme of Maharashtra. It is unlikely that this will involve at present the allocation of more than 10 million tonnes of food grains per year. The Government of India is planning a *Food for Greening India *programme bearing the name of Jayaprakash Narain. This scheme can be developed on the model of a Food Guarantee Scheme, which can ensure the speedy end of chronic hunger. *IV. Sustaining and strengthening agricultural progress: * * *In a predominantly agricultural country like ours, agricultural progress serves as the most effective safety net against hunger and deprivation. There is need for intensifying our efforts to improve agricultural productivity, quality and income. An urgent need in this area is the strengthening of institutional structures which can help to confer on small and marginal farmers the ecological and economic benefits of scale at both the production and post-harvest phases of farming. The following are some of the institutional structures whose reach has to be extended. (*See table*) Without socially relevant and beneficial institutional structures, the extrapolation domain of successful experiences and development efforts will remain limited. *V. Management of Change: * * * Finally, we should set up without further delay so that the central and state levels *Multi-Stakeholders' Consortia for the Management of Change in Agriculture*. Such consortia should include representatives of CSOs, women's and consumer groups, farmers' associations, academia, business and industry and the mass media, in addition to the government departments concerned. The following changes need priority. *Technology* with particular reference to the application of biotechnology and genetic modification *Ecology*, with attention to land, water, biodiversity, forests and climate. *Trade* with special reference to the World Trade Agreement in Agriculture, sanitary and phyto sanitary measures and food safety standards. Time is not in our favour. We cannot afford the luxury of never-ending debates, but should create institutional structures which can help to promote consensus in areas of vital concern to our agricultural future. Since the establishment of the FAO in 1945, billions of pages of analysis on hunger have been written. Every conference organised at a cost of millions of dollars ends with a plea for converting words into action. If we heed the advice given 2000 years ago by the Roman farmer Varro and the Roman philosopher Seneca, then we will not be discussing hunger but will be living in a hunger-free world. "Agriculture is a science which teaches us what crops should be planted in each kind of soil, and what operations are to be carried out, in order that the *land may produce the highest yields in perpetuity.*" — Varro "A hungry person listens neither to reason nor cares for justice, nor is bent by any prayers." Seneca *The writer is the chairman of the M.S. Swaminathan Research Foundation. He has worked for the past 45 years with scientists and policy makers on a wide range of problems in basic and applied plant genetics as well as in agricultural research and development.* From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 08:46:30 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:46:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 13 Message-ID: Source : Frontline Link: *http://www.flonnet.com/fl2317/stories/20060908001705200.htm* ------------------------------ *Vol:23 Iss:17* Article: *DEPRIVATION* * Starving childhoods * ANNIE ZAIDI & PHOTOGRAPHS A.M. FARUQUI * Hunger-related deaths among children continue to afflict the tribal population of Sheopur. * "THE tribals need to change their attitude and lifestyle," said R.K. Dixit, the Chief Medical Health Officer (CMHO) of Sheopur district in Madhya Pradesh, in response to a query about continuing reports of children starving to death in the region. The Sahariyas, one of the poorest tribal communities in Madhya Pradesh, live mostly in remote villages with little access to health care. Undoubtedly, they would like to change their lifestyle - to begin with, they would like to eat two square meals a day. Since *Frontline* reported 13 hunger-related deaths in Patalgarh village in February 2005, there have been similar deaths in at least two of the four villages this correspondent visited this year in the same district. But, just like last year, local officials continue to seek refuge in denial. They deny that acute hunger is a problem. They insist that existing government schemes are being implemented properly. They deny that anything more could have been done. Hunger deaths are a sore spot with officials in Sheopur. Bring up the subject and official responses range from "it is their culture" to "they don't care about children dying; they have so many that they don't even remember" to "they're accustomed to hunger now" or "it wasn't really starvation... maybe some underlying malnutrition". When he was asked for the total number of malnourished children in the district, Dixit told this correspondent to consult the civil surgeon. The civil surgeon's office was found locked. Not so remote, but starving Karrai village in Karahal block was in the news recently after five children died. When *Frontline* visited the village, its residents spoke of seven deaths in July. Kishen's three-year-old daughter, Karan's four-year-old son, Heera's three-year-old son, Ramhit's one-year-old son, Laddoo's infant daughter, Jagram's seven-year-old daughter, Harvilas' one-year-old son. All of them appeared to have succumbed to fevers, coughs, measles, or something else that they did not know the name of. But looking at the surviving children's distended bellies, protruding eyes and wasted limbs, there can be little doubt as to what, at root, is wrong with their health. Two other children were dangerously sick and were hospitalised at Sheopur. Hari Sahariya's son Gajraj and daughter Ramdhara are both very fragile, but at least they are alive. Hari told *Frontline*: "I stayed for 10 days at the big district hospital. But there was no money. The children were fed, but not us. How could we have stayed on longer?" Hari does not know what is wrong with his children, but the medicines prescribed offer a clue - they are all vitamin or mineral supplements. It seems that all the children needed was better food. Karrai is not particularly remote. The village is barely two minutes from the main highway. It even has a health centre, an anganwadi and a school. When asked if the school gives mid-day meals regularly, a student, Chatru, nodded uncertainly. "Sometimes, yes. When the master comes, there is food. The master comes after every two days." The smallest children get a fistful of *panjeeri* (a roasted mixture of corn, soya, sugar and oil) at the anganwadi centre every day. But infants who are too small to eat are particularly vulnerable. Draupadi, a mother with a baby in her arms, said, "What can these little ones eat? If we eat, they'll drink some milk." Several newborns go hungry since the mothers have not eaten, and mothers are forced to keep the babies alive by making them lick a little jaggery. The other problem with the way the anganwadis handle malnutrition is that the registers are not maintained properly. The worker does not seem to know precisely how old the child is and therefore cannot judge how severe its condition is. Usually, malnutrition is measured against a chart balancing height and weight parameters; but because malnourished children are often stunted, it becomes impossible to assess whether they weigh enough unless age is taken into account. However, there are few birth registrations and the people, being illiterate, do not keep personal records. It is very important, under the circumstances, that the anganwadis keep a record of birth along with that of height and weight gain. Uma Chaturvedi, a fellow with the Right to Food campaign who has been working in Sheopur for two years, says this is a significant problem: "The anganwadi registers are ill-kept. The weight and grade [of malnutrition, which is judged in grades of severity from 1 to 4] columns are often left blank; many column entries are completely bizarre. For instance, there was one entry in the name of Priti, daughter of Ghamandi. Between February 2003 and December 2004, the child was given seven different dates of birth. Between December 2004 and June 2005, no entries were made at all. How can one child be born seven times and how can she grow younger as time passes? How will you judge her level of malnourishment correctly then?" Uma Chaturvedi found at least 20 such cases of bungled age entries in the anganwadi centre of one tiny hamlet, Kishanpura. According to officials, the anganwadi centres alone cannot be blamed for they are not equipped to deal with hunger on such a large scale. Sheopur's ICDS (Integrated Child Development Services) officer O.P. Pande told * Frontline*: "We are supposed to provide supplementary nutrition. For example, we can give about 300 calories worth, of the total requirement of 1,200. But if the child is entirely dependent on this small supplementary meal, it is bound to be malnourished." Nevertheless, one cannot ignore the fact that in some villages, anganwadi services are either absent or only partially functional. In Patalgarh, despite assurances and visits from officials, the villagers say that at least eight children have died since the 13 deaths reported in February 2005. It was only in May that the village got a functional anganwadi centre. The village still has no midwife, no medicines and no nurse; the anganwadi worker does not have the skill or resources to help with deliveries or provide pre-natal care to women. There is one male "multi-purpose" health worker in the area, but he is responsible for three panchayats and would not be able to assist in childbirths anyway. The result is that many children die as soon as they are born, while mothers frequently die during childbirth. Gokul's wife Bhagwati died on the road while he was trying to get her to a hospital 70 kilometres away on his bicycle. The newborn baby died as well. Gokul is now left to care for three other young children and his aged mother. In another such case, a woman called Kalli was saved with great difficulty. Right to Food activists happened to be in the village when she was in labour and managed to take her to the district hospital in a car. Recently, residents of the village signed an affidavit complaining of misbehaviour by district officials. When Kalli's newborn died and her life seemed to be in danger, they called up the CMHO, the District Collector and the Deputy Collector of the block, asking for a car or an ambulance to be sent urgently. The then CMHO allegedly told them that if they could not make it to the hospital, they could not hope to get medical assistance. The (former) Collector allegedly hung up on them. The SDM claimed to have sent a vehicle but it never arrived; later, when they confronted him with this fact, he allegedly told them not to talk back. Patalgarh has other problems to contend with. Under the National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme (NREGS), the villagers were given the work of digging and building roads. Almost all families have job cards. According to the entries on the cards, many families have already got more than 100 days of work over the last three months, though most of them have worked for between three and seven days only. But with mechanical regularity, the cards proclaim that the card-holders worked for six days a week, week after week. Santosh Sahariya, who is literate, says that he worked for only six days but his card mentions 36 days. Besides, he was engaged in digging a pond, while his card entries claim that he worked on road construction. Residents say their cards were taken away by the `contractor', sometimes without their permission, and the entries were made without their knowledge. Most of them are illiterate and do not know what the cards say. When questioned about these fake entries, the district panchayat chief, Shyam Singh, told *Frontline* that he had visited the village along with the Collector and no such problem had been mentioned. He added that a lot of people worked on both projects, the pond and the road, working through the day. When it was pointed out that the villagers denied having worked more than a few days, he said, "Come back with an appointment." When asked if it would be possible to obtain a list of all NREGS projects currently under way in the district, he said, "Ask the Collector." The Collector, M.S. Bhilala, was not available for comment. The problem of hunger is, of course, directly linked to the problem of acute poverty, ration distribution and employment guarantee. Madhya Pradesh has a dubious record there. Food and Civil Supplies Minister Gopal Bhargava recently went on record as saying that at least 54 per cent of the BPL (below poverty line) ration cards in the State had been found to be fraudulent and fresh cards would have to be issued. The new list that was drawn up and implemented this year (based on a 1998 survey) seems completely irrational. Many poor families have been struck off the list. In Rohni village, for instance, only four families have been given yellow ration cards, which certify them as being BPL. Gaya Khushwah, for instance, is a landless widow. She is not certain how old she is, but looks older than 80. Her ration card, however, mentions her age as 40. She gets neither the old-age pension nor the widow's pension and now her name has been struck off the BPL list. Radha, another landless widow who must also be at least 80 years old, has been struck off the list too. Some old people did not have ration cards at all, and most of the families did not have job cards or health cards either. One little step, not enough It is not as if the government is not making any attempts to tackle hunger and poverty. It introduced the Bal Shakti Yojana in August 2005. Under this scheme, if a severely malnourished child is brought to hospital, he/she can be admitted for up to 14 days and provided food worth Rs.15 every day, including high-protein soya biscuits and milk. In addition, the mother is also entitled to Rs.35 a day, to enable her to eat and stay with the child. She also gets Rs.100 as mobility (transport) allowance. The wards or centres for malnourished children are called Poshan Punarvas Kendras (Nutrition Rehabilitation Centres) and local officials have the freedom to take the help of local non-governmental organisations (NGOs) or community organisations to establish bigger centres with better facilities. In Sheopur, the first Nutrition Rehabilitation Centre has been set up in the district hospital, as a separate ward. Dixit said that it was launched on July 30 but so far no one to cook and so the children were being given soya biscuits and milk. He added that the mothers had been given Rs.100 on admission. Meanwhile, the department is talking to a local organisation but appears to be waiting for it to get formally registered as an NGO, before a kitchen can be made functional. However, it seems that rules are being violated at the very outset. Gulbai Bheel brought her sick one-year-old daughter Leela from Madanpur village. She did not get any money upon arrival, nor was she told that she was entitled to Rs.35 a day as food allowance. Gulbai had not eaten all day, nor had any of the three other women who had arrived at the hospital the day before. The fathers who brought their children had not eaten either, and nobody seemed to know whether they were entitled to a food allowance. Sheopur might take a leaf out of neighbouring Shivpuri district's book. Shivpuri, which also has a large tribal population with a serious malnourishment problem, was the first district in the State to start implementing the Bal Shakti Yojana and has already got four Nutrition Rehabilitation Centres in place. The Collector, Dr. Manohar Agnani, told *Frontline*: "It has only been seven months and we cannot say that the effort is either complete or foolproof. Our capacity is 76 beds and by the most conservative estimate, there are about 3,137 severe cases in this district. We have catered to about 1,000 children already and are taking care to follow them up when they leave the hospital. We have surveys to monitor progress and we admit there are failures. For instance, despite our efforts, some of the Grade 4 children go back to their villages, and they cannot be brought down to grade 1 or 2; a few have even died. But slowly, we are building capacity and will have more centres in each block. The Gwalior Medical College is helping, UNICEF [United Nations Fund for Children] is helping and we get clothes or toys as donations for the children. We have also written to the State government recommending 70 recipes that can be tried at anganwadi centres, using ingredients that are available locally and are nutritious." The results of the eighth Bal Sanjivani campaign survey (2006) are disturbing. In Madhya Pradesh, 49.21 per cent of the children were found malnourished, 0.91 per cent seriously so. That is well within the limit of 1 per cent set to be reached by 2007, but the figures are much worse for districts with large tribal populations. In Sheopur, which has the worst record, 57.68 per cent of the children are malnourished, of whom 2.59 per cent are severe cases. Madhya Pradesh also has the dubious distinction of being number one on the list as far as infant (less than a year old) mortality rates are concerned. There are 79 deaths for every thousand live births. In effect, this means that at least one lakh children die each year in this State alone. Child mortality rates (for children between ages one and five) are even higher, at 137 for every thousand. While disease and infection are among the reasons, malnutrition is an equally important factor. Every year, reports of starvation deaths trickle in from different parts of the State. Three cases were reported from Chhatarpur in the past fortnight. Earlier, one child died in Piprani and at least four died in Gadla village. None of these villages was particularly remote. There is no way of knowing how many might have died in villages to which there are no proper roads and where there are no telecommunication facilities. At present, the State of Madhya Pradesh sets aside only Rs.150 crores for feeding children at anganwadi centres, at the rate of Rs.2 daily for every child. Going by the 2001 Census, Madhya Pradesh has at least 1.06 crore children under the age of six. At least Rs.600 crores will be required to feed them all one small meal a day. Surely the situation calls for a bigger budget for the State's underfed children. * * From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 08:49:39 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:49:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 13 Message-ID: Source: The Hindu Date: Wednesday, Oct 19, 2005 Link: http://www.hinduonnet.com/2005/10/19/stories/2005101906630500.htm Article: *Hunger pangs in Adivasi houses * Special Correspondent * Survey reveals 99.8 p.c. households could not get two square meals even for one month * JAIPUR: A survey research on the situation of hunger in the tribal-dominated areas of Rajasthan has revealed that a shocking 99 per cent of the Adivasi households were facing chronic hunger. While the field survey was carried out in Udaipur and Dungarpur districts, nearly 48 persons had died of hunger and disease in 40 villages in Baran district during mid-July to mid-September this year. The New Delhi-based Centre for Environment and Food Security (CEFS) carried out the survey on "Hunger in Adivasi areas of Rajasthan and Jharkhand'' and its report was formally released in the national capital by noted social scientist, Ashis Nandy, on October 14. The Director of CEFS, Parshuram Rai, said on Tuesday that while about 99 per cent of the Adivasi households had lived with one or another level of endemic hunger and food insecurity throughout 2004, at least 25.2 per cent of tribal households had faced semi-starvation during the previous week of survey and 24.1 per cent throughout the previous month. The researchers surveyed 500 households in the two districts to find that only two respondents had eaten two square meals the previous day. Five per cent of the surveyed Adivasis could eat only jungle food to survive and 76.6 per cent tribal households said they had not eaten any pulse or animal product. Mr. Rai said the survey data had suggested that 28.3 per cent of the sample Adivasi households had survived for the whole or significant part of the previous week by eating just one distress meal-a-day or one poor or partial meal-a-day. In other words, 28.3 per cent of sample households lived in semi-starvation condition. The survey findings conform to another recent investigation that had attributed the death of tribals in Baran district to the chronic energy deficiency leading to weakness of the body constitution and decline in immunity levels of the local population. The probe was carried out by a team led by the State Advisor to the Commissioners appointed by the Supreme Court in right to food matter. Mr. Rai pointed out that a staggering 99.8 per cent of Adivasi households had said that they could not get two square meals even for one month of the previous year. Therefore, it was clear that over 99 per cent of the surveyed households were facing one or another level of hunger and food insecurity throughout last year. Moreover, out of the 500 sample Adivasi households surveyed in the State, not a single one had secured two square meals for the whole previous year. The survey report also revealed that 10 per cent of the sample tribal households had to survive only on distress food for 3 to 11 months of the previous year and 22.6 per cent only on one poor or partial meal for 4 to 12 months. In other words, 32.6 per cent of the sample Adivasi households had lived in semi-starvation condition throughout the previous year. An overwhelming 90.6 per cent of the tribal households said their food security had weakened during last 25 years. The field survey, carried out during March to June in 2004, covered 10 villages each in Udaipur and Dungarpur districts. From every sample village, 25 Adivasi households were purposely selected for the household survey. From cubbykabi at yahoo.com Thu Aug 13 10:20:31 2009 From: cubbykabi at yahoo.com (kabi cubby sherman) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: [INSAANIYATBOMBAY] Teachers' strike Message-ID: <231480.96418.qm@web94716.mail.in2.yahoo.com> As you probably know, there has been a university and college teachers' strike here in Maharashtra. Here is a statement of support. best, kabi ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Sanjeewani Jain Sent: Wednesday, 12 August, 2009 5:39:24 PM Subject: [INSAANIYATBOMBAY] Teachers' strike Dear friends, I am sending a statement of support for the strike that has been brought out jointly by a number of organisations. If you like it, please circulate it widely! Also, as thinking members of our society, we would be happy to communicate further with you, discuss further and work together if possible! Thanks, Sanjeewani Support the Just Struggle of the University and College Teachers of Maharashtra! Teachers’ – People’s Unity Zindabad! Citizens, Students, Parents! We, the members of diverse unions and people’s organisations, are appealing to you to support the entirely just struggle of the University and College Teachers of Maharashtra, led by the Maharashtra Federation of University and College Teachers’ Organisations (MFUCTO). We demand that the government immediately grants their demands. It is in the interests of the vast majority of people that teachers are given their dues. After going through all the official channels, and trying unsuccessfully to get their just dues, the MFUCTO had no option but to call for an indefinite cease work from 14th July 2009. This strike has widespread support. About 30 000 teachers from 11 universities and affiliated colleges in Maharashtra have joined the strike, and their determination to fight till they win is becoming firmer by the day. They have not forgotten that they had to resort to indefinite strikes to win the implementation of the 4th as well as 5th Pay Commission packages. One of the main demands of the teachers is that the government should implement in toto the recommendations of its own commission, the Sixth Pay Commission. States like Uttar Pradesh, Arunachal Pradesh and Goa have already implemented these recommendations, while Punjab, Haryana and Gujarat are expected to follow suit. The other main demand pertains to those teachers who have been appointed in the period 1991 – 1999, without the NET or SET qualifications. Though these qualification requirements were not in force during this period and were added later, the government has very unjustly implemented these with retrospective effect and denied promotions to about 10 000 teachers who were appointed during that period! It is indeed shameful that in our land in which the Guru is traditionally revered like God, the government has driven them to the streets in protest and into a jail bharo andolan! It has shown no concern for the lakhs of students who are suffering as a result of the cease work agitation. But what else can one expect in “independent” India, where: • About 40% of the population is still illiterate. • One third of all the children who are out of school worldwide are in India. • Only approximately 7.2 % of adults in the age group of 17-24 have the privilege of getting higher education. As compared to this, the figure for the US and Australia is 80 %, Canada 88 %, Finland 74 % and the UK 52 %. • The government spending on education has never been more than 4.5% of the GDP, and is among the lowest in the world. • The government has tried to shrug off its responsibility to provide quality education to all, and given ashirwads to private players to enter the education sector and derive huge profits. It should not be forgotten that our law makers of various parties are among the tiny minority that has benefited from this particular reform. • The contract system for teachers has been introduced, which has led to great exploitation and insecurity. • The clock-hour basis for teachers as well as “Shikshan Sevaks” or education servants have been introduced, which makes a mockery of the concept of education itself. • Doctors have to go on strike for their just demands. They are threatened, ESMA is imposed on them, their registrations are cancelled, their hostels vacated. (It is to their credit that they were not cowed down and persisted in their fight till they won in Maharashtra, and more recently, in Gujarat). • As of 2006/07, over 50% of rural households had less than Rs. 20 to spend per head daily; 45% of urban families had less than Rs. 30 (National Sample Survey). We know that with the recent spurt in the prices of essentials, particularly of food, real incomes have fallen further. Due to the steep and continuing rise in prices of essential consumption articles, wages stagnating for the majority of workers, and growing insecurity facing peasants, the majority of toiling people have been forced to further cut down their monthly expenditure in 2009. • The government spend on health care, at 0.9% of the GDP, is among the lowest in the world. India lies 171st in a list of 175 countries – lower than even some sub-Saharan African countries! • Millions have lost their jobs since 2008. At the same time, there is another India: • During the first four years of the first Manmohan Singh government, 2004-08, corporate profits in our country grew more rapidly than ever before, along with widening disparities. Wealth of richest 10 Indians, headed by Ambanis and Tata, amounted to Rs 7 lakh crore as of June 2009; it had more than doubled during 2005-08. • Four biggest Indian capitalists now rank among 10 richest of the world • The total value of tax concessions given to the corporate sector and to highly paid senior executives rose from Rs. 285,000 crore in 2007-08 to Rs. 418,000 crore in 2008-09. • In many sectors like cement, steel, two wheelers, plastics, etc, Indian companies now rank among the 10 biggest of the world • During the present global crisis, three stimulus packages worth Rs. 2 lakh crores have been given to big Indian corporate houses. This has not saved any jobs as claimed by the government; in fact it admitted later that 5 lakh jobs have been lost! Since this admission, the number of jobs lost is close to 10 lakhs. This is happening because: • We the people have no role in running the affairs of this country except to vote to power once in 5 years those belonging to this or that Party. • After these Parties come to power, the elected representatives are not accountable to the people who elected them, because it is the high command which will decide whether s/he gets to contest the seat the next time, not the electors! • In the Parties which take turns in ruling our country, the “High Command “decides everything. The rest of the party members cannot question its decisions. • The High Commands of these Parties are easily bought over by the big capitalists of this country. • Hence the big capitalists of India who control the High Commands of these Parties , ensure that the huge resources of the country, the human labour power as well as the abundant natural resources, are utilized to further increase their wealth. What are we doing in this regard? What can YOU Do? • We, the undersigned organisations, are organising people into Lok Raj Samitis wherever they live, as well as wherever they work. • These committees are of an entirely new type - it is the members of the committees who take the decisions and no type of High Command is allowed to exist. • All kinds of divisive politics on the basis of caste, religion , language, Party affiliation etc. is kept out of these committees. • These committees discuss all the problems of the locality and mobilize all the members to unitedly fight to improve the living and working conditions of the people in the locality. • It is these committees which will put forth the most unselfish and trusted sons and daughters of the people as candidates for elections and ensure that once elected, he or she remains accountable to the people who voted them. • These committees will function as the seeds of a new Peoples’ Power which will emerge on the Indian soil to challenge the existing anti-people rule. These committees will bring in Peoples’ Rule or Lok Raj. Friends, An attack on one is an attack on all. While we once again call upon all of you to support the teachers, we also call on you to fight along with us for the future of our country. Join us in our endeavour to establish Lok Raj! - Joint appeal issued by Hind Naujawan Ekta Sabha, Jagrut Ghar Kamgar Sanghatana, Ladaku Garment Mazdoor Sangh, Ladaku General Mazdoor Union, Lok Raj Sangathan, Parivartan Cultural Group, Purogami Mahila Sangathan Contact us at: 9821410105, 9821139348. Visit www.lokrajsangathan .org Email: lrs_mumbai at yahoo, com __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar to learn more about INSAANIYATBOMBAY http://groups.yahoo.com/group/INSAANIYATBOMBAY Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent ActivityVisit Your Group Give Back Yahoo! for Good Get inspired by a good cause. Y! Toolbar Get it Free! easy 1-click access to your groups. Yahoo! Groups Start a group in 3 easy steps. Connect with others. . __,_._,___ Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ From murali.chalam at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 10:43:33 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:43:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] universal civil code In-Reply-To: <14B86AA418CB4B99A8C760E0921465C5@tara> References: <4eab87870908110058g6cdc57fco9208399f1ecf6192@mail.gmail.com> <232101.51937.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908112025t4d5ca542if7d47bdd3920529e@mail.gmail.com> <14B86AA418CB4B99A8C760E0921465C5@tara> Message-ID: <4eab87870908122213sa3fe2f2q5e3962a4bcdb1005@mail.gmail.com> There would be no Hindu Undivided family act in the uniform civil code as the name suggests. The religious aspects of marriage would not change. It is only that any Marriage will have to be registered as it has related links to Divorce, legal heir issues, property disputes etc. Regards, V Murali On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:51 PM, taraprakash wrote: > I believe we need to have a greater debate on this issue. Khat panchayats > have added a new dimension to the debate on Civil code. Should the jaats be > forced to follow marriage related laws under Hindu Undivided Family act? I > would love to hear some views on this. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rakesh Iyer" > To: "Murali V" > Cc: "sarai list" > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 5:06 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast > AccusedGet a Respite > > > Dear Murali >> >> Great idea, provided: >> >> 1) The civil code will be introduced based on points of public discussion, >> after having heard out all views, and implemented only if it is approved >> through a referendum. All people of India must be involved, as it concerns >> them in particular, and must be encouraged to bring their choice to public >> notice through means of referendum. >> >> 2) The civil code must be looked at every 15-20 years to see if things >> have >> to be changed or not (in suit to current realities). For example, 20 years >> ago gay rights may not have been supported to the extent they are today. >> That has to be recognized. The code must also be debated upon periodically >> (not necessarily for changing) and on special occasions if changes have to >> be brought. >> >> Infact, such a civil code will be most useful to minorities, unlike the >> way >> it is portrayed by Muslim fundamentalists. And the BJP should be >> criticized >> for not having thought about it when they were in power (although what >> form >> would that code have taken is something speculative). >> >> >> Regards >> >> Rakesh >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > From murali.chalam at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 10:54:33 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:54:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] universal civil code In-Reply-To: <14B86AA418CB4B99A8C760E0921465C5@tara> References: <4eab87870908110058g6cdc57fco9208399f1ecf6192@mail.gmail.com> <232101.51937.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908112025t4d5ca542if7d47bdd3920529e@mail.gmail.com> <14B86AA418CB4B99A8C760E0921465C5@tara> Message-ID: <4eab87870908122224o89881ddlcade4fd20a21f663@mail.gmail.com> I see in the entire SO Called Hindu Marriage act, nothing Hindu about it except for the *Ceremonies for a Hindu marriage. *This could be made generic which could apply for all Marriages or more easily removed. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:51 PM, taraprakash wrote: > I believe we need to have a greater debate on this issue. Khat panchayats > have added a new dimension to the debate on Civil code. Should the jaats be > forced to follow marriage related laws under Hindu Undivided Family act? I > would love to hear some views on this. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rakesh Iyer" > To: "Murali V" > Cc: "sarai list" > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 5:06 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast > AccusedGet a Respite > > > Dear Murali >> >> Great idea, provided: >> >> 1) The civil code will be introduced based on points of public discussion, >> after having heard out all views, and implemented only if it is approved >> through a referendum. All people of India must be involved, as it concerns >> them in particular, and must be encouraged to bring their choice to public >> notice through means of referendum. >> >> 2) The civil code must be looked at every 15-20 years to see if things >> have >> to be changed or not (in suit to current realities). For example, 20 years >> ago gay rights may not have been supported to the extent they are today. >> That has to be recognized. The code must also be debated upon periodically >> (not necessarily for changing) and on special occasions if changes have to >> be brought. >> >> Infact, such a civil code will be most useful to minorities, unlike the >> way >> it is portrayed by Muslim fundamentalists. And the BJP should be >> criticized >> for not having thought about it when they were in power (although what >> form >> would that code have taken is something speculative). >> >> >> Regards >> >> Rakesh >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 13 10:58:10 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:28:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] universal civil code In-Reply-To: <14B86AA418CB4B99A8C760E0921465C5@tara> Message-ID: <838236.11530.qm@web39104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Mr Taraprakash, IN almost all the cases there is no legal bar on the marriages taking place. The Panchayats are putting their force on the young couples unnecessarily like a person can't marry a girl from the same village, same caste, same Gotra etc.The Hindu Marriage Act clearly defines where it is prohibited.The Govt in power just can't dare take any action because it is a very powerful and united community wtih lot of vote power which can make or mar the chances of a Govt formation especially in Haryana. Regards (A.K.MALIK) --- On Wed, 8/12/09, taraprakash wrote: > From: taraprakash > Subject: [Reader-list] universal civil code > To: "Rakesh Iyer" , "Murali V" > Cc: "sarai list" > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 5:51 PM > I believe we need to have a greater > debate on this issue. Khat panchayats > have added a new dimension to the debate on Civil code. > Should the jaats be > forced to follow marriage related laws under Hindu > Undivided Family act? I > would love to hear some views on this. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rakesh Iyer" > To: "Murali V" > Cc: "sarai list" > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 5:06 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: > Malegaon Blast > AccusedGet a Respite > > > > Dear Murali > > > > Great idea, provided: > > > > 1) The civil code will be introduced based on points > of public discussion, > > after having heard out all views, and implemented only > if it is approved > > through a referendum. All people of India must be > involved, as it concerns > > them in particular, and must be encouraged to bring > their choice to public > > notice through means of referendum. > > > > 2) The civil code must be looked at every 15-20 years > to see if things > > have > > to be changed or not (in suit to current realities). > For example, 20 years > > ago gay rights may not have been supported to the > extent they are today. > > That has to be recognized. The code must also be > debated upon periodically > > (not necessarily for changing) and on special > occasions if changes have to > > be brought. > > > > Infact, such a civil code will be most useful to > minorities, unlike the > > way > > it is portrayed by Muslim fundamentalists. And the BJP > should be > > criticized > > for not having thought about it when they were in > power (although what > > form > > would that code have taken is something speculative). > > > > > > Regards > > > > Rakesh > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 11:09:22 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:09:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] universal civil code In-Reply-To: <838236.11530.qm@web39104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <14B86AA418CB4B99A8C760E0921465C5@tara> <838236.11530.qm@web39104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Malik One of the reasons this has happened is because of poor literacy rates, particularly of women, in such regions as well. I am pretty sure that Haryana has a poor literacy rate of women. What is more, such cases also ensure that the sex ratio is skewed. This has a deteriorating effect because studies show that districts which have a lower sex ratio have a higher crime rate. Hence, in particular we need to do things about it. And the first way, one may go, is changing the public opinion, which is possible through the media and through newspapers. One of the bigger failures of our democracy has also been that our political leaders are more interested in votes rather than ideals and understanding the issues properly. We can't send the Indian Army after all to kill the male heads of these khap panchayats and teach them a lesson for 'not modernizing', so as to nullify the vote impact totally. Why not our media channels go to these places and have the Sardesais and the Barkha Dutts have the debates in these villages? Who knows, what changes couldn't be brought till now may have to be brought in because of this. Regards Rakesh From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 13 11:12:16 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:42:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] universal civil code In-Reply-To: <56D568858E3F48CF9C349D6FB965D209@tara> Message-ID: <610138.35505.qm@web39103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Mr Tara Prakash, There are three distinct marriage act-Hindu Marriage Act,1955; Dissolution of Muslim Marriage Act (perhaps 1938 or so), Christian Marriage Act. However there is a Special Marriage Act for any citizen getting married in Court by The Registrar of Marriages who is usually a designated Judicial Officer from the State Judicial Service.This requires giving one month's notice so that anyone having objection can intervene. Another thing being talked about is UNIFORM CIVIL CODE which the BJP is advocating so that the same laws apply to people of all religions in the country. Regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Wed, 8/12/09, taraprakash wrote: > From: taraprakash > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] universal civil code > To: "Rakesh Iyer" > Cc: "sarai list" > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 9:49 PM > Well, no, I can't. May be it is > called Hindu Marriage Act, or something sounding like that. > But there is an act which covers the marriages of all the > "Hindus" Or maybe all not covered by personal law boards. > > >   ----- Original Message ----- >   From: Rakesh Iyer >   To: taraprakash >   Cc: Murali V ; sarai list >   Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:38 AM >   Subject: Re: universal civil code > > >   Dear Taraprakash > >   Can you put the text of this 'Hindu undivided > families Act' on the list? This is because I didn't find any > act with such a name. What I did get is the Hindu marriage > act and of course, the Hindu Code Bill. The Hindu undivided > families (HUF) can apply for an income tax exemption, is the > only information I got about this. > >   Regards > >   Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From javedmasoo at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 11:22:49 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:22:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] ordering Pizza with your UID Message-ID: Dear Taha Sorry, I don't read many of your posts on the issues of UID and other types of IDs. But I thought of sharing this future scenario: ===== Operator "Thank you for calling Pizza Hut . May I have your..." Customer: "Hello, can I order.." Operator : "Can I have your multi purpose ID card number first, Sir?" Customer: "It's he..., hold........ ...on.... ..88986135610204 9998-45-54610" Operator : "OK... You're... Mr Singh and you're calling from 17 Jal Vayu. Your home number is 22678893,your office 25076666 and your mobile is 09869798888. Which number are you calling from now Sir?" Customer: "Home! How did you get all my phone numbers? Operator : "We are connected to the system Sir" Customer: "May I order your Seafood Pizza..." Operator : "That's not a good idea Sir" Customer: "How come?" Operator : "According to your medical records, you have high blood pressure and even higher cholesterol level Sir" Customer: "What?... What do you recommend then?" Operator : "Try our Low Fat Pizza. You'll like it" Customer: "How do you know for sure?" Operator : "You borrowed a book entitled "Popular Dishes" from the National Library last week Sir" Customer: "OK I give up... Give me three family size ones then, how much will that cost?" Operator : "That should be enough for your family of 05, Sir. The total is Rs 500.00" Customer: "Can I pay by! Credit card?" Operator : "I'm afraid you have to pay us cash, Sir. Your credit card is over the limit and you owe your bank Rs 23,000.75 since October last year. That's not including the late payment charges on your housing loan, Sir.." Customer: "I guess I have to run to the neighbourhood ATM and withdraw some cash before your guy arrives" Operator : "You can't Sir. Based on the records,you' ve reached your daily limit on machine withdrawal today" Customer: "Never mind just send the pizzas, I'll have the cash ready. How long is it gonna take anyway?" Operator : "About 45 minutes Sir, but if you can't wait you can always come and collect it on your Nano Car..." Customer: " What!" Operator : "According to the details in system ,you own a Nano car,...registration number GZ-05-AB-1107. ." Customer: " ????" Operator : "Is there anything else Sir?" Customer: "Nothing... By the way... Aren't you giving me that 3 free bottles of cola as advertised?" Operator : "We normally would Sir, but based on your records you're also diabetic.... ... Customer: #$$^%&$@$% Operator : "Better watch your language Sir.. Remember on 15th July 2010 you were convicted of using abusive language on a policeman... ?" Customer: [Faints] __._,_.___ From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 13 11:23:47 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:53:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908120258v2a9c2afx85e5dccb6b07e2d9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <148494.23311.qm@web39108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I agree Mr Murali. My assessment it won't come during our lifetime(s).Even BJP couldn't dare introduce the same. They advocate so long as they are in opposition. (A.K.MALIK) --- On Wed, 8/12/09, Murali V wrote: > From: Murali V > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite > To: "Rakesh Iyer" > Cc: "sarai list" > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 3:28 PM > Will the muslims come out of their > Sharia laws to be in-line with the common > civil code. They will be even pampered by the politicians > for their vote > bank and  I have my reservations on it if it will ever > see the light of the > day. > Regards, > V Murali > > On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 3:16 PM, Rakesh Iyer > wrote: > > > Yes, but it need not be chaotic. First, a debate needs > to take place among > > intellectuals concerned on the subject itself, > followed by the upper class. > > At the same time, simultaneously, it needs to be taken > at the grass root > > level, among the people, who are then told about the > different points of > > view. The merits and demerits of each view must be > made heard, which is > > quite possible through the gram sabha. At the same > time, what must be looked > > at is that no infringement of the deserved freedoms of > individuals of any > > section or group takes place, which is unjust. > > > > And say after a proper debate for about a year or two, > let us go for a > > referendum. After all, that is very little time > compared to the time taken > > for the Right To Information and the NREGA to get > passed after so many > > struggles (of which most of us would have heard little > or nothing about). > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 13 12:15:48 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 23:45:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn Message-ID: <699249.76017.qm@web39103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Mr Anupam,                  It seems you have mixed up the issue of discrimination.What are you are writing for a phone booth doesn't come from a Statute book, it is pure commercial sense and economics. You don't have a right to have a telephone booth installed even if you don't like carrying a Mobile Phone. But you do have a right if you are discriminated against under Art 14 of the Constitution. In case of minorities as you have read there is the Minorities Commission where ONLY minority religion person can be a complainant.My only appeal was that such a Commission should be available to all citizens including majority.What is wrong with this? Have you never seen any majority person being discriminated against? OUR country is perhaps the only one in this world where minorities have more rights and priviledges LEGALLY than the majority and there are more proponents of these priviledges to minorities.(Realty may perhaps be different). I understand the real situation-if you rebuke your own child, it is no issue at all,but if you do the same to your neighbour's child it is a big issue and can even be taken to a Minorities Commission if the child happens to be from minority. Regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Wed, 8/12/09, anupam chakravartty wrote: > From: anupam chakravartty > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn > To: "sarai list" > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 1:35 AM > Dear Malik jee, > The idea of having reverse discrimination can only be > realised if there is > discrimination. We do have a judiciary to take care of > that. The idea of > discrimination is an elusive one. There can be also > discrimination against > people who do not want to use a mobile phone and instead > depends on Public > Call Booths because the larger society opted for cellular > phones. How have > we accomodated people without mobile phones in the society? > But not many us > are ready to complain because we accomodate technological > marvels of certain > group of people involved in designing them for us so that > it brings us > benefits. But we do have the right to reject them on the > grounds that I dont > want to be mobile with a phone, of all things. So what am i > left with? Say I > am stuck in East of Kailash, and there is not a single > phone booth around > here to make a phone call. I have the option of walking > only ( as i have > only twenty bucks in my pocket) to AIIMS. I bet my last > tenner for you, i am > sure you can theorise on this. > What you call small means a lot to me. Someone getting > discriminated doesnt > have to neccesarily conform to vote bank politics. I guess > such arguments > can also exist independently out of the mainstream > political scenario. A > person not getting a shelter because of a societal rule in > an urban area > where crores of people work, get their wages, steal, beg, > borrow, live, shit > is something horrible. > -Anupam > > On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:58 AM, A.K. Malik > wrote: > > > > > Dear Mr Sengupta, > >                >   What I wanted to emphasize was small issues do come > up and > > they need not necessarily be taken as being based on > religion.The example I > > gave was to let the people know if you a right, others > too have a right. In > > the experience of the Society, to the best of my > knowledge Muslims were not > > barred.I never made an issue because I understand the > people who have formed > > a Society have certain rights.Even if I wished to make > an issue, I couldn't > > have because I belong to the majority community and as > such have no > > Commission where I could have made a complaint. > > Don't you think the reverse discrimination never > happens, but I have yet to > > see anyone highlighting it. > > Would not it have been more appropriate if the Govt > had created a > > Discrimination Commission( or Anti-Discrimination > Commission) where every > > citizen who was discriminated against could go and > file an application > > instead of a Minorities Commission  and such > other Commissions? But ,Sir > > that won't have given the ruling political party vote > banks. > > Regards, > > > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > > > > --- On Tue, 8/11/09, subhrodip sengupta > wrote: > > > > > From: subhrodip sengupta > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes > a U turn > > > To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > > Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 6:00 PM > > > Hashmi dd not complaint against one > > > person alone, being a popular actor, especially > in the > > > present youth he forwarded a point. There's > nothing wrong in > > > not lending your house to a mohammadan. There's > nothing wron > > > when a MOHAMMEDAN STANDS AND SHELTERS EXCLUSIVELY > ANOTHER, > > > BE HE A TERRORIST! I do not support terrorist but > if your > > > logic alone need work, sheltering terrorist is nt > a crime. . > > > ...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: subhrodip sengupta > > > To: Murali V ; > > > Rakesh Iyer > > > Cc: Sarai List > > > Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 3:15:02 PM > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes > a U turn > > > > > > Dear all, > > > Thanks for your interesting comments which does > not let one > > > fall silent. > > > Let me go by your arguments, a group of Brahmins, > possibly > > > marathis who are vegetarians. > > > So, what makes up a hindu bramhin, things he /she > does, a > > > lower acste what they do....... > > > One wont believe it nowadays, but more than five > decades > > > ago, Muslims were marked by their consumption of > onion, and > > > in reverse, only lower caste and Muslims swere > supposed to > > > consume raw onions! Then I assume these BRahmins, > or god > > > knows whoever they are; are discriminating > against not only > > > muslims > alone........................................... > > > Fine for those who believe Constitution is just > another book > > > of rules which need to be bent as we like, > Article on > > > equality is very clear on this, but for those who > look for > > > social consciousness and outcomes, it's not just > > > distracting, but rather alarming. How will these > people live > > > when one of their daughter's shall reveal she has > had had > > > sex with a mohammedan and a christian, apart from > 3 other > > > hindu boys? Will then they resort to more basic > methods of > > > public retribution and disgracing? Alas. > Interestingly > > > nether the fal wallahs nor the sweepers are > > > Brahmins........... As for Beef consumption, > > > Consumption of nothing in my house can make yours > impure, > > > these society wallahs, should have more sense > than > > > conducting Raam Leelas, Hanuman pujas , where > interestingly > > > revel is there, something which they stay should > be behind > > > doors.,........... > > > I have beef inside my house no strong smell > disturrrbs you, > > > it's finer than lift does not work, water supply > does not > > > come, to the latter they should restrict their > problem. What > > > about consumption of liquor. Then they should > have things > > > like surprise checks. Let me not go into > frivolous things, > > > if the argument is correct, they are actually > committing a > > > bigger crime, a prejudice and friction against a > bigger > > > section of society. > > > > > > > > > > > > About Hashmi: > > > Any one who now a days stands up is first accused > of trying > > > to attain cheap publicity, even shiny ahuja's > maid! Fine as > > > a statement from dominant ones who'd else loose > power, but > > > we buying into such things. Things are pretty > clear it is > > > assumed.......(on what basis?) > > > > > > He has been a bold-based actor. Is it less > amusing that > > > his case such people as who date married, women, > bring in > > > joys, challenge social perceptions, or even do > bold roles in > > > movies are cheap. But lest be sure lets pass one > resolution, > > > they are not prostitutes, many of us would have > to apply for > > > license then, being students orf social > > > experiments.......... > > > > > > > > > Regards,(hopefully I got more audience for this > despicable, > > > cheap actor who behaves like what onstage) > > > > > > > > > & LOVE > > > > > > > > > Subhrodip > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Murali V > > > To: Rakesh Iyer > > > Cc: Sarai List > > > Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 1:33:10 PM > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes > a U turn > > > > > > If I were to explain further on Malik's > statement, If > > > somebody is rejected > > > because of being a non-vegetarian, and if the > person > > > happens to belong to a > > > minority community, I am sure, it would be > twisted to be > > > one because of > > > being in the community and all hell would be let > loose by > > > the > > > Pseudo-seculars and the media. > > > > > > Regards, > > > V Murali > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Rakesh Iyer > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I only hope it's for the sake of disallowing > the > > > non-vegetarians and not > > > > for disallowing the Muslims. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the > > > city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > >       Yahoo! recommends > that you upgrade to the new and > > > safer Internet Explorer 8. > > http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the > > > city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > >       See the Web's > breaking stories, > > > chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! > Buzz. > > http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the > > > city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From c.anupam at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 12:49:06 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:49:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn In-Reply-To: <699249.76017.qm@web39103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <699249.76017.qm@web39103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <341380d00908130019m1090d9edkbc109fe97006049f@mail.gmail.com> Dear Mr Malik, with your skewed metaphor of rebuking a child, i am sure you are a neighbourhood bully or something like that. you should be jailed for beating up children in your neighbourhood. :) Actually what are trying to say? That people from majority are also discriminated. Offcourse they are but it can only happen when they (in whatever situation) the person from the majority community is singled out or marginalised or weak. It doesnt have to be an attack from minority (which is religious). But keeping that aspect in mind, the privileges for the minorities have been extended because they can participate in the functioning of the nation. dont think that you only have the right to go and rebuke other's children. and please do not beat up your child and turn him into a goon. ok? -anupam On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 12:15 PM, A.K. Malik wrote: > Dear Mr Anupam, > It seems you have mixed up the issue of > discrimination.What are you are writing for a phone booth doesn't come from > a Statute book, it is pure commercial sense and economics. You don't have a > right to have a telephone booth installed even if you don't like carrying a > Mobile Phone. But you do have a right if you are discriminated against under > Art 14 of the Constitution. In case of minorities as you have read there is > the Minorities Commission where ONLY minority religion person can be a > complainant.My only appeal was that such a Commission should be available to > all citizens including majority.What is wrong with this? Have you never seen > any majority person being discriminated against? OUR country is perhaps the > only one in this world where minorities have more rights and priviledges > LEGALLY than the majority and there are more proponents of these priviledges > to minorities.(Realty may perhaps be different). > I understand the real situation-if you rebuke your own child, it is no > issue at all,but if you do the same to your neighbour's child it is a big > issue and can even be taken to a Minorities Commission if the child happens > to be from minority. > Regards, > (A.K.MALIK) > > > --- On Wed, 8/12/09, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > > From: anupam chakravartty > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn > > To: "sarai list" > > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 1:35 AM > > Dear Malik jee, > > The idea of having reverse discrimination can only be > > realised if there is > > discrimination. We do have a judiciary to take care of > > that. The idea of > > discrimination is an elusive one. There can be also > > discrimination against > > people who do not want to use a mobile phone and instead > > depends on Public > > Call Booths because the larger society opted for cellular > > phones. How have > > we accomodated people without mobile phones in the society? > > But not many us > > are ready to complain because we accomodate technological > > marvels of certain > > group of people involved in designing them for us so that > > it brings us > > benefits. But we do have the right to reject them on the > > grounds that I dont > > want to be mobile with a phone, of all things. So what am i > > left with? Say I > > am stuck in East of Kailash, and there is not a single > > phone booth around > > here to make a phone call. I have the option of walking > > only ( as i have > > only twenty bucks in my pocket) to AIIMS. I bet my last > > tenner for you, i am > > sure you can theorise on this. > > What you call small means a lot to me. Someone getting > > discriminated doesnt > > have to neccesarily conform to vote bank politics. I guess > > such arguments > > can also exist independently out of the mainstream > > political scenario. A > > person not getting a shelter because of a societal rule in > > an urban area > > where crores of people work, get their wages, steal, beg, > > borrow, live, shit > > is something horrible. > > -Anupam > > > > On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:58 AM, A.K. Malik > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Mr Sengupta, > > > > > What I wanted to emphasize was small issues do come > > up and > > > they need not necessarily be taken as being based on > > religion.The example I > > > gave was to let the people know if you a right, others > > too have a right. In > > > the experience of the Society, to the best of my > > knowledge Muslims were not > > > barred.I never made an issue because I understand the > > people who have formed > > > a Society have certain rights.Even if I wished to make > > an issue, I couldn't > > > have because I belong to the majority community and as > > such have no > > > Commission where I could have made a complaint. > > > Don't you think the reverse discrimination never > > happens, but I have yet to > > > see anyone highlighting it. > > > Would not it have been more appropriate if the Govt > > had created a > > > Discrimination Commission( or Anti-Discrimination > > Commission) where every > > > citizen who was discriminated against could go and > > file an application > > > instead of a Minorities Commission and such > > other Commissions? But ,Sir > > > that won't have given the ruling political party vote > > banks. > > > Regards, > > > > > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 8/11/09, subhrodip sengupta > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: subhrodip sengupta > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes > > a U turn > > > > To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > > > Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 6:00 PM > > > > Hashmi dd not complaint against one > > > > person alone, being a popular actor, especially > > in the > > > > present youth he forwarded a point. There's > > nothing wrong in > > > > not lending your house to a mohammadan. There's > > nothing wron > > > > when a MOHAMMEDAN STANDS AND SHELTERS EXCLUSIVELY > > ANOTHER, > > > > BE HE A TERRORIST! I do not support terrorist but > > if your > > > > logic alone need work, sheltering terrorist is nt > > a crime. . > > > > ...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: subhrodip sengupta > > > > To: Murali V ; > > > > Rakesh Iyer > > > > Cc: Sarai List > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 3:15:02 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes > > a U turn > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > Thanks for your interesting comments which does > > not let one > > > > fall silent. > > > > Let me go by your arguments, a group of Brahmins, > > possibly > > > > marathis who are vegetarians. > > > > So, what makes up a hindu bramhin, things he /she > > does, a > > > > lower acste what they do....... > > > > One wont believe it nowadays, but more than five > > decades > > > > ago, Muslims were marked by their consumption of > > onion, and > > > > in reverse, only lower caste and Muslims swere > > supposed to > > > > consume raw onions! Then I assume these BRahmins, > > or god > > > > knows whoever they are; are discriminating > > against not only > > > > muslims > > alone........................................... > > > > Fine for those who believe Constitution is just > > another book > > > > of rules which need to be bent as we like, > > Article on > > > > equality is very clear on this, but for those who > > look for > > > > social consciousness and outcomes, it's not just > > > > distracting, but rather alarming. How will these > > people live > > > > when one of their daughter's shall reveal she has > > had had > > > > sex with a mohammedan and a christian, apart from > > 3 other > > > > hindu boys? Will then they resort to more basic > > methods of > > > > public retribution and disgracing? Alas. > > Interestingly > > > > nether the fal wallahs nor the sweepers are > > > > Brahmins........... As for Beef consumption, > > > > Consumption of nothing in my house can make yours > > impure, > > > > these society wallahs, should have more sense > > than > > > > conducting Raam Leelas, Hanuman pujas , where > > interestingly > > > > revel is there, something which they stay should > > be behind > > > > doors.,........... > > > > I have beef inside my house no strong smell > > disturrrbs you, > > > > it's finer than lift does not work, water supply > > does not > > > > come, to the latter they should restrict their > > problem. What > > > > about consumption of liquor. Then they should > > have things > > > > like surprise checks. Let me not go into > > frivolous things, > > > > if the argument is correct, they are actually > > committing a > > > > bigger crime, a prejudice and friction against a > > bigger > > > > section of society. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Hashmi: > > > > Any one who now a days stands up is first accused > > of trying > > > > to attain cheap publicity, even shiny ahuja's > > maid! Fine as > > > > a statement from dominant ones who'd else loose > > power, but > > > > we buying into such things. Things are pretty > > clear it is > > > > assumed.......(on what basis?) > > > > > > > > He has been a bold-based actor. Is it less > > amusing that > > > > his case such people as who date married, women, > > bring in > > > > joys, challenge social perceptions, or even do > > bold roles in > > > > movies are cheap. But lest be sure lets pass one > > resolution, > > > > they are not prostitutes, many of us would have > > to apply for > > > > license then, being students orf social > > > > experiments.......... > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,(hopefully I got more audience for this > > despicable, > > > > cheap actor who behaves like what onstage) > > > > > > > > > > > > & LOVE > > > > > > > > > > > > Subhrodip > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Murali V > > > > To: Rakesh Iyer > > > > Cc: Sarai List > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 1:33:10 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes > > a U turn > > > > > > > > If I were to explain further on Malik's > > statement, If > > > > somebody is rejected > > > > because of being a non-vegetarian, and if the > > person > > > > happens to belong to a > > > > minority community, I am sure, it would be > > twisted to be > > > > one because of > > > > being in the community and all hell would be let > > loose by > > > > the > > > > Pseudo-seculars and the media. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > V Murali > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Rakesh Iyer > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I only hope it's for the sake of disallowing > > the > > > > non-vegetarians and not > > > > > for disallowing the Muslims. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > > the > > > > city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! recommends > > that you upgrade to the new and > > > > safer Internet Explorer 8. > > > http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > > the > > > > city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > See the Web's > > breaking stories, > > > > chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! > > Buzz. > > > http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > > the > > > > city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > From Shuddha at sarai.net Thu Aug 13 13:12:37 2009 From: Shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:12:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Chinese Artist Ai Weiwei harassed in Chengdu by Police Message-ID: <15451BD4-0D11-4285-97BE-EFE6B094C6AE@sarai.net> Dear all, Please find below a shocking report of an attempt to intimidate and silence a very well known Chinese artist, Ai Weiwei, by police in Chengdu, capital of China's Sichuan province, in the course of a trial of the dissident activist, Tan Zuoren. Yet another instance of the way in which the Chinese state acts to stifle the growing body of dissent in China. best Shuddha -------------------- Chinese Artist (Ai Weiwei) Says He Was Barred From Rights Advocate’s Trial New York Times, August 12, 2009 http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/world/asia/13china.html? _r=2&ref=global-home By EDWARD WONG Published: August 12, 2009 BEIJING — A prominent Chinese artist and frequent critic of the Communist Party said he was hit by police officers and put under detention in his hotel room in western China on Wednesday when he tried to go testify at the trial of a civil rights advocate. The artist, Ai Weiwei, best known for helping to design the Bird’s Nest Olympic Stadium in Beijing, said dozens of police officers barged into his hotel room early Wednesday and the rooms of others who had traveled to Chengdu, the capital of Sichuan Province, to testify on behalf of Tan Zuoren, the rights advocate. The opening session of Mr. Tan’s trial began Wednesday morning and ended hours later without a verdict. The courtroom was closed to the public. Mr. Tan, a well-known writer, has been charged with subversion. He is believed to be on trial because of his role in pushing for an official investigation into widespread school collapses during the Sichuan earthquake last year, and for trying to organize a group event in June to commemorate the 20th anniversary of the massacre of civilians by government forces during the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989. Earlier this month, another rights advocate, Huang Qi, went on trial on a charge of possessing state secrets. Like Mr. Tan, he pushed for the government to investigate the school collapses. During the earthquake last year, thousands of students were killed when school buildings in Sichuan and other provinces crumbled, even as surrounding buildings remained standing. Grieving parents said shoddy construction and corruption were responsible, and demanded that officials investigate. Local governments went to great efforts to silence the parents, ordering the police to detain them, or handing out cash payments in exchange for the parents’ dropping their complaints. Initial reports from the official news media said about 7,000 schoolrooms collapsed and as many as 10,000 children might have died. In May, the government released the first official toll of students killed, saying 5,335 were dead or missing. Earlier this year, Mr. Ai sent volunteers to Sichuan to collect the names of students who had been killed. He began posting the names on his blog and kept a running tally. Government censors then blocked his blog, Mr. Ai said, while police officers in Sichuan detained some of his volunteers and beat a few of them. Mr. Ai said in a telephone interview on Wednesday that he had arrived in Chengdu the previous day to testify on behalf of Mr. Tan but that the judge did not allow him to. He said that he had planned to appear at court anyway but that he and 10 or 11 of his volunteers were prevented from doing so by the officers who barged into their hotel rooms and kept them under watch. “They left a couple of hours later, but some stayed in the hallway and some in the lobby to keep an eye on us, to make sure we failed to attend the trial,” Mr. Ai said from the hotel. Mr. Ai posted grainy digital photographs on Twitter of police officers in the hotel hallway.Someone answering the phone at the police headquarters in Chengdu declined to comment. The court did not allow anyone to testify on behalf of Mr. Tan at the trial on Wednesday, said Pu Zhiqiang, Mr. Tan’s lawyer.He said he would submit a written defense statement to the court by Monday.“However, unless this is an extremely rare case, Tan will be found guilty,” he said. Jonathan Ansfield contributed reporting, and Zhang Jing contributed research. Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From shuddha at sarai.net Thu Aug 13 13:13:09 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:13:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on In-Reply-To: References: <625900.47326.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <809FC697-1125-42C2-8BA2-A7E5E83E4EB5@sarai.net> Message-ID: Dear Junaid, Once again, thank you for your considered and thoughtful reply, and for this opportunity to develop my thinking further. I am in agreement with most of what you say. Most importantly, with your last point, about the necessity to remain vigilant about the possibility, while commenting on the situation in Kashmir, of stripping the resistance of the context it has to function in, and over- contextualizing the actions of the occupiers. However, I do believe that an absence of 'critical' solidarity, de-contextualizes this resistance, (and for that matter, any resistance) encircling it with a halo it does not need as much as a 'holier than thou' attitude born of a complete insensitivity to the actual conditions on the ground. Of course it is completely counter-productive to expect people to articulate their positions on gay rights, ecology or the gender question while soldiers are trampling on their homes, raping their sisters, mothers, lovers and daughters, killing their sons, brothers and friends and holding them at gun-point. But, let us not generalize too much in the other direction either. We all know that there is a certain degree of articulation and exchange possible, even in these times, within Kashmiri civil society. Not a great deal, but not negligible either. There are newspapers, blogs, online platforms such as this one, even conversations in peoples homes and coffee shops. I am concerned about the quality and volume of that exchange, and the fact that it is intimidated, not just by the occupation, but also, by an 'internal occupation' - an 'occupation of the intellectual and imaginative space of the resistance' that is exercised by some amongst the self proclaimed leadership of the same resistance. While, it is unrealistic, and indeed unfair, for me, or for anyone to demand that the Kashmiri who is at gunpoint declaim nuanced statements that runs the gamut from global warming to gay rights, it is equally patronising to persist in saying that we continue to endorse the reticence of those who are indeed at liberty to speak, however softly, and who yet refrain from doing so, either because they do not think these issues are important, or worthy of their support ( in which case they must be opposed, but at least I understand that their position on these matters is sincere and honest) or, because though they may 'privately' sympathize, they wish to remain 'publicly' silent, because they do not want to annoy the 'leadership' of the resistance, and go against the supposed 'sentiments' of the majority of the population (which, under conditions of occupation, they have no way of ascertaining one way or another). In fact, I think that this is one of the most violent and brutal legacies that the occupation has left in Kashmir, a narrowing of the space of the 'sayable',on all sides, on many things. And if the long term effects of the occupation need to be confronted, then one of the things that I believe is urgent, is an 'expansion' of the sayable, to include statements that might even appear heretical and blasphemous today. I have always believed that it is the responsibility of intellectuals to articulate positions that might make them unpopular (if they hold such positions to be true) especially amongst their own constituencies and publics,even while expressing their solidarity with the situation of the same publics. Until some years ago, whenever someone like me would raise the question of the indian state's role in Kashmir, the standard response amongst Indian leftist- liberal intellectuals was an embarassed plea for silence, because, even if some of them 'agreed' with me and others like me in private, 'an anti-national' stand on Kashmir would, in their view, only be 'unpopular' and would further 'alienate' 'us' from the 'masses'. I even recall being told, 'People are starving in India, and you persist with the luxury of talking about freedom in Kashmir.' These, things, I was told, could wait, until after the urgent tasks of tackling the situation in India was completed. Had I, and several others like me, not persisted in making our stand clear, over several years, in the face of determined (and I have to say, in the main, cynical) opposition from within the 'left-liberal- secualr-soft nationalist' constituency in India, I doubt if we would have the (not insignificant) space we do have to debate the entire matter of Kashmir in Indian public fora today. Today, several amongst the same, formerly 'reticent' intellectuals have found it possible to shed their 'reticence' on Kashmir, and this is a good thing. But it would have been a much longer time coming, had we 'waited' for the 'urgencies' that always besiege us in india to cool down. And, I think that continuity of deliberate indifference on the part of large sections of the Indian intelligentsia, would have then made the situation in Kashmir much worse than it is today. We are in a situation today, where the silence that greeted the brutal violence by the Indian state in Kashmir in 1989 and the early nineties, can no longer be repeated, not with the same measure of success. (the violence may be repeated, but the silence wont be so easy to produce) This was most evident to me during the 'Anti-Amarnath Yatra Board Linked Land Grab' movement, when many more Indian intellectuals began saying what had been hitherto considered 'unsayable'. Let me now take this opportunity to clarify a few things. I for one, do not hold out preconditions for standing in solidarity with my thoughts and words with a movement against a violent occupation. A violent occupation, or any situation founded on oppression, in my view needs to be opposed, even if many of the people being oppressed are not necessarily those one would normally be in agreement with. My opposition to the occupation, and the question of my agreement, or disagreement, with the world view of those being oppressed by the occupation, or the leadership of the resistance to the occupation, are two distinct things, and I do not see any reason to confuse them. I know for a fact that there are many people in Kashmir who share my point of view on most things, and that there are many who do not. And I am well aware of the fact that for instance, in many respects, Kashmiri society is far more egalitarian in terms of the relationship between the sexes for instance, than most parts of north india. That is why, i am not over anxious about the possible dominance of a misogynist Islamist fundamentalism in Kashmir. I think that Islamists will have a far harder time in Kashmir than the media would have us believe. But let us suppose that this is not the case. That in fact, upon 'Azadi', they will have a walkover. Would I then regret my choice to support the movement against the occupation? This response, that I am writing now, is an attempt at answering that question. Let me put it this way, the immense concentration of military might that the Indian state maintains in Kashmir is evil, in and of itself. An opposition to it does not need justification with reference to my understanding of the actual or supposed innocence, or political correctness, of those who bear the brunt of the occupation, or, lead the resistance to it, or will overcome it. So, I am never going to ask, or expect people (however many or few they may be) who are homophobic or patriarchal in Kashmir to change their views, say on gay rights, or the place of women, or non- believers in society, which may be diametrically opposed to mine, as a necessary condition for my standing by them in their fight against the violence of the occupation. At the same time, I will refuse to mask my disagreement on key issues with those i stand by, and to keep insisting that the vision of 'azadi' that they hold out, in my view, is deeply flawed. Not to do so, is first of all disrespectful, to them, to me, to to the differences between them and me, to those in Kashmir, such as you, who are not like them, and to the responsibility of solidarity. If, they, embarassed by my libertarian intransigence, were to choose to shun me, and be inhospitable to the expressions of my solidarity, then, that would be their problem, not mine. I would still speak in the favour of their liberty. Not because I like them, but because I love liberty. Let me make it very clear, my fight is against the military occupation of Kashmir by the Indian state. I am not in agreement, either with Kashmiri secular nationalism, or with the various strands of Islamism, or pan-Islamism that striate the Kashmiri political landscape about their vision of the future of Kashmir. I also do not buy the argument that the vision can be 'improved' upon later. Neither do I feel embarassed in any way about my disagreement. Nor have I ever chosen to conceal it. But that does not mean that I agree with the way in which the occupation deprives secular nationalists in Kashmir, or Islamists, for that matter, and most of all - the vast majority of ordinary people, of their liberty. Similarly, while I abhor the politics of Panun Kashmir, I know that the majority of Kashmiri pandits have been let down historically, both by the indian state, which manipulated them and cultivated a peculiarly intense paranoia within the Kashmiri pandit community to its own ends, and by those segments within the Kashmiri muslim community, which benefited from their departure. However, I refuse to privilege the suffering of either Kashmiri muslims or of Kashmiri pandits as the sole determinants of my position on Kashmir. My position on Kashmir has to do with the nature of the occupation, not with the identity, or the anxieties regarding identity, of either those who are suffering from the occupation, or those who have been displaced by the logic of the occupation. I see both as victims of the situation, and nothing irritates me more than a politics based on an exhibition of competitive victimhood. Most of all, I do not believe that the indian state has any business being in Kashmir if the majority of the population of the valley do not want it there. If it is proved otherwise in a free and fair plebiscite, it would be a completely different matter, then, the 'separatists', in my view, would have no business imposing their agenda on an unwilling population, were it to want to remain within India, and then, I would oppose that, (the separatists refusal to take into account what I am currently signposting as a possible, 'hypothetical' endoesement of the Indian union by the democratic majority of the Kashmiri people) just as vigorously, as I currently oppose the hegemony of the Indian state, even though, I have no sympathy at all with Indian nationalism. For me, that is a simple question of respect for a democratic principle. And to accept a democratic principle does not necessarily mean that one has to be in agreement with the sentiments that are democratically expressed. To return fleetingly to another conversation we have been having, had I been convinced, by the evidence clearly available to the world at large, that the Ahmadinejad regime did in fact enjoy the trust and confidence of the majority of the Iranian people, I would have been saddened, but I would have endorsed the acceptance of a deeply unfortunate verdict, with a determined hope that it will be different the next time around. I would not have been outraged in the way that I am today as a result of knowing that the election in Iran was stolen and a colossal exercise in fraud. I say this to point out that even if I were in disagreement with the future destiny that the people of Kashmir were to choose for themselves, I would still support their right to choose it, were they able to do so by free and fair means, un-encumbered by a military occupation. Let us assume a worst case scenario, only for the sake of the argument (I do not believe this to be true, though, I am putting this forward only to clarify my position). It may be that in the not so distant future the majority of the Kashmiri population do indeed agree to give themselves the worst, most reactionary, fundamentalist constitution or charter, that strips all minorities, women and other vulnerable sections of Kashmiri society no space or rights whatsoever. Will this mean that my position on the violence of the occupation will change. That I will suddenly see the occupation as some kind of 'lesser evil'. No, it will not. I will continue to argue against holding people in thrall against their will, even if their will is abhorrent to me. I will treat both as forces to be confronted, and if need be, militantly. The option of selecting one thing over another when both ought to be anathema is precisely the kind of false 'pragmatism' that i feel traps people into positions that they come to deeply regret later. There are many people on this list whose views I totally detest, and argue vociferously against. Most of them are sincere Indian patriots, radicalized Hindus, many of them are Kashmiri pandits, who percieve themselves to be persecuted by what they call a 'pseudo- secular' ('sickular') establishment. I neither agree with, nor sympathize with this self-aggrandizing perception of victimhood that they exhibit. I also know that their fantasy includes the act of identifying people like me as being part of that 'establishment' which they perceive as 'oppressive', even if erroneously. Yet, I have always personally maintained (often to the frustration of close friends and allies) that the nature of the space we have created on this list must ensure that they too should be at liberty to say what they feel, provided they do not abuse that liberty by spreading slander against individuals or threatening individuals with violence. That the only way to confront them is not by banning them, but by taking them head on, politically, which I now see this list doing, more or less organically. I know for a fact that they have their exact and almost identical mirrors within Kashmiri today, including within the resistance, though their number or influence is nowhere near what the mainstream media makes it out to be with its Islamophobic hysteria. And I detest them too, the greybeards lost in their dreams of a fantasy caliphate, which can only mean a the replacement of an occupation with a 'homegrown' prison, with an equal intensity. But even if one of them were to be taken into custody under AFSPA, or tortured, or executed in an extra judicial encounter, I still think it would be the responsibility of any decent human being to stand by them and their families against an evil and draconian set of laws, regardless of what one felt about the politics of the victims. I would not wait, for the prisoner to change his mind, about how he sees people who are not of his faith, before holding out the solidarity that I believe is their right to expect and my responsibility to offer. I completely disagree with the Catholic Church's view on most things, be it papal infallibility, reproductive rights, contraception, womens rights to safe and legal abortion, or homosexuality, and would in most circumstances be totally against the mainstream of Catholic doctrine. And yet, in a situation where catholics, or other christians are persecuted as a minority, as they were in Orissa, I see no problem at all in standing in solidarity with them. I do not, in those instances, expect them to clean up the church's stated position on homosexuality to align with mine as a precondition for the expression of my solidarity with them. At the same time, I will always also speak in criticism of the catholic church's doctrine, and speak, wherever necesary and possible, in defence of dissident catholics, lapsed catholics and non- catholic, and non-believing critics of the church's reactionary positions. This is the only 'pragmatic' approach that i can adopt to much (not all) of the resistance including in Kashmir (and anywhere else where conditions similar to those in Kashmir operate,including in much of India's north east, Jharkhand and Chattisgarh, Palestine, Tibet, Iranian, Iraqui and Turkish occupied Kurdistan, Balochistan, the Uighur areas in China, Chechnya and eslewhere), unconditional support for their right to liberty from an oppressive occupation or from the violence of state initiated armed assauts, and to seek self- determination or a defeat of the armed might of the state, combined with uncompromising and frank opposition to what I consider to be their deeply flawed politics and their narrow, restricted vision of a future, be it for Kashmir or anywhere else. I know of no other way of relating - not as colonizer to colonized - but as an equal, to those who bear the brunt of a humiliation meted out to them in my name, and in the name, essentially, of every Indian citizen, and of every citizen of every occupying power - and as a person who tries to fashion a consistently ethical politics. I hope that I have made myself abundantly clear. best, Shuddha On 09-Aug-09, at 11:03 PM, Junaid wrote: > I, however, believe that many of us who live outside Kashmir, or > are relatively freer, need to have a pragmatic approach toward the > resistance. Most of us may be well-intentioned but when it comes to > lending actual solidarity to the Kashmiris we begin to ask them to > first achieve the Ideal before any support could be extended. We > trenchantly criticise a Kashmiri protestor for not simultaneously > raising the issues we have been talking about while he is battling > soldiers attacking his home. At many times, it reduces to asking > Kashmiris to resist within a prescribed norm of decency. We feel no > actual sympathy for the bearded protestor for perhaps he represents > to us everything we abhor. > > And then there are those of us, who have extremely stringent > standards of what constitutes a legitimate, justified resistance-- > where abberations in the resistance are turned into its dominant > feature, while the structurally violent nature of the occupation > becomes aberations that can be improved. (For Kashmir, it means > making its resistance absolutely contextless, while Indian actions > get overcontextualised). Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From c.anupam at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 13:45:52 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:45:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately Message-ID: <341380d00908130115w6d6e8713y757a055c29dcd941@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, A US congressional body has put India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately: Leonard Leo, the chair of US Commission on International Religious Freedom, said that it was "extremely disappointing" that India has done "so little to protect and bring justice to its religious minorities under siege." "India's democratic institutions charged with upholding the rule of law, most notably state and central judiciaries and police, have emerged as unwilling or unable to seek redress for victims of the violence," he said. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8198770.stm Thanks anupam From murali.chalam at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 14:29:44 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:29:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <341380d00908130115w6d6e8713y757a055c29dcd941@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00908130115w6d6e8713y757a055c29dcd941@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908130159ie4d8b6doa64f86096a8c4525@mail.gmail.com> Who is US to prepare a list. US is a country which has a record of breaking countries which seem to them are developing at a much faster pace than to their liking. This is one such ploy. Indian Muslims were better off than their Pakistani brethren. I quote the very words of Feroz Khan “Pakistan was made in the name of Islam but look how the Muslims here are killing each other. Have you ever heard of a Hindu killing a Muslim in the secular state of India,” Khan reportedly said Regards, V Murali On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 1:45 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear all, > A US congressional body has put India on a list of countries which have > failed to protect its religious minorities adequately: > Leonard Leo, the chair of US Commission on International Religious Freedom, > said that it was "extremely disappointing" that India has done "so little > to > protect and bring justice to its religious minorities under siege." > "India's democratic institutions charged with upholding the rule of law, > most notably state and central judiciaries and police, have emerged as > unwilling or unable to seek redress for victims of the violence," he said. > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8198770.stm > Thanks anupam > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in Thu Aug 13 15:07:15 2009 From: sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in (subhrodip sengupta) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 02:37:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908130159ie4d8b6doa64f86096a8c4525@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00908130115w6d6e8713y757a055c29dcd941@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908130159ie4d8b6doa64f86096a8c4525@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <15317.46661.qm@web94709.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Hahaha, Ask the post 9/11 victims, ask Vikram 'Budhdhi........ ________________________________ From: Murali V To: anupam chakravartty Cc: sarai list Sent: Thursday, 13 August, 2009 2:29:44 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately Who is US to prepare a list. US is a country which has a record of  breaking countries which seem to them are developing at a much faster pace than to their liking. This is one such ploy. Indian Muslims were better off than their Pakistani brethren. I quote the very words of Feroz Khan “Pakistan was made in the name of Islam but look how the Muslims here are killing each other. Have you ever heard of a Hindu killing a Muslim in the secular state of India,” Khan reportedly said Regards, V Murali On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 1:45 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear all, > A US congressional body has put India on a list of countries which have > failed to protect its religious minorities adequately: > Leonard Leo, the chair of US Commission on International Religious Freedom, > said that it was "extremely disappointing" that India has done "so little > to > protect and bring justice to its religious minorities under siege." > "India's democratic institutions charged with upholding the rule of law, > most notably state and central judiciaries and police, have emerged as > unwilling or unable to seek redress for victims of the violence," he said. > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8198770.stm > Thanks anupam > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com From kmvenuannur at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 15:12:33 2009 From: kmvenuannur at gmail.com (Venugopalan K M) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:12:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Media and the Brokers of Public Health Collude in Swine Hype? In-Reply-To: <1f9180970908130236n1387238dyc4bb682b4e14341e@mail.gmail.com> References: <1f9180970908130236n1387238dyc4bb682b4e14341e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f9180970908130242l3d2793bfje6d94ac343041408@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Venugopalan K M Date: Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 3:06 PM Subject: Media and the Brokers of Public Health Collude in Swine Hype? To: Please Watch series of videos in youtube about how Americans were duped by same people, in the name  same Swine Flu years ago and how the vaccine/drug business flourished using media hypes. It tells also about several hundreds of compensation cases filed in America following deaths resulting from a vaccines administered supposedely to prevent swine flu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s_AOoY6BOA&feature=fvw Significantly,one of the comments by a viewer to this video says: "..Now that Swine flu is a pandemic, it is illegal to congregate in large groups. How interesting... When the US dollar collapses within the next 1-2 years and Americans finally get off their asses and protest their government, it will be illegal to meet in large groups. The police will arrest people, and won't be breaking their constitutional rights either, because ...Swine Flu made it illegal to congregate in groups! Wake up Americans! Your country is about in implode financially!.." -- http://venukm.blogspot.com http://www.shelfari.com/kmvenuannur http://kmvenuannur.livejournal.com From lawrence at altlawforum.org Thu Aug 13 15:22:46 2009 From: lawrence at altlawforum.org (Lawrence Liang) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:22:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Right that Dares to Speak its Name: A Primer on The Naz Foundation Decision References: Message-ID: > > Dear All > > Given the importance of the Naz Foundation decision, and despite the > fact that it is an excellently written judgment, we recognize that a > 105 pages can be a challenge for many people. We were therefore > prompted to bring out an analytical primer which could serve as a > guide through the intricacies of the judgment. > > We are happy to announce the publication of a new primer on the > judgment. "The Right that Dares to speak its Name" has been put > together by Arvind Narrain and Marcus Eldridge. The Primer contains > a schematic guide highlighting the key aspects of the judgment with > a commentary. It then examines the background and finally contains a > few commentaries that came out after the judgment. The Primer is > 140 pages and is priced at Rs. 50. Copies are available at ALF > > > For more details and to download a copy please visit > > http://www.altlawforum.org/announcement-of-new-publication-the-right-that-dares-to-speak-its-name > > > Lawrence > > > Table Of Contents: > > Introduction > > Schematic Guide: Naz Foundation v. Union of India > > * The Law > * The Parties > * The Bench > * The Rationale > * Conclusion > * Basis of Ruling > * Territorial Applicability of the judgment > > > Background: The Naz Judgment > > Outline of Arguments on behalf of Voices against 377 > > Edited Transcripts of the final arguments before the Delhi High Court > > Commentaries > > > * On Freedom's avenue, Gautam Bhan > * Reforming Macaulay, Kajal Bharadwaj > * India: From 'perversion' to right to life with dignity, > Kalpana Kannabiran > * Who’s afraid of Homosexuality, Ram Jethmalani > * Striving for magic in the city of words, Lawrence Liang and > Siddarth Narrain > * Its about all of us , Prathap Bhanu Mehta > * Good for all minorities, Tarunabh Khaitan > * Navigating the Noteworthy and the Nebulous in Naz Foundation, > Vikram Raghavan > * Keeping Religion out of the Gay debate, Siddharth Bhatia > From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 13 15:36:54 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 03:06:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] "A Home-grown Conflict" (Re: Balochistan) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1499.41816.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Asad   Agree with you. Malik Siraj has confined himself to "Pakistan to blame" points without highlighting the responsibility of the Balochis themselves.   The feudal strangleholds exercised by Baloch 'Sardars' are to a large degree responsible for the current depravations faced by the Balochis. In this (as you have mentioned) they were aided and abetted by Federal Pakistan perhaps with the idea that governance routed through the "Sardars" would be easier. It is quite likely that judgements were made that disturbing the existing feudal structures would prove to be quite a challenge and perhaps an unaffordable headache so  continuation of status-quo of "Sardars" could/should be projected as 'respecting traditions'.   The manner in which the "Sardars" equipped themselves with Arms, fought battles amongst their own tribes, excommunicated and displaced significant numbers of their own Balochis, brutally imposed their diktats, created private prisons and most of all  treated as Private Income the Royalties (against extracted resources) and other fundings provided by Federal Pakistan cannot be ignored.   I personally do not think that the dissatisfaction amongst the Balochis is going to translate into any significant separatist movement other than to the extent that the tribal areas of Pakistan are in some way or the other and for one reason or the other constantly 'at war' with Federal Pakistan.   What Malik Siraj has ignored is the great likelihood that Balochi greviances could be addressed by a much more reasonable allocation of Federal Funds that takes into account not only the 'people numbers' but also the geographical expanse of Balochistan. It would have to be done by much bolder restructuring than what Musharraf attempted.   But certainly, any such increased infusion of Federal Funds for Development or re-working of "Gas Royalties" or "Gwadar Royalties" would be meaningful only if they put aside the feudal structures.   And of course, the refrain, 'hamaara Gas, hamaaray hee gharon mein nahi' would have to be appropiately dealt with   Kshmendra   --- On Thu, 8/13/09, asad abbasi wrote: From: asad abbasi Subject: RE: [Reader-list] "A Home-grown Conflict" (Re: Balochistan) To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com, reader-list at sarai.net Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 4:51 AM #yiv384453437 .hmmessage P { margin:0px;padding:0px;} #yiv384453437 { font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} Dear Kshmendra and All, This article rightly points out about the attrocities committed to Balouch people. However, i believe that Balouch leaders are as much responsible for current situation of Balochistan as are Pakistani leaders for the problems in Pakistan. It can be a classic case of Feudalism. Powerful balouch leaders were contend when Government was fulfilling their needs. They, at that point, did not care for betterment of Balochistan. But when these leaders were contested on political and personal  issues they started talking about Nationalism and history of Balouch people. Balouch people have been denied facilities and utilities that most of urban civilians in Pakistan enjoy. As i see it,  Balouch leaders at times (how small that period may be) had ability and power to change the fortunes of Balouchies but they didnt. It seems it was in their personal interest. To remain in power they kept Balouch people illeterate and uneducated. Nevertheless, Pakistan is responsible for all her citizens equally. To Keep some Feudal lords Pakistan wrongly makes policies that allows those feudal lords to form their own laws and states. No doubt situation is Balouchistan is home grown but Baloch leaders may have a role to play in it. Pakistan has to treat Balouchies as her responsibility because they are as much Pakistani as others living in that region. For that, Pakistan may have to make sure that regional interest of Balochistan are seen in national interest of Pakistan.   Regards, Asad     > Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 05:37:31 -0700 > From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > To: reader-list at sarai.net > Subject: [Reader-list] "A Home-grown Conflict" (Re: Balochistan) > > "Top Article: A Home-grown Conflict" >   > Malik Siraj Akbar11 August 2009 >   > When the first Baloch insurgency broke out in 1948 to resist the illegal and forceful annexation of the Baloch-populated autonomous Kalat state with Pakistan, Manmohan Singh - today Indian prime minister - was barely a teenager while his Pakistani counterpart Yousuf Raza Gilani had not even been born to witness the rebellion's magnitude. Yet, last month, both leaders in Sharm el-Sheikh discussed for the first time the indefatigable Baloch insurgency. > > Pakistan has been blaming India for causing trouble in its resource-rich province. Gilani broached the issue with India at a time disgruntled Baloch youth have removed the Pakistani flag from schools and colleges and stopped playing the national anthem. Punjabi officers refuse to serve in Balochistan, fearing they would be target-killed. Islamabad attributes the unrest to 'foreign involvement'. India is not the first to be blamed. Similar allegations were levelled in the past against the now defunct Soviet Union, Afghanistan and Iraq to discredit the indigenous movement for retaining a distinct Baloch identity. Indian assistance sounds ridiculous given that the Baloch do not share a border, common language, religion or history with India. Hardly has 1 per cent of Balochs have visited India. > > The idea of Pakistan never attracted the secular Baloch. Ghose Baksh Bizanjo, a Baloch leader, said in 1947: "It is not necessary that by virtue of our being Muslims we should lose our freedom... If the mere fact that we are Muslims requires us to join Pakistan, then Afghanistan and Iran... should also amalgamate with Pakistan." > > Over the years, Islamabad has applied a multi-pronged approach to deal with Balochista Apart from military operations launched in 1948, 1958, 1962, 1973 and 2002 to quash the rebellion, Islamabad adopted other tactics. First, it kept the province economically backward by denying it good infrastructure, mainly in education and health. Natural gas was discovered in Balochistan in 1951 and supplied to Punjab's industrial units. The Balochs hardly benefit from their own gas. > > Second, Balochs, whom the state views as traitors, were denied representation in the army, foreign services, federal departments, profitable corporations, Pakistan International Airlines, customs, railways and other key institutions. Third, Balochistan has historically been remote-controlled from Islamabad. A Pakistan army corps commander, often a Punjabi or a Pathan, and the inspector general of the Frontier Corps, a federal paramilitary force with less than 2 per cent Baloch representation, exert more power than the province's elected chief minister. The intelligence agencies devise election plans and decide who has to come to the provincial parliament and who should be ousted. > > Fourth, Islamabad has created a state of terror inside Balochistan. Hundreds of check posts have been established to harass people and restrict their movement. Forces and tanks are stationed even on campuses of universities. Fifth, national and international media are denied access to conflict zones in Balochistan. Several foreign journalists were beaten up supposedly by intelligence agencies personnel or deported when they endeavoured to report the actual situation. Sixth, international human rights organisations are denied access to trace the whereabouts of some 5,000 'missing persons'. Pakistan is also in a state of denial about the existence of around 2,00,000 internally displaced persons in Balochistan. > > Seventh, Islamabad has been engaged in systematic target killing of key Baloch democratic leaders. Ex-governor and chief minister of Balochistan, Nawab Akbar Bugti, 79, became a victim once he demanded Baloch rights. Balach Marri, a Balochistan Assembly member, was killed to undermine the movement. In April this year, three other prominent leaders were whisked away by security forces and subsequently killed. > > Eighth, Pakistan has pitted radical Taliban against secular and democratic Baloch forces. The state is brazenly funding thousands of religious schools across the province with the help of Arab countries to promote religious radicalisation. Elements supportive of Taliban were covertly helped by state institutions to contest and win general elections. They now enjoy sizeable representation in the Balochistan Assembly to legislate against the nationalists and secular forces. > > Ninth, Islamabad has been using sophisticated American weapons, provided to crush Taliban, against the Baloch people. This has provided breathing space to Taliban hidden in Quetta and weeded out progressive elements. Finally, Afghan refugees are being patronised to create a demographic imbalance in the Baloch-dominated province. > > Baloch leaders are critical of many democratic countries for not doing 'enough' to safeguard a democratic, secular Baloch people. I asked Bramdagh Bugti, a Baloch commander, about the India link. He laughed and said, "Would our people live amid such miserable conditions if we enjoyed support from India? We are an oppressed people... seeking help from India, the United States, the United Nations and the European Union to come for our rescue." > > The Baloch movement is rapidly trickling down from tribal chiefs to educated middle-class youth aggressively propagating their cause on Facebook and YouTube. This generation would understandably welcome foreign assistance but will not give up even if denied help from countries like India. The Baloch insist their struggle was not interrupted even at times when India and Pakistan enjoyed cordial relations. > > The writer is Balochistan bureau chief of Daily Times . > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Internet Explorer 8 - accelerate your Hotmail. Download Internet Explorer 8 From murali.chalam at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 15:43:48 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:43:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <15317.46661.qm@web94709.mail.in2.yahoo.com> References: <341380d00908130115w6d6e8713y757a055c29dcd941@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908130159ie4d8b6doa64f86096a8c4525@mail.gmail.com> <15317.46661.qm@web94709.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908130313i46ed54fcn260a229de7fb17a1@mail.gmail.com> They are the most pampered and protected lot, even if they are involved in dastardly acts. Regards, V Murali On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 3:07 PM, subhrodip sengupta < sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in> wrote: > Hahaha, > Ask the post 9/11 victims, ask Vikram 'Budhdhi........ > > > ________________________________ > From: Murali V > To: anupam chakravartty > Cc: sarai list > Sent: Thursday, 13 August, 2009 2:29:44 PM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed > to protect its religious minorities adequately > > Who is US to prepare a list. US is a country which has a record of > breaking > countries which seem to them are developing at a much faster pace than to > their liking. This is one such ploy. > Indian Muslims were better off than their Pakistani brethren. > > I quote the very words of Feroz Khan > > “Pakistan was made in the name of Islam but look how the Muslims here are > killing each other. Have you ever heard of a Hindu killing a Muslim in the > secular state of India,” Khan reportedly said > > Regards, > V Murali > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 1:45 PM, anupam chakravartty >wrote: > > > Dear all, > > A US congressional body has put India on a list of countries which have > > failed to protect its religious minorities adequately: > > Leonard Leo, the chair of US Commission on International Religious > Freedom, > > said that it was "extremely disappointing" that India has done "so little > > to > > protect and bring justice to its religious minorities under siege." > > "India's democratic institutions charged with upholding the rule of law, > > most notably state and central judiciaries and police, have emerged as > > unwilling or unable to seek redress for victims of the violence," he > said. > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8198770.stm > > Thanks anupam > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and > more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 16:09:04 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:09:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908130313i46ed54fcn260a229de7fb17a1@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00908130115w6d6e8713y757a055c29dcd941@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908130159ie4d8b6doa64f86096a8c4525@mail.gmail.com> <15317.46661.qm@web94709.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908130313i46ed54fcn260a229de7fb17a1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908130339x1dcee0e1t4c2cc98ad48b775e@mail.gmail.com> May be the report writer wished that the priests and the nun who killed Sister Abhaya to be freed from trial, so that they can preach how to love each other more, in more ways.? Regards, Rajen. On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Murali V wrote: > They are the most pampered and protected lot, even if they are involved in > dastardly acts. > > Regards, > V Murali > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 3:07 PM, subhrodip sengupta < > sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in> wrote: > > > Hahaha, > > Ask the post 9/11 victims, ask Vikram 'Budhdhi........ > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Murali V > > To: anupam chakravartty > > Cc: sarai list > > Sent: Thursday, 13 August, 2009 2:29:44 PM > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed > > to protect its religious minorities adequately > > > > Who is US to prepare a list. US is a country which has a record of > > breaking > > countries which seem to them are developing at a much faster pace than to > > their liking. This is one such ploy. > > Indian Muslims were better off than their Pakistani brethren. > > > > I quote the very words of Feroz Khan > > > > “Pakistan was made in the name of Islam but look how the Muslims here are > > killing each other. Have you ever heard of a Hindu killing a Muslim in > the > > secular state of India,” Khan reportedly said > > > > Regards, > > V Murali > > > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 1:45 PM, anupam chakravartty > >wrote: > > > > > Dear all, > > > A US congressional body has put India on a list of countries which have > > > failed to protect its religious minorities adequately: > > > Leonard Leo, the chair of US Commission on International Religious > > Freedom, > > > said that it was "extremely disappointing" that India has done "so > little > > > to > > > protect and bring justice to its religious minorities under siege." > > > "India's democratic institutions charged with upholding the rule of > law, > > > most notably state and central judiciaries and police, have emerged as > > > unwilling or unable to seek redress for victims of the violence," he > > said. > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8198770.stm > > > Thanks anupam > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > > Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and > > more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 16:12:06 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:12:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "A Home-grown Conflict" (Re: Balochistan) In-Reply-To: <1499.41816.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <1499.41816.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908130342n985c23fha6356c3b2e31005d@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, we in this continent are experts in blame game, game of passing the buck, all are equally responsible, let us start to live like civilised humans with humane approach to life, after all faith came in to our life after birth, life came first. Regards, Rajen. On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Asad > > Agree with you. Malik Siraj has confined himself to "Pakistan to blame" > points without highlighting the responsibility of the Balochis themselves. > > The feudal strangleholds exercised by Baloch 'Sardars' are to a large > degree responsible for the current depravations faced by the Balochis. In > this (as you have mentioned) they were aided and abetted by Federal Pakistan > perhaps with the idea that governance routed through the "Sardars" would be > easier. It is quite likely that judgements were made that disturbing the > existing feudal structures would prove to be quite a challenge and perhaps > an unaffordable headache so continuation of status-quo of "Sardars" > could/should be projected as 'respecting traditions'. > > The manner in which the "Sardars" equipped themselves with Arms, fought > battles amongst their own tribes, excommunicated and displaced significant > numbers of their own Balochis, brutally imposed their diktats, created > private prisons and most of all treated as Private Income the Royalties > (against extracted resources) and other fundings provided by Federal > Pakistan cannot be ignored. > > I personally do not think that the dissatisfaction amongst the Balochis is > going to translate into any significant separatist movement other than to > the extent that the tribal areas of Pakistan are in some way or the other > and for one reason or the other constantly 'at war' with Federal Pakistan. > > What Malik Siraj has ignored is the great likelihood that > Balochi greviances could be addressed by a much more reasonable allocation > of Federal Funds that takes into account not only the 'people numbers' but > also the geographical expanse of Balochistan. It would have to be done by > much bolder restructuring than what Musharraf attempted. > > But certainly, any such increased infusion of Federal Funds for Development > or re-working of "Gas Royalties" or "Gwadar Royalties" would be meaningful > only if they put aside the feudal structures. > > And of course, the refrain, 'hamaara Gas, hamaaray hee gharon mein nahi' > would have to be appropiately dealt with > > Kshmendra > > > > --- On Thu, 8/13/09, asad abbasi wrote: > > > From: asad abbasi > Subject: RE: [Reader-list] "A Home-grown Conflict" (Re: Balochistan) > To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com, reader-list at sarai.net > Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 4:51 AM > > > > > #yiv384453437 .hmmessage P > { > margin:0px;padding:0px;} > #yiv384453437 { > font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} > > Dear Kshmendra and All, > This article rightly points out about the attrocities committed to Balouch > people. However, i believe that Balouch leaders are as much responsible for > current situation of Balochistan as are Pakistani leaders for the problems > in Pakistan. It can be a classic case of Feudalism. Powerful balouch leaders > were contend when Government was fulfilling their needs. They, at that > point, did not care for betterment of Balochistan. But when these leaders > were contested on political and personal issues they started talking about > Nationalism and history of Balouch people. > Balouch people have been denied facilities and utilities that most of urban > civilians in Pakistan enjoy. As i see it, Balouch leaders at times (how > small that period may be) had ability and power to change the fortunes > of Balouchies but they didnt. It seems it was in their personal interest. To > remain in power they kept Balouch people illeterate and uneducated. > Nevertheless, Pakistan is responsible for all her citizens equally. To Keep > some Feudal lords Pakistan wrongly makes policies that allows those feudal > lords to form their own laws and states. > No doubt situation is Balouchistan is home grown but Baloch leaders may > have a role to play in it. Pakistan has to treat Balouchies as her > responsibility because they are as much Pakistani as others living in that > region. For that, Pakistan may have to make sure that regional interest of > Balochistan are seen in national interest of Pakistan. > > Regards, > Asad > > > > > Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 05:37:31 -0700 > > From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > > To: reader-list at sarai.net > > Subject: [Reader-list] "A Home-grown Conflict" (Re: Balochistan) > > > > "Top Article: A Home-grown Conflict" > > > > Malik Siraj Akbar11 August 2009 > > > > When the first Baloch insurgency broke out in 1948 to resist the illegal > and forceful annexation of the Baloch-populated autonomous Kalat state with > Pakistan, Manmohan Singh - today Indian prime minister - was barely a > teenager while his Pakistani counterpart Yousuf Raza Gilani had not even > been born to witness the rebellion's magnitude. Yet, last month, both > leaders in Sharm el-Sheikh discussed for the first time the indefatigable > Baloch insurgency. > > > > Pakistan has been blaming India for causing trouble in its resource-rich > province. Gilani broached the issue with India at a time disgruntled Baloch > youth have removed the Pakistani flag from schools and colleges and stopped > playing the national anthem. Punjabi officers refuse to serve in > Balochistan, fearing they would be target-killed. Islamabad attributes the > unrest to 'foreign involvement'. India is not the first to be blamed. > Similar allegations were levelled in the past against the now defunct Soviet > Union, Afghanistan and Iraq to discredit the indigenous movement for > retaining a distinct Baloch identity. Indian assistance sounds ridiculous > given that the Baloch do not share a border, common language, religion or > history with India. Hardly has 1 per cent of Balochs have visited India. > > > > The idea of Pakistan never attracted the secular Baloch. Ghose Baksh > Bizanjo, a Baloch leader, said in 1947: "It is not necessary that by virtue > of our being Muslims we should lose our freedom... If the mere fact that we > are Muslims requires us to join Pakistan, then Afghanistan and Iran... > should also amalgamate with Pakistan." > > > > Over the years, Islamabad has applied a multi-pronged approach to deal > with Balochista Apart from military operations launched in 1948, 1958, 1962, > 1973 and 2002 to quash the rebellion, Islamabad adopted other tactics. > First, it kept the province economically backward by denying it good > infrastructure, mainly in education and health. Natural gas was discovered > in Balochistan in 1951 and supplied to Punjab's industrial units. The > Balochs hardly benefit from their own gas. > > > > Second, Balochs, whom the state views as traitors, were denied > representation in the army, foreign services, federal departments, > profitable corporations, Pakistan International Airlines, customs, railways > and other key institutions. Third, Balochistan has historically been > remote-controlled from Islamabad. A Pakistan army corps commander, often a > Punjabi or a Pathan, and the inspector general of the Frontier Corps, a > federal paramilitary force with less than 2 per cent Baloch representation, > exert more power than the province's elected chief minister. The > intelligence agencies devise election plans and decide who has to come to > the provincial parliament and who should be ousted. > > > > Fourth, Islamabad has created a state of terror inside Balochistan. > Hundreds of check posts have been established to harass people and restrict > their movement. Forces and tanks are stationed even on campuses of > universities. Fifth, national and international media are denied access to > conflict zones in Balochistan. Several foreign journalists were beaten up > supposedly by intelligence agencies personnel or deported when they > endeavoured to report the actual situation. Sixth, international human > rights organisations are denied access to trace the whereabouts of some > 5,000 'missing persons'. Pakistan is also in a state of denial about the > existence of around 2,00,000 internally displaced persons in Balochistan. > > > > Seventh, Islamabad has been engaged in systematic target killing of key > Baloch democratic leaders. Ex-governor and chief minister of Balochistan, > Nawab Akbar Bugti, 79, became a victim once he demanded Baloch rights. > Balach Marri, a Balochistan Assembly member, was killed to undermine the > movement. In April this year, three other prominent leaders were whisked > away by security forces and subsequently killed. > > > > Eighth, Pakistan has pitted radical Taliban against secular and > democratic Baloch forces. The state is brazenly funding thousands of > religious schools across the province with the help of Arab countries to > promote religious radicalisation. Elements supportive of Taliban were > covertly helped by state institutions to contest and win general elections. > They now enjoy sizeable representation in the Balochistan Assembly to > legislate against the nationalists and secular forces. > > > > Ninth, Islamabad has been using sophisticated American weapons, provided > to crush Taliban, against the Baloch people. This has provided breathing > space to Taliban hidden in Quetta and weeded out progressive elements. > Finally, Afghan refugees are being patronised to create a demographic > imbalance in the Baloch-dominated province. > > > > Baloch leaders are critical of many democratic countries for not doing > 'enough' to safeguard a democratic, secular Baloch people. I asked Bramdagh > Bugti, a Baloch commander, about the India link. He laughed and said, "Would > our people live amid such miserable conditions if we enjoyed support from > India? We are an oppressed people... seeking help from India, the United > States, the United Nations and the European Union to come for our rescue." > > > > The Baloch movement is rapidly trickling down from tribal chiefs to > educated middle-class youth aggressively propagating their cause on Facebook > and YouTube. This generation would understandably welcome foreign assistance > but will not give up even if denied help from countries like India. The > Baloch insist their struggle was not interrupted even at times when India > and Pakistan enjoyed cordial relations. > > > > The writer is Balochistan bureau chief of Daily Times . > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > Internet Explorer 8 - accelerate your Hotmail. Download Internet Explorer 8 > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 16:16:27 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:16:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Media and the Brokers of Public Health Collude in Swine Hype? In-Reply-To: <1f9180970908130242l3d2793bfje6d94ac343041408@mail.gmail.com> References: <1f9180970908130236n1387238dyc4bb682b4e14341e@mail.gmail.com> <1f9180970908130242l3d2793bfje6d94ac343041408@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908130346q5e756a8ay4b5a373331b5ce20@mail.gmail.com> Venu jee, the replication in India is evident as media is more keen on showing the deaths 24 x 7, creating panic, masks and the prices of these masks are at all time high, tamiflu is being sold in without prescriptions, none seems to understand that this media hype is damaging the psyche and business is as usual for greedy.!Even the pane of doctors seem to be keen on "educating" panic.! Regards, Rajen. On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 3:12 PM, Venugopalan K M wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Venugopalan K M > Date: Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 3:06 PM > Subject: Media and the Brokers of Public Health Collude in Swine Hype? > To: > > > Please Watch series of videos in youtube about how Americans were > duped by same people, in the name same Swine Flu years ago and how > the vaccine/drug business flourished using media hypes. It tells also > about several hundreds of compensation cases filed in America > following deaths resulting from a vaccines administered supposedely > to prevent swine flu: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s_AOoY6BOA&feature=fvw > > Significantly,one of the comments by a viewer to this video says: > > "..Now that Swine flu is a pandemic, it is illegal to congregate in > large groups. How interesting... > When the US dollar collapses within the next 1-2 years and Americans > finally get off their asses and protest their government, it will be > illegal to meet in large groups. The police will arrest people, and > won't be breaking their constitutional rights either, because ...Swine > Flu made it illegal to congregate in groups! > > Wake up Americans! Your country is about in implode financially!.." > > > > -- > http://venukm.blogspot.com > > http://www.shelfari.com/kmvenuannur > > http://kmvenuannur.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 16:31:05 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:31:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: <341380d00908120515q56734bb8vd1d10ac58eb62f4e@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560908100251m61055704t1d54be26379d0bd8@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908100331n1c28c00ehd849fbf88e866741@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908120441h71e24400p80e27b3c08e86af0@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908120515q56734bb8vd1d10ac58eb62f4e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908130401o10a6776ah6545c763a9b5fad0@mail.gmail.com> Anupam I am talking of a society where all of us live as citizens of India, without reference to any faith, but if you choose to link it in any way, it is your choice as free citizen of the nation.You can have the right of expression to say peddling and any such lofty words which are normal in the left parties and pseudo seculars, but for me, in India all are Indians first, all other facets come later., without affecting the character of the nation, to live in harmony. The right to disagree is the basic tenet of a good system of democratic rule, if you think you have a better idealogy, it is for you to explore it, but having seen the socialist at work, communism at work and also populism at work, my belief is in rule of laws, without fear or favour to any class, caste or faith, even region. If you have any misgivings and bias it is for you to search out the answers instead of being parroting the same old half truths, lies. Criticism is good, so I am neither displeased, nor unhappy as long it is not in the form of violence, as harsh words only reflect your bad understanding, illogical bias and reservations of mind to listen to other thoughts in a discussion.Saint poet of Karnataka, Purandara Dasa has said in his divine melodies, critics are needed in the society, only then a place of life will be clean, as they scavenge all filth.Many such quotes are available in sufi songs also. If some choose to play with words, to criticise, that is perfectly alright as it is the right of expression, you are expressing it in your style, keep going......! : -) On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:45 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > Dear Rajen > > "society always recognizes that terrorist apprehended is muslim by name, > but > muslims are not terrorists." > > Which society are you referring to sir? People who you can incite by saying > such things. speaking ill for one community in such a way is really > horrible > sir. you are a senior person here. you contradict the first line that you > are citing: "propaganda by few for their livelihood is not new to society, > but the individuals in society can feel the difference of the words and > actions." > > I am individual whether u notice or not, i can say that you are peddling > your RSS propaganda through this forum. You do it very consciously, making > statements about the society and other such things. had you been a just, an > unbiased person, you would NOT have said these lines. your problem with the > muslims are historical, the present generation (people who earn their > livelihoods from the muslim community) have not done anything wrong to you > per se. why dont you speak against arun gawli, or violent MNS, or gujarati > rioters who are seeking refuge in US and UK, absconding trial? these are > also terrorists. they went around in jeeps plundering killing people across > the fields. there are live footages of that as proof. because of the sick > judiciary of gujarat, these cases have been turned into cliches. why would > you speak? after all, you consider yourself to be this self styled preacher > for the aspirational indian who wants to toil hard in the sun, and earn his > own livelihood. your vested interest lies in the fact that you want to > establish a land for hindus. you justify their actions as reactions. you > have been doing so. please do not ask me show examples, because if i do > you'd be defaced here. so stop spewing venom and yes this is very much a > personal attack on you sir. it is utterly disgusting for me to read such > views, however i consider this forum also as an outlet for expression. the > democratic right that you use here to express your views also comes with > duties. so please keep your propaganda aside. do not make these categorical > judgements instead cite the particulars. it helps one to cite contrary also > and then may be a decisive debate. this name-suggestion business in > apprehending terrorist only lasts because these names are used/abused > sometimes by their own community and on other occasions by people like you, > who have these ideas that terrorists are some kind of alien race. NO they > are very much from here, from this mind which has been poisoned by this > sectarian politics. the underworld, the mafia, the ideological guerilla, > the > terrorists (islamic or hindu) are born out of conflicts. because we do not > have conflict resolution mechanisms in place anywhere in the world. because > we prefer the easy way out just by bombing, or sending young minds on to > the > seas to attack innocent people. > > i apologise if i am harsh here but your statements are beginning make me > think i should discard india as a country. it should just seize to exist as > the chinese have foolishly proposed. > > -anupam > > > > On 8/12/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi > wrote: > > > Dear Javed, > > propaganda by few for their livelihood is not new to society, but the > > individuals in society can feel the difference of the words and actions. > In > > any organisation, when volunteers are many, some may be deviant, some > > compliant, that is the reason, society always recognizes that terrorist > > apprehended is muslim by name, but muslims are not terrorists.Like any > > other > > deviants some on the fringes may feel that they have to retaliate the > > violence, but what individuals in society fail to understand is violence > > only breeds more of it. There are enough propaganda and speeches that go > on > > in society, after nammaaz I also had to bear the hate speech on the > > loudspeakers regularly but that does not mean that mulsims are preaching > > hatred, only some mullas do it for their collecton to soar.! > > > > And there are new type of evangelists who are "chrstian brahmins" who > > preach "vedas" for the gullible, with foreign funds,as the new bible of > > Veda.! > > > > Regards, > > > > Rajen. > > > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 7:07 PM, Javed wrote: > > > > > Dear Rajen > > > You say that "RSS does not hate Muslims or Christians", but you seem > > > to be ignoring all the hate-propaganda literature that is produced by > > > RSS and its allies, and the fact that RSS shakhas in small towns > > > brainwash little children against Muslims. Have you seen these 2 > > > documentary films called "Boys in the Branch" and "Men in the Trees" > > > (directed by Lalit Vachani) that explore exactly how the RSS > > > infiltrates the minds of youngsters. Do watch them if you can. > > > Working for the nation is fine, but at whose cost? > > > > > > J > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Rajendra Bhat > > > Uppinangadi wrote: > > > > Rakesh jee, > > > > you have your intellect to analyse and judge, you are free citizen > of > > > > India, but your sweeping judgement of RSS is absolutely wrong, and > you > > > are > > > > entitled to your views, but alteast have the patience to see the > > working > > > of > > > > RSS before you start quoting from the articles of regular baiters > like > > > > Ashish Nandy and the tribe of pseudo -seculars, let me re-assert, RSS > > > does > > > > not hate muslims or christians, RSS men and women are volantary men > and > > > > women who work for the nation , that too with the hope that the wall > in > > > the > > > > partition of 1947 will be brought down, all live with harmony and > peace > > > > irrespective of their faith, no faith followers dominating the > > "majority" > > > or > > > > "minority" on the basis of faith, converting from faiths to garner > > votes > > > > with vote banks. > > > > Muslims demanded partition and got it, but worked and struggled with > > all > > > > against slavery and the British rule, but the land mass was not loot > > > after > > > > robbery to be distributed after freedom. Only 23 percent went to the > > > > partitioned land, rest assured the leaders and the nation that they > > will > > > be > > > > living harmoniously with their hindu brothers, but we have seen the > > > deviant > > > > in them, and the silent majority of muslims tolerating such deviants > > with > > > > NGOs. > > > > As to the deviants of the lot, they are emboldened by the fact that > > they > > > > though, in very small quantum, numerically, have supporters in so > > > > called pseudo seculars who have love of freedom to fight for any > faith > > as > > > > legal., but not hindu, because then it is communal, not secular.! > > > > Regards, > > > > Rajen. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Rakesh Iyer > > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> Dear Rajen jee > > > >> > > > >> While it certainly is a questionable practice not to declassify the > > > >> documents of intelligence of about more than 30 years ago, you seem > to > > > make > > > >> a complete mockery of the investigations in the Malegaon case, as if > > > Hindus > > > >> can not be party to any terror blasts within the country, more so > > those > > > who > > > >> believe in the 'Hindutva' ideology. > > > >> > > > >> This is a wrong value-based position and I strongly disagree with > it. > > > One > > > >> must not forget that the Sangh Parivar is such is based on the > > > ideological > > > >> position of disregarding the rights of the minorities to a life of > > > dignity, > > > >> and this is certainly a shame when compared with the ideals on which > > the > > > >> Indian Constitution was and is still based. (Unless of course you > > > believe > > > >> that the Constitution itself is a shame to begin with). > > > >> > > > >> Any matter must be thoroughly investigated and only after proper > > > >> investigations should we derive conclusions from it. Whether it be > > > Malegaon > > > >> or Mumbai blasts, this should be the way to go. Also, if matters > > > relating to > > > >> the case are present in the public domain, they should be presented > to > > > the > > > >> public from the point of view of both sides (the accuser and the > > > accused). > > > >> And specifically, if people have doubts regarding the direction or > > > certain > > > >> matters within the case, these can and should be raised in the media > > and > > > >> elsewhere for public discussion. > > > >> > > > >> The shameful part is that in India, when someone is claimed to be a > > > >> terrorist, he/she is taken to be one irrespective of whether the > final > > > >> investigations indeed state the same or not. The basic notion of > > > 'innocent > > > >> until proven guilty' is reversed to be stated as 'guilty even if > > termed > > > >> innocent by courts' in such cases. Whether it be Geelani or Sadhvi > > > Pragya > > > >> Thakur, that has happened. I have not seen the concerned articles as > > > >> mentioned by Mr. Puniyani, but I believe that unless one has > evidence > > to > > > >> prove the judgement as wrong, or valid questions regarding the basis > > on > > > >> which the judgement was made, one should not make atrocious > > allegations > > > of > > > >> this kind. > > > >> > > > >> Therefore, on the same grounds as I feel that Puniyani jee's side > may > > be > > > >> wrong, I equally feel that your side can also be wrong. > > > >> > > > >> Regards > > > >> > > > >> Rakesh > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Rajen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Rajen. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 16:34:09 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:34:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] ordering Pizza with your UID In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7271ec560908130404r127c6cd9q46d1e6c37e8f431@mail.gmail.com> One more spoof of this is there with the name changed to Barakhath ulla, but not worth it ............. On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 11:22 AM, Javed wrote: > Dear Taha > Sorry, I don't read many of your posts on the issues of UID and other > types of IDs. But I thought of sharing this future scenario: > ===== > > Operator "Thank you for calling Pizza Hut . May I have your..." > > Customer: "Hello, can I order.." Operator : "Can I have your multi purpose > ID card number first, Sir?" > > Customer: "It's he..., > hold........ ...on.... ..88986135610204 9998-45-54610" > > Operator : "OK... You're... Mr Singh and you're calling from 17 Jal Vayu. > Your home number is 22678893,your office 25076666 and your mobile is > 09869798888. Which number are you calling from now Sir?" > > Customer: "Home! How did you get all my phone numbers? > Operator : "We are connected to the system Sir" > > Customer: "May I order your Seafood Pizza..." > Operator : "That's not a good idea Sir" > > Customer: "How come?" > Operator : "According to your medical records, you have high blood pressure > and even higher cholesterol level Sir" > > Customer: "What?... What do you recommend then?" > Operator : "Try our Low Fat Pizza. You'll like it" > > Customer: "How do you know for sure?" > Operator : "You borrowed a book entitled "Popular Dishes" from the National > Library last week Sir" > > Customer: "OK I give up... Give me three family size ones then, how much > will that cost?" > Operator : "That should be enough for your family of 05, Sir. The total is > Rs 500.00" > > Customer: "Can I pay by! Credit card?" > Operator : "I'm afraid you have to pay us cash, > Sir. Your credit card is over the limit and you owe your bank Rs 23,000.75 > since October last year. That's not including the late payment charges on > your housing loan, Sir.." > > Customer: "I guess I have to run to the neighbourhood ATM and withdraw some > cash before your guy arrives" Operator : "You can't Sir. Based on the > records,you' ve reached your daily limit on machine withdrawal today" > > Customer: "Never mind just send the pizzas, I'll have the cash ready. How > long is it gonna take anyway?" > Operator : "About 45 minutes Sir, but if you can't wait you can > always come and collect it on your Nano Car..." > > Customer: " What!" > Operator : "According to the details in system ,you own a Nano > car,...registration number GZ-05-AB-1107. ." > > Customer: " ????" > Operator : "Is there anything else Sir?" > > Customer: "Nothing... By the way... Aren't you giving me that 3 > free bottles of cola as advertised?" > > Operator : "We normally would Sir, but based on your records > you're also diabetic.... ... > > Customer: #$$^%&$@$% > Operator : "Better watch your language Sir.. Remember on 15th July 2010 you > were convicted of using abusive language on a policeman... ?" > > Customer: [Faints] > > > __._,_.___ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Rajen. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 13 16:39:28 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:09:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Laxman Rao - Author, Tea Seller and an Inspiring Hero Message-ID: <755884.68493.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> "Author, Tea Seller and an Inspiring Hero"   Meet Laxman Rao. He sells tea on the roadside in Delhi. He is also an author, having penned 20 novels in Hindi so far. What’s more, Hindi is not even his mother tongue! Laxman originally hailed from Maharashtra and has settled down in Delhi, running a tea stall. His interest in writing manifested in the form of a book in the late 70s when he published his first novel Nayi Duniya Ki Nayi Kahani.   A meeting with Indira Gandhi in 1984 led him to write the play Pradhan Mantri. His other novels include Parampara Se Judi Bharatiya Rajniti, Pattiyon ki Sarsarahat and Ramdas   When he wrote his first book, no publisher was ready to give him a second glance. After numerous failed attempts at getting the book published, Laxman decided to take the task upon himself. He got the book printed at his own cost and then set out to market it as well! Since then, Laxman has been printing his books and distributing them to various organizations. His books are available at the Delhi Public Library and many school libraries.   Laxman’s penchant for writing started early in his life, during his school years. Since then, he has read a great deal including the works of Gulshan Nanda, Mahatma Gandhi, Shakespeare and many more. By virtue of his novels, Laxman has had the chance to meet Indira Gandhi and recently President Pratibha Patil. Winner of the Inderprastha Sahitya Bharti Award, Laxman is an inspiration for many of us!   http://www.thebetterindia.com/tags/laxman-rao/     From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 16:45:39 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:45:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] universal civil code In-Reply-To: <610138.35505.qm@web39103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <56D568858E3F48CF9C349D6FB965D209@tara> <610138.35505.qm@web39103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908130415k590a1246g1c5b3499bfbda0b4@mail.gmail.com> Light from the star, and all in the list, the following are the Acts which govern different citizens of the nation on the basis of faith:- Hindu Succession Act, Hindu Marriage Act; Muslim marriage Act and Christian marriage act are no more in statute, replaced by Special marriages Act, which covers registration aspects of marriage so as to be the marriage is legally recognized between different individuals of different faith, so also separation., rights of the separated. Criminal procedure code is common to all citizens irrespective of their faiths, civil procedure code for hindus and others is different as as per muslim and christian weddings , they are marriage contracts solemnised by a clergy.Here, please note, the marriage is a contract, with a nikah nama, / registered in church and hence divorce is within the the two contracted persons to terminate as the procedure is available for such divorce.In practise, the divorce is most misused weapon of the male dominated society, is the truth. Regards, Rajen. On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 11:12 AM, A.K. Malik wrote: > Dear Mr Tara Prakash, > There are three distinct marriage act-Hindu Marriage > Act,1955; Dissolution of Muslim Marriage Act (perhaps 1938 or so), Christian > Marriage Act. However there is a Special Marriage Act for any citizen > getting married in Court by The Registrar of Marriages who is usually a > designated Judicial Officer from the State Judicial Service.This requires > giving one month's notice so that anyone having objection can intervene. > Another thing being talked about is UNIFORM CIVIL CODE which the BJP is > advocating so that the same laws apply to people of all religions in the > country. > Regards, > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > --- On Wed, 8/12/09, taraprakash wrote: > > > From: taraprakash > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] universal civil code > > To: "Rakesh Iyer" > > Cc: "sarai list" > > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 9:49 PM > > Well, no, I can't. May be it is > > called Hindu Marriage Act, or something sounding like that. > > But there is an act which covers the marriages of all the > > "Hindus" Or maybe all not covered by personal law boards. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Rakesh Iyer > > To: taraprakash > > Cc: Murali V ; sarai list > > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:38 AM > > Subject: Re: universal civil code > > > > > > Dear Taraprakash > > > > Can you put the text of this 'Hindu undivided > > families Act' on the list? This is because I didn't find any > > act with such a name. What I did get is the Hindu marriage > > act and of course, the Hindu Code Bill. The Hindu undivided > > families (HUF) can apply for an income tax exemption, is the > > only information I got about this. > > > > Regards > > > > Rakesh > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- Rajen. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 13 16:50:44 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:20:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] more on Laxman Rao Message-ID: <688144.39456.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> 1. "More than his cup of tea"   (Nalini Ranjan meets Laxman Rao, a Hindi writer who runs a tea stall to sustain himself)   At first glance, one may pass him off as a chaiwala (tea vendor), but even a casual chat with him is enough to grab your attention. He sounds like a political commentator, argues like a philosopher and talks about his creative works like a critic. Fiftyone-year-old Laxman Rao runs his own publishing house, Bharatiya Sahitya Kala Prakashan, from Vishnu Digambar Marg, ITO, Delhi.   Situated between the Punjabi Academy and Hindi Bhavan, Rao prepares and serves tea from his roadside tea stall under the open sky. To customers who throng his wayside shop, he boasts of having written 18 books so far, including a variety of novels and plays.   In his first title, Nayi Duniya Ki Nayi Kahani, he wrote in 1979, he narrated the hardships that he faced and the massive will he mustered to elevate, and then sustain himself as a writer. His play, Pradhan Mantri written in 1984, was an outcome of his encounter with then Prime Minister late Indira Gandhi at the Teen Murti Bhawan in 1984. "I completed the play in three months. The plot portrays the Prime Minister in a social set-up with her subordinates responsible for corruption. I was thinking of gifting the first published copy to her, when the news of her sudden death shocked the entire nation." He published his next novel, Ramdas, in 1992. It was sold in over 200 schools in Delhi. Recently, he was conferred with Inderprastha Sahitya Bharti Award. In Parampara Se Judi Bharatiya Rajniti, Rao has incorporated the experiences of his struggle.   Born in a family of farmers in Amravati district, Maharastra, on July 22, 1954, Rao’s fondness for Hindi literature saw him complete his matriculation in Hindi medium from Mumbai University in 1973. "In Class VII, I got addicted to Gulshan Nanda’s novels. Pundits of literature never recognised his writings but they proved very useful for me to write lucidly in Hindi."   As a child, Rao was quite fond of reading but the thought of becoming a writer never crossed his mind. A young boy, Ramdas, was drowned while taking a bath in the river. The incident was such a shock that Rao looked for an outlet to vent his intense pain and he decided to write.   Circumstances forced him to give up studies after Class X and he began working in a local spinning mill to earn extra money. After the closure of the mill, he started assisting his father in the fields. "I was never at peace with myself. I was scared of calling it quits and surrendering to life’s trials," he recalls. With Rs 40 in his pocket, he left his hometown and headed for Bhopal in 1975 in search of greener pastures. He worked as a labourer at a construction site but as he says, "I did not let the tribulations demoralise me. After a couple of months, the fear of losing my creativity made me board the train to Delhi. I landed here on July 30, 1975."   After wandering about jobless for some time, he sought shelter for three days at the guest house in Birla Mandir. During the day, he worked as a mason at construction sites and washed dishes at a roadside tea stall.   Daryaganj’s famous Sunday Market became a hunting ground for Rao. He read works of Mahatma Gandhi, Jawaharlal Nehru, Karl Marx, William Shakespeare and Lenin. Realising the need to educate himself, he gradually aquired a Bachelor of Arts from Delhi University as an external candidate.   Rao will never forget the day he was preparing for his exams sitting at his kiosk, when a demolition squad of the Municipal Corporation of Delhi (MCD) came. The kiosk was given to him by Pepsico. "They razed my kiosk on July 19, 1999 terming it illegal. It shattered me and was the most painful time of my life. I applied for the kiosk again in 1981, with supporting documents, including court and MCD challans, but the authorities were apathetic."   Laxman’s writings are woven around ground realities of life. As he says, "I have led a turbulent life and I understand the intensity of feelings of others in similar circumstances. My books epitomise the struggle and triumphs of ordinary people in a realistic manner."   Rao recounts the rejection that he faced repeatedly, "I approached a number of publishers in Daryaganj but all of them, on one pretext or the other, turned me away. One of them even said ‘get out’. Now he is his own printer, publisher and distributor.   He lives in a rented house in Shakarpur in East Delhi with his wife and two sons, Hitesh and Paresh, and is now busy writing Pattiyon ki Sarsarahat.   Today Rao’s books can be found in various branches of the Delhi Public Library and at some school libraries. Despite making a name for himself, he has not earned from his writings. Whatever he earns from the sale of one book goes into publishing the next one. "My wife Rekha is my best critic. She often gets frustrated and says if you still have to sell chai and paan, why write? But I know she is proud of me as a writer and as a responsible father and husband," he says. The plight of Rao is a comment on the system which does not value creativity.   http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20051120/society.htm#1       2. "Brewing up Books"   BY Avantika Bhuyan   (Laxman Rao, a tea stall owner, has written 20 novels in Hindi, which is not his mother tongue )   Sound of gurgling laughter emanates from the tea stall located on Vishnu Digambar Marg in Central Delhi. Surrounded by his customers is the owner of the stall, an unassuming Laxman Rao. It is evident that he is very popular. But there is something more to this man. In the night, Rao will sit down and write for three hours on one of his novels. It’s a craft which has made this tea stall owner pen 20 novels, of which eight have been published.   “I buy all provisions for the stall by 9 in the morning,” he says. “After that I visit schools and colleges to market my books.” His eager customers get a glimpse of him only in the afternoon when he sheds his crisp business-like persona to once again become a friend and advisor to them. “I devote two to three hours in the night to writing. It is only at that time of the day that I want to be alone with my thoughts and hence I request my family and friends not to disturb me,” says Rao.   His first book, Nayi Duniya Ki Nayi Kahani printed in 1979, took a look at the swift transformations taking place in the common man’s life. Rao usually draws from personal experiences while writing a book. For instance, Ramdas, which came out in 1992, was about a boy from Rao’s village who had drowned in the river. His latest, Abhivyakti, will soon be out.   Originally from Amravati, Maharashtra, Rao moved out in 1975 in search of better employment. “I used to work in a mill. After the drought I went to Bhopal. My friends had told me that to make it big in Hindi literature I should stay in a Hindi-speaking state for a while.” But Bhopal didn’t appeal to him and he shifted to Delhi where he created a platform on Vishnu Digambar Marg to sell tea. The writer in him was aching to come out and soon he began work on his first novel.   He went from one publishing house to another in a bid to get his novel printed. None of the publishing houses even glanced at his manuscript, some even told him that they would publish his book only if he gave them money. Rao, however, refused to let this disappointment break his spirit. He went ahead and published the books on his own.   Little did he know that his efforts would win him an invite to meet President Pratibha Patil at the Rashtrapati Bhavan. “I got a call from the President’s office at the end of July. I just couldn’t believe it. Pratibhaji had read my novel Renu, and was very impressed,” he says. The meeting which was only meant to last a couple of moments stretched on to 20 minutes.   http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/real-india/brewing-up-books   From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 17:13:16 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:13:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908130339x1dcee0e1t4c2cc98ad48b775e@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00908130115w6d6e8713y757a055c29dcd941@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908130159ie4d8b6doa64f86096a8c4525@mail.gmail.com> <15317.46661.qm@web94709.mail.in2.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908130313i46ed54fcn260a229de7fb17a1@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908130339x1dcee0e1t4c2cc98ad48b775e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Whether the US has any business to say it or not may be a different question, but Indian Muslims have had a mixed record as far as their life in India is concerned. And Murali ji, Pakistan is not the benchmark in every field for India to achieve. That seems to be the case as far as you are concerned. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 17:59:39 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:59:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Laxman Rao - Author, Tea Seller and an Inspiring Hero In-Reply-To: <755884.68493.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <755884.68493.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6353c690908130529v7492eddck15a162abfcb617e9@mail.gmail.com> Fortunately, I've been in very close association with Laxman Rao ji for last few months. Last month, he was invited by President Patil to Rashtrapati Bhawan to discuss his creative zeal of writing. A couple of months back Mass Communication students of Jamia MCRC made a documentary on him. I salute his courage. P.S. - The latest issue of OPEN magazine has an article on him. regards On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 4:39 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > "Author, Tea Seller and an Inspiring Hero" > > Meet Laxman Rao. He sells tea on the roadside in Delhi. He is also an > author, having penned 20 novels in Hindi so far. What’s more, Hindi is not > even his mother tongue! Laxman originally hailed from Maharashtra and has > settled down in Delhi, running a tea stall. His interest in writing > manifested in the form of a book in the late 70s when he published his first > novel Nayi Duniya Ki Nayi Kahani. > > A meeting with Indira Gandhi in 1984 led him to write the play Pradhan > Mantri. His other novels include Parampara Se Judi Bharatiya Rajniti, > Pattiyon ki Sarsarahat and Ramdas > > When he wrote his first book, no publisher was ready to give him a second > glance. After numerous failed attempts at getting the book published, Laxman > decided to take the task upon himself. He got the book printed at his own > cost and then set out to market it as well! Since then, Laxman has been > printing his books and distributing them to various organizations. His books > are available at the Delhi Public Library and many school libraries. > > Laxman’s penchant for writing started early in his life, during his school > years. Since then, he has read a great deal including the works of Gulshan > Nanda, Mahatma Gandhi, Shakespeare and many more. By virtue of his novels, > Laxman has had the chance to meet Indira Gandhi and recently President > Pratibha Patil. Winner of the Inderprastha Sahitya Bharti Award, Laxman is > an inspiration for many of us! > > http://www.thebetterindia.com/tags/laxman-rao/ > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- Aditya Raj Kaul Freelance Writer Cell - +91-9873297834 Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Aug 13 18:06:19 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:36:19 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] ordering Pizza with your UID In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908130404r127c6cd9q46d1e6c37e8f431@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560908130404r127c6cd9q46d1e6c37e8f431@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40908130536x47e81751v404c93064cb2a882@mail.gmail.com> Dear Javed, I don't why but we seem to be circulating the same text on the reader-list again and again. Your mail, titled, Ordering Pizza with your UID seems similar to a post I made almost a month back, which was titled as, Someone should forward this to Nandan Nilekani :) [ http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2009-July/021000.html ]. Which was followed by, Kabbi Sherman's mail, a few days ago, titled, Nandan Nilekani at His Best: UID Card/No. [ http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2009-August/021727.html ] I sincerely appreciate your gesture, however the circulation of the same text in the cyber world under different titles, and its movement in different social networks is interesting to observe and perhaps think about, ways in which the idea of social nodes, networks, circulation, circuits, locations, notions of original, copy, authorship and so on interacts and entangle... Many thanks indeed!! Warm regards Taha From pkray11 at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 18:17:39 2009 From: pkray11 at gmail.com (prakash ray) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:17:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] She with her 8-month old daughter to be sold in Ajmer. Message-ID: <98f331e00908130547r25a642b9id5a0ae3cbd2b8f0f@mail.gmail.com> She was married in her childhood. When she became adult, she married another person with the consent of all families including her first 'husband''s family. She gave birth to a girl-child. Both wife and husband are labourers. Suddenly the Caste Panchyat and powerful men term this marriage 'illegal'. A punishment was declared: Either pay fine to the 'Panchayat' or this money will be recovered by a public auction of the woman and her daughter. Meanwhile, her family won't be allowed to use hand-pump and other community facilities. No one will buy milk from her. She or her husband or other members of family will not get work under the National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme. Local MLA and MP (an Union Minister) have been contacted but there is no response. The administration has not provided any relief to the family. A reporter from a TV channel asks her: Mehraj, will you fight against this tyranny or accept the 'judgement'? Mehraj: I will fight till my last breath. Her daughter in her arms is smiling. Amazed me remembering a poem by Ashok Vajpayee. कोई नहीं सुनता पुकार-- सुनती है कान खड़े कर सीढियों पर चौकन्नी खड़ी बिल्ली, जिसे ठीक से पता नहीं कि डर कर भाग जाना चाहिए या ठिठककर एकटक उस ओर देखना चाहिए। कोई नहीं सुनता चीख़-- सुनती है खिड़की के बाहर हरियाये पेड़ पर अचानक आ गई नीली चिड़िया, जिसे पता नहीं कि यह चीख़ है या कि आवाज़ों के तुमुल में से एक और आवाज़। कोई नहीं सुनता प्रार्थना-- सुनती है अपने पालने में लेटी दुधमुंही बच्ची, जो आदिम अंधेरे से निकलकर उजाले में आने पर इतनी भौंचक है कि उसके लिए अभी आवाज़ होने, न होने के बीच का सुनसान है। From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 13 18:26:09 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 05:56:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <722442.13451.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Agree with Rakesh that whether or not any USA body has the business is not pertinent.   We in India should be thankful that someone or the other is constantly reminding us on these issues.   We in India should be ashamed that we have placed ourselves in a position that others need to remind us of our failings.   Also agree with Rakesh that Pakistan is no benchmark.   There cannot be any benchmark in justifying failure of the country towards it's citizens. There cannot be any competition in such matters. That would be ridiculous.   Totally disagree with Rakesh's attitude of highlighting only the Indian Muslim case.  That is counter-productive and guaranteed to provoke equally blinkered reactions and responses and lead to meaningless bickering.   In India, experiences should have taught us that being a 'religious minority' is an identity that can vary from state to state and is not the exclusive  preserve of any single religion. Also that, 'religion' might not always dictate the 'minority status' but might be tagged to economic-class, caste etc, each with it's own unique set of abuses suffered.   In India, we might also like to consider that in some scenarios, 'minority numbers' lay seige to cornering for themselves exclusively or largely the Freedoms and Rights that should be available to all citizens.   Kshmendra        --- On Thu, 8/13/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: From: Rakesh Iyer Subject: Re: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately To: "Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi" Cc: "sarai list" Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 5:13 PM Whether the US has any business to say it or not may be a different question, but Indian Muslims have had a mixed record as far as their life in India is concerned. And Murali ji, Pakistan is not the benchmark in every field for India to achieve. That seems to be the case as far as you are concerned. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 13 18:44:35 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:14:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn In-Reply-To: <341380d00908130019m1090d9edkbc109fe97006049f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <823583.97663.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Please Mr Anupam, Stop making silly comments and mind your language.I have not used any intemperate language. In a civil society you are supposed to be decent in language especially in discussion fora.If you have not been able to understand the analogy, it is not my fault.I will still advise you not to be personal. However, as a precaution, I will see not to respond to you in future. Still with regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Thu, 8/13/09, anupam chakravartty wrote: > From: anupam chakravartty > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn > To: "sarai list" > Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 12:49 PM > Dear Mr Malik, > with your skewed metaphor of rebuking a child, i am sure > you are a > neighbourhood bully or something like that. you should be > jailed for beating > up children in your neighbourhood. :) > Actually what are trying to say? That people from majority > are also > discriminated. Offcourse they are but it can only happen > when they (in > whatever situation) the person from the majority community > is singled out or > marginalised or weak. It doesnt have to be an attack from > minority (which is > religious). But keeping that aspect in mind, the privileges > for the > minorities have been extended because they can participate > in the > functioning of the nation. dont think that you only have > the right to go and > rebuke other's children. and please do not beat up your > child and turn him > into a goon. ok? > -anupam > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 12:15 PM, A.K. Malik > wrote: > > > Dear Mr Anupam, > >                >   It seems you have mixed up the issue of > > discrimination.What are you are writing for a phone > booth doesn't come from > > a Statute book, it is pure commercial sense and > economics. You don't have a > > right to have a telephone booth installed even if you > don't like carrying a > > Mobile Phone. But you do have a right if you are > discriminated against under > > Art 14 of the Constitution. In case of minorities as > you have read there is > > the Minorities Commission where ONLY minority religion > person can be a > > complainant.My only appeal was that such a Commission > should be available to > > all citizens including majority.What is wrong with > this? Have you never seen > > any majority person being discriminated against? OUR > country is perhaps the > > only one in this world where minorities have more > rights and priviledges > > LEGALLY than the majority and there are more > proponents of these priviledges > > to minorities.(Realty may perhaps be different). > > I understand the real situation-if you rebuke your own > child, it is no > > issue at all,but if you do the same to your > neighbour's child it is a big > > issue and can even be taken to a Minorities Commission > if the child happens > > to be  from minority. > > Regards, > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > > > > --- On Wed, 8/12/09, anupam chakravartty > wrote: > > > > > From: anupam chakravartty > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes > a U turn > > > To: "sarai list" > > > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 1:35 AM > > > Dear Malik jee, > > > The idea of having reverse discrimination can > only be > > > realised if there is > > > discrimination. We do have a judiciary to take > care of > > > that. The idea of > > > discrimination is an elusive one. There can be > also > > > discrimination against > > > people who do not want to use a mobile phone and > instead > > > depends on Public > > > Call Booths because the larger society opted for > cellular > > > phones. How have > > > we accomodated people without mobile phones in > the society? > > > But not many us > > > are ready to complain because we accomodate > technological > > > marvels of certain > > > group of people involved in designing them for us > so that > > > it brings us > > > benefits. But we do have the right to reject them > on the > > > grounds that I dont > > > want to be mobile with a phone, of all things. So > what am i > > > left with? Say I > > > am stuck in East of Kailash, and there is not a > single > > > phone booth around > > > here to make a phone call. I have the option of > walking > > > only ( as i have > > > only twenty bucks in my pocket) to AIIMS. I bet > my last > > > tenner for you, i am > > > sure you can theorise on this. > > > What you call small means a lot to me. Someone > getting > > > discriminated doesnt > > > have to neccesarily conform to vote bank > politics. I guess > > > such arguments > > > can also exist independently out of the > mainstream > > > political scenario. A > > > person not getting a shelter because of a > societal rule in > > > an urban area > > > where crores of people work, get their wages, > steal, beg, > > > borrow, live, shit > > > is something horrible. > > > -Anupam > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:58 AM, A.K. Malik > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr Sengupta, > > > > > > >   What I wanted to emphasize was > small issues do come > > > up and > > > > they need not necessarily be taken as being > based on > > > religion.The example I > > > > gave was to let the people know if you a > right, others > > > too have a right. In > > > > the experience of the Society, to the best > of my > > > knowledge Muslims were not > > > > barred.I never made an issue because I > understand the > > > people who have formed > > > > a Society have certain rights.Even if I > wished to make > > > an issue, I couldn't > > > > have because I belong to the majority > community and as > > > such have no > > > > Commission where I could have made a > complaint. > > > > Don't you think the reverse discrimination > never > > > happens, but I have yet to > > > > see anyone highlighting it. > > > > Would not it have been more appropriate if > the Govt > > > had created a > > > > Discrimination Commission( or > Anti-Discrimination > > > Commission) where every > > > > citizen who was discriminated against could > go and > > > file an application > > > > instead of a Minorities Commission  and > such > > > other Commissions? But ,Sir > > > > that won't have given the ruling political > party vote > > > banks. > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 8/11/09, subhrodip sengupta > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: subhrodip sengupta > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran > Hashmi takes > > > a U turn > > > > > To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > > > > Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 6:00 > PM > > > > > Hashmi dd not complaint against one > > > > > person alone, being a popular actor, > especially > > > in the > > > > > present youth he forwarded a point. > There's > > > nothing wrong in > > > > > not lending your house to a mohammadan. > There's > > > nothing wron > > > > > when a MOHAMMEDAN STANDS AND SHELTERS > EXCLUSIVELY > > > ANOTHER, > > > > > BE HE A TERRORIST! I do not support > terrorist but > > > if your > > > > > logic alone need work, sheltering > terrorist is nt > > > a crime. . > > > > > ...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > From: subhrodip sengupta > > > > > To: Murali V ; > > > > > Rakesh Iyer > > > > > Cc: Sarai List > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 3:15:02 > PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran > Hashmi takes > > > a U turn > > > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > Thanks for your interesting comments > which does > > > not let one > > > > > fall silent. > > > > > Let me go by your arguments, a group of > Brahmins, > > > possibly > > > > > marathis who are vegetarians. > > > > > So, what makes up a hindu bramhin, > things he /she > > > does, a > > > > > lower acste what they do....... > > > > > One wont believe it nowadays, but more > than five > > > decades > > > > > ago, Muslims were marked by their > consumption of > > > onion, and > > > > > in reverse, only lower caste and > Muslims swere > > > supposed to > > > > > consume raw onions! Then I assume these > BRahmins, > > > or god > > > > > knows whoever they are; are > discriminating > > > against not only > > > > > muslims > > > alone........................................... > > > > > Fine for those who believe Constitution > is just > > > another book > > > > > of rules which need to be bent as we > like, > > > Article on > > > > > equality is very clear on this, but for > those who > > > look for > > > > > social consciousness and outcomes, it's > not just > > > > > distracting, but rather alarming. How > will these > > > people live > > > > > when one of their daughter's shall > reveal she has > > > had had > > > > > sex with a mohammedan and a christian, > apart from > > > 3 other > > > > > hindu boys? Will then they resort to > more basic > > > methods of > > > > > public retribution and disgracing? > Alas. > > > Interestingly > > > > > nether the fal wallahs nor the sweepers > are > > > > > Brahmins........... As for Beef > consumption, > > > > > Consumption of nothing in my house can > make yours > > > impure, > > > > > these society wallahs, should have more > sense > > > than > > > > > conducting Raam Leelas, Hanuman pujas , > where > > > interestingly > > > > > revel is there, something which they > stay should > > > be behind > > > > > doors.,........... > > > > > I have beef inside my house no strong > smell > > > disturrrbs you, > > > > > it's finer than lift does not work, > water supply > > > does not > > > > > come, to the latter they should > restrict their > > > problem. What > > > > > about consumption of liquor. Then they > should > > > have things > > > > > like surprise checks. Let me not go > into > > > frivolous things, > > > > > if the argument is correct, they are > actually > > > committing a > > > > > bigger crime, a prejudice and friction > against a > > > bigger > > > > > section of society. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Hashmi: > > > > > Any one who now a days stands up is > first accused > > > of trying > > > > > to attain cheap publicity, even shiny > ahuja's > > > maid! Fine as > > > > > a statement from dominant ones who'd > else loose > > > power, but > > > > > we buying into such things. Things are > pretty > > > clear it is > > > > > assumed.......(on what basis?) > > > > > > > > > > He has been a bold-based actor. Is it > less > > > amusing that > > > > > his case such people as who date > married, women, > > > bring in > > > > > joys, challenge social perceptions, or > even do > > > bold roles in > > > > > movies are cheap. But lest be sure lets > pass one > > > resolution, > > > > > they are not prostitutes, many of us > would have > > > to apply for > > > > > license then, being students orf > social > > > > > experiments.......... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,(hopefully I got more audience > for this > > > despicable, > > > > > cheap actor who behaves like what > onstage) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > & LOVE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subhrodip > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > From: Murali V > > > > > To: Rakesh Iyer > > > > > Cc: Sarai List > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 1:33:10 > PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran > Hashmi takes > > > a U turn > > > > > > > > > > If I were to explain further on > Malik's > > > statement, If > > > > > somebody is rejected > > > > > because of being a non-vegetarian, and > if the > > > person > > > > > happens to belong to a > > > > > minority community, I am sure, it would > be > > > twisted to be > > > > > one because of > > > > > being in the community and all hell > would be let > > > loose by > > > > > the > > > > > Pseudo-seculars and the media. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > V Murali > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Rakesh > Iyer > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I only hope it's for the sake of > disallowing > > > the > > > > > non-vegetarians and not > > > > > > for disallowing the Muslims. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and > > > the > > > > > city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >       Yahoo! > recommends > > > that you upgrade to the new and > > > > > safer Internet Explorer 8. > > > > http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and > > > the > > > > > city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >       See the > Web's > > > breaking stories, > > > > > chosen by people like you. Check out > Yahoo! > > > Buzz. > > > > http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and > > > the > > > > > city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and the > > > city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the > > > city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From c.anupam at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 18:54:00 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:54:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908130401o10a6776ah6545c763a9b5fad0@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560908100251m61055704t1d54be26379d0bd8@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908100331n1c28c00ehd849fbf88e866741@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908120441h71e24400p80e27b3c08e86af0@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908120515q56734bb8vd1d10ac58eb62f4e@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908130401o10a6776ah6545c763a9b5fad0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <341380d00908130624o69e47b3eg6af2fd6924819580@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for your words of encouragement. I shall engrave this on my wall. and trust me, your biases are very relevant in our times. I hope announcing one's biases in this reader's forum laced with historical vengeance is better than corrupting young minds with propaganda of extreme patrotism, hardening the spiritual self and turning into political demon. Killing meditative devotion with the sword of impassionate ideological stance. Unfortunately, liberated minds are those stripped of *gunas *or qualities. On 8/13/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi wrote: > > Anupam > > I am talking of a society where all of us live as citizens of India, > without reference to any faith, but if you choose to link it in any way, it > is your choice as free citizen of the nation.You can have the right of > expression to say peddling and any such lofty words which are normal in the > left parties and pseudo seculars, but for me, in India all > are Indians first, all other facets come later., without affecting the > character of the nation, to live in harmony. > > > The right to disagree is the basic tenet of a good system of democratic > rule, if you think you have a better idealogy, it is for you to explore it, > but having seen the socialist at work, communism at work and also populism > at work, my belief is in rule of laws, without fear or favour to any class, > caste or faith, even region. > > > If you have any misgivings and bias it is for you to search out the > answers instead of being parroting the same old half truths, lies. Criticism > is good, so I am neither displeased, nor unhappy as long it is not in the > form of violence, as harsh words only reflect your bad understanding, > illogical bias and reservations of mind to listen to other thoughts in a > discussion.Saint poet of Karnataka, Purandara Dasa has said in his divine > melodies, critics are needed in the society, only then a place of life will > be clean, as they scavenge all filth.Many such quotes are available in sufi > songs also. > > > If some choose to play with words, to criticise, that is perfectly alright > as it is the right of expression, you are expressing it in your style, keep > going......! : -) > > On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:45 PM, anupam chakravartty wrote: > >> Dear Rajen >> >> "society always recognizes that terrorist apprehended is muslim by name, >> but >> muslims are not terrorists." >> >> >> Which society are you referring to sir? People who you can incite by >> saying >> such things. speaking ill for one community in such a way is really >> horrible >> sir. you are a senior person here. you contradict the first line that you >> are citing: "propaganda by few for their livelihood is not new to society, >> but the individuals in society can feel the difference of the words and >> actions." >> >> >> I am individual whether u notice or not, i can say that you are peddling >> your RSS propaganda through this forum. You do it very consciously, making >> statements about the society and other such things. had you been a just, >> an >> unbiased person, you would NOT have said these lines. your problem with >> the >> muslims are historical, the present generation (people who earn their >> livelihoods from the muslim community) have not done anything wrong to you >> per se. why dont you speak against arun gawli, or violent MNS, or gujarati >> rioters who are seeking refuge in US and UK, absconding trial? these are >> also terrorists. they went around in jeeps plundering killing people >> across >> the fields. there are live footages of that as proof. because of the sick >> judiciary of gujarat, these cases have been turned into cliches. why would >> you speak? after all, you consider yourself to be this self styled >> preacher >> for the aspirational indian who wants to toil hard in the sun, and earn >> his >> own livelihood. your vested interest lies in the fact that you want to >> establish a land for hindus. you justify their actions as reactions. you >> have been doing so. please do not ask me show examples, because if i do >> you'd be defaced here. so stop spewing venom and yes this is very much a >> personal attack on you sir. it is utterly disgusting for me to read such >> views, however i consider this forum also as an outlet for expression. the >> democratic right that you use here to express your views also comes with >> duties. so please keep your propaganda aside. do not make these >> categorical >> judgements instead cite the particulars. it helps one to cite contrary >> also >> and then may be a decisive debate. this name-suggestion business in >> apprehending terrorist only lasts because these names are used/abused >> sometimes by their own community and on other occasions by people like >> you, >> who have these ideas that terrorists are some kind of alien race. NO they >> are very much from here, from this mind which has been poisoned by this >> sectarian politics. the underworld, the mafia, the ideological guerilla, >> the >> terrorists (islamic or hindu) are born out of conflicts. because we do not >> have conflict resolution mechanisms in place anywhere in the world. >> because >> we prefer the easy way out just by bombing, or sending young minds on to >> the >> seas to attack innocent people. >> >> i apologise if i am harsh here but your statements are beginning make me >> think i should discard india as a country. it should just seize to exist >> as >> the chinese have foolishly proposed. >> >> -anupam >> >> >> >> On 8/12/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi >> wrote: >> >> > Dear Javed, >> > propaganda by few for their livelihood is not new to society, but the >> > individuals in society can feel the difference of the words and actions. >> In >> > any organisation, when volunteers are many, some may be deviant, some >> > compliant, that is the reason, society always recognizes that terrorist >> > apprehended is muslim by name, but muslims are not terrorists.Like any >> > other >> > deviants some on the fringes may feel that they have to retaliate the >> > violence, but what individuals in society fail to understand is violence >> > only breeds more of it. There are enough propaganda and speeches that go >> on >> > in society, after nammaaz I also had to bear the hate speech on the >> > loudspeakers regularly but that does not mean that mulsims are preaching >> > hatred, only some mullas do it for their collecton to soar.! >> > >> > And there are new type of evangelists who are "chrstian brahmins" who >> > preach "vedas" for the gullible, with foreign funds,as the new bible of >> > Veda.! >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Rajen. >> > >> > On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 7:07 PM, Javed wrote: >> > >> > > Dear Rajen >> > > You say that "RSS does not hate Muslims or Christians", but you seem >> > > to be ignoring all the hate-propaganda literature that is produced by >> > > RSS and its allies, and the fact that RSS shakhas in small towns >> > > brainwash little children against Muslims. Have you seen these 2 >> > > documentary films called "Boys in the Branch" and "Men in the Trees" >> > > (directed by Lalit Vachani) that explore exactly how the RSS >> > > infiltrates the minds of youngsters. Do watch them if you can. >> > > Working for the nation is fine, but at whose cost? >> > > >> > > J >> > > >> > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Rajendra Bhat >> > > Uppinangadi wrote: >> > > > Rakesh jee, >> > > > you have your intellect to analyse and judge, you are free citizen >> of >> > > > India, but your sweeping judgement of RSS is absolutely wrong, and >> you >> > > are >> > > > entitled to your views, but alteast have the patience to see the >> > working >> > > of >> > > > RSS before you start quoting from the articles of regular baiters >> like >> > > > Ashish Nandy and the tribe of pseudo -seculars, let me re-assert, >> RSS >> > > does >> > > > not hate muslims or christians, RSS men and women are volantary men >> and >> > > > women who work for the nation , that too with the hope that the wall >> in >> > > the >> > > > partition of 1947 will be brought down, all live with harmony and >> peace >> > > > irrespective of their faith, no faith followers dominating the >> > "majority" >> > > or >> > > > "minority" on the basis of faith, converting from faiths to garner >> > votes >> > > > with vote banks. >> > > > Muslims demanded partition and got it, but worked and struggled with >> > all >> > > > against slavery and the British rule, but the land mass was not >> loot >> > > after >> > > > robbery to be distributed after freedom. Only 23 percent went to the >> > > > partitioned land, rest assured the leaders and the nation that they >> > will >> > > be >> > > > living harmoniously with their hindu brothers, but we have seen the >> > > deviant >> > > > in them, and the silent majority of muslims tolerating such deviants >> > with >> > > > NGOs. >> > > > As to the deviants of the lot, they are emboldened by the fact that >> > they >> > > > though, in very small quantum, numerically, have supporters in so >> > > > called pseudo seculars who have love of freedom to fight for any >> faith >> > as >> > > > legal., but not hindu, because then it is communal, not secular.! >> > > > Regards, >> > > > Rajen. >> > > > >> > > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Rakesh Iyer < >> rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com> >> > > wrote: >> > > >> >> > > >> Dear Rajen jee >> > > >> >> > > >> While it certainly is a questionable practice not to declassify the >> > > >> documents of intelligence of about more than 30 years ago, you seem >> to >> > > make >> > > >> a complete mockery of the investigations in the Malegaon case, as >> if >> > > Hindus >> > > >> can not be party to any terror blasts within the country, more so >> > those >> > > who >> > > >> believe in the 'Hindutva' ideology. >> > > >> >> > > >> This is a wrong value-based position and I strongly disagree with >> it. >> > > One >> > > >> must not forget that the Sangh Parivar is such is based on the >> > > ideological >> > > >> position of disregarding the rights of the minorities to a life of >> > > dignity, >> > > >> and this is certainly a shame when compared with the ideals on >> which >> > the >> > > >> Indian Constitution was and is still based. (Unless of course you >> > > believe >> > > >> that the Constitution itself is a shame to begin with). >> > > >> >> > > >> Any matter must be thoroughly investigated and only after proper >> > > >> investigations should we derive conclusions from it. Whether it be >> > > Malegaon >> > > >> or Mumbai blasts, this should be the way to go. Also, if matters >> > > relating to >> > > >> the case are present in the public domain, they should be presented >> to >> > > the >> > > >> public from the point of view of both sides (the accuser and the >> > > accused). >> > > >> And specifically, if people have doubts regarding the direction or >> > > certain >> > > >> matters within the case, these can and should be raised in the >> media >> > and >> > > >> elsewhere for public discussion. >> > > >> >> > > >> The shameful part is that in India, when someone is claimed to be a >> > > >> terrorist, he/she is taken to be one irrespective of whether the >> final >> > > >> investigations indeed state the same or not. The basic notion of >> > > 'innocent >> > > >> until proven guilty' is reversed to be stated as 'guilty even if >> > termed >> > > >> innocent by courts' in such cases. Whether it be Geelani or Sadhvi >> > > Pragya >> > > >> Thakur, that has happened. I have not seen the concerned articles >> as >> > > >> mentioned by Mr. Puniyani, but I believe that unless one has >> evidence >> > to >> > > >> prove the judgement as wrong, or valid questions regarding the >> basis >> > on >> > > >> which the judgement was made, one should not make atrocious >> > allegations >> > > of >> > > >> this kind. >> > > >> >> > > >> Therefore, on the same grounds as I feel that Puniyani jee's side >> may >> > be >> > > >> wrong, I equally feel that your side can also be wrong. >> > > >> >> > > >> Regards >> > > >> >> > > >> Rakesh >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > -- >> > > > Rajen. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Rajen. >> >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > Rajen. > > > From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 13 19:11:54 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:41:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] universal civil code In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908130415k590a1246g1c5b3499bfbda0b4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <496232.61646.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Mr Uppinaangadi, Thanks for updating.To the best of my knowledge, the Christian Marriage Act had been repealed but The Dissolution of Muslim Marriage Act, 1939 had only certain sections repealed and then there were some amendments after the famous Shah Bano case.In case I get a chance I will check up and update, though it doesn't matter much in so far as the discussion is concerned. With best regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Thu, 8/13/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi wrote: > From: Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] universal civil code > To: "A.K. Malik" > Cc: "taraprakash" , "Sarai List" > Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 4:45 PM > Light from the star, and all > in the list, >  the following are the Acts which govern > different citizens of the nation on the basis of > faith:- > >    Hindu Succession Act, > >   Hindu Marriage Act; >   Muslim marriage Act and Christian marriage > act are no more in statute, replaced by Special marriages > Act, which covers registration aspects of marriage so as to > be the marriage is legally recognized between different > individuals of different faith, so also separation., rights > of the separated. > >  Criminal procedure code is common to all > citizens irrespective of their faiths, civil procedure code > for hindus and others is different as as per muslim and > christian weddings , they are marriage contracts solemnised > by a clergy.Here, please note, the marriage is a contract, > with a nikah nama, /  registered in church and hence > divorce is within the the two contracted persons to > terminate as the procedure is available for such divorce.In > practise, the divorce is most misused weapon of the male > dominated society, is the truth. > > Regards, Rajen. > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 11:12 AM, > A.K. Malik > wrote: > > Dear Mr Tara Prakash, > >                      There are three distinct > marriage act-Hindu Marriage Act,1955; Dissolution of Muslim > Marriage Act (perhaps 1938 or so), Christian Marriage Act. > However there is a Special Marriage Act for any citizen > getting married in Court by The Registrar of Marriages who > is usually a designated Judicial Officer from the State > Judicial Service.This requires giving one month's notice > so that anyone having objection can intervene. > > > Another thing being talked about is UNIFORM CIVIL CODE > which the BJP is advocating so that the same laws apply to > people of all religions in the country. > > Regards, > > > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > > > > --- On Wed, 8/12/09, taraprakash > wrote: > > > > > From: taraprakash > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] universal civil code > > > To: "Rakesh Iyer" > > > Cc: "sarai list" > > > > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 9:49 PM > > > Well, no, I can't. > May be it is > > > called Hindu Marriage Act, or something sounding like > that. > > > But there is an act which covers the marriages of all > the > > > "Hindus" Or maybe all not covered by > personal law boards. > > > > > > > > >   ----- Original Message ----- > > >   From: Rakesh Iyer > > >   To: taraprakash > > >   Cc: Murali V ; sarai list > > >   Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:38 AM > > >   Subject: Re: universal civil code > > > > > > > > >   Dear Taraprakash > > > > > >   Can you put the text of this 'Hindu undivided > > > families Act' on the list? This is because I > didn't find any > > > act with such a name. What I did get is the Hindu > marriage > > > act and of course, the Hindu Code Bill. The Hindu > undivided > > > families (HUF) can apply for an income tax exemption, > is the > > > only information I got about this. > > > > > >   Regards > > > > > >   Rakesh > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > > city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > -- > Rajen. > > > > From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 13 19:20:10 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:50:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn In-Reply-To: <341380d00908130019m1090d9edkbc109fe97006049f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <877933.56532.qm@web39104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Please Mr Anupam, Stop making silly comments and mind your language.I have not used any intemperate language. In a civil society you are supposed to be decent in language especially in discussion fora.If you have not been able to understand the analogy, it is not my fault.I will advise you not to be personal. However, as a precaution, I will see not to respond to you in future. Still with regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Thu, 8/13/09, anupam chakravartty wrote: > From: anupam chakravartty > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn > To: "sarai list" > Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 12:49 PM > Dear Mr Malik, > with your skewed metaphor of rebuking a child, i am sure > you are a > neighbourhood bully or something like that. you should be > jailed for beating > up children in your neighbourhood. :) > Actually what are trying to say? That people from majority > are also > discriminated. Offcourse they are but it can only happen > when they (in > whatever situation) the person from the majority community > is singled out or > marginalised or weak. It doesnt have to be an attack from > minority (which is > religious). But keeping that aspect in mind, the privileges > for the > minorities have been extended because they can participate > in the > functioning of the nation. dont think that you only have > the right to go and > rebuke other's children. and please do not beat up your > child and turn him > into a goon. ok? > -anupam > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 12:15 PM, A.K. Malik > wrote: > > > Dear Mr Anupam, > >                >   It seems you have mixed up the issue of > > discrimination.What are you are writing for a phone > booth doesn't come from > > a Statute book, it is pure commercial sense and > economics. You don't have a > > right to have a telephone booth installed even if you > don't like carrying a > > Mobile Phone. But you do have a right if you are > discriminated against under > > Art 14 of the Constitution. In case of minorities as > you have read there is > > the Minorities Commission where ONLY minority religion > person can be a > > complainant.My only appeal was that such a Commission > should be available to > > all citizens including majority.What is wrong with > this? Have you never seen > > any majority person being discriminated against? OUR > country is perhaps the > > only one in this world where minorities have more > rights and priviledges > > LEGALLY than the majority and there are more > proponents of these priviledges > > to minorities.(Realty may perhaps be different). > > I understand the real situation-if you rebuke your own > child, it is no > > issue at all,but if you do the same to your > neighbour's child it is a big > > issue and can even be taken to a Minorities Commission > if the child happens > > to be  from minority. > > Regards, > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > > > > --- On Wed, 8/12/09, anupam chakravartty > wrote: > > > > > From: anupam chakravartty > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes > a U turn > > > To: "sarai list" > > > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 1:35 AM > > > Dear Malik jee, > > > The idea of having reverse discrimination can > only be > > > realised if there is > > > discrimination. We do have a judiciary to take > care of > > > that. The idea of > > > discrimination is an elusive one. There can be > also > > > discrimination against > > > people who do not want to use a mobile phone and > instead > > > depends on Public > > > Call Booths because the larger society opted for > cellular > > > phones. How have > > > we accomodated people without mobile phones in > the society? > > > But not many us > > > are ready to complain because we accomodate > technological > > > marvels of certain > > > group of people involved in designing them for us > so that > > > it brings us > > > benefits. But we do have the right to reject them > on the > > > grounds that I dont > > > want to be mobile with a phone, of all things. So > what am i > > > left with? Say I > > > am stuck in East of Kailash, and there is not a > single > > > phone booth around > > > here to make a phone call. I have the option of > walking > > > only ( as i have > > > only twenty bucks in my pocket) to AIIMS. I bet > my last > > > tenner for you, i am > > > sure you can theorise on this. > > > What you call small means a lot to me. Someone > getting > > > discriminated doesnt > > > have to neccesarily conform to vote bank > politics. I guess > > > such arguments > > > can also exist independently out of the > mainstream > > > political scenario. A > > > person not getting a shelter because of a > societal rule in > > > an urban area > > > where crores of people work, get their wages, > steal, beg, > > > borrow, live, shit > > > is something horrible. > > > -Anupam > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:58 AM, A.K. Malik > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr Sengupta, > > > > > > >   What I wanted to emphasize was > small issues do come > > > up and > > > > they need not necessarily be taken as being > based on > > > religion.The example I > > > > gave was to let the people know if you a > right, others > > > too have a right. In > > > > the experience of the Society, to the best > of my > > > knowledge Muslims were not > > > > barred.I never made an issue because I > understand the > > > people who have formed > > > > a Society have certain rights.Even if I > wished to make > > > an issue, I couldn't > > > > have because I belong to the majority > community and as > > > such have no > > > > Commission where I could have made a > complaint. > > > > Don't you think the reverse discrimination > never > > > happens, but I have yet to > > > > see anyone highlighting it. > > > > Would not it have been more appropriate if > the Govt > > > had created a > > > > Discrimination Commission( or > Anti-Discrimination > > > Commission) where every > > > > citizen who was discriminated against could > go and > > > file an application > > > > instead of a Minorities Commission  and > such > > > other Commissions? But ,Sir > > > > that won't have given the ruling political > party vote > > > banks. > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 8/11/09, subhrodip sengupta > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: subhrodip sengupta > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran > Hashmi takes > > > a U turn > > > > > To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > > > > Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 6:00 > PM > > > > > Hashmi dd not complaint against one > > > > > person alone, being a popular actor, > especially > > > in the > > > > > present youth he forwarded a point. > There's > > > nothing wrong in > > > > > not lending your house to a mohammadan. > There's > > > nothing wron > > > > > when a MOHAMMEDAN STANDS AND SHELTERS > EXCLUSIVELY > > > ANOTHER, > > > > > BE HE A TERRORIST! I do not support > terrorist but > > > if your > > > > > logic alone need work, sheltering > terrorist is nt > > > a crime. . > > > > > ...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > From: subhrodip sengupta > > > > > To: Murali V ; > > > > > Rakesh Iyer > > > > > Cc: Sarai List > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 3:15:02 > PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran > Hashmi takes > > > a U turn > > > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > Thanks for your interesting comments > which does > > > not let one > > > > > fall silent. > > > > > Let me go by your arguments, a group of > Brahmins, > > > possibly > > > > > marathis who are vegetarians. > > > > > So, what makes up a hindu bramhin, > things he /she > > > does, a > > > > > lower acste what they do....... > > > > > One wont believe it nowadays, but more > than five > > > decades > > > > > ago, Muslims were marked by their > consumption of > > > onion, and > > > > > in reverse, only lower caste and > Muslims swere > > > supposed to > > > > > consume raw onions! Then I assume these > BRahmins, > > > or god > > > > > knows whoever they are; are > discriminating > > > against not only > > > > > muslims > > > alone........................................... > > > > > Fine for those who believe Constitution > is just > > > another book > > > > > of rules which need to be bent as we > like, > > > Article on > > > > > equality is very clear on this, but for > those who > > > look for > > > > > social consciousness and outcomes, it's > not just > > > > > distracting, but rather alarming. How > will these > > > people live > > > > > when one of their daughter's shall > reveal she has > > > had had > > > > > sex with a mohammedan and a christian, > apart from > > > 3 other > > > > > hindu boys? Will then they resort to > more basic > > > methods of > > > > > public retribution and disgracing? > Alas. > > > Interestingly > > > > > nether the fal wallahs nor the sweepers > are > > > > > Brahmins........... As for Beef > consumption, > > > > > Consumption of nothing in my house can > make yours > > > impure, > > > > > these society wallahs, should have more > sense > > > than > > > > > conducting Raam Leelas, Hanuman pujas , > where > > > interestingly > > > > > revel is there, something which they > stay should > > > be behind > > > > > doors.,........... > > > > > I have beef inside my house no strong > smell > > > disturrrbs you, > > > > > it's finer than lift does not work, > water supply > > > does not > > > > > come, to the latter they should > restrict their > > > problem. What > > > > > about consumption of liquor. Then they > should > > > have things > > > > > like surprise checks. Let me not go > into > > > frivolous things, > > > > > if the argument is correct, they are > actually > > > committing a > > > > > bigger crime, a prejudice and friction > against a > > > bigger > > > > > section of society. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Hashmi: > > > > > Any one who now a days stands up is > first accused > > > of trying > > > > > to attain cheap publicity, even shiny > ahuja's > > > maid! Fine as > > > > > a statement from dominant ones who'd > else loose > > > power, but > > > > > we buying into such things. Things are > pretty > > > clear it is > > > > > assumed.......(on what basis?) > > > > > > > > > > He has been a bold-based actor. Is it > less > > > amusing that > > > > > his case such people as who date > married, women, > > > bring in > > > > > joys, challenge social perceptions, or > even do > > > bold roles in > > > > > movies are cheap. But lest be sure lets > pass one > > > resolution, > > > > > they are not prostitutes, many of us > would have > > > to apply for > > > > > license then, being students orf > social > > > > > experiments.......... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,(hopefully I got more audience > for this > > > despicable, > > > > > cheap actor who behaves like what > onstage) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > & LOVE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subhrodip > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > From: Murali V > > > > > To: Rakesh Iyer > > > > > Cc: Sarai List > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 1:33:10 > PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran > Hashmi takes > > > a U turn > > > > > > > > > > If I were to explain further on > Malik's > > > statement, If > > > > > somebody is rejected > > > > > because of being a non-vegetarian, and > if the > > > person > > > > > happens to belong to a > > > > > minority community, I am sure, it would > be > > > twisted to be > > > > > one because of > > > > > being in the community and all hell > would be let > > > loose by > > > > > the > > > > > Pseudo-seculars and the media. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > V Murali > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Rakesh > Iyer > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I only hope it's for the sake of > disallowing > > > the > > > > > non-vegetarians and not > > > > > > for disallowing the Muslims. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and > > > the > > > > > city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >       Yahoo! > recommends > > > that you upgrade to the new and > > > > > safer Internet Explorer 8. > > > > http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and > > > the > > > > > city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >       See the > Web's > > > breaking stories, > > > > > chosen by people like you. Check out > Yahoo! > > > Buzz. > > > > http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and > > > the > > > > > city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and the > > > city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the > > > city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 20:03:57 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:03:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] universal civil code In-Reply-To: <496232.61646.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <7271ec560908130415k590a1246g1c5b3499bfbda0b4@mail.gmail.com> <496232.61646.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Well, now that we have had tons of discussion on the so-called different religious codes, can someone now specify why : 1) A uniform civil code is necessary, if at all 2) If it is necessary, the kind of things which should be a part of the code. Don't just beat around the bush, but be specific and clear. It's a request I make here. From taraprakash at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 21:41:57 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:11:57 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] universal civil code References: <838236.11530.qm@web39104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4581EE671D664247A327BB616D1F5741@tara> Thank Mr. Malik for this input, and also thanks Rakesh for forwarding the text of the act. The point of discussion is that if a certain community wants not to be governed by this act and wants its members to follow the law of the "khat panchayat" should they be allowed on the line of the minorities who are allowed to have their personal civil codes? What if these communities do not want to be considered as Hindus? ----- Original Message ----- From: "A.K. Malik" To: "taraprakash" Cc: "Sarai List" Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 1:28 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] universal civil code > Dear Mr Taraprakash, > IN almost all the cases there is no legal bar on the > marriages taking place. The Panchayats are putting their force on the > young couples unnecessarily like a person can't marry a girl from the same > village, same caste, same Gotra etc.The Hindu Marriage Act clearly defines > where it is prohibited.The Govt in power just can't dare take any action > because it is a very powerful and united community wtih lot of vote power > which can make or mar the chances of a Govt formation especially in > Haryana. > Regards > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > --- On Wed, 8/12/09, taraprakash wrote: > >> From: taraprakash >> Subject: [Reader-list] universal civil code >> To: "Rakesh Iyer" , "Murali V" >> >> Cc: "sarai list" >> Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 5:51 PM >> I believe we need to have a greater >> debate on this issue. Khat panchayats >> have added a new dimension to the debate on Civil code. >> Should the jaats be >> forced to follow marriage related laws under Hindu >> Undivided Family act? I >> would love to hear some views on this. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rakesh Iyer" >> To: "Murali V" >> Cc: "sarai list" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 5:06 AM >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: >> Malegaon Blast >> AccusedGet a Respite >> >> >> > Dear Murali >> > >> > Great idea, provided: >> > >> > 1) The civil code will be introduced based on points >> of public discussion, >> > after having heard out all views, and implemented only >> if it is approved >> > through a referendum. All people of India must be >> involved, as it concerns >> > them in particular, and must be encouraged to bring >> their choice to public >> > notice through means of referendum. >> > >> > 2) The civil code must be looked at every 15-20 years >> to see if things >> > have >> > to be changed or not (in suit to current realities). >> For example, 20 years >> > ago gay rights may not have been supported to the >> extent they are today. >> > That has to be recognized. The code must also be >> debated upon periodically >> > (not necessarily for changing) and on special >> occasions if changes have to >> > be brought. >> > >> > Infact, such a civil code will be most useful to >> minorities, unlike the >> > way >> > it is portrayed by Muslim fundamentalists. And the BJP >> should be >> > criticized >> > for not having thought about it when they were in >> power (although what >> > form >> > would that code have taken is something speculative). >> > >> > >> > Regards >> > >> > Rakesh >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 21:57:54 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:57:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Seminar on Perspective of Mental Sciences on LGBT, Aug 17, Bangalore Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- This is the Postfix program at host mail.sarai.net. I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be delivered to one or more recipients. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Chandni Parekh To: reader-list at sarai.net, post at psychologynews.posterous.com Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 Subject: Seminar on Perspective of Mental Sciences on Sexual Minorities, Aug 17, Bangalore Check http://bit.ly/3swnF for details. Excerpts: Seminar in Bangalore on *Perspective of mental sciences on sexual minorities* on *17th August, 2009*, Monday from *2 PM to 6 PM* *Speakers* include: *Dr. Shekhar Sheshadri* (NIMHANS), *Dr. Ali Khwaja*(Banjara Academy), *BN Sharada* (Parivarthan), *Arvind Narrain*(Alternative Law Forum) and *Vinay Chandran* (Swabhava Trust) Despite professional bodies such as the *American Psychiatric Association*, the *American Psychological Association* and the *World Health Organisation* *removing homosexuality from the list of mental illnesses almost thirty years ago; the myth that it is “abnormal”, a disease that needs to be cured or the product of maladjustment prevails.* This seminar aims to do this through a meeting with lay audience to dispel the misconceptions with the help of mental health professionals, and counsellors who will deal with the ethical, medical, scientific and human rights aspects of dealing with issues of homosexuality. From murali.chalam at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 22:33:31 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:33:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] She with her 8-month old daughter to be sold in Ajmer. In-Reply-To: <98f331e00908130547r25a642b9id5a0ae3cbd2b8f0f@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00908130547r25a642b9id5a0ae3cbd2b8f0f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908131003ife00e8ele19a188d45194d5a@mail.gmail.com> These are the type of politicians we elect who listen to our votes and turn deaf after that. Regards, V Murali On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:17 PM, prakash ray wrote: > She was married in her childhood. When she became adult, she married > another > person with the consent of all families including her first 'husband''s > family. She gave birth to a girl-child. Both wife and husband are > labourers. > > > Suddenly the Caste Panchyat and powerful men term this marriage 'illegal'. > A > punishment was declared: Either pay fine to the 'Panchayat' or this money > will be recovered by a public auction of the woman and her daughter. > Meanwhile, her family won't be allowed to use hand-pump and other community > facilities. No one will buy milk from her. She or her husband or other > members of family will not get work under the National Rural Employment > Guarantee Scheme. > > Local MLA and MP (an Union Minister) have been contacted but there is no > response. The administration has not provided any relief to the family. > > A reporter from a TV channel asks her: Mehraj, will you fight against this > tyranny or accept the 'judgement'? > > Mehraj: I will fight till my last breath. > > Her daughter in her arms is smiling. Amazed me remembering a poem by Ashok > Vajpayee. > > कोई नहीं सुनता पुकार-- > > सुनती है कान खड़े कर > > सीढियों पर चौकन्नी खड़ी बिल्ली, > > जिसे ठीक से पता नहीं कि > > डर कर भाग जाना चाहिए या > > ठिठककर एकटक उस ओर देखना चाहिए। > > > कोई नहीं सुनता चीख़-- > > सुनती है खिड़की के बाहर > > हरियाये पेड़ पर अचानक आ गई नीली चिड़िया, > > जिसे पता नहीं कि यह चीख़ है > > या कि आवाज़ों के तुमुल में से एक और आवाज़। > > > कोई नहीं सुनता प्रार्थना-- > > सुनती है अपने पालने में लेटी दुधमुंही बच्ची, > > जो आदिम अंधेरे से निकलकर उजाले में आने पर > > इतनी भौंचक है > > कि उसके लिए अभी आवाज़ > > होने, न होने के बीच का सुनसान है। > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From murali.chalam at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 22:36:41 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:36:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <722442.13451.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <722442.13451.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908131006g39b2f9e1o37160f246895e6e5@mail.gmail.com> By the same logic compare within our own country, have any one of the pseudo seculars talked about the pathetic condition of the Kashmiri pundits. If any one talsk about that, the person is termed a hindu fanatic. Regards, V Murali On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:26 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Agree with Rakesh that whether or not any USA body has the business is not > pertinent. > > We in India should be thankful that someone or the other is constantly > reminding us on these issues. > > We in India should be ashamed that we have placed ourselves in a position > that others need to remind us of our failings. > > Also agree with Rakesh that Pakistan is no benchmark. > > There cannot be any benchmark in justifying failure of the country towards > it's citizens. There cannot be any competition in such matters. That would > be ridiculous. > > Totally disagree with Rakesh's attitude of highlighting only the Indian > Muslim case. That is counter-productive and guaranteed to provoke equally > blinkered reactions and responses and lead to meaningless bickering. > > In India, experiences should have taught us that being a 'religious > minority' is an identity that can vary from state to state and is not the > exclusive preserve of any single religion. Also that, 'religion' might not > always dictate the 'minority status' but might be tagged to economic-class, > caste etc, each with it's own unique set of abuses suffered. > > In India, we might also like to consider that in some scenarios, 'minority > numbers' lay seige to cornering for themselves exclusively or largely the > Freedoms and Rights that should be available to all citizens. > > Kshmendra > > > > > --- On Thu, 8/13/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > > From: Rakesh Iyer > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed > to protect its religious minorities adequately > To: "Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi" > Cc: "sarai list" > Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 5:13 PM > > > Whether the US has any business to say it or not may be a different > question, but Indian Muslims have had a mixed record as far as their life > in > India is concerned. And Murali ji, Pakistan is not the benchmark in every > field for India to achieve. That seems to be the case as far as you are > concerned. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > From murali.chalam at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 22:38:36 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:38:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <722442.13451.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <722442.13451.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908131008o1038548ft57cdbd38ce7a1d13@mail.gmail.com> The minority numbers are trying to multiply manyfold using dubious methods, and the demography is changing rapidly. Regards, V Murali On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:26 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Agree with Rakesh that whether or not any USA body has the business is not > pertinent. > > We in India should be thankful that someone or the other is constantly > reminding us on these issues. > > We in India should be ashamed that we have placed ourselves in a position > that others need to remind us of our failings. > > Also agree with Rakesh that Pakistan is no benchmark. > > There cannot be any benchmark in justifying failure of the country towards > it's citizens. There cannot be any competition in such matters. That would > be ridiculous. > > Totally disagree with Rakesh's attitude of highlighting only the Indian > Muslim case. That is counter-productive and guaranteed to provoke equally > blinkered reactions and responses and lead to meaningless bickering. > > In India, experiences should have taught us that being a 'religious > minority' is an identity that can vary from state to state and is not the > exclusive preserve of any single religion. Also that, 'religion' might not > always dictate the 'minority status' but might be tagged to economic-class, > caste etc, each with it's own unique set of abuses suffered. > > In India, we might also like to consider that in some scenarios, 'minority > numbers' lay seige to cornering for themselves exclusively or largely the > Freedoms and Rights that should be available to all citizens. > > Kshmendra > > > > > --- On Thu, 8/13/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > > From: Rakesh Iyer > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed > to protect its religious minorities adequately > To: "Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi" > Cc: "sarai list" > Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 5:13 PM > > > Whether the US has any business to say it or not may be a different > question, but Indian Muslims have had a mixed record as far as their life > in > India is concerned. And Murali ji, Pakistan is not the benchmark in every > field for India to achieve. That seems to be the case as far as you are > concerned. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > From murali.chalam at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 22:43:12 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:43:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn In-Reply-To: <823583.97663.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <341380d00908130019m1090d9edkbc109fe97006049f@mail.gmail.com> <823583.97663.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908131013n5c15f1e2o693bca9c5d18636e@mail.gmail.com> Ignoring is the best form of response. Regards,V Murali On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:44 PM, A.K. Malik wrote: > Please Mr Anupam, > Stop making silly comments and mind your language.I have > not used any intemperate language. In a civil society you are supposed to be > decent in language especially in discussion fora.If you have not been able > to understand the analogy, it is not my fault.I will still advise you not to > be personal. However, as a precaution, I will see not to respond to you in > future. > Still with regards, > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > --- On Thu, 8/13/09, anupam chakravartty wrote: > > > From: anupam chakravartty > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn > > To: "sarai list" > > Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 12:49 PM > > Dear Mr Malik, > > with your skewed metaphor of rebuking a child, i am sure > > you are a > > neighbourhood bully or something like that. you should be > > jailed for beating > > up children in your neighbourhood. :) > > Actually what are trying to say? That people from majority > > are also > > discriminated. Offcourse they are but it can only happen > > when they (in > > whatever situation) the person from the majority community > > is singled out or > > marginalised or weak. It doesnt have to be an attack from > > minority (which is > > religious). But keeping that aspect in mind, the privileges > > for the > > minorities have been extended because they can participate > > in the > > functioning of the nation. dont think that you only have > > the right to go and > > rebuke other's children. and please do not beat up your > > child and turn him > > into a goon. ok? > > -anupam > > > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 12:15 PM, A.K. Malik > > wrote: > > > > > Dear Mr Anupam, > > > > > It seems you have mixed up the issue of > > > discrimination.What are you are writing for a phone > > booth doesn't come from > > > a Statute book, it is pure commercial sense and > > economics. You don't have a > > > right to have a telephone booth installed even if you > > don't like carrying a > > > Mobile Phone. But you do have a right if you are > > discriminated against under > > > Art 14 of the Constitution. In case of minorities as > > you have read there is > > > the Minorities Commission where ONLY minority religion > > person can be a > > > complainant.My only appeal was that such a Commission > > should be available to > > > all citizens including majority.What is wrong with > > this? Have you never seen > > > any majority person being discriminated against? OUR > > country is perhaps the > > > only one in this world where minorities have more > > rights and priviledges > > > LEGALLY than the majority and there are more > > proponents of these priviledges > > > to minorities.(Realty may perhaps be different). > > > I understand the real situation-if you rebuke your own > > child, it is no > > > issue at all,but if you do the same to your > > neighbour's child it is a big > > > issue and can even be taken to a Minorities Commission > > if the child happens > > > to be from minority. > > > Regards, > > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 8/12/09, anupam chakravartty > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: anupam chakravartty > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes > > a U turn > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 1:35 AM > > > > Dear Malik jee, > > > > The idea of having reverse discrimination can > > only be > > > > realised if there is > > > > discrimination. We do have a judiciary to take > > care of > > > > that. The idea of > > > > discrimination is an elusive one. There can be > > also > > > > discrimination against > > > > people who do not want to use a mobile phone and > > instead > > > > depends on Public > > > > Call Booths because the larger society opted for > > cellular > > > > phones. How have > > > > we accomodated people without mobile phones in > > the society? > > > > But not many us > > > > are ready to complain because we accomodate > > technological > > > > marvels of certain > > > > group of people involved in designing them for us > > so that > > > > it brings us > > > > benefits. But we do have the right to reject them > > on the > > > > grounds that I dont > > > > want to be mobile with a phone, of all things. So > > what am i > > > > left with? Say I > > > > am stuck in East of Kailash, and there is not a > > single > > > > phone booth around > > > > here to make a phone call. I have the option of > > walking > > > > only ( as i have > > > > only twenty bucks in my pocket) to AIIMS. I bet > > my last > > > > tenner for you, i am > > > > sure you can theorise on this. > > > > What you call small means a lot to me. Someone > > getting > > > > discriminated doesnt > > > > have to neccesarily conform to vote bank > > politics. I guess > > > > such arguments > > > > can also exist independently out of the > > mainstream > > > > political scenario. A > > > > person not getting a shelter because of a > > societal rule in > > > > an urban area > > > > where crores of people work, get their wages, > > steal, beg, > > > > borrow, live, shit > > > > is something horrible. > > > > -Anupam > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:58 AM, A.K. Malik > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr Sengupta, > > > > > > > > > What I wanted to emphasize was > > small issues do come > > > > up and > > > > > they need not necessarily be taken as being > > based on > > > > religion.The example I > > > > > gave was to let the people know if you a > > right, others > > > > too have a right. In > > > > > the experience of the Society, to the best > > of my > > > > knowledge Muslims were not > > > > > barred.I never made an issue because I > > understand the > > > > people who have formed > > > > > a Society have certain rights.Even if I > > wished to make > > > > an issue, I couldn't > > > > > have because I belong to the majority > > community and as > > > > such have no > > > > > Commission where I could have made a > > complaint. > > > > > Don't you think the reverse discrimination > > never > > > > happens, but I have yet to > > > > > see anyone highlighting it. > > > > > Would not it have been more appropriate if > > the Govt > > > > had created a > > > > > Discrimination Commission( or > > Anti-Discrimination > > > > Commission) where every > > > > > citizen who was discriminated against could > > go and > > > > file an application > > > > > instead of a Minorities Commission and > > such > > > > other Commissions? But ,Sir > > > > > that won't have given the ruling political > > party vote > > > > banks. > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 8/11/09, subhrodip sengupta > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > From: subhrodip sengupta > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran > > Hashmi takes > > > > a U turn > > > > > > To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 6:00 > > PM > > > > > > Hashmi dd not complaint against one > > > > > > person alone, being a popular actor, > > especially > > > > in the > > > > > > present youth he forwarded a point. > > There's > > > > nothing wrong in > > > > > > not lending your house to a mohammadan. > > There's > > > > nothing wron > > > > > > when a MOHAMMEDAN STANDS AND SHELTERS > > EXCLUSIVELY > > > > ANOTHER, > > > > > > BE HE A TERRORIST! I do not support > > terrorist but > > > > if your > > > > > > logic alone need work, sheltering > > terrorist is nt > > > > a crime. . > > > > > > ...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > From: subhrodip sengupta > > > > > > To: Murali V ; > > > > > > Rakesh Iyer > > > > > > Cc: Sarai List > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 3:15:02 > > PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran > > Hashmi takes > > > > a U turn > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > Thanks for your interesting comments > > which does > > > > not let one > > > > > > fall silent. > > > > > > Let me go by your arguments, a group of > > Brahmins, > > > > possibly > > > > > > marathis who are vegetarians. > > > > > > So, what makes up a hindu bramhin, > > things he /she > > > > does, a > > > > > > lower acste what they do....... > > > > > > One wont believe it nowadays, but more > > than five > > > > decades > > > > > > ago, Muslims were marked by their > > consumption of > > > > onion, and > > > > > > in reverse, only lower caste and > > Muslims swere > > > > supposed to > > > > > > consume raw onions! Then I assume these > > BRahmins, > > > > or god > > > > > > knows whoever they are; are > > discriminating > > > > against not only > > > > > > muslims > > > > alone........................................... > > > > > > Fine for those who believe Constitution > > is just > > > > another book > > > > > > of rules which need to be bent as we > > like, > > > > Article on > > > > > > equality is very clear on this, but for > > those who > > > > look for > > > > > > social consciousness and outcomes, it's > > not just > > > > > > distracting, but rather alarming. How > > will these > > > > people live > > > > > > when one of their daughter's shall > > reveal she has > > > > had had > > > > > > sex with a mohammedan and a christian, > > apart from > > > > 3 other > > > > > > hindu boys? Will then they resort to > > more basic > > > > methods of > > > > > > public retribution and disgracing? > > Alas. > > > > Interestingly > > > > > > nether the fal wallahs nor the sweepers > > are > > > > > > Brahmins........... As for Beef > > consumption, > > > > > > Consumption of nothing in my house can > > make yours > > > > impure, > > > > > > these society wallahs, should have more > > sense > > > > than > > > > > > conducting Raam Leelas, Hanuman pujas , > > where > > > > interestingly > > > > > > revel is there, something which they > > stay should > > > > be behind > > > > > > doors.,........... > > > > > > I have beef inside my house no strong > > smell > > > > disturrrbs you, > > > > > > it's finer than lift does not work, > > water supply > > > > does not > > > > > > come, to the latter they should > > restrict their > > > > problem. What > > > > > > about consumption of liquor. Then they > > should > > > > have things > > > > > > like surprise checks. Let me not go > > into > > > > frivolous things, > > > > > > if the argument is correct, they are > > actually > > > > committing a > > > > > > bigger crime, a prejudice and friction > > against a > > > > bigger > > > > > > section of society. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Hashmi: > > > > > > Any one who now a days stands up is > > first accused > > > > of trying > > > > > > to attain cheap publicity, even shiny > > ahuja's > > > > maid! Fine as > > > > > > a statement from dominant ones who'd > > else loose > > > > power, but > > > > > > we buying into such things. Things are > > pretty > > > > clear it is > > > > > > assumed.......(on what basis?) > > > > > > > > > > > > He has been a bold-based actor. Is it > > less > > > > amusing that > > > > > > his case such people as who date > > married, women, > > > > bring in > > > > > > joys, challenge social perceptions, or > > even do > > > > bold roles in > > > > > > movies are cheap. But lest be sure lets > > pass one > > > > resolution, > > > > > > they are not prostitutes, many of us > > would have > > > > to apply for > > > > > > license then, being students orf > > social > > > > > > experiments.......... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,(hopefully I got more audience > > for this > > > > despicable, > > > > > > cheap actor who behaves like what > > onstage) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > & LOVE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subhrodip > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > From: Murali V > > > > > > To: Rakesh Iyer > > > > > > Cc: Sarai List > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 1:33:10 > > PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran > > Hashmi takes > > > > a U turn > > > > > > > > > > > > If I were to explain further on > > Malik's > > > > statement, If > > > > > > somebody is rejected > > > > > > because of being a non-vegetarian, and > > if the > > > > person > > > > > > happens to belong to a > > > > > > minority community, I am sure, it would > > be > > > > twisted to be > > > > > > one because of > > > > > > being in the community and all hell > > would be let > > > > loose by > > > > > > the > > > > > > Pseudo-seculars and the media. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > V Murali > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Rakesh > > Iyer > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I only hope it's for the sake of > > disallowing > > > > the > > > > > > non-vegetarians and not > > > > > > > for disallowing the Muslims. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > > media and > > > > the > > > > > > city. > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! > > recommends > > > > that you upgrade to the new and > > > > > > safer Internet Explorer 8. > > > > > http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > > media and > > > > the > > > > > > city. > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See the > > Web's > > > > breaking stories, > > > > > > chosen by people like you. Check out > > Yahoo! > > > > Buzz. > > > > > http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > > media and > > > > the > > > > > > city. > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > > media and the > > > > city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > with > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > > the > > > > city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 01:03:59 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 01:03:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 31st All India Conference of Linguists @ University of Hyderabad Message-ID: 31st All India Conference of Linguists @ University of Hyderabad http://sites.google.com/site/aicl2009hyd/annoucement1 From taraprakash at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 01:21:27 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:51:27 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] universal civil code References: <14B86AA418CB4B99A8C760E0921465C5@tara> <838236.11530.qm@web39104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8C9C7935804A4AFD8009B6C9C98A2A4B@tara> Hi all and Rakesh. As far as literacy and economic development is concerned, Hariyana is doing much better than the BIMARU states. For some reason the Khat patriarchs have managed to retain control over the entire community. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rakesh Iyer To: A.K. Malik Cc: taraprakash ; Sarai List Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 1:39 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] universal civil code Dear Malik One of the reasons this has happened is because of poor literacy rates, particularly of women, in such regions as well. I am pretty sure that Haryana has a poor literacy rate of women. What is more, such cases also ensure that the sex ratio is skewed. This has a deteriorating effect because studies show that districts which have a lower sex ratio have a higher crime rate. Hence, in particular we need to do things about it. And the first way, one may go, is changing the public opinion, which is possible through the media and through newspapers. One of the bigger failures of our democracy has also been that our political leaders are more interested in votes rather than ideals and understanding the issues properly. We can't send the Indian Army after all to kill the male heads of these khap panchayats and teach them a lesson for 'not modernizing', so as to nullify the vote impact totally. Why not our media channels go to these places and have the Sardesais and the Barkha Dutts have the debates in these villages? Who knows, what changes couldn't be brought till now may have to be brought in because of this. Regards Rakesh From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Aug 14 06:59:01 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 02:29:01 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] UID will aid delivery of flagship schemes- 193 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908131829q6824bd50ka51600eefad18db6@mail.gmail.com> Dear All A philosopher once said, 'daydreaming is original contemplation'. As the council of ministers go into a huddle for an exercise in collective reverie, we on the margins of the discourse, get a sense of its scale, its monumental proportions and we choose not be awed by it. For the sake of participation in a collective memory do we sometimes not grant our elders the right to choose our collective nightmares? We are repeatedly persuaded to go and sleep. Yet we choose to not to go to sleep. Or at least we pray that may some of us suffer from an insomnia while others lie with a dream-induced sleep. 600 million is the figure which we are promised that would be made visible to the digital eyes of the state. 600 million is the figure which we are led to believe will not suffer from the injustices of the state. 600 million is the figure which will get their random numbers. The angel of back office automation has now become an archangel of random numbers will be the one to shower us all with names bearing a code ABCD oblique 1234. The test really lies in how this daydream play itself out when we wake up. Please read the story below for more. Warm regards Taha http://www.hindu.com/2009/08/13/stories/2009081361501100.htm The Hindu Thursday, Aug 13, 2009 ‘UID will aid delivery of flagship schemes’ Vinay Kumar NEW DELHI: Reiterating his government’s high priority to the Unique Identification project, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Wednesday said lack of identity proof resulted in harassment and denial of services to the poor, and led to leakages in various government programmes. Chairing the first meeting of the 11-member council formed to advise the newly created Unique Identification Authority of India (UIDAI), Dr. Singh said the project would specifically improve delivery of the flagship schemes of the Centre. The Authority is being headed by the co-founder of Infosys, Nandan Nilekani. Dr. Singh said providing identities to the poor and the marginalised would enhance access to government services, both in the State and at the Centre, and would enable delivery of benefits to the poor and the under-served. “Active participation” He emphasised the need for the “active participation” of all government departments for the success of the project. The council endorsed “in principle” the draft strategy of implementation and resolved to provide a legal framework to the UIDAI in course of time. It decided to make it the apex authority to set standards in demographic and biometric data in order to ensure inter-operability. Eliminate duplication A single, universal identity number will help eliminate fraud and duplicate identities, resulting in significant savings to the State exchequer. The government undertook an effort to provide a clear identity to residents first in 1993, with the issue of photo identity cards by the Election Commission. Government sources said the UID number would only guarantee identity, not rights, benefits or entitlements. It was proof of identity and did not confer citizenship. The Registrars that the Authority plans to partner with in its first phase — the National Rural Employment Guarantee Act, the Rashtriya Swasthya Bima Yojana and the Public Distribution System — will help bring large numbers into the system. The Authority will ensure that the Know Your Resident standards do not become a barrier for enrolling the poor, and will devise suitable procedures to ensure their inclusion without compromising the integrity of the data. The UIDAI approach leverages existing infrastructure and private agencies across India. It will be the regulatory authority, managing a Central ID Data Repository, which will issue UID numbers, update resident information and authenticate the identity of residents as required. Number, not a card The UIDAI will issue a number, not a card. The number will not contain intelligence, as loading intelligence into identity numbers makes it susceptible to fraud and theft. The UID will be a random number, the sources indicated, and the single source of identity verification. The Authority will collect only basic information on the resident. Once residents enrol, they can use the number as identification proof to open a bank account, to obtain a passport, driving license, and so on. Eliminating duplication under various schemes is expected to save the exchequer upwards of Rs. 20,000 crores a year. The Authority is likely to start issuing the numbers in 12-18 months. It plans to cover 600 million people within four years from the start of the project. The meeting was attended by Union Ministers Pranab Mukherjee, Veerappa Moily, C.P. Joshi, Kapil Sibal and Deputy Chairman of the Planning Commission Montek Singh Ahluwalia, among others. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Aug 14 07:29:01 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 02:59:01 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] First lot of Unique ID in 12-18 months- 195 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908131859n7df63b8fi3791410775265c0@mail.gmail.com> Dear All 20,000 crore will be saved by UIDAI issued UID numbers. Or so goes the rhetoric! 1,00,000 new jobs will be established. Or so goes the claim. This number will not be a citizenship document. Or so goes the promise. - My good wishes for Nandan Nilekani and his team. I sincerely wish him success. He seems like a nice, honest person. He seems to have good ideas for India. Technology could save India from its poor. Technology could actually bring a difference in people's lives. - This view is so breathtakingly believable that one tends to suspend disbelief whenever it is floated. One actually wants to believe in all the technological myths which have engulfed us as a nation since Independence. Let us try and remember theese big myths in the last 60 yrs starting with -The Big Dam, The Green Revolution, The IT revolution, The national highways linkup project, The Nuclear Bomb, The IT revolution, The back office brigades, The railways, The metros, The BRT's, The Monorails, The PAN cards, The Ration Cards, The LPG cards, The Voter ID cards, The Driving Licenses and so on. What sort of redistribution of public money has these myths resulted in? Could these myths help in any way for the good of all? Did these myths not result in increased arrogance of the State? Did these myths not allowed some of us to think, dream, plan and execute for all of us? The writer of the story below wants us to understand that how a UID number will -benefit- all of us by actually reducing the corruption. The question is not whether this myth is viable or not, but the question really is whether, should we celebrate every myth of epic proportions with equal reverence? Please do read the story below for more. Warm regards Taha http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/india/First-lot-of-Unique-ID-in-12-18-months/articleshow/4886915.cms First lot of Unique ID in 12-18 months TNN 13 August 2009, 02:37am IST NEW DELHI: A single random number will establish your identity. It will carry no "intelligence" but do away with use of ration cards, passports and driving licences as ID proofs. It could save Rs 20,000 crore by eliminating fake and duplicate identities under various government schemes. In a presentation to the PM's council on the unique identity project, its chairman Nandan Nilekani said the authority would aim to provide 600 million people, or about half the population, ID numbers in four years. The first UIDs will be issued in 12-18 months. Though covered by a legal framework, it would not be mandatory to have a unique ID number. The Council "in principle" approved the draft strategy and though UIDs will not be mandatory, the IDs would ultimately be made compulsory by implementing agencies of various schemes. People would require ID numbers as benefits may be mandatorily linked to numbers. With the authority offering a strong online authentication where agencies can compare demographic and biometric information, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh told the council that the government attaches high priority to the project. Lack of ID proof results in harassment and denial of services. It would specifically improve delivery of flagship schemes. It also argued that once numbers are rolled out, the internal security scenario in the country will improve as tracking of crime and criminals will become easier. Similarly, it will help banks to increase their revenues The Council decided that ministries, departments and other associated agencies having a public interface will provide databases to the UID authority to facilitate rolling out of the numbers. Authentication of this data will be done through biometrics. Counting on the sheer utility of such a number, the authority feels that the demand-driven scheme will find ready takers. It will network with major registrars like the NREGA, PDS and Rashtriya Swasthya Bima Yojana, to provide accurate information of beneficiaries and nip fraudulent claims. Nilekani informed the Council that new PAN cards can be linked to UID numbers. Every year approximately one million PAN cards are issued. The ID will not be a card, but just a number issued to a "resident of India", a defination that means that it is not proof of citizenship. This allows the authority to skirt around the politically sensitive issue of identifying non-citizens like Bangladeshis, but on the other hand its processes might make it difficult for a non-Indian to get hold of a unique ID number. The data base maintained by the authority will contain, for the first time, biometric information by way of a fingerprint. The central data base will have your name, the names of your parents, their UID numbers, an expiry date and a photograpgh. The authority will answer queries about identity in a yes or no format while agencies utilising the facility can store data only if authorised to do so. Since the UID data will be carefully validated by a technology-driven system, it is not expected to suffer from deficiencies caused by people providing differing personal information while applying for say a ration card and a driving licence or even re-applying for the same document multiple times. The scheme, it is hoped, could stem losses like the Rs 1,200 crore estimated to be siphoned off by way of duplicate or ghost identities. The authority will regularly update information and its data will provide the government a clearer picture of India's population. It is envisaged that central, state and private agencies will partner the UIDA and will process UID applications, connect to the central facility to "re-duplicate" resident resident information and issue numbers. The UID chief informed the Council that he had held parleys with home minister P Chidambaram, Chief Election Commissioner Navin Chawla and RBI Governor D Subbarao to source data from their organisations. Interestingly, residents below 16 years of age will also have biometric details of their parents. The system will be developed in a way, which automatically converts their UID numbers independent of their parents once they become majors. * Unique ID number will not be proof of citizenship, but will verify identity. It will help clean up delivery of social sector services and subsidies. * It will help verify IDs for accessing loans, verifying documents. The numbers will help do away with duplication and fake person information. * It will not be a card but a random number which will link to data base which will store biometric information like fingerprints. It will have a photo too. * UID authority may not use Election Commission data as it is not fully verifiable. But it will partner central and state agencies to collect and process data. *Tech systems will have a major role across the UID structure. Data will be stored in a central server and authentication of residents will be online. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 07:35:21 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:35:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: <341380d00908130624o69e47b3eg6af2fd6924819580@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560908100251m61055704t1d54be26379d0bd8@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908100331n1c28c00ehd849fbf88e866741@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908120441h71e24400p80e27b3c08e86af0@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908120515q56734bb8vd1d10ac58eb62f4e@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908130401o10a6776ah6545c763a9b5fad0@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908130624o69e47b3eg6af2fd6924819580@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I think this reminds me that all of us must clearly specify our biases. I think that would be better off because it is a critical issue. At least let us be honest to ourself and towards others in this forum, rather than shooting from the back and speaking on behalf of others while not accepting it publicly. To begin with, my first bias is clearly against RSS, and I have no issues in accepting that. Why I do so, is something I have already specified many times. My bias against them, is mostly on their ideology towards other religions, and the acts they and their sister organizations have indulged in. I don't think all the human rights organizations along with some of the 'sickular' (if that's what Pawan jee refers to for someone secular) organizations can all be telling lies. Someone has got to be speaking the truth, at least the victims if nothing else. My bias is not towards parties but towards policies, and it's a pro-bias. What is important is policies which help the people at large, rather than lead to mutual acrimony and bickering. It seems that is the case on this forum, where now Rajen ji, Murali ji, and a few others have no other business but going in style on Hindutva and Hindu-Muslim issues. For them, the only thing I wish to remind is that India is not just Gujarat or Modi-pradesh. It is too diverse to even have one single ideology as its cornerstone and foundation. And the struggle for justice and for freedoms (which in itself includes some kind of responsibility) will continue. Because for me, justice and freedoms are more important than Hinduism, Islam or even Hindutva. And it's something which Krishna himself fought for, the right to justice, which I remember today on the occasion of Janmashtami. Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 07:43:32 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:43:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] universal civil code In-Reply-To: <8C9C7935804A4AFD8009B6C9C98A2A4B@tara> References: <14B86AA418CB4B99A8C760E0921465C5@tara> <838236.11530.qm@web39104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8C9C7935804A4AFD8009B6C9C98A2A4B@tara> Message-ID: I was comparing Haryana with the southern states, not with BIMARU states (These can't be a benchmark for development in any case). As far as following one's own rules is concerned, I believe laws can't necessarily be the solution. The laws were there but the Naxals were created. The laws are there but this problem still continues. So laws are not the solution. What is the solution is state intervention through education, health and security. The state should follow encouragement policies towards those who live a life based on freedoms and equality by protecting their lives and ensuring that they are not attacked. But the first step required is education, and this is possible through teachers. And this should be started right away. The other thing is use of media. I heard somewhere that RAW uses Indian media. I am not sure of this, but seriously speaking, if the govt wants to use the media, use it here. Let's get the khap panchayats on TV and let them debate out on these issues. Why not? Let's get it to hear what it's like to screw the freedoms of individuals of their own community. That's the only way we can start. It's important, and it's equally important that this proceeds slowly. Let the community get a chance to speak out. And let also others get a chance to speak out what could be wrong in their practices. It's very important, otherwise they will be as they are and so will we. And if I am not leaving RSS activists' replies on this forum, how can I advocate leaving these people alone, at least on their views? I don't mean to say that parents should not be angry if their children are of same gotra and yet marry (or otherwise, but without their consent). But parents should equally not force their children to marry only to specific people, and if the above happens, if the parents feel too much, let them debate out on such issues as well. For this issue itself, we need a debate. And what's more, such love marriages are an issue of the family, not of the panchayats. To instill this itself, will take time. But why not? Let's start for a change. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 07:46:17 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:46:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908131013n5c15f1e2o693bca9c5d18636e@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00908130019m1090d9edkbc109fe97006049f@mail.gmail.com> <823583.97663.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908131013n5c15f1e2o693bca9c5d18636e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: When Anupam jee was calling for boycotts, our great Hindutva biased enthusiasts were shooting bang bang against him. Now when one of them calls for the same approach, the rest are found nowhere. Murali ji, at least have the patience to think about the ideology you believe in and whether it's right or wrong. (Whether it will make a difference or not, is anybody's guess). From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 07:47:04 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:47:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908131008o1038548ft57cdbd38ce7a1d13@mail.gmail.com> References: <722442.13451.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908131008o1038548ft57cdbd38ce7a1d13@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Can you provide the statistics proving the same? Or you have the habit of shooting off your mouth without knowing what you are saying? From vivek at sarai.net Fri Aug 14 08:48:11 2009 From: vivek at sarai.net (Vivek Narayanan) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 08:48:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Onward Christian Soldiers Message-ID: <4A84D773.7050805@sarai.net> Utterly terrifying, but at least now we know for sure that Bush was no pseudo-secularist: http://men.style.com/gq/features/topsecret From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 09:10:03 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:10:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] National Scholarship for Female Students Belonging to Minority Communities Message-ID: To know more about the scholarships being offered to female students from minority communities, check http://bit.ly/3wxrvj. From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 09:18:03 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:18:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Grants for Educational Infrastructure and Facilities Message-ID: **Financial assistance is being offered to improve educational infrastructure and facilities in India. More here: http://bit.ly/4KRFk From murali.chalam at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 09:30:09 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:30:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908100251m61055704t1d54be26379d0bd8@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908100331n1c28c00ehd849fbf88e866741@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908120441h71e24400p80e27b3c08e86af0@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908120515q56734bb8vd1d10ac58eb62f4e@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908130401o10a6776ah6545c763a9b5fad0@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908130624o69e47b3eg6af2fd6924819580@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908132100k5af597c3t81eeaf41445ba3ed@mail.gmail.com> A SIMI has an ideiology, Seventh Adventists have an ideology and the list goes on. Just as many others have no other business but claiming to be secular and constant bashing on any one talking pro-hinduism and calling hindu fanaticism. Krishna fought for justice and he has also stated that to get justice no method is wrong or dubious. Talking of ideologies 1. At this point I would like to quote his very words of St Xavier. “When I have finished baptising the people, I order them to destory the huts in which they keep their idols; and I have them break the statues of their idols into tiny pieces, since they are now Christians. I could never come to an end describing to you the great consolation which fills my soul when I see idols being destroyed by the hands of those who had been idolaters,” (from The Letters and Instructions of Francis Xavier, 1993, pp 117-8). 2. Seven states, led by Italy, urged the union to recognise a "historical truth" and refer explicitly to the "Christian roots of Europe" in its new constitution. The largely Catholic states of Italy Poland, Lithuania, Malta, Portugal, the Czech Republic and Slovakia have made clear they want more. The Vatican has made clear that it wants a reference to Christianity in the document. "If you are the prime minister of a Catholic country it would be very useful to have the Pope on your side, especially when you hold a referendum on the constitution," said one diplomat. It is an Irony, that VATICAN wants christianity included in the Constitution of the EU, while scoffing at certain sections stance of a HINDU nation. 3. Maulana Abul Kalam Azad was against partition, but the intentions were sinister. Do you know what Maulana Abul Kalam Azad had to say on the partition which he had stated in his book. Maulana Abdul Kalam Azad, a so-called 'liberal' and 'secular' Muslim, led a campaign against 'Vande Maataram' on the grounds that it was 'anti-Islamic'. He had opposed the partition of India and Jawaharlal Nehru was quick to declare him 'a great nationalist leader', but the Maulana in his book "India Wins Freedom" has discussed the reason for his opposition. He was of the opinion that the creation of a separate Muslim state would divide the Muslim population and India would have fewer number of Muslims, thus dealing a blow to the process of Islamization of India, hence the opposition. 4. In 1924, Tagore's genuine fears about the divided loyalty of Muslims appeared in Times of India (18-4-1924): 'A very important factor which is making it almost impossible for Hindu-Muslim unity to become an accomplished fact is that the Muslims cannot confine their patriotism to any one country. I had frankly asked many Muslims whether, in the event of any Mohammedan power invading India, they would stand side by side with their Hindu neighbours to defend their common motherland, I was not satisfied with the reply I got from them. I can definitely state that such men as Mr.Mohammed Ali have declared that under no circumstances is it permissible for any Mohammden whatever be his country to stand against any Mohammadan'. 5. Maulana Mohammed Ali who paid this 'noble' (!!) tribute to Mahatma Gandhi in 1924 in Aligarh and Ajmer: 'However pure Mr. Gandhiji's character may be, he must appear to me from the point of view of religion inferior to any Mussalman, even though he be without character'. An year later when he was questioned at a public meeting in Lucknow, the immortal and irreplaceable Maulana Mohammed Ali cheerfully accepted and even 'improved' (!!) upon his previous command performance by saying: Yes, according to my religion and creed, I do hold an adulterous and a fallen Mussalman to be better than Mahatma Gandhi. That is religion over national pride for you. 6. Maulana Mohammed Ali was given the supreme honour by the ever-nervous towards the Muslims, Congress Party to preside over the Kakinada Session of the Congress in 1923. Mr.Mohammed Ali declared that under no circumstances is it permissible for any Mohammden whatever be his country to stand against any Mohammadan". 7. The Vatican Ideology The previous pope during the World Parliament of Religions passed a resolution a few years ago proclaiming that all religions were various pathways to One Ultimate Reality and called for unity and brotherhood of all religions, the Vatican came out with a prompt rejection of the view and emphatically proclaimed that Roman Catholicism was the only true religion and others could not be accepted to be true. Good luck. Regards, V Murali On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:35 AM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > I think this reminds me that all of us must clearly specify our biases. I > think that would be better off because it is a critical issue. At least let > us be honest to ourself and towards others in this forum, rather than > shooting from the back and speaking on behalf of others while not accepting > it publicly. > > To begin with, my first bias is clearly against RSS, and I have no issues in > accepting that. Why I do so, is something I have already specified many > times. My bias against them, is mostly on their ideology towards other > religions, and the acts they and their sister organizations have indulged > in. I don't think all the human rights organizations along with some of the > 'sickular' (if that's what Pawan jee refers to for someone secular) > organizations can all be telling lies. Someone has got to be speaking the > truth, at least the victims if nothing else. > > My bias is not towards parties but towards policies, and it's a pro-bias. > What is important is policies which help the people at large, rather than > lead to mutual acrimony and bickering. It seems that is the case on this > forum, where now Rajen ji, Murali ji, and a few others have no other > business but going in style on Hindutva and Hindu-Muslim issues. > > For them, the only thing I wish to remind is that India is not just Gujarat > or Modi-pradesh. It is too diverse to even have one single ideology as its > cornerstone and foundation. And the struggle for justice and for freedoms > (which in itself includes some kind of responsibility) will continue. > Because for me, justice and freedoms are more important than Hinduism, Islam > or even Hindutva. > > And it's something which Krishna himself fought for, the right to justice, > which I remember today on the occasion of Janmashtami. > > Regards > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From murali.chalam at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 09:36:45 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:36:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: References: <722442.13451.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908131008o1038548ft57cdbd38ce7a1d13@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908132106p3333413bk34893d2a1c54719a@mail.gmail.com> # Ref: http://www.asthabharati.org/Dia_Oct03/joshi.htm The demography of India is fast changing. Here is a statistical analysis Year Indian R. Muslims Christians 1951 (73.088) (24.880) (2.033) 1991 (68.026) (29.944) (2.029) 1 )Where Indian Religionists are under Pressure In the heartland and eastern regions of Indian Union, comprising Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, West Bengal and Assam Indian Religionists are under great pressure. Muslims form a significant presence in the whole of this region; and, there are several districts, where they form a preponderant majority. Their presence is especially high in a northern border belt that starts from Bahraich district of eastern Uttar Pradesh and moves through Gonda, Basti, Gorakhpur and Deoria districts of the state; to Champaran, Muzaffarpur, Darbhanga, Saharsa, Purnia and Santhal Pargana districts of Bihar; West Dinajpur, Maldah, Birbhum and Murshidabad districts of West Bengal; and Goalpara, Kamrup, Darrang and Nagaon districts of Assam.Muslims form about 28 percent of the population of this border belt; their growth here has been high enough to add almost 7 percentage points to their share of the population in the four decades since Partition. 2) Where Indian Religionists are turning a Minority Indian Religionists form only about a third of the population of Jammu and Kashmir; their presence in the valley districts of the state is insignificant. In Goa, Indian Religionists constitute about two-thirds of the population; of the rest about 30 percent are Christians and 5 percent Muslims. This is one of the rare states, where Indian Religionists have considerably improved their share. In Kerala, Indian Religionists have been losing ground throughout the twentieth century. They have a share of 57 percent in the population in 1991, about 12 percentage points less than their share in 1901. They have lost about 6 percentage points to Christians and about the same to Muslims; the gains of Christians occurred largely during 1901-1961 and those of Muslims during 1961-1991. In the Union Territory of Andaman & Nicobar Islands, the share of Indian Religionists has dropped from about 81 percent in 1901 to about 68 percent in 1991. 3) North Eastern States The most dramatic story of the twentieth century, however, is that of the north-eastern states, not including Assam which we have already discussed above. These states - that form a mountainous wall around the Brahmaputra valley and thus offer a protective cover along the eastern borders of India with Tibet, China, Myanmar and Bangladesh - are experiencing an intense movement of conversion towards Christianity. In several of these states, entire populations have been converted in quick spurts. One such major spurt took place during the Independence decade of 1941-1951, and involved all states of the region, except Arunachal Pradesh and Tripura. In Nagaland, this spurt took the share of Christians in the population of the state to nearly 54 percent from almost zero in 1941 In Mizoram, conversion to Christianity began somewhat earlier, around 1921, but like in Nagaland, there was a major rise in Christian presence during the Independence decade of 1941-1951; more than 90 percent of the population was converted to Christianity at the end of the decade. Their proportion was recorded to be nearly zero in 1941 Meghalaya's share of Christians in the population has risen to about 65 percent; their share is much higher in East Garo Hills and West Khasi Hills forming the central part of the state. Ref: http://www.asthabharati.org/Dia_Oct03/joshi.htm PLease check the following url. Regards, V Murali On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:47 AM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Can you provide the statistics proving the same? Or you have the habit of > shooting off your mouth without knowing what you are saying? > From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 09:41:57 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:41:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] New Media Campaign on HIV/AIDS Awareness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: *Standard Chartered Bank has launched a major global social media campaign to raise awareness of the threat of HIV and AIDS, moving toward its goal to educate one million people on HIV and AIDS by 2010 as part of the Clinton Global Initiative.* The campaign focuses on ‘Anti-HIVirus software’ that address protection methods against HIV/AIDS and dispels myths that drive stigma. The vehicle for the campaign comes through the animated story Mr HIV, who aims to destroy the human race within a span of six video webisodes. “’Vir.us’ is aimed at providing information to the 15- to 24-year-old population, who account for 45 per cent of new HIV infections,” group head of internet and mobile banking at Standard Chartered Aman Narain said in a release. “Animated movies have been hugely popular recently and we took a similar approach to engaging people in HIV and AIDS education." http://www.vir.us/ From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 14 10:00:12 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:30:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] universal civil code In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <806417.57357.qm@web39101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Rakesh Ji, With a couple of recent incidents,immediate thing which comes to my mind is hoodwinking of law by Hindu men and oppression of women in both Hindu and Muslim religions.Any Hindu who doesn't want to go in for the divorce proceedings with his current wife converts to Islam to marry another women.Without really following the tenets of Islam,his only aim is to get another woman which after conversion he gets by nikah.While in Islam a gender inequality is there wherein a man can marry and have four wives and then can divorce any or all of them without giving the women any recourse by saying Talaq thrice.While the tenets in Islam say that he can do so only if he treats them all equally which in realty never happens.I am not a Scholar in Islamic Studies and this is what I have understood from normal readings and news.Then there are inequalities in succession laws in different faiths. Regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Thu, 8/13/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > From: Rakesh Iyer > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] universal civil code > To: "A.K. Malik" > Cc: "Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi" , "Sarai List" > Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 8:03 PM > Well, now that we have had tons of > discussion on the so-called different religious codes, can > someone now specify why : > > 1) A uniform civil code is necessary, if at all > > 2) If it is necessary, the kind of things which should be a > part of the code. > > > Don't just beat around the bush, but be specific and > clear. It's a request I make here. > > From murali.chalam at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 10:26:45 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:26:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: References: <722442.13451.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908131008o1038548ft57cdbd38ce7a1d13@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908132156s2cbc9b7fgfdba54d854b125b7@mail.gmail.com> PLease check this out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU Regards, V Murali On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:47 AM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Can you provide the statistics proving the same? Or you have the habit of > shooting off your mouth without knowing what you are saying? > From aliens at dataone.in Fri Aug 14 11:25:57 2009 From: aliens at dataone.in (bipin) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:25:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn References: <823583.97663.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003101ca1ca3$e5565dd0$0201a8c0@limo> Dear Malik, Anupam is like that only never accepts gracefully others view and will impose the views that he is only correct. He is very rough and I have also bad experience in the past and stopped communicate with him due to his rudeness. In India, those who speaks for minor community consider themselves as secular, but actually they are pseudo-secular only. Those who speak for Indians which includes minority also are consider to be communal. thanks Bipin ----- Original Message ----- From: "A.K. Malik" To: "anupam chakravartty" Cc: "Sarai List" Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn > Please Mr Anupam, > Stop making silly comments and mind your language.I > have not used any intemperate language. In a civil society you are > supposed to be decent in language especially in discussion fora.If you > have not been able to understand the analogy, it is not my fault.I will > still advise you not to be personal. However, as a precaution, I will see > not to respond to you in future. > Still with regards, > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > --- On Thu, 8/13/09, anupam chakravartty wrote: > >> From: anupam chakravartty >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn >> To: "sarai list" >> Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 12:49 PM >> Dear Mr Malik, >> with your skewed metaphor of rebuking a child, i am sure >> you are a >> neighbourhood bully or something like that. you should be >> jailed for beating >> up children in your neighbourhood. :) >> Actually what are trying to say? That people from majority >> are also >> discriminated. Offcourse they are but it can only happen >> when they (in >> whatever situation) the person from the majority community >> is singled out or >> marginalised or weak. It doesnt have to be an attack from >> minority (which is >> religious). But keeping that aspect in mind, the privileges >> for the >> minorities have been extended because they can participate >> in the >> functioning of the nation. dont think that you only have >> the right to go and >> rebuke other's children. and please do not beat up your >> child and turn him >> into a goon. ok? >> -anupam >> >> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 12:15 PM, A.K. Malik >> wrote: >> >> > Dear Mr Anupam, >> > >> It seems you have mixed up the issue of >> > discrimination.What are you are writing for a phone >> booth doesn't come from >> > a Statute book, it is pure commercial sense and >> economics. You don't have a >> > right to have a telephone booth installed even if you >> don't like carrying a >> > Mobile Phone. But you do have a right if you are >> discriminated against under >> > Art 14 of the Constitution. In case of minorities as >> you have read there is >> > the Minorities Commission where ONLY minority religion >> person can be a >> > complainant.My only appeal was that such a Commission >> should be available to >> > all citizens including majority.What is wrong with >> this? Have you never seen >> > any majority person being discriminated against? OUR >> country is perhaps the >> > only one in this world where minorities have more >> rights and priviledges >> > LEGALLY than the majority and there are more >> proponents of these priviledges >> > to minorities.(Realty may perhaps be different). >> > I understand the real situation-if you rebuke your own >> child, it is no >> > issue at all,but if you do the same to your >> neighbour's child it is a big >> > issue and can even be taken to a Minorities Commission >> if the child happens >> > to be from minority. >> > Regards, >> > (A.K.MALIK) >> > >> > >> > --- On Wed, 8/12/09, anupam chakravartty >> wrote: >> > >> > > From: anupam chakravartty >> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes >> a U turn >> > > To: "sarai list" >> > > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 1:35 AM >> > > Dear Malik jee, >> > > The idea of having reverse discrimination can >> only be >> > > realised if there is >> > > discrimination. We do have a judiciary to take >> care of >> > > that. The idea of >> > > discrimination is an elusive one. There can be >> also >> > > discrimination against >> > > people who do not want to use a mobile phone and >> instead >> > > depends on Public >> > > Call Booths because the larger society opted for >> cellular >> > > phones. How have >> > > we accomodated people without mobile phones in >> the society? >> > > But not many us >> > > are ready to complain because we accomodate >> technological >> > > marvels of certain >> > > group of people involved in designing them for us >> so that >> > > it brings us >> > > benefits. But we do have the right to reject them >> on the >> > > grounds that I dont >> > > want to be mobile with a phone, of all things. So >> what am i >> > > left with? Say I >> > > am stuck in East of Kailash, and there is not a >> single >> > > phone booth around >> > > here to make a phone call. I have the option of >> walking >> > > only ( as i have >> > > only twenty bucks in my pocket) to AIIMS. I bet >> my last >> > > tenner for you, i am >> > > sure you can theorise on this. >> > > What you call small means a lot to me. Someone >> getting >> > > discriminated doesnt >> > > have to neccesarily conform to vote bank >> politics. I guess >> > > such arguments >> > > can also exist independently out of the >> mainstream >> > > political scenario. A >> > > person not getting a shelter because of a >> societal rule in >> > > an urban area >> > > where crores of people work, get their wages, >> steal, beg, >> > > borrow, live, shit >> > > is something horrible. >> > > -Anupam >> > > >> > > On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:58 AM, A.K. Malik >> >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > > > >> > > > Dear Mr Sengupta, >> > > > >> > > What I wanted to emphasize was >> small issues do come >> > > up and >> > > > they need not necessarily be taken as being >> based on >> > > religion.The example I >> > > > gave was to let the people know if you a >> right, others >> > > too have a right. In >> > > > the experience of the Society, to the best >> of my >> > > knowledge Muslims were not >> > > > barred.I never made an issue because I >> understand the >> > > people who have formed >> > > > a Society have certain rights.Even if I >> wished to make >> > > an issue, I couldn't >> > > > have because I belong to the majority >> community and as >> > > such have no >> > > > Commission where I could have made a >> complaint. >> > > > Don't you think the reverse discrimination >> never >> > > happens, but I have yet to >> > > > see anyone highlighting it. >> > > > Would not it have been more appropriate if >> the Govt >> > > had created a >> > > > Discrimination Commission( or >> Anti-Discrimination >> > > Commission) where every >> > > > citizen who was discriminated against could >> go and >> > > file an application >> > > > instead of a Minorities Commission and >> such >> > > other Commissions? But ,Sir >> > > > that won't have given the ruling political >> party vote >> > > banks. >> > > > Regards, >> > > > >> > > > (A.K.MALIK) >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > --- On Tue, 8/11/09, subhrodip sengupta >> >> > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > From: subhrodip sengupta >> > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran >> Hashmi takes >> > > a U turn >> > > > > To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." >> > > > > Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 6:00 >> PM >> > > > > Hashmi dd not complaint against one >> > > > > person alone, being a popular actor, >> especially >> > > in the >> > > > > present youth he forwarded a point. >> There's >> > > nothing wrong in >> > > > > not lending your house to a mohammadan. >> There's >> > > nothing wron >> > > > > when a MOHAMMEDAN STANDS AND SHELTERS >> EXCLUSIVELY >> > > ANOTHER, >> > > > > BE HE A TERRORIST! I do not support >> terrorist but >> > > if your >> > > > > logic alone need work, sheltering >> terrorist is nt >> > > a crime. . >> > > > > ...... >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > ________________________________ >> > > > > From: subhrodip sengupta >> > > > > To: Murali V ; >> > > > > Rakesh Iyer >> > > > > Cc: Sarai List >> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 3:15:02 >> PM >> > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran >> Hashmi takes >> > > a U turn >> > > > > >> > > > > Dear all, >> > > > > Thanks for your interesting comments >> which does >> > > not let one >> > > > > fall silent. >> > > > > Let me go by your arguments, a group of >> Brahmins, >> > > possibly >> > > > > marathis who are vegetarians. >> > > > > So, what makes up a hindu bramhin, >> things he /she >> > > does, a >> > > > > lower acste what they do....... >> > > > > One wont believe it nowadays, but more >> than five >> > > decades >> > > > > ago, Muslims were marked by their >> consumption of >> > > onion, and >> > > > > in reverse, only lower caste and >> Muslims swere >> > > supposed to >> > > > > consume raw onions! Then I assume these >> BRahmins, >> > > or god >> > > > > knows whoever they are; are >> discriminating >> > > against not only >> > > > > muslims >> > > alone........................................... >> > > > > Fine for those who believe Constitution >> is just >> > > another book >> > > > > of rules which need to be bent as we >> like, >> > > Article on >> > > > > equality is very clear on this, but for >> those who >> > > look for >> > > > > social consciousness and outcomes, it's >> not just >> > > > > distracting, but rather alarming. How >> will these >> > > people live >> > > > > when one of their daughter's shall >> reveal she has >> > > had had >> > > > > sex with a mohammedan and a christian, >> apart from >> > > 3 other >> > > > > hindu boys? Will then they resort to >> more basic >> > > methods of >> > > > > public retribution and disgracing? >> Alas. >> > > Interestingly >> > > > > nether the fal wallahs nor the sweepers >> are >> > > > > Brahmins........... As for Beef >> consumption, >> > > > > Consumption of nothing in my house can >> make yours >> > > impure, >> > > > > these society wallahs, should have more >> sense >> > > than >> > > > > conducting Raam Leelas, Hanuman pujas , >> where >> > > interestingly >> > > > > revel is there, something which they >> stay should >> > > be behind >> > > > > doors.,........... >> > > > > I have beef inside my house no strong >> smell >> > > disturrrbs you, >> > > > > it's finer than lift does not work, >> water supply >> > > does not >> > > > > come, to the latter they should >> restrict their >> > > problem. What >> > > > > about consumption of liquor. Then they >> should >> > > have things >> > > > > like surprise checks. Let me not go >> into >> > > frivolous things, >> > > > > if the argument is correct, they are >> actually >> > > committing a >> > > > > bigger crime, a prejudice and friction >> against a >> > > bigger >> > > > > section of society. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > About Hashmi: >> > > > > Any one who now a days stands up is >> first accused >> > > of trying >> > > > > to attain cheap publicity, even shiny >> ahuja's >> > > maid! Fine as >> > > > > a statement from dominant ones who'd >> else loose >> > > power, but >> > > > > we buying into such things. Things are >> pretty >> > > clear it is >> > > > > assumed.......(on what basis?) >> > > > > >> > > > > He has been a bold-based actor. Is it >> less >> > > amusing that >> > > > > his case such people as who date >> married, women, >> > > bring in >> > > > > joys, challenge social perceptions, or >> even do >> > > bold roles in >> > > > > movies are cheap. But lest be sure lets >> pass one >> > > resolution, >> > > > > they are not prostitutes, many of us >> would have >> > > to apply for >> > > > > license then, being students orf >> social >> > > > > experiments.......... >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Regards,(hopefully I got more audience >> for this >> > > despicable, >> > > > > cheap actor who behaves like what >> onstage) >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > & LOVE >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Subhrodip >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > ________________________________ >> > > > > From: Murali V >> > > > > To: Rakesh Iyer >> > > > > Cc: Sarai List >> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 1:33:10 >> PM >> > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran >> Hashmi takes >> > > a U turn >> > > > > >> > > > > If I were to explain further on >> Malik's >> > > statement, If >> > > > > somebody is rejected >> > > > > because of being a non-vegetarian, and >> if the >> > > person >> > > > > happens to belong to a >> > > > > minority community, I am sure, it would >> be >> > > twisted to be >> > > > > one because of >> > > > > being in the community and all hell >> would be let >> > > loose by >> > > > > the >> > > > > Pseudo-seculars and the media. >> > > > > >> > > > > Regards, >> > > > > V Murali >> > > > > >> > > > > On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Rakesh >> Iyer >> > > >> > > > > wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > > I only hope it's for the sake of >> disallowing >> > > the >> > > > > non-vegetarians and not >> > > > > > for disallowing the Muslims. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> _________________________________________ >> > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on >> media and >> > > the >> > > > > city. >> > > > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > > > > with subscribe in the subject header. >> > > > > To unsubscribe: >> > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > > > List archive: >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Yahoo! >> recommends >> > > that you upgrade to the new and >> > > > > safer Internet Explorer 8. >> > > > http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ >> > > > > >> _________________________________________ >> > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on >> media and >> > > the >> > > > > city. >> > > > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > > > > with subscribe in the subject header. >> > > > > To unsubscribe: >> > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > > > List archive: >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > See the >> Web's >> > > breaking stories, >> > > > > chosen by people like you. Check out >> Yahoo! >> > > Buzz. >> > > > http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ >> > > > > >> _________________________________________ >> > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on >> media and >> > > the >> > > > > city. >> > > > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > > > > with subscribe in the subject header. >> > > > > To unsubscribe: >> > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > > > List archive: >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > _________________________________________ >> > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on >> media and the >> > > city. >> > > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > > with >> > > > subscribe in the subject header. >> > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > > List archive: >> > > > >> > > _________________________________________ >> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and >> the >> > > city. >> > > Critiques & Collaborations >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> > > with subscribe in the subject header. >> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > > List archive: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 12:26:57 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:26:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908132100k5af597c3t81eeaf41445ba3ed@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560908100331n1c28c00ehd849fbf88e866741@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908120441h71e24400p80e27b3c08e86af0@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908120515q56734bb8vd1d10ac58eb62f4e@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908130401o10a6776ah6545c763a9b5fad0@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908130624o69e47b3eg6af2fd6924819580@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908132100k5af597c3t81eeaf41445ba3ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Murali ji Please specify the sources of some of your arguments.(5th, 6th, 1st Secondly, since you have put up arguments against Islam and Christianity, and earlier about Muslims as well, can you tell what to do with all these? Nobody, I have seen on this forum, has the guts to tell at least what to do with these people. At least the VHP says that Muslims and Christians must be given patriotic education (when asked that is, and may be RSS schools may be the best place to give that to them probably, in VHP's eyes). What would you like to do with them? I don't say Muslims are right or wrong. Also, some of these voices are mainly elitist, unlike say people on the ground level, the common people. At least let us know what their views are as well. And assuming Muslims still want India to be an Islamized nation, does it mean we destroy their mosques and drive them out of this country (or throw them into the sea) to stop it? Even the NDA govt. did not dare to do that, nor can the BJP even with a full majority on its own.(Infact, Golwalkar doesn't want Muslims to be thrown away, but always be subjected to a life of 'dhimmis' where by they pay their taxes and live based on goodwill of the majority community) Awaiting your reply Regards Rakesh From javedmasoo at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 12:36:07 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:36:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment Message-ID: Dear Murali V Could you please give us the accurate sources for the statements you have quoted, especially the page number of "India Wins Freedom" (for #3), and for #5 and 6. J On 8/14/09, Murali V wrote: > A SIMI has an ideiology, Seventh Adventists have an ideology and the > list goes on. > > Just as many others have no other business but claiming to be secular > and constant bashing on any one talking pro-hinduism and calling hindu > fanaticism. > > Krishna fought for justice and he has also stated that to get justice > no method is wrong or dubious. > > Talking of ideologies > > 1. At this point I would like to quote his very words of St Xavier. > “When I have finished baptising the people, I order them to destory > the huts in which they keep their idols; and I have them break the > statues of their idols into tiny pieces, since they are now > Christians. I could never come to an end describing to you the great > consolation which fills my soul when I see idols being destroyed by > the hands of those who had been idolaters,” (from The Letters and > Instructions of Francis Xavier, 1993, pp 117-8). > > 2. Seven states, led by Italy, urged the union to recognise a > "historical truth" and refer explicitly to the "Christian roots of > Europe" in its new constitution. The largely Catholic states of Italy > Poland, Lithuania, Malta, Portugal, the Czech Republic and Slovakia > have made clear they want more. The Vatican has made clear that it > wants a reference to Christianity in the document. "If you are the > prime minister of a Catholic country it would be very useful to have > the Pope on your side, especially when you hold a referendum on the > constitution," said one diplomat. It is an Irony, that VATICAN wants > christianity included in the Constitution of the EU, while scoffing at > certain sections stance of a HINDU nation. > > 3. Maulana Abul Kalam Azad was against partition, but the intentions > were sinister. Do you know what Maulana Abul Kalam Azad had to say on > the partition which he had stated in his book. Maulana Abdul Kalam > Azad, a so-called 'liberal' and 'secular' Muslim, led a campaign > against 'Vande Maataram' on the grounds that it was 'anti-Islamic'. He > had opposed the partition of India and Jawaharlal Nehru was quick to > declare him 'a great nationalist leader', but the Maulana in his book > "India Wins Freedom" has discussed the reason for his opposition. He > was of the opinion that the creation of a separate Muslim state would > divide the Muslim population and India would have fewer number of > Muslims, thus dealing a blow to the process of Islamization of India, > hence the opposition. > > 4. In 1924, Tagore's genuine fears about the divided loyalty of > Muslims appeared in Times of India (18-4-1924): 'A very important > factor which is making it almost impossible for Hindu-Muslim unity to > become an accomplished fact is that the Muslims cannot confine their > patriotism to any one country. I had frankly asked many Muslims > whether, in the event of any Mohammedan power invading India, they > would stand side by side with their Hindu neighbours to defend their > common motherland, I was not satisfied with the reply I got from them. > I can definitely state that such men as Mr.Mohammed Ali have declared > that under no circumstances is it permissible for any Mohammden > whatever be his country to stand against any Mohammadan'. > > 5. Maulana Mohammed Ali who paid this 'noble' (!!) tribute to Mahatma > Gandhi in 1924 in Aligarh and Ajmer: 'However pure Mr. Gandhiji's > character may be, he must appear to me from the point of view of > religion inferior to any Mussalman, even though he be without > character'. An year later when he was questioned at a public meeting > in Lucknow, the immortal and irreplaceable Maulana Mohammed Ali > cheerfully accepted and even 'improved' (!!) upon his previous command > performance by saying: Yes, according to my religion and creed, I do > hold an adulterous and a fallen Mussalman to be better than Mahatma > Gandhi. That is religion over national pride for you. > > 6. Maulana Mohammed Ali was given the supreme honour by the > ever-nervous towards the Muslims, Congress Party to preside over the > Kakinada Session of the Congress in 1923. Mr.Mohammed Ali declared > that under no circumstances is it permissible for any Mohammden > whatever be his country to stand against any Mohammadan". > > 7. The Vatican Ideology > The previous pope during the World Parliament of Religions passed a > resolution a few years ago proclaiming that all religions were various > pathways to One Ultimate Reality and called for unity and brotherhood > of all religions, the Vatican came out with a prompt rejection of the > view and emphatically proclaimed that Roman Catholicism was the only > true religion and others could not be accepted to be true. > > Good luck. > > Regards, > V Murali > > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:35 AM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: >> >> I think this reminds me that all of us must clearly specify our biases. I >> think that would be better off because it is a critical issue. At least >> let >> us be honest to ourself and towards others in this forum, rather than >> shooting from the back and speaking on behalf of others while not >> accepting >> it publicly. >> >> To begin with, my first bias is clearly against RSS, and I have no issues >> in >> accepting that. Why I do so, is something I have already specified many >> times. My bias against them, is mostly on their ideology towards other >> religions, and the acts they and their sister organizations have indulged >> in. I don't think all the human rights organizations along with some of >> the >> 'sickular' (if that's what Pawan jee refers to for someone secular) >> organizations can all be telling lies. Someone has got to be speaking the >> truth, at least the victims if nothing else. >> >> My bias is not towards parties but towards policies, and it's a pro-bias. >> What is important is policies which help the people at large, rather than >> lead to mutual acrimony and bickering. It seems that is the case on this >> forum, where now Rajen ji, Murali ji, and a few others have no other >> business but going in style on Hindutva and Hindu-Muslim issues. >> >> For them, the only thing I wish to remind is that India is not just >> Gujarat >> or Modi-pradesh. It is too diverse to even have one single ideology as its >> cornerstone and foundation. And the struggle for justice and for freedoms >> (which in itself includes some kind of responsibility) will continue. >> Because for me, justice and freedoms are more important than Hinduism, >> Islam >> or even Hindutva. >> >> And it's something which Krishna himself fought for, the right to justice, >> which I remember today on the occasion of Janmashtami. >> >> Regards >> >> Rakesh >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 12:45:27 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:45:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908132156s2cbc9b7fgfdba54d854b125b7@mail.gmail.com> References: <722442.13451.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908131008o1038548ft57cdbd38ce7a1d13@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908132156s2cbc9b7fgfdba54d854b125b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Good Murali ji So Muslims and Christians are not Indians, but the rest are. Great observation. Now that you have considered them not to be Indians, I understand your worries. I think you should join some of these organizations like the Bajrang Dal, the Ram Sene and others which can help in eliminating some of these non-Indians and help you to live peacefully. At least they do something on the ground, why not join them? Why wasting your energy and time on this forum? Also, by putting the you-tube link, you are trying to say that Muslims are not human beings but simply killers whose only job is to rape women of other religions, be the dominant religion and spread the medicine of intolerance across the world. For your information, I am as much against those Muslims who believe in this, as against you. So, I am against SIMI as well, ideologically. (Although that doesn't mean I approve banning of SIMI, firstly because there is no proof of their involvement in acts they are accused of, and secondly because if they have to be banned because of ideology, so also the RSS must be banned as well, because both of them focus on Muslim and Hindu nationalisms rather than Indian nationalism) Regards Rakesh From murali.chalam at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 12:50:35 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:50:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908100331n1c28c00ehd849fbf88e866741@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908120441h71e24400p80e27b3c08e86af0@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908120515q56734bb8vd1d10ac58eb62f4e@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908130401o10a6776ah6545c763a9b5fad0@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908130624o69e47b3eg6af2fd6924819580@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908132100k5af597c3t81eeaf41445ba3ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908140020h6006ecefg192fcbc1e9a91fef@mail.gmail.com> Ref for 5th http://www.boloji.com/analysis2/0131.htm Ref for 6th http://pseudosecularism.blogspot.com/2006/09/to-reject-vande-mataram-is-no-treason.html Ref for 1st http://www.christianaggression.org/item_display.php?id=1131077479&type=articles The people will have to accept the law of the land and not have their own convenient laws. Accept what the majority believe as patriotism and patriotic anthems. All missionaries and Madrasas to stop receiving foreign aid specifically for increasing the numbers. Regards, V Murali On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Murali ji > > Please specify the sources of some of your arguments.(5th, 6th, 1st > Secondly, since you have put up arguments against Islam and Christianity, > and earlier about Muslims as well, can you tell what to do with all these? > Nobody, I have seen on this forum, has the guts to tell at least what to do > with these people. At least the VHP says that Muslims and Christians must be > given patriotic education (when asked that is, and may be RSS schools may be > the best place to give that to them probably, in VHP's eyes). What would you > like to do with them? > > I don't say Muslims are right or wrong. Also, some of these voices are > mainly elitist, unlike say people on the ground level, the common people. At > least let us know what their views are as well. And assuming Muslims still > want India to be an Islamized nation, does it mean we destroy their mosques > and drive them out of this country (or throw them into the sea) to stop it? > Even the NDA govt. did not dare to do that, nor can the BJP even with a full > majority on its own.(Infact, Golwalkar doesn't want Muslims to be thrown > away, but always be subjected to a life of 'dhimmis' where by they pay their > taxes and live based on goodwill of the majority community) > > Awaiting your reply > > Regards > > Rakesh > From murali.chalam at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 12:53:46 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:53:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: References: <722442.13451.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908131008o1038548ft57cdbd38ce7a1d13@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908132156s2cbc9b7fgfdba54d854b125b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908140023x3180947fid6dc375083f94bb9@mail.gmail.com> I dont say I consider them as not Indians, but the actions leads one to such derivations. Regards, V Murali On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 12:45 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Good Murali ji > > So Muslims and Christians are not Indians, but the rest are. Great > observation. Now that you have considered them not to be Indians, I > understand your worries. I think you should join some of these organizations > like the Bajrang Dal, the Ram Sene and others which can help in eliminating > some of these non-Indians and help you to live peacefully. At least they do > something on the ground, why not join them? Why wasting your energy and time > on this forum? > > Also, by putting the you-tube link, you are trying to say that Muslims are > not human beings but simply killers whose only job is to rape women of other > religions, be the dominant religion and spread the medicine of intolerance > across the world. For your information, I am as much against those Muslims > who believe in this, as against you. So, I am against SIMI as well, > ideologically. (Although that doesn't mean I approve banning of SIMI, > firstly because there is no proof of their involvement in acts they are > accused of, and secondly because if they have to be banned because of > ideology, so also the RSS must be banned as well, because both of them focus > on Muslim and Hindu nationalisms rather than Indian nationalism) > > Regards > > Rakesh > > > > > > > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 13:09:14 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:09:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: References: <722442.13451.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908131008o1038548ft57cdbd38ce7a1d13@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908132156s2cbc9b7fgfdba54d854b125b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear all I promise one more thing. I have the data, and would like to put that in a proper format. I hope I have time by say today evening or tomorrow morning, so that all of us get to know what are the proper statistics for the same. Please give me time for this, and I will put this for sure. Regards Rakesh From rohitrellan at aol.in Fri Aug 14 14:10:19 2009 From: rohitrellan at aol.in (rohitrellan at aol.in) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 04:40:19 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] Modernity through the eyes of SIN : Call for Speakers In-Reply-To: <8CBE9427A5DDE38-1114-1B8D@webmail-dg02.sysops.aol.com> References: <94a4c3c70908110805j6d76bfe5n28883457bf3fbd1e@mail.gmail.com> <8CBE8C1F70BD21D-C24-3FA@MBLK-M35.sysops.aol.com> <94a4c3c70908120133k2aebbbdbi2f716830f6a92fd9@mail.gmail.com> <8CBE9427A5DDE38-1114-1B8D@webmail-dg02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CBEAD1FD8B91A6-7EC-2616@webmail-dd07.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message-----  From: Abhishek Kumar   To: rohitrellan at aol.in  Sent: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 2:03 pm  Subject: Re: Modernity through the eyes of SIN      Dear All    BIM Trichy Alumni Association has been organizing events in various cities on topics that explore inter-disciplinary space  (POLIS – June 09 on Politics, Music, Poetry and Cinema), Money (Feb 2008 on Money and economics, sociology, art and philosophy), Ganges ( Oct 2006 on cultural symbols) etc.    Our next event is on exploring the concept of Modernity. I am enclosing a brief write up on the proposed event. We are looking for speakers for this event. As you may see in the write-up, we need 4 speakers (one each for 4 different topics – those who would like to relate Modernity and sin to music, history, paintings and art of conversation.    I would request you to call me if you are interested or if you know someone who might be interested.         Regards    Abhishek Kumar    99105 58913 (abhishekkumar76 at gmail.com)              Modern Times    Sin – In thought word & action         Modernity has always meant a break from the past. Curiously though the ways of past often re-appear in future as modern and hold generations in thrall however Modernity still remains an arrogant and ignorant derision of past by an over-confident present.     A modern life is char  acterized primarily by its outlook towards family, society, money, religion, sex and God. This outlook is evocatively captured in various forms of art, history, music, philosophy ad most interestingly in general day to day conversation.    Modern Times, the event, shall condense and contemporise, centuries of modernity and primitivism and create a heady concoction of Modern Times with art, history, music and art of conversation as ingredients.    A riveting story of changing times and their remaining the same    ·         A journey through the modernity of Indo, Roman and Islamic cultures    ·         Impressions of Sin on canvas through the ages – Modern and Primitive    ·         Masti with Modernity – A coffee-table chat a la Koffee with Karan         Anchored by ________with western music as prop         India International Centre    40, Max Mueller Marg, Delhi 3    9th January 2010, Saturday              A BIM Trichy Alumni Association Presentation                               ________________________________________________________________________ You are invited to Get a Free AOL Email ID. - http://webmail.aol.in From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Aug 14 15:50:11 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:20:11 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] NXP's MIFARE DESFire to Power CRIS' Contactless Smart Cards- 196 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908140320s7af313cfqf177ef9f179248dd@mail.gmail.com> NxP gets its first major contract to supply contactless smart cards to Indian Railways. ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.itnewsonline.com/news/NXPs-MIFARE-DESFire-to-Power-CRIS-Contactless-Smart-Cards/14604/8/1 NXP's MIFARE DESFire to Power CRIS' Contactless Smart Cards IT News Online Staff 2009-08-13 NXP Semiconductors announced that its secure microcontroller-based chip technology MIFARE DESFire has been selected by the Center for Railway Information Systems (CRIS), an IT organization under the Ministry of Railways, to power contactless smart cards for automatic fare collection using ATVMs (Automatic Ticket Vending Machines) across various cities in India. Indian Railways, one of the largest and busiest rail transport networks in the world, carrying over 18 million passengers every day, will use NXP's technology solutions to improve the overall passenger experience and drive operational efficiencies. NXP said the announcement confirms its strategy to focus on its leadership position in the Identification business in India. On a global basis, 75% of all electronic tickets in public transport use NXP MIFARE technology. CRIS developed an Automatic Ticket Vending Machine (ATVM) as part of an Unreserved Ticketing System (UTS), for which it has won a Prime Minister's Award for excellence in public administration from 2006 to 2008. CRIS had initially in 2007 developed the smart card based contactless ticketing solutions using NXP's MIFARE 1 KB Classic chip in Mumbai Suburban Railway and Chennai, wherein around 5 lakh cards were issued to passengers in the Central/Western Railway at Mumbai and Southern Railway at Chennai. These user-friendly ATVMs will be rolled out across five major cities in India, namely New Delhi, Secunderabad, Kolkata, Bhubaneswar and Pune. Together with card and inlay-manufacturer Siepmann's Card Systems, NXP will provide MIFARE DESFire-based ICs for around 6.5 lakh contactless cards over a period of one year. This project is expected to go live in September 2009 and will initially be rolled out in two cities. The Smart Card ticketing solution developed by CRIS using NXP's MIFARE DESFire technology is based on the international ISO 14443A standard, and provides industry-leading levels of security. This solution in its entirety has been conceptualized, designed and manufactured in India to meet Indian commuter needs under the guidance and vision of CRIS, enabled by NXP's technologies and ecosystem partners. The vision of CRIS and its development of the ATVM have been instrumental in upgrading the ticketing systems; thereby replacing traditional paper-based ticketing with Smart Cards. The adoption of contactless ticketing will greatly reduce queues at manual ticketing counters, prove economically viable and ultimately drive process efficiencies. This partnership with NXP and Siepmann's Card Systems will help CRIS provide a secure, cost-effective and superior offering to commuters on Indian Railways. P. Vishwanath Bhas, Managing Director, Siepmann's Card Systems Pvt. Ltd., said, "We are pleased to partner with NXP who have supported us in creating a state-of-the-art, secure and scalable solution for Indian Railways. We have worked closely with NXP to develop a cost-effective, manageable product that will withstand Indian conditions and provide innovative solutions to transport systems." Ashok Chandak, senior director, global sales and marketing for India for NXP Semiconductors, said, "We see a significant growth in the use of contactless Smart Card technology in transport systems in India, and are well positioned to cater to the needs of current transport infrastructure upgrades, especially road and rail projects. The project with CRIS reiterates our position as a leading player in the field of contactless Smart Card ICs used in public transit networks and access management worldwide." "NXP's secure technology platforms are ideal for multi-application smart cards in transport schemes, e-government and identity applications, and have been used in several projects such as the multipurpose national identity cards with the Government of India," added Chandak. From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 14 16:03:09 2009 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 03:33:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] cfp: Conference "Socio-Cultural Approaches to Translation" Message-ID: <987037.95612.qm@web51407.mail.re2.yahoo.com> International Conference “Socio-Cultural Approaches to Translation: Indian and European Perspectives” 10 -12 February, 2010 University of Hyderabad, Hyderabad, India. CALL FOR PAPERS Background In recent times translation has taken on a more central role in societies, whether in India or in the rest of the world. Far from being considered as a linguistic activity only it is now seen as bridging, and sometimes broadening, gaps between different cultures. In Translation Studies, its socio-cultural dimension has been taken into account. It has been shown translation may bring new inputs into local cultures to the extent that it may even reshape them. It may develop national cultures to the detriment of more regional ones, or the reverse, or also play ambivalent roles. In contexts where many languages coexist, its role as a vehicle for mediation and communication is sometimes questioned as it may elevate one language to a higher status while downplaying the others. It may reinforce jingoism or enculturation, prejudices or awareness of differences. In other words translation modifies, or preserves, the perception of the other. Hence, translating as an activity and translation as the result of this activity are inseparable from the concept of culture. From this viewpoint words are not taken for themselves but for their communicative functions. Translation methods and strategies, different linguistic systems and their constraints in terms of meaning and construction, worldviews, etc. are still analyzed, but in so far as they reveal and contribute to a particular case of intercultural communication. Besides, translations never only affect words. Texts do not appear on their own but accompany or are accompanied by pre-textual elements such as book covers, figures, diagrams, colour, real products, etc. so that translation studies should analyze translations in their overall environments. As can be seen, the concept of translation that is developed here is all-embracing. Is translation only an inter-linguistic process or does it also constitutes an inter-semiotic activity across cultures and languages? : 2 : The time has now come to analyze and estimate the socio-cultural value of translation in terms of its contribution to the receiving cultures, and also the translated cultures at times. One of the possibilities to understand a culture is to learn its language(s) and the sign systems operating within it. Another complementary one is to study what parts of it are preserved in translating. Besides being a daily activity, translation is thus a means for understanding and maybe improving inter-linguistic, inter-semiotic and intercultural communication. The question whether cultural synthesis can be achieved deserves attention. Aim of the conference: This international conference would like to bring together Indian and non-Indian perspectives on translation with a view to setting up a platform for discussion, comparison and long-term collaboration. It aims to analyze how different cultures interact and interfere with one another through translation. Venue: Centre for Study of Foreign Languages, School of Humanities, University of Hyderabad, Hyderabad, India. Hyderabad is the capital city of Andhra Pradesh and is served by an international airport. Organizers Prof. J. PRABHAKARA RAO, Coordinator, Centre for Study of Foreign Languages, School of Humanities, University of Hyderabad, Hyderabad-500 046, INDIA. Email: pjandhyala1 at gmail.com Prof. Jean PEETERS, Université de Bretagne-Sud, 4, rue Jean Zay, BP 92 116 , 56 321 Lorient Cédex, FRANCE. Email: jean.peeters at univ-ubs.fr Scientific committee Prof. J. PRABHAKARA RAO, University of Hyderabad, India. Prof. Pramod Talgeri, Vice-President, Inter-Disciplinary University, Pune Prof. B.R. Bapuji, CALTS, University of Hyderabad, India Prof. Jean PEETERS, Université de Bretagne-Sud, France. Prof. Michel BALLARD, Université d’Artois, France Prof. Teresa TOMASZKIEWICZ, Adam Mickiewicz University, Poznan, Poland. : 3 : Participants Scholars in the fields of Translation Studies, Cultural Studies, Sociolinguistics, Languages, Indology or with an interest in Intercultural Communication. Working language: English Hospitality: The hosting Institution, i.e. Centre for Study of Foreign Languages, University of Hyderabad will provide local hospitality to participants. Registration fee: Indians: Rs.1,000/-, Non-Indians: Rs.2,000/- Paper Proposals The conference encourages paper proposals in relation with the above-mentioned theme. The deadline for the submission of abstracts is 31st October, 2009. Participants intending to give a paper should email an abstract of 600 words maximum as an attached file (MSWord format or RTF) to pjandhyala1 at gmail.com and jean.peeters at univ-ubs.fr. The maximum number of papers is 20 (10 Indian and 10 non Indian). The proposals will be assessed by the scientific committee on the basis of their relevance to the conference’s topic. The scientific committee will return its decision by 30th November, 2009. Paper duration The papers should be no longer than 25 minute and will be followed by 10 minutes for discussion. Publication A selection of papers will be published. ***** From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 17:59:45 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:59:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 14 Message-ID: Source: The Hindu Date: Sunday, October 07, 2001 Link: http://www.hinduonnet.com/2001/10/07/stories/13070611.htm Article: Eliminating hunger: a challenge It is now clear that community managed food and nutrition security systems are the most effective in achieving freedom from hunger and in ensuring sustainability through low transaction costs and replicability. Noted agricultural scientist M.S. SWAMINATHAN proposes a platform for such a system, which was highlighted in his inaugural lecture at the conference on 'The Right to Food: A Challenge for Peace and Development in the 21st Century' in Rome last month. FOOD and drinking water constitute the most basic needs of a human being. Yet these needs are not met today all over the world. At the beginning of the first millennium, the Roman philosopher Seneca said "a hungry person listens neither to religion nor reason, nor is bent by prayers", thereby stressing that where hunger rules, peace cannot prevail. In spite of this understanding, hunger and malnutrition were widely prevalent in the first millennium. The situation continued in the second millennium although sometimes lack of food had an unexpected welcome outcome. One of the wars in Europe (1778-79) was termed Kartoffel Kreig, since the fighting ended when the Prussian and Austrian armies had consumed all the available potatoes in Bohemia. Towards the end of the second millennium, technological developments helped to improve food production substantially (popularly referred to as the Green Revolution), making it possible to raise the rate of food production above the population growth rate in most parts of the world. This helped to keep at bay the fears expressed by Thomas Malthus in 1798 concerning a potential mismatch between human numbers and the capacity to produce food. However, widespread poverty-induced protein-energy malnutrition (PEM) continued to persist. Mahatma Gandhi said in 1946, "to those who are hungry, God is bread". The third millennium began with the paradox of the co-existence of surplus grain and extensive endemic hunger, particularly in South Asia. Emerging technologies - in the areas of precision farming, ecotechnology, information, space and biotechnology and crop-livestock-fish integrated production systems - hold promise to foster an evergreen revolution in farming, rooted in the principles of ecology, economics, gender and social equity, energy conservation and employment generation. Hence, given appropriate blends of technologies, services and public policies, the physical availability of food can be ensured. The challenge lies in providing economic access to food through jobs or sustainable livelihood opportunities. In the midst of the prevailing gloom, there are many bright spots in relation to the elimination of hunger. It is now clear that community managed and controlled food and nutrition security systems are the most effective both in terms of achieving the desired goal of freedom from endemic, hidden and transient hunger and in ensuring sustainability through low transaction costs and replicability. Hence, I wish to propose a platform for such a system, based on three interlinked action plans. Adopt a whole life-cycle approach to nutrition security: *Pregnant women*: Overcoming maternal and foetal under-and mal- nutrition is an urgent task, since nearly 30 per cent of the children born in India are characterised by low birth weight (LBW), with the consequent risk of impaired brain development. Half of the world's malnourished children are in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. LBW is a proxy indicator of the low status of women in society, particularly of their health and nutrition status during their entire life cycle. *Nursing mothers*: Appropriate schemes will be necessary to provide support to enable mothers to breast-feed their babies for at least six months, as recommended by World Health Organisation (WHO). Policies at work places, including the provision of appropriate support services, such as creches, should be conducive to achieving this goal. *Infants (0-2 years)*: Special efforts will have to be made to reach this age group through their mothers, since they are the most unreached at present. Eight per cent of brain development is complete before the age of two. The first four months in a child's life are particularly critical, since the child is totally dependent on its mother for food and survival. *Preschool children (2-6 years)*: A well-designed integrated child development service will help cater to the nutritional and health care needs of this age group. *Youth (6-20 years)*: A nutrition-based noon meal programme in all schools (public and private and rural and urban) will help to improve the nutritional status of this group. However, a significant percentage of children belonging to this age group does not go to school due to economic reasons. Such school "push- outs" or child labourers need special attention. *Adults (20-60 years)*: The nutrition safety net to cater to this category should consist of both an entitlement programme like food stamps and the public distribution system (PDS), as well as a food for eco-development programme (a redesigned "food for work" programme). The food for eco-development programme can promote the use of foodgrains as wages for the purpose of establishing water harvesting structures (water banks) and for the rehabilitation of degraded lands and ecosystems. Thus, many downstream benefits and livelihood opportunities will be created. In designing a nutrition compact for this age group, persons working in the organised and unorganised sectors will have to be dealt with separately. Also, the intervention programmes will have to be different for men and women taking into account the multiple burden on a woman's daily life. *Old and infirm persons*: This group will have to be provided with appropriate nutritional support, as part of the ethical obligations of society towards the physically and mentally handicapped. The above whole life-cycle approach to nutrition security will help to ensure that the nutritional needs of everyone in the community and of every stage in an individual's life are satisfied (Figure 1). Such an approach is essential to confer on every child an opportunity for a productive and healthy life. Adopt a holistic action plan to achieve sustainable nutrition security at the level of each individual: *The major components of such an integrated action plan are the following:* *Identification*: Identify those who are nutritionally insecure through the gram sabha. Trained community volunteers, designated "hunger fighters", will be useful for this purpose. *Education and information empowerment*: Empower those who are not aware of their entitlements about the nutritional safety nets available to them and also undertake nutrition education. An entitlements database can be developed for each area and household entitlement cards can be issued, indicating how to access nutritional, health care and educational programmes. The educational programmes should also lay stress on culinary habits in relation to the conservation of essential nutrients in cooked food. Overcome protein and calorie malnutrition: The various steps indicated under the whole life-cycle approach will have to be adopted. The problems of child labour and of persons working in the unorganised sector will need specific attention. *Eliminate hidden hunger*: This is caused by the deficiency of micronutrients in the diet. Introduce an integrated approach including the consumption of vegetables and fruits, millets, grain legumes and leafy vegetables and the provision of fortified foods like iron and iodine fortified salt and oral dose of Vitamin A. The basic approach should be a food-based one, with emphasis on home and community nutrition gardens, wherever this is socially and economically feasible. Drinking water, hygiene and primary health care: Attend to the provision of safe drinking water and to the improvement of environmental hygiene. Also, improve the primary health care system. *Sustainable livelihoods*: Improve economic access to food through market-linked micro-enterprises supported by micro-credit. Also, create an economic stake in the conservation of natural and common property resources. Ensure that agreements under the World Trade Organisation (WTO) provide a level playing field for products coming from decentralised small scale production (production by masses or farmers' farming) as compared to those emerging from mass production technologies or factory farming. Promote job-led economic growth and not jobless growth. Pay special attention to pregnant and nursing mothers and pre- school children: Measure progress through monitoring maternal mortality rate, infant mortality rate, incidence of LBW children and male-female sex ratio. Iron-folate supplements during prenatal care should be accompanied by steps to overcome protein- energy deprivation. Mina Swaminathan has proposed a maternity and child care code which, if adopted, will help to bring down speedily MMR, IMR, LBW and stunting. Child sex ratio is a good index of the mind-set of a society in relation to the girl child. *Community food bank as an instrument of Sustainable Food and Nutrition Security* Community food banks (FCB) can be started at the village level, with initial food supplies coming as a grant from Governments and donor agencies like the World Food Programme. Later, such CFBs can be sustained through local purchases and from continued Government and international support for food for eco-development and Food for nutrition programmes. Local purchases of nutritious grain like ragi, various millets, pulses, oilseeds and tubers will help to enlarge the food basket and will prevent such locally adapted grains from becoming "lost crops". The CFB can be the entry point to not only bridging the nutritional divide, but also for fostering social and gender equity, ecology and employment. They can also be equipped to cater to emergencies like cyclones, floods, drought and earthquakes. They will help reduce transport and transaction costs and provide a transparent mechanism for fulfilling entitlements. The CFBs can be organised through self-help groups trained and entrusted with the following four major streams of responsibilities. *Entitlements*: The benefits of all government and bilateral and multilateral projects intended for overcoming under-and mal- nutrition such as Antyodaya Anna Yojana and Annapoorna can be delivered in a coordinated and interactive manner. *Ecology*: Food for eco-development with particular reference to the establishment of water banks, land care, control of desertification and afforestation. Thus, grain can be used to strengthen local level water security. The recently announced Sampoorn Gramin Rozgar Yojana provides a great opportunity for using food for eco-development. *Ethics*: This group of activities will relate to nutritional support to old and infirm persons, pregnant and nursing mothers and infants and pre-school children. *Emergencies*: This activities will relate to the immediate relief operations following major natural catastrophies like drought, floods, a cyclone and an earthquake, as well as to meet the challenge of seasonal slides in livelihood opportunities because of crop failure. Each of the above four streams of activities can be managed by four separate self-help groups of local women and men. This will help to generate a self-help revolution in combating hunger. The overall guidance and oversight may be provided by a multi- stakeholder Community Food Bank Council functioning under the oversight of the gram sabha. A diagrammatic representation of the Community Food Security System is given in Figure 2. The Prime Minister announced on August 15, the initiation of a Sampoorn Gramin Rozgar Yojana with an initial allocation of five million tonnes of grains a year. The twin goals of this programme are household food security and employment generation. The grain will be provided to State Governments free of charge. The CFB idea has also been endorsed by a special committee of Union Ministers and Chief Ministers. Therefore, there should be no impediment in launching a total attack on endemic hunger. *Resource Centres for CFBs* For the CFB movement to succeed, there is need to train managers of such food banks and to build the capacity of the community oversight council to plan and monitor the different programmes. Training modules will have to be prepared for this purpose. Accounting and monitoring software will have to be developed and the members of the self-help groups (SHG) will have to be trained in the use of the software and in managing the computer-aided knowledge centres, linked to CFBs. Four different training modules, each relating to entitlement, eco-development, ethics and emergencies will have to be developed, so that each SHG is headed by a professionally trained woman or man. A network of institutions which will provide the necessary managerial, technical and training support to managers of self-help groups and CFBs will have to be organised. All this will call for both faith in grassroot democracy and strong political commitment to ending the nutritional divide as soon as possible. In developing the programmes and priorities, the community food bank councils should keep in view: The rich diversity of experience gained through a variety of efforts over decades. The varied cultural, social, economic and agro-ecological contexts, needs and expectations. Documented examples of outstanding achievements and the lessons thus learnt. The paucity of inter-disciplinary institutions, courses and personnel at the higher level. Slow growth of grassroot level democratic institutions The limitations of funds and resources The need for priority attention to women and children; for example in South Asia, the calorie intake of adult women is on an average 29 per cent lower than that of men. Priority attention to the "hunger hotspots" in each State. The launching of a national movement for community managed nutrition security systems is an idea whose time has come since purely government administered programmes have failed to eliminate hunger and the birth of children with low weight. Grassroot level community food banks, if supported by Central and State Governments will be able to help in achieving the triple goals of nutrition for everyone, nutritional adequacy at all stages in the life cycle and insulating the economically and socially deprived sections of the community from seasonal under- and mal-nutrition. I started with a quotation from the Roman philosopher, Seneca. I would like to conclude with a poem by W. H. Auden. "Hunger allows no choice To the citizen or the police. We must love one another or die ... Defenceless under the night Our world in stupor lies; Yet, dotted everywhere, Ironic points of light Flash out wherever the Just Exchange their messages; May I, composed like them Of Eros and of dust, Beleaguered by the same Negation and despair, Show an affirming flame". Let us all strive to become affirming flames in the midst of the sea of apathy, hypocrisy and despair we see around us. * * * The writer is chairman, M.S. Swaminathan Research Foundation, Chennai. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 18:09:26 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:09:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 14 Message-ID: Source: The Hindu Date: Sunday, September 02, 2001 Link: http://www.hinduonnet.com/2001/09/02/stories/13020611.htm Article: Mass media: Disconnected from mass reality A high profile fashion week makes news, but starvation deaths do not. And, paradoxically, to make the headlines, the vulnerable sections of society have got to die. Noted journalist *P. SAINATH* examines how the media swing like a pendulum in times of crisis. MEDIA hearts bleed best in May. That is when the hard luck stories get done. Maybe because it is the month when editors and journalists feel uncomfortable. It is hot. It is hotter still for landless labourers. But at least they can migrate to all sorts of places in search of work. (Sadly, their travel agents do not seem to be able to get them bookings for Kulu Manali.) "Sunlight-based industries" work in this season. Those in Kalahandi or Bolangir can go to Vizianagaram or Hyderabad to make bricks. Others can go to work in building construction or painting. You can earn money making ropes. The heat is miserable. It is far worse around the furnace of a brick kiln. But you can earn something. Once the rains are in, much of the crisis in agriculture is assumed to be over. After all, was not scarcity of water the problem? (Except, of course, for the floods.) Hundreds of millions of Indians think "the problem" goes far beyond these issues. But their views do not count for much. Right now, if all the agricultural labour unions in the country held a press conference in Delhi, they would be lucky if half a dozen journalists turn up. If they marched in lakhs down the streets of the capital, they might make a photograph and two columns. Never mind that agricultural labour is the most vulnerable section of the Indian poor. Or that they - meaning tens of millions of human beings - are at the receiving end of a man-made crisis. It does not make news. Not much. Contrast that with the saturation coverage given to the Lakme Fashion Week in Mumbai early this month. According to the organisers, there were just 250 buyers at the grand show. But there was a large turnout of journalists. No less than 220 of them. Almost one for every buyer. In some major newspapers, they produced more copy in a week than the ongoing crisis in the countryside has in the past few months. On television, spin-off stories from the fashion week are still continuing, featured every night by many channels. Long after the 250-buyer event is over. Anyone tried counting the number of journalists assigned to cover the mess in agriculture? In the countryside, it is from August to mid-October, between sowing and harvest in many States, that the survival games for the poor enter their sharpest phase. This year, that season unfolds in the midst of a serious crisis. And it is anyway the period when landless labourers have nothing to do and nowhere to go. There is no construction work and you cannot make bricks either. It is raining, there is no work at home and little to be found elsewhere. No food-for-work or other employment programmes for the poor in this period. Those peak in May, when the media is still looking. The moral outrage in the national media over the deaths in Orissa and elsewhere is good. It means the triumph of elite insensitivity has not been total. But it misses at least three things. One, the deaths are just a symptom of a much larger crisis. For every person who dies, there are millions of others who live on, but in acute hunger. It seems, though, that only deaths (in significant number) make a story. For every farmer committing suicide in Anantapur in Andhra Pradesh, there are thousands more who do not but whose conditions are as miserable. However, to make the headlines, they have got to die. Meanwhile, there is something bizarre about watching a moving story on deaths in Chattisgarh while a corner of the TV screen offers solace in the Sensex being up by nine points. Maybe the peasants died cheering. Sadly, the moving stories seem to trigger the "charity" mode in the media. Why cannot the Government distribute free grain to the poor? It would not have to if it did not destroy their livelihoods in the first place. And if it respected their rights and entitlements as citizens. And could see why the Public Distribution System (PDS) is important. Those mountains of grain are not huge "surpluses" but the result of destroying the purchasing power of the poor. People seek justice, not pity. Second, the media miss, or do not want to see, the link between the distress in the countryside and the policies of the past decade. Policies so lustily applauded by the same media. Sections of the regional press have done a better job than their "national" counterparts. Local Telugu journalists have looked at the distress in Anantapur more soberly. They have seen the policy roots of the tragedy there. The little newsletters of western Orissa have sharply portrayed the plight of returning migrants. Some migrants would not claim the bodies of family members who die on the train home for fear of railway police harassment. These fighting little papers showed how this year's extra heavy migrations led to crashing wages in the destination cities. They too could see the link between policy and consequence. Mostly, such journals are owned by maverick individuals, not by corporate chains. In the national media, too, both print and television have seen a few exceptional and outstanding reports from individual journalists. But that is exactly what they were. Exceptions. The media as an institution cared little. And such reporters are often sneered at as being "activists". It needed President K. R. Narayanan, yet again, to draw attention to a basic fact in his Independence Day speech. What is happening is more than an aberration. It calls for a big rethink on the country's present direction. After months, the notion of mountains of grain versus oceans of hunger has finally begun to sink in. The idea of rotting grain going to the rats has now invited media criticism and rightly so. Better late than never. Few though, have commented on the Government's attempts to dump grain in the sea or export it to other nations, even as hunger rises at home. Fewer still mentioned that at least two countries rejected the first shipments of grain that India tried exporting to them. Both dismissed it as "substandard". Almost none make the link between policy and the disaster. Both the press and television have reported the Supreme Court's scathing remarks on State Governments giving absurd and outrageous replies to a petition on the right to food. The Himachal Pradesh Government asserts there are no destitutes in that State. Some of the others deny a crisis. It is good the media reports this at all. But if the State Governments dared to be so brazen in denying a crisis, it is because they feel they can rely on the media's own blindness to it. They know they can mostly get away with it. How much better if those scathing remarks had come from the press before the Court made them. Unlike the courts, the media have the resources and the personnel to get out into the countryside and do their own investigations. The important thing is not just starvation, but also more widespread hunger and distress. In the past three years, distress suicides have been reported from Punjab and Haryana. But they have not got even the kind of space or treatment they would have had they been in Kalahandi. That would break the stereotype. In early 1997, the Wall Street Journal gave more space to the farmers' suicides in A.P. than any major newspaper did here. No Indian magazine placed those events on its cover. How could we? That would mean undermining Chandrababu Naidu. Darling of a media that views information technology with a lot of awe, but little understanding, Naidu has learned well the shibboleths he needs to mouth from time to time to the media cooing in line. The third thing the national media misses is a scrutiny of its own priorities. Can the media help with solutions in this time of rising hunger and distress? Very little, so long as we peddle the illusion that it has nothing to do with the policies of the last 10 years. Beating up on "official callousness" and "administrative neglect" sounds radical but does not tell the story. "Poor implemention" is another herring that swims on and on. Quite a bit of the distress in recent times is the result of a rather aggressive implementation of policy. The destruction of the PDS. The conscious closure of rural credit. Putting health care even further out of the reach of the poor than it was before. The cutting of spending on the poor. These are policies. Not natural calamities. Powerful sections of the media that once played cheerleaders to Enron and Associated Electronic Services (AES) speak mildly now about the havoc those deals have wreaked. But they are still all for ending imagined "subsidies" in power to poor farmers. There has been no look at the damage caused by corrupt and wrong-headed "reforms" in this sector to rural India. It was around 1992 that hunger-related deaths began to resurface in independent India in a big way, Sure, there had been some incidents post-1947. But it was after 1991 that the crunch set in. It is in the last decade that these kinds of deaths have occurred with such frequency. And on such a scale. That too, in some of the richest States. In 1992, tens of thousands of poor peasants from Thane, mainly adivasis, marched into Mumbai in protest. The press mostly came up with the staple photograph and inevitable caption: "Farmers Demand Remunerative prices". Actually, those farmers were saying something else. They were saying the devastation inflicted on the PDS was hurting them. That the collapsing health system was endangering their lives. That they could not afford the new costs being inflicted on them. That too, when spending on the poor was being slashed. Ironically, they ended their march close by to the Stock Exchange. But we were too busy looking up at the Sensex which had crossed 2,000 - a heady high in those primitive days - to notice the protesters on the ground. Two weeks later, 29 children died of hunger-related problems in Thane. The press duly flayed the Government. A chief minister did the mandatory helicopter trip to the place. "Erring officials" were "dealt with" in the headlines and the show went on. With the press attacking "implementation" but cheering the very policies that had triggered the deaths. Then, too, our journalism came after deaths. Had we cared at all to listen to the protesters, some of those children - and many others who have died since - might have been alive. We still have a chance to get out there and listen. And maybe save something more than a fashion week. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 18:11:34 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:11:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 14 Message-ID: Source: The Hindu Date: Friday, Mar 11, 2005 Link: http://www.hinduonnet.com/2005/03/11/stories/2005031115880300.htm Article: New Delhi [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] * Fair price shop sealed after protest * By Our Staff Reporter NEW DELHI, MARCH 10. Following an agitation by hundreds of residents of Vikaspuri and New J.J. Colony Hastasal, under the banner of Delhi Shramik Sangathan, the Food and Supplies Department has sealed the fair price shop located in Circle 27 for having failed to supply rations and kerosene oil to ration card holders despite directions by the Government in this regard. The residents had staged a protest in front of the office of the Food Supply Officer, Circle 27, recently to convey their strong resentment at not getting their requisite quota of food grains and kerosene oil from the fair price shop no. 2718 Khandelwal Store. Following an inspection by the Assistant Commissioner (West) Ravi Kant, who found the store not adhering to norms laid down by the Department, the shop was sealed and people of the area were promised a new fair price shop that would be allotted to the people of the area. Earlier, the community people holding Antodaya, Below Poverty Line and Annapoorna cards had highlighted the malfunctioning of the fair price shop, which they alleged had not been functioning as per norms thus denying them their right to food. To make the administration understand their problem, the residents got together and sat on the dharna. Under pressure from the people, the Food Supply Officer of the area informed the gathering that the shopkeeper had been issued a show cause notice and a strict warning. However, when this did not deter the store owner, the authorities went ahead and cancelled his allotment, according to Delhi Shramik Sangathan. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 18:19:08 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:19:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 14 Message-ID: Source: The Hindu Date: Friday, Jul 12, 2002 Link: http://www.hinduonnet.com/2002/07/12/stories/2002071201301000.htm Article: Opinion - Editorials [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] * Life and death * EVERY NOW AND then India is brutally reminded that its citizens can still die of starvation. A year after starvation deaths were reported from Kashipur in Orissa, come reports of similar deaths from Palamau district of Jharkhand. Now as then, the poor in the area had been surviving by consuming herbs and leaves collected from the wild before their wretched lives were finally brought to an end by starvation. This is a complete failure of governance in the most fundamental sense. If the past is any guide, then the final outcome of this episode will be that a period of political and public anger will end once again with governance returning to its normal state of inadequacy and public concern returning to its usual insensitivity. The ebb and flow of the agenda on the most basic of rights, the right to food, has been demonstrated so clearly in the past year. The Government's food mountain of 60 million tonnes was the focus of public discourse after the Kashipur deaths in August 2001, but the issue quickly faded from the public consciousness even as grain continued to accumulate in godowns. The crime of allowing even one death due to starvation is as serious today as it was a year ago, perhaps more, considering that Government food stocks on June 1 were as much as 65 million tonnes compared to 61 million tonnes at the same time last year. The country can claim that there is no mass starvation, though it does not need mentioning that malnutrition remains a major problem. Starvation, however, is a constant threat in parts of eastern and central India as also in remote pockets in other States. That deaths due to starvation occur only in a few areas and that too not regularly is hardly defensible on moral or administrative grounds. It is precisely the remote, the poorly-endowed, the backward and the regions where work is scarce that should be the focus of (Central and State) Government attention. In Manatu block of Palamau district, where starvation deaths have been reported, citizens' groups have through a detailed survey brought out that the public distribution system (PDS) is more absent than present. The Supreme Court may have directed in November 2001 that all States should institute the national mid-day meal programme in schools by January 2002, but the scheme is non-operational in this area. In Kusumatand village where three people died of starvation, no resident had received any grain under the below the poverty line scheme of the PDS. And allocation through the Antyodaya programme, which provides grain at highly subsidised prices to the poorest of the poor, was lower than the norm and those lucky to hold these cards were paying much more than they should have. Clearly, while the Central and State Governments may announce any number of welfare programmes, these either do not exist on the ground or are a source of corruption in the very areas that they are needed the most. A number of attempts have been made over the past year to tinker with the PDS. This has taken the form of either formulating new schemes (such as Antyodaya) or rolling back some of the more extreme decisions of the past (such as raising prices for the non-poor to open market levels). From the narrow point of containing the bloating of food stocks, some of these measures have helped at the margin. But for these and other steps such as the sale of grain at subsidised prices to exporters, stocks would today have been closer to 75 million tonnes. While the financial costs of ever-increasing food stocks do have to be dealt with, there is a larger social responsibility as well. This is where both the Centre and the Government of Jharkhand have exhibited a colossal failure by having access to millions of tonnes of food and yet being unable to provide grain to people for whom this is a matter of life and death. * * From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 18:22:11 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:22:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kuldip Nayar's another article(Iong back it appeared in the Hindu) Message-ID: Dear all This is for all those who love the BJP, Modi ji and RSS. Keep enjoying. And specially for all those who love Kuldip Nayar. Do read it. Enjoy. Regards Rakesh Source: The Hindu Date: Thursday, Jun 27, 2002 Link: http://www.hinduonnet.com/2002/06/27/stories/2002062700881000.htm Article: Opinion - Leader Page Articles * Distanced from the people * By Kuldip Nayar * Whether it is the police or the administrative set-up, it functions at the behest of the rulers alone. Some years ago, the consideration was politics. Now caste and creed also play a role. * DURING The day, time somehow passes off at the Shah Alam camp but at night, it is not so. The sound of someone crying, screaming or simply beating someone else is commonplace. At night, the souls of the dead appear to visit their loved ones. The souls hug their orphan children to their chest and try to search for answers by looking into their eyes. Once the entire camp is asleep, the children wait to see their mothers and have dinner with their fathers. "How are you, Siraj," the soul of a mother asks her child. "How are you mother," the child responds. "Now I have become a soul, so no one can burn me alive." "Mother, can I also become like you?" How poignant. How touching and how telling. This is part of a long treatise in Hindi someone has sent me from the Shah Alam camp, where hundreds of Muslims took shelter after the carnage in Gujarat. Their suffering is the worst kind of human rights violation anywhere in the world. I do not know how long is their night of sorrow. They had a past but have no present, no future. The Prime Minister's Office, which is supposed to oversee the rehabilitation, is too soft on the State Government. Little does it realise that this is a matter of human beings, who have the right to get justice in any civilised society, not a particular community. Gujarat's Chief Minister, Narendra Modi, is still very much there. In fact, he becomes a mascot of the BJP which wants to cash in on the polarisation in the State. The National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) is as helpless as the inmates of the Shah Alam camp. I wish the NHRC could do more. At least it can make more noise. The State Government has rejected its second report. The question that stares us in the face is: how can we protect human rights when the protectors themselves are a guilty party? I am referring to the state machinery, including the police, which has got not only politicised but communalised. What happened in Gujarat is happening all over the country in one shape or the other. Whether it is the police or the administrative set-up, it functions at the behest of the rulers. Some years ago, the consideration was sheer politics. Now caste and creed also play a role. This is reprehensible but is happening increasingly. Human rights are the casualty. Rulers are also losing their sensitivity. They hardly feel the privations of affected people. Take, for example, the Mann dam. This project is one of several large dams being built on the Narmada river and its tributaries. This dam will submerge homes and lands, the rich black cotton soil of several hundreds of Adivasi families. The history of the Mann dam, like many others in India, is a story of unkept promises. The project received the legally binding environmental clearance from the Central Environment Ministry in 1984. The condition of the clearance was that the affected Adivasis must be resettled on non-forest agricultural land. Whatever the assurance, the Madhya Pradesh Government has violated the conditions of environmental clearance and the provisions of its own rehabilitation policy. Cash compensation of sorts has been considered adequate. Madhya Pradesh's Chief Minister, Digvijay Singh, is considered better than many others. Apparently, he thinks that doing business with Mr. Modi is more rewarding than with the Adivasis who will have no land or home after the Mann dam attains a particular height. The Narmada Project Award, now several years old, makes it clear that before disturbing people from their places, alternative sites for their rehabilitation should be ready six months earlier. This has not been followed either in Gujarat or Madhya Pradesh. The question is not whether some people are against the dam or not, but whether the oustees have any claim to rehabilitation before they are uprooted. The oustees have themselves identified some chunks of agricultural land for themselves on which they are willing to be resettled. Their demand to the Government is that these lands should be developed with irrigation facilities and should be allotted to them immediately. On the one hand, the State Government has totally failed to provide agricultural lands to the oustees and on the other it has unleashed a reign of terror to force the Adivasis to flee without any rehabilitation. Government officials, along with a large posse of armed police and forest contractors, are roaming the area and spreading terror by ambushing, intimidating and threatening to shoot the Adivasis if they resist. They have cut down a large number of trees in the villages and have razed to the ground several primary schools, two middle schools, two storehouses and one health centre in the area. The officials also have severed all electricity connections in the affected villages. However, the pinnacle of the Madhya Pradesh Government's inhumanity has been the extraction, the removal and bulldozing of all hand pumps in the affected villages in the area last month; at the height of summer as the temperature in the districts of western Madhya Pradesh soared to 47-48 degree centigrade. With the Mann river completely dry, removal of all hand pumps shows scant respect for human life, much less human rights. As many as 5,000 Adivasis have been exposed to the danger of death through thirst. The district administration is candid about its intentions. When questioned about the action, they said that it was the only way to oust the people. The affected people have refused to quit. They are staying in their villages, confronting the state terror and have asserted that not only would they not move in the face of state terror but more than that they will be willing to face even the rising waters and submergence in the monsoon, unless they are rehabilitated. It is against state-sponsored terror that some people went on hunger strike in Bhopal. It is, however, heartening to see the Supreme Court interfering in enforcing economic and social rights. According to the Food and Agriculture Organistion (FAO), India alone accounts for over 400 million poor and hungry people. For a nation long inured to scarcity and starvation, the nature of this problem is ironic — the problem of plenty. A problem so acute that the Supreme Court was forced to take notice. Shocked at the increasing number of starvation deaths amidst overflowing foodgrain godowns of the Government — public stock exceeding 60 millon tonnes — the Supreme Court passed an interim order on November 2001 demanding that the large stocks of grain in the FCI warehouse be released with immediate effect. The Court's damning indictment and directive gives the desperately poor a reason to hope. It is a shameful treatise on both the democratic institutions and the media that the Judiciary has to step in to ensure what has been overlooked for so long — the fundamental human right to food. Starvation deaths are not new in India. The notorious Kalahandi-Bolangir-Koraput region in Orissa is a case in point. No commission has ever been set up to examine why in a food surplus nation, where buffer stocks are three times more than what is needed, thousands still die of hunger and malnutrition. For the first time, the battle for the right to food has reached the Supreme Court. In May last year, the Peoples Union for Civil Liberties filed a PIL with the Supreme Court, arguing that several federal institutions and Sate Governments should be held responsible for mass malnutrition among the people. In one of its interim orders relating to the case, the Supreme Court affirmed that where people are unable to feed themselves adequately, Governments had an obligation to provide for them, ensuring, at the very least, that they were not exposed to malnourishment, starvation and other related problems. * * From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 18:25:21 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:25:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: References: <722442.13451.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908131008o1038548ft57cdbd38ce7a1d13@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908132156s2cbc9b7fgfdba54d854b125b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: By the way, I still find one thing peculiar. Murali ji, Rajen ji, and others have repeatedly said on this forum the kind of things Islamic rulers have done in the past to temples, the kind of minority appeasement being done and so on. They don't suggest a solution for it, neither do they speak about what to be done with these Muslims (First of all they can start by indicating whether they feel these Muslims are Indian or Pakistani or something else). Could they kindly indicate that? Or they have nothing to do except shouting about the past? From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 18:27:15 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:27:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kuldip Nayar's another article(Iong back it appeared in the Hindu) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And by the way, if you don't get it, it's also an attack on the Congress and also the requirement of the Right to Food. So, three questions raised in a single article. From javedmasoo at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 18:46:30 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (Javed) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:46:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908140020h6006ecefg192fcbc1e9a91fef@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560908120441h71e24400p80e27b3c08e86af0@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908120515q56734bb8vd1d10ac58eb62f4e@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908130401o10a6776ah6545c763a9b5fad0@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908130624o69e47b3eg6af2fd6924819580@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908132100k5af597c3t81eeaf41445ba3ed@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908140020h6006ecefg192fcbc1e9a91fef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Murali By copy-pasting from various odd blogs and sites you have proven that you probably have never read the original sources or books yourself. We are still waiting for your exact reference to Maulana Azad's book. Also, what you have quoted is probably the only piece of information you know about people like Mohammad Ali, Maulana Azad and so on, and never bothered to find out about their other life achievements and writings. J On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Murali V wrote: > Ref for 5th http://www.boloji.com/analysis2/0131.htm > > Ref for 6th http://pseudosecularism.blogspot.com/2006/09/to-reject-vande-mataram-is-no-treason.html > > Ref for 1st http://www.christianaggression.org/item_display.php?id=1131077479&type=articles > > The people will have to accept the law of the land and not have their > own convenient laws. Accept what the majority believe as patriotism > and patriotic anthems. > > All missionaries and Madrasas to stop receiving foreign aid > specifically  for increasing the numbers. > > Regards, > V Murali > > > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: >> Dear Murali ji >> >> Please specify the sources of some of your arguments.(5th, 6th, 1st >> Secondly, since you have put up arguments against Islam and Christianity, >> and earlier about Muslims as well, can you tell what to do with all these? >> Nobody, I have seen on this forum, has the guts to tell at least what to do >> with these people. At least the VHP says that Muslims and Christians must be >> given patriotic education (when asked that is, and may be RSS schools may be >> the best place to give that to them probably, in VHP's eyes). What would you >> like to do with them? >> >> I don't say Muslims are right or wrong. Also, some of these voices are >> mainly elitist, unlike say people on the ground level, the common people. At >> least let us know what their views are as well. And assuming Muslims still >> want India to be an Islamized nation, does it mean we destroy their mosques >> and drive them out of this country (or throw them into the sea) to stop it? >> Even the NDA govt. did not dare to do that, nor can the BJP even with a full >> majority on its own.(Infact, Golwalkar doesn't want Muslims to be thrown >> away, but always be subjected to a life of 'dhimmis' where by they pay their >> taxes and live based on goodwill of the majority community) >> >> Awaiting your reply >> >> Regards >> >> Rakesh >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From indersalim at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 19:01:26 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:01:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Absence of Husain at Art Summit In-Reply-To: <82285.22042.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <82285.22042.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70908140631w10cdf369v3328f52b72c9060@mail.gmail.com> Dear all please click to see http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_pllHvmNB5GI/Sn7kVWsGT2I/AAAAAAAAAPE/lF_BbjckUgg/s1600-h/sraswati+with+text1.jpg image in solidarity with MF Hussain with love inder salim On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 2:36 PM, ashok kumari wrote: > > > we are submitting a memo to the home minister on Husain not being included > in the Art Summit. Please send your endorsement as soon as possible. > > Minister of Home Affairs > Government of India > North Block > New Delhi > > Dear Shri Chidambaram, > > We - artists, gallerists and critics, are approaching you on behalf of the > artists community on the long standing issue of attempts by Hindu right-wing > groups to effectively impose a ban on exhibiting any work by our greatest > living artist, 94 year old MF Husain, through threats of assault and > violence. These groups, including the BJP, Bajrang Dal, Sri Ram Sena, the > VHP, and the Shiv Sena have led a concerted communal campaign against Husain > accusing him of blasphemy since 1996. This campaign has taken a violent form > on many occasions and has also led to cases being filed against the artist > in courts across India, and has led to Husain's self-imposed exile. > > In a landmark judgement dismissing three such cases in the Delhi High Court > in 2007, Justice Sanjay Kishen Kaul defended the right of freedom of > expression under the Constitution of India. The Union Ministry of Culture, > during the previous Art Summit held in 2008 had categorically stated “Shri > M. F. Husain is one of the most prominent artist of the country and the > absence of his works at the India Art Summit will not reflect the true art > scenario of India.” > > We are very disturbed by reports that the upcoming International India Art > Summit taking place at Pragati Maidan from August 19-24th has asked > participating galleries for the second year running to not display the work > of Husain citing fear of attacks. We enclose a report from the Telegraph > which quotes them as saying that the Home Ministry has offered no assurance > of security. > > We find it shocking that the work of the most famous artist cannot be shown > in the country of his birth, even though he is not a criminal, nor is his > work proscribed or banned. The Art Summit is being attended by luminaries > from around the world, and it is a sad state of affairs that we, who > justifiably pride ourselves as a great democracy, cannot resist threats from > these groups who we see as no less than other terrorists who threaten our > daily lives. > > We request a meeting with you to apprise you of the art community's anguish > and concern. > > Yours Sincerely, > > Vivan Sundaram, Ram Rahman, Parthiv Shah, Shireen Gandhi, Dadiba Pundole, > Geetha Mehra, Gayatri Sinha, Arun Vadhera, Renu Modi, Ashish Anand, Devika > Daulet Singh, Geeta Kapur, Peter Nagy > > ________________________________ > See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! > Buzz. -- From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 19:07:25 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:07:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Crime and No Punishment: Malegaon Blast Accused Get a Respite In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908120441h71e24400p80e27b3c08e86af0@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908120515q56734bb8vd1d10ac58eb62f4e@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908130401o10a6776ah6545c763a9b5fad0@mail.gmail.com> <341380d00908130624o69e47b3eg6af2fd6924819580@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908132100k5af597c3t81eeaf41445ba3ed@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908140020h6006ecefg192fcbc1e9a91fef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908140637n22b7cf37s8f3e95094a26be82@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Anupam, how long is your wall, can any project of the like one in Mumbai, feasible.? Regards, Rajen. On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 6:46 PM, Javed wrote: > Dear Murali > By copy-pasting from various odd blogs and sites you have proven that > you probably have never read the original sources or books yourself. > We are still waiting for your exact reference to Maulana Azad's book. > Also, what you have quoted is probably the only piece of information > you know about people like Mohammad Ali, Maulana Azad and so on, and > never bothered to find out about their other life achievements and > writings. > > J > > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Murali V wrote: > > Ref for 5th http://www.boloji.com/analysis2/0131.htm > > > > Ref for 6th > http://pseudosecularism.blogspot.com/2006/09/to-reject-vande-mataram-is-no-treason.html > > > > Ref for 1st > http://www.christianaggression.org/item_display.php?id=1131077479&type=articles > > > > The people will have to accept the law of the land and not have their > > own convenient laws. Accept what the majority believe as patriotism > > and patriotic anthems. > > > > All missionaries and Madrasas to stop receiving foreign aid > > specifically for increasing the numbers. > > > > Regards, > > V Murali > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Rakesh Iyer > wrote: > >> Dear Murali ji > >> > >> Please specify the sources of some of your arguments.(5th, 6th, 1st > >> Secondly, since you have put up arguments against Islam and > Christianity, > >> and earlier about Muslims as well, can you tell what to do with all > these? > >> Nobody, I have seen on this forum, has the guts to tell at least what to > do > >> with these people. At least the VHP says that Muslims and Christians > must be > >> given patriotic education (when asked that is, and may be RSS schools > may be > >> the best place to give that to them probably, in VHP's eyes). What would > you > >> like to do with them? > >> > >> I don't say Muslims are right or wrong. Also, some of these voices are > >> mainly elitist, unlike say people on the ground level, the common > people. At > >> least let us know what their views are as well. And assuming Muslims > still > >> want India to be an Islamized nation, does it mean we destroy their > mosques > >> and drive them out of this country (or throw them into the sea) to stop > it? > >> Even the NDA govt. did not dare to do that, nor can the BJP even with a > full > >> majority on its own.(Infact, Golwalkar doesn't want Muslims to be thrown > >> away, but always be subjected to a life of 'dhimmis' where by they pay > their > >> taxes and live based on goodwill of the majority community) > >> > >> Awaiting your reply > >> > >> Regards > >> > >> Rakesh > >> > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From indersalim at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 19:12:37 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:12:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Chinese Artist Ai Weiwei harassed in Chengdu by Police In-Reply-To: <47e122a70908140445n4b7a4eebubab331a6cb4465fd@mail.gmail.com> References: <15451BD4-0D11-4285-97BE-EFE6B094C6AE@sarai.net> <47e122a70908140445n4b7a4eebubab331a6cb4465fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70908140642k70f26204la44e1827a8d33cda@mail.gmail.com> > doing a protest performance with amnest against death scentence at > India Gate ( new delhi ) was enough reason for police to arrest me and > others , we  were later released by the police with a warnning , but > in a country like China  i would have still beathing prison air behind > the bars if not dead > > the image > http://pics.livejournal.com/indersalim/pic/000fp86x/ > > is > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta > wrote: >> >>  Dear all, >> >> Please find below a shocking report of an attempt to intimidate and >> silence a very well known Chinese artist, Ai Weiwei, by police in >> Chengdu, capital of China's Sichuan province, in the course of a >> trial of the dissident activist, Tan Zuoren. >> >> Yet another instance of the way in which the Chinese state acts to >> stifle the growing body of dissent in China. >> >> best >> >> Shuddha >> -------------------- >> Chinese Artist  (Ai Weiwei) Says He Was Barred From Rights Advocate’s >> Trial >> New York Times, August 12, 2009 >> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/world/asia/13china.html? >> _r=2&ref=global-home >> >> >> By EDWARD WONG >> Published: August 12, 2009 >> BEIJING — A prominent Chinese artist and frequent critic of the >> Communist Party said he was hit by police officers and put under >> detention in his hotel room in western China on Wednesday when he >> tried to go testify at the trial of a civil rights advocate. >> >> The artist, Ai Weiwei, best known for helping to design the Bird’s >> Nest Olympic Stadium in Beijing, said dozens of police officers >> barged into his hotel room early Wednesday and the rooms of others >> who had traveled to Chengdu, the capital of Sichuan Province, to >> testify on behalf of Tan Zuoren, the rights advocate. >> >> The opening session of Mr. Tan’s trial began Wednesday morning and >> ended hours later without a verdict. The courtroom was closed to the >> public. Mr. Tan, a well-known writer, has been charged with >> subversion. He is believed to be on trial because of his role in >> pushing for an official investigation into widespread school >> collapses during the Sichuan earthquake last year, and for trying to >> organize a group event in June to commemorate the 20th anniversary of >> the massacre of civilians by government forces during the Tiananmen >> Square protests of 1989. >> >> Earlier this month, another rights advocate, Huang Qi, went on trial >> on a charge of possessing state secrets. Like Mr. Tan, he pushed for >> the government to investigate the school collapses. >> >> During the earthquake last year, thousands of students were killed >> when school buildings in Sichuan and other provinces crumbled, even >> as surrounding buildings remained standing. Grieving parents said >> shoddy construction and corruption were responsible, and demanded >> that officials investigate. Local governments went to great efforts >> to silence the parents, ordering the police to detain them, or >> handing out cash payments in exchange for the parents’ dropping their >> complaints. >> >> Initial reports from the official news media said about 7,000 >> schoolrooms collapsed and as many as 10,000 children might have died. >> In May, the government released the first official toll of students >> killed, saying 5,335 were dead or missing. >> >> Earlier this year, Mr. Ai sent volunteers to Sichuan to collect the >> names of students who had been killed. He began posting the names on >> his blog and kept a running tally. Government censors then blocked >> his blog, Mr. Ai said, while police officers in Sichuan detained some >> of his volunteers and beat a few of them. >> >> Mr. Ai said in a telephone interview on Wednesday that he had arrived >> in Chengdu the previous day to testify on behalf of Mr. Tan but that >> the judge did not allow him to. He said that he had planned to appear >> at court anyway but that he and 10 or 11 of his volunteers were >> prevented from doing so by the officers who barged into their hotel >> rooms and kept them under watch. >> “They left a couple of hours later, but some stayed in the hallway >> and some in the lobby to keep an eye on us, to make sure we failed to >> attend the trial,” Mr. Ai said from the hotel. >> >> Mr. Ai posted grainy digital photographs on Twitter of police >> officers in the hotel hallway.Someone answering the phone at the >> police headquarters in Chengdu declined to comment. The court did not >> allow anyone to testify on behalf of Mr. Tan at the trial on >> Wednesday, said Pu Zhiqiang, Mr. Tan’s lawyer.He said he would submit >> a written defense statement to the court by Monday.“However, unless >> this is an extremely rare case, Tan will be found guilty,” he said. >> >> Jonathan Ansfield contributed reporting, and Zhang Jing contributed >> research. >> >> >> >> Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> The Sarai Programme at CSDS >> Raqs Media Collective >> shuddha at sarai.net >> www.sarai.net >> www.raqsmediacollective.net >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 19:13:10 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:13:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kuldip Nayar's another article(Iong back it appeared in the Hindu) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7271ec560908140643h1dd7663md9bc17332abf1518@mail.gmail.com> The article reflects the dirty underbelly of bad governance of the system, all parties are equally, if not more are at it.BJP in the throngs of succession of leadership, Congress in the grip of a "high Command".,left in lurch with corruption of Lavelin case, safety net for criminals of murder accused of Sister Abhaya, land grabs of SEZ is going to haunt all the parties if the citizens start taking note of the land grabs.. Regards, Rajen. On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 6:27 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > And by the way, if you don't get it, it's also an attack on the Congress > and > also the requirement of the Right to Food. So, three questions raised in a > single article. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 19:23:10 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:23:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: References: <722442.13451.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908131008o1038548ft57cdbd38ce7a1d13@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908132156s2cbc9b7fgfdba54d854b125b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908140653w231ff75cyda0b88e641472430@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Rakesh, your words given below reflect as to how much you have cared to understand posts on the list, I have clearly stated that rule of laws will prevail, judiciary has to adjudicate on the dispute, expeditiously, followed by all of us,be it about the dispute of land at Ayodhya or churches or temples sprung overnight.Keep it up, you are in debate competition.............! " By the way, I still find one thing peculiar. Murali ji, Rajen ji, and others have repeatedly said on this forum the kind of things Islamic rulers have done in the past to temples, the kind of minority appeasement being done and so on " good scores of brownie points, Regards, Rajen. On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 6:25 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > By the way, I still find one thing peculiar. Murali ji, Rajen ji, and > others have repeatedly said on this forum the kind of things Islamic rulers > have done in the past to temples, the kind of minority appeasement being > done and so on. > > They don't suggest a solution for it, neither do they speak about what to > be done with these Muslims (First of all they can start by indicating > whether they feel these Muslims are Indian or Pakistani or something else). > Could they kindly indicate that? > > Or they have nothing to do except shouting about the past? > > > -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 19:27:10 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:27:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn In-Reply-To: References: <341380d00908130019m1090d9edkbc109fe97006049f@mail.gmail.com> <823583.97663.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908131013n5c15f1e2o693bca9c5d18636e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908140657l754ee6e3u68bcb8cb848a1791@mail.gmail.com> Rakesh jee, this is exchange of thoughts thru discussions, not college debate with prize to win. Regards, Rajen. On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:46 AM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > When Anupam jee was calling for boycotts, our great Hindutva biased > enthusiasts were shooting bang bang against him. Now when one of them calls > for the same approach, the rest are found nowhere. > > Murali ji, at least have the patience to think about the ideology you > believe in and whether it's right or wrong. (Whether it will make a > difference or not, is anybody's guess). > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 19:30:18 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:30:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] universal civil code In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908130415k590a1246g1c5b3499bfbda0b4@mail.gmail.com> <496232.61646.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908140700g61178c1cy850033c9afaabe5c@mail.gmail.com> Rakesh jee, "Well, now that we have had tons of discussion on the so-called different religious codes, can someone now specify why " for all these the answer is..... for equity before law, equality in laws in civil society. Regards, Rajen. On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 8:03 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Well, now that we have had tons of discussion on the so-called different > religious codes, can someone now specify why : > > 1) A uniform civil code is necessary, if at all > > 2) If it is necessary, the kind of things which should be a part of the > code. > > Don't just beat around the bush, but be specific and clear. It's a request > I make here. > -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 19:34:47 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:34:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] She with her 8-month old daughter to be sold in Ajmer. In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908131003ife00e8ele19a188d45194d5a@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00908130547r25a642b9id5a0ae3cbd2b8f0f@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908131003ife00e8ele19a188d45194d5a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908140704q4e8e209dt929f6f5553001791@mail.gmail.com> And there is class panchayath which calls for paralysed states with the protests, with bandhs and dharnas at drop of a hath.... Regards, Rajen. On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Murali V wrote: > These are the type of politicians we elect who listen to our votes and turn > deaf after that. > Regards, > V Murali > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:17 PM, prakash ray wrote: > > > She was married in her childhood. When she became adult, she married > > another > > person with the consent of all families including her first 'husband''s > > family. She gave birth to a girl-child. Both wife and husband are > > labourers. > > > > > > Suddenly the Caste Panchyat and powerful men term this marriage > 'illegal'. > > A > > punishment was declared: Either pay fine to the 'Panchayat' or this money > > will be recovered by a public auction of the woman and her daughter. > > Meanwhile, her family won't be allowed to use hand-pump and other > community > > facilities. No one will buy milk from her. She or her husband or other > > members of family will not get work under the National Rural Employment > > Guarantee Scheme. > > > > Local MLA and MP (an Union Minister) have been contacted but there is no > > response. The administration has not provided any relief to the family. > > > > A reporter from a TV channel asks her: Mehraj, will you fight against > this > > tyranny or accept the 'judgement'? > > > > Mehraj: I will fight till my last breath. > > > > Her daughter in her arms is smiling. Amazed me remembering a poem by > Ashok > > Vajpayee. > > > > कोई नहीं सुनता पुकार-- > > > > सुनती है कान खड़े कर > > > > सीढियों पर चौकन्नी खड़ी बिल्ली, > > > > जिसे ठीक से पता नहीं कि > > > > डर कर भाग जाना चाहिए या > > > > ठिठककर एकटक उस ओर देखना चाहिए। > > > > > > कोई नहीं सुनता चीख़-- > > > > सुनती है खिड़की के बाहर > > > > हरियाये पेड़ पर अचानक आ गई नीली चिड़िया, > > > > जिसे पता नहीं कि यह चीख़ है > > > > या कि आवाज़ों के तुमुल में से एक और आवाज़। > > > > > > कोई नहीं सुनता प्रार्थना-- > > > > सुनती है अपने पालने में लेटी दुधमुंही बच्ची, > > > > जो आदिम अंधेरे से निकलकर उजाले में आने पर > > > > इतनी भौंचक है > > > > कि उसके लिए अभी आवाज़ > > > > होने, न होने के बीच का सुनसान है। > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 19:36:19 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:36:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] She with her 8-month old daughter to be sold in Ajmer. In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908140704q4e8e209dt929f6f5553001791@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00908130547r25a642b9id5a0ae3cbd2b8f0f@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908131003ife00e8ele19a188d45194d5a@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908140704q4e8e209dt929f6f5553001791@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908140706o2b734261wbbe02ca7afcbd1a4@mail.gmail.com> *working Class, correction, please.** *On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:34 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi < rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote: > And there is class panchayath which calls for paralysed states with the > protests, with bandhs and dharnas at drop of a hath.... > Regards, > > Rajen. > > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Murali V wrote: > >> These are the type of politicians we elect who listen to our votes and >> turn >> deaf after that. >> Regards, >> V Murali >> >> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:17 PM, prakash ray wrote: >> >> > She was married in her childhood. When she became adult, she married >> > another >> > person with the consent of all families including her first 'husband''s >> > family. She gave birth to a girl-child. Both wife and husband are >> > labourers. >> > >> > >> > Suddenly the Caste Panchyat and powerful men term this marriage >> 'illegal'. >> > A >> > punishment was declared: Either pay fine to the 'Panchayat' or this >> money >> > will be recovered by a public auction of the woman and her daughter. >> > Meanwhile, her family won't be allowed to use hand-pump and other >> community >> > facilities. No one will buy milk from her. She or her husband or other >> > members of family will not get work under the National Rural Employment >> > Guarantee Scheme. >> > >> > Local MLA and MP (an Union Minister) have been contacted but there is no >> > response. The administration has not provided any relief to the family. >> > >> > A reporter from a TV channel asks her: Mehraj, will you fight against >> this >> > tyranny or accept the 'judgement'? >> > >> > Mehraj: I will fight till my last breath. >> > >> > Her daughter in her arms is smiling. Amazed me remembering a poem by >> Ashok >> > Vajpayee. >> > >> > कोई नहीं सुनता पुकार-- >> > >> > सुनती है कान खड़े कर >> > >> > सीढियों पर चौकन्नी खड़ी बिल्ली, >> > >> > जिसे ठीक से पता नहीं कि >> > >> > डर कर भाग जाना चाहिए या >> > >> > ठिठककर एकटक उस ओर देखना चाहिए। >> > >> > >> > कोई नहीं सुनता चीख़-- >> > >> > सुनती है खिड़की के बाहर >> > >> > हरियाये पेड़ पर अचानक आ गई नीली चिड़िया, >> > >> > जिसे पता नहीं कि यह चीख़ है >> > >> > या कि आवाज़ों के तुमुल में से एक और आवाज़। >> > >> > >> > कोई नहीं सुनता प्रार्थना-- >> > >> > सुनती है अपने पालने में लेटी दुधमुंही बच्ची, >> > >> > जो आदिम अंधेरे से निकलकर उजाले में आने पर >> > >> > इतनी भौंचक है >> > >> > कि उसके लिए अभी आवाज़ >> > >> > होने, न होने के बीच का सुनसान है। >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> > subscribe in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > Rajen. > > -- Rajen. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 19:44:18 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:44:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908140653w231ff75cyda0b88e641472430@mail.gmail.com> References: <722442.13451.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908131008o1038548ft57cdbd38ce7a1d13@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908132156s2cbc9b7fgfdba54d854b125b7@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908140653w231ff75cyda0b88e641472430@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Well Rajen ji Good points. But what is this rule of law? You people yourself contest and start asking for a Uniform Civil Code, thereby stating that the current laws are inadequate or incorrect to satisfy the current situation, and hence such a code is required. So also for POTA. And as for the implementation, most of the minority appeasement acts are not against the Constitution of India, whether it be the Sachar Committee Report or the demand for reconstruction of the Babri Masjid. Therefore, what exactly do you want? You are one of those who state that it's wrong for Manmohan to say that Muslims have the first right on the resources of the country. He didn't say that others don't have a right too. But you seem to think that statement does mean that. What do you want about those kind of statements, can you tell? And anyways, how does that statement correlate with functioning on the ground? The Haj subsidies are supposedly within the Constitutional directives and ideas. Do you support that, or do you oppose that? And why? Do you support the point that post-Godhra violence was wrong and unjustifiable, howsoever Godhra as a crime may be? You are good at misusing questions to avoid answers. My simple question is this: what should be the value system upon which the Indian law and Constitution must be based and what should be the Indian judiciary's values as well while giving their judgements: Hindutva? Secularism? Islam? Hinduism? Something else........ Which rule of law should prevail: Hindutva rule of Law/Indian Penal Code/Shariat/Something else? And where would Muslims be placed as a section of the society in any such rule of law which you are talking about? As for "brownie points", I have learnt that from you. So you are my guru in that, I wholeheartedly acknowledge. Congrats for that, guruji. I would never be able to keep up with you in this, I agree. Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 19:54:07 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:54:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] universal civil code In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908140700g61178c1cy850033c9afaabe5c@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560908130415k590a1246g1c5b3499bfbda0b4@mail.gmail.com> <496232.61646.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7271ec560908140700g61178c1cy850033c9afaabe5c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Rajen ji Reciting 'equality' like the Gayatri Mantra is not going to solve the issue. What is required is a proper public discussion of the values which these Panchayats are following. Anyways, for better understanding of the importance of public discussion, please read 'Development as Freedom' by Amartya Sen. Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 20:01:48 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 20:01:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908140657l754ee6e3u68bcb8cb848a1791@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00908130019m1090d9edkbc109fe97006049f@mail.gmail.com> <823583.97663.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908131013n5c15f1e2o693bca9c5d18636e@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908140657l754ee6e3u68bcb8cb848a1791@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Rajen jee. We are not debating to win. We are debating and discussing to understand issues which have a subjective feature to it. These are not objective things but things which have value systems attached to them, whether it be yours or mine. As for you, my question is same as that for Murali jee. When someone boycotts you, your importance is gone, for you can only continue by pleading to a sense of victimization. But when you or someone of same belief declares the same call, you don't have a word to say about it. Why? May I know that? From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Fri Aug 14 20:23:20 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:53:20 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Govt projects opportunity for NXP in India: Execs- 197 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908140753y57fa71ecq3cf41bc5e8123412@mail.gmail.com> Dear All It's Dhan Te Nan time for NxP!!! My earnest advise to all those who subscribe to this list and like to invest in the stock market too, look out for stocks of companies dealing with smart cards, contact-less cards, semiconductors, RFID, and those companies dealing with smart ID products which could be converted for interoperability purposes and invest. The GoI is going big on a spending spree. The impression which is being created is this- smart cards will help poor!!! We know that it could be not so but who cares!! ID Sector is up for grabs!! NxP BTW is not a listed stock anymore. It seems they don't want to share their booty with common investors. Smart thinking I'd say. Warm regards Taha Govt projects opportunity for NXP in India: Execs By Swati Prasad, ZDNet Asia Friday, August 14, 2009 02:44 PM INDIA--NXP Semiconductors said Thursday it expects huge demand in India for its identification products as a result of the country's e-government, transport and financial inclusion projects. Claus Hansen, NXP's Asia-Pacific senior director, sales and marketing said: "India is a bundle of latent opportunity." Headquartered in Europe, NXP creates semiconductors, systems and software designed to deliver better sensory experiences in televisions, set-top boxes, identification applications, mobile phones, cars and a wide range of electronic devices. Ashok Chandak, its senior director of global sales and marketing, said: "We expect 600 million unique ID cards, 50 million e-passports, 100 million health cards, 50 million transport and ticketing cards and 50 million banking cards likely to be issued over the next seven years." The NXP executives were speaking at the Identification Summit 2009 hosted by the company Thursday for select media. In India, NXP was the sole supplier of chipsets for the pilot of the Multipurpose National Identity Card Project (MNIC) in 2007, now integrated with the National Authority for Unique Identity (NAUID) under the government's Planning Commission. The company expects huge demand from the government sector, with the National Rural Employment Guarantee Act (NREGA) coming into force and the India's National e-Governance Plan (NeGP) progressing in full swing. NREGA seeks to enhance the livelihood of people in rural India by guaranteeing them 100 days of wage employment every financial year and within 5 kilometers (3 miles) of their residence. The NeGP seeks to make all government services accessible to the common man through common service delivery outlets. NXP offers four kinds of identification offerings--near field communication (NFC) and services, radio frequency identification (RFID), smartcard products and infrastructure components such as ICs and modules for terminals. Future is contactless Hansen said NFC is emerging as an important application for mobile phones. Handsets with NFC can be used for keyless entry into one's car, to purchase tickets at toll-roads and in mass rapid transport systems, and facilitate banking transactions. NFC is a short-range high-frequency wireless communication technology that enables data exchange between devices around 10 centimeters (4 inches) apart. Mobile phone manufacturers are developing NFC-enabled handsets. For instance, the Nokia 6212C 3G handset featuring NFC lets consumers conveniently share content, access services and information as well as conduct payments and ticketing with one tap of the device. Hansen said: "Identity cards that have a longer usage span need a contactless interface. Therefore, for e-governance projects like NUID, health cards, driving licenses and e-passports, contactless would be the natural choice." Contactless is the interface of choice for the 21st century. Governments and banks are moving towards it," he added. NXP's contactless e-government chip has been used in 62 of the 71 countries where the e-passport scheme has been implemented, according to him. Financial inclusion--the process of delivering affordable banking services to disadvantaged and low-income groups--also has wide scope in India, since banks cover only 39 percent of rural India. The government has set up a US$125 million financial inclusion technology fund that seeks to bank these rural pockets with the use of new financial inclusion technologies using smart cards, NFC and mobile phones. NXP has been involved in several pilot financial inclusion projects. Smartcards for railways NXP also announced its secure microcontroller-based chip technology MIFARE DESFire was selected by the Centre for Railway Information Systems (CRIS), an IT organization under India's Ministry of Railways. The technology will power contactless smart cards for automatic fare collection using automatic ticket vending machines (ATVMs) across various cities in India. Indian Railways is one of the largest and busiest rail transport networks in the world, carrying over 18 million passengers daily. "Globally, 75 percent of all electronic tickets in public transport use NXP MIFARE technology," Chandak said. CRIS developed an AVTM as part of an Unreserved Ticketing System (UTS). These ATVMs will be rolled out across five major cities in India--New Delhi, Secunderabad, Kolkata, Bhubaneswar and Pune. The project is expected to go live in September 2009. Swati Prasad is a freelance IT writer based in India. From indersalim at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 20:43:58 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 20:43:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A Just Peace in Kashmir? Reflections on In-Reply-To: References: <625900.47326.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <809FC697-1125-42C2-8BA2-A7E5E83E4EB5@sarai.net> Message-ID: <47e122a70908140813o18136422h75d80b5546b1a0d5@mail.gmail.com> Dear Shuddha, Dear Jnuaid so far so good. both of you have debated passionately about Kashmir. i am glad to read all of it. Shuddha has rightly pointed out : "My position on Kashmir has to do with the nature of the occupation, not with the identity, or the anxieties regarding identity, of either those who are suffering from the occupation, or those who have been displaced by the logic of the occupation" and very few on the list will post their disagreement on it, unless the person is a old nationlist nothing wrong even with that, as long as it peacefully done. i quote Shuddha further. "Had I, and several others like me, not persisted in making our stand clear, over several years, in the face of determined (and I have to say, in the main, cynical) opposition from within the 'left-liberal- secualr-soft nationalist' constituency in India, I doubt if we would have the (not insignificant) space we do have to debate the entire matter of Kashmir in Indian public fora today" This is really true. and it is here, i am also inclined to write about those 'cynical' voices in kashmir who destest any revival or mention of cultural activism in kashmir. And i think we need to applaud those who contiuned to engage themselves with differnet cultural expressioins in the valley. The threat from those who consider it as conspiracy against the freedom movement is real. I really endorese the view that expressions on art and culture should be left alone and allowed to reflect the situaition or a reality or a history of a place without any pressure or threat. So, on the ground there are two schools in kashmir. One, which is mainly dominated by journalists/intellectuals and other graduates who think that art and culture can wait till KASHMIR ISSUE is resolved. and the second school is of the opinion that art, music and culutre should be left alone. for example, i met an artist in Srinagar recently, who strongly debated with his friends on the issue. He agreed with me that the domain of art should be left alone, to express, to deal with the issue(s), and there is no questiion of accepting the heirarchary of the first shcool. Strangly, the first shcool, which is indiffernt to ( both old and new ) cultural practices, are overwhelmingly dominating our social set up, both inside the kashmir and outside. Culure was always on the backfoot, but yes, post 1990 scenario in kashmir has given ample ammunation to the indifferent-culture front in kashmir. The presence of Indian security forces in each and very mohalla in kashmir has really aborted any attempts to restore cultural life in kashmir. It is here, Dr. Shapiro's term ' culural annhilation' should be understood. The uprising in 1990 along with the unprecedented violence by hidden players in kashmir ushered in an era where Indian Security Foreces can be squrely blamed for this Cultural Annhilation in kashmir. The shoool which is already indifferent to anything other than 'freedom' issue in kashmir was alway grinning about the little cultural face in kashmir. Then the reasona of that ' cultural annhilation' were of course different. For example, wine shops and cinema halls were attacked during Sheikh Abdullah's time. The Jammati islami face of KASHmiri politics was always encouraging the first school, and they must be happy that they have a deep net working of sorts at their command. The loss of kashmiri sufi msic and poetry in that case is not regretted by this first school, but the second school, pro- culture, who happen to favour ' independance ' of kashmir at the same time want to understand kashmiryat on their own terms. The first school's priority is a merger of kahmir with pakistan, which i feel, are intellecutally in minority. It is the second school, pro-cutlure which is open to debates of 'multiculturalism based on ethics' in a new free kashmir as against the first shcool. the question is then what is culture. Perhaps, it is not simply talking about culture as a token presence in our daily life. But a reinvigorated face of culture does mean some intense music, poetry, theratre and writing workshops on all subjects, No, it must be something more than what we already know. Yes, anything, of course, but without any pressures or guidelines. The second school of thought needs encouragement and support. The question therefore arises, if there is some support coming from indian institutiions to initiate some exercises with a long term benefit in sight. what then? I know there, are some Left leaning art organizations in India who refuse funding by Ford or something which has american name attached to it. I dont see much merit in the aversion to the source of of funding. Again, it is open for debate... REcently there was workshop conducted by INTACH for a workshop on theatre, writing, photography, and painting in downtown srinagar. I was there, as a visitor, and i found the participants extremely involved and happy to be part of that exercise. I guess, such exposures on culture and other modern ways of understanding it only help the individuals to understand their respective present/conflicts in a better way, than living in isolation. with love is On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Dear Junaid, > > Once again, thank you for your considered and thoughtful reply, and > for this opportunity to develop my thinking further. I am in > agreement with most of what you say. Most importantly, with your last > point, about the necessity to remain vigilant about the possibility, > while commenting on the situation in Kashmir, of stripping the > resistance of the context it has to function in, and over- > contextualizing the actions of the occupiers. However, I do believe > that an absence of 'critical' solidarity, de-contextualizes this > resistance, (and for that matter, any resistance) encircling it with > a halo it does not need as much as a 'holier than thou' attitude born > of a complete insensitivity to the actual conditions on the ground. > > Of course it is completely counter-productive to expect people to > articulate their positions on gay rights, ecology or the gender > question while soldiers are trampling on their homes, raping their > sisters, mothers, lovers and daughters, killing their sons, brothers > and friends and holding them at gun-point. But, let us not generalize > too much in the other direction either. We all know that there is a > certain degree of articulation and exchange possible, even in these > times, within Kashmiri civil society. Not a great deal, but not > negligible either. There are newspapers, blogs, online platforms such > as this one, even conversations in peoples homes and coffee shops. I > am concerned about the quality and volume of that exchange, and the > fact that it is intimidated, not just by the occupation, but also, by > an 'internal occupation' - an 'occupation of the intellectual and > imaginative space of the resistance' that is exercised by some > amongst the self proclaimed leadership of the same resistance. > > While, it is unrealistic, and indeed unfair, for me, or for anyone to > demand that the Kashmiri who is at gunpoint declaim nuanced > statements that runs the gamut from global warming to gay rights, it > is equally patronising to persist in saying that we continue to > endorse the reticence of those who are indeed at liberty to speak, > however softly, and who yet refrain from doing so, either because > they do not think these issues are important, or worthy of their > support ( in which case they must be opposed, but at least I > understand that their position on these matters is sincere and > honest) or, because though they may 'privately' sympathize, they wish > to remain 'publicly' silent, because they do not want to annoy the > 'leadership' of the resistance, and go against the supposed > 'sentiments' of the majority of the population (which, under > conditions of occupation, they have no way of ascertaining one way or > another). In fact, I think that this is one of the most violent and > brutal legacies that the occupation has left in Kashmir, a narrowing > of the space of the 'sayable',on all sides, on many things. And if > the long term effects of the occupation need to be confronted, then > one of the things that I believe is urgent, is an 'expansion' of the > sayable, to include statements that might even appear heretical and > blasphemous today. > > I have always believed that it is the responsibility of intellectuals > to articulate positions that might make them unpopular (if they hold > such positions to be true) especially amongst their own > constituencies and publics,even while expressing their solidarity > with the situation of the same publics. Until some years ago, > whenever someone like me would raise the question of the indian > state's role in Kashmir, the standard response amongst Indian leftist- > liberal intellectuals was an embarassed plea for silence, because, > even if some of them 'agreed' with me and others like me in private, > 'an anti-national' stand on Kashmir would, in their view, only be > 'unpopular' and would further 'alienate' 'us' from the 'masses'. I > even recall being told, 'People are starving in India, and you > persist with the luxury of talking about freedom in Kashmir.' These, > things, I was told, could wait, until after the urgent tasks of > tackling the situation in India was completed. > > Had I, and several others like me, not persisted in making our stand > clear, over several years, in the face of determined (and I have to > say, in the main, cynical) opposition from within the 'left-liberal- > secualr-soft nationalist' constituency in India, I doubt if we would > have the (not insignificant) space we do have to debate the entire > matter of Kashmir in Indian public fora today. Today, several amongst > the same, formerly 'reticent' intellectuals have found it possible to > shed their 'reticence' on Kashmir, and this is a good thing. But it > would have been a much longer time coming, had we 'waited' for the > 'urgencies' that always besiege us in india to cool down. And, I > think that continuity of deliberate indifference on the part of large > sections of the Indian intelligentsia, would have then made the > situation in Kashmir much worse than it is today. We are in a > situation today, where the silence that greeted the brutal violence > by the Indian state in Kashmir in 1989 and the early nineties, can no > longer be repeated, not with the same measure of success.  (the > violence may be repeated, but the silence wont be so easy to produce) > This was most evident to me during the 'Anti-Amarnath Yatra Board > Linked Land Grab' movement, when many more Indian intellectuals began > saying what had been hitherto considered 'unsayable'. > > Let me now take this opportunity to clarify a few things. > > I for one, do not hold out preconditions for standing in solidarity > with my thoughts and words with a movement against a violent > occupation. A violent occupation, or any situation founded on > oppression, in my view needs to be opposed, even if many of the > people being oppressed are not necessarily those one would normally > be in agreement with. My opposition to the occupation, and the > question of my agreement, or disagreement, with the world view of > those being oppressed by the occupation, or the leadership of the > resistance to the occupation, are two distinct things, and I do not > see any reason to confuse them. I know for a fact that there are many > people in Kashmir who share my point of view on most things, and that > there are many who do not. And I am well aware of the fact that for > instance, in many respects, Kashmiri society is far more egalitarian > in terms of the relationship between the sexes for instance, than > most parts of north india. That is why, i am not over anxious about > the possible dominance of a misogynist Islamist fundamentalism in > Kashmir. I think that Islamists will have a far harder time in > Kashmir than the media would have us believe. But let us suppose that > this is not the case. That in fact, upon 'Azadi', they will have a > walkover. Would I then regret my choice to support the movement > against the occupation? This response, that I am writing now, is an > attempt at answering that question. > > Let me put it this way, the immense concentration of military might > that the Indian state maintains in Kashmir is evil, in and of itself. > An opposition to it does not need justification with reference to my > understanding of the actual or supposed innocence, or political > correctness, of those who bear the brunt of the occupation, or, lead > the resistance to it, or will overcome it. > > So, I am never going to ask, or expect people (however many or few > they may be) who are homophobic or patriarchal  in Kashmir to change > their views, say on gay rights, or the place of women, or non- > believers in society, which may be diametrically opposed to mine, as > a necessary condition for my standing by them in their fight against > the violence of the occupation. At the same time, I will refuse to > mask my disagreement on key issues with those i stand by, and to keep > insisting that the vision of 'azadi' that they hold out, in my view, > is deeply flawed. Not to do so, is first of all disrespectful, to > them, to me, to to the differences between them and me, to those in > Kashmir, such as you, who are not like them, and to the > responsibility of solidarity. If, they, embarassed by my libertarian > intransigence, were to choose to shun me, and be inhospitable to the > expressions of my solidarity, then, that would be their problem, not > mine. I would still speak in the favour of their liberty. Not because > I like them, but because I love liberty. > > Let me make it very clear, my fight is against the military > occupation of Kashmir by the Indian state. I am not in agreement, > either with Kashmiri secular nationalism, or with the various strands > of Islamism, or pan-Islamism that striate the Kashmiri political > landscape about their vision of the future of Kashmir. I also do not > buy the argument that the vision can be 'improved' upon later. > Neither do I feel embarassed in any way about my disagreement. Nor > have I ever chosen to conceal it. > > But that does not mean that I agree with the way in which the > occupation deprives secular nationalists in Kashmir, or Islamists, > for that matter, and most of all -  the vast majority of ordinary > people, of their liberty. Similarly, while I abhor the politics of > Panun Kashmir, I know that the majority of Kashmiri pandits have been > let down historically, both by the indian state, which manipulated > them and cultivated a peculiarly intense paranoia within the Kashmiri > pandit community to its own ends, and by those segments within the > Kashmiri muslim community, which benefited from their departure. > However, I refuse to privilege the suffering of either Kashmiri > muslims or of Kashmiri pandits as the sole determinants of my > position on Kashmir. My position on Kashmir has to do with the nature > of the occupation, not with the identity, or the anxieties regarding > identity, of either those who are suffering from the occupation, or > those who have been displaced by the logic of the occupation. I see > both as victims of the situation, and nothing irritates me more than > a politics based on an exhibition of competitive victimhood. > > Most of all, I do not believe that the indian state has any business > being in Kashmir if the majority of the population of the valley do > not want it there. If it is proved otherwise in a free and fair > plebiscite, it would be a completely different matter, then, the > 'separatists', in my view, would have no business imposing their > agenda on an unwilling population, were it to want to remain within > India, and then, I would oppose that, (the separatists refusal to > take into account what I am currently signposting as a possible, > 'hypothetical' endoesement of the Indian union by the democratic > majority of the Kashmiri people) just as vigorously, as I currently > oppose the hegemony of the Indian state, even though, I have no > sympathy at all with Indian nationalism. > > For me, that is a simple question of respect for a democratic > principle. And to accept a democratic principle does not necessarily > mean that one has to be in agreement with the sentiments that are > democratically expressed. To return fleetingly to another > conversation we have been having, had I been convinced, by the > evidence clearly available to the world at large, that the > Ahmadinejad regime did in fact enjoy the trust and confidence of the > majority of the Iranian people, I would have been saddened, but I > would have endorsed the acceptance of a deeply unfortunate verdict, > with a determined hope that it will be different the next time > around. I would not have been outraged in the way that I am today as > a result of knowing that the election in Iran was stolen and a > colossal exercise in fraud. I say this to point out that even if I > were in disagreement with the future destiny that the people of > Kashmir were to choose for themselves, I would still support their > right to choose it, were they able to do so by free and fair means, > un-encumbered by a military occupation. > > Let us assume a worst case scenario, only for the sake of the > argument (I do not believe this to be true, though, I am putting this > forward only to clarify my position). > > It may be that in the not so distant future the majority of the > Kashmiri population do indeed agree to give themselves the worst, > most reactionary, fundamentalist constitution or charter, that strips > all minorities, women and other vulnerable sections of Kashmiri > society no space or rights whatsoever. Will this mean that my > position on the violence of the occupation will change. That I will > suddenly see the occupation as some kind of 'lesser evil'. No, it > will not. I will continue to argue against holding people in thrall > against their will, even if their will is abhorrent to me. I will > treat both as forces to be confronted, and if need be, militantly. > The option of selecting one thing over another when both ought to be > anathema is precisely the kind of false 'pragmatism' that i feel > traps people into positions that they come to deeply regret later. > > There are many people on this list whose views I totally detest, and > argue vociferously against. Most of them are sincere Indian patriots, > radicalized Hindus, many of them are Kashmiri pandits, who percieve > themselves to be persecuted by what they call a 'pseudo- > secular' ('sickular') establishment. I neither agree with, nor > sympathize with this self-aggrandizing perception of victimhood that > they exhibit. I also know that their fantasy includes the act of > identifying people like me as being part of that 'establishment' > which they perceive as 'oppressive', even if erroneously. > > Yet, I have always personally maintained (often to the frustration of > close friends and allies) that the nature of the space we have > created on this list must ensure that they too should be at liberty > to say what they feel, provided they do not abuse that liberty by > spreading slander against individuals or threatening individuals with > violence. That the only way to confront them is not by banning them, > but by taking them head on, politically, which I now see this list > doing, more or less organically. > > I know for a fact that they have their exact and almost identical > mirrors within Kashmiri today, including within the resistance, > though their number or influence is nowhere near what the mainstream > media makes it out to be with its Islamophobic hysteria. And I detest > them too, the greybeards lost in their dreams of a fantasy caliphate, > which can only mean a the replacement of an occupation with a > 'homegrown' prison, with an equal intensity. > > But even if one of them were to be taken into custody under AFSPA, or > tortured, or executed in an extra judicial encounter, I still think > it would be the responsibility of any decent human being to stand by > them and their families against an evil and draconian set of laws, > regardless of what one felt about the politics of the victims. I > would not wait, for the prisoner to change his mind, about how he > sees people who are not of his faith, before holding out the > solidarity that I believe is their right to expect and my > responsibility to offer. > > I completely disagree with the Catholic Church's view on most things, > be it papal infallibility, reproductive rights, contraception, womens > rights to safe and legal abortion, or homosexuality, and would in > most circumstances be totally against the mainstream of Catholic > doctrine. And yet, in a situation where catholics, or other > christians are persecuted as a minority, as they were in Orissa, I > see no problem at all in standing in solidarity with them. I do not, > in those instances, expect them to clean up the church's stated > position on homosexuality to align with mine as a precondition for > the expression of my solidarity with them. > > At the same time, I will always also speak in criticism of the > catholic church's doctrine, and speak, wherever necesary and > possible, in defence of dissident catholics, lapsed catholics and non- > catholic, and non-believing critics of the church's reactionary > positions. > > This is the only 'pragmatic' approach that i can adopt to much (not > all) of the resistance including in Kashmir (and anywhere else where > conditions similar to those in Kashmir operate,including in much of > India's north east, Jharkhand and Chattisgarh, Palestine, Tibet, > Iranian, Iraqui and Turkish occupied Kurdistan, Balochistan, the > Uighur areas in China, Chechnya and eslewhere), unconditional support > for their right to liberty from an oppressive occupation or from the > violence of state initiated armed assauts, and to seek self- > determination or a defeat of the armed might of the state, combined > with uncompromising and frank opposition to what I consider to be > their deeply flawed politics and their narrow, restricted vision of a > future, be it for Kashmir or anywhere else. I know of no other way of > relating - not as colonizer to colonized -  but as an equal, to those > who bear the brunt of a humiliation meted out to them in my name, and > in the name, essentially, of every Indian citizen, and of every > citizen of every occupying power - and as a person who tries to > fashion a consistently  ethical politics. > > I hope that I have made myself abundantly clear. > > best, > > Shuddha > > > > On 09-Aug-09, at 11:03 PM, Junaid wrote: > >> I, however, believe that many of us who live outside Kashmir, or >> are relatively freer, need to have a pragmatic approach toward the >> resistance. Most of us may be well-intentioned but when it comes to >> lending actual solidarity to the Kashmiris we begin to ask them to >> first achieve the Ideal before any support could be extended. We >> trenchantly criticise a Kashmiri protestor for not simultaneously >> raising the issues we have been talking about while he is battling >> soldiers attacking his home.  At many times, it reduces to asking >> Kashmiris to resist within a prescribed norm of decency. We feel no >> actual sympathy for the bearded protestor for perhaps he represents >> to us everything we abhor. >> >> And then there are those of us, who have extremely stringent >> standards of what constitutes a legitimate, justified resistance-- >> where abberations in the resistance are turned into its dominant >> feature, while the structurally violent nature of the occupation >> becomes aberations that can be improved. (For Kashmir, it means >> making its resistance absolutely contextless, while Indian actions >> get overcontextualised). > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From murali.chalam at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 22:37:55 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:37:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: References: <722442.13451.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908131008o1038548ft57cdbd38ce7a1d13@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908132156s2cbc9b7fgfdba54d854b125b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908141007o158d10eerb19b5b0ef7364c42@mail.gmail.com> Let all the muslims in a single voice say who they represent. Regards, V Murali On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 6:25 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > By the way, I still find one thing peculiar. Murali ji, Rajen ji, and others > have repeatedly said on this forum the kind of things Islamic rulers have > done in the past to temples, the kind of minority appeasement being done and > so on. > > They don't suggest a solution for it, neither do they speak about what to be > done with these Muslims (First of all they can start by indicating whether > they feel these Muslims are Indian or Pakistani or something else). Could > they kindly indicate that? > > Or they have nothing to do except shouting about the past? > > > From murali.chalam at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 22:34:19 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:34:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Absence of Husain at Art Summit In-Reply-To: <47e122a70908140631w10cdf369v3328f52b72c9060@mail.gmail.com> References: <82285.22042.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <47e122a70908140631w10cdf369v3328f52b72c9060@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908141004g74fba8aeu7a033cb623075d1f@mail.gmail.com> Well who is the next hindu godess to be depicted nude by M F Hussain. Regards, V Murali On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Inder Salim wrote: > Dear all > > please click to see > > http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_pllHvmNB5GI/Sn7kVWsGT2I/AAAAAAAAAPE/lF_BbjckUgg/s1600-h/sraswati+with+text1.jpg > > image in solidarity with MF Hussain > > with love > inder salim > > > On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 2:36 PM, ashok kumari wrote: >> >> >> we are submitting a memo to the home minister on Husain not being included >> in the Art Summit. Please send your endorsement as soon as possible. >> >> Minister of Home Affairs >> Government of India >> North Block >> New Delhi >> >> Dear Shri Chidambaram, >> >> We - artists, gallerists and critics, are approaching you on behalf of the >> artists community on the long standing issue of attempts by Hindu right-wing >> groups to effectively impose a ban on exhibiting any work by our greatest >> living artist, 94 year old MF Husain, through threats of assault and >> violence. These groups, including the BJP, Bajrang Dal, Sri Ram Sena, the >> VHP, and the Shiv Sena have led a concerted communal campaign against Husain >> accusing him of blasphemy since 1996. This campaign has taken a violent form >> on many occasions and has also led to cases being filed against the artist >> in courts across India, and has led to Husain's self-imposed exile. >> >> In a landmark judgement dismissing three such cases in the Delhi High Court >> in 2007, Justice Sanjay Kishen Kaul defended the right of freedom of >> expression under the Constitution of India. The Union Ministry of Culture, >> during the previous Art Summit held in 2008 had categorically stated “Shri >> M. F. Husain is one of the most prominent artist of the country and the >> absence of his works at the India Art Summit will not reflect the true art >> scenario of India.” >> >> We are very disturbed by reports that the upcoming International India Art >> Summit taking place at Pragati Maidan from August 19-24th has asked >> participating galleries for the second year running to not display the work >> of Husain citing fear of attacks. We enclose a report from the Telegraph >> which quotes them as saying that the Home Ministry has offered no assurance >> of security. >> >> We find it shocking that the work of the most famous artist cannot be shown >> in the country of his birth, even though he is not a criminal, nor is his >> work proscribed or banned. The Art Summit is being attended by luminaries >> from around the world, and it is a sad state of affairs that we, who >> justifiably pride ourselves as a great democracy, cannot resist threats from >> these groups who we see as no less than other terrorists who threaten our >> daily lives. >> >> We request a meeting with you to apprise you of the art community's anguish >> and concern. >> >> Yours Sincerely, >> >> Vivan Sundaram, Ram Rahman, Parthiv Shah, Shireen Gandhi, Dadiba Pundole, >> Geetha Mehra, Gayatri Sinha, Arun Vadhera, Renu Modi, Ashish Anand, Devika >> Daulet Singh, Geeta Kapur, Peter Nagy >> >> ________________________________ >> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! >> Buzz. > > > > -- > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From murali.chalam at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 22:40:26 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:40:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: References: <722442.13451.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908131008o1038548ft57cdbd38ce7a1d13@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908132156s2cbc9b7fgfdba54d854b125b7@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908140653w231ff75cyda0b88e641472430@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908141010y580f2ddbgcb37cc60cbbb5921@mail.gmail.com> Once the fall back on seperate laws is abandoned everything will fall in place. It is only the acceptance that is missing. Regards, V Murali On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Well Rajen ji > > Good points. But what is this rule of law? You people yourself contest and > start asking for a Uniform Civil Code, thereby stating that the current laws > are inadequate or incorrect to satisfy the current situation, and hence such > a code is required. So also for POTA. > > And as for the implementation, most of the minority appeasement acts are not > against the Constitution of India, whether it be the Sachar Committee Report > or the demand for reconstruction of the Babri Masjid. Therefore, what > exactly do you want? > > You are one of those who state that it's wrong for Manmohan to say that > Muslims have the first right on the resources of the country. He didn't say > that others don't have a right too. But you seem to think that statement > does mean that. What do you want about those kind of statements, can you > tell? And anyways, how does that statement correlate with functioning on the > ground? > > The Haj subsidies are supposedly within the Constitutional directives and > ideas. Do you support that, or do you oppose that? And why? > > Do you support the point that post-Godhra violence was wrong and > unjustifiable, howsoever Godhra as a crime may be? > > You are good at misusing questions to avoid answers. My simple question is > this: what should be the value system upon which the Indian law and > Constitution must be based and what should be the Indian judiciary's values > as well while giving their judgements: Hindutva? Secularism? Islam? > Hinduism? Something else........ > > Which rule of law should prevail: Hindutva rule of Law/Indian Penal > Code/Shariat/Something else? And where would Muslims be placed as a section > of the society in any such rule of law which you are talking about? > > As for "brownie points", I have learnt that from you. So you are my guru in > that, I wholeheartedly acknowledge. Congrats for that, guruji. I would never > be able to keep up with you in this, I agree. > > Regards > > Rakesh > From murali.chalam at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 22:48:22 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:48:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: References: <722442.13451.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908131008o1038548ft57cdbd38ce7a1d13@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908132156s2cbc9b7fgfdba54d854b125b7@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908140653w231ff75cyda0b88e641472430@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908141018v5e85acacua27cadbc328da538@mail.gmail.com> "You are one of those who state that it's wrong for Manmohan to say that > Muslims have the first right on the resources of the country. He didn't say > that others don't have a right too" Oh yes the left overs is it.... " The Haj subsidies are supposedly within the Constitutional" please enlighten me on this please. "Post-Godhra violence was wrong and unjustifiable, howsoever Godhra as a crime may be?" Why the post Godhra Violence is an affirmative statement, while the Godhra incident is luke warm. The law should be the law of the land and no religious bias should come in. And please dont call it for heaven sake secularism. Muslims or for that matter anybody will be on an equal footing provided that there is no classification. Regards, V Murali On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Well Rajen ji > > Good points. But what is this rule of law? You people yourself contest and > start asking for a Uniform Civil Code, thereby stating that the current laws > are inadequate or incorrect to satisfy the current situation, and hence such > a code is required. So also for POTA. > > And as for the implementation, most of the minority appeasement acts are not > against the Constitution of India, whether it be the Sachar Committee Report > or the demand for reconstruction of the Babri Masjid. Therefore, what > exactly do you want? > > You are one of those who state that it's wrong for Manmohan to say that > Muslims have the first right on the resources of the country. He didn't say > that others don't have a right too. But you seem to think that statement > does mean that. What do you want about those kind of statements, can you > tell? And anyways, how does that statement correlate with functioning on the > ground? > > The Haj subsidies are supposedly within the Constitutional directives and > ideas. Do you support that, or do you oppose that? And why? > > Do you support the point that post-Godhra violence was wrong and > unjustifiable, howsoever Godhra as a crime may be? > > You are good at misusing questions to avoid answers. My simple question is > this: what should be the value system upon which the Indian law and > Constitution must be based and what should be the Indian judiciary's values > as well while giving their judgements: Hindutva? Secularism? Islam? > Hinduism? Something else........ > > Which rule of law should prevail: Hindutva rule of Law/Indian Penal > Code/Shariat/Something else? And where would Muslims be placed as a section > of the society in any such rule of law which you are talking about? > > As for "brownie points", I have learnt that from you. So you are my guru in > that, I wholeheartedly acknowledge. Congrats for that, guruji. I would never > be able to keep up with you in this, I agree. > > Regards > > Rakesh > From murali.chalam at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 22:55:44 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:55:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn In-Reply-To: References: <341380d00908130019m1090d9edkbc109fe97006049f@mail.gmail.com> <823583.97663.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908131013n5c15f1e2o693bca9c5d18636e@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908140657l754ee6e3u68bcb8cb848a1791@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908141025u29265be1s772407fa6dac53ac@mail.gmail.com> Value systems differ. I would live with one wife for life!!!! Boycotts again are subjective. When somebody boycotts, it is not always that it is justified. Importance is the least of the priorities and one has to stand by ones thoughts and die for it, offcourse without causing harm to others. Regards, V Murali On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 8:01 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Rajen jee. We are not debating to win. We are debating and discussing to > understand issues which have a subjective feature to it. These are not > objective things but things which have value systems attached to them, > whether it be yours or mine. > > As for you, my question is same as that for Murali jee. When someone > boycotts you, your importance is gone, for you can only continue by pleading > to a sense of victimization. But when you or someone of same belief declares > the same call, you don't have a word to say about it. Why? May I know that? > > > From indersalim at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 22:58:38 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:58:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Absence of Husain at Art Summit In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908141004g74fba8aeu7a033cb623075d1f@mail.gmail.com> References: <82285.22042.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <47e122a70908140631w10cdf369v3328f52b72c9060@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908141004g74fba8aeu7a033cb623075d1f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70908141028p14e316b6nccfaf0e0867805cc@mail.gmail.com> well, we are told to believe ( in Hinduism as well ) that God is one, has no gender, colour texuture or name, so no question depiting GOD with or without garments and if God exists in multiples, in all the faces of all the human beings, animals, plants, mountains seas, air and sunlight, then the question of depicting this way or that does alter very little since the surface is vast and endless. Art is fun, and strangely liberates those who look into eye of it constatnly. that is another matter, which needs a cool and patient listening.......... But, right now let us re-read what Justice Sanjay Kishan. Kaul said is his land mark2007 judgement in support of freedom of expresion, thus exonarating Artist MF Hussain from the so called indecent deptiction of Hindu Goddess, and simultaneously questioined the Right Wing Hindu intolarant and ingnorant face of our polity, who have nothing but an axe to grind. with love is On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Murali V wrote: > Well who is the next hindu godess to be depicted nude by M F Hussain. > > Regards, > V Murali > > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Inder Salim wrote: >> Dear all >> >> please click to see >> >> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_pllHvmNB5GI/Sn7kVWsGT2I/AAAAAAAAAPE/lF_BbjckUgg/s1600-h/sraswati+with+text1.jpg >> >> image in solidarity with MF Hussain >> >> with love >> inder salim >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 2:36 PM, ashok kumari wrote: >>> >>> >>> we are submitting a memo to the home minister on Husain not being included >>> in the Art Summit. Please send your endorsement as soon as possible. >>> >>> Minister of Home Affairs >>> Government of India >>> North Block >>> New Delhi >>> >>> Dear Shri Chidambaram, >>> >>> We - artists, gallerists and critics, are approaching you on behalf of the >>> artists community on the long standing issue of attempts by Hindu right-wing >>> groups to effectively impose a ban on exhibiting any work by our greatest >>> living artist, 94 year old MF Husain, through threats of assault and >>> violence. These groups, including the BJP, Bajrang Dal, Sri Ram Sena, the >>> VHP, and the Shiv Sena have led a concerted communal campaign against Husain >>> accusing him of blasphemy since 1996. This campaign has taken a violent form >>> on many occasions and has also led to cases being filed against the artist >>> in courts across India, and has led to Husain's self-imposed exile. >>> >>> In a landmark judgement dismissing three such cases in the Delhi High Court >>> in 2007, Justice Sanjay Kishen Kaul defended the right of freedom of >>> expression under the Constitution of India. The Union Ministry of Culture, >>> during the previous Art Summit held in 2008 had categorically stated “Shri >>> M. F. Husain is one of the most prominent artist of the country and the >>> absence of his works at the India Art Summit will not reflect the true art >>> scenario of India.” >>> >>> We are very disturbed by reports that the upcoming International India Art >>> Summit taking place at Pragati Maidan from August 19-24th has asked >>> participating galleries for the second year running to not display the work >>> of Husain citing fear of attacks. We enclose a report from the Telegraph >>> which quotes them as saying that the Home Ministry has offered no assurance >>> of security. >>> >>> We find it shocking that the work of the most famous artist cannot be shown >>> in the country of his birth, even though he is not a criminal, nor is his >>> work proscribed or banned. The Art Summit is being attended by luminaries >>> from around the world, and it is a sad state of affairs that we, who >>> justifiably pride ourselves as a great democracy, cannot resist threats from >>> these groups who we see as no less than other terrorists who threaten our >>> daily lives. >>> >>> We request a meeting with you to apprise you of the art community's anguish >>> and concern. >>> >>> Yours Sincerely, >>> >>> Vivan Sundaram, Ram Rahman, Parthiv Shah, Shireen Gandhi, Dadiba Pundole, >>> Geetha Mehra, Gayatri Sinha, Arun Vadhera, Renu Modi, Ashish Anand, Devika >>> Daulet Singh, Geeta Kapur, Peter Nagy >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! >>> Buzz. >> >> >> >> -- >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From murali.chalam at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 23:04:15 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:04:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Absence of Husain at Art Summit In-Reply-To: <47e122a70908141028p14e316b6nccfaf0e0867805cc@mail.gmail.com> References: <82285.22042.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <47e122a70908140631w10cdf369v3328f52b72c9060@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908141004g74fba8aeu7a033cb623075d1f@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70908141028p14e316b6nccfaf0e0867805cc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908141034g49e11d5gac28a7867770dbac@mail.gmail.com> Fine. I hope you would recall the Danish cartoon and its aftermath. Then why doesnt M F Hussain represent similar artistic thoughts to his faith. Regards, V Murali On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 10:58 PM, Inder Salim wrote: > well, we are told to believe ( in Hinduism as well ) that God is one, > has no gender, colour  texuture or name, so no question depiting GOD > with or without garments > > and if  God exists in multiples, in all the faces of all the human > beings, animals, plants, mountains seas, air and sunlight, then the > question of depicting this way or that does alter very little since > the surface is vast and endless. > > Art is fun, and strangely liberates those who look into eye of it > constatnly. that is another matter, which needs a cool and patient > listening.......... But, right now > > let us re-read what  Justice  Sanjay Kishan. Kaul said is his land > mark2007 judgement in support of freedom of expresion,  thus > exonarating  Artist MF Hussain from the so called indecent deptiction > of Hindu Goddess,  and simultaneously questioined the Right Wing Hindu > intolarant and ingnorant face of our polity, who have nothing but an > axe to grind. > > with love > is > > > > > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Murali V wrote: >> Well who is the next hindu godess to be depicted nude by M F Hussain. >> >> Regards, >> V Murali >> >> On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Inder Salim wrote: >>> Dear all >>> >>> please click to see >>> >>> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_pllHvmNB5GI/Sn7kVWsGT2I/AAAAAAAAAPE/lF_BbjckUgg/s1600-h/sraswati+with+text1.jpg >>> >>> image in solidarity with MF Hussain >>> >>> with love >>> inder salim >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 2:36 PM, ashok kumari wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> we are submitting a memo to the home minister on Husain not being included >>>> in the Art Summit. Please send your endorsement as soon as possible. >>>> >>>> Minister of Home Affairs >>>> Government of India >>>> North Block >>>> New Delhi >>>> >>>> Dear Shri Chidambaram, >>>> >>>> We - artists, gallerists and critics, are approaching you on behalf of the >>>> artists community on the long standing issue of attempts by Hindu right-wing >>>> groups to effectively impose a ban on exhibiting any work by our greatest >>>> living artist, 94 year old MF Husain, through threats of assault and >>>> violence. These groups, including the BJP, Bajrang Dal, Sri Ram Sena, the >>>> VHP, and the Shiv Sena have led a concerted communal campaign against Husain >>>> accusing him of blasphemy since 1996. This campaign has taken a violent form >>>> on many occasions and has also led to cases being filed against the artist >>>> in courts across India, and has led to Husain's self-imposed exile. >>>> >>>> In a landmark judgement dismissing three such cases in the Delhi High Court >>>> in 2007, Justice Sanjay Kishen Kaul defended the right of freedom of >>>> expression under the Constitution of India. The Union Ministry of Culture, >>>> during the previous Art Summit held in 2008 had categorically stated “Shri >>>> M. F. Husain is one of the most prominent artist of the country and the >>>> absence of his works at the India Art Summit will not reflect the true art >>>> scenario of India.” >>>> >>>> We are very disturbed by reports that the upcoming International India Art >>>> Summit taking place at Pragati Maidan from August 19-24th has asked >>>> participating galleries for the second year running to not display the work >>>> of Husain citing fear of attacks. We enclose a report from the Telegraph >>>> which quotes them as saying that the Home Ministry has offered no assurance >>>> of security. >>>> >>>> We find it shocking that the work of the most famous artist cannot be shown >>>> in the country of his birth, even though he is not a criminal, nor is his >>>> work proscribed or banned. The Art Summit is being attended by luminaries >>>> from around the world, and it is a sad state of affairs that we, who >>>> justifiably pride ourselves as a great democracy, cannot resist threats from >>>> these groups who we see as no less than other terrorists who threaten our >>>> daily lives. >>>> >>>> We request a meeting with you to apprise you of the art community's anguish >>>> and concern. >>>> >>>> Yours Sincerely, >>>> >>>> Vivan Sundaram, Ram Rahman, Parthiv Shah, Shireen Gandhi, Dadiba Pundole, >>>> Geetha Mehra, Gayatri Sinha, Arun Vadhera, Renu Modi, Ashish Anand, Devika >>>> Daulet Singh, Geeta Kapur, Peter Nagy >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! >>>> Buzz. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From indersalim at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 23:11:45 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:11:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Absence of Husain at Art Summit In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908141034g49e11d5gac28a7867770dbac@mail.gmail.com> References: <82285.22042.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <47e122a70908140631w10cdf369v3328f52b72c9060@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908141004g74fba8aeu7a033cb623075d1f@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70908141028p14e316b6nccfaf0e0867805cc@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908141034g49e11d5gac28a7867770dbac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70908141041w4885a14cpb2f71c1a96341244@mail.gmail.com> Dear Murali ji fine, if you want to a Hindu face of Muslim Fundamentalism, fine, i wont touch you, as both are more dangerous than swine flue to Freedom of Expression. about suggesting what Artists should do or what they should not. what do you think if they listen to each and every body about their inner drives to choose their subject matters. will there be art and poetry. imagine, Ghalib composing his verses after listening to a Maulana ji at the mosque let us laugh, and let the artistic freedom thrive in a society which is already reeling under threat from various other factors. with love is On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 11:04 PM, Murali V wrote: > Fine. I hope you would recall the Danish cartoon  and its aftermath. > Then why doesnt M F Hussain represent similar artistic thoughts to his > faith. > > Regards, > V Murali > > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 10:58 PM, Inder Salim wrote: >> well, we are told to believe ( in Hinduism as well ) that God is one, >> has no gender, colour  texuture or name, so no question depiting GOD >> with or without garments >> >> and if  God exists in multiples, in all the faces of all the human >> beings, animals, plants, mountains seas, air and sunlight, then the >> question of depicting this way or that does alter very little since >> the surface is vast and endless. >> >> Art is fun, and strangely liberates those who look into eye of it >> constatnly. that is another matter, which needs a cool and patient >> listening.......... But, right now >> >> let us re-read what  Justice  Sanjay Kishan. Kaul said is his land >> mark2007 judgement in support of freedom of expresion,  thus >> exonarating  Artist MF Hussain from the so called indecent deptiction >> of Hindu Goddess,  and simultaneously questioined the Right Wing Hindu >> intolarant and ingnorant face of our polity, who have nothing but an >> axe to grind. >> >> with love >> is >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Murali V wrote: >>> Well who is the next hindu godess to be depicted nude by M F Hussain. >>> >>> Regards, >>> V Murali >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Inder Salim wrote: >>>> Dear all >>>> >>>> please click to see >>>> >>>> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_pllHvmNB5GI/Sn7kVWsGT2I/AAAAAAAAAPE/lF_BbjckUgg/s1600-h/sraswati+with+text1.jpg >>>> >>>> image in solidarity with MF Hussain >>>> >>>> with love >>>> inder salim >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 2:36 PM, ashok kumari wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> we are submitting a memo to the home minister on Husain not being included >>>>> in the Art Summit. Please send your endorsement as soon as possible. >>>>> >>>>> Minister of Home Affairs >>>>> Government of India >>>>> North Block >>>>> New Delhi >>>>> >>>>> Dear Shri Chidambaram, >>>>> >>>>> We - artists, gallerists and critics, are approaching you on behalf of the >>>>> artists community on the long standing issue of attempts by Hindu right-wing >>>>> groups to effectively impose a ban on exhibiting any work by our greatest >>>>> living artist, 94 year old MF Husain, through threats of assault and >>>>> violence. These groups, including the BJP, Bajrang Dal, Sri Ram Sena, the >>>>> VHP, and the Shiv Sena have led a concerted communal campaign against Husain >>>>> accusing him of blasphemy since 1996. This campaign has taken a violent form >>>>> on many occasions and has also led to cases being filed against the artist >>>>> in courts across India, and has led to Husain's self-imposed exile. >>>>> >>>>> In a landmark judgement dismissing three such cases in the Delhi High Court >>>>> in 2007, Justice Sanjay Kishen Kaul defended the right of freedom of >>>>> expression under the Constitution of India. The Union Ministry of Culture, >>>>> during the previous Art Summit held in 2008 had categorically stated “Shri >>>>> M. F. Husain is one of the most prominent artist of the country and the >>>>> absence of his works at the India Art Summit will not reflect the true art >>>>> scenario of India.” >>>>> >>>>> We are very disturbed by reports that the upcoming International India Art >>>>> Summit taking place at Pragati Maidan from August 19-24th has asked >>>>> participating galleries for the second year running to not display the work >>>>> of Husain citing fear of attacks. We enclose a report from the Telegraph >>>>> which quotes them as saying that the Home Ministry has offered no assurance >>>>> of security. >>>>> >>>>> We find it shocking that the work of the most famous artist cannot be shown >>>>> in the country of his birth, even though he is not a criminal, nor is his >>>>> work proscribed or banned. The Art Summit is being attended by luminaries >>>>> from around the world, and it is a sad state of affairs that we, who >>>>> justifiably pride ourselves as a great democracy, cannot resist threats from >>>>> these groups who we see as no less than other terrorists who threaten our >>>>> daily lives. >>>>> >>>>> We request a meeting with you to apprise you of the art community's anguish >>>>> and concern. >>>>> >>>>> Yours Sincerely, >>>>> >>>>> Vivan Sundaram, Ram Rahman, Parthiv Shah, Shireen Gandhi, Dadiba Pundole, >>>>> Geetha Mehra, Gayatri Sinha, Arun Vadhera, Renu Modi, Ashish Anand, Devika >>>>> Daulet Singh, Geeta Kapur, Peter Nagy >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! >>>>> Buzz. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 23:40:28 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:40:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908141018v5e85acacua27cadbc328da538@mail.gmail.com> References: <4eab87870908131008o1038548ft57cdbd38ce7a1d13@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908132156s2cbc9b7fgfdba54d854b125b7@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908140653w231ff75cyda0b88e641472430@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908141018v5e85acacua27cadbc328da538@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Godhra is a 'luke-warm' case (not for me, because the truth is still elusive) because the reason or the manner of the death of those 58 people is still not known. And please don't tell me that the Nanavati Commission has given its report. The report was categorically rejected by the SC, which then constituted an SIT to investigate the case. What's more, even now some of the people have not been identified. Yet, they were branded as 'karsevaks' and violence was conducted in their name. How come that is justifiable? The truth about Godhra needs to be found out, so also justice for those who lost their lives in 'revenge' acts. Can the 'victims' now come out of their sense of victimization? Or is it always there in them as it is, since their birth and continuing till death? From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 23:42:15 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:42:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908141007o158d10eerb19b5b0ef7364c42@mail.gmail.com> References: <722442.13451.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908131008o1038548ft57cdbd38ce7a1d13@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908132156s2cbc9b7fgfdba54d854b125b7@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908141007o158d10eerb19b5b0ef7364c42@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: By the way, why not ask the Hindus to state in a single voice who they represent: Hindu Rashtra or secular India? And yes, who is this single voice who can speak for the Hindus. Please mention that as well. Also, mention this 'single voice' of the Muslims too, from whom you are making this demand. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 00:05:56 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:05:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908141025u29265be1s772407fa6dac53ac@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00908130019m1090d9edkbc109fe97006049f@mail.gmail.com> <823583.97663.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908131013n5c15f1e2o693bca9c5d18636e@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908140657l754ee6e3u68bcb8cb848a1791@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908141025u29265be1s772407fa6dac53ac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Murali ji Good idea to die with one's thoughts. But shouldn't those thoughts be based on rational connects, (which will have bias in all probability) which can help the people to actually reach their potential and become better individuals, thereby contributing to their own growth and to that of society, growth in terms of improvement (physical, mental, social, psychological and health-wise)? The problem is that all of this talk is simply about proving oneself to be the victim and continuing with the talk of sense of victimization (and in this process, I see a genuine victim named Pawan Durani ji having stopped writing articles, though I had differences with him, but was looking to read articles from him too), has got me really in despair. What really shocks me is your hatred towards Muslims, or at least your suspicion of them? What have they done to you on a personal note, which makes you think in this way? What have they done to your family (if they have as well) which made you go in this line? Where do you see laws being implemented which favor the Muslims (I agree with say the Muslim personal law and the upturning of Shah Bano judgement as appeasement, but frankly speaking, except for grand statements being made, the conditions of Muslims is as bad as that of SC's and only better than that of ST's.)? Then again, why do you agree on the appeasement of SC's or ST's, in terms of reservation being provided to them (or other forms of affirmative action), but not for Muslims, when their economic and educational status is not very different from that of the SC's? Why do you feel that Muslims are not loyal to India, inspite of having fought shoulders to shoulders right from the 1857 revolt uptil now? Why don't you realize that Partition was a traumatic event which displaced massive nos. of people, who lost their land, their sense of identity fixed to certain places, and whose displacement coupled with violence around them made them so senseless as to perpetrate inhuman violence on those around them who unfortunately belonged to the opposite religion? Why do you think that Muslims of India are just like some of the foolish frenzy-based Islamic rulers and kings like Ghazni and Aurangzeb? Why don't you realize that Muslims have not only survived in cities but also in villages, many of them not even having read the Quran because of illiteracy, and having heard it only by word of mouth publicity? Why don't you realize that in villages, it's these Muslims and Hindus who have lived side by side, not necessarily always happily, but in a mode of adjustment and flexibility with each other? Even in cities that has been the case. Then why do you still feel suspicious? Is it because the Muslims generally don't vote for the BJP, and you are a supporter of that party? Is it because you believe in the RSS ideology and have found some Muslims like that? The urban Muslims are now being cast in a stereotypical image (and some of them also wish to subscribe to it), but does that mean that all of them are alike? Why do I not see the same passion for say the RTI, the NREGA or the RTF? Why do I not see the same passion for issues which concern the tribals like displacement due to large scale dams like the Sardar Sarovar, which are an insult to the very word 'development', based on which they are justified? Why do I not see the same passion when people have to die in caste based violence or religion based violence and women get raped? Why do I not see the same passion when the Indian state decides to spend money on making a nuclear submarine, disregarding the fact that almost half of the children born in this country are malnourished? (India may be the 6th nation to have built the nuclear submarine, but it has been first since many years in the field of malnourishment of children). Why do I not see the same passion for elimination of corruption? Why do I not see the same passion for child rights, including the right to education and human rights for them? Or even for issues of subjugation of women and thereby rendering them weak economically, socially and politically? Aren't those issues? Is Hindu-Muslim still an issue for us? When will this issue end? Should the Muslims migrate from India forever, is that going to finally satisfy you? Or should they all study in RSS schools to learn 'nationalism' and 'patriotism' and sing 'Vande Mataram' as well, even if forcibly so? Should the Muslims also wear 'patriotism' on their sleeves? Should the Muslims learn Sanskrit forcibly and read the Gita rather than the Koran? My question to Rajen ji was the same, and to you it's the same as well: what do you expect of the Indian Muslims and on what basis do you justify it? And when will you be finally satisfied of their behavior and intent? On the 62nd year of independence, it seems many of us are still not free from the clutches of suspicion and mistrust sown in our minds. What's the use of celebrating this Independence Day then, when we don't even know the meaning of freedom and independence at all? Therefore, a very happy (Partial) Independence Day, probably with the hope that we can get to have a full Independence Day in the future sometime. Regards Rakesh From anansi1 at earthlink.net Sat Aug 15 03:59:49 2009 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul D. Miller) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:29:49 -1200 (GMT-12:00) Subject: [Reader-list] Principles of Newspeak Message-ID: <25279992.1250288990386.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Home http://www.newspeakdictionary.com/ns-prin.html Excerpt from "The Principles of Newspeak" An appendix to 1984 Written by : George Orwell in 1948 Newspeak was the official language of Oceania, and had been devised to meet the ideological needs of Ingsoc, or English Socialism. In the year 1984 there was not as yet anyone who used Newspeak as his sole means of communication, either in speech or writing. The leading articles of the Times were written in it, but this was a tour de force which could only be carried out by a specialist, It was expected that Newspeak would have finally superseded Oldspeak (or standard English, as we should call it) by about the year 2050. Meanwhile, it gained ground steadily, all party members tending to use Newspeak words and grammatical constructions more and more in their everyday speech. The version in 1984, and embodied in the Ninth and Tenth Editions of Newspeak dictionary, was a provisional one, and contained many superfluous words and archaic formations which were due to be suppressed later. It is with the final, perfected version, as embodied in the Eleventh Edition of the dictionary, that we are concerned here. The purpose of Newspeak was not only to provide a medium of expression for the world-view and mental habits proper to the devotees of IngSoc, but to make all other modes of thought impossible. It was intended that when Newspeak had been adopted once and for all and Oldspeak forgotten, a heretical thought -- that is, a thought diverging from the principles of IngSoc -- should be literally unthinkable, at least so far as thought is dependent on words. Its vocabulary was so constructed as to give exact and often very subtle expression to every meaning that a Party member could properly wish to express, while excluding all other meaning and also the possibility of arriving at them by indirect methods. This was done partly by the invention of new words, but chiefly by eliminating undesirable words and stripping such words as remained of unorthodox meanings, and so far as possible of all secondary meaning whatever. To give a single example - The word free still existed in Newspeak, but could only be used in such statements as "The dog is free from lice" or "This field is free from weeds." It could not be used in its old sense of "politically free" or "intellectually free," since political and intellectual freedom no longer existed even as concepts, and were therefore of necessity nameless. Quite apart from the suppression of definitely heretical words, reduction of vocabulary was regarded as an end in itself, and no word that could be dispenses with was allowed to survive. Newspeak was designed not to extend but to diminish the range of thought, and this purpose was indirectly assisted by cutting the choice of words down to a minimum. Newspeak was founded on the English language as we now know it, though many Newspeak sentences, even when not containing newly created words, would be barely intelligible to an English-speaker of our own day. Newspeak words were divided into three distinct classes, known as the A vocabulary, the B vocabulary, and the C vocabulary. It would be simpler to discuss each class separately, but the grammatical peculiarities of the language can be dealt with in the section devoted to the A vocabulary, since the same rules held good for all three categories. The A vocabulary. The A vocabulary consisted of words needed for the business of everyday life --- For such things as eating, drinking, working, putting on one's clothes, going up and down stairs, riding in vehicles, gardening, cooking, and the like. It was composed almost entirely of words that we already possess -- words like hit, run, dog, tree, sugar, house, field -- but in comparison with the present-day English vocabulary, their number was extremely small, while their meanings were far more rigidly defined. All ambiguities and shades of meaning had been purged out of them. So far as it could be achieved, a Newspeak word of this class was simply a staccato sound expressing one clearly understood concept. It would have been quite impossible to use the A vocabulary for literary purposes or for political or philosophical discussion. It was intended only to express simple, purposive thoughts, usually involving concrete objects or physical actions. The grammar of Newspeak has two outstanding peculiarities. The first of these was an almost complete interchangeability between different parts of speech. Any word in the language (in principle this applied even to very abstract words such as if or when) could be used either as verb, noun, adjective, or adverb. Between the verb and noun form, when of the same root, there was never any variation, this rule of itself involving the destruction of many archaic forms. The word thought, for example, did not exist in Newspeak. Its place was taken by think, which did duty for both noun and verb. No etymological principle was involved here; in some cases it was the original noun that was chosen for retention, in other cases the verb. Even where a noun and a verb of kindred meanings were not etymologically connected, one or other of them was frequently suppressed. There was, for example, no such word as cut, its meaning being sufficiently covered by the noun-verb knife. Adjectives were formed by adding the suffix -ful to the noun verb, and adverbs by adding -wise. Thus, for example, speedful meant "rapid" and speedwise meant "quickly." Certain of our present-day adjectives, such as good, strong, big, black, soft, were retained, but their total number was very small. There was little need for them, since almost any adjectival meaning could be arrived at by adding -ful to a noun-verb. None of the now-existing adverbs was retained, except for a few already ending in -wise; the -wise termination was invariable. the word well, for example, was replaced by goodwise. In addition, any word -- this again applied in principle to every word in the language -- could be negative by adding the affix un-, or could be strengthened by the affix plus-, or, for still greater emphasis doubleplus-. Thus, for example, uncold meant "warm" while pluscold and doublepluscold meant, respectively, "very cold" and "superlatively cold". It was also possible, as in present-day English, to modify the meaning of almost any word by prepositional affixes such as ante-, post-, up-, down-, etc. By such methods it was possible to bring about an enormous diminution of vocabulary. Given, for instance, the word good, there was no need for such a word as bad, since the required meaning was equally well --indeed better-- expressed by ungood. All that was necessary, in any case where two words formed a natural pair of opposites, was to decide which of them to suppress. Dark, for example, could be replaced by Unlight, or light by undark, according to preference. The second distinguishing mark of Newspeak grammar was its regularity. Subject to a few exceptions which are mentioned below, all inflections followed the same rules. Thus in all verbs the preterite and the past participle were the same and ended in -ed. The preterite of steal was stealed, the preterite of think was thinked, and so on throughout the language, all such forms as swam, gave, brought, spoke, taken, etc., being abolished. All plurals were made by adding -s or -es as the case might be. The plurals of man, ox, life, were mans, oxes, lifes. Comparison of adjectives was invariably made by adding -er, -est (good, gooder, goodest), irregular forms and the more, most formation being suppressed. The only classes of words that were still allowed to inflect irregularly were the pronouns, the relatives, the demonstrative adjectives, and the auxiliary verbs. All of these followed their ancient usage, except that whom had been scrapped as unnecessary, and the shall, should tenses had been dropped, all their uses being covered by will and would. There were also certain irregularities in word-formation arising out of the need for rapid and easy speech. A word which was difficult to utter, or was liable to be incorrectly heard, was held to be ipso facto a bad word: occasionally therefore, for the sake of euphony, extra letters were inserted into a word or an archaic formation was retained. But this need made itself felt chiefly in connexion with the B vocabulary. Why so great an importance was attached to ease of pronunciation will be made clear later in this essay. The B vocabulary. The B vocabulary consisted of words which had been deliberately constructed for political purposes: words, that is to say, which not only had in every case a political implication, but were intended to impose a desirable mental attitude upon the person using them. Without a full understanding of the principles of Ingsoc it was difficult to use these words correctly. In some cases they could be translated into Oldspeak, or even into words taken from the A vocabulary, but this usually demanded a long paraphrase and always involved the loss of certain overtones. The B words were a sort of verbal shorthand, often packing whole ranges of ideas into a few syllables, and at the same time more accurate and forcible than ordinary language. The B words were in all cases compound words. They consisted of two or more words, or portions of words, welded together in an easily pronounceable form. The resulting amalgam was always a noun-verb, and inflected according to the ordinary rules. To take a single example: the word goodthink, meaning, very roughly, 'orthodoxy', or, if one chose to regard it as a verb, 'to think in an orthodox manner'. This inflected as follows: noun-verb, goodthink; past tense and past participle, goodthinked; present participle, goodthinking; adjective, goodthinkful; adverb, goodthinkwise; verbal noun, goodthinker. The B words were not constructed on any etymological plan. The words of which they were made up could be any parts of speech, and could be placed in any order and mutilated in any way which made them easy to pronounce while indicating their derivation. In the word crimethink (thoughtcrime), for instance, the think came second, whereas in thinkpol (Thought Police) it came first, and in the latter word police had lost its second syllable. Because of the great difficulty in securing euphony, irregular formations were commoner in the B vocabulary than in the A vocabulary. For example, the adjective forms of Minitrue, Minipax, and Miniluv were, respectively, Minitruthful, Minipeaceful, and Minilovely, simply because -trueful,-paxful, and -loveful were slightly awkward to pronounce. In principle, however, all B words could inflect, and all inflected in exactly the same way. Some of the B words had highly subtilized meanings, barely intelligible to anyone who had not mastered the language as a whole. Consider, for example, such a typical sentence from a Times leading article as Oldthinkers unbellyfeel Ingsoc. The shortest rendering that one could make of this in Oldspeak would be: 'Those whose ideas were formed before the Revolution cannot have a full emotional understanding of the principles of English Socialism.' But this is not an adequate translation. To begin with, in order to grasp the full meaning of the Newspeak sentence quoted above, one would have to have a clear idea of what is meant by Ingsoc. And in addition, only a person thoroughly grounded in Ingsoc could appreciate the full force of the word bellyfeel, which implied a blind, enthusiastic acceptance difficult to imagine today; or of the word oldthink, which was inextricably mixed up with the idea of wickedness and decadence. But the special function of certain Newspeak words, of which oldthink was one, was not so much to express meanings as to destroy them. These words, necessarily few in number, had had their meanings extended until they contained within themselves whole batteries of words which, as they were sufficiently covered by a single comprehensive term, could now be scrapped and forgotten. The greatest difficulty facing the compilers of the Newspeak Dictionary was not to invent new words, but, having invented them, to make sure what they meant: to make sure, that is to say, what ranges of words they cancelled by their existence. * Compound words such as speakwrite, were of course to be found in the A vocabulary, but these were merely convenient abbreviations and had no special ideological colour. As we have already seen in the case of the word free, words which had once borne a heretical meaning were sometimes retained for the sake of convenience, but only with the undesirable meanings purged out of them. Countless other words such as honour, justice, morality, internationalism, democracy, science, and religion had simply ceased to exist. A few blanket words covered them, and, in covering them, abolished them. All words grouping themselves round the concepts of liberty and equality, for instance, were contained in the single word crimethink, while all words grouping themselves round the concepts of objectivity and rationalism were contained in the single word oldthink. Greater precision would have been dangerous. What was required in a Party member was an outlook similar to that of the ancient Hebrew who knew, without knowing much else, that all nations other than his own worshipped 'false gods'. He did not need to know that these gods were called Baal, Osiris, Moloch, Ashtaroth, and the like: probably the less he knew about them the better for his orthodoxy. He knew Jehovah and the commandments of Jehovah: he knew, therefore, that all gods with other names or other attributes were false gods. In somewhat the same way, the party member knew what constituted right conduct, and in exceedingly vague, generalized terms he knew what kinds of departure from it were possible. His sexual life, for example, was entirely regulated by the two Newspeak words sexcrime (sexual immorality) and goodsex (chastity). Sexcrime covered all sexual misdeeds whatever. It covered fornication, adultery, homosexuality, and other perversions, and, in addition, normal intercourse practised for its own sake. There was no need to enumerate them separately, since they were all equally culpable, and, in principle, all punishable by death. In the C vocabulary, which consisted of scientific and technical words, it might be necessary to give specialized names to certain sexual aberrations, but the ordinary citizen had no need of them. He knew what was meant by goodsex -- that is to say, normal intercourse between man and wife, for the sole purpose of begetting children, and without physical pleasure on the part of the woman: all else was sexcrime. In Newspeak it was seldom possible to follow a heretical thought further than the perception that it was heretical: beyond that point the necessary words were nonexistent. No word in the B vocabulary was ideologically neutral. A great many were euphemisms. Such words, for instance, as joycamp (forced-labour camp) or Minipax (Ministry of Peace, i. e. Ministry of War) meant almost the exact opposite of what they appeared to mean. Some words, on the other hand, displayed a frank and contemptuous understanding of the real nature of Oceanic society. An example was prolefeed, meaning the rubbishy entertainment and spurious news which the Party handed out to the masses. Other words, again, were ambivalent, having the connotation 'good' when applied to the Party and 'bad' when applied to its enemies. But in addition there were great numbers of words which at first sight appeared to be mere abbreviations and which derived their ideological colour not from their meaning, but from their structure. So far as it could be contrived, everything that had or might have political significance of any kind was fitted into the B vocabulary. The name of every organization, or body of people, or doctrine, or country, or institution, or public building, was invariably cut down into the familiar shape; that is, a single easily pronounced word with the smallest number of syllables that would preserve the original derivation. In the Ministry of Truth, for example, the Records Department, in which Winston Smith worked, was called Recdep, the Fiction Department was called Ficdep, the Teleprogrammes Department was called Teledep, and so on. This was not done solely with the object of saving time. Even in the early decades of the twentieth century, telescoped words and phrases had been one of the characteristic features of political language; and it had been noticed that the tendency to use abbreviations of this kind was most marked in totalitarian countries and totalitarian organizations. Examples were such words as Nazi, Gestapo, Comintern, Inprecorr, Agitprop. In the beginning the practice had been adopted as it were instinctively, but in Newspeak it was used with a conscious purpose. It was perceived that in thus abbreviating a name one narrowed and subtly altered its meaning, by cutting out most of the associations that would otherwise cling to it. The words Communist International, for instance, call up a composite picture of universal human brotherhood, red flags, barricades, Karl Marx, and the Paris Commune. The word Comintern, on the other hand, suggests merely a tightly-knit organization and a well-defined body of doctrine. It refers to something almost as easily recognized, and as limited in purpose, as a chair or a table. Comintern is a word that can be uttered almost without taking thought, whereas Communist International is a phrase over which one is obliged to linger at least momentarily. In the same way, the associations called up by a word like Minitrue are fewer and more controllable than those called up by Ministry of Truth. This accounted not only for the habit of abbreviating whenever possible, but also for the almost exaggerated care that was taken to make every word easily pronounceable. In Newspeak, euphony outweighed every consideration other than exactitude of meaning. Regularity of grammar was always sacrificed to it when it seemed necessary. And rightly so, since what was required, above all for political purposes, was short clipped words of unmistakable meaning which could be uttered rapidly and which roused the minimum of echoes in the speaker's mind. The words of the B vocabulary even gained in force from the fact that nearly all of them were very much alike. Almost invariably these words -- goodthink, Minipax, prolefeed, sexcrime, joycamp, Ingsoc, bellyfeel, thinkpol, and countless others -- were words of two or three syllables, with the stress distributed equally between the first syllable and the last. The use of them encouraged a gabbling style of speech, at once staccato and monotonous. And this was exactly what was aimed at. The intention was to make speech, and especially speech on any subject not ideologically neutral, as nearly as possible independent of consciousness. For the purposes of everyday life it was no doubt necessary, or sometimes necessary, to reflect before speaking, but a Party member called upon to make a political or ethical judgment should be able to spray forth the correct opinions as automatically as a machine gun spraying forth bullets. His training fitted him to do this, the language gave him an almost foolproof instrument, and the texture of the words, with their harsh sound and a certain willful ugliness which was in accord with the spirit of Ingsoc, assisted the process still further. So did the fact of having very few words to choose from. Relative to our own, the Newspeak vocabulary was tiny, and new ways of reducing it were constantly being devised. Newspeak, indeed, differed from most all other languages in that its vocabulary grew smaller instead of larger every year. Each reduction was a gain, since the smaller the area of choice, the smaller the temptation to take thought. Ultimately it was hoped to make articulate speech issue from the larynx without involving the higher brain centers at all. This aim was frankly admitted in the Newspeak word duckspeak, meaning ' to quack like a duck'. Like various other words in the B vocabulary, duckspeak was ambivalent in meaning. Provided that the opinions which were quacked out were orthodox ones, it implied nothing but praise, and when The Times referred to one of the orators of the Party as a doubleplusgood duckspeaker it was paying a warm and valued compliment. The C vocabulary. The C vocabulary was supplementary to the others and consisted entirely of scientific and technical terms. These resembled the scientific terms in use today, and were constructed from the same roots, but the usual care was taken to define them rigidly and strip them of undesirable meanings. They followed the same grammatical rules as the words in the other two vocabularies. Very few of the C words had any currency either in everyday speech or in political speech. Any scientific worker or technician could find all the words he needed in the list devoted to his own speciality, but he seldom had more than a smattering of the words occurring in the other lists. Only a very few words were common to all lists, and there was no vocabulary expressing the function of Science as a habit of mind, or a method of thought, irrespective of its particular branches. There was, indeed, no word for 'Science', any meaning that it could possibly bear being already sufficiently covered by the word Ingsoc. >From the foregoing account it will be seen that in Newspeak the expression of unorthodox opinions, above a very low level, was well-nigh impossible. It was of course possible to utter heresies of a very crude kind, a species of blasphemy. It would have been possible, for example, to say Big Brother is ungood. But this statement, which to an orthodox ear merely conveyed a self-evident absurdity, could not have been sustained by reasoned argument, because the necessary words were not available. Ideas inimical to Ingsoc could only be entertained in a vague wordless form, and could only be named in very broad terms which lumped together and condemned whole groups of heresies without defining them in doing so. One could, in fact, only use Newspeak for unorthodox purposes by illegitimately translating some of the words back into Oldspeak. For example, All mans are equal was a possible Newspeak sentence, but only in the same sense in which All men are red-haired is a possible Oldspeak sentence. It did not contain a grammatical error, but it expressed a palpable untruth-i.e. that all men are of equal size, weight, or strength. The concept of political equality no longer existed, and this secondary meaning had accordingly been purged out of the word equal. In 1984, when Oldspeak was still the normal means of communication, the danger theoretically existed that in using Newspeak words one might remember their original meanings. In practice it was not difficult for any person well grounded in doublethink to avoid doing this, but within a couple of generations even the possibility of such a lapse would have vanished. A person growing up with Newspeak as his sole language would no more know that equal had once had the secondary meaning of 'politically equal', or that free had once meant 'intellectually free', than for instance, a person who had never heard of chess would be aware of the secondary meanings attaching to queen and rook. There would be many crimes and errors which it would be beyond his power to commit, simply because they were nameless and therefore unimaginable. And it was to be foreseen that with the passage of time the distinguishing characteristics of Newspeak would become more and more pronounced -- its words growing fewer and fewer, their meanings more and more rigid, and the chance of putting them to improper uses always diminishing. When Oldspeak had been once and for all superseded, the last link with the past would have been severed. History had already been rewritten, but fragments of the literature of the past survived here and there, imperfectly censored, and so long as one retained one's knowledge of Oldspeak it was possible to read them. In the future such fragments, even if they chanced to survive, would be unintelligible and untranslatable. It was impossible to translate any passage of Oldspeak into Newspeak unless it either referred to some technical process or some very simple everyday action, or was already orthodox(goodthinkful would be the Newspeak expression) in tendency. In practice this meant that no book written before approximately 1960 could be translated as a whole. Pre-revolutionary literature could only be subjected to ideological translation -- that is, alteration in sense as well as language. Take for example the well-known passage from the Declaration of Independence: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among men, deriving their powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of Government becomes destructive of those ends, it is the right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Government. . . It would have been quite impossible to render this into Newspeak while keeping to the sense of the original. The nearest one could come to doing so would be to swallow the whole passage up in the single word crimethink. A full translation could only be an ideological translation, whereby Jefferson's words would be changed into a panegyric on absolute government. A good deal of the literature of the past was, indeed, already being transformed in this way. Considerations of prestige made it desirable to preserve the memory of certain historical figures, while at the same time bringing their achievements into line with the philosophy of Ingsoc. Various writers, such as Shakespeare, Milton, Swift, Byron, Dickens, and some others were therefore in process of translation: when the task had been completed, their original writings, with all else that survived of the literature of the past, would be destroyed. These translations were a slow and difficult business, and it was not expected that they would be finished before the first or second decade of the twenty-first century. There were also large quantities of merely utilitarian literature -- indispensable technical manuals, and the like -- that had to be treated in the same way. It was chiefly in order to allow time for the preliminary work of translation that the final adoption of Newspeak had been fixed for so late a date as 2050. George Orwell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Some words known to have existed in Newspeak in their original form (but adhering to the guidelines above) : big, black, chocolate, cold, dog, forecast, file, field, full, good, hit, house, knife, life, man, ox, print, quote, rectify, report, run, soft, speech, speed, steal, strong, sugar, think, tree, write. Words known to have been removed from newspeak : bad, democracy, innuendo, freedom, lie, thought, well. Some examples of Newspeak/English Translations from Orwell's novel : Original Newspeak : Times 3.12.83 reporting bb dayorder doubleplusungood refs unperson rewrite fullwise upsub antefiling English Translation : The reporting of Big Brother's "Order of the Day" in the Times of December 3rd 1983 is extremely unsatisfactory and makes reference to nonexistent persons. Rewrite it in full and submit your draft to higher authority before filing. Original English : "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that thy are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among men, deriving their powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of Government becomes destructive of those ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Government....." Newspeak Translation : Crimethink More examples of Newspeak from the novel 1984: times 17.3.84 bb speech malreported africa rectify times 19.12.83 forecasts 3 yr 4th quarter 83 misprints verify current issue times 14.2.84 miniplenty malquoted chocolate rectify Items one comma five comma seven approved fullwise stop suggestion contained item six doubleplus ridiculous verging crimethink cancel stop unproceed constructionwise antegetting plusfull estimates machinery overheads stop end message. From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 06:04:25 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 06:04:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Newspaper by rural Indian women wins UN literacy award Message-ID: http://www.deccanherald.com/content/17740/newspaper-rural-indian-women-wins.html Newspaper by rural Indian women wins UN literacy award United Nations, IANS: *A newspaper produced entirely by women in rural India is among the four winners of this year's Literacy Prizes awarded by the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (Unesco).* Also check http://www.nirantar.net/khabar.htm From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 09:43:20 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 09:43:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Drought of justice, flood of funds Message-ID: Dear all I sincerely believe that instead of giving awards to P.Sainath, the govt. would do well to listen to him and actually implement some of his sayings in its policies. Do read this article. Regards Rakesh Article: P. Sainath * Ask for expansion of the NREGS, universal access to the PDS, more spending on health and education — and there’s no money. But there’s enough to give away to the corporate world in concessions. * Sure, August is proving an unusual month. But what an extraordinary one July was! We celebrated the delivery of the cheapest car in the world and the costliest *tur dal* in our history within the same 31 days. And it took some work to get there. The price of *tur dal* was around Rs. 34 a kilogram just after the 2004 elections, Rs. 54 before the 2009 polls, Rs. 62 just after and, now at over Rs. 90, bids for three-figure status. The euphoria of July also saw Montek Singh Ahluwalia declare that the “worst is behind us.” (Though it must be conceded that he said that even in June and, possibly, earlier.) That’s good. I only wish he had told us when the worst was upon us. It would have been nice to know. Otherwise, it gets hard to appreciate improvement. As a matter of fact, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Agriculture Minister Sharad Pawar suggest that the worst could be ahead of us. And they don’t mean the swine flu. Both appear to have written off much of the *kharif*crop. They advise us to buckle up for a further rise in food prices due to the drought they now say affects 177 districts. That they’ve thrown in the towel on the *kharif* crop is evident in their calling for a more efficient planning of the *rabi*. Yet, the government had two months during which it could have opted for compensatory production of foodgrain in regions getting relatively better rainfall. But there was no effort at monsoon management. Even today, there are very useful things that could be done to counter the worst ahead. A positive step taken by the Rural Development Ministry now allows small but vital assets like farm ponds to be created on the lands of farmers through the NREGS. A pond on every farm should be the objective of every government. (Incidentally, this would help hugely with the *rabi*season. It would also ease the hostility of quite a few farmers towards the NREGS.) A massive expansion of the NREGS will also help cushion the lakhs of labourers struggling to find work and devastated by rising food costs. But it would call for throwing out the entirely destructive 100-days-per-household limit on work under the scheme. With the Prime Minister calling for anti-drought measures on “a war footing,” this should be the time to do it. The price-rise-due-to-drought warning is a fraud. Of course, a drought and major crop failure will push up prices further. But prices were steadily rising for five years since the 2004 elections, long before a drought. Take the years between 2004 and 2008 when you had some good monsoons. And more than one year in which we claimed “record production” of foodgrain. The price of rice went up 46 per cent, of wheat by over 62 per cent, atta 55 per cent, salt 42 per cent and more. By March 2008, the average increase in the prices of such items was already well over 40 per cent. Then, they rose again till a little before the 2009 polls. And have risen dramatically in the past three months. The Agriculture Minister appears to have figured out that the stunning rise in the price of pulses may have little to do with drought. “There is no reason,” he finds, “for prices to rise in this fashion merely on a supply-demand gap.” He then goes on to find a valid reason: “blackmarketing or hoarding.” But remains silent on forward trading in agricultural commodities. Many senior Ministers have long maintained that “there is no evidence” that speculation related to forward trading has had any impact on food prices. (The ban on trading in wheat futures was lifted even before the results of the 2009 polls were announced in May. And existing bans on other items have been challenged in interpretation.) The price rise since 2004 could be the highest for any period in the country barring perhaps the pre-Emergency period. For the media, of course, July was far more interesting for the political price in Parliament over the gas war between the Ambani brothers. When these two barons brawl, governments can fall. Also, how could atta be more interesting than airline tickets (the prices of which fell dramatically over several years)? Food prices might have gone up but airline travel costs went down and those are the prices that mattered. So the price of aviation turbine fuel became a far more to-be-covered thing as private airlines threatened a strike demanding public money bailouts. At the time of writing, it appears the government will try and make things cheaper for them. These airline owners include some associated with the IPL, which got crores of rupees worth of tax write-offs last year. Maharashtra waived entertainment tax on the IPL. And with so many games held in Mumbai that proved a bonanza for the barons paid for by the public. There’s always money for the Big Guys. Take a look at the budget and the “Revenues foregone under the central tax system.” The estimate of revenues foregone from corporate revenues in 2008-09 is Rs. 68,914 crore. ( http://indiabudget.nic.in/ub2009-10/statrevfor/annex12.pdf) By contrast, the NREGS covering tens of millions of impoverished human beings gets Rs. 39,100 crore in the 2009-10 budget. Remember the great loan waiver of 2008, that historic write-off of the loans of indebted farmers? Recall the editorials whining about ‘fiscal imprudence?’ That was a one-time, one-off waiver covering countless millions of farmers and was claimed to touch Rs. 70,000 crore. But over Rs. 130,000 crore (in direct taxes) has been doled out in concessions in just two budgets to a tiny gaggle of merchants hogging at the public trough. Without a whimper of protest in the media. Imagine what budget giveaways to corporates since 1991 would total. We’d be talking trillions of rupees. Imagine if we were able to calculate what the corporate mob has gained in terms of revenue foregone in indirect taxes. Those would be much higher and would mostly swell the corporate kitty for the simple reason that producers rarely pass on these gains to consumers. Let’s take only what the budget tells us (Annexure 12, Table 12, p.58). Income foregone in 2007-08 due to direct tax concessions was Rs. 62,199 crore. That foregone on excise duty was Rs. 87,468 crore. And on customs duty Rs. 1,53,593 crore. That adds up to Rs. 3,03,260 crore. Even if we drop export credit from this, it comes to well over Rs. 200,000 crore. For 2008-09, that figure would be over Rs. 300,000 crore. That is a very conservative estimate. It does not include all manner of subsidies and rate cuts and other freebies to the corporate sector. But it’s big enough. Simply put, the corporate world has grabbed concessions in just two years that total more than seven times the ‘fiscally imprudent’ farm loan waiver. In fact, it means that on average we have been feeding the corporate world close to Rs. 700 crore every day in those two years. Imagine calculating what this figure would be, in total, since 1991. (Er.., what’s the word for the bracket above ‘trillion?’) Ask for an expansion of the NREGS, seek universal access to the PDS, plead for more spending on public health and education — and there’s no money. Yet, there’s enough to give away nearly Rs. 30 crore an hour to the corporate world in concessions. If Indian corporates saw their net profits rise in April-June this year, despite gloom and doom around them, there’s a reason. All that feeding frenzy at the public trough. The same quarter saw 1.7 lakh organised sector jobs lost in the very modest estimate of the Labour Ministry. That’s not counting the 15 lakh jobs said to have been lost in just the export sector between September and April by the then Commerce Secretary. And now comes the drought. A convenient villain to hang all our man-made distress on — and sure to oblige by adding greatly to that distress. A huge fall in farm incomes is in the offing. If the government wants to act on a war footing, it could start with a serious expansion of the NREGS (about the only lifejacket people in districts like Anantapur in Andhra Pradesh have at this point, for instance). It could launch, among many other things, the pond-in-every-farm programme. It could restructure farm loan schedules. It could start getting the idea of monsoon management into its thinking. It could curb forward trading-linked speculation that was driving one of our worst price rises in history long before the drought was on the horizon. And it could declare universal access to the PDS. That cost could probably be easily covered by, say, cancelling the dessert from the menu of the unending corporate free lunch in this country. From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 15 12:03:53 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:33:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] universal civil code In-Reply-To: <8C9C7935804A4AFD8009B6C9C98A2A4B@tara> Message-ID: <979548.49491.qm@web39101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Rakesh Ji and Taraprakash ji, Literacy has nothing to do with Khat Panchayats. It is only the stub-born attitude and hollow honour attached by men in the community.The other point is while women are getting better respects from men and have more say in family matters in other communities, it is not so in Haryana where women are still considered second fiddle and have virtual no say especially in matters pertaining to love, marriage, land & property. Honour killings were being done by individuals earlier, now it is being done by or under pressure from Panchayats. No one gets punished as no one dares become a witness because he/she is also threatened with same fate.Police know but are unable to proceed in such cases. I remember a case 30 years back, where a Jat Girl fell in love with a boy from other caste was thrown in a well by her own Tau(father's elder brother) even when she went on pleading to his Tau that she will never see the boy again.But the Tau told her that she had spoiled the family honour which can be brought back only when she is forced to die.Everyone in the village knew what happened but nothing happened.(For criticizers,I was not a witness to it, it was narrated by one of the villagers). Even with well educated people caste has become much more than it used to be.See HT matrimonials. The only positive factor in urban educated class is they only boycott the young couple but never kill them. Regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Fri, 8/14/09, taraprakash wrote: > From: taraprakash > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] universal civil code > To: "Rakesh Iyer" , "A.K. Malik" > Cc: "Sarai List" > Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 1:21 AM > > > > > > > > Hi all and Rakesh. As far > as literacy and economic > development is concerned, Hariyana is doing much better > than the BIMARU states. > For some reason the Khat patriarchs have managed to retain > control over the > entire community. >   >   >   >   > > ----- Original Message > ----- > From: > Rakesh > Iyer > To: A.K. Malik > > Cc: taraprakash > ; Sarai List > > Sent: Thursday, > August 13, 2009 1:39 > AM > Subject: Re: > [Reader-list] universal > civil code > > Dear Malik > > One of the reasons this has happened is > because of poor literacy rates, particularly of women, in > such regions as > well. I am pretty sure that Haryana has a poor literacy > rate of women. What is > more, such cases also ensure that the sex ratio is > skewed. This has a > deteriorating effect because studies show that districts > which have a lower > sex ratio have a higher crime rate. Hence, in particular > we need to do things > about it. > > And the first way, one may go, is changing the public > opinion, which is possible through the media and through > newspapers. One of > the bigger failures of our democracy has also been that > our political leaders > are more interested in votes rather than ideals and > understanding the issues > properly. We can't send the Indian Army after all to > kill the male heads of > these khap panchayats and teach them a lesson for > 'not modernizing', so as to > nullify the vote impact totally. > > Why not our media channels go to these > places and have the Sardesais and the Barkha Dutts have > the debates in these > villages? Who knows, what changes couldn't be brought > till now may have to be > brought in because of this. > > Regards > > Rakesh > > > From murali.chalam at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 12:08:00 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 12:08:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: References: <4eab87870908132156s2cbc9b7fgfdba54d854b125b7@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908140653w231ff75cyda0b88e641472430@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908141018v5e85acacua27cadbc328da538@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908142338p5fedefd1l5041ba95e42f5321@mail.gmail.com> The lone survivor of the Sabarmati Express train fire at Godhra in which 59 were killed on 27 February, 2002, Gayatri Panchal, a resident of Ahmedabad, has decried the U.C. Banerjee Commission report. Though she survived, she lost both her parents on that day. She has decried the U C Banerjee Commission report and has said: 'I will stick to the version that the coach was attacked by an armed crowd. The report of the Banerjee Commission is absolutely wrong. I have seen everything with my own eyes and barely escaped myself but lost both my parents. Mobs pelted stones at the coach for long and then threw in burning rags and also poured some inflammable material so that the coach was on fire. I will maintain the same wherever I am called to depose on the matter.' Nor am I. It is only when one side of the picture is projected, I am bound to present the other side of the picture as well. This may appear to many as though I am supporting the riot and rioters. Regards, V Murali On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Godhra is a 'luke-warm' case (not for me, because the truth is still > elusive) because the reason or the manner of the death of those 58 people is > still not known. And please don't tell me that the Nanavati Commission has > given its report. The report was categorically rejected by the SC, which > then constituted an SIT to investigate the case. What's more, even now some > of the people have not been identified. Yet, they were branded as > 'karsevaks' and violence was conducted in their name. > > How come that is justifiable? The truth about Godhra needs to be found out, > so also justice for those who lost their lives in 'revenge' acts. > > Can the 'victims' now come out of their sense of victimization? Or is it > always there in them as it is, since their birth and continuing till death? > > > From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 15 12:24:37 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:54:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] universal civil code In-Reply-To: <4581EE671D664247A327BB616D1F5741@tara> Message-ID: <658271.83366.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Mr Taraprakash, If you read thr' the Hindu Marriage Act, 1955, the Act applies to: (a) to any person who is a Hindu by religion in any of of its forms or developments, including a Virashaiva, a Lingayat or a follower of the Brahmo, Prarthana or Arya Samaj; (b) to any person who is a Buddhist, Jaina or Sikh by religion, and (c) to any other person domiciled in the territories to which this Act extends who is not a Muslim, Christian, Parsi or Jew by religion, unless it is proved that any such person would not have been governed by the Hindu law or by any custom or usage as part of that law in respect of any of the matters dealt with herein if this Act had not been passed. 2. You will see that it applies to Hindus and by definition also to Buddhists,Jains or Sikhs.Also applies to all others who are not Muslims,Christians,Parsis or Jews.So even if some one proves that he/she is not Hindu(but is not Muslim,Christian,Parsi or Jew), the Act will still apply to him/her. Regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Thu, 8/13/09, taraprakash wrote: > From: taraprakash > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] universal civil code > To: "A.K. Malik" > Cc: "Sarai List" > Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 9:41 PM > Thank Mr. Malik  for this input, > and also thanks Rakesh for forwarding the text of the act. > > The point of discussion is that if a certain community > wants not to be governed by this act and wants its members > to follow the law of the "khat panchayat" should they be > allowed on the line of the minorities who are allowed to > have their personal civil codes? What if these communities > do not want to be considered as Hindus? > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "A.K. Malik" > To: "taraprakash" > Cc: "Sarai List" > Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 1:28 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] universal civil code > > > > Dear Mr Taraprakash, > >                >      IN almost all the cases there is no > legal bar on the marriages taking place. The Panchayats are > putting their force on the young couples unnecessarily like > a person can't marry a girl from the same village, same > caste, same Gotra etc.The Hindu Marriage Act clearly defines > where it is prohibited.The Govt in power just can't dare > take any action because it is a very powerful and united > community wtih lot of vote power which can make or mar the > chances of a Govt formation especially in Haryana. > > Regards > > > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > > > > --- On Wed, 8/12/09, taraprakash > wrote: > > > >> From: taraprakash > >> Subject: [Reader-list] universal civil code > >> To: "Rakesh Iyer" , > "Murali V" > >> Cc: "sarai list" > >> Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 5:51 PM > >> I believe we need to have a greater > >> debate on this issue. Khat panchayats > >> have added a new dimension to the debate on Civil > code. > >> Should the jaats be > >> forced to follow marriage related laws under > Hindu > >> Undivided Family act? I > >> would love to hear some views on this. > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rakesh Iyer" > > >> To: "Murali V" > >> Cc: "sarai list" > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 5:06 AM > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Crime and No > Punishment: > >> Malegaon Blast > >> AccusedGet a Respite > >> > >> > >> > Dear Murali > >> > > >> > Great idea, provided: > >> > > >> > 1) The civil code will be introduced based on > points > >> of public discussion, > >> > after having heard out all views, and > implemented only > >> if it is approved > >> > through a referendum. All people of India > must be > >> involved, as it concerns > >> > them in particular, and must be encouraged to > bring > >> their choice to public > >> > notice through means of referendum. > >> > > >> > 2) The civil code must be looked at every > 15-20 years > >> to see if things > >> > have > >> > to be changed or not (in suit to current > realities). > >> For example, 20 years > >> > ago gay rights may not have been supported to > the > >> extent they are today. > >> > That has to be recognized. The code must also > be > >> debated upon periodically > >> > (not necessarily for changing) and on > special > >> occasions if changes have to > >> > be brought. > >> > > >> > Infact, such a civil code will be most useful > to > >> minorities, unlike the > >> > way > >> > it is portrayed by Muslim fundamentalists. > And the BJP > >> should be > >> > criticized > >> > for not having thought about it when they > were in > >> power (although what > >> > form > >> > would that code have taken is something > speculative). > >> > > >> > > >> > Regards > >> > > >> > Rakesh > >> > _________________________________________ > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media > and the > >> city. > >> > Critiques & Collaborations > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> with > >> > subscribe in the subject header. > >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the > >> city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >> with subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 15 12:39:02 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:09:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Absence of Husain at Art Summit In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908141004g74fba8aeu7a033cb623075d1f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <864594.77673.qm@web39108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Mr Salim and Mr Murali, I am putting a simple question to answer: Had a similar nudity shown for other faiths,would the person so doing have survived till today with our governance system? Regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Fri, 8/14/09, Murali V wrote: > From: Murali V > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Absence of Husain at Art Summit > To: "Inder Salim" > Cc: "reader-list" > Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 10:34 PM > Well who is the next hindu godess to > be depicted nude by M F Hussain. > > Regards, > V Murali > > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Inder Salim > wrote: > > Dear all > > > > please click to see > > > > http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_pllHvmNB5GI/Sn7kVWsGT2I/AAAAAAAAAPE/lF_BbjckUgg/s1600-h/sraswati+with+text1.jpg > > > > image in solidarity with MF Hussain > > > > with love > > inder salim > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 2:36 PM, ashok kumari > wrote: > >> > >> > >> we are submitting a memo to the home minister on > Husain not being included > >> in the Art Summit. Please send your endorsement as > soon as possible. > >> > >> Minister of Home Affairs > >> Government of India > >> North Block > >> New Delhi > >> > >> Dear Shri Chidambaram, > >> > >> We - artists, gallerists and critics, are > approaching you on behalf of the > >> artists community on the long standing issue of > attempts by Hindu right-wing > >> groups to effectively impose a ban on exhibiting > any work by our greatest > >> living artist, 94 year old MF Husain, through > threats of assault and > >> violence. These groups, including the BJP, Bajrang > Dal, Sri Ram Sena, the > >> VHP, and the Shiv Sena have led a concerted > communal campaign against Husain > >> accusing him of blasphemy since 1996. This > campaign has taken a violent form > >> on many occasions and has also led to cases being > filed against the artist > >> in courts across India, and has led to Husain's > self-imposed exile. > >> > >> In a landmark judgement dismissing three such > cases in the Delhi High Court > >> in 2007, Justice Sanjay Kishen Kaul defended the > right of freedom of > >> expression under the Constitution of India. The > Union Ministry of Culture, > >> during the previous Art Summit held in 2008 had > categorically stated “Shri > >> M. F. Husain is one of the most prominent artist > of the country and the > >> absence of his works at the India Art Summit will > not reflect the true art > >> scenario of India.” > >> > >> We are very disturbed by reports that the upcoming > International India Art > >> Summit taking place at Pragati Maidan from August > 19-24th has asked > >> participating galleries for the second year > running to not display the work > >> of Husain citing fear of attacks. We enclose a > report from the Telegraph > >> which quotes them as saying that the Home Ministry > has offered no assurance > >> of security. > >> > >> We find it shocking that the work of the most > famous artist cannot be shown > >> in the country of his birth, even though he is not > a criminal, nor is his > >> work proscribed or banned. The Art Summit is being > attended by luminaries > >> from around the world, and it is a sad state of > affairs that we, who > >> justifiably pride ourselves as a great democracy, > cannot resist threats from > >> these groups who we see as no less than other > terrorists who threaten our > >> daily lives. > >> > >> We request a meeting with you to apprise you of > the art community's anguish > >> and concern. > >> > >> Yours Sincerely, > >> > >> Vivan Sundaram, Ram Rahman, Parthiv Shah, Shireen > Gandhi, Dadiba Pundole, > >> Geetha Mehra, Gayatri Sinha, Arun Vadhera, Renu > Modi, Ashish Anand, Devika > >> Daulet Singh, Geeta Kapur, Peter Nagy > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people > like you. Check out Yahoo! > >> Buzz. > > > > > > > > -- > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 13:12:15 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:12:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] universal civil code In-Reply-To: <658271.83366.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4581EE671D664247A327BB616D1F5741@tara> <658271.83366.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Malik jee Literacy is an important criterion in looking at such issues, because educated women won't take such acts lightly and will either ask for a public debate or run away with their 'love' to simply escape the treachery, rather than bear the burden of traditions and unfreedoms imposed upon them by the panchayats. However, literacy alone cant' solve the problem. Haryana has literacy around 55% figure for women, which is quite low for a state which has had quite a good rate of economic growth thanks to agricultural activities. What can solve the problem is a public discussion on freedoms of women, and such issues, and for a proper public discussion which can help in ensuring a good outcome, one of the requirements is not just literacy, but education of females (in addition to people being rational, inequalities dont' play a role in public discussion, and people decide by consensus what should be the social norms, all of which are not too easy to enforce or be encouraged, I accept). Political and social participation would also be an important requirement in ensuring that women can play a role, and this can be in various ways. For example, if women as a group themselves decide that they won't vote on vote bank considerations but looking at merit and importance given to them, things can change. However, this also requires public debates and discussion. However, it's good that we are in agreement that women do have rights, and such kind of unfreedoms should not be tolerated in our society. Regards Rakesh From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 13:20:22 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:20:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Absence of Husain at Art Summit In-Reply-To: <864594.77673.qm@web39108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4eab87870908141004g74fba8aeu7a033cb623075d1f@mail.gmail.com> <864594.77673.qm@web39108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908150050x7fd0211ai6c70af4abd3d5e13@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, it is not worthwhile to discuss the issue of Hussain and his paintings and his artistic credibility as the list has whole lot of responses in the archives. It is only, enough to reiterate that personal freedom is not absolute in any society, civilized one, and personal freedom is not licence to hurt others in body, mind and soul. .As long as this sense of responsibility is prevalent, sensibility is intact, the freedom of all is safe in society. As to God, all faiths have the same underlining cornerstone, that God is all powerful, graceful, omni present. But human mind being fickle needs some symbol to concentrate on, to realize the presence of god within. The crucified messenger of God, the walls of divine Kaba, or the images of, from, the shlokas do just that, mind to focus inward for few moments to realize the power of mind, which has God in it. Sabka malik ek hai. Issue is misuse of the concept of faith to garner power to rule others in society., which is of a very short term goal, fails in the long run as the education, health care and essentials of life are not made available, dinity to live and earn is denied, all faiths fail as the oppressed come out of the opium of religiosity.Spiritual mind needs faith in oneself more than faith in the religiosity.Rituals followed without understanding the meaning or significance of such rituals remain only rituals , nothing more . Regards, Rajen. On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 12:39 PM, A.K. Malik wrote: > Dear Mr Salim and Mr Murali, > I am putting a simple question to answer: Had > a similar nudity shown for other faiths,would the person so doing have > survived till today with our governance system? > Regards, > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > --- On Fri, 8/14/09, Murali V wrote: > > > From: Murali V > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Absence of Husain at Art Summit > > To: "Inder Salim" > > Cc: "reader-list" > > Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 10:34 PM > > Well who is the next hindu godess to > > be depicted nude by M F Hussain. > > > > Regards, > > V Murali > > > > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Inder Salim > > wrote: > > > Dear all > > > > > > please click to see > > > > > > > http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_pllHvmNB5GI/Sn7kVWsGT2I/AAAAAAAAAPE/lF_BbjckUgg/s1600-h/sraswati+with+text1.jpg > > > > > > image in solidarity with MF Hussain > > > > > > with love > > > inder salim > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 2:36 PM, ashok kumari > > wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> we are submitting a memo to the home minister on > > Husain not being included > > >> in the Art Summit. Please send your endorsement as > > soon as possible. > > >> > > >> Minister of Home Affairs > > >> Government of India > > >> North Block > > >> New Delhi > > >> > > >> Dear Shri Chidambaram, > > >> > > >> We - artists, gallerists and critics, are > > approaching you on behalf of the > > >> artists community on the long standing issue of > > attempts by Hindu right-wing > > >> groups to effectively impose a ban on exhibiting > > any work by our greatest > > >> living artist, 94 year old MF Husain, through > > threats of assault and > > >> violence. These groups, including the BJP, Bajrang > > Dal, Sri Ram Sena, the > > >> VHP, and the Shiv Sena have led a concerted > > communal campaign against Husain > > >> accusing him of blasphemy since 1996. This > > campaign has taken a violent form > > >> on many occasions and has also led to cases being > > filed against the artist > > >> in courts across India, and has led to Husain's > > self-imposed exile. > > >> > > >> In a landmark judgement dismissing three such > > cases in the Delhi High Court > > >> in 2007, Justice Sanjay Kishen Kaul defended the > > right of freedom of > > >> expression under the Constitution of India. The > > Union Ministry of Culture, > > >> during the previous Art Summit held in 2008 had > > categorically stated “Shri > > >> M. F. Husain is one of the most prominent artist > > of the country and the > > >> absence of his works at the India Art Summit will > > not reflect the true art > > >> scenario of India.” > > >> > > >> We are very disturbed by reports that the upcoming > > International India Art > > >> Summit taking place at Pragati Maidan from August > > 19-24th has asked > > >> participating galleries for the second year > > running to not display the work > > >> of Husain citing fear of attacks. We enclose a > > report from the Telegraph > > >> which quotes them as saying that the Home Ministry > > has offered no assurance > > >> of security. > > >> > > >> We find it shocking that the work of the most > > famous artist cannot be shown > > >> in the country of his birth, even though he is not > > a criminal, nor is his > > >> work proscribed or banned. The Art Summit is being > > attended by luminaries > > >> from around the world, and it is a sad state of > > affairs that we, who > > >> justifiably pride ourselves as a great democracy, > > cannot resist threats from > > >> these groups who we see as no less than other > > terrorists who threaten our > > >> daily lives. > > >> > > >> We request a meeting with you to apprise you of > > the art community's anguish > > >> and concern. > > >> > > >> Yours Sincerely, > > >> > > >> Vivan Sundaram, Ram Rahman, Parthiv Shah, Shireen > > Gandhi, Dadiba Pundole, > > >> Geetha Mehra, Gayatri Sinha, Arun Vadhera, Renu > > Modi, Ashish Anand, Devika > > >> Daulet Singh, Geeta Kapur, Peter Nagy > > >> > > >> ________________________________ > > >> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people > > like you. Check out Yahoo! > > >> Buzz. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- Rajen. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 13:22:48 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:22:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908142338p5fedefd1l5041ba95e42f5321@mail.gmail.com> References: <4eab87870908132156s2cbc9b7fgfdba54d854b125b7@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908140653w231ff75cyda0b88e641472430@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908141018v5e85acacua27cadbc328da538@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908142338p5fedefd1l5041ba95e42f5321@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Murali ji You have conveniently avoided the answer to my query regarding Hindus to speak in a single voice, but for the moment I will ignore that. There was not just one survivor, but there would have been many survivors to this account. The reason I say so is because it's a train which has been attacked, and it's possible passengers of other bogies may have also seen what happened. In addition, it has been said time and again by the people on the train themselves that there were more no. of people travelling in the bogie than the number of those who had reservations. Most of the "karsewaks" are alleged to have been travelling without reservation and thereby making travel for those with reservation inconvenient (leaving aside other accusations on them like fighting with Muslim vendors). And this is not meant to prove that burning of any citizen, Karsewak or not, is right or legitimate. I don't accept burning of them or of any other citizen, whatever may be the provocation. Also, there were others around that train who can also give testimony, like the Station Master and the guard as well as the person sitting in the Attendant Cabin. What about them? Are their testimonies irrelevant? What's more, I never said that the Banerjee Committee report has been accepted. If that were the case, the SC wouldn't have constituted the SIT at all to investigate Godhra. But the claim of the Nanavati Commission has also not been accepted, and the matter stands at that. Next, last but not the least, you state that 59 killed are karsewaks. But the Railway Ministry claims that it hasn't identitifed all the victims, of which most are women and children. So who made this claim that all of them are 'karsewaks'. Where is the proof to prove this/ Even I would like to know what the truth is about Godhra, because I am pretty sure there has been a tale wound around it, which we haven't got to know about. And ironically, you and others always seem to avoid questions rather than answering them. Seems the Right wing learns lessons more efficiently than the Left wing from China. Regards Rakesh From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 13:23:40 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:23:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] universal civil code In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908130415k590a1246g1c5b3499bfbda0b4@mail.gmail.com> <496232.61646.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7271ec560908140700g61178c1cy850033c9afaabe5c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908150053i2ed7eaceic03aa92c1b58a69f@mail.gmail.com> Rakesh, why do you bring in all irrelevant issues like the manthras and namazs as governance is not ruled by any of these.? As to Gayathri , if possible try to understand what the words convey, understand them and then venture out to such irrelevant talks, Regards, Rajen. On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:54 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Rajen ji > > Reciting 'equality' like the Gayatri Mantra is not going to solve the > issue. What is required is a proper public discussion of the values which > these Panchayats are following. > > Anyways, for better understanding of the importance of public discussion, > please read 'Development as Freedom' by Amartya Sen. > > Regards > > Rakesh > -- Rajen. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 13:31:55 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:31:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] universal civil code In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908150053i2ed7eaceic03aa92c1b58a69f@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560908130415k590a1246g1c5b3499bfbda0b4@mail.gmail.com> <496232.61646.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7271ec560908140700g61178c1cy850033c9afaabe5c@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908150053i2ed7eaceic03aa92c1b58a69f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Rajen ji This is the classic example of 'ulta chor kotwal ko daante'. After mixing issues of relevant and irrelevant concern, you now accuse me of the same. Great. By the way, the comparison was because unlike the Gayathri Manta, which may give some peace and calm (it does to me), the chanting of equality wouldn't give it. Seems you are the Principal of 'University of Equality and Governance', the way you keep on reciting it rather than actually even understanding the possible value systems and defects in those as well before talking about them. Regards Rakesh From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 13:32:26 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:32:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: References: <722442.13451.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908131008o1038548ft57cdbd38ce7a1d13@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908132156s2cbc9b7fgfdba54d854b125b7@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908140653w231ff75cyda0b88e641472430@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908150102s5488b5c1p51208b65d70c3903@mail.gmail.com> Rakesh, please go into archives of the list, you will be sure to find the answers with inquisitive intellect.Governance if without fear or favor to any group of individuals on the basis of faith, caste or religion or region. Just as 16 % bite for musims, the other oppressed are also entitled to their bite, and shikhandi doing this talk with a retired tired justice is an insult to intellect of the aam admi. Governance is the business of delivering the good of democracy to all in the society, not on priority of vote banks.Not only those who follow faith of Islam are poor, there are 34 crores below the line of survival, who need the governance to deliver them out of the miseries of life, may be hindus, may be many other castes, many other faiths, may be tribals who are deprived, oppressed and denied right to earn a decent living, life of dignity to earn and the right to self preserve. Then why this "priority" to 16 %.? Regards, Rajen. On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Well Rajen ji > > Good points. But what is this rule of law? You people yourself contest and > start asking for a Uniform Civil Code, thereby stating that the current laws > are inadequate or incorrect to satisfy the current situation, and hence such > a code is required. So also for POTA. > > And as for the implementation, most of the minority appeasement acts are > not against the Constitution of India, whether it be the Sachar Committee > Report or the demand for reconstruction of the Babri Masjid. Therefore, what > exactly do you want? > > You are one of those who state that it's wrong for Manmohan to say that > Muslims have the first right on the resources of the country. He didn't say > that others don't have a right too. But you seem to think that statement > does mean that. What do you want about those kind of statements, can you > tell? And anyways, how does that statement correlate with functioning on the > ground? > > The Haj subsidies are supposedly within the Constitutional directives and > ideas. Do you support that, or do you oppose that? And why? > > Do you support the point that post-Godhra violence was wrong and > unjustifiable, howsoever Godhra as a crime may be? > > You are good at misusing questions to avoid answers. My simple question is > this: what should be the value system upon which the Indian law and > Constitution must be based and what should be the Indian judiciary's values > as well while giving their judgements: Hindutva? Secularism? Islam? > Hinduism? Something else........ > > Which rule of law should prevail: Hindutva rule of Law/Indian Penal > Code/Shariat/Something else? And where would Muslims be placed as a section > of the society in any such rule of law which you are talking about? > > As for "brownie points", I have learnt that from you. So you are my guru in > that, I wholeheartedly acknowledge. Congrats for that, guruji. I would never > be able to keep up with you in this, I agree. > > Regards > > Rakesh > -- Rajen. From shuddha at sarai.net Sat Aug 15 13:30:23 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:30:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Go, Fly A Kite! Message-ID: <08647F77-B9F6-4D74-8902-4BD541B79270@sarai.net> Dear all, Here is the slightly longer, original version of a text by me on Kite Flying that appeare in the latest issue of Outlook, to mark the 15th of August. The version published in Outlook, titled 'Freedom on A String' is at http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?261336 Apologies for cross posting on Kafila best Shuddha ------------------------- Go, Fly a Kite Shuddhabrata Sengupta There is almost nothing about rituals of statehood that appeals to me. The speeches leave me cold and patriotic anthems are the worst, most ponderous form of music ever performed or invented. As for the pomp and circumstance of parades and other solemn but pathetic attempts at grandeur - they only repeat their lessons in how distant the apparatus of the state actually is from the lives of citizens. Typically, my attention, when flags are raised up poles, is less on the flag and more on the sweat on the brow of the man doing most of the actual hoisting. Because flags, like nations, get stuck in their destinies, and sometimes have to be tugged at vigorously to open and flap about, or let loose their meagre shower of yesterday's desiccated flower petals. The palpable anxiety of the hoister (who is worried about what might get written into his confidential report if the string snaps, or the flag stay’s tied up) and the thinly masked frustration on the visage of the attendant dignitary, (be they the principal of a school or the president of a republic ) who wants it all over and done with as quickly as possible, are the two performances that I find most moving on these moments. Apart, that is, from the sporadic defecations of ceremonial cavalry horses, caparisoned elephants and aloof camels brought out to lend the parade of the moment a touch of bio-diversity. Somehow, they ring truer than most other attempts to mark such occasions. Republic Day, with its pornography of ordnance, enormous waste of public money and tacky tableaux is probably the worst offender, but Independence Day, with its schoolchildren bused out to the Red Fort in Delhi and made to suffer the humiliation of security checks at the crack of a humid dawn, doesn't rank far behind. They, (the schoolchildren at Red Fort) lose a well-earned holiday, and nowadays, the rest of India gets a pious homily from behind bullet-proof glass. Rather than being an occasion for quiet, sober and perhaps personal reflection on what liberty might mean (especially when so many subjects of this republic are denied its substance) and whether it really needs to come all dressed up in the masquerade of a hollow state ritual, Independence Day has become an empty vessel for an increasingly narcissistic commemoration of what it means to simply 'be' Indian, as if that were of any real consequence. Meanwhile, the violence that marked partition, co-incident with 'Independence', goes un-mourned in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. The bizarre continuities, ranging from law and governance to the arcana of state ceremonials, between colonialism and its posthumous progeny - republican nationhood, remain un-reflected upon. What we get instead is an annual faux carnival of top-ten lists to do with an invented 'Indian-ness' dished out by magazines and television decked out in tri-colour bad taste. But there is something about the fifteenth of August that still means a lot to me, and that isn't about flying flags. It's about flying kites. The fifteenth of August, as anyone growing up in North India ought to know, is really all about manja and pench, about letting loose a full throated cry 'bho-katta', when an airborne kite snaps from its string in the sky, and the mad run and skirmish for its capture that follows before it hits the earth. Its about decoding a persons passions from the colours they choose for their kites, about learning to test the strength of paper and to sense the wind by licking your finger. These, and other elementary lessons in areodynamics are still reasons to look forward to the fifteenth of August each year. Perhaps it's a throwback to the boyhood thrill of holding a taut kite- string in the precarious rooftops and bylanes of a ‘refuzee’ colony in west Delhi, head cocked up, eyes locked in a steadfast gaze intent on scanning the clouded August sky, tracking distant, tiny but majestic diamonds of colour as the kites danced to the wind. Their flight taught me more about ‘attaining liberty’ and their spiralling descent more about ‘losing it’ than all the civics lessons on the meaning and significance of ‘Independence Day’ ever could. Anand Bakshi, in writing the lyrics for the film Kati Patang, (Drifting Kite) did not know that he had, perhaps unwittingly gifted us with the one of the most pithy ways of thinking about the destiny of nationhood and nationalism, that at least I know about. As the song goes, 'Na koi umang hai, na koi tarang hai', - there is neither a surge, nor a wave. Ships of state adrift in still, motionless waters, their flags just about fluttering in a spent tailwind, are to me like so many kati patang, drifting kites; neither surge, nor wave, and certainly no pious ritual, can lift them out of their torpor. What can one do, in such circumstances, but heed the call of Mary Poppins and her friends, Mr. Banks and Bert, and simply, 'go fly a kite'. "With tuppence for paper and strings You can have your own set of wings With your feet on the ground You're a bird in a flight With your fist holding tight To the string of your kite Oh, oh, oh! Let's go fly a kite Up to the highest height! Let's go fly a kite and send it soaring Up through the atmosphere Up where the air is clear Oh, let's go fly a kite!' Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 15 13:41:34 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 01:11:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Grants for Educational Infrastructure and Facilities Message-ID: <842620.35299.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Ms Parekh,               I had an opportunity to go thr the link and tumbled upon the link on Maulana Azad Education Foundation which is sponsoring the Scholarships to Girl Students belonging to minorities.I have gone thr the achievements of the Foundation which is doing a good job.The Foundation is a Society controlled by the Ministry of Minority Affairs.Some of my observations are: 1. The Foundation has been in existence since 1989 almost 20 years back. 2. The Foundation lists aims and objects for which this Foundation is established,inter alia, as i) to remove educational backwardness, and create awareness about the national ideals of JUSTICE, LIBERTY, EQUALITY AND FRATERNITY AND DEMOCRACY, SECULARISM and SOCIALISM; ii) to formulate and implement educational schemes and plans for the benefit of the educationally backward minorities in particular and weaker sections in general. 3.Scholarship allocation is only to Muslims,Christians,Sikhs,Buddhists and Parsis as per census of 2001. 4.All the nominated members are Muslims from various fields. Now my curosity: a) The Govt has so far given a Corpus of Rs 331.66 Crores to the Foundation, why the Foundation has not been able to find even a single GIRL belonging to the weaker sections in general in the last 20 years to receive the scholarship. (aims and object ii above) b) Why the Foundation has not been able to find even a single Qualified member for Nomination from minority other than Muslims like Christian,Sikh,Buddhist,Parsi etc. Any Comments please.I know the other way is to get info by RTI application. Regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Fri, 8/14/09, Chandni Parekh wrote: > From: Chandni Parekh > Subject: [Reader-list] Grants for Educational Infrastructure and Facilities > To: reader-list at sarai.net > Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 9:18 AM > **Financial assistance is being > offered to improve educational > infrastructure and facilities in India. More here: http://bit.ly/4KRFk > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 13:44:38 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:44:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908150102s5488b5c1p51208b65d70c3903@mail.gmail.com> References: <4eab87870908131008o1038548ft57cdbd38ce7a1d13@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908132156s2cbc9b7fgfdba54d854b125b7@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908140653w231ff75cyda0b88e641472430@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908150102s5488b5c1p51208b65d70c3903@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Rajen ji How would you feel if I were to call you a eunuch or Shikhandi? A person has a name and that name must be taken with respect. If you don't have that basic respect, you should seriously consider stopping posting of your views at all. He is Manmohan Singh, and while I dont' agree with many of his views and policies, the name deserves a respect and it should be given. There is nothing wrong with vote-bank politics as long as it doesn't interfere with freedoms of an individual in any way. If Muslims vote for a particular party in order to get safety of life, good education facilities and better health care facilities, they have the right to do so. More importantly, governance must be based on providing freedoms for all, and if equality can help in securing that freedom, so be it. However, for people like you, infringement on other's freedoms is ok if it is important for the survival of the state. You would be supporting those who attack 'azadi' agitations in Kashmir because it's against the state, even though the fight for 'azadi' boils down to freedoms of individuals who feel they have been terrorized and victimized. As for priority to 16%, correct that figure. It's 13.4% as per 2001 census, and it will reach 17% at most by 2101 census (100 years from 2001). So all those worrying about Muslim demographics can sleep well. And yes, when we talk about Muslims, it's about three kinds of discrimination: a) Discrimination which only Muslims face (because of their religion) b) Discrimination which Muslims face because of their caste (that faced by Dalit Muslims, and this is similar mostly to what Dalits face) c) Discrimination on class affiliations (poor Muslims and poor Hindus both suffer the same) The idea is to stop the first kind of discrimination, though it is linked in some measure to the second and third kind of discriminations as well. And one statement need not even reflect the priority of the govt. as well. The govt makes all the right-noises about environment policy and climate change, but does any of it actually get reflected on the ground? The govt made many noises about the nuclear deal, but is any electricity production on the way due to nuclear fuel? How much time it would take, has anybody even analyzed or tried to find out? And as for your argument, I am putting forth some of the data which people must see in order to find out the progress of Muslims in India. This is being put in the next mail. Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 13:48:25 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:48:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Go, Fly A Kite! In-Reply-To: <08647F77-B9F6-4D74-8902-4BD541B79270@sarai.net> References: <08647F77-B9F6-4D74-8902-4BD541B79270@sarai.net> Message-ID: Dear Shuddha A very good article. I was thrilled yesterday when I read Outlook, and I liked it. Would like to read more from you on various other issues, (not on history of Kashmir and the like, but say on contemporary issues). Hope to see more of your articles in the public domain. Keep writing. Regards Rakesh From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 13:55:26 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:55:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn In-Reply-To: References: <341380d00908130019m1090d9edkbc109fe97006049f@mail.gmail.com> <823583.97663.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908131013n5c15f1e2o693bca9c5d18636e@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908140657l754ee6e3u68bcb8cb848a1791@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908150125p1fbc0c9es65b5a36d7f77dade@mail.gmail.com> Rakesh, boycott by what......? The thoughts if are good, worth thinking over, the source does not matter, as the source of such thoughts will eventually go out of the material world.Galeleo was blinded by custodians of faith, his thought remained, further explained by Keplar and many more thoughts have come to understand the subjective and objective spheres of life. Boycott in society affects only the egos and not the thoughts as they have their own intrinsic values, which all of us evaluate, best to our capacities to understand and appreciate them. If the thoughts are of little values, they sink by their own weight. You are a free citizen, if you wish to boycott, it is your right, albeit without violent words and actions,but being in society, such boycott does not work, caste boycotts have now given way to cruel violence of enforcing such acts, in due course they also will get covered by the system of rule of laws as awareness grows. Few months before this post, some had gumption to boycott some ids from the list for alleged fanatic hindu views, but had no conviction nor the courage to boycott rabid muslim views of the ids.! That is our rule of laws and secularism at work. Regards, Rajen. On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 8:01 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Rajen jee. We are not debating to win. We are debating and discussing to > understand issues which have a subjective feature to it. These are not > objective things but things which have value systems attached to them, > whether it be yours or mine. > > As for you, my question is same as that for Murali jee. When someone > boycotts you, your importance is gone, for you can only continue by pleading > to a sense of victimization. But when you or someone of same belief declares > the same call, you don't have a word to say about it. Why? May I know that? > > > -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 13:58:41 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:58:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] universal civil code In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908130415k590a1246g1c5b3499bfbda0b4@mail.gmail.com> <496232.61646.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7271ec560908140700g61178c1cy850033c9afaabe5c@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908150053i2ed7eaceic03aa92c1b58a69f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908150128g6d65d16fl4089b306ebada204@mail.gmail.com> Rakesh, Come on, do not prove to be a Xerox machine of thoughts...........! Regards, Rajen. On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 1:31 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Rajen ji > > This is the classic example of 'ulta chor kotwal ko daante'. After mixing > issues of relevant and irrelevant concern, you now accuse me of the same. > Great. > > By the way, the comparison was because unlike the Gayathri Manta, which may > give some peace and calm (it does to me), the chanting of equality wouldn't > give it. > > Seems you are the Principal of 'University of Equality and Governance', the > way you keep on reciting it rather than actually even understanding the > possible value systems and defects in those as well before talking about > them. > > Regards > > Rakesh > -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 14:00:35 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:00:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Grants for Educational Infrastructure and Facilities In-Reply-To: <842620.35299.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <842620.35299.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908150130pc671079l2b2943f390c4b062@mail.gmail.com> Secular in practice............! the Trust. On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 1:41 PM, A.K. Malik wrote: > Hi Ms Parekh, > I had an opportunity to go thr the link and tumbled upon the > link on Maulana Azad Education Foundation which is sponsoring the > Scholarships to Girl Students belonging to minorities.I have gone thr the > achievements of the Foundation which is doing a good job.The Foundation is a > Society controlled by the Ministry of Minority Affairs.Some of my > observations are: > 1. The Foundation has been in existence since 1989 almost 20 years back. > > 2. The Foundation lists aims and objects for which this Foundation is > established,inter alia, as > i) to remove educational backwardness, and create awareness about > the national ideals of JUSTICE, LIBERTY, EQUALITY AND FRATERNITY AND > DEMOCRACY, SECULARISM and SOCIALISM; > ii) to formulate and implement educational schemes and plans for the > benefit of the educationally backward minorities in particular and weaker > sections in general. > > 3.Scholarship allocation is only to Muslims,Christians,Sikhs,Buddhists and > Parsis as per census of 2001. > > 4.All the nominated members are Muslims from various fields. > > Now my curosity: > a) The Govt has so far given a Corpus of Rs 331.66 Crores to the > Foundation, why the Foundation has not been able to find even a single GIRL > belonging to the weaker sections in general in the last 20 years to receive > the scholarship. > (aims and object ii above) > b) Why the Foundation has not been able to find even a single Qualified > member for Nomination from minority other than Muslims like > Christian,Sikh,Buddhist,Parsi etc. > Any Comments please.I know the other way is to get info by RTI application. > Regards, > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > --- On Fri, 8/14/09, Chandni Parekh wrote: > > > From: Chandni Parekh > > Subject: [Reader-list] Grants for Educational Infrastructure and > Facilities > > To: reader-list at sarai.net > > Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 9:18 AM > > **Financial assistance is being > > offered to improve educational > > infrastructure and facilities in India. More here: http://bit.ly/4KRFk > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 14:05:03 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:05:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: References: <4eab87870908132156s2cbc9b7fgfdba54d854b125b7@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908140653w231ff75cyda0b88e641472430@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908150102s5488b5c1p51208b65d70c3903@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908150135h57e0a0ebkf7c36ec8eab88ab7@mail.gmail.com> Rakesh, why are you concerned if I feel that your beloved one is shikhandi, now they too have rights, equality before laws. And you have not been very noble in your posts in addressing others in the list, so stop this holier than thou ideologues., please. Regards, Rajen. On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 1:44 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Rajen ji > > How would you feel if I were to call you a eunuch or Shikhandi? A person > has a name and that name must be taken with respect. If you don't have that > basic respect, you should seriously consider stopping posting of your views > at all. He is Manmohan Singh, and while I dont' agree with many of his views > and policies, the name deserves a respect and it should be given. > > There is nothing wrong with vote-bank politics as long as it doesn't > interfere with freedoms of an individual in any way. If Muslims vote for a > particular party in order to get safety of life, good education facilities > and better health care facilities, they have the right to do so. More > importantly, governance must be based on providing freedoms for all, and if > equality can help in securing that freedom, so be it. > > However, for people like you, infringement on other's freedoms is ok if it > is important for the survival of the state. You would be supporting those > who attack 'azadi' agitations in Kashmir because it's against the state, > even though the fight for 'azadi' boils down to freedoms of individuals who > feel they have been terrorized and victimized. > > As for priority to 16%, correct that figure. It's 13.4% as per 2001 census, > and it will reach 17% at most by 2101 census (100 years from 2001). So all > those worrying about Muslim demographics can sleep well. > > And yes, when we talk about Muslims, it's about three kinds of > discrimination: > > a) Discrimination which only Muslims face (because of their religion) > b) Discrimination which Muslims face because of their caste (that faced by > Dalit Muslims, and this is similar mostly to what Dalits face) > c) Discrimination on class affiliations (poor Muslims and poor Hindus both > suffer the same) > > The idea is to stop the first kind of discrimination, though it is linked > in some measure to the second and third kind of discriminations as well. And > one statement need not even reflect the priority of the govt. as well. The > govt makes all the right-noises about environment policy and climate change, > but does any of it actually get reflected on the ground? The govt made many > noises about the nuclear deal, but is any electricity production on the way > due to nuclear fuel? How much time it would take, has anybody even analyzed > or tried to find out? > > And as for your argument, I am putting forth some of the data which people > must see in order to find out the progress of Muslims in India. > > This is being put in the next mail. > > Regards > > Rakesh > -- Rajen. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 15:13:57 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 15:13:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908150135h57e0a0ebkf7c36ec8eab88ab7@mail.gmail.com> References: <4eab87870908132156s2cbc9b7fgfdba54d854b125b7@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908140653w231ff75cyda0b88e641472430@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908150102s5488b5c1p51208b65d70c3903@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908150135h57e0a0ebkf7c36ec8eab88ab7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Professor Rajen ji I don't have a holier than thou attitude, because I think you deserved that Professor tag. Seriously, now you should teach in a university rather than simply spreading your views among fewer people here. What say? By the way, professors, I experienced, are quite open to views from other sources even if it's contrary to their own beliefs, and try to look at those views from different perspectives as well. But the professor to whom I address this seems to be an odd one out. So I will think now before addressing exceptional professors, especially of the kind who have an utter disregard for people's issues. As for my beloved being Shikhandi, at least that Shikhandi is much better than your Modi and Advani who don't have the guts to move without any NSG around them, and yet talk about masculinity and 'dum'. (Remember Elections 2009 Sir. At least that Shikhandi was giving Chicken Biryani to 'terrorists' as per your vocabulary and ideas (as you yourself stated once on this forum), your heroes chickened away at the frightening prospect of being laid bare by the same Shikhandi). Anyways, you are the type who run away when attacked, as I said, like China, to avoid controversies. Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 15:17:36 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 15:17:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] universal civil code In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908150128g6d65d16fl4089b306ebada204@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560908130415k590a1246g1c5b3499bfbda0b4@mail.gmail.com> <496232.61646.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7271ec560908140700g61178c1cy850033c9afaabe5c@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908150053i2ed7eaceic03aa92c1b58a69f@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908150128g6d65d16fl4089b306ebada204@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Professor Rajen ji Oh really!! Thanks. At least it's much better than being the Xerox Copy of RSS's thoughts only, like you. And no more replies, so you can keep posting as much as you like. Regards (from a non-learning student) Rakesh From jeebesh at sarai.net Sat Aug 15 15:27:32 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 15:27:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Important Essay Message-ID: <0B9B5AD3-153B-4769-A1A5-EA059BE3359D@sarai.net> [1] See Susan K Sell, The Global IP Upward Ratchet, Anti- counterfeiting and Piracy Enforcement Efforts: The State of Play. Aavailable at http://www.iqsensato.org/wp-content/uploads/Sell_IP_Enforcement_State_of_Play-OPs_1_June_2008.pdf From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 15:39:22 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 15:39:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Imran Hashmi takes a U turn In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908150125p1fbc0c9es65b5a36d7f77dade@mail.gmail.com> References: <341380d00908130019m1090d9edkbc109fe97006049f@mail.gmail.com> <823583.97663.qm@web39106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908131013n5c15f1e2o693bca9c5d18636e@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908140657l754ee6e3u68bcb8cb848a1791@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908150125p1fbc0c9es65b5a36d7f77dade@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Professor Rajen ji Can you kindly inform the forum about those rabid Muslims who are posting on this forum, so that we can discuss about them as well? It would be kind of you personally to address this issue as well. Also, boycott is not necessarily about egos but about injustice and lack of freedoms as well. Gandhi asked for boycott of clothes to indicate the injustice of the British Raj which they unleash on the people. And awareness is not a necessary solution for problem solving. It's not that women of the Khap panchayats of Haryana are not aware of their rights necessarily (though lack of education can be a factor in that direction, as I have pointed out), or about importance of women's agency. It's the social constraint which restricts them as well, and awareness about laws is not going to help it, though awareness of laws is a very important requirement in itself as well as for its usage. What is required therefore, as I said, is a sense of public discussion about issues. Murali ji ran away by saying that public discussion will lead to chaos. My reply back is that who gave the right to few people to decide that they will decide for others? The only time this happened was when the Constitution of India was being decided, and those few decided that everybody has the right to decide just like them. And they did give that right to everybody to amend the Constitution if they felt so. I can't be a party to the infringing of rights of individuals, when those rights are justifiable. Therefore, rather than laws and just awareness, what we require is a public debate on issues to reach a social consensus. And most of us have consensus on issues, except that on solutions that consensus is not there. I agree on that, but that does not mean we shouldn't discuss just because it will lead to chaos or not. After all, that chaos would be 100 times better than misgoverning of the govt, or infringement of rights of individuals. And even that chaos is not supposed to take place, because when i mean public discussion, implicit in it are the assumptions that a proper environment needs to be created for discussions where people put forth their arguments and decisions are taken on a rational basis, people have access to all information on the concerned subject, and most importantly, they are given the right to express their views. That has now been made explicit.And I know saying this is easy, but not implementing it. But then, (as my mother says)the only thing easy in this world is to say anything at will (provided others can't hear). Even earning money has its hardships, and here we are talking about political and social participation. Of course it will involve some hardships and efforts, and we shouldn't shy away from it. And finally, while I don't personally like the RSS's views, that does not mean I ask for a ban on it. I oppose the arguments posted by members who support its' views, but still feel they should be given a chance to speak. I still feel Vedavati jee should not have been banned because banning him (if it's a her I am sorry, for I dont' know Vedavati's gender), is not the solution. It's like boycotting individuals, who then go on and then become dangerous for the society as well. While individuals have a right to withdraw from the society, accepting the right for someone to put forward his/her views is important. Therefore, while I strongly oppose the arguments for Hindu nationalism as proposed by the Sangh, I dont' want a ban on it. Neither do I think a ban is required on SIMI, if it's just involved in the spreading of political ideology. So unfortunately, members of this forum have to bear my replies to your comments, and so too you, even though their freedom I feel is being hit in the process. My request is to them to keep me as spam if I disturb them, and I apologize for the same. But I can't bear to see useless arguments being dished out. Regards Rakesh From jeebesh at sarai.net Sat Aug 15 15:53:23 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 15:53:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] a question? Message-ID: dear All, Scanning newspapers around the national identification card one remark struck me as a bit odd. A state spokesman said that the card is not a guarantee for citizenship. Could anyone in the list help me understand this remark. warmly jeebesh PS: was surprised more by this remark, as the main reason for the card that is being given from PM downwards is that the card is for the poor or "people's card". (something like an earlier campaign around the maruti cars.) From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 15:57:40 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 15:57:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908140653w231ff75cyda0b88e641472430@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908150102s5488b5c1p51208b65d70c3903@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908150135h57e0a0ebkf7c36ec8eab88ab7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear all I have not been able to post the data on the Sarai forum for religious composition and otherwise because the reader list doesn't accept attachments, and also because the text limit exceeds the 100 KB limit, which I think is the upper one for any postings. Hence, I urge people to read the Appendices of the Sachar Committee Report which can be useful in getting the required data. The data has been obtained from govt sources and is reliable, according to those who work with govt data. Regards Rakesh From murali.chalam at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 16:03:18 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:03:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Absence of Husain at Art Summit In-Reply-To: <47e122a70908141041w4885a14cpb2f71c1a96341244@mail.gmail.com> References: <82285.22042.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <47e122a70908140631w10cdf369v3328f52b72c9060@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908141004g74fba8aeu7a033cb623075d1f@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70908141028p14e316b6nccfaf0e0867805cc@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908141034g49e11d5gac28a7867770dbac@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70908141041w4885a14cpb2f71c1a96341244@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908150333i7620c240m385f7c0166c8668f@mail.gmail.com> Dear Mr. Inder Salim, Why restrict freedom of expression to artists alone? To a serial killer also it is a freedom of expression. Why do we have a censor board for films? Regards, V Murali On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 11:11 PM, Inder Salim wrote: > Dear Murali ji > > fine, if you want to a Hindu face of Muslim Fundamentalism, fine, > i wont touch you, as both are  more dangerous than swine flue to > Freedom of Expression. > > about suggesting what Artists should do or what they should not. > what do you think if they listen to each and every body about their > inner drives to choose their subject matters. > will there  be art and poetry. > > imagine, Ghalib composing his verses after listening to a Maulana ji > at the mosque > > let us laugh, and let the artistic freedom thrive in a society which > is already reeling under threat from various other factors. > > with love > is > > > > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 11:04 PM, Murali V wrote: >> Fine. I hope you would recall the Danish cartoon  and its aftermath. >> Then why doesnt M F Hussain represent similar artistic thoughts to his >> faith. >> >> Regards, >> V Murali >> >> On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 10:58 PM, Inder Salim wrote: >>> well, we are told to believe ( in Hinduism as well ) that God is one, >>> has no gender, colour  texuture or name, so no question depiting GOD >>> with or without garments >>> >>> and if  God exists in multiples, in all the faces of all the human >>> beings, animals, plants, mountains seas, air and sunlight, then the >>> question of depicting this way or that does alter very little since >>> the surface is vast and endless. >>> >>> Art is fun, and strangely liberates those who look into eye of it >>> constatnly. that is another matter, which needs a cool and patient >>> listening.......... But, right now >>> >>> let us re-read what  Justice  Sanjay Kishan. Kaul said is his land >>> mark2007 judgement in support of freedom of expresion,  thus >>> exonarating  Artist MF Hussain from the so called indecent deptiction >>> of Hindu Goddess,  and simultaneously questioined the Right Wing Hindu >>> intolarant and ingnorant face of our polity, who have nothing but an >>> axe to grind. >>> >>> with love >>> is >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Murali V wrote: >>>> Well who is the next hindu godess to be depicted nude by M F Hussain. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> V Murali >>>> >>>> On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Inder Salim wrote: >>>>> Dear all >>>>> >>>>> please click to see >>>>> >>>>> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_pllHvmNB5GI/Sn7kVWsGT2I/AAAAAAAAAPE/lF_BbjckUgg/s1600-h/sraswati+with+text1.jpg >>>>> >>>>> image in solidarity with MF Hussain >>>>> >>>>> with love >>>>> inder salim >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 2:36 PM, ashok kumari wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> we are submitting a memo to the home minister on Husain not being included >>>>>> in the Art Summit. Please send your endorsement as soon as possible. >>>>>> >>>>>> Minister of Home Affairs >>>>>> Government of India >>>>>> North Block >>>>>> New Delhi >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear Shri Chidambaram, >>>>>> >>>>>> We - artists, gallerists and critics, are approaching you on behalf of the >>>>>> artists community on the long standing issue of attempts by Hindu right-wing >>>>>> groups to effectively impose a ban on exhibiting any work by our greatest >>>>>> living artist, 94 year old MF Husain, through threats of assault and >>>>>> violence. These groups, including the BJP, Bajrang Dal, Sri Ram Sena, the >>>>>> VHP, and the Shiv Sena have led a concerted communal campaign against Husain >>>>>> accusing him of blasphemy since 1996. This campaign has taken a violent form >>>>>> on many occasions and has also led to cases being filed against the artist >>>>>> in courts across India, and has led to Husain's self-imposed exile. >>>>>> >>>>>> In a landmark judgement dismissing three such cases in the Delhi High Court >>>>>> in 2007, Justice Sanjay Kishen Kaul defended the right of freedom of >>>>>> expression under the Constitution of India. The Union Ministry of Culture, >>>>>> during the previous Art Summit held in 2008 had categorically stated “Shri >>>>>> M. F. Husain is one of the most prominent artist of the country and the >>>>>> absence of his works at the India Art Summit will not reflect the true art >>>>>> scenario of India.” >>>>>> >>>>>> We are very disturbed by reports that the upcoming International India Art >>>>>> Summit taking place at Pragati Maidan from August 19-24th has asked >>>>>> participating galleries for the second year running to not display the work >>>>>> of Husain citing fear of attacks. We enclose a report from the Telegraph >>>>>> which quotes them as saying that the Home Ministry has offered no assurance >>>>>> of security. >>>>>> >>>>>> We find it shocking that the work of the most famous artist cannot be shown >>>>>> in the country of his birth, even though he is not a criminal, nor is his >>>>>> work proscribed or banned. The Art Summit is being attended by luminaries >>>>>> from around the world, and it is a sad state of affairs that we, who >>>>>> justifiably pride ourselves as a great democracy, cannot resist threats from >>>>>> these groups who we see as no less than other terrorists who threaten our >>>>>> daily lives. >>>>>> >>>>>> We request a meeting with you to apprise you of the art community's anguish >>>>>> and concern. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yours Sincerely, >>>>>> >>>>>> Vivan Sundaram, Ram Rahman, Parthiv Shah, Shireen Gandhi, Dadiba Pundole, >>>>>> Geetha Mehra, Gayatri Sinha, Arun Vadhera, Renu Modi, Ashish Anand, Devika >>>>>> Daulet Singh, Geeta Kapur, Peter Nagy >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! >>>>>> Buzz. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> _________________________________________ >>>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >>>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From murali.chalam at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 16:08:44 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:08:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908140653w231ff75cyda0b88e641472430@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908150102s5488b5c1p51208b65d70c3903@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908150135h57e0a0ebkf7c36ec8eab88ab7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908150338x5743a205k60e4d6d98585cfa3@mail.gmail.com> Sachar committee report ???? On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 3:57 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear all > > I have not been able to post the data on the Sarai forum for religious > composition and otherwise because the reader list doesn't accept > attachments, and also because the text limit exceeds the 100 KB limit, which > I think is the upper one for any postings. Hence, I urge people to read the > Appendices of the Sachar Committee Report which can be useful in getting the > required data. The data has been obtained from govt sources and is reliable, > according to those who work with govt data. > > Regards > > Rakesh > From rohitrellan at aol.in Sat Aug 15 16:08:46 2009 From: rohitrellan at aol.in (rohitrellan at aol.in) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 06:38:46 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Understanding Cinema - Film course at the Habitat Centre - Concept Note In-Reply-To: <8CBEBAB39198668-4E0-218E@webmail-db15.sysops.aol.com> References: <39c370bf0908150131t9caacdenb0fde38e0efeab66@mail.gmail.com> <8CBEBAB39198668-4E0-218E@webmail-db15.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CBEBABB3A70784-4E0-2191@webmail-db15.sysops.aol.com> Dear members,    A course must for professionals/students/ aspiring artists who want to learn and enrich there knowledge about the cinema.    Do let us know in case you would like to know anything more on the subject course .    Best wishes ,    - Rohit  -------------------------------------  Rohit Rellan  rohitrellan at aol.in  New Delhi     -----Original Message-----  From: ira bhaskar  To: rohitrellan at aol.in  Sent: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 2:01 pm  Subject: Understanding Cinema - Film course at the Habitat Centre - Concept Note    Dear Rohit,    Here is the announcement for our regular course on cinema at the Habitat Centre. Please publicize this on your various lists. Hopefully this message will help those who want to benefit for this introductory course.    Best wishes,  Ira    ________________________________________________________________________ You are invited to Get a Free AOL Email ID. - http://webmail.aol.in From murali.chalam at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 16:11:30 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:11:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908140653w231ff75cyda0b88e641472430@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908150102s5488b5c1p51208b65d70c3903@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908150135h57e0a0ebkf7c36ec8eab88ab7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908150341g586e4064sa3fa414618c7f674@mail.gmail.com> It is better to face the guns of an enemy and die a martyr than to die at the hands of a terroists. Regards, V Muerali On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Professor Rajen ji > > I don't have a holier than thou attitude, because I think you deserved that > Professor tag. Seriously, now you should teach in a university rather than > simply spreading your views among fewer people here. What say? > > By the way, professors, I experienced, are quite open to views from other > sources even if it's contrary to their own beliefs, and try to look at those > views from different perspectives as well. But the professor to whom I > address this seems to be an odd one out. So I will think now before > addressing exceptional professors, especially of the kind who have an utter > disregard for people's issues. > > As for my beloved being Shikhandi, at least that Shikhandi is much better > than your Modi and Advani who don't have the guts to move without any NSG > around them, and yet talk about masculinity and 'dum'. (Remember Elections > 2009 Sir. At least that Shikhandi was giving Chicken Biryani to 'terrorists' > as per your vocabulary and ideas (as you yourself stated once on this > forum), your heroes chickened away at the frightening prospect of being laid > bare by the same Shikhandi). Anyways, you are the type who run away when > attacked, as I said, like China, to avoid controversies. > > > Regards > > Rakesh > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 16:15:07 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:15:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Absence of Husain at Art Summit In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908150333i7620c240m385f7c0166c8668f@mail.gmail.com> References: <82285.22042.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <47e122a70908140631w10cdf369v3328f52b72c9060@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908141004g74fba8aeu7a033cb623075d1f@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70908141028p14e316b6nccfaf0e0867805cc@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908141034g49e11d5gac28a7867770dbac@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70908141041w4885a14cpb2f71c1a96341244@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150333i7620c240m385f7c0166c8668f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Murali ji Let me answer some of the questions you and Mr. Rajen have asked or raised: 1) First of all, it's perfectly legitimate according to me, at a personal level, if any God or Prophet is painted nude, whether it be Christ, Mohammed, Ram, Shiva, Durga or anybody else. The reason for my argument is simple. When you stop or restrict someone from making a painting, it's a restriction on the freedom of a person from painting something. And more importantly, assuming the nude painting is made, it's not a restriction or infringement on the freedom of someone who has been depicted in the painting, as far as Gods or Prophets are concerned. This is important to note, because in case of say someone's mother or wife being painted nude, it could be a kind of restriction or infringement because it may depict someone in a certain manner. This is also why MMS clippings of heroines or girls is strictly abhorred. 2) The way a person takes such issues is for him/her to decide. The Gods are not subjected to unfreedom. And as far as the person is concerned, if the person feels that such a painting is not right form of depiction of his/her beloved Lord, he/she has a right to protest (though that does not mean indulging in violence, which I believe all of us will agree on). Similarly, the person has the freedom of seeing or not seeing such paintings, and therefore that right has also not been usurped upon. Therefore, again this means that people have the right to depict Gods in the way they wish to. And those who don't like it equally have a right to protest. But that shouldn't mean indulging in violence. So the protests against Danish cartoons, as also that against Hussain's paintings are ok, (and even those against paintings made in MSU) are fine, with me, as long as no violence takes place. In all the three cases, it has taken place leading to beating up of the student to burning of embassies, which should not be tolerated in a civilized society. So, therefore if someone feels he/she is offended by such paintings, either ignore them or protest against them subject to conditionality of non-violence, and thereby ensure you don't usurp the freedom of others. Is that so difficult to accept? Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 16:17:22 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:17:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908150341g586e4064sa3fa414618c7f674@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560908140653w231ff75cyda0b88e641472430@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908150102s5488b5c1p51208b65d70c3903@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908150135h57e0a0ebkf7c36ec8eab88ab7@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150341g586e4064sa3fa414618c7f674@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Murali ji Aren't terrorists too 'enemies'? Was Karkare a martyr or not? And as for Sachar committee report, read the report first before making any conclusions. Anyways, I asked for people to look at appendices, not read the contents of the report. The appendices contain data collected from different govt. sources. That's all. It's for people to derive their conclusions by reading and understanding the data. Regards Rakesh From murali.chalam at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 16:30:42 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:30:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908140653w231ff75cyda0b88e641472430@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908150102s5488b5c1p51208b65d70c3903@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908150135h57e0a0ebkf7c36ec8eab88ab7@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150341g586e4064sa3fa414618c7f674@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908150400l2d427d12k959eb800707aa4e@mail.gmail.com> I had also sent you a link on the changing demography in India. I stand corrected. Well I should have stated a murderer. If a rational analysis is done on the demographic classification of muslims, the people in the A and B class cities opt for formal education, while in C class villages the Madrasas are the prime education centers. Regards, V Murali On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Murali ji > > Aren't terrorists too 'enemies'? Was Karkare a martyr or not? > > And as for Sachar committee report, read the report first before making any > conclusions. Anyways, I asked for people to look at appendices, not read the > contents of the report. The appendices contain data collected from different > govt. sources. That's all. It's for people to derive their conclusions by > reading and understanding the data. > > Regards > > Rakesh > From murali.chalam at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 16:33:16 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:33:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Absence of Husain at Art Summit In-Reply-To: References: <82285.22042.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <47e122a70908140631w10cdf369v3328f52b72c9060@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908141004g74fba8aeu7a033cb623075d1f@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70908141028p14e316b6nccfaf0e0867805cc@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908141034g49e11d5gac28a7867770dbac@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70908141041w4885a14cpb2f71c1a96341244@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150333i7620c240m385f7c0166c8668f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908150403p44c8c3e0gb8b18bffa79fb9f2@mail.gmail.com> The director of any film would want to depict his creativity in an unshackled manner, but his/hers creativity sometimes goes to the scissors of the censor board. Regards, V Murali On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 4:15 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Murali ji > > Let me answer some of the questions you and Mr. Rajen have asked or raised: > > 1) First of all, it's perfectly legitimate according to me, at a personal > level, if any God or Prophet is painted nude, whether it be Christ, > Mohammed, Ram, Shiva, Durga or anybody else. The reason for my argument is > simple. When you stop or restrict someone from making a painting, it's a > restriction on the freedom of a person from painting something. And more > importantly, assuming the nude painting is made, it's not a restriction or > infringement on the freedom of someone who has been depicted in the > painting, as far as Gods or Prophets are concerned. > > This is important to note, because in case of say someone's mother or wife > being painted nude, it could be a kind of restriction or infringement > because it may depict someone in a certain manner. This is also why MMS > clippings of heroines or girls is strictly abhorred. > > 2) The way a person takes such issues is for him/her to decide. The Gods are > not subjected to unfreedom. And as far as the person is concerned, if the > person feels that such a painting is not right form of depiction of his/her > beloved Lord, he/she has a right to protest (though that does not mean > indulging in violence, which I believe all of us will agree on). Similarly, > the person has the freedom of seeing or not seeing such paintings, and > therefore that right has also not been usurped upon. > > Therefore, again this means that people have the right to depict Gods in the > way they wish to. And those who don't like it equally have a right to > protest. But that shouldn't mean indulging in violence. So the protests > against Danish cartoons, as also that against Hussain's paintings are ok, > (and even those against paintings made in MSU) are fine, with me, as long as > no violence takes place. In all the three cases, it has taken place leading > to beating up of the student to burning of embassies, which should not be > tolerated in a civilized society. > > So, therefore if someone feels he/she is offended by such paintings, either > ignore them or protest against them subject to conditionality of > non-violence, and thereby ensure you don't usurp the freedom of others. > > Is that so difficult to accept? > > Regards > > Rakesh > From shuddha at sarai.net Sat Aug 15 16:31:09 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:31:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Absence of Husain at Art Summit In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908150333i7620c240m385f7c0166c8668f@mail.gmail.com> References: <82285.22042.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <47e122a70908140631w10cdf369v3328f52b72c9060@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908141004g74fba8aeu7a033cb623075d1f@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70908141028p14e316b6nccfaf0e0867805cc@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908141034g49e11d5gac28a7867770dbac@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70908141041w4885a14cpb2f71c1a96341244@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150333i7620c240m385f7c0166c8668f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Murali, I am surprised to see you equate artists with serial killers. On what grounds do you make this equation? An artist or a writer or a filmmaker offers something to our intelligence and our imagination (whether well or badly is a different question, and we are free, always not to engage with whatever it is that they offer if we choose not to). A serial killer takes life, and that is irreversable. The victim of a serial killer does not have the choice of disengagement, which the audience or viewer of an artist, or a reader of a book always has. If you dont want to see the work of M.F. Husain, or, if someone is offended by the sight of the so called 'Danish Cartoons' no one is forcing you, or them, to see what disturbs you. The matter should end there. However, I see no reason why you, or those who cried themselves hoarse against the Danish cartoons should choose to obstruct the liberty of all other people from seeing what they want to see and making up their mind afterwards. We are all perfectly capable as individuals of deciding for ourselves what we want to see and to show. I don't see how your discomfort (or the discomfort of others like you) should be of any consequence to anyone else at all. I am not forcing you to see what I want to see, I am not forcing you not to see what I dont want to see. What makes you so important that your desires and anxieties should govern the choices I make in my life. Who the hell are you anyway to try and govern my behaviour. If you think you have the right to do so, you have a highly exaggerated sense of your own importance. Please stop deciding for the rest of us what we should be free to see or not see. I personally have always opposed the censorship of films, and feel that while certiying films as being suitable or unsuitable for minors may have some logic, the censor board for films should be scrapped. it should have been scrapped long ago. Shuddha On 15-Aug-09, at 4:03 PM, Murali V wrote: > Dear Mr. Inder Salim, > > Why restrict freedom of expression to artists alone? To a serial > killer also it is a freedom of expression. Why do we have a censor > board for films? > > Regards, > V Murali > > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 11:11 PM, Inder Salim > wrote: >> Dear Murali ji >> >> fine, if you want to a Hindu face of Muslim Fundamentalism, fine, >> i wont touch you, as both are more dangerous than swine flue to >> Freedom of Expression. >> >> about suggesting what Artists should do or what they should not. >> what do you think if they listen to each and every body about their >> inner drives to choose their subject matters. >> will there be art and poetry. >> >> imagine, Ghalib composing his verses after listening to a Maulana ji >> at the mosque >> >> let us laugh, and let the artistic freedom thrive in a society which >> is already reeling under threat from various other factors. >> >> with love >> is >> >> >> >> On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 11:04 PM, Murali >> V wrote: >>> Fine. I hope you would recall the Danish cartoon and its aftermath. >>> Then why doesnt M F Hussain represent similar artistic thoughts >>> to his >>> faith. >>> >>> Regards, >>> V Murali >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 10:58 PM, Inder >>> Salim wrote: >>>> well, we are told to believe ( in Hinduism as well ) that God is >>>> one, >>>> has no gender, colour texuture or name, so no question depiting >>>> GOD >>>> with or without garments >>>> >>>> and if God exists in multiples, in all the faces of all the human >>>> beings, animals, plants, mountains seas, air and sunlight, then the >>>> question of depicting this way or that does alter very little since >>>> the surface is vast and endless. >>>> >>>> Art is fun, and strangely liberates those who look into eye of it >>>> constatnly. that is another matter, which needs a cool and patient >>>> listening.......... But, right now >>>> >>>> let us re-read what Justice Sanjay Kishan. Kaul said is his land >>>> mark2007 judgement in support of freedom of expresion, thus >>>> exonarating Artist MF Hussain from the so called indecent >>>> deptiction >>>> of Hindu Goddess, and simultaneously questioined the Right Wing >>>> Hindu >>>> intolarant and ingnorant face of our polity, who have nothing >>>> but an >>>> axe to grind. >>>> >>>> with love >>>> is >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Murali >>>> V wrote: >>>>> Well who is the next hindu godess to be depicted nude by M F >>>>> Hussain. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> V Murali >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Inder >>>>> Salim wrote: >>>>>> Dear all >>>>>> >>>>>> please click to see >>>>>> >>>>>> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_pllHvmNB5GI/Sn7kVWsGT2I/AAAAAAAAAPE/ >>>>>> lF_BbjckUgg/s1600-h/sraswati+with+text1.jpg >>>>>> >>>>>> image in solidarity with MF Hussain >>>>>> >>>>>> with love >>>>>> inder salim >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 2:36 PM, ashok >>>>>> kumari wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> we are submitting a memo to the home minister on Husain not >>>>>>> being included >>>>>>> in the Art Summit. Please send your endorsement as soon as >>>>>>> possible. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Minister of Home Affairs >>>>>>> Government of India >>>>>>> North Block >>>>>>> New Delhi >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Shri Chidambaram, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We - artists, gallerists and critics, are approaching you on >>>>>>> behalf of the >>>>>>> artists community on the long standing issue of attempts by >>>>>>> Hindu right-wing >>>>>>> groups to effectively impose a ban on exhibiting any work by >>>>>>> our greatest >>>>>>> living artist, 94 year old MF Husain, through threats of >>>>>>> assault and >>>>>>> violence. These groups, including the BJP, Bajrang Dal, Sri >>>>>>> Ram Sena, the >>>>>>> VHP, and the Shiv Sena have led a concerted communal campaign >>>>>>> against Husain >>>>>>> accusing him of blasphemy since 1996. This campaign has taken >>>>>>> a violent form >>>>>>> on many occasions and has also led to cases being filed >>>>>>> against the artist >>>>>>> in courts across India, and has led to Husain's self-imposed >>>>>>> exile. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In a landmark judgement dismissing three such cases in the >>>>>>> Delhi High Court >>>>>>> in 2007, Justice Sanjay Kishen Kaul defended the right of >>>>>>> freedom of >>>>>>> expression under the Constitution of India. The Union >>>>>>> Ministry of Culture, >>>>>>> during the previous Art Summit held in 2008 had categorically >>>>>>> stated “Shri >>>>>>> M. F. Husain is one of the most prominent artist of the >>>>>>> country and the >>>>>>> absence of his works at the India Art Summit will not reflect >>>>>>> the true art >>>>>>> scenario of India.” >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We are very disturbed by reports that the upcoming >>>>>>> International India Art >>>>>>> Summit taking place at Pragati Maidan from August 19-24th has >>>>>>> asked >>>>>>> participating galleries for the second year running to not >>>>>>> display the work >>>>>>> of Husain citing fear of attacks. We enclose a report from >>>>>>> the Telegraph >>>>>>> which quotes them as saying that the Home Ministry has >>>>>>> offered no assurance >>>>>>> of security. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We find it shocking that the work of the most famous artist >>>>>>> cannot be shown >>>>>>> in the country of his birth, even though he is not a >>>>>>> criminal, nor is his >>>>>>> work proscribed or banned. The Art Summit is being attended >>>>>>> by luminaries >>>>>>> from around the world, and it is a sad state of affairs that >>>>>>> we, who >>>>>>> justifiably pride ourselves as a great democracy, cannot >>>>>>> resist threats from >>>>>>> these groups who we see as no less than other terrorists who >>>>>>> threaten our >>>>>>> daily lives. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We request a meeting with you to apprise you of the art >>>>>>> community's anguish >>>>>>> and concern. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yours Sincerely, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Vivan Sundaram, Ram Rahman, Parthiv Shah, Shireen Gandhi, >>>>>>> Dadiba Pundole, >>>>>>> Geetha Mehra, Gayatri Sinha, Arun Vadhera, Renu Modi, Ashish >>>>>>> Anand, Devika >>>>>>> Daulet Singh, Geeta Kapur, Peter Nagy >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>> See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. >>>>>>> Check out Yahoo! >>>>>>> Buzz. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> _________________________________________ >>>>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>>>>> with subscribe in the subject header. >>>>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- >>>>>> list >>>>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>>> with subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 15 16:36:40 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 04:06:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Onward Christian Soldiers In-Reply-To: <4A84D773.7050805@sarai.net> Message-ID: <132279.98317.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> The article "AND HE SHALL BE JUDGED" by Robert Draper accompanying the slideshow http://men.style.com/gq/features/topsecret   is at http://men.style.com/gq/features/landing?id=content_9217   --- On Fri, 8/14/09, Vivek Narayanan wrote: From: Vivek Narayanan Subject: [Reader-list] Onward Christian Soldiers To: "sarai list" Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 8:48 AM Utterly terrifying, but at least now we know for sure that Bush was no pseudo-secularist: http://men.style.com/gq/features/topsecret From murali.chalam at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 16:37:08 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:37:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Absence of Husain at Art Summit In-Reply-To: References: <82285.22042.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <47e122a70908140631w10cdf369v3328f52b72c9060@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908141004g74fba8aeu7a033cb623075d1f@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70908141028p14e316b6nccfaf0e0867805cc@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908141034g49e11d5gac28a7867770dbac@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70908141041w4885a14cpb2f71c1a96341244@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150333i7620c240m385f7c0166c8668f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908150407x4b422233t7fe498fb2bff1549@mail.gmail.com> What is legitimate to one may not be the case with the other. A sweet is perfect dish for a non-diabetic, but for a diabetic it is a poison. I guess a writer also comes under the definition of artisits and we al know the kind of life threats that Salman Rushdie is facing. Regards, V Murali On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 4:15 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Murali ji > > Let me answer some of the questions you and Mr. Rajen have asked or raised: > > 1) First of all, it's perfectly legitimate according to me, at a personal > level, if any God or Prophet is painted nude, whether it be Christ, > Mohammed, Ram, Shiva, Durga or anybody else. The reason for my argument is > simple. When you stop or restrict someone from making a painting, it's a > restriction on the freedom of a person from painting something. And more > importantly, assuming the nude painting is made, it's not a restriction or > infringement on the freedom of someone who has been depicted in the > painting, as far as Gods or Prophets are concerned. > > This is important to note, because in case of say someone's mother or wife > being painted nude, it could be a kind of restriction or infringement > because it may depict someone in a certain manner. This is also why MMS > clippings of heroines or girls is strictly abhorred. > > 2) The way a person takes such issues is for him/her to decide. The Gods are > not subjected to unfreedom. And as far as the person is concerned, if the > person feels that such a painting is not right form of depiction of his/her > beloved Lord, he/she has a right to protest (though that does not mean > indulging in violence, which I believe all of us will agree on). Similarly, > the person has the freedom of seeing or not seeing such paintings, and > therefore that right has also not been usurped upon. > > Therefore, again this means that people have the right to depict Gods in the > way they wish to. And those who don't like it equally have a right to > protest. But that shouldn't mean indulging in violence. So the protests > against Danish cartoons, as also that against Hussain's paintings are ok, > (and even those against paintings made in MSU) are fine, with me, as long as > no violence takes place. In all the three cases, it has taken place leading > to beating up of the student to burning of embassies, which should not be > tolerated in a civilized society. > > So, therefore if someone feels he/she is offended by such paintings, either > ignore them or protest against them subject to conditionality of > non-violence, and thereby ensure you don't usurp the freedom of others. > > Is that so difficult to accept? > > Regards > > Rakesh > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 16:40:05 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:40:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908150400l2d427d12k959eb800707aa4e@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560908140653w231ff75cyda0b88e641472430@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908150102s5488b5c1p51208b65d70c3903@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908150135h57e0a0ebkf7c36ec8eab88ab7@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150341g586e4064sa3fa414618c7f674@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150400l2d427d12k959eb800707aa4e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Murali ji You had sent me a link on changing demography of the World (Youtube), which actually was for Europe and US and didn't include Asia or Africa. Secondly, I don't understand what's the threat in such an increase in population. Is it that Muslims don't allow other cultural identities to exist per se, wherever they gain majority, in such countries. If that's the case, put such people in jail. And if it turns out that Islam is the intrinsic problem for it, ban Islam or change its nature. But do it after properly assessing the same. Also, as far as madrassas are concerned, there needs to be an analysis as to why these children attend madrassas. Is it because there are no public schools in those areas (or those which are there are not functioning properly) or other reasons, and whether those reasons are justifiable or not. Regards Rakesh From jeebesh at sarai.net Sat Aug 15 16:45:10 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:45:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] . In Praise of Jellyfish by Soren Kierkegaard Message-ID: <9271C776-B84A-4467-A819-38982DA0BA86@sarai.net> "...There is a creature about which I shall fall into reverie rather often - it is the jellyfish. Have you noticed how this gelatinous mass can flatten itself into a plate and then slowly sink, then rise, so still and firm that one would think one could step on it. Now it notices its prey approaching; then it funnels into itself, becomes a pouch and sinks with prodigious speed, deeper and deeper, with this speed snatching its prey - not into its pouch, but into itself, for it is itself a pouch, and nothing else. It is so able to contract itself that one cannot imagine how it could possibly extend itself. It is just about the same with you, and you must forgive me that I have not had a more beautiful creature with which to compare you and also that you perhaps can hardly keep from smiling at the thought of yourself as nothing but a pouch." From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 16:47:37 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:47:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Absence of Husain at Art Summit In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908150407x4b422233t7fe498fb2bff1549@mail.gmail.com> References: <82285.22042.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <47e122a70908140631w10cdf369v3328f52b72c9060@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908141004g74fba8aeu7a033cb623075d1f@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70908141028p14e316b6nccfaf0e0867805cc@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908141034g49e11d5gac28a7867770dbac@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70908141041w4885a14cpb2f71c1a96341244@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150333i7620c240m385f7c0166c8668f@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150407x4b422233t7fe498fb2bff1549@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Murali ji Does it mean that because sugar is a poison for the diabetic, we should ban sugar? Certainly not. It simply means that the diabetic doesn't consume sugar. Similarly, if you don't wish to see a painting which offends you, don't see it. As simple as that. The ayatollahs don't have the right to declare on behalf of the Muslim community what offends it and what doesn't. And if Muslims have that much of a problem, they can protest but not create violence. Otherwise, the option of going to jail and facing punishments as per laws is always there for them, including death sentence. And the same is true for Hindus, Christians, Sikhs, Parsis, Jews, Buddhists, Jains, agnostics, atheists etc. as well. Regards Rakesh From shuddha at sarai.net Sat Aug 15 16:46:00 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:46:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Absence of Husain at Art Summit In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908150407x4b422233t7fe498fb2bff1549@mail.gmail.com> References: <82285.22042.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <47e122a70908140631w10cdf369v3328f52b72c9060@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908141004g74fba8aeu7a033cb623075d1f@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70908141028p14e316b6nccfaf0e0867805cc@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908141034g49e11d5gac28a7867770dbac@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70908141041w4885a14cpb2f71c1a96341244@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150333i7620c240m385f7c0166c8668f@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150407x4b422233t7fe498fb2bff1549@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4F0E8B2A-BB3D-4B55-9585-0BA8156013B9@sarai.net> In that case, it is up to the diabetic to not eat the sweet dish, or eat them and risk his or her health. Why prevent the non-diabetic from eating the sweets. I think all threats to the freedom of expression, be they of Salman Rushdie,Taslima Nasrin or M F Husain or whosoever else,, and to the freedom of readers, viewers and audiences to access their works should be opposed by anyone who loves liberty. On 15-Aug-09, at 4:37 PM, Murali V wrote: > What is legitimate to one may not be the case with the other. A sweet > is perfect dish for a non-diabetic, but for a diabetic it is a poison. > > I guess a writer also comes under the definition of artisits and we al > know the kind of life threats that Salman Rushdie is facing. > > Regards, > V Murali > > On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 4:15 PM, Rakesh > Iyer wrote: >> Dear Murali ji >> >> Let me answer some of the questions you and Mr. Rajen have asked >> or raised: >> >> 1) First of all, it's perfectly legitimate according to me, at a >> personal >> level, if any God or Prophet is painted nude, whether it be Christ, >> Mohammed, Ram, Shiva, Durga or anybody else. The reason for my >> argument is >> simple. When you stop or restrict someone from making a painting, >> it's a >> restriction on the freedom of a person from painting something. >> And more >> importantly, assuming the nude painting is made, it's not a >> restriction or >> infringement on the freedom of someone who has been depicted in the >> painting, as far as Gods or Prophets are concerned. >> >> This is important to note, because in case of say someone's mother >> or wife >> being painted nude, it could be a kind of restriction or infringement >> because it may depict someone in a certain manner. This is also >> why MMS >> clippings of heroines or girls is strictly abhorred. >> >> 2) The way a person takes such issues is for him/her to decide. >> The Gods are >> not subjected to unfreedom. And as far as the person is concerned, >> if the >> person feels that such a painting is not right form of depiction >> of his/her >> beloved Lord, he/she has a right to protest (though that does not >> mean >> indulging in violence, which I believe all of us will agree on). >> Similarly, >> the person has the freedom of seeing or not seeing such paintings, >> and >> therefore that right has also not been usurped upon. >> >> Therefore, again this means that people have the right to depict >> Gods in the >> way they wish to. And those who don't like it equally have a right to >> protest. But that shouldn't mean indulging in violence. So the >> protests >> against Danish cartoons, as also that against Hussain's paintings >> are ok, >> (and even those against paintings made in MSU) are fine, with me, >> as long as >> no violence takes place. In all the three cases, it has taken >> place leading >> to beating up of the student to burning of embassies, which should >> not be >> tolerated in a civilized society. >> >> So, therefore if someone feels he/she is offended by such >> paintings, either >> ignore them or protest against them subject to conditionality of >> non-violence, and thereby ensure you don't usurp the freedom of >> others. >> >> Is that so difficult to accept? >> >> Regards >> >> Rakesh >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From murali.chalam at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 16:51:45 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:51:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Absence of Husain at Art Summit In-Reply-To: References: <82285.22042.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <47e122a70908140631w10cdf369v3328f52b72c9060@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908141004g74fba8aeu7a033cb623075d1f@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70908141028p14e316b6nccfaf0e0867805cc@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908141034g49e11d5gac28a7867770dbac@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70908141041w4885a14cpb2f71c1a96341244@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150333i7620c240m385f7c0166c8668f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908150421r166fb733l8442242ae7e472e7@mail.gmail.com> "I personally have always opposed the censorship of films, and feel that while certiying films as being suitable or unsuitable for minors may have some logic, the censor board for films should be scrapped. it should have been scrapped long ago. " By the very same logic of yours, who the hell is the censor board to certify minorship viewership which is based only on age and not on the maturity level. It is very much possible that some one below 18 could have maturity levels much higher than for his age Regards, On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Murali, > I am surprised to see you equate artists with serial killers. On what > grounds do you make this equation? An artist or a writer or a filmmaker > offers something to our intelligence and our imagination (whether well or > badly is a different question, and we are free, always not to engage with > whatever it is that they offer if we choose not to). A serial killer takes > life, and that is irreversable. > The victim of a serial killer does not have the choice of disengagement, > which the audience or viewer of an artist, or a reader of a book > always has. If you dont want to see the work of M.F. Husain, or, if someone > is offended by the sight of the so called 'Danish Cartoons' no one is > forcing you, or them, to see what disturbs you. The matter should end there. > However, I see no reason why you, or those who cried themselves hoarse > against the Danish cartoons should choose to obstruct the liberty of all > other people from seeing what they want to see and making up their mind >  afterwards. > We are all perfectly capable as individuals of deciding for ourselves what > we want to see and to show. I don't see how your discomfort (or the > discomfort of others like you) should be of any consequence to anyone else > at all. I am not forcing you to see what I want to see, I am not forcing you > not to see what I dont want to see. What makes you so important that your > desires and anxieties should govern the choices I make in my life. Who the > hell are you anyway to try and govern my behaviour. >  If you think you have the right to do so, you have a highly exaggerated > sense of your own importance. Please stop deciding for the rest of us what > we should be free to see or not see. > I personally have always opposed the censorship of films, and feel that while certiying films as being suitable or unsuitable for minors may have some logic, the censor board for films should be scrapped. it should have been scrapped long ago. > Shuddha > > > On 15-Aug-09, at 4:03 PM, Murali V wrote: > > Dear Mr. Inder Salim, > Why restrict freedom of expression to artists alone?  To a serial > killer also it is a freedom of expression. Why do we have a censor > board for films? > Regards, > V Murali > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 11:11 PM, Inder Salim wrote: > > Dear Murali ji > fine, if you want to a Hindu face of Muslim Fundamentalism, fine, > i wont touch you, as both are  more dangerous than swine flue to > Freedom of Expression. > about suggesting what Artists should do or what they should not. > what do you think if they listen to each and every body about their > inner drives to choose their subject matters. > will there  be art and poetry. > imagine, Ghalib composing his verses after listening to a Maulana ji > at the mosque > let us laugh, and let the artistic freedom thrive in a society which > is already reeling under threat from various other factors. > with love > is > > > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 11:04 PM, Murali V wrote: > > Fine. I hope you would recall the Danish cartoon  and its aftermath. > Then why doesnt M F Hussain represent similar artistic thoughts to his > faith. > Regards, > V Murali > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 10:58 PM, Inder Salim wrote: > > well, we are told to believe ( in Hinduism as well ) that God is one, > has no gender, colour  texuture or name, so no question depiting GOD > with or without garments > and if  God exists in multiples, in all the faces of all the human > beings, animals, plants, mountains seas, air and sunlight, then the > question of depicting this way or that does alter very little since > the surface is vast and endless. > Art is fun, and strangely liberates those who look into eye of it > constatnly. that is another matter, which needs a cool and patient > listening.......... But, right now > let us re-read what  Justice  Sanjay Kishan. Kaul said is his land > mark2007 judgement in support of freedom of expresion,  thus > exonarating  Artist MF Hussain from the so called indecent deptiction > of Hindu Goddess,  and simultaneously questioined the Right Wing Hindu > intolarant and ingnorant face of our polity, who have nothing but an > axe to grind. > with love > is > > > > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Murali V wrote: > > Well who is the next hindu godess to be depicted nude by M F Hussain. > Regards, > V Murali > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Inder Salim wrote: > > Dear all > please click to see > http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_pllHvmNB5GI/Sn7kVWsGT2I/AAAAAAAAAPE/lF_BbjckUgg/s1600-h/sraswati+with+text1.jpg > image in solidarity with MF Hussain > with love > inder salim > > On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 2:36 PM, ashok kumari wrote: > > we are submitting a memo to the home minister on Husain not being included > in the Art Summit. Please send your endorsement as soon as possible. > Minister of Home Affairs > Government of India > North Block > New Delhi > Dear Shri Chidambaram, > We - artists, gallerists and critics, are approaching you on behalf of the > artists community on the long standing issue of attempts by Hindu right-wing > groups to effectively impose a ban on exhibiting any work by our greatest > living artist, 94 year old MF Husain, through threats of assault and > violence. These groups, including the BJP, Bajrang Dal, Sri Ram Sena, the > VHP, and the Shiv Sena have led a concerted communal campaign against Husain > accusing him of blasphemy since 1996. This campaign has taken a violent form > on many occasions and has also led to cases being filed against the artist > in courts across India, and has led to Husain's self-imposed exile. > In a landmark judgement dismissing three such cases in the Delhi High Court > in 2007, Justice Sanjay Kishen Kaul defended the right of freedom of > expression under the Constitution of India. The Union Ministry of Culture, > during the previous Art Summit held in 2008 had categorically stated “Shri > M. F. Husain is one of the most prominent artist of the country and the > absence of his works at the India Art Summit will not reflect the true art > scenario of India.” > We are very disturbed by reports that the upcoming International India Art > Summit taking place at Pragati Maidan from August 19-24th has asked > participating galleries for the second year running to not display the work > of Husain citing fear of attacks. We enclose a report from the Telegraph > which quotes them as saying that the Home Ministry has offered no assurance > of security. > We find it shocking that the work of the most famous artist cannot be shown > in the country of his birth, even though he is not a criminal, nor is his > work proscribed or banned. The Art Summit is being attended by luminaries > from around the world, and it is a sad state of affairs that we, who > justifiably pride ourselves as a great democracy, cannot resist threats from > these groups who we see as no less than other terrorists who threaten our > daily lives. > We request a meeting with you to apprise you of the art community's anguish > and concern. > Yours Sincerely, > Vivan Sundaram, Ram Rahman, Parthiv Shah, Shireen Gandhi, Dadiba Pundole, > Geetha Mehra, Gayatri Sinha, Arun Vadhera, Renu Modi, Ashish Anand, Devika > Daulet Singh, Geeta Kapur, Peter Nagy > ________________________________ > See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! > Buzz. > > > -- > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > -- > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > -- > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > From murali.chalam at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 16:54:24 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:54:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908150102s5488b5c1p51208b65d70c3903@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908150135h57e0a0ebkf7c36ec8eab88ab7@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150341g586e4064sa3fa414618c7f674@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150400l2d427d12k959eb800707aa4e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908150424i1d9e5cc3s37bac0942c6c86c4@mail.gmail.com> Not to the Youtube link, but one referring to the demography in India On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Murali ji > > You had sent me a link on changing demography of the World (Youtube), which > actually was for Europe and US and didn't include Asia or Africa. > > Secondly, I don't understand what's the threat in such an increase in > population. Is it that Muslims don't allow other cultural identities to > exist per se, wherever they gain majority, in such countries. If that's the > case, put such people in jail. And if it turns out that Islam is the > intrinsic problem for it, ban Islam or change its nature. But do it after > properly assessing the same. > > Also, as far as madrassas are concerned, there needs to be an analysis as to > why these children attend madrassas. Is it because there are no public > schools in those areas (or those which are there are not functioning > properly) or other reasons, and whether those reasons are justifiable or > not. > > Regards > > Rakesh > From murali.chalam at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 16:52:56 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:52:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908150102s5488b5c1p51208b65d70c3903@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908150135h57e0a0ebkf7c36ec8eab88ab7@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150341g586e4064sa3fa414618c7f674@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150400l2d427d12k959eb800707aa4e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908150422x571c0c3xf598d613bcbe79cd@mail.gmail.com> Saudi arabia is a classic example. On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Murali ji > > You had sent me a link on changing demography of the World (Youtube), which > actually was for Europe and US and didn't include Asia or Africa. > > Secondly, I don't understand what's the threat in such an increase in > population. Is it that Muslims don't allow other cultural identities to > exist per se, wherever they gain majority, in such countries. If that's the > case, put such people in jail. And if it turns out that Islam is the > intrinsic problem for it, ban Islam or change its nature. But do it after > properly assessing the same. > > Also, as far as madrassas are concerned, there needs to be an analysis as to > why these children attend madrassas. Is it because there are no public > schools in those areas (or those which are there are not functioning > properly) or other reasons, and whether those reasons are justifiable or > not. > > Regards > > Rakesh > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 16:57:46 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:57:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908150424i1d9e5cc3s37bac0942c6c86c4@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560908150102s5488b5c1p51208b65d70c3903@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908150135h57e0a0ebkf7c36ec8eab88ab7@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150341g586e4064sa3fa414618c7f674@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150400l2d427d12k959eb800707aa4e@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150424i1d9e5cc3s37bac0942c6c86c4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Murali We are talking about India, not about Saudi Arabia. And please don't change topics, for God's sake (if not for your or my sake). Anyways, even there how do you know what is being taught in madrassas there? Regards Rakesh From murali.chalam at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 17:00:37 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:00:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908150135h57e0a0ebkf7c36ec8eab88ab7@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150341g586e4064sa3fa414618c7f674@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150400l2d427d12k959eb800707aa4e@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150424i1d9e5cc3s37bac0942c6c86c4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908150430n15733cd8o8d794011090b392c@mail.gmail.com> The reference to Saudi is to your statement which I quote " Is it that Muslims don't allow other cultural identities to exist per se, wherever they gain majority, in such countries" Regards, V Murali On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 4:57 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Murali > > We are talking about India, not about Saudi Arabia. And please don't change > topics, for God's sake (if not for your or my sake). Anyways, even there how > do you know what is being taught in madrassas there? > > Regards > > Rakesh > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 17:08:07 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:08:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908150430n15733cd8o8d794011090b392c@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560908150135h57e0a0ebkf7c36ec8eab88ab7@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150341g586e4064sa3fa414618c7f674@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150400l2d427d12k959eb800707aa4e@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150424i1d9e5cc3s37bac0942c6c86c4@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150430n15733cd8o8d794011090b392c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I am talking about Europe and USA, not Saudi Arabia. The You-tube link you gave was referring to these two entities, hence I wanted to know about the same. Are Muslims restricting the freedoms of individuals living there? If yes, why? Is it lack of public discussion or difference in value systems? What can be done in either case? Is the problem intrinsic to Islam? If no, then what is the case? If yes, then what can be done to change the nature of Islam? And if no solutions are possible (after exhausting all the possibilities), should we ban Islam? Should these nations ask Muslims to leave the nation so that the rest can leave peacefully with their rights secure? Should they be sent to settle in any other country (like Jews were settled in Israel)? What costs and benefits are involved in these arrangements? These are just some of the questions which need to be asked, before making any value-based judgements on these nations. From murali.chalam at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 17:22:45 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:22:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: References: <4eab87870908150341g586e4064sa3fa414618c7f674@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150400l2d427d12k959eb800707aa4e@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150424i1d9e5cc3s37bac0942c6c86c4@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150430n15733cd8o8d794011090b392c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908150452x5086e916r80e964c51fbfaa95@mail.gmail.com> If you look at all the countries that have a majority muslim population, all of them have declared themselves as islamic states. Regards, V Murali On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > I am talking about Europe and USA, not Saudi Arabia. The You-tube link you > gave was referring to these two entities, hence I wanted to know about the > same. Are Muslims restricting the freedoms of individuals living there? If > yes, why? Is it lack of public discussion or difference in value systems? > What can be done in either case? Is the problem intrinsic to Islam? If no, > then what is the case? If yes, then what can be done to change the nature of > Islam? And if no solutions are possible (after exhausting all the > possibilities), should we ban Islam? Should these nations ask Muslims to > leave the nation so that the rest can leave peacefully with their rights > secure? Should they be sent to settle in any other country (like Jews were > settled in Israel)? What costs and benefits are involved in these > arrangements? > > These are just some of the questions which need to be asked, before making > any value-based judgements on these nations. > > > From jeebesh at sarai.net Sat Aug 15 17:27:16 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:27:16 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908150452x5086e916r80e964c51fbfaa95@mail.gmail.com> References: <4eab87870908150341g586e4064sa3fa414618c7f674@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150400l2d427d12k959eb800707aa4e@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150424i1d9e5cc3s37bac0942c6c86c4@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150430n15733cd8o8d794011090b392c@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150452x5086e916r80e964c51fbfaa95@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Indonesia? second largest muslim population in the world. not a islamic state. airlines is called Garuda airlines. Turkey? 90% muslim. Not an islamic state. On 15-Aug-09, at 5:22 PM, Murali V wrote: > If you look at all the countries that have a majority muslim > population, all of them have declared themselves as islamic states. > > Regards, > V Murali > > On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Rakesh Iyer > wrote: >> I am talking about Europe and USA, not Saudi Arabia. The You-tube >> link you >> gave was referring to these two entities, hence I wanted to know >> about the >> same. Are Muslims restricting the freedoms of individuals living >> there? If >> yes, why? Is it lack of public discussion or difference in value >> systems? >> What can be done in either case? Is the problem intrinsic to Islam? >> If no, >> then what is the case? If yes, then what can be done to change the >> nature of >> Islam? And if no solutions are possible (after exhausting all the >> possibilities), should we ban Islam? Should these nations ask >> Muslims to >> leave the nation so that the rest can leave peacefully with their >> rights >> secure? Should they be sent to settle in any other country (like >> Jews were >> settled in Israel)? What costs and benefits are involved in these >> arrangements? >> >> These are just some of the questions which need to be asked, before >> making >> any value-based judgements on these nations. >> >> >> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From murali.chalam at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 17:36:25 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:36:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: References: <4eab87870908150341g586e4064sa3fa414618c7f674@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150400l2d427d12k959eb800707aa4e@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150424i1d9e5cc3s37bac0942c6c86c4@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150430n15733cd8o8d794011090b392c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908150506j671144b6o902226dcce8be79a@mail.gmail.com> Please go through the following url http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/abulkazem/titfortat.htm On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > I am talking about Europe and USA, not Saudi Arabia. The You-tube link you > gave was referring to these two entities, hence I wanted to know about the > same. Are Muslims restricting the freedoms of individuals living there? If > yes, why? Is it lack of public discussion or difference in value systems? > What can be done in either case? Is the problem intrinsic to Islam? If no, > then what is the case? If yes, then what can be done to change the nature of > Islam? And if no solutions are possible (after exhausting all the > possibilities), should we ban Islam? Should these nations ask Muslims to > leave the nation so that the rest can leave peacefully with their rights > secure? Should they be sent to settle in any other country (like Jews were > settled in Israel)? What costs and benefits are involved in these > arrangements? > > These are just some of the questions which need to be asked, before making > any value-based judgements on these nations. > > > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 17:37:27 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:37:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Salute to these patriots, for trying to ensure independence day for all Message-ID: Dear all Please read these accounts, for this shows the kind of progress we have made as an 'independent' nation, and how this 'independence' had to be ensured when it was being snatched by the State itself. Regards Rakesh Article: http://www.tehelka.com/story_main42.asp?filename=Ne220809coverstory.asp *GROUND ZERO PATRIOTS* *Raise High the Roof Beams* An adivasi woman takes on India’s largest steel plant. A doctor leads thousands of farmers in their fight for a river. A young urbanite is jailed as she tries to secure rights for forest communities. As India turns 62, * TEHELKA* profiles those who are fighting to keep its democracy alive EVEN THE most cynical of generations wonder: why did giants once roam the world, when dwarves now surround us? How is it that those who built our nation found time for more than the task of waking millions, for more than the intricate clockwork of statecraft? When did they sit down long enough to forge new ways of compassion, of courage, of living? To write enormous tracts, translate the ancients? What were they, to use the easy parlance of hallucinogens, on? It has been 62 years after the giants won us a country and built the political scaffolding to make it kinder, more just. But greed and cruelty are still part of our public lives. When people stand teetering on the edge, we carelessly push. When the path of least resistance runs over the homes, fields and forests of others, we charge on. It would seem like the gods have departed, leaving behind only the vulnerable and the revelers. But the giants still live on in odd corners. When novelist and sociologist Susan Visvanathan visited the fishworkers of Kerala, a fisherman asked her, “Thakazhy Sivasankara Pillai made millions out of his novel [Chemeen] on the life of fisherpeople. Are you also going to do the same? I wake up at two in the morning and I get nothing.” Magline and Peter Thayil, two leaders of the fishworkers’ movement are just as resistant to mythologising. Regardless of their Biblical names, the Jesus-invoking sea, the romance of it all, they are people who wake up at two in the morning and get on with their lives’ work. They protect the livelihoods of lakhs of people by ensuring that we and our trawlers don’t eat the oceans out of fish, that no one buys and sells the sea in the fine mesh of arcane contracts. Elsewhere, others are jailed and assaulted for protecting what ought to belong to the commons, not shredded into toothpicks. A young doctor in Karnataka joins thousands of farmers and the urban poor in a decade-long political struggle. A woman in Assam becomes the first in her village to go to college but cannot forget the fear caused by the soldiers who roam her lands with impunity. A young man in Orissa realises that the dozens of struggles across the state need to come together and he is the one to do it. A young adivasi woman in Jharkhand comes to the same realisation. She once ran a tea-shop and is now a journalist, but like the Bhakti poet Akka Mahadevi, she must wander from village to village awakening her people to the approaching fangs of a steel empire. Another empire poisons a whole city, thousands die, and decades later a man, battles the false memories and absurd lies that seek to hide the stillseeping poison. The fate that awaits these strange, sleepless beings is not — unlike in the case of the giants who built India — the crowns and sceptres of a grateful nation. We are instead more likely to be enraged. If they must be misguided, we argue, let them do it without discomfiting us, depriving us of the soft light and canned music we are used to. Inevitably we call them traitors for warring against the nation. Even when we are sympathetic to their tireless work, their ambitions seem against the natural order of things — because the natural order of things are made for us — in the same way that Indians claiming the right to independence must have seemed preposterous to the British. *The fate that awaits these strange, sleepless beings is not the crowns and sceptres of a grateful nation* We have hard work ahead, warned Nehru in the midnight hour. Sure, most of us responded, and went off whistling and thinking of lunch. But luckily, in the place of the giants who are gone, others have sprung, prepared to sleep on railway platforms and footpaths, to have their young bodies broken from lathis, their voices hoarse from shouting — all to preserve democracy, to protect us from ourselves. This week TEHELKA meets some of these giants from across the nation. They — like Richard Wilbur’s prophet — are “madeyed from stating the obvious” but refuse to blink. And someday in the future someone will ask: did they really exist? Were they as tall as they seem? And we can answer, yes. *NISHA SUSAN* *Miracles Among The Fish* *MAGLINE PETER, 41,** leads a massive movement of fishworkers that is learning to fight everything from climate change to superstition* ** TEN LAKH fishermen and fisherwomen, in 222 coastal villages and 113 inland fishery villages, along Kerala’s 590 km coastline. Chances are Magline Peter has met all of them at some point. Every now and then one of the women will tease Magline and ask her what she is so worked up about. “I am angry because I have to protect my community, my father and mother, my family and friends, my sea, my coast,” says Magline. Magline is the state convenor of the Theeradesa Mahila Vedi, the women’s wing of the Kerala Swathanthra Malsya Thozhilali Federation (KSMTF or Kerala Independent Fishworkers Federation). The massive community organisation is no windy, exploitative trade union weighed down by acronyms or political parties. Though the federation was once synonymous with the Latin Catholic community, there has been decisive action to make it secular and inclusive of other religions, all the way up from the trenches to the leadership. Magline’s community- based organisation is a live-wire entity that responds quickly and consistently to the challenges faced by fishworkers in an extremely difficult world: greedy trawlers, globalisation, climate change. Magline became an active community leader after she met her husband Peter Thayil, a fellow activist with the KSMTF who was organising meetings at her village Veliyaveli in 1986, though her mother was already an active member of the union. Today, Magline’s daughter, studying for an MBA, sees herself as a part of this movement. Magline has been key in evolving the strong women’s movement among the fisherpeople. *TODAY THEY MUST BUY AND SELL FISH IN A MARKET AS UNPREDICTABLE AND SHARK-FILLED AS THE SEAS* Traditionally, in south Kerala women used to collect and sell fish caught by their community’s men. Today they must buy fish from big contractors and deal with a market as unpredictable and as shark-filled as the seas. The state did not even recognise them as part of the fishing industry. It took TMV leaders like Magline a long while to change that. To understand how far TMV had to go one has to hear about a seemingly trivial concession they gained from the state. In the 1980s women fish vendors were not allowed to travel in buses or trains with their baskets. The way to the market meant miles of walking. Work, family, leisure and livelihood suffered. Fisherwomen had been injured when the helpful public pushed them out of buses. TMV organised massive protests that eventually led to increased bus services from villages to markets and even a train bogey on one major route. At the markets themselves the vendors faced violence, sexual assault and attacks from goondas and politicians. This apart from the assumption that they did not need infrastructure to conduct business. Over the years they have picketed, held rallies, resisted arrest and downed their baskets, and won their livelihood inch by bloodied inch. All this while combating a culture that displays its mixed feelings about its powerful women through superstitions (such as the one that if women sit with untied hair when the men go fishing, there will be huge waves in the sea). *THEY HAVE RESISTED ARREST AND DOWNED THEIR BASKETS AND WON THEIR LIVELIHOODS INCH BY BLOODIED INCH* Magline has a humbling ability to switch from the local to the global, from the seemingly small to the massive. She can talk about state-wide representation for women vendors or climate change with equal passion. Magline herself has participated in agitations with Sardar Sarovar project-affected villagers in the Narmada valley, with dalit and tribal people fighting for land rights across India, with people affected by industrial pollution, with the women’s movement. It seemed natural that eventually her organisation played a key role in founding the World Forum of Fisherpeoples — a necessary formation when their future is affected by a state that thinks it can give away fishing rights to American, Scandinavian and Japanese fishing vessels, dredging the sea for their dinner plates. Or when fishworkers are affected by natural disasters, the WTO or fish diseases. Everyday, Magline says, she gains courage from the lakhs of women fishworkers and vendors who are financially independent — strong and opinionated women who despite the most violent state action are able to continue doing what they do, while also fighting for their livelihoods, sea and coast. * NITHIN MANAYATH* *The Bhopal Express* *SATINATH SARANGI, 55,** had planned to stay for a week. Decades later, he is still fighting on behalf of those affected by the gas tragedy* HOW DOES a nation come to make swine flu the most talked about disease while 900 people die of TB everyday? Is the number of affected directly proportional to our collective amnesia? But there are always people like Satinath ‘Sathyu’ Sarangi who won’t ever let you forget that 23,000 people died of exposure- related illnesses in Bhopal post the 1984 disaster, and more are dying still, that 1,50,000 survivors are still chronically ill, children are born with growth disorders, TB and cancers are far more prevalent in the gas-affected population. But collective amnesia is the least of Sathyu’s problems as he, along with his fellow activists and survivors, are forced to ‘haggle with the state’ over the number of affected people, over the compensation amounts to be given, over the levels of land and water pollution that still exist. “One year they say high contamination of groundwater and in a later report they claim no contamination. It’s stupid, but most of your energies go into battling these absurdities.” Sathyu, had left a Ph.D in metallurgy and was working with Kishore Bharati, an NGO working among adivasis outside Bhopal, when he heard news of the disaster. “I thought I’d be there for a week.” A quarter of a century later, he’s still there — helping in the mobilisation of affected communities, fighting for legal claims, and in providing medical support as part of the Bhopal Group for Information and Action, which he set up in 1986. He is also the managing trustee of the Sambhavna Clinic which provides free medical care and is instrumental in researching the long-term effects of the gas exposure. But doing medical work with the disenfranchised seems a surefire way to get on the bad side of the Indian State. In 1986, he was arrested for giving sodium thiosulphate injections, which acts as a detoxicant to poisonous gases, particularly methyl isocyanate. In 1996, he was handcuffed outside the court where the compensation hearings were taking place and brutally beaten up by 30 policemen, who broke four sticks on his back. It took a call from the presiding judge to get him released. “I fought for a year and a half to ensure that action be taken. Four officials were reprimanded,” he says with a laugh. Sathyu, with a gamcha tied firmly on his head, continues to confront the absurd lies that are constantly produced by the DOW Chemicals of the world andvc the colluding State, with the firm truth of the many survivors walking with him. * NITHIN MANAYATH* ** *The Tidy Rebel* *ALOK AGARWAL, 43,** was destined for the soft life of an IIT boy. Instead, he courted arrests and broken bones to stop the Maheshwar dam* ** ALOK AGARWAL had started on the straight and narrow at IIT Kharagpur. Deeply inspired by Gandhi and Aurobindo, he began teaching in a nearby village, while also repairing the school building. Alok was clear he did not want to become a pampered NRI. Instead, he travelled in the hinterlands to understand issues of development. The Narmada Bachao Andolan (NBA) was picking up steam around 1990 when Alok decided to join it in Madhya Pradesh (MP). ‘My parents wanted me to marry, have a family. Their disappointment lasted for years. When they finally visited me, they went back happy’, he says. As an NBA activist, Alok spearheaded a massive grassroots movement, especially around the Maheshwar Dam, one of the 30 large dams that are part of the Narmada Valley Development Project. Maheshwar had the potential to displace as many as 15,000 families in the Nimad region while submerging 61 villages. Thanks to intense campaigning over years, international investors withdrew. In 1998 the NBA forced the government to set up a task force which recommended a halt to the construction till a participatory review was completed. *‘MY PARENTS WANTED ME TO MARRY, HAVE A FAMILY. THEIR DISAPPOINTMENT LASTED FOR YEARS. UNTIL THEY VISITED’* These long years Alok travelled from village to village everyday, going without food and sleeping on cramped floors. Jailed and beaten badly several times, Alok was once paraded in Barwani district by the police in an attempt to disgrace him. After 19 years his honorarium of Rs 800 has grown to Rs 3,000. Alok owns nothing except his clothes; even the cell phone he uses belongs to the movement. Says Chittaroopa Palit, another NBA activist, “Alok possesses tremendous energy and joy. Despite the relentless struggle and the exhaustion, he has managed to preserve his focus because of his practice of meditation. He has been keeping work- related diaries for 20 years. Each page reflects the tidy thinker that he is.” Says Clifton D’Rozario, an engineer who spent six years with the NBA, “At one protest, the police were gunning for activists, beating them up brutally and jailing them. A few of us, including Alok, were on the run from the cops for around ten days. Despite the dangers, Alok stayed calm, and always thought in the interest of the people.” Through years of litigation and protests, the dam has only been partly constructed. Perhaps through Alok and others, it will stay that way. *AMRITA NANDY-JOSH**I * *The Fugitive Student* *BHAGABAN MAJHI, 32,** lost his faith in the law’s sincerity of purpose. But he still believes that one day Orissa’s adivasis will be a powerful force* ** WHEN BHAGABAN Majhi was in class VIII, he didn’t really look at his textbooks. He was busy reading his teacher’s training manual to learn more about the Constitution of India. He finished class VIII but never went further. He was looking for a different kind of education — one that would show him how he and other adivasis could access the rights promised by the Constitution. Years later, as the leader of the Prakrutik Sampark Surakhya Parishad (PSSP) — a movement fighting against the bauxite mining project in Kashipur, Orissa, that would displace thousands of adivasis with disastrous environmental consequences — he is still learning, he says. A sense of responsibility is what initially drove him towards PSSP. If only adivasis were aware of the laws that guarantee protection from exploitation. If only they knew that the courts can shield them from injustice. That the local politicians and policemen were denying the adivasis their rights. He wanted to share with his people his discovery of the Land Reforms Act, the proper implementation of which could perhaps pave their way out of poverty. A few years later, his naivete dawned on him. Says Bhagaban, “We have to forget what the Constitution promises us. The government serves only capitalists. Fighting as a collective is the only way we can make them even hear our voices. The longer the fight, the more we can expose the government for what it is — a gatekeeper of the rich! We want to try to unite all the adivasi, dalit, peasant and landless peoples' movements in Orissa — present a single front that the government just cannot ignore.” *BHAGABAN SAYS, ‘FORGET THE CONSTITUTION. THE GOVERNMENT SERVES ONLY THE CAPITALISTS’* To PSSP, government schemes that provide rice at Rs 2 per kg or even the much touted rural employment scheme are placebos and sedatives. Why else would the government carelessly demolish adivasis’ villages or dismiss their traditional mode of development while raiding Orissa’s natural resources? When three people were shot dead by the police in Maikanch village in 2000, PSSP rallies turned out over 7,000 enraged adivasis. The severe state oppression that PSSP has faced — hundreds arrested in 2005 and 2006 besides periodic lathi charge incidents to disperse protest rallies — is evidence enough to them of the extent to which the government will go to not listen. What happens next? “We continue,” he says. *SANJANA* *The Pied Piper Of Parks* *ROMA, 44,** lobbied in favour of the Forest Rights Act against a State impervious to the possibility of a civil war* * * ROMA HAD just finished a masters degree in social work from a Delhi college. She found herself gripped with the anxieties of a young urban woman. “I was scared my parents would get me married if I stayed in the city,” she says. “I wanted to explore and understand rural India before settling down.” But Roma never married or settled down. Her exploration into the interiors of Himachal Pradesh, Rajasthan’s villages and the forests of Uttar Pradesh chang ed her in fundamental ways. She began reading Ambedkar and Bhagat Singh, and understanding “the politics of a forest life.” Two decades later, Roma, 44, is one of the founders of the National Forum of Forest People and Forest Workers. The forum was instrumental in lobbying for the landmark Forest Rights Act passed in 2006, which recognised the rights of adivasis to their own forests for the first time in India. Initially, the act was only meant for scheduled castes and tribes. “We fought to have it amended to include other forest dwellers who may not be adivasis,” she says. “The adivasis wanted it changed to prevent a civil war.” In August 2007, Roma organised a mass protest in UP to have the Forest Rights Act implemented. She was in Lucknow for a meeting days later when she heard the police may arrest her. Roma returned to her base in Sonbhadra because “it’s better to be arrested in front of the public.” She was booked under the Forest Act, and under criminal sections of the IPC. Soon, she was labelled a Maoist and booked under the National Security Act. The locals wreaked havoc for the 20 days Roma was in jail. For 20 days, thousands of adivasis from three districts, mostly women, blocked roads, beat up the police, got beaten up, got condemned as Maoists, but refused to budge. The Mayawati government had to revoke the NSA. “I got out only because of the people’s protest,” Roma says. “If there was a BJP government, I would be an unknown Binayak Sen.” *‘IF THE BJP WAS IN POWER, I’D BE AN UNKNOWN BINAYAK SEN,’ SAYS ROMA. SHE TOO WAS LABELLED A MAOIST* Roma’s journey began as a college graduate working with rural development NGOs. “They were just a delivery service,” she says. “There was no attempt to bring a qualitative change in the lives of people. The moment the project stops, everything stops.” Opposed to social work that “leads from the outside,” Roma searched for ways to immerse herself inside rural communities. She found the opportunity in the Rajari National Park spread across Uttarakhand and UP. There she lived in dense forests with indigenous people who cooked with forest wood and earned their livelihood by making ropes from wild grass. But every time the adivasis took from the forest, forest officials harassed them with false cases of illegally damaging State property. Desperate, the adivasis went out at night, only to be trampled over by wild elephants. “A man is worth 1.5 paise,” forest officials said when Roma asked for help, “but an elephant is worth 1.5 lakh.” In 1992, Roma spearheaded a local movement against forest department exploitation — Ghar Shetra Mazdoor Sangharsh Samiti. “We declared we are not afraid, and demanded our rights,” Roma says. After the Samiti formed, locals marched into the forest by day, united. The forest officials had to back off. In 1996, the UP government agreed to make official forest depots and passed an order which “allowed” adivasis “to take grass and fuel wood from the forest.” It was levied on five other national parks in UP. *EVERY TIME THE ADIVASIS TOOK WILD GRASS AND WOOD, FOREST OFFICIALS SLAPPED FALSE CASES ON THEM* Roma now lives and works in Sonbhadra district, in the Kamo region of UP, rich with minerals, fossil fuels and rock paintings. Producing 10,000 MW of power, Sonbhadra is also called the ‘energy capital’ of India. The 500 villages in the district have seen no benefits. “Their lands were transferred illegally to the forest department and declared forest land,” Roma says, “so there has been no development here.” She spearheaded the formation of a Kamo Shetra Mahila Mazdur Kisan Sangharsh Samiti, and inspired locals to fight the State and the police. Adivasis and farmers united; they reclaimed 20,000 hectares of forest land in the Kamo region. “My biggest achievement is forming groups of people and awakening a collective political consciousness among them,” she says. “They are moving away from Maoist control. Their consciousness is far beyond the Maoists. They’ll do anything to fight for their rights.” *TUSHA MITTAL* *The Girl Against The Boot* *ANJALI DAIMARY, 45,** has waged war to control the excesses of the armed forces in the North-East* ** ** ** ** * * ACTIVIST ANJALI Daimary marvels that it has been 62 years since India achieved independence. The fruits of all those years, however, have entirely bypassed her native village of Adala Khasibari in Assam’s Udalguri district. Though the village is only 130 kms from Guwahati, it still has no electricity or motorable roads. Indeed, it was only because of the foresight of her father, a priest, that 45-yearold Daimary was able to complete her own studies. Still the only female graduate from her village, she is now pursuing her PhD on changes in Bodo culture. Deeply interested in the life of the Bodos, she traces the community’s struggles through the 1980s to the present day. As in most conflict situations, the women suffered the most as the two main militant groups, the Bodo Liberation Tigers (BLT) and the National Democratic Front of Bodoland (NDFB), waged their battles. Bodo women faced the brunt of raids by the police and security forces. Many were tortured, molested and raped. In 1992, Daimary formed the Bodo Women Justice Forum to bring about awareness of the community’s rights. Though only women are members, they discuss issues pertaining to the entire community. “We used to go from village to village to mobilise people. We urged them to be conscious participants,” she says. But their task was not easy. The Forum’s General Secretary Gulapi Basumatary was shot dead in December 1996 while attending a village meeting. Daimary herself was arrested under TADA in 1993. A mother of two and the head of the department of Major Indian Languages (MIL) at Barama College, she was finally acquitted in 2005. In 1996 and 1997, she had for the first time represented the Bodo tribe at the UN Working Group on Indigenous Population (UNWGIP) in Geneva. She is happy that there is now a UN Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues (UNPFII) that discusses human rights issues of indigenous populations. “When we take up rape cases, the authorities fudge the reports or witnesses turn hostile. Many innocent young men are picked up and killed instead of being tried as per law. At least we have been able to check atrocities,” she says. One day soon, Anjali Daimary plans to bring together all the indigenous peoples of the North-East to fight for their rights. * TERESA REHMAN* *Doctor Strange Love* *VASU HV, 34,** has been working for the rights of the urban poor for a decade and scorns the class bias that thinks of his life as sacrifice* IT IS difficult to cut through Dr Vasu HV’s diffidence. Eleven years in the public eye have not weakened his resolve to keep himself in the background. The only way to get him to reveal anything about himself is to talk of the movement. The movement in question is the one initiated by the Karnataka Janapara Vedike, an organisation engaged in fighting for the rights of farmers, slum dwellers and unorganised workers. The Vedike now has an established presence in over 10 districts of the state. At its opening convention, Vasu was unanimously elected to the post of state general secretary. It was a testament to the commitment of the activist who, even as a child growing up in a Brahmin household in rural Karnataka, was deeply shocked by caste inequalities. “Every district committee of the Vedike has the flexibility to decide on the struggles that it will take up. Though we do have centralised programmes, this flexibility allows the organisation to be more responsive to people’s problems,” says Vasu. In Mandya, the district where he is based, the Vedike is engaged in a battle for the rights of slum dwellers. Of the 18 slums in the town, the Vedike’s influence extends to 12 that have a population of over 10,000 people. The bargaining power that such a presence yields over the state administration is unprecedented. In April 2009, exasperated by the state’s inaction in providing slum dwellers with housing, the Vedike took over government land and began construction work there. *‘IN TWO HOURS WE ERECTED TEMPORARY SHELTERS ON THE LAND EARMARKED FOR US,’ SAYS VASU* “In less than two hours we had erected temporary shelters on the land that was earmarked for us, despite an ongoing lawsuit. We wanted to tell the government that we were fed up of waiting for them,” explains Vasu. Despite heavy bandobast, the police did nothing to stop the activists – there were far too many to stop. Vasu, who took to activism nine years ago after becoming involved in a campaign against the killer reproductive drug quincrinine, doesn’t mull too much on the difficulties of his chosen way of life. “There is a class bias to mapping sacrifice. Coming from a middle class background [Vasu is a doctor from a premier medical college in Bengaluru], I attract more sympathy as someone who has chosen this life. The same sympathy isn’t extended to an activist who has grown up in a slum. Life is hardly easier for him. He has sacrificed personal ambitions as much as I have,” he says with characteristic self-effacement. *SANJANA* *The Farmer Of Freedom* *LAHA GOPALAN, 58,** has been leading adivasis and dalit agricultural labourers in Kerala to stake claim to land that is theirs* ** AKERALa Electricity Board employee was transferred in 1990 to a remote corner of the state for leading a protest against its ‘100 Percent Literacy’ campaign, which had ignored key adivasi and dalit areas. Laha Gopalan had led 200 adivasis to protest their absence from the state’s agenda. Sixteen years later, the recently retired Gopalan once again stepped up to confront the state about its neglect of dalits and adivasis and the “unconstitutional treatment of the country’s citizens”. His organisation, Sadhu Jana Samyukta Vimochana Vedi (SJSVV), spearheaded the encroachment of RPG subsidiary Harrison Malayalam’s Chengara rubber estate, where the lease had expired. Thousands of adivasi and dalit farm labourers set up camp in makeshift huts on the estate. Their key demand — that they be given the one to five acres of land that had been promised to each family by the AK Anthony-led Congress government. Historically, Kerala’s first Communist government’s land reforms had entitled tenants to 1/20th of an acre – barely enough space for a family to sleep in. The reforms, however, excluded cash crops, thus enabling companies like RPG and Tata to hold onto hundreds of acres while lower caste farm labourers continued to work on them. *GOPALAN HAS NINE POLICE CASES AGAINST HIM FOR CRIMES LIKE CUTTING A RUBBER TREE* Gopalan’s current role involves far greater risks than job transfers. In the years since the protestors forcibly occupied estate land, the 5,000 strong group has been at the receiving end of much violence. In a brazen incident, four young men were beaten by the estate’s goons. Then, the police charged two of them with theft and put them behind bars for 14 days without bail. Gopalan has nine police cases against him for crimes like cutting a rubber tree. All the cases were registered by estate ‘officials’. The one time he was arrested, protestors forced the police to release him within the hour. Ask him about personal losses and he says, “I’ve always been stubborn. There have been several incidents but they don’t count, considering how great the injustice being fought is”. Gopalan has inspired a population to fight for what is theirs. “We don’t have a MLA, lawyer or anyone influential supporting us. Few in the movement have even passed class X. To raise consciousness among those who’ve been treated like slaves, is enough to consider the movement a success,” he says. * TEHELKA BUREAU* *Vendor Of Tea And Truth* *DAYAMANI BARLA, 44,** is Jharkhand’s first adivasi journalist. She fights India’s largest steel plant with a mass movement and a tireless stride* ** GROWING UP in the Arhara village in Jharkhand, Dayamani Barla, 44, could have been just one of the faceless thousands displaced by India’s largest steel plant. Today, she leads the mass movement against it. She could have been another adivasi with a crumbling house and a buried story. Instead, she became a storyteller, the “voice of Jharkhand,” the first tribal journalist from the state, the founder of Jan Hak Patrika. “We presented the point of view of adivasis, dalits, women,” she says. “They believed we’ll stand up for them.” A rural reporting award from P Sainath, and a Rs 25,000 bank loan sustained the paper for over two years. By then she’d convinced established local media like Prabhat Khabar to give space to adivasi and dalit issues. “We’ll shoot so many bullets, people won’t recognise your dead body” – that was the threat Barla received in March 2008. “I don’t know whether the threat came from the company or the State,” she says, “since both work together.” By then, Barla had already been part of several local people’s movements — against dams on the Koel and Kari rivers, against delimitation that would reduce the number of seats for scheduled tribes, against corrupt NREGA dalals. The death threats would not deter her from the latest fight. In 2005, Barla discovered maps in a Block Officer’s cabin marking 38 villages with one lakh families to be displaced by Arcelor Mittal’s 12 million tonne steel plant. It stirred her long journey across four districts of Jharkhand, through dense forests and rivers, alerting village after village to the impending doom. “Are you willing to give up your land?” Barla asked unaware villagers. Everyone said no. The mobilising began; she taught them the word ‘virodh’ and showed them how to. Soon the local village meetings grew into the Adivasi Mulvasi Astitva Raksha Manch, uniting thousands of adivasis and farmers across Jharkhand. More than 15,000 of them followed Barla in street protests every week in March 2008. “Jaan denge, zamin nahin denge,” they chanted. A few months later, Arcelor Mittal told the Jharkhand government: “We can go ahead with the project whenever we like, but we’re not doing so because of the andolan.” Such victories gave the movement new impetus. The slogan changed: “Jaan bhi nahi denge, zamin bhi nahi denge.” *THROUGH FOUR DISTRICTS OF JHARKHAND, BARLA ALERTED VILLAGE AFTER VILLAGE TO THE IMPENDING DOOM* Barla’s own revolution began as a class III student in a local missionary school. The rice, dal and mustard fields her parents cultivated were snatched by “businessmen from another village”. Her parents had inked their thumbs onto paper that sold off their land. Within months, her family split. Her mother and brother moved to Ranchi to work as domestic help, her father left home to work as farm labour. She stayed in Arhara, worked from sunrise, separated chaff from wheat to “buy dinner and pencils.” It is this early struggle that helped Barla see the “maha vinash” being unleashed in the name of development. “By uprooting our ancestral lands, they also tear apart our entire social fabric,” she says. “It destroys the language, traditions, culture, identity, financial structures of an entire community. It wipes out generations to come.” *SHE WASHED DISHES FOR THE POLICE, ATE THEIR LEFTOVERS AND STAYED WITH BUFFALOES WHILE FUNDING COLLEGE* In the years that followed, Barla moved to Ranchi, worked as domestic help, washed dishes for the police, ate their leftovers, stayed in a shed with buffaloes and coolies, earned her BCom degree, learnt to type in English and Hindi, worked as a typist for one rupee an hour and funded her MCom. By then it was 1997; she joined a local NGO as an office assistant. “There I saw the real face of NGOS. They collect money in the name of children and women, but don’t spend it on them.” Disillusioned with the idea of NGOS, she quit her job. Simultaneously, she learned that dams on the Koel and Kari rivers could submerge her village. She returned to Arhara, joined an already brewing people’s movement, and hasn’t looked back. Today, Barla runs a teashop on Club road in Ranchi. Unknown figures have appeared on several occasions to attack it, but failed. “The masses are with us, they can’t touch me,” she says. When she’s away, her husband, previously a paan vendor, manages the shop alone. “The biggest challenge if you want to work for society,” she says, “is to find a way to get your daily meals.” *TUSHA MITTAL* *The Grain Elevator* *AKHIL GOGOI, 34,** uses the Right to Information Act and non-violence to unearth corruption in Assam’s rural development * ** *schemes* SIMPLICITY IS difficult. Nobody knows that better than 34- year-old Akhil Gogoi, whose Krishak Mukti Sangram Samiti (KMSS) spearheads a landless peasants’ movement in Assam. The organisation has been waging war against corruption within Assam’s panchayat system, rural development schemes and the Public Distribution System (PDS). Gogoi’s weapon is simple but potent. He uses non-violent agitation and now, the Right to Information Act, 2005. He used the RTI to decipher how about 95 percent of the rice intended to be sold under the PDS found its way to the black market. He has also revealed how corruption has crept into the Indira Awas Yojana and the Sampoorna Gramin Rozgar Yojana. All this involved a lot of research. Operating in three districts of the state, his group, the People’s Interest Research Group, carried out a comprehensive study on the PDS scheme. The study, which revealed major irregularities in the existing PDS, led to the dissolution of 11 cooperative societies and a government review of the distribution system. The unmasking of the scam has made him many enemies. The PDS mafia and local politicians filed a case accusing him of militant leanings. For nearly two years, he remained underground. Even today, he cannot spend too much time with his three-year-old. “I’ve convinced my wife that I am wedded to the cause and she understands,” he says. Gogoi eventually managed to get corrupt officials arrested. For this, he was honoured with the second Manjunath Shanmugam Integrity Award instituted in the memory of the Indian Oil manager killed by the petrol mafia in November 2005. “I believe awards make a person arrogant. But somehow, I could discover a bond in the honest cause of Manjunath,” he says. Among his early successes was the 2002 campaign to rehabilitate 5 lakh people from 42 villages being evicted from the forests of Golaghat. The movement forced the government to stop the eviction drive and provide a written assurance to settle the displaced forest dwellers. Inspired by that success, the KMSS was born on July 20, 2005. His latest struggle is for the full implementation of NREGA in Assam where there is no gram sabha or social audit and nobody seems to get 100 days wage. “There is no decentralisation of power. We are undertaking gherao programmes in every district. The community has to assert its rights over its resources,” he says. * TERESA REHMAN* From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Aug 15 17:52:26 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:22:26 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] a question? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <65be9bf40908150522i72fceb7fg64554254abb13dfe@mail.gmail.com> Dear Jeebesh and Deal All Anyone who claims to deliver a unique national identity card to 600 million people in 12-18 months will be quite stressed out about time. But going the head-lines it seem that this is hardly the case. I would like to draw your attention to two news stories on ID cards which has appeared in last month alone. They appear like copies of each other as far as its title is concerned. Both these stories can be accessed through reader-list archives. Jul 27, 2009 Unique ID numbers in 12-18 months - 169 [ https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2009-July/021133.html ] , and on Aug 14 2009 there was a TOI, story, First lot of Unique ID in 12-18 months- 195 [ http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2009-August/021827.html ] The point being- if even after a month the official response regarding the time frame is the same then surely something is amiss here. I think, someone should ask the relevant people at the good offices of UIDAI- what is start date for verifying UID numbers? So that we can start the count down from that too. I certainly am excited to see whether Nandu and team delivers or not. I think your observation that UID card is not be a proof of citizenship could pertain to a TOI news report which appeared on 13th Aug 2009. [ http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/india/First-lot-of-Unique-ID-in-12-18-months/articleshow/4886915.cms ] My sense is this- by taking a position that UID number will not be citizenship document, the GOI is actually demonstrating a deftness of approach. Of course there are precedents for taking such a line. Just as the social security number was not intended to be a de jure identification document or a de jure citizenship document but is now regarded as de facto and also to a certain extent de jure personal identification document and a citizenship document, so as, by taking a line that UID is not a citizenship document the government has come out clean without getting dirty by stepping into a muddle of fuzzy notions of citizenship at a legal level but I am sure, in the years to come a UIDC/UIDN/ MNIC will come handy in identifying citizens and at the level of practice at least, it will be used to identify citizens. Or weed out non-citizens from citizens. In other words I think there is a strong possibility that once this card giving exercise is over and all the data is centralized, then GOI will start using UIDN as a marker for citizenship without bothering about the law. Warm regards Taha From shuddha at sarai.net Sat Aug 15 17:49:34 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:49:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: References: <4eab87870908150341g586e4064sa3fa414618c7f674@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150400l2d427d12k959eb800707aa4e@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150424i1d9e5cc3s37bac0942c6c86c4@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150430n15733cd8o8d794011090b392c@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150452x5086e916r80e964c51fbfaa95@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Murali, Jeebesh is right, except that Indonesia is the worlds largest (by population) Muslim countriy. Not the second largest. And here is a list of 19 other Muslim majority countries that are not Islamic states, or do not have Islam listed as state religion. Burkina Faso, Gambia, Guinea, Mali, Senegal, Chad, Djibouti, Indonesia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgystan, Tajikstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Albania, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, Palestinian Authority and Turkey. There are several other countries, which recognize Islam as a state religion, such as Egypt but are still not 'Islamic States', that is, they are not governed by Islamic law Only a third category of states, which includes, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan etc, can be strictly called Islamic States, in that they are partially or wholly governed by Islamic law and recognize the Sharia as a source of law and jurisprudence. Please take the trouble to make credible and factual statements as far as possible when you seek to impose your opinions on this list. Shuddha On 15-Aug-09, at 5:27 PM, Jeebesh wrote: > Indonesia? > > second largest muslim population in the world. not a islamic state. > airlines is called Garuda airlines. > > Turkey? > > 90% muslim. Not an islamic state. > > On 15-Aug-09, at 5:22 PM, Murali V wrote: > >> If you look at all the countries that have a majority muslim >> population, all of them have declared themselves as islamic states. >> >> Regards, >> V Murali >> >> On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Rakesh Iyer >> wrote: >>> I am talking about Europe and USA, not Saudi Arabia. The You-tube >>> link you >>> gave was referring to these two entities, hence I wanted to know >>> about the >>> same. Are Muslims restricting the freedoms of individuals living >>> there? If >>> yes, why? Is it lack of public discussion or difference in value >>> systems? >>> What can be done in either case? Is the problem intrinsic to Islam? >>> If no, >>> then what is the case? If yes, then what can be done to change the >>> nature of >>> Islam? And if no solutions are possible (after exhausting all the >>> possibilities), should we ban Islam? Should these nations ask >>> Muslims to >>> leave the nation so that the rest can leave peacefully with their >>> rights >>> secure? Should they be sent to settle in any other country (like >>> Jews were >>> settled in Israel)? What costs and benefits are involved in these >>> arrangements? >>> >>> These are just some of the questions which need to be asked, before >>> making >>> any value-based judgements on these nations. >>> >>> >>> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From peter.ksmtf at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 17:54:43 2009 From: peter.ksmtf at gmail.com (T Peter) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:54:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fish workers protest against agreement with ASEAN Message-ID: <3457ce860908150524l4b67760x770dd07508a0f14e@mail.gmail.com> *Fish workers protest against agreement with ASEAN * *Date:15/08/2009* *URL: http://www.thehindu.com/2009/08/15/stories/2009081554600500.htm* Special Correspondent *Call for mass mobilisation against the agreement * Thiruvananthapuram: The Kerala Swatantra Matsya Thozhilali Federation (KSMTF) has called for a mass mobilisation to stop the ASEAN-India Free Trade Agreement (FTA) from being implemented in the country. President of the federation T. Peter said the signing of the FTA at the Bangkok meeting of the ASEAN on Thursday was “an attack on the federal structure of the Indian Constitution.” A press note quoting Mr. Peter said, “It is ironic that this affront to federalism comes a day before the country celebrates its 62nd Independence Day tomorrow. It exposes the anti-democratic mindset of the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) government.” Mr. Peter said Kerala had voiced its opposition to the FTA quite clearly. “Last month UPA Cabinet Ministers from Kerala A.K. Antony and Vayalar Ravi had cautioned Prime Minister Manmohan Singh but their concerns were ignored with the carrot of the so called ‘sensitive list’ which apparently excluded some products of concern to Kerala.” Mr. Peter said that the Kerala government was still in the dark on the actual contents of the deal signed in Bangkok despite an assurance that a thorough scrutiny of the FTA would be done and copies of the text would be made public. “The trade in goods agreement will enable the dumping of upto177 species of fish in the Indian market,” said Mr. Peter. “The ‘sensitive list’ is just a smokescreen,” he added. Malaysia has aggressive interests in palm oil, Indonesia in rice and rubber and Thailand in fish. If the Government of India puts all of these in a negative list, it is unlikely that these ASEAN members will play ball on the FTA, he pointed out. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Aug 15 17:54:56 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:24:56 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Highlights_of_PM=92s_Independence_?= =?windows-1252?q?Day_speech_-_198?= Message-ID: <65be9bf40908150524i55f06a9axb47e2f3812dc8833@mail.gmail.com> http://blog.taragana.com/n/highlights-of-pms-independence-day-speech-140260/ Highlights of PM’s Independence Day speech Ians August 15th, 2009 Unique Identification Authority of India set up. First set of identity numbers expected to be available in the next one to one-and-a-half years * Nation building will be our highest duty. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Aug 15 18:00:29 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:30:29 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] MNIC: Parliament Questions - 36 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908150530l3f2dabb7o5f2c6625ac8ed56d@mail.gmail.com> http://164.100.47.132/LssNew/psearch/QResult13.aspx?qref=44938 GOVERNMENT OF INDIA MINISTRY OF LAW , JUSTICE AND COMPANY AFFAIRS LOK SABHA UNSTARRED QUESTION NO 7665 ANSWERED ON 16.05.2002 IDENTITY CARDS 7665 . Shri PADAMSEN CHAUDHARY ASHOK KUMAR PATEL (a) whether the Government propose to make the `multi-purpose identity cards` mandatory; (b) if so, the details thereof; and (c) the time by which a final decision is likely to be taken in this regard? ANSWER MINISTER OF LAW, JUSTICE & COMPANY AFFAIRS (SHRI ARUN JAITLEY) (a) to (c): The Election Commission had made the use of electors` photo identity cards, along with other forms of identification, compulsory for identification of voters during the General Elections to the Legislative Assemblies of Haryana, Kerala, Tamil Nadu, West Bengal and Pondicherry in 2001 and during the General Elections to the Legislative Assemblies of Manipur, Punjab, Uttaranchal and Uttar Pradesh held this year. The scheme to issue photo-identity cards to electors is a continuous and ongoing process (excepting for a brief period between the last date for filing nomination and completion of electoral process) on account of more number of persons becoming eligible for the right of franchise on attaining the age of 18 years as also due to movement of electors. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Aug 15 18:01:34 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:31:34 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] MNIC: Parliament Questions - 37 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908150531h1761f211j5bcc94a14bad5be5@mail.gmail.com> http://164.100.47.132/LssNew/psearch/QResult13.aspx?qref=42707 GOVERNMENT OF INDIA MINISTRY OF LABOUR LOK SABHA UNSTARRED QUESTION NO 9 ANSWERED ON 15.07.2002 IDENTITY CARD FOR LABOURERS OF CONSTRUCTION WORK 9 . Shri ALE NARENDRA (a) whether the Government have taken any decision to issue Identity Cards to the labourers engaged in construction work in the country; (b) if so, the details thereof; and (c) the steps taken or proposed to be taken by the Government to make it mandatory for the employers of construction workers? ANSWER MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF LABOUR (SHRI ASHOK PRADHAN) (a), (b) & (c) The Government of India has enacted the Building and Other Construction Workers (RECS) Act, 1996. As per the Act, each State Government shall constitute a Building and Other Construction Workers` Welfare Board. The Board shall give to each beneficiary registered with the Board an Identity Card with his/her photo mentioning details of work being done by the Card holder. In Kerala about 9.70 lakh construction workers have been registered as on 31.01.2002 by the State Building & Other Construction Workers` Welfare Board. The Government is persuading other State Governments for early adoption of the Act. The registration by the construction workers with the State Welfare Boards is voluntary and the benefits of the Act would be available to the workers who have registered themselves with the Boards. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 18:15:14 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:15:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: References: <4eab87870908150400l2d427d12k959eb800707aa4e@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150424i1d9e5cc3s37bac0942c6c86c4@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150430n15733cd8o8d794011090b392c@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150452x5086e916r80e964c51fbfaa95@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Shuddha,Murali and all There is one more country which is not mentioned in that list. The country which celebrates its' 62nd independence day, today, on 15th August 2009, whose first PM had spoken of 'Tryst with destiny' on 15th August 1947, and which has the third largest no. of Muslims in the world (after Indonesia and Pakistan). It's not an Islamic state (and the SC in legality did overrule the Hadith and the Sharia by not allowing the triple talaq in the case of Shah Bano) Please do remember this country, even though it's not a Muslim majority country, because of the no. of Muslims living in it in sheer nos. Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 18:34:25 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:34:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] UID Cards Message-ID: Dear Taha My small contribution to your topic of interest. Regards Rakesh Link: http://www.tehelka.com/story_main42.asp?filename=Ne220809falling_between.asp Article: *Falling Between The Barcodes* *Will the National ID card really recognise and help India’s unknown citizens? **TUSHA MITTAL** reports* ** AN INCONSPICUOUS village on the Delhi-Haryana border, Pooth Khurd has just been told it matters. On a hot afternoon in 2003, the entire village is cramped inside a local government school filling forms with 16 pieces of personal information. The Registrar General of India himself as come to inaugurate the pilot test of India’s first national identity project. If this project — estimated to cost of 1.5 lakh crore — goes through successfully, it could mean every faceless Indian will have some sort of recognition, some claim to existence. But if the ID falls into the cracks in our delivery apparatus, this project could further isolate the faceless millions. If the new order is imperfect, it could bar access to even those resources the poor manage to grab because of the chaos. The pilot project was introduced in 12 states covering about 30 lakh people in 2003. In July 2009, the project received fresh impetus after Nandan Nilekani, former Infosys CEO, was appointed chairman of the National Authority for Unique Identity (NAUID) and given the task of implementing it for 1.2 billion Indians. So will the project rely on existing demographic data or conduct original surveys? “The strategy is evolving, but we plan to partner with agencies working with the Public Distribution System and NREGA,” says RL Sharma, Director of NAUID. Some reports suggest the NAUID surveys may even override the census in the future. By 2007, all 6,600 families of Pooth Khurd had received India’s first Multipurpose National Identity Card (MNIC). All except 100-year-old Mukhtiar Singh. His legs couldn’t carry him far enough to be part of the National Population Register. “We were chosen because the government had no complaints from our village, we are an adarsh (ideal) village,” says Raghubhir Singh, 65, a retired army subedar. In the two years since they received it, honour is perhaps the only thing the card has bought the village. Most of the cards lie tucked away in dusty suitcases, inside unopened “tear-proof, tamper proof, water proof” specially designed envelopes. When Raghubhir tried to use the ID card to claim his old age pension, it wasn’t accepted. “We were excited at first, but the card seems useless now,” he says. “No one accepts it. They always ask for the ration card, voter card and electricity bills.” The MNIC is a secure smart card with a 16 KB microprocessor chip containing personal information and biometric details like finger prints. It comes with a unique National Identification Number (NIN). The back-end management has been outsourced to Bharat Electronics Limited. When it begins to function — the first batch is expected by 2011 — the government says it can be used for banking, agricultural credit, property registration, medical help, and school admission. “The government believes identity is an important thing, the lack of which leads to the harassment of the poor. With this unique number, a poor man can get a bank loan without worrying about the birth certificate and proof of residence he may not have. A villager can migrate to Delhi without being a lost face. It will make life easy for the poor,” says Sharma. The ID is also being projected as a way to help welfare programmes reach intended beneficiaries and as a basis for e-governance and easy verification. Sharma adds that the card will contain very basic information — no sensitive information like income — and that stringent measures will be taken to ensure privacy of data. But it is not yet clear who will have access to this information at the local levels. How will it be updated? Who will be able to alter it? And without data on income levels, how will the welfare programmes target the poor? In the absence of a concrete game plan — there is not even an official figure on the cost — many anxieties have mushroomed on the ground. “This could help identify Hindus, Muslims, and Christians, and lead to communal violence,” says social activist Aruna Roy. “We will not have 1 billion accurate cards and cards with disinformation will make things more difficult. Villagers will not be able to get the changes made. If this becomes the primary form of identity, it will be impossible for them to access anything. If the idea is to deliver better public services better, we don’t need this card for it.” THE PROBLEM is that beyond official statements, there is no way of gauging what the real purpose of the project is. Much depends on what the government intends to do with the data. Securing our borders was certainly the initial raison d'être. A Group of Ministers report on “Reforming National Security” in 2001 after the Kargil War recommended the need for a systemic overhaul of the country’s security and intelligence apparatus. It said: “Illegal migration has assumed serious proportions. There should be compulsory registration of citizens and non-citizens living in India. This will facilitate the preparation of a national register of citizens. All citizens should be given a MNIC and non-citizens should be issued identity cards of a different colour and design.” This was how the National Identity Project was born. The Citizenship Act of 1955 was amended to introduce these ID cards. Sources say that in the future, anyone who provides incorrect information to the NAUID could be prosecuted. “It was intended to wash out the aliens and unauthorized people. But the focus appears to be shifting,” says AK Doval, former Intelligence Bureau Chief. “Now, it is being projected as more development oriented, lest it ruffle any feathers. People would be unwilling to give up their right to privacy.” Despite the shift, he believes the project will eventually make our country more secure. “With this system, people can be located anywhere because all databases will be connected. The chances of a fake ID being caught are much higher.” If the pilot projects are any indication, the odds are leaning against the UID project. In Jammu, after almost three years of implementing the ID scheme, the Registrar General of India asked the local administration to ensure that IDs have not been issued to dead people. Reports from Murshidabad in West Bengal suggest that 90 percent of the rural population have been left out of the government survey. Among them are families of Iranian descent living in India for the last 70 years — even before Independence. If the MNIC is used to determine citizenship and “wash out aliens,” it would be based on a flawed assumption — that a smart card can accurately identify who is an Indian and solve the problem of citizenship, that a microprocessor chip can make our country terror free. “I doubt it will make much difference. The roots of insecurity, including state repression, are much deeper,” says economist Jean Drèze. “The danger is that the system will be used as a means of social control and state repression. People without the card will be harassed and the social divide between them and the rest of society will widen, instead of narrowing.” For Sispal Singh in Pooth Khurd, the card is, “like a passport, a license to travel around.” Others in Pooth Khurd seem to derive a similar sense of freedom from this card, as if it can magically open closed spaces. Ironically, it may do the opposite, restricting their access to their own information. Unlike ration cards and voter ID’S, the locals will not be able to read what’s on their MNIC. Spirited public debate on the card may address many of these concerns, but for now, questions remain. Tilling his fields in Pooth Khurd, Parvinder Singh has concerns of his own. “Why can’t the government spend this money better,” he says, “by reducing the the price of dal?” • *WRITER’S EMAIL: * tusha at tehelka.com From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 18:39:59 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:39:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: References: <4eab87870908150424i1d9e5cc3s37bac0942c6c86c4@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150430n15733cd8o8d794011090b392c@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150452x5086e916r80e964c51fbfaa95@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Shuddha A very interesting thing I have found is that most of the states having Muslims in majority of the population (more than 50%) and having declared themselves an Islamic state are actually in West Asia. The African states are either secular states or have declared Islam to be state religion, but have different versions of the Islamic law being followed. Here is the list: Islamic states Main article: Islamic state Islamic State have adopted Islam as the ideological foundation for their political institution. - Afghanistan [71] - Bahrain [72] - Brunei - Iran [73] - Mauritania [74] - Oman [75] - Pakistan [76] - Yemen [77] - Saudi Arabia [78] Islam as state religion State Religion are religious body or creed officially endorsed by the state. - Algeria [79] - Bangladesh [80] - Egypt [81] - Iraq [82] - Kuwait [83] - Libya [84] - Malaysia [85] - Maldives [86] - Morocco [87] - Qatar [88] - Tunisia [89] - United Arab Emirates [90] Secular states Secular State are officially neutral in matters of religion, neither supporting nor opposing any particular religions. - Burkina Faso [91] - Gambia [92] - Guinea [93] - Mali [94] - Senegal [95] - Chad [93] - Djibouti [96] - Indonesia - Kazakhstan [97] [98] - Kyrgystan [99] - Tajikstan [100] - Turkmenistan [101] - Uzbekistan - Albania - Azerbaijan [102] - Bosnia and Herzegovina - Kosovo -- N.B. Serbian province of Kosovo-Metohija is not internationally recognised as a state - Turkey From jeebesh at sarai.net Sat Aug 15 18:48:05 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:48:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Highlights_of_PM=92s_Independence_?= =?windows-1252?q?Day_speech_-_198?= In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40908150524i55f06a9axb47e2f3812dc8833@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40908150524i55f06a9axb47e2f3812dc8833@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0917C461-29B1-4AFD-B796-D9FE79CF49A9@sarai.net> 2008 Highlights (http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/india-news/highlights-of-pm-manmohan-singhs-independence-day-speech_10084297.html ) *Country is witnessing unprecedented economic growth at present, and is likely to be similar this year as well. *Country has not witnessed such consistently high growth rates since 1996. *If current momentum of growth is maintained for next five to ten years, eradicating poverty, ignorance, hunger and disease is now a possibility, and not just a dream. .It is time to create history and build a new India, where no barriers between the Government and the people. ---------- 2009 Highlights (http://blog.taragana.com/n/highlights-of-pms-independence-day-speech-140260/ ) * Restoring growth rate to 9 percent is the greatest challenge we face. We expect that there will be an improvement in the situation by the end of this year. * Appeal to businessmen and industrialists to join in effort to tackle difficult situation and fulfil their social obligations. --------- What happened in this one year, after self claimed unprecedented period of 10 years? On 15-Aug-09, at 5:54 PM, Taha Mehmood wrote: > http://blog.taragana.com/n/highlights-of-pms-independence-day-speech-140260/ > > Highlights of PM’s Independence Day speech > Ians > August 15th, 2009 > > Unique Identification Authority of India set up. First set of identity > numbers expected to be available in the next one to one-and-a-half > years > > * Nation building will be our highest duty. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 15 18:58:07 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 06:28:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908131008o1038548ft57cdbd38ce7a1d13@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <866044.64703.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Rakesh   As far as I know, the Supreme Court judgement in the Shah Bano Case had nothing to do with 'single' or 'triple talaaq'.   The case was about alimony/maintenance entitlements after divorce.   The Judgement was in any case rendered meaningless by  "The Muslim Women (Protection of Rights on Divorce) Act, 1986"   Kshmendra From monica at sarai.net Sat Aug 15 19:03:36 2009 From: monica at sarai.net (Monica Narula) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 19:03:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Ai Wei Wei and the Chinese State Message-ID: <3353AA1D-303E-4704-B0B3-8323BCAF0455@sarai.net> Avant-garde artist Ai Weiwei, one of China's foremost public intellectuals, was recently detained and beaten by police when he attempted to testify at the show trial of dissident Tan Zuoren in Chengdu. Harassment and threats are connected, in part, to his "Names Project," a performative intervention which aims to compile, publish, disseminate, and memorialize the names of the thousands of children who were crushed to death en mass in their "crumbling tofu construction" schools (the rotten fruits of official corruption and kickbacks) during the May 12, 2008 Wenchuan Earthquake, while neighboring government buildings stood intact. The State has strong- armed bereaved parents into silence, refused to investigate government corruption, and barred the victims' names from public release. Ai Weiwei's vocal defiance has led to his censorship, intimidation, threats and now arrest and beating. Having spent the first 2 decades of his life with his father, the revolutionary poet Ai Qing, in a cadre labor reform camp for errant intellectuals, Ai Weiwei understands that no one in China, no matter how "high profile" is ever "safe. Thus, he has chosen to push the State as far as he can in an attempt to reclaim the public sphere for critical discourse, and champion the cause of free speech and genuine citizen and human rights in China. As such, he has willingly put himself in a great deal of danger. His recent statement merits reposting. I hope that you will pass this on and share it with others who believe in the need to nurture and support critical public intellectuals, especially in places like China, where there are so few such clarion and courageous voices. "Watch out! Have you prepared yourself?" -- Ai Weiwei: "I am ready. Or, perhaps I should say that there is nothing to prepare, no way to prepare myself. A person--this is all of me--is something that can be received by others. I offer up all of myself. When the time comes when it is necessary, I will not hesitate, I won't be ambiguous about it. If there is anything that I am reluctant to leave behind it is the wondrous miracle that life has brought me. And that miracles are that every one of us is the same, that people are equal in this game, as well as the fantasies that come along with playing it, and our freedom. I regard every kind of intimidation, from any kind of 'authority or power' [sic - the character is for quanli as in 'rights', but from the context this appears to be a typo, perhaps?], as a threat to human dignity, rationality and reason--a threat to the very possibility of opposition. I will learn to face and confront this." Monica Narula Raqs Media Collective Sarai-CSDS www.raqsmediacollective.net www.sarai.net From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 15 19:19:15 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 06:49:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <866044.64703.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42672.53953.qm@web39107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Kaul Sahib, You are right please. Shah Bano case pertained to maintenance under Sec 125 to a wife after divorce.The Rajiv Gandhi Govt succumbed to pressure from Muslim fundamentalists and enacted the 1986 Act to render the judgement meaningless.Voices in favour of a Uniform Civil Code became more vocal at that time.The Section is still applicable to Hindu divorced women.So it doesn't matter to the Govt. Best Regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Sat, 8/15/09, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > From: Kshmendra Kaul > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately > To: "sarai list" > Date: Saturday, August 15, 2009, 6:58 PM > Dear Rakesh >   > As far as I know, the Supreme Court judgement in the Shah > Bano Case had nothing to do with 'single' or 'triple > talaaq'. >   > The case was about alimony/maintenance entitlements after > divorce. >   > The Judgement was in any case rendered meaningless > by  "The Muslim Women (Protection of Rights on Divorce) > Act, 1986" >   > Kshmendra > > >       > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 19:26:33 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 19:26:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <42672.53953.qm@web39107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <866044.64703.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <42672.53953.qm@web39107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Kshamendra I am extremely sorry for misreporting the fact, but I forgot as I was typing. However, misreporting can't have any excuses, and I apologize for the same, with the intention that I will ensure this isn't repeated in the future. Apologies for the same. Regards Rakesh From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 15 19:30:08 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 07:00:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <866044.64703.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <214742.77815.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Shuddha   On the other hand ....   Countries that are members of the OIC could be seen as having declared themselves as "Islamic" even if there is no other such declaration in their 'official name' or 'laws'.   That would include all the countries you have mentioned with 2 exceptions..  Kosovo is not a member and Bosnia Herzegovina has Observer Status.   Any ambiguities in the recognition that I have proposed will be largely dealt with by studying the various aspects of the OIC http://www.oic-oci.org/home.asp   The Flag of OIC incidentally is said to declare "Allah u Akbar". Not much ambiguity in that. http://flagspot.net/flags/int-oic.html#desc   Kshmendra     Shuddhabrata Sengupta shuddha at sarai.net Sat Aug 15 17:49:34 IST 2009   Murali, Jeebesh is right, except that Indonesia is the worlds largest (by  population) Muslim countriy. Not the second largest. And here is a  list of 19 other Muslim majority countries that are not Islamic  states, or do not have Islam listed as state religion. Burkina Faso, Gambia, Guinea, Mali, Senegal, Chad, Djibouti,  Indonesia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgystan, Tajikstan, Turkmenistan,  Uzbekistan, Albania,  Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo,  Palestinian Authority and Turkey. There are several other countries, which recognize Islam as a state  religion, such as Egypt but are still not 'Islamic States', that is,  they are not governed by Islamic law Only a third category of states, which includes, Iran, Saudi Arabia,  Pakistan, Afghanistan etc, can be strictly called Islamic States, in  that they are partially or wholly governed by Islamic law and  recognize the Sharia as a source of law and jurisprudence. Please take the trouble to make credible and factual statements as  far as possible when you seek to impose your opinions on this list. Shuddha   From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 15 19:39:39 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 07:09:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <913035.57319.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Rakesh   Thank you but was no need to apologise. Just a matter of keeping things factual in public record and especially of the Sarai Reader List kind that gets circulated quite a lot.   Kshmendra --- On Sat, 8/15/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: From: Rakesh Iyer Subject: Re: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately To: "A.K. Malik" Cc: "Kshmendra Kaul" , "Sarai List" Date: Saturday, August 15, 2009, 7:26 PM Dear Kshamendra I am extremely sorry for misreporting the fact, but I forgot as I was typing. However, misreporting can't have any excuses, and I apologize for the same, with the intention that I will ensure this isn't repeated in the future. Apologies for the same. Regards Rakesh From shuddha at sarai.net Sat Aug 15 19:41:12 2009 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 19:41:12 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <214742.77815.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <214742.77815.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8A287298-DAD5-4B3D-A1BB-DD3534406BD6@sarai.net> On the other, other, hand, Just as the members of the non aligned movement, such as Egypt and India, while locking themselves into military alliances with superpowers, are so, so, so, non-aligned ? And by the way, ask any arab christian what they call god, and the answer is likely to be Allah. At least that was what i heard in a syrian orthodox liturgy in a damascus church. So are we going to call arab christians, muslims now? best Shuddha On 15-Aug-09, at 7:30 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Shuddha > > On the other hand .... > > Countries that are members of the OIC could be seen as having > declared themselves as "Islamic" even if there is no other such > declaration in their 'official name' or 'laws'. > > That would include all the countries you have mentioned with 2 > exceptions.. Kosovo is not a member and Bosnia Herzegovina has > Observer Status. > > Any ambiguities in the recognition that I have proposed will be > largely dealt with by studying the various aspects of the OIC > http://www.oic-oci.org/home.asp > > The Flag of OIC incidentally is said to declare "Allah u Akbar". > Not much ambiguity in that. > http://flagspot.net/flags/int-oic.html#desc > > Kshmendra > > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta shuddha at sarai.net > Sat Aug 15 17:49:34 IST 2009 > > Murali, > > Jeebesh is right, except that Indonesia is the worlds largest (by > population) Muslim countriy. Not the second largest. And here is a > list of 19 other Muslim majority countries that are not Islamic > states, or do not have Islam listed as state religion. > > Burkina Faso, Gambia, Guinea, Mali, Senegal, Chad, Djibouti, > Indonesia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgystan, Tajikstan, Turkmenistan, > Uzbekistan, Albania, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, > Palestinian Authority and Turkey. > > There are several other countries, which recognize Islam as a state > religion, such as Egypt but are still not 'Islamic States', that is, > they are not governed by Islamic law > > Only a third category of states, which includes, Iran, Saudi Arabia, > Pakistan, Afghanistan etc, can be strictly called Islamic States, in > that they are partially or wholly governed by Islamic law and > recognize the Sharia as a source of law and jurisprudence. > > Please take the trouble to make credible and factual statements as > far as possible when you seek to impose your opinions on this list. > > Shuddha > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 20:05:50 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:05:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <8A287298-DAD5-4B3D-A1BB-DD3534406BD6@sarai.net> References: <214742.77815.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <8A287298-DAD5-4B3D-A1BB-DD3534406BD6@sarai.net> Message-ID: Dear Kshamendra, Shuddha, Rajen and Murali ji (and rest as well) If the issue is simply that whether the minorities must be allowed in any nation to profess, practice and preach their religion and have the right to construct monuments (subjected to certain restrictions like not destroying the right of others to do the same etc.), then it must be allowed. And if Islamic nations don't allow it, then it's wrong and incorrect to do so. And if anybody says that India should also do the same for its minorities, it shall also be wrong. However, we can't control the actions of any other state except for protesting against their unjust actions. What we can do is control the actions of our own state (simply meaning the state which we are a citizen of) through public action/pressure and public discussion. Therefore, even if Islamic states don't allow minorities the right of worship, it's the duty of the Indian state not to deprive the minorities of the same if they (minorities) exist in its territory. It's against human rights, and also the Constitution of India. Therefore, how does it matter whether a nation is Islamic or not is something I don't understand. And to portray the Muslims of the world as a homogeneous entity (as those believing in the Ummah or the Al-Qaeda) or even painting them in the same color, is something I have strong reservations about because each individual has some particular thoughts or beliefs of his/her own, which are influenced by society, but which can be different from it as well. All of them can't be regarded to speak in one single voice. Therefore, it's wrong to portray the actions of some of the states (which even their citizens may not support necessarily) as the true picture of Islam. In Afghanistan, people watched Amitabh Bachchan and Shahrukh Khan movies through piracy before the Taliban ruined it all. And this returned to a certain extent once the Taliban was out of power. In Pakistan, people watched saas-bahu serials like in our Indian cities, when relayed through Indian TV channels (useless anyways, but shows similar interests of women on either side of the border). People protested when their relaying was banned by the govt. there. And recently, there were protests on the issue of political freedom in Iran (to have a govt elected by fair means), another Islamic country where election results were supposedly manipulated, and which have been discussed in this forum as well. Therefore, to assume that people of those nations don't want freedom or dont' require it, is to suffer from collective amnesia, or be out of touch with reality. (Even if they don't want it, they deserve it, if nothing else, then just for rejecting the choice to have choices). Just because the elites form policies and the clergy supports it doesn't mean that the policy has the support of all the people whom the elites rule over. Believing so would mean that Babur's and Aurangzeb's policies of war and destruction of temples (and even discrimination) had whole-hearted support from both Muslims and Hindus living in the territories of the Mughal Empire. And that, all would accept, is a foolish thing to believe. Regards Rakesh From shahzulf at yahoo.com Sat Aug 15 20:11:04 2009 From: shahzulf at yahoo.com (Zulfiqar Shah) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 07:41:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Sindh: Call for New Constitution Message-ID: <725750.80240.qm@web38804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sindh: Call for New Constitution   Daily Dawn Karachi August 14, 2009   HYDERABAD: Validity of 1973 Constitution has come to an end due to continuous undemocratic interventions, extra-constitutional amendments and its inherent flaws.   The current constitution could not resolve the intra-state political and economic conflicts, Sindh political and civil society activists said here on Wednesday while initiating an effective discussion to design what they said a comprehensive list of demands acceptable to all.   The 1973 Constitution should work for an interim period leading to a new constitution based on 1940 resolution through a new elected constituent assembly.   That constitution would work as a new social contract among the federating units of Pakistan , they said.   In a consultative workshop jointly organised by the South Asia Partnership Pakistan (SAP-PK), Centre for Peace and Civil Society (CPCS) and We Journalists, they introduced a draft of demands to have a consensus by people representing sections of society.   According to them, time is ripe now to form a list of national demands, acceptable to political parties, civil society groups and other segments of society.   Veteran politician Rasool Bux Palijo, Taraqi Passand Party chairman Dr Qadir Magsi, Save Sindh Movement chief Shah Mohammad Shah, senior Marxist Jam Saqi, Abdul Khaliq Junejo of the Jeay Sindh Mahaz (JSM), Dr Dodo Maheri of the Sindh United Party, Abrar Qazi of the Sindh Democratic Forum, CPCS Executive Director Jami Chandio, We Journalist head Jaffar Memon, SAP Pakistan Sindh coordinator Zulfiqar Shah and a large number of intellectuals, civil society representatives, writers and activists took active part in the discussion.   They emphasized the need to bring constitutional reforms to avoid further uncertainty among the provinces. They also discussed the National Finance Commission (NFC) award, local people’s rights to natural resources and provincial autonomy.   They were of the view that Pakistan had become a structurally imbalanced federation after the separation of East Pakistan ( Bangladesh ). One province dominated all the state institutions and enjoyed an absolute majority in parliament over the other three provinces.   Military should have no role and stake in politics and public life, they said and suggested that armed forces should be downsized and should have equal representation from all the provinces. Some of the speakers said that if a province called for centre’s help to maintain the law and order, like Pakistan Rangers functioning in Sindh for the purpose, it should be clarified as to who would bear the expenses. The centre should bear the cost.   They said Sindh spent a major chunk of its budget on Rangers for maintaining the law and order, which affected the development work in the province.   They said illegal immigrants should have no right to purchase and get land on lease in Sindh and cast vote. GST and Excise taxes were provincial subjects and they should be given to provinces, instead of the centre, they urged.   Mr Rasool Bux Palijo said the elected representatives, instead of launching welfare projects, were working against Sindh and its people. They were the enemies of the people, he said, adding that the prime minister, representing the PPP, says the government wanted to build Kalabagh dam which would devastate Sindh.   Shah Mohammad Shah said the stakeholders should have an accurate charter of demands. Mohammad Ali Shah said it was a good start regarding the new social contract and it should be extended to other provinces.   Courtesy: http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/provinces/13+opinion-makers+of+sindh+call+for+new+constitution-za-04 ________________________________ Get your preferred Email name! Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail.com. ________________________________ Get your new Email address! Grab the Email name you've always wanted before someone else does! Get your preferred Email name! Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail.com. http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/aa/ From shahzulf at yahoo.com Sat Aug 15 20:12:06 2009 From: shahzulf at yahoo.com (Zulfiqar Shah) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 07:42:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Video Clips of Sindh Peasants Long March on YouTube Message-ID: <919271.30573.qm@web38802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear All,   Bellow are the links of the video clips available on YouTube about Sindh Peasants Long March for Land Reforms organized by South Asia Partnership Pakistan and Sindh Agrarian Reforms Committee on February 15 – 26, 2009 from Hyderabad to Sindh Assembly Building Karachi.   Links:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbq3fIu9GEc   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUDazy_7zMQ   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emTDqEYpIXo   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5d3D7tWZ_I   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCumZN2g7mY   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT8YzgagH6w   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TBO8SOQUA4   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k-MogKRNJ0   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfZJGhrhKXo   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5d3D7tWZ_I   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp6Ye13aHeE   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgVumD8VV6M   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLADjmFh-hc   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MjH-pX_KF4   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU-A3Wfy0Tw   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTmTPviztjU   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2UxBmRBgXk   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxGGbz-BFgM   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y90l7KxECv8 ________________________________ Get your preferred Email name! Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail.com. ________________________________ New Email addresses available on Yahoo! Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail. Hurry before someone else does! ________________________________ Get your preferred Email name! Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail.com. ________________________________ Get your preferred Email name! Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail.com. ________________________________ Get your new Email address! Grab the Email name you've always wanted before someone else does! ________________________________ Get your preferred Email name! Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail.com. ________________________________ Get your new Email address! Grab the Email name you've always wanted before someone else does! ________________________________ Get your preferred Email name! Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail.com. ________________________________ New Email names for you! Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail. Hurry before someone else does! Get your preferred Email name! Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail.com. http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/aa/ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 20:22:31 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:22:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: References: <214742.77815.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <8A287298-DAD5-4B3D-A1BB-DD3534406BD6@sarai.net> Message-ID: Dear all As an interesting measure, India also wanted to get observer status in the OIC (possibly with the view of joining the organization). I wonder if that would have happened, would it have been termed as an Islamic state. Regards Rakesh Article: http://www.rediff.com/news/2006/jan/23saudi1.htm Pak disapproves Saudi king's comments on India's OIC entry Disagreeing with Saudi King Abdullah's comments on India's entry into the Organisation of Islamic Conference, Pakistan Monday pointed out to the rule of the grouping of Islamic countries -- that new aspirants should not have disputes with member states, an apparent reference to the Kashmir [ Images] problem. "Giving observer status to non-Muslim countries is under discussion. A committee has been appointed. The criteria, apart from what is being worked out, is that any country which wishes to acquire observer status with the OIC should not be involved in any dispute with a member state," Pakistan Foreign Office spokesperson Tasnim Aslam told reporters in Islamabad She was reacting to King Abdullah's comments that India should have observer status at the OIC similar to that held by Russia and it would be "beneficial" if New Delhi's entry was put forward "by a nation like Pakistan". Asked if Pakistan was concerned over the Saudi king's three-day visit to India beginning Tuesday, Aslam said, "We do not put embargo on our friends. They can have bilateral relations with other countries." She declined to get into discussion when asked whether Saudi Arabia has begun "hyphenating" its relations with India and Pakistan much on the lines of United States policy of having friendly relations with both countries. "We do not have any veto on any country's relations with another nor did any country have a veto on Pakistan's policy towards other countries," she said. From jeebesh at sarai.net Sat Aug 15 20:34:10 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:34:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: References: <214742.77815.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <8A287298-DAD5-4B3D-A1BB-DD3534406BD6@sarai.net> Message-ID: dear Rakesh, the point you raise are significant. the conceptual fusion of state with the people keeps lot of thinking going. the assumption is that the social fabric is the state. and state is all of the society. well even orwell did not gesture to this kind of fusion! so much of the posting here assumes this fusion. on the other hand anyone can see that states are becoming more powerful and coercive. instead of asking why would this be happening, we are told that it the nature of the people that demands this. and if you can give an ethnic or an religious turn to the people, then the argument is suppose to totally buffer itself from any further investigation. if we could unpack this assumed fusion, maybe we can return some dignity back to the generative social tissues that we all see around us. warmly jeebesh On 15-Aug-09, at 8:05 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > Therefore, to assume that people of those nations don't want freedom > or > dont' require it, is to suffer from collective amnesia, or be out of > touch > with reality. (Even if they don't want it, they deserve it, if > nothing else, > then just for rejecting the choice to have choices). Just because > the elites > form policies and the clergy supports it doesn't mean that the > policy has > the support of all the people whom the elites rule over. Believing > so would > mean that Babur's and Aurangzeb's policies of war and destruction of > temples > (and even discrimination) had whole-hearted support from both > Muslims and > Hindus living in the territories of the Mughal Empire. And that, all > would > accept, is a foolish thing to believe. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Aug 15 21:09:54 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:39:54 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Highlights_of_PM=92s_Independence_?= =?windows-1252?q?Day_speech_-_198?= In-Reply-To: <0917C461-29B1-4AFD-B796-D9FE79CF49A9@sarai.net> References: <65be9bf40908150524i55f06a9axb47e2f3812dc8833@mail.gmail.com> <0917C461-29B1-4AFD-B796-D9FE79CF49A9@sarai.net> Message-ID: <65be9bf40908150839v33f31c6eh7bad760118d9261c@mail.gmail.com> When was the, 'self claimed unprecedented period of 10 years' even mentioned ? Who mentioned it? From jeebesh at sarai.net Sat Aug 15 21:56:49 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:56:49 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Highlights_of_PM=92s_Independence_?= =?windows-1252?q?Day_speech_-_198?= In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40908150839v33f31c6eh7bad760118d9261c@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40908150524i55f06a9axb47e2f3812dc8833@mail.gmail.com> <0917C461-29B1-4AFD-B796-D9FE79CF49A9@sarai.net> <65be9bf40908150839v33f31c6eh7bad760118d9261c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20FEE02C-99B3-4E29-BAEC-669AA77CF2DB@sarai.net> *Country is witnessing unprecedented economic growth at present, and is likely to be similar this year as well. Country has not witnessed such consistently high growth rates since 1996." a little more than 10 years. On 15-Aug-09, at 9:09 PM, Taha Mehmood wrote: > When was the, 'self claimed unprecedented period of 10 years' even > mentioned ? Who mentioned it? > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sat Aug 15 22:22:59 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:52:59 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Highlights_of_PM=92s_Independence_?= =?windows-1252?q?Day_speech_-_198?= In-Reply-To: <20FEE02C-99B3-4E29-BAEC-669AA77CF2DB@sarai.net> References: <65be9bf40908150524i55f06a9axb47e2f3812dc8833@mail.gmail.com> <0917C461-29B1-4AFD-B796-D9FE79CF49A9@sarai.net> <65be9bf40908150839v33f31c6eh7bad760118d9261c@mail.gmail.com> <20FEE02C-99B3-4E29-BAEC-669AA77CF2DB@sarai.net> Message-ID: <65be9bf40908150952i27dc0a43qc2990b53623b4788@mail.gmail.com> it's seems to be a case of smart juggling of words to me. A clever play of semantics and syntactic order to suggest new meaning. -Unprecedented growth- seems to be lower than -high growth- according to the quote you pasted... You may have a point here, but I am sure you would have done the same, had you been made to get up at six thirty in the morning and address your beloved motherland while looking at a bunch of school children getting drenched in morning showers. From murali.chalam at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 22:26:17 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:26:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: References: <214742.77815.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <8A287298-DAD5-4B3D-A1BB-DD3534406BD6@sarai.net> Message-ID: <4eab87870908150956v6f2bd274l79f5e8e2bacb9d8a@mail.gmail.com> Profess, practice and preach is fine, but not seduction. Democracy takes atmost significance. Regards. V Murali On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Kshamendra, Shuddha, Rajen and Murali ji (and rest as well) > > If the issue is simply that whether the minorities must be allowed in any > nation to profess, practice and preach their religion and have the right to > construct monuments (subjected to certain restrictions like not destroying > the right of others to do the same etc.), then it must be allowed. And if > Islamic nations don't allow it, then it's wrong and incorrect to do so. And > if anybody says that India should also do the same for its minorities, it > shall also be wrong. > > However, we can't control the actions of any other state except for > protesting against their unjust actions. What we can do is control the > actions of our own state (simply meaning the state which we are a citizen > of) through public action/pressure and public discussion. Therefore, even if > Islamic states don't allow minorities the right of worship, it's the duty of > the Indian state not to deprive the minorities of the same if they > (minorities) exist in its territory. It's against human rights, and also the > Constitution of India. > > Therefore, how does it matter whether a nation is Islamic or not is > something I don't understand. > > And to portray the Muslims of the world as a homogeneous entity (as those > believing in the Ummah or the Al-Qaeda) or even painting them in the same > color, is something I have strong reservations about because each individual > has some particular thoughts or beliefs of his/her own, which are influenced > by society, but which can be different from it as well. All of them can't be > regarded to speak in one single voice. Therefore, it's wrong to portray the > actions of some of the states (which even their citizens may not support > necessarily) as the true picture of Islam. > > In Afghanistan, people watched Amitabh Bachchan and Shahrukh Khan movies > through piracy before the Taliban ruined it all. And this returned to a > certain extent once the Taliban was out of power. In Pakistan, people > watched saas-bahu serials like in our Indian cities, when relayed through > Indian TV channels (useless anyways, but shows similar interests of women on > either side of the border). People protested when their relaying was banned > by the govt. there. And recently, there were protests on the issue of > political freedom in Iran (to have a govt elected by fair means), another > Islamic country where election results were supposedly manipulated, and > which have been discussed in this forum as well. > > Therefore, to assume that people of those nations don't want freedom or > dont' require it, is to suffer from collective amnesia, or be out of touch > with reality. (Even if they don't want it, they deserve it, if nothing else, > then just for rejecting the choice to have choices). Just because the elites > form policies and the clergy supports it doesn't mean that the policy has > the support of all the people whom the elites rule over. Believing so would > mean that Babur's and Aurangzeb's policies of war and destruction of temples > (and even discrimination) had whole-hearted support from both Muslims and > Hindus living in the territories of the Mughal Empire. And that, all would > accept, is a foolish thing to believe. > > Regards > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From murali.chalam at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 22:30:43 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:30:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Map of Mughalistan Message-ID: <4eab87870908151000s585225dfxb5b5dde1d926033c@mail.gmail.com> Please read the following article. http://newstodaynet.com/col.php?section=20&catid=33 REgards, V Murali From rahulroy63 at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 10:57:22 2009 From: rahulroy63 at gmail.com (Rahul Roy) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 10:57:22 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [DFA NewsLetter] Fwd: Delhi Screening: Morality TV aur Loving Jehad:Ek Manohar Kahani In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Paromita Vohra Date: Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:34 AM Subject: Delhi Screening: Morality TV aur Loving Jehad:Ek Manohar Kahani To: Paromita Vohra PSBT will hold a screening of this film in Delhi. Please do try to see it and let others who may be interested know WHEN: TUESDAY, AUGUST 11, 2009, 6.30 PM WHERE: GULMOHAR HALL, INDIA HABITAT CENTRE, LODHI ROAD NEW DELHI - 110003 Telephone: +91-11-24682001-24682009 ABOUT THE FILM MORALITY TV AUR LOVING JEHAD: EK MANOHAR KAHANI (MORALITY TV AND THE LOVING JEHAD: A THRILLING TALE) (31 MIN. COLOUR, DV, HINDI WITH ENGLISH SUBTITLES) SYNOPSIS In the winter of 2005 Indians switched on their TV sets to watch yet another ³breaking news² story, but one which shocked them. In the town of Meerut, police officers, mostly women, swooped down on lovers in a park and began to beat them up. Along with them they took photographers and news cameramen with the promise of an exclusive sting operation. As images of the operation played again and again on every news channel, Meerut saw some of the couples run away out of fear and shame and serial protests for and against the event, which also made the news for some days. What is the story of this news story? The film looks outside the frames that weave the frenetic tapestry of Breaking News on India¹s news channels to uncover a town¹s complex dynamics ­ the fear of love, the constant scrutiny and control of women¹s mobility and sexuality, a history of communal violence, caste brutalization and feudal equations. Assuming the tone of pulp fiction and tabloid features it examines the legacy of this kind of story telling, from the relishing accounts of true crime magazines like Manohar Kahaniyan to the double morality of pulp detective fiction to the tabloid news on Indian TV, to unfold a thrilling but disturbing tale of its own. CREDITS Producer: PSBT, Director and Writer: Paromita Vohra, Camera: Avijit Mukul Kishore Editing: Sankalp Meshram, Sound: Samina Mishra, Music: Chirantan Bhatt, Narrator: Lovleen Mishra TO READ MORE ABOUT THE FILM http://www.hindu.com/mag/2008/05/04/stories/2008050450110400.htm http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report_what-ails-breaking-news_1175188 -- Paromita Vohra DEVI PICTURES D404, Trans Apartments Mahakali Caves Road Andheri (E) Bombay 400093 Tel: 91.22.28377960 Cell: 91.9819377960 Email:parodevi at gmail.com "The Emperor has no clothes" --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Please DO NOT REPLY to the sender. To contact the MODERATOR: delhifilmarchive [at] gmail.com To UNSUBSCRIBE: send an email to delhifilmarchive-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com More OPTIONS are on the web: http://groups.google.com/group/delhifilmarchive Our WEBSITE: www.delhifilmarchive.org -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From contactus at indiaifa.org Mon Aug 10 11:08:09 2009 From: contactus at indiaifa.org (India Foundation for the Arts) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:08:09 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Invitation to the screening of The Other Song Message-ID: <20090810053809.236B6370D3A@md70.mailserve.net>  Bangalore International Centre in collaboration with  India Foundation for the Arts   Cordially invite you to the screening of the film   The Other Song   Directed by Saba Dewan  (This film was funded by India Foundation for the Arts’s Arts Research and Documentation programme in 2002 and 2005) The screening will be followed by a Q&A session with the film maker Venue:   Bangalore International Centre, Bangalore Date:   August 29, 2009 Time:   6.00 pm (Entry is free) Please register with Bangalore International Centre on 25359680 You may also RSVP Vindya on contactus at indiaifa.org     In 1935, Rasoolan bai, the well known singer from Varanasi, recorded for the Gramaphone a thumri that she would never sing again- ‘Lagat job anwa ma chot, phool gendwa na maar’ (My breasts are wonded, don’t throw flowers at me). A variation of her more famous song -  ‘Lagat Karejwa ma chot, phool gendwa na maar’ ( My heart is  wounded, don’t throw flowers at me), the 1935 recording, never to be repeated, faded from public memory and eventually got lost.   India Foundation for the Arts (IFA) is an independent, nationwide philanthropy, professionally managed, and dedicated to strengthening the arts in India.  IFA has funded 249 projects across 22 states dedicating a sum of 13.4 crore to the Arts. We support research and practice leading to films, books, artworks, archives, exhibitions and performances. We help to bring the arts into the classroom. We fund the preservation and transmission of valuable cultural knowledge. We offer advice, information and expertise related to the Indian arts.   From press at tank.tv Tue Aug 11 17:43:28 2009 From: press at tank.tv (tank.tv press) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:13:28 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Florence Lazar on www.tank.tv : 12th August - 1st September 2009. Message-ID: <78c84f090908110513wb839f28h441cf7ccddbdaa31@mail.gmail.com> *Florence Lazar 12 August - 1st September 2009 on www.tank.tv * *tank.tv is pleased to present a selection of work made by the French artist Florence Lazar.* Since the late 1990s Florence Lazar has been creating work about the situation in Former-Yugoslavia. The events in the region have led her to explore questions of identity and politics in a post-conflict situation. Mostly motionless her camera stresses the presence of the artist which is characterised by the absence of verbal or physical intervention. Similar to that of a mute interlocutor Lazar's position creates a space that belongs to the people she films, a space that is shaped by their testimonies on war, politics and identity. Embracing the role of artist as ethnographer Lazar's films establish a network of multiple meanings between history, people and herself. Her oeuvre creates several entry points to sensitive questions and by enabling minor voices to speak she indicates that realist is always multi-layered. Florence Lazar was born in 1966 and studied at the Ecole Nationale des Beaux-Arts in Paris where she lives and works. This exhibition was kindly supported by Paris Calling. www.tank.tv -- -- - - - - - - - - - - - - tank.tv 2nd Floor Princess House 50 - 60 Eastcastle Street London W1W 8EA press at tank.tv T: +44 (0)207323 3475 F: +44 (0)207631 4280 http://www.tank.tv - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Now showing: Jacco Olivier 22nd July - 11th August 2009 Fresh Moves - Out now! Order your copy on www.tank.tv "A significant archive of creative practices in the early years of twenty-first century England" Tyler Coburn, Tomorrow Unlimited --- tank.tv is an inspirational showcase for innovative work in film and video. Dedicated to exhibiting and promoting emerging and established international artists, www.tank.tv acts as a major online gallery and archive for video art. A platform for contemporary moving images. From kokopeli at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 23:10:17 2009 From: kokopeli at gmail.com (Sujata & Samantak) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:10:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Go, Fly A Kite! In-Reply-To: <08647F77-B9F6-4D74-8902-4BD541B79270@sarai.net> References: <08647F77-B9F6-4D74-8902-4BD541B79270@sarai.net> Message-ID: <556b1d6b0908151040ra4d9f60o25cd299cdfe11a2d@mail.gmail.com> Dear Shuddha, Thank you for your wonderfully evocative piece on the "pornography" of state rituals on occasions like Independence Day and Republic Day. Your description of the mandatory flag hoisting and the expressions of those involved in these tragicomic moments was marvellously accurate and close to the bone. But, you know, there are still a few places and a few institutions where Independence Day and Republic Day are not mere empty (and, for their participants, slightly irritating) events, where "quiet, sober and personal reflection on what liberty might mean", as you put it, does take place, where the bloodletting of Partition is mourned and a quiet moment observed in memory of those whose blood was shed. These places are never, thankfully, in the glare of the media, nor are the institutions which organise such events usually located in cities. I know of several such small, rural NGOs and schools (or NGOs which run schools), where I have been privileged to observe precisely the kind of "celebration" of our freedom that would be, I think, more to your liking (and perhaps others who are on this list). And quite often, after the songs and the poems, the dances and the speeches, we have gone off to fly our kites before sitting down to a good wholesome (late) lunch and dozed off gently in the midst of a drowsy discussion of what freedom means... Happy Independence Day! Samantak 2009/8/15 Shuddhabrata Sengupta > Dear all, > > Here is the slightly longer, original version of a text by me on Kite > Flying that appeare in the latest issue of Outlook, to mark the 15th > of August. The version published in Outlook, titled 'Freedom on A > String' is at http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?261336 > > Apologies for cross posting on Kafila > > best > > Shuddha > > ------------------------- > > > > Go, Fly a Kite > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > There is almost nothing about rituals of statehood that appeals to > me. The speeches leave me cold and patriotic anthems are the worst, > most ponderous form of music ever performed or invented. As for the > pomp and circumstance of parades and other solemn but pathetic > attempts at grandeur - they only repeat their lessons in how distant > the apparatus of the state actually is from the lives of citizens. > > Typically, my attention, when flags are raised up poles, is less on > the flag and more on the sweat on the brow of the man doing most of > the actual hoisting. Because flags, like nations, get stuck in their > destinies, and sometimes have to be tugged at vigorously to open and > flap about, or let loose their meagre shower of yesterday's > desiccated flower petals. The palpable anxiety of the hoister (who is > worried about what might get written into his confidential report if > the string snaps, or the flag stay’s tied up) and the thinly masked > frustration on the visage of the attendant dignitary, (be they the > principal of a school or the president of a republic ) who wants it > all over and done with as quickly as possible, are the two > performances that I find most moving on these moments. Apart, that > is, from the sporadic defecations of ceremonial cavalry horses, > caparisoned elephants and aloof camels brought out to lend the parade > of the moment a touch of bio-diversity. Somehow, they ring truer than > most other attempts to mark such occasions. > > Republic Day, with its pornography of ordnance, enormous waste of > public money and tacky tableaux is probably the worst offender, but > Independence Day, with its schoolchildren bused out to the Red Fort > in Delhi and made to suffer the humiliation of security checks at the > crack of a humid dawn, doesn't rank far behind. They, (the > schoolchildren at Red Fort) lose a well-earned holiday, and nowadays, > the rest of India gets a pious homily from behind bullet-proof glass. > Rather than being an occasion for quiet, sober and perhaps personal > reflection on what liberty might mean (especially when so many > subjects of this republic are denied its substance) and whether it > really needs to come all dressed up in the masquerade of a hollow > state ritual, Independence Day has become an empty vessel for an > increasingly narcissistic commemoration of what it means to simply > 'be' Indian, as if that were of any real consequence. Meanwhile, the > violence that marked partition, co-incident with 'Independence', goes > un-mourned in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. The bizarre > continuities, ranging from law and governance to the arcana of state > ceremonials, between colonialism and its posthumous progeny - > republican nationhood, remain un-reflected upon. What we get instead > is an annual faux carnival of top-ten lists to do with an invented > 'Indian-ness' dished out by magazines and television decked out in > tri-colour bad taste. > > But there is something about the fifteenth of August that still > means a lot to me, and that isn't about flying flags. It's about > flying kites. The fifteenth of August, as anyone growing up in North > India ought to know, is really all about manja and pench, about > letting loose a full throated cry 'bho-katta', when an airborne kite > snaps from its string in the sky, and the mad run and skirmish for > its capture that follows before it hits the earth. Its about > decoding a persons passions from the colours they choose for their > kites, about learning to test the strength of paper and to sense the > wind by licking your finger. These, and other elementary lessons in > areodynamics are still reasons to look forward to the fifteenth of > August each year. > > Perhaps it's a throwback to the boyhood thrill of holding a taut kite- > string in the precarious rooftops and bylanes of a ‘refuzee’ colony > in west Delhi, head cocked up, eyes locked in a steadfast gaze intent > on scanning the clouded August sky, tracking distant, tiny but > majestic diamonds of colour as the kites danced to the wind. Their > flight taught me more about ‘attaining liberty’ and their spiralling > descent more about ‘losing it’ than all the civics lessons on the > meaning and significance of ‘Independence Day’ ever could. > > Anand Bakshi, in writing the lyrics for the film Kati Patang, > (Drifting Kite) did not know that he had, perhaps unwittingly gifted > us with the one of the most pithy ways of thinking about the destiny > of nationhood and nationalism, that at least I know about. As the > song goes, 'Na koi umang hai, na koi tarang hai', - there is neither > a surge, nor a wave. Ships of state adrift in still, motionless > waters, their flags just about fluttering in a spent tailwind, are to > me like so many kati patang, drifting kites; neither surge, nor wave, > and certainly no pious ritual, can lift them out of their torpor. > > What can one do, in such circumstances, but heed the call of Mary > Poppins and her friends, Mr. Banks and Bert, and simply, 'go fly a > kite'. > > "With tuppence for paper and strings > > You can have your own set of wings > > With your feet on the ground > > You're a bird in a flight > > With your fist holding tight > > To the string of your kite > > > > Oh, oh, oh! > > Let's go fly a kite > > Up to the highest height! > > Let's go fly a kite and send it soaring > > Up through the atmosphere > > Up where the air is clear > > Oh, let's go fly a kite!' > > > > > > > > > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From yasir.media at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 00:03:05 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?eWFzaXIgftmK2Kcg2LPYsQ==?=) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:33:05 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Map of Mughalistan In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908151000s585225dfxb5b5dde1d926033c@mail.gmail.com> References: <4eab87870908151000s585225dfxb5b5dde1d926033c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5af37bb0908151133m5937cf09g69ae176f06eb7bab@mail.gmail.com> fun to read, but I have trouble taking this with any degree of seriousness. (even if it came directly from a jamaate islami or any (low-)intellegence agency. best On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Murali V wrote: > Please read the following article. > > http://newstodaynet.com/col.php?section=20&catid=33 > > REgards, > V Murali > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From chandni.parekh at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 01:31:07 2009 From: chandni.parekh at gmail.com (Chandni Parekh) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 01:31:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Grants for Educational Infrastructure and Facilities In-Reply-To: <842620.35299.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <842620.35299.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello Mr Malik, There's another way to get the information you're seeking. By connecting with them. Here's their contact details... in case you haven't e-/snail mailed them already: *Mr. Asif Iqbal, IRS * Secretary Maulana Azad Education Foundation (Ministry of Minority Affairs, Govt. of India) Social Justice Service Centre, Chelmsford Road Opposite New Delhi Railway Reservation Centre New Delhi 110055 Contact No. +91-11-23583788/23583789 Fax No. +91-11-23561945 Email: iqbalasif786 at gmail.com - Chandni 2009/8/15 A.K. Malik > Hi Ms Parekh, > I had an opportunity to go thr the link and tumbled upon the > link on Maulana Azad Education Foundation which is sponsoring the > Scholarships to Girl Students belonging to minorities.I have gone thr the > achievements of the Foundation which is doing a good job.The Foundation is a > Society controlled by the Ministry of Minority Affairs.Some of my > observations are: > 1. The Foundation has been in existence since 1989 almost 20 years back. > > 2. The Foundation lists aims and objects for which this Foundation is > established,inter alia, as > i) to remove educational backwardness, and create awareness about > the national ideals of JUSTICE, LIBERTY, EQUALITY AND FRATERNITY AND > DEMOCRACY, SECULARISM and SOCIALISM; > ii) to formulate and implement educational schemes and plans for the > benefit of the educationally backward minorities in particular and weaker > sections in general. > > 3.Scholarship allocation is only to Muslims,Christians,Sikhs,Buddhists and > Parsis as per census of 2001. > > 4.All the nominated members are Muslims from various fields. > > Now my curosity: > a) The Govt has so far given a Corpus of Rs 331.66 Crores to the > Foundation, why the Foundation has not been able to find even a single GIRL > belonging to the weaker sections in general in the last 20 years to receive > the scholarship. > (aims and object ii above) > b) Why the Foundation has not been able to find even a single Qualified > member for Nomination from minority other than Muslims like > Christian,Sikh,Buddhist,Parsi etc. > Any Comments please.I know the other way is to get info by RTI application. > Regards, > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 05:51:53 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 05:51:53 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Map of Mughalistan In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0908151133m5937cf09g69ae176f06eb7bab@mail.gmail.com> References: <4eab87870908151000s585225dfxb5b5dde1d926033c@mail.gmail.com> <5af37bb0908151133m5937cf09g69ae176f06eb7bab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Murali Let me speak of another assumption which is wrong again. In India, you would also agree, that the bureaucracy (along with our political class, in general) is one of the most corrupt in the world. Our record of corruption prevention is the most pathetic. And I have not seen any one individual in the middle class, who feels corruption is right or fair or just. Though he/she may have given a bribe (and some of them may have even accepted), in general they have accepted that corruption is wrong. But I haven't seen the middle class venting out their anger on the streets against corruption, unlike say some of the tribal members or say in some cases the poor people who may go on dharnas (like in case of RTI which was a movement against corruption). Does that mean that the middle class supports corruption? If I were to accept your arguments as of now, I would have to accept this as well. The assumption that because Muslims don't go out on the streets protesting terror attacks (unlike say in case of Danish cartoons), they support the terror attacks is wrong. Infact, Muslims have a double-edged fear; on one hand is the fear of losing their lives in the blast, on the other is losing their life of dignity by being captured as the 'mastermind' of a terror attack. After the Ahmedabad blasts, each day the mastermind used to change. And of course, the way the police investigated the Aarushi murder case is out there in the public domain for everybody to look at. My argument therefore is that just because someone doesn't come out on the street does not necessarily mean that he/she supports the opposite of those who do come out. Hence, making such assumptions is wrong and must be seriously avoided. Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 06:39:27 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 06:39:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 15 Message-ID: Source: The Hindu Date: Friday, Apr 25, 2003 Link: http://www.hinduonnet.com/2003/04/25/stories/2003042502231300.htm Article: National [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] * Towards an accurate BPL survey * By Our Staff Correspondent NEW DELHI APRIL 24. When Government officers are sent to villages to conduct a survey of the people living below the poverty line (BPL), all they do is stay put in the house of the `sarpanch' and write the report on the basis of what he feeds them. This is a common practice across the country and it also happens in the constituencies of the Prime Minister and the Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister. Little wonder then that the below poverty line survey reports are never considered authentic. But all this may soon be a thing of the past. "This time, when the officers came for the survey, a group of women went to the sarpanch's house and wanted them to actually visit every house for an accurate survey. The men did go to the houses but the kind of questions they asked were totally irrelevant,'' says Raj Dulari. She was one of the women participants at the "Sangharsh Sabha", which seeks a new food policy to provide low-priced foodgrains and work for all. The day-long convention was organised by the All-India Democratic Women's Association (AIDWA) here today to mark 10 years of the 73rd and 74th Constitutional amendment. "The Prime Minister and the Chief Minister could do us a great favour by diverting the money spent in organising rallies for setting up industries where the poor and Dalits could get jobs," says Raj Dulari. Laxmibai of Rangareddy district in Andhra Pradesh has another story to tell. The foodgrain received under various Government schemes is either sold in the blackmarket or the sarpanchs refuse to distribute it. "The Government has also increased the prices of the subsidised foodgrain from Rs. 2 per kg to Rs. 5.50 per kg and reduced the quantity to 4 kg per head. The result is that the people are forced to sell their young daughters, mortgage their wives or even commit suicide," she said. The convention resolved to intensify women's struggle for a new food policy based on the universalisation of the Public Distribution System, low-priced and edible foodgrain and employment guarantee schemes. It supported the strike call given by the trade unions on May 21 and appealed to all sections to include as an important demand the right to food and work. Reiterating their demand for the passage of the Women's Reservation Bill, the participants said that the official definition `empowerment' was meaningless without addressing vital issues, the most important being the guarantee of the right to food and work for women. Inaugurating the convention, the CPI (M) leader, Harkishen Singh Surjeet, said the Government did not seem committed to pass the Women's Reservation Bill since it had been a decade since women were given reservation in Panchayats. "When large sections of women are struggling just to ensure the survival of their families and themselves, the full potential of 73rd and 74th amendment cannot be realised. Thus, the demand for food and work is related to strengthening the processes of democracy and women's participation," said Brinda Karat of the AIDWA. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 06:41:45 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 06:41:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 15 Message-ID: Source: Frontline Issue & Date: *Volume 22 - Issue 09, Apr. 23 - May. 06, 2005* Link: http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2209/stories/20050506000904900.htm Article: *Death by hunger * ANNIE ZAIDI *in Sheopur* * Malnutrition deaths of children in a tribal hamlet point to the general state of welfare programmes in Madhya Pradesh. * TWO-YEAR-OLD Suresh Sahariya of Patalgarh village has just been discharged from the district hospital in Sheopur, Madhya Pradesh. With his distended stomach, hollow eyes, and decaying and falling teeth, it seems a miracle that he has survived, when his brother and 12 other children from the predominantly tribal village died due to post-measles complications compounded by malnutrition, in February. Eighty children had been hospitalised. However, doctors in the district claim that the deaths were caused by various viral infections. The Chief Medical and Health Officer of Sheopur, Dr. A.K. Dixit, said: "There may have been a couple of cases of measles, which may have been compounded by malnutrition. However, most of them were viral infections of various kinds, including bronchitis and pneumonia." However, other doctors studying the deaths have stated that malnutrition led to measles, even in those children who had been vaccinated against the disease. Dr. P.C. Mahajan, head of the Department of Preventive and Social Medicine at the Gwalior Medical College, said: "In cases of severe malnutrition, vaccination is not effective. A second attack of measles cannot be prevented. You need protein to produce antigens and Vitamin A to build immunity. It is a vicious cycle - protein-energy malnutrition leading to opportunistic infections, which again leads to low immunity, which kills appetite further. The impact is almost as in the case of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (AIDS), except that malnutrition is a curable condition, not a disease. Unless and until malnutrition is treated, nothing can be done." Even today, many children in Patalgarh suffer from severe dysentery with bleeding, vomiting and persistent cough. Although several medical teams and administrative authorities visited the village in the aftermath of the deaths, nobody seems to be monitoring the situation now. One of the most backward regions of the State, Patalgarh is home to at least 80 tribal families, most of them Sahariyas. Dakko Sahariya of Patalgarh village says, "The doctors came two months ago to give the oral polio vaccine. Now there is talk of setting up an anganwadi here. For a while, `daliya' (gruel made using broken wheat, soyabean and jaggery) was being distributed to the children, but now even that has stopped." In the absence of other sources of nutrition, a mid-day meal provided at the village school would have been a lifesaver for children. However, though there is a school building, there is no schoolmaster. Says Raja Sahariya, resident of the village: "The teacher lives in Hirapur, which is 15 km away. Initially, he used to send a young local boy as his deputy to distribute dal-roti, and some potatoes. Now there is nothing. No teacher, no food, no education. We told the District Collector what was happening through a panchnama. But nothing has been done." Other food-security initiatives launched by the government, which could have prevented such tragedies, also appear to have fizzled out. Kailash Sahariya owns a yellow Antyodaya card, which entitles him to 35 kg of grain every month from the local ration shop, which is 15 km away. But he has not received any rations after January 2005. "The ration shopowner gave me only 30 kg then. Since January, he has been telling us that the grain has not arrived." Kailash Sahariya points out that the average working year for members of his tribal community lasts only four months in the summer, as they collect forest produce. There are no irrigation facilities. When there is nothing else, they eat sama, seeds of a wild grass which look like very fine rice but have little nutritive quality. Now, the village is performing a puja to appease Khulko Mata, a tribal deity who they hold responsible for the children's deaths. Despite claims that multi-purpose health workers visit the village regularly, nobody seems to have made the villagers aware that the children need food, most of all. Eight public health centres, two community health centres and 89 sub-centres cater to no less than 608 villages in Sheopur district. To top it all, the health workers were on election duty when the deaths occurred. When asked about the malnourishment in the district, Dr. Dixit said: "Naturally, malnutrition will be there as it is a tribal belt and it is remote. What can be done? There are at least 85 posts of nurses vacant in the Gwalior Medical College. If hospitals in Gwalior are understaffed, how do you expect things to be better in the villages?" A report submitted last year by the Bal Sanjeevani Campaign, a government-sponsored survey conducted in conjunction with the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF), stated that 1,300 children in Sheopur district were found to be Grade 3 and Grade 4 malnourished. Sachin Jain, the State coordinator for the Right to Food campaign, said: "I think this is nothing short of state-sponsored killing. There have been at least 169 malnutrition deaths in Madhya Pradesh over the last year, many of them in the tribal belts." As per the data provided by the Regional Medical Research Institute of Tribals in Jabalpur, 93 per cent of Sahariya children are victims of severe malnourishment and 15 per cent of them are almost on the verge of death due to malnourishment. Sheopur District Collector K.S. Maran was not available for comment. However, other officials in the Collector's office were rather dismissive about the starvation deaths. One official said: "There is no such situation here. It is just that the media have created a strange situation." He added that since teachers and development workers had not got their salaries for eight months or more, they could not be expected to work properly. THIS is not the first time that malnutrition- and hunger-related deaths have occurred in Madhya Pradesh. According to a report filed by State Commissioners appointed by the Supreme Court, there were no fewer than 50 hunger-related deaths in the adjoining Shivpuri district. In Hingua village in Badwani district, five children reportedly died of malnourishment, and eight each died in Khandwa and Chatterpur districts. Reports appear almost daily in local newspapers of grain allotted through the public distribution system (PDS) being smuggled out to neighbouring States and sold in the black market. At least 200 quintals of grain has been caught in raids in Sheorpur and Shivpuri districts. Shivpuri District Collector M. Geeta said: "When I took charge nine months ago, there was a severe drought, which had been on for two years. Last year there were reports of malnutrition deaths. I have filed at least six First Information Reports (FIRs) with regard to grain theft and black-marketing after conducting raids in PDS shops. Now, thankfully, the situation is not so pathetic, though I admit it is not good yet." There are 1,500 villages in Shivpuri, of which 600 are Sahariya tribal villages. But there are only 932 Integrated Child Development Scheme (ICDS) centres, most of which are located far away from tribal hamlets. M. Geeta added: "We do not have a strong PDS. We have filed a writ petition in the Supreme Court to ensure that the food-for-work programme is routed through the PDS, and not through private contractors. We have also written to the Principal Secretary, Health, and the Principal Secretary, Tribal Affairs, to help in this regard." According to the Planning Commission, at least Rs.211 crores is needed for the Supplementary Nutrition Programme in the State. The State government, however, has allocated only Rs.59 crores. This is a big shame, especially when a State like Andhra Pradesh allocated Rs.85 crores, although the requirement was only Rs.80 crores. Government data show that more than 55 per cent of the child population in Madhya Pradesh is malnourished. To its discredit, the State has managed to bring only 22 per cent of the 1.06 crore children in the State under the ICDS, despite the Supreme Court's repeated orders to ensure full coverage. As a result, 51 per cent of the children are stunted, 20 per cent are wasted and 75 per cent are anaemic. On the administrative front, there has been little monitoring of programmes such as the ICDS and the PDS, which could have prevented malnutrition-related deaths. Narendra Vithare, a former Bharatiya Janata Party legislator from Pohri in Shivpuri district, admitted: "It is a failure of the administration. Our (government's) failure lies in the fact that we failed to supervise proper implementation of the schemes. The Opposition, for its part, has been indifferent." From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 06:53:45 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 06:53:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 15 Message-ID: Source: The Hindu Date: Sunday, Dec 04, 2005 Link: http://www.hinduonnet.com/mag/2005/12/04/stories/2005120400080400.htm Article: * Struggle for their rights * KATHYAYINI CHAMARAJ Despite the many challenges they face, anganwadi workers help the State achieve many of the Millennium Development Goals. AT the all-India rally of thousands of anganwadi workers (AWWs) and helpers in Bangalore recently, Sakamma (name changed), from a far-off district of Karnataka, was seen eating rice and *dal*, which she had packed 24 hours earlier. She had come paying her own bus-fare, but she could not afford to buy food from a hotel. That the silicon plateau Bangalore, where some pay Rs. 1,000 for a single meal, was the venue for this meet helped throw up the contrasts between two Indias. Sakamma came hoping that adding strength to the AWWs' numbers would make the government pay heed to their demands. Myriad tasks AWWs are the modern-day Durgas, who with their mythical nine pairs of hands do myriad tasks for the government. In charge of the Integrated Child Development Services (ICDS) Scheme, they are the grassroots workers who help the State reach many of the Millennium Development Goals (MDGs). They work to reduce infant and maternal mortality and provide supplementary nutrition to prevent malnutrition among mothers and pre-school children. In India, all these indices are among the highest in the world. They register all births and deaths and provide pre-school education to all three-to-six-year-olds. All these tasks are essential for lifting India from its abysmal 127th position in the UNDP's Human Development Index. AWWs also perform a number of tasks unconnected with the ICDS. They conduct surveys for various departments; form self-help groups of women; support Sarva Shiksha Abhiyan; encourage small savings; create awareness about AIDS, TB and social evils like dowry, detect bogus ration cards and also do the more mundane tasks of bringing crowds and arranging flowers, food and tea for every village function. Despite performing these important government tasks, they are not government servants, but "voluntary workers" who earn an "honorarium" of Rs. 1,000, with helpers receiving Rs. 500. (Some States supplement the salaries.) "Many AWWs do not receive even the meagre salary and increments on time," says S. Varalakshmi, Secretary of the Karnataka chapter of the All-India Federation of Anganwadi Workers and Helpers (AIFAWH). The paradox is that AWWs look after the children of the poorest landless and agricultural workers, but are unable to feed their own children or send them to school. These women cannot be expected to be "social workers" because they are often widowed, deserted or destitute women, badly in need of employment. In view of all this, the major demand of the AWWs is to be recognised as government employees. There are about 7,00,000 AWWs in the country with an equal number of helpers. Thirty years after the ICDS was initiated in 1975, even their meagre wages have reached their current level only due to the long-standing struggles of their unions. Need for day care "Universal provision of day-care services for 0-6 year children are imperative in India, also because, in the unorganised sector, where around 96 per cent of the working women in the country are employed, they don't get any maternity leave or child care facilities," says K. Hemalata, All-India Secretary of AIFAWH. Yet, the ICDS currently reaches only 34 million, or a third, of the total 160 million children in the country, says a report prepared by Jean Drèze and Shonali Sen, for the National Advisory Council. There are just 6,00,000 anganwadis as against 14,00,000 habitations in rural areas alone. Noting this inadequacy, the Supreme Court ruled in the Right to Food case in November 2001 that there should be an ICDS centre in every habitation. But this will not help, if the new centres are going to be more of the same kind that exist today. Many AWCs have no proper buildings or furniture, lack safe drinking water, toilets, vessels, teaching aids, toys and playgrounds. Despite this, AWWs are expected to perform the miracle of providing total personality development and education of the children of illiterate parents. But AIFAWH is against the opening of pre-primary schools attached to primary schools under Sarva Shiksha Abhiyan (SSA). Varalakshmi says, "The same resources could be used to strengthen the infrastructure of existing anganwadis for providing quality pre-school education instead of creating two parallel and competing but weak institutions". End educational discrimination Baragur Ramachandrappa, noted Kannada litterateur, speaking at the conference, reiterated the need to strengthen and universalise anganwadis to bring an end to the educational discrimination in the country. Noted economist Jayati Ghosh, speaking at the conference, praised the ICDS scheme for being the "largest, cheapest and most efficient of its kind in the world". Efficient it has to be, for how else can one provide more than 300 feeding days in the year with as little infrastructure, resources and support as the AWWs get? The AWWs are today's miracle women. They are often given irregular, inadequate and unwholesome food supplies, and often no money for fuel, and are expected to dish up something six days a week and wipe out the 50 per cent malnutrition among children. Additionally, "AWWs are caught in the snare of globalisation. The government's reluctance to regularise them as government employees and also its attempts at privatising the anganwadi centres (AWCs) are all of a piece," says V.J.K. Nair, of CITU. AIFAWH is also opposing the handing over of the management of AWCs to the *panchayati raj *and *nagarapalika *institutions. While this would appear to be an anachronism in this age, Hemalata says, "Local bodies currently do not have proper powers or finances. If they can be strengthened to provide better facilities to AWCs, we welcome it. But in the absence of proper service rules for the AWWs, many cases of sexual harassment by the *panchayat pradhans *have been reported, when AWWs are asked to get the *pradhan's *signature to get their honorarium or annual leave sanctioned". Varalakshmi echoes the need for "a united voice and joint fight at the national level" in support of the AWWs' struggle for institutionalising the ICDS. In this regard, one crore signatures have been obtained on a memorandum submitted to the HRD Minister from the communities which benefit from the AWCs. The National Advisory Council has estimated that Rs. 17,000 crores is required to universalise the ICDS, and another Rs. 16,500 crores if the workers are to be regularised as government servants. This is still 0.6 per cent of GDP. Dr. Ghosh notes that just the increase in the defence expenditure has been twice this amount in the last two years. And contrary to doomsday prophecies when such amounts are asked to be spent on the social sectors, this increase in defence expenditure has neither led to inflation nor made the government bankrupt! Also, by using AWWs as "unpaid labour" for various tasks unconnected with the ICDS, the Government is already saving Rs. 1,000 crores! And if only the government would restore the tax:GDP ratio to its 1990-91 level, it could fully provide for the ICDS, the midday meal and employment guarantee schemes. Considering the benefits to the state from the work of AWWs, their demands are truly "demands on behalf of the nation and not on behalf of themselves," as Dr. Ghosh averred. *(The All-India Federation of Anganwadi Workers and Helpers (AIFAWH) held its 5th Annual Conference in Bangalore between November 8 and 11, 2005.) * From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 08:07:33 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 08:07:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 15 Message-ID: Source: Frontline Issue: *Volume 21 - Issue 05, February 28 - March 12, 2004* Link: http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2105/stories/20040312006102000.htm Article: *Driven to suicide * PARVATHI MENON *in Bangalore* THERE was a time when life did indeed appear to shine briefly for Venkate Gowda, a small peasant of Dasandoddi village of Mandya taluk in Karnataka. That was six years ago when he was able to add an acre (0.4 hectare) to his inheritance of two acres of land. He then started growing mulberry for sericulture, thereby augmenting his earnings from agriculture. This glow of relative prosperity was, however, short-lived, something that four years of drought, together with the drying of water in his three borewells and the stranglehold of high-interest private debts, effectively ensured. Indeed, by the end of it all there was so little to feel good about that Venkate Gowda, who had toiled stoically and unremittingly through the better part of 65 years, decided that he could no longer face life. He committed suicide by consuming poison, leaving a shattered family faced with few livelihood options. His 40-year old son, Narase Gowda, angry and embittered at the situation which forced his father's death, decided to leave the village - he knew not where - once his daughter finished her final school leaving examinations. He had a debt of nearly Rs.40,000 to repay to private moneylenders, borrowed by his father at the extortionist interest rate of 5 per cent a month. This was in addition to a loan of Rs.25,000 to the Primary Land Development Bank in his district. The family received no monetary compensation from the State government for Venkate Gowda's suicide, as his land was registered in his son's name. Venkate Gowda may have been pushed to suicide by a set of compulsions that were personal and that related to the specific circumstances of his life. Nevertheless, his death is illustrative of a larger reality in Karnataka where over 650 farmers, according to official statistics, have committed suicide in the past 10 months, unable to cope with three successive years of crop losses and mounting debts. As distraught families pick up the pieces and shoulder new burdens, the economic problems that drove their breadwinners to suicide have not gone away. Therefore, to claim, as the governments at the Centre and in the State have been doing, that a climate of economic vitality and hope has been created in the countryside is really something of a cruel joke. A small but important exercise that provided striking evidence of a persistent and gnawing `feel-hungry' factor for the majority of the 1,877 households in Nandibevuru gram panchayat of Harapanahalli taluk in Davangere district was recently held by the Right to Food Campaign. The coalition of about 80 non-governmental organisations (NGOs) in Karnataka chose this gram panchayat to conduct a "social audit" to monitor the implementation of nine government food security schemes, as part of a series of such social audits it has planned in the State. The audit provided valuable empirical evidence of what there is an abundance of media writing on - the exclusion of the poor from the public distribution system (PDS) and the serious leakages in its implementation. "For the last two years I have not received any provisions from the fair price shop on my ration cards," said 26-year-old Lalithamma from Kongana Hosuru village in her written and oral testimony in front of assembled district officials at the two-day public hearing that followed the social audit. "Despite my application to the district officials in June 2003, nothing was done" she said. "Because we have no ration cards, we are totally destitute" said 55-year old Gurukanthamma, who owns two acres of land, in her submission. "Give us the Anytodaya card. There are seven families in my village who are in extreme distress", she said. In a letter to the Director of the Food and Civil Supplies Department in Bangalore, 15 below poverty line (BPL)-category residents of Kongana Hosaru complained of being denied provisions for two years by the local fair price shop. "The ration shop owner says we have to get a new card which we applied for but which we have not received. We do not get work for even Rs.10-15 a day in our village," the letter said. It is in such a situation that the State government has reduced food subsidies to Rs.170 crores in 2003-2004 from Rs.295 crores in 2000-2001. In its Medium Term Fiscal Plan, the State government claimed success in weeding out "bogus ration cards" and in reducing the number of ration cards from 62 lakhs to 42.7 lakhs. At a convention on Federation of Women in Local Self-Government organised by the Karnataka Women's Information and Resource Centre in Bangalore recently, many issues of daily livelihood were discussed in the context of women's leadership roles. "It is a difficult situation that most people face in my gram panchayat," M. Nagamani, an elected gram panchayat member of Karatigi in Gangavati taluk, Koppala district, told *Frontline*. "There are new classifications for BPL families. If you have a TV, fan or cycle in your home, then you are not considered poor. Nowadays, the `Bhyagyajyoti' light connections that used to be free for poor homes are metered. These connections are being cut, because people cannot afford to pay the bills. In my village 40 to 45 families out of 100 have migrated in search of jobs," she said. "Despite these problems, we try to fight and do the best we can from the limited resources of the panchayat. We may not be fully educated, but we have enthusiasm," she added. "There is no question that the quality of life in my own family has deteriorated over the last three years," said Shakuntala, a former gram panchayat member from Tikkutta gram panchayat of Bijapur Taluk in Bijapur district. "There are nine people in my household. Although we have 18 acres (7.8 ha) of land, three out of four borewells have failed, and we borrowed heavily to dig them. We also had a ration card, and it was taken away because we owned land. Life is miserable, and in our gram panchayat there have already been around 10 suicides by poor farmers." The impact of cumulative crop losses owing to three consecutive years of inadequate rainfall has been the proximate reason for the agrarian crisis. However, there have been droughts of even greater severity that have affected Karnataka in the past, but none with consequences as serious as this one. The impact of the drought has been devastating because of a series of policy changes in agriculture that have weakened the ability of poor and marginal rural populations to cope in adverse climatic conditions. Most of the cases of suicide involved small farmers who were deeply in debt to private moneylenders. The withdrawal of bank credit to the agricultural sector, and to poor farmers in particular since the late 1990s is well-documented. Nationalised banks have not opened any new branches in the rural areas in the past five years, and rural branches have been shutting down in this period. The Banking Service Recruitment Board (BSRB), set up for recruitment in the clerical cadre in banks, was abolished by the National Democratic Alliance (NDA) government, as were the posts of rural development officers in rural branches. In March 2000, the total number of rural banks in Karnataka was 2,250, a number which came down to 2,201 in March 2002. The percentage of Agricultural advances in total advances from banks decreased from 21.38 to 18.86 in the same period. This went up again to 19.5 per cent in December 2002, but largely on account of corporate agricultural loans. "Easy access to institutional credit is the exclusive prerogative of the big farmer, whereas the small farmers will have to depend upon private creditors," observed M. Veerappa Moily, former Chief Minister of Karnataka in a recent analysis of agricultural credit in Karnataka. "Most suicides are by small farmers who owe between Rs.50,000 and Rs.70,000 to private moneylenders, whereas their debt to banks or cooperative societies is minimal. It is also a matter of concern that unlike former days, the poorer farmers are struck off from the BPL category, thus becoming ineligible for subsidised food. It is for these reasons that a single year of drought or crisis can drive poor farmers into total desperation," he noted. Preliminary conclusions from a survey conducted by the People's Democratic Forum (PDF), People's Union for Civil Liberties (PUCL), and independent researchers in Bangalore, of 43 families of suicide victims in 51 villages in Kolar, Hassan, Mandya and Bangalore Rural districts reinforces media findings on the causes for the suicides. High indebtedness to private creditors was the primary reason for most suicides. In addition, drying of borewells, failure of pumpsets, increase in the cost of production owing to the lifting of subsidies on crucial agricultural inputs like electricity, fertilizer, water and seeds, and the fall in the prices of agricultural commodities, had greatly weakened the ability of farmers to meet the challenge of drought. "How can India be shining when the small landholder faces such a grim future?" asked V.S. Sreedhara, a Professor of English at Vijaya College, Bangalore, who was a member of the team. "For every case of a suicide death there are a hundred potential cases. What is clear is that there will be no change in the agricultural scene in the years to come," he said. The lack of work in rural areas has been one of the most serious consequences arising from drought and related pressures on agriculture. "The drastic reduction in the number of workdays for anybody related to agriculture in Karnataka has increased because of drought and the fall in the prices of all agricultural commodities," said G.N. Nagaraj, vice-president, Karnataka unit of the All India Agricultural Workers Union. "Even prior to drought, there was a reduction in funding for rural development - towards capital investment in agriculture, credit flow to rural areas, and so on. In Karnataka, the mechanisation of public works, which is taking place on a large scale, has further decreased rural employment opportunities. This is resulting in large-scale migration. In Bijapur district there are villages where more than 50 per cent of the residents, including landholders owning up to 20 acres (8 ha), have migrated in search of work," he said. From ambarien at yahoo.co.uk Sun Aug 16 10:51:28 2009 From: ambarien at yahoo.co.uk (ambarien qadar) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 05:21:28 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Reader-list] Join National Protest Day against Encounter Killings on 14th August In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <611035.72489.qm@web24102.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi Jodha, Apologies for the delayed response. Nevertheless, this is how I think: Dear Ambarien Qadar: While I endorse your campaign covering different rights violations across India, I am a bit puzzled by one of the reasons for your protest: "the arbitrary arrests of Muslim youth." While we as a group do extend our solidarity with other groups/individuals working on different rights violations, the campaign specifically at the moment is not a blanket protest for all rights violations across India. We are protesting against cases of encounter killings, very specifically the case of The Batla House encounter where the NHRC has given a clean chit to the police. If you read my post carefully, you will find that it is not only about 'the arbitrary arrests of muslim youth' (which in my view is definitely and undeniably happening) but also about instances in Manipur. Please look up my/our past posts to see the instances where we have addressed issues beyond the 'arbitrary arrests of Muslim youth'. I think this is a narrow, perhaps even communal and certainly erroneous view of state of affairs in India. The victims of arbitrary arrests and illegal confinement, while in your limited personal experience may necessarily be Muslims, across India they are from all religious groups and even non-religious/ atheists if you were to visit some of the so-called Naxal-affected districts. The mail was a group opinion. It was not a personal one; and hence not stemming from my own 'limited personal opinion'. However, I am not apologetic, not in the least, to say that my motivations for the political have always emerged from the personal.  Thirdly, if you want to link "independence from encounter killings" with Independence Day, then why have this protest on August 14th and not August 15th, which is our independence day? This is not a minor quibble. August 14th is Independence Day of a certain other south Asian country that, as is common knowledge, has been arming, training and exporting terrorists to us for over 25 years now as a matter of state policy. It is no secret either that many in our society see human rights groups as anti-national, pro-terrorists, etc. This is more so with the Muslim community. As it stands your timing is going to reinforce this prejudice rather than draw attention to an issue that should concern every citizen.Some decision are pure logistics, like choosing 14th Aug instead of 15th. ThanksAmbarien Al Qadar Messages in this topic (2) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Photos | Members Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity Visit Your Group Yahoo! Mail Stay in Touch Stay connected and manage your life Yahoo! Toolbar Get it Free! easy 1-click access to your groups. Yahoo! Groups Start a group in 3 easy steps. Connect with others. . __,_._,___ From ambarien at yahoo.co.uk Sun Aug 16 11:04:51 2009 From: ambarien at yahoo.co.uk (ambarien qadar) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 05:34:51 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Reader-list] [CACDelhi] Re: Join National Protest Day against Encounter Killings on 14th August In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <278551.61210.qm@web24108.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Apologies for cross/multiple postings. The formatting in the previous post has went haywire. So am reposting my responses. Hi Jodha,Apologies for the delayed response. Nevertheless, this is how I think: While we as a group do extend our solidarity with other groups/individuals working on different rights violations, the campaign specifically at the moment is not a blanket protest for all rights violations across India. We are protesting against cases of encounter killings, very specifically the case of The Batla House encounter where the NHRC has given a clean chit to the police. If you read my post carefully, you will find that it is not only about 'the arbitrary arrests of muslim youth' (which in my view is definitely and undeniably happening) but also about instances in Manipur. Please look up my/our past posts to see the instances where we have addressed issues beyond the 'arbitrary arrests of Muslim youth'.   The mail was a group opinion. It was not a personal one; and hence not stemming from my own 'limited personal opinion'. However, I am not apologetic, not in the least, to say that my motivations for the political have always emerged from the personal. Infact I am increasingly becoming quite wary of those who think they can give 'voice to the voiceless'. Those times are gone and over.    Some decision are pure logistics, like choosing 14th Aug instead of 15th.
It is pure co-incidence that it happens to be the Independence day of the nation you are referring to. ThanksAmbarien Al Qadar
 From yasir.media at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 13:29:28 2009 From: yasir.media at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?eWFzaXIgftmK2Kcg2LPYsQ==?=) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:59:28 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] pk - kitna badal gya insaan / geo tv Message-ID: <5af37bb0908160059w2394535dqbe60ebf06deee764@mail.gmail.com> The malaise in Pakistan on Independence Day (14th Aug) as reflected in popular channel's song. Its sensational of course. the channel, GeoTV is the biggest media group. the lines lament the loss of the country of the "fathers" / heroes (the pictures), saying how much people have changed, for the worse.... mms:// wm.vitalstreamcdn.com/stream_geo_tv/Promo/progressive/KitnaBadalGayaInsaan.wmv From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 16 14:33:07 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 02:03:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <214742.77815.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <163716.98157.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Shuddha   1. "Allah" and/or variants of root of the word (as name for GOD)  do belong to Semitic traditions of the Jews  and you pointed out to some Christian sects also.   I am not aware if the phrase "Allah u Akbar" (on the OIC flag) also belongs to similar traditions and is in use amongst any other that Muslims.   Even if it were to be used in some pocket, I do not think that the Christians and the Jews in general identify with that phrase or would see it as being anything other than a  Islamic declaration.   Educative as your comment is, it is not pertinent to recognising the character of the OIC or of the inscription "Allah u Akbar" on it's flag.   Obviously Israel or Christian or Christian majority countries also see it differently (not only because of the OIC flag but also it's Charter and other characteristics) and are not a part of the OIC.   It is likely that one day/night there will be two moons in the sky when another planet spirals out of it's orbit. That is a doomsday scenario (in astrophysics).     2. NAM was a grouping meant to be outside alignment with the Power Blocs of the Cold War.   Your point is valid that (howsoever loose or firm the alignment may be) countries like India and Egypt continuing to be a part of NAM is a contradiction.   That exactly was my point. This that such countries who may not be declaredly Islamic or may not have Islam as State Religion or have Islam incorporated in their Laws, but are a part of the OIC are presenting a contradiction.   Such countries, are (internationally) declaring themselves Islamic by the very fact of being a part of the OIC. That is how they need to be recognised Internationally. I do not think that I need to give details on the Islamic character of the OIC. Anyone can see for themselves at http://www.oic-oci.org/home.asp   Shockingly, the OIC has a permanent representation in the United Nations, which is (at the very least) an informal recognition of the World divided along religious lines.   Kshmendra       Shuddhabrata Sengupta shuddha at sarai.net Sat Aug 15 19:41:12 IST 2009   On the other, other, hand, Just as the members of the non aligned movement, such as Egypt and  India, while locking themselves into military alliances with  superpowers, are so, so, so, non-aligned ? And by the way, ask any arab christian what they call god, and the  answer is likely to be Allah. At least that was what i heard in a  syrian orthodox liturgy in a damascus church. So are we going to call  arab christians, muslims now? best Shuddha   From: Kshmendra Kaul Subject: Re: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately To: "sarai list" Date: Saturday, August 15, 2009, 7:30 PM Dear Shuddha   On the other hand ....   Countries that are members of the OIC could be seen as having declared themselves as "Islamic" even if there is no other such declaration in their 'official name' or 'laws'.   That would include all the countries you have mentioned with 2 exceptions..  Kosovo is not a member and Bosnia Herzegovina has Observer Status.   Any ambiguities in the recognition that I have proposed will be largely dealt with by studying the various aspects of the OIC http://www.oic-oci.org/home.asp   The Flag of OIC incidentally is said to declare "Allah u Akbar". Not much ambiguity in that. http://flagspot.net/flags/int-oic.html#desc   Kshmendra   Shuddhabrata Sengupta shuddha at sarai.net Sat Aug 15 17:49:34 IST 2009   Murali, Jeebesh is right, except that Indonesia is the worlds largest (by  population) Muslim countriy. Not the second largest. And here is a  list of 19 other Muslim majority countries that are not Islamic  states, or do not have Islam listed as state religion. Burkina Faso, Gambia, Guinea, Mali, Senegal, Chad, Djibouti,  Indonesia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgystan, Tajikstan, Turkmenistan,  Uzbekistan, Albania,  Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo,  Palestinian Authority and Turkey. There are several other countries, which recognize Islam as a state  religion, such as Egypt but are still not 'Islamic States', that is,  they are not governed by Islamic law Only a third category of states, which includes, Iran, Saudi Arabia,  Pakistan, Afghanistan etc, can be strictly called Islamic States, in  that they are partially or wholly governed by Islamic law and  recognize the Sharia as a source of law and jurisprudence. Please take the trouble to make credible and factual statements as  far as possible when you seek to impose your opinions on this list. Shuddha From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 16 14:47:54 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 02:17:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] pk - kitna badal gya insaan / geo tv In-Reply-To: <5af37bb0908160059w2394535dqbe60ebf06deee764@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <818445.4950.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Yasir   Have seen it. Yet another excellent 'touching commentary' from GEO.   I expressed my opinion just a few days back that Indian Media needs to do some learning from the one in Pakistan. My recognitions being limited to English Press and TV (News) channels from Pakistan.   "Kitna Badal Gaya Insaan" takes forward the impressive courage and forthrightness shown by GEO during the worst of the Musharraf years. There have been delightful parodies through song/qawwali or "Hum Sabb Umeed Se Hain".   The quality of programming on GEO  is impressive and it is a favourite of mine. The only sour note (for me) comes from Aamir Liaquat  when he goes ballistic on topics that have very little to do with promoting Islam or bridging the sectarian divides amongst Muslims.   Kshmendra --- On Sun, 8/16/09, yasir ~يا سر wrote: From: yasir ~يا سر Subject: [Reader-list] pk - kitna badal gya insaan / geo tv To: "Sarai Reader-list" Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 1:29 PM The malaise in Pakistan on Independence Day (14th Aug) as reflected in popular channel's song. Its sensational of course. the channel, GeoTV is the biggest media group. the lines lament the loss of the country of the "fathers" / heroes (the pictures), saying how much people have changed, for the worse.... mms:// wm.vitalstreamcdn.com/stream_geo_tv/Promo/progressive/KitnaBadalGayaInsaan.wmv _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 15:06:10 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 15:06:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] pk - kitna badal gya insaan / geo tv In-Reply-To: <818445.4950.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <5af37bb0908160059w2394535dqbe60ebf06deee764@mail.gmail.com> <818445.4950.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908160236m1bbf6525m630370cd01ab4479@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Kshemedraji, truely remarkable creative work by the Geo channel which deserves the appreciative gestures, unlike news channels , particularly deem it fit only to talk about the issues of which they can generate more advertisement revenues for themselves and titillate the base instincts of animals in humans.! Regards, Rajen. On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Yasir > > Have seen it. Yet another excellent 'touching commentary' from GEO. > > I expressed my opinion just a few days back that Indian Media needs to do > some learning from the one in Pakistan. My recognitions being limited to > English Press and TV (News) channels from Pakistan. > > "Kitna Badal Gaya Insaan" takes forward the impressive courage and > forthrightness shown by GEO during the worst of the Musharraf years. There > have been delightful parodies through song/qawwali or "Hum Sabb Umeed Se > Hain". > > The quality of programming on GEO is impressive and it is a favourite of > mine. The only sour note (for me) comes from Aamir Liaquat when he goes > ballistic on topics that have very little to do with promoting Islam or > bridging the sectarian divides amongst Muslims. > > Kshmendra > > > --- On Sun, 8/16/09, yasir ~يا سر wrote: > > > From: yasir ~يا سر > Subject: [Reader-list] pk - kitna badal gya insaan / geo tv > To: "Sarai Reader-list" > Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 1:29 PM > > > The malaise in Pakistan on Independence Day (14th Aug) > as reflected in popular channel's song. > > Its sensational of course. the channel, GeoTV is the biggest media group. > the lines lament the loss of the country of the "fathers" / heroes (the > pictures), > saying how much people have changed, for the worse.... > > mms:// > > wm.vitalstreamcdn.com/stream_geo_tv/Promo/progressive/KitnaBadalGayaInsaan.wmv > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: -- Rajen. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 16 15:17:00 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 02:47:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] pk - kitna badal gya insaan / geo tv In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908160236m1bbf6525m630370cd01ab4479@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <700208.87864.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Rajen   You will see some more of such excellent work from GEO in the list of videos of Mr Jeem available at http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mr+jeem&search_type=&aq=f     If you are fairly in know of the politics and other personalities/structures/happenings in Pakistan then you will relish some great parodies from GEO at http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hum+sab+umeed&search_type=&aq=f   Kshmendra --- On Sun, 8/16/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi wrote: From: Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi Subject: Re: [Reader-list] pk - kitna badal gya insaan / geo tv To: "Kshmendra Kaul" Cc: "Sarai Reader-list" , "yasir ~يا سر" Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 3:06 PM Hi,      Kshemedraji, truely remarkable creative work by the Geo channel which deserves the appreciative gestures, unlike news channels , particularly deem it fit only to talk about the issues of which they can generate more advertisement revenues for themselves and titillate the base instincts of animals in humans.! Regards, Rajen. On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: Dear Yasir   Have seen it. Yet another excellent 'touching commentary' from GEO.   I expressed my opinion just a few days back that Indian Media needs to do some learning from the one in Pakistan. My recognitions being limited to English Press and TV (News) channels from Pakistan.   "Kitna Badal Gaya Insaan" takes forward the impressive courage and forthrightness shown by GEO during the worst of the Musharraf years. There have been delightful parodies through song/qawwali or "Hum Sabb Umeed Se Hain".   The quality of programming on GEO  is impressive and it is a favourite of mine. The only sour note (for me) comes from Aamir Liaquat  when he goes ballistic on topics that have very little to do with promoting Islam or bridging the sectarian divides amongst Muslims.   Kshmendra --- On Sun, 8/16/09, yasir ~يا سر wrote: From: yasir ~يا سر Subject: [Reader-list] pk - kitna badal gya insaan / geo tv To: "Sarai Reader-list" Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 1:29 PM The malaise in Pakistan on Independence Day (14th Aug) as reflected in popular channel's song. Its sensational of course. the channel, GeoTV is the biggest media group. the lines lament the loss of the country of the "fathers" / heroes (the pictures), saying how much people have changed, for the worse.... mms:// wm.vitalstreamcdn.com/stream_geo_tv/Promo/progressive/KitnaBadalGayaInsaan.wmv _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 15:27:24 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 15:27:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: References: <7271ec560908140653w231ff75cyda0b88e641472430@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908150102s5488b5c1p51208b65d70c3903@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908150135h57e0a0ebkf7c36ec8eab88ab7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908160257n5de4ecdfg24ca49d4fa00c301@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Rakesh, thanks for the appointment and as appointing authority of the university, I submit my humble rejection to the offer, to you, as I have neither the inclination to be in controversies as I always sidestep them,further I do not subscribe to your view that Modi and others are mine, but they are duly elected by the people in fair and free polls unlike the nominated individual who is the rubberstamp who parrots the words for his madam, his headmaster, uncle Sam. As to the list, it is better to sidestep from the controversies more because it is my observation that has made me to take this step, as I have noticed the moderator/s in their own style chastise some for inaccuracies and reprimand a few, but many get away, by the niceties of an apology, such being the case, the list being abundant in good and versatile thoughts, it is better not to be "rebel". Ofcourse, my mentor was rebel by birth, radhikarajen, who tried all rebelious ways in life, albeit without violent means, lived and had life with the likes of Kanu Sanyal, Guruji Shri. Golwalkarji, and all the extreme sides of the life, but even in death, he gave life to many, as a first case of organ donor, for harvest of organs, lived life with humane side always at the foremost, had more than the share of good friends from all faiths, accepted good from all ways of life to practice,came in to world quietly, left much more quietly, with his thoughts for the society to dwell upon.The gist of the thinking was to have tolerance for fools, tolerate those who have egos more than the substance, to be quiet when some one shows off borrowed wisdom, when some one pretends to be sleeping, never try to wake them up. Yes, I like and love to sidestep such, who seek controversies to make their name in intellect show offs, and to the student who appoints me as professor, I can humbly say that, I am still in studies, in the process of learning, so I do not wish to teach. A word of caution, slips in my mind as soliloquy, having come to study in technology, why waste parents money for some issues which are not relevant to studies.? regards, Rajen. On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Professor Rajen ji > > I don't have a holier than thou attitude, because I think you deserved that > Professor tag. Seriously, now you should teach in a university rather than > simply spreading your views among fewer people here. What say? > > By the way, professors, I experienced, are quite open to views from other > sources even if it's contrary to their own beliefs, and try to look at those > views from different perspectives as well. But the professor to whom I > address this seems to be an odd one out. So I will think now before > addressing exceptional professors, especially of the kind who have an utter > disregard for people's issues. > > As for my beloved being Shikhandi, at least that Shikhandi is much better > than your Modi and Advani who don't have the guts to move without any NSG > around them, and yet talk about masculinity and 'dum'. (Remember Elections > 2009 Sir. At least that Shikhandi was giving Chicken Biryani to 'terrorists' > as per your vocabulary and ideas (as you yourself stated once on this > forum), your heroes chickened away at the frightening prospect of being laid > bare by the same Shikhandi). Anyways, you are the type who run away when > attacked, as I said, like China, to avoid controversies. > > > Regards > > Rakesh > -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 15:33:47 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 15:33:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Go, Fly A Kite! In-Reply-To: <556b1d6b0908151040ra4d9f60o25cd299cdfe11a2d@mail.gmail.com> References: <08647F77-B9F6-4D74-8902-4BD541B79270@sarai.net> <556b1d6b0908151040ra4d9f60o25cd299cdfe11a2d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908160303g66632e10x2735dca4bc5a6363@mail.gmail.com> Very true, truth has many faces to look at..........! Regards, Rajen. On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 11:10 PM, Sujata & Samantak wrote: > Dear Shuddha, > Thank you for your wonderfully evocative piece on the "pornography" of > state > rituals on occasions like Independence Day and Republic Day. Your > description of the mandatory flag hoisting and the expressions of those > involved in these tragicomic moments was marvellously accurate and close to > the bone. > > But, you know, there are still a few places and a few institutions where > Independence Day and Republic Day are not mere empty (and, for their > participants, slightly irritating) events, where "quiet, sober and personal > reflection on what liberty might mean", as you put it, does take place, > where the bloodletting of Partition is mourned and a quiet moment observed > in memory of those whose blood was shed. > > These places are never, thankfully, in the glare of the media, nor are the > institutions which organise such events usually located in cities. I know > of > several such small, rural NGOs and schools (or NGOs which run schools), > where I have been privileged to observe precisely the kind of "celebration" > of our freedom that would be, I think, more to your liking (and perhaps > others who are on this list). > > And quite often, after the songs and the poems, the dances and the > speeches, > we have gone off to fly our kites before sitting down to a good wholesome > (late) lunch and dozed off gently in the midst of a drowsy discussion of > what freedom means... > > Happy Independence Day! > Samantak > > 2009/8/15 Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > > Dear all, > > > > Here is the slightly longer, original version of a text by me on Kite > > Flying that appeare in the latest issue of Outlook, to mark the 15th > > of August. The version published in Outlook, titled 'Freedom on A > > String' is at http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?261336 > > > > Apologies for cross posting on Kafila > > > > best > > > > Shuddha > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > > Go, Fly a Kite > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > > > There is almost nothing about rituals of statehood that appeals to > > me. The speeches leave me cold and patriotic anthems are the worst, > > most ponderous form of music ever performed or invented. As for the > > pomp and circumstance of parades and other solemn but pathetic > > attempts at grandeur - they only repeat their lessons in how distant > > the apparatus of the state actually is from the lives of citizens. > > > > Typically, my attention, when flags are raised up poles, is less on > > the flag and more on the sweat on the brow of the man doing most of > > the actual hoisting. Because flags, like nations, get stuck in their > > destinies, and sometimes have to be tugged at vigorously to open and > > flap about, or let loose their meagre shower of yesterday's > > desiccated flower petals. The palpable anxiety of the hoister (who is > > worried about what might get written into his confidential report if > > the string snaps, or the flag stay’s tied up) and the thinly masked > > frustration on the visage of the attendant dignitary, (be they the > > principal of a school or the president of a republic ) who wants it > > all over and done with as quickly as possible, are the two > > performances that I find most moving on these moments. Apart, that > > is, from the sporadic defecations of ceremonial cavalry horses, > > caparisoned elephants and aloof camels brought out to lend the parade > > of the moment a touch of bio-diversity. Somehow, they ring truer than > > most other attempts to mark such occasions. > > > > Republic Day, with its pornography of ordnance, enormous waste of > > public money and tacky tableaux is probably the worst offender, but > > Independence Day, with its schoolchildren bused out to the Red Fort > > in Delhi and made to suffer the humiliation of security checks at the > > crack of a humid dawn, doesn't rank far behind. They, (the > > schoolchildren at Red Fort) lose a well-earned holiday, and nowadays, > > the rest of India gets a pious homily from behind bullet-proof glass. > > Rather than being an occasion for quiet, sober and perhaps personal > > reflection on what liberty might mean (especially when so many > > subjects of this republic are denied its substance) and whether it > > really needs to come all dressed up in the masquerade of a hollow > > state ritual, Independence Day has become an empty vessel for an > > increasingly narcissistic commemoration of what it means to simply > > 'be' Indian, as if that were of any real consequence. Meanwhile, the > > violence that marked partition, co-incident with 'Independence', goes > > un-mourned in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. The bizarre > > continuities, ranging from law and governance to the arcana of state > > ceremonials, between colonialism and its posthumous progeny - > > republican nationhood, remain un-reflected upon. What we get instead > > is an annual faux carnival of top-ten lists to do with an invented > > 'Indian-ness' dished out by magazines and television decked out in > > tri-colour bad taste. > > > > But there is something about the fifteenth of August that still > > means a lot to me, and that isn't about flying flags. It's about > > flying kites. The fifteenth of August, as anyone growing up in North > > India ought to know, is really all about manja and pench, about > > letting loose a full throated cry 'bho-katta', when an airborne kite > > snaps from its string in the sky, and the mad run and skirmish for > > its capture that follows before it hits the earth. Its about > > decoding a persons passions from the colours they choose for their > > kites, about learning to test the strength of paper and to sense the > > wind by licking your finger. These, and other elementary lessons in > > areodynamics are still reasons to look forward to the fifteenth of > > August each year. > > > > Perhaps it's a throwback to the boyhood thrill of holding a taut kite- > > string in the precarious rooftops and bylanes of a ‘refuzee’ colony > > in west Delhi, head cocked up, eyes locked in a steadfast gaze intent > > on scanning the clouded August sky, tracking distant, tiny but > > majestic diamonds of colour as the kites danced to the wind. Their > > flight taught me more about ‘attaining liberty’ and their spiralling > > descent more about ‘losing it’ than all the civics lessons on the > > meaning and significance of ‘Independence Day’ ever could. > > > > Anand Bakshi, in writing the lyrics for the film Kati Patang, > > (Drifting Kite) did not know that he had, perhaps unwittingly gifted > > us with the one of the most pithy ways of thinking about the destiny > > of nationhood and nationalism, that at least I know about. As the > > song goes, 'Na koi umang hai, na koi tarang hai', - there is neither > > a surge, nor a wave. Ships of state adrift in still, motionless > > waters, their flags just about fluttering in a spent tailwind, are to > > me like so many kati patang, drifting kites; neither surge, nor wave, > > and certainly no pious ritual, can lift them out of their torpor. > > > > What can one do, in such circumstances, but heed the call of Mary > > Poppins and her friends, Mr. Banks and Bert, and simply, 'go fly a > > kite'. > > > > "With tuppence for paper and strings > > > > You can have your own set of wings > > > > With your feet on the ground > > > > You're a bird in a flight > > > > With your fist holding tight > > > > To the string of your kite > > > > > > > > Oh, oh, oh! > > > > Let's go fly a kite > > > > Up to the highest height! > > > > Let's go fly a kite and send it soaring > > > > Up through the atmosphere > > > > Up where the air is clear > > > > Oh, let's go fly a kite!' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > > Raqs Media Collective > > shuddha at sarai.net > > www.sarai.net > > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 15:50:44 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 15:50:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Highlights_of_PM=92s_Independence_?= =?windows-1252?q?Day_speech_-_198?= In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40908150952i27dc0a43qc2990b53623b4788@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40908150524i55f06a9axb47e2f3812dc8833@mail.gmail.com> <0917C461-29B1-4AFD-B796-D9FE79CF49A9@sarai.net> <65be9bf40908150839v33f31c6eh7bad760118d9261c@mail.gmail.com> <20FEE02C-99B3-4E29-BAEC-669AA77CF2DB@sarai.net> <65be9bf40908150952i27dc0a43qc2990b53623b4788@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908160320o5ad3eef9yebf42ad8702902ab@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Taha, it may be interesting for you and many others to know that, any product that we buy in the market, be it a toothpaste or a brush or a shampoo, thanks to mnc companies, carries a twenty digit id, the first three digits signifying the nation of production, the next three, plant of production, batch, month and year of the product, last four digits being the price, so when the Nokia representative came in to witness box, she could depose that four mobiles made in china for Nokia were sold in Pakistan, were used in India,and as all consumer products now being sold with unique id, the mobiles have a feature of id, in China, it is said, that 100 units pass of as units with one sigle id, so there can be 100 mobiles with one single unique id number.! Now about human id cards, or numbers, which are based on biometric measurements, as per studies in humanities made of which results are not yet available in public domain, there are atleast 9 similar humans born at the same instant in the planet earth,so at birth, if id cards are given to one, all other 8 can use the same id number.! Because they match perfectly to biometric measurements to each other though born to different parents.! Further the research is tentative in surmising that 2 out of nine born, die early, natures law of survival of the fittest.! Apart from this, the study also reveals that leaders of almost all nations have body doubles for security reasons, first such body double was in India for Indira Priyadarshini, and later for some there were dual vehicles to move for logistics of security. Saddam Hussain, Bush and British PMs had body doubles in multiples according to these studies.! A word of caution, these are just speculations, as authentic details are not available, again for "security" reasons. But with id number, this issue may be really reassuring to some of our leaders as they have many "body doubles." Regards, Rajen. On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 10:22 PM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote: > it's seems to be a case of smart juggling of words to me. A clever > play of semantics and syntactic order to suggest new meaning. > > -Unprecedented growth- seems to be lower than -high growth- according > to the quote you pasted... > > You may have a point here, but I am sure you would have done the same, > had you been made to get up at six thirty in the morning and address > your beloved motherland while looking at a bunch of school children > getting drenched in morning showers. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 16:00:42 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 16:00:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908160257n5de4ecdfg24ca49d4fa00c301@mail.gmail.com> References: <7271ec560908140653w231ff75cyda0b88e641472430@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908150102s5488b5c1p51208b65d70c3903@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908150135h57e0a0ebkf7c36ec8eab88ab7@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908160257n5de4ecdfg24ca49d4fa00c301@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Rajen ji Thanks for caring about my parents' money (loan on parents' guarantee). In IIT however, it's not only my parents' money, but the nation's money which subsidizes my education. And when I do study on any issue, whether it be my courses or these, I know I have a responsibility to those who pay for me. And I don't wish to go ahead with wrong notions and further contribute to the destruction of my society. Equally, my consideration is for those who suffer in the name of 'technology' as well. So I can afford to "waste" my time on things which I can learn from and thereby contribute to my society. (And don't worry about my academic performance. I am doing well according to my batchmates and professors.) As for the rest of your post, thanks but no thanks. Not understanding each other is one thing, but the only thing I can find in your posts is utter disregard and abuse (fools, egoistic and so on), for those who don't wish to agree with you. They could be anti-national, intellectually showing-off, taking xerox of other's thoughts as well. And double-standards has been the forte of yours when you accuse me and others of the same. Do you think any sane citizen would tolerate that? And then, you accuse others of creating controversies? Going by your own words, I wonder why do you waste time on Sarai rather than concentrating on your own livelihood and performing your duties? Regards Rakesh From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 16:03:45 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 16:03:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Absence of Husain at Art Summit In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908150421r166fb733l8442242ae7e472e7@mail.gmail.com> References: <82285.22042.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <47e122a70908140631w10cdf369v3328f52b72c9060@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908141004g74fba8aeu7a033cb623075d1f@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70908141028p14e316b6nccfaf0e0867805cc@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908141034g49e11d5gac28a7867770dbac@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70908141041w4885a14cpb2f71c1a96341244@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150333i7620c240m385f7c0166c8668f@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150421r166fb733l8442242ae7e472e7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908160333j3921a83yc58747c32aff01c3@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, in the issue of censorship, obscene and incorrect etc, the novel that impressed me most was the one that i read, "The seven Minutes" by Irwin Wallace.Worthwhile reading material in contemporary society, relevant at all times. Regards, Rajen. On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Murali V wrote: > "I personally have always opposed the censorship of films, and feel > that while certiying films as being suitable or unsuitable for minors > may have some logic, the censor board for films should be scrapped. it > should have been scrapped long ago. " > > By the very same logic of yours, who the hell is the censor board to > certify minorship viewership which is based only on age and not on the > maturity level. It is very much possible that some one below 18 could > have maturity levels much higher than for his age > > Regards, > > On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta > wrote: > > Murali, > > I am surprised to see you equate artists with serial killers. On what > > grounds do you make this equation? An artist or a writer or a filmmaker > > offers something to our intelligence and our imagination (whether well or > > badly is a different question, and we are free, always not to engage with > > whatever it is that they offer if we choose not to). A serial killer > takes > > life, and that is irreversable. > > The victim of a serial killer does not have the choice of disengagement, > > which the audience or viewer of an artist, or a reader of a book > > always has. If you dont want to see the work of M.F. Husain, or, if > someone > > is offended by the sight of the so called 'Danish Cartoons' no one is > > forcing you, or them, to see what disturbs you. The matter should end > there. > > However, I see no reason why you, or those who cried themselves hoarse > > against the Danish cartoons should choose to obstruct the liberty of all > > other people from seeing what they want to see and making up their mind > > afterwards. > > We are all perfectly capable as individuals of deciding for ourselves > what > > we want to see and to show. I don't see how your discomfort (or the > > discomfort of others like you) should be of any consequence to anyone > else > > at all. I am not forcing you to see what I want to see, I am not forcing > you > > not to see what I dont want to see. What makes you so important that your > > desires and anxieties should govern the choices I make in my life. Who > the > > hell are you anyway to try and govern my behaviour. > > If you think you have the right to do so, you have a highly exaggerated > > sense of your own importance. Please stop deciding for the rest of us > what > > we should be free to see or not see. > > > I personally have always opposed the censorship of films, and feel that while certiying films as being suitable or unsuitable for minors may have some logic, the censor board for films should be scrapped. it should have been scrapped long ago. > > Shuddha > > > > > > On 15-Aug-09, at 4:03 PM, Murali V wrote: > > > > Dear Mr. Inder Salim, > > Why restrict freedom of expression to artists alone? To a serial > > killer also it is a freedom of expression. Why do we have a censor > > board for films? > > Regards, > > V Murali > > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 11:11 PM, Inder Salim > wrote: > > > > Dear Murali ji > > fine, if you want to a Hindu face of Muslim Fundamentalism, fine, > > i wont touch you, as both are more dangerous than swine flue to > > Freedom of Expression. > > about suggesting what Artists should do or what they should not. > > what do you think if they listen to each and every body about their > > inner drives to choose their subject matters. > > will there be art and poetry. > > imagine, Ghalib composing his verses after listening to a Maulana ji > > at the mosque > > let us laugh, and let the artistic freedom thrive in a society which > > is already reeling under threat from various other factors. > > with love > > is > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 11:04 PM, Murali V > wrote: > > > > Fine. I hope you would recall the Danish cartoon and its aftermath. > > Then why doesnt M F Hussain represent similar artistic thoughts to his > > faith. > > Regards, > > V Murali > > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 10:58 PM, Inder Salim > wrote: > > > > well, we are told to believe ( in Hinduism as well ) that God is one, > > has no gender, colour texuture or name, so no question depiting GOD > > with or without garments > > and if God exists in multiples, in all the faces of all the human > > beings, animals, plants, mountains seas, air and sunlight, then the > > question of depicting this way or that does alter very little since > > the surface is vast and endless. > > Art is fun, and strangely liberates those who look into eye of it > > constatnly. that is another matter, which needs a cool and patient > > listening.......... But, right now > > let us re-read what Justice Sanjay Kishan. Kaul said is his land > > mark2007 judgement in support of freedom of expresion, thus > > exonarating Artist MF Hussain from the so called indecent deptiction > > of Hindu Goddess, and simultaneously questioined the Right Wing Hindu > > intolarant and ingnorant face of our polity, who have nothing but an > > axe to grind. > > with love > > is > > > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Murali V > wrote: > > > > Well who is the next hindu godess to be depicted nude by M F Hussain. > > Regards, > > V Murali > > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Inder Salim > wrote: > > > > Dear all > > please click to see > > > http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_pllHvmNB5GI/Sn7kVWsGT2I/AAAAAAAAAPE/lF_BbjckUgg/s1600-h/sraswati+with+text1.jpg > > image in solidarity with MF Hussain > > with love > > inder salim > > > > On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 2:36 PM, ashok kumari wrote: > > > > we are submitting a memo to the home minister on Husain not being > included > > in the Art Summit. Please send your endorsement as soon as possible. > > Minister of Home Affairs > > Government of India > > North Block > > New Delhi > > Dear Shri Chidambaram, > > We - artists, gallerists and critics, are approaching you on behalf of > the > > artists community on the long standing issue of attempts by Hindu > right-wing > > groups to effectively impose a ban on exhibiting any work by our greatest > > living artist, 94 year old MF Husain, through threats of assault and > > violence. These groups, including the BJP, Bajrang Dal, Sri Ram Sena, the > > VHP, and the Shiv Sena have led a concerted communal campaign against > Husain > > accusing him of blasphemy since 1996. This campaign has taken a violent > form > > on many occasions and has also led to cases being filed against the > artist > > in courts across India, and has led to Husain's self-imposed exile. > > In a landmark judgement dismissing three such cases in the Delhi High > Court > > in 2007, Justice Sanjay Kishen Kaul defended the right of freedom of > > expression under the Constitution of India. The Union Ministry of > Culture, > > during the previous Art Summit held in 2008 had categorically stated > “Shri > > M. F. Husain is one of the most prominent artist of the country and the > > absence of his works at the India Art Summit will not reflect the true > art > > scenario of India.” > > We are very disturbed by reports that the upcoming International India > Art > > Summit taking place at Pragati Maidan from August 19-24th has asked > > participating galleries for the second year running to not display the > work > > of Husain citing fear of attacks. We enclose a report from the Telegraph > > which quotes them as saying that the Home Ministry has offered no > assurance > > of security. > > We find it shocking that the work of the most famous artist cannot be > shown > > in the country of his birth, even though he is not a criminal, nor is his > > work proscribed or banned. The Art Summit is being attended by luminaries > > from around the world, and it is a sad state of affairs that we, who > > justifiably pride ourselves as a great democracy, cannot resist threats > from > > these groups who we see as no less than other terrorists who threaten our > > daily lives. > > We request a meeting with you to apprise you of the art community's > anguish > > and concern. > > Yours Sincerely, > > Vivan Sundaram, Ram Rahman, Parthiv Shah, Shireen Gandhi, Dadiba Pundole, > > Geetha Mehra, Gayatri Sinha, Arun Vadhera, Renu Modi, Ashish Anand, > Devika > > Daulet Singh, Geeta Kapur, Peter Nagy > > ________________________________ > > See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out > Yahoo! > > Buzz. > > > > > > -- > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > > in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > > Raqs Media Collective > > shuddha at sarai.net > > www.sarai.net > > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Aug 16 16:41:58 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:11:58 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Highlights_of_PM=92s_Independence_?= =?windows-1252?q?Day_speech_-_198?= In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908160320o5ad3eef9yebf42ad8702902ab@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40908150524i55f06a9axb47e2f3812dc8833@mail.gmail.com> <0917C461-29B1-4AFD-B796-D9FE79CF49A9@sarai.net> <65be9bf40908150839v33f31c6eh7bad760118d9261c@mail.gmail.com> <20FEE02C-99B3-4E29-BAEC-669AA77CF2DB@sarai.net> <65be9bf40908150952i27dc0a43qc2990b53623b4788@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908160320o5ad3eef9yebf42ad8702902ab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40908160411h44ea701ck2e47501728311963@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rajen, Thank you for an insightful post. Please tell me, just as twenty digit Id numbers are useful for companies to tag -their- products. Products which are made after a cost is incurred by a company on procurement of raw materials, processing, packaging and subsequent distribution of finished products, so to, while allowing a State to tag us, should we now consider our selves, our bare lives, as something which do not belong to our selves, but to a Nation State, a parent company or a corporation which will decide what is good for us? Now this is a view which emanates, as a critique of ID cards, mainly from sociologists who have tried to understand kind of effect will a universal ID card have on the sense of self. This is not to suggest that your views are entirely incorrect but to prod whether we can think a bit more on two most important issues- Trust and Opportunity Cost. Can we in India really trust the State with our personal information? In other words, Is the government of India absolutely trust worthy to be given the co-ordinates of our personal identification information? What is the opportunity cost of investing 1,40,000 crore rupees? What kind of benefits can befall, if for instance, this kind money be invested in agriculture or improving the health infrastructure? We can also think about the issue of time here. It takes 5 years for the officers of the government of India to completely identify twelve hundred thousand people. Going by this rate, it will take four thousand years for the government to identify a billion people. If the Government is keen to make a register and more keen to distribute random numbers in just one and a half to five years then is the Government not guilty of haste. Impatience in matters pertaining to public policy is certainly not a virtue. Warm regards Taha From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Aug 16 16:44:34 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:14:34 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] MNIC: Parliament Questions - 38 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908160414l41ca7f8dncff1ea8606f2d265@mail.gmail.com> http://164.100.47.132/LssNew/psearch/QResult13.aspx?qref=43344 GOVERNMENT OF INDIA MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS LOK SABHA UNSTARRED QUESTION NO 1355 ANSWERED ON 23.07.2002 NATIONAL IDENTITY CARD 1355 . Shri VINAY KUMAR SORAKE (a) whether feasibility study of National Identity Card System has been completed; (b) if so, the details thereof and the time by which it is likely to be implemented; (c) whether this effort and expenditure would overlap the project already initiated by the Central Election Commission for the issue of electoral identity card; (d) whether the National Identity Card Project can utilize the data already in possession of CEC to major extent; and (e) if so, the details thereof? ANSWER MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI CH. VIDYASAGAR RAO) (a) & (b): Yes, Sir. The detailed feasibility report has covered aspects relating to the creation of an identification system of one billion people, streamlining of the machinery for the registration of births and deaths at the Panchayat level and institutional as well as technological options for the creation of an integrated database of personal identities capable of being continuously updated. The Government will finalize its decision only after an in-depth examination of all relevant issues and after necessary preparations are made for launching the system, including giving legal backing to the scheme. (c) to (e): Since the electoral identity cards issued by the Election Commission of India (ECI) is not a universal system of identification based on compulsory registration of Indian citizens or registrations of birth and deaths, the proposal of issue of Multipurpose National Identity Cards to the Indian citizens cannot be linked with it. However, the data base already in possession of the ECI would be taken into account while working out the modalities of implementation of the scheme. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 16:44:56 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 16:44:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Highlights_of_PM=92s_Independence_?= =?windows-1252?q?Day_speech_-_198?= In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908160320o5ad3eef9yebf42ad8702902ab@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40908150524i55f06a9axb47e2f3812dc8833@mail.gmail.com> <0917C461-29B1-4AFD-B796-D9FE79CF49A9@sarai.net> <65be9bf40908150839v33f31c6eh7bad760118d9261c@mail.gmail.com> <20FEE02C-99B3-4E29-BAEC-669AA77CF2DB@sarai.net> <65be9bf40908150952i27dc0a43qc2990b53623b4788@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908160320o5ad3eef9yebf42ad8702902ab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi (to all) I have some very basic questions regarding the PM's speech, because there seem to be interesting connections between what he said and what his govt has done (or ministers of his govt have done): 1) Firstly, the PM has warned hoarders and black marketers. Probably he forgot that since the past 3 years, food prices have been increasing as like never before. I read somewhere that 2004-2009 was the period of highest increase in food prices in history of independent India, considering 2004 as the base index to measure this increase.(Even assuming this is not true) If the PM knows that it's the hoarders who are the problem, shouldn't he also mention steps in and outside the Parliament, taken to stop hoarding and black-marketing.? (Of course, some economists attribute high prices to high MSP's of food crops in India, and some to the non-procurement of pulses and oilseeds by the FCI, thereby leaving it in private hands). Instead, all this while we have heard the ministers of the govt say that the prices will reduce with increase in supply or vice versa. But only now has Sharad Pawar acknowledged that the increase in prices has a connection other than that of good monsoon and drought. Will he try to find this connection? This is also critical considering the importance of the Right to Food scheme as well, which the UPA has announced in the Budget. 2) The govt keeps on talking about growth in agriculture. But except for increases in the allocations to agricultural sector in the Budget, the govt has done virtually nothing. Again, I remember having read multiple no. of times, including from that famous scientist, Mr. Swaminathan, that we need to invest in research in agriculture; just giving rural credit at 4-5% is not going to help, even if the reach of the public sector banks were to be ensured for the rural populace (to save them from the money-lender's wrath). What is the govt thinking of therefore, by just increasing allocations this way? The strangest part is that the varieties which were indigenous to India are now being patented by multinational companies and therefore our own farmers, can't use varieties which were used since several generations (talk of loss of our heritage, comes to my mind here). And these varieties were patented due to their high productivity and better resistance to pests. 3) The govt was actually asked to ensure universalization of ICDS (Integrated Child Development Scheme) by 2008, but it has shifted that goal to 2012. If the govt has so much amount to spend on defence and corporate subsidies, couldn't it have spent adequate amounts of money on ICDS and other schemes which are much beneficial for the poor. (Recently, I read that at least 50% of the population must be given BPL cards.* And I correct one more information which I used to give repeatedly on this forum. 80% of people in India don't spend more than Rs. 20 a day, as used to my earlier statement that 80% of people in India don't earn more than Rs. 20 a day. I apologize for the same.*) 4) The govt. has proposed to make cities slum free. Does the govt know that in slums like Dharavi, people in slums engage in activities which ensure they are categorized as self-employment? And by that I just don't mean those who repair cycles or those who repair electronics. That also includes some self-entrepreneurs who actually make commodities using their own labor and that of their families. There are many who get employment locally in the slums this way. If the houses were to be constructed, then where would these people be able to carry out their occupations? Already, there is no extension of the NREGA into the urban areas (probably due to fear of the corporates). And when the houses are built, they would have no place to actually carry out their occupational work. This would result in encroachment of footpaths and other public spaces, in due course of time, and further urban mismanagement. All this just to serve the purpose of real-estate sector giants who will build the houses with the govt paying for them. (and thereby also relieve land in the process for further construction purposes) Does the govt have an alternative plan to provide suitable markets for these people who will lose their livelihood this way? Or have the ministers in the govt sold themselves to the giants for money? 5) The PM says what others have said repeatedly, that participation in Assembly and Lok sabha elections indicates the support of the Indian state in the minds of people of J & K. But voting percentage being higher need not necessarily mean support of the Indian state, but could simply mean support of democracy as a method to rule, as also conducting elections. Also, there have been reports in the local media in that state of how candidates were given money to participate in elections and ensure a better voting percentage for elections. Has the PM even heard about them? And what about removing AFSPA? Or is that just separatist talk, and has nothing to do with democratic rights of the people? 6) The govt. talks about improving accountability under NREGA. But from what I know, the NREGA asks for a 'Grievance Redressal Authority' to be built up at State and National levels to ensure that complaints are taken care of. It is absent in almost all states of India. Why couldn't the govt implement an act which it had itself taken an initiative to get passed in Parliament, in its totality, is something I can't fathom. And recently, the govt has taken the initiative to ensure that works for small and marginal farmers' lands will be done under NREGA, without having discussed it either with those organizations who were fighting for the introduction of such an act for many years, nor with the people who work in these jobs in some measure (like some organizations). This when such organizations have been fighting tooth and nail against it, stating that such a recommendation would lead to non-transparency of working of NREGA. The govt may also like to answer about the Telecom Scam, the Rice Scam, the criticism by CAG of the 'Admiral Gorshkov' deal, the high costs involved in the 'Arihant', the malnutrition rates of India, the criticism of the Indian Railways by the CAG for its various initiatives, the working of the Surface & Transport Ministry under the previous UPA govt, the high MSP's (and their effect on food prices) and of course, the deadly duo of inflation and terrorism. Regards Rakesh From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Aug 16 16:45:28 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:15:28 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] MNIC: Parliament Questions - 39 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908160415p65c8f75cud7b4e5a76fefa050@mail.gmail.com> http://164.100.47.132/LssNew/psearch/QResult13.aspx?qref=48140 GOVERNMENT OF INDIA MINISTRY OF COMMUNICATIONS AND INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY LOK SABHA UNSTARRED QUESTION NO 2593 ANSWERED ON 31.07.2002 IDENTITY OF PRE- PAID CARD PURCHASERS 2593 . Shri PUTTASWAMY GOWDA (a) whether the Government have made pre-paid cards legal without verifying the true identity of users; (b) if so, the details thereof; and (c) if not, the reasons for not making it essential for Cellular Operators to verify the identity of the purchasers of pre-paid Cards? ANSWER THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF COMMUNICATIONS AND INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY (SHRIMATI SUMITRA MAHAJAN) (a)to (c): Sir, Cellular Mobile Telephone Service (CMTS) operators have been instructed to streamline the procedure and ensure complete advance verification of the identity of each and every subscriber, of Cellular Service including pre-paid/ cash service before providing the service. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Aug 16 17:12:24 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:42:24 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] UID Cards In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <65be9bf40908160442q483bb1a1v6754e89478912c15@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh, Thank you for posting this Tehelka write-up by Tusha Mittal on cards. I think for all of us on the reader-list who are following the ID card story, there is nothing too novel about the views which are expressed in this particular write up. We all know the various landmarks now, Kargil-MNIC- Pilot Project- Survey-Murshidabad- Pooth Khurd. The script to narrate the idea of NIC is being repeated all too often now. What is new perhaps is the way in which, somebody like Aruna Roy interprets the ID card exercise “This could help identify Hindus, Muslims, and Christians, and lead to communal violence,” says social activist Aruna Roy. To take this line of thinking further, could we allow ourselves to think that ID card will perpetuate casteism in India. Take an example, a company which has previously had a substantial number of employees from a particular high caste group suddenly discovers, thanks to a National ID card, that of the total number of new entrants to the organization about twenty percent belong to the so called scheduled castes group (who got access to education thanks to rigorous pursuance of affirmative action policies of the government which was again based on identification and therefore relied on a NIC ). I wonder, how would the HR team composed lets say of high caste people react to this phenomena or for that matter how would the top management respond when told that demographics of employees is showing a shift towards a possibility of a creation of a new social network of 'low caste people' ? If identity based on NIC can give social mobility to the 'poor' and 'under privileged' sections of our society then can it not become a hindrance too, for their possible inclusion in to established social networks? Warm regards Taha From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 16 17:15:09 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 04:45:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?Highlights_of_PM=E2=80=99s_Independence_D?= =?utf-8?q?ay_speech_-_198?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <970459.27428.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Rakesh   Could you please give the source (preferably the primary research source please) of this information that 80% of Indians do not earn/spend more than Rs 20 a day.   It is an extremely significant piece of information and needs to be duly corroborated by credible reference.   Kshmendar --- On Sun, 8/16/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: ........ And I correct one more information which I used to give repeatedly on this forum. 80% of people in India don't spend more than Rs. 20 a day, as used to my earlier statement that 80% of people in India don't earn more than Rs. 20 a day. I apologize for the same.*) ....... Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 17:16:00 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:16:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] UID Cards In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40908160442q483bb1a1v6754e89478912c15@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40908160442q483bb1a1v6754e89478912c15@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Taha This system actually works both ways in discrimination. One of my batchmates, I remember, being a resident of Chennai, told me that when one of his relatives went for interview for a post in Anna University, he was sneered at because he was a Brahmin (an Iyer), because the panel of interviewers were from backward castes and Dalits (5 interviewers total). (And he didn't get the job, as usual) Equally, in the north, I have heard of cases in the way you talk about. The point is that both of these are wrong, and they should be criticized. But criticism won't ensure it's not occurring again in the society. To do that, informed public discussion is a must. (Even for UID) Thanks for the complement. Regards Rakesh From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Aug 16 17:19:56 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:49:56 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] UID Cards In-Reply-To: References: <65be9bf40908160442q483bb1a1v6754e89478912c15@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40908160449n4e9ee561o67361f79c79f53b7@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh, Thanks for the reply. In hope that we talk it through first before resorting to mindless policies!!! Here's my two cheers.. Regards Taha From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 17:22:58 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:22:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Highlights_of_PM=92s_Independence_?= =?windows-1252?q?Day_speech_-_198?= In-Reply-To: <970459.27428.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <970459.27428.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Kshamendra I again apologize, because I am not exactly sure about this information as to whether they earn less than Rs. 20 a day or they spend less than Rs. 20 a day. I remember having read the latter, but this report looks at the former, and states that 77% of Indians get less than Rs. 20 per day(or Rs. 600 per month). Going by that data, the latter of course would be proven in any case (almost that is). Regards Rakesh Link: http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=5186260a-33b0-4825-ba7c-e7074a6fffa6&&Headline=A+third+of+Indians+live+on+Rs+20+a+day%2C+says+survey Article: What can Rs 20 possibly fetch? For 836 million Indians, Rs 20 per day, or Rs 600 a month, buys them their daily sustenance. Technically, a large chunk of these 836 million Indians — 77 per cent of the country’s population — are above the poverty line at Rs 12 per day. But the reality is that they remain dismally poor, comprising largely of STs, SCs, OBCs and Muslims, according to the report on *Conditions of Work and Promotion of Livelihood in the Unorganised Sector*. This is the the first authoritative study on the state of informal or unorganised employment in India, compiled by the National Commission for Enterprises in the Unorganised Sector (NCEUS), a government-affiliated body. If people do not earn, how will they spend or save, says Dr Arjun Sengupta The report is based on government data for the period between 1993-94 and 2004-05. A staggering 394.9 million workers, or 86 per cent of India’s working population, toil in the unorganised sector, which means they work without a social security cover. Nearly 80 per cent of these workers are among those who live on less than Rs 20 per day. NCEUS chairman Dr Arjun Sengupta said: “These are the discriminated, disadvantaged and downtrodden. People who live on Rs 20 or less per day are the real poor and vulnerable.” Sengupta told *HT* that Rs 20, which signifies consumption pattern, is an indicator of the person’s income and saving. “If people do not earn, how will they spend or save?” he added. Agriculture, the report found, was a fertile ground for poverty, especially for small and marginal farmers, 84 per cent of whom spent more than they earned and were often caught in debt traps. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 17:35:11 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:35:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Highlights_of_PM=92s_Independence_?= =?windows-1252?q?Day_speech_-_198?= In-Reply-To: References: <970459.27428.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Kshamendra I would like to add few more things. The level of Rs. 12 per day as poverty line, is one which is even below the extreme poverty level set by the World Bank as $1.25 (in PPP terms), which comes out to approximately about Rs. 21.6 in urban areas and around Rs 15 in rural areas. Hence, if we were to look at that line, then the very same report mentioned in the previous mail would probably increase the below-poverty line figure to 41-42% approximately. And now, recently, I read that NC Saxena, the commissioner appointed by the Supreme Court in the famous 'Right to Food' case, to look after implementation of the schemes like the Mid-day meal scheme, the ICDS and others by the state govts, had stated that 50% of the people in India should be given BPL cards (as head of a Committee formed by the Rural Development Ministry). Thanks for asking about the clarification. Regards Rakesh From kmvenuannur at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 17:57:51 2009 From: kmvenuannur at gmail.com (Venugopalan K M) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:57:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Corporate Dominance of Every Aspects of Our Lives Is Suffocating Us (By Helaine Olen, in AlterNet. ) Message-ID: <1f9180970908160527i48ea038eufdac9ba0bc982999@mail.gmail.com> http://www.alternet.org/media/141828/corporate_dominance_of_every_aspects_of_our_lives_is_suffocating_us/?page=entire Corporate Dominance of Every Aspects of Our Lives Is Suffocating us By Helaine Olen, AlterNet. Posted August 7, 2009. Author Doug Rushkoff warns of the dominance of profit and consumerism in our mindsets, and offers a way out of the corporate culture. Tools email EMAIL print PRINT 71 COMMENTS Share and save this post: Share on Facebook AlterNet Social Networks: follow us on twitter find us on Facebook Also in Media and Technology Rush Limbaugh's "Nazi" Rhetoric: Where's the Outrage? Eric Boehlert Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Lou Dobbs Enflame Scary Right-Wing Rage John V. Santore Whatever Happened to Progressive Talk Radio? Did Air America Kiss it Good Bye? Cynthia Lowen What the Mainstream Press Can Learn from Matt Taibbi's Takedown of Goldman Sachs Dean Starkman The New Yorker Magazine's Strange Embrace of Hate-Spewing Shock Jock Michael Savage Eric Boehlert Why You Should Be Watching Cable TV Comedies and Drama to Understand the Economy Alan Farago More stories by Helaine Olen RSS icon Media and Technology RSS Feed RSS icon Main AlterNet RSS Feed Advertisement Upcoming AlterNet stories on Digg Digg What is Digg? * 58 diggs Burning Questions for the Authors of 'Marijuana Is Safer' The authors of a new book on misconceptions about marijuana respond to the torrent of comments on an excerpt published on AlterNet. On August 6, AlterNet posted an excerpt from the new book Marijuana Is Safer: So Why Are We Driving Americans to Drink? (Chelsea Green, 2009). Reader response was overwhelming. Within hours, the excerpt was.... * 50 diggs 10 Awesome Things Would Happen If Health Reform Passes Forget the fearmongering scare tactics of the right, here's how your life will actually be better. The truth about health care reform. * 41 diggs Lou Dobbs Tours Single-Payer Systems Abroad and Realizes... Has CNN's government-out-of-my-face bloviator actually had a change of heart when it comes to Obama's health plan? * 32 diggs Right-Wing Militias Haven't Always Been Racist- they are now There are growing signs that militias are on the rise again and now their target isn't just government, but Blacks and Latinos. * 25 diggs 7 Ways We Can Fight Back Against the Rising Fascist Threat | Why the right-wing extremism must be stopped in its tracks or else we face the threat of outright violence and goon rule. Powered by Digg's Users Are we all corporate shills? That's the thesis of Doug Rushkoff's provocative new book Life Inc.: How the World Became a Corporation and How to Take it Back. Rushkoff, the new media theorist who came up with the term "viral media" in the early 1990s to describe how advertising concepts replicate in the virtual world like fast moving viruses, is now arguing that the corporate values of business, profit, and consumerism have so infected our lives that we are no longer cognizant life can be lived any other way. We are victims of a dysfunctional societal relationship -- one that has come to seem so normal we are almost incapable of processing of how screwed up it really is. The corporation, one might say, has gone viral. Rushkoff's epiphany came via a Christmas Eve mugging in the leafy brownstone liberal Brooklyn enclave of Park Slope. When he turned to a local parenting listserv to tell of his experience, his virtual first responders did not offer sympathy. Instead, they castigated him for publicly naming the block where the crime occurred, for fear it would damage local real estate values. "It's as if the world itself were tilted, pushing us toward self-interested, short-term decisions, made more in the manner of corporate shareholders than members of a society," Rushkoff writes. "The more decisions we make in this way, the more we contribute to the very conditions leading to this awfully sloped landscape." The corporation developed in the Renaissance, as royal governments attempted to hold onto their power and wealth in the face of rising capitalist merchant class tide. Corporations, in a sense, even founded the United States; We forget that colonists at Jamestown and Plymouth were not simply go-it-alone adventurers and religious zealots seeking wealth and religious freedom, but were sponsored by chartered business enterprises. The corporation's most recent heyday occurred post World War II, where government officials, desperate to avoid another calamitous economic depression and violent upheaval, instead convinced Americans of the value of consumerism and business to save our lives. We are now living with the results of that decision. Everything from the deserted and boarded up main streets of our small suburban towns to the winner-take-all financial economy of bloated bonuses, banking crashes and flat-out fraud is the result. So what to do? Rushkoff argues the answer is within all of us. Think local, think small, think about your community as a collection of individuals in need of help and support, not a temporary real estate investment. In the end, his message has much in common with another cri di coeur of 21st century American life, Sam Lipsyte's 2005 novel Home Land. In his marvelous speech near the end of the book, Home Land's narrator/protagonist Lewis Minor tells his fellow high school alumni how to live their lives, which includes many of the points Rushkoff hits on in his non-fiction jeremiad. "Don't expect a goddamn handout from the very people who have worked so hard to hijack your opportunities …Have faith. Take stock. Take five. Never surrender. Live to fight another day. Better a dead dog than sleeping all the time." AlterNet sat down with Rushkoff recently to discuss how the corporation became us and what we can do to recover. Helaine Olen: How do we internalize corporate values? How does it happen? Doug Rushkoff: It happens over time. What happens is corporations like automobile industry have a need for roads or the energy industry has a need for regulation that doesn't let people use solar. So they go to government and get laws written that change -- they get laws written to get the things they want. So they basically steer the rail road through the real estate that they want to own or the automobile industry wants more people to use cars, so they get their guy in to be Secretary of Defense and he builds roads for cars and develop suburbs that require people to use cars to get to work. The next generation that grows up with things being that way, thinks that things just are that way. So the way we internalize corporate values is by assuming that the rules that are in place are pre-existing conditions of the universe rather than rules made by certain people at certain times. Helaine Olen: Do you think Americans are susceptible to the lure of corporate values than other nations? We were founded as a corporation. Jamestown was sponsored by a corporation. So was the Mayflower. Is it in our blood? Doug Rushkoff: What's in our blood more it is the need to believe. We are very, we are idealistic, optimistic, Calvinist spiritual people. So we have got that Frank Baum yellow brick road and that longing for heaven for reward that disconnects us from the moment That's why we are so susceptible to consumerism and propaganda. It's so beautiful that we want to believe. But the belief itself is disconnecting. Helaine Olen: When do you feel it took off in this country? Reaganism is the traditional blame period but in Life Inc. you reference an earlier period. Doug Rushkoff: I would say that the last great reset moment we could have had was when veterans were returning from World War II. FDR and his administration feared that the veterans would be crazy and have all this civil unrest. The government with folks like the Levitt Brothers to develop communities that isolated men from one another, focus them on the nuclear family and pre-occupied them instead with collecting consumer goods which would in turn keep the industrial age economy growing as needed to. Helaine Olen: One on one level you could say it worked. We've not had a major war in 60 yrs. Is that a bad thing? Doug Rushkoff: It worked but there are some consequences to the way it worked. In order to keep the economy growing at that rate, we had to create a consumer society of people looking for short term satisfaction over long term work. We ended up creating an economy that's much more dependent on speculation than it is the creation of real goods. We ended up having to expand through use of geopolitical terror because colonialism was over. So we ended up really destroying lot of developing nations in order to develop ourselves and we ended up in the long run bankrupting ourselves. Helaine Olen: It was a temporary fix then? Doug Rushkoff: It was a temporary fix, I mean everything is a temporary fix when you look at it as a fix which is why we have got to the point where, we are going to have to learn to do something and create, we are going to have to create value. Helaine Olen: So we are going to back to reset again? Doug Rushkoff: Right, either we would have to create value or the other alternative is to develop a fiscal policy that's based on model of abundance rather than the model of scarcity. Creating scarce markets for things works really well when there is a scarce market for things. If we can flip that and think or maybe an act we actually have enough food and stuff that we could probably, I couldn't do believe this we could get by in just America, we could probably each of those work maybe two days a week and have all the stuff we need. Helaine Olen: Does the Internet help us or does it hurt us? The Internet was supposed to save us from all this but it seems to have turned into uber-Big Brother instead. Was it always oversold, did corporate interest infiltrate it or are we so corporate ourselves we made it in our image? Doug Rushkoff: We are just simply corporate ourselves and we made it in our image again. The computer and Internet are modeling systems and we could have used them to model anything and we chose to use them to model the economy as we currently understood it, but we are still in the beginning we are still in the opening rallies. So I think the... the beauty of the Internet is that it has made people understand an abundant economy. Helaine Olen: So how do you work for that? Doug Rushkoff: Convincing people to stop outsourcing all of their economic activity, consumption and production to extremely inefficient long distance corporations that extract the human value without creating any values. You lose all your leverage. That's not to say that everyone has to do everything in some protest against every corporation out there but what if you reclaim the 90% of stuff that you can do locally or with friends and just give corporations 10% of what they need? It's the most activist thing you can do. Just the idea that people are now going to save maybe eight percent instead of three percent of their money has people shuddering in finance. Helaine Olen: Just start with one small step . . . Doug Rushkoff: That one small step is so big. Helaine Olen: You talked about how that corporation was created during the Renaissance. Why does it persist? Doug Rushkoff: It persisted because kings rewrote laws to preserve corporations whenever I mean corporation. Corporations were invented by kings as a way they could make money by having money and creating no value themselves. So they granted monopoly charters to their friends in return for shares in those companies. And it persisted because the kings were able to write laws that gave corporations unfair advantage at every term. So whenever corporations have been threatened by some form of competition or another, the king or in our era government ends up rewriting the laws to favor corporate activity over competitive local, small business activity. It's just corruption. Helaine Olen: One thing I like about your book was, one said it was not traditionally political, I mean, you start out by attacking your former rather left wing neighborhood as much as more traditional right wing bugaboos. Doug Rushkoff: They are not left wing. They convince us of their virtue by voting for Obama or holding meet ups or buying their stuff from the people who advertise on a new green shopping portal instead of some other shopping portal. In the end, virtue is not a consumer profile. Virtue is a way of actually engaging with other people in real life. Helaine Olen: What do you think of Barack Obama? Doug Rushkoff: He went wrong. Helaine Olen: Are you surprised? Doug Rushkoff: I am surprised because I know that Obama is smarter than me. I know that he is, but I think he has a false faith or misplaced faith in central bureaucracies and institutions and he really believes that the way to save the economy is to bail out banking. The second problem is that the people he is entrusted to enact that model are Goldman Sachs executives and corrupt. So even if the model he thought would work could work, the people he is paying to do it are keeping the money. It's as corrupt as corrupt gets. Helaine Olen: So what do you do? Doug Rushkoff: I don't think you say fuck it, they are unjust, they are bad people they are doing bad shit affair with that money. What you do is you say that economy they are working in has nothing to do with me. I am going to, I am going to work two days a week at the community support agriculture that's close by, I am going to volunteer in my public school or work in a library. I am going to just disconnect from that economy and realize that dropping out is not dropping out, dropping out of that is dropping back in to the real world. They have claimed the virtual world and they built that and they have convinced us that is where the action is. The action is not there, the action is here with your kids and the food and water that are going into their little cells everyday and that thing that they are doing up there can't last forever. It really can't. -- You cannot build anything on the foundations of caste. You cannot build up a nation, you cannot build up a morality. Anything that you will build on the foundations of caste will crack and will never be a whole. -AMBEDKAR http://venukm.blogspot.com http://www.shelfari.com/kmvenuannur http://kmvenuannur.livejournal.com From kmvenuannur at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 18:20:42 2009 From: kmvenuannur at gmail.com (Venugopalan K M) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 18:20:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] Danger on the Right In-Reply-To: <000f01ca18b4$95ea7170$c1bf5450$@net> References: <000f01ca18b4$95ea7170$c1bf5450$@net> Message-ID: <1f9180970908160550w1fc3154ejeafd13c8119e7ceb@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: mary rose Date: Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 11:15 AM Subject: [GJM] FW: [globalnetnews-summary] Danger on the Right To: Discussion Forum for Global Justice , FixGov at yahoogroups.com Change takes place on the fringe of chaos. We are but seeing the results of seeds sown. -----Original Message----- From: globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net [mailto:globalnetnews-summary-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of TradingPostPaul Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 7:40 PM To: globalnetnews-summary at lists.riseup.net Subject: [globalnetnews-summary] Danger on the Right Danger on the Right August 7, 2009 07:08 PM http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-zogby/danger-on-the-right_b_254421.html There is a social movement stirring on the far right of American politics and it bodes ill for our future. It is, in the classic sense, a movement, not an organization, with no coherent structure, no creed or litmus test for membership. Rather, it represents disparate currents, born of transformative developments and traumatic events that have impacted the US in recent decades. This movement has manifested itself in several forms. There are the anti-immigrant armed militias patrolling our southern border keeping out "illegals." There are also the "tax party" demonstrators, many of whom have morphed into the angry chanting mobs that are now disrupting Congressional town meetings over health care reform. And there are the so-called "birthers," a not so small fringe on the far-right, that questions Barack Obama's birth in the US and, therefore, his right to hold the office of president. If the individuals involved in these currents have anything in common, it is that they are angry and alienated and have identified "government" as a source of their problems and, therefore, as a target of their wrath. Behind all of this discontent, of course, are real problems. The economic crisis in America did not just begin with the collapse of the financial sector in the fall of 2008. For years now, the US economy has undergone a steady transformation. The loss of our manufacturing base has resulted in dramatic social dislocation evidenced by the collapse of many once prosperous and stable communities. As factories closed, not only were jobs lost and economic security threatened, but people were forced to move, neighborhoods died and families were at risk. All during the 1990's, despite gains on Wall Street, many middle class Americans were squeezed. Real incomes declined, costs of health care, education and basic commodities rose, resulting not only in a declining standard of living for many, but, for the 1st time in American history, a significant portion of the middle class began to question whether their children would be able to achieve the same economic status as their parents. The trauma of 9/11 and Katrina presented a double jolt, shaking to an even greater degree American's sense of security and their confidence in the government's ability to perform. Add to this a nativist/racist current, fueled by large numbers of immigrants from the south and fear of new foreigners (especially, after 9/11, Muslims) and the persistent presence of anti-black sentiment, and you have the ingredients of the lethal brew that is now coming to a boil. All of this, however, did not erupt spontaneously, it was helped, fueled by fires set by those who sought, in ways subtle and not so subtle, to exploit the fears afoot across the land. Radical talk show hosts like Rush Limbaugh and Mike Savage, Fox News and even CNN's Lou Dobbs exploited these issues -- as did President George W. Bush's political adviser, Karl Rove, who used it for electoral success. Even Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign playbook tapped into these currents, as did the McCain/Palin campaign strategists. And so here we are in the midst of a hot summer, with "birthers" fulminating about Obama's "foreignness," angry mobs breaking up town meetings, and polling numbers showing a deepening partisan divide across the nation. All the while these events are unfolding, analysts and commentators are spending endless hours of airtime observing and pointing accusing fingers, without making an effort to understand how this came to be and where it can go. Some conservatives are surely at fault for thinking they can simply exploit this anger, turning it on and then off, at will. And some liberals, too, are at fault for dismissing the anger they see, suggesting that it is simply manufactured and artificial and, therefore, can be ignored. I am reminded of similar developments that occurred in 1919 at the beginning of the "Red Scare." Then too, a national movement, fueled by fears of immigration, economic dislocation and wartime anti-foreign bigotry was exploited by some, ignored by others, until it got out of control, with lethal consequences. If we are not careful and understanding, and if we do not start now, both to address this troubling anger and alienation, and to hold accountable those who are stoking the embers of discontent, we could end up in the throes of a full-fledged nativist siege that could tear apart the fabric of our nation. _______________________________________________ Discussion mailing list Discussion at globaljusticemovement.net http://globaljusticemovement.net/mailman/listinfo/discussion_globaljusticemovement.net -- You cannot build anything on the foundations of caste. You cannot build up a nation, you cannot build up a morality. Anything that you will build on the foundations of caste will crack and will never be a whole. -AMBEDKAR http://venukm.blogspot.com http://www.shelfari.com/kmvenuannur http://kmvenuannur.livejournal.com From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 18:28:17 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 18:28:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Corporate Dominance of Every Aspects of Our Lives Is Suffocating Us (By Helaine Olen, in AlterNet. ) In-Reply-To: <1f9180970908160527i48ea038eufdac9ba0bc982999@mail.gmail.com> References: <1f9180970908160527i48ea038eufdac9ba0bc982999@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Venu Your post reminds me of the 'Buddhist economics' approach of E.F.Schumacher, which my professor for 'Development Alternatives' emphasized on, as the right way to development. This simply means choosing what Buddha always stressed on: 'the middle path'. Thanks for the link Regards Rakesh From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 16 18:56:40 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 06:26:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?Highlights_of_PM=E2=80=99s_Independence_D?= =?utf-8?q?ay_speech_-_198?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <195429.25085.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Rakesh   Thank you for the "News Item" on the NCEUS report based on 2004-05 figures.   Looks like the World Bank was wide off the mark when some of it's officials were reported in 2007 as giving estimates that 80% of India's population lives on less than $2 a day.   Interesting figures and lead to very interesting extrapolations.   Kshmendra       --- On Sun, 8/16/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: From: Rakesh Iyer Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Highlights of PM’s Independence Day speech - 198 To: "Kshmendra Kaul" Cc: "Sarai Reader-list" Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 5:22 PM Dear Kshamendra I again apologize, because I am not exactly sure about this information as to whether they earn less than Rs. 20 a day or they spend less than Rs. 20 a day. I remember having read the latter, but this report looks at the former, and states that 77% of Indians get less than Rs. 20 per day(or Rs. 600 per month). Going by that data, the latter of course would be proven in any case (almost that is). Regards Rakesh Link: http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=5186260a-33b0-4825-ba7c-e7074a6fffa6&&Headline=A+third+of+Indians+live+on+Rs+20+a+day%2C+says+survey Article: What can Rs 20 possibly fetch? For 836 million Indians, Rs 20 per day, or Rs 600 a month, buys them their daily sustenance. Technically, a large chunk of these 836 million Indians — 77 per cent of the country’s population — are above the poverty line at Rs 12  per day. But the reality is that they remain dismally poor, comprising largely of STs, SCs, OBCs and Muslims, according to the report on Conditions of Work and Promotion of Livelihood in the Unorganised Sector. This is the the first authoritative study on the state of informal or unorganised employment in India, compiled by the National Commission for Enterprises in the Unorganised Sector (NCEUS), a government-affiliated body. If people do not earn, how will they spend or save, says Dr Arjun Sengupta The report is based on government data for the period between 1993-94 and 2004-05. A staggering 394.9 million workers, or 86 per cent of India’s working population, toil in the unorganised sector, which means they work without a social security cover. Nearly 80 per cent of these workers are among those who live on less than Rs 20 per day. NCEUS chairman Dr Arjun Sengupta said: “These are the discriminated, disadvantaged and downtrodden. People who live on Rs 20 or less per day are the real poor and vulnerable.” Sengupta told HT that Rs 20, which signifies consumption pattern, is an indicator of the person’s income and saving. “If people do not earn, how will they spend or save?” he added. Agriculture, the report found, was a fertile ground for poverty, especially for small and marginal farmers, 84 per cent of whom spent more than they earned and were often caught in debt traps. From kmvenuannur at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 19:04:51 2009 From: kmvenuannur at gmail.com (Venugopalan K M) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 19:04:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Corporate Dominance of Every Aspects of Our Lives Is Suffocating Us (By Helaine Olen, in AlterNet. ) In-Reply-To: References: <1f9180970908160527i48ea038eufdac9ba0bc982999@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f9180970908160634u2b8f1defsac6b64f74c8b1754@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh, I feel the Buddhist 'middle path' has largely been misunderstood for not engaging with the powers that be; that way, it would even fail to make sense to many who want peace and yet look for radical initiatives toward change . Thanks, Venu. On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 6:28 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear Venu > > Your post reminds me of the 'Buddhist economics' approach of E.F.Schumacher, > which my professor for 'Development Alternatives' emphasized on, as the > right way to development. This simply means choosing what Buddha always > stressed on: 'the middle path'. > > Thanks for the link > > Regards > > Rakesh > -- You cannot build anything on the foundations of caste. You cannot build up a nation, you cannot build up a morality. Anything that you will build on the foundations of caste will crack and will never be a whole. -AMBEDKAR http://venukm.blogspot.com http://www.shelfari.com/kmvenuannur http://kmvenuannur.livejournal.com From indersalim at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 19:44:46 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 19:44:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Absence of Husain at Art Summit In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908160333j3921a83yc58747c32aff01c3@mail.gmail.com> References: <82285.22042.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <47e122a70908140631w10cdf369v3328f52b72c9060@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908141004g74fba8aeu7a033cb623075d1f@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70908141028p14e316b6nccfaf0e0867805cc@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908141034g49e11d5gac28a7867770dbac@mail.gmail.com> <47e122a70908141041w4885a14cpb2f71c1a96341244@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150333i7620c240m385f7c0166c8668f@mail.gmail.com> <4eab87870908150421r166fb733l8442242ae7e472e7@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908160333j3921a83yc58747c32aff01c3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70908160714q3582291cqd885b370066ff2a3@mail.gmail.com> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_pllHvmNB5GI/SogSvMHQRFI/AAAAAAAAAP0/qDd7PvEA8d8/s1600-h/Dwilinga_Lakulish%5B1%5D+small.jpg please click the above to see Dwilinga Lakulish..Mandsaur...3rd 4th century, bhopal museum . a roop of Shiva one such is in our Natioinal Musuem with but with only one linga with love is On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi wrote: > Dear all, >    in the issue of censorship, obscene and incorrect etc, the novel that > impressed me most was the one that i read, "The seven Minutes" > by Irwin Wallace.Worthwhile reading material in contemporary society, > relevant at all times. > > Regards, > > Rajen. > > On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Murali V wrote: > >> "I personally have always opposed the censorship of films, and feel >> that while certiying films as being suitable or unsuitable for minors >> may have some logic, the censor board for films should be scrapped. it >> should have been scrapped long ago. " >> >> By the very same logic of yours, who the hell is the censor board to >> certify minorship viewership which is based only on age and not on the >> maturity level. It is very much possible that some one below 18 could >> have maturity levels much higher than for his age >> >> Regards, >> >> On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> wrote: >> > Murali, >> > I am surprised to see you equate artists with serial killers. On what >> > grounds do you make this equation? An artist or a writer or a filmmaker >> > offers something to our intelligence and our imagination (whether well or >> > badly is a different question, and we are free, always not to engage with >> > whatever it is that they offer if we choose not to). A serial killer >> takes >> > life, and that is irreversable. >> > The victim of a serial killer does not have the choice of disengagement, >> > which the audience or viewer of an artist, or a reader of a book >> > always has. If you dont want to see the work of M.F. Husain, or, if >> someone >> > is offended by the sight of the so called 'Danish Cartoons' no one is >> > forcing you, or them, to see what disturbs you. The matter should end >> there. >> > However, I see no reason why you, or those who cried themselves hoarse >> > against the Danish cartoons should choose to obstruct the liberty of all >> > other people from seeing what they want to see and making up their mind >> >  afterwards. >> > We are all perfectly capable as individuals of deciding for ourselves >> what >> > we want to see and to show. I don't see how your discomfort (or the >> > discomfort of others like you) should be of any consequence to anyone >> else >> > at all. I am not forcing you to see what I want to see, I am not forcing >> you >> > not to see what I dont want to see. What makes you so important that your >> > desires and anxieties should govern the choices I make in my life. Who >> the >> > hell are you anyway to try and govern my behaviour. >> >  If you think you have the right to do so, you have a highly exaggerated >> > sense of your own importance. Please stop deciding for the rest of us >> what >> > we should be free to see or not see. >> > >> I personally have always opposed the censorship of films, and feel that while certiying films as being suitable or unsuitable for minors may have some logic, the censor board for films should be scrapped. it should have been scrapped long ago. >> > Shuddha >> > >> > >> > On 15-Aug-09, at 4:03 PM, Murali V wrote: >> > >> > Dear Mr. Inder Salim, >> > Why restrict freedom of expression to artists alone?  To a serial >> > killer also it is a freedom of expression. Why do we have a censor >> > board for films? >> > Regards, >> > V Murali >> > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 11:11 PM, Inder Salim >> wrote: >> > >> > Dear Murali ji >> > fine, if you want to a Hindu face of Muslim Fundamentalism, fine, >> > i wont touch you, as both are  more dangerous than swine flue to >> > Freedom of Expression. >> > about suggesting what Artists should do or what they should not. >> > what do you think if they listen to each and every body about their >> > inner drives to choose their subject matters. >> > will there  be art and poetry. >> > imagine, Ghalib composing his verses after listening to a Maulana ji >> > at the mosque >> > let us laugh, and let the artistic freedom thrive in a society which >> > is already reeling under threat from various other factors. >> > with love >> > is >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 11:04 PM, Murali V >> wrote: >> > >> > Fine. I hope you would recall the Danish cartoon  and its aftermath. >> > Then why doesnt M F Hussain represent similar artistic thoughts to his >> > faith. >> > Regards, >> > V Murali >> > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 10:58 PM, Inder Salim >> wrote: >> > >> > well, we are told to believe ( in Hinduism as well ) that God is one, >> > has no gender, colour  texuture or name, so no question depiting GOD >> > with or without garments >> > and if  God exists in multiples, in all the faces of all the human >> > beings, animals, plants, mountains seas, air and sunlight, then the >> > question of depicting this way or that does alter very little since >> > the surface is vast and endless. >> > Art is fun, and strangely liberates those who look into eye of it >> > constatnly. that is another matter, which needs a cool and patient >> > listening.......... But, right now >> > let us re-read what  Justice  Sanjay Kishan. Kaul said is his land >> > mark2007 judgement in support of freedom of expresion,  thus >> > exonarating  Artist MF Hussain from the so called indecent deptiction >> > of Hindu Goddess,  and simultaneously questioined the Right Wing Hindu >> > intolarant and ingnorant face of our polity, who have nothing but an >> > axe to grind. >> > with love >> > is >> > >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Murali V >> wrote: >> > >> > Well who is the next hindu godess to be depicted nude by M F Hussain. >> > Regards, >> > V Murali >> > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Inder Salim >> wrote: >> > >> > Dear all >> > please click to see >> > >> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_pllHvmNB5GI/Sn7kVWsGT2I/AAAAAAAAAPE/lF_BbjckUgg/s1600-h/sraswati+with+text1.jpg >> > image in solidarity with MF Hussain >> > with love >> > inder salim >> > >> > On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 2:36 PM, ashok kumari wrote: >> > >> > we are submitting a memo to the home minister on Husain not being >> included >> > in the Art Summit. Please send your endorsement as soon as possible. >> > Minister of Home Affairs >> > Government of India >> > North Block >> > New Delhi >> > Dear Shri Chidambaram, >> > We - artists, gallerists and critics, are approaching you on behalf of >> the >> > artists community on the long standing issue of attempts by Hindu >> right-wing >> > groups to effectively impose a ban on exhibiting any work by our greatest >> > living artist, 94 year old MF Husain, through threats of assault and >> > violence. These groups, including the BJP, Bajrang Dal, Sri Ram Sena, the >> > VHP, and the Shiv Sena have led a concerted communal campaign against >> Husain >> > accusing him of blasphemy since 1996. This campaign has taken a violent >> form >> > on many occasions and has also led to cases being filed against the >> artist >> > in courts across India, and has led to Husain's self-imposed exile. >> > In a landmark judgement dismissing three such cases in the Delhi High >> Court >> > in 2007, Justice Sanjay Kishen Kaul defended the right of freedom of >> > expression under the Constitution of India. The Union Ministry of >> Culture, >> > during the previous Art Summit held in 2008 had categorically stated >> “Shri >> > M. F. Husain is one of the most prominent artist of the country and the >> > absence of his works at the India Art Summit will not reflect the true >> art >> > scenario of India.” >> > We are very disturbed by reports that the upcoming International India >> Art >> > Summit taking place at Pragati Maidan from August 19-24th has asked >> > participating galleries for the second year running to not display the >> work >> > of Husain citing fear of attacks. We enclose a report from the Telegraph >> > which quotes them as saying that the Home Ministry has offered no >> assurance >> > of security. >> > We find it shocking that the work of the most famous artist cannot be >> shown >> > in the country of his birth, even though he is not a criminal, nor is his >> > work proscribed or banned. The Art Summit is being attended by luminaries >> > from around the world, and it is a sad state of affairs that we, who >> > justifiably pride ourselves as a great democracy, cannot resist threats >> from >> > these groups who we see as no less than other terrorists who threaten our >> > daily lives. >> > We request a meeting with you to apprise you of the art community's >> anguish >> > and concern. >> > Yours Sincerely, >> > Vivan Sundaram, Ram Rahman, Parthiv Shah, Shireen Gandhi, Dadiba Pundole, >> > Geetha Mehra, Gayatri Sinha, Arun Vadhera, Renu Modi, Ashish Anand, >> Devika >> > Daulet Singh, Geeta Kapur, Peter Nagy >> > ________________________________ >> > See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out >> Yahoo! >> > Buzz. >> > >> > >> > -- >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe >> > in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe >> > in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > http://indersalim.livejournal.com >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe >> > in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> > _________________________________________ >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> > Critiques & Collaborations >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe >> > in the subject header. >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > >> > Shuddhabrata Sengupta >> > The Sarai Programme at CSDS >> > Raqs Media Collective >> > shuddha at sarai.net >> > www.sarai.net >> > www.raqsmediacollective.net >> > >> > >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> > > > > -- > Rajen. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 19:57:57 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 19:57:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Highlights_of_PM=92s_Independence_?= =?windows-1252?q?Day_speech_-_198?= In-Reply-To: <195429.25085.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <195429.25085.qm@web57208.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Kshamendra A correction. The World Bank was not off the mark when it made that remark. The reason is simple. The $2 we talk about can either be in PPP or in exchange rate terms. In terms of exchange rate, since $1 generally lies in the Rs. 40-50 range, at the lowest it means that 80% of the Indians at least live below Rs. 80 per day, which is factually true going by the NCEUS report. On the other hand, assuming it's the PPP value, $1 is equal to Rs. 10 (or more) approximately, and therefore $2 = Rs 20, and the NCEUS report again proves it (Rs. 21.6 in urban areas is close to Rs. 20). Therefore, it is not wide off the mark. There's a controversy regarding which is the better method to find the value of a currency, in PPP or market-exchange rates. I don't know what to say about it, hence I restrict myself to just giving this additional piece of information. Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 20:00:13 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:00:13 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Corporate Dominance of Every Aspects of Our Lives Is Suffocating Us (By Helaine Olen, in AlterNet. ) In-Reply-To: <1f9180970908160634u2b8f1defsac6b64f74c8b1754@mail.gmail.com> References: <1f9180970908160527i48ea038eufdac9ba0bc982999@mail.gmail.com> <1f9180970908160634u2b8f1defsac6b64f74c8b1754@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Venu Buddha, like Gandhi, believed in the power of the self and therefore relied on the self-agency to actually shun away extremism and adopt the 'middle path'. Of course, the ideas and views are idealistic considering the world as we see it, and I agree with you on that count. Regards Rakesh From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 16 20:45:56 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 08:15:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?Highlights_of_PM=E2=80=99s_Independence_D?= =?utf-8?q?ay_speech_-_198?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <506434.48708.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Rakesh   You comment "it means that 80% of the Indians at least live below Rs. 80 per day, which is factually true going by the NCEUS report" was ..... an amusing play of words.   The World Bank usually gives figures on the basis of PPP.    Your currency conversion for In Rs under PPP is not borne out by any known data (to the best of my info). From where did you pick up the rate of $1 = Rs 10?   For the International Dollar the factor in 2008 is generally reported as between 2.65 and 2.74 for the In Rs.   $2 (under PPP) would therefore at worst be around Rs 35 (nominal rate Rs 48)  and Rs 29.19 (nominal rate Rs 40).   You seem to be keen to accept the National Commission for Enterprises in the Unorganized Sector (NCEUS) figures as being correct. Your choice.    Kshmendra   --- On Sun, 8/16/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: From: Rakesh Iyer Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Highlights of PM’s Independence Day speech - 198 To: "Kshmendra Kaul" Cc: "Sarai Reader-list" Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 7:57 PM Dear Kshamendra A correction. The World Bank was not off the mark when it made that remark. The reason is simple. The $2 we talk about can either be in PPP or in exchange rate terms. In terms of exchange rate, since $1 generally lies in the Rs. 40-50 range, at the lowest it means that 80% of the Indians at least live below Rs. 80 per day, which is factually true going by the NCEUS report. On the other hand, assuming it's the PPP value, $1 is equal to Rs. 10 (or more) approximately, and therefore $2 = Rs 20, and the NCEUS report again proves it (Rs. 21.6 in urban areas is close to Rs. 20). Therefore, it is not wide off the mark. There's a controversy regarding which is the better method to find the value of a currency, in PPP or market-exchange rates. I don't know what to say about it, hence I restrict myself to just giving this additional piece of information. Regards Rakesh From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 21:03:08 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 21:03:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Highlights_of_PM=92s_Independence_?= =?windows-1252?q?Day_speech_-_198?= In-Reply-To: <506434.48708.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <506434.48708.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Kshamendra The problem is that the sources I did get for the PPP conversion (from dollars to rupees) have different datas. The one I got for petrol was stating that it was about Rs. 10 as per 2000 data, whereas there was one which stated that Rs. 13.60 as per 2007 data (Wikipedia source). Hence, you are right when you talk about my having chosen that value of Rs. 10. I chose it, as an unfortunate consequence, of not having proper info, taking the lowest value into account, to avoid any kind of bias in calculation. Hence also, I didn't mention the source. (Then again, the World Bank data I mentioned in one of my previous mails give a different rate of conversion). I think there is a mistake in your typing, or in your calculations, because the factor of conversion is 2.65-2.74 when you say " *For the International Dollar the factor in 2008 is generally reported as between 2.65 and 2.74 for the In Rs." *whereas then you further add "*$2 (under PPP) would therefore at worst be around Rs 35 (nominal rate Rs 48) and Rs 29.19 (nominal rate Rs 40).*" I think it's 12.65-12.74 you are talking about, please do reply, so that I can clarify. And from the figures you gave (the nos both outside brackets and also those mentioned as nominal rates), I dont' think there's any contradiction of those figures with that of the NCEUS report. By the way, since I gave the World Bank figures, I would also specify the rate of conversion in that fact I gave: Rs. 15 (rural areas): = $1.25 (PPP) then $1 (PPP) = Rs. 12 Rs. 21.6 (urban areas) = $1.25 (PPP) then $1 (PPP) = Rs. 17.28 I don't know which one to accept, but I take the lower limit as Rs. 12 for the moment. Just as clarification, can you also specify what are nominal rates and what are the nos. outside the brackets? Regards Rakesh P.S: I agree with you that World Bank gives data in PPP terms. But I also said that the PPP is itself in a controversy, as to whether it should be used or not. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Aug 16 22:12:12 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:42:12 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Nandan's Blog and UIDAI - 199 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908160942k56ba585ak5a86665816e02a26@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, Here's from the man himself. Please read the view presented by Mr. Nadan Nilekani on his appointment as chief of UIDAI. In addition to this I'd like to present two responses which Mr. Nadan Nilekani got for this blog post. Regards Taha 1. Jay Shetty Says: July 23rd, 2009 at 12:11 pm Sir, 30 to 40% of Indian use cell phone now, i think this will reach very close to 70% in couple of years time. There is much scope to link this unique id with cell phone number ( also mobile number portability is coming in effect)and keeping autority of allocating the mobile number with Govt will improve the security. Which will help to information sharing with common people. Now we have lot of voice based service in Telecommunication which will enable us to keep common man informed about his benefits from Govt and other messages which unique to him. They don’t even need to know to read and write to use this features. I also belive we should start the CHANGE from the schools, it is very easy to start your unique number allocation starting from the schools. We need to then extend it to banks and other organizations. Which will easy the implementation effort. Thx, Jay (I work as solution manager mobile commu.) 2. Anand Saraf Says: July 23rd, 2009 at 1:26 pm Dear Mr. Nilekani, I think it’s wonderful that the PM asked you - but even more fantastic that you accepted! I can only imagine the all the weighing of pros and cons to arrive at such a difficult decision. My two bits of suggestions for the UID project: We should first attack at the base so that no new data gets generated wrongly. In other words - at hospitals at the time of birth - make it mandatory that every child when born gets a Unique ID - in the birth certificate - like a Social Security Number in the US. Next attack the other end - people dying need a death certificate - make sure each such event gets logged into the UID - either tagged to someone already in the system or by creation of a new record in the system - print the UID in the Death certificate. This will at least get the new data correct - and then begins the onerous task of getting the existing population into the system. For existing data, a good way to quickly get off the ground would be to provide a self-service portal where people with existing ID (like a passport) can logon and self-register, provide proof-of-ID and submit an application. This will make it much easier than to do a data collection effort. The applications can be scrutinized against the other ID database (passport) and if okay - can be integrated into the UID. I think the NSDL model is a great approach for this. Of course that would take care of more urban than rural population - the primary political target for the UID. But there will be ways - for example take the Yashashwini database in Karnataka and you will get a good bunch of the population into the system with relatively “correct” info! All the best! Anand http://imaginingindia.com/2009/07/23/last-post/ Last post As you may have heard, I’ve been appointed as the Chairman of the Unique Identification Authority of India. I’m grateful for all your congratulations and best wishes. In my new role, I can no longer comment on government policy. So this means the end of this blog. The blogging format was new to me, and I greatly enjoyed writing here and listening to your thoughts these past few months. Many people have asked me why I accepted this appointment. I have long been a champion of a reform approach that is inclusive of the poor, and in my book, I described unique identity as one of the key steps for achieving this goal. Giving every individual in India a unique identification number can go a long way in enabling direct benefits, and fixing weak public delivery systems, giving the poor access to better healthcare, education, and welfare safety nets. When Prime Minister Manmohan Singh offered me the opportunity to head the UIDAI, I saw it as a chance to help enable ideas I have supported for a long time. Since the UIDAI aims to enable a people-centric approach to governance, I will approach the rollout of the initiative in the same way. I’ve been overwhelmed in the last few weeks by offers of assistance and help from Indians around the world. The UIDAI will be setting up a website soon, which will chart out ways for people to volunteer and engage with the project. I hope that together, we will be able to make this initiative an enormous success. From taraprakash at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 08:03:22 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 22:33:22 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed toprotect its religious minorities adequately References: <4eab87870908150341g586e4064sa3fa414618c7f674@mail.gmail.com><4eab87870908150400l2d427d12k959eb800707aa4e@mail.gmail.com><4eab87870908150424i1d9e5cc3s37bac0942c6c86c4@mail.gmail.com><4eab87870908150430n15733cd8o8d794011090b392c@mail.gmail.com><4eab87870908150452x5086e916r80e964c51fbfaa95@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <24ED65BB73E34F7CB50FF3F60C93F888@tara> "Burkina Faso, Gambia, Guinea, Mali, Senegal, Chad, Djibouti, Indonesia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgystan, Tajikstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Albania, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, Palestinian Authority and Turkey." Are these countries? or you just imagined them? On a more serious note, Turkey's case is interesting. There is a tussle going on between the army and intelectuals on one side and the current elected government on the other. The army wants to keep the country "secular" (perhaps a Turkish Islamic fanatic might use the term "sickular") The army has toppled governments in the past when it thought the government was not respecting the secular credentials of the country. Turkey, in fact, is much more "sickular" than India. The women cannot use a veil in the academic institutes. And, apparently for that reason many women are bereaved of education as their religion does not allow them to go to public places without a veil. Recently the elected government was trying to make a law allowing women to cover their faces in schools and colleges and the intelectuals/liberals in Turkey were quite offended by it. Such a law, they argued, violates Turkey's secular credentials. On the other hand, when France disallowed the use of any visible religious symbols on any person in the academic institutions, the French liberals did not like it. So we have 2 cases of secularism. If I am asked to choose between secularism of Turkey and secularism of France, I will choose the latter. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" To: "Jeebesh" Cc: "sarai list" Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 8:19 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed toprotect its religious minorities adequately > Murali, > > Jeebesh is right, except that Indonesia is the worlds largest (by > population) Muslim countriy. Not the second largest. And here is a > list of 19 other Muslim majority countries that are not Islamic > states, or do not have Islam listed as state religion. > > Burkina Faso, Gambia, Guinea, Mali, Senegal, Chad, Djibouti, > Indonesia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgystan, Tajikstan, Turkmenistan, > Uzbekistan, Albania, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, > Palestinian Authority and Turkey. > > There are several other countries, which recognize Islam as a state > religion, such as Egypt but are still not 'Islamic States', that is, > they are not governed by Islamic law > > Only a third category of states, which includes, Iran, Saudi Arabia, > Pakistan, Afghanistan etc, can be strictly called Islamic States, in > that they are partially or wholly governed by Islamic law and > recognize the Sharia as a source of law and jurisprudence. > > Please take the trouble to make credible and factual statements as > far as possible when you seek to impose your opinions on this list. > > Shuddha > > On 15-Aug-09, at 5:27 PM, Jeebesh wrote: > >> Indonesia? >> >> second largest muslim population in the world. not a islamic state. >> airlines is called Garuda airlines. >> >> Turkey? >> >> 90% muslim. Not an islamic state. >> >> On 15-Aug-09, at 5:22 PM, Murali V wrote: >> >>> If you look at all the countries that have a majority muslim >>> population, all of them have declared themselves as islamic states. >>> >>> Regards, >>> V Murali >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Rakesh Iyer >>> wrote: >>>> I am talking about Europe and USA, not Saudi Arabia. The You-tube >>>> link you >>>> gave was referring to these two entities, hence I wanted to know >>>> about the >>>> same. Are Muslims restricting the freedoms of individuals living >>>> there? If >>>> yes, why? Is it lack of public discussion or difference in value >>>> systems? >>>> What can be done in either case? Is the problem intrinsic to Islam? >>>> If no, >>>> then what is the case? If yes, then what can be done to change the >>>> nature of >>>> Islam? And if no solutions are possible (after exhausting all the >>>> possibilities), should we ban Islam? Should these nations ask >>>> Muslims to >>>> leave the nation so that the rest can leave peacefully with their >>>> rights >>>> secure? Should they be sent to settle in any other country (like >>>> Jews were >>>> settled in Israel)? What costs and benefits are involved in these >>>> arrangements? >>>> >>>> These are just some of the questions which need to be asked, before >>>> making >>>> any value-based judgements on these nations. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 17 10:12:20 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 21:42:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?Highlights_of_PM=E2=80=99s_Independence_D?= =?utf-8?q?ay_speech_-_198?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <632958.41281.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Rakesh, The only positive point in the current PM is his personal honesty and sincereness. This is what ,in my opinion got Congress more votes. Sometimes the Chair makes you do things, which you would not have done otherwise. Regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Sun, 8/16/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > From: Rakesh Iyer > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Highlights of PM’s Independence Day speech - 198 > To: "Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi" > Cc: "Sarai Reader-list" , "Jeebesh" > Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 4:44 PM > Hi (to all) > > I have some very basic questions regarding the PM's speech, > because there > seem to be interesting connections between what he said and > what his govt > has done (or ministers of his govt have done): > > 1) Firstly, the PM has warned hoarders and black marketers. > Probably he > forgot that since the past 3 years, food prices have been > increasing as like > never before. I read somewhere that 2004-2009 was the > period of highest > increase in food prices in history of independent India, > considering 2004 as > the base index to measure this increase.(Even assuming this > is not true) If > the PM knows that it's the hoarders who are the problem, > shouldn't he also > mention steps in and outside the Parliament, taken to stop > hoarding and > black-marketing.? (Of course, some economists attribute > high prices to high > MSP's of food crops in India, and some to the > non-procurement of pulses and > oilseeds by the FCI, thereby leaving it in private hands). > > Instead, all this while we have heard the ministers of the > govt say that the > prices will reduce with increase in supply or vice versa. > But only now has > Sharad Pawar acknowledged that the increase in prices has a > connection other > than that of good monsoon and drought. Will he try to find > this connection? > This is also critical considering the importance of the > Right to Food scheme > as well, which the UPA has announced in the Budget. > > 2) The govt keeps on talking about growth in agriculture. > But except for > increases in the allocations to agricultural sector in the > Budget, the govt > has done virtually nothing. Again, I remember having read > multiple no. of > times, including from that famous scientist, Mr. > Swaminathan, that we need > to invest in research in agriculture; just giving rural > credit at 4-5% is > not going to help, even if the reach of the public sector > banks were to be > ensured for the rural populace (to save them from the > money-lender's wrath). > > What is the govt thinking of therefore, by just increasing > allocations this > way? The strangest part is that the varieties which were > indigenous to India > are now being patented by multinational companies and > therefore our own > farmers, can't use varieties which were used since several > generations (talk > of loss of our heritage, comes to my mind here). And these > varieties were > patented due to their high productivity and better > resistance to pests. > > 3) The govt was actually asked to ensure universalization > of ICDS > (Integrated Child Development Scheme) by 2008, but it has > shifted that goal > to 2012. If the govt has so much amount to spend on defence > and corporate > subsidies, couldn't it have spent adequate amounts of money > on ICDS and > other schemes which are much beneficial for the poor. > (Recently, I read that > at least 50% of the population must be given BPL cards.* > And I correct one > more information which I used to give repeatedly on this > forum. 80% of > people in India don't spend more than Rs. 20 a day, as used > to my earlier > statement that 80% of people in India don't earn more than > Rs. 20 a day. I > apologize for the same.*) > > 4) The govt. has proposed to make cities slum free. Does > the govt know that > in slums like Dharavi, people in slums engage in activities > which ensure > they are categorized as self-employment? And by that I just > don't mean those > who repair cycles or those who repair electronics. That > also includes some > self-entrepreneurs who actually make commodities using > their own labor and > that of their families. There are many who get employment > locally in the > slums this way. > > If the houses were to be constructed, then where would > these people be able > to carry out their occupations? Already, there is no > extension of the NREGA > into the urban areas (probably due to fear of the > corporates). And when the > houses are built, they would have no place to actually > carry out their > occupational work. This would result in encroachment of > footpaths and other > public spaces, in due course of time, and further urban > mismanagement. All > this just to serve the purpose of real-estate sector giants > who will build > the houses with the govt paying for them. (and thereby also > relieve land in > the process for further construction purposes) > > Does the govt have an alternative plan to provide suitable > markets for these > people who will lose their livelihood this way? Or have the > ministers in the > govt sold themselves to the giants for money? > > 5) The PM says what others have said repeatedly, that > participation in > Assembly and Lok sabha elections indicates the support of > the Indian state > in the minds of people of J & K. But voting percentage > being higher need not > necessarily mean support of the Indian state, but could > simply mean support > of democracy as a method to rule, as also conducting > elections. Also, there > have been reports in the local media in that state of how > candidates were > given money to participate in elections and ensure a better > voting > percentage for elections. Has the PM even heard about them? > And what about > removing AFSPA? Or is that just separatist talk, and has > nothing to do with > democratic rights of the people? > > 6) The govt. talks about improving accountability under > NREGA. But from what > I know, the NREGA asks for a 'Grievance Redressal > Authority' to be built up > at State and National levels to ensure that complaints are > taken care of. It > is absent in almost all states of India. Why couldn't the > govt implement an > act which it had itself taken an initiative to get passed > in Parliament, in > its totality, is something I can't fathom. > > And recently, the govt has taken the initiative to ensure > that works for > small and marginal farmers' lands will be done under NREGA, > without having > discussed it either with those organizations who were > fighting for the > introduction of such an act for many years, nor with the > people who work in > these jobs in some measure (like some organizations). This > when such > organizations have been fighting tooth and nail against it, > stating that > such a recommendation would lead to non-transparency of > working of NREGA. > > The govt may also like to answer about the Telecom Scam, > the Rice Scam, the > criticism by CAG of the 'Admiral Gorshkov' deal, the high > costs involved in > the 'Arihant', the malnutrition rates of India, the > criticism of the Indian > Railways by the CAG for its various initiatives, the > working of the Surface > & Transport Ministry under the previous UPA govt, the > high MSP's (and their > effect on food prices) and of course, the deadly duo of > inflation and > terrorism. > > Regards > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 17 10:43:12 2009 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 22:13:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] a letter to Sarai admin Message-ID: <748406.60843.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Sarai readers, especially the admin We have discussed this a million times, but the habit of a few people to put the entire list (of 2000+ subscribers) on ransom by only discussing their favourite topics day-in and day-out doesn't seem to stop. I am not in favour of moderating or censorship (and I love freedom of speech), but those of us who post 40 emails a day should at least think about the excesses they are creating in the world. Sometime ago someone had suggested that each subscriber should be restricted to post a certain number of mails a day (maybe 2 or 4). Why can't we follow something like that. I wonder if the Sarai list has the technical options to automatically restrict people from posting in excess, but something needs to be done desperately. These days, whenever I have any conversations about Sarai among friends, everyone seems to have grown fed up with it - many are thinking of unsubscribing or already have. Simply deleting or ignoring the mails or applying filters is not enough. Because one usually is tempted to subject headers, and one opens the Sarai mails with a lot of expectation. But many a times, one gets disappointed to see a sort of personal chatting going on. Why are we doing this hara-kiri in the name of freedom of expression. Yousuf From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 17 10:51:04 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 22:21:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Uniform Civil Code Message-ID: <278759.79132.qm@web39107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Rakesh, I got a torn out cutting of 2004 from HT, some of the cases wherein Supreme Court of India advised the Govt of India to enact a Commom Civil Law made for going in for Uniform Civil Code: 1.Well known Shah Bano case directed Shah Bano's husband to pay alimony to his divorced wife.This was subsequently nullified by another enactment by the Govt under Muslim pressure. 2. Sarla Mudgal Case-Sarla's husband wanted to marry another lady but Sarla Mudgal was not prepared to give a divorce.The Husband straightway embraced Islam and married the desired lady(to avoid the penalty for polygamy under Hindu Marriage Law).The Court declared the marriage illegal. 3.A Muslim landlord who, to save his surplus land from the restrictions of the Land Ceiling Act, divorced his wife.The SC dismissed the talaq as fraudulent and legally void. 4.This case related to a Christian Priest in Kerala, who wanted to donate his ancestral property for a charitable cause even when the next of his kin was living-which was prohibited by the Christian Personal Law. Art 44 of the Constitution of India states" The State SHALL endeavour to secure for the citizens a uniform civil code throughout the territory of India." Mind the word used is "shall" and not "may". Article 44 comes under Directive Principles of State Policy and are not justiciable. It further says that Goa has a common civil law for all its citizens and has not dented the religious identities.Muslims in Goa have not ceased to be Muslims, the apprehension under which the Central Govt under pressure from the minority has not gone in for the Uniform Civil Code for the entire country. To the best of my knowledge, even in Muslim dominated country like Turkey Sharia is not followed. Regards, (A.K.MALIK) From murali.chalam at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 10:52:27 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:52:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] a letter to Sarai admin In-Reply-To: <748406.60843.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <748406.60843.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908162222k2c31e3d6s369eaa5bcafaa73e@mail.gmail.com> Some may not like this as it restricts the creativity so they say. Regards, V Murali On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Yousuf wrote: > Dear Sarai readers, especially the admin > We have discussed this a million times, but the habit of a few people to put the entire list (of 2000+ subscribers) on ransom by only discussing their favourite topics day-in and day-out doesn't seem to stop. I am not in favour of moderating or censorship (and I love freedom of speech), but those of us who post 40 emails a day should at least think about the excesses they are creating in the world. > > Sometime ago someone had suggested that each subscriber should be restricted to post a certain number of mails a day (maybe 2 or 4). Why can't we follow something like that. I wonder if the Sarai list has the technical options to automatically restrict people from posting in excess, but something needs to be done desperately. These days, whenever I have any conversations about Sarai among friends, everyone seems to have grown fed up with it - many are thinking of unsubscribing or already have. Simply deleting or ignoring the mails or applying filters is not enough. Because one usually is tempted to subject headers, and one opens the Sarai mails with a lot of expectation. But many a times, one gets disappointed to see a sort of personal chatting going on. > > Why are we doing this hara-kiri in the name of freedom of expression. > > Yousuf > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From thungas at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 11:08:20 2009 From: thungas at gmail.com (Srikanth Thunga) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:08:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] a letter to Sarai admin In-Reply-To: <748406.60843.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <748406.60843.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I completely agree with Yousuf. I have a suggestion. Move sarai to ning network or something similar. I am a member of open anthropology group on ning and I have found it to be very versatile which makes a lot more sense. Please check http://openanthcoop.ning.com/ I have a little bit of experience on ning & I can help the owner to pilot it/test it etc... Keith Hart, who was the creator of OAC on ning is aware of this group I got enticed to join this only on suggestion of Arvind and Keith Hart on OAC. In my opinion, sarai still seems to be on decade old technologies of mailing lists when internet has improved to a much mature platform. I had mailed the owner once a while ago, but never got a response. I wanted to suggest a more mature platform to the owner as I was overwhelmed by the number of emails I get everyday on this mailing list. I am still not used to reading all emails on sarai and there are no alternate ways of looking at the information. I happened to read this email also by chance only. Regards, -Srikanth On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Yousuf wrote: > Dear Sarai readers, especially the admin > We have discussed this a million times, but the habit of a few people to > put the entire list (of 2000+ subscribers) on ransom by only discussing > their favourite topics day-in and day-out doesn't seem to stop. I am not in > favour of moderating or censorship (and I love freedom of speech), but those > of us who post 40 emails a day should at least think about the excesses they > are creating in the world. > > Sometime ago someone had suggested that each subscriber should be > restricted to post a certain number of mails a day (maybe 2 or 4). Why can't > we follow something like that. I wonder if the Sarai list has the technical > options to automatically restrict people from posting in excess, but > something needs to be done desperately. These days, whenever I have any > conversations about Sarai among friends, everyone seems to have grown fed up > with it - many are thinking of unsubscribing or already have. Simply > deleting or ignoring the mails or applying filters is not enough. Because > one usually is tempted to subject headers, and one opens the Sarai mails > with a lot of expectation. But many a times, one gets disappointed to see a > sort of personal chatting going on. > > Why are we doing this hara-kiri in the name of freedom of expression. > > Yousuf > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 17 11:16:09 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 22:46:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <164430.1919.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Rakesh, A little correction please.It was not the triple talaq to Shah Bano which was under dispute but maintenance to a divorced woman under Sec 125 CrPC . The Supreme Court, disregarding what the Muslim Personal Law provides,directed her husband to pay alimony to his divorced wife.But this decision of the SC was made a nullity by enactment of a law by Rajiv Gandhi govt.under pressure from Muslim community. Regards, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Sat, 8/15/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > From: Rakesh Iyer > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately > To: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" > Cc: "sarai list" , "Jeebesh" > Date: Saturday, August 15, 2009, 6:15 PM > Dear Shuddha,Murali and all > > There is one more country which is not mentioned in that > list. The country > which celebrates its' 62nd independence day, today, on 15th > August 2009, > whose first PM had spoken of 'Tryst with destiny' on 15th > August 1947, and > which has the third largest no. of Muslims in the world > (after Indonesia and > Pakistan). > > It's not an Islamic state (and the SC in legality did > overrule the Hadith > and the Sharia by not allowing the triple talaq in the case > of Shah Bano) > > Please do remember this country, even though it's not a > Muslim majority > country, because of the no. of Muslims living in it in > sheer nos. > > Regards > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From vivek at sarai.net Mon Aug 17 11:19:04 2009 From: vivek at sarai.net (Vivek Narayanan) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:19:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Eliot Weinberger at the LRB In-Reply-To: <132279.98317.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <132279.98317.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A88EF50.2030800@sarai.net> I should mention that the source for this link was Eliot Weinberger's post, "Agog", at the LRB: http://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/author/eliot-weinberger/ Weinberger is a very astute commentator and he has been writing some hilarious and cutting posts, including on the current mainstreaming of Islamophobia. Here below are two: ********** http://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2009/08/04/eliot-weinberger/muslim-shark-alert/ Muslim Shark Alert! 4 August 2009 Eliot Weinberger Tags: america, islamophobia, obama, reviews It’s been a slow summer for shark attacks in Florida, so American cable TV news has had to content itself by filling its hours with the ‘birther’ movement, which is less organic than it sounds: the belief that Barack Obama was not born in the USA, and is therefore ineligible to serve as president. Despite some evidence to the contrary – such as a birth certificate validated by the Republican governor of Hawaii and its Department of Health, as well as birth announcements in two Honolulu newspapers – the birthers have managed, according to the latest poll, to convince a majority of Republicans that Obama is as foreign as his name, and part of some Kenyan (or something) conspiracy to turn the White House red. Meanwhile, the New York Times is strangely preoccupied with a more metaphorical conjunction of sharks and foreign takeover: the scary Muslims now lurking by the canals and lakes of placid Old Europe. In the last week alone, Stephen Pollard’s review of the ‘unquestionably correct’ Bruce Bawer (the subject of a previous blog) was followed by a tribute to Christopher Caldwell’s Reflections on the Revolution in Europe: Immigration, Islam and the West by daily reviewer Dwight Garner, which in turn led to a front-page review of the Caldwell book in the Sunday Book Review by Fouad Ajami, Dick Cheney’s favorite Muslim. (Ajami was the one who predicted that the streets of Baghdad would ‘erupt in joy’ at the arrival of the American troops, and whose book on the Iraq war has the priceless title The Foreigner’s Gift.) Garner, normally a literary critic with eclectic interests, finds ‘lucidity and intellectual grace and even wit’ in Caldwell’s ‘well-researched, fervently argued and morally serious book’. As an example, he cites this dizzying sentence: The Islamic world is an economic and intellectual basket case, the part of the potentially civilised world most left behind by progress. It is difficult to know what Caldwell means by ‘the part of the potentially civilised world’. Is the whole world either civilised or potentially civilised; or is the world divided in three: the civilised, the potentially civilised and the never-will-be-civilised? Whatever ‘civilised’ and ‘progress’ mean, the former is absurd (many Islamic nations are more developed than other countries); the latter carries colonial disdain to an extreme. It is equally difficult to see how the phrase ‘economic basket case’ applies to Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States, unless it refers to their notoriously overflowing shopping baskets. As for the intellectual poverty of the ‘Islamic world’, one can only begin to make the basket case if one excludes the cafés and publishing houses of Cairo and Beirut and Karachi and Delhi, the Iranian cinema, the countless Muslim intellectuals in the West, the art scene in Dubai, and on and on. (A few months ago, in the space of two weeks, I visited the Tunis Book Fair, which was packed with around 100,000 visitors, and the similarly sized BookExpo in New York, whose aisles were largely empty.) Garner uncritically repeats the claim that Muslims are ‘swamping Europe demographically’ and multiplying like bunnies. A few minutes research would have revealed that there are two sets of population statistics: those of the Islamophobes and those of everyone else. Bruce Bawer states that 20 per cent of Switzerland is now Muslim; everyone else says it’s 4 per cent. (No doubt he has mistaken yodelling for ululation.) The general consensus is that Muslims now make up merely 3.6 per cent of the population of Western Europe, and the fertility rate of European Muslims is a fraction of 1 per cent higher than that of Christians. Allowing that second and third and fourth generations of immigrants tend to be better educated and have higher incomes, and thus have less children, and that intermarriage is common, it doesn’t seem likely there will be ever be a muzzein at the top of the Eiffel Tower, let alone, as the I-phobes warn, Sharia law in Denmark and Britain. But dull statistics, alas, cannot compete with an ‘Invasion of the Body Snatchers’ scenario. For his contribution, Fouad Ajami mainly gargles a few thousand words, without saying much of anything at all. He does, however, go on autopilot for the requisite references to the expulsion of the Moors from Spain, the Madrid bombings, the London bombings, the inevitable Danish cartoons, burqas on the streets of Paris, the buzzword ‘Eurabia’ and that perennial bogeyman, the ‘Islamofascist’ Sayyid Qutb. What matters is not the content of the review, but its placement at the front of the Book Review. Every summer, in the middle of shark fever, there’s always some killjoy marine biologist who points out that sharks almost never kill anyone without provocation, and are generally getting a bum rap. So perhaps it’s worth stating the obvious: the rhetoric and the specific fearmongering details of the Islamophobes are identical to those used against the Jews in Europe in the 1920s and 1930s, and in the United States against every large immigrant group – Irish, Italians, Poles, Jews, Chinese – since the 1880s. Most of these dire warnings issued from scholars with impeccable credentials. It’s a good habit nowadays to replace the words ‘Muslim’, ‘Islam’, ‘radical Islam’ etc. with the words ‘the Jews’. Bawer’s book, for example, then becomes: While Europe Slept: How the Jews Are Destroying the West from Within – a not unfamiliar sentiment in the 20th century. And isn’t it time we had a similar survey of the ‘Christian world’? It could begin, like Caldwell, in 1492: the Inquisition! Instead of the London bombings, Oklahoma City; instead of a poor imitation, Sayyid Qutb, we could have the real thing, Hitler; instead of Theo van Gogh, the murder of Dr George Tiller last May; instead of a few wacko imams in storefront mosques, there’s no end of much more visible television evangelists and Fox News pundits deranged by intolerance. And, of course, a wide geographical selection of current economic and intellectual backwaters with their paramilitary groups, gay-bashers, book-banners, misogynists, racists, anti-Semites, bomb-builders, child-molesting priests and science-deniers. Moreover, it is rather well known that the Christian world has been dedicated to global domination, mass conversion and holy war against the infidels ever since their founder said: Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. I am come to send fire on the earth… Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division. And instructed his followers: He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. ************* http://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2009/07/28/eliot-weinberger/unquestionable-political-correctness/ Unquestionable Political Correctness 28 July 2009 Eliot Weinberger Tags: islamophobia, media, politics, reviews The New York Times Book Review prides itself on its objectivity: no known lovers or sworn enemies are allowed to review each other. In actual practice, this means that the author of a novel about getting divorced in Pennsylvania will extravagantly praise the author of a novel about getting divorced in Connecticut. A political ‘moderate’ will air and then dismiss the ideas in a book by a left-winger; a right-winger will express some mild reservations about an ultra-right-winger; and a left-winger will only be asked to review something without contemporary content (e.g. a feminist on the biography of a suffragette). Edited by Sam Tanenhaus (biographer of Whittaker Chambers and, in progress, William F. Buckley), the NYTBR is predictably softcore right-of-centre. So it was something of a surprise that they assigned noted anti-Muslim hatemonger Stephen Pollard to review the latest book – Surrender: Appeasing Islam, Sacrificing Freedom – by noted anti-Muslim hatemonger Bruce Bawer. (In 2006, Bawer published While Europe Slept: How Radical Islam is Destroying the West from Within, which may help explain why Western Civilisation now lies in ruins.) Pollard’s review begins: There is no more important issue facing the West than Islamism, Islamofascism or — to use yet another label — radical Islam. Indeed. As apparently more threatening than global warming, nuclear proliferation or the recession, Pollard cites Tariq Ramadan, the reaction to the Danish cartoons and Ken Livingstone’s conference invitation to Yusuf al-Qaradawi. (In a happier bit of news, however, Pollard implies that it was that single sinister encounter that led an alarmed London to throw Livingstone out.) Further promoting Bawer’s book, the Times includes an excerpt on its website: The pernicious doctrine of multiculturalism, which teaches free people to belittle their own liberties while bending their knees to tyrants, and which, as we shall see, has proven to be so useful to the new brand of cultural jihadists that it might have been invented by Osama bin Laden himself. (One imagines the scene in a cave somewhere in the mountain fastnesses of Afghanistan: ‘Zawahiri, my friend, I’ve got it! We will destroy the Great Satan with a single word: diversity!’) Pollard’s review ends: Bawer is unquestionably correct, and that fact is quite simply terrifying. It’s true. One quite simply longs for the days when things were unquestionably correct, when Joseph Stalin could write: Is Lenin’s thesis that the dictatorship of the proletariat is the ‘root content of the proletarian revolution’ correct? It is unquestionably correct. Or when the 1969 Draft Constitution of the Chinese Communist Party could state: It is unquestionably correct that on a general historical scale imperialism is heading towards total collapse while Socialism is heading towards worldwide victory. Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > The article "AND HE SHALL BE JUDGED" by Robert Draper accompanying the > slideshow http://men.style.com/gq/features/topsecret > is at http://men.style.com/gq/features/landing?id=content_9217 > > --- On *Fri, 8/14/09, Vivek Narayanan //* wrote: > > From: Vivek Narayanan > Subject: [Reader-list] Onward Christian Soldiers > To: "sarai list" > Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 8:48 AM > Utterly terrifying, but at least now we know for sure that Bush was no > pseudo-secularist: > http://men.style.com/gq/features/topsecret > > From pkray11 at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 11:21:40 2009 From: pkray11 at gmail.com (prakash ray) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:21:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] a letter to Sarai admin Message-ID: <98f331e00908162251x461570e2he97b8b5cced723ab@mail.gmail.com> I completely endorse Yousuf's suggestions and share his concerns. Prakash www.cinemela.youthv.com http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=118193556385&ref=ts From murali.chalam at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 12:12:46 2009 From: murali.chalam at gmail.com (Murali V) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 12:12:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <164430.1919.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <164430.1919.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4eab87870908162342g77e2db07rf10a9ae411df8ada@mail.gmail.com> A -piece-ment for Vote bank!!! On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 11:16 AM, A.K. Malik wrote: > Hi Rakesh, >           A little correction please.It was not the triple talaq to Shah Bano which was under dispute but maintenance to a divorced woman under Sec 125 CrPC . The Supreme Court, disregarding what the Muslim Personal Law provides,directed her husband to pay alimony to his divorced wife.But this decision of the SC was made a nullity by enactment of a law by Rajiv Gandhi govt.under pressure from Muslim community. > Regards, > > (A.K.MALIK) > > > --- On Sat, 8/15/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > >> From: Rakesh Iyer >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately >> To: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" >> Cc: "sarai list" , "Jeebesh" >> Date: Saturday, August 15, 2009, 6:15 PM >> Dear Shuddha,Murali and all >> >> There is one more country which is not mentioned in that >> list. The country >> which celebrates its' 62nd independence day, today, on 15th >> August 2009, >> whose first PM had spoken of 'Tryst with destiny' on 15th >> August 1947, and >> which has the third largest no. of Muslims in the world >> (after Indonesia and >> Pakistan). >> >> It's not an Islamic state (and the SC in legality did >> overrule the Hadith >> and the Sharia by not allowing the triple talaq in the case >> of Shah Bano) >> >> Please do remember this country, even though it's not a >> Muslim majority >> country, because of the no. of Muslims living in it in >> sheer nos. >> >> Regards >> >> Rakesh >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >> city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >> with subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From jeebesh at sarai.net Mon Aug 17 12:44:02 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 12:44:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: <4eab87870908162342g77e2db07rf10a9ae411df8ada@mail.gmail.com> References: <164430.1919.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908162342g77e2db07rf10a9ae411df8ada@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <177F64CB-0CAF-4AFF-903A-F68778F7D7BB@sarai.net> dear Murali, You make a mistake. This was the decision by the government in power then that gave rise to BJP. It was from here that BJP found it itself again relevant after the disaster showing in 1984 election and made stronger claim to power over the next decade. Events moves in directions that are not anticipated at it's origin. warmly jeebesh On 17-Aug-09, at 12:12 PM, Murali V wrote: > A -piece-ment for Vote bank!!! > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 11:16 AM, A.K. Malik > wrote: >> Hi Rakesh, >> A little correction please.It was not the triple talaq to >> Shah Bano which was under dispute but maintenance to a divorced >> woman under Sec 125 CrPC . The Supreme Court, disregarding what the >> Muslim Personal Law provides,directed her husband to pay alimony to >> his divorced wife.But this decision of the SC was made a nullity by >> enactment of a law by Rajiv Gandhi govt.under pressure from Muslim >> community. >> Regards, >> >> (A.K.MALIK) >> >> >> --- On Sat, 8/15/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: >> >>> From: Rakesh Iyer >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have >>> failed to protect its religious minorities adequately >>> To: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" >>> Cc: "sarai list" , "Jeebesh" >> > >>> Date: Saturday, August 15, 2009, 6:15 PM >>> Dear Shuddha,Murali and all >>> >>> There is one more country which is not mentioned in that >>> list. The country >>> which celebrates its' 62nd independence day, today, on 15th >>> August 2009, >>> whose first PM had spoken of 'Tryst with destiny' on 15th >>> August 1947, and >>> which has the third largest no. of Muslims in the world >>> (after Indonesia and >>> Pakistan). >>> >>> It's not an Islamic state (and the SC in legality did >>> overrule the Hadith >>> and the Sharia by not allowing the triple talaq in the case >>> of Shah Bano) >>> >>> Please do remember this country, even though it's not a >>> Muslim majority >>> country, because of the no. of Muslims living in it in >>> sheer nos. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Rakesh >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >>> city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>> with subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Tue Aug 11 11:06:24 2009 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (artNET) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:36:24 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BAnnouncements=5D_Call=3A_films_?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=26_videos_for_CologneOFF__-_5th_festival_edition?= Message-ID: <20090811073624.452195B2.F070387F@192.168.0.3> Call for entries: Deadline: Tuesday, 1 September 2009 --------------------------- CologneOFF V - 5th edition of Cologne Online Film Festival http://coff.newmediafest.org is planned to be launched in November 2009 under the festival themes 1. Taboo 2. Violence ---------------------------------------------------- Entry ---------------------------------------------------- VideoChannel - video project environments http://videochannel.newmediafest.org invites artists and directors for submitting videos/films, i.e. narratives and documentations (max 15 min.) experimenting with new concepts of transforming artistic contents into moving images, new forms of representing und new technologies Deadline: 1 September 2009 No entry fee! All entry details and the submission form can be found on netEX - networked experience http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1030 ---------------------------------------------------- About CologneOFF ---------------------------------------------------- CologneOFF - Cologne Online Film Festival http://coff.newmediafest.org , founded in 2006 as a new type of mobile film & video festival taking place simultaneously online and physical space in cooperation with partner festivals, is directed by Wilfried Agricola de Cologne The first 4 festival editions CologneOFF I - "Identityscapes" - 2006 CologneOFF II - "Image vs Music" - 2006 CologneOFF III - "Toon! Toon! - art cartoons and animates narriatives" - 2007 Cologne IV - "Here We Are" - 2008 were presented between 2006 and 2009 in cooperation with festivals in India, The Netherlands Venezuela, Argentina, France Serbia, Spain, Poland, Belgium, Turkey, Greece, Mexico, Bosnia-Hercegovia, Indonesia and others More info on http://coff.newmediafest.org ------------------------------------------- This call is released by netEX - networked experience http://netex.nmartproject.net . info (at) nmartproject.net ------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Fri Aug 14 13:40:59 2009 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (vCh) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:10:59 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BAnnouncements=5D_OMFC_-_One_Minut?= =?iso-8859-1?q?e_Film_Collection?= Message-ID: <20090814101059.911DA446.7880D163@192.168.0.3> VideoChannel - video project environments - http://videochannel.newmediafest.org launched in August 2009 another highlight online --> OMFC (One Minute Film Collection) is an ongoing project initiative chief curated by Wilfried Agricola de Cologne featuring at its start 67 films and videos with a duration of exactly one minute ---> http://videochannel.newmediafest.org/blog/?page_id=242 VideoChannel is welcoming Ali Zaidi (motiroti, London(UK)) as a guest curator selecting 14 films by directors from UK, India & Pakistan. --> http://videochannel.newmediafest.org/blog/?page_id=507 Monika Dutta (UK), Shobna Gulati (UK), Hetain Patel (UK), Nikesh Shukla (UK) Ali Zaid (UK) , Nitin Das (India), Skanya Ghosh (India), Vishrajuti Ghosh (India) Nila Madhab Panda (India), Abhilash V. (India), Shazieh Gorji (Pakistan), Roshaan Khattak (Pakistan), Syed Ali Nasir (Pakistan), Sehban Zaidi (Pakistan) The other thematic sections are Family & Friends --> http://videochannel.newmediafest.org/blog/?page_id=517 Sonja Vuk (CR), Antti Savela (SWE), Wolf Nkole Helzle (Ger) Katherine Sweetman (USA) , Grace Graupe-Pillard (USA) Luisa Mizzoni (IT), Adrian Zalewski (Poland), Yin-Ling Chen (Taiwan) Harad Rettich (Ger), Fumiko Matsuyama (Japan), Junho Oh (South Korea) Difference --> http://videochannel.newmediafest.org/blog/?page_id=533 Lukas Mateijka (SK), Kriss Salmanis (Latvia), Lin Fangsuo (China), István Rusvai (Hungary), Antonio Alvarado (Spain), Karl Mendonca (USA) Veena Shekar (India), Tanja Koljonen & Joe Candido (Finland) Louis Hubert (France), Erik Peterson (USA), Suzon Fuks (AUS) Mysteries ---> http://videochannel.newmediafest.org/blog/?page_id=537 Mores McWreath (USA), Toni Mestrovic (Croatia), Yoko Taketani (Japan) Agricola de Cologne (GER), Antony Rousseau (FR), Sreedeep (India), Sean Burn (UK), Roderick Coover & Nick Montfort (USA) Sahra Bhimji (USA), Pierre-Laurent Cassière (France), Kika Nicolela (Brazil), Past, Present & Future --> http://videochannel.newmediafest.org/blog/?page_id=551 Kaspars Groshevs (Latvia), Hermes Mangialardo (Italy, Henry Gwiazda (USA) Lemeh42 (Italy), Mads Ljungdahl (Denmark), Paolo Bonfiglio (Italy) Harriet Macdonald (UK), Arthur Tuoto (Brazil) Victoria S. Weible (USA), Péter Vadócz (Hungary) A Matter of Time --> http://videochannel.newmediafest.org/blog/?page_id=556 Johanna Reich (Germany), Anders Weberg (SWE), Ron Diorio (USA), Bill Domonkos (USA), Xenia Vargova (Bulgaria), Alison Williams (RSA) Walter Van Rijn (UK), Nicole Rademacher (USA) Baptist Coelho (India), Milica Rakic (Serbia) More info can be found on ---> http://videochannel.newmediafest.org/blog/?p=597 ------------------------------------------- CologneOFF, VideoChannel , VIP - VideoChannel Interview Project and VAD - Video Art Database are dedicated to art forms of film and video in the framework of [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne http://www.nmartproject.net - the experimental platform for art & new media from Cologne/Germany . info [at] nmartproject.net ------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Fri Aug 14 17:08:16 2009 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (soundNET) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:38:16 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BAnnouncements=5D_Call=3A_soundart?= =?iso-8859-1?q?_for_SoundLAB_VII?= Message-ID: <20090814133816.C8CA0344.57C9A459@192.168.0.3> Call for entries Deadline: 30 November 2009 2010 - 10th anniversary of [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne SoundLAB - sonic art project environments is happy to launch the call for its next edition to be part of this anniversary celebrations, entitled: SoundLAB VII - soundCELEBRATION sound compositions made for the 10th anniversary! For its 7th edition, planned to be launched in March 2010, SoundLAB would like to celebrate the power of sound as a tool for artistic creations and communications on occasion of the 10th anniversary of the global network it is embedded in and invites soundartists, musicians and composers to create for the 10th anniversary a special sound composition. Please find detailed information, the regulations and entry form on http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=1423 ------------------------------------------------ SoundLAB - sonic art project environments http://soundlab.newmediafest.org is a corporate part of [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne, the experimental platform for art and new media from Cologne/Germany http://www.nmartproject.net in(at)nmartproject.net ----------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From nc-agricowi at netcologne.de Thu Aug 13 13:21:36 2009 From: nc-agricowi at netcologne.de (netEX) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:51:36 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BAnnouncements=5D_Call=3A_2010_-_T?= =?iso-8859-1?q?he_Best_of_Flash_on_the_Net?= Message-ID: <20090813095137.C78A7307.21445F28@192.168.0.3> extended deadline: 30 September 2009 --------------------------------------- 2010 - 10th anniversary of [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne Cinematheque - streaming media project environments http://cinema.nmartproject.net Call for entries \\ Flash & Thunder Flash as a medium and tool for artistic creations // Since the Internet became popular in the late 90'ies of 20th century, the software program "FLASH", once developed and prepared for the commercial market by Macromedia, and now owned by Adobe, represents a vector based developing environment which enables the creator to combine different media and develop vector based animations especially for the Internet. .swf data file extension became a standard for animations online and offline, and Flash video and its .flv file format stands for "videostreaming" on the net. As soon as the Internet started, artists captured it for artistic purposes, and the same is good for certain software used for the net, particularly Flash is predestined for developing artistic creations due to its intuitive use. It became one of the most popular software tools for the net, computer based animations and interactive applications like games. Flash based artworks entered media festivals, even festivals solely based on movies created in Flash are organised. After Cinematheque - streaming media environments - explored in 2007 the capabilities of "Quicktime" as an artistic medium in the comprehensive show \\Slowtime? Quicktime as an artistic medium// - its now the time to explore in 2009/2010 the artistic potential of Flash in its own way in a big online show, as well. // Flash and Thunder Flash as a medium and tool for artistic creations \\ Cinematheque is looking for the best artistic Flash works created since 2000. Please find the regulations and entry form on http://www.nmartproject.net/netex/?p=408 /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Cinematheque - streaming media project environments http://cinema.nmartproject.net is a corporate part of [NewMediaArtProjectNetwork]:||cologne http://www.nmartproject.net - the experimental platform for art and new media from Cologne/Germany ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////// _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From prabhatkumar250 at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 14:56:20 2009 From: prabhatkumar250 at gmail.com (prabhat kumar) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:26:20 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: FW: Stip: 6 Research Fellowships "Humanities" (Univ. Sofia) In-Reply-To: <007301ca1f16$6eafb170$4c0f1450$@de> References: <007301ca1f16$6eafb170$4c0f1450$@de> Message-ID: <418f44e20908170226h3895fff6v8f4c5fc5aecaf3dc@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Martin Gieselmann Date: 2009/8/17 Subject: FW: Stip: 6 Research Fellowships "Humanities" (Univ. Sofia) To: gpts-all at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de Fyi, mg -----Original Message----- From: H-NET Liste fuer Sozial- und Kulturgeschichte [mailto:H-SOZ-U-KULT at H-NET.MSU.EDU] On Behalf Of HSK (Thomas Meyer) Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 6:12 PM To: H-SOZ-U-KULT at H-NET.MSU.EDU Subject: Stip: 6 Research Fellowships "Humanities" (Univ. Sofia) From: Maria Baramova Date: 04.08.2009 Subject: Stip: 6 Research Fellowships "Humanities" (Univ. Sofia) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sofia University, Sofia, 01.11.2009 Bewerbungsschluss: 20.09.2009 Grant competition for 6 (six) fellowships for young researchers for up-to 16 weeks in Bulgaria (four months) in the field of the Humanities (History, Archeology, Ethnology, Political Science, Law, Philosophy, Sociology, Cultural Studies, Economy and Management, Public Administration, Journalism, International Relations, European, Balkan and other regional studies, Classical, West European and Slavic Language and Literary Studies, Documental and Archival Studies, etc.). Hereby, the Centre of Excellence Dialogue Europe (Institute for Doctoral and Postdoctoral Studies) at Sofia University announces a call for applications for 6 (six) fellowships for young foreign researchers. In order to be eligible, the applicant should be younger than 35 years of age, possess at least an M.A. degree and be either working at a foreign university/research center or be studying for a Ph.D. degree. The research proposals should be interdisciplinary in its thematic approach focusing on the broad framework of European studies: the dialogue about and between the institutions of the EU, the harmonization of the social environment, the European dimensions of the global economic environment, the balance between national and supranational institutions, EU Law, the formulation of common European policies, cultural trends and European identities, the European educational space, intercultural communication media, transatlantic relations in the geopolitics of the 21st century etc. The grant is for a period of up-to 16 (sixteen) weeks for research work in Sofia as fellows of the Institute. The grant will amount to no more than 9 (nine) thousand BGN (approx. 4400 Euros) i.e. 560 BGN per week. All grantees will be affiliated to one of the working groups of the Institute and can count on the expert advice of its permanent fellows. While in residence in Sofia, all fellows will be included in the current events of the Institute and thus get a chance for participation in its public presentations, lectures, talks, seminars and conferences. Further the Institute will provide help in finding accommodation at a reasonable price at a student hostel. At the end of the fellowship all grantees are expected to submit a research paper with the results of their work and any type of articles or papers that can be published in the Institute's publications. Applications should include the following documents: - a curriculum vitae; - a list of publications (if available); - a brief description of the proposed research topic with a detailed working plan and schedule for the intended stay at the Institute (5-6 pages, up to 1.500 words); - the name and contact details of an external academic expert; - contact person / institution in Sofia; Applications are to be sent via email: office at dialogueeurope.org until September 20th 2009. The successful applicants must start their fellowship in the period: November 1-30th 2009 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Assoc. Prof. Dr. Kostadin Grozev Director of Centre of Excellence "Dialogue Europe" kgrozev at dialogueeurope.org Homepage URL zur Zitation dieses Beitrages _________________________________________________ HUMANITIES - SOZIAL- UND KULTURGESCHICHTE H-SOZ-U-KULT at H-NET.MSU.EDU Redaktion: E-Mail: hsk.redaktion at geschichte.hu-berlin.de WWW: http://hsozkult.geschichte.hu-berlin.de _________________________________________________ -- Prabhat Kumar PhD student (Department of History, SAI, University of Heidelberg) Address Cluster of Excellence, Karl Jaspers Centre University of Heidelberg, Room No. 118, Voßstraße 2, Building No. 4400 69115 Heidelberg Germany kumar at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de Mobile: +49 176 850 500 77 Office: +49 6221 54 4306 Fax: +49 6221 54 4012 http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/research/areas/b/projects/b1-gauging-cultural-asymmetries/prabhat-kumar From prabhatkumar250 at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 14:58:44 2009 From: prabhatkumar250 at gmail.com (prabhat kumar) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:28:44 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: FW: Stip: Fellowships "Dynamics in the History of Religions between Asia and Europe" (Univ. Bochum) In-Reply-To: <000901ca1f13$8c33dfd0$a49b9f70$@de> References: <000901ca1f13$8c33dfd0$a49b9f70$@de> Message-ID: <418f44e20908170228r42396edcv10b309a73ba6bf31@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Martin Gieselmann Date: 2009/8/17 Subject: FW: Stip: Fellowships "Dynamics in the History of Religions between Asia and Europe" (Univ. Bochum) To: gpts-all at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de Fyi, mfg, Martin -----Original Message----- From: H-NET Liste fuer Sozial- und Kulturgeschichte [mailto:H-SOZ-U-KULT at H-NET.MSU.EDU] On Behalf Of HSK (Thomas Meyer) Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 7:08 PM To: H-SOZ-U-KULT at H-NET.MSU.EDU Subject: Stip: Fellowships "Dynamics in the History of Religions between Asia and Europe" (Univ. Bochum) From: Marion Steinicke Date: 03.08.2009 Subject: Stip: Fellowships "Dynamics in the History of Religions between Asia and Europe" (Univ. Bochum) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ IKGF "Dynamiken der Religionsgeschichte zwischen Asien und Europa", Ruhr-Universität Bochum, 01.04.2010-31.03.2011 Bewerbungsschluss: 16.10.2009 The International Research Consortium on “Dynamics in the History of Religions between Asia and Europe” at Ruhr University Bochum, Germany, invites applications for *1.) Fellowships for Research in Philosophy of Religion* during the academic year April 2010 to March 2011. What we can offer: - Time and space for research in an interdisciplinary environment; - up to 70,000 EUR (gross rate) either as a grant or as a salary for the fellow’s substitute at his or her home institution; - good infrastructure (libraries etc.); - free lodging in a single apartment; - travel expenses related to research activities; -means for organizing congresses or workshops. What we would expect: - Research on the philosophy of religion with regard to intercultural diachronic and synchronic comparison. Specialization on pragmatism and semiotics is desired; - your presence during the fellowship term; - committed participation in the consortium's activities; -substantial research results in form of publications. Applicants must at least hold a Ph.D. The Ruhr University Bochum is an equal opportunity employer and encourages women and members of minorities to apply. *2.) Fellowships for Research in the History of Christianity/ European History of Religion* during the academic year April 2010 to March 2011. What we can offer: - Time and space for research in an interdisciplinary environment; - up to 70,000 EUR (gross rate) either as a grant or as a salary for the fellow's substitute at his or her home institution; - good infrastructure (libraries etc.); - free lodging in a single apartment; - travel expenses related to research activities; - means for organizing congresses or workshops. What we would expect: - Research on the History of Christianity/ European History of Religion, with special regard to inter-religious contact; - your presence during the fellowship term; - committed participation in the consortium's activities; - substantial research results in form of publications. Applicants must at least hold a Ph.D. The Ruhr University Bochum is an equal opportunity employer and encourages women and members of minorities to apply. *3.) Fellowships for Research in Basic Religious Notions in Islam* during the academic year April 2010 to March 2011. What we can offer: - Time and space for research in an interdisciplinary environment; - up to 70,000 EUR (gross rate) either as a grant or as a salary for the fellow's substitute at his or her home institution; - good infrastructure (libraries etc.); - free lodging in a single apartment; - travel expenses related to research activities; - means for organizing congresses or workshops. What we would expect: - Research on basic religious notions in Islam - with special regard to interreligious contact; - your presence during the fellowship term; - committed participation in the consortium's activities; - substantial research results in form of publications. Applicants must at least hold a Ph.D. The Ruhr University Bochum is an equal opportunity employer and encourages women and members of minorities to apply. _All applications:_ Interested applicants should send a letter of interest, a current CV including a list of publications, and an exposé of the intended research of about 5-10 pages. Application materials can be submitted by mail or e-mail. Please send your application before October 16th, 2009 to the International Research Consortium "Dynamics in the History of Religions between Asia and Europe" Ruhr-Universität Bochum Research Management: Dr. Marion Steinicke SH 1/ 189 Universitätsstr. 150 D-44780 Bochum, Germany ikgf-fellows at ruhr-uni-bochum.de For further information about the program of the research consortium on "Dynamics in the History of Religions" see www.ikgf-religions.de. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dr. Marion Steinicke IKGF "Dynamiken der Religionsgeschichte", SH 1/ 189, Ruhr-Universität Bochum Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum ikgf-fellows at ruhr-uni-bochum.de Homepage URL zur Zitation dieses Beitrages _________________________________________________ HUMANITIES - SOZIAL- UND KULTURGESCHICHTE H-SOZ-U-KULT at H-NET.MSU.EDU Redaktion: E-Mail: hsk.redaktion at geschichte.hu-berlin.de WWW: http://hsozkult.geschichte.hu-berlin.de _________________________________________________ -- Prabhat Kumar PhD student (Department of History, SAI, University of Heidelberg) Address Cluster of Excellence, Karl Jaspers Centre University of Heidelberg, Room No. 118, Voßstraße 2, Building No. 4400 69115 Heidelberg Germany kumar at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de Mobile: +49 176 850 500 77 Office: +49 6221 54 4306 Fax: +49 6221 54 4012 http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/research/areas/b/projects/b1-gauging-cultural-asymmetries/prabhat-kumar From geetaseshu at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 15:26:56 2009 From: geetaseshu at gmail.com (geeta seshu) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:26:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] a letter to Sarai admin In-Reply-To: <98f331e00908162251x461570e2he97b8b5cced723ab@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00908162251x461570e2he97b8b5cced723ab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6df6732b0908170256q3a9b45efl83380e7032f41d32@mail.gmail.com> Hi I agree too and, at the risk of adding to the endless emails...I was on the verge of unsubscribing countless times over the last few months but have hung on hoping to read interesting debates - unfortunately, a few people seem to monopolise this space too... geeta seshu, mumbai On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 11:21 AM, prakash ray wrote: > I completely endorse Yousuf's suggestions and share his concerns. > > Prakash > www.cinemela.youthv.com > http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=118193556385&ref=ts > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 15:31:40 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:31:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Uniform Civil Code In-Reply-To: <278759.79132.qm@web39107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <278759.79132.qm@web39107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear all I add two things here. First my apologies towards all those who have felt painful by kind of posts (from me in any way) if they feel the no. of posts by a user per day should be restricted. I did not think things would have come to such a stage, but now that it has, I have decided on my own count not to post more than 3 posts in a day typed by me, irrespective of what the moderator has to say. (The RTF posts, I exclude as those are newspaper articles and not my views, and I hope I am excused for the same). This starts from today itself. And also, I would take care from my own side not to turn discussions on issues into slanging matches or hara-kiri as one of the members stated. This is my 1st post for today. The second thing being the reply to Malik jee's point. The Uniform Civil Code as I said, must be introduced subject to two important conditions, which I repeat again: 1) Is there a reason for the Code to be on the Statute as Law? If yes, what's the reason? And if no, then what are the reasons? 2) Secondly, there should be a public discussions at all levels (gram panchayat levels, school, colleges, media, all economic classes, women, mature adults among all possible age-groups etc etc., including on Sarai as well). From that, obviously a consensus will emerge (for which if required, a referendum can be carried out as well). Once that is out, we can find out whether such a Code is considered important by the Indian public as a 'requirement' or not. I know what I say is not easy. But arbitrarily imposing the Act as a 'top-down' approach is not something I agree with, particularly as this approach has failed most miserably in the aspect of development (in the holistic sense). Therefore, we do require an informed public discussion where all get to put across their views and all voices are heard. And plus again, grievances can be better addressed through this manner. As for your argument, since the SC can decide and over-rule judgements based on Sharia or otherwise, I think it's fit enough and we don't in practice require the Uniform Civil Code. The Constitution doesn't give a recognition to Sharia necessarily as a Code of Law to give justice or judgements. (If I am wrong, please provide information on same account). Therefore, the problem is not so much the absence of the Code, as the pandering of our legislature to the fundamentalists and extremists on all directions and sides. We need to seriously consider this and guard ourselves against it. Please therefore, let us have at least a discussion on Sarai. I wish all those who support the Code express their views, as also those who feel against it. Regards Rakesh From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 17 15:53:04 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 03:23:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?Highlights_of_PM=E2=80=99s_Independence_D?= =?utf-8?q?ay_speech_-_198?= Message-ID: <687561.11929.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Rakesh   I am sure this is as tiresome for you as it is for me and certainly would be so for other List members (as some have already commented on such to-and-fro exchanges). I will try to keep it simple.   1. INTRIGUED : At one place you ask me "can you also specify what are nominal rates and what are the nos. outside the brackets?" ....... At another place you comment "(the nos both outside brackets and also those mentioned as nominal rates), I dont' think there's any contradiction of those figures with that of the NCEUS report." ....... INTRIGUED........  If you did not understand the numbers how could you confirm non-contradiction with NCEUS report. INTRIGUED.   2. NOMINAL RATE : Official Currency Exchange Rate in the market at which transactions take place.   3. Since figures are being quoted with a stretch between 2004-05 to 2007, I considered a band of Nominal Exchange Rates  from $1 = Rs 40 to $1 = Rs 48   4. Since I brought in a 2007 comment of a World Bank official about 80% below $2 per day, so I took the PPP factors reigning since 2007 with the range 2.65 to 2.74   5. CALCULATIONS:   a. If Official (nominal) Exchange rate is $1= Rs 40 then under PPP (or International Dollar)     $1 PPP = Rs 40 /  2.65 = Rs 15.09                (OR $1 PPP = Rs 40 / 2.74 = Rs 14.60)     as REAL TRANSACTED RUPEES   b. If Official (nominal) Exchange rate is $1= Rs 48 then under PPP (or International Dollar)     $1 PPP = Rs 48 /  2.65 = Rs 18.11                (OR $1 PPP = Rs 48 / 2.74 = Rs 17.52)     as REAL TRANSACTED RUPEES   6. CALCULATIONS for WORLD BANK $2 figure (which is taken as a PPP value):   a. If Official (nominal) Exchange rate is $1= Rs 40 then under PPP (or International Dollar)     $2 PPP = 2 x Rs 40 /  2.65 = Rs 30.19      (OR $2 PPP = 2 x Rs 40 / 2.74 = Rs 29.20)     as REAL TRANSACTED RUPEES   b. If Official (nominal) Exchange rate is $1= Rs 48 then under PPP (or International Dollar)     $2 PPP = 2 x Rs 48 /  2.65 = Rs 36.23      (OR $2 PPP = 2 x Rs 48 / 2.74 = Rs 35.04)     as REAL TRANSACTED RUPEES   7. FROM ABOVE : There was no mistake in my typing. I had deduced the World Bank figure of $2 translates into Rs 29.19 to Rs 35 compared to the Rs 20 from NCEUS.      You have the FREE CHOICE of taking the NCEUS figure of Rs 20 as being valid.   Hopefully this will be my last mail on this thread.    Kshmendra         --- On Sun, 8/16/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: From: Rakesh Iyer Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Highlights of PM’s Independence Day speech - 198 To: "Kshmendra Kaul" Cc: "Sarai Reader-list" Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 9:03 PM Dear Kshamendra The problem is that the sources I did get for the PPP conversion (from dollars to rupees) have different datas. The one I got for petrol was stating that it was about Rs. 10 as per 2000 data, whereas there was one which stated that Rs. 13.60 as per 2007 data (Wikipedia source). Hence, you are right when you talk about my having chosen that value of Rs. 10. I chose it, as an unfortunate consequence, of not having proper info, taking the lowest value into account, to avoid any kind of bias in calculation. Hence also, I didn't mention the source. (Then again, the World Bank data I mentioned in one of my previous mails give a different rate of conversion). I think there is a mistake in your typing, or in your calculations, because the factor of conversion is 2.65-2.74 when you say "  For the International Dollar the factor in 2008 is generally reported as between 2.65 and 2.74 for the In Rs." whereas then you further add "$2 (under PPP) would therefore at worst be around Rs 35 (nominal rate Rs 48)  and Rs 29.19 (nominal rate Rs 40)." I think it's 12.65-12.74 you are talking about, please do reply, so that I can clarify. And from the figures you gave (the nos both outside brackets and also those mentioned as nominal rates), I dont' think there's any contradiction of those figures with that of the NCEUS report. By the way, since I gave the World Bank figures, I would also specify the rate of conversion in that fact I gave: Rs. 15 (rural areas): = $1.25 (PPP) then $1 (PPP) = Rs. 12 Rs. 21.6 (urban areas) = $1.25 (PPP) then $1 (PPP) = Rs. 17.28 I don't know which one to accept, but I take the lower limit as Rs. 12 for the moment. Just as clarification, can you also specify what are nominal rates and what are the nos. outside the brackets? Regards Rakesh P.S: I agree with you that World Bank gives data in PPP terms. But I also said that the PPP is itself in a controversy, as to whether it should be used or not. From missedt at googlemail.com Mon Aug 17 16:06:23 2009 From: missedt at googlemail.com (tee sagoo) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:36:23 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Debating South Asian art & culture - Wed 19 Aug 2009 - London Message-ID: Hi, If you are in London on Wednesday please come along to this debate, You are invited to an event, which will focus on how Asians in Britain can contribute artistically, and culturally to the new globalised south Asian culture. It is said that the 19th Century belonged to the Europeans and the 20th century belonged to the Americans. Some American commentators believe that that the 21st century is till up for grabs. But Asia’s economic and demographic explosion will ensure that the 21st Century belongs to Asia (by 2025 there will be 1.9 bn people living in South Asia). What artistic and cultural contribution will Asians in Britain make to this new paradigm? This event is FREE but space is limited. Anyone interested in this event is encouraged to RSVP to reserve a seat to; *tajender at popsamiti.com* Dr Kishore Budha; Media researcher from the Institute of Communications Studies, University of Leeds. Parmjit Singh; Independent filmmaker, runs Agitate films and Creative Director of Black Chilli Productions Parminder Vir O.B.E; Executive Producer and Media Consultant and founder of the Mayfair Club. Wednesday August 19 2009 Borders Charing Cross 122 Charing Cross Road London WC2H 0JR Telephone: 020 7379 8877 Leading experts debate South Asian Culture 6.30 FREE Tottenham Court Road Station www.popsamiti.com * * From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 16:30:09 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:30:09 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Highlights_of_PM=92s_Independence_?= =?windows-1252?q?Day_speech_-_198?= In-Reply-To: <687561.11929.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <687561.11929.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Kshamendra (and all) My 2nd post of the day (excluding RTF). (for all those who wish to count) I was intrigued at how you arrived at those figures (as well as what nominal rates mean), so what I did is take all those figures you gave as values of what can be the values of $2 in PPP terms (Rs. 29.19, Rs 40, Rs 48 and Rs. 35), and compared them with Rs. 20. Now the Sengupta report says that 77% of the people earn less than Rs. 20 per day. Going by that logic, they obviously earn less than either of all the figures you have stated. Therefore, I didn't see any reason as to why the Sengupta report would be wrong. And for the exchange rate, there's something called a market exchange rate, so I got confused between what you mentioned and what I got on the Internet. So right, culpable again for doing the wrong thing. Won't repeat it next time, is all I can say. And what I still don't understand is that why can the Sengupta report be doubted on this count, even after the explanations you gave. The NCEUS doesn't declare that $2 (PPP) = Rs. 20, but says that 77% Indians live earning less than that per day, (Rs. 20). Therefore, I still didn't get why you consider it as wrong or incorrect. Would be nice if you were to send that in a personal mail. And yes, any replies on this I would send on your personal id, hoping it's not an issue with you. By the way, here's the PM's speech for all those who want to read it in a proper way: Link: http://www.hindu.com/nic/pmaddress.htm PM's speech: “Dear countrymen, brothers and sisters, I consider myself fortunate to once again have the opportunity to address you on this sacred day of 15th August. On this auspicious occasion, I extend my hearty greetings to all of you. Today is most certainly a day of happiness and pride for us. We are proud of our freedom. We are proud of our democracy. We are proud of our values and ideals. But we should also remember that it has taken the sacrifices of lakhs of Indians to bring us where we are today. Our well being and progress have been built upon the foundation of the hard work and sacrifices of our freedom fighters, the brave jawans of our armed forces, our farmers, our workers and our scientists. Today, we remember all those martyrs who laid down their lives for the freedom and security of our country. The best way of paying homage to those brave sons of our country will be to resolve today that we will always stay committed to strengthening the unity and integrity of our nation. Let us all together take a vow that we will spare no effort to take India to greater heights. The elections held a few months back have strengthened our nation and our democracy. In these elections, the people of India have favoured a politics that integrates our country and our society. You have chosen a political arrangement which is secular and which includes many varied strands of thought. You have voted for a democratic way of life which provides for resolution of differences through debate and discussion. I am of the view that we have received a mandate for starting a new era of cooperation and harmony in our national life. We accept with humility the great responsibility you have entrusted to us. I wish to assure you on this sacred day that we will work with sincerity and dedication to fulfil the expectation of each and every citizen of India. It will be our effort to ensure that every citizen of India is prosperous and secure and is able to lead a life of dignity and self respect. We will derive inspiration in our work from the ideals of service and sacrifice bequeathed to us by the father of our nation, Mahatma Gandhi. Our Government will follow the path shown by Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, Shrimati Indira Gandhi, Shri Rajiv Gandhi and other great leaders of our country. It will be our endeavour to carry everyone with us and to lead the country ahead on the path of development by creating an environment of consensus and cooperation. We know that India's progress can be real only when every citizen of our country benefits from it. Every Indian has a right over our national resources. The policies and schemes of our Government in the last 5 years have been based on this paradigm. It has been our endeavour to ensure that the benefit of development reaches all sections of the society and all regions and citizens of the country. Our efforts have succeeded to some extent. But our work is still incomplete. We will carry it forward with firm determination and sincerity. As you know, our economy grew at a rate of about 9% from the year 2004-05 to the year 2007-08. This growth rate came down to 6.7% in 2008-09 due to the global economic crisis. It is only a result of our policies that the global crisis has affected us to a lesser extent than many other countries. Restoring our growth rate to 9% is the greatest challenge we face. We will make every necessary effort to meet this challenge¬¬¬ -- whether it is for increasing capital flows into the country, or for encouraging exports or for increasing public investment and expenditure. We expect that there will be an improvement in the situation by the end of this year, but till that time we will all have to bear with the fall out of the global economic slow down. I appeal to all businessmen and industrialists to join us in our effort to tackle this difficult situation and to fulfill their social obligations fully. I have always believed that India's prosperity is not possible without the prosperity of our farmers. This is the reason why our Government had waived bank loans of lakhs of farmers. We have increased the support prices for agricultural products by far more than ever before. This year there has been deficiency in the monsoons. This would definitely have some adverse impact on our crops. But, I am sure we will be able to meet the situation quite well. We will provide all possible assistance to our farmers to deal with the drought. In view of the deficiency in the monsoons, we have postponed the date for repayment of bank loans of our farmers. We are also giving additional support to farmers for payment of interest on short term crop loans. We have adequate stocks of foodgrains. All efforts will be made to control the rising prices of foodgrains, pulses and other goods of daily use. I appeal to all State governments to exercise their statutory powers to prevent hoarding and black marketing of essential commodities. We will have to adopt modern means to be successful in agriculture. We will have to make more efficient use of our scarce land and water resources. Our scientists must devise new techniques to increase the productivity of our small and marginal farmers. More attention will have to be paid to the needs of those farmers who do not have means for irrigation. The country needs another Green Revolution and we will try our best to make it possible. Our goal is 4% annual growth in agriculture and I am confident that we will be able to achieve this target in the next 5 years. It is our ardent desire that not even a single citizen of India should ever go hungry. This is the reason why we have promised a food security law under which every family living below the poverty line will get a fixed amount of foodgrains every month at concessional rates. It is also our national resolve to root out malnutrition from our country. In this effort, special care will be taken of the needs of women and children. We will endeavour to extend the benefit of ICDS to every child below the age of six years in the country by March 2012. The first UPA government had given the right to 100 days of employment in a year to every rural family through the National Rural Employment Guarantee Act. In the last 4 years, this programme has been expanded to cover the whole country. The programme has been able to fulfil the expectations from it to a large extent. In the year 2008-09, it benefited about 4 crore families. It has also contributed to improvement in rural infrastructure. In the coming days we will improve the programme to bring more transparency and accountability into it. New types of works will be added to the works that can be taken up under the programme. We know that good education is not only desirable in itself but is also essential for the empowerment of our people. We have recently enacted the Right to Education Act. This law provides to each child of our country the right to elementary education. I wish to make it clear that funds will not be a constraint as far as education is concerned. We will give special attention to the needs of disabled children. As a result of our efforts in the last few years, almost every child in our country has access to primary education today. Now we also need to pay greater attention to secondary education. Secondary education will be expanded through a programme that will ensure that every child in the country gets its benefit. We will endeavour to provide bank loans and scholarships to the maximum possible number of students to support their education. A new scheme will be started to help students from economically weaker sections of society by way of reduced interest rate on their education loans. This will benefit about 5 lakh students in getting technical and professional education. Good health is one of our basic needs. The National Rural Health Mission that we have started aims at strengthening the infrastructure for rural public health services. We will expand the Rashtriya Swasthya Bima Yojana so as to cover each family below the poverty line. In our journey on the road of development we will pay special attention to the needs of our differently abled brothers and sisters. We will increase facilities available for them. While touching upon issues related to health, I would also like to make a mention of the flu that is spreading due to the H1N1 virus. As you all know, some parts of our country have been affected by this illness. The Central Government and the State Governments will together continue to make all necessary efforts to control the spread of this infection. I also want to assure you that the situation does not warrant a disruption of our daily lives because of fear and anxiety. The special programmes that our government had started for the development of rural and urban areas will be accelerated. We have been successful to some extent in improving the infrastructure in rural areas through Bharat Nirman. But there is still a wide disparity between the development of rural and urban areas. To this end, the allocations under Bharat Nirman have been increased substantially this year. We will set more ambitious targets for schemes for house construction and telecommunications in rural areas. We will accelerate our efforts to improve physical infrastructure in the country. The Road Transport and National Highways Department has initiated action for construction of 20 Km of National Highways every day. Similarly, Railways have started work on the Dedicated Freight Corridors. We are giving careful attention to the problems of Air India and will resolve them soon. The schemes of roads, railways and civil aviation being implemented in Jammu & Kashmir and the States of the North East will be especially monitored. We had started the Jawaharalal Nehru National Urban Renewal Mission for the urban areas. We will accelerate this programme also. Today, lakhs of our citizens live in slums which lack basic amenities. We wish to make our country slum free as early as possible. In the next five years, we will provide better housing facilities to slum dwellers through a new scheme, Rajiv Awas Yojana. Climate change has become an issue of global concern in recent years. If we don't take the necessary steps in time, our glaciers will melt and our rivers will go dry. The problems of droughts and floods will grow in seriousness. We also need to prevent air pollution. India wishes to tackle the problem of climate change in partnership with other countries of the world. We have taken a decision to constitute 8 National Missions. We are committed to meet the challenge of climate change through these 8 Missions. To increase the use of solar energy and to make it affordable, we will launch the Jawaharlal Nehru National Solar Mission on 14th November of this year. The sacred Ganga is the life source for crores of Indians. It is our duty to keep the river clean. We have constituted the National Ganga Authority in which the Central and State Governments will jointly work towards this end. The cooperation of the public is also needed in this effort. Our natural resources are limited. We must use them more efficiently. We need a new culture of energy conservation. We also need to prevent the misuse of water. We will pay more attention to programmes for water collection and storage. "Save Water" should be one of our national slogans. If we work united, we can meet all challenges that confront us. Our citizens have the right to express dissent and anger. I also maintain that every government should be sensitive to people's complaints and dissatisfaction. But nothing is achieved by destroying public property and indulging in violence against one's fellow citizens. Our democracy has no place for those who resort to violence to express their disagreement, and the government will deal firmly with such people. Terrorism has emerged as a threat to peace and harmony in all parts of the world. After the horrific terror attacks in Mumbai in last November, our government has taken many steps against terrorism. To root out terrorist activities, our security forces and intelligence agencies are being constantly upgraded. I am sure that with cooperation from all sections of our society, we will be successful in eliminating terrorism from our country. Some parts of our country continue to be affected by the Naxalite menace. It is the constitutional obligation of the government to protect the life and liberty of our citizens. Those who think that they can seize power by recourse to the gun do not understand the strength of our democracy. The Central Government will redouble its efforts to deal with Naxalite activities. We will extend all help to the State Governments to make their police forces more effective. Central forces will be provided wherever they are needed. We will also do more to ensure better coordination among States. I would also like to state here that we will endeavour to remove those causes of social and economic dissatisfaction which give rise to problems like Naxalism. We believe in a development process which will remove backwardness, unemployment and reduce disparities in income and wealth. We seek active partnership of our brothers and sisters of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes in our development processes. We do not subscribe to the view that to take special care of the deprived sections of the society amounts to appeasement. In fact, we believe that it is our solemn duty to do so. Our government will give its full attention to the well being of our brothers and sisters belonging to the minority communities. We have started many schemes for the welfare of the minorities. These programmes will be taken forward. The funds for the special schemes taken up for the development of minority concentration districts have been enhanced quite substantially this year. Similarly, we have allocated increased funds for scholarship schemes for minorities that the first UPA government had started. A Bill to prevent communal violence has been introduced in Parliament and efforts will be made to convert it into a law as soon as possible. The practice of female foeticide regrettably persists in our society. This is a shame for all of us. We must eliminate it as early as possible. Our progress will be incomplete till women become equal partners in all areas of our life and in our nation's progress. Our government is committed to the early passage of the Women's Reservation Bill. This legislation will provide one-third reservation for women in Parliament and the State Assemblies. We are also working on a legislation to provide 50% reservation for women in rural and urban local bodies. In fact, we should find ways and means to increase the participation of women in all democratic institutions. Our government will make sustained efforts for social and economic empowerment of women. We have decided to launch a National Female Literacy Mission, through which female illiteracy will be reduced by half in the next three years. We are proud of our brave soldiers. It is our duty to ensure that ex-servicemen are able to lead a life of comfort. We have accepted the recommendations of the committee constituted to examine the issue of pension of ex-servicemen. This will lead to increased pension for about 12 lakh retired jawans and Junior Commissioned Officers. In our journey of development, we should not only pay special attention to some sections of our society, but must also take care of the special needs of the backward regions of our country. We will redouble our efforts to remove regional imbalances in the level of development. Here I would like to make a special mention of our States of the North-East. Our government will constantly endeavour to make the States of the North East equal partners in the country's progress. Imphal or Kohima may be physically far away from Delhi, but the welfare of our brothers and sisters of the North East is always close to our heart. We know that without their well-being the country cannot move forward. There have been two elections in Jammu & Kashmir since I addressed you on the last Independence Day. The first one was for the State Legislative Assembly and the second for the Lok Sabha. People of all areas of the State have participated vigorously in both the elections. This is a proof that there is no place for separatist thought in Jammu & Kashmir. Our Government will continue assisting the State Government in improving governance in all parts of Jammu & Kashmir. It will be our endeavour to ensure that human rights are respected in the State and all its citizens are able to lead a life of peace and dignity in an environment of safety and security. We respect the special assurances and concessions provided to Jammu & Kashmir in our Constitution. We will continue to honour these special provisions. Today's world is becoming smaller in many respects. Whether it is the international economic crisis or terrorism or climate change - what happens in one part of the world has an effect on other parts also. The international economic and political order is changing. Questions are being raised on the functioning and continued effectiveness of the multilateral institutions established in the 20th Century. Our foreign policy should be able to cater to India's interests in these constantly changing circumstances. I am happy that we have been successful in doing this to a large extent. We have good relations with the United States, Russia, China, Japan and Europe. There is a tremendous amount of goodwill for India and its people in the countries of South East Asia, Central Asia, West Asia and the Gulf. We have further strengthened our traditional ties with Africa. We are looking for new opportunities in Latin America. As far our neighbours are concerned, we want to live with them in peace and harmony. We will make every possible effort to create an environment conducive to the social and economic development of the whole of South Asia. However good our programmes and schemes might be, their benefit will not reach the public till the government machinery is not free of corruption and till it is not effective in their implementation. I would like our public administration to be more efficient so that programmes for public good can be implemented faster. We need to improve our delivery systems to provide basic services to our citizens. We will act with speed on the recommendations of the Administrative Reforms Commission to strengthen governance. Renewed efforts will be made to decentralize public administration through the Panchayati Raj Institutions and to ensure greater involvement of people in it. Initiative will be taken for a new partnership between the civil society and the government so that tax payers' money is better spent. We have enacted the Right to Information Act to enhance accountability and transparency in public life. This law will be improved so that it is more effective. We have to make special efforts to strengthen the administrative machinery for our rural programmes. Those who live in villages and semi-urban areas should get services similar to the residents of urban areas. Communication and Information Technology can go a long way in achieving this objective. Recently, we have set up the Unique Identification Authority of India. This is a historic step to link up the whole country through a high quality administrative arrangement. We expect the first set of identity numbers to be available in the next one to one and a half years. Today, as I stand before you I can feel the energy of more than 100 crore Indians marching ahead on the path of progress. Some people question whether India will ever be able to attain its true potential. I have no doubt about this. We are rapidly moving forward. We have faith in ourselves. We have political stability. Our democracy is an example for the whole world. We are gaining in economic strength. And most importantly, we have full confidence in our youth. They are our future. I am sure that they will take our country to a new glory. Let us all commit ourselves today to working for a golden future. On this sacred occasion let us resolve that nation building will be our highest duty. Jai HindJai HindJai Hind.” From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 16:36:39 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:36:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 16 Message-ID: Source: The Hindu Date: Wednesday, Aug 04, 2004 Link: http://www.hinduonnet.com/2004/08/04/stories/2004080408040400.htm Article: New Delhi [image: Printer Friendly Page] [image: Send this Article to a Friend] * Ration cards elude the poor * By Our Staff Reporter NEW DELHI, AUG. 3. It has been two years since Kamlesh, a widow staying with her three children in the Kalyanpuri slum clusters in the Capital, has been trying to get a ration card made but without any success. The local Food and Civil Supplies Department has refused to give her even the application form. "They are asking me to prove that I am a widow. It is only then that I would get a form," Kamlesh said. The story of Bhagva Devi, another widow who lost her ration card a few years ago, is no different. The area ration office has not issued her a duplicate ration card. At a public hearing on Saturday, many women like Kamlesh and Bhagva spoke about the "indifferent attitude" of the Delhi Government when it came to giving the poor a ration card and timely distribution of food through fair price shops. "Who cares for the poor? The entire system exists only on papers. It is a big farce," alleged Arvind Kejriwal, of Parivartan, the non-government organisation, which organised the public hearing. Claiming that many poor people have not been issued ration cards, Mr. Kejriwal alleged that even those who had were not getting the ration. "Almost 90 per cent of the supplies in most parts of the Capital are being siphoned off. A physical verification done by Parivartan at a few shops in East Delhi has revealed this startling fact," he said. Alleging that the public distribution system was not reaching the targeted group, he said the poor were being deprived of their right to food. While there are 34 lakh ration cardholders above the poverty line, only 4.09 lakhs were from below poverty line (BPL). Arguing that those above the poverty line hardly lifted their ration from the fair price shop and as a result it was sold in the market, the public hearing demanded that the number of BPL be increased to 10 lakhs. From jeebesh at sarai.net Mon Aug 17 16:50:46 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:50:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sunderban Diaries Message-ID: <39569EE7-6416-4426-B731-A99808569405@sarai.net> dear All, I am posting a text by a 10 years old. He is a friend's son. I liked this dairy. The weird thing is that all that he sees and shares is totally under threat. Maybe 20 to 25 years down the line the tiger would have disappeared and water polo may not be a joke anymore. Sometimes the simple innocence can make us wonder what we are bring into our world. love jeebes Sunderban Diaries 25th May, 2008: Came to the Sunderbans today. At Goshaba Ghat, we took a launch that took us to the resort where we were staying. We were staying in a hut thatched with straw. We had lunch, fish curry and rice (I hate fish but my father said we must eat what we were given) and took another launch again to see a river. I saw an osprey feasting on a snake. But sadly there were no crocodiles to be seen. I stayed on the launch till 5 p.m. Then returned to the resort, had dinner and went off to sleep. 26th May: I woke up in the morning at 6. We carried our breakfast to the launch. I saw people fishing for little tiger prawns. There were no crocodiles because it was too hot for them. Our guide told us that in winter, the crocodiles came and sat on the banks in the sunlight. Suddenly, a fin came out of the water. My father shouted, ‘Look a Gangetic Dolphin.’ I was so excited that I almost fell into the water. At six, we returned to the resort. We saw tiger palms where tigers hide in the daytime. The trees have similar colours as the tiger skin and they camouflage the animals. But alas, no tiger! 27th May: Today we decided to take the launch right into the interiors of Sundarbans. There I saw the famous mangroves, the sundari trees that give Sunderban its name. Mangroves are trees that breathe with their roots, which go underground but come up again. They just look like steel spikes except that they don’t come out of concrete but mud! Some trees were standing in the middle of the water. I had already seen the picture of a delta in a map but now for the first time, I saw one in real life. Later, on a forest reserve base camp I saw a green tree snake…hissss! We also saw some deer swimming and crossing the river. I saw a crocodile at last! It was at least ten feet long and it was half hidden in the water. It had big yellow eyes with slits. This place is called Sudhanyakhali. Behind an embankment, some boys were playing football. My father said when the embankments break, they will be playing water polo. I remembered watching the water as our launch moved: it was covered with oil and grease left behind by passing launches like ours. The water was greenish brown and during low tide the silt caked our feet. Ritwik Saha Std VI, Springdales School, Pusa Road, Delhi. Age: 10 years 7 months. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 16:52:27 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:52:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 16 Message-ID: Source: Frontline Volume: *Volume 23 - Issue 21 :: Oct. 21-Nov. 03, 2006* Link: http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2321/stories/20061103000904900.htm Article: *State of misery * ANNIE ZAIDI * The Sahariya tribal population in Sheopur district continues to suffer from hunger and malnutrition. * LIFE for the Sahariya tribal people in Madhya Pradesh is an unending struggle against hunger, malnutrition, disease and, above all, neglect. In August 2006, *Frontline* reported hunger-related deaths in Sheopur district, which has a high concentration of Sahariyas. Earlier too, in May 2005, * Frontline* had reported hunger-related deaths in the district. In another visit in October 2006, *Frontline* found that not much had changed except in Patalgarh, the village that was in the news so often in the past year, and for all the wrong reasons. In other villages, children continue to slide into the dark folds of hunger, and disappear. In Ranipura village, about 60 kilometres from the district headquarters, eight children died this year, six of them in August. Right to Food activists had prepared a list of severely malnourished children whose lives were in danger and who needed immediate medical attention. By the time * Frontline* visited the village in the first week of October, two of the children, both one year old, were dead: Raju, son of Ramdin Sahariya, and Aphim, son of Jasbir Sahariya. Local residents were not sure what went wrong, but they said that the children became weak and looked like they were "drying up from the inside". Imarti, the helper at the anganwadi centre in Ranipura, said: "We did what we could for Raju. I gave him biscuits to eat, but couldn't save his life. What can I do? The jeep [the mobile medical unit] came only twice in the last couple of months. The medicines were not working anyway. If there is no jeep, how am I to take the children to the hospital? Where is the money?" An elderly person of the village, Ramratan Sahariya, put the matter in perspective: "The world dances to the tune of money. That is the trouble." The real trouble is that the Sahariya tribal population in Sheopur district has very little money and therefore limited access to nutrition and health care. The Sahariyas are one of the three most backward tribes in Madhya Pradesh; they are entitled to BPL (below poverty line) ration cards (which many of them do not have), basic health services and at least 100 days of employment a year. Their children are entitled to mid-day meals in schools. Despite these entitlements, deprivation persists. There is a mobile `medical van' that goes around the district; but it usually visits only 20-25 villages that have been identified as `hotspots' of sickness. Jeevan Devi, who is at least 60 years old, of Gothra village in Karhal block, is suffering from swelling of the stomach, which probably needs surgery. She said she had gone to the district hospital but "the hospital asks for money. They say it will cost at least Rs.4,000-5,000. I do not have that much. Even the nurse asks for money." BPL families are supposed to be given health cards, which entitle them to free treatment up to a certain amount. But residents of this village have never even heard of this. In Kapura hamlet, at least 13 children have died over the past year. None of their names is to be found in the anganwadi register. The anganwadi worker, Bilasi Devi, cannot write; her husband helps her to maintain the register. She told *Frontline*: "My superviser came and took down the names of the dead children, but she did not give me a copy." There were other irregularities in the Integrated Child Development Services (ICDS) records. For instance, there were no names of children under one year. In short, there were no records of births or deaths. Recently, a Supreme Court-appointed Joint Commission of Inquiry visited Sheopur district. The team included activists, doctors and government representatives. P.S. Vijay Shankar, the representative sent by the Supreme Court adviser Dr. Mihir Shah, told *Frontline* that the commission's report was not yet ready, but that going by first impressions nothing seemed to be working in the district. "Because there was a huge hue and cry, they are doing something for Patalgarh. The Collector often visits the village and activists keep a check too. But elsewhere, curative health in tribal hamlets is almost absent. You cannot even find private hospitals. There are some preventive services, like vaccination. However, in an emergency, the whole structure collapses." The team was witness to some interesting exchanges. In Ranipura, the primary schoolteacher showed up, asking how he was expected to manage alone a school with 108 children. The villagers responded by shouting at him, saying that since he did not "manage" anything at all, he should not talk. The school was open only about once a week, on an average, and that was the only time their children got their mid-day meals. In another instance, the villagers' job cards were found to be in the custody of the panchayat secretary. After some interrogation by the team, the sarpanch admitted that he and the secretary had split between them the funds meant for wages for work under the National Rural Employment Guarantee Act (NREGA). "Patalgarh was, in fact, the best we could hope to find," Vijay Shankar said. "At least, temporary BPL cards had been issued as an emergency measure after the media reports last year. The villagers were still using them. NREGA schemes were working. Job cards were distributed. A link road is being made. The PDS [public distribution system] supplies are now being sent on a tractor, instead of waiting for the villagers to come to the ration shop." The only problem with this arrangement is that the date of distribution is not a fixed one, and the villagers are never sure when exactly the ration-bearing tractor will show up. If they miss a month's quota of 35 kg of rations, they miss it for good; there is no `carry-over' quota when the rations arrive the following month. Even otherwise, they rarely get more than 30 kg. Vijay Shankar pointed out that in 2004 the apex court ruled that if people could not afford to buy even subsidised grain at one go, they should be able to buy their rations in parts. "This is not happening. If they cannot afford to take it all at once, they can say bye-bye to their rations." An observer present during the court-appointed team's visit said that things have started to change. "There is some social support now, which was missing five years ago. People are getting work, almost at their doorstep. All of it adds up. That a tractor comes with ration supplies is also a good sign. That way, collecting rations becomes a collective event, and it is harder to turn away people. It is harder to push them around now. Patalgarh is moving in the right direction." Maybe. But Patalgarh is only one of the many tribal villages of Madhya Pradesh that continue to suffer. Jaddapura village, for instance, even more remote than Patalgarh, has recorded at least 10 deaths this year; five of the dead were children. But it gets no attention because, unlike in Patalgarh, no doctor has certified that these deaths were caused by hunger. The administration, of course, denies that there were any starvation deaths in the region. The children who died never got any medical examination, so it is impossible now to prove what killed them. However, Collector M.S. Bhilala admitted that there is widespread malnutrition in the district. "We cannot deny it. It is a perennial problem among the Sahariyas, especially because they are not educated and are very superstitious. But we are also facing a severe shortage of staff. There is approximately a 40 per cent shortage of medical staff, anganwadi workers, teachers and so on. We have written to the State administration and asked for more support. There is one malnutrition rehabilitation centre in Sheopur and we are trying to set up centres in Vijaypur and Karhal." Such centres are needed urgently. In Sheopur, 57.68 per cent of the children are malnourished, 2.59 per cent of them severely so. Madhya Pradesh has a bad overall record, with 49.2 per cent of the children being malnourished. Compounded by the lack of health services, this translates into a higher death toll. As Vijay Shankar put it - "Hunger is part of the backwardness package, and the Sahariyas are particularly vulnerable. Our aim, during this trip, was not to establish that starvation deaths happen. Those are like the flashpoint at the tip of the volcano. We have to listen to the rumblings beneath the earth." From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 16:58:32 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:58:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 16 Message-ID: Source: The Hindu Date: Wednesday, Aug 15, 2007 Link: http://www.hinduonnet.com/2007/08/15/stories/2007081561461000.htm Article: *Meeting calls for nutrition strategy * Staff Reporter * “It should focus on children aged below two, especially in marginalised groups” * CHENNAI: Even 60 years after independence, health surveys indicate that malnutrition in the country remains “critical.” According to the third National Family Health Survey, 46 per cent of children aged below three are undernourished, while 79 per cent in this age group as well as 70 per cent of pregnant women are anaemic. To come up with new strategies to deal with the widespread problem of malnutrition, representatives of the Union Government, several State governments, the United Nations and non-governmental organisations came together at a national conclave here on Tuesday. Among the recommendations made by the group are the formulation of a national strategy on nutrition that will focus on children under the age of two, especially in the marginalised groups, greater emphasis on nutrition education and awareness, more focus on the urban poor through mapping of slum clusters and improved evaluation of the existing nutrition programmes. Health awareness Social Welfare Minister Poongothai Aladi Aruna said the Government would focus on improving the health awareness of pregnant women in particular, to significantly enhance the nutritional status of children under the age of three. “The best time to educate a mother about the importance of nutrition is when a woman is pregnant,” Dr. Poongothai said. “Studies suggest growth retardation of children starts during pregnancy and nearly 30 per cent of the babies are born underweight. By the time they are two years old, most life-time growth retardation has taken place, and this is largely irreversible.” She highlighted the need for informing pregnant mothers that breast feeding could protect babies from infectious diseases, while “simple” folic acid tablets could ensure proper brain development. M.S. Swaminathan, agricultural scientist and chairman, M.S. Swaminathan Research Foundation, emphasised the need for “synergy” among public policy, healthcare, education and sanitation to bring about a significant improvement in nutrition levels. “Nutrition is the first among a human being’s needs,” he said. “The right to food is a fundamental right. Nutritional awareness and literacy are extremely important in this country.” Around 100 participants from 50 different groups participated in the three-day national discussion, which the foundation organised along with the Indian Council of Medical Research, the Ministries of Health and Family Welfare and Woman and Child Development and the United States Agency for International Development. From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 17:07:05 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:07:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 16 Message-ID: Source: The Hindu Business Line Date: Friday, Sep 12, 2008 Link: http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2008/09/12/stories/2008091250220900.htm Article: *Food security for thought * ------------------------------ * The goal of ‘food for all’ is proving more elusive than ever in the face of rising prices and falling production. * *Devendra Mishra Subhash Sharma * Way back in 1946 at Noakhali, Mahatma Gandhi had perceptively remarked: “To the hungry, God is bread.” Right to food is a basic birthright for all and is an integral part of the right to life enshrined in Article 21 of the Indian Constitution as well as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948). However, in the last 10 years, the goal of ‘food for all’ seems farther away than ever for the developing world, including India. In the last three years, food prices worldwide have risen 83 per cent, raising fears of increased malnutrition, hunger and political instability. In much of the developing world, where 60-80 per cent of a family’s income is spent on food, every 20 per cent increase in food prices pushes 100 million more people into the ranks of the poorest of the poor — those who live on less than $1 a day. According to Prof M. S. Swaminathan (2008), “Sustainable food security involves physical, economic and social access to a balanced diet and clean drinking water for every child, woman and man in the country.” Farmers in need In India, a small/marginal farmer is forced to sell a part of his food production, even when it is insufficient to meet his family’s yearly needs, to be able to pay for necessities such as utensils, clothes, health, education and so on. Thus, there exists a ‘compulsive involvement’, to use Krishna Bhardwaj’s terms (1974), in the market. Second, the farmer also grows cash crops, which are more remunerative than food-grains. Third, during sowing they have to pay the labourers wages in cash. Fourth, most farmers also have to meet expenses for social obligations such as festivals, debt payment, and so on. To encourage farmers to produce more the Government provides subsidies on fertilisers and irrigation (electricity charges), crop loans, and so on. In addition, it fixes the minimum support price (MSP) for various foodgrains, pulses, oilseeds and cash crops. One may adjudge the country’s performance on foodgrains in three ways: compare India’s average yield per hectare with the world average yield per hectare; India’s percentage share in world production; and compare India’s per capita annual average availability of foodgrains with the global figure. India lags far behind the world average yield . Second, for wheat India shares 11.1 per cent of total world production and ranks third; for rice it shares 21.6 per cent of world production and ranks second; but for maize it shares just 1.7 per cent of world production and ranks seventh (with Romania). This is not satisfactory in view of its large population, which constitutes about 17 per cent of world population. Third, in terms of per capita availability, India has only 176.3 kg of foodgrains a year (an average for 1999-2001) against the world average of 358.4 kg a year, though the minimum requirement in India according to the National Institute of Nutrition (Hyderabad) is 182.5 kg per head a year (that is, about half a kg daily). Availability at local level However, irrespective of the availability at the national level, unless foodgrains are available at the local village/panchayat store, the local market, the public distribution system outlet or the cooperative store, the farmers and labourers will not have physical access to it. The third important aspect of food security is at the household level. It is a bitter fact that though India had 30 per cent of its grain production in public stock (over 60 million tonnes) in 2000, about 25 per cent of Indians were undernourished and food insecure. As the MSP is not adequate — nor are the purchase centres — farmers are compelled to sell paddy to local traders or ‘net buyers’ of villages. Therefore, as far as economic accessibility is concerned, people living below the poverty line (26 per cent) cannot afford to buy food. The fourth aspect of food security is the consumption pattern for wellbeing at the intra-household level — there is often a visible discrimination against females, children, elderly, disabled, widows, wife and children of non-earning males and so on either due to scarcity of food in the family or discriminatory social practices or individual biases of the head of the family. Finally, food absorption is another aspect of food security at the individual level. As some family members often do not get nutritious food in terms of required calories, there is an increase in the number of underweight children, children with stunted growth, diseases due to malnourishment, and infirmity leading to early mortality. What is to be done? A popular view has emerged, mostly in developing countries, that diversion of agricultural land for biofuel (ethanol) production should be reversed immediately, as it has led to 30 per cent increase in global food prices, pushing 30 million people worldwide into poverty. The solution however is not that straightforward. We must ensure that the basic needs of all people are met in an integrated manner, and not merely as a risk management or relief measure. Development programmes/schemes like the National Rural Employment Guarantee, midday meals, ICDS, sanitation and hygiene should ensure supply of nutritious food and safe drinking water through entitlement card to promote inclusive social development. Second, implementation should be decentralised through panchayats. Third, as adequate foodgrains are always available in government godowns, and given the increasing costs of storage, minimum foodgrains should be supplied even to the so-called ‘Above Poverty Line’ (APL) families; this would also prove more remunerative for PDS dealers as they will lift more quantities. Fourth, there should be greater public investment in agriculture as nearly two-thirds of Indians are engaged in it. This must ensure bringing wasteland under cultivation as well as increasing yield per acre — production and productivity. Various case studies have clearly found that public investment in infrastructure induces private investment in various agricultural activities. Fifth, while agriculture subsidies (fertilisers) should continue, it should be shifted from chemical fertilisers to green and bio-fertilisers, from chemical pesticide/insecticide/weedicide to integrated pest management, from GM seeds to improved indigenous seeds, from flood irrigation to drip irrigation. Traditional indigenous knowledge systems should be fully tapped. Thus a paradigm shift from green revolution to ‘Evergreen Revolution’, to use Prof M. S. Swaminathan’s term, is called for. (The authors are members of Indian Revenue Service and Indian Administrative Service respectively. The views are personal. blfeedback at thehindu.co.in) From jeebesh at sarai.net Mon Aug 17 17:10:54 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:10:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 16 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2A234EEA-7CD6-4276-8C4F-CAAA491929BD@sarai.net> dear Rakesh, I had earlier written on this in this list. I sincerely think that if you are tracking a process or an issue over time blog is the best place. List buries texts. It will be highly beneficial if we could know of a blog that regularly gives a compilation of the links, commentaries, reports, data about RTF we can recommend others to it and the sense of coverage will help people see the issue in it's evolution, contestation and multiple directions. You can keep posting consolidated updates to the list regularly of the blog. Taha's information tracking postings if consolidated in one blog would be a substantial resource base. Now it is buried and is difficult to track. And also limited to only the list members. You can set up an RSS feed on RTF and people can benefit a lot from it. This i am saying after considering the way we use archives of lists and realizing that lists are great with threads (threaded discussions) and blog with material coverage. warmly jeebesh On 17-Aug-09, at 4:58 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Source: The Hindu > > Date: Wednesday, Aug 15, 2007 > > Link: http://www.hinduonnet.com/2007/08/15/stories/ > 2007081561461000.htm > > Article: > > *Meeting calls for nutrition strategy * > > Staff Reporter > > * “It should focus on children aged below two, especially in > marginalised > groups” * > > CHENNAI: Even 60 years after independence, health surveys indicate > that > malnutrition in the country remains “critical.” > > According to the third National Family Health Survey, 46 per cent of > children aged below three are undernourished, while 79 per cent in > this age > group as well as 70 per cent of pregnant women are anaemic. > > To come up with new strategies to deal with the widespread problem of > malnutrition, representatives of the Union Government, several State > governments, the United Nations and non-governmental organisations > came > together at a national conclave here on Tuesday. > > Among the recommendations made by the group are the formulation of a > national strategy on nutrition that will focus on children under the > age of > two, especially in the marginalised groups, greater emphasis on > nutrition > education and awareness, more focus on the urban poor through > mapping of > slum clusters and improved evaluation of the existing nutrition > programmes. > Health awareness > > Social Welfare Minister Poongothai Aladi Aruna said the Government > would > focus on improving the health awareness of pregnant women in > particular, to > significantly enhance the nutritional status of children under the > age of > three. “The best time to educate a mother about the importance of > nutrition > is when a woman is pregnant,” Dr. Poongothai said. > > “Studies suggest growth retardation of children starts during > pregnancy and > nearly 30 per cent of the babies are born underweight. By the time > they are > two years old, most life-time growth retardation has taken place, > and this > is largely irreversible.” > > She highlighted the need for informing pregnant mothers that breast > feeding > could protect babies from infectious diseases, while “simple” folic > acid > tablets could ensure proper brain development. > > M.S. Swaminathan, agricultural scientist and chairman, M.S. > Swaminathan > Research Foundation, emphasised the need for “synergy” among public > policy, > healthcare, education and sanitation to bring about a significant > improvement in nutrition levels. > > “Nutrition is the first among a human being’s needs,” he said. “The > right to > food is a fundamental right. Nutritional awareness and literacy are > extremely important in this country.” > > Around 100 participants from 50 different groups participated in the > three-day national discussion, which the foundation organised along > with the > Indian Council of Medical Research, the Ministries of Health and > Family > Welfare and Woman and Child Development and the United States Agency > for > International Development. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 17:11:45 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:11:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 16 Message-ID: Source: The Hindu Date: Saturday, Mar 15, 2008 Link: http://www.hindu.com/2008/03/15/stories/2008031554390500.htm Article: *HIV-positive women seek a better deal * Special Correspondent JAIPUR: HIV-positive women have sought job cards under the National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme (NREGA) and subsidized grain through the Public Distribution System and Antyodaya Anna Yogna. The Government has to ensure the right to food and work of the afflicted persons, most of whom are widows with young children, they have said. A two-day meeting of HIV-positive women organised here by the Positive Women’s Network, PUCL (Rajasthan), Lawyers’ Collective and Office of Commissioners to the Supreme Court on Right to Food found most of the affected women in heavy debt due to treatment costs and loss of livelihood. Many of them are facing the double burden of widowhood and positive status but get very little support in terms of employment opportunities and pension. More than 70 HIV-positive women from Barmer, Jhunjhunu, Ajmer, Jaipur, Karauli, Dholpur, Jalore, Churu and Hanumangarh districts took part in the meeting. Delicate situation “The situation in Rajasthan is more delicate as 30 per cent of the total affected persons are women against 26 at the national level,” observed Sudhir Verma, Director of the Social Policy Research Institute. “Another aspect about the State is that the cases are reported more from the rural districts than the urban centres,” he noted. “Very few of HIV-positive women get pension. Although they are given drugs for free, they need to spend a lot of money on transport to collect them,” observed Sushila of PWN. Rajasthan has drug centres only in Jaipur and Jodhpur and there is a need to locate one centre in each of the districts, she pointed out. In a declaration titled “Jaipur Declaration by Positive Women”, the groups sought at least 35 kg of wheat at Rs.2 per kg every month under the Antyodaya Anna Yogna to HIV-positive member households. The widows should be given separate AAY cards even if they stayed with an extended family. The State Government on its part could put in another 35 kg at Rs.2 per kg to double the entitlement, it said. The declaration demanded pension for all HIV-positive widows without any eligibility restrictions. From angshukanta at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 17:12:26 2009 From: angshukanta at gmail.com (Angshukanta Chakraborty) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 12:42:26 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Pankaj Mishra Message-ID: <77aa94900908170442p56931124qcd4d43e3710820ad@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, Does anybody here know Mr Pankaj Mishra's email ? My supervisor at the University of East London would like to contact him urgently to discuss a few things and it would be very kind if anyone could pass that on. Thanks. Regards. *Angshukanta Chakraborty* *PhD Scholar & Seminar Tutor* *School of Humanities & Social Sciences* *University of East London* *4-6, University Way London E16 2RD * *Mobile: +447846967919* From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 17:51:42 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:51:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] a letter to Sarai admin In-Reply-To: <6df6732b0908170256q3a9b45efl83380e7032f41d32@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00908162251x461570e2he97b8b5cced723ab@mail.gmail.com> <6df6732b0908170256q3a9b45efl83380e7032f41d32@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908170521o3ed6f1c3je21b9cba42b0f442@mail.gmail.com> Fully agree and endorse with the views. Regards, Rajen. On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:26 PM, geeta seshu wrote: > Hi I agree too and, at the risk of adding to the endless emails...I was on > the verge of unsubscribing countless times over the last few months but > have > hung on hoping to read interesting debates - unfortunately, a few people > seem to monopolise this space too... geeta seshu, mumbai > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 11:21 AM, prakash ray wrote: > > > I completely endorse Yousuf's suggestions and share his concerns. > > > > Prakash > > www.cinemela.youthv.com > > http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=118193556385&ref=ts > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From taraprakash at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 18:32:59 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 09:02:59 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] a blind cricket team denied visa Message-ID: <987D5D073B984055A33B30F9311F52A0@tara> Pakistan blind cricketers denied UK visa By Aleem Maqbool BBC News, Islamabad Pakistan's cricketers are worried they will not be able to defend their title Earlier this week it was members of a pipe band from Pakistan that were denied visas to travel to Britain, now it is the country's blind cricket team. Pakistan's blind cricketers are the reigning world champions. The squad members have just finished attending a nine-day training camp, ahead of what was supposed to be a four-match UK tour (on the invitation of Blind Cricket England and Wales). But the team's visa applications have been rejected. The UK Border Agency says it did not have sufficient evidence to be convinced the players would return to Pakistan once the tour was over. 'Hurt and insulted' Sitting in his Islamabad home, beside a table packed with sporting trophies, is the chairman of the Pakistan Blind Cricket Council, and former blind cricket captain Syed Sultan Shah. It feels like we are being denied our rights Syed Sultan Shah, Chairman of the Pakistan Blind Cricket Council He says he is stunned by the decision: "We provided letters from our council, and from the Pakistan Cricket Board, who confirmed they would cover all costs," he says. "The English Cricket Board supplied our names and passport numbers. The Pakistan ministry of sport gave us official leave to travel. We all signed affidavits to say we would return, and if we did not, our families would be penalised. What more could we do? "When we toured the UK in 2002 and 2006, nobody stayed behind. We just want to play cricket." Mr Shah says the players had all taken leave from work, and that hundreds of thousands of rupees (thousands of pounds) had been spent on the training camp, new kit and on the visa applications themselves. "But it's not the money. It feels like we are being denied our rights. We are all very hurt, very disturbed and feel very insulted by this," he says. No apology The UK Border Agency insists its ruling is justified. "We will make no apology for maintaining tough border controls created to prevent abuse of the immigration system," it states. "If applications do not contain the necessary evidence and we are not satisfied individuals will return at the end of their visit their visas will be refused." The statement adds that "UKBA is committed to facilitating sporting, cultural and arts exchanges". Eighteen of the 21 Pakistani players and officials that applied to travel, including the manager and assistant manager, are totally or partially blind. Many were part of the team that won the World Cup on home soil in 2006, at a tournament in which England also competed. "As a blind person, playing cricket changed my life," says Mr Shah. "I can't tell you how much confidence it gives us, and what it took to win the World Cup." "But this has really been a big blow. And we are worried we won't be able to defend our title in the future." The next World Cup is scheduled to be held in England. From taraprakash at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 18:40:48 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 09:10:48 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] a letter to Sarai admin References: <748406.60843.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thank you Yousuf for daring to suggest this. considering The low level of the "discussion" in many of the mails, one can't be sure what they might face for suggesting such a thing. So I could never muster enough courage to suggest. Thank you so much. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yousuf" To: "sarai list" ; "Monica" Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:13 AM Subject: [Reader-list] a letter to Sarai admin > Dear Sarai readers, especially the admin > We have discussed this a million times, but the habit of a few people to > put the entire list (of 2000+ subscribers) on ransom by only discussing > their favourite topics day-in and day-out doesn't seem to stop. I am not > in favour of moderating or censorship (and I love freedom of speech), but > those of us who post 40 emails a day should at least think about the > excesses they are creating in the world. > > Sometime ago someone had suggested that each subscriber should be > restricted to post a certain number of mails a day (maybe 2 or 4). Why > can't we follow something like that. I wonder if the Sarai list has the > technical options to automatically restrict people from posting in excess, > but something needs to be done desperately. These days, whenever I have > any conversations about Sarai among friends, everyone seems to have grown > fed up with it - many are thinking of unsubscribing or already have. > Simply deleting or ignoring the mails or applying filters is not enough. > Because one usually is tempted to subject headers, and one opens the Sarai > mails with a lot of expectation. But many a times, one gets disappointed > to see a sort of personal chatting going on. > > Why are we doing this hara-kiri in the name of freedom of expression. > > Yousuf > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 18:49:30 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 18:49:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] a letter to Sarai admin In-Reply-To: <7271ec560908170521o3ed6f1c3je21b9cba42b0f442@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00908162251x461570e2he97b8b5cced723ab@mail.gmail.com> <6df6732b0908170256q3a9b45efl83380e7032f41d32@mail.gmail.com> <7271ec560908170521o3ed6f1c3je21b9cba42b0f442@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear all Thinking for the past 3 hours, I have come to the conclusion that it's strange enough that the very idea of muzzling of freedom of speech is now being suggested, which is highly atrocious. I can understand the frustrations of some who feel the forum has now become one for personal attacks, and to the extent I have been responsible I feel sad and determined not to repeat it again. But the freedom to read a mail or not rests with the person himself. Similarly, the freedom to be subscribed to a forum or not also lies with the individual concerned. I don't have the right to take that freedom from an individual. But then I too do have the right to enjoy those freedoms (so also the freedom to post and discuss issues). This exercise seems to be an imposition of the will of the forum members (because they don't see serious discussions and want them, though when given the right to participate, they prefer to just listen, through a back-door method (from the moderator), to restrict the posts concerned. While I agree that some amount of moderation is essential and personal attacks shouldn't take place (hence my conduct has been wrong to some extent), I don't agree with this imposition of will to restrict freedoms, specifically when those are important for discussion in a better way. There happens a lot of useless talk in the country using the very same freedom of speech, in our day to day lives, but I have never seen or heard anyone ask for imposition of restrictions on the freedom of speech on our politicians, our bureaucrats, our media and others to ensure that 'serious discussions' take place. It's the right of the public to hear what they want to hear, debate upon what they wish to debate, and they have the right to choose what they wish. And there are innumerable news channels shouting various things, but we have the right to choose what we wish to see and hear, and what we don't wish to. Just because the administration doesn't hear us doesn't mean we do things to impose our will upon them. That's equivalent to what the Naxalites do, except that they indulge in violence while members of the forum may not. The idea of highlighting the responsibilities inherent in a freedom, is very different from imposing restriction. I would have been very happy if someone had highlighted the former (and some of you have). But to advocate the latter is wrong. *Therefore, I have a simple request from the administrator of the list/moderator of the list. While I still agree with the self-imposition of 3 articles per day (excluding RTF) from my side, in the event of the moderator imposing this regulation on the forum I request the moderator to kindly unsubscribe me from this list, because I can't be a party to a decision which I feel is unjust, and wrong. I have no issues otherwise.* This is not a threat, nor is this a fight. It's a request, and my protest against those who feel restriction is important to ensure 'non-monopolization' (I never stopped anyone from posting, nor did anybody) and 'serious discussions' (as if anybody stopped that from happening as well). And by the way, for this 'high level of discussion', how many actually came forward and put their views? Or do they think intellectuals would come from outside, and then put forward their views to have these 'brilliant discussions'? Regards Rakesh P.S: I remember having read that the Left and the Right (read BJP) came together to support the V.P.Singh Govt. I now have the privilege of seeing a similar kind of thing (read those who wish to have serious discussions with those who like to muzzle their opponent's voice without listening to any argument or analyzing it) combine together to restrict mails. Great indeed. What next is the Sarai reader-list planning? From taraprakash at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 18:50:16 2009 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (taraprakash) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 09:20:16 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed toprotect its religious minorities adequately References: <164430.1919.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4eab87870908162342g77e2db07rf10a9ae411df8ada@mail.gmail.com> <177F64CB-0CAF-4AFF-903A-F68778F7D7BB@sarai.net> Message-ID: Just to add a bit, Congress was the biggest contributor to the rise of BJP. Rajeev gandhi government did overturn the court verdict with the help of a new law. We should also remember Rajeev Gandhi also put the foundation stone at in Ayodhya and raked up a nonissue (vote bank politics). Those who never stop abusing the left parties and never stop to endorse BJP at any cost should be reminded that it is after this BJP and communist parties of India came together to support a "National Front" government. They will probably come back again very soon. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeebesh" To: "Sarai Reader-list" Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 3:14 AM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed toprotect its religious minorities adequately > dear Murali, > > You make a mistake. This was the decision by the government in power > then that gave rise to BJP. It was from here that BJP found it itself > again relevant after the disaster showing in 1984 election and made > stronger claim to power over the next decade. > > Events moves in directions that are not anticipated at it's origin. > > warmly > jeebesh > > On 17-Aug-09, at 12:12 PM, Murali V wrote: > >> A -piece-ment for Vote bank!!! >> >> On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 11:16 AM, A.K. Malik >> wrote: >>> Hi Rakesh, >>> A little correction please.It was not the triple talaq to >>> Shah Bano which was under dispute but maintenance to a divorced >>> woman under Sec 125 CrPC . The Supreme Court, disregarding what the >>> Muslim Personal Law provides,directed her husband to pay alimony to >>> his divorced wife.But this decision of the SC was made a nullity by >>> enactment of a law by Rajiv Gandhi govt.under pressure from Muslim >>> community. >>> Regards, >>> >>> (A.K.MALIK) >>> >>> >>> --- On Sat, 8/15/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: >>> >>>> From: Rakesh Iyer >>>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have >>>> failed to protect its religious minorities adequately >>>> To: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" >>>> Cc: "sarai list" , "Jeebesh" >>> > >>>> Date: Saturday, August 15, 2009, 6:15 PM >>>> Dear Shuddha,Murali and all >>>> >>>> There is one more country which is not mentioned in that >>>> list. The country >>>> which celebrates its' 62nd independence day, today, on 15th >>>> August 2009, >>>> whose first PM had spoken of 'Tryst with destiny' on 15th >>>> August 1947, and >>>> which has the third largest no. of Muslims in the world >>>> (after Indonesia and >>>> Pakistan). >>>> >>>> It's not an Islamic state (and the SC in legality did >>>> overrule the Hadith >>>> and the Sharia by not allowing the triple talaq in the case >>>> of Shah Bano) >>>> >>>> Please do remember this country, even though it's not a >>>> Muslim majority >>>> country, because of the no. of Muslims living in it in >>>> sheer nos. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Rakesh >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the >>>> city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net >>>> with subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: >>> >>> >>> >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 17 20:13:45 2009 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] a letter to Sarai admin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4097.36365.qm@web51409.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Rakesh No one is talking about muzzling your voice. I never blamed you directly nor am I talking about any "high" or intellectual conversation. My problem is not the quality but the quantity of posts. (even the deletion and filtering takes up some energy and time). And if one were follow the "back-door" technique to muzzle you (as you mention), one won't have posted the message to all. Instead one would call Monica and say "psst... can you block that guy". You know, when someone says "you have the right to unsubscribe if you don't like my posts but I will continue to post", it sounds like my nasty neighbour who built yet another illegal floor on top of his house last month and blocked all of the sunshine coming into my courtyard. When I complaint, he shrugged "I haven't stopped you from building another floor on your house and go further up to catch your sunshine if you want..." cheers Yousuf --- On Mon, 8/17/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > From: Rakesh Iyer > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] a letter to Sarai admin > To: "Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi" > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net, pkray11 at gmail.com > Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 6:49 PM > Dear all > > Thinking for the past 3 hours, I have come to the > conclusion that it's > strange enough that the very idea of muzzling of freedom of > speech is now > being suggested, which is highly atrocious. I can > understand the > frustrations of some who feel the forum has now become one > for personal > attacks, and to the extent I have been responsible I feel > sad and determined > not to repeat it again. > > But the freedom to read a mail or not rests with the person > himself. > Similarly, the freedom to be subscribed to a forum or not > also lies with the > individual concerned. I don't have the right to take that > freedom from an > individual. But then I too do have the right to enjoy those > freedoms (so > also the freedom to post and discuss issues). > > This exercise seems to be an imposition of the will of the > forum members > (because they don't see serious discussions and want them, > though when given > the right to participate, they prefer to just listen, > through a back-door > method (from the moderator), to restrict the posts > concerned. While I agree > that some amount of moderation is essential and personal > attacks shouldn't > take place (hence my conduct has been wrong to some > extent), I don't agree > with this imposition of will to restrict freedoms, > specifically when those > are important for discussion in a better way. > > There happens a lot of useless talk in the country using > the very same > freedom of speech, in our day to day lives, but I have > never seen or heard > anyone ask for imposition of restrictions on the freedom of > speech on our > politicians, our bureaucrats, our media and others to > ensure that 'serious > discussions' take place. It's the right of the public to > hear what they want > to hear, debate upon what they wish to debate, and they > have the right to > choose what they wish. And there are innumerable news > channels shouting > various things, but we have the right to choose what we > wish to see and > hear, and what we don't wish to. > > Just because the administration doesn't hear us doesn't > mean we do things to > impose our will upon them. That's equivalent to what the > Naxalites do, > except that they indulge in violence while members of the > forum may not. > > The idea of highlighting the responsibilities inherent in a > freedom, is very > different from imposing restriction. I would have been very > happy if someone > had highlighted the former (and some of you have). But to > advocate the > latter is wrong. > > *Therefore, I have a simple request from the administrator > of the > list/moderator of the list. While I still agree with the > self-imposition of > 3 articles per day (excluding RTF) from my side, in the > event of the > moderator imposing this regulation on the forum I request > the moderator to > kindly unsubscribe me from this list, because I can't be a > party to a > decision which I feel is unjust, and wrong. I have no > issues otherwise.* > > This is not a threat, nor is this a fight. It's a request, > and my protest > against those who feel restriction is important to ensure > 'non-monopolization' (I never stopped anyone from posting, > nor did anybody) > and 'serious discussions' (as if anybody stopped that from > happening as > well). > > And by the way, for this 'high level of discussion', how > many actually came > forward and put their views? Or do they think intellectuals > would come from > outside, and then put forward their views to have these > 'brilliant > discussions'? > > Regards > > Rakesh > > P.S: I remember having read that the Left and the Right > (read BJP) came > together to support the V.P.Singh Govt. I now have the > privilege of seeing a > similar kind of thing (read those who wish to have serious > discussions with > those who like to muzzle their opponent's voice without > listening to any > argument or analyzing it) combine together to restrict > mails. Great indeed. > What next is the Sarai reader-list planning? > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From indersalim at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 20:13:59 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (Inder Salim) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:13:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sunderban Diaries In-Reply-To: <39569EE7-6416-4426-B731-A99808569405@sarai.net> References: <39569EE7-6416-4426-B731-A99808569405@sarai.net> Message-ID: <47e122a70908170743w117c4432ia9563a184bcb2a6a@mail.gmail.com> http://pics.livejournal.com/indersalim/pic/000h54fd/ yes, the tiger would disappear and then .. sad On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 4:50 PM, Jeebesh wrote: > dear All, > > I am posting a text by a 10 years old. He is a friend's son. I liked > this dairy. The weird thing is that all that he sees and shares is > totally under threat. Maybe 20 to 25 years down the line the tiger > would have disappeared and water polo may not be a joke anymore. > > Sometimes the simple innocence can make us wonder what we are bring > into our world. > > love > jeebes > > Sunderban Diaries > >  25th May, 2008: Came to the Sunderbans today. At Goshaba Ghat, we > took a launch that took us to the resort where we were staying. We > were staying in a hut thatched with straw. We had lunch, fish curry > and rice (I hate fish but my father said we must eat what we were > given) and took another launch again to see a river. I saw an osprey > feasting on a snake. But sadly there were no crocodiles to be seen. I > stayed on the launch till 5 p.m. Then returned to the resort, had > dinner and went off to sleep. > >  26th May: I woke up in the morning at 6. We carried our breakfast to > the launch. I saw people fishing for little tiger prawns. There were > no crocodiles because it was too hot for them. Our guide told us that > in winter, the crocodiles came and sat on the banks in the sunlight. > Suddenly, a fin came out of the water. My father shouted, ‘Look a > Gangetic Dolphin.’ I was so excited that I almost fell into the water. > At six, we returned to the resort. We saw tiger palms where tigers > hide in the daytime. The trees have similar colours as the tiger skin > and they camouflage the animals. But alas, no tiger! > >  27th May: Today we decided to take the launch right into the > interiors of Sundarbans. There I saw the famous mangroves, the sundari > trees that give Sunderban its name. Mangroves are trees that breathe > with their roots, which go underground but come up again. They just > look like steel spikes except that they don’t come out of concrete but > mud! Some trees were standing in the middle of the water. I had > already seen the picture of a delta in a map but now for the first > time, I saw one in real life. > > Later, on a forest reserve base camp I saw a green tree snake…hissss! > We also saw some deer swimming and crossing the river. I saw a > crocodile at last! It was at least ten feet long and it was half > hidden in the water. It had big yellow eyes with slits. This place is > called Sudhanyakhali. Behind an embankment, some boys were playing > football. My father said when the embankments break, they will be > playing water polo. > > I remembered watching the water as our launch moved: it was covered > with oil and grease left behind by passing launches like ours. The > water was greenish brown and during low tide the silt caked our feet. > > > > Ritwik Saha > > Std VI, Springdales School, Pusa Road, Delhi. > > Age: 10 years 7 months. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 21:48:20 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:48:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Need web designer for The Cambodia Project Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jean Yao Posting for a friend: The Cambodia Project, Inc (CPI) (http://www.thecambodiaproject.org/) is an NGO that is working towards providing secondary education in rural Cambodia. We are currently working to start our pilot school in the Kep/Kampot region of Cambodia. Designs for the schools have been provided by Michiels Architecture & Partners and members of our team are currently in Cambodia procuring land for the construction of the main school. When finished, each school will provide education, health-care and vocational-training to around 1000 students and in a matter of 10 years, the "spill-over effect" will improve the lives of 100,000 rural Cambodians. In 1-2 years, we plan to replicate the model in India and other SEasian countries. We are in need of volunteers to help revamp the CPI website to make it look more professional and appealing to prospective donors and people wishing to learn more about the organization. This process would involve bringing a novel look-and-feel to the website****and implementing this design by the end of November. As a volunteer, you'll be working closely with another web-developer and interact with various senior members constantly. If interested, please contact Hemant Mohapatra ( hmohapatra at thecambodiaproject.org) for more information. CPI is the recipient of the Google Grant and was selected as the top-25 members project by American Express. We've front-paged twice on The Phnom Penh Post, and featured on Huffington Post, among others. --- Thank you so much, Jean **Maa Kaschid Du(h)khabhaag Bhavet** __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages| Files| Photos| Links| Database| Polls| Calendar MARKETPLACE Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their families, for the world and for each other [image: Yahoo! Groups] Change settings via the Web(Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest| Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity - 4 New Members Visit Your Group Yahoo! Groups Mom Power Discover doing more for your family Weight Management Group on Yahoo! Groups Join the challenge and lose weight. Hollywood kids in the spotlight Their moms share secrets . __,_._,___ From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Aug 18 00:37:51 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:07:51 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 16 In-Reply-To: <2A234EEA-7CD6-4276-8C4F-CAAA491929BD@sarai.net> References: <2A234EEA-7CD6-4276-8C4F-CAAA491929BD@sarai.net> Message-ID: <65be9bf40908171207t10a1c0b0w1aa59cd0497a41b4@mail.gmail.com> Dear Jeebesh, I suppose you have been responded to in this regard earlier. I think you suggestion is extremely pertinent and valid. My only concern, however, is this- I desire a modest informed public debate on the national identity card. For that to happen, a context needs to be generated. I believe my posts/forwards/fragmentary reflections provide this context. If not then it at least creates an impression, a provocation about a issue that I care about. So what is wrong in that? I do not understand your anxiety about getting a sense of the 'material'. Why are you so bothered about a blog anyways? Did you know that three blogs already exist on national identity card and national population register? I wonder how many people on this list are even aware of its existence. I don't think, I need to go into more in this regard and I do not think that I need to be told by ANYONE on this list what I should be doing with my material, which is of course, now as public as it can get. However, if in future, I think that a blog or any such thing needs to be put up, then may I most kindly suggest, that I will do it, at my own pleasure AND in this regard if I need any creative solutions then, who knows, I may even write to you a personal mail to formally solicit your comments. I do understand that some members on this list may not have been too comfortable with either the range or the depth of issues related to identity cards and I do apologize for flooding their mail boxes with TWO posts every day. However I do believe that I am not selling ice candy here that I need to carefully wrap my product to cater to specific target audience keeping into consideration the needs and wants of prospective and real consumers. I just present my views keeping in mind two words- Dear- All- This -all- is a totally un-distinguishable entity. And I certainly do not take any responsibility of formulating my views to the taste to each and every member. It is up to an individual subscriber to do what they want to do with the material. I hope I have made my self absolutely clear and I certainly do not want to see any more of -please do this with your material -please do that with your material- mails from you Jeebesh. I am sorry!!! Sarai reader list was once a space where any idea could be bought to common community of people who had the decency to show a minimum amount of concern. I am really uncomfortable with this ongoing schizophrenia of some list members to, bamboozle other list members, at one level, who are seriously, diligently interested in the idea of a public debate to take their content off list, at the same time connecting with the list through a totally bizzare notion like RSS feeds and on the other hand continue diffidently with a dogmatic persistence and belief in freedom of speech, which sometimes equals to dogmatic insistence of hard core Jehadis+ hard core RSS types put together and allow a huge volume of mail traffic which should be there but in much more disciplined, systematic fashion. Warm regards Taha From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Aug 18 07:31:24 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 03:01:24 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Govt scouting for e-passport component suppliers - 200 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908171901h162b1cd2v995979835d65feb7@mail.gmail.com> Dear All Tills are about to start clinking. The business of I-cards, e-passports and so on is now taking a serious turn. As the story below indicates the search for component suppliers has begun. Huge amounts of Public money is going to be re-distributed in favor of a small vendor driven network for the sake of garnering information and efficiency. NXP, TCS, HCL are gearing up for the big race to the finish. My Sincere apologies to all those people who think that this type of mails mean flooding mail boxes with inanity, sincere regrets to all those who think that such mails may get buried in the debris of reader-list and my sincere thanks to particularly all those of you who have taken an effort to personally mail me, sometimes sporadically and at times not so sporadically, in the past months and their expressing shock, surprise and concern with the way in which Government of India is carrying out a seemingly irresponsible exercise in a colossal redistribution of public funds. Warm regards Taha http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2009/08/17/stories/2009081751410100.htm Govt scouting for e-passport component suppliers Adith Charlie Sagar Bhadra Mumbai, Aug. 16 The Union Government has kick-started the process of scouting for suppliers of electronic components for another 20 million e-passports, in a move that could bring fresh business for smart card vendors, chip makers and IT firms. This is part of the Government’s mandate to extend the e-passport programme beyond diplomats and Government officials to the ‘aam aadmi’ starting September. Over the next 24 months, the Security Printing & Minting Corporation (SPMC) of India expects to procure 20 million electronic contacts-less inlays along with its operating software for the production of e-passports. According to the tender document, the inlays have to be electronic contact-less type according to SCOSTA-CL requirements. (SCOSTA is a smart card operating system standard as developed by the National Informatics Centre.) The inlay is a laminate consisting of a core containing the RFID chip and antenna, with outer layers of sheet material. Each inlay that the Government is going to procure is expected to cost between Rs 10 and Rs 60 depending on the sophistication required, says Mr Sudhir Rao, Managing Director, Bartronics India, a leading smartcard maker. Based on the 20 million inlays required for the first batch, the SPMC tender would be valued around Rs 60 crore, he said. Apart from Bartronics, Germany-based Sagem Orga (through Smart Chip India) and Amsterdam-based Gemalto are expected to bid for the project. Mr Alok Mukherjee, Director- Finance of Smart Chip India, is of the view that the entire process of deployment of the inlays would begin by next fiscal. At present, a passport contains facial imprint, but an e-passport will have all the personal details, including fingerprints, of the person carrying it. The pilot e-passport Programme was started on June 25 last year and the first 10,000 passports were issued to diplomats and senior Government officials. However, the most important component in an e-passport is the RFID chip, which contains the biometric data of the passport holder. The Ministry of External Affairs is expected to come out with a ‘multi-million’ dollar tender for the same within the next one month, Ministry sources told Business Line. Chip makers NXP Semiconductors and Infineon (a Siemens company) are expected to bid for this project. “We have already made presentations to the Government authorities; our chips are fully certified to work on the local SCOSTA standards. We have deputed one architect level person from India who is working to ensure that our chips are interoperable,” said Mr Neeraj Paliwal, Vice-President, SoC Design, NXP. He is of the view that the country could have around 200 million e-passports in the next 3-5 years. Experts believe that the IT infrastructure required for operating the e-passport system – which includes electronically linking various e-passport terminals – would be anywhere upwards of Rs 300 crore. This would provide significant opportunities for firms such as Tata Consultancy Services, HCL and Wipro. From chintangirishmodi at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 09:22:28 2009 From: chintangirishmodi at gmail.com (Chintan) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:22:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Article on De-schooling In-Reply-To: <6292b08b0908172034oaaa244aud66efca30cd9a365@mail.gmail.com> References: <6292b08b0908172034oaaa244aud66efca30cd9a365@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Chandni Parekh http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/living/learn-as-you-will Excerpts from Shubhangi Swarup's article: Kanku’s parents are among the few in India who have been inspired by the philosophy of ‘de-schooling’, which aims at de-institutionalising the individual. Manish says the factory schooling system works to suppress all uniqueness in children and mass-produces humans fit to be recruited by a world that is run on deeply flawed economic beliefs. Manish looks at the natural wisdom and unbridled imagination of children as a fragile natural asset on which contemporary schooling superimposes the mediocrity of uniform thought. “Learning is as natural as breathing, it happens as we go along,” says Chandresh, a family friend and parent of two vibrant kids who are undergoing de-schooling. “A school unnaturally divides our day into learning time, food time, playing time." An American citizen, Manish Jain lived the NRI dream before moving to India. With a masters degree from Harvard University in education planning, policy and media under his sleeve, he went on to work on Wall Street as an investment banker. He also worked in Washington on interna­tional education policy. Eleven years ago, Manish decided to reverse the family’s migration. “I survived the horrors of suburban American life, the high point of which was going shopping to malls and drinking with friends. It was lonely. It was alienating. To live in a flat, too scared to talk to strangers.” Manish returned to his native Udaipur to set up Shikshantar, where new ways of education are explored. Manish, who could watch seven to eight hours of TV every day and drink gallons of Coca-Cola, has now given up even tea. Although de-schooling is a concept introduced by American thinker Ivan Illich, for Manish, de-schooling is similar to Mahatma Gandhi’s concept of Swaraj. “Very few know that Gandhi was also a great critic of modern society,” he says. ----- More about Shikshantar here: http://chandni.posterous.com/shikshantars-swaraj-university From monica at sarai.net Tue Aug 18 10:49:46 2009 From: monica at sarai.net (Monica Narula) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:49:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] a letter to Sarai admin In-Reply-To: References: <748406.60843.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: dear Yousuf, Srikanth, Rakesh, Geeta, all I agree that we need to find a technological solution to limit the number of posting of a person to 3 or 4 in a day. That will ease the traffic. (although shifting a list/server to a new situation is not something that can be done easily - we are looking into it) But the larger question that begs some discussion is that commitment to one's ideas, opinions and thoughts is not being matched by people with a similar commitment to the idea of common grounds, or respect for the platform in which people are participating. This lack of thought about "common ground" is what makes the problem very difficult to solve merely by technological means. The question is posed mostly as one of "freedom of speech". Its an easy stance as it speaks in simple binary. I would say that it can be reformulated - and reflecting much more of the complexity of the kind of writing on the list - as one of "making common ground". It is the shape, texture and density of this common ground that needs some thought and investigation. It is an open subscriber list. Anybody can join and post. Its only a question of having a valid email address... There are many on the reader-list who would have found it difficult to make a space on their own and invite others. A lack of reflection on what would they do if they had to build themselves and then invite others creates a problem of how they participate and intervene. We in the middle class are known in society as people who will throw garbage on the street if it keeps the house clean. This percolates deep in our overall way of doing things. In my work I visit many workshops and production sites. What amazes me is how recklessly these places keep materials and instruments. The people who own it are there for 18 hours a day. They beautify their houses with great care yet keep the place where they spend majority of their time with utter callousness. This needs to be thought through and engaged with. Reprimands, code of conduct, protocols and technological fixes are mere aides. (and except for the technical fix, everything else has been tried already) They can't solve the problem. List Admin Monica Narula Raqs Media Collective Sarai-CSDS www.raqsmediacollective.net www.sarai.net On 17-Aug-09, at 11:08 AM, Srikanth Thunga wrote: > I completely agree with Yousuf. > > I have a suggestion. Move sarai to ning network or something > similar. I am a > member of open anthropology group on ning and I have found it to be > very > versatile which makes a lot more sense. Please check > http://openanthcoop.ning.com/ > > I have a little bit of experience on ning & I can help the owner to > pilot > it/test it etc... > > Keith Hart, who was the creator of OAC on ning is aware of this > group I got > enticed to join this only on suggestion of Arvind and Keith Hart on > OAC. > > In my opinion, sarai still seems to be on decade old technologies of > mailing > lists when internet has improved to a much mature platform. > > I had mailed the owner once a while ago, but never got a response. I > wanted > to suggest a more mature platform to the owner as I was overwhelmed > by the > number of emails I get everyday on this mailing list. I am still not > used to > reading all emails on sarai and there are no alternate ways of > looking at > the information. I happened to read this email also by chance only. > > Regards, > -Srikanth > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Yousuf wrote: > >> Dear Sarai readers, especially the admin >> We have discussed this a million times, but the habit of a few >> people to >> put the entire list (of 2000+ subscribers) on ransom by only >> discussing >> their favourite topics day-in and day-out doesn't seem to stop. I >> am not in >> favour of moderating or censorship (and I love freedom of speech), >> but those >> of us who post 40 emails a day should at least think about the >> excesses they >> are creating in the world. >> >> Sometime ago someone had suggested that each subscriber should be >> restricted to post a certain number of mails a day (maybe 2 or 4). >> Why can't >> we follow something like that. I wonder if the Sarai list has the >> technical >> options to automatically restrict people from posting in excess, but >> something needs to be done desperately. These days, whenever I have >> any >> conversations about Sarai among friends, everyone seems to have >> grown fed up >> with it - many are thinking of unsubscribing or already have. Simply >> deleting or ignoring the mails or applying filters is not enough. >> Because >> one usually is tempted to subject headers, and one opens the Sarai >> mails >> with a lot of expectation. But many a times, one gets disappointed >> to see a >> sort of personal chatting going on. >> >> Why are we doing this hara-kiri in the name of freedom of expression. >> >> Yousuf >> >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From sammillerdelhi at hotmail.com Tue Aug 18 11:08:18 2009 From: sammillerdelhi at hotmail.com (sam miller) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:08:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sam Miller on Sarai In-Reply-To: <949277.14625.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <949277.14625.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: mmm, Kshmendra - I've changed my mind since then, and Sarai has certainly changed. It has sadly become a platform for bigotry and curse-swapping. I'd now quite like to see a bit more post-modern jargon, and a lot less willy-waving. And yes - I strongly agree with the note Monica just sent - surely there has to be a greater emphasis on finding and investigating common ground, and, I would add, on collaboration. Sam > Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 02:26:02 -0700 > From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > To: reader-list at sarai.net > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Sam Miller on Sarai > > > "Many of these discussions are suffused with post-modern jargon, but usually they are worth the effort." > > > --- On Mon, 8/10/09, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: > > > From: Naeem Mohaiemen > Subject: [Reader-list] Sam Miller on Sarai > To: "sarai list" > Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 9:18 PM > > > On Sarai, excerpt from Sam Miller's book... > > In the basement of a modern building at the foot of the Ridge, ten > minutes from the site of Ludlow Castle, are the offices of an > organisation that calls itself ‘Sarai’. Anyone who asks the simple > question ‘What is Sarai?’ may not get such a simple answer. It is a > place, but it also an idea. Sarai is Delhi at its most modern, its > most virtual. It exists in a series of rooms in Civil Lines, but it > also orbits in cyber-space. According to its own publicity > literature, Sarai ‘encompasses an inter-disciplinary research > programme, a platform for critical reflection, a screening space, a > convivial context for online and offline conversations and a media > lab’. I have known about Sarai for several years, as an unashamed > lurker on its e-mail groups – receiving regular updates on a eclectic > range of subjects, often about Delhi, ranging from ‘the Culture of > Telephone Booths’, through ‘Society and the Soap Factory to ‘Locating > Sexuality through the eyes of Afghan and Burmese Refugee Women in > Delhi’. Many of these discussions are suffused with post-modern > jargon, but usually they are worth the effort. > > Sarai – the non-virtual part of it – consists of three rooms: a > private inner sanctum where individuals have their own workstations; a > glass-walled public access computer area (the media lab), and a large > meeting room with a café. No-one looked up when I walked in and sat > down, eavesdropping. There was a three-way discussion about French > philosophers (Foucault and de Certeau), a young man was retying his > pony tail as he watched cricket on a wall-mounted TV (not quakeproof – > a potentially lethal missile, I decided), and a young woman was > sitting at a table staring at her coffee mug as if it were an object > of worship. I interrupted her to ask for help getting access to the > Sarai online archive (I needed to find out more about Ludlow Castle). > She gave me a split-second look of exasperation, before getting to her > feet and handing me over to the resident computer expert. He took me > into the media lab (with only one of the eight computers free), sat me > down in front of a terminal and began logging me in. ‘Username: guest. > Password: guest. You do know Linux and Mozilla Firefox[1], don’t you?’ > ‘Er, yes - a little.’ I was lying. I suppose I was rather proud of > myself for having heard of them, and too embarrassed to admit that I > hadn’t ever used them. I knew that they were the main software > competition to Microsoft, and that they were, in some way that I > didn’t quite understand, alternative, democratic and trendy. He’d put > me on to a local area network where I could now access the archive. I > entered ‘Ludlow Castle Delhi’ in the search box, and the entire screen > went white. So did I. My usual solution, ‘Ctrl-Alt-Del’, had no > effect, I panicked. And looking surreptitiously around, knowing I was > doing something very naughty, I pressed my finger down hard on the > on/off key. With a tell-tale squeak the screen went blank. I looked > around again; no-one was staring with disdain in my direction. I’d > escaped detection, and thirty seconds later I turned the computer on > again, to a profusion of messages about how sinful I’d been to turn it > off improperly. > > [1] Mozilla Firefox – Netscape’s successor and the main rival to > Explorer as an Internet browser. A firefox is a red panda still found > in India. Mozilla is a contraction of Mosaic Killer (Mosaic was the > first widely used Internet browser). Linux is an open-source operating > system, invented by Linus Thorvalds, a rival to MS Windows and Apple’s > Mac OS. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Sports, news, fashion and entertainment. Pick it all up in a package called MSN India http://in.msn.com From jeebesh at sarai.net Tue Aug 18 11:28:57 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:28:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sam Miller on Sarai In-Reply-To: References: <949277.14625.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D5280C9-A571-4F74-99B5-E7BFA6A4C86A@sarai.net> Confusion. Confusion. Sarai hosts many lists. This list is only one of them. So comments on the content of this list should be limited to this list only. Not all of Sarai. And further Sarai is not a assemblage of lists. It has many offline practices. And thanks monica for your reminder to think beyond freedom of speech binaries. warmly jeebesh On 18-Aug-09, at 11:08 AM, sam miller wrote: > > mmm, Kshmendra - I've changed my mind since then, and Sarai has > certainly changed. It has sadly become a platform for bigotry and > curse-swapping. > > > > I'd now quite like to see a bit more post-modern jargon, and a lot > less willy-waving. > > > > And yes - I strongly agree with the note Monica just sent - surely > there has to be a greater emphasis on finding and investigating > common ground, and, I would add, on collaboration. > > > > Sam > > > > >> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 02:26:02 -0700 >> From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com >> To: reader-list at sarai.net >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Sam Miller on Sarai >> >> >> "Many of these discussions are suffused with post-modern jargon, >> but usually they are worth the effort." >> >> >> --- On Mon, 8/10/09, Naeem Mohaiemen >> wrote: >> >> >> From: Naeem Mohaiemen >> Subject: [Reader-list] Sam Miller on Sarai >> To: "sarai list" >> Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 9:18 PM >> >> >> On Sarai, excerpt from Sam Miller's book... >> >> In the basement of a modern building at the foot of the Ridge, ten >> minutes from the site of Ludlow Castle, are the offices of an >> organisation that calls itself ‘Sarai’. Anyone who asks the simple >> question ‘What is Sarai?’ may not get such a simple answer. It is a >> place, but it also an idea. Sarai is Delhi at its most modern, its >> most virtual. It exists in a series of rooms in Civil Lines, but it >> also orbits in cyber-space. According to its own publicity >> literature, Sarai ‘encompasses an inter-disciplinary research >> programme, a platform for critical reflection, a screening space, a >> convivial context for online and offline conversations and a media >> lab’. I have known about Sarai for several years, as an unashamed >> lurker on its e-mail groups – receiving regular updates on a eclectic >> range of subjects, often about Delhi, ranging from ‘the Culture of >> Telephone Booths’, through ‘Society and the Soap Factory to ‘Locating >> Sexuality through the eyes of Afghan and Burmese Refugee Women in >> Delhi’. Many of these discussions are suffused with post-modern >> jargon, but usually they are worth the effort. >> >> Sarai – the non-virtual part of it – consists of three rooms: a >> private inner sanctum where individuals have their own >> workstations; a >> glass-walled public access computer area (the media lab), and a large >> meeting room with a café. No-one looked up when I walked in and sat >> down, eavesdropping. There was a three-way discussion about French >> philosophers (Foucault and de Certeau), a young man was retying his >> pony tail as he watched cricket on a wall-mounted TV (not >> quakeproof – >> a potentially lethal missile, I decided), and a young woman was >> sitting at a table staring at her coffee mug as if it were an object >> of worship. I interrupted her to ask for help getting access to the >> Sarai online archive (I needed to find out more about Ludlow Castle). >> She gave me a split-second look of exasperation, before getting to >> her >> feet and handing me over to the resident computer expert. He took me >> into the media lab (with only one of the eight computers free), sat >> me >> down in front of a terminal and began logging me in. ‘Username: >> guest. >> Password: guest. You do know Linux and Mozilla Firefox[1], don’t >> you?’ >> ‘Er, yes - a little.’ I was lying. I suppose I was rather proud of >> myself for having heard of them, and too embarrassed to admit that I >> hadn’t ever used them. I knew that they were the main software >> competition to Microsoft, and that they were, in some way that I >> didn’t quite understand, alternative, democratic and trendy. He’d put >> me on to a local area network where I could now access the archive. I >> entered ‘Ludlow Castle Delhi’ in the search box, and the entire >> screen >> went white. So did I. My usual solution, ‘Ctrl-Alt-Del’, had no >> effect, I panicked. And looking surreptitiously around, knowing I was >> doing something very naughty, I pressed my finger down hard on the >> on/off key. With a tell-tale squeak the screen went blank. I looked >> around again; no-one was staring with disdain in my direction. I’d >> escaped detection, and thirty seconds later I turned the computer on >> again, to a profusion of messages about how sinful I’d been to turn >> it >> off improperly. >> >> [1] Mozilla Firefox – Netscape’s successor and the main rival to >> Explorer as an Internet browser. A firefox is a red panda still found >> in India. Mozilla is a contraction of Mosaic Killer (Mosaic was the >> first widely used Internet browser). Linux is an open-source >> operating >> system, invented by Linus Thorvalds, a rival to MS Windows and >> Apple’s >> Mac OS. >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Sports, news, fashion and entertainment. Pick it all up in a package > called MSN India > http://in.msn.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From thungas at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 11:29:10 2009 From: thungas at gmail.com (Srikanth Thunga) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:29:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] a letter to Sarai admin In-Reply-To: References: <748406.60843.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Monica & Others, I don't think the number of postings should be limited at all! I think its bad for a community to limit postings. The more ideas flow & get generated, the better it is... The original ideas get solidified when countered with non sustainable ideas. So, we should never limit anything, especially the flow of ideas & intellectual exchange. My articulation of the problem: (similar to yours but from a solution perspective) 1. The range of topics is so vast that people with niche interests are not able to find quality content related to their interests. 2. The real solution should be to divide the topics in such logical ways that each person has the flexibility to follow and respond to things that interests him/her the most. Need of the hour: Better management of Information flow on this community. For example, in another community that I am active on, a number of sub topics were created and only people who were interested in that topic got regular updates. It's kind of like orkut communities or facebook groups or google groups but a much more mature platform where discussion is visible for everyone but emails are only for people who like to be up to date in particular topics/sections of topics. The best part is that the whole group is community driven on free applications found online. (ning) It will also take off some of the headaches of administration of the backend of the mailing list/website. Regarding difficulty, I don't think it is very very difficult to move it. I wish I was in Delhi to be able to help. Do find out if anyone has any experience on setting up ning networks in your technology circle. I saw 2 groups on ning from delhi: arch for humanity(http://afhnewdelhi.ning.com/) and occ delhi( http://occdelhi.ning.com/) You can probably write to admin of those groups to find out the difficulty level etc... Believe me, it is much much simple :) Regards, -Srikanth On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 10:49 AM, Monica Narula wrote: > dear Yousuf, Srikanth, Rakesh, Geeta, all > > I agree that we need to find a technological solution to limit the > number of posting of a person to 3 or 4 in a day. That will ease the > traffic. (although shifting a list/server to a new situation is not > something that can be done easily - we are looking into it) > > But the larger question that begs some discussion is that commitment > to one's ideas, opinions and thoughts is not being matched by people > with a similar commitment to the idea of common grounds, or respect > for the platform in which people are participating. This lack of > thought about "common ground" is what makes the problem very difficult > to solve merely by technological means. > > The question is posed mostly as one of "freedom of speech". Its an > easy stance as it speaks in simple binary. > I would say that it can be reformulated - and reflecting much more of > the complexity of the kind of writing on the list - as one of "making > common ground". It is the shape, texture and density of this common > ground that needs some thought and investigation. It is an open > subscriber list. Anybody can join and post. Its only a question of > having a valid email address... > There are many on the reader-list who would have found it difficult to > make a space on their own and invite others. A lack of reflection on > what would they do if they had to build themselves and then invite > others creates a problem of how they participate and intervene. > > We in the middle class are known in society as people who will throw > garbage on the street if it keeps the house clean. This percolates > deep in our overall way of doing things. In my work I visit many > workshops and production sites. What amazes me is how recklessly these > places keep materials and instruments. The people who own it are there > for 18 hours a day. They beautify their houses with great care yet > keep the place where they spend majority of their time with utter > callousness. > > This needs to be thought through and engaged with. Reprimands, code of > conduct, protocols and technological fixes are mere aides. (and except > for the technical fix, everything else has been tried already) They > can't solve the problem. > > List Admin > > Monica Narula > Raqs Media Collective > Sarai-CSDS > www.raqsmediacollective.net > www.sarai.net > > > > On 17-Aug-09, at 11:08 AM, Srikanth Thunga wrote: > > > I completely agree with Yousuf. > > > > I have a suggestion. Move sarai to ning network or something > > similar. I am a > > member of open anthropology group on ning and I have found it to be > > very > > versatile which makes a lot more sense. Please check > > http://openanthcoop.ning.com/ > > > > I have a little bit of experience on ning & I can help the owner to > > pilot > > it/test it etc... > > > > Keith Hart, who was the creator of OAC on ning is aware of this > > group I got > > enticed to join this only on suggestion of Arvind and Keith Hart on > > OAC. > > > > In my opinion, sarai still seems to be on decade old technologies of > > mailing > > lists when internet has improved to a much mature platform. > > > > I had mailed the owner once a while ago, but never got a response. I > > wanted > > to suggest a more mature platform to the owner as I was overwhelmed > > by the > > number of emails I get everyday on this mailing list. I am still not > > used to > > reading all emails on sarai and there are no alternate ways of > > looking at > > the information. I happened to read this email also by chance only. > > > > Regards, > > -Srikanth > > > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Yousuf wrote: > > > >> Dear Sarai readers, especially the admin > >> We have discussed this a million times, but the habit of a few > >> people to > >> put the entire list (of 2000+ subscribers) on ransom by only > >> discussing > >> their favourite topics day-in and day-out doesn't seem to stop. I > >> am not in > >> favour of moderating or censorship (and I love freedom of speech), > >> but those > >> of us who post 40 emails a day should at least think about the > >> excesses they > >> are creating in the world. > >> > >> Sometime ago someone had suggested that each subscriber should be > >> restricted to post a certain number of mails a day (maybe 2 or 4). > >> Why can't > >> we follow something like that. I wonder if the Sarai list has the > >> technical > >> options to automatically restrict people from posting in excess, but > >> something needs to be done desperately. These days, whenever I have > >> any > >> conversations about Sarai among friends, everyone seems to have > >> grown fed up > >> with it - many are thinking of unsubscribing or already have. Simply > >> deleting or ignoring the mails or applying filters is not enough. > >> Because > >> one usually is tempted to subject headers, and one opens the Sarai > >> mails > >> with a lot of expectation. But many a times, one gets disappointed > >> to see a > >> sort of personal chatting going on. > >> > >> Why are we doing this hara-kiri in the name of freedom of expression. > >> > >> Yousuf > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From jeebesh at sarai.net Tue Aug 18 11:36:42 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:36:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 16 In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40908171207t10a1c0b0w1aa59cd0497a41b4@mail.gmail.com> References: <2A234EEA-7CD6-4276-8C4F-CAAA491929BD@sarai.net> <65be9bf40908171207t10a1c0b0w1aa59cd0497a41b4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B7A45AC-2476-4960-9116-DB2504F8A945@sarai.net> dear All, http://kafila.org/2009/08/17/expert-committee-on-metadata-and-data-standards-for-personal-identification/ for the data tables that will/may become part of national identification number/card that Taha had mailed a few days back. Please pass this link around and build the comment and analysis sediment on it. This list will hopefully benefit from it. On 18-Aug-09, at 12:37 AM, Taha Mehmood wrote: > I hope I have made my self absolutely clear and I certainly do not > want to see any more of -please do this with your material -please do > that with your material- mails from you Jeebesh. I am sorry!!! Interesting. Why you do you think you can forbid me from keep saying to you this? Strange logic. You keep posting, but i can as a subscriber keep telling you what i feel will be better. Why be so self righteous about it.? Anyway, my mail was to Rakesh not to you. So why think i was writing to you.? Strange. A little less preciousness will help.:) warmly jeebesh From ravig64 at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 11:40:39 2009 From: ravig64 at gmail.com (Ravi Agarwal) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:40:39 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Sam Miller on Sarai In-Reply-To: <4D5280C9-A571-4F74-99B5-E7BFA6A4C86A@sarai.net> References: <949277.14625.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4D5280C9-A571-4F74-99B5-E7BFA6A4C86A@sarai.net> Message-ID: I agree jeebesh, however the reader list is a very important public face of sarai. I think we need to pay heed to the comments for that reason alone. For the danger that this conversation is flagging off - making less visible the larger important work. best ravi On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Jeebesh wrote: > Confusion. Confusion. > > Sarai hosts many lists. This list is only one of them. > > So comments on the content of this list should be limited to this list > only. Not all of Sarai. > > And further Sarai is not a assemblage of lists. It has many offline > practices. > > And thanks monica for your reminder to think beyond freedom of speech > binaries. > > warmly > jeebesh > On 18-Aug-09, at 11:08 AM, sam miller wrote: > > > > > mmm, Kshmendra - I've changed my mind since then, and Sarai has > > certainly changed. It has sadly become a platform for bigotry and > > curse-swapping. > > > > > > > > I'd now quite like to see a bit more post-modern jargon, and a lot > > less willy-waving. > > > > > > > > And yes - I strongly agree with the note Monica just sent - surely > > there has to be a greater emphasis on finding and investigating > > common ground, and, I would add, on collaboration. > > > > > > > > Sam > > > > > > > > > >> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 02:26:02 -0700 > >> From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > >> To: reader-list at sarai.net > >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Sam Miller on Sarai > >> > >> > >> "Many of these discussions are suffused with post-modern jargon, > >> but usually they are worth the effort." > >> > >> > >> --- On Mon, 8/10/09, Naeem Mohaiemen > >> wrote: > >> > >> > >> From: Naeem Mohaiemen > >> Subject: [Reader-list] Sam Miller on Sarai > >> To: "sarai list" > >> Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 9:18 PM > >> > >> > >> On Sarai, excerpt from Sam Miller's book... > >> > >> In the basement of a modern building at the foot of the Ridge, ten > >> minutes from the site of Ludlow Castle, are the offices of an > >> organisation that calls itself ‘Sarai’. Anyone who asks the simple > >> question ‘What is Sarai?’ may not get such a simple answer. It is a > >> place, but it also an idea. Sarai is Delhi at its most modern, its > >> most virtual. It exists in a series of rooms in Civil Lines, but it > >> also orbits in cyber-space. According to its own publicity > >> literature, Sarai ‘encompasses an inter-disciplinary research > >> programme, a platform for critical reflection, a screening space, a > >> convivial context for online and offline conversations and a media > >> lab’. I have known about Sarai for several years, as an unashamed > >> lurker on its e-mail groups – receiving regular updates on a eclectic > >> range of subjects, often about Delhi, ranging from ‘the Culture of > >> Telephone Booths’, through ‘Society and the Soap Factory to ‘Locating > >> Sexuality through the eyes of Afghan and Burmese Refugee Women in > >> Delhi’. Many of these discussions are suffused with post-modern > >> jargon, but usually they are worth the effort. > >> > >> Sarai – the non-virtual part of it – consists of three rooms: a > >> private inner sanctum where individuals have their own > >> workstations; a > >> glass-walled public access computer area (the media lab), and a large > >> meeting room with a café. No-one looked up when I walked in and sat > >> down, eavesdropping. There was a three-way discussion about French > >> philosophers (Foucault and de Certeau), a young man was retying his > >> pony tail as he watched cricket on a wall-mounted TV (not > >> quakeproof – > >> a potentially lethal missile, I decided), and a young woman was > >> sitting at a table staring at her coffee mug as if it were an object > >> of worship. I interrupted her to ask for help getting access to the > >> Sarai online archive (I needed to find out more about Ludlow Castle). > >> She gave me a split-second look of exasperation, before getting to > >> her > >> feet and handing me over to the resident computer expert. He took me > >> into the media lab (with only one of the eight computers free), sat > >> me > >> down in front of a terminal and began logging me in. ‘Username: > >> guest. > >> Password: guest. You do know Linux and Mozilla Firefox[1], don’t > >> you?’ > >> ‘Er, yes - a little.’ I was lying. I suppose I was rather proud of > >> myself for having heard of them, and too embarrassed to admit that I > >> hadn’t ever used them. I knew that they were the main software > >> competition to Microsoft, and that they were, in some way that I > >> didn’t quite understand, alternative, democratic and trendy. He’d put > >> me on to a local area network where I could now access the archive. I > >> entered ‘Ludlow Castle Delhi’ in the search box, and the entire > >> screen > >> went white. So did I. My usual solution, ‘Ctrl-Alt-Del’, had no > >> effect, I panicked. And looking surreptitiously around, knowing I was > >> doing something very naughty, I pressed my finger down hard on the > >> on/off key. With a tell-tale squeak the screen went blank. I looked > >> around again; no-one was staring with disdain in my direction. I’d > >> escaped detection, and thirty seconds later I turned the computer on > >> again, to a profusion of messages about how sinful I’d been to turn > >> it > >> off improperly. > >> > >> [1] Mozilla Firefox – Netscape’s successor and the main rival to > >> Explorer as an Internet browser. A firefox is a red panda still found > >> in India. Mozilla is a contraction of Mosaic Killer (Mosaic was the > >> first widely used Internet browser). Linux is an open-source > >> operating > >> system, invented by Linus Thorvalds, a rival to MS Windows and > >> Apple’s > >> Mac OS. > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > >> > >> > >> > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Sports, news, fashion and entertainment. Pick it all up in a package > > called MSN India > > http://in.msn.com > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From iram at sarai.net Tue Aug 18 12:28:50 2009 From: iram at sarai.net (Iram Ghufran) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:28:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] A Talk and a Film on the Enigmatic Figure of the Courtesan@JNU Message-ID: <4A8A512A.1050904@sarai.net> School of Arts and Aesthetics Jawaharlal Nehru University presents A Talk and a Film on the Enigmatic Figure of the Courtesan on Friday 21st August, 2009 3.30 pm : Katherine Butler Brown will speak on “The Courtesan Tale: female performers, reality and rhetoric in Mughal historical chronicles” 4.30 pm Saba Dewan will screen her film The Other song and will be present to discuss her film. At the SAA Auditorium Dr. Katherine Butler Brown is a cultural historian and ethnomusicologist at King’s College, London University. Saba Dewan is an Independent documentary filmmaker based in Delhi. Her films have focused on gender, sexuality and culture. From c.anupam at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 12:24:20 2009 From: c.anupam at gmail.com (anupam chakravartty) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:24:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The art of not writing Message-ID: <341380d00908172354i45814f6dh4169d34e3e428a17@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, A brilliant take on the freedom of expression: http://www.thehoot.org/web/home/story.php?storyid=3783&pg=1&mod=1§ionId=22§ionname=MEDIA%20AND%20CONFLICT&valid=true Excerpts from "The art of not writing" by Subhranshu Chowdhury: “How much salary do you get,” I asked him. “I do not get a salary,” he replied. “Oh, so how do you earn a living?” “By not writing,” was the answer. Noting my surprise, he clarified. “Journalism here is the art of not writing,” he said. “I earn around Rs 5,000 every month by not writing.” thanks anupam From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 13:48:59 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:48:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] a letter to Sarai admin In-Reply-To: References: <748406.60843.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear all My response: 1) @ Monica Ji: I do not agree that there should be a technological fix to the problem, unless there's a problem of management of traffic which ensures posts being put up are not able to appear in mails as promptly as they should (or currently are). This is a very good attack on 'freedom of speech' itself. Infact, even the protocols and the code of conduct must ideally be based on a public discussion itself, rather than enforcing of certain individuals. On the issue of common grounds, I accept that there should be a common ground to understand. But this understanding can't and shouldn't be forced on individuals again. This understanding can improve in itself again through public discussions and a conduct on self, otherwise Sarai will aptly follow the saying 'Respect is always demanded, not commanded'. Forcible measures like stopping posts are not going to necessarily improve the respect individuals have for each other, as you yourself said. Therefore, I agree that if necessary let's have a debate on codes of conduct as well as some additional rules to be formulated if required. And yes, if something still goes wrong, then censure should be the last method to resort to. And it should be used with utmost care. And I have an additional reason as well to put up posts as well (the RTF ones and others I quote from articles). I believe that as human beings, we should be concerned about the plight of those who suffer from poverty, poor health, malnutrition, hunger, deprivation, the dynamics of inequality, wars, destitution, old age, lack of employment etc. and so on. All such problems have two dimensions: the physical aspect of how a person can grow weak in health, become disabled, not able to earn well, not get educated etc., and the mental aspect of how a person can lose his/her self-esteem, lose the confidence in oneself, be unsure, unhappy and unsafe as well etc. I agree it's not a duty of all to be concerned about these issues. But I would find it terrible and appalling if people were to say that RTF articles (or any such articles) should not be posted because we find it too much to receive 10 mails a day (or 40 mails a day). That shows our level of concern for individuals and other human beings. I again say people have the right not to be concerned about these issues at all. They may be happy, have a great life, enjoying great comforts, indulging in Page-3 parties and thinking about issues very narrowly like equating saving the environment to saving the tiger. And I agree that too is a part of 'real' India. But there are other facets to it, those which could be ended if all of us show some concern and at least pressurize the state to do something about it. (by talking about it at least. And yes, if a Jessica Lal case can become an important topic thanks to media and public discussion, why not corruption in NREGA, education, employment and so on. Are those irrelevant concerns, just because we dont' face them or because we get bored on hearing them?) 2) @Yousuf ji: Posting on Sarai reader list, I am afraid, can't be equated with illegal construction. I agree that you do face a problem in a certain sense, and I spoke of those arguments from my personal as well as a third person point of view. I also agree you didn't take my name alone. (Taali ek haath se nahi bajti aakhir) But then again, that doesn't mean because things are not ideal, let me go about infringing on other's freedoms so that I can get the ideal achievement. By that logic, the violence of the upper castes on dalits, the argument of the Tatas for Singur, the arguments of the dictators against democracy, and the arguments of some of the members of this very forum for not trusting Muslims at all (for action of some) is indeed a quite good thing. Why not do those as well? Where will we draw the line as a forum and as a society on restrictions on freedoms, is what I wish to ask? When you post, I have a wish to read it or not, and I do accordingly. Similar is the option for you and others as well. Just because you don't find your interest or because you don't like the topics doesn't mean you say that let's stop posting or restrict posting. What's the guarantee anyway that restricting posting will solve the problem? 3) @ Srikanth ji: I agree with your point, about not limiting posts and about the 2nd. About the 1st, yes, it is also true. But then again, quality content is always few and far for many things, and most of us I believe are non-intellectuals. Therefore, it would be interesting to see what people have as their arguments to talk about. But yes I agree with you. And finally, @ Anupam ji: I really liked the article you sent. It's great that there is a public discussion on the issue. But that discussion is supposed to have a rational element to it. Now I see why Sen stressed on the rational Regards Rakesh From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 13:51:29 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:51:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 16 In-Reply-To: <4B7A45AC-2476-4960-9116-DB2504F8A945@sarai.net> References: <2A234EEA-7CD6-4276-8C4F-CAAA491929BD@sarai.net> <65be9bf40908171207t10a1c0b0w1aa59cd0497a41b4@mail.gmail.com> <4B7A45AC-2476-4960-9116-DB2504F8A945@sarai.net> Message-ID: <7271ec560908180121v6841d3d3q9a1f02e8e8dd5b4f@mail.gmail.com> Dear Jeebesh and Taha, and "all" in the list, while it is an issue of expressing ones thoughts, Taha may note that when he addresses "all", it is pertinent to "all" to know the "change" that are being suggested by id cards, as it will affect "all" in their day to day life. And Jeebesh is perfectly right when Taha has the right to say what he wants "all" to know about this id cards, "all" have right hear what Jeebesh has thoughts about the same so that "all" can understand what is going on for this "change." As to other issue of excessive chit chat, my sincere apologies for the chit chat that I indulged in with few ids, which was surely not worth-while as we "all" like to see, hear and write what we like to see, hear and again apologise for the chit-chat., which should have been personal chat, not for the list. A word of caution, though, who censors and will be the filter for a society that abhors censors but likes the society to be aesthetic.! Regards, Rajen. On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 11:36 AM, Jeebesh wrote: > dear All, > > > http://kafila.org/2009/08/17/expert-committee-on-metadata-and-data-standards-for-personal-identification/ > > for the data tables that will/may become part of national > identification number/card that Taha had mailed a few days back. > Please pass this link around and build the comment and analysis > sediment on it. This list will hopefully benefit from it. > > > On 18-Aug-09, at 12:37 AM, Taha Mehmood wrote: > > > I hope I have made my self absolutely clear and I certainly do not > > want to see any more of -please do this with your material -please do > > that with your material- mails from you Jeebesh. I am sorry!!! > > Interesting. > > Why you do you think you can forbid me from keep saying to you this? > Strange logic. You keep posting, but i can as a subscriber keep > telling you what i feel will be better. Why be so self righteous about > it.? > > Anyway, my mail was to Rakesh not to you. So why think i was writing > to you.? Strange. > > A little less preciousness will help.:) > > warmly > jeebesh > > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 14:06:54 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:06:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed toprotect its religious minorities adequately In-Reply-To: References: <164430.1919.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4eab87870908162342g77e2db07rf10a9ae411df8ada@mail.gmail.com> <177F64CB-0CAF-4AFF-903A-F68778F7D7BB@sarai.net> Message-ID: <7271ec560908180136i51ca1bd0p54c3548507557d01@mail.gmail.com> Dear Taraprakash, and all, both BJP and left are on a course of "hara-kiri" as the party with difference has sought to be party with lots of differences with gradual congressisation of BJP, a Jaswanth doing his own take on freedom struggle, a Raje becoming Annapoorneshwari for sycophancy, with self honouring titles of srimans, president of BJP incapable of any leadership and old order unwilling to give way for new order. and left which had a halo of being non-corrupt has its icons of corruption being revered and held in high places, cadres which were disciplined are the hooligans ready to rape, murder at the command of such corrupt. And Congress on decline thanks solely for the abolition of Seva-dal which was main thrust to offer feedback on the program mes at grass root level, now replaced by savvy shouting brigades for shouting slogans and bring in "crowds." With divided polity, parties based on caste, faith and other parties with notions of being suppressed and oppressed, democratic governance sure needs all the expertise of good vision for the governance of freedom, equity and justice for "all.". On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 6:50 PM, taraprakash wrote: > Just to add a bit, Congress was the biggest contributor to the rise of BJP. > Rajeev gandhi government did overturn the court verdict with the help of a > new law. We should also remember Rajeev Gandhi also put the foundation > stone > at in Ayodhya and raked up a nonissue (vote bank politics). > Those who never stop abusing the left parties and never stop to endorse BJP > at any cost should be reminded that it is after this BJP and communist > parties of India came together to support a "National Front" government. > They will probably come back again very soon. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeebesh" > To: "Sarai Reader-list" > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 3:14 AM > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have failed > toprotect its religious minorities adequately > > > > dear Murali, > > > > You make a mistake. This was the decision by the government in power > > then that gave rise to BJP. It was from here that BJP found it itself > > again relevant after the disaster showing in 1984 election and made > > stronger claim to power over the next decade. > > > > Events moves in directions that are not anticipated at it's origin. > > > > warmly > > jeebesh > > > > On 17-Aug-09, at 12:12 PM, Murali V wrote: > > > >> A -piece-ment for Vote bank!!! > >> > >> On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 11:16 AM, A.K. Malik > >> wrote: > >>> Hi Rakesh, > >>> A little correction please.It was not the triple talaq to > >>> Shah Bano which was under dispute but maintenance to a divorced > >>> woman under Sec 125 CrPC . The Supreme Court, disregarding what the > >>> Muslim Personal Law provides,directed her husband to pay alimony to > >>> his divorced wife.But this decision of the SC was made a nullity by > >>> enactment of a law by Rajiv Gandhi govt.under pressure from Muslim > >>> community. > >>> Regards, > >>> > >>> (A.K.MALIK) > >>> > >>> > >>> --- On Sat, 8/15/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > >>> > >>>> From: Rakesh Iyer > >>>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] India on a list of countries which have > >>>> failed to protect its religious minorities adequately > >>>> To: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" > >>>> Cc: "sarai list" , "Jeebesh" < > jeebesh at sarai.net > >>>> > > >>>> Date: Saturday, August 15, 2009, 6:15 PM > >>>> Dear Shuddha,Murali and all > >>>> > >>>> There is one more country which is not mentioned in that > >>>> list. The country > >>>> which celebrates its' 62nd independence day, today, on 15th > >>>> August 2009, > >>>> whose first PM had spoken of 'Tryst with destiny' on 15th > >>>> August 1947, and > >>>> which has the third largest no. of Muslims in the world > >>>> (after Indonesia and > >>>> Pakistan). > >>>> > >>>> It's not an Islamic state (and the SC in legality did > >>>> overrule the Hadith > >>>> and the Sharia by not allowing the triple talaq in the case > >>>> of Shah Bano) > >>>> > >>>> Please do remember this country, even though it's not a > >>>> Muslim majority > >>>> country, because of the no. of Muslims living in it in > >>>> sheer nos. > >>>> > >>>> Regards > >>>> > >>>> Rakesh > >>>> _________________________________________ > >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > >>>> city. > >>>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > >>>> with subscribe in the subject header. > >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>>> List archive: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _________________________________________ > >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >>> Critiques & Collaborations > >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >>> subscribe in the subject header. > >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >>> List archive: > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Aug 18 14:38:23 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:08:23 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 16 In-Reply-To: <4B7A45AC-2476-4960-9116-DB2504F8A945@sarai.net> References: <2A234EEA-7CD6-4276-8C4F-CAAA491929BD@sarai.net> <65be9bf40908171207t10a1c0b0w1aa59cd0497a41b4@mail.gmail.com> <4B7A45AC-2476-4960-9116-DB2504F8A945@sarai.net> Message-ID: <65be9bf40908180208i4d62fb26r5e97f5b0afa4f5bc@mail.gmail.com> Dear Jeebesh, Of course!! No one can forbid you from posting anything you want. But I am glad that you choose to term an unsolicited suggestion to a third party on the list to do or not to do something as -self righteous- because this could be how I may have felt about your activism. I did not know about the development of a new reader-list protocol that only particular people who are addressed to in a mail can reply, even if one's name also figures in the mail. Interesting!!! > A little less preciousness will help.:) -Likewise- Love :) Taha PS Thanks for posting the links which I sent you on Kafila. I personally do no't think that discussion is any different from what we get on the RL. We still do not know what the personal identification data stands for? From peter.ksmtf at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 14:57:15 2009 From: peter.ksmtf at gmail.com (T Peter) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:57:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Tehelka Story Message-ID: <3457ce860908180227s759240a7l66a35a45c9f5e379@mail.gmail.com> On the "unheard" revolutionaries.. Tehelka has done a good job again, recognising a few of the the real voices... http://www.tehelka.com/story_main42.asp?filename=Ne220809coverstory.asp From akshaym at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 15:14:42 2009 From: akshaym at gmail.com (Akshay) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:14:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Dharavi on MediumFormat Message-ID: <1932e9470908180244v5ea5548fxfbe3a5822fd03dfe@mail.gmail.com> ~ http://blindboys.org/blog/?p=136 Ramshackle corrugated tin, plywood, plastic, pukkah bricks, sheets of asbestos, sweat, toil, people and garbage make Dharavi, just like piles of earth, sand, clay and other materials make ant hills. Dharavi and many other slums like it are nothing but human ant colonies built by legions of our urban poor. They are places which are at same time sombre, moving, joyful and interesting .Push and pull factors, bring people from our villages here everyday in search for something better. They settle here much to the neglect of our apathetic eyes. But under the squalor is great spirit and ingenuity. I went looking for this spirit in this place most people refer to as ‘Asia’s largest slum’ but I would prefer to call the ‘Heart of Mumbai’. ~ http://Blindboys.org We'll be doing projections soon ! So staytuned and get in touch with us if interesting in showing your work on blindboys at gmail.com -- Akshay Mahajan Photojournalist. +919833230562 http://www.akshayphoto.com http://trivialmatters.blogspot.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/lecercle/ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 15:36:43 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:36:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 16 In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40908180208i4d62fb26r5e97f5b0afa4f5bc@mail.gmail.com> References: <2A234EEA-7CD6-4276-8C4F-CAAA491929BD@sarai.net> <65be9bf40908171207t10a1c0b0w1aa59cd0497a41b4@mail.gmail.com> <4B7A45AC-2476-4960-9116-DB2504F8A945@sarai.net> <65be9bf40908180208i4d62fb26r5e97f5b0afa4f5bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Jeebesh ji Since you wished my reply, here it is. The idea of a blog is something I accept, would be good, even for my own sake. Hence, I am contemplating and in a few days, would probably make a blog on such issues, as I think collecting articles for the same would be good. By the way, there's a campaign site for Right to Food Campaign, the link being: www.*righttofood*india.org/ You can visit the site, but it doesn't have all the articles I have been sending as my posts. It however contains updates to the Right to Food Campaign, and a lot of other information, which you may be interested in. However, I equally have the right to accept your view or not, and since I felt posting articles on this issue would help in members understanding the issue and its importance in a better manner, so that they may also put comments on it or discuss about it. It now seems that people are more interested in not getting mails from Sarai or discussing only on issues like communalism-secularism (hungry people don't fight for Hindutva or for being secular, they want and fight for food) or Islam and terrorism. Not to say that these issues are irrelevant, but if these Islamic and Hindutva terrorists (whom we discuss about) were to be forcibly kept hungry, it's not their ideology but food which will save them from despair, deprivation and death. Therefore, I would certainly consider your idea of putting a blog, for after all, when members are concerned more about flooding of in-boxes rather than knowing about an issue, may be that indeed may be a good idea. Thanks for the suggestion. Regards Rakesh From jeebesh at sarai.net Tue Aug 18 15:38:41 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (Jeebesh) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:38:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Srinagar Hydro-Electric Project-The Cat is out of Bag Message-ID: From Matu People's Organisatioon matuporg at gmail.com Project Name: Srinagar Hydro Electric Project 330 MW (but cleared by MoEF for 200 MW) River: Bhilangana (Tehri & Pouri Distt.) Uttarakhand Envionment Clearance: 3-5-1985 Agency: GVK Group of Andhra Pradesh Srinagar Hydro-Electric Project-The Cat is out of Bag The Srinagar Hydro Electric Project of 330 MW on the Alaknanda River in Uttarakhand is a dam that stands on fraud papers, measurements and accounts. Furthermore, the project is going on paying no heed to necessary the environmental and legal standards. As a result of this, the Coffer dam collapsed. The state level and the central level monitoring is equal to zero and that is the reason why no action is being taken. It is the phenomenon that has been going on since the last decade. On 3rd May 1985, citing the reason of great shortage of electricity in the region the Centre Govt. gave the Environment Clearance for 200 MW with some very general conditions. The plan to start the work for the main dam was in 1987-88 but due to some reasons it did not started. Till now many project proponent including big names like Tata had taken the work but left it. At last in 2005 the project is given in the hands of GVK Group of Andhra Pradesh. In reffrence to the above, Matu Peoples’ Organisation has written to various governmental and authorities related to the issue demanding immediate closure of the construction work so that the environment the region can be saved. But neither had it got any response nor any action taken. The environment clearance for this project was of 200 MW but without any study or survey it was increased to 330 MW. On the proposal of Uttar Pradesh State Electricity Board for the environment clearance on 12-3-85, the proposed height of the dam was of 73meters and it was a run of the river project. In the proposal the authority claimed that it will not pose negative impact on the environment but it is truly baseless claims because---- The houses of the affected area have got cracked due to explosive used for the dam construction. The muke and other disposles of the dam construction is being thrown in banks of Alaknanda without making any retaining wall and it is going in to the river. As a result of it the river changed its way creating havoc for the colonies of Srinagar town. Because of the dust due to construction the crops, fodder and medicinal plants of the region have been harmed. In the people of the affected area especially in children some diseases mainly Asthma, Allergy of skin and eyes have increased. On these very serious issues neither the State Pollution control Board is paying any heed to it nor is the central agency taking any action on it. The conditions those were mentioned in the Environmental Clearance of 29-03-1985 were also not fulfilled. One of the condition of the Environmental Clearance was that there should be geo-morphological studies to be undertaken in the catchment to formulate plans for the stability of the slopes and reservoir periphery through engineering and biological measures. But in the Monitoring report of 26-6-06 of the Environment Ministry mentioned that thus didn’t take place. If the project authority fulfills the condition of making a 50meter green belt above the reservoir,they have to acquire any land.for this purpose. But without the approval of the people, making green belt is not possible and if the land aqusition is done now then displacement will be seen as huge. But after the completion of the project the land can be taken for the purpose by pressurising the people in the name of security of the dam. The Central Environment Appraisal Committee has given the clearance for the 200 MW project on the basis that 300 hectors of land in which 175 hectors of forest land will be submerged. On 12-04-1985 UP Sate Electricity Board sent a notice to the environment Ministry. Here the Board had mentioned about the effects of the dam on the environment in detail, but it was also meant for 200 MW only. On the basis of that only the Environment Appraisal Committee has recommended for the environment clearance to the MOEF and the ministry had given the clearance on 23-3-1985 for 200 MW. The conditions of the clearance letter were in accordance with the 200 MW plan. In September 1986, the Irrigation department of UP decided to increase the production capacity of Srinagar Power Project from 200 MW to 320.7 MW and sent the proposal to Central Electricity Authority (CEA). The MOEF and Forest Department of UP had given clearance on the basis of 338 hector land. On 23-3-90 the Special secretary of UP had written with detailed conditions to the Forest Dept. of UP to transfer 328.86 hector forest land to the Irrigation Department. The basis of this letter is also the environmental clearance for 200 MW. The CEA on 14th June 2000 gave the project re-approval. On 6th of November 1982 CEA gave financial and technical clearance to the Srinagar Project as a Run of the River project where as the Ministry Of Environment and Forest (MOEF) gave approval to it as Run of the River project with poundage. According to the rules of 1985, the Environment Clearance from MOEF is valid for 5 years. But after 14 years in 1999 without any enquiry the old clearance was extended. The same extension happened after 6 years again which means that the project is running on the basis of the clearance of 1985. In 1985 the proposed height was of 63meters but now it has been increased to 93 meters. It shows that drastic changes have been made in the project but on the basis of an age-old environment clearance. The environment clearance of the dam’s reservoir is of 604 meters but near Dhari Devi Temple (at the end of the reservior) it touched the 611 meters mark. But the forest clearance was for 605.5 meter reservoir. The Economic and Technical clearance from CEA was given on 14-06-2000 but the main work of the project is yet to start. The clearance that was for 3 years got expired on 14-06-2003 but still the work is on? The CEA in its clearance has clearly mentioned that the cost of the project is of 1299 crore plus 95 million US dollar. In 2006 MOEF monitoring committee mentioned cost as 1978 crore. It seems that there is a big corruption going as the increase of cost of production effects the cost of power. In the Onsite Monitoring Report of 26th of August 2008 submitted by the State Level Committee mentioned that there is no proper hygienic facility for defection and because of open defection Alaknanda River and the affected area are getting polluted. To keep the River clean and from the aspect of environment this is very objectionable and should be stop immediately. Moreover the details and number of trees chopped down in the name of dam construction is not available. In the same report it was ordered to the Pouri office of forest department to dispose the waste of the project according to a proper plan from a reputed institute and to do video-graphy of this. But the Pouri office of the Forest department said that neither their was any plan nor any video-graphy took place. It was found that no condition was fulfilled at any stage. It is obvious that the government departments are not paying any attention to it. It was planned that in the Srinagar HEP the water will be stored in the day time and electricity will be produce in the evening at peak hours. But it will stop the flow of the river. Besides it will adversely affect the hydro-electric projects at the down of the river for which the craze is same. With all these faults and under the table friendship of the government institutions with the project authorities which is adversely impacting not only on the Alaknanda River but also on the health and hygiene of the people of Srinagar and affectd villages. It is also an attack on the financial and environmental condition of a state and of the country as a whole. Should these projects still continue even after that? Only to produce electricity, should we scarifie all the rules, regulations, environment, our human and natural rights and our moral values. Our demand is Ø The Government should stop this project immediately and release a white paper. Ø Proper remuneration and settlement for the displaced. Ø Find alternatives of Dam work done till now and made arrangment for the local people so that they can get employment Vimal bhai Convenor Matu Peoples' Organisation matujan.blogspot.com Delhi Contact:- D-334/ 10, Ganesh Nagar, Pandav Nagar Complex, Delhi-110092 91-11-22485545 From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 16:14:46 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:14:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 16 In-Reply-To: References: <2A234EEA-7CD6-4276-8C4F-CAAA491929BD@sarai.net> <65be9bf40908171207t10a1c0b0w1aa59cd0497a41b4@mail.gmail.com> <4B7A45AC-2476-4960-9116-DB2504F8A945@sarai.net> <65be9bf40908180208i4d62fb26r5e97f5b0afa4f5bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear all >From now on, I would not be posting any RTF articles anymore on this site. My blog is: raahein.wordpress.com Anybody who wishes to read those articles is free to do so. Hope the members are happy. Also, I wish to unsubscribe from the forum. I can't be a part of a forum where even the moderator simply goes along with views to stop posting. It seems members of the forum do me or others a favor by reading articles and even a greater favor by commenting on them (particularly on issues which I feel should bother us), as if we are sending papers to them and they have to decide if it is research level stuff or not. Thanks to those who read my posts and commented and sorry to those whom I may have hurt any day during posting such articles or mails, including this one. Shuddha, Taha and rest (including Rajen ji), I will miss you. Regards Rakesh From thungas at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 16:47:56 2009 From: thungas at gmail.com (Srikanth Thunga) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:47:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] a letter to Sarai admin In-Reply-To: References: <748406.60843.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: How many of you are aware of sarai reader list archive? The link is here: https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/ For people who think that there is an overload of information on sarai email list, I would like to suggest an alternative Step 1. Do not unsubscribe from the list. Setup filters on your email to archive emails from sarai Step 2. Use the above link to browse only the topics that interest you. You can browse by thread, sender, date, subject until a better solution is implemented which might take a couple of weeks. Request everyone to stay on as a member so that the lively discussion continues... Regards, -Srikanth (a very recent member of sarai) On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 10:49 AM, Monica Narula wrote: > dear Yousuf, Srikanth, Rakesh, Geeta, all > > I agree that we need to find a technological solution to limit the > number of posting of a person to 3 or 4 in a day. That will ease the > traffic. (although shifting a list/server to a new situation is not > something that can be done easily - we are looking into it) > > But the larger question that begs some discussion is that commitment > to one's ideas, opinions and thoughts is not being matched by people > with a similar commitment to the idea of common grounds, or respect > for the platform in which people are participating. This lack of > thought about "common ground" is what makes the problem very difficult > to solve merely by technological means. > > The question is posed mostly as one of "freedom of speech". Its an > easy stance as it speaks in simple binary. > I would say that it can be reformulated - and reflecting much more of > the complexity of the kind of writing on the list - as one of "making > common ground". It is the shape, texture and density of this common > ground that needs some thought and investigation. It is an open > subscriber list. Anybody can join and post. Its only a question of > having a valid email address... > There are many on the reader-list who would have found it difficult to > make a space on their own and invite others. A lack of reflection on > what would they do if they had to build themselves and then invite > others creates a problem of how they participate and intervene. > > We in the middle class are known in society as people who will throw > garbage on the street if it keeps the house clean. This percolates > deep in our overall way of doing things. In my work I visit many > workshops and production sites. What amazes me is how recklessly these > places keep materials and instruments. The people who own it are there > for 18 hours a day. They beautify their houses with great care yet > keep the place where they spend majority of their time with utter > callousness. > > This needs to be thought through and engaged with. Reprimands, code of > conduct, protocols and technological fixes are mere aides. (and except > for the technical fix, everything else has been tried already) They > can't solve the problem. > > List Admin > > Monica Narula > Raqs Media Collective > Sarai-CSDS > www.raqsmediacollective.net > www.sarai.net > > > > On 17-Aug-09, at 11:08 AM, Srikanth Thunga wrote: > > > I completely agree with Yousuf. > > > > I have a suggestion. Move sarai to ning network or something > > similar. I am a > > member of open anthropology group on ning and I have found it to be > > very > > versatile which makes a lot more sense. Please check > > http://openanthcoop.ning.com/ > > > > I have a little bit of experience on ning & I can help the owner to > > pilot > > it/test it etc... > > > > Keith Hart, who was the creator of OAC on ning is aware of this > > group I got > > enticed to join this only on suggestion of Arvind and Keith Hart on > > OAC. > > > > In my opinion, sarai still seems to be on decade old technologies of > > mailing > > lists when internet has improved to a much mature platform. > > > > I had mailed the owner once a while ago, but never got a response. I > > wanted > > to suggest a more mature platform to the owner as I was overwhelmed > > by the > > number of emails I get everyday on this mailing list. I am still not > > used to > > reading all emails on sarai and there are no alternate ways of > > looking at > > the information. I happened to read this email also by chance only. > > > > Regards, > > -Srikanth > > > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Yousuf wrote: > > > >> Dear Sarai readers, especially the admin > >> We have discussed this a million times, but the habit of a few > >> people to > >> put the entire list (of 2000+ subscribers) on ransom by only > >> discussing > >> their favourite topics day-in and day-out doesn't seem to stop. I > >> am not in > >> favour of moderating or censorship (and I love freedom of speech), > >> but those > >> of us who post 40 emails a day should at least think about the > >> excesses they > >> are creating in the world. > >> > >> Sometime ago someone had suggested that each subscriber should be > >> restricted to post a certain number of mails a day (maybe 2 or 4). > >> Why can't > >> we follow something like that. I wonder if the Sarai list has the > >> technical > >> options to automatically restrict people from posting in excess, but > >> something needs to be done desperately. These days, whenever I have > >> any > >> conversations about Sarai among friends, everyone seems to have > >> grown fed up > >> with it - many are thinking of unsubscribing or already have. Simply > >> deleting or ignoring the mails or applying filters is not enough. > >> Because > >> one usually is tempted to subject headers, and one opens the Sarai > >> mails > >> with a lot of expectation. But many a times, one gets disappointed > >> to see a > >> sort of personal chatting going on. > >> > >> Why are we doing this hara-kiri in the name of freedom of expression. > >> > >> Yousuf > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > >> List archive: > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Aug 18 17:21:18 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:51:18 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Tomorrow is Now- 201 Message-ID: <65be9bf40908180451v2b853dbcmc27deec8aa357432@mail.gmail.com> Dear All This piece below, presents a view from Africa on coding of personal identities of Lawyers to distinguish people with 'fake' law degrees from the real lawyers. Please have a look at this extremely pertinent scenario for more. Warm regards Taha http://www.thisdayonline.com/nview.php?id=151832 Tomorrow is Now 08.17.2009 Imagine you are sitting in the court room waiting for your matter to be called. It's all quiet as everyone is waiting for His Lordship's ruling on a case. There is some movement at the back, a late arrival is trying to find room to sit. Suddenly, lights begin to flash, alarms go off and a steel cage descends from the ceiling and encases His Lordship�s bench. A tiny electronic voice repeats over and over again �intruder alert, fake lawyer in court�. Admittedly, this scenario is the result of this reporter�s overindulgence in Sci-fi movies but if the DBI consortium is to be believed, fiction and reality may not be so disparate anymore. The legal profession is referred to as a �noble� one. It is steeped in tradition and members of this elite brotherhood are expected to conduct themselves in a seemly manner. Apart from the academic qualifications, those who would be called to the bar must be certified by senior members of the bar and bench as being fit and proper persons to be admitted to the Nigerian Bar. It is extremely alarming therefore that this supposed bastion of integrity and orderliness has been besieged by impostors. The problem of fake lawyers has reared its ugly head consistently and despite steps taken to deal with it, the fraudsters appear to grow only more ingenious. In August 2009 alone, there have been six reported cases of fake lawyers caught in the very act in various parts of the country. One Mr. Adegboyega Adeniran, who had been holding himself out as a legal practitioner since 1992, was only recently discovered in Ibadan whilst appearing in a civil matter. The fake lawyer was identified by opposing counsel in court. Apparently, his qualifications or lack thereof had become notorious. Honourable Justice Ayinla Gbolagunte, before whom he appeared, demanded that he present his licence, which he could not. He was sentenced to two years in prison with hard labour in keeping with Section 22 of the Legal Practitioners Act. Another, one Gideon Brown, was apprehended whilst appearing on behalf of a client who is currently an inmate at KiriKiri Prison in Lagos. He allegedly received the sum of N50,000 from the inmate for his services. The most alarming report however, is that of a fake lawyer who had practiced for so long and had become so brazen that he ran for, and was elected into office as an executive member of an NBA branch in Lagos. Cases such as this, erode the implicit trust which a legal practitioner ought to inspire in clients; old and prospective. Observers might hasten to classify this as a Nigerian problem but reports show that it is not. In India, in 2004, the Punjab and Haryana Bar Council found that 40 lawyers who had applied for practicing licences held fake law degrees. More recently, two fake immigration lawyers were arrested in New York. The two men were indicted on charges of grand larceny, scheming to defraud, practicing or appearing as an attorney-at-law without being admitted to the bar and registered as a lawyer, and violating the Immigration Assistance Services Law. If the fake lawyer detection system (FLDS), fondly referred to as �FLAWED��, were in operation, impersonating a lawyer would be impossible. Sadly, FLAWED is still the figment of our imagination. Bar Associations all over the world have taken various steps to tackle the issue. In Long Island, New York, lawyers repeatedly called for a review of state legislation which classifies impersonation of a legal practitioner as a misdemeanour, believing that stiffer punishment would deter would-be impersonators. In india, the Bar Association recommended a verification exercise to ensure that the lawyers in practice held authentic credentials. This would involve physically checking all the records of lawyers applying for licences and those already in practice. Not surprisingly, there were several references to dusty tomes and the inconvenience of the exercise. However, the Nigerian Bar Association may have found the most ingenious and effective means of curtailing the problem for good. Last week Friday, August 14 2009, at a press conference held at the NBA Secretariat in Lagos, the Digital Bar Initiative (DBI) was launched. The DBI consortium is made up of the Technology Advisors, Apace Innovative Solutions and Intel with technical support from Chams. To combat the problem of identifying the real lawyers in Nigeria, the DBI has developed a unique bar card. This card, which will incorporate biometric data of the holder, will also have a unique number. In addition, the DBI intends to develop a portal on which lawyers will conduct transactions using their unique identification numbers. The Bar Card is similar to that issued to lawyers by the Bar Association of England and Wales. The difference being that the English version does not have biometric data and is not proof that the bearer is indeed licensed to practice law. The Nigerian Bar Card is innovative on several levels and in particular, persons dealing with Nigerian lawyers in the future, can rely on the Bar card as evidence of the lawyer�s licence to practice. Mr. Basil Udotai of Technology Advisors told THISDAY LAWYER, �the Digital Bar Initiative aims to create a TRUST platform around the legal community in Nigeria�. In the future, lawyers will also be able to pay practicing fees and conclude other transactions, using the DBI portal. The objectives of the Initiative are, simply put, to identify, equip and connect lawyers in Nigeria. All lawyers will be required to appear at the enrolment booths to be set up all over the country and present their certificates for registration and issuance of the bar card. According to the members of the consortium, the expected wait period at any of the enrolment booths should be no longer than 5 minutes. NBA President, Mr. Rotimi Akeredolu had stated as guest columnist last week in THISDAY LAWYER that the portal would be linked to several other online systems giving lawyers access to information from the Corporate Affairs Commission and Land Registries amongst others. He said, �I expect that all lawyers will key in and take advantage of it as a first step towards transforming ourselves and our practice as the lawyers of tomorrow. Gentlemen, tomorrow is today! From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Aug 18 17:44:31 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:14:31 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 16 In-Reply-To: References: <2A234EEA-7CD6-4276-8C4F-CAAA491929BD@sarai.net> <65be9bf40908171207t10a1c0b0w1aa59cd0497a41b4@mail.gmail.com> <4B7A45AC-2476-4960-9116-DB2504F8A945@sarai.net> <65be9bf40908180208i4d62fb26r5e97f5b0afa4f5bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40908180514w17bd1dbajc1dc86f11ad7fb91@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh, I am really very very sorry that because of empty words of few people you are tempted to feel that you should give the proposal of unsubscribing from this forum, a serious thought. I would have hoped for the situation to have been much more polite. There seems to be an apparent lack of maturity in the way people have handled this situation. People seem to have assumed totally uncalled for roles. If you were to unsubscribe from this forum, I would certainly miss reading your mails. However I do hope though that you seriously re-consider your decision. I do not think that why one must give undue consideration to any idiocy expressed by the way of a suggestion, critique, compliment or a gesture. Warm regards Taha From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 18 19:02:21 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 06:32:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?Jaswant=E2=80=99s_Jinnah_-_Karan_Thapar?= Message-ID: <771779.61657.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Karan Thapar August 16, 2009   "Jaswant’s Jinnah"   There’s a book published tomorrow that deserves to be widely read. It’s Jaswant Singh’s biography of Jinnah. Read on and you’ll discover why.   Singh’s view of Jinnah is markedly different to the accepted Indian image. He sees him as a nationalist, even accepting that Jinnah was a great Indian. I’ll even add he admires Jinnah and I’m confident he won’t disagree when I interview him tonight on CNN-IBN.   The critical question this biography raises is how did the man they called the Ambassador of Hindu-Muslim unity in 1916 end up as the Qaid-e-Azam of  Pakistan in 1947? The answer: he was pushed by the Congress’s repeated inability to  accept that Muslims feared domination by Hindus and wanted “space” in “a  re-assuring system”. Singh’s account of how the Congress refused to form a  government with the Muslim League in UP in 1937, after fighting the election in  alliance, except on terms that would have amounted to its dissolution, suggests Jinnah’s fears were real and substantial.   The biography does not depict Jinnah as the only or even the principal  villain of Partition. Nehru and Mountbatten share equal responsibility. While the book reveals that Gandhi, Rajagopalachari and Azad understood the Muslim  fear of Congress majoritarianism, Nehru could not. If there is a conclusion, it is that had the Congress accepted a decentralised, federal India, then a united India  “was clearly ours to attain”. The problem: “this was an anathema to Nehru’s centralising approach and policies”.   Singh’s assessment of Partition is striking. After asserting that it  “multiplied our problems without solving any communal issue,” he asks “if the  communal, the principal issue, remains…. in an even more exacerbated form than before… then why did we divide at all?” The hinted answer is that no real purpose was served.   But Singh goes further. He accepts that because of Partition, the Muslims who stayed on in India are “abandoned”, “bereft of a sense  of real kinship” and “not…  one in their entirety with the rest... This robs them of the essence of psychological  security.”   But that’s not all. He does not rule out further partitions: “In India…  having once accepted this principle of reservation (1909)… then of partition,  how can we now deny it to others...?”   Where the book compares the early Jinnah and Gandhi, the language and the  analysis tilt in the former’s favour. At their first meeting in 1915, Gandhi’s  response to Jinnah’s “warm welcome” was “ungracious”. Gandhi insisted on seeing  Jinnah in Muslim terms and the implication is he was narrow-minded.. Of their leadership, the book says Gandhi’s “had almost an entirely religious provincial  flavour” while Jinnah’s was “doubtless imbued by a non-sectarian nationalistic zeal”.   Finally, “Jinnah… successfully kept the Indian political forces together, simultaneously exerting pressure on the government.”  In Gandhi’s case “that pressure dissipated and the British Raj remained for three more decades.”   Unfortunately, I can’t assess the reliability of Singh’s  viewpoint. I’m not an historian. But I can assert that it’s  courageous and probably a valuable corrective. We need to see Jinnah without the  prejudice of the past. It may be uncomfortable to accept suppressed  truths but we can’t keep denying them.   This book will stir a storm of protest, perhaps most from Jaswant Singh’s  own party. He realises that. But it did not deter him.     http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=RSSFeed-Views&id=2fdfb76d-7258-42c4-9bf1-7371312234ae&Headline=Jaswant-s-Jinnah   From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 18 19:06:28 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 06:36:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=98Understanding_Pak-India_ties_key?= =?utf-8?b?IHRvIHJlYWxpc2luZyBKaW5uYWjigJlzIGRyZWFt4oCZ?= Message-ID: <8586.79707.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Saturday, August 15, 2009   ‘Understanding Pak-India ties key to realising Jinnah’s dream’   (* Ayesha Jalal says Jinnah envisioned secular Pakistan * Khalid Mehmood says India’s initial attitude laid foundation of sour relationship)   Staff Report   LAHORE: A better understanding of the strategic perception of India-Pakistan ties is the key to the future of South Asia and the realisation of the dream of Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, eminent historian Ayesha Jalal said on Friday. She was addressing a seminar titled ‘Jinnah’s Vision of Pakistan and Relations with Neighbours’ at the South Asian Free Media Association (SAFMA) head office on Friday. Former federal minister SM Masood, former ambassador Khalid Mehmood and Government College University faculty member Prof Tahir Kamran also spoke on the occasion. Secular: Jalal said Jinnah had envisioned a secular Pakistan where all citizens had equal rights but later the governments subverted the ideals of the founder of the country. She said it was also a fact that Jinnah had tilted towards religion during his sixties, but the term secular is sometimes confused with atheism and there starts an argument whether Jinnah believed in religion or not. She said Jinnah had the substance in his personality to unite the Hindus, Muslims and other religious communities of the subcontinent but he ended up adopting the option of partition. She said Jinnah had once stated that India would have to shed its superiority complex and enter a number of treaties with Pakistan for the future of both the countries. Speaking on the occasion, Masood said there was no greater champion of human rights and united India than Jinnah, but the Congress elite frequently sabotaged his campaign and forced him to demand a separate homeland for the Muslims of India. He referred to three different speeches of Jinnah – his speech to the Constituent Assembly in 1947, to the Indian Constituent Assembly to defend Bhagat Singh right before his execution, and his speech at the inauguration of the State Bank – and said Jinnah was all for the equal rights for every citizen. He said the seeds of extremism had done the maximum damage to Jinnah’s vision for Pakistan and the ongoing peace deal with India was sabotaged by another dictator in 1999 in the form of the Kargil War. While addressing the seminar, Mehmood said Indians had created difficulties for Pakistan right from the beginning, and Jinnah had to urge them to shed their superiority complex. Initial attitude: He said mistakes were made from both sides but India’s initial attitude towards Pakistan laid the foundation of a sour relationship between the two countries. He said that both the countries should break the status quo and move to resolve conflict through composite dialogue. He said both the countries needed to overcome trust deficit. Kamran said the propaganda launched by mullahs through biased textbooks and other methods had mutilated Jinnah’s vision. The speakers stressed the need to revert Ziaul Haq’ jihadi ideology to the vision of Quaid-e-Azam.     http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2009%5C08%5C15%5Cstory_15-8-2009_pg7_15     From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 18 19:12:30 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 06:42:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?=22Maulana_Maududi=E2=80=99s_Role_Against?= =?utf-8?b?IEppbm5haOKAmXMgUGFraXN0YW4i?= Message-ID: <25394.34596.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> August 15, 2009 "Maulana Maududi’s Role Against Jinnah’s Pakistan"   By Yasser Latif Hamdani   Let me start by saying - as a disclaimer- that opposing Jinnah, the Muslim League or Pakistan is not  an unpardonable crime.  Support for Pakistan’s creation is not sine qua non for its citizenship.  However an exception must be made in the case of Jamaat-e-Islami given its latter day claims about being the guardians of Pakistan’s ideology.     Maulana Maududi claimed and his “Jamaat-e-Islami” still claims to be the guardian of Pakistan’s ideological frontiers as it were.  They have been at the forefront of religious bigotry against all minority groups of Pakistan.  They abuse those who stand for a peaceful settlement of Kashmir dispute and they hurl abuses at groups like Agha Khanis and Ahmadis- the two of the most actively pro-Pakistan groups during partition- and accuse them of being the enemies of Pakistan.   What a turn around.  Maududi was the most vociferous opponent of Mr. Jinnah and the Pakistan Movement.  I reproduce here some of his referenced works here from his “Muslims and the Present Political Turmoil” (Vol.III)  First Edition published from Delhi.  Jamaat-e-Islami claims that the whole Two Nation Theory project was derived from Maududi’s writings which is completely untrue. Maududi described the idea of Muslim Nationalism as unlikely as a ”chaste prostitute”.  Here he wrote:   ” Who are the Muslims you are claiming to be a separate nation? Here, the crowd called Muslims is full of all sorts of rabble. There are as many types of characters in this as in any (other) heathen people”. (Vol. III, P.166)    “If you survey this so-called Muslim society, you will come across multifarious types of Muslims, of countless categories. This is a zoo with a collection of crows, kites, vultures, partridges and thousands of other types of birds. Every one of them is a ’sparrow’. (Ibid. P.31)    One of Jamaat-e-Islami’s latter day claims has been that Mr. Jinnah wanted an Islamic state.  Ironically this is what Jamaat-e-Islami’s philosopher in chief Maulana Maududi was writing back then:   “Pity! From League’s Quaid-e-Azam down to the lower cadres, there is not a single person who has an Islamic outlook and thinking and whose perspective on matters is Islamic“. (Ibid. P.37)   “To pronounce these people fit for leading Muslims for the simple reason that they are experts of Western type politics and masters of Western organizational arts, and are deeply in love with their people, is a manifestation of an unislamic viewpoint and reflects ignorance of Islam”. (Ibid. P.70)   “Even with a microscopic study of their practical life, and their thinking, ideology, political behaviour and style of leadership, one can find not a trace of Islamic character.”     Jamaat-e-Islami now claims claims that the Muslim League won the elections because it promised Pakistan as an Islamic state.  Here is what Maulana Maududi said then:   “In no Muslim League resolution, or in a speech by a responsible leader of the League it has it been made clear that their final goal is of establishing an Islamic system of government. Those who believe that by freeing Muslim majority areas rule of Hindu majority, an Islamic government will be established here in a democratic set up, are wrong. In fact what will be achieved will be a heretical government by Muslims, indeed worse than that.” (Ibid. P.130-32)      One of the main arguments in favor of separate federations in India put up by Muslim League was that parliamentary democracy would not work in United India given the permanent minority that Muslims were with their own majority zones.   Thus Pakistan – as a separate federation- had to be a democratic state.  Jinnah’s vision, as Gandhi concluded after his abortive meetings with Jinnah in 1944, was of a perfect democracy in Pakistan.   This vision was rejected by Maulana Maududi and his party.   The fact that Jinnah used electoral methods and strengths of numbers for his politics also upset Maulana Maududi quite a bit.  He wrote:   “For these reasons, the great numbers (of Muslims) that we find. (listed) in the census records has become worthless for purposes of Islam. Anything done on the strength of these numbers will result in acute frustration.” (Ibid. P.56)   Had these great numbers supported Maududi he would have gladly accepted their strength.  In 1947, he moved to Pakistan and brought here with him his cancerous Jamaat-e-Islami too.  He remained however a committed opponent of the Pakistani national causes including the Kashmir struggle calling it unIslamic.  Today the Jamaat-e-Islami castigates anyone and everyone who wants a peaceful settlement in Kashmir.  I suppose Maududi could not call the Kashmir struggle a Jihad because then Ahmadis were involved in fighting there under their Al-Furqan brigade.   A few years later Maududi in cahoots with the old anti-Muslim League and anti-Pakistan group Majlis-e-Ahrar started the anti-Ahmaddiya movement in Pakistan with the main objective of getting Zafrulla dismissed from his post as the foreign minister. This is the same Zafrulla who was the author of the Lahore Resolution and had been appointed by the Quaid to plead Pakistan’s case before the boundary commission and the United Nations.   The movement led to a death sentence being handed down to Maulana Maududi which was not carried out.    At the Munir Report hearings  the Jamaat e Islami described Jinnah’s vision of the state as expressed on 11 August 1947 as kufr and evil.  Today Jamaat e Islami claims that 11th August speech was actually according to Islamic Law.   Ofcourse they would never agree to its implementation in letter and spirit but perhaps we could consider this an improvement.    Some Jamaat-e-Islami wallahs point to Maududi’s half hearted support to Fatima Jinnah’s bid for presidency as proof of his patriotism and love for democracy. The truth is that Jamaat-e-Islami had nothing against dictatorship and indeed military coup seems to be Jamaat’s preferred method of change of government.  What alienated Maududi from Ayub was the latter’s insistence on taking lead in Islam-related matters from Allama Parwez and the modernist Harvard scholar Fazlurrahman instead of him.    The Jamaat-e-Islami expected to sweep into power in 1970 through elections (wait isn’t this a contradiction?).  Maududi’s son even visited Ahmaddiya headquarters and told them to vote for Jamaat-e-Islami for “safe passage out of Pakistan”.   However the election results didn’t quite turn out the way Maududi wanted it to.    So he went about it another way forming Al Badr a militant organization which is distinguished in its role in East Pakistan.   Those who accuse Bhutto of being power hungry by collaborating with army should also consider the fact that had Bhutto not played footsie with the dictator,  it would have been an abject surrender of both East and West Pakistan,  in the East to India and in the West to Maududi.   Given this history and  Jamaat-e-Islami’s role in aid of General Zia,  all their claims of democracy seem hollow.  Had it not been for Aitzaz Ahsan’s sagacious leadership,  they would have hijacked  the Lawyers’ Movement.   We must be on the look out for any meetings between Jamaat-e-Islami’s current chief and the Pakistan Army and the patriots of Pakistan must remember that Jamaat-e-Islami will always persecute those who actually stand for Pakistan..  A  few years ago they even started a campaign to have Aga Khanis declared Non-muslims.  Ofcourse the fact that Aga Khan was the first president of the Muslim League and Jinnah himself was an Agha Khani by birth is too inconvenient for them.   It is therefore in this context that the slander, abuse and lies posted by a third rate newspaper “Daily Ummat” against PakTeaHouse and myself  must be read.    It is because we speak up for Pakistan, it is because we expose the Fitna-e-Maududiat,  it is because we speak for Jinnah’s Pakistan and because we speak for the minorities of Pakistan and because we feel Pakistan deserves a shot.    The Fitna-e-Maududiat will never attack those who abuse Pakistan day in day out because that group doesn’t challenge their lies or their claim to speak for Pakistan.   We do.   Pakistan Zindabad. From rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 19:26:25 2009 From: rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com (Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 19:26:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 16 In-Reply-To: References: <2A234EEA-7CD6-4276-8C4F-CAAA491929BD@sarai.net> <65be9bf40908171207t10a1c0b0w1aa59cd0497a41b4@mail.gmail.com> <4B7A45AC-2476-4960-9116-DB2504F8A945@sarai.net> <65be9bf40908180208i4d62fb26r5e97f5b0afa4f5bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7271ec560908180656u7ed9cba4k48e50b90bedf08f@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh, and "all", it is very unfair to be so judgemental about the whole episode, and we discuss and exchange thoughts and in the process if the others are not keen on such issues or may not join issues, it is not always correct to say that they are not interested, when Taha posts his research on ids and the corollaries of the views, it is creation of awareness that matters, nothing personal, some appreciate the efforts, some respond, many will not, but all are keen to know the breeze of change for better or worse, so let us not be in haste to judge. Yes, at times, I felt, our "discussions" could have been our chats, not to clutter list, which I feel is reasonable. Regards, Rajen. On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 4:14 PM, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > Dear all > > From now on, I would not be posting any RTF articles anymore on this site. > My blog is: > > raahein.wordpress.com > > Anybody who wishes to read those articles is free to do so. Hope the > members > are happy. > > Also, I wish to unsubscribe from the forum. I can't be a part of a forum > where even the moderator simply goes along with views to stop posting. It > seems members of the forum do me or others a favor by reading articles and > even a greater favor by commenting on them (particularly on issues which I > feel should bother us), as if we are sending papers to them and they have > to > decide if it is research level stuff or not. > > Thanks to those who read my posts and commented and sorry to those whom I > may have hurt any day during posting such articles or mails, including this > one. Shuddha, Taha and rest (including Rajen ji), I will miss you. > > Regards > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Rajen. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Aug 18 19:29:32 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:59:32 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Jaswant=92s_Jinnah_-_Karan_Thapar?= In-Reply-To: <771779.61657.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <771779.61657.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40908180659v5ea5f915i8bdf3fdc9160113d@mail.gmail.com> Dear Kshmendra, Many thanks for posting Karan Thapar's write-up on, Jaswant Singh's book on Jinnah, in HT. I wonder why now, particularly after its defeat that we are witnessing a subtle change in BJP's view towards Muslims? Jinnah who is decried by someone like Rafiq Zakaria as a 'villain' in his passionately argued book, 'The man who divided India' is now seen by the members of the Hindu right in India as a 'nationalist'. I am extremely curious to know about the psychology of this volte face. Warm regards Taha From asad_abbasi at hotmail.com Tue Aug 18 19:39:18 2009 From: asad_abbasi at hotmail.com (asad abbasi) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:09:18 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Minar-e- Poverty Message-ID: Dear All, Minar e Pakistan, is situated in Lahore. It signifies the importance of the place used to show faith in the idea of Pakistan in 1940. It was used as a platform to express something that mattered most then. Ironically, rather sadly, it is still being used to express one's feeling. Concurring, KITNA BADAL GAYA INSAAN. But we have to question, is this change evolutionary or a self created Frankenstein? And as many believe it is self created than, Where did it all go wrong? Is terrorism main cause of Poverty or is it Islamic Fundamentalism? Regards, Asad http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/Opinions/Editorials/17-Aug-2009/Povertys-fallout Poverty's falloutTHE Minar-e-Pakistan in Lahore's Badami Bagh, not many would know, is a favourite spot for suicides. So much so that the authorities had to close it to the public for a while. Poverty seems to be a recurring issue behind these suicides. As was witnessed several days ago when a man jumped to his death from the monument after shouting, "long live Pakistan, down with poverty". He was holding the national flag in his hands at the time. Other lamentations of poverty there might be, like the mother who deserted her three daughters in a market in Gujranwala the other day but the incidents at the Minar are most ominous. The tower was erected in commemoration of the day a political party demanded, on behalf of the Muslims of India, an independent homeland where they could live their lives according to their own hopes and aspirations. They wanted, in other words, freedom. But what is this elusive term called freedom? What exactly does it mean? The great Indian economist Amartya Sen famously gave - or should we say, made popular - the concept of development as freedom. That the shackles of poverty can be fetters as cruel as the authoritarian control of a dictatorial government. It turns out Pakistan has not fared well on freedoms, economic or political. We have replaced colonial masters and circumvented the prospect of Hindu domination only to replace it with the domination of undemocratic forces right here. But in the struggle for political freedom, we should not forget that freedom is not be limited to the polls and that of worship but should also entail one's right to a decent and respectable life. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Messenger: Happy 10-Year Anniversary—get free winks and emoticons. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/ From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 18 19:53:45 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 07:23:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Sam Miller on Sarai In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <982956.44610.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Sam   Examples of "Bigotry" (intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own) are to be found in every society in any country. It is not "Religious Bigotry" alone but also "Intellectual Bigotry", "Political Bigotry", "Academic Bigotry"........   I think it is important that "Bigotry" be expressed through words where it can be countered and/or argued with and against. Better that than 'bigoted actions' through violence or exclusions.   Through such interactions there could be some success towards (what you would like emphasised) "finding and investigating common ground...... collaboration".   It does need some sacrificing of ego so that one can not only recognise "the other person's bigotry" but "one's own bigotry" too.    Incidentally, SARAI-Reader List has much more to it than just being "platform for bigotry and curse-swapping" & "willy waving"   Kshmendra   PS.  'mmm' In 'netspeake'  has many connotations, none of which, I am sure, were intended. Perhaps you meant 'hmmnnn' --- On Tue, 8/18/09, sam miller wrote: From: sam miller Subject: RE: [Reader-list] Sam Miller on Sarai To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com, reader-list at sarai.net Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 11:08 AM #yiv173358351 .hmmessage P { margin:0px;padding:0px;} #yiv173358351 { font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} mmm, Kshmendra - I've changed my mind since then, and Sarai has certainly changed. It has sadly become a platform for bigotry and curse-swapping.   I'd now quite like to see a bit more post-modern jargon, and a lot less willy-waving.   And yes - I strongly agree with the note Monica just sent - surely there has to be a greater emphasis on finding and investigating common ground, and, I would add, on collaboration.     Sam      > Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 02:26:02 -0700 > From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com > To: reader-list at sarai.net > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Sam Miller on Sarai > >   > "Many of these discussions are suffused with post-modern jargon, but usually they are worth the effort." > > > --- On Mon, 8/10/09, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote: > > > From: Naeem Mohaiemen > Subject: [Reader-list] Sam Miller on Sarai > To: "sarai list" > Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 9:18 PM > > > On Sarai, excerpt from Sam Miller's book... > > In the basement of a modern building at the foot of the Ridge, ten > minutes from the site of Ludlow Castle, are the offices of an > organisation that calls itself ‘Sarai’. Anyone who asks the simple > question ‘What is Sarai?’ may not get such a simple answer. It is a > place, but it also an idea. Sarai is Delhi at its most modern, its > most virtual. It exists in a series of rooms in Civil Lines, but it > also orbits in cyber-space.  According to its own publicity > literature, Sarai ‘encompasses an inter-disciplinary research > programme, a platform for critical reflection, a screening space, a > convivial context for online and offline conversations and a media > lab’. I have known about Sarai for several years, as an unashamed > lurker on its e-mail groups – receiving regular updates on a eclectic > range of subjects, often about Delhi, ranging from ‘the Culture of > Telephone Booths’, through ‘Society and the Soap Factory to ‘Locating > Sexuality through the eyes of Afghan and Burmese Refugee Women in > Delhi’. Many of these discussions are suffused with post-modern > jargon, but usually they are worth the effort. > > Sarai – the non-virtual part of it – consists of three rooms: a > private inner sanctum where individuals have their own workstations; a > glass-walled public access computer area (the media lab), and a large > meeting room with a café. No-one looked up when I walked in and sat > down, eavesdropping. There was a three-way discussion about French > philosophers (Foucault and de Certeau), a young man was retying his > pony tail as he watched cricket on a wall-mounted TV (not quakeproof – > a potentially lethal missile, I decided), and a young woman was > sitting at a table staring at her coffee mug as if it were an object > of worship. I interrupted her to ask for help getting access to the > Sarai online archive (I needed to find out more about Ludlow Castle). > She gave me a split-second look of exasperation, before getting to her > feet and handing me over to the resident computer expert. He took me > into the media lab (with only one of the eight computers free), sat me > down in front of a terminal and began logging me in. ‘Username: guest. > Password: guest. You do know Linux and Mozilla Firefox[1], don’t you?’ > ‘Er, yes - a little.’ I was lying. I suppose I was rather proud of > myself for having heard of them, and too embarrassed to admit that I > hadn’t ever used them. I knew that they were the main software > competition to Microsoft, and that they were, in some way that I > didn’t quite understand, alternative, democratic and trendy. He’d put > me on to a local area network where I could now access the archive. I > entered ‘Ludlow Castle Delhi’ in the search box, and the entire screen > went white. So did I. My usual solution, ‘Ctrl-Alt-Del’, had no > effect, I panicked. And looking surreptitiously around, knowing I was > doing something very naughty, I pressed my finger down hard on the > on/off key. With a tell-tale squeak the screen went blank. I looked > around again; no-one was staring with disdain in my direction. I’d > escaped detection, and thirty seconds later I turned the computer on > again, to a profusion of messages about how sinful I’d been to turn it > off improperly. > > [1] Mozilla Firefox – Netscape’s successor and the main rival to > Explorer as an Internet browser. A firefox is a red panda still found > in India. Mozilla is a contraction of Mosaic Killer (Mosaic was the > first widely used Internet browser). Linux is an open-source operating > system, invented by Linus Thorvalds, a rival to MS Windows and Apple’s > Mac OS. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Are you an untamed, bizarre or daring explorer? Find out now! Drag n’ drop From akmalik45 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 18 20:16:25 2009 From: akmalik45 at yahoo.com (A.K. Malik) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 07:46:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 16 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <929586.99344.qm@web39102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Rakeshji, You are a brilliant boy, I never expected defeatism from your end.In spite of differing opinions, I admire you for clarity in your thoughts and would request you not to leave the forum under protest.If there are reasons other than this, I wouldn't comment. With all the best for you, Sincerely yours, (A.K.MALIK) --- On Tue, 8/18/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > From: Rakesh Iyer > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] RTF (Right to Food) Articles - 16 > To: "Taha Mehmood" <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> > Cc: "Sarai Reader-list" , "Jeebesh" > Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 4:14 PM > Dear all > > From now on, I would not be posting any RTF articles > anymore on this site. > My blog is: > > raahein.wordpress.com > > Anybody who wishes to read those articles is free to do so. > Hope the members > are happy. > > Also, I wish to unsubscribe from the forum. I can't be a > part of a forum > where even the moderator simply goes along with views to > stop posting. It > seems members of the forum do me or others a favor by > reading articles and > even a greater favor by commenting on them (particularly on > issues which I > feel should bother us), as if we are sending papers to them > and they have to > decide if it is research level stuff or not. > > Thanks to those who read my posts and commented and sorry > to those whom I > may have hurt any day during posting such articles or > mails, including this > one. Shuddha, Taha and rest (including Rajen ji), I will > miss you. > > Regards > > Rakesh > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 18 20:26:22 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue,